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Aug. 5, 1997 - Art Bell
40:13
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Bob Guccione - Alternative Cancer Treatments (hour 1)
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Time Text
100 KSTP.
Ooh, is it hot.
Ranging from the Tahitian and Hawaiian island chains in the west, eastward to the Caribbean, the U.S.
Virgin Islands, Cuba, south into South America, north to the pole, and worldwide, of course, on yield internet.
This is Close to Close AM.
I'm Art Bell.
Top of the night or morning to you, whatever the case may be in your time zone.
Coming up shortly, the publisher of Penthouse Magazine, editor-in-chief, big guy, Bob Guccione.
And so that's what's about to happen.
Now, where we're going to go, we'll find out.
All right, away we go.
A lot to do tonight.
Stan Dale from Australia, a little later, right now.
The editor-in-chief and publisher of Penthouse Magazine, Bob Guccione.
Bob, welcome to the program.
All right, thank you.
Really nice to have you on.
It was a very interesting path I followed to try and find you through your editors.
They're very protective people, your editors.
Bob, how's Penthouse going?
How's it doing?
It's doing very well.
We've made some changes this year.
We've taken a few bolder steps.
Penthouse is much more explicit, I think, more in keeping With what we term the new morality.
There are a lot of changes in the land and it's really our job to reflect them.
I always thought of Penthouse as somewhere in between Hustler and Playboy.
Well, content wise.
Yeah, I think it's really difficult to position us because we've always been a maverick magazine.
We came out in the Playboy mold in 1965 in England and we got away from it.
We used the same formula because in England there was no Playboy.
It was just the American import and it was doing so well that I got the idea of creating
an English version of the American Playboy.
So that's how it happened?
Yeah.
I used to check newsstands.
I was editing a weekly newspaper and I used to check newsstands in London and I always
saw Playboy and I would ask them time and time, well how is this magazine doing?
Because I was not a reader then.
I wasn't really interested.
And they said to me, well it's doing very well.
It sells as well as the best selling English magazines.
And I couldn't believe that there was no English equivalent.
So when I finished my term at the paper, I set out and I spent three years trying to
find some English equivalent.
Financial backing for this concept.
And people would say it was a great idea, but why hasn't somebody else done it?
Well, this is the opportunity.
Now it's about to be done.
Now you could be at the beginning.
Three years and I couldn't find a single person.
Yeah, and that's funny.
I mean, they say it's a great idea, but we're wary of it because nobody's done it yet.
I've run into the same thing.
Yeah, it's devastating.
I traveled to Germany.
I went to Canada.
I came back to the States.
I went to Scotland.
I saw everybody.
They had two nickels to rub together.
And finally, ultimately, no one was interested.
I did it all on credit.
I started it without one cent of investment.
And from there to here.
Yeah.
One of the best movies that I've seen recently, aside from Contact, which I loved.
Oh, beautiful.
I saw it, yeah.
It was a great movie.
Was The People vs. Larry Flynn.
Now... I haven't seen it yet, actually.
What?
I haven't.
You haven't seen that yet?
No, not yet.
Oh, you've got to... That's too bad.
I was going to ask you if they portrayed Larry accurately.
Well, I did see a copy of the script.
Someone sent me a pirated version of the script before the film came out.
And I had a hard time with it.
Because I know Flint.
I know what he's done.
I know the battles that he's fought.
And he's always fought battles as a defendant, never as a plaintiff.
The difference between Flint and the First Amendment and Penthouse and Playboy is that Penthouse and Playboy over the years have been plaintiffs in the First Amendment battles.
So we've actually gone to battle for other people, which is something Flint never did.
This really was a travesty, the Flint film.
Do the wild thing at 702-727-1295.
We get ahold of his His head of security, who was his brother-in-law, who has now left the Flint empire and has done a story for us.
And he said to me every single year, Flint would ask him, what are you doing?
Have you got somebody yet?
Are you going to get Caccione?
And you know, there was a number of years ago, maybe seven or eight years ago, there was a piece in the papers all over the country.
And the attorney general was investigating it.
So they found a hit man, a professional hit man.
in his apartment from a heart attack. In the guy's pocket was a check for a million dollars,
signed by Larry Flynn, with instructions to kill me, you, you Hefner, Frank Sinatra, and
Walter Annenberg. Well, at least we're in good company then.
