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Dec. 3, 1995 - Art Bell
01:49:34
Dreamland with Art Bell - Linda Moulton Howe - Black Triangles - Prophecies & Future Predictions - Moura Tims
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Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience
not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
And yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
Another Sunday night, Dreamland on the air.
Good evening everybody.
There is breaking news.
There has been a powerful earthquake.
It struck Russia's Kuril Islands north of Japan today.
Japan's Kyoto News Agency quoted Russia's emergency ministry as confirming no casualties or damage.
Officials at our National Earthquake Center say the quake registered 8.0 on the Richter scale, which would make it, quote, a major seismic event, outstripping all but a handful of All of history's most damaging quakes, end quote.
That's from Reuters about one hour ago.
From Mike in Montana, one of many, many faxes of those who have been following quakes.
Mike says, it appears to be real this week.
CNN Headline News just reported an 8.0 quake in the Kuril Islands chain, north of Japan.
He says this could well be the first quake in Gordon Michael Scallion's current window, which began December 1st.
And that is true, I believe, regarding the window.
And it is prophetic, indeed, that we would have that news.
The main guest on Dreamland tonight is going to be Moira Timms.
She's in Eugene, Oregon.
And she's written a book called Beyond Prophecies and Predictions, Everyone's Guide to the Coming Changes.
So, talk about timely.
This is certainly timely.
In a moment, coming up, Linda Howe.
She has several very interesting reports for us.
I've got a very quick note.
We are on the very last hours of my book sale.
And those of you that want an autographed version of my book, The Art of Talk, literally in the last hours, I think it ends, end of show December 4th.
That is tomorrow.
So if you would like an autographed copy, and I want to stress this because we're getting down to the end of it, the book is great whether you have an autographed copy or not.
And you're thinking the best gift you could ever buy anybody who's into talk radio.
It's real talk.
There's no contest.
Now, this is an AM FM radio that has a cassette deck on board.
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1-800-522-8863.
Now to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and our Linda Howe.
And, let's see, I'm always trying to figure out how I should introduce you.
Investigative reporter.
Yes.
You are, right?
Yes.
Television producer.
Television producer.
Emmy award winning at that.
And I would say the nation's... I wonder if I could say the nation's leading investigator into crop circles and animal mutilations.
Well, maybe one of them.
The problem is that these phenomena are so wide-ranging and complex that I don't think any one of us have got a handle on anything. We're all struggling to try
to understand what is happening. So I have colleagues out there that join me in my efforts, but
I certainly would say that the pursuit of truth in this complex field has begun to
dominate my professional life.
That would be a good understatement.
Dominate your professional life, yes.
And certainly, you'd be leading the pack.
I think of you that way, Lindy.
You spend so much time on it.
I know of nobody else that does the kind of work you do.
Obviously, I don't want to leave anybody out.
There are other people doing the work, but it seems to me you're at the head of the pack.
Well thanks, I'm trying and I really feel that Dreamland is an important connection
to the world because hearing from people about their eyewitnesses accounts which we can report
and then encourage other people to report back I think Art is forming a kind of strong
network here and I'm really grateful that I can make these reports each Sunday on Dreamland
and one of the updates that I wanted to bring to our listeners was that last Sunday I interviewed
author Jim Mars about his latest investigations beyond the JFK assassination into remote viewing
research by the United States government. Two days later...
Nightline.
Yes, Nightline, Associated Press, all over the place.
There were stories, and the Associated Press story I thought was especially apropos.
It began, for 20 years the United States has secretly used psychics in attempts to hunt down Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi,
to find plutonium in North Korea, and to help drug enforcement agencies, unquote.
This statement was confirmed by the Central Intelligence Agency, which said the remote viewing research was codenamed
Stargate, which is an interesting codename to begin with.
It sure is.
And that as recently as July 1995, this summer, at least three remote viewers continued to work out of Fort Meade, Maryland, Which is usually associated with the location of the National Security Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency.
According to University Professors Ray Hyman, a psychologist at the University of Oregon, and Jessica Utes, a statistician at the University of California in Davis, the remote viewing study reported mixed success with an accuracy rate of about 15%.
Both researchers agreed that the remote viewers were not reliable enough to be used alone, but might be helpful in combination with other intelligence gathering operations.
Professor Jessica Youth said the statistical results were promising enough that research should continue.
She said, quote, I would like to see funding in the open science world.
I think that we are at the point that something needs to be explained.
And I think this is one of the things we've all been hoping is that the broader general academic world would begin to focus attention on areas that some of us know have some kind of a reality here.
But up until these recent times, the general university population has tended to ignore what we would call some of the more psychic or phenomena of the unseen.
I know.
Do you think it's getting any easier out there?
I'll tell you this, as a talk show host, dealing with this kind of stuff all the time, and I do on this show and my regular show, I take a lot of hits.
There are a lot of...
less than open-minded people out there uh... who like to come after me because i investigate this
sort of thing now uh... obviously when it begins to break into the nightline
uh... when we begin to get uh...
prophecy fulfillment when we begin to get uh... films like the one of the uh...
socorro question mark uh...
dissection that's what i mean has proved to be fast yet and even Time and Newsweek
acknowledge that.
I heard a report from somebody who called up again, taking a shot at me the other night on some of their show, and said, oh, you know, that was what's called a blood knife.
That it was a knife that produces blood, he said, and so Art Bell's full of baloney.
That's not what medical people say, Washington.
I know.
So, you know, all of us who are trying to deal in this, we'll call it the areas that are not accepted in the general social paradigm, we all are like fish swimming upstream to a certain extent.
But consider that around the world, eyewitness reports have been going on for decades, maybe even centuries.
And right now, the very past two weeks, there are more triangles in the skies acting extremely oddly, defying what we would consider to be terrestrial physics.
Peter Davenport at the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, he called me and he told me that since November 17th, he has received several reports from Greensboro, North Carolina, all the way to Allentown, Pennsylvania, about huge, silent, lighted triangles.
One of the eyewitnesses, Kathy Schreck, from Wind Gap, Pennsylvania, about an hour from where I am right now, told me that she pulled her car over to the side of the road around 10.15 p.m.
Friday, November 17th, because she wanted to get a better look at a strange light in the sky that was only about 50 feet above her car.
She could see what looked like solid gray black metal in the shape of a huge triangle hovering completely silently without any motion at all.
She estimated that there were 25 or 30 round white lights, she said, like car headlights on the bottom.
She watched for five to ten minutes, not wanting to take her eyes off the triangle, and then it suddenly took off and became a pinpoint of light in the distance.
She was so unnerved by the experience that she called the local airport and was referred to the Seattle UFO Reporting Center.
Peter Davenport there is trying to gather as many reports as possible, check them with airports and experts, and correlate sighting data.
And for those listening, I'll just give the 24-hour hotline number in Seattle because it is a good place to network in terms of reports for correlation.
And that is area code 206-722-3000.
2067223000. The 24-hour hotline number in Seattle is area code 2067223000. Now, strange
lights have also been reported in Puerto Rico along with a continuing rash of strange animal
deaths that have local authorities now very concerned.
Less than one week ago, on Tuesday, November 28th, a cow was found dying on the farm of a Puerto Rico district senator near Agua Buenos, about 45 minutes southwest of San Juan.
The mayor of Agua Buenos called El Rosario newspaper photographer Eddie Disconde to go and take photographs.
Eddie has been photographing these unusual animal deaths for the past two months throughout the island and he talked to me today about the Agua Buenos and other cases and described the unknown creature called Chupacabra.
where the goat suckers that residents in Puerto Rico have been reporting and even school children have been drawing.
And here is Eddie Dice.
And the mayor called me and says, Eddie, I need to see you because I have a cow that's still
alive and has two holes where this creature has bitten and sucked
out half of the blood of this big lewd cow.
We're talking about a cow that is pregnant.
She had a calf and she was still alive when I got there around 11.30 at midnight, you know.
When I got there, she was still alive and the cow had two holes For at least an inch and an inch and a half, two inches of separation, and they look like they were punched, ice-picked, punched, and it was completely clean.
And this was on the side of the cow's neck?
That is correct.
And any other parts of the tissue, the ears, the eyes, jaw?
There were none attached, no way.
Nothing?
There was no other way.
The other thing that we had on the cow that She was in pain.
She was actually crying out in pain and I opened up her eyes.
Her eyes were completely almost vanished.
They were completely black.
What did the senator who owned this car, what did he say?
He didn't really actually want us to investigate more with details.
But what happened is that the mayor of that town, of Aguas Buenas, he actually wanted to make a big investigation.
He wanted the Senate to start putting pressure that the government should start investigating more details of all these kinds of animals that have been attacked.
If I understand correctly, it has affected cats, goats, sheep, cattle, horses, chickens.
is the mark, these two puncture holes in the side of the neck.
Has that been reported in every case?
