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June 6, 1996 - Art Bell

02:54:44

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Prof. Gerald Uelman - OJ Simpson Investigation

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good morning, good evening, dependent on your time zone across all these many.
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	Virgin Islands.
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	Worldwide on the Internet.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Top of the morning everybody.
	USA Radio Network just reported milk and cookies are more harmful, more likely to give you cancer than secondhand smoke.
	So, milk and cookies in all households, obviously, have got to go.
	Isn't that incredible?
	Milk and cookies.
	Had a few earlier today.
	All right.
	As promised, coming up here shortly, Professor Gerald Ullman, who was O.J.
	Simpson's attorney, one of them, and lessons his book, Lessons from the Trial, which I happen to think is a wonderful title.
	And we'll get to all of that shortly.
	Thanks for watching.
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	Looking for the truth?
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	Let me ask you this.
	What is going on to necessitate this so quickly?
	There seems to be a deadline in their brains and they need to get this done.
	They know their whole new world order is inches from going up in flames.
	So they're afraid of the awakening and they know that their collapse is about to take place because we've been asleep at the switch and we've let incredibly corrupt interests take control of our society.
	Now we take you back to the night of June 6th, 1996, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Well, it was the trial of the century.
	Law professor Gerald Ullman, uh, Professor Ullman was preparing for a sabbatical back on the 16th of June, about a day before my birthday in 1994.
	And three days after the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman, he got a call from Robert Shapiro and said, how about it?
	And I guess he said, OK.
	Professor Ullman was at the epicenter of the trial of the century.
	His position on Simpson's legal dream team, unique, not only an advocate for his client, but also a teacher and a scholar.
	And he is with us.
	This morning or this evening, depending on your time zone, here he is from Central California.
	Professor, welcome to the program.
	Thank you, Art.
	It's good to be with you.
	It's great to have you here.
	You're at the end of a long, grinding book tour, I guess, eh?
	Yes.
	Today was the last day of the tour, so it's great to be home and kind of settle in to relax a while.
	How's your hand?
	I assume you signed a lot of books.
	I did.
	We had a wonderful turnout for the book signings, and met a lot of people who had a lot of questions about the trial.
	Yes.
	The book title, I think, is Wonderful Lessons from the Trial, and it begs the first question, obviously.
	What really are the lessons for the legal system, for society?
	What are the lessons?
	Well, I think there are some lessons for all of us.
	I'm realizing as I travel around the country the extent to which we all saw a different trial.
	I'm even realizing that as I read the books written by the other lawyers and occasionally have to ask myself, were they at the same trial I was at?
	Well, the better question is, were we all?
	In other words, I presume that you reviewed the television coverage, and I'll tell you up front, I was a junkie.
	I was there every single day.
	I rearranged my sleep patterns to see that trial.
	And I wonder if what we saw on television was even a close, accurate representation of what went on.
	Well, it was close enough to create the impression that We were seeing everything the jury saw, and I think that's one reason so many people are ready to say, well, I saw the same thing the jury saw, and I came to a different conclusion, and reject the verdict of the jury.
	But it was an illusion.
	You really did not see the trial that the jury saw, believe me.
	I can offer just one example of that.
	We were all really struck by how the jury was impressed by the view they made of the premises, which was not of course televised.
	How when the jurors walked into O.J.' 's house and saw that the stairway leading up to the second floor and back to his bedroom was covered with white carpet
	And you could just see them almost thinking, well, how could somebody drenched in blood make their way from this door up to that bedroom without leaving a drop of blood on the carpet?
	Right.
	And lots of little things like that, nuances that you just can't pick up from watching the case on television.
	Were you surprised at all at the verdict, the speed of the verdict, and then the verdict itself?
	Well, I certainly anticipated a longer wait for the verdict, but it was because I thought the jury would be more divided than it actually was.
	You know, the criticism of the jury for reaching a verdict so fast really misapprehends the purpose of jury deliberation.
	The jurors don't go into the jury room as 12 empty vessels waiting to be filled as they shuffle through the exhibit.
	They've been thinking about this all along.
	They sat through 10 days of argument and instructions.
	And ordinarily, the first thing a jury does when they go into the jury room is take a vote and see how far apart they are.
	And the deliberations are for jurors to persuade each other.
	But this jury quickly discovered they were not far apart at all and it wouldn't take a lot of persuading to achieve unanimity.
	How do you answer the charges that some jurors were intentionally targeted and eliminated the famous letter and so forth that resulted in Judge Ito dismissing a juror who might have held out for conviction?
	Well, we were actually concerned from the opposite standpoint, that we were losing jurors who we thought would favor acquittal.
	And the question of whether jurors were targeted is a question that was raised by the defense, actually, in the midst of the trial.
	The one juror whose dismissal has been questioned after the trial was actually dismissed for Lying to the judge in an investigation he conducted in the middle of the trial.
	So frankly, I'm really surprised at how much credibility people are putting in her story of how she would have voted and why she was excused.
	I think we tend to grasp at straws that support what we want to believe.
	You know, there's a lot of truth to that, that people have come to a conclusion and They tend to emphasize the portions of the case that support their conclusion.
	I saw that a lot with the commentators.
	It got so you could almost predict what spin they would put on the day's events once you knew how they wanted the case to come out.
	I'll tell you frankly, in the beginning, I very much thought O.J.
	Simpson was guilty, but when I watched the trial, and you got to the point where you had the motion to dismiss because of an alleged Fourth Amendment violation when investigators jumped the fence and all the rest of it, I thought that was a very, very strong case, and I said, you know, guilty or not, as I look at this, I think they've made their case there was a Fourth Amendment violation, and to this day, I believe that.
	Well, you know, from a tactical standpoint, what that motion really revealed was the willingness of police officers to play games with the truth.
	And once we had exposed that, I think it started creating doubts.
	And ultimately, that's, I think, where the jury Really had problems with this case.
	It's not that they rejected the science of DNA.
	They just rejected the messengers who brought the evidence into the courtroom and concluded that you really couldn't trust what they were being told by the LAPD.
	So, that planted the seed that resulted in the, you think, in the dismissal in their minds of the DNA evidence, which did really seem quite compelling.
	Well, it was compelling only if you actually believed that each exhibit came from the source that they said it came from, that there had been no contamination, no mixing up of swatches, that everything had been done by the book.
	It was pretty clear, I think especially with the suspicions raised about the The blood that was found on the sock and on the back gate.
	Professor, if you had to do all over again from the day you got the call from Robert Shapiro, would you do it all over again?
	You bet.
	I wouldn't hesitate for a moment.
	As a defense lawyer, you know going in that people will It's true.
	regard you as at some sort of fleas and and uh...
	and you'll have to put up with a lot of the the uh... dislike of your client it it always rubs off on
	the on the lawyer as a law professor i i realized uh... going in that
	this is a case we're going to talk about for the next twenty years true
	every issue that uh...
	that we talk about in courses in criminal law criminal procedure
	evidence uh...
	they were all litigated in this case so it's it's going to be a a wonderful
	teaching tool uh... and to have been right in the middle of it uh...
	uh... just gave me a fantastic perspective Toward that end, was there any precedent, legal precedent, established, do you think, in that trial?
	Well, you know, precedent is established when an appellate court writes an opinion that will be followed by future courts.
	So from the standpoint of the technical meaning of precedent, no.
	But from the standpoint of how this case will affect the behavior of participants in the criminal justice system in the future, I think it's going to have enormous impact.
	And some of the impact will truly be positive.
	I mean, we have seen a real increase in the number of police laboratories seeking accreditation.
	I think police are going to do a better job of training their personnel, and especially as we're kind of on the verge of this new technology of DNA that's going to really have tremendous impact on the future of criminal justice.
	So it was really good, I think, for everyone to get a wake-up call and realize if you're going to use this technology, you've got to gear up so that you can do it right.
	Can you discuss, well, are you representing O.J.
	Simpson in any way in the civil matter that's presently underway, wrongful death suit?
	Well, all the lawyers, I think, are being consulted from time to time as the lawyers handling the civil case prepare it.
	But my direct involvement has been limited to arguing one motion, and that was the Challenge to the punitive damages aspect of the civil case as double jeopardy mm-hmm Well, I'm going to try a question on you, and maybe you can and can't answer it NBC it was several days ago reported that in deposition Marcus Allen said that OJ had called him and asked him to lie for him in suggesting that Marcus had had a
	Well, I think we'll have to see who's lying about that.
	and that or jay was uh... trying to show that in fact he was not uh... wildly jealous and then
	hosted marcus's wedding and all the rest of it
	a marcus denied all this and said oh jay lied well i think uh... we'll have to see who's who's lying
	about that uh... you have to bear in mind that
	uh... there's lots of of uh... motivation uh...
	it to uh... to conceal uh... the relationship if it existed uh... on
	marcus allen's part two and marcus was a very very reluctant
	uh... witness uh... he fought the subpoena when when he was subpoenaed at
	trial so uh... we'll see how that how that all shakes out uh... i i
	would be very uh...
	careful about uh... what
	What stock you put into these leaks of what's coming out of the depositions.
	It's really a replay of what happened at the trial where the plaintiff's lawyers have motives in terms of trying to shape public opinion by leaking selected portions of the evidence without the whole thing coming out.
	And that's what was going on prior to To the criminal trial with the LAPD leaking a lot of information.
	Speaking of reluctance, did your defense team have a terrible time trying to get witnesses to testify because of the public nature of this whole thing?
	A lot of reluctance?
	That's one reason I ultimately concluded that the television cameras were a mistake.
	It really affected the willingness of witnesses to come in and testify for fear of the The notoriety that would accompany their testimony, and other witnesses testified like they were doing a gig.
	I think when the cameras start to have that impact on what actually is going on in the courtroom, that's the time that the cameras should be put out.
	Well, we've got Court TV, but I've noticed in a lot of high-profile cases since, Judges have chosen to not allow TV cameras in.
	Is that a trend that will continue?
	It's certainly a trend up until now, although I think the reluctance may wear off.
	In most cases, there's no reason to be concerned.
	I think it's only a case that attracts this degree of attention that the cameras become like gasoline on a fire and really just exacerbate the problem.
	All right, here's a question I've always wanted to ask somebody of your caliber, and that is, if I were accused of a murder, and I retained you as an attorney to represent me, and at some point, perhaps midway through, you either discovered or I told you that I was guilty, what kind of pressure and ethical dilemma does that bring to bear on you?
	Have you ever had to face that without discussing any specific case?
	Well, I think most criminal lawyers have faced similar kinds of problems.
	The limitation that knowing your client is guilty puts on you is you cannot participate in the knowing presentation of perjured evidence.
	At that point, you couldn't put your client on the stand to Well, that was going to be the next question.
	i didn't do it when when he had told you that uh... that he did do it and it may
	uh... put some limits on what kind of other evidence you can present
	that never became a problem in the in the simpson case so j insisted on his innocence uh... with all of his lawyers at
	all times throughout the proceedings and uh...
	uh... we never really uh... had any reason to to doubt his denial
	well i was going to be the next question in your heart any any doubts nagging doubts now
	you.
	Not really.
	I am still convinced that this was the right verdict and that O.J.
	truly is innocent.
	I found myself persuaded by my assessment of O.J.
	the man.
	In the course of representing him, I concluded this man is not a sociopath and uh... and he's not a very good actor and i think you have to believe he's one or the other uh... to have have uh... performed according to the prosecution scenario uh... how close uh... did the uh... defense team come to putting oj simpson on the stand well if you listen carefully to johnny cochran's uh... opening statement
	uh... you would have bet money that all j was going to testify that's right and
	uh... that was certainly our intention at the time uh... at the case developed uh... we realized we were
	succeeding in focusing the jury's attention on
	on june eleventh uh... armed and june twelfth
	and and away from all of the seventeen-year prior relationship and that's
	where the the prosecution wanted to focus the jury's attention.
	I mean, they started out and they never let up on the attempt to kind of demonize Simpson as a wife batterer and to kind of keep the case in that posture.
	Mistake in strategy, I take it.
	Exactly.
	And we knew that if O.J.
	took the stand At the end of the trial, the prosecutors would spend weeks cross-examining him about that prior relationship.
	In fact, the rumors flew that he had kind of a rehearsal, and I'm sure you would do that sort of thing, and that it went poorly, and that was part of what factored into your deciding not to put him on the stand.
	Truth or not?
	Well, I think the rumor is inaccurate in reporting that he did poorly.
	Actually, he did quite well.
	I think it helped us persuade him as to what the prosecutors would do with the cross-examination because he realized the extent to which they would bear down on the prior relationship.
	Did O.J.
	Simpson, quick answer, generally take your advice or insist on his own road of defense?
	I have to say he is one of the most savvy All right.
	On that note, we've got to pause.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	Rest, we'll be right back to you.
	Professor Gerald Ulman is my guest.
	back in a moment.
	You're listening to Ark Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
	Here's a listen.
	This is a test.
	This is a test.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time, on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM, from June 6th, 1996.
	My guest, Professor Gerald Olman, O.J.
	Simpson's attorney and we'll get back to him in just a moment.
	Now we take you back to the night of June 6th, 1996 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	You know, defense lawyers learn to live with that.
	professor from milo in uh...
	el paso he asks me how does it feel are to be dancing with the devil so
	there you go professor uh... they just they just attach it right to you don't
	think uh... yeah i you you you run into a lot of that and you
	know defense lawyers learned to live with that uh... weren't were in a business
	where we know we're going to be identified uh... with the unpopularity of
	our client Yeah, sort of talk show hosts, believe me.
	Listen, there was a big brouhaha over the use of the so-called race card and it was said that Robert Shapiro got very upset, nearly left the team as a result of it.
	Any truth to that?
	Is that something you can talk about or want to talk about or don't?
	Well, there was never really any I certainly disagree in terms of the criticism of Cochran's closing argument.
	I think that all happened after the trial was over.
	And I think Bob stands alone on that issue.
	I certainly disagree in terms of the criticism of Cochran's closing argument.
	I thought the argument was right on point and what was being played was not a race card.
	It was a credibility card.
	The racial attitudes of Detective Furman were an issue that had to be confronted, it had to be talked about, it had to be squarely faced.