We're in good company anyway.
So I find it difficult to warm up to the guys who are trying to kill me. Yeah, yeah. I understand.
We're really in a business that is going to be challenged, if not now, shortly.
Really, it already is, by what's going on with the Internet.
Oh, yes.
The Internet is going to be the next generation.
A huge generation of communications.
We find that we, actually, we moved onto the Internet a long time ago.
We put, Omni was the very first magazine in the country to be online, so we always knew that the internet was going to be the place to go.
And we did that, I think, back in 1983.
So, we were very conscious of the potential of the internet, and today, I'm happy to say, as a result of the Nielsen auditing the international web, they determined that Penthouse was far and away the most frequented spot on the internet.
We do have the most popular site.
We get between 5 and 8 million hits a subscription to what we call a private collection.
So if you come to the Penthouse homepage, there are lots of things you can do and look
at and read and so on.
But if you want to see and become part of a private collection, which is where we put
lots of very exciting pictures and text.
Where the real meat is.
Yeah.
You've got to subscribe to that.
Well, alright.
At least there's a way to make money at the Internet.
That was always the question.
And we're able to block out people that are too young and so on.
Because in order to enter the private collection, the private section, You've got to produce a credit card, and you've got to be vetted by us.
We do it in seconds because it's all done by computer, but you have to be a valid credit card holder, which means you've got to be 18 or over.
So you're concerned about his season?
Well, yes, and in a sense I am.
In a kind of academic way, I am.
But my private belief is that, and having brought up five children as I brought up Penthouse, My private belief is that children exposed to sexy images, erotic images, are not moved by them until they reach puberty.
And when they're in puberty, you can't convince them.
They're moved anyway.
Yes.
They don't need you then.
Okay, we just had Big Row, which the Supreme Court thankfully settled in a libertarian way.
Suggesting that the regulation they were proposing for the Internet was simply not constitutional.
So, is that over?
Or are there going to be more attempts?
No, that's... Well, for all practical purposes, it's over, because the Supreme Court made two... gave two very solid reasons.
One, it is not practical to attempt to censor the Internet, because the Internet is international.
In fact, 40% Of all the pornographic images that you can get on the internet today come from abroad.
So whereas you might be able to stop American providers by prosecuting them, fining them, and prosecuting them, which alone would be difficult enough, you can't stop the foreigners and you can't stop the web from operating the way it does.
It's an international network of computer users.
That's one thing.
And the other thing is that the The criterion for obscenity on the internet is too vague.
Much too vague.
They use the word indecent.
And who knows what indecent is?
There is no legal description of the word indecent.
And as far as obscenity is concerned, obscenity is simply against the law.
So if you become obscene on the internet, you could be prosecuted.
But you can do short of that, you can do anything else that you want.
Well, there have been local attempts, and they say things like, uh, local community standards.
Yeah.
As a matter of fact, uh, there were a lot of channels up on, uh, satellite that were broadcasting, uh, uh, straight out XXX porn, and there was one DA, I think, down in one of the Carolinas or somewhere down south, who said, uh-uh.
And actually, uh, for a long time, got him knocked off the air.
That's right.
Uh, saying you can't bring that down from satellite into my state.
Well that's, um, community standards really apply more to television, to radio, books, and magazines.
But it could not apply to the internet.
And the, according to the Supreme Court, the internet represents the widest possible public forum.
And therefore, is the people most blessed with respect to the First Amendment?
Well, you're certainly correct, and it might as well be because they couldn't stop it.
It's such an interweaving of connections that if you were to stop one connection, another one comes through, and so forth and so on and so forth and so on.
It's simply too big.
You can't pull enough plugs to stop it.
Anyway... Absolutely correct, yeah.
Listen, the reason that I really want to have you here has to do with Your personal life, your wife.
Your wife had or has, has or had cancer.
When did you find out about that?
She was first diagnosed two years ago.
And she was diagnosed with late stage four breast cancer.
Now stage four means terminal.
Stage four, there's no hope for you.
In the lymph system, that kind of thing?
Well, it had metastasized throughout her lymph nodes.
went into her liver, her stomach, her pancreas and elsewhere, into her bones, ribs and so
on.
And the doctor who diagnosed it described it as galloping breast cancer because he said
six weeks earlier, now this is incredible, six weeks earlier, Kathy had had a mammogram
by her private physician and by her gynecologist.
