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May 4, 1997 - Art Bell

01:28:53

Dreamland with Art Bell - The Tampa Triangle - Capt. Bill Miller

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	...of last year.
	It's Art's interview with Captain Bill Miller on the mysterious Tampa Triangle.
	Art is still out with the flu, but should be back for Dreamland live next week.
	And now, classic Dreamland on this, the absolute best of Art Bell.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Good evening.
	Dreamland underway, where we do and talk about very strange things, and tonight is going to definitely be no exception.
	First thing we're going to do is talk with a man named Robert Bodell, and this is something we kind of plucked from nowhere.
	Robert, where are you located?
	I'm in Ruskin, Florida.
	Okay.
	How far is that from Tampa?
	It's about maybe 30 minutes south.
	I'm on the Very into Tampa Bay.
	Oh, okay, so you're near Tampa.
	Yeah.
	And you sent me a fax, and I just thought the audience ought to hear from you what happened.
	You're a sailor?
	You sail?
	Yeah, I do a lot of sailboat deliveries.
	Okay, and so you were apparently delivering a boat from Tampa to Long Island, is that correct?
	Yes, that's correct.
	All right, so you were by yourself?
	Yeah, most of my deliveries are single-handed.
	All right.
	Tell everybody what happened to you.
	Well, of course, I went around the southern tip of Florida and up the east coast to Long Island, which takes me right through the Bermuda Triangle.
	I've been there a lot of times and seen some strange stuff, but, you know, I just You know, there's not any big deal.
	By the way, you mentioned QSL Card.
	That's amateur radio talk.
	Are you a ham?
	No, no.
	I listen to Shortwave a lot when I'm on the boat.
	So you're a Shortwave listener, okay.
	Then I understand why you made reference.
	Alright, so what happened?
	You say you've been through the Bermuda Triangle many times.
	Weird things have occurred?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Compass cards start to spin and strange hazes.
	Those things really happened?
	Yeah, I guess.
	They did to me.
	They did to you.
	All right, but that is not what this is all about.
	I mean, you said in your fax or your email, that's almost ho-hum.
	I mean, that things go wrong in the triangle.
	Yeah.
	So what did happen?
	When I got to New York, My logbook was off three days.
	I'd lost three days in it.
	Are you sure that you did not simply start in the wrong place in your logbook?
	No.
	Well, the first thing I did was to call back here to Florida to my mother and check with her on the day that I left, and that jibed.
	Do you have any idea, by your logbook or by any other method of measurement, Where you lost the three days?
	I have no idea because amongst other things in my logbook I keep track of shortwave radio programs, you know, in case I decide to send off for a QSL card.
	Right.
	And the book includes the date, the time, which I keep by WWV, National Bureau of Standards.
	Right.
	The program content.
	People's names, names of songs, the times all the stuff happens.
	And when I couldn't find any mistakes in my logbook, I sent off for the QSL card and they all came back.
	So you kept a very meticulous entry.
	So what happened in your logbook then?
	There was simply a final entry and then it was three days from that date?
	Uh, my final entry was, uh, coming to the dock in Long Island.
	Wow.
	Uh, do you have, was, was there anything at all that you can recall that occurred before this or during the trip that was particularly unusual?
	I mean, had, for example, you went through the Bermuda Triangle.
	Did you get the normal compass spinning business or haze or anything like that on that trip?
	Uh, well, there was, there was, uh, One stretch there for about a three or four hours that I just, I just felt strange.
	You just felt strange?
	Yeah.
	Um, in all the time, how long ago did that occur now?
	Uh, this has been probably, oh, I'd say about 10, 12 years ago.
	10 or 12 years ago.
	And in all the time since then, Nothing has occurred to you further to explain how you lost three days?
	No.
	It's a total mystery.
	A total mystery.
	Well, Bob, I want to thank you because it kind of leads into where we're going.
	Mysterious things seem to happen down around the Tampa area and on up into the Bermuda Triangle.
	And I guess you just you have nothing to offer in terms of what you think it might be?
	Uh, no, not at all.
	In fact, it was...
	I had heard about the Bermuda Triangle and all that, sailing through it.
	You know, some of the strange stuff started happening, you know, in the beginnings.
	I started looking into it, and I've never found any explanation for anything.
	Hmm.
	Well, I really, really, really appreciate it, Bob, and I know that you took a little time off work to be able to tell us this, and I appreciate your coming on the program.
	Okay, well, I appreciate your having me.
	It's been a pleasure.
	Take care, Bob.
	You know, that's just a regular guy, folks.
	He sent me some email, and he maintained an absolutely meticulous log on a trip from Tampa up to New York in three days went away three days now this is not the only kind of thing that goes on there in a moment you'll hear a lot more about the Tampa area because coming up Captain Bill Miller he's a United States Coast Guard licensed captain
	Has authored a book called, The Tampa Triangle.
	And that's where we're going next.
	Are you overweight?
	Would you like to lose?
	Called, The Tampa Triangle.
	And from the St.
	Petersburg Times, I'm going to read a little bit of an article entitled, Tales of the Unexplainable.
	From Chupacabras to hitchhiking ghosts, it seems the Tampa Bay area is one weird little place.
	Not so little, actually.
	And it begins, imagine Rod Serling is standing before you.
	His hands clasped in front of him, his eyebrow cocked, he speaks.
	Consider, if you will, A series of extremely bizarre events taken individually.
	They're noteworthy, but not especially alarming.
	A woman bursts into flames while sitting in her living room.
	Fishing boats disappear without a trace from the Gulf of Mexico.
	A young blonde woman is repeatedly seen to be hitchhiking on the Sunshine Highway, make that Skyway Bridge, but she too keeps disappearing.
	A Nazi submarine sinks in the Gulf of Mexico during World War II, and more than 50 years later, people still refuse to even talk about it.
	And then, of course, the chupacabra sightings.
	The ghost sightings at the Don Cesar Resort and Haslam's Bookstore.
	And the people who swear they've had a close encounter with old Hitler.
	A hammerhead shark the size Of, get this, a Ford Explorer that originally, uh, uh, patrols the bay.
	These events did not occur in various cities across the country.
	No, they all occurred in the same place.
	Tampa Bay, Florida.
	And from Tampa Bay.
	Well, actually, not from Tampa Bay at the moment.
	I think he's probably in New York.
	Here is Captain Bill Miller.
	Captain?
	Good evening, New York.
	Good evening, Dreamland listeners.
	Yes, I'm calling from Staten Island, New York.
	I'm up here working on a dredge survey job on a boat in the harbor.
	All right.
	Well, how long have you been a seafaring man?
	Most of my adult life.
	And I've spent the last 15 years or so as a captain.
	All right.
	Before we get into what you've done, you heard the nice gentleman I had on a moment ago.
	That's right.
	Bob Bodell.
	Now, he was just a, he's just a, you could tell when you listen to him, just an average guy.
	But here's somebody who lost, lost three days on a trip from Tampa to New York.
	Have you ever heard of such a thing?
	Yes, and Bob is an excellent example of a professional boat captain.
	He keeps meticulous log entries.
	He's paying attention to what's going on.
	He's not easily slapped.
	And yet, here are the man's... And he's made this trip several times.
	All of a sudden, he's missing three days.
	And he's a good example of what is known as the missing time phenomena.
	And I think, frequently, that's been attributed to UFO abductees.
	So perhaps Bob has been a victim of abduction.
	I don't know.
	Perhaps.
	But also...
	We hear about this mist and the compass business in the Bermuda Triangle.
	Yes.
	In fact, I've seen the green mist off of Key Biscayne.
	Green mist?
	It was a green cloud.
	I can't explain what exactly it was.
	I was out there for several months.
	I was doing a survey of the Gulf Stream and every day we'd go out and throw a buoy overboard and track it.
	We were in the same area twice a day for months.
	And one day, there was a green fog just off of Key Biscayne.
	And of course, right away, we turned on all our electronics, our radar, and everything we had.
	And I sure fired up the engines quick, because I didn't want to get caught in it.
	And then it was there, and it was gone, just suddenly.
	And I had a civil engineer with me aboard the boat.
	He's a real skeptical guy.
	And I said, well, how do you explain that one?
	And he didn't have an explanation for that one.
	Alright, what about all your electronics?
	Did anything tell you that something was going crackers?
	I mean, what about the compass?
	Any other magnetic or heading equipment that would tell you something weird is going on?
	We lost our GPS, and we lost our radios.
	There was a lot of static on the radios.
	I had the radar up and running, but it didn't show anything.
	The radar showed nothing.
	You lost radios and you lost GPS.
	Right.
	Now GPS is a constellation of satellites.
	Right.
	That orbit the Earth.
	So you lost low frequency radio and you lost the spectrum all the way up through satellite.
