Art Bell previews a 1 a.m. Pacific debate between Richard Hoagland and Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell amid FedEx delays for key photos, then dissects the ValueJet 592 crash, questioning why critical cockpit recordings were overlooked despite black box recovery. He contrasts DOMA’s potential override of Hawaii’s same-sex marriage recognition with Clinton’s political balancing act, dismissing caller skepticism about moon landings while exploring unverified Roswell materials—pure aluminum squares and blades with embedded silicon and manganese—and Chupacabra sightings spanning the Americas. Bell defends fringe topics against media censorship, critiques Clinton’s Vietnam avoidance as a character flaw, and ends by teasing Hoagland-Mitchell’s moon conspiracy claims, underscoring his show’s role in hosting unfiltered discussions on science, politics, and the unexplained. [Automatically generated summary]
Let me just say, as far as I know, the Richard Hoagland Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell debate is on for tomorrow night.
It'll be 1 o'clock in the morning, actually.
Technically, right now, from this time zone, the day after tomorrow, but tomorrow night, Wednesday morning.
In other words, Wednesday morning at 1 o'clock in the West and 4 o'clock in the East.
It should be an event.
The only thing I'm wondering about right now is I got a call actually on my answering machine from Richard Hoagland's people, panicking, wanting phone numbers so they could get a FedEx delivery of photographs to Edgar Mitchell by air.
Whether they did get it off, whether it'll make it in time is problematic, I suppose, and I hope it will.
Because everybody would like to be working from the same page.
And I predict it could be anything from a 30-second event to a two-hour event, three-hour event.
It's hard to tell.
Really hard to tell.
It depends on how it goes.
And I'm going to let it be as free-wheeling as possible.
I do not like debates in which the parties are completely, as you know, I don't like them, held apart.
You just don't get down to the root of the matter that way.
So I'm likely to do what I usually do and let it be fairly free-wheeling and hope that it will be conducted calmly.
But I wouldn't place any bets on that, so we'll see.
We'll see.
You know about the crash of ValueJet 592, a DC-9 went into the Everglades north of Miami shortly after takeoff, killed, of course, all 109 aboard.
It has very nearly been completely swallowed whole by the alligator snake-infested waters in Florida.
They've recovered now late tonight some body parts.
Fairly small, I'm told.
Five to six minutes in the air, the pilot reported smoke in the cockpit, apparently back with the passengers as well.
The airplane did a couple of long, lazy, uncontrolled-type turns, then turned on its side, then nosedived into the swamp.
Tonight they found the black box.
That's the flight recorder, not the more interesting cockpit recorder.
The flight recorder will only give them information about altitude, speed, attitude, that kind of thing.
The information about the fire, in all likelihood, would need to come from the cockpit recorder.
So another horrible crash into a swamp.
There was another, you know.
And I never know what to say about airplane crashes.
They're going to look into ValueJet.
But in the beginning, they were saying that there were no apparent problems and that ValueJet had been very cooperative.
Now tonight I'm seeing some news saying, well, no, they had some ongoing problems with ValueJet, one of those new, cheaper fare type things.
You know, the DC-9 was 25 years old, but should have been serviceable.
You never know what to say.
What would you do in the last few moments?
You'd be aware it would be horrible.
You would certainly know, as the plane did a nosedive, that you were going to die.
Scream, pray, review your life, tell somebody you love them.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Dear Art, I don't know if anyone else has suggested this, but 20 years ago, there was a book called The Interrupted Journey: An Incident at Exeter.
It was about another fatal air crash in the Everglades as well, December 29th, 1972, called The Ghost of Flight 401.
101 passengers and crew were killed.
Later, appearing on other aircraft, the flight engineer and some of the stewardesses what went down was an L1011.
And I can tell you these stories are true.
There have been ghosts from that crash.
And one day when somebody I know retires from a major airline, it's a good friend of mine, I will have him on and have him tell you about all of this.
He can't do it while he's employed.
But the stories of the ghosts, I can tell you, are true.
And there are stories about ghosts from that flight that have never been told, even in the movie they did on that subject.
Now, about midnight tonight, I haven't decided, midnight or 1 a.m., I'm going to replay a segment in the beginning of Dreamland in which the initial report on the pieces I've got ostensibly from Roswell reports back.
And Linda Howe gave us the details, and I am going to replay that so you get them.
And I don't know where that leaves us.
I kind of thought that it would end up as it has, and that is with no firm answers.
At any rate, we've got a detailed report for you, and I want to know what those parts are.
You'll find out.
There is a distinct lack of any kind of decent issue for the presidential race coming up.
The majority of the issues are social in nature.
The economy is not right now a gigantic problem, and so there's not much ground for Bob Dole to churn up there.
There is one issue, a social issue, that is now coming to a head because there is new legislation that has been proposed.
It is called Defense of Marriage Act.
Now, as you may know, in the state of Hawaii, they may legalize same-sex marriages.
They may do so because the High Court there said that to not do so is discriminatory.
And in the Constitution, should Hawaii legalize, a marriage in one state would, of necessity and by law, by the Constitution, have to be recognized in all other states.
It's the full faith and credit clause of the U.S. Constitution.
This bill would change that.
Eight states have already outlawed same-sex marriages.
The new bill outlaws it by doing the following.
It defines marriage as a legal union between one man and one woman.
You see, we have never defined what marriage is.
Therein lies the problem.
It also says the word spouse refers only to a person of the opposite sex.
A Bill Clinton late today came out and said that he personally opposes same-sex marriages, but he's going to have an incredible choice to make because it looks like this bill is going to pass.
