Phillip Hoag warns of escalating global threats—nuclear proliferation, biological warfare (like anthrax), and government overreach—citing Soviet-era civil defense (70% population sheltered) as a model the U.S. abandoned despite retaining offensive capabilities. He advocates for self-sufficient shelters with food/water for 18 months, air filtration, and redundancy against EMP or sabotage, dismissing "nuclear winter" claims while emphasizing radiation decay within weeks. Callers debate private security (e.g., Texas supermarkets with sniper nests), economic instability tied to geopolitical extortion, and gold’s role in collapse scenarios, where Hoag argues it could become illegal if governments manipulate currency. The episode blends disaster preparedness with fringe theories—HAARP, over-unity machines, and Cold War-era propaganda—ultimately framing survival as a mix of practical resilience and distrust of systemic narratives. [Automatically generated summary]
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening and good morning, as the case may be across all these many time zones.
From the Hawaiian and Tahitian Island chains, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Art Bell.
Well, good morning, everybody, and good morning in Canada.
One of our new affiliates, CPUN, C-F-U-N-A-M, Vancouver, British Columbia.
50,000 big non-directional watts on 1410.
Great to have you on board.
We've been hoping to get on CPUN during the week.
They've been with us on Dreamland for some time, and now they join us during the week.
If we are lucky, we are going to connect with somebody named Philip Hoag here shortly.
And he has a very, very interesting book that's called No Such Thing as Doomsday.
Which is an interesting title.
And actually, I guess that's the way we're going to begin our discussion with him about it.
It should be very, very instructive indeed.
He's actually a preparedness expert.
Prepared for what?
Prepared for all kinds of things.
The Soviet threat gone?
Really?
Maybe not.
At any rate, we'll try and connect with him here in a moment.
The End Are you a survivor?
You may find out tonight.
The book is no such thing as doomsday.
The author, Philip Hogue, lives in the state of Montana with his wife, Arlene, and their five children.
Philip has a long involvement in preparedness.
He organized, designed, and helped team manage the building of a large underground shelter project.
Underground.
The project is one of the largest civilian-built underground shelters in the U.S. He also organized a local volunteer fire department and later, with one of his associates, started a volunteer ambulance service, which they currently operate.
Philip lectures and gives classes on the subject of shelter building and preparedness.
He's written articles, which have appeared, in American Survival Guide.
He's been interviewed on numerous radio talk shows, now another.
He does consulting in the area of shelter design, systems, and organization.
And I think that what we're seeing here in what I would refer to as the end of the age is we're seeing an acceleration of events.
And I think all of us on certain levels, or I should say many of us, are tuning in on the level of the mass unconscious.
And we're getting an uneasy feeling that things are not right.
And when you turn around and start looking at what's going on in the nation and the world, we're seeing a lot of things that are moving toward a point of resolution, a kind of convergence, whether we're looking at the economy,
whether we're looking at international politics, whether we're looking at the environment, whether we're looking at an increase in earth changes, whether it's seismic activity or volcanoes.
What I think we're seeing is an acceleration whereby at one hand we're seeing a spiritual awakening and at the other hand we're seeing kind of a throwing off of planetary darkness.
And I think that it's really the uneasiness that a lot of people have is kind of a foreshadowing that we're seeing of future coming events.
And the reason I wrote this book, and I invested ten years into research and study and preparedness and actual activity, was to help people make their preparedness.
I know that your show has been very instrumental in waking people up to things that seem to be coming in the future.
I mean, whether it's taking people into regression through hypnosis and moving them into the future, whether it's near-death experiences, whether it's Hopi Indian prophecies, we see the same thing coming from a lot of different directions.
Well, let's talk about the old reason to have a shelter.
I remember when I was a child, oh, we would have drills in school and duck and cover and we'd all get under our desks and nuclear weapons were going to come flying in at any moment.
When they did, your desk would protect you.
And people built shelters and worried about the communist threat.
And today, in the popular press, the understanding or misunderstanding is a better way to put it, is that the nuclear threat is all gone.
We don't have to worry about that.
Finally, a generation out from under the nuclear Holocaust a possibility.
No, and in fact, it's very interesting that it was politically correct back in the 60s to build fallout shelters.
But it's very politically incorrect in the eyes of media, the media, the mainline media today to make any preparedness preparations.
And it's kind of ironic because really, just from the nuclear standpoint, the threat factor is 100fold greater today than it was in the 60s because we have a proliferation of nuclear technology into third world countries who basically hate us and I might say for very good reasons many times.
And unfortunately, it's not just limited to nuclear technology.
The thing that really frightens me equally as much as nuclear technology is the fact that we're getting a proliferation in biological warfare technology.
In fact, a lot of the shelters that I've built, when I build a shelter, I don't build it strictly to deal with a nuclear threat.
I look at the biological threat, I look at the nuclear threat, and I also look at the natural disturbance threat, whether it's a massive earthquake or some of the very etheric things that people talk about, like pole shift and things that are kind of scientifically hard to get a grasp on in the immediate future, but there are potential out there.
But just looking at the biological threat, the main problem in biological is human contact and also depending on how it's dispersed, if it's an agent that's actually dispersed through the air through an aircraft and dusted onto a large area, the stuff is in the air and it's airborne.
If you know that this is going on, of course, then you can go into your shelter and if you have an air filtration system there, you can isolate yourself until the exposure period is over.
Now, the very scary thing about biological agents are that many times, like in the case of anthrax, you're not going to know that you've been exposed or that an act of biological terrorism has occurred until long after the fact.
In fact, when you start seeing the symptoms, it's going to be too late to treat the disease.
All right, since you've researched this a little bit, obviously from the point of view of protecting oneself against, say, a biological threat, if you were, Philip, a terrorist, and you wanted to kill massive numbers of people, how would you do it?
