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Jan. 14, 1997 - Art Bell

02:43:12

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Disaster Preparedness - Phillip Hoag

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	The night featuring Coast to Coast AM from January 14th, 19...
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and good morning, as the case may be across all these many time zones.
	From the Hawaiian and Tahitian island chains, Eastward to the Caribbean, and the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, South into South America, North to the Pole, and worldwide on the Internet.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well, good morning everybody, and good morning in Canada.
	One of our new affiliates, CFUN, C-F-U-N-A-M, Vancouver, British Columbia.
	50,000 big non-directional watts on 1410.
	Great to have you on board.
	We've been hoping to get on Sea-Fun during the week.
	They've been with us on Dreamland for some time.
	and now they join us during the week if we are lucky we are going to connect with somebody named
	philip ho here shortly
	And I'm out.
	And he has a very, very interesting book that's called, No Such Thing As Doomsday.
	Which is an interesting title, and actually I guess that's the way we're going to begin our discussion with him about it.
	It should be very, very instructive indeed.
	He's actually a preparedness expert.
	Prepared for what?
	Prepared for all kinds of things.
	The Soviet threat gone?
	Really?
	Maybe not.
	At any rate, we'll try and connect with him here in a moment.
	Are you a survivor?
	Are you a survivor? You may find out tonight. The book is No Such Thing As Doomsday.
	The author, Philip Ogue, lives in the state of Montana with his wife Arlene and their five children.
	Philip has a long involvement in preparedness.
	He organized, designed, and helped team-manage the building of a large underground shelter project.
	Underground?
	The project is one of the largest civilian-built underground shelters in the U.S.
	He also organized a local volunteer fire department, and later, with one of his associates, started a volunteer ambulance service, which they currently operate.
	Philip lectures and gives classes on the subject of shelter building and preparedness.
	He's written articles which have appeared in American Survival Guide.
	He's been interviewed on numerous radio talk shows, now another.
	He does consulting in the area of shelter design, systems, and organization.
	So, here he is, Phillip Hogue.
	Phillip, welcome to the program.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	Phillip, number one, why did you write a book called No Such Thing as Doomsday?
	Well, I think that goes back to something that you refer to as the quickening, and I think that what we're seeing here in what I would refer to as the end of the age is we're seeing an acceleration of events, and I think all of us on certain levels, or I should say many of us, are We're tuning in on the level of the mass unconscious, and we're getting an uneasy feeling that things are not right.
	And when you turn around and start looking at what's going on in the nation and the world, we're seeing a lot of things that are moving toward a point of resolution, a kind of convergence.
	Whether we're looking at the economy, whether we're looking at international politics, Whether we're looking at the environment, whether we're looking at an increase in earth changes, whether it's seismic activity or volcanoes, what I think we're seeing is an acceleration whereby at one hand we're seeing a spiritual awakening and at the other hand we're seeing kind of a throwing off of planetary darkness.
	And I think that it's really the uneasiness that a lot of people have is kind of a foreshadowing that we're seeing of future coming events.
	And the reason I wrote this book and I invested ten years into research and study and preparedness and actual activity was to help people Make their preparedness.
	I know that your show has been very instrumental in waking people up to things that seem to be coming in the future, whether it's taking people into regression through hypnosis and moving them into the future, whether it's near-death experiences, whether it's Hopi Indian prophecies.
	We see the same thing coming.
	From a lot of different directions.
	Well, let's talk about the old reason to have a shelter.
	I remember when I was a child, oh, we would have drills in school and duck and cover and we'd all get under our desks and nuclear weapons were going to come flying in at any moment.
	When they did, your desk would protect you.
	And people built shelters and worried about the communist threat.
	And today, in the popular press, The understanding, or misunderstanding is a better way to put it, is that the nuclear threat is all gone.
	We don't have to worry about that.
	Finally, a generation out from under the nuclear holocaust, a possibility.
	But we really are not, are we?
	No, and in fact, it's very interesting that it was politically correct back in the 60s to build fallout shelters.
	But it's very politically incorrect in the eyes of media, the media, the mainline media today, to make any preparedness preparations.
	And it's kind of ironic, because really, just from the nuclear standpoint, the threat factor is a hundredfold greater today than it was in the 60s.
	Because we have a proliferation of nuclear technology into third world countries who basically hate us.
	And I might say for very good reasons, many times.
	And unfortunately, it's not just limited to nuclear technology.
	The thing that really frightens me equally as much as nuclear technology is the fact that we're getting a proliferation in biological warfare technology.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	The 12 monkeys scenario.
	Would a shelter protect one from a biological threat?
	Well, you know, yes.
	In fact, a lot of the shelters that I've built, when I build a shelter, I don't build it strictly to deal with a nuclear threat.
	I look at the biological threat, I look at the nuclear threat, and I also look at the natural disturbance threat, whether it's a massive earthquake, Or some of the very etheric things that people talk about, like pole shift, and things that are kind of scientifically hard to get a grasp on in the immediate future, but, you know, there are potential out there.
	But just looking at the biological threat, the main problem in biological is human contact, and also, depending on how it's dispersed, if it's an agent that's actually dispersed through the air through an aircraft, And dust it onto a large area.
	This stuff is in the air, and it's airborne.
	If you know that this is going on, of course, then you can go into your shelter, and if you have an air filtration system there, you can isolate yourself until the exposure period is over.
	Now, the very scary thing about biological agents are that many times, like in the case of anthrax, You're not going to know that you've been exposed or that an act of biological terrorism has occurred until long after the fact.
	In fact, when you start seeing the symptoms, it's going to be too late to treat the disease.
	All right, since you've researched this a little bit, obviously from the point of view of protecting oneself against, say, a biological threat, if you were, Philip, a terrorist and you wanted to kill Massive numbers of people.
	How would you do it?
	And what would you use?
	It's very cost effective.
	Anthrax is a real easy one to manufacture.
	You could put enough in a van and just drive around Manhattan and spray it around on the streets.
	Really?
	And be out of there before people started seeing the symptoms.
	You could kill several million people.
	Now, if you really wanted to be effective, you get a DC-8 aircraft, and you load that up and you just fly over and spray large metropolitan areas.
	Yikes.
	I mean, this has been well-researched by government agencies.
	It's a real threat.
	Do we have detectors for this?
	In other words, if a DC-8 was up there spraying cities as it went?
	No.
	Would we know?
	Virtually no detection.
	We wouldn't even know about it?
	That's correct.
	Now, there is good detection equipment for chemical warfare threats, but we talked about this earlier and we ought to probably clarify it for the listening audience.
	The chemical threat is not as serious as the biological nuclear threat, because chemical weapons are deployed in small geographical areas.
	They disperse very quickly with wind, and you cannot blanket a large area with chemical agents.
	Perhaps a good battlefield weapon, but not... Correct.
	Yeah.
	I understand.
	In other words, localized effect, then it disperses, it's gone.
	Now, you know, obviously, you know, people that are really serious about preparedness, the first thing I tell them is if you really want to do something, you need to get out of highly populated areas.
	Because you're very vulnerable and dependent in these areas.
	Because they're going to be the targets.
	They're going to be the targets, and not only to nuclear, chemical, or biological type situations, but you also have to understand if there is any natural upheaval.
	If there's an earthquake.
	We've got a very fragile infrastructure in this nation.
	We're very decentralized.
	Excuse me, we're very centralized.
	In our food and water and power distribution.
	That was obvious with the recent floods, the problems up in the Spokane area, where power went down and stayed down during cold weather for days.
	It was awful.
	Yes, and I know we just went through a spell here in Montana of 30 below.
	And, you know, I would have moved into my shelter if the power went down.
	I've got generators down there and it stays a constant, you know, 48 degrees and I've got all the luxuries of home there.
	What do we know, would you tell me a little bit about anthrax?
	If somebody should spray that, for example, how would the symptoms manifest themselves?
	How would it spread?
	Would it simply be an air mist?
	That would be inhaled and then what days or weeks later you begin getting sick or what?
	How does that work?
	I think it's a matter of days.
	Days.
	In fact, let's see, I'll have to turn to Chapter 4 here.
	Alright.
	Chemical and Biological Warfare.
	Let's see, Chapter 44.
	So you obviously found my book there, right?
	Oh yes.
	Okay.
	I've got it.
	And then looking here, let me move on.
	It's fairly quickly on biological agents.
	I don't know if I have the exact figures here on the actual time, but it's within days that you start seeing the symptoms.
	And unless you actually know that you've been immediately exposed to it, it's very difficult to treat it with antibiotics.
	It is treatable?
	To a certain extent, it is treatable, yes.
	But if there were mass exposure, not everybody would get treatment, would they?
	That would be my assessment.
	And then there are other more deadly biological agents, like Ebola virus.
	And we're already seeing mainline media preparation for for that sort of event and just some of the
	uh...
	movies that have been out but there's uh... a lot of information out there that
	goes into uh... the fact that there's a very good possibility that ebola
	was a man-made
	when uh...
	when i was young a lot of the thinking was
	if there was a nuclear war uh... and i suppose this might might translate to a
	biological uh... assault as well
	You might not want to be a survivor.
	Well, let's back up on that.
	I think that in the mainline media we've been barraged for years with propaganda from the unilateral disarmament groups.
	And, you know, they have certain jargon like nuclear winter, like the Earth will be sterilized for a thousand years.
	This is absolutely, totally unscientific and not true.
	It's very easy to survive nuclear war, if you've made preparations.
	If you've made preparations to protect yourself for 14 to 30 days from fallout, Radioactive fallout from the detonation of a nuclear weapon decays very quickly.
	Now, another thing that they try and mix around and confuse people with is they start talking about Chernobyl.
	Chernobyl is a completely different situation.
	The byproducts of a nuclear reactor can take thousands of years to decay.
	The decay rate of the gamma, alpha, and beta rays produced in nuclear fallout From the detonation of a nuclear, tactical nuclear weapon.
	Very quick.
	Very quick.
	Well, we dropped bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and that was habitable land shortly thereafter.
	That's correct.
	In fact, I've seen some old news clips of Nevada nuclear tests, and the day after they're out there walking around with reporters.
	It's true.
	Of course, they probably didn't realize that those reporters were picking up some exposure.
	Now, it is possible to make a dirty nuclear weapon, isn't it?
	That's correct, it is.
	You know, I think that type of action would strictly be a terrorist action, because you have to understand, from the point of view of real nuclear war, whether it involves the now-reformed Soviets, Or the Red Chinese.
	The whole tactic when you look into communist war philosophy is not to destroy and devastate a country, but to inflict minimal damage to the point that you can take over and use the resources.
	In other words, you would not want to destroy that which you were seeking to take over.
	Correct.
	You wouldn't want to contaminate landscape that you want to occupy.
	Now, you said reformed Soviet Union.
	Maybe.
	Russia is still a pretty strange place.
	I was there.
	China is not all that reformed.
	Economically, they're taking some pretty good steps.
	Politically, they have not budged.
	And then, of course, there's North Korea.
	Stay right where you are, Philip.
	We'll be right back to you.
	Philip Hogue is my guest.
	His book, No Such Thing as Doomsday.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 14, 1997.
	Coast to Coast is a movie by the American filmmaker and director, John Lennon.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 14th, 1997.
	You might warm up your computer.
	We've got a big announcement coming up at midnight tonight.
	A lot of you know what it is.
	Some of you may not.
	warm-up the uh... and here for whatever it is and get ready alright uh... back now to philip hold
	And, Philip, a lot of people these days would say, fallout shelter?
	Shelter underground for earth changes or biological warfare?
	Have you lost your mind?
	Correct.
	Yeah, people, incorrect.
	Totally, politically incorrect.
	Well, you know, they said the same thing to Noah.
	I bet they did.
	Ship?
	Yeah, dry land boats.
	Animals?
	Have you lost your mind?
	That's right.
	and somebody named bill in rockport uh... missouri senate acts just now and said
	art asked philip
	does his perspective on the future reflect generally the current views of elizabeth uh...
	profit well uh...
	i'm not not sure what he's referring to it the present views of elizabeth clare
	profit I
	I think that, from my understanding of her views, that she is concerned about the situation of the communist threat.
	But I don't think her concern is limited solely to the communist threat.
	I think she's also concerned about the potential for disruption of What I would call natural earth changes.
	And, you know, I am concerned about all of this.
	So the answer really is yes, to some degree.
	Do you know Elizabeth Clarke?
	Yes, I know her.
	I find that woman an extremely interesting individual, and I've been trying to interview her for a long time.
	Very interesting.
	What can you tell me about her?
	Well, I've actually known her for I think about 24 years now.
	Let me clarify one thing here.
	There are, what I see, two categories of people who fall into this area.
	You've got the people who claim to be channeled.
	And I know you've talked on the show a little bit about what you think about channels.
	I'm not big on channels.
	I'm not either.
	I'm not really sold on to the whole psychic situation.