	The burden of proof in a civil trial is quite a bit less.
	Do you have any predictions regarding the outcome of that ongoing trial?
	Well, you know, despite the fact that they will not have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt and they will not have to convince all of the jurors even because in California a civil verdict can be returned by nine of the twelve jurors.
	I think that the probability is that the case will come out the same because there's one big difference on the defense side and that is that O.J.
	will testify.
	And I think his testimony will be quite credible and quite persuasive.
	What mistakes did the main mistakes you think the prosecution made?
	Well, I think that the primary weakness on the prosecution side was an arrogance about the case that they were presenting in terms of really not Anticipating its weaknesses, not digging deep enough to expose the potential problems they were going to run into, especially with Detective Furman.
	There were plenty of warning signs and signals to them that this is a witness who could blow up in their face.
	When that happened, I think they were completely blindsided because they hadn't I've done the work that they should have done to investigate his background in advance.
	Okay, the glove.
	The glove, the glove, the glove.
	And how important a factor was that, the demonstration in court of the glove not fitting and all the rest of it?
	People called up and complained bitterly on the radio, here and everywhere else, that it was an inaccurate demonstration, that the whole glove thing was a farce.
	And how do you respond to that?
	Well, I think the whole thing has been over-emphasized from the perspective of the jurors who have commented since the verdict.
	They really didn't see the glove experiment as pivotal.
	You know, the line that I contributed to Johnny Cochran's closing argument, if it doesn't fit, you must equip... Oh, that was your line?
	Yes, yeah.
	Actually, Cochran's closing argument was a wonderful Like a symphony pulling together a lot of suggestions from all of the lawyers and that's the way Johnny works and he's very good about acknowledging the help that other people have given.
	That line came to me more from the jury instructions than from the glove experiment, although I thought it was a wonderful way to kind of I've reprised the glove experiment as well, but the real gist of it is that the most important instruction the jury was given on circumstantial evidence told them that they have to put all the pieces of the circumstantial evidence together, and if it points to either guilt or innocence, they must go with the interpretation that points to innocence.
	In other words, if it doesn't fit, you must acquit.
	It really summed up the whole approach that we took in the closing argument in terms of the circumstantial evidence.
	The attorneys on your side were so very different.
	You took a very quiet, academic approach.
	Shapiro, Bailey, very different.
	Baryshek, yet different again.
	Johnny Cochran, yet different again.
	It is amazing to me that the defense team, with such differences in style, held together so well, seemingly.
	Well, you know, the difference in style in part reflected the different roles that were assigned to everyone.
	I never addressed the jury.
	My role entirely was to To write the motions and argue the motions with respect to what evidence would be admitted and kept out, and to prepare the jury instructions and argue those.
	So the approach I took was the one that I believe would be most persuasive with the judge, whereas uh... cochran and and check uh...
	where's the task of of persuading the jurors and and getting them to
	uh... come to together to be of one mind and uh...
	uh... i thought uh... the the coordination of their closing argument was uh...
	uh... really good the high point in terms of the fifteen working together i
	thought that the between the two of them they really captured that the heart and mind of the jurors
	I thought we won the case in the closing argument.
	Alright, well again the motion though to dismiss.
	Were you surprised that did not succeed on the Fourth Amendment violation grounds?
	No, I was disappointed but I wasn't surprised because I realized how difficult it is for judges to call police officers liars.
	They will use every device possible to avoid coming to that conclusion, and I think that's one reason that police perjury is so prevalent.
	They regularly get away with it.
	What about Giorgito?
	How would you assess his performance throughout?
	Give Judge Ito an A-plus for the jury selection.
	I thought he handled jury selection in a way that where all of the jurors virtually had been exposed to pre-trial publicity, the lawyers were given enough opportunity on voir dire and through the questionnaire that was administered to really probe the jurors.
	and can be satisfied that they would be able to put aside uh...
	what they had been exposed to uh... prior to trial but it's interesting that that's the one aspect of the
	trial that was not televised and
	it's almost as though judge ito performed best when the camera was not
	on In fact, for me as a viewer, my heart skipped a beat when the day he was prepared to throw television cameras out, and in fact really had done so, and then reversed himself.
	Why do you think he did that?
	Well, actually the arguments in favor of keeping the cameras at that point We're quite persuasive arguments.
	I thought the lawyers representing the media did a wonderful job of really stressing the level of public interest and public concern with this case.
	Ultimately, though, I think the cameras were a mistake.
	But I have to admit, we had some benefits from the camera, too.
	People tend to overlook the fact that, but for the television cameras, there's testimony and witnesses that never would have been found in this case.
	The best example of that from the defense side is Kathleen Bell, a key witness in impeaching Detective Furman, who recognized him when he was testifying on television and said, hey, that's the same A cop, I heard, making all those racist comments five years ago.
	Post-trial, there's been a zillion interviews, most recently with Chris Darden, who was on with Howard Stern and sort of actively not denying an allegation that he had had a relationship with Marsha Clark.
	An intimate relationship with Marsh Clark and laughing it off and suggesting that it, well, yeah, it might have happened.
	What would you say about the professional level of two prosecutors who would become personally involved during the course of a case?
	Well, frankly, I don't even want to comment on that.
	To me, it's just totally irrelevant and I hope they're not using it to promote book sales.
	That's just beneath contempt.
	All right.
	I would like to allow the audience to ask a couple of questions in the time we have remaining.
	So if we might, to the telephones and east of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Ullman.
	Hello.
	Hello there.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Where are you?
	I'm in San Antonio.
	San Antonio.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes.
	Arch, your opening remark to Mr. Ullman was that you were Uh, you know, you were kind of convinced, uh, early on that there was, uh, that, you know, O.J.
	wasn't guilty, and ever since the... No, no, no, no.
	No, no, no.
	I said quite the opposite.
	I... I was early on convinced, in fact, he was guilty.
	Well, since the trial, you've always said that you still think he's guilty, and you... Oh, that is... that is accurate, sir.
	Okay.
	Uh, I had a question for Dr... for Mr. Ullman.
	Yes.
	Professor.
	Professor Ullman?
	Yes.
	I thought he was the lawyer.
	You're both?
	Yes, I teach at a law school and I practice law as well.
	Regarding the blood spot they found on the gate, where they say that OJ, whenever he was walking off from the murder, they said they found the blood stain there.
	How many days did it take to find that blood drop and was it contaminated with that?
	What do they call it, EB something?
	EDTA.
	EDTA.
	Yes.
	That blood was removed from the gate three weeks after the murder, after the crime scene had been washed down.
	And what's most interesting is that the concentration of DNA in that blood spot was higher than any other blood sample that they found.
	And there was traces of EDTA in that blood spot.
	So that was a very, very suspicious... You think it was planted?
	I think it was, yes.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Ullman.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Mark.
	It's an honor, Professor Ullman.
	One quick comment and a couple questions.
	first of all i think it's extremely scary to think that uh...
	uh... or jay has uh...
	proclaimed his innocence the jury has found him innocent uh... the uh... lawyers have definitely stood behind him
	and uh...
	from all indications the man is innocent but however it took a
	a vast amount of uh...
	uh... input from uh...
	a huge team of lawyers to get the an innocent man one thing is
	could one of the lawyers that uh...
	represent represented ojb did him justice?
	Could one lawyer have done him justice?
	This is an interesting question.
	In fact, there's an extension of that question.
	And of course it is.
	Is justice equal in America in the sense that O.J.
	Simpson was able to get you and many others, Professor, because he had the money?
	There's no question but that the resources that he had gave him a significant advantage.
	If someone is indigent and accused of a crime of this nature, of course they can come to the court and say, please appoint an expert to assist in my defense.
	And they'll get a DNA expert, but it'll be halfway to trial before they see that expert.
	And I think the real advantage we had With so many lawyers was being able to get this case prepared for trial very quickly and get our experts on board very early in the proceedings.
	And that really made a difference.
	Was he in effect able to purchase reasonable doubt?
	Is that unfair?
	Yeah, I think it's unfair.
	I think we would have had the same outcome, but it just would have taken a lot longer to get there.
	What worries me is that if we have to admit that money makes a difference, and I think we do, then we have to admit that lack of money makes a difference.
	I'm more concerned about the injustice that occurs when we don't provide a defendant with the necessary resources.
	Within weeks after this verdict came down, Congress voted to defund 20 death penalty resource centers throughout the country.
	And these centers were just doing marvelous work of raising the level of competence of representation for indigents who are on trial for their life.
	And in effect, Congress is saying, we don't want to spend the money that it takes to ensure that That those on trial for their life are well represented, and to me that's just incongruous when everybody says, oh, look at the difference that money made in this case.
	Professor, while we're going down this road, there is presently a death row inmate, and I'm sure you're up on this, who has been, I think, appealing since about 1986 or 7, and Of course, the President, as part of the Anti-Terrorism Bill, signed a new law limiting appeals to one, and then a quick review by a three-judge panel to stop frivolous appeals after that.
	He is challenging that whole thing, claiming it's unconstitutional to limit appeals, and it's going to go to the U.S.
	Supreme Court, where there is going to be, possibly, a constitutional crisis And I guess the issue is, can the U.S.
	Supreme Court be told by Congress what cases it can and cannot hear?
	Is this going to be a crisis?
	Well, lawfully, Congress does have that power to limit the jurisdiction of the federal courts to hear appeals.
	And the real question that's coming up is the application of this law To cases that were in the pipeline before the law went into effect, kind of the retroactive impact of the law.
	So this law will certainly have a significant impact on future cases.
	There are lots of examples of cases where people have been on death row for years before the evidence was finally found to To exonerate them and show their innocence.
	We just had an example of that in Illinois this past year, the case of Rolando Cruz, who spent 10 years on death row before they were able to establish that it was police perjury that put him there.
	And through DNA tests established that someone who confessed to the murder Eight years ago, actually committed it, and the police had spent the last eight years trying to discredit that confession.
	You see then that the court will hold this law to be constitutional?
	I think the present Supreme Court is very much inclined to go along with the whole movement to speed up the review process in death penalty cases.
	All right, Professor, we've come to the end of the hour, and I know you've got to go, and I know you're pooped, and I don't blame you.
	Lessons from the trial, where can people get your book?
	It should be in the bookstores.
	Ask for it if you don't see it.
	It's published by Andrews and McNeil, and it's got my picture on the cover.
	It certainly does.
	How long did it take you to write this?
	Actually, I didn't decide to even do a book until after the verdict came in, so I started writing it in November, and it took about three months of writing.
	When the verdict came down, I was in the midst of writing a play, and I'm equally excited about my play.
	It's going to open in Omaha on June 13th.
	It's a one-man play on the life of William Jennings Bryant.
	Oh, wow, I had no idea you were doing that.
	I'm very excited about it.
	Oh, that is exciting.
	So, you're not exactly retired, are you?
	Well, I like to write, and this was a great opportunity to put it to what I hope is a useful function of helping people understand what really went on in this case.
	Was the O.J.
	Simpson case, Professor, the highlight of your career?
	Well, from the standpoint of being a law professor, the opportunity to be right in the middle of a case that we're going to talk about for the next 25 years... Just about has to be, I guess, huh?
	Yeah, it was a tremendous opportunity.
	Professor Ullman, we're out of time.
	Bless your heart for being here.
	Get a good night's sleep, and thank you.
	Thank you, Art.
	Take care.
	That's Professor Gerald Ullman, O.J.
	Simpson's attorney.
	I'm Art Bell.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6, 1996.
	I hear the drums echoing tonight.
	She hears only whispers of some quiet conversation She's coming in
	Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time
	Tonight's program originally aired June 6th, 1996.
	Good morning, everybody.
	Good to be here.
	Continuing now and moving into open lines in a moment, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	We just did one hour with Gerald Ullman, professor, O.J.
	Simpson's attorney, one of O.J.
	Simpson's attorneys, and I've always wanted to do that, always wanted to talk to that man, and now I have.
	All right.
	Let's cover a few topics.
	And there's not a whole lot in the news, so we're gonna let it kind of, uh, sort of drift this morning.
	Uh, we've got a guest coming up, uh, Friday night, Saturday morning, who I think you're really, really going to enjoy.
	And, uh, that would be Dr. Pepsi, uh, Toger.
	Who interprets dreams, and not in a way that you've heard before.
	If you didn't catch Dreamland, I think you'll enjoy Friday night, Saturday morning.
	The Doctor is very different.
	And what you think a dream means... Well, I'll tell you what.
	It doesn't.
	You'll find out.
	Alaska.
	We have a lot of coverage of Alaska.
	As a matter of fact, like a blanket, we cover Alaska.
	And there's a big fire up there right now, 60 miles north of Anchorage.
	It really is a big fire.
	And reinforcements are being called in.
	150 homes have been destroyed up there.
	37,000 acres have been consumed.
	1,000 people have been evacuated.
	And guess what?
	Investigators tonight are saying they believe fireworks began the blaze.
	Interesting.
	Now that issue for a second aside, Isn't it a bit early for such dry conditions in Alaska?
	Now, I would think that the water from the melt would still be keeping things fairly green and moist, and so I'm very surprised that Alaska is having this much difficulty this early.
	I watched a movie earlier today about Alaska, which I thought was very good, and I'm trying desperately to remember the name of it.
	uh... it was uh... the blue arctic or something like that and it was uh... it was quite well done it was about it was about uh... like i'm gonna say murder i i i guess it was a way in a way a sort of a murder mystery drama type thing that took place uh... away out uh... outside fairbanks and at one point in the movie uh... they actually uh...
	They actually had KFAR and Fairbanks mentioned in the movie.
	I suppose out in the bush, way outside Fairbanks.
	KFAR is about the only thing you can hear.
	That was the setting of the movie, someplace outside Fairbanks.
	And it was really a well-done movie.
	I'm going to have to go into the other room and dig out the name of that movie for you.
	I think a lot of you in Alaska would be interested.
	A lot of you not in Alaska would be interested.
	Alaska, as you know, is a very, very different kind of place, and this movie was not your normal murder mystery.
	It addressed the kind of people that live in Fairbanks, and outside Fairbanks, and way outside Fairbanks.
	And it's a very different kind of world that if you've never lived there, well, it's kind of like the last frontier.
	It was absolutely fascinating.
