Scott Portzline, a 13-year Three Mile Island researcher, argues the 1979 disaster—where melting fuel nearly breached containment—was likely sabotage after reviewing 30,000 pages of evidence, including disabled valves and insider threats. The NRC’s inadequate barriers (75 feet from spent fuel) and lost accident documents raise concerns about systemic failures, with Portzline citing monthly internal sabotage incidents and Soviet-style waste dumping. Callers debate risks like seismic vulnerabilities, truck bomb threats, and radiation exposure, while Bell dismisses unrelated UFO claims but acknowledges nuclear power’s dangers. The episode underscores how unchecked security flaws and government inaction could turn reactors into ticking time bombs. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, good morning, as the case may be, across all these many time zones from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chains.
Visions of Kramex, native girls, and all that.
All the way east to the Caribbean.
Similar visions.
U.S. Virgin Islands.
South into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet.
This is Coast to Coast AF.
I'm Mark Bell.
And it is great to be here.
We're going to talk about something from our childhood, some of us.
How many of you remember Three Mile Island?
Well, I do.
I sure do.
Some of it is fairly vague, but I was close to Three Mile Island at the time.
And what I remember, what I remember are lies.
Now, we've got somebody who knows about Three Mile Island.
He's in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
That's who we're going to interview.
His name is Scott Ports Line.
But I'm going to sort of test my memories on the subject.
And I was living near the Pennsylvania-Maryland border at the time.
And I remember the news when it began to break.
I wonder if you do, any of you who are old enough.
And I remember that they began to tell us there was a minor, a very minor problem at Three Mile Island.
And that news continued and was repeated again and again.
A very calming report.
Yes, there is a small problem at Three Mile Island.
Nothing to worry about.
Not to worry.
Well, it was not a small problem.
And what I recall at the time is that we were lied to.
But maybe my memory is faulty.
That's what I remember from Three Mile Island when I was a child.
That we were lied to.
How about you?
Accident?
I think Scott believes we were lied to.
We'll find out.
Coming up.
All right.
Again, with respect, before we get to Scott, with respect to the internet, the all-consuming internet, I want to share this with you.
I want to be sure you know about it.
We talked about it extensively last night and may well later tonight.
It is a medical study from 1907, thought long lost.
It is a most, most remarkable medical study that would appear to confirm the existence of the soul.
You can read about six human case studies which show an absolute and instantaneous weight loss at the precise instant of clinical death.
It is a most remarkable article, and I ask you to go on up to the internet and read it.
My web address is www.artbell.
That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L, no space, dot com.
That's www.artbell.com on the internet.
And before we go to Scott, and while we're on the subject of the internet, I want to try to play you something kind of cute that somebody sent me earlier today about the internet.
Scott Ports Line has researched the Three Mile Island nuclear accident, that I guess ought to be in quotes, for 13 years, covering more than 30,000 pages of documents, testimony, memorandums, and hours of tape depositions obtained at the National Archives and other public document rooms.
He has found sufficient evidence to suggest that the accident was no accident.
He says there are documents which indicate a cult, get this, a cult was planning to sabotage the plant months before the accident and include the date of the planned attack.
There's been more than 150 acts of sabotage at U.S. commercial nuclear plants, and he is familiar with many of them.
In 1993, he testified to the U.S. Senate, Pennsylvania House of Representatives, the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and the Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards following a vehicle intrusion at Three Mile Island,
which the New York Times reported, and said his research showed how ordinary citizens can use publicly available documents to prepare an act of sabotage against a nuclear plant.
The sports line says, public documents become a how-to book in the hands of a saboteur.
His testimony and video presentation exposed the serious lack of security at commercial nuclear plants.
Just 10 months before the intrusion, he warned an NRC advisory panel that the security at Three Mile Island was woefully inadequate.
In the past, he has been reluctant to speak out about the problems so as not to give people ideas.
As I said at the beginning of the program, I was close by, or not that far away, when Three Mile Island occurred.
And my memory of it is anger.
I remember being angry about what was reported as the whole thing came down, and then later the slowly leaking reality of what had happened and the real danger.
Now, I guess all I can say is, Scott, tell us what you know.
Well, you had every right to be angry during the first day of the accident, which was Wednesday, March 28th, 1979.
The utility, GPU, and Metropolitan Edison were constantly downplaying the incident, saying it was just an incident, a very minor thing.
Meanwhile, the reactor was highly out of control.
In fact, it was out of control for approximately 12 hours.
And they had no idea of how they were going to get it under control or the condition exactly of the fuel, which was melting.
In fact, fuel melted twice.
So the press releases and conferences that started that morning were a pack of lies.
And to some degree, the public relations people for GPU knew that they were lying.
She had every right to be angry.
In fact, the press over the next 48 hours became so upset with GPU that they would literally go on the radio and television in this area saying, here's what the company is saying, and here's something different that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is saying.
Can you tell us, before we get into motivation or whether it might have been sabotage or whatever, can you give us a chronology of what actually happened at Three Mile Island?
At 4 o'clock in the morning, there was a sign of first trouble when the turbine tripped because of a loss of flow through the secondary system.
There's three loops of coolant, actually, in a nuclear reactor.
And very rapidly, the reactor trips eight seconds after this stoppage in the flow.
A release valve sits on top of the reactor, and that opens up, allowing steam, which is radioactive, and the radioactive coolant, literally, to flow out of the reactor core, and then it's supposed to shut.
But this valve fails to shut.
And so you have a release going on.
It's called a loss of coolant accident.
And all the coolant is coming out of this relief valve that sits on top of the reactor.
But the temperatures are so high, and the nuclear reaction continues on for about an hour and a half because of the residual neutrons that are still going through the control rods and in the water itself.
The pressure goes up, the temperature goes up, you're losing your coolant out the top, so you're having steam voids appearing in the system and through the piping, and now you can't even pump water because you have voids where there's steam.
You can't pump steam, and you can't pump vacuum, and you can't pump air.
I would hate to have been a reactor operator on that day.
You would have had to want to run home because nothing made sense.
Your control panel was giving you certain information that was incorrect and inaccurate.
Their manuals on how to take the reactor down during this process didn't describe the situation that they were seeing, and nothing they knew to do was helping.
They'd adjust something, think they have it under control, and 15 minutes later it'd be the exact opposite or just going, hey, hey, wire again.
So they had a great deal of trouble, especially during the first few hours.
Yes, unless there's a test going on and you are required to spine a piece of paper saying you're closing them at what time and again when you open them.
So would there not have been a record the last time for a test or whatever other reason those valves were closed and then ostensibly, I suppose, reopened after the test?
So, meanwhile, the reactor is, what begins to happen?
You know, I saw, I'm not an expert in this area, I saw a China syndrome with Jane Fonda, I think it was.
Wasn't Jane Fonda in there?
Yes, I think she has.
And so I know, I guess, a little bit about what can begin to happen.
And I guess the material can get so hot with no coolant that it could literally drop through the entire containment and begin to go down, sink into the ground, a total meltdown.
