All Episodes
May 31, 1996 - Art Bell
02:41:00
19960531_Art-Bell-SIT-Linda-Moulton-Howe-Arts-Parts-Update

Linda Moulton Howe and an unnamed military source examine Roswell 1947 metallic fragments—aluminum with impossible 1.6x density and layered magnesium-bismuth shielding—defying Earth’s known physics, while dismissing Chupacabra photos as hoaxes yet citing bizarre animal mutilations in Mexico (1996) and Puerto Rico. Callers propose black holes, nanotech, or nuclear manipulation, but experts call it implausible without verified anomalies. Howe’s delayed book Glimpses of Other Realities (Vol. 2) promises deeper analysis, leaving open whether these materials hint at extraterrestrial tech or undiscovered science. [Automatically generated summary]

Participants
Main
a
art bell
45:26
l
linda moulton howe
01:06:33
n
neil slade
07:58
Appearances
e
edward a mcculloch
01:50
g
guillermo gonzales
00:37
j
jim deardorff
00:52
r
robert felix
00:30
Clips
b
bill doleman
00:08
g
glenn campbell
00:10
j
joseph delouise
00:05
Callers
anton in missoula
callers 00:23
reese in el paso
callers 00:49
rick meister gerhardt in california
callers 01:30
|

Speaker Time Text
April 10th UFO Samples 00:15:26
unidentified
Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 31st of May 1996.
art bell
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, good morning, wherever you are across all these time zones from the Hawaiian and Tahitian Island chains all the way across this great nation to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to the Pole, worldwide on the internet.
unidentified
This is Coast to Coast AM.
art bell
I'm Art Bell.
It is going to be a very interesting evening.
In a moment, as promised, up at 2 o'clock in the morning, thank you very much.
Linda Molten Howe is going to give us a report on what have come to be known affectionately as Arts Parts.
And I'll explain about all that in a moment.
We've got a lot of new listeners out there and they will not know what we're talking about.
We'll talk a little bit about that and no doubt the chupacabra as well.
Let me get a couple things done.
Clear away the half hour and then an intriguing report on this stuff that I have received and the continuing, and that's the good word for it, continuing dilemma.
The Roswell 1947 crash.
Do I have parts from that?
We're going to ask.
All right, here we go.
It's been, how long would you say, folks?
I'm sorry, I don't remember.
I don't have the original letter in front of me.
Three weeks, a month ago, that I received from a gentleman who claims now to be in the military service, has a military career, parts that he said he was actually given after his grandfather died.
His grandfather apparently was in the military and on the crash retrieval team, the story goes, for the saucer crash at Roswell, which of course is probably the best documented, most believed UFO story in all of ufology.
Now, when I first received the materials, I am no pun intended, no rocket scientist, but they looked interesting to me.
And, you know, what do you do when you get something like this?
Do you have extraterrestrial parts on your hands, on your hand?
I didn't really think so, but, you know, I had to get them tested.
Now, I put photographs, I took photographs of them to document it right away, and I put them up on my website.
And they are up there now.
By the way, if you want to get photographs of at least the initial materials that were sent to me, the first shipment, then go to my webpage at www.artbell.com because the mystery surrounding them is beginning to deepen and what should have been a very simple solution, somebody just doing a little testing and saying these are some aluminum punch-outs.
Somebody's messing with you, and it's a hoax.
unidentified
Well, we're not so sure now.
art bell
Then I received a second shipment from this same man of parts that claimed to be a portion of the outer skin of the spacecraft, the last parts that he had.
I sent those in as well, and I enlisted Linda Moulton Howe to act as a middle person.
She knows top-drawer scientists in the country that can look at this sort of thing.
And it's an involved but fascinating story, and she's about to tell it.
Linda Moulton Howe is an Emmy Award-winning documentary producer who began reporting years ago on doing documentaries on the environment, not on crop circles and animal mutilations and the kind of things she's doing now, one of them being a very early investigation into this legend or not of the chupacabra.
And of course, we've got a photograph that pretends to be of the chupacabra as well.
Very strange photograph.
I sent Linda a printer copy of that, knocked one off on my printer and sent it off.
And so we've got a lot of subjects to cover, not the least of which is what's going on with these alleged Roswell materials that I've got.
It's a damn, I'll tell you folks, when you get something like this, you first think, wow, oh, isn't this something?
And you will quickly learn that it's more of a burden than you might imagine.
It's strange.
Hi, Linda.
linda moulton howe
Hi, Art.
art bell
Good to have you on the program.
linda moulton howe
Well, I'm glad to be here.
And that letter, that first one that you got was dated April 10th.
art bell
And well, there you are, April 10th.
unidentified
Okay.
linda moulton howe
And in that opening, he said, quote, my grandfather was a member of the retrieval team referring, he says, to the Roswell UFO crash, but he does not specify which one, which date, or exactly where.
unidentified
Right.
linda moulton howe
And that his grandfather was sent to the crash site just after the incident was reported, and that he died in 1974, but not before he had sat down with his family or some of them and talked about the incident.
And your anonymous source said, quoting from the April 10th letter, my grandfather stated that the metallic samples are, quote, pure extract aluminum, unquote, and they were supposed to come from the crash of a UFO near Roswell, New Mexico.
Well, we started three weeks ago the first test, and they were conducted on four of the ten different pieces that you sent to the lab scientist colleague of mine.
art bell
Maybe we better qualify without giving his name, of course, or where he is, the level of academic well,
linda moulton howe
he has said that we could at least describe him as a professor in a major Midwestern university with some of the lab facilities that we have been using to look at some of this material.
And he has helped me and some of the other people investigating this phenomenon for the last six or seven years.
art bell
So in other words, I guess what I was getting at is he is well qualified to be doing what he's doing.
linda moulton howe
Well, in terms of a professor in a university with major lab facilities who is able to help us and doing so really on his own time, this is as good as we could possibly have at this point because in so much of these investigations, the kind of analysis that we need on a lot of things is so expensive if you go to outside labs.
art bell
Oh, yes.
linda moulton howe
Several of us, ranging from Bud Hopkins in abductions to a variety of other people, Stanton Friedman, we need colleagues that are in universities or labs who are willing to help with these difficult subjects.
And this man is one of those who has helped us for the last half dozen years, and his work has always been very, very good.
Now, in these first tests three weeks ago, we looked at four of those ten different pieces that you sent.
art bell
Maybe you better describe the entirety of the first shipment, just at least briefly, so people understand what it is that was sent to me.
linda moulton howe
Right.
If anybody has gone to the website and seen the photographs, they will see a number of what look like little squares, and amid the squares there are two ellipticals, well, two ellipticals that our scientist has, and a circle, a very thin, less than one millimeter, ten inch long, one and a half inch wide.
It is sort of like a very thin blade, and I believed in one of the photographs that it is lying there looking like almost like a piece of ribbon.
unidentified
Yes.
linda moulton howe
And then there are a number of the scientists calls them little vents.
They are small rectangles with very accurate, thin slits machined in them.
Right.
And no one seems to have any idea what the function of those could possibly be.
And in the lower corner of your photograph, there is a larger disc, sort of like a phonograph with grooves in it.
And we have not had access to that.
art bell
I was afraid to send it off because I only have one of that.
linda moulton howe
That's right.
Well, right now, what I'm going to focus on would be in the upper right corner of that photograph of all those little squares and two ovals in a circle.
When in the first test, which remember you were concerned about not cutting into or destroying any of the pieces about three weeks ago.
So what the scientists used was a scanning electron microscope with an attachment called an energy dispersive spectroscope or EDS.
And what this allowed us to do was examine the surfaces of four different metal samples and isolate sections as small as one to two microns.
When you hear microns, think of a blood cell.
A blood cell is about seven microns in diameter.
So something that is one to two microns is one-seventh or two-sevenths the size of a blood cell.
Now, what they do is they take a beam of electrons and expel them down to this small site that they've got in the electron microscope's target.
And they bombard the metal at that point, and they knock out some of the electrons of this unknown piece that we've got, starting with we're talking now about these little squares.
Those electrons give off a very specific X-ray wavelength, which a computer matches to specific elements.
In the case of Arts Parts, these unknown pieces, four of the pieces that they tested, which included one of the vents, included one of the squares, one of the circles, and the long, thin, ribbon-like piece.
They found essentially that it was above 99% aluminum, which is essentially a kind of pure aluminum.
And it is stressed by scientists that the best way to say it is above 99%, because there could be traces of something from hands or from handling.
But above 99% is the active phrase here on these pieces.
art bell
I've heard 9999.
linda moulton howe
Yeah, the Alcoa aluminum people will refer to it as 4-9 aluminum.
Now, one of the small rectangles with the tiny slits in it showed about 1% manganese.
So it was at least it had a trace of another element in it.
And there were some very small grains of silicon, about 1 to 2 microns in diameter, attached to two of the metal fragments, but they were not alloyed within the aluminum.
It was perhaps contact.
This might come into contact if the pieces had been on the ground.
art bell
And I heard the word styrations, too.
unidentified
Yeah.
art bell
Scrapes as those that might have impacted something.
linda moulton howe
Yes, there were very thin horizontal striations which would be consistent if the little squares had come in contact with a surface and had rubbed across, but we just don't know at that point.
We just know that there were these few little tiny 1 to 2 micron silicon pieces.
Now, for clarity, to discuss the anomalies that we have so far, let's go sort of in a short little list that first, nearly pure aluminum that is 1 millimeter or less thick should be soft enough to bend.
But the lab scientists said that the little squares are too hard to bend with his fingers.
Now, that is unusual, but we need to do, we know we need to do further hardness testing on this.
art bell
So it's harder than you would expect it to be as pure aluminum.
Now still remember folks, at this point, they have now only tested the outside of these pieces in coming to the determination it was pure aluminum.
linda moulton howe
Now that's right.
And second, when the five little squares were weighed and measured, each was six millimeters by six millimeters by one millimeter, and each weighed exactly 160 milligrams.
art bell
160 milligrams, okay.
linda moulton howe
And we reported that on our first report about this.
And there was a very sharp listener in Denver, Pennsylvania, who faxed me and said if those measurements are correct, 6 by 6 by 1 millimeters, then, and it's a 99% and above aluminum, then it should weigh 97 milligrams, not 160.
Destructive Test Reveals Mystery 00:15:30
linda moulton howe
And this was based on the fact that the density of aluminum is 2.7 grams per cubic centimeter.
Density relates to how tightly atoms are packed into a specific space, while weight measures the whole mass of something.
And that's what we put in a scale to weigh.
Well, density is relating to how tightly the atoms are packed into a specific space.
In the case of the little squares, of that specific size, 6 by 6 by 1 millimeters, they should have weighed 97 milligrams, not 160.
And the discrepancy in weight means that each little square's density is 4.4 grams per cubic centimeter.
And that is 1.6 times more dense than one would expect for more than 99% aluminum.
art bell
Is that 1.6?
In other words, 160%?
linda moulton howe
1.6 times.
I'm going to be very careful here that my words are exactly consistent with what the scientists have said.
And we know that we have a weight and a density anomaly that we've got to explain here.
art bell
Okay, that's better than the way I'm hearing it, one and a half times what it ought to be.
linda moulton howe
1.6.
art bell
1.6, okay?
linda moulton howe
1.6 times more dense.
art bell
All right.
Well, that's crazy.
linda moulton howe
Yeah, what could account for such a huge density difference?
And from a scientist's point of view, I've been talking with a lot of people, including one of Alcoa Aluminum's most respected and retired aluminum specialists.
He started working with Alcoa Aluminum in 1954 and retired recently.
And he said, if you had an unusual amount of something or other that causes this huge density increase from 2.7 to 4.4 grams per cubic centimeter, which that in itself astonished him, he said it could well be that you'd get a very distorted crystallographic structure that could give you a clue as to what's going on.
And so he is suggesting something that the scientists and I have talked about that we need to do, which is if we can look at the crystal structure and see how the atoms relate to each other in the crystals of aluminum.
art bell
Well, we're jumping ahead here.
unidentified
Yeah.
linda moulton howe
But it comes down to this issue of what could account for such huge density difference.
And it might be that there is actually something at that kind of level that is different than in normal aluminum.
And we're in an area where everybody I've talked to is puzzled about density differences.
art bell
All right, well, let's stop.
Now, we had examined the exterior of it and found it to be essentially pure aluminum.
And at that point, we had only looked at the outside.
That's when you called me and said, hey, we want to be able to do, or can we have your permission to do, a destructive test.
In other words, obviously at this point, it might have been a bad alloy.
Remember we talked about that?
Some other metal inside that would account for this incredible weight difference.
And so I authorized a destructive test.
And when we come back, we'll talk about what happened.
It's interesting.
Stay right where you are.
My guest is Linda Moulton Howe.
I'm Art Bell from the Great American Southwest High Desert.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31st, 1996.
art bell
Radio from the high desert in the nighttime, live, because this radio station cares enough to have live talk radio on.
The mystery deepens in a moment.
We did a destructive test on one of the pieces.
We had to know what was inside.
In a moment, you'll find out.
Now, the mystery continues.
I authorized a destructive test to be done.
Linda called me and said, How about it?
I said, Okay, fine.
I've got to know.
We've got to know now, so let's cut it open.
And we expected to find some other metal, some other alloy that would account for this tremendous weight difference.
Somebody just sent me a fax.
It said, perhaps there is some detail inside that is not aluminum.
That would explain the whole thing.
So we cut it open, and what happened?
linda moulton howe
Well, Art, a metallurgist, was involved in this particular one, and they put the piece in wax and they cut through and they look at the cross-section, and there's more aluminum.