	There's a big Medicare fight going on.
	As you know, the trustees of Medicare opened their books yesterday, and they said, gee, guess what?
	Medicare is going to go broke by the year 2001.
	That's a year earlier than they previously thought.
	Unless the politicians do something to fix it, the rapid growth must be cut.
	Republicans say the president Vetoed the balanced budget amendment that would have fixed it for a few years.
	The Democrats say the Republicans rejected fixes that both sides had previously agreed about.
	In other words, both sides aren't really doing a damn thing.
	Both sides do not want this as a campaign issue.
	Both sides know the long-term problem for Medicare is actually insoluble.
	And they won't even talk about that.
	They will, no doubt, eventually talk about a short-term fix, because they're going to have to.
	But long-term, it's like our debt.
	It may be past the point of no return, and they know it!
	They know it!
	There are 37 million people On Medicare in America today, that's 1 in 8 over 65 years of age in our country.
	And by the year 2030, 1 in 5 will be over 65.
	And instead of 37 million, there will be 70 million on Medicare.
	And it'll be far past broke.
	So the problem, you see, is insoluble.
	And both sides, I'm not even going to talk about it, they don't want it as a campaign issue, because then they would have to talk about what's really coming.
	So as far as I am concerned, both sides, Democrats and Republicans, in varying degrees perhaps, are being dishonest, lying to the American people.
	Lying by omission.
	If the real truth is this program and all the others are going to be consumed by the increasing interest on the dead, and that is what's going to occur, as well as their own burgeoning costs, then that's what they ought to tell the American people.
	But the American people don't want to hear that.
	They don't want to hear it.
	Did you know that one-third of the $200 billion Medicare money every year is spent in the last year of life?
	The last year of life.
	And one half of that amount, one half of that amount is spent in the last ten days of life.
	The last ten days.
	With exotic machines that keep you breathing, keep your heart beating, even though your brain is never going to recover, they keep it going.
	At great cost.
	Maybe somebody ought to start talking about that.
	What do you think?
	So I'm presently sort of disgusted very nearly equally with both sides on this issue.
	I wonder how you feel about it.
	FBI and a member of the anti-government, Freeman, have held the first face-to-face talks between the two sides in more than two weeks.
	The get-together occurred Wednesday night away from the compound.
	Where members of the separatist group have been holed up since late March.
	A man identified by neighbors as Edwin Clark met with federal agents at a church about a mile from the ranch, which is being used by the FBI as a field post.
	Session lasted just about two hours.
	No word on what was said.
	Afterward, Clark was driven back to the Freeman compound by his wife, who then, get this, left the ranch by herself.
	More stories on the chupacabra.
	Every day.
	More stories.
	The Orange County Register.
	Mythical Chupacabra instills fear.
	Some claim to have seen the monster now in Santa Ana.
	Santa Ana?
	Chupacabra in Santa Ana?
	Now how would the Chupacabra make its way through a densely populated area like Santa Ana without being photographed, printed, identified?
	And you just wouldn't think Los Angeles area would Would be a good place for any chupacabra to hide, but I suppose that it could get out into the hills and not be spotted, I don't know.
	but every day uh... a new and major newspaper is reporting on the two
	comparable looking for the truth
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I think now as we look back we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
	I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with Al Qaeda to do what they did on that horrible day.
	This wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
	There was a much bigger picture there.
	And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go into Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
	Because it's going to continue.
	We're going to have more and more episodes and more and more involvement in other countries.
	And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change and thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
	Coast to Coast AM is happy to announce that our website is now optimized for mobile device users, specifically for the iPhone and Android platforms.
	Now you in streamlined fashion. And if you're a Coast Insider, you'll
	have our great subscriber features right on your phone, including the ability to
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	If you're a fan of Coast, you won't want to be without Coast Insider.
	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up today.
	Now we take you back to the night of June 6th, 1996, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Now, the demon seed.
	I have received more email, more faxes on the Demon Seed.
	The Demon Seed, so-called, nicknamed, we've got to nickname everything it seems, Uh, comes or is on its way from the Seattle area.
	Bill grew this horrible thing in his yard.
	He had to finally hack at it with a hacksaw, and even now doesn't have it under control.
	Claims it is, uh, darn near contacted authorities.
	Was going to contact me.
	Uh, I requested him to, but he doesn't want to be on the air, and I don't blame him.
	This thing was consuming his yard, threatening to consume him, I guess.
	Grew some horrible, ugly meat.
	Meat, mind you.
	So, he's sending me the seeds.
	Why me?
	I have no idea why me.
	I guess it's just my lot in life, whether it's Roswell Parts alleged, or Demon Seeds, as I said yesterday, I fully expect to go to the post office and see some sort of cage.
	There with a full chupacabra banging back and forth waiting for me.
	Dear Art, I have only been in the Washington State area for a couple of months, but I tuned into your radio broadcast recently, heard the disturbing news of the gentleman who found some mystery seeds in his grandfather's lead-lined lock box.
	I'm writing to warn you not to plant them.
	Although I've not been in the area for long, I have in the past been employed at a facility similar to the Hanford Nuclear Plant, and I am aware of ongoing secret research into genetic cloning and radioactive isotope flora experimentation.
	This is taking place at this very moment in nuclear facilities in the Midwest, and I've heard rumors of the same here in Washington.
	For ethical reasons, I had to terminate my previous employment.
	I'm now living incognito here in the great Northwest.
	Art, from what I've heard on your radio program, you seem to be a reasonable man.
	I beg of you, for God's sakes, don't plant this foul Frankenstein offspring.
	If you have any concern for your fellow man, if you have an ounce of care for the environment and the posterity of future generations, if you have even one shred of decency as a human being, then I appeal to your conscience now.
	I will be contacting you in the near future with documentation that will prove the existence of these horrible mutant bastard bean plants.
	Although the researchers involved have the fine goal of feeding starving humanity through scientific advances at heart, nevertheless they have opened up Pandora's box.
	It's a box of horrors, the likes of which Bill has described in his backyard, is only the beginning.
	I hope it's not too late, Art.
	Destroy the killer seeds with fire immediately.
	Don't breathe the fumes.
	You'll be hearing from me soon.
	Signed, Worried.
	In Seattle.
	And then, to give a little credibility to this whole subject.
	Hello, Art.
	About a week ago, I watched a show on Animals of the Occult on the Discovery Channel.
	Guess what?
	They covered several animals that have been admired by several cultures over the centuries.
	Bats, beetles, snakes, etc.
	At one point, they discussed a couple of plants within the topic.
	One was a plant with a large, hideous flower that smelled like rotten meat.
	The plant was used in order to attract flies.
	The flies then, in turn, would transfer pollen from plant to plant.
	Well, I guess they do.
	I always thought that was the job of bees.
	In one of God's unusual miracles, I guess, since this aired before you received your facts about the seeds, I really didn't pay close enough attention to get the name of the plant, but there's got to be someone out there who has it.
	And it goes on and on and on, and email.
	Art, I must also express my opinion as to your course of action regarding meat seeds.
	Which are now winging their way into your sweaty and hesitant palms, I say don't plant them!
	At least not now, anyway, considering what Dames and others have said is in our future.
	I think you should save the seeds for a time when other less hardy plants are unable to survive the harsh environmental conditions.
	You will then be known and remembered as the person who saved humanity from starvation and extinction.
	In the great tradition of Johnny Appleseed, the name Arthur Demonseed Bell will live on
	in the legends of our descendants.
	Let me take a quick break here while I can still keep a straight face.
	I presume these seeds are on the way now, winging their way, the Arthur Bell Demonseed.
	One last note and then we'll go to the phones.
	From Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
	Another quickening story.
	A sixteen-year-old boy, arrested Wednesday, charged with raping a one-year-old girl.
	A one-year-old girl.
	The teenager, whose name, of course, will not be released until he is charged as an adult later this week.
	Had been hiding in neighboring Livingston Parish since the infant was attacked eight days ago.
	According to Kelly, the victim's mother left the baby with her two young sisters and two neighborhood children, including this 16-year-old while running errands.
	When she returned, the infant was bleeding heavily, had bruises on her face and back.
	Child was taken to a hospital, then transferred to Our Lady of the Lake Regional Medical Center for surgery.
	Pediatric surgeon Dr. Faith Hansborough said the baby suffered a very serious degree of physical trauma from the sexual abuse.
	Quote, this is the worst case I've ever seen since I've been practicing.
	If convicted as an adult, by the way, the teenager could be sentenced to death.
	Now, you know, I don't even, I don't, I don't like these stories, and I
	don't know what to do with them except to add them up and sort of just lump them in with everything else that seems
	to be going on.
	Our society is in serious moral ethical decline.
	It is what I choose to call the quickening.
	I'll let you speculate about where it's going Why it is?
	I don't know.
	I truly don't know.
	I just know that it is occurring, and that if we don't do something about it, it is going to get us in one of many ways, and I can't tell you what.
	You know, I am not a prophet.
	I can't tell you that the jet stream is going to come down and visit us with 300 mile per hour winds, or California is going to fall off into the ocean and I just, I'm not a prophet, even though I interview people who say that kind of thing.
	I don't know that kind of stuff to be true.
	It may be.
	What I do know is that I observe by the day that things are worsening.
	Our social interactions, our racism, our hatreds, they're all on the increase.
	And I'm telling you, this is headed towards something.
	You know me in religion, a believer, but still a little skeptical and unsure of a path there, so I don't predict that it's the final days and Christ is going to be coming back shortly.
	I don't know.
	I just know there is something going on.
	It's headed somewhere, and we'd better do something.
	Because it won't be long.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
	♪♪♪ ♪♪♪
	♪♪♪ Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM, from June 6th, 1996.
	Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell.
	Well, well, well, look at this.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
	Good morning everybody, I'm Art Bell.
	Well, well, well, look at this.
	Art, I'm working late, but must, out of frustration, fax this message.
	Your guest, meaning Professor Ullman, is the best example I've heard of a detached, cold, heartless, lost soul.
	He's found not only the nerve to be part of a defense of a very sick killer, but has seen his way clear to profit from the death of Simpson's wife.
	To him I say, spend the blood money from your book knowing you will be ultimately judged for defending this monster P.S.R.
	You have reached a new low in having this creep as a guest.
	That's from somebody named Dexter, not of the flowers.
	Well, you know, I'll have anybody as a guest, and besides that, I don't feel that way about Professor Ullman at all.
	As a matter of fact, I was kind of a fan.
	I thought that his motions were filed articulately, academically, Well argued, and I respect the man greatly.
	And that has nothing to do with what I think about the guilt or innocence of O.J.
	Simpson.
	I very much respect the man.
	I think he's a scholar, and I'm very proud to have had him on the show.
	So, reaching a new low?
	I don't think so.
	As you must have learned by now from listening to this program, I do all kinds of interviews on all kinds of subjects and I don't limit myself or this program to any particular road.
	As a matter of fact, more than ever, lately I've been disgusted, absolutely disgusted with politics and this whole Medicare thing is right at the top of the list.
	As far as I'm concerned, both sides are lying to the American people, flat out lying.
	And I can't get into a debate about the minutiae of political meaningless crap.
	And as far as I'm concerned, this discussion is with regard to political issues for the campaign right now is minutiae and crap.
	I'm sorry.
	But if you look down the line a little bit, there is no solution to the Medicare problem.
	None at all.
	And both sides are not going to talk about it.
	So as far as I'm concerned, pots on both their houses, you know?
	And that's just the way I feel about politics right now.
	I go back and forth and back and forth.
	When I see a real issue, I'll sit here and fight it out like anybody else.
	But I don't see any real issue right now.
	I see rhetoric.
	I see the re-election of Bill Clinton.
	I don't think Bob Dole's going to beat him.
	And now that will bring faxes saying, oh, stop saying that, Art!
	That's what I think.
	If that changes, I'll let you know.
	Right now, the way I see it, Bob Dole is a wonderful guy.
	He's a patriot.
	A hero in the war.
	But he's not going to beat Bill Clinton.
	He's not going to beat Bill Clinton.
	He can barely get a paragraph out.
	He's not a campaigner.
	He's an example of the Peter Principle.
	You know what that is?
	It's when people who are very good in a job, and as a minority and then majority leader, he was very good, uh... rise to a position for which they're not qualified and that is not that he would not be qualified to be president but he's not qualified to campaign against Bill Clinton.
	Clinton's gonna beat him.
	And we're gonna have, and it may be a terrible whoopin' in my opinion.
	One that would bring a majority of Democrats back to the Senate, maybe even the House.
	You try and figure another four years with Bill Clinton.
	So that's my opinion.
	And as far as the political campaign goes so far?
	Totally uninterested.
	And I'm not going to sit here and sponsor an argument, a meaningless argument.
	You know, I'm sure there's big discussions going on elsewhere about Medicare and, ooh, our plan is better and our plan is better.
	They both stink.
	And both of them are lying to us by omission.
	Medicare is going to go broke.
	We're going to go broke, period.
	And they're not even talking about that, at least when we had The Texan in the race, we had a little bit of honesty injected about what was coming.
	Now that's all forgotten, and they're going to argue meaningless minutia.
	Arctic Blue.
	That was the name of the movie I saw earlier today.
	Arctic Blue.
	Has anybody seen that?
	God, that was a good movie.
	It was about Alaska, and it was a sort of a murder mystery.
	But it was about the people who live in the bush.
	Outside Fairbanks, and I would like to hear from some of you up in Fairbanks.
	Was that a fair representation of what it's like once you get away from the big city?
	Fairbanks, which really isn't a very big city in the sense that it's still kind of a frontier location itself.
	But what about once you get out in the bush?
	And I've received this with respect to Alaska as well.
	need help on the fire thing live between wasilla and big lake alaska fires out of control from jim he said my home my friends are in trouble right now so i would like to hear from you are any of you up in that uh... particular area or any of you up in the fairbanks area and kind of get a Try to get an idea of what was depicted in Arctic Blue.
	That was a good movie.
	I forget, it may have been on Cinemax2 or something like that.
	Check your TV guides.
	See if you can catch it.
	So, if you're up in Alaska in one of the two locations, give me a call on our West of the Rockies line right now at 1-800-618-8255.
	Would everybody else on that line for just a little bit hold off?