In fact, it wasn't until, oh, I'd say four or five years ago that one of the laboratories in Idaho that works with nuclear discovered that we were saved by good fortune or luck, if you want to call it that, because the fuel started to melt at the top of the core.
The water level is below the fuel.
It's heating up to over 5,000 degrees, and it starts to melt.
The control rods and the fuel rods burst open, and the fuel pellets literally have become molten and fall to the bottom of the core.
So fuel melted not only once, but it melted the second time when it reached the bottom of the reactor, and it assembled in such a geometric formation that the proximity allowed another nuclear chain reaction to start.
And we had a situation where nobody knew for years that the fuel was melting on the bottom of the core.
I think more than 50% of that core collapsed to the bottom of the reactor.
And what happened was vacuum of air and steam, well, steam wouldn't be a vacuum.
I guess air wouldn't either.
But you had vacuum and steam voids between the molten fuel and the stainless steel reactor.
And that prevented the fuel from melting through the steel of the reactor and onto the basement floor.
And hitting the water that's now drained out on the reactor floor would have had tremendous steam flashes and overpressurization of the reactor building, which could lead to loss of containment or even an explosion of a steam nature.
And it would have been just a terrible, instantaneous catastrophe at that point.
Well, actually, I would like to know what would have occurred had that occurred, and we'll ask you about that.
I'm not sure anybody really knows, but I guess they have studied such a possibility.
We're talking with Scott Porzline, who has testified before many people who wanted to know about this kind of thing, and now you, about Three Mile Island, about What really happened at Three Mile Island?
There'll be more of it in a moment.
Once again, here I am, Scott Port's Line is my guest from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
He's talking about Three Mile Island.
If you really, if you want to know what actually happened there, then stay tuned.
Back now to Scott Port's Line.
Scott?
Yeah.
Just theoretically, if everything had gone instead of in a lucky direction, but it had gone wrong, and there had been a full meltdown through the containment, what would have happened?
That was discussed in a report by a man named Rath Newson, who right before the accident, a week before, withdrew his report stating that he could not determine whether it was accurate and that the chance of these consequences were greater or less.
But the consequences could be the state of an area the size of the state of Pennsylvania, coincidentally, could be rendered useless and could kill 130,000 people.
The American people, and I'm one of them, have always thought that unlike Chernobyl and the Russian reactors with poor containment, that our containment facilities for nuclear reactors were, you know, I don't like to use the word fail-safe, but that we were protected, that nothing like that really could ever happen with an American nuclear reactor.
It could happen, but not for the same reasons that it happened in Chernobyl.
In fact, I just talked to a reactor engineer today, Dr. Richard Webb, who was telling me about experiments in the 60s where they deliberately overpressurized a containment building and blew the dome 1,400 feet into the air.
So you could have a steam explosion, as I described earlier, where the overpressurization.
The NRC thought they would just have this minor leak, but you could have a sudden release of radionucleides into the atmosphere and cause the death of 130,000 people.
The NRC has a problem with keeping up on their safety issues, some of them not taken care of for over 10 years, thermo lag being one of them, which is a fire retardant.
And what can happen during an accident is you can lose the ability to control the reactor because the wires and so forth that lead to the control systems can melt from the high pressures and temperatures.
Those wires have never been tested under accident conditions, so they certainly don't meet that type of safety specification.
Yeah, I can't remember the name, but a B-52 crashed about seven miles from Tule, Greenland.
The fire melted the ice, and they lost at least one nuclear bomb, which went to the bottom of the ocean there, which wouldn't have been that deep.
Nonetheless, they couldn't find it immediately.
And in 1979, when Greenland was about to become independent from Denmark, one of the conditions was that the United States was going to try to find that nuclear bomb, which they did.
Of course, we were hearing all these reports, and I have pictures of the Navy SEAL divers, and all of these things didn't exist.
Well, what we think happened was somebody associated with the cult was involved in disabling equipment and possibly even triggering the accident at the time that they wanted.
Yes, there was a cult in the Harrisburg area even in the mid-70s, which was very surprising because nobody would have thought, especially in your own hometown, that there's a cult living right next door to everyday people.
And I had a Boy Scout troop that met only half a block away from where this cult lived.
And the cult leader was arrested for sexually molesting children.
And he was arrested on the 10th of April 1975 and put in state penitentiary for more than 20 years, where he's still located now.
And what they did before the accident was issue warnings to some of their members, and some of their members tipped off other relatives to leave Harrisburg on or before April of 1979.
One of the relatives sent a portion of the letter to the Patson Herald newspaper who printed a portion of the letter.
By the way, the owner and writer editor for the Passion Herald was the Deputy Attorney General's wife, a former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania.
This paper has read a letter written by, and it names the lady, to her sister who lives in this area, warning of a tragedy to take place on or before April of 1979.
The letter tells her sister to leave the area and describes the area of future tragedy.
Then it gives the geographic locations, including the area visible from the Dauphin County Courthouse.
The letter warns of danger and says, please do not take this letter lightly.
This paper strongly points out that there are nuts in the world who make predictions and then work hard at making tragedy happen.
And then it says, we asked the district attorney's office, the police department, and Three Mile Island to redouble their security and make a determined effort to clean up this local cult.
Now notice the only place that she mentioned was Three Mile Island.
People called and complained and said that this was in the Packers and Herald.
They knew about it.
But in their reports, they claim, the NRC, I should say, claims that these rumors are unfounded.
In fact, on the 1st of April, the FBI reported to newspaper reporters, the Patriot News, that the rumors of sabotage have been discounted by the FBI and that they said it was a product of misunderstanding of information.
The very next day, according to the Rogovan Commission, the FBI opened a sabotage investigation and the day before they said the investigations closed.
So somebody was lying or another mistake was made.
While we're on the subject of waste, this is taking you pretty far afield, but I live out here in the Nevada desert near Mercury and the Test Sai Area 51, this area, and not all that far from an area where they're talking about storing permanent waste.
And every nuclear reactor, I guess, in the country now has an awful lot of waste waiting, doesn't it?
And I hesitate to ask you publicly, but since you're going to talk about it, I will ask you.
If you, Scott, were a bad guy and you wanted to sabotage a nuclear plant and cause an accident the magnitude of or greater than Three Mile Island, how hard would it be?
Using publicly available documents, I could formulate a dozen different plans, some of them with stealth, some of them with commandos, others with bombs.
But maybe the simplest one to do would be to disable the diesel generators and to take down the off-site power supply lines to the plant.
And in fact, of all the 150 incidents that I know of, only one of those was committed by outsiders.
Yes, in some plants, the containment might remain intact.
A three-mile island, that had to be designed to withstand the impact of a 747.
But at other nuclear plants around the country, the San Diego National Laboratories found in 1984 that they could have a terrible release of radiation from a small charge at close setback distances or from a larger but still reasonable size charge, that is to say a truck bomb, set at large setback distances.
In fact, greater than the protected area for most plants.
Suppose I had an armor-penetrating missile, something designed to kill a tank, say, which unfortunately these sorts of things are available to people who look for them.
Well, Edward Teller suggested that we should build all nuclear plants underground.
