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March 5, 1995 - Art Bell

01:52:45

Dreamland with Art Bell - Pres. of Tesla - J. W. McGinnis

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29:29

j w mcginnis

01:05:31

linda moulton howe

05:20

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Podcast at this time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please do not call.
		Put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped.
		And yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
		This is Dreamland.
		It absolutely is.
		Sunday evening and another dreamland.
		Hi, everybody.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Good to be here.
		As usual, Linda Howe will be here from Philadelphia.
		And following Linda Howe this evening, we're going to enter the world of Tesla.
		Now, this is something that we have never explored before, and I know not what awaits.
		We have never really looked into Mr. Tesla.
		I know there are a lot of rumors, maybe even myth, about Tesla and Nicola Tesla, and we're going to try and find out tonight what the truth really is.
		Our guest is going to be J.W. McGinnis.
		He heads the International Tesla Society in Colorado, Suisse, Colorado.
		He ought to be a guy who would know.
		So we'll get to all of that in just a moment.
		I've got a letter from a listener that might be of some interest to a number of people.
		Some people that have seen these triangular craft or other types are suspecting there might be some kind of military surveillance technology.
		These folks could be right on in guessing about this possible new technology.
		These people felt these craft were somehow scanning houses and buildings in their neighborhood, searching for something.
		Well, the craft have been seen shooting beams down on the roofs of houses and a mist arising from the roofs where the beams caught the roof.
		Triangle craft have been reported from about 46 now per the UFO reporting center in Seattle.
		One theory is they are using some kind of microwave device to look into the houses and search for weapons.
		The disarming of America syndrome.
		Well, guess what I just read in the Sunday paper?
		You guessed it.
		New radar device puts micropower to work for future.
		It sounds like science fiction, but it's 21st century reality.
		Tom McEwen, a nuclear engineer at Lawrence Livermore Labs, has invented a radar that will make the detecting system an everyday part of life.
		The patented hand-sized radar, which emits microwaves that can penetrate anything but metal, is safe and inexpensive.
		His invention, micropower impulse radar, is unlike any other radar now being used and vastly different from radar used to detect aircraft.
		The new radar is distinctive because it can display an accurate three-dimensional image on a screen.
		Wow.
		It is sophisticated enough to detect a hidden terrorist breathing on the other side of a wall.
		The radar operates at a level of emissions no more dangerous than that of a cellular telephone.
		The detector can also be used for finding metal pipes and wiring in walls, and a commercial version for contractors is going to be available as early as August and priced about $100.
		So, this radar can literally see into buildings, could be used to find metal objects like guns, hand grenades, and so forth, and tell how many people are in a house and exactly where they are in relation to the weapons.
		Nifty little device for the military, police, or criminals.
		This is just now going public, so you can bet the military and the intelligence community had first dibs on developing some new toys with this awesome new technology.
		And that came to me across the internet, so there you've got it.
unidentified		In a moment, Linda Howe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Weeks three.
		Now, to Linda Howe back in Philadelphia.
		Linda, good evening.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Arit.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I was really interested in your report about the issue of triangular craft putting beams down in 40-some states, reported.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Because in the Greensburg Tribune Review reported yesterday that on Friday, this most immediate Friday, at approximately 1.45 in the afternoon, two people saw strange floating objects over Jeanette, Pennsylvania.
		And one man named Philip Solomon said that at first I thought someone was flying kites because they looked sort of triangular.
		But when I got a better look, you could tell that they were not kites.
		Solomon said the objects appeared to be white and floated above the clouds, which is probably rather high.
		And at the same time, he saw hundreds of confetti-like objects floating around the triangular-shaped objects.
		This is over in western Pennsylvania.
		Margaret Cugino, also living in that area, watched the objects for about five minutes and said, quote, they zipped up, down, sideways.
		I don't know what in the devil they were, unquote.
		Pennsylvania UFO investigator Stan Gordon said that the night before, which was last Thursday on March 2nd, several southwestern Pennsylvania television stations and emergency centers were deluged with calls from people reporting weird light beams between 8 and 11.15 p.m. coming down to the ground over a five-county area.
		And since my report about CIA development of a technology to affect the retina of the eye so that aerial craft will appear invisible, I have heard from several people with more information about either disappearing helicopters, which I will have some more reports on in the future, or objects that change shape suddenly in the sky.
		One is a Dreamland listener named Tina Hoflander of Reno, Nevada.
		On January 6th this year, at 2 o'clock in the morning at a location southeast of Doyle, California in the mountains below Eagle's Peak, she suddenly awoke.
		She told me what happened and again it involves a change to a triangle and here she is now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tina of Reno.
unidentified		And I looked out and I saw What appeared to be a window in a home, a large bay window with yellow, or excuse me, red and green twinkly Christmas tree lights surrounding it.
		And I looked again because where this was, there is no house there, and especially not up in the air.
		It was about a mile away, and I stood just absolutely transfixed, and neither one of my pups were disturbed, and I thought, well, this is really, maybe it's some kind of an obstacle illusion.
		So I stepped out on my front porch, and I looked again.
		These lights were very stable.
		It did not move.
		Yet within the blink of an eye, it went from green and red to a solid white color and to a horizontal triangle.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I have your good drawing from your letter, and for listeners, you've got a rectangle that has those red and green lights around it, and then if people could imagine taking a triangle and lying it on its side, that would be what it transformed into, correct?
unidentified		Yes, ma'am.
		Exactly.
		And the thing that amazed me is that I had no fear whatsoever.
		Neither one of my dogs were concerned about it.
		And it did not make a sound, nor did it move.
		Like I said, it went from the Christmas tree light going clockwise to this solid white light and changed shape.
		And whatever's going on in these mountains, I think they are interested in.
		I was informed that there is a military base in this area.
		I do not know the name, but there is an old ammunition dump that supposedly the military is destroying this old ammunition.
		And there are times that you can hear this, the bang or the boom of exploding ammunition.
		But here lately there have been a lot of movement with helicopters.
		They have no markings.
		They have no numbers on them.
		And they kind of go back and forth across this one mountain range.
		And there is absolutely no reason for them to be here.
		One person said they thought they were logging.
		But all they're doing is trailing this like a cable, a very long cable.
		There was a large one and a small one, but not at any time in two months did I see any logs or anything else.
		I'll tell you something that's really strange, Linda, is that after all of a sudden for two solid months, there was like a Huey, you know, the double-bladed helicopter, the large one, and it was painted red and white.
		There were no markings on it whatsoever.
		I have a pair of binoculars because I'm always looking for the wildlife.
		And then there was a smaller helicopter.
		Same color.
		Both were constantly going back and forth trailing these cables.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Now, when you say trailing, were they actually hanging in the air or were they sort of floating in the air behind the helicopter?
unidentified		They were coming out of the bottom of the helicopter, probably at least, I'd say, 200 feet of cable dangling behind these helicopters.
		But they were attached to the choppers themselves.
		But immediately after these helicopters stopped coming around, there were two green Huey helicopters, as the military would use, no serial numbers.
		I only saw them one time.
		They went over the mountain where these other two helicopters had been going.
		And two days after that, there were two jet fighters that flew through this valley, and there has been no activity since.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		In that area, Aric, where she has been seeing this combination of the strange light transformation activity from the rectangle to the triangle, and then followed by this military activity, is in the Eagle's Peak area,
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		which is directly east of Pyramid Lake, Nevada, and not too far south from the Alturas, California area in Raya, Nevada, where I've reported this past year about many strange triangle-shaped and disc-shaped objects that have been sighted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, Lynn, it was my one great sighting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I saw that triangle craft before I began hearing a lot of triangle reports, and now every other UFO report these days involves a triangle.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right, and I have that case that I reported on that went back to the early 70s of a triangle that the man estimated had to have been longer than a football field that was moving rapidly over that remote mountain area.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And the issue of whether we're dealing with United States government technology or a non-human intelligence technology or U.S. government technology based on some sort of alien technology is probably one of the bigger questions right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
		I saw the thing myself, close in, Linda, and I couldn't answer that question myself.
		There'd be no way.
		I was left wondering exactly the same thing.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Well, if there's anybody listening who has any information confidentially or on the record, I would appreciate it if they would get a hold of me.
		And I would like to give my address and my fax number.
		And I apologize to many people last week.
		I gave out the wrong number for my fax number, and I apologize for the frustration.
		I will make sure that you have the right fax number right now.
		It is area code 215-491-9842.
		That's my fax number, 215-491-9842.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Should I ask what number you don't don't give the number you did give out, but was it yours or somebody else's?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		No, it was an office number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		But there were many people trying to dial faxes, and I felt badly that I had personally scrambled the number.
		Oh, okay.
		And the address is Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
		And the zip code is 19006.
		I have gotten some extraordinarily interesting information concerning this whole issue of disappearing helicopters.
		And I will continue to follow up and try to learn more and keep reporting as I can learn.
		And hopefully you and I can continue to exchange information on these triangles and the beams.
		It's quite interesting that this is now suddenly being reported such a broad region of the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Wonderful.
		Thank you, Linda, and we'll look for you next week in Philadelphia or somewhere else.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I should be here in Philly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, excellent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Linda Howe.
		And Triangle Craft.
		That, as you know, ladies and gentlemen, was my one big sighting.
		I saw one of those.
		So when people talk about Triangle Craft, it definitely gets my attention.
		And that now is going, I would guess, on about a year and a half, something like that ago.
		All right, in just a moment, coming up, Mr. J.W. McGinnis, who is the president of the International Tesla Society.
		And I'm very much looking forward to this because I don't know a lot about Nicola Tesla.
		So we're going to find out together about both Mr. Tesla and Mr. McGinnis.
