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Dec. 29, 1996 - Art Bell
01:30:52
Dreamland with Art Bell - John Hogue - Nostradamus
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Nostradamus, The Complete Prophecies, the first examination of all 1477 prophecies and prophetic letters of Nostradamus.
And now, due to be released in May and June of 97, I already have my copy right here, the Millennium Book of Prophecy.
And it examines not just Nostradamus, though it does that in detail, but Edgar Cayce and so many others, a sort of compilation of all of those who have seen.
Here is John Hobe.
John, welcome to the program.
Great to be on, Art.
A good time of year to have you, John, as we're all beginning to think about next year.
A busy time for Prophet Scholar.
Is it?
Yes, usually many shows happen this time.
What got you interested in researching people who saw?
Well, I started off my adult life as an opera singer and in those moments of the static singing, the orchestra raging and all of that, I would have moments of of almost a spiritual experience while singing.
It became, after a time, more interesting to me to study what was the nature of that inside myself.
And so I left opera and began a search that took me about three times around the world, and continually takes me traveling around the world to examine religious movements, prophetic and paranormal traditions.
In an attempt to seek the truth about myself and the mystery of the universe.
That's interesting by itself.
What do you think it was, John, about singing that would cause you to, in effect, go into an altered state, I guess?
Well, I can only speak for myself, and simply when singing, singing has a way of taking you naturally into your heart.
And mystics often talk about how the mind is the farthest layer of ourselves away from our truth, the heart being the doorway to the being.
And I found that with music, especially classical music, it always gave me orgasmic experiences of life.
And I realized that I started asking the question, well, why can't I have an orgasmic experience of life every moment?
And so I kind of lowered the gauntlet on that idea and I've been seeking answers to that ever since.
So in other words, singing was just sort of a little peek at something you thought could be completely captured?
Yes, and I think we all have different ways that happen to us.
Some people have the experience of running, some people Have it while making love.
Some people have it in many other ways.
We have these little accidental moments where we kind of expand beyond what we know and what we've been conditioned to be and have a glimpse of something much bigger than ourselves.
And some of us pursue that as a lifetime quest.
All right.
Nostradamus, is there some way To assign a batting average, if you can do that, to Nostradamus with regard to his prophecies to date?
Well, yes, in a way.
He's a very unique character in the realm of prophecy, because unlike any other tradition or author of prophecy, he made great efforts to obscure himself.
And it wasn't just for the difficult disease that he had as a man living in the high renaissance counter-reformation period, but as far as religious intolerance.
It was also a setup to create a device, if you will, that keeps us arguing and discussing and wondering and scratching our heads about his prophecies.
So to give An idea of how accurate he has been is difficult because, to give you one example, in his own time he became famous for predicting the death of his king, King Henry II of France, with such a well-known prophecy.
Sort of like Gene Dixon predicting Kennedy years before his assassination.
Sure.
And he was even called to the court to explain himself.
He left with his head on his shoulders, so obviously he explained himself well.
And although we don't have a record of what he actually said to the king, there are enough
prophecies in his writings that show that he made about 20 predictions concerning an
alternative future for Henry II, where he would unite France and northern Italy and
become the second Charlemagne of Europe.
Now, he didn't do any of that, but he did die in the Johnston Accident, which makes
me think that one of the aspects of Nostradamus' obscurity that has not been thought of often
by scholars is that Nostradamus' writing quantum futures, that 800 or 900 of his prophecies
that seemed impossibly open to interpretation of obscurity, could have been quite clear
to us today if Henry had not died in the Johnston Accident.
For instance, if he hadn't died, the House Valois might have lived a hundred years.
It would not have been a French Revolution or Napoleon.
And Napoleon not existing would not have created the situation that created Adolf Hitler and the German unification.
And so on and so on.
All the things that we hold as our history would have been completely eradicated By one choice of a major leader 400 years ago.
How far through Nostradamus's predictions are we, if you look at the complete timeline?
How far through have we gone?
Well, we have at least 1800 more years of history.
The world is supposed to be destroyed by the expanding sun in the year 3797.
It implies that the human races We'll be living off this world long before and after that.
So he explains they may be living on constellations of Cancer and Aquarius.
Seems to talk about two great exoduses, that one goes to Aquarius, which is almost on the opposite side of the zodiac, of the ring of constellations around the Earth.
to the group that goes to Cancer.
And it seems like the ones that go to Aquarius don't do very well,
but the ones that colonize stars in the constellation of Cancer
live on for time immemorial, forever, heath-wise.
...
It's an important thing for intelligent life to keep challenging itself.
Something people should bear in mind the next time we're talking about NASA's project.
Indeed.
Indeed.
I mean, I grew up, my parents were really great about allowing me to stay home from school.
The times of my life with this bit is four in the morning, totally tired, so looking at the first images of the Viking
waterfall, it's a remarkable experience.
Yes, and we may have a similar one soon if our probe gets there intact.
Yes, if it doesn't shut down suddenly just before it gets there.
It'll be very intriguing to see if Richard Hoagland's theories will be proven by objective data.
Well, I'll tell you, a couple of them certainly have done very well in recent days.
One is finding ice on the moon and the other is Europa, which has now been said to have actual oceans on it.
My my, the things we're beginning to discover.
Anyway, back to Nostradamus.
From today's timeline and looking ahead, how does it look, John?
I mean, what's coming?
Well, we are going to go through a difficult period in the next 30 years.
To put it distinctly, mankind, or to womankind, childhood is coming to an end.
We've never had to evolve after this point.
Now that we've become a global civilization, certain traditions, no matter how hallowed they are to us today,
are fossilized and would not be good to use in what's coming in the new era.
And the prophecy paralleled it to that.
A new existence is coming.
Now, the difficulty is to get more down to earth with our problems.
There's a lot of prophecies, especially in Nostradamus, about global famine caused by too many mouths to feed on our planet.
Without having Nostradamus tell us this four centuries ago, we just have to listen to Lester E. Brown talk about it in his article about who will feed China.
By 2030, China will require all the exports of grain that we currently have in the world in 1996.
All of it.
All of it.
In a few years, he says that the greatest challenge that humanity will face is to feed itself each year.
So, when we look at that, and then we look at this feeling that now the Cold War is over, and in millennium books across the sea, I used to talk about how now that the Cold War is over, everybody wants to have an American dream of consumerism and this result in pollution.
If that were to happen by 2025, You would have to build a nuclear power plant every week to match the terawatts that would be needed for that.
But one thing's for certain, it's not going to happen.
We're not going, everybody's not going to have the American, the juicy, dripping American slice of consumer pie.
Well, something will then have to get in the way of all of that.
Well, we'll have to We will be challenged to... You know, I often think there are so many prophecies about that there are three world wars, three waves.
Many great prophets have talked about that.
But I have a feeling that the third world war does not have to be a war against each other.
That we have a choice.
That it can be a war against our stupidity.
It can be a war against our excess.
It could be a war against our past.
Uh, in a situation where the entire civilization has refused to collapse or move on to a new power system, how do you think that the innate desire of the human heart to survive will change?
The majority of us do accept the unknown, embrace it, celebrate it, and change the way we've been behaving.
I'm a subscriber, uh, John, to this population business.
In the United States, we have a lot built in America.
We have a lot built in America.
But we have built in cities.
We have concentrated in cities so as to be able to provide, you know, services.
In cities, it's very clear, John, that, uh, we are... I don't know why I'm shooting...
