Stan Tenen challenges Michael Drosnan's statistical claims, arguing the Hebrew Bible hides sacred geometry lost in translation, accessible only through Kabbalistic Pardes meditation akin to lucid dreaming. He warns that reckless digital animations of these patterns risk spiritual harm, whereas humility acts as a safeguard against ego-driven delusions. The discussion extends to the Great Pyramid as a resonant calcite device connected to Earth's crust, suggesting ancient structures functioned as consciousness tools rather than mere tombs, ultimately framing scripture as an exercise for achieving prophetic insight through altered states of awareness. [Automatically generated summary]
Well, actually, our situation was somewhat different.
I don't know Michael Drosnan, but my understanding is that he's a journalist.
He's a reporter.
And that what he is reporting on are published works and some unpublished works by statisticians, mostly in Israel now, some of whom were originally in UCLA a few years ago.
I remember reading some of the pre-publication papers that were submitted to statistical science on the codes at the office of a friend of mine at UC Berkeley about maybe five or six years ago now.
And so there's been a lot of time to think about this.
But this is modern work.
This was done statistically using computers in the last 10 or 15 years at most.
In fact, there was other work done much earlier by a Rabbi Weissmondel around the turn of the century.
Obviously, he didn't have computers.
But when I started my work, I didn't know about Rabbi Weissmondel at all.
And the statistical codes in the Bible and the Torah hadn't, that work hadn't been done yet either.
My approach to this was completely separate and was a kind of a mystery tale, an adventure, because I really didn't have any idea where it was going to lead when I first noticed these patterns simply by looking at the text in 1968.
The statistical work is through the five books of Moses, and one of the astonishing things about that work is that the patterns that are statistically most robust are found to be distributed through all five books, which is something that's very disturbing to the academic Bible scholars who believe that the five books of Moses were actually composed by humans over about a thousand-year period.
And so finding codes in letter sequences that extend through all five books would seem to be impossible from an academic scholarship point of view, which means that they have a different explanation than the explanation of the religious scholars.
My explanation is a third explanation which seems to resolve the two in an unexpected way.
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Narrative Patterns in Hebrew00:16:10
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And each month, you can read very personal editorials from me, George Norrie, interviews, which cover areas that you don't hear on the air, articles from guests which are not on the internet, and relevant news stories that don't always get covered by the mainstream.
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You never know what you'll hear on Coaster Coast AM with George Norris.
We've got Robert in Houston.
There's this lady that I've seen about four or five times in my lifetime.
She's tall and skinny.
She had some tight blue jeans, some Indian moccasins.
She had on a rainbow-striped poncho and a little flop hat.
I saw this woman when I was about eight or nine.
I saw her again.
I was living in Dallas, Texas.
I was on the bus with her.
She was standing outside.
Did she look like she aged?
No.
And here's the crazy thing: about five years ago, me and two of my brothers, we all went on a cruise to St. Thomas down at the bridge.
Oh, no, don't tell me.
We got on one of these little jitney buses, and my brothers, he said, see that lady over there?
We saw that lady in Jacksonville.
Last November, my brother died.
He had surgery.
He had woke up.
He was getting ready to eat his breakfast and everything.
And he said, oh, he said, I got you off the phone.
He said, I got company.
He said, you know, the lady we saw down in the office in St. Thomas?
He said, she's sitting over there in the chair.
Let me talk to her and I'll call you back.
15 minutes later, my niece called back.
He was dead.
She's dead.
She was deaf.
Great story.
Now we take you back to the night of July 8, 1997, on Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Nine of the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence were members of a mysterious brotherhood.
Before I went down, I had to go up to the very spot the Masons made famous.
Was not the fact that Fort Mifflin actually changed the course of the Revolutionary War to defend against enemy threats from the river.
And during the Civil War, these munitions rooms were huge.
And now, glad to have you aboard.
Also, welcoming WTKF.
They would be at 107.3 on the dial in Newport, North Carolina.
Another big one, 25,000 watts, probably heard all over the place.
All over the place in North Carolina, that portion of North Carolina.
So welcome aboard to all of those stations.
Now, we're going to be talking about codes in the Bible here in a moment.
Stan Tennon is the director of research for the Meru Foundation of Sharon, Massachusetts.
He has a B.S. in Physics, 1963 from the New York Polytechnic Institute.
Mr. Tennon has designed and produced optical and electronic equipment for doctors and surgeons.
He holds several patents in his own right.
In 1968, while examining the Hebrew text of Genesis, Mr. Tennon noticed what appeared to be a pattern in the arrangement of the letters.
This observation, which prompted 30 years of research into the history and mythology of the text, has led to a meaningful understanding of traditional teachings in a modern context.
Now, many of you will be familiar with the work of Michael Groznin.
Droznan, I believe it is, who wrote the Bible codes.
And Mr. Droznan's take on the Bible codes is that they relate prophecy, that they tell us about things to come.
And I think that Stan Tennon's explanation of what he has found is far more elegant in every way you can imagine.
Well, actually, our situation was somewhat different.
I don't know Michael Drosnan, but my understanding is that he's a journalist.
He's a reporter.
And that what he is reporting on are published works and some unpublished works by statisticians, mostly in Israel now, some of whom were originally in UCLA a few years ago.
I remember reading some of the pre-publication papers that were submitted to statistical science on the codes at the office of a friend of mine at UC Berkeley about maybe five or six years ago now.
And so there's been a lot of time to think about this.
But this is modern work.
This was done statistically using computers in the last 10 or 15 years at most.
In fact, there was other work done much earlier by a Rabbi Weissmondel around the turn of the century.