		Fine.
		All right, we've only got, as we usually do, a few moments before the bottom of the hour.
		But I don't have a lot of information on Mr. J.W. McGinnis.
		So first of all, let us say good evening, sir.
		Are you there?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am, Art, and thank you for giving me an opportunity to be on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I did so as a result of a letter you sent suggesting the audience might want to know about Nicola Tesla, and I certainly agree, and that's why we have you on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I don't know a lot about you personally, Mr. McGinnis, and perhaps you could tell the audience in a couple of minutes here who you are and why you're doing what you're doing.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, Art, I had my formal training in radio engineering, and I grew up in Minnesota.
		I lived in the St. Paul area.
		I later moved from Minnesota down to Iowa, had lived in Nebraska for some time, had also spent some time on the East Coast, and finally settled down in the Colorado area.
		This is after, you know, searching about different areas of the country where I thought I might want to live.
		I finally found this area and I was just really sold on it.
		Since I've been here, I've worked as a national sales manager for a computer company out of Palo Alto, California.
		And then following that, after working there for about approximately one year, I had a kind of a family tragedy.
		I lost my daughter in just a terrible automobile accident.
		And I knew then that I wasn't really happy with what I was doing or where I was going.
		And I was looking for something else, something that would, well, where I could, you know, feel proud of what I was doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		So I became acquainted with the International Tesla Society.
		At that time, they were in their, well, it was their third or fourth year after being founded in 1984.
		And I came along in 87 and then became president in 88.
		I like this organization because it's basically a volunteer type of organization.
		It was originally composed largely of engineers and physicists and other people that were in the scientific field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're going to have to break it off there and we'll pick it up right on the other side of the bottom of the hour.
		J.W. McGinnis is my guest.
		He's president of the International Tesla Society.
		Also, a notable birthday.
		It's Michelangelo's birthday tomorrow, which means if you've got a computer infected with a Michelangelo virus, you're in trouble.
unidentified		Check it out tonight.
		This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
		Please do not call.
		From the Kingdom of Nigh, you're here in Dreamland with Art Bell.
		To participate in the program, call toll-free, 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed two other numbers for you.
		One is the East of the Rockies number when we get to it here, which is 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-5033.
		And my fax number, if you would like to fax in a question related to Tesla, the number is Area Code 702-727-8499.
		That's my fax number, Area Code 702-727-8499.
		And now, J.W. McGinnis, once again.
		Oh, wait a minute.
		We'll put you over here, Mr. McGinnis.
		There we are.
		Mr. McGinnis, you're back on the air again.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		In a quick summary, our organization was founded 10 years ago with the focus on bringing some recognition to Tesla in areas where he's not given the true credit that he deserves.
		And as we as an organization grew, with a lot of help from our volunteers who just seem to come to the plate all The time, we decided to expand ourselves and start publishing a magazine and then to go further and open up a bookstore where people could get the materials that art you just can't normally get through normal channels when you reach out to get books, especially those books that would fall into what we would call the scientific field.
		Although the bookstore now carries hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of titles, we do have one of the best selections of scientific material that you can find anywhere.
		This has helped produce a revenue stream for our organization, which has clawed out a name for itself over these past 10 years.
		And we've reached a stage now where we are the world's fastest-growing science interest organization.
		And by that, what I'm talking about is an organization that's dedicated to science, not necessarily Tesla science alone, but in all fields of science, be it in medicine or transportation or the environment, we felt the true issues were not being expressed and that the truth was not forthcoming from our government and from many of the agencies that our government runs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's focus on Nikola Tesla for now, if we could.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll get to the rest of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, who was Nikola Tesla?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, first off, and I always get questions about this, his lineage is always questioned, was he Croatian or was he Serbian?
		The man was a Serbian.
		His father was a Serbian priest.
		His mother was a Serbian woman.
		Her name was Mandic.
		And these are facts.
		However, people that are Croatian can claim him, because in the village in which he was born, in Simli, in an area that at the time was known as the Austro-Hungarian Empire, when it later became a federation that was known as Yugoslavia, the area where Tesla was born did indeed wind up into the geographical bounds of Croatia.
		It's enormously important that people know that Tesla is beloved by everybody in that part of the world.
		And it's surprising, well, excuse me, it's surprising sometimes when we see all of these violent outbreaks taking place from a land that produced such a great inventor and great humanitarian as Nikola Tesla.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, they're fighting about everything else, so why not that?
		Yeah.
		All right, well, so then...
		I mean, what kind of a childhood did he have that led him into this later career?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, he had a very auspicious childhood.
		He had a childhood in which he learned how to invent.
		He learned how to envision.
		And he got a lot of his creativity from his mother, who was an inventor herself.
		And back in that day of the early and mid-1800s, women had a very severe time.
		Their tasks were very hard and so forth.
		And Tesla's mother was a person who was very clever, that found neat ways in which women could deal with some of the heavier loads of the time, like filling all the kerosene lamps and the stoves and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The old expression, necessity being the mother of invention, I think, right?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And being a woman of great craft herself, she notices Tesla, as he's at a very young age, he developed what was to become later known as his bladeless pump.
		This was at a time when Tesla was but five years old and had designed a device that would spin in water.
		Certainly, most children at one time or another, you'll build these little paddle wheel devices.
		You'll put them into water with the hopes of it spinning up.
		It never does.
		And it doesn't for a fact of what we call saturating the buckets.
		Well, with this device that Tesla had, he lowered it down into the water.
		It was just a flat piece of wood in a cylindrical shape.
		It was on an axis, and it spun up right away.
		His mother was right on the spot.
		She saw what he did, and I mean, she hailed it right off because she knew herself that nobody had ever done this before.
		And this was when he was five years old.
		With the encouragement that she gave him, he became the greatest inventor the world has ever seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's how it began.
		There's a lot of myth, I think, around Nikola Tesla.
		I will have people that will call my shows all the time, Mr. McGuinness, and they will say, Tesla did this or did that, attributing incredible things to him.
		What in fact is true about Nikola Tesla?
		They will say, for example, he invented a way that everybody in the world could receive electrical power through the air.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's two different schools of thoughts on that, and he had two distinct different ways of transmitting this electricity, not necessarily through the air all the time, but through the earth itself.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		The earth can become a superconductive property quite easily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, as an example, let me first say that copper is a good conductor, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, it is.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		But it does have its fallacies, and one of them is that anytime you drop too much voltage onto it, it's going to reach a state that we call saturation.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		It just won't carry anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, we have a big business worldwide, and it's the silicon chip industry.
		What makes silicon chips so valuable, Art?
		One of the main things is this.
		The more voltage I drop on to that silicon chip, the more conductive it becomes.
		Did you hear that?
		It becomes more conductive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More conductive, yes.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Now, the Earth itself is comprised of about 98% silica.
		So the Earth itself becomes a very, very highly conductive medium, far more than what copper is itself.
		And when we would start to exchange these large volumes of electricity that Tesla had talked about, you would be having electricity transported very, very economically right through the Earth's crust itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		through the earth well uh...
		uh...
		you're suggesting it would be inefficient uh...
		How can you demonstrate that?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, he demonstrated it here in Colorado Springs way back in 1900.
		And what he had constructed here was a laboratory, and at the focus of this laboratory was his magnifying transmitter.
		This was a device that could deliver an immense amount of electricity at any one given spot.
		Although it was never measured, the figures are to go all over the place, up to 100 million volts.
		You take your pick somewhere in that area.
		Well, anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about very high voltage at low current?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		At low current.
		And what Tesla did here is after he had prepared his experiment and he was ready to show the world that he could transmit this electricity using the wires, he called in the public.
		He called in the reporters.
		And he stationed them at his laboratory located here in Colorado Springs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And then north of Colorado Springs, about 26 miles along one of these foothills.
		And I have to tell our listeners that Colorado Springs is a mountainous area.
		And there's a difference between the mountains and the foothills.
		But the foothills are the preceptors of the mountains themselves.
		On the top of one of these foothills, he set up a bank of 250, 50-watt bulbs.
		And then, 25-some miles away down here at Colorado Springs, he waits till night.
		He fires up his magnifying transmitter and he injects a tremendous amount of voltage into the ground plane.
		Mark, once he did this, he created a pressurized field here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is that?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, here we have all of this Earth's crust, and we have everything static, and then suddenly we're pouring in millions and millions of volts of electricity.
		This is going to cause a pressurized field, and immediately upon doing this, the lights were visible from his laboratory in Colorado Springs.
		There was a beautiful yellow haze.
		Now, electricity itself, Art, has but one mission, and that mission is to go to ground.
		So simply putting all of this electricity in the ground is not what made those lights light up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, what Tesla did devise was an apparatus, and Art, this is amongst many other things that I'll be talking about as we go along.
		But this was an apparatus that Tesla had devised, which had the ability to attract the positive ions out of what used to be referred to as the electrosphere.
		We call it the ionosphere now.
		But he took these positive ions, attracted them down in a pencil-sequent beam, a very narrow beam, down to a charged ground plate.
		So once we have these positive ions coming down, then in combination with the pressurized field...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He brought positively charged ions down.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Down to the charged surface.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a narrow beam.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		In a narrow beam.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From what?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		From the Earth's ionosphere itself.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		The Earth's ionosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, how do you do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got to understand one before I can understand it.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, how did he do it is still a mystery to all of us because this is one of the items that was seized by the FBI in 1943 and we haven't seen it since.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Seized by the FBI?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Seized by the FBI upon his death in January of 1943.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay, there are...
		Sure.
		Number one, we have the case of our government withholding information from the public.
		And if it made sense, Art, I could understand it.