	Yes.
	And it came back shortly after the cloud disappeared.
	So I don't know.
	It was like a fog.
	Like a low fog.
	But it wasn't a fog.
	Because it was a beautiful morning.
	And it was there, and then it was gone.
	So it was an interesting phenomenon to see.
	Well, fog I've seen.
	Green fog, I've never seen.
	Right.
	And don't particularly care to see, as a matter of fact.
	Right, and I see fog all the time.
	I know the difference.
	Uh-huh.
	All right.
	Well, we've moved a little bit away from what we really wanted to talk about, and that is Tampa.
	All we know about the Bermuda Triangle What is the Tampa Triangle?
	And then further, what... Your book is actually called Tampa Triangle Dead Zone.
	That's pretty ominous.
	What do you mean, Dead Zone?
	Okay.
	Well, Tampa Triangle is the... describes the atmosphere of paranormal activity in the Tampa Bay area.
	And the Dead Zone is an actual stretch of shipping channel in the Tampa Bay shipping... The Tampa Bay shipping channel is 48 miles long.
	And yet one small stretch of channel, four miles long, There's been over three major maritime disasters with a loss of over 58 lives.
	And when you, when you consider, a lot of people say, well, you know, gosh, there's shipwrecks all the time.
	Well, I'm up here in New York Harbor.
	There's tons of bridges.
	There's all kinds of ships coming and going like crazy.
	And yet they don't have anything like the shipwrecks we've had in this short little benign stretch of shipping channel in Southern, lazy Southern Tampa Bay, Florida.
	Apparently not so benign.
	No, in fact, It's a relatively straight stretch of channel, and yet, in 1980, in January of 1980, a Coast Guard vessel was outbound.
	It was a buoy tender, the Blackthorn, and it had a head-on collision with an inbound oil tanker.
	This was at 8 o'clock at night.
	It's almost unfathomable that a Coast Guard cutter would have a collision with anything, let alone a huge oil tanker.
	Well, don't both ships have lights and radar and all that kind of stuff?
	Right, exactly.
	So how could that How could that occur?
	You would imagine that at least one of the ships would see the lights of the other, or would detect the other with radar.
	I mean, ships are not small things.
	Yes, exactly.
	They're like huge city blocks moving down a shipping channel.
	That's right.
	Exactly.
	And yet, they almost collided head-on.
	In fact, the tanker's anchor dropped on the side of the buoy tender, and after all the anchor chain ran out, the anchor line came tight, and it caused the buoy tender It capsized.
	23 Coast Guardsmen died in that disaster.
	The largest peacetime Coast Guard disaster in the nation's history.
	There must have been an official investigation.
	Well, there was a lot of finger-pointing that went on, of course.
	Of course.
	But eventually, everyone pretty much walked away without any blame, or too much blame.
	You know, they said the Coast Guard guys weren't really paying attention, and they pretty much exonerated the guy on the tanker.
	So they really had to find an official way to sort of spread the blame around and not clobber anybody.
	But the truth was they simply could not explain it.
	Right.
	And then three months later, an inbound Light freighter, an inbound light freighter is coming up the bay and it runs into the Sunshine Skyway Bridge and knocks it down.
	What?
	35 people died.
	What?
	Yep, the freighter was inbound, all of a sudden, and all this activity happens right around the Sunshine Skyway Bridge.
	What were the weather conditions like at the time?
	A freak storm blew up just before the ship reached the bridge.
	It was less than a mile away from the bridge when a horrific rainstorm blew up.
	High winds, gale force winds, and fierce rain.
	It was sudden.
	It was quick.
	The pilot didn't have a chance to stop the ship.
	He continued on course.
	He'd done it over 800 times.
	He'd made over 800 passages through the bridge.
	He felt confident he could make it.
	He saw the bridge on his radar.
	Everything looked good.
	And yet, somehow, he got 800 feet off course and knocked the bridge down.
	35 people died as a result.
	There was many cars that went over the broken bridge and even a Greyhound bus.
	The course recorder on the ship, the ship had a course recorder, very similar to a black box on an airplane.
	Sure.
	The course recorder showed the ship dead on in the center of the shipping channel, passing under the bridge.
	Good Lord.
	Well, again, there had to have been, as there is with every maritime disaster, there had to have been an investigation.
	They exonerated the pilot of the ship.
	They said he acted with due care under the circumstances.
	So he was exonerated.
	An interesting sidebar on that shipping disaster story is the ghost of the Greyhound bus.
	A Greyhound bus went over that bridge that morning.
	Yes.
	And 25 passengers aboard died along with the bus driver.
	And many people have... What?
	The original bridge has been knocked down and there's now fishing piers there and they built a nice big new bridge.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	You mean they died because they plunged into the water?
	Yes.
	The Greyhound bus Plunged over the abyss where the center span of the bridge was knocked down.
	And the bus plunged 150 feet to the water.
	And all aboard were killed.
	But people have seen the ghost of the Greyhound bus.
	Fishermen have been fishing out on the Skyway Bridge out there.
	Early in the morning.
	It's foggy.
	They hear the high-pitched sound of rubber tires, big truck tires on the pavement.
	And they turn to look.
	And they see the bus coming.
	It's a Greyhound bus.
	And as it approaches closer, they can see the driver, and his hands are gripping the wheel, and he's looking straight ahead, and he looks scared.
	And then as the bus goes past, they see all the passengers in the bus, and they're sitting in their seats, and they're all staring straight ahead, except for the last window.
	The last window on the side of the bus, there's a woman looking out, and she's smiling, and she's waving her hand mechanically.
	And then the bus is gone.
	You know, you can't imagine how that freaks me out.
	It launches me into a discussion about what a ghost is.
	I mean, we all imagine we have a soul, and that when we die, it moves somewhere else, hopefully in an up direction.
	But I hear stories like this, and it sounds like A place of the damned, you know, having to relive some horrible, horrible end again and again and again.
	We have a local psychic named Caroline Hart.
	She's a wonderful woman and she's worked with several of the families of passengers who were aboard the bus that morning and she says a quote from her is that Caroline Hart says, in regards to the visuals that the fishermen are getting about the busload of people looking straight ahead, it may be the collective consciousness of those spirits that are still trapped in the energy field of the bus.
	It creates a visual scene based upon the awareness of impending disaster, which is held on to by the spirits of those that went into the water.
	But it doesn't answer the question.
	About whether these, whether the immortal souls of these poor people are really trapped doing this again and again or whether it's some kind of weird echo left from a tragedy.
	It's a question I've been trying to answer about ghosts and poltergeists and those sorts of apparitions which seem damned to go through the same thing again and again and again.
	And I can only hope that it is not really the soul of these people but some sort of I don't know.
	I wish I did know.
	Some sort of echo.
	Do you have a theory?
	Either way.
	It's a good question.
	Yeah, it's an important question.
	Particularly if you're the family of one of those people.
	Or, I suppose, one of those people.
	All right.
	Captain Miller, stand by.
	We'll be back to you.
	Welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Again, You know, let's stick on the subject of ghosts for a few moments, because this has been driving me absolutely crazy.
	It's, frankly, one of the reasons that I do this program.
	In other words, we look into life after death in lots of different ways.
	And one of them, obviously, has got to be ghosts.
	If you can prove there are ghosts, then I think that you prove that there is an existence beyond the physical.
	So it's very, very, very important.
	And there are other examples down within the Tampa Triangle of ghost activity, aren't there?
	Yes, sir.
	In fact, right on the Sunshine Skyway Bridge, the same place where the ghost of the Greyhound Bus is frequently seen, is the ghost of the Blonde Hitchhiker.
	Now, in the folklore of ghost literature, there's many instances of hitchhikers that are ghosts.
	But we have one on the Sunshine Skyway Bridge that is seen by so many people that it's become regular for cars with out-of-state plates to pull up to the toll plazas on either side of the bridge and report this ghost.
	And what they describe is this.
	They say as they're driving along the road, usually these are senior citizens or older people or professional people,
	people who would normally not stop for a hitchhiker and yet they see this young woman standing by the side of
	the road and she looks like she's disheveled or maybe she's just had a fight with her boyfriend or
	something.
	Right.
	Perhaps they're reminded of their own daughter.
	So they break with their normal rule of not picking up.
	Hitchhikers may stop and they pick this young woman up.
	Right.
	And she gets into the back seat of the car.
	Now they say that she appears to be dressed in 70s fashion.
