Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Dec. 29, 1996 - Art Bell

01:31:02

Dreamland with Art Bell - John Hogue - Nostradamus

Participants

Main voices

15:46

john hogue

56:37

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nostradamus, the complete prophecies, uh the first examination of all 1,477 prophecies and prophetic letters of Nostradamus.
		And now, due to be released in May and June of 97, I already have my copy right here, the Millennium Book of Prophecy.
		And it examines not just Nostradamus, though it does that in detail, but Edgar Casey and so many others, a sort of compilation of all of those who have seen.
		Here is John Hope.
		John, welcome to the program.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's great to be on, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A good time of year to have you, John, as we're all beginning to think about next year.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's a busy time for Prophet Scholars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, usually many shows happened this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What got you interested in researching people who saw?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I started off in my adult life as an opera singer.
		And in those moments of ecstatic singing, with the orchestra raging and all of that, I would have moments of almost a spiritual experience while singing.
		And it became, after a time, more interesting to me to study what was the nature of that inside myself.
		And so I left opera and began a search that took me about three times around the world and continually takes me traveling around the world to examine religious movements, prophetic and paranormal education, in an attempt to seek the truth about myself and the mystery of the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting by itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think it was, John, about singing that would cause you to, in effect, go into an altered state, I guess?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can only speak for myself, and simply when singing, singing has a way of taking you naturally into your heart.
		And mystics often talk about how the mind is the farthest layer of ourselves away from our truth, the heart being the doorway to the being.
		And I found that with music, especially classical music, it always gave me orgasmic experiences of life.
		And I realized that I started asking the question, well, why can't I have an orgasmic experience of life every moment?
		And so I kind of lowered the gauntlet on that idea and have been seeking answers to that ever since.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, singing was just sort of a little peek at something you thought could be completely captured?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and I think we all have different ways that happens to us.
		Some people have the experience while running.
		Some people have it while making love.
		Some people have it in many other ways.
		We have these little accidental moments where we kind of expand beyond what we know and what we've been conditioned to be and have a glimpse of something much bigger than ourselves.
		And some of us pursue that as a lifetime quest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nostradamus, is there some way to assign a batting average, if you can do that, to Nostradamus with regard to his prophecies to date?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, in a way, he's a very unique character in the realm of prophecy because unlike any other tradition or author of prophecies, he made great efforts to obscure himself.
		And it wasn't just for the difficulties that he had as a man living in the High Renaissance counter-Reformation period with a thought of religious intolerance.
		It was also set up to create a device, if you will, that keeps us arguing and discussing and wondering and scratching our heads about his prophecies.
		So to give an idea of how accurate he has been is difficult because to give you one example, in his own time, he became famous for predicting the death of his king, King Henry II of France.
		It was such a well-known prophecy.
		He was sort of like Gene Dixon predicting Kennedy years before his assassination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		And he was even called to the court to explain himself.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		He left with his head on his shoulders, so obviously he explained himself well.
		And although we don't have a record of what he actually said to the king, there are enough prophecies in his writings that show that he made about 20 predictions concerning an alternative future for Henry II, where he would unite France and northern Italy and become the second Charlemagne of Europe.
		Now, he didn't do any of that, but he did die in the Johnston accident.
		Which makes me think that one of the aspects of Mustadas' obscurity that has not been thought of often by astonishment is that Mustadamus is writing quantum futures.
		That 800 or 900 of his prophecies that seem impossibly open to interpretation of security could have been quite clear to us today if Henry had not died in the Jotsing accident.
		For instance, if he hadn't died, the House of Valois might have lived 100 years.
		It would not have been a French Revolution or Napoleon.
		And Napoleon not existing would not have created the situation that created Adolf Hitler and the German unification.
		And so on and so on.
		All the things that we hold as our history would have been completely eradicated by one choice of a major leader 400 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far through Nostradamus' predictions are we if you look at the complete timeline?
unidentified		How far through have we gone?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have at least 1,800 more years of history.
		The world is supposed to be destroyed by the expanding sun in the year 3797.
		And he implies that the human races will be living off this world long before and after that.
		So he explains they may be living on constellations of cancer and Aquarius.
		He seems to talk about two great exoduses.
		That one goes to Aquarius, which is almost in the opposite side of the zodiac, of the ring of constellations around the Earth, to the group that goes to Cancer.
		And it seems like the ones that go to Aquarius don't do very well, but the ones that colonize SARS in the constellation of Cancer live on for time immemorial, forever, being allowed.
unidentified		Thank you.
		To go elsewhere before its native planet in the normal cycle of things is restored.
		Yes, it's an important thing for an intelligent bank to keep challenging itself.
		Something people should bear in mind the next time we're talking about the NASA project.
		Indeed.
		Indeed, I mean, I grew up, my parents were really great about allowing me to stay home from school.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Memorable time of my life was this period of four in the morning, wholly tired, but looking at the first images of the Viking war in the bar.
unidentified		It was a remarkable experience.
unidentified		Yes, and we may have a similar one soon if our probe gets there intact.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, if it doesn't shut down suddenly, just before it gets there, it'll be very intriguing to see if Richard Holdland's theories will be proven by objective data.
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you, a couple of them certainly have done very well of recent days.
unidentified		One is finding ice on the moon, and the other is Europa, which has now been said to have actual oceans on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My mind, the things we're beginning to discover.
		Anyway, back to Nostradamus.
		From today's timeline and looking ahead, how does it look, John?
		I mean, what's coming?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, we are going to go through a difficult period, the next 30 years.
unidentified		To put it distinctly, mankind, or a few womankind, childhood is coming to the earth.
unidentified		We've never had to evolve up to this point.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Now that we've become a global civilization, certain traditions, no matter how hallowed they are to us today, are fossilized in, would not be good to use in what's coming, in the new era.
unidentified		And the prophecies turn over basically a new existence of cunning.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Now, the difficulty is that to get more down to earth with our problems, there's a lot of prophecies, especially in Nastadhamas, about global famines caused by too many mouths to feed on our planet.
		Without having Nastodamas tell us this four centuries ago, we just have to listen to Lester E. Brown talk about it in his article about who will feed China.
		And by 2030, China will require all the exports of grain that we currently have in the world in 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of it.
unidentified		All of it.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		In a few years, he says that the greatest challenge that humanity will face is to feed itself each year.
		So when we look at that, and then we look at this feeling that now the Cold War is over, and in Millennium Books of Prophecy, I used to talk about how now that the Cold War is over, everybody wants to have an American dream of consumerism and its resultant pollution.
		If that were to happen, by 2025, you would have to build a nuclear power plant every week to match the terawatts that would be needed for that.
		So one thing's for certain, it's not going to happen.
		We're not going, everybody's not going to have the American, the juicy, dripping American slice of consumer pie.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Well, something will then have to get in the way of all of that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll have to, we will be challenged to, you know, I often think there are so many prophecies about that there are three world wars to be waged.
		Many great prophets have talked about that.
		But I have a feeling that the third world war does not have to be a war against each other.
unidentified		That we have a choice.
		That it can be a war against our stupidity.
		It could be a war against our excess.
		It could be a war against our past.
		In a situation where they are basically collapsed, I think that the innate desire of the human heart at this time will the majority of us to protect the unknown, brace it, celebrate it, and change the way we've been behaving.
