Bob Lazar, the physicist who claims to have worked at Area 51’s S4 from December 1988 to April 1989, details reverse-engineering nine extraterrestrial craft under Edward Teller’s oversight, using a stable element 115 (223g) for gravity-defying propulsion. His restricted access revealed reactors producing power without waste heat and spacetime-distorting "Delta" mode for interstellar travel, though he dismisses Hollywood sensationalism of his story. Lazar’s abrupt dismissal—due to his wife’s affair—sparked fears of erasure, as records vanished except for a Los Alamos phone book entry and a newspaper confirmation. This rare 1997 interview, now a collector’s item, underscores persistent claims of government secrecy around advanced alien technology, despite official denials. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert at the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be across all these many prolific time zones, stretching from the Hawaiian and Teaching Island chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean, and the U.S. Virgin Islands and much more of the Caribbean, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
This is post-post a.m.
Good morning.
You are about to experience history in the making this morning in more ways than one.
Coming up in a few moments, Bob Lazar and Gene Hunt.
Bob Lazar, I'll tell you all about, as well as Gene, in a moment in detail, but suffice to say, uh, Bob is probably one of the best known people in all of ufology and has not done many interviews over the years, has kind of shunned them over the years.
I interviewed him many years ago, four or five, in fact.
So many that he doesn't even remember.
That was back when our present just about 400 radio stations were instead one.
So I can assure you you have quite a few coming up this morning.
Now, I would like to welcome KNST.
That's KNSTAM in Tucson, Arizona.
Boy, are we ever glad to be on board full-time now in Tucson, 790 in Tucson.
And such will be the case.
They'll also carry Dreamland on Sunday.
Now, one other little item.
This is going to be the weekend to get filthy rich on the rogue market.
The rogue market.
What is that?
Well, it is a strange kind of place and a lot of fun.
It's more fun than you've had in a long time.
And this weekend is going to be the capper.
This weekend, my stock price is going to go over $12,000.
You watch and see.
And if you get in early and you are part of all this early, you will make many rogue dollars.
You will then be able to convert those rogue dollars into rogue prizes.
An unidentified wingless object traveling at high speed passed dangerously close to a Swiss air jetliner, a 747, a Boeing 747, flying between Philadelphia and Boston, according to the airline, on Friday.
The pilot and co-pilot gave U.S. investigators different descriptions of the object that passed about, get this folks, 50 yards from the Boeing 747 after it had taken off from Philadelphia on August 9th.
The pilot told the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board that the object was long and wingless.
Co-pilot said it was more spherical.
The incident took place at 23,000 feet.
The plane's final destination was Zurich, Switzerland.
That is from the Associated Press.
So, it looks like a 747 just had a close encounter with something.
All right, here we go.
Bob Lazar is the ex-government scientist who in 1989 came forward with the fact that he had been part of a team of scientists who back-engineered extraterrestrial disks, flying saucers, in other words, at a base known as S4, some 15 miles south of the infamous Area 51 at Groom Lake.
Bob's story is the main reason behind the state of Nevada changing the name of Nevada State Highway 375, the Highway to Area 51 or S4, to its new name, the Extra Terrestrial Highway, indeed.
Bob currently runs a company that manufactures and repairs alpha radiation detectors.
He also creates CGI computer-generated graphics and simulations for technical and legal demonstration videos, for which he uses his mainframe supercomputer, which, by the way, is the second fastest computer in the state of Nevada, second only to the one at Nellis Air Force Base.
Bob also has a small photo processing lab in his home.
In his spare time, Bob does pyrotechnical and rocket research and throws Desert Blast, his annual fireworks blowout, at the Nevada Desert.
And if memory serves, he also fools around with alternative fuels for cars.
He comes this morning with Gene Huff, Bob's longtime friend and business partner, who is the writer and co-producer of the Lazar tape.
Gene is a real estate appraiser and screenwriter.
His screenplay S4, the Bob Lazar Story, has recently been optioned and was chosen over three other screenplays on the Lazar story, written by writers Jim Cresson, I guess that's right, Cresson or Cresson, who wrote The Morning After with Jeff Bridges and Jane Fonda,
Roy Carlson, who wrote China Moon with Ed Harris and Madeleine Stowe, and David Rabbé, I guess it would be, Rabé, Rabbé, who wrote Casualties of War with Sean Penn and Michael J. Fox, and co-wrote The Firm with Tom Cruise and Gene Hackman.
So, this is quite a coup, obviously, for an entry-level screenwriter.
My friends tell me I have about the worst memory that can be had, but from what I recall, years ago I remember John Lear apparently booking me on your show and never telling me about it.
Well, in fact, we now have such a gigantic audience out there that hardly anybody knows who you are, Bob, except for, of course, you know, ufologists and so forth, who would be very familiar with your story.
So the great majority of the audience, 99%, have no idea who Bob Lazar is.
Now, I guess that means we have to begin at the beginning.
Well, let me try and give you the reader's digest version.
Some years ago, I was working at Los Alamos National Labs in New Mexico.
One particular day, I was going down to the lecture hall to hear Edward Teller speak, who, as most people know, is the father of the hydrogen bomb.
I got down there a little early because I wanted to get in, assuming there was going to be a crowd of people, and actually, to my surprise, there was hardly anyone there.
Coincidentally, that day, the local newspaper in town, The Monitor, had printed a front-page article on me.
And right outside the lecture hall was Dr. Teller reading the front page of the paper.
So I thought it was a perfect opportunity to introduce myself and just say hi.
And the only reason I bring it up is years later I had moved out of Los Alamos.
After I quit working for the lab, I opened up my own business that did some contract work for the lab, and also started a one-hour Photoshop for my wife that she ran there.
We later moved out of Los Alamos to Las Vegas.
And again, sometime later, I decided I had missed working in the scientific community, so I decided to get back in and send out resumes.
I sent them out really all over the place to the places where I'd essentially like to live, liver more, I really don't remember where else, but one of the other resumes I sent was to Dr. Teller's attention.
And I had referenced our meeting back then.
A short time later, I got a call from him, and he did remember me, to my surprise, and said we might have a position you're interested in.
I said, great.
I went down and was interviewed.
At that time, there were a couple EG ⁇ G buildings by McCarran Airport out here in Las Vegas.
I really don't know what's there now.
Someone tells me there's still one building, but there used to be two before they expanded the airport.
One was special projects, and I don't know what the other one was, but in either case, I was told to go down there for an interview.
The interview was relatively short, and I really don't remember specifically what the job entailed, but they told me I was basically overqualified and would become bored with it in a short time.
I said, fine, but they said we might have something else in the future for you.
Remember this when I go through most of this stuff, people are amazed.
Boy, how come you can't remember these facts?
This is a fantastic point in your life.
Yeah, but it's also a decade old now, and it's hard to remember specifics here and there.
However, as it turned out, they did call back and had another position.
