April 9, 1997 - Art Bell
01:23:09
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| If you're in the Western time zone or further west in Hawaii, you have yet to know, but there was a show tonight, apparently on Nightline, that dealt with the new Europa information. | ||
| And Ted Koppel did a committed a good act. | ||
| Ted Koppel committed an honest act, and he gave Richard C. Hoagland credit for predicting that this is exactly what they would find on Europa 17 years ago. | ||
| Every now and then, Richard, they do something right. | ||
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Well, yesterday, time and today, nightline, yes. | |
| That's right. | ||
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I really want to extend a very sincere appreciation to Ted Toppel. | |
| I met with him a few years ago, and he said to me, Dick, he says, I can't believe any of this could be going on, meaning the stuff on Mars and on the moon, without us being aware. | ||
| I've been in this town 25 years, and someone would have leaked. | ||
| He says, bring me some evidence. | ||
| So tonight, his staff, his able staff, including my dear friend Keith Morgan, brought him the evidence. | ||
| The NASA press conference held today at JPL at about 11 o'clock this morning West Coast time, with a group of very excited scientists sitting there, all amazed at these stunning images which have come in now from Galileo, which passed in February 363 miles above the ice fields of Europa. | ||
| Richard, what, in essence, do they show? | ||
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They show incredibly cracked ice. | |
| They show an incredibly jumbled surface that is being moved around and rotated and is apparently bobbing up and down and moving laterally. | ||
| And that, of course, cannot occur on a short time scale unless the ice is relatively thin and it's like icebergs, bergie bits floating on liquid underneath the ice. | ||
| And of course, the liquid has got to be probably water. | ||
| I actually heard somebody say there may be more water on Europa than there is on Earth. | ||
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Could that be? | |
| Actually, if you do a volume calculation, Europa is about the size of our moon, 2,000 miles across. | ||
| The ocean is supposed to be on the order of 60 miles deep. | ||
| So if you do a volume calculation, the oceans on the Earth are only a few miles deep. | ||
| The deepest site is the Marianas Trench, which is about five miles. | ||
| You take the surface area, take the volume, you do all that simple high school stuff of solid geometry. | ||
| And it turns out that the oceans of Europa probably have more volume. | ||
| There's more water on Europa tonight than there is all over the Earth. | ||
| What Nightline did not get into, they had a really intriguing discussion. | ||
| They had three scientists. | ||
| They had Dr. Greeley, who was the geologist on the team, one of the geologists. | ||
| They had Wes Huntress, who's deputy administrator for NASA and headquarters for space science, who's very aggressively pursuing missions now to Europa. | ||
| And they had Richard Berenson, former head of the American University and now an astronomer in the astronomy department at the American University in Washington, D.C. Yes, I mean. | ||
| Who I have debated with on the Mars issue and who, of course, has become rather antagonistic. | ||
| And Wes Huntress is not exactly in my corner either. | ||
| And when Ted announced that I was the one who had predicted this, had come up with a concept 17 years ago, you could see Wes Huntress really gulp. | ||
| But they toughed it out and they discussed the extraordinary possibilities, and they were extraordinarily conservative. | ||
| I mean, what I would like to do when we come back on next week is to limb out what I think is really waiting for us, and the fact that there is an aggressive NASA effort now to go to Europa to send missions. | ||
| Huntress was talking about going into orbit and taking pictures. | ||
| Greeley was talking about getting down to the surface and drilling through the ice. | ||
| And Ted said querulously, well, how exactly do you, by remote control, go down through several miles of ice? | ||
| And Huntress kind of let the cat out of the bag when he said, well, we've been doing some interesting things in the Antarctic along these lines. | ||
| What has NASA been doing in the Antarctic? | ||
| Good question. | ||
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We have information which we will impart next week. | |
| All right. | ||
| Well, now, there's also, without going into a long thing about it, the possibility of life is increased, is it not, by the probability of volcanic venting underwater? | ||
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Well, this is something I pointed out 17 years ago, that because of all the conditions of Europa living there in this incredible tidal action of Jupiter, if Io, which we saw in 1979 from the Voyager images, | |
| has this incredible volcanic activity, literally turning that little moon inside out, it's also about the size of our moon, about 2,000 miles across, then I reasoned then, and the data now supports the idea that there is internal heating due to tidal energy stolen from Jupiter inside Europa, | ||
| which could fuel undersea volcanoes and could provide the oases, the nexes, for some kind of evolutionary process up to and including microbes and, I believe, stunning things far beyond microbes. | ||
| But of course, NASA was 17 years behind us back then, and they're about 17 years behind us now. | ||
| They were just dealing with possibilities of microbes tonight. | ||
| And frankly, because of hyperdimensional physics, which we have seen played out in the heavens, a la the sun, I think that the evolution on Europa is much more exciting. | ||
| And in fact, that's the quiet behind-the-scenes reason for this flat, all-out push now to send missions to Europa. | ||
| Huntress was talking about less than two years. | ||
| All right. | ||
| We will get into depth about what you think might be there. | ||
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I don't believe you just said that. | |
| Next week. | ||
| Yes, I did say that, didn't I? | ||
| Congratulations, Richard. | ||
| It's certainly deserved. | ||
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Well, occasionally you win one for the Gipper, and this time everybody won one tonight. | |
| And next week, we will fill in details, and we have some surprises. | ||
| And there is a major, very large announcement that I have been planning for some time, Art. | ||
| And I've decided that we're going to make it on your show in gratitude for the exposure to the investigation and to our team and to our results. | ||
| We're going to make this first, not on Nightline, but on your show. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| We will talk about which day next week, off the air, this weekend. | ||
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Okay. | |
| All right. | ||
| Now, last night we were talking about This incredible plasma, whatever it is, that blew out of the sun. | ||
| And I said to you last night, it's headed straight for the Earth. | ||
| And you said, oh no, it isn't. | ||
| It's on a long curve shot. | ||
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That's right. | |
| And now, for some reason, the long curve shot was supposed to end up hitting Earth. | ||
| But tonight they're saying, guess what? | ||
| It's just going to miss us. | ||
| Now, it's kind of like the guy with the, I was using a golf analogy last night when they're trying to do a shot on a hill and have it come back down. | ||
| It's like, it's not quite going to go in the cup. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| How can they have missed that? | ||
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Well, space is huge, and we're very tiny. | |
| And this has happened before. | ||
| It's just never happened in the multimedia, multi-cable, multi-CNN, MSNBC Internet world where you stub your toe in Afghanistan and we have pictures of it 30 minutes later. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| So there's been a lot of hype around this for obvious reasons. | ||
| I mean, if it really had hit its broadside, the electrical effects that we described last night could be very serious. | ||
| There have been satellites that have gone down the drain before because of these events. | ||
| Our hyperdimensional model is predicting that even though we can breathe a sigh of relief perhaps tonight, the future does not bode well because we're going to have more of these. | ||
| This is going to be increasingly the activity of the sun because the physics is rising. | ||
| And I do want to give a plug to your book. | ||
| The quickening art is really the physics in disguise. | ||
| And it is what's fueling all of this. | ||
| The social, the consciousness, the change in spiritual terms, the change in geophysical activity, what we're seeing in terms of the center of the solar system, the sun, all of this in this model is predicated on a rise and fall of this background hyperdimensional link to higher invisible state spaces. | ||
| And we're on the increase and will be for centuries to come. | ||
| So as everyone has been saying, you know, fasten your seatbelt. | ||
| It's going to be a very interesting, if somewhat bumpy fight. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Richard, one last question. | ||
| Is it possible that while they predicted it would hit us and now they're saying it's going to miss us or is missing us, you know, it's a 24-hour event. | ||
| So could they still be wrong? | ||
| Could there still be effects that we will feel in the next 24 hours? | ||