		I'm a subscriber, John, to this population business.
		In the United States, we have North America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But we have built in the city.
unidentified		We have concentrated in the cities so as to be able to provide services.
unidentified		In the city, it's very clear, John, that we are in our shooting robberies where people used to take money and back out of the door and now just shoot the guy for the fund of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Socially, we appear to be in a sort of state of degeneration, of de-evolution almost.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is a...
		Many Native Americans and Aboriginal peoples of other cultures have told me that they foresee an energy gain in the world's Psychic energy for about 35% for the next 30 years.
		And that it peaks probably around 2012, around the time of the mind calendar reaching the end of its cycle.
		And what it simply means is that people will have more energy to play with than they've had before.
		And the choice will be for each individual to use that energy for inner transformation or to hold on to the past, to either be 35% more in anger and rage or 35% more repressed, or to use that energy to be 35% more informed on themselves and how they relate to their world.
		So something that Alvin and Heidi Tolkert was talking about in one of their recent books may very well happen, that we as generation gaps begin in the 1960s, but by the 2020s, we may have a humanity gap between human beings that wish to hold on to death.
		Opposed to those human beings who want to create a new humanity and will create it and separate from the other humanity that wishes to hold on unto death, to what they know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One world where there's almost a mad max scenario going on and the other a fenced-off, protective, high-tech type world.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It will be a blend, because the age that we're entering in predictive astrology is the Aquarian age, and Aquarius is ruled by paradox.
		So it is.
		Some people will choose to learn to dance with their opposites and make them complimentary, the opposite ideas, and other people will choose to be polarized.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and really the choices for each of us which kind of life we want to make are there I just got a bulletin here on a new Ebola outbreak in Goumont.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A new outbreak of Ebola has killed nine people there now.
unidentified		State radio announced today in a rare government acknowledgement, they rarely acknowledge it, of this deadly disease.
		The outbreak is the third this year in that West African country.
		And the entire population there is worried by people talking only Ebola fever and catastrophic results and so forth and so on.
		So here we are again, people packed closely together.
		And once again, this new sort of disease breaking out.
		You've studied Meltedamas, Edgar Casey, and others.
		Do you find similarities?
		Oh, yes.
		Oh, yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I have a whole chapter in the Millennium Book prophecy called The Lemming Kingdom, which reviews the seven final plagues of the book of Revelation and shows parallels in other traditions.
		And I would say that in a certain degree, those seven final plagues are with us today.
		I mean, I came to this, my background with this is kind of unorthodox.
		I used to be a pest controller in Eastern Oregon.
		And there was a community city that was established out there.
unidentified		And the area had all these mobile items and all this quite a few feet, unfortunately.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And they did what most rodents do and had a huge explosion of numbers.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And because that area was prone to the animal version of ubonic plague, my job was to call the numbers so that that would happen.
unidentified		And by actually getting these issues, I suddenly saw parallel with human race behaved with its own resources.
		But we've had situations since the 1920s where suddenly we live longer, we have much of a constant food, and we have to say it.
		And, you know, Mother Nature is funny and how it works with that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I mean, when it's a harsh time, the immune systems are very hardy because to survive into adulthood requires hardy food.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when times are easy?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, when they're easy, then you have a very weak immune system.
		And naturally, it comes to a certain point of crowding and stress that the population is exposed to diseases and immune system breakdowns.
		And then nature calls a large number of the population.
		And I'm seeing a situation in the next 30 years.
		It's exactly the same for the human race.
		If it doesn't choose to do one thing, to either be a human being or to be a mouse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if we fight these things, I can imagine in earlier days, for example, the weather, John.
unidentified		Unbelievable in the Northwest.
unidentified		I'm underneath it right now.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is it you are, John?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I'm in Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're in Seattle.
unidentified		I'm hearing stories about snow piled up as it never has been.
unidentified		I've never seen it this way.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		People live there at lifetime.
		Yesterday we were talking about the 50 years ago.
		Now people are saying we've never reported it.
		I mean, we've had like two feet of snow.
		The freeways are rivers because we also had about an inch and a half to two inches that has nowhere to go, so it's floating on top of the snow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I guess a new one's coming in.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		So it's just ridiculous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, John, hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're at the top of the hour.
unidentified		And we will talk about the seven final deadly plays.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		...in and puts out the fire.
unidentified		Or it may even be that you are considering a man like Seattle.
		God bless you.
		Thank you.
		You need to die.
		But we will stand the fire by the nature of the changes.
		In other words, we continue to play with Mother Nature, whole Mother Nature, in effect.
		And I wonder if she will continue to escalate the job.
		The initial pattern of IT is that humanity is a race of seatwalkers.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We seem to be born as.
		You look at any child who's born as like an enlightened being, a little Buddha coming to the world.
		You meet that child again in 10, 15 years, and he's a crushed mediocrity.
		And it's like in some way, the civilization has function.
		I won't say it was its work, but I will say it has functioned by keeping people repressed from their own innate genius and their ability to perceive the whole picture.
		Certainly it was a beautiful thing in the 1920s when great breakthroughs happened with polio and other diseases, but nobody really thought it out.
		They sat back and said, hey, if we suddenly increase life expectancy, but we do nothing to balance that out with a population control regimen, look what's going to happen to us.
unidentified		Then there's one other thing, and I'd like to run this by you, John.
		I'm reading a book presently by Michael Cricney, his latest.
		And in it, he has a very, very interesting scenario, and it is as follows.
		The internet, which is growing now, as you know, by leaps and bounds, is going to turn not just our society, but all societies into a great mediocrity.
		He suggests that you take a few birds and you put them on an island, and they will very quickly evolve of necessity.
		You take many, many birds and put them in a large landmass, and they will evolve very, very slowly.
		You put three people on a committee, you get something done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		30 barely get anything done.
unidentified		300 and nothing happens.
unidentified		And he's suggesting that the internet will cause the same top 10 books to be read, the same top ideas to be thought about worldwide, and that the interconnection of the world will ultimately result in its demise.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, Delmas has really concerned several prophecies about the great loss in learning that he saw around the turn of our century and onward.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of Mrs. Agos prophecies talked about how when the day comes when you have implants that you can plug in internet through your mind, many of the disciplines that believe and think you think about when we can take a when it's all done for us and become quite stupid in a certain way.
unidentified		Sure, innovation slows or stops.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But you know, another thing can happen.
		This very moment is always the moment that the future is born in.
		We are something to build with people.
unidentified		And we are...
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		One thing that I keep seeing prophecies in the next century is that the religions as we know them will fade away and be replaced by what seems to be a science of self-observation, which will be the wing that's missing in the bird of science, if you will.
		We have the wing of objective science, the measuring of matter and phenomenon, and then we'll have a new wing that will fill the void left by religions and dogmas, and that is the science of meditation or self-observation.
		And I thought, well, how, you know, it's one thing to hear or read about prophets saying the end result, but I'm always intrigued with the bridge that gets us to there, either bridges to utopia or doomsday.
unidentified		Well, you said before the top of the hour, we are now, you believe, in the seven final plagues.
unidentified		What are the seven final plagues?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, the seven final plagues are paralleling what the book of Revelation says, but with other prophets.
