Art Bell

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Dec. 3, 1995 - Art Bell

01:49:30

Dreamland with Art Bell - Linda Moulton Howe - Black Triangles - Prophecies & Future Predictions - Moura Tims

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36:15

linda moulton howe

09:25

moura tims

47:12

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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		This is Dreamland.
		Another Sunday night, Dreamland on the air.
		Good evening, everybody.
		There is breaking news.
		There has been a powerful earthquake.
		It struck Russia's Kurio Islands, north of Japan, today.
		Japan's Kyoto News Agency quoted Russia's emergency ministry as confirming no casualties or damage.
		Officials at our National Earthquake Center say the quake registered 8.0 on the Richter scale, which would make it, quote, a major seismic event outstripping all but a handful of all of history's most damaging quakes, end quote.
		That's from Reuters about one hour ago.
		From Mike in Montana, one of many, many facts of those who have been following quakes.
		Mike says it appears to be real this week.
		CNN Headline News just reported an 8.0 quake in the Curio Islands chain north of Japan.
		He says this could well be the first quake in Gordon Michael Scallion's current window, which began December 1st.
		And that is true, I believe, regarding the window.
		And it is prophetic, indeed, that we would have that news.
		The main guest on Dreamland tonight is going to be Moira Tims.
		She's in Eugene, Oregon.
		And she's written a book called Beyond Prophecies and Predictions, Everyone's Guide to the Coming Changes.
		So, talk about timely.
		This is certainly timely.
		In a moment, coming up, Linda Howe.
		She has several very interesting reports for us.
		I've got a very quick note.
		We are on the very last hours of my book sale.
		And those of you that want an autographed version of my book, The Art of Talk, literally in the last hours, I think it ends end of show December 4th.
		That is tomorrow.
		So if you would like an autographed copy, and I want to stress this because we're getting down to the end of it.
		The book is great whether you have an autographed copy or not.
		And you're thinking the best gift you could ever buy anybody who's into talk radio.
		It's real talk.
		There's no contest.
		Now, this is an AM-FM radio that has a cassette deck on board.
		It stands tall.
		It's about 12 inches tall.
		It's got an L C D digital readout.
		It's got a timer.
		It's got a cassette deck that records at one quarter speed.
		Now, what that means is you can take a 90-minute cassette and on just one side of it, you can get three hours.
		Moreover, you can set a timer.
		So obviously it records Dreamland or any other show, and you don't miss it.
		Now, through tomorrow, Bob Crane will throw in a super high-quality 100-minute tape, which means in excess, obviously, of three hours, pre-o-charge.
		So Christmas, Real Talk, Talk Radio, they all go together.
		$139.95 includes getting it right to your door, includes shipping and handling.
		Call Bob Crane in the morning before they're gone at 1-800-522-8863.
		1-800-522-8863.
		Now to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and our Linda Howe.
		And let's see, I'm always trying to figure out how I should introduce you.
		Investigative reporter.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are, right?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Television producer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Television producer, Emmy Award-winning at that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I would say the nation's, I wonder if I could say the nation's leading investigator into crop circles and animal mutilations.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe one of them.
		The problem is that these phenomena are so wide-ranging and complex that I don't think any one of us has got a handle on anything.
		We're all struggling to try to understand what is happening.
		So I have colleagues out there that join me in my efforts.
		But I certainly would say that the pursuit of truth in this complex field has begun to dominate my professional life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be a good understatement.
		Dominate your professional life, yes.
		And certainly you'd be leading the pack.
		I think of you that way, Linda.
		You spend so much time on it.
		I know of nobody else that does the kind of work you do.
		I mean, there are, obviously, I don't want to leave anybody out.
		There are other people doing the work.
		But it seems to me you're at the head of the pack.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, thanks.
		I'm trying, and I really feel that Dreamland is an important connection to the world because hearing from people about their eyewitnesses accounts, which we can report and then encourage other people to report back, I think, are forming a kind of strong network here.
		And I'm really grateful that I can make these reports each Sunday on Dreamland.
		And one of the updates that I wanted to bring to our listeners was that last Sunday I interviewed author Jim Mars about his latest investigations beyond the JFK assassination into remote viewing research by the United States government.
		Two days later...
		Yes, Nightline, Associated Press, all over the place.
		There were stories, and the Associated Press story I thought was especially apropos.
		It began, for 20 years the United States has secretly used psychics in attempts to hunt down Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi to find plutonium in North Korea and to help drug enforcement agencies, unquote.
		This statement was confirmed by the Central Intelligence Agency, which said the remote viewing research was code-named Stargate, which is an interesting codename to begin with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure is.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And that as recently as July 1995, this summer, at least three remote viewers continued to work out of Fort Meade, Maryland, which is usually associated with the location of the National Security Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency.
		According to university professors Ray Hyman, a psychologist at the University of Oregon, and Jessica Utes, a statistician at the University of California in Davis, the remote viewing study reported mixed success with an accuracy rate of about 15%.
		Both researchers agreed that the remote viewers were not reliable enough to be used alone, but might be helpful in combination with other intelligence gathering operations.
		Professor Jessica Youth said the statistical results were promising enough that research should continue.
		She said, quote, I would like to see funding in the open science world.
		I think that we are at the point that something needs to be explained.
		And I think this is one of the things we've all been hoping is that the broader general academic world would begin to focus attention on areas that some of us know have some kind of a reality here.
		But up until these recent times, the general university population has tended to ignore what we would call some of the more psychic or phenomena of the unseen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Linda, do you think it's getting any easier out there?
		I'll tell you this, as a talk show host, dealing with this kind of stuff all the time, and I do on the show and my regular show, I take a lot of hits.
		There are a lot of less than open-minded people out there who like to come after me because I investigate this sort of thing.
		Now, obviously, when it begins to break into the nightline, when we begin to get prophecy fulfillment, when we begin to get films like the one of the Sakuro question mark dissection, that's what I'm saying.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		No one has proved to be false yet, and even Time and Newsweek acknowledge that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I heard a report from somebody who called up again, taking a shot at me the other night on some of their show, and said, oh, you know, that was what's called a blood knife.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was a knife that produces blood, he said, and so Art Bell's full of bologna.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		That's not what medical people say, Washington.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, all of us who are trying to deal in this, we'll call it the areas that are not accepted in the general social paradigm, we all are like fish swimming upstream to a certain extent.
		But consider that around the world, eyewitness reports have been going on for decades, maybe even centuries.
		And right now, the very past two weeks, there are more triangles in the skies acting extremely oddly, defying what we would consider to be terrestrial physics.
		Peter Davenport at the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, he called me and he told me that since November 17th, he has received several reports from Greensboro, North Carolina, all the way to Allentown, Pennsylvania, about huge, silent, lighted triangles.
		One of the eyewitnesses, Kathy Schreck from Windgap, Pennsylvania, about an hour from where I am right now, told me that she pulled her car over to the side of the road around 10.15 p.m.
		Friday, November 17th, because she wanted to get a better look at a strange light in the sky that was only about 50 feet above her car.
		She could see what looked like solid gray-black metal in the shape of a huge triangle hovering completely silently without any motion at all.
		She estimated that there were 25 or 30 round white lights, she said like car headlights on the bottom.
		She watched for five to ten minutes, not wanting to take her eyes off the triangle, and then it suddenly took off and became a pinpoint of light in the distance.
		She was so unnerved by the experience that she called the local airport and was referred to the Seattle UFO Reporting Center.
		Peter Davenport there is trying to gather as many reports as possible, check them with airports and experts, and correlate siting data.
		And for those listening, I'll just give the 24-hour hotline number in Seattle because it is a good place to network in terms of reports for correlation.
		And that is Area Code 206-722-3000.
		The 24-hour hotline number in Seattle is Area Code 206-722-3000.
		Now, strange lights have also been reported in Puerto Rico along with a continuing rash of strange animal deaths that have local authorities now very concerned.
		Less than one week ago on Tuesday, November 28th, a cow was found dying on the farm of a Puerto Rico district senator near Agua Buenos, about 45 minutes southwest of San Juan.
		The mayor of Agua Buenos called El Bucel newspaper photographer Eddie Dees Conde to go and take photographs.
		Eddie has been photographing these unusual animal deaths for the past two months throughout the island, and he talked to me today about the Agua Buenos and other cases and described the unknown creature called Chupacabras, or the goat sucker, that residents In Puerto Rico, have been reporting, and even schoolchildren have been drawing.
		And here is Eddie Beast.
unidentified		And the mayor called me and says, Eddie, I need to see you because I have a cow that's still alive and has two holes where this creature has bitten and sucked out half of the blood of this big lew cow.
		We're talking about a cow that is pregnant.
		She had a calf and it was still alive when I got there around 11.30 at midnight.
		When I got there, she was still alive and the cow had two holes for at least an inch and an inch and a half, two inches of separation, and they looked like they were punch ice pick punch and it was completely clean.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		This was on the side of the cow's neck.
unidentified		That is correct.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Were any other parts of the tissue, the ears, the eyes, jaw, touch?
unidentified		They were not attacked, no way.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Nothing?
unidentified		There was no other way.
