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Nov. 6, 1994 - Art Bell
02:03:42
Dreamland with Art Bell - Interview with an Abductee - Katarina Wilson
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This is a program previously broadcast program.
Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put
in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
It is Sunday evening indeed.
It is once again Dreamland, and I think you're going to love our guest this morning.
She is Katarina Wilson.
She is an abductee.
She has written a book called The Alien Jigsaw.
And I think you'll find this absolutely fascinating.
As usual, with us in the very first portion of the show is Linda Howe.
This morning, or this evening rather, all the way from Philadelphia.
Her home, where she'll be reporting on who knows what, but something that has something to do with one of the two subjects that we discuss.
All the way to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania now, and Linda Howe.
Good evening, Linda.
Hi, Alex.
Last week, I interviewed a woman in Alturas, California about strange craft and beams of light that she and others have seen in that wilderness area not far from the Oregon and Nevada borders.
Yes.
Four people there have also seen triangle-shaped craft appear to send light beams between each other.
And at the end of my Dreamland segment last week, I asked people to write me about any information they have about government interactions with UFOs that might give more information about the question of a possible secret conflict with some kind of off-planet intelligence.
One source that emerged this week is a man from the Navajo American Indian Nation who joined the United States Regular Army on July 27, 1977 when he was 23 years old.
His name is John T. Vasquez, and I think you've had him on another one of your programs, Art, but I don't think that he has... his story has been shared on Dreamland.
Okay.
He was first assigned to Echo Company, 1st Advanced Infantry Training Battalion in the 1st Infantry at Fort Benning, Georgia, near Columbus, Georgia, which is south of Atlanta on the Alabama border.
The commander of Fort Benning in September 1977 was Major General William J. Livesey, Jr.
By September 1, 1977, John Vasquez was shifted to Delta Company in the 1st Battalion, 1st Infantry.
The next day on Friday, September 2, 1977, at 7.30 p.m.
in the evening, There was a mandatory formation of the 1,200 men in the 1st Battalion where company commanders planned to introduce themselves and their staff.
All 1,200 men were outside in their companies in formation under a clear night sky when someone yelled to look up.
John Vasquez saw a light that looked like a star moving in a zig-zag motion.
Then he saw some of the men start running away out of formation and saw a light coming closer to the ground.
This is John Vasquez now speaking in his own first-hand eyewitness testimony about what happened next.
Okay, excellent.
Here comes the report.
And by this time it was already coming down to Charlie Company and it was just this one ball of light and it was about 15 feet in the air, maybe 10.
And I didn't know what that thing was.
I thought it was still a truck or a jeep.
And when I pulled myself backwards, I looked up at the guy who was in front of me and he was standing there asleep with his head bowed.
And he's eyes closed?
Eyes closed.
He was asleep, so I pulled myself backwards, leaned backwards a little, and by this time, I don't know what happened, but I guess I became unconscious or something.
Do you remember going to black, or your body moving, or did you?
No, it just, I just became, somehow, I felt this falling out or this unconsciousness coming across like somehow falling asleep.
And the sound of your commander's voice as he was speaking from the podium?
I didn't hear him at all.
Okay.
I was fixed on his light.
Right.
And I was falling, you know, moving backwards by this time when I saw his light and saw this guy's face.
He was standing there asleep.
So I moved back and this is when I became unconscious a little bit.
And I don't know how long that was, but when I came to, I couldn't move.
My foots were frozen.
I couldn't move my legs.
I tried to move my legs, but I couldn't move.
And what were you seeing?
I was looking at my foot.
So your head is down.
When I came to, I looked at my foot above my feet, and I tried to move, and I couldn't.
So when I looked up, I turned my right body, and I noticed that there's about 30 people still standing around.
And the CO was standing there behind the podium.
And I saw my buddy who was standing right next to me, to my right, running.
And a lot of other guys are running into the trees and underneath the building.
And the commander, was he asleep?
Unparalysed?
When I couldn't move, I had to call my buddy to come back to help me.
And he did come back, and he had to physically pull me away from where I was standing at.
And when he did that, I pulled out of that place where I was standing, and we started to run.
And I told my buddy, who's on my left-hand side now, that I wanted to see the CO.
And he was screaming something, but I didn't understand what he was saying.
I was screaming too, and I wanted to see the CO, so we ran over to the CO, and he was standing behind a podium, asleep.
With his eyes closed too?
Yeah, he had his eyes closed and his head was partially bowed, and he was standing there asleep.
I know I screamed, wake up, out loud and he wouldn't.
By this time my buddy who was standing to my left had turned around and he was looking
at her kind of straight up and his face was all pale and his eyes were like fishbowls
and like he had a job and I was looking at him and it was like something was draining
through out of him like it was kind of a trash look.
So I shook him violently.
I shook him real hard and I told him, don't look, don't look.
And when he came to, he was saying, what's going on?
And I just told him, just take cover, just take cover.
And we started to run.
And by this time, This ball of light, huge ball of light, just showed up to the first building in front of us.
And it was so bright, it silhouetted all the frames of the glass.
And in the scenes of the buildings, you could see it.
It was that bright.
And it was on the other side of this building, and it was coming around this building.
And at this time, we saw the four people that were underneath the building, the first building, and we started screaming for them to tell us what was going on, what was this all like, and they were out, unconscious.
Really?
They didn't move.
I know we were screaming out loud for that same guy who just talked to us, but there
were only four of them underneath there and they were all out, lying there just out, getting
removed or anything.
And did the light seem to respond in any way to the sound of your yells?
No, it just kept coming around this building, the first building, it just kept coming around
the first building and when it came about to the edge of the first building I saw partially
just the first edge of the thing and it was so bright I guess I got fixed on this light
And have you ever seen those searchlights at a car sale?
Sure!
Yeah, it's like looking right into one of them.
Good!
It was that bright and it was coming around And my buddy was laying next to me to my left and he shook me and he yanked me and shook me and said, John, what is it?
Why is it?
And I kind of, I guess I can't stop looking at this.
And I turned to my friend and I told him whatever it is, it's coming this way.
About this time, I started to feel a pressure on my forehead.
A real pressure and it was kind of a squeezing type pressure and I was screaming out loud the pain, the pain and I felt this pain on my left forehead and I heard don't be afraid And the implication, of course, is that these 1,200 men at Fort Benning on September 2, 1977 were affected by a light in what may be categorized as some kind of a multiple abduction encounter that involved telepathic communication, paralysis, people being knocked out of their consciousness.
And eventually, John Vasquez found himself standing again with all the other men in his Delta Company formation.
They all reported that they were nauseous and disoriented, the men around him, and no one knew the exact time because when he and three of the other men looked at their wristwatches, they all had different times.
Mysteriously, by the next day, most everyone seemed to have forgotten the details of that night.
But, on September 16th, 22nd, and 29th, John Vasquez was entered into the Martin Army Hospital at Fort Benning for physical therapy to relieve severe muscle spasms.
His medical records stated that John Vasquez's assignment was D-1.-1, which was Delta Company 1st Battalion, 1st Infantry.
Then he was shipped off to Germany in October 1977, and had no further memory of the September 2 events until he started having nightmares in 1989.
In the last five years, he has filed dozens of FOIA requests for his Delta Company Army records.
To date, every reply states, there was no Delta Company and no John Vasquez at Fort Benning, Georgia in September 1977.
He is a frustrated man and is now trying to find anyone else who was in Delta Company, 1st Battalion, 1st Infantry on September 2, 1977 at Fort Benning, Georgia Anyone with any information about this, please contact me, Linda Howe, at post office box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, zip code 19006.
And as a further footnote to this, Art, it's interesting that I have confidentially heard
a similar story taking place in a large United States corporation around 1989 that has never
been reported.
Huh.
Linda, Ms. Vasquez also did receive some Freedom of Information request documents that seem
to indicate that the government was just about admitting UFOs.
I don't know whether he shared any of that with you.
Yes he did and I'm going to get a package of this material and I hope to really go much further in the investigation of this and do more reporting about other aspects of this case that he and I have discussed.
But I feel that this is an indication that something is happening in the sense that Other military and civilians have reported either a multiple, this is large, 1,200 men, some cases smaller units, where they've encountered some kind of a light, something has happened that was dramatic, and then they appear to lose memory, which they then recover later on in a variety of different dramatic ways, whether it's nightmares or some sort of other memory flash.
And the fact that this kind of event may have affected 1,200 people, it seems to me that somewhere out there, there may be at least another one or two who might have their memories spurred even from these small excerpts tonight.
And right now, we're trying to get corroboration.
Okay, so there is that, and let me ask you this also, Linda.
Is there any possibility that John Vasquez will be regressed hypnotically, or is there any further research that's going to be done into his memory of this?
There is one investigator who has done some limited hypnosis on his case, and we were talking tonight about how we might go further.
I don't think at this point it's clear how to best proceed.
He feels that he wants to see, first of all, if he can find somebody else from his company.
He insists and has the medical records to prove.
That even if somebody is trying to expunge now from the record of the existence of a Delta Company, that his medical records alone prove that he was in Delta Company, and he is hoping he can find somebody else out there who will come forward.
Very good.
Great report, Linda.
And just for the record, one more time, whether it's for your books or tapes, Or it's to contact you with information.
Why don't you give your address and your phone number if you wish.
Right.
Thank you, Art.
It is post office box 538 and the address city is Huntingdon Valley.
Two words.
H-U-N-T-I-N-G-D as in dog.
O-N.
Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
And the zip code is 1-9-0-0-6 and I think I will, I like getting the letters more even than phone calls one way or the other because the letters that our Dreamland audience are sending me have some of the most valuable information that I have been seeing in the last 15 years and I encourage everyone out there to contact me because I will keep everything confidential
that you want confidential and anonymous if you want it anonymous but it does help us
trying to understand this bigger truth of what is happening on our planet.
Linda, good report.
I appreciate it.
I'm glad to hear the Vasquez story again, and I'd love to know any follow-up to that.