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Oh, sure. | |
| I mean, this is not a point in space. | ||
| This is a huge mass of electrified material. | ||
| It's called a plasma. | ||
| It's protons and electrons primarily. | ||
| You know, they had some incredible time-lapse videos on CNN this afternoon, which I'm hoping to get up on our website, and I'm sure that Keith will put it on yours, showing this thing being ejected from the sun. | ||
| And it caused people U.S. Naval Observatory and NRL and other places to go, wow, and incredible, and we've never seen anything like this. | ||
| So there was a reasonable anticipation there'd be some interesting things occurring. | ||
| It looks like we're not going to get cobbered, but there should be some effects. | ||
| And as I said, it is a harbinger of things to come. | ||
| It's like the reason hurricanes are getting more and more severe. | ||
| The physics is rising. | ||
| There is a quickening in the reality surrounding us all. | ||
| Richard, long show, five-hour type next week. | ||
| We'll get into all of this, all right? | ||
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I'll get some rest. | |
| Bless your heart, and congratulations. | ||
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Thank you. | |
| Take care. | ||
| That's Richard C. Hoagland in Manhattan. | ||
| I think that I'm going to bring first Renee Barnett from Strange Universe on. | ||
| And the subject we're about to tackle is a strange film, a strange film that somehow showed up, and we're about to find out how. | ||
| That's why she's here. | ||
| Apparently or allegedly, and I hope I'm getting this right, smuggled out of Area 51, the apparent or alleged interrogation of an alien creature. | ||
| Renee, are you there? | ||
| I'm right here. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| Hi, how are you? | ||
| Fine. | ||
| Welcome to the program. | ||
| Renee is a segment researcher. | ||
| Is that correct? | ||
| And producer? | ||
| Producer and director of research. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So how did you get on to the fact of this film's existence? | ||
| You know, there's been rumors flying around for a few months about this. | ||
| It's a piece of videotape, actually, that was, as you said, allegedly smuggled out of Area 51 by someone who worked there. | ||
| And I had several conversations with people in the UFO field who had heard about this videotape, managed to track down the people who were in possession of some of this tape and have been working with them or working on them, | ||
| I should say, for, as I said, about several, probably about five months now to find. | ||
| Oh, it was who's got a call here, call there, track down this rumor, track down that rumor. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| All right, I would like to stop you for one second. | ||
| Keith, my webmaster, Keith, if you're listening, please, under latest news and items, if you would put a link to the still photograph from this video, if you could get that up there, it would be very helpful for anybody going to the website. | ||
| We do have a still photograph from the video that you finally got your hands on. | ||
| And I guess it was somebody from Rocket Video, is that correct? | ||
| Rocket Pictures in Beverly Hills. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And was able to contact a representative there and has been in conversations with him over the last several months. | ||
| The story was that they were contacted by this gentleman who they didn't take seriously in the beginning, but he called back, I think, a couple of times and they began to become intrigued by his story. | ||
| And I guess it had some ring of authenticity to it. | ||
| They ended up meeting with him, saw the video, and thought it was quite remarkable. | ||
| And what they've decided to do is to create a documentary for release on the home video market, which is coming out, I believe, sometime this summer. | ||
| How long is the actual footage? | ||
| Now, the actual footage that the gentleman has, I'm not sure how long. | ||
| The Rocket Pictures people have obtained just about three minutes, just shy of three minutes. | ||
| All right, about three minutes. | ||
| That's all I've really heard there is. | ||
| Now, maybe there's more. | ||
| There is more. | ||
| Supposedly more, but this is what they have to work with. | ||
| So they've created a documentary, which I believe is either finished or nearly finished and should fairly soon be available on the home video market. | ||
| However, Strange Universe is going to be previewing a small portion of this on, and we're doing something on Strange Universe that we've never done before, and that is that we're devoting a whole show this coming Monday. | ||
| This Monday, the 14th? | ||
| That's right, the 14th. | ||
| An entire show to this piece of video. | ||
| Entire show to this video. | ||
| All right, now I know that you went to some trouble to gather a group of people together, one of which I've got online, my friend Whitley Streeber. | ||
| And mine. | ||
| And indeed, and others, to view this video, apparently, first singly and then as a group. | ||
| Is that correct? | ||
| That's correct. | ||
| We gathered together four people who have had first-hand experience with their own extraterrestrial or whatever, other beings, visitor experiences. | ||
| So we thought, well, gee, these are the experts. | ||
| Let's let them have a look at it. | ||
| All right, who else? | ||
| You got Whitley? | ||
| Whitley Strieber. | ||
| We had Alice Levy, who is the co-director of the Ventura County, California Mutual UFO Network, Movemon, also experiencer. | ||
| We had Jesse Long, who's an abductee who's also had an implant removed at one point from his body through surgery. | ||
| And we had Steve Neal, who is an experiencer. | ||
| Plus, he's also a Hollywood special effects artist in his own right, worked on many wonderful feature films as well as a lot of very popular television shows like Star Trek. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So we thought, gee, he can look at it from two points of view. | ||
| All right, so it sounds an awful lot to me like you put this together in the way they did the alien autopsy in terms of presentation and review by people, you know, in the industry and so forth and so on. | ||
| Would that be a fair comment? | ||
| Yes, except in this case, we also put together some eyewitnesses. | ||
| Eyewitnesses, yes, that's true. | ||
| Strange beings. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Very good. | ||
| Renee, hold on. | ||
| When we come back, we're joined by Whitley Streeber, who was there, and a couple of more questions for Renee. | ||
| That's all coming up, folks, on Strange Universe this coming Monday from Great American Products. | ||
| All right, once again, here is Renee Barnett. | ||
| Renee, welcome back. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| We've got the still photograph up. | ||
| And let me bring on also now Whitley Streeber from San Antonio. | ||
| Whitley, are you there? | ||
| Hi, sure am. | ||
| Hello there, my friend. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| You were in the group of people mentioned by Renee that saw this video. | ||
| I take it they took you in individually first, Whitley? | ||
| Yes, that's correct. | ||
| Each of us saw it individually, and then we saw it again together as a group. | ||
| We'll get your impressions in depth here in a few moments. | ||
| Renee doesn't have a lot of time, so I'd kind of like to finish up with her. | ||
| But I want you here, Whitley, so that you stop me if we are going down a wrong or incorrect path or say something wrong. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Now, Renee, I had a call tonight from Dr. Lear. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Dr. Lear was apparently also invited to come and view the film along with the rest of the group. | ||
| Actually, no, he just accompanied Alice Levy. | ||
| We were not expecting Dr. Lear to be with the group. | ||
| I see. | ||
| And as it turned out, he did wish to see the video, and I was hoping to be allowed to show it to him, but a representative of Rocket Pictures, in fact, the producer and director of their documentary, was there and was in charge of. | ||
| And since there had been no prior agreement, unfortunately, Dr. Lear wasn't able to see it at that time. | ||
| However, he was invited to get in touch with Rocket Pictures at a later time and possibly arrange to see it. | ||
| I see. | ||
| So he may yet get to view it. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| All right. | ||
| He called me earlier and he was somewhat upset. | ||
| He said I was the only one with a solid scientific background and he thought that the reasons given by Rocket were not sufficient that, you know, first apparently he said there was not a release signed and everybody said, well, here, we'll fix that. | ||
| Just take one of these and erase that and put the name down there and we'll have a release. | ||
| And then the fellow from Rocket, he says, according to Dr. Lear, said, well, my boss, I can't do this without my boss's permission, and I don't think my boss would be there if I called him, and so he never called him. | ||
| Is that correct to the best of both your recollections? | ||
| Well, to an extent, what had happened was there was a prior agreement as to who would be there, and the releases that were signed were releases for Strange Universe. | ||
| I see. | ||
| And anyone else that Rocket Pictures has shown the video to outside of that group, they had special non-disclosure agreements which they signed. | ||
| There wasn't one of those on hand. | ||
| And so that was the deal. | ||
| It was unfortunate. | ||
