Art Bell

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Nov. 10, 1996 - Art Bell

01:24:16

Dreamland with Art Bell - Linda Moulton Howe - Cattle Mutilations - The Art of Conscious Dying - Bruce Goldberg

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19:17

bruce goldberg

56:27

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		This is Dreamland.
		It is, and it's going to be a very busy Dreamland.
		Good evening, everybody.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Of course, Linda Moltenhow from Philadelphia in a moment.
		And among other things, she has a significant update on arts, parts, so-called.
		Arts from a alleged UFO crash at or near Roswell.
		Followed by Dr. Bruce Goldberg, and we're going to talk about something called conscious dying.
		Conscious dying.
		I'm not sure who would do that or why, but we're sure going to find out.
		Now, without going into detail, because we don't have time right now, I've got several new, very important items on the website.
		Skoldberg, speaking of fascinating things, is coming up next.
		And he's going to talk to us about conscious dying.
		Now, Dr. Bruce Goldberg received his Doctor of Dental Surgery degree from the University of Maryland School of Dentistry and his hypnosis training from the American Society of Clinical Hypnosis.
		He earned his master's degree in counseling psychology from Loyola College.
		He's been all over radio and television for many years in this country.
		He wrote a book called The Search for Grace.
		And from the LA area, here is Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hi.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Ari.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you doing this evening?
		I am very well indeed.
		Thank you.
		Doctor, what in the world is conscious dying?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You introduced me earlier at 7 by saying why would anybody want to consciously die?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		First, let me define it, and I'll give you some very specific reasons and very empowering reasons as to why people actually do like to do it and have been doing it for years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess maybe we ought to define it first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say consciously die, what do you mean?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So I introduced a concept in my first book, Past Lives, Future Lives, about the idea of accessing the higher self and using that, shall we say, exposure to the higher self to raise the quality of the soul's energy now so people can overcome habits and phobias and they can perceive past lives, future lives, etc.
		So that's called cleansing, accessing the higher self.
		The purpose of conscious dying, what it really is, is maintaining that connection, training the average person to maintain that connection so they can maintain that absolute connection with the higher self at the moment of death.
		Even though they're perfectly safe now and they're not dying now, what they're doing is learning how to maintain that connection so at the exact precise moment of crossing into spirit or clinical death, they can now merge with their higher self into what I call a conscious out-of-body experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm struggling to understand this.
		We're going to have to bring this down to earth.
		Are you telling me you're talking about a way to have a near-death experience?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		without the near-death part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is the part where, for example, you know how people will have That's correct.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What it is, this is what you can do.
		Most people do not, but you can do this.
		And this is what the lamas in India and Tibet would do when the Tibetan Book of the Dead talked about.
		This is what the Egyptian Book of the Dead talk about.
		This is what recreant masses offer, the Christian masses.
		What this is, really, is a way of, think of it as the ultimate of spiritual growth, like Buddha's enlightenment under the Bodhi tree.
		What this is, is maintain the connection with the perfect part of your being, which we call the higher self, or clinically we call this the superconscious mind, and maintain that connection so that, almost like a reflex response, think of it as karmic Pavlovian responses here.
		At the moment of death, you will then maintain that connection, not just enter the white light, as you hear about in near death and actual death experiences, but merge with the white light, something you never hear about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You never hear about the merging.
		The white light, by the way, feels this, is your higher self.
		If you are surrounded by it, you're being protected, if you will.
		But if you merge with it, then you can do a very important thing, and that is literally perfect the soul and eliminate the need to reincarnate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, slow down.
		Let's go back to the white light for a second.
		I always understood, maybe falsely, the white light to be a sort of an entrance point, not into your higher self, but into what we think of as a step into heaven or a step into whatever is beyond, either as a transition or a final destination.
		I don't know.
		But I always thought of it as that.
		And you're saying not, huh?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, it's a mechanism.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		For example, I live in Los Angeles, and if you come to Los Angeles by airplane, there'll be a nice little escalator you can stand on while you're waiting to go to where your bags are being picked up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The escalator in this analogy is really the white light is around you.
		It is really your higher self.
		What it is doing, it is guiding you, if you will, to what we call the soul plane.
		This is a dimension far above the earth plane where you actually go to perceive the in-between life state.
		This is where you will select your next life.
		This is where you will be advised by your higher self, as well as your masters and guides, angels, whatever you want to refer to, your spirit guide.
		And this soul plane, if you will, is the bus station, so to speak, up there in the sky that will allow you to then perceive and karmically select your next life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, this bus station, is this in your higher self or is it an actual place removed from our consciousness or even?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's the latter.
		It's an actual place.
		It's an actual dimension, like a plane.
		We call this the plane concept, the earth plane.
		When people cross into spirit or clinically die, they go to the astral Plane where ghosts are, poltergeists, if you will.
		Then there's a causal plane, which is where the Akashic records are kept, the records of all our past and present and future lives.
		Then there's the mental etheric plane, and those make up the lower five planes or what we call the karmic cycle.
		Beyond that is the sixth plane, or the soul plane, which is that sort of like neutral zone, if you will, that demilitarized zone where you actually cannot incur any karma.
		And what you can do there now is literally think of it like being in a network station with all the monitors, look over all your past lives, including the one you just lived, with your higher self and your masters and guides, and nicely, objectively, and with perfect entities along with you, help you to select your next life, and then you actually will then reincarnate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		A lot of people in my audience listening to this right now are probably saying to themselves, now, how in the world does this guy know all this about what happens after we die?
		These various planes?
		I mean, you're being very specific.
		So it's a good question.
		How do you know all this?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I've done about 33,000 regressions on 11,000 different patients since 1974.
		So much of this information comes from what my patients tell me from what we call the superconscious level, which is accessing their perfect part of their being, of their consciousness.
		However, to supplement this, this is also not in conflict with the theosophical and other literature in the field.
		There is some disagreement of how many planes there are.
		Some say there are seven level planes.
		Some say there are five.
		But the name soul plane, the Yakashic records, the causal plane, the astral plane, there's no real disagreement about those terminology on those locations.
		The question is, it's like the devil are in the details, as they say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's a lot like the work of the Monroe Institute.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Monroe Institute, you understand, Monroe Institute, they're developing techniques of taking you out of body.
		They're not doing conscious dying.
		Nobody I know is doing conscious dying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I meant with respect to your definition of the various levels.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, they're trying to use frequencies to separate the left and right brain so the actual participant, if you will, the subject, can experience an out-of-body experience.
		And in a way that is sort of like preparing them indirectly, they're really doing this without really using the terms or the actual specifics because they don't really promote themselves as assuring enlightenment or trying to make that connection.
		The conscious out-of-body experience, or the C-O-B-E, if you will, is a term I coined several years ago.
		But what they're doing is, in principle, they're doing a regular OBE, out-of-body experience.
		All of our dreams are examples of out-of-body experiences.
		You and your listeners have all had dreams of flying or falling but not splatting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		These are out-of-body experience remnances, which, of course, we know from the research of Kripner and Ulna from Momdes in Brooklyn many years ago, and currently UCLA, Stanford, and others have also confirmed it, many others.
		So this is a form of like using the ultimate level of the out-of-body experience to not only do that, but also there's many other things you can do.
		One is that you can also, in addition to cleansing or raising your soul's energy, naturally one of the side effects will be increasing your psychic development.
		And that includes, but not limited to, progression or seeing into the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		May I ask you about something?
		Sure.
		I presume heading toward the state you're describing as conscious dying or a normal OBE, they all seem to begin for people about the same way.
		I interviewed a fellow named Al Taylor, Albert Taylor, last week, or at least a repeat of that, and he described the way OBEs begin, and they seem to begin with a state called sleep paralysis.
		And I've experienced that.
		It's a kind of a weird feeling where you seem to be possibly in between, but you're conscious, but you can't move.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The hypnagogue state.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I think he write the book, The Soul Traveler, I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know Albert.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		As a matter of fact, he was on a panel in Conscious Line when we did the Expo last weekend, so I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
		Well, is that about right?
		Now, I felt this.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		This is what the Tibetans would call the swoon.
		If you read the Tibetan book of the dead, they can use the word swoon, and they're not referring to somebody having a southern bell fainting it.
		They're also referring to this paralysis you're referring to, really is you feel immobile because what's happening is that the astral body is separating from the physical body.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, it's the beginning process.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		beginning process of the lift out as Monroe would call it, the late father Monroe, of course.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And this is the beginning of the It's not an Art Bell paralysis, Doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a widely experienced paralysis.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But it's not a give-not.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You can do this by just experiencing the normal, even relatively light level of hypnosis without having the paralysis effects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Understood.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		One of the characteristics and reasons for the paralysis that you're describing, and it's really, that's not a good term, really.
		I understand it's descriptive.
		It's really like when people enter into a medium level of hypnosis, very often they'll feel numbness, like their hand fell asleep or their foot fell asleep.
		Now that can be interpreted in a very deep level trance as being paralysis.
		In reality, of course, they can move.
		They just don't choose to move.
		Therefore, they don't move.
		And of course, if you ask them afterwards, they would say, well, I felt I was paralyzed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about the rushing sound or the big humming sound that people seem to hear?
unidentified		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's also correlated occasionally, although not as commonly, with the different colors and different lights people will perceive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And this is not a migraine headache.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, what this is, is changing planes and dimensions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Think of the end of the movie 2001.