And in both instances they found her clear.
She's very health conscious and she goes for walks.
regular checkups, some clear to galloping, in six weeks.
Not only did she have breast cancer, but it had metastasized all over the place
in six short weeks.
We were in the South of France, we were at the film fair,
and she was complaining of a pain in the stomach.
And we thought, well, since Kathy works very hard, you know, she really had the job of running the company
on a day-to-day basis.
And we figured, well, women who have the same kind of stress and business
that men do, normally get ulcers as men do.
Sure.
And that's what we thought it was.
Yeah.
As soon as we got back to the States, you know, we didn't think of it too much,
much more deeply than that.
And as soon as we got back to the States, she went to a doctor, he sent her for further tests,
she went to a specialist, and she had CAT scans, because nobody could believe what they saw.
And then when they, when her doctor got me on the side, this was at Mount Sinai,
we went up to Mount Sinai and visited with several doctors.
And her doctor took me aside and said, Bob, I hate to tell you this,
but Kathy's got three, maybe at the most, six weeks to live.
Oh, boy.
Now you can imagine how.
You know, after 30 years of marriage, Kathy and I have been together,
actually now today we've been together 32 years, but this was two years ago.
And to suddenly hear that your wife has got three to six weeks to live.
I don't think anybody can imagine that unless they've lived through it.
I don't think I can.
I mean, it's so horrible.
I don't even know mentally how you deal with that.
It's the same old story.
When it's stage four, the medical profession has done all it can.
There's nothing else we can do for you.
They wanted to give her chemotherapy as a kind of last ditch I don't know.
But Kathy refused it. She wouldn't hear of chemotherapy.
She wouldn't hear of radiation.
She wouldn't... Well, surgery wouldn't have applied at that stage.
But the three classical techniques of dealing with cancer are surgery,
chemotherapy, and radiation. Kathy wouldn't hear of any of it.
She said, I'm not about to put poison into my body to clear up another poisonous situation.
And she was right, because 25% of all people who take chemotherapy die from the chemotherapy.
we never mind the cancer.
It's a very devastating treatment.
And you have a terrible quality of life while you're on chemotherapy.
She didn't want to know about it.
And we had been writing in Penthouse, we had been writing about a cancer therapy called hydrazine sulfate for 18 years.
We've been following the career of Dr. Joe Gold, who's the head of the Uh, Syracuse Cancer Research Center.
And we've had a lot of investigative reporters on it.
We've done a lot of work in the cancer area with other therapies as well.
And we believed over the years that gold was really onto something.
And while we were watching gold studies with hydrazine sulfate, we entered into a joint venture with the Soviet Academy of Sciences.
Something entirely unrelated.
We became very friendly with the academicians.
And when they came to the States, as they did rather frequently to visit with the American Academy and the New York Academy, they would stay with us.
So we had a constant flow of Russian, very senior Russian scientists, who when they came to New York would stay with us for a few days or at least have dinner with us and then go on to wherever they were going on.
So we got to know them all very well, and I wouldn't... I sat down with the president of the Russian Academy one afternoon at lunch here at the house, and I said to him, what do you... and his name was Rem, and he's the most senior immunologist in Russia.
I said, hey man, have you people ever worked with hydrazine sulfate?
And he said, oh yes!
He says, we've had seven... and this is the story, they've been conducting human trials for 17 years.
They're so taken with hydrazine sulfate because it is so cheap.
What is... For a communist regime, that's what they want.
Right.
What is hydrazine sulfate?
Well, it was originally developed as an industrial cleaner.
If you wanted to clean the Alaskan pipeline, you used hydrazine sulfate.
Hydrazine sulfate is also a component in rocket fuel.
So every time something takes off at Cape Kennedy, it's being powered by, among other
things, hydrazine sulfate.
But at the same time, it has a certain medicinal value and has been listed on the pharmacopoeia
for 55 years as a medicine.
And Gold was experimenting with hydrazine sulfate to prevent cataxia.
Cataxia and not cancer is the thing that kills you.
Cataxia is that stage of cancer, the late stage when the body begins to wither away.
Yes.
When the tumors start to cannibalize the body because they've already eaten all of the, they've already robbed you of all the nutrition that you take into your body.
Now they start on the body itself.