Everything that has been reported to the police, it's been exactly the same way.
Everybody's been attacked the same way.
And they've been attacked by sort of an animal that nobody knows.
That's the only thing that we have up to now.
Is that some people are reporting this strange creature with the spines running from the head down the back and with these large red eyes.
Okay.
You know, looking at a bullfrog, the way the back of a bullfrog with the This is the kind of creature we're talking about that people have seen.
They describe this kind of material that this animal is sort of made out of.
Reminds them of a frog.
It could be a giant frog.
A flying giant frog with sort of mixed with maybe Uh, monkey or something.
It's gotta be something that was created.
It could be in a laboratory or something.
It's something that's very strange.
And everybody describes the same kind of lumpy type, big claws, big eyes.
We had, uh, just three weeks ago, two weeks ago, we had a whole hen house that lost 79 chickens.
And one shot deal, one night, they lost the whole 79 chickens.
Did the chickens have the same holes?
Yes, they did have them in between their wings.
They had them in between their wings.
The thing is that we can't understand that it could be, it's very strange that this animal attacks Uh, different kinds of animals, by bunch, by bunch, and just all at one time.
They killed, they, they collapsed 80, or maybe, oh, they collapsed 79, uh, chickens all at one time.
they attacked it, they sucked their blood out and they killed them.
And nobody knows how, you know, because to catch one chicken it's very hard, to kill
one and it's very hard.
You know, to kill five or six at the same time it's very hard.
But you know, 79 chickens at one time, it's very difficult.
And this is why we are still investigating where all these kinds of different people,
different parts of the island are calling us and letting us know that last night they
killed their cow, they killed their horse, they killed the four rabbits the other night,
Last night they had a, out in Carolina, somebody killed two rabbits.
The other night they killed They killed four chickens.
And they all had these puncture holes?
Yes, they did.
And they were all domestic animals.
And they were in their cages.
They were not out in the streets or nothing like that.
Some of them out on the street, but they had, uh, there were cycle fence maybe around it.
It was very strange.
How could somebody just jump over the fence without touching the fence, just jump over,
killed all these animals, and in different part of the island.
And Art Eddie Deese says that the number of animals killed in the last two months is estimated
now to be several hundred.
And it's reminding me and others there in the media world of the famous Vampire of Moca, which terrorized Puerto Rico in the 1970s.
Linda, we are woefully short on time here, but I was going to say the same word, vampire.
Two marks and blood gone sounds vampirish to me.
Well, what's interesting is, just very briefly, these aren't the classic mutilations that I usually would report about, but this is happening in Puerto Rico at the same time that classic animal mutilations are being reported right around us in Southern Oklahoma, Missouri, Southern Colorado, Susanville, California, Northern Ireland, Saskatchewan, Canada.
There seems to be a rash of them right now.
Right.
Alright, we've got to scoot, so give us your info quick.
Okay, thanks.
Um, I would like, uh, to give my fax number is area code 215-491-9842.
My address is Linda Howe at Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
My address is Linda Howe at post office box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, zip code 19006.
And the toll free number for information about my books and documentaries is 800-6-8-8-8.
Linda, I've got a scoot.
Thanks a million.
And thank you, Art.
Take care.
And that's 800-707-9993.
And on that toll-free number, people can leave phone numbers for me to call back also if they do have something
to report.
Linda, I've got a scoot. Thanks a million.
And thank you, Art.
Take care. That, of course, is Linda Howe.
And in a moment, Moira Timms.
Copies of Moira Timms' book.
What does the future hold for us as we approach the new century?
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So, a very important and timely interview coming up.
Moira Timms, M.S., is the author of the best-selling Beyond Prophecies and Predictions, random house book, by the way.
prophecies and predictions, and the six o'clock bus.
Find out about that.
She is a researcher and an archaic futurist, that's interesting, specializing in the beginnings and endings of historical cycles.
Her work blends Egyptian mysteries, prophecy, mythology, and science.
As we approach the turn of the century, Moira's ability to synthesize diverse aspects into the big picture is a gift to empower your highest purpose.
And here from Eugene, Oregon, she is.
Hi, Maura.
Hello, Art.
How are you?
Well, I'm fine.
I was sorry to hear that news about the earthquake.
That's really very startling.
Well, the 8.0 was startling.
If the report of the 8.2 should be true, that's really startling.
What are these events on CNN?
Well, the facts, yes, yes, but to answer your first question, the first event I personally saw on CNN, the 8.0 earthquake, the second facts arrived literally five minutes ago, and I have no way of confirming it.
Yes, because sometimes there's different earthquake centers all over the world that do monitor these things on the Richter scale, and so many times the same event will get reported from various sources, but with a slightly different Richter number.
It is true, and we can hope that might be true in this case, Moira, because what would it generally mean, I know you're not a seismologist, but to have an 8.0 earthquake, which is very unusual to begin with, Followed within hours, literally, by an 8.2.
If that were true, what would that say?
It would say things are getting very intense around the Ring of Fire.
The information that I received from the National Earthquake Information Service in Golden, Colorado is that what is normal in any given year, Art, is that on an average there's one great quake, and that means 8.0 plus, you know?
Right.
There would be 18 major quakes, which would be between 7 and 7.9.
And so you see there's a very fine line between having a bunch of major ones at 7.9 and a great one at 8.
It's only one point difference.
Anyway, You can have 120 strong ones, 6.5 plus, and then about a total on the average of earthquakes altogether.
And so the Ring of Fire is the most seismically active area in the whole world, and certainly around Japan.
When you look at the deep ocean trenches on some of the Navy maps, I'm looking at one right now.
Yes.
You see that there's just a labyrinth underneath the ocean depths of trenches and Course spreading, tectonic plates, ruptures, all this kind of thing.
And it's like a freeway map.
So I'm looking at this particular trench here.
It's the Kuril Trench.
It's a very straight area that goes across the northwest from just above Japan, where Hokkaido is the northern part of the island, to the Kamchatka Peninsula.
And then it goes across to Alaska.
So, this is just slightly northwest of the major area where, as Casey said, would be the most turmoil and to watch that area for changes.
It's all part of the scheme of things and we can't say we're surprised really, although, you know, the idea of loss of life is always upsetting.
Well, it is.
Fortunately, of course, this is an area where there is not a lot of life to begin with.
The problem is that it may be, as one of my faxers suggested at the beginning of Gordon Michael Scallion's predicted four quake scenario in the eight point range.
Now, I understand before the announcement of the quake today and earlier today, you spoke with Gordon Michael Scallion?
I spoke to him two days ago.
Two days ago?
Yes.
He didn't mention anything about earthquakes.
Oh, he did not?
No.
Is there anything he did mention that would be relevant that you'd like to pass along?
Well, I was going to mention it later in the show when it kind of came up organically.
Okay.
Because he's talking about something quite different as far as the major focus for next year, so I'll just leave that for later on.
All right.
It's not quite related to this.
All right.
Anyway, your work has been pretty wide-ranging, hasn't it?
In other words, you looked at almost all prophecy you've been able to look at, and Have you found a commonality between the prophets, between what science you've looked at, the Hopi, the Mayan prophecy, the Babylonian, all of them, is there any commonality?
Oh yes, yes.
Really, the thing that is most amazing, and I guess it's not really news right now, but it was news when it was discovered, was that it didn't matter what prophecy had been issued
when and where and to whom basically the major prophecies were saying the same things
they were just different historical times, different cultural contexts, you know
and so the prophecies that I examined are not necessarily the predictions that
somebody's aunt in Boise, Idaho would make, you know, that kind of thing
Yes.
But more like the authentic, traditional prophecies from important world cultures that have had these, you know, guidelines since the year dot.
And so, when I hear an individual making a prediction, I don't pay as much attention as something that is consistent with what the ancient people said.
So, in talking of the similarities, I think it would be concise to say that all of them said there would come a time and there'd be an event that would kick off a whole prophecy cycle and after that there would be a number of things that would happen the kind of things we're seeing happen in the world right now and then there would be a culmination of this cycle and after that there would be a big event and they didn't spell out exactly what that was but they were
You know, allusions to what it might be in New World Age, the end of the world, you know this kind of thing?
Yes.
So, when you look at the historical record, for instance, I could share with you that the Hopi, they had said there would come a time in the future when a gourd of ashes would be dropped from the sky and it would burn everything and it would kill the fish in the ocean and nothing would live or grow in the area where it fell.
So when they saw the atomic bomb being dropped at the beginning of the end of the war they
thought uh oh and it seemed very significant to them.
Well in the Bible 2000 years ago Jesus was on the Mount of Olives with his disciples
and they were saying gosh you know and he was talking about the things that were to
come because it never sounded like cheerful stuff you see.
So they said well what would be some of the signs of your return and all these things
coming to pass and so what Jesus is recorded saying in the gospels is when the powers of
heaven are shaken etc etc that will be the sign of these things about to occur.