I'm going to keep on going, and have a great show with Katerina.
Okay, thank you, and we'll talk to you next week from Philadelphia again?
Next Sunday, I will be in Colorado.
All right.
Talk to you next week from Colorado.
Right.
Thank you.
That's Linda Howe.
She is our investigator.
A roving investigator, I might add.
goes on out there and there have been many reports of strange lights also.
Alright, talk to you next week from Colorado.
Right.
Thank you.
That's Linda Howe.
She is our investigator.
A roving investigator, I might add.
All over the country, all the time, sometimes Europe, wherever the action happens to be.
In a moment, Katarina Wilson, you've heard in 1987, Katarina Wilson read her first book
on the UFO phenomenon titled Intruders, the Incredible Visitations at Copley Woods by
Bud Hopkins.
Her memories prompted her to fill out the Omni Magazine questionnaire titled, Hidden Memories, Are You an Abductee?
In response to the questionnaire and other information, Bud Hopkins contacted her, had a telephone interview with her, followed by subsequent investigation and regressive hypnosis sessions in 1988.
This was followed by an investigation by MUFON investigator Vicki Lyons.
Shortly thereafter, she began working with Dan C. Overlaid, a PhD.
He was a clinical psychologist with over 30 years experience and a move-on consultant who'd also worked with several other abductees in the area.
Katarina Wilson has undergone both physiological and psychological examinations with no abnormalities found to account for her memories of her abduction experiences.
The book is called Alien Jigsaw, her book, It is a chronicle of the first 32 years of Katerina Wilson's life, an average American woman, and an alien abductee.
Not so average.
This is the story of a woman's search for answers, of adjusting to changing realities, and of ultimately achieving success over an overwhelming phenomenon.
In her quest, Katarina has, I believe, interviewed or investigated over 100, repeat, over 100 additional abduction cases.
And in a moment, Katarina Wilson.
If you'd like to call us, you're welcome to do it.
We'll get the telephone lines open just as soon as humanly possible, but we want to get Katarina's story out.
So, coming up, Right after the break, abductee, author, Katerina Wilson.
You're listening to Dreamland on the CBC Radio Network.
work.
With your calls to Dreamland with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh.
always that one.
Welcome back, everybody.
I'm Art Bell, and this is Dreamland.
Throughout Sunday evening, we will be here.
And now, from, I believe, in the Oregon area, it's Area Code 503, so that must be her home.
Here comes Katarina Wilson.
Katarina, welcome to the program.
Hi there.
Hi.
It's great to have you.
I understand, Katarina, you've got some good news on your book, and nobody else knows about it yet, so I thought we'd start there.
Oh, yeah.
The Alien Jigsaw.
What's happened?
Well, I just got word that Barnes & Noble wants to pick it up, and so we think it's going to be in bookstores everywhere by Christmas.
That is wonderful.
Yeah.
They must have a very high opinion, indeed, of it to pick it up.
And of course, as you point out, it will be everywhere.
Well, it certainly is a nice Christmas present.
It sure is.
Congratulations, Katarina.
Thank you.
You are in Oregon, is that correct?
That's right, Portland, Oregon.
Portland, all right.
For us, KEX country, we call it.
Okay.
That's your radio station in Portland, KEX.
Right, right.
Katarina, I like to be able to allow my guests to unfold their story their own way.
So, how in the world Did all this begin for you?
I mean, there you were leading a normal life.
Well, we think I was leading a normal life.
Actually, I had quite a bit of memory since the time I was six years old, and I managed to kind of put things on the back shelf as they would occur.
At first, when I was six, I used to think, well, these unusual things that were being done to me had to be happening because God was making them happen.
You know, as a six-year-old, that's pretty much where I put it.
Were you a religious youngster?
Not really.
We went to church every Sunday, but I never really connected as a child or a teenager
with the religious community, although my mother made sure that all three of us went
to Sunday school every Sunday and we were confirmed through the Lutheran church.
But as a child, and of course aliens don't exist, so the only other person that could
float you outside and paralyze you and telepathically communicate with you was God.
That's kind of how it started for me.
And then I had, throughout my childhood and adolescence, I had occurrences of missing
time and unusual memories again.
And I don't know, I guess you just learn how to deal with that and adapt and you put it
on the back burner because you've got other things in life you need to deal with.
I think for me what happened was I had so many conscious memories that after a certain
amount of time there was nowhere else to go with it.
I could I you know you can only bury so much in your life life and pretty soon it just starts to bubble up and that
started happening.
Kind of like the Vasquez story that Linda told about.
Yes, exactly.
At some point in your life, even though it's perfectly hidden, it seems to start bubbling
up many times with kind of dire consequences psychologically.
Right, whether it's a spontaneous memory or it comes through nightmares or recurring dreams,
eventually the information comes out, I think, with most people.
If it happens enough, you only have so much space in your mind, and you eventually have to release it.
Well, what finally drove you, I guess is the right word, to Bud Hopkins and any other researchers that you've seen?
Well, I would say in 1983 when I started keeping my journal, I had some pretty serious events
happen and I felt like I had to get them out so I started writing them down.
I also had some serious anxiety starting to develop.
That started in 83 and then by about 86 it had reached a point where I convinced my fiancé Eric to nail all the windows shut in the house.
I had all my cats in an enclosure inside the house.
They couldn't run free anymore.
I was going out in the backyard.
We had woods behind our backyard.
And I was going out looking for aliens.
And I thought I was going crazy.
And I had all this anxiety and fear.
And I didn't even know what an alien looked like.
You mean just kind of out wandering around in the woods?
Well, not really in the woods, but we had woods behind our house.
We had a huge backyard and I would be outside at night, you know, silly Katerina, you know, midnight to 2 a.m.
going, gee, where are you?
You know, I'm expecting to see aliens, although at that time I wasn't quite sure what they would look like.
And so that was 86 and 87 I was in a bookstore and uh you know I picked up this this crazy book about UFOs called Intruders and I started reading it and and my god you know it was like reading a story about myself.
All right there's something I need to understand before we uh get to that portion Katarina you say you're out in the woods you were plagued what exactly Had happened to you to bring you to this point, or what did you think had happened to you at that point?
Well, I was constantly, I don't know, I was constantly looking up expecting to see a UFO.
I'd had a sighting when I was 16.
I had had a pretty clear sighting of three hamburger-shaped crafts.
They were silver with yellow, red and blue lights around the midsection.
My mother, my brother, the people I was babysitting for and several of the children and my cul-de-sac
that I lived on, the street I lived on, they were all outside.
It was very late between midnight and 2 a.m. again and we had the sighting.
The interesting part about that is at the end of the sighting, to me it lasted 45 minutes.
I was the only one out there at the end.
At the beginning we were all out there together and my feeling when I saw them was confirmation
of familiarity.
It was like I had always known about them.
At 16, of course, I told my friends in high school and they ridiculed me and laughed at me.
I learned not to talk about those kind of things, so I buried that for another decade.
And so at 16, you know, so here I am at 26, I'm thinking, well, I know they exist, and I know they're up there.
I kept looking up, and I just had like a free-floating anxiety of fear of something out there that was going to come in and get me, and hurt my cat and me.
I was having, you know, I was aware of the recurring type dreams I was having and the memories, you know, I'd walk up to a wall and think, gee, you know, I know I could go through this if I just could remember how to do it.
Wow.
Just odd things.
And at the time, of course, I thought I was crazy because I had not read a book about UFOs, much less about the abduction phenomenon.
Sure.
And then, of course, the first book I would pick up would be about the abduction phenomenon.
I had two books in my hand.
One was about sightings and the other was about intruders.
It was about UFOs.
I said, I know they exist.
This is what I need.
I didn't really know what intruders was about other than the UFO phenomenon.
your life story, so to speak.
So as you read, you said, aha, this is it.
This is what's been going on.
No, I said, oh my God, what am I going to do?
And I actually gave the book to my fiancé and said, you know,
I want you to read this.
And I just kind of, you know, put my head down and said, you know, we'll just wait and see.
And he finished it, and we just looked at each other.
We didn't really say anything but we looked at each other and it was kind of a sad, intense moment because we knew without speaking to one another what we needed to do and that was to look into that.
And so you did.
And how did the research develop?
In other words, I guess it was Bud Hopkins, right?
Right.
All right.
How did Bud handle it with you?
You talked to him once by telephone, then what?
Yeah, well, I filled out the Omni-Questionnaire and I couldn't just say yes or no and circle the answer.
I had to go get my journal and write down all these things.
For each question, I gave him about five pages, which I think Any advocate that goes through this awakening and has somebody finally, for the first time in their life, they can talk to about this, will know exactly what I'm saying.
When somebody asks you a simple question, you can talk and write, you know, pages and pages about that.
So I ended up having to bind the material I sent him with the questionnaire.
I literally, I thought, well, this guy, first of all, I don't know who he is, and second of all, when he gets this, he's going to think I'm nuts, and my fiancé, my husband now, Eric insisted that I mail this to him and I fully expected, you know, the men in the white coats to show up at my house and take me away when he got it.
And I remember sending it to his house.
I didn't want to send it through Omni because I didn't want anybody at Omni magazine to read this stuff.
I sent it to his home address.
Then he called a couple of weeks later and conducted a pretty lengthy telephone interview
with me and said, ìWell, Iím going to be in town this spring and Iíd like to get together
with you.î Thatís when he did more face-to-face interviewing and thatís when I wrote that
infamous list of good and bad qualities down that he put in the introduction.
I had forgotten all about that, that Iíd ever written that down for him.
We did two regressive hypnosis sessions in a weekend, Friday and Sunday.
And Eric was always present during those.
Not a lot of alien information, well no alien information really came out in the regressive hypnosis sessions.
But what he was able to do was to break through some kind of mental barrier that either my unconscious mind put up or the alien beings themselves imposed on me not to remember.
By going through these hypnosis sessions, I was able to look at a couple of areas of my childhood that were questionable, although no alien activity really came out.