		Those of your baby boomers out there might remember this.
		Selenium Cooper, 1969.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember it, yes.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The end of that movie, you saw these colors, just beautiful dynamics of cinematography flashing by you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And people thought they were on an LSD trip, is what my friends used to tell me about it.
		But what that really is, is symbolic of the idea of traveling from the earth plane to the astral plane to the causal plane, mental etheric, and all the way to the soul plane.
		In fact, even some of your listeners who may have read like the Ekenkar books or the movement of spiritual inner awareness, those other culti-type books, will describe that very accurately, the same experiences, as will the Easterners, the Indians, and the Chinese too.
		So it's really very much universally described as life and sounds.
		And of course, Ray Moody's core experience, he described a buzzing sound as one of his core experiences.
		And that's one that's been underrated.
		You don't hear about that as much as the white light in the tunnel and the other aspect of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that seems to come after that.
		In other words, there's what I call paralysis, this numbness, this rushing, this loud noise.
		I've actually come to that point, but I'm kind of a control freak.
		And when I get there, I don't feel at all in control.
		I feel almost nauseated, and I pull back immediately from it.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		This is the experience that a lot of people have with out-of-body experiences.
		I've met lots of people.
		A lot of my patients I've been to either the Monroe Institute or Tri-Tapes or been to many therapists.
		And the reason why, you're right, it is a control issue because it's fear of the unknown, if you will.
		People feel they're going over the line.
		They may think they're going to flatline or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they are going over the line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, they may not flatline, but it sure feels like something off.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's not going to lead to a near-death experience.
		It's going to lead to a full-blown out-of-body experience.
		But if you don't know that and don't have that bulky, mind-meld confidence about it, then what happens is people think they're going to go over the edge.
		Now, the other advantages, by the way, we'll continue with that, but the other advantages are you can contact angels or spirit guides in the conscious out-of-body experience state.
		You can eliminate the need to reincarnate, as we'll discuss later on.
		You can also guide your departed loved ones.
		This is a bereavement thing, too, now.
		Let's say you've lost someone.
		And by the way, it could also be pets.
		You have three cats, I have two dogs, and to me, they're the same as humans as far as their future is concerned.
		I know.
		And if you lose someone or have lost someone, you can then guide them into the white light so they can then reincarnate.
		And what's interesting, which you also don't hear much about, is that when a loved one goes into the white light, you know what happens immediately to the person on the earth plane?
		The bereavement stops.
		Isn't that interesting?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Bereavement and grief ends when the part of the soul enters the white light.
		You can do that with a conscious out of body experience very easily and very quickly.
		You can also recall your own past lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, the skeptics would say we are curing ourselves.
		We are, in effect, that our brain is going through an exercise that results in its own healing.
		That this is not something occurring truly externally, but that it is internal.
		What do you say about that?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you say internal, you may call yourself a control freak.
		I call myself an energy freak.
		So basically, for example, one of the other characteristics I was about to describe is called slowing down the aging process.
		And you can actually slow down the aging process.
		By the way, very good hard-nosed scientific research has shown this over the past 15 years by using either meditation or hypnosis, which are both alpha levels, to do that.
		And when you enter the conscious out-of-body experience, and people I've worked with many years ago with this, look about 10, 15 years younger than their chronology.
		These, of course, are people over 45.
		And people who see me think I'm like my son, you know, and I don't have a son.
		Because of the idea of building up the immune system.
		And the way you do this, if you want to use the word internal, what happens medically is that you actually build up the production of that hormone, DHEA, which is getting a lot of press of late and has been for several years.
		And that's produced by the adrenal cortex, actually the sexual hormone that was discovered back in the 50s.
		But now we know that it builds up the immune system and therefore slows down what we call the proverbial diseases of aging, everything from heart disease to arthritis to various allergy responses to cancer too, susceptibility to those and any of the immune system issues.
		And this is one of the other advantages.
		So between all those factors, including removing the fear of death, by the way, which is, of course, the bottom line of my therapy, between all that, I think that this is something that has, the time has come.
		The Easterns have always eliminated, or shall we say, limited the technique to their high elitist, if you will, people who live in temples and meditate 10 hours a day.
		What I'm doing, as I do with all my work, is taking it to the streets, so to speak, and bringing it so that the average person can do this and actually benefit by this and make this a part of the process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I want to come back to my question.
		And it concerned bereavement.
		You said that you could go through this process and the bereavement would end.
		And what I said is the skeptic would say that this is all an internalized process and the mind healing itself.
		And how do you know that it is indeed external?
		In other words, that you're actually going someplace?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's a good question.
		What I do is in a conscious out-of-body experience in my office in Los Angeles, where people can actually contact the soul of their departed loved one.
		For example, in my new book, Llewellyn Book, Soul Healing, which will be out next month, there's a very dynamic case of a gentleman who lost his daughter in a car accident when she was 18 years old, and he could not even work.
		This man is a self-employed businessman.
		He couldn't go to work for three weeks.
		He just was moping, depressed, almost suicidal.
		As it turns out, when he finally got to see me, he was able to contact the soul of his departed.
		Of course, she was now very traumatized.
		She'd only died about three months before, altogether, I believe, two or three months before.
		She was a very troubled spirit.
		He was able not only to calm her down and to proceed a future life with her where she would be his granddaughter in about 300 years, but also at the same time guide her into the white light and allow her to enter into the eventual soul plane.
		The moment she entered that white light, he stopped for weeping.
		This man was a very emotional man.
		There wasn't a day that went by.
		He used up more tissues in my office than most of my female patients.
		And the day that she entered that white light, he cried with joy, and then that ended the bereavement.
		And she actually communicated that back to him, which is one of the many, many hundreds and hundredths of examples.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, my question is, though, doctor, how do you know that she communicated that to him?
		How do you know that he did not communicate that to himself?
		That's my question.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, because in this particular case, this is interesting, she actually gave some precognitive or futuristic information about his life that came true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now that is interesting.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And that is to be expected because let's call her on the astral plane, which is most likely where she was.
		You know, there aren't any signposts up there, but most likely she was on the astral plane.
		And the astral plane, as you know, about near-death experience and out-of-body experience research, there is no time concept, as you know.
		There is the space-time continuum.
		And as you know, Ray Moody's work and Kenneth Ring and Michael Sabon and many others, and Melvin Morris, et cetera, have shown that they actually do lead into the future and perceive events like the Three Mile Island incident, the Mount St. Helens eruption were all perceived before they occurred, documented by people who had near-death experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there, Doctor.
		We're at the top of the hour and we'll be right back to you.
		Flatline, or the benefits of flatliners, that is dying or the near-death experience without actually going through the physical event itself.
		Very interesting.
		Precognition.
		Precognitive events as well.
		Also, very interesting.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		From the Kingdom of Nine, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am, conscious dying.
		I'm not sure I have the proper body parts for that.
		We'll talk more about it in a moment.
		Dr. Bruce Goldberg is my guest, and he'll be right back.
		Imagine if you can.
		Without the physical effects of dying.
		That's what we're talking about with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		And he's got a name for it.
		It's called conscious dying, implying, of course, that you consciously make a decision to do the same sort of thing that you do if you actually physically die.
		Once again, Bruce Goldberg.
		Doctor?
		Yes.
		Good.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I want you to know that I have nothing to do with Dr. Kavorkian in his technique.
		By the way, for the benefit of your listeners, they may have seen the first televised example of an actual age regression to a near-death experience if they saw the Richard Bay Show on September 12th.
		All right.
		I had the pleasure of taking a gentleman who died in December, end of December of last year, back into his actual experience.
		And I also do a column now for Fate magazine, which I sent you a copy of my initial one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me stop you again.
		On the show, you took him back.
		In other words, he had a physical, originally a physical near-death experience.
unidentified		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		He frankly died for about four minutes back in December, the end of December of 1985.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and you took him back, and he claims he had the same experience?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		He described the exact same, which is a very, very dynamic experience of being surrounded by four entities who looked like they were dressed in almost like a monk's garb, except it was like a brownish color in a cheese fluffy environment.
unidentified		Really?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And, oh, yeah, he was now perfectly safe, although if you looked at him, you saw a lot of emotions there.
		But he actually went back to that actual near-death experience.
		And after the show, of course, he commented on during the show, but he said, you know, Dante says, minus the fact that I didn't feel like I was about to die in 80 seconds.
		That was what I went through a year ago.
		So he was...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What exactly...
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		No, these would be the equivalent of like his guides, if you will, or his spirit guides and angels, if you will.
		That wasn't the higher self.
		The cheesecloth, if you will, was blocking out the very persistent white light, which when the cheesecloth finally he saw like an opening through it, almost like a break in the ozone layer, what he saw then, of course, was the blinding white light, which, of course, was his higher self.
		But these four entities were really his spirit guides, trying to guide him and trying to calm him down and trying to orient him.
		And they instructed him that he would be back.
		He would have to return to the body.
		And his only concern, and this was on the show, he says, I don't want to go to hell.
		That was his only concern.
		He thought that that's what his fate was.
		And they were trying to reassure him that that wasn't going to happen, of course.
		And then he went right back into the body with a blinding flash of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are spirit guides?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they beings who have lived previously or not?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, the answer is yes and no.
		But let me tell you what my experience has been.
		Spirit guides are confused with the term angels, and there's a theoretical or theosophical or, shall we say, a theological difference to what I find myself.