		The only thing that we had on the cow that she was in pain, she was actually crying out in pain, and I opened up her eyes.
		Her eyes were completely almost vanished.
		They were completely backed.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		What did the senator who owned this cow, what did he say?
unidentified		He didn't really actually want to us to investigate more with details.
		But what happened is that the mayor of that town of Aguas Buenas, he actually wanted to make a big investigation.
		He wanted the Senate to start putting pressure that the government should start investigating more details of all these kinds of animals that have been attacked.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		If I understand correctly, it affected cats, goats, sheep, cattle, horses, chickens.
		Use the smark, these two puncture holes in the side of the neck.
		Has that been reported in every case?
unidentified		Everything that has been reported to the police has been exactly the same way.
		Everybody's been attacked the same way.
		And they've been attacked by sort of an animal that nobody knows.
		That's the only thing that we have up to now.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Is that some people are reporting this strange creature with the spines running from the head down the back and with these large red eyes and okay?
unidentified		You know, looking at a bullfrog, the way the back of a bullfrog with the stuff like that, this is the kind of creature we're talking about that people have seen.
		They describe this kind of material that this animal is sort of made out of.
		Reminds them of a frog.
		It could be a giant frog.
		And a flying giant frog with sort of mixed with maybe a monkey or something.
		It's got to be something that was created.
		It could be in a laboratory or something.
		It's something that's very strange.
		And everybody describes the same kind of lumpy type, big claws, big eyes.
		We had just three weeks ago, two weeks ago, we had a whole hen house that lost 79 chickens and one shot deal, one knife.
		They lost the whole 79 chickens.
		Did the chickens have the same holes?
		They did have them in between their wings.
		They had them in between their wings.
		The thing is that we can't understand that it could be very strange that this animal attacks different kinds of animals by bunch.
		And it's just all at one time.
		They collapse 80 or maybe they collapse 79 chickens all at one time.
		They attacked it, they sucked their blood out and they killed them.
		And nobody knows how to, you know, because to catch one chicken, it's very hard.
		To kill one, and it's very hard.
		You know, to kill five or six at the same time, it's very hard.
		But, you know, 79 chickens at one time, it's very difficult.
		And this is why we are still investigating where all these kinds of different people, different parts of the island are calling us and letting us know that last night they killed their cow, they killed their horse, they killed four rabbits the other night.
		Last night they had a, out in Carolina, somebody killed two rabbits.
		The other night they killed four chickens.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And they all had these functional homes.
unidentified		Yes, they did.
		And they were all domestic animals and they were in their cages.
		They were not out in the street or nothing like that.
		Some of them out on the street, but they had, there were cycle fenced maybe around it.
		It was very strange.
		How could somebody just jump over the fence without touching the fence, just jump over, killed all these animals, and different part of the item.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And Art Eddie D says that the number of animals killed in the last two months is estimated now to be several hundred.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And it's reminding me and others there in the media world of the famous vampire of Mocha, which terrorized Puerto Rico in the 1970s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, we are woefully short on time here, but I was going to say the same word vampire.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two marks and blood gone sounds vampirish to me.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, what's interesting is just very briefly, these aren't the classic mutilations that I usually would report about, but this is happening in Puerto Rico at the same time that classic animal mutilations are being reported right around us in southern Oklahoma, Missouri, southern Colorado, Susanville, California, northern Ireland, Saskatchewan, Canada.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		There seems to be a rash of them right now.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got a scoot, so give us your info quick.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thanks.
		I would like to give my fax number is area code 215-491-9842.
		My address is Linda Howe at Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, zip code 19006.
		And the toll-free number for information about my books and documentaries is 800-707-9993.
		Again, that's 800-707-9993.
		And on that toll-free number, people can leave phone numbers for me to call back also if they do have something to report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda, I've got a stoop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks a million.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That, of course, is Linda Howe.
		And in a moment, Moyora Tim's.
		Copies of Moira Tim's book.
		What does the future hold for us as we approach the new century?
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		Positive changes in the mass consciousness and constructive actions can modify our planetary karma and avert catastrophe.
		Cooperated throughout scientific seismological and environmental documentation, Beyond Prophecies and Predictions, issues an urgent call to action that we cannot afford to ignore.
		So, a very important and timely interview coming up.
		Moira Tims, M.S. is the author of the best-selling Beyond Prophecies and Predictions, random house book, by the way, Prophecies and Predictions, and The Six O'Clock Bus.
		Find out about that.
		She is a researcher and an archaic futurist.
		That's interesting, specializing in the beginnings and endings of historical cycles.
		Her work blends Egyptian mysteries, prophecy, mythology, and science.
		As we approach the turn of the century, Moira's ability to synthesize diverse aspects into the big picture is a gift to empower your highest purpose.
		And here from Eugene, Oregon, she is, hi, Moira.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm fine.
		I was sorry to hear that news about the earthquake.
		That's really very startling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the 8.0 was startling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If the report of the 8.2 should be true, that's really startling.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Were both of these events on CNN?
unidentified		Well, the facts, yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To answer your first question, the first event I personally saw on CNN, the 8.0 earthquake, the second facts arrived literally five minutes ago, and I have no way of confirming it.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because sometimes there's different earthquake centers all over the world that do monitor these things on the Richter scale, and so many times the same event will get reported from various sources, but with a slightly different Richter number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is true, and we can hope that might be true in this case, Moira.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because what would it generally mean, I know you're not a seismologist, but to have an 8.0 earthquake, which is very unusual to begin with, followed within hours, literally, by an 8.2, if that were true, what would that say?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		It would say things are getting very intense around the Ring of Fire.
		The information that I received from the National Earthquake Information Service in Golden, Colorado is that what is normal in any given year, Art, is that on an average there's one great quake, and that means 8.0 plus, you know?
		There would be 18 major quakes, which would be between 7 and 7.9.
		And so you see there's a very fine line between having a bunch of major ones at 7.9 and a great one at 8.
		It's only one point difference.
		Anyway, you can have 120 strong ones, 6.5 plus, and then about a total on the average of earthquakes altogether.
		And so the Ring of Fire is the most seismically active area in the whole world.
		And certainly around Japan, when you look at the deep ocean trenches on some of the Navy maps, I'm looking at one right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		You see that there's just a labyrinth underneath the ocean depths of trenches and core spreading, tectonic plate ruptures, all this kind of thing.
		And it's like a freeway map.
		So I'm looking at this particular trench here.
		It's the Kuril Trench.
		It's a very straight area that goes across the northwest from just above Japan, where Hokkaido is the northern part of the island to the Kamchatka Peninsula.
		And then it goes across to Alaska.
		So this is just slightly northwest of the major area where Epicase said would be the most turmoil, and you have to watch that area for changes.
		It's all part of the scheme of things, and we can't say we're surprised, really, although, you know, the idea of loss of life is always upsetting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
		Fortunately, of course, this is an area where there is not a lot of life to begin with.
		The problem is that it may be, as one of my facts are suggested, the beginning of Gordon Michael Scallion's predicted four quake scenario in the eight-point range.
		Now, I understand before the announcement of the quake today and earlier today, you spoke with Gordon Michael Scallion?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I spoke to him two days ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Two days ago?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		He didn't mention anything about earthquakes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he did not?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there anything he did mention that would be relevant that you'd like to pass along?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was going to mention it later in the show when it kind of came up organically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Because he's talking about something quite different as far as the major focus for next year.
		So I'll just leave that for later on.
		It's not quite related to this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Anyway, your work has been pretty wide-ranging, hasn't it?
		In other words, you've looked at almost all prophecy you've been able to look at.
		And have you found a commonality between the prophets, between what science you've looked at, the Hopi, the Mayan prophecy, the Babylonian, all of them.
		Is there any commonality?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes.
		Really, the thing that is most amazing, and I guess it's not really news right now, but it was news when it was discovered, was that it didn't matter what prophecy had been issued when and where and to whom.
		Basically, the major prophecies were saying the same things.
		It was just different historical times, different cultural contexts, you know.
		And so the prophecies that I examined are not necessarily the predictions that somebody's aunt in Boise Idaho would make, you know, that kind of thing, but more like the authentic traditional prophecies from important world cultures that have had these, you know, guidelines since the year dot.
		And so when I hear an individual making a prediction, I don't pay as much attention as something that is consistent with what the ancient people said.
		So in talking of the similarities, I think it would be concise to say that all of them said there would come a time and there'd be an event that would kick off a whole prophecy cycle.
		And after that, there would be a number of things that would happen, the kind of things we're seeing happen in the world right now.
		And then there would be a culmination of this cycle, and after that, there would be a big event, and they didn't spell out exactly what that was, but there were, you know, allusions to what it might be, in New World Age, the end of the world, you know, this kind of thing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		So when you look at the historical record, for instance, I could share with you that the Hopey, they had said there would come a time in the future when a gourd of ashes would be dropped from the sky, and it would burn everything, and it would kill the fish in the ocean, and nothing would live or grow in the area where it fell.
		So when they saw the atomic bomb being dropped at the beginning of the end of the war, they thought, uh-oh, and this seemed very significant to them.
