Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell, selected in 1966 after decades of test piloting and MIT research, debunks claims about CIA funding for his ESP experiments—conducted at Stanford with Harold Putoff, Russell Targ, and Uri Geller—and confirms their statistical validity (one-in-3,000 chance). He dismisses Roswell conspiracy theories and lunar "pseudoscience," but links consciousness to quantum physics, proposing a "giant hard disk in the sky" for post-life memory. From space, Earth’s fragility spurred his sustainability advocacy, while Apollo 13’s near-catastrophe underscored the mission’s precision. Mitchell warns unchecked bioengineering risks ethical collapse, urging humanity to align science with cosmic interconnectedness before irreversible consequences. [Automatically generated summary]
Well, I kind of made it my business from 1957 on, after Sputnik went up.
I'd recognized that humans would probably be right behind robot spacecraft, and I wanted to go along, so I started working on it, on my credentials, 1957, even before they were manned flight much more than a dream.
It took me nine years, adding to my test pilot credentials, getting a Ph.D. from MIT, and being involved in space development with the military.
I just kept adding credentials and qualifications and hoping that sooner or later they couldn't ignore me any longer, which turned out to be true, by 1966.
Bearing that in mind, and with a lot of people who've seen 13, the movie, going on 14 must have been a bit of a, even though I'm sure by then you were all locked into it and ready, still in the back of your mind, with Apollo 13 just having occurred, you must have worried that a similar thing could have occurred.
We were careful with regard to that, watched each other pretty cautiously, you know, kept an eye on each other, worked the buddy system, and tried to make sure we didn't fall in anything really sharp.
But it was a remote probability, but it was still there.
If something like that had occurred, would it be automatically fatal, or would there have been time to do a quick patch job, assuming it wasn't a giant tear and something you'd lived through?
We had about five ways to back up the engine ignition and the start sequence.
Fortunately, we didn't have to use any of them, but we had several different backups, the last of which was to run a jumper cable from the descent stage through the hatch into the ascent stage circuit breaker panel.
So we wondered what would happen when that cable went snaking out through the front door as we lifted off, but we never had to use that.
Kind of shaking, rattling, and rolling as the gimbals move the vector around.
And with acceleration, you're getting pushed back in the seat ever more firmly until you reach first stage cutoff of a minute or so, about a minute and 20 seconds into flight.
It's the emergency re-entry that pushes you up to high G loads, potentially up to 16.5 G. We practice that, and it's not a comfortable feeling to practice emergency aborts.
Depends on how you're taking it, transverse G's, through the body, like we were taking it.
You're going to start to black out above 16 if you sustain it too long.
But you can take a jerk or short impulses higher than that.
You may tear a few blood vessels, but you'll survive it.
I don't really know what the absolute limit is.
They tested that out in the White Sands.
Colonel Harold Stapp tested it out in the White Sands back in the 60s with rocket sleds that they brought to a screeching halt up to 20 or 30 cheeses, I recall.
The only big surprise was it was much more difficult to navigate than we thought because it looks like a fairly smooth surface where we landed, relatively smooth.
But it turns out the undulations of the crater impacts are like sand dunes, and they're much higher than you think they are.
So whereas we thought we could navigate across the surface very, very precisely within inches if we wanted to, it turns out you couldn't do that because you lose sight of your landmarks.
Just like walking through the desert with sand dunes, you come over one sand dune and lo and behold, there's another one and you can't quite see what's over the next one.
Would that have blocked your, in other words, with that kind of geography, which is hillier than you thought, would that have blocked your view or did you have a great view to the moon's horizon?
A lot of people thought the early Apollo missions might, you know, when the limb came down, might go sinking into the moon dust and there was going to be a great deal of moon dust there.
Regarding your appearance on Dateline, NBC's Dateline, a few minutes into the interview, if you had missed it, you would have missed the commentator's remark that Dr. Mitchell returned from the moon with a couple of secrets.
So if he's unable or unwilling to corroborate Richard Hoagland's work, and we'll get to that later, I'd like to know if it's true that there are some secrets.
Is there anything, any secret that you learned that you still are unable to discuss?
No, if you recall, back in the early 70s, I did work at Stanford Research Institute with Harold Puttoff, but Russell Targ and Uri Geller and all that.
And I was invited to brief the CIA on our results, which I did.
George Bush was head of the CIA at that time.
And subsequently, a great deal of work was done by CIA on psychic work and very successfully, because the Soviets were doing it at that time as well in the Brezhnev area, very successfully.
And as a matter of fact, much of that work has just been declassified and released to the public within the last few months.
Well, the standard sort of test that had been done in the laboratory by J.B. Ryan and other people for 30 years or more, I just simply conducted it in that environment.
And I can only quote the results statistically because that's the way it was set up.
