Art Bell

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Oct. 29, 1997 - Art Bell

03:07:44

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Brad Steiger - Ghosts

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55:49

brad steiger

01:34:47

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, and you're listening to AM 1500 KSTP.
unidentified		AM 1500 KSTP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, as the case may be across all these many prolific time zones stretching from the Hawaiian and Tahitian Island chains all the way eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to Santa Country at the Pole.
		This is Coast Coast A.M. I'm Mark Bell and oh yes, worldwide on the internet.
		Forgot that.
		You're in for a treat tonight as we enter the zone of Halloween.
		My guest is going to be Brad Steiger, author of The Awful Thing in the Attic, along with many, many other books.
		As a matter of fact, probably nigh on to about 130 some odd books by now.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He writes books by the week, almost.
		Brad Steiger coming up, and we'll kind of warm you up for Halloween.
		Tomorrow night, we do the annual Ghost to Ghost Show.
		And that is the show in which you have an opportunity to tell the most horrific, horrible ghost stories that really occurred to you or someone close to you.
		And as we learn every year, there are so many of those that it generally is not possible to capture them adequately in one night.
		In fact, we may even take part of 2 and 2 Friday night, Saturday morning as well.
		At least some portion of that.
		It is very chilling because, like the ones you may hear tonight from Brad, these ghost stories are real.
		You know, this is not sort of sit around the campfire and just make stuff up.
		These are real ghost stories because ghosts are real.
		Anyway, Brad Steiger coming up, and we'll kick it all off here in a bit.
		I will read to you what's on the back of the awful thing in the attic.
		Brad Steiger is the author of more than 100 books, if that's true, on the strange and unknown.
		Here, referring to this book, he draws upon his 40 years as a psychic researcher to select the eeriest, spookiest, scariest, true stories.
		Underline true.
		It comes, of course, from his own investigations and from his extensive files of the paranormal and the mysterious.
		Of course, people send him things.
		Steiger and his wife, Sherry, live in Forest City, Iowa, the heart of America with cats, ghosts, and Scandinavian pixies.
		Brad Seiger, hello.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Arthur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great to have you back.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, great to be back with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the right time of year for Stiger.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really love Halloween.
		Brad, I don't know why, but yes, I do.
		I guess I love to be scared.
		Yes.
		Why do people like to be scared, Brad?
		Any thoughts on that?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on that.
		I think it's an affirmation that they are alive.
		We are alive.
		If you're scared, if you're fearing it.
		And the thing with ghost stories is no matter how eerie and spooky they may be, they are an indicator that life goes on beyond the grave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		And that is, I guess, one of the two great questions that we could have answered in our lifetimes.
		We may never have it answered, but you're right.
		It's the great question, and it is an affirmation that there would be some sort of existence after death, even if possibly not such a pleasant one in some cases.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I think, again, I've just had a real education as I've traveled around investigating from coast to coast and overseas as well.
		I began pretty solidly intellectual about the approach to the unknown.
		I really felt that so much of it was people's misinterpretations, their own deceptions, misinterpretations of the hot water pipes bumping and thumping.
		And certainly there could not be such a thing as an actual spirit that hung on.
		And of course, I came also, you have to remember, I came from an evangelistic Christian background in which these sort of things were anathema as well.
		So once I had expanded from that base, I still kept a very, very solid approach to it, except I had to balance it with my own experiences growing up in a haunted house.
		Our farm was originally a stagecoach stop.
		So again, all sorts of drama had gone on there, I suppose.
		And the sounds that we would hear in the middle of the night, and it seemed primarily my mother, my sister, and myself would be up in the middle of the night, you know, what was that?
		Did you hear that?
		Doors opening and closing, footsteps walking around, and strange sounds outside.
		My dad was the kind of person that if you couldn't see it, teach it, or touch it, it didn't exist.
		He was also a very strongly orthodox religious man.
		But he never laughed.
		He never made fun because he knew that we were genuinely experiencing something.
		And I think he just could not have seen when the salt shakers lifted and the Taurus closed.
		I think he chose not to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of that was really going on?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Salt shakers lifting.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I think he chose not to, Art, because people can do that.
unidentified		Oh, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		They can sort of blank it out.
		If it absolutely violates their belief system, they can blank it out?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		The telephone receiver, you know, lifting off the hook and dropping out in front of everybody when no one's near it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Footsteps thumping and bumping, the doors slamming shut.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And again, these types of things, and then my mother's own paranormal abilities, I guess I had a balance there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wasn't all of this a bit much for your dad?
unidentified		He somehow, he was just most wonderful.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Sherry said he was as close to a saint as anyone she has met.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		He somehow dealt with it all in terms of his conventional and orthodox religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I didn't know that your mom had paranormal abilities or psychic abilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What exactly can you tell me about her?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have been linked up ever since I was a child.
		We have a strong telepathic connection.
		But as a child, I remember she was very mediumistic.
		It began for her when she was just a little girl, and an angel appeared before her older sister and herself.
		And the entity was solid enough art that it left imprints of its sandals in the gravel road, the country home where they lived.
		Now, my mother's older sister is as strongly a rational, objective person who has ever walked the earth.
		There is also, I suppose, a slight competitive edge between sisters.
		So again, my aunt would not, and to this day, she substantiates what they saw.
		She simply would not if she had not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does a person substanti, how do you say it was an angel?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's their interpretation.
		The entity was dressed in a robe.
		It was glowing.
		It walked down the lane of their neighbor, or seemed to walk.
		And next thing they saw was the shadowy form of their neighbor walking with the angel.
		And the man died that night.
		So what they, in essence, saw was an angel of death coming to take a soul home.
		So she had a number of experiences like that as a child, and then I remember when she was a child, and when I was a child, I remember her when the little lady would come and talk to her at night, then she would be able to tell dad, you better get the crop in, you better do this because a storm is coming, whatever.
		And it was always the lady who told her.
		So I recognized that that was, in essence, like a spirit guide.
		And in that same home, every night when I was a child, nearly every night, from the closet would issue a very stern-looking man and woman who would come, stand at my bedside, look down at me.
		I'd pull the covers and I'd peek.
		They'd still be there.
		I'd pull the covers, peek, they'd still be there.
		They never smiled at me, but yet I never felt they're going to harm me.
		And you know, it wasn't until I was an adult when I saw pictures in the family book that they would have been my great-grandparents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		You know, to this day, I think I might have mentioned this to you before.
		I am a little strange about closets.
		I will not go to sleep with a closet open.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No way.
		I will get up out of bed and I will close a closet.
		My wife thinks this is a riot.
		I don't like closets.
		There's things in closets.
		I've known that since I was your age.
		A youngster.
		I've always felt that way, and I always close closets.
		Now I do too.
unidentified		Do you do?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Because of that.
		Because I know, I think it's a symbol.
		I think when you lie there and see that, it's an open door.
		You can't really see what's in it.
		I think it's like a symbol of the doorway to the unknown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that's it.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I think that's what it's become to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you actually saw something there.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		They would come out, not every night, but frequently enough so that eventually, you know, I just kind of smile and said goodnight to them because I realized.
		Now, I think that set a pattern for me too, Art, is I saw that, okay, and I found out with my other kids at school that probably I saw people that they didn't.
		But I never felt fear then because I saw that there was no harm.
		So I suppose that's the objective part of me that has been able to just kind of focus and study and be more intrigued by what is going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, one of my great questions of all time regarding ghosts or poltergeists is whether we're looking at a sort of a distant echo, a past echo that is in some sort of endless tape repeating loop of somebody doing something again and again and again, or whether we're actually observing a spirit somehow coming to or trapped on Earth in real time.
		Now, when you get warnings about things that are going to happen, that would seem to lean toward the side of real time, that there's really a spirit there.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have to, at this point, I have to check all of the above.
		When I began my career as a psychical researcher, I was totally enthralled by the theory that you previously mentioned.
		And I still say that is responsible for 90% of the hauntings.
		And that is there is a faculty or capacity within the human psyche that somehow activates or receives impressions from, as you said, it's like a film loop because the entities do the same thing night after night.
		And it's always been my contention, or was my contention, that you could no more interact with those entities on that psychic loop, than you could with the entities you see in your television set or your movie screen.
		You can talk to Sam Donaldson all you want, but he's not going to hear you, and it's been tested that he will not respond to you.
		So that was my theory, and I still maintain that that's in the majority of cases.
		However, then, when I arrogantly slammed the door on an entity or whatever and had it kicked open and then myself lifted into the air along with several other people because I had definitely annoyed whatever it was there, I had to recognize in some cases there is the unknown, there's an intelligence there that I'm just devoting my life to trying to define.
		And then in other instances, I do believe that there is a spirit contact.
		And certainly in terms of spirit guides and contacts there, I'm a complete believer in that, angels and guides and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there are so many different categories.
		Do you think they all stem from the same basic place, the other side, or do you think that one is a relic or some sort of psychic relic of this world and has nothing at all to do with the other side?
		I'm asking questions that I'm sure you can't answer.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have fun trying.
		Again, I think it's at least both art.
		I think that there are entities that, in other words, let me rephrase that.
		I think there is an unseen world.
		And I think there are negatives that may be, and all, I never use this word, evil.
		But again, if that upsets people, they'll just say disruptive entities or negative entities that some people call demons.
		And then I think there are, certainly there's a symbiotic relationship.
		There is no question.
		Ghosts, spirits need us.
		They need us which to communicate.
		We're not talking about ghosts now, that memory pattern that we were talking about, the theory that you like and that I like for most of it.
		But when you get into spirits and entities, then they need us in order to fulfill their communication.
		But that's where people really have to be careful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I want to interject something here.
		I had a young lady on the air the other night who really shocked me, who really scared me.
		Her name, and we interviewed her for four hours straight.
		Her name was Patsy.
		She called herself Harlot.
		She's a real devil worshiper.
		I mean, hail Satan.
		She came from a background where her ex-husband had murdered her five-year-old.
		She was very comfortable with the fact, Brad, that she was going to hell when she dies.
		As she embraced it, she looks forward to it.
		And toward the end of the program, Brad, I asked her, well, if you're certain and comfortable with the fact that you're going to go to hell, eternally burning forever, whatever hell turns out to be, what about your five-year-old, who surely was an innocent, murdered, and is in heaven?
		You will not be with your five-year-old.
		And she paused, and she said, no, that's absolutely wrong, because before my child died, I took steps to ensure that my child would be in hell with Satan.
		That's scary.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's scary.
		Now, those people, in my opinion, have become afflicted by what I call spiritual parasites, soul parasites, entities that have somehow attached.
		That's why, again, I sound like an old fogey to so many young people because I am so strict against alcohol abuse, drug abuse, because it's when all those barriers are lowered that just go ahead and call it possession.
		But certainly, invasion of these spirit entities can occur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, she would say things like, it is my mission to subvert for Satan anybody I can.
		She will seduce men.
		She will do, I mean, really evil things.
		This was a person truly devoted to evil.
		And I thought at the time, either we're dealing with somebody who is mentally unbalanced, and she didn't sound that way, or we're dealing, you know, a case of schizophrenia of some sort, or we're dealing with somebody who is truly, as Father Malachi Martin would say, perfectly possessed.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Again, that's a concept that some years ago I would have laughed at.
		I no longer do.
		I think that is very real.
		I think I have encountered those individuals myself.
		I think they have surrendered and allowed themselves to be possessed or to have the soul parasites because there's all kinds of false promises.
		And as Sherry has said, you know, these entities are not going to appear as beautiful, glowing, excuse me, as ugly, grotesque, glowing monsters.
		They're going to appear as seductive angels.
		They're going to appear as glowing light beings.
		So we really have to, as scriptures say, we really have to test the spirits in those entities.
		And it's nothing to play around with.
		It's nothing to have games with.
		I guess that's my protest with some of the television presentations, the way they appeal to young people.
		They make it look like so much fun to be possessed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so in other words, it may actually lead children into experimenting with Ouija boards and all that.
		All right, hold on, Brad.
		Bottom of the hour.
		Take a rest.
		We'll be right back.
		Our guest is Brad Stager.
		I'm RFL.
		This is Coast to Coast.
		A.M. The devil went down to Georgia.
		He was looking for a sew to steal.
		He was in a bank because he was way behind.
		He was willing to make a deal.
unidentified		But he came across this young man sewing on a fiddle and playing it hot.
		And the devil jumped up on a hickory thumb and said, boy, let me tell you what.
		I guess you didn't know it, but I am a fiddle player, too.
		And if you care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
		Now, you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil a skew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll bet a fiddle.
		Once again, Brad Sager.
		By the way, Brad, how many books are we up to now?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Interestingly, I was just asked to count them for someone who was putting together a bibliography.
		139 published and a couple yet to come out.
		So I guess we can say 141.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, I've got to ask, how do you do that?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm just so happy in my work.
		Just so happy doing what I'm doing.
		And I guess I think that's my mission is to communicate with people in the printed form and through venues such as your wonderful radio show and some of the television appearances we do.
		I just think activating people, stimulating them, I've never, as you know from reading my books, I don't try to convince or sell anyone.
		I just present and allow people to make up their own minds because this is important material.
		It really affects who we are, what we are, where we came from, and where we're going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever have trouble with the creative process?
		Because for somebody who's written this many books, I have to ask, you know, how does it come to you?
		Does it come all at once?
		Does a book pour forth, or do you have to sweat each one through?
		Are some easier than others?
		That kind of thing?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		The physicality of it never gets easy.
		It's still hard work writing a book, but now I've got the muscles for it, so to speak.
		I know I can do it.
		You know, that's the number one thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You never go through great dry periods where nothing inspires you.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I don't have enough hours in the day to get everything down.
		I've got a whole cigar box full of ideas that I have yet to touch.
		But I have learned all kinds of techniques and exercises.
		For one thing, you know, you have to do it religiously.
		You can't just do it when inspiration strikes.
		You have to learn to control inspiration.
		And I always leave a sentence half-finished so you can, it's an amazing trick of the mind.
		If you finish it and you have to put a clean sheet of paper in there, it's tough getting going.
		So just stop right in the middle of a sentence, and it's amazing.
		You start and you just go right where you were.
		I mean, you just pick it up.
		It's as if time didn't exist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to remember that.
		Do you investigate, do you still write letters?
		Because it stands out to you, somebody who will experience their having right now in some city, and you must be occasionally tempted to get on an airplane and go.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, I spent 30 years doing exactly that, getting on airplanes, going all over.
		We don't do that as much anymore, and we've already cut down on the lecture appearances.
		We try to communicate by letters.
		I have the questionnaire that I've been sending out for over 30 years now that people fill out.