		The man's been dead for 50 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in spite of that, Oh, yes, I think our government has exploited his technology from the very beginning.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And Tesla developed a relationship with the government early on in this century, way back in 1917.
		He met at that time the Assistant Secretary of the Navy, one H. Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and had developed various technologies for the Navy.
		Now, Tesla has been credited with the discovery of coherent light, or, put simply, laser technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, again, I don't want to get away from what you were beginning to develop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just wanted to try to understand it, and so that with some technology that we still don't understand.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		We still don't understand it, and because the keys are being held by those agencies that have expropriated this material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so anyway, he brought down this beam from the ionosphere with charged, positively charged particles.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then what?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, it completes a circuit.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		We have a negative charge coming from the ground plane, and we have a positive charge coming from outer space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From a ground plane.
		You mean the Earth or do you mean?
		Simply the Earth or a ground?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		So simply the Earth is what would be used under his original concept.
		He was to have one of these magnifying transmitters variously at about every 50 miles.
		They would be effective in a 25-mile radius.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		But again, you say from the Earth.
		Now, did he have some sort of ground plane, ground wires running to establish a ground, or how did he do that?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Mark, the Earth is acting as a capacitor.
		The Earth is charged now.
		It has all of this juice in it.
		And now we're going to bring a corresponding charge down to it.
		And that will complete the circuit.
		And there will be light.
		And that is what he demonstrated here in Colorado in 1900.
		And this is something that has never been repeated by nobody.
		Unfortunately, the very craft which he developed for this year is just amongst a lot of other papers that were seized by the FBI upon his death in 1943.
		And I feel it gives rise to a lot of people that will speculate out of hand and maybe out of heart.
		They won't have the real information, if you know what I mean.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In 1943, by what regulation or law did the FBI seize all of this stuff?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is what is strange about it, Art.
		I've been working on a book, and I probably won't be finished on it for a couple of years yet, but I've pretty well read everything that everybody has Had to say about them.
		And for the most part, all of the literature seems to be pretty good.
		But I do think there's some areas where there is some weakness, and I hope to fill them up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back to Mr. J.W. McGinnis, president of the International Tesla Society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, Mr. McGinnis, let me ask you: you've studied this more thoroughly than any of us have.
unidentified		Do you believe that he did this?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Oh, transmitted electricity with no wires?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		That's been confirmed, you know, very thoroughly.
		Because when he did it, he called in engineers, he called in newspapers and so forth.
		He was very dramatic in the way that he did his testing.
		He wanted the public to be as part of the theme as well as professional confirmation.
		And he had all of that in everything he did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you say it produced, that many miles away, a glow.
		Was there anybody there actually confirming that...
		There was.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And, you know, you're talking 50-50 watt bulbs.
		You're talking 250 watts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought it was 250-50 watt bulbs.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		250-50 watt bulbs.
		So multiply that, and what do we have?
		We have, you know, that's quite a bit of wattage to be producing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it produced efficiently, Mr. McGinnis?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		In other words, I'll tell you how efficient it was.
		When he finished Epart, when he got to his final plan, all of this would have operated under its own initiative.
		No power coming from anywhere.
		The Earth itself, as Tesla had explained, is nothing but a huge, huge capacitor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Capacitor.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		The Earth is just swimming in energy.
		And Tesla found a way that unlocked those keys where we could get this energy available to us.
		And he did it in a lot of different ways.
		That was the wireless transmission through the Earth, but he also dealt in radiant energy.
		When we're talking about radiant energy, we're talking about air that is in the aether.
		You take a cubic yard of air in front of you.
		Einstein has said it, and Tesla said it, as well as dozens of others.
		There's enough energy in that cubic to split this planet in half.
		So when we find people that say, well, gee, wizard, you're getting power out of the air, you know, you're going to run out of it very fast.
		You're not.
		I mean, we are just, you know, in an ocean of this energy.
		It's everywhere, and it's strong.
		And right now, one of the things that we do on an annual basis is we have a science conference, and this year we have our extraordinary science conference.
		Basically, what we do is, I travel around the country, I'm looking for talents that are out there that are, you know, putting their money where their mouth is.
		There's so many of these people that are rip-offs.
		They make these claims, and then when somebody stands on their doorstep with a meter, suddenly there's a big gulf and they don't want to go through with the test.
		But separating them from others, there's a lot of talents out there.
		What we try to do is to give them that platform so the public can be aware of them and so that it can accelerate the transformation of that product into reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Meganis, there is nothing the world needs more than energy.
		We expend a great deal of money and sometimes go to war, as we may soon have to, over oil, which is energy.
		If we had this technology, why in the hell would we keep it secret?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are such things as selfish interests, and I know we have enough time this evening to explain a couple of different areas where...
		Well, they're not keeping it secret, but look at how they're doing it.
		They are going to have us go right to that last barrel of oil.
		Then we'll get over to gas, our natural gas, which we are the Saudi Arabia of.
		It's all like it's planned and it's all like it's regulated.
		But these people that get out there and show some innovation and so forth, they are not the ones that are able to capitalize on the government's largett.
		When the government gives these grants out, they have some very, very mean restrictions on them.
		And sometimes it means that that party who has developed that technology may have to turn it over to EPA and let the EPA assign who gets the technology.
		In other words, the government can put your technology in your number one competitor's hands, and you can't do a thing about it.
		We've got some cockeyed laws that hold back this innovation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I know we do, but I don't know that that explains this.
		We still have a big private sector out here, Mr. McGinnis, a great big private sector, and people love money.
		And if there was a way privately that was discovered to transmit power through the air or to gather power from the ionosphere, I just can't believe that somebody would not have by now done it.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, it seems, and it's almost, it goes beyond the idea of conspiracy.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		It's almost blatant when you start to see a government agency hold back information that could be very, very positive and very helpful to us in developing that technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Mr. McGinnis, but there is more than just the government out there.
		There is a private sector as well.
		We'll come back and discuss this after the top of the hour.
		We've got our top of the hour break.
		J.W. McGinnis is our guest.
		He is from the International Tesla Society.
		He's actually president of that organization.
		There'll be more in a moment.
unidentified		This is Dreamland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. J.W. McGinnis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. McGinnis, are you there?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am, Mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we were kind of, we were talking about how this technology, and I would like to understand this.
		How is this suppressed?
		In other words, why wouldn't somebody develop it today, some private entrepreneur, inventor someplace, and say, hallelujah, I've got it.
		We'll go to the newspapers and the networks.
		Free energy.
		Or energy, if not free, at least distributed through the air, nearly free.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, we haven't reached it yet, Art, but now more than ever, I think we're finally at a state where there's many people that have various promising technologies that they're at the two-yard line.
		They need to get Punched across.
		One of the things that holds them up is that they don't get scientific platforms.
		They don't get that boost that they might need from the government to finance a particular test.
		And they don't because of regulation.
		And we often see suppression through regulation.
		But many times they don't get through art because they simply just don't have it.
		They've got something that might be efficient.
		As an example, at a conference that was held last year, we had a fellow from New Zealand that was bragging how his thing was producing thousands of times over Unity, but yet, and if it ran without being under load, it was running over Unity, but once you put a load onto it, you found it had an efficiency of about 23%, which is pretty good for an electric motor, but it's not anything near the claim.
		Well, one of the things that the Tesla Society does is we try to investigate it and see who has got it.
		But I have personally come across one technology.
		It's known as Supersteam Technology.
		And I presented it to our local power company.
		And the lead engineer said, well, gee whiz, that sounds great.
		Why don't we plan on doing a 10-megawatt system which would take care of approximately a block of 10,000 homes?
		And after sizing up equipment and getting, you know, everything that you needed, the process was just underway when we got a letter from the chairman of the utility department that canceled the order.
		Why?
		Well, it said that before anything is done, it should go through the Edison Foundation.
		Well, with the competition between Tesla and Edison, that's the last place I'd want to run it through.
		And why would I...
		Well, again, if you're going to be Tesla and you give it over to General Electric for them to apprise, for them to make the decision, in spite of the fact that you have a certification from the American Society of Mechanical Engineers, which, you know, vouched for its reliability and so on and so forth, why would we need to go through General Electric?
		It wasn't called for, but it is just one of the methods that are used from time to time.
		There are different stories, but they basically get down to putting the person on a treadmill that they can't get off and they can't ever win.
		Instead of saying, okay, here's the facility, put your machinery in here, go to work, that is what they needed.
		And of course, they wanted to see a prototype model.
		And of course, those were constructed and tested, which proved, you know, the reliability and function of the device.
		But why, why, why is one of the things that has me continually in a quandary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here's a fact from somebody.
		Hi, Art.
		To help people understand your guest, please ask him to list Tesla's inventions that are now essential everyday components of modern life.
		These include almost every basic element of AC and multi-phase electronics, as well as radio and fluorescent lighting.
		What actually is Tesla responsible for?
		Can you give us a short list?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, Tesla is responsible for radio.
		Tesla is responsible for the Tesla coil, a coil that has so permeated society that no car, no bus, no train, or plane would operate without it, no space shuttle, no radio, no television, no computer, so on and so forth.
		That's just one item.
		But he also had other items that got into neon lighting, got into x-ray, got into devices that were used for therapy on sore muscles and other injuries that the body might have maintained.
		His inventions just go on and on.
		The power delivery system that we use worldwide is TESPAS.
		It's the AC power transmission system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You said he was responsible for radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where does Marconi fit in here?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Marconi got disallowed.
		Marconi, on three different occasions, applied for priority in radio and was turned down by patent examiners.
		And again, Marconi had special influence.
		His influence was Thomas Edison.
		Art, the law at the time, was when you get rejected by the patent office, you've got, I believe it's 90 days to resubmit for priority.