Many years ago, he said that we at least need to improve security by installing the vehicle barriers at the proper setback distances.
Now, following the TMI intrusion, the NRC finally decided that they were going to install vehicle barriers.
But they installed them without the use of bomb blast expertise, engineering.
They just went on suggestions from Army engineers, the Corps of Engineers.
And so what we have at Three Mile Island, which is one of the smallest plants in the country, you could still drive a truck bomb through the North Gate past the vehicle barrier, which is open 50% of the day.
Well, there have been many threats against nuclear plants already, including World Trade Center terrorists who trained 30 miles from Three Mile Island and threatened to attack nuclear targets with 150 suicide soldiers.
They did a nighttime mock assault on an electrical substation at their training camp.
The FBI knew about this.
Within three weeks of the intrusion at Three Mile Island, the World Trade Center was bombed.
The FBI did not contact Three Mile Island about the proximity of the training camp.
Had they done so, as I requested, I wish that they had activated the contingency plan for truck bomb attacks, which the NRC required plants to come up with a, excuse me, it wasn't a requirement, it was a suggestion in a generic letter that each plant should develop a contingency plan for truck bomb attacks.
And when I found out about the training camp, I immediately called the NRC's Emergency Response Center and requested that they took all my information about the FBI raid on the camp, which took place in June of 1993.
And they called me back 90 minutes later to say that the information I had given them was accurate, they were familiar with me from my testimonies, and that they would seriously consider activating the plan.
If we can't trust our government and the FBI to communicate properly, then we as citizens have to take things in our own hands and try to affect change.
There have been attacks on nuclear plants already.
In fact, we destroyed the Iraqi nuclear plant during the Gulf War.
And a few days after the Three Mile Island accident, so-called, the French construction aid company had the reactor being built in France, bound for Iraq, was destroyed by the Mossad.
And the Mossad used the Three Mile Island accident as a cover, and they telephoned the press over there and said that we, an environmentalist group, have destroyed this to try to prevent future Harrisburg.
But it was actually an intelligence operation from Israel.
Really?
So Iraq definitely has incentives to kill us and do so with a nuclear attack such as this.
the position for social responsibility call nuclear plant landmines waiting to be stepped upon Then, you know, in my mind, all I can see is this horrible tragedy occurring and Lots of good Senate testimony by people like yourself after the fact.
That's what I'm worried about.
After the fact.
All right, Scott, hold on.
We're going to break here at the top of the hour.
When we come back, you might get a bit of that testimony that you gave ready and we'll play it on the air.
My guest is Scott Portsline from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
He has been investigating the accident, question mark, we'll treat it fairly, at Three Mile Island for many, many years, ever since it has occurred.
He has testified about it before the NRC.
He has testified before the U.S. Senate in Pennsylvania.
Not U.S. Senate, but the Pennsylvania Senate.
And I'm reading now from his website.
And you can get there by going to my website.
We've got a link up there right now.
And if you want to see an oh my god photograph, there is a barrier gate.
You've got to see that photograph.
Trust me.
You go up to my website.
You'll see a link right over to his.
Reading from his, the threat of nuclear terrorism most often brings images of a city totally flattened and incinerated by a nuclear bomb.
While the press continues to focus on the problems associated with stolen weapons-grade nuclear materials, particularly those originating from the former Soviet Union, the greater threat may actually be an attack against a nuclear power plant.
Terrorists would be able to skip the formidable task of assembling or stealing a nuclear bomb.
There are more than a few terrorist experts who believe that a nuclear power plant will be successfully assaulted before terrorists ever have the ability to deliver a nuclear weapon.
Considering the fact that a nuclear plant houses more than a thousand times, I said a thousand times the radiation has released in an atomic burst, the magnitude of a single attack could reach beyond 100,000 deaths and the immediate loss of tens of billions of dollars.
The land and properties destroyed, your insurance will not cover it, by the way, would remain useless for decades and would become a stark monument reminding the world of the terrorist ideology.
And that's just a portion of what's on his website.
I suggest you go take a look.
And as I said, he referred to a photograph of a barrier called the North Gate.
And it says, why won't this NRC-approved vehicle barrier prevent a terrorist truck bomb attack?
And we will ask that in a moment.
Back now to Scott Porzline.
Scott, just theoretically, if everything had gone instead of in a lucky direction, but it had gone wrong, and there had been a full meltdown through the containment, what would have happened?
That was discussed in a report by a man named Rat Newson, who right before the accident, a week before, withdrew his report stating that he could not determine whether it was accurate and that the chance of these consequences were greater or less.
But the consequences could be the state of an area the size of the state of Pennsylvania, coincidentally, could be rendered useless and could kill 130,000 people.
The American people, and I'm one of them, have always thought that unlike Chernobyl and the Russian reactors with poor containment, that our containment facilities for nuclear reactors were, you know, I don't like to use the word fail-safe, but that we were protected, that nothing like that really could ever happen with an American nuclear reactor.
It could happen, but not for the same reasons that it happened in Chernobyl.
In fact, I just talked to a reactor engineer today, Dr. Richard Webb, who was telling me about experiments in the 60s where they deliberately overpressurized a containment building and blew the dome 1,400 feet into the air.
So you could have a steam explosion, as I described earlier, or the overpressurization.
The NRC thought they would just have this minor leak, but you could have a sudden release of radionucleides into the atmosphere and cause the death of 130,000 people.
The NRC had a problem with keeping up on their safety issues, some of them not taken care of for over 10 years, thermo lag being one of them, which is a fire retardant.
And what can happen during an accident is you can lose the ability to control the reactor Because the wires and so forth that lead to the control systems can melt from the high pressures and temperatures.
Those wires have never been tested under accident conditions, so they certainly don't meet that type of safety specification.
Yeah, I can't remember the name, but a B-52 crashed about seven miles from Tully, Greenland.
The fire melted the ice, and they lost at least one nuclear bomb, which went to the bottom of the ocean there, which wouldn't have been that deep.
Nonetheless, they couldn't find it immediately.
And in 1979, when Greenland was about to become independent from Denmark, one of the conditions was that the United States was going to try to find that nuclear bomb, which they did.
Of course, we were hearing all these reports, and I have pictures of the Navy SEAL divers, and all of these things didn't exist.
You know, this was all a figment of our imagination.
Well, what we think happened was somebody associated with the cult was involved in disabling equipment and possibly even triggering the accident at the time that they wanted.
Yes, there was a cult in the Harrisburg area even in the mid-70s, which was very surprising because nobody would have thought, especially in your own hometown, that there's a cult living right next door to everyday people.
And I had a Boy Scout troop that met only half a block away from where this cult lived.
And the cult leader was arrested for sexually molesting children.
And he was arrested on the 10th of April 1975 and put in state penitentiary for more than 20 years, where he's still located now.
And what they did before the accident was issue warnings to some of their members, and some of their members tipped off other relatives to leave Harrisburg on or before April of 1979.
One of the relatives sent a portion of the letter to the Paxson Herald newspaper who printed a portion of the letter.
