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Sept. 25, 1997 - Art Bell

03:03:40

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Guy Finley - Life of Learning Foundation. Ramona Bell - Travel Tips

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	From the high, wet, soggy, hurricane-plagued deserts.
	That's right, we're having a hurricane, or the remnants of a hurricane, tropical storm, here in the high desert.
	Actually extending out in all directions.
	From the Tahitian and Hawaiian Islands, for example, eastward to the Caribbean, and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, south into South America, North all the way to the pole and worldwide on the internet.
	This is Coast Coast AM.
	Good morning.
	I'm Art Bell.
	You may have seen it on the news.
	We are having... We're having a tropical storm.
	Nora.
	Nora, Nora, Nora.
	She is dumping, dumping, dumping on us here in the southwest.
	And during the day, of course, came slamming into Yuma, Arizona.
	And Nora is headed north.
	And making much mischief as she goes.
	We just can't take that kind of rain here in the desert.
	And that's what we're getting, and I suspect throughout the night tonight, we will continue to get it.
	And it could be heavy at times, so if you're in the desert southwest, word to the wise, those out here know, we are subject to flash floods.
	Now, what that means is, That all of a sudden you can be in a wash area, and when you least expect it, a wall of water will come along and wash your body away, and you'll be nothing but a little lump in the desert under some sand somewhere.
	So, stay out of those kinds of areas.
	It really is weird.
	It is, of course, El Nino, and, um, it may not, it well, may not be the end of it.
	In other words, uh, The western Mexican coast may continue in the Pacific to generate hurricanes.
	We'll have to see.
	Usually, they get up and head toward the west or the northwest, out across the Pacific, where they cross the date line and become not hurricanes any longer.
	They become typhoons.
	And they get very violent, indeed, crossing the warm waters of the Pacific.
	The problem is that because of El Nino, the waters going north are warm, and with Nora, as long as she stayed over the central peninsula of Baja, she had access to warm water.
	And so, all of a sudden, things are different, and instead of reporting on hurricanes in Florida, or the eastern coast, We're now reporting on hurricanes out here, where we have cactus and desert.
	It's really, really weird.
	All right, I've got a guest coming up for you tonight, and we'll see where we go.
	His name is Guy Finley.
	And by the way, if you want to know more about Guy Finley, we've got a link to his website up, of course.
	Within moments of the show, so you can go up there to my website at www.artbell.com and read about Guy Finlay as you listen to him.
	In addition, I want to hit again the rogue market.
	Oh, we're doing very well.
	We are in the process of making people rogue dollar rich.
	Wait till you see the numbers.
	Go take a look for yourself.
	Now, when you go to my website, just on the left-hand side of the website, you will see the Rogue Market.
	Click on that.
	When you do, you'll go to the Rogue Market.
	Click on Market.
	And then you will have an opportunity to fill out a couple of forms.
	And you get 15,000 rogue dollars.
	You can then invest those rogue dollars in any one of, I don't know, 1,000, 2,000 personalities, public people.
	And they have one particular section, if you hit listings, that is talk radio.
	There you will find all of the major talk personalities syndicated across the country, of which I am one.
	And you can buy stock in Art Bell.
	Now, I really have to carefully explain here that you don't really collect dollars.
	You're not spending dollars, investing dollars, risking dollars, and so you don't collect dollars, except in rogue money, kind of like Monopoly money.
	But the rogue market is a blast!
	It is really fun!
	And if you buy a stock, my stock now, Art Bell's stock, You're going to, by the end of the week, be rich in world dollars.
	Now, you can win prizes, you know, t-shirts, coffee mugs, that kind of thing, when you have accumulated enough wealth.
	Now, obviously, the sooner you get up there and buy art ball stock, or any stock that is showing a meteor-like rise, the sooner you are going to become rich.
	Now, Sad, you might go up to the website and take a look.
	All right.
	Now, I want to also promo the fact that later in the program this morning, as you know, I'm going to Egypt and Israel and Rome and just all over the place, the Greek islands and all of that begins next week.
	And there are about 500 of you out there that are coming with me.
	However, What's coming up will be of use not only to those people, of course, specifically it will be to those people, but anybody who travels overseas.
	Now, we have done so very much of it that my wife has learned how to pack, what to take, or maybe even more importantly, what not to take.
	Most people tend to over-pack, and she's going to come on the air.
	It is a fairly rare occurrence when Ramona comes on the air, and she's going to give you some tips if you're coming along with us, or for that matter, if you happen to be traveling overseas at all.
	Any of you.
	So, you might look forward to that a little bit later in the program.
	Guy Finley.
	Well, the best-selling author of more than five books on self-development, Including the spiritual classic, The Secret of Letting Go.
	His works are published around the world in seven languages.
	He works for the largest producer of motivational audio tapes, who calls him the world's renowned expert at the forefront of human potential.
	Guy's writings are embraced and endorsed by doctors, professionals, religious leaders, celebrities all over the world.
	His non-profit Life of Learning Foundation has its headquarters in Southern Oregon, where he lives and teaches.
	Here is Guy Finlay.
	Welcome to the program, Guy.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi there.
	So, you have written now five bestsellers, huh?
	Yes, sir.
	That's a lot of books.
	I'm just beginning.
	Just beginning?
	Yeah.
	What caused you to start writing in this vein in the first place?
	Why?
	Well, interestingly enough, Art, I was raised in a show business family.
	My father, his name is Larry Finley, was really, is considered by many to be the Pioneer of late-night television talk show Before Johnny Carson and Jack Parr here on the West Coast.
	He had a show called the Larry Finley show strictly informal Music is my beat and it was the prototype for these television variety talk shows Was that a syndicated affair or on a single station?
	No, single station.
	ABC back then in 1951.
	ABC?
	Yeah.
	Alright.
	Do you have a call waiting guy?
	I do, but it's off.
	Okay, I thought I just heard it.
	Maybe I didn't.
	No.
	Alright, so he did a talk show for ABC where?
	Out of Los Angeles. Out of LA. That might have been what, KABC?
	Yes, KABC. All right, that's the very station I'm on in Los Angeles now. Right, right.
	And so Art, I was raised, my childhood friends were Desi Arnaz Jr. and Dino Martin and I
	ran with the fast track as a child.
	My parents, you know, I would ride in the Hollywood Christmas Parade and got hugs from Jane Mansfield, you know, the whole bit.
	But I was always confused from the time I was like six or seven years old with what I was being presented as the best life a person could have and the fact that virtually everyone that I saw within it, all of the adults, were very unhappy.
	and it didn't make sense to me.
	Well, it's my experience that great success, unless a person knows how to handle it,
	brings generally what you just said, great unhappiness.
	Yes.
	Ted Turner, who has Jane and CNN and baseball teams, I saw him once, oh, I don't know, 2020 or one of those,
	and he said, you know, success is kind of an empty bag.
	In other words, when you get everything you want in a material sense, you're left with kind of an emptiness.
	If your drive was to achieve owning baseball teams and news networks and all the rest of it, and you get all that, then what's left?
	Yes.
	And that's what I, I saw that so clearly, and yet, when I examined it as best I could as a young man, it became clear to me that simply pursuing possessions and power and the things that the world seems to urge us to do itself leads to nowhere.
	And so I began, really very young, a study of different kinds of Uh, thought systems of how a man could live and pursue something that wasn't tied to whether or not everybody else agreed you were something, you know?
	And that's what really started me.
	I think that I just did not understand life taken at You know what it appeared to be and what you should what everybody said you should be doing so I?
	Started to search around well if you look at America generally all across America We are for the most part not a spiritual people.
	We are a very very material people, right?
	that's exactly right and and this is a I think one of the pressing issues in most of the books that I write is is how did this come about because you know really our founding father is the Constitution and I don't want to get into it too deeply because I'm not I'm not a scholar of these things but we were not intended to be a democracy but a republic and you know all of this business based on the principles of God and lots of people thought it was divine providence that even got us over here so everything kind of went screwy in the last couple hundred years
	So you think we are not what our Founding Fathers intended for us to be?
	I think that not only are we not what our Founding Fathers intended us to be, Art, but I think that we've really lost the way.
	Well, our Founding Fathers, I think... I'm not sure I agree with that.
	Our Founding Fathers wanted us to be free, Guy.
	Yes.
	And we do have freedom.
	I mean, I have people on the radio saying all kinds of crazy things.
	And you can't do that in many other countries.
	We have newspapers that print editorials and speak their mind.
	You can't do that in a lot of other countries.
	I know that's true, and yet, and if you'll examine this with me, Art, I think we'll come up with something fascinating.
	You know, when you put lab animals into a certain condition where they can't escape their confines and they are overcrowded in certain events, Go on inside of those cages where they become stressed out, they become overly aggressive, all kinds of behavior begin to exhibit themselves because of the fact that they're captive.
	Well, I think that we can take those same behaviors that we see in these lab animals and look at human beings today And even though we have these freedoms to be able to say things and act out certain behaviors and follow our dream, as it were, in a physical sense, we're still exhibiting all of these signs of captivity.
	The hostility, the stress, the pressure, the breakdowns, all of the abnormalities that are surfacing are, to me, signs of a kind of spiritual or psychic captivity, if you will.
	And that's really what, you know, that's what The Intimate Enemy, my new book, is about.
	Alright, what exactly is The Intimate Enemy?
	Well, in this instance, what we're describing, and I beg of you, when I go too far afield, you jerk on my collar here.
	Nothing that we'll talk about, or that I'm going to say, isn't self-evident.
	Okay.
	We can't really talk about an enemy without describing something that that enemy is against.
	And what this intimate enemy represents is something within us that is keeping us from fulfilling what our real purpose on this planet is.
	In other words, we are intended to develop spiritually to become men and women of a different order of being and there is something that is definitely standing in the way something that is clearly obscuring not only the goal but the way to achieve it and that's what the intimate enemy is and then of course uh for lack of a better way of saying it it's our present nature it is this thought life
	It is who we believe ourselves to be based on our past experiences.
	And this whole package that is all wrapped up with our past experiences literally thrusts itself between us and this unfolding moment, the present moment, and it keeps us from seeing not only what is new and uncaptive, but also holds us in a kind of Uh, recurring, I call it the circle of self, where we keep repeating ourselves and repeating ourselves and making the same mistakes with different people in different situations, but basically going through the same pains, the same crises.
	So my work about... Guy, I'm hearing what I think sounds like call waiting.
	No.
	It keeps cutting out for some reason.
	Maybe it's our weather.
	I imagine it is.
	First of all, I shouldn't get any calls, but I have a special button on my phone that prohibits that from occurring.
	I see.
	Okay, well anyway, what you just said is very general and I'm not sure that I really understand it.
	Unless it all boils down to you're saying that we are our own worst enemy.
	Individually, is that?
	Yes.
	Essentially what you're saying?
	I'm saying that we have within us our own worst enemy.
	I'm saying that we have two natures in a sense, Art.
	That we have a nature that goes around and it thinks about what to do.
	In other words, you had to call me at a certain time and I had to be prepared.
	I had to think through certain elements.
	And that practical aspect of our life that thought handles is very important.
	I need to know how much time I need to make it from here to Washington.
	But when it comes to having relationships with other human beings, when it comes to the creative skills, when it comes to the diving deeper into our spiritual life...
	This thought nature not only is impotent, but it actually stands in the way of us experiencing ourselves and this life the way we're intended to.
	Well, you're saying modern life screws us up and keeps us from, I'm trying to simplify this, but that the everyday modern life, buzz of modern life, getting from here to Washington, getting on the plane on time, doing business, doing whatever we have to do every day, is preventing us from Being in touch with our own spiritual nature, is that about right?
	Yes, but we can refine it more.
	Because it's not just modern times.
	I mean, the times that we're in themselves are a reflection of this present nature that's operating in us.
	Everything faster.
	Oh yes.
	Everything more.
	And there is that kind of quality to our life That keeps us going after more and more things to give us the feeling that everything is alright, that our life is complete.
	But what I'm saying is that the nature itself that's pursuing this sense of completeness, Art, This nature itself is incomplete.
	It can never find what it is looking for.
	All it does with all of its seeking and pursuing and obsessing and the things that we find ourselves doing trying to make life work, just keep it alive at the expense of What could be our real life, or if you will, us living from our authentic spiritual nature, our timeless nature, our light nature, Christ nature, whatever words one wants to use.
	The issue is that there are very distinct lines between this part of ourself that is always trying to get its hands on something in order to feel real and complete.
	All right, Guy, hold it there.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We'll be right back.
	Happens to be in Oregon, and again, we've got a link to his website on ours.
	And so you can go read about what he is now talking about, which is the intimate enemy guy.
	Are you there?
	I am Art.
	All right.
	I'm going to try to pin this down a little bit now.
	Uh, you're talking about that which is within us.
	In other words, that we are always at war, in a sense, with ourself.
	I use the word war, you use the word intimate enemy.
	Yes.
	Now that is what you're talking about, right?
	We're at war with ourselves?
	In a manner of speaking, very much so.
	And of course, I think that everyone listening can recognize what it's like and how that feels.
	Uh, simple examples of being at war with ourself are something as simple as, uh, wanting to order fried chicken and then in comes a voice and it says, yeah, but that's not good for your heart.
	Or something as dramatic as, uh, thinking that someone has hurt us and that the only recourse we have is to attack them back.
	And then another part of us comes in and says, yeah, but we shouldn't do it.
	Remember Jiminy... Do you remember Jiminy Cricket, Art?
	I don't have that voice, Guy.
	I'm a believer in revenge.
	How about that?
	Uh-huh.
	Well... And I seek it.
	In other words, I don't go and do anybody harm.
	I'm a... In a lot of ways, I'm a great libertarian, and I feel that people have a right to do exactly what they want to do, and that's what this country, in my opinion, stands for.
	However, when they come and Get their fist in my nose, I put my fist back in their face, guy.
	Do you have a problem with that?
	Well, I don't know that that's the answer, Art.
	No, it's just mine.
	Yes.
	I think that part of what we're talking about here is all of us, to one degree or another, want to have that kind of control in our lives.
	Where people don't come up and do those things to us, and if they do, where we don't feel threatened or we feel able to respond in such a way that puts us back on top of the situation.
	Do you agree with that?
	I'm not exactly sure what you just said to me.
	What I'm saying is that we want to be in control of our lives.
	That's correct, yes, and I feel very much in control of mine.
	And what I'm saying is, while The religious man of the past may have turned the other cheek, I don't.
	And you're saying I should?
	No, I'm saying that I think that it's possible for a man to see that when he is in the grip of anger, or any state like that, that it feels to him at the moment as though he's in control, but a little self-examination would show that it is the negative state that has the command at the moment.
	And so he's not really in charge of his life?
	Yes, but Guy, it's not an unreal negative state that I'm in.
	In other words, if somebody has wronged me in some way, I don't like people who lie, I don't like people who steal, I don't like people who break faith with me.
	Agreed.
	When they do, I react.
	I understand exactly what you're saying, and I agree.
	Those are all very distasteful characteristics in human beings.