So if you look, I mean, the deeper you can look into these things and examine what seems to be obvious, the deeper you can penetrate the real mystery on it, you know?
So when you look at the translation from the Greek, the powers of Heaven, Heaven is Uranus in Greek.
But that's the same root word as uranium, as Uranus the planet.
You could equally well translate it as when the powers of uranium are shaken.
You see?
Which would point toward some sort of nuclear...
Well that could be the atomic bomb, you know, an old prototype, that kind of thing.
In fact, even when the atomic bomb was dropped...
The code name was Baby Jesus.
Or Little Boy.
There's variations as to what it was actually called.
It was Little Boy and Fat Man.
So anyway, the other thing that I'm thinking of that is similar is in the Great Pyramid.
Now there's a little bit of misunderstanding about the Great Pyramid.
You do not see prophecies inscribed in there, but there's a chronological timeline.
That's been gone over with a fine tooth comb by all kinds of researchers and people, and so it's beyond a doubt that there is this timeline.
And so, when you get up into the uppermost chamber, it's been progressing like a month, an inch for a month, and then it changes at a certain point.
Anyway, the midpoint of the King's Chamber translates out to the date of 1945, when the first atomic testing was done.
And so after that, you know, when you come up against the wall, it's 1953. And
so there is a sense that by 1953 that the planetary karma had been set by that time. A lot
of the Mayan calendric things, like 1983, is a key year in the world. When you say set, do
you mean that whatever, in other words, whatever we're going to go on to, we are
going to go on to?
There is no turning back.
The direction at that point is clear.
Is that what you mean?
The course has been set.
And so, obviously, there is existential value in struggle, as Jean-Paul Sartre said.
You do what you have to do, regardless.
Well, of course, but the back of your book, Maura, seems to suggest that mankind can still avert, with the proper kind of karmic transmission, Uh, what is to come?
And you are now suggesting that may not be the case.
No, I could expand on that a little more.
I would just say that there are certain things that are cyclical and they're in the scheme of things and the intensity really depends on how well we deal with the crisis.
So I think that when I think about 1953 as like a certain karma being set, I think there's no chance to avert the whole thing at that point.
I see.
All right.
Hold on a moment, Moira.
certainly influence the outcome. So anything we do between that, anything we have done
since that point and what we continue to do between now and say the year 2000 or 2012
when this cycle is predicted to end, that will lessen or aggravate the final outcome.
I see. All right. Hold on a moment Moira. We'll be right back to you. I don't know.
To me, the line I've used again and again is mankind's little red light has come on.
The one that says point of no return.
In a moment, more of Moira Timms.
Now back to Moira Timms.
Moira, we have a very bad phone connection for some reason.
Your audio is very muffled and a little difficult to understand.
I don't know why that is.
Oh dear, I'm really talking loud so that I feel like I'm sort of not being Yeah, we'll sort of bear with it for now.
Hopefully it'll be okay.
At any rate, Moira, to continue, I have said this, I've looked at mankind sociologically, because I do the news, you know, I see the news every day, I've got to study the news for what I do.
And I've seen a steady, not just a decline, Moira, but an acceleration of decline in social behavior, In our economic world, in our political world, we're about to send 30-35,000 U.S.
troops over to what I consider to be hell.
As a general observer, I've called it the quickening.
Events appear to be accelerating.
Yes.
Do you agree with that?
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
You know what logic follows emotion and like when you're feeling down or you happen to read the newspaper or the commercial journals there's any amount of evidence why we're all going to hell you see why it's all so terrible and this is true this is real stuff there's no questioning about that on the other hand when you're feeling wonderful and you might not read these sources or you just appreciate the wonderfulness of the day or you
hear other things that are quite uplifting and inspiring on an entirely different
level then you say well there is hope there is light at the end of the tunnel and so what I'm
feeling from all of this is either viewpoint can be justified it is a fact however that
because we rely on the news and the newspapers and commercial print media for our
information that news is by definition negative catastrophic stuff so you're never going to find
how things are improving by reading those sources you will simply reinforce your fears
and your despair.
You don't want to have your head in the ground, but you need to be realistic, so you do have to check and see what's happening in the world.
But I think what I'm suggesting is that really it's wonderful and terrible all at the same time, and a lot of it is where we put our attention.
I mean, here in the United States, everybody has their problems, but We don't have the problems that they have in Bosnia or many other third world countries.
So everything is sort of relative and I think personal action is required so that the good of one becomes the good of all.
Well, personal action on what level?
Excuse me?
Personal action, Moira, on what level?
Well, any level that draws your interest and your passion, I would think.
In the back of my book, for instance, I have a section, I'm calling it the 12 Step Program to Personal and Planetary Health and I'm listing areas where people can plug in and make a difference.
That individuals tend to feel disempowered, you see.
They say, well, what can I do?
I'm just an individual.
That's right.
These three forces are in motion.
The government's, you know, not serving us the way it should.
All of this and all this conspiracy stuff.
All right, Moira.
You feel helpless.
You do.
Moira, Moira, Moira, hold on a moment.
We're at the top of the hour.
Relax.
We'll be back to you, all right?
Moira Timms is my guest from an area near Dreamland.
This is Dreamland.
Welcome to Dreamland.
From the kingdom of Nod, you're hearing Dreamland with Art Bell.
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Good evening, everybody.
I'm Art Bell.
My guest is Moria Tins, and she has written a book called Beyond Prophecies and Predictions, Everyone's Guide to the Coming Changes, and we'll get back to her in just a moment.
Just got off the phone with Golden Colorado, and there is no confirmation of this second quake.
That was faxed to me.
However, the first quake at 8.0 is confirmed by Golden Colorado.
So again, no confirmation of any other quake.
However, I have a sheet here.
Looking back just over the last day or so, two days actually, I can probably read about 10 or 15 quakes The largest of them being 8.0, some of them in the 6 and 5 point range, some that look as though they occurred just prior to the big one, and some of a similar magnitude after the big one.
So the action there was prior to and continues following the big one.
We all know what information is all about.
If you want to be plugged in to the latest on UFOs, All of the phenomena that surrounds them, encounters, sightings, abductions, government cover-up, the whole thing, there is a new publication for you called UFO News World Report.
It is a very concisely written newsletter.
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Back now to Moira Jims.
Moira?
Hello Art.
Hi.
I was just finishing up telling you something about personal action and I just wanted to make the point about that.
Please.
Because 10 years ago there was a study done of school children and many of them felt depressed because they didn't feel that they would really necessarily grow up to I remember when I was young, Moira, I'm 50 now, so I grew up through the Cold War.
I remember when I was young, Moira, I'm 50 now so I grew up through the Cold War.
My little sister used to cry at night.
She was convinced there was going to be a nuclear holocaust and that she would never grow up.
So she was one of them.
Yes, and, um... So I think a lot of children feel that way.
It's a very insecure place and very confusing for children these days.
There's so much stimulation, you see.
So, uh, this is all part of what it is at this time in history.
And so I do think we have to form groups of good, close, loving friends So we have a buffer for when those feelings come up for us because they're a natural part of living but they're just exaggerated right now with the state of the world.
So in my book I do end the whole thing with these 12 steps.
So it's a place for people to start so that they can do what they feel they can and know that it's not going to change the world taking one action or one step.
But when you have everybody thinking that way Then, you know, you create a whole groundswell that does become a very potent force in the world for change and for good and for transformation.
So you get what I'm saying.
I get what you're saying, but your conclusions seem to be contrary to that sort of little bit of light at the end of the tunnel.
In other words, your conclusions, as you've studied the various prophecy, seems to all point in the same direction.
I hate to use the word irreversibly, Well, there is something coming online.
We are moving very fast towards something extraordinary in the historical sense.
I agree.
And all the people who speculate on it kind of get to the point where they can't really verbalize That's right.
And it's not for any one person to say what, because this is a great mystery, you see.
But what I think it has to do with is it's an evolutionary change that we're coming through very rapidly.
It's in the natural scheme of things, whether it's totally negative or just like scary positive.
You know, we don't know how that's going to turn out at this point.
But the way I can hold it in my mind is like you are up above the snow line for instance
and you are coming down with the ice flows at springfall and you have got your little
canoe and the water is moving very fast and if you are not impeccable if you don't just
do it just right you will be capsized you will be crushed by the big ice flows.
So you navigate your way down there as fast as you can but you just keep your mind on
it and you just do it because there is no choice.
You know what I mean?
And it's that kind of a challenge that we're facing.
So it requires a lot of courage.
It requires commitment to the growing sense of what is positive.
And I don't think there's a blueprint out there.
I don't think there's any manual on this stuff.
But I think there's a deep part of us, you know, as individuals and collectively that We go by the feeling of what it is.
I put it a similar way.