| I would have personally Liked for Dr. Lear to have taken a look at it. | ||
| And, of course, Strange Universe had no objection to it, but it was a legal matter, and we just had no control over it that day. | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Renee, what is your take? | ||
| Before I get Whitley's, you've seen it probably more times than anybody else, I would imagine, since it's now in your hands, or anybody else I can talk to. | ||
| So I'd like to know just your impressions, Renee. | ||
| What do you think of this video? | ||
| Gosh, you know, not being an expert, it's hard for me to say. | ||
| I mean, it's very interesting. | ||
| It's very compelling. | ||
| I think Whitley is ultimately much more qualified to answer that question than I am. | ||
| And actually, he's seen it, the video in its entirety, as many times as I have and probably was able to study it a little more closely. | ||
| Believe me, believe me. | ||
| We'll get Whitley's impressions here shortly. | ||
| But, you know, you're a television kind of gal, at least. | ||
| And so, again, I'll try, just generally, compelling? | ||
| Did you find it, were you left with questions in your mind about it? | ||
| Did you tend to think it was the real McCoy or not? | ||
| It's hard for me to say. | ||
| As I said, it was very interesting. | ||
| It was very compelling, somewhat disturbing. | ||
| And I think you'll find out more about that from Whitley. | ||
| The being that was portrayed in the video seemed somewhat distressed. | ||
| And to think that possibly that this might be our first glimpse as a nation from somewhere else and to obviously see it in distress and in captivity was very disturbing in some ways. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Renee, I'm looking forward to the broadcast. | ||
| I know a lot of other people are looking forward to the broadcast. | ||
| Are you going to be in it? | ||
| No, I won't be in it. | ||
| I'm a behind-the-scenes kind of person. | ||
| I would like to get one more impression from you, and that is, of course, the trail of where this came from is almost as important, maybe not quite as important, but almost as important, at least, as the video itself, to know the origin of it. | ||
| And is that origin, in your opinion, strong or weak? | ||
| The trail, in other words, how much we know about where it came from? | ||
| Well, I know only what I've been told by Rocket Pictures and what I've seen. | ||
| Now, on their particular documentary, and part of this will be shown on Strange Universe on Monday, we see the gentleman that brought this video to Rocket Films, and although we see him in shadow and his voice has been manipulated somewhat, it's almost as though you can kind of see the person and you can get the outline of his face. | ||
| But I think that his identity, and hopefully we'll get more close to it in the future, and we're certainly going to be following it up on Strange Universe at some later date. | ||
| But at this time, I have not been allowed to speak personally with the gentleman. | ||
| He identifies himself only as Victor, which I don't believe is his real first name. | ||
| Okay, Renee, why does this gentleman, why do you think he felt compelled to not come forward with his, you know, just come on camera and say, okay, here I am, Harry so-and-so? | ||
| Well, Area 51, as we know, is a top-secret installation, and he knocked the video out of Area 51, and therefore, apparently, he's broken the law. | ||
| Here, here. | ||
| So I guess he has some concerns as to, you know, possible prosecution for what he's done. | ||
| Plus, you know, he might be possibly in fear of his life. | ||
| If this is true, I would imagine he should be in fear of his life. | ||
| Yes, there's a lot of strange things going on out there in the community right now with regard to threats. | ||
| And people have been burned out and threatening people to be burned out. | ||
| And we're going to get into that a little bit next hour. | ||
| All right, Renee, it should be a hell of a show. | ||
| It's going to be Monday. | ||
| It'd be a Strange Universe, the 14th, at whatever time your local TV guide says it's on. | ||
| Is that about right? | ||
| That's right. | ||
| I want to watch the following Monday also when we'll finally be showing our segment on Mel's Hole. | ||
| Oh! | ||
| Oh, it's going to be on! | ||
| I thought you asked me about that, so I was prepared this time. | ||
| Oh, wonderful. | ||
| All right, Mel's Hole will be the following Monday then. | ||
| 21st. | ||
| I'm really looking forward to that. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Renee Barnett, thank you so very, very much. | ||
| Unless, Whitley, do you have any questions or anything I didn't cover that you would like to cover? | ||
| No, I think that it was fine. | ||
| We could go on at this point. | ||
| I don't have any questions for Renee. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Renee, thank you. | ||
| And you. | ||
| And take care, and good luck. | ||
| I hope the ratings are very high, Monday. | ||
| I'm sure they will be. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Take care. | ||
| Very, very interesting. | ||
| All right, Whitley, welcome to the program. | ||
| It's good to talk to you, Eric. | ||
| Now, you were taken in first individually to see this thing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I guess I would just like to ask you, and I know there are some things that you're not going to discuss with the audience about this. | ||
| A few, yeah. | ||
| But before we get into that, I'd like, I think, to back up a little bit because there's a sort of backstory connected with this that you and I have not discussed. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| And that is that some months ago, Jeff Broadstreet, I think his name is, from Rocket Pictures, telephoned me and tried to get me to come out and view the video and give my Comments about it. | ||
| I was unable to do so because of, I believe, time reasons. | ||
| I kind of remember your telling me you were going to go to California to see this strange film. | ||
| Video, yes. | ||
| And some others did, I believe, who are now going to be in the documentary that they have made. | ||
| I followed their various attempts to, or heard stories of their various attempts to get a TV special organized around this film. | ||
| So in other words, they went and shot the networks and that sort of thing. | ||
| Yeah, I think they probably did. | ||
| In any case, that was not to be. | ||
| Whether, for what reason, I have no idea. | ||
| I think it would have probably been a very successful special. | ||
| But anyone who tries to get television films and books and so forth out in this area knows that it gets special treatment, so goodness only knows why they didn't succeed. | ||
| In any case, I would also like to talk a little bit about the poor people who were there, because two of them were quite unique people in the world. | ||
| It wasn't just an ordinary sort of garden variety group of witnesses like me. | ||
| I mean, I don't have any, there's no physical evidence connected with my case, at least not yet. | ||
| But with the case of Alice Levy and Jesse Long, they are unique people because their cases are substantiated by remarkable physical evidence. | ||
| What kind of physical evidence? | ||
| Well, Jesse Long's implant has been studied here in Texas and is probably the, it is in fact the only implant that has ever been studied that has turned out to be intractable to scientific understanding. | ||
| Intractable. | ||
| Yeah, Jesse's implant is made of a it's it's glass, essentially. | ||
| However, it conducts electricity very well. | ||
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What? | |
| Yes. | ||
| Glass does not conduct electricity. | ||
| I know, but this does, and we don't know why. | ||
| It is a scientific mystery, Jesse's implant. | ||
| Who looked at that, Whitley? | ||
| A scientific research organization here in Texas that I've been working with for about a year studying implants. | ||
| And I can't say their name yet because they're not ready to go publicly. | ||
| Well, the glass, of course, is used as an insulator. | ||
| I know, yes. | ||
| It's anything but a conductor. | ||
| I know. | ||
| It's a remarkable object. | ||
| We've studied it twice, in fact, and looked at it quite carefully under a number of different instruments. | ||
| And at the present time, there is absolutely no idea of why it might be a conductor. | ||
| There's some thought that the cobbling on the surface of this object, which is, when you look at it under the electron microscope, its surface has a very unusual structure, not very much like ordinary glass, and that something about the surface of the thing may make it a conductor, but what that would be, we just don't know. | ||
| In any case, Long is a remarkable man because he's had this object taken out of him and it has been studied and proved to be, at the moment at least, a true scientific anomaly. | ||
| He's had extensive close-encounter experiences. | ||
| Can you relate, in a nutshell, some of his experiences? | ||
| Well, I won't speak for Jesse. | ||
| He could certainly speak, I think, very eloquently for himself. | ||
| But I will say that he has had experiences over about, I believe, a 30-year period which have involved exposure to numerous children that he thinks had something to do with him. | ||
| It's been a very disturbing and difficult experience for him. | ||
| Whether or not his memories accurately reflect what really has happened to him, as in my case and every other witness case we cannot know, and that has to be remembered. | ||
| But nevertheless, it's a compelling and interesting story, and one that's supported by this unusual physical evidence. | ||