Robberies where people used to take money back out of the door and now just shoot the guy for the fun of it.
Um, socially, uh, we appear to be in, in a sort of state of degeneration.
Of de-evolution, almost.
Well, it is a... The native peoples of the world have a pretty clear insight into this and their prophecies.
Many native Americans and aboriginal peoples of other cultures have told me that they foresee an energy gain in the world.
Plankton energy for about 35% for the next 30 years.
And that it peaks probably around 2012, around the time of the Mayan calendar reaching the end of its cycle.
And what it simply means is that people will have more energy to play with than they've had before.
And the choice will be for each individual to use that energy for inner transformation or to hold on to the past.
Either be 35% more in anger and rage or 35% more repressed.
Or to use that energy to be 35% more aware of ourselves and how they relate to their world.
So something that Alvin and Heidi Tolfer were talking about in one of their recent books
may very well happen that we as generation gaps begin in the 1960s but by the 2020s we
may have a humanity gap between human beings that wish to hold on to the Earth and the
position as opposed to those human beings who want to create a new humanity and will
create it and separate from the other humanity that wishes to hold on to death to what they know.
One world where there's almost a Mad Max scenario going on and the other a fenced off,
protective, high-tech type world.
It will be a blend, because the age that we're entering in predictive astrology is the Aquarian Age, and Aquarius is ruled by paradoxes.
So, it is a... Some people will choose to learn to dance with their opposites and make them complementary, the opposite ideas, and other people will choose to be polarized.
And really the choice is for each of us, which kind of life we want to make.
Are there... Well, I'm going to ask about specific prophecy.
I just got a bulletin here on a new Ebola outbreak in Gabon.
A new outbreak of Ebola has killed nine people there now, state radio announced today, and a rare government acknowledgement, they rarely acknowledge it, of this deadly disease.
The outbreak is the third this year in that West African country, and the entire population there You've studied Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and others.
Ebola fever and catastrophic result as it was and so on. So here we are again
people packed closely together and once again this new sort of disease breaking
out. You've studied Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce and others. Do you find similarities?
Oh yes. Oh yes? Yes.
I have a whole chapter in the Millennium Book of Prophecy called the Lennon Syndrome, which reviews the seven final plagues of the Book of Revelation and shows parallels in other traditions.
And I would say that in certain degrees, those seven final plagues are with us today.
I mean, I came to this, my background with this, Kind of unorthodox.
I used to be a pest controller in Eastern Oregon.
And there was a common city that was established out there.
And it was a big town.
It was a big town.
And it was a big town.
And the area had all these mobile homes.
And I was part of the community.
And we had stories.
And they did what lots of rodents do and had a huge explosion of numbers.
And because that area was prone to the animal version of bubonic plague, uh, my job was to call the numbers so that would happen.
And by activating my 2-7-2-3-2, I suddenly saw parallels with human race behave with its own resources.
But we've had situations since the 1920s where suddenly we live longer, we have much better health, and we simply have
a very, very good life.
Well, when they're easy, then you have a very weak immune system.
Well, Mother Nature is funny and how it works with that.
When it's a harsh time, the immune systems are very hardy because to survive in the adult food requires hardiness.
And when times are easy?
Well, when they're easy, then you have a very weak immune system.
And naturally, it comes to a certain point of crowding and stress
that the population is exposed to diseases and immune system breakdowns.
And then nature culls a large number of the population.
And I'm seeing a situation for the next 30 years that's exactly the same for the human race if it doesn't
choose to do one thing, to either be a human being or to be a mouse.
And yet we fight these things.
I can imagine in earlier days, for example, the weather, John.
Unbelievable in the Northwest.
I'm underneath it right now.
Well, there you are.
Where is it you are, John?
I'm in Seattle.
Oh, you're in Seattle.
I'm hearing stories about snow piled up as it never has been.
I've never seen it this way.
Yesterday we were talking about the 50 years ago, now people are saying we've never reported it.
I mean, we've had like two species of snow.
The freeways are rivers, because we also had about an inch and a half to two inches that had nowhere to go, so it's floating on top of the snow.
And I guess a new one's coming in, so it's just, it's ridiculous.
All right, John, hold on.
We're at the top of the hour, and we will talk about the seven final dead leaves.
In other words, we continue to play with Mother Nature.
Fool Mother Nature, in effect.
And, uh, I wonder if she will continue to escalate the battle.
John?
Yes?
You know, the initial, the essential problem as I see it, in history, in future histories,
is that humanity is kind of a race of sleepwalkers.
We are.
We seem to be born as, you look at any child who's born as like an enlightened being, a
little Buddha coming to the world.
You meet that child again in 10-15 years and he's a crushed mediocrity.
And it's like, in some way, the civilization has functioned, I won't say it's worked, but I will say it has functioned By keeping people repressed from their own innate genius and their ability to perceive the whole picture.
It certainly was a beautiful thing in the 1920s when great breakthroughs happened with polio and other diseases, but nothing really started out that way.
If we suddenly increase life expectancy, but we do nothing to balance that out with a population control regimen, look what's going to happen to us.
Then there's one other thing, and I'd like to run this by you, John.
I'm reading a book presently by Michael Crichton, his latest, and in it, um, he has a very, very interesting scenario, and it is as follows.
The internet, which is growing now, as you know, by leaps and bounds, is going to turn not just our society, but all
societies, into a great mediocrity.
He suggests that you take a few birds and you put them on an island, and they will very quickly evolve of necessity.
You take many, many birds and put them in a large land mass, and they will evolve very, very slowly.
You put three people on a committee, you get something done, 30 barely get anything done, 300 and nothing happens, and he's suggesting that the internet ...will cause the same top ten books to be read, the same top ideas to be thought about worldwide, and that the interconnection of the world will ultimately result in its demise.
Well, that's dumb.
This is really concerning.
He talks about the great loss in learning that he saw around the turn of our century and onward.
He talks about how when the day comes when you have any plans, you can plug in internet through your mind.
Many of the disciplines that... and thinking things out.
I think about memory and thinking things out.
When we can take a...
When it's all done for us, and become quite stupid in a certain way.
Sure, innovation slows or stops.
But you know another thing can happen.
This very moment is always the moment the future is born.
We are talking to millions of people.
We are...
This media can also inspire people and drive people to do this.
One thing that I keep seeing in prophecies in the next century
is that the religions as we know them will fade away and be replaced by what seems to be a science of self-observation,
will be the wing that's missing in the bird of science, if you will.
We have the wing of objective science, the measuring of matter and phenomenon.
And then we'll have a new wing that will fill the void left by religions and dogmas, and that is the science of meditation or self-observation.
And I thought, well how, you know, it's one thing to hear or read about prophets saying the end result, but I'm always intrigued with the bridge that gets us to there, either bridges to utopia or doomsday.
All right, you said before the top of the hour, we are now, you believe, in the seven final plagues.
What are the seven Well, the Seven Final Plagues are paralleling what the Book of Revelation says, but with other prophets.
I would interpret it to mean the first six years of Israel is the precursor of our immune system.
Well, it's not down to six hours anyway.
That is followed by the second disease, which is the pollution of the world's drinking waters and the ocean by oil slicks, pollution.
The third disease would be the hidden poisons that we have put into our atmosphere and into our water table through nuclear power plant, 1,500 nuclear detonations in rehearsal
for the Third World War, which actually has been the Third World War for the Fourth World,
the indigenous peoples, because we've sent most of the bombs off on their land.