Now, there is good detection equipment for chemical warfare threats, but we talked about this earlier, and we ought to probably clarify it for the listening audience.
The chemical threat is not as serious as the biological and nuclear threat, because chemical weapons are deployed in small geographical areas.
they disperse very quickly with wind, and you cannot blanket a large area with chemical agents.
Now, you know, obviously, you know, people that are really serious about preparedness, the first thing I tell them is if you really want to do something, you need to get out of highly populated areas because you're very vulnerable and dependent in these areas.
They're going to be the targets, and not only to nuclear, chemical, or biological type situations, but you also have to understand if there is any natural upheaval, if there's an earthquake.
We've got a very fragile infrastructure in this nation.
We're very decentralized, excuse me, we're very centralized in our food and water and power distribution.
When I was young, a lot of the thinking was if there was a nuclear war, and I suppose this might translate to a biological assault as well, you might not want to be a survivor.
I think that in the mainline media, we've been barraged for years with propaganda from the unilateral disarmament groups.
And, you know, they have certain jargon like nuclear winter, like the earth will be sterilized for a thousand years.
This is absolutely, totally unscientific and not true.
It's very easy to survive nuclear war if you've made preparations.
If you've made preparations to protect yourself for 14 to 30 days from fallout, radioactive fallout from the detonation of the nuclear weapon decays very quickly.
Now another thing that they try and mix around and confuse people with is they start talking about Chernobyl.
Chernobyl is a completely different situation.
The byproducts of a nuclear reactor can take thousands of years to decay.
The decay rate of the gamma, alpha, and beta rays produced in nuclear fallout from the detonation of a nuclear, tactical nuclear weapon, are very quick, very quick.
And this, you know, I think that type of action would strictly be a terrorist action because you have to understand from the point of view of real nuclear war, whether it involves the now reformed Soviets or the Red Chinese,
the whole tactic, when you look into communist war philosophy, is not to destroy and devastate a country, but to inflict minimal damage to the point that you can take over and use the resources.
Somebody named Bill in Rockport, Missouri, Centafax just now, and said, Art, ask Philip, does his perspective on the future reflect generally the current views of Elizabeth Prophet?
I'm not really sold onto the whole psychic situation.
I think it's a can of worms.
And depending on which way the wind is blowing, that's the kind of result you get out of it.
Elizabeth Claire Prophet represents herself as a prophet.
And she does not necessarily come out and say that such and such is going to happen on such and such a date.
I think her basic message is, and you have to understand I'm not a representative of their organization, but I can tell you what I read to be her basic message is that we're coming to the end of the age, and we're coming to what you would refer to as a karmic resolution.
And that it's not that she is saying that there is going to be nuclear war, but she's saying that we're moving to this point of resolution and people are very naive to the threat of nuclear war and that people should prepare for it.
In the same sense, that the potential for the Earth itself, I mean, I kind of look at the Earth itself almost as a living organism.
And if you look at nature, nature has always exhibited the ability to throw off situations of disease, of overpopulation.
If there's an overpopulation of a species, there's a natural counterbalance that comes into play, whether it's a natural event, whether it's a predator.
And I kind of look at the situation of mankind at this point that we're moving to a point where we may look at a natural resolution to the problems that we're not dealing with.
Now, these are not foregone conclusions.
You know, the future is not set in concrete.
And no Sir Damas even alluded to this.
It's a pliable element.
We create the future from our position today.
But we have to be careful that we don't get euphoric.
I run into people when I go to preparedness shows, and they'll come up to me and say, you have a bad attitude.
I don't need any of this because I think positive.
I say, now, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Come on over here.
I say, now, do you own a car?
The guy says, yeah, I own a car.
I said, do you drive a car?
He says, yeah, I drive a car.
I say, does your car have a spare tire?
He says, yeah.
I said, would you take a long trip, a thousand-mile trip, without a spare tire?
He goes, no, of course not.
I said, then why the heck would you consider living in a nuclear age with a proliferation of biological and nuclear technology out there and a lot of third world countries that hate us, why would you travel through a nuclear age without a spare tire in your trunk?
I said, preparedness is your spare tire.
Obviously, if you decided to go on that long trip and you knew there was nails scattered on the road, wouldn't it be a little foolish to say I'm going to protect myself with a positive attitude?
Well, he stuttered and stammered and stumbled away.
He couldn't argue with me.
And, you know, this is the point, you know, that I think Elizabeth Claire Prophet has tried to make.
You know, she's gotten a lot of bad rap from the media being a doomsdayer.
I mean, my attitude is I have a different attitude about preparedness.
I mean, there's several preparedness camps out there.
There's one camp of people that look at it from a purely survival point of view.
Now, I'm not in this to save my skin.
I'm in this out of a sense of mission.
And I believe, and my goal, is to get to the other side.
I think we've got a storm coming.
I can't tell you the wind speed or the wind direction and velocity, but I can tell you there's a storm on the horizon.
I can't tell you how high the waves are going to be, because I don't profess to have a crystal ball.
But I'm looking on getting to the other side.
And the reason I'm looking to get to the other side is I think there's going to be a brighter day.
And I want to retain and carry through my values, spiritual values, and I want my children to get to the other side to carry these things on.
I mean, I really believe that all of us, you know, sooner or later we're all going to die, let's face it.
And that's one thing I really deal with in my book that, you know, very other few people, very few people have really dealt with is how to deal with death and dying.
I mean, in our society, we like to shove that back in the corner, you know, and we don't like to deal with it.
But that's something that we may see on the future.
And my attitude is we all need to do our best and prepare.
You know, and if our number's up, our number's up.
You know, many of us have philosophies, the ongoing nature of life.
And I also do.
And I don't really fear death.
I've had near-death experiences in the past.