		In the case of Marconi, it was one year.
		And then because of a letter that was endorsed by Edison, which gave him a special privilege.
		So he endorsed Marconi's attempt.
		Marconi was turned down the second time, then waited for three years, and again, through influence, was allowed to submit his patent application again, and again it was turned down.
		But they found a way to cheat Tesla out of his residuals, out of those royalties that he deserved in radio.
		The only people that were paying him were the German radio stations that employed his technology.
		RCA and Sarnoff and Edison and Marconi and the rest of them were intent on depriving Tesla of any royalties, and they did it because the U.S. Supreme Court finally ruled in July of 1943 that it is Tesla who had priority in radio, not Marconi.
		But by that time, Tesla was dead for six years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Too late.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		It's typical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's another one.
		Hi, our great show, as always.
		Would you ask your guest the following questions?
		I had heard that Tesla had invented two other machines, one which could treat diseases like cancer, and one that could perform long-distance mind control, and that this machine was used by our government during the Waco seizure.
		Now, you know, that's exactly the kind of thing that I would probably say, were it not for you, Mr. McGinnis.
		What a myth.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the idea that they were employing it specifically at Waco, I would disagree with it, but I know that our government is doing things on an electronic basis that could fall into the realm of mind control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the question, though, is, did Tesla develop mind control?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think he had all it, and we know that there are certain frequencies that we can excite and we can cause behavioral differences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Irritation, yes, low frequencies.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have low frequencies, but there's high frequencies, too.
		And there are bands that the FCC has ruled out of bounds.
		You can't get a license for them.
		I don't want to say what bands they are because it could contribute to somebody playing where they shouldn't.
		But in any chorus, obviously...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Come on, tell us what bands they are.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's not secret information, is it?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's the information that isn't normally given out, and it's withheld.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		I got the information from a fellow that worked with the CIA and told me what these bands were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell us.
		Well, I really don't care.
		I just don't know.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		I don't have them written down before me, but what I could do is fax them to you, and I'll do that tomorrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Will you, please?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd just soon have them made public.
		I mean, if it's true, then maybe somebody will experiment.
		Maybe somebody will determine if it's true or not.
		I'd just soon get it on the air.
		Anyway, fine.
		Fax them to me.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll do that for you, Art.
		And I want to be exact on them.
		Otherwise, I would just guess and say they're in the plus 300 megahertz range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have plenty going on in the plus 300 megahertz range.
		The government operates in that range.
		Amateur radio operators in 400 megahertz.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but there is a narrow band that falls between the 300 and 400.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, is that so?
		You may be exactly right.
		Government frequencies, I believe, end just short of that, and there is a rather empty band in there.
		You're right.
		Yeah.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'll look forward to that, and I'll give you those frequencies, because I guess you're right.
		People ought to know about them.
		But this is something that we have a number of satellites, for instance, that they're constantly bombarding everything beneath them with a radio signal.
		And some of it can be harmful and can be persuasive.
		It can change your behavioral pattern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now there is a great controversy, Mr. McGinnis, in America now about just the regular carriers of electricity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And people are suggesting that it may cause cancer.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about electromagnetic fields.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And I have found some physicians that disagree with that, but I would invite any physician that would like to learn about it to come into our laboratory here in Colorado Springs.
		And just with the simplest of tools, I can show them what is occurring with these low-frequency electromagnetic fields.
		Because they do get into our body, they penetrate our body, they oscillate our molecules, they develop this false heat in our body.
		Our body switches on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're literally being cooked at low level.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're being cooked, and at the same time, we're strangling ourselves.
		We're flooding our systems with platelets and antigens and so forth, trying to fight a ghost that doesn't exist, or a disease that doesn't exist.
		It's only a magnetic field, if you know what I mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, it would make some sense to me that if electrical fields can cause cancer, maybe there is some manipulation of them that might cure it as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did he do any work in those?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he developed resonant frequencies, and what we find is that we can take a variety of different cancers, and they do have a resonant frequency, and how you deal with them is you deal with them with a mortellic frequency.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		You put it the same frequency, you elevate it, you overpower it, and what happens is the cell itself is destroyed, leaving intact the sublerbious tissue that connects with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're suggesting you can find the frequency, for example, of a tumor cellular material, and radiate that frequency and destroy the tumor while not destroying adjacent healthy tissue.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what I'm saying.
		There's an outfit in Florida that's working on it right now.
		They're called Giraldo International, and I believe they're on the stock market.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's fascinating.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's fascinating.
		Unfortunately, they couldn't carry out their tests in this country.
		We're turning them over in Belgium at the request of the king over there, or the queen, whatever it is.
		But they want to get this technology, and we stifle it so many times.
		You know, when people are in these dilemmas where they don't have a choice, I mean, tomorrow may not come, so why don't you let them try it?
		We find people that are withholding technology under the premise that it could have long-term degenerative effect.
		Well, if you're not alive, you're not going to worry about that long-term thing.
		And often what we're demonstrating is that these people that are on the alternative rim, these people that have been told they're a cuckoo, that they just might have something and that even the most critical disease can be dealt with with an alternative approach that goes into our diet, into our supplements, and into the electricity around us.
		And I myself am an advocate of a resonant frequency that would destroy the cancer cell.
		And there are people out there doing it.
		And it is something that will be released.
		I don't know how much longer they can hold the technology back.
		Just one of a number of them that are available to us.
		And, you know, I think the cure or control of cancer is about as important as anything.
		Cancer has torn apart more homes than anything that you can think of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It surely is true.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And it's cost us as taxpayers enormously because they're not all insured.
		And often these people, they run out of insurance, and then we as taxpayers pick it up.
		You know, in charity cases, we have no choice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, present radiation and chemotherapy that is used to fight cancer is a real blunderbuss technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does indeed do a job against cancerous cells, but frequently it does a job, of course, against the healthy cells as well.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		So about the immune system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So anything that would focus specifically on a particular cellular material would be incredibly helpful.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, I agree with you there, and I feel that they continually repeat the failure.
		They continue to go along with this chemotherapy, and then they're using these high doses of radiation that are going to leave the prospective patient worse than they were when they went in.
		I would just as soon die a pleasant death.
		I'll just take my time and see how long they'll last.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		Given a choice of that technology or nothing at all, I might opt for that technology.
		Here's the energy of another one.
		Please ask your guests.
		If Tesla dealt with what today is being called subtle energy, that is, energies that exist within space and time, but not limited by space and time.
		Now, I'm not sure I know what that means.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, you're talking about somebody that when they're talking about subtle, they're almost talking what we would call spiritual.
		The ability to inflict your will at great distances with no power at all, just your wish to have something done, and it's done.
		This is something that is innate in human beings, all human beings.
		And it's the very wise human being that finally learns how to capture this ability and to use it profitably or positively.
		But it is a force that is just as important as an atomic bomb.
		Subtle it may be, but nonetheless, it grows into a hurricane just as much as the butterfly flapping its wing and then just through propagation, it causes a hurricane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Control your suggesting of another's mind at a great distance?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes, even that.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		The first thing that I think we have to take into account is just how complex our minds are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Also, so let me understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were actually talking about controlling some material object at a great distance, an actual physical control, Mr. McGinnis?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		It goes into all fields, not only, you know, physical beings and controlling that, but also controlling thoughts.
		And they talk about these what we would, I guess you would call them phase conjugate beams.
		We could talk about scalar waves, that the waves in themselves are harmless until they get to where they cross.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is a, first of all, what is a scalar wave?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard a lot of people refer to scalar waves.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		What are they?
		It's one of these real hard things to define because for years and years people were even saying they didn't exist and you're talking to somebody who felt that way.
		This is a wave that is so subtle, you don't see it, but you cannot hide from it.
		It'll go through any metal, it'll go through anything.
		And it'll arrive at any predisposed place that you want to send it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the form of energy, Mr. McGuinness?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me tell you my experience that changed my mind because I harped on this and I said, hey, this is, you know, I feel people are just getting a little carried away.
		In fact, it was very critical of Tom Bearden who first wrote about it.
		But I was in Tucson, Arizona.
		I was at a welder auditorium there.
		And I was giving a lecture, and then following the lecture, I had this fellow that just, you know, he just kept asking me and asking me to sit down and listen to him, listen to him.
		And I was almost annoyed with him.
		And he said, well, damn it.
		He said, what do I have to do to get your attention?
		And I asked him if he was a member, and he became a member immediately.
		And then he showed me this device art.
		It was about the size of a cigar box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it.
		This is a good hook.
		We're going to hold you right there.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		This object was the size of a cigar box, he said.
		Ah, but what was in the box?
		This is how we hold you through the brakes.
		And here comes one right now.
		You're listening to Dreamland.
unidentified		This is CBC.
		This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
		Please do not call.
		From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Dreamland with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		Good morning, everybody.
		My guest is J.W. McGinnis.
		He is president of the International Tesla Society.
unidentified		Folllows the work of Nikola Tesla.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And beyond, I might add.
		We'll learn more about that.
		The story of what's in the box, though, is coming up in just a moment, as well as much more.
		We will begin taking calls so when the Sit up and pay attention.
		Before they string me up, Mr. McGinnis, what was in that box?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, the box had two items in it.
		One of them was a little holder for a 9-volt battery.
		You've seen those before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And then he also had a small little wand device that had a caduceus coil on it.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		To help you with that, if you can think of that emblem for medicine, they crisscross each other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, this is a caduceus coil.
		This was in there.
		And then in one half of this box was an area that was squared off.
		And right in the middle of it was a small amobius strip.
		This is a stranded wire.
		One circle of it was right there in it.
		And it had next to it a couple of switches, you know, for there were three settings as well as one switch that seemed to act as some sort of an attenuator.
