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June 6, 1996 - Art Bell

02:54:41

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Prof. Gerald Uelman - OJ Simpson Investigation

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01:25:31

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george noory

01:58

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02:16

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bells Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good morning, good evening, dependent on your time zone across all these many.
		From the Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chains, eastward all the way over all the bots, flyover country, to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south, into South America, north, to the pole worldwide.
		On the internet, this is post-to-post a.m.
		Oh, good morning, everybody.
		USA Radio Network just reported milk and cookies are more harmful, more likely to give you cancer than second-hand smoke.
		No melted cookies in all households obviously have got to go.
unidentified		Incredible melted cookies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Had a few earlier today.
		Alright.
		As promised, coming up here shortly, Professor Gerald Uhlman, who was OJ Simpson's attorney, one of them, and lessons his book, Lessons from the Trial, which I happen to think is a wonderful title.
		And we'll get to all of that shortly.
unidentified		Screams It...
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		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you this.
		What is going on to necessitate this so quickly?
		There seems to be a deadline in their brains, and they need to get this done.
unidentified		They know their whole New World Order is inches from going up in flames.
		So they're afraid of the awakening and they know that their collapse is about to take place because we've been asleep at the switch and we've let incredibly corrupt interests take control of our society.
		Now we take you back to the night of June 6th, 1996, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was the trial of the century.
		Law professor Gerald Ullman, Professor Ullman, was preparing for sabbatical back on the 16th of June, about a day before my birthday in 1994, and three days after the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman.
		He got a call from Robert Shapiro and said, how about it?
		And I guess he said, okay.
		Professor Ullman was at the epicenter of the trial of the century.
		His position on Simpson's legal dream team, unique.
		Not only an advocate for his client, but also a teacher and a scholar.
		And he is with us this morning or this evening, depending on your time zone.
		Here he is from Central California.
		Professor, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
unidentified		It's good to be with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's great to have you here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're at the end of a long, grinding book tour, I guess, eh?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Today was the last day of the tour, so it's great to be home and kind of settle in to relax a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How's your hand?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I assume you signed a lot of books.
unidentified		I did.
unidentified		We had a wonderful turnout for the book signings and met a lot of people who had a lot of questions about the trial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		The book title, I think, is wonderful, Lessons from the Trial, and it begs the first question, obviously.
		What really are the lessons for the legal system, for society?
		What are the lessons?
unidentified		Well, I think there are some lessons for all of us.
		I'm realizing, as I travel around the country, the extent to which we all saw a different trial.
		I'm even realizing that as I read the books written by the other lawyers and occasionally have to ask myself, were they at the same trial I was at?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, a better question is, were we all?
		In other words, I presume that you've reviewed the television coverage, and I'll tell you up front, I was a junkie.
		I was there every single day.
		I rearranged my sleep patterns to see that trial.
		And I wonder if what we saw on television was even a close, accurate representation of what went on.
unidentified		Well, it was close enough to create the impression that we were seeing everything the jury saw.
		And I think that's one reason so many people are ready to say, well, I saw the same thing the jury saw, and I came to a different conclusion and reject the verdict of the jury.
		But it was an illusion.
		You really did not see the trial that the jury saw, believe me.
		I can offer just one example of that.
		We were all really struck by how the jury was impressed by the view they made of the premises, which was not, of course, televised.
		How when the jurors walked into O.J.'s house and saw that the stairway leading up to the second floor and back to his bedroom was covered with white carpet, and you could just see them almost thinking, well, how could somebody drenched in blood make their way from this door up to that bedroom without leaving a drop of blood on the carpet?
		And lots of little things like that nuances that you just can't pick up from watching the case on television.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you surprised at all at the verdict, the speed of the verdict, and then the verdict itself?
unidentified		Well, I certainly anticipated a longer wait for the verdict, but it was because I thought the jury would be more divided than it actually was.
		You know, the criticism of the jury for reaching a verdict so fast really misapprehends the purpose of jury deliberation.
		The jurors don't go into the jury room as 12 empty vessels waiting to be filled as they shuffle through the exhibits.
		They've been thinking about this all along.
		They sat through 10 days of argument and instructions.
		And ordinarily, the first thing a jury does when they go into the jury room is take a vote and see how far apart they are.
		And the deliberations are for jurors to persuade each other.
		But this jury quickly discovered they were not far apart at all, and it wouldn't take a lot of persuading to achieve unanimity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you answer the charges that some jurors were intentionally targeted and eliminated, the famous letter and so forth, that resulted in Judge Ito dismissing a juror who might have held out for conviction?
unidentified		Well, we were actually concerned from the opposite standpoint, that we were losing jurors who we thought would favor acquittal.
		And the question of whether jurors were targeted is a question that was raised by the defense, actually, in the midst of the trial.
		The one juror whose dismissal has been questioned after the trial was actually dismissed for lying to the judge in an investigation he conducted in the middle of the trial.
		So frankly, I'm really surprised at how much credibility people are putting in her story of how she would have voted and why she was excused.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think we tend to grasp at straws that support what we want to believe.
unidentified		You know, there's a lot of truth to that, that people have come to a conclusion and they tend to emphasize the portions of the case that support their conclusion.
		I saw that a lot with the commentators.
		It got so you could almost predict what spin they would put on the day's events once you knew how they wanted the case to come out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you frankly, in the beginning, I very much thought O.J. Simpson was guilty.
		But when I watched the trial, and you got to the point where you had the motion to dismiss because of an alleged Fourth Amendment violation when investigators jumped offense and all the rest of it, I thought that was a very, very strong case.
		And I said, you know, guilty or not, as I look at this, I think they've made their case there was a Fourth Amendment violation.
		And to this day, I believe that.
unidentified		Well, you know, from a tactical standpoint, what that motion really revealed was the willingness of police officers to play games with the truth.
		And once we had exposed that, I think it started creating doubts.
		And ultimately, that's, I think, where the jury really had problems with this case.
		It's not that they rejected the science of DNA.
		They just rejected the messengers who brought the evidence into the courtroom and concluded that you really couldn't trust what they were being told by the LAPD.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that planted the seed that resulted in the, you think, in the dismissal in their minds of the DNA evidence, which did really seem quite compelling.
unidentified		Well, it was compelling only if you actually believed that each exhibit came from the source that they said it came from, that there had been no contamination, no mixing up of swatches, you know, that everything had been done by the book.
unidentified		And it was pretty clear, I think, especially with the suspicions raised about the blood that was found on the sock and on the back gate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, if you had to do all over again from the day you got the call from Robert Shapiro, would you do it all over again?
unidentified		You bet.
		I wouldn't hesitate for a moment.
		As a defense lawyer, you know going in that people will regard you as some sort of sleaze and you'll have to put up with a lot of the dislike of your client.
		It always rubs off on the lawyer.
		But as a law professor, I realized going in that this is a case we're going to talk about for the next 20 years.
		That's true.
		Every issue that we talk about in courses, in criminal law, criminal procedure, evidence, they were all litigated in this case.
		So it's going to be a wonderful teaching tool, and to have been right in the middle of it just gave me a fantastic perspective.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Toward that end, was there any precedent, legal precedent established, do you think, in that trial?
unidentified		Well, you know, precedent is established when an appellate court writes an opinion that will be followed by future courts.
		So from the standpoint of the technical meaning of precedent, no.
		But from the standpoint of how this case will affect the behavior of participants in the criminal justice system in the future, I think it's going to have enormous impact.
		And some of the impact will truly be positive.
		I mean, we have seen a real increase in the Number of police laboratories seeking accreditation.
		I think police are going to do a better job of training their personnel, and especially as we're kind of on the verge of this new technology of DNA that's going to really have tremendous impact on the future of criminal justice.
		So it was really good, I think, for everyone to get a wake-up call and realize if you're going to use this technology, you've got to gear up so that you can do it right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you discuss, well, are you representing O.J. Simpson in any way in the civil matter that's presently underway, wrongful deathsuit?
unidentified		Well, all the lawyers, I think, are being consulted from time to time as the lawyers handling the civil case prepare it.
unidentified		But my direct involvement has been limited to arguing one motion, and that was the challenge to the punitive damages aspect of the civil case as double jeopardy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm going to try a question on you, and maybe you can and can't answer it.
		NBC, it was, several days ago, reported that in deposition Marcus Allen said that O.J. had called him and asked him to lie for him in suggesting that Marcus had had an affair with Nicole and that O.J. was trying to show that, in fact, he was not wildly jealous and had hosted Marcus's wedding and all the rest of it.
		Marcus denied all this and said O.J. lied.
unidentified		Well, I think we'll have to see who's lying about that.
		You have to bear in mind that there's lots of motivation to conceal the relationship, if it existed, on Marcus Allen's part, too.
		Marcus was a very, very reluctant witness.
		He fought the subpoena when he was subpoenaed at trial.
		So we'll see how that all shakes out.
		I would be very careful about what stock you put into these leaks of what's coming out of the depositions.
		It's really a replay of what happened at the trial where the plaintiffs' lawyers have motives in terms of trying to shape public opinion by leaking selected portions of the evidence without the whole thing coming out.
		And that's what was going on prior to the criminal trial with the LAPD leaking a lot of information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Speaking of reluctance, did your defense team have a terrible time trying to get witnesses to testify because of the public nature of this whole thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of reluctance?
unidentified		That's one reason I ultimately concluded that the television cameras were a mistake.
		It really affected the willingness of witnesses to come in and testify for fear of the notoriety that would accompany their testimony.
		And other witnesses testified like they were doing a gig.
		I think when the cameras start to have that impact on what actually is going on in the courtroom, that's the time the cameras should be put out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've got court TV, but I've noticed in a lot of high-profile cases since, judges have chosen to not allow TV cameras in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that a trend that will continue?
unidentified		It's certainly a trend up until now, although I think the reluctance may wear off.
		And in most cases, there's no reason to be concerned.
		I think it's only a case that attracts this degree of attention that the cameras become like gasoline on a fire and really just exacerbate the problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's a question I've always wanted to ask somebody of your caliber, and that is, if I were accused of a murder and I retained you as an attorney to represent me, and at some point, perhaps midway through, you either discovered or I told you that I was guilty, what kind of pressure and ethical dilemma does that bring to bear on you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever had to face that without discussing any specific case?
unidentified		Well, I think most criminal lawyers have faced similar kinds of problems.
		The limitation that knowing your client is guilty puts on you is you cannot participate in the knowing presentation of perjured evidence.
		So at that point you couldn't put your client on the stand to lie about it and say, I didn't do it when he had told you that he did do it.
		And it may put some limits on what kind of other evidence you can present.
		That never became a problem in the Simpson case.
		O.J. insisted on his innocence with all of his lawyers at all times throughout the proceedings.
		And we never really had any reason to doubt his denials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was going to be the next question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In your heart, any doubts, nagging doubts now?
unidentified		Not really.
		I am still convinced that this was the right verdict and that O.J. truly is innocent.
		I found myself persuaded by my assessment of O.J. the man.
		In the course of representing him, I concluded this man is not a sociopath, and he's not a very good actor.
		And I think you'd have to believe he's one or the other to have performed according to the prosecution scenario.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How close did the defense team come to putting O.J. Simpson on the stand?
unidentified		Well, if you listened carefully to Johnny Cochran's opening statement, you would have bet money that O.J. was going to testify.
		And that was certainly our intention at the time.
		As the case developed, we realized we were succeeding in focusing the jury's attention on June 11th, on June 12th, and away from all of the 17-year prior relationship.
		And that's where the prosecution wanted to focus the jury's attention.
		I mean, they started out and they never let up on the attempt to kind of demonize Simpson as a wife-batterer and to kind of keep the case in that posture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mistaken strategy, I take it.
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		And we knew that if O.J. took the stand at the end of the trial, the prosecutors would spend weeks cross-examining him about that prior relationship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, the rumors flew that he had kind of a rehearsal, and I'm sure you would do that sort of thing, and that it went poorly, and that was part of what factored into your deciding not to put him on the stand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Truth, truth or not?
unidentified		Well, I think the rumor is inaccurate in reporting that he did poorly.
		Actually, he did quite well.
		But I think it helped us persuade him as to what the prosecutors would do with the cross-examination because he realized the extent to which they would bear down on the prior relationship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did O.J. Simpson quick answer generally take your advice or go insist on his own road of defense?
unidentified		I have to say he is one of the most savvy, intelligent clients I have ever represented.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, on that note, we've got a pause.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Rest, we'll be right back to you.
		Professor Gerald Ullman is my guest.
		Back in a moment.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from June
		6th, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
		You're listening to Rock Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks tonight.
		An encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest, Professor Gerald Ullman, O.J. Simpson's attorney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we'll get back to him in just a moment.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of June 6th, 1996, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Music Back now to Professor Ullman, Professor from Milo in El Paso.
		He asks me, how does it feel, Art, to be dancing with the devil?
		So there you go, Professor.
		They just attach it right to you, don't they?
unidentified		Yeah, you run into a lot of that.
		And, you know, defense lawyers learn to live with that.
		We're in a business where we know we're going to be identified with the unpopularity of our client.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so do talk show hosts, believe me.
		Listen, there was a big brouhaha over the use of the so-called race card, and it was said that Robert Shiro got very upset, nearly left the team as a result of it.
		Any truth to that?
		Is that something you can talk about or want to talk about or don't?
unidentified		Well, there was never really any explosive blow-up within the team.
		I think that all happened after the trial was over.
		And I think Bob stands alone on that issue.
		I certainly disagree in terms of the criticism of Cochran's closing argument.
		I thought the argument was right on point, and what was being played was not a race card.