And that means it's going to go to his desk.
And Bill Clinton has enjoyed the political backing of the homosexual community in America.
It's not so sure he would if he were to veto this bill.
So what is he to do?
One good question raised in a discussion over the weekend about this is, does the government have a compelling interest in preventing same-sex marriages?
And if they do, why?
So we've got two things here we could talk about.
One is what is a marriage?
Is this an illogical, improper definition of a marriage?
That being a legal union between one man and one woman.
Now, obviously, if it is defined in this manner, then there will be no same-sex marriages.
The networks have announced they're going to give free time to the presidential candidates.
But the question is, whether all of you will come and see it.
And the probable answer is no.
It was on the Brinkley show Sunday, and they had a discussion about it, and Brinkley and others said, you know, we care about politics.
But I don't want our guys to have to go refight that war either.
What would you do?
What is right?
What is wrong?
Is the moral, there's no question, morally, it's rough, but it's a lot rougher to have to send 500,000 USGIs over to, you know, fight some new war with Saddam.
Yeah, well, I think, I mean, I voted, I'm an independent voter, but I voted Republican since Reagan's second term.
I didn't vote for him the first time.
I didn't vote for any of them the first time he ran.
I don't know.
The way it looks now is that the Republican Party squandered the biggest political advantage they had in history in 1994 by letting old power brokers of the party run stuff and not listening to the people.
And we're going to be stuck with Click Willie again.
And I think it's probably decades before the country recovers.
In fact, he's hardly even you know, I really, really would like to interview Bob Dole.
I have this feeling that the American people don't know Bob Dole.
And if they did, they would feel differently about him.
I'll tell you something.
There has got to be an effort to humanize Bob.
He's got to spend some time with the American people in a forum like this, not meet the press where it's just one rapid-fire political question after another, but rather where the people get to know Bob Dole.
That's what he has got to do to begin to close the gap.
And I would love to do it.
I've got a request in to Dole headquarters, and we'll see.
Yeah, I guess part of the reason why I think people have become disenchanted with politics is both Republicans and Democrats have become one and the same, and people just envision them as both crooks.
When you're talking about the front end of radios, transistors versus tubes, there is no contest.
Transistors have a far better, far better signal-to-noise ratio, and they outperform tubes.
However, in the final stages of audio amplifiers and those sorts of applications, tubes will still produce response that transistors have yet to equal.
It depends on the application, sir.
Thank you very much for the call.
On the first-time caller line, whoops, you would have been on the air.
Amarillo, Texas, I'll tell you a little story here.
I've told it before.
A very good friend of mine, who is still, by the way, a weatherman in Lake Charles, Louisiana, Lynn Whitlake.
Lynn is in my book, incidentally, and the whole thing on tornadoes is in my book, too.
That's when I was stationed at Amarillo Air Force Base, and one of the things we did, because Lynn was a total nut on the subject, and I was a semi-nut, is we chased tornadoes.
Well, we chased thunderheads in a Volkswagen.
Lynn and I did.
We chased one thunderstorm, or actually a series of them, cells, from Amarillo all the way up into Oklahoma.
And how we ever lived through all of that, I will never know.
But I went through a period of time in my life when I lived there when I was fascinated.
You know, as the big thunderheads would build and go up 55,000 feet or so and higher, we'd get in that Volkswagen and we'd load up the cameras and we'd take off after that cell and we'd watch it waiting for tornadoes.
And we found a few.
And it is an incredible force of Mother Nature.
And how I ever lived through all that, I'll never know.
Well, let me tell you, assuming that they get there, because Richard mailed them very, very late, I got a message after, I don't know, 5 o'clock Pacific time.
Emergency, we need Dr. Mitchell's phone number, otherwise they won't deliver this.
The reason that the assault rifle ban came Is that it was going to come up months earlier, but in order to avoid the fight, they put it off, and they had a promise to the NRA that it would be brought up.
So, to keep that promise, whether or not it was voted on positively, they had to bring it up.
And they were simply fulfilling a promise to the NRA.
Everybody knew it wouldn't pass.
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Well, okay, that was just an example.
Maybe it wasn't a very good one or not, but I just kind of tend to think that the people who, you know, the small group of families with the most money are kind of controlling what's going on in that they control the Senate, they control the White House, and who gets in there and so forth.
I'd probably vote Libertarian just to avoid either one of the parties because I feel the Republicans and Democrats, you know, we pretty much get the same thing.
And the American people just sort of seem disenchanted as if, oh, well, what can I do?
unidentified
Yeah, you know, and when Bill Clinton first took office, he was promising to give us a bunch of jobs, you know, sort of like a new New Deal, rebuilding our infrastructure.
And I never heard anything about that after he got elected.
And there were all kinds of promises made during his campaign, you know, and I was kind of excited about that whole thing.
Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Live Talk Radio because this radio station cares enough to have live talk radio on all night long.
Now, as you know, tomorrow night, now I can say, actually, tomorrow morning at 1 o'clock Pacific time, 4 a.m. Eastern, Richard Hoagland and Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the Apollo 14 astronaut, are going to appear on the radio together in something of a debate.
The materials, whether they get to Dr. Mitchell in time is problematic, but we hope so.
They went out by FedEx.
Richard didn't get them off until late in the afternoon, so we hope they make it in time because we want Dr. Mitchell to have the photograph so we can look and everybody can be on the same page.
Steve in Santa Barbara just faxed me.
Dear Art, prediction for tomorrow night.
Hoagland declines interview because Mitchell has not received documents in time.