Obviously, he didn't have computers.
But when I started my work, I didn't know about Rabbi Weissmondel at all.
And the statistical codes in the Bible and the Torah hadn't, that work hadn't been done yet either.
My approach to this was completely separate and was a kind of a mystery tale, an adventure, because I really didn't have any idea where it was going to lead when I first noticed these patterns simply by looking at the text in 1968.
The statistical work is through the five books of Moses, and one of the astonishing things about that work is that the patterns that are statistically most robust are found to be distributed through all five books, which is something that's very disturbing to the academic Bible scholars who believe that the five books of Moses were actually composed by humans over about a thousand-year period.
And so finding codes in letter sequences that extend through all five books would seem to be impossible from an academic scholarship point of view, which means that they have a different explanation than the explanation of the religious scholars.
My explanation is a third explanation which seems to resolve the two in an unexpected way.
First, the Bible we have in English is a translation of one form or another.
The most common in the United States is the so-called King James Translation, which is basically very similar to the others.
There are minor differences.
The official Hebrew translation is a little different than the King James.
The Catholic is a little different than the Protestant versions.
But these are in English.
The original text of the Hebrew Bible is not written in English.
It's written in Hebrew.
And Hebrew has a different number of letters in the alphabet, and obviously the words are spelled differently than in English.
And what most people don't know about the Hebrew Bible is that both scholars, academic, and religious scholars agree that the oldest versions of the Hebrew Bible, which none exist now, but nevertheless this is understood, the text wasn't broken up into words.
It was literally a sequence of Hebrew letters.
And even more interestingly, Hebrew doesn't use vowels as letters normally, so that you literally can't even read the text unless you know where to divide it up into words and unless you know how it's properly vowelized.
And then you can read words that you can translate and that you can assemble into sentences and verses, and that leads to the English translation that we all know and love.
And there's absolutely every reason to believe that the sages and scholars who worked on these texts, worked on these translations, did the absolute best job they could.
But it's necessary to understand that there's a very ancient teaching about the Hebrew Bible, which is the source of all of this, that very few non-Jews and even not very many Jews really know about.
I can probably dig up a quotation here directly for you if someone calls in and really wants it.
But there's a Kabbalistic teaching that the very worst tragedy that ever occurred in Judaism was not the golden calf, which everyone would think was the worst thing that you could do.
But the rabbis actually taught that it was the translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek, the Septuagint translation, the original translation from Hebrew into a modern language, that was the worst tragedy.
Why do they say that?
Because they said the original Hebrew wasn't just a narrative story.
It also included patterns in the sequences of letters, which when you make a translation are lost.
And the tragedy was that the Hebrew Bible became known only as a narrative story.
Now, I'm not disputing the narrative story.
That's not an issue here.
But in fact, the original teachings are that it was more than that.
They are patterns that were also discovered statistically, but they are of much lower statistical reliability because it's not really known what proper statistical test to make.
All of statistical science is based on having a model.
If you open up any introductory book on statistics, the first thing the author will say in the introduction, in the preface, in the first chapter is, the statistics is a wonderful science, but let's not forget we can't rely on statistical discoveries unless we have a model that helps to explain the context for the discovery.
Now, that's the missing piece.
Without a context, we can't sort gratuitous, fortuitous, accidental, coincidental codes from really important ones.
My question then was, how does Michael Drosnan come up with Bible codes which seem to predict future events, prophecy, and you come up with Bible codes that reach an entirely different conclusion?
In other words, if there is a statistical reality.
Let me use an example that I think the majority of people listening will be familiar with.
This is not from Jewish tradition, but it's based on Jewish tradition and it's Christian teaching.
And the idea is that the Torah, if I can use it in this context, is not a fish of prophecy.
It's a fishing pole of prophecy.
It's not that they wrote down explicit Explicit prophecies.
People mistake this.
It's not a book like Nostradamus that's telling us explicitly what's going to happen on a particular date in the future.
That's a fish.
Instead, my theory is that the text is woven as a kind of exercise that a person can do when they read the text, and that that leads them to a state of consciousness that can enable them, possibly, if they're a sage, if they're appropriately saintly, that can lead them to a state of prophecy, possibly.
Now, I don't even know if such a thing really can happen, but there's a big difference between a list of prophecies that are a bunch of fish piled up and a method by which appropriately educated and caring and saintly people could achieve the level of knowledge of some of the sages and prophets of Judaism and later.
To cut it short, if I can recall properly, in the last program, there was an aha moment, which came in the second hour, in which you talked about geometric patterns which would enable a person to, in effect, and I'm going to be simplistic here, but enter an altered state.
And for example, with respect to Genesis, literally experience creation.
Let's tell the story, because people actually, we got an enormous response to that show, close to 500 inquiries, which I'm really quite overwhelmed with.
Can I tell a little more detail about this experience that's known in the Talmudic tradition, which most people don't know about?
There's a famous story about Rabbi Akiba.
Now, Rabbi Akiba was a great sage.
He was one of the people attributed as one of the people that we believe wrote down some of the Kabbalistic, some of the more so-called mystical texts in Judaism.
The Sephorazira, for instance.
He was known to be an expert on the alphabet.
He's mentioned in the Talmud.
He lived less than a century after the founder of Christianity and that whole circle.
So it's in the same period in the same cultural context, actually.
He is said to have gone, had done a special meditation.
Now, first, let's ask ourselves, where would an Orthodox rabbi find a meditation that they would dare to do?
Obviously, only looking into traditional texts.
They weren't going to do something they made up themselves.
There's a lot of teachings that you shouldn't do that.