| Okay, so Jess is a remarkable case. | ||
| Alice Levy is also a remarkable case. | ||
| Alice had an implant removed from her by Dr. Ronimp Lear, who you talked to earlier today. | ||
| And that implant was studied through the auspices of the National Institute for Discovery Sciences in Las Vegas. | ||
| The study was done at New Mexico Tech, and it was found to be basically a little piece of iron clad in a complex group of mint minerals, and the iron was highly magnetized. | ||
| It was considered by the material scientists who studied it to be essentially unremarkable. | ||
| The problem was, what was it doing deep in this woman's calf muscle? | ||
| And why was it that there was absolutely no scar or anything on the surface? | ||
| The only evidence of the object was her awareness of her having been a close encounter witness or abactee. | ||
| No scar where something entered? | ||
| No, no point of entry visible. | ||
| And the object showed up on x-ray and was subsequently removed by Dr. Lear. | ||
| So the mystery there is the fact that the object existed. | ||
| What was, I presume you've had conversations with Dr. Lear. | ||
| Dr. Lear is not somebody I know other than a phone conversation earlier tonight. | ||
| Maybe you can tell me a little bit about Dr. Lear. | ||
| Sure, I can characterize Dr. Lear. | ||
| Go right ahead. | ||
| Roger Lear is a podiatrist and works, by the way, with other surgeons in this because he's not authorized to do surgeries above the ankle and doesn't. | ||
| He's very religious about that. | ||
| He is a NUFON member who, as a scientist, Meuter, became interested in the fact that these witnesses were often reporting that they had objects in their body. | ||
| Lear is a very practical down-to-earth guy, and his attitude was, all right, if people say they have these things in them, let's look and see. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And he looked and he saw, and by goodness, he started taking them out of people. | ||
| And got involved with another surgeon who I won't name, I don't think wants to be named, who works with him. | ||
| He's one of the, Lear is one of the most honest, straightforward people I've ever met. | ||
| And he's a pleasure to know as a human being and a scientist of a kind that we don't have enough of in the sense that he's really only interested in what's there. | ||
| He's not terribly interested in theories. | ||
| He doesn't come at things with a set of beliefs. | ||
| He just comes at them, and if they're there, he reacts to that. | ||
| If they're not there, then he reacts to that. | ||
| Hands-on. | ||
| Hands-on, extremely straightforward, and very smart. | ||
| Actually, quite brilliant, even. | ||
| An interesting man to talk to because he's constantly coming up with these surprising statements that are real synthesis type statements that sort of take you aback a little bit. | ||
| Well, he struck me as a very straightforward kind of guy. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| And by the way, I briefly discussed with him the alien autopsy film, and he said, you know, Art, I'm one of the few remaining true believers. | ||
| He thinks the Alien Autopsy film, and he'd be glad to come on the show and talk about it, is absolutely genuine. | ||
| Well, I think you ought to have Roger Lear on the show. | ||
| I think he's fascinating. | ||
| I was afraid to get too many people on. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| I mean, I think you should have him on his own just to talk about his experiences with implants. | ||
| Right, and that's exactly what I'm going to do. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| But he believes the original Alien Autopsy is a genuine article. | ||
| In fact, more so than the film that you saw and he didn't get to see it. | ||
| Let me tell you what his comment was. | ||
| He said, look, I didn't see the film, but I did hear some of the audio because I was in an adjacent room. | ||
| And he said, I heard the being that we have this photograph of on the website referred to as an alien. | ||
| And he said, that hit me because if it was military, they should have referred to it, he thought, as an EBE, that that would be the military nomenclature used. | ||
| Would you say there would be anything to that? | ||
| I've heard not necessarily. | ||
| I mean, military. | ||
| I've heard a lot of different things in terms of nomenclature. | ||
| I've heard them called the kids because there's something very childlike about their affect. | ||
| Fierce children would be one way of describing the way they come on at times. | ||
| I don't know of any official nomenclature. | ||
| I know extraterrestrial biological entity E was a type of nomenclature used at one point. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Whitley, hold tight. | ||
| We're at the top of the hour. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
| Joy now, back quickly to Whitley. | ||
| Whitley, are you there? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Whitley, we're going to take a little detour and come back to the video that'll be shown Monday. | ||
| But I've got something that I want you to listen to, Whitley, so that you can react to it. | ||
| This is really serious stuff. | ||
| Here it is, folks. | ||
| Here's what happened. | ||
| David John Oates got burned out. | ||
| His house was burned to the ground. | ||
| He was warned. | ||
| He got calls. | ||
| He had people who were supposedly trying to make deliveries, trying to get his address. | ||
| He finally, unfortunately, gave his address to one person. | ||
| His house, within hours, was burned to the ground. | ||
| He escaped with his life and smoke damaged some equipment. | ||
| He's living in a hotel. | ||
| He doesn't have a house. | ||
| Fortunately, it was a rented home. | ||
| And it was drastically uninsured. | ||
| But that does not lessen the impact of what was done to David John Oates. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He was burned out, folks, for what he's doing. | |
| And I think tonight we've got proof of that fact. | ||
| Because I'm now, how many of you know Stephen Greer? | ||
| Dr. Stephen Greer. | ||
| Raise your hands. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Dr. Greer is in Washington, I suspect now, was at the Pentagon. | ||
| Dr. Greer came on this program, and as you know, he was gathering together a group of experts, military people, other people, to prove conclusively in testimony in Washington that there really are visitors. | ||
| They really are here. | ||
| That UFOs are real, not the figment of somebody's imagination. | ||
| One of the people that was due to go back to Washington and testify is a man named Guy Kirkwood. | ||
| And I've got Guy on the line, I think. | ||
| Guy, are you there? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I am. | |
| Hi, Guy. | ||
| Thank you for coming on the program. | ||
| Nice to be here. | ||
| Guy, if you could briefly tell us about yourself. | ||
| Who are you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I'm a retired pilot. | |
| And as you know, Stephen Greer had requested that I attend the meetings in Washington, D.C. to testify into the congressional hearings. | ||
| This was several months ago, a few weeks ago, I received the package of itinerary and travel arrangements. | ||
| All right. | ||
| May I ask, in other words, what would the nature of your testimony have been? | ||
| You're a retired pilot. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Did you see something or capture something on the side taken during an operation with the Air Force and also from the flight deck of a Boeing 720B? | |
| Oh, my. | ||
| And what does that photographic evidence show, Guy? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, the one photo, which was only one of approximately 30-some thousand frames exposed by the group of four sabres in 1954, shows one of the sabre jets and two of five objects that were under observation at the time, daylight. | |
| A daylights. | ||
| You were flying a saber jet? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Correct. | |
| what do these objects appear to be? | ||
| I mean, are they... | ||
| Discs? | ||
|
unidentified
|
They were approximately the saber jets, 36-foot wingspan, and the objects were very close to the same in diameter, about 35 feet in diameter. | |
| Okay, so you've got some pretty serious evidence. | ||
| I understand why Dr. Greer would want you testifying in Washington. | ||
| So you got a package, you had your travel plans, you had your ticket, you were ready to go back and testify. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I was scheduled to leave San Diego at 6.30 in the morning on Tuesday. | |
| On Tuesday. | ||
| However. | ||
|
unidentified
|
On Sunday preceding, two days before that, at roughly 10.30 at night, the phone rang and I answered the phone. | |
| The individual did not ask for me or ask if it was me. | ||
| Apparently he recognized my voice. | ||
| Just made a very simple statement that if I went to Washington and testified before the congressional hearing, that I expect to receive the same treatment as David Oates. | ||
| In other words, your house would be burned down? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That was the implication of the threat. | |
| Oh, my God. | ||
| I don't know how much you can talk about on the air, Guy, but I know that at some level the Federal Bureau of Investigation is involved. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I spent some time with them the following morning on Monday. | |
| Now, of course, it is not established at this point in time that it is a federal matter, so they do not have official jurisdiction, but they have a file working for follow-up purposes. | ||