If he does appear on the show, Mitchell mops the floor with him.
Definitely one for the vault, Steve in Santa Barbara.
Then we talked a bit about politics simply from the point of view that the American people don't seem engaged.
The networks this year are going to give the candidates free time, free time.
So all of you can watch.
The betting is that you will not.
And so we've been talking about why people are so disenchanted generally with politics right now.
Art registered Republican here, but after many years in a business where I was privy to much inside information, you can trust me on this.
You don't want Bob Dole as president any more than you want Clinton.
I know too much inside info on Dole's interests, activities, who he owes, and who owes him.
Well, after this long in politics, I would say that's probably an accurate statement.
Art, the marriage bill.
News reports are saying Clinton will sign the bill.
Now, that would be something.
That really would be something that would be handing Bob Dole a real campaign issue.
There is a bill now called the Defense of Marriage Act, and here's what it would do.
It would define marriage for the first time as a, quote, legal union between one man and one woman.
Do you think that's proper?
Further, it would define spouse as only a person of the opposite sex.
This effectively would put a crunch in the full faith and credit clause of the U.S. Constitution, which is generally there to be sure that what is legal in one state, like Hawaii, would be legal in all states.
So Bill Clinton's going to be in the middle on this one.
Yes, word on the street is he's going to sign the bill.
He's going to say, I am personally opposed to the concept, but he's got a big constituency out there that votes for him because he is thought to be friendly on homosexual rights issues.
Tough choice.
You sign the bill, you hand Bob Dole a big campaign issue.
You veto the bill, and a lot of your constituency probably walks away.
If you'll listen on the air, I'll give you some of the latest.
The elusive predatory creature known as chupacabra is at large in Mexico.
Reports are coming in from the states of Veracruz, Sinaloa, and Willisco.
Do I have that right?
I hope so.
Animal deaths continued to multiply, and now a woman who claims to have been the victim of an attack.
A newscaster in Mexico broadcast today that Theodora Reyes, a resident of a village in Sinaloa, had been attacked by the chupacabra.
The victim presented what appeared to be burn marks on her back where the creature had clawed her.
Art, I don't know if you've heard, but on the 5 p.m. news here in Houston, it was announced there'd been a lamb found dead in South Texas today, cause of death unknown, but authorities said it appeared to be the victim of some sort of, quote, blood-sucking creature, end quote.
And they've got nets and traps down in Sinaloa.
They're trying to trap the creature.
Art, what if deadly viruses such as Ebola are not the only exotic organism that mankind's unprecedented economic activities in the world's rainforests have unleashed?
Perhaps the chupacabra have survived in some previously undisturbed corner of the rainforest for thousands of years, contentedly drinking the blood of other forest inhabitants and only recently being displaced out of the or out into the world at large by chainsaws and bulldozers.
If this is the case, a chupacabra we may be dealing with as more ravenous and bloodthirsty and angry.
We, in fact, may be dealing with an extremely angry, ravenous, bloodthirsty, thirsty monster outraged at humans for dislodging them from their ancient home.
of the latest west of the rockies you're on the air Going once.
Well, what I had always heard was that during the trip, now, this is a great controversy, there would not be, in that period of time, enough absorbed to be harmful.
It would be an issue on a long trip, for example, to Mars.
unidentified
You know, this quickening thing, wouldn't it also follow that there is a quickening of lies from the media?
He said when they did the autopsy in the Tusk to Maryland, and when they opened the casket to do the start of the autopsy, they said that it was apparent he'd had surgery on his head.
When you read the story of the guy in the car that went to the side of the mountain, that sounded like an advertisement for the new Jack Kvorkian Jato Assist Suicide with Internment.
By the way, that story about the Chevy with the JATO attached to it is now up on the internet on my webpage.
And by the way, the report on the materials from Roswell, I intend to replay.
We had it on Dreamland Sunday, and Linda Howe gave us a detailed preliminary report on the materials.
And I'm going to replay that at the top of this next hour.
I've got a second letter from the man who sent the materials.
That letter is also now on my webpage.
So there's a lot of stuff up there on my webpage if you want to go take a look.
It is www.artbell.com.
The cat scream is up there now as a wave file, and so you can do as I do and have that cat scream when you come and go from Windows if you use a computer.
And I'm telling you, drive the cats in your house absolutely crackers.
The system kind of sucks, and we need to create a whole new system.
What do you have in mind?
unidentified
Unfortunately, I don't have the right idea.
I don't have the right ideas to change it, but I think that's a lot of why people are kind of hypothetic and disillusioned by the whole thing is the system just ain't working, and people are starting to feel that a lot right now.
The system is a result of the present constitution we have, and I don't really want to change that because there really isn't anything better around.
It's just that this is not a particularly exciting race, is it?
There's nothing dynamic going on.
Save this business on marriage.
That would be a big issue.
If the president were to sign this bill legalizing same-sex marriages, despite his personally stated feelings, then there would indeed be an issue, at least one good, strong issue.
Otherwise, there's not a lot of difference between the two.
Yeah, but do you mean liberal or do you mean communist?
There is a difference.
unidentified
Well, what I'm saying is that the communists basically use this word in order to try to twist, to try to sanitize their goals.
Actually, if you know, if you look at what the liberals really stand for, today's liberals, they actually stand for the direct opposite of what the word actually means.
You know, you look at people like Charlie Clinton, they actually stand against individual freedom.
Well, he's going to sign it, and he's not going to lose one homosexual vote because the homosexuals understand what the Republicans are up to trying to create a wedge between that constituency, and it's not going to happen because they're certainly not going to vote for Bob Doe.