		These spirit guides are really people who you've probably known in past lives, and that's what most of my patients report.
		These are people who you know maybe four or five hundred years ago, maybe a thousand years ago, and they have perfected their souls, so now they can do one of two things.
		They can ascend into the higher planes or go to heaven or nirvana, whatever you want to call it, or they can stay around, what I call the Buddha technique, and be a guide.
		And they decide to simply help you.
		And the reason they're attracted to you is because they literally, you were karmic good buddies centuries ago.
		Not every time, but very commonly you are.
		So these are people who are just entities who are just trying to help you to do what they did, and that is to perfect your soul and to be able to then either ascend or remain a guide yourself.
		Now, people will use the word angels, especially when I work with children and adolescents, when they describe meaning spirit guides, they always use the word angels, if they're Westerners, of course.
		And so that's what spirit guides are.
		But they are perfect forms of energy that we eventually will be.
		The difference between what I'm saying and what the medieval church said way back a thousand years ago or so is that they feel that angels are on a different level, messengers of God that never were human, on a different convergent evolution, and never had a corporal or physical body.
		And see, I disagree with that.
		I feel the angels are really either the spirit guides I'm referring to, or some people may confuse their own higher self with an angelic spirit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're sort of saying there are not angels, as people think of them.
		In other words, an angel is a fallen, shall we say, a cabinet member of God, if you will.
		A cabinet member.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you know, Satan being one of the big ones, you know?
		But see, that's what the church is.
		And they kind of get that from, you know, they kind of stole that from the ancient Greeks.
		And we don't really have any documentation other than simply the proverbial, shall we say, the theological old wives' tale here.
		Whereas we have thousands of examples, in my practice alone, thousands of examples of people.
		No one's ever told me that they've met an angel that really was never in the human form.
		And my colleagues, Tenneth Ring and many others, will also confirm, at least their opinion shares with what we all share.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then, according to you, there must not be a Satan.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, as a matter of fact, oh, yeah, absolutely.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I feel Satan was going to be created by the Egyptians during the mystery scrolls to scare people into going to their initiate meetings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just a big myth, huh?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, yeah, and it's very logical.
		Just like, for example, I don't feel there's a hell.
		This is my personal opinion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously, without a Satan, there wouldn't be a hell.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, but you could, oh, there are people who do feel that you don't have to have a head honcho, that you could still have demonic entities hanging around a certain area that people would refer to as hell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I didn't say I believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that is what you're saying, correct?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		What I'm saying is that hell is the negativity that you have on the earth plane, that you create yourself, and as a result of your own karmic actions, and this and that.
		So that's what I'm referring to.
		At the same time, if there was a hell, so to speak, you see, then there would be a real problem with the soul plane and ascending.
		Because what about the people who go to hell?
		Does that mean they're off the ticket here?
		They're off the team, and they can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think so, yeah.
		That was always what I heard.
		They're off the ticket off.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's not what any of my patients have told me.
		That's not what any of the literature that I know of, other than the theological literature, which I won't count.
		There's none of the psychological or metaphysical or parapsychological literature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, wait a minute.
		Wait a minute.
		There are books that have been written by people who claim to document just in the same way that other people have documented good or positive near-death experiences that doctors say they've gone to hell.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Now, let me give you an example.
		The near-death experience, referring to Ray Moody's work, which of course is anecdotal, but Kenneth Ring is the one who really documented his work.
		Michael Sabaum is others as a cardiologist.
		He's also reasonably scientifically documented.
		95% of their reports across the board, and read any research article, will tell you that they're very positive.
		Now we deal with a gentleman by the name of Maurice Rawlings, a name you probably are familiar with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Rawlings, yes.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Rowlings is a good old Southern Baptist, and he does not make any claim to the opposite that he is prejudiced by his religious opinion.
		In his opinion, 95% of the people describe going to hell.
		Nobody confirms his work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Let's forget Dr. Rowlings.
		Hold on a second, and let's talk about, you said that of the people you cited, they say 95% are positive.
		Well, maybe 95% of the people, indeed, go on to the good place.
		But what about the 5%?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what we describe as the lower astral planes, not hell.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		See, the lower astral planes are sort of like what you'd call real bad purgatory, you know, where people are sort of like surrounded by people who are equally traumatized and maybe have not associated with death correctly, maybe weren't very spiritually evolved, and maybe just had a lot of heavy stuff, a very troubled spirit, if you will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, but if you die and find yourself keeping company with John Wayne Gacy, there's a message there.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's hell, because according to the theory of hell, you can never leave each other there for eternity.
		In this situation, the lower astral planes, you can then go to the regular astral plane.
		Eventually, your higher self will escort you, so to speak, to the soul plane, and then you can either reincarnate or eventually ascend and go to the higher plane.
		So there is sort of like probation and parole here rather than the permanent sentence of, you know, life without parole or eternity without parole, which is what hell signifies.
		It's just a matter of my experience as well as, as again, the majority of my colleagues in the literature itself.
		Nobody describes and says definitely that.
		There is, by the way, the hell, and that's it.
		You never get out of there.
		What they describe as some uncomfortable experiences that some of the near-death experiences report.
		And very often you have to separate that from the drugs they're given as well as the other parts of their environment that we don't really know of because we're not there when it happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're going to suggest that the bad experiences are a result of drugs or some other external influence, then you've got to imagine the same thing for the positive influence.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But that's not what I'm saying.
		What I'm saying is that, for example, if a person has, I'm talking about people who die of overdoses, clinically die of an overdose of heroin or a bad trick with LSD or PCP or some of the others.
		Those are a very small percentage of neode experiences.
		Most of the NDEs, just like this case of Richard, who was on the Richard Vay Show, his name was Rich Daniel, are heart attacks or people who die of, or clinically die of respiratory or other things.
		The only drugs they're given, if they're given them at all, are general anesthetics.
		And we all know from the literature, and I describe this very intimately in Soul Healing, that the drugs themselves could not recreate the actual panorama of experiences, especially the futuristic, the precognition, nor the new lease on life that near-death experiences report.
		You cannot get that from giving somebody sodium pentothal.
		It doesn't happen.
		Nor does the carbon dioxide buildup occur during the general anesthesia.
		What you get is oxygen, not carbon dioxide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has anybody done a study of people who have led, by our standards, bad lives?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Near-death experiences in that group?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've never read that.
		I mean, they don't classify.
		I've never seen a study where they say we only want to get a skewed sample of people who are really nasty people karmically.
		I mean, if anybody knows of one, please let me know because I've never seen one.
		The only ones you get are the people who are supposedly relatively isolated from the near-death experience by pre-knowledge or the cultural.
		They go by racial and cultural breakdowns, but I've never seen good karma versus bad karma, good guy, bad guy, the criteria for that.
		I've never seen that.
		But I'll say, I'll send a message out.
		I mean, I'm doing this New Column State Magazine.
		I'll put a little message in there about whether that's done.
		My people, they read the journals, but I may not.
		And if anybody's doing that, I'd like to know.
		That might be a university project, but I've never ever heard of it.
		So again, I would have to say that I don't have any experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if we want to discover whether or not there's a hell, that's a good way to find out.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It is, but it's not going to convince the skeptic because skeptics don't believe in near-death experiences being proof of death anyway.
		But let me give you a good example of how you can actually prove this.
		And I brought this up on the Richard Bay show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Here's an example.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		We have something, you know what flatlining means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Electrodephilograph is flat, which means you're dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Nobody's going to deny that.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		No scientist is going to deny that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, people say, oh, well, you know, Doctor, if you have a near-death experience, you're just fantasizing some magical white life tunnel, and you've just read Ray Mudis book.
		If you have a hallucination, if you will, or a fantasy, guess what?
		You can't have a flat line.
		You understand?
		The hallucination would spike the electrodemphograph.
		So we have documentation, and Michael Sabaum is one example of some of his research, where people have actually read the dials on the machine, if you will, during the emergency room, and they have read dials, which, of course, are timed and collated so that if there was a reading of 120 over 80 and it was 8.45 p.m., they could know that, and you could check that with the medical record.
		When they made those readings, they were flatlined.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask this.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		They couldn't have had a hallucination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Our brains are electrical things.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Electrochemical, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Electrochemical, but definitely electrical.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I put my head into a guillotine and they lop my head off and it falls into a basket, Do I instantly lose everything, or is there a period, seconds, a minute?
		I have no idea.
		When there's some activity going on and I'm sitting there in the basket going, man, I'm in a basket.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, again, by our definition, technically the chicken without the head, so to speak, your heart will beat for a few seconds or so, so you're not going to really die instantly by that definition.
		But the problem is most of our medical definitions today in the 20th century, we say no neural activity, no life.
		And you would not have neural activity if your head was in the basket.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Instantly.
		But, you see, but the heart.
		The neural activity would be.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But the heart is still meeting.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		See, so is it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but forget about the heart, because the head is not on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why I use this as an example.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, in that case, then, by your definition, by the definition of neural activity, you would definitely be flat-lined when the head was lopped off the moment that it was lopped off.
		But of course, if you maintain the connection with your higher self at that moment, you would consciously die, and then you wouldn't have to worry about coming back and doing another radio show.
		You'd be attending.
		But yeah, I'm not trying to really make fun of this, but the point of all this is the conscious dying is really a very dynamic technique.