The position was stated To be something that was involving a field propulsion system, which to me, in my mind, sounded something along the lines of some electromagnetic propulsion, something that might be used in space, maybe I don't know, an ion drive system using mercury vapor or something like that.
Well, there were certainly a lot of security-oriented questions and so forth later on.
However, keep in mind that I had just come from Los Alamos just a couple years before where I had Q clearance, civilian, you know, top secret clearance.
So, yeah, they really didn't have to go and dig deep back into my past to see if I was of Russian descent or anything along those lines.
So basically, the job just seemed like a typical research and development job.
I was anxious to get started on it, and things went on.
All they told me is that it was in a remote area out in the desert, and that I would, initially, I would fly out there maybe once, possibly twice a week, just to kind of get caught up on stuff.
And they had to reinstate my clearance, which would take perhaps a couple weeks, maybe a month at the latest.
And so in the meantime, I was given busy, essentially busy work to do, or at least that's how it rang in my mind.
And this is typical, too, at Los Alamos.
If you're initially hired there before your clearance goes through, sometimes obtaining Q clearance can take up to 13 months.
So they don't just have you sit at home.
You'll, before you go to work for the lab, sit around and work on alarm systems or something like that.
Something usually below your potential, but nothing to keep you busy.
I had no idea what this would actually entail until I got into it.
And obviously, looking through their eyes, I guess, it made sense that they couldn't, of course, divulge what this job would actually entail before they had gone through all the security and whatnot.
I don't know how else to describe him, but he was not nearly as short, not physically speaking, but I mean, you know, if you see him in interviews, you'll see him answer questions specifically to the point, short, and on to the next question, and not be very talkative, not offer any information other than what you're immediately talking about.
And in person, he was certainly not that way.
So he was the exact opposite, very pleasant and willing to talk about anything.
Of course, we don't talk about nuclear weapons or anything.
But I can tell you, Bob, when you drive up by the VFW here in Perump at about 4.30 or 5 in the morning, there's a whole bunch of buses out there, and they've got signs right on the side of the buses.
I saw it about a month ago, and it just says Area 51.
I don't recall there being three, you know, obviously large hangars on the approach in from Las Vegas, you know, that stood out that much above everything else.
Okay.
I recall a huge satellite dish.
But for the most part, most of the time I was going there at night and certainly didn't have a run of the place.
All I did was get to go in one time I got to go to the cafeteria.
But other than that, it was merely a stop toward S4.
Yeah, toward S4.
But I don't recall there being three large hangars, really, that stood out more than anything else.
The thing I did see that was unusual was some sort of advanced rocket or jet plane.
People have called it Aurora.
I don't know if it was Aurora or if it even exists, but John Andrews from the Tester Corporation and a few other aviation buffs kind of interviewed me more or less About that.
It was something along the lines of an X-15 shaped type of craft.
Now, we were driving away from this as it was taxiing, but it was a horrendously loud tearing sound that the engines made.
And I think my original description was that it made a sound like the air was tearing, and that's the best description I could give to it.
Now, I certainly have heard about the new generation of scramjet engines that have supersonic airflow inside that burn liquid methane and so on and so forth.
Whether that was these, I don't know.
But I did get a look up the exhaust as we were turning, and they were a rectangular exhaust with some sort of vanes inside.
That's all the information I can give, and what it was, I don't know.
No, well, even though the X-15 was a lifting body, it was not a lifting body like you'd see on an F-16 or something where there'd be a lot more wing incorporated into the body.
It was more along the lines of a long, slender body, maybe the cross between an F-104 and an X-15, for those people that are familiar with those planes.
Very short, stubby wings, which translates to me, high speed of rotation, high flight speed, and things like that.
But again, I didn't get a very good look at it.
And I don't know.
It could have been anything, a scientific research vehicle or anything.
I'm certainly not claiming that was Aurora.
But sometime later, some of those people were down in Rachel, and they heard and recorded a sound that they interpreted as the sky-tearing and played it back to me, and it was, in fact, the identical sound.
So a couple of years later, it was still operational, whatever that thing was.
But that was the only unusual thing I ever saw there.
I mean, that may be a slight exaggeration of how the wording was, but certainly I signed, I'm trying to remember what it was, like a 10-10 agreement.
If you've heard that before, I don't remember the exact title of the document, but it says if you violate national security secrets, it's 10 years in jail and a $10,000 fine.
I've signed something like that before, but this was certainly far above and beyond that, which was kind of shocking, actually.
But at the time, you pretty much just blow it off and say all this means is that I'm going to be involved in something extremely interesting, and it's great.
So what?
I have no intention of violating any rules or causing any problems.
But when things turn sour, actually before they did, they had come to my house 30 minutes after I got off the phone with Gene one day, and we were joking around on the phone.
They came to my front door 30 minutes later with a transcript of our conversation and outlined where the questionable phrases that I had spoken.
Now, this is amazing to me, considering the closest FBI building down here is on Charleston and Charleston and Maryland Parkway, but I mean, that's you know, that's an amazing feat.
It almost makes me think they had a little mobile setup somewhere.
You're a computer guy, and I've heard, maybe you could confirm this for me, that the NSC has the ability to have supercomputers which virtually are monitoring perhaps even millions of conversations, looking not at the entire conversation, but listening to keywords.
For the most part, for the most part, until I learned how things operated there.
I guess I shouldn't jump ahead that far yet.
Well, I might as well.
For the most part, for science to progress anywhere, if you're doing any sort of research whatsoever, one of the things that is vital is free discussion, open and free discussion amongst the people that are working on the project.
How would I know how bad it was during the atomic age?
But it was very oppressive.
So much so that our job was very compartmentalized.
Every aspect was split into groups of people.
Groups of people are quite literally two people.
You work on the buddy system.
In other words, the only person I can talk to, the only person I can discuss anything with, the only person I can relate to is the one person who I work with.
Any other aspect of the project, any other questions, are simply not to be asked.
So immediately, you're interfering with your progress in that if whatever you're doing interacts with anything else anywhere, you know, you've run into a block wall.
I'm sure if you found that, well, part A connects to part B, which we're not allowed to see, I'm sure there would be some way to gain some of that information.
unidentified
Bob, not only were you not the first person assigned that path, but this might be an interesting point to tell them why you were told you were hired.
Actually, one of the questions I've always had is why did they hire me?
Certainly for this project, I would not be the most intelligent, the most resourceful person that they could possibly hire out of all the people at Los Alamos or anywhere else in The world for that matter.
So I've always wondered exactly why they would have picked me.
I've ran a lot of things through my mind, you know, different possible scenarios, and they really none of them make any sense.
was it because edward teller just but i was a nice guy in a potentially used to be into the position it's a Yeah, but in a project like this, why would something like that happen where every person counts?
You're talking in a project where there are only actually 22 active people working on it.
As far as my scientific background, it was actually fairly limited.