Sure.
And they kill the immune system and that's what you die of.
Cacaxia.
So gold, gold-developed hydrazine sulfate is a cure for cacaxia.
And when the Russians said to me that they were using The Russians don't have a problem with high disease so that the problem here is that it's so cheap nobody can make any money out of it.
That's why we can't get the government to get over its fat behind and do something about it because we feel that there is, you know, some shenanigans going on between people who are highly placed in the National Cancer Institute and some of the big pharmaceutical companies that spend three to four hundred million dollars to get something akin to an aspirin from the FDA and they don't want to see A drug for cancer that costs $3 a week or $150 a year.
Now when the average American family goes on chemotherapy, when the average American
family is treating a cancer victim, a father, a mother, a sister, a brother, whatever, given
that they have full insurance coverage, the fullest possible insurance coverage, it still
costs the average American family between $30,000 and $40,000 a year to treat cancer
in the classical way, in the normal way.
With hydrazine sulfate, it costs $150 a year.
Believe me, my wife in her own right, entirely without me, without the company behind her,
could afford any medicine in the world.
If she wanted to bring five senior physicians from Tokyo and put them up at the Plaza Hotel
and have them do nothing but look after her for two years, she could afford to do it.
But she opted to put her life where our mouth was.
When we talked about hydrazine sulfate, Kathy believed that that was the way to go.
So she began... We investigated, we talked about it, and she chose that route, and thank God that she did, because she's not only alive today, she's in complete remission.
She's as healthy as ever.
She even weighs more today than she used to weigh.
She looks terrific.
Complete remission, and this has been for how long?
Well...
Probably, uh, almost a year.
Almost a year.
From three to six weeks to live to a year in remission.
Right.
Wow.
All right, uh, hold tight with Bonner in the hour.
We'll be right back.
Bob Guccione, publisher of Penthouse Magazine, is my guest.
That's a pretty remarkable story, isn't it?
Now why do you suppose the rest of us can't get back?
The talk station am 15 Now back to Bob Buccioni, Bob.
Your wife, Kathy, is now in remission.
You said that hydrazine sulfate treated the wasting of the body, but not so much the cancer itself.
The condition called cachexia.
At the same time, it has an effect on the tumor, an effect of shrinking tumors.
So it's an absolutely marvelous drug.
And the fact that it's not available, generally available, I mean, you can buy it in this country,
but have a hard time getting a doctor to prescribe it unless he's very much aware of what's going on.
And we get something like 250 oncologists a week calling Gold, calling the research center
and asking how to use hydrazine sulfate because it has created that much interest.
And everybody who's on it has only good things to report.
Bearing in mind that Kathy's hospital is Mount Sinai.
Mount Sinai is one of the best hospitals in the United States.
It is also a bastion to chemotherapy.
And it is the recipient of the largest single grant that the National Cancer Institute gives any clinic
or research center or hospital in the United States.
So they are really bound to, their fortunes are bound in with chemotherapy.
And chemotherapy is the most expensive kind of treatment.
So that's what they wanted to do, but you wanted hydrazine, she wanted hydrazine sulfate.
So who'd you go to to get?
An interesting side light here is that the doctors at Mount Sinai
have been watching Kathy very carefully.
In the beginning, they all thought she was crazy.
Then they began to say, well, what's happening here?
What's going on?
Is she taking anything else?
Now they stand around scratching their heads saying, look there's got to be something to it.
And one of the most prominent doctors at Mount Sinai, a man by the name of Lynn Ratner, who also teaches at Sinai.
He's a very famous oncologist.
He, today, has 25 patients on hydrazine sulfate.
And guess what?
They're all doing well.
And a number of them have already shown tumor regression.
He is beside himself with joy.
He is calling for national tests of hydrazine sulfate.
This is right out of Mount Sinai.
All right, you've got to know this morning, there's a lot of the audience out there
sitting there with cancer, somebody they know who has cancer.
I don't know a family in America that doesn't have someone somewhere
suffering from cancer or who has already died of cancer.
That's it, so what do you tell them then?
Where do they go, what do they do?
Well, I would suggest that they either get directly in touch with us.
If they pick up the September issue of Penthouse, they'll see.
We do the whole story on caffeine, on hydrazine sulfate.
We talk about the National Cancer Institute, where to get the drug, how to get in touch with people.