So we have to assume Rabbi Akiba looked into the Torah and used his knowledge of the alphabet and somehow was able to do this so-called pardise, which is the root of our word paradise.
It refers to the Garden of Eden, the pardees meditation.
And the story goes that Rabbi Akiba and three companions who were essentially as qualified as he was, great sages, endeavored to do this pardon's meditation.
And the experience was so overwhelming that the first person that attempted this didn't come out of the meditation.
They died in the meditation.
They were lost in paradise, never came back.
The second person was a little more grounded, and they made it back, but they were so overwhelmed by what they saw and experienced in this high state of consciousness that they became kind of a space gay as we call them today.
They were intoxicated with the experience.
They were overwhelmed by it.
They were not rational anymore.
The third companion came back okay, but he was so shaken, his name is Aker, I believe, which means the other.
He was so shaken that he lost his religious faith entirely and only came back with his rational mind intact.
In fact, because his logic and his knowledge was still so good, he's actually still quoted in the Talmud, even though he's no longer considered to be a religious Jew.
Stan, can you explain to me, can I stop you and ask you what you could imagine the experience would be, the paradise experience or the experience of Genesis or the understanding of all of creation that would cause you to lose your faith?
Well, it's sort of like having maybe a bad acid trip, to use a modern metaphor, where a person comes back so shaken that it's not that they lose their faith, they can't face it anymore.
They're in a state of they're literally overwhelmed emotionally and they can become cold emotionally because they can't deal with it.
Well, but it would be, you would imagine, no matter how shocking, it would be confirmation of everything that we all want to know about, confirmation of life after death, confirmation of what's in the Bible in Genesis, confirmation of so many things that it's hard to imagine it could turn out to be a negative, particularly to the degree that you would lose your faith, that only it would reinforce your faith.
I wonder if you can understand the profound nature of what we're talking about.
I wonder how many of you remember interviews done long, long ago now with many very famous prophets.
I wonder if any of you recall That, for example, Gordon Michael Scallion, with regard to his prophecy, claimed that prior to acquiring the power that he got, he saw an array of geometric patterns.
Geometric Patterns and Pandey's Meditation00:12:23
One of the great prophets, I believe, modern day, is Gordon Michael Scallion.
And he told his story, weaved his tale.
That's for you, Stan.
very powerfully.
And one of the things he said with regard to the condition that allowed him to acquire his prophecy was the vision of geometric patterns that appeared to him.
And then he began to acquire the power.
What Stan Tennon is talking about is geometric patterns as well, leading to a state that one can reach called Pandey's meditation.
We'll talk more about that in a moment.
If it seems confusing to you, stick with us and we'll try and make it clear.
It's finally all clearing up for me.
unidentified
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You have nothing, but if you take that and you spin it, what you then have is two complete circles.
As you achieve rotation, as you begin to rotate this, suddenly you have in the spinning two complete circles discernible to the eye.
And what Mr. Ruby discovered, he's an airline pilot, by the way, is he discovered that if you take crop circles and put them on paper and go through an elaborate business and end up spinning them, they suddenly make all the sense in the world.
And isn't it a little bit like the way you have approached the Bible?
In other words, these are patterns as well, and they're not understood until you do the right thing with them.
But if you really understand how this spinning process works, though, what we can spin in three dimensions is only a minor idea of how you can spin things.
There are more complicated spins that one can do to a form that bring it to higher dimensions more fully.
So there's a little more formal process that one can use.
Yes, the way you look at something is going to affect what you see.
That's a very important principle, and we all have to recognize that.
Whether you look at pi as a random number or as completely determined, depends not on the sequence of digits, but on what you know about them.
If you don't know how far from the decimal point the digits in pi are, then you can use that as a quasi-random number, and people do that.
As soon as you're told that it's so many digits from the decimal point, it becomes exactly pi, and it's totally non-random.
The difference between pattern and not pattern is as much in our mind as it is in data.
That's why this is a science of consciousness and not just science per se, because there's an interaction between us and these patterns.
So I can't tell you much about the crop circles, but I can tell you the principle is correct.
How you look at something does depend, does affect what you see.
No doubt about that, and that's true in science in general.
Well, certainly the fear and and my being overwhelmed by the experience is something I can only say the words, but I can't, you know, it it you don't have that experience until you have it.
No, there really wasn't a lot.
I wasn't really prepared for it.
And in fact, it spurred me to get more prepared.
That's one of the reasons why I decided to take Judaism more seriously, which was my background culturally, but I wasn't really a religious person at the time.
And I realized that in order to be able to make sense of what I was seeing and experiencing and looking at, I had to stop reinventing the wheel and go back and read and study what other people had done and get myself grounded.
Otherwise, even if I could pull this off again, I didn't want to come back like one of Rabbi Akiva's friends, dead or crazy.
I wanted, if I was going to be able to do something, which I would still like to be able to do, perhaps, later in my life, is be whole enough, like Rabbi Akiba was, to be able to come back whole and intact.
I guess the modern terminology, I forget whether this is from Robert Anton Wilson or someone else, is that you don't carry weapons into chapel perilous.
If you go into a spiritual place defended with materiality, then you're going to get whooped by materiality.
If you go in open and undefended, if you're a saintly person, not faking it, really there, then it can open for you.
Then it can be a real and positive experience.
And I think that's what the story of Rabbi Akiba is about.
Whether people were really fully prepared or not or only really appeared to be prepared but weren't completely prepared.
And the whole point of the rabbi, of the Cardei's experience, though, I didn't really get to finish the story.
Most people end the story where we stopped, but there's more to it.