		And I guess the research has focused a little differently.
		As I said, we don't go out that often and go through the houses anymore and the actual sites like we used to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but you did do that, and you did it for years and years and years.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Years and years and years, probably, as I say, every state in the Union, including Hawaii and Alaska.
		No, not Alaska.
		I never investigated anything in Alaska, but I think every one of the other states and then overseas as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What were some of the more interesting trips that you can recall you made?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's so many.
		One trip, this is a situation where Sherry and I did go out.
		So we still do it from time to time.
		This was in a bed and breakfast in, we'll just say the Northwest for now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you usually protect generally sources, you know, people and change names to protect?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes, yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Because real estate values and all these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very true.
		That's very true.
		Any incidence of haunting.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		When even the National Registry reports which houses are haunted, you know.
		So, no, no, we do protect the anonymity, which is why I'm saying it this way.
		Okay.
		I wouldn't even tell anyone unless I had a release.
		And then I would really, I'd probably change the name anyway, even if the person didn't get a release.
		Sure.
		Because people change their minds.
		Early in my career, I had that experience where people, oh, no, write about it, write about it.
		And then someone gets remarried and the new spouse says, well, I don't want that.
		I mean, no, you know, well, what can you do?
		It's been out for 10 years, you know.
		Sure.
		So, but then you can't go up and collect 200,000 copies of this book.
		You know, you're going to have to live, but then that can get messy.
		So, yes, yes, we change the names.
		We protect the anonymity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I take it, you got a letter from somebody at this point?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, this was one where we were requested to spend the night in this incredible mansion.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it was massive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What were they claiming?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, a vast series of strange experiences.
		They were antique collectors, and they had literally treasures from every country imaginable.
		And they had done the various rooms in a motif of different, each one, you know, was a different culture, so to speak.
		But the point of it was the actual mansion itself had been constructed and lived in by, we'll say, a very eccentric multi-millionaire.
		We don't want to know that much about the history.
		When we did, later on I'll talk about a psychic safari I did with the medium Irene Hughes when we went to several places.
		We collected them for about a year.
		We did preliminary investigation and went from place to place throughout the entire Midwest, but we never told her anything about them, you know, so that it could be pure.
		Otherwise, you know, you can feedback or you can use your imagination, you can project contamination.
		Exactly.
		So we stayed in this one.
		We chose looking particularly eerie.
		But yet I didn't really feel anything, and I don't think Sherry did either.
		She's very sensitive.
		But in the middle of the night, poor Sherry was the one who.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to ask about that.
		Now, who is the real devotee?
		Would that be you or Sherry?
		are you both equally involved?
		You say, Jerry, listen, there's this little bed and breakfast up in the Northwest where there's this haunting and we want to go, It's very interesting because Sherry has, well, we each have our own abilities, and we complement each other that way.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And who receives the impression, I think, really depends upon who we are and who the haunting is.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		If you can understand what I'm saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can, yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		As you know, she is an ordained church, and she has resisted.
		I have told her that she could be one of the most astonishing psychic clairvoyance mediums.
		She has had, I mean, the predictions she has.
		I mean, I have learned I do not question when she says don't do this or don't do that, because I used to because of my own independent streak.
		And I mean, her accuracy is just incredible.
		But because she is a person of the cloth, she really underplays this.
		And, of course, she does put it all into a biblical context, which is fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Which is fine.
		She's coming from her perspective.
		And we respect one another, which is why we have a delightful marriage.
		First of all, she said to me, why are you sitting over in that chair when you sit next to her and say what?
		She saw me clearly sitting first pacing.
		She watched me pacing the room, or so she thought it was I, pacing the room, pacing the room, and then sitting in the chair and putting my head in my hands and shaking my head like I was just really upset.
		So she said, and then she realized it was not I. It was not me.
		So she described it to me, and she says, what an eerie feeling, you know, I'm talking to you across the room, and then I feel you beside me.
		And this was in the original bed.
		It was a huge thing, you know, so stuffed.
		That's something I would not normally sleep in.
		So later in the evening then, or in the night, we went back to sleep.
		And then Sherry feels first it's my hand reaching over and taking hers.
		And she feels this hand and then feels this hand.
		And first she thinks, you know, that I'm reaching over, you know, as married couples will do.
		And then she realizes that's not my hand.
		It's a little hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A little hand.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And then she sees glowing is this hand and arm, the forearm and arm of a baby, of an infant.
		And it's holding her head up.
		I was on earlier the next morning and spoke to the before Sherry came down.
		Okay, well, the essence of what we're talking about here, Art, is that was the room in which the baby died.
		The husband and wife were distressed.
		The husband was pacing off and reached out finally and touched its mother's hand for consolation and then died.
		So many people had reported seeing the man pacing and then feeling and having touched and having the baby's hand reach out and touched it.
		Now, you see, if we had known that first, do you see what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, it would have been a total contamination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Then we'd say, oh, we experienced that last, and then whether we did or we didn't.
		People would say, well, you know, it would be, but that's why we don't want to know.
		We want to know things are going on.
		Well, of course, the fact that it is.
		But again, I was thinking of the Egyptian trip that you just recalled when you lay down in that sarcophagus in the king's chamber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There aren't words.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		There aren't words.
		We had a manifestation, and I went with a small group art, and an incredible, piercing sound permeated the entire king's chamber.
		And one of our party disappeared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I beg your view.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		We found her.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we didn't know what to do.
unidentified		Call her husband back in the States.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		We notified the embassy.
		I mean, we were in a panic.
		I mean, she disappeared from the king's chamber.
		Finally, about two weeks later, we found her living in Cairo with an indigenous couple who had treated her very kindly and had literally found her wandering the streets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did she have memory of...
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		it was very hazy.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		She only knew she, uh, That's not an easy place to get up and down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I was laughing at the temperature because your heart could survive that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
		In those temperatures with that slime and all those people.
		Absolutely correct.
		And I will try, Brad.
		I got the lion's sarcophagus.
		Nobody else was willing to do it, as a matter of fact.
		So I did.
		and...
		I said some words while I was in there, and it stopped me cold because there was an incredible, this is where it gets hard, a resonance that was more than a resonance.
		I could feel it in sort of every fiber of my entire body.
		There was definitely something happening there.
		And it just, it was a total body feeling.
		It wasn't just an echo.
		I mean, there's a certain acoustic something or another in the king's chamber, of course.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Strange place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it was much more than that.
		I can only imagine what it would be like to go up there, say, in the middle of the night when there was nobody around and spend two or three or four hours in that sarcophagus.
		I'm not certain I'd be willing to do that.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I might.
		Well, I think you'd really have to be prepared, you know, psychically, spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
		The sound that manifested, we tried to have numerous people try to analyze it, and it just goes right off the spectrum.
		It is the eeriest thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the sounds and the resonances in that chamber go right off the spectrum anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There have been some people with actual audio gear have gone in there and measured.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's totally bizarre.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But this manifested and became just so piercing in E.T., but at the very end Elliot touches right.
		It was kind of a.
		That's what occurred in the king's chamber.
		And it was just an incredible experience for everyone there.
		But I guess this one poor individual simply could not take it.
		And I guess somehow she managed to just poof from right in the middle because we were in a circle holding hands.
		And suddenly she's gone.
		And oh, what a frightening experience.
		But then she had been found by this very kind native couple there, Egyptian couple, and taken home to their home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For two weeks.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, it really is.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		It was a frightening experience, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You definitely confirmed.
		Now, everybody should know, and everybody, particularly the group leader, tries to keep everybody together.
		Oh, absolutely.
		So you know for sure that she had made it to the king's chamber.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes, yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Because as you say, you know, you count noses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And in this case, just as I assume that, you know, you and Ramona were kind of the, even though you had a guide and so forth, you were kind of the figureheads, the Mucky Mucks or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we had Zahi Awass with us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was Mucky Muck, really.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right, but I mean, certainly I suppose you felt a responsibility in a sense.
		And certainly I did.
		So, you know, this is something where I would count Moses and the Egyptian guides.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And she just.
		It was a horrible experience because how do you phone home and tell a husband, sorry, your wife disappeared in the king's chamber?
		All right, Brad, hold on.
		We're at the breakpoint here.
		We'll be right back.
		So that should sort of set the tone for the kind of night we're going to have tonight.
		Brad Steiger is my guest.
		We will talk of many things as the night continues.
		I'm Marcelle.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. I can't go by.
		I can't say goodbye without your love.
		Hi,
		this S. Art Bell
		is taking your calls on the Wild Guard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. from the Kingdom of My with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yes, that's who I am.
		Good morning, everybody.
		Brad Steiger is my guest as we enter the realm of Halloween.
		Speaking of realms, you might want to take a second and check out the live studio cam photograph.
		I'll leave that up for about 30 minutes.
		The t-shirt I'm wearing is from the Isle of Rhodes, a Greek island, one of those I visited.
		That happens to be the very same island, by the way, that that beautiful young lady on my website came from, where I snapped her photograph.
		Something graph, it's there right now.
		On my website, www.artbell.com.
		I've got another announcement you're going to want to hear in a moment.
unidentified		The page.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'll speak to you.
		And in a way, it kind of parallels what we're talking about tonight with Brad, Brad Steiger.
		I got a call earlier tonight from Linda Malten-Howe in Philadelphia, and she has apparently three frames of a video taken in of all places, Phoenix, Arizona, under the category of clear object.
		And that video is now on object in the sky, UFO.
		And that video is, and I will extract from it a still photograph.
		Then I got a call earlier today to make this a double treat from Chris Carmichael, a Red County, actually North County, I guess, San Diego.
		And a fellow had come to him who had taken apparently as many as 26 photographs of an object in North County, I guess North County or San Diego, with a 35 millimeter camera, apparently quite clear photographs.
		Chris rated them, and I trust his judgment, somewhere between good and excellent.
		So those photographs are on the way to me as well.
		I will scan them in some sort of high-definition mode, and all of that will be coming to my website, a website near you, specifically mine, in the next couple of days.
		But we're getting an awful lot of sightings, daytime sightings of things that ought not be in our skies.
		And there are, in a lot of ways, parallels that I see between UFOs and these weird things in our skies that you can't quite put your hand on, but occasionally you can take a photograph of, and spirits and ghosts and that sort of thing that Brad talks about.
		Do you see the parallels, Brad?
unidentified		Yes, I always have.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		To me, there's only one phenomenon.
		These are all extensions of one haunted planet that we live on.
		And ghosts, UFOs, they are so similar.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I think it's entirely possible they may even be dealing with the same phenomena.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I feel very strongly about that.
		My book, Gods of Aquarius, some years ago dealt extensively with that.
		I think one of the great flying saucer movies is The Wizard of Oz.
		This glowing white sphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And then when she touches down, boom.
		Are you a good witch or a bad witch?
		Well, that's what we've been asking about the UFO and all this phenomena.
		Are you good or bad?
		Do you mean us harm?
		Or are you here to help us?
		Are you benevolent?
		Are you malicious?
		Or is it all some kind of big then teaching riddle?
		Are we being led?
		I've said, you know, that the UFO is the symbol that's pulling us into the future.
		And we go all back to ancient times.
		That seems to be one of its facets.
		But certainly the area of psychic phenomena and ufology.
		We're not talking about denying extraterrestrial life.
		We're just saying that the great majority of what we experience is probably more in the realm of psychic phenomena.
		I really do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really do agree.
		Somebody sent me kind of a double whammy here, a bit of a joke.
		It shows a shopkeeper behind his.
		His condition is you can haggle, but you can't cackle.
		And below it, there's a message for you or a question.
		What his belief system is regarding a belief in a higher power?
		Listen and watch his reaction.
		I can listen but not watch he has a ha ha ha ha He has a nervous laugh.
		Perhaps he is actually a perfectly possessed person himself.
		Do his books lead people to spiritual heights or depths?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Have a nervous laugh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what they said, yes.
		And if I read this subjective between the lines of this, they're saying, hmm, where is Mr. Steiger taking us?
		Is he taking us to a scary place, the depth of fear of the human soul, or is he trying to heighten us spiritually?
		And so I think we've got a fundamentalist on our hands here.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I would say, making the same subjective evaluation in the category of my nervous laughter, I will make a subjective evaluation and say that's what's lurking behind that question.
		I have made no secret that I believe in a supreme being, a higher power.
		It would be very difficult being married to a Protestant minister and feel otherwise, I think.
		That would not make harmony.
		But my own belief structure, I've said, I think on this show, that I was groomed until graduation day to go on to the seminary, but I just chose a larger congregation through my books.
		I have appeared, and very recently, with an extremely cut along famously, because I have said so often that it's semantics.
		We are saying the same thing.
		I think people of spirit and goodwill should stop bickering and being picky on each other.
		There is a perceived, if you will, that those of us of goodwill and spirit should be supporting one another.
		don't have to agree with everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you were on the way to the You were on the way.
		You were in a seminary, I guess.
		Is that correct?
		Or were you going to be on the way?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		I announced to the Bible department, went to a parochial school.
		Again, and as a teenager, I would take over for the minister when he was on vacation.
		And I was so pious that it would make you upset to your stomach.
		But I just felt, I guess, after my near-death experience, and I saw that denominations, in my opinion, didn't really mean a whole lot.
		And the emphasis is on the path of spirit, recognizing those who agree with us all the time or who sit beside us in the church pew, but other pews and other faiths and other denominations and other churches.
		There are many, many faces of God.
		There are many, many paths to God.
		And that's part of the lesson of schoolhouse earth, is to find our path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I too believe that, Brad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		NDE, when did you have a near-death?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		The small town in which I lived, all my friends, everyone had been told, I suppose, I was not clinically dead, but talking to the doctor who treated me, who is now nearly 90 years old, remembering, I mean, he Again, said I was as good as, so I got the body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody's going to want to know what had happened to you.
		You've got to recall, and I think I recall this story.
		Many, many, many new affiliates.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Many people will not have heard this.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell it quickly because I, you know, as you say, I have told it before, and I don't want to be repetitive here.
		But I'm an Iowa farm boy.
		I'm a country boy.
		So we were rushing to get our chores and our tasks finished so that we could do something very rare in those days, eat out to celebrate my parents' anniversary.
		And I did a very careless thing to hurry.
		Haste makes waste, to haste can also kill you with some farm machinery.
		And I actually fell into the thickly scalped and head practically torn off.
		And I found out then that it doesn't hurt to die.
		It's nothing at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what everybody says who has this experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't hurt.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I was then moving toward this beautiful light.
		I realized I was dying.
		I had a moment of panic and fear.
		And then an almost ecstatic calm came over me because I saw something that I cannot put in.