The most, I mean, I was working at Los Alamos on the working with the accelerator at that point, so it really wasn't a propulsion-based job, anything to do with what I was about to have my hands on.
For those of you who want a Daniel Brinkley update, and I'm getting a lot of factors, the news just keeps getting better and better.
Guarded, but better.
Not only is he out of intensive care, but he's out of the hospital as of late afternoon and convalescing at a undisclosed location so he can get some real rest.
That is the latest.
It goes well.
I'll keep you updated as I can.
Next update coming Sunday on Dreamland.
I'm Art Bell.
Bob Lazar and Gene Huff are my guests.
And the story that you're about to hear unfold is indeed an amazing, amazing story.
So, you know, turn up the volume.
Don't move.
rivet yourself and stand by the the the Back now to Bob Lazar and Gene Huff, and the story continues.
Here we are at Area S4, south of Groom Lake.
And I guess by now you're in great anticipation, Bob, wondering what you're going to be doing.
And we were talking about the fact that he was not the first one necessarily.
And that makes sense.
In other words, if they had something they didn't understand, I can imagine they would bring in an array of people of different disciplines to take a look-see.
Certainly you look at my record and the way I approach things and the work I had done before was a little more renegade and maybe that's what they were doing.
I was looking for someone that would approach a project from a different road.
Initially I was working on the polarized proton target on the accelerator.
The accelerator there at Los Alamos is a linear accelerator.
It stretches about, if I remember, about a half mile.
And it's one of the more unique setups in that instead of running a single experiment on the output of the accelerator, the beam is split into different areas.
And all these different areas are, I don't know really if they're leased or rented to other countries or other scientists, but several other people and other groups from all over the world essentially can conduct experiments Simultaneously.
At different times, they'll fire different particles down the target for different lengths of time, and everyone can run their own experiments and see what's going on.
There was also some Star Wars development done there.
I mean, they were essentially concerned with more of my, you know, for lack of a better word, playtime than they were what I was or what I had currently done.
So we were talking about, in fact, at that time I had filed patents on it of how the device operated without the need for fuel pumps and things of that sort because of the type of fuel it used.
It was an offshoot of a pressure jet engine, which was invented by Eugene Gluharf, who was also, coincidentally, the inventor of the rocket ejection seat that's used on all fighter aircraft.
Indeed.
He developed that, I believe, in the 50s.
And in the 70s, I had run into him and really, as a kid back then, started working in my spare time as I went to Pierce College at that time, working to improve on the design.
I came off with an offshoot of the design, which was a little more complicated, but produced a lot more thrust.
The basic design of the engine is it has no moving parts at all.
One property of propane is that it sticks to hot metal.
This eliminates all the needs for flame holders and things of that sort inside the engine, which makes it more complicated.
I'm trying to think of a couple other points about it.
It was a pretty different design as far as jet engines go.
And with the changes I made, it was essentially a different type of engine.
And after I had gone past the development of it on a test stand, I built a slightly larger one and installed it in the back of a car.
And it was a convenient mobile test setup as opposed to play around with in the desert.
Sure.
Which is where the whole article came from in the newspaper.
And here's how I would, based on what you said, I'll bet here's what happened.
The article in the paper, the conversation with Edward Teller, and probably his suggestion, which probably amounts to more of an order, that you'd be a good person, kind of a rebel, to go take a look at the stuff they had at Area S-Forum.
That would be my best guess.
That's a pretty good guess.
What do you think, Gene?
unidentified
I agree.
I think that Edward Teller's word carried all of the weight in the world.
And I also agree with you that who would have a background, who would be qualified to work on a gravity propulsion system and an antimatter reactor and the things Bob later ran into.
And Bob's a comprehensive problem solver, has a background in physics and electronics and propulsion, and I can understand why they'd hire him.
Well, yeah, if you're going to go, if you really have extraterrestrial craft and you're trying to figure out what makes them go, then you're going to go find somebody who works out of the box.
In other words, is a bit of a rebel and kind of works out of the normal box and experiments and tinkers and is interested in propulsion.
That's the kind of person you're going to go for because there's nobody out there with specific qualifications for that job.
They took my arm and drew a little graph on it and pricked each little area in my arm with different little needles.
And in fact, I was not permitted back to work, I think, for two weeks until there was a reaction, or if there was to be a reaction, with any of the substances they put on my skin.
And they said, you know, we're working with some extremely exotic materials here that we're not all that familiar with, and we want to know if there's going to be any problem with them.
And I said, well, that's, again, odd, but acceptable.
And I was also given an injection there, too, which was a wide-spectrum.
Now, I mean, there have been so many, I'm sure which we'll get into later, you know, so many ridiculous stories, offshoots of what actually had happened to me.
You know, people said, oh, well, they injected you with thorazine or so on, or this was the memory drug that wiped out your memory so you could only remember back and forth, and, you know, so on and so forth.
But I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case.
They were mainly concerned about the, you know, here you're dealing with actual extraterrestrial materials.
And if we're going to be crawling around on them, taking things apart and having contact with them, you know, they imagine they want to make sure that the people working on it are fairly safe.
Well, that, in one hand, weighed against the fact that, you know, don't forget the United States government fed fallout to people from time to time and, you know, did other strange things to them.
Well, a lot has actually changed in the past 10 years.
if you remember you know ten years ago to the predominant theory about how gravity propagates in any physics textbook you know related to gravitons and now the predominant theory is gravitational waves which is exactly how some of uh...
And now it's spoken of as a matter of fact.
This is how gravity propagates through space.
And it's just interesting to see how things slowly, over the span of a decade, quietly change.
I think he said he gave me a shot of painkiller, Demerol, I believe it was, and he took a urine sample, a blood test, and he asked if I had any previous problems, anything strange.
And obviously I said no, no, no.
Certainly didn't mention anything about getting an injection in a strange place in the middle of the desert.
Yeah, they did just an X-ray to see if there was any blockage.
But a day later, or I think even the next Morning.
Everything was fine.
The x-rays came back negative, and I believe the blood work came back negative too, as did the urine sample.
So, in fact, I think his conclusion was that perhaps I had passed a small stone and wound up in my bladder, and then it would probably hurt coming out again.
But that never occurred, and whether or not that scenario is correct, again, is just speculation.
But I don't know, you just stirred that up in my memory.
I don't think I've been able to get in that sense that's right.
The next thing to happen was that I was led into a room with quite a number of little briefing packages, briefing papers.
These range from two pages to about five pages, little folders with different aspects of the project that I was working on.
This was, I believe, the part of the first day and the second day that I was working there.
So they just sat you down at a table and had you begin to read about these were just basic overviews of what each group was doing, just essentially to give you knowledge of what the other facets of the project were about.
The story you're hearing is a remarkable one, and we're beginning to hear new details because Bob's remembering new details.
Bob Lazar and Gene Huff are my guests.
The subject, Area 51, more specifically, Area S4.