And this is what should interest our audience and why we have some reason to believe that we are talking about something that may be of a special nature and consciousness here.
Rabbi Kiba, after this event, goes on to have additional history.
He dies tragically.
He's literally skimmed alive by the Romans, and it's a very painful situation.
And he says he's in ecstasy at the time.
He's not really feeling the pain of it, which is hard for us to understand.
I don't think I could undergo that and feel good about it.
But before this all happens, he appoints a Jewish general, a guy named Ben-Kasiba, as Bar Kakba.
Bar Kakba is the Hebrew Aramaic term that means son of the star.
And my feeling is that he was talking about the same prophetic star as became important in the Christian tradition as designating the founder of Christianity.
I think that that's part of what happened.
The story in Judaism, however, is not the same.
The Romans eventually do kill Bar Kakba, and so he's not the Messiah, and that's the end of the story.
Except there are diaries kept by one of the most famous Kabbalists of all time, one of the leaders of the Jewish community in Islamic Spain, Rabbi Nachmanides.
He kept diaries of a disputation that he was ordered to participate in under the Inquisition.
Yeah, well, unfortunately for Rabbi Nachmanides, this was done in the court of King James II of Aragon, who was an extraordinary leader and who kept his word and saw to it that the Jews weren't killed afterwards.
But there was a persecution and Nachmanides had to flee.
However, during the course of the disputation, and this is documented, at one point, Pablo Cristiani, the representative of the church, asked Rabbi Akiba, isn't it true that the Talmud teaches that the Messiah will be born when the temple is destroyed?
And Nachmanides replies, and this is where we get back to the story.
The Messiah, Mashiach, is waiting in Pardee, waiting in Gon Aden.
The implication is that the experience of this opening to a higher reality, which we've all been promised in the Western faith, is not necessarily tied to an individual, such as the founder of the Christian faith, but may be related to the experience of the Pardeus experience.
unidentified
All right, stand, hold on.
We're at the top of the hour.
We'll be right back.
You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from July 8th, 1997.
Okay, so you've got stream link for full access to coasttocoastam.com.
You've downloaded the Apple iPhone app to take it all with you on the go, and you get the daily Coast Zone email newsletter delivered right to your inbox.
But aren't you forgetting something?
Yes, you are.
It's the one and only Afterdark magazine.
Coast to Coast AM puts out a monthly four-color magazine that readers have been enjoying for more than 15 years.
And each month, you can read very personal editorials from me, George Norrie, interviews, which cover areas that you don't hear on the air, articles from guests which are not on the internet, and relevant news stories that don't always get covered by the mainstream.
Subscribe now and cover all of your Coast to Coast AM media bases.
Call our new number at 1888-261-6392.
That's 188-261-6392.
It's $39.95 for 12 monthly issues.
You can also subscribe online at CoastToCoastAM.com.
That's www.coastacoastam.com.
Here's what you missed on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
I want to talk with you about the Globalists.
What made them so greedy?
What made them so evil?
The reason the globalists are upset is because the public is now realizing this is life and death.
This is serious, folks.
When I tell you that they're in trouble, that doesn't mean we're winning.
It just means we have a fighting chance that we're in the game, and everybody needs to have the maximum effort right now to get the word out, or these people are going to win.
Now we take you back to the night of July 8, 1997, on Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Art, at about 5.30 this morning, my wife came into my den looking for me to find me immersed in Stan Tennant's tape, the alphabet in our hands, third viewing of it.
He's not only a genius, as noted before, but he is poetic in his presentation.
I don't know if you've had time to look at the copy of Geometric Metaphors, but if you did and were intrigued by it, you'll be blown away by the alphabet.
Thank you, Daryl.
And then there's one other.
Art, I have heard about a secret biblical code for years now.
One thing doesn't seem right to me.
The Bible originally had around 135 books before it was revised by church officials over the years.
With this thought in mind, could you please ask Stan how the coding could possibly still be intact when portions of the Bible have been withheld and the Bible revised to just 66 books?
Well, I'm not an expert on the Christian Bible, and there are some differences, but I can tell you with regard to the Torah text that the oldest copies that we have now go back about a thousand years.
I think one of them is the so-called Leningrad Codex, which is, I believe, still in Leningrad, which has probably got a different name now.
And in fact, there are many books that were not included in the main Hebrew Bible, even in the Hebrew tradition, but they do become part, at least some of them become part of what's called the Tanakh, which is not just the five books of Moses, but it includes the writings and the Proverbs and other additional materials that aren't really part of the Bible per se in the Hebrew tradition.
Now, the problem with translations, I think we mentioned earlier, once you start translating these texts, and the original is actually Hebrew and or Aramaic, the Hebrew and Aramaic alphabets are the same.
And that's one of the distinctions between the Jewish tradition and the other Abrahamic faiths is that Judaism includes the Talmud, the so-called oral Torah, the oral Bible, which isn't accepted by Christians and Muslims and is one of the things that divided our cultures centuries ago, so that you would get a different answer, perhaps, from a Christian or a Muslim than you would get from a rabbi on some of these questions.
And I don't want to speak for others.
I don't think that's appropriate.
Let me go back to a couple of other things that you said.
The Pardes meditation story, actually, although I was just telling it and paraphrasing it, it's not my story or my finding.
This is actually written in the oral Torah, in the Talmud, in Aramaic.
And you can find references there and read it or read translations of it today.
The word Pardes isn't actually even a word.
It's our word, paradise, in English.
But the fact that the acronym with the PRD and S, again, the vowels don't appear in Hebrew, stand for story level, hint level, discussion level, and foundation level.
Now, that foundation level, the S stands for sud, is foundation.