I put it this way.
Animals have instincts.
We're animals.
I think we have instincts.
I can feel it.
I can feel something like the other shoe is about to drop.
I've been feeling it for some time now.
So have a lot of other people.
It's just a simple, I believe, instinctual feeling.
That's what you're describing.
Yes.
And that is the garden.
That really is.
One way to kind of make that more coherent, I think, is to look at myth.
We're just getting now that myth is not fable and story and fantasy the way we thought of it, but it's kind of like metaphor.
It's an encodement of ancient wisdom that has come down in story form, but it's true for all people in every culture throughout every age.
And when you strip away all the fancy parts of all of the world and global myths, it gets to be very, very simple.
It really boils down to the fact that there's a beginning of things and an end of things.
It's not a linear movement through time.
It's cyclical.
Patterns of meaning tend to repeat themselves over time.
And so, when we look at that, we can see from the myths that have been left us, Well, Mara, there are people who believe that our planet has been here for billions of years, and there are people who believe that civilizations, mankind himself, has come and gone many times.
Do you believe that?
Of course, yes.
happen again? Well, Mara, there are people who believe that our planet has been here
for billions of years, and there are people who believe that civilizations, mankind himself,
has come and gone many times. Do you believe that? Of course, yes. Of course, yes, you
say. Why do you say that?
What evidence is there to back up the myth that civilizations have come and gone?
Well, are you talking hard evidence or soft evidence?
Well, I'm talking the best you've got.
Well, I'm here to plug my book, but in all fairness, um, for instance, take Graham Hancock.
Fingerprints of the Gods, yes.
He's a prize-winning journalist.
He's written a 600-page book.
He took five years to travel to the sacred sites of the entire world.
He doesn't, you know, wag his finger in your face.
He says, look at this, and look at that, and what do you think?
And he talks about things that are these megalithic monuments, 500-ton blocks that have been transported hundreds of miles by so-called primitive people at the dawn of history with a technology that would be required But we don't even have today.
That's true.
So things like that are very compelling.
And I'll tell you now what Gordon Michael told me.
He said, watch Egypt in 96.
He said, the stuff that will be discovered in 96, I think I'm quoting here, he said, will leave people gasping.
Gossiping?
Gasping.
Gasping.
Oh, gasping!
I'm, I'm, I'm hearing your English accent is to me every now and then.
Gasping.
Gordon Michaels said, the things that will be discovered in Egypt in 1996 will leave people gasping.
Yes.
Well, I know there has been a new chamber, uh, recently confirmed, uh, as discovered.
And, uh, Gordon Michaels indicating there's going to be a lot more in the year to come.
Yes, um, there have been myths that have come down to us through the Greek historians, you know, Herodotus and Edgar Cayce, um, some of the Arabic sources that have been preserved, and they always spoke about a context of tunnels and chambers beneath the Giza plateau, beneath the sphinx and the pyramids, that would be, that are a repository of knowledge from previous civilizations, and we're thinking probably Atlantis, okay?
knowledge of their technology, their art, their science, things like that.
Moira, I wonder if they...
You know, I'm one who believes that this may be discovered also.
And if it were to be discovered, do you think the discovery would be made public?
Well, I can tell you that next March, the Department of Equity are having an unveiling of the two
secret tunnels beneath the sinks that have been discovered.
It's going to be an international media event.
I'm taking groups that will be there in March and our group is one of the few that will be allowed inside the Sphinx enclosure.
So that promises to be very exciting.
There is a sense, I mean nobody has said this I understand, but There's a sense that there's more to this than meets the eye.
That might be the tip of the iceberg or just the end of the tunnel.
The Greek historian, no, the Greek geographer Iamblichus, we have his texts in college and we go by every word he said, you know, but when he said that he was taken by the Egyptian priesthood into a chamber beneath the paws of the Sphinx that came up in the, I was going to say the basement, that came up in the pit of the Great Pyramid, and that he saw certain things inscribed on the walls, Everybody goes, no, and they don't believe it, you see.
So if this is true, we'll find out because I know you had a guest on your show, John Anthony West.
He had some people exploring on the surface and they discovered a film outfounding of a square chamber between the pores.
That's right.
I acknowledge this has not been excavated but it could be part of what Iambricus was
talking about.
So I think if there was an event like Atlantis where there was a universal deluge or at least
an Atlantic or Pacific deluge there would have been an exodus of people, the intelligence
there, the really believing people.
would want to preserve their technology, they'd want to have a record of their civilization
for the entirety...
You're giving me a wonderful answer, but it's not answering my question.
My question is, if it is discovered there have been previous civilizations, not necessarily
one, but many, do you think the information would be made public?
That is my question.
I think it would, but part of the prophecy is that there will be cover-ups.
Something I quote in my book by the Academy of Future Science.
Moira, I think you're wrong.
Why would they, how could they possibly make it public?
Let me say this, let me say this.
The force of history will burst it forth.
Look at the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The people that studied the Dead Sea Scrolls were handpicked by the Office of the Inquisition of the Vatican.
What they found was that the historical record was contrary to many of the fundamental teachings of the Church.
So for 40 years these people sat on the data The world was waiting.
Scholars came and went and were born and died that should have had access to those texts and they never did because they sat on the heretical material.
You're making my point.
You're making my point.
Yes.
So, it was eventually revealed and now the Dead Sea Scrolls are in paperback so that you and I can read them.
Oh, that's true.
But when I said that, I meant in our lifetimes, in our children's lifetimes, Well, if you go by the prophecies, Edgar Cayce said they would be discovered.
Now, it is a fact that people in the Department of Antiquities have been sympathetic to Gordon Michael Scallion's approach to things.
The man who... I have a personal friend who is friends with the director of the Antiquities and although I know there's a lot of professional jealousy that goes on in high circles where this kind of professionalism is involved, they want themselves to be the ones to release this stuff or to be the discoverers.
They don't want lay people with a lot of chutzpah cracking the code for them.
They don't want those people to get the credit for what they later do.
So I think That there's enough people expecting and feeling deeply that there is something there, that it would be very hard at this time, especially given the revelation of these tunnels, to sit on the rest.
All right, Moira.
I think it might be an attempt, but I think it might be, I think it would be unsuccessful ultimately.
All right, Moira, hold on, just some currency is going to change.
Let's preserve the secrets to keep the system going.
Yes, of course.
These new leaps of consciousness that are taking us into I don't know.
out trans-personal realms.
I don't know.
I don't hear you.
We don't have any trouble talking about virtual reality and the global brain being the internet.
We seem to have a little trouble talking about another or a deeper sense of reality or trans-personal
reality and you know personal reality.
Slow down, slow down, slow down Moira.
What does trans-personal reality mean?
Well it just means so real that it seems like fiction.
Truth can be stranger than fiction.
You mean like today's headlines.
No, I mean like the things we're talking about, like the fulfillment of prophecy, like new
inventions, like super intelligence, like suddenly being able to do it right instead
of the way we do things.
It means moving into a level of maybe more of the group sense of things so that we don't just protect our own interests.
We realize that we're all more similar than we are different.
We do things for all of us.
A world that works for everyone, that's what I'm talking about.
Sounds good.
We have that capability, we have the resources, but the way the system is set up does not allow for that right now.
Well, yes, but according to all prophecy, time is short.
So...
I believe the year that most point to is 2012, depending on the calendar.
However, that is true, but we have the force of history behind us in the sense that many, many influences are coming to bear upon the human condition right now.
These are things that we can only really deter our way into.
We look at the prophecies, And we take the experience of some of us.
I mean there's extraordinary things happening on the planet that you report on all the time.
Yes.
So this wasn't so 50 years ago.
So we're getting into some deep water and some interesting domains of consciousness, you know.
So to keep one's center and to keep making sense of it all seems to be one of the major challenges.
And so what I suggest is to have the guideline of the prophetic consensus to look at the
past and see the patterns of meaning that can be and are repeating themselves is to
give us a sense of where we are going.
That way we can sort of navigate with some sense of direction.
And so it's always part of the mythology that the first time is the perfect time, you know
the innocent time.
There was the paradise, right?
The golden age?
The golden age.
Hold it right there, Moira.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
Rest for about four minutes.
We'll come back and get you some phone calls shortly.
If you have a question for Moira Timms, get your phone warmed up.
We're going to the phones here in just a moment.
This is Dreamland.
This is Dreamland.
From the Kingdom of Nye, we continue with your calls on Greenland with Art Bell.
Call Art now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-TALK.
First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
8255 1-800-618-TALK. First time callers area code 702-727-1222, 702-727-1222. Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295,
702-727-1222.
727-1295 in the 702 area code.
Now again, here's Art Benner.
Once again, here I am.
My guest is Moira Timms.
She has written a book called Beyond Prophecies and Predictions.
Everyone's Guide to the Coming Changes, indicating there will be changes.