Whereas you will hear shortly, extraterrestrial craft were back-engineered.
Yes, that's what Bob did.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 26, 1997.
Can't stay alive without you.
Oh, baby, don't leave me this way.
I can't expect I'm your favorite.
Don't leave me this way.
Baby, my heart is full of love and desire for you.
Now come on down and do what you gotta do.
You started this fire down in my soul.
Now can't you see it's burning out of control.
Now can't you see it's burning out of control.
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Pre-Hear Radio Networks, tonight an ongoing presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 26, 1997.
Well, here I am, and Bob Lazar and Gene Huff are here.
It's the story of a lifetime.
And we're trying to develop it slowly and get as many details as we can.
But we're about to get to the very interesting part here.
So hang with us.
Now back to Bob Lazar and Gene Huff.
Now, you're welcome to facts in a question.
As a matter of fact, I already have many, but I'm going to hold them until the story unfolds completely.
Then we'll ask some of the facts questions.
Then we'll go to the phones.
So if your dialing finger is itchy, and it is because they're all ringing, just relax.
We'll get to the phones in due time.
Right now, let us unwind the story.
Back to Bob Lazar and Gene Huff, gentlemen.
You're back on the air again.
All right.
so here we are are you're in a little room with a bunch of briefing papers giving you more or less an outline but not specifics of what of the work being done on Well, at this point, yeah, this was the first time I really knew exactly what I would be doing.
Well, it was, and it was also hard to believe, because certainly going into the project, I was basically a Neptune Boltz guy and certainly didn't believe in UFOs and thought everyone was crazy that even considered the topic.
I certainly believe that there was life elsewhere.
Certainly life can exist on other planets, other galaxies, other solar systems.
But I just found it very hard to believe that there was any intelligent life visiting Earth.
But also, he was into science and technology, and he certainly wasn't well read.
I mean, he had never heard of the Betty and Barney Hill case, or He didn't know anything about the Roswell crash or anything along those lines.
I mean, he wasn't interested and he didn't pursue it.
And if you all remember, really a decade ago, I mean, some of that information was available, but certainly wasn't prevalent to the point that it is today with websites and movies and television shows.
As a matter of fact, before we proceed, Bob, I'd be very, very interested to hear your reaction.
I have interviewed now twice, very rare interviews, by the way, hours-long interviews, with Colonel Philip Corso.
And I'm kind of interested to get your reaction to Colonel Corso's revelations about the back engineering and insertion into American industry he did of artifacts from the Roswell crash.
He was given the job of, he was actually handed a filing cabinet by a general, and he was given a job of figuring out what some of these things were and introducing them into American industry, specifically Bell Labs and some others at the time.
And these were artifacts from Roswell, and he is very, very credible.
Maybe they're just trying to determine what reactions of people in science would be to extraterrestrial craft or the fact of extraterrestrial terrestrial presence of any kind at all.
The only one that had damage to it looked intentional.
It was a craft that had a It's kind of hard to describe, but the area around the craft, the lip, if you will, was very broad and flat and thin, and it looked as if it had been stood up and a projectile fired through it.
The hole from the distance that I saw looked around four inches, but it could have been any size.
Of course, on the other hand, it's an extremely unscientific test.
You take something as prized as that.
You don't stand it up and fire a cannon at the thing or a howitzer.
You certainly take a small quantity off and do your analysis of that piece.
But for whatever reason, that was the only one that looked like it sustained any damage.
Some of the other craft were dismantled to some point, but certainly not wrecked.
The only craft that I was permitted to work on, to touch, to have anything to do with, was the craft that I termed the sport model.
that's the one you have a model of their was you turn around as you picked the walk in on all of this so bob This is I saw this one craft.
Now, the hangar doors are all, the hangars are all next to each other, and only at one time, you know, way down the road, were all the bay doors open at one time.
And I got a glance to see in the other hangar doors.
But for the most part, at this point, all I knew was that there was this one craft.
And now in my mind, I am convinced that this is just a U.S. manufactured, extremely secret fighter reconnaissance craft.
This is exactly what this meeting with Barry entails, is the description of precisely what I'm supposed to be working on, what my function in life is now at this place.
And this is where I find out that we are essentially, well, number one, that the briefings I was reading are correct.
The scope, the aim of our project is now to back engineer these craft, or this one particular craft, with the intention of duplicating it, or duplicating the subsystems within it using earthly materials.
So that was the project.
Now, this hit me quite hard at that time, and needless to say, this night I didn't get any sleep.
It was fairly exciting before that.
And certainly Barry just telling me this wasn't enough.
This is when we also had some demonstrations on what we had found out or what information had been gleaned so far from the technology that we've seen.
You know, it was all very fantastic, and it was absolutely mind-boggling.
But in fact, someone called, I don't remember the people involved there, but when they were talking about the movie, the making of the movie, so on and so forth, the lab technician there, I don't remember his name in the movie, but who wore the white lab coat, they called the Bob Lazar guy.
I don't remember the other people that were there, but I thought that was pretty funny.
But as they said, they had taken, for the movie, they had taken much of the UFO lore stories and everything that had been circulating around for years and threw together the script in a short time and produced it.
It looked nothing like that, by the way, but the idea was the same.
All right, well, we're at an interesting juncture here, and the real fun is about to begin.
Were you told that you were going to be working on one specific area of back engineering, or were you going to get the Power and propulsion system, and everything else was essentially off-limits.
However, I did get to go on the craft one time, and this was for the express purpose of only seeing the placement of the reactor and how the gravity amplifiers worked, how the emitters moved freely underneath on the primary level, and just how all the subcomponents fit together.
Take a good few moments to relax, and we'll be right back.
And we will kind of recap at the top of the hour.
And then you're going to hear about an extraterrestrial craft, what it looked like, what the power and propulsion systems were, how they worked, and believe me, much more.
It's not Independence Day, but it's the same idea, except in this case, it's for real.
From the high desert, an area near Dreamland, this is Coast to Coast.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time, the night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 26, 1997.
Music by Ben Thede
You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Post-A-Coast AM from September 26, 1997.
One that may not come along for a while, incidentally.
My guests are Bob Lazar and Gene Huff.
Bob Lazar is the ex-government scientist who back in 1989 came forward with the fact that he had been part of a team of scientists who back-engineered extraterrestrial disks flying saucers at a base known as S4, 15 miles south of the infamous Area 51 at Groom Lake, Nevada.
Along with him, Gene Huff, Bob's longtime friend and business partner, in fact, really all these years, who's a writer and co-producer of the Lazar tape, which we'll tell you about.
Gene is a real estate appraiser and screenwriter.
As a matter of fact, he has written the screenplay and has won the competition for that, as for the Bob Lazar story.
And in the first two hours of the program, we've moved through Bob Lazar's employment, early employment in New Mexico, to his introduction to Edward Teller, to his employment, finally, and we've had a lot of details we've never heard before, at Area S4.