That's the sequence of letters that's not retained when you make translations.
That's the area that we're looking at.
That's what the Bible codes researchers have found, using their statistical methods, have found codes in.
It's not the story.
It's not the words of the text that anybody's contesting or discussing here.
The research papers on which Drosden is reporting were based on the Masoretic Hebrew text, the standardized text accepted by Orthodox Jews throughout the world.
How is it possible, San, that he came to one conclusion, as you pointed out earlier, fish, in essence, with very specific predictions or prophecy, actual words predicting, for example, a Kennedy would be killed, whatever.
And you, on the other hand, conclude that, no, this is a process by which you can divine these things once you enter this state.
In other words, if there is a code, how do the two of you disagree?
In fact, you're putting your finger on a very important issue here.
What Michael Drosden and most of the other people reporting on the statistically detected codes have done, probably innocently, I don't really know, is they've confused two different findings.
There are really two different groups of codes.
There are codes that are of very high statistical probability, which spell out simple words like the word Torah or the name of God, which everyone agrees are not accidental and are very real, and no one has any explanation for.
Then there are these shorter codes, so-called, that seem to correlate either rabbis' names or famous people's names with their birth dates or special events of some sort.
These are not normal codes in the same sense.
One, they're not really predictive.
You need to know the event before you can find the pattern.
And you scientists will tell you that that's very, very shaky.
No, they've actually been sloppy in mixing up two different sets of findings.
And what I'm doing is not statistically based at all.
I didn't have knowledge of the statistics.
The work wasn't even done.
What I did was I came upon by basically really brute force methods.
It took me almost 20 years of concentrated experimentation to find a way of relating the letters in a very simple sense that displayed these patterns.
In other words, what I did is what let me tell the tell the audience again, because this is a very good lesson in spiritual growth, too.
I didn't know it at the time.
I came into this as a person with a bachelor's degree in physics with an experience making medical equipment and doing electronics and that sort of thing.
And I had all kinds of technical tests that I had at my disposal that I could use to look for these patterns.
And I tried every sophisticated test I could think of.
And then it finally, one, I didn't succeed.
And two, it finally dawned on me that I was being very arrogant here.
I was presuming that I was the first person finding this stuff that could have been known in the ancient world because they didn't have these sophisticated tests.
And in fact, that's silly.
What I was really looking for, which I didn't know at the time, was something that could have been known in the ancient world based on technology that they did have.
Now, once I realized that, I started doing things that were really simple, things that everyone does.
Like, for instance, all of us in our culture have the experience as children of making paper models, where the model is rigged for you to be able to assemble it, because all you have to do, if you cut it out right, is put tab A in slot A, tab B and slot D, and the thing, the model, folds up into what was intended by the person who made it.
After giving up on all of these sophisticated techniques, after being properly humiliated technically, I was humbled.
My arrogance was reduced.
I'd spent a lot of time and a lot of effort, talked to a lot of experts, got nowhere.
I was reduced to doing, I used to tell people that this was like blithering idiot status.
It was basically got more childlike stance.
And I started playing with it.
And what I did is I wrote the letters of the Hebrew text out, one letter each, on a bead, on a bead chain, in order.
And then I merely curled up the bead chain until the same letters lined up with each other.
Just like tab A and slot A. Voila.
And when I did that, just like with the paper model that we all have used as children or seen someone use, the bead chain, the paper, folded itself up into a form that I could recognize.
In fact, a very simple set of forms that unfolded one to the other in a very simple, logical, and very universal and compact and elegant way.
And what I found was literally what I'd been seeing all these years I'd been studying, all the sacred geometry, all the platonic solids, all the vortex forms, instead of just seeing this mishmash that I couldn't make sense of, bingo, the text of the Torah in Hebrew at the letter level was producing these patterns in order, in a beautiful, elegant order that unfolded naturally.
Is there a way, for example, on a videotape, you may have already done it, and that's what the facts are may have been talking about, but is there a way with computer, modern computer graphic demons, you know, the graphic ability to actually show this occurring?
We are working on a video right now, which we're hoping to make available to the table stations and the networks when it's finished.
No contracts have been signed.
I've been working with some people in Seattle and maybe in San Francisco who have been working on computer graphic animations that literally show how this first letter point in the text blossoms and unfurls like a living thing.
In other words, if you are able through computer graphics to actually show these patterns being put together, are you not liable to put the person viewing the tape into what's called the parte's meditation state?
It has occurred, and it is a serious consideration.
My answer is I don't think there's much danger, and I'll tell you why.
These ideas were never really hidden or made secret.
They may have been certain circumstances in which they were.
But in fact, they're not made secret or kept secret or written in confusing terms in Kabbalistic or Sufi texts just to keep them secret.
The reason that these texts seem opaque to us is because most of us haven't done our homework.
If you were to look at Shakespeare and you didn't know English, it would be opaque to you.
There's a kind of natural safeguard built into this system where you can only really appreciate it to the level appropriate to you.
Now, if you are really a bully and you force yourself into chapel perilous with weapons blazing, you're going to get whooped.
You bet.
Okay, well, that's a careless person in any context.
That's not just here.
But if you're a gentle person, if you step humbly, and if you base your growth and exploration of these ideas on integrity, then they will open for you safely.
And that's the whole point.
If you act recklessly, if you act in a foolhardy way when you're dealing with important spiritual concepts, yes, you can get in trouble, you can get hurt.
But if you act within, say, one of the reasons I'm grounding my work in Judaism is because I am fearful of doing damage to myself or others.
And I want to take a time-tested path that is going to help to keep me in a safe bounds with what I'm doing.