		It was a credibility card, that the racial attitudes of Detective Fuhrm were an issue that had to be confronted, it had to be talked about, it had to be squarely faced.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The burden of proof in a civil trial is quite a bit less.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any predictions regarding the outcome of that ongoing?
unidentified		Well, you know, despite the fact that they will not have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, and they will not have to convince all of the jurors even, because in California, a civil verdict can be returned by nine of the 12 jurors, I think that the probability is that the case will come out the same, because there's one big difference on the defense side, and that is that O.J. will testify.
unidentified		And I think his testimony will be quite credible and quite persuasive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What mistakes did the main mistakes you think the prosecution made?
unidentified		Well, I think that the primary weakness on the prosecution side was an arrogance about the case that they were presenting in terms of really not anticipating its weaknesses, not digging deep enough to expose the potential problems they were going to run into, especially with Detective Fuhrman.
		There were plenty of warning signs and signals to them that this is a witness who could blow up in their face.
		And when that happened, I think they were completely blindsided because they hadn't done the work that they should have done to investigate his background in advance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the glove, the glove, the glove, the glove.
		And how important a factor was that, the demonstration in court of the glove not fitting and all the rest of it?
		People called up and complained bitterly on the radio here and everywhere else that it was an inaccurate demonstration that the whole glove thing was a farce.
		And how do you respond to that?
unidentified		Well, I think the whole thing has been overemphasized from the perspective of the jurors who have commented since the verdict.
		They really didn't see the glove experiment as pivotal.
		You know, the line that I contributed to Johnny Cochran's closing argument, if it doesn't fit, you must acquit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was your line.
unidentified		Yes, yeah.
		Actually, Cochrane's closing argument was a wonderful, like a symphony pulling together a lot of suggestions from all of the lawyers.
		And that's the way Johnny works.
		And he's very good about acknowledging the help that other people have given.
		That line came to me more from the jury instructions than from the glove experiment, although I thought it was a wonderful way to kind of reprise the glove experiment as well.
		But the real gist of it is that the most important instruction the jury was given on circumstantial evidence told them that they have to put all the pieces of the circumstantial evidence together, and if it points to either guilt or innocence, they must go with the interpretation that points to innocence.
		In other words, if it doesn't fit, you must acquit.
		And it really summed up the whole approach that we took in the closing argument in terms of the circumstantial evidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The attorneys on your side were so very different.
		You took a very quiet, academic approach.
		Shapiro, Bailey, very different.
		Barry Chuck, yet different again.
		Johnny Cochrane, yet different again.
		It is amazing to me that the defense team, with such differences in style, held together so well, seemingly.
unidentified		Well, you know, the difference in style in part reflected the different roles that were assigned to everyone.
		I never addressed the jury.
		My role entirely was to write the motions and argue the motions with respect to what evidence would be admitted and kept out and to prepare the jury instructions and argue those.
		So, you know, the approach I took was the one that I believed would be most persuasive with the judge.
		Whereas Cochran and Scheck had the task of persuading the jurors and getting them to come together to be of one mind.
		And I thought the coordination of their closing argument was really the high point in terms of the team working together.
		I thought that between the two of them, they really captured the hearts and minds of the jurors.
		I thought we won the case in the closing argument.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, again, the motion, though, to dismiss.
		Were you surprised that did not succeed on the Fourth Amendment violation grounds?
unidentified		No, I was disappointed, but I wasn't surprised because I realized how difficult it is for judges to call police officers liars.
		And they will use every device possible to avoid coming to that conclusion.
		And I think that's one reason that police perjury is so prevalent.
		They regularly get away with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about Judge Ito?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would you assess his performance throughout?
unidentified		You know, I, in the book, give Judge Ito an A-plus for the jury selection.
		I thought he handled jury selection in a way that where all of the jurors virtually had been exposed to pretrial publicity, the lawyers were given enough opportunity on Voadir and through the questionnaire that was administered to really probe the jurors and be satisfied that they would be able to put aside what they had been exposed to prior to trial.
		But it's interesting that that's the one aspect of the trial that was not televised.
		And it's almost as though Judge Ito performed best when the camera was not on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, for me as a viewer, my heart skipped a beat when the day he was prepared to throw television cameras out and, in fact, really had done so, and then reversed himself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think he did that?
unidentified		Well, actually, the arguments in favor of keeping the cameras at that point were quite persuasive arguments.
		I thought the lawyers representing the media did a wonderful job of really stressing the level of public interest and public concern with this case.
		Ultimately, though, I think the cameras were a mistake, but I have to admit we had some benefits from the camera, too.
		People tend to overlook the fact that but for the television cameras, there's testimony and witnesses that never would have been found in this case.
		The best example of that from the defense side is Kathleen Bell, a key witness in impeaching Detective Fuhrman, who recognized him when he was testifying on television and said, hey, that's the same cop I heard making all those racist comments five years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Post-trial, there's been a zillion interviews.
		Most recently with Chris Darden, who was on with Howard Stern and sort of actively not denying an allegation that he had had a relationship with Marshall Clark, an intimate relationship with Marsh Clark, and laughing it off and suggesting that it, well, yeah, it might have happened.
		What would you say about the professional level of two prosecutors who would become personally involved during the CrossFit case?
unidentified		Well, frankly, I don't even want to comment on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't blame you.
unidentified		To me, it's just totally irrelevant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Vehicle for selling books.
unidentified		Yeah, and I hope they're not using it to promote book sales.
unidentified		I mean, that's just beneath contempt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Beneath contempt.
		All right, I would like to allow the audience to ask a couple of questions in the time we have remaining.
		So if we might, to the telephones.
		And East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Ullman.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
unidentified		I'm in San Antonio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		San Antonio, yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes.
		archer opening remarks to uh...
		mr olman was that you were you know you were kind of convinced uh...
		early on that there was uh...
		that you know j wasn't guilty and ever since the No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said quite the opposite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was early on convinced, in fact, he was guilty.
unidentified		Well, since the trial, you've always said that you still think he's guilty, and you think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is accurate, sir.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I had a question for Mr. Ullman.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor.
unidentified		Professor Ullman?
		Yes.
		I thought he was the lawyer.
		You're both?
		Okay.
		Yes.
		Yeah, I teach at a law school, and I practice law as well.
		Okay.
		Regarding the blood spot they found on the gate, you know, where they say that O.J., whenever he was walking off from the murder, they said they found the bloodstain there.
		Right.
		How many weeks, how many days did it take to find that blood drop?
		And was it contaminated with that, what do they call it, EB something?
		EDTA.
		EDTA.
		Yes.
		That blood was removed from the gate three weeks after the murder, after the crime scene had been washed down.
		And what's most interesting is that The concentration of DNA in that blood spot was higher than any other blood sample that they found.
		And there was traces of EDTA in that blood spot.
		So that was a very, very suspicious concern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think it was planetary?
unidentified		I think it was, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Ullman.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good morning, Art.
		It's an honor, Professor Ullman.
		One quick comment and a couple questions.
		First of all, I think it's extremely scary to think that OJ has proclaimed his innocence.
		The jury has found him innocent.
		The lawyers have definitely stood behind him.
		And from all indications, the man is innocent.
		But, however, it took a vast amount of input from a huge team of lawyers to get an innocent man off.
		What I'm saying is, could one of the lawyers that represented O.J. did him justice?
		Could one lawyer have done him justice?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting question.
		In fact, there's an extension of that question.
		And of course it is, is justice equal in America in the sense that O.J. Simpson was able to get you and many others, Professor, because he had the money?
unidentified		Yeah, there's no question but that the resources that he had gave him a significant advantage.
		If someone is indigent and accused of a crime of this nature, of course, they can come to the court and say, please appoint an expert to assist in my defense.
		And they'll get a DNA expert, but it'll be halfway to trial before they see that expert.
		And I think the real advantage we had with so many lawyers was being able to get this case prepared for trial very quickly and get our experts on board very early in the proceedings.
		And that really made a difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was he, in effect, able to purchase reasonable doubt?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that unfair?
unidentified		Yeah, I think it's unfair.
		I think we would have had the same outcome, but it just would have taken a lot longer to get there.
		What worries me is that if we have to admit that money makes a difference, and I think we do, then we have to admit that lack of money makes a difference.
		And I'm more concerned about the injustice that occurs when we don't provide a defendant with the necessary resources.
		Within weeks after this verdict came down, Congress voted to defund 20 death penalty resource centers throughout the country.
		And these centers were just doing marvelous work of raising the level of competence of representation for indigents who were on trial for their life.
		And in effect, Congress is saying we don't want to spend the money that it takes to ensure that those on trial for their life are well represented.
		And to me, that's just incongruous when everybody says, oh, look at the difference that money made in this case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, while we're going down this road, there is presently a death row inmate, and I'm sure you're up on this, who has been, I think, appealing since about 1986 or 2007.
		And, of course, the President, as part of the anti-terrorism bill, signed a new law limiting appeals to one and then a quick review by a three-judge panel to stop frivolous appeals after that.
		He is challenging that whole thing, claiming it's unconstitutional to limit appeals, and it's going to go to the U.S. Supreme Court where there is going to be, possibly, a constitutional crisis.
		And I guess the issue is, can the U.S. Supreme Court be told by Congress what cases it can and cannot hear?
		Is this going to be a crisis?
unidentified		Well, lawfully, Congress does have that power to limit the jurisdiction of the federal courts to hear appeals.
		And the real question that's coming up is the application of this law to cases that were in the pipeline before the law went into effect, kind of the retroactive impact of the law.
		So this law will certainly have significant impact on future cases.
		And there are lots of examples of cases where people have been on death row for years before the evidence was finally found to exonerate them and show their innocence.
		We just had an example of that in Illinois this past year, the case of Rolando Cruz, who spent 10 years on death row before they were able to establish that it was police perjury that put him there.
		And through DNA tests, established that someone who confessed to the murder eight years ago actually committed it.
		And the police had spent the last eight years trying to discredit that confession.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see then that the court will hold this law to be constitutional?
unidentified		I think the present Supreme Court is very much inclined to go along with the whole movement to speed up the review process in death penalty cases.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Professor, we come to the end of the hour, and I know you've got to go, and I know you're pooped, and I don't blame you.
		Lessons from the trial, where can people get books?
unidentified		It should be in the bookstores.
		Ask for it if you don't see it.
		It's published by Andrews and McMeal, and it's got my picture on the cover.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long did it take you to write this?
unidentified		Actually, I didn't decide to even do a book until after the verdict came in.
		So I started writing it in November, and it took about three months of writing.
		When the verdict came down, I was in the midst of writing a play, and I'm equally excited about my play.
		It's going to open in Omaha on June 13th.
		It's a one-man play on the life of William Jennings Bryant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		Oh, wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea you were doing that.
unidentified		I'm very excited about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that is exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're not exactly retired, are you?
unidentified		Well, I like to write, and this was a great opportunity to put it to what I hope is a useful function of helping people understand what really went on in this case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was the O.J. Simpson case, Professor, the highlight of your career?
unidentified		Well, from the standpoint of being a law professor, the opportunity to be right in the middle of a case that we're going to talk about for the next 25 years just about has to be, I guess, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, it was a tremendous opportunity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor Ullman, we're out of time.
		Bless your heart for being here.
		Get a good night's sleep, and thank you.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That's Professor Gerald Ullman, O.J. Simpson's attorney.
		I'm Art Bell.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks tonight.
		An encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
		I hear the drums echoing tonight.
		She is only whispers of some quiet conversation.
		She's coming in.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired June 6th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Good to be here.
		Continuing now and moving into open lines in a moment.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. We just did one hour with Gerald Bowman, Professor, O.J. Simpson's attorney, one of O.J. Simpson's attorneys, and I've always wanted to do that, always wanted to talk to that man.
		Now I have.
		All right, let's cover a few topics.
		And there's not a whole lot in the news, so we're going to let it kind of sort of drift this morning.
		We've got a guest coming up Friday night, Saturday morning, who I think you're really, really going to enjoy.
		And that would be Dr. Pepsi Togar, who interprets dreams, and not in a way that you've heard before.
		If you didn't catch Dreamland, I think you'll enjoy Friday night, Saturday morning.
		The doctor is very different in what you think a dream means.
		Well, I'll tell you what, it doesn't.
		You'll find out.
		Alaska.
		We have a lot of coverage of Alaska.
		As a matter of fact, like a blanket, we cover Alaska.
		And there's a big fire up there right now, 60 miles north of Anchorage.
		It really is a big fire.
		And reinforcements are being called in.
		150 homes have been destroyed up there.
		37,000 acres have been consumed.
		1,000 people have been evacuated.
		And guess what?
		Investigators tonight are saying they believe fireworks began the blaze.
		Interesting.
		Now that issue for a second aside, isn't it a bit early for such dry conditions in Alaska?
		Now, I would think that the water from the melt would still be keeping things fairly green and moist.
		And so I'm very surprised that Alaska is having this much difficulty this early.
		I watched a movie earlier today about Alaska, which I thought was very good.
		And I'm trying desperately to remember the name of it.
		It was The Blue Arctic or something like that.
		and it was uh...
		it was quite well done it was about I guess it was in a way, a sort of a murder mystery drama type thing that took place way outside Fairbanks.
		And at one point in the movie, they actually had KFAR and Fairbanks mentioned in the movie, I suppose, out in the bush, way outside Fairbanks.
		KFAR is about the only thing you can hear.
		That was the setting of the movie, someplace outside Fairbanks.
		And it was really a well-done movie.
		I'm going to have to go into the other room and dig out the name of that movie for you.
		I think a lot of you in Alaska would be interested.
		A lot of you not in Alaska would be interested.