But I have a sense of mission.
And that's why I prepare, and that's why I suggest other people prepare.
And what I've tried to do in this book is make a how-to book of how to turn your concern into action.
I think your show has been phenomenal in waking people up, and they've got concern now.
And what I come through on this book is how to take that concern and actually translate it.
A lot of people that are listening to you right now live in the middle of Los Angeles, San Diego, Seattle, Chicago, you name it, you know, the big cities.
And number one, you need to get a long-term food storage program.
And a lot of people now, this gets really bad-mouthed in the mainline media.
Anybody who puts aside long-term food storage is a hoarder.
And that is just a very distorted view of the situation.
If you put away long-term food storage when there's an abundance of food available, you're making it easier for everybody else because you're not going to be competing for food rationing when it happens.
So it should be encouraged.
But the reason that certain elements in the government don't like this is because it makes you less dependent.
Well, I think, you know, and I cover this in the book.
When you look back to what the Soviets did to the people in the Ukraine, they created an artificial, they couldn't subjugate the people, so they created an artificial famine.
There were tons of food in the warehouse, and they starved millions of people.
And when you start looking at weather modification technology and some of the stuff with HAARP and the capabilities of modifying weather, and you start putting together the big picture, it's a marvelous tool for controlling people to control food.
You could have all the guns in the world, and if you did not have food, the day would come or the hour would come when you would gladly say, here's my guns, give me some food.
Well, that's very interesting, too, because, you know, I don't have this in my hand, but from reliable sources, some friends of mine came up with some documentation from the U.S. Department of Agriculture stating that USDA offices, which would be your food rationing centers, would also be gun collection points.
So when you equate the two, we're seeing that there would be no food rationing without the surrender of firearms.
Well, most of the shelters that, you know, let me go back to square one here.
I started out at a point that I was concerned about preparedness, and so the natural thing that I did that a lot of your listeners out there will try and do is I'm going to contact FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, and I'm going to see if they have any information on how to prepare.
And so I did that 10, 12, 13 years ago.
And they send you out these Xeroxes of 1960 brochures.
And they were virtually worthless.
There really wasn't any information there that was comprehensive, that was usable, that was in any way effective.
So the scenario that they were using back on the 60s was the old doomsday scenario.
That if we had a nuclear war, the Russians would fire off all their weapons, and the U.S. would fire off all their weapons.
And then the dust would settle, and then after 14 days, the radioactivity would decay to the point that we could all come out and start the new age, rebuild civilization.
Well, that is a really outgrown scenario.
The new scenario for nuclear war is protracted nuclear war, which could go on for several years.
You know, all those people that you talked about that have rose-colored glasses, don't think about, don't care about preparedness, the one that you lectured about the spare tire?
Philip Hoag is my guest, and he has authored a very comprehensive book called No Such Thing as Doomsday.
We'll get back to him.
He builds shelters.
Biggins.
7,000 square feet.
That's a big, big underground shelter.
The End All right, back now to Philip Hogue.
And I would ask my audience to ask yourself, if something occurred, nuclear, biological, chemical, natural, whatever, would you be one of the people in a shelter, in an area where you had food and water and some sort of electricity, or would you be one of the people knocking on somebody's shelter door?
Which category would you be in if that occurred right this minute?
And right at the top of the hour, I said, look, if something awful happened, biological, even chemical, nuclear, whatever, earth changes, a lot of people know, now even more, that you've got a big shelter.
Lots of food, lots of other stuff.
They're going to come knocking at your door.
I remember an old Twilight Zone where people went down into the shelter.
Number one, if you build a shelter, you really need to consider the security factor.
Because a shelter is a very vulnerable thing.
I mean, you can make strong doors on it, but no matter how well you design your system, your air supply is very vulnerable.
When you're in a shelter, you're like being under the water with a snorkel.
And so, you know, this is something you have to look at.
And now, a lot of times when you make security preparations, people will accuse you of being anti-government and doing this because you're planning some confrontation with the government.
I think they've gotten a lot of bad misrepresentation.
I'm not a member of the militia.
But what I would like to say is that the reason I make security and I advocate making security preparations is not because the threat of government, but the concern that in a crisis there might not be enough government.
As a matter of fact, even in the lesser disasters, I'll tell you something.
Up in Washington, in eastern Washington and elsewhere, when the power went out, the lines went down, the ice got on the lines, everything went down, Frankly, a lot of civil authorities told people, you're on your own.
And that was a minor matter compared to what could occur.
And unfortunately, but true, I think that in a real emergency like we saw the story of Noah, all those people that mocked him while he was building the ark, they all came banging on his door when the water started rising.
Now, I really believe that Noah, could he have opened the door, would have opened the door and let the people in.
I think he was a big-hearted guy.
The problem was, if God had let him open the door, those people would have thrown him and the animals overboard.
Sure.
So basically, what I cover in my security section in the book is I discuss this issue and I go into some very practical things that people can do.
But the bottom line is I think everybody has a moral responsibility, if they own a shelter, to fill it to the capacity of the life support systems.
And now what I mean by life support systems is you can't just put an infinite amount of people in a confined space underground.
You have to circulate air through it.
And I have a very comprehensive chapter in this book on air supply systems, air filtration and whatnot, and how to calculate how many people your air supply system will support.
Because oxygen is not the issue.
It's CO2 buildup.
And when people breathe, they give off CO2.
And if you're not moving enough ventilation through there, CO2 levels quickly rise to a level where it starts killing people long before you've used up the oxygen.
Now, while they have not sponsored a big effort for the civilian population to build shelters, for some reason they have felt a need to build them for themselves.
And he very comprehensively goes through and lists all the known shelters.
I mean, he infers the presence of some very deep underground tunneling, which he can't substantiate, but he can show you, he documents in that book the existence of the planning work that went into it and the patenting of the technology to accomplish it.