I'm trying not to be arrogant.
In fact, to the extent you're arrogant, this understanding closes to you, and all you get is the external shell.
And there are a whole bunch of spiritual gurus out there that are selling shells, if I can use that term.
Yes, you can.
And in fact, we are suffering.
One of the reasons we haven't done the animation so far is because we haven't gotten any funding.
And one of the reasons our funding dried up was because a plagiarist took this work and they believed he was us.
Well, I guess it depends on how practiced you are.
There are several really good books out, and there's been some first-class research done on lucid dreaming.
I think there's a Dr. Ola Berge, I believe, connected with Stanford that's written a number of books.
I don't know him personally, but my understanding is that there's a body of modern scientific work that helps a person to gain access to lucid dreaming, and that enables them to grow with that expansion in their conscious life.
I can only explain what my personal experiences have been, which have been very limited.
But I know one thing is very striking about lucid dreaming, and that is the access to it is the same in the Talmudic tradition from the Middle East coming to us thousands of years ago as it is in Carlos Castaneda's recent works a few decades ago on the Yaque Indians.
In both cases, in the Talmud and in Castaneda, the recommendation is: if you would like to become lucid in your dream, remember to look at your hand in your dream.
And that's what takes us right back to the beginning of our discussion.
Because in fact, the Hebrew and later Greek and Arabic letters appear to be shadows of our hand.
And if we look at these letters in our waking life and look at these letters in our mind's eye, then we're going to open ourselves to lucidity in this life and in our dream life.
And maybe when we qualify, these processes will open for us to a deeper level.
That's at least my conjecture.
I mean, I don't know of anybody who's actually taken this all the way.
We don't have any messiahs around at the moment.
I think that's probably a good thing.
There's a teaching that the messianic experience is always available, and when we merit it, it'll happen.
I know others have different teachings.
That's a Jewish teaching.
It may be that the Pardee's meditation itself is the messianic experience, and that we're all ultimately intended to emulate the founders of our faiths and walk in the shoes of a Moses or a Jesus or a Muhammad, who were, depending on your tradition and beliefs, had access to these levels.
Maybe that's what's coming forward in this century.
The rabbis have taught for several hundred years now that the modern age is going to bring these combinations, these mystical so-called, they're not really mystical, but that's a word that's used, these teachings to everyone.
It's the scientist, the scientific world that's going to open the emotional world, open the locks of these codes, and enable us to regain our heritage.
And religion, in its best sense, is about connection and memory and waking up and integrating your own personality.
It's not a matter of just following rules.
That's how you start off.
You teach a kindergarten child the rules.
But later you empower a person with these teachings.
They're not supposed to end in Sunday school.
They're supposed to start there.
This is not something that you just study.
Learning to be a more honest person is a way of life.
And you don't have to be a religious person to know that.
All of our philosophers would teach that, whether they were religious in the Western sense or in any sense at all.
Even atheists know that.
So these are our deep, deep principles that we all share regardless of our faiths or our beliefs.
And we access them by the level of our integrity and our intention to be giving people and learning people and yielding people.
And when we aspire to that, then life opens for us.
And when we try to control and manipulate, when we get scared, as I was when I had this experience with the alphabet, then we limit ourselves and we have to fight our way.
We have to work our way back to knowledge.
So, I mean, this is part of working our way back to knowledge.
It's part of what the Kabbalists call tikkun, repairing the world.
Is there a way for an ego-tripping, self-absorbed, greedy, you know, all the modern attributes that we could more or less assign to a lot of people who are walking around today?
This kind of person, is there a way for this kind of person to approach this experience and change slowly?
Or if you begin to have this experience, are you doomed?
I think that, again, really depends on your inclination.
If you approach this with respect, then it will open slowly and to the extent that you can handle it.
If you jump in before you're ready, you get into a race car and floor it before you know how to handle it on the track, you're going to crack up.
That's what's happening with a number of people and teachers that are out on the public scene now.
You see the lunacy on the internet.
The internet is a wonderful communication pathway, but it also contains stuff that will get us all in trouble.
I mean, humility, when you're handed something powerful, is very important.
And a child that doesn't appreciate what matches can do in a room full of gasoline really isn't ready for those matches.
So yes, you're right.
You don't give a criminally insane person techniques for doing anything.
You try to calm them down and get them sane first.
But to the extent that we are not insane people, that most people are normal people at various stages of development, various places in life, and we're not gratuitously vicious or mean, and that we're intending to be good people, even if we don't get it right every time.
If you're humble and you're in that position, and if you study seriously what our great sages have taught and not just head off on your own, then yes, this can open in a very safe way.
In fact, I think that's part of what the new age is really intended to do, is to open this can of worms gently so that we can savor it.
Worms, I used the allusion there, so we can experience it in a way that's going to be helpful to us, so it doesn't burn us out.
We want to find safe uses for our modern technology.
We want to do things that are going to help us to live together and build an ecology that works together.
And these same principles that you're worried about hurting us are the same principles we have to master if they're going to help us.
try to be a good person but i i understand my own limitations i have uh stand a lot of for example um i believe strongly in revenge i i'm a very ambitious person uh...
i don't think that uh...
in fact i know that doesn't translate my case to greedy I'm not greedy, but I am very ambitious.
I want to be the very best at what I'm doing.
And these are egotistical markers, I'm sure.
And if I were to have that kind of experience, I'm not sure I'd come out on the other end at all whole.
Well, and if you're aware of that, you may be starting to grow.
Well, when you say you're starting to grow and are aware of it, see, no one ever gets there.
The question is, do you intend to be going in the right direction?