	She has a white peasant blouse and I think a jean skirt and long blonde hair which appears to be disheveled and she climbs into the back seat of the car and they continue forward and they have conversation with this woman as they across the bridge as they're going up the incline to the
	top of the bridge and then as they get to the apex of the bridge the top of the bridge they they hear
	no noise from the back seat the woman's not talking and when they turn around to look they don't
	see her and they think well gosh perhaps she's passed out or something maybe she's falling down onto
	the floor so they they really look over the back seat and that's when they see she's gone gone not
	there she's disappeared so then they stop at the toll plaza at which is on either side of the bridge
	and they they tell what happened to them and and the toll plaza people have had so many people stop
	and and tell them about this that they're pretty blase about and they say yes yes we'll tell
	the highway patrol and and go on and about their business in fact one of the toll plaza the lady
	that is the manager of the north toll plaza on the sunshine skyway bridge has actually seen the
	ghost herself and she's a pretty thoughtful witness
	Um, what history is there of this young lady?
	I mean, do we know that she was killed at that location or that a blonde was killed or anything at all?
	One psychic has said that they feel that it's a woman who rode her moped to the top of the bridge and jumped.
	Yeah, there we go.
	Let me tell you one.
	You're supposed to be here telling ghost stories, but let me tell you one that I've had verified by literally hundreds of people, and this one gives me the heebie-jeebies.
	The story comes from San Antonio, and I can't recall the name of the road, although I knew it.
	It involves a railroad crossing.
	I wonder if you know the story.
	A school bus full of children.
	Got stuck on a, uh, between the, um, uh, you know, the, the, the railroad bridge, the railroad tracks.
	It got stuck right on the tracks and in between the things that come down.
	Or there were none there.
	And I'm, I'm trying to recall this exactly right.
	A train hit that bus.
	It killed, I forget how many children, uh, I believe all of the children in the bus or the majority of them.
	And, um, every, um, Every night of the week you can go to that location and you can stall a car on the tracks.
	And I mean so that the engine will not start.
	You can stall it even though a train is not coming.
	And you can get in your car and people have taken, to be sure of this, they have taken talcum powder and spread it across the back of their car And guess what?
	You get into your car and something pushes your car out from sitting on top of the tracks as if it doesn't matter whether your brake is on or whatever.
	And this is a true story.
	And inevitably you go back to the back of the car and you look and there are small handprints on the back of the car.
	My, that's an amazing story.
	It's a worrisome story, along with what you've told.
	In other words, those children, or the spirits of those children, appear to be there, pulling people out of danger, so the same thing, obviously, cannot occur to them.
	And it goes back again to what the heck is a ghost?
	If it's an immortal soul, caught in some sort of damnation, Then we've got a lot to think about, don't we?
	If it's just some sort of weak echo of what happened and doesn't really mean the soul of that person is doing it again and again, then perhaps it's something else.
	It's one of the mysteries I would like to solve.
	Anyway, back to the Tampa Triangle.
	Let me tell you real quick about the ghost of the romantic trout fisherman.
	This is a ghost, the spirit of a man who's only seen by women.
	And there's a park right out by the Sunshine Skyway Bridge.
	It's a very popular county park.
	Yes.
	And women report going out to the park and they're out there fishing and they report seeing a very handsome man in his late 30s or early 40s and he's wading along the flats casting his lure out, trout fishing.
	And he gets closer to him and he's kind of smiling at him and kind of flirting and winking.
	Well, he doesn't speak.
	And when he seems to get closer, you know, they kind of move down the shore, trying to get a little closer, hoping maybe he'll speak to them and they can get something going.
	And as they get closer, he disappears.
	And the women have gone to the bait shop and talked about this and mentioned it to the bait shop clerk.
	And the bait shop clerk says, oh, you saw Dalton, the ghost of the romantic trout fisherman.
	And he's only seen by women.
	Only by women.
	Alright, we did a show once, an entire program, on spontaneous human combustion.
	Right.
	It is a very strange topic, Captain.
	As a matter of fact, I've got some photographs of one doctor, for example, who burned up, they're very gory up on my website, and all that you see is this spot.
	He was in the bathroom.
	Doing his thing at the moment that he burned and all that's left is his leg and the charred remains of a very incredibly intense fire that occurred locally.
	Didn't even set the house on fire, charred it.
	Uh, in fact, burned right through the floor, but didn't set any of the rest of the house on fire, but burned him up completely with the exception of one leg.
	Pretty horrible, but it's a real photograph.
	And, um, I understand there was a combustion incident in the Tampa Triangle, wasn't there?
	That's right.
	Perhaps one of the most studied scientifically.
	instances of spontaneous human combustion did occur right here in St. Petersburg, Florida,
	in the heart of the Tampa Triangle. It was the case of Mary Harder Reeser. And, you know,
	what you're saying is right. It just takes incredible hate to consume a body. Funeral
	directors say that to cremate a human body, it takes temperatures of at least 2,500 to 3,000
	degrees Fahrenheit for several hours to reduce the body.
	And even then, they have to put the bones and the leftover parts into like a big dryer that's got
	steel balls and it polarizes everything.
	It's called a cremulator. So to get a human being to dust.
	requires what you just described.
	Yeah, incredible, incredible heat.
	And yet, in these cases of spontaneous human combustion, the thing that's most baffling is that very flammable objects right next to the person are maybe covered with a little soot or grimy with smoke, but they don't go up in flames.
	And we're talking about curtains and drapery and You know, simple things that would go up in a heartbeat.
	I know, so the implication is it really is internal, or it begins internally in the human body.
	What about this particular case?
	What happened?
	Well, Mary Reser was a widow.
	Her husband was a doctor.
	And when he died, she moved down to St.
	Petersburg, Florida to live near her son, who was also a doctor.
	Sure.
	And she was sitting... In fact, this happened right around the corner from my sister's house.
	This happened in the early 50s.
	She was sitting in her easy chair and just went up in smoke.
	And the amazing thing was that there wasn't a lot of smoke that came out of the apartment or anything.
	None of the furnishings were damaged, and all that was left was her foot.
	Everything else was... What?
	What?
	Yeah, all that was left was her... When the fireman came in, her landlord did smell smoke in the morning, finally.
	But it wasn't like it was... In fact, the landlord thought that the insulation on the irrigation pump had overheated.
	Or, you know, had burned through.
	So it wasn't a major smoke that she was smelling.
	And so when they finally opened the door to Mary Harder Reese's apartment and went inside, they found this burned...
	Easy chair and a foot and nothing more.
	Sounds exactly like what I described to you.
	Yes, it does.
	Um, firemen say, firemen say, you know, that if somebody, they go to a lot of places where people have died from smoking in bed or whatever.
	Sure.
	And they talk about the, this one fire captain said, well, you know, it's kind of like meat that's been burned on the barbecue grill or something.
	It's burned, but it's not consumed totally to ash.
	It's just, Actually, actually, I think it's impossible.
	In other words, without there being something else at work here, I think it's just absolutely impossible.
	What percentage of the human body is water?
	Right.
	Most of us, we're made up of water.
	Right.
	We're not flammable, particularly.
	So, it's just flat impossible.
	Do you have any ideas?
	I mean, I thought I would ask you what you think could do that.
	Well, the FBI came in and examined the case and their finding was that it was unusual and improbable.
	They determined that no known chemical agents were involved.
	There wasn't smoking.
	Unusual and improbable.
	Is that the actual?
	That's the actual finding from the FBI.
	Which is kind of like double talk for we don't know what's going on.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And that also occurred in that same triangle area.
	Yes, sir.
	Now, it's incumbent on me as we discuss these stories to ask you, how do you document That things are occurring in a specific area at a more frequent rate, internal human combustion, ships plowing into bridges or into each other, more so than down in the Florida Keys or up there in New York where you are right now.
	How do you come to the conclusion that you've got a special area?
	Well, that's a real good point.
	A lot of people say, well, geez, it's just a shipwreck or something like that.
	And then, of course, you look at New York Harbor, where there's tons of shipping,
	and they have relatively few shipwrecks or only fender benders.
	And yet, in this one small stretch of channel, we've had three major maritime disasters.
	And as I started looking at those three—in fact, that's how I started writing the book,
	or writing the story, was about how things happen in threes.
	Threes.
	And as I started researching it in the library, I started turning over all these other unusual maritime events that took place in the dead zone.
	And for years, people that I've worked with on the waterfront have called that the dead zone.
	And that's because their radars fail, or their electric steering goes out, or their hydraulic steering.
	They have all kinds of unusual malfunctions right in this relatively small stretch of channel.
	And this is after crossing oceans and everything.
	What I tried to do was document it, and I footnoted everything that I found with the source, of course, and everything.
	Okay, but it's not specific to the water, is it?
	In other words, it seems specific to the area, both land and water.
	Above the water, on the land, in the water.
	Yes, in fact, just this past Christmas, a week before Christmas, An apparition of the Virgin Mary appeared on a glass building in Clearwater, Florida.
	Really?
	It was a huge... You know what image of the Virgin Mary?