He did break through that, and wow, the weeks after that, it was just spontaneous memories.
It was just like somebody had opened a door of a big, filthy, cluttered closet.
So it all came crashing down.
All right, well, I guess that's the meat of it then.
What in the world surfaced?
What did you suddenly remember?
What has happened to you, Katerina?
Well, I figured out pretty quickly that, you know, a lot of the memories that I had been holding in and denying, like the childhood experience that, you know, from the best that I can remember happened when I was six, that, you know, this Most likely wasn't God that did this.
That there was some other intelligence at work and... Specifically that did what?
What were your memories of?
Yeah, the memories were of flying, seeing the road below me and flying through the air.
Floating, not having any clothes on and floating and having a telepathic voice inside my head.
Somebody communicating a very important message to me that I was not able to remember, but I knew that it was more important than anything in my life.
Seeing what I call a hybrid type being wearing a white lab coat, telling me that after this
little mark on my arm heel that I have a little hole there.
Things like that.
Unusual people telling you things that really happen.
You know, you wake up and they say this is going to happen.
You wake up with this scoop mark scar and there it is.
Scoop mark.
Katarina, I want to find out more about that.
Hold on just one moment.
We'll be right back to you.
My guest is Katarina Wilson and her book is The Alien Jigsaw.
The most important... Yes.
on your right arm and well just missing skin or you know yeah what happened was my memory
told me that there was a doctor vague looking face but definitely humanoid and he had on
a white lab coat and he had performed something he did something to my arm.
And he said, well, you know, tomorrow, when this heals, you'll have a little hole there.
And I detected a little smile and I smiled and I said, oh, well, that'll be neat.
You know, I was a kid like eight or nine years old and I thought that'd be pretty neat to have a little hole in your arm.
And the next day I had this little scab on my arm and it healed just very quickly.
And there was like, what I described to Bud Hopkins, my scars.
He said, you have any unusual scars?
And I described mine as looking like craters on the moon.
And I said, well, I have these little scars that might look like little craters on the moon.
And this is what, you know, the one on my arm looks like.
It's in the photograph and in the book.
What I did the next day, of course, was I wanted to show my mother.
And I went up to my mother and said, oh look, look, look, isn't this neat?
And I want you to see this little hole in my arm.
And she wouldn't even look at it.
She became...
Almost hysterical, you know, from my point of view, and refused to look at it, kind of threw her arms up and just got away from me as fast as she could.
Wow, how odd.
So I thought, well, gee, that's strange.
And perhaps from her response, I spent, oh, and I even try to cover it up today, many, many years.
you know, 20 years trying to hide that little scar from people because I was kind of embarrassed for it to be there.
Have you ever asked your mom why she reacted that way?
Well, not about that particular scar.
She is, she's kind of a new recruit, so to speak.
I see.
She is still reading my book, which she's finding quite interesting, and so we're taking the questions slowly.
She's about, oh, I think a little over halfway through the book, so we'll get to that.
Okay.
How many of your memories, Katerina, are now vivid?
All of them.
All the ones that I talk about and write about are vivid.
When I talk about an abduction experience in my book, it is as real as my waking reality.
My memories of the experiences I chose to write about and that I put in writing are real.
Um, if I have a vague memory, it was not, you know, my vague memories and vague dreams were not published in the book.
I have a lot of that, but what I wanted was the ones I was absolutely certain about.
Alright, alright, well then give me some of those that are very specific, um, because What you described when you got your scoop mark, for example, where were you?
Were you taking to a craft?
What kind of a craft were you in?
Who was this doctor?
Was he, you said, vaguely or fairly humanoid?
Well, that particular experience, the only part about that one, and that one is not in the book, the photograph is in the book, but the part I remember about that really happened in the house.
It was after I had come back to the house and we were facing one another standing at
my bin of the house at that time.
But I can go back and there is a hybrid being that I call the doctor that I have a picture
of in the book that I have seen several times.
He told me he had been visiting me since 1965 which was when I was about five or six years old.
The ones that I see him in are usually very, very large.
Some people will call these motherships.
I refer to them in the book sometimes as three-story malls, which is probably why I hate going
to the mall.
But again, this particular craft is large.
There's usually a hospital or clinic type portion to the craft.
Very wide hallways.
Curved walls.
Sometimes there's sloping walkways within the craft.
In the hospital-like areas, there are clinical hospital rooms.
They're usually fairly bare.
There's maybe a bed or a glass box.
Very similar to the descriptions given by other abductees.
Yeah, yeah.
And like the glass box situations are usually during the presentation of infants and children.
They present a lot of these babies and infants in glass boxes.
And that was a very vivid experience with the doctor.
He was presenting me this black infant in a glass box and told me that this was my baby.
And it was a black child.
It was a black child.
Well, actually he told me it was mine and Eric's baby, which that was.
what really got me because I you know we're both white and I don't I didn't I
logically didn't know how we could have a black child so I left the room and
went walking through this ship to another room and which is something I
think Forrest Crockett sound very interesting that you seem to get to walk
around the ship Katerina and not everybody gets to do that Did you know that?
And I thought, well, no, I'm always walking around the ship because I always, you know, I'm always doing something I'm not supposed to be doing with them.
And I usually leave the room or get irritated with them or something.
And in this case, I got irritated and thought, well, they lost my baby.
Right.
You know, I said, well, hospitals are always losing people's babies.
Where did I get that idea?
And so I went to another room and there was a woman, a human woman, lying in a bed and there was another glass box, you know, two to three feet square.
And she had a child in her box and I picked him up.
He had white hair.
I picked him up and he opened his eyes and they were gold.
Golden eyes.
Wow.
And I always called him the golden-eyed boy.
But he seemed to have a neurological problem and was very, very sick.
And of course I decided, well, he has golden eyes, he can't be my child.
That was Before, I really knew what I know about abductions today and that is that there seems to be a hybridization type program going on where they appear to be mixing different races together.
While some of the children seem human, others are totally alien and others are in between where they have human and alien characteristics.
Have they ever actually telepathically or otherwise talked to you about why they are doing all of this?
A tough question.
Um, I feel on one level that I do know the reason why they're doing it.
Alright, Katarina, hold that thought.
We're gonna go do the news.
You won't hear anything.
Don't let that worry you.
We'll be right back to you.
Uh, Katarina Wilson, we'll pick it up at that point.
This is Dreamland.
This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
We continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell.
Call Art now, toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-TALK.
First time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
702-727-1222.
Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
727-1295.
In the 702 area code.
Now again, here's Art Bell.
Now again, here I am.
My guest is Katarina Wilson.
code 702-727-1222, 702-727-1222, or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295, 727-1295
in the 702 area code. Now again, here's Art Venable.
Now again, here I am. My guest is Katarina Wilson. She has authored a book called The
Alien Jigsaw, just picked up by Barnes & Noble, so you'll be able to get it anywhere, and
we're going to find out more about her experiences in just a moment. Back now to Katarina Wilson.
Katarina.
Hi.
Hi. All right. So you think that there's some sort of genetic motive, some sort of genetic
motive.
Well, not just genetic motive.
I think I may have left some of your listeners hanging.
I was going to say I feel as if I've been told why they're creating these children, but I haven't been allowed to remember it consciously.
I think that there is some holding back of information by the aliens themselves for whatever their purposes are.
But besides the genetic factor, I think that, or maybe because of the genetic factor and the creation of these other beings, babies, beings, Um, I think we, you know, have to look at the other, the type of psychological testing they're doing with abductees, the other types of physiological tests, and perhaps hindrances of, you know, maybe creating problems with people, severe medical problems with people, and perhaps even curing other problems.
You know, some people report being healed of problems that they used to have prior to their experiences or inexperience.
to be a good motive? In other words, are they well-intentioned toward us, do you think?
Or is it something we should be frightened of?
Well, I... even if their intentions are not positive, I don't think we need to be frightened
of them. I think being afraid is only going to hinder our ability to understand what they're
doing.
Regardless of whether they're here for good or bad, the first step is not to fear them.
You're not going to be able to figure out what's going on and understand your experiences if you're consumed with fear.
I just want to put that out there.
Um, I have seen them do some good things.
I've seen them do bad things.
Um, there are times I feel like I'm just an experimental animal to them.
There are other times that I feel that they love me and they care tremendously for me.
Uh, like we would care for our own children.
And I would, you know, I've kind of, I guess maybe I'm speculating or I'm just basing on my own, um, experiences here that Since I've seen so many different types of beings, obviously they have different agendas, and I think there are some here that care about us more than others.
I'm not trying to back out of that question, but that's what I've seen.
I understand.
There are some very loving, wise, spiritually advanced beings, and then we have things like animal mutilations going on.
I know.
Any way you look at that, that is not positive.
I think we have different aliens with different agendas, and we need to figure out, you know, as much as we can about all of them.
Well, I don't know.
The animal mutilations may involve environmental research.
People have talked about that.
Maybe it is not negative.
I mean, we, after all, experiment ourselves on animals for the benefit of mankind.
Medical research.
Right.
So, who knows?
Have they ever given you a message for us?
Well, not really.
They haven't sat me down and said, OK, Katerina, we want you to tell your people this.
I have pretty much had to experience and, you know, sort out, assimilate all the things that have happened to me and tried to Figure out what's going on myself.
You know, I am not one of the people that get a lot of answers told to me.
I mean, they don't just sit me down and tell me things.
I have to learn it for myself and figure it out for myself.
I do believe that there is quite a bit of information that I'm not remembering consciously that I think that they probably have told me more as to the whys, you know, of what they're doing.
Are you tempted to do any more regression to try to find out?
Yeah, sometimes.
But when you remember so much, it's kind of like, well, let me just deal with all this stuff I'm remembering consciously.
Why try to stir up any more than I'm ready to deal with right now.
I'm confident in the conscious memories I have.
I'm pretty darn good at disseminating what is a screen memory, what was camouflage, what was the theatrical scenario they were doing, and a straightforward abduction, this was an experiment.
This was a test, this was a screen memory, that kind of thing.