The probability that chance could have produced our results was one in 3,000.
Planned to do it more than that, but I've had time to do it four different times during my rest period.
It took about seven minutes each time to organize the standard zinner symbols in accordance with random numbers selected from a random number table and copied onto my knee pad.
And I organized the symbols according to random orientation of the numbers, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and then simply thought about each symbol in turn for 15 seconds.
Well, as I tell in my book that's coming out, I had been in discussion with some medical people, as a matter of fact, who were very good scientists and who were frustrated with the establishment's lack of interest in these human capabilities.
And it seemed like too good an opportunity to pass up because no one had ever been able to conduct an experiment over those distances.
Now, it's a simple experiment.
It didn't show a lot because one set of experiments is never enough.
But it was indicative.
And the only problem with it, only problem was that it got broken to the press before we were ready to and before we had chance to analyze the results and do it in a thoroughly scientific, proper way.
One of our persons involved in it, who happened to have been a professional psyche, couldn't contain himself, got too excited, and leaked it to the press.
You, on Dateline, virtually suggested that you think your opinion, it's always safe to say that, is that there was really perhaps a crash in 1947 in Roswell and that it has been covered up.
I lived in Roswell at the time, but I was too young, of course, to know much about that incident, although it was not too far from my parents' ranch.
Interestingly enough, and also, as I point out in my book, Robert Goddard lived right down the road from where I grew up in Roswell.
Walked past his house on the way to school every day.
So the Roswell area is of interest to me.
I remember that incident vaguely, remember the headlines, and didn't think much about it at the time when it was said, well, just a weather bullet.
But the subsequent events and the people who have come forth in later years saying that they were told to keep quiet and that they don't want to keep quiet anymore and the many, many investigations of it suggest that there's really more to it than has been told.
Richard Hoagland claims that there are great glass structures on the moon, And he presents photographs, including one I might add, of you on the moon, in which he claims reflections in your visor are showing things that were in front of you that you have not admitted were there.
Back to Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell in a moment.
All right, back now to Florida.
And my guest, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut.
Doctor, this question does not relate to you because of the nature of your crew on Apollo 14, so don't take it that way.
But one day, if America is to ever, or any nation on this globe, I guess, is ever to launch a spacecraft to elsewhere, truly to elsewhere, beyond our system, in what will be a very long spaceflight, there may have to be generations, literally, of people to accomplish that fact, unless we can start moving a lot faster than light.
Toward that end, I would think that NASA would have, but wouldn't talk about, a great interest in whether it would be possible to procreate in space or the nature of procreation.
And that leads to whether there's ever been sex in space.
And we talked about that one night, and you seem like the person to ask.
Well, we certainly need to consider it because, as you point out, long-distance spaceflight can take years and years.
Even though, by the way, it's a matter of interest, there's a lot of work going on at the moment to modify, learn to modify the basic characteristics of vocal space in order to change the speed of light.
One of the things that Richard Hoagland may not be so far out on and that you may wish to comment on is he talks about a new type of physics that seems to sound a lot like what Tesla worked on, that seems to relate to something you've talked about, the zero-point energy.
If it's the Big Bang or some modification of the Big Bang, then doesn't it follow that if Roswell really occurred, if there really was a crash at Roswell or there have been others or there are others to visit, that any materials gathered would likely, frankly be very much like the materials we have here on earth in other words all well well sure material source from a common the
What really comes out of it is that the Big Bang tells us that all matter is interconnected in some way.
And this comes out of an experiment only 12 years ago called the Aspect Experiment, or more formally Bell's Theorem, which has been tested and proven to be correct, that matter once in connection or correlated with each other remains correlated in some sense.
And I trace this up to being responsible for what we experience as our inner experience.
Non-locality is the correct term.
And we experience our ESP, our intuition, our creativity, as a result of that very fundamental physical relationship that exists in nature.
And it always existed in nature, and it's responsible for us having our inner experience the way we have it.
And this was what got all of this going as far as I'm concerned.
It was the perception in looking at the cosmos, seeing the stars, seeing the galaxies, seeing the galactic clusters, the profusion of billions and billions and billions of stellar objects with this tiny little Earth in the midst of it,
and perceiving that the molecules of my body, of that spacecraft we were in, of each other, of everything around us, were all manufactured in those ancient stars.
And that our story about ourselves from science was incomplete.
And our cosmology about how we came to be from our cultural traditions and our religions was archaic.
That we needed a new story.
And that new story was, what is it that makes us conscious?
Why is it that we're aware of beings like we are?
And the answer to that question is centered around what I have been doing for the last 25 years, trying to find what's going on here.
Our answers are not complete, but I think after 25 years of working at it, we're getting pretty close to a good answer.
And it does involve the zero-point field.
It does involve quantum physics.
It does involve spiritual experience, mystical experience, parapsychological functioning.