	But when we respond, Art, with an angry or hostile state ourselves towards people that have done that, number one, we think that we're going to teach them a lesson, which we don't.
	We don't teach people lessons.
	All that happens... Look, Art, there is something in us that convinces us when we're angry or frightened or anxious, that if we will do what it tells us to do, that we will be free of that feeling that we have of having been wronged.
	Can I tell you a quick story?
	Sure.
	This is true.
	I had a friend who went on one of those small, they're not like ocean liners, but they're kind of like for 30, 40 couples.
	Yes.
	And the first day out, he got seasick.
	And the second day out, he was seasick.
	And the third day, The captain came up to him and he said, you know, sir, I think I know what's wrong with you.
	This is, I love this story because it exemplifies what I'm talking about.
	And my friend said, well, what in the world could it be?
	And the captain reached over and he took off, my friend had on these green aviator glasses.
	Yes.
	And he took the glasses off my friend and my friend got over his seasickness.
	He was seeing everybody in shades of green on the ship.
	So his perception was actually giving him his experience on the boat.
	And what I'm saying is that there's something in us that perceives life one way when we can learn to realize that this part of ourselves that looks out and sees anything such as an attacker or anybody trying to hurt us, I'm not talking about physically attacking us, But that someone says something cruel about us, we can realize that my perception of that event is what's punishing me, not what the person did.
	And once I start to understand that it's my perception, and my perception is all based on my past ideas about myself, who I am, how I think I should be treated, bad experiences, good ones, all of that, all of that filters through, and I look at my present experience through these filters, And then I fight with life to make it conform to what I think it should look like.
	All right, let me give you an example.
	Okay.
	All right?
	When I, uh, many years ago, I don't know, maybe a decade ago, I had a dog, a golden retriever.
	Yeah.
	That was a love of my life guy.
	Yeah.
	And I went on vacation.
	And when I went on vacation, I talked to one of my neighbors.
	Um, and asked him, uh, to take care of my dog.
	And he said, yes, of course I'd be glad to.
	I said, there's just a couple of things.
	One, no matter what, She doesn't go out.
	Right.
	In other words, she's not street wise.
	We don't let her roam in the street.
	And if she gets in the street, she's going to get hit by a car or something.
	You know, I don't want that to happen.
	Oh, I promise.
	I absolutely promise you this dog will not see outdoors.
	Right.
	Except on a leash.
	Right.
	So this person ended up taking my dog on a trip out into the middle of the desert.
	um in a camper and released my let my dog out to go run free out in the middle of the desert in an area my dog had no had never been before yeah on the highway and got hit and killed by a car now when I came home guy uh this person was extremely Uh, defensive and unwilling to apologize, unwilling to give any words of any kind of comfort or anything else.
	And I went after that person, guy, and I got him.
	Yes.
	In every way I could manage to go after that person, that was my intimate enemy.
	And that's revenge.
	And I won't go into the details, but I assure you, I got revenge.
	And that's probably a fault and the kind of thing you're working against, but that's me.
	Well, I'm not working against it.
	And you know what?
	Anybody that can't empathize with you isn't a human being.
	My God, what a terrible thing.
	I know, but you're still saying, in essence, turn the other cheek, is what you're saying.
	Right.
	I am saying, Art, yes, turn the other cheek, but I'm saying don't turn the other cheek because of this picture of being someone who turns the other cheek.
	Learn to awaken the part of yourself that is Awake enough, intelligent enough with a capital I to never hurt you.
	See, it hurts Art.
	It hurts Guy when he is on fire with anger towards someone.
	It hurts me, let alone the other person.
	It hurts me when I'm anxious.
	Let's say I was anxious about being on the show tonight because this is a huge program.
	If I allowed the anxiety to tell me how to behave or what to say, I would not only wind up racing through things that didn't mean anything, but in an effort to win, I would defeat myself.
	But the worst part of the defeat would be letting that anxious state live inside of me and tell me who I am.
	And that's all I'm saying.
	I'm saying that there is a part of our nature, our true nature, our God-given nature, that never would consciously hurt itself.
	And when we are in a negative state, we are hurting ourselves whether we see it or not, And it is possible to awaken inwardly enough to become conscious of these moments so that this other part of ourself begins.
	Now listen, because this is the big part.
	See, my book, The Intimate Enemy, is really interactive.
	It has these new pieces of knowledge in it that say, listen, it's time for us to get
	rid of all of this ridiculous talk.
	You know, everybody talks about creating their own reality and all of this new age business
	that has a basis of truth in it, Art, but that when push comes to shove and someone
	does something to me or the news gives me, for instance, everybody realizes that the
	world is going through some major changes and it's going to go through them over the
	next dozen years or so.
	There's no question about it.
	Fear over that situation makes me impotent towards...
	Being awake towards any kind of influence that might want to give me some new information about the upcoming decade.
	So all I'm trying to say is that we can live from something that won't hurt itself and have the experience of that new nature taking us away from these states and self that we've been living from.
	I hope that made some sense.
	Well, in a general way it did.
	Yes, the world is going through some very tremendous changes in the next decade, maybe even earlier.
	I am an observer of that.
	I wrote my own book about that.
	There's no question about it.
	But I'm not exactly sure what it is you're saying with regard to how we can Make it through that on a personal level.
	It seems like you're saying that we have to swallow or become... I don't know.
	It just sounds like turning the other cheek to me, and I... If it's more complicated than that, that you're saying that, for example, if I just reconcile something bad that somebody does to me... No, no, no, no.
	Listen.
	Alright?
	If I'm... If I'm angry with anyone... Yes.
	First of all, that is not saying that someone didn't do something stupid.
	That man or woman, whoever it was that did that, it's inexcusable.
	Art, I absolutely couldn't agree with you more.
	Well, if they do something stupid that affects themselves, that, from my way of looking at it, is their freedom.
	They're free to do that, to be stupid.
	However, if their stupidity ends up stepping on my toe, I'm stepping back.
	What I'm saying now is that when you reach out to step on their toe, before you can step on their toe, you have to have stepped on your own.
	And if you can wake up at the moment that you're doing that, And see that a great deal of the pain you're experiencing has to do with an internal battle that's going on within you and see it.
	Art, I'm talking about not thinking about this.
	I'm not talking about reconciling.
	I'm not talking about forgiving based on an image of being someone who's kind and compassionate.
	I'm saying be awake to the fact that these negative states possess us And that when they possess us, part of that possession promises the relief from the pain that possession is putting on us if we'll do what it tells us to do!
	and we wind up spending our whole lives serving these negative states in an effort to free
	ourselves from what we don't have to have if we would simply see their presence for what it is,
	which is an intrusion, an imposition in our moment-to-moment life.
	I think that I know a lot of people, Guy, that are angry people.
	They just have anger.
	They generated themselves.
	If there's not a reason for being angry, they get angry.
	That is very destructive.
	And in my opinion, and very self-defeating, because when you get very angry, you tend to be.
	It's like you have blinders on or green glasses.
	It doesn't matter how you look at it.
	Exactly.
	However, not reacting to something that somebody does to you.
	Um, in my opinion is, uh, wimpy.
	I don't think that I, uh, I, I, I suffer in any way by reacting rationally, uh, in return to somebody who has wronged me.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	That otherwise called revenge.
	Yes.
	Now you said a word that I want to, Touch on.
	You said reacting rationally towards a situation.
	Yes, there's rational anger and there's irrational anger.
	All right.
	I would say, is it not possible, and will you not think this through with me, Art, for the benefit of ourselves and everyone that's listening, could it be that there is something higher that a man can do at a given moment Beyond that witch is that flood of thoughts and feelings that come up in him.
	And I'm going to say to you again, Art, I empathize.
	I know what that would feel like.
	I've had similar situations happen.
	People do the stupidest things.
	It's almost unbelievable that they could do that.
	But Does it make any sense for me to then hurt myself because they did something?
	No, I don't feel that way.
	I don't feel as though I hurt myself at all.
	There have been a number of instances, some which I really can't go on to here in the air, in which people have wronged me in some severe way.
	And believe me, I went back and I got them.
	And when it was over, I felt real good about it, guy.
	All right, let's look at it at a slightly different angle, and I want you to know, Arlan, I promise you I'm not trying to change your thinking.
	I'm asking you to think this through with me.
	I'm trying to do that, and I can promise you you're not going to change my thinking.
	Well, let's add a little more light to this.
	Let's look at it from a slightly different angle.
	Sure.
	You and I will agree that we have all seen, in fact, you just said that you know people who are angry all the time.
	Right?
	Yes, irrational anger.
	In other words, anger that wells up from seemingly no place without a causative agent.
	And when that anger is upon those individuals, you can clearly see that they are not calling the shots.
	Do you agree with me?
	Absolutely.
	Okay.
	Now, I'm saying that when we are angry, regardless of what has caused it, that there is something in us that is calling the shots, That we say is us.
	That says, I am art.
	I am going to get even with this guy because of what he did.
	But the only way we would ever know that, whether that's true or not... Are you a married guy?
	Yes.
	If you came home and your wife was crying on the couch and somebody had raped her, what would you do?
	I don't know.
	You know what?
	I stay away from those kind of questions.
	Why?
	Why?
	It goes right to the heart of what you're talking about.
	Because we have so many pictures and ideas about ourselves, Art.
	I would like to say to you, well, you know what?
	I have a feeling that I would just go absolutely ballistic.
	You know, that anybody that hurt my wife, my poor sweet wife, may God help them from my wrath.
	Yet, even as I say that, I know in my heart of hearts that turning towards any other human being with an intention to hurt them Is the wrong thing to do!
	It is why the world... Yeah, here we are.
	Alright, so guys, see, you know what I'd do?
	Huh?
	I'd get a gun and go put a bullet in the bastard's head.
	Yeah.
	See?
	Yeah, and you know what?
	Maybe I don't know what I would do.
	I can't think it through.
	I just know that in my, at my present level of understanding, what I have come to see, that there is no separate self, really.
	And that anything that I do towards another human being, I do it to myself before I do that.
	And I'm not saying, God, I wish you could see me so you at least understand the emotional expression on my face.
	I am not saying that we are to condone the psychotic society and the evil and the sickness that's going around.
	By God, no!
	But I'm simply saying that there are higher ways for us to deal with these things, which, instead of, and here, look, will you agree with me on this?
	That men and women have been answering those kind of, uh, injustices throughout all of these centuries, and we have not changed the kind of human beings we are, even in the slightest way!
	The same problems exist!
	Which proves that the solutions that we have towards those problems aren't real solutions, but somehow are secretly continuing the problem itself.
	And if we can begin to even think that that's a possibility, I think it's incumbent on us to wonder, well, maybe what I know to be true in this situation isn't the right answer.
	Maybe this isn't the best approach.
	And that's not to say that we're not going to fall down, because, you know, we can decide for ourselves, as I urge people who read my books, listen, I'm going to try to live not only by not expressing this negative state, but I'm not going to repress it or deny it either.
	Instead, I'm going to be awake to it within myself and experience what that negative energy is doing in me in the moment.
	All right, all right.
	Negative energy.
	We'll pick that up after the top of the hour and that's where we are right now.
	I'm here.
	All right.
	Let me try and pin this down a little bit when we're talking about anger.
	I contend there is a rational anger There is an irrational anger. I delineate between the two
	and the way I do that is that I Rarely I I almost never
	Just get angry for the sake of getting angry unless I have been wronged by somebody else in some way
	I don't get angry and I realize that Whatever is going on is inside of myself and I am able to
	deal with that But then there is a rational anger and that's where I think
	we differ guy when somebody truly wrongs me. I I go back on them. I
	I... I...
	I I get them back.
	I don't just let it stand.
	I don't somehow deal with it in some touchy-feely way within myself and And try to get rid of the anger.
	I go back and I get them, Guy!
	So, I'm trying to figure out what we're talking about here.
	Rational versus irrational anger.
	Yes, I'm trying to look at this in a way that... I want to take it out of the context of this particular event that we're describing.
	Because when we talk about events like the one that happened, it seems all too logical for us to return in kind what was done to us.
	Instead, what I'm working here very hard to say is that what I think we really want, Art, and you may say, no, that's not what I want, if it's not what you want, I think what we really want is to be free of this nature that can be.
	Well, I guess what I'm telling you is, when somebody is wrong to me, and I go back and I get them, I am free, guy.
	Ah.
	All right.
	All right.
	Now, you could... All right.
	And I'm saying that you are free until the next event.
	That's right.
	All right.
	And I'm... What I'm trying to say is that we have another kind of nature, Art, That is free independent of events.
	Not that is set on fire and that because of that pain and it is and will you agree with me that when when there's anger there's pain there?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	What I'm trying to say is that that pain that is in there and all the pressure that it's bringing It always will have something or someone that it will say has made it feel that way.
	And I'm not saying the person didn't do the stupid thing.
	I'm just saying that we don't get free of that pain.
	All we have is a momentary escape from it until another condition pops up that then takes us over in one fashion or another again.
	Okay, but, alright, I'm going to give you another example, and I would rather deal with specific examples so we can all understand what we're talking about, alright?
	There is a certain city, now I'm on the radio, I do radio, so that's, you know, probably the kind of example that I'm going to be giving you.
	There is a certain city in which, oh I don't know, two or three years ago, I wanted to be on a certain radio station.
	And I went to this person who headed this radio station and I said, believe me, the show's going to work.
	It'll really take off in your market.
	It'll work very well.
	And this person told me, you're wrong.
	Your show is never, ever going to work or be popular in our market.
	So I didn't get on that radio station.
	Instead, in time, I got on a competitor radio station.
	Right.
	And I buried this other guy alive.
	Yes.
	And so I sent him a copy of the survey that came out.
	And when I did, I felt great relief and great satisfaction.
	And I felt complete.
	I'm going to take another tack.
	You ready?
	Sure.
	All right.
	But you must be able to say with all honesty that you see what I'm saying at this moment.
	Every moment of our life, in fact right now while you're speaking with me and I'm speaking with you, my experience of this moment as your experience of the moment Is made up of what I am in relationship with in this given moment.
	Do you follow me?
	I'm in these certain thoughts and feelings that are going through me.
	It's about 70 degrees outside here in Oregon right now.
	The lights are on in my office.
	All of these things I am in relationship with in this given moment and my experience of my life Is itself connected to what I'm in relationship with in any given moment?
	Do you see what I'm saying?
	Yes, but I guess I don't know what it means.
	In other words, you are experiencing your environment is what I get out of it.
	No, not just my external environment.
	I'm saying that my experience of myself, of Guy right now, In fact, the listeners can join in and do this too.
	If we kind of wake up for a little minute here and we take a little inventory of ourselves, what kind of thoughts and what kind of feelings we're having, we can see that the overall experience we're having is born out of the relationship that we have with the kind of thoughts and feelings that are going through us.
	Isn't that true?
	I suppose.
	Okay.
	Now, I'm saying that at any given moment of our life, that's what our experience is.
	What we are in relationship with, the kind of thoughts, the kind of feelings, and more specifically, the kind of energy that those thoughts and feelings are coming out of.
	Let's say You keep talking in such generalities that I have a hard time relating to it, Guy.