Because if he vote for Bob Doe, we're going to end up in a hole.
But anyhow, that's another issue.
But as far as you said this election is not going to be exciting, I disagree with you.
It's going to be very exciting because Clinton's going to win.
Yeah, you know, the pessimism about the political process is obviously international, especially here in Canada.
I think it relates to the pressure group warfare we're in the midst of.
We see all these battling pressure groups, and they really fund and push these political campaigns, and we're leaving a choice basically two of the same principle.
And I think the first solution is stop the mandatory funding of we have it here in Canada, two gay rights groups, foreign aid, national endowment for the arts, and all that stuff.
If we can make all that funding voluntary through private contributions, that'll lighten up the scene a bit.
Right now, I guess foreign aid is fairly substantial as an issue, but I think funding of the arts, that sort of thing, very minor, very small money compared to what the issues ought to be.
Well, I'm talking about a friend of mine a few years ago told me about UFOs and all these various groups like the Bilderbergers and the Masonic Watch and all that.
And he said the information is repressed, basically in referring to the three major networks, say CBS, NBC, and whatever, ABC.
Do you think there's a lightning up?
Not necessarily a free flow of info, but is the valve open?
Are the three major networks going to be carrying studies of the Chupa cover and stuff like that?
In other words, if they found one chupacabra, just one chupacabra, you can depend on the fact that whatever it is would be put immediately on the endangered species list, wouldn't it?
I'm sure that would be the case.
I'm sure it would.
But they can't do that until they can identify it as a specific species.
So the minute they get one, oh, yes, you know it's going to be on that list.
I was just wondering if there was anything on there that, you know, like as far as when you're going to have the debate tomorrow night, you know, I was just wondering if do you think that it would be worth, if they have like a thing that you could buy that, do you think it would be worth buying?
Or do you think the information that was on there was pretty accurate in your opinion?
I would suggest that you wouldn't watch it, make sure you watch it at a movie while it's there at a movie house to watch it on a big screen because it's amazing.
I don't know if you'll have time for your listeners to call in tomorrow night.
But when a group of us watched the 1968 the moon thing, and one question that we had, and I never heard it brought up, was the question of the horizon on the Earth, as you know, it's 11 miles.
And the horizon on the moon, notwithstanding that it's smaller than the earth, seemed so close at every point that it was like he could pass a football over it.
And I have no doubt that we went to the moon, but I always thought that what we saw on television was films on a lottery in Area 51, just because of that horizon thing.
Dr. Mitchell's presentation, a little more laid-back than Richard's.
That's true.
So it depends on how it all comes down.
Now, you all know my style, and it is to allow as much as possible a free-flowing debate.
Assuming that it remains civilized, I will allow exactly that.
I really can't stand presidential debates where each party gets exactly one minute or two minutes to say what they want to say, and then the other guy goes.
And they can't turn around and go at each other.
So I'm going to aim for something in between, and I'll control it if it gets out of control, or at least I will try.
But otherwise, I will allow them to have at each other as they would like.
Now, I think it'll remain, hope it will remain civilized, but I make no predictions.
Because on the one hand, you've got a fellow who says there are 20-mile-high glass structures on the moon, and on the other hand, you've got a guy who stood on the moon where they're supposed to be.
I lived in Alaska, and when summer comes, ooh, the mosquitoes up in Alaska are really big.
I mean, they're really big.
Some of them, you wonder how they can even get airborne, the bloated little well, watch my language.
All right, coming up after the top of the hour, this hour, we're going to give you a full, detailed report on the findings with regard to the Roswell material that I have in my possession.
Further, no doubt, complicating my life and leaving lots of open questions, of course, exactly as I anticipated.
But if you want to know what it is, that report comes next.
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The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
More Somewhere in Time coming up.
You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from May 13th, 1996.
Tomorrow night at this time, at this time, if all goes well, Richard Hoagland and Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell will be here in debate.
It is not to be missed.
I make no promises about it.
I have no idea how it's going to turn out.
But following my usual manner of allowing free-form radio, I'm going to allow them to have a discussion with each other as much as possible.
It should be very informative.
Now, in a moment, I'm going to replay Linda Howe's report on the scientist who is testing the materials that I received.
That's coming up here in just a moment.
I want to tell you, I got a call from Keith Rowland who cares for my web page.
He's the master of disaster on the webpage there.
And he tells me that as of this moment, a couple of things are available for you.
One is the photographs that Richard Hoagland sent to Dr. Mitchell are now on Richard Hoagland's webpage.
You get there by going to mine and jumping across to the Hoagland webpage.
Now, there are two photographs, I'm told, that are up there that you have not seen before.
For that matter, I have not seen them because they just got there.
So these are the photographs Richard Hoagland FedExed late today, and I hope he gets them in time, to Dr. Mitchell.
If you would like to see those photographs and get them before the debate tomorrow night, so you too will be on the page thereon.
You can download them now from my website.
There you are.
Actually, from Richard's website, you jump over.
My website is, and there's one other item.
What you're about to hear, in fact, all of Linda's report regarding the chewbacabras, regarding the five-foot egg and the real story there, and the report you're about to hear from Linda Moulton Howe on arts parts, I call them.
All of that is available in real audio form as of tonight on my webpage as well.
So there is a wealth of information up on my webpage.
It is www.artbell, no space in there, A-R-T-B-E-L-L, dot com.
That's www.artbell.com.
All right, folks, here it comes.
Linda Howe, yesterday on Dreamland, with regard to the materials she's acted as an intermediary for that claim or allege to be from the Roswell crash.