And the only thing that they could come up with that was any different than just more aluminum, aluminum, aluminum, as we have said a couple weeks ago, is less than 1% zinc somewhat in the center of the cross-section, but essentially it was one big aluminum peak again.
So there wasn't any discernible structure.
It was again apparently above 90 or yeah, it was above 99% aluminum with less than 1% zinc when they did the cross-section.
art bell
So there was no element in there that could account, even begin to account for the weight.
linda moulton howe
Not at this point that anybody has been able to find using a scanning electron microscope, EDS, looking at the gross cross-section.
We are still at this issue of what appears to be the majority of aluminum element, but the weight and the density are off.
art bell
Now, well, actually, the hardness is off.
The density is off, and the weight is off, and not by a small amount, but by 1.6 times.
So that's crazy.
And now that we've looked inside of it, it's even crazier.
unidentified
It just can't be.
linda moulton howe
And the various possibilities have included the suggestion that we might have some kind of an isotope in there of aluminum, although aluminum is supposed to have really only essentially one major isotope.
It would be very unusual if they do some kind of a mass spectroscopy test and they look at the isotopes.
And if an extraordinary number of neutrons were found, which is an atom is made up of protons and neutrons, sort of at its central core and spinning around, or now in quantum physics they say in all places at once are different electrons per element.
And if an extraordinary number of neutrons are found, which is what relates to isotope measurement, we will definitely be in unknown territory that could prove that we have something not known to Earth sciences, but until those kinds of tests are done, we are still holding pieces that are essentially aluminum with these unusual properties.
Now, when we jump to the new pieces that were sent to you.
art bell
All right, well, jumping, let me tell everybody.
We received a second letter.
I did.
With more parts.
This time, the man suggested, didn't suggest, said that these were the last things his grandfather had given him.
That it was purportedly from the outside or the skin, I think that's right, of the spacecraft.
Correct, Linda?
linda moulton howe
This was his exact quote from his letter, which was the third letter sent to you with these pieces.
He said, these scrapings came from the exterior underside of the disk itself.
It literally was a, quote, shell-like, unquote, shielding of the disk, brittle and layered, almost with a prefabricated design and placing.
unidentified
Right.
linda moulton howe
Unquote.
Now, we were lucky this afternoon that the scientist was able to get time on the scanning electron microscope and EDS again, and this is what he found.
The size of the two pieces that you sent are about two inches long by one inch wide, but only two to three millimeters thick.
It's fairly hard, but so brittle it can be broken easily.
And the scientists confirmed that, and that is also consistent with this man's third letter.
Now, everybody, try to imagine in your mind a piece of cake that has many thin layers with bright silver color on top and a very dark charcoal black on the bottom.
When he looked at the bright silver side with the EDS, the elemental composition is greater than 95% magnesium.
The other element that showed up was about 1 to 3% zinc mixed with that shiny magnesium.
On the dark charcoal side, the EDS showed 60% magnesium and 40% bismuth.
Well, when the lab prepared a polished cross-section of this piece, this is what they found.
And now we're going to go back into that mind of seeing this cake analogy that we're looking at of about 15 or so very thin layers.
The microscope and the EDS showed layers of magnesium about 100 to 200 microns thick glued or stuck together by a very thin and wavy film of bismuth that's only one to two microns thick.
art bell
What is bismuth?
linda moulton howe
Okay, bismuth is one of the elements.
It is next on the periodic chart beyond lead.
Therefore, it is very heavy.
It is not a good conductor of heat or electricity.
And it has a relatively low melting temperature.
And we'll get to that in just a moment.
But think about these layers, that if a blood cell is seven microns in diameter, the bismuth is basically a film that is one-seventh the size of a blood cell in between each of these thin, thin layers of magnesium, and that there are 15 or more layers of the magnesium bismuth, magnesium bismuth, magnesium bismuth, and so forth.
art bell
I could see the layers with a magnifying glass.
Now, I couldn't see what your scientists could see, but I could tell that it was layered very strangely, Linda.
linda moulton howe
Yes, and there's something interesting.
I talked about this specific layering tonight with a man who works as a nuclear engineer out in Washington in the Hanford facility.
art bell
Yes.
linda moulton howe
And he took this information and facts back, and he said that this material would make a good, what's called an ablative shield for a spacecraft because bismuth does have this low melting point and along with magnesium doesn't conduct heat well.
If it was attached to something as an outside coating that was moving fast to the friction of our atmosphere, it would melt perhaps thin layer by thin layer, giving off a lot of heat energy, which would preserve the underlying layers in the craft.
It is something our own space program has used.
And why this is the way, if it is a technology from someplace else, why there would be this specific layering on the outside could only be known to the creators of that craft.
But this is an interesting hypothesis that that's why these particular elements might be sandwiched together like this.
But we have magnesium and bismuth in the new pieces, no aluminum, and we have all aluminum with tiny traces of things in all the other pieces with the anomalies of the weight and the unusual, we'll call it bigger hardness than solid aluminum should be in terms of trying to bend these little pieces.
And I'm sitting here today on this 1st of June early morning realizing that what started as maybe another wild goose chase has now got me talking to many people in many fields wishing that I had 10 PhDs and wondering, Art, maybe this is perhaps leading toward a true anomaly.
That we have something, we may not ever be able to prove its source, but that we are right now in a very baffling area to scientists about this density.
Why should the density be different?
And historically, it's interesting to note that back in the 1950s when an alleged craft of some sort supposedly came down in Ubatuba, Brazil, there were pieces that were parceled out to scientists back then.
Density Mystery Revealed 00:11:30
linda moulton howe
And there is a man who has a book out now who discusses that case.
His name is Paul Hill, and it's called Uncommon Flying Objects, a Scientific Analysis.
And Mr. Hill reports that the density of one of the fragments back in the Brazil case in the 50s was determined for a small, carefully polished piece taken from the center of the fragment, sort of the way that we have been doing things.
And they weighed it.
And operators and spectators alike were in for a surprise.
Three successive tests all showed a density of 1.866.
The expected density of magnesium was 1.741.
They have this discrepancy again in the density of these tests on the magnesium back in this 1950s case in Brazil, which was never resolved.
art bell
This is a smaller difference than we have here.
unidentified
Yes.
art bell
Yes.
linda moulton howe
Quite a bit smaller.
But it is interesting that now here is our case.
Here is a historic case that has always been sort of hanging out there in the history of UFO phenomena as what were these pieces and the fact that they did find a slight density anomaly there.
Now I know that some people I've talked to that have alleged artifacts, they're going to start looking at this density issue in other pieces that have come up.
It may be that this is an area that may begin to separate out something where we would have everybody says, well, how can we prove that this wasn't built or manufactured on the Earth?
art bell
We may be on the road with these parts to proving that.
linda moulton howe
If there's something extraordinary in neutrons or in the crystalline structure, we may at least be saying we've got something that is not explainable in current technology.
And if so, where did it come from and how was it made?
art bell
Just an idle question, Linda.
What the hell do I do with this?
linda moulton howe
Well, don't give it away.
Keep it preserved.
I think that this is definitely worth the more testing that we're going to try to do, I think, over the next few weeks.
The story isn't over yet because we've got to find out more things if we can.
art bell
But there is no readily explainable, easily explained.
This is not dismissible at this point.
linda moulton howe
No, and for those who haven't heard the Dreamland report, I had talked with a couple of engineers from Alcoa a couple of weeks ago and had updated you that when one of our listeners had faxed in that, well, this must be aluminum scrap punchouts.
unidentified
Yes.
linda moulton howe
The fact is that the engineers at Alcoa, when they looked at these photographs, they could not just say, which is what I expected, right off the bat, oh, this is aluminum scrap punch-out.
In fact, one of their first questions was, what are those rectangle slit objects?
unidentified
Yes.
linda moulton howe
They had never seen anything like that.
They did not recognize any of this immediately as being consistent with what they would think of as aluminum scrap punchouts.
And now that we're into this density and weight anomaly, that is not going to be what you would find in scrap punchouts from aluminum manufacturing.
We truly have a mystery here, and I think we should keep going and as far as we can to try to resolve it.
art bell
In other words, I could have the real thing.
linda moulton howe
You could have what this man describes in the letter, and unfortunately we don't have a name, we don't have a physical source of which crash, and that makes this, I think, sadly lacking in the kinds of details that we really need for a real case story.
But I also understand that the source has stressed in all three letters that he is concerned about his family, his livelihood, his own career, and feels that it could be jeopardized.
And I think that that is probably one of the saddest comments on everything that we're looking into, that we are still living in a paradigm that is saying that much of this must remain off-limits.
And I wish that this would change so that all of us in the human family could be involved in these investigations of what is this apparent other intelligence that's interacting with our planet.
Now, whether these pieces are in fact from spacecraft from somewhere else in the universe, we may never know the definitive answer to that question.
All we've got are the three letters from an anonymous source, and that right now we sit not being able to dismiss these easily on any normal analysis saying that this is clearly punch-outs, this is scrap, that this is current-day aluminum manufacturing.
No one has been able to say that either.
art bell
That gives me the heebie-jeebies sort of.
linda moulton howe
We could be handling something that was made maybe somewhere else.
art bell
Very quickly, I sent you a photograph of what was said to be a chupacabra, or what a man thought was a chupacabra.
And by the way, I should tell you I've got a new email from that man who says he would be glad to provide, get this, the original photograph.
linda moulton howe
Well, that would certainly be helpful because I took the photograph that you sent me along with the drawings that I have from my research in Puerto Rico and some drawings from some children in Juarez, Mexico, where there have also been eyewitnesses to seeing a creature attack dogs and other animals there.
And I laid them all out on the desk of a man who's a very respected vertebrate biologist, is the correct title.
And he is in the Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia.
And it was extraordinary to be in an office in which we were surrounded by dinosaur fossils.
We were surrounded by fish fossils, reptile fossils, mammal.
There were bones of all kinds of different species in this office.
There were photographs of every animal conceivable.
There were drawings of various kinds of dinosaurs going back 65 million years ago and more in terms of artist recreation from fossil bones.
We were literally surrounded by all of the evolutionary aspects of animal life on this planet in this big office, the Academy, and here I am sitting across the desk and laying down these drawings and the photograph that you sent me.
And he looked at them for a moment and then, like I've seen so many scientists, they kind of throw their hands up in the air and they it's a sort of scoffing laugh and they say, this doesn't, and this is what he said, this doesn't fall into any category that I am familiar with at all.
Therefore, I do not believe that the eyewitnesses are credible.
Now I've heard that exact reply.
art bell
This was with regard to the drawings.
linda moulton howe
To the drawings and the photo.
unidentified
Okay.
linda moulton howe
The photo, he dismissed more quickly.
And if your communicator on that photograph has more information, more detailed information, how was this photo taken?
From what distance, are we looking at something that is six inches tall, close up with a macro?
Or are we talking about something that is bigger with a wider lens?
But the scientist immediately dismissed it as a hoax because he said it looked like a hodgepodge of a collection of things that he would suspect that somebody would throw together.
Now, one of the interesting things was that the head of the creature actually resembles, I'm saying resembles, a flying fox bat head.
If people go to encyclopedias or these CD-ROMs now that are for encyclopedias of animals, you will see heads of a flying fox bat that resemble this.
art bell
All right, all right, hold it there.
Hold everything right now.
linda moulton howe
But it's not.
It's not.
art bell
It's not that.
All right.
Well, one thing it sure is, is ugly as hell.
unidentified
Yeah.
art bell
Man, that thing's ugly.
All right.
Linda, stay where you are.
We'll be right back.
Linda Moulton Howe is my guest.
unidentified
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More Somewhere in Time coming up.
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Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 31st of May, 1996.
art bell
Good evening across the nation.
My name is Art Bell, and my guest is Linda Moulton Howe.
She is an Emmy Award-winning documentary producer, investigator, scientist, has looked into crop circles, animal mutilations, the Chupacabra mystery, long before it became as popular as it is today.
And most recently, into those pieces of metal, those very now anomalous pieces of metal that I received purporting to be from the Roswell crash.
It's been a careful, plotting, one-hour presentation of scientific evidence that would seem at this point to leave us in a completely anomalous, strange, unexplainable position with these pieces of metal.
The density is wrong.
The weight is wrong.
And it's quite a mystery.
Element 115 And Bismuth Melting Points 00:03:04
art bell
And now the latest materials that are even in some ways, I don't know if you'd say they're more mysterious, but they certainly are mysterious.
We'll get back to it and your questions in a moment.
I've got some faxes.
So, Linda Howe, back in a moment.
And, Linda, as we come back to this, let me read you a couple of faxes, and you can react to them if you want.
Mm-hmm.
One says, Golly Art, bismuth, is in the same periodic table of the elements column as would be element 115, which would be just below it.
Element 115 is, of course, the element that Mr. Lazar claims powered some flying saucers.
Now, that's followed by this one.
Art bismuth melting point is 544.52 Kelvin degrees.
Bismuth is the most diamagnetic of all metals, and the thermal conductivity is lower than any metal except mercury.
It has high electrical resistance and has the highest Hall effect, any metal of any metal, the greatest increase in electrical resistance when placed in a magnetic field.
Now, that's fascinating.
The melting point is 544.52 Kelvin?
linda moulton howe
Which is low in comparison to several other metals, which if this hypothesis were correct, that it was a shield, that all these little layers were actually designed to do melting under certain conditions, that might be part of the reason.
But we are trying to second guess here something that is unknown.
And I feel that right now it's very interesting to study more about this whole combination of the magnesium and the bismuth.