	I think that I... I may have heard about that.
	I think the Associated Press or somebody did a story on that.
	It was a big story.
	The image of the Virgin Mary appeared on this glass building, the glass face of the building.
	And nobody could explain it.
	And of course, the skeptics right away said, it's well water on the glass, except that this image was three or four stories high.
	And just by chance, they had a convention of glass scientists from Pittsburgh Plate Glass.
	And these are the top guys in the industry.
	So the local newspaper loaded all these scientists onto the bus and brought them over to the Virgin Mary.
	Naturally.
	You know, to see what they said.
	And they couldn't explain it.
	And these are the guys that, you know, are really into glass.
	And they could not explain how this was on there.
	Are there any photographs of this?
	Oh, yes.
	In fact, it's very big.
	It's a very big thing.
	It's in Clearwater, Florida.
	It's the image of the Virgin Mary.
	In fact, the owners of the building are kicking the tenants out and they're turning it into a shrine.
	Really?
	They've had over a million visitors since December.
	Well, Captain, I have a I have a kind of a theory about these things, and I don't know whether you want to hear it or not.
	It involves... I wrote a book called The Quickening, which, by the way, folks, please don't call.
	You cannot order it right now.
	It's not even available.
	It's all sold out.
	But the idea, Captain, is that things on this Earth, human behavior, social human behavior, the way we're treating each other, our economy, Our ecology, the environment, in other words, everything, the weather, you name it, everything is getting faster.
	Everything is speeding up at an exponential rate.
	And we're headed toward an event.
	And as we get closer to this event, things like apparitions, merian apparitions, and that sort of thing, are increasing.
	And they definitely are.
	And that's my theory about that.
	I believe we're being given a message of some kind.
	I'm not exactly sure what or what we're being told, but I suspect it has something to do with straightening out our act or else.
	You have any thoughts?
	I think you're right on target, Art.
	Well, I don't know that I want to be on target, I just think that it is going on.
	And it's particularly going on in the Tampa area.
	Would you spend time in that dead zone?
	Well, I sail through it quite frequently as part of my job.
	But as with most captains, I'm always real glad to get through it and get under the bridge.
	Captain Robert Trice, a good friend of mine, runs tugboats through there all the time, and he said when he passes through that bridge, he says the wheelhouse gets cold and clammy.
	He said he can almost feel the souls of the dead reaching up from the waters.
	He said it's a really eerie feeling.
	All right.
	Captain, hold tight.
	We'll get back to you in a moment.
	I almost feel the souls of the dead.
	Here we go again.
	And Captain, I've had several faxes already.
	One says, wasn't there a green fog at the Philadelphia experiment?
	Makes you wonder if it couldn't be somehow related from Sally in Washington State.
	And Sally is exactly right.
	There was a green fog reported when they did the Philadelphia experiment.
	Captain, had you heard that?
	Yes, great comment.
	Um, and one other that I want to read for you, Captain.
	You'll enjoy this.
	Maybe you even know about it.
	Aye, Art.
	I thought your guest, Captain Miller, should know about a very strange marine incident that occurred not far from where he's located on Staten Island.
	Friday, September 15th, 1995.
	Listen now, folks.
	The passengers aboard a Staten Island ferry boat were astonished to witness a huge object just to the left of their ferry as it was coursing to the south towards Staten Island.
	The object apparently simply rose out of the water between the ferry and Governor's Island.
	It paced the ferry for about eight to ten minutes and then simply disappeared from view.
	All the witnesses reported that the water was, quote, boiling, unquote, underneath the object.
	It was as tall as a six to eight story building.
	It was even seen by police on the shore.
	And the 911 facilities in New York City received multiple calls from other individuals who also saw it.
	Further, A videotape about the incident has been produced and aired in the New York area.
	I've got a copy of it.
	Very interesting.
	I've talked to many of the individuals who were aboard the ferry, who witnessed the object, and their stories are spine-chilling.
	Very sincere.
	Thought you might like to know that the captain is sitting very close to the site of that event.
	Have you ever heard of that, Captain?
	No, but that's an exciting story, and I was on the Staten Island Ferry today.
	That's really a great story.
	Governor's Island is, of course, the Coast Guard base here, too.
	Yes, indeed.
	But boy, that's a terrific story.
	That's right where I'm working.
	And that comes from the National UFO Reporting Center.
	It was just faxed to me, and I would love to get a copy of that videotape, Captain.
	I guess strange things occur at sea.
	Oh boy, I'll tell you.
	Oh, you talked about the Magellan GPS.
	Excellent, excellent unit.
	It's set the standard for excellence in the GPS navigation industry.
	They're wonderful units.
	I know it.
	And we can't keep them.
	Yep.
	We can't keep them.
	They sell out and then they're so sold out that about every six months we get a shipment and they go.
	Just top of the line.
	They're great.
	They're great units.
	Real quick, real quick.
	Remember we were talking about Mary Harder Reeser, this lady who was spontaneously human combusted?
	Yes.
	Well, her spirit came back.
	Her son, who was the doctor, reported that family members would encounter her ghost in their home, and they smelled the distinctive odor of her perfume, and it was particularly found powerful in the guest room, which was entirely furnished with her furniture from her home in Pennsylvania.
	The Reaser's dog, Wriggles, refused to enter the guest room where the mother's furniture was kept.
	Dr. Reaser said that after they sold the furniture, the spirit left with the furniture.
	And he said it wasn't the house that was haunted, it was Mother Reaser's furniture.
	Maybe she just loved it too much, Dr. Reaser said.
	And that's from a medical doctor, who has encountered his mother's ghost.
	Well, that's kind of fun.
	You know, how do you take all this in?
	I mean, how do you absorb it?
	When I absorb it, it puts me in a very strange state, as I think I've already described to you, because I'm so concerned about what might come after.
	How do you assimilate all this information?
	I mean, you hear about all these things, you write about all these things.
	What does it do to you?
	It's been really exciting for me because I kind of just stumbled onto it.
	I didn't start out to write about the paranormal.
	I started to write out about shipping disasters.
	And yet, the more I looked into it, the more unusual events popped, bubbled to the surface.
	All right.
	You know something also about the Chupacabra, don't you?
	Yes, that's right.
	In fact, There's been several sightings of the chupacabra in the Tampa Bay area.
	I'm sure all your listeners are familiar with the chupacabra story.
	It's very popular in the Hispanic community who've seen many sightings of it.
	A lot of people feel that the chupacabra, which is, I think it's been described as three to four feet tall, With spines like coming out of the back of its head.
	It's a blood sucking type animal.
	It's particularly tough on farm animals and livestock.
	There's been many sightings in Puerto Rico.
	A lot of people have suggested that the Chupacabra is perhaps a chemical weapons experiment by Castro or some other government that's gone bad.
	It wouldn't surprise me.
	I don't know.
	Are you able to document... What are you able to document in terms of not just sightings, but attacks on animals or even humans?
	Has there been any of that?
	Well, there's been some livestock mutilations right down where our buddy Bob, the captain, the boat captain lives, Bob Bunnell, in Ruskin.
	And Ruskin's a farming community.
	One of the things that I heard is that they think that perhaps it may have come up on the ship.
	Which come up from the Caribbean.
	Ah.
	May have gotten, you know, there's been many sightings in Miami, which is a heavy shipping port.
	And Tampa, of course, has some shipping coming in from the Caribbean also.
	There was a car, now I'm sure you probably saw the story, and it was either near Fort Lauderdale, I believe Fort Lauderdale, somewhere between there and Miami.
	And a car was attacked.
	Geez.
	And they actually found teeth marks on a bumper.
	Holy smokes!
	Yeah, I know.
	Holy smokes.
	Nobody wants to think about something like that.
	All right, listen.
	I would like to begin taking some calls, Captain.
	But if there's anything else you want to get in as we go, you just feel free to drop it in, all right?
	Okay, great.
	All right, let's see what we can do.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Captain Bob Miller.
	Hi.
	Hello, Art.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, thanks.
	This is Bruce from Sarasota, Florida.
	Oh, good, Bruce.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Thanks.
	That's quite all right.
	Hold while he turns off his radio.
	He's got some hum or something.
	Well, partner, I don't know what happened to you there.
	Sorry about that.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hello.
	Yeah.
	Hi there.
	This is Mike from Minneapolis.
	Hello, Mike.
	I have a theory about the spontaneous human combustion.
	And, uh, If you remember some discussions Art had with Mark Taylor Canfield?
	Yes.
	About the, um, thing called sonoluminescence?
	Uh, this is Art.
	You're talking to me.
	Oh, Art.
	Hi, Art.
	Um, if you remember your discussion with Mark Taylor Canfield about sonoluminescence?
	Yes.