	I think it's a can of worms, and depending on which way the wind is blowing, that's the kind of result you get out of it.
	Elizabeth Clare Prophet represents herself as a prophet.
	She does not necessarily come out and say that such and such is going to happen on such and such a date.
	I think her basic message is, and you have to understand I'm not a representative of their organization, but I can tell you what I read to be her basic message is that we're coming to the end of the age and we're coming to what you would refer to as a karmic resolution.
	And this ties into the quickening.
	That's what I believe, firmly.
	We are headed towards something.
	And you know, Nostradamus saw this also.
	And that it's not that she is saying that there is going to be nuclear war, but she's saying that we're moving to this point of resolution and people are very naive to the threat of nuclear war.
	And that people should prepare for it.
	In the same sense, I mean, I kind of look at the earth itself almost as a living organism.
	And if you look at nature, nature has always exhibited the ability to throw off situations of disease, of overpopulation.
	If there's an overpopulation of a species, There's a natural counterbalance that comes into play, whether it's a natural event, whether it's a predator.
	And I kind of look at the situation of mankind at this point, that we're moving to a point where we may look at a natural resolution to the problems that we're not dealing with.
	Now, these are not foregone conclusions.
	You know, the future is not set in concrete.
	And Nostradamus even alluded to this.
	It's a pliable element.
	We create the future from our position today, but we have to be careful that we don't get euphoric.
	I run into people when I go to preparedness shows and they'll come up to me and say, you have a bad attitude.
	A bad attitude?
	Yeah, they say, I'm positive, I think positive.
	I don't need any of this because I think positive.
	I say, now wait a minute, come on over here.
	Now, do you own a car?
	The guy says, yeah, I own a car.
	I said, do you drive a car?
	He says, yeah, I drive a car.
	I said, does your car have a spare tire?
	He says, yeah.
	I said, would you take a long trip, a thousand mile trip, without a spare tire?
	He goes, no, of course not.
	I said, then why the heck would you consider living in a nuclear age with the proliferation of biological and nuclear technology out there and a lot of third world countries that hate it?
	Why would you travel through a nuclear age without a spare tire in your truck?
	I said, preparedness is your spare tire.
	Obviously, if you decided to go on that long trip and you knew there was nails scattered down the road, wouldn't it be a little foolish to say, I'm going to protect myself with a positive attitude?
	He stuttered and stammered and stumbled away.
	He couldn't argue with me.
	This is the point that I think Elizabeth Clare Prophet has tried to make.
	She's gotten a lot of bad rap from the media of being a doomsdayer.
	And maybe the title of your book is appropriate.
	No such thing as doomsday.
	No such thing as a flat tire if you've got a spare.
	Same sort of thing.
	So that accounts for the title of your book.
	You're saying there may be a big problem, but it need not be doomsday for you personally if you prepare.
	I mean, my attitude is, I have a different attitude about preparedness.
	I mean, there are several preparedness camps out there.
	There's one camp of people that look at it from a purely survival point of view.
	Now, I'm not in this to save my skin.
	I'm in this out of a sense of mission.
	I believe, and my goal is to get to the other side.
	I think we've got a storm coming.
	I can't tell you the wind speed.
	I can tell you there's a storm on the horizon.
	I can't tell you how high the waves are going to be because I don't profess to have a crystal ball.
	But I'm looking to get to the other side.
	The reason I'm looking to get to the other side is because I think there's going to be a brighter day.
	I want to retain and carry through my spiritual values.
	I want my children to get to the other side to carry these things on.
	I really believe that sooner or later we're all going to die, let's face it.
	That's one thing I really deal with in my book that very few people have really dealt with is how to deal with death and dying.
	In our society we like to shove that back in the corner and we don't like to deal with it.
	That's something that we may see in the future.
	My attitude is that we all need to do our best and prepare.
	If our number is up, our number is up.
	Many of us have philosophies of the ongoing nature of life.
	I also do.
	I don't really fear death.
	I've had near death experiences in the past.
	But I have a sense of mission and that's why I prepare.
	Why I suggest other people prepare.
	What I try to do in this book is make a how-to book of how to turn your concern into action.
	I think your show has been phenomenal in waking people up and they've got concern now.
	What I come through on this book is how to take that concern and actually translate it.
	What to do.
	Number one, what to do.
	A lot of people that are listening to you right now.
	Live in the middle of Los Angeles, San Diego, Seattle, Chicago, you name it, you know, the big cities.
	What can they do?
	Well, obviously, what I do in the book is I kind of talk about different threats when I work through.
	Obviously, let's just look at a threat scenario.
	All right.
	Okay, what would happen if we had a nuclear attack on this country?
	We have a very fragile infrastructure when it comes to the distribution of food.
	If you're in Southern California, the availability of water is a very fragile infrastructure.
	When you start looking at how much food is on the shelves of the local grocery stores, you're looking at a maximum of seven days of food supply.
	And when you look at your dependency on the electric meter out there, People just need to start thinking, what would happen if the power went off?
	Not too many people have to think real hard about that.
	We've got, as I said, in the Northwest, hundreds of thousands of people lost power.
	And, you know, when the power is there, you don't even think about it.
	When it goes off, you begin to realize how much it really affects everything you need to do.
	Right.
	In fact, even here, I live in rural Montana.
	I have neighbors and a lot of these people are very preparedness minded.
	I say to them, well, what are you going to do if the power goes down?
	I say, you've got a 600 foot well there.
	You're not going to be able to flush the toilet.
	You're not going to be able to get a drink of water.
	What are you going to do?
	Going back to people in the cities, all I can say to you is if you're in a situation where you can't relocate out of a highly populated area... And a lot of people can't.
	You can only do the best you can do.
	And number one, you need to get a long-term food storage program.
	And a lot of people now, this gets really bad mouth in the mainline media.
	Anybody who puts aside long-term food storage is a hoarder.
	And that is just a very distorted view of the situation.
	If you put away long-term food storage when there's an abundance of food available, You're making it easier for everybody else because you're not going to be competing for food rationing when it happens.
	Right.
	So it should be encouraged.
	But the reason that certain elements in the government don't like this is because it makes you less dependent.
	Controllable.
	Right.
	And dependency breeds control.
	Now, don't get me wrong.
	I'm not anti-government.
	I think we've got a lot of good people in the government.
	Unfortunately, we have some black elements.
	A minority that seem to have control of what's going on.
	Actually, I'm not a big anti-government person either.
	However, there was some regulation or law proposed recently with regard to hoarding, wasn't there?
	Right, and I think it's whatever they decide is a two-week food supply.
	What right do they have to tell us that we can't have more than two weeks or two months or two years of food if we want to?
	I don't get that.
	Art, if you go and you read the U.S.
	Constitution and you look at 60% of the laws on the books, you would say, what right do they have to do this?
	Yeah, but I'm asking about this specific one.
	What do they care?
	There's plenty of food out there right now.
	If we want to store some up, so what?
	Well, I think, you know, and I cover this in the book, when you look back to what the Soviets did to the people in the Ukraine, They couldn't subjugate the people, so they created an artificial famine.
	There were tons of food in the warehouse, and they starved millions of people.
	When you start looking at weather modification technology, and some of the stuff with HAARP, and the capabilities of modifying weather, and you start putting together the big picture, It's a marvelous tool for controlling people to control food.
	Well, it's true.
	You could have all the guns in the world, and if you did not have food, the day would come, or the hour would come, when you would gladly say, here's my guns, give me some food.
	Well, that's very interesting, too, because, you know, I don't have this in my hand, but from reliable sources, some friends of mine came up with some documentation from the U.S.
	Department of Agriculture.
	stating that usda offices which are would be your ration food rationing
	centers yes it also begun collection point so when you equate the two
	uh... we're seeing that uh... there'd be no food rationing without the surrender
	of firearms uh... very dark scenario
	right uh...
	you know i i really see i don't really cover the totalitarian threat
	in my book to any great detail for a number of reasons.
	One, I try to make my book as broad-based as possible so that it doesn't turn off a great deal of people.
	But I think this is a real concern.
	What I try to convey into the book is being self-sufficient, not being dependent.
	I think the worst case scenario would be Our nation's government becoming a totalitarian government.
	I'd rather face nuclear war, quite frankly.
	Or some sort of civil disruption.
	I absolutely don't rule that out.
	It doesn't take many people to get something like that started, and we went through a rash of it.
	Now it's calmed down a bit, but you know, the whole militia movement, that business.
	Right.
	Very concerned about that.
	And so there are a variety of threats, whether it's terrorism, The old nuclear threat.
	Domestic disruption.
	You are correct.
	A million different things could happen.
	Financial collapse.
	That's one I'm very personally concerned with.
	We just had a presidential election.
	The debt.
	The monstrous debt we have and what that is going to do.
	Not even debated.
	Not even debated.
	And in a very few years, all the money we would use for any social programs It's going to be gone.
	To interest on the debt.
	And that's going to cause some serious trouble, Philip.
	Serious.
	It's an impending storm that's on the horizon.
	Yes.
	As you mentioned, weather changes.
	Now, I'm beginning to think the weather is changing.
	I'm not saying that some little wizard of Oz behind a curtain is pulling levers.
	I don't know.
	Maybe it's environmental, but the weather does seem to be changing.
	So, you build shelters.
	What kind of shelters?
	Well, most of the shelters that, you know, let me go back to square one here.
	I started out at a point that I was concerned about preparedness, and so the natural thing that I did that a lot of your listeners out there will try and do is, I'm going to contact FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management I'm going to see if they have any information on how to prepare.
	I did that 10, 12, 13 years ago.
	They send you out these Xeroxes of 1960 brochures.
	They were virtually worthless.
	There really wasn't any information there that was comprehensive, that was usable, that was in any way effective.
	The scenario that they were using back on the 60s was the old doomsday scenario.
	If we had a nuclear war, the Russians would fire off all their weapons, and the U.S.
	would fire off all their weapons.
	And then, you know, the dust would settle, and then after 14 days, the radioactivity would have decayed to the point that we could all come out and start the new age.
	You know, rebuild civilization.
	Right.
	Well, that is a really outgrown The new scenario for nuclear war is protracted nuclear war, which could go on for several years.
	Really?
	This is government studies.
	When I started studying into this and finding out what the real story was, I started building shelter systems that had longer duration.
	A lot of the FEMA brochures are based on the 14-day to 30-day stay scenario.
	Most of the structures that I've built and been involved in, we built them to go maybe a year and a half.
	That's a long time in a shelter.
	It's like building a submarine or a spaceship, except it doesn't go anywhere.
	Underground.
	Underground.
	The particular one that I organized and built is about 7,000 square feet.
	Oh, that's big.
	And we outfitted it with three diesel generators.
	It's got, you know, running water, hot water, you know, showers, flush toilets, kitchen facility.
	And, you know, you could close the doors on that for a year and a half.
	Wow.
	You know all those people that you talked about that have rose-colored glasses, don't think about, don't care about preparedness?
	The one that you lectured about the spare tire?
	Right.
	They'd be a-knockin' at your door.
	Well, that's a serious concern.
	And it's the one we're going to talk about when we get back.
	Stay right where you are.
	Philip Hogue is my guest.
	He builds shelters.
	Maybe you should, too.
	We'll talk more about it.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 14th, 1997.
	Music Music
	Music Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired January 14th, 1997.
	Well alright, here I am once again.
	the premier radio networks presents part bills somewhere in
	time the rights program originally aired january fourteen
	nineteen ninety seven well right here i am once again good morning everybody
	philip hoag is my guest and he has offered a very comprehensive book called
	no such thing as
	doomsday Oh
	We'll get back to him.
	He builds shelters.
	Big'uns!
	7,000 square feet.
	that's a big big underground shelter all right back down to philip hoag and i would ask my
	audience to ask yourself if something occurred nuclear
	biological chemical natural whatever
	would you be one of the people in a shelter in an area where you had food and water
	and some sort of electricity or would you be one of the people
	knocking on somebody's uh... shelter Which category
	Would you be in if that occurred right this minute?
	It's an interesting question.
	Now, back to my guest, Phillip Hogue.
	Phillip, welcome back.
	Hi, Art.
	We were talking about security.
	Yes.
	Well, security is kind of the sensational issue.
	You know, the social trend today is toward disarming the public.
	Yes.
	Gun ownership and shelter defense considerations are potentially politically incorrect.
	All right, well, a lot of people have joined us here at the top of the hour in large cities.
	You build shelters.
	Right.
	Actual shelters.
	A big one.
	You've got a 7,000 foot shelter.
	That's more like a warehouse.
	That's gigantic.
	And right at the top of the hour, I said, look, if something awful happened, biological, even chemical, Nuclear.
	Whatever.
	Earth changes.
	A lot of people know, now even more, that you've got a big shelter.
	Lots of food.
	Lots of other stuff.
	They're gonna come knocking at your door.