		So the fellow asked me, he says, well, I'll tell you what you do.
		He said, it doesn't work for everybody.
		He said, but for most people, it'll work.
		If you put your finger into the central part of where that amobius strip is, and then carefully, carefully, very slowly, start to attenuate it with that one knob, you will get a sensation.
		Well, I did that, and I turned it, and suddenly I got this feeling, went through my body, like if you've ever had your crazy bone struck, well, this was the whole body from top to bottom was just resonating like you couldn't believe.
		And I jerked my finger out immediately.
		I couldn't believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And then these sensations, they declined very slowly.
		But, you know, after about 15 minutes, my lips were still numb.
		They were still denser.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's weird.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you had a few choice words for this hall.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I did next is, you know, because I was curious, I said, well, how far can this operate from?
		And he says, well, once it's attenuated to your circuit, there really isn't any distance.
		So I'm at this auditorium and it must be a whole block way down at the end of this hallway is a big ice machine, a pesky machine and a Coca-Cola machine.
		And so I told him what I was going to do is I was going to go all the way down there and this caduchias coil, this was meant to be used as a so that you could give it direction.
		So it would only go exactly where this here would point it.
		And so he plugged that in and I went way down to the other end of the hallway and I got behind these three machines and I felt this thing go right across my body, just you know, starting from one shoulder as it went over to the other, I could just feel the whole thing and I got weak all over.
		It scared the life out of me because I started to think that if the government had something like this here, and I do believe they do have this type of equipment, there's virtually nothing a human can do to resist anything that somebody would want to put you through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well now wait a minute.
		What happened to this guy?
		Where is he?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well this is what happened to him.
		I was impressed and as I said before, you know, I travel around the country and I get to these different areas and always somebody out of nowhere.
		Well this guy shows up and I knew I had to see him again and I had his address and so forth.
		So I arranged for another fellow to go down and visit him and try and get this technology.
		And this fellow went down there and this guy lived about 70 miles out in the desert from Tucson, Arizona.
		I mean he was way out there in the middle of nowhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And when my associate arrived there he he spent a whole day with him trying to get him to repeat this or to explain this phenomenon and this guy was very tight-lipped about it.
		And then after that the guy goes back for the second day and by that time you know he was really interested to know what was going on.
		And it was at that point that this fellow admitted that he himself didn't make this device.
		That this party that lived about five miles away from him, another isolated group, had made this device.
		So he goes over to the other place and they were very reluctant to give any information out about it.
		And they have remained mum about it.
		They did not want to share it with anybody.
		But I can tell you this much, it worked.
		And anytime from now on that somebody asked me about a SCADAR wave, I, from personal experience, can tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, he represented that with Scalar Wave?
		Yes.
		Wow.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And this thing was just totally overpowering.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And keep in mind now that this thing was, the power basis for this was just a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nine-volt battery, I've got you.
		All right, look, we've got to get to the phones.
		Let me quickly give out the phone numbers and away we go.
		If you have a question for Mr. McGinnis, J.W. McGinnis, president of the International Tesla Society, come now.
		First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
		I wonder if we could go down there and find those people.
		The wildcard line is Area Code 702-727-1295.
		Toll-free, west of the Rockies, it's 1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies, it's 1-800-825-5033.
		Again, east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033.
		Once again, Mr. McGinnis.
		Mr. McGinnis, are you ready?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go.
		East of the Rockies, good evening.
		You're on Dreamland with Mr. J.W. McGinnis.
		Hello?
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Hi, how you doing?
unidentified		I'm listening to your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ohio, all right.
unidentified		I had a friend who made me a Mokoski M-W-O oscillator.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I had severe allergies all my life.
		I've been to the doctorologist and hundreds and hundreds of dollars in shots in that, but nothing cured it.
		But this machine, I used it on frequencies, and my allergies are completely cured.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How was it applied?
unidentified		I had two antennas, circular antennas, and I just sit between the antennas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's remarkable.
		Have you ever heard of anything like that?
		Or is that Tesla technology, Mr. Speaker?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is basically Tesla technology, but it was brought forth by George Lahovsky, a great Russian scientist.
		I'm trying to think of some period, but it was early 1900s or late 1800s when it was first introduced.
		But that device itself, I use it myself.
		I have one that I suspend over my bed.
		It's not charged with any exterior electricity at all.
		I'm just using the magnetic field coming off of the Earth itself.
		I use it rarely, but when those times arrive when I'm really low on energy and I just can't seem to go or anything else like that, I'll hang that over my head and I'll be up, you know, two hours earlier than when I...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen these kinds of things.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is a device that they certainly wouldn't raid because it isn't powered with anything, number one, but number two.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not even a nine-volt battery, huh?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		No, it has no power at all.
		So, you know, you can look at it as something, as an aesthetic piece.
		I didn't have much faith in it at first when it was given to me.
		And then I finally decided to use it.
		And the thing that I noticed about it was, you know, a big increase in energy.
		But I did notice that after I had been using it for like a week or so, that I was over-energetic, you know, and I was just at a, you know, hyperactive.
		So I only use it now when I'm really drug out and, you know, ready to be put to bed.
		Then I'll put that thing over my bed and I will get rejuvenated extremely fast with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's remarkable.
		Let's keep moving here.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with J.W. McGinnis.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Hi, Jay.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, sir?
unidentified		I'm calling from San Jose, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And listening to you through 1120 in Oregon.
unidentified		I forget the call letters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		KPMW.
unidentified		Okay.
		Two questions.
		Number one, I've read in the Tesla's biography, A Man Out of Time by Margaret Cheney.
		Are you familiar with that, Jay?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
unidentified		Great book, and I've read it a couple of times.
unidentified		In that book, it says that Tesla believed he had contacted people from not on this earth, so to speak.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		No, he felt he had contacted or had contact with people from Mars.
		And it's a very interesting story about Mars because Tesla was sure that he had received some signal from Mars.
		And of late there seems to be an extraordinary amount of information about Mars.
		But in researching the whole topic and going back to when Tesla was first talking about making communication with intelligent life on a different planet, there was this French astronomical society.
		These here were all of these people that focused on nothing but the heavens themselves.
		And they put up a $100,000 reward for the first person, or 100,000 franc reward, for the first person to contact somebody from another planet that had intelligence life or intelligent life.
		Now there were a series of scientists that had all picked out different planets, and no planet was picked or selected outside of Mars except by Tesla himself.
		And that planet was deliberately eliminated from the competition.
		In other words, you could make intelligent life connection with anybody in the archaeology, but if it came from Mars, you wouldn't get the money, no way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, how could they accept Mars?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know how they did it, but they did it.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And in reading some of the old literature that I have had here, that was one of the things that struck me as kind of, well, here's an organization that, for one reason or another, doesn't want to give Tesla one chance in heck to collect on the $100,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard Hoagland has done a lot of research with regard to the monuments.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, the monuments on Mars, the face on Mars.
		As a matter of fact, I have a fairly good connection with those people at the Goddard Spaceflight Center and some of the other places.
		And there seems to be a lot of artifact up there that would lead one to believe that, yes, indeed, at one time or another, there was intelligent life on that planet.
		And possibly, just maybe possibly, and I could get into that scenario later, perhaps those people that were there are actually us that are here.
		And I'll let you think about that one for a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any information as well on the moon?
		There's really something interesting going on right now.
		After the U.S. went to the moon, and we have studied it to death.
		And, you know, the general feeling was it's nothing but a big rock and not even a special rock at that.
		For a decade, we've been more or less disinterested in the moon.
		And now all of a sudden, we're sending probes to the moon.
		There's just a new moon probe announced.
		We're sending up space shuttles that are focusing telescopes on the moon.
		What the hell's going on on the moon?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's quite a few things that are going on there, Art, but from several different angles.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		First off, some of the early photography that was released from the different vehicles that circumvented or went around the moon and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		There are some items that have shown up on the photography that they cannot explain.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And in one of the earlier books in Art, I've forgotten the name of it right offhand, but it had something to do with anomalies on the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		but this thing was published before that i had a chance to cover their track but when it went back to the publisher for to be reprinted uh...
		those that have caused this controversy are no longer available to that book but i will Well, one of them looked like a tracked vehicle had gone up and through this one crater that was there.
		There were other figures there that could have been, and I say could have been, areas where people had shelter, quonset huts or some other type of building.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Buildings, indeed.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		People had somehow found a way to get into the soil and had constructed some buildings where they evidently were safe from the environment outside.
		But this was picked up with some of this early photography, and now it isn't available anymore.
		But I think I read one of the original books.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, you're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard Hoagland has had much the very same thing to say, that a number of the photographs that were available now are not available.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		That's only one side of the coin, but the other side of the coin deals with energy.
		You see, the moon itself is actually, you know, if we were going to have free energy tomorrow, we could have it easy enough.
		We've been to the moon before.
		We can return there again.
		The job isn't that big.
		But what we need to do is to harvest this helium-3 that is constantly being embedded into the soil of the planet.
		What we need to do is to, first of all, situate a couple of ovens there that can cook out that helium-3.
		Once it's cooked out and in a gaseous form, if it's put onto a vehicle, just a vehicle the size of the space shuttle as an example, if we just brought that back, that cargo bay full of helium-3, this would give us all we would need for safe, fusionable energy for one year for this whole country.
		Because using this helium-3 is a big sidestep that we don't have to take if we have to rely on the technology that we have here earthbound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We've got a lot of people wanting to get in.
		I've got to pay attention to them.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with J.W. McGinnis.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
		Good evening, Mr. McGinnis.
		This is from Mountain Home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From Mountain Home, Idaho?
unidentified		You bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		It's been a while.
