Katarina Wilson, abductee and author of The Alien Jigsaw, recounts 32 years of documented encounters—over 100 cases—starting at age six, including hybrid beings, scar examinations, and a black infant in a glass box linked to her and fiancé Eric. Her research ties abductions to menstrual cycles, with "gray" entities varying in size and purpose, some non-hostile despite terrifying removal methods. Military sightings like John T. Vasquez’s 1977 Fort Benning incident, where 1,200 soldiers were paralyzed by light beams, suggest broader patterns, possibly involving government experiments. Wilson’s neutral approach contrasts with fear-mongering, framing abductions as unexplained phenomena rather than definitive proof of alien motives, leaving open questions about free will and humanity’s role in cosmic energy exchanges. [Automatically generated summary]
Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.
Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not matched, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see.
This is Dreamland.
It is Sunday evening, indeed.
It is once again Dreamland, and I think you're going to love our guest this morning.
She is Katerina Wilson.
She is an abductee.
She has written a book called The Alien Jigsaw.
And I think you'll find this absolutely fascinating.
As usual, with us in the very first portion of the show is Linda Howe this morning, or this evening rather, all the way from Philadelphia.
Her home, where she'll be reporting on who knows what, but something that has something to do with one of the two subjects that we discuss.
All the way to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania now, and Linda Howe.
Last week, I interviewed a woman in Alturas, California about strange craft and beams of light that she and others have seen in that wilderness area not far from the Oregon and Nevada borders.
Four people there have also seen triangle-shaped craft appear to send light beams between each other.
And at the end of my Dreamland segment last week, I asked people to write me about any information they have about government interactions with UFOs that might give more information about the question of a possible secret conflict with some kind of off-planet intelligence.
One source that emerged this week is a man from the Navajo American Indian Nation who joined the United States Regular Army on July 27, 1977 when he was 23 years old.
His name is John T. Vasquez, and I think you've had him on another one of your programs, Art, but I don't think that his story has been shared on Dreamland.
He was first assigned to Echo Company, 1st Advanced Infantry Training Battalion in the 1st Infantry at Fort Benning, Georgia, near Columbus, Georgia, which is south of Atlanta on the Alabama border.
The commander of Fort Benning in September 1977 was Major General William J. Livesey, Jr.
By September 1, 1977, John Vasquez was shifted to Delta Company in the 1st Battalion, 1st Infantry.
The next day on Friday, September 2, 1977, at 7.30 p.m. in the evening, there was a mandatory formation of the 1,200 men in the 1st Battalion where company commanders planned to introduce themselves and their staff.
All 1,200 men were outside in their companies in formation under a clear night sky when someone yelled to look up.
John Vasquez saw a light that looked like a star moving in a zigzag motion.
Then he saw some of the men start running away out of formation and saw a light coming closer to the ground.
This is John Vasquez now speaking in his own first-hand eyewitness testimony about what happened next.
And by this time, it was already coming down to Charlie Company, and it was just this one ball of light, and it was about 15 feet in the air, or maybe 10.
And I didn't know what that thing was.
I thought it was still a truck or a cheap.
And when I pulled myself backwards, I looked up at the guy who was in front of me, and he was standing there asleep with his head bowed.
Yeah, he had his eyes closed, and his head was partially bowed, and he was standing there asleep.
And I screamed, I know I screamed, wake up out loud, real out loud, and he wouldn't.
And by this time, my friend, or my buddy who was standing to my left, had turned around and he was, whatever he was looking at, he was looking at kind of sort of straight up.
And his face was all pale.
And his eyes were like fishbowls and like he had his jaw open.
And I was looking at him with like something was draining through out of him, like he was in a kind of a trance look.
So I shook him violently.
I shook him real hard, and I told him, don't look, don't look.
And when he came to, he was saying, what's going on?
And I just told him, just take cover, just take cover.
And we started to run.
And by this time, this ball of light, huge ball of light, just showed up to the first building in front of us.
And it was so bright, it silhouetted all the frames of glass.
And the scenes of the buildings, you could see it.
It was that bright.
And it was in the other side of this first building, and it was coming around this building.
And at this time, we saw the four people that was underneath the building, the first building.
And we started screaming for them to tell us what was going on.
I know we were screaming out loud for that same guy who just talked to us, but there were only four of them underneath there, and they were all out, lying there, just out.