	I remember an old Twilight Zone, where people went down into the shelter.
	I'm sure you saw it.
	I remember that.
	Yeah.
	And the people were pounding lettuce in, have you no mercy!
	That's what would happen to you.
	Well, you know, I can talk about that.
	Number one, if you build a shelter, you really need to consider the security factor.
	Because a shelter is a very vulnerable thing.
	I mean, you can make strong doors on it, but no matter how well you design your system, your air supply is very vulnerable.
	When you're in a shelter, you're like being under the water with a snorkel.
	And so, you know, this is something you have to look at.
	A lot of times when you make security preparations, people will accuse you of being anti-government and doing this because you're planning some confrontation with the government.
	Are you a militia member, Philip?
	No, I'm not.
	You're not?
	No, I'm not.
	I'm not going to badmouth the militia.
	I think they've gotten a lot of bad misrepresentation.
	I'm not a member of the militia, but what I would like to say is that The reason I make security, and I advocate making security preparations, is not because of the threat of government, but the concern that in a crisis there might not be enough government.
	Do you follow what I'm saying?
	Oh, very well, yes indeed.
	As a matter of fact, even in the lesser disasters, I'll tell you something.
	Up in Washington, in eastern Washington and elsewhere, when the power went out, the lines went down, The ice got on the lines, everything went down.
	Frankly, a lot of civil authorities told people, you're on your own.
	And that was a minor matter compared to what could occur.
	That's correct.
	And unfortunately, but true, I think that in a real emergency, like we saw in the story of Noah, all those people that mocked him while he was building the ark, they all came banging on his door when the water started rising.
	Now, I really believe that Noah, could he have opened the door, would have opened the door and let the people in.
	I think he was a big-hearted guy.
	The problem was, if God had let him open the door, those people would have thrown him and the animals overboard.
	So, basically, what I cover in my security section in the book is, I discuss this issue and I go into some very practical things that people can do.
	But the bottom line is I think everybody has a moral responsibility, if they own a shelter, to fill it to the capacity of the life support systems.
	And now what I mean by life support systems is you can't just put an infinite amount of people in a confined space underground.
	You have to circulate air through it.
	And I have a very comprehensive chapter in this book on air supply systems, air filtration and whatnot, and how to calculate how many people Your air supply system will support, because oxygen is not the issue, it's CO2 buildup.
	And when people breathe, they give off CO2, and if you're not moving enough ventilation through there, CO2 levels quickly rise to a level where it starts killing people long before you've used up the oxygen.
	Alright, well I've had a lot of people who have said they've seen your shelter or know about it, and it is very impressive.
	How many people Could a 7,000 square foot shelter hold?
	Again, it goes back to the air supply system.
	Exactly.
	In our system, we've got about 1,200 CFM.
	According to the government recommendations, it's 7.5 CFM for our climatic region.
	That equates to about 150 people.
	I think it's a very impersonal issue.
	At the point that you fill the capacity of your shelter, it's an impersonal issue of closing the door.
	You've got nothing personal against the people that are still outside, but I'll guarantee you they will take it very personally.
	That's where the security issues come in.
	I discuss things in the book about practical security and how to protect your air supply systems.
	That's what it basically focalizes around.
	It's everybody needs to know what the capacity of their shelter is.
	Now, you know, there's a lot of people that say, well, you know, I could never deal with that situation, so I won't build a shelter.
	I'd just as soon die.
	Well, you know, somebody's got to carry things on.
	Well, apparently the government feels that way.
	Now, while they have not sponsored a big effort for the civilian population to build shelters, for some reason they There's a very comprehensive book out there.
	I go into this a little bit, but there's a book out there called Government Underground Bases and Shelters.
	He very comprehensively goes through and lists all the known shelters.
	He infers the presence of some very deep underground tunneling.
	Which he can't substantiate, but he can show you.
	He documents in that book the existence of the planning work that went into it, and the patenting of the technology to accomplish it.
	Believe me, I've seen on 60 Minutes and some other programs like it, they have shown some government shelters.
	Right, government.
	We know about Iron Mountain and all the other known government facilities, and they've invested billions of dollars.
	Yes.
	We know about those.
	In fact, there was an interesting story about they built a lead-lined vehicle for getting government members out of Washington, D.C.
	I think they finally figured out that they weren't going to be able to get them out by helicopter.
	And the only thing I could figure, that this thing must be a track vehicle that can drive over the top of the civilian cars that have jammed up the interstate.
	It's kind of a sad scenario, but the government has made extensive preparations in spite of downplaying it, the federal emergency management facilities around the country and the regional centers.
	I went down to the Denver facility.
	In downtown Denver, they've got a mile square federal block there, and they've got the regional FEMA center there, and we walked up.
	Sort of impressive and it had this combination push button thing on the door to get in and so we stood there until some guy came up and pushed the buttons and then we just walked in behind him.
	Really?
	And so then you went down these stairways and then there were two massive blast doors that went down to a security gate and so we just walked down and there looked like a guy about ready for retirement.
	He was the security officer there and we said we'd like to get some brochures and the guy
	about wet his pants.
	He was looking around, how did you get in here?
	They had security cameras and I could look at his monitor screen, shooting down these
	tunnels and everywhere.
	He keeps getting on the phone trying to get somebody to come out to get rid of us.
	And we're scoping out the whole operation.
	You're already deep inside the security requesting brochures.
	And then finally they brought, they wouldn't even give us brochures, they brought us out this application that we had to send to the state FEMA director, you know, to even qualify to get the brochures.
	And so then we went outside and we inspected their air intake and exhaust ducts for their generators, which I thought were pretty Well, now that is the weak, weak link, right?
	In other words, for any shelter underground, you've got to have access to air at some point, somewhere above ground.
	Right.
	And if these guys are coming knocking on your door, if they get angry, because you're not letting them in, which you're not going to, They're going to go looking for your air supply, right?
	Right.
	You know, we've designed countermeasures for that.
	But the other aspect is having the ability to be able to operate without incoming air for a period of time.
	I go into this in the book.
	You can calculate how long you can close up your system based on how many cubic feet of air and the number of people in the shelter.
	And also there's a few other things you can do You remember in Apollo 13, the big problem they had there is they had a lithium hydroxide module that they had to retrofit.
	Yes.
	And there's two elements.
	One is called sodium hydroxide and the other is lithium hydroxide.
	And these are chemical compounds you can use to absorb CO2 out of the air.
	And if you have these and you've got a system set up, you can actually Go a long time in a confined area without people perishing, because as long as you can scrub the CO2 out of the air, the oxygen will last a long time.
	So, in some cases, it's a matter of having the capability to wait them out.
	If you follow what I mean.
	Yes, I do.
	How long, with the planned number of people in your shelter, could you go without access to outside air?
	I could potentially go 33 hours.
	33 hours.
	And I presume in that period of time, you would figure out, or try to figure out, how to clear your access to outside air again.
	Right.
	And I always recommend that people look at non-lethal means.
	You know, a lot of people think, well, you know, the world would be over and you'd never have to answer for activities that you engage in.
	But my attitude is always, you know, don't count on You know, having to answer.
	Don't count on not having to answer for what you did.
	Alright, so what's a good non-lethal means of stopping somebody intent on screwing up your air supply?
	Well, bear spray is one thing.
	It incapacitates people.
	It doesn't create any real physical damage.
	What kind of spray?
	A bear spray?
	Your pepper spray?
	Oh, pepper.
	Yes.
	You know, people can be very creative.
	The other thing is, I really emphasize, we have a very comprehensive communications section, is having the ability to communicate with the authorities.
	And communicate with the authorities and say, hey, I've got a problem here.
	I'm a taxpayer.
	How do you want us to deal with it?
	Put the ball back in their lap.
	Tape record it.
	Because, you know, life's going to go on and these situations are probably going to have to be resolved after the fact.
	You know, I don't mean to harp too much on the security aspect, but it's a real concern.
	Of course.
	Of course, all the people without spare tires, they're going to want tires.
	And you're going to be the guy with tires.
	And, you know, I really wish, if I had the money and the resources, I could fulfill myself in life just going out and building shelters for the civilian population.
	And I think our government has an obligation to do this.
	What people don't realize is Oak Ridge Laboratories spent, I think, close to 12 years after they developed the bomb, developing civil defense technology.
	And then the Soviets took that technology.
	They took it and they applied it.
	We signed something in the McNamara That's correct.
	We'll see.
	This has happened over and over.
	mutual assured destruction what that means is that the soviet are going to hold our civilian population is a nuclear
	hostage and we are supposed to be able to hold
	soviet population
	at the nuclear hot but one little problem they have built shelters that's
	correct will see this happened over and over it
	soon as the ink dot bride on the treaty
	uh... where we promised we wouldn't develop a national civil defense network
	they promise that they wouldn't.
	Because the whole idea is, if neither of us have civil defense, neither of us would initiate nuclear war, because it would result in the destruction of our civilian population.
	As soon as the ink was dry, they developed a national civil defense program.
	They've sheltered 70% of their population.
	That's what I've heard.
	Not only that, they borrowed money from Western banks and built blast-hardened facilities for the KGB and all the branches of the military and the Politburo.
	So, this is not the end of it.
	Okay, then we came to the ABM Treaty, the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.
	This is strictly a defensive, not offensive.
	You know, it gets so bad-mouthed.
	This is defensive.
	Alright, well, why have we not built an ABM It's called insanity and treason.
	I mean, we're looking at global politics here.
	Vulnerability breeds control.
	We talk about this with food, it's the same story with defense.
	What most Americans don't realize is even if there was an accident, say there was an accidental launch, something went haywire, and a Soviet weapon got launched at the United States, we do not have a means of stopping it.
	No way to stop it.
	No way to stop it.
	That's insanity.
	We have the technology.
	We're talking defensive, not offensive.
	That is not the case with the Soviets.
	Where we left off, we were talking about the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.
	Correct.
	As soon as the ink was dried, they started deploying, and they now have the only operational anti-ballistic missile system.
	They have it.
	I think it's called the Pershinko radar installation.
	It's a huge structure.
	Larger than the Great Pyramid.
	And I believe ABM's ring Moscow, don't they?
	Oh, yes.
	Yes.
	Everything they've done there is clearly in violation of the ABM Treaty, but we're still spinning our wheels in Congress.
	It's virtual insanity.
	We're not talking about creating a bigger bomb to nuke somebody.
	We're talking about protecting our civilian population.
	And what's even scarier is we could scrap our national You know, it used to be in the major cities, they had civilian shelters that had food, that had medical supplies.
	I remember.
	I remember.
	They had the marks.
	And they're all gone.
	You see these water containers, they're using them for trash cans in the county buildings.
	You know, a government shelter, a civilian government shelter, is nothing more than a good place to die.
	You know, at this point, in the face of a national emergency.
	But then again, they've made adequate preparations for the government officials themselves.
	It's one of the highest echelons of state government.
	Oh, yes.
	And so, you know, this is a very real concern that we don't have an anti-ballistic missile system in this country.
	This protects civilians, all right?
	We have the technology.
	We had the technology.
	We're getting ready to deploy.
	The Russians came running up and said, oh, this just escalates the arms race.
	Phillip, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We'll be right back and talk about that.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 14th, 1997.
	Coast to Coast is a music video from the late 90s. It was released in 1997.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 14th, 1997.
	My guest is Philip Hogue, Underground Shelters, A Thing of the Past.
	Question mark?
	I don't think so.
	and uh... i've got a number of questions for him and we will let you ask questions
	all right apparently a lot of people are very interested uh...
	uh... philip in what you're saying and And here are some questions from Frank in Cleveland, Ohio.
	My question, What can a person do to build a shelter if there's no sufficient financial background for that person to do so?
	Obviously, building a shelter requires quite a large amount of money.
	Not necessarily.
	I go into a lot of options.
	I have a chapter called Shelter Types, and it's not limited to just below-ground shelters.
	It discusses basement fallout shelters and some very expedient measures and Including using tunnels and mines and using the shielding from commercial buildings.
	There are a lot of options.
	You're not strictly limited to a high-tech, very expensive operation.
	There are a lot of options and expedient things that people can do.
	It can be done.
	My attitude is that where there is a will, there is a way.
	There is a divine solution to every problem.
	If we pursue it.
	Alright, give him an idea then.
	You say you could build an adequate shelter in a basement?
	Yes.
	In my shelter section, what I basically do is I go over the pros and cons of every option.
	There is no silver bullet in the universe.
	Everything has its pros and cons.
	Like, for instance, a basement shelter.
	The drawbacks of a basement shelter is that if you are, say, potentially in a target area, where there's going to be overpressure, there's always a danger that if you have a shelter in a basement, that the house could collapse on top of you, that there could be a fire in the area, which could produce CO fumes, which are heavier than air that could kill people in basements.
	Predominantly, the people that were in shelters in the Dresden bombings in Germany during World War II, most of the people in shelters that died, died from CO poisoning, from the heavier-than-air gases.