I've really learned to discriminate between the different types of experiences and then of course when you do get the screen memories or you know that you've had an experience and you don't remember anything, that is really frustrating.
Perhaps hypnosis would help there and perhaps not.
My hypnosis sessions with Dan Overlaid We revealed some new information but not a lot, not very
much at all.
We basically rehashed a lot of what I had already written down in my journal because
I had been keeping the journal and it was important for me to document everything I
remembered prior to going through hypnosis.
I know that you've done some very interesting work in one rather sensitive area.
I guess if we're going to follow on this business of genetic experimentation, and I know that
aliens have been said to collect ovum and sperm and all the rest of it, and you tried
to relate the times when you were abducted.
Or I suppose when others have been abducted to your menstrual cycle, didn't you?
Right, right.
The research I did in the Researcher Supplement was because I was one of those people that
had a lot of monthly pain and it was pretty much debilitating for me so there was no doubt
in my mind.
My life kind of revolved around either my migraine headaches or this other aspect of
being a female.
And so there was a lot of documentation done.
You know with that for medical purposes and so it was easy for me to correlate when my
experiences would happen to the time of the month that they would happen.
Okay, what did you discover?
Well what I found out and I didn't write any statistics on this, this is frequencies and
percentage information but what I found out was that during the first eight days after
ovulation I had the most the highest number of experiences.
And whether it's statistically significant or not, I don't know.
And we won't know until a lot of other women start documenting this type of information.
Well, I know that you've researched about a hundred cases of abduction, haven't you?
I think where the number comes in is my book covers 119 of my own abduction experiences over a 32-year time period.
As far as other abductees, I would say that the number is closer to maybe 60 people.
Okay. Alright, well that's fine.
You know, 60 people. When I, when I, my work with addictive teens, I don't do, I don't perform hypnosis.
It's more of a, just a support group situation, discussion group, telephone therapy.
I try to put them in touch with other people here.
No, that's fine.
What I would like to ask is, what commonality have you found, if any, between those who have been abducted, including yourself?
Well, I have spoken with some other women who have also noticed that they appear to be abducted.
Pretty regularly during the time they're ovulating and I thought that was quite interesting that this wasn't just an anomaly with me it may be an anomaly with five of us here in Portland but it does seem to occur More often.
It's like they can always count on the beings coming while they're ovulating.
No, I think this is really, really an interesting aspect to follow because so many people have said it is genetic and this would be another line of proof.
Right, right.
And the reason I put this very personal information out there was because I wanted to encourage other women to do the same.
They don't have to publish it themselves, but they can certainly share it with their hypnotherapist, or whoever they're doing their hypnosis with, or any other researchers.
This is the kind of correlational data we need to start out with.
I mean, you need to start with correlational data in order to work towards... That's right.
We have the medical community behind us right now and until we can get enough of our little pieces of data, you know, together to show them that, hey, we think we have something here, will you take a look at it?
That's where I was driving, you know, what I was driving for and I still am and if anybody's listening and you're a woman and you've are having abduction experiences, but you remember this is
so important.
This is one of those little things that we can do not only to help ourselves, but to
draw some attention from the medical community or hopefully from some of those MDs on the
board of directors of Nufon to take a look at this stuff.
I guess I'm not sure where to go from here with you other than to ask you if you can
describe any of the beings that you encountered other than the doctor, the one that you described.
Oh, yeah.
Um, gosh, I have so many illustrations in my book of the ones that I, uh, I am not an artist, so I have to really see something in order to draw it.
Sure.
And so I have, um, several different types of hybrids, and I think that we may be hearing more about first, second, third generation hybrid beings in the future from other researchers.
I'm pretty much sure that I'm seeing hybrids with very human characteristics to more alien characteristics and I'm speculating that maybe we're having a first, second and third generation hybrids here that they are becoming more and more like us.
Maybe or perhaps so much like us that we can't really distinguish them from Do you think they are down here walking about?
I think it is possible.
I think it is probable.
And that is not something I say lightly.
It is something that maybe three years ago if somebody had said this to me I would have
said no I don't think it is probable.
The different types of hybrids I have seen and how human they can look and other people
describing the same type of being.
I think it's probable.
I've seen four different types of beings that I would classify as gray.
Very short, three foot tall floating gray skinned being to a seven foot tall gray being with the big head and the big round black eyes.
You know, a gray is not a gray is a gray.
There are different types of grays and that's something that I thought was very important to put out and so I have the four different illustrations of those beings in the book.
Probably the most unusual looking being was the praying mantis, something I call a praying mantis type being with ebony skin, kind of a Oh, maybe an exoskeleton, but when she walked, she kind of, oh I guess her back was at about a 45 degree angle, and she would kind of rot back and forth as her legs would move, and that was probably the most unusual type of being I saw.
Katarina, don't take offense at this, I'm going to just ask you a straight out question.
It is, how have you satisfied yourself or come to terms with this question that you're not crazy
as a loon.
I mean this is wild stuff you're talking about.
How have you satisfied yourself that this is real and not a concoction of your mind?
Right.
Well, what I had to do was play by the same rules that everybody else has to play by and
that was that because of my migraine headaches partially and because of my abduction experiences,
I've had a brain CAT scan, a CAT scan of my sinus area, I've had a complete psychological
evaluation.
With a psychologist that did not believe in UFOs and a psychologist that did believe in the possibility of the... Well, I guess Dan Overlay believed that the phenomenon was real, so we'll say he believed in it.
And then the other doctor did not believe.
Yeah, and for the sake of the discussion, his conclusions are perhaps more interesting.
The one who did not believe... The one who did not believe...
He told me that well I did at my last meeting with him I asked him if he believed in UFOs this wasn't something we really discussed but at the end he he knew that I believed him because I'd had that sighting and everything but this was prior to the UFO investigation.
Right.
He diagnosed me as You know a normal person without I mean he said you're okay.
There's nothing Psychologically wrong with you you have some problems with self-esteem Let's see we did But not a paranoid schizophrenic.
Oh no no no there wasn't there was no classification.
He said I was okay I was normally functioning.
I had low self-esteem and then I had You know I was unsure about what I wanted to do with my career
because that was a rough time for me when I wasn't playing music anymore.
Well that would describe many of us.
Yeah, yeah.
But he, you know, he didn't, you know, I mean he was nice and he really helped me and he
also, what we did, what I did with him too was...
He charted everything I ate for three months and how I felt.
We charted my mood on a daily basis.
He diagnosed me with I didn't believe in TMS back then.
I didn't believe that this was a real thing.
This is what my diagnosis was, low self-esteem and TMS.
Dan Overlaid's diagnosis was post-traumatic stress disorder.
Yeah, he agreed I had TMS and low self-esteem.
You know, it's kind of funny to talk about this stuff.
Okay, so there it is.
Two opinions.
What about the physical exams?
The physical exams, I didn't find anything in the sinus cavity with the CAT scan.
That was after an experience during which I thought something had been removed from my sinus area and then I really thought something had been put in.
And the brain CAT scan was normal.
There were no abnormalities with my brain, and incidentally, I had an MRI done last week, last Friday, and I don't have the results back from that yet.
But I have pursued some further investigation because of the migraine situation.
I mean, I can't go in there for abductions, but I do have severe migraine, so I am able So far so good.
get them to look at my brain so I'm you know hoping to to get the results back
from that real soon. So far though so good no no abnormalities.
No and I'm the kind of person that I want to know the truth I don't care what it is you know I don't
care if the truth one day 20 years down the road we find out that this is all
chemically induced by the brain and you had the scars because of stigmata you
I mean, I want the truth and right now I believe that the alien beings are real.
And they are interacting with us.
But I have to remain open to the possibility that 20 years down the road we may know so much more about medicine that this is a chemical imbalance and our thoughts are creating the scars.
I mean, I don't know.
I don't know.
But I have to remain open, at least partially open to that because for me not to For me to just close my mind off to any other explanation and not to listen to anything else or anyone else's opinion would be just like what Stan Freeman likes to term the noisy negativist.
You know, they've already made up their mind to show me the data.
That's right.
You know, it wouldn't be fair for me to say anything else, I mean to believe anything else.
But right now, where I am now in my life and what I know and...
Well, he's a wonderful person and I feel very lucky.
He's had his own experiences.
How is your husband handling all of this?
Well, he's a wonderful person and I don't know, I feel very lucky.
He's had his own experiences.
He doesn't care to pursue an in-depth investigation about his own involvement.
He does have his memories and deals with them in his own way.
I've had a lot of people like you tell people when I ask, you know, for other people that have been abducted, I ask, should these people investigate what they think is an abduction in their own life or multiple abductions?
And a lot of people like yourself have said No, unless it's bothering you to the degree it's disrupting your life, don't do it.
Right, I agree with that.
The old saying, if it's not broken, don't fix it.
If you're not having problems, and you don't have memories, and if your missing time isn't bothering you, then congratulations, I'm really happy for you, and get on with your life, and live it to the fullest.
You know, that's how I feel.
Alright, missing time.
That's another good topic and we'll jump on that in just a moment and begin to open the telephone lines.
Katarina, hold on just a moment.
My guest is Katarina Wilson and she has been abducted many times.
If you have questions for her or about abduction or one of your own experiences, we're going to open up the lines in just a moment.
Stay right where you are.
This is Dreamland.
the world.
Katerina Wilson.
Katerina, hi.
Hi.
Are you ready for a few questions?
Well, I thought I was going to have some missing time, so if I'm not here... Yes, of course I'm ready for the phone.
Alright, we'll get to missing time in a moment.
Let's get to the phone calls.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Katerina Wilson.
Hi, um, I just had a question for you.
For me?
Yes, for you.
Alright.
Okay, my friend just moved to Sacramento and he loves your show and he listens to it every Sunday and he wants to know how he can get it down there.
In Sacramento?
Right.
On K-S-T-E radio.
K-S-T-E?
K-S-T-E, uh, in Sacramento, and I believe they're on 650 on the dial.