And I've got some updates for you.
Art, this is from Rick in Reno.
And by the way, everybody, you can stop sending me USGS reports.
I've got about a million of them, confirming there have been, in the last two days, a total of 15 quakes in the Curio Islands.
And that's, I said 15, culminating in an 8.0 earthquake, but with earthquakes in There you have it.
A total of 16 earthquakes.
7.2 would be the largest quake since the 8.0 quake.
Also, I would like to read to you a fax that I got from Stan Dale.
And I know a lot of you follow Stan very closely.
Artichoke.
His little pet name for me.
I am hesitant to announce the following.
I feel I must, though, in the light of the unofficial reports of magnetic field anomalies in California two days ago.
The official report which I sent you says no anomalies occurred, yet I continue to get pilots' reports, etc., saying it did occur.
For four days, I've been watching three tremendous thermal changes grow in size Off the coast of Nicaragua, the Guatemala-Mexican border, and Baja California up to San Francisco.
I have not posted these on my webpage, as I'm not sure yet what to say.
Florida, the Bahamas, Chile, Argentina, North Australia, Southern Coast Australia, Adelaide, North Island New Zealand, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Japan, and Kamchatka Peninsula should all be on alert for action as well.
Still trying to assess the changes here.
Storms may be confusing the mantle's thermal effects along the east coast of the U.S.
So, there you are.
He said, I'm not sure of this call, but I think we've got a problem brewing.
Regards, Stan Dale.
In a moment, back to Maura Timms.
Be back now to Maura Timms.
Are you there?
Yes, Bob.
Good.
Do you feel up to taking some phone calls?
Oh, you bet.
You bet.
I just wanted to say that, uh, why are you making such a big deal out of the earthquakes?
Why are you giving all this minute detail about it?
I mean, what do you want to accomplish with that?
Um, oh, I don't, uh, I'm not in the position of accomplishing anything, um, simply presenting the news.
Well, you see, they're going on all over the place all the time, and if it's not an earthquake, it's something else.
and so this is grist for the mill and if you stop and watch every car that goes by you miss
the big picture you know what I'm saying. You were telling me earlier before the show I think
how many 8.0 earthquakes we have on average per year. That's right. How many is that? Just one
on an average. Just one? Yeah. Okay. However um what I really want to emphasize is you see this
is the state of the news as it has become.
People go, oh wow, when they hear this, it just agitates them, but there's nothing they can do about it.
No, that's true.
In fact, if California, more or less, if California falls in the ocean, there's nothing people can do about it.
Well, you see, the big picture is that that is part of the overall scenario, because what we're coming into with the end of the proxy cycle is like, big time, Earth changes all over the place you see so I do I just
feel it by focusing unduly on every single anomalous thing it just puts people deep into despair you
know so it's not that they wouldn't want to know about it but that is the hard news it gets in
your face and it gets your attention so I'm presenting soft news here which is to say chaos will
increase Disorder and crime in the streets will increase.
It's the nature of the times.
And this is the nature of the challenge.
We're coming down the birth canal, as it were, at the end of this cycle.
At the end of this cycle is always the beginning of another one.
So, it never was comfortable coming down the birth canal.
It was just like total chaos, total fright, but it was the beginning of something wonderful and new and so this is sort of what's going on right now.
So the point I want to make before you open it to call us is that at such a time when intellectual Considerations and technology is not going to help us out of these situations.
What occurs according to people like Carl Jung, the psychologist, or Teilhard de Chardin, the Christian philosopher, something happens to the group mind.
Archetypes of wholeness emerge from the collective unconsciousness and you don't have to understand what they mean or even know one when you see one for it to affect the way you think and feel.
But what these images are that come out of the mind are sort of unconscious.
And primarily I would just point to what happened when we got into space in 1969.
There we were, out there, we were looking back at Mother, the planet Earth, our home, in the middle of space.
And suddenly, you know, you've heard this said before, there were no boundaries, there was no latitude and longitude and geographic boundaries.
It was just our planet where we all live.
And so that sphere is the archetypal symbol of the complete whole self.
That is the symbol of the center.
And the center is the organizing principle, the creative generator of everything that's to do with life and happiness and perfection.
So, when we have such images, and the world tree is another one.
You know, the world tree has its roots in the ground and the branches in the heavens.
It links heaven and earth and what you see with what you don't see.
That kind of thing.
These affect the way we think and we're creeping into people's dreams right now.
They're showing up in art.
There are people all over the planet that are not reported in the news doing ceremony to bring these symbols forth and just exit them into the collective consciousness so they can act as mobilizing forces for the way we think and the way we do things.
So I just wanted to say this is what's happening right now as things get more and more intense and as the quickening gets quicker.
So, there's no place to stand and that's the nature of chaos and people really don't have a sense of where they're going.
You know, you look at all the urban sprawl, you look at the cancer center seller, the cancer cell.
It's all the same thing.
It's growth without restriction.
There's no pattern of meaning.
And so... Moira?
This is our problem, but there's a way through it.
I'm just saying there's a way through.
Alright.
Moira, I think you're selling some people short.
I think you're underestimating Their ability to assimilate information without panicking or quickening the quickening, but simply observing it.
I am able to observe it, for example, without tearing my hair out.
I simply watch the news, whether it's social, economic, political.
I watch all of these arenas every single day.
It's my job.
And I nevertheless manage to stay centered.
Um, so, uh, in a way it kind of sells people short a little bit to suggest because they hear factual news about an eight-point earthquake, they're going to go off the deep end.
I don't think so.
Well, I really am not implying that so much as just saying that this is what takes up space as the news.
The real good news is probably less tangible and so it doesn't get reported.
That's true.
So that's really more my focus.
I see.
Alright.
I didn't mean to smack your fingers.
Oh, you didn't.
No, you didn't.
I simply wanted you to understand that many people out there are able to assimilate this information as it comes in and note what it means without adding to it because of a state of panic.
Do you follow me?
Okay, good.
On the first time caller line, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
Hi.
Hello?
Hello.
Are you there?
Guess not.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
Hi.
Well, what am I doing wrong here?
Is there anybody there?
No, I guess... Moira, I may be doing something wrong here.
Let me try one more here.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
Hello.
Hello, Art.
Oh, good.
I've got it.
Yes, sir.
Greetings from a fellow ham radio operator.
Indeed.
Yes, my comment?
Yes, sir.
No offense to your guests, but I've never heard so much double speak in my whole life.
I'm a Christian and I can tell you that the Bible is true because it's It is a supernatural book to the believer.
Well, I didn't hear her say it wasn't true.
No, but... Hold it a minute.
Hold it a minute.
Take a breath.
What is it specifically that she said that you take issue with?
Well, I think what she's saying is it's a mixture of what Jesus has said in the Bible, in the New Testament, But it's wrapped, you know, it's kind of like the movie said, it's wrapped in an enigma.
I mean, what she's saying is nothing that anyone can get their hands on.
Jesus foretold in the Bible that we would have earthquakes, we would have beginning of birth pangs, but that there would be hope at the end of all that.
I think she said that.
Well, no offense, I didn't pick up on it, and I'm sure she's a wonderful person, I just can't...
You know, to me it's a lot of doublespeak, and as a Christian, I don't really think that's something someone can get a handle on.
You can read what she's talking about in the New Testament.
May I just address the caller?
Yes.
I felt a little bit of pressure because of the commercials, and we've had trouble with my phone, so I'm having to speak extra loud, you know, and sometimes things get Well, do you feel that Jesus was a prophet or was he the son of God incarnate?
to the Bible, I talk about the prophets, I quote the prophets, I quote Jesus and I put
it in a very positive light.
So I think if you would browse through a copy in a bookstore you would see that I do set
the record straight for Jesus, okay?
Well do you feel that Jesus was a prophet or was he the son of God, incarnate?
Fair question.
Definitely the son of God.
No question.
Then if he was the son of God, God is perfect and God cannot be an error.
So therefore, whatever God says is true and perfect.
What did I say it wasn't?
No, but I'm wondering why you're trying to maybe mix it up, you know, it's like a little bit of this and a little bit of that.
Well just because some people want to hear all science, that's what's real to them.
Some people are only Christian and they only want to hear Christian information.
So what I've done is put the whole enchilada together so that we can emphasize our similarities because what is said in the Bible is said by other world traditions and I think Christians would benefit to know that although it isn't There's no difference.
There's no separation.
It's only in the perception.
Now that comment I don't understand.
May I ask a question?
I do not understand what you just said.
My perception is that Christians only want Jesus to say what is so.
If somebody else says the same thing as Jesus, they take argument with it.
And I am saying, there's one truth, and Jesus spoke it, but other people spoke it too, in its essential element.
And so, I don't believe that we have to be exclusive about the truth.
So you're saying that other people can be prophets?
Yes.