	And so, that's the real drawback to a fallout shelter.
	Now, if you're not near a, quote, target area, if you're, you know, 12 miles away from a known target, then you're not going to be affected by overpressure.
	And a fallout shelter has many advantages.
	One, everything is very near at hand.
	Two, it's a multi-use space.
	And I discussed how to construct shielding in a basement shelter.
	I've got it all in the book here.
	As long as you construct the proper shielding, you've got a lot of things very near at hand.
	You don't have to go far to get into it.
	You just run downstairs.
	And like I say, that's a space that is not just It's solely dedicated to being a fallout shelter.
	It can be a rec room, it can be a TV room, it can be an exercise room.
	There's a lot of creative use you can make for that space.
	So, a basement shelter is probably one of the most cost-effective means that you can employ.
	Now, when you start looking at large commercial buildings, I've got a whole chapter in here that I talk about radiation shielding, alright, and how to calculate it.
	If you've got the basement in a large building, you've got a lot more Uh, radiation shielding setting up on top of you.
	You can look around and see what sort of available commercial structures there are in your area and see if there's one that's got some pretty good shielding into it.
	Uh, the considerations you have to look for is, number one, you're going to need a source of water.
	Now, a lot of times in a large building, there's a standing reservoir of water sitting above you in the entire plumbing system.
	Right.
	Uh, there's hot water heater tanks in your basement a lot of times.
	There's a lot of expedient things that you can draw on for water.
	That's an important factor.
	Generally speaking, it's not that hard to deal with radioactive fallout in terms of air filtration.
	The old school of thought, they get into using these expensive, Swiss-made carbon air filtration systems, but you only really need those systems if you are very close to a target area.
	Man, if you live close to a target area, you need to move.
	That's the most cost-effective thing you can do.
	Because even if you had the best shelter in the world, a state-of-the-art built by the Rand Corporation in your backyard, the first thing you may know, the first thing you may realize that you've got a problem is the flash.
	And at that point, the neutron radiation just cooked you.
	You're running for the door.
	Even if you beat the overpressure to the door, the neutron radiation just zaps you if you're that close.
	So you are the walking dead?
	Yeah, you're fried.
	You're toasted.
	So, my point to people is, if you're that close to a target area, the most cost-effective thing you can do is move.
	I'm not really an advocate of building blast shelters, per se.
	Because anybody that needs a blast shelter is in the wrong place.
	Well, there's a lot of people in wrong places.
	Right.
	Well, it's not hard to figure out if you're in the wrong place.
	And the other thing that the unilateral disarmament groups have perpetuated to the mainline media is that the whole United States is going to be devastated.
	That's not the case.
	And I've got the charts and everything in my book that show you what the overpressure and the heat effects are from the detonation of both Ground burst weapons and air burst weapons.
	And I talk about the whole technology of weapons and the detonation of weapons and what the effects are on populated areas.
	And if you're out 12 miles away from a ground burst, you're not even going to hardly feel the wind from that thing on a one megaton weapon.
	And most of the weapons in the U.S.
	and Soviet arsenal have been tailored down to Kiloton weapons, because of the effectiveness of multiple warhead weapons, and you get more bang for your buck out of multiple smaller weapons than you do out of the big weapons, you know, the 50 megaton.
	You know, they only carry those around right now for taking out major hardened targets.
	All right, another question I have, and you're right, and that almost seems to me to be treasonous.
	Because in the Constitution, the government has The responsibility for the common defense.
	Right.
	That's the common defense.
	And every government official has sworn an oath to uphold the U.S.
	Constitution.
	So you can interpret that as you wish.
	How accurate do you think the Russian weapons really are?
	They're very accurate.
	From all the intelligence people that I've talked to, you know, in the old days, in the 50s, they were very inaccurate, and that's part of the reason for the larger megaton weapons.
	But the Soviets have their own GPS system.
	The technology is out there for very accurate weapon delivery systems, but it's not limited to the Soviets.
	You have to understand that the Red Chinese now have their own mobile launch system.
	The United States doesn't even have a mobile launch system for its intercontinental ballistic missile.
	The Soviets have got them.
	You can't track them.
	They run around like cockroaches all over the countryside.
	So you can't target them and take them out.
	And now the Red Chinese have developed a mobile launch system.
	They're putting an unprecedented amount of their national resource into upgrading their military with the vocal intent of world domination.
	Well, I was going to say, what are they going to do with them?
	Uh, we're not about to attack China, near as I know.
	And it's ludicrous that we're giving these people, we are, we've just opened the doors and given them military technology.
	Not only that, we give them the most favored nation trading status.
	And these are the people, when they were having, what was it, three months ago, they were having the naval exercises outside of Taiwan?
	Yes.
	And when we, you know, stood up and said a few things in defense of Taiwan, they said you should be more concerned about Los Angeles?
	That's right.
	What were they saying there?
	They were saying, don't screw with us, or LA's going to go up in smoke.
	Right.
	And now we start looking at North Korea, and they have bought ICBM delivery vehicles from the Chinese, and they've been working on modifying them, and there's reasonable evidence to suggest that they already have nuclear capability.
	That's correct.
	And, you know, we start looking at The proliferation of this technology in third world Arab countries that hate us.
	This gets to be a very frightening issue.
	I know Nostradamus pretty clearly indicated the possibility of a nuclear strike on New York City.
	When you start thinking about the fact that there are more Jewish people living in New York City than there are in Israel, you can see that it's a prime target for an Arab terrorist act.
	There was an interesting movie.
	In fact, I just saw this the other day.
	Have you ever seen that movie, The Dawn's Early Light?
	Yes.
	I thought it was a pretty interesting movie.
	I've seen just about every movie of that genre.
	I love them.
	Alright, here's another one.
	Great show, Art.
	Please ask Phillip if it is better to store food in metal or glass containers?
	And how do you store water?
	Okay, now I go into that in great detail.
	I've got a very extensive chapter on food and water in here.
	I've seen huge amounts of food turn into chicken feed, mainly because people stored it improperly.
	We had a rule in our shelter that if you brought in anything that wasn't either in a number 10 metal can, in a plastic 5-gallon bucket, I've seen people that they thought that because they had an area that was closed and there was no water in it that mice could not live in the environment.
	And they had pallets and pallets of sacked grain and the mice just had a heyday on it.
	I've seen it happen three, four, five different times.
	Glass is fine as long as you've got it properly cushioned so that if there's an earthquake, it's not going to fall over and smash.
	Sure.
	But, you know, the optimum thing is steel number 10 cans because when you open the can up, you've just got a short-term amount of food supply and you haven't opened up a big five-gallon bucket, but it's not necessarily cost-effective to do everything that way.
	They also make these metal, I think they're a four-gallon tin.
	I discuss all this in detail in the book, and I go into all the details on how you long-term preserve food, whether it's with CO2, with nitrogen, or diatomaceous earth, and there's a lot of options there, including what's called MREs.
	I cover that all in detail.
	The other thing is water.
	It's very difficult to store water for long periods of time.
	It just develops algae.
	If you have a water storage tank, you really need to go in there every two months and dump the water, put clean water in, and treat it with Clorox.
	And I've got the percentage of chlorine that you dump in there to chlorinate the water, because water goes bad very quickly.
	Are there not newer technologies like ozone systems Yeah, I go through all of the means of water purification in this chapter, whether it's ultraviolet, whether it's a carbon filter, whether it's reverse osmosis, and I explain all the different options and how they perform and what the pros and cons are of them.
	What I really like and what I try to advocate people do is when you look at where you're going to put a shelter, see if there's any chance, look at the water availability.
	Like in our shelter, we've got a well right inside it.
	And it's not that deep.
	It's only about 90 feet down from the water table.
	We've got an electric pump.
	We've got a backup electric pump.
	We can pull up our supply pipe and change the pump if we need to.
	And we've also got a hand pump in it.
	And we've also got a backup water system.
	You know, I really like the idea of redundancy, but water is a very important issue.
	More people die in time of war from bad water than they do from bullets.
	And I think the most important preparedness thing that anyone should buy, the first thing they should buy is water, a small water filtration unit like the Katadyn unit.
	Yes.
	Because like when the Kurds were fleeing Saddam and they got into these makeshift relocation centers up in the mountains, they were losing half their kids to bad water in those camps.
	Right.
	I'm curious, you built a large shelter.
	Other than your family, which would be obvious, how did you decide who you would include?
	Well, I organized it and put together a corporation and different families bought into it.
	That brings up another interesting chapter in the book called the management chapter.
	There are a lot of people that have an attitude that you can't work with other people and you're best just to go it alone.
	I don't believe that.
	I believe that there's strength in community and there's strength in numbers.
	No one of us is a Mr. Rambo that's a brain surgeon and a diesel mechanic and a good cook all in one.
	We all have a particular facet that we're a genius in, if you know what I mean.
	If you can bring a group of people together and work together, you've got more talent, you've got more resources.
	So then in part, did you pick them for their talent?
	No, no.
	I picked people for their concern and their commitment to making it happen.
	It wasn't me per se because I'm a real advocate of group management as opposed to one little potentate that makes a lot of decisions.
	I organized a team management structure.
	When we built a large facility and we did it on a team management basis.
	So then you would not be the benign dictator?
	Right.
	I'm not a believer in benign dictators.
	I'm into the horizontal management structure.
	I go into this in the management section.
	We learned a lot of lessons on how to draw up agreements, the do's and don'ts of working with a group.
	and how you can make a group effort succeed.
	A lot of it goes back to the motives of the people who start and instigate the project.
	I've seen this over and over.
	If somebody has a less than perfect motive when they start the project, if they're trying
	to make themselves a hero, if they're trying to make themselves some money on the side,
	it usually flavored the project right to the end and created problems, if you know what
	I mean.
	do uh... alright would you be willing to answer questions are
	from the audience Sure!
	I know they've got many of them, and I've got more too, so if you would, hold on, and we'll be right back to you.
	Alright?
	Okay.
	Alright, Philip Hogue is my guest, and by now you ought to know what we're talking about.
	Shelters from whatever.
	Nuclear devastation?
	Chemical?
	Biological?
	Civil disturbance?
	Think any of that could happen?
	Impossible, you say?
	Well, have you got a spare tire?
	Would you come knockin' at his door?
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	The night featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 14th, 1997.
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired January 14th, 1997.
	My guest is Phillip Hogue.
	He's authored a book called No Such Thing as Doomsday.
	I guess, if you prepare.
	In the beginning of the book, a quote from Patrick Henry on threats.
	Quote, we are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth.
	For my part, Whatever anguish of the spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it."
	End quote.
	If you are uninterested in the truth, what might occur, and what you could do should it occur, then you're going to want to tune out now to any one of the other radio stations that no doubt are talking about how somebody picked up Uh, Newt Gingrich's phone call.
	Otherwise, we will continue here in a moment.
	Uh, Philip, uh, welcome back.
	Well, good to be back, Art.
	Um, we're gonna go to the phones and let some of the, uh, audience ask you questions.
	Uh, again, the book, No Such Thing as Doomsday.
	Uh, at least for some people, Some people worry, others prepare.
	Hello Art, my name's Ted, I'm calling from Longview, Texas.
	Listening over AudioNet.
	I don't have a question yet, but I want to tell you about a little something.
	There is a local regional supermarket chain in our area that has a distribution center that services 250 stores.
	And, uh, this supermarket chain, it's widely known, has, uh, has a trained security force which is prepared for the, in the event of a major emergency.
	They have 15-foot perimeter fences around the entire distribution center.
	There are heavy-gauge steel snapper nests all over the tops of the buildings.
	and uh... the security force does train the practice of automatic weapons in the
	event that there'll be some sort of a run on the uh...
	uh... distribution center and i was going to ask uh... philip if there if he
	is heard of any other companies which have planned in place like that
	now i'm that's very interesting and i'd love to see some
	documentation on it uh...
	It doesn't surprise me in the least bit.
	No, I'm sorry.
	I haven't seen anything like this elsewhere in the country, but it stands to reason, especially I would imagine if you investigated around the major population areas, you'd probably see similar situations.
	I wonder if that is a privately done affair, or if it is mandated by the government.
	For example, large radio stations that serve as emergency broadcast centers were mandated by the government, subsidized by the government, to harden their broadcast locations.
	And I wonder if the government might have done the same thing with some food supply centers.
	Do you know, caller?
	No, I do not know if the government has mandated that.
	However, this is a family-owned company that's been around for about 60 years, and they do tend to be much more conservative than the average corporate leadership.
	Well, then maybe it's private sector.
	Very interesting.
	You brought up an important point there, though, Art, about the hardening of broadcast equipment.
	Yes, sir.
	That's another issue that I deal with in great length is called electromagnetic pulse, EMP protection.
	Right.
	And it's another thing people should be aware of.