		I would interpret it to mean the first disease, if you will, is that the breakout of immune systems was not done at the time of the world.
		That is followed by the second dis-ease, which is the pollution of the world's drinking waters and the ocean by oil flakes, pollution.
		The third dis-ease would be the hidden poisons that we have put into our atmosphere and into our water table through nuclear power plants, 1,500 nuclear detonations in rehearsal for the Third World War, which actually has been the Third World War for the Fourth World, the Indigenous peoples, because we've set most of the bombs off on their land.
unidentified		Well, you know, John, I've been wondering about these deformed frogs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was a big headline in our Las Vegas paper here recently about the farm carp in Lake Mead, which is only the drinking water for Las Vegas and much of Southern California.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		There are, to just read one, Prophet Emma Kuntz from the, she said this back in the late 1930s.
		She says there will be plagues shaped like pencils that will take men into space and by so doing, punch holes in the atmosphere, letting in lethal cosmic rays that will kill many millions.
		And there are many other references even back to the Middle Ages of swords fashioned in a different manner that not surprised.
		It's important studying prophecy to kind of take your own conditioning and put it on the sky.
		And not take anything for granted, but try to see and feel what it would be like to be a 17th century man seeing a rocket flying into the sky.
		It's a dark, metallic object with a sharp point.
		If I were a 16th century man, I might call that a sword.
		A flaming sword.
unidentified		A spear of the gods.
		Whatever.
		Yeah.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And it cuts up the sky.
unidentified		The flame, the smoke, when you think of all the pollution that each launch covers.
		And the launching hole bells.
		So that is disease 4.
		The flag from the sky.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Now the diseases become more subtle, more existential.
		Disease 5 I call depression and hopelessness.
		And that's basically when, as one prophet said, when man is becoming mature and aware that he has been cheated by the false promises of priests and politicians, society has been greeding him all these false promises.
unidentified		Desire to live on the world.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And the first thing wounded will be your sexuality.
unidentified		To me, that is a sexuality.
unidentified		Behave means humanity is simply losing its will to live.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And that was Osho in 1985 who said that.
unidentified		Now, it is entering such a new world where none of our old traditions and values are perfect.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And we have not reached the point of excruciating dilemma and crisis where we have to create a new morality.
		So we're kind of in the twilight stone between the two, which leads us to Dick.
		And that is the opiate of false prophet psychologies.
		It's all the predictions that every religious tradition seems to have, pointing the finger at everybody else as having false prophets and saviors.
		Since they're all doing it to each other, my feeling is matrix.
		They may very well be a mistreatment.
unidentified		When something is new, it has an organism that is master brought into the earth.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It later, with centuries, becomes an organization, a political unit, a dogma.
		And there seems to be a cycle in history and in prophecy where the established dogmas of today reach their crystalization and have to be broken down by new radical mystics and people that are often called cultweirs who are leaders in teaching.
		So in a way, the Antichrist that everyone keeps talking about could just as much be the established religious thinking as it is some new character who wants to undermine things.
unidentified		Well, it seems to me, John, the breakdown in confidence in our present political system is already very well underway.
		As a matter of fact, I've felt it on a personal basis.
		The right, the left, the middle, I look at what Washington does these days.
		And I've almost given up, John, I tell you, the two major political parties seem to do nothing that in the end is all that different nor pleasing in any way.
		So that process seems well underway, and I think I'm joined by many in that.
		Oh, yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's almost like if we picture ourselves on the veranda, we'll both wave since 1896.
unidentified		We're thinking about the entire direction that Russia is going.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The star is still established, the school and everything is still there, but it has very interesting parallels to our current political system.
		It's functioning, it's creeping along.
		People are talking about reform, but it really doesn't mean me.
		We have the gangriches of the world who talk a lot about revolution, but really not putting their money where their mouth is.
		And then if you then look a few years ahead, we might get the first warning of revolution in the 2005, just like in 1905.
		And then maybe in the second decade of the 21st century, as some prophets believe there may actually be the new civil war in America that will lead to a new constitution by 2025.
		Yeah, and the Mormon prophets are the sort of remarkable predictions about the second civil war.
		And it's not the same as the last one.
		It is a civil war that's basically similar to prophecies about World War III in general.
		It's a global civil war.
		It's the breakdown of society as we know it in preparation for a new society.
		It's a war between families, between streets, cities, states, and whatnot.
		It's basically what I like to call a World War II for all.
unidentified		Mad Mess.
unidentified		It's mad mass, and my hunch is what will happen is in some cases.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It will be like the other alternatives, which is people seeing the threat of their stupidity as dangerous as people used to see Adel Hitler in the last 50 years.
		And, you know, America galvanized itself, certainly had its warnings of Hitler, and then when the war took place, suddenly an incredible creativity and unity came in the nation.
		It would be just wonderful if people instead of fighting each other could fight their stupidity in the same way they fought World War II.
unidentified		Well, it is clear to me, John, and you mentioned this earlier, I've traveled the world, and third world nations worldwide are striving now to be what we are, and they're beginning to have the problems we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pollution that makes some of what we have look like great air, believe me.
unidentified		I know I live in India for most the ADP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In Bangkok, for example, half the police who direct traffic have lung disease, serious fatal lung disease.
unidentified		I mean, it's horrible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely horrible.
unidentified		And these third world nations are all moving and walking toward what we have.
unidentified		That's not going to be possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the world will collapse unto itself long before they achieve it.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And this is why what we're doing right now tonight is the internet standard for the world is so important.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We make the alchemy to make this with our awareness and creativity a system that warns people in the third world, that warns and also alternatives to the status quo ideas and gets people more in a position to make their own responsible choices.
unidentified		Oh, you're quite right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, I've I've read to you that business article has been related to I
unidentified		guess I would have to say this.
		The popularity of my program, the kind of program I do here, accounts for being able to suggest there is this new thinking that has to be done.
		However, the major mass media, I'm afraid, really has not caught up with that yet.
		And until that happens, there's going to be many more sleepwalkers.
		Indeed, there's a two-edged sword with it.
		The more sleepwalkers, the more we step towards the new century.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Every day we enter deeper into the 21st century, the weather's going to get worse.
		The food's going to get less.
		The resources are going to get less.
		And basically, even this...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, John, hold it right there.
		We'll be right back.
		Prophecy, that of Nostradamus, Edgar Casey, and many more.
		John, just sort of a general question.
		Why is it good to know?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's good to know rather than, in my opinion, my experience, it's better to know than to believe.
		If you believe, if you strip belief of all of its sugar coatings and cloaks and metaphors, what you find is belief, bluntly, is standing upon ignorance.
		It's been the basis of many religions and many political concepts, and probably one of the basis for a lot of our misery in history.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but let me be the devil's advocate for a moment and say, ignorance, okay, fine.
		You want to say I'm ignorant?
		Because I don't want to know, fine.
unidentified		But for me, ignorance is bliss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm living my day today life.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I have a family.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have things to do.
		I listen to these coming disasters and changes.
		And it just causes me mental distress.
unidentified		I'd rather just be blissfully ignorant.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And that's, to put it bluntly but compassionately, exactly how our society is created is in the mediocrity.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Because as long as you're a good machine in your family unit that's very controllable by the powers that be, then you will continue to march off to the world wars and march off to this and that and ignore the dangers that are coming.
unidentified		And I'm not really condemning people for it.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I feel great compassion for all of them.