And I have gotten similar facts about these characteristics of bismuth.
And if we are talking also about UFOs that have traditionally been associated with strong electromagnetic fields or magnetic fields or moving in magnetic fields, that something that was resistant to magnetic fields may be as necessary as something that would conduct.
And so we could find in one particular spacecraft a number of different elements and different configurations that would meet a lot of different needs.
Things From Elsewhere 00:05:59
linda moulton howe
And that's like looking at one spot on a giraffe.
We don't know the function and the relationship of the entire giraffe.
We only have spots to look at.
art bell
All right.
Maybe the man in Charleston, South Carolina, who sent me this stuff, listening now to the report and to you, realizing himself that he sent me what may be the real thing, would contact us.
Maybe he'd be willing to come forward.
I mean, after all, Linda, my God, these may be things from elsewhere.
And if that is the case, it seems to me, I don't want to say he has a duty.
He's in the military, and I know he's frightened with regard to his career.
But with this kind of news, I would make an appeal to him that this is getting to be such an important story that getting the details now behind this and confirming that his grandfather was at Roswell would tie a pink ribbon on it.
linda moulton howe
Well, I know that, and I understand and sympathize with this man.
I have talked with so many people who feel totally vulnerable to a system that they feel is threatening to their livelihood when in fact all we're trying to do is understand the truth around these disks.
But what we really need, even if it could be confidentially shared and not even for public dissemination, if you, I, if we could have a name that we could try to track down historically, not his name, but his grandfather's name, to simply confirm that this person existed, something like that would certainly help to discuss.
art bell
All right, Linda, maybe he'll do that.
Let me ask this.
Do you think you could say to him with any degree of certainty that if you were to provide that kind of information in view of what we may have on our hands here that his career would not be in jeopardy?
linda moulton howe
I can't guarantee that.
None of us can.
It's one of the dilemmas of this age.
It doesn't make sense.
We should all, it seems to me, we should all know what the truth is here, but there is some kind of implied threat.
And we've seen it in many cases in debriefings with military people who have come face to face with either a disc or some kind of non-human looking creature.
And they are they really literally come out of these briefings feeling like that their entire life will be threatened if they discuss anything.
And so I understand and sympathize with this man.
On the other hand, if we have something that continues to be this anomalous, and we don't have more of a hard, firm historic data to go around it, we don't even know, this would be helpful,
if he knows what specific, even latitude and longitude, if he knew those sort of details or how many miles from what small town or larger town or something that would place a specific knowledge of where this alleged crash was supposed to have happened,
because as you and I so well know now, there are stories of many different types, it appears, of crashes in different time periods that whatever happened on the Corona ranch in 1947, July, may be one of only half a dozen or more types of crashes in and around 46 to maybe 53.
Now, so we have, that is a problem, too.
art bell
These pieces, Linda, are of a size, aren't they, that somebody on a crash retrieval team might just be able to slip into their pocket, right?
linda moulton howe
Yeah, they're not something that could not be picked up easily.
unidentified
They're small.
art bell
Listen, it's getting to the point now where I'm beginning to be a little concerned that I'm liable to get a visit.
Am I?
linda moulton howe
Well, all of this has been out so out front on the website, and we've been talking about it on the radio, and it is well known.
art bell
I know about it.
linda moulton howe
But I can't imagine what would be gained by anyone trying to threaten you or me or anybody else on this.
These are out there.
They're hanging out there.
We're doing our best to understand what they are.
If the government at some level felt that it was compromising for the world to know that there could be aluminum structured with a different density, why?
And why can we not all know?
Now, I understand and I'm not naïve about the Cold War and keeping technological advances, whether it was material and R ⁇ D that we were learning from actual spacecraft and keeping it away from our perceived enemies and understand that we were in that kind of a climate, and there may still be arguments today along those lines.
But on the other hand, this is like a gusher now.
There are people and eyewitnesses and anomalous phenomena that are occurring on the planet globally, and they seem to be associated with silver disks.
And in fact, in the Chupacagras phenomena that we were talking about just before this last break, There were children and adults in Juarez, Mexico, starting from about January through March.
Unusual Creatures Sightings 00:08:01
linda moulton howe
And they were reporting to police, provoked a team that was the Channel 9, NBC affiliate station in El Paso, to go down to Juarez because they were reporting that round silver saucer-shaped objects with a row of colored lights around the circumference were landing in this remote area of Juarez, literally landing.
The children even claimed that they were seeing small beings that were brown-colored coming out of these discs.
Well, there is, first there's the knee-jerk reaction, like the scientist that I talked to Friday, who says, well, this can't be, that eyewitnesses can't possibly be correct, that if it doesn't fit our current accepted paradigm, it doesn't exist.
I've always come from a journalistic tradition where you interview people, you interview more than one.
If you get a pattern of eyewitness testimony, you have to at least take it seriously, and you have to follow facts where they lead.
You don't have preconceived conclusions.
And right now, I think that the fact that there have been reports from many people to the point that it provoked teams of people and the NBC crew to go down to Juarez says that enough was happening and enough was being reported that it caught people's attention.
And the children were making these drawings.
And what were they drawing?
They were drawing, in this one case, a nine-year-old drew something that she said she saw attack her own dog and there was trauma involved.
So she has a drawing that shows these, we call it the serrated edge or feathers or spikes or whatever, on a creature that has three pointed toes.
It does not have any of the feeling as if a child were looking at a tabloid newspaper and copying it.
This appears to have the characteristics of what people have also described in Puerto Rico, in which I have many drawings and eyewitness descriptions in Puerto Rico.
But it is now not confined to Puerto Rico.
The reports in Juarez, Mexico have been only part of a huge wave of these similar reports from the north to the south of Mexico.
There have been reports in Costa Rica, San Jose, and in Panama and Ecuador, which means that Central America into South America, there are these similar kind of reports, similar kind of puncture marks in animals.
And then in the last two months, we've had news of at least, if not the puncture marks, in a few cases, an unusual looking creature in Sweetwater, Florida, Tucson, Arizona, Selmar, California.
And this would be in areas that would be in proximity to the Mexico-United States southern border.
So if there is something there, it could be coming up over the border.
And I think that we should give serious attention.
And when the vertebrate biologist threw up his hands after discussing a lot more details about what people had reported, he said, well, look, you bring me in one of these things and lay it on this desk.
And he said, and I can guarantee you I'll give it a good examination.
And he said, even if you bring me a bone, if you bring me skin, he says, I can at least tell you where it comes from.
art bell
We would love to do that, wouldn't we?
linda moulton howe
Yeah, and in terms of the bats, because there's a great deal of confusion about bats, they would be like small furry animals with these strange bat-like wings.
They all have fur or hair on their head.
And when you go to the photograph, you can see that whatever that is, it's a smooth, slick skin.
unidentified
Yes.
linda moulton howe
And that's one of the reasons why it is definitely not anything in the bat category.
art bell
Well, it is a gross photograph.
I'm going to put it in the newsletter, and we have no way of knowing if it's authentic or a hoax, no way of knowing at all.
However, the claws are similar to those described with regard to the chupacabra, aren't they?
linda moulton howe
Well, maybe.
I've looked at them, and I've compared them to my drawings and did this with the scientists.
I'm looking at two or three of the drawings right now, and most of the people have said that the hands of the chupacabras that they have come close face-to-face encounter with in Puerto Rico resemble human hands, except that there are only three digits with very long two-inch nails.
Now, the drooping aspect of the drawings in Puerto Rico, it's hard to say whether or not those could be talons and could match what's in that picture.
art bell
I'm going to try to get you the original, and it's being offered to me, so we'll get the original photograph.
linda moulton howe
And if we could find out where exactly this photograph was taken and how big all of the people, whether they've been children or adults, who have seen the alleged chupacabris unidentified creature close up, say that it is about four feet to five feet tall when it stands up on two legs and tends to go down on four.
Well, if there's something four to five feet tall, for example, there's not a bat body in the world that would be four to five feet long.
There may be wide wingspreads, but the bodies of the bats are not four to five feet long.
And this particular creature that is drawn is often shown standing on two feet with this strange feather-like whatever it is that goes from the head or the neck down to the bottom of the spine and seems to be red-colored.
That has been described by many people.
And if it's feathers, I mean, if there are three fingers and three toes, one of the things that the vertebrate biologist brought up in that meeting Friday was that on our planet now, in modern life, the animal that has three toes is in the bird family.
And the birds are connected in evolution back to the dinosaurs that became extinct about 65 million years ago.
And the birds have continued until our modern age as the closest link to the dinosaurs.
The dinosaurs had three digits with talons on them.
Whether or not there is any possible link whatsoever to something in that kind of evolutionary connection, I don't know.
But most animals, and certainly not mammals, do not have three digits.
They have more than three.
art bell
And this audience should know, some of them have not followed you, that for many, many months before it hit the mainstream press, which it's now doing with a vengeance, was on the front page of the San Diego Union Tribune the other day.
You have been going to Puerto Rico and reporting on the chupacabra back when nobody ever heard of the chupacabra unless they listened to your reports on Dreamland.
So you've been at this for a long time.
linda moulton howe
Well, I'm sensitive to unusual animal deaths because how I got into all this phenomenon in the first place goes back to the fall of 79 when I started trying to find out what was happening in what then was called animal mutilations,
Bell's UFO Mystery 00:02:53
linda moulton howe
where largely cattle and horses and other domestic animals, but largely cattle and horses, were affected by something that was excising the same essential pattern of tissue from here, eye, the jaw, flesh, the tongue, the genitals, and the rectal tissue cord out.
And I did the documentary, A Strange Harvest, about that phenomenon.
And over the last 16 years, as I have researched more about the unusual deaths there and found myself going headfirst into this area called the UFO phenomena, not being prepared that I would be starting out in an environmental investigation with animals and find myself listening to law enforcement and ranchers and others describing their eyewitness sightings of these discs, lighted discs, silver discs.
And in fact, Art, last night I talked with a man who was in the federal marshal's office.
art bell
All right, hold the story.
unidentified
Yeah.
art bell
Hold the story, Linda, and we're going to take a break.
And we've got to eventually get to the phones here.
I want to let people ask questions.
So stay right there.
We'll be right back from the high desert.
You're listening to a fascinating Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Art Bell.
More in a moment.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
We take
you back to the past on ART BELL, Somewhere In Time.
art bell
And I've got a surprise for you coming up in a moment.
Interesting.
Guess what?
I got a fax.
It says, Dear Art, I am the nuclear engineer that Linda referred to at Westinghouse Hanford Company in Richland, Washington.
Aluminum's Mysterious Density 00:15:18
art bell
I've worked on many nuclear projects for the NASA, DOD, and DOE in the last 17 years.
I've seen some pretty interesting stuff in physical impossibilities become realities, arts, parts.
The aluminum components demonstrating twice the normal density sounds like another one of those physical impossibilities, which is going to kick us in the butt.
And so he supplied me with a phone number, and I'm now bringing him on the air with Linda Howe.
Linda, are you there?
linda moulton howe
Yes, I am.
art bell
All right.
Brent, are you there?
linda moulton howe
Yes.
unidentified
Good evening.
art bell
Good evening.
linda moulton howe
Hello, Brent.
unidentified
Hi.
art bell
I guess you two talked or communicated by facts or what, Brent?
unidentified
A couple phone calls and several faxes this afternoon.
neil slade
The information that Linda has is pretty interesting to say the least.
art bell
How anomalous do you I take it you've been listening over the last hour and you communicated with her.
How anomalous do you consider this Brent?
neil slade
Well, the density of the aluminum segments that you have, I could easily see something on the order of 5 or 10% variance in weight.
But a 60% variance says that there's something else going on there.
Now, Linda told me about the several recalibrations that they did on the various balances and scales that they used.
So they've pretty much eliminated all of the laboratory errors that I would check for first.
The other thing they talked about there was the possibility of the isotopes.
And then based on the first values I had, which was that the density was twice as high as the original aluminum might have, that would require an addition of something like 30 additional neutrons to try to get those densities up that high.
unidentified
And that just is a physical impossibility.
neil slade
There are with most isotopes or most materials that you deal with, there's a certain range where the element is very stable.
And then the isotopes are the same number of protons for the atom, but have two or three less or more neutrons, depending upon the isotope we're talking about.
They don't last very long, minutes and seconds in this particular case.
But to have 30 of them would be just incredible.
linda moulton howe
Do you have any other hypothesis that could explain this 1.6?
It's actually 1.6, not exactly twice, but 1.6 times density.
Is there anything else that you can think of that could explain this?
neil slade
Well, I believe a process called a herfing, is how it's referred to here locally, a high-energy rate-forming process might produce a higher density.
unidentified
However, it's got some...
linda moulton howe
And for the audience, if you could explain that, for example, if an atomic bomb went off, use that analogy.
Oh, okay.
neil slade
Well, part of the wonders of the atomic bomb is that the materials are compressed by an explosive device to get it to the right density, which is higher than one would expect to see in nature.
And while we don't use the same process with explosive for hurfing, it is possible to use a very large press and a very rapid acceleration to squeeze material into 100% theoretical density.
Now, most of your material have small air pockets or porosity associated with them, so they're not quite 100% theoretically dense.
If you had a process that could somehow go beyond this 100% and then cool the material fast enough, you would be able to freeze the atoms in a tighter structure.
art bell
Can we do that now?
unidentified
Not that I know of.
neil slade
The problem is the ability to withdraw the heat from the material.
So the best I've seen is 100% theoretical density.