	All of your government facilities are hardened against electromagnetic pulse, and I go to some detail on explaining to people how they can protect their equipment.
	All right.
	Shielding.
	In other words, EMP shielding.
	Okay.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Phillip Hogue.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Can you hear me okay?
	I hear you fine.
	Where are you?
	This is Will Madison, Wisconsin, listening to the great WTDY.
	Yes, sir.
	I just came back by train, traveling through Russia by a route few Western people take.
	Everywhere in the small train stop stations were still hanging on the walls pictures of Lennon in the conductor's room.
	Oh, I know.
	Not necessarily in the small lobbies.
	Look, I went to a broadcast facility in St.
	Petersburg, and there was Lennon, a big bust of Lennon.
	Trust me, he's right.
	He's all over the place.
	Oh, yes, and one of the towns, the big towns, There still stands a big statue in the square of Lennon.
	No, it's not all over yet until it's all over.
	Now, I have a question of the guest.
	Now, we have a problem, and even Art has mentioned it, and some of his advertisers.
	We are deeply in debt.
	Our debt is not decreasing, but it is increasing.
	That's right.
	And we're fudging with the budget.
	We talk about on budget
	off budget the off budget
	to take care of our paying of the interest et cetera
	the money that they can from our social security from our medicare et cetera et cetera
	it were not very hideous situation i would like to get a guy i don't know how much the guest
	knows about what kind of called a great has gone on in the past
	And I apologize, Art, if I, you know, go into something a little bit.
	And you cut me short if I'm getting on some tender nerves, if you understand what I'm talking about.
	Well, spend less time worrying about that and telling us what you want to tell us, sir.
	Go ahead.
	Okay.
	And I thank you, Collin.
	I thank your holders of your radio network for allowing average people to get on.
	Go right ahead, sir.
	Hit it.
	There has been a sugar daddy who has put a lot of money into a certain politician.
	And these men who play this game, they find young men who they can invest money into, so to speak.
	They're their horses.
	And every now and then these fellas meet.
	They call it the Landau Club.
	They chat with how's their candidate doing, somebody's gotten him in as mayor, somebody as governor, etc, etc.
	Finally, this Sugar Daddy got his horse to the finish line.
	Got him into the nice big tent in Washington.
	Alright, you're going to have to finish this up now.
	What is your point?
	The point is that that man now is Sugar Daddy, Robert Rubin, Secretary of Treasury, and he has made billions playing the high leverage foreign currency derivatives markets.
	And these gentlemen are ruining our currency and our country, and this man may be right on.
	We may have to prepare for something.
	So lastly, how do you prevent yourself from nerve gas?
	Alright.
	I don't know how we got from derivatives to nerve gas, but... Well, we can talk about that.
	There is a little link there between the economic situation and the threat of war.
	Yes.
	We have to look at...
	At a certain level, the United States is being subjected to economic extortion by the old Soviet Union.
	The global group is pumping money into the Soviet Union with the idea that we've got to placate the bear, otherwise we're going to see a rebirth in the Cold War, the dreaded Cold War.
	But, you know, there's some big ironies going on here.
	Here is the Soviet Union.
	They're supposed to be bankrupt.
	But they're going ahead with their weapons programs.
	They're still building nuclear submarines.
	They're upgrading their missile fleet.
	And they have the only operational space station in the world.
	Now, how can this be for a country that's bankrupt?
	It's a good question.
	The other point is, is eight out of nine Eight out of ten of their space shots are military-oriented, and they do more space shots in the U.S.
	It's all a good question.
	I have no answers except to say what we think they are is not what they are.
	Simple as that.
	You know, I would be very concerned with a collapse in the U.S.
	economy because there have been defectors, high-ranking defectors, from the Soviet bloc who have said that part of the plan, the long-term plan, was in the event of a Let's say there was an economic catastrophe.
	Let's say that nuclear weapons did not fall, but anarchy began in this country.
	What would be the coin of the realm?
	What would be the major item that you would want to be holding?
	Well, obviously things of value.
	And things of value Pivot on things that are in demand.
	If there's a shortage of food, food is very valuable.
	Obviously, you know, we've got North American trading out there.
	Gold has always held its value.
	And it's something to be careful about because it could become illegal.
	We've seen that happen in the past.
	The government has just gone out, or the people who control government have absconded that gold.
	Just before they were going to play with the currency, because they didn't want the small guys making games on their little games with the currency.
	But getting back to the logic of international finance, the Soviets have us almost at nuclear blackmail, excuse me, financial blackmail, just over the massive loans that they've got, that if they said, we ain't going to pay, they could destroy the western economy.
	I mean, it's economic warfare.
	Or I believe it was Clancy, I think, who wrote about the possibility of a consortium of debtor nations who would simply suddenly declare they will no longer pay us.
	Entirely possible.
	And the crime of it is that money is the people's money that was loaned by your friendly bankers at rates that American citizens turned to rates that we couldn't get.
	It's a crime.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Phillip Hogue.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I understand, and this has been scientifically proven in court, that some people make machines that make more energy than they use, and such a machine in such a shelter as yours would be great for heating dirty water into steam, which can be turned into clean water again, etc.
	Really helpful.
	Are you willing to contact any people with such machines so that you and they can combine your skills and form an independent community as a warm-up for when the real emergency comes?
	Alright, it's a good question.
	Philip, there are lots of people claiming to have machines that output more than they input.
	I would take it, in the shelter business, you've looked into that.
	Yes.
	I know that that technology exists.
	The E.T.
	is maybe the only one who's got the operational stuff.
	It exists, I just haven't seen it.
	It seems like a million blind trails when you start chasing it.
	If anybody's got it, I'd love to talk to them.
	I've just never found Well, you've been to the shows.
	They've had shows where they claim they have demonstrations going on.
	Well, I have some friends that bought a distributor ship on a small engine that, you know, you can mix a lot of water in with the fuel.
	But I still haven't seen the... I haven't seen it.
	You know, they've got... A good practical operating model.
	Right.
	I just haven't seen it.
	I mean, I've got a very extensive section in this book in extreme detail on how to build Power generation systems, you know, battery storage systems.
	Yeah, but that's conventional.
	That's conventional, but we're waiting for it.
	What it comes down to with these guys is usually you see some sort of machine or engine, and then there's a little black box, and you can't look in the little black box.
	Yeah, I just, you know, I wish somebody would do it.
	I think the fear of loss, I think we've got two things.
	One is fakes.
	And two is, somebody's really got it, but they're afraid to let go of it.
	Sure.
	West of the Rockies, uh, you're on the air with Phillip Hogue.
	Hi.
	Well... Hello.
	Um, I was wondering how much these things cost, these shelters.
	How much do the shelters cost?
	Well, they can cost as much money as you want to throw into them.
	Alright, how much... Or they can cost as little, I mean... Alright, your big 7,000 square foot shelter, how much have you sunk into that?
	Well, that particular shelter, you know, It's pretty luxurious.
	That costs about $6,000 a head.
	But you can do something for as little as $500 a head.
	You can develop a little basement facility and stock it and make use of what you've got there and survive.
	It can be done.
	Where there is a will, there is a way.
	The particular one that I built here is Kind of a Cadillac.
	Armageddon Estates.
	But it can be done on a lesser fashion on a single family or a group of families can do something very cost effectively and I give all the information for the basics.
	What I did with this book is I took a lot of high-level engineering information in many cases and I brought it all down to layman's terms because that's the way I operated Sometimes it would take me weeks of trying to figure out what these guys are saying.
	Many times, people in this field will try to intimidate you with high-level engineering talk as a control factor or as an ego factor.
	But if you really get down to it, it's all understandable.
	That's what I try to do in the book, to bring this down so you can Make your own intelligent decisions and devise your own options.
	Alright.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Phillip Hogue.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Art?
	Yes?
	I'm in Salt Lake and I'd kind of like to know before I go to bed tonight if we're a target area.
	You mentioned target areas.
	Well, Salt Lake's a pretty good target area.
	Wherever you've got fuel refineries.
	I discuss this in the book again and go through potential target areas.
	Fuel refineries, you've got some Pretty good-sized military bases up north of Salt Lake there.
	We also have the Tooele Army Depot, and you know they're destroying chemical weapons there.
	Right.
	So there you go, ma'am.
	But then again, understand that if you live 12 miles away from the facility, and you're downwind, the biggest thing you're going to have to deal with probably is radioactive fallout, and it's not that hard to protect yourself against radioactive fallout particles.
	All right?
	The big thing that's difficult is if you're living close to those targets and you've got to protect yourself against the direct effects of the weapon.
	And I talk about that in the book.
	You know, whether it's neutron radiation, whether it's overpressure or heat, it's very difficult to protect yourself against that stuff.
	And you don't have much time to implement the protective measures.
	All right, ma'am.
	Well, I don't know that I'll sleep tonight, but thank you.
	Sleep tight.
	Ease to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Phillip Hogue.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Oh, yes.
	Good morning, Art.
	How are you?
	Fine.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Port St.
	Lucie, Florida.
	Okay.
	Yes, Phillip, have you heard of a book called The Ultimate Frontier?
	No, I don't think I have.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, in there they say that The final battle of Armageddon will be in 1998, and end in November of 1999.
	And then, as I guess, in May of 2000, there'll be a reapportionment of the Earth.
	McCuller, he's not in the prophecy business.
	He's in the protection business.
	Well, when I'm talking about the reapportionment, what they talk about is a very major reapportionment Where most of the United States will be thousands of feet under the ocean.
	So I don't know how a shelter would help in a situation like that.
	Well, you know, you can look at the worst case scenario and throw up your hands and say, you know, what's the use?
	You know, there's a lot of people that have a lot of philosophies or prophecies.
	You've got Michael Gordon-Scallion.
	You know, he talks about California being underwater or just being a chain of islands.
	You know, I don't know.
	All I can say is I would be very careful of the people that paint a picture of total doomsday.
	I'm going to find it hard to imagine that the United States is going to be completely underwater.
	But, you know, I'm going to make my preparations use common sense.
	And that's what I'm going to do.
	And that's what I recommend you do.
	You know, you may want to get away from large cities and coastal areas.
	We, all we can do is look at the threats and make preparation, you know.
	You know, that's easily said, Philip, but most of the population, uh, lives on the coast.
	As a matter of fact, most of them live in the cities.
	Uh, hold on, we'll be right back to you.
	And we will discuss that.
	That is where the population is.
	In the cities, on the coast.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 14th, 1997.
	This is a remastered version of the original song.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 14th, 1997.
	It is indeed, and if you will run and get a pencil, we will answer the question, where do you get this book?
	So, get your pencil and get ready, because I get requests every day after we give the address or the phone number.
	The name of the book is No Such Thing As Doomsday.
	And it's a sort of do-it-yourself book.
	Very valuable.
	Get a pencil.
	We'll get you that information in just a moment.
	Back to the lines. First time caller line, you're on the air with Phillip Hogue.
	Back to the lines. First time caller line, you're on the air with Philip Hogue.
	Hi.
	Hey, Eric.
	How you doing?
	All right.
	Let me turn my radio off.
	Thank you.
	How you doing tonight?
	I've got a couple questions.
	First is Big John calling out of Tucson, KTUC.
	Yes, sir.
	Today I was out photographing one of the big planes flying around Davis-Monthan here.
	Then this other plane, real nice looking jet.
	I think it was, uh, someone drove by and asked if it was a B... What is it, a B... 52?
	Yeah, a B-52.
	New one, I guess.
	Thing is humongous.
	Outrageous, you know?
	It's an old 1952 vintage bomber that they've upgraded electronically?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	This thing is amazing, though.
	It's like, uh, real sleek and, uh, everything else, you know?
	Well, it may have been, then...
	Anyway, I was able to get a photograph.
	But anyway, my question is, I don't know if you can answer this or not, but I've got a couple acres down by Mexico.
	It's about six miles from the border there, here in Arizona.
	And I was wondering, you know, a lot of people told me that Mexico is a sleeping giant.
	And I was wondering, you think maybe one day, is that true?
	Well, if it's a rural place and it's isolated, and you've got water, I think that it's a viable potential.
	I mean to put a shelter on.
	Well, you know, if it's a rural place and it's isolated and you've got water, I think
	that it's a viable potential.
	In the event of a conventional war, and the Soviets and the Russians have always looked
	at nuclear war as something that they used in combination with conventional warfare.
	There's always the potential that you could see troops moving up through Mexico.
	The Soviets do have some military installations in Mexico.
	Really?
	Had a pawn sitting there in Nicaragua.
	They heavily armed Nicaragua with more munitions and equipment than they ever needed for security forces.
	They had larger and greater plans.
	And you've got your buddy Castro over there, who for years was putting over 50% of the nation's concrete resources into underground shelters.
	He didn't do that for any idle reasons.
	Right.
	That's amazing.
	I didn't know that.
	That's a lot.
	No wonder why they're broke.