	Let's say that you are not an author, and that you're working in an office, and you go into work in the morning, and your boss, because there has been a personality conflict, says, Guy, you're fired.
	You're out of here.
	Here's your pink slip.
	Today you're gone.
	Now, if you have been doing a good job, And there is no reason for your being canned, other than the fact that he doesn't like the cut of your nose or something.
	Yes.
	How do you handle that guy?
	Alright.
	What I'm saying about being in relationship... Now watch.
	Here are two completely different scenarios.
	Scenario one.
	And I have a feeling, Art, that we're describing maybe what Art would do.
	I would get... My nose would get crooked.
	I'd start to fume.
	I would feel that an injustice had been done to me.
	I would go and I would tell other people what an idiot this guy is, what he just did.
	In short, I would do what I have always done in situations where I feel an injustice has been done to me, which is to lash out in one form or another towards what I think is causing me this pain.
	That's one way.
	At that moment that I'm doing those things, Art, look at what I'm in relationship with.
	Look at what my experience is.
	I am not only Poisoning and punishing myself with these energies that I am accepting as mine and embracing, but anyone that runs into me.
	Anybody that I talk to, I am throwing all this out at them in an effort to get rid of the pain.
	Now, the single point I want to make about that approach to life is that that keeps happening and happening and happening because the nature that meets those moments like that can't do anything different than that.
	That's its full arsenal.
	Now let me tell you what Art Bell would do.
	Art Bell would go across the street or to the guy's competitor or go into business for himself and drive the other guy into the ground.
	That's what Art Bell would do.
	Okay, now, I'm with you until we get to the drive the other guy in the ground.
	Why?
	Because what you're saying is that... That's capitalism, Guy, that's... I know, I know, but what I'm saying here is that spiritualism is much deeper than capitalism.
	Well, when I drive him into the ground, business-wise, I will feel a great spiritual uplifting.
	You will feel a sense of victory, but I don't know how spiritual it is, Art.
	Listen, let me give you the second scenario, because you asked me for concrete things, okay?
	Yeah, indeed.
	So then there would be a second way of reacting to this, which would be... The second way would be, at the moment that the man does that, to come wide awake, to come to myself completely, and to, first of all, catch That feeling, as it comes up inside of me, that starts to say, you know what, I gotta go tell that guy off.
	Just to be aware and awake.
	Now, listen.
	When... Oh, I know, Art.
	Yeah, but I didn't say I'd tell him off.
	I don't react that way, guy.
	I don't talk.
	I do.
	Well, that's good.
	But that's good.
	We have no argument there.
	That's the right thing.
	The right thing to do is to not let the past dictate to you your present moment.
	Oh, I agree.
	That's what I'm saying.
	I agree.
	Each moment is a different moment and requires a different reaction.
	That's it.
	And that's what I'm saying is that when we can be awake to this, what I call, intimate enemy, these green glasses, this life that looks out at the present moment and meets it from who I was the moment before, when I can be awake to that, I don't have to take the choices that that nature gives me.
	I can have better choices, more informed ones.
	I know people, Guy, who, and it doesn't matter what business they're in, if something bad happens to them, if a competitor clobbers them, if their luck turns bad and the IRS audits them and their life is miserable and things keep falling on them, their reaction to that is, well, It's kind of a cosmic thing, and I'm not going to let it worry me.
	It's just the way life is right now.
	And they let it happen to them.
	To me, these people are victims.
	They might as well have victim tattooed right on their forehead.
	Alright.
	And that may be the case.
	I don't know these people, and that may be the case.
	Here's, again, let me try this slightly different tack now.
	Okay.
	I'm saying that we, as we presently are living, are all the time made in one way or another.
	Now, whether it's proactive or reactive to an event like someone canning me because he's the idiot, I am still letting that event determine my sense of self.
	And I'm saying now that we have a nature within us That absolutely does not have to look to events or people or circumstances, pro or con, to define us.
	And that as long as we're living from something within ourselves that is upset or set off or redirected by those kind of events in order to re-establish a sense of self that's been somehow injured, We are victims because that sense of self can never be established outside of what it's trying to do, because every change that occurs, and you and I know there are big changes coming.
	Talk about a change in sense of self!
	Everything is going to affect that.
	So what I'm trying to say here is that I am trying to educate myself and anyone else that is interested in a way to see through this nature whose sense of self is tied into everything that happens in the world and to find that self, capital S, That is absolutely confident and supremely so in spite of events.
	Now that doesn't mean that we don't respond.
	Look, I'm all for succeeding.
	I can't tell you how...
	Encouraging I can be when it comes to sending men and women out in the world in order to find themselves through the
	mirror that This life operates through but my god to to continually let
	every single person that looks the other way at us Caused me to have a new direction in my life
	That means that I'm their victim art and that's all I'm saying and that's I think we've touched on something
	significant here But I'm not sure in real life how that boils down to the
	way you react Let's go back to the last example we had.
	Your boss fires you.
	He's a jerk.
	You were doing a great job.
	So what does Guy Finley do?
	He wakes up.
	What I call waking up means we simply become aware of whatever thoughts and feelings may be going through us at that moment.
	Yes.
	We become observant of ourselves.
	Yes.
	And we can recognize In that awareness, Art, what is for me and what's against me?
	Do you ever go saltwater fishing?
	I have.
	If you were out in the middle of the ocean and you fell off of the boat, and you saw this huge fin arcing through the water towards you, and then you somehow heard that massive shark saying, Good afternoon, Art, can I give you a ride to shore?
	Would you, A, get on that shark's back, or B, would you be the first radio personnel to walk on water?
	You'd walk on water.
	Well, if I could.
	But I know better than that.
	You'd set the world record for the breaststroke, okay?
	If a shark were coming after me and I had a way to defend myself, I'd put a knife in his little gullet.
	That's right.
	If I could.
	Right.
	Even though it was telling you, no, let me help you.
	So what I'm saying now is that these states that we're talking about, these moments like when that man comes and he's the idiot and he's fired me, and something wells up inside of me that tells me to exact a pound for a pound on him, that that's a shark thought.
	But there is a rational and there is an irrational reaction to that guy.
	To being canned, uh, for no reason.
	Well, when you've been doing a good job.
	A rational reaction is, I think, the one that I gave you, and that would be, I'd go across the street, find the guy's competitor, go to work for him, or start my own business.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
	That way, that way you are not...
	Besides the sole intention of making the guy see he was wrong.
	Oh, that's part of it, though.
	I don't deny it.
	Then he owns you, Art.
	No, he doesn't.
	He does!
	Why are you doing what you're doing?
	No, no, quite to the contrary.
	Well, quite to the contrary.
	When I drive him out of business, or whatever, then, um, my, my internal, my intimate enemy is satisfied.
	There's a, there's a, I wonder if there's this Milton quote It says that who overcomes by force defeats but half his foe.
	And I think what that's alluding to is that there is inside of us... Let's take another example.
	What's your position on national defense, Guy?
	National defense?
	National defense.
	I'm for a strong national defense.
	Are you?
	And I'm for the... Incidentally, I'm for the death penalty.
	Well, so then if some enemy Oh, whatever that enemy would be, would attack us.
	You would not have hesitation in entering into a war, in going to war with them?
	Absolutely not.
	Okay, then I don't see how... I don't see how the two differ.
	One is at a personal basis, and the other is at a national level.
	Yeah, that's exactly it.
	And how are they different?
	One has to do... Wait a minute, guy.
	How are they different?
	In other words, The guy who fires you, you go across the street, you drive him out of business.
	That's war in capitalism.
	Yes.
	All right?
	Nationally, if somebody attacks you, fires a missile at you or does something, and you go back and you attack them, and you defeat them.
	Now, how are the two, though dissimilar, not analogous?
	All right.
	One, the first state that you're talking about, Where the man comes in and does that?
	You are struggling to re-establish your sense of self, of having self-worth, of being who you think you are in your mind.
	And I'm saying that as long as we live from that kind of mind, that kind of nature art, that can be turned over by someone's act, by someone's unkind or ridiculous comment, Then that person or that event is going to be determining my sense of self and the actions that that self takes.
	Well, you would be surprised how analogous though it really is.
	For example, Vietnam.
	It's almost a national shame.
	We went to war and we didn't really go to war.
	We went in a very half-assed way to war and we got a bunch of people killed because we wouldn't properly go to war.
	And we still suffer national psychosis because of that.
	Yes, we do.
	Yes, we do.
	But again, I'm... what I'm trying to do here and...
	I don't know if I'm succeeding is bringing this to a very personal level because you
	see there's a man somewhere in Georgia and a woman somewhere in Florida and that happened
	to them today.
	Their boss came in or someone said something that was cruel and all of our lives, Art,
	we have responded instantaneously from something inside of ourselves that when it felt threatened
	by what someone else did, the only thing it knew to do to restore itself was to cause
	another kind of pain.
	I can hear we're going to a break.
	Oh, we are.
	We are.
	So thank you for noticing that.
	We'll take a break here at the bottom of the hour and we'll be right back.
	You're back on the air.
	I'm back.
	Yes, you are.
	And let me read you a couple of faxes that have come in, and you can react to them if you wish.
	Alright.
	This goes back to something we first said.
	Hi Art.
	The killing of a rapist is not only revenge, it is necessary to eliminate individuals who have no respect for the lives of other people.
	True justice, in my opinion, Yes.
	Now, shall I respond?
	or whatever to be killed at the hand of the intended victim at the time of the attack.
	Rational anger is an evolutionary survival factor necessary for the continued development of the species.
	Call it dynamic evolution.
	Your guest seems to be promoting the same kind of thinking that says that the criminals are considered the victims.
	That's from Bob in Moxie, Washington.
	Yes. Now, shall I respond?
	Sure.
	Hogwash.
	Look, here's what I'm saying.
	I'm saying that in this instance, that this whole idea of this, of what we'll call rational anger, is a way in which we have finally come to the point where because we can no longer explain to ourselves what to do with these problems, We have found ways to accept these things.
	I'm not saying, Art, that someone who commits a heinous crime... I mean this from the bottom of my heart.
	I think that part of the problem with all of us today is that we don't understand all of the various levels of life that are inhabiting this planet at the same time.
	There are beings walking around in human bodies that aren't human beings at all.
	Well, I don't disagree with that.
	And I'd be the first one to pull the switch.
	The first one!
	So this has nothing to do with being weak-made and giving those idiots rights.
	They should have no rights.
	If they commit a crime, they should not have those kind of rights.
	But we're not discussing that.
	Okay.
	What I'm saying is, and I've figured out a way to get this across, I think.
	Okay.
	We cannot discuss these states like anger and fear and anxiety, these negative states, unless we put it in a context.
	I'm saying, unequivocally, that anger is a useless emotion if We understand what it is that we're trying to do with our life.
	Everybody has different goals.
	We are all sewn onto this planet with different things that we're attempting to do.
	But if a person's, if his or her intention is to develop a relationship with something
	eternal, to find this timeless nature that I believe is sewn into us and that we're meant
	to know while we're alive here, then these negative states are useless to that individual.
	They are useful to someone whose interests don't go along those lines.
	You know you told me you're going on a trip.
	You're taking 500 people right?
	Yes.
	And you said that you're going to talk about what's useful and what's useless to take on these trips.
	Yes.
	That's what I'm saying.
	I'm saying that on this trip To heaven, on this trip to Paradis, on this trip to our real life, on this trip to the Christ, whatever words we want, that these emotions, these painful, punishing, negative states, they are not useful.
	And if you'll let me have one more minute, then I'll let you jump in here.
	Sure.
	More important than that, I think that the biggest problem today, Art, is that we're coming up with all these explanations for why these negative behaviors are okay, because we just don't know what else to do with them.
	In my book, I outline what a man or a woman can do with these negative states, That is not attending to them at the level that the state is telling them to attend.
	That's the whole thing.
	We cannot, if, and again, it gets back to this, and I'm glad that I thought about that during the break, because useful and useless all depends on where we're going and where we want to go.
	And so if we want to reach something higher, In this instance, higher meaning to live from a sense of ourself that isn't tied to what other people do to us.
	That doesn't mean that we're incapable of responding.
	It just means that we don't let ourselves be defined by these energy states.
	Then those things are useless.
	And, you know, Art, I don't know, I don't want to kick it into another gear here, but, you know, one of the things that I talk about is that anger and fear And all of these other kind of negative states, they're mechanical forces.
	They have no life of their own outside of what they can get us to invest in them.
	And they feed off of us.
	And that it's possible, instead of being someone who tries to dominate these states out of existence, or do what these states tell us to do in order to be free of the pain they're causing, It is possible for us to take an internal stance, and this is not New Age, it isn't pie in the sky, it's as solid as... Did you ever see the movie High Noon?
	Yes.
	Did you like that movie?
	Yes.
	I knew you did.
	That was a great movie, wasn't it?
	Yes.
	Because he, at one point, he started to leave town because the bullies were too much.
	Remember that?
	Yep.
	And then he realized that he'd have no life That's right.
	let them push him around.
	That's right.
	And he went back into that town, and it appeared that no one in the town
	was going to help him.
	Right.
	But when they saw him go out against the impossible odds, his very action elicited those people to take his side,
	and they beat those idiots that were so cruel in that town.
	Sure I do, but the Guy Finley that I heard last hour is the guy who would have somehow dealt with his anger and left town.
	No.
	The Guy Finley you talked to last hour and the Guy Finley of this hour is the same Guy Finley.
	All I'm saying now is that I'm trying to show you that we can call on something within ourself That doesn't defeat the enemy the way we're used to thinking in terms of trouncing them.
	It defeats the enemy by revealing to us something within ourselves that doesn't know itself at that level, that doesn't look for itself in what other people do or don't do to us.
	This is what it means, Art, to awaken in this life, to become a whole human being.
	That's all I'm talking about.
	And so, I say that these negative states are useless and that popular psychology today has found all kinds of ways to rationalize the existence of them because we don't know that the only authority they have over us is our fear of them or our wish to let them... You're talking in such generalities.
	Give me an example of what you mean by a negative state.
	Describe a negative state.
	Okay.
	A negative state is any emotional or mental condition that gets you to do things that are against yourself.
	That's what a negative state is.
	I'll say it to you in yet one other way.
	This I don't think is general.
	A negative state, Art, is something that is useless.
	Something that when we do it, it really doesn't do anything except get us over the momentary hump, leaving us still in the hands of that self that will go through that exact same state again.
	See, that's not freeing ourselves.
	That's not succeeding.
	That's in a way kind of buying an unfortunate piece of time that's doomed to repeat itself.
	That's what I'm saying.
	Alright, um, here's somebody else.
	I understand what Mr. Finley is attempting to teach.
	However, in doing so, he is presuming that our human nature is inferior To his unattainable ideal.
	While I do not believe that we should let our id be our guide at every turn, I simply cannot fathom accepting others hurting me, or the ones I love, without exacting some sort of tangible revenge.
	We are spiritually driven animals, not saints.
	Mr. Finley seems to think he is among the latter.
	Christine in Austin, Texas.