		Well, in the Bible, 2,000 years ago, Jesus was on the Mount of Olives with his disciples, and they were saying, gosh, you know, and he was talking about the things that were to come.
		But it never sounded like cheerful stuff, you see.
		So they said, well, what would be some of the signs of your return and all these things coming to pass?
		And so what Jesus is recorded saying in the Gospels is, when the powers of heaven are shaken, etc., etc., that will be the sign of these things about to occur.
		So if you look, I mean, the deeper you can look into these things and examine what seems to be obvious, the deeper you can penetrate the real mystery of it, you know.
		So when you look at the translation from the Greek, the powers of heaven, heaven is Uranus in Greek.
		But that's the same root word as uranium, as Uranus the planet.
		You could equally well translate it as when the powers of uranium are shaken, you see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which would point toward some sort of nuclear.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		So that could be the atomic bomb, you know, an old prototype, you know, that kind of thing.
		And in fact, even when the atomic bomb was dropped, the code name was Baby Jesus or Little Boy.
		There's variations as to what it was actually called.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was Little Boy and Fat Man.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		And so anyway, the other thing that I'm thinking of that is similar is in the Great Pyramid.
		Now, there's a little bit of misunderstanding about the Great Pyramid.
		You do not see prophecies inscribed in there, but there's a chronological timeline that's been gone over with a fine toothcomb by all kinds of researchers and people.
		And so it's beyond a doubt that there is this timeline.
		And so when you get up into the uppermost chamber, it's been progressing like a month, an inch for a month, and then it changes at a certain point.
		Anyway, the midpoint of the king's chamber translates out to the date of 1945 when the first atomic testing was done.
		And so after that, you know, when you come up against the wall, it's 1953.
		so there is a sense that by 1953 the the uh planetary karma had been set by that time a lot of the mayan calendric things like 1983 as a key year in the world when when you There is no turning back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The direction at that point is clear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you mean by that?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		The course has been set.
		And so obviously there is existential value in struggle, as Jean-Paul Sartre said.
		You do what you have to do regardless.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course.
		But the back of your book, Maura, seems to suggest that mankind can still avert with the proper kind of karmic transmission what is to come.
		And you are now suggesting that may not be the case.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		No, I could expound on that a little more.
		I would just say that there are certain things that are cyclical and they're in the scheme of things, and the intensity really depends on how well we deal with the crisis.
		So I think that when I think about 1953 as like a certain karma being set, I think there's no chance to avert the whole thing at that point.
		but actions and expectations certainly influence outcomes.
		So anything we do between that, anything we have done since that point and what we continue to do between now and say the year 2000 or 2012, when this cycle is predicted to end, that will lessen or aggravate the final outcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right.
		Hold on a moment, Moira.
		We'll be right back to you.
		I don't know.
		To me, the line I've used again and again is mankind's little red light has come on, the one that says point of no return.
		In a moment, more of Moira Timms.
		Moira, we have a very bad phone connection for some reason.
		Your audio is very muffled and a little difficult to understand.
		I don't know why that is.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Oh, dear, and I'm really talking loud so that I feel like I'm sort of not being...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hopefully it'll be okay.
		At any rate, Maura, to continue, I have said this.
		I've looked at mankind sociologically because I do the news.
		You know, I see the news every day.
		I've got to study the news for what I do.
		And I have seen a steady, not just a decline, Maura, but an acceleration of decline in social behavior in our economic world, in our political world.
		We're about to send 30,000, 35,000 U.S. troops over to what I consider to be hell.
		And it's just, it's what I, I have to, as a general observer, I've called it the quickening.
		Events appear to be accelerating.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you agree with that?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely, Art.
		Absolutely.
		You know, logic follows emotion, and like, when you're feeling down, or you happen to read the newspaper or the commercial channels, there's any amount of evidence why we're all going to hell, you see, why it's all so terrible.
		And this is true.
		This is real stuff.
		There's no questioning about that.
		On the other hand, when you're feeling wonderful and you might not read these sources, or you just appreciate the wonderfulness of the day, or you hear other things that are quite uplifting and inspiring on an entirely different level, then you say, well, there is hope, there is light at the end of the tunnel.
		And so what I'm feeling from all of this is either viewpoint can be justified.
		It is a fact, however, that because we rely on the news and the newspapers and commercial print media for our information, that news is by definition negative, catastrophic stuff.
		So you're never going to find how things are improving by reading those sources.
		You will simply reinforce your fears and your despair.
		And you don't want to have your head in the ground, but you need to be realistic.
		So you do have to check and see what's happening in the world.
		But I think what I'm suggesting is that really it's wonderful and terrible all at the same time.
		And a lot of it is where we put our attention.
		I mean, here in the United States, everybody has their problems, but we don't have the problems that they have in Bosnia or many other parts of the other third world countries.
		So everything is sort of relative.
		And I think personal action is required so that the good of one becomes good of all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, personal action on what level?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Personal action, Maura, on what level?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, what?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Every level that draws your interest and your passion, I would think.
		In the back of my book, for instance, I have a section, I mean, I'm calling it the 12-step program to personal and planetary health.
		And I'm listing areas where people can plug in and make a difference.
		I think that individuals tend to feel disempowered, you see.
		They say, well, what can I do?
		I'm just an individual.
		These forces are in motion.
		The government's, you know, not serving us the way it should.
		All of this and all this conspiracy stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Maura.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		You feel hopeless.
unidentified		You do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Moira, Moira, Moira, hold on a moment.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		Relax.
		We'll get back to you.
		All right.
		Maurit Sims is my guest from an area near Dreamland.
		This is Dreamland.
unidentified		This is Dreamland.
		From the Kingdom of High, you're here in Greenland with Art Bell.
		To participate in the program, call toll-free, 1-800-618-8255.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1-800-618-8255.
unidentified		First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
unidentified		Or the Wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is the CBC Radio Network.
		It is indeed.
		Good evening, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Maurya Chins, and she has written a book called Beyond Prophecies and Predictions, Everyone's Guide to the Coming Changes.
		And we'll get back to her in just a moment.
		Just got off the phone with Golden Colorado, and there is no confirmation of this second quake that was faxed to me.
		However, the first quake at 8.0 is confirmed by Golden Colorado.
		So again, no confirmation of any other quake.
		However, I have a seed here.
		Looking back just over the last day or so, two days actually, I can probably read about 10 or 15 quakes, the largest of them being 8.0, some of them in the 6 and 5 point range, some that look as though they occurred just prior to the big one, and some of a similar magnitude after the big one.
		So the action there was prior to and continues following the big one.
		We all know what information is all about.
		If you want to be plugged in to the latest on UFOs, all of the phenomena that surrounds them, encounters, sightings, abductions, government cover-up, the whole thing, there is a new publication for you called UFO News World Report.
		It is a very concisely written newsletter.
		And as a special holiday offer, you can get it for $19.95 a year.
		It covers the world for you, formatted and written by seasoned journalists.
		Find out what's happening.
		Call 1-800-830-9830.
		That's 1-800-830-9830.
		24 hours a day.
		Or send a check for $19.95 to box 2757 Anaheim, California.
		zip code 92814.
		It's guaranteed you're going to love this or your money back.
		Call 1-800-830-9830.
		Back now to Moira Jims.
		Moira?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I was just finishing up telling you something about personal action, and I just wanted to make the point about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Because some years ago, there was a study done of schoolchildren, and many of them felt depressed because they didn't feel that they would really necessarily go up to be adults or see much adulthood.
		And this was because of the nuclear shadow.
		And so much of the success of piecework that has been done that reduces people's fear levels is to get them involved in participating in the solution.
		When you are active for something that's part of problem solving, then that takes the edge off the fear and off the sense of being a sitting duck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember when I was young, Moira, I'm 50 now, so I grew up through the Cold War.
		My little sister used to cry at night.
		She was convinced there was going to be a nuclear holocaust and that she would never grow up.
		So she was one of them.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and so I think a lot of children feel that way.
		It's a very insecure place and very confusing for children these days.
		There's so much stimulation, you see.
		So this is all part of what it is at this time in history.
		And so I do think we have to form groups of good, close, loving friends so that we have a buffer for when those feelings come up for us because they're a natural part of living, but they're just exaggerated right now with the state of the world.
		So in my book, I do end the whole thing with these 12 steps.
		So it's a place for people to start so that they can do what they feel they can and know that it's not going to change the world taking one action or one set.
		But when you have everybody thinking that way, then you create the whole ground spell that does become a very potent force in the world for change and for good and for transformation.
		So you get what I'm saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get what you're saying.
		But your conclusions seem to be contrary to that sort of little bit of light at the end of the tunnel.
		In other words, your conclusions, as you've studied the various prophecy, seems to all point in the same direction.
		I hate to use the word irreversibly, but irreversibly.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is something coming online.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		We are moving very fast towards something extraordinary in the historical sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		And all the people who speculate on it kind of get to the point where they can't really verbalize what it is, but you get the sense of the excitement.
		And just to kind of, and it's not for any one person to say what, because this is the great mystery, you see.
		But what I think it has to do with is it's an evolutionary change that we're coming to very rapidly.
		It's in the natural scheme of things, whether it's totally negative or just like scary positive.