	I really would like to hear from Alaska.
	I don't know why I'm suddenly obsessing on Alaska.
	The fire, I guess, in the movie earlier today.
	So I'd like to hear from Alaska.
	Everybody else just hold off a little bit.
	Let Alaska get through, if you would, please.
	Let us get a few reports from the fire area.
	It's horrible.
	It's horrible.
	And somebody else wrote and said there just wasn't enough snow.
	And this is June!
	Early June!
	What's it gonna be like in August?
	Early September?
	Phew.
	Awful.
	Really awful.
	So, Alaska, please.
	1-800-618-8255.
	And it was, again, it was kind of heartening to hear, um, in the movie Arctic Blue, the only station heard way outside of Fairbanks was K-F-A-R.
	And my ears perked up at that one.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello there.
	No, you're not.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, I'm calling from Alaska.
	Well, good.
	Where are you in Alaska?
	Right now, I'm in Anchorage, Alaska.
	They've evacuated people from Big Lake, Houston and all that area because the fire, they cannot contain it.
	They put it out.
	The wind shifted.
	I mean, we've got, the wind is not, I mean, Tornado wind.
	Hurricane wind.
	I mean, wind.
	Strong wind is blowing.
	And besides that, the fire makes a bag of wind, too.
	Yeah, so when it gets that far out of control, the only thing you can do is get the hell out of the way, I guess, huh?
	Well, we've had the weirdest winter.
	Remember all the snow in the lower 48?
	Sure.
	You got our snow.
	No, that's absolutely true.
	What happened is the jet stream shifted.
	And instead of sweeping it all over you, it swept it, uh, swept it down here.
	We had an umbrella over Alaska.
	Yeah.
	You got our snow.
	You got our water.
	Then our breakup time, you know, number one, I forgot also because we didn't have snow a week before the Iditarod.
	You know what that is?
	Of course.
	I live there, dear.
	Okay.
	Week before, we got snow for the Iditarod.
	They'd already canceled the, Remember how we usually have the car races and everything?
	They canceled a lot of Iditarod events because of no snow.
	I mean, no snow.
	I remember.
	People were calling up saying there's something wrong with our winter and now it's being reflected in the summer.
	Yeah, we didn't get, you know how, remember during spring you get the rain?
	Yes.
	I think we've had rain three times.
	And I don't mean rain, I mean showers.
	So there really wasn't much of a breakup because there wasn't much to break up.
	No, there wasn't.
	Breakup in Alaska refers to the melt in the spring.
	Well, all right.
	I really appreciate the call.
	Yeah, we need prayers, sir.
	We need prayers bad.
	Well, we'll send them your way.
	Because we do not have the people nor the equipment up here.
	Well, they're bringing in firefighters now from other states.
	That's how serious it is.
	You know how serious it was?
	They waited too long.
	It should have been done instantly, because it's that dry out here.
	Well, to be fair to them, though, they were fooled.
	They actually thought they had it under control, and then suddenly the wind came up.
	Well, see, the wind was already out there, and anybody with brains that's lived up here long enough can tell our humidity's even been crazier than normal.
	I mean, it just has not been regular weather.
	And I don't know, right now, if my home My Justice Cedar home, the only thing I have of over 20 years of marriage, is destroyed or not.
	Because nobody's allowed back in there.
	So you've got a home in the area?
	Yes, I do.
	They're evacuating everybody.
	First, they moved everybody to Big Lake.
	Elementary school and stuff there, which they didn't stay long because the wind changed.
	The wind keeps changing direction.
	And they had to move them out of there.
	They're now in Wasilla.
	And if they don't get a control on it, they're going to be moving them out of Wasilla.
	And now, instead of it going to the south, it's now going to the north.
	Alright, well listen, thank you very much, and we'll take some more reports.
	I want to hold that line for Alaska for a bit here.
	I think we're having a change in weather, folks.
	I really do.
	And I had a report the other day, prior to the discussion with Major Dames, a USGS person, suggested that there really is a change in the weather, that we are not experiencing just a cyclical upturn or downturn or however you want to look at it with the weather, that there really is a basic change.
	And I think each new season brings more credibility to that argument.
	I think we're having a weather change.
	something is drastically changing.
	I'm looking for the truth.
	You'll find it on Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie.
	I think now, as we look back, we can probably say with pretty good certainty that some people in government might have been aware of what was going on and they turned their cheek the other way just to let it happen.
	I also believe that some bigger groups got involved with Al-Qaeda to do what they did.
	On that horrible day, this wasn't just a small group of people who came in and did their thing.
	There was a much bigger picture there.
	And if you see the events that have unfolded since this tragedy occurred, how we've lost rights, how we used it to go into Afghanistan and Iraq, and how it has really not stopped.
	Because it's going to continue.
	We're going to have more and more episodes and more and more involvement in other countries.
	And just mark my word, this planet is going through an incredible change.
	And thank God we've got you here to talk with us about it.
	You're listening to Arc Bell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Would have been, excuse me.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Radio Free America.
	Well, hello there.
	How's it going, pal?
	It's going.
	Hey, you know, Dole's not going to get Clinton, but Whitewater might.
	Well, I don't think it's going to get Clinton.
	If Whitewater gets anybody, it's going to get Mrs. Clinton.
	Yeah, yeah.
	As a matter of fact, the Journal did a piece today's uh... called not denial pardon and i went up i was
	talking to my attorney today
	he said clinton cannot afford to give the denial before the election but he's probably
	that the part before the election but he's probably talking to the book doodles
	in jim guy tucker right now saying slow down once i'm elected up or do you guys
	you know it's it's good thought and uh...
	the the bottom line is that you know even then even after an election
	that would bring on such a firestorm and such a serious investigation and be
	looking at impeachment if you tried that Well, it's headed there, even if he gets the election, Art, I think.
	But, you know, it's like my dad said, you know, wounded animals are a lot more dangerous than a healthy one.
	Well, I look at things in a little different light than you do.
	I think the Republicans are responsible for their own bad present situation.
	In other words, they made the fight between Bob Dole and Pat Buchanan.
	And I know how you feel about Buchanan.
	I'm not going to get into that with you.
	But in my view, Buchanan never was going to win.
	And it made it an easy shot for Dole to walk away with the nomination.
	You know, once Buchanan had been demonized properly, and it wasn't a hard job, he even helped, it was Dole all the way.
	And Dole is not going to beat Clinton.
	No way.
	And Pat, you know, was a much better debater, and he could have given at least Clinton, you know, a good debate.
	But the bottom line is... But Chuck, he wasn't going to win.
	And the Dole camp knew that.
	The Dole camp was praying for Buchanan as a competitor.
	Yeah, I don't want to get sidestepped here, but I do want to say this.
	Now, the Journal ran a piece today about what's going down there in Arkansas, and that's what's going to get Clinton, with the meanest stuff.
	If Starr's got the courage to pursue it, and the Journal keeps doing what they're doing, Clinton's going to be in serious trouble, but like you said, Whitewater's Yeah, I think so.
	And Chuck, if you look at the convictions that have already occurred, he's going to be testifying in yet another trial.
	The American people have had enough time to digest this, and the polling numbers, Chuck, have not changed one digit.
	the bottom line is the american people care the bottom line is art the american people deserve
	bill clinton well all right you know thank you you might come to that
	conclusion the american people don't care
	Take care.
	They don't care.
	That is verified, underscored by the polling numbers, and that's what I conclude.
	The American people don't care.
	Sad, scary, but true.
	I was talking to somebody about this earlier today.
	They don't care.
	If you think Ronald Reagan had Teflon, Bill Clinton has Teflon times two.
	You know, the new, improved model of Teflon.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Eric.
	My name is James, and I'm calling from Everett, but my house is about... Last time I checked, about two blocks away from a fire.
	James, I'm glad to hear from you, but we're holding this line for Alaska, James.
	Okay.
	Okay, thank you very much.
	Have a good morning.
	Until, I don't know, maybe 1.30 or something.
	In other words, about another 40 minutes I'm going to hold the west of the Rockies line for Alaska.
	Some people out in the bush outside Fairbanks have satellite phones.
	A lot of people in Alaska have satellite phones.
	And they might be able to get through west of the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Where are you, sir?
	Allen Key.
	I beg your pardon?
	I want to talk about Allen Key.
	Uh, where are you?
	I'm in Bakersfield.
	Okay, well, number one, we're holding that line for Alaska.
	I guess you didn't hear me.
	Number two, you have your radio on.
	Wow, first time caller on the line.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, let's get off of this politics, man.
	I mean, Clinton's done.
	Clinton's done?
	He's done.
	Now, excuse me, how do you come to that conclusion?
	What basis do you have for saying that?
	Let's face it.
	Well, the buck does stop with the President.
	I don't care if his wife was in charge of those firings.
	She was in the White House, and if she was doing it, anything done in the White House, officially, is under the President's control.
	They're not going to nail this President for those firings you're talking about?
	Wait a minute, you're talking about the travel office firings?
	Yeah!
	No way!
	Even if they did, listen, they're allowed to fire people.
	Now, they're not allowed to use the FBI, misuse the FBI.
	That's right.
	I think it's going to come back to him.
	I mean, who controls the FBI?
	Well, that's a good question.
	Supposedly, certainly not the President.
	Well, no, I mean, you take your steps on up.
	Now, did the Attorney General know about this?
	Well, I'm sure we'll find out, but if you think that's going to take this President out, you're wrong.
	I think his Teflon has a little kink in it.
	I think it has a little kink in it.
	Show me where that's reflected in the polls.
	You know, I don't take these polls You don't believe the polls?
	No, I don't.
	I'm going to tell you the truth.
	I don't.
	The people I talk to are... Hey!
	I'm going to tell you the truth.
	I do.
	I do believe the polls.
	Yeah, I do.
	Okay.
	Well, we'll see.
	We will indeed.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Yes, I believe the polls.
	I don't believe the polls that support what I think and dismiss the polls that I don't agree with.
	And that's what people tend to do.
	They tend, as we were discussing with Professor Ullman, they tend to grasp and hold on to things Um, that support their point of view and they're not objective.
	I think objectively that unless there is a really a big smoking gun that is found, this president is going to be with us for another four years.
	Once again, uh, for about, I'm going to give it 30 more minutes and we're going to hold the line open for Alaska only.
	I'm particularly interested in hearing from the area where the fire is going on, one, outside Anchorage, and from the Fairbanks area, or from anybody who's really out in the bush, because I just saw Arctic blue.
	Have any of you up there seen Arctic blue?
	Does that reflect reality in that area?
	And as far as politics goes, I say it again, This fight over the Medicare business is ridiculous and meaningless.
	And as far as Bill Clinton is concerned, you know what's coming, and I do too.
	Four more years, I say.
	Four more years coming your way!
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	tonight an encore presentation of coast to coast am from june 6 1996
	i'm so excited and i just say hi i know i know i know i know i know i want to hear all the tears in my eyes.
	you're listening to arkbell somewhere in time on premiere radio networks
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
	This fire is absolutely horrible, this fire in Alaska.
	Here's a fact on the subject.
	In your opening remarks this evening, you said you couldn't understand why Alaska was having this horrible wildfire.
	Didn't the snowpack make things wet enough?
	During the past winter, Anchorage, the Anchorage area, did not receive any snow until January.
	Not enough to make the area wet.
	Plus, we've not had any measurable rain this spring.
	There are two highs, one over Fairbanks, one over the southwest area of the state, creating high winds.
	Which are fanning the fire.
	Open fires have been banned.
	This fire is totally out of control and burning on more than one front.
	The Parks Highway, one of two main north-south highways in the state, has been closed.
	This is on the north side of the fire.
	More than 150 homes have been lost, 2,000 people evacuated.
	Wasilla is threatened now on the southeast side of the fire.
	One of the biggest problems are the dog mushers having to evacuate with their dogs.
	Where do you put hundreds of dogs?
	The people of the state are tremendous.
	The Red Cross is feeding and clothing people that have been evacuated, and the Salvation Army is feeding the firefighters.
	So much food and clothing has been donated, they've stopped asking for it and now need donations of money to help victims.
	So that's where it's at.
	That's from Chugiak, Alaska.
	Patricia in Chugiak, Alaska.
	And I feel very fortunate to have a pipeline to all of Alaska.
	And so we will continue to restrict our west of the Rockies line for a period to Alaska.
	All of Alaska at 1-800-618.
	8-2-5-5.
	Everybody else, please hold off.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello there, Art.
	Hi.
	I'm up here in Anchorage.
	Yes, ma'am.
	And we're a few miles away from the fire, but getting the repercussions nonetheless.
	Air quality warnings have been out, and kids' activities canceled, soccer games and end-of-school picnics.
	And, um, we have an area called Hillside where houses are built way up high on the hill.
	Yes.
	And looking out of those houses this morning, normally you can see the city and, um, I mean, Tuesday morning, but looking out, all you could see was a big blanket of smoke.
	You couldn't see the city at all.
	And the sun shines through this smoky sky, just like an orange ball.
	It's real weird still to hear about 10 feet away from a campfire.
	Well, from what I can hear of the conditions, it's dry, you haven't had enough moisture, didn't have enough snow, didn't have enough rain, and this is just the beginning of the fire season, and this one's totally out of control.
	It's real bad, it's real bad, and earlier you were talking about strange weather and weather changes, and there's a big group of people up here that probably feel the same as I.
	Very definitely could be something to do with HAARP.
	The testing going on up there is unbeknownst to the public.
	I know.
	Well, you know, whether it does or does not have something to do with HAARP, people are going to blame it on HAARP.
	You can be damn sure of that.
	I mean, weather control was part of what effect a lot of people believe HAARP could have.
	So even if it's not responsible, this really weird twist in the weather is definitely going to get blamed on HAARP.
	Well, you know, that's good.
	I mean, blame or no blame, it's the awareness that's coming about HAARP, and you need to be really, really congratulated on all you've done to help that awareness get out, because public knowledge of things that our government's having control over and the awareness is the only thing that's going to save us.
	Well, I thank you, and our wishes and our prayers are with you.
	Believe me, I know what your area's like.
	Thank you.
	I lived there.
	I lived, actually, in Smenard, in Anchorage, and worked for the affiliate that now carries me there, KENI.