		I'm in the same boat anyone else is in.
		Through meditation over the last 20 years, I've come to understand how conditioned and programmed I am and what a mediocrity I am.
		And it has been, there comes a time where you just can't stay a machine anymore.
		You start wanting to break loose.
		And, you know, it's a choice.
		I would never want to force anyone to join in this journey with me unless they really wanted to do it because it can be painful.
		You have to drop a lot of illusions.
		Then again, you talk about the bliss of ignorance.
		There's another bliss that starts to arise when you do start dropping a lot of these things.
		And it's a bliss of knowing something of true integrity about your being.
		That no matter what your priests or your politicians or pedagogues say, you from your own majority of one truth.
		And that grows.
		And it has a subtle bliss to it that is much, much bigger and much more worth being, in my opinion, personally.
unidentified		How far would I have to have my head in the sand for 1997?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My way of asking, what can you tell us about this year that lies just ahead?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		In the Jewish calendar, it is the millennium.
		It is in the solar calendar a few years off from the millennium.
		It is a time where I think we will see even more dramatic weather changes.
		I would not at all be surprised if the mainstream news even gets more daring about accepting the fact that we have a global warming condition coming.
		At the same time, it is a time which will probably see a push and a pull of people who wish to stay righteously involved with what they believe from the past is true, and at the same time reacting to that or responding to that, more and more people are going to want to shake that off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people in your area, there in Seattle, say, global warming?
		Ha ha ha ha ha.
		Who are you kidding?
unidentified		Well, it's cold.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, in fact, this is a symptom of global warming.
		Yes.
		When you have hotter equatorial regions, the tropical moisture is pumped much farther north because of the strength of a warmer planet.
		And what we have happening in Seattle, and which Happened also in the eastern seaboard in the fall.
		Is tropical moisture that's pumped up and pushed so fast that it actually goes far enough north that it hits cold air and creates huge snow events.
		And the huge snow events are actually the first symptom of global warming.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just wanted to make you say that here.
unidentified		Yeah, because I know what a lot of people up there are going to be saying.
unidentified		And when you have a change in one area, it produces a change in another area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, weather is an interesting sort of thing.
unidentified		And for example, if you have rain in one area or a lot of it, then you have dryness or even drought in another area.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		This should begin around 1998 and get quite intense around the turn of the century.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		We may see large areas, we may see the Mississippi River area and areas in Africa and India suffer similar to what we saw in the mid-1980s.
unidentified		Wow.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And hopefully, we will take these tragedies and use them in the right way, soldiering our awareness rather than burying ourselves deeper in the sand.
unidentified		What about earth changes aside from the weather, which I fully agree, we're going to have a terrible year, and it's well underway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't have to be a predictor.
		It's already occurring.
		What about earth changes, earthquakes, that sort of thing?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		1998 is going to be a busy year.
		And the spring of 2000 is also going to be a busy year in earth changes.
		Although I do not subscribe to the maps of huge areas sunk, I don't think that's going to happen.
		I think what you will see, and I've had a pretty good track record with earthquake predictions, you will see sinkages of land as extreme as the 1964 Alaska quake in the next five years in regions.
		But you won't see the West falling into the sea.
		Even Edgar Casey can get that wrong.
		In fact, Edgar Casey was a courageous enough prophet to actually record and ask his friends and all, gee, I seem to get that wrong.
unidentified		I wonder if I met what my people or what happened.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		He was humble enough to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've studied not just Nostradamus, but Casey and 89 others at least.
unidentified		How much real similarity, when you break it all down and study it, and that's what you've done, how much similarity is there in what they all say?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		There is a lot of similarity in basic themes.
		You have...
		Shortly after the turn of the century, As though we ran out of time.
unidentified		Or we stopped being so predictable.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Because after 23 years of studying this, I've come to the conclusion that prophecy works because we're predictable.
		We repeat the past and call it the future because we keep conditioning every new generation.
		We feed them with our mistakes and our biases and limitations and mediocrities so that they maybe are dressed differently and have different technologies, but essentially they do the same stupid things.
		And it is that syndrome, that rut of repeat that makes fantasy work.
		We're coming up to a period where we can't do that anymore.
		So it may be the racial imperative of the human race to nurture genius and spontaneity to survive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, John, it seems when you look at our social behavior as though race relations should be, if we're on the right track, should be improving, that the differences that mark us with skin color or religion should be disappearing, and yet they appear instead to be sharpening.
		Race relations, yes, we have passed laws in this country, civilized as we are.
		But we have not yet changed hearts.
		In fact, if anything, it's going the wrong way.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess because in a way we are not really yet taking this seriously.
		Because you see, when you look at all the laws made and you look at the kind of testimonials for change from Clinton down, what you're seeing is people who say, yeah, we want to build bridges 21st century, but we want to take all our garbage over there with us.
		And the problem is, we're going to have to strip bare of all that stuff when we cross that bridge.
		And when we get on the other side, we have to start all over again.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		All right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And that's a beautiful thing.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It can be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I have many, many people who would like to talk to you, so let us begin to go to the phones and see what's out there.
		How's that?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hoag.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, would you turn your radio off and go right ahead?
unidentified		Okay, great.
		This is the first time I've been able to get through.
		I'm calling from Arizona.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I would like to ask, he was talking about the seven plagues from Revelation.
		And I was wondering if you're going to consider that true.
		Then that means that I would like to ask if he considers the entire content of the book of Revelations to be true.
		And if he does, then what does that really say?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a question of the cart or the horse.
		Although the book of Revelation has these seven final plagues, there's a wealth of other religions that also have their scriptures concerning these seven final plagues.
		So depending where your bias is, you could equally say, oh, well, the book of Revelation matches the Hindu prophecies of the Puranas, or it matches the Dhammapada, and so on.
		So it's, in my case, I look at them all, and I try, through meditation, to look at my own biases and the biases of prophets, their hopes, their fears, and projections that they kind of cloud the magic mirror, if you will, with stuff.
		Yes, we have to brush off those politically correct ideas And religiously correct ideas and have a fresh look at the prophecies.
		And when that is done, I see the correlations beyond the agenda, the essential vision.
		For instance, there are so many traditions that are looking for a new Messiah to come, not just the second coming of Christ, but in my book, The Millennium Book of Prophecy, I have a whole page full of just an example of dozens of different Messiahs that are coming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, do you believe the Antichrist lives now?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The Antichrist, as I see it, is that which chooses not to throw in the death.
		And I see the Messiah as the intellective consciousness, the will to become human beings.
		I don't see it as personifications.
		I think that's where a lot of people may miss what's coming because Jesus, who even quoted verbatim some of Buddha's ideas, like do unto others do unto you, comes, it was totally not in the mainstream's agenda.
		And now what we have is people collectively in the mainstream expecting a Jesus Christ from 2,000 years ago to basically come again.
		And as all too predictable, the vast majority of people will miss the action because of their prejudices.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Easter the Rockies.
		You're on there with John Hoag.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm Steve in Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Steve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		I just wanted to tell him that I'm sitting here in Ohio on the snow belt.
unidentified		It's 60 degrees.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		60 degrees in Ohio?