That's great, and your show's great.
Okay.
I really enjoy it every Sunday, also.
Thank you very much for the call, sir.
On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with Katerina Wilson.
Hello?
Yes, hello?
Yes, hi, Eric.
This is Julie from Eagle River.
Eagle River, Alaska.
Okay, you're gonna have to speak up for us, good and loud.
Okay.
Um, hi.
I wasn't expecting to get on so soon.
Um, I've been listening to your show religiously for a long time.
I've read everything I can on UFOs.
And after the show last week, I went and bought that book, Mary's Message to the World.
Yes.
And it just, it just, I feel like it just has cleared everything up about the babies, the hybrid babies and everything.
If you read that book, it makes you feel like, um, cause Mary has said that when our world ends up here, But we're going to continue on somewhere else, and we'll all look completely different, we'll be a lot more spiritual, and we'll be a lot different.
And they do mention the UFOs in that book.
And you just wonder if maybe they're not just getting us ready for when that's going to happen.
Alright, thank you.
Katerina, what about that?
Oh yeah, I'd like to comment on that.
A theory that has been stated within the UFO community.
I actually know an abductee here in Portland who has had experiences.
Now when I say, when I mention an abductee, I know the person.
I've known them for a while.
It's not just somebody I've talked to once or twice.
I know them as a friend.
And so I feel confident relaying this information.
She has had experiences during which she has For example, seeing the life force leave a child and go into another body and she has been asked or encouraged to practice leaving her body to move into a new body that will be waiting for her when the time is right and she's told that when it is time for you to do this you will know and you will know how to
move from your old body into your new body.
And this to me kind of infers or implies that maybe there is, maybe something will be happening
during our lifetime that we will be leaving these bodies and moving into other bodies.
I mean, it's not just this one person.
I've heard this from other people, but I'm relaying her information because I know her as a person and I know that she's a good, honest individual and she's also an advocate and she's worked with a clinical psychologist.
I actually was holding Mary's message to the world today in a bookstore, and I said, I should buy this book, and I didn't buy it.
I don't know why.
I said, oh, I really should.
You should buy it.
I agree, you should buy it.
I think that maybe I'll go back tomorrow and get it.
I wonder, Katarina, what it is that has some people who are abducted getting, in effect, messages for the world, and others, like yourself, Not really getting messages for the world, but just being subject of medical experimentation, apparently.
Yeah, I don't know.
I ask that question a lot, too.
Myself, I've had an experience.
After both of the books were published this year, I saw a gray alien and a blonde child sitting side by side, and I watched the life force of the gray alien go into the blonde child.
The little blonde boy looked like he was about five years old.
Where was this?
This was on a ship and behind a glass wall.
I was on one side of the glass wall.
They were on the other side of the glass wall.
And after the life force went into the child, the child kind of, they were sitting down.
He stood up and then he teleported himself.
I mean with thought.
I knew that with thought he was floating himself and he went into this little playroom and
he was floating and I thought, my God, these beings are telekinetic.
They can teleport themselves.
It was just phenomenal to see this.
I also felt, from my point of view, I felt a great sadness because the life force left
the gray alien.
I mean, he died.
I felt really sad.
But then in another way, I think that maybe I just didn't understand.
Was the, well, I need to understand more about this.
Was the young boy human?
The young boy was, I would say, humanoid.
I don't know if he was, well, certainly wasn't human because he could float.
I mean, you know, at will, float himself around, teleport himself.
Well, I meant physically in appearance.
Physically in appearance, he looked human with the exception That he had a very muscular upper body.
He was about five years old and he had a muscular upper body.
And you saw the life force of the alien, the Grey, leave that Grey's body and go into the young five-year-old boy.
Right.
That's a little frightening, Katarina.
Well, it was very sad for me.
I felt great sadness during the experience and the following couple of days.
And I just hope that it was, you know, a volunteer thing, you know, for the for the gray.
I hope he volunteered to do that and was not forced.
Well, I guess it occurs to me the wrong way.
But if that was a human boy, Katerina, he, in effect, is now possessed.
Well, it didn't seem.
Well, let me the way I look at it is If the soul is eternal, which I believe we have a soul, and I believe the soul is eternal, for instance, each time we come back to this planet, we know we live in a human body, or a physical body, and if we come back more than once, then we're going to need more than one body.
So, you know, we're getting a little more into reincarnation here than perhaps what we're talking about.
Are you a believer in reincarnation?
Yes, in that respect I believe the soul is eternal and that part, the life force of the
individual continues whether you are in the physical body or not.
In that respect I do.
On the toll free line you are on the air with Katerina Wilson.
Hi.
Good morning, good evening Art.
This is Leonard in Albany, Oregon.
Hello.
I have a question for Katerina.
Is that how you say it?
Yes.
I've always wondered is it possible, I mean, I've been in the business for a long time,
If you haven't ever met any of these alien people or anything like that, is it possible
for you, if you have a desire to get in contact with them, to contact them without them contacting
you?
Well, I certainly have had my moments where I wanted to relay information to them and
I explain in my book, and I know other advocacy's have explained that they can sense when the
The beings are nearby.
Sometimes they don't get visited, but they know they are nearby and they might be tuning in to them, watching them, listening or some kind of mental tuning in to the abductee to maybe check on them.
So they are not physically abducted, but in those instances when you sense that, it's that or when I have sensed that, I have given them messages
and I've tried to relay my thoughts or my message was or my information or my question.
What about somebody who has never had any interaction with them?
Would you say you're out of your mind for wanting to do such a thing and be careful
what you wish for?
I would definitely say be careful what you wish for because there's a lot more out there
besides extraterrestrial beings.
And if you want to open yourself up, for instance, the Ouija board is a good example.
It really is.
If you want to open yourself up, there are spirit beings, there are forces out there that would gladly entertain you and would probably misguide you.
And I would say be very careful what you wish for.
Yes.
I don't think any of us, when we were six years old or five years old, said, gee, I want to be an abductee or I want to be abducted by aliens.
Well, I'm sure there are some people, Katarina, who listen to this and think, oh, how romantic.
Oh, it'd be great.
Boy, what a story I'd have to tell.
I'd be a unique individual if this happened to me.
I mean, there are people who, for their own reasons, maybe even self-esteem, Katarina, Well, I would say that we are all unique.
have this happen? Well, I would say that we are all unique.
You don't have to have this in your life to be special. I don't think I'm special at
all. I'm simply a normal person who happens to be involved, or they happen to be involved
with me.
Um, but I, I don't, you know, I would feel a little sad for somebody that would want, that would really want this in their life.
It is a wondrous story, you know, but when you look at the whole picture, um, it's, It's mind boggling.
It's the biggest story, the biggest event that humankind has ever had to look at.
But you're not thoroughly convinced, are you, that it's real?
Or are you?
I'm thoroughly convinced that it's real, yes.
This is 100% real to me.
Well, a little while ago you said you would hold your mind open.
Oh yeah, like I said, right now I believe these are real beings, that these aliens are real, they're really coming here.
But I can't totally close off my mind to the possibility that one day, as we learn more, know, about our minds and how the brain operates because we
really don't know that much about the brain.
Who is to say what we are going to learn?
That really is the truth.
And that is something that, you know, maybe it is just this little window over here with
this beam of light shining through that, you know, it is just this little bit of belief
that we are going to go in that direction, but I still have it there.
It's not... I just can't totally close off my mind to that possibility.
Well, it's called... It's called an open mind, Katerina.
Yeah.
Well, I guess.
On the wild card... Yeah, really... You know, I believe that this is a real phenomenon affecting us worldwide.
Good enough.
On the wild card line, you're on the air with Katerina Wilson.
Hi.
Hi.
Thanks for letting me be on.
This is Carol up in Mount Shasta.
Hi, Carol.
Uh, two things, Katerina.
Um, one...
I'll take my answers on the air.
I have a feeling that there are more walking about among us than most would suspect.
So my question is, how many millions are weaseling their way into our society?
And the other is, I'm kind of appalled at your lack of horror.
I mean, you're being used All right, good point.
First questions first.
There's mixing and matching going on by strangers that are messing up our airs.
And I for one don't like it.
I want someone in contact with them to say no.
Alright, good point.
First questions first.
How many millions do you think are walking among us?
Is it millions?
Is it a few?
Is it increasing numbers?
What do you think, Katarina?
Well, you know, this is purely speculation on my part.
And you know...
I really don't know.
I don't think it's millions, but, you know, what do I know?
I think that, um, there are probably, uh, I would say, out of the choices, I would say increasing numbers.
Increasing numbers?
Yeah, I would say increasing numbers and leave it at that, because I'm really, I don't, I don't really know.
What makes you think, Katerina, that we are not being, in effect, slowly, it's a horrible scenario, but that we are not being slowly replaced Well, you know, when we talk about the existence of a soul, God, you know, can create many, many different types of beings, not just human beings.
You know, when we talk about the existence of a soul, God can create many, many different
types of beings, not just human beings.
I think that the mixing is probably, you know, perhaps there are alien souls incarnating
on the planet, you know, into this earth plane, if you will.
And I don't see anything wrong with that.
I mean, who's to say that I'm not an alien soul?
You know, who's to say that I don't really belong here because of where my soul originated?
You know, nobody can really, you know, that's not fair.
That kind of walks us into the second question about your apparent lack of horror at what's going on.
Now, you do seem fairly comfortable about this, even at times almost joking about it.
How come?
Well, my rule is it's okay to laugh at myself, laugh with myself.
I never laugh at other abductees.
I don't do that.
So, I have to be able to laugh at myself because it is very difficult.
It is very Very painful sometimes.
Is this a protective reaction on your part, Katarina?
Well, I try to stay balanced and focused.
And yes, it is very hard.
And yes, I have my bad days.
I get down about this.
You know, when I think about what they're doing, what they're creating, I think about the babies.
It hurts.
It's painful.
I don't like it.
But on the other hand, I would like to invite human beings who are listening to consider what we are doing to animals and let's see how they feel about their position.