Okay, then, would you agree that the test of a true prophet is 100% accuracy?
No.
Then you would contradict what the Bible says.
Because the Jewish nation was instructed to stone to death anyone that made a prophecy that did not come to true.
Well, I take issue with a wrathful God who does some of the things the Bible reports.
And what I'm saying is that... Well, then, to be honest, to be honest, Moira, you then take issue with many Christians, don't you?
I do, yes.
Okay.
Caller?
With Christian interpretation, and we could never stop this conversation.
It would go on forever.
Yes, it would.
That's true.
All right.
Moira and the caller, thank you very much, caller.
Moira, hold on.
We'll be right back to you.
That was clarifying.
If you feel the desire to control your own work hours, your work environment, be your own boss, choose your own work companions, then maybe... Once before the top of the hour to Moira, it seems.
Moira, I think that you and I look at the same things and see them perhaps somewhat differently.
Uh, that's what we've got going on here.
I look at the earthquakes, I look at the news, because I must every single day, and I go by my feelings.
You know, my instinctual, we talked about that a little while ago, almost animal-like feelings.
And I can't even tell you what it is.
I wouldn't even try to put it into words except to say, it's the feeling that something is coming.
I don't overly worry about it, but I feel it, I note it, and that's about as far as I go with it.
I work part time in a metaphysical bookshop, so I do get a lot of frightened people in.
Absolutely.
I see how sometimes a news item can be like a match to paper with certain people and so
I'm really aware of that.
I watch the science too and I try and ground my information.
I just was choosing to speak about the other end of the spectrum right now.
Could I just say something like a PS to what the last caller brought up?
I would like to say that the way I view prophecy is it's a gift.
It's giving us a sneak preview of something that's in the works and so the purpose of
prophecy is to warn us so that if we take notice of it we have free will and we can
take certain constructive action to avert the outcome if it's a negative prophecy.
So in that sense if a negative prophecy is fulfilled you could say that's the one that
failed because we didn't take enough action in the right way to avert whatever the negative
outcome was.
So I feel a lot of that is what we're dealing with here.
It's just we do the best we can given the information that we have from the people in the past who could clearly see the nature of these cycles that repeated.
and we all know because at this point we're feeling it as well something is coming online that's incredibly exciting and challenging it's scary at the same time and so keeping our balance is really what we need to do to see this thing through and that means taking note of the scientific and the facts in the real world the earth changes but also not avoiding spiritual realities or psychological insights that kind of take us into another way of Okay.
Moira, do you remember... I've said this to a lot of my guests lately and really we're so close to the top of the hour that I'll hold it and we'll do it after the top of the hour.
I don't want to get into it because there will not be time for you to respond.
But we'll come back after the top of the hour and we'll explore our differences.
Stay right there.
Moira Timms is my guest.
Her book is Beyond Prophecies and Predictions.
And it explores prophecy, prediction, the Bible, kind of meshes it all together.
And you'll get more of her take on that and a bit of what I've got to say after the news coming up next.
You're listening to the CBC Radio Network from an area near Dreamland in the high desert.
This is Dreamland.
The G. Gordon Liddy Show, only on Talk 102.
The bust is especially embarrassing for Mrs. Gore, a mental health expert who promoted family values, including a crusade to rape obscene rock lyrics, and she's written a book about raising R-rated children in an X-rated society.
Here is the tip-off as to what happened, ladies and gentlemen.
my view now of where this change is headed or what this change is about or where I feel
we are in this change.
I can put it very simply and I can live with it very easily and have for quite some time
now.
There was once a movie, it is my favorite analogy, called The High and Mighty.
It was a good movie.
Moira may be old enough to remember The High and Mighty, I don't know, but it doesn't matter
if it involved a reciprocal engine aircraft, motors not jets, back in the days when we
flew the Pacific Ocean from here to Japan or here to wherever.
Bye.
And about halfway across the Atlantic Ocean, the reciprocal engine aircraft of that day could only carry enough aviation gas, enough gas, so that they could go from point A to point B.
Across the whole Pacific.
Well, somewhere out across the mid-Pacific at some point, about the halfway point, a little red light would come on in the cockpit.
And under it would be a label that says, Point of No Return.
Now, that simply means that you now have only enough gasoline to go on to your destination.
Should anything go wrong, you do not have enough gasoline to turn around and go back to the point you took off from.
Now, that analogy in mind, it is my view, looking at the world, listening to the news, and observing the Earth's changes that continue and quicken, that mankind's little red light came on some time ago.
Now, I can't tell you what's at the destination.
I have no idea where we're going, in other words.
I simply have felt for some time that that little red light has been on.
So we're on the way.
Does that analogy make sense to you, Myra?
Oh, yes, it does.
That's the way I feel, and I think that's a good analogy.
And I'm comfortable with that, centered with that, as you would say.
I've got a fact for you here, and it says simply, if God is so perfect, Then why is his creation so imperfect?
You want to take a shot at that?
Yes, we had a thing called the fall.
And that was where we ate of the tree of knowledge.
And we disqualified ourselves from paradise.
We got thrown out, actually.
We fell out of the tree.
I think we got thrown out.
We got thrown out.
Yes.
Vanished.
What this means is we have free will and the point of the whole exercise is to get back to the place we left and qualify for Godhood.
And so the fact of the world doing the things it does and the people behaving the way they do has absolutely nothing to do with God.
He says if you want to do it this way Do it and learn by your own mistakes.
It's called free will.
Free will.
So we learn.
There's nothing like a bit of suffering to make us modify our behavior.
You see, it's a great learning process.
We can learn through other ways, but you know, the pattern of human nature has been to just wait until, you know, you're up against the wall and then do something.
So it is a place of suffering, the world.
It hasn't been happy and part of what This sorting out period is about, I believe, and, you know, what the prophecies seem to be saying, is that this is a time when, you know, school is over, we're coming to the graduating point.
Some people will graduate and some people won't.
And you look at the native traditions, people who have lived this way for hundreds of years and haven't been civilized in the same way that Western culture has, they have a phenomenon which they call an initiation.
Many of the wise people in native culture who are shamans, people of certain abilities, great healers, great visionaries, they come to qualify for this by tremendous suffering.
And it's like there's always this story that is the same.
It's like a brush with death.
Maybe an after death experience where you actually were dead and returned.
You know, there are these people that have been revived.
Something that is so bad it tears you apart and all the mythology has this model of being
torn apart, falling apart, being dismembered and then something miraculous happens and
all the parts come back together again and reconstellate at a higher level and so at
this higher level you have got an evolutionary anomaly a person who is gifted psychically
is the healer and moves in a way to benefit all of humanity with whom he or she comes
in contact.
So I feel, in a sense, this is what the world is coming to.
I was talking earlier of, you know, the original paradise, that was the perfect time.
And so, in all the mythology and all these stories, we hear about the beginning when it was perfect and the ending when it wasn't.
So as time wears on, things become more and more chaotic.
We get further away from our state of wholeness until we fall apart so badly and the chaos is so distracting to us that the only thing we can do is to wait for some internal process to happen in the deep psyche.
And this is where these archetypes of wholeness begin to emerge.
It's part of an evolutionary process.
So that some people will not make it, some people will.
The good news is that it's the beginning of a new birth.
A new phase of human evolution.
But it isn't arrived at without this sorting out period, without this purification.
And that's the nature of the suffering.
So, in the big plan, God has provided a way for us to get it right, ultimately.
Alright, now let's go back to the phone and see what they say.
Eve for the Rockies, you're on the air with Maura Timms.
Hi.
Hello there.
Now somehow they're not hearing me.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Maura Timms.
Hi.
Hello, Art, and greetings to your guests.
Listen, I'm going to ask you just a generic question.
If you were to be an alien force coming here, would you look at man as a mistake?
I know I've asked it before, but I kind of want you to expound on it with your current guest.
All right, sure.
Good night, Art.
Good night.
You want to answer that, Margaret?
Would I be a grey or would I be one of the others?
I don't care, you can be any colour you want.
I might look at humanity as a parasite.
A parasite?
Yeah, a plague upon the earth.
A plague on the earth?
Or I might see them... I'm just sort of... I would see that we're gearing up for something that is important to us and we're about to have a collective experience that will That will improve our situation.
Gee, you scared me for a moment.
I thought I heard your positive karma slipping.
What did I say?
You said that the gray or the any colored alien might look at us as a plague, I think you said.
Well, I'm not the only one to have said that, because we have, you know, destroyed the biosphere pretty much, you know, and we've depleted the resources, and we kill each other.
You know, there's a better way to do a planet.
You talk of pole reversals.
I'm beginning to feel as though we have roll reversals here.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
Hello.
Yes, I have a comment to make to the gentleman who called in trying to say that all the prophecies that have You know that Jesus talked about, um, that he was saying that, uh, that this woman, what she's saying, it doesn't fit?