All those things have to be satisfactorily answered if we're to know what it is we are.
I think it's absolutely wonderful to know, you first start with the idea, this universe is full of life.
It's full of intelligent life.
The fact that some of it might be a little bit more advanced or happened a little earlier than our civilization seems natural.
If life is throughout the universe, which is quite a different concept than we held 25 or 30 years ago.
But now I think that is the case.
And if the universe is approximately 15 billion years old or so, give or take a few, it would not be strange that maybe a civilization could be a few million or even a billion or so years older than we are.
I think that's probably true, but not nearly like it was 25 years ago.
A recent study done by my own institute demonstrates that has broken the demographics down into three different groups called the traditionalist, the moderns, and the postmoderns.
And the postmoderns, another name for them is called cultural creatives, which is a group like you and I are that are looking for new answers, looking for where the future is, not afraid of these ideas.
That group has changed from 2% to 24% in the last 20 years and is in equal in size in the United States, we're talking about U.S. demographics, equal in size to the traditionalist and the moderns.
Or the moderns would be your corporate people, your materialist scientists, the yuppie group, and so forth.
And the cultural creatives would be the greens, the environmentally sensitive people Looking to the future.
All those groups are now roughly the same size with the cultural creatives increasing and the others decreasing.
I talk a bit about the space experience, of course, how I got into all of that.
But most of the book, and this story of looking at the universe and being awestruck by what I was experiencing, but most of it is the research of the last 25 years going into these various topics,
the mystical experience, the parapsychological experience, studying consciousness, how does it relate to our psychology, to our religion, to our mystical experience, to our science, and giving my thoughts on it and my work of the last 20-some years and coming to a new model called the Dyadic model of how it relates, what does all this mean to us, and where does it seem to be taking us in the future.
And I touch upon the UFO experience a bit, the notion that intelligent life is probably throughout the universe.
And the real question is, have we found each other yet?
All of these items are touched upon, some of them in significant detail, and it's kind of the result of my last 27 years of research.
It's hung upon an autobiographical story, and the people that have read it say, hey, that's a pretty interesting tale you got there, Michael.
If another group of people from elsewhere had been watching us, or if we have been observed, then surely those moments when we left our planet in a significant way beyond low Earth orbit or even geosynchronous orbiting satellites, those moments would have been, I would think, of intense interest to somebody else.
And so obviously the question, did you, en route to the moon or back, see anything at all that was anomalous?
I mean, these stories and rumors have been around for years, but I have had no experience, none on our flight, and to my knowledge, no unexplained experience on any of the flights in this regard.
And yes, in an evolutionary sense, an extraterrestrial intelligence would be very curious about the evolutionary progress that a civilization they discovered had made.
So if we were watching somebody's first steps into space, we'd be intensely curious about it.
I would have thought there would have been at least some private, secret code word or contact or something before you just blurted out a whole thing out publicly.
As you reflect, Doctor, on what it all means or how we came to be, and that's what we're all asking, do you consider that a possibility that life here on Earth was, in effect, jump-started one way or the other, obelisk or otherwise, by folks from elsewhere?
That says, well, maybe they intervened along the way, and that the historical biblical story out of Samaria could very well have been that sort of influence.
I would love to have Sitchin's work either confirmed or denied by additional scholarship because it's intriguing, and he makes a very strong case, and it's interesting stuff.
And it's quite possible.
But I think we probably originated, much like life originated elsewhere, and the model for that is what I give in my new book as to how that could possibly happen.
Well, there is certainly a lot suddenly happening.
Your statements, those that are going to be interestingly made May 7th, which is the date your book is coming out, I know, by Gordon Cooper on Paranormal Borderline.
Apparently some incredible statements coming.
I don't have a full text, but the people that do have told me they're amazing statements.
And a lot of people would say the things you have said, that Gordon Cooper will say and others are all leading up to something, that it's a slow sort of preparation.
That's the way people feel.
And that motion pictures are adding to that, you know, Independence Day coming up, the big movie, the whole thing, that all of this is leading to a sort of crescendo of information when there'll be some big revelation.
Well, that goes to the nature of my question, and that is now we're talking about a space station with the Russians, and I guess the space program has not gone as aggressively as people like yourself, myself might have wished it to.
Where should the space program be going?
If you had your drothers and money wasn't a problem, what would we be doing?
Well, I think we're probably doing a lot of the right things right now.
But in due course, we will do all of these things.
We will go back to the moon.
We will go to Mars.
We will go out through the solar system.
We will even go beyond the solar system in due course, sometime in the next century or so, or beyond.
But right now, I think we need to get our act together here on Earth.
And the space technology is absolutely marvelous for surveying the Earth, seeing how to get ourselves better organized here, get things pulled together.