Well, you know, John, I've been wondering about these deformed frogs.
There was a big headline in our Las Vegas paper here recently about deformed carp in
Lake Mead, which is only the drinking water for Las Vegas and much of Southern California.
So that's also dealing with the next disease, which is plague from the sky.
There are, to just read one prophet, Emma Quince from the...
There will be planes shaped like pencils that will take men into space, and by so doing, punch holes in the atmosphere, letting in lethal cosmic rays that will kill many millions.
And there are many other references, even back to the Middle Ages, of swords fashioned in a different manner that cut the sky.
Now, it's important in studying prophecy to kind of take your own conditioning and put it on the side, and not take anything for granted, and try to see and feel what it would be like to be a 17th century man seeing a rocket flying into the sky.
It's a dark metallic object with a sharp point.
If I were a 16th century man, I might call that a sword.
A flaming sword.
A spear of the gods.
Whatever.
And it cuts up the sky.
the flame, the smoke, when you think of all the pollution that each launch causes,
the, uh, the, uh, the launch of all the other planets.
So that is, that's deceit four, the plague from the sky.
Now the deceit has become more subtle, more existential.
Deceit five I call depression and hopelessness.
And that's basically, uh, when, as, uh, one, uh, prophet said,
when man is becoming mature and aware that he has been cheated by the false promises of priests and politicians.
Society has been feeding him all these false hopes.
And the first thing wounded will be your sexuality.
To me, that is a big sexual need, yeah.
And that was Osho in 1985 who said that.
humanity is simply losing its will to live.
And that was Osho in 1985 who said that.
Now, it is, um, so that's the thing.
We need to be free that we are entering such a new era where none of our old traditions and values matter.
And we have not reached the point of excruciating dilemma where, and crisis, where we have to create a new morality.
So we're kind of in the twilight zone between the two, which leads us to the sixth, and that is the opiate of false prophets psychology.
There's all the predictions that every religious tradition seems to have, pointing the finger at everybody else as having false prophets and saviors.
Since they're all doing it to each other, it might not be the end.
It may very well be.
It's something that's new, and it's an organization that's last year brought into the earth.
It later, with centuries, becomes an organization, a political unit, a dogma.
And there seems to be a cycle in history and in prophecy where the established dogmas of today So in a way the Antichrist that everyone keeps talking about could just as much be the established religious thinking as it is some new character who wants to undermine things.
Well it seems to me, John, the breakdown Uh, in confidence in our present political system is already very well underway.
Uh, as a matter of fact, I've felt it on a personal basis.
Uh, the right, the left, the middle.
I look at what Washington does these days, uh, and, um, I've almost given up, John.
I tell you, um, the two major political parties seem to do Nothing that, in the end, is all that different, nor pleasing in any way.
So, that process seems well underway, and I think I'm joined by Benny in that.
Oh, yes.
It's almost like if we picture ourselves on the veranda, we'll both go to the mansion on the country side.
This is 1896, and we're thinking about I have a direction that Russia is going in.
The Star is still established, the Suma and everything is still there, but it has very interesting parallels to our current political system.
It's functioning, it's creaking along, people are talking about reform, but they really don't mean it.
You know, we have the gangriches of the world who talk a lot about revolution, but really not putting their money where their mouth is.
And then, If you then look at a few years ahead, we might get the first warning of evolution in the 2005, just like in 1905.
And then maybe in the second decade of the 21st century, some prophets believe there may actually be a new civil war
in America that will lead to a new constitution by 2025.
Yeah, and then the Mormon prophets are the source of a lot of those predictions about a second civil war, and it's not
the same as the last one.
It is a civil war that's basically similar to prophecies about World War III in general.
It's a global civil war.
It's a breakdown of society as we know it in preparation for a new society.
It's a war between families, between streets, cities, and states, and whatnot.
It's basically what I like to call a World War free-for-all.
Mad Max.
It's Mad Max and my hunch is what will happen is...
It may be like the other alternative, which is people seeing the threat of their stupidity as dangerous as people used to see Adolf Hitler in the last 50 years.
And, you know, America galvanized itself, certainly had its warnings of Hitler, and then when the war took place, suddenly incredible creativity and unity came in the nation.
It would be just wonderful if people, instead of fighting each other, could fight their stupidity in the same way they fought World War II.
Well, it is clear to me, John, and you mentioned this earlier, I've traveled the world.
And third world nations, worldwide, are striving now to be what we are.
And they're beginning to have the problems we have.
Pollution makes some of what we have look like great air, believe me.
I know, I lived in India for mostly 80 years.
In Bangkok, for example, half the police who direct traffic have lung disease.
Serious, fatal lung disease.
I mean, it's horrible.
Absolutely horrible.
And these third world nations are all moving and walking toward what we have.
That's not going to be possible.
And the world will collapse unto itself long before they achieve it.
And this is why what we're doing right now tonight is to make the alchemy, to make this, with our awareness and creativity, a system that warns people in the third world, that warns and also And get people more in a position to make their own responsible choices.
Oh, you're quite right.
As a matter of fact, I've read to you that business owners are related to you.
I don't necessarily agree with that.
You can get a piece of that.
It's a private diversity as well as public.
It does not have to be.
Everything you know, core of nuclear power is not the animation.
It's the way people use it.
Ultimately, it's not the things we create that are a problem.
It is the unconscious sleepwalker who's not aware of him or herself, who creates these things, who only thinks of some of the consequences of their creation and not all of them.
And the only way that can initially be changed is the need to provide new data, new ideas,
to as many people as possible, and then allow them the freedom of choice to respond, be
able to respond to responsibility, if you will, be responsible to their own lives.
Alright, well, I guess I would have to say this.
The popularity of my program, the kind of program I do here, accounts for being able to suggest there is this new thinking that has begun.
However, the major mass media Uh, I'm afraid really has not caught up with that yet.
And until that happens, there are going to be many more sleepwalkers out there.
They are going to be deleted.
Yes, indeed.
But there's a two-edged sword with it.
The more sleepwalkers, the more we step towards the new century.
Every day we enter deeper into the 21st century, the weather's going to get worse, the food's going to get less, The resources are going to get less, and basically even the idiotic mainstream press, which I've also had a lot of experience with, will have to face this problem.
John, hold it right there.
We'll be right back.
John, just sort of a general question.
of Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and many more.
John, just sort of a general question.
Why is it good to know?
Well, it's good to know rather than, in my experience, it's better to know than to believe.
If you believe, if you strip belief of all of its sugar coatings and cloaks and metaphors, what you find is belief, bluntly, is standing upon ignorance.
It's been the basis of many religions and many political concepts Uh, and probably one of the basis for a lot of our misery in history.
Yeah, but let me be the devil's advocate for a moment and say, look, uh, ignorance, okay, fine.
You want to say I'm ignorant?
Because I don't want to know.
Fine.
But for me, ignorance is bliss.
I'm living my day, uh, today life.
I have a family.
I have things to do.
Um, I listen to these coming disasters and changes and It just causes me mental distress.
I'd rather just be blissfully ignorant.
And that's, to put it bluntly but compassionately, exactly how our society is created into mediocrity.
Because as long as you're a good machine in your family unit that's very controllable by the powers that be, then you will continue to march off to the world wars and March off to this and that, and ignore the dangers that are coming.
And I'm not really condemning people for it.
I feel great compassion for all of them.
I'm in the same boat anyone else is in.
