Richard C. Hoagland’s 1997 prediction of Europa’s cracked ice surface—backed by Galileo data and claims of a 60-mile subsurface ocean—clashes with NASA’s conservative microbial focus, while his "hyperdimensional physics" model suggests advanced life forms. Whitley Strieber and Renee Barnett analyze a disturbing Area 51 video, featuring an orange-skinned extraterrestrial with black eyes, handled roughly by surgical personnel, and green light anomalies matching rare experiencer accounts. Threats like Guy Kirkwood’s arson warning and Sherry Adamick’s neighbor’s burned condo hint at a rogue U.S. government faction suppressing truth, raising questions about humanity’s readiness for contact. [Automatically generated summary]
If you're in the Western time zone or further west in Hawaii, you have yet to know, but there was a show tonight, apparently on Nightline, that dealt with the new Europa information.
And Ted Koppel did a committed a good act.
Ted Koppel committed an honest act, and he gave Richard C. Hoagland credit for predicting that this is exactly what they would find on Europa 17 years ago.
Every now and then, Richard, they do something right.
I really want to extend a very sincere appreciation to Ted Toppel.
I met with him a few years ago, and he said to me, Dick, he says, I can't believe any of this could be going on, meaning the stuff on Mars and on the moon, without us being aware.
I've been in this town 25 years, and someone would have leaked.
He says, bring me some evidence.
So tonight, his staff, his able staff, including my dear friend Keith Morgan, brought him the evidence.
The NASA press conference held today at JPL at about 11 o'clock this morning West Coast time, with a group of very excited scientists sitting there, all amazed at these stunning images which have come in now from Galileo, which passed in February 363 miles above the ice fields of Europa.
They show an incredibly jumbled surface that is being moved around and rotated and is apparently bobbing up and down and moving laterally.
And that, of course, cannot occur on a short time scale unless the ice is relatively thin and it's like icebergs, bergie bits floating on liquid underneath the ice.
And of course, the liquid has got to be probably water.
I actually heard somebody say there may be more water on Europa than there is on Earth.
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Could that be?
Actually, if you do a volume calculation, Europa is about the size of our moon, 2,000 miles across.
The ocean is supposed to be on the order of 60 miles deep.
So if you do a volume calculation, the oceans on the Earth are only a few miles deep.
The deepest site is the Marianas Trench, which is about five miles.
You take the surface area, take the volume, you do all that simple high school stuff of solid geometry.
And it turns out that the oceans of Europa probably have more volume.
There's more water on Europa tonight than there is all over the Earth.
What Nightline did not get into, they had a really intriguing discussion.
They had three scientists.
They had Dr. Greeley, who was the geologist on the team, one of the geologists.
They had Wes Huntress, who's deputy administrator for NASA and headquarters for space science, who's very aggressively pursuing missions now to Europa.
And they had Richard Berenson, former head of the American University and now an astronomer in the astronomy department at the American University in Washington, D.C. Yes, I mean.
Who I have debated with on the Mars issue and who, of course, has become rather antagonistic.
And Wes Huntress is not exactly in my corner either.
And when Ted announced that I was the one who had predicted this, had come up with a concept 17 years ago, you could see Wes Huntress really gulp.
But they toughed it out and they discussed the extraordinary possibilities, and they were extraordinarily conservative.
I mean, what I would like to do when we come back on next week is to limb out what I think is really waiting for us, and the fact that there is an aggressive NASA effort now to go to Europa to send missions.
Huntress was talking about going into orbit and taking pictures.
Greeley was talking about getting down to the surface and drilling through the ice.
And Ted said querulously, well, how exactly do you, by remote control, go down through several miles of ice?
And Huntress kind of let the cat out of the bag when he said, well, we've been doing some interesting things in the Antarctic along these lines.
Well, now, there's also, without going into a long thing about it, the possibility of life is increased, is it not, by the probability of volcanic venting underwater?
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Well, this is something I pointed out 17 years ago, that because of all the conditions of Europa living there in this incredible tidal action of Jupiter, if Io, which we saw in 1979 from the Voyager images,
has this incredible volcanic activity, literally turning that little moon inside out, it's also about the size of our moon, about 2,000 miles across, then I reasoned then, and the data now supports the idea that there is internal heating due to tidal energy stolen from Jupiter inside Europa,
which could fuel undersea volcanoes and could provide the oases, the nexes, for some kind of evolutionary process up to and including microbes and, I believe, stunning things far beyond microbes.