And the implication, of course, is that these 1,200 men at Fort Benning on September 2nd, 1977 were affected by a light in what may be categorized as some kind of a multiple abduction encounter that involved telepathic communication, paralysis, people being knocked out of their consciousness.
And eventually, John Vasquez found himself standing again with all the other men in his Delta company formation.
They all reported that they were nauseous and disoriented, the men around him, and no one knew the exact time because when he and three of the other men looked at their wristwatches, they all had different times.
Mysteriously, by the next day, most everyone seemed to have forgotten the details of that night.
But on September 16th, 22nd, and 29th, John Vasquez was entered into the Martin Army Hospital at Fort Benning for physical therapy to relieve severe muscle spasms.
His medical record stated that John Vasquez's assignment was D1.1, which was Delta Company 1st Battalion, 1st Infantry.
Then he was shipped off to Germany in October 1977 and had no further memory of the September 2 events until he started having nightmares in 1989.
In the last five years, he has filed dozens of FOIA requests for his Delta Company Army records.
To date, every reply states there was no Delta Company and no John Vasquez at Fort Benning, Georgia in September 1977.
He is a frustrated man and is now trying to find anyone else who was in Delta Company, 1st Battalion, 1st Infantry, on September 2, 1977 at Fort Benning, Georgia.
Anyone with any information about this, please contact me, Linda Howe, at Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, zip code 19006.
And as a further footnote to this, Art.
It's interesting that I have confidentially heard a similar story taking place in a large United States corporation around 1989 that has never been reported.
Linda, Mr. Osquez also did receive some Freedom of Information request documents that seemed to indicate that the government was just about admitting UFOs.
I don't know whether he shared any of that with you.
Yes, he did, and I'm going to get a package of this material, and I hope to really go much further in the investigation of this and do more reporting about other aspects of this case that he and I have discussed.
But I feel that this is an indication that something is happening in the sense that other military and civilians have reported either a multi, this is large, 1,200 men, some cases smaller units,
where they've encountered some kind of a light, something has happened that was dramatic, and then they appear to lose memory, which they then recover later on in a variety of different dramatic ways, whether it's nightmares or some sort of other memory flash.
And the fact that this kind of event may have affected 1,200 people, it seems to me that somewhere out there there may be at least another one or two who might have their memory spurred even from these small excerpts tonight.
Is there any possibility that John Vasquez will be regressed hypnotically, or is there any further research that's going to be done into his memory of this?
There is one investigator who has done some limited hypnosis on his case.
And we were talking tonight about how we might go further.
I don't think at this point it's clear how to best proceed.
He feels that he wants to see, first of all, if he can find somebody else from his company.
He insists and has the medical records to prove that even if somebody is trying to expunge now from the record the existence of a Delta company, that his medical records alone prove that he was in Delta company, and he is hoping he can find somebody else out there who will come forward.
And just for the record, one more time, whether it's for your books or tapes, or it's to contact you with information, why don't you give your address and your phone number if you wish?
It is post office box 538, and the address city is Huntingdon Valley, two words, H-U-N-T-I-N-G, D is in DOG O-N, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania.
And the zip code is 19006.
And I think I will, I like getting the letters more even than phone calls one way or the other because the letters that our dreamland audience are sending me have some of the most valuable information that I have been seeing in the last 15 years.
And I encourage everyone out there to contact me because I will keep everything confidential that you want confidential and anonymous if you want it anonymous.
But it does help us trying to understand this bigger truth of what is happening on our planet.
A roving investigator, I might add, all over the country, all the time, sometimes Europe, wherever the action happens to be.
In a moment, Katerina Wilson, you've heard in 1987, Katerina Wilson read her first book on the UFO phenomenon titled Intruders, The Incredible Visitations at Copley Woods by Bud Hopkins.
Her memories prompted her to fill out the Omni magazine questionnaire titled Hidden Memories, Are You an Abductee?
In response to the questionnaire and other information, Bud Hopkins contacted her, had a telephone interview with her, followed by subsequent investigation and regressive hypnosis sessions in 1988.
This was followed by an investigation by MUFON investigator Vicki Lyons.
Shortly thereafter, she began working with Dan C. Overlaid, a Ph.D. He was a clinical psychologist with over 30 years experience and a MUFON consultant who'd also worked with several other abductees in the area.
Katarina Wilson has undergone both physiological and psychological examinations with no abnormalities found to account for her memories of her abduction experiences.