And we have just arrived at the point in the story where he has met up with what he calls the sport model craft.
And I've got a studio cam here, and I will endeavor over the next 30 minutes to take a good picture of the Tester model, which is said to be a faithful reproduction, and we'll confirm that with Bob, of what he saw.
I've got one right here.
By the way, you can get one of those from Tester.
so all of that and a bit of a surprise coming up in a moment so all of that Now back to my guests, Bob Lazar and Gene Huff.
And gentlemen, I have a surprise for you.
Bob, you were, in effect, recruited, I think, by Edward Teller.
I have a friend who's listening to the show this morning as we speak, believe it or not, all the way down in Perth, Australia.
His name is Stan Dale, and he was also recruited by Edward Teller.
And he's got a question or two for you.
I'm going to see if we can bring him up.
All the way from Perth, Australia, there's a slight delay in the phone line transmission.
Bob Lazar is on the line, and I know you followed the Lazar story.
And you might briefly, just very briefly, recap yours and ask a question.
unidentified
All right, very briefly.
I was working in the computer business in Dallas in 19, oh, I think it was 70, 71.
And among other things, I was also doing some investigation for the FBI at the corporations where I was working, as an undercover kind of plant.
During this time, at this company where I was working, a large corporation, it was called Valtex Optical at the time, had 100 subcorporations, and a lot of them operated in Nevada.
And during the time I was there, I was approached by one of the senior executives of this company to go meet with a Dr. James R. Maxfield, at the radiation research clinic over a couple miles from where we had the office in Dallas.
And I didn't go for about a month, and then I met this same executive at a morning coffee in the executive tea room.
And he said to me, I hadn't been to see his friend Maxfield, and the reason he'd asked me to go is because I had talked to him about some work that I've been doing in my time off, my private time at home, in my own laboratory, working with two things.
One was a thermionic electrical converter, and the other was a rather novel method, I thought, of propelling a flying aircraft, which was circular-shaped and, you know, flying saucer, you would call them today.
Anyway, in the course of having told this guy just over coffee, well, he kind of got reason to be interested in it and told me I ought to go talk to a friend of his and didn't do it, so 30 days passed, and he says to me, look, you haven't been to see Jim Maxwell yet.
Please go this afternoon.
I've booked you an appointment at 3.
So I go over this place, and it's not like a place that sees people very often.
It was open.
The door was kind of ajar, but there was no cars in front of it and daylight.
And I walked in.
The lights were off down the hallway, and I walked down the hallway, and it was kind of dark.
And suddenly this nurse, well, I guess a receptionist type lady, appears out of nowhere from the side and says, yes, can I help you?
I said, oh, gee, I didn't know anybody was here.
Look, I think I've got the right building.
I'm looking for this Dr. James R. Maxfield.
And she says, oh, yes, Dr. Maxfield is here.
He'll be out in just a second.
He's down the lab.
And so, sure enough, within a minute or so, this big, tall dude comes out in a white medical coat, smoking a cigar, wearing cowboy boots.
He says, ah, yes, yes, I've been expecting you.
Come on into my office.
And at this time is when I first got introduced to this clandestine organization in the United States that was headed by Dr. Edward Teller and who Maxfield worked with, with Teller.
And this organization had been working since the mid-50s on something like 50-some-odd projects, all related directly to flying saucer technology, if you wish to put it down to that level.
I was just the latecomer on the scene.
They showed me about their base down at the South Pole under the ice cap.
I had to access it by submarine or something similar.
And they explained to me, they knew what I was doing.
They even knew what I was thinking versus, because they asked me about my physics.
And I said, well, look, thinking I was talking to some of the greatest physicists in the world, which I was, I didn't have my degree in that area.
And, you know, I said, well, look, guys, sir, you know, I've been working on a way to unify gravitational electromagnetic and magnetic effects.
And he said, oh, look, spare me all that.
He said, you're working on anti-gravity.
Let's get to the major matter.
How are you doing it?
And that's when he started telling me that I need to finish my research with them down in Australia instead of America.
And that's why I'm here today because those guys packed me up and sent me down here.
We parted ways in 1972 or three, I think it was.
I was only with them for about a year.
And I got rather disenchanted with all the technology they were holding back from the people.
I still was young enough to think that we could save the world by giving technology to countries that needed food and grain and water and stuff shipped back and forth rather rapidly.
But anyway, because of that, we parted ways in a real huff.
And I kind of hid in the bush for a while because they really kind of thought it would be better if I was buried.
And then after coming out of that, I wrote the book, The Conspiracy, to kind of be insurance and told a lot of what I had gone through in there and left the rest for, I'll tell the rest if you get short with me.
See, this is something I've always wondered about the project down where I worked.
and no one really ever spoke of him, but I got just a gut feeling that he was silently in charge of everything.
unidentified
In fact, Bob, if I remember right, when Teller called you, when you originally got the call from him to contact the gentleman at EG ⁇ G, Teller said that he was no longer active but worked in a chief consultant capacity.
Something happened after I left because, in fact, I'll tell you, I had minders appointed down here who really run this country and run the prime ministers.
My minders operate out of a group called the Melbourne Club.
And they're, you know, the old kind of British Raj, you know, cigars and pork white-haired guys.
Anyway, they brought me into their halls of power, and I had lunch a few times with the King Pens there, and my mentor was Sir John Williams and Henry Somerset.
Sir Henry Somerset.
Anyway, we were sitting there one day at lunch, and they were talking amongst themselves about someone moving in on them, or they were like an undeclared war status, and that they were losing.
And they never mentioned aliens or any of that kind of stuff, so don't jump the gun.
But I heard them say, well, yeah, Henry, it looks like we're going to lose this.
They're just moving in.
And I waited, and nothing else was said.
And I said, well, excuse me, gentlemen.
I said, by they, thinking I'd be clever, I said, do you mean the European economic community?
Because we've been talking large corporate or money deals in the country.
And they both look at me like I'd done a root at the table or something and said, oh, maybe we'll do some fishing up the farm this weekend.
And yes, John.
And immediately, I knew that I asked a question that I should have known the answer to already and didn't.
Anyway, they indicated at that point that they were being taken over.
Well, I got away from the organization and wrote the book and all that.
Years passed, and about seven years ago, I have a friend in Scottsdale, Arizona, named Conrad Murphy.
And Conrad goes to a lot of places.
he races boats and cars, and he's a fairly active fellow in business.
Anyway, Conrad is invited to give the morning devotional at some big business breakfast, like for the Arizona 500 Club or something like that.
And so he wrote me, he says, look, guess who I'm going to give the breakfast benediction right next to, who's sitting right next to me next week, is Edward Teller.
And I said, wow, I said, can you get to Dr. Teller and say, take a message.
I want to talk to him.
He said, not a problem.
So I waited and waited, and the week passed, and Conrad brought me back, and he says, wow.