But of course, NASA was 17 years behind us back then, and they're about 17 years behind us now.
They were just dealing with possibilities of microbes tonight.
And frankly, because of hyperdimensional physics, which we have seen played out in the heavens, a la the sun, I think that the evolution on Europa is much more exciting.
And in fact, that's the quiet behind-the-scenes reason for this flat, all-out push now to send missions to Europa.
And now, for some reason, the long curve shot was supposed to end up hitting Earth.
But tonight they're saying, guess what?
It's just going to miss us.
Now, it's kind of like the guy with the, I was using a golf analogy last night when they're trying to do a shot on a hill and have it come back down.
It's like, it's not quite going to go in the cup.
Nope.
How can they have missed that?
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Well, space is huge, and we're very tiny.
And this has happened before.
It's just never happened in the multimedia, multi-cable, multi-CNN, MSNBC Internet world where you stub your toe in Afghanistan and we have pictures of it 30 minutes later.
Sure.
So there's been a lot of hype around this for obvious reasons.
I mean, if it really had hit its broadside, the electrical effects that we described last night could be very serious.
There have been satellites that have gone down the drain before because of these events.
Our hyperdimensional model is predicting that even though we can breathe a sigh of relief perhaps tonight, the future does not bode well because we're going to have more of these.
This is going to be increasingly the activity of the sun because the physics is rising.
And I do want to give a plug to your book.
The quickening art is really the physics in disguise.
And it is what's fueling all of this.
The social, the consciousness, the change in spiritual terms, the change in geophysical activity, what we're seeing in terms of the center of the solar system, the sun, all of this in this model is predicated on a rise and fall of this background hyperdimensional link to higher invisible state spaces.
And we're on the increase and will be for centuries to come.
So as everyone has been saying, you know, fasten your seatbelt.
It's going to be a very interesting, if somewhat bumpy fight.
Is it possible that while they predicted it would hit us and now they're saying it's going to miss us or is missing us, you know, it's a 24-hour event.
So could they still be wrong?
Could there still be effects that we will feel in the next 24 hours?
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Oh, sure.
I mean, this is not a point in space.
This is a huge mass of electrified material.
It's called a plasma.
It's protons and electrons primarily.
You know, they had some incredible time-lapse videos on CNN this afternoon, which I'm hoping to get up on our website, and I'm sure that Keith will put it on yours, showing this thing being ejected from the sun.
And it caused people U.S. Naval Observatory and NRL and other places to go, wow, and incredible, and we've never seen anything like this.
So there was a reasonable anticipation there'd be some interesting things occurring.
It looks like we're not going to get cobbered, but there should be some effects.
And as I said, it is a harbinger of things to come.
It's like the reason hurricanes are getting more and more severe.
The physics is rising.
There is a quickening in the reality surrounding us all.
You know, there's been rumors flying around for a few months about this.
It's a piece of videotape, actually, that was, as you said, allegedly smuggled out of Area 51 by someone who worked there.
And I had several conversations with people in the UFO field who had heard about this videotape, managed to track down the people who were in possession of some of this tape and have been working with them or working on them,
I should say, for, as I said, about several, probably about five months now to find.
All right, I would like to stop you for one second.
Keith, my webmaster, Keith, if you're listening, please, under latest news and items, if you would put a link to the still photograph from this video, if you could get that up there, it would be very helpful for anybody going to the website.
We do have a still photograph from the video that you finally got your hands on.
And I guess it was somebody from Rocket Video, is that correct?
And was able to contact a representative there and has been in conversations with him over the last several months.
The story was that they were contacted by this gentleman who they didn't take seriously in the beginning, but he called back, I think, a couple of times and they began to become intrigued by his story.
And I guess it had some ring of authenticity to it.
They ended up meeting with him, saw the video, and thought it was quite remarkable.
And what they've decided to do is to create a documentary for release on the home video market, which is coming out, I believe, sometime this summer.
Supposedly more, but this is what they have to work with.