Through meditation over the last 20 years, I've come to understand how conditioned and programmed I am, and what a mediocrity I am.
And it has been... There comes a time where you just can't...
Stay a machine anymore.
You start wanting to break loose.
And, you know, it's a choice.
I would never want to force anyone to join in this journey with me unless they really wanted to do it, because it can be painful.
You have to drop a lot of illusions.
Then again, you talk about the bliss of ignorance.
There's another bliss that starts to arise when you do start dropping a lot of these things.
And it's a bliss of knowing something of true integrity about your being.
That no matter what your priests or your politicians or pedagogues say, I cannot sway you from your own majority of one truth.
And that grows.
And it has a subtle bliss to it that is much, much bigger and much more worth being, in my opinion, blissfully ignorant.
How far would I have to have my head in the sand for 1997, my way of asking?
What can you tell us about this year that lies just ahead?
In the Jewish calendar, it is the millennium.
It is, in the solar calendar, a few years off from the millennium.
It is a time where I think we will see even more dramatic weather changes.
I would not at all be surprised if the mainstream news even gets more daring about accepting the fact that we have a global warming condition coming.
At the same time, it is a time which will probably see a push and a pull of people who wish to stay righteously involved with what they believe.
Well, in fact, this is a symptom of global warming.
I'm reacting to that or responding to that, more and more people are going to want to
shake that off.
Alright, well, a lot of people in your area, there in Seattle, say global warming?
Ha ha ha ha ha!
Who are you kidding?
It's getting cold!
Well, in fact, this is a symptom of global warming.
Yes.
These, when you have hotter equatorial regions, the tropical moisture is pumped much farther
north because of the strength of a warmer planet.
And what we have happening in Seattle, and which happened also in the eastern seaboard, is tropical moisture that's pumped up and pushed so fast that it actually goes far enough north that it hits cold air and creates huge snow events.
And the huge snow events are actually the first symptom of global warming.
Right.
I just wanted to make you say that because I know what a lot of people up there are going to be saying.
And when you have a change in one area, it produces a change in another area.
In other words, weather is an interesting sort of thing.
And for example, if you have rain in one area, or a lot of it, then you have dryness, or even drought, in another area.
This should begin around 1998 and get quite intense around the turn of the century.
We may see large areas, we may see the Mississippi River area, and areas in Africa and India suffer similar to what we saw in the mid-1980s.
Wow.
Hopefully, we will take these tragedies and use them in the right way.
Soldiering our awareness rather than burying ourselves deeper in the sand.
What about earth changes, aside from the weather, which I fully agree, we're going to have a terrible year and it's well underway.
You don't have to be a predictor, it's already occurring.
What about earth changes, earthquakes, that sort of thing?
1998 is going to be a busy year.
And Spring of 2000 is also going to be a busy year in Earth changes.
Although I do not subscribe to the maps of huge areas sunk, I don't think that's going to happen.
I think what you will see, and I've had a pretty good track record with earthquake predictions, you will see sinkage is the plan that extreme at the nineteen sixty four
alaska quake in the next five years
that was reduced but you won't see the west falling into the even if you keep
you can get that wrong and have bigger casey with a courageous enough profit
actually record uh...
that friends apology i think it
you probably have to do that well you've studied are not just most of all this book a cn
eighty nine others at least
uh...
How much real similarity, when you break it all down and study it, and that's what you've done, how much similarity is there in what they all say?
There is a lot of similarity in basic themes.
You have, shortly after the turn of the century, everybody pretty much running out of predictions
of this considerable group of about 100 prophets with a proven track record.
As though we ran out of time.
Or we stopped being so predictable.
Because after 23 years of studying this, I've come to the conclusion that prophecy works
because we're predictable.
We repeat the past and call it the future because we keep conditioning every new generation.
We feed them with our mistakes and our biases and limitations and mediocrities so that they
maybe are dressed differently and have different technologies, but essentially they do the
same stupid things.
And it is that syndrome, that rut of repaint that makes fantasy work.
We're coming up to a period where we can't do that anymore, so it may be the racial imperative of the human race to nurture genius and spontaneity to survive.
You know, John, it seems when you look at our social behavior as though race relations should be, if we're on the right track, should be Improving, uh, that, uh, the differences that, that Marcus, uh, with skin color or religion should be disappearing.
And yet, they appear instead to be sharpening.
Race relations, yes, we have passed laws in this country, civilized as we are.
But we have not yet changed hearts.
In fact, if anything, it's going the wrong way.
Yes, because in a way we are not really yet taking this seriously.
Because you see, when you look at all the laws made and you look at the kind of Testimonial for change from Clinton down.
What you're seeing is people who say, yeah, we want to build a bridge in the 21st century, but we want to take all our garbage over there with us.
And the problem is, we're going to have to strip bare of all that stuff when we cross that bridge.
And when we get on the other side, we have to start all over again.
Yes.
And that's a beautiful thing.
It can be.
All right.
I have many, many people who would like to talk to you, so let us begin to go to the phones and see what's out there.
How's that?
Okay.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you are on the air with John Hogue.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Would you turn your radio off and go right ahead?
Okay, great.
That's the first time I've been able to get through.
I'm calling from Arizona.
Yes.
Yes.
And I would like to ask, he was talking about the seven plagues.
Yes.
From Revelation.
And I was wondering if you're going to consider that true, then that means that I would like to ask if he considers the entire content of the Book of Revelation to be true, and if he does, then what does that really mean?
Well, it is a question of the cart or the horse.
Although the Book of Revelation has these There's a wealth of other religions that also have their scriptures concerning these seven final plagues.
So, depending where your bias is, you could equally say the Book of Revelations matches the Hindu prophecies of the Puranas, or it matches the Dharmapada, and so on.
It's in my case, I look at them all and I try through meditation to look at my own biases and the biases of prophets, their hopes, their fears and projections that they kind of cloud the magic mirror, if you will, with dust.
Yes, we have to brush off those politically correct ideas and religiously correct ideas and have a fresh look at the prophets.
And when that is done, I see the correlations beyond the agenda, the essential visions.
For instance, there are so many traditions that are looking for a new Messiah to come, not just the second coming of Christ.
In my book, the Millennium Book of Prophecy, I have a whole page full of just an example of dozens of different Messiahs that are coming.
John, do you believe the Antichrist lives now?
The Antichrist, as I see it, is that which chooses not to grow.
And I see the Messiah as the collective consciousness, the will to become human beings.
I don't see it as personifications.
I think that's where a lot of people may miss what's coming because...
Jesus, who even quoted verbatim some of Buddha's ideas, like doing to others what you have to do unto you, comes...
It was totally not in the mainstream's agenda.
And now what we have is people collectively in the mainstream expecting a Jesus Christ from 2,000 years ago to basically come again.
And it's all too predictable.
The vast majority of people will miss the actual event because of their prejudice.
Ease to the Rockies.
You're on the air with John Hoag.
Good evening.
Good evening.
Where are you, sir?
I'm Steve in Ohio.
All right, Steve, go ahead.
I just wanted to tell them that I'm sitting here in Ohio on the snow belt.
It's 60 degrees.
60 degrees in Ohio?
Yep.
It was 60 degrees yesterday and it was about 58 today.
Well, where John Hoag is in Seattle, it looks like Ohio.
Yeah, I know what it should be, yeah.
It was 25 last night.
Now it's 45.
No, all in Seattle?
Yeah, just within 12-15 hours it did a dramatic change.