He says, well, I sat next to him.
And he said, it was all kind of normal conversation, give the benediction, eat a bit.
And he says, after he'd had a couple bites, I said to him, look, what do you know about this fellow named Stan Deo, you know, down in Australia working on anti-gravity and, you know, flying saucers?
And he said, Teller looked at him very blankly and said, don't know the fellow.
He says, oh, that's odd.
And he reaches in his coat and pulls out a copy of my book with my photo on it and turns it up in front of Ed Teller.
He said the blood drained out of his face.
And he looked away and a general over on the side who was in uniform came over and took Teller and said, Dr. Teller's got another meeting and took him away.
So I wondered at that point whether Teller was in charge of anything anymore.
I ran, and for a little over a year, I traveled in the Australian bush, let the hair grow out and wore the sunglasses and traveled with the hippies and whatever just disappeared.
Finally, I got hungry and had to come back in.
And when I did, I came in under an assumed name and worked for a while, but eventually they caught up with me because I applied for work in companies and had to show them my passport.
Okay, so that was their main concern that you were running around with information that you could possibly divulge to someone else?
unidentified
Well, first of all, I would be able to identify them.
I mean, I could identify, you know, like by name, the people that were head of it in the Aeronautical Research Center at Fisherman's Bend in Melbourne and in the Australian Club, who, of course, control the prime ministers of this country.
And there was a number of things that I was privy to that would be rather embarrassing.
But in their defense, let me say this.
Now that I've had time to think about it, if I'd have been in their position and they were holding the secrets they were and were under the pressures they were, I would probably have ordered my execution as well.
It's bigger than one person's life.
It's a really, I'm sure you would appreciate this, Bob.
What we're talking about is a cover-up of incredible proportions.
Were you able to continue your research or did they have all the requisite hardware?
Of course they did.
I did do some.
I did play around a bit what I could do.
But, you know, I didn't have access to high-temperature coating.
I couldn't put my barium titanate or anything else on the capacitive surfaces.
But that video you did with the little ship that had the thermionic converter on it, I don't know why you had to have an element, whatever it was, 1115, because we were quite aware that you could convert thermal energy at around 37 gigahertz on the sampling frequency.
You could take random heat and convert it into flowing electric energy.
I mean, that's how space thermionic generators just use plutonium to warm essentially a thermocouple using a Seeback effect or whatever to produce electrical energy.
However, the basis of the craft that I worked on, the electrical energy was merely a byproduct.
That was not how the entire craft operated.
That's where the 115 came in.
unidentified
Now, the other thing I noticed here is you were using gravity wave A and gravity wave B focus fields.
In the stuff we were working on, the field we would generate was in a toroidal field that would curl that's exactly how this was generated.
In fact, there's I just have some of the animators gave me some fantastic graphics that I haven't really been able to post anywhere, but I did want to put them up on the web somewhere because there are a lot of people that are interested in the actual propagation of the gravity field.
And I was just about to give those to the guys that handle our web page.
This is one of the wildest, most believable stories you've ever heard.
I wonder if everybody out there understands the significance of what they're hearing.
It's sort of coming out in a matter-of-fact way, but do you understand the significance of what you're hearing?
Take Standalo, for example.
Very much a religious person, a very devout Christian, and very much a truth teller.
And now Bob Lazar, and the same matter-of-fact kind of delivery.
But consider, please consider exactly what you're really hearing this morning, the implications of what you're hearing, what it means.
Gene and Bob, you're both back on the air.
It's kind of interesting when you listen to people like Stan and you listen to people like Bob, as far as we've gone with the story, it's all laid out in such a calm, matter-of-fact way that I think a lot of the public has a tendency to lose sight of the implications of what they're hearing.
But you've told the story so many times, Bob, that I guess it comes out that way, sort of in a matter-of-fact way, huh?
Well, if I remember, I have just met with Barry, and we're now going over things.
Let's see.
Well, this is, as I said, when I first realized exactly what was going on, what the implications were, and precisely what I'd be doing.
In the room, this is a lab off the main hallway, and in the room is one of the reactors from one of the crafts and one of the amplifiers from one of the crafts also.
It has a bottom plate and then half of a sphere on top of it.
The amplifier itself is about two feet in diameter, probably four feet long, cylindrical shaped, with something that would look like plates on the outside of it, black in color.
You know, these are very unusual, and essentially hollow.
Very unusual looking devices.
This isn't actually the amplifier that I always catch myself calling it that.
It's the emitter.
It's the device that is moved on a pivot and it's where the gravity wave actually is or emanates from, quite similar to a horn on a microwave system.
As it turns out, gravity waves behave a lot more like microwaves, at least the gravity waves that are being produced by this system do.
So you have waveguides and things of that sort that you'd see in a microwave system.
Those are the main components of the craft that were in the lab at that time.
Well, actually, you have to look and see what we really know about gravity.
And, you know, we really, as it turns out, don't know anything about gravity.
As people have said, we can certainly measure its forces or measure its effect on things.
But really, to this date, there is no, and a lot of people don't know this, that there is truly no conclusive evidence at the present time that gravitational waves have ever been detected in a laboratory.
Now, there have been several gravitational wave detectors built, and you can assume that they're detecting gravitational waves, but they can also be detecting many other energies or fluxes of energies from who knows where.
So it's something we can hardly measure, something we certainly know the existence of, but we know very, very little about it.
It's essentially a big hole, a black hole, if you will, in physics as we know it.
But in physics today, physics itself is so fluid, yet so many people, either true physicists or armchair physicists or scientists, whoever you run into, really stand their ground on theories, and yet most people tend to forget that these are just theories.
These are not facts.
This is a topic we know very, very little about.
And as I said some time ago, or the prominent theory was that there were gravitons, alleged subatomic particles that actually accounted for the force of gravity.
However, people that do bring that up really don't know much about that theory either, because there was never an actual particle called a graviton.
The whole concept behind a graviton was that because I'm trying to think how to put this in layman's terms, they basically wanted to quantify gravity.
Well, first was certainly not the electrical output of it, but it was showing me the gravitational field around the device.
Now, the only reason I started going off on a tangent about gravity is because I guess my whole point was that we don't have a machine.
There is nothing in existence that can make gravity.
I've seen a lot of people, just lay people, telling me stories about how they'll watch a film on NASA and how the astronauts are training and they're in a little chamber and they're floating around in a weightless environment.
They don't realize it's an airplane doing a crash dive.
There is no machine that makes gravity, I mean, at all.
Oh, no, that's extremely interesting, Bob, because as you may have seen, they've done experiments now in Sweden with incredible magnetic fields generated in a fairly conventional manner, and they have actually levitated frogs and plants and all kinds of strange little things.
When you mentioned to me the tremendous gravitational field and the effect on your biological hand, it immediately flashed to that experiment in Finland.
So there you are.
Anyway, so you put it in the middle of the morning.