The book is called Alien Jigsaw, her book.
It is a chronicle of the first 32 years of Katarina Wilson's life, an average American woman and an alien abductee, not so average.
This is the story of a woman's search for answers, of adjusting to changing realities, and of ultimately achieving success over an overwhelming phenomenon.
In her quest, Katarina has, I believe, interviewed or investigated over 100, repeat over 100 additional abduction cases.
And in a moment, Katarina Wilson.
If you'd like to call us, you're welcome to do it.
We'll get the telephone lines open just as soon as humanly possible, but we want to get Katarina's story out.
So coming up, right after the break, abductee, author, Katarina Wilson.
You're listening to Dreamland on the CBC Radio Network.
unidentified
With your calls to Dreamland with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine.
Actually, I had quite a bit of memory since the time I was six years old.
And I managed to kind of put things on the back shelf as they would occur.
At first, when I was six, I used to think, well, these unusual things that were being done to me had to be happening because God was making them happen.
You know, as a six-year-old, that's pretty much where I put it.
We went to church every Sunday, but I never really connected as a child or a teenager with the religious community, although my mother, you know, made sure that all three of us went to Sunday school every Sunday, and we were confirmed through the Lutheran Church.
But as a child, and of course, you know, aliens don't exist, so the only other person that could float you outside and paralyze you and telepathically communicate with you was God.
So that's kind of how it started for me.
And then I had, throughout my childhood and adolescence, I had occurrences of missing time and unusual memories again.
And I don't know.
I guess, you know, you just learn how to deal with that and adapt, and you put it on the back burner because you've got other things in life you need to deal with.
And I think for me, what happened was I had so many conscious memories that after a certain amount of time, there was nowhere else to go with.
And I could, you know, you can only bury so much in your life, and pretty soon it just starts to bubble up.
Kind of like the Vasquez story that Linda told about.
At some point in your life, even though it's perfectly hidden, it seems to start bubbling up many times with kind of dire consequences psychologically.
Well, I would say in 1983, when I started keeping my journal, I had some pretty serious events happen, and I felt like I had to get them out, so I started writing them down.
I also had some serious anxiety starting to develop, and that started in 83, and then by about 86, it had reached a point where I convinced my fiancé, Eric, to nail all the windows shut in the house.
And I had all my cats in an enclosure, and inside the house, they couldn't run free anymore.
Well, I would, well, not really in the woods, but we had woods behind our house.
We had a huge backyard.
And I would be outside at night, you know, silly Katarina, you know, midnight to 2 a.m. going, gee, where are you?
You know, I'm expecting to see aliens, although at that time I wasn't quite sure what they would look like.
And so that was 86.
In 87, I was in a bookstore, and, you know, I picked up this crazy book about UFOs called Intruders, and I started reading it, and my God, you know, it was like reading a story about myself.
Well, I was constantly, I don't know, I was constantly looking up, expecting to see a UFO.
I had had a sighting when I was 16.
I had had a pretty clear sighting of three hamburger-shaped craft.
They were silver with yellow, red, and blue lights around the midsection.
My mother, my brother, the people I was babysitting for, and several of the children in my cul-de-sac that I lived, you know, the street I lived on, they were all outside.
And it was very late between midnight and 2 a.m. again, and we had the sighting.
And the interesting part about that is at the end of the sighting, I mean, to me it lasted 45 minutes.
I was the only one out there at the end.
At the beginning, we were all out there together.
And my feeling when I saw them was a confirmation of familiarity.
It was like I had always known about them.
And, you know, at 16, of course, I told my friends in high school, and they ridiculed me and laughed at me.
And I learned not to talk about those kind of things.
So I buried that for another decade.
And so at 16, you know, so here I am at 26, I'm thinking, well, I know they exist.
And I know they're up there.
I kept looking up, and I just had like a free-floating anxiety, a fear of something out there that was going to come in and get me and hurt my cats and me.
And I was having, you know, I was aware of the recurring type dreams I was having and the memories.
You know, I'd walk up to a wall and think, gee, you know, I know I could go through this if I just could remember how to do it.
And I actually gave the book to my fiancé and said, you know, I want you to read this.
And I just kind of, you know, put my head down and said, you know, we'll just wait and see.
And he finished it, and we just looked at each other.
We didn't really say anything, but we looked at each other, and it was kind of a sad, intense moment because we knew without speaking to one another what we needed to do, and that was to look into that.