	Yeah, well, I certainly don't think I'm amongst the latter.
	What I am saying is that we are presently meeting this life from a very physically oriented sense of ourself that has spiritual overtones when it's comfortable or appropriate to talk about these things.
	And I'm simply saying that our life is spiritually based And that the physical is the overtone, and that the inner is what determines the outer, and until we change the inner, nothing about our outer is going to change.
	Change our inner in what fashion?
	And again, Guy, I feel there are two reactions to being wronged, and it doesn't matter in what way you're wronged, let's just say you're wronged.
	One is a rational reaction, and one is an irrational reaction.
	Irrational reactions blind you, And do you damage?
	There's no question about it.
	But there are rational reactions to being wronged.
	A rational reaction to being wronged, in my opinion, would be to discover the parts of me that are set off by what anyone else does.
	Now, Art, please don't bring... I mean, it's your show.
	If you do, you do.
	But, I mean, If someone attacks my wife, I'd be the first person to jump in there fist-flaring to protect her.
	This is not a question of that.
	These questions about fighting to protect something have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
	I'm talking about... Well, you're not... I'm trying to be specific, and you're being very general, so if you can give me a specific example, as I have given you a couple of what I mean, that will illustrate what you mean, it would be very beneficial to this discussion.
	Give me a couple of specific examples.
	Here's a specific example.
	We're sitting in a meeting.
	Here's two men, or a man and a woman, sitting in a meeting.
	The man who's running the meeting says, OK, do you understand what I'm talking about?
	He says that to the group of people there.
	Yes.
	Now, ordinarily, people will sit and they will nod like they understand when they don't.
	You have seen that, haven't you?
	Yes, sure.
	OK.
	When I sit and nod and say I understand something that I don't, I'm doing it because I'm afraid to appear like I don't know.
	There's no other reason why I would say I know when I don't, other than I don't want to appear like I don't know.
	Well, there could be many reasons.
	You could be afraid of retribution.
	You could be afraid to question the person who might You know, can you, for example, if we're talking about a work situation, if you say, no, I don't agree, here's what I think, or if you say, I don't understand, you're going to have to explain this in some other way, as I'm doing with you this morning.
	Yes.
	Then that's, to me, that's rational.
	I don't sit there ever with anybody and just say, yes, I understand, when I don't.
	Okay, no, that's what I'm saying.
	Is that if there's something in us that's sitting at a table of art and says, yes, I understand when I don't, that what is telling me my behavior at that moment is a fearful state.
	And that that fearful state is protecting itself, not my best interests.
	That's all I... This is what I'm saying.
	That there are parts of us whose interest has nothing to do with what is truly useful for us, which is to grow.
	To develop.
	And that as long as we live from those parts, which we do as long as we are unconscious to their presence in our psychic system, Then we are going to be victimized, not by the person who then fires me when later I don't understand, but by that nature who said, yes, I do understand when I don't.
	I chain myself to a mistake-making machine whenever I agree that I understand something that I don't.
	And the machine is the problem, not the situation that brought it into existence.
	Interesting.
	Again, going back to the situation of being fired, because maybe it's a lesser situation than the rape thing we brought up earlier, so we'll stick with being fired.
	I know a lot of people who, if they're fired, they would be internally crushed, and they would go home and their egos would be crushed, rightfully or wrongfully, they would be crushed.
	And they would probably wallow in their own self-misery for I don't know how long.
	Yes.
	That is not how I would react, Guy.
	Good.
	That's certainly not the right response.
	It's not.
	I would react by doing.
	I'm a doer, not a talker.
	I would go out and I would indeed, as I said earlier, start a business or join the guy's competitor and competitively beat his brains in.
	And love every minute of it.
	And you're telling me that love, that enjoyment of beating him, is wrong?
	I'm saying that it is a mistaken perception, Art, of the situation.
	Look, I'll say it again.
	Competition, working to succeed, achievements, these are all wonderful things in our lives.
	I'm simply saying that if I live from a sense of myself that can be shaken to the core By any particular turn that the world makes, then it doesn't matter what I build for myself again when the world has taken a right turn.
	Because when the world turns left, I'm going to have to go through the pain of that again.
	I'm only saying, not that you don't start over.
	Maybe you have to start over.
	Persistence is one of my favorite words.
	But I'm saying let's persist at what's useful.
	Let's persist at what pays off.
	And what pays off is discovering our authentic nature, our true nature, that is not dependent upon what people think, that is not dependent upon the kind of house I live in, not dependent upon whether the world accepts me for my ideas or not, but that is successful because it already is successful.
	Art, that's what This God nature is inside of us.
	It doesn't need anything to tell it it's true and right.
	It doesn't need anything to confirm its greatness.
	It is greatness itself.
	And until we can find that and live from that as best we can...
	We're going to be human beings who are going to try to cut our own greatness in this world, carve our own empires.
	And I'm simply saying that when we try to carve out empires and greatness according to our image of those things, because that image itself is in time and the world that we're carving it out in is in time, we are going to go through those nightmares over and over again.
	So we're not really at arm's length.
	We're saying similar things.
	I'm just saying that there's always something higher than we can be doing that has to do with exposing more of this essential problem where we're identified with every thought and feeling about ourselves instead of recognizing that there is something beneath this particular life and nature that we have.
	That's very, very strong.
	Very calm.
	Very confident.
	And it doesn't have to let itself be taken over by anything.
	All right.
	We're at another break point.
	So what I'm going to do is, when we come back, I'm going to turn you over to the audience.
	Are you ready?
	I'm ready.
	Here they come.
	First time caller in line.
	You're on the air with Guy Finley.
	Good morning.
	Hello Art.
	Hello.
	Guy, how you doing?
	Hello.
	Where are you, sir?
	This is John.
	I'm calling from San Diego.
	First time caller.
	All right, John.
	The discussion was getting really interesting.
	I was almost getting frustrated myself.
	Seems like both you gentlemen are on the same track, except one's talking about extreme situations.
	The other one is talking about not so extreme.
	I've got over 20 years in law enforcement.
	I've been in the martial arts for approximately that plus a little bit more.
	And I can see all kinds of daily situations in extreme as well as not so extreme.
	So you can use all these philosophies depending on what the situation is.
	So obviously in a real extreme case where you have to pull your gun on somebody, You could choose either to shoot or not to shoot in situations that would be very emotional and very stressful.
	In other situations, you could control it by doing something different.
	I think that if you look at the type of situations that they are, that would determine how you're going to react, how much control that you have.
	I think that if you looked at a few of those situations, you could easily look at it and Obviously, if you have more control over yourself, you're going to be able to protect yourself, but you shouldn't let people walk all over you either, because that in itself is against the law of nature, because you won't survive if you let that happen.
	I agree with that.
	In other words, in irrational, lashing out anger, you're always going to nearly make a mistake or hurt yourself or hurt others or do something Really wrong sure, but there's also a rational reaction.
	There's a rational revenge.
	There's a rational Response to being wronged.
	That's what he's saying guy.
	Do you do you have any response to that?
	Well, I don't know if he's saying there's a rational revenge but I this is what I'm saying and I'm again, I'm trying to just dig a little bit underneath this and And this gentleman is a law enforcement officer.
	I hope that he will see this.
	All of us would like to know in the moment Of need, what are the best possibilities, alternatives for that moment?
	Who would argue that?
	Right?
	Right.
	We always want to know that.
	And so I am saying that we are presently living from a nature that only throws up, excuse that expression, that only gives us a certain limited number of responses to the circumstance.
	And that we can wake up and become conscious of those limited alternatives, and in the very awakening to the limitations that nature is giving us, By that alone we have one more alternative and that would be not to pay any attention to what we're telling ourselves to do.
	Alright, well let's take this law officer's situation as an example.
	Alright.
	He responds to a call where there's a robbery in progress.
	Yes.
	He walks in and some guy's holding a gun on the clerk.
	Yes.
	The guy swings around with a gun Bringing the gun to bear on the officer.
	Yes.
	There's only one rational response as far as I can see to that, and that is to kill him before he kills you.
	Well, since, you know, Art, I probably have to agree with that.
	I don't know.
	I don't like to take those kind of imaginary scenarios.
	Imaginary?
	Listen, my friend, that happens every day.
	The gentleman would tell us, I'm sure.
	He's here.
	Oh, are you there?
	I'm still here.
	Don't they train you?
	Uh, in various, uh, techniques to deal with crises in different ways.
	I really do.
	Okay.
	Yeah, but if a guy swings a gun around on you, officer... You know, Art, but, Art, Art, that's, we're being silly, of course.
	Let him answer, let him answer, guy.
	Okay.
	Uh, if the guy takes a gun and he's swinging it around toward you, officer, what... I've already done him.
	You've already done him.
	He's dead, right?
	That's it.
	Yep.
	No questions asked.
	No time to think about it.
	No time to... There is time to think.
	That's the whole thing.
	It's the training, the experience, and the background.
	You have split seconds... Correct.
	...and hundreds of a second... Right.
	And you react automatically, don't you?
	Yes, you do.
	That's self-preservation, and it's completely understandable.
	And it's also preserving the life of the other person.
	Yes.
	That's what law enforcement is about.
	Plus all the other people that are around me or behind me.
	Yes.
	I'm saying again, and I hope the point's getting across, Remove ourselves from this extreme situation where we act to preserve our lives and those we're invested to protect, and simply see that at any given moment, my nature is giving me the answers that it gives me, but there are always higher answers.
	That's all I'm saying.
	You need more choices.
	Yes.
	That's the whole point I think you're getting at, is that you have to be aware of all the alternative choices.
	That's right.
	And that one of those choices happens to first mandate that I'm aware of what I am being given as the only choices.
	Because sometimes, like, let's say you go on a scene, officer, and something's happening and you start to have a negative reaction to it because it reminds you of something that happened to you when you were a kid.
	But you can wake up and catch that reaction and realize that what it's telling you to do is not the appropriate action and there is a higher choice.
	That's understandable, isn't it?
	Sure.
	Okay, that's all I'm saying.
	That waking up in the moment to what our nature is telling us to do is the first order of business because it allows us to taste, to be aware of what we're being given as alternatives.
	And there are always higher alternatives.
	Except, of course, when someone's got a gun on them.
	Hello?
	Yes.
	That type of philosophy is very good and I think that you should touch on people Who really need that type of help, which would be the people who are like borderline suicidals.
	Those people have run out of choices.
	That's right.
	Those are good instances.
	But you know what?
	Most of us at any given point in our life can feel despair and despondent and frightened or anxious about our future.
	And at that moment, the same principle holds true.
	Because if I can realize that my despondency about my life is all coming to me from something that is measuring me against who I think I should be, then I can wake up and realize, hey, wait a minute.
	Why am I punishing myself?
	What I want to do is be free of this.
	And we can wake up and wake up and wake up and begin to change our lives from the inside out.
	All right.
	Officer, thank you.
	Since we're on that subject, let me expand on that a little bit, Guy.
	Yes.
	Suicide.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	I personally have very strong feelings against suicide and would not commit it myself.
	I agree.
	However, it is my view, Guy, that if somebody is sitting out there in a terminal condition, wracked with pain, absolutely is going to die a very agonizing and painful death, I'm a libertarian.
	As far as I'm concerned, if they make, and they can make, a rational decision to take their own life, that is their business, not mine, and not the government's.
	That's right.
	Or any other body.
	I agree.
	Okay.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Guy Finlay.
	Good morning.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Yes sir, you're on the air.
	Where are you?
	First of all, Champaign, Illinois.
	Okay.
	And this is my man, hi Guy, hi Art.
	I was wondering, Guy, do you think that anger, depression, frustration, are you saying that those kind of things are choices?
	I'm saying that it is a kind of choice that's being made by our present nature in the only way it knows to respond to the moment.
	But that we have something else within us that can recognize, in these instances, the futility of those states or the self-defeating aspects of them.
	For instance, when we're frustrated, have you ever, I used to be a carpenter, and you know, you get mad at a piece of wood and a nail.
	No point.
	No point, but where I differ with you guys is that I say there is a constructive anger.
	There is a constructive anger.
	Yeah.
	And I guess what I'm saying is that at a certain point, Art, I think that we can start recognizing that anything that is hurting us, burning us, that is a painful state like that, that it is in fact useless because, and again I restate this, because it's misdirecting me.
	See, I'm angry because of... Yes, but a properly directed anger can cause you to grow, Guy.
	That's where I wanted to come in.
	Sometimes I'll get stuck.
	I'll get in those situations and instead of maybe dealing with what I should have done, although it might get me in trouble, I'll think of something to say to a rebuttal to something that would have made me mad at the time, hours later, and maybe punch my pillow and never deal with it and never bring it
	up. I was thinking that maybe your book is probably for someone more like me than compared to
	someone like Art who was not afraid of that knock on the door if he was to be a salesman and not afraid
	of the answer no where I'm that type.
	I might get this book. What would you say to that?
	I'm suggesting that much of our life is spent with the view that we need to overpower
	situations that seem to be taking power away from us.
	Yes.
	And that the real situation is that we are listening to a kind of weakness within ourself that is describing our life to us that way.
	It's not a question of becoming more powerful than this world, it's a question of seeing through these states that are defining us.
	I will rationalize, you know, well I'm being better, this guy's being an idiot, he's maybe jealous of me, things like that, whatever, but I still come home pissed.
	That's right.
	None of that does anything, does it?
	No.
	Because I'm measuring myself, I'm knowing who I am, by looking at what other people are doing towards me or thinking about me.
	That is what Art said, putting a victim label on your forehead.
	Are you a salesman?
	No.
	No?
	Okay, well that was the example you used.
	Yes.
	Alright, and it's a pretty good one.
	Now, let's say there are several salesmen.
	I remember Death of a Salesman.
	You remember that?
	They all wallowed in jealousies and worries about each other.
	They were growing older and weaker.
	And in a very competitive situation.
	Now, my reaction in a competitive situation like that, if somebody wronged me, would be to go out and sell the hell out of things until I won the car or I won the prize or I got whatever I got.
	That would be my rational reaction to being wronged.
	That's what I call a rational reaction to being wronged.
	Yeah.
	And you turn it into something constructive.
	You channel it.
	There is certainly a bad channel for anger that takes you nowhere.
	And like, as you said, Collar, you go home and end up punching the pillow.
	That doesn't do any good.
	No.
	But if you channel that anger toward winning, that's what I'm saying, Guy.
	Yeah, and I think, to slightly change the metaphor, what I'm saying is that there is one kind of life that all of us are very familiar with, which is channeling these negative states into trying to be more productive and winning the race.
	Yes.
	And then there is the kind of life that I'm describing that is indeed not only possible, but I believe what we're here for, where we realize that trying to win those kind of races just spends our life I hear that.
	I hear that.
	by something that really has no essential value to it.
	I hear that.
	See, that's all I'm saying.
	I think I'm in the middle of all that because I get mad, but yet I rationalize my good behavior.
	What good is it to run a race and cross the finish line and get ready to get your trophy
	and bang, the starting gun goes again and you have to go run the race again?
	Yeah, I hear that.
	Yeah, but Life Guy is full of races.