And again, very greenhouse effect in quality.
Well, that's all I wanted to say.
All right, thank you very much for saying it.
Bye, Steve.
We could, look, we could take calls from now until Doomsday about something weird in weather.
And I think when the hurricane season comes again, and spring dawns, it's going to be an awful one.
Once again, not hard to predict, is it?
Uh, not hard to predict, but amazing that people centuries ago were predicting it.
That's what makes it intriguing.
I mean, it's not so hard for us to see it in the near future, but when a man at the turn of the century named Anton Johansson predicted greenhouse hurricanes going as far north as England, and at a time when that just wasn't happening, it's pretty remarkable.
And another important point, 1996 actually had more damaging storms than the previous year, even though there were not as many storms.
Well, you know, if we keep fooling Mother Nature and putting out these fires of diseases and protecting people from ravaging storms that otherwise would kill with great new technology and warnings, won't Mother Nature ultimately escalate the battle?
I think yes.
It's really a question back to the mice and men syndrome.
It's like, if we just allow trust in our ignorance and trust and faith that something's going to save us and just go on blissfully unconscious of what we're doing, then we're no better than the mice who overpopulate their range and then Mother Nature takes care of them.
Now, the beauty about being human is that we have much more capability to see this coming and change it, but it means
we have to drop something. We're going to have to pay for it and we can't
have our cake and eat it too.
We may have to have a moratorium on all births around the world for 20 years if
we want to deal with it without a great disaster.
Well, again, I really think the forest analogy is the best one.
You keep putting out little fires, you keep putting them out, putting them out, and it's not a matter of when there's going to be a big, tragic fire.
Whether there's going to be one, it's a matter of when.
There's going to be one.
We see it year after year after year after year in the forested areas of the West and the Northwest.
And to use your metaphor, there have been forced service people who have seen this problem, and are now beginning to do control burns where they do burn a lot of the undergrowth in large-scale burnings.
It is true.
I'm a bush fireman myself, and you see that happening now.
It is true, but they're still the minority.
It is true, and the way I look at it is that we're on an uphill battle.
It's like the mountain peak is still way above us, but I celebrate every step that I can take towards it.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hogue on Dreamland.
Hello, where are you?
Hello there.
Going once, going twice, gone.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Hogue.
Hi.
Hello, this is Aries in Illinois.
Yes, sir.
A moment ago you said, not you, but Mr. Hogue, uh... said that uh...
he believed the antichrist wasn't
uh... literal person but uh... napoleon
predict uh...
not to go with predicted that uh...
would be three antichrist in the third one was marvelous right
uh... and the first two i believe were it was not a napoleon the wall
the poland the king histor
radolf hitler and uh... marvelous
and also when there are two possible names yeah i'm not a school wouldn't that be saddam hussein
Well, it is one of the high candidates, certainly.
It is also possible that, unlike the first two, the man could be a very minor character.
Because he says in that prophecy that Mamba soon dies, that he's the first casualty of his own war.
And that almost sounds similar to Gavrilo Princip, the Serbian assassin who shot Franz Ferdinand and triggered World War I.
It could be equally some terrorist organization or a group of dedicated terrorists who set off a nuclear terrorist event that triggers World War III.
When they die, they're the first people to die.
It's always important with prophecy to never assume what happened in the past will happen again in the future.
But at the same time, because of our predictability, one has to equally be aware that it could be repeated again.
While we don't have a Cold War to worry about, we sure do have terrorism to worry about.
And perhaps they will sow the seeds that will assist Mother Nature, whether it be with biological agents or nuclear weapons.
What do you expect?
Well, I expect that where we had in the 70s and 80s the politics of oil, we're going to have a new political world by the 2020s where China will fill the void left by the Soviet Union.
We'll have two superpowers again.
And China will use its alliances with the Middle Eastern OPEC nations to counterbalance America's use of wheat as a political weapon when there's no more food.
So, if there is a global situation by 2010 or 20, you will see that this will be the weapons that are used to wage in a world balance of power.
I surely believe that, John.
I took a trip to China, to Hong Kong, and then up into the economic areas, and then finally up into Canton.
And, John, what I saw in China, Will haunt me for the rest of my life.
I saw economic activity that would remind one of the old industrial United States, only on a scale that boggles your mind.
The people in this country, in the world, have no idea what's coming with China.
No idea at all.
And the only way to know is to go and see it for yourself.
John, hold on.
We'll be back with you in a moment.
John Hogue, Edgar Cayce, And combines it with as many as 89 more.
And we'll get back to John Hogue in a moment.
In snow country, Seattle, John, I could read you many, many, many thankful and good faxes.
But instead, I will challenge you with one that I received that is not complimentary.
Okay.
And it simply says, What a charlatan.
Does your guest read tea leaves, too?
Now, what we have here... What we have here, John, is anger generated by fear, and one of those sleepwalkers out there just happened to tune in tonight and is scared to death by what he's hearing, and so he writes a fax like this.
How do you respond to somebody like that?
He should be scared to death.
He should be scared to death because If he's wanting to hold on to his illusions to Doomsday, anything that shakes that should happen, but you know...
It's tea leaves.
It's such a cliché.
I was hoping that the person would actually say something more intelligent.
Are there any other nasty facts that are a little more elegant?
No, no, no.
That's the only one so far.
Oh, too bad.
Oh, well.
I mean, it's sticks and stones and cliché bones don't disturb being botched.
And if it does, that's something for me to look at.
Maybe it's not the right moment, but I'm finally on the World Wide Web, and I was wondering if people could reach me and send their faxes direct.
You may indeed.
All right.
The new, it is www.lauralee.com slash hoge.htm
Hmm.
And if people want to get my books, they can call the radio bookstore at 1-800-243-1438.
All right.
Your new book, The Millennium Book of Prophecy, it's suggested was not due out in a massive way until spring.
People can get it now?
Yes.
In fact, it's a It is the special cyber fully illustrated version.
I created the first special edition which looks like it came from the middle of the next century.
It has a lot of cutting edge computer graphics and unique layouts to kind of subliminally catch you as much as the worst.
And there's only a few thousand copies left of that, and there's going to be a print-only version that's coming out in May.
All right.
And the book you mentioned earlier of Nostradamus, The Complete Prophecies, is not going to be out until April.
I just finished it two days ago.
Two days ago, all right.
Is time going to end, John?
Time ends every moment.
Sometimes I think time is a projection that we try to clothe the eternal present in.
Nostradamus talked about that in his letters and confessions about his occult work.
He talked about stilling his mind and his body and his emotions so that he could reach a state where he could embrace the eternity of the present, he calls it, almost like what we might call the continuum of now.
So time's a really funny thing.
Our concepts of time are almost like many of the other projections we put on things.
They change according to our perceptions.
I've thought of time mostly as our invention.
Something that we really had to create so that we would know when to do this or to do that or to be able to observe the passage of time and events.
But it seems to me to be really our invention At any rate, what about, and I see you write in here, about the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?
Yes, it's time for an update.
The Four Hell Riders of Doomsday?
Yes, I thought it would be fair to have the allegories, and the person of the apocalypse,
be two men and two women, to give fairness to all allegories.
I guess.
And so I changed them.
And if people go out and buy the book, they can still see the special artwork.
We even recreated the Dürer wood prints, made them in color.
And the first Hellrider, the trailblazer, if you will, is what I call overpopulation.
She is riding a starving horse, and her weapon is an empty begging bowl, and she has an enormous pregnancy, and she is the population birthing urge run amok.