By the way, the owner and writer, editor for the Paxson Herald was the Deputy Attorney General's wife, a former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania.
This paper has read a letter written by, and names the lady, to her sister who lives in this area, warning of a tragedy that takes place on or before April of 1979.
The letter tells her sister to leave the area and describes the area of future tragedy.
Then it gives a geographic locations, including the area visible from the Dauphin County Courthouse.
The letter warns of danger and says, please do not take this letter lightly.
This paper strongly points out that there are nuts in the world who make predictions and then work hard at making tragedy happen.
And then it says, we asked the district attorney's office, the police department, and Three Mile Island to redouble their security and make a determined effort to clean up this local cult.
Now notice the only place that she mentioned was Three Mile Island.
People called and complained and said that this was in the Patson Herald.
They knew about it.
But in their reports, they claim, the NRC, I should say, claims that these rumors are unfounded.
In fact, on the 1st of April, the FBI reported to newspaper reporters, the Patriot News, that the rumors of sabotage have been discounted by the FBI and that they said it was a product of misunderstanding of information.
The very next day, according to the Rogevin Commission, the FBI opened a sabotage investigation and the day before they said the investigations closed.
So somebody was lying or another mistake was made.
While we're on the subject of waste, this is taking you pretty far afield, but I live out here in the Nevada desert near Mercury and the Tesai Area 51, this area, and not all that far from an area where they're talking about storing permanent Waste and every nuclear reactor, I guess, in the country now has an awful lot of waste waiting, doesn't it?
And I hesitate to ask you publicly, but since you're going to talk about it, I will ask you.
If you, Scott, were a bad guy and you wanted to sabotage a nuclear plant and cause an accident the magnitude of or greater than Three Mile Island, how hard would it be?
Using publicly available documents, I could formulate a dozen different plans, some of them with stealth, some of them with commandos, others with bombs.
But maybe the simplest one to do would be to disable the diesel generators and to take down the off-site power supply lines to the plant.
And in fact, of all the 150 incidents that I know of, only one of those was committed by outsiders.
Yes, in some plants, the containment might remain intact.
At 3 Ma Allen, that had to be designed to withstand the impact of a 747.
But at other nuclear plants around the country, the San Diego National Laboratories found in 1984 that they could have a terrible release of radiation from a small charge at close setback distances or from a larger but still reasonable size charge, that is to say, a truck bomb, set at large setback distances.
In fact, greater than the protected area for most plants.
Suppose I had an armor-penetrating missile, something designed to kill a tank, say, which unfortunately these sorts of things are available to people who look for them.
Well, Edward Teller suggested that we should build all nuclear plants underground.
Many years ago, he said that we at least need to improve security by installing the vehicle barriers at the proper setback distances.
Now, following the TMI intrusion, the NRC finally decided that they were going to install vehicle barriers.
But they installed them without the use of bomb blast expertise engineering.
They just went on suggestions from Army engineers, the Corps of Engineers.
And so what we have at Three Mile Island, which is one of the smallest plants in the country, you could still drive a truck bomb through the North Gate past the vehicle barrier, which is open 50% of the day.
Well, there have been many threats against nuclear plants already, including the World Trade Center terrorists, who trained 30 miles from Three Mile Island and threatened to attack nuclear targets with 150 suicide soldiers.
They did a nighttime mock assault on an electrical substation at their training camp.
The FBI knew about this.
Within three weeks of the intrusion at Three Mile Island, the World Trade Center was bombed.
The FBI did not contact Three Mile Island about the proximity of the training camp.
Had they done so, as I requested, I wish that they had activated the contingency plan for truck bomb attacks, which the NRC required plants to come up with, excuse me, it wasn't a requirement, it was a suggestion in a generic letter that each plant should develop a contingency plan for truck bomb attacks.
And when I found out about the training camp, I immediately called the NRC's Emergency Response Center and requested that they took all my information about the FBI raid on the camp, which took place in June of 1993.
And they called me back 90 minutes later to say that the information I had given them was accurate.
I don't know a great deal about it, but there's definitely a danger of the fuel melting and heating up and catching on fire and more releases.
They're having troubles with the dust blowing out of the sarcophagus.
And unfortunately, the Ukrainian government continues to hold this over our heads, asking us for more money.
And they promise to shut down the other Chernobyl reactors.
We give them money, then they reopen the reactors.
And a friend of mine just did visit Chernobyl, and also a doctor from Penn State University visited Chernobyl, and she set off a radiation alarm when she came back to the United States.
All right, not a good place to be, and something awful could still occur there.
I'm much more concerned, though, about right here at home.
Here's somebody who says, please ask your guests to comment on the following.
It almost appears at times like our government seems to purposely allow these terrible things to occur in order to support crackdowns, which of course could result in calls for temporary, but never-to-be rescinded infringements of our constitutional rights.
I have a hard time believing that that happens, but what I know about radiation experiments and corn flakes that are radioactive and things like this, then nothing would surprise me.
In fact, if the FBI spent more time on the telephone calling the NRC in Three Mile Island about the location in the training camp, they might have to spend less time tapping our telephones.
Well, in actuality, we are all downwind of some hazard or another, whether it's a toxic waste site or a nuclear plant.
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission for years has dismissed our need for potassium, I think it's called potassium iodide, and that would prohibit the uptake of radioactive iodine into our thyroid glands.
That's the only thing that you can do to protect yourself besides running away from the direction of the relief.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Scott Portsline.
unidentified
Hi.
Hi.
I'm calling from north of Virginia.
Thank you, Art, for having Scott on.
Sure.
I lived in the 20-mile radius of Three Mile Island when its occurrence was our experience.
And I wanted to mention that we left the area and got to Springfield, Virginia in the D.C. area and felt relieved that we had gotten there only to learn we would have needed to be beyond Atlanta to have been safe had the worst scenario been the case.
So the reports about Maine sound quite believable to my ears and I hope that everyone who might be tempted to be critical of this gentleman and his courageous efforts to let the American people know what indeed the realities are.
I hope that somehow, perhaps through your wonderful, wonderful office of art, we might know how we can address this nationwide.
Something in the future that we might be able to do and have the impetus through your program even.
We need to contact our legislators, state and federal legislators.
Arlen Specter, he is my senator, and he's quite a bit involved with terrorism and the abuse of power with the FBI.
Yet I sat in his office and had to basically threaten to expose their lack of concern in handling the documents I was giving them with exposure to national news media.
And that was the only way they were even willing to listen to what I had to say, but it still went in one ear and out the other.
So it's very difficult.
That's why I'm going to the public.
The public needs to do the work now and contact their legislators and let people know that this is a vital matter of national security.
And I want to remind everybody in the audience right now, if you go to my website, we've got a link to Scott's.
And he's got some very chilling photographs up there of nuclear power plants and of a gate that's open about half the day.
Just wait till you see some of those photographs.
And back to the lines, I guess.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Scott Portsline.
unidentified
Hi.
Hi, good evening, Art.
This is Pete in Portland.
And I would like to talk about the Trojan nuclear power plant here that has been used Turn your radio off, please.
Yeah, I'm sorry, my remote decided to die.