Yeah, well, I filled out the Omni questionnaire, and I couldn't just say yes or no and circle the answer.
I had to go get my journal and write down all these things that, well, like, you know, for each question, I gave him about five pages, which I think any adductee that goes through this awakening and has somebody finally, for the first time in their life, they can talk to about this, will know exactly what I'm saying when somebody asks you a simple question and you can talk and write, you know, pages and pages about that.
So I ended up having to bind the material I sent him with the questionnaire.
And I literally, I thought, well, this guy, first of all, I don't know who he is.
And second of all, when he gets this, he's going to think I'm nuts.
And my fiancé, husband now, Eric, insisted that I mail this to him.
And I fully expected the men in the white coats to show up at my house and take me away when he got it.
And I remember sending it to his house.
I didn't want to send it through Omni because I didn't want anybody at Omni magazine to read this stuff.
I sent it to his home address.
And then he called a couple of weeks later and conducted a pretty lengthy telephone interview with me and said, well, I'm going to be in town this spring and I'd like to get together with you.
And that's when he did more face-to-face interviewing.
And that's when I wrote that infamous list of good and bad qualities down that he put in the introduction.
I had forgotten all about that, that I'd ever written that down for him.
And we did two regressive hypnosis sessions in a weekend, Friday and Sunday.
And Eric was always present during those.
And not a lot of alien information, well, no alien information really came out in the regressive hypnosis session.
But what he was able to do was to break through some kind of mental barrier that either I, my unconscious mind put up or the beings, alien beings themselves imposed on me not to remember.
And by going through these hypnosis sessions, I was able to look at a couple of areas of my childhood that were questionable, although no alien activity really came out.
He did break through that, and wow, the weeks after that, it was just spontaneous memories.
It was just like somebody had opened a door of a big, filthy, you know, cluttered closet.
And suddenly I opened the door and all this stuff could fall out.
Well, I figured out pretty quickly that, you know, a lot of the memories that I had been holding in and denying, like the childhood experience that, you know, from the best that I can remember to happen when I was six, that, you know, this most likely wasn't God that did this.
but I knew that it was more important than anything in my life.
Seeing like a hybrid, what I call a hybrid type being wearing a white lab coat, telling me that after this little mark on my arm heel, that I'd have a little hole there.
Things like that.
Just unusual people telling you things that really happen.
You know, you'd wake up and they say this is going to happen.
You wake up with this scoop mark scar and there it is.
Well, yeah, what happened was my memory told me that there was a doctor, vague looking face, but definitely humanoid, and he had on a white lab coat, and he had performed something to my arm.
And he said, well, you know, tomorrow, when this heals, You'll have a little hole there.
And I detected a little smile, and I smiled, and I said, Oh, well, that'll be neat.
You know, I was a kid, like eight or nine years old, and I thought that'd be pretty neat to have a little hole in your arm.
And the next day, I had this little scab on my arm, and it healed just very quickly.
And there was like what I described to Bud Hopkins, my scars, he said, do you have any unusual scars?
And I described mine as looking like craters on the moon.
And I said, well, I have these little scars, but mine look like little craters on the moon.
And this is what, you know, the one on my arm looks like.
It's in the photograph in the book.
And what I did the next day, of course, was I wanted to show my mother.
And I went up to my mother and said, oh, look, look, look, look.
Isn't this neat?
And I want you to see this little hole in my arm.
And she wouldn't even look at it.
She became almost hysterical, you know, from my point of view and refused to look at it, kind of threw her arms up and just got away from me as fast as she could.
And perhaps from her response, I spent, oh, and I even try to cover it up today many, many years, you know, 20 years, trying to hide that little scar from people because I was kind of embarrassed for it to be there.
Well, that particular experience, the only part about that one, and that one is not in the book, the photograph is in the book, but the part I remember about that really happened in the house.
It was after I'd come back to the house, and we were facing one another, standing in my den of the house at that time.
But I, you know, can go back, and there is a hybrid being that I call the doctor that I have a picture of in the book that I've seen several times.
He told me he had been visiting me since 1965, which was when I was about five or six years old.
I was born in 1960.
And the crafts, you know, the ones that I see him in are usually very, very large.
You know, some people will call these motherships.
I refer to them in the book sometimes as three-story malls, which is probably why I hate going to the mall.
But again, this particular craft is large.