		This was I've seen when Sherry was doing a healing seminar and she was using some slides of fractal geometry.
		And the closest I saw then was kind of like I saw a symbol.
		I saw a kind of gene that somehow conveyed to me that there was a meaning and a purpose to life.
		And that if I did go into the light, it didn't really matter.
		Life would go on.
		The Western world and civilization as we know it would continue without me.
		But then I taken to what I suppose, you know, my kind of ideal concept.
		I mean, I spent what seemed like the next couple days in this beautiful kind of country village in the mountains and surrounded by animals and friendly people and ice cream vendors and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me just stop you for one second.
		Gordon Michael Scallion, Daniel Brinkley, a gazillion other people that I've interviewed who I considered geometric designs.
		Is there any way you can put into words?
		Gordon tried also.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What these designs...
		What...
		Are there words?
unidentified		No.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		What it imparted was, again, to me, that there was a purpose and meaning to life.
		There was an author, a supreme being, if you will.
		There was a purpose and a plan to life.
		And that I had been a part of it.
		Perhaps I would again.
		It was undecided whether I was going to go on at that point or not.
		I first revived.
		I was in and out the only hospital at that time, 15, 20 miles away.
		And I was literally bleeding to death.
		And the doctor then decided to make a run for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long did it take them to find you, by the way, from the time this occurred until someone came upon you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or was there somebody right there?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my poor little seven-year-old sister was with me.
		So I began screaming to my father then, who then, and that was a terrible place.
		It was bloody and painful and terrible.
		And I would leave again, and I would be above, and I was watching.
		And the interesting thing, time and space simply did not exist.
		I thought of my mother, and I thought, oh, I've spoiled the plans.
		My mother, what's my mother's doing?
		And suddenly I was right beside her in the kitchen as she was making lunch and doing things.
		Then I thought, oh, we were going to get together.
		My friends and I were going to see a big double-feature cowboy movie tonight.
		What are they doing?
		And I was suddenly beside each of them as they were working on their respective family farms.
		As I say, I came back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you recall a sense of physical self during that time at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, is there any way to describe it?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I had the sense of physical self when I realized I was dying.
		And I didn't want to leave.
		I didn't want to leave my parents, didn't want to leave my sister, didn't want to leave my friends.
		And then, as I say, there was a feeling, then that geometric design came.
		And after that, I was in just like a state of calm ecstasy.
		I mean, I was just, everything was peaceful.
		I was contented.
		I felt one.
		I felt totally at one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I kept surprising.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Again, I felt, I suppose, because I said I was an extremely religious little boy.
		I felt I was probably going into the arms of Jesus is what I felt, because that would have been my orientation and the angels and so forth.
		But when I went wherever I went, I went to kind of an idyllic dimension, I guess, until I regained consciousness probably a couple days later in the hospital.
		I was taken to a hospital.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you're just stopping you again for a second, as a whole community, sort of.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, it seemed like it to me.
		It seemed like there were...
		I felt welcome.
		I felt looked after.
		Which, again, whether that was an aspect of heaven or an aspect of my idealization of what heaven would be, I don't know.
		I can't say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may well be that heaven for all of us is a very different place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would all of us have to be.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		We may take our own conceptions and desires.
		But I regained consciousness then.
		I was in a Roman Catholic hospital, and I remember the child in the room with me was Sensed that I had been there, and they asked me at 11 years old, with my head completely covered with bandages and just a little space for me to speak, to tell those parents where their little girl was going and that it was a beautiful place.
		Yes, I began my ministry in that hospital room at age 11, comforting the parents as they sat by the bedside of their dying daughter.
		No, no, they seemed very conversant.
		And I hadn't said that much.
		They just seemed to sense that I had been there and back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		What I mean is the nuns obviously deal with this kind of thing.
		So they must have known that you knew.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that was the feeling, that there was just a knowing.
		And then I remember they asked me if I would speak.
		The priest had been there, the nuns had been there, and then they asked if I would talk to the parents.
		That was, you know, I went to the light, I went to this place, and it's beautiful.
		And again, I put it all so, of course, because, as I said, I came from an evangelistic background, believe and so forth.
		But after all, they were obviously Roman Catholic, so they certainly understood and responded to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's quite a story.
		All right, Brad, hold tight.
		It's the bottom of the hour.
		My guess is Brad's explanation of that NDE, that near-death experience, explains such similar stories.
		Is it evidence that adds up to something?
		I think so.
		I really think so, and we will continue to pursue it for exactly that reason.
		From the high desert, I'm Art Bell, and this, of course, is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast to Coast AM Dial area code 702-727-8499.
		That's area code 702-727-8499.
		Please limit faxes to one or two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		And speaking of the Kingdom of Nigh, there's a pretty good photograph up there on the website's live studio cam right now.
		That fits the Kingdom of Nigh.
		My guest is Brad Steiger, and he'll be right back.
		Right now.
		I want to tell you an amazing story and a true one.
		Late last year, a most unbelievable discovery was made here in Nevada, my state.
		$20 U.S. gold pieces were found in a Wells Fargo bank here in Nevada.
		The size of the find was incredible.
		The quality of the coins, equally unbelievable, were still covered with a fine coating of gold dust, which is typical of coins fresh from the mint.
		Brother Wolfer coins which are just about 90 years old.
		Hall's North American Trading would be happy without cost to find more information on these coins.
		The photographs are worth seeing, believe me.
		Just call 1-800-359-4255 and those photographs will be on the way and we'll see if you're intrigued.
		That number again for North American trading is 1-800-359-4255.
		All right, Hankite, all the lines are humming, of course, and we will get to the phones in due course.
		Brad Seiger is my guest, and here is a question for you, Brad.
		Dear Art, it says, is there a person with a very active imagination and life, and yet I've never experienced a ghostly experience, a spiritual manifestation of some sort?
		Are there any public places that Brad might suggest where some sort of entity would likely drop by?
		Failing that, what could I offer as an invitation?
		That's from Ian in Tucson.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, so often I get quite the other query, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do I get rid of it?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		There are people who are ghost magnets, you know, who seem to attract them.
		I'm just not the kind of person who believes in forcing these kinds of experiences.
		I know it is no consolation to someone who probably would secretly like an experience to say it will happen when the time is right.
		But as annoying as that might be to people, I really have to stand by that.
		I don't believe in putting yourself where you might not be able to handle it.
		I think so often of the police officer who was with me, and when we saw a ghost materializing, had given me such a bad time all day about believing in ghosts and so forth that I'm afraid I began to materialize.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you ought to tell that whole story.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a very detailed story, but I'll just finish this and then I can go put it in context.
		At any rate, the ghost began to form in front of us.
		I said, no, I don't see anything.
		Because he had been writing me finally then when it got solid, more solid, and he was about to pull out his police special.
		That's when I said, yes.
		And that was the only time I put my hand inside a ghost.
		I put it in dry ice.
		It was just very cold inside there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where were you, roughly?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, roughly, the place has now been destroyed.
		It was a mansion, a political figure.
		This was a place where you lifted an optical call.
		And as in so many instances, it was through police that I was contacted because the police had been brought out there, new stations.
		What would begin until quite recently, I'm going back in time now, so I'm From the perspective of 10 years ago, let's say, until quite recently when I was called in, two spinster sisters had lived in the house.
		It was a mansion, it had stables, it had the complete works, it was a Marvel or the entity or the form would materialize to the west of the stables and then would walk across the lane and would walk into the house.
		And then you could see his glowing house.
		His daughters, who at that time were probably in their mid-80s and close to 90, would speak.
		And the police could hear from the outside.
		People in the area then had called.
		They were disturbed by these manifestations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's how the police got involved.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's how the police got involved.
		So the manifestations after the want was sent to a nursing home.
		But the manifestations continued, of course.
		To go through the place and to look at the situation.
		And as I say, then we came.
unidentified		We were there first.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		We arrived in the evening.
		We saw the glowing manifestation cross the lane.
		We decided not to go down cold.
		We came back and early investigated, did research, and then came back that night and saw the manifestation repeat itself.
		And as I say, saw his firearm.
		Now, this manifestation continued.
		We returned.
		This is eerie.
		I returned with my chief investigator a year later, and we watched the same manifestation.
		And then, when we turned to go back to our automobile, somehow a pitchfork has materialized and driven itself right in front of our car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, bad.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		There were a lot of strange spots, a lot of strange circles burnt into the ground.
		So there again, we have that UFO ghost connection.
		And interesting, just before they tore it down, I heard two police officers had gone out there hearing the story and they going over it and having heard me talk, went out to see for themselves.
		And they admitted they came and they just burned rubber and got out of there.
		It's something, as they said very frankly, that wasn't covered in the police manuals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You actually put your hand into this manifestation?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I thought it was a wonderful opportunity, and I couldn't resist.
		The manifestation was materializing, taking first it started as like swirling mist.
		Then it acquired more body, more body, more body, and then it was kind of like a sparkling outline of a man.
		And I couldn't resist.
		I had to put my hand inside.
		And it was very cold.
		But you see, here again, I guess I really felt it was some sort of repetitive pattern.
		I didn't fear, you know, that the ghost was going to grab me, you know, that sort of thing.
		I felt that...
		This was just before.
		See, I hadn't had that experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		I wanted to clarify that.
		Because having had the second experience, I doubt you would have done that.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And I was going to say I hadn't had that experience yet.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know if you remembered that or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remembered that.
		I'll have you tell that story because a lot haven't heard it.
		But why do you think, and of course, when manifestations occur, even when you don't put your hand in them, there are many, many, many zillions of reports of cold spots.
		Why do you think the cold?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, but in my experience, that has been true.
		And when I am investigating, I always look for the cold spot.
		That seems to be a sure sign of a spirit presence, spirit manifestation is the cold that comes.
		And certainly, as I said, it was like sticking my hand into a snowman or something.
		In fact, that's pretty much the way it sounded.
		It felt sounded.
		I was just a slip.
		There was really no sound.
		There was no sound with any of this.
		Again, people claimed several people there said they heard voices, but it was like a babble of voices.
		And I've heard that in haunted houses.
		We have that in the house we're living in currently, as a matter of fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you hear?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Just voices speaking, not in a negative way.
		This is a very happy house.
		This is a small town.
		It seems like half the town has, and everyone loves it, and it's just a happy house.
		But we'll hear, I often hear a person talking, we'll say, or are you listening to the radio?
		Are you listening to television?
		No, I'm sitting here working.
		But you hear the sound of voices engaged.
		And those echoes of the past seem to be very common.
		I have heard, I don't see as often as I smell and hear.
		I mean, that's what it is to me.
		I certainly have never felt any threat in this house.
		And nothing, again, as I say, it's a happy house, and the voices we hear sound happy.
		It's kind of like eavesdropping on people having happy conversations, but it does get deceptive when you think it's your spouse or, you know, you think you have company.
		And again, the sound of footsteps when you know you're all alone home is...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I wouldn't think of that as good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even if it's happy, footsteps, to me, would cause me to run for a gun.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, again, I grew up in a house with this kind of manifestation.
		And I guess I, again, I had a beautiful, beautiful sign before the show.
		And I can't stop thinking about it.
		And if you'll I don't suggest that people go alone to these places.
		I have a friend with me who was one of the toughest.
		He was Green Beret, he was black belt, he was everything.
		And we were devoted to each other, and he was always with me.
		We always had police and others, but I always knew he was with me.
		And I guess I was kind of thinking about some of the experiences today.
		And on your adventure, Sherry left to do errands.
		I'm getting a little emotional here, so forgive me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite all right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Seek the pipes, playing.
		And my friend was Scots.
		And we always were teasing each other since I am of Scandinavian background.
		He's a Scots, the traditional rivalry between the two.
		And I just knew it was he.
		When his wife told me he passed, and that was just a beautiful sign to me, Art, that Glenn was still with me.
		He said just before he died he would never leave me.
		And it's a beautiful sign tonight that he's still there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is something.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I wonder.
		Here in Iowa where we're living, you don't hear bagpipe music just like I thought.
		I knew Sherry was out of the house, and I thought, there's no way, since she knows I'm trying to take a nap, that she would put on bag tight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People from the other side to manifest either vocally or with some misty presence or, you know, in some rare cases, a very solid form is reflected.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I've had mediums, you know, channel and say that they take ectoplasm or they take people at their value and take that, you know, just as people who are human, giving human testimony that may or may not be true.
		Again, the theory that you and I said at the beginning, we feel comfortable with, that so much of this is just a pattern that somehow people of a certain sensitivity are able to activate.
		That's where you actually feel there's an intelligence involved and sometimes a somewhat malevolent intelligence.
		So I don't know.
		I have been told, you know, that I unconsciously serve as a reservoir, a receptor, a channel for this.
		People say, oh, did you write that book all by yourself?
		Are you sure?
		From time to time, I have been aware of taking dictation, so to speak.
		I think in some of my more lasting and more profound faces.
		Maybe this is where we get the concept of the muse, you know, the spirit that comes and inspires us.
		And I think there's some basic truth to that.
		That is a feminine aspect.
		Creativity, I think, is the, we need the masculine guiding aspect.
		We need the feminine creative aspect.
		So in a sense, we do objectify sometimes and personalize our creative self as a muse, as an entity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		It's really strange you should say that because this book I've written, I wrote The Quickening.
		And by the way, it's on the bestseller list.
		New York Times bestseller list number four or something like that.
		Really incredible.
		It's amazing to me.
		Anyway, it poured out, Brad.
		It poured out.
		And, you know, I had written a book previously to that, and it was real work.
		I mean, I had to sweat over it, autobiographical, and I sweated over it.
		But this book just poured out.
		Nevertheless, it didn't occur to me until fairly recently.
		Let me back up.
		I don't give a lot of credibility to channelers.
		I don't really like channelers.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I have heard from her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have?
		Okay, then you know.
		And I just, you know, there's something about it, and I'm not saying my sister's a fraud or anything.
		Oh, no, no, no.
		It's just too much room for fraud.
		I mean, I could sit here right now, and I could put on a little act, and I could come up with some voice that sounded a little different, and I could start to say things, and I could be fraudulent.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Too easy.
		Too much of a chance for fraud.
		And yet, when I think about the way that book was written, it gives me picture where all of it came from.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Let me just put some of channeling into a little different perspective for you, my friend.
		There's shamanism.
		I think we all have shamanistic capacities.
		I think we all have the ability to channel, to reach our higher selves and get information.
		But again, we have to test it.
		And it makes is one of the problems with channeling.
		And again, I have many dear, wonderful people who channel messages to me or for me.
		And I say, thank you very much, you know, but this maybe it isn't for me.
		You know, it's something that would even be contrary.