The Trojan nuclear power plant was decommissioned a few years ago because of cracked secondary fueling tubes.
And they're now planning on taking the whole reactor, filling it with foam and concrete, and then shipping it by barge up to Hanford.
But what I'm worried about is the fact that there's still almost certainly spent fuel rods in a cooling pool at the Trojan site that are ostensibly going to stay there because there's no site yet selected to ship any fuel rods to.
The nuclear industry is the only industry that was allowed to build the house before they could design the outhouse.
In other words, they couldn't come up with an explanation for what to do with the waste.
And the expense fuel is very dirty and much more highly radioactive than brand new fuel units.
There's been crashes of trucks carrying new fuel.
And just last week, there was a crash in Minnesota carrying a radioactive turbine diaphragm.
Or no, that was actually the blade from the turbine.
It crashed right into a bridge.
The crash that happened with the new fuel, the driver didn't even have a valid driver's license.
So I followed a, just last year, I followed a truck hauling nuclear waste down Route 81 through Harrisburg in a 55-mile-hour zone, doing 72 miles per hour.
Got all the license number on the cab, the trailer, everything I could get.
Stopped a sheriff, reported it to the sheriff that he needs to catch up with this truck or radio head and reported it to the NRC and Department of Transportation.
I can't answer that question, and I don't know a great deal about the safety aspects of nuclear plants.
I've spent many years going into great detail about sabotage.
But What I do know is I see reports every week from the NRC saying that certain equipment, this or that plant, and the names of plants all around the country, have not had sufficient checks for a certain piece of equipment against an earthquake, and things will shake apart.
In fact, there is just a fine issued today against the nuclear power plant.
I can't name it, so I won't.
Where they altered their plan and did not take into account what would happen if the dam on the river broke due to an earthquake and the water level went down and they would lose their river water intake because of that earthquake.
I did say that earlier, that that's what stuck open.
And there was a great deal of confusion, and they did not know which to believe, as I mentioned earlier in this conversation, that they were looking at their gauges and they were giving false indications.
If they had known, if Three Mile Island hadn't falsified leak rate, which was the first federal offense ever convicted against a nuclear plant, if they had paid attention to their temperatures on the other side of the pore valve, the high temperatures indicated that they had hot coolant going through that valve and they should have known it was still open.
Yeah, I've heard about it myself, but the simple fact is if you met the Beverly Hillbilly and talked to him, you know it's just a simple, he messed up.
Well, to me, frankly, it doesn't sound like the two of you disagree very much at all.
And on the most important point of all, frankly, and that is with respect to the possibility of terrorism and how open we are to the possibility of terrorism, whatever occurred at Three Mile Island, we agree it occurred.
And so if you agree with Scott that we are open to the possibility of nuclear sabotage and a plant going up with 100,000 people dying, then that's what we're here to talk about.
And there'll be more of it in a moment.
My guest is Scott Portsline.
For 13 years, he has studied the Three Mile Island accident slash sabotage, whatever it was, that's controversial.
Not controversial, apparently, is the threat to our nuclear facilities from those who would do us damage.
And there are many of those people in the world.
If you have questions for Scott on these subjects, we'll do another hour coming up.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 28, 1997.
He's been looking into Three Mile Island for 13 years, covering more than 30,000 pages of documents, testimony, memorandums.
He has testified to the U.S. Senate, Pennsylvania House of Representatives, the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards, following a vehicle intrusion at Three Mile Island.
He has his own website.
We have a link to that website.
And if you want to see something that will chill your bones, go on up to my website now and link, you'll see the link to Scott's right there.
I just, you know, was just recently taking a canoe trip up Crystal River here in Central Florida.
And what's going on down here, like, no one even talks about, you know.
Well, what is hurricane?
Well, no, no, no, with the manatees.
Well, the hurricanes, of course, but with the manatees, you know, they come here in the winter to, you know, go through the outflow and hang out.
But, you know, that's just, you know, good for them.
What's going on down here is like no one even thinks about, you know, and what happened in Three Mile Island, if it happens here, what kind of ecological disaster is that, sir?
Another interesting thing that just happened in Florida, August 14th last year, an insider, a co-worker at the St. Lucci plant, put some sort of glue-like substance into switches that you need to turn a key, a key lock switch, and they rendered that equipment disabled on a backup panel.
If the plant had some sort of serious problem and they were losing control of the reactor and they needed to use the backup control panel, it was unavailable and it could have had dire consequences.
There's a $10,000 reward if anybody knows who did that.
I'm convinced there's going to be another accident, too.
But I can't think of anything more terrifying than one successful attack against a U.S. plant because automatically you think, well, what about the plant I live near?
And the problem was the core that they loaded in, there was an anomaly in it.
And one gentleman had calculated for it and said, I can't prove it, but we shouldn't start up.
They overrode him, and it got away from him for about two and a half minutes.
And because it's only about 4% nuclear fuel rich, instead of having a blow-up, it petered out.
They tried it a second time, and it got away from them again.
And it took them, they can the guy, it took them two and a half years to repeat his calculations and say, well, he might have been right.
But they went ahead and made this little jargonese report, put it in, buried in our local paper, and the NRC approved it so that nobody except a nuclear engineer would understand what that really meant.
Now, the reason why this is so dangerous is one of my friends discovered on a routine inspection that the fire doors, the big doors that slam shut when an event happens, are defective.
They have not been corrected yet, but he was demoted and demoted and demoted and would have been fired except he got a lawyer.
And then finally, he left and got a job in a computer chip industry.
And another one of my friends, these are good Christian people.
They worked in the nuclear industry for over 10 years each.
He had found out that there's a little catalytic converter type thing that if there's a release of, oh, tritium gas, you know, a nuclear radioactive gas, right, that it sucks that through this little catalytic converter and sequesters all of it.
Well, he did the calculations on it and realized that just having one of them wasn't sufficient.
If there was a big event, it could melt down and radiation would be released to the outside.
This happens on a monthly basis, by the way, where engineers realize these things, and most of the time the utilities quiet them and demote them and punish them.
First, let me say I love your show, and I just got on the net, and you're my number one bookmark.
Thank you.
I work in a hydro generation plant, and I'm going to say right off the bat, I don't know a whole lot about nuclear reactors or the way that that is done.
But I can give testimony to what an earlier caller, the nuclear guy, was saying about protection equipment.
In the electric industry, there are, especially in my job, there are two different types of human protection or noting of protection equipment.
One is electrical, and the other is mechanical.
They have what they call a mechanical tagging list.
And what we have to do, what that means is, is when a valve is closed or a mechanical device is altered in any way, changed from an on position, for example, to an off position or an open to a closed position, a tag is always written out and a form is filled out indicating for the next person coming along, in case the equipment is down for a long period of time, what the position is of that piece of equipment.
Oh, there's documents that say that many of the documents, original plant accident documents, are gone and they should have been kept there.
But what happened was the NRC didn't send out its investigators for two weeks, so they lost a lot of that.
In fact, I'll read it to you from the official report.