	Um, where sound waves were propagated through a liquid, which caused, um, within a hundredth of a second to, uh, the liquid to heat within 10,000 degrees?
	If for some reason sound waves Could start a chain reaction in a human.
	It could superheat the blood, which could heat to that 10,000 degrees.
	That's interesting.
	I appreciate that call.
	I guess that's as good an explanation as any.
	But not good enough.
	In other words, I still, in my wildest dreams, cannot imagine what something made mainly of water can suddenly just burn to a cinder, leaving everything around it basically untouched.
	It's wild.
	Speaking of wild, wild card line, you're on the air with Captain Miller.
	Hello.
	Good evening, Mr. Bell.
	Good evening.
	Where are you?
	This is Robert from the San Joaquin Valley, California.
	Yes, sir.
	I've got two things, sir.
	Good evening.
	Uh, Mr. Miller.
	Good evening!
	Yes, sir.
	Captain Miller.
	Captain Miller.
	How do you do, sir?
	Good evening.
	Uh, I'm looking here, Tuesday this June the 16th, 1992, from Associated Press.
	This pertains to the, uh, submarine that you mentioned that disappeared.
	Yeah.
	It says here, 50 years ago, Nazi team invades Florida.
	It says that the Germans are welcome on the Florida beaches these days, but four who slipped ashore at the then-deserted northern Florida beach 50 years ago today came by submarine, not an airliner.
	In the early morning of June 16, 1942, four paddled a rubber raft ashore from U-boat 584.
	They struggled with four large waterproof cases containing enough explosives to level factories, blow up bridges, ...and canals and terrorize Americans in stores and train depots.
	They were part of a Nazi Operation Pistorius, which had begun in the United States before the war.
	The plan was for two teams to rendezvous in St.
	Louis, July the 4th, and begin a campaign of sabotage and terrorism that would be joined by later waves of German agents.
	The four who landed on Long Island were arrested in New York City.
	Two members of a Florida group were arrested in New York City, and the other two were picked up in Chicago.
	The arrest occurred between June the 20th and June the 27th.
	The eight were convicted by a secret military tribunal on August the 2nd, 1942.
	Six of them were executed August the 8th in an electric chair in Washington, D.C.
	The two others, who had cooperated with authorities, were imprisoned, then deported to Germany in 1948.
	The U-boat was never seen again.
	Wow.
	Alright, that'll put us straight into a story from Captain Miller.
	Captain, there was something, wasn't there, about a Nazi submarine?
	That's right, and I'm familiar with this story.
	That's absolutely right.
	German submarines, Nazi submarines, were very common in the Florida waters in the early part of the war.
	In fact, they picked off our shipping like sitting ducks, because at that time we didn't have the blackout regulations in effect, and the tankers would go past Miami or go up the coast, and the suns would just get up on the surface and knock them out of the water.
	So, sub-traffic in this area was very strong.
	I turned up, as I grew up in Tampa Bay, One reoccurring story which always interested me was the story of the sunken German U-boat that was supposed to be sunk off Tampa Bay and every few years it would kind of pop to the surface and we'd all talk about it when we were fishing and stuff but I never really got the details so when I started looking into this book that's one of the stories I researched and it's the story of the U-166 which is a 1XC class German submarine and its mission was to come over and lay mines in Tampa Bay
	To disrupt the shipbuilding effort.
	They had some shipbuilding factories up in Upper Tampa during the war.
	Would make sense.
	Right.
	It came to the surface, and this just happens to be, it was Halloween night in 1942, and it was late in the evening, and it had been submerged all day, running on batteries, and it came to the surface just before dark to charge its batteries.
	And it just so happened that a U.S.
	naval blimp was in the area and saw it surface.
	And of course, they radioed headquarters right away.
	And headquarters radioed out to a destroyer escort to attack the sub.
	Track it down and attack it.
	Of course.
	Several hours of depth charging followed.
	And the sub ran out of power and ended up on the floor of the Gulf of Mexico.
	It was forgotten until the late 1950s.
	When a fella named Jim Hall, who's one of the greatest hard hat divers in the United States, was out doing what he calls junkyard diving.
	And that means he had some relatives who were in the Navy and they had locations of wrecks.
	And he'd go out and search them for anything that might be of value.
	Right.
	Junkyard diver.
	So Jim Hall found the location of this German submarine.
	And he went out to dive on it.
	And what he did was he cut a hole in the bottom of it so that the atmosphere would stay inside the submarine.
	And then he climbed up through the bottom of the sub into the, into the sub.
	Makes sense.
	So there was still atmosphere in there.
	But he had to leave on his diving equipment because he didn't know how polluted the atmosphere was.
	Chemicals from the batteries and everything.
	Very ancient, uh, and probably very polluted with all kinds of things.
	Human remains, oh God, you can only imagine.
	Well listen, one of the first compartments he goes into, he opens the door, watertight door into the engine room.
	And as he shines his light around the engine room, he starts to see the corpses of the German sailors.
	But there's something odd about them.
	They're tanned.
	And he looks a little closer and he can't understand how these guys could be under the water for 25, 20 years.
	Wait, wait, wait, wait.
	First of all, A, you said there was an atmosphere in there.
	Second of all, there shouldn't have been anything but bones.
	Oh no!
	Much less tanned.
	Tanned?
	Yes, it's a watertight seat.
	Remember, they have all the watertight doors closed, and the engine room is separated from the other compartment.
	Yes.
	Standard operating procedure.
	He goes into the engine room, and he sees these bodies, and the skin appears to be tanned.
	And when he looks closer, he realizes they really are tanned.
	They've been tanned like leather by the petroleum fumes in the engine room.
	The oil.
	Oh.
	So they were tanned.
	So then he moved forward into the next compartment and finally into the control room.
	And yes, you're right.
	Those, those remains were just skeletonized.
	But he said it was a very eerie thing.
	Anyway, he went on to search through the submarine.
	There wasn't really anything worth taking or having.
	Yeah.
	Um, I'd have been out of there when I saw the tan sailors, uh, submariners.
	Creepy, creepy stuff.
	He's a tough guy and a nice guy too.
	Anyway, About this time, the government starts getting in touch with him.
	And they say, Jim, you've got to leave this submarine alone.
	And Jim, who's drove on many wrecks, says, what's the big deal?
	He says, there's sunk subs all around the coast of Florida, and there's several of them.
	And the government admits they're out there.
	What's the big deal about this one?
	And he was told, Jim, we don't care about the submarine.
	It's what's near it that we're afraid people will stumble over when they're looking for this sub.
	And because Jim Hall was making so much money working for the government and doing other stuff, he had to leave the sub alone.
	It's really quite an interesting story, and he wouldn't really say what he thinks is sunk out there near that sub or what is near that sub, so that's open to question.
	But there's been a huge cover-up, which I meticulously researched and documented in my book, of work were our local congressman congressman young's
	inquired with the navy department about that sub and the navy department came
	back and told him it wasn't out there that it was off louisiana so i to the congressman so maybe somebody should go look
	again Not me, not you.
	I'm not going out there!
	No, I wouldn't go out there either.
	But there's something out there that the government doesn't want us to know about.
	All right, Jim.
	Hold on.
	Captain Jim Miller is my guest.
	Wow!
	Some pretty neat stories, huh?
	Listen, folks.
	We'll tell you how to get Tampa Triangle dead zone when we come back from the break.
	In the meantime, uh, I just want to drop a quick one on you here.
	We have two cruises coming up.
	Cruises.
	And I live in Tampa, and I'd like to share a story with you and the captain.
	I delivered papers for the St.
	Petersburg Times for about eight months, um, starting last August.
	My paper route encompassed an area northeast of Tampa called Odessa that's sparsely populated in some areas and completely devoid of streetlights except for the occasional house light in the distance.
	One road in particular gave me the shivers at 4.30 in the morning, particularly when listening to your program.
	It's called Patterson Road.
	It's not only dark, but it winds with several 90 degree turns that can catch an unsuspecting driver by surprise.
	It's not very uncommon to find cars along the road twisted around trees at these dangerous turns.
	Well, When I began this route, a fellow delivery person who recently gave up the route asked me about a female jogger that she would see every night along Patterson Road.
	She told me that she almost hit her every time since she would just appear out of nowhere.
	I didn't think anything of it until my wife filled in for me about a month after I began in passing.
	She told me about a jogger that she almost hit while she was driving on Patterson Road the next night.
	I drove very slowly to try to find the jogger, to no avail.
	Again, I simply forgot about it, the jogger, until my wife subbed for me again and told me about the incident again.
	I thought hard about it.
	And I came to the conclusion that I was taking a different route and therefore I'd drive down Patterson about half an hour earlier than my wife would.
	I decided to take her route one night and arrive at Patterson Road at exactly the time she normally would.