You know, if we dealt just with the overpopulation issues, so many of the problems we have in the world could be eradicated.
It's just too many of us, and too little to go around.
Uh, she is followed by the second Hell Rider, who is a ravaged Earth Goddess called Earth Trauma.
And this is Mother Earth's reaction to us overburdening her world with, uh, ecological disasters and, uh, and disruption.
She is followed by a knight with a hamster's head and a huge syringe as a lance, and he is the Lemming Syndrome.
And he is the repressed collective desire for unlovingness and self-destruction that breeds itself in our physical world into diseases.
And we've talked at length about that chapter.
The final Hellrider is a dark angel descending on the Middle East from space with a borrowed Russian nuclear weapon as his lance.
And he has a He looks like a terrorist, and on his breast is a happy face button.
And he is called the Third World War.
You know, all of those four horses are either at a full gallop right now, or the riders are saddling up.
Yes, and then the most important issue is the horse they all ride.
The motive force that makes these four dimensions of prophetic unconsciousness, prophetic antichrist, if you will, come into our world.
And that breed of horse that they ride is what I call a nightmare unconscious.
And that is the The lack of humanity in us, you know, we sometimes seem to be, as we said before, machines, animals that talk, as the Suleiman Dede, the Sufi mystic, used to call us.
And the thing to understand is this unconsciousness, to understand why we're unconscious, why this runs our lives.
I mean to go back to your idea of time, you know we of course need language and we need labels to function in this world and we always will.
Right.
But the way we're trained is we start identifying with these labels to the point that we're
ready to go to war for little pieces of cloth on sticks for, you know, more human religion
versus someone else's religion.
And it's just amazing how over time we have allowed ourselves to be completely identified
with our labels rather than use them.
Here's Larry in Abilene, Kansas.
Larry writes, it may disturb and or surprise you to know just how many people out there now would support, even look forward to, a civil war in this country.
I fit into this category.
But let me make it clear, I'm not a warmonger or an insurrectionist by nature.
Everything's out of control.
Our government, Our citizenry?
I'm ready.
Let's go to war.
Probably a lot of people said that in the Weimar Republic, too, after World War I in Germany.
There were a lot of people that were really upset with the chaos that came to Germany, and they were thinking, it's time for a revolution.
Some of them wore brown shirts and helped Adolf Hitler restore order.
And that is a thing to be aware of, is the Ukrainian age is actually, in the next 20 centuries, we're going to have to watch out for the Hitlers and the Stalin, because those are aspects of the future.
You know, Adolf Hitler was actually quite a good prophet, even though he was quite dark.
And he predicted the Cold War a few days before he committed suicide.
To a T, he predicted it.
And he also talked about the rise of fascism would come again in 100 years, by the 2040s.
And one could almost see the danger of that if the whole world behaves like the chaotic Weimar Republic, breaking down and in chaos.
People, in their unconsciousness, will demand order.
Alright, well there will be chaos if I don't go back to the phone.
So, first time caller on the line, you're on the air with John Hogue.
Good evening.
Yes, speak up so you're not too loud here.
Where are you?
I'm here in Honey Hutt, California.
Alright, go ahead.
Hey, I got a question for you.
Hey, what would you call a modern Nostradamus at this time?
Would you call him a clairvoyant?
Remote viewer?
All right, well, maybe we ought to ask, is there a modern-day equivalent of Nostradamus on Earth and alive now?
No, not to my knowledge, and also, there are a lot of candidates that I'm looking at, but I usually, with every candidate, say, all right, everybody can claim to be a prophet.
Give me six months of predictions, and if you're 75% accurate or over, Then I will investigate you further, so it takes a little time.
I would say the last person that would match that would be Edgar Cayce.
And I would say that a little more recently, the mystic Osho was quite accurate in his predictions.
I mean, he predicted AIDS five, six years before it happened, many of the things that are happening.
A lot of the mystics of the 20th century, like Gurdjieff and Adidas Santosha, who used to be known as Free John, Um, actually a quite good profit.
Um, Art?
Yes, sir?
Yeah, uh, you'll be receiving a, uh, a letter.
Fourteen pages.
It's coming in at Mail Express.
All right.
All right.
Take, uh, take a gimpse out of that, and, uh, you might be calling me back.
All right.
Uh, thank you very much for the call, and, uh, have a good evening.
Uh, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Hogue.
Good evening.
Hi, my name's Shirley, and I'm from Corrupt, Nevada.
Shirley!
You're a neighbor!
Yeah!
All right.
I have a question.
I've been looking for this woman that's an author.
She wrote a book saying, I don't know if she was hypnotized, but Nostradamus came to her and asked her to write down a thousand different interpretations.
Oh, yes.
Because we were interpreting them wrong.
Yes, I think that must be Dolores Cannon you're talking about.
I think you've got that right.
I have a problem with Dolores.
She's very sincere, first off, I want to say.
But I was on a show, Ancient Prophecies, on NBC where they had our interviews back-to-back, and I was rather surprised and shocked that neither her nor her spirit guide Uh, has obviously never set foot in the stumps of Secret Study because it was described completely wrong to the one that actually exists today, which you can go see in Salon en Provence in France.
Okay.
So, the problem with channeling is there are very few channelers that really measure up to their own press clippings.
I couldn't agree more.
That is my one great area of skepticism, and it's not because channeling may not exist, just because there's so much room for fraud.
I mean, Edgar Cayce is one of the few that I don't have that feeling with.
He was sincerely a great medium.
Because he has the proof.
He documented all of his readings and you can check them against the event.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hogue.
Good evening.
Good evening, Art.
Where are you?
Valley, Nebraska.
Alright, good.
Go ahead.
I have a couple of questions.
One is, what do you think we should do to prepare for this millennium?
We should listen to our own intuitions, our dreams, our gut feelings about the future?
Well yes, those and I would also cultivate the ability to understand, to reflect upon one's habits.
You know, why do I think this way?
Why is it that sometimes people push my buttons and I get emotional?
I think the most important message could be that each individual listening tonight trying
to find a way to observe their own thoughts and feelings and emotions without judgment,
just breathing and relaxing and just seeing them like a movie and seeing where they originate
from.
When you see one image, you pull the layer aside and see if there's something underneath
that.
If you hear a voice of authority in your mind, see if it has the voice of your father or
your mother or your priest or politician.
If it doesn't have your voice, then it's probably not your truth.
It's borrowed from something else, from someone else.
What do you think about dreams?
Well, dreams are the way, in my experience, dreams are the way the subconscious is trying to tell me what I'm repressing.
Yes, I have the belief from meditating for 20 years that human beings are basically trained from day one to repress a lot of their truth and their feelings to survive in a world that wants mediocrity.
When you start coming out of that, you suddenly realize that there's a whole lot of things Because you don't find ways to express it or cathartic meditation or something to release it, to see it, it becomes many of the diseases and problems that happen to people.
I mean, many of the people who suddenly freak out and kill a bunch of people with guns are people who hold their rage all inside of them.
Many of the people who beat their wives and children are people that don't beat a pillow 20 minutes a day.
I mean, if everybody beat a pillow 20 minutes a day, You would lose a lot of the rage that you would throw on your fellow man and woman.
Because I, for the past five years, have gotten a lot into dreams and I've been having a few prophetic visions of what happens in my future and a lot of times I just don't listen to it.
Alright, well that brings up a good point.