The formal IE investigation, IE means Office of Investigation and Enforcement, into the TMI accident was not initiated at the site until April 10th, 1979, two weeks after the accident.
Members of the investigation team have stated that a trained investigator should have been dispatched with the initial response team to organize and retain portions of the supportive evidence, notes, logs, etc., which were lost during the initial days of the accident.
In fact, they also say that the investigators had no training in investigative techniques or knowledge of the laws of evidence or criminal Procedures.
Well, they wouldn't have known sabotage or criminal evidence if it hit them between the eyes, it seems like.
Somebody could argue: look, Three Mile Island is ancient history.
And to some degree, I would agree with that.
And I understand that you've had reason to investigate it for many years.
I'm concerned with now, with all of these millions of people who live close to plants.
And if there's not sufficient security at those plants, if somebody with a truck bomb or a handheld rocket of some kind could create an accident, accident hell, create an act of sabotage, terrorism that would kill 100,000 people, then we need to do something about it.
There's a report of drug use or alcohol use every week.
There's been murder committed at nuclear plants, suicide.
Reactor engineers have sabotaged fuel.
In 40 days, exactly 40 days after the Three Mile Island accident, reactor operators at Surrey, Virginia sabotage new fuel assemblies by dumping something like Drano into the water.
I'm not what is conveniently and arbitrarily called a conspiracy nut or anything.
And I want to preface what I'm about to say with a disclaimer.
I am not encouraging anyone to smoke.
So now we got that out of the way.
I've been, this is partly research, 50% research and 50% woman's intuition.
Looking at the timeline of Three Mile Island, as well as all the tasks in various facilities that are leaking radiation, by the way, material, I'm noticing this suddenly, you mentioned how there was inconclusive evidence, so they drew all this stuff out of court.
And yet look how quickly they came up with conclusive evidence about secondhand smoke.
What I think is that they are using that as a mask, okay, because of the timeline after Three Mile Island, all of this junk that's coming out into the atmosphere that they're not telling us about.
Better that we blame secondhand smoke than radiation, and we sue the cigarette companies instead of the government.
The reason I say that is we've got like a lot less people smoking in this country now, and yet the incidence of leukemia and lung cancer has gone dramatically up.
Yes, and so what my suggestion is that they are using the secondhand smoke conclusively, whereas they throw the other evidence out about the radiation, won't even listen to it.
There's something highly suspicious about that.
And if you look back at the time when they start leaning on the secondhand smoke, it coincides with right after Three Mile Island, plus all of this waste material that's escaping in so many facilities.
It may not just be a simple conspiracy, but the timing does reflect the fact that there's been a great deal of radiation released around the world with the atmospheric bomb testing going back into the 40s, which had to be stopped.
That's how serious it was.
You know, the military can get away with a lot of things, but when they make the military change their procedures, it had to be serious.
When they used to do testing, the Rochester, New York Kodak plant actually had film destroyed from fallout, at least on one occasion that I know of.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Scott Portsline.
Hello.
unidentified
Good morning, Art and Scott.
Hi.
You know, I accept the concern for all this nuclear waste that's left around.
I've myself been to Rancho Steika a few times, which is a closed nuclear facility, and they run you through the gauntlet coming and going to see if anything's coming in or going out.
What about all the waste that's been dumped into the oceans?
Yeah, I believe that problem was with the control rods.
They're called control rods, not cooling rods.
And they go down into the core to interfere with the transmission of the neutrons.
That's one of the methods of stopping and controlling the chain reaction.
And I believe the problem, I didn't follow up on it, but I believe the problem was the drop times of control rods.
In other words, these are controlled with electric drive motors, and gravity will allow them to drop very quickly into the core.
They must meet a guideline of how quickly they drop.
And over a period of time, they develop some sort of crud, and they can't drop quickly enough.
So I think that's what that problem was.
And I'm sure, well, I'm not sure, but you would hope by now that they have it at an acceptable level without having to re-analyze the condition.
And sometimes what the nuclear industry will do is say, okay, we're going to change where that guideline is into our favor so they can continue operating.
I believe it was 1986, a group of saboteurs, it's the only incident I know of in the United States where they weren't members of the nuclear industry sabotaging a plant, they deliberately, well, I've got to not say how they did it.
Of course, it's not too hard to figure out how to take down a power line, but they did it in a stealthy manner with vehicles, and they lost three of the four off-site power supply lines to the plant.
They did it at a time when the reactors were all shut down, so I guess they knew what they were doing.
They were trying to send a message that they were against nuclear power, and I think that's a very poor way to do it.
Oh, I think that hydrogen explosion was one of the dry casks.
There was a very minor hydrogen burn.
It could be classified as an explosion, and it had to do with welding to topple in the cask.
I'm pretty sure that's what you're referring to.
There actually Was a hydrogen explosion in the Three Mile Island accident with all the release of hydrogen from the cladding as it melts.
The cladding contains the fuel pellets, releases a tremendous amount of hydrogen.
They thought they had a huge hydrogen bubble in there that could blow the whole thing to pieces.
And it burned at the pressure of 28 pounds per square inch.
So it's not much of an explosion, but it was classified as an explosion.
And by the way, the control room operators heard that bump, and they thought it was a valve closing or some sort of equipment operating.
They weren't sure what it was.
But what that does indicate is if you have a commando-style attack, and let's say they're doing it through stealth, someone could use a small charge to gain access to some of the locked doors, and they could blow the door open.
Navy SEAL team, and this was brought up at one of the hearings, could render these locked doors useless within 15 seconds.
But the NRC has recently seen fit to do away with the locked door requirements, and now players can leave their doors unlocked if they wish to.
You have to have a lot of time spent going security, checking these people and using the metal detectors and logging them in buildings and out of buildings.
And it takes a lot of time and slows down work.
They don't want to slow down work.
They want to be more competitive with the other electrical generators.
I believe they were talking about what can you do to protect yourself.
Uh-huh.
And there's potassium iodide, which the President's Commission, after the Fremont Holland accident, suggested that we should all have that made available to us.
It's very cheap.
And just last month, or within the last couple of weeks, I forget which it was, a lawyer for the NRC, again, is recommending that this be distributed in our nation.
unidentified
Okay, thank you.
My main thing I wanted to ask was when I was between like the fifth and the eighth grade, I lived in Las Vegas, Nevada.
And I remember my bedroom lighting up brighter than sunlight at about four or five o'clock in the morning.
And then later when the sun came up, we walked outside and we looked at this mushroom cloud going over to the east.
And I wondered if one of these explodes, what's the difference?
Do you know, can you compare what it is like compared to what we were exposed to at that time?
A nuclear detonation of the type that we had above ground here in Nevada, not far from where I am, compared to the possibility of a breach or a major breach at a nuclear power plant?
That could only happen at the enrichment plants, and they're very careful with that, although they do have problems and they do have fires every now and then.
The primary difference is the initial burst, if it were above ground, the direct shine of radiation would be an enormous amount, and then for the first few hours, it's quite a large amount of radiation.
But at a nuclear power plant, you have more than a thousand times the radioactive force term contained in these plants compared to one single burst.