In fact, there was an interesting story about they built a lead-lined vehicle for getting government members out of Washington, D.C. I think they finally figured out that they weren't going to be able to get them out by helicopter.
And the only thing I could figure that this thing must be a track vehicle that can drive over the top of the civilian cars that have jammed up the interstate.
It's kind of a sad scenario, but the government has made extensive preparations.
In spite of downplaying it, the federal emergency management facilities around the country in the regional centers.
I went down to the Denver facility.
They've got in downtown Denver there, they've got a mile square federal block there, and they've got the regional FEMA center there.
And we walked up, and it was sort of impressive, and it had this, you know, combination push-button thing on the door, you know, to get in.
And so we stood there until some guy came up and pushed the buttons, and then we just walked in behind him.
Well, now that is the weak link right in other words for any shelter underground you've got to have access to air at some point somewhere above ground right and if these guys who are coming knocking on your door uh if they get angry uh because you're not letting them in which you're not gonna uh they're gonna go looking for your air supply right right um you know we've we've designed countermeasures for that uh but
The other thing is, is I really emphasize we have a very comprehensive communication section, is having the ability to communicate with the authorities.
And communicate with the authorities and say, hey, I've got a problem here.
And, you know, I really wish if I had the money and the resources, I could fulfill myself in life just going out and building shelters for the civilian population.
And I think our government has an obligation to do this.
What people don't realize is Oak Ridge Laboratories spent, I think, close to 12 years after they developed the bomb, developing civil defense technology.
And then the Soviets took that technology.
They took it and they applied it.
We find some...
something in the McNamara period of time called the Mad Treaty it's called mutual assured destruction and what that means is that the Soviets are going to hold our civilian population as a nuclear hostage and we are supposed to be able to hold the Soviet population as a nuclear hostage.
As soon as the ink got dried on this treaty where we promised we wouldn't develop a national civil defense network and they promised that they wouldn't because the whole idea is if neither of us have civil defense, neither of us would initiate nuclear war because it would result in the destruction of our civilian population.
As soon as the ink was dried, they developed a national civil defense program.
Not only that, they borrowed money from Western banks and built blast-hardened facilities for the KGB and all the branches of the military and the Politburo.
So this is not the end of it.
Okay, then we came to the ABM Treaty, the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.
Now, what most Americans don't realize is even if there was an accident, all right, say there was an accidental launch, something went haywire, and a Soviet weapon got launched at the United States, we do not have a means of stopping it.
You see these water containers, they're using them for trash cans in the county building.
You know, a government shelter, a civilian government shelter is nothing more than a good place to die, you know, at this point in the face of a national emergency.
But then again, they've made adequate preparations for the government officials themselves, the high echelons of state government.
I have a chapter called Shelter Types, and it's not limited to just below-ground shelters.
It discusses basement fall-out shelters and some very expedient measures, including using tunnels and mines, and using the shielding from commercial buildings.
There's a lot of options.
You're not strictly limited to a high-tech, very expensive operation.
There's a lot of options and expedient things that people can do.
It can be done.
And my attitude is where there's a will, there's a way.
There's a divine solution to every problem if we pursue it.
Like in my shelter section, what I basically do is I go over the pros and cons of every option.
There is no silver bullet in the universe.
Everything has its pros and cons.
And like, for instance, a basement shelter.
The drawbacks of a basement shelter is that if you are, say, potentially in a target area where there's going to be overpressure, there's always a danger that if you have a shelter in a basement, that the house could collapse on top of you, that there could be a fire in the area which could produce CO fumes which are heavier than air that could kill people in basements.
This is predominantly the people that were in shelters in the Drisden bombings in Germany during World War II.
Most of the people in shelters that died died from CO poisoning, from the heavier than air gases.
And so that's the real drawback to a fallout shelter.
Now, if you're not near a, quote, target area, if you're 12 miles away from a known target, then you're not going to be affected by overpressure.
And a fallout shelter has many advantages.
One, everything is very near at hand.
Two, it's a multi-use space.
And I discuss how to construct shielding in a basement shelter.
I've got it all in the book here.
As long as you construct the proper shielding, you've got a lot of things very near at hand.
You don't have to go far to get into it.
You just run downstairs.
And like I say, that's a space that is not just solely dedicated to being a fallout shelter.
It can be a rec room.
It can be a TV room.
It can be an exercise room.
There's a lot of creative use you can make for that space.
So a basement shelter is probably one of the most cost-effective means that you can employ.
Now, when you start looking at large commercial buildings, I've got a whole chapter in here that I talk about radiation shielding, alright, and how to calculate it.
If you've got the basement in a large building, you've got a lot more radiation shielding setting up on top of you.
You can look around and see what sort of available commercial structures there are in your area and see if there's one that's got some pretty good shielding into it.
The considerations you have to look for is, number one, you're going to need a source of water.
Now, a lot of times in a large building, there's a standing reservoir of water sitting above you in the entire plumbing system.
There's hot water heater tanks in your basement a lot of times.
There's a lot of expedient things that you can draw on for water.
That's an important factor.
Generally speaking, it's not that hard to deal with radioactive fallout in terms of air filtration.
You know, the old school of thought, they get into using these expensive Swiss-made carbon air filtration systems, but you only really need those systems if you are very close to a target area.
And I tell people, man, if you live close to a target area, you need to move.
That's the most cost-effective thing you can do.
You know, because even if you had the best shelter in the world, you know, a state-of-the-art built by the Rand Corporation in your backyard, you know, the first thing you may know, the first thing you may realize that you've got a problem is the flash.
And at that point, the neutron radiation just cooked you.
You're running from the door.
Even if you beat the overpressure to the door, the neutron radiation just is after you if you're that close.