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		It was 60 degrees yesterday, and it was about 58 today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, where John Hoag is in Seattle, it looks like Ohio.
unidentified		Yeah, no, what it should be, yeah.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It was 25 last night.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Now it's 45.
unidentified		No, all in Seattle?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, just within 12, 15 hours, it did a dramatic change.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And again, very greenhouse in effect and quality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's all I wanted to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you very much for saying it.
unidentified		Bye, Steve.
unidentified		We could look, we could take calls from now until doomsday in weird weather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think when the hurricane season comes again and spring dawns, it's going to be an awful one.
		Once again, John.
		Not hard to predict, is it?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Not hard to predict, but amazing that people centuries ago were predicting it.
		That's what makes it intriguing.
		I mean, it's not so hard for us to see it in the near future, but when a man at the turn of the century named Anton Johansson predicted greenhouse hurricanes going as far north as England and at a time when that just wasn't happening, it's pretty remarkable.
		And another important point, 1996 actually had more damaging storms than the previous year, even though there were not as many storms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, if we keep fooling Mother Nature and putting out these fires of diseases and protecting people from ravaging storms that otherwise would kill with great new technology and warnings, won't Mother Nature ultimately escalate the battle?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I think, yes.
		It's really a question back to the mice and men syndrome.
		It's like if we just allow, trust in our ignorance and trust in faith that something's going to save us and just go on blissfully unconscious of what we're doing, then we'll just be, we're no better than the mice who overpopulate their range and then Mother Nature takes care of them.
		Now, the beauty about being human is that we have much more capability to see this coming and change it.
		But it means we have to drop something.
		We're going to have to pay for it.
		And we can't have our cake and eat it, too.
		We may have to have a moratorium on all births around the world for 20 years if we want to deal with it without a great disaster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, I really think the forest analogy is the best one.
		You keep putting out little fires.
		You keep putting them out, putting them out, and it's not a matter of when there's going to be a big, tragic fire, whether there's going to be one.
		It's a matter of when.
		There's going to be one.
		We see it year after year after year after year in the forested areas of the West and the Northwest.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And to use your metaphor, there have been Forest Service people who have seen this problem and are now beginning to do control burns where they do burn a lot of the undergrowth in large-scale burnings.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I used to be a bush fireman myself, and you see that happening now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is true, but there's still the minority.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, it is true, and the way I look at it is that we're on an uphill battle.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's like the mountain peak is still way above us, but I celebrate every step that I can take towards it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hoag on Dreamland.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Hello, where are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
		Going once, going twice, gone.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, this is Aries in Illinois.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		A moment ago, you said, not you, Art, but Mr. Hoag, said that he believed that the Antichrist wasn't a literal person, but Napoleon predicted Nostradamus predicted that there would be three Antichrists, And the third one was modest, right?
		And the first two, I believe, were...
		Yeah, Mabus, wouldn't that be Saddam Hussein?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is one of the high candidates, certainly.
		It is also possible that unlike the first two, the man could be a very minor character.
		Because he says in that prophecy that Mabus soon dies, as if he's the first casualty of his own war.
		And that almost sounds similar to Gavrilo Princip, the Serbian assassin who shot France Ferdinand and triggered World War I. It could be equally some terrorist organization or a group of dedicated terrorists who set off a nuclear terrorist event that triggers World War III.
unidentified		When they die, they're the first people to die.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		It's always important with prophecy to never assume what happened in the past will happen again in the future.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But at the same time, because of predictability, one has to equally be aware that it could be repeated again.
unidentified		While we don't have the Cold War to worry about, we sure do have terrorism to worry about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And perhaps they will sow the seeds that will assist Mother Nature, whether it be with biological agents or nuclear weapons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you expect?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, I expect that where we had in the 70s and 80s with politics of oil, we're going to have a new political world by the 2020s where China will fill the void left by the Soviet Union.
		We'll have two superpowers again.
		And China will use its alliances with the Middle Eastern OPEC nations to counterbalance America's use of wheat as a political weapon when there's no more food.
		So if there is a global situation by the 2010s or 20s, you will see that this will be the weapons that are used to wage in a world balance of power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I surely believe that, John.
		I took a trip to China, to Hong Kong, and then up into the economic areas, and then finally up into Canton.
		And, John, what I saw in China will haunt me for the rest of my life.
		I saw economic activity that would remind one of the old industrial United States, only on a scale that boggles your mind.
		The people in this country, in the world, have no idea what's coming with China.
		No idea at all.
		And the only way to know is to go and see it for yourself.
		John, hold on.
		We'll be back with you in a moment.
		John Hoag, who Edgar Casey, and combines it with as many as 89 more.
		And we'll get back to John Hoag in a moment.
		In Snow Country, Seattle.
		John, I could read you many, many, many thankful and good facts, but instead I will challenge you with one that I received that is not complimentary.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it simply says, what a charlatan.
unidentified		Does your guest read tea leaves too?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what we have here, John, is anger generated by fear.
		And one of those sleepwalkers out there just happened to tune in tonight and is scared to death by what he's hearing.
		And so he writes a facts like this.
		How do you respond to somebody like that?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		He should be scared to death.
		He should be scared to death because if he's wanting to hold on to his illusions to doomsday, anything that shakes that should happen.
		But, you know, it's tea leaves.
		It's such a cliche.
		I was hoping that the person would actually say something more intelligent.
		Are there any other nasty factors that are a little more elegant?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the only one.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, too bad.
		Oh, well.
		I mean, it's sticks and stones and cliché bones don't disturb me much.
		If it does, that's something for me to look at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		But I was wondering if maybe it's not the right moment, but I have finally on the World Wide Web, and I was wondering if I could say where people could reach me and send their taxes direct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may indeed.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		It is www.lauralee.com slash H-O-G-U-E dot H-T-M.
		And if people want to get my books, they can call the radio bookstore at 1-800-243-1438.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Your new book, The Millennium Book of Prophecy, it suggested was not due out in a massive way until spring.
		People can get it now?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, in fact, it is the special cyber, fully illustrated version.
		I created the first special edition, which looks like it came from the middle of the next century.
		It has a lot of cutting-edge computer graphics and unique layouts to kind of subliminally catch you as much as the words.
		And there's only a few thousand copies left of that, and there's going to be a print-only version that's coming out in May.
		And the book you mentioned earlier of Nasr Damas, The Complete Prophecies, is not going to be out until April.
		I just finished it two days ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two days ago, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is time going to end, John?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Time ends every moment.
		Sometimes I think time is a projection that we try to clothe the eternal present in.
		Nostradamus talked about that in his letters and confessions about his occult work.
		He talked about getting his, stilling his mind and his body and his emotions so that he could reach a state where he could embrace the eternity of the present, he called it.
		Almost like what we might call the continuum of now.
		And so time's a really funny thing.
		Our concepts of time are almost like many of the other projections we put on things.
		They change according to our perceptions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've thought of time mostly as our invention.
		Something that we really had to create so that we would know when to do this or to do that or to be able to observe the passage of time and events.
		But it seems to me to be really our invention.
		At any rate, what about, and I see you write in here, about the four horsemen of the apocalypse.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's time for an update.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The four hell riders of doomsday?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I thought it would be fair to have the allegories of the horsemen of the apocalypse be two men and two women to give fairness to all allegories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And so I changed them.