There's usually a hospital or clinic type portion to the craft, very wide hallways, curved walls.
Sometimes there's slopes, sloping walkways within the craft.
In the hospital-like areas, there are clinical hospital rooms.
Well, actually, he told me it was mine and Eric's baby, which that was what really got me because we're both white, and logically didn't know how we could have a black child.
So I left the room and went walking through this ship to another room.
Which is something I think Forrest Crawford found very interesting that you seem to get to walk around the ship, Katerina, and not everybody gets to do that.
Did you know that?
And I thought, well, no, I'm always walking around the ship because I always, you know, I'm always doing something I'm not supposed to be doing with them.
And I usually leave the room or get irritated with them or something.
And in this case, I got irritated and thought, well, they lost my baby.
You know, I said, well, hospitals are always losing people's babies.
Where did I get that idea?
And so I went to another room, and there was a woman, a human woman lying in a bed, and there was another glass box, two to three feet square.
And she had a child in her box, and I picked him up.
He had blonde, white hair, and I picked him up, and he opened his eyes, and they were gold, golden eyes.
But he seemed to have a neurological problem and was very, very sick.
And of course, I decided, well, he has golden eyes.
He can't be my child.
That was before I really knew what I know about abductions today, and that is that there seems to be a hybridization type program going on where they're mixing, they appear to be mixing different races together.
So while some of the children seem human, others are totally alien and others are in between where they have human and alien characteristics.
She has authored a book called The Alien Jigsaw, just picked up by Barnes and Noble, so you'll be able to get it anywhere, and we're going to find out more about her experiences in just a moment.
I think I may have left some of your listeners hanging.
I was going to say I feel as if I've been told why they're creating these children, but I haven't been allowed to remember it consciously.
I think that there is some holding back of information by the aliens themselves for whatever their purposes are.
But besides the genetic factor, I think that, or maybe because of the genetic factor in the creation of these other beings, babies, beings, I think we have to look at the type of psychological testing they're doing with abductees,
the other types of physiological tests, and perhaps hindrances of maybe creating problems with people, severe medical problems with people, and perhaps even curing other problems.
Some people report being healed of problems that they used to have prior to their experiences or an experience.
Well, even if their intentions are not positive, I don't think we need to be frightened of them.
I think being afraid is only going to hinder our ability to understand what they're doing.
So regardless of whether they're here for good or bad, the first step is not to fear them.
And you're not going to be able to figure out what's going on and understand your experiences if you're consumed with fear.
So I just want to kind of put that out there.
I have seen them do some good things.
I've seen them do bad things.
There are times I feel like I'm just an experimental animal to them.
There are other times that I feel that they love me and they care tremendously for me, like we would care for our own children.
And I've kind of, I guess maybe I'm speculating or I'm just basing on my own experiences here that since I've seen so many different types of beings, they're obviously, you know, they have different agendas.
And I think there are some here that care about us more than others.
And I'm not trying to back out of that question, but that's what I've seen.
You know, there are some very loving, wise, spiritually advanced beings.
And then we have things like animal mutilations going on.
I know.
Any way you look at that, that is not positive.
So, you know, we're having a lot of different types of activity, and I think we have different aliens with different agendas, and we need to figure out, you know, as much as we can about all of them.
They haven't sat me down and said, okay, Katarina, we want you to tell your people this.
I have pretty much had to experience and, you know, sort out, assimilate all the things that have happened to me and tried to figure out what's going on myself.
It's, you know, I am not one of the people that get a lot of answers told to me.
I mean, they don't just sit me down and tell me things.
I have to learn it for myself and figure it out for myself.
I do believe that there is quite a bit of information that I am not remembering consciously that I think that they probably have told me more as to the whys of what they're doing than I'm consciously remembering.
Well, yeah, sometimes, but when you remember so much, it's kind of like, well, you know, let me just deal with all this stuff I'm remembering consciously.
Why, you know, try to stir up any more than I'm ready to deal with right now.
I am pretty confident in the conscious memories I have.
I am pretty darn good at just disseminating what is a screen memory, what was camouflage, what was this theatrical scenario they were doing, and a straightforward abduction.
This was an experiment, this was a test, this was a screen memory, that kind of thing.
I've really learned to discriminate between the different types of experiences.
And then, of course, when you do get the screen memories or you know that you've had an experience and you don't remember anything, that is really frustrating.