So if you've got somebody that's come up with a if it turns out to be aluminum and 60% greater density, you've got a process that I'm not aware of here on Earth.
unidentified
Yeah.
art bell
This is so hard to talk about because when people they listen casually, but what we're really saying here, or maybe we're afraid to say it, is that this really may be from elsewhere.
unidentified
That's right.
Certainly unusual material.
linda moulton howe
And, you know, I keep thinking that there were scientists and military people in the 40s to the 50s who must have been doing the same thing we're trying to do now, and how many times have they done it, and how much of this information is locked away in highly sensitive compartmentalized files spread all over in various places of this country and maybe other parts of the world,
and that we all keep sort of repeating, stumbling forward, trying to figure this out.
If the government has a lot of these answers, when are they going to share them?
unidentified
Well, that's a good question.
art bell
Or may something like this force it.
neil slade
Well, it certainly will raise an interesting question for them, and they'll have to resolve it.
linda moulton howe
Well, the interesting thing, too, is that even if we are, in our own small way, beginning to understand that there is something here about density in relationship to some kind of metallic structure that doesn't fit what we have on Earth,
and we get more and more scientists involved, we may, in fact, end up doing something or discovering something, even if it's old news inside of the inner sanctum in the government, we may finally, at least, we may have something that could attract the attention of the scientific world, I hope, and that we could get some breakthroughs on the civilian end.
art bell
Well, I'm beginning to wonder, with the detailed information that we've dispensed tonight with regard to these parts, if we're not likely to draw attention, again, I wonder about that.
At some point, somebody out there is going to say, we need to go visit Mr. Bell and see this stuff.
Is that likely to happen, do you think, Brent?
neil slade
Well, you'll probably get something a little less scary.
Technical inquiries from various folks that will want to see what you really have, and you'll never really know who sent them.
linda moulton howe
But if it is real art, and if it is from a Rosswell crash, then they know what it is.
All they're doing is watching us in the process of trying to discover facts that they've already been through.
art bell
All right.
Brent, I want to thank you.
Is there anything else you'd like to say?
joseph delouise
Well, I had a couple observations.
neil slade
One of which was if you took some of the destroyed samples that you had and melted them and allow them to reform, do they come back to their normal density?
And if they do, again, it's sort of proving that you can't do something rather than saying that you can.
It's the reverse of trying to prove that they're man-made.
unidentified
You'd be showing that you couldn't do that step.
linda moulton howe
Which is a good point because we could take, if Art said it was okay, one more, because there were a lot of those squares, we could take one and melt it and see if we weighed again, if it did return to the weight it should be.
unidentified
Yeah, or the density, yes.
neil slade
Well, I was thinking more of a sample that you've already destroyed or cut in half.
linda moulton howe
Okay.
neil slade
And then because that pure material is still there, and it doesn't matter how much of a quantity you've got, you're just looking for the density.
The other thing I looked at was the materials that were reported on the outside of the ship structure.
unidentified
Right.
neil slade
And they're kind of commonplace, but they serve very well as an ablative shield.
Very inexpensive unit the way it's been described.
And it's kind of curious how it's put together.
art bell
It is curious.
Yes, yes.
linda moulton howe
In your work as a nuclear engineer, have you ever come across a description of layering bismuth and magnesium that way?
joseph delouise
Not in that particular application.
neil slade
I did some work for NASA a few years back with ultra-lightweight ceramic materials for micrometeoroid protection of spacecraft.
And the other application was a radiator for it.
And in that, we used composites, ceramic fibers with metals layered much similarly.
In order to get a metal to stick to the ceramic fiber like glass, you'd have to coat it with copper or a nickel plating first, and then you could put on a different metal.
But it sounds like a vapor deposition process.
linda moulton howe
So how difficult do you think it would be to lay down one to two microns film of bismuth and then 200 to 300 or 100 to 200 millimeters of get my notes here?
I get the microns.
I don't want to get it this mixed up or off, but the layers are very small, each one.
One to two microns is so small.
neil slade
Yeah, as far as the technology today, we can do that.
However, it's not a cheap thing.
Why anybody would go about producing such a thing just to send it to art would be a real good question in itself.
But if the parts are 40 years old, I'm not sure that this technology existed in a much greater than laboratory benchtop scale.
art bell
Is there any way, and I presume there is not, I'll ask you both, to date these materials?
unidentified
Not to my knowledge.
linda moulton howe
I ask some of the metallurgists and the people who had worked with aluminum at Sandia, and I'll color that question also.
And if you're dealing with above 99% aluminum, you basically have an element that is that element regardless where it is.
But now aluminum in terms of the natural earth is not found anywhere in nature at 99.9%.
That has to be manufactured.
So that right there, anything that is coming up to what is known as 1100 aluminum or 409 aluminum separates it away from anything that would be found naturally on the Earth.
And when you get into that category, whether it was a Zeta reticuli or an Epsilon Eridani or a system in another galaxy, and they produced 99.999 aluminum, it's going to be the same element, whether it's on the Earth in this solar system or any other planetary system.
art bell
But what might be different is exactly what we have found different.
That is the density.
linda moulton howe
Well, the density issue is something that If I understand from just the broad brush of the periodic table, at least in the physics of this Earth and going out as far as we see spectral lines of other elements, and Brent, step in here, I'm trying to get across the idea that the element is the same element, whether it is at the Earth or whether it is a light year from here, correct?
unidentified
That's correct.
That's correct.
linda moulton howe
So for the density of aluminum to change between the Earth and, say, another solar system, would it make sense that the density would change just because it was in a different part of the universe?
neil slade
No, not unless it was experiencing a very high gravitational field of some sort.
No, I would think more that you've had some sort of intelligence process the material to the way it is right now.
I wouldn't expect that to come in naturally without a huge amount of processing.
art bell
Brent, could you create what we have?
neil slade
Well, there's theoretical and there's actually me going out and doing it.
I believe with some difficulty you might be able to, but not for cheap bucks.
art bell
But it's theoretical.
unidentified
Theoretical.
linda moulton howe
Could you take aluminum and change the density from what it should be and increase at 1.6 times?
neil slade
No, I don't know of any process that can do that.
Like I said, the high energy rate forming might do it, but there's extreme difficulty in removing the heat from the material and keeping it dense.
linda moulton howe
So when you say you might be able to reproduce some of this, do you mean the bismuth magnesium layering?
unidentified
That could be done.
art bell
But not the aluminum density.
unidentified
No.
art bell
The question is, do you know of any current use for this supposed outside skin that we have, the way it's layered and so forth and so on?
Is there any current use for that?
neil slade
Well, there may have been 40 years ago for an ablative shield for spacecraft nose cones or bodies trying to maneuver through the atmosphere, the ICBMs and things like that.
Protective Material for Reentry 00:02:05
unidentified
But it would be on the launch side.
neil slade
Reentry uses typically different materials such as phenolic carbon and plastics that burn away.
So here you'd have a need for a material that has structure to weather the elements and provide some sort of protection for the inner vehicle.
The way the material is laid out, you get a very poor heat conduction through the sample and very good heat conduction along the sample.
So it has a tendency to dissipate the heat of friction through the atmosphere out over the entire surface, which is good.
You want to spread that heat off the nose cone or off the leading edge of your vehicle as far back as you can so that you can radiate it.
art bell
All right.
Well, whatever all of this is, the early thoughts were that somebody was hoaxing us into sending us a bunch of junkyard stuff.
It isn't that, is it?
unidentified
No.
No.
Not your aluminum samples.
neil slade
And certainly the other sample with the business of magnesium has seen an interesting history in itself.
linda moulton howe
And it sounds like that would be consistent where the source wrote in his letter that it was found as the undercoating on the craft.
And it appeared, at least if the source is correct, as a coating to the disk, then what you're describing, for whatever reasons, it might have been used as a protective shield in some part of this craft.
unidentified
Right, right.
neil slade
You don't have to be high-tech in all your applications.
You just have to use good sound engineering.
And perhaps somebody else has figured out how to do that some other location.
Singular Holes Mystery 00:15:28
art bell
Brent, thank you very much.
That was Brent, a nuclear engineer at Westinghouse Hanford Company in Richland, Washington.
And I'm trying to be very careful, as I know you are, Linda, in presenting this piece by piece by piece so people may understand what it seems to be that we have on our hands here.
And I think we've done that in the last couple of hours.
Now, I have promised the audience that they could ask questions, but I wanted them to understand exactly where we are.
And I think you've been very careful and plotting and meticulous in describing where we are with all of this and how strange it really is.
linda moulton howe
Right, I hope so, because this is what we should never overstate in.
We have a mystery, and we need to do good science as best we can, and that's what we're trying to do.
art bell
And I have watched you and listened to you from the beginning when you and I both thought maybe junk, maybe a hoax, and then sort of a tentative, gee, what's this?
And then a more careful, oh my, look at this.
And through the weeks here, as there's been a careful investigation, you have become excited and intrigued.
And now we're to the point where we've really got something fairly solid in the weeks to come or in the days or weeks to come with more testing.
I presume the bigger the mystery, the more they're going to jump into the middle of it.
linda moulton howe
They've got to try now some tests that could look at the crystal structure, that could see what kind of isotopes are there.
And probably each test is going to either solve something, resolve something, or it's going to raise more questions that will go on to more tests.
And so I would say we're on a journey here.
And until we have some kind of an answer, or everybody throws up their hands and says, we can't solve this density issue, which I think would be surprising in 1996 if we can't even come up with why there is a density in homework.
art bell
Unless, the big unless.
All right, hold on, Linda.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More Somewhere in Time coming up.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31st, 1996.
art bell
Good morning, everybody.
We're talking with Linda Bolton Howe, Emmy Award-winning documentary producer, a science investigator, crop circles, animal mutilations, and most recently, what may be the smoking gun, or in this case, smoking aluminum, and more.
Parts that we've received that are really tremendously anomalous.
It's kind of freaky.
If you want to ask Linda Howe a question, I promise as soon as we get back to her in a moment, we're going to open the lines, and it's your turn.
So, you know the phone numbers.
Back now to Linda Moulton Howell.
Linda, welcome back.
linda moulton howe
Thank you.
art bell
And thank you for staying up so late.
linda moulton howe
Yeah, well, this is turning out to be very interesting and educational for me, too.
art bell
Let us go to the phones and see what the audience has to say about all of this.
Your turn now with Linda Moulton Howe on the first time caller line.
You're on the air.
unidentified
Where are you?
This is Phil in Prescott.
art bell
Prescott, Arizona.
All right, Phil.
unidentified
Yes, hello, Art.
Hello, Linda.
Hi.
I had a question wondering.
You were talking about the density of the metal and its environment.
Could that metal be made that way if it were in an environment like a black hole?
art bell
Oh, I would think so.
Or something less significant even than a black hole.
In other words, in a very different gravitational environment, as the nuclear physicist said a few moments ago, you could produce that.
So the answer would be yes, I guess, right?
linda moulton howe
We really should do more interviews now with people who are physicists and specialty in this whole area of density.
I hope to do that myself in the coming week.
I feel that we're in an area where it's difficult for us to give any hard answers right now because all of the people that I have talked to so far who are professionals are having a difficult time understanding how density would be 1.6 times.
They're having a difficult time with that.
So the mechanism of how that would be accomplished, we need to learn more about.
art bell
Okay.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
Hi.
Good morning, Linda, and good morning, Art.
unidentified
Good morning.
My name is Reggie.
I'm calling from Vallejo.
guillermo gonzales
About I'm calling concerning the dating of the aluminum pieces that you have.
The possibility, well, I'm thinking of in pre-Columbian art, forgeries are identified by taking the cross-section and measuring the thickness of a patina, which is the effect of the environment on the material.
So if your electron microscopy could measure that thickness, you might have something to work with.
linda moulton howe
My understanding was that there really wasn't much in the way of oxidation of a lot of these pieces.
art bell
So that without the oxidation, you couldn't do that.
linda moulton howe
There's not a surface.
Now, aluminum usually does combine with oxygen, and you get an aluminum oxide coating very often.
But one of the interesting things has been how shiny actually the surfaces of many of these pieces are.
art bell
Yes.
Yes, and it should have oxidized.
So that's weird, too.
And that may I wonder if that relates to the density problem in some way.
linda moulton howe
Or how that was manufactured in the first place, because I think it's very safe for us to say that we're dealing with manufactured pieces.
No question about it.
Whether it is here on this earth or someplace else, they're manufactured.
But how they were manufactured, that seems to be what's the growing question here.
art bell
Well, our nuclear man a moment ago basically cautiously said that you could only theoretically do something like this, and he doesn't know of anybody who's ever done it.
linda moulton howe
Right.
But if you were EPs in another solar system, you would still have to use some kind of a manufacturing process to produce this.
So any way you cut it, we are dealing with manufactured pieces that may have different properties, say, than the patina on gold, brass, or bronze in artifacts on this earth.
art bell
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Linda Moltenhow.
Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified
Minneapolis.
art bell
Yes, sir.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
Hi, Linda.
Hi.
I'm just jumping to the, if I may, the chupacabra photo.
I have some information for you on it.
I believe it to be a hoax in the sense that in 1980, 80 or 81, there was a film made in Mexico called The Well Dwellers.
And the creature in that movie looks exactly like the photo.
art bell
Yeah, but you know, I've had at least 10 or 12 people say that they saw a creature that looked like this or that, and it looked like this movie or that movie.
And none of them have been the same.
It's like everybody has seen their own little movie and they say, no, it's from that movie.
Well, I don't know for sure that it's from any movie, and nobody has supplied any evidence yet that it's from any specific movie.