		We don't know how that's going to turn out at this point.
		But the way I kind of hold it in my mind, it's like, you know, you're up above the snow line, for instance, and you're coming down with the ice flows at spring fall.
		And you've got your little canoe, and the water is moving very fast.
		And if you are not impeccable, if you don't just do it dressed right, you will be capsized, you will be crushed by the big ice flows.
		So you navigate your way down there as fast as you can, but you just get your mind on it, and you just do it because there is no choice.
		You know what I mean?
		And it's that kind of a challenge that we're facing.
		So it requires a lot of courage.
		It requires commitment to the growing sense of what is positive.
		And I don't think there's a blueprint out there.
		I don't think there's any manual on this stuff.
		But I think there's a deep part of us, you know, as individuals and collectively, that we go by the feeling of what it is.
unidentified		Yeah, I just put it in the point where I put it a simpler way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I put it this way.
		Animals have instincts.
		We're animals.
		I think we have instincts.
		I can feel it.
		I can feel something like the other shoe is about to drop.
		And I've been feeling it for some time now, so have a lot of other people.
		It's just a simple, I believe, instinctual feeling.
		That's what you're describing.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And that is the guidance.
		That really is.
		And so one way to kind of make that more coherent, I think, is to look at myth.
		We're just getting now that myth is not fable and story and fantasy the way we thought of it, but it's kind of like metaphor.
		It's an encodement of ancient wisdom that has come down in story form.
		But it's true for all people in every culture throughout every age.
		And when you strip away all the fancy parts of all of the world and global myths, it gets to be very, very simple.
		It really boils down to the fact that there's a beginning of things and an end of things.
		It's not a linear movement through time.
		It's cyclical.
		Patterns of meaning tend to repeat themselves over time.
		And so when we look at that, we can see from the myths that have been left us clues that could form a blueprint so that we can navigate the future because MIT is predicated on the fact that what has happened in the past in a slightly different way will happen again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Maura, there are people who believe that our planet has been here for billions of years, and there are people who believe that civilizations, mankind himself, has come and gone many times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Of course, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, yes, you say.
		Why do you say that?
		What evidence is there to back up the myth that civilizations have come and gone?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, are you talking hard evidence or soft evidence?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm talking the best you've got.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm here to point my book.
		But, in all fairness, for instance, take Graham Hancock's book, Fingerprints of the Gods.
		He's a prize-winning journalist.
		He's written a 600-page book.
		He took five years to travel to the sacred sites of the entire world.
		He doesn't, you know, wag his finger in your face.
		He says, look at this, and look at that.
		What do you think?
		And he talks about things that are these megalithic monuments, 500-ton blocks that have been transported hundreds of miles by so-called primitive people at the dawn of history with a technology that would be required that we don't even have today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		So things like that are very compelling.
		And I'll tell you now what Gordon Michael told me.
		He said, watch Egypt in 96.
		He said, the stuff that will be discovered in 1996, I think I'm quoting here, he said, it will leave people gasping.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gossiping?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Gasping.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Gasping.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, gasping.
		I'm gulp.
		Your English accent is to me every now and then.
		Gasping.
		Gordon Michael skidded said the things that will be discovered in Egypt in 1996 will leave people gasping.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know there has been a new chamber recently confirmed as discovered, and Gordon Michaels indicating there's going to be a lot more in the year to come.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		There have been myths that have come down to us through the Greek historians, you know, Herodotus and Egyptes, some of the Arabic sources that have been preserved, and they always spoke about a complex of tunnels and chambers beneath the Giza Plateau, beneath the Sphinx and the pyramids, that would be, or that are a repository of knowledge from previous civilizations, and we're thinking probably Atlantis, okay?
		Knowledge of their technology, their arts, their sciences, things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Moira, I wonder if they, you know, I'm one who believes that this may be discovered also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if it were to be discovered, do you think the discovery would be made public?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can tell you that next March, the Department of Equities are having an unveiling of the two secret tunnels beneath the Sphinx that have been discovered.
		It's going to be an international media event.
		I'm taking groups that will be there in March, and our group is one of the few that will be allowed inside the Sphinx enclosure.
		So that promises to be very exciting.
		There is a sense, I mean, nobody has said this, I understand, but there's a sense that there's more to this than meets the eye that might be the tip of the iceberg or just the end of the tunnel.
		The Greek geographer, Iamblichus, we had his text in college and we go by every word he said, you know, but when he said that he was taken by the Egyptian priesthood into a chamber beneath the paws of the Sphinx that came up in the, I was going to say the basement, came up in the pyramid of the Great Pyramid, and that he saw certain things inscribed on the walls, everybody goes, no, and they don't believe it, you see.
		So if this is true, we'll find out, because I know you had a guest on your show, John Anthony West.
		He had some people exploring on the surface there on the surface, and they discovered a fawn house founding of a square chamber between the pores.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		To my knowledge, this has not been excavated, but it could be part of what Diamplicus at least was talking about.
		So I think if there was an event like Atlantis where there was a universal deluge, or at least an Atlantic or Pacific deluge, there would have been an exodus of people, you know, the intelligentsia, the, you know, the really the leading people who would want to preserve their technology.
		They'd want to have a record of their civilization for prosperity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're giving me a wonderful answer, but it's not answering my question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My question is, if it is discovered there have been previous civilizations, not necessarily one, but many, do you think the information would be made public?
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is my question.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I think it would, but part of the prophecy is that there will be cover-ups.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Something I quote in my book by the Academy of Future Science.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Moira, I think you're wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would they, how could they possibly make it public?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Let me say this.
		The false of history will burst it forth.
		Look at the Dead Sea Scrolls.
		The people that studied the Dead Sea Scrolls were handpicked by the Office of the Inquisition of the Vatican.
		What they found was heresy.
		The historical record was contrary to many of the fundamental teachings of the Church.
		So for 40 years these people sat on the data, the world was waiting.
		Scholars came and went and were born and died that should have had access to those texts, and they never did because they sat on the heretical material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're making my point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're making my point.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		So it was eventually revealed, and now the Dead Sea Scrolls are in paperback so that you and I can read them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But when I said that, I meant in our lifetimes, in our children's lifetimes, in other words.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you go by the properties art, Edgar Casey said they would be discovered.
		Now, it is a fact that people in the Department of Antiquities have been sympathetic to Gordon Michael Scallion's approach to things.
		And the man who, I have a personal friend who is friends with the director of the Antiquities.
		And although I know there's a lot of professional jealousy that goes on in high circles where this kind of professionalism is involved, they want themselves to be the ones to release this stuff or to be the discoverers.
		They don't want lay people...
		a lot of chutzpah cracking the code for them.
		They don't want those people to get the credit for what they later do.
		So I think that there's enough people expecting and feeling deeply that there is something there that it would be very hard at this time, especially given the revelation of these tunnels, to sit on the rest.
		It might be an attempt, but I think it would be unsuccessful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Moira, hold on.
		Just a moment.
		Currency is going to change.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Let's preserve the secrets to keep the system going.
unidentified		Yes, of course.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		These new leaps of consciousness that are taking us into fear me clearly now, you know, trans-personal realms.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		We don't have any trouble talking about virtual reality and the global brain being the internet.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		We seem to have a little trouble talking about another or a deeper sense of reality or transpersonal reality and, you know, personal reality.
unidentified		Slow down, slow down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Slow down, Moira.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does trans-personal reality mean?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, it just means so real that it seems like fiction.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		You know, truth can be stranger than fiction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like today's headlines?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		No, I mean like the things we're talking about, like the fulfillment of prophecy, like new inventions, like super intelligence, like suddenly being able to do it right instead of the way we do things.
		It means moving into a level of maybe more of the group sense of things so that we don't just protect our own interests, we realize that we're all more similar than we are different, and we do things for all others.
		A world that works for everyone, that's what I'm talking about.
		We have that capability, we have the resources, but the way the system is set up does not allow for that right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but according to all prophecy, time is short.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I believe the year that most point to is 2012, depending on the calendar you use.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		However, that is true, but we have the force of history behind us in the sense that many, many influences are coming to bear upon the human condition right now.
		These are things that we can only really curt our way into.
		We look at the processes and we take the experience of some of us.
		I mean, there's extraordinary things happening on the planet that you report on all the time.
		So this wasn't so 50 years ago.
		So we're getting into some deep water and some interesting domains of consciousness, you know.
		So to keep one's center and to keep making sense of it all seems to be one of the major challenges.
		And so what I suggest is to have the guideline of, you know, the prophetic consensus to look at the past and see the patterns of meaning that can be and are repeating themselves is to give us a sense of where we're going.
		That way we can sort of navigate with some sense of direction.
		And so it's always part of the mythology that the first time is the perfect time, you know, the innocent time.
		There was the paradise, right?
		The golden age?
unidentified		The golden age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there, Moira.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		Rest for about four minutes.
		We'll come back and get you some phone calls shortly.
		If you have a question for Moira Tims, get your phone warmed up.
		We're going to the phones here in just a moment.
		This is Dreamland.
unidentified		This is Dreamland.
		From the Kingdom of Naive, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
		Call Art now, Toll Free, at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		702-727-1222.
unidentified		Or the Wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		727-1295.