		And if people go out and buy the book, they can still see the special artwork.
		We even recreated the Durr wood print and made them in color and the first Hellrider, the Trailblazer if you will, is what I call overpopulation.
		And she is riding a starving horse and her weapon is an empty begging bowl and she has an enormous pregnancy and she is the population birthing urge run amok.
		You know if we dealt just with the overpopulation issues, so many of the problems we have in the world could be eradicated.
		It's just too many of us and too little to go around.
		She is followed by the second Hell writer who is a ravaged earth goddess called Earth Trauma.
		And this is Mother Earth's reaction to us overburdening her world with ecological disasters and disruption.
		She is followed by a knight with a hamster's head and a huge syringe as a lance.
		And he is the Lemming syndrome.
		And he is the repressed collective desire for unlovingness and self-destruction that breathes itself in our physical world into diseases.
		And we've talked at length about that chapter.
		The final Hell Rider is a dark angel descending on the Middle East from space with a borrowed Russian nuclear weapon at his lance.
		And he has a...
		And he is called the Third World's War.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, all of those four horses are either at a full gallop right now, or the riders are saddling up.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and then the most important issue is the horse they all ride.
		The motive force that makes these four dimensions of prophetic unconsciousness, prophetic Antichrist, if you will, come into our world.
		And that breed of horse that they ride is what I call a nightmare unconscious.
		And that is the lack of humanity in us.
		You know, we sometimes seem to be, as I said before, machines, animals that talk, as the Suleiman Dede, the Sufi mystic used to call us.
		And the thing to understand is this unconsciousness.
		To understand why we're unconscious, why this runs our lives.
		I mean, to go back to your idea of time, you know, we, of course, need language and we need labels to function in this world, and we always will.
		But the way we're trained is we start identifying with these labels to the point that we're ready to go to war for little pieces of cloth on sticks for, you know, behavior pretty much in bunch of someone else's religion.
		And it's just amazing how over time we have allowed ourselves to be completely identified with our labels rather than use them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's Larry in Abilene, Kansas.
		Larry writes, it may disturb and or surprise you to know just how many people out there now would support, even look forward to, a civil war in this country.
		I fit into this category.
		But let me make it clear, I'm not a warmonger or an insurrectionist by nature.
		Everything's out of control.
		Our government, our citizenry, I'm ready.
		Let's go to war.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Probably a lot of people said that in the Weimar Republic, too, after World War I in Germany.
		There were a lot of people that were really upset with the chaos that came to Germany, and they were thinking, it's time for a revolution.
		Some of them wore brown shirts and helped Adolf Hitler restore order.
		And that is a thing to be aware of, is the Aquarian age is actually, in the next 20 centuries, we're going to have to watch out for the Hitlers and the Stalins because those are aspects of the future.
		You know, Adolf Hitler was actually quite a good prophet, even though he was quite dark.
		And he predicted the Cold War a few days before he committed suicide to a T, he predicted it.
		And he also talked about the rise of fascism would come again in 100 years by the 2040s.
		And one could almost see the danger of that if the whole world behaves like the chaotic Weimar Republic breaking down and in chaos, people in their unconsciousness will demand order.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, there will be chaos if I don't go back to the phone.
		First time caller align, you're on the air with John Hog.
unidentified		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, yes, speak up for you, not too loud here.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm here in Addiot, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		Hey, I got a question for you.
		Hey, what would you call a Nostradamus, a modern Nostradamus, at this time?
		Would you call him the clairvoyant, remote viewer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, maybe we ought to ask, is there a modern-day equivalent of Nostradamus on Earth and alive now?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, not with my knowledge.
		And also, there are a lot of candidates that I'm looking at, but I usually, with every candidate, say, all right, everybody can claim to be a prophet.
		Give me six months of predictions, and if you're 75% accurate or over, then I will investigate you further.
		So it takes a little time.
		I would say the last person that would match that would be Edgar Casey.
		And I would say a little more recently, the mystic Osha was quite accurate in his predictions.
		I mean, he predicted age five, six years before it happened, many of the things that are happening.
		A lot of the mystics of the 20th century, like Gurdjieff and Adidasantosha, used to be known as Freejan, actually are quite good prophets.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, you'll be receiving a letter, 14 pages, because it's coming in at Mail Express.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Take a guess out of that, and you might be calling me back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call, and have a good evening.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with John Hope.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Hi, my name's Shirley, and I'm from Koroff, Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Shirley, you're a neighbor.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I have a question.
		I've been looking for this woman that's an author.
		She wrote a book saying, I don't know if she was hypnotized, but Naster Thomas came to her and asked her to write down a thousand different interpretations that we were interpreting them wrong.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think that must be Dolores Cannon you're talking about.
unidentified		I think that's you've got right.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I have a problem with Dolores.
		She's very sincere first off, I want to say.
		Okay.
		But I was on a show, Ancient Prophecies, on NBC, where they had our interviews back to back.
		And I was rather surprised and shocked that neither her nor her spirit guide has obviously never set foot in Ostams' secret study because it was described completely wrong to the one that actually exists today, which you can go see in Salon-en-Provence in France.
unidentified		Okay.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		So the problem with channeling is there are very few channelers that really measure up to their own press clippings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't agree more.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is my one great area of skepticism, and it's not because channeling may not exist, just because there's so much room for fraud.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Edgar Casey's one of the few that I don't have that feeling with.
		He was sincerely a great medium.
		Because he has the proof.
		You know, he documented all of his readings, and you can check them against the then.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hoag.
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Valley, Nebraska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		I have a couple of questions.
		One is, what do you think we should do to prepare for this millennium?
		I mean, we should listen to our own intuitions, our dreams, our gut feelings about the future?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, I would, those and I would also cultivate an ability to understand, to reflect upon one's habits.
		You know, why do I think this way?
		Why is it that sometimes people push my buttons and I get emotional?
		And it's almost, I think the most important message could be that each individual listening tonight try to find a way to observe their own thoughts and feelings and emotions without judgment, just breathing and relaxing and just seeing them like a movie and seeing where they originate from.
		When you see one image, you push, you pull the layer aside and see if there's something underneath that.
		If you hear a voice of authority in your mind, see if it has the voice of your father or your mother or your priest or politician.
		If it doesn't have your voice, then it's probably not your truth.
		It's borrowed from something else, from someone else.
unidentified		What do you think about dreams?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, dreams are the way, my experience of dreams is it's the way the subconscious is trying to tell me what I'm repressing.
unidentified		Tell what we're repressing?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have the belief from meditating for 20 years that human beings are basically trained from day one to repress a lot of their truth and their feelings to survive in a world that wants mediocrities.
		And so when you start coming out of that, you suddenly realize that there's a whole lot of things that your subconscious is trying to tell you that because you don't find ways to express it or cathart it in a cathartic meditation or something, to release it, to see it, it becomes many of the diseases and problems that happen to people.
		I mean, many of the people who suddenly freak out and kill a bunch of people with guns are people who hold it, their rage all inside of them.
		Many of the people who beat their wives and children are people that don't beat a pillow 20 minutes a day.
		I mean, if everybody beat a pillow 20 minutes a day, you would lose a lot of the rage that you would throw on your fellow man and woman.
unidentified		Because I, for the past five years, have gotten a lot into dreams, and I've been having a few prophetic visions of what happens in my future, and a lot of times I just don't listen to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that brings up a good point.