	Alaska is a hard place to explain to people who have never lived there.
	In fact, impossible.
	Even watching Arctic Blue, which I thought was a really, really good movie.
	Boy, what a sleeper that was.
	Even that, although it gave you a hint of what Alaska is about, you just cannot imagine what this state is like until you have been there.
	The wilderness, the majestic, incredible vistas, it's just an amazing place and I can't find the words to really explain it to you except that I was there, so I know about it, and to imagine an out-of-control wildfire in Alaska this early in the year is scary.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I'm in Anchorage.
	Yes, sir.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	We're having small fires around Anchorage in some places, and smoke's going all the way down to Kenai.
	That's what I've heard, yeah.
	All there is, all you can see is smoke, and I'm wondering if I can give you a few phone numbers here.
	Not over there, but anywhere I can give some to you?
	No, there really is no way.
	I'm the only one here at the moment.
	I've got a couple of phone numbers.
	I've got a phone number of a place about ten miles south of the fire line right now, which I may call.
	Okay.
	So, I appreciate the offer, but there's no way to do it.
	You know, it's a one-man band here.
	Yeah, alright.
	Alright, thank you very much.
	Alright.
	Take care.
	Alaska.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, yeah.
	Good evening, Art.
	Dan and Lachlan.
	Yes, sir.
	Hey, do you wear the Art Bell watch?
	Oh, yes.
	I do.
	Actually, there's nothing like it.
	Have you seen it?
	No, I haven't, but I can imagine what it looks like.
	I bet you can.
	Right.
	Quick question about GMX.
	Yes.
	We're all human and we need minerals, like you said.
	That's right.
	Now, do we need chlorine and lead and all that, too?
	No.
	We don't.
	We don't, and that's why we offer the countertop filter.
	Oh.
	Oh.
	Okay, because GMX doesn't, you know, doesn't filter anything, does it?
	Um, no, it doesn't filter anything.
	That's not what it does.
	That's not how it conditions.
	Uh, it simply fixes the minerals, uh, so that they, uh, they're, they're changed and they don't stick to things as they otherwise normally do.
	And if you doubt that, uh, as I say in the commercial, you know, go look at your shower head or wash your car.
	I was just wondering if it filters the bad also with the good.
	Well, no, it doesn't filter anything.
	Right.
	Uh, but then again, Other chemical processes used, the normal ones to condition water, don't either.
	They simply change it by adding salt.
	I see.
	So to get the chlorine, you need another filter.
	To get the chlorine out, you need a filter, is correct.
	Right.
	Thanks a lot.
	Okay, you bet.
	Take care.
	No, it's just used to condition water against all those things that you would normally want conditioned water for.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning, sir.
	Where are you?
	Reno.
	Reno.
	We're holding this line, sir, open for Alaska, but I appreciate the call.
	Until about the bottom of the hour, we're holding the west of the Rockies toll-free line open for the state of Alaska, particularly in the fire-affected areas.
	It's a horrible thing going on up there right now.
	Now we take you back to the night of June 6th, 1996, on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	You're watching Art Bell.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing.
	You know, I got two things.
	You know, when, um...
	Last week when your wife had that attack?
	Yes.
	And they had to put a different radio, a tape program on?
	Yes.
	Do you think that you could put a program on that's a little bit older that maybe some of us haven't heard before?
	As a matter of fact, that particular program that was put on, sir, Was one that did not air the previous Friday.
	That was from about the middle of the week or something, the previous week.
	And actually, I joined the show live at 2 a.m., so it was only three hours.
	Yeah, I missed that part.
	Uh-huh.
	The other thing I wanted to talk about was that I was watching on TV, they got that skeleton out of the sea in Malaysia.
	Yes.
	Did you see a photograph or a picture of the skeleton?
	Yeah, it was on TV.
	What did it look like?
	It looked horrible.
	Had a great big Tyrannosaurus Rex type head and a 20 foot spine.
	They said it looked kind of like a dragon.
	Yeah, I guess a dragon skeleton might look like that.
	I don't think I'd be happy to pull something like that out of the water.
	Why did it take them six hours to pull this out of the water?
	It didn't look that huge.
	I don't know.
	I don't have that answer.
	Maybe the photographic scale fooled you or something, but they said it was incredibly hard to get out of the water, and as you say, it took about six hours.
	Well, it didn't look that huge.
	I don't think there were any ribs on it.
	It was just the spine and the head, as I remember.
	I have absolutely no answer for you.
	I read the Reuters story, and you're ahead of me because you've seen the photographs.
	Well, there's a video out on it somewhere, so maybe you'll see it Sunday.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you.
	I'll look forward to that.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Whoops, would have been.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Charlie, Liberal in California.
	Yes.
	Too bad about that fire in Alaska.
	We've got the same kind of problems here.
	Let me say, you know something?
	You've got a lot of people comparing Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, saying how great Ronald Reagan is.
	I have to say, the difference between Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton is that Bill Clinton is the most fiscally responsible president we've ever had, and Ronald Reagan is the most irresponsible president on a fiscal level that we've ever had.
	Don't you ever get tired of this?
	This is what I don't like.
	In the 1980s, built up this big, giant lie.
	Unfortunately, there are a lot of young people out there who don't understand that, and a lot of people are falling for that.
	Truth is, Ronald Reagan spent a great deal of money for six years of economic growth that young people are going to have to pay for for generations to come.
	Truth is, he built up our military force to the point that the other side gave up, Charles.
	That's a bunch of baloney.
	The other side was going to go out, probably, maybe he quickened it by maybe two or three years at most.
	That's according to military experts who commented on that situation, and he's gotten credit for that that he doesn't deserve.
	Had we continued to go in the other direction... Wait a minute now.
	Had we continued to go in the other direction, had the Carter plan For disassembly of the CIA and military, continued.
	Well then, I'm sure the other side, instead of deciding to crumble, would have decided to fight.
	They did not decide to crumble.
	Yes, they did.
	I can tell you that probably at least 12 years before the Soviet Union went down, Uh, you had the CIA saying that they had a few years left, and that was it.
	Whether we spent money on the military or not, that's just one of the big... Well, now I had no idea that... That's just one of the big... I had no idea that customs people, uh, were privy to that kind of international intelligence.
	Well, I'm 32 alive, but let me, let me say this.
	The bottom, the bottom line is this.
	Ronald Reagan is responsible for these deficits that we have now because he was absolutely irresponsible.
	His own people told him, if you do this, you're going to cause major, major deficits.
	And he told his own people to get lost.
	Bob Dole, who's running for the Republican nomination, fought him on it.
	Charlie, right now the big debate, which is a non-debate about Medicare, is a bunch of absolute crap on both sides.
	I said on both sides.
	The real truth is, Medicare is not going to survive, period.
	And both sides are afraid to say it.
	Well, the truth is that we need Medicare.
	And I think the elderly people who are listening to this program should keep one thing in mind.
	When you press that lever for Bill Clinton or Bob Dole, Think, is a Republican, and you know the record of Republicans, are they really interested in saving Medicare?
	Are the Democrats, the liberals, are they interested in saving Medicare?
	Your future depends on it, and I think they're going to make the right decision and vote for the Democrats.
	All right, goodbye.
	That's a total load.
	It's a total load.
	Both sides know damn well, privately, that Medicare cannot be saved.
	So, you're talking about an extension of, or a difference of, a couple of, or even a few years, one way or the other.
	But what both sides are not telling you is, Medicare ultimately, absolutely, positively, cannot and will not be saved.
	But nobody's going to talk about that.
	So, if you want to listen to this partisan, narrow-minded, Rhetorical baloney, go right ahead.
	But I'm telling you the truth.
	I'm telling you that both sides aren't discussing the real problem with Medicare.
	It's hardly even worth talking about, frankly.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	How you doing?
	I'm okay.
	Every time I hear him, Art, I just can't believe he thinks what he says.
	But that Charlie's a nice one.
	The real devil's seed.
	You got that right.
	I'm calling from South Carolina.
	I'm on my way home from work.
	I was listening to you on 1100 3WE.
	Yes, oh, in Cleveland.
	Yeah, I get it out here in South Carolina, pretty loud and clear.
	And now I'm switched over to 910 Spartanburg, South Carolina, WORD.
	Yes, sir.
	I haven't heard you much lately, but I've been... I haven't worked nights much lately, but I tune in and I hear this thing, Chupacabra.
	Yes.
	And I'm on the phone.
	I'll have to, you know, hear what you tell me after I hang up, but I just... I don't know what it is.
	I've heard you give some kind of facetious answers to people about it eating 400 people and stuff, but...
	Well, that was a joke.
	I'm glad to tell you what I know, sir.
	Listen on the air.
	The chupacabra is, I believe, some sort of creature, and I don't know exactly what it is, but it has something.
	It has killed about 2,000 animals.
	And whatever you may hear or read, the truth of the matter is, That there have been a number of autopsies done, many autopsies, done on animals that have been killed by this creature.
	The autopsies show the bite marks in the neck, typically on the outside, two large bite marks, and then on the inside, four marks.
	The blood has been drained from these creatures.
	The chupacabra is not a bat, and I don't want to get gross with you here, but bats bite necks and then lap up the blood.
	They do not, as a vampire would, suck the blood.
	This creature, this chupacabra, or whatever you want to call it, or imagine that it is, does that, or something out there is doing that.
	It began with reports as far back as a couple of years ago in Puerto Rico, then began to be reported in South America, then Central America, now border states including California, Arizona, Texas, And other areas, so there is something to this.
	How much there is to it, I don't know.
	Somebody sent me what purports to be a photograph of a chupacabra.
	It is the only one I know of.
	It may be real.
	It may be a fake.
	I don't know.
	It's on the web page.
	There have been drawings by eyewitnesses.
	They too have been scoffed at by zoologists, as has my photograph.
	I didn't take it.
	If you want to see the drawings and the photograph of the Chupacabra, which, by the way, are going to be published in our newsletter.
	Otherwise, we get the photographs up on the Internet.
	My webpage is www.artbell.com.
	That's www.artbell.com.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yes.
	How are you doing today?
	Very well, thank you.
	I was calling in reference to your gentleman that called earlier.
	They were trying to ban school prayer in his area.
	That's right.
	Well, actually, it's been done.
	A federal judge ruled.
	Well, I personally think it should be, but people that want prayer in their schools should really think about what they want.
	Because what's going to happen when they get some little voodoo child You know, in a classroom somewhere, you know, that wants to dance around and, you know... Cut up chickens and stuff?
	Yeah, that sort of thing.
	Well... All the people in this country aren't Christians.
	No, they're not.
	But if there's an area where the vast majority, or even all of the people are, and they want prayer, um, this is supposed to be the land of the free, home of the brave, and all that sort of thing?
	That's true.
	So why not let people have what they want?
	That's true, but they better make really sure that they know what they want.
	I just think one uniform law that says, no, you can't have this, is as wrong as the opposite.
	So in the end, if it were up to me, I would leave it up to localities and states.
	That's true.
	I agree.
	Well, that's all I had to say.
	Alright, well thank you for saying it and good morning.
	That's just me.
	And I'm not sure of the efficacy of one person going to court and preventing an entire community or a whole group of people Uh, from having what they want.
	In other words, if you have 99.999% people who want parent school in their area, and you have one person, one person, who, uh, says no and goes to court, and then a court rules against virtually all of those people, I'm not, uh, not in favor of that.
	I'm also not in favor of forcing anybody's, uh, religion down your throat.
	So somewhere in the middle, I've always thought there should be some common ground.
	What do you think?
	Common ground.
	Freedom.
	Liberty.
	In America.
	Is that a workable concept for you?
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
	This is a video of me playing this song on my phone.
	I'm not a fan of the original version of this song.
	you Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight's program originally aired June 6th, 1996.
	Hello, everybody, and here's a fax from Alaska.
	Kind of interesting.
	I was talking about the movie Arctic Blue.
	It's kind of a sleeper running on the pay channels now.
	You get a chance to see it.
	See it.
	It's all about the bush country in Alaska and the kind of people that live out there.
	And here's one of them who just sent me a fax.
	Don't know about Arctic Blue.
	Hasn't seen it.
	But I can tell you this, about this homesteader.
	The nearest lake to land, about six miles away.
	The nearest road, thirty miles.
	Wasilla and the fire, about a hundred miles away from me.
	An hour flight from Anchorage over pure Alaskan bush.
	Rule number one, you come on land, you get one warning shot.
	Rule number two, you come on my land and take my game, you're dead.
	No questions asked, no answers wanted.
	That's from one person out in the bush there, and this person needs to see, or maybe doesn't need to see, Arctic Blue, because it was kind of about his exact type.
	Up to the state of Alaska, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yeah, Art, how you doing?
	Fine.
	You're where, in Anchorage?
	In Anchorage, yeah.
	Yes, sir.
	Pretty scary here.
	I wouldn't advise anyone who's making any travel plans to come up here.
	Well, it doesn't sound like it's normal self.
	No, it's the wind.
	If the winds die down, which it doesn't look like.
	It's pretty unbelievable.
	Well, what's really scary is it's so early in the season.
	Well, the weather's been screwed up all year long.
	I mean, without rain, what's it going to be like mid-August?
	Right, it's not going to get any rain.
	The winds are too high, and it's blowing it out.
	It's almost uncontrollable.
	They don't know what to do.
	That's what I'm hearing.
	Uncontrollable.
	And they've got scare in their voices, and that's not good.
	One more thing, Art.
	Wait, what is the forecast now, do you know?
	Forecast is... They say the winds might die down in a couple days, but right now, they're not... Man, a couple of days more of this.
	Yeah, they're not saying, but you could just tell on their voices on their local radios that they're... How much danger is Wasilla in?
	I just moved up here six months ago, so I'm not really sure where that is.
	Alright.
	Hey, Art, one more thing.
	How come Charlie got the call in on that line?
	What line?
	I don't know, west of the Rockies line.
	He wasn't.
	He was on a wild card line.
	Oh, he was?
	Yeah.
	Oh, okay.
	Alright?
	Alright.
	Take care.
	I don't, uh, when I restrict a line, I restrict a line.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, how you doing?
	I'm okay, where are you?
	I'm in North Mississippi.