John, I was talking to a guest about dreams not long ago and Uh, we rarely, except on shows like this, compare dreams.
And it was suggested that we have a dream registry.
Literally, where people can record their dreams and we can begin to decide if mankind is beginning to have mass prophetic dreams of the future.
Because otherwise I know of no such collection point of that sort of information.
Well, they call it in some cases the Akashic Records.
I remember when I had a near-death experience that I had what may have been an experience of a glimpse of that.
And later in my studies in India, mistakes taught me that there's the collective unconscious and there's the collective super unconscious.
Exactly.
That we not only have personal unconscious dreams, but we can, with awareness, tap into the collective dreams of the human race.
And in the same way, we can awaken to collective consciousness and collective super-consciousness.
The apocalypse of the Buddhas, if you will.
You know, apocalypse means enlightenment in ancient Greek.
All of this begins to sound a little new agey, but what I'm saying is, what if something awful happens, and it turns out that maybe millions of people were having similar dreams, and somehow, because we never compared, never collected, We missed it.
The message was there.
We were all being warned.
But we missed it, John.
All right, hold on.
We're at the bottom of the hour, and we'll be right back.
My guest is John Hoag.
He's a Nostradamus scholar, and there will be more.
From the high deserts, an area near Dreamland, this is Dreamland.
From the Kingdom of Nye, you're hearing Dreamland with Art Bell.
To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-8255.
First-time callers, area code 702-727-1222, or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
This is the CBC Radio Network.
Facing a brand new year shortly.
Talking about the future.
John Hogue is my guest.
A Nostradamus scholar.
Back to him in a moment.
Is left to it.
First time caller line.
You're on the air with John Hogue.
Hi.
Hi.
Where are you, sir?
My name's John.
I'm in Lahaina, Bali, Hawaii.
Excellent.
All right.
John, meet John.
Go ahead.
Hey, John.
What about I have, like, two questions for you.
The first one, what about, like, this volcano that's coming up off the Big Island?
Have you heard about it?
Ah, yes.
Yes, that's, uh, that's... It's definitely a hot spot on the planet.
Uh, still got a lot of miles of water to climb up, uh, out of the forest surfaces, but, uh, that doesn't mean there might not be major seismic activity in the southern part of Hawaii, the Big Island.
Uh, because of And I might add that in the Caribbean, Montserrat is getting ready to let go big time.
Yes, and Rainier did a little earthquake rumbling in the last few years.
along the San Juan de Fuca street and that could cause some major events.
And I might add that in the Caribbean, Montserrat is getting ready to let go big time.
Yes, and Rainier did a little earthquake rumbling in the last few years.
I remember I was on Northwest Afternoon saying that July, August of 95 there might be some event
and fortunately there was only a small quake on the top of it.
So, there again, predictions can be changed by events or directions we take.
I mean, Nacho Domino has made it very clear that in his writings that the future is not written in stone.
It's full of quantum possibilities born out of the present.
Caller, any idea what you would like to name your new Hawaiian island?
It's already named.
I forget the name of it.
It starts with an I. Darn.
All right.
A missed opportunity, no doubt.
All right.
Thank you very much.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Hogue.
Hi.
Hi, it's Terry from Calgary.
I was just curious, earlier your guest mentioned some of the modern-day prophets.
Yes, you're Calgary, Alberta?
Yes.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, and I was just curious as to, I noticed the Avoidance of people that you've had in your show, like Gordon Michael Scallion and Robert Gosell, so hang out and listen and see if there's any comments about the individual.
Alright, Gordon Michael Scallion, Native American prophecy, that sort of thing, do you look at that, John, along with everything else?
Oh yes, I look at everything that's going on and study it and see its accuracy.
I don't I actually put a lot of credibility to a lot of Gordon Michael Scallion's predictions because actually lately he's had a lot of them not be correct and I just think the map of
Yeah, it's actually a very old map.
It's Edgar Cayce and decades afterwards, the Earthquake Generation book written by Jeffrey Goodman had very similar maps.
To make it sound like it's something new, it's not.
I'm not wild about it because where I am is more or less underwater.
I think I would stake my reputation as a scholar that it will not happen that way.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hogue.
Hi.
Yes.
Hi, John.
Hi.
Two questions for you.
Question number one, I want to ask you a question about whether it has to do with Nostradamus and or other prophets, if they've talked about our first contact with extraterrestrial life.
And let me relate that to something that will happen in 1997, and also it relates to Richard Hoagland, who Art Bell has had on many times on this show.
As you know, the Mars Global Surveyor will orbit Mars September 97, and starting about January 98, it will begin its magnetic mission to Mars.
What I want to ask you for question number one is, in relation to Richard Hoagland's theories, which I feel does have some merit and may be true of the so-called space on Mars, have there been any prophets who've said in one form or another that something like a spacecraft like coming up Mars, Global Surveyor, will or will not verify, test, you know, make a testable, the theory that there is It may be, in fact, an artificial face on Mars.
All right, all right, sir.
Where are you calling from?
West Hartford, Connecticut.
All right, excellent.
Yes, we've got a probe going.
You know about the artifacts on Mars, John?
The theory of them, yes.
I have the books and pictures, yes.
What do you think?
I see nothing in Nostradamus that could even be stretched to talk about the Mars probe.
Although I'm sure, like people, will try to stretch OJ Simpson's bloody glove in Nostradamus.
I'm sure somebody will give it a try, but after 20 years of studying Old French and studying Nostradamus's ways of using it, I have not seen anything of that nature.
However, there are definitely going to be Soon, some discovery of extraterrestrial life, which could be as big a shift in the Earth's axis of consciousness as the other predictions which talk about a shift of the physical axis of the Earth, which causes great cataclysm.
So you feel that revelation, that of extraterrestrial life, is imminent?
Oh yes.
In fact, it's amazing how much the lid can still be stuck on it. It's already known. It's almost as if the
powers that be are just trying to find a way that they can utilize it to keep people mediocre.
The problem is that once you let this genie out of the bottle, you're going to have
what Arthur C. Clarke mentioned that overnight, global government, United Nations, all that
will work because people will drop their national difficulties because of the fear
they will have of some enemy out Indeed.
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hogue.
Good evening.
Good evening.
This is Chris in Ashland, Oregon.
Yes, sir.
And I'm very interested in black African spirituality and culture.
And I find that it has a lot of beauty and festivity and love to it.
And I'd love to think that somehow those kind of traditions may have an important role in the future of all of us.
Particularly in the racial issues.
And I'm wondering if there's anything in the record of prophecies that might indicate anything like that.
All the native people to the world talk about the return of native values.
Some of them get a bit extreme and say that all technology will disappear and the bubble flow will return and what have you, and in a way sound as extreme as other righteous religious traditions who think everything will conform to their worldview.
However, if you take that bias off and look at it, one sees already the white people of America starting to take on A lot of the traditions of Native peoples, you see a renaissance of that in the West here, and this is something that I think Ray Bradbury said really poetically in his Martian Chronicles, that at the end of the book, the human beings who colonized Mars ended up becoming the Martians that they had destroyed.
They started taking on the spirit of the martian
in the same way uh... one of the great crimes of humanity with the white
men have done to native peoples in the world
uh...
may never the reconciled but
strangely enough the the the uh...
people who raped those societies may eventually take on their wisdom
uh... in a recent uh... contemporary movie in the theaters right now
uh... timber uh... in a movie called mars attacks
Yeah, I saw it too.