		Your listeners out there would like to not only know what's on the other side and also fear of death, et cetera, but they would also like to help their loved ones.
		They would like to help their family themselves now.
		They would like to empower themselves.
		They would like to deal with the idea of growing spiritually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
		I agree with you, Doctor, and I too want to know how to do it.
		I said at the beginning of the half hour, I don't have the proper body parts to do it because I just refuse to let go.
		But let's say that somebody wants to do it.
		They want to let go.
		What is the process they use to do it?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Very simply, I developed a very simple self-hypnotic technique, which I call the conscious out-of-body experience, which is a marrying of two major techniques that I use.
		One is the super conscious mind tap, which is a way of accessing the higher self, and the other is a standard out-of-body experience.
		If you grasp the two together, two-thirds superconscious, one-third out of body experience, you get what I call the C-O-B-E, or conscious out-of-body experience.
		Now, let me just go over this system just for a moment, and then this will really give you a much better understanding.
		Normally, when you die, whether it's a near-death experience leading to death, which is the usual pattern, sometimes you don't necessarily have to have that, although I do feel you do, you die, and then because you haven't consciously died, which is 99.99% of the population, what you do is enter what we call unconscious dying.
		Near-death experiences are examples of unconscious dying.
		This is not what you want to do.
		What you do then is go to what we call the, you experience the disorienting forces of the karmic cycle, which is very, very confusing, to say the least.
		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I just one second stop you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Among that group of people, is that how we end up with what we call ghosts?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, ghosts are basically people in between lives, the bardo state, as the Tibetans would say.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But, of course, ghosts are simply people who have not entered the white light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've unconsciously died, and they don't really even know they're dead.
unidentified		That's correct.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		They're unconsciously died.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		They've unconsciously died, and they are sort of like staying at the party too long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And it's sort of like they don't know who's got the keys, you know?
		Basically, so let's go back to the system.
		So you die unconsciously, which is the uncomfortable way of doing it.
		You go to the disorienting forces of the karmic cycle.
		Now, all of your memories of your past life are going to be wiped as you do that.
		You're going to have a clean slate.
		You will go to the soul plane eventually with your higher self as your guide, as your, shall we say, holding your hand.
		And then you'll review the past life's information, et cetera, and choose your next life.
		When you unconsciously get reborn, you again go through the disorienting force of the karmic cycle and then get born into a body with no memories of past lives, which is why most people don't have any idea of who they were before unless they go to someone like me.
		All right, now, if you do the opposite now, if you maintain the connection with the higher self, the conscious out-of-body experience, you now skip the light fantastic and ignore totally all disorienting forces of the karmic cycle.
		You now immediately take the express train to the soul plane.
		You now most likely are going to perfect yourself, which means that you're going to have the right to ascend to the higher planes or to stay on and to guide and help others.
		If you have so much karma that you can't wipe it off, you will then go through the process of choosing a very highly spiritually empowered new life, being consciously reborn, therefore not going through the disorienting process of the karmic cycle, having memories now when you are born of your previous life, being very spiritually evolved, and being very psychic.
		And one good example to illustrate this, I actually have a documented case of this now.
		Here's a case of a woman.
		A woman named Edna came to my office in 1979.
		She was dying of cancer.
		She had about two or three months to live.
		She was depressed.
		She used to play the piano, but she has arthritis, so she couldn't do that.
		Her cancer was very painful.
		Her children had left her years ago, no husband, alone, depressed, everything.
		She contacts her higher self, and her higher self she calls Shamani as the name of her guide.
		And she goes through this process.
		Now she's no longer depressed.
		She's going to die shortly, but she said, doctor, I feel very good.
		I just want you to know that we will meet again.
		Now, most people, you know, very often people say that to me, but not when they have two months to live.
		So she dies two months later, two or three months later, I was told she died by her neighbor, who used to bring me to the sessions, and she died with a smile on her face.
unidentified		Okay.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, we go to 1988, nine years later.
		I get a call from the Midwest from a couple.
		They want me to work with their unusual daughter, as they described, and they think she's possessed by some evil spirit.
		They bring her to my office, and this young girl, her name is Paula.
		She's seven years old.
		She is talking about the fact that she says, you know, life is very difficult, and I don't like having cancer, and I don't have a family, and I don't like being abandoned.
		And I said, you're perfectly healthy, nice, please.
		She says, well, this is, I'm just telling you, but she likes to associate with her grandparents.
		She likes older people.
		She has a natural talent to play the piano, especially classical music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'll tell you what.
		We're going to have to break this.
		So sit tight.
		We'll be back after the bottom of the hour, and we will finish this story.
		Worth finishing, obviously.
		I'm Art Bellin.
		This is Dreamland.
		My guest is Dr. Bruce Goldberg, and I guess we're talking about the nature of death, really.
		Conscious dying, a way to do it and understand what it's all about before you actually have to do it.
		And this is one of those things like taxes that We're all eventually going to have to do, right?
		Don't forget there's a lot of new stuff on the website, www.artbell.com.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		The only number not given on there, and we're going to get the lines open shortly.
		Once again, now, back to Dr. Goldberg, and I want you to finish your story.
		I love proof.
		One of the main things we do on this program is trying to discern if there really is life after death.
		So right ahead.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, very, just to briefly summarize this woman, Edna, who was dying of cancer, slowly in 1979.
		She couldn't play the piano because of arthritis.
		She contacted her spirit guide, which is really most likely your higher self.
		She referred to it as Shimani.
		She died a few months later, and nine years later, 1988, I'm working with a young seven-year-old girl named Paula from the Midwest, who, of course, knew nothing about Edna.
		And she comes to me.
		Her parents think that she is possessed from evil spirits or whatever.
		She's saying these unusual things.
		She's talking about having cancer, which, of course, the young child is not.
		She's talking about how her family has left her.
		She also likes to be called by a name of Iffy, which of course does not represent her personality.
		But Edna wanted to be called Iffy because Edna was very indecisive.
		So when I see this, I pull out Edna's record as I'm working with her, and sure enough, the young Paula goes into her higher self, her conscious out-of-body experience, and tells me that I have, my angel says hello to you.
		And I said, who is your angel?
		She says, my angel is Shimani.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So Paula, apparently, was the reincarnation of Edna.
		Now, she consciously was reborn.
		At the same time, she was having, as a child, as an infant, she literally had these memories of her past life.
		She also was a model student.
		She had playmates.
		She did like to associate with older people like her grandparents, but she also had a lot of friends her age, and she was one spiritually evolved little soul.
		So, I mean, here's an example of conscious dying, conscious rebirth, and actually reincarnation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		How would a skeptic approach that?
		Is there any way for a skeptic to approach it?
		In other words, you've got a child with evidence that she couldn't possibly have an information about an adult who had died.
unidentified		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		There's no way.
		I mean, of course, a skeptic will always say, well, how do we know that this wasn't some confabulation?
		And I say, well, somebody's pretty patient waiting nine years.
		And by the way, none of these people did it with the expectation of me writing about it in my columns or this is going to be in a new book.
		They had no knowledge of doing that, nor did I at the time.
		So really, this is another suggestive evidence.
		Just like, for example, in the Search for Grace case, you know, that CBS movie that was made out of my last book.
		This is a case where this was documented on Network to an independent researcher there.
		This was a case that I received a couple of calls from some reporters who said, doctor, we're going to get you on this one.
		And I said, fine, do your research.
		I never heard from them again, which means that they confirmed the research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that's right, or you would have agreed.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I would believe you.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I would be on hard copy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd have been there.
		That's right.
		The target of a lot of stuff.
		Listen, let me ask you.
		You mentioned that they thought this young girl was possessed.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I interviewed and will interview again soon Father Malachi Martin.
		Father Martin does and has done for the Catholic Church for 30 years exorcisms.
		And it leads me to the question of possession.
		Is there such a thing as possession, in your opinion?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yes, as a matter of fact, there is.
		And let me just tell you why this wasn't.
		The reason why the parents, you have to understand, these were very Pentecostal type of people from the Midwest who were not very well educated and assumed that a child who's speaking with the vocabulary of an adult and talking about having cancer and having stamina is possessed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, in reality, what possession is, is there are demonic entities out there, and I will be the first to testify to those, and there are many others who will do it.
unidentified		This is different.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, this isn't the hell substantiation.
		What this is, there are entities out there that are not angels.
		They're not perfect entities.
		There are true demonic entities.
		I've only dealt with myself, what we call the minor ones.
		I've not dealt with the ones that cause people's head to spin, if you will.
		But there are minor demonic entities who have been around for a long time, real long time, and who try to literally possess humans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are they?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What are they?
		Well, again, this goes now, this is where you can call them, if you will.
		They fit into the proverbial fallen angel mentality.
		They weren't corporal people as far as I know.
		When I've communicated with them, of course, they lie all the time so you can't believe anything they say if you read the literature.
		But they apparently have knowledge going, they have tremendous knowledge.
		They can speak languages.
		They can write Latin.
		They can write ancient Greek.
		They can do all these things.
		So apparently they fit into some lower-level form of what people might refer to as an angelic or perfect entity, if you will.
		Perfect being that they came from a higher source.
		But again, their purpose is simply to, of course, their purpose is to take over the body and to take over the earth, which, of course, they're failing miserably in doing.
		But they are definitely very high-powered and very nasty entities who do not mean us well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then what is the difference between the lower levels you talk about and hell?