	Well, that night I found the jogger appearing instantly as my wife had described, and I was shocked when I saw her, needless to say.
	After I passed her, I decided to turn around and go back to investigate further.
	I had my suspicions about this mysterious jogger, and guess what?
	As I headed back, the jogger disappeared just as she had appeared.
	Perhaps the captain has heard of this ghost, and if so, could he elaborate at all?
	That's from James in Tampa.
	Captain?
	Well, that gives me chills.
	I haven't heard about that particular ghost, but it's certainly a good story, an interesting story.
	And a spirit that's being seen by several people, too.
	And it's right down there in the middle of your triangle.
	The Tampa Triangle Dead Zone.
	Where do people get this book, Captain?
	Well, you can order through our 800 number.
	It's 1-800-929-7447.
	7447.
	1-800-929-7447.
	7447.
	1-800-929-7447.
	We've got a website, but it's not as good as yours, Art.
	Well, no, it's quite alright.
	What is your website?
	Our website is www.artquarter, one word, artquarter, A-R-T-Q-U-A-R-T-E-R dot com backslash Tampa Triangle, one word, Tampa Triangle.
	Wow.
	All right, what's on there?
	Well, we've got some excerpts from the book, a little bit of discussion from me.
	So there's some interesting things in there.
	There's also some of the artwork from the cover.
	We got a killer cover.
	Uh, and you can also order the book through the website.
	Alright, is that... But you are the king of websites.
	I looked in my web browser for the top websites and Art Bell is number one with a bullet.
	Thank you.
	Um, is that a backslash or a forward slash?
	I believe it's a backslash.
	I might be mistaken on that.
	Alright, so everybody be careful there.
	Try both www.artquarter.com I think it's backslash.
	It might be forward slash.
	I think it's backslash.
	I might be wrong.
	And then Tampa Triangle.
	Okay, well I'm sure with a browser you could probably go to Tampa, you know, just enter
	Tampa Triangle and I bet you'd get it.
	Hopefully.
	All right.
	Hopefully, maybe we could get linked up with you.
	Well, had I known earlier about your website, you would have been.
	Okay.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hi.
	Well, good evening, gentlemen.
	Good evening.
	Yes, Captain Miller, you talk about this fog off of Tampa Bay, correct?
	I actually witnessed it off of Key Biscayne.
	Oh, Key Biscayne, I'm sorry.
	Could this be attributed to, say, possibly air pollution and or a meteorological occurrence as well?
	Well, I understand what you're saying.
	I monitor the meteorological conditions very closely when I'm out there.
	It's a natural part of the job.
	And I'm very experienced with fog.
	Is there any magnetic interference or something like that too?
	I'm not sure about the magnetic.
	We had radio interference and we had a problem with our GPS.
	And also, may I ask?
	Yes, sir?
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Since you're an agent of the government, don't they frown upon your book?
	I mean, no offense, it seems to me... No, sir, I'm licensed by the United States Coast Guard.
	Just like you get a driver's license from your state.
	All right, that doesn't make him an agent of the government.
	Well, I thought being in the government...
	involved in the government per se that they would frown upon a book like this.
	In fact, a lot of my friends on the water have said, boy, we can't wait until your license
	goes up for renewal.
	You're going to have some fun.
	I see.
	Wait till the Coast Guard deals with you.
	Well, I'm looking forward to your book then.
	You know, he might be right.
	I mean, he really might be right.
	Somebody could take offense to this, and even though you're not an agent of the government,
	You certainly are licensed by the government.
	First time caller online, you're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hi.
	Hi, Captain Miller.
	I have a satellite question.
	I'm calling from Sonoma County in California.
	My name is Bruce.
	Good evening, Bruce.
	So how you doing?
	Terrific.
	Now, I got this, uh, there's a guy, PhD named David Allen Lewis.
	He wrote a book called UFO.
	Now, he started independent research.
	He's an archaeologist when Operation Blue Book started doing its research, the Air Force.
	But he relates one story in his book.
	And it talks about an unmanned orbiter that the Russians, the USSR, sent up.
	It orbited Mars.
	And he said on the Malta Peace Accords, between Gorbachev and President Bush, number two on the agenda was UFO discussions.
	And the Soviet Union was bringing to the table information that they had made contact on Mars.
	Their unmanned orbiter somehow was contacted by alien lifeforms.
	And after the message was transmitted, The whole system was shut down on their satellite and they lost communication with the satellite but they did receive the communication they were supposed to deliver.
	Have you ever heard anything so extraordinary?
	Well it doesn't surprise me and you know recently there was a there was talk about sending a mission up to explore one of the frozen oceans on one of the Uh, moons of Mars, I think it was, up there.
	And all of a sudden, that got squashed real quick.
	I mean, they shut that down.
	I thought it was a great idea.
	Actually, actually, it was Europa.
	Europa, right!
	That's right.
	Uh, moon of Jupiter.
	Jupiter.
	Alright, here's another one for you, Captain.
	Uh, you're just not gonna believe the quality of some of what we're getting in here.
	Uh, Dear Art and Captain Miller.
	My name is, and I'm going to eliminate it, and I'm a pilot for a major airline.
	Having been interested in aviation all my life, I have, over the years, compiled a nice aviation library.
	Most professional pilots, like myself, particularly enjoy reading the technical information, like model development, test pilot reports, and so forth.
	While reading The Spirit of St.
	Louis by Charles Lindbergh, I came across something rather interesting in The Log of the Spirit.
	After Lindbergh completed his historic Atlantic crossing, he and his airplane went on an extended tour of the U.S.
	and neighboring countries.
	The entire log of the Spirit of St.
	Louis is contained in the appendix of the book, and the entry for February 13th is as follows.
	February 13th, Havana to Lambert Field, St.
	Louis, Missouri, 15 hours, 35 minutes.
	Both compasses now functioned over the Florida Strait at night.
	The Earth inductor needle wobbled back and forth.
	The liquid compass card rotated without stopping.
	Could recognize no stars through heavy haze.
	Located position at daybreak over Bahama Islands nearly 300 miles off course.
	Liquid compass card kept rotating until the spirit of St.
	Louis reached the Florida coast.
	The spirit made two more flights and then was retired to museum for life.
	I feel this gives a certain amount of credibility to the triangle legends and I think it's interesting that none of the authors of the triangle books have ever, at least to my knowledge, mentioned this in any of their books.
	Thought you might find it interesting He gives the name of his airline and his name, which I will withhold.
	Captain?
	Sharp guy.
	He's a good researcher, too.
	And it's fun when you discover things like this.
	And certainly, he's on the ball with that.
	Boy, I had never, never heard that.
	And that is in the log of the Spirit of St.
	Louis.
	Anyway, another item.
	Very quick facts.
	Captain, maybe these people who spontaneously combust Have actually died and their souls have gone to hell.
	The intense heat of hell, if you believe in it, would explain how a human body, which is 70% water, could be consumed so quickly.
	And I think I'll just leave that one alone, and we'll go to the wild card line.
	You're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	How are you doing?
	This is Tony in Las Vegas.
	Hello, Tony.
	Hi, Bill.
	Uh, I was curious if you, uh, had, uh, ever heard about two UFOs that were... I'll try to speak away from my phone a little more.
	Is that better?
	Yeah, you're doing fine, sir.
	Okay.
	Um, uh, that were spotted over Santa Barbara in, like, 19... Uh, I believe it was 48 or something like that.
	Would that be Santa Barbara in Florida?
	Uh, no, California.
	No, he wouldn't know about that, uh, my friend.
	Uh, he's here talking about Florida.
	Uh, hello?
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Oh, yeah, my phone's cutting out.
	Oh, is it?
	Well, we're talking about Florida, and you're talking about... Okay, I do have a question about Florida.
	If you think that there's a time rift associated with the cloud that the Gulf Breeze sightings were sighted from.
	Uh-huh.
	Okay, that's worth asking about.
	You, of course, know about Gulf Breeze.
	Oh, sure.
	And what an exciting place that is, too, right now.
	Where is Gulf Breeze, with reference to Tampa, or is it just out of Florida that's weird?
	Well, when you look at Florida, Gulf Breeze is up in the curve as you head towards Louisiana and Mississippi.
	It's up in that curved part of Florida, up in the panhandle on the top up there.
	Tampa, of course, is It's further south and it's on the west coast.
	It's on the Gulf of Mexico side.
	It's about halfway down the state.
	It's directly across from Cape Canaveral, Cape Kennedy, and the Bermuda Triangle.
	Maybe there's something just generally weird about Florida and the water adjacent to it.
	Who knows?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	I'm Dave from St.
	Petersburg, Florida.
	Yes, you've got us all.
	Hi, Dave.
	I used to be a bridge tender.