It's quite apparent when you look at Earth from space that this thin, thin, thin little biosphere that we have is rather in jeopardy.
You know, we spotted the burning forest, the pollution from space.
It's very easy to see.
And it's causing people to be very concerned.
So getting ourselves organized, recognizing who and what we are, what is our place in the cosmos, laying our plans for the future, it's an appropriate thing to do now.
We've only been in space about 30-some years, and that's just nothing.
And we're just really starting to understand what this environment's all about.
It certainly causes you to become far, to ask questions in a different way.
And most of the people who have been in space, I would say, are now, if not ardent environmentalists, certainly very sensitive to environmental issues.
I think the NASA program itself in the early days, we had very high family problems just because of the intensity, the dedication.
This idea of going to the moon back in the 60s was so exciting and people were so dedicated that the men and women, mostly men in those days, focused on their jobs and families came second.
And that's just not the way you keep a family together.
And as a result, we had our casualties.
And I think the timber of the times, as we see in American society in general at these times, that we're undergoing a transition.
And it has Been very difficult on the families themselves.
But it's just a part of the times, I believe, and the intensity of this very marvelous program we were a part of.
I want to dispel another rumor, or it's actually more than that, flying around on the internet, this great new information resource we have, there are all these texts, there are a lot of texts of supposed astronaut communications intercepted by amateur radio operators during blackout times about things they saw, most amazing things.
Well, without analyzing them individually, I can't say they're all baloney, but by and large, I would say in a general statement, yeah, they're all baloney.
Some of them have, perhaps a little more guardedly.
I've kind of made it my business for the last quite a few years to look very carefully, very critically at many of these frontier concepts to see what validity they had.
And we're finding many of them have a certain amount of validity.
And as they have validity, you start to find ways to bring them into the body of our knowledge.
And when you're a pioneer in that way, as I try to be, yes, you invite criticism, you invite the wise nods and the shaking of heads and so forth.
But that just goes with the territory of being an explorer.
I can't give you the exact quote, but he went to the White House, I'm sure you've heard it, and said that there are places to go and things to see that will boggle your mind or something very close to that.
Well, you have had the ultimate physical experience, the science experience of going to the moon.
Do you think the ultimate answers that man seeks are going to be found in the hard sciences, or do you think that we will have to turn inward to find those answers?
Here's something that I would like to ask you about.
Maybe you can answer it in a way I haven't been able to, but those of religious faith, deep religious faith, many of them view discussion of UFOs, discussion of people or others that may be out there as of the devil.
Well, this was, I grew up in a fundamentalist tradition.
I tell the story in my book about my mother who was healed amazingly in one of these powerful things, healing moments, very much the way Jesus is supposed to have healed people.
Only the interesting part was this fellow was a Buddhist shaman, and he did a pretty marvelous job of healing my mother.
She wore thick, by the time this happened, she wore very thick Coke bottle glasses and was legally blind without them.
And she was healed and could see, broke, interesting story, dropped her glasses on the floor, ground them under her shoe, and said, son, praise the Lord, I can see.
She called me a week later and said, son, was this man a Christian?
And I said, oh, Jesus, no, mother.
I'm sorry, he wasn't.
The next day, she had to put her glasses back.
I had to go get new glasses.
Her belief system was so strong that since she couldn't accept a Buddhist shaman healing her, she rejected the healing.
Now, interestingly enough, 10 years later when she passed away, she still hadn't had an operation because it was pretty risky back in those days.
But she never went blind.
Her eyesight improved over the years, the 10 years remaining to her, so that by the time she passed away, she wasn't, her glasses were a far weaker prescription than when this incident occurred.
Last night, scientists, it says, are now calculating that asteroid 433, known as Eros, will wander into Earth's orbit.
Now, it's not a minor little asteroid.
It is the size of Manhattan.
Scientists are saying eventually a collision with Earth is likely, maybe not for a million years, that's a long time, but they calculate it will probably occur.
Now, of course, that's far larger than the one that supposedly took out the dinosaurs.
And you see, this illustrates what I'm talking about in our evolutionary path.
We are indeed, these events can come under our conscious control.
By the time that might happen, see, it's not, they say the probability is very, very low in the next 10,000 years, virtually zero.
And within 10,000 years, we certainly would have the technology to divert an object like that with perhaps nuclear power or some such technology that we could invent by the time that happens.
So that illustrates the fact we could bring this sort of natural disaster within our ability to pervert it or change it.
We may not be able to get to earthquakes by that time, but again, we might.
But certainly it's feasible that we could divert an asteroid that was going to collide with it.
Well, yes, I have, and I described part of this in the book.
I don't know that geologic events are accelerating, but certainly, well, in the sense that weather events, if they're influenced by the ozone layer, if they're influenced by the global warming, the greenhouse effect, those can be traced to human activity.