But in either case, this was quite an impressive demonstration just in the fact that this is producing a gravitational omnidirectional gravitational field around the unit.
It was later connected up to the emitter in the amplifier where the gravitational beam out of the emitter can be focused.
This, again, was extremely impressive.
The gravitational wave or waves coming out of the emitter were focused into a small point and produced a little black dot in the air, hovering in the air.
Now this is not to say it was a black hole, but what it was showing me was that it could bend light.
Now the only thing that can bend light is gravity.
That's right.
A lot of people say, well, light can be bent, so on and so forth.
Usually that's diffracted or refracted.
But where you can only bend light is with gravitational waves.
So to me, again, this was another impressive demonstration.
but it really was a kind of a black hole well in the sense that it was absorbing at least in that way And you're also a black hole, a quantum singularity, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And we walked up a small rollaway stairway that led into the craft.
It was very cramped getting in the doorway.
The hatch was removed.
I really didn't pay attention to see how it was fashioned to it or if there were hinges or anything.
A lot of people have asked me that, but it was, you know, you don't spend time looking at how a door was connected somewhere when there's a flying saucer in front of you.
And if you notice, if you're looking at the model of the sport model there out near the equator of the disk, I mean, it literally comes to a point and it graduates as you go towards the center.
As you walk into the craft, first of all, I should address a few questions that people constantly ask me.
One of them is certainly, well, how did you feel going into the craft?
Wasn't it the most exciting thing in your life?
And I know I've said this a thousand times before to many other people, but it was not, the feeling at that time was not of excitement.
It was a very ominous feeling.
Very much so.
It was more of a feeling like it's actually I really can't describe it.
It's difficult to put into words, but it was a very ominous feeling, more like, are you sure we should be here?
But of course, after the fact, it was certainly exciting, but it was a very, very odd feeling because, and it was no pun intended, it was a very unearthly setting inside.
All right, that's a perfect place to hook them and hang them up until we come back from the news.
So everybody, relax.
We'll be right back.
All right, Bob Lazar and Gene Huffer, my guests.
I'm Art Bell.
unidentified
This is Coast to Coast A.M. You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, the night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from September 26, 1997.
Oh, it was beautiful, magical, and all the birds in the trees made me singing so happily.
Oh, joyfully, oh, joyfully watching me.
But then they send me away, teach me how to be sensible.
Magical, always sensible, practical.
But then they show me the company.
Thank you.
You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks, tonight and on-core presentation of Coast to Coast AM from September 26, 1997.
And it certainly is different from anything that you're familiar with.
And what I mean to say about that is everything is basically one color.
Normally, any area you're surrounded in is always different textures, different colors, so on and so forth.
The inside of the craft is essentially all a dull pewter aluminum color, very metallic looking.
There are no sharp right angles anywhere, and the description I've given before is basically the craft looks like it was just injection molded, essentially like the model was.
There are no seams anywhere.
Everything inside the craft looks like it was fashioned out of wax, heated for a short time, and then cooled to where everything basically melted into what was next to it, what it was sitting on.
That's about the best description I can give as to how the inside looked.
The structure of the craft, the skin from the outside was smooth.
Inside, this is very difficult to describe, but if you can picture yourself inside a disc of a flying saucer shape, and you're inside looking at the wall surrounding you, there was an additional structure, kind of a secondary wall.
There was kind of repetitive archways that looks like it was either for structural integrity or, as we later found out, something to do with the waveguide and the gravity amplifiers themselves.
But if you have the box there you're looking at, you notice what I'm saying is kind of difficult.
There's a little booklet that came in there that has a nice cutaway view of the craft, but it's very difficult to describe without drawing a picture or seeing something visual.
However, I did not get to go in one part of the craft, so I really can't say what was there.
But I do have a good idea as to what was.
Now, this was all on the center level.
Immediately underneath, there's a small breakaway part of the floor as you walk in to the craft over to the left.
It's a collapsible hexagonal, very unique doorway.
People have asked me, have you ever seen anything in any of these crafts, any of the technology that could be used today?
Something simple.
And that's certainly one of them.
Aside from the high-tech gravitational propulsion system, so on and so forth, something very simple to understand and easy.
And anyone that's taken a six-pack of beer or bottles or anything like that, you'll notice that if you push on the sides of the, you take all the bottles out, you push on the sides of the box, it all collapses flat.
And the floor itself was hexagonal in shape and made of little square hexagons like that, of thin metal, with a little notch cut out.
So basically to operate it, you just stuck your hand in the notch and pushed and the entire thing collapsed flat and left a hole open.
However, since you're when it's getting tangled with my words here trying to because there's so many other things going through my mind, when it's extended and the opening is closed off, it's a very strong structure because you're standing on the top of hexagons the metal is relatively thick even though it's a
They are positioned directly underneath the larger rectangular gravity amplifiers on the first level and are in fact connected to them.
The actual physical connection between the emitters and the subflooring above it, again, is something very interesting.
It's a short piece of pipe.
I'd say maybe 12 inches longer, maybe slightly, 12 inches long, maybe a little longer than that.
But this mounting flexes in any direction, but it's a solid piece of pipe.
It's something very, very unusual.
And we see the same thing being used on the waveguide to the reactor from what we could see by applying an electric charge to different parts of this structure, it would bend quite easily.
Yeah, it's again something very difficult to describe without drawing it exactly how this operated.
But it was not made of in a telescopic form where you'd see something like a car antenna where it would collapse down on each section would collapse down onto one another.
It was a solid piece, if you can imagine just a solid piece of pipe and applying an electric charge to it and having the pipe bend but remain rigid after it had done so.
Anyway, this compromised the or composed the focusing system for these three amplifiers.
They received signals from other parts of the craft.
The amplifiers would focus in on a certain point and this is basically how the amplifiers were aimed.
And the craft had, again, it's kind of a lengthy explanation, but there were two different modes the craft we found would operate in.
One is called Omicron and one is called Delta.
The Omicron configuration was the standard operating mode of the craft and it's where it used one single amplifier to maintain its elevation in the sky.
One of the other amplifiers was rotated 90 degrees and essentially pointed straight out ahead of the craft.
So, with one amplifier working, it essentially produced an anti-gravitational pillar to stand on.
With the amplifier that was rotated 90 degrees, instead of what we would normally think along the lines of propulsion, where a jet would essentially exhaust material,
hot gases out the back, where we would normally think along the lines of a propulsive force, what the craft did was essentially create a distortion in front of it.
So if I'm visualizing this correctly, it's kind of like the other mode, except far more intense, and you're constantly moving toward this warp or with this warp.
Well, you actually become part of the other space.
It's a pretty wild concept, but something that really isn't unknown to us.
As I've stated before, to most people this sounds like wild science fiction.
However, we know most of these things are possible.
We know, for example, as I stated in that tape, that we can see stars that are behind the Sun.