		Alaska, as you know, is a very, very different kind of place.
		And this movie was not your normal murder mystery.
		It addressed the kind of people that live in Fairbanks and outside Fairbanks and way outside Fairbanks.
		And it's a very different kind of world that if you have never lived there.
		Well, it's kind of like The Last Frontier.
		It was absolutely fascinating.
		Now, there's a big Medicare fight going on.
		As you know, the trustees of Medicare opened their books yesterday, and they said, gee, guess what?
		Medicare is going to go Broke by the year 2001.
		That's a year earlier than they previously thought.
		Unless the politicians do something to fix it, the rapid growth must be cut.
		Republicans say the president vetoed the balanced budget amendment that would have fixed it for a few years.
		The Democrats say the Republicans rejected fixes that both sides had previously agreed about.
		In other words, both sides aren't really doing a damn thing.
		Both sides do not want this as a campaign issue.
		Both sides know the long-term problem for Medicare is actually insoluble, and they won't even talk about that.
		They will, no doubt, eventually talk about a short-term fix because they're going to have to.
		But long-term, it's like our debt.
		It may be past the point of no return, and they know it.
		They know it.
		There are 37 million people on Medicare in America today.
		That's one in eight over 65 years of age in our country.
		And by the year 2030, one in five will be over 65.
		And instead of 37 million, there will be 70 million on Medicare.
	And it'll be far past broke.
	So the problem, you see, is insoluble.
	And both sides, they're not even going to talk about it.
	They don't want it as a campaign issue because then they would have to talk about what's really coming.
	So as far as I am concerned, both sides, Democrats and Republicans, in varying degrees perhaps, are being dishonest, lying to the American people, lying by omission.
	If the real truth is this program and all the others are going to be consumed by the increasing interest on the debt, and that is what's going to occur, as well as their own burgeoning costs, then that's what they ought to tell the American people.
	But the American people don't want to hear that.
	They don't want to hear it.
	Did you know that one-third of the $200 billion Medicare money every year is spent in the last year of life?
	The last year of life.
	And one half of that amount, one half of that amount is spent in the last 10 days of life.
	The last 10 days.
	With exotic machines that keep you breathing, keep your heart beating.
	Even though your brain is never going to recover, they keep it going at great cost.
	Maybe somebody ought to start talking about that.
	What do you think?
	So I'm presently sort of disgusted very nearly equally with both sides on this issue.
	I wonder how you feel about it.
	FBI and a member of the anti-government, Freeman, have held the first face-to-face talks between the two sides in more than two weeks.
	The get-together occurred Wednesday night away from the compound, where members of the separatist group have been holed up since late March.
	A man identified by neighbors as Edwin Clark met with federal agents at a church about a mile from the ranch, which is being used by the FBI as a field post.
	Session lasted just about two hours.
	No word on what was said.
	Afterward, Clark was driven back to the Freeman compound by his wife, who then get this, left the ranch by herself.
	More stories on the Chupacabra.
	Every day.
	More stories.
	The Orange County Register.
	Mythical chupacabra instills fear.
	Some claim to have seen the monster now in Santa Ana.
	Santa Ana?
	Chupacabra in Santa Ana?
	Now, how would the chupacabra make its way through a densely populated area like Santa Ana without being photographed, printed, identified?
	And you just wouldn't think Los Angeles area would be a good place for any chupacabra to hide.
	But I suppose that it could get out into the hills and not be spotted.
	I don't know.
	But every day, a new and major newspaper is reporting on the Chupacabra.
unidentified		Chupacabra.
		Looking for the truth?
		You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
		I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
		This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
		There was a much bigger picture there.
		And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go in Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
		Because it's going to continue.
		We're going to have more and more episodes and more and more involvement in other countries.
		And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
		And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
unidentified		Coast of Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
		Now you'll be able to connect to most of the offerings of the Coast website on your phone in a quick and streamlined fashion.
		And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to listen to live programs and stream previous shows.
		No special app is necessary to enjoy our new mobile site.
		Simply visit CoastToCoastAM.com on your iPhone or Android browser.
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		And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit Coast2CoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Now we take you back to the night of June 6th, 1996, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		The End Now the Demon Seed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have received more email, more faxes on the Demon Seed.
		The Demon Seed, so-called, nicknamed, we've got to nickname everything it seems, comes or is on its way from the Seattle area.
		Bill grew this horrible thing in his yard.
		He had to finally hack at it with a hacksaw and even now doesn't have it under control, claims it is Darnier contacted authorities, was going to contact me.
		I requested him to, but he doesn't want to be on the air, and I don't blame him.
		This thing was consuming his yard, threatening to consume him, I guess.
		Grew some horrible, ugly meat.
		Meat, mind you.
		So he's sending me the seeds.
		Why me?
		I have no idea why me.
		I guess it's just my lot in life, whether it's Roswell Parts, a legend, or demon seeds.
		As I said yesterday, I fully expect to go to the post office and see some sort of cage there with a full chupacabra banging back and forth waiting for me.
		Dear Art, I have only been in the Washington State area for a couple of months, but I tuned into your radio broadcast recently, heard the disturbing news of the gentleman who found some mystery seeds in his grandfather's lead-lined lock box.
		I'm writing to warn you not to plant them.
		Although I've not been in the area for long, I have in the past been employed at a facility similar to the Hanford nuclear plant, and I am aware of ongoing secret research into genetic cloning and radioactive isotope flora experimentation.
		This is taking place at this very moment in nuclear facilities in the Midwest, and I've heard rumors of the same here in Washington.
		For ethical reasons, I had to terminate my previous employment.
		I'm now living incognito here in the great Northwest.
		Arn, from what I've heard on your radio program, you seem to be a reasonable man.
		I beg of you, for God's sakes, don't plant this foul Frankenstein offspring.
		If you have any concern for your fellow man, if you have an ounce of care for the environment and the posterity of future generations, if you have even one shred of decency as a human being, then I appeal to your conscience now.
		I will be contacting you in the near future with documentation that will prove the existence of these horrible, mutant, bastard bean plants.
		God.
		Although the researchers involved have the fine goal of feeding starving humanity through scientific advances at heart, nevertheless, they have opened up Pandora's box.
		It's a box of horrors, the likes of which Bill has described in his backyard is only the beginning.
		I hope it's not too late, Art.
		Destroy the killer seeds with fire immediately.
		Don't breathe the fumes.
		You'll be hearing from me soon, signed, Worried, in Seattle.
		And then to give a little credibility to this whole subject, hello, Art.
		About a week ago, I watched a show on animals of the occult on the Discovery Channel.
		Guess what?
		They covered several animals that have been admired by several cultures over the centuries, bats, beetles, snakes, etc.
		At one point, they discussed a couple of plants within the topic.
		One was a plant with a large, hideous flower that smelled like rotten meat.
		The plant was used in order to attract flies.
		The flies, then in turn, would transfer pollen from plant to plant.
		Well, I guess they do.
		I always thought that was the job of bees.
		In one of God's unusual miracles, I guess, since this aired before you received your facts about the seeds, I really didn't pay close enough attention to get the name of the plant.
		But there's got to be someone out there who has it.
		And it goes on and on and on.
		An email, Art, I must also express my opinion as to your course of action regarding meat seeds, which are now winging their way into your sweaty and hesitant palms.
		I say don't plant them.
		At least not now, anyway, considering what Dames and others have said is in our future.
		I think you should save the seeds for a time when other less hardy plants are unable to survive the harsh environmental conditions.
		You will then be known and remembered as the person who saved humanity from starvation and extinction.
		In the great tradition of Johnny Appleseed, the name Arthur Demonseed Bell will live on in the legends of our descendants.
unidentified		laughter
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me take a quick break Here, while I can still keep a straight face, I presume these seeds are on the way now, winging their way.
		The Arthur Bell demon seed.
		One last note, and then we'll go to the phones.
		From Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
		Another quickening story.
		A 16-year-old boy arrested Wednesday, charged with raping a one-year-old girl.
unidentified		A one-year-old girl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The teenager, whose name, of course, will not be released until he is charged as an adult later this week, had been hiding in neighboring Livingston Parish since the infant was attacked eight days ago.
		According to Kelly, the victim's mother left the baby with her two young sisters and two neighborhood children, including this 16-year-old while running errands.
		When she returned, the infant was bleeding heavily, had bruises on her face and back.
		The child was taken to a hospital, then transferred to Our Lady of the Lake Regional Medical Center for Surgery.
		Pediatric surgeon, Dr. Faith Hansborough, said the baby suffered a very serious degree of physical trauma from the sexual abuse.
		Quote, this is the worst case I've ever seen since I've been practicing.
		If convicted as an adult, by the way, the teenager could be sentenced to death.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you know, I don't even, I don't, I don't like these stories, and I don't know what to do with them except to add them up and sort of just want them in with everything else that seems to be going on.
		Our society is in serious moral and ethical decline.
		It is what I choose to call the quickening.
		I'll let you speculate about where it's going, why it is.
		I don't know.
		I truly don't know.
		I just know that it is occurring, and that if we don't do something about it, it is going to get us in one of many ways.
		And I can't tell you what.
		You know, I am not a prophet.
		I can't tell you that the jet stream is going to come down and visit us with 300 mile per hour winds or California is going to fall off into the ocean.
		And I just, I'm not a prophet, even though I interview people who say that kind of thing.
		I don't know that kind of stuff to be true.
		It may be.
		What I do know is that I observe by the day that things are worsening.
		Our social interactions, our racism, our hatreds, they're all on the increase.
		And I'm telling you, this is headed towards something.
		You know me in religion, a believer, but still a little skeptical and unsure of a path there.
		So I don't predict that it's the final days and Christ is going to be coming back shortly.
		I don't know.
		I just know there is something going on.
		It's headed somewhere, and we better do something because it won't be long.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from June
		6th, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Well, well, well, look at this.
		Art, I'm working late, but lost out of frustration facts this message.
		Your guest, meaning Professor Owens, is the best example I've heard of a detached, cold, heartless, lost soul.
		He's found not only the nerve to be part of a defense of a very sick killer, but has seen his way clear to profit from the death of Simpson's wife.
		To him I'd say spend the blood money from your book, knowing you will be ultimately judged for defending this monster PSR.
		You've reached a new low in having this creep as a guest.
		That's from somebody named Dexter, not of the flowers.
		Well, you know, I'll have anybody as a guest, and besides that, I don't feel that way about Professor Oman at all.
		As a matter of fact, I was kind of a fan.
		I thought that his motions were filed articulately, academically, well-argued, and I respect the man greatly.
		And that has nothing to do with what I think about the guilt or innocence of O.J. Simpson.
		I very much respect the man.
		I think he's a scholar, and I'm very proud to have had him on the show.
		So reaching a new low, I don't think so.
		As you must have learned by now from listening to this program, I do all kinds of interviews on all kinds of subjects, and I don't limit myself or this program to any particular road.
		As a matter of fact, more than ever, lately I've been disgusted, absolutely disgusted, with politics, and this whole Medicare thing is right at the top of the list.
		As far as I'm concerned, both sides are lying to the American people, flat-out lying.
		And I can't get into a debate about the minutia of political, meaningless crap.
		And as far as I'm concerned, this discussion is with regard to political issues for the campaign right now.
		It's minutia and crap.
		I'm sorry.
		But if you look downline a little bit, there is no solution to the Medicare problem, none at all.
		And both sides are not going to talk about it.
		So as far as I'm concerned, pots on both their houses, you know.
		And that's just the way I feel about politics right now.
		I go back and forth and back and forth.
		When I see a real issue, I'll sit here and fight it out like anybody else.
		But I don't see any real issue right now.
		I see rhetoric.
		I see the re-election of Bill Clinton.
		I don't think Bob Dole's going to beat him.
		And now that will bring facts to saying, oh, stop saying that, Art.
		It's what I think.
		If that changes, I'll let you know.
		Right now, the way I see it, Bob Dole is a wonderful guy.
		He's a patriot.
		He was a hero in the war.
unidentified		But he's not going to beat Bill Clinton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's not going to beat Bill Clinton.
		He can barely get a paragraph out.
		He's not a campaigner.
		He's an example of the Peter principle.
		You know what that is?
		It's when people who are very good in a job and as a minority and then majority leader, he was very good, rise to a position for which they're not qualified.
		And that is not that he would not be qualified to be president, but that he's not qualified to campaign against Bill Clinton.
		Clinton's going to beat him.
		And we're going to have, it may be a terrible whooping, in my opinion.
		One that would bring a majority of Democrats back to the Senate, maybe even the House.
		And you try and figure another four years with Bill Clinton.
		So that's my opinion.
		And as far as the political campaign goes so far, totally uninterested.
		And I'm not going to sit here and sponsor a meaningless argument.
		You know, I'm sure there's big discussions going on elsewhere about Medicare and ooh, our plan is better and our plan is better.
		They both stink.
		And both of them are lying to us by omission.
		Medicare is going to go broke.
		We're going to go broke, period.
		And they're not even talking about that.
		At least when we had the Texan in the race, we had a little bit of honesty injected about what was coming.
		Now that's all forgotten, and they're going to argue meaningless minutia.
		Arctic Blue.
		That was the name of the movie I saw earlier today.
		Arctic Blue.
		Has anybody seen that?
		God, that was a good movie.
		It was about Alaska, and it was about, it was sort of a murder mystery, but it was about the people who live in the bush outside Fairbanks.
		And I would like to hear from some of you up in Fairbanks.
		Was that a fair representation of what it's like once you get away from the big city in Fairbanks?
		Which really isn't a very big city in the sense that it's still kind of a frontier location itself.
		But what about once you get out in the bush?