	You start looking at the defenses we have south on the southern borders of the United States and it's a joke.
	We've been shutting down military bases.
	Down in that area, the war on drugs is evident because when you come back you get stopped by the army and they check you out and make sure you don't have any drugs, I guess.
	You mean the war on the government's competitors?
	Well, that's a possibility.
	I don't know.
	That's up to you and Art to discuss.
	I'm not an expert there.
	There's Fort Huachuca down there.
	Back in 1993, I guess, they had a bunch of soldiers come back from the war there.
	They were all wearing the blue berets.
	It was the first time I ever saw that.
	Remember that, Art?
	Yeah, oh yes.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, I'll let you go.
	Alright, thank you very much for the call, sir.
	We're on the government's competitors.
	Gotta remember that one.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Phillip Hogue.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Andy in Oklahoma City.
	Hi, Andy.
	I just heard your little short mention by your guest earlier of the possibility that aliens would have some good free energy.
	devices and i wondered if he has said they might have the workable ones
	of where i yeah i think i wondered if you had any serious thoughts on
	possibility of what that might involved as far as you know
	what is thought that are on that well i think it was a facetious comments are
	more more directed toward the uh... observation that there doesn't seem to
	be anything real and workable that we can lay our hands on
	I imagine that.
	On a more serious note, I want to know if he had any thoughts, and I look forward to trying to track down a copy of that book.
	And I did get the information, thanks.
	Is it in bookstores, by the way?
	It's in some bookstores.
	Like any of the larger chains?
	No, it isn't at this point.
	Unfortunately, the common man out there, there isn't enough A big calling for preparedness.
	Your major preparedness suppliers, most of them are carrying the book right now, whether it's the Survival Center, Safe Trek Outfitters, or... Well, I did get the mailing address, and that's good enough.
	All right, good.
	Well, about pole shift, the possibility of such, and what kind of climate controls you may have prepared in your own personal shelter for such, you know, if you are in a certain climate, if there was such an event.
	Well, it might be different.
	It's kind of hard.
	Pole shift is a theory.
	Of course, it's scientifically verified that it's happened many, many times throughout the history of the Earth.
	And we're potentially, give or take 100,000 years, maybe at the point for another one.
	It's kind of hard to tell where you're going to end up when that stuff starts moving, or what the real effects are.
	Uh, that sort of activity, uh, all you can do is bolt your equipment down really well and, uh, you know, what can I say?
	What about an earthquake?
	Now, an earthquake is a definite possibility.
	The key is that buried structures are more or less immune to the effects of earthquakes because they move with the media.
	Now, when you've got a structure that stands up above the ground, the earth moves.
	And the structure tries to stand still, and typically what happens is the house shears off at the weakest point, which is the foundation, and that's why you see all these houses sit in a quarter, two-thirds, or completely off the foundation.
	Now, when it's a buried structure, it moves with the media just like a submarine under the water in a typhoon, as compared to a ship sitting on the surface.
	The only problem is, Phillip, Earthquakes give less warning than ICBM attacks.
	Oh, I agree.
	They're awesome.
	I was in California during an earthquake, and it made me feel so little.
	When the earth shakes underneath you, it just makes you feel insignificant.
	That's right.
	But I think, I want to back up.
	The caller there mentioned something about the ETs.
	You know, I don't know.
	That's a hard one to relate to in terms of the preparedness aspect.
	But I kind of share your views, Art, that when we look at the history of one civilization of a higher technological advancement coming upon one of a lesser technological advancement, it has always resulted in abuse and exploitation.
	Yes.
	And so I'm a little leery of the Space Brothers routine that, you know, you get the faxes coming in and the email.
	Anyhow, we'll move on.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Philip Hogue.
	Hi.
	Oh, hi, Art Bell?
	Yes.
	Oh, hi.
	Great show, as usual.
	Thank you.
	My name is Kathy.
	I'm calling from Chicago, the western suburbs, about five miles from O'Hare Airport.
	All right.
	Target area?
	Target area, indeed.
	Well, I wonder if Mr. Hogue has Have you had any thoughts on how long people would have to be holed up and how many days, rations they might need for different scenarios?
	I realize he hasn't got a crystal ball, but say if it was a limited terrorist attack, how many days before society started to function again?
	Tell us his last name.
	It's interesting.
	The government has actually done some studies.
	They estimated... Well, I've got it in a book here somewhere.
	I don't have the... Forgive me if I give the wrong number.
	They estimated something up to... The fatalities... Let's say a nuclear strike.
	Right.
	Let's say we had a nuclear strike on the populated target areas.
	The target areas that have populations surrounding them.
	Like Chicago.
	The fatalities...
	Would be tremendous, alright?
	But, you would have twice as many people that would die during the first year, according to government studies, from starvation and radiation poisoning because of the breakdown of the infrastructure.
	So, getting back to your question, everybody should have a one-year food supply.
	Now, your question about how long would you have to stay in a shelter, The second most important piece of equipment you can buy, as far as I'm concerned, is a survey meter.
	A radiation survey meter.
	They're a little pricey, but they really tell you if your shielding is working and if it's safe outside.
	Otherwise, you may not know.
	I mean, you're talking about something that's invisible, tasteless, and odorless.
	Alright?
	And the other problem is, in protracted nuclear war, you can have overlapping In other words, the radioactive fallout can carry itself with the prevailing winds from targets upwind and dusk due.
	In a protracted war, not all the weapons are going to fall in one day.
	That's where it's really important, and I've got an entire section here on radiological monitoring.
	It's not that difficult to do, and I explain it in layman's terms.
	Those are a few points.
	Getting back to this government study, what they came up with is in the event of a nuclear war, after the first year, the population of the United States, in terms of the quantity of survivable people, would be back to the population as it was in 1941.
	Wow.
	That's a tremendous reduction in the population of the American people.
	Well, what concerns me, Philip, is A. the Russians, not the Soviets anymore, but the Russians Still have almost all of their long-range, very accurate nuclear weapons.
	And they have a national civil defense network and an ABM system.
	And not a very stable political system.
	And you have to understand that war is a galvanizing factor.
	War is something that draws people together.
	And when you're faced with political breakdown of the system, One thing that can pull people together is war.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Philip Hogue.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	You may remember me from some recently sent email, and this would concern your caller, about the amendment to the Chemical and Biological Warfare Law.
	Ah, yes.
	The amendment stated that in 1982, that was the point that the Department of Defense Had to report to Congress a month before they tested on people.
	Yes.
	But before that law, they only had to report once a year and after the fact.
	Either way, it's disgusting.
	Well, I mean, but after the fact and only once a year is truly ridiculous.
	Well, 30 days notice is ridiculous.
	Certainly, but after the fact is, to a certain extent, even worse.
	And the other thing that I would like to mention is that I know you speak of a lot of books on your program, books that are sometimes hard to find, but as far as I can tell, you can find any book, no matter how rare, no matter how hard to find, at Amazon.com, which I'm sure is a service you've heard of.
	No.
	But the largest bookstore in the world at www.amazon.com, they don't hold all the books at once, but they have connections to suppliers All right.
	Well, thank you very much.
	That's a good resource.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Philip Hogue.
	Yes.
	Have you mentioned anything about Mormons?
	Well, we talked to a lady in Utah.
	out of printer haven't been printed you can find them there normal life alright well thank you
	very much that's a good resource uh... east of the rockies you're on the air
	with philip hoag
	yes uh... have you
	mentioning about mormon well we've got a lady in utah answers no no no
	uh... mormon pretty much as uh...
	uh... tentative faith believe it in being prepared
	and one of One of the things that they normally do is have a year's
	supply of food.
	That is correct.
	So if you don't know where to get a hold of a year's supply of food, which would be packaged in tins, nitrogen and all like that, you might ask a Mormon if you know any.
	In fact, there's a very good Mormon civil defense group out of Salt Lake, run by a lady named Sharon Packard.
	They've been building shelters, one every two or three months, in the Idaho-Utah area, in the Wyoming area, a pretty strong Mormon civil defense group.
	It seems like the Mormon Church is trying to downplay a lot of the preparedness aspects.
	Well, it's not just a good idea to have it in case of a war.
	I mean, suppose you lose your job, you've got a year's supply of food to fall back on.
	It's a very good idea.
	The Mormon Preparedness Program and their Community Preparedness is just a great example.
	They helped in the California flooding.
	There's so many examples where their whole system has just sprung right into action and been a great salvation.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	Are you going to write another book?
	Is this your great work?
	Or where do you go from here, Philip?
	Well, actually, our next project, as soon as the ground thaws, we're going to do some video work.
	We actually want to build a shelter from scratch on video.
	Totally for the layman.
	We want to dig the hole on video, we want to show them how to pour footings on video, and have it a how-to in minute detail on video for the person that wants to build a shelter.
	So we take them from end to end, and a guy that knows nothing and can hardly drive a nail, he can do it himself.
	Alright, you mentioned you know Elizabeth Clare Profitt.
	She has promised me that the next time she does a radio interview, and she has not been doing a lot of them, she would do one with me.
	If you have any sway with her, I would appreciate a good word.
	Okay.
	In the meantime, it has been a pleasure having you on the program.
	Yes, and for those who may have gotten on the log jam trying to get into your website, tomorrow I've got another website that I'm just opening up.
	That's on an OC3 service out of San Francisco and it's really easy to get in and out of.
	I think we just got the text up tonight there.
	But we'll have the graphics up tomorrow, and then... All right, in the meantime, though, our website will get people to your website, right?
	It'll get me to my complete website here in Montana, which has all the graphics and everything on it.
	All right, my friend, I thank you, and we will come back to you and have you back again.
	Thanks, nice talking with you, Art.
	Phillip Hogue, thank you, from Montana.
	There you go, folks.
	Do you feel sheltered?
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from january fourteenth nineteen
	ninety seven the
	the the
	you Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired January 14th, 1997.
	Another hour of just open lines ahead.
	Anything you want to talk about?
	Here we go.
	Anything you want to talk about now is fair game.
	The news?
	Israel looks like it may be making a deal with PLO.
	We shall see.
	That news goes on forever.
	The O.J.
	trial also goes on forever, although it actually may be wrapping up.
	How many photographs of those shoes now?
	The Democrats continue to pummel Newt Gingrich, most lately with the contents of an illegally gathered conversation from a cellular telephone.
	That one is interesting, sort of.
	The supermarket tabloid that had the photographs of the little girl who was murdered has agreed now not to publish any more of them.
	The police have charged the cowboy's accuser.
	Remember that 23-year-old former topless dancer Who falsely accused Cowboy star Michael Irvin and Eric Williams of sexually assaulting her at gunpoint.
	Now she has been charged.
	The problem with the commuter plane now does not look like the right engine at all.
	They're looking at that now.
	It looks like a stall.
	In other words, they tried to make a turn.
	And when they made it, they weren't going fast enough for icing conditions and went down like a rock.
	That basically is the news.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yes, sir.
	This is Joe in Missouri.
	Hi, Joe.
	I've listened to you for about three years now, and I enjoy your program.
	Thank you.
	I just wondered if you've had your attitude since elementary school.
	Yeah, I've had an attitude since then.
	Well, it seems to me that you always have the na-na-na-na, I know something you don't know and I can't tell you about it until later.
	I guess it lends to getting listeners to the show.
	Well, there's one thing about me though.
	I follow through.
	Well, yes, sir, you have.
	If I say there's something I'm going to do, I do it.
	Well, every man has to have his convictions, and I think you do very well.
	I appreciate that.
	And I enjoy your show.
	Thank you, my friend.
	Thank you, sir.
	Take care.
	Yeah, I mean, look, there are secrets sometimes, things I can't tell you.
	For example, since you mention it, there's one right now.
	There is a new affiliate coming that is so big.
	It's so gigantic that I literally burst to want to tell you about it.
	But can I tell you?
	No.
	Will you eventually find out?
	Yes.
	First time caller in line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	How are you doing?
	Okay.
	I have some information for you about some alternative housing.
	I was just listening to the previous caller about the bomb shelters and whatnot.
	Oh, yes.
	I thought you might be interested to know that there is, I'm not speaking on his behalf, mind you, I just happen to know of him by reading some literature, that he builds houses out of recycled materials, tires, aluminum cans and whatnot.
	Really?
	I think the idea would lend itself pretty easily to this type of adaptation, since he's sort of disaster-minded, but not the sort of extreme disasters that Mr. Ho was speaking about.
	More economic disasters or energy failures, this type of thing.
	Well, those are extreme, sir, believe me.
	Well, they're extreme, obviously, but we're not talking, like, you know, alien invasions or nuclear explosions.
	But, you know, anyway... I need a good sponsor for alien invasion shelters.
	Well, hey, the idea involved here, you know, I've been doing quite a bit of reading on it.
	I'm going to be moving to Colorado myself, probably to build one in a couple of years.
	Really?