You've now had one correspondent that you have put out.
You've gotten another.
I don't know if you've are going to distribute that publicly, but it comes down to the fact that somebody says that they have had pieces of artifacts from a crash, and in the letter it says Roswell.
All right, if I might, let me stop you and tell everybody the second letter, the one Linda is now referring to with regard to the Roswell pieces, is now on the Internet.
It's under anonymous letters that you see first the photographs of the material, then the first letter, and now the second letter has been added to it as of this moment on my webpage.
It is very difficult, Art, because you now are experiencing what for the last 16 years, trying to find anybody with very credible professional credentials who would be willing to look at physical tissue and samples in the unusual animal deaths was difficult.
And now having to deal with artifacts that may have come from a craft from someplace else is also difficult.
And we are still experiencing the same syndrome that these professionals ask for and must remain anonymous in order to protect their positions in their work.
The edges of each one of those little squares, when they looked at, and this comes to your question, he used an scanning electron microscope, which is used with the scanning electron microscope is used with the energy dispersive spectroscopy.
Now, what this all means, these big words, is that they have the ability now with scanning electron microscopes to take something, let's say this is six millimeters wide, which is just a little bit over a quarter of an inch, and they can go down to the surface and they can keep going down and down.
They get down to one to two microns.
And to show you how small that is, if you could take and isolate a single blood cell out of your bloodstream, it would be about seven microns in diameter, a blood cell.
They're going down to one to two microns, which is about a third the side of a blood cell, to take a look at things on these artifacts that you sent.
And when they get to a place that they're interested in or various places, they then can ratchet change into a particular kind of switch, which is the energy dispersive spectroscopy.
And when you find out what you want to measure and you're on a spot, this will determine exactly what elements are there.
Well, when they did this, on the five little squares on the two ellipticals, which also were six millimeters wide.
Lynn, I'm going to ask you to hold on for just a moment to Linda Howe and the continuing report on the Roswell materials that I've had in my possession for some time now.
Linda, are you there?
Yes, I hear you.
All right, so we were on the smaller pieces, and you said they weighed 160 grams each.
And out of the ten pieces that you sent, eight of the ten had a common denominator of each being six millimeters wide.
So there were five that were perfectly square.
There were two elliptical that were six millimeters by eight millimeters, and the circle was six millimeters in diameter.
So six millimeter seemed to be a constant, at least in some of these dimensions.
Now, on the we'll call it the very thin blade, it measured exactly 10 inches by 1.5 inches, which the scientists thought was unusual that anything would end up in even inches, which is a terrestrial measurement.
That could be that it was sawed off from something that's unknown.
He thought that was strange that it should measure so exactly.
And the last piece is the approximately 2 and 3 eighths inches by 1 and 15 16 inches, not square, almost square.
We'll call it the vent.
It is this small, very, very thin object with very thin slits throughout it.
Now, I'm going to have some other detailed remarks to make about the, we'll call it the blade and the vent.
But first, I want to go to a sentence that is from the second communication that you now have out on the computer.
And this is from the source who says, granddad stated their own analysis.
He's talking back in that he came in possession of these in 1974 from his grandfather who got them from the, I guess, the 1947 crash, is what he's alleging.
Granddad stated their own analysis of the samples indicated it as pure extract aluminum as a conductor for the electromagnetic fields created in the propulsion system.
Unquote.
Now we'll stop there for a second.
That sentence certainly seemed to hold up when they took the electron dispersive spectroscopy to every single one of the ten pieces on several parts of them.
Now what they're doing in the EDS, you bombard with electrons and it knocks out electrons, kind of punches out the electrons.
And those electrons have a very characteristic wavelength.
They put out an X-ray when they fly out and that X-ray has a very characteristic wavelength.
And then you can tell exactly what the element is.
Well, over and over and over again in every one of these, it was.
And this is the phrase that is correct to use, greater than 99% aluminum and could not detect any other element because scientists are reluctant to say that anything is 100% anything.
Because even putting your fingerprints or brushing it on soil can add something which might be picked up at one hundredth of a percent, if you understand what I mean.
Usually when we're building with aluminum in something, we are putting and adding manganese or other alloys to strengthen.
And tomorrow or Tuesday, this scientist is going to be meeting with a metallurgical professional to discuss exactly these issues of aluminum alloys and 100% alloy.
And I hope that next Sunday I can have a further update on that.
But I want to say that there's something else interesting that showed up in the scanning electron microscope, which gets into this question of whether or not there's anything that could be structural.
It's certainly not an alloy.
But what they found in one of the five little squares were silicon granules.
They were one to two microns, and they seemed to be embedded in the surface of the aluminum.
And on this square, there were striations across it, as if the little square had itself been either scratched or abraded by something.
And it raised the speculation, which ranges from could these pieces have had impact with something that was sandy or dusty, or is there a processing mechanism in the manufacturing of these little pieces that somehow brought a silicon polishing dust to them?
We're going to learn a little bit more about that from the metallurgist.
And when you come to the, we'll call it the very thin blade.
On that and on what we're calling the little vent were granules that were different.
These turned out to be 10% manganese, 10% iron, and 80% aluminum.
I'm talking now only in little granules that seem to somehow be attached or also embedded.
Now, what they are or what they mean or whether they are something that was picked up over time, the source said that he's had these since 1974 and they were tarnished and they may have been exposed to other things.
That part's hard to know.
Well, a question still hanging is, even if they are all aluminum on the outside, could there be any structural detail on the inside?
Well, tonight, just before we went on the air, the scientist called me.