		And I've received this with respect to Alaska as well.
		Art need help on the fire thing.
		Live between Wasilla and Big Lake.
		Alaska, fire's out of control.
		It's from Jim.
		He said, my home and my friends are in trouble right now.
		So I would like to hear from you, any of you up in that particular area or any of you up in the Fairbanks area and kind of try to get an idea of whether what was depicted in Arctic Blue.
		That was a good movie.
		I forget.
		It may have been on Cinemax 2 or something like that.
		Check your TV guide.
		See if you can catch it.
		So if you're up in Alaska in one of the two locations, give me a call on our West of the Rockies line right now at 1-800-618-8255.
		Would everybody else on that line for just a little bit hold off?
		I really would like to hear from Alaska.
		I don't know why I'm suddenly obsessing on Alaska, the fire, I guess, in the movie earlier today.
		So I'd like to hear from Alaska.
		Everybody else, just hold off a little bit.
		Let Alaska get through, if you would, please.
		Let us get a few reports from the fire area.
		It's horrible.
		It's horrible.
		And somebody else wrote and said there just wasn't enough snow.
		And this is June, early June.
		What's it going to be like in August?
		Early September?
		Awful.
		Really awful.
		So, Alaska, please.
		1-800-618-8255.
		And it was, again, it was kind of heartening to hear in the movie Arctic Blue, the only station heard way outside of Fairbanks was KFAR.
		And my ears perked up at that one.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello there.
	No, you're not.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello?
unidentified		I am calling from Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you in Alaska?
unidentified		Right now, I'm in Anchorage, Alaska.
		They've evacuated people from Big Lake Houston and all that area because the fire, they cannot contain it.
		They put it out.
		The wind shifts it.
		I mean, we've got, the wind is not wind.
		I mean, tornado wind, hurricane wind.
		I mean, wind, strong wind is blowing.
		And besides that, the fire makes a bag of wind, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so when it gets that far out of control, the only thing you can do is get the hell out of the way, I guess, huh?
unidentified		Well, we've had the weirdest winter.
unidentified		We did the, you know, remember all the snow in the lower 48?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		You got our snow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's absolutely true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happened is the jet stream shifted, and instead of sweeping it all over you, it swept it swept it.
unidentified		We had an umbrella over Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		You got our snow.
		You got our water.
		Then our breakup time, you know, number one, I forgot.
		Also, because we didn't have snow, a week before the Ididarod, you know what that is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, I live there, dear.
unidentified		Okay.
		Week before, we got snow for the Eidarod.
		They'd already canceled the, remember how we usually have the car races and everything?
		They canceled a lot of Ididarod events because of no snow.
		I mean, no snow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember people were calling up saying there's something wrong with our winter and now it's being reflected in the summer.
unidentified		Yeah, we didn't get, you know how, remember during spring you get the rain?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I think we've had rain three times.
unidentified		And I don't mean rain, I mean showers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there really wasn't much of a breakup because there wasn't much to break up.
unidentified		No, there wasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Breakup in Alaska refers to the melt in the spring.
		Well, all right.
		I really appreciate the call.
unidentified		Yeah, we need prayers, sir.
unidentified		We need prayers bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll send them your way.
unidentified		Because we do not have the people nor the equipment up here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're bringing in firefighters now from other states.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how serious it is.
unidentified		But see, you know how serious it was?
		They waited too long.
		It should have been done instantly because it's that dry out here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, to be fair to them, though, they were fooled.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They actually thought they had it under control, and then suddenly the wind came up.
unidentified		Well, see, the wind was already out there, and anybody with brains that's lived up here long enough can tell our humidity has even been crazier than it's normal.
		I mean, it just has not been regular weather.
		And I don't know right now if my home, my Justice Cedar home, the only thing I have of over 20 years of marriage, is destroyed or not because nobody's allowed back in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've got a home in the area?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
		They're evacuating everybody.
		First, they moved everybody to Big Lake, elementary school and stuff there, which they didn't stay long because the wind changed.
		The wind keeps changing direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And they had to move them out of there.
		They're now in Wasilla.
		And if they don't get a control on it, they're going to be moving them out of Wasilla.
		Houston.
		And now, instead of it going to the south, it's now going to the north.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, thank you very much.
		And we'll take some more reports.
		I want to hold that line for Alaska for a bit here.
		I think we're having a change in weather, folks.
		I really do.
		And I had a report the other day, prior to the discussion with Major Dames, a USGS person, suggested that there really is a change in the weather, that we are not experiencing just a cyclical upturn or downturn or however you want to look at it with the weather, that there really is a basic change.
		And I think each new season brings more credibility to that argument.
		I think we're having a weather change.
		Something is drastically changing.
unidentified		Looking for the truth?
unidentified		You'll find it on Coast2Coast AM with George Norrie.
george noory ▲ ● ▼		I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
		I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with al-Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
		This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
		There was a much bigger picture there.
		And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go in Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
		Because it's going to continue.
		We're going to have more and more episodes and more and more involvements in other countries.
		And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
		And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time, on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Would have been, excuse me.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Radio Free America.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, hello there.
unidentified		How's it going, pal?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going.
unidentified		Hey, you know, Dole's not going to get Clinton, but Whitewater might.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think it's going to get Clinton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If Whitewater gets anybody, it's going to get Mrs. Clinton.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
		As a matter of fact, the Journal did a piece today called Non-Denial Pardon.
		And I was talking to my attorney today, and he said Clinton cannot afford to give the denial before the election, but he's probably, I mean, the pardon before the election, but he's probably talking to the McDougalls and Jim Guy Tucker right now saying, slow down, once I'm elected, I'll pardon you guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's good thought.
unidentified		And the bottom line is...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The man would be looking at impeachment if he tried that.
unidentified		Well, it's headed there, even if he gets the election art, I think.
unidentified		But, you know, it's like my dad said, you know, a wounded animal is a lot more dangerous than a healthy one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I look at things in a little different light than you do.
		I think the Republicans are responsible for their own bad present situation.
		In other words, they made the fight between Bob Dole and Pat Buchanan.
		And I know how you feel about Buchanan.
		I'm not going to get into that with you.
		But in my view, Buchanan never Was going to win, and it made it an easy shot for Dole to walk away with the nomination.
		You know, once Buchanan had been demonized properly, and it wasn't a hard job, he even helped.
		It was Dole all the way.
		And Dole is not going to beat Clinton.
unidentified		No way.
		And Pat was a much better debater, and he could have given at least Clinton a good debate.
		But the bottom line is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Chuck, he wasn't going to win.
		And the Dole Camp knew that.
		The Dole Camp was praying for Buchanan as a competitor.
unidentified		Yeah, I don't want to get sidestepped here, but I do want to say this.
		Now, the Journal ran a piece today about what's going down there in Arkansas.
		And that's what's going to get Clinton with the meanest stuff.
		If stars got the courage to pursue it and the Journal keeps doing what they're doing, Clint's going to be, he's going to be in serious trouble.
		But like you said, Whitewater's going to be headed Hillary's direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think so.
		And Chuck, if you look at the convictions that have already occurred, he's going to be testifying in yet another trial.
		The American people have had enough time to digest this.
		And the polling numbers, Chuck, have not changed one digit.
		The bottom line is the American people don't care.
unidentified		The bottom line is the American people deserve Bill Clinton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Thank you.
		You might come to that conclusion.
		The American people don't care.
		They don't care.
		That is verified, underscored by the polling numbers.
		And that's what I conclude.
		The American people don't care.
		Sad?
		Scary?
		But true.
		I was talking to somebody about this earlier today.
		They don't care.
		If you think Ronald Reagan had Teflon, Bill Clinton has Teflon x2.
		You know, the new improved model of Teflon.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Eric.
unidentified		My name is James, and I'm calling from Everett, but my house is about, last time I checked, about two blocks away from a fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James, I'm glad to hear from you, but we're holding this line for Alaska, James.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you very much.
		Have a good morning.
		Until, I don't know, maybe 1.30 or something.
		In other words, about another 40 minutes.
		I'm going to hold the West of the Rockies line for Alaska.
		Some people out in the bush outside Fairbanks have satellite phones.
		A lot of people in Alaska have satellite phones, and they might be able to get through.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		Alan Keys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I beg your pardon?
unidentified		I want to talk about Alan Keynes.
		Where are you?
		I'm in Bakersfield.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, number one, we're holding that line for Alaska.
		I guess you didn't hear me.
		Number two, you have your radio on.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
		Yeah, all right.
		Let's get off of this politics, man.
		Now, I mean, Clinton's done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clinton's done.
unidentified		He's done.
unidentified		Let's face it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, excuse me.
		How do you come to that conclusion?
		What basis do you have for saying that?
unidentified		Let's face it.
		The president, well, the Bucs does stop with the president.
		I don't care if his wife was in charge of those firings.
		She was in the White House, and if she was doing it, anything done in the White House officially is under the president's control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		you're not going to nail this president for those firings you're talking about You talk about the travel office firings?
		Yeah.
		No way.
		They're not going to, even if they did, listen, they're allowed to fire people.
		Now, they're not allowed to use the FBI, misuse the FBI.
unidentified		That's where I think it's going to come back to him.
unidentified		I mean, who controls the FBI?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Supposedly, certainly not the president.
unidentified		Well, no, I mean, well, you know, you take your steps on up.
unidentified		Now, did the Attorney General know about this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure we'll find out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you think that's going to take this president out, you're wrong.
unidentified		I think his Teflon has a little chink in it.
unidentified		I think it has a little chink in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Show me where that's reflected in the polls.
unidentified		You know, I don't take these polls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't believe the polls?
unidentified		No, I don't.
		I'm going to tell you the truth.
		The people I talk to are...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to tell you the truth.
		I do.
		I do believe the polls.
		Yeah, I do.
		Okay, well, we'll see.
		Yeah, we will indeed.
		All right, thank you.
		Yes, I believe the polls.
		I don't believe the polls that support what I think and dismiss the polls that I don't agree with.
		And that's what people tend to do.
		They tend, as we were discussing with Professor Ullman, they tend to grasp and hold on to things that support their point of view, and they're not objective.
		I think, objectively, that unless there is a really big smoking gun that is found, this president is going to be with us for another four years.
		Once again, for about, I'm going to give it 30 more minutes, and we're going to hold the line open for Alaska only.
		I'm particularly interested in hearing from the area where the fire is going on, one outside Anchorage, and from the Fairbanks area, or from anybody who's really out in the bush, because I just saw Arctic Blue.
		Have any of you up there seen Arctic Blue?
		Does that reflect reality in that area?
		And as far as politics goes, I say it again.
		This fight over the Medicare business is ridiculous and meaningless.
		And as far as Bill Clinton is concerned, you know what's coming, and I do too.
unidentified		Four more years.
		I say four more years coming your way.
		We'll be right back.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premiere Radio Networks tonight.
		An encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6, 1996.
		I'm so excited.
		And just say hi.
		I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I want to.
		I want to.
		I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.
		You're listening to our bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks tonight and on your presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This fire is absolutely horrible.
		This fire in Alaska.
		Here's a fact on the subject.
		In your opening remarks this evening, you said you couldn't understand why Alaska was having this horrible wildfire.
		Didn't the snowpack make things wet enough?
		During the past winter, Anchorage, the Anchorage area, did not receive any snow until January, not enough to make the area wet.
		Plus, we've not had any measurable rain this spring.
		There are two highs, one over Fairbanks, one over the southwest area of the state, creating high winds which are fanning the fire.
		Open fires have been banned.
		This fire is totally out of control and burning on more than one front.
		The Parks Highway, one of two main north-south highways in the state, has been closed.
		This is on the north side of the fire.
		More than 150 homes have been lost, 2,000 people evacuated.
		Wasilla is threatened now on the southeast side of the fire.
		One of the biggest problems are the dog mushers having to evacuate with their dogs.
		Where do you put hundreds of dogs?
		The people of the state are tremendous.
		The Red Cross is feeding and clothing people that have been evacuated, and the Salvation Army is feeding the firefighters.
		So much food and clothing has been donated, they've stopped asking for it and now need donations of money to help victims.
		So that's where it's at.
		That's from Chugiak, Alaska, Patricia in Chugiak, Alaska, and I feel very fortunate to have a pipeline to all of Alaska.
		And so we will continue to restrict our West of the Rockies line for a period to Alaska.
		All of Alaska at 1-800-618-8255.
		Everybody else, please hold off.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello there, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm up here in Anchorage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		And we're a few miles away from the fire, but I'm getting the repercussions nonetheless.
		Air quality warnings have been out and kids' activities canceled, soccer games and end-to-school picnics.
		And we have an area called Hillside where houses are built way up high on the hill.
		And looking out of those houses this morning, normally you can see the city.
		And I mean Tuesday morning.
		But looking out, all you could see was a big blanket of smoke.
		You couldn't see the city at all.
		And the sun shines through this smoky sky, just like an orange ball.
		It's real weird.
		It smells like you're about 10 feet away from a campfire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, from what I can hear of the conditions, it's dry.
		You haven't had enough moisture.
		Didn't have enough snow.
		Didn't have enough rain.
		And this is just the beginning of the fire season, and this one's totally out of control.
unidentified		It's real bad.
		It's real bad.
		And earlier you were talking about, you know, strange weather and weather changes.
		And there's a big group of people up here that probably feel the same as I. Very definitely could be something to do with HAARP.
		The testing going on up there is unbeknownst to the public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Well, you know, whether it does or does not have something to do with HARP, people are going to blame it on HAARP.
		You can be damn sure of that.
		I mean, weather control was part of what effect a lot of people believe HARP could have.