Your doctor would have to call Joe Gold.
He can't take a call from a patient.
He can only take calls from doctors.
But if the patient can't get a copy of the September issue of Penthouse, they can write to us, General Media.
At 277 Park Avenue in New York, we will send them a complete package.
That is to say, all the articles and information that we have on hydrazine sulfate, including a lot of technical stuff.
Give the address again, Bob.
The address is General Media.
That's the... That's Penthouse Magazine.
General Media.
Two... Just address it to Penthouse Magazine.
277 Park Avenue, New York, New York.
And we will, and I can address it to Kathy Keaton, or I can just say cancer on the envelope, and we have a little staff there that does nothing but send material, you know, take phone calls and send material to people who request it.
How do we go about getting large-scale trials?
That's got to be next.
Well, interestingly enough, this is what we're complaining about.
Some years ago, between 1989 and 1993, UCLA University started national trials of 600 cancer patients on hydrazine
sulfate.
Really?
The trials were going swimmingly well.
All of a sudden, the National Cancer Institute steps in and takes over.
Now remember, the National Cancer Institute, the NCI, is a branch of the federal government.
Sure.
They stepped in and took over the conduct of the trials and immediately gave all 600 patients Things that were incompatible, that were not in the protocols.
For example, if you're taking hydrazine sulfate, you cannot drink.
You cannot take anti-anxiety or sleep pills or sleeping pills.
There are certain foods you can eat.
You can't eat sausages.
You can't eat hard cheese.
You can't eat bacon.
You can't eat certain prepared meats like ham.
It has no cider.
The only side effect that hydrazine sulfate has is it may give you some constipation.
And, you know, God help us, it's not as serious as cancer.
It's not like levels 4 cancer.
And also, in Kathy's case, it made her hair grow.
Her hair is thicker and more luxuriant than ever.
It makes her nails grow.
Those are the side effects.
Anyway, the NCI gave these incompatible elements to the 600 people and they all died.
Then they turned around and published an article saying, well, we conducted trials and because
we had been peppering the NCI with stories of hydrazine sulfate, we finally made them
do it.
And they were determined to find that hydrazine sulfate had no effect at all.
And that's what the results of their trials were.
Well, we knew that was a lot of baloney because we knew that they had given them these incompatibles.
So we went to the GAO, the Government Accounting Office.
Now, the Government Accounting Office is also a branch of the federal government.
It is Congress's investigative arm.
Right.
If Congress wants to investigate any other part of the government or the military or whatever, they use the GAO.
Follow the money.
Right.
The GAO began the investigation.
Now, bear in mind, we had to be on pretty safe grounds with our accusations against the NCI.
Because you have to make a prima facie case for the GAO before they move.
And we've made such a case.
They thought that our evidence was extremely credible.
So they started to investigate the NCI.
And they were in touch with us on a daily basis, literally.
Because every time the NCI gave them an answer to a question, they checked that with Joe Gold.
Because Joe was the expert.
And at one point, the point man at the GAO calls up Joe Gold and says, listen, Joe, I think we've got a smoking gun.
Because the NCI protested that, look, all right, we gave these these incompatibles, but no one told us about the protocol.
We didn't know there was such a protocol.
And then when the GAO called Joe, they said, we've got a smoking gun.
We have just surfaced an internal memorandum at the NCI In which they discuss the very protocol that they say they never heard of.
So we had them on that one.
And the GAO forced the NCI to republish in the Journal of Oncology another article saying that they did in fact give incompatibles and quite possibly that negated the study.
Then the NCI turns around and says, well look, to the NCI, I mean to the GAO, they say look, Maybe we did give these incompatibles, you know, perhaps we did.
But, and maybe we didn't know the protocol or someone knew the protocol, but no one told us that hydrazine sulfate was an MAO inhibitor and therefore attracted this particular protocol.
Now, That is also not a baloney, as the GAO discovered.
The GAO also discovered that there was extensive writings about the fact that hydrazine sulfate was an MAO inhibitor.
And if you look at the pharmacology, which I say has listed hydrazine sulfate for 55 years, it is listed as hydrazine sulfate MAO inhibitor.
So the NCI was way off base.
They were really wrong.
They published this apology in the Journal of Oncology.
They then turned around again to the G.A.O.
said, please stop this investigation because it's doing more harm than good.