So over the long run, especially, there's just no comparison to the radioactive damage that can happen.
So that's what is hard to get into a lot of people's head.
He brought up diesel generators and basically mentioned that you could disable a unit by taking out the diesel generators and the power coming into the plant.
The plant would have to be in trouble to some degree, and they must not have any other source of power, which could be a second or third reactor at the plant.
unidentified
A second or third reactor?
Well, they have another source of power that you haven't brought up.
They only last for a short period of time and cannot operate the heavy pumps that would be necessary to move water contained in 12 and 14 inch pipes and even larger.
unidentified
Absolutely.
You're absolutely correct.
My problem is you can't wait until a diesel generator starts.
You have to have batteries online so that if you do lose power from the outside, you have to have the batteries to keep the control room active.
His point was they can't supply enough current to run a pump.
unidentified
And he's correct.
And that's where I, you almost have to have a loss of the you know, well, coming back, you talked a little bit about truck bumps and things like that.
The problem I'm having here is seeing how you can you almost have to have a loss of the emergency feed water, the cooling water, to actually have a serious problem.
I have a bit of information that may be pertinent to some of the statements made today, like radiation sickness, I understand, can be very well taken care of with a simple miso soup, which was determined after we dropped some bombs on Japan.
And as far as storing nuclear waste, I don't see how anything with a half-life of 100,000 years could possibly be called economical.
Yeah, you raise an incredibly good point, even a moral issue.
Is it right for our generation to benefit from electricity generated by a nuclear plant that will require our future generations' grandchildren we couldn't even count to pay to maintain the waste?
So, in other words, they're paying for 100,000 years plus for the electricity we generated now?
I drive a tanker, and about a year and a half ago, I delivered down in the southeast to a nuclear power plant.
Now, you know, a lot of these trucking companies are hurting for people, and I could imagine them hiring some people that have some untoward intentions toward our country.
And I noticed passing the first security gate how so-called easy it was to get into this power plant.
I mean, of course, I had an appointment.
They expected me.
But if I had unperverted intentions toward our beloved country, I could have done some serious damage, you know, because I had to leave my truck for about five minutes or so, and I was less than 1,000 feet from these.
I don't know, I guess aren't these discharges where they look like mushrooms when you cut them off, the little stems left in the ground that spew up this smoke?
That sounds like something to do with the pumping of the intake water supply through the river, lake, ocean, etc.
unidentified
Yeah, well, you know, they put me through this rigorous screening.
I had to go through a metal detector.
They searched my truck.
In fact, the lady that was searching my truck said that, you know, some truck drivers come through with a bad attitude and they figure, well, heck, you know, this is all we got to do all day, and you're trying to get out of here.
But, you know, it was just amazing how I had one person that was literally with me the whole time.
Well, Scott, do you send out any information to people or do you want to make a recommendation to people or do you have a contact number or address or what?
Well, I'd start to get a little bit comfortable around that distance, but the truth is, you know, the size of the state, the size of Pennsylvania, I think that's 240 miles across.
I'm not even sure of that.
But judging from the turnpike signs when I'm in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh is about that far away.
Okay, just before 7 o'clock in the morning on the 7th of February, 1993, a 31-year-old man suffering from mental illness drove alongside the river towards the plant and goes past the unarmed guards at the north gate.
You'll see the picture of the gate now with the new vehicle barrier.
At that point, he's breached the outer level of security called the owner-controlled area.
He continues across the bridge and crashes through a closed-fenced gate, and he's now breached the inner, the second area called the protected area.
His car pushes the bottom of the gate upward, pivoting upward, allows his car to pass through, and he drives another 190 feet or so and literally crashes right through the turbine building door.
The door falls down on his car.
His car stops 63 feet inside the turbine building, and he now exits the vehicle.
He hides in the darkened condenser, the darkened belly of the condenser pit, and for nearly four hours before he's caught.
That's Scott Ports Line in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
Open lines just ahead.
That's exactly what it is.
Top of the morning, everybody.
I'm Mark Bell.
A couple of hours of absolutely open lines yet ahead.
And I'm going to read something to you again because so many of you have requested it.
It is with regard to Telstar 401.
That was a major geosynchronous satellite that appears to be gone.
And what I'm reading to you, so that you know, is from Stanton Friedman.
Stanton is a nuclear physicist.
It was printed through the J. Allen Heinek Center for UFO Studies.
Scientists at AT ⁇ T are still scratching their heads, wondering what might have happened to their multi-million dollar geosynchronous communications satellite, Telstar 401, that disappeared from its Earth orbit early Saturday.
Let me repeat that.
Disappeared from its Earth orbit Saturday.
No signs of impending problems were detected.
All circuits were functioning normally when suddenly all signals coming from the bird simply stopped.
The North American Air Defense Command, located in Colorado Springs, Colorado, did report a large unknown object near the position of Telstar 401 moments before the satellite quit working.
Quote, it looked like a large meteor closing in on 401, said NORAD Commander Major General John Yancey Jr.
However, on the next sweep of the tracking radar, there was nothing there.
No meteor, no satellite, no debris.
We don't know what happened, but if the two bodies had collided, we would expect to see some debris left behind.
NORAD is responsible for tracking objects in space and knows the location of tons of space debris as small as a few centimeters in size.
And that, folks, is from Stanton Friedman.
Other sources are indicating there was some sort of solar flare or storm that knocked out the satellite.
But I must tell you, in similar, very nearby geosynchronous orbits, there are many, many satellites.
And such a storm, it seems to me, would have affected them as well.
Now, I know Stanton quite well, and I'll try and get in touch with him and find out more about this for you.
But it is most curious.
And I have heard no report indicating that 401 is still there, but simply radio dead, or television dead, as you wish.
The Simpson jury finally got the O.J. Simpson case.
They retired, deliberated for about 90 minutes, did not reach a verdict, and we'll resume that tomorrow.
A little bit of a scare earlier in the day.
It was very interesting.
I was watching CNN, and a couple of jurors were called into the judges' chambers, and there was some speculation that the whole trial might be down the tubes.
That was not the case, close, but not the case.
President Clinton held a news conference yesterday in which he admitted that with regard to campaign finance, there were mistakes made.
And you can translate that in the way it ought to be translated when a politician says mistakes were made.
It's usually pretty serious.
The FBI carried out coast-to-coast raids as part of an undercover U.S. investigation of computer software privacy, make that piracy, a code named Cyber Strike, which probably did not involve a lot of privacy.
The search warrants allege violations of U.S. code against copyright infringement, and we all know a lot of that is going on on the internet.
In Peru, they are blasting the rebels holding the hostages now with music.
And it seems like in every, and apparently, let's see, what kind of music?
Oh, there was a musical battle.
And it seems as though in every kind of standoff of this sort, they end up doing exactly that, blasting music at the people, and it never works.
It was done in Panama, was done in Waco, now is being done in Peru, and music never seems to make anybody give up, ever.
So I wonder why they do it.
That two-foot diameter metal ball that came down in Texas, according to a caller, now is said to be part of some U.S. rocket.