So they've created a documentary, which I believe is either finished or nearly finished and should fairly soon be available on the home video market.
However, Strange Universe is going to be previewing a small portion of this on, and we're doing something on Strange Universe that we've never done before, and that is that we're devoting a whole show this coming Monday.
We had Alice Levy, who is the co-director of the Ventura County, California Mutual UFO Network, Movemon, also experiencer.
We had Jesse Long, who's an abductee who's also had an implant removed at one point from his body through surgery.
And we had Steve Neal, who is an experiencer.
Plus, he's also a Hollywood special effects artist in his own right, worked on many wonderful feature films as well as a lot of very popular television shows like Star Trek.
All right, so it sounds an awful lot to me like you put this together in the way they did the alien autopsy in terms of presentation and review by people, you know, in the industry and so forth and so on.
And as it turned out, he did wish to see the video, and I was hoping to be allowed to show it to him, but a representative of Rocket Pictures, in fact, the producer and director of their documentary, was there and was in charge of.
And since there had been no prior agreement, unfortunately, Dr. Lear wasn't able to see it at that time.
However, he was invited to get in touch with Rocket Pictures at a later time and possibly arrange to see it.
He said I was the only one with a solid scientific background and he thought that the reasons given by Rocket were not sufficient that, you know, first apparently he said there was not a release signed and everybody said, well, here, we'll fix that.
Just take one of these and erase that and put the name down there and we'll have a release.
And then the fellow from Rocket, he says, according to Dr. Lear, said, well, my boss, I can't do this without my boss's permission, and I don't think my boss would be there if I called him, and so he never called him.
Is that correct to the best of both your recollections?
Well, to an extent, what had happened was there was a prior agreement as to who would be there, and the releases that were signed were releases for Strange Universe.
I see.
And anyone else that Rocket Pictures has shown the video to outside of that group, they had special non-disclosure agreements which they signed.
There wasn't one of those on hand.
And so that was the deal.
It was unfortunate.
I would have personally Liked for Dr. Lear to have taken a look at it.
And, of course, Strange Universe had no objection to it, but it was a legal matter, and we just had no control over it that day.
Before I get Whitley's, you've seen it probably more times than anybody else, I would imagine, since it's now in your hands, or anybody else I can talk to.
And I think you'll find out more about that from Whitley.
The being that was portrayed in the video seemed somewhat distressed.
And to think that possibly that this might be our first glimpse as a nation from somewhere else and to obviously see it in distress and in captivity was very disturbing in some ways.
I would like to get one more impression from you, and that is, of course, the trail of where this came from is almost as important, maybe not quite as important, but almost as important, at least, as the video itself, to know the origin of it.
And is that origin, in your opinion, strong or weak?
The trail, in other words, how much we know about where it came from?
Well, I know only what I've been told by Rocket Pictures and what I've seen.
Now, on their particular documentary, and part of this will be shown on Strange Universe on Monday, we see the gentleman that brought this video to Rocket Films, and although we see him in shadow and his voice has been manipulated somewhat, it's almost as though you can kind of see the person and you can get the outline of his face.
But I think that his identity, and hopefully we'll get more close to it in the future, and we're certainly going to be following it up on Strange Universe at some later date.
But at this time, I have not been allowed to speak personally with the gentleman.
He identifies himself only as Victor, which I don't believe is his real first name.
Okay, Renee, why does this gentleman, why do you think he felt compelled to not come forward with his, you know, just come on camera and say, okay, here I am, Harry so-and-so?
But before we get into that, I'd like, I think, to back up a little bit because there's a sort of backstory connected with this that you and I have not discussed.
Oh.
And that is that some months ago, Jeff Broadstreet, I think his name is, from Rocket Pictures, telephoned me and tried to get me to come out and view the video and give my Comments about it.
I was unable to do so because of, I believe, time reasons.
I think it would have probably been a very successful special.
But anyone who tries to get television films and books and so forth out in this area knows that it gets special treatment, so goodness only knows why they didn't succeed.
In any case, I would also like to talk a little bit about the poor people who were there, because two of them were quite unique people in the world.
It wasn't just an ordinary sort of garden variety group of witnesses like me.
I mean, I don't have any, there's no physical evidence connected with my case, at least not yet.