And if we can trace it to human activity, then yes, it's accelerating because every measure of human activity has a period of doubling now that is less than a human lifetime.
And it's the first time that's happened in all human history.
So it's bringing, it's what I'm saying, it's bringing all of these events are coming under human control.
And it's because we're so numerous, our technology is so powerful, and it requires us now to rethink this whole issue of who are we, how did we get here, what's our future, where are we going, why, and how.
Well, whether you believe in a creator or you believe that our Earth is reacting to what is being done to it, there are a lot of people who believe, and I may be one of them, that the Earth is, in fact, in some way, maybe perhaps just some natural way, reacting to our presence or the changes we're bringing to Earth.
And that's exactly the sort of model I describe in my book, that this is an interactive, self-organizing system that we're talking about.
And you push on it here, and the effect comes out over there in ways we don't really quite understand yet.
And that's precisely what we must do, is to take responsibility for and understand the consequences of our behaviors because we're doing some things that are quite reminiscent of the lemmings rushing toward the sea.
The question here is not are the measurements accurate.
The question is the meaning and the interpretation.
And the evidence continues to mount that these are indeed man-made events and that they're having a deleterious effect upon our whole ecological system.
It's affecting the food chain.
The measurements are showing that it's affecting the food chain, clear down the level of the newts, the frogs, the life cycle of fishes, and so forth, which eventually works its way up to affect us.
So we should be watching these indicator species, these...
As we take down the forest, the rainforest, and as we venture into places we've never been before, we seem to be getting more Ebolas, more mad cow diseases, more viruses that we can't explain and can't deal with.
Nature has a way, and I think my model that I present in this book goes a long way toward helping us understand how this takes place.
Essentially, nature is an evolving, intelligent organism.
We don't think of it as an organism due to our scientific history.
We think of it as inanimate particles.
But the Lovelock Gaia hypothesis that everything is interconnected and interrelated, more like an organism, is probably a more productive way of thinking about nature.
It's very close to the Native American model and virtually all of the early models.
And I think we will find it very productive if we continue to develop that model of the interconnectedness of things and how everything relates to each other.
And the fact that these effects take place is hardly disputable.
It is the meaning or the interpretation that is in question here.
A lot of the film and video that was taken on the moon, a lot of the film and video that's been taken in space for that matter, never seems, according to my faxer from Memphis, to show stars.
And people have always wondered why.
It shows the blackness of space, but you never see the stars.
Sure, that's because if you squeeze the shutter down in order so that you get some definition of the thing you're looking at, you have excluded the starlight, which is much fainter.
But if you were to focus away from the sun and away from reflective light, open the shutter up, you won't see the stars.
If you look through our lunar surface telescope from the lunar module, you saw stars very nicely.
But on the lunar surface, if you look out, you should see stars, but the reflective light is bright enough that your eye shutter squeezes down, your eyeball squeezes down.
You don't see them unless you're very well shielded.
And certainly on your camera, if you're going to catch the definition on the surface, you've got to close the shutter and you exclude the stars.
You know, we did a wonderful experiment coming back from the MOOC in which we put eye shades on, darkened the cabin, and then looked.
And sure enough, we got meteor trails flashing across the eyeball, which were gamma rays, tiny little energetic solar particles flashing across the tissue of the eye.
Oh, my.
Just like a meteor flashes across the sky.
And the optic nerve is sensitive enough to pick up that single photon.
That was all part of the computation of how thick the spacecraft was and so forth.
And sure, during periods of high solar sunspot activity, we shouldn't be in space, not because of meteor particles, but because of high energy that could penetrate and damage our bodies.
And there's always a possibility that a high-velocity particle could fracture a spacecraft cabinet.
It did cause a few difficulties in keeping this within the scientific genre instead of a sensational genre.
But we did publish, you know, Dr. Ryan published the results, and everything works out the way it's supposed to, so I can't be too frustrated with all of them that regard.
But it would have been helpful if we'd announced it in a little more measured way.
Because it did indeed show us that what we were experiencing works exactly the same way in space as it does here.
And subsequent experiments in the laboratory have shown us that we don't have an inverse squared effect like we do with other electromagnetic effects, that it is truly a non-local effect we're dealing with.
The question I have for you is you speak a lot about spirituality, and you speak about that people will not be so paranoid in the future with what they find out from what you believe we will find out.
Do you see, are you, do you have a religious feeling?
I mean, do you believe that there is a higher being controlling us?
I approach this from the point of view of energy and information, that it's a very natural thing that's taking place, that the information representing human life, or the experiences of human life, are indeed recorded, are indeed preserved is a better word.
I call it the giant hard disk in the sky facetiously.
And we now have a quantum mechanical mechanism which we're writing about and studying right now as to how that takes place.
We have a pretty good handle, a pretty good theory on what's happening here.