		So even if it's not responsible, this really weird twist in the weather is definitely going to get blamed on HARP.
unidentified		Well, you know, and that's good.
unidentified		I mean, blame or no blame, it's that the awareness that's coming about about HAARP, and you need to be really, really congratulated on all you've done to help that awareness get out because public knowledge of things that our government is having control over and the awareness is the only thing that's going to save us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I thank you, and our wishes and our prayers are with you.
		Believe me, I know what your area is like.
		Thank you.
		I lived there.
		I lived actually in Smenard, in Anchorage, and worked for the affiliate that now carries me there, K-E-N-I.
		Alaska is a hard place to explain to people who have never lived there.
		In fact, impossible.
		Even watching Arctic Blue, which I thought was a really, really good movie.
		Boy, what a sleeper that was.
		Even that, although it gave you a hint of what Alaska is about, you just cannot imagine what this state is like until you have been there.
		The wilderness, the majestic, incredible vistas of it's just an amazing place, and I can't find the words to really explain it to you except that I was there, so I know about it.
		And to imagine an out-of-control wildfire in Alaska this early in the year is scary.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		I'm in Anchorage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		We're having small fires around Anchorage in some places, and smoke's going all the way down to Kenai.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I've heard, yes.
unidentified		And let's see.
		All you can see is smoke, and I'm wondering if I can give you a few phone numbers here.
		Not over the air, but any way I can give some to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, there really is no way.
		I'm the only one here at the moment.
		I've got a couple of phone numbers.
		I've got a phone number of a place about 10 miles south of the fire line Right now, which I may call.
		Okay.
		So I appreciate the offer, but there's no way to do it.
		You know, it's a one-man band here.
unidentified		Yeah, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Alaska.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, yeah.
		Good evening, Art.
		Dan and Laughlin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Hey, do you wear the Art Bell watch?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I do.
		Actually, there's nothing like it.
		Have you seen it?
unidentified		No, I haven't, but I can imagine what it looks like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet you can.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Quick question about GMX.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		We're all human and we need minerals, like you said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Now, do we need chlorine and lead and all that, too?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		We don't.
		Oh, we don't, and that's why we offer the countertop filter.
unidentified		Oh.
unidentified		Okay, because GMX doesn't filter anything, does it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't filter anything.
		That's not what it does.
		That's not how it conditions.
		It simply fixes the minerals so that they're changed and they don't stick to things as they otherwise normally do.
		And if you doubt that, as I say in the commercial, go look at your shower head or wash your car and look at the white salt.
unidentified		I was just wondering if it filters the bad also with the good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, it doesn't filter anything.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But then, again, other chemical processes used, the normal ones, to condition water, don't either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They simply change it by adding salt.
unidentified		I see.
unidentified		So to get the chlorine, you need another filter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To get the chlorine out, you need a filter, is correct?
unidentified		Correct.
unidentified		Thanks a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you bet.
		Take care.
		No, it's just used to condition water against all those things that you would normally want conditioned water for.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Art.
		Good morning, sir.
		Where are you?
		Reno.
		Reno, we're holding this line, sir, open for Alaska, but I appreciate the call.
		Until about the bottom of the hour, we're holding the West of the Rockies toll-free line open for the state of Alaska, particularly in the fire-affected areas.
		it's a horrible thing going on up there right now.
unidentified		Now we take you back to the night of June 6th, 1996, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing.
unidentified		You know, I got two things.
unidentified		You know, when last week when your wife had that attack, and they had to put a different radio, a tape program on, do you think that you could put a program on that's a little bit older that maybe some of us haven't heard before?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, instead of one that was available.
		As a matter of fact, that particular program that was put on, sir, was one that did not air the previous Friday.
		That was from about the middle of the week or something, the previous week.
		And actually, I joined the show live at 2 a.m., so it was only three hours.
unidentified		Yeah, I missed that part.
unidentified		The other thing I wanted to talk about was that I was watching on TV they got that skeleton out of the sea in Malaysia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see a photograph or a picture of the skeleton?
unidentified		Yeah, it was on TV.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did it look like?
unidentified		It looked horrible.
unidentified		It had a great big Tyrannosaurus Rex type head and a 20-foot spine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They said it looked kind of like a dragon.
unidentified		Yeah, I guess a dragon skeleton might look like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think I'd be happy to pull something like that out of the water.
unidentified		Why did it take him six hours to pull this out of the water?
unidentified		It didn't look that huge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I don't have that answer.
		Maybe the photographic scale fooled you or something, but they said it was incredibly hard to get out of the water.
		And as you say, it took about six hours.
unidentified		Well, it didn't look that huge.
		It was just the spine and the head.
		As I remembered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have absolutely no answer for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just, you know, I read the Reuters story, and you're ahead of me because you've seen the photographs.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, there's a video out on it somewhere, so maybe you'll see it someday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Thank you.
		I'll look forward to that.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Whoops, would have been.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
charlie in unknown ▲ ● ▼		Charlie, liberal in California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
charlie in unknown ▲ ● ▼		Too bad about that fire in Alaska.
		We've got the same kind of type of problems here.
		Let me say, you know something?
		You've had a lot of people comparing Bill Clinton with Ronald Reagan, saying how great Ronald Reagan is.
		I have to say the difference between Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton is that Bill Clinton is the most fiscally responsible president we've ever had, and Ronald Reagan is the most irresponsible president on a fiscal level that we've ever had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't you ever get tired of this?
charlie in unknown ▲ ● ▼		You know something?
		This is what I don't like.
		You conservatives in the 1980s built up this big, giant lie.
		Unfortunately, there are a lot of young people out there who don't understand that, and a lot of people are falling for that.
		Truth is, Ronald Reagan spent a great deal of money for six years of economic growth that the young people are going to have to pay for for generations to come.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Truth is, he built up our military force to the point that the other side gave up Trump.
charlie in unknown ▲ ● ▼		That's a bunch of baloney.
		The other side was going to go out probably.
		Maybe he quickened it by maybe two or three years at most.
		And that's according to military experts who've commented on that situation.
		And he's gotten credit for that that he doesn't deserve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Had we continued to go in the other direction.
		Wait a minute now.
		Had we continued to go in the other direction, had the Carter plan for disassembly of the CIA and military continued, well then I'm sure the other side, instead of deciding to crumble, would have decided to face.
charlie in unknown ▲ ● ▼		They did not decide to crumble.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they did.
charlie in unknown ▲ ● ▼		I'm in the intelligence field, and I can tell you that probably at least 12 years before the Soviet Union went down, you had the CIA saying that they had a few years left, and that was it.
charlie in unknown ▲ ● ▼		Whether we spent money on the military or not, that's how it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea.
charlie in unknown ▲ ● ▼		That's just one of the biggest things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had no idea that customs people were privy to that kind of international intelligence.
unidentified		I'm not speaking to a lot, but let me say that the bottom line is this.
charlie in unknown ▲ ● ▼		Ronald Reagan is responsible for these deficits that we have now because he was absolutely irresponsible.
		His own people told him, if you do this, you're going to cause major, major deficits.
		And he told his own people to get lost.
		Bob Dole, who's running for the Republican nomination, fought him on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Charlie, right now, the big debate, which is a non-debate about Medicare, is a bunch of absolute crap on both sides.
		I said on both sides.
		The real truth is Medicare is not going to survive, period.
		And both sides are afraid to say it.
charlie in unknown ▲ ● ▼		Well, the truth is that we need Medicare.
		And I think the elderly people who are listening to this program should keep one thing in mind.
		When you press that lever for Bill Clinton or Bob Dole, think, is a Republican, and you know the record of Republicans, are they really interested in saving Medicare?
		Are the Democrats, the Liberals, are they interested in saving Medicare?
		Your future depends on it, and I think they're going to make the right decision and vote for the Democrats.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, goodbye.
		That's a total load.
		It's a total load.
		Both sides know damn well privately that Medicare cannot be saved.
		So you're talking about an extension of or a difference of a couple of or even a few years one way or the other.
		But what both sides are not telling you is Medicare ultimately, absolutely, positively, cannot and will not be saved.
		But nobody's going to talk about that.
		So if you want to listen to this partisan, narrow-minded, rhetorical baloney, go right ahead.
		But I'm telling you the truth.
		I'm telling you that both sides aren't discussing the real problem with Medicare.
		It's hardly even worth talking about, frankly.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay.
unidentified		Every time I hear him, Art, I just can't believe he thinks what he says.
		But that Charlie's a nice one.
		The real devil's seed.
		The demon's seed.
		You got that right.
		I'm coming from South Carolina.
		I'm on my way home from work.
		I was listening to you on 1100 3WE.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, oh, in Cleveland.
unidentified		Yeah, I get it out here in South Carolina pretty loud and clear.
		And now I'm switched over to 910 Spartanburg, South Carolina, W O R D. Yes, sir.
		Steve, and I haven't heard you much lately, but I haven't worked nice much lately.
		But I tune in.
		I hear this thing, Cupa Copra.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I'm on the phone.
		I'll have to hear you what you tell me after I hang up, but I just, I don't know what it is.
		I've heard you give some kind of facetious answers to people about it eating 400 people and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was a joke.
unidentified		I know, I know, but I'll.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad to tell you what I know, sir.
		Listen on the air.
		The chubacabra is, I believe, some sort of creature, and I don't know exactly what it is, but it has something, has killed about 2,000 animals.
		And whatever you may hear or read, the truth of the matter is that there have been a number of autopsies done, many autopsies done on animals that have been killed by this creature.
		The autopsies show the bite marks in the neck, typically on the outside, two large bite marks, and then on the inside, four marks.
		The blood has been drained from these creatures.
		The chupacabra is not a bat, and I don't want to get gross with you here, but bats bite necks and then lap up the blood.
		They do not, as a vampire would, suck the blood.
		This creature, this chupacabra, or whatever you want to call it, or imagine that it is, does that, or something out there is doing that.
		It began with reports as far back as a couple of years ago in Puerto Rico, then began to be reported in South America, then Central America, now border states, including California, Arizona, Texas, and other areas.
		So there is something to this.
		How much there is to it, I don't know.
		Somebody sent me what purports to be a photograph of a chupacabra.
		It is the only one I know of.
		It may be real.
		It may be a fake.
		I don't know.
		It's on the webpage.
		There have been drawings by eyewitnesses.
		They too have been scoffed at by zoologists, as has my photograph.
		I didn't take it.
		If you want to see the drawings and the photograph of the chupacabra, which, by the way, are going to be published in our newsletter.
		Otherwise, we get the photographs up on the internet.
		My webpage is www.artbell.com.
		That's www.artbell.com.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Somebody in Kansas City.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		How are you doing today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very well, thank you.
unidentified		I was calling in reference to your gentleman that called earlier.
unidentified		They were trying to ban school prayer in his area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Well, actually, it's been done.
		A federal judge ruled.
unidentified		Well, I personally think it should be.
		But people that want prayer in their schools should really think about what they want.
		Because what's going to happen when they get some little voodoo child in a classroom somewhere that wants to dance around and cut up chickens and stuff?
		Yeah, that sort of thing.
		all the people in this country aren't Christians.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, they're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if there's an area where the vast majority or even all of the people are and they want prayer, this is supposed to be the land of the free, home of the brave, and all that sort of thing.
unidentified		That's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So why not let people have what they want?
unidentified		That's true, but they better make really sure that they know what they want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just think one uniform law that says, no, you can't have this, is as wrong as the opposite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in the end, if it were up to me, I would leave it up to localities and states.
unidentified		That's true.
		I agree.
		Well, that's all I had to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you for saying it, and good morning.
		That's just me.
		And I'm not sure of the efficacy of one person going to court and preventing an entire community or a whole group of people from having what they want.
		In other words, if you have 99.999% people who want prayer in school in their area and you have one person, one person, who says no and goes to court and then a court rules against virtually all of those people, I'm not in favor of that.
		I'm also not in favor of forcing anybody's religion down your throat.
		So somewhere in the middle, I've always thought there should be some common ground.
		What do you think?
		Common ground.
		Freedom.
		Liberty in America.
		Is that a workable concept for you?
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
		Coast AM from June
		Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
		6th, 1996.
		Thank you.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired June 6th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, everybody, and here's a fax from Alaska.
		Kind of interesting.
		I was talking about the movie Arctic Blue.
		It's kind of a sleeper running on the pay channels now.
		You get a chance to see it.
		See it.
		It's all about the bush country in Alaska, the kind of people that live out there.
		And here's one of them who just sent me a fax.
		Don't know about Arctic Blue, hasn't seen it, but I can tell you this, about this homesteader.
		The nearest lake to land, about six miles away.
		The nearest road, 30 miles.
		Wasilla and the fire, about 100 miles away from me.
		An hour flight from Anchorage over pure Alaskan bush.
		Rule number one.
		You come on land, you get one warning shot.
		Rule number two, you come on my land and take my game, you're dead.
		No questions asked.
		No answers wanted.
		That's from one person out in the bush there.
		And this person needs to see, or maybe doesn't need to see Arctic Blue because it was kind of about his exact type.
		Up to the state of Alaska, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, Art.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
		You're where?
		In Anchorage?
unidentified		In Anchorage, yeah.
		Yes, sir.
		Pretty scary here.
		I wouldn't advise anyone who's making any travel plans to come up here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it doesn't sound like its normal self.
unidentified		No, it's the winds.
unidentified		If the winds die down, which it doesn't look like, it's pretty unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what's really scary is it's so early in the season.
unidentified		Well, the weather's been screwed up all year long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, without rain, what's it going to be like mid-August?
unidentified		Right, it's not going to get any rain.
		It's the winds are too high, and it's just blowing it out.