Well, it's not hard to figure out if you're in the wrong place.
And the other thing that the unilateral disarmament groups have perpetuated to the mainline media is that the whole United States is going to be devastated.
That's not the case.
And I've got the charts and everything in my book that show you what the overpressure and the heat effects are from the detonation of both groundburst weapons and airburst weapons.
And I talk about the whole technology of weapons and the detonation of weapons and what the effects are on populated areas.
And if you're out 12 miles away from a groundburst, you're not even going to hardly feel the wind from that thing on a one megaton weapon.
And most of the weapons in the U.S. and Soviet arsenal have been tailored down to kiloton weapons because of the effectiveness of multiple warhead weapons and you get more bang for your buck out of multiple smaller weapons than you do Out of the big weapons, you know, the 50 megaton.
You know, they only carry those around right now for taking out major hardened targets.
From all the intelligence people that I've talked to, you know, in the old days in the 50s, they were very inaccurate, and that's part of the reason for the larger megaton weapons.
But the Soviets have their own GPS system.
The technology is out there for very accurate weapons delivery systems.
But it's not limited to the Soviets.
You have to understand that the Red Chinese now have their own mobile launch system.
The United States doesn't even have a mobile launch system for its intercontinental ballistic missiles.
The Soviets have got them.
You can't track them.
They run around like cockroaches all over the countryside.
So you can't target'em and take them out.
And now the Red Chinese have developed a mobile launch system.
They're putting an unprecedented amount of their national resource into upgrading their military with the vocal intent of world domination.
And now we start looking at North Korea, and they have bought ICBM delivery vehicles from the Chinese, and they've been working on modifying them, and there's reasonable evidence to suggest that they already have nuclear capability.
And, you know, we start looking at the proliferation of this technology in third world Arab countries that hate us.
And this gets to be a very frightening issue.
I know Nosrdam has pretty clearly indicated the possibility of a nuclear strike on New York City.
And when you start thinking about the fact that there are more Jewish people living in New York City than there are in Israel, you can see that it's a prime target for an Arab terrorist act.
There was an interesting movie.
In fact, I just saw this the other day.
Have you ever seen that movie The Dawns Early Light?
I've got a very extensive chapter on food and water in here.
I've seen huge amounts of food turn into chicken feed, mainly because people stored it improperly.
We had a rule in our shelter that if you brought in anything that wasn't either in a number 10 metal can, in a plastic five-gallon bucket, or in a 55-gallon steel drum, then it was up for grabs.
The main reason is the main enemy to long-term food storage is mice.
I've seen people that they thought that because they had an area that was closed and there was no water in it, that mice could not live in the environment.
And they had pallets and pallets of sacked grain, and the mice just had a heyday on it and ruined it.
I've seen it happen three, four, five different times.
Glass is fine as long as you've got it properly cushioned so that if there's an earthquake, it's not going to fall over and smash.
But, you know, the optimum thing is number 10, steel number 10 cans, because when you open the can up, you've just got a short-term amount of food supply, and you haven't opened up a big five-gallon bucket.
But it's not necessarily cost-effective to do everything that way.
They also make these metal, I think they're a four-gallon tin.
I discuss all this in detail in the book, and I go into all the details on how you long-term preserve food, whether it's with CO2, with nitrogen, or diatomaceous earth.
And there's a lot of options there, including what's called MREs.
I cover that all in detail.
The other thing is water.
It's very difficult to store water for long periods of time.
You know, you can, if you have a water storage tank, you really need to go in there every two months and dump the water, put clean water in, and treat it with Clorox.
And I've got the percentage of, you know, chlorine that you dump in there to chlorinate the water, because water goes bad very quickly.
Yeah, I go through all of the means of water purification in this chapter, whether it's ultraviolet, whether it's a carbon filter, whether it's reverse osmosis, and I explain all the different options and how they perform and what the pros and cons are of them.
What I really like and what I try to advocate people do is when you look at where you're going to put a shelter, see if there's any chance, look at the water availability.
Like in our shelter, we've got a well right inside it.
And it's not that deep.
It's only about 90 feet down to the water table.
We've got an electric pump.
We've got a backup electric pump.
We can pull up our supply pipe and change the pump if we need to.
And we've also got a hand pump in it.
And we've also got a backup water cistern.
You know, I really like the idea of redundancy, but water is a very important issue.
More people die in time of war from bad water than they do from bullets.
And I think the most important preparedness thing that anyone should buy is the first thing they should buy is water, a small water filtration unit, like the catadyne units.
Because like when the Kurds were fleeing Saddam and they got into these makeshift relocation centers up in the mountains, they were losing half their kids to bad water in those camps.
And I go into this in the management section, and we learned a lot of lessons on how to draw up agreements, the do's and don'ts of working with a group, and how you can make a group effort succeed.
You know, a lot of it goes back to the motives of the people who start and instigate the project.
I've seen this over and over.
If somebody has a less than perfect motive when they start the project, if they're trying to make themselves a hero, if they're trying to make themselves some money on the side, you know, it usually flavored the project right to the end and created problems, if you know what I mean.
He's authored a book called No Such Thing as Doomsday.
I guess if you prepare.
In the beginning of the book, a quote from Patrick Henry on threats.
Quote, we are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth.
For my part, whatever anguish of the spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.
End quote.
If you are uninterested in the truth, what might occur and what you could do should it occur, then you're going to want to tune out now to any one of the other radio stations that no doubt are talking about how somebody picked up Newt Gingrich's phone call.
otherwise we will continue here in a moment Philip, welcome back.
Well, good to be back, Art.
We're going to go to the phones and let some of the audience ask you questions.
Again, the book, No Such Thing as Doomsday, at least for some people.
No, that's very interesting, and I'd love to see some documentation on it.