But with the case of Alice Levy and Jesse Long, they are unique people because their cases are substantiated by remarkable physical evidence.
Well, Jesse Long's implant has been studied here in Texas and is probably the, it is in fact the only implant that has ever been studied that has turned out to be intractable to scientific understanding.
We've studied it twice, in fact, and looked at it quite carefully under a number of different instruments.
And at the present time, there is absolutely no idea of why it might be a conductor.
There's some thought that the cobbling on the surface of this object, which is, when you look at it under the electron microscope, its surface has a very unusual structure, not very much like ordinary glass, and that something about the surface of the thing may make it a conductor, but what that would be, we just don't know.
In any case, Long is a remarkable man because he's had this object taken out of him and it has been studied and proved to be, at the moment at least, a true scientific anomaly.
He could certainly speak, I think, very eloquently for himself.
But I will say that he has had experiences over about, I believe, a 30-year period which have involved exposure to numerous children that he thinks had something to do with him.
It's been a very disturbing and difficult experience for him.
Whether or not his memories accurately reflect what really has happened to him, as in my case and every other witness case we cannot know, and that has to be remembered.
But nevertheless, it's a compelling and interesting story, and one that's supported by this unusual physical evidence.
Okay, so Jess is a remarkable case.
Alice Levy is also a remarkable case.
Alice had an implant removed from her by Dr. Ronimp Lear, who you talked to earlier today.
And that implant was studied through the auspices of the National Institute for Discovery Sciences in Las Vegas.
The study was done at New Mexico Tech, and it was found to be basically a little piece of iron clad in a complex group of mint minerals, and the iron was highly magnetized.
It was considered by the material scientists who studied it to be essentially unremarkable.
The problem was, what was it doing deep in this woman's calf muscle?
And why was it that there was absolutely no scar or anything on the surface?
The only evidence of the object was her awareness of her having been a close encounter witness or abactee.
Roger Lear is a podiatrist and works, by the way, with other surgeons in this because he's not authorized to do surgeries above the ankle and doesn't.
He's very religious about that.
He is a NUFON member who, as a scientist, Meuter, became interested in the fact that these witnesses were often reporting that they had objects in their body.
Lear is a very practical down-to-earth guy, and his attitude was, all right, if people say they have these things in them, let's look and see.
Sure.
And he looked and he saw, and by goodness, he started taking them out of people.
And got involved with another surgeon who I won't name, I don't think wants to be named, who works with him.
He's one of the, Lear is one of the most honest, straightforward people I've ever met.
And he's a pleasure to know as a human being and a scientist of a kind that we don't have enough of in the sense that he's really only interested in what's there.
He's not terribly interested in theories.
He doesn't come at things with a set of beliefs.
He just comes at them, and if they're there, he reacts to that.
Hands-on, extremely straightforward, and very smart.
Actually, quite brilliant, even.
An interesting man to talk to because he's constantly coming up with these surprising statements that are real synthesis type statements that sort of take you aback a little bit.
But he believes the original Alien Autopsy is a genuine article.
In fact, more so than the film that you saw and he didn't get to see it.
Let me tell you what his comment was.
He said, look, I didn't see the film, but I did hear some of the audio because I was in an adjacent room.
And he said, I heard the being that we have this photograph of on the website referred to as an alien.
And he said, that hit me because if it was military, they should have referred to it, he thought, as an EBE, that that would be the military nomenclature used.
Because I'm now, how many of you know Stephen Greer?
Dr. Stephen Greer.
Raise your hands.
Thank you.
Dr. Greer is in Washington, I suspect now, was at the Pentagon.
Dr. Greer came on this program, and as you know, he was gathering together a group of experts, military people, other people, to prove conclusively in testimony in Washington that there really are visitors.
They really are here.
That UFOs are real, not the figment of somebody's imagination.
One of the people that was due to go back to Washington and testify is a man named Guy Kirkwood.
And what does that photographic evidence show, Guy?
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Well, the one photo, which was only one of approximately 30-some thousand frames exposed by the group of four sabres in 1954, shows one of the sabre jets and two of five objects that were under observation at the time, daylight.
On Sunday preceding, two days before that, at roughly 10.30 at night, the phone rang and I answered the phone.