He was in the lab.
He had, with your permission, Art, he had cut into one of the little five squares that we talked about.
And he said it was pure silver shiny, appeared to have no other structural details.
And at this point, it appears that that at least is just aluminum.
Aluminum, aluminum, aluminum.
And as he said to me, in this universe, where as far as we look, when we look at all of the elements and we look at the stars and the galaxies, we keep seeing the same spectrum of the same elements.
So if it is aluminum and aluminum and aluminum over and over and over again, what we do not know is function.
We know we have aluminum on this planet.
There must be aluminum throughout the universe and other places, but what are the function of these?
And to this date, there is nothing about any of this that to the scientist or even some of the people he has worked with and they have discussed, there is nothing that even indicates any kind of function from these pieces at this point.
And the other question comes back to this source's strange sentence about used as a conductor for the electromagnetic fields created in the propulsion system.
Well, aluminum might conduct some electricity, but what would the relationship be specifically to an electromagnetic field?
We're also going to talk with the metallurgist and some other people about that.
So by next weekend, we may have a little bit more, at least professional information about some of these questions.
But at this point, Art, there is nothing that we can say that would confirm or deny that they are, in fact, extraterrestrial, other dimensional, time travel, or anything.
It's aluminum, aluminum, aluminum in shapes that appear to have definitely been machined.
Could they have been machined on the Earth?
I am assuming definitely in this day and age, they could have been 1947.
Could that be a source?
We do not know, and all we've got to go by at this point are this man's two letters.
Well, it's speculation about the silicon granules in one of the five little squares.
It could also be a manufacturing process.
And these are the kinds of things that are very difficult for us to know beyond the fact that we've got these two letters from this man claiming that these are artifacts from a crash.
Now, I think it's also important to point out that Jesse Marcel Jr., who saw some of this material that his father brought home to the kitchen in 1947, July, described completely different types of material.
And he said, he told me in that interview that he never personally crinkled them up.
His father told him that.
He never did it himself, but he said that he did handle the material.
He saw for himself those fuchsia-colored symbols in these little 3/8 of an inch wide little beams that were so light and have been compared in other research to balsa wood, looking like sort of a silvery, coppery color, but being compared to balsa wood.
Again, all of that is quite different from this aluminum, aluminum, aluminum.
There are not two new photographs on the webpage from Richard Hoagland.
There are five new photographs.
And these are the ones that are going to be spent, or actually have already been sent to Dr. Mitchell as of late today.
We hope they'll make it in time.
So if you would like to see the new Richard Hoagland photographs, you go to my webpage and jump over to his.
Now, my webpage is very, very busy.
It's taking on the order of, I was just told, about 100,000 hits a day.
100,000 hits a day.
And I can almost hear it slowing as we speak.
But I would recommend sometime between now and airtime tomorrow night, you get up there if you're able and download the new photographs.
They are the ones that Richard Hoagland will have, and hopefully Dr. Mitchell will have as well.
So there you are.
There's the report on the materials, preliminary.
And there is the information on the debate for tomorrow night and the new photographs.
Linda's report, the one you just heard, is on my webpage as an audio file, a real audio file, along with the report on the chupacapras.
So if you want to go up to my webpage, it's Art Bell, www.artbell.com.
www.artbell.com.
Otherwise, I am now in the chat room on AOL.
It's the well, I'll tell you how to get there.
There's a new, easier way to get there.
You go on AOL, go to Keyword, and just put in Art Bell.
And it'll take you right over there.
So now I'm a keyword on AOL.
You just go in and check keyword and type in Art Bell without a space, A-R-T-B-E-L-L, and it will take you right into the Periscope room, and you'll see the chat box right there.
I've been listening to your show tonight, and so far it's 2-1 against Richard Hoagland, so I'd sort of like to even up the vote a little bit and make it 2-2.
Now, when people go up on the Internet and they simply download photographs, they don't know what they're seeing, and many times it's pixel-ish, and if there's nobody there to explain, as there was in that presentation, then they go, I don't know what the hell I'm seeing.
And so it is important that you get the explanation that goes with the photographs, which you don't get, but we make them available anyway.
I usually stand back, whether it's Hoagland or whether it's Mitchell, and I let these men say what they want.
Tomorrow night is not going to be an exception.
This is not a presidential debate.
I'm going to let them question each other, and we'll just hope upon hope that it will be reasonable and that I don't have to step in to stop a cat fight.
But I do not expect that.
What I expect is a reasoned, scientific, hopefully discussion of the issues.
And they are, of course, diametrically opposed in what they believe.
I mean, look, you could have a 12-gauge loaded with double ought at your side, and a creature that can go 60, 70 miles an hour would be on you before you could raise it.
unidentified
Do they say it has almost like a reptile look to it?
Okay, uh as far as the UFOs and and uh the Roswell incident and stuff, I've uh I've watched stuff on the radio or on the on the T V and uh and uh I I believe that there are UFOs that that have come to visit us and that uh I I don't want them to land.
Well, I was thinking the reason that the dust didn't fall back into the footprint is because the gravity on the moon, which would cause the dust or the sand on the beach on the earth to fall back in the footprint, isn't strong enough to pull the moon dust back into the footprint.
And given the fact that the granules are round and would tend to fill back up again, even a small amount of gravity sh it seems to me should have done that.
But I'm no expert in the area.
Wildcard line, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
How are you doing, Art?
This is New Orleans.
I'd just like to tell you two things.
One thing, if people want to talk about politics, a good question to ask is ask an American what your vision is of America.
That would be my first point.