It doesn't surprise me in the least bit.
But no, I'm sorry.
I haven't seen anything like this elsewhere in the country, but it stands to reason, especially I would imagine if you investigate it around the major population areas, you probably see similar situations.
I wonder if that is a privately done affair or if it is mandated by the government.
For example, large radio stations that serve as emergency broadcast centers were mandated by the government, subsidized by the government, to harden their broadcast locations.
And I wonder if the government might have done the same thing with some food supply centers.
Do you know, Caller?
unidentified
No, I do not know if the government has mandated that.
However, this is a family-owned company that's been around for about 60 years, and they do tend to be much more conservative than the average corporate leadership.
That's another issue that I deal with in great length is called electromagnetic pulse, EMP protection.
Right.
And it's another thing people should be aware of.
All of your government facilities are hardened against electromagnetic pulse, and I go to some detail on explaining to people how they can protect their equipment.
And the off-budget to take care of our paying of the interest, etc., the monies have been taken from our Social Security, from our Medicare, etc., etc.
We're in a very hideous situation.
And I would like the guest, I don't know how much the guest knows about what kind of skullduggery has gone on in the past.
And I apologize, Art, if I, you know, go into something a little bit.
And you cut me short if I'm getting on some tender nerves, if you understand what I'm talking about.
All right, you're going to have to finish this up now.
What is your point?
unidentified
The point is that that man now is Sugar Daddy Robert Rubin, Secretary of Treasury, and he has made billions playing the highly leveraged foreign currency derivatives markets.
And these gentlemen are ruining our currency and our country.
And this man may be right on.
We may have to prepare for something.
So lastly, how do you prevent yourself from nerve gas?
We have to look at at a certain level, the United States is being subjected to economic extortion by the old Soviet Union.
The global group is pumping money into the Soviet Union with the idea that we've got to plasiate the bear, otherwise we're going to see a rebirth in the Cold War, the dreaded Cold War.
But, you know, there's some big ironies going on here.
Here is the Soviet Union.
They're supposed to be bankrupt.
But they're going ahead with their weapons programs.
They're still building nuclear submarines.
They're upgrading their missile fleet.
And they have the only operational space station in the world.
Now, how can this be for a country that's bankrupt?
The other point is, is eight out of nine, eight out of ten of their space shots are military-oriented, and they do more space shots in the U.S. It's all a good question.
You know, I would be very concerned with the collapse in the U.S. economy because there have been defectors, high-ranking defectors from the Soviet bloc who have said that part of the plan, the long-term plan, was in the event of an economic catastrophe in the U.S., that would be a point to move on their war plans.
And things of value pivot on things that are in demand.
If there's a shortage of food, food is very valuable.
Obviously, we've got North American trading out there.
Gold has always held its value.
And it's something to be careful about because it could become illegal.
We've seen that happen in the past.
The government has just gone out, or the people who control government have absounded that gold just before they were going to play with the currency because they didn't want the small guys making gains on their little games with the currency.
But getting back to the logic of international finance, the Soviets have us almost at nuclear blackmail, at financial blackmail just over the massive loans that they've got that if they said we ain't going to pay, they could destroy the Western economy.
Or I believe it was Clancy, I think, who wrote about the possibility of a consortium of debtor nations who would simply suddenly declare they will no longer pay us.
And the crime of it is that money is the people's money that was loaned by your friendly bankers at rates that American citizens turns in rates that we couldn't get.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Philip Hogue.
Hi.
unidentified
Hi.
I understand, and this has been scientifically proven in court, that some people made machines that make more energy than they use, and such a machine in such a shelter as yours would be great for heating dirty water into steam, which can be turned into clean water again, etc.
Really helpful.
So are you willing to contact any people with such machines so that you and they can combine your skills and form an independent community as a warm-up for when the real emergency comes?
But it can be done on a lesser fashion, on a single family or a group of families can do something very cost-effectively.
And I give all the information for the basics.
What I did with this book is I took a lot of high-level engineering information in many cases and I brought it all down to layman's terms because that's the way I operate it.
Sometimes it would take me weeks of trying to figure out what these guys are saying.
Many times people in this field will try and intimidate you with high-level engineering talk as a control factor or as an ego factor.
But if you really get down to it, it's all understandable.
And that's what I tried to do in the book, to bring this down so you can make your own intelligent decisions and devise your own options.
You know, but then again, understand that if you live 12 miles away from the facility and you're downwind, the biggest thing you're going to have to deal with probably is radioactive fallout.
And it's not that hard to protect yourself against radioactive fallout particles.
The big thing that's difficult is if you're living close to those targets and you've got to protect yourself against the direct effects of the weapon, and I talk about that in the book.
You know, whether it's neutron radiation, whether it's overpressure or heat, it's very difficult to protect yourself against that stuff.
And you don't have much time to implement the protective measures.
Well, what I'm talking about, the reapportionment, what they talk about is a very major reapportionment where most of the United States will be thousands of feet under the ocean.
So I don't know how a shelter would help in a situation like that.
Well, you know, if it's a rural place and it's isolated and you've got water, I think that it's a viable potential.
In the event of a conventional war, and the Soviets and the Russians have always looked at nuclear war as something that they used in combination with conventional warfare, there's always a potential that you could see troops moving up through Mexico.
The Soviets do have some military installations in Mexico, and they have some heavily, you know, they obviously had a pawn sitting there in Nicaragua.
They heavily armed Nicaragua with more munitions and equipment that they ever needed for security forces.
They had larger and greater plans.
And you got your buddy Castro over there, who for years was putting over 50% of the nation's concrete resources into underground shelters.
I just heard your little short mention by your guest earlier of the possibility that aliens would have some good free energy devices, and I wondered if he had any.
Well, yeah, and I wondered if he had any serious thoughts on the possibility of what that might involve as far as, you know, what his thoughts are on that.