	Back to the time when the boat that he was talking about that crashed into the... Oh, you know about that?
	Uh, to a certain extent, yes.
	I was, um... To give you real quick, there's a bayway bridge, which is like right across the channel, basically, from that bridge, and I could see the skyway from where I was at.
	And that particular morning, he was right.
	It was a really strange how a storm came up rather quickly.
	But one of the interesting things that happened, there was a car with a couple of golfers that were heading toward Yes.
	And they come to a screeching halt up on top of the bridge just inches from the edge.
	And when they showed the pictures in the newspaper, here is this automobile.
	I mean, it's metal grating up there at the top is where the old bridge used to be.
	And these two golfers, you know, they climbed out and the only thing he did, he went back to get his golf clubs.
	He had them locked up in the trunk.
	And it was just kind of really amazing how just inches from himself and his partner going off the edge.
	And I used to run a story in the Times that this man, until he passed away I believe a few years ago, every year commemorating the accent, he would go up there and leave flowers.
	So, basically, you verify the story the captain told about the collusion and the bridge and all the rest of it.
	Yeah, I have friends.
	I used to work for the Department of Transportation and the friends that I worked for actually went out there and helped pull in many people who had passed on and some of the people that were actually survivors that fell off the bridge.
	There was one incident where a man was driving a little pickup truck And the roadway actually fell down onto the ship that hit the ship, and he bounced and actually survived.
	Good heavens.
	So I guess, Captain, a lot of people down there apparently know about this.
	Yes, the fellow that, he rode the bridge down when the bridge collapsed.
	He rode the bridge down?
	He rode the bridge down in his little pickup truck.
	He's the only survivor of the people that went.
	He went out there every year on the anniversary and left white carnations for the victims.
	And when he passed away a couple of years ago from cancer, he was cremated and his ashes were scattered out there.
	That was his request.
	First time on our line, you're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hi.
	Oh, uh, Art, uh, I'm calling from LA.
	Okay, you're gonna have to kind of yell into your phone.
	You're not, uh... Okay, I'm calling from LA.
	Much better.
	Um, about 10 or 15 minutes ago, someone called in about these, uh, these five or six, uh, saboteurs that landed.
	Yes.
	And, uh, well, he, he has it all wrong.
	Uh, they, they were just young, Kids, most of them American citizens that had been born in the United States, or they had been born in Germany, but grew up in the United States.
	Yes.
	And they, all they did, they wanted to get back home.
	My husband was involved with one of them, Herbie Haupt, H-A-U-P-T.
	They ended up, they wanted to take a trip and see the world.
	They ended up in Germany, and because they were born there, they were drafted into the army.
	And Herbie had a chance to go to a saboteur school in Germany.
	I mean, in Berlin.
	Had a chance?
	Well, yeah.
	You know, to go back to the United States on a submarine.
	Yes.
	And my husband tried to talk him out of it.
	He said, you're going to get caught.
	You'll be executed.
	But he said, no, no, I'll disappear.
	Nobody will even find me.
	And he wanted my husband to go with him, and he, you know, my husband didn't want to.
	But when he found out that he was going to be sent to the Russian front, he changed his mind.
	And he did go to Berlin, but by that time the school had been closed down.
	My God, this must be the night for first-person testimony.
	Yeah, but the reason Herbie got caught was because he went to my husband's parents' home.
	In Chicago to let them know that he was okay.
	And his parents were arrested because they didn't turn him in.
	In fact, they had been given the death penalty.
	Well, you have that part of it right anyway.
	All right.
	Thank you very much.
	I don't know where everybody's coming from tonight, but you've touched something in them, Captain.
	Uh, strange, strange stories indeed.
	Again, uh, the Tampa Triangle dead zone is available by calling, give the 800 number if you would.
	800-929-7447.
	800-929-7447.
	800-929-7447 800-929-7447
	Alright, stay right where you are, we'll be right back to you.
	To get a cop...
	...done tonight.
	All right, sir.
	Where are you?
	This is Jim.
	I'm up in Faultville, Virginia.
	Yes, sir.
	I had kind of a two-part thing here.
	The first part was one time I read a story about up in, I think it was on the Suwannee River, up in northern part of Florida.
	There were some sightings of some, like, some giant birds for a short period there.
	Some saw a prehistoric penguin or something.
	It was really a weird story I read, and I was just wondering if y'all had ever heard about that.
	Captain?
	Well, you're getting, you're starting to get close to Gulf Breeze now.
	That's what I was thinking.
	Yeah, it might be more than giant birds.
	Yeah, well, you know, like I say, it's a pretty unusual story, and of course I'm interested in the subject anyway, but the other thing I was wanting to tell you, this is a personal thing, when you was talking about ghosts earlier.
	Yes, sir.
	My father died two years ago in the VA hospital in Cincinnati, Ohio.
	And the day before he died, I drove up there and visited him for the last time, and the next morning I came home, and, um, My mother lives here with me at the time, and she left at 3.30 in the morning, going to work.
	But at 5 o'clock, something woke me up.
	I heard footsteps in my house, and I was the only one here.
	I'd already knew my mother had done gone to work.
	I'd heard her leave, and I went back to sleep.
	At 5 o'clock, I heard footsteps.
	Somebody walked around in my house.
	Now, for some reason, it didn't bother me.
	It just, it felt natural, and I dozed back off.
	And the phone rang at 20 minutes after 5, and it was the doctor at the VA hospital in Cincinnati, called me and said my dad had died at 5 o'clock that morning.
	I appreciate the story, sir.
	Thank you.
	Art, let me ask you a question, because this reminds me of something that I'm looking into now, and that is, does the body lose weight at the time of death if a soul escapes the body?
	Well, for many years, Captain, I looked and I looked and I looked and I searched.
	And there was a rumor of a medical report indicating that, yes, at the instant of death, there was a three-quarter ounce loss of weight to the physical body.
	And this story remained myth until a physician Somehow, out of an obscure medical journal, found a medical study indicating this was exactly so, and proved it in a medical study, and I posted that up on my website.
	Now I'm sure it's still there somewhere, and I suppose if you go to the website and enter
	a keyword soul or something like that, you might be able to find it, but the answer is
	in one big medical study, yes, three quarters of an ounce at the instant of death.
	And they go into all kinds of gory details about gases and things escaping the body,
	and they were very careful to scientifically be sure that none of that, which is what everybody
	always tries to say, had anything to do with it.
	So you tell me.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hi.
	Yeah, this is Brad from St.
	Edward.
	Yes, sir.
	Wait a minute, I'm sorry, from where?
	From St.
	Edward.
	Where is that?
	In Nebraska.
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah, here in the Big Plains.
	I had a theory on a spontaneous human combustion.
	You were saying that since the body was 98% water, water is made up of hydrogen and oxygen.
	If you did have a substantial heat source, You might be able to break those down, and I believe hydrogen would be a real good fuel source.
	Okay, fine.
	But where do you get that kind of ignition temperature?
	Yeah, well, what the other caller said earlier about the vibration setting up for you.
	Yeah, you're right.
	I mean, it's as good a guess as any.
	Yeah, it's a good guess.
	And also, I guess on the theory of ghosts, has anybody ever... Somebody told me one time that Their theory was that you can actually see ghosts, but your subconscious mind blocks it out because it's, you know, too horrific for the conscious mind to take.
	Or the other way around.
	I would think it would be your conscious mind blocking it out and your subconscious seeing it as if, you know, have you ever seen anything sort of at the edge of your peripheral vision?
	It's there and then it's gone when you turn and look.
	Uh, maybe something like that.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi, where are you?
	Is that me?
	That, well, only you know that for certain, but yes.
	I'm in Dayton, Ohio.
	Okay.
	And mine's Barb.
	Uh, my dad, I've got a great bunch of ghost stories for you.
	But I wanted to tell you, first of all, my dad's a retired security specialist, uh, by Patterson.
	Uh-huh.
	Uh, Area 51 or whatever that- No, Area 51 is here in the desert, but, uh, Wright- Oh, the building.
	Wright-Patterson is indeed a very, uh, uh, unusual area.
	Okay.
	Well, my dad was, uh, he was, uh, kinda high up in Secret Service, so I can't say a whole lot.
	But he's retired and moved to West Virginia.
	And I, uh, had the privilege to live in West Virginia for three years with Dad and Mom in a remote area.
	Yes.
	And I can't begin to tell you the strange goings-on out there.
	Well, you can begin.
	Well, uh... Give me an idea.
	Well, um... I was... I stayed in a mobile... in a trailer, and Mom and Dad lived in the house.
	The house is haunted, okay?
	I won't stay there by myself.
	No, not... not okay.
	I mean, a haunted how?
	It is, um...
	We hear footsteps at night.
	We, I've seen, uh, I've seen black, uh, like black shadows.