Well, um, he was taking the typical Christian view, sir, that there is no prophet walking the earth unless there is a 100% A correct prophet, which of course would have been Jesus, and therefore there can be no prophets on earth now other than false prophets.
Yeah.
Well, I have to differ with him because, first of all, of all the prophecies concerning the end of the world, they pertain to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., thus being fulfilled almost, you know, 2,000 years ago.
I'd have to agree more with your host that we're going into a new time period, or as you would say yourself, into this quickening where we're evolving into a higher being.
But um, not to insult that man, but I just think it'd probably be a little bit better if most fundamental Christians would just do a little more research and studying and they'd probably find some of this stuff to be true.
Okay, thank you very much.
I would just add, it is very clear that what was being prophesied, because they said it would happen within the lifetime of the disciples, was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
But because this is an archetypal prophecy, it is good for all time, for all people, and it repeats itself in different ways.
So it wouldn't invalidate it in any way, the fact that something that was a fulfillment of that prophecy happened in 70 A.D., the same prophecy is still valid now, just on a larger scale, you see?
Okay, Mara, what is your view, your personal take on Gordon Michael Scott?
I think Gordon is extremely sincere.
I believe he really does.
He's very honest about his track record and how he arrived at his vision.
He has batteries of people working for him to ground the information with the scientific record.
You know, like he had a vision about crust slippage somewhere or tectonic upheaval.
What is the geological record saying?
So I feel he's about as responsible as you can get.
As responsible as you can get.
When he says something like, watch Aetna, And watch Vesuvius, and if you see either one of them heating up, that will be the beginning of the severe cycle of the major changes that are coming.
Have you heard him say that?
I haven't heard him say that.
Well, he's said that.
I don't know everything he's said, but I know Edgar Cayce also did say that, and I can tell you what that is based on.
Oh, I know.
I was just wondering if you would ask Gordon Michael, or Edgar Cayce, were he alive, Uh, why they would give out this information?
Well, because the point on the planet that is exactly opposite turns out to be the Fiji Basin in the Southwest Pacific, you see.
Oh yeah, I do.
Remembering from the conversation with Richard Hoagland, he was talking about I mean I'm paraphrasing a layperson's language here.
That's fine.
The way I understood it was like at 19.5 degrees above or below the equator is where interdimensional stuff comes into the system of a revolving sphere or goes up.
So the place that is opposite Etna Being the Fiji Basin is 19.5 degrees.
That is the largest subduction zone in the South Pacific.
One plate folds under another.
So 19.5 above the equator is the Hawaiian Islands where the biggest outpouring of volcanic stuff comes out.
So apparently there are internal dynamics with the rotation of the planet.
So Etna is simply the point opposite.
No, no question about it.
No, my question went more to would you inquire of them why they would dispense this information?
To what end?
Well, that is an echo of what I asked you earlier.
I meant to echo it.
Because out of all the events that are occurring, There are some that are just general and random, but there are some that are pivotal and key.
And so the idea of Aetna and the Cassiopeia and the South Pacific are key events.
And I do have some extra information along those lines.
Just before we went on the air, I was telling you that Jeffrey Goodman had written a book called We Are the Earthquake Generation.
And he had given a sequence of key pivotal events based on a consensus of psychics.
And I found these notes now.
So, he was saying, if there should be, I guess he's talking earthquakes, beginning in India, there would be a sequence that would be key, so that would be something to look out for.
An earthquake beginning in India, going to Japan, I guess next being showing up in Italy, in the Vesuvius area, then Mount Peli, which is near Martinique, And then the West Coast.
Well, I'm sure you're aware of the new activity in all of the areas that we just talked about.
Moira, hold on.
We'll be right back.
All right, we're working very hard on getting Moira Timms back on the line.
Thank you very much, telephone company, for A, the lousy connection, and then B, breaking it when we least expect it.
But that too, I'm centered with and used to.
It happens all the time.
With a little luck, Moira Timms back on Dreamland in just a moment.
Stay right there.
This is Moira Timms, her book, Beyond Prophecies and Predictions, everyone's guide to the
coming changes.
And we've got her back on the line once again.
Moira, are you there?
Yes, I am.
Sorry about that.
Phone company has been very bad lately.
I've got a fax here, Moira.
Art, will you please ask Moira what her take on Hale-Bopp is, its significance and relationship within the prophecy that she has been researching?
Do you know of Hale-Bopp?
I do, yes.
I think it's extremely interesting that it's showing up right now and that there's something about it that we haven't quite got a handle on.
The means of pole shift has never been clearly understood but when we look back at the historical record it does seem
like the major geological changes that came about like the extinction of the dinosaurs and the changes of the
great geological ages like the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary and things like that
were because of comet collisions so many people in looking at the phenomenon of pole shift
have wondered what could be the instrument that would cause it
And cometary bombardment is something that has been common to all planets in the solar system, including ours.
All the votes aren't in yet, as far as what this comet is.
You know, if it's going to come significantly close to the Earth or not.
But it's definitely showing up at a time when we're thinking comet.
1.5 AU, according to the astronomers.
Of course, that's all we know right now.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
Hi.
Hi, I'm really pleased to get through.
Where are you?
I'm in Columbia, Missouri.
My name is Julia.
Hi, Julia.
I'm here to speak to the host of my favorite radio show and the author of my favorite prophecy book.
I really enjoyed this book because it's so coherent.
When I read your book, you really You put things in a really good framework, and I even have some notes from your book here, a timeline that I made, because I've read many prophecy books in the last few years, and you really do go beyond just the sort of hit and miss approach many of them have, and you did make things very coherent, and I appreciate that.
Thank you, Julia.
I appreciate you letting me know.
I had written down for the year 1995, you had written that we are in the beginning of
a six year process transforming our relationship to the sun and magnetism.
I was just curious, you know, I've gotten a lot of calls lately from people about changes
in the magnetic field, the feeling that it has changed.
And I know that in Columbia, Missouri, as silly as it sounds, several people have noticed lately that we're at a different place on the compass than we used to be.
And I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about that, what you meant about transforming our relationship to the sun and the relationship to magnetism, if you could elaborate on that.
Alright, Julia, thank you.
Moira?
Um, I'll try and be succinct, Julia.
Um, it is a fact that, uh, the magnetic fields of the, or the magnetic poles of the Earth have been shifting, uh, incredibly fast since the mid-fifties.
They've been updating the navy isogonic maps every five years.
Magnetic poles used to shift about 2% a year, and since 55, it's been 400% a year.
So they've had a satellite up to look at this to understand the mechanism at work but the magnetic field of the planet is generated by the spin and so as the planet slows down the gravitation seems to weaken also and that diminishes the shielding around the planet so that cosmic energies like the ultraviolets and the holes in the ozone layer are more It's an interesting phenomenon.
It's part of the pole shift cycle, I believe.
Scientists are not clear whether the magnetic poles shift at the same time as the geographic poles.
I think periodically it could be both together.
But the last time, interestingly enough, the last time the magnetic poles shifted was at the time of the flood.
That would have been about 10,400 B.C.
And so the magnetism controls the planetary grid.
I could say something a little bit more about the planetary grid.
Let me ask this, Myra.
Do you believe that the pole change, when it occurs, is a slow, gradual process from a mortal point of view, or is it an instantaneous process?
Well, historically, it's been an instantaneous process.
And so what I'm thinking, and this is pure speculation, of course, If everybody acted appropriately for one day, you know, whatever that means, that would create incredible change on the planet, right?
I believe what we do collectively influences this kind of thing.
I think there's a misunderstood connection between, you know, human consciousness and geophysical realities.
So, I would suggest that if we could all do it right, or improve the way we do things, then it could be a gradual process.
Because it is a process that needs to occur.
to recur periodically on the other hand if we continue to screw up the way we have it could be
entirely catastrophic and so we don't really know but anyway when I was talking about a change in
our relationship to the sun this was related to the fact that the sun spotting cycle has also
been irregular and since I think 75 there have been more sunspots than usual so
these solar storms that periodically recur have been out of phase and more intense
And it's a scientific fact that sunspotting does affect human consciousness in various measurable ways.
So, this all has to do with this evolutionary shift that we're embarked upon.
All right.
We don't have a lot of time, so let's see how many calls we can get in.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Jims.
Hi.
Hi, how you doing?
I wanted to backtrack a little bit, if I may.
You may.
Where are you, sir?
I'm in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
My name's Steven.
All right, Steven.
Back, I believe it was in the last hour, you were talking about the tombs underneath the Sphinx.
Yes.
I've been very interested in that.
There were a couple of things I was wondering and I wanted to touch on.
First of all, I wanted to know if there was any way you could tell me how I could follow that.
Where would I go to get information on that?
The answer is simple.
Listen to my program.
It's all here all the time.
To repeat what Moira said, she talked with Gordon Michael Stallion about two days ago.