The individual did not ask for me or ask if it was me.
Apparently he recognized my voice.
Just made a very simple statement that if I went to Washington and testified before the congressional hearing, that I expect to receive the same treatment as David Oates.
I don't know how much you can talk about on the air, Guy, but I know that at some level the Federal Bureau of Investigation is involved.
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I spent some time with them the following morning on Monday.
Now, of course, it is not established at this point in time that it is a federal matter, so they do not have official jurisdiction, but they have a file working for follow-up purposes.
There was another woman who worked with Dr. Greer who was also threatened.
Can you tell us about that?
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I, Monday morning, attempted to contact Stephen Greer to bring him up to date on circumstances.
And he was at that point en route from his home in South Carolina to Washington, D.C., so I did not reach him.
I then called his assistant, associate in Colorado, Sherry Adamick, and informed her of the event that had taken place the prior evening.
Her statement was that she wished that she could respond with surprise, but unfortunately that she had received the same type of threats and that the threats had been carried out.
And although in error, they apparently burned the wrong condominium.
They burned the neighbor's condominium instead of hers.
However, it is, if you're in the business of connecting dots, it's certainly a dot that connects to these threats, in fact, more than threats, these arsons.
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Well, of course, whereas you might otherwise consider it to be a cruel prank because of the acts that had been perpetrated, it had to be considered a serious.
And I'll tell you the most telling thing about all of this, and that everyone should remember, I think that as the lines are now being drawn pretty well clearly in the sand here, it's obvious that the people who are behind the cover-up do not have access to the normal authorities.
In other words, it probably is in general an illegal activity, which is what was more or less concluded, I believe, by the there was a Senate investigation of this some years ago.
It was very quiet, and I don't even know very much about it, but I did understand that they came to feel that if this existed, it had not been properly disclosed to the authorities, I mean,
to the Senate, to the oversight committees in Congress, meaning that all of the activity that had taken place or been initiated after the law changed, I believe in 1968 requiring such disclosure, was not legal activity at all.
And therefore, people who have signed security agreements in connection with this subsequent to that time have not been in compliance with the law, and the agreements aren't even valid.
And now we see a situation where instead of people who were scheduled to go to Greer's conference being given a quiet visit by the FBI and reminded of their security oaths, FUDs appear on the scene, burning people out.
And it's because of the fact that the individuals involved in this cover-up don't have access to the FBI because they're not an official organization.
They are absolutely a rogue organization operating inside and using the facilities of the U.S. government.
But I think it's becoming quite clear that this is not legal activity.
Guy, is there anything else that you would like to say?
I really appreciate you staying up and telling us this story.
It's very important.
Guy, do you think there is a reason for general concern among those involved in ufology now?
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Well, there's an old saying in the Air Force that the flag is heaviest over the target.
And it is an indicator that you're getting close to the action source when you see such things coming about.
They apparently are very tolerant of revealing up data and sharing data with groups of 30, 40, 50, 100 people at a time at the lower level, knowing that there is not going to be any kind of organized threat to their activities.
But when you elicit this type of a reaction, now you know you're starting to hit home.
And the reason I say that is because here you are dealing with the FBI, which is the government, the government we see, but obviously whoever threatened you had to have had motivation that would have been as Whitley described.
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Well, as the FBI pointed out, they said this is probably one of the most difficult, if not impossible, charges to prove and get a conviction in a court.
They said, even when they have voice tapes, it becomes very, very difficult to convince the jury that the suspect is the actual perpetrator.
And they said, irrespective of that, they said, normally what they do is even when they've ID of such a caller, they'll send agents out to the address and show ID and then read the statute, the violation of the penalty.
He said, normally this will scare them straight.
However, he said, you have to understand when it gets to this magnitude that these are only employees.
These are people who are only contract people who are carrying out the orders of their so-called bosses, if you will.
From Mike in Seattle, Art, I suggest anyone who is threatened with any violent act should go as public as possible and contact all their neighbors, set up 24-hour surveillance of their home from surrounding vantage points and catch these low-life SOBs in the act.
This type of terrorist threat can't and shouldn't be tolerated by free Americans.