| Did you recognize the voice? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, I did not. | |
| And, of course, it was very brief. | ||
| And by the time I really, what had sunk in, what was said, it hung up. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Again, you received that call when? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sunday night, about 1030. | |
| Sunday night. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I didn't air the business with David Oates until last night. | ||
| Were you aware, I guess you know David Oates? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I do know. | |
| I've known David since he lived in Dallas some few years ago. | ||
| So this phone call threat occurred certainly prior to my broadcast, and at that point, not too many people knew that David had been. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I asked David how many people he had informed of the fire, and he said as of that time, roughly about a dozen. | |
| Of course, those could have talked to others in the meantime. | ||
| But there was no big national broadcast. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, no, no, no. | |
| It hadn't received any widespread exposure. | ||
| Until my show. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Guy, it doesn't even stop there. | ||
| There was another woman who worked with Dr. Greer who was also threatened. | ||
| Can you tell us about that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I, Monday morning, attempted to contact Stephen Greer to bring him up to date on circumstances. | |
| And he was at that point en route from his home in South Carolina to Washington, D.C., so I did not reach him. | ||
| I then called his assistant, associate in Colorado, Sherry Adamick, and informed her of the event that had taken place the prior evening. | ||
| Her statement was that she wished that she could respond with surprise, but unfortunately that she had received the same type of threats and that the threats had been carried out. | ||
| And although in error, they apparently burned the wrong condominium. | ||
| They burned the neighbor's condominium instead of hers. | ||
| My God. | ||
| So she received a similar threat, and in fact, they did do it. | ||
| So based on that much information, you obviously decided not to go to Washington? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That decision was made in meetings with the FBI. | |
| Guy, do you have any idea of the number of people that were due to go to Dr. Greer's? | ||
|
unidentified
|
According to Stephen Greer, in the area of 20 to 22 people. | |
| How many, do you have any idea how many? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I do not know, in fact, how many are actually there at this time. | |
| Or how many were threatened? | ||
| Correct. | ||
| So we know about actually two now, and of course, poor David Oates, who's lost his home. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Correct. | |
| I spent about four hours today with David at the house going over the remains. | ||
| I was hoping and looking for any type of evidence or testimony that it wasn't arson, and instead it just continued to Show the factors that it was. | ||
| Yes, and there's something that I'm going to make public that I maybe I shouldn't, but I should because it ties it all together. | ||
| David's public presentations of reverse speech have mostly been celebrities and politicians and that sort of thing, dangerous as that might be. | ||
| It's not generally known that David has done a great deal of work for the UFO community with reverse speech. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He has some significant evidence to bring to bear, which he has not done because he doesn't feel that it's going to aid and abet his efforts. | |
| However, it is, if you're in the business of connecting dots, it's certainly a dot that connects to these threats, in fact, more than threats, these arsons. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, of course, whereas you might otherwise consider it to be a cruel prank because of the acts that had been perpetrated, it had to be considered a serious. | |
| How are you reacting now, Guy? | ||
| I mean, even though you didn't go to Washington, you've still got to have concerns that what happened to David might happen to you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is why the FBI has been a great help, along with local law enforcement. | |
| All right. | ||
| Whitley's Treeber is on the line. | ||
| Whitley, does any of this surprise you? | ||
| Well, it doesn't surprise me. | ||
| And I'll tell you the most telling thing about all of this, and that everyone should remember, I think that as the lines are now being drawn pretty well clearly in the sand here, it's obvious that the people who are behind the cover-up do not have access to the normal authorities. | ||
| In other words, it probably is in general an illegal activity, which is what was more or less concluded, I believe, by the there was a Senate investigation of this some years ago. | ||
| It was very quiet, and I don't even know very much about it, but I did understand that they came to feel that if this existed, it had not been properly disclosed to the authorities, I mean, | ||
| to the Senate, to the oversight committees in Congress, meaning that all of the activity that had taken place or been initiated after the law changed, I believe in 1968 requiring such disclosure, was not legal activity at all. | ||
| And therefore, people who have signed security agreements in connection with this subsequent to that time have not been in compliance with the law, and the agreements aren't even valid. | ||
| And now we see a situation where instead of people who were scheduled to go to Greer's conference being given a quiet visit by the FBI and reminded of their security oaths, FUDs appear on the scene, burning people out. | ||
| And it's because of the fact that the individuals involved in this cover-up don't have access to the FBI because they're not an official organization. | ||
| They are absolutely a rogue organization operating inside and using the facilities of the U.S. government. | ||
| But I think it's becoming quite clear that this is not legal activity. | ||
| A government within. | ||
| A government within that does not have access to the duly constituted authorities of the United States. | ||
| And when it needs enforcement, it has to resort to the tactics of thugs. | ||
| Well, I'm beginning to wonder if those involved in ufology generally should all... | ||
| Look out. | ||
| Well, you know, I personally, I've known for a long time, and my whole family has, that we're soldiers fighting in a war. | ||
| And I can tell you right now that I expect to continue to fight until I can't, period. | ||
| Yeah, my view too. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| I think you and I and everyone else involved in this is in the same position. | ||
| Guy, is there anything else that you would like to say? | ||
| I really appreciate you staying up and telling us this story. | ||
| It's very important. | ||
| Guy, do you think there is a reason for general concern among those involved in ufology now? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, there's an old saying in the Air Force that the flag is heaviest over the target. | |
| And it is an indicator that you're getting close to the action source when you see such things coming about. | ||
| They apparently are very tolerant of revealing up data and sharing data with groups of 30, 40, 50, 100 people at a time at the lower level, knowing that there is not going to be any kind of organized threat to their activities. | ||
| But when you elicit this type of a reaction, now you know you're starting to hit home. | ||
| That's a good point. | ||
| I don't want you to reveal anything. | ||
| You just heard what Whitley said about the government within one. | ||
| You think that's a reasonable possibility? | ||
| I mean, after all. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm afraid this is a tragic truth. | |
| Tragic truth. | ||
| And the reason I say that is because here you are dealing with the FBI, which is the government, the government we see, but obviously whoever threatened you had to have had motivation that would have been as Whitley described. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, as the FBI pointed out, they said this is probably one of the most difficult, if not impossible, charges to prove and get a conviction in a court. | |
| They said, even when they have voice tapes, it becomes very, very difficult to convince the jury that the suspect is the actual perpetrator. | ||
| And they said, irrespective of that, they said, normally what they do is even when they've ID of such a caller, they'll send agents out to the address and show ID and then read the statute, the violation of the penalty. | ||
| He said, normally this will scare them straight. | ||
| However, he said, you have to understand when it gets to this magnitude that these are only employees. | ||
| These are people who are only contract people who are carrying out the orders of their so-called bosses, if you will. | ||
| Guy, when you saw this disc that you got the photograph of, was there any doubt in your mind about what you were seeing? | ||
|
unidentified
|
It was perfectly clear daylight. | |
| There was four of us in the operation. | ||
| They reflected sunlight. | ||
| We lost all analog instruments in the aircraft. | ||
| It was a serious situation. | ||
| Guy, I want to thank you for coming on the program. | ||
| And be safe. | ||
| Keep an eye out. | ||
| Do all that sort of thing. | ||
| Let them surveil as much as they want and just be safe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's nice talking with you, Art. | |