You know, we don't know for a fact that animals are not conscious, don't have a soul, and I think that, you
know, how can we be so mad at what the aliens are doing when what we do to animals is,
you know, much, much worse than what has been done to me.
All right.
On the wild card line, you're on the air with Katerina Wilson.
Hi.
Hello, this is Fitz from Phoenix.
Hello, Fitz.
Well, Katerina, it's a pleasure to hear how well adjusted you are to the abduction program.
really unnatural. Oh.
Oh, thank you.
And I would say this, on your next journey, tell them that you want something in return for your cooperation.
Tell them you want some knowledge about the coming earth changes or any information about a concerning event.
I think you have a good point.
Maybe I am a little too obedient and I, you know, could probably incubate some questions if I feel or sense they're Well, use your leverage.
You're definitely a natural for that.
I will give it a try.
All right, Fritz.
Thank you.
Yes, he does make a good point.
If you could ask any question of them, Katarina, and be assured of an answer, what would you ask?
I would ask for the truth.
About what they're doing?
The truth about... Yes, I would like the truth about them, regardless of what that answer is.
If the whole planet is going to die tomorrow, or whether it's a wondrous thing, I want the truth.
I do ask them that.
I do sense their presence before a visit.
I try to orient myself, my mind, and I try to relax.
I try to just concentrate on the question.
Nine times out of ten, it's tell me the truth about why you're here and why you're doing I've asked that question a lot.
What do you get?
A big silence?
I don't really get an answer.
If they've told me it's their decision that I'm not allowed to remember it consciously, there's a chance that I have the answer but I'm not remembering it on a conscious level.
You know, perhaps hypnosis would help and perhaps I'm not ready.
I don't know.
I think I'm ready.
Is there any point during your abductions when you have been terrified?
Yes.
When?
I believe there is a particular being, my experience is I believe it's a type 1 gray I've described this type of being as a mind-prober, mind-controller, and before I realized who they were, they would terrify me because their presence was just so very alien, so different from anything I've experienced.
Once I realized who they were and what they looked like and that they weren't going to harm me, I was no longer afraid of them.
So when I felt that presence I didn't fear it.
The part of my experience is when you read my book you'll realize that the actual leaving my bed is the part.
That terrifies me the most, because you are literally placed in a different space.
Leaving not just your bed, really, but your body as well.
Sometimes I think these are astral projections.
Katarina, we're at the top of the hour, so rest for about five or six minutes.
I want to focus on the physical reality of the abduction phenomenon.
We'll be right back and do that.
This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
We continue with your calls on Greenland with Art Bell.
Call Art now toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
Call 1-800-618-8255.
702-727-1222.
Or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295.
727-1295 in the 702 area code.
727-1222, 702-727-1222, or the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295, 727-1295, in the
702 area code. Now again, here's Art Bell.
Now again, here I am.
This is Dreamland.
Good evening.
And, uh, it's kind of a big, uh, evening in a lot of ways.
I'm Dean Wilson.
Katerina?
Mm-hmm?
I've got a fax here.
And let me read it in its entirety, and I'll just let you respond to it the way you would like to, alright?
Okay.
Art, ask Katerina about the meat of this issue.
What are her feelings about the future?
Why are so many aliens here at this time in history?
When does she think there'll be a public appearance?
Can she at least speculate on the information she thinks the aliens are withholding?
How about the dreams she's had?
Regarding these questions, what has she learned from the hundred other abductees she's interviewed?
Sixty, actually.
I can find descriptions of spaceships and encounters in any bookstore.
The strength of your Dreamland interviews is that they cut through the crap and get to the heart of the matter.
So can you shed any light on any of those questions?
Could you repeat a few of them for me?
Sure.
What are your feelings about the future?
Pretty dim.
Why?
Well, you know, I was thinking earlier that maybe I should just do a little speculating and not worry so much about, you know, what everybody is going to say about, you know, Dr. Overlaid used to say, well, what do you think, Katarina, if you just let your fantasy or your imagination take this information forward.
Looking at it that way, if I were to just say, okay, going on what I know and what I
feel, goodness, why are they here and all the things that I have seen them doing, it
doesn't make a lot of sense that if you are coming to a planet to really help the planet,
to help the people of the planet, that you would keep so much information from them and
that you would play so many games with them.
Yes.
So the lack of their willingness to be open and honest with us is not a real positive thing.
It leads me to believe that they are hiding or withholding information.
That's not necessarily for our good.
On the other hand, if there's some catastrophic event that's going to happen that they can't keep from happening, let's say an asteroid is going to hit the planet and there's nothing they can do about it.
Generally, when we have large asteroid strikes, that pretty much wipes out everything.
Then, you know, if I were an alien race of, you know, perhaps scientists, just some of these beings are, I'd probably want to salvage what life I thought was important, or what life I thought I could manipulate into being what I wanted it to be.
You feel something like that is on the way?
I think it's possible.
Yeah.
Alright, why?
I would definitely, I mean, look what we're doing.
We're manipulating the genetic code of other plants and animals, and This is nothing new for us.
Soon humans.
Why are so many aliens here at this time in history, do you think?
I guess that goes to the answer you just gave.
You think something is about to happen.
Well, I think something is going to happen, yeah.
Whether it's a man-made catastrophe or if it's an asteroid followed by enormous geologic repercussions, which is what's going to happen if we have a large enough asteroid.
I'm not talking about this because Without Warning was on last weekend.
This is something I published in my book in March, way before the movie came out.
I think that you would want to take samples and representations of the life on that planet and perhaps Put it back in a million years in some other form or put it on another planet or in a laboratory for that matter.
Back when I really didn't know anything about abductions except that I was involved and oh my God I've got to figure this out.
Back in 1987, or early 88, I remember it was in this different house, it was early 88, was, well, gee, this must be what the Rapture's all about.
You know, how else can you get human bodies off the planet without any trace?
You know, you beam them up.
I hate that phrase, it is so Star Trek-y.
When you can move bodies in white light and blue light, when you can move physical objects
and change physical objects and change the molecular structure of people and objects,
which apparently these beings can do, to me back in 1988 I thought that would explain
the rapture, that scenario.
With all the different pieces of information that people are getting and the different
forms it is coming through, whether it be a classical abduction, experiencer case or
channeled information, we are all getting a piece of this puzzle, whatever you want
to call it.
It leads everybody, I mean it is all leading to the direction that some big event is going
I'm not going to say it's going to happen in the year 2000, but it, you know, I think it's going to happen in my lifetime.
I'm 34 years old, and I think that in my lifetime, I'm going to see a heck of a lot more changes than what I've seen so far.
All right, Katarina, on the toll-free line, you are on the air.
Good evening.
Hi, Art, Jim and St.
Louis.
Jim and St.
Louis, yes.
Hi, Jim.
Katerina, I've got a theory for you and I'm going to run it by you and I'd like for you to tell me what you think.
I recently got done reading a book by George C. Andrews in which there were, at many different times and places, law enforcement officials were baffled by outbreaks of waves of like a child And I don't mean UFO type thing.
I mean, they say that statistically there are just not enough clever kidnappers to account for all of the massive numbers of people that are abducted and never come back worldwide.
All the missing people.
Do you have any opinion as to whether some of these many thousands and thousands of people Yeah, it is.
are missing could be taken up and just never returned.
It's a good point, Katerina.
Yeah, it is. It's a good question.
I think some of the people that have disappeared may be abductees that were not returned.
I think many of the children and adolescents that are disappearing are probably done by a family member and, you know, we're going to find them one day.
Um, and unfortunately I think there is another percentage that, that have been murdered.
Yeah.
Hello, I know.
Bring him back.
Yeah, I think that's happening.
I think that accounts for some of the missing people, but certainly not all of them.
I'm going to kind of add up a lot of questions that S in Santa Barbara has here and simply ask you, have you ever wondered, Katerina, whether you might be an alien?
Well, yes.
Gee.
I'm going to get kicked out of Mufon for that one.
Actually I have, especially back in 1988, I told my mother that I really thought there
might be something to Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker's abduction experience in Mississippi,
which was back when she didn't know anything about my involvement.
This was my way of breaking the subject to her.
I said, you know, what other people are finding out is that there is some kind of interest
in our reproductive behavior by the aliens, that they seem interested in our reproductive
aspect.
My mother just out of the blue blurted out, well your father was an alien.
Your father was probably an alien.
I guess 30 seconds went by before either one of us said anything and I was thinking, why
the hell did you say alien?
Alien is not in her vocabulary.
She has never said that word in her life.
I have since that time wondered what on earth they could be interested in me for.
And that's something, you know, when you're looking at genetics and the unusual pregnancy my mother had with me, you know, I wonder if... Unusual, Katerina, in what way?
Well, she was pregnant and she had it confirmed.
She went in to see her doctor, you know, examinations and everything.
Um, and in her, in her third month, uh, early fourth month, um, she went to the doctor and, um, lo and behold, there's nothing there.
She's not pregnant anymore.
She didn't have a miscarriage.
Really?
Um, and so she thought, well, that's odd.
But, um, my mother just was one of those women that didn't question doctors.
I don't know how many women really questioned doctors, um, 30, 40 years ago.
So a few, oh I can't remember, one or two months later you know she goes back thinking she's pregnant.
He examines her and she is pregnant and she's well into her pregnancy.
I think she was again about three months pregnant.
That is odd.
And of course my mother was hysterical at this point because For some reason, she told the doctor, she said, I don't know why, but I was hysterical, I was crying, and I told the doctor that that baby, you know, if it survived in the first place, would never be normal.
It would just never be a normal baby.
And he kept assuring me that everything would be okay, and that baby was born, and that baby was me.
But, somehow, very deep inside, and a very emotional mother, didn't believe that that baby would ever be born normal.
Jim, I'm glad I asked the question, so... So, I mean, I, you know, personally, yeah, I wonder, is there some part of me that's not human?
And, you know, I just don't know.
I have, you know, I don't know.