Let us conduct our own retrospective analysis of those trials in 1989 to 1993.
So the G.A.O.
said, go ahead and do it.
They did, and their conclusion, which they again published, was, okay, we admit that we gave incompatibles.
We admit that there is a protocol.
We admit that hydrazine sulfate is an MAO inhibitor.
However, having Retrospectively analyzed all of our moods, the patients and what they received and so on.
We come to the determination that it would not have made any difference.
How scientific!
The G.A.O.
walk arm in arm into the sunset.
The good old boys patting each other on the back.
So we're not taking that lying down.
We are now searching for families and we've got ads posted in all of our publications and on the internet.
We're looking for families of those victims, those people that participated in the UCLA NCI trials between 89 and 93.
And when we find the first family that we find, because you can't get the names of anybody, the first family that comes forward, we're going to use to bring a class action suit against the NCI for what we term genocide.
And there's no other name for it.
And it's not unusual.
You know, I've had Lots of run-ins of people who say, our government wouldn't do a thing like that.
What about the Tesco Key experiments on the blacks?
What about the bloods on him?
Exactly.
And Agent Orange and all the other stuff.
We've got a hold in this issue of Penthouse, the September issue where we had the The story on Kathy called a $200 billion scam.
We have a sidebar which shows a lot of the things that the government has done exactly like this in the past.
They've actually killed people.
We're reaching millions of people so there's a real good chance, really good chance, that there is a family like that out there.
And if there is, they reached through this.
You should get in touch with us.
You should get in touch with General Media.
And we'll handle all the details.
We're not looking to anybody for money.
We don't want anything.
We're going to pay for the trial entirely ourselves.
And any family who comes forward would conceivably benefit from any award that we eventually get from the NCI.
We're going to sue them for a lot of money because they killed an awful lot of people.
What you really want, though, Our honest tests.
Absolutely.
We want the government to invest as little as five million dollars, never mind the billions and the hundreds of billions that they've invested in cancer research, in their own special kind of cancer research, mind you.
But they don't use any alternative remedies.
They haven't looked at anything else.
And the incidence of cancer per capita has increased per capita.
I know, I know.
It was one out of seven.
It became two out of five.
It's three out of five.
I know.
So everybody at some point in time is going to get something akin to cancer or they're going to have someone very near and dear to them who's going to come down with cancer.
And this condition, despite the billions, has not improved.
Do you have any thoughts?
Use hydrazine sulfate and get a result.
Bob, do you have any idea why cancers are increasing?
I heard a stat that says that And men, since World War II, men have had non-smoking
related cancer increases of 300%.
Yes, I believe it.
Any idea why?
Well, cancer is fundamentally like most diseases, it's a stress disease.
And we live in more and more stressful times.
Things are getting worse, not better.
We're becoming overpopulated.
We're destroying the natural resources of our planet.
And let's face it, we're eating more and more artificial foods.
Yep.
We're eating meat that one time came to you in a natural way.
Today, it comes impregnated with all kinds of strange hormones to beef up the cow, to blow the cow up, you know, as fast as possible so they can kill it and feed the masses.
The same thing's happening with chicken, battery chickens.
Pig, you know, pork.
All our foods are pesticides that are put in our vegetables.
We're not eating anything natural anymore.
We live in... We've got lots of contaminants in the atmosphere.
The seas and the rivers are not what they used to be.
If you notice, the sperm count among men all over the world has dropped dramatically.
And that is, again, a result both of stress and of the contaminants in our lives.
I absolutely agree with you.
I wrote a book about it called The Pricing.
I think in every aspect of human endeavor, Medicine.
Socially, our behavior is atrocious.
We've got children killing children.
We've got the value of life nearly is zero in inner cities.
Things are changing.
The environment, you mentioned the environment.
Single-celled microorganisms in Antarctica now because of UV radiation are beginning to show actual genetic change.
We're on the edge of some really serious problems right now.
And I think that everything is headed towards some sort of event, Bob.
I don't know what it's going to be.
Some kind of change.
Not the end of the world, but something is going to give.
Yeah.
Who's going to wake up the world population like overnight?
I think so.
Anyway, so The path you're going to take is going to be a class action suit when you find the right person because you really need a case.
Right.
And the ultimate goal is to get some real tests done.
Absolutely.