		This may have been for you.
		And it's the same way when you go on a vision quest.
		You may receive a vision that you are to share with the tribe, i.e.
		others in your community, or it may be a message strictly for you.
		So if you go on a vision quest and the higher self or the guide or the great spirit, whatever says you must eat whale blubber, that may not apply to anyone other than you.
		Maybe you, your system, needs what is in that whale blubber for that moment.
		And I sound facetious, but I hope I'm making the point is that so much of it is individualized and is not meant to be shared.
		And that's kind of the quarrel I have with just this generic blanket channeling.
		I think it is an aspect of shamanism.
		I think we all have that ability.
		We call it creativity or we call it our own guidance or we call it the answer to prayer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, I want to believe, for probably egotistical reasons, that what's in that book came from me.
		Sure.
		I'm trying to cling to that.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		It came through you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But however you want to say it.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Whether it was your views, whether it was channeling, whether it was your brain, it came through you.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And all the impressions that you have had as a sensitive observer, as a journalist, it all came together and just flowed when you finally, you talked about writing that book, you know, it first started you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		No, that's exactly right.
		But it was later, it was when I looked back on it and even reread it, and I sort of said, hmm, I kind of wonder if all of this sort of formed up elsewhere and God forbid the word channeled through me.
		And I don't really believe that, and I don't want to believe that, but I have some suspicions about it.
		And what does your sister say?
		She hasn't made any comment on the book yet.
		I'm surprised.
		I had no idea you had heard from her.
		I'm surprised.
		She is a very, very, very nice letter.
		I'll be darned.
		The things you find out.
		When we come back, I'm going to return for a second to Egypt because I've got a very, very interesting facts here from Milwaukee with regard to the disappearance of people from the king's chamber.
		How long has it been, Brad, since you were in Egypt?
		When was that?
unidentified		Early 80s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think that it's changed.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, not that king's chamber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they've done some digging in certain areas since then, but it's a very, very, very unusual place.
		Anyway, I'll read that fact soon when we get back.
		You've got a pretty good break here, and we'll be back after the witching hour.
		Terrific.
		When, by the way, it will be the day before the day, Halloween.
		Carefully, the news may have news of the Asian markets.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Hi, Rookie here for Cara Collision in class.
unidentified		our telephone number, 444-0000-444-0000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now listen, did you...
unidentified		Minneapolis.
		To talk with Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM from outside the U.S., first dial your access numbers to the USA.
		Then dial 1-800-893-0903.
		This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nigh with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what it is.
		Good morning, everybody.
		My guest is Brad Steiger.
		So you're in for a real treat.
		If you're just joining us at this hour, buckle down.
		It should be a good one.
unidentified		It's a good one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seems like I've got a couple of announcements that I'm supposed to be making tonight.
		And we will have Ghost to Ghost AM tomorrow night.
		And then possibly also heading into Friday night, Saturday morning, in view of the fact that Halloween officially, of course, is on Friday.
		Ghost to Ghost AM, for those of you that have never heard it, is a rendering of true ghost stories by all of you.
		And that is a night we do not have a guest, perhaps a couple of nights in which we do not have a guest, and it is one of the more chilling things I guarantee you will ever hear because so many people have experienced that which you're hearing about tonight from Brad Steiger.
		We'll get back to Brad in a moment.
		He left.
		That's 1-800-447-7911.
		All right, back now to Brad Steiger.
		And we were talking earlier about Egypt.
		As you know, I got an opportunity to lie in the sarcophagus in Egypt.
		And Brad told this story about a woman who had been on tour with him who had come up to the king's chamber as part of the group.
		This is kind of a strange story, folks.
		And she suddenly just...
		And they were calling the end of my husband back in the States that, you know, this woman had virtually disappeared from the king's chamber.
		It was a very odd story.
		And the end of it was that she was found about two weeks later, get this, living with a very nice Egyptian couple who had taken her in.
		Apparently it found her wandering on the streets, I would presume, of Cairo, which is adjacent to Giza, where the pyramids are and the Sphinx, and had taken her in.
		And this was two weeks later.
		And so somebody just faxed the following.
		And I want to read this to you, Brad.
		Art Great Show, I have a comment about the woman disappearing from the king's chamber.
		I remember a previous guest talking about how when opened might allow the blowing wind to produce a particular resonance.
		Could it be that this is what the sound was and that the woman was then, in effect, teleported somewhere, kind of like the Stargate nature of the Great Pyramid that has been alluded to by many.
		Maybe different resonance.
		Brad says he assumes she ran out.
		Was she ever asked?
		That's from Dave in Milwaukee.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a good response.
		This was quite unacceptable.
		If I had to analyze the sound because we did get it on tape, we were, I traveled with the tape recorder.
		I was picking up street sounds, everything.
		I like to do that.
		And so the tape recorder picked up the strange manifestation too on it.
		As I said, it's some years, I think really what probably happened was the emotionality and the tension of it became such that she probably could not, and somehow managed to run out of there and down capturing everyone's attention and everyone's looking around.
		Where is it coming from?
		What's going to happen next?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, his question was, was she ever later at her recollection?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's the strange part.
		She didn't really.
		We, of course, were just overjoyed to find her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, two weeks, Brad.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And I think diplomatically, you know, people didn't push too hard.
		Very succinctly, and we left it.
		Again, I don't have any sense of her being teleported or whatever.
		But whatever happened to her, it left her shattered for several days.
		And thank heaven, and it was a very poor family who took her home.
		And living with them on that sort of basic level of human kindness and nurture, I think, probably brought her back.
		It'd be interesting after all these years what she would remember from it.
		At the time, her recollection seemed to be very jumbled and very hazy.
		It was a horrifying experience and not knowing what had happened.
		And those are the terrors, of course, of leading groups.
		Again, in Peru, we had an astonishing situation there with spirits in Machu Picchu.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a place I want to visit.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		It just was just delightful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it about Machu Picchu?
		Daniel talks much about that as well.
		What is that place?
unidentified		May, I guess the subject didn't come up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope he's feeling much better now.
		And his blood count is all up and down, and they can't figure it out.
		He's going to specialists, but otherwise, the last clot in his brain is being absorbed, and he appears to be getting better.
unidentified		Wonderful.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		We're simply holding him in our prayers, as I'm sure many people are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you trying to talk me into going down there like crazy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's there?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess my totem animal is the canine, the wolf, the dog.
		And I had a dream vision just before horrible red-eyed creatures chasing us and then being saved by my totem animal, by dogs, by wolves.
		Now, this was an incredible experience.
		You mentioned going into the king's chamber late at night.
		Well, we managed to cross some palms with silver and were allowed to go to the ruins after everyone else was gone.
		And which we were uniting, we being the Eagles from the north, connecting with the Condor of the South.
		We had a medicine, local medicine man who was leading us, but he did not go on this particular evening.
		Sherry and I led a small group, one of which was a Los Angeles policeman.
		And I mean, I'm indicating that to show that there are all kinds and levels of people, all rational people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		We went to this one particular area deep in the heart of Machu Picchu.
		And we set up candles, and we were having a very beautiful little ceremony, prayers, and blessings.
		And all of a sudden, a wind came out of nowhere and blew all the Los Angeles policemen who saw very clearly and began to become very frightened of large entities, ancient entities.
		Once again, art came over the entire group.
		It was cold.
		This wind came.
		And then from nowhere appears four dogs and begin to bark and drive these entities back into the darkness.
		And I had, when I was a little boy, I had my bacon really saved.
		Two dogs materialized and drove it up a tree.
		And there were no such dogs around or in that area.
		And after that, they disappeared.
		So I real strongly that my guardians and my guides can assume that form when necessary.
		But they drove the entities back.
		It was an incredible experience, absolutely incredible.
		I know the people, the hand, it was just maybe a dozen of us, those people, stilled the fear of finding our way back out of the ruins.
		The flashlights, it was as if they're again, the energy was totally taken from them.
		It was very dark.
		And I know everyone just kind of clung together in a line, but the dogs moved away back to the main gate where they let tourists come in and then they were gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting that you should mention a policeman because I get literally every day.
		Email.
		I get through them all.
		But without identifying anybody, which I would never do for their own protection.
		I get a disproportionate number of emails and letters from law officers all across the country, in cities all across the country, who have had all kinds of strange paranormal experiences, which they're willing to describe to me, but inevitably at the end, please, Art, you know, I've got a career.
		I really can't talk about this publicly.
		I've heard just about everything described, and they have a disproportionately large number of these experiences.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You know, I've been sending out a questionnaire since 1967, And law enforcement officers have just moved.
		I gave a percentage, you know, percentile rating of the different professions and occupations that contact me.
		And you're right.
		Either we are really gaining sensitive law enforcement officers, or they are becoming encouraged to speak out.
		And again, personally, you know, some of my very best friends, the dear friend I mentioned with the bagpipes, who was a former police officer before he became a private detective, and other police officers have always been primary in area to do little areas, even flying me in certain places, you know, in planes and so forth.
		There's just an overwhelming number of police officers who have these experiences.
		I get remarkable stories, you know, about just knowing, I mean, picking up a bank robber or a thief, rather, before it's been called in because they just drove past and knew that that man had robbed such and such a place.
		And then they're already rested before the report even comes in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then, too, though, they go as a matter of daily course to places of violence, great emotional disturbance.
		They go to places where all kinds of terrible things happen.
		And these tend to be the kinds of places that are haunted.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Law enforcement said he thought it was because, just what you were touching on there, Art, they are in situations of jeopardy that basic sense, the ESP sense, and them for their survival almost has to be stronger than in the average population.
		Or perhaps they've learned to rely on it.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fight-or-flight thing that causes them to rely on that inner whatever it is that we have.
		Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly right.
		Here's another question for you.
		In the last show you did with me on the air, this listener says, please ask Brad the following.
		Don't Eastern religions consider reincarnation a curse in that it takes so many times or lives, if you will, to work off your sin?
		This is what I've learned.
		How does he contrast reincarnation with Christianity?
		Jesus told parables that indicated we doctor's.
		It says, it is appointed for a man to die once, then the judgment.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there are all kinds of, to get into the Bible quoting situation, which I never like to do, there are so many other passages which seem to indicate that we have to remember Christianity is also an Eastern religion.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And at the Conflict of 25 reincarnation lost by only three votes of being included, if it had passed, we wouldn't be having those questions today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It bothers me that there was a vote by human beings on the matter anyway.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Why, of course.
		Who do you say that I am?
		Well, they say you are Elijah returned.
		No, John the Baptist could have been Elijah.
		So again, playing the Bible verse game, I think, has built in hazards.
		But I'll answer the first question.
		It's not that they consider karma or the wheel of return a curse, but in some aspects they do.
		When the child begins to speak of a past life, they discourage it because they feel one life at a time, if you entertain or encourage the memories of a past life, many Eastern religionists believe, it can become additionally stressful, which I think we would agree.
		And why, again, we don't encourage people if they're doing it for therapy, if they're doing it for raising their soul evolution and insight and wisdom and awareness, but just for kicks, you know, unbalanced, you think probably reincarnation is a fact, though?
		Well, I think it is certainly one of the forms that survival after death may take.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Brad Steiger, bottom of the hour.
		He's my guest.
		We will soon begin to take phone calls.
		We'll look for yours.
unidentified		We'll look for yours.
		We've got to get right back.
		Love it for.
		We gotta get right back to where we started from.
		We gotta get right back to where we started from.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockam.
		5-503.
		That's 1-800-825-5033.
		Now, here again is Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, I am here.
		Actually, I think the count is now around 139 published books.
		Many, if not most, on the paranormal, things we talk about around Halloween, and frankly, a lot of other times.
		I certainly do.
		Brad will be back in a moment.
		Now, back to Brad Seiger, and we are going to begin taking calls for Brad Seiger in just a few moments.
		Brad, this from Cassandra in Sacramento.
		I'm a junior in college, and I'm currently taking a death and dying class.
		I didn't know they had those.
		Most of what your guest stated about his NDE, we actually went over in class.
		My question in his career supported his NDE or told him anything different than what he experienced.
		Does he fled?
		And did they give him any description of the afterlife?
		Is it really?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I'm calling it Heaven is our home.
		My favorite hymn as a child was, I'm but a stranger here, heaven helps me.
		It's all of our home, and I think that we are returning.
		So, I've been collecting, and I'm eager to hear from anyone who's listening right now.
		Sherry and I will be working on this book, putting it together.
		If you have an afterlife experience, either through a near-death experience, through a vision, through a profound dream, through a contact with a loved one, we'd love to hear it, certainly.
		To answer her question, not to evade that, the descriptions of the afterlife have a consistency in terms of the near-death experience and a pattern.
		And since she's studying it, she's familiar with that.
		Very often seeing the tunnels or being greeted by deceased loved ones or a light being, an angelic being, or a holy figure, such as Jesus, Moses, Mary, depending upon your religious orientation.
		And then I think the whole P, saying treasures here on earth, I think that could be interpreted as we are collecting our experiences.
		The afterlife seems to be, and I think we touched on this earlier, Art, it seems to be an individual thing.
		We may bring, this is one theory or thought, we may bring our own experiences with us and, in a sense, create our own corner of heaven, our own aspect of heaven.
		Because of my dear diff experience and the close personal friends, as well as, you know, I've written a number of books.
		I wrote the first book way back in the 60s.
		I call it The Mind Travelers.
		And then my One with the Light, which came out four or five years ago, which has created a lot of attention in the near-death experience, and sharing those.
		The unanimity then of the pattern that people go through.
		But the afterlife, that's it seems to be as though we collect our own treasures, our own experiences, and then there seems to be a time where there is a coming together.
		I'm also collecting memories or people who believe and feel strongly to coming into this lifetime again.
		Not to this lifetime again, but I mean coming back into the earth plane again.
		These things the cynic and the skeptic can laugh away or can find alternate explanations, I suppose.
		But I think the belief of the afterlife, the belief that we are more than physical beings, that we are non-physical multi-dependent, I think is so strongly ingrained.
		And I think that some people, and I get this accusation, well, you're anti-science, and that is absolutely not true.
		I think materialistic science is what we, perhaps a lot of people, object to.
		Materialistic, that it denies the non-physical aspect of our psyche.
		I think that's when people rebel.
		And certainly, I know many fine scientists who research and study and are, we have to say, believe, because there will never be the controlled, repeatable experience to satisfy the materialistic scientist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Precisely.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but I think, again, the knowing, the noetic aspect of the afterlife and of the near-death experiences and the past life memories that to me that life does go on.
		Her question about entities and so forth, an infant person's question is in the reality of an afterlife.