	Yeah, the idea is that the house heats and cools itself, collects its own rainwater, grows its own food, requires no grid electricity, municipal plumbing, or anything like this.
	Wow.
	And I really liked it.
	I tried to get on the air with the... Could we call it the chia house?
	It would be similar to a chia house, yeah.
	It's an idea that's really a lay idea because it doesn't require any special skills to build.
	He called it an earthship.
	His name is Michael Reynolds.
	He had solar survival architecture in Taos, New Mexico.
	This type of housing is becoming pretty popular out west.
	It's just accessible to people who don't want to spend $140,000, $150,000 on a crappy little house.
	Well, thank you.
	I've always been very interested in underground homes anyway.
	We've got a number of them around here.
	I mean full underground homes.
	They're actually ecologically very efficient.
	And not just in case of war or whatever disaster might occur.
	But as a matter of natural living, they're very, very ecologically efficient.
	Not big on windows, I guess, but... You know, there's a new Japanese technology that allows sunlight to be transferred from the outside to the inside.
	It's really, really, really an interesting technology.
	And that would make underground living bearable.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi!
	You would have been.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Thank you very much.
	I've been trying to get you on the radio here from Chicago.
	Yes, sir.
	But I haven't been able to find a number.
	My goodness.
	WLS Chicago 890.
	890.
	Thanks a lot.
	You're welcome.
	Only I'm in Philadelphia.
	Only you're in Philadelphia?
	Yeah.
	I'm tired of getting you again.
	I switched from Charlotte or Cleveland to Chicago and I can't find it tonight.
	I see.
	Well, I mean, radio conditions being what they are.
	I love you and thanks for so much spiritual wisdom.
	Maybe that's exaggerated, but I wish you'd be more positive.
	We'd all love to have a shelter, but if you think positively, don't let that negative
	stuff happen.
	Thanks for watching!
	You know?
	You prepare, but pray and keep the negative away.
	Well, I think that's what he was saying.
	Look, I'm all for thinking positively.
	But I'm also very aware of what's going on in the world.
	And what Mr. Hoag said was pretty much right on.
	With regard to Russia, China, Korea, The world situation, what may occur, the next few years, what I call the quickening, however you want to put it together, he was pretty much right on.
	Now, there are attitudes.
	Like the guy said, who called me a little while ago, about my attitude.
	There are attitudes.
	And if your attitude is, who cares?
	Then, who cares?
	You know, just live your life.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Yes, sir.
	This is in reference to the guest he had on last night.
	Oh, yes.
	I was unable to listen to the rest of your show, and I don't know if you gave the address for ordering his catalog or not.
	I was just curious if you had that.
	Yes, I gave it, and luckily for you, I saved it.
	Oh, thank you so very much.
	Are you ready?
	Yes, sir, I am.
	It is RR, as in railroad.
	Yes, sir.
	RR1, box 79, 79.
	Clearwater, Nebraska.
	Clearwater... Nebraska.
	Nebraska, got it.
	Zip code 68726.
	68726.
	Yep.
	Alright, is there any other information that I need to provide for this?
	Just ask for the catalog.
	Um, yeah, I mean, I think it was a buck or something.
	Okay.
	Alright.
	Alright, thank you so very much.
	Take care, and I'll look forward to those of you who get the catalog.
	And, uh, call me up and tell me.
	I should get one myself.
	You really ought to send me one for having him on, huh?
	I should have mentioned that.
	Be cool to have on your, uh... You know, even if you don't get the machine, just the catalog on your coffee table.
	Imagine that.
	Time Travel Catalog.
	Out there with National Geographic.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yes, Art.
	Um, this is Pat from Kansas City, Missouri.
	And I have the theory that there are times when death is a blessing.
	There are times what?
	Death is a blessing.
	Death is a blessing?
	Death is a blessing.
	Right.
	Well, I'd... If that's the kind of world I have to live in, I would rather be dead.
	Well, you know, there's a lot of people with that attitude.
	That's cool.
	I mean, just go out, you know, if they give you 30 minutes warning there's incoming, you go out and you Look at the sky, greet your maker, and wait for the flash.
	I mean, cool.
	Well, that was my thought.
	All right.
	Well, good luck, and blessed be.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Morning, Mr. Bell.
	Good morning.
	Oh, Lance from Fort St.
	Lucie, Florida?
	Yes, sir.
	Listen to 1590.
	Yes, sir.
	A little tiny speech.
	I've got a fistful of things for you this morning.
	All right.
	One, the ebonics issue.
	Um, I don't understand why they want to try to get teachers to understand slang.
	You know, children speak, I mean, it's not a black or white issue.
	It's a, it's a slang thing that everybody speaks when they're young.
	You know, I mean, it's not something that, I mean, if you write, you know, something in slang on a test, you know, you shouldn't get credit for it.
	You know, part of the test is, you know, if you can answer clearly and, you know, respond to what's on the paper.
	Well, I think what they were suggesting was, That that is the language, the slang, if you will, that is being used.
	And in order to bring them toward a proper use of English, they're going to deal with Ebonics... Yeah, but I mean... ...on the way.
	Yeah, I can understand, but I mean, slang... I mean, that's all I could conclude.
	That's not something you should bring into school.
	I mean, you should know... I mean, most people who speak slang know that that's not their full language.
	I mean, you know, I mean...
	Right.
	They tried to say it was something from, you know, North African villages from a long time ago.
	Well, I'm sorry, but how many, you know, people do you know that can even speak African?
	More or less a derivative of an African language, you know?
	Not at all.
	Another thing about the airplanes, how people were saying, oh, well, I'm not going to get on an airplane if it was built in 86.
	That plane's, you know, 10 years old or 15 or 20 years old.
	Well, I could understand.
	I wouldn't want to get in a car that, I mean, people, you know, they're compared to a car, you know, Well, Ford doesn't build their cars to last 20 years, you know.
	Boeing builds planes to last.
	And if it's a decent maintenance plan, they did it.
	I mean, if you fix your car as much as they fix their plane... That's true.
	I'm not saying, you know, that every plane gets fixed quite as much as it should, or, you know, somebody, you know, says, oh, I'll catch this next time.
	That's human error.
	I'm talking about, you know, regular maintenance plans that you follow.
	I mean, people, I mean, if you look at, you know, the airbag thing.
	Um, companies, you know, General Motors, and then they, you know, airbags, you know, they figured that out in the mid to late 60s.
	They didn't put it in because they knew, you know, the physics just didn't work.
	I mean, you have a car going 60, you know, people don't realize, you hit a wall or a tree, that's instantaneous stopping.
	And you want an airbag to deploy and to keep you safe?
	That airbag has to come out at 60 or more to keep you in the car.
	Right.
	Well, the physics just doesn't work.
	I mean, a seatbelt is better because it doesn't come at you.
	You know, it's like you hitting the wall and the wall hitting you back to keep you in the car.
	That doesn't work.
	I mean, people were actually putting their kids in the front seats and expecting them... You know, I mean, you don't put kids in the front seats in the first place.
	And if they say, oh, I have an airbag, it's okay.
	Well, you get an offender, the airbag pops out.
	That's human error.
	It's not the company's fault.
	It's your fault.
	You're the one who put the kid in the front.
	Yes, but nobody said you couldn't.
	Yes, they did.
	No, I don't think they did.
	I mean, they are now, but... Well, even then, I mean, when you bought a child seat, you know, for your baby, it says installed in the back seat.
	In the back seat, yep.
	Not in the front seat.
	Right.
	You know, just because you're lazy to put the seat up, to push, you know, to spin the butt, I can understand that.
	You know?
	I don't know how that goes, but I mean, it's just... All right, my friend.
	Thank you very much.
	It's true.
	But I think, in the beginning, When they first came out with airbags, there were no warnings that I knew of about children.
	How about the rest of you?
	First-time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	Oh, I want to thank you for your program.
	It's enthusiastic and fun.
	Yes, it is.
	I have a question.
	Okay.
	Of what purpose does a nuclear holocaust or war serve?
	When, you know, with nuclear weapons and destruction, there's nothing left.
	Well, that's exactly what my guest was saying would not be the case.
	Frankly, I don't know.
	There are scientists who say there will be nuclear winter, the Earth will be poisoned for tens of thousands of years, and then others say, no, nuclear war is survivable.
	Now, I have something else.
	Yes?
	Oh, excuse me.
	My name is Carol from Portland.
	Right.
	Isn't it interesting about the kennel man?
	The bone?
	Oh, yes.
	Because everyone wants them.
	But what's so interesting about this new find is that they may not be Native American.
	Well, that's right.
	That's what the big argument is right now.
	Yeah, now isn't that something?
	Thank you for your program.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Nobody knows for sure.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, cool, Art.
	Hey, you're my night team babysitter.
	Remember me from last time?
	I recall your voice, yes.
	I have MS.
	Yes.
	Yeah, how you doing?
	I finally got through.
	I'm doing fine.
	Good, good.
	I just got over a little episode with my MS.
	I take... Can I say the medication I take?
	Why?
	Oh, it's called Beta-Seron.
	And it gives you, like, after you get your shot, I get it every other day, I get a fever and chills.
	And I just shake.
	Oh, God, it's terrible.
	Bummer.
	I just kind of, like, woke up.
	That is a bummer.
	And so that's why you're awake at night a lot.
	Mm-hmm.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Like, I caught your...
	That was very interesting, what I caught in the last few what he was talking about, the shelter.
	Yes.
	Very interesting.
	We always keep extra food to stuff in the house.
	So, where would you go if something terrible was coming?
	Where would you run?
	I live in Grants Pass, Oregon.
	Ground Zero, no doubt.
	Maybe jump in the river.
	The river's right behind my house.
	Jump in the river?
	I don't know what I would do, but that was the only place I could go.
	We do have a National Guard armory about 5-10 miles away, but by the time you get there, forget it.
	That'd be my guess.
	So you'd just jump in the river, and that way you'd be conveniently floating away.
	There you go.
	Alright, well thank you very much for the call, and good swimming.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi, Art.
	Have you heard of the show What If on the Discovery Channel?
	No, I've done lots of What If shows.
	Yeah, tonight was a really good one.
	It's a show that hypothesizes different things that might have happened in history.
	Yes, and what did they do it on?
	And tonight was a very realistic, documentary-style thing, as if in 1997, Radio telescopes had picked up an intelligent signal from space.
	Oh yes, I knew that was coming.
	And it was really good.
	Alright, alright.
	What was the scenario?
	In other words, they picked it up, and what did they think would be the consequence?
	What they did, it just followed along from 1997 to 1999, from doubt to belief to debate,
	United Nations.
	They held a news conference, realistic news conference, just like they did about the Mars
	rock.
	If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
	In the end, they found out it was a machine, and they theorized, and then they had the real people on that.
	We're in that real conference.
	They interviewed them at the end, and they said, Mr. Shoftik in particular, said that he thought we have to be prepared that if we do pick up a signal and it's from a machine, it could be A machine built by another machine.
	Something about intelligent machines, that just because we're biological, we should be prepared for something else, too.
	Very interesting.
	What did they say the social implications would be?
	Social implications?
	Where everything from the Islamic world, and also militias in this country, saying it was to do with New World Order, and just a scam or something.
	To the United Nations demanding opening the signals to the whole world.
	But it was very interesting.
	The religious people would assume that it was the Rapture Mobile.
	Yes.
	And by the way, I have a habit now, sometimes I do interviews with people, and no matter what the interview is about, like tonight I interviewed some choir members who will be at the inaugural, and at the end, it's because of you, I asked them, what do you know about UFOs?
	Really?
	And she said, she's a member of a church, she said, I believe there's something out there.
	Of course there is!
	Of course there is!
	We'll be right back!
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	tonight featuring a replay of coast to coast am from january 14th 1997
	do you remember that day when you first came my way i said no one can take your place and if you get hurt by the
	little things i say i can put that smile back on your face.
	when it's all right and it's coming up we gotta get right back to where we started.
	Oh What?
	When he found out that his godfather abandoned him..
	Even he did not realize his arbetslosigkeit and yearning for love.
	Thus began his end.
	The end.
	I know a lot of hams listen.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from January 14, 1997.
	I want to enlist the help of some ham operators out there.
	I know a lot of hams.
	Listen.
	I've been getting a lot of faxes and a lot of email about strange signals located generally
	between 5 and about 8 megahertz.
	5 and 8 megs.
	And if some of you would do some listening, some of them in the 5 meg band, some 6 meg band, I would really appreciate the frequencies and I'm not sure what I'm gonna do about it, because every time I've aired one of the frequencies, the signal has stopped.
	And I mean, these really are weird, and I've been listening to signals on shortwave for all my adult life.
	So... I'm not making any claims about what they are, or might be.
	Just that there are some very, very strange signals that have been popping up.