I mean, we've had a number of visits with congressmen.
We've talked to senators.
They absolutely agree that something has to be done.
We talked to a senator who said, look, I've been having a running battle.
With the FDA for years, the FDA will not allow certain medications to come into the United States which are used freely all over Europe.
They're available to everybody.
That's right.
They have tremendous efficaciousness.
And we can't get them to the United States because we haven't put them through the FDA in the normal, in the sporting way, you know, the classical traditional way.
We haven't done that.
And we, our government, refuses to accept tests conducted by other nations.
So in a lot of ways, it's true.
The rich live, the poor die.
I mean, if you're poor, and you've got a class 4 cancer, you're dead.
Art, you're right.
If you depend entirely on the system, you're dead.
If you can afford to go outside of the system, I had to send somebody, I had to send a man
to Tokyo to pick up vitamin K3.
Now vitamin K3 is another product which you can use synergistically with hydrazine sulfate.
It's vitamin K, it has a terrific effect on tumors, it shrinks and kills tumors without
having any side effect.
And when doctors in this country, and it's been available forever, now doctors in this
country some years ago, maybe 20 years ago, discovered that K, it was then vitamin K2,
that K2 could kill tumors and they started to use it and recommend it and prescribe it.
When the government found out about it, they went to Lillian Company, who was the pharmaceutical
company that made it, and they forced them to stop.
They killed vitamin K2.
Actually, they tried to kill all vitamins.
You know, they were raiding vitamins.
In fact, they still do.
They raid vitamin stores.
Because people are taking vitamins and not medicine.
They take vitamins to prevent, as a prophylactic experience, to prevent the use of medicines down the line.
And that takes money out of the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies.
And we're talking about tens of billions of dollars worth of business.
That these corporations throw off.
It's always money.
And as I say, we looked all over the world for K2.
We couldn't find it.
We found vitamin K3 in Japan.
And K3 is the closest to K2.
And we called Japanese and they said, we can't send it to you.
We cannot send it into America.
They were frankly frightened of the NCI because the NCI also funds programs outside of the United States.
They literally control Cancer therapy.
So you flew somebody there, put it in a suitcase and came home?
Brought it back, found out that it was K3 alright, but it had an ingredient that made it incompatible with hydrazine.
We had to continue our search.
We finally, through Israel, we found out that there was a manufacturer in Italy that was making K3 in a way that when you put it into the system it becomes K2.
That's how they got around the patent.
So we had to send somebody to Italy, because again, the Italians wouldn't send it over.
And they picked up the K3, brought it to this country, and Kathy was using vitamin K3 as well.
Well, there you are.
Bob and Kathy could afford to fly to Japan, or Israel, or wherever they have to go, but somebody without money?
They walk into a hospital?
Yeah, to pick up a cheap drug.
And they're getting chemicals and radiation, and they're gone pretty quick.
And so here it sits, then.
That's incredible.
Absolutely incredible.
And, uh, you say she's still, she's in remission?
Yep.
She's healthy.
Mark, if you saw Kathy today, you would never believe that she was a cancer victim.
Only two years ago, and she was given the outside six weeks to live.
You'd never believe it.
Do any of the traditional doctors, are they beginning to accept the ones who were close to Kathy's case?
Yeah, like that fellow Luton Ratner.
We also have a doctor at Sloan Kettering.
Sloan Kettering, again, There's a big institution, huge institution, big recipient of grants from the NCI and a bastion along with Mount Sinai to chemotherapy and the classical cancer therapies.
There's a doctor there who has his patients on chemotherapy and his family on hydrazine sulfate.
I wonder how he sleeps at night.
Well, look, the hour is up.
I promised you an hour, but what I would like to do, Bob, is to do more on another night sometime.
Can we?
And you can totally take care of me, I mean.
I'd love to.
You're right out of my mouth.
Yeah, I'd love to.
Can we plan that?
Absolutely.
All right.
I really, really appreciate your time, and I bet we do you some good, so... Oh, I'm sure you will, Art, and every little bit helps.
I mean, we're talking about life and death here.
If you hear from a family, please call me, Bob.
You bet.
Take care.
All right.
That's Bob Guccione, editor of Penthouse Magazine.
And yeah, I got a bunch of faxes crucifying the messenger.
But I say that was a fairly important message, wouldn't you?
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