First, if we look at this carefully, we find in both cases, or rather in all three cases, I refer to Sherry Adamiat, David Oates, and the caller, the gentleman we just talked to.
In David's case, they had made an attempt to find his address.
This means that they don't have access to official sources of information, obviously.
It means they don't even have access to the telephone company.
It means that these people are what I have always suspected they were, people in possession of extraordinary information who are outside of the loop, very essentially outside of the loop, and have got much more limited resources to do this kind of thing, I would guess, than they would like us to believe.
And would like especially these people to believe because they realize how vulnerable they actually are when people who have signed security oaths come to understand that those oaths were obtained illegally and are not valid.
So I think that in one sense, by bullying people, they're exposing a weakness.
I think, however, that whoever's back there behind this is extremely dangerous.
And in fact, you've almost got to wonder if David Oates, and this is off into the air of speculation, wasn't just done in order to validate the threat to Mr. Kirkwood and others.
I am ashamed of the fact that this has happened to our country.
That apparently a bunch of idiots and goons are in possession of what is probably the most precious information that mankind has ever possessed and are hiding it out of arrogance and stupidity from the rest of us.
As I think I've referred to on a number of occasions, we had to leave our cabin in upstate New York.
It was not a matter of choice.
We were driven out, in part, by a financial attack.
We were paying a loan to Chemical Bank on time.
They accelerated the loan.
I was not able to pay the full amount off that they accelerated, even though the payments were being made on time.
They claimed in court that the loan was overdue.
We presented evidence in the form of canceled checks to prove that was not the case.
They were granted a judgment anyway, as if I had been a deadbeat.
But that was one part of the thing.
The other part of it is, at the same time, we were finding five-gallon cans of gasoline in the basement of our house opened next to the oil burner, or the gas burner.
And I was finding these in the morning after we would find them when the alarm system had been on all night and we'd been in the house.
I complained to the state police and was visited by someone from the Criminal Investigation Division.
And we were told that, in all frankness, they couldn't really protect us because we were too far from the state police barracks and we were very vulnerable.
And it was clear that if this gasoline had caught on fire while we were in the house, our chances of escaping were small.
And the other thing was that even if the alarm system had not been tampered with, obviously whoever was coming in could get right past it, And the system had sent out an alarm, it would be about 20 or 25 minutes before the police could get there with too much time.
So, whatever was happening back in those days, it was quite clear.
One thing was very clear: someone wanted us out of that cabin who was powerful enough, I think, to affect the activities of that bank.
Because any of the attorneys involved will attest to the fact that their actions made no sense in terms of getting their loan paid.
Well, if the things are all connected, it's hard to know whether they're connected or not.
Because in a case like mine, I mean, the amount of persecution that I've received over the years has been extraordinary and from many, many different sources.
At one point, an Italian reporter from an Italian magazine called me and asked me to give a comment about the fact that I was being persecuted by a religious group called Opus Dei, which I'd never even heard of.
Well, it's some kind of Catholic conservative group who very allegedly, I have no proof of this, was influencing my Italian publisher, Rizzoli, to cease to publish my books, which they did do.
They did cease to publish it.
In fact, they even bought and paid for one of the communion-related books and did not actually publish it.
He said, look, when it gets this serious and people's lives are being threatened and their homes are being burned, what that means is that you're getting close to something.
Well, it will be interesting to find out from Dr. Greer how many people that were due to testify were threatened and didn't make it and whether they effectively, whoever the hell they are, effectively stunted the effect that Dr. Greer wanted to have in Washington.
Well, I'm aware of some of the people that were planning to do this, and they certainly had the capacity to make some extraordinary statements and back them up as Mr. Kirkwood was going to with documents of various kinds.
If that came off, I think it probably would mean that there would have to be a more serious investigation of this cover-up.
Well, look, I don't for one second blame Guy Kirkwood.
If somebody tells you your house is going up in flames if you go back there and somebody else's house just did, I don't think I would have gone to Washington under those circumstances either.
Yes, those large eyes are characteristic of this whole experience.
The large, shiny eyes.
The one in the video, ones in the video around, I have seen those beings with eyes like that once or twice.
I wish that Raven Dana, who came face to face with one of these beings in my cabin a few years ago, could have seen the video because she could give an assessment because the one that she came face to face with had round eyes.