		In the 702 area code.
		Now again, here's Art Bell.
		Once again, here I am.
		My guest is Moira Tims.
		She has written a book called Beyond Prophecies and Predictions, Everyone's Guide to the Coming Changes, indicating there will be changes.
		And I've got some updates for you.
		Art, this is from Rick in Reno.
		And by the way, everybody, you can stop sending me USGS reports.
		I've got about a million of them confirming there have been in the last two days a total of 15 quakes in the Curio Islands.
		And that's, I said 15, culminating in an 8.0 earthquake, but with earthquake in the chain.
		But it is a 7.2, not 8.2.
		So there you have it.
		A total of 16 earthquakes.
		7.2 would be the largest quake since the 8.0 quake.
		Also, I would like to read to you a fact that I got from Stan Dale, and I know a lot of you follow Stan very closely.
		Artichoke, his little pet name for me.
		I am hesitant to announce the following.
		I feel I must, though, in the light of the unofficial reports of magnetic field anomalies in California two days ago.
		The official report which I sent you says no anomalies occurred yet.
		I continue to get pilots' reports, etc., saying it did occur.
		For four days, I've been watching three tremendous thermal changes grow in size off the coasts of Nicaragua, the Guatemala-Mexican border, and Baja, California, up to San Francisco.
		I have not posted these on my webpage as I'm not sure yet what to say.
		Florida, the Bahamas, Chile, Argentina, North Australia, Southern Coast Australia, Adelaide, North Island New Zealand, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Japan, and Kemchatka Peninsula should all be on alert for action as well.
		Still trying to assess the changes here, storms may be confusing the mantle's thermal effects along the east coast of the U.S. So, there you are.
		He said, I'm not sure of this call, but I think we've got a problem brewing.
		Regards Standale.
		In a moment, back to Mara Timms.
		Be back now to Mara Tims.
		Are you there?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you feel up to taking some phone calls?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you bet.
		You bet.
		I just wanted to say that why are you making such a big deal out of the earthquakes?
		Why are you giving all this minute detail about it?
		I mean, what do you want to accomplish with that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not in the position of accomplishing anything, simply presenting the news.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, you see, they're going all over the place all the time, and if it's not an earthquake, it's something else.
		And so this is Grift for the Mill, and if you don't watch every car that goes by, you miss the big picture.
		You know what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were telling me earlier, before the show, I think, how many 8.0 earthquakes we have on average per year.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many is that?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Just one, on average.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just one.
unidentified		Yeah.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		However, what I really want to emphasize is, you see, this is the state of the news as it has become.
		People go, oh, wow, when they hear this, it just agitates them, but there's nothing they can do about it.
		No, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, if California, Moira, if California falls in the ocean, there's nothing people can do about it.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, you see, the big picture is that that is part of the overall scenario, because what we're coming into with the end of the prophecy cycle is like big time, earth change is all over the place, you see.
		So I just feel that by focusing unduly on every single anomalous thing, it just puts people deep into despair, you know.
		So it's not that they wouldn't want to know about it, but that is the hard news.
		It gets in your face and it gets your attention.
		So I'm presenting soft news here, which is to say chaos will increase, disorder and crime in the streets will increase.
		It's the nature of the times, and this is the nature of the challenge.
		We're coming down the birth canal, as it were.
		At the end of this cycle, at the end of the cycle, there's always the beginning of another one.
		So it never was comfortable coming down the birth canal.
		It was just like total chaos, total fright, but it was the beginning of something wonderful and new.
		And so this is sort of what's going on right now.
		So the point I want to make before you open it to call us up is that at such a time when intellectual considerations and technology is not going to help us out of these situations, what occurs, according to people like Carl Jung, the psychologist, or Tehart Deschardin, the Christian philosopher, something happens to the group mind.
		Archetypes of wholeness emerge from the collective unconsciousness and you don't have to understand what they mean or even know one when you see one for it to affect the way you think and feel.
		But what these images are that come out of the mind are sort of unconscious.
		And primarily I would just point to what happened when we got into space in 1969.
		There we were, out there, we were looking back at mother, the planet Earth, our home in the middle of space.
		And suddenly, you know, you've heard this said before, there were no boundaries, there was no latitude and longitude and geographic boundaries.
		It was just our planet where we all live.
		So that sphere is the archetypal symbol of the complete whole self.
		That is a symbol of the center.
		And the center is the organizing principle, the creative generator of everything that's to do with life and happiness and perfection.
		So when we have such images, and the world tree is another one, you know, the world tree has its roots in the ground and the branches in the heavens.
		It links heaven and earth and what you see with what you don't see.
		That kind of thing.
		These affect the way we think and creeping into people's dreams right now.
		They're showing up in art.
		There are people all over the planet that are not reported in the news doing ceremony to bring these symbols forth and just X them into the collective consciousness so they can act as mobilizing forces for the way we think and the way we do things.
		So I just wanted to say this is what's happening right now as things get more and more intense and as the quickening gets quicker.
		So there's no place to stand and that's the nature of chaos and people really don't have a sense of where they're going.
		You know, you look at all the urban sprawl, you look at the cancer center cellar, the cancer cell.
		It's all the same thing.
		You see, it's growth without restriction.
		There's no pattern of meaning.
		And so this is our problem, but there's a way through it.
		I'm just saying there's a way through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Moira, I think you're selling some people short.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you're underestimating their ability to assimilate information without panicking or quickening the quickening, but simply observing it.
		I am able to observe it, for example, without tearing my hair out.
		I simply watch the news, whether it's social, economic, political.
		I watch all of these arenas every single day.
		It's my job.
		And I nevertheless manage to stay centered.
		So in a way, it kind of sells people short a little bit to suggest because they hear factual news about an eight-point earthquake, they're going to go off the deep end.
		I don't think so.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, I really am not implying that so much as just saying that this is what takes up space as the news.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		The real good news is totally less tangible, and so it doesn't get reported.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		So that's really more my focus.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I didn't mean to smack your fingers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you didn't.
		Oh, you didn't.
		I simply wanted you to understand that many people out there are able to assimilate this information as it comes in and note what it means without adding to it because of a state of panic.
		Do you follow me?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with Moira Tims.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you there?
		Guess not.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Tims.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Well, what am I doing wrong here?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there anybody there?
		Now, I guess Moira, I may be doing something wrong here.
		Let me try one more here.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Tims.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good.
		I've got it.
		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Greetings from a fellow ham radio operator.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, indeed.
unidentified		Yes, my comment?
		Yes, sir?
		No offense to your guest, but I've never heard somebody devil speak in my whole life.
		I'm a Christian, and I can tell you that the Bible is true because it is a supernatural book to the believer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I didn't hear her say it wasn't true.
unidentified		No, but I can't think of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it a minute.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it a minute.
		Take a breath.
		What is it specifically that she said that you take issue with?
unidentified		Well, I think what she's saying is it's a mixture of what Jesus has said in the Bible, in the New Testament, but it's wrapped, you know, it's kind of like the movie said, it's wrapped in an enigma.
		I mean, what she's saying is nothing that anyone can get their hands on.
		Jesus foretold in the Bible that we would have earthquakes, we would have beginning of birth pangs, but that there would be hope at the end of all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think she said that.
unidentified		Well, no offense.
		I didn't pick up on it, and I'm sure she's a wonderful person.
		I just can't, you know, to me it's a lot of double-speak, and as a Christian, I don't really think that's something someone can get a handle on.
		You can read what she's talking about in the New Testament.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		May I just address the caller?
		Yes.
		I felt a little bit of pressure because of the commercials, and we've had trouble with my phone, so I'm having to speak extra loud, you know.
		And sometimes things get said that need to be gone into in more depth, so the full picture doesn't really come out.
		But in my book, I do devote an entire chapter to the Bible.
		I talk about the prophets, I quote the prophets, I quote Jesus, and I put it in a very positive light.
		So I think if you would browse through a copy in a bookstore, you would see that I do set the record straight for Jesus, okay?
unidentified		Well, do you feel that Jesus was a prophet, or was he the Son of God, incarnate?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Fair question.
		Definitely the Son of God.
		No question.
unidentified		Then if he was the Son of God, God is perfect and God cannot be an error.
unidentified		So therefore, whatever God says is true and perfect.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		What did I say it wasn't?
unidentified		No, but I'm wondering why you're trying to maybe mix it up, you know, with like a little bit of this and a little bit of that.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, just because some people want to hear all science, that's what's real to them.
		Some people are only Christian and they only want to hear Christian information.
		So what I've done is put the whole enchilada together so that we can emphasize our similarities because what is said in the Bible is said by other world traditions.
		And I think Christians would benefit to know that although it isn't that there's no difference, there's no separation.
		It's only in the perception.
unidentified		Now that combines a question, I do not understand what you just said.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		My perception is that Christians only want Jesus to say what is so.
		If somebody else says the same thing as Jesus, they take argument with it.
		And I am saying there's one truth, and Jesus spoke it, but other people spoke it too in its essential elements.
		And so I don't believe that we have to be exclusive.
unidentified		So you're saying that other people can be prophets?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, then would you agree that the test of a true prophet is 100% accuracy?