	No, no, no, no, listen.
	Life, in fact, I spent a dozen years with a man that I thought was just the greatest individual.
	His name was Vernon Howard.
	He's an author himself.
	He wrote over 20 books.
	And this is something he said.
	He said, life is not a race to win.
	It's a school for our higher education.
	And I echo that by saying that this life is not a proving experience.
	It's a learning one.
	And that when we can meet the events that we do with a wish to learn something from them instead of try to extract a sense of self from them, then what we eventually learn is that who we are doesn't have to extract a sense of self from events.
	We already have a whole, complete sense of self that God gave us.
	I do understand what you're saying, Guy, and thank you, Caller.
	It's just, Guy, we are very different people, you and me.
	Yes.
	That doesn't mean we can't get along.
	No, that's right.
	No, that's right.
	I can get along with anybody very nearly.
	But we're very different people and my reaction to anger or to being wronged I think is constructive.
	You think that my reaction is destructive.
	I'm saying that Art, if what you do when faced with a challenging situation Is to turn yourself over to something that has an intention of making someone else wrong so that you can feel right, that that is destructive because that has made you a victim.
	No, beating them at their own game is not that guy.
	But then, Art, where does it end?
	It ends when you win.
	No, no, because life's going to bring you another situation like that.
	And I will deal with it, hopefully, in the same kind of constructive way.
	Now, I firmly understand the difference between constructive and destructive anger, Guy, but I suggest to you that you're missing the point that there is constructive reaction to anger.
	And that it's not all necessarily within.
	You're suggesting that it can all be settled within, and perhaps for some people it can.
	Yes, I'm saying... But these are the people who, in my opinion, more than half the time, might as well have victim tattooed right across their forehead.
	No, no, no, listen.
	Look, look, look.
	Art, I'm saying here that When a man tries to win the war, based on his idea of what the victory is, he's lost.
	Well, then you don't go to war.
	Then you don't try to win the race.
	Guy, we're at a break point here, so hold on.
	We'll be right back and there'll be more with Guy Finley.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Guy, you're back on the air, and here comes the audience.
	All right.
	Ease to the Rockies!
	You're on the air with Guy Finley.
	Where are you calling from, please?
	Hi, this is Dwarren calling from Hyattsville.
	Yes, sir.
	And oddly enough, I've had all three of your examples happen to me.
	And it's not funny.
	Yeah, I'm sorry.
	I have one question, though, from Mr. Finley.
	Yes.
	All right.
	If the person is not consumed with the anger or revenge, but turns their Anger or revenge towards constructive actions and, you know, it doesn't eat them up inside.
	Right.
	Is that bad?
	No.
	Apparently... Look, look.
	You want, you want, make an experiment with me and we'll help not only yourself but all the listeners.
	Do you have a piece of paper right there where you are?
	I certainly do.
	Crumple the paper up.
	I'm doing it at home right now with you.
	Crumple that piece of paper up if you can.
	Got it crumpled up?
	Got it crumpled up.
	Alright.
	Now, open your hand up and turn your hand upside down.
	And falls out.
	Falls out, doesn't it?
	Yeah.
	That's because you are in control of the paper.
	It's yours to do with as you want.
	I'm saying that when these angry or frightened or when these negative states come over us, they hold us.
	We cannot let them go, which proves that we are not the possessor of the state, but that the state is the possessor of ourself.
	Guy?
	I've had... I'm sorry.
	Caller, hold on just one second.
	I want to react to what Guy said.
	Yes.
	The crumbling of the paper, Guy.
	Yes.
	Metaphorically, let us assume that I am an author.
	Actually, I am.
	I've written two books.
	All right, let us assume that I'm having some writer's block or I'm writing stuff that I don't like.
	Right.
	And I get angry.
	And I take that piece of paper like this and I throw it down on the ground because I'm frustrated.
	And then I turn that frustration into constructive moves forward and begin to think and write what I really want to write.
	How about that?
	All right.
	You're saying to me This moment came, I got upset, I vented it by crushing the paper, and then I went on.
	And then I moved on, that's right, and I used that frustration, that adrenaline rushing through me in a constructive way, and I went ahead and wrote what I wanted to write.
	You should be able to identify with that, you're a writer.
	Yes, I am a writer.
	I don't know how else to do this.
	The piece of paper that I asked the gentleman, and he's still with us, all I'm saying is that we are able, we are created to be beings which ...are not dominated by any negative state.
	Whether it turns into what we call constructive or not behavior art isn't the issue.
	And that's what's happened to us, is that you're trying to... you want me to look at the side of it as saying, look, I got angry and it motivated me and I turned that anger into something positive.
	Yes.
	And I'm saying to you that that can occur, but that there's something higher than that.
	I'm not saying that we're supposed to be saints and not get angry.
	I'm simply saying that we can start to wake up to the fact that if I can't let go of something, or more accurately, if something has a hold of me, then in that moment, I am dominated.
	I do not possess myself.
	Something possesses me.
	And as long as it possesses me, it's going to do with me as it wants, with those ideas that it has.
	And I'm going to be its victim.
	And I'm just saying that part of what's wrong with all of us today, and I'm pleased you may say, not you if you want, but part of what's with all of us Is that we are, one bit by bit, finding our life in a condition where a certain mental or emotional state comes, and it has a hold of us so thoroughly that it will not let us go until we do what it tells us to do, i.e., grab the paper, throw it away, i.e., make someone sorry for what they did.
	And I'm saying that that doesn't resolve the issue, it just temporarily gets rid of that state.
	And that it's possible for us to go through those things where we have to go through that.
	Our life isn't meant to be that kind of experience.
	But to begin to use those kind of experiences to free ourselves from the nature that that happens to.
	That's what I'm saying.
	Caller?
	Alright.
	What you're saying... You're... Alright.
	What I'm saying is you want to think before you react.
	And what you are implying is you are just reacting.
	No.
	Your reaction... I'm saying, sir, that thinking is a form of reacting and that we have a part of ourself called awareness that is higher than thinking because it doesn't have self-interest.
	It's able to see what is good and what is bad without a past doing that kind of measuring.
	So that when we can come aware of ourselves at any given moment, it's the same as inviting into what may be good.
	You know, sometimes we have good thoughts, sometimes we do the right thing, sometimes we do the wrong thing.
	But regardless of the particular action, we have a part of our nature that is sound asleep, that we're not using, that's able to see in a much broader, healthier, holistic way, what we're doing to ourselves at the moment.
	And in that awareness, Find something that will not hurt itself once it becomes aware of what it's doing.
	That's all I'm saying.
	Like a knee-jerk reaction with the police officer that was on the line.
	Well, again, that's an extreme case.
	A man pulls a gun, he has no choice.
	He's instructed, he must do that.
	Let's try to get away from these extreme instances.
	You and I will rarely have an instance where someone pulls a... Well, of course, the world away is today.
	Yeah, who knows?
	Well, twelve years ago, I was A group of friends and I were assaulted with 2x4s.
	Yes.
	And I grabbed one of the 2x4s and chased the individual.
	My friend said, don't do it.
	They wanted me to call off the chase.
	And I heeded their response.
	At the moment, I wanted to beat the you-know-what out of the person.
	I understand.
	But you should really think before reacting.
	Now, you're saying we should not even think.
	I mean, it shouldn't even be at that level that we do not think, but it comes naturally.
	I don't think human beings at this point are at that point.
	Well, we are, I believe, intended to be, and all of us can.
	Look, have you ever been speeding Yes.
	Sure.
	That's correct.
	See?
	Actually, that's not quite true.
	realized what you were doing and slowed down?
	Yes.
	Well that wasn't thinking, that was your momentary awareness that revealed to you that your thoughts
	had put you in a dangerous position because they had you accelerating.
	That's correct.
	See?
	Actually, that's not quite true.
	The reason I let up on the accelerator is because I think I'm going to get a ticket if I don't.
	Yes, Art, that may be, but before you could let up and be aware of the fact that you might get a ticket,
	you had to wake up to the fact that you were breaking the law.
	Right.
	All I'm saying is that there's something in us, a true intelligence, That is capable of catching us breaking the law all the time.
	Right, we're right.
	But you set that up as though, uh, we're slowing down to save our own bananas.
	Uh, in other words, for safety reasons.
	And I'm telling you, the honest truth is... Oh, well, look, in your case, maybe that's so.
	But that's, you know, we all are different.
	And the gentleman, and I know I've caught myself speeding, and not for fear of a ticket, but because I realized, you know what, I was asleep.
	I was going over that conversation I had yesterday, or I was worrying about tomorrow's radio interview, and I started thinking, and as I thought faster, my foot got heavier, and thank God, something in me that wasn't connected to that whole process suddenly realized, whoa, slow down here, which wasn't me thinking, but actually came to me outside of my thoughts.
	Well, to me, I think, oh boy, another point off my license.
	No, thank you.
	All right, caller, thank you very much.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Guy Finley.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Good morning.
	How are you today?
	Yes, good morning.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	My radio is off.
	Good for you.
	Well, I'm hearing something in the background.
	What's that?
	That's my TV.
	I see.
	We hate TV here, sir.
	Oh, I understand that, but, you know, you always tell them to turn the radio off.
	Yeah, that's right.
	All right, let me modify that.
	Turn off all radios and televisions and noisemakers.
	Oh, okay.
	There's no point in rebroadcasting television here.
	Well, I leave both of them on.
	I see.
	Um, to try to get an example across is if there was somebody that murdered the rapist.
	Yes.
	See, you gotta look at the consequences.
	That person would make them less of a person than the rapist for killing them.
	Then you gotta face the consequences of going to jail, Spending the time, the money, whatever, then who's going to take care of the wife while that person's in jail, or the kids?
	So you've got to think of all that, the consequences.
	You're exactly right, you do.
	There's consequences in everything that you do.
	That's a big factor in life like he's been talking about.
	Well, he doesn't like these extreme examples, so I'm trying to stay away from them.
	But since you brought it up, you're absolutely right.
	Now, if somebody raped my wife, I assure you, under the right circumstances, and if I happen Right time, right place.
	In the middle of this, I put a bullet in their head, and yes, there would be consequences for that, and I'm quite aware of them.
	uh... there would be consequences also for not acting uh... to me
	those those can be worked out Uh-huh, well, that's you.
	Well, and as far as the don't go into the job thing, I worked for this company for eight years and the manager and I didn't get along at all and so he let me go and I had to hold back on everything.
	A month later, he got fired for sexual harassment.
	Cosmic justice, huh?
	Yep, and I didn't do anything.
	In fact, two days after I got fired, I got a job.
	Just to solve that.
	Okay, well, that circumvents a little bit the discussion we were having.
	And what I said was my reaction to a situation of that sort Would be to go across the street and go to work for a competitor and competitively beat that guy's brains in.
	And that's, according to Guy, a wrong reaction.
	In other words, a negative... Art, if you went across the street in order to become a better man, in order to improve yourself, in order to learn more about yourself, and because you did that, Your business surpassed your competitor.
	That's right.
	Then that's good.
	But to go across the street for the purpose of that makes you the dupe of the man that you're trying to dupe.
	Because your actions, what you are trying to do, has been given to you to do by the situation.
	I want To try and again bring us into this different understanding, and we touched on it just before the break, that what we're trying to do, at least as far as I'm concerned, if we're going to make this life a successful one, isn't to try to win these moments in our lives as the sole foundation of our sense of self, but rather
	To use this life and all of the various things that happened, almost like what this man was saying, to begin to teach us things about ourselves so that we're less and less the victim of those kind of moments where the world suddenly goes right when we want it to go left.
	It's always going to change.
	What we can do is begin to find something inside of ourself that rather than being punished by the condition or trying to punish someone for the condition, finds a whole different order of life that is quite content.
	Now listen, not letting people walk over us, but rather elevating ourselves to the point where other people's actions don't hurt us anymore.
	See the difference?
	One is this idea that I'm going to let people walk over me.
	No, no, no!
	I'm going to find that there is a part of our life, of our nature, it's God-given.
	It's the Spirit that naturally will elevate itself and elevate itself as we learn about who we are and who we're not.
	And part of who we are not is this self that is going to prove itself by hurting others or So-called winning the next race.
	Again, I say there is a constructive reaction to anger and a destructive one.
	Let me give you another example that perhaps you will understand.
	Let us say Guy's books are for sale in a store.
	The store owner takes a look at Guy's book and says, this is psychological junk.
	Get it out of my store.
	Throws all your books out.
	Uh, well across from him there's another bookstore.
	Yeah.
	And this, you go in and this guy likes your books and puts them in and they sell like crazy.
	Yeah.
	And the other guy across the street suffers because he didn't have guys books.
	Yeah.
	Um, is that constructive reaction?
	Wait, you mean that he's suffering?
	Uh, no, on your part is what I'm saying.
	Yes, of course it would be, but what wouldn't be constructive, what is destructive clearly Is to measure myself by that man's opinion.
	So Guy would not have a moment when he said to himself, Ha ha ha.
	Look at that.
	My book's selling like crazy.
	That guy over there was out of his mind.
	I wouldn't.
	If he wanted that moment, I wouldn't give it to him, Mark.
	Well, forget what he wants.
	I'm saying you.
	Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
	I'm saying to you that I absolutely unequivocally would never Set out to prove someone else wrong.
	Because if I did, I would be measuring my life by what I think that other person thinks or is going through.
	Okay.
	And aren't you the one?
	I know that you understand that we are not intended to be victims in this life.
	And I'm saying to you that we are victims of our own unconscious nature.
	What is... No, I follow what you're saying.
	I'll say it to you this way.
	What is unwanted by us at any given moment in our life is intimately connected to what is going on unseen within us.
	So that the relationship between having a completely wanted life is connected to seeing all of these parts of ourselves that are selling us down the river for the wrong reasons.
	Alright, where is your current book available, Guy?
	The Intimate Enemy is available and every major chain has it.
	It came out September 1st.
	They should be on the shelves.
	If they're not, they'll certainly be there or they can be ordered.
	Sometimes it takes a little time, so if people go in and don't find it, they've got to ask for it to be ordered.
	And of course, people can visit my website at www.guyfinley.com uh... all lowercase one word guy finley and my foundation
	up there all of these things are available
	uh... and we've got a little link on our side as usual to your so it'll go okay
	uh... and and that's it and all of my books and tapes are very inexpensive my
	foundation makes them that way so men and women can get their hands on this material to
	help them begin really taking command of themselves art
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Guy Finley.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Where are you, sir?
	I'm calling from Albany, New York.
	Guy doesn't really like to deal with hypothetical situations too much, so I was trying to think of something realistic that's going on right now.
	When he realizes that tonight's program went over like a lead balloon for him, how is he going to deal with this?
	Well, that's your perception now.
	No, I mean, I just... If he was to feel like this program went over... Like what I believe, then how would he deal with it?
	How would he deal with it on a personal level to justify... I'm trying to find an example that's happening right now that doesn't really want to deal with any hypothetical example.
	I'm trying to find an example like right now.
	Alright, here's an exact answer for you.
	What I'm talking about, these principles that I write about, are about learning to use every split moment of our life.