No one ever is going to be perfect.
None of us are ever going to be sad.
I don't know any saints.
There are supposedly hidden saddest saints in the world, and maybe they're hidden.
We don't see them.
But I don't know any saints.
I'm not going to be a saint.
But I do know I would prefer to learn to be a better person than to continue to be as limited as I've been in the past to the extent I'm aware of those possibilities.
And I would also like the people I know to be able to grow and improve and enjoy their lives better.
And you grow and improve doesn't mean that he who ends up with the most toys wins.
It means that we all can share an enjoyable and fulfilling life together.
So again, encapsulated, those who have had NDEs or have experienced soul travel or some other form of meditation that gives them great insight or abilities, even abilities, they come out of it able to prophesize or whatever, are, in effect, stumbling into it, bumbling into it.
And what you have is you have discovered a woven ability to actually enter this state at will through codes in the Bible.
And when deciphered, if understood, lead to an experience known as the paradise experience.
In other words, what Stan Tennon is saying is that if you understand and go into meditation based on these codes and the geometric patterns produced by these codes, you will experience what's in the Bible.
For example, in Genesis, creation, actually experience it yourself.
I know I'm not up to it, and I doubt many people are out there, but that is what he's saying.
And then I asked, well, do you get it?
And here's a couple of typical responses, and I want Sam to hear them.
Geometric paradigms embedded in stories of God drowning all children and babies in a global flood, an earth populated by a very incestuous family, meaningless, equivocal BS, and he didn't put BS, he did the whole thing, not worthy of any Art Bell show.
Response one, that's from Doc Berry in Phoenix.
Or this, Dear Art, yes, I get it.
I teach it.
Not only do I get what he's saying, I agree, and I'm teaching the same thing from a doctor whose name I will not have mentioned, will not mention, or this, dear art, your guest is outstanding.
I have searched for the truth my whole life in my own way.
And my conclusions this far are almost exactly what your guest is saying.
And although this just scratches the surface of the whole picture, I'm excited to hear someone else has a similar view.
The power he is talking about is available to anyone who has the insight and intelligence to learn via their purpose, good or bad, and your guest is wise not to openly say it is so with the social degenerates of society today.
This would be a dangerous time in history.
So, Stan, there you are.
Two very different or three very different responses to what you've been saying.
Well, I'm having the first time I presented this material to people who later became part of the board of directors of Meru Foundation, which we put together to support this, one of the people in the room stomped out in the middle, muttering, this is the work of the devil, and never came back.
People are entitled to their opinions.
I think the criticism is based on a misunderstanding of what I'm saying, but I understand that reaction.
I don't know if the person in fact heard the whole program, so maybe they missed a few of the things that I said.
I'm not trying to criticize, defend, or promote the stories in the Bible.
And the patterning that I'm talking about is not directly related to the stories that we all know and either love or hate, depending on how you feel about the Bible.
I'm saying that as a scientist, I examined the document and I found woven into it, and I use the word woven because I think the text actually was woven.
Woven into it, patterns that I recognized, and I looked for an explanation for them.
And the explanation I'm finding is pretty far-fetched if you haven't looked into this for yourself.
Obviously, it's far-fetched.
If it weren't far-fetched, we'd all know about it already.
And it is something I don't think people should believe.
I think they should check out what I'm saying.
On our website, there's actually a statement of the relationship of the three Abrahamic covenants, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, to something I call the car passing trick.
And the point I make is don't believe any of this unless you do the experiments for yourself.
And these are not necessarily scary experiments any more than normal dreaming would be scary or normal daydreaming or fantasizing would be scary.
Obviously, people can do crazy things in any context.
Well, the car passing trick, which I've discussed at length in other contexts, is based on an understanding of the relationship of the three Western covenants, whether you believe them or not.
The Jewish covenant is basically based on the study of the Torah, of the Hebrew Bible.
The Jewish tradition emphasizes learning, which if we wanted to be a little negative, we could call head-tripping.
If we wanted to be more positive, we could talk about it being logical.
The Christian covenant, I believe I'm not insulting Christians to say, is based on passion and compassion and nurturing and nourishing and giving and working in the world.
The Christian community isn't that intense on studying, certainly not the Hebrew Bible.
And even the Christian Bible isn't always what the Christian community does.
Christians are known for their passion and their compassion.
Islam literally means to yield, to submit to Allah, to let go, to give up.
When you have a clear understanding of what you want and are interested in, the Jewish covenant, when you back that up with hard work in the world, what the Easterners would call Dharma, I think.
I may be using that wrong.
And then after you put in all this clear work and planning and all this hard work, you let go and yield to nature or to life or to God, depending on your beliefs, then things happen.
Look, if you're house hunting, you get an idea of what kind of house you want, you search around like crazy for months and months, and at the point at which you give up, bingo, your house shows up.
It's also the principle of which anything is created in the world.
Babies come into the world this way.
First, we know, we see, we intellectualize, we see our partner at a distance, and we think, we decide we want a child.
We fantasize about it.
Then we have to live with our partner, and that's work and passion and compassion.
We have to literally make love, and that making love process, which is called the petite mort, the little death, is in fact a giving up.
And then when the child is ultimately born, we have to release that child into the world and let go of it.
And so the creative process, even in that most elemental of human experiences, is the same.
It's based on, in this form of analysis, this isn't the only way you can analyze it, of course, these three conditions that all have to be present.
You have to know what you're doing.
You have to work hard at it, and you have to let go of it.
Now, I wrote up on the internet a little experiment you can do when you're driving along behind a guy that's driving too slowly and there's no way to pass.