		It's almost uncontrollable.
		They don't know what to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm hearing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uncontrollable.
unidentified		And they've got scare in their voices, and that's not good.
unidentified		One more thing, aren't you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, what is the forecast now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know?
unidentified		Forecast is they say the winds might die down in a couple days, but right now they're not.
		man a couple of days more of this yeah there are i think that they're not saying we could just call their voices are under it down at local radio that there are I just moved up here six months ago, so I'm not really sure where that is.
		All right.
		Hey, one more sec.
		How come Charlie got the call in on that line?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What line?
unidentified		I know west of the Rockies line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He wasn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was on a wildcard line.
unidentified		Oh, he was?
		Yeah.
		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Take care.
		I don't, when I restrict a line, I restrict a line.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in North Mississippi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		What's your opinion on this prayer deal about our judge here, federal judges overturned our school prayer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm aware of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that eventually all of this had better get turned back to the states and localities for what they want to do or people are going to get restless.
unidentified		All right.
		Because I went to one of the schools in that county and, you know, for years, you know, we just had prayer and we didn't think nothing twice about it.
		And, I mean, in that county, you found possibly 52 churches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Listen, I agree with you, sir.
		And I just said it.
		You asked for my opinion.
		There it is.
		I'm aware that it was overturned, that there's not going to be prayer there.
		And I'll tell you something.
		In this country, we're going to have to learn that different states and different localities have very different feelings about things.
		And when one person can file a lawsuit and get 99.99% of the rest of the people to do something they don't want to do or prevent them from doing something they do want to do, it's eventually going to lead to trouble.
		You know, restless trouble.
		That's what I have to say about it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, Arn, I think you may have a solution to your problem, but it's a good news, bad news solution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not even sure what problem you're talking about.
unidentified		Well, the devil's seed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the devil's seed.
unidentified		You mail them to Charlie Liberal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Now, he'll plant those.
		They grow up.
		They have this horrible meat by shaman.
		This, in turn, will attract a chocabra.
		But that's the problem, because not even a chocabra is going to swallow the stuff that Charlie hands on.
		So instead, it swallows Charlie.
		That is the bright side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		All right, sir.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		So there you have it.
		Charlie Bait for Chupa.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, this is Mike from Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Mike.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		First of all, I'd like to wish you a happy 6696.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, I got a fax about that earlier today.
		There's a bunch of stuff going around on the internet.
		Here it is, 36 is 6696.
unidentified		Yeah, I suppose.
unidentified		Also, you were talking about Tim Leary the other night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Timothy Leary, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, there's another guy that's quite interesting, and he was an acquaintance of Dr. Leary's, Robert Anton Wilson.
unidentified		I'm sure you know who he is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I do.
unidentified		And he would seem to be an interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, maybe I'll pursue that.
unidentified		Yeah, because he's got a lot of different ideas, pretty much all-encompassing, really.
unidentified		And one other thing, could I make a prediction?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Okay, well, over the winter, I had a dream of a tornado in my area of Michigan.
		The Grand Blanc area, actually, which would be a little south of me.
		I live in Flint, Michigan.
		But I predict it will happen before the end of the month because the dream I had, I was standing out on my balcony looking towards the south, you know, towards the Grand Blanc area, and I see a giant funnel cloud.
		I've never had a dream like this before.
		It was pretty clear.
		I've never claimed to be psychic or anything, but I will give a time limit toward the end of this month because I'm not going to be living where I'm living.
		I'm moving to Detroit at the end of this month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'll hear us on the big monster in Detroit then.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, WGR.
		Yeah, right now I'm listening to you on the one out of Flint.
		You're on until 6 out here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
		Listen, I'm going to have the best dream interpreter I ever have talked to is Dr. Pepsi Toger.
		And we're going to have her on Friday night, Saturday morning.
		So you should call then.
unidentified		All right, that'd be fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, she really is quite good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we'll talk to you then.
unidentified		All right, thanks a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		I've never heard such a good dream interpreter.
		Usually, I scoff at that kind of thing.
		I scoff.
		But she was awfully good.
		Boy, she really was very, very good.
		Now, that interview is dependent on the flow of news.
		You know, if they move in on the Freeman or if something awful happens between now and then, we will reschedule it.
		So it's obviously dependent on our ability to go ahead and break away from what has not been exactly what I would call a heavy news time.
		But if we do run it, you're really going to enjoy it.
		She really is something.
		She doesn't give stock answers.
		She doesn't give stock answers at all.
		And a lot of times, she's telling people what they don't want to hear as opposed to what they want to hear.
		Which to me is impressive because usually these kinds of people are always telling people exactly what they want to hear.
		It's sickening to listen to.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		No, you're not.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Hello.
		Going once.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Is this Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
unidentified		Oh, this is Scott in Anchorage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Scott.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I've been trying to get through for quite a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here you are.
unidentified		Yeah, talking about that fire.
		I guess part of the problem why it's spreading so easy is the type of trees that are burning.
		Their branches grow right down to the ground.
		So the brush is burning.
		It hits them trees.
		It just continues to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the wind.
unidentified		And the wind.
		Yeah, the wind's helping a lot.
		It blew it.
		They said today that it actually blew across one portion of a lake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		And, yeah, with the wind and the, you know, when the fire shoots up the tree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the embers, flaming embers just take off.
unidentified		Yeah, and it kind of picks up, you know, a lot of momentum.
unidentified		It comes up off the top of the tree and then through the air and lands in another spot and away it goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It actually jumps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's horrible.
unidentified		Yeah, and it's gone across, they said the park highway is closed, and it's going across, it jumped across that road.
unidentified		But and then the other problem is the humidity right now is, I think today it was 16%, and yesterday it was about 13%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to be kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the kind of level of humidity that we have here in the desert.
unidentified		Yeah, it's been real, real dry, and that's just, that's, you know, we have relatively low humidity most of the time.
		but uh...
		extremely low yes i think that they're doing with Yeah, I had to spend some time down southern Arizona.
		It was hot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we all wish you folks well up there.
unidentified		Yeah, I guess by tomorrow they expect to have about 1,100 people on the fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know they're flying them in from all over now.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, they've brought up some from Idaho and I had heard they were going to take some out of Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you all getting regular bulletins on this on the radio up there?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, we get it a lot on the local radio and the news.
unidentified		You know, on T V has been running, you know, special things showing you, telling you what's going on, whatnot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, know that our thoughts are with you, my friend.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care, Alaska, once again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		This is Patrick in Nashville, Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing, Patrick?
unidentified		I'm fine.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very well.
unidentified		I used to live out in Las Vegas.
		I always got tickled when I heard Perump talked about.
		Yes.
		I was fascinated when I heard Ed Daines or Danes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Major Danes, yes.
unidentified		Major Daines.
		My father was in the, or is in the Air Force.
		He's a major in Okinawa.
		And I used to ask him about alien crafts at Nellis Air Force Base.
		That's where he was stationed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he would always get mysteriously quiet.
		And I was wondering if there is still any activity out there, because we used to hear things about objects crashing north of Las Vegas, and they would send the Air Force out there.
		Is there still any of the activity going on out there?
		I was out there about 10 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		do you hear anything in the desert That's mysterious quiet you just heard.
unidentified		Just like my father, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't honestly think I can talk about this kind of thing, do you?
unidentified		No, I understand you're in a compromised position, Art.
unidentified		I appreciate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate your understanding, sir.
unidentified		I wonder when if you can narrow down when Ed Major Dames might be on your program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what is today anyway?
		It's Wednesday night, Thursday.
		Maybe I'll give him a call tomorrow, and we'll see what comes up.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Keep up the good work, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and take care.
		Maybe I'll give him a call tomorrow.
		You know, I'm almost reluctant to.
		What he said scared the hell out of me.
		You want me to be honest with you?
		scared the hell out of me.
unidentified		I have this...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have this inner sense that he's dead on the money.
		And that what we're seeing right now is just a precursor.
		That's what I think.
		This weather?
		Normal?
		No way.
		A precursor, what the major said, maybe.
		Could be.
		Would be if what he said is ahead.
		I just, I have this feeling.
		And so it scared me.
unidentified		The End Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast2Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price, just 15 cents a day when you sign up for one year.
		The package includes podcasting, which offers the convenience of having shows downloaded automatically to your computer or MP3 player, and the iPhone app with live and on-demand programs.
		You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		Just think, as a new subscriber, over 1,000 shows will be available for you to collect, enjoy, and listen to at your leisure.
		Plus, you'll get streamed and on-demand broadcasts of Art Bell, Somewhere in Time Shows, and two weekly classics.
		And as a member, you'll have access to our monthly live chat sessions with George Norrie and special guests.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit CoastToCoastAM.com to sign up today.
		Now we take you back to the night of June 6th, 1996, on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, again, I have been talking far less or even been, I guess I would say, interested far less in politics lately.
		And I've got a lot of company out there.
		And I've been sort of trying to decide why that is of late.
		And I think I do know the answer.
		I consider Clinton inevitable.
		I consider Dole hopeless.
		I consider the issues meaningless, particularly Medicare.
unidentified		It's the latest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Both of these parties are lying their butts off about Medicare.
		They're lying.
		And so whatever debate is taking place right now about Medicare is shallow and false and not even worth devoting time to.
		And I think I see precisely what's going to occur with this election.
		Maybe it'll get hot.
		I don't know, but I don't see how.
		I don't see a whole lot of hope that real issues are going to be discussed.
		Bob Dole's walking around saying it's not going to be an issue of character.
		That's the only issue that Mr. Clinton is really even vulnerable with regard to right now.
		That's all.
		He's not going to even argue the issue.
		The whole thing is hopeless, in my opinion.
		Hopeless.
		And I think what we're going to have is four more years of Bill Clinton.
		So I guess I just, I haven't been, I'm not motivated politically right now.
		Plain not motivated.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		This is Eagle River.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eagle River, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man, it's been a while since I heard your voice.
unidentified		Yeah, I figured I'd take the opportunity, Art, since you were keeping this line open for Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
unidentified		Hey, listen, did you know that this forest fire is in the Bible?
unidentified		I bet you didn't know this forest fire was in the Bible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, where?
unidentified		Well, it's in Revelation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think this is part of the end, do you?
unidentified		It's called the Big Lake of Fire.
unidentified		We have Fire Lake and we have Big Lake and we have a Big Lake of Fire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you do.
		You know?
		how close is it to Eagle River?
unidentified		Oh, maybe, I don't know, about the way that the eagle flies.
unidentified		Not the way the crow flies, but the way the eagle flies, maybe about 15 or 20 miles, maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine then that your skies, depending on the wind, have been pretty dark.
unidentified		It hasn't been too bad around Eagle River.
unidentified		It was actually worse than Anchorage, they tell me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I'd be worried about is, you know, since the wind is so horrible and apparently keeps changing direction, you guys have got to keep a very close eye on it.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah, I don't know, Art.
		I don't know if I want to get close enough to it to keep an eye on it.
		It might singe my feathers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what I meant.
unidentified		But I know what you mean, Art.
		But anyways, to me, all this stuff that's going on, and I'm considered some kind of a nut because this nation is under a curse, all the curses, because they don't know where Israel is.
		They think Israel is in Palestine and Israel is in Christ.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir, and so the end times, and they're with your fire.
		Well, this nation is in trouble.
		The soul of this country is wounded.
		What did I read?
		An article an hour ago about a 16-year-old raping a one-year-old, which is now in the hospital.
		And I can pick those stories day by day by day.
		Actually, I can't even ignore them anymore.
		I used to just put them aside.
		I just was.
		And there are so many of them now.
		And collectively, it adds up to me to a nation that is in very serious trouble.
		Very serious trouble.
		What I call the quickening.
		It's real.
		First-time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Got you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's true.
unidentified		I don't believe it.
unidentified		Now, listen, I'm a first-time caller on this show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		But I'm the guy from years ago who was on the New York Thruway with a guy who couldn't smoke cigarettes, remember?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you've called before.
unidentified		But that was when you were in Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well.
unidentified		But what I wanted to tell you now is I finally got through.
		Listen, with this Troopacabra, did you ever hear of Colin and Janet Board?
		They wrote a book called Alien Animals and many other good books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
unidentified		Well, they would be great guests on your show because they have the best documented book on alien animals I've ever read.
unidentified		Janet and Colin Borde.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can you have a documented book on alien animals?
unidentified		Well, I'm saying there's so many of them, but this was the best one I've ever read, and it was hard to get after a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you have any contact information for them, pass it on.
unidentified		Now, listen, don't hang up on me yet.
		I'm using my three minutes here.
		Michael Talbot listened to a book called The Holographic Universe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, never heard of it.
		Thank you for the call.
		There is no guaranteed three minutes.
		So I don't know where you came up with that.
		That was then, This Is Now.
		That also, by the way, was a very, very good movie.
		That was then, This Is Now.
		It's actually a movie called that.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hey, Arval.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		How you doing?
		Fine.
		The other night when you was having that discussion about same-sex marriages.
		Oh, yes.
		I've been trying to get in.
		I want to know, you say you really don't know which way you'd go on that if it was your family?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if it was a family member, I have no fixed, easy answer for you.
		And, you know, I've thought about it since we did that show.
		I still don't have a fixed, easy answer.
unidentified		Okay, well, you know, I understand that you're not for it, really, but you're not for a sample.
unidentified		Okay, what if you had a daughter and she wanted you to give her away?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a same-sex marriage?
unidentified		Yeah, because whenever you give your daughter away...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, we've got to go because we're at the top of the hour here, but my answer is the same.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have no fixed answer.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from June
		Coast to Coast AM from June 6, 1996.