Moira, you'd check me if I'm wrong, but he told you.
The message was that what will be revealed in Egypt over the next year will cause people to gasp.
Yes.
I didn't mean to say that there were tombs underneath the Sphinx, but just canals.
But there has been a workman's village excavated in the area where there are tombs.
I am taking a group of people to Egypt in March.
Okay.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
We're going to do some grid engineering.
We're going to reenact an ancient Egyptian ceremony to bring positive energy into the
planet and the grid system at the sacred site.
So this has implications for planetary healing and personal inner work too.
So we'll be exploring some of these sites.
Okay.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
Hi.
Hi.
Yes.
Your guest had mentioned a Graham Hancock's book, Fingerprints of the Gods.
Yes.
And in that he had mentioned, or actually he gave a date, I believe it was 2012.
2012?
Yes.
December, sometime in December.
Well, you had had an interview with Richard Hoagland, and he had said that he had gotten together with Graham Hancock, and come to the conclusion that the date was inaccurate.
By about six years, I think.
Yeah, spring of 97, I believe.
Right.
Which is right around the time when Hale-Bopp is supposed to come around.
Right again, April 1st.
Yeah.
Now, your guest had mentioned Your guest had mentioned that, uh...
Where was I going with this?
I'm sorry.
No, that's all right.
The idea of 2012 was a consistent idea to all the civilizations of the ancient world.
They did not have a Gregorian calendar.
And so Mayan shamans that are very active right now give the year 2012 as the date.
It was a consistent date for many of the ancient cultures.
They all agreed on that.
So I don't think it's for a Western student to invalidate that, you know?
So there's something going on.
It will be a culmination of the whole thing, and the way the prophecy goes is everything will be complete around the year 2000, and the way the Maya tell it is the additional years until 2012.
They call that the peak of time.
It's a sorting out period.
Well, could this comment in fact be the, um, like what the Sumerians had mentioned a long time ago, Nibiru?
Well, I think that if you'll recall, um, we've had a recent guest that have called Uh, called it the Harbinger.
Um, I had Zachariah Sitchin on, and he called it the Harbinger.
Like a precursor?
Yes.
Yes, uh-huh.
You may have missed that show.
Would you care to comment on that, Mara?
I had Zachariah Sitchin on.
Yes, this is possible.
I think the outcome is still uncertain.
There have been a lot of conferences in various parts of the world on cometary collisions.
It's definitely something that people have been giving attention to, and they've even been trying to get a government program together to deflect any vectors that would come too close within the Earth's orbit.
You know, it remains to be seen what the scientists have to tell us about it.
But mythically, it's arriving at the right time to have some impact upon the Earth.
Whether that's psychological or physical, I couldn't say.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
Hi.
Yes, this is Mark from Collinville, Illinois.
All right.
Hello, Art.
Hi.
Noria, earlier you mentioned the shaking of the heavens, and I believe you said that the Greek translation of heaven Was the planet Uranus?
No, I said the word is Uranus.
Uranus.
So that is, you know, the root for words that have to do with that.
That sounds close.
Have you ever considered the Sumerian translation of heaven as being the firmament, the hammer bracelet, or what we call today the asteroid belt, which lies between the orbits of Jupiter and Mars?
Uh, no, I wasn't aware of that.
Uh, you need to read some of Sessions' books.
Some of these?
And with this, uh, Hale-Bopp, it's supposed to be coming between, um, Jupiter and Mars, and so did Nabooru.
Well, it is now presently out beyond the orbit of Jupiter.
Yes, but it's supposed to come between Jupiter and Mars.
Quite correct.
On retrograde.
Yes.
Call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
Good night.
800-618-8255.
Good night. Good night, sir. West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Timps.
Thanks.
Hello there.
Oh no, I've got the wrong line.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Turn your radio off, sir.
Okay.
There you go.
Okay, you're on the air.
Uh, yeah.
I had a question for Mara.
Alright, where are you?
Uh, in Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Okay.
Go ahead and ask.
Yes, I had a question.
I was wondering if she believed in a six day theory concerning a day with a goddess like a thousand years?
If she does, how can she correlate that with humankind continuing to live on and die out?
Do you believe that creation was as is described in the Bible, Moira?
Well, I think it's metaphorical.
I mean, divine and celestial time is different than Gregorian time.
That's all linear, you know, chronology that we have.
I think there were six stages of evolution, you know.
First off, there was energy, then there was gas, right?
And then there was plants and animals and humans.
And I think we're at the point where we're going to progress from Homo sapiens to probably something that would be more like Homo Christos, a blend of human and divine to the human people.
Another jump in evolution.
Yes, definitely a jump in evolution.
All right, hold it right there for a moment.
We'll be right back to you.
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All right, and to remind you to get a copy of this program or any other Dreamland program
or to renew your subscription for our newsletter, which goes up in price December 10th, so it's
It's good that you would do it now before that date comes and it's getting close.
The number is 1-800-917-4278.
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By the way, the January issue of our newsletter is going to be all about, exclusively about,
what I call, the quickening.
That number again is 1-800-917-4278.
Moira Timms back again.
Moira, are you there?
Hello, Art.
Good.
The phone company is nice to us one more time.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Moira.
My question is, first I need to know, you said you believe there's a God or a good force.
Do you also believe there's an evil?
That leads up to my question.
You do?
Yes, the answer is yes.
Okay, then I'm a Christian, so I don't want to... I'm setting you up here.
If there is a good and an evil, and I believe the Bible is true, would not the evil, if I was evil, say, I would set up many, many religions.
I wouldn't have just Satanism.
I would have many religions so close to what the actual truth is, to distract and lead people astray and muddy up the waters,
so to speak.
And I feel that the prophecies in the Bible lead up and tell us about a one-world religion
that we'll all believe the same thing in a higher consciousness.
And I think that the truth is mixed in so much in your message and many other messages
as to distract from the Bible.
All right. Thank you.
My... That's a very interesting point of view.
I guess I would say, why would an all-powerful God allow so many people to go down false, misleading trails?
That's not my kind of God.
Moira?
A wise, loving, omnipotent God, in my view, would create unity within all people.
He would not create division where one small minority would control the truth and when
you understand Jungian psychology there is a way to realize that whatever is the evil
is the shadow part of ourselves.
It is the evil part that we are not willing to acknowledge in ourselves but we project
it out onto other people.
But because we are all more similar than we are different if you will examine your own
shadow and really do your inner work and your own inner spiritual work whether it is aligning
with Jesus or the true religion of your choice then you will realize that only that which
we don't understand is perceived as of the devil and of evil.
So unity is what God wants.
He doesn't want division where there's only the saved and the sinners and the condemned.
And so I feel any religion that promotes separation is not the true religion.
And I feel that certain misguided attitudes are the real devil in the world and the people who think that they are, some of the people who think that they are the only ones, are part of the problem.
I'm sorry to say that, but that's how I feel.
Well, I think there is no single path.
There are many paths, probably headed in both directions.
And a Supreme Court Justice once said of pornography that he could not quite define it, but knew it when he sees it.
And most of us know good and know evil when we see it or feel it or do it or think about it.
Right?
Yes.
So, that would mean there would be many paths.
One more quick question.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
Hello.
Hello, this is Fritz from Phoenix.
Hi, Fritz.
Just a quick comment.
Yes.
Art, as a student of life, and you know I've been calling and listening to this show for years, my opinion that mankind, as we know it, has reached the point of no return in the early 70s.
Now, I've only 50% of all the predictions come true that were given to us by all the prophets the last 500 years.
A human animal, that's what we are, will in the end learn to live together and respect creation and nature.
Alright, thank you.
That's going to have to do it.
Moira, where can people get your book?
Well, they can get it nationwide in all bookstores.
If they're out of it, it can be special ordered.
Or they can call me on my voicemail and I'll be happy to take their name and address.
Okay, what is your number?
Um, I would just like to say if anybody is interested in traveling on a very special historic trip with me as a group to Egypt to do some important and exciting and powerful work at the Equinox, please let me know on the voicemail also and I'll send you details.
Alright, and that number?
It's area code 541 541 343 343 5392 5392, let me give that again.
You tell me if I'm wrong.
343-5392.
Let me give that again. You tell me if I'm wrong. It's area code 541-343-53...
Yes.
Alright, and you're on the way to Egypt and would not mind taking people of a like mind with you?
Kindred spirits, light workers, people who want to do planetary healing and have a wonderful time.
Alright, Moira, thank you for being on the program.
Thank you very much, and blessings on your work and light on your path.
Have a good night, Mara.
And the same to all of you out there.
The hours are closing on the book, the autograph book deal.
It's 1-800-864-7991.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
864-7991 from the high desert. I'm Art Bell. Good night.
This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor
neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not that.
Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
Please join us again next week at this time for Dreamland.
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