And the reason for that is the intense gravitational field of the Sun bends not just light, but it bends space around the Sun, and we can see some things behind it.
We know that not just, we know space, gravity, and time are all interrelated.
We know this for a fact.
We know that around areas of intense gravitational fields, time essentially slows down.
I mean, it's certainly been theorized that if one was to orbit a black hole, an area of tremendous gravitational distortion, a gravity will, for instance, that time would virtually stop.
So with all these things interacting, this is how you can travel a great distance with essentially no time elapsing.
First of all, you're bending space towards you.
By doing that, you're actually slowing time.
Not to say that this is a time machine.
It's just a byproduct.
Whenever you produce a gravitational field, whenever you're around an intense gravitational field, time slows.
that's just bob did you discern all of this yourself after long examiner oh no this was Right.
All right, and so, God, you've got...
Then your job, I guess, is to go back to the gravity amplifier and the rest of it that they've already got dissembled and try and back-engineer the thing or try to make it work with materials that we have here on Earth.
we're gonna try to get as much of the story on as we can in this next half hour and then we will open up the lines so Back now to Bob Lazar and Gene Huff.
Gene, basically the silent one right now, sort of helping out as he can.
let's see bob within the interest of time because you know that we could spend ten hours with this perhaps not before you fell asleep but uh...
And this is where I learned one of the reasons why I was hired.
Initially, our work started on the reactor.
We figured that's the center point of everything, and this is where we should really concentrate our efforts.
And apparently, that's what the people before me did, too.
Apparently, there was an attempt to analyze the operation of one of these reactors, and I got to read the notes that the gentleman before me had left.
There was a fatality, or actually three fatalities, if I remember, when they attempted to do this.
For some reason, they attempted to get into the reactor while it was in operation under load, and it was never very clear in their notes as to why anyone decided to do that.
However, again, in the interest of time, I'll cut this short.
But they did attempt to do that.
The reactor did explode, and the gentlemen were killed.
Well, basically followed in their footsteps up to that point.
What we did find was that the reactor operated, at least the lower part of the reactor, the base plate, operated like a little cyclotron.
And in fact, the first cyclotrons were almost exactly that size.
They accelerated particles to a high speed in a circular fashion along this base plate.
The particles were then diverted by electrical and magnetic fields up into a target area, which is what was inside the domed part of the reactor.
These, and this is now where we get into some exotic material.
One of the elements we identified in the reactor, we then found an element, a super heavy element, one that doesn't naturally occur on Earth and certainly one that we haven't synthesized.
This element was identified as 115.
Now normally the higher level elements, the ones that we have produced in accelerators, decay in a fairly short time.
In this case, what we were seeing was a stable element, one that was not undergoing any radioactive decay, which is very unusual.
However, again, this is something that science and chemists have already theorized, that there should be an island, essentially an island of stability for elements around the 114, 115, 116 area.
However, we certainly haven't been able to produce anything that high up on the periodic chart, but apparently this is what we were observing.
I heard a story, I think it may have been from John Lear, that, and this jumps us way ahead, but that you somehow got some of element 115 out of that area.
And most of the more recent work has been done in Darmstadt, Germany.
In fact, I believe their plan to produce element 116 is coming up next.
I think they plan on calcium or something.
Do you remember that, Gene?
unidentified
Yes.
I think they were going to fuse curium with calcium, and they were going to end up with element 116, which they then thought would decay in a chain of unknown nuclides and see where the island of stability actually settled.
But they are very close to attempting to pierce that island of stability and seeing what's going to happen.
However, producing one or two atoms of it really isn't going to let them determine how the substance is going to react.
But at least they're there.
They're almost to the point now where they can begin to look at some of these exotic substances.
unidentified
Right.
There are a lot of people waiting to see if they can perform any experiments or find this gravity A that Bob alludes to.
But really when you read, and I'm certainly a lay person, when you read on these, for instance, the website for the lab for heavy ion research in Dormstadt, Germany, you can see that they actually detect these atoms when they make them.
And getting an atom or two doesn't put them anywhere near having a quantity of it that you could hold in your hand and actually study for any macro scale type effect.
Well, you know, Bob had been on an on-call basis, and right when he got to the point where he's told you about up to this point, they stopped calling him into work.
And this was very frustrating.
He wasn't a fun guy to be around.
And what had happened is when he, as he told you before, he had to sign documents allowing them to monitor his phone and fax and computer and anything that came into his house over a phone line.
And to make a long, sad story short, Bob's wife was having an affair, and they found out.
And when they gave him his security clearance, they deemed him to be financially stable, emotionally stable, and just generally stable.
And so now they knew that he was going to be having some emotional problems, and they stopped calling him.
Ultimately, they heard his wife admit that she had had an affair to her mother over the phone, and she ultimately told Bob, and they called him in and Yanked a security clearance saying that they deemed him to be a sure candidate for emotional instability and that he could reapply again in six to nine months.
However, certainly they couldn't erase the, as I mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, the newspaper article at that time clearly stated on the front page of the local Los Alamos newspaper that I was a physicist working in Los Alamos Labs.
So, you know, they certainly couldn't go back and make that disappear.
Fear of death, fear of prosecution, fear of all together, and that was essentially what I was feeling at the time.
You know, at that time, I had nothing other than what I had said to anybody.
For the most part, if I suddenly disappeared off the face of the earth, nobody would have noticed.
Well, not only would nobody would have noticed, I certainly have friends and family that would have missed me, but no one would have known exactly what happened.
So I at least wanted to get what was going on out in the open.
And I believe it worked very well.
It was essentially a pushback against all the force that was leaning on me.
Where I thought if I just went on in a subdued fashion on television and maybe just said a little bit and just kind of gave a little shove back, they would lay off.
And perhaps it was a big gamble, but it worked exactly the way I wanted it to.
unidentified
Also, at this point when he was trying to show those around him what was going on is when he took people like me and his wife and John Lear out to the BLM land outside of Area 51, and we actually saw one of the discs tested in the sky.
Now, Bob did this after he told us the story, after he was in trouble and in fear for his life, he told those around him the story.
And obviously, we were a little apprehensive when a friend said, you know, we thought he was just working in some project for the government.
None of us really cared what he was doing.
And, you know, so he wanted to prove that, not that we thought he was lying, but it's still an outrageous story to tell your wife and friends and say, oh, by the way, I'm working on flying saucers.
The screenplay that you are now developing that is going to tell this whole story, Gene, when will this be manifested into something that we can go out and watch at the movies?
unidentified
Well, you know, I don't think Steven Stielberg could tell you that.
The fact is, the first movie deal, literally the president of the studio came to meet Bob and said, I'm going to make this movie.
Well, the atmosphere for it now, the way the genre has been going, has got to be just right.
unidentified
Well, they say that if a mediocre movie like Men in Black, and we all had hoped Men in Black would be great, but it was kind of mediocre, it did 230 million just here in the United States, so I would say that's more than encouraging.