And I described in detail how you think about what you want, how you put in the appropriate effort, how you let go.
Let me stop you and tell you what I think about in that situation.
Dual-mounted 50-caliber machine gun and a button convenient on my steering wheel, which I can press, totally peppering the car in front of me and destroying it totally.
This is not the kind of person who should reach out and try to have the experience you're talking about.
This is not related to you being violence or nonviolence.
This is a technique you can experiment with to demonstrate for yourself whether following these stages really does something or this is really the assessment.
Well, I'm basically saying that it's, you shouldn't believe me, that the test of these spiritual teachings is not whether granddaddy told daddy told you.
Well, what you can do, and you can adapt this to your own circumstances, is the first thing you do is you form in your mind clearly, without just being random and aggressive, that you really want to pass this guy.
You notice that you are going slow and you form a thought that, you know, it would be really nice if we get past this guy, and you look around for alternatives, and you obviously find it can't pass, or there's a cop that's a cop you're following, you know.
You can't pull out the Tommy gun, right?
Or you shouldn't.
Anyway, so you first do the mental work.
Then you basically do the physical work.
You follow this person.
You don't try to blow them away.
You don't try to cut around them.
You actually put the effort in to drive safely behind them.
And while you're doing this, and while you're forming the thought in your mind that you would like to pass, you know how you position your mind?
It's like when you're trying to get through a crowded hallway and you'll tap someone on the shoulder and they'll just wield a little enough for you to get squeezed by.
And then while you're doing this, you allow yourself to be distracted, to give up on it, to say, okay, you know what?
I'd really like to pass this guy.
But in fact, like Castaneda recommends, you turn it into a controlled folly.
I'm willing to follow this guy till hell freeze is over or until I get where we're going, whichever comes first, whether or not I can pass him.
And I'm just going to give up on my request and let go of it.
Sometimes we have to turn on the radio and get lost in what the person is saying.
Maybe they're listening to us and doing it right now.
And then at the moment your ego has dropped, the moment you've given up, let go, forgotten, you will notice, if this works for you, that something will come up and the obstacle will disappear.
Either Farmer Brown will pull over, or the road will widen, it'll be a passing zone, or something will happen that enables you to safely get past the obstacle.
It happens at the very moment you really let go of your trying to do this anyway.
You've dropped your ego, and you'll know when it's going to work because you'll realize when you're faking it and you only think you dropped your ego and you still want to get past the goddamn it.
And you'll also know, and you'll notice when, in fact, you actually let go.
And look, you can't power trip this.
You can't brag about it.
You want to keep your ego out of it.
You don't want to tell the guy next to you in the car what you're going to do because that's power tripping and that's ego building and that it prevents you from dropping your will and your expectation.
But if you do this in a gentle and humble way, if you pay attention, if you do it beyond the point at which you have any expectation of it's working.
And that's one reason, one way people, you know, if you start noticing how the world is more interconnected, it's scary because you notice you have more responsibility than you'd like to have.
You told me you observed when you brought this stone that was excavated in the pyramid near your fluorescent watch face, it glowed more than it would normally have glowed.
But other than that, my first hypothesis is it's probably mildly radioactive, and that's probably not terribly extraordinary.
Other than it may be deliberate, there is a reason why you would want to make a structure like the pyramid warm.
It may even be one of the reasons you would pick Cairo as a location, because it's warm there.
If you were actually, if the pyramid were actually, and I'm saying if here, if the pyramid were actually a device, then we could use certain basic scientific principles to figure out what kind of device it is.
We know devices, when you're making something useful and meaningful, the materials we choose and how we fashion them and the conditions in which we use them are important.
You don't make an automobile block out of a soft material that melts at the temperature that gasoline burns.
And you don't hone the outside of the carburetor, even if you're a car nut, you merely polish it because that would be a gratuitous behavior.
You need to hone the cylinders to get them that smooth.
But to make it look pretty, you don't need to hone the outside of the carburetor.
So that in fact, what you do and the precision with which you do it, the conditions under which you use it are very important.
So if we want to understand the pyramid, we shouldn't just speculate wildly.
We should set out a set of hypotheses, and then we should check them off and see what they lead us to.
Well, the most important, most impressive thing about the pyramid is its size.
So the first question to ask is, is there a reason, other than the purported vanity of the Pharaoh, that it would need to be that size?
And we should put that on the table.
The second most obvious thing about the pyramid, and this is the most obvious thing that no one seems to have noticed, is its material.
Most of the pyramid, now the chambers and passages are lined with granite, but the bulk of the pyramid, well over 95% of it, maybe over 99% of the pyramid, is limestone.
And if we examine limestone carefully, we discover something truly astonishing, which no one seems to have paid any attention to.
You know, one of the things that's most important in science is resonance, is when things are like other things and therefore can partake of them and interact with them.
The outer casing stones were much purer, but predominantly calcium carbonate.
Calcium carbonate is a very interesting material.
It's the most common mineral on the face of the earth after the silicates, after the granite materials.
All of the calcium carbonate on the surface of the planet, I believe this is true, maybe our listeners will correct me, is the result of the dissolving and recrystallizing of invertebrate skeletons.
This is bone that's been dissolved or crushed and compacted and crystallized.
And so it's the ash of life.
The pyramid on calcium carbonate structure sits on a limestone outcropping at Giza.
I'm Mark Bell, the guy who's usually on in the morning, so it's hard to...
So it was as if the hide had been removed, hide deep down to the surface of the muscle, and at the researching the companion volume to Forbidden Archaeology, entitled The Descent of Man Revisited.
It is a startling new explanation of 2.8 billion years old.