And then the second point is, when the astronauts were going around in orbit around the Earth, there were some beautiful, spectacular lightning storms.
Okay, we would assume they were lightning from their point of view.
But if I was an alien and I was cruising around Earth's orbit, I would want to investigate that.
I don't, but I have a sufficient number of reports from literally all over the hemisphere now, and I've seen these animals, and I'm telling you, there is, in fact, something.
Believe what you want to believe.
But I know of no animal that leaves two marks and takes the blood from bodies.
Do you?
Do you?
I think not.
There are bats, but they would never do what this does, and it has been explained that bats actually bite into the neck, and then I know it's gross, but lap up the blood.
I think a more pertinent and more realistic topic would be how the blood is being sucked out of the American Constitution by these socialist one-worlders and gun-grabbers who happen to be in the White House right now.
Bill Clinton thinks it's more important to send American troops to die in Bosnia and Haiti and Somalia than he does to think it is to guard our own borders.
You know, I'd say U.S. out of Haiti, U.S. out of Bosnia, and smash the U.N. Smash it totally and completely.
It has no right to exist.
We have no need of the United Nations.
All it is is a big welfare handout to the mud-hut countries of the world who expect American soldiers to come to their countries in silly little blue helmets to put out their little atrocity wars.
Art, after hearing the replay of Linda's report on the little pieces allegedly from a Roswell crash, an idea of what they might possibly be occurred to me.
In chemistry and chemical engineering, it is often necessary to have supplies of very pure materials in measured quantities.
Perhaps the little pieces were actually manufactured to be a convenient measure of pure aluminum for use in chemical reactions, either as a catalyst or as an actual participant in a chemical reaction.
This would explain why the pieces have such a consistent weight and high degree of purity.
Well, it might explain that, but it would not explain the pieces that I call the louvers, which are obviously manufactured but for a completely not discernible purpose, as you heard.
So it would not explain those, and it would not explain the piece that I have not yet sent in for analysis that seems to have grooves in it.
Pretty thick piece, too.
I was afraid to send that because it is the only one that I have that is like that.
It was one of a kind.
So I don't know.
The whole thing is still up in the air, but I would say the report is certainly interesting.
All right, here are a couple of faxes that bear reading.
Art, over the weekend, I was home in Douglas, Arizona, which is in deep south Arizona, right near the border.
While there, I saw a feature on the Spanish station, Gala Vision, I believe it was, on the Chupacabra.
It showed over 200 animals killed, their blood sucked out.
It even showed a woman who had fought off a chupacabra.
Yes, I've got that news, with scratches on her neck on the right side where it tried to get at her carotid artery.
She said it had fangs, a long tail, was about 30 inches high with wings.
So there you have it.
I, too, saw about a two-hour special, and I'm telling you right now, whatever it is you want to believe this thing is or isn't, it is out there.
Believe me, it's out there.
I've seen the animals.
I've seen the autopsies performed.
And it's showing up all over the place now.
So I don't care what you want to believe about it.
It is not a myth.
Something is really doing this, something awful.
Then this, Art, I spoke to Dr. Mitchell Sunday night on a show that he was being interviewed on.
He'd stated that Saturday night he'd been at a meeting in Florida with Alan Shepard, Buzz Aldrin, and what he said was a group of other guys.
He had denied seeing anything on the moon.
When I asked him directly, however, he said he could only speak for himself.
He told me that on the phone the other day.
Then he ends up by saying, this is Brian in Denver.
Hoagland's work rides on this debate.
Well, I suppose in some ways it may, in the minds of many who will be listening, that may be so.
But Dr. Mitchell said the same thing to me.
He could only speak for himself.
Therefore, the photographs sent to Dr. Mitchell by Hoagland are specifically of the Apollo 14 mission.
And naturally, he cannot speak for the other astronauts.
So the photographs, there are five new ones on the webpage.
You're welcome to go get them, are specifically of Apollo 14.
So that is where the discussion will properly center.
And I opened the door, walked out on the deck, and it was a clear sight.
And it was pure black, a round, black object.
And just before I had left the front room to go outside, it looked like it had tilted a little bit, and I could see it was real shiny on top, silver shiny.
But when I got out there, all I saw was this black, round object.
And it was cumulus clouds overcast a little bit and sunny.
And I turned around to walk towards the edge of the deck to take a different angle, looking up, and it had gone.
Completely disappeared.
And it had gone.
It was going very, very gently through the sky.
Not fast, not real slow, but just meandering, just easy to see.
And so all along the border states, Texas, Arizona, California, I don't know about New Mexico yet, but all the border states so far, with the possible exception of New Mexico, have now had chupacabra problems.
unidentified
Right.
Yeah, I wanted to say one other thing.
I'm a firm believer in the existence of other intelligence in the universe, but I've got a little problem when it comes to people that say they've been abducted multiple times.
Well, they have tried that, and in every instance, thank you, that I've heard of, the person themselves, in their sleep or in a trance, gets up, turns a damn thing off, or it simply doesn't come on that night.
But I understand.
Matter of fact, they've tried video cameras as a prevention for abduction, and generally it does not work.
No, well, I have not heard any reports that have come from another hemisphere, if that's what you're asking.
unidentified
Yeah, I'm thinking that maybe there might be something to the same effect in the Eastern Hemisphere because it reminds me of the Hindu legends of the Rokshasa, which is a demon or devil who occasionally comes to Earth from hell, the nether regions, to see if we are decadent and corrupt enough that the hellish entities can take over.