And perhaps hypnosis would help there and perhaps not.
My hypnosis sessions with Dan Overlaid revealed some new information, but not a lot, not very much at all.
And we basically rehashed a lot of what I had already written down in my journal because I'd been keeping the journal and it was important for me to document everything I remembered prior to going through hypnosis.
I know that you've done some very interesting work in one rather sensitive area.
I guess if we're going to follow on this business of genetic experimentation, and I know that aliens have been said to collect ovum and sperm and all the rest of it.
And you tried to relate the times when you were abducted, or I suppose when others have been abducted, to your menstrual cycle, didn't you?
Yeah, the part, the research I did in the researcher supplement was because I, well, I was one of these people that had a lot of monthly pain, and it was pretty much debilitating for me.
So there was no doubt in my mind, you know, that I, you know, for my life, my life kind of revolved around either my migraine headaches or this other aspect of being a female.
And so there was a lot of documentation done, you know, with that for medical purposes.
And so it was easy for me to correlate when my experiences would happen as to the time of the month that they would happen.
Well, what I found out, and I didn't run any statistics on this, this is frequencies and percentage information, but what I found out was that during the first eight days after ovulation, I had the highest number of experiences.
And whether it's statistically significant or not, I don't know.
And we won't know until a lot of other women start documenting this type of information.
No, I think this is really, really an interesting aspect to follow because so many people have said it is genetic, and this would be another line of proof.
And the reason I put this very personal information out there was because I wanted to encourage other women to do the same.
They don't have to publish it themselves, but they can certainly share it with their hypnotherapist or whoever they're doing their hypnosis with or any other researchers.
This is the kind of correlational data we need to start out with.
I mean, you need to start with correlational data in order to work towards the...
You know, we don't have the medical community behind us right now.
And until we can get enough of our little pieces of data, you know, together to show them that, hey, we think we have something here.
Will you take a look at it?
That's where I was driving, you know, what I was driving for.
And I still am.
And if anybody's listening and you're a woman and you, you know, are having abduction experiences, that you remember this is so important.
This is one of those little things that we can do not only to help ourselves, but to draw some attention from the medical community or hopefully from some of those MDs on the board of directors that's NUFON, you know, to take a look at this stuff.
Well, I guess I'm not sure where to go from here with you other than to ask you if you can describe any of the beings that you encountered other than the doctor, the one that you described.
Gosh, I have so many illustrations in my book of the ones that I am not an artist, so I have to really see something in order to draw it.
And so I have several different types of hybrids, and I think that we may be hearing more about first, second, third generation hybrid beings in the future from other researchers.
I'm pretty much Sure, that I'm seeing hybrids with very human characteristics and to more alien characteristics.
And I'm speculating that maybe we're having a first, second, and third generation hybrids here that they are becoming more and more like us, maybe, or perhaps so much like us that we can't really distinguish them from them from us.
After, well, you know, and that's not something I say lightly.
It's something that maybe three years ago, if somebody had said this to me, I would have said, no, I don't think it's probable.
But the different types of hybrids I've seen and how human they can look is just, and other people, you know, describing the same types of beings, I think it's probable.
I've seen four different types of beings that I would classify as grays, very short, three-foot-tall, floating, gray-skinned being to a seven-foot-tall gray being with the big head and the big round black eyes.
You know, a gray is not a gray is a gray.
There are different types of grays.
And that's something that I thought was very important to put out.
And so I have the four different illustrations of those beings in the book.
And probably the most unusual looking being was the praying mantis, something I call a praying mantis type being with ebony skin, kind of a, oh, maybe an exoskeleton.
But when she walked, she kind of, oh, I guess her back was at about a 45-degree angle, and she would kind of rock back and forth as her legs would move.
And that was probably the most unusual type of being I saw.
Well, what I had to do was play by the same rules that everybody else has to play by, and that was that because of my migraine headaches partially and because of my abduction experiences, I've had a brain CAT scan, a CAT scan of my sinus area.
I've had a complete psychological evaluation with a psychologist that did not believe in UFOs and a psychologist that did believe in the possibility of the, you know, well, I guess Dan Overlay believed that the phenomenon was real, so we'll say he believed in it, and then the other doctor did not believe.
And I'm the kind of person that I want to know the truth.
I don't care what it is.
I don't care if the truth one day, 20 years down the road, we find out that this was all chemically induced by the brain and you had the scars because of stigmata.