It's easy to call up and say, well, it looks like the creature in such and such a movie until we have evidence or a film clip to go by.
I don't think that is proven.
linda moulton howe
I would agree.
And art often, meaning not you, Art, but the field of art, film, and so forth, very often accidentally imitates life.
It's funny, but it's true.
Sometimes it anticipates things.
And whether or not there's anything that is identical to what these creatures have been by eyewitnesses have been described, I don't know, but I'll say this.
I've seen plaster casts of highly unusual tracks, three-toed tracks, that were prepared by a civil defense engineer in Puerto Rico.
Those are real.
The tracks were real.
That there are, when you interview a veterinarian who is baffled by the puncture wounds in a variety of animals that have been brought to his clinic, including a rabbit that had a quarter-inch wide by four-inch long straw, as straight as a straw hole going from the lower part of the jaw directly into the brain.
And when in the necropsy, the veterinarian could find no hemorrhaging even in the brain and is still baffled by that, you begin to enter into why you have to give some serious consideration to the eyewitnesses because the animals constitute the evidence.
There are now literally hundreds of animals that have been brought to clinics and to police officers in various places.
art bell
I've heard up to 2,000 now.
linda moulton howe
Well, in terms of the ones that have been examined, I would say they've been examined in the hundreds.
And they have these odd puncture marks.
And they are not the multiple fang marks of coyotes and wolves in the sense that I literally have a hundred photographs of what natural predators do to every kind of livestock.
And there's always multiple puncture holes.
What I'm talking about, and I have seen in videotape and in photographs, are singular holes that, for the most part, don't have fluid blood coming out of them.
There may be a slight fluid around any adjacent hair, but a lot of these holes, the hair has actually fallen out of the follicle around the sort of a crater rim that has been created by inflammation while the animal was still alive.
art bell
Put simply, Linda, some reports, being critical of the whole chupacabra mess, have said, ah, it's nothing but dogs.
linda moulton howe
The problem with dogs, I've seen so many photographs of dog attacks, a dog can clamp onto something and it will leave, let's say it's going to leave four or six or eight chop marks, and they aren't going to be necessarily very symmetrical.
And quite often, dogs literally will tear something apart in a frenzy.
That's well known when dogs really get into something.
art bell
So these are not typical dog attacks at all, are they?
linda moulton howe
No, no, and this is now going by a veterinarian's examination of several animals ranging from birds to rabbits to goats.
The holes are well defined.
I've seen the photographs in the videotape myself.
The punctures have ranged on an average of three-quarters of an inch by a quarter of an inch.
And then there are these other strange ones like the four-inch long.
Well, there's no known thing that would make a four-inch straight tunnel from the lower jaw into the brain.
As Dr. Soto said, what could make this kind of a penetrating hole and not leave any hemorrhaging along the root of it?
These are the kinds of anomalies that we don't understand.
And when you then go to the fact that people in Puerto Rico and Mexico and in further geographic areas are describing a creature that sounds similar, I think you also have to give some deference to those large now numbers of eyewitness testimony.
art bell
All right.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
unidentified
Hello, Art.
art bell
Hi.
unidentified
I'm with 1190KX in Oregon.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
I was wondering if those mills would ever give people any strange illnesses.
art bell
Well, again, to answer that question, we have tested, thankfully, I'm glad I asked that question, for radiation and there is no apparent radiation, correct, Linda?
unidentified
Right.
art bell
All right.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
unidentified
Hello.
Hi, Linda and Art.
Hello.
This is Danny from Everett.
art bell
Yes, sir.
unidentified
On your piece that you described of the layered magnesium and another material, I'd like to give you an idea to explore that.
Yes.
There is a company in Squim, Washington, that bonds material together with dynamite underwater.
And they literally slam it together and it forces it together.
So you can turn one side over and it'll be cop, let's say copper on one side and aluminum on the other for our local aerospace giant.
linda moulton howe
Okay, and what is the name of that company?
unidentified
I really couldn't tell you.
It's been so long ago since I've done any business with them.
It was on West Quimbay Road.
That's about all I can tell you.
art bell
I can tell you.
If you manage to find the name of the company, sir, by all means let us know and we'll definitely investigate.
But again, it would seem almost impossible with the process that he described and the layering that you described in the microns.
Linda Moulton Howe Reveals 00:15:51
art bell
It just wouldn't seem to lend itself to that process, would it?
linda moulton howe
Well, we need to learn more.
It doesn't make sense to me, but then this is one of the areas that Brent and I talked about of doing more research on this impact bonding, this explosive bonding, and so I'll see what more I can learn.
art bell
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
Where are you, please?
unidentified
This is the Kansas Core Inservative, Art.
art bell
Yes, sir.
unidentified
Linda?
Yeah.
Would it be possible to take some aluminum and put it in a centrifuge and spin it up to about 100 Gs and melt it down at that 100 G and see what kind of a density we could get out of it?
linda moulton howe
Well, that would certainly be an interesting experiment to do.
Do you know anyone who's done that?
unidentified
No, but I can't think of any reason why anybody would have done it until now.
It'd be kind of complicated to do, but it wouldn't be that impossible.
art bell
Well, if you're suggesting that somebody would have done this and then produced these other materials sent that Linda described, it would be an incredibly expensive way to do a hoax, and it's almost impossible to believe that that would have occurred.
Is anybody suggesting that, Linda?
linda moulton howe
I don't think at this point anybody is suggesting that somebody would have the ability to hoax what we're discussing at this point.
unidentified
Right.
art bell
It's gone a little far for that.
unidentified
Yeah.
art bell
Okay.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
Where are you, please?
unidentified
Kansas City, Missouri.
art bell
Yes, sir.
unidentified
Turn the radio down.
art bell
Turn it off, actually.
unidentified
Okay.
What I was going to say is one other hypothesis on the density of the aluminum is that it could have been made nanotechnologically by individually arranging the atoms in the crystalline structure in a denser model because crystals have a certain amount of space in them because the way atoms naturally line up.
If you could use nanotechnological manufacturing processes to line them up in a denser manner, you could achieve a better density in aluminum different isotope.
art bell
All right, but as far as well, I'm sure that's right.
If you had the nanotechnological ability to do that, which as far as I know, we don't yet have.
I mean, that's all theory, correct?
unidentified
Right.
I'm not saying that we could have done it by any means.
I'm not, you know, this is obviously from another planet or some other technology somewhere else.
I'm saying we're on the edge of developing nanotechnology here on Earth.
art bell
It is true.
unidentified
So any other advanced civilization would presumably be further down the road than us.
art bell
So again, your guess, sir, is that it is elsewhere.
unidentified
Obviously.
Well, I can't say obviously yet, but I think that what you're pointing at is one of the directions that we're going to be looking at in terms of this crystallography and the isotope studies and if in fact we're dealing with material in which the atomic structure, the literal internal workings of the atomic structure have somehow been, I don't know if the word tampered, but manipulated, we are clearly getting into a category of material that we can't do.
art bell
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
unidentified
Hello.
art bell
Hello there.
Bye.
Wildcard Line.
You're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
unidentified
Yeah, hi, Art and Linda.
Recently, this is addressed to you, I guess, Art.
Recently, your friend Wayne Green was on, and he was telling us about this cold fusion process.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
And he made this statement that the objects you're fusing or dealing with, You start out with less than 20 atomic weight, and after you progress for some days, I didn't write down all the details, but you have above 80, an atomic weight of above 80, from below 20 to above 80.
So anyway, I just thought I'd throw that in.
art bell
All right.
Well, we appreciate it.
Thank you.
On the first time, Caller Lynn, you're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
Hello.
unidentified
Yes.
robert felix
My question is for Linda.
Linda, have you dealt with Stanton Friedman at all?
linda moulton howe
Yeah, Stanton and I called tonight because he was so curious about what he'd heard about the preliminary findings that he called me, and we had a long conversation.
And after talking tonight, he is now even further intrigued.
He said that if this density is, in fact, 1.6 times above 99% aluminum should be, that that is, for his point of view, that is one of the most impressive findings that he's heard of.
robert felix
And to follow up, he is renowned for the Roswell investigations.
He's talked to everybody there.
And I'm having him up here at Great Falls for a lecture.
And I've talked to the man extensively.
It just seems like he'd be your best bet to try and correlate who this mystery man might be.
linda moulton howe
If we had more data points, yes, Stanton and I would be talking about that very issue.
But we need the data points of what specific date, what specific location, what connection this person had with which particular military or intelligence group.
Right now, we don't know anything beyond a grandfather and a Roswell crash.
And even Stanton, in his own files, has hard data on many more than one Roswell crash.
art bell
Now, you're giving me new information, Linda.
I had no idea you had talked to Stanton Friedman.
linda moulton howe
Oh, tonight, yeah.
I guess it was because he was asking me more questions.
It was my...
art bell
Well, as you unwound the information to Stanton, how would you describe his reaction?
linda moulton howe
He's definitely impressed with the nature of the evolution of what we have discovered.
As he said, if you truly have eliminated the possibilities of error in the lab.
art bell
And we have, haven't we?
linda moulton howe
And as far as I'm concerned, as far as the scientist who has gone back and recalibrated and they've tried different scales even, I mean, when you go into multiple scales and you keep getting the same results, I think that we are past the point of arguing whether there could be lab mistakes on the scale calibration.
Assuming all of that is correct and that the density is 1.6 times what aluminum should be, that, like what everyone else says, Stanton has fingered as being this has got to be explained or resolved.
And if it continues to lead us into areas where we find and we talk about the whole isotope issue and about biography.
art bell
Time-wise, we've got to hold it.
Stay right there.
We'll be right back.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31st, 1996.
Tonight, tonight we're going to make it happen.
Tonight will put all of the things aside.
Give him this time and show me some affection.
Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 31st of May, 1996.
art bell
Good morning to you, everybody.
I'm Art Bell.
For 30 more minutes, and then we're going to let her go to sleep.
Linda Moulton Howe is here, kind of a special event in view of what's been discovered about the materials that were sent to me.
Remarkable.
All right, it's very late on the East Coast, so that's where Linda Moulton Howe is.
In view of the careful scientific presentation with regard to the materials that I've got and the results thus far, Linda, I'm going to get a lot of inquiries because of this from the press and from scientific sources, you know, genuine inquiries.
And I would like to be able to point them in your direction.
Can I do that?
linda moulton howe
Yes, I think that's good.
And where we stand basically is we're still in the preliminary evolutionary aspects of trying to understand what we've got.
But certainly I feel it's important for the media to be aware of what's happening.
And when we have something really, I hope, definitive, we can do an entire report.
art bell
All right.
In the meantime, as the inquiries come, I'll send them your way.
unidentified
Okay.
art bell
All right.
First time caller line.
You're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe in Philadelphia.
Hello?
unidentified
Yes, Art.
I've been trying to get in touch with you for a couple days since I've been hearing about this aluminum deal.
art bell
Yes, where are you?
unidentified
Baton Rouge.
Okay.
I hear a lot of these guys that call in and sound like they're a lot of experts.
Sound like they really know what they're talking about.
I'm no expert.
I was in chemical.
I'm a fifth-year general study student at LSU, but this, I mean, I've got a prediction for your sample.
Sure.
You take a little bit of it, melt it down, and let it cool down and let it form into a solid again.
It's going to have normal density.
linda moulton howe
Well, that's one of the things we're going to look at, but it wouldn't explain why all of these pieces have a weight that is and a density that is 1.6 times what it should be.
That's the part we're trying to understand.
If it does return to normal, then we have also another part of the story, but we haven't done that yet.
unidentified
And I'm not saying whether it was made here or on another planet or by extraterrestrials or whatever.
I firmly believe that a lot of things that we find today deep in the ground or whatever that were made, they found metals that we can't even make today around Noah's One of the things that I'm suggesting is that this metal was made under a very high pressure.
Much higher than the atmospheric pressure of the earth that we have.
art bell
Well, that is one distinct possibility, isn't it, Linda?
linda moulton howe
Yes, and that's what we were referring to earlier in the program when I was going through step by step.
And what we've been learning is one of the reasons to look at the crystal structure and the isotope structure and a lot of other things is that if this is a manufacturing process that's been able to affect the number of neutrons or some other arrangement of the atom, we're dealing with a technology that everyone that I've talked to so far says we can't do yet.
art bell
Right.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Linda Moulton-Howe.
Where are you, please?
unidentified
This is Bob in Kansas City.
art bell
Kansas City.
Okay, Bob.
unidentified
Yeah, Linda, during your measurements earlier, you came up with a 1.86.
What were you measuring that?
linda moulton howe
We were talking about the density of these aluminum artifacts, and the figure is 1.6.
unidentified
Yeah, but during that, you also came up with a 1.86 for something, and I'm not sure what it was.
I know you had the 1.6.
linda moulton howe
I'll go back over the part which is that each of those little squares weighed 160 milligrams.
unidentified
The reason I asked that is because 186 is like 186,000 miles per second, like the speed of light, the speed of sound, and it's like pie.
linda moulton howe
But there is no number in my report that is 1.86.
unidentified
I thought I heard you say that.
linda moulton howe
No, no, there's no number that's 1.86.
unidentified
The only thing I might suggest is put that one of those pieces through the cyclotron down there at Columbia University where they bombard it with nuclear and go through the material.
linda moulton howe
Yes, the non-invasive neutron.
Well, this has come up also, and these are all, I think that if we made a list of all the tests that people would be done, it would be about 25 or 50 lines long.
And what we're up against is how do we do priorities and get the most out of each of the tests that we are able to do?