		Mr. McGinnis, in the area of energy and production of energy by the Earth, I was wondering if you've been following any of the research that's being done that they talked about when I was living in Alaska, apparently two years ago, Senator Stevens got a large appropriation for about $25 million to buy a Cray supercomputer for the University of Fairbanks.
		And they were studying, there's an Asian professor up there by the name of Dr. Noguchi or something like that that's been studying the possibility of extracting energy from the Aurora Borealis.
		Have you been following that at all?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have been in that particular subject.
		It covers a lot of area, it goes right into heart.
		But basically, what they're talking about here, when you're seeing those northern lights, this is all cosmic energy that is coming into the Earth.
		You see what happens when the Sun is radiating all of this energy, much of it is being obfuscated by the magnetic field of the Earth itself.
		But when we get to those areas where the poles are, that's where this cosmic energy can then enter into, which it does, and then it is swept up.
		Now, what these are are electrons with no nucleus.
		So they're very free-flowing.
		And when you look at those, at any rate, what you're looking at is tremendous amounts of energy that are just lying there and could be harvested.
		I don't think we have to take those dramatic steps to do it.
		I think there's enough energy that can be extracted from the Earth, and the man who told us how to do it was Nikola Tesla, and this is part of the information that is still being withheld from us on Nikola Tesla and how he had devised this plan so that anybody, no matter where you were at, could draw out as much electricity as what you would need right from the planet itself.
unidentified		What type of HARP?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're talking about HAARP, but not to get into that specifically.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		I'd rather reserve that for just HAARP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, but briefly, we have quite a bit of information about Project HARP, Mr. McGinnis, and we've been sort of following it.
		We received information that it is a kind of a two-part project.
		Part one would attempt to affect the ionosphere by discharging large amounts of RF energy into the ionosphere.
		And part two was an attempt to map the inside of the Earth.
		Now, is that your understanding?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's only part of it.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Some of it was in controlling the communication ability and then filtering out just exactly who we want to give communication access to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, saturating in some way the ionosphere.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, exactly what happens is there's a number of transmitters there.
		I don't know if it's three or four or five.
		But what they want to do is to attack these energized ions that have been the byproduct of some previous nuclear explosions that we've carried out in the US.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm sorry, but we're at the top of the hour.
		We're going to come back and jump right into this, believe me.
		Project HARP, and we're going to ask about that.
		Anybody fooling with our ionosphere and our ability to communicate, we need to talk about that a little bit.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		This is CBC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		J.W. McGinnis, Mr. McGinnis, tell us more about what you know about HAARP.
		It's in Alaska, and they've got some large transmitters, and they're trying to see if they can stop communications on many frequencies and let those who they wish to communicate.
		Is that correct?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not quite that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somehow you're not very strong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's not another.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know what has happened here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's better.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		I'm not quite weak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's better.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like there was another phone off the hook or something.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it seemed that way to me.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		I was barely hearing you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		We're okay now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, actually, if we're talking about it, it isn't that they can filter out so much as to this is going to destroy all communication, but then they will use a spread spectrum type of communication to replace it.
		All of this information I'm giving you is I'm not the expert on it, Art.
		However, we at the Society, through our magazine Extraordinary Science, are publishing a very lengthy article about it in this next issue of Extraordinary Science, which we will be publishing later this month.
		It should be out first part of April.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I guess we better tell everybody how do they get in touch with you?
		How do they get Extraordinary Science?
		How do they become part of the Tesla Society?
		How do they do that?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Art, for the convenience of the audience, we have an 800 number that I'll give out here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		It's 800-397-0137.
		And we have two different ways of communicating with those that are interested.
		One is to enroll somebody as a member, have your credit card handy, or to apply for our information packet, which includes our resource guide.
		This is over a half a pound of literature that will get into about every book that you can imagine that covers science, as well as it'll give you the information that you'll be looking for if you're in the middle of a project.
		We've got the books that will do it, and they're all listed in that.
		It's only $5.
		With that, we're sending out a coupon that will replace that $5, but with the cost of postage these days and the jump in our printing cost, we had to put some figure on it.
		So it's $5, but we're going to give it back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so it's 1-800-397-0137.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		0137, correct.
		Hotel, just call.
		Be patient with us.
		We expect a lot of people to be contacting us.
		We'll get back to them as soon as possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, is that during business hours or 24 hours?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's 24 hours.
		We do have an answering system that will pick up all the calls, but it'll only hold about 50.
		So if you don't get information back right away, just keep on trying.
		We'll get a hold of you.
		We don't let anybody slip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		So that's one aspect of HARP.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		so the thing about HARP that I wanted to point out is that it's a stepchild of some of the work that Tesla was doing back in 1899 up to 1908 when it's speculated that Tesla may have caused that big explosion there, the Tungusta explosion in 1908.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		That's the one where they didn't know if it was a meteor came down and destroyed 200 square miles of forest and tundra.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that not the generally accepted explanation?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is, except they've never found the meteor.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		They've never found the crater.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		True.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		They don't know what has caused it all.
		But the thinking is right now that it may have been Tesla and the work that he was doing on his magnifying transmitter that was causing the problem.
		But it did give the basis for what the government is now trying to do.
		Tesla had stepped away from it, but before this HAARP project came up, we had Project Argus and Project Starfish.
		And they preceded this whole thing.
		In 1959, the Navy exploded three atomic bombs.
		They're the one-kiloton fission type.
		This was at about 480 kilometers above the South Atlantic in the Van Allen belt, closest to the Earth's surface.
		In addition, they exploded two more hydrogen bombs.
		These are the fusion devices 160 kilometers above Johnson Island in the Pacific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What were they trying to do?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, the program was billed as the biggest scientific experiment that had ever been undertaken, and it was set up by the Defense Department and the Atomic Energy Department.
		Its purpose was apparently twofold.
		It was to assess the impact of high-altitude nuclear explosions on radio traffic and radar operation, electromagnetic pulses, EMP they call it, and to increase the understanding of the geometric field and the behavior of charged particles therein.
		The explosions created new inner radiation belts encompassing almost the entire globe and injected sufficient electrons and other energetic particles into the ionosphere that the effects are registered worldwide.
		They thought this here would be in a small contained area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're saying that these particles are the particles that Project HARP is trying to manipulate?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, kidding.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		They will be exciting it.
		Following that Project Argus, we had Project Starfish.
		That happened in 1962.
		Again, these experiments, and these are American scientists, these people should be concerned about what is going on out there.
		The Van Allen belt, we're not really sure of everything that it is doing and how it is benefiting us.
		But to be just unleashing these tremendous bolts of energy in those areas leads you to believe that somebody in the Defense Department or the Energy Department or the government itself is intent at somehow making some grand play where they will somehow be in charge of the communication systems and other systems worldwide that are very reliant.
		We're talking about energy systems that can be shut down through the magnification of this project.
		It's a very, very complicated project.
		It shouldn't be dealt on without having ample time to get into all of the specifics.
		But I am going to tell you that at our conference that will be held in July, we will have a staff of experts here that will be making a presentation about HARP, as well as we are on the forefront of publishing anything about it in our Extraordinary Science magazine, which I said will be out later this month.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that magazine come to you when you become a member of the Tesla Society, or can you get it without becoming a member?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		You can get it at Barnes Noble bookstores and they're at B. Dalton bookstores and Power Bookstores.
		But the best thing is to become a member, that way it doesn't cost nearly as much.
		Our magazine sells for $8.95 on the rack, and this way here you get four of them for $25 along with our newsletter, which is the hottest newsletter in science anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've certainly given me so far a better explanation of HAARP than I've had from any other source.
		A couple of questions, and we've got to get back to the phones.
		Hi, Art.
		Ask your guest about the man-made earthquake that took place on Long Island, New York.
		Does that have something to do with it?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't Long Island.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		It was Manhattan Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Manhattan Island?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and this was Nikola Tesla, and this was Tesla's oscillator.
		Art, this was a device that was about the size of a pack of cigarettes.
		And with it, the internal power sources were unaware of what they are because this, too, was a device that was seized by our FBI when Tesla died in January of 1943.
		But originally speaking, Tesla was going through Manhattan and had run across a group that was tearing down some buildings, and he said, you know, you guys are working too hard.
		What you really ought to do is have a device like this.
		And he took this thing that was the size of a cigarette box and applied it to a building.
		And immediately the whole island started to shake.
		I mean, it was shaking and quaking all over the place.
		And then Tesla removed it from the building.
		When it was reported in the New York Times, they had a headline, and it just said, you know, earthquake, Manhattan Island.
		And then at the bottom of the story, they said, no, it was no earthquake.
		It was just Nikola Tesla again experimenting with some of his new devices.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that really sounds like myth.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		It almost does, except the articles don't lie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, says who.
		Look, I've dealt with reporters, Mr. McGinnis, for a long time, and I suspect in your position you have too.
		And I've done lots of interviews that later lied.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, that's true.
		But the way the story was done and the witnesses and so forth that were carried out in the story, it didn't seem like any flim flam, and I don't think most people that get an opportunity to read that would arrive at that conclusion.
		But again, Art, it's a piece of technology that we the people should enjoy.
		It's a Piece of the technology that Tesla never really put to paper where somebody could discover how he was doing it.
		But at the given rate of these oscillations in this package, it was supposed to exceed the speed of light.
		And in that case, now we're talking of something that is oscillating somewhere in the area of a trillion cycles per second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me give you a theory.
		Just based on everything you've told me about Tesla, so much of his invention seems to be technology that either we cannot reproduce today or has been snatched away from the government or is otherwise cannot be demonstrated today.
		It's almost as though Mr. Tesla was communicating with somebody or something from somewhere else.