		I mean, effectively, what is the difference?
		If you have beings that are this demonic, this terrible.
		Right?
		Then we're playing with semantics here.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Not really, because this is why.
		The definition, this is my definition.
		Maybe we have a difference.
		Let me show what my semantics are, and maybe we can compare the two.
		Okay, pair of notes here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The lower astral planes are where the demonic entities, shall we say, that's their cheers bar.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's where they hang out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fine.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, souls, human souls, can also go there if they, like a Hitler would go there or a Saddam Hussein would go there, a really nasty person would go there.
		But then they eventually go up to the higher or the regular astral planes, if you will, the higher astral planes, as some refer to it.
		And then eventually they go to the soul plane and reincarnate.
		And they're not trapped there for eternity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, only after shoveling a lot of coal, though.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
		But the point is they don't have pointed ears.
		They don't have tails.
		And they're not trapped there for eternity.
		My definition of hell by the theological definition is that once you go in, it's like the roach motel.
		You don't go out.
		And these, you have, the door swings both ways here.
		See, so therefore, I don't call that hell.
		I call that the lower astral plane.
		And there are escape clauses, and you can sort of like get your card punched and leave the dimension and go on to one that is a lot more functional.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The traditional religious view is you go to hell, you're there for eternity.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		One-way ticket.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One-way ticket.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And so therefore, so if we have, I don't think you and I have a semantic defense.
		Maybe some of your listeners might, but again, you know, most people today think of when they look at their lives today, they look at all the negativity going on and diseases floating around.
		They say, hey, you know, hell can't be a lot worse than this.
		And I try to empower them to realize they can actually go far beyond that and create their own reality and consciously die and not have to worry about coming back to earth plane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what do you say to the preachers then who preach Hellfire and Brimstone and say there is a worse place than Earth, and if you don't do what you're supposed to do, you're headed there?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're not on my Christmas card list, and I'm not on theirs because I don't believe that you need an agent.
		I believe you can actually cut a TV movie deal, which I didn't get booked published without having an agent.
		I also believe you can perfect your soul without an agent.
		The theologians themselves, priests, rabbis, and ministers, God bless them for what most of them want to do.
		I have no problem with most of them.
		But I do have a problem with the theory.
		The theory is you need them codependency to get to heaven, and I have a problem with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, I do too.
		And I actually agree with you.
		You don't need an agent.
		It can be done within yourself, without question.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But understand, if you don't have the agent, then you don't have the bureaucracy cannot be supported by the proverbial tax-free donations, and there's a self-interest mentality here.
		And I think that I don't think people are that stupid where they just don't realize that.
		I think it's in my definition of spiritual evolvement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, that might be kind of an elitist position.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are a lot of people who need agents, who need the help, and I tend not to in any way criticize them or put them down or even suggest they're a lower level of evolutionary scale.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I'm not saying the level of evolution either.
		What I'm saying is that it's like, for example, my purpose in life is to make myself obsolete.
		I don't believe, although I do feel most people do need therapy, I really don't like that concept.
		I like the idea of people being trained to be empowered.
		And when it comes to other, people can believe in any religion they want to.
		You know, God bless them, and I'm a person activist, which includes religion as well as speech and press.
		And I feel that they can believe anything they want to.
		I'm a monotheist myself, but I'm a free agent, if you will.
		I don't take my formal association with any established religion per se.
		I just believe in what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's absolutely fine.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But he's also fine if you're a Jew, Christian, a Muslim, or a Shintoist or Buddhist.
		My point is that, but if you do that to the extent where you are going to be depressed by the negativism, for example, we have a good thing coming up.
		Let's talk about millennium issues.
		People think that next year, you know, the UFO type, some of them feel that next July is it for us and the UFO is going to take over.
		Some people feel that, of course, the KCs, the Bible, the Nostradamus, and your friend Gordon Michael talks about the Earth splitting up or the United States splitting up.
		And I'll tell you right now, it's going to be a St. Patrick's Day parade on the year 2000 and January 1st because that's not going to happen.
		And this is the kind of mentality where people, I feel, of course, living in Los Angeles, I have patients and people who come to me that literally have panic attacks, driving their car, just drive east.
		I don't blame them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't blame them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was just down in Los Angeles, and I can tell you I almost had a panic attack, and I wasn't even driving.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, remember the statement that I sent you last year, and I'll say it again.
		There will be no earthquake larger than the North Ridge earthquake, no 7.0 or larger Richters in Los Angeles or any Southern California area between now and the year 2050, as I reported.
		My patients told me in Past Lives, Future Lives, and we are not going to see California floating into the water.
		I will be a landlubber for the rest of my income.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, let's get this straight, all right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There will be no earthquakes larger than the Northridge earthquake.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll round it off and say 7.0, okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		7.0.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No earthquakes greater than 7.0 between now and when?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		2050.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		54 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		20.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		54 years.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		There will be no Armageddon.
		There will be no nuclear wars.
		There will be no economic collapse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
		Wait a minute.
		I want to bet here.
		Let's go to 2010 because the chances are good that Dr. Goldberg and Art Bell will be alive in 2010.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Why don't we make it 2012?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's when the Mayans feel the police.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		2012, you got it.
		2012.
		I'm willing to bet you $1,000 that there will be an earthquake greater than 7-0 in California or the western U.S. before.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		There are no laws against betting on the radio off that you're on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't really care.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You're on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		$1,000, 2012.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		As long as James Randy doesn't hold it, you're on.
		You're on.
		This is on the year, and this is live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the easiest thousand I ever made.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, again, you're going to have to do a lot of commercials for me to be free.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, look, I expect to make it long before 2012.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, if you're somehow alive in the year 2050, we can then add the multi-factorials on that.
unidentified		I'll be collecting before 2050.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No problem.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm happy with 2012.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's a bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		Good.
		And if I die, just try and collect.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Look, as a matter of fact, you can ask about questions.
		Let me tell you about a skeptical question.
		People say to me, you know, Doctor, how do I know that if I'm going to consciously die, this is going to work?
		And I said, look, if you come back to the earth plane when you consciously die, if you don't perfect yourself, you come to me in your next life, and all your fees will be refunded.
		It's a money-back guarantee.
		It's a lifetime money-back guarantee.
		It's a future life money-back guarantee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, look, I would like to take a few calls, so let's spread it around a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, thank you for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm actually calling from Bemidji, Minnesota, and from Stillwater originally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Well.
		And I want to thank you, Mr. Bell, for your shows.
		I'm really learning a lot, and I appreciate that you're putting those kind of shows on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I'd quickly like to get to a couple of...
unidentified		Pardon me?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		What's your first name?
unidentified		Sue?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Sue.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Sue, Sue.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		I had had a couple of spontaneous out-of-body experiences when I was fairly young and didn't know what they were until I started reading some literature about astral projection and out-of-body experiences.
		And when I tried to start practicing it to do it consciously, I had an experience one of the first times I tried it of there being this kind of flash of blue light in the room, and it felt like there was a hand in front of my face about an inch above my nose.
		And I heard this voice say, no.
		And I never tried it again.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, this hand that said no, did you feel any kind of a feeling of like impending doom or negativity or positivity or anything in between when you had that experience?
unidentified		It was like Someone was protecting me and saying, don't do this, it's dangerous.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's not my question.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		My question was, did you feel yourself uncomfortable as a result of that instruction or the presence of that blue light, if you will?
unidentified		Uncomfortable in the sense that I was afraid that I was doing something dangerous.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It's a very good question, Sue.
		I'm really glad you brought this up.
		If you are in the presence of a higher self, your higher self, which by the way, blue or white, you know, it doesn't really make a difference.
		Very often it's blue, yellow, gold, but it doesn't make a difference.
		You will never feel anything but absolutely immersed in a feeling of love and peace and harmony and you name it.
		If you are surrounded by an angel or spirit guide or whatever you want to call that, the equal effect will occur.
		If somebody, no spirit guide, no higher self will ever say, don't do this.
		If anything, they will encourage you to do that.
		So my guess is you had one of two things.
		Either you had a poltergeist, disoriented entity who was just not in a very good mood, or you may have even had possibly, although unlikely, a myodemonic entity.
		This was not a positive entity who was with you.
		Don't ever do that.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, ma'am, thank you very much.
		It was such a good question.
		Look, why would you say that it could not have been, in effect, a guardian angel, the guides, whatever you want to call it, whatever entity, saying, no, wait a minute, this is dangerous.
		You're not headed for a good place.
		Whoa.
		Protecting.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, because, first of all, the guides, the higher self or the angelic spirit, the spirit guide, would be surrounded by the white light that they represent.
		They would protect Sue, Sue's physical body as well as her astral body.
		And we all know that out-of-body experiences are not dangerous.
		So therefore, the only thing then, because we're getting, she's being fed false information, which would suggest a minor demonic entity.
		Or if some little poltergeist who decides that, you know, they think they're just going to make somebody's life a little miserable for the evening.
		There's no way any higher spirit would ever do that.
		It just goes against every rule in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Mr. The Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry.
		I got the wrong number.
		I thought it was Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Goldberg is my guest.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		I'll turn my radio off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, by all means.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I haven't taken over the universe yet, ma'am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell us where you're calling from, please.
unidentified		Fresno, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I am 68 years old now.
		When I was 29, I first started to leave my body.
		And nothing was ever written about it.
		And I'd tell my husband about it.