		No.
		Then you would contradict what the Bible says.
		Because the Jewish nation was instructed to stone to death anyone that made a prophecy that did not come to true.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, I take issue with a wrathful God who does some of the things the Bible reports.
		And what I'm saying is that...
		I do, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Follow Jesus with Christian interpretation, and we could never stop this conversation.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		It would go on forever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it would.
		That's true.
		All right, Moira and the caller, thank you very much, caller.
		Maura, hold on.
		We'll be right back to you.
		That was clarifying.
		If you feel the desire to control your own work hours, your work environment, be your own boss, choose your own work companions, then maybe.
		Must be for the top of the hour to Moira Times.
		Maura, I think that you and I look at the same things and see them perhaps somewhat differently.
		That's what we've got going on here.
		I look at the earthquakes.
		I look at the news, because I must every single day.
		And I go by my feelings, you know, my instinctual And I can't even tell you what it is.
		I wouldn't even try to put it into words except to say it's the feeling that something is coming.
		I don't overly worry about it, but I feel it.
		I note it.
		and that's about as far as I go with it.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Otherwise, I...
		And I see how sometimes a news item can be like a match to paper with certain people.
		And so I'm really aware of that.
		But I watch The Science 2, and I try and ground my information.
		I just was choosing To speak about the other end of the spectrum right now.
		Could I just say something like a PS to what the last caller brought up?
		Absolutely.
		I would like to say that the way I view prophecy is it's a gift.
		It's giving us a sneak preview of something that's in the works.
		And so the purpose of prophecy is to warn us so that if we take notice of it, we have free will and we can take certain constructive action to avert the outcome if it's a negative prophecy.
		So in that sense, if a negative prophecy is fulfilled, you could say that's the one that failed because we didn't take enough action in the right way to avert whatever the negative outcome was.
		So I feel a lot of that is what we're dealing with here.
		It's just we do the best we can, given the information that we had from the people in the past who could clearly see the nature of these cycles that repeated.
		And we all know because at this point we're feeling it as well, something is coming online that's incredibly exciting and challenging.
		It's scary at the same time.
		And so keeping our balance is really what we need to do to see this thing through.
		And that means taking note of the scientific and the facts in the real world, the earth changes, but also not avoiding spiritual realities or psychological insights that kind of take us into another way of dealing with the same issues.
unidentified		That's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Moira, do you remember I've said this to a lot of my guests lately, and really we're so close to the top of the hour that I'll hold it and we'll do it after the top of the hour.
		I don't want to get into it because there will not be time for you to respond.
		But we'll come back after the top of the hour and we'll explore our differences.
		Stay right there.
		Moira Timms is my guest.
		Her book is Beyond Prophecies and Predictions.
		And it explores prophecy, prediction, the Bible, kind of meshes it all together.
		And you'll get more of her take on that and a bit of what I've got to say after the news coming up next.
		You're listening to the CBC radio network from an area near Dreamland in the high desert.
unidentified		This is Dreamland.
unidentified		The G. Gordon Liddy Show, only on Talk 102.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The bust is especially embarrassing for Mrs. Gore, a mental health expert who promoted family values, including a crusade to rape obscene rock lyrics, and she's written a book about raising R-rated children in an X-rated society.
		But here's the tip off it to what happened, ladies and gentlemen.
		My view now of where this change is headed or what this change is about or where I feel we are in this change.
		And I can put it very simply, and I can live with it very easily and have for quite some time now.
		There was once a movie, it is my favorite analogy, called The High and Mighty.
		It was a good movie.
		Moira may be old enough to remember The High and Mighty, I don't know, but it doesn't matter.
		It involved a reciprocal engine aircraft, motors, not jets, back in the days when we flew the Pacific Ocean from here to Japan or here to wherever.
		And about halfway across the Atlantic Ocean, the reciprocal engine aircraft of that day could only carry enough aviation gas, enough gas, so that they could go from point A to point B across the whole Pacific.
		Well, somewhere out across the mid-Pacific at some point, about the halfway point, a little red light would come on in the cockpit, and under it would be a label that says point of no return.
		Now, that simply means that you now have only enough gasoline to go on to your destination.
		Should anything go wrong, you do not have enough gasoline to turn around and go back to the point you took off from.
		Now, that analogy in mind, it is my view, looking at the world, listening to the news, and observing the Earth changes that continue and quicken, that mankind's little red light came on some time ago.
		Now, I can't tell you what's at the destination.
		I had no idea where we're going, in other words.
		I simply have felt for some time that that little red light has been on, so we're on the way.
		Does that analogy make sense to you, Myra?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, it does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the way I feel.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I think that's a good analogy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm comfortable with that, centered with that, as you would say.
		I've got a fact for you here, and it says simply, if God is so perfect, then why is his creation so imperfect?
		You want to take a shot at that?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we had a thing called the fall, and that was where we ate of the tree of knowledge, and we disqualified ourselves from paradise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We got thrown out, actually.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		We fell out of the tree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think we got thrown out.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		We fell up to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We got thrown out.
unidentified		Yes.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Vanished.
		So what this means is we have free will, and the point of the whole exercise is to get back to the place we left and qualify for Godhood.
		And so the fact of the world doing the things it does and the people behaving the way they do has absolutely nothing to do with God.
		He says, if you want to do it this way, do it and learn by your own mistakes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's called free will.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Free will.
		So we learn.
		There's nothing like a bit of suffering to make us modify our behavior.
		You see.
		It's a great learning process.
		We can learn through other ways, but the pattern of human nature has been to just wait until you're up against the wall and then do something.
		So it is a place of suffering in the world.
		It hasn't been happy.
		And part of what this sorting-out period is about, I believe, and what the prophecies seem to be saying, Is that this is a time when school is over, we're coming to the graduating point.
		Some people will graduate and some people won't.
		And you look at the native traditions, people who have lived this way for hundreds of years and haven't been civilized in the same way that Western culture has, they have a phenomenon which they call an initiation.
		Many of the wise people in native culture who are shamans, people of certain abilities, great healers, great visionaries, they come to qualify for this by tremendous suffering.
		And it's like there's always this story that is the same.
		It's like a brush with death, maybe an after-death experience where you actually were dead and returned.
		You know, there are these people that have been revived.
		Something that's so bad, it tears you apart.
		And all the mythology has this model of being torn apart, falling apart, being dismembered.
		And then something miraculous happens and all the parts come back together again and reconstellate at a higher level.
		And so at this higher level, you've got an evolutionary anomaly, a person who is gifted psychically, is the healer, and moves in a way to benefit all of humanity with whom he or she comes in contact.
		So I feel, in a sense, this is what the world is coming to.
		I was talking earlier of, you know, the original paradise, that was the perfect time.
		And so in all the mythology and all these stories, we hear about the beginning when it was perfect and the ending when it wasn't.
		So as time wears on, things become more and more chaotic.
		We get further away from our state of wholeness until we fall apart so badly and the chaos is so distracting to us that the only thing we can do is to wait for some internal process to happen in the deep psyche.
		And this is where these archetypes of wholeness begin to emerge.
		It's part of an evolutionary process so that some people will not make it, some people will.
		The good news is that it's the beginning of a new birth, a new phase of human evolution.
		But it isn't arrived at without this sorting out period, without this purification.
		And that's the nature of the suffering.
		So in the big plan, God has provided a way for us to get it right, ultimately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's go back to the phone, see what they say.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Maura Tims.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, somehow they're not hearing me.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Maurita Tims.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art, and greeting to your guests.
		Listen, I'm going to ask you a generic question.
		If you were to be an alien force coming here, would you look at man as a mistake?
		I know I've asked it before, but I kind of want you to expound on it with your current guest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sure.
		Good night, Art.
		Good night.
		You want to answer that, Morris?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Would I be a gray, or would I be one of the others?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd be any color you want.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I might look at humanity as a parasite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A parasite.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a plague upon the earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A plague on the earth.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Or I might see them.
		I'm just sort of.
		I would see that we're gearing up for something that is important to us and we're about to have a collective experience that will improve our situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, you scared me for a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought I heard your positive karma slipping.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		What did I say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you said that the gray or the any colored alien might look at us as a plague, I think you said.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not the only one to have said that because we have destroyed the biosphere pretty much, you know, and we've depleted the resources that would kill each other.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's a better way to do a planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You talk of pole reversals.
		I'm beginning to feel as though we have roll reversals here.
		First time caller align, you're on the air with Marbura Tims.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, I have a comment to make to the gentleman who called in trying to say that all the prophecies that have, you know, that Jesus talked about, that he was saying that this woman saying, was she saying it doesn't fit?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he was taking the typical Christian view, sir, that there is no prophet walking the earth unless there is a 100% correct prophet, which of course would have been Jesus, and therefore there can be no prophets on earth now other than false prophets.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I have to differ with him because, first of all, all the prophecies concerning the end of the world, they pertain to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, thus being fulfilled almost, you know, 2,000 years ago.
		I'd have to agree more with your host that we're going into a new time period, or as you would say yourself, into this quickening where we're evolving into a higher being.
		But not to insult that man, but I just think it might be a little bit better if most fundamental Christians would just do a little more research and study, and then they'd probably find some of this stuff to be true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you very much.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I'll add a little something to that.