Well, I think it was a facetious comment, sir, more directed toward the observation that there doesn't seem to be anything real and workable that we can lay our hands on.
Unfortunately, the common man out there, there isn't a big calling for preparedness.
Your major preparedness suppliers, most of them are carrying the book right now, whether it's the survival center, Safe Trek Outfitters or...
Well, about pole shift, the possibility of such, and what kind of climate controls you may have prepared in your own personal shelter for such, you know, if you are in a certain climate, if there was such an event.
Well, it might be different.
It's kind of hard.
Pole shift is a theory.
Of course, it's scientifically verified that it's happened many, many times throughout the history of the Earth.
And we're potentially, give or take, 100,000 years, may be at the point for another one.
It's kind of hard to tell where you're going to end up when that stuff starts moving or what the real effects are of that sort of activity.
All you can do is bolt your equipment down really well.
The key is that buried structures are more or less immune to the effects of earthquakes because they move with the media.
Now, when you've got a structure that stands up above the ground, the earth moves and the structure tries to stand still.
And typically what happens is the house shears off at the weakest point, which is the foundation.
And that's why you see all these houses sitting a quarter, two-thirds.
They're completely off the foundation.
Now, when it's a buried structure, it moves with the media, just like a submarine under the water in a typhoon as compared to a ship sitting on the surface.
The Caller there mentioned something about the ETs.
You know, I don't know.
That's a hard one to relate to in terms of the preparedness aspect.
But I kind of share your views, Art, that when we look at the history of one civilization of a higher technological advancement coming upon one of a lesser technological advancement, it has always resulted in abuse and exploitation.
Well, I wonder if Mr. Hoag has had any thoughts on how long people would have to be hold up and how many days rations they might need for different scenarios.
I realize he hasn't got a crystal ball, but say like if it was a limited terrorist attack, how many days before society started to function again.
But you would have twice as many people that would die during the first year, according to government studies, from starvation and radiation poisoning because of the breakdown of the infrastructure.
So getting back to your question, everybody should have a one-year food supply.
Now your question about how long would you have to stay in a shelter, the second most important piece of equipment you can buy, as far as I'm concerned, is a survey meter, a radiation survey meter.
They're a little pricey, but they really tell you if your shielding is working and if it's safe outside.
Otherwise, you may not know.
I mean, you're talking about something that's invisible, tasteless, and odorless.
And the other problem is in protracted nuclear war, you can have overlapping fallout patterns.
In other words, the radioactive fallout can carry itself with the prevailing winds from targets upwind and dust you.
And in a protracted war, not all the weapons are going to fall in one day.
So that's where it's really important.
And I've got an entire section here on radiological monitoring.
You know, it's not that difficult to do, and I explain it in layman's terms.
And so those are a few points.
Getting back to this government study, what they came up with is in the event of a nuclear war after the first year, the population of the United States, in terms of the quantity of survivable people, would be back to the population as it was in 1941.
What concerns me, Philip, is A, the Russians, not the Soviets anymore, but the Russians, still have almost all of their long-range, very accurate nuclear weapons.
Certainly, but after the fact is, to a certain extent, even worse.
And the other thing that I would like to mention is that I know you speak of a lot of books on your program, books that are sometimes hard to find.
But as far as I can tell, you can find any book, no matter how rare, no matter how hard to find, at Amazon.com.
Which I'm sure is a service you've heard of.
No.
The largest bookstore in the world at www.amazon.com, they don't hold all the books at once, but they have connections to suppliers of books that are out of print, have been way out of print, currently in print, a million books at a time, and any book, even ones that are out of print or haven't been printed yet, you can find them there and order them online.
So if you don't know where to get a hold of a year's supply of food, which would be packaged in tins, nitrogen and all like that, you might ask a Mormon if you know any.
In fact, there's a very good Mormon civil defense group out of Salt Lake run by a lady named Sharon Packard.
And they've been building shelters one every two or three months in the Idaho, Utah area, in Wyoming area, a pretty strong Mormon civil defense group, although it seems like the Mormon church is trying to downplay a lot of the preparedness aspects.
unidentified
It's not just a good idea to have it in case of a war.
I mean, suppose you lose your job.
You've got a year's supply of food to fall back on.
Yes, and for those who may have gotten on the logjam trying to get into your website, tomorrow I've got another website that I'm just opening up at No Doom.
That's N-O-D-O-O-M dot SimpleNet.
One word, simple net.com.
That's on an OC3 service out of San Francisco, and it's really easy to get in and out of.
The news, Israel looks like it may be making a deal with PLO.
We shall see.
That news goes on forever.
The OJ trial also goes on forever, although it actually may be wrapping up.
How many photographs of those shoes now?
The Democrats continue to pummel Newt Gingrich most lately with the contents of an illegally gathered conversation from a cellular telephone.
That one is interesting, sort of.
The supermarket tabloid that had the photographs of the little girl who was murdered has agreed now not to publish any more of them.
The police have charged the cowboys accuser.
Remember that 23-year-old former topless dancer who falsely accused cowboy star Michael Irvin and Eric Williams of sexually assaulting her at gunpoint.
Now she has been charged.
The problem with the commuter plane now does not look like the right engine at all.
They're looking at that.
Now it looks like a stall.
In other words, they tried to make a turn, and when they made it, they weren't going fast enough for icing conditions and went down like a rock.
And I thought you might be interested to know that there is, I'm not speaking on his behalf, mind you, I just happened to know of him by reading some literature, that he builds houses out of recycled materials, tires, saloon mechans and whatnot.
I think the idea would lend itself pretty easily to this type of adaptation since he's sort of disaster-minded, but not the sort of extreme disasters that Mr. Hoag was speaking about.