Doctor, I've always personally explained it by just believing that creation, however it occurred, and a creator not necessarily at all mutually exclusive.
Anyway, I don't really have a question per se other than just a little personal experience that I had.
As far as Dr. Mitchell, when you talk about the experience of the oneness and whatnot, back in 1988, I was standing on the shore of Jackson Lake, Grand Teton Lodge, Grand Teton Park.
And it was a perfectly smooth lake on a cloudless, beautiful night.
And I was standing there.
The whole lake was like a mirror.
And all of a sudden, it's really hard to explain.
It's like you say, but if you do experience it, you'll never forget it.
The experience is sometimes ineffable, but once you have experienced it, you never forget it, and it's very hard sometimes to explain to someone else unless they've had the same experience.
Then you don't need to explain it to them.
unidentified
Yeah, about the only thing I can say is that about the closest I could come to it is like it was almost like every single cell in my brain just all of a sudden at once understood the whole thing.
The classical mystical experience is described in the literature as samadhi.
This comes out of the Sanskrit, the ancient language of mysticism.
And I describe this in the book as when the entire brain body is in resonance with the zero-point field.
And it provides a sense of ecstasy, a sense of connectedness, a sense of this ineffable experience that you're trying to describe, and which I try to describe equally ineffectively.
But there is apparently now a physical explanation for this.
And we must ask ourselves, why did nature provide these feelings at all?
And of course, I go into that one in the book, too.
This is a way to look at it, is that the sum total of our experiences can be called information.
Everything before now is just the information about what we've experienced.
In other words, your life is information that you remember.
In other words, everything in your mind right now is just a memory from the past.
So, if we say that that memory, that information, is coherent, that there is a way that it is preserved, that is about as good a scientific description of the soul as one can come up with.
And we now have a mechanism for how that is preserved and carried forward.
That's what I'm working on at the moment.
And it's a testable hypothesis.
Science is going to be able to deal with this very, very short.
Well, I kind of question that, and this is a central point, so you can't be too adamant about it.
But it's the fact that the inner experience of a silicon chip is probably quite different than the inner experience of a carbon-based brain.
So it's not likely that we will have androids that are very good humans.
It is because of this subtle difference in non-locality or inner experience, which goes to our intuition, our ESP, et cetera, et cetera.
All of which we humans experience because of the particular nature of our carbon-based mind-brain, spirit, if you will, which is somewhat different than a silicon entity.
Awareness, and this is what I describe in my book, that awareness is a fundamental attribute of nature, of the matter in nature.
That if you start to examine awareness closely, as we in science used to think, that it is a product of our evolved energetic molecules, it turns out you just can't get there from here.
That awareness has to be indigenous to nature itself.
Now, our mentality, our ability to think, to reason, to reflect, to be self-aware, yeah, that's probably due to our evolutionary path.
So go get some tea, and we'll hold you another hour.
My guest is Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell.
This is a priceless opportunity, and we will lay more heavily on the phones in this final hour.
He has written a book.
It's called The Way of the Explorer.
That's a good title, isn't it?
The Way of the Explorer.
Or otherwise, to go where no man has gone before.
Anyway, if you would like an autographed copy of his book, it really is a rare opportunity, an autographed copy of his book, dedicated to, I guess, supply the verbiage you would like, he's willing to do that.
He's going to be signing a lot of books.
To get it, you send $35 to Post Office Box 67286728.
Lake Worth.
That's two words.
Lake, as in that which holds all that water.
And Worth, as in Fort Worth, Texas, but not Texas.
So Lake Worth, Florida.
Zip code 33461.
Let me get that to you again.
I know a lot of you are rushing for pens.
This would be a priceless opportunity and probably one-time chance to get an autographed copy like this.
The Way of the Explorer.
It is $35.
It will be less in the stores, but of course you will not have a personally autographed version, and that's something to have as a keepsake.
Post Office Box 6728, Lake Worth, Florida.
33-461.
And I would like to thank you all for participating.
If you would like to either speak with Dr. Mitchell or you're welcome to send a fax with a question.
Let me give you my fax number.
Here in Nevada, it is Area Code 702-727-8499.
Now, I ask that you hold it to three pages, please.
No more than that.
I prefer one page, if you can do that.
A faxed question at Area Code 702-727-8499.
And so there you have it.
an evening with somebody who's been to the moon.
It's always been a dream of mine to be able to ask these kinds of questions to somebody who's done something that I...
In fact, that is a good question, I suppose, when we come back here in a moment, to ask whether any of us may have an opportunity to go.
You never know.
I never thought that I would get to fly at Mach 2 Plus, but I did.
I got to go to Paris in the Concorde, so who knows?
Maybe an opportunity will present itself, and I will get to go to the moon yet.
Just that I'm not betting on it.