		And he'd say, keep your mouth shut.
		People think you're crazy.
		And then over the years, finally, things was written about it.
		And one time when my son-in-law was out at Lamore, he worked out there, he's in the Navy, he'd come in at night that morning.
		And I'd been out of my body that night.
		And I told him about the huge underground complex out there and the silos and missiles.
		He looked at me, turned around, walked away, never said a word.
		But I got confirmation of it about eight years ago.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You were doing remote viewing, and actually, in the old days, in those days, there was books written by Robert Crookall and several others, but they were pretty technical and pretty heavy.
		But you're right, most of the books weren't out until the 70s or so on out-of-body experiences.
		Did you do any purposeful traveling, ma'am?
		Did you purposely want to go somewhere?
unidentified		Yeah, one time I went out to see a nephew.
unidentified		I hadn't been able to.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		And were you able to get diarrhea from head to toe?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Did you?
unidentified		And I confirmed that the next day.
		Okay.
		And that same night, I went to the great white light, and they told me I couldn't come in.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		You couldn't come in meeting where now?
		Couldn't come into the white light itself?
unidentified		Evidently.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, which means I think what you were trying to say is that maybe you thought that you were going to cross over or die and they were telling you that you still have a life.
unidentified		No, when I had the out-of-body experiences, it didn't bother me at all.
unidentified		I'd see my body laying on the bed.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But I think what you're talking about here is maybe the idea that if you entered into that white light, that would escort you to the soul plane and you weren't ready yet.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You had many years to go.
unidentified		Well, I'll tell you one thing.
unidentified		I know what my next lifetime is going to be.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You asked me, this brings up.
		You did what we call a precognition or a progression.
		So you've got a sneak plea to you into your next life.
		Would you mind sharing that?
unidentified		I'm going to be on the moon and witness the first murder.
		I've told my 13 grandkids this.
		And I remember past lives.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		See, and I'm assuming this never happened before you had your out-of-body experience.
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Uh-uh.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		This is because when you had your out-of-body experience, what you were doing was actually raising your own quality of your soul's growth, and therefore you became a little bit more psychic.
		Have you been more psychic over the years now as far as like?
unidentified		Oh, I always was.
unidentified		I could tell my kids just what they'd already done.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, but didn't this more magnify itself after the first out-of-body experience when you were 29?
unidentified		Yeah.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		See?
		So this is an example of, this wasn't exactly conscious dying, but it's on the road to it, where you're developing your psychic development, your spiritual growth.
		And what does your husband think about all this?
unidentified		Oh, he's been dead for 12 years.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But up until then?
unidentified		He didn't, after he'd seen his father, had been, his father had been dead for five years.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		His father come to visit him one morning after I'd gone to work and talked to him.
unidentified		My husband's seen his father.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So did that lighten up his attitude towards him?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
		He never made fun of me again.
		Okay.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You see, this is all karmic we've chosen.
		This is what I'm saying.
		All this became, there's a lot of spiritual growth that was going on in your family, you and your husband, especially, as a result of visitations in your husband's case, in your case, into a regular spontaneous out-of-body experience.
		That's a very, very good question and an interesting story, and I appreciate your time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very remarkable.
		Yes, indeed.
		All right.
		We don't have a lot of time before the drop of the hour.
unidentified		Your book, Doctor.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You talk about the new one, Soul Healing, now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I'm still talking about the Search for Grace.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Soul Healing is not out yet, is it?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right, it'll be out next month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we ought to talk about one that people could get.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, there's also Pass-Life Futurize, but all right, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And the Search for Grace.
		Available how?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Pass Life Futuralize is a Valentine book, which they can get in any bookstore, or they can call my 1-800 Karma4U number, or 1-800-527-6248.
		The Search for Grace right now is only available through my office next year.
		Llewellyn's the new publisher of Soul Healing World.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but it's 1-800-Karma for you for what's out there right now.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, wonderful.
		Stay right there.
		We'll be right back to you, Doctor.
		My guest is Dr. Bruce Goldberg, and you're listening to Dreamland.
		Fascinating topic.
		Near death now, we could call it.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		We'll be right back.
		Good evening, everybody.
		This is Dreamland.
		Dr. Bruce Goldberg is my guest.
		And one more time, if you have not yet done so, by all means, go up to my website to Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Oh, by the way, if I did not give it to you, my website addressed.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're back on the air again.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I wanted to just tell your listeners, I'll be giving, a week from tonight, I'll be giving a talk on conscious dying in Los Angeles.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And at the end of the year, December 29th and 30th, I'll be at the ARE in Virginia Beach doing an experiential workshop on conscious dying, past life regression, and future life progression.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're going to be in L.A. Where?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I'll be at the Beth Jacob Congregation in Beverly Hills, 9030 West Olympic Boulevard, for those people out there.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And this will be a week from tonight doing a talk on conscious dying at the Temple there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm sure there's a lot of people who are going to hop over and take a listen.
		Back to the lines.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		My name is David.
unidentified		I'm from Wilmington, North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, David.
unidentified		And my question is more in reference to conscious dying as it relates maybe to astral projection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Okay, because I've been trying this for years.
		All right.
		Unsuccessfully.
		And I'm also curious if it's dangerous in any way, if it's successful.
		And what are exactly mechanics possibly to succeed in doing this?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, you're trying the astral projection, which is the old term for what we call today simply remote viewing or out-of-body experiences.
		The best way, the most efficient way I know for anyone, regardless of your background, is really self-hypnosis.
		The reason being is because it's a very controlling technique that you can control.
		It's perfectly safe.
		And if you're not really sure of what you're doing with hypnosis, I have a whole series of tapes of out-of-body experience tapes and conscious out-of-body experiences, a special tape, which all you have to do is put on some headphones, a cassette player, push a button, relax, chill out, and allow yourself to guide yourself into this level.
		Understand one thing, David, and this is very important.
		Out-of-body experiences are by far one of the most complicated techniques with hypnosis.
		If you just wanted to relax your body, that's easy.
		But out-of-body experiences require you to pretty much remove as much physical distraction, as much psychological, emotional, and even spiritual distraction from your awareness.
		So I would suggest a room or someplace in your home or apartment or wherever you are that's as quiet as possible.
		Some people like to do this in their spa, you know, nice and comfortable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Yesterday, if there was any danger.
unidentified		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, if there's no danger, there really is none.
		Nothing in the world can possibly happen to harm you.
		Even if there were some demonic entity around or some negative culture geist, some negative bad taraday spirit floating around, at least the tapes that I use, I have a white light protection on that.
		White light protection, as funny as it sounds, will protect you from anything and anyone.
		So there's no possibility of danger.
		The only question is, how fast and quickly can you leave your body, literally lift out and leave the body and go through whatever experience you want to do.
		And that includes, by the way, as the woman who called in earlier from Fresno, you can actually direct the travel of your soul to a location and a person you may want to visit.
		That takes a little bit more experience, but you can do that, and it's perfectly safe.
unidentified		Can you freak out and lose your way?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		No, you can't.
		This is not like Houdini under the ice in Detroit, you know, 1906.
		It doesn't happen that way.
		The worst that can happen, remember, your higher self is always with you, so you're going to have a presence there that's going to get you back on the track if you think you're just wandering around.
		And the worst scenario is you'll just come back into the body.
		That's all.
		You'll just flip right back and you travel at the speed of light anyway, so it won't take very long.
		And you just wake up or maybe fall asleep if it's late at night, and you'll just do your thing.
		Remember, every night that you dream, which is three hours a night, those are out-of-body experiences.
		And you do tend to wake up in the morning, right?
unidentified		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So you haven't no harm.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		No harm, no foul.
unidentified		So you can't speak to other people out there and stuff?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's telepathy, though.
		Don't expect to have baritones here, you know?
		The three tenors don't work there.
		It's all telepathy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I have a question.
		Doctor, I have a question.
		And it is, no offense, but you say there is never danger.
		And I presume one of the ways you conclude that is, as you point out, you go to sleep at night, you wake up in the morning.
		Right.
		I would say, what about all the people that die in their sleep?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, obviously, they die in their sleep not because of the trauma of the out-of-body experience.
		They die in their sleep because their heart gives in or because of some medical or biological reason of aging.
		That's just part of life.
		What I'm saying is that their soul is what I'm referring to, not the physical body.
		See, let's explain the idea of dying in your sleep.
		It's a good point.
		When you awake during the day, we are what we call the beta brainwave level, the normal conscious awareness, the analytical willpower, whatever you want to call this.
		The alpha level hypnosis or meditation is considered a very relaxed state.
		And if you really want to chill out, do some alpha.
		Now, when you go to sleep at night, your only choices are unconsciousness or the REM cycle at night, which is an alpha level too, which is hypnosis.
		The problem is, there, the REM cycle or the alpha level at night in the dreams is traumatic compared to the unconscious mind because of what you're comparing it to.
		So if you're going to die in your sleep, and most people do, by the way, die in their sleep, that's equivalent to stress, whereas during the waking day, it's equivalent to relaxation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my point was, though, a lot of people have passed on in their sleep, sometimes for relatively undetectable cause, and we never get to talk to them again, so they never get to say, you know what?
		I was having an out-of-body experience, right?
		And along came this horrible thing, and I detached from my body, and I went to this place, and I wasn't going to die, but I was traveling out-of-body, and somebody snapped my ethereal cord, and away I went like a balloon side loose.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But I have spoken to thousands of them through super conscious mind tests and conscious out-of-body experiences, and so have my patients.