		Thank you, Carola.
		I would just add, it is very clear that what was being prophesied, because they said it would happen within the lifetime of the disciples, was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
		But because this is an archetypal prophecy, it is good for all time, for all people, and it repeats itself in different ways.
		So it wouldn't invalidate in any way the fact that something that was a fulfillment of that prophecy happened in 70 AD.
		The same prophecy is still valid now, just on a larger scale, you see?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Myra, what is your view, your personal take on Gordon Michaels Scott?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I think Gordon is extremely sincere.
		I believe he really does his homework.
		He's very honest about his track record and how he arrived at his visions.
		He has batteries of people working for him to ground the information with the scientific record.
		You know, like he had a vision about crust slippage somewhere or tectonic people.
		Oh, yes.
		What is the geological record saying?
		So I feel he's about as responsible as you can get.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As responsible as you can get.
		When he says something like, watch Aetna and watch Vesuvius, and if you see either one of them heating up, that will be the beginning of the severe cycle of the major earth changes that are coming.
		Have you heard him say that?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I haven't heard him say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's had that.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I don't know everything he said, but I know Edgar Casey also did say that, and I can tell you what that is based on.
		No, I was just wondering if you would ask Gordon Michael or Edgar Casey were he alive why they would give out this information well because the point on the planet that is exactly opposite turns out to be the Fiji basin in the Southwest Pacific you see oh yeah I do remembering from the conversation with Richard Hoagland he was talking about I mean I'm paraphrasing a laid person's language here something the way I understood
		it was like at 19.5 degrees above or below the equator is where interdimensional stuff comes into the system of a revolving sphere or goes up.
		So the place that is opposite Aetna, being the Fiji Basin, is 19.5 degrees.
		That is the largest subduction zone in the equator.
		Oh, yes, one plate folds under another.
		So 19.5 above the equator is the Hawaiian Islands where the biggest outpouring of volcanic stuff comes up.
		So apparently there are internal dynamics with the rotation of the planet.
		So Aetna is simply the point opposite the major subduction of the planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no question about it.
		No, my question went more to would you inquire of them why they would dispense this information?
		To what end?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well that is that is an echo of what I asked you earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I meant to echo it.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Because out of all the events that are occurring, there's some that are just general and random, but there's some that are pivotal and key.
		And so the idea of Aetna and the Caspian Sea and the South Pacific are key events.
		And I do have some extra information along those lines.
		Just before we went on the air, I was telling you that Geoffrey Goodman had written a book called We Are the Earthquake Generation.
		And he had given a sequence of key pivotal events based on a consensus of psychics.
		And I found these notes now.
		So he was saying, if there should be, I guess he's talking earthquakes beginning in India, there would be a sequence that would be key.
		So that would be something to look out for.
		An earthquake beginning in India, going to Japan, I guess next being showing up in Italy, in the Vesuvius area, then Mount Pelli, which is near Martinique, and then the West Coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure you're aware of the new activity in all of the areas that we just talked about.
		Moira, hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		All right, we're working very hard on getting Moira Tims back online.
		Thank you very much, telephone company, for A, the lousy connection, and then B, breaking it when we least expect it.
		But that, too, I'm centered with and used to.
		It happens all the time.
		With a little luck, Moira Tim's back on Dreamland in just a moment.
unidentified		Stay right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Moira Timms, her book, Beyond Prophecies and Predictions, Everyone's Guide to the Coming Changes.
		And we've got her back on the line once again.
		Moira, are you there?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry about that.
		Phone company has been very bad lately.
		I've got a fact here, Moira.
		Art, will you please ask Moira what her take on Hailbop is, its significance and relationship within the prophecy that she has been researching.
		Do you know of Hailbop?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I do, yes.
		I think it's extremely interesting that it's showing up right now and that, you know, there's something about it that we haven't quite got a handle on.
		The means of pole shift has never been clearly understood, but when we look back at the historical record, it does seem like the major geological changes that came about, like the extinction of the dinosaurs and the changes of the great geological ages, like the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary and things like that, were because of comet collisions.
		So, you know, many people in looking at the phenomenon of pole shifts have wondered what could be the instrument that would cause it.
		And cometary bombardment is something that has been common to all the planets in the solar system, including ours.
		So all the votes aren't in yet as far as what this comet is, if it's going to come significantly close to the Earth or not.
		But it's definitely showing up at a time when we're thinking comets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1.5 AU according to the astronomers.
		Of course, that's all we know right now.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		I'm really pleased to get through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Columbia, Missouri.
		My name's Julia.
		Hi, Julia.
		To speak to my host of my favorite radio show and the author of my favorite prophecy book.
		And I really enjoyed this book because it's so coherent.
		When I read your book, you really, you put things in a really good framework.
		And I even have like some notes from your book here, a timeline that I made, because I've read many prophecy books in the last few years, and you really do go beyond just the sort of hit-and-miss approach many of them have.
		And you did make things very coherent, and I appreciate that.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Julia.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate you letting me know.
unidentified		Well, good.
		And I was wondering, I had written down for the year 1995, you had written that we're in the beginning of a six-year process transforming our relationship to the sun and magnetism.
		And I was just curious, you know, Art's gotten a lot of calls lately from people about changes in the magnetic field, the feeling that it has changed.
		And I know that in Columbia, Missouri, as silly as it sounds, several people have noticed lately that we're at a different place on the compass than we used to be.
		And I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about that, what you meant about transforming our relationship to the sun and the relationship to magnetism, if you could elaborate on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Julia, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Moira?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I'll try and be succinct, Julia.
		It is a fact that the magnetic fields of the magnetic poles of the Earth have been shifting incredibly fast since the mid-50s.
		They've been updating the maybe isogonic maps every five years.
		The magnetic poles used to shift about 2% a year, and since 1955, it's been 400% a year.
		So they've had a satellite up to look at this to understand the mechanism at work.
		But the magnetic field of the planet is generated by the spin.
		And so as the planet slows down, the gravitation seems to weaken also.
		And that diminishes the shielding around the planet so that cosmic energies like the ultraviolets and the holes in the ozone layer are more likely to penetrate the Earth.
		It's an interesting phenomenon.
		It's part of the pole shift cycle, I believe.
		Scientists are not clear whether the magnetic poles shift at the same time as the geographic poles.
		I think periodically it could be both together.
		But the last time is, interestingly enough, the last time the magnetic poles shifted was at the time of the flood.
		That would have been about 10,400 BC.
		And so the magnetism controls the planetary grid.
		I could say something a little bit more about the planetary grid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But let me ask this, Maura.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that the pole change, when it occurs, is a slow, gradual process from a mortal point of view, or is it an instantaneous process?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, historically, it's been an instantaneous process.
		And so what I'm thinking, and this is pure speculation, of course, if everybody acted appropriately for one day, you know, whatever that means, that would create incredible change on the planet, right?
		I believe what we do collectively influences this kind of thing.
		I think there's a misunderstood connection between, you know, human consciousness and geophysical realities.
		So I would suggest that if we could all do it right or improve the way we do things, then it could be a gradual process because it is a process that needs to recur periodically.
		On the other hand, if we continue to screw up the way we have, it could be entirely catastrophic.
		So we don't really know.
		But anyway, when I was talking about a change in our relationship to the sun, this was related to the fact that the sunspotting cycle has also been irregular.
		And since, I think, 75, there have been more sunspots than usual.
		So these solar storms that periodically recur have been out of phase and more intense.
		And it's a scientific fact that sunspotting does affect human consciousness in various measurable ways.
		So this all has to do with this evolutionary shift that we're embarked upon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We don't have a lot of time, so let's see how many calls we can get in.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Richmonds.
unidentified		Hi.
		How are you doing?
		I wanted to backtrack a little bit, if I may.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, sir?
unidentified		I'm in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
unidentified		My name is Stephen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Stephen.
unidentified		Back, I believe it was in the last hour, you were talking about the tombs underneath the Sphinx.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I've been very interested in that.
		And there was a couple of things I was wondering that I wanted to touch on.
		First of all, I wanted to know if there was any way you could tell me how I could follow that.
		Where would I go to get information on that matter?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the answer is simple.
		Listen to my program.
		It's all here all the time.
		And to repeat what Moira said, she talked with Gordon Michael Stallion about two days ago.
		And Moira, you check me if I'm wrong, but he told you that the message was that what will be revealed in Egypt over the next year will cause people to gasp.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		I didn't mean to say that there were tombs underneath the Sphinx, but just canals.
		But there has been a workman's village excavated in the area where there are tombs.
		I am taking a group of people to Egypt in March, the spring equinox next year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		We're going to do some grid engineering.
		We're going to reenact an ancient Egyptian ceremony to bring positive energy into the planet and the grid system at sacred sites.
		So this has implications for planetary healing and personal inner work, too.