So when we've got somebody here who's actually been, it is indeed a priceless opportunity.
More of it coming up in a moment from the high desert.
You're listening to the American CBC Radio Network.
We have done a number of programs on something called HAARP.
I bet you're familiar with HAARP.
It's up in Alaska, and it is ostensibly a project to heat the ionosphere, in effect, boring a hole through the ionosphere, in order to study radio or improve radio propagation, ostensibly, or to look for caverns or bunkers beneath the Earth.
In other words, to geographically map what's below the surface of the Earth.
There are a lot of people concerned about HARP.
Dr. Nick Begich in Alaska wrote a book called Angels Don't Play This Harp.
Do you know anything about the angelic nature or lack of it of harp?
On the lunar surface, it was the difficulty of our navigation on a presumably relatively flat surface, finding out it wasn't so flat after all.
And in general, it was this perception of Earth from space, which was overwhelming to many of us, of seeing this awesome planet we call Earth and getting this new perspective that we're talking about, the epiphany, the insight, the wow, the aha.
Yeah, name's Andy, and I just wanted to know how the doctor felt about or if he was familiar with Dr. Robert Monroe's work about very well when he was alive, yes.
Oh, really?
Really?
Astounding books, out-of-body experience and far journey.
And I just wanted to get your feelings on his discoveries, on his out-of-body, you know, his interdimensional travels.
Well, the way I explain it in my book, and I go into this also, that you tie it together with the remote viewing experiences, and it's merely a matter of detail and specificity.
And again, the inner experience from the detail of Bob and Rowe's work, the so-called out-of-body or astral projection, gives the experience of being there.
But we can't find anything that goes anywhere.
What you're doing is bringing, apparently, bringing the information here.
In other words, information is everywhere, and you're simply focusing it from a point of view.
So nothing has to go anywhere in order to perceive that information.
Another way of looking at it is that we're here and everywhere simultaneously.
But that seems to be the best description in that it is simply a transformation of the viewpoint of information that exists, and information apparently exists everywhere simultaneously.
I had the honor of interviewing Dr. Monroe before he died.
And I found his information to be absolutely captivating.
Do you believe that I or that any or that a human being sufficiently trained and disciplined could take roughly the same trip you took without all the expense?
Part of the work we did in the laboratory was with several psychics.
Ingo Swan, a very noted one, was able to do this and to bring back information from some of the larger and outer planets that was only verified later by NASA flyby.
So some of the work in remote viewing precisely gathers that sort of information.
Now, it turns out that the detail can be quite good.
It can also be misleading sometimes because we do filter that through our own brain body, our own information mechanism.
But with good training and putting aside biases, quite often the information is startlingly accurate.
Well, we found rocks, and we found that they are, of course, the same minerals that we find on Earth, because the periodic table of elements is the same everywhere in the universe.
But the combinations and the processes that form the rocks are clearly quite different, which is what we set out to discover.
What are the processes on the moon that are different than the processes on Earth?
And by and large, they're described by the lack of the lighter elements like oxygen, hydrogen, all of which boiled off very early in the lunar process because of the reduced gravity, the smaller size.
I haven't read the most recent literature, but they were formed at about the same time, early in the process, and apparently from the same giant mix, but were, I'm maybe a little tentative here, I believe that they have had a long, long history of separate as being independent entities, but they have been, may have been in conjunction at one time.
There was one theory, and I'm a little confused here because I haven't studied it in quite a number of years.
There was one theory that the great part of the Pacific Ocean is a place where, like Siamese twins, they were separated at one point.
I'm not sure whether that theory has held up or not.
And I'll have to beg off without reading the most recent literature.
Dr. Mitchell, in the course of the interview there, well, the zero point, well, Mr. Hoagland referred to it as the hyperdimensional physics, et cetera, is that I have,
well, knowing a member of the space program for many years now, not going in great detail, is that the spiritual, to be quite honest here, if you gentlemen would like to expound, especially yourself,
Dr. Mitchell, Mr. Bell, you're quite up there as well, is that what I have been somewhat educated to is the spiritual, the truly the spiritual endeavor is something that we are truly expounding upon here.
And the scientific is truly just say just a, well, a tad of a notch below that, in a way, so to speak.
I'm not sure that I fully understand the nature of that question, but I think he's saying, do you hold the spiritual above the scientific in terms of eventual answers?
How worried was NASA that you might bring Were they concerned that you might bring back a little bug or a virus or something that you would step on and cling to you on the moon?
And got bumped from the flight because of it, which, as it turned out, Ken helped get them back.
So, as Jim Lovell says, blessings come in disguises.
But we were pre-flight quarantined to prevent disease from getting into space, and we were post-flight quarantined to keep space disease from getting here.
When Alan Shepard came on the crew, we were slated to replace Gordon Cooper.