More economic disasters or energy failure, this type of thing.
I need a good sponsor for alien invasion shelters.
unidentified
Well, hey, well, the idea involved here, you know, I've been doing quite a bit of reading on it.
I'm going to be moving to Colorado myself, probably to build one in a couple years.
Really?
Yeah, the idea is that the house heats and cools itself, collects its own rainwater, grows its own food, requires no grid electricity, municipal plumbing, or anything like this.
And I really liked it.
I tried to get on the air with the...
It would be similar to a Chia house.
But it's an idea that it's really a lay idea because it doesn't require any special skills to build.
He calls it an Earthship.
His name is Michael Reynolds at Solar Survival Architecture in Taos, New Mexico.
And this type of housing is becoming pretty popular out west.
It's just accessible to people who don't want to spend $140,000, $150,000 on a crappy little house.
Well, I mean, radio conditions being what they are, sometimes you can see that.
unidentified
I love you, and thanks for so much spiritual wisdom.
And maybe that's exaggerated, but I wish you'd be more positive about, you know, we'd all love to have a shelter, but if you think positively, don't let that negative stuff happen.
You know, prepare, but pray and keep the life away.
Look, I'm all for thinking positively, but I'm also very aware of what's going on in the world.
And what Mr. Hoag said was pretty much right on.
With regard to Russia, China, Korea, the world situation, what may occur the next few years, what I call the quickening, however you want to put it together, he was pretty much right on.
Now, there are attitudes, like the guy said, who called me a little while ago about my attitude.
There are attitudes.
And if your attitude is, who cares?
Then who cares?
You know, just live your life.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Yes, sir.
This is a reference to the guest he had on last night?
Another thing about the airplanes, how people were saying, oh, well, I'm not going to get on an airplane if it was built in 86.
That plane's 10 years old or 15 or 20 years old.
Well, I could understand I wouldn't want to get in a car that, I mean, people, you know, they compare it to their cars, you know.
Well, Ford doesn't build their cars to last 20 years.
You know, Boeing builds planes to last.
And if it's a decent maintenance plan, they do.
I mean, if you fix your car as much as they fix their plane, I'm not saying, you know, that every plane gets faked quite as much as it should or somebody says, oh, I'll catch this next time.
That's human error.
I'm talking about regular maintenance plans that you follow.
I mean, people, I mean, if you look at the airbag thing, companies, Zero Motors, and then they, airbags, they figured that out in the mid to late 60s.
They didn't put it in because they knew the physics just didn't work.
I mean, you have a car going 60.
People don't realize you hit a wall or a tree, that's instantaneous stopping.
And you want an airbag to deploy and to keep you safe, that airbag has to come out at 60 or more to keep you in the car.
I mean, a seatbelt is better because it doesn't come at you.
You know, it's like you hitting the wall and the wall hitting you back to keep you in the car.
That doesn't work.
I mean, people were actually putting their kids in the front seat and expecting them, you know, I mean, you don't put kids in the front seats in the first place.
Well, that's exactly what my guest was saying would not be the case.
Frankly, I don't know.
There are scientists who say there will be nuclear winter, the Earth will be poisoned for tens of thousands of years, and then others say, no, nuclear war is survivable.
In other words, they picked it up, and what did they think would be the consequence?
unidentified
What they did, it just followed along from 1997 to 1999, from doubt to belief to debate, United Nations.
They held a news conference, realistic news conference, just like they did about the Mars rock.
And in the end, they found out it was a machine, and they theorized.
And then they had the real people on that were in that real conference.
They interviewed them at the end.
And they said, Mr. Shuftik in particular said that he thought we have to be prepared that if we do pick up a signal and it's from a machine, it could be a machine built by another machine, something about intelligent machines, that just because we're biological, we should be prepared for something else, too.
What did they say the social implications would be?
unidentified
Social implications were everything from the Islamic world saying, and also militias in this country saying it was to do with New World Order and just scam or something, to the United Nations demanding opening the signals to the whole world.
Well, I was I began ringing when the gentleman called much earlier in the program about he was speaking about Lenin in Russia.
Yes.
Well, there is a statue of Lenin in Seattle.
And I am very interested if anybody can substantiate for sure the rumors that I've heard that Gorbachev is ensconced in San Francisco at our naval base.
No, well, I did hear it from someone who lives in San Diego, and I was just wondering if somebody could substantiate that, because what that does effectively from north to south is cover us with communism on the entire West Coast.
Why do you think that they are showing programs like this?
unidentified
I know exactly why.
It's a subliminal program to get us thinking in that direction so that when they drop the bomb on us, when they crack it open, it's not going to be that big of a surprise.
It's hardly the thing that struck me was I'm listening to this guy and I'm thinking, you know, just like you were probably, that aside from the fact that he doesn't come over very well, you know, he can't speak very well, besides that, the thing is that he's saying key things that are telling me, you know, there's got to be something to this.
Thank you, T. East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
unidentified
If you read some of the well-documented books of, say, Felix Greene and Noam Chomsky, you learn some things such as Republican Senator Arthur Vanderburg advised Republican Harry Truman in the late 40s that he had to scare the hell out of the American people, as he put it, against the Soviet Union to justify Truman's plans for a massive network of military bases and military interventions around the world.
To justify this, he said he had to enlist the aid of the corporate media in scaring the hell out of the American people to shift the blame to the Soviet Union and the foreign threat.
And I think that's the really politically correct propaganda we've been subjected to.
And I find it really especially hypocritical and infuriating that some of these right-wingers like your guest Philip Hoag try to disguise themselves as a so-called for-the-people populace swimming against the politically correct tide when they're doing just the opposite.
They are actually surfing on paroding the ocean of politically correct Cold War anti-Soviet foreign threat scaremongering propaganda that the military-industrial complex interlocked political.