And right now, I don't know exactly how we're going to do that.
art bell
All right.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
unidentified
Hello.
Hi, Mr. Tyler.
This is Sheldon from Wisconsin.
I spoke with you earlier today.
Sorry I didn't identify who I was.
I'm the one that wanted to remind your audience on our show tonight that your glimpses volume two will not be coming out on time.
linda moulton howe
Oh, yes, thank you.
You called about Art.
This is the labor that I'm in on Volume 2 of Glimpses of Other Realities.
And a lot of people have been writing because I had hoped that I would have this book out this summer.
But it's a very complex book, and it looks like now that the earliest that it will be out will be September of 1996.
And this volume is about high strangeness in several categories.
And I'm going to hope that the weight is worth it.
It's some of the most intriguing material that I've ever come across in my investigative career.
And I'm trying to do it justice in this book.
And sometimes this is the most difficult when you have the highest strangeness material and you want to present it at least as credibly as possible to an audience.
art bell
Of course.
No, I understand.
And so I understand the weight.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
unidentified
Hello.
art bell
Hello there.
unidentified
Hello.
art bell
Yes, sir.
Where are you?
unidentified
In Rochester?
art bell
Rochester, New York.
All right, turn your radio off, please.
unidentified
Yeah, we got it off.
art bell
All right, go ahead.
unidentified
Hi, Linda.
Big fan of yours.
I was going to suggest just for some quick reference, I'm glad I got on.
Years ago in the late 70s, Marcel Vogel, who was a metallurgist, investigated metal samples of Billy Meyer.
linda moulton howe
Right.
unidentified
And I'm just saying, for quick reference, that was put on videotape as he's actually looking through the microscope, electron microscope.
Request for Information 00:05:47
unidentified
And it seems like he's fine.
A lot of things you're saying he found.
And it might be interesting for you to get hold of this tape.
art bell
All right, well, we'll look for it.
And also, Linda, I faxed you something earlier about some anomalous materials that were of the wrong density as well, not by the margin that we have here.
Right, right.
linda moulton howe
We talked about the Yuba Tuba Brazil.
They found that there was a discrepancy in the density of that mag that was magnesium.
And if their calculations were correct, or at least Paul Hill's analysis that they were dealing with, I believe it was magnesium-26 in its purest form, and that was highly unusual.
And so again, the question comes up, are we going to find that if these are artifacts from a flying saucer disc, are all or only some of the materials that make them up of altered densities?
And that again comes back to the analogy I made.
We're all stumbling in the dark because we have the spots of the giraffe.
We don't have the whole giraffe.
We don't have the context of these pieces.
We don't know where they came from.
And the fact that the man at least tells us that the bismuth and the magnesium layered came from the bottom of the craft is helpful.
And one of the things I thought about is that in a lot of photographs over the last 50 years, a lot of the bottoms of the craft almost look like black holes, dark holes.
They don't reflect.
Is it because there is a surface there, or is it because there is some sort of an electromagnetic anomaly or a magnetic anomaly around the craft at that particular point that's related to some sort of material or structure or function underneath the craft?
We may beginning to get some insights, but we just don't have the context within which to place these artifacts even where they were found.
art bell
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Linda Moulton Howe.
unidentified
Good evening.
Hello, Art Bell.
This is Tom Likes.
Just kidding, Art.
How'd you like my personation?
art bell
I don't know.
It wasn't, well, I won't comment.
unidentified
Okay, but could you imagine what he'll be saying if he hears about all this?
art bell
I don't care what he says.
unidentified
I know.
Anyways, Linda.
linda moulton howe
Who is he referring to?
Who are you referring to?
art bell
Another talk host named Tom Likas.
unidentified
He's just a loser who makes fun of art and all of these listeners.
Anyways, Linda, regarding, if I can move to the chupacabra, I'm sorry to change topic.
Is there any relation between the chupacabra and Howard Stern and Baba Bui?
art bell
Yes, there absolutely is.
They look a lot alike.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Linda Moltenhow.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
My name is Mike.
And my request is to, not too long ago, I heard you talking with the person in a color about a Docousteau report of an animal similar to the chupacabra on an island.
Do you remember that?
linda moulton howe
Are you referring to my report?
unidentified
Yeah, Linda's.
linda moulton howe
Yeah, well, that was in Puerto Rico.
unidentified
In Puerto Rico.
My request was that would it be possible for you to communicate with someone in the Jacques Gustau society and maybe communicate with someone in the expedition and interview them live on the radio?
linda moulton howe
Well, you're thinking about them because they would be relevant to what?
I don't know that anybody in Jacques Gusteau's organization would have been investigating land-based unusual creatures.
They are basically focused in the water.
art bell
All right.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Linda Molten Howe.
unidentified
Hello.
Hi, Art.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
Nathan from Camus, D.C. From where?
British Columbia.
art bell
British Columbia.
Yes, sir.
unidentified
Yeah.
Anyways, I was on the internet the other day and I saw that picture of the chupacabra.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
And I make models sort of on the side of my real dog, right?
And it looks sort of almost like a model to me.
But I was wondering where, did that come off a film clip or something?
art bell
We are about, thank you, we're about to learn more about the origin of that photograph.
I have the name of the person who sent it to me who's offering the original photograph.
So we'll know much more about that and be able to tell you more about it shortly as the answer.
linda moulton howe
And it's interesting that that vertebrate biologist's reaction was the same.
He feels that it is a concocted model of pieces of things, but it is not a whole animal.
And that's why if this man who knows anything about the source of the photo has more details, we sure need him.
art bell
Yeah, there you are.
Wildcard Lynn, you're on the air with Linda Molten Howe.
unidentified
Hello.
Yes, I'm Colleen.
glenn campbell
Do you think this chupacabra, do you think these are the creatures that are operating these UFOs and they're coming down here to dwell upon his planet?
linda moulton howe
It's a really interesting question because of the circumstantial, not direct, but the circumstantial links in the appearance of the chupacabras beginning.
Basically, the first hard stories began in a place called Orocovis in the center of Puerto Rico in March of 1995.
Glowing Discs and Mutilations 00:03:50
linda moulton howe
And that's when eight goats were found with these strange bloodless puncture holes in them.
And over the next few months leading up to sort of the June to September of 95 period, there were several reports by people seeing discs, mostly round-shaped discs.
And one of the most interesting, I've talked with this man.
He does speak broken English.
He is a father, has a, she was six years old last year, seven years old now, and his wife, and they live in a part of Puerto Rico called Vega Baja.
And they have a chicken coop and farm areas like so many of the people who live out in the rural areas.
And it was 11 o'clock or 11.30 in the evening in June.
It was hot.
And his wife and his daughter were outside of their house.
The father, who I interviewed, was on the inside of the house and he heard them scream.
He ran out the door and saw this enormous round glowing object near their house in the sky hovering in the air.
It had lights going around the perimeter.
And his wife told him that a red beam of light came out of this object and touched the upper right arm of the child and that that's what the screams were about.
And the father said that it got red and bubbled up.
Well, a friend of mine, a photographer for one of the newspapers in Puerto Rico, Eddie Deez Conde, he went out there to interview them and could see that there were bumps in a pattern on the little girl's arm.
He took photographs of the father who did draw what they saw in the sky.
In that case, I think that with three witnesses, two adults, that something of a large, round, glowing nature was connected with some kind of a beam that interacted with that little girl's arm.
There have been other cases in Mexico where children and adults have described silver disks landing in pastures and areas where either the same day or in and around the same time there have been these alleged attacks that leave these puncture holes.
And I started to say earlier that I had talked with a federal marshal who told me that as recently as three years ago in August of 93, he on his own farm near the Kansas-Colorado border that he couldn't believe that a silver dome 50 feet wide,
and he gauged that against his own fence post, 50 feet wide and no higher than about 12 feet, so definitely a disc-shaped object, was sitting in his pasture and the next morning found a steer calf with the classic excisions of a mutilation.
These are happening around us now in the chupacabra, regardless of what it is or where it comes from, it fits into a pattern of highly unusual animal deaths that appear to be circumstantially associated with sightings of some kind of discs in the air.
Hard Evidence Matters 00:07:27
art bell
You know, I sort of, and I know you do, separate the kinds of evidence that we get, whether it's with regard to the parts submitted to me or the chupacabra.
In the case of the parts given to me, we've got something we can really lay our hands on and really subject to honest to God scientific investigation.
Ditto, when you get to the chupacabra, you've got animals that you can autopsy.
And people need to understand this is not just eyewitness testimony.
This is good, hard evidence in both areas.
unidentified
That's right.
linda moulton howe
Exactly.
And in the cattle mutilations, it's probably one of the largest single body of physical evidence over the last 47, 37, 40 years of a very unusual interaction with large animals down to small animals on this planet that have been documented over and over and over again.
But I guess it's because of paradigms.
Human nature wants to deny that which it's not comfortable with.
art bell
Magic.
Regards it as magic.
Linda, look, we're coming to the end of the segment, and I'm going to let you go to bed.
But before you do, I want you to give out, because of the unusual presentation tonight, I want you to be able to give out your contact information.
unidentified
Thank you.
art bell
You've got videotapes and books available, but also if people want to get hold of you regarding chupacabra, regarding the pieces that are undergoing the continuing increasingly interesting testing process.
All right, Linda, I presume this story will continue to unfold both of the intriguing parts I now have and of the arts parts and of the chupacabra, which is a fascinating story.
And I want to thank you for staying up late.
It is just that this whole thing has kind of come to the point where we had to get some of this information out, and I feel safer with it in the public domain.
linda moulton howe
Yes, I think so.
As long as we're careful and we are limiting what we communicate to just what we have found so far, and hopefully in another month or so.
art bell
All right, we've got to go once again.
All right, thank you, Linda.
linda moulton howe
Take care.
art bell
Good night.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell
First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
Hello.
This is Sherry from Las Vegas.
art bell
Hi, Sherry.
unidentified
I just want to say I really enjoyed your show earlier tonight with Linda, and I always do.
My husband and I listen to you all the time.
art bell
Thank you.
unidentified
And I wanted to say I was real sorry to hear about your wife's asthma attack, and our daughter has asthma really bad, too.
art bell
Yes, it was a close call.
unidentified
Well, we found that you know the magnetic that you have on your water conditioner.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
Well, we also bought a magnetic necklace for our daughter who has asthma, and it has really helped her.
art bell
I just thought I would call and it's true that magnetics do very, very interesting things, and there may be application in the health arena.
So, you know, you may be on the right track, and I'd be very interested to know how it turns out.
unidentified
Well, she's been wearing it about two weeks, and the other night she went to bed without it on, and sure enough, she woke up with an asthma attack.
So, I just thought you might be interested to know, and maybe, you know, you can always try it.
art bell
You bet.
Thank you.
I appreciate the suggestion.
It was a close call.
It was a very close call.
It was a very serious, very serious asthma attack, and it scared the hell out of me.
And, you know, I've been through a lot of them with her.
She's had it since she was a child, but nothing of this magnitude.
And it was close.
You know, it was close.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
Hi.
art bell
Hello.
unidentified
Yeah, is this Art?
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
Okay, cool.
Is this Doug and Chico?
art bell
Yes, sir.
unidentified
And you talked about Timothy Leary dying, and no one else called to talk about it, so I figured I would.
Okay.
Did you know what his last request to be done with his remains was?
art bell
I believe he wanted to be launched into space.
unidentified
That's right.
Yeah.
And I heard, and I was hoping you could confirm this, Wood, that he actually had space on the next shuttle that he was going to be delivered.
art bell
I think that there is something to it.
I think they may do it.
And I'm sorry, I don't know any more than that.
I know he would like it, and maybe it will be done.
unidentified
All right, thanks.
Good night.
art bell
Good night.
The passing of Timothy Leary, and I'm sorry, we were in the process of arranging an interview.
We'd done a lot of work in that direction.
And sometimes you just don't have enough time.
That's something you all might bear in mind in life.
It came home to me very clearly in the last few days.
And while we're on that subject, I had been prepared to host a, I might as well tell you, a bit of a debate between Dr. Carl Sagan and Stanton Friedman.
And that, too, was in the works.
Carl Sagan is ill, and we wish him the best, and our prayers are with Dr. Sagan.
And assuming he and hoping he will recover, we will probably get around to that pretty soon.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello there.
unidentified
Hello.
art bell
Yes, sir.
Yes, you're on the air.
unidentified
Oh.
Turn that off.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
Yeah, I'm at work right now.
All right.
I was just going to ask you about the Roswell in today?
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
Did you see that Star Trek episode, Deep Space Nine?
art bell
No, I don't watch Deep Space Nine.
unidentified
Oh, you don't?
No.
Oh, okay.
art bell
All right.
Well, somebody's got the radio on, so I'm going to have to go.
unidentified
Oh, okay.
art bell
Thank you.
You've got to turn off your radio, folks, and then keep it off when you get on the air.
Chupacabra Encounter 00:02:43
art bell
You'll just have to trust me that you're on the air, but if you have the radio on, we cannot conduct a conversation.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
All right, how are you doing?
art bell
Okay.
unidentified
This is Mike from California.
art bell
Yes, sir.
reese in el paso
I want to call him for a chupacabra encounter.
art bell
Oh, yes?
unidentified
Down in Puerto Rico.
reese in el paso
I was currently previously in the Navy, and we were stationed down there for reasons I don't need to get into.
And there was a time when there was a lot of rain, and there was a flood in Ponce, and we were walking down the road, and all of a sudden the chupacabra jumped out of the ground, and it jumped into the front of us.