	Yes, sir.
	Uh, what's your opinion on this, uh, prayer deal that our judge here, our federal judge overturned our school prayer?
	Yeah, I'm aware of it.
	Um, I think that eventually all of this had better get turned back to the states and localities, uh, for what they want to do or people are going to get restless.
	Alright.
	Because I went to one of the schools in that county and, you know, for years, you know, we just had prayer and we didn't think nothing twice about it.
	I mean, in that county, you found approximately 52 churches.
	I know, and listen, I agree with you, sir, and I just said it.
	You asked for my opinion.
	There it is.
	I'm aware that it was overturned, that there's not going to be prayer there, and I'll tell you something.
	In this country, we're going to have to learn that different states and different localities have very different feelings about things, and when one person can File a lawsuit and get 99.99% of the rest of the people to do something they don't want to do.
	Or prevent them from doing something they do want to do.
	It's eventually going to lead to trouble.
	You know, restless trouble.
	That's what I have to say about it.
	First time caller online, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, Arnold, I think I may have a solution to your problem, but it's a good-news, bad-news solution.
	Well, I'm not even sure what problem you're talking about.
	Well, the devil's seed.
	Oh, the devil's seed.
	You mail them to Charlie Liberal.
	Yes.
	Now, he'll plant those.
	They grow up.
	They have this horrible meat plush on them.
	This, in turn, will attract a true cacabra.
	But that's the problem, because not even a true cacabra is going to swallow the stuff that Charlie has on them.
	So, instead, it swallows Charlie.
	That is the bright side.
	Yes.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	So there you have it.
	Charlie Bate for Chupa.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, this is Mike from Michigan.
	Hi, Mike.
	Hi.
	First of all, I'd like to wish you a happy 6-6-96.
	Yeah, you know, I got a fax about that earlier today.
	There's a bunch of stuff going around on the Internet.
	Here it is, three sixes, six, six, ninety-six.
	Yeah, I suppose.
	Also, you were talking about Tim Leary the other night.
	Timothy Leary, yes.
	Yeah, there's another guy that's quite interesting and he was an acquaintance of Dr. Leary's, Robert Anton Wilson.
	I'm sure you know who he is.
	Oh, I do.
	And he would seem to be an interest.
	I may, yes, maybe I'll pursue that.
	Yeah, he's got a...
	He's got a lot of different ideas, pretty much all-encompassing, really.
	One other thing, can I make a prediction?
	Please.
	Okay, well, over the winter, I had a dream of a tornado in my area of Michigan.
	The Grand Blanc area, actually, which would be a little south of me.
	I live in Flint, Michigan.
	I predicted it would happen before the end of the month because the dream I had was standing I've never had a dream like this before.
	It was pretty clear.
	I don't claim to be psychic or anything, but I will give a time limit toward the end of this month because I'm not going to be living where I'm living.
	I'm moving to Detroit at the end of this month.
	Well, you'll hear us on the big monster in Detroit then.
	Oh yeah, WGR.
	Right now I'm listening to you on the one out of Flynn.
	You're on till six out here.
	Excellent.
	Yeah.
	Well, listen, I'm going to have the best dream interpreter I ever have talked to is Dr. Pepsi Togar, and we're going to have her on Friday night, Saturday morning.
	So you should call then.
	All right.
	That'd be fine.
	I mean, she really is quite good.
	Oh, really?
	So we'll talk to you then.
	All right.
	Thanks a lot.
	Take care.
	I've never heard such a good dream interpreter.
	Usually I scoff at that kind of thing.
	I scoff.
	But she was awfully good.
	Boy, she really was very, very good.
	Now, that interview is dependent on the flow of news.
	You know, if they move in on the Freeman or if something awful happens between now and then, we will reschedule it.
	So it's obviously dependent on our ability to go ahead and break away from what has not been exactly what I would call a heavy news time.
	But if we do run it, you're really going to enjoy it.
	She really is something.
	She doesn't give stock answers.
	She doesn't give stock answers at all.
	And a lot of times, she's telling people what they don't want to hear, as opposed to what they want to hear.
	Which to me is impressive, because usually these kinds of people are always telling people exactly what they want to hear.
	It's sickening to listen to.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	No, you're not.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello?
	Going once.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	Yeah.
	This Art?
	Yes, it is.
	Oh, this is Scott in Anchorage.
	Hi, Scott.
	Yeah.
	I've been trying to get through for quite a while.
	Well, here you are.
	Yeah, the, um, that, uh, talking about that fire, it's, um, I guess part of the problem why it's spreading so easy is the type of trees that are burning.
	Their branches grow right down to the ground.
	So the brush is burning, it hits some trees, it just continues to go.
	And the wind.
	And the wind, yeah, the wind's helping a lot.
	Blew it, um, they said today that it actually blew across one portion of a lake.
	What?
	And, uh, yeah, it was with the wind and the, uh, you know, when the fire shoots up the tree.
	Yeah, the embers, uh, flaming embers just take off.
	Yeah, and it kind of picks up, you know, a lot of momentum and comes up off the top of the tree and then through the air and lands in another spot and away it goes.
	It actually jumps, yeah, that's horrible.
	Yeah, and it's gone across, they said the park highways closed, and it's gone across, it jumped across that road.
	But, and then the other problem is the humidity right now is, I think today it was 16 percent, yesterday it was about 13.
	You've got to be kidding, that's the kind of level of humidity that we have here in the desert.
	Yeah, it's been real, real dry, and that's just, that's, you know, we have relatively low humidity most of the time.
	But that's extremely low.
	In fact, I think the 13 was... I'm telling you, those are levels we get here in the hot desert, cactus country.
	Yeah, I had spent some time down in Arizona.
	It was hot.
	Yeah, there you are.
	Well, we all wish you folks well up there.
	Yeah, I guess by tomorrow they expect to have about 1,100 people on the fire.
	I know they're flying them in from all over now.
	Yeah, yeah, they brought up some from Idaho and I had heard they were going to take some out of Canada.
	Are you all getting regular bulletins on this on the radio up there?
	Yeah, yeah, we get it a lot on the local radio and the news, you know, on TV.
	It's been running, you know, special things showing you, telling you what's going on, whatnot.
	Well, know that our thoughts are with you, my friend.
	Oh, yeah.
	All right, take care, Alaska, once again.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	This is Patrick in Nashville, Tennessee.
	How you doing, Patrick?
	I'm fine.
	How are you?
	Very well.
	I used to live out in Las Vegas.
	I always got tickled when I heard Pahrump talked about.
	Yes.
	I was fascinated when I heard Ed Danes or Danes?
	Major Danes, yes.
	Major Danes.
	My father is in the Air Force.
	He's a major in Okinawa.
	I used to ask him about alien crafts at Nellis Air Force Base.
	That's where he was stationed.
	Yes.
	Mysteriously quiet.
	And I was wondering if there is still any activity out there, because we used to hear things about objects crashing north of Las Vegas, and they would send the Air Force out there.
	Is there still any activity going on out there?
	I was out there about ten years ago.
	Do you hear anything in the desert?
	That's mysterious quiet you just heard.
	Just like my father, yeah.
	You don't honestly think I can talk about this kind of thing, do you?
	No, I understand you're in a compromised position, Art, and I appreciate that.
	Well, I appreciate your understanding, sir.
	I wonder when, if you can narrow down when Ed, Major Danes might be on your program.
	Well, what is today, anyway?
	It's Wednesday night, Thursday.
	Maybe I'll give him a call tomorrow, and we'll see what comes up.
	All right.
	All right?
	Keep up the good work, Art.
	Thank you, and take care.
	Maybe I'll give him a call tomorrow.
	You know, I'm almost reluctant to what he said scared the hell out of me.
	You want me to be honest with you?
	Scared the hell out of me.
	I have this... I have this inner sense that he's dead on the money.
	And that what we're seeing right now is just a precursor.
	That's what I think.
	This weather?
	Normal?
	No way.
	A precursor of what, uh, the Major said?
	Maybe.
	Could be.
	Would be.
	If what he said is, uh, is ahead.
	I just, I have this feeling.
	And so it scared me.
	And so it scared me.
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	now we take you back to the night of june sixth nineteen ninety six on our
	bills somewhere in time you know uh... again
	i have been talking for a lesser even been i guess i would say
	interested far less in politics lately And I've got a lot of company out there.
	And I've been sort of Trying to decide why that is of late.
	And I do know the answer.
	I consider Clinton inevitable.
	I consider Dole hopeless.
	I consider the issues meaningless.
	Particularly Medicare.
	It's the latest.
	Both of these parties are lying their butts off about Medicare.
	They're lying!
	You know, and so whatever debate is taking place right now about Medicare is shallow and false, and not even worth devoting time to.
	And I think I see precisely what's going to occur with this election.
	Maybe it'll get hot, I don't know, but I don't see how.
	I don't see a whole lot of hope that real issues are going to be discussed.
	Bob Dole's walking around saying it's not going to be an issue of Character.
	That's the only issue that Mr. Clinton is really even vulnerable with regard to right now.
	That's all.
	He's not going to even argue the issue.
	The whole thing is hopeless, in my opinion.
	Hopeless.
	And I think what we're going to have is four more years of Bill Clinton.
	So I guess I just, I haven't been, I'm not motivated politically right now.
	Plain not motivated.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Uh, hello, uh, this is Eagle River.
	Eagle River, Alaska.
	Oh, man, it's been a while since I heard your voice.
	Yeah, I figured I'd take the opportunity, I'm sure, keeping this line open for Alaska.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Hey, listen.
	Did you know that this forest fire is in the Bible?
	I bet you didn't know this forest fire was in the Bible.
	Well, where?
	Well, it's in Revelation.
	You think this is part of the end, do you?
	It's called the big lake of fire.
	Well, we have Fire Lake, and we have Big Lake, and we have a big lake of fire.
	Yeah, you do.
	You know?
	How close is it to Eagle River?
	Oh, maybe, I don't know about the way the eagle flies.
	Not the way the crow flies, but the way the eagle flies, maybe about 15 to 20 miles, maybe.
	Oh my, I would imagine then that your skies, depending on the wind, have been pretty dark.
	It hasn't been too bad around Eagle River.
	It was actually worse in Anchorage, they tell me.
	Well, what I'd be worried about is, you know, since the wind is so horrible and apparently keeps changing direction, you guys have got to keep a very close eye on it.
	Yeah, I don't know.
	I don't know if I want to get close enough to it to keep an eye on it.
	It might singe my feathers.
	Well, you know what I meant.
	But I know what you mean, Art.
	But anyways, Art, to me, all this stuff that's going on, Art, and I consider it some kind of a nut because this nation is under a curse, all the curses, because they don't know where Israel is.
	They think Israel is in Palestine and Israel is in Christ.
	All right, sir, and so the end times, and there with your fire.
	Well, this nation is in trouble.
	The soul of this country is wounded.
	What did I read?
	An article an hour ago about a sixteen-year-old raping a one-year-old, which is now in the hospital.
	And I can pick those stories Day by day by day.
	Actually, I can't even ignore them anymore.
	I used to just put them aside.
	I just was... And there are so many of them now, and collectively it adds up to me, to a nation that is in very serious trouble.
	Very serious trouble.
	What I call the quickening.
	It's real.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	All right.
	I got you.
	Yes, that's true.
	I don't believe it.
	Now, listen, I'm a first-time caller on this show.
	Right.
	But I'm the guy from years ago who was on the New York Highway with the guy who couldn't smoke cigarettes, remember?
	Uh, well, then you've called before.
	But that was when you were in Vegas.
	Well... But what I wanted to tell you now is, uh, I finally got through.
	Listen, with this chupacabra... Yes?
	Did you ever hear of, um, Colin and Janet Bord?
	They wrote a book called Alien Animals and many other good books.
	No.
	Well, they were some great guests on your show.
	They have the best documented book on alien animals I've ever read.
	Janet and Colin Board.
	How can you have a documented book on alien animals?
	Well, I'm saying there's so many of them, but this was the best one I've ever read, and it was hard to get after a while.
	Well, um, if you have any contact information for them, uh, pass it on!
	Now listen, don't hang up on me yet, I'm used to my three minutes here.
	Now did you ever hear of Michael Talbot and his so-called holographic universe?
	Uh, no, never heard of it.
	Thank you for the call.
	There is no guaranteed three minutes.
	So I don't know where you came up with that.
	That was then, this is now.
	That also, by the way, was a very, very good movie.
	That was then, this is now.
	It's actually a movie called that.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hey, Art Bell.
	Hello.
	How you doing tonight?
	Fine.
	The other night when you were having that discussion about same-sex marriages... Oh, yes.
	I've been trying to get in.
	I want to know... You say you really don't know which way you'd go on that if it was your family?
	Yeah, if it was a family member, I have no fixed, easy answer for you.
	And, you know, I've thought about it since we did that show.
	I still don't have a fixed, easy answer.
	Okay, well, you know, I understand that you're not for it, really.
	No, I'm not.
	Okay, what if you had a daughter and she wanted you to give her away?
	In a same-sex marriage?
	Yeah.
	Because whenever you give your daughter away, Yeah, I understand, sir.
	Look, we've got to go because we're at the top of the hour here, but my answer is the same.
	I have no fixed answer.
	You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
	🎵Coast to Coast Amphitheatre Theme🎵 🎵Coast to Coast Amphitheatre Theme🎵 Um...
	🎵Coast to Coast Amphitheatre Theme🎵 🎵Coast to Coast Amphitheatre Theme🎵
	You're listening to ArcBell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a relay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
	Good morning everybody, live overnight talk radio because this radio station cares enough for you to have it on.
	Now, from Wasilla, Alaska, Bonnie says, front Fire front line.
	We are exactly three miles from the fire line.
	About halfway between Wasilla and Big Lake.
	We will most likely be one of the next areas to evacuate.
	The sky glows red.
	Ash falls all around our home.
	The car is packed and we are pacing the floor.
	The winds have changed from south to southeast to north, making the fire go in a big circle.
	Imagine a letter C With the opening facing up, we are in the opening of the sea, and the sea is the fire.
	Carload of people on the road now, carrying all they can pack.
	Their faces are dazed and show fear.
	The fire is uncontrolled and raging.