	Every split second.
	So, sir, if I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, or I have a feeling go through me, that this program isn't going well, and I feel pain because of that thought or feeling, That's the proof that I am wrongly identified with myself as being a teacher or a philosopher or someone who should be recognized as anything.
	That is not my position.
	And when I catch those things, I realize that I'm on the wrong side.
	See, this is what we can't somehow seem to convey.
	Look, if you, sir, if you picked up a skillet with your hand and it was hot, do you need to tell yourself to put the skillet down?
	No, he's gone, but the answer is no, obviously.
	Right, because there is an instinctual intelligence that knows not to hurt itself.
	Art, there is an intelligence that dwells in every man and woman, that when it is present and awake, knows not to hold on to, look to, or embrace certain thoughts and feelings, because there is pain in them, and the pain is connected to a wrong sense of self.
	And that's what we're working to help men and women start to draw on instead of this present self that is always recreating itself and going through these self-defeating circles.
	Sure.
	Alright, well listen Guy, I thank you for being here this morning and I hope a lot of people go out and get your book.
	Uh, it's called The Intimate Enemy, and it's available nationwide, and if you can't, if you don't see it, then go ask for it.
	I take it it's generally in the non-fiction area.
	Yes, it's, it's a self-help or psychological book.
	And Art, do we have one minute?
	Because, uh, is it possible for me to give that address for a free poster?
	Real quick.
	If someone would like to get a free poster called, How Higher Self-Studies Help You Succeed, you can write to my foundation.
	And it's post office, it's Life of Learning, Post Office Box 10, Merlin, Oregon.
	And you send a self-addressed stamped envelope.
	Life of Learning, Post Office Box 10, Merlin, Oregon.
	Okay, we're out of time.
	Yes, Art.
	Yes.
	Yes, my name is Don.
	I'm calling from Portland.
	This is the first time I've ever called.
	Well, welcome then.
	Thank you.
	I'm calling concerning your guest that you had on.
	Yes.
	And basically, I think I understand what he was saying, but I have a problem with how he was saying it.
	Okay.
	Basically, I'm a martial artist and Any kind of fear or anything done for the purpose of revenge I feel is wrong.
	Does that make sense?
	Well, I hear what you're saying.
	Yes, I hear what you're saying.
	But I don't agree with it.
	If your goal is to sell books and You have to reevaluate your goal.
	Your goal was to sell books, so you went to another bookstore and you're selling your book.
	Well, the example I gave was that your book is in one store, let's say, and the store owner says, this is a bunch of psychological crap.
	Get it out of here and throws your book out.
	Okay.
	And so then you go across the street to the other bookstore and the guy starts selling your book and it sells like crazy.
	Do you experience a moment of joy in seeing that that guy was wrong and that you were right and that your book will sell and is selling?
	Is that wrong to experience that?
	I suppose, look, I suppose that Jesus would not have reacted that way.
	But I am not Jesus.
	Nor am I.
	So, I would experience some joy, I don't mind telling you and I will tell you, I'm being honest with you, in showing the guy across the street that he was full of it.
	I think my joy would come in knowing that my book was good and that it would sell, not that he was wrong.
	Otherwise, it wouldn't hurt my feelings that he was wrong, obviously, but I think in situations
	where things are so important like life and death situations and things like that, it
	is very important not to be overcome with fear or any other emotion.
	No, that's absolutely correct.
	You didn't like those kinds of examples, so I withdrew them and began to give other ones.
	Right, which had a very hard time following him because he jumped around a lot.
	But I think what he had to say was very, very true and it just needed to be said.
	I think basically I interpreted it as a turn the other cheek policy.
	I didn't.
	I took it as if you're doing it out of revenge or if you're doing it out of fear or anything you do out of an emotion, The answer is this, the answer is this, and I think the person who said the facts by W.C.
	Fields, with a quote by W.C.
	Fields, had it down right.
	I never hold a grudge.
	As soon as I get even with a son of a bitch, I forget all about it.
	That's the quote.
	You know, if you hold a grudge, if it eats you alive inside, then it is very destructive indeed.
	Very destructive.
	Anything that would take you away from your goal would be destructive.
	You're right.
	But if your anger, or if your resentment in some way, you know, that you were wronged, drives you in a positive direction, then I consider that a good thing.
	As long as it's on your goal.
	Yeah.
	But if it takes you away from your goal... Then obviously.
	And being the person you are, you're very goal-oriented.
	I am.
	Most of your descriptions were goal-oriented on selling a book or getting a particular town for your radio station.
	Yeah, I'm a serious type A personality without apology.
	Right.
	There's a lot of people who Be are very affected and go off
	way to the right to
	Because an emotion instead of sticking to their goal all right
	I will give you yet another example of a destructive reaction. Let's say you get canned
	I mean I've been canned before believe me In radio anybody who hasn't been canned hasn't worked in
	radio And there are various reactions you can have to it
	you can get all sullen and sulky and Self-defeating and go home and just sort of wallow
	Let your beard grow Become a bum for a while go through a real crisis in life
	or You can walk across the street get a job with a competitor
	and bury that SOB who canned you My reaction is the latter, not the former.
	But I've seen a lot of people who have the former.
	Let me think, because I'm with you.
	You know, I love listening to you because you Always ask those kinds of questions.
	I'm sitting here going, boy, I wish I had asked that guy that.
	And you do.
	You ask really great questions.
	And with this Finley guy, is he like, like he makes me think and um,
	Well that's good, that's good.
	Anybody who makes you think that's good.
	Oh, he does.
	Because I'm like you.
	I'm like, man, if somebody, like W.C.
	Fields, the quote you said, that's like, I understand where you're coming from, but then I think of like Buddhist monks and people who are, you know, really into enlightenment.
	And I always, that's the one question I wonder about.
	Are they, You know, are they right about this revenge thing?
	And when you say that Jesus, um, you know, could do it, but you're not Jesus?
	That's my line, too, you know?
	But then I wonder, you know, the teachings of Jesus, and I am not a Jesus freak.
	The one thing that Guy Finley said that was correct is that if you react in a negative way, and it turns out, it ends up eating you alive, then, indeed, you have lost.
	Uh, and your enemy is the victor.
	Uh, he's correct about that, but there is a reaction that Ms.
	Finley did not seem to consider, and that is getting even, whatever getting even entails, and, uh, allowing that to be your satisfaction and allowing yourself to be done with it and go on to whatever is next.
	That is the competitive type A nature within me, and that's not everybody.
	No, and me too.
	That's why I'm You know, I'm so glad you're asking these questions, because it's like me being able to talk to somebody like that myself.
	And, you know, and the question makes me think, it's like when he talked about, um, it's like when you really have faith, I mean, just the way it is, if you really have faith, and you know that justice will be done on the karmic level, then it's like, You almost don't react with that revenge thing, because you know it's going to be taken care of anyway.
	Well, I believe that God helps those who help themselves.
	And I don't wait for the cosmic level to take care of things.
	I take it into my own hands.
	And I can almost see Guy sitting there shaking his head.
	But that's the way it is.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	There are a lot of people who just lay down.
	And I mean, lay down.
	And they say, well, karma will eventually take care of him, and maybe it will.
	For me, type A, I can't wait for karma.
	Longhorn Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Hello there.
	So happy to hear, to get to you on this program.
	Well I'm glad you're here.
	I'd like to make a few points.
	First of all, you didn't get, and were very adamant against, and argumentative against what Mr. Finley had to say, what Guy had to say.
	I didn't agree with him.
	I understand.
	But you have had numerous people on the program, and yesterday's program was terrific with the doctor.
	Oh yes.
	And in fact, I'm going to draw a parallel to something the doctor said about the aunt and what Mr. Finley said tonight.
	All right.
	But you have allowed people with no backup, no substantiation, no pile of books to their credit to say all sorts of things.
	And you were not the least argumentative.
	You let them spin their tails.
	You said, golly gee, and so forth.
	Now yesterday, when the doctor said an ant caught on a crumpled piece of paper... Yes?
	Thinks that he's being pulled and pushed and buffeted about... Yes.
	And because the Ant can only see in two dimensions, he's a flatlander.
	That's correct.
	We, in three dimensions, can say, Ant, don't you realize that you are being trapped in a dimensionality, or you think you're being trapped in a dimensionality that doesn't even exist?
	We are able to see that.
	Finley was saying that perhaps And there's an expression that says, if you keep on doing what you've always done, you'll always get what you get now.
	And what Finley was trying to say is, if we look above, we are more than our bodies, we are more than our emotions, we are more than what we think we are, and we have to pull back a little, and we'll see that the conflicts And the difficulties that we have are only because we see ourselves as being limited.
	And you care to jump in here?
	No, I believe that there are two, this is where I differed with Guy Finley, that there are two possible reactions to anger or a stressful situation.
	Uh, as in being fired or whatever other situation we want to use, uh, to talk about.
	One, being very destructive to you and the other, uh, being constructive.
	Okay.
	Let me, let me come at the very beginning of the conversation that you had with Guy Finley.
	You used Yes, I did.
	same political campaign tactic that George Bush used against the man in the tank.
	I did.
	There's no question about it. I mean, you can do better than that.
	You have done better than that so much.
	I would just leave my phone call with this question for you to ask while you're on vacation.
	Well, I gave him... Now, let me finish.
	I did use that, but then I used many other examples of a lesser...
	Nature of a less extreme nature as well as a program went on so I I think I proved my point not just at that first level but a Mindset it seems to me you asked him.
	Do you have call holding he said no and Then he proceeded to you go into his exposition you asked him again.
	That's because I distance yourself from from wanting to understand what he was in my estimation at the inception of And by the way, this is Jake from South Florida.
	Okay, Jake.
	The reason I asked a second time is because when I hear an interruption of the audio, that generally indicates that the party on the other end has call waiting.
	Yeah.
	And that it's making a tone.
	We don't hear the tone.
	We just hear a short blip of missing audio from the caller.
	Well, anyway, Art, I would like you to question why you allow some people so much time to run off with all sorts of flights of fancy, something hidden behind the comet, and thus and such and such.
	Wait a minute.
	You used a very poor example because in the case of Hale-Bopp, which is what you're referring to, right?
	Yes, sir.
	We had a listener.
	Let me put it this way to you.
	If I had somebody of the caliber of Professor Courtney Brown, who provided his word, photographic evidence, and a graduate physics student, all of which were standing by their story, I would go on the air with that story again today.
	Okay.
	Okay?
	I've got to run.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	Thank you so much, Clark, for the program.
	All right.
	You betcha.
	Take care.
	All right.
	We are at the bottom of the hour.
	So we will break.
	Hi, turn your radio off, please.
	I am turning it off right now, sir.
	Okay.
	Yes, on the subject of your guest, uh, tonight, I would like to tell you that, um, my husband had a little placard above his desk because he knew he had a very bad temper.
	And this little placard said, anger is the wind that blows out the lamp of the mind.
	It does.
	If it's a mindless, undirected anger, it does indeed do that.
	Yeah, well, I believe that patience is required to make your cake turn out.
	You have to have the ingredient of patience with any of your emotions.
	But my philosophy is, um, you're alone in the company of others, um, and you will experience your life from birth to death alone, individually, and responsible, um, only for your own actions, and that it is not what happens to you in life That is paramount.
	It's what you do or what you choose to do with and to learn from what happens to you as you struggle to reach the highest road.
	And that my belief is that payback is the ultimate surrender of your control of your life.
	The victimizer is consuming your life now.
	And I think that forgiveness is a very difficult work in progress that, when it's finally achieved, frees the victim.
	It's not a gift to the victimizer.
	It's not for the person that has perpetrated some ill deed against you.
	It's for you and you alone to forgive for your own sake.
	Because it does.
	Yes, if you allow it to eat you alive, then indeed it will negatively affect you forever.
	And I, just on a lighter note, I read something, no, I heard something, and on the Tom Snyder show back in February of 96, He was talking about, I believe it was a book possibly called Sweet Revenge, How to Get Even Nicely.
	Uh-huh.
	And the story that he was just cracked up over was this.
	A first wife sewed popcorn shrimp into the ham of the drape before she left.
	He and wife number two, you know, a little babe, redid the carpet, the septic tank, and finally moved.
	Taking those drapes along.
	Well, all right.
	Thank you very much.
	Yes, yes, yes, yes.
	All right, thank you very much.
	Yes, yes, yes, yes.
	Well, it is true.
	I do not walk on water, and popcorn shrimp sounds like my kind of idea.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	How are you?
	I'm fine.
	Jim from Bloomington, Illinois.
	Yes, Jim.
	I was listening to your guest before.
	I was trying to get through with Guy Finley.
	Yes, uh-huh.
	And I think there was just some confusion.
	There was just a different level of where he was coming from.
	You're coming from, as we all do, from the world level, and he was talking on the spiritual level.
	I'll try to give you a concrete example, which is what you were asking him for all the time.
	Well, it's very difficult to have a discussion in complete generality, so I was trying to... I understand that.
	Well, I'm going to try to... Sure.
	I heard something in what he was saying, and I'll relate to your book, The Quickening, okay?
	Okay.
	What he was saying was that in equipping you on the right path like we all are, there's a tremendous interest.
	We all see, it's a moot point, we all understand the world is going at an insane pace.
	Yes.
	There are all these things happening that we know that something is coming about.
	What he was saying was... is that there's... there's a... if you... I'll try to give you an example, okay?
	Yeah, go ahead, sir.
	I remember about three weeks ago, you were talking about... I do radios.
	I ordered a lot of stuff through UPS.
	The problem was that ham equipment you ordered in Vegas?
	Yes.
	And I had five or six packages out.
	I was all concerned about it.
	And... Yes.
	What happened was, at that time I was consumed emotionally about something that I could not control.
	But you see, you can control it.
	In other words, I tracked and I tracked and I tracked until I found out what happened.
	Then I took steps and went and got my delivery.
	I became proactive.
	I didn't just steam.
	I steamed, but then I did.
	I reacted.
	I did a positive thing that ended up in a positive resolution for me.
	Okay, I'll try to put it in another context, okay?
	Okay.
	What he was saying, what I think Mr. Finley was saying, is that we're all concerned about what's happening.
	We know, like your book addresses that, There's an unknown quantity, like the world is going at the pace it's going is self-destructing.
	We know that.
	What he's saying is that if you get yourself involved emotively, emotionally, and if you're overwhelmed by it, There's no way that you can see the outcome or the explanation for it.
	Do you understand what I'm saying?
	Yes, I do.
	And I appreciate your call, but I adhere to the adage that one should think globally and act locally.
	In other words, I understood and was frustrated by the UPS strike, on the one hand.
	But on the other hand, I acted locally.
	I got on the telephone, I began to do traces, I began to find out where my box was, and when I did, I took steps to see to it that I got it.
	Strike or no strike.
	And so for me, the resolution was a positive one.
	I took that frustration, and I think this is a very good example, I'm glad you brought it up, and I channeled it into A positive action that had a positive result for me.
	On the other hand, I could have said, Damn, there's nothing I can do about this and just been frustrated and allowed it to get the best of me and been angry until who knows what.