We were slated to do the Apollo 13 flight.
And NASA headquarters suggested that since Alan had not been in training for some time, he ought to take a little more time to train and negotiated a crew switch with Jim Lovell's crew, which was then Apollo 14.
Well, I was doing exactly, if you saw Apollo 13, I was doing exactly in the lunar module what Ken Manningly was doing in the command module.
Learning how to fly that beast as a lifeboat, low power, no power, manually.
It's kind of like learning to take your sailboat on the open seas, or let's say your dinghy on the open seas, and turn it into a lifeboat to bring the major craft home.
Doctor, my one, a little earlier we talked about whether I would ever have a chance to fly as you flew or in any other way.
I had one great experience, Doctor, and that was I flew in the Concorde from this country to Paris.
Oh, man.
At Mach 2 Plus, and they let me go up into the cockpit at Mach 2, and it was all very exciting.
And I remember putting my hand on the window when we were doing about Mach 2, and this thing was roaring along, and the window was so hot you couldn't hold your hand on it.
When you leave the Earth, Doctor, and you leave the Earth's gravitational effect and you're suddenly weightless, can you explain to people who have probably always wondered what that feels like?
The best simulation of it is underwater if you're a scuba diver.
Go underwater, ballast, weightless.
Close your eyes so you don't see which way the bubbles go and remain motionless.
That's the way it feels.
Or if you happen to be a pilot, you can go up and do a ballistic trajectory and kind of float like a rock floating through the sky, and you'll get the same feeling.
Well, we conditioned because some folks had had inner ear vertigo disorientation.
We went up and practiced in our T-38 trainers doing all sorts of aerobatic maneuvers to push ourselves right to the verge of sickness and vertigo and train the inner ear so that we could control it.
Yes, but at that moment, when you were all up in that capsule up on top of that great big potential bomb, there must have been a moment just before launch when you all looked at each other, busy as you must have been, we sort of looked at each other and said, okay, guys, here we go.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Edgar Mitchell.
Hi.
unidentified
Yes, good morning, Edgar.
I'm a retired Air Force officer who had the occasion about 20 years ago to invite Buzz Aldrin up to Nellis Air Force Base for an award ceremony and hosted him for a couple of days.
So I consequently got to talk to him at length.
Meanwhile, he was open to talking about his problems with pictures.
Now, not everyone is able to exercise it as effectively as this gentleman can.
It probably has a genetic component that allows us to manifest it, but it's really more the neural connections in the brain.
We're now very convinced, and as a matter of fact, this is part of what we're trying to make some visuals with the North Tower Film Group on these areas.
We're now quite convinced that we can train people to do all of these things, particularly if we begin prenatally.
The brain is like any muscle in the sense that its capabilities, you either use them or lose them.
And it's amazing the number of capabilities that we have as very, very young children, that because we don't exercise them or they are negated by doubting parents, those neurological connections then are pruned off.
Nature does that.
You either use them or lose them.
But it turns out you can get them back, some of them, with arduous work much later in life.
So they're not lost forever.
But we all seem to have these rather amazing capabilities.
I call them creative capabilities.
It goes to the whole area of healing, psychokinetic stuff, the things that Uri Galler does, the healers that I worked with, the gentleman that's our caller.
Everybody has these capabilities latent.
And I'm convinced that they're emerging.
We will learn to use them better.
They're a part of our right-left brain complex that we can very quickly learn to use better if we put our effort to it.
And quite often someone else can help us get out of the way.
So we've got to get our mind out of the way.
I think the actual energy itself is the basic energy comes from within the body.
And that repository, the source of that energy is the zero-point field.
I think that more than likely, and this is speculative stuff, that probably the people that use acupuncture, the ancient Orientals that learned acupuncture, that the little acupuncture needles are probably the mechanism for accessing the zero-point field.
Me and a friend of mine discussed something about actual artificial intelligence.
I'd like to know if the government or he or a group of his comrades have been working on anything like this, artificial intelligence in the form like a cyborg or a robot?
That brings me to a very important point, whether it's the HAARP project that I touched on a little while ago, or it's scientists doing medical experimentation.
For example, and I certainly don't necessarily object to it, but there was an experiment in San Francisco in which they attempted to inject a baboon's immune system into a human being who had AIDS and virtually destroyed his immune system and tried to substitute a baboon's.
And the scientists, after they announced it, doctor, said, well, yes, there is some danger to humankind that some virus that was from the baboon may be introduced to human beings in this way.
Some danger, but they went ahead and did it and sort of told us about it afterwards.
So we are getting ahead of things in a lot of cases.
Scientists are into areas where, to me, it's a little worrisome.
Do you think that the race between technology and our ability to control it morally or ethically is going to be lost, or are we going to catch up to it and say to ourselves, now wait a minute.