	That's from Bonnie in Wasilla, Alaska.
	So I imagine they're up late tonight with us in Alaska, and we are praying for you all.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Oh, this is wonderful.
	Art?
	Yes?
	I have lupus.
	I've had it for years and years and years, and you are the most marvelous man in the world.
	Well, I'm glad we keep you company.
	Yes, you do.
	Every night.
	Every night.
	And I wish we got you till 5 o'clock, but we don't.
	Where are you actually?
	Okay, I'm actually in Oklahoma, but listening to KFH out of Wichita.
	All right.
	And last night I was very interested in your program when the fellow was wanting to tax the churches.
	It was an amazing program, actually.
	I've never been quite as interested as I was last night because I am not a Mormon, but I am a reorganized Latter-day Saint.
	Reorganized?
	Uh-huh.
	Have you ever heard of that?
	No, not specifically.
	Okay.
	According to what I was taught when I was a child, I am not able to go now, of course, because I'm ill and I've been away from Wichita and Oklahoma for so many years and I would have to drive like over a hundred miles to get to church and back.
	But I'm disabled and can't do anything now.
	But anyway, I did not realize that the Mormon Church believed That they cannot ordain a black person.
	Is that true?
	Well, that was apparently true.
	That was about 20 years ago, and that's what led to the, I guess, the whole controversy that you heard about last night.
	Well, now we claim Joseph Smith as our leader, not Brigham Young.
	But I'd never heard that in our church.
	And we also do not... We are not married in the temple, so that we will be married to our spouse in heaven.
	I don't know if you know anything much about the Mormon Church, but they do do that.
	I can't say that I know a lot about it, no.
	Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed the show.
	It was a very unusual program.
	It was a very unusual program.
	I've never had quite such a chain of coincidences occur, and I guess that's occurring as we get a larger audience.
	It was just absolutely amazing.
	To hear from his niece and then from the black man that he ordained that began the whole mess, all on the same show, was a little much.
	I said it last night, it almost seemed like intervention.
	You know, from somewhere or another.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Look, greetings from Kailh Thovenland.
	That would be Alaska.
	That's a ham call.
	Right.
	Where are you in Alaska?
	Juneau.
	Juneau.
	Excellent.
	That would be K-I-N-Y-N, Juneau.
	Right.
	Yes, sir.
	800.
	You bet.
	Yeah, I think the fires are an unfortunate thing.
	Oh yeah, I mean, there's already people losing houses.
	season up there. It's going to do that and maybe more. I'm beginning to wonder with the
	forecast the way it is for the next... I'll tell you if this thing keeps raging out of
	control for two more days there's going to be tragedy. Oh yeah, I mean there's already
	people losing houses. Yep. And it's a shame. I take it that Juneau's had more normal weather.
	You get a lot of rain there in the southeast.
	Right.
	It's cloudy right now, but it's been quite sunny, a little warm, and we haven't had as much rain as we usually get and it's been quite dry.
	Right.
	Your town, Juneau, is one that I've never been in, and the only way anybody gets to Juneau is either by ship or by airplane, right?
	Right.
	I would like to visit Juneau and will one day.
	It's a very interesting place.
	I've got a very old friend who lives up in Juneau.
	Oh yeah?
	Who's that?
	He runs, I don't want to give his name over the air, but he runs a video store up there.
	He moved to Juneau about 20 years ago.
	I don't want to give his name away.
	You've got your radio on, correct?
	Correct.
	Yeah, if you ever come to Juneau, bring your radio and your commuter and tune in to 14682.
	8-2, huh?
	Mya's office at... and the call here is Kale's...
	No, no, no, no, no.
	Don't give her a call.
	Oh, okay.
	All right, my friend.
	Thank you.
	That's Juneau, Alaska and K-I-N-Y in Juneau.
	As I say, we're covered right across the state of Alaska.
	Alaska itself is an interesting topic.
	And again, I say, if you get an opportunity, see a movie called Arctic Blue.
	There was a lot to that movie.
	It's a sleeper.
	It's running now on the pay services.
	It tells you about the real Alaska, the Bush, Alaska way up outside Fairbanks.
	And it was it was really a good, thoughtful movie and not at all what you would expect.
	So check it out.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Bob from Nashville.
	Hi, Bob.
	I heard you talking about a movie that you were recommending.
	And I was curious about one that you mentioned earlier.
	You had a script to the there's one up now called the arrival is that the one
	you were mentioning or is it the different one
	no i've got i've got script i d four i'd be for yes uh... independence day
	independence day well i don't know the one where of the white house blows up
	i'd i have i don't keep track of movies too much that's why
	i'll be asking for some kind of change the names of the between the timing
	making them come out you know well i think we're just going to say in my day four
	you know it's not the only uh... july third
	uh... that's a coincidence he had a very much art all right so i think you're i've not
	yet seen the arrival that is out there on the theaters and i'm told it
	gets a quite good reviews uh...
	by the way uh... charlie sheen
	contact from an alien civilization and uh...
	i guess he plays a guy running a radio telescope
	when the message comes i saw the making of it and uh... it looks very good
	Looks very good.
	I particularly like the part where the guy's knees bend backwards.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	You bet.
	I don't fall well. Yes, sir. Hey, I do you bet? Hey, I listen to the
	Yellowstone fires back in 88 right? I worked at the grant econ and
	All I can say for those folks up in Alaska's be prepared for lots of sore eyes and headaches and coughs and sure,
	yeah It's an absolute mess.
	It gets so bad that I imagine the smoke is probably so bad that the sun, you know, it could be clear sky out there above the smoke, but underneath it's just They said the sun was orange.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, sometimes you can't even see it.
	I mean, the yellowstone fires.
	It must be really weird up there because in Alaska at this time of year, this is what, June 6th?
	Right.
	We're approaching the longest day of the year where the sun will virtually stay in the sky until midnight.
	Yeah, it's going to be very strange.
	What are they saying now?
	Somewhere around 45,000 acres?
	Yeah, something like that.
	Something like that.
	Horrible, and it's moving very fast.
	Yeah, I remember up in Grand Teton one night, they had what was called, it was like Black Thursday or something, the wind shifted on us, and the fires moved within just a few miles of us, and of course it was, you know, the same talk of the evacuation.
	of you know workers and things there and it just it became very surreal it became almost so strange that we started almost having a party about the whole thing hey if it happens we'll just run down to the lake and ash is falling out of the sky and you have to shake it out of your hair so let's be prepared for lots of headaches and sore eyes up there it'll happen all right sir thank you I it's surreal it is surreal in that kind of a situation and I've been monitoring this from a lot of different perspectives, and right now I'll tell you this weather thing.
	You see, this fire is a result of this weather thing.
	And we live, and I don't want to sound like a tree hugger, I'm not, but we live in a very, very delicately balanced environment.
	I believe that's true.
	And it doesn't take much change to produce a big change.
	Small effect, big change.
	And I think that's what we're observing.
	If you wish to believe that this is simply a cyclical weather pattern, that's fine, and maybe you'll end up being right.
	I don't believe that.
	I believe there has been a basic, fairly profound, albeit small change, producing a very big effect, and the fires in Alaska are certainly the effect of uh... the weather this last
	year in alaska which has not been
	at all alaskan like having said that will be right back streaming the audio subscription service of coast to coast
	a m has a new name Coast Insider.
	You'll still get all the same great features for the same low price.
	The package includes podcasting, which automatically downloads shows for you, and the iPhone app.
	You'll also get our amazing download library of three full years of shows.
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	Visit coasttocoastam.com to sign up.
	You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
	Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Yeah, hello.
	Yes, sir.
	This is Jim from Peoria.
	Hello, Jim.
	I can barely hear you, so you're going to have to get into the phone and shout at us.
	Yeah, okay.
	This is Jim from Peoria.
	Right, right.
	Go ahead, Jim.
	You're on the air.
	Yeah, okay.
	I just wanted to let you know that, you know, everybody's bashing Clinton.
	I think he's one of the greatest presidents we've ever had.
	Well, I don't spend a lot of time bashing him, but I also don't think he's one of the greatest presidents we've ever had.
	Why do you think that?
	Well, he's made the economy come back, and he's trying everything.
	It's just these other people just... There's so many people throwing so much mud that it just makes me kind of sick.
	I mean, I don't believe half the things they're saying about him is true.
	Well, I don't believe half the things he says are true.
	Well, yeah, but he makes a lot of mistakes, just like anybody else.
	I mean, he's no perfect man.
	Well, there's mistakes, and then there's simply being disingenuous.
	But I don't think he's double-talking on purpose.
	I think that they're twisting his words around.
	No, I don't think he does it on purpose.
	I think it comes naturally.
	No, I just disagree with you.
	I just disagree with you.
	But I'm a Democrat.
	Well, in that case, you're welcome to your opinion, of course.
	And, you know, I don't think he is evil.
	Alright, there's a lot of people who spend all their time bashing him.
	I don't do that.
	He's just what he is.
	He's a product of us.
	He's a guy who will say anything he needs to say to stay in office.
	And he's the consummate politician.
	He's damn good at what he does.
	That's the politician in general.
	They just say what they want to.
	Just to get the people to vote for him.
	That's right.
	Well, if that's the measure of goodness, then he's good.
	Yeah.
	Well, I just...
	I just, I don't know.
	I just think that if he gets in next year, I think that, well, he'll do a little better than he did this year, because I think he's a good president.
	All right, well, time will tell, as they say.
	Thank you.
	I like the program.
	All right, thank you.
	I'm not the Clinton basher.
	I just, I don't, it's not even worth spending that much time on, frankly, that a lot of people do.
	It's just not worth it.
	Clinton is what he is.
	What he does comes naturally.
	He is the mighty Morphin President.
	The guy who can go in any direction he needs to go.
	The quintessential politician.
	And so he is just what he is.
	And I don't say that's a trivial matter, either.
	What he is, is a very electable.
	Talking about electability, ooh, he's very electable.
	Because he'll tell you what you want to hear.
	In modern America, that is the way to get elected, isn't it?
	It's just a sad fact.
	And the exact opposite of Bill Clinton is Bob Dole.
	And that's why my view is he doesn't have a chance.
	Unless there's some magic, some conversion, and it would almost have to be magic in Bob Dole that I haven't seen.
	Or Clinton does himself in.
	That's possible.
	Politically, I mean, of course.
	I mean it.
	It is possible something will catch up with the Clintons.
	But barring that, he's going to be our president for another four years.
	Anyway, I'm angry at politics right now.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, how's it going?
	My name's Ben, and I'm in San Diego.
	Yes, Ben.
	I got this buddy, Tom, and he died in Minnesota.
	And he's telling me that now he's hearing reports of the chupacabra up in Minnesota.
	How much truth does there to that arc?
	I haven't heard the report yet of anything as far north as Minnesota.
	Is that possible?
	But I've heard Santa Ana.
	As a matter of fact... Santa Ana, California?
	Yeah, that was in the Orange County Register.
	No.
	Yes.
	Sheesh, now I'm not going to lose any sleep here, you know, if there's about this chupacabra thing.
	Well, you must be, it's what, 225 in California, so you're losing sleep now.
	Yeah.
	Alright, I don't know what I'm doing up right now.
	But, um, yeah, so there have been reports in California.
	Many reports.
	Whoa, freaky stuff.
	Yes.
	So, um, and what was, now I missed, what was that guy saying tonight about, um, a book or something?
	What was he saying?
	Yeah, he was, and that can't be, as far as I know.
	I appreciate your call.
	He was saying, he was referring to a book about alien animals.
	We hardly even know about aliens.
	And he was saying documentation of alien animals.
	I don't know how there could be a document, I guess he meant a, just a book about alien animals, that there could be.
	Documentation on alien animals.
	The best we've got is that so far in the Chupacabra, if it's even alien.
	We don't even know it's alien!
	Look, this thing, whatever it is, could have come out of a lab.
	It could have come... You know, the theories range from time portals to dimension jumps to a simple evolutionary quirk to somebody's secret lab somewhere.
	It could be any of the above or none of the above.
	But something's out there, and it's not good.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	No, you're not.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art, calling from Calabasas.
	Calabasas, yes.
	Oh, I always get such bad brain lock when I talk to you.
	I've made a few notes.
	I just want to touch on a few subjects that you've been talking about.
	All right, go ahead.
	Well, first of all, I noticed that you got your voice distortion gadget, and I like it.
	The next thing I wanted to talk about was about the tax-exempt status of the church.
	Yes.
	Well, I thought that maybe that caller who called from the IRS could yank the tax-exempt status from the Mormon Church and Mr. Wallace could drop his lawsuit.
	Well, I don't think our IRS employee had that kind of power.
	He's just, as he said, a contract employee, so he doesn't make policy, he just executes it.
	Well, when his niece Linda finally comes to her senses and renounces her racist, pagan religion, she'll know who to turn to because he seems like a pretty good guy.
	Ooh, that's a kind of a cheap shot.
	Aww.
	Now come on now, take it easy on people, you know, let them have their faith.
	Alright, and then one more thing.
	What else?
	About your same-sex marriage topic.
	Yes.
	I was thinking about, you know, the question that you've been posing and I don't know either, but, um, as you say, um, you're wondering whether blood is thicker than ideology and... That was the question, yes.
	Maybe it is and maybe it's not.
	I don't think it is, but I think that love is.
	Okay, well listen, I've gotta go.
	Alright, thanks, Art.
	See you later.
	Alright.
	Bye.
	We'll be right back.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from June 6th, 1996.
	This is a trailer for the new episode of Coast to Coast.
	Enjoy!
	Thank you.
	I've got a fax here from Fairbanks, Alaska.
	somewhere in time on premier radio networks tonight an ongoing presentation of coast to coast AM from June 6,
	1996 I've got a fax here from Fairbanks, Alaska
	it's Jeff in Fairbanks and if my webmaster is listening, Keith
	Keith if you're out there, Jeff in Fairbanks says a website at the University of Alaska which has an hourly
	updated satellite pass
	where you can see the pall of smoke in the Wasilla Anchorage area
	as well as the rest of the state's weather Check it out.
	It covers from the North Pole to the North Pacific and includes far eastern Siberia and part of the Yukon Territory.
	And it's a long, typical address.
	It is FTP colon forward slash forward slash GIS.