You would think that the doctors, the blood typing, and, you know... Well, as a follow-up comment, Katarina, maybe that accounts for your attitude about all this.
Perhaps, yeah.
Maybe that's something they've told me, you know, that maybe they've told me that I'm not all human or I'm part of them and maybe there's a part of me that believes that or knows that somehow.
Well, I mean, what about that baby they told you was yours?
That probably I believe more than anything.
My mother doesn't make stuff up like that.
She doesn't know enough about Well, no, I meant... Medicine, to be able to make up a storyline.
No, no, Katerina, I meant the... About my father?
No, Katerina, the black child that you saw.
Oh, the black child.
Yes.
Well, I've seen a lot of children, several... Well, two I know were mine, I recognize, and they recognize me, and they weren't completely human children, but...
Yeah, I don't know.
I think that... So then, Katerina, you've been a surrogate mother for aliens three times.
At least.
I think it's more like seven times.
Seven times?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, and there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about those children.
And my fantasy about that, if anybody wants to know, is that one day I'll open my door and they're going to be standing there and they're going to live with me.
You know, that I'm going to be able to be with them.
Or at least one of them.
Alright, listen, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Katerina Wilson.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello, where are you, sir?
Portland.
Portland, okay.
I'd like to ask your guest about two recent guests on your show, Carla Turner and Leah Haley.
Yes.
And a follow-up question, what does she think about what the government knows about this agenda, and what is their part And the intimidation, harassment, and even abduction of abductees.
Alright, thank you.
What about that?
Well, that's an interesting question.
If you want to talk about being horrified about being abducted by somebody, let's say how would we all feel if we were abducted by our government?
You know are members of the military so this is a subject that yes Carla Turner has written about and Leah Haley has
written About and I have written about we have all seen
Military government people in our experiences in our abduction experience. What have you seen I've seen
People that I thought a couple of men that I somehow knew were with the CIA
I'm...
I've been in underground bases where they told me they were with the secret government that was above the President of the United States.
I've seen men in Navy uniforms, Marine uniforms, Army uniforms.
You know?
That's a lot.
I've seen military bases.
I've watched Unusual Craft, Fly, Hover.
All of this is detailed in your book, right?
Right, right.
I have over the 32 year time frame that the book covers, there's 119 experiences and out of those, there are 14 that involve military government aspects.
And how do I feel about it?
Yes.
Well, gee, I am asking myself, did the radiation experiments ever end?
Did that aspect of our government ever stop doing what it was doing to people?
I mean, the Tuskegee Institute experimented on black men.
They let them die so they could study syphilis.
We gave radiation tablets to infants.
I mean, to me, if you can experiment on an infant, anything goes.
So, I mean, I'm certainly fair game.
And I ask myself, did these experiments stop?
Is this part of a continuation of what Marchetti and Marx talk about, the Manchurian Candidate, or the Cult of Intelligence, the book about the CIA, the CIA and the Cult of Intelligence.
I mean, we experiment on humans just like everybody else.
Alright, The Caller also asked about a couple of my recent guests, Carla Turner and Leah Haley.
Do you know them?
Oh yeah, mm-hmm.
What was the, let's see, relating to the military government aspect?
Well, they both told stories.
Right, and I know Carla's husband, Casey, had described in detail about an experience that occurred in an underground base with the military, I think.
Do you know where any of these underground bases actually are?
Well, one of them, in the experience, I knew I was in Eastern Canada.
Near the border of the United States in Eastern Canada.
And that was an underground facility.
That was the one with the supposedly secret government.
How did you know that?
I'd been there before.
Oh.
I mean, as I was walking toward it, I remembered being there before and knew I was in Eastern Canada.
Okay.
And knew that I'd been in the underground base before.
And you know, I've been told that there is a secret underground military base there, but this was just by somebody whose brother was working there, and he, you know, couldn't even tell me the name of it.
Okay, back to the telephone lines, and on the wildcard line, you're on the air with Katarina Wilson, hi.
Hi, this is Patty from Aloha, Oregon.
Hi.
Gosh, of all the guests that I've heard, nothing personal, young lady, but your listening to me gives me a very uneasy feeling, and I would just like to bring up the point about free will.
I think as human beings, our most precious gift is the gift of free will, and it seems like the alien influence and encounters are taking away this precious gift.
It gives me an uneasy feeling.
There was a Twilight Zone episode about 20 years ago in which the aliens landed on Earth.
There were some people that reacted violently, but most people were very accepting.
They said, well, we're here to serve man.
We're here to serve man.
They left behind the cookbook.
No one could translate it.
One man did and everyone had left and it turned out to be a cookbook.
I can't get that image out of my mind.
The only other comment I'd like you to touch on is you keep using what humans do as if it was a justification.
Will we do experiments on animals?
Will we do this?
Will we do genetics?
If that were an excuse, if that made it right, if it's abhorrent for humans to do it, why isn't it abhorrent for aliens to do it?
I'll get off the air and listen to your answer.
Thank you very much.
Well, I don't think it's good for aliens to experiment on people.
I'm not saying because humans experiment on others that it's okay for aliens to experiment on us.
I'm just saying that If you were visiting a planet and studying the beings or people on that planet, you're going to look at their behavior towards the other species on their planet and all I'm saying when I bring that up is
As far as the alien to human, human to other species, is that I'm just glad that I'm not being as treated as badly as I could be treated.
I'm not saying I'm enjoying what they're doing, I'm not.
Katarina, I almost share her feeling of unease about the way you presented this, and I think I now know why.
It's as though you're talking to us, human beings, as though you are yourself a third party.
Have you noticed that's the way you present so many things as though...
Well, that is what I feel my role is, my involvement in all of this.
And that's the one thing I'm pretty darn sure of is that, you know, I feel like I'm supposed to be some kind of
spokesperson or an educator and I try to remain neutral and I try to present both sides
of, you know, whatever of the information that I have.
I try to do it in a neutral way.
I can get all upset and hate the aliens.
And still a lot of fear and negativity in everybody, but I don't see that as being very productive.
Now, as far as the government goes, I'm not by any means saying that it's okay for the government to do what they did and what I'm speculating they might be doing now.
All right, Katarina, hold that thought.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
We'll be right back.
Katarina Wilson is my guest, and when I meant as a third party, Katarina, you might think about this as we come back from the break.
I meant as a non-human third party.
We'll be back.
This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program.
From the Kingdom of Nine, you're hearing Greenland with Art Bell.
To participate in the program, call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
1-800-618-8255.
First-time callers, area code 702-727-1222.
Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
1-800-618-8255. First time callers, area code 702-727-1222 or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
This is the CBC Radio Network.
It is, and we're interviewing Katarina Wilson this evening.
Very, very interesting guest.
And this is beginning to head in a direction that is particularly fascinating.
We'll get back to her.
In just a moment.
First, uh, a word.
Okay, back now to Katerina Wilson.
And, uh, Katerina, I've got another fax here for you.
Dear Art, please ask your guest, Katerina, what happened to the life force of the five-year-old whose body was taken over by the Grey?
Was the child a hybrid without a soul?
Are all of these babies without souls?
Also, I can't help but ask about the black child who was supposedly hers and her fiancé's.
Has she seen it again?
And what are your feelings toward that child?
Well, that's a lot of questions.
Was the child a hybrid, do you think, without a soul?
No.
My personal opinion about life is that if there's a life, there's a soul.
To me, the gray was a live gray with a life force.
The little child was alive.
He had a life force.
It was almost like a sharing or like the gray was contributing his life force.
And there were, it made the blonde, the little kid, the blonde haired boy more than what
he was before.
Like he had more energy.
He was more of a whatever, you know, a person if you want to say.
But it wasn't, I did feel that the gray's body then did not have a life to it.
That that soul was gone.
The life force was gone.
Right, that the Grey died because of that.
Alright, with reference to that child which you said was yours, she asked, did you ever notice any subtle changes in your body or was that a test tube baby from start to finish?
My experience is most of this genetic manipulation, the pregnancies are artificially created.
I did have an experience during which they told me that my baby was in the spindle phase, which is during the initial stages of cell proliferation.
When the cell splits during mitosis.
Yes.
Now that happens hours after the sperm and egg meet.
And this is not something, I mean, we can do this, we can watch this.
I mean, if you've watched The Learning Channel, you've seen this under a microscope.
But, you know, we can't determine that somebody's pregnant that early on.
You know, our tests just don't show that.
But they are able, they can tell when it's in the spindle phase.
So, I mention this in the book, I think that they can artificially inseminate and remove before a woman will even know she's pregnant.
From Santa Barbara, why would a person not want to remember that they were a member, they were a member, of an alien race?
Hmm.
Did I say that?
I don't know.
No, it's just... I have no idea why somebody wouldn't want to remember if they were a member of an alien race or not.
I don't know.
I think it would be an individual decision.
I mean, some people might, some people might not.
Alright, well again, I noticed, Katarina, that the way you're approaching all this is almost from a third-party point of view, almost from an alien point of view, almost as if to say to the audience, don't worry about all this, your attitude says don't worry about this, or that it's alright.
I'm not saying it's alright, and I don't mean to imply that I'm saying what's happening is okay, but I don't want people to expect me to be, because I'm a woman and I'm an advocate, I am not going to view myself as a victim.
And if people don't like my presentation or are uncomfortable with the neutrality of that, That's because they're trying to place me in a category where, oh, it should be poor Katerina, all she's been through.
Yeah, I went through that and I'm really glad I'm not there anymore because it's not fun to wallow around in self-pity.
I'm an abdictee.
I'm having experiences.
I know I have free will.
I'm not a weak willed person because I'm being abducted.
You know, I'm trying to present the information.
I'm not going to get emotional about it, because that doesn't do anybody any good, and I don't want people to view me as a victim, and I don't want people to feel sorry for me.
And that's my presentation.
I've been there.
I'm not going to go back.
All right, good enough.
Toll-free line, you're on the air with Katarina Wilson.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
This is Tom in Seattle.