	And, um, the girl that stayed there, she seen three women, uh, at the back door and she went out and they were gone.
	That would do it.
	We hear, uh, we hear all kinds of things like doors opening.
	Um, I mean, you know, it's, it's really, I'd, I'd be more than happy to give you a key to the trailer.
	You got this.
	Stay weak.
	All right, thank you.
	No, thank you.
	Actually, Captain Miller, I was once very close.
	I was very interested in investigating ghosts, and I actually had an open offer to my audience.
	You know, if somebody could actually invite me to a place where I could see a ghost, I was ready to go.
	I think that I've changed my mind about that.
	I might still do it, but, you know, I really don't know if I would want to see something like that.
	Would you?
	I don't know.
	It's pretty creepy stuff.
	There's no doubt about that.
	I personally haven't seen one, but... No, I didn't ask that.
	I said, if you had an opportunity to go to a place where you could see one, where things were constantly occurring, would you make the conscious choice to go and see it, or would you think about it and stay away?
	Oh, I'd go and see it.
	You'd go and see it?
	Sure!
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hi.
	Good evening, Mr. Miller and Art.
	That's Captain Miller and just plain Art.
	Right.
	Hey, Art.
	This is your fellow Gemini up there in Yuba City, California.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, I got a quickie little story Captain Miller probably might have heard of.
	You two should have heard of it.
	But, uh, a quick sidebar on that, uh, instant, uh, uh, what do you call it?
	Combustion?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yes.
	Uh, instant combustion, indeed.
	Okay.
	1982, there was a gunpowder company.
	They invented something.
	It was for black powder enthusiasts.
	It was called golden powder.
	It was 99% biodegradable ingredients.
	When it was ignited, Well, it might be.
	It was pure moisture.
	But since then they've been bought out and nobody knows what ever happened to them.
	So that got me to thinking, you know, think about it for a second.
	Alright, well it might be spontaneous human combustion is actually the phrase, but it
	occurs apparently, instantly.
	Captain, in the story you told us, was there any way to know how quickly that person immolated?
	Well, she went to bed about... She was last seen, I believe, around 9.30 or 10 o'clock that night, maybe a little bit later by her son, who gave her a sleeping pill.
	And then she was discovered the next morning around 6.30, I believe, 6.30 in the morning.
	Interestingly enough, Librarians are one of my favorite sources of information, and there's a librarian in St.
	Petersburg who told me about a second case of spontaneous human combustion.
	I looked it up in the files, and sure enough, there was another woman that spontaneously human combusted in St.
	Petersburg in 1968.
	The same night that Janice Joplin was ripping up the stage in Tampa and getting arrested for swearing at the cops, this woman spontaneously human combusted.
	So that was kind of interesting.
	You're not connecting Janice Joplin to it, are you?
	Well, they were both setting the town on fire.
	You know, it's fun when you go back through the microfilm to see the difference.
	It's good to have a sense of humor, too.
	First time caller in line.
	You're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hi.
	How are you doing, Art Bell?
	I'm fine.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Addie, Washington.
	Okay.
	I was in high school in a suburb of northern Chicago, Island Park.
	Her parents went out of town.
	My girlfriend and I, you know, the parents are out of town.
	You know, the cat's away.
	We woke up 4 o'clock in the morning, I went to the bathroom.
	At 7 o'clock in the morning, we woke up and the bed was in the middle of the room.
	And I said, Tony, what's going on here?
	She goes, it happens all the time, all kinds of... She lived in one of the oldest houses in that area, which is right along the lake shore.
	She says there's all kinds of stuff.
	She said, we eat dinner.
	We hear people running up and down.
	There's only three of us in the household.
	We hear children and noise running up and down the hallway.
	I'd be out of there so fast.
	Oh, no.
	I thought it was neat.
	All right.
	All right for you.
	All you people who love this kind of thing.
	I'm intrigued by it, but I don't know that I would go and seek it out.
	I might.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hi.
	Hi, thank you very much, and good evening to both of you.
	Good evening, where are you?
	Seminole, Florida, and of course I'm about 20 minutes from Clearwater.
	I first have a comment and a question.
	Sure.
	First, the Mary picture that's on the finance building in Clearwater is quite realistic when you're actually there in person looking at it.
	You've been there?
	You've seen it?
	Yes.
	Yeah, of course I had to take the chance, and it's still there right now, actually.
	It's been there since just before Christmas.
	Would you turn your radio off for us, please?
	Oh, excuse me, just a second, sir.
	That's quite alright.
	So that Marion apparition not only was there, but is there, remains there now?
	Yes.
	And it looks quite much more human in person, like I said.
	There are almost features, but it's not really, it doesn't have any facial Features that are distinct, but it looks much more human in person.
	Well, you heard, I think, what I said about it earlier.
	Let me ask you, Caller.
	Why do you think we're having so much of this now?
	What's your best guess?
	Well, for those who, you know, many messages come or the messages come in many different forms, I suppose.
	And that touches a certain segment of the population.
	And, you know, I'm not Catholic, but I I consider Mary quite important and that was something that
	was pretty interesting to see in person because it's been there for so long.
	It really can't be explained away as far as I can tell because it is about three stories
	tall and now they say that the finance building that it is on is going to be turned into some
	religious building when they're through with it, when the current documents are done with
	Well, you know, I am not a Catholic.
	My wife is.
	But I can feel it.
	I can feel it, and I think most people can too.
	We're being sent a message, and obviously in that case, it was a big one.
	And my question is, what are the coordinates for the, or the general coordinates for the Tampa Triangle?
	Oh, that's a very good question.
	Captain, can you tell us that roughly?
	Yeah, that's a real good question.
	I get asked that a lot.
	I don't think you can put Definitive boundaries on the paranormal or on a psychic atmosphere.
	It's not like a county line or a state line on a road map or something like that.
	But pretty much the area of the most intense paranormal activity is centered, seems to be centered, right around the Sunshine Skyway Bridge.
	And it extends up north towards Tarpon Springs and Cedar Key and then as far south as Charlotte Harbor and Fort Myers.
	East of the Rockies, actually.
	You're on the air with Captain Bill Miller.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Tim from La Crosse.
	La Crosse, Wisconsin.
	Yes, sir.
	Let me get this radio on.
	All right.
	We don't have a lot of time here, so... Okay.
	I just got a couple comments on spontaneous human combustion.
	Yes.
	Spontaneous human combustion in the east, I've heard it to be a yogi trick of death as far as is to dematerialize your body you send all your energy out of your solar plexus and your body dematerializes and also an interesting piece I read in a book was this guy who saw this National Geographic show and he saw the Tibetan monks there steaming off
	Uh, wet towels, ice-wet towels, uh, uh, sheets of their bodies using self-heat.
	Uh, so you're saying they were generating that heat?
	Yeah.
	And, uh, you can generate, you have a cold channel, a hot channel, and a neutral channel, uh, three main channels that your energy can flow through.
	And, uh, I guess what, what they were doing was channeling it, obviously, through dirt.
	Well, I appreciate that.
	I don't have the slightest idea what could cause a human being to spontaneously combust.
	It's beyond me totally.
	And I guess everybody will just have to think what they think.
	Captain, we're about out of time.
	Anything you want to say as a final word to everybody out there?
	Real quickly, one of the most rewarding things about writing this book was a phone call I received the other night from a woman who runs a bookstore.
	She has three sons, the youngest of which suffers from attention deficit disorder.
	Yes.
	Here's a woman that owns a bookstore and can't get her youngest son to read.
	He won't look at books.
	He won't do anything.
	She finally gave him a copy of the Tampa Triangle Dead Zone.
	And away he went.
	He actually read it.
	He got an A on his book report.
	And it's opened a whole... She said it's turned his life around.
	And then she started crying.
	For me, that was very touching.
	So a motivational book as well, I guess.
	Maybe it takes a different book.
	A little something different than Dick and Jane to get these kids excited and to turn them on.
	Maybe it does.
	And if they want Tampa Triangle Dead Zone, they should call 1-800... I'm gonna let you finish, Captain.
	1-800... 929-7447.
	All right, my friend.
	I thank you for being here.
	I'm sorry we have but three hours on this program.
	Probably could have done much more.
	Captain, we'll have you back sometime.
	Thank you.
	You're the best, Art Bell.
	Take care.
	That's Captain Bill Miller.
	If you want a copy of this program, the number is 1-800-917-4278.
	That's 1-800-917-4278.
	Tampa Triangle.
	1-800-917-4278.
	1-800-917-4278.
	Tampa Triangle.
	Dead Zone.
	I'm Art Bell.
	From the high desert, to wherever you are, goodnight.
	This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily or neatly put in a box.
	Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
	Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
	Please join us again next week at this time for Dreamland.

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