		And then the afterlife varies from being a mere image, but a more intensified, more vital image of our own world to an idealistic paradise.
		And we find that sort of in the Muslim, the Jewish, and the Christian faith.
		Others, you know, have the different levels of heaven and so forth.
		So it's a fascinating study, and I certainly would love to hear from anyone who would like to contribute to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the spirit of that, then, how does somebody write a letter to you or send email to you or somehow communicate with you?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		To Box, Post Office Box 434 Forest, and that's like a group of trees.
		So one R, Forest City, Iowa, 50436.
		And I would love to send people a questionnaire.
		If they like, please include a stamp self-addressed.
		I'll send you a book list, a questionnaire, the questionnaire referred to that I've been sending out since 1966 to now roughly 30,000 people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and getting some fabulous statistics.
		And also, since we last spoke art, I now have an 800 number where people can order the books.
		Oh, you do?
		I know when I said, I told you before that I was going to start handling them, and you said, oh, are you sure you want them?
unidentified		That's right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And I found out I just don't have time to be running a mail order business.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But I have someone who will do it for us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And any of the books, the one with the light I mentioned, or our awful thing in the attic, or any of our angel books, or whatever, people can acquire directly from 800-862-2923.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that a 24-hour number or during the day?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I think it's primarily during the day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So let me roll over all this and see if I've got it right.
		If they want to get your questionnaire and be part of this, I'm really glad you're doing this.
		Brad Seiger, box 434, Forest City, Iowa, 50436.
		And the book ordering number 1-800-862-2923.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember the facts we got earlier from what I discern to be a fundamentalist that talked about your nervous laugh?
		You remember that?
		I've got another facts here.
		I've got to say, Art, this is from Daryl.
		I've got to say, Art, that Brad Seiger, from what I've seen of him on tape, heard from him on radio, and gleaned through his writings, is a bright, distinguished, centered gentleman in the real sense of the word, that his laugh is the laugh of a man who is relaxed and knows himself.
		He definitely is someone to pay attention to.
		I think it was the factor who was nervous.
		Christians.
		I think so.
		I think that may be exactly the case.
		As you talk of this sort of thing, and you talk to a fundamentalist, or a fundamentalist listens, it produces a kind of nervous reaction that, if allowed to continue, can turn into outright anger.
		You notice that?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I certainly thank the recent factor for the kind words.
		One thing I never do, Art, is argue religion or politics.
		And I had practical experience with that.
		You see, in our family, we are split right down the middle.
		Half are Protestant, half are Roman Catholic, half are Democrats, and half are Republicans.
		We've never had an argument at a family gathering because it's understood those are two topics that are never discussed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Politics, different reasons.
		It just seems to me that an awful lot of what's going on politically now is just for American people, and there's a lot of people that agree with that.
		Let's take a few phone calls, and I've got a lot of other facts.
		There's just a lot of people want to talk to you.
		Great.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		Good morning, Brad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		This is John, and I'm in Bend, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Well, I just wanted to call and clear up something that you had mentioned to Brad Art, and I felt his answer to it was a little bit evasive, which is typical.
unidentified		I know you're not a religious show, but last few nights I've been listening, there's been lots, starting with, I think it was Harlet or Patsy or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		There's been a lot of religious talk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Well, you'd mentioned that the Bible states that two dots is a judgment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that was a fact.
unidentified		Yeah, and that's true.
		That's what the Bible says.
		That's statements that you can quote Bibles with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he's right.
unidentified		There's no statement or quote in the Bible from Jesus or any other source that wrote the Bible that upholds reincarnation in any way.
		The quote he quoted was when Jesus says, well, who do you say I am?
		And they say, well, some say you're Elijah.
		Elijah never died.
		Elijah was taken up by God straight to heaven.
		He never died physically.
		And he's the only one.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Now, you aren't taking any of that on faith, are you?
unidentified		I'm taking it all on the fact that the Bible is written.
		And, of course, I take it all on faith because the Bible is a fact.
		Well, yeah, it is.
		It's, after all, all religions.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Another point of view, then, could they?
unidentified		You can have another point of view.
unidentified		It doesn't make it right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But no, that's right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That wouldn't be a correct point of view in your eyes.
unidentified		Well, there's only one correct because there's only one truth.
unidentified		If you have many truths no matter how many people you have, then you have no truth.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, from your point of view, you are always right, and you're always going to win, and God bless you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there is no arguing.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		There's no arguing with you.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		There's no discussion with you.
unidentified		You know, you can argue all you want, but that doesn't.
		I never argue.
		I never argue.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You've heard me say, I never argue.
unidentified		You just did.
		And that's another thing, you know.
		Usually when I hear people say that, because I was brought up with parents who said, oh, you never argue religion or politics.
		Well, people that are unwilling to argue religion or politics are people that are unsure.
		They're afraid that someone might convince them otherwise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A better way, maybe it's pointless to argue with someone of color might be that you're the one attempting here to promote, in effect, an argument.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And to me, that would indicate that internally your own beliefs are challenged.
unidentified		No, not my own beliefs are challenged.
		I promote an argument because argument is discourse.
		And argument is the only way that opposing ideas discuss that they can make their own choice.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, discussion works, but arguments never work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		No, I absolutely agree with that.
		And he, because of his own insecurities, he's trying to convince himself.
		If he was truly, absolutely convinced and had rock-solid faith, he wouldn't have even picked up the phone.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I would agree with that, but then that's our opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
		All right.
		Watling Sucker, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good.
		My name's Alan.
		I'm from Central Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A question for Brad.
unidentified		Supernatural experiences, spirits of wood.
		From growing up, I grew up in a very old home that was, at one time, was in the town I was from.
		He was a practicing physician.
		The house, my parents bought in the early 50s.
		I have four other brothers that we grew up in.
		Alcoholic at the time, and a pretty violent one, as far as busting up the house, coming home drunk and late.
		The thing was, there was a lot of activity in this house.
		The house has six bedrooms upstairs with two bathrooms.
		Downstairs was an actual practicing room with a preparation kitchen because people stayed there.
		Mostly elderly.
		They would visit the doctor.
		He would tend to them.
		And quite a few had passed away in the house.
		The main porch had four doors going into it.
		Two, where you would see the receptionist, going and wait, and going to the doctor's room, which eventually turned into my parents' main bedroom downstairs.
		The two doors were identical.
		Very strong oak wood, a lot of glass in it.
		The one rattled, very loose pane of glass.
		I mean, if you walk through the house on the wood floors, my father was a very big man.
		He sit up around.
		This was always going on.
		The constant doorknob turning.
		Many occasions we would be sitting and we'd hear my dad bell her out, Wait a minute, I'm in a John, give me a minute.
		And somebody would literally be turning a doorknob and nobody would be upstairs.
		On another occasion, what happened with my girlfriend, which is now my wife, we were upstairs getting some heavy petting.
		It was pretty late at night.
		Don't want to get into that.
		And a very, very thunderous, it sounded like somebody dropped a bowerbell step with a couple hundred pounds of weights in it, shook the entire house.
		My mom met me halfway up the stairs with my girlfriend.
		We were decent.
		And she's like, what are you kids doing?
		She thought the bed had busted down.
		We were working around.
		Oh, boy.
		And I said, well, what are you doing?
		And we looked and looked.
		Nothing was out of place.
		I'm asking you, because I'm asking now, because my parents moved to Florida.
		My older brother lives in a house now with two other boys.
		There's no activities now.
		There's no, my brother knew what was going on in the house.
		He grew up there.
		He heard the footsteps.
		He's seen the occasional glancing of somebody in a mirror at you, which was, I was always scared of it.
		I never had a mirror in my bedroom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, the haunting ended when you left?
unidentified		Yeah, well, sure it did.
		I mean, I wasn't in the house anymore.
		Neither were my other brothers.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But it's not going on with your brothers still living there.
unidentified		No, but I'm wondering, could it have been channeled in because of my father's violent background, his alcoholism in the house, his violence channel in entities or happenings?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You may have heard earlier someone called in and said they would like to have a haunting experience.
		Were you listening then?
		Well, I think one of the things, an area that is loaded with this type of phenomenon is an old hospital or, as you say, a doctor's office where people have died where people have been ill.
		There's something about the emotions of pain, fear that linger.
		And as we said, you know, somehow we don't understand it yet.
		Perhaps we will someday and can tune into it just like we can into a C D or a cassette.
		But somehow the atmosphere becomes so charged in those areas.
		And then one thing, I mean, I found this in many, many haunting situations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll have to pick up the alcoholic father.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Again, that could definitely set things in motion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll be right back.
unidentified		Watching it so bold as you turn around today.
		Stay now, we'll be right back.
		To reach Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033.
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		This is Coast to Ghost AM with Art Bell.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I just had one.
		I just had an experience that scared the hell out of me.
		Coming out of this last break, as I was, you know, as I was rolling the bumper music going into this last break, I took my headphones off.
		I have a headset that I use.
		And I started to turn around, and there was a sharp bang.
		I mean, it's like somebody banged my door, you know, like, boom, like that.
		And I went, and I quickly opened the door, and there was absolutely nobody there.
		And so I went into the other room and woke up Ramona and asked her if she had just done something.
		And she came out of sleep and said, no, I'm asleep.
		And I looked at my three cats, the only other possibility, and they were all soundly asleep on the bed with her.
		So I don't know what it was.
		Maybe it was a gigantic creak, but I have never, ever, ever experienced anything like that in here before.
		That scared the hell out of me.
		I mean, it wasn't a discreet little boom.
		It wasn't like an airplane producing, you know, a sound barrier break, that kind of thing.
		It was on my door, and it was a gigantic bang, and I didn't like it at all.
		But that shows you what happens when you start getting in these moods.
		Brad Steiger is my guest, and we'll get back to him in a moment.
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unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Back Now to Brad Steiger.
		Brad, are you there?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you were on the phone.
		Did you happen to hear what I just said?
		Yes.
		That scared the hell out of me.
		You know, and it brought to mind-I mean, that was a sharp bang on my door, and there was nobody around to make it.
		And I went and checked, and I locked both doors, double-locked.
		But it really, really scared me, Brad.
		And I kind of wonder, you know, you described earlier encountering an entity and taking your hand and putting it into the middle of the entity.
		Now, based on what I just experienced, now I haven't had a lot of these.
		This is pretty unusual for me.
		If there was something that manifested before me, the last thing in the entire world that I would do would be to put my hand into the entity.
		What I think I would probably do is let my feet take me as fast as they could in the opposite direction, just based on how scared I got over that crash on my day.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you see, I'm like a botanist, and I've just heard this rare flower is blooming, and it only blooms for a minute every 100 years.
		Well, I want to be there.
		Well, this is that kind of opportunity for me, you see.
		Now, the bang, was it anything like our friend in Ohio describes as like a big weight falling to the floor?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was exactly the way I just made the noise on my table.
		It was just like this, Brad.
		I'm not kidding.
		I took my headphones off, I started to turn around, and on my door it went like that.
		I said, what the hell?
		And I was sure it was Ramona, and so I went and I woke the poor lady up.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Now, you might remember one time I was talking about working with someone who had poltergeist phenomena.
		And you said, one of your commercials is we're all electric things.
		Well, we are electromagnetic things.
		And you remember I described how that poltergeist followed the telephone line all the way from where they were to where I was and began tearing up my office.
		This is an electromagnetic, certainly one facet of it is electromagnetic.
		What our friend in Ohio was describing, and we just started to get into it when the commercial came, the break came.
		Again, his father was a big man.
		They were children.
		The fact that he was alcoholic, one may assume that he went into rages or maybe he accused them of different things or he was argumentative.
		And contrary to one of our callers, arguments do not really bring about harmony.
		They shatter the harmony.
		So here's the emotions.
		That would trigger explosions within that family, within that home.
		Those dormant emotions of pain and suffering and illness from the doctor's office would be activated in a way we don't understand, but somehow then, yes, it became contagious.
		The activities that went on in that office, so those echoes of former pain and discomfort were activated by his father's alcoholic condition.
		Earlier, I said that's why I'm so really try to be firm in talking to young people about alcohol abuse and drug abuse.
		That's when the spiritual parasites can really get in there.
		Well, in this particular case, it just served as a focus.
		It just served as a conduit for all these past emotions to enter in, which do somehow, in some cases, sound like explosions.
		I've been in numerous haunting situations where there's just a bang, there's just a crack, almost like thunder or lightning.
		And it's almost as if it's coming from one dimension into another.
		It's like breaking the sound barrier, to use an analogy, as it comes in.
		So again, when the father moved away, when he moved away, and probably the brother, let's hope then, is a balanced person, probably with the example of his father.
		Maybe he doesn't drink, and there's harmony once again there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all I know is that bang scared the hell out of you.
		Yeah, yeah.
		All right, listen, here's something from a pastor, Pastor Bradley, who's a listener to this program and chimes in from time to time.
		Dear Art, I'm a born-again Christian.
		I've had a near-death experience as well as other paranormal experiences.
		I found what Brad was saying about alcohol and drug abuse very interesting.
		I've been saying this very thing myself for quite a few years now.
		I don't agree with everything that he says, but I do find it very interesting.
		And so he's going to send you information on his NDE.
		And it's on the way.
		So he agrees with you regarding drug and alcohol abuse and that sort of thing.
		And then I have one other comment on the Bible, and I'm not trying to bring it back to that point.
		But one thing, and this is, we've talked about it on the show over the last couple of days.
		I've always had this problem with organized religion, Brad, and the fact that we, according to most organized religions, are supposed to have this great fear of God.
		To me, it doesn't seem like God is supposed to be a fearful character.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, to me, Jesus speaks of the God of love, and that's the God that I feel obeisance to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you are.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		The attitude of the pastor, again, as I said, I don't know why it's always so confusing for people to comprehend this.
		In my own family, you know, we have many born-again Christians.
		We have harmony because we respect each other as individuals and recognize that we can differ on certain points.
		If there was unanimity, I mean, how many sects of the Christian church are there in the United States?
		I mean, there are hundreds.
		If there was one Christian faith, you know, but there isn't, which indicates that even in the most devout, traditionally religious people, there are different points of view.
		So I think if we can practice love and respect for one another, and like I say, see the face of God in everyone, then the one caller who said, well, that was cowardly in our family not to discuss or to argue.
		We discuss, but it's pointless to try to convince a rock that it's a raindrop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		If that drop of rain can form ice or can evaporate, it is willing to explore other forms.
		But when someone is totally rock set, it is a waste of time to argue.
		You can only say, that is your truth.
		I respect your truth.
		I'm happy for you that you feel fulfilled in your truth.
		But it may not be totally my truth.