		And what about that?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, we're in our day-to-day lives can have a monstrous effect upon us.
		And a demonstration of this here is in resonance and power.
		Anytime that we develop a specific resonance and we can allow that resonance to propagate, it gets stronger and stronger, it can become an immense force both for energy and transportation and destruction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying we may be doing these things not knowing what we're exactly doing?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right, that makes sense.
		We've got to get back to the lines here.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with J.W. McGinnis.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		Thanks for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for making it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		St. Louis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		St. Louis, okay.
unidentified		When he was saying before about they had a contest a long time ago to see who could be the first one to contact a planet, but they ruled out Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You know why they did that?
		It's because they thought Mars would be too easy.
		Remember, that was when they were doing the things with, oh, what's his name, with the telescope, and he was drawing the canals.
		They all thought there was life on Mars, so let's see if we can find it anywhere else and like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
unidentified		That sounds about right, though, doesn't it?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, it does sound about right.
		I don't exactly agree that Mars was the easiest one to contact.
		My goodness, at that particular time, the planet that people were really focused on was Venus, which was the morning and evening star and still is at certain times of the year.
		But Venus was getting far more attention than what Mars was at the given time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Venus is easy.
		I got a guy down the street here who says he's from Venus.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with J.W. McGinnis.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes.
		Good morning, Art, or evening.
		Yes, I have a question to ask, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
		My name's Ed.
		Yes, Ed.
		And also, I'm an engineer.
		I'm in the technical.
		I never could understand why there was so much animosity between Edison and Tesla.
		There was just so much hatred and dislike.
		Well, and I could never understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which apparently is still going on today in some ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why all the animosity?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me tell you, when Tesla came to this country, it was his biggest ambition to go to work for Thomas Edison.
		He had a letter of introduction from Edison's manager in Paris, where he had already worked on Edison's dynamos and made them much more efficient.
		He comes to this country.
		Edison had kept him waiting for a week, and that's no, I don't have any bone to pick about that.
		But then when he finally did meet Tesla, he read the letter from his manager, which said, I'm paraphrasing, dear Mr. Edison, this is Nikola Tesla, a man like you, that can change the destiny of man.
		And when Edison is looking at Tesla, here's a guy just 30 years old, and already he had already, you know, encompassed the world with his ingenuity, a lot of it unjustly, by the way.
		But at any course, he reads this letter and cannot believe that his own manager was saying this guy could change the destiny of man.
		And so he looked at Tesla and said, if I was to hire you, just what would you do for me?
		And Tesla said, the first thing I would do is to make your DC dynamos much more efficient, your DC generators much more efficient.
		When he said that to Edison, he was actually slapping him in the face because the thing in engineering as well as all other parts of life is its concept.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's true.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And what was happening with Edison, he had seen his DC generators, and when these were in operation, they were throwing sparks all over the place.
		When Edison was looking at it, he was going, look at the enormous power here.
		We've got sparks flying all over.
		But as Tesla looked at it, he saw it as wasting all of this energy and spark, and the spark should be converted to energy.
		So we knew that where Edison had his Achilles heel, it was in that DC generator.
		He went about to work on it.
		After about two years, he had it finished.
		He had finished actually 26 different models of Edison's generators, put them on the table, and Edison had thanked him for doing this revision on them and making them much more saleable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the bottom line answer, for the sake of brevity, is professional jealousy.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		No, it wasn't that.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		What happened was, and I forgot, I neglected to tell you this, is Edison was so sure of his dynamos that he had told Tesla, he said, if you can make these more efficient, I'll give you $50,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, money.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, then Tesla said, I appreciate you thanking me for improving the dynamos here, but...
		Where's the 50?
		And Edison looked at him and said, you know, the problem with you, Tesla, is you foreigners don't understand American humor.
unidentified		I was only kidding $50,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only kidding, huh?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And Tesla quit him immediately and went to work for the New York subway system.
		But what I want to do is to bring up a little context here.
		I have talked to the man that does the promotions for the Edison Foundation, a fellow by the name of Charles Hummel.
		And I had talked to him about this issue.
		And he said, you know, J.W., you're out of context when you think there's a lot of hate between these two men.
		He said, you told me about the concept about the motor.
		I'm telling you about the concept of hate.
		He said, it doesn't exist.
		and then produced a letter for me between Edison and Tesla.
		It was an invitation for Tesla to go to Edison's daughter's wedding, and it was a very warm and sincere type of letter, which leads me to believe that perhaps they were the strongest of rivals at Edison.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps so.
		JW, we've got a break here at the bottom of the hour.
		Did Tesla have anything to do with weather changes?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what HAARP is destined to do, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's a good hook.
		Stay right there.
		All the rest of you, stay right there, and we'll be right back.
		Find out about the weather.
unidentified		This is CBC.
		This hour of Art Bell was recorded for rebroadcast at this time.
		Please do not call.
		From the Kingdom of Nive, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
		Call Art Now toll-free at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-TALK.
		First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222, 702-727-1222.
		Or the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295.
		727-1295 in the 702 area code.
		Now again, here's our bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm only going to give this one time, so you better listen very carefully to get a copy of this program.
		And by the number of faxes and calls coming in, I can imagine you're going to want one.
		To get a copy of this program, please call 1-800-917-4278.
		Once again, 1-800-917-4278.
		All right, now back to Mr. J.W. McGinnis.
		Mr. McGinnis, everybody bitches about the weather, and so far that we know of, with the exception of dropping, what is it, iodized pellets or something, that nobody's been able to do anything about the weather.
		Did Nicola Tesla have something going?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		The answer to the question is you can control weather art, and you can do it with these huge magnetic fields.
		I mean, everything on this globe, every grain of sand, everything is magnetic.
		Everything is going to conscribe to the laws of magnetism, laws which are still being discovered today.
		But what I want to point out is the pain and folly that we often have when we have these unbridled scientists that are given large research grants.
		They go about into areas that angels fear to tread.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like HAARP?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes, like HAARP.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		As early as 1962, I want you to know at that time the leading astronomers on this planet were protesting strongly against the irresponsibility of these experiments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Should we be trying to get Project HARP stopped?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it's time that everybody should contact their local representatives.
		I know I have.
		I know many of our members have.
		And as we travel around the country and we lecture on this, Steve Elswick, who is a true expert in this area, is focusing on it.
		And we have to do something about this rampant government frenzy that they'll step into these areas where they should not because the dangers of this whole thing, I mean, this is word from the leading American scientists of the day.
		And what they said is that it will take many hundreds of years to understand the Van Allen radiation belts and before they'll even restabilize at their normal levels.
		Because already, as many as atomic bombs as what we've thrown up there, the Soviets have done the same.
		You know, that's the way it works.
		We blow off one, they're going to blow off one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And they have.
		So they've got the whole thing up there pretty cluttered or cluttered.
		And now what they want to do is to heat it up.
		And they want to heat it up with this HARP system.
		It's supposedly a government ionospheric study.
		But as benign as it may seem, it offers so much more other potential.
		What's being constructed is the world's largest ionosphere heater.
		And what we're talking about is burning 30-mile diameter holes into the atmosphere.
		And during this operation, the electromagnetic interference is so intense that pilots know they've already been warned to learn how to deal with these periods of time when their instrumentation will be disrupted.
		Furthermore, the emissions are so strong that the facility itself has to be in a very remote area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. McGinnis, do you know what frequency ranges will be disrupted?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		I know that our researcher has that art.
		I wish I had that information in front of me.
		I know it's going to be in our article, and I haven't had a chance to read the article myself yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder about the shortwave spectrum.
unidentified		I'm sure it's going to be included.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We're going to have to do another show and get into this.
		Sounds like you could do a whole show on that.
		Here's a fact.
		Kind of interesting, and I want to know what you think of it.
		High art, some time ago, around 1985, myself and my brother found something in a small storage room in the mountains.
		This, by the way, comes from Montana.
		The room, we thought at the time, looked just like a radio or maybe a TV relay station.
		But as we approached the area, we could hear a kind of high-pitched frequency, for lack of a better word.
		We kicked the door open, that's called trespassing, by the way, and got inside.
		We found several little probes that were attached to a dish pointing east, I believe.
		Being the curious types, we touched several things in this room and experienced a feeling much like what your guest described, and my lips and soft palate in my mouth were numb for about two hours.
		Length of time we took to ride back home.
		About a week after this, several of our neighbors said they received visits from men in dark blue cars asking about the property that this station is located on.
		Things like who has access to the area and who the other people in the area are.
		It was weird, and I've never thought about it till now.
		Thanks, and he's a ham radio operator, as am I, in Billings, Montana.
		What do you think they found?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, they could have easily have found some sort of transmitting device that may have been working.
		The idea that intrigues me is that it did have a probe on it, did have some directional quality to it.
		And then when they say they have intercepted that wave, they're experiencing what I've experienced.
		It could be some early work in that field, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then, you know, very interesting, you've got guys in blue suits, they don't move for small reasons, you know.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		No, and they do show up at the most inopportune times.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		I've had literally hundreds of stories of people that have had these so-called calls where they've been so-called warned not to, you know, elucidate on what they're doing or they've been told to get out of the business if they're in something like medicine or energy or something that might do us all some good, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We've got to move quick.
		We don't have a lot of time.
		Here's another one.
		Did Tesla have any involvement with the Philadelphia experiment or Montauk in New York?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm going to tell you the information as I know it.
		The specific experiment that occurred in 1943, no, he didn't have any relationship to it.
		He did demonstrate his technology, what we call radar invisibility, in 1933 off of the coast of New Jersey.
		There was a shallow inlet, and in this inlet, he positioned two large coils on each side of the inlet, and then got from the Navy a small admiral's barge or a small boat.