| Guy, thank you. | ||
| And we'll be right back with Whitley Streever. | ||
| 2-1. | ||
| From Mike in Seattle, Art, I suggest anyone who is threatened with any violent act should go as public as possible and contact all their neighbors, set up 24-hour surveillance of their home from surrounding vantage points and catch these low-life SOBs in the act. | ||
| This type of terrorist threat can't and shouldn't be tolerated by free Americans. | ||
| I absolutely agree with that. | ||
| And, Whitley, I know you have some comment on... | ||
| Please go right ahead. | ||
| Well, I have a couple of things to say. | ||
| First, if we look at this carefully, we find in both cases, or rather in all three cases, I refer to Sherry Adamiat, David Oates, and the caller, the gentleman we just talked to. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That would be Guy Kirkwood. | ||
| Guy Kirkwood, that's correct. | ||
| In Sherry's case, they missed. | ||
| They went to the wrong place. | ||
| By one place. | ||
| Right. | ||
| In David's case, they had made an attempt to find his address. | ||
| This means that they don't have access to official sources of information, obviously. | ||
| It means they don't even have access to the telephone company. | ||
| It means that these people are what I have always suspected they were, people in possession of extraordinary information who are outside of the loop, very essentially outside of the loop, and have got much more limited resources to do this kind of thing, I would guess, than they would like us to believe. | ||
| And would like especially these people to believe because they realize how vulnerable they actually are when people who have signed security oaths come to understand that those oaths were obtained illegally and are not valid. | ||
| So I think that in one sense, by bullying people, they're exposing a weakness. | ||
| I think, however, that whoever's back there behind this is extremely dangerous. | ||
| Extremely dangerous. | ||
| Well, I think they've just proven that. | ||
| Oh, yeah, to everyone in this community. | ||
| And anytime somebody is willing to violate the law like this, it means that they are dangerous. | ||
| And if they're as secretive as these people are, it also means that they are absolutely desperate. | ||
| That should be remembered by every individual who engages in research in the UFO community. | ||
| It's time to be careful. | ||
| Apparently. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| I mean, here we've got an Air Force pilot, Guy Kirkwood, who took photographs of a disc, a daylight photograph with a gun camera in the Air Force. | ||
| He's got those photographs. | ||
| He was all set to go testify, and they said they'd burn his house down if he went. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And they backed that up by actually doing it to someone he knew well. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| And in fact, you've almost got to wonder if David Oates, and this is off into the air of speculation, wasn't just done in order to validate the threat to Mr. Kirkwood and others. | ||
| Well, of course. | ||
| I think I'm sure that was part of it. | ||
| I really have to agree with the, I believe you read a fax just a moment ago. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, I couldn't agree with that gentleman more. | ||
| I am ashamed of the fact that this has happened to our country. | ||
| That apparently a bunch of idiots and goons are in possession of what is probably the most precious information that mankind has ever possessed and are hiding it out of arrogance and stupidity from the rest of us. | ||
| Tell us what happened in New York, Woodley. | ||
| Well, I have a little bit to add to this. | ||
| As I think I've referred to on a number of occasions, we had to leave our cabin in upstate New York. | ||
| It was not a matter of choice. | ||
| We were driven out, in part, by a financial attack. | ||
| We were paying a loan to Chemical Bank on time. | ||
| They accelerated the loan. | ||
| I was not able to pay the full amount off that they accelerated, even though the payments were being made on time. | ||
| They claimed in court that the loan was overdue. | ||
| We presented evidence in the form of canceled checks to prove that was not the case. | ||
| They were granted a judgment anyway, as if I had been a deadbeat. | ||
| But that was one part of the thing. | ||
| The other part of it is, at the same time, we were finding five-gallon cans of gasoline in the basement of our house opened next to the oil burner, or the gas burner. | ||
| And I was finding these in the morning after we would find them when the alarm system had been on all night and we'd been in the house. | ||
| I complained to the state police and was visited by someone from the Criminal Investigation Division. | ||
| And we were told that, in all frankness, they couldn't really protect us because we were too far from the state police barracks and we were very vulnerable. | ||
| And it was clear that if this gasoline had caught on fire while we were in the house, our chances of escaping were small. | ||
| Yeah, it would have accelerated and burned very fast. | ||
| Very fast. | ||
| And the other thing was that even if the alarm system had not been tampered with, obviously whoever was coming in could get right past it, And the system had sent out an alarm, it would be about 20 or 25 minutes before the police could get there with too much time. | ||
| So, whatever was happening back in those days, it was quite clear. | ||
| One thing was very clear: someone wanted us out of that cabin who was powerful enough, I think, to affect the activities of that bank. | ||
| Because any of the attorneys involved will attest to the fact that their actions made no sense in terms of getting their loan paid. | ||
| Well, that would seem to argue, though, with your earlier assessment of their capabilities. | ||
| In other words, on the one hand, they ought to be able to get crisscross directories. | ||
| They ought to have no problem finding their way to David Oates' house or anybody else's house if they want to. | ||
| But on the other hand, they can influence a bank to accelerate a loan to ruin somebody. | ||
| Well, if the things are all connected, it's hard to know whether they're connected or not. | ||
| Because in a case like mine, I mean, the amount of persecution that I've received over the years has been extraordinary and from many, many different sources. | ||
| At one point, an Italian reporter from an Italian magazine called me and asked me to give a comment about the fact that I was being persecuted by a religious group called Opus Dei, which I'd never even heard of. | ||
| I've never heard of them either. | ||
| Well, it's some kind of Catholic conservative group who very allegedly, I have no proof of this, was influencing my Italian publisher, Rizzoli, to cease to publish my books, which they did do. | ||
| They did cease to publish it. | ||
| In fact, they even bought and paid for one of the communion-related books and did not actually publish it. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| And I sold it a second time to another publisher who published it very successfully. | ||
| That's called shelving it. | ||
| They do that with radio programs sometimes. | ||
| For example, in a market where they don't want the competitive edge, my program, the Art Bell program, is acquired by somebody. | ||
| They sign a contract and they never run the show. | ||
| They just put it up on the shelf so that nobody else can get it in the market. | ||
| Yeah, but that sort of thing happens. | ||
| And in this case, it was because of some kind of connection that Rizzoli had to the church, according to what this man said. | ||
| Although my point is, this had nothing to do with anything. | ||
| I don't think it had anything to do with any kind of secret government or anything. | ||
| It was just something. | ||
| It was unrelated, persecution. | ||
| But there's so much of it out there that whether the gasoline and the banks'activities were related or not, I don't know. | ||
| Yeah, well, the gasoline and what we've heard so far tonight, this is really scary stuff. | ||
| And I would say so. | ||
| And I thought that guy made a pretty good point. | ||
| He said, look, when it gets this serious and people's lives are being threatened and their homes are being burned, what that means is that you're getting close to something. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| I think that, Dr. Greer, my impression is that there has been a lot of false starts and confusion connected with that whole operation. | ||
| But at the same time, there's been a basic level of effectness that's always been there. | ||
| And I think that that's beginning to threaten somebody, obviously, very much. | ||
| Well, it will be interesting to find out from Dr. Greer how many people that were due to testify were threatened and didn't make it and whether they effectively, whoever the hell they are, effectively stunted the effect that Dr. Greer wanted to have in Washington. | ||
| I hope that's not the case, but I fear it may be. | ||
| Well, I'm aware of some of the people that were planning to do this, and they certainly had the capacity to make some extraordinary statements and back them up as Mr. Kirkwood was going to with documents of various kinds. | ||
| If that came off, I think it probably would mean that there would have to be a more serious investigation of this cover-up. | ||
| Well, look, I don't for one second blame Guy Kirkwood. | ||
| If somebody tells you your house is going up in flames if you go back there and somebody else's house just did, I don't think I would have gone to Washington under those circumstances either. | ||
| Of course not. | ||