Hello, Tom.
I have a couple of questions for Katarina.
Sure.
Number one, what did the life force of the alien that went into the child look like?
You said you saw it.
And number two, I heard a UFO speaker Uh, present a theory that the Greys are here to, um, they had done something that had, they'd lost their emotions and that they needed to, uh, hybrid with us to get this emotional capacity restored to them.
All right.
That was their purpose.
Catarina?
Okay.
The life force, um, Gee, I can only describe it as the way I would know that a male alien is a male, a female alien is a female.
You know, it's an inner knowing what's going on, but also it was like I saw I don't know.
I don't want to say it's a light, but more of just an energy going from the gray into the little boy.
And that's the best way I can describe that.
You know, I know that you present that in a positive way, but again, I find it kind of chilling because it... Well, yeah, I don't... I'm not really sure that it's positive.
I'm saying I was deeply hurt and depressed the next day.
I mean, I was on the phone with my abductee buddy here in Portland and I was telling her about it and how... I know, but your emotions were for the gray, as I recall, right?
You were sorry for the gray?
Well, yeah, I mean, the little boy was fine.
He went off and started playing.
Yeah, he teleported himself, picked up a little ball, threw it through a little circular hoop-like thing, like maybe a basketball-type thing, and he just went in the playroom and started playing with his toys.
He was fine.
He was happy.
He was strengthened.
And the gray was gone?
And the gray was an empty shell.
Okay.
And I saw it as kind of a sacrifice, but how do we know, you know, on the other hand, that the gray doesn't have now a better body?
And maybe the little boy agreed to share his body.
I don't know.
I don't look at that as possession.
I know some people might, but the little boy was fine.
He was strong and healthy and went on to play.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Katerina Wilson.
Hi.
Hi, this is Al.
Let me turn my radio down.
Alright, thank you.
Where are you calling from, sir?
I'm calling from San Diego, California.
Alright, Kogo, go ahead.
Yeah, I was just wondering, I'm not one to blaspheme or anything like that, but I was considering a lot of different references in the Bible to alien presences and stuff like that.
And?
I'm referring to angels.
Uh-huh.
As far as the angel descended from the sky.
Oh yes, there have been such references.
Yeah, it is an interesting question, Katarina.
Do you think the references in the Bible, and there have been many that people interpret that way anyway, are referring to the aliens?
I think that...
The most important term, the most important phrase that we need to mention here is a human being's interpretation.
I believe that there is a possibility that some of the human beings interpreted an alien as an angel.
I also think that there is a good chance that angels are angels and so yes, I think maybe in the Bible of angels might have been an extraterrestrial
being.
Some of the extraterrestrial beings we're hearing about, you know, light beings, white robes, floating, they're
surrounded by white light.
They come and they speak about God and the God force and wonderful positive messages.
Who's to say that's not an angel?
You know, and we're calling them extraterrestrial, so I don't know.
You know, I'm not a scholar of the Bible, so I think that there is, you know, human interpretation.
All right.
On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Katerina Wilson.
Hi.
Hi.
What can you tell us about Missing Time?
All right.
Yes, thank you.
I'm glad you brought that back up.
Where are you calling from, please?
San Diego.
San Diego.
Missing Time.
Well, missing time is a phenomenon that's often associated with an abduction.
Generally, you know, people will be going about their normal activities and will suddenly realize an hour or two, sometimes more, has passed and it only feels like a minute, you know, has gone by.
And a lot of times there's just no memory.
You know, you're washing dishes at the sink, it's one o'clock and all of a sudden you're standing at the sink and there are the dishes and it's four o'clock and you have no memory.
Some people have memory of, you know, being with aliens and on their craft and Um, but that's kind of it in a nutshell.
Um, I asked somebody here in Portland, a friend of mine, um, who, you know, I let the last thing I would expect him to say is that he's involved in this.
And I said, well, you know, have you ever been doing something, um, you know, driving along or, you know, working in your house or something.
And then all of a sudden notice that a lot of time went by that you couldn't account for.
And just out of the blue, I mean, this person just about broke down into tears and started talking about, well, I was at this flashing yellow light and I was going to turn right.
And I was at a flashing yellow light and the next thing I know I'm on Mount St.
Helens in my car, you know, up at the Visitor Center.
That would bring a person to tears.
He broke down.
Sure.
And I had no idea this person had anything like this.
I mean, I don't even recall why I asked him the questions.
That's an example.
To know that you're missing hours out of your day can be upsetting.
For a lot of people it's, oh gee, that's odd.
They go about doing what they were doing and maybe 20 years later it gets upsetting.
Then they, for some reason, you know, they put two and two together, they remember something they didn't remember before, and they go, oh my God, that didn't make sense.
Where did those five hours go?
Or two hours or something?
Interestingly, Katerina, a lot of the best researchers in ufology Uh, for years and years, researched and looked into sightings.
They finally, most of them, became satisfied.
The sightings were real.
The craft really were here.
Now they have turned to people like you as the best avenue, they say, of continued research.
Abductees.
Do you agree with that?
Well, I think we're a logical resource for information.
Now, with the kinds of experiences where you have your classical abduction case, you have teaching dreams, you have visions, theatrical scenarios, teaching dreams, you know, those kinds of things going on.
I have always thought that it's important to look at all of those, not just on-the-table examinations.
And so I think that you can learn a lot about the alien psychology and perhaps learn more about what they're up to by looking at these other kinds of experiences.
During all of these examinations, probes, pregnancies, or just removal of all of them, have they hurt you?
Physically?
They hurt me physically and they hurt me mentally.
The physical pain, as any woman who's born a child will tell you, passes.
And it does.
I don't enjoy physical pain.
I have gotten out of bed and fallen to the floor because I couldn't walk.
I've had blood on my sheets.
I've had puncture wounds in my body.
That doesn't feel good, but it heals.
I think the hardest thing is the mental wounds, you know, the anxiety, the constant anxiety.
Okay, I know they're going to come back.
When is it going to be?
You cannot focus on that.
You cannot keep focusing on the what if, you know, what if, what if, I'm scared, I'm frightened,
yeah, but you have to get beyond that or you're never going to have a life.
I mean, we have a life here.
here, we have a right to live our lives, you know, the best we can, even though all this
other stuff is going on.
And the people that are successful at getting beyond that, like myself and a lot of other
people, shouldn't be blamed or looked upon with suspicion because we've gotten through
it.
You know, we should, I think we should, you know, be commended for our strength and that
we're willing to move on and willing to share our information.
Have you been abducted since your book?
Yes.
Yeah.
How frequent is it?
Oh, I would say...
Once a month, sometimes more, maybe two or three months without something.
And then, you know, abductions aren't always, I mean, they're not regular.
You can have an abduction every night for four days, five nights or something.
And then you may not have one for three months or a year.
I don't go as long as a year.
I think the longest I've gone is, you know, since 1987 is about four months.
What have you tried to do to prevent it?
I have, um...
I pray every day, which is not something I did prior to 1987.
I believe in a God force and when I feel low, when I feel down or I'm just tired of it, I pray.
I focus on the creative force.
You know, although I want the truth and I know that the truth might be painful, there are times when I'm tired of the deception and I know I have free will and I don't give them permission.
You know, I don't lie in bed at night and say, OK, come get me.
I'm in the mood.
I don't do that.
You know, that's not how it works.
And I do want the truth.
And, you know, I don't know in the end what is really going to take place.
I guess none of us know that.
Goodness, you know, I'd certainly tell everybody.
I want to, before the show ends, I want to be able to give out my address.
By all means.
Go ahead and do it now.
Yeah, let me do that.
If anybody is interested in the book and you want an autographed copy, of course you can get it at Barnes & Noble at Christmas.
It should be available.
But it's Puzzle Publishing and it's P.O.
Box 2300 And that's Portland, Oregon.
And the zip code is 97281-0023.
And postpaid, the book's $26.95, and I'll be happy to sign it for you.
Also, if you have any questions or comments, please feel free to write.
Okay, give the address again, please.
Oh, PO Box 230023, Portland, Oregon 97281- And you'll autograph a copy?
Oh, P.O.
Sure.
Autograph all my books.
Except for the ones that go into the bookstore.
Those orders are kind of big.
Alright, so if they want an autographed copy, they're going to need to send... Yeah, $26.95.
Alright, post office box 2-3-0-0-2-3.
Right.
Right, post office box 230023, Portland, Oregon 97...
Right.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
Alright, well, I very much have enjoyed having you here, Katarina.
You've been a very unusual and different kind of interview as an abductee.
You have a very different attitude.
Has anybody ever told you that?
I am told that most often after I present lectures and things I get a lot of mail, a lot of people.
Actually, just about.
Well, everybody's always complimentary.
They like my presentation.
They appreciate the fact that I haven't tried to scare them.
That I am, you know, I try to remain neutral.
But, you know, of course, tonight we heard a little, some other attitude.
No, it isn't interesting.
No, I think it's a very interesting...
I think people are used to viewing... We're in an age of victimization.
I mean, my God, you've never seen anything like that, you know, before.
I mean, the 90s are the decade of victimization.
Well, don't be one, Katerina.
We've got to go.
Okay, okay.
Well, I want to say thank you, and it's been an honor to be able to share my information with everybody.
Thank you so much for having me on Dreamland.
Thank you, Katerina.
You take care.
Okay.
All right.
That's going to do it, everybody.
We are absolutely out of time.
It has been, as always, a great pleasure.
I would like to tell you to order a copy of this program.
It was a very interesting program.
Or any Dreamland program we do.
Or to order a copy of our newsletter with your Visa and MasterCard.
Please call 1-800-917-4278.
Let me give that number one more time, it's our new tape number, and for the newsletter as well, it's 1-800-917-4278.
This has been Dreamland, a very different and unusual kind of program, and we will continue in this same vein with another guest next week, and I'll be promoing that guest on my My weekday show, beginning Monday night, Tuesday morning, through Friday night, Saturday morning, called Coast to Coast AM.
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