		John, I was talking to a guest about dreams not long ago, and we rarely, except on shows like this, compare dreams.
		And it was suggested that we have a dream registry, literally, where people can record their dreams and we can begin to decide if mankind is beginning to have mass prophetic dreams of the future.
		Because otherwise, I know of no such collection point of that sort of information.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, they call it in some cases the Akashic record.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I remember when I had a near-death experience that I had.
unidentified		what may have been an experience of a glimpse of that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Later in my studies in India, Mistakes taught me that by a level of collective Exactly.
		That we not only have personal unconscious dreams, but we can, with awareness, tap into the collective dreams of the human race.
		And in the same way, we can awaken to collective consciousness and collective superconsciousness, the apocalypse of the Buddhas, if you will.
		You know, apocalypse means enlightenment in ancient Greek.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all of this begins to sound a little new agey, but what I'm saying is, what if something awful happens and it turns out that maybe millions of people were having similar dreams, and somehow, because we never compared, never collected, we missed it.
		The message was there.
		We were all being warned.
		But we missed it, John.
		All right, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour and We'll be right back.
		My guest is John Hoag.
		He's a Nostradamus scholar, and there will be more.
		From the high deserts, an area near Dreamland, this is Dreamland.
unidentified		From the Kingdom of Nine, you're here in Dreamland with Art Bell.
		To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		First-time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Facing a brand new year shortly.
		Talking about the future.
		John Hoag is my guest, a Nostradominist caller.
		Back to him in a moment.
		His leftoid first-time caller line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		My name's John.
unidentified		I'm in Lahaina, Valley, Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
		All right.
		John, meet John.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Hey, John.
		What about, I have, like, two questions for you.
		The first one, what about, like, this volcano that's coming up off the Big Island?
		Have you heard about it?
		Yes, that's good.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Still got a lot of miles of water to climb up out of before its surfaces, but that doesn't mean there might not be major seismic activity in the southern part of Hawaii, the big island, because of things that are going on there.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		There's also a string of volcanoes on the edge of the continental shelf along the San Juan de Fuca Strait, and that could cause some major events.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I might add that in the Caribbean, Montserrat is getting ready to let go big time.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and Rainier did a little earthquake rumbling in the last two years.
		I remember I was on Northwest Afternoon saying in July, August of 95, there might be some event.
		And fortunately, there was only a small quake on the top of it.
		So there, again, predictions can be changed by events or directions we take.
		I mean, Mr. Dhamma has made it very clear in his writings that the future is not written in stone.
		It's full of quantum possibilities born out of the present.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller, any idea what you would like to name your new Hawaiian island?
unidentified		It's already named.
		I forget the name of it.
		It starts with an I, something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, darn.
unidentified		So Hawaiian name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A missed opportunity, no doubt.
		All right.
		Thank you very much.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with John Hogue.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, it's Terry from Calgary.
unidentified		Just curious, earlier, your guests mentioning some of the modern-day prophets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're Calgary, Alberta?
unidentified		Yes.
		Yeah, and I was just curious as to notice the avoidance of people that you've had in your shows, like Gordon Michael Scallion and Robert Goldsborough.
		Folks hang up and listen to if there's any comments from those individuals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Gordon Michael Scallion, Native American prophecy, that sort of thing.
		Do you look at that, John, along with everything else?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I look at everything that's going on and study it and see its accuracy.
		I don't actually put a lot of credibility to a lot of Gordon Michael Scallion's predictions because actually lately he's had a lot of them not be correct.
		And I just think the map of the altered America is...
		Yeah, it's actually a very old map.
		It's Vegger Casey and decades afterwards, the Earthquake Generation book written by Jeffrey Goodman had very similar maps.
		And to make it sound like it's something new, it's just not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not wild about it because where I am is more or less underwater.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		And I think I would stake my reputation as a scholar that it will not happen that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi, John.
		Hi, two questions for you.
		Question number one, I want to ask you a question about whether it has to do with Nostodamus and or other prophets if they've talked about our first contact with extraterrestrial life.
		Let me relate that to something that will happen in 1997, and also relates to Richard Hoagland, who Arbel has had on many times on the show.
		As you know, the Mars Global Surveyor will orbit Mars September 97, and starting about January 98, it'll begin its mantic mission of Mars.
		What I want to ask you for question number one is, in relation to Richard Hoagland's theories, which I feel does have some merit and may be true of the so-called face on Mars, have there been any prophets who've said in one form or another that something like a spacecraft like coming up Mars Global Surveyor will or will not verify, make it testable the theory that there is maybe in fact an artificial face on Mars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		West Hartford, Connecticut.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, excellent.
		Yes, we've got a probe going.
		You know about the artifacts on Mars, John?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The theory of them, yes.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I didn't have the books and pictures, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I see nothing in Nastodamas that could even be stretched to talk about the Mars probe.
		Although I'm sure like people try to stretch O.J. Simpson and the bloody glove in Nastrodamas, I'm sure somebody will give it a try.
		But after 20 years of studying old French and studying Nastodas' ways of using it, I have not seen anything of that nature.
		However, there are definitely going to be soon some discovery of extraterrestrial life, which could be as big a shift in the Earth's axis of consciousness as the other predictions which talk about a shift of the physical axis of the Earth, which causes great cataclysms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you feel that revelation, that of extraterrestrial life, is imminent?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		In fact, it's amazing how much the lid can still be stuck on it.
		You know, it's already known.
		It's almost as if the powers that be are just trying to Find a way that they can utilize it to keep people mediocre.
		The problem is that once you let this genie out of the bottle, you're going to have what Arthur C. Clark mentioned: that overnight, global government, United Nations, all of that will work because people will drop their national difficulties because of the fear they will have of some enemy out there.
unidentified		Indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the arrow with John Hoag.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		This is Chris in Ashland, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I'm very interested in black African spirituality and culture.
		And I find that it has a lot of beauty and festivity and love to it.
		And I'd love to think that somehow those kind of traditions may have an important role in the future of all of us.
		Particularly in the racial issues.
		And I'm wondering if there's anything in the record of prophecies that might indicate anything like that.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		All the native peoples of the world talk about the return of native values.
		Some of them get a bit extreme and say that all technology will disappear and the bubble flow will return and what have you, and in a way sound as extreme as other righteous religious traditions who think everything will conform to their worldview.
		However, if you take that bias off and look at it, one sees already the white people of America starting to take on a lot of the traditions of Native peoples.
		You see a renaissance of that in the West here.
		And this is something that I think Ray Bradbury said really poetically in his Martian Chronicles that at the end of the book, the human beings who colonized Mars ended up becoming the Martians that they had destroyed.
		They started taking on the spirit of the Martian.
		In the same way, one of the great crimes of humanity, what the white men have done to native peoples in the world, may never be reconciled, but strangely enough, the people who raped those societies may eventually take on their wisdom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a recent contemporary movie in the theaters right now, Tim Burton, in a movie called Mars Attacks.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I saw it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you saw it?
unidentified		Yeah, just a few days ago, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The first thing destroyed is my little town, John, Perump, Nevada.
		Of all places.