| And I think that Kirkwood was extremely courageous to come on the air. | ||
| Well, right. | ||
| I told him earlier I thought it was his best, you know, being positive. | ||
| It's a very good defense against people who are obviously vulnerable in this way. | ||
| But I do think there's a possibility that they will continue to act out of fear and desperation. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Let us leave this horrible little topic for a moment and come back to the video finally. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| There's going to be this video, folks, for those of you who just joined us on A Strange Universe, Monday the 14th. | ||
| It is a video that supposedly came smuggled from Area 51. | ||
| The interrogation, is that the right word, Whitley? | ||
| Well, let me, in a way it is. | ||
| It looks like an attempt at an interrogation. | ||
| All right, just lay it out. | ||
| Okay, but let me describe the video in detail. | ||
| And then if we can, we can go through the things that suggest it may be real and the things that suggest that it may be a hoax. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| What happens in the video is as follows. | ||
| It's a color video. | ||
| It doesn't look like a transfer of a video. | ||
| It looks like a straight video. | ||
| And what you see is a situation where there is a being behind like a glass. | ||
| There is someone sitting immediately to his left, and you do not see this person except part of the head and shoulders. | ||
| The being comes forward into the space, or rather is there already. | ||
| And let me describe its face. | ||
| It has roundish, very black eyes that look like they're almost the size of pancakes. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| A long, thin face with a small mouth that's cognacious a little bit. | ||
| It's a little bit extended. | ||
| And it has vertical folds in it. | ||
| The being sits there, motionless, for a few moments, and then it begins to wobble in a peculiar manner with its head sort of wobbling to one side. | ||
| And material is seen, but not very well on the video issuing from below its eyes and in its mouth. | ||
| And does it wobble? | ||
| Organic, organic material? | ||
| You can't tell. | ||
| It just looks like some kind of liquid. | ||
| It's very hard to see. | ||
| I didn't see it except on the second viewing. | ||
| And it's obviously in distress. | ||
| It opens its mouth and begins to sink down. | ||
| It's a terrible, terrible image. | ||
| To my mind, it was just dreadful. | ||
| One of the saddest things I've ever seen. | ||
| Whitley, you remember the photograph that we had up of the alien being, the one in which you said if it's not the real thing, it might as well be. | ||
| If it's fake, it's so good that you might as well use it as an example of what the real thing is. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, all right, that photograph compares pretty favorably, particularly in the eyes, to this photograph. | ||
| I look at this photograph and I see these large, shiny eyes. | ||
| Yes, those large eyes are characteristic of this whole experience. | ||
| The large, shiny eyes. | ||
| The one in the video, ones in the video around, I have seen those beings with eyes like that once or twice. | ||
| I wish that Raven Dana, who came face to face with one of these beings in my cabin a few years ago, could have seen the video because she could give an assessment because the one that she came face to face with had round eyes. | ||
| All right, now here's something that blew me away. | ||
| I've got the still photograph thanks to Sean Morton. | ||
| It's on my webpage, folks. | ||
| If you want to see this creature, www.artbell.com. | ||
| And the skin tone of this creature is, I would say, closer to human than what we know of as a gray. | ||
| I mean, it's kind of orangey. | ||
| Well, it's very interesting that one of the things about the video that was compelling was the complexity of the colors in the being. | ||
| What you can't see is the being pitches forward. | ||
| You see the top of its head. | ||
| I might add, by the way, that after it seemed to be in distress for quite a little while, two men in surgical clothing appear and begin to wipe its mouth with a little cloth, handling it in a not very sensitive manner. | ||
| I think they handle it like they might a dangerous animal. | ||
| They certainly don't handle it as we would handle another human being at all. | ||
| And one of the things that was so distressing to me was the whole situation seemed so brutal. | ||
| And I thought to myself, this, because of these thugs in this cover-up, if this is real, this video is real, this is the face that mankind is turning to this other world. | ||
| and i was people shamed by what i saw that it was a hoax and you do you are would you think that'll be Yes. | ||
| And then you had an opportunity to talk with the others. | ||
| So the hoax or valid question aside for a second, what was the reaction of the rest of the group? | ||
| Was it like yours or different? | ||
| Well, I can't speak for the others. | ||
| I don't think the others had as strong an emotional reaction. | ||
| At least they didn't give any evidence in my eyes to it. | ||
| I think that they tended to be very cautious about the video simply because I think everybody in this community is aware of the fact that there is a very high level of hoaxing going on. | ||
| Lots and lots of fakes are around. | ||
| Oh, don't we know it? | ||
| Don't we all know it, and very convincing fakes. | ||
| However, I do think that this is a that there's some things about this. | ||
| I think on the whole, I was probably more convinced than the others were by this. | ||
| I wouldn't say that I was convinced it was real, but I was convinced that it deserves a serious look. | ||
| All right, there is a designation at the bottom of the still photograph I've got. | ||
| It says DNI forward slash 2704 forward slash colon zero one colon zero five colon 21. | ||
| DNI. | ||
| Any idea what that means? | ||
| No idea what any of that means. | ||
| Was that present through the entire video? | ||
| Yes, it is. | ||
| And there's also a counter reading out along the bottom. | ||
| Let me get back to the description of the video, if I may. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| As these men come in, the being pitches forward. | ||
| And this is when one of the more unusual things takes place in the sense of it being convincing. | ||
| And that is, when the being pitches forward, you briefly see the top of the head. | ||
| And along the top of the head, there is a faint shadow, like a ridge, a slight ridge of some kind. | ||
| I can actually see that in the still marriage. | ||
| Well, that has been described to me from time to time by my readers, people who have had very close looks at visitors once in a great while, and used to be one of the things that I used for verification because it's not something that's been described anywhere in the UFO literature, to my knowledge, or if it has been, it's been in very obscure places. | ||
| Listen, my friend, we're coming to the top of the hour. | ||
| As you know, I've got a brand new book out called The Quickening. | ||
| The Quickening, actually, I shouldn't mess with the title. | ||
| And you reviewed it for me. | ||
| Yes, I did. | ||
| And I really, really want to thank you for that review with Whitley. | ||
| A video that is going to be shown on Strange Universe Monday. | ||
| They're going to devote the entire program to it. | ||
| It is supposed to be, it is alleged to be an interrogation of an alien being, an EBE, I'm not sure what you would call it, A being from elsewhere, and we're talking to Whitley about that. | ||
| So, Whitley, let's get back to it. | ||
| You said the overwhelming sense you had or feeling was one of sadness, the way it was being treated. | ||
| Well, if it's a real video, then it's, of course, it represents a great trinquility because it means that our country has failed in a deeply fundamental way to address the presence of aliens in this world appropriately. | ||
| There is one other thing it might mean, Whitley. | ||
| It's something you and I have talked about several times, and I'd like to raise it again right now. | ||
| Could it be possible, Whitley, that the treatment that you saw given to that being was because we have made a determination that these beings are no friends? | ||
| In other words, they were treating it as they would a prisoner of war or... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Certainly they wouldn't have been treating a prisoner of war like that under the Geneva Convention. | ||
| So it was a lower level prisoner of war than a human being would have been. | ||
| It's true that it could be that what we were looking at there was something that's incredibly dangerous to us. | ||
| And that the problem I have with that idea is if that's the case, then if they seem to be as they are, apparently, if they're real, in the possession of breathtakingly powerful technology, then why do they hold back? | ||
| Why would one of them ever be in a situation of being captured? | ||
| Because the extraordinary technology that we have video of in the skies doesn't jibe at all with the creatures being captured and ending up in the possession of intelligence. | ||
| Although maybe even with extraordinarily high levels of technology, things still go wrong occasionally. | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| Well, that's possible. | ||
| I would agree that it's possible, but I just consider it unlikely their motives have to be hard to fathom right now. | ||
| I mean, things like the description of what happened to Jesse Long, for example, or some of my own experiences, would suggest that there's certainly part of this that is really malign. | ||