I mean, I want the truth.
And right now, I believe that the alien beings are Real and they are interacting with us.
But I, you know, have to remain open to the possibility that 20 years down the road we may know so much more about medicine that this is chemical imbalance and our thoughts are creating the scars.
I mean, I don't know.
I don't know.
But I have to remain open, at least partially open to that, because for me to just close my mind off to any other explanation and not to listen to anything else or anyone else's opinion would be just like what Standard Freeman likes to term the noisy negativists.
You know, they have already made up their mind, don't show me the data.
I've had a lot of people like you tell people when I ask, you know, for other people that have been abducted, I ask, should these people investigate what they think is an abduction in their own life or multiple abductions?
And a lot of people like yourself have said, no, unless it's bothering you to the degree it's disrupting your life, don't do it.
If you're not having problems and you don't have memories and then they're not, you know, if your missing time isn't bothering you, then congratulations.
I'm really happy for you and get on with your life and live it to the fullest.
And I feel like it just has cleared everything up about the babies, the hybrid babies and everything.
If you read that book, it makes you feel like, because Mary has said that when our world ends up here, that we're going to continue on somewhere else and that we'll be having, we will all look completely different.
We'll be a lot more spiritual and we'll be a lot different.
And they do mention the UFOs in that book.
And you just wonder if maybe they're not just getting us ready for when that's going to happen.
That is a theory that has been stated within the UFO community.
I actually know an abductee here in Portland who has had experiences.
Now, when I say, when I mention an abductee, I know the person.
I've known them for a while.
It's not just somebody I talk to once or twice.
I know them as a friend.
And so I feel confident relaying this information.
She has had experiences during which she has seen, for example, seen the life force leave a child and go into another body.
And she has been asked or encouraged to practice leaving her body to move into a new body that will be waiting for her when the time is right.
And she's told that when it is time for you to do this, you will know.
And you will know how to move from your old body into your new body.
And this, to me, kind of, you know, infers or implies that maybe something will be happening during our lifetime that we will be leaving these bodies and moving into other bodies.
I mean, it's not just this one person.
I've heard this from other people, but I'm relaying her information because I know her as a person and I know that she's a good, honest individual.
She's also an abductee, and she's worked with a clinical psychologist.
So I actually was Holding Mary's message to the world today in a bookstore.
I wonder, Katarina, what it is that has some people who are abducted getting, in effect, messages for the world and others, like yourself, not really getting messages for the world, but just being subject of medical experimentation, apparently.
I've always wondered, is it possible, if you haven't ever met any of these alien peoples or anything like that, is it possible for you, if you have a desire to get in contact with them, to contact them without them contacting you?
Well, I certainly have had my moments where I wanted to relay information to them, and I explained in my book, and I know other abductees have explained, that they can sense when the beings are nearby.
Sometimes they don't get visited, but they know they're nearby and they might be tuning into them, watching them, listening, or some kind of mental tuning in to the abductee, like to maybe check on them so they're not physically abducted.
But in those instances, when you sense that, or when I have sensed that, I have given them messages and I've tried to relay my thoughts or what my message was or my information or my question.
If you want to open yourself up, there are spirit beings, you know, there are forces out there that would gladly entertain you and would probably misguide you.
And I would say be very careful what you wish for.
I don't think any of us, when we were six years old or five years old, said, gee, I want to be an abductee or I want to be abducted by aliens.
Like I said, I am right now I believe these are real beings.
If these aliens are real, they're really coming here.
But I can't totally close off my mind of the possibility that one day, as we learn more, you know, about our minds and how the brain operates, because we really don't know that much about the brain, who's to say what we're going to learn?
And that's something, you know, that's something that, you know, maybe it's just this little window over here with this beam of light shining through that, you know, it's just this little bit of belief that we're going to go in that direction, but I still have it there.
I just can't totally close off my mind of that possibility.
You know, when I think about what they're doing, what they're creating, I think about the babies, it hurts.
It's painful.
I don't like it.
But on the other hand, I would like to invite human beings who are listening to consider what we are doing to animals and let's see how they feel about their position.
You know, we don't know for a fact that animals are not conscious, don't have a soul.
And I think that, you know, how can we be so mad at what the aliens are doing when what we do to animals is, you know, much, much worse than what has been done to me.
If they've told me it's their decision that I'm not allowed to remember it consciously, there's a chance that I have the answer, but I'm not remembering it on a conscious level.