But with the attention being paid to it right now, I assure you, if there were things going on anywhere in the Far East, we'd be hearing about it.
unidentified
Well, I'm just wondering about that, if you haven't heard about it, because we just haven't looked into it.
But I did want to comment on the fellow, well, a number of fellows who called earlier said they were fed up with government and didn't make any difference.
I think that the reason government has become so unresponsive to the people, and in some cases the candidates seem to be so similar, is because the people have abrogated responsibility to a large extent and their involvement.
And I think that, you know, there's sort of a horse race mentality when it comes to voting.
People want to vote for the candidate they think will win instead of voting for the candidate they want, which is the idea of a republic and a democracy.
And that if you are unhappy with your candidates, then at least go cast a blank ballot.
Let them know that you are out there and that you are unhappy.
Now, that doesn't mean that you got what you wanted.
All right.
This is going to be my political comment for the night.
Bob Dole is not the nominee by accident.
He's the nominee, folks, because he swept the primaries.
The American people rejected extremism in the form of Pat Buchanan.
Whether real or perceived, that's what they rejected.
Now, I know that's not going to go down well with a lot of you, but that's exactly what happened, like it or not.
The American people perceived or thought of Pat Buchanan as extreme.
Even Bill Clinton is having to run to the middle.
He's having to co-opt a lot of rather conservative ideas and ideology in order to try to get elected.
And the perception is that he is doing that.
I'm not saying what a lot of you want to hear.
I'm telling you what I know to be true.
Elections are held in the middle, not at the fringes.
The interest for talk callers and people who are into politics and political junkies, the interest is going to be at the fringes, both on the left and the right.
And so the candidate of the heart is Pat Buchanan on the right.
The candidate of the heart on the left certainly is not Bill Clinton.
If you talk to most liberals, Bill Clinton is wishy-washy.
Bill Clinton is not a real liberal.
Bill Clinton holds his finger up and goes the way the wind is going, and that is Bill Clinton.
Nevertheless, the American people picked Bob Dole.
The American people have picked Bill Clinton.
In all likelihood, Bill Clinton is going to win the election, and he is going to do that by co-opting a lot of the conservative ideology that he knows is what generally is felt in America.
But it's the middle.
It's not the far right.
It's not the far left.
It's the middle.
That's where elections are won or lost.
Actually, won.
So that may not go down or may be hard going down, but it is the truth.
Well, the thing about the contract with America, and I'd kind of like your input on this.
You know, some things I agree with you on, and others, you know, I'm just not quite sure.
But this contract with America, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't it that when the Republicans got voted in in 94, wasn't it with only around 30% of the voters?
And when you make a contract with America, a contract is a two-way thing.
It's not just somebody coming in with an agenda that is produced by a minority or a third of 100%.
If you read the letters, you will see that the person who sent the materials claimed that his grandfather indeed said they would turn out to be tested as pure extract aluminum.
That is exactly the test that came back.
Now, I have no way of knowing.
That doesn't validate these materials as being from anywhere else or anything else.
It doesn't do any of that.
It simply validates what was written in the letters prior to the testing.
It doesn't mean these are extraterrestrial.
It doesn't mean anything at all.
It simply means the man had the correct information in the letter.
But do, by all means, go back now and reread, with the testing in mind, reread the letters that are posted on the Internet that have been there now for some time.
Every time something like that happens, it seems like there's been a book written about it, you know, something of this nature, and it seems like somebody has already stumbled upon it.
Yeah, but the problem is, the thing I have with the problem I have with Republicans in Congress is they want all the compromising from him, and they don't want a budget inch.
And the other day, the next day at work, I worked with a large Latino population at work, and I mentioned if anyone had heard of a thing called a chupacabra.
Well, it was like plugging in a Christmas tree art.
unidentified
I bet.
I got enough information to essentially write a term paper about it.
Well, the interesting thing was I mentioned none of the information given on your show about the two, well, let's call them authorities that were speaking that night.
And the stories and the information I heard paralleled directly all the information that was given on your show.
Well, the reason I ask is that since you are such a well-articulated orator, most people who were bad stutterers from birth or whatnot, I went through nine years of speech therapy myself as a child since I could not put two words together at one point.
But people like James Earl Jones, for instance, is an excellent example.
He was a terrible stutterer as a child and now is one of the best-known voices in entertainment, if you will, today.
unidentified
And I thought that might have been the case for you since you're a well, thank you.
No, I never had that problem, but you are certainly correct about people becoming very articulate.
But what I've heard is that those who have stuttered have to pay constant attention to not stuttering.
They can conquer it totally, but it is always with them in the sense that they have to be very careful or they have to take what they have learned and they can learn not to stutter and concentrate very heavily on it.
So he's absolutely correct.
It is not an ad that is run on the network, but probably one of our affiliates.
I know they've done some wonderful work in that area.
I rather suspect that it is real, the animal is real, that we will get to see it.
And I can only tell you, doubt as you may doubt, that this is really going on, that we're not talking about a couple of isolated incidences.
We're talking about hundreds of animals, and now of recent days, human beings as well, with witnesses having described exactly the same kind of creature.
Now, you take that for what it's worth.
All right, again, I want to remind you, mark this on your calendar.
I make no guarantees about how long it will last, the civility of it.
I'm hoping for the best.
But Richard Hoagland, together tomorrow night at 1 a.m. Pacific Coast time with Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the Apollo 14 astronaut, subject what is or is not on the moon.
This was a story just breaking tonight on the early evening news last night.
unidentified
The other thing is that Mr. Clinton has decided not to sign the bill allowing the marriages for homosexuals because that isn't what he considers family values.