	So I don't know if those spaces ought to be in there.
	dot edu forward slash l o r e s space archive forward slash daily space
	composite dot gif good lord so i don't know if those spaces ought to be in there
	maybe if you just did a wet or a browser browser search
	for alaska you would come upon it archive daily some of some sort of search there you come
	upon it these these we've got to do something about these
	these addresses that are so long uh... but maybe we can get a copy of this
	uh...
	photograph and get it up on our website will see what we can do first-time
	caller line you're on the air well hello
	i think that the critical for a great high rachel I just have to say something about Charlie.
	What do you want to say?
	From California?
	Yes.
	How he said, oh I feel so sorry for the Alaskans, anyway.
	The nation puts a lot of effort out to the earthquakes in California, and I think he can show a little bit of sympathy to us Alaskans up here.
	That's been bugging me ever since he said it, so I just had to say something.
	I thought that was kind of rude.
	Charlie doesn't like Alaskans.
	I know, but he still should show some sympathy.
	He doesn't like Hawaiians, either.
	Charlie doesn't like most people, actually.
	I think that he feels that us Alaskans and Hawaiians aren't really part of the United States.
	You know, we're way up here.
	That's right, that's right.
	And because Alaska is generally a conservative place, I think that affects his... Oh yeah, he being a liberal.
	Yeah.
	You know, the liberals.
	I do.
	I just want to say also that one of the worst things about the fire That I feel bad for are the families who don't know if their house is burned down or not because they can't say anything about specific structures.
	That's right.
	So I think that the worst part would be waiting.
	Well, that's bad, but being in its path is worse.
	Yeah, it's much worse.
	I mean, alright, alright, thank you very much.
	Sure, it's bad.
	And when they get going this fast, this out of control, it's really frightening.
	Really, really frightening.
	These kinds of fires are... It's like an earthquake.
	You're helpless in its path.
	Man is helpless in its path.
	And for all the good we can do with firefighting, when nature is really out of control and the conditions are right and the winds are bad, you can't stop it.
	You've just got to get out of its way.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, hi, Art.
	This is Ed in Finland, California.
	Yes.
	Three quick things.
	First about the Alaska.
	Well, it's true.
	Yes, it is true.
	There is a plant exactly like that, a real plant.
	got to the weather and uh... no way to know don't know about that
	and also about the demon feed i've studied plants and so forth and
	i sort of believe it but then uh... when he said that the fruit is uh...
	like meat or meat itself that kind of puts me off because well it's true
	it is yes it is true uh... there is a plant exactly like that a real plant
	it's not science fiction it's not somebody's story
	There is really such a plant.
	Oh, and they have pictures of it and so forth?
	Oh, yes.
	Well, I hope they don't make any hamburgers out of them from fast food.
	But one last thing.
	Have you heard of the author David Irving?
	No.
	Well, you had, was it William Pierce on?
	Yes, I did.
	Yeah.
	Well, he's not like William Pierce exactly, but I just read a column on National Columnist, his last name is Cohen, but I can't remember his first name, in today's paper saying that David Irving wrote a book that claimed that Joseph Goebbels was actually the instigator of the anti-Semitic acts in Nazi Germany and so forth, and there's been a lot of suppression of his book.
	He was going to have it published.
	This is in England.
	Supposedly the pressure was so much that the book has been banned in effect.
	My experience is the only effect that banning books has is to make people want to read them.
	The underground supplies them.
	Banning books has never worked, never is going to work.
	You can't ban books.
	It has the precise opposite effect.
	It's just like when people get angry at films.
	And they go and they protest films, and they march up and down in front of a theater.
	People are then dying.
	Even if it's a lousy film, you know, it doubles the box office.
	It's not a good tactic.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, how's it going?
	Hold on, let me get my radio.
	Alright.
	Where are you calling from, please?
	This is Mark from Missouri.
	Alright.
	Hey, I heard you've been talking about the Major Danes.
	And he apparently was, like, on your show for about a half an hour or so?
	Yes, he was.
	Okay, um, did you see the, the, uh, like, the Eyes in the Sky little special thing they had on Discovery Channel?
	Uh, it's been, oh, a couple of months ago, I think it was, and they had, uh... Was it about our satellite cage, uh, satellite series?
	Uh, no, actually, well, yeah, I think they did run a show about the satellite.
	Right, I saw that one.
	But they also had one on the SR-71 Blackbird.
	Right.
	And they also had one about how the CIA had done remote viewing.
	Yes.
	Experiments and stuff.
	Oh yes.
	And they had Major Danes and another guy named Ingo Swan on there.
	That's right.
	I didn't know if you'd seen that or not.
	I didn't get to hear Well then hang in there because I am going to schedule the Major on the show.
	I'm going to schedule him on the show.
	It's not that I don't want the Major on, it's what he said that scared me.
	And yes, he is widely recognized as an expert in this field.
	A lot of people don't want to believe that, and I don't blame them based on what he's had to say, but yes, we're gonna, you bet, we'll get him.
	You know me.
	If it's interesting, we'll get it on the air for you, and it certainly is, interesting doesn't serve to describe it properly.
	Fascinating, riveting, possibly.
	And because of the message, a lot of people don't want to hear it, they get angry.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
	Hi R, this is Jennifer from California.
	Yes, hi.
	Okay, I have a couple of things actually.
	You know how you guys were talking about the media and you were talking about banning stuff?
	Yes.
	Well, I think that the government, I hate how they try and ban the whole country from knowing the inside information.
	Like a lot of diseases that are going around, half the time we don't even know about it because they feel that they don't want everyone to worry about it.
	Right.
	You know, how are we gonna know about things if we're not even informed?
	I mean, why do they have to, like, pay off the media and everything just to not tell us what's going on?
	I don't think the media's paid off.
	Well, I mean, a lot of times they're, like, shushed out of telling the whole country about what's going on.
	I mean, a lot of things you hear, they're just like... It's not what's banned or what you don't hear, it's what they don't say at all.
	In other words, it is censorship by omission.
	Okay.
	And these are the reasons that you need to have other information sources.
	One of the best is shortwave.
	If you don't have shortwave, you ought to have it.
	Okay.
	You can listen to Britain, you can listen to Moscow, you can listen to Havana, you can listen to the BBC.
	Well, I said that in Britain.
	You can listen to Canada, Tokyo, and then you'll know what's going on.
	A lot of times, though, like, because I've been studying the ocean, because that's my major ocean studies.
	Yes.
	I mean, I've just found out so many diseases that are running through the whole system of the coastline and everything, and we're not even informed of, you know, how the hazardous waste is just pouring out.
	I know it's just a little extreme, but, I mean, it's really frightening to know that, um, razor blades and, like, medicine is just going right by it and landing right in the coastline shores where little kids are playing and where we're surfing and everything.
	It's just ridiculous.
	And we don't even, we're not, I mean, We're informed to an extent, but I mean, all these things are just floating around.
	I know.
	Well, look, the reason is simple.
	It's not an insidious plot to keep information from you.
	But the major networks, even CNN to a degree, but certainly the major networks that have 30 minutes of news time every night, can only deal with so many topics.
	30 minutes is a very short time indeed.
	And they have to cover the major stories.
	And so there is a whole world of information out there, if you want it, that obviously, not for reasons of specific censorship, because I don't believe that, but just because they only have so much time is simply not covered.
	That doesn't mean that you can't get it.
	We live in America.
	It's still a free flow of information.
	Internet is a good example.
	That's another good information source, the Internet.
	In fact, wonderful, actually.
	Are you on the Internet yet?
	Do you have a computer?
	If not, you really ought to move in that direction.
	Shortwave?
	All of these alternative information sources are available to you.
	So if all you do is sit and watch the evening news, then I guess really, um, In a lot of ways, you don't have a right to complain.
	You could complain if these alternative sources were not available to you, but the answer is they are.
	Now we take you back to the night of June 6th, 1996 on Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Yes, I'm from San Mateo.
	Sir, you're going to have to talk into your phone.
	Yes.
	I just wanted to tell you that the woman from Salt Lake City, also, just in case she had a premonition, is that also her religion is from Golab, which is from The Mormons is from outer space.
	All right, thank you, and so are you.
	you. This from the Mermans, this from outer space. The walking mental wounded.
	So, I'll see you next time.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi, Art.
	Yes.
	Hi, I finally got the nerve to call you.
	Well, I'm glad.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Albuquerque.
	Albuquerque, KOD.
	The big one in Albuquerque.
	Right.
	And I want you to go see the movie, The Arrival.
	Oh, I'm going to.
	You've got to.
	When you're talking about the weather and how it's getting so hot.
	And even the chupacabra, when you see the aliens in this, it got me to thinking.
	You know?
	Has the Chupacabra made its debut in Albuquerque yet?
	No, uh-uh.
	I haven't heard anything about it here.
	I saw a report on CNN, oh, I guess about a week or ten days ago, and that's about it.
	But, you know, maybe, these things are smart.
	Well, they must be to evade... One thing is they move reportedly very fast.
	Right.
	50, 60 miles an hour and you're not going to be able to easily catch something that can go that fast.
	That's right.
	And they're smarter than we are because we can't really get a picture of them or catch one.
	Well, I may have a photograph of one.
	I don't know.
	Yeah, I wish I had a computer.
	I'm looking forward to the newsletter so I can see it.
	I sent the photograph of the Chupa up to the newsletter people today.
	Oh, good.
	Which newsletter will it be in this month?
	Well, I guess not this one, but the next.
	Okay.
	This one we are going to have a full rendition of the best quality photographs from Richard Hoagland.
	Oh, wonderful.
	In color.
	Yeah, that's great.
	So there you are.
	Thank you for calling, by the way.
	Those of you that have been wanting to see the Hoagland pictures have not had access to the internet.
	Guess what?
	They're going in our newsletter.
	And that ought to be shipping out to all of you here shortly.
	If you want to order the newsletter, I keep telling everybody.
	It's called Art Bell After Dark.
	Everything we talk about, everything out on the leading edge, some of the strange and unusual,
	it's in the newsletter.
	So you should be convinced by now.
	We've been doing this for well over a year now, I guess, haven't we?
	To order the Art Bell After Dark newsletter and get started, simply call 1-800-917-4278.
	1-800-917-4278.
	Somewhere I've got a kind of a promo of what's coming up in this newsletter.
	Ah, yes, here we go.
	800-917-4278.
	In the June edition of After Dark, expect the following.
	Expect the following.
	A comprehensive 8-page spread on Richard Hoagland, including an article by Hoagland himself, accompanied by 20 key moon photos.
	Key moon photos.
	Both black and white and color.
	The Brookings Report.
	And much more.
	My commentary on where the presidential race is headed.
	Ha ha ha ha.
	A photo of my mom with my wife, Ramona, along with an excerpt of my interview with my mom.
	I did that one night.
	Three color photos of Art's possible Roswell artifacts, accompanied by an extensive explanatory article, an article on the Unabomber, and much more.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Good morning, Art.
	Hi.
	Uh, Tim in Denver, KL Country.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, I was just gonna tell you, this new voice of yours... Yes?
	If you were to pull that thing out when we were standing in line in Portland for autographs... Right.
	That line would have cleared out real quick.
	You think so?
	I think so.
	Step up to the line.
	Come now, I'm ready to sign.
	I'd have been back in Denver before my book hit the floor.
	I know.
	Isn't that the most evil sounding thing you've ever heard?
	On this end, you can't believe it.
	The first couple times I heard it, it stood hair up on my arm.
	Well, that's exactly what I intended.
	You see, I try to become what people keep telling me I am.
	They told me I was CIA, so I told them I'm CIA.
	They would say I'm in the Trilateral Commission, so I admit to that.
	Then they would tell me that I'm an internationalist and I love the Fed, so I tell them I worship at the Fed.
	Then they started saying I'm the devil, so I thought, why not become the devil?
	You know what I mean?
	It's very, very eerie on this end.
	Yes.
	Okay, talk to you later.
	And it cost me two hours.
	It took me two hours to get all that hooked up.
	Two hours of intensive hard work to get all that hooked up.
	Because, you know, I wanted it to sound really evil.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yes.
	Yes!
	This is Carl, Carl, up in Palmer, Alaska, next door to Whistler, where the fire is burning.
	You're close to it, then.
	I just drove through it an hour and 45 minutes ago.
	Through it, not past it.
	What can you tell us?
	I was on the Parks Highway, and it was burning within 50 feet of the highway on both sides.
	Oh my God.
	They had firefighters just arriving at the scene, and I Then heard on the radio that the highway was closed.
	This was 30 seconds after I drove through.
	So you're one of the last people to come through then?
	Apparently so.
	It is apparently burning on the outskirts of the small city of Houston.
	You can see the smoke coming up from behind car lots and this sort of thing.
	How far does that make it from Wasilla now?
	Houston is next door to Wasilla.
	So, as it's wrapping around the area, it all depends on which way the wind blows and how hard they can fight it in that area.
	Well, I would guess we've got a lot of listeners tonight because they're sure not sleeping.
	I wouldn't be.
	No, not in this area.
	I've never seen traffic like this.
	This time of night, we were driving down from Denali Park and from the fire on east all the way through Wasilla, Palmer, and east of there where I live.
	The traffic is quite incredible, and this is at one in the morning here.
	What are the winds like now?
	Fortunately, right now, outside where I am, they're still.
	As we were coming through the fire, there were, I would guess, 5 to 10 mile an hour winds still.
	They are still predicting more winds, 15 to 20 miles an hour for tomorrow.
	Boy.
	And then, of course, the fire itself creates a wind.
	Oh yes, definitely.
	I heard someone speaking earlier about it jumping across the lake, and it's certainly easily done.
	I know that it has jumped a mile or more several times.
	That's horrible.
	That's really frightening.
	We're up to, this morning when we left to go on our day trip, it was about 11,000 acres involved.
	When we got back tonight, it was up to As far as I heard on the radio, 35,000 acres or more.
	All right, it's a break.
	I've got to go.
	I thank you, my friend.
	OK, thank you.
	Our prayers really are with you up there.
	That's horrible.
	Absolutely horrible.
	And you're getting the news as it occurs.
	That's it from the high desert.
	Take care, Alaska, and good night, America.

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