Well, it's very interesting that one of the things about the video that was compelling was the complexity of the colors in the being.
What you can't see is the being pitches forward.
You see the top of its head.
I might add, by the way, that after it seemed to be in distress for quite a little while, two men in surgical clothing appear and begin to wipe its mouth with a little cloth, handling it in a not very sensitive manner.
I think they handle it like they might a dangerous animal.
They certainly don't handle it as we would handle another human being at all.
And one of the things that was so distressing to me was the whole situation seemed so brutal.
And I thought to myself, this, because of these thugs in this cover-up, if this is real, this video is real, this is the face that mankind is turning to this other world.
I don't think the others had as strong an emotional reaction.
At least they didn't give any evidence in my eyes to it.
I think that they tended to be very cautious about the video simply because I think everybody in this community is aware of the fact that there is a very high level of hoaxing going on.
Well, that has been described to me from time to time by my readers, people who have had very close looks at visitors once in a great while, and used to be one of the things that I used for verification because it's not something that's been described anywhere in the UFO literature, to my knowledge, or if it has been, it's been in very obscure places.
And I really, really want to thank you for that review with Whitley.
A video that is going to be shown on Strange Universe Monday.
They're going to devote the entire program to it.
It is supposed to be, it is alleged to be an interrogation of an alien being, an EBE, I'm not sure what you would call it, A being from elsewhere, and we're talking to Whitley about that.
So, Whitley, let's get back to it.
You said the overwhelming sense you had or feeling was one of sadness, the way it was being treated.
Well, if it's a real video, then it's, of course, it represents a great trinquility because it means that our country has failed in a deeply fundamental way to address the presence of aliens in this world appropriately.
It's something you and I have talked about several times, and I'd like to raise it again right now.
Could it be possible, Whitley, that the treatment that you saw given to that being was because we have made a determination that these beings are no friends?
In other words, they were treating it as they would a prisoner of war or...
Certainly they wouldn't have been treating a prisoner of war like that under the Geneva Convention.
So it was a lower level prisoner of war than a human being would have been.
It's true that it could be that what we were looking at there was something that's incredibly dangerous to us.
And that the problem I have with that idea is if that's the case, then if they seem to be as they are, apparently, if they're real, in the possession of breathtakingly powerful technology, then why do they hold back?
Why would one of them ever be in a situation of being captured?
Because the extraordinary technology that we have video of in the skies doesn't jibe at all with the creatures being captured and ending up in the possession of intelligence.
I would agree that it's possible, but I just consider it unlikely their motives have to be hard to fathom right now.
I mean, things like the description of what happened to Jesse Long, for example, or some of my own experiences, would suggest that there's certainly part of this that is really malign.
No, as you know, I would never say that personally.
I've had a very mixed bag of experiences.
And it's true that this thing, if it is, it could be something along the order of a very dangerous captured soldier.
But still, if that's the case, then it's a great disappointment to me that out of this enormous universe there would come something that all it can produce for us is something evil.
That's really...
Well, you'd think if they were malevolent, the last thing the government wouldn't want to do would be to keep the people in ignorance, because our ignorance about this is what makes us so helpless.
I agree.
It may be that the government itself is under some kind of a restraint.
I don't know.
But I do know this, that no matter what the visitors are, the situation is terribly complex.
And that gets to the possibility that the film may be a hoax.
The first one was the way the creature moved as it collapsed is Steve Neal, who was the special effects man who was there, said it looked like a badly controlled puppet.
There was also around the creature's mouth a lack of, I would say, of a sense of life about the face, the part of the area around the mouth, that would suggest that it was a rubber mask of some kind.
On the contrary, the eyes were incredibly, they were riveted.
They really looked incredible, just extraordinary.
The most telling things to suggest a hoax were actually the statements that were made by the anonymous individual who we saw in, that Renee described, as Renee described, sort of saw him in shadow and heard his voice altered.
And he's describing the tape and describing the situation.
And some of the things he says are weak, to be frank.
One of the things he says is that a telepath, that the man who is trying to interview the alien is a telepath.
And the man who's seen sitting in sort of in profile, sitting near the alien.
And that the telepathic communication was unsuccessful because of the being's distress.