		So we'll be exploring some of these sites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Tims.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, yes.
unidentified		Your guest had mentioned Graham Hancock's book, Fingerprints of the Gods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And in that, he had mentioned, or actually he gave a date.
unidentified		I believe it was 2012.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		December, sometime in December.
unidentified		Well, you had had an interview with Richard Hoagland, and he had said that he had gotten together with Graham Hancock and come to the conclusion that the date was inaccurate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By about six years, I think.
unidentified		Yeah, spring of 97, I believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Which is right around the time when Hailbop is supposed to come around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right again, April 1st.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Now, your guest had mentioned that where was I going with this?
		I'm sorry.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		The idea of 2012 was a consistent idea to all the civilizations of the ancient world.
		They did not have a Gregorian calendar.
		And so Mayan shaman that are very active right now give the year 2012 as the date.
		It was a consistent date for many of the ancient cultures.
		They all agreed on that.
		So I don't think it's for a Western student to invalidate that, you know.
		So there's something going on.
		It will be a culmination of the whole thing.
		And the way the prophecy goes is everything will be complete around the year 2000.
		And the way the Maya tell it is the additional years until 2012, they call that the beak of time.
		It's a sorting out period.
unidentified		Well, could this comet, in fact, be the, like what the Sumerians had mentioned a long time ago, Nebru?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that if you'll recall, we've had a recent guest that have called it the Harbinger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had Zachariah Sitchin on, and he called it the harbinger.
unidentified		Like a precursor?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		Yes, uh-huh.
		You may have missed that show.
		Would you care to comment on that, Maura?
		I had Zachariah Sitchin on.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes, this is possible.
		I think it's still on the outcome is still uncertain.
		There have been a lot of conferences in various parts of the world on cometary collisions.
		It's definitely something that people have been giving attention to, and they've even been trying to get a government program together to deflect any vectors that would come too close within the Earth's orbit.
		So, you know, it remains to be seen what the scientists had to tell us about it.
		But mythically, it's arriving at the right time to have some impact upon the Earth.
		Whether that's psychological or physical, I couldn't say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Timms.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, this is Mark from Collinsville.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Illinois.
		All right.
		Hello, Art.
		Hi.
unidentified		Noria, earlier you mentioned the shaking of the heavens, and I believe you said that the Greek translation of heaven was the planet Uranus.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		No, I said that the word is Uranus.
unidentified		Uranus, Uranus.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		So that is, you know, the root for words that have to do with that.
unidentified		That sounds close.
unidentified		Have you ever considered the Sumerian translation of heaven as being the firmament, the hammer bracelet, or what we call today the asteroid belt, which lies between the orbits of Jupiter and Mars?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		No, I wasn't aware of that.
unidentified		You need to read some of Second's books.
		Some of these.
		And with this Hale Bop, it's supposed to be coming between Jupiter and Mars, and so did Nebru.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is now presently out beyond the orbit of Jupiter.
unidentified		Yes, but it's supposed to come between Jupiter and Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite correct.
unidentified		On retrograde.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call toll-free, 1-800-618-8255.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, sir.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Moira Tims.
		Hello there.
		Oh, no, I've got the wrong line.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Moira Tims.
unidentified		Aye.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio officer.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're on the air.
unidentified		Uh, yes, I had a question for Mara.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, where are you?
unidentified		Uh, in Fort Smith, Arkansas.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead and ask.
unidentified		Uh, yes, I had a question.
		Uh, I was wondering, does she believe in the six-day theory concerning a day with uh goddess like a thousand years?
		And if she does, uh, how can she correlate that with uh human mankind continuing to live on and die out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that creation was as is described in the Bible, Moira?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's metaphorical.
		I mean, celestial time is different than Gregorian time.
		That's all linear, you know, chronology that we have.
		I think there were six stages of evolution.
		You know, we got that first off, there was energy, then there was gas, right?
		And then there was plants and animals and humans.
		And I think we're at the point where we're going to progress from Homo sapiens to probably something that would be more like Homo Christos, a blend of human and divine, superhuman people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or another jump in evolution.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes, definitely a jump in evolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there for a moment.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Laprina is liquid aspirin.
		It will relieve pain of any sort that you've got.
		Now, obviously, if you've got a headache, you're not going to spray it all over your head.
		But some guys send me a fact like that.
		But for any other part of the body, sore knee, sore shoulder, rheumatism, arthritis, those kinds of things that you would normally take aspirin for, because aspirin is a wondrous pain reliever.
		You don't have to swallow it.
		It doesn't have to go through your digestive system.
		You can spray it on.
		Somebody should have thought of this 100 years ago.
		Laprina is available now.
		It's aspirin.
		It's in a liquid spray-on bottle.
		And the way you get it is call 1-800-308-4565.
		It's a very reasonable cost.
		It's a bargain for this revolutionary new product.
		Now, they can tell you at Health Naturally, the company, how you can get even a greater savings.
		Call them 1-800-308-4565.
		We all know that information is what it's all about.
		And if you want to be plugged into the latest, hottest, hard data on UFOs, I've got something for you.
		Please get a pen and paper.
		It's called UFO News World Report, and it's just brimming with the kind of information you've been looking for.
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		Find out what's happening.
		Call 1-800-830-9830.
		That's 1-800-830-9830 24 hours a day.
		Or send a check for $19.95 to Box 2757 Anaheim, California, 92814.
		It's guaranteed you'll love it or your money back.
		Call 1-800-830-9830.
		All right, and to remind you to get a copy of this program or any other Dreamland program, or to renew your subscription for our newsletter, which goes up in price December 10th.
		So it's good that you would do it now before that date comes, and it's getting close.
		The number is 1-800-917-4278.
		1-800-917-4278, by the way, the January issue of our newsletter is going to be all about, exclusively about what I call the quickening.
		That number again is 1-800-917-4278.
		Mara Tim's back again.
		Mara, are you there?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Arthur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
		The phone company is nice to us one more time.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Mara Tims.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, all right.
		Hi, Mara.
		My question is: first I need to know, you said you believe there's a God or a good force.
		Do you also believe there's an evil?
		Leads up to my question.
		You do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, the answer is yes.
unidentified		Okay, then I'm a Christian, so kind of, I don't want to, I'm setting you up here.
		If there is a good and an evil, and I believe the Bible is true, would not the evil, if I was evil, say, I would set up many, many religions.
		I wouldn't have just Satanism.
		I would have many religions so close to what the actual truth is to distract and lead people astray and muddy up the waters, so to speak.
		And I feel that the prophecies in the Bible lead up and tell us about a one-world religion that we'll all believe the same thing in this higher consciousness.
		And I think that the truth is mixed in so much in your message and many other messages as to distract from the Bible.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		That's a very interesting point of view.
		I guess I would say, why would an all-powerful God allow such so many people to go down false, misleading trails?
		That's not my kind of God.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Moira?
		A wise, loving, omnipotent God, in my view, would create unity within all people.
		He would not create division where one small minority would control the truth.
		And when you understand Jungian psychology, there's a way to realize that whatever is the evil is the shadow part of ourselves.
		It's the evil part that we're not willing to acknowledge in ourselves, but we project it out onto other people.
		But because we're all more similar than we are different, if you will abandon your own shadow and really do your inner work and your own inner spiritual work, whether it's aligning with Jesus or the true religion of your choice, then you will realize that only that which we don't understand is perceived as of the devil and of evil.
		So unity is what God wants.
		He doesn't want division where there's only the saved and the sinners and the condemned.
		And so I feel any religion that promotes separation is not the true religion.
		And I feel that certain misguided attitudes are the real devil in the world.
		And the people who think that they are some of the people who think that they are the only ones are part of the problem.
		I'm sorry to say that, but that's how I feel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think there is no single path.
		There are many paths, probably headed in both directions.
		And a Supreme Court justice once said of pornography that he could not quite define it, but knew it when he sees it.
		And most of us know good and no evil when we see it or feel it or do it or think about it, right?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that would mean there would be many paths.
		One more quick question.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Moira Tims.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, this is Switzerland Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jeremy.
unidentified		Quick comment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Art, as a student of life, and you know, I've been calling and listening to this show for years, it's my opinion that mankind, as we know it, has reached the point of no return in the early 70s.
unidentified		Now, if only 50% of all the predictions come true that were given to us by all the prophets the last 500 years, the human animal, that what we are, will in the end learn to live together and respect creation and nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		That's going to have to do it.
		Moira, where can people get your book?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Well, they can get it nationwide in all bookstores.
		If they're out of it, it can be special ordered.
		Or they can call me on my voicemail, and I'll be happy to take their name and address.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what is your number?
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		I would just like to say if anybody is interested in traveling on a very special historic trip with me as a group to Egypt to do some important and exciting and powerful work at the Equinox, please let me know on the voicemail also and I'll send you details.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		It's area code 541-541-343-343-5392.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		5392.
		Let me give that again.
		You tell me if I'm wrong.
		It's area code 541-343-5392.
		Is that correct?
		All right, and you're on the way to Egypt and would not mind taking people of a like mind with you.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Kindred spirits, light workers, people who want to do planetary healing and have a wonderful time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Moira, thank you for being on the program.
moura tims ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, and blessings on your work and lights on your path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have a good night, Moira.
		And the same to all of you out there.
		The hours are closing on the book, the autographed book deal.
		It's 1-800-864-7991 from the high desert.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Good night.
		This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience, not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not patched.
		Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.

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