		6, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from June 6, 1996.
		You're listening to Arkbell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		Live Overnight Talk Radio because this radio station cares enough for you to have it on.
		Now, from Wasilla, Alaska, Bonnie says, front firefront line, we are exactly three miles from the fire line, about halfway between Wasilla and Big Lake.
		We will most likely be one of the next areas to evacuate.
		The sky glows red.
		Ash falls all around our home.
		The car is packed and we are pacing the floor.
		The winds have changed from south to southeast to north, making the fire go in a big circle.
		Imagine a letter C with the opening facing up.
		We are in the opening of the sea, and the sea is the fire.
		Carload of people on the road now, carrying all they can pack.
		Their faces are dazed and show fear.
		The fire is uncontrolled and raging.
		That's from Bonnie in Wasilla, Alaska.
		So I imagine they're up late tonight with us in Alaska, and we are praying for you all.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Oh, this is wonderful.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I have lupus.
unidentified		I've had it for years and years and years, and you are the most marvelous man in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm glad we keep you company.
unidentified		Yes, you do every night.
		Every night.
		And I wish we got you till 5 o'clock, but we don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, actually?
unidentified		Okay, I'm actually in Oklahoma, but listening to KFH out of Wichita.
unidentified		And last night I was very interested in your program where the fellow was wanting to tax the churches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was an amazing program, actually.
unidentified		I've never been quite as interested as I was last night because I am not a Mormon, but I am a reorganized Latter-day Saint.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reorganized.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Have you ever heard of that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not specifically.
unidentified		Okay.
		According to what I was taught when I was a child, I am not able to go now, of course, because I'm ill and I've been away from Wichita into Oklahoma for so many years, and I would have to drive, like, over 100 miles to get to church and back.
		But I'm disabled and can't do anything now.
		But anyway, I did not realize that the Mormon Church believed that they cannot ordain a black person.
		Is that true?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was apparently true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was about 20 years ago, and that's what led to the, I guess, the whole controversy that you heard about last night, yeah.
unidentified		Well, now we claim Joseph Smith is our leader, not Brigham Young.
		Okay.
		But I've never heard that in our church.
		And we also do not married in the temple so that we will be married to our spouse in heaven.
		I don't know if you know anything much about the Mormon Church, but they do do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't say that I know a lot about it, no.
		Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed the show.
		It was a very unusual program.
		It was a very unusual program.
		I have never had quite such a chain of coincidences occur, and I guess that's occurring as we get a larger audience.
		It was just absolutely amazing.
		To hear from his niece and then from the black man that he ordained that began the whole mess, all in the same show was a little much.
		I said it last night.
		It almost seemed like intervention, you know, from somewhere or another.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		Greetings from Kale Southernland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be Alaska.
		That's a ham call in Alaska.
		Where are you in Alaska?
unidentified		Juneau.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Juneau?
		Excellent.
		That would be KINY, Juneau.
unidentified		Right.
		Yes, sir.
		2800.
		You bet.
		Yeah, I think the fires are an unfortunate thing up in northern Alaska, and it's a real shame.
		And it's going to put a toll on the tourist season up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to do that, and maybe more.
		I'm beginning to wonder, with the forecast the way it is for the next couple.
		Well, I'll tell you, if this thing keeps raging out of control for two more days, there's going to be tragedy.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		I mean, there's already people losing houses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		And it's a shame.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it that Juno's had more normal weather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You get a lot of rain there in southeast.
unidentified		Right, it's cloudy right now, but it's, you know, it's been quite sunny, you know, a little warm, and, you know, we haven't had as much rain as we usually get, and it's been quite dry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Right.
		Your town, Juneau, is one that I've never been in, and the only way anybody gets to Juneau is either by ship or by airplane, right?
		Right.
		I would like to visit Juneau and will one day.
		It's a very interesting place.
		I've got a very old friend who lives up in Juneau.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, who's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He runs, I don't want to give his name over the air, but he runs a video store up there.
		He moved to Juneau about 20 years ago and started a video store.
		I don't want to give his name over the air.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		You've got your hammer, Yola, that's correct?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
unidentified		Okay, yeah.
unidentified		If you ever come to Juneau, bring your radio and your T-meter and tune in to 14682.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		8-2, huh?
unidentified		In MySOF.
		And the call here is Kales.
		No, no, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't give your call.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend, thank you.
		That's Juneau, Alaska, and K-I-N-Y in Juneau.
		As I say, we're covered right across the state of Alaska.
		Alaska itself is an interesting topic.
		And again, I say, if you get an opportunity, see a movie called Arctic Blue.
		There was a lot to that movie.
		It's a sleeper.
		It's running now on the pay services.
		And it tells you about the real Alaska, the Bush Alaska, way up outside Fairbanks.
		And it was really a good, thoughtful movie, and not at all what you would expect.
		So check it out.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
unidentified		This is Bob from Nashville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Bob.
unidentified		Hi.
		I heard you talking about a movie that you were recommending.
		I was curious about one that you mentioned earlier, you had a script to.
		There's one out now called the Arrival.
		Is that the one you were mentioning, or is it a different one?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I've got the script to ID 4.
unidentified		ID 4?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Independence Day?
unidentified		Independence Day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, the one where the White House blows up?
unidentified		I don't keep track of movies too much.
unidentified		That's why I was asking because sometimes they change the names of them between the time they make them and come out, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, ID 4, just Independence Day.
		Independence Day.
		ID 4.
		Do you know when it's supposed to be released?
		July 3rd.
unidentified		Oh, that's a coincidence.
unidentified		Thank you very much, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sweet.
		Take care.
		I've not yet seen The Arrival.
		That is out now in the theaters, and I'm told it gets quite good reviews by the way.
		Charlie Sheen, contact from an alien civilization, and I guess he plays a guy running a radio telescope when the message comes.
		I saw the making of it, and it looks very good.
		Looks very good.
		I particularly like the part where the guy's knees bend backwards.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Come from I Don't Fall Well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		KID land.
		You bet.
		Hey, I lived to the Yellowstone fires back in 88.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		I worked up in Grand Teton.
		And all I can say for those folks up in Alaska is be prepared for lots of sore eyes and headaches and coughs.
		Sure.
		It's an absolute mess.
		It gets so bad that I imagine the smoke is probably so bad that the sun, you know, it could be clear sky out there above the smoke, but underneath it's just...
		Yeah, sometimes you can't even see it.
		I mean, in the Yellowstone fires.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It must be really weird up there because in Alaska at this time of year, this is what, June 6th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're approaching the longest day of the year where the sun will virtually stay in the sky until midnight.
unidentified		Yeah, that's got to be very strange.
		What are they saying now?
		Somewhere around 45,000 acres or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, something like that.
unidentified		Something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's horrible, and it's moving very fast.
unidentified		Yeah, I remember up in the Grand Teton one night they had what was called, it was like Black Thursday or something, the wind shifted on us, and the fires moved within just a few miles of us, and of course it was the same talk of the evacuation of workers and things there.
		And it just, it became very surreal.
		It became almost so strange that we started almost having a party about the whole thing.
		Hey, if it happens, we'll just run down to the lake, and ash is falling out of the sky, and you have to shake it out of your hair.
		So be prepared for lots of headaches and sore eyes up there.
		It'll happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Thank you.
		It's surreal.
		It is surreal in that kind of a situation.
		And I've been monitoring this from a lot of different perspectives.
		And right now, I'll tell you this weather thing.
		You see, this fire is a result of this weather thing.
		And we live, and I don't want to sound like a tree hugger, I'm not, but we live in a very, very delicately balanced environment.
		I believe that's true.
		And it doesn't take much change to produce a big change, a small effect, a big change.
		And I think that's what we're observing.
		If you wish to believe that this is simply a cyclical weather pattern, that's fine.
		And maybe you'll end up being right.
		I don't believe that.
		I believe there has been a basic, fairly profound, albeit small change, producing a very big effect.
		And the fires in Alaska are certainly the effect of the weather this last year in Alaska, which has not been at all Alaskan-like.
		Having said that, we'll be right back.
unidentified		Streamlink, the audio subscription service of Coast to Coast AM, has a new name, Coast Insider.
		You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
		The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
		You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
		That's over a thousand shows for you to collect and enjoy.
		If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
		Visit CoastToCoastAM.com to sign up.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks tonight.
		An encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yeah, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is Jim from Peoya.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Jim.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can barely hear you, so you're going to have to get into the phone and shout at us.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
unidentified		I said this is Jim from Peoya.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Right.
		Go ahead, Jim.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
		I just wanted to let you know that, you know, everybody's bashing Clinton.
		I think he's one of the greatest presidents we ever had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't spend a lot of time bashing him, but I also don't think he's one of the greatest presidents we've ever had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think that?
unidentified		Well, he's made the economy come back, and he's trying everything.
		It's just these other people just, there's so many people throwing so much mud that it just makes me kind of sick.
		I mean, I don't believe half the things they're saying about him is true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't believe half the things he says are true.
unidentified		Well, yeah, but he makes a lot of mistakes just like anybody else.
unidentified		I mean, he's no perfect man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's mistakes, and then there's simply being disingenuous.
unidentified		But I don't think that he's double-talking on purpose.
unidentified		I think that they're twisting these words around most of the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think it comes naturally.
unidentified		No.
		I just disagree with you.
		I just disagree with you.
		Of course, I'm a Democrat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're welcome To your opinion, of course.
		And I don't think he is evil.
		There's a lot of people who spend all their time bashing him.
		I don't do that.
		He's just what he is.
		He's a product of us.
		He's a guy who'll say anything he needs to say to stay in office.
		And he's the consummate politician.
		He's damn good at what he does.
unidentified		That's a politician in general.
		They just say what they want to just get the people to vote for him.
		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if that's the measure of goodness, then he's good.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, I just, I don't know.
		I just think if he gets in next year, I think that, well, he'll do a little better than he did this year, because I think he's a good president.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, time will tell, as they say.
		Thank you.
unidentified		I like the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		I'm not the Clinton basher.
		I just, I don't, it's not even worth spending that much time on, frankly, that a lot of people do.
		It's just not worth it.
		Clinton is what he is.
		What he does comes naturally.
		He is the mighty Morphin president, the guy who can go in any direction he needs to go, a quintessential politician.
		And so he is just what he is.
		And I don't say that's a trivial matter either.
		What he is is a very electable.
		Talking about electability.
		Oh, he is very electable.
		Because he'll tell you what you want to hear.
		And in modern America, that is the way to get elected, isn't it?
unidentified		It's just a sad fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the exact opposite of Bill Clinton is Bob Dole.
		And that's why my view is he doesn't have a chance.
		Unless there's some magic, some conversion, and it would almost have to be magic in Bob Dole that I haven't seen.
		Or Clinton does himself in.
		That's possible.
		Politically, I mean, of course.
		I mean.
		It is possible something will catch up with the Clintons.
		But barring that, he's going to be our president for another four years.
		Anyway, I'm angry at politics right now.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, how's it going, Ark?
unidentified		My name's Ben, and I'm in San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Ben.
unidentified		I got this buddy Tom in Edina, Minnesota, and he's telling me that now he's hearing reports of the Chupacabra up in Minnesota.
unidentified		How much truth is there to that, Ark?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I haven't heard the report yet of anything as far north as Minnesota.
unidentified		Is that possible?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I've heard Santa Ana.
		As a matter of fact, Santa, California?
		Yeah, that was in the Orange County Register.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Now, I'm not going to lose any sleep here, you know, about this Chupacabra thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you must be, it's, what, 225 in California, so you're losing sleep now.
unidentified		Yeah.
		All right, I don't know what I'm doing up right now.
		But, yeah, so there have been reports in California?
		Many reports.
		Whoa, freaky stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		So, what was I missed?
		What was that guy saying tonight about a book?
		What was he saying?
		He heard proof or something of the chupacabra?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was, well, that can't be, as far as I know.
		I appreciate your call.
		He was saying, he was referring to a book about alien animals.
		We hardly even know about aliens.
		And he was saying documentation of alien animals.
		I don't know how there could be documentation.
		I guess he meant just a book about alien animals.
		That there could be.
		Documentation on alien animals.
		The best we've got is that so far in the Chupacabra, if it's even alien.
		We don't even know it's alien.
		Look, this thing, whatever it is, could have come out of a lab.
		It could have come, you know, the theories range from time portals to dimension jumps to a simple evolutionary quirk to somebody's secret lab somewhere.
		It could be any of the above or none of the above.
		But something's out there, and it's not good.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		No, you're not.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art, calling from Calabasas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Calabasas, yes.
unidentified		Oh, I always get such bad brain lock when I talk to you.
		I've made a few notes.
		I just want to touch on a few subjects that you've been talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		Well, first of all, I noticed that you got your voice distortion gadget, and I like it.
		You better believe it.
		The second thing I wanted to talk about was about the tax-exempt status of the church.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Well, I thought that maybe that caller who called from the IRS could yank the tax-exempt status from the Mormon church, and Mr. Wallace could drop his lawsuit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think our IRS employee had that kind of power.
		He's just, as he said, a contract employee, so he doesn't make policy.
		He just executes it.
unidentified		Well, when his niece Linda finally comes to her senses and renounces her racist pagan religion, she'll know who to turn to because he seems like a pretty good guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ooh, that's a kind of a cheap shot.
unidentified		Aw.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, come on now.
		Take it easy on people, you know?
		Let them have their faith.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		And then one more thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What else?
unidentified		About your same-sex marriage topic?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I was thinking about, you know, the question that you've been posing and I don't know either, but, um, you say, um, you're wondering whether blood is thicker than ideology and...
		Maybe it is, and maybe it's not.