And if that was the case, then you would think the Air Force would keep the peace.
Maybe not.
I don't know.
First they said it was part of somebody's propane tank or something, and now they're saying it was part of a rocket.
Well, which is it?
A propane tank would explode, and you would presume it would throw something some distance, but certainly the object that we've got photographed on the webpage looks as though it re-entered the atmosphere, and now the story apparently is that it did.
Interesting shift.
So, in a moment, we're going to go to open lines.
Everybody hang tight.
Anything you want to talk about, fair game.
That's the way it works here.
We don't screen calls.
We just pick them up.
So, belt in and prepare yourself.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from January 28th, 1997.
At the time we made that movie at the Old Columbia Studios, it was 10 days prior.
The release of the film was 10 days prior to the Three Mile Island accident.
And three days after we released the film, nuclear physicist came on the news and said that the chances of something occurring like we depicted in that movie, the chances were one in 10 million.
Well, seven days after he made the statement, the Three Mile Island accident occurred, which was far worse.
But boy, I'll tell you, if somebody really sets out to, I mean, you worry about somebody bringing a nuclear weapon into the U.S. I think this is a much bigger worry, and that is intentional sabotage or, worse yet, terrorism at a plant.
unidentified
I believe this is the only warfare that this country has to be alarmed of today.
Yeah, I think this is a very serious, very serious danger.
And I think Scott is Right on target, and I don't care what anybody has to say, we should examine possibilities and prepare for them because the alternative is horrible if something would occur.
You know, big deal that we thank you would increase budgets later, that we should have the National Guard surrounding nuclear plants.
I don't know if we need all that.
I don't know.
I haven't done 13 years of research as he has.
But I'm thoughtful on the matter, and if you matter, and if you listen to this program, you should be too.
Oh, I wanted to ask you, I tell you that this is Dorothy from Will Cole, California.
Yes.
And what I see in this here three mile island and the nuclear centers, they have to demand the people enforced to get any action done, state by state or just a homongous amount of people.
If you started with all your listeners, then that would be the first step in getting action.
Well, that was the idea, dear lady, of the program.
To try to get action.
And to try to get an honest examination of what the dangers are, the real dangers, with regard to somebody who would be intent on killing a lot of us.
And believe me, there are a lot of people out there who don't like our butts.
But I don't really need to tell you that, do I?
And we've imagined people constructing from loose bomb-grade material a bomb and sneaking it into the country.
Well, if you listen carefully to what Scott said, there could be a radiation release a thousand times worse than a bomb simply by blowing up or properly sabotaging one of these reactors.
Uh, yes, I think the program uh he was questioning or wondering about was uh an episode of In Search of, which was hosted by Leonard Des Mois.
Right.
Yes, and on that show, they showed an actual photograph that was taken at the moment of death, which showed Daisy something floating upward from the body.
And used that, right, and used that as the basis of what they did.
I would very much like to see that.
And somebody out there somewhere has it.
There's one gentleman who had it in Super VHS or whatever it is, which is not compatible with normal VHS, unfortunately, but I'm sure we'll get a copy.
You're exactly right.
And I wonder about a lot of things.
I wonder about, for example, in this 1907 medical report, I think there is enough evidence that there should have been more recent experiments trying to either duplicate or knock down this, but there haven't been.
Not that I know of.
unidentified
Yes, well, that's probably due to the fact that, as I've said before, science is a religion, and anything that flies in the face of the high priests of science, what they prefer to believe, they don't want to mess with.
Tomorrow night, actually, tonight, this is always very confusing.
Tonight, Kathy Kramer will be here, along with her dad.
Now, who is Kathy Kramer?
Kathy is the sister of the bass player for Iron Butterfly back in the 60s and 70s.
He's missing.
Missing.
And he's got a very strange story.
I mean, this man dropped out, left Iron Butterfly.
Maybe you remember Itagata DeVita, one of the great songs back then.
It was part of that.
Then dropped out, went back to school, got a 4.0 in electrical engineering, worked at Northrop Aerospace, headed the team that designed the inertial guidance system for the MX missile.
I said headed the team.
His father is a professor emeritus of electrical engineering, currently continuing his research on gravity waves.
And at the time he came up missing, he was working on faster-than-light travel, and he suddenly disappeared.
I've always been kind of a friend to nuclear power, but I absolutely agree with Scott that this possibility of sabotage or, worse yet, terrorism is horrible.
Absolutely horrible.
I mean, do we want to see 100,000 dead?
Do we want to see something the size of Pennsylvania uninhabitable for years in this country?
Yeah, some folks from New Zealand was calling about a satellite that they were paying for that was being, I guess, all the information was being sent there.
I read in the Oregonian about a week before they was asking about it.
Well, there was a satellite the United States launched, and the people in New Zealand were complaining and having riots, I guess, and protesting that they were paying like millions of dollars for this satellite.
I was watching it with my binoculars for months, and all I could see was like the big halo.
But with my new telescope, I could see it's just a beautiful aqua blue color, kind of a green tint to it.
And it's not turning or spinning.
I couldn't see any other objects behind it, but however, when I was observing it with my binoculars, I could see that it had a pulsating light, kind of like a searchlight they used during the World War II looking for the bombers, but on a very tight pattern.
And also, you were seeing something earlier tonight about the music they were playing at Waco, Texas.
I believe that was contained subliminal messages to the people with inside, kind of like a psychological warfare.
Yeah, you were talking about toxic waste being released into the atmosphere, and I myself, being homeless in the Pacific Northwest, witnessed tanker trucks back down to the ocean releasing fluid into the water.
In a lot of areas of the country, what we have always known as the mafia, organized crime, has moved from the traditional areas that organized crime was in to the waste and toxic waste disposal business.
A lot of you listening know that I'm right.
And what do you suppose people in organized crime would do with toxic waste?
You think they would dispose of it in a proper manner?
Well, if you listen very carefully, Richard Hoagland, the last time he was on, suggested they have already found the statue of a black man holding an unk.
Like I said, I met somebody who had a relative that was in the CIA, was part of a cleanup crew, and is now out of the CIA because of all the BS, and is willing to spread it out.
Also, when they do the testing, the thing is, is the whole area blacks out.
Me and some friends went to go watch it, but it was too foggy.
Someone else has seen it.
They clear out the area around the lake.
The lake has been supposedly contaminated as of three years ago when they were brought to the base.
And now no one is allowed to fish in it, ski in it, go near it.
There's a bike route around it, and that's it.
At a certain time at 3.20 every morning, the lights around the lake, which is a park area, shut off.
And every time I come home, my sister, my sister-in-law has something new to tell me.
And a couple weeks ago, they were looking through Time Magazine or Newsweek, and there was something about a scientist said that in the year 2000, such a date, that there was going to be some kind of solar flare that was going to basically shut down everything electrical on the planet.
Well, now I don't know about that, but there is predicted to be solar activity around the year 2000 that will be threatening to long electric lines, satellites, that sort of thing.
Yes.
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I was just wondering: if something like that would occur via electromagnetic pulse or something of that nature, what would that do to a nuclear reactor?