	You know, it was lost, or there was another shipment, or some other resolution, or cancelled my credit card order.
	There were a lot of options, but I chose not to take those.
	Instead, I took my frustration and channeled it into positive action.
	I was proactive on the issue, and I got it done.
	Well, there you are.
	That's, uh, you know, since you brought that example up, uh, there you are.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Art Bell.
	This is Scott in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
	Hi, Scott.
	Listened to you for about two years now.
	I've tried... Listened to, uh... Well, it's a lot easier when you talk about specifics and how...
	You should or shouldn't react to a specific situation and what's positive and what's negative.
	I understand in general terms what he was saying but until you get to specifics it doesn't make sense.
	I think that he did agree with what you were saying on some points and I don't think that it was Uh, you know, I mull over these things a lot myself, and I think first for a nation, you gotta have a big stick.
	It's the only thing they're gonna understand.
	And then personally, too, when you bring Jesus into it, He said, be on guard.
	Watch out for them.
	Don't trust them.
	And I think the best thing for me to do is to try and keep myself in a position where I'm not gonna be hurt.
	That's the best defense.
	And I'll let it go at that.
	Keep up the good work.
	Alright, thank you very much.
	But if you apply that, for example, to a relationship, then you will miss a lot.
	In other words, if in a relationship you cannot open up to love because you are afraid that if you do, you'll be wounded, Then you will miss the intimate relationship that otherwise would have occurred, and I perfectly well understand that.
	So you've gotta let it hang out sometimes, folks.
	Uh, or you're gonna miss life.
	But, on the other hand, you don't have to, uh, when wrong, a wrong is perpetrated upon you, you don't have to hang your head and just say, that's, uh, my cosmic fate, and sort of, uh, hang your head and walk away.
	That is not the way I react to difficulties and bumps in life as I go along, but that's me.
	I'm type A. First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yes.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	Hi, I'm Sally from Seattle.
	Sally from Seattle.
	First time call.
	Yeah, I enjoyed The conversation was a little frustrating because I felt like there was a big gap between the two of you there.
	Well, there is.
	A huge gap.
	There are gaps between many people and that doesn't mean we can't have discussions, but that's what makes an interesting discussion.
	Yeah, and I was kind of positioning myself with each one of you.
	I think, you know, I think my starting point is where you start from, you know, that when
	I must have been really young when I made the decision that I was never going to be hurt.
	The best defense is a good offense.
	You really come strong from that point of view.
	I think you really come strong from that point of view.
	Then I think about Danion and I think about my own near-death experience and I think,
	there have been so many times when I've had to face the results of my own actions in the form of somebody else's
	experience of it.
	OK, let me go back to what you said.
	You said that you believe my philosophy is the best defense is a good offense.
	That's not necessarily true.
	The best defense, I think, is to have lots of good special team players within yourself.
	In other words, if somebody comes after you, I don't just go after people, but on the other hand, if somebody comes after me, I don't run from the fight.
	Okay.
	So that's a little different than the best defense is a good offense.
	Yeah, but I mistrust anyone who says, I'll go for the revenge, that I'll go for blood if blood is taken from me.
	Well, I will.
	I do mistrust that.
	I will.
	Yeah, I know.
	I hear that very strongly, but I've shifted from out of that position And I'm trying to trace what made the difference for me, what shifted me over.
	And I think it was experiencing, learning to experience pain.
	I didn't know pain.
	I did not know pain until I was well into my 30s and reluctantly then.
	And I've taken 20, 30 years to actually experience pain from somebody else's point of view and come to a place where I can't hurt another person and I can't act out of... In other words, no matter what would be done to you, You wouldn't be reactive.
	Okay.
	Is that what you're saying?
	We're gonna reach an impasse again because you see it as an interaction, a thing happening between you and somebody else.
	When in fact, you know, let's put it this way, if it wasn't somebody coming in and raping your wife, But some terrible thing happened that you could not perceive as being at the hand of another human being.
	Well, then the discussion is mute.
	Well, wait a minute, though.
	Where do you put your anger and your frustration?
	In other words, ma'am, if life kicks you in the butt and it's not at the hand of another individual, Then any exercise of frustration or vengeance is totally useless.
	Only when you have been wronged at the hand of another is vengeance to even be considered.
	You can't have vengeance on the ups and downs of life.
	You've got to roll with those.
	I like that.
	But you see, you see God as just a sort of cosmic force, is that right?
	And you can accept God's acts, but you can't accept the acts of the people around you.
	No, I would say, I'll put it this way, thank you, and that is that if somebody wrongs me, really wrongs me or mine, my family, whatever, then I will not simply sit back and say, God'll get them.
	I'll get them.
	In other words, my view is that God helps those who help themselves.
	And I don't just rely on some sort of cosmic justice to write things.
	On the other hand, I want to be very clear, as I just thought I was with you, that if life comes along and just gives you a kick in the butt, Well then, there's no point in having anger or feelings of vengefulness against anybody because it just happened.
	And so you pick yourself up and keep going and learn and grow.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	I heard there was an earthquake in Italy.
	That's right.
	It has killed three.
	Ooh.
	How you doing tonight?
	I'm fine.
	Um, about your guest tonight.
	Yes.
	I think what bothered me about He was using too many generalities about, he was saying we all do this, we all react.
	That's right, well that's what made the discussion somewhat difficult was the fact that it was being held in just generalities.
	for me to understand and I need specific situations that we can discuss.
	Listen.
	I'm going to be honest.
	I'm not going to lie.
	Art Bell is taking your calls on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
	That's 702-727-1295.
	This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye with Art Bell.
	It is and you're welcome.
	In a moment I'm going to bring, I'm going to talk to this lady I've got on hold here in a moment.
	And then I'm going to do my commercial break.
	Then I'm going to bring Ramona on because we are headed off on a very extensive trip.
	She'll tell you about it.
	But really what she's going to tell you applies to any of you who get up and go to the other side of the world.
	There are a lot of hints and kinks and things you can do that will help.
	And so I think you'll enjoy that.
	She'll spend a few moments with those of you who are coming along on this massive trip.
	And You can either take or reject some of the ideas, but we've done it so many times now that she knows what she is doing.
	West of the Rockies, you're back on the air again.
	Thank you for holding.
	Oh, no problem.
	Yeah, what bothered me about the guest was his sweeping generalities about that we all do this whenever any of us are feeling anger, that the anger's in control and that's negative.
	And I know a lot of people that are more emotionally mature than that.
	Like for instance, if one of their children is in danger and they're angry, that's a signal to them to do something constructive about it and help other people that are unfortunate.
	Well, I couldn't agree more.
	I simply agree.
	I mean, there are many different types of people walking the earth.
	We were a different type of people.
	That's all there is to it.
	Yeah, and I'm enjoying watching the IRS hearings.
	I think a lot of people are angry.
	You know, we could all stand up and say, no, this needs to be corrected.
	If we don't move on our anger, it won't happen.
	Well, what I would like to see, constructively, and I've been angry, believe me, every time I look at my page, I get very angry at the IRS.
	What I would like to see occur is a nice, simple, or only slightly modified flat tax system that would straighten out an awful lot of things.
	But they won't do that, and the reason they won't do that is because it removes the power to socially manipulate us.
	The tax code is used to socially manipulate us.
	And that would be an enemy that's not within, I would think.
	No, that's an external enemy.
	You're absolutely right.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Yes, they've got hearings going with IRS horror stories, of which there are many.
	And there is not going to be a resolution to it because the IRS is a power base that allows the government to socially manipulate our behavior.
	It's the name of that game.
	And I suppose when I do a commercial I'm trying to socially manipulate you as well.
	Bell.
	Proper.
	And this is Ramona Bell back on the air, giving you some travel tips, especially for our...
	Very large group who is going to be going with us to Athens, Egypt, we're going to Israel, several islands, several of the Greek islands, making a stop in Naples, Italy, and we are also going to be ending our cruise in Rome.
	For all of those who are going with us but are not going to Athens to spend a couple of days there, You will be arriving in Athens on October the 1st, excuse me, October the 2nd at the Port of Athens and we will be departing at 5 p.m.
	in the evening.
	Just so you know, when you're doing international travel, you must be at the airport at least two hours before your flight takes off.
	It's extremely important that you do this.
	It's for baggage checks.
	It is to make sure that That you are going to be with your baggage.
	And this is very important because if you're not there, but your bags are, they're going to be left behind.
	So, be sure to check your tickets and your itineraries to check connecting flights.
	Just make sure that all of the material that you have, you read in advance of this trip.
	Now, beginning in Greece, once we depart, we will spend one day at sea, which is the day that we are going to be doing our picture taking.
	And for those who are traveling with us, we are going to do it in one day.
	That means everyone will have to take their pictures with us on the day of the 3rd while we're at sea.
	And it will be from 1 until 3 in the afternoon at a place that will be announced on board the ship.
	Our first stop is going to be in Alexandria, Egypt.
	And for those who are not prepared for Alexandria, let me inform you of the temperatures there.
	The temperatures in Alexandria currently at this time of year are going to be between the high 90s, you know, high 90s with maybe one day of rain during the year, though the last moment that I had checked the weather in Egypt, it was raining.
	So, be prepared for extremely warm weather.
	And with that, I'm going to go ahead and give you A quick idea of what to take with you on a cruise.
	We're going for 12 days.
	This does not mean you need to pack 12 outfits or 12 dresses or anything of this nature.
	We are packing as simply as possible and what we're taking with us will be the following.
	Take comfortable clothing for casual wear.
	This means jeans, long pants, preferably made out of cotton, short-sleeved shirts, very, very sturdy walking shoes for those great excursions that we'll be taking.
	And believe me, your feet will appreciate good walking shoes.
	We are also going to be in some formal affairs, some semi-formal affairs, and some casual affairs on board the ship.
	The best bet is Everyone understands that you are limited in the amount of clothing that you can take.
	All luggage that's going to be checked must be in two reasonably sized bags that go up to a weight of 75 pounds each.
	You are allowed one carry-on bag and that cannot exceed 50 pounds.
	So, along with Jeans, pants, short-sleeve shirts.
	Be sure to pack a hat because it is extremely hot in Egypt and in Israel and you want to be able to protect yourself from that sun and that heat.
	You want to also carry One dress, one or two evening gowns, nothing real serious but you know something fairly dressy.
	One or two suits so you can interchange for evening wear.
	And one or two casual outfits for evening wear on board ship.
	And this is enough.
	Believe me, you can interchange your outfits and not have a problem with, you know, everyone understands that you're going to be limited on your packing.
	We try to stay with the basic colors.
	We stay with blacks and whites, and that's enough for us.
	Be sure to take a light jacket or a shawl and try the, you know, the layered Look, which is, you know, wear clothing and layers so that you can put on or take off as you need.
	And especially this travel tip, when you're entering into Greece, before you leave the United States, pick up some drachmas, Greek drachmas, from the currency exchange in the United States so that you can rent a cart because they do not have change at that airport when you need to get a card.
	In other words, the card is on the side before you reach or get through customs and to a cash exchange.
	So if you don't want to haul your bags, be sure to get some change before you enter the country of Greece.
	Now, it is very important that you understand that when you're also taking your hand carry luggage, that you want to pack All your prescription medication in it.
	Take enough for the 12 to 13 days that you're going to be gone.
	Take everything that you know you're going to need that you know you're not going to find, like your particular brand of aspirin or Tylenol, skin creams, Alka-Seltzer.
	Very important.
	Take some Pepto-Bismol or Lotrimin for those unfortunate times where you might Otherwise not feel too correct.
	We also have a little system where we take a heat coil.
	We will take a voltage transformer because all European countries run on 220.
	And when you're staying in the hotels, you want to be able to have access to your computers and radios, things of that nature.
	If you plug your radio or your electrical equipment into a 220 voltage, it'll burn it up.
	So, take a voltage transformer with you.
	Take a multi-plug with you.
	That's the three ways that you can find in the store, and that'll increase your plug-in amounts.
	We also take with us, because we have a tendency to be very sensitive in the beginning of cruises and trips, we've learned to take our own instant coffee, teas, Instant soups, bouillon cubes, and, you know, a variety of little light snacks like fruits or, you know, dried fruits, nuts, cookies, things of that nature.
	The reason being is that not all countries have the kind of foods that will be agreeable to you.
	Now, try it.
	Give it a try.
	Don't be shy, but, you know, if you have a tendency towards a very sensitive stomach, it is wise to start bringing these things with you.
	Bring a small calculator.
	A disposable one.
	You know, one of those five, ten dollar jobs.
	For currency conversion.
	And I will give you the currency amounts as we go along.
	Extra camera film.
	It is a real pain to try to find camera film in a foreign country.
	So, take extra camera film with you.
	More than you think you're going to need.
	Film for your video cameras.
	Important.
	Take a leg wallet, a money belt, or a neck pouch with you, as American passports are
	extremely valued in these countries.
	If yours is stolen, believe me, it is difficult enough to try to get another one.
	While we're on the subject of passports, photocopy your passport and leave that copy with a trusted friend and take an additional copy with you.
	That way it'll make it a lot easier if you have to go to the U.S.
	Consul to be issued a new one.
	Guard these passports like gold.
	You have to have them to enter any country that we're going to on this cruise.
	In your hand-carry luggage also include cameras, binoculars, radios, anything you do not want tossed around by baggage handlers on major airlines.
	Things that are very sensitive to being thrown around.
	Carry your jewelry, money, your plane tickets, all have to be in your hand-carry luggage.
	toiletries, any change of undergarments and extra socks, just in case you and your bags are separated for a short
	amount of time.
	Purchase international phone cards.
	It's much cheaper to make a call from a pay phone on shore than it is to make a ship to shore call because it is $15 a minute.
	It's much cheaper to do it this way and we have learned through the process of elimination to make our calls off the ship rather than on.
	Along with photocopying your passports and carrying the copy with you, also keep a copy of your credit cards because if they get lost or stolen, you do want to report them missing and you also want to be able to get them replaced as quickly as possible and stop anyone from using them.
	For everyone's edification, It is not the type of trip that accepts the truly liberated woman.
	In Egypt, there are a number of do's and don'ts that you want to be very, very careful of.
	You are to dress coolly, but not scantily.
	This means long pants, not jeans.
	Long skirts and at least short-sleeved shirts if you want to be respected among the Egyptians.
	Single women do not travel outside the main tourist areas.
	Do carry some bottled water with you.
	Do take your shoes off when entering a mosque.
	Avoid displays of public affection between the sexes, even married couples.
	It's not appreciated having kisses passed in public, so, you know, save it for when we get back to the ship.
	Be sure to ask someone before taking their picture as they can demand a payment or gratuity for having that picture taken.
	And while we're on the subject of photographs, do not photograph bridges, canals, or anything remotely related to the military or government.
	Another custom in Egypt that you have to respect is do not pass food with your left hand.
	It doesn't say why, but I respect that.
	So be the same.
	Be sensitive about what you say regarding Egyptian politics, economics, and the law.
	As they are all based on Islamic principles and to criticize them will be, you know, is to criticize their religion and Islam is the state religion.