		The pastor who said he agrees maybe one thing, not in another.
		Wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's an open mind.
		Here's something that I think will surprise you.
		For those who thought Brad was telling a story about Egypt, listen to this, Brad.
		Dear Art, I can verify what Brad said about the girl disappearing from the king's chamber as I was on the tour with him.
		As a matter of fact, it was my tour company, Joy Tours International.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As he said, we later found out that this woman became apparently overwhelmed and emotionally distraught and slipped out unnoticed and disappeared into the desert to be rescued by an Egyptian family.
		The sound that Brad described was truly phenomenal.
		It began as Brad touched the finger of another tour member and would vary in intensity and pitch as the sound passed finger to finger around the room.
		It made the hair stand up on the back of my neck.
		I've been in the king's chamber over 20 times.
		This was the only time anything like this ever happened.
		Tell Brad hello.
		Joy in Phoenix.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Joy.
		It's so great to hear from you again.
		And thanks for calling in and verifying.
		And I hope your life is as blessed as the wonderful person you are.
		She's a marvelous tour, guide, and just a very, very spiritual person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is an amazing story.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, there were so many things that happened.
		I don't even know if Joy knows this.
		I went back to my hotel room one time, and I opened the door, and I thought I was in a strange room.
		There was a, obviously, judging by certain physical characteristics, an Egyptian woman, or at least a Mid-Eastern woman.
		And I opened the door and she was so angry, and I said, I apologize.
		I'm sorry.
		I'm sorry.
		I'm terribly sorry.
		I must have the wrong room.
		But I thought, you know, I have my key.
		And then the woman disappeared before my eyes.
		Really?
		So, again, I walked in at the wrong time in one dimension, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Brad, these are civilizations, as you well know from having been to Egypt, that are far older than ours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if the presence of human beings in civilizations, you know, for hundreds or thousands of years, thousands of years in this case, even before Christ, if their presence and their absence as we come and go as mortal beings generates these spirits and these things, then these very ancient civilizations, you might imagine, would have more paranormal occurrences than we have.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think there was something about the focus of the Egyptians, the ancient Egyptians, on life after death.
		I suppose almost more than any other philosophy, our concepts of life after death are influenced by the ancient Egyptians in subtle ways that a lot of people just refuse to recognize.
		And I certainly, I remember when Joy proposed going to Egypt, my first reaction was, the Egypt I love is the Egypt that's no longer there.
		And it took some convincing on her part.
		And then after I got there, I thought, but that Egypt is still here.
		It is still here.
		Time, space, there's something art, I know you and Ramona must have experienced this.
		There's a timelessness there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		The Egyptians were the first that we know of that appeared to understand something about an afterlife that we still have not grasped in times.
		No, there's no question about it.
		No question about it.
		Okay.
		First time caller align.
		You're on the air with Brad Steiger.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Howdy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Howdy, you're going to have to speak up good and loud for us, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am from Fairbanks, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Way up there.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		North to Alaska.
unidentified		I had a couple questions.
unidentified		Now, Mr. Bell, that noise on your door may have been, I don't know, did you check out the detail on the front of it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did I do what?
unidentified		Check out the detail on your door.
		Somebody may have thrown something at it, you know, as a prank or something.
		You know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I haven't looked now that you mention it, but it was just a, you know, there was no question about it.
		We're not talking about a, you know, you get bangs sometimes that rattled a house or something like that.
		It wasn't the house.
		It was the door.
		And it wasn't a knock or a crack or a creak.
		This was a boom, and it scared the heck out of me.
unidentified		Yeah, I'd look for rocks anywhere around your orchard like that.
unidentified		But now, what is this guy's name again?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This guy's name is Brad Seiger.
unidentified		All right, sorry about that.
		Brad, this spiritual enity that came up to you and grabbed your hand and put it inside of himself or I put my hand inside of it.
		Oh, okay.
		Did you feel it?
		Mm-hmm.
		Mm-hmm.
		Okay.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		It made my hand tingle.
		It was ice cold.
		It was tingly.
unidentified		Ooh, okay.
		Also, another question.
		Are you a Roman Catholic?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Am I?
unidentified		Yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Because I heard you talk something about that, you know.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, I said I was brought to a Roman Catholic hospital in my near-death experience, and my first, my ministry, so to speak, began in that hospital, when the nuns asked me to testify or to help the grieving parents at the deathbedside of their daughter.
unidentified		Oh, okay, because I was kind of wondering, because I was, you know, kind of wanting to know a couple things, you know, about biblical things about the abominable church sitting upon seven hills and the.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You must be talking about the Vatican, huh?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You're talking in the book of Revelation.
unidentified		Yeah, also about the guy with the mark of the beast upon his, you know.
unidentified		The Catholic Church in Rome sits upon seven hills.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, there you are.
		Okay.
		Well, I don't know what to say about that.
		I was at the Vatican here a couple of weeks ago, and it didn't seem too abominable.
		As a matter of fact, I actually got to see the Pope.
		It was really incredible.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes, incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I walked in, Brad.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You're probably a fan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I walked in, and here is this giant crowd.
		I mean, as we walked in to the Vatican, there's this giant crowd, and we turn around and ask somebody, what's going on?
		And they said, you mean you don't know?
		The Pope's coming out in five minutes.
		That's luck.
		A wild card line, you're on the air with Brad Seiger.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hi, this is Jan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jan.
unidentified		Where are you?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jan.
unidentified		I'm in Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And last November, I died of cardiac arrest.
		And because I lived close to Valley Hospital, they were able to revive me.
		But when they got me to the hospital, they did a brain scan.
		And I was brain dead.
		That was the diagnosis.
		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
unidentified		Yeah, apparently you have to have a score of such and such in order for you to have enough brain activity to operate your body.
unidentified		I was even below that threshold.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Gee.
unidentified		And showing all of the physical attributes of being brain dead as well.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That is incredible.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So, of course, I was in a coma.
		The prognosis was that I would never come out of the coma.
		They were talking already on the fourth day.
		Might as well pull the plug.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tell you what.
		Being the master of interruption, I'm sorry.
		Jan.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Not now, Arn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, now.
		But we're going to hold Jan on the line.
		Okay, Jan?
		That's fine.
		It's a perfect, we hang them up place.
		Ready to pull the plug?
		A dead brain scan?
		And Jan's here talking to us.
		This bears listening to, and so we shall when we return from the break.
		I'm going to look for rocks.
		From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
		My guest is Brad Steiger, and we'll be right back.
unidentified		My guest is Brad Steiger.
		When the world is in the heart, and through the bad boy, and love into the dawning of the age.
		To talk with Art Bell from west of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, dial 1-800-618-8255.
		That's 1-800-618-8255.
		Now again, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope it's the age of Aquarius.
		No marks on the doors, no rocks.
		No explanation.
		You know how I said it was so much fun to be scared?
		I may be revising that opinion anytime now.
		Oh, boy.
		Back to Brad and company in a moment of time.
		And tell them Art Bell told you to call.
		Well, all right.
		Right now, I'm sorry for the interruption, though it was a good way to hang you all up for a few minutes.
		Brad, we're back on the air, and ma'am, you're back on the air.
		And to recap, you had an NDE for sure.
		You had brain death?
unidentified		Well, yeah, it was a cardiac arrest.
		And so, of course, when you have a cardiac arrest, you're just like immediately dead.
		How old are you, Jan?
		At the time, I was 43.
		I'm 43.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		So very young, then.
unidentified		Yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		To have that.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And so apparently, I think they took the time from when the 911 call came in to the time that the medics arrived, and it was like over nine minutes, and you're brain dead after six or something like that.
		So when they got me to the hospital, they didn't even take me to cardiac.
		They took me to immediately for the brain scan.
		And of course, like I said, came out and told my boyfriend and my roommate that I was brain dead.
		So my family flew in, family members flew in, and like I said, about day four, they're going, gosh, you know, it might as well pull the plug.
		Even if she ever comes out of the coma, she'll never come off the respirator.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You're a vegetable.
unidentified		I'm a vegetable.
		Right.
		Now, interestingly enough, because I was single, it's still up to my parents to make that decision.
		So they were kind of on the phone with my poor parents at that point.
		When I came out of the coma, the neurologist came in.
		They started asking me questions like, what's your name?
		I told them my name.
		They just couldn't believe that.
		You know, count forwards, count backwards, do math.
		They had me doing math.
		I could do everything.
		And the neurologists just threw up their hands and said, it's a miracle.
		I mean, there was no way medical science could call it anything but.
		But what was interesting is as I was coming in and out that first day out of the coma, I was telling them different things that had happened to me.
		Either it was during that time I was dead, and then probably also during the time I was in the coma.
		And one of the things I told Diana was, she said, well, you know, can you remember anything about what you were doing when you were in the coma?
		And I said, I was listening to Art Bell.
		So that's why I just thought you were talking near death.
		And I had honestly never listened to your program.
		I was aware of you just because I'm in the Las Vegas area.
		And a friend of mine from Montana, back, gosh, it must have been a year or more ago, you had a creature.
		There was a picture of a creature on your net site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And a friend of mine from Montana called and said, you've got to look this creature up.
		You know, hit artbell.com and, you know, go to this creature thing.
		And so I did.
		But that was the only time that I'd had any contact with you.
		And like I said, I'd never heard your radio program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you came out of a coma and they asked you and you said you've been listening to Art Bell College.
unidentified		Listening to Art Bell.
unidentified		I am not pulling your leg.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Did you have any memory?
unidentified		No.
		Now, the things that I did recall, I had a near-death experience when I was 27.
		I was anesthetized for the first and last time.
		I had an allergic reaction to anesthesia.
		That time, I went out of body.
		And I watched him do the code blue, which was pretty interesting when they put the paddles on me.
		Your body flops around.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		So you were like in a corner of the room looking around.
unidentified		Well, I said I was above and I was looking down.
		It was a real strange feeling, and I felt kind of silly about watching my body sort of flopping around, you know.
		That time, you know, I watched him do the code blue or whatever they do.
		They couldn't get my heart started.
		The anesthesiologist came in and said it was an allergic reaction to the muscle relaxant.
		You know, they put cause of death, allergic reaction to muscle relaxant.
		And that time when I, and I, and like you said, I was very calm.
		I understood completely I was dead.
		And I really had no fear.
		I was totally calm.
		I briefly felt regret that my young son would grow up without a mother.
		I felt sorry for my husband who was going to have to hear the bad news at the time.
		But other than that, I was really okay about it.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Did you see a design geometric or anything?
unidentified		I don't recall that.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Or a light beam.
unidentified		Didn't go as far as the light or any of that.
		Now this time, and it's interesting because I have visited with a woman just by chance out of Arizona, has a publishing company there, that she had had more than one near-death experience because she had called on some business and they said, oh, she died of a cardiac, but she came back.
		So she called out and said, wow, I've been there twice.
		She went out of body her first time, and she'd been there second.
		She had that same, you know, and the only way she could explain is, well, maybe you just go to the next level of it quicker, or you don't go through that, or I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, this is quite remarkable, and I think you should be communicating this to Brad.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I hope you will send either put it on cassette or type it up if you can.
		We've just loved to have that for the files.
		It's really a remarkable case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Did you get my address earlier?
unidentified		No, I didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Almost no problem.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a pencil?
		Sure.
		All right, Brad?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Post office box 434.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Forest, like a group of trees, Forest City, Iowa, IA, 50436.
unidentified		Okay.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And anyone else listening who has had a similar experience, we just really loved to receive it.
unidentified		The one place I did go this time was a place that kind of just went into infinity.
		It like cut glass, sort of in mosaics.
		It gave you this sense of just going on into infinity.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, that could be similar to what I was describing.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		As I said, have you ever seen fractal geometry?
unidentified		Yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Or there's a clothing design.
		You sometimes see something on turkeys' rugs.
		Sometimes you see Paisley, Paisley Prince, where it kind of swirls around.
unidentified		Well, this was more like a clear get glass, but cut into crystals.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's often described, too.
unidentified		Yeah, but set into patterns that, you know, like if it was a flat glass, you would think it was stained glass.
		But it's like that, only it's not flat glass, and it's not colored.
		It's, like I said, it's multifaceted.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know it's hard to put into words, but I think the more you're talking, the more it sounds like what I saw, what others have described.
unidentified		It was really brilliant.
		And I was aware that there were beams of light.
		You could see them almost as sharp as like laser beams of this bright light coming through.
		And I was aware that that was communications.
		And then it suddenly occurred to me, well, this is what we call prayer.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I could discern which ones were coming in on my behalf, which was interesting.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
unidentified		People say, well, did you meet people or talk to people?
		I said, no.
		But I was.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But in a sense, you had an awareness of it.
unidentified		I was very aware.
		And it's interesting because when you're here, your thoughts are private.
		When you're there, because you're not communicating with language or anything, and you're communicating with thought, because you're thinking, and everything you're thinking, you're aware that it's communicating.
		But what I did, what I found interesting was I was aware also that I was brain dead.
		And I was communicating that.
		I was aware that I was brain dead.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because I was looking down on this battered, bloody little 11-year-old boy when I was looking down there.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And I was aware that, you know, he probably wasn't going to make it.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And so I specifically communicated that I wanted to come back, but that I also wanted my brain back and that I wanted all the memories and all the intellect and everything that was on the tape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's astounding.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's very interesting.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Please then write this or if it's easier for you, put it on a cassette tape.
		Sometimes it's easier to render something like this up on cassette.
		And please get it to Brad, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I really appreciate it, Jan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much for the call.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, that great case.
unidentified		Great case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And she actually requested to get her faculties back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She actually knew she was brain dead.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's a very interesting case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Woof.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And she told it so both in an articulate and a very calm and matter-of-fact way.
unidentified		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sat here listening to the two of you almost feeling left out, but I, you know, I don't necessarily wish to have a near-death experience with them.
		East of the Rockies, you're on here with Brad Siger.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, Richard?
unidentified		I'm in Houston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Richard.
unidentified		I very much enjoy the show.
unidentified		And, Brad, I'll tell you, I'd love to meet you.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe that'll happen one day.
unidentified		Yeah, I hope so.
		When I was 14, my mother died of cancer.
		And my dad was an alcoholic, and I just, you know, thought it was the end of the world.
		And I slipped the gun out of the house and went to the woods, and I was going to commit suicide.
		And I'll never forget it.
		And I'm a born-again Christian.
		And anyway, I was sitting there in the tree and had my finger on the trigger, had the shell in the chamber, and this blue light.
		I mean, this is in broad daylight.