		I don't think it is, but I think that love is.
		Okay, well, listen, I've got to go.
		All right.
		Thanks, Bart.
		See you later.
		All right.
		Bye.
		We'll be right back.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from June
		Coast to Coast AM from June 6, 1996.
		6, 1996.
		Coast to Coast AM from June 6, 1996.
		You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a facts here from Fairbanks, Alaska.
		It's Jeff in Fairbanks, and if my webmaster is listening, Keith...
		Check it out.
		It covers from the North Pole to the North Pacific and includes far eastern Siberia and part of the Yukon Territory.
		And it's a long, typical address.
		It is ftp: forward slash GIS dot L T E R dot Alaska dot E D U forward slash L O R E S space archive forward slash daily space composite dot GIF.
		Good lord.
		So I don't know if those spaces ought to be in there.
		Maybe if you just did a web or a browser search for Alaska, you would come upon it.
		Archive Daily, some sort of search there, you'd come upon it.
		We have got to do something about these addresses that are so long.
		But maybe we can get a copy of this photograph and get it up on our website.
		We'll see what we can do.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Rachel from Anchorage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Rachel.
unidentified		I just had to say something about Charlie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you want to say?
unidentified		California?
		Yes.
		How he said, oh, I feel so sorry to see the Alaskans.
		Anyway, the nation puts a lot of effort out to the earthquakes in California, and I think he can show a little bit of sympathy to us Alaskans up here.
		That's been bugging me for ever since he said it, so I just had to say something.
		I thought that was kind of rude.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Charlie doesn't like Alaskans.
unidentified		I know, but he still should show some sympathy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He doesn't like Hawaiians either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Charlie doesn't like most people, actually.
unidentified		I think that he feels that us Alaskans and Hawaiians aren't really part of the United States.
unidentified		You know, we're way up here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		And because Alaska is generally a conservative place, I think that affects his liberty.
unidentified		He being a liberal.
		Yeah.
		You know them liberals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
unidentified		I just want to say also that one of the worst things about the fire that I feel bad for are the families who don't know if their house is burned down or not because they can't say anything about specific structures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		So I think that the worst part would be waiting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's bad, but being in its path is worse.
unidentified		much worse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Thank you very much.
		Sure, it's bad.
		And when they get going this fast, this is out of control.
		It's really frightening.
		really, really frightening.
		These kinds of fires are You're helpless in its path.
		Man is helpless in its path.
		And for all the good we can do with firefighting, when nature is really out of control and the conditions are right and the winds are bad, you can't stop it.
		You just got to get out of its way.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Ark.
unidentified		This is Ed in Simlin, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Three quick things.
		First about the Alaska fires.
		I wonder if the HARP Project might have gotten to the weather and don't know about that.
		and also about the demon feed.
		I've studied plants and so forth, and I sort of believe it, but then when he says that the fruit is like meat or meat itself, that kind of puts me off because...
		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is true.
		There is a plant exactly like that, a real plant.
		It's not science fiction.
		It's not somebody's story.
		There is really such a plant.
unidentified		Oh, and they have pictures of it and so forth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Well, just I hope they don't make any hamburgers out of them, some of them from fast food.
		But one last thing.
		Have you heard of the author David Irving?
		No.
		Well, you had, was it William Pierce on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, he's not like William Pierce exactly, but I just read a column, a national columnist, his last name is Cullen, but I can't remember his first name, in today's paper saying that David Irving wrote a book that claimed that Joseph Goebbels was actually the instigator of the anti-Semitic acts in Nazi Germany and so forth.
		And there's been a lot of suppression of his book.
		He was going to have it published.
		This is in England.
		And supposedly the pressure was so much that the book has been banned in effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my experience is the only effect that banning books has is to make people want to read them.
		The underground supplies them.
		Banning books has never worked, never is going to work.
		Can't ban books.
		It has the precise opposite effect.
		It's just like when people get angry at films and they go and they protest films and they march up and down in front of a theater.
		People are then dying.
		Even if it's a lousy film, you know, it doubles the box office.
		It's not a good tactic.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Arn, how's it going?
unidentified		Hold on, let me get my radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		This is Mark from Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Hey, I heard you been talking about the major vein, and he apparently was on your show for about a half an hour or so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he was.
unidentified		Okay.
		Did you see the Eyes in the Sky little special thing they had on Discovery Channel?
		It's been a whole couple of months ago, I think it was.
		And they had a lot of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it about our satellite cage, satellite series?
unidentified		No, actually, well, yeah, I think they did run a show about the satellites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, I saw that one.
unidentified		But they also had one on the SR-71 Blackbird.
		Right.
		And they also had one about how the CIA, the CIA had done remote viewing experiments and stuff.
		And they had Major Dane and another guy named Ingo Swan on there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		I didn't know if you'd seen that or not.
unidentified		I didn't get to hear what...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to schedule him on the show.
		So it's not that I don't want the major on, it's what he said that scared me.
		And yes, he is widely recognized as an expert in this field.
		A lot of people don't want to believe that, and I don't blame them based on what he's had to say, but yes, you bet we'll get him.
		You know me.
		If it's interesting, we'll get it on the air for you.
		And it certainly is interesting doesn't serve to describe it properly.
		Fascinating, riveting, possibly.
		And because of the message, a lot of people don't want to hear it.
		They get angry.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Jennifer from California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hi.
unidentified		Okay, I have a couple of things, actually.
unidentified		You know how you guys were talking about the media, and then you were talking about banning stuff?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Well, I think that the government, I hate how they try and ban the whole country from knowing the inside information.
unidentified		Like a lot of diseases that are going around, half time we don't even know about it because they feel that they don't want everyone to worry about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		But then again, you know, how are we going to know about things if we're not even informed?
unidentified		I mean, why do they have to pay off the media and everything just to not tell us what's going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think the media is paid off.
unidentified		Well, I mean, a lot of times they're like fished out of telling the whole country about what's going on.
unidentified		I mean, a lot of things you hear, they're just like...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not what...
		It's what they don't say at all.
		In other words, it is censorship by omission.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And these are the reasons that you need to have other information sources.
		One of the best is shortwave.
		If you don't have shortwave, you ought to have it.
		You can listen to Britain, you can listen to Moscow, you can listen to Havana, you can listen to the BBC.
		Well, I said that in Britain.
		You can listen to Canada, Tokyo, and then you'll know what's going on.
unidentified		A lot of times, though, like, because I've been studying the ocean, because that's my major ocean studies.
		Yes.
		And, I mean, I've just found out so many diseases that are running through the whole system of the coastline and everything.
		And we're not even informed of, you know, how the hazardous waste is just pouring out.
		I know it's just a little extreme, but, I mean, it's really frightening to know that razor blades and, like, medicine is just going right by it and landing right in the coastline shores where little kids are playing and we're surfing and everything.
		It's just ridiculous.
		We don't even, we're not, I mean, we're informed to extent, but I mean, all these things are just floating around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Well, look, the reason is simple.
		It's not an insidious plot to keep information from you.
		But the major networks, even CNN to a degree, but certainly the major networks that have 30 minutes of news time every night can only deal with so many topics.
		30 minutes is a very short time indeed.
		And they have to cover the major stories.
		And so there is a whole world of information out there, if you want it, that obviously, not for reasons of specific censorship, because I don't believe that.
		But just because they only have so much time is simply not covered.
		That doesn't mean that you can't get it.
		We live in America.
		It's still a free flow of information.
		Internet is a good example.
		That's another good information source.
		The Internet.
		Wonderful, actually.
		Are you on the Internet yet?
		Do you have a computer?
		If not, you really ought to move in that direction.
		Short wave.
		All of these alternative information sources are available to you.
		So if all you do is sit and watch the evening news, then I guess really, in a lot of ways, you don't have a right To complain, you could complain if these alternative sources were not available to you, but the answer is they are now.
unidentified		We take you back to the night of June 6th, 1996 on Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Hello.
		Hi.
		Anthony from San Mateo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, you're going to have to talk into your phone.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I just wanted to tell you that the woman from Salt Lake City, also, just in case she had a premonition, is that also her religion is from Golab, which is from the Mormons, is from outer space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so are you.
unidentified		It's from the Mormons.
unidentified		from outer space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They The Walking Mental Wounded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Hi, I finally got the nerve to call you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm glad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Albuquerque.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Albuquerque, KLB, the big one in Albuquerque.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		And I want you to go see the movie The Arrival.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm going to.
unidentified		You've got to.
		When you're talking about the weather and how it's getting so hot.
		And even the Chupacabra, when you see the aliens in this, it got me to thinking, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has the Chupacabra made its debut in Albuquerque yet?
unidentified		No.
		Uh-uh.
		I haven't heard anything about it here.
		I saw a report on CNN, oh, I guess about a week or ten days ago.
		And that's about it.
		But, you know, maybe these things are smart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they must be to evade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess one thing is they move reportedly very fast.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		50, 60 miles an hour, and you're not going to be able to easily catch something that can go that fast.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		And they're smarter than we are because we can't really get a picture of them or catch one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I may have a photograph of one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		Yeah, I wish I had a computer.
unidentified		I'm looking forward to the newsletter so I can see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sent the photograph of the Chupa up to the newsletter people today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good.
unidentified		Which newsletter will it be in, this month?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess not this one, but the next.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This one we are going to have a full rendition of the best quality photographs from Richard Hoagland.
unidentified		Oh, wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In color.
unidentified		Yeah, that's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there you are.
		Thank you for calling, by the way.
		Those of you that have been wanting to see the Hoagland pictures have not had access to the internet.
		Guess what?
		They're going in our newsletter.
		And that ought to be shipping out to all of you here shortly.
		If you want to order the newsletter, I keep telling everybody.
		It's called Art Bell After Dark.
		Everything we talk about, everything out on the leading edge, some of the strange and unusual, it's in the newsletter.
		So you should be convinced by now.
		We've been doing this for well over a year now, I guess, haven't we?
		To order the Art Bell After Dark newsletter and get started, simply call 1-800-917-4278.
		1-800-917-4278.
unidentified		Somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got a kind of a promo of what's coming up in this newsletter.
		Ah, yes, here we go.
		In the June edition of After Dark, expect the following.
		A comprehensive eight-page spread on Richard Hoagland, including an article by Hoagland himself, accompanied by 20 key moon photos, key moon photos, both black and white and color, the Brookings report, and much more.
		My commentary on where the presidential race is headed.
		A photo of my mom with my wife Ramona, along with an excerpt of my interview with my mom.
		I did that one night.
		Three color photos of Art's possible Roswell artifacts, accompanied by an extensive explanatory article, an article on the Unibomber, and much more.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		Hi.
		Tim in Denver, Cal Country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, I was just going to tell you this new voice of yours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		If you would have pulled that thing out when we were standing in line in Portland for autographs, that line would have put it out real quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think so?
unidentified		I think so.
		Step up to the line.
		Come now, I'm ready to sign.
		I'd have been back in Denver before my book hits the pool.
		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that the most evil-sounding thing you've ever heard?
unidentified		On this end, you can't believe it.
unidentified		The first couple times I've heard it, it stood a hair up on my arm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's exactly what I intended.
		You see, I try to become what people keep telling me I am.
		They told me I was CIA, so I told them I'm CIA.
		They would say I'm in the Trilateral Commission, so I admit to that.
		Then they would tell me that I'm an internationalist and I love the Fed, so I tell them I worship at the Fed.
		Then they started saying I'm the devil, so I thought, why not become the devil?
		You know what I mean?
unidentified		It's very, very hairy on this end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, talk to you later, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it cost me two hours.
		It took me two hours to get all that hooked up.
		Two hours of intensive hard work to get all that hooked up.
		Because, you know, I wanted it to sound really evil.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Carl up in Palmer, Alaska, next door to Wissilla, where the fire is burning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're close to it then.
unidentified		I just drove through it an hour and 45 minutes ago, through it, not past it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can you tell us?
unidentified		I was on the Parks Highway, and it was burning within 50 feet of the highway on both sides.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		They had firefighters just arriving at the scene, and I then heard on the radio that the highway was closed.
unidentified		This was 30 seconds after I drove through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're one of the last people to come through then?
unidentified		Apparently so.
		It is burning on the outskirts of the small city of Houston.
		You can see the smoke coming up from behind car lots and this sort of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far does that make it from Wasilla now?
unidentified		Houston is next door to Wasilla.
unidentified		So as it's wrapping around the area, it all depends on which way the wind blows and how hard they can fight it in that area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would guess we've got a lot of listeners tonight because they're sure not sleeping.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't be.
unidentified		No, not in this area.
		I've never seen traffic like this.
		This time of night, we were driving down from Denali Park and from the fire on east all the way through Wasilla, Palmer, and east of there where I live, the traffic is quite incredible.
		And this is at 1 in the morning here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are the winds like now?
unidentified		Fortunately, right now, outside where I am, they're still, as we were coming through the fire, there were, I would guess, 5 to 10 mile an hour winds still.
unidentified		They are still predicting more winds, 15 to 20 miles an hour for tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then, of course, the fire itself creates a wind.
unidentified		Oh, yes, definitely.
		I heard someone speaking earlier about it jumping across to the lake, and this is certainly easily done.
		I know that it has jumped a mile or more several times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's horrible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really frightening.
unidentified		We're up to this morning when we left to go on our day trip, it was about 11,000 acres involved.
		When we got back tonight, it was up to, as far as I heard on the radio, 35,000 acres or more.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a break.
		I've got to go.
		I thank you, my friend.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Our prayers really are with you up there.
		That's horrible.
		Absolutely horrible.
		And you're getting the news as it occurs.
		That's it from the high desert.

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