It was incoherent.
And that whole scenario struck me as being made up or improbable in the same sense that the famous interview with, I believe it was Falcon, who turned out to be a gentleman named Richard Doty,
who used to say that the captured alien, the alien that had been captured back in the late 40s, had had its vocal cords repaired by Air Force surgeons so that it could talk, which is just ridiculous because in the late 40s we couldn't even repair human vocal cords, let alone alien vocal cords.
And this had that same flavor.
It was just sort of like an updated version of the same thing.
The other thing that he said that was not very believable was that the being was behind the glass because of the danger of infection, that they were concerned that the being would become infected by some kind of microbe from our planet because they themselves have eliminated all viruses and microbes from their world many thousands of years ago.
And I don't know if I'm quite sure you're aware of the way one of the ways our environment works is it's dependent upon the function, especially of microbes.
So a statement like that is obviously not based on any scientific knowledge at all.
And you would think that someone in the position that this man was supposed to be in, if the video was real, would have enough basic scientific knowledge not to make a statement as silly as that.
When I get various photographs, and I get them all the time from people, some that seem very genuine, some seem like obvious hoaxes, I put them all up.
That's my attitude.
I put them up on the website and let people decide for themselves.
Well, I think you should, and I think that people have to.
Listen, if you spend any time with the Internet or with this world in the process of quickening and you don't have sufficient discernment, you can't do it.
Well, where I was going with this was whether it seems to me to be an obvious hoax or, you know, very authentic, the breakdown always comes back about 50-50.
I mean, people will say, I took a look at pixel number 578, and this proves that there's odd, or it's true, and it comes back a mixed bag no matter what you put up.
And so my question to you is, when the American public gets to see this on Strange Universe Monday, what do you think is going to be the result?
Do you think it'll be a big mixed bag?
A lot of people who will feel as you that it's very sad.
I think a lot of people will believe it's an obvious hoax.
That would be my impression.
You know, there's something else about it that I don't, we discussed earlier before we were on the air that I wasn't going to talk about, that I think I do want to talk about.
That is really the strangest thing in the whole video.
And I didn't want to talk about it because it's one of the things that I've used as a confirming tool because it's mentioned rarely, but mentioned by people who have close contact.
And it, to my certain knowledge, has never been discussed anywhere.
But it appears, I mean, anywhere in any book or TV show or anything.
I've watched for it.
And strangely enough, it appears in this video.
And what it is, or it may appear in the video, it could be just a coincidence.
In the lower right-hand corner of the screen, you see a little bright green light sort of bouncing up and down.
Watch for it, because this light has been described by occasional readers who have been very close in contact with the visitors in situations where there appeared to be some kind of thought transference going on, which is what was said was attempting to happen here.
And I was rather surprised to see that little light, because if it's a hoax, it's a hoax perpetrated by someone who knows this descriptions of the close encounter experience so intimately that it must be a hoax perpetrated by people who are very well aware of a lot of the hidden details of that experience.
Yeah, well, I do, and that's not unusual, Art, because, you know, the whole structure of the close encounter experience, in fact, of the whole UFO experience, is to lead mankind deeper and deeper, not into a moment of catharsis, but deeper and deeper into question.
And it is constantly putting us in the position of facing questions that we can't stand, but that we also can't answer.
And it's amazing that questions like that almost they make the mind grow.
It's almost as if there's someone out there trying to induce a sort of psychological evolution in humankind or a kind of breakthrough.
And they're doing it by putting us under the pressure of question.
And again, you know, that's why I wrote this book, because in society right now, there's a big argument kind of going on about whether what I call the quickening, without boring everybody by defining it again here, is simply a result of more media and or whether it's real.
And so I thought, you know, do some research and really come up with the answers and try and prove that it's not just more mass media and more communication, that, by God, across the whole human spectrum, things are accelerating and we're moving toward something.
I don't know what.
I'm not a prophet.
Tomorrow night, oh, a very rare interview tomorrow night with Elizabeth Claire Prophet.
She is one.
We'll ask her.
But I'm not a prophet.
I'm just a talk show host who's been observing the news.
And so I thought I would lay it out in this book.
And when it gets out, it's going to make a lot of people kind of angry, I think.