		It was like about 65 feet long.
		Now, five miles off of the coast, they set up a radar picket ship to do a sweep to pick up the craft if they could pick it up, which they did.
		And then they energized these two large coils.
		And this was the beginning of what I feel is, excuse me, is the Philadelphia experience because they activated the coils.
		They tried to pick the ship up by radar.
		It did not show up because of the interference.
		But the strange part of it is the ship disappears and never sees daylight again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you, I've had the technology involved with the Philadelphia experiment explained to me, and a lot of it sounds like Tesla technology.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, anything that is dealing, you know, Art, when we talk about death, we're always talking about, you know, the higher realm.
		We're always going up, we're always going up.
		And the feeling that I have from some people is that perhaps, you know, what happens with us when we do move on is that we move into a much higher frequency realm, and therefore we might be sensitive to these higher frequencies, and we might be able to do things with these higher frequencies that we don't really realize we know enough about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. McGinnis, called by some another dimension?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		That would be the best way to relay it.
		And I think people can pass in and out of these.
		And I think, although I'm not in any kind of mood to let you think that I go to channelers or anything else, I do believe that these people that have these strange stories, stories that I'm reluctant to accept, they should be given a voice and they should be heard.
unidentified		They might have something there that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why we have this program, Mr. McGinnis.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with J.W. McGinnis.
		Good evening.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Art.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		This is Mark from Collinsville, Illinois.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Mark.
unidentified		KSD?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, I'm listening to you on my car radio, and I'm getting a real faint signal.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		And Mr. McGinnis is a great guest.
unidentified		Is there any chance you're on the audio satellite I could possibly pick up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Telstar 302 Transponder 15 6.2 wideband audio.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		What was the last?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		6.2.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		I'm in business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're in business.
unidentified		Thanks, buddy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		Take there.
		Sorry you didn't get it earlier.
		On the first time caller line, you're on the air with J.W. McGinnis.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi there.
		I have a question.
		This sounds kind of mundane, but this is Scott calling from Seattle, KBI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Scott.
unidentified		What's the form of that natural energy that Mr. McGinnis spoke of earlier?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Natural energy.
		Oh, you mean the positive ions?
		Is that what you're talking about?
unidentified		Well, he was speaking of some of the natural energy that Tesla was purported to have researched were by...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I asked the same exact question, and to that there is not really an answer, is there?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		When we're talking about natural energy, we're talking about the energy withheld, you know, or within the Earth itself.
		And there's plenty of energy in there, earthquakes alone, volcanoes, etc.
		But even on the exterior of this planet, you know, one of the things that we like to observe are these large energy discharges.
		We call it lightning.
		And lightning actually works with the Earth in reciprocating this power back and forth between the exterior and the interior.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		But to give you the immensity of this lightning, at one inch of spark at sea level is equivalent to about 12,500 volts.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		now in excess of a hundred thousand feet uh it's a humongous amount of power to get spark one inch but our space shuttle observed a uh I was just about to ask you about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this was energy, was it not, that was actually shooting into space?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, right.
		This magnetic field of ours, it can go both ways, but it is an enormous amount of vital energy that we have all around us.
		But I was just talking about this one charge over 100 miles long.
		If you're figuring that one inch in excess of 80,000 feet being equivalent to maybe a half a million bolts, imagine what 101 mile long strike would be equivalent to.
		And this is energy that strikes The earth, and the earth responds to it when it strikes the planet itself.
		We have an exchange of this energy.
		That's why Tesla knew that we would, I mean, there's no reason for us to have any qualms about energy, and it ought to be good, clean electricity, is what it ought to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, there's always the problem of how you convert instantly discharged large amounts of energy to usable stored energy.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's where our planet comes in, because the planet itself is one huge capacitor.
		It's holding on to all of these charges, and it's reluctantly giving up that charge.
		But if we had Tesla's technology, we could unlock those secrets.
		We could get it out with not much of a problem at all, from what I can determine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Poetically, you could suggest the planet overfloweth with energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when it does, and when it does, it discharges in ways that we've now verified with the space shuttle.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		It's one of the greatest observing pieces of equipment they ever came up with, and it's one thing where I don't mind putting my tax dollar.
		It's paid for itself, for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with J.W. McGinnis.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, number one.
		Yes.
		And number two, tell us where you're calling from.
unidentified		St. Louis, Missouri.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		St. Louis, all right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Am I talking to him now?
		Yes, you are.
		Oh, okay.
		I've been curious for quite a while.
		You were talking earlier about mind control.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I'm very suspicious of paranoid schizophrenia.
		I've had a feeling for a long time that it's experimental purpose, you know, that they're doing with people.
		I have a son who's paranoid schizophrenia, and he talks about things, and he's told me things that I've heard of before I ever heard of you speak about them on the radios.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's, in other words, people who are diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic, is it possible, Mr. McGuinness, that some of them are simply being affected by some of what we've been talking about this morning?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		They could very well be a victim of somebody who, you know, through some benign reason would do that.
		But also they could be affected by the electrical fields that they're living in on a day-to-day basis could be exasperating a poor situation.
		You know, we are electric from skim to toe, and, you know, we are going to respond to these electrical and magnetic charges.
		And I think the first place that ought to be examined is, first of all, the environment.
		Are they living in an area where there's an unusual amount of electrical activity?
		Because that could be affecting them as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That'd be an interesting.
		That's a very interesting study, as a matter of fact.
		On the wildcard line, you're on the air with J.W. McGinnis.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		This is Fritz calling from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Fritz.
unidentified		Jay, what is the association with J.P. Morgan, who was supposed to finance some of the research and done pull the carpet Tesla?
unidentified		I mean, he sort of double-crossed him.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, he didn't really double-cross him.
		What happened is this.
		J.P. Morgan had financed Tesla's Niagara Falls system, the greatest electrical power transmission system in the world.
		Later on, when Tesla wanted to bring forth the wireless transmission of electricity, now this guy was not much of a businessman.
		I've got to tell you, Tesla didn't really do it right there because he was always spending his own money instead of other people's money like most people do.
		But in the course of developing his wireless transmission system, he ran out of money.
		He asked for a loan from Morgan.
		Morgan evaluated his technology and after about a week or so had told Tesla, look, it's great.
		Something I'd be interested in, but there's one thing I don't see here.
		I don't see where you put the meters, so when people use this power, they pay for it.
		And at that point, Tesla's saying, well, you give the people the power.
		When Tesla said that, it dried up, but Tesla never took no for an answer, and he did go back in a short period thereafter, and he put a stack of technology down on JP Morgan's desk, and this technology was heating units, cooling units, electric airplanes, electric cars, all sorts of technology.
		And I told JP that he would give him one half of the royalties if he could only get another couple of hundred thousand dollars.
		JP Morgan, having everybody on hook west of Niagara Falls to Chicago and south to the tip of Florida, was very reluctant to give up that power.
		And so he turned them down.
		It was a business decision, but there is some other skull burgery that occurred.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a classic question.
		Where do we put the meter?
		What?
		No meter?
		Yeah, I understand.
		All right, we're very nearly out of time, and the phones are going wild.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with J.W. McGinnis.
		Where are you calling from, please?
unidentified		From Montana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Montana.
		All right.
		Quickly, your question.
unidentified		My question was, did Tesla do experiments on mind reading, detecting another person's thoughts?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Instead of affecting them, Mr. McGinnis.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, he did feel that we were all connected one way or another mentally.
		Worldwide, all species are connected.
		And if I don't feel good, you don't feel good.
		Or if you compose enough negative activities, it's going to have an effect on everybody.
		So it wasn't really mind-reading as much as coupling.
		Getting on to a level where everybody is striving to make life more tolerable for everybody else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're way out of time here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me give you an opportunity once more to give out your telephone number and address and what you've got there.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So go ahead.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Our information packet is free.
		You can call 800-397-0137, and we'll send it out to you right away.
		But if you want our information packet along with our resource guide, it's $5.
		Have your credit card ready.
		If you want to join the Revolution in Science Today, the International Tesla Society, it's $25.
		And you can do all of this by calling 800-397-0137.
		If you don't get anybody to speak to you immediately, leave your phone number or your address if it's just a request for information and we'll deal with you right away.
		But if for some reason you don't hear from us, try us again, 800-397-0137 and we'd be glad to tell you more about our organization and what we do in science.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you have been a great guest.
		I have just one other past question.
		You've got to give a very quick answer to it.
		I've been dying to know.
		A couple of scientists up in Utah thought they had cold fusion.
		Now we hear they didn't.
		Then I've heard, well, we did.
		Do you know anything about cold fusion?
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, I did a story on it right after it first came out, and there were some 50 universities that did similar studies and were successful.
		But then the tempo grew and there were more and more people finding other reasons why it didn't work.
		I'm not so sure that they didn't do it themselves, but I think that they had a lot of input from some other people that when they step back from them, they're missing a part of the puzzle.
		The puzzle is, can we do cold fusion?
		Answer is yes.
		Are these the men that are going to do it?
		Answer is questionable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Questionable.
		All right, Ms. McGinnis, you have been a wonderful guest.
		There was not enough time.
		We will have you back again.
		Be assured of it.
		Good luck.
		Good luck with your telephones.
j w mcginnis ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and thanks again, Art.
		We really appreciate it.
		And good night, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, everybody is right.
		And I will give out Mr. McGinnis's number one more time.
		It is 1-800-397-0137.
		1-800-39, I'm sorry, 1-800-379-0137.
		1-800-379-0137.
		To get a copy of this program, it's 1-800-917-4278.
		On behalf of all who bring you Dreamland and your local radio station, thank you and good night, everybody.
		This has been Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
		Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not packed.
		Yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.

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