		This blue light just come, and all I could see was an image of a veil, just a snow-white veil.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Richard, that's beautiful.
unidentified		Yeah, and I tried to pull the trigger, and the gun wouldn't fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that is.
unidentified		And then I heard this voice tell me that my mother was in a better place, you know, and that things would be all right.
		And they have.
		I gave my life to Christ just a couple of days after that, and I've been a Christian the whole time.
		Well, I just turned 59.
		But, you know, he was talking about the blue light, and I've heard other people talk about that.
		So I firmly believe it was an angel.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, the blue light came to me and gave me the book, Revelation, the Divine Fire, that I wrote, which is about the revelatory experience and experiences like you're talking about.
		And the story that the lady just told about Art Bell, she heard she was listening to Art Bell when she was in a coma, but she'd never listened to him in reality.
		I've had more people say that during surgery or anesthesia, they were shown the cover of the book, Revelation, Divine Fire, and told to read it.
		And again, I have only their testimony, but these are total strangers to me who wrote and said that's when it came to them.
		So that blue light, I agree with you, Richard.
		That is an angel of the Lord and bringing light.
		And God bless you for sharing.
		That's a wonderful story.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Thank you very much.
		Thank you, Sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Suicide.
		Suicide.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a tough one.
		Sherry was suicide counselor for many, many years and just kind of burned out on it.
		She's such a loving, sensitive person, and she had to deal with that, you know, handling the crisis line and so forth.
		That is such a tough one.
		Again, judge not, but life is so precious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And short.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And short.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think we may have talked of this before.
		I'm not sure.
		My wife modified my own views on suicide.
		I always maintained stoically that if I had some sort of fatal disease, rather than go through the pain, I wouldn't hesitate to take my life toward the end stages.
		I wouldn't.
		I saw no reason for people to suffer.
		And Ramona said, no, that isn't the way it's supposed to happen.
		You've got to play the handout that you were dealt.
		And if you don't play it out, you're going to end up playing it out later again in some other way.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It made so much sense to me, Brad, that it slowly, it changed my view on the whole thing.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's my philosophy, too.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But again, judge not, because you can never truly judge another person's pain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I wonder spiritually, you know, when we're talking about spirits and we're talking about ghosts and we're talking about things that remain, whether suicide is such a traumatic end that it frequently causes the kind of things that we've been talking about.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Suicide and murder, certainly in my experience, are at the basis of the majority of hauntings that I've investigated.
		In one home, the family Would see the reenactment of the murder.
		Probably once a month, they would see a man.
		It was from what we could piece together: a man, his mistress, the man murders his wife, or the mistress is looking on.
		And that evil tableau was played out for them repeatedly.
		By the time we got to this, and this was an old lumber baron's home, the family was living in like three rooms out of like a 25-room house because the house was just infested with evil.
		It's a house that I've seen, the experiences that we had in that house, I must say, I've seen in my dreams several times.
		I know there was something happened there.
		We made contact with something there that still left kind of a seed in my psyche that I have to kind of replay and exercise from time to time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have nightmares?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		When I was a young boy, I developed the facility of stepping outside of my dreams.
		I suffered from nightmares as a young boy, and then suddenly I stopped.
		I remember the Frankenstein monster, other hideous beings were closing in on me.
		And of course, the tradition, oh, I had a gun, but it wouldn't fire.
		And all of a sudden, I stopped, and I was probably, judging by where we were living, I was probably eight or nine years old.
		And I said, hey, wait, this is my dream.
		And the monsters all said, yes, this is just a play we're enacting.
		I said, okay, then, from now on, when I pull the trigger, since it is just a play, you fall over.
		They said, right, because it is your dream.
		You are.
		So from the age of nine, I mean, that was, so whenever I approach the area where I might be, I just say, I step out of it and say, this is my dream.
		I will watch it to see what I will learn from it, what I will gain from it.
		And certainly I've written chapters.
		I've written everything in this particular state because I use the dream state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would like to learn how to do that because I live my dreams as, in fact, as I wake up, I have to assure myself that it wasn't real, you know, in the waking up process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I would love to be able to learn how to live outside a dream and watch it dispassionately.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		For creativity, it's just, oh, I mean, when I was taking confirmation class and I was confirmed Lutheran and we had to practically memorize the Bible and the teachings of Martin Luther and so forth and be able to recite them, I would read it once or twice, Art, and then I would go to sleep and then I would continue what that other part of me would continue to go over it so that the next morning, Saturday morning for confirmation class, I had it down cold.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I did the same thing knowledge with my tests and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet you didn't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Lutheran also.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I did the same thing.
		But I would really, really, really love to learn because though I don't dream frequently, when I do, it's very intense and very real, very real.
		I would just love to be able to disconnect from that and enjoy it at some different level.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		I don't...
		I've tried to...
		I tried to put a tape together to teach people how to do it.
		It's something maybe if I were working in a workshop or something and we really had the time to go into a relaxing state and so forth.
		Because it's easy for me to say it, but it's hard for people then to practice it.
		It was just something that, because I used to have terrible nightmares as a small child.
		And this one night I just stopped and said, hey, wait, whose dream is this?
		And the monsters all agreed.
		It was my dream.
		So it's been a marvelous release for me.
		I mean, when I'm stressful and, you know, I'm like Billy Jack.
		I'll go in and clean out a saloon full of bad guys, you know, just to release tension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm going to work on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm going to have a talk with my monsters if I can manage it.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I love it.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Whose dream is it anyway?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You'll fall down when I shoot.
		I love it.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		All right, Brad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cold height.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Brad Seiger is my guest, author of 139 books.
		139 books.
		That constantly amazes me.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast A.M. America Outdoors Features, the flawless delivery of first-glass fidelities.
unidentified		Excuse me.
unidentified		Got something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me, down the wrong tube there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And 100 KSTP.
unidentified		The End
		Oh, my God.
		Art Bell is taking your calls on the Wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		That's Area Code 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers may reach Art at Area Code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what a program it has been.
		Brad Seiger is my guest.
		He'll be back with you, your questions, your calls in a moment.
		What you're listening to, of course, is Cusco.
		It's Apuramax 3, Nature, Spirit, and Pride.
		And I've been playing it for some time.
		Finally, you can get it.
		But The deal that I've got for you is going to expire in a couple of days.
		I said a couple of days.
		November 1st, it's over.
		You can order Cusco's new Apura Max 3 album: $15.98 for a CD or $9.98 for a cassette.
		Here's the number.
		Don't ignore it.
		1-800-562-8283.
		That's 1-800-562-8283.
		And if you're one of the first 25 this night, your album or CD will be autographed by Cusco's own Michael Holm.
		Now, you can also order the special limited edition 3 CD box set.
		This one contains all of Apuramac.
		Apuramac 1, 2, and 3, and they all go directly to the soul.
		$39.95, along with an awesome autographed poster of the Buffalo Spirit Warrior featured on the cover of Apuramac 3.
		So, it's almost over.
		Once again, Cusco's new Apuramac 3, $15.98 CD $9.98 cassette, or the limited edition 3 CD Apuramac 3, just $39.95.
		Here's the number again.
		Don't blow this off.
		It's just about all over.
		1-800-562-8283.
unidentified		away.
unidentified		The End Oh, boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is some piece of music.
		I've got a kind of a special piece of music at the bottom of the hour, too, that I'll tell you about toward the bottom of the hour.
		Listen, something interesting occurred.
		Not that you heard it because it occurred during the break.
		But again, I've got a very interesting telephone system here, the most modern of the modern, that takes a guest and locks the line in so nothing can go wrong.
		But sometime during the break, Brad Steiger just disappeared.
		Now I got him back.
		I've got him back now.
		But sometime during the break, I don't know when, he disappeared.
		Fortunately, before the break was over, I happened to look down and noticed the line was dead.
		And Brad says it just went to some sort of recording or something.
		Weird.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Weird.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This has been an unusual show all the way around.
		unusual night.
		Maybe there is Oh, most definitely.
		Really?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Most definitely.
		I mean, you can trace it all the way back to, you know, the Celtic observation of the dead and the Day of the Dead in Spanish cultures, and then, of course, the Catholic Church assuming it to All Hallows Eve, All Saints' Night.
		But there's something about October, and there's something about October 31st that is significant in so many ways.
		It seems to be a window area kind of night.
		It seems to be a doorway to another dimension and has been.
		Maybe it's connected with the harvest.
		Maybe it's connected with things that we can't even dream about at this point.
		But it is a significant night.
		There's no question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it always your understanding, it was mine anyway, that the Catholic Church was not overly excited about astrology?
unidentified		Hmm.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		There was a time, of course, when every educated person had to know astrology, and that would include...
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		There will be scholars who will say that astrology and astronomy were both taught as equal disciplines, and that an educated person, which would include the clergy most of the time throughout our evolution spiritually and religiously, would be part of something that they would learn.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, on this recent trip we made, we went into the Vatican, as I mentioned, in fact, the Sistine Chapel.
		And as we came into the Sistine Chapel, or the entrance that leads toward it, there was a gigantic globe encased in glass.
		And on this globe, there were nothing but the signs of the zodiac right in the middle of the Vatican.
		And I've got a photograph, in fact, of my wife pointing at Libra, which is her sign.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right, I've seen that on your website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you are.
		Right in the middle of the Vatican.
		I was really, really surprised about that.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Now, at a time, as I say, it was a very respected discipline that you could not be considered an educated person unless you knew astrology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I've gone to dredge from you one story which the audience, particularly the new one, has got to hear, which just scared the fire out of me.
		This involves, of course, your trip down to a basement.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you tell that?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Surely, surely.
		It's again one that I reflect upon many, many times.
		This was a situation where it was a journalist, a journalist in the area who had received reports or saw the police reports about this particular house, had done some research and had invited us to investigate.
		At least two grisly murders had taken place.
		One in the garage, the other in the basement.
		At the time we were there, prior to our arrival, we were told that blood flowed out of the faucets in the basement, that there was a strange face on the basement, and that the back room where one of the murders had taken place was filled with a great variety of eerie haunting phenomena.
		Plus, faces appeared in the mirror, particularly that of a burly, large burly man with a thick beard.
		The principals in the home were a teenage girl, a young boy, the mother, the father.
		When we arrived, first of all, we turned on the faucet and we saw that it was just rusty water, which could look like blood, especially if all kinds of other eerie paranormal phenomena were happening around you.
unidentified		Sure.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		We were a very difficult time getting the family to even go with us to the basement.
		They were so frightened of it.
		The face was a doll's face that had somehow been impressed into one of the walls.
		So eerie, but, you know, again, nothing to be frightened of.
		But then there was the back room.
		Now, this was a very old home, and it was apparent what they had done somewhere along the line is just cover the dirt floor with cement.
		So it was very uneven and had rough ridges here and there from, you know, kind of an amateurish job of pouring cement over and over dirt.
		Now the back room, the door, in order to close it, you had to push it uphill.
		Now, we've all been in situations where a door swings so easily open.
unidentified		Sure.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But seldom does a door swing close.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Now, especially this one had to go uphill, so to speak, and had to go over one of those rough cement ridges.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you had to sort of help it close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Push it up, yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And then you would hit that rough spot and then give it another push.
		Well, while I was in investigating and recording impressions and letting the medium record impressions and I was taping it all, I noticed that, and again, I mentioned my friend Glenn, who was with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		He noticed that and tapped me that the door was closing.
		The door was going uphill and was pushing itself over that rough ridge and was trying to close.
		Now, Glenn and the other man with us, the journalist, each weighed a good 200 pounds.
		Art, it took their combined strength to keep that door from closing.
		It was just literally bowing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Now, when I walked out, I said, rather arrogantly, I must admit, in retrospect, I said, all right, if the damn door wants to close, close it and lock it, which they did.
		We then went upstairs.
		We were standing in the kitchen discussing various situations.
		All of a sudden, there was, there's an engineer explosion, just BAM.
		And it was apparent that that door was just blasted right off its hinges.
		Then there was the sound of like King Pong coming up those basement stairs.
		Boom, boom, boom.
		And then there was another explosive sound, and all of us, which would have been about seven or eight of us, were lifted into the air and then dropped down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Into the air.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Into the air.
		Now that definitely got my attention as well as everyone else.
		And I really, at that point, Art had to really start revising some of my very pat intellectual theories about haunting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in other words, here we don't have a loop going around.
		Right, right.
		We have somebody getting lifted into the air.
		We have banging up steps.
		We have doors shutting.
		This is real-world scary stuff.
unidentified		Yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		So, first of all, then we have an intelligence that is going to, okay, you want to mess with my room?
		I'll close you in it.
		That's resisted.
		And then I obviously threw down the gauntlet.
		And it came after me.
		Everyone else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you done that since?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		No, not in that way.
		I did one situation, and this was quoted, I remember a British author wrote a book.
		The name escapes me now, but it was on paranormal phenomena.
		And the last chapter is called the Steiger Effect.
		Because in one situation where I was surrounded by poltergeist activity and books swirling around and papers flying, and this time I was annoyed, and I just said, cut it the hell out.
		Stop it now.
		And it stopped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it stopped.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And so again, this author theorized, because I wouldn't play its game and because I simply refused to get involved.
		There is something about the attention factor.
		And that's why when in visiting haunting situations, the people are frightened and I think they're feeding it energy.
		In this particular house, when we arrived at Art, nearly everyone in the family was on the edge of hysteria.
		They had suffered such an array of haunting phenomena that they were just, I mean, they were just on the edge.
		Now, obviously, their fear, their focus and concentration was feeding the phenomena, was feeding the energy, and it had built up that kind of power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then we feed these things.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I totally believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe even the way we feed dreams.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		We feed dreams and that electromagnetic energy within us.
		So probably it gains that way, and it can gain power.
		That's why a phantom.
		A phantom is a ghost.
		We just put quote around ghost now.
		That's seen repeatedly in the same area, time after time after time.
		Many towns have a phantom dog, a phantom nun, a phantom horseman, a phantom this.
		I mean, coast to coast, we have haunting situations that literally, like psychic marionettes, gain an energy of their own so that they become, in my lexicon, they become phantoms.
		They become psychological psychic marionettes because so many people believe in them, so many people have feared them, so many people have encountered them and fed them their fear that they literally take on an independent existence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then the opposite must be love.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I know that you actually, I think that you and Sherry have written books, have you not, about the phenomena of soulmates?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And the healing power of love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the healing power of love.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And then Sherry has a new one out, just out, the power of prayer to heal and transform your life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'll tell you, there's no question about that.
		Daniel Brinkley is a living example of the healing power of prayer.
		Absolutely.
		This recent occurrence to Daniel is I actually flew back to be with him.
		Oh, wonderful.
		I thought he was leaving us.
		He had four aneurysms going at the same time.
		He should have been dead.