	And if you have a frequency, please send it to me.
	by fax at area code seven oh two two seven
	eight four nine nine or email
	at part bell at the old dot com that's art bell at a all l dot
	and by the way on my up presently sitting up in one of my own chat rooms
	on my web page right now the general
	so if you're able to get in if you have java windows ninety five
	and java come on up into the general chat room and you'll see me there
	you you
	Alright, back to it we go.
	Open lines.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Art?
	Yes?
	Oh gosh!
	This is Morningstar in Las Vegas.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing very well, thank you.
	I can tell you're doing better.
	Thank you.
	You sound like you feel good now.
	A little better.
	I've been finding something.
	I began ringing when the gentleman called much earlier in the program.
	He was speaking about Lenin and Russia.
	There is a statue of Lenin in Seattle, and I'm very interested if anybody can substantiate for sure the rumors that I've heard that Gorbachev is ensconced in San Francisco at our naval base.
	Yes, that's correct.
	And that the Chinese Navy is building a naval base in San Diego.
	Now, that one I hadn't heard.
	No, well, I did hear it from someone who lives in San Diego, and I was just wondering if somebody could substantiate that, because what that does effectively, from north to south, is cover us with communism on the entire West Coast.
	Well, thank you, Morningstar.
	No, I hadn't heard about the naval base, the Chinese naval base in San Diego.
	That's a new one.
	But I do know about Gorbachev, certainly.
	And I definitely know about Russia.
	For those of you who think Russia has really changed, you really have your heads in the sand.
	It has not.
	I could tell you a very embarrassing story, which I will not relate right now, about Moscow.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, Art?
	Yes.
	It's Mike from Grand Junction, Colorado.
	Welcome.
	Okay, listening to your show tonight.
	Gentlemen with the shelters.
	Yes.
	I was wondering if you would press the point about firearms.
	I got in on it late coming home from work, so I didn't hear if there was anything about that.
	Well, yes.
	I mean, it's obvious, and we didn't have to press it.
	If you have a shelter and something really bad happens, and people know you have a shelter, You are going to have to defend yourself.
	It does not take a rocket scientist to conclude that.
	Yes.
	Also, what I'm wondering is if you'd said anything about what the government is doing to our rights for firearms.
	Well, they're slowly closing in.
	I mean, you're asking the obvious, sir.
	Well, yes, sir.
	But I'm just wanting to get that in there a little bit.
	I apologize for the The way I'm doing it, but I think sometimes asking questions of people is better than just giving them the answer.
	I see.
	Alright, well, the answers are obvious.
	Barbara Boxer, as a matter of fact, just introduced a bill that will put, interestingly, seeks to put quality Hi.
	My question pertains to that.
	The guy was talking earlier in the evening.
	and she makes a case that we have quality controls for imported weapons
	why not for those made here first-time caller line you're on the air
	my question uh... pertains to that uh...
	that that i was talking earlier in the evening he said that one of the things that we would want to hang on to it
	because and i never could understand what you should that would be
	you know i mean you know that something that like you know you can't eat you
	can't burn it's not fuel or What good would it be?
	Well, throughout all of history, gold has been a medium of exchange.
	Now, in an emergency, food, weapons, Uh, water?
	Right, right.
	And gold would be staples of... Like if we had to go back to when we were starting all over again with money, then gold would be our standard.
	Well, let me put it this way, sir.
	If you and I were going to make an exchange, let's say you had a lot of food and I didn't.
	Uh-huh.
	Okay?
	You had food, guns, and all the basics, and I wanted something, and I gave you a $100 bill, You'd laugh in my face.
	Right, but I probably would do the same thing with gold, too, because what could I do with it?
	I mean, I could eat, and I could hunt with my weapons and my food.
	That's correct, but there's always going to be a medium of exchange.
	Now, some of it is going to be barter, but when you get down to it, gold is going to be the thing.
	There's no question about it, sir.
	And then do a little bit of research.
	Go back through all history.
	Gold has been the medium of exchange.
	Another thing was that another guy mentioned earlier about that thing on What If.
	If you get a chance, I'd look at that.
	That was really good.
	I saw that tonight, too, and I recommend it.
	If you can get a copy of the tape or something, you should check that out.
	It was pretty cool.
	I wish I had seen it.
	You know, I recorded it.
	I'd be happy to send it to you.
	Would you?
	Yeah, I don't really have your address or nothing.
	Well, I'll give you my address.
	Okay, go ahead.
	It's Art Bell.
	Art Bell?
	Yep, yep, yep.
	Okay.
	P.O.
	Box.
	P.O.
	Box.
	4755.
	4755.
	In Pahrump.
	Pahrump?
	Yes, yes, yes.
	P-A-H-R-U-M-P.
	Nevada?
	Yes, the place destroyed by the Martians.
	Zip code 89041.
	89041 89041 dash dash so Okay, Dash.
	89041.
	4755.
	4755.
	Yep.
	I'll trade you that for an 8x10.
	How's that?
	I got both ones that they showed.
	They showed the one on the earthquakes the night before, and then they showed the one tonight about what if the aliens, you know, what if Roswell, you know.
	Why do you think, why do you think that they are showing programs like this?
	I know exactly why.
	It's a subliminal program to get us thinking in that direction.
	So that when they drop the bomb on us, you know, when they crack it open, it's not going to be that big of a surprise.
	I really do agree, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	I really do agree.
	And again, remember, I am making no claims about signals being heard.
	However, boy, I'll tell you, There have been some very strange signals between about 5 and 8 megahertz.
	And every time I broadcast one, it has disappeared.
	Like that.
	Get me those frequencies, and a group of us will investigate them, and at the right time, make them public.
	But there is something going on.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	You are a wonderful person.
	Well, I don't know about that.
	Well, anyway, this is Tom, listening to you on KEX.
	Yes, sir.
	Yesterday, I was listening to your friend Steve, 7.8.
	That's the killer.
	I've been playing with time travel for years now, and the protocols and rules that control time travel He's got it all wrong, but the thing is that our relationship is between energy and mass, and electromagnetism is a dimension outside of ours.
	A dimension is defined by infinity.
	An infinite quality, a finite quality and a base.
	That's what defines a dimension.
	Well, electromagnetism doesn't have an infinite quality that you can measure in our relationship.
	We're a phase between two dimensions.
	When he jumps into this machine, I don't know what's going on, but the thing is that our
	relationship is that magic 7.8, which you touched on.
	Am I getting confusing?
	To me, you are.
	Yes.
	I mean, the 7.8, I certainly understand that frequency.
	But beyond that, I'm not sure.
	OK.
	Let me make an interesting thought.
	OK.
	There's a distinct difference between Tuesday and New York.
	Tuesday is measured in hours and minutes.
	You can't measure New York in hours and minutes.
	You can't measure Tuesday in feet and miles.
	They're distinctly different things.
	We are a relationship between those two different things.
	Well, what if you're in New York on Tuesday?
	That's the whole point.
	We are.
	That's where we are.
	Consciousness occupies a place between two dimensions.
	We're the relationship between two Distinctly different things.
	Your body occupies inches and feet.
	Your mind, which is the synaptic connections, the dendrites and axons, your mind is not a thing that occupies space.
	Your mind is not a thing that occupies space, it occupies relationships like time does.
	Like anything does.
	Okay, okay.
	Look, I'm not understanding all of this, so let us cut to the chase.
	Okay.
	Do you have a time machine?
	Oh, no.
	I travel in time, but that's different.
	I mean, I do the remote viewing thing.
	Oh, I see.
	Well, that's not the same.
	No, it isn't.
	The thing that struck me was I'm listening to this guy and I'm thinking, just like you were probably, that aside from the fact that he doesn't come over very well, he can't speak very well, besides that, the thing is that he's saying key things that are telling me there's got to be something to this.
	Well, that's what I thought, too.
	I don't go by the way somebody delivers what they say.
	I go by the content of what they say.
	And, um, his delivery was halting, but his content was, um, haunting.
	And, uh, that's why I kept him on.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Is this Herb Bell?
	Turn your radio off, please.
	Got that off.
	There you go.
	Um, you remember when, uh, Dukes of Hazzard were popular in the late 70s?
	I do.
	Okay, then Sheriff Lobo came out.
	And a whole bunch of other spinoffs, like?
	Yes.
	That we weren't trying to gear us to hillbillies.
	And the reason that, uh, there's so many shows about, uh, aliens?
	Yes.
	Is because X-Files sold.
	Because it is popular.
	Yeah, pretty much.
	Entirely possible.
	Probable, actually.
	Well, possible.
	That's all I really wanted to say.
	You do this a lot.
	You say, oh, they're trying to gear us up.
	And I don't think Hollywood knows aliens are coming any more than we do.
	We have, you know, we have theories.
	I mean, I believe in extraterrestrials.
	You'd kind of be foolish not to.
	I agree.
	But are they preparing us?
	Maybe not.
	All they're trying to do is you're suggesting what Hollywood does, and that is sell Movies and TV shows.
	Well, sure.
	There's some of that.
	But, look.
	There's also this.
	There's a reason why all of this is selling.
	There's a reason why it's popular.
	And I just don't... I think that it has more to do with the fact that, at one point, we loved westerns.
	Remember that?
	Or the Dukes of Hazzard, or whatever else.
	There's more to it.
	There is an awakening.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art.
	How's it going?
	Okay.
	This is Dean Vegas.
	Hey, uh, is there any, uh, anti-grab machines besides the Levitron that you, uh, got out there?
	Um, I don't know.
	Uh, I mean, as far as, like, people claiming they got, uh, zero-g devices?
	Um, yes.
	I'm working on a couple of others, yes.
	Okay, because, uh, um, what would you think would happen if you shot And, uh, weight up in one direction, the opposite direction of gravity.
	I think that it will come down and hit you on the head.
	Right, well, if it came down softly at a soft angle, and it hit and canceled out its weight at the top of its, uh, oval, what's gonna happen?
	It's gonna cancel out most of its weight at the top part of its track system.
	Trajectory, yeah.
	Right, exactly.
	So all that weight is gonna stop there dead, but it's gonna be Driven into the top part of that machine.
	Like the Road Runner.
	Uh, yeah.
	Sort of.
	Exactly.
	Yes.
	You kind of.
	Visually.
	Yes.
	But now imagine weights going around like clackers.
	You remember clackers?
	Yes.
	Those things you clack together?
	Sure.
	Okay, if you had something that spun clackers around with like weight balls on the end of them.
	And they clacked at the top.
	Yes.
	Do you realize how much energy would be distributed I know, but why don't you run the test and let me know?
	I will, I'm gonna, and remember, I am T from Vegas.
	I've got you.
	Okay, buddy.
	Thank you, T. East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	If you read some of the well-documented books about, say, Felix Green and Noam Chomsky, Chomsky, you learn some things such as Republican Senator Arthur Vanderburg advised Republican Harry Truman in the late 40s that he had to scare the hell out of the American people, as he put it, Against the Soviet Union to justify Truman's plans for a massive network of military bases and military interventions around the world.
	To justify this, he said he had to enlist the aid of the corporate media and scaring the hell out of the American people to shift the blame to the Soviet Union and the foreign threat.
	And I think that that's the really politically correct propaganda we've been subjected to.
	And I find it really especially hypocritical and infuriating that Some of these right-wingers, like your guest Phillip Holt, try to disguise themselves as so-called for-the-people populists swimming against the politically correct tide, when they're doing just the opposite.
	They are actually surfing on, parroting that ocean of politically correct Cold War, anti-Soviet, foreign threat, scaremongering propaganda that the A military-industrial complex interlocked... In other words, you think the whole Cold War was a bunch of BS, is what it boils down to, right?
	Well, I think... You're wrong, sir.
	Well, I think, you know, it's very easy... Sir, you're wrong.
	It's very easy... No, no, no.
	Sir, you're sir, sir.
	I'm not... You're sir, sir, sir.
	You're wrong.
	The Cold War... No, I'm not wrong.
	Forget Red Dawn, sir.
	Take a look at the... Are you familiar with the SS-18?
	Hello?
	Sir, answer the question.
	Are you familiar with the SS-18?
	Not in detail.
	Oh, that's too bad.
	Because if you were, you couldn't possibly make the kind of statement you're making.
	These are missiles with multiple re-entry warheads designed to take our cities out, and they're still there.
	So don't feed me this there's no threat baloney.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi Art.
	About your condition, you might possibly have strep throat.
	I don't know if you've considered that, but a lot of people, including me in LA, caught this.
	Well, I might have strep throat.
	And it wears you out for a couple days.
	I might have cancer.
	I might have leukemia.
	I might, uh, have a cold.
	Who knows?
	He has a great bigotry.
	Gets you real sick for a couple days, and you feel drained.
	Weeks and weeks, and he doesn't kick with anything but, uh, but, uh, antibiotics.
	That helps a little bit.
	Look, do me a big favor.
	Say goodnight, America.
	Goodnight, America, from the Art Val Show.
	That's it.
	We're out of time, everybody.
	You have a great night, and I shall heal, I think.

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