| I would agree with that. | ||
| I guess I'm tired of hearing people come on and say, absolutely, these are gentle beings. | ||
| Oh, I help us. | ||
| No, as you know, I would never say that personally. | ||
| I've had a very mixed bag of experiences. | ||
| And it's true that this thing, if it is, it could be something along the order of a very dangerous captured soldier. | ||
| But still, if that's the case, then it's a great disappointment to me that out of this enormous universe there would come something that all it can produce for us is something evil. | ||
| That's really... | ||
| Well, you'd think if they were malevolent, the last thing the government wouldn't want to do would be to keep the people in ignorance, because our ignorance about this is what makes us so helpless. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| It may be that the government itself is under some kind of a restraint. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| But I do know this, that no matter what the visitors are, the situation is terribly complex. | ||
| And that gets to the possibility that the film may be a hoax. | ||
| All right, and what points did you see that would lead you to believe it might be a hoax? | ||
| Well, there were a couple of things. | ||
| The first one was the way the creature moved as it collapsed is Steve Neal, who was the special effects man who was there, said it looked like a badly controlled puppet. | ||
| There was also around the creature's mouth a lack of, I would say, of a sense of life about the face, the part of the area around the mouth, that would suggest that it was a rubber mask of some kind. | ||
| On the contrary, the eyes were incredibly, they were riveted. | ||
| They really looked incredible, just extraordinary. | ||
| The most telling things to suggest a hoax were actually the statements that were made by the anonymous individual who we saw in, that Renee described, as Renee described, sort of saw him in shadow and heard his voice altered. | ||
| Was that supposed to be a military person interrogating this? | ||
| Well, he's not interrogating the creature or president. | ||
| I'm sorry, President. | ||
| He's describing this. | ||
| He's the person who brought the tape out. | ||
| Victor. | ||
| Victor, yes. | ||
| And he's describing the tape and describing the situation. | ||
| And some of the things he says are weak, to be frank. | ||
| One of the things he says is that a telepath, that the man who is trying to interview the alien is a telepath. | ||
| And the man who's seen sitting in sort of in profile, sitting near the alien. | ||
| And that the telepathic communication was unsuccessful because of the being's distress. | ||
| It was incoherent. | ||
| And that whole scenario struck me as being made up or improbable in the same sense that the famous interview with, I believe it was Falcon, who turned out to be a gentleman named Richard Doty, | ||
| who used to say that the captured alien, the alien that had been captured back in the late 40s, had had its vocal cords repaired by Air Force surgeons so that it could talk, which is just ridiculous because in the late 40s we couldn't even repair human vocal cords, let alone alien vocal cords. | ||
| And this had that same flavor. | ||
| It was just sort of like an updated version of the same thing. | ||
| The other thing that he said that was not very believable was that the being was behind the glass because of the danger of infection, that they were concerned that the being would become infected by some kind of microbe from our planet because they themselves have eliminated all viruses and microbes from their world many thousands of years ago. | ||
| And I don't know if I'm quite sure you're aware of the way one of the ways our environment works is it's dependent upon the function, especially of microbes. | ||
| Oh, yes. | ||
| We couldn't have an environment without microbes. | ||
| The number of microbes that are dangerous is infinitesimal compared to the ones that we depend on. | ||
| Oh, of course. | ||
| So a statement like that is obviously not based on any scientific knowledge at all. | ||
| And you would think that someone in the position that this man was supposed to be in, if the video was real, would have enough basic scientific knowledge not to make a statement as silly as that. | ||
| So it's a giant mixed bag. | ||
| Yeah, it is a mixed bag. | ||
| And let me tell you something, Whitley. | ||
| When I get various photographs, and I get them all the time from people, some that seem very genuine, some seem like obvious hoaxes, I put them all up. | ||
| That's my attitude. | ||
| I put them up on the website and let people decide for themselves. | ||
| Well, I think you should, and I think that people have to. | ||
| Listen, if you spend any time with the Internet or with this world in the process of quickening and you don't have sufficient discernment, you can't do it. | ||
| Well, where I was going with this was whether it seems to me to be an obvious hoax or, you know, very authentic, the breakdown always comes back about 50-50. | ||
| I mean, people will say, I took a look at pixel number 578, and this proves that there's odd, or it's true, and it comes back a mixed bag no matter what you put up. | ||
| And so my question to you is, when the American public gets to see this on Strange Universe Monday, what do you think is going to be the result? | ||
| Do you think it'll be a big mixed bag? | ||
| A lot of people who will feel as you that it's very sad. | ||
| Will they feel angry? | ||
| Will they go, ha ha ha, what an obvious hoax? | ||
| What do you think? | ||
| I think a lot of people will believe it's an obvious hoax. | ||
| That would be my impression. | ||
| You know, there's something else about it that I don't, we discussed earlier before we were on the air that I wasn't going to talk about, that I think I do want to talk about. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| That is really the strangest thing in the whole video. | ||
| And I didn't want to talk about it because it's one of the things that I've used as a confirming tool because it's mentioned rarely, but mentioned by people who have close contact. | ||
| And it, to my certain knowledge, has never been discussed anywhere. | ||
| But it appears, I mean, anywhere in any book or TV show or anything. | ||
| I've watched for it. | ||
| And strangely enough, it appears in this video. | ||
| And what it is, or it may appear in the video, it could be just a coincidence. | ||
| In the lower right-hand corner of the screen, you see a little bright green light sort of bouncing up and down. | ||
| Oh, watch for it. | ||
| Watch for it, because this light has been described by occasional readers who have been very close in contact with the visitors in situations where there appeared to be some kind of thought transference going on, which is what was said was attempting to happen here. | ||
| And I was rather surprised to see that little light, because if it's a hoax, it's a hoax perpetrated by someone who knows this descriptions of the close encounter experience so intimately that it must be a hoax perpetrated by people who are very well aware of a lot of the hidden details of that experience. | ||
| So in other words, boy, you see a lot of things on both sides confirming and denying. | ||
| Yeah, well, I do, and that's not unusual, Art, because, you know, the whole structure of the close encounter experience, in fact, of the whole UFO experience, is to lead mankind deeper and deeper, not into a moment of catharsis, but deeper and deeper into question. | ||
| And it is constantly putting us in the position of facing questions that we can't stand, but that we also can't answer. | ||
| And it's amazing that questions like that almost they make the mind grow. | ||
| It's almost as if there's someone out there trying to induce a sort of psychological evolution in humankind or a kind of breakthrough. | ||
| And they're doing it by putting us under the pressure of question. | ||
| And the pressure is increasing. | ||
| And again, you know, that's why I wrote this book, because in society right now, there's a big argument kind of going on about whether what I call the quickening, without boring everybody by defining it again here, is simply a result of more media and or whether it's real. | ||
| And so I thought, you know, do some research and really come up with the answers and try and prove that it's not just more mass media and more communication, that, by God, across the whole human spectrum, things are accelerating and we're moving toward something. | ||
| I don't know what. | ||
| I'm not a prophet. | ||
| Tomorrow night, oh, a very rare interview tomorrow night with Elizabeth Claire Prophet. | ||
| She is one. | ||
| We'll ask her. | ||
| But I'm not a prophet. | ||
| I'm just a talk show host who's been observing the news. | ||
| And so I thought I would lay it out in this book. | ||
| And when it gets out, it's going to make a lot of people kind of angry, I think. | ||
| I would agree with that, Art. | ||
| Yeah, kind of angry. | ||
| It made me kind of happy. | ||
| I thought it was great. | ||
| Well, I know, but you've got a good open mind. | ||
| Well, I think it's going to infuriate some people. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| So I appreciate what you said about the book, and that was very, very kind of you. | ||
| And I know that you've written a number of books, and now mine is two days old. | ||
| And it really, it's like having a baby. | ||
| Yes, it's a strange experience. | ||
| Now, what I would like to do in a few moments is broaden the discussion a little bit after the bottom of the hour. | ||
| And I want to talk about Heaven's Gate. |
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