		Anyway, picking up on this, I'm going to leave you just a little bit early on this break.
		Hold on, Brad.
		I want to sort of set something up here just because this is sort of important to me.
		We were coming back from our trip, a very extensive trip that you all know about by now.
		And we were on British Airways.
		And they played, you know how when you have your headphones on a British Airways, they were playing this song, which my wife immediately identified with.
		I'm married to kind of a wild woman.
		You know, she is of many tempers and many personalities.
		And she's an intriguing, one-of-a-kind woman that I absolutely love, as you know.
		Her name is Ramona.
		And she identified with this song that must have been a hit in Britain.
		And we had a really, really hard time finding it here in America.
		But by gosh, we found it.
		And I want you to hear a little bit of it.
		Because, according to Ramona, it perfectly describes her.
		And so what I suggest is that you take a second and listen to the words of this.
		I'm only going to play part of it, but listen to the words of it.
		This is a song that they were playing on the British Airways system as we came back into America or toward America.
		And Ramona said, listen to it, Art.
		It's me.
		So what I suggest is, if you can, listen to the words.
unidentified		I hate the world today.
		You're so good to me, I know, but I can't change.
		Tried to tell you, but you look at me like maybe I'm an angel underneath.
		Innocent and sweet.
		Yesterday I cried.
		But to then relieve to see the sound of sight, I can understand how you'd be so confused.
		I don't envy you.
		I'm a little bit of everything.
		All rolling to one.
		I'm a bitch.
		I'm a lover.
		I'm a child.
		I'm a mother.
		I'm a sinner.
		I'm a safe.
		I do not feel ashamed.
		I'm your help.
		I'm your dream.
		Nothing in the dream of you Wouldn't want it any other way Thank you.
		Take me as I am.
		Maybe you'll have to be a joyful man.
		But you're sure that when I start to make you nervous, and I'm going to extreme, tomorrow I will change.
		And the day will mean a thing.
		I'm a match.
		I'm a lover.
		I'm a child.
		I'm a mother.
		I'm a sinner.
		I'm a fan.
		I do not feel the change.
		I'm your help.
		I'm your dream.
		I'm nothing in the dream.
		Oh, you wouldn't want it any other way.
		Oh, you wouldn't want it any other way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Coast to Coast AF.
unidentified		Just when you think you got me figured out the season, already changing.
		I think it's cool for you to do things.
		I'm a bad, I'm a lover.
		I'm a child.
		I'm a mother.
		I'm a girl.
		I'm a saint.
		I do not feel the same.
		I'm your head.
		I'm your dream.
		I'm nothing in between.
		All you want in any other way.
		I'm a bad, I'm a team.
		I'm a bad knee.
		I'm your angel.
		I'm a man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that song that Ramona said is all her, is probably all a lot of females, is not for us to understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We should remember that.
unidentified		Ah, love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fools?
		I think not.
		Smart.
		All right.
		Back to Brad Steiger and the stretch run, Brad.
		We've got a zillion people on the phone, of course.
		So.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I just wanted to Say, kind of bring it back to how we began tonight when you asked, What is the purpose and why do we enjoy being frightened and hearing these stories?
		My younger daughter was, oh, probably nine when we moved into a country house that was really had the gamut of haunting phenomenon.
		Just before we bought the place, one of the relatives said, oh boy, this is perfect for you, Steiger, writing about ghosts because you're moving into a haunted house.
		That was a nephew of the person whose house we had bought, and it truly was.
		My daughter, the nine-year-old, being the youngest, really took the brunt of the haunting.
		I mean, the poor child was terrified.
		She's 32 now, and last summer we were kind of talking about it again and getting her responses, and she said, you know, Dad, it was horrible living through it, but she said, at the same time, it really proved to me that there's life after death, that there is an unseen world.
		And the questions that so many people ask themselves, you know, is there life after death?
		Do we go on?
		She says, I had answered for me in maybe a spooky and frightening way.
		But she says, now that I'm older, I see it in a whole different picture, is that that answered questions for me that some people will always be asking.
		So I think that's what all of these ghost stories, to some people who look at it superficially, really mean.
		They are truly, some of them eerie, some of them spooky, some of them positive and affirming.
		They do give evidence that life goes on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, that's the larger picture.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		That's the larger picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to say this.
		I have always, all my life, enjoyed ghost stories, and every year I do ghost to ghost, and we tell ghost stories for a day or two around Halloween.
		But it was always a sort of a vicarious enjoyment for me.
		Enjoying being scared.
		It's like going to a scary movie or something.
		There's that part of it.
		I enjoyed the vicarious part of it.
		But there was a little bit of separation.
		A couple hours ago, when there was that giant rap on my door, my entire thought about everything modified itself because it scared the you-know-what out of me.
		I'm not kidding.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You just got a real reality check there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		That's right.
		That's right.
		West of the Rockies, you've been on the line a long time.
		Thanks for waiting.
		You're on the air with Brad Steiger.
		Hello.
		Hi.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm Bob, and I'm in Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		Sure.
unidentified		I'd like to say that I personally have had an experience, not a near-death experience, but rather a sort of Gnosis type thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A what?
unidentified		Gnosis, knowledge.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, knowing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Knowing, okay.
unidentified		Yeah.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Gnosis.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Uh-huh.
		And it deals very heavily with ancient Egypt.
		And I'm not really struggling to understand it, but I have gotten something out of it that I believe has not been seen before.
		What?
		Oh, about a year ago, I started studying their art.
		I had no previous interest in it, actually.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You mean ancient Egyptian art?
unidentified		Right, the hieroglyphs, basically everything involved with it.
		And I started to put elements of it together, separating parts of it here and there.
		And it seemed like certain things went together with other things.
		And I started combining these.
		And soon I was getting portraits and pictures and things that I couldn't understand, but yet were very Egyptian.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And may I ask what your ethnic heritage is?
unidentified		Nationality-wise?
		Yes.
		I'm Irish.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		So I started putting these things together and connecting them, and I realized that these were concealed images.
		And every time, it was like I was an intuitive thing that this was right, you know, that I had arranged these right.
		And so I'm left with these images, and they're really quite interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we talked about this in a way earlier because we said that the ancient Egyptians appeared to understand thousands of years ago something about death and dying in an afterlife that we don't understand.
		So it may well be that what they did in hieroglyphs and what they did in their art would be able to put together some knowledge for you if you studied it.
		Does that seem logical to you, Brad?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and Bob, if you want to, Xerox some of the ones that are especially meaningful to you, send them to me, and I'd be happy to send you my interpretation.
unidentified		Yeah, that'd be an option.
		Like I say, I think these are things that haven't been seen before.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, fire them to Brad, would you?
unidentified		Yes, I will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		And I guess, well, we'll do it again in about 10 minutes and give out your address.
		So anybody who doesn't yet have it, get a pencil and a paper, and we'll do that.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
		Good morning.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Tim Collin from Anchorage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anchorage, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		It was mentioned reincarnation, and someone mentioned Hebrews 9:27 that they only have one time to live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct, yes.
unidentified		And, you know, something interesting about Hebrews is that it's the only book in the New Testament, at least that I know of, where the author is unknown.
		And there are five references to Isaiah and John the Baptist.
		And they're all in harmony with each other.
		And yet, this one in Hebrews is out of harmony with the rest.
		And if you read Hebrews, it's very uninspiring.
		It looks like it was written by, inspired by a man instead of being inspired by God.
		And there's something else in Hebrews, too, that kind of endears it to preachers because it mentions you've got to give 10% of what you make to the church.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So I tend to believe in reincarnation.
		I believe John the Baptist was reincarnated from Elias or Elijah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, those are interesting observations because you're a thinking, thoughtful person.
unidentified		You have a good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Take care, and thank you very much for the call.
		I think the Bible is a wonderful work.
		I have doubt that it is the precisely translated word for word.
		I think that there is interpretation of man involved in it, and I don't know about all the translations.
		And so I don't, you know, people who believe it literally, I'm like you, Brad, I would never argue with them, nor would I attempt to disrupt their faith in any way.
		But from my own point of view, I don't take it necessarily completely literally.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Marvelous passages of inspiration and guidance that are eternal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		But as you say, so keenly, spiritually inspired that they can speak to us as individuals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art and Brad.
		This is Lee from San Diego County.
		Yes.
		And I can speak to the loveliness of the lady Ramona because I met her this morning.
		So I haven't seen those other sides.
		But I wanted to make just a couple of affirmative points.
		And the first of those, I come from a long family line of women that are quietly connected to occasional paranoia normal experience.
		And your discussion of dreams, I was greatly distressed when I woke from a dream one night, and a light drawing form materialized that was offering just amazing comfort and love.
		And I reached out because I'm a touchy kind of a person.
		I reached out and I touched it and I felt a tingle and a vibration, an electrical buzz, kind of a low-level shock that really speaks to that electromagnetic force that an entity has.
		The other point I wanted to make was that you called our earthly experience a schoolhouse.
		And I listened earlier, as some had called and argued, like jailhouse lawyers.
		I just need to emphasize that with time and with more and more experience, as in school, our outlook really broadens.
		And we begin to understand the enormity of God's love and the encompassing, the all-encompassing nature of it.
		And it's been very interesting listening to you tonight because I've been really suppressing my availability to receive over the last few years because I've been very busy and it takes a lot of energy.
		And the synchronicity that I've been experiencing over the last two years, like I said, just always tickles me.
		And your discussion tonight truly, truly did that.
		I enjoyed this very much.
		And I hope that others have really listened carefully and understood that we are on differing levels.
		And there are so many things that we can experience and understand if we open ourselves to them.
		But do it with the protection of God's love because it makes a big difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Thank you.
		It's probably a good place for a warning.
		There are a lot of people who go, particularly children, teenagers, who just go blundering, blunder bussing into this and go out and get a Ouija board and invite all kinds of things in.
		And you'd be a great person to perhaps give them a warning ahead of Halloween here about what's a good idea and what's not such a good idea.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly the Ouija board.
		And whenever I speak out against it, I get all kinds of letters.
		All people are divinely guided by it and so forth.
		Well, perhaps those are very experienced individuals who surround themselves by the love of God's light and so forth.
		But too many kids look at it as a game, and it is not a game.
		It is nothing to play around with.
		Certainly, the whole idea of opening yourself to spirit possession, which is what you're doing with a Ouija board, unless you are just playing games.
		But even on the lower level, superficial game-playing level, which again, it's not a game even though it's sold as one, it really opens up to deceitful entities.
		I've worked with so many people who have caught themselves in a very difficult trap, people who have become hysterical afterwards.
		I've had so many times, especially years ago, art, parents bringing their children to me after a slumber party and things just got out of control with the Ouija board.
		It is nothing to play around with, nor is it to play around with to open yourself to entities.
		Again, the holy books of all traditions say, By their works you shall know them and test the spirits, test the entities.
		Be certain, as I said, Sherry says it so well when she says, you know, these beings do not appear as grotesque monsters.
		They appear loving and seductive and full of light.
		You must test them.
		And with Halloween coming up, truly, there are energies abroad on this hallowed and sacred night.
		And we should be respectful of those entities, as the recent caller just said, surround ourselves with the love of God's light and the light of God's love, however you want to say it, and wear that as an armor, because there are negative entities out there who would just love to possess young, vital human beings.
		They are especially susceptible because of their lack of experience.
		But with our bombardment of our culture today, kids get pseudo-sophisticated too early.
		They are not sophisticated, but they have the veneer because they're able to imitate and copy so much of what they see on television and the movies.
		But they haven't had the maturity.
		They haven't had the time to attain wisdom.
		And parents, don't repress, don't restrict, don't, I mean, in the sense of going overboard, but be aware of what your child is doing.
		Be aware of what your child is experimenting with.
		And concern yourself and involve yourself with your parents.
		I'm saying to the kids now, you won't find them completely stuffy and stodgy.
		You will find that they actually had a life once upon a time.
		They were actually young.
		They actually went through the torment and tortures and the emotional pains that you're going through.
		And parents, don't be afraid to involve yourself.
		Don't be afraid to be rejected by your young person.
		Don't be afraid to have a family prayer circle.
		Don't be afraid to have five, whether you read from the Bible or whether you read from Yogananda or whether you read from any inspirational book.
		Don't be afraid to do that as a family and take an active role in your child's spiritual development.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just be careful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something invited in innocently as funnery at a party on the 31st could be with you through 1998 and years to come.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		And remember, you do have to invite them in.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		You can resist them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we may have time for one more call.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Brad Steiger.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, how's he doing this morning?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, just fine.
		Not a lot of time.
		What's on your mind?
unidentified		Oh, I just thought I'd call.
		I did have a question for him.
		By the way, I'm calling from Minnesota.
		I'm raining the St. Croix out here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir?
unidentified		I live in a really old house built in 1857.
		The guy who built the house, settled the town, and what I understood took two Indian wives.
		And legend has it, I guess you'd say, that he murdered them both in the house.
		And, I mean, it's a spooky old house kind of thing, but it's always at that, you know, someone's watching you air about it.
		And I have friends, you know, that are 300 pounds of testosterone that won't come in this house at night.
		And, you know, myself, I'm over 300 pounds.
		And I used to get spooked about this house.
		But what I was wondering is, I mean, have you ever heard of anything in the way of a spirit protecting its own house?
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		There are spirits that haunt people.
		There are spirits that haunt houses.
		And there are more haunted places, believe me, than there are haunted people.
		The atmosphere, as we said, somehow we don't understand it yet, my friend, but these impressions are ingrained.
		They become imbued into the environment.
		And people of the proper sensitivity, and just because you're a macho guy, that doesn't mean on one level you're very sensitive and susceptible to the energies around you.
		So, yes, it's the place more often than not that has the haunting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and when we're talking about spirits, I don't think body weight carries a whole lot of.
unidentified		No, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, we're way out of time.
		So give us, if you would, two things.
		One, your address again, and then the 800 number for any books.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
		The 800 number, which you can order any of our books, is 800-862-2923.
		And we would love to hear from you in terms of your experiences.
		Please, though, send a stamped self-addressed envelope because we just get hundreds of pieces of mail here.
		And that's post office box 434-Forest City.
		That's forest like a group of trees.
		Forest City, Iowa, 50436.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess for those who are writing, do the address once more.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Post Office Box 434 Forest City, Iowa, 50436.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a wonderful show.
		Brad, as always, it just zipped right on by Five Hours Gone.
		We will, of course, do it again.
		It's been one of the best.
		Thank you, my friend.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Sherry said to say hello to both of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good night.
brad steiger ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		Folks, we're out of time.
		That's Brad Steiger.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.

▲