Oh, you saw it?
Yeah, just a few days ago, yeah.
Uh, the first thing destroyed is my little town, John.
Pahrump, Nevada.
Of all places.
I don't suppose Nostradamus or any other, uh, prophet, old or modern, uh, has Pahrump being destroyed.
No, I can't even find it in an anagram.
That's good, I'm glad to hear that.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with John Hoag.
Where are you calling from, please?
Uh, Cape Coral, Florida.
Uh, Cape Coral, Florida, alright?
Yes.
Go ahead.
I was wondering what he thinks about the problem with the government, not really overpopulation, but even our own government pays the farmers not to grow food, and in other countries they use food as a weapon.
Neutralize their enemies and you know, I don't see the problem being overpopulation as being a tyrannical government.
All right.
Good question.
Well, it's a good point, but what will you do when there's 20 billion people in the year 2020 and then in another decade or two, there's 15 billion.
It will soon, maybe it is manageable to this point, but soon it's going to be a problem that's going to transcend What governments can even do to repress and control if they don't start changing radically the way they behave now?
Well, John, in China, where they have a government that lays down the law, and it's really the law, they allow only so many births.
In the Western world, we have Catholicism, and we have freedom, and we have All kinds of things, societal things, that say you can reproduce as much as you want to.
How will that change?
The problem is that our understanding of freedom is unconscious.
We think freedom and we don't see the equal need for responsibility.
That with freedom there has to be exactly the same measure of responsibility.
When people think freedom now, they think, well, I'm free, I can do whatever I want.
But that means, what you're saying is, I don't even want to consider the consequences of my free action.
So, in a way, where we've been let down is not even at the government level.
They're also, in a way, victims of the same problem.
We've been let down in the way we've been trained from youth, from childhood on, to see the whole picture.
If anything, it's our educators and our historians who have Are at least equally responsible for the breakdown.
People are not being trained to think, to observe the consequences of action.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you are on the air with John Hogue.
Good evening.
Hi.
I was wanting to know if there was any mention to a one world government or a new world order
by Nostradamus?
Yes, there he talks about the blue hat of the UN and it can definitely be applied to
his prophecies.
And in a way, whether people like it or not, I'm sure a lot of people didn't like cars
at the turn of the last century, but it became a reality for better or worse that people
had to deal with in the 20th century.
In the same way, we're at the threshold of dozens of different major changes like that.
And one of them is the political systems will have to be revitalized and revolutionized completely.
We are living in the future, in a future without nations.
It is just going to happen and we need to, rather than resist the reality of it, we need to make sure that that world government works for our individual Right, rather than just become a global police state.
Where are you calling from, sir?
Oh, I'm calling from Winnipeg, Canada.
Winnipeg, alright.
Very good.
Interesting.
So, it will happen.
This world government, this world Whatever it's going to be is indeed on the way, right?
Within the next 30 years, nations, as we know them, will disappear.
We will be one world.
And it could happen much sooner, depending on surprise factors like extraterrestrial discoveries or things like that, which bring the world together overnight.
All right.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with John Hogue.
Good evening.
Yes.
Nostradamus predicts that in 1999 in the seventh month, the great king of the Angamon,
the Aswan, comes from the skies and Mars shall reign at will. Is this an invasion?
No, the correct translation is in 1999, seven months, the great king of terror will descend
from the skies and resurrect the great Mongol or another way of saying it, the great Genghis Khan.
before and after Mars rolls happily.
Mars here is used as an astrological metaphor.
He often uses that.
Before and after can mean several things.
It's a bit cryptic.
Mars has two aspects in predictive astrology.
One is war.
The other is initiating new adventures.
It's the Magus, the high priest of transformation.
It's almost like he's leaving us the either-or.
Which one do we want to choose?
I mean, a lot of people think that the War of the Antichrist that Nussbaum talks about, including I believed it, began in 1973 and would end in 1999.
It may very well be that July of 1999 is the beginning of the War of the Third Antichrist, and it doesn't end until 2026.
John, after Wormwood in the Bible, it talks of locusts with things in their tails coming and pestering man for 42 months.
I was wondering if this went along with that prophecy.
Well, Wormwood in Ukrainian means churnable.
And it's actually, I commented on it, is one of the seven final plagues.
The Chernobyl radiation was probably one fulfilled.
That prophecy might have been fulfilled.
Now, many prophets, especially Nostradamus and the Bible prophets, use animals, perhaps, to describe machines.
Well, how about that referred to spaceship?
However, it can refer to locusts.
It can refer to locust plagues.
It can refer to Huey helicopters.
It can refer to Apache helicopters.
They really look like locusts.
One has to keep all the potentials open so that when something does come that stirs you, then you might see it.
You know, you might recognize what the prophecy means.
John, are you sure that the Chernobyl or Wormwood prophecy is yet totally fulfilled?
I ask that because 60 Minutes and lots of other credible organizations have recently done stories on the deteriorating sarcophagus that was placed over Chernobyl.
It's cracking, it's beginning to leak, and they're concerned about an explosion.
I wish they would talk about another important point of the IAEA.
We can tell everybody about this.
There are 10 to 11 Chernobyl-style reactors that have a life expectancy which runs out in 1996.
Including, by the way, John, one that's being built, as we speak, in Cuba.
And there is a nuclear reactor in Bulgaria that is in a warehouse.
It has no shielding whatsoever.
It's parts arresting.
Russian instructors left town because they weren't being paid and they left the plant to their students and it's still running.
Now I'm more amazed that we haven't had another churnable of Equal disaster happening.
But I think that is one of the highest potential for the next five years.
Now, Stavros talked about a plague of false dust that will require southern Europe's evacuation for nine months.
Now, if that doesn't sound like either nuclear terrorism or a nuclear disaster in the Balkans, or Italy, or what have you, if you look at the wind patterns of the areas, It would, of course, go over those areas.
Where does Southern Europe evacuate to?
Well, he doesn't say much about that.
He just says that everything's evacuated from Florence South, Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, the Peloponnesian Peninsula of Greece, and the Southern Balkans.
So, and the word false dust is really quite remarkable.
It also could be a biological plague or something like that too.
One has to leave all the options open so that we can heed the warning and change it.
Are you aware now that our government is going to investigate the possibility, as advertised
by Joyce Rowley for some time now, that biological agents were used in the Gulf War?
Well, you know, it is an update that I put in Millennium Book of Prophecy before the war when I wrote the first edition.
The Grand Teton Council of American Elders, two elders, had made a prediction saying that there would be this plague that no one expected that would come out of the Gulf War.
And it would spread all over the world.
And as you know, a few months ago, we've discovered that on the genetic level, whatever is brewing in the people's bodies is actually almost like an organism that can be contagious.
And it's spreading.
John, we could do hours and hours and hours, and we didn't have enough time.
We're out of time.
Quickly, the phone number to order your book, The Millennium Book of Prophecy, And, as a matter of fact, your other book, Nostradamus, The Complete Prophecies.
What number?
1-800-243-1438.
All right, my friend.
Out of time.
That's it.
Networks have to operate by the clock.
I'm sorry.
We could use hours and hours.
Thank you, John.
It has been a pleasure.
Same for me.
It's been wonderful.
Take care, my friend.
John Hogue.
And that's it, folks.
We're out of time.
To get a copy of this program, Call beginning now 1-800-917-4278.
That's 1-800-917-4278.
From the high desert near Dreamland, I'm Art Bell.
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