And we proceeded to circle the chupacabra, and it spun around in circles and started hissing at us and this and that and everything else.
We didn't quite know what it was, and there were some Puerto Rican nationals around there that saw us encounter this thing and ran over and told us to get away from it because it's a bloodsucker.
art bell
Right.
reese in el paso
And what it'll do is suck the blood out of animals and yourself.
So have you had any other calls in Puerto Rico like that?
art bell
Well, yes, of course.
We've had many.
Linda Moulton Howe, who was on here, has been to Puerto Rico many times, was investigating the chupacabra business scientifically long before it broke into the popular press.
So we've had many, many reports, and you can say whatever you wish about this, joke as some newscasters do about it, or look at the objective evidence gathered very carefully so far, and you really will come to the conclusion there is something out there.
Whether or not it is what is depicted in the picture sent to us of the chupacabra or the drawings that the eyewitnesses have put together, it's clear there is something going on.
Now, I would like to remind you, all of you, that that picture of the chupacabra, such as it is, and perhaps more importantly, photographs of the artifacts that I've got are available on my webpage, which is www.artbell.com.
Put no space in there.
Again, that's www.artbell.com.
Affinity For Cute Actresses 00:02:24
art bell
So if you wish to see photographs of the parts that are undergoing testing right now and have come out to be so anomalous, those photographs are up there.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
Hello, Art.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
Matt from Idaho?
art bell
Yes, sir.
unidentified
How are you tonight?
Fine.
Great.
That was really interesting earlier with Mendel.
Strange stuff.
Anyway, I wanted to depart.
Listen, I know you have an affinity for cute movie actresses.
art bell
I have an affinity, sir, for cute women, period.
unidentified
Have you heard the actress Tamlin Tomita?
art bell
I've heard the name.
unidentified
Okay.
Have you seen Karate Kid Part 2?
art bell
I have seen portions of it, yes.
unidentified
Okay.
I just met the young lady that was in the storyline over in Okinawa where the Karate Kid meets.
One of my favorites.
I was wondering if anybody knew of any other kind of work she's ever done, any other movies or anything.
art bell
Well, let us ask.
bill doleman
But yeah, who would you say, who would you say your top five are, you think, as far as actresses and things like that?
unidentified
Who else do you like?
art bell
Jean Triplehorn has my attention lately.
Did you see her in Waterworld?
unidentified
I haven't seen Waterworld.
art bell
Oh, really?
I'm bucking popular criticism of it and saying I really liked Water World.
unidentified
I'm going to have to check that one out, Al.
art bell
Trust me on Triplehorn.
Take a look.
unidentified
Okay.
All right.
art bell
Well, listen, thank you very much.
I don't want to name five.
I could, but I won't.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
Good morning, Art.
Ozone Layer Stabilizing? 00:08:29
art bell
Good morning.
jim deardorff
Quite a show you got going on tonight.
art bell
Well, I tried to present some good hard scientific evidence.
unidentified
Amazing.
jim deardorff
I'm basically calling a reference to last night with Major Danes.
art bell
Yes.
jim deardorff
I don't take position with what all he had to say.
And actually, anything he had to say, there was uncontents of it.
unidentified
There was no original thought there.
jim deardorff
Everything he said is well-known knowledge.
art bell
Oh, it is?
unidentified
Absolutely.
art bell
I see.
I hadn't heard anybody say it before.
Well, in other ways, I had, I guess.
unidentified
Absolutely.
jim deardorff
And to give some balance to that on CNN today.
art bell
Although not about the babies.
Now, where have you heard that?
jim deardorff
Well, working with the psychic field myself, I have heard the same thing.
unidentified
Oh, I see.
jim deardorff
Actually, I've heard children who themselves psychic say that they don't expect to live more than 12 years old.
unidentified
Recently been born within this decade.
jim deardorff
So it's amazing how this does come to pass.
But the definite balance to it is that we have the ability to heal this planet.
And what I wanted to tell you is on CNN today, they actually reported that scientists are saying that the ozone layer is restoring itself.
art bell
Yes, I heard that.
unidentified
Oh, yes.
jim deardorff
So if we actually mentally worked on that, it was spiritual healing, we could heal this planet.
And with the psychic bullet that Major Dames gave us last night, it's definitely, you know, we are in the midst of a psychic warfare here.
art bell
All right, sir.
Thank you.
There is some recent news that the ozone layer would appear to be stabilizing.
But that's not a surprise because all along we have known that ozone is cyclical and that it is probably cyclical with the with the sun's 11-year cycle.
So I'm not sure that answers all of the questions, but it is good news.
And they indicated that though there are still CFCs rising and will be for a number of years, we may have passed the peak regarding the destruction caused by man-made chemicals.
That is not to say that what the major said yesterday may not be so.
It in fact may be so.
Many, many people are saying roughly the same thing.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi, Arbill.
This is Mark in Little Rock.
Hello.
How are you doing, this morning?
Fine.
I've been listening to the Roswell discussions for the past couple of weeks now.
A bunch of our friends up here at the job that I work in, we work at night.
And we were all wondering, could it be that the pieces could be put to some form of high-intense acid and analyzed through that viewpoint or something like that?
art bell
I would have no idea, sir.
I'm not a scientist.
I'm only giving you the results so far from the scientists.
unidentified
Okay.
And I wanted to comment about the super cover.
Yes.
You know, that thing does look real.
But I thought the eyeballs on it looked to be kind of dry.
And I was wondering, I kind of questioned the truthness of the photo.
art bell
Well, I have no way of verifying that it is a hoax or real or anything else, sir.
It was given to me.
I didn't take it.
unidentified
Okay, thanks a lot.
You're welcome, sir.
art bell
Little Rock, Arkansas, President's Home.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
Hello.
My name is Michael.
I'm in California.
art bell
Hi, Michael.
unidentified
How do you?
One thing, first of all, I'd like to just give my respects to Tim Dee Leary.
I think he'll be noted in history for having been rather courageous at some point, if we have that history.
And then quickly about UFOs, I was once told that one of their reasons for perhaps being here is to take elements out of the ocean water that there's a large cache of there to be had, and that may explain something to do with your pieces of art that could be made in a different way, but actually contain elements present on this planet.
And that layering, I believe, might be folding like it's done in satellite sword making.
And one other quick thing is that I don't know of anything that flies well when left and right wings are in conflict with one another and don't last long in the air.
art bell
That was a political comment.
unidentified
Yes, that was.
All right, thank you.
art bell
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
Oh, darn.
art bell
Oh, darn?
You don't want to be on the air then?
unidentified
No, I'm sorry, Art.
I had my radio on.
I never expected to be on the air.
art bell
Well, when you call, you should imagine it might happen, sir.
unidentified
My goodness.
edward a mcculloch
That's Mike from Boffal, the heart earthquake country here, Washington.
unidentified
Yes, sir.
edward a mcculloch
Art, this made me really angry to hear them talking about a fellow that called in about the ozone layer, supposedly restoring it.
So 20 years, I'm a refrigeration mechanic up here.
unidentified
And, yeah, you know, it's just.
art bell
Why did it make you angry?
That is an accurate report.
edward a mcculloch
Well, it may very well be, and it may very well be substantially correct.
But, you know, if you just think about it a little bit, allegedly, ozone takes, or excuse me, allegedly, the CFC's hydrochlorofluorocarbons take 20 years to reach the upper stratosphere and also the ozone, allegedly.
Well, supposedly, we have not been reducing our use of them for that long a period, you know, for that long a period of time.
Hypothetically, the stuff that we supposedly purged into the atmosphere 20 years ago or 15 years ago isn't even up there yet, if you see where I'm coming from.
art bell
I do, and I believe that is correct.
But they have projected that soon or that we have either now or will soon have reached a peak, and that they understand how much continuing CFC rise there will be.
And they're seeing some regeneration of ozone at the moment at those levels.
So, I mean, it's a positive report.
I wouldn't get angry about it.
unidentified
Well, I'm not already.
edward a mcculloch
Just because I don't think it's based and grounded in good science.
unidentified
I really don't.
Geez, I'm sorry, I know.
art bell
People complain.
No, there's no disagreement.
People complained that the science that said there was a depletion was no good science.
And now the science is saying that there is a stabilization, and you're saying it's no good science.
unidentified
Well, it still isn't.
I think it's a good thing, okay?
edward a mcculloch
I'm not saying that.
Other than getting a, you know, who wants to get suntan in 10 minutes, you know, when you go outside, right?
unidentified
Obviously.
Shoot.
edward a mcculloch
I'll bring up something else, too, if you don't object to this.
There's one other thing, and this is the way it was sold to us as air conditioning and refrigeration mechanics.
Fellows came around from various companies and said, look, this is an opportunity for you guys to make a lot of money here.
You know, I don't know if you want to air this, but I mean, this is the truth.
You know, you guys shouldn't look at this as a negative thing.
We don't like the stuff, Bart, frankly.
A lot of us guys just hate this stuff.
The new refrigerants that are out there, there's a lot of problems with them, and that's the truth.
The toxicity kind of thing is still up in the air, you know, as far as their effect on us.
And the oils that we've got to work with are a nightmare.
And we've just got a lot of problems with this stuff.
art bell
All right, sir.
Well, I appreciate the call.
I've heard that from others.
Somebody on AOL is telling me that Tamalyn Tamara is it.
Her credits include the Joyluck Club.
I saw that.
That was actually, you know, a chicks movie, but it was good.
Including Picture Bride and the plot for Babylon 5.
And then she quit.
So there's somebody on AOL with information requested a few moments ago.
And again, I am presently on American Line.
All Right, It Is Worth Sitting Up For 00:03:38
art bell
If you want to join in the chat room that I'm in, simply go online, hit keyword.
When you get keyword, just type in Art Bell.
Then it will take you to an area.
Actually, it'll bring up a photograph of me, and you can check a little area.
It says go to the Grassy Knoll chat room, and you will instantly be in with the group.
First time call our line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
This is Rick on Honolulu.
How are you doing?
art bell
I'm fine, Rick.
unidentified
Quick question.
I know you must have gone over this earlier, but for benefit of people out here who are listening on KHBH, sometimes we get the first part of your show cut off.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
Could you bring up the details a little bit on how the density of the chips was verified to be consistent throughout so that there wasn't like a poor dance piece of metal burning?
art bell
We went through such a serious presentation by Linda Howe.
Let me ask you this.
How much more of the show are you going to be receiving tonight?
unidentified
Well, we get the whole thing.
They rebroadcast.
I think it runs till 3 a.m. here.
art bell
And what time is it now?
unidentified
It's about 12.30 now.
art bell
All right, then, in about 30 minutes, you're going to get the whole thing explained to you in exquisite detail.
unidentified
That's worth sitting up for, and I will do it.
art bell
All right, it is worth sitting up for, as a matter of fact.
Don't miss it.
All right?
unidentified
Thank you.
art bell
Thank you.
And we'll be right back.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
You're listening
to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 31st, 1996.
Well, here it is Saturday morning again.
art bell
Or if you're hearing this in a repeat, if it's Monday morning, right now it's Saturday morning.
Listen, if you get a repeat of this, folks, or you get the first or second hours repeated, which many of you will.
Hawaii will get the whole ball of wax and many other areas as well.
You're going to hear a careful scientific explanation of what's being found out about these now very anomalous pieces that have been sent to me, ostensibly from the Roswell crash of a UFO.
I suggest you listen very carefully if you are interested in real scientific evidence.
It's coming up.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Yeah, I was wondering, what do you think about them?
Do you hear that on the air?
art bell
Do I hear what?
unidentified
I don't know.
It must be just on my phone.
About them taking the press away from the Freeman?
art bell
Well, yes, they moved the press back about another half mile.
Two Scenarios Explained 00:03:03
unidentified
What do you think about that?
art bell
Well, I think it may mean one of two things.
Either the press misbehaved, as in CNN, and they're being punished, or the FBI has plans and doesn't want the press nearby when it happens.
What do you think?
unidentified
I just wish they could be a lot more open about the whole thing.
art bell
How much more open should they be?
unidentified
Well, with the way, I mean, the way all of us can come together and talk on this kind of a program and the way they can, on TV, they can have a program in New York and show a picture of a man talking at the same time in Washington.
With all this technology, it just seems like the whole thing could be solved real peaceably and open and talk.
art bell
It sure could.
And all they've got to do is come out and they'll have their opportunity.
unidentified
Yeah.
I think they're scared.
art bell
Do you?
unidentified
Yeah, and I mean, I heard that.
art bell
Well, in that case, you know what you can do?
You can put your hands up, and you can say, we're coming out, and wave a white flag, and come out.
unidentified
Well.
Well.
art bell
What's the matter with that approach?
unidentified
Yeah.
art bell
Beats getting shot.
And when you've got women and children in there, if you're a real man, you get them out first, don't you?
If you're going to fight a battle, wouldn't real men, you know, they free men, wouldn't real men get the children and the women out?
unidentified
Well, I mean, I heard that they had already taken one man into custody and had tortured him and everything.
Did you hear that?
art bell
Yes, I've heard that.
I don't know if I believe that.
I don't think the FBI actually tortures people.
unidentified
Okay, well, thanks.
Well, you're welcome.
art bell
Look, this can be ended anytime they want.
This has now gone on longer than Waco.
They want to end it.
They want to have their forum.
They will have it.
Surely the press will follow what they say.
Surely there will be trials and there will be opportunities for them to say what they want to the press, but not if they're dead.
Then dead men and women and children don't get an opportunity to say anything.
And if this goes on and keeps going on, eventually there is going to be a dynamic resolution to it.
So I'll say again to them what I've been saying.