		And no one has ever described that.
		Even in crib death, I had a woman whose baby died of crib death, which you know what that is, unknown cause, the baby just dies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And she spoke to the soul of her three-day-old baby, and the baby described from the perspective, telepathically, of course, that what happened was that it was a poor choice.
		It was a poor karmic choice, and it decided to leave and go back to the soul plane to reincarnate.
		And it was sorry that it caused her any kind of bereavement and discomfort emotionally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Hi, I'm from Washington.
unidentified		My name is Maria.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Maria.
unidentified		I had been a very bad accident in December moving from New Jersey to Washington, and I lost both my parents in the accident.
		Oh, how you did.
		I remember nothing of the accident, not even in dreams, nothing at all.
		I consulted with a psychic who was pretty reputable.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You were in the car when they died to you?
unidentified		Yes, I was the driver, actually.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You were the driver?
unidentified		I'm sorry.
		Yes, I was the, because what had happened is my husband was in the vehicle ahead of me, and he saw the whole thing happen.
		He said my car veered off the road and tumbled the buside.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You then repressed or just blocked out the whole experience?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're saying?
unidentified		I guess.
unidentified		I don't remember anything.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Now, have you gone through a lot of bereavement as a result of losing your parents?
unidentified		Yeah, I have, but most of the time I'm at peace with it, finally, with their loss.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I hope you don't feel guilty as a result of this.
unidentified		Well, I did initially, but now I don't anymore.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Was there a time when the bereavement issues or the grief, if you will, was there a time when it just simply let up and stopped?
unidentified		Yeah, they have.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I mean, was that like several months ago?
unidentified		No, I would say about a month ago.
unidentified		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		When that happened, this is what I was discussing earlier.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you heard the beginning of the show.
unidentified		No, no, I did.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		When your bereavement or grief really basically, for the most part, stopped, the souls of your parents enter the white light.
		And they will now be going on to what we call the soul plane to reincarnate.
		If you're concerned about them being a troubled spirit because they died, let's say, reasonably traumatically in a car accident, their souls are now at peace now.
unidentified		That's why I'm comfortable with that.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Pardon me?
unidentified		I'm comfortable with that too, but I know they're at peace.
unidentified		But the thing is, is that why don't I remember anything of the accident?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, now you're describing an emotional block because there's still a part of you that would say, you know, I don't want to relive this because if you remember the accident in detail, almost like when people have a car accident, everything goes in slow motion, you know, the kind of thing.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		If you were to do that in stop frame, if you will, think of a video cassette player here, then you would be experiencing something and reliving something that you might, part of you might think would bring back either the guilt or the bereavement issues.
unidentified		I see.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Or just review something that you just don't find particularly pleasant.
unidentified		I mean, they thought I must have fallen asleep at the wheel.
unidentified		That was the job.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And of course, a hypnotic regression could actually elicit exactly what happened if you could review that.
unidentified		Yes, I would.
unidentified		For some reason, I want to know what happened.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, are you in Seattle, you say?
unidentified		Yes, well, about an hour away from Seattle.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Because I will be up there next May.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And if you're going to be able to do that, I'll let you know what I'm going to be doing.
unidentified		Oh, excellent, yeah.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So I'll be doing age regression in past life there, too.
		But this is something that, again, I believe in always going back and reviewing things because repression usually causes psychosomatic issues.
		The nice thing about your situation is that you don't seem to be experiencing that now.
		So obviously you've gone through a lot of your own spiritual growth in the interim.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, Shinga and back to you then when you get to see out of the doctor, I have a question for you.
		It is true, and I have experienced it myself, in a major crisis, when you're about to die or something is, you know, you're really in crisis.
		Time slows to a crawl.
		What is it?
		What function accomplishes that for us?
		I've always wondered about that.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, what that is, is actually an out-of-body experience.
		You are now dissociating, as we would say, psychiatrically, and what you're actually doing is entering into the alpha level.
		This is why people like who jog and run as hypnosis, they jog for 10 miles and then they don't realize what's happened or you're on the freeway.
		This is a more extreme example where you don't, in order to take the stress of the incident, especially since very often it involves physical pain like a car accident can or emotional pain, the woman's case of losing her parent.
		So in order to deal with that, the only way to deal with that without stressing yourself into a potential heart attack or myocardial infraction, as we call it, is to just slow things down.
		Now you're entering the space-time continuum where there is no time as we know it.
		And that's the only way you can deal with it as an adaptation and adjustment to the emotional stress behind that.
		It's called the dissociated state.
		It's very common.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, got you.
		Back to the lines we go.
		First time caller line, your turn with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Ari.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you, sir?
unidentified		This is Randy, and I live in St. Louis.
unidentified		All right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Randy.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Dr. Goldberg.
		I'm one of those people that try and try to have an out-of-body experience and never been able to.
		But when I go to bed, quite often, real often, I have that sleep paralysis.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're describing now, this is now what's going on here, but the problem, I'm sure that one of your goals, Randy, is that you'd like to do this during the day and not just before going to bed.
unidentified		Right, because it's scary.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Right, and you might also want to lighten up the numbing of the arms and legs and what you're calling the paralysis, right?
unidentified		Right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you can do that.
		Let me show you a much better way of doing that.
		If you just do, like, let's say you play an out-of-body experience paper, doesn't mean there's a million of them on the market.
		That's not really going to solve your problem.
		What I would suggest and what I do with my patients is I teach them to do the super conscious mind tap technique first.
		This is accessing your higher self.
		And remember, I told you earlier, if you listened to the early part of the show, the conscious out-of-body experience is a melding of the superconscious mind tap with the out-of-body experience.
		That eliminates pretty much the paralysis, unless you're a subnamble patient, which is very rare.
		So now what you can do is access the higher self, which will get you out of the body smoother and faster, eliminate most, if not all, of what you would consider to be discomforting side effects like the numbing or you would call paralysis.
unidentified		That's what I think that maybe there is something, I don't know, evil or wrong about it.
unidentified		Because one time I was paralyzed and it was darkness to start coming in.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, see, now, when you do this yourself, and if you're not protecting yourself with a white light, that's a problem.
		I always recommend always, and all my tapes, have white light protection.
		If you use, for example, the superconscious mind tap and then follow with the out-of-body experience, both of them have white light protection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you said a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That implies danger.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't.
		Even if a person, for example, remember, his higher self is always with him.
		If, for example, there was a negative entity, let's call it a demonic.
		A demonic entity is equivalent to us.
		It would be like a guy going in with a tank to a country that lives in bamboo huts.
		A demonic entity could wipe you up and have you for breakfast in a New York minute, okay?
		The reason why it doesn't is because your higher self is always there with its white light brilliance protecting you.
		That's why I say it's never dangerous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		The only question is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it's a good time for me to ask this from George in Winnipeg, Canada.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, why do some religions, Christian, Islamic, consider the OBE to be evil, whereas some religions, Buddhism, many Asian, African, and Central American religions, aspire to the OBE state?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would appreciate your opinion.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Because the Christian religion basically all came from the mystery schools, and they didn't forget their forefathers.
		And in the mystery schools, as well as negative uses of shamanism, there were some nasty uses of the out-of-body experience technique, not so much the out-of-body experience, but the conjuring up Of black magic techniques, and they incorrectly associate all metaphysics with conjuring up evil spirits and conjuring black magic mentalities.
		And that's really the proverbial old wives' tale that they never really shook, just like the idea that priests are supposed to be celibate when the New Testament never said that.
		You know, I mean, it's just simply an add-on that was done to keep the masses in line.
		The Eastern people didn't have that problem because they believe in reincarnation and karma, and they don't have a problem with the theoretical paradigms, although they came from mystery school too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that's a good answer.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		KBEG, yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, I got a question.
		Well, I got a call back for the doctor.
		Sure.
		Actually, I had an OBE.
		It took place at night, and I saw a flashing white light after the incident, which was as scary as you've described it, Art.
		And it was very scary, and it lit up my whole room like a strobe light.
		And I felt an electronic buzz through my body that didn't shock me, but felt very scary.
		And it moved through my body as if somebody was pouring syrup, you know, on me, in a large amount.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So this is like an electrical response to yourself.
unidentified		Yeah, electronic of some kind.
		Now, I wanted to know, based on this alone, the fact that when that happened, I had observed some raccoons on my roof prior.
		The raccoons also stopped their activities completely.
		They were completely silent on my roof, inside of my window.
		As soon as I started feeling all this, and my room lit up with a testrobe light.
		Now, I don't attribute that to any anthropomorphic, you know, no, with all due respect, the way you're describing it, it felt like I was under some kind of control.
		And afterwards, I got up, ran to the windows, and the raccoons also were released, and they ran off the roof.
		That's how scared they were.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You know, the first thing that comes to my mind, and that is that, did you check to see where there was any UFO sightings that night?
unidentified		I didn't, sir.
unidentified		But again, the OBEs seem to pass into that direction occasionally, about 35%.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I think most, you're describing something, again, that would be one thing I would like to eliminate to make sure there wasn't any either electronic disturbance or even a UFO sighting.
		But let's say there wasn't.
		Let's say this was all your own experience of an OBE.
		I think most of your discomfort that you're describing was really due to the lack of knowledge of what that was, the fear of the unknown, not so much that some entity was trying to pull your body apart or to do some psychic dismemberment, which people sometimes think out-of-body experiences are.