	For Egypt and Israel, write down the serial numbers of your cameras and video equipment before bringing them into the countries as they must be declared to customs before entering.
	And this is so you can get them back out.
	If you fail to do this, You will find your equipment confiscated.
	There are some changes that are going to be made on our itinerary coming Coming into the port of Alexandria.
	We will be there from 6 a.m.
	until 6 p.m.
	rather than 8 p.m.
	We will also, on October the 5th, we will be in Ashdod, Israel.
	From 10.30 in the morning to 11 p.m.
	The next port of call will be Haifa.
	And we will be there from 6 in the morning until 11 o'clock in the evening.
	Then we're out at sea for the 7th of October.
	Then we approach the island of Patmos, Greece.
	We will be there from 8 a.m.
	until 5 p.m.
	until 5 p.m. On the 9th we will be in Rhodes and then on the 10th we will be
	approaching the island of Crete.
	The following day we'll be in another island, another Greek island, Nofilium.
	We're at sea on the 11th.
	On the 12th, we will be in Naples, Italy, and then our cruise will end on the 13th, or excuse me, the 15th in Rome.
	Now, for all those who, for continuing tips on our itinerary for the cruise, We will be back after the break to let you know a little more about our cruising tips and our travel tips.
	Ramona Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Music playing.
	To Vax Artvel in the Kingdom of Night.
	That's area code 702-727-8499.
	Please limit faxes to one or two pages.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	That's what it is, alright.
	code 702-727-8499. Please limit faxes to one or two pages.
	This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	That's what it is all right. Good morning. And if all the clouds and the rain weren't there,
	I suspect we'd have a nice clear desert night.
	And it would be sand, not mud.
	But that's not the case, as a tropical storm spreads itself out.
	All right.
	Ramona wanted to add that any of you with additional questions, and I can understand you might have some, you should address them to cruise masters now through the weekend and or whenever you leave.
	And you can reach Cruise Masters at 1-800-848-7120.
	That's 1-800-848-7120.
	We're preparing to embark on a fairly serious journey here.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello, Orr.
	We're preparing to embark on a fairly serious journey here.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air. Hi.
	Hello, R.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Change of voice here.
	This is Brian from Philadelphia.
	Hi, Brian.
	Hello.
	First, I guess I wish you a great trip.
	Thank you.
	I'm not going to elaborate, but I've sent you a number of emails and faxes.
	Brian from Philadelphia.
	Yes.
	I just wanted to let you know that probably by the time you come back, I'll have an audio tape and my phone bill.
	So please look for the package.
	It'll be in a, I guess, a priority mail from the post office.
	All right.
	That's it.
	All right, Brian.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Have a great trip.
	Right.
	Take care.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	You're on?
	Yes.
	This is Edna from Florida.
	Hello, Edna from Florida.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing good.
	Thank you.
	I was concerned about Damien Brinkley.
	I hadn't heard Last time I heard he was in intensive care.
	No, he is out of intensive care now.
	You must have missed a report.
	I did.
	And doing quite well and recovering.
	He has a clot left to deal with.
	But the bleeding has stopped and the pressure is off and he feels much better.
	Oh, thank you.
	Thank God.
	That's good news.
	Now I can go to sleep.
	The next trick is trying to keep him in the hospital because he's a restless soul who wants to escape.
	And I told him earlier today, I'll never talk to him again if he doesn't stay there long enough to... And Danian, if you're listening, I mean that.
	Yeah, Danian, we love you.
	Okay, all right.
	Thank you very much.
	Have a nice evening.
	Take care.
	All right, let's see.
	On our international line, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Art Bell.
	That's me.
	Hi, this is John.
	I'm calling from Okinawa.
	Okinawa?
	Yes.
	Oh, John, I spend so much time on Okinawa.
	I love that island.
	I just found that out a while ago, yeah.
	I'm calling about a couple days ago you talked about pyramids.
	That's right.
	They were found Well, they're off the Ryukyu Islands, John, by a little bit.
	I can't tell you exactly what direction Linda Moulton Howe is going to cover it this week on Dreamland, but yes, they found pyramids and construction below the sea off the islands you're on now, the island chain you're on now.
	Really?
	Below the sea?
	Yes, sir.
	Wow.
	And concerning your That caller that called, what was it, three weeks ago?
	Or two, three weeks ago?
	Yes.
	That knocked you off the air?
	Yes.
	Do you think there's any possibility that someone may try to get you off the air?
	Like, what types of possibilities would there be?
	Well, I don't know.
	I don't know any of the radio, you know, Any radio regulations and all that?
	Know what I'm talking about?
	No.
	Well, if someone were to try to get you off the air... Yes?
	How do you think they would go about doing that?
	Well, I don't know.
	It depends on your point of view.
	You can view what occurred as a coincidence that the satellite just happened to lose earth lock, which is what GE Americom said the moment that caller got to a critical point.
	And it was a great, incredible coincidence.
	Or you could take the point of view that somebody knocked us off the air.
	I don't know which is true.
	What do you think?
	Well, I think that somebody did knock you off the air.
	I seriously think that.
	I mean, I seriously think that.
	Who knows if this story is true or not.
	That's right.
	But I would think that knocking us off the air in the middle of something like that only underlines the probability that the story was true.
	And if they had left him on the air, people might dismiss it as a total nutcase.
	But the fact that we went off the air Uh, gives credence to what he was saying.
	So, you know, if their aim was to, um, somehow censor what he was saying, it had the opposite effect.
	By the way, what are you doing on Okinawa?
	I'm in the Air Force over here.
	Huh.
	Uh, Kadena?
	Yes.
	No kidding.
	My old alma mater, Kadena.
	Really?
	Yes.
	I looked the show up over the internet.
	Uh-huh.
	How's Gate 2 Street?
	Still about the same?
	Gate 2 Street is about the same, yeah.
	All right.
	Well, thanks for the call.
	And you call me again, please.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	That's the island of Okinawa, where the day is different, and believe me, the life is very different.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello, Mr. Bell.
	Yes.
	All in Fresno, California.
	Hi there.
	Hi there.
	I find that your guest, Mr. Finley, He had plenty of good content.
	I mean, I liked just the content.
	If I could read it on paper, I'd say it was great.
	But his presentation was lacking, and I think he can improve on it.
	By that I mean his speaking style, his tone.
	He had a little sharp tone.
	It sounded like he was scolding us, but I really do think he knows what he's talking about.
	It had plenty of meaning in it.
	Well, it is, of course, the spiritual way.
	There's no question.
	I mean, he was on the righteous side of things, and that is what Jesus preached, and that is to turn the other cheek and all the rest of it.
	However, I guess I would offer up the fact that he also seemed to go after the money changers with some diligence.
	I see.
	I just, what I thought perhaps on your part Mr. Bell and a few other callers is they reacted very negatively to his tone of voice and really couldn't get the value of his message because his oral presentation was just... Well how you deliver a message is very important.
	Yes, and that's how I found That was the biggest, the weakest link in his chain, so to
	speak.
	Well, it's very important. I mean, when you're dealing with a vocal medium,
	you've got to be able to deliver the message in that medium well to be understood.
	And I found a few writers that I've met in my life have that problem.
	They're very good in choosing their words.
	On paper?
	Yes, sir.
	And not so well vocally expressing them?
	Yes, that's true.
	So, if we could just see what he said on paper, if we had a transcript of tonight's show, it would just all be swell.
	But, well, perhaps we could take some exception, as you pointed out, about the money.
	However, generally, I just don't think he would have had such negative reactions.
	Mm-hmm.
	That's my take on it.
	All right.
	Well, I appreciate your call.
	Thank you, Mr. Bill.
	Thank you.
	It is merely a forum in which people are allowed to say what they wish to say.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Stan.
	I'm calling from Mount Vernon, Washington, just about 60 miles north of Seattle.
	Okay.
	Really, a whole series of incidents have happened since January to me, to include meeting and talking with Nick Boonick, who he had on the line at one time.
	As a guest, yes.
	And I went to his first seminar after surgery for cancer of the thyroid gland and the tonsil.
	Yes.
	And I was extremely impressed with Nick and I have already read his book and I have his cassette.
	I was very, very pleased with the way that you received him.
	I'm glad you enjoyed it.
	I enjoyed it immensely.
	Since then I've had other surgeries and I'm cancer free at this moment in time.
	And this whole subject of religious, whatever, dealing with God and his direct line and what Nick Brunich had to say about the angels interceding and giving him messages that were important for us to pay attention to.
	I have really hit home with me.
	Well, I don't discount any of it.
	Thank you.
	It is entirely possible that what he says is exactly true.
	Or perhaps not.
	I don't know.
	But he did effect a very, very good interview.
	There was no question about it.
	And I think a lot of people were prepared to object strenuously to what he was going to say.
	And found it difficult to do because of the manner of his delivery, which reflects back to the previous caller.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Mr. Bell, good evening.
	Good evening.
	My name is Dean.
	I'm calling from Vacaville, California.
	Vacaville, yes sir.
	I had a question for you.
	I'm about to go on a trip of my own pretty soon.
	Okay.
	I'm in the Air Force, as you once were.
	Ah.
	And I'm about to go to Germany for two years.
	I was wondering if your show is Well, if you've got the internet, yes.
	No.
	No.
	Well, all you need is a... Well, listen, computers are getting cheaper.
	That's true.
	Now, I don't know whether they have web TV over there, but that's really cheap.
	Right.
	Short of that, a computer... I mean, you can buy computers that will do this now for around $300 or $400.
	You know, they're not top of the line, but they will accomplish the task.
	And you can sit over there for whatever charge it is and sit and listen to the show worldwide, including Germany.
	You're not on shortwave or anything?
	No.
	No, although we are in the middle of a deal with British Radio.
	That would help you out in Germany.
	Hmm.
	OK, well, keep my eye on the computer market then.
	All right.
	Well, the Internet pretty much takes care of things internationally and, as a matter of fact, is beginning to rapidly replace the need for shortwave, which, of course, is spotty at best.
	We're not in a good part of the Sun cycle right now.
	Shortwave is a little difficult.
	The Internet seems to be, in effect, replacing shortwave as a reliable This is Steve from Milwaukee.
	I just wanted to make a quick comment.
	I just heard a guy named Brian from Philadelphia just called in and he said he was going to send you or had sent you some stuff.
	Just something caught my ear real quick.
	He sounded a lot to me like the guy who called in claiming to be the Area 51 employee who was cut off due to the satellite lock.
	That's what he claims to be.
	Okay, alright.
	I was wondering about that.
	However.
	Yeah.
	However.
	I have about 50 people claiming to be that.
	Well, I'll tell you, man.
	I listen to your show.
	I'm a third shift patrol officer, and I listen to your show all the time.
	I got the radio on constantly, and I've pretty much been listening for the last several weeks straight through.
	And that guy, when I heard his voice, I immediately thought, my God, that's the guy.
	Thought it might be.
	So, I mean, I was just going to fax him.
	I thought, no, I'll just try to get through tonight before you go off the air.
	I don't know if there was any way you could possibly do a voice analysis or just you yourself compare the phone call to his voice, but as soon as I heard him I just immediately thought, that sounds to me like the guy.
	I don't know if any of your other listeners thought the same thing, but it caught my ear immediately.
	I perked up and said, wait a second, that's the guy.
	And especially when you had David John Oates on it, he was doing the reverse speech on them, and of course he played it several times.
	Being able to hear it those several times really brought it back clearly, and I thought that is the guy.
	Well, if I'm really able to determine that is the guy.
	Um, and voices can be somewhat deceiving.
	Right.
	Uh, we're trying to, I told him to supply me with proof, in a way of, you know, phone records, that kind of thing.
	Right.
	If he can do that, and we can match it up, and really prove it's him, then we'll have him on the air, and we'll get the whole story.
	Right.
	Well, is he, now, is he claiming that he really did work for Area 51, or is he claiming that he did that as a prank, just to prove that he could do it, and is, uh, is the whole thing was a hoax?
	I don't know.
	You don't know?
	No, I don't know.
	That's what I say.
	I'm not going to bother delving into even asking him that kind of question until I can conclusively prove he is one.
	Gotcha.
	Gotcha.
	Well, hey, if nothing else, man, I love listening to the show.
	It's great.
	You're fantastic.
	I got both your books.
	I've read them both.
	I got them in reverse order, actually.
	I read The Quickening first and then I read your first book.
	Oh, you did?
	That's interesting.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Well, I first heard about The Quickening actually early.
	I've been listening to you for about a year now.
	and i first got the quickening read it uh... was lucky enough to get one of the signed
	copies uh... then i ordered uh... i ordered the art of talk
	uh... i got a friend who works for a bookstore so i can get him at discounted
	prices which is kind of nice but uh... yeah that was uh... i i've enjoyed both your
	books I love listening to the show, man.
	It helps the nights go by.
	It keeps the mental stimulation going when I'm driving around in the dark all night and looking up in the sky and I think of you.
	And I hope you and your wife have a great time over in Europe and in Egypt.
	I'm looking forward to hearing how everything goes for you guys.
	It'll be an adventure.
	Excellent, man.
	You take care.
	Thanks a lot, Art.
	Bye-bye.
	All right.
	I am going to do a book signing.
	You can get the quickening, which is on the New York Times bestseller list now, at any bookstore.
	And if they don't have it, they can get it.
	However, I will do one, one book signing.
	One only.
	So mark it on your calendar.
	It's going to be at Barnes & Noble.
	Which is located at, let me see, 1040 North El Camino Real in... It is Encinitas, isn't it?
	Yes, Encinitas, California.
	And will begin about 10 o'clock in the morning on October 25th.
	And it will only be one book signing.
	I guarantee only one.
	So you might mark it on your calendar if you're in an area where you can, you know, it'll be a Saturday.
	October 25th, so if you can drive we're kind of trying to position ourselves in North County
	so that LA will have an opportunity to come in as will San Diego and perhaps point
	points east toward Arizona. And if you can take the time on a Saturday we'd love to have you come
	out and I will endeavor to get everybody's book signed. I will certainly stay there and try as
	hard as I can. West of the Rockies you're on the air good morning. All right it was funny that last
	guy that called said that when he looks up in the sky he said it really quickly though but when he
	said he looked up in the sky he sees Art Bell.
	No, he said he thinks of me.
	Well, that's exactly what I do though.
	It's like, uh, I think that, um, there's about a, uh, 30 or 40 million of us that think the same thing, that, um, you're, Somebody on the air that's willing to accept that there's something out there.
	Well, there's worse ways to be thought of.
	Yeah, there are.
	But, um, I still want to know who shot President Kennedy.
	I've got to go by.
	Okay, bye.
	We'll never know.
	We're never, ever going to know who did that.
	And even if somebody came forth and told the total truth about who shot President Kennedy, we still wouldn't buy it.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air, but there's no more time, so you're going to get the honors.
	Where are you?
	Uh, Oklahoma City.
	Oklahoma City.
	Oh, that's fitting.
	From the very center, the heartland of America, tell them goodnight.
	Goodnight, America.
	That's how to do it.
	Alright.

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