Enough already.
It's time to come out.
And if you have decided that instead you're going to die for this cause you believe in this whatever it is, Christian identity movement, dandest thing I ever heard of, white supremacy and Christian values.
Whatever it is, if you have Christian values, then send the women and children out first.
Sunday's Mystery Guest 00:14:19
art bell
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Yes, Art.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
Yes, this is Ken in Fort Wayne.
art bell
Yes, sir.
unidentified
Indiana.
art bell
Yes, sir.
unidentified
Friday morning's program, there was a gentleman called in, gave another name for chupacabra, and said it was in the Bible about a body of two very bloody opposing societies.
Do you recall the name he gave that?
It started with the C.
art bell
No, I don't.
I'm sorry, maybe he'll call back in.
unidentified
I hope he does.
I certainly hope he does because I'd like some more information on that.
This chupacabra thing is so intriguing.
I got a friend that's following this on his internet.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
It's just weird.
My brother, who studied for the ministry, says this thing is a demon.
art bell
Well, maybe it is.
unidentified
And it ties right in with what that guy was saying Friday morning.
art bell
Maybe it's a fallen angel.
I mean, who knows?
We could speculate till the cows come home, the mutilated cows.
It could be from another dimension.
It could be a simple product of evolution or a step back.
It could be something from the past.
It could be something from.
Who knows?
I certainly don't.
All I know is there is significant evidence that something really is going on.
You can take it from there.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hi, Art.
This is Jeff up in Wasso, Wisconsin.
art bell
Hello there.
unidentified
How you doing?
art bell
Warsaw, right?
unidentified
Yes, sir.
I'm one of your truck driver listeners that don't get to stop and call much.
But I was, I don't know, did you get the chance to see the Unsolved Mysteries thing about the chupacabra?
art bell
Yes, I did.
unidentified
Okay, now on there, the vet that did the autopsy on the animals mentioned some things that I was kind of surprised to hear that Linda didn't mention, or maybe she's mentioned it before and I haven't caught it, was one that was there was no rigamortis in the animals that had been bitten.
art bell
I have heard that, and I think Linda dealt with it, but I can't recall exactly what she said.
So I will ask her about that perhaps on Sunday.
unidentified
And then one of the other things was that there were other parts mentioned.
She kind of touched on that a little bit with that one about the rabbit that got spiked into the brain there.
Yes.
He had mentioned that he autopsied some animals that, well, one, for instance, where in the chest cavity, all of the internal organs were removed.
art bell
Right.
unidentified
Certain organs, kidney, liver, and all what have you like that.
But I'd listened for that and hadn't heard anybody mention about that.
art bell
All right, well, we'll try and ask about that.
Thank you on Sunday.
She is a regular reporter for us and has been now for years on Dreamland, very faithfully so, and we generally get a report from her at the beginning of Dreamland.
By the way, while I'm at it, if I can do it, let me tell you what's coming up on Dreamland this Sunday.
Coming up this Sunday would be Dr. Pepsi Togar, author of Why God Wants Us to Dream.
So we're going to talk a little bit about dream and interpretation of dreams.
And I've had some real wing-dingers of dreams, and I'm sure you have too.
It's a very, very interesting subject coming up this Sunday on Dreamland.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
linda moulton howe
Hello, Art.
unidentified
Hi.
Whatever happened with Steve from Salt Lake City?
Remember the guy that said his kids were up there in that right.
art bell
I've got his number, and we're going to get back in touch with him.
So nothing else yet, but he's a trucker, and he's in and out.
unidentified
Hard to reach.
Yeah.
Okay.
Another question is, oh, boy.
On the air.
Help me.
art bell
You've lost it, haven't you?
unidentified
Yes, I did.
art bell
Well, all right.
If you can't think of it, I'll move on.
unidentified
Okay.
art bell
All right.
Thank you very much for the call and have a good morning.
It happens.
Brain luck when you get on the air.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified
I got a little scenario to tell you.
It's really brief.
At first, it'll sound like one of those UFO stories that can't be confirmed, but I did get a phone call that confirmed this, but it's not UFOs anyway.
It was during your Dreamland show a couple weeks ago.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
You had someone on that was talking about spirits, reincarnation, and baby spirits being able to choose who they'll be born to.
art bell
Oh, yes.
Uh-huh.
unidentified
And so I was listening to your show, and I was having a lot of coffee, pretty busy, talking with a neighbor, but something came to my mind, an impression of my late older brother who had died at 1974 in my room.
And then I got an impression of he was trying to tell me of a younger entity or something.
And all this was coming to my head, and I just thought, well, I just thought it was thought because I've listened to your show.
And what I picked up was a smaller entity whose first name began with the letter K and ended in E.
So I thought, okay, fine.
But then immediately when your show entered, the phone rang, and I thought, oh, I know this something.
I picked it up, and it turned out to be someone calling, telling me they had a child of one of my siblings that I had not had any contact with any of my siblings.
And right before that phone call, I was thinking of little nieces and nephews, etc.
art bell
Yes.
unidentified
And sure enough, they told me the name, and it began with a K and ended with an E, and I met the little nephew for the first time today, and that's pretty cool.
art bell
That's pretty cool indeed.
Thank you very much for that.
Wow.
unidentified
Coincidence?
art bell
Pretty unlikely, huh?
Listen, if you'd like to join me online, we are on America Online right now.
So if you're able to log in, just log in and go to Keyword.
It's very easy and enter keyword art bell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L.
And it will take you, it'll show you a photograph of me, and it will take you to an area where you have an opportunity to go into what's known as the Grassy Knoll chat room.
And I'm in there at this very moment.
Not able to say much, obviously, when I'm on the air, but would love to have you join in.
There is a wild conversation going on in there right now about all kinds of things.
Once again, that's A-O-L.
Simply go to keyword, Art Bell, and in you go to the Grassy Knoll chat room.
I love that name.
We'll be right back.
All right, this really has been quite a week for me in more ways than one.
It's been a very week in which many things have coalesced, many things have happened.
Personally and professionally, it's been very interesting, to say the least, and scary at times.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
Hello, Art.
art bell
Yes, hello.
unidentified
This is Chris in Farmington, Missouri.
art bell
Sounds like you're in a tin can, Chris.
unidentified
Pretty much, yes.
anton in missoula
I'm sitting in front of my computer on the Grassy Knoll chat room.
art bell
Oh, all right.
unidentified
Just two quick comments.
anton in missoula
One, whenever I heard Charlie Liberal last hour, I about threw a break in my radio.
And two, I've been hearing some of your callers talk about working the night shift.
unidentified
I worked the night shift.
anton in missoula
This happens to be my night off, but I'm still awake at almost 6 o'clock in the morning.
art bell
Okay.
anton in missoula
And, well, I've had no problems with the night shift.
unidentified
I've worked it for about six months, I guess.
And it's enjoyable.
I don't want to work it forever, though.
art bell
Well, I guess I could say get a day job then.
unidentified
Yeah, I'm trying.
art bell
All right.
Well, good luck to you.
unidentified
Thanks a lot, Art.
art bell
Take care.
There is somebody in the Grassy Knoll chat room and on the air.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
rick meister gerhardt in california
Good morning, Rickmeister Gerhardt, conservative in California.
Oh, I can't wait to see how the slime life in the White House is going to try to squirm out of the way of Paula Jones' testimony.
Whitewater is just the beginning of this guy's troubles.
art bell
Well, we'll have to wait and see if there is any testimony.
That's going to depend on a decision in the Supreme Court, I'm sure.
rick meister gerhardt in california
That's right.
Listen, hopefully for the last time about Egypt.
The gentleman in Houston who is so misinformed about the racial composition of the ancient Egyptians is trying to talk about the Hicksaus invasions.
Oh, this is where the white people came from.
Uh-uh.
Uh-uh, pal.
The remains of Ramses I with his blonde hair predate the Hicksaus invasions by at least 12 or 1500 years.
art bell
All right, well, let's let it end here, Rickmeister.
All right?
rick meister gerhardt in california
Well, the Hicksaus invasions were somewhere on the mid-2nd millennium B.C.
And Ramses was like mid-third millennium B.C.
So we just have to end it by saying that the racial composition.
I mean, hey, we have the mummies.
All you've got to do is go and look at the mummies and see the hair on their heads.
And that's all that, you know, that is necessary.
By the way, the largest collection of Egyptian mummies in North America is, believe it or not, in Niagara Falls, Ontario.
art bell
All right, well, then maybe he or you or both of you can go there and stare at hair.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello, Watt.
Hello.
This is James in Oklahoma City.
art bell
Well, you sound all muffled or something.
unidentified
I think I got what your chupacabra is.
art bell
You must have a chupacabra telephone.
unidentified
Well, it's a it's a wild.
art bell
Sounds like all the blood's been sucked out of it.
unidentified
Hello?
Woolway like Rip Paul with the buzz taste.
art bell
All right, thank you.
It's a horrible phone.
I can't even understand you.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
Hey, Rick Meister.
I want to say hello to him.
The mummies have blonde hair.
That's a new one on me.
Art, this is your friend Steve in Phoenix.
Listen, you know, when I wrote that email thing to you, I was under a lot of pressure.
I want to get this clear.
I was being a little sarcastic, and I think about that.
I'm one of your biggest admirers, and I hope you still realize that.
I'm a sensitive guy after I do the.
I was under a lot of pressure because I didn't know how to do it.
You know, I'm not computer literate.
art bell
I see.
Well, we're all under pressure.
unidentified
Let me finish my thought.
I've got something else real quick.
Yeah, we're all under a lot of pressures right.
Last night, I felt like, whoa, man, after listening to the major, you know, oh, boy, well, I could forget, I could stop thinking about earthquakes for a while, but then I woke up this morning and I just about got the definitive answer that Benjamin Yehentata, I still can't pronounce his name, could you give it to me?
art bell
Netanyahu.
unidentified
Yeah, is a winner, and most people I know are pretty thrilled about that.
I'm getting genealogy done.
I'm looking on a map.
I have a small atlas here.
I'm trying to locate Pinsk, P-I-N-S-K.
It's northwest north of Kiev.
It's not located on this.
This is a new one, a small one.
Is it possible that they've changed the name?
And I was just wondering if you could help me with that.
art bell
No, absolutely not.
unidentified
Have you heard of it?
art bell
No.
unidentified
Tinsk.
art bell
Never heard of it.
unidentified
Yeah, it's in Russia.
My grandparents are from there.
art bell
I trust you.
unidentified
Art, one last thing.
I told most of my friends how sometimes Art Bell, when you're listening to him, he's like a close friend.
You know, sometimes you want to put your arms around him, and other times you just want to shake him and say, what are you talking about?
Strangle him.
You got that?
Yeah.
I love you.
art bell
See you.
Bye-bye.
First time caller line.
You're on the air.
unidentified
Hello.
Hello, Art Bell.
art bell
Yes, sir.
unidentified
I've been trying to get you for two weeks.
I've got the solution to your art parts.
art bell
Oh, do you now?
You must be a nuclear scientist.
unidentified
I am a scientist, but I think I'm also from some other planet.
I'm always experimenting.
I have the damnedest curiosity you've ever seen anybody have.
Life is the most interesting thing there is.
Now, I was a lot to it real quick, Art.
I built things.
And I had occasion to make, I've been working with aluminum for 50 years in all phases of it.
Machining it, casting it, and everything.
And I had occasion to make a special storm, and I wasn't into sandcasting and so on, so on so on, so anyway, it ended up this way.
art bell
I don't know what you're talking about.
Planet In Crisis 00:02:27
unidentified
The casting of aluminum?
art bell
The casting of aluminum.
I've got that.
unidentified
Yes.
And it was a special form.
Anyway, and so now the aluminum I used was heavy, coarse-grained cast.
And when I got done with it, it was.
Now, I'm going to hit it very gently on a piece of it on the little object here, and I want you to listen carefully to it.
art bell
Sir?
unidentified
Yes?
art bell
Don't do that to yourself.
That'll give you a headache.
I appreciate the call, though.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified
This is Mike in Madison.
I've got to be the last caller.
art bell
Well, I don't know.
We'll see.
unidentified
Do I get to notch my gun if I am?
art bell
Yeah, I guess you could.
unidentified
Yeah.
You know, I really don't care what color the Egyptians were.
art bell
I'm so sick of that.
unidentified
I think the untold story there is that they ruined their environment.
And the place is a desert, and there's a reason for that.
It once wasn't.
And maybe that was what the major was getting at.
art bell
Maybe.
unidentified
You know, we've played around way too long, gotten way out of control, and now we're going to pay the price.
And when do you think you're going to have that guy on?
I think I want to throw like a large party and have all my friends come.
Really?
art bell
Sort of an apocalyptic jam?
unidentified
Yeah, right.
We'll get all the music together and we'll all get together and maybe have open Bibles and maybe other texts.
art bell
Little prayer sessions, possibly.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
And I think probably you ought to counterpoint the interview with an hour of Elizabeth afterwards.
Just to balance things out, right?
art bell
Yes.
Well, this is absolutely an appropriate way for me to end this program.
There's no question for me.
Especially after the last call, the guy hitting his head like that.
It was sad.
unidentified
Yeah.
That's right.
art bell
All right, Mike.
Why not?
You get the honors.
Wrap up what has been a very difficult, stressful week.
Okay.
unidentified
Art experienced his own personal crisis.
The planet appears to be experiencing a deepening crisis.
The Israelis may be worming their way out of a crisis.
You better say, we love it all, and we love America, and good night.
art bell
Yeah, there you are from the high desert.
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