		They're not.
		I think it's just simply a matter of like a little child will be afraid of the dark if he sees a monster movie.
		You see the fear of the unknown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk a little bit about UFOs.
		You mentioned them.
		Earlier in the program, you seemed to scoff a little bit at them, and now you mentioned them as if, well, maybe that's an explanation.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		We've gone past interviews, if you've got the impression that I scoff at UFOs, do not.
		I have done 75 UFO abductions as far as the regressions are concerned, and I am on the list of I believe in UFOs, and you can put that in your Guinness Book of Records.
		Oh, absolutely.
		What I'm saying is that what I said was that the UFO ISIS I was referring to was, I went to a UFO West Convention a couple of years ago, and they were talking about July of 1997 is when we're taken over by whatever.
		And I just have a problem with that.
		That's what I was referring to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned remote viewing as well.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, remote viewing, of course, is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it real?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Remote viewing is an out-of-body experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is an out-of-body experience, and it is real.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's been documented by SLI, Stafford Research Institute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then I wonder what you would say about Dr. Courtney Brown, a fairly well-known remote viewer, who just released on his website, available through ours, a big announcement that the president, very shortly, is going to go public and admit that UFOs are real, are known about, and very soon.
		I mean, within weeks or months, shortly.
		And I'll let you chew that one over while we take a break here.
		I just thought I'd mention that because you thought nothing spectacular is coming very soon.
		Or maybe I misinterpreted that.
		We'll find out right after the break.
		By the way, Dr. Courtney Brown on my program, end of the week.
unidentified		The End Thoughting any kind of harm.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Going back to the conscious out-of-body experience, where, of course, you're totally protected by an intense bright white light anyway, as part of the technique.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So far, Doctor, now, wait a minute, Al.
		We've got millions of listeners, and at any given moment, only a few of them can get through.
		All right.
		So, to be fair here, if there's anybody out there with a negative OBE, I would like to know about it.
unidentified		Be sure to talk to me.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Or send your mouse to the profession.
		But what I'm saying is that when you see this, you'll see people who, of course, will respond to fear of the unknown, but no one's going to really report.
		And I'll be happy.
		Listen, I'm willing to, believe me, I'm more than willing to talk to them.
		But unless you're getting some demonic entity, which is possible, very, very rare and unlikely, when you talk to people who are the priests who do exorcisms, when you ask them about the percentage of people they have to do that too, it's really the proverbial drop in the bucket, the pebble on Santa Monica Beach, as we say.
		So basically, these out-of-body experiences are safe.
		The only reason I recommend white lights and using more conscious out-of-body experience techniques is because they're far more controllable.
		You don't have the physical discomforts of the paralysis or the numbness.
		You can maintain it.
		You can be a lot more efficient in what you want to do with it, as well as obviously prepare yourself so that you don't have to reincarnate and ascend spiritually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that you should devise a name that is more attractive than conscious dying?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a name that people can relate to, and I understand the idea of public relations, and my philosophy, you know me well enough, Art, you know that I'm a straight shooter.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I believe in calling it like it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is what it is.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		It is what it is.
		You are consciously doing something.
		You are dying.
		The difference between conscious dying is I separate it from unconscious dying, which is what a near-death experience.
		I think near-death experience is one of the most politically incorrect terms you'll ever find to describe an experience, you know?
		I mean, it is true, you almost die, and you do die for a moment or two, but near-death sounds like, you know, you're on the borderline and you may not come back.
		But to me, I just call it, to me, if some publicist convinces me in the years from now, I'll consider it.
		But right now, conscious dying is the label.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good enough.
		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Where are you calling from, please?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Utican.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, I had a negative experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aha!
unidentified		Go ahead.
unidentified		I was only able to get out halfway before I...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm a harder and I got a demonic experience.
		All right, wait a minute.
		Wait a minute.
		Hold it, call her.
		He's stopping you.
		What is your definition of a negative experience, he says?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, it just didn't seem right.
		Well, that doesn't to me sound like negative.
		You said that you alluded to a demonic entity.
		Could you explain that then?
		Well, I felt a presence.
unidentified		It felt evil.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I didn't see it.
		I just felt it.
		Now, see, here's the problem.
		If you really had a demonic entity there, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.
		I think this demonic entity would have done a real number on you.
		However, if you had an experience there of an entity that was maybe trying to communicate, but you were half in and half out, you might not be in a very receptive position and would be more concerned about the experience you were having, half in and half out, plus the presence of an entity that obviously wasn't earthbound.
		And I think that would fit into the category of bizarre rather than traumatic, you know what I'm saying?
		Does that make sense here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		So, I mean, it's a nice try, but I don't think there's a cigar here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		Good try, sir.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But the half and a half out is good because you can actually learn how to go all the way with this.
		When you're half and a half out, you really, the white light also helps, it's like lubricating something, you know?
		The white light helps you to flip out instantly and to flip back in instantly and not be in this, you know, come see, come so situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The white light old lubrication.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
		West to the Rockies.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
		Hello.
		Hello?
		Hello?
		Mark?
		Yes.
unidentified		Mr. Fritzer and Howell Courtney, I'd like to find out what happens if you're blind.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Oh, very good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, that is a good question.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You're blind.
		Let me show you the evidence of near-death experiences.
		Ray Moody reports a case in one of his books about a woman who was blind for 50 years.
		She not only described the mechanics of the operation of the ORA in which she died clinically, but she described the colors of the instrument on the table in order, and she had been blind for 50 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that is impressive.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And that's Ray Moody's work, and we all know her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we sure do.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		And Ray's also a good dear personal friend, and he speaks the truth with no forked tongue.
unidentified		How?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		My point here is that when you're leaving the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it.
		I've got a question.
		How do you describe a color?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, the woman was not born blind.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		She was blind when she was about eight or nine, ten years old, so she knew who colors were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good answer.
unidentified		Okay?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's also true.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's Ray's case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		But let's talk about the Helen Keller syndrome here, okay?
		All right.
		When the soul leaves the body, it will now retain all the senses, if you will, that you had on the Earth plane, whether or not it had it or not.
		It will be able to see, hear, feel, taste, touch, smell everything, even if those senses were destroyed by somebody getting their head blown up in a bomb explosion.
		The soul's the astral body will experience everything, including the bouquet of the wine on the table.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
		Easter of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Dr. Bruce Goldberg.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		It's been discovered that if an electrode is placed above and behind the right ear on that part of the skull, that the electrode causes an elephant body experience into the spirit world.
		So, guest, are you in favor of arranging to have hospitals to make this a common practice?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what you're referring to.
		That technique you're referring to is really, if you're referring to certain beats placed in the brain, a certain electrical stimulation, it doesn't have to be the right lobe.
		It could be anywhere.
		But I would not, I don't believe in artificiality to stimulate out-of-body experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, color, color.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Color, where are you?
unidentified		Boston, Massachusetts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boston, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So is that true, Doctor?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard of that one particular part of the brain.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		You can bring an out-of-body experience by stimulating any part of the cerebral cortex with electricity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course you can.
		But the problem is that Wilder Penfield did that years ago in Canada.
		But the point here is that the reason why I don't like that is because A, it's artificial, and B, you can also bring upon seizure disorders.
		There's a lot of problems you can have medically that you don't need to do by just simply playing a tape or just by doing a meditation, which is no danger whatsoever to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, but why can you do that with electrical stimulation?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Because the synapses are electrochemical, if you will, and the soul is electromagnetic radiation equivalent to a television or radio signal.
		So electricity being part of electromagnetic, if you will, what you're doing is simply sort of like static electricity.
		You're simply, if you do enough shops and you had enough time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Said, Father, said nitroglycerin for the soul, how would you respond to that?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, he's referring to what I alluded to earlier about the mystery school mentality and about things that are metaphysical must be evil.
		Or if people, if the average person, just like I'm doing with conscious dying, if the average person doesn't need the agent, namely the minister, priest, the rabbi, then what do you need the church for?
		And that goes against self-interest, and that means you must make it evil so people don't do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dr. Goldberg, we are at the end of a program.
		Again, they just go like that.
		The books that you have out now that are available now are available by calling 1-800-KARMA4U.
		Is that correct?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		That's 1-800-527-6248.
		It's Past Life, Teacher Lives, Valentine Book, and the Search for Grace.
		I'll also be in Virginia Beach at December 29th and 30th for the ARE Conscious Dying and Past Life Regression Workshop.
		And I'll be in Beverly Hills at the Beth Jacobs Congregation on the Olympic Boulevard in Beverly Hills, Los Angeles, a week from tonight on the 17th of November.
		And again, by the way, your listeners will call me there.
		I'll be happy to send them a free little hypnotic exercise about how they can enter into their own trance without the paralysis that we discussed and information how they can do their own conscious sign too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and that also is available, same number?
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Same number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, 1-800 karma for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, thank you.
bruce goldberg ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Now, look, we've got a lot of good stuff, folks, on the web.
		You don't want to miss it.
		It's up there now.
		A new ghost photograph, a photograph of the demon seeds, a photograph of a new incredible UFO photograph, and all three of my cats.
		And all of these photographs, also available, by the way, at the same place you can buy tapes of my programs.
		That's 1-800-917-4278.
		You can get the newsletter, 1-800-917-4278.

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