		I don't suppose Nostradamus or any other prophet, old or modern, has Perump being destroyed.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, you can't even find it in Anagram.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
		I'm glad to hear that.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		Cape Coral, Florida, Arch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cape Coral, Florida, all right?
unidentified		Yes.
		Go ahead.
		I was wondering what he thinks about the problem with the government, not really overpopulation, but even our own government pays the farmers not to grow food, and in other countries they use food as a weapon to neutralize their enemies.
		And, you know, I don't see the problem being overpopulation as being a tyrannical government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a good point, but what will you do when there's 20 billion people in the year 2020?
		And then in another decade or two, there's 15 billion.
		It will soon, maybe it is manageable to this point, but soon it's going to be a problem that's going to transcend what governments can even do to repress and control if they don't start changing radically the way they behave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, John, in China, where they have a government that lays down the law and it's really the law, they allow only so many births.
		In the Western world, we have Catholicism and we have freedom and we have all kinds of things, societal things, that say you can reproduce as much as you want to.
		How will that change?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		The problem is that our understanding of freedom is unconscious.
		We think freedom and we don't see the equal need for responsibility.
		With freedom, there has to be exactly the same measure of responsibility.
		When people think freedom now, they think, well, I'm free, I can do whatever I want.
		But that means what you're saying is I don't even want to consider the consequences of my free action.
		So in a way where we've been let down, it's not even at the government level.
		They're also, in a way, victims of the same problem.
		We've been let down in the way we've been trained from youth, from childhood on, to see the whole picture.
		If anything, it's our educators and our historians who have are as equally responsible for the breakdown.
		People are not being trained to think, to observe the consequences of action.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air with John Hoag.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I was wanting to know if there was any mention to the One World Government or New World Order by Noster Davis.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		He talks about the blue hat, the blue hat of the UN.
		And it can definitely be applied to his prophecies.
		And in a way, whether people like it or not, I'm sure a lot of people didn't like cars at the turn of the last century, but it became a reality, for better or worse, that people had to deal with in the 20th century.
		In the same way, we're at the threshold of dozens of different major changes like that.
		And one of them is the political systems will have to be revitalized and revolutionized completely.
		We are living in the future, in a future without nations.
		It is just going to happen, and we need to, rather than resist the reality of it, we need to make sure that that world government works for our individual rights rather than just become a global police state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		Oh, I'm calling from Winnipeg, Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Winnipeg.
		All right.
		Very good.
		Interesting.
		So it will happen.
		This world government, this world, whatever it's going to be, is indeed on the way, right?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Within the next 30 years, nations, as we know them, will disappear.
		We will be one world.
		And it could happen much sooner depending on surprise factors like extraterrestrial discoveries or things like that, which bring the world together overnight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with John Hoag.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Yes.
		Master Thomas predicts that in 1999, in the seventh month, the great king of the Angomois.
		The Mongols, from the skies, and Mars shall reign at will.
		Is this an invasion?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		No, the correct translation is, in 1999, seven months, the great king of terror will descend from the skies and resurrect the great Mongol, or another way of saying it is the great Genghis Khan.
		Before and after, Mars rules happily.
		Mars here is used as an astrological metaphor.
		He often, Master Dumps, uses that.
		And before and after can mean several things.
		It's a bit cryptic.
		Mars has two aspects in predictive astrology.
		One is war.
		The other is initiating new adventures.
		It is the Maggoth, the high priest of transformation.
		So it's almost like he's leaving us the either or.
		Which one do we want to choose?
		I mean, a lot of people think that the war of the Antichrist that Master Fellow talks about, including I believed it, began in 1973 and would end in 1999.
		It may very well be that July 1999 is the beginning of the war of the third Antichrist, and it doesn't end until 2026.
unidentified		John, after wormwood in the Bible, it talks of locusts with things in their tails coming and pestering man for 42 months.
unidentified		I was wondering if this went along with that prophecy.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, wormwood in Ukrainian means chernible.
		And it's actually, I commented on it as one of the seven final plagues.
		The chernible radiation was probably one fulfilled.
		That prophecy might have been fulfilled.
		Now, many prophets, especially Nastradamas and the Bible prophets, use animals perhaps to describe machines.
unidentified		How about that referred to spaceship?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, it can.
		However, it can refer to locusts.
		It can refer to locust plagues.
		It can refer to Huey helicopters.
		It can refer to Apache helicopters who really look like locusts.
		One has to keep all the potentials open so that when something does come that stirs you, then you might see it.
		You know, you might recognize what the prophecy means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		John, are you sure that the Chernobyl or Wormwood prophecy is yet totally fulfilled?
		I ask that because 60 Minutes and lots of other credible organizations have recently done stories on the deteriorating sarcophagus that was placed over Chernobyl.
		It's cracking.
		It's beginning to leak.
		And they're concerned about an explosion.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		I wish they would talk about another important point of the IAEA.
		Maybe we can tell everybody about this.
		That most, there are 10 to 11 Chernobyl-style reactors that have a life expectancy which runs out in 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Including, by the way, John, one that's being built as we speak in Cuba.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And this, there is a nuclear reactor in Bulgaria that is in a warehouse.
		It has no shielding whatsoever.
		Its parts are rusting.
		Its Russian instructors left town because they weren't being paid, and they left the plants to their students, and it's still running.
		Now, I'm more amazed that we haven't had another turnable of equal disaster happening, but I think that is one of the highest potentials in the next five years.
		Now, Stalin talked about a plague of false dust that will require Southern Europe's evacuation for nine months.
		Now, if that doesn't sound like either nuclear terrorism or a nuclear disaster in the Balkans or Italy or what have you, if you look at the wind patterns of the areas, it would, of course, go over those areas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where does Southern Europe evacuate to?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, he doesn't say much about that.
		He just says that everything's evacuated from Florence south, Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, the Peloponnesian Peninsula of Greece, and the southern Balkans.
		So, and the word false dust is really quite remarkable.
		It also could be a biological plague or something like that, too.
		One has to leave all the options open so that we can heed the warning and change it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you aware now that our government is going to investigate the possibility, as advertised by Joyce Riley for some time now, that biological agents were used in the Gulf War?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it is an update that I put in Millennium Book of Prophecy.
		Before the war, when I wrote the first edition, the Grand Teton Council of American Elders, two elders, had made a prediction saying that there would be this plague that no one expected that would come out of the Gulf War, and it would spread all over the world.
		And as you know, a few months ago, we've discovered that on a genetic level, whatever is brewing in the people's bodies is actually almost like an organism that can be contagious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's spreading.
		John, we could do hours and hours and hours, and we didn't have enough time.
		We're out of time.
		Quickly, the phone number to order your book, The Millennium Book of Prophecy, and as a matter of fact, your other book, Nostradamus, The Complete Prophecies.
		What number?
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		1-800-243-1438.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
		Out of time.
		That's it.
		Networks have to operate by the clock.
		I'm sorry.
		We could use hours and hours.
		Thank you, John.
		It has been a pleasure.
john hogue ▲ ● ▼		Same for me.
unidentified		It's been wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend, John Hogue.
		And that's it, folks.
		We're out of time.
		To get a copy of this program, call beginning now, 1-800-917-4278.
		That's 1-800-917-4278.
		From the high desert near Dreamland, I'm Art Bell.

▲