And perhaps hypnosis would help, and perhaps I'm not ready.
I've described this type of being as a mind prober, mind controller.
And before I realized who they were, they would terrify me because their presence was just so very alien, so different from anything I've experienced.
Once I realized who they were and what they looked like and that they weren't going to harm me, I was no longer afraid of them.
And so when I felt that presence, you know, I didn't fear it.
Now, there is another time.
The part of my experience is when you read my book, you'll realize that the actual leaving my bed is the part that terrifies me the most because you are literally placed in a different space.
Well, I was thinking earlier that maybe I should just do a little speculating and not worry so much about what everybody's going to say about, you know, Dr. Overlaid used to say, well, what do you think, Katarina, if you just let your fantasy or your imagination, you know, take this information forward?
Yes.
So, you know, looking at it that way, if I were to just say, okay, going on what I know and what I feel and goodness, you know, why are they here and all the things that I've seen them doing, it doesn't make a lot of sense that if you were coming to a planet to really help the planet, to help the people of the planet, you know, that you would keep so much information from them and that you would play so many games with them.
So the lack of their willingness to be open and honest with us is not a real positive thing.
It leads me to believe that they are hiding or withholding information, that that's not necessarily for our good.
Now on the other hand, if there's some catastrophic event that's going to happen that they can't keep from happening, let's say an asteroid is going to hit the planet and there's nothing they can do about it, and generally when we have large asteroid strikes, that pretty much wipes out everything.
Then, you know, if I were an alien race, perhaps scientists, just some of these beings are, I'd probably want to salvage what life I thought was important or what life I thought I could manipulate into being what I wanted it to be.
Yeah, whether it's a man-made catastrophe or if it's an asteroid followed by enormous geologic repercussions, which is what's going to happen if we have a large enough asteroid.
And I'm not talking about this because Without Warning was on last weekend.
This is something I published in my book in March, way before the movie came out.
I think that, you know, you would want to take samples and representations of the life on that planet and perhaps put it back in a million years in some other form or put it on another planet or in a laboratory for that matter.
So, I mean, I kind of, you know, back when I really didn't know anything about abductions except that I was involved and, oh my God, you know, I've got to figure this out, my first thought back in 1987 or early 88, I remember it was in this different house, it was early 88, was, well, gee, this must be what the rapture is all about.
You know, how else can you get human bodies off the planet without any trace?
You know, you beam them up.
And I, you know, I hate that phrase, it's so Star Trek-y, but, you know, when you can move bodies in white light and blue light, when you can move physical objects and change physical objects and change the molecular structure of people and objects, which apparently these beings can do, you know, that's, to me, back in 1988, I thought, well, that would explain the rapture, that scenario.
And with all the different pieces of information that people are getting and the different forms that's coming through, whether it be a classical, you know, abduction experiencer case or channeled information, we're all getting a piece of this, this puzzle, whatever you want to call it.
And it leads everybody, I mean, it's all leading to the direction that some big event is going to happen.
I'm not going to say it's going to happen in the year 2000, but I think it's going to happen in my lifetime.
I'm 34 years old, and I think that in my lifetime, I'm going to see a heck of a lot more changes than what I've seen so far.
Katerina, I've got a theory for you, and I'm going to run it by you, and I'd like for you to tell me what you think.
I recently got done reading a book by George C. Andrews in which there were, at many different times and places, law enforcement officials were baffled by outbreaks of waves of like child abductions.
And I don't mean UFO type thing.
I mean, they say that statistically there are just not enough clever kidnappers to account for all of the massive numbers of people that are abducted and never come back worldwide.
All of the missing people.
Do you have any opinion as to whether some of these many thousands and thousands of people that are gone or missing could be taken up and just never returned?
I'm going to kind of add up a lot of questions that S in Santa Barbara has here and simply ask you, have you ever wondered, Katarina, whether you might be an alien?
Gee, I'm going to get kicked out of MUFAN for that one.
Actually, I have, especially when back in 1988, I told my mother that I really thought there might be something to Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker's abduction experience in Mississippi, which was, you know, back when she didn't know anything about my involvement.
And this was my way of kind of breaking the subject to her.
And I said, you know, and what other people are finding out is that there's some kind of interest in our reproductive behavior by the aliens, that they seem interested in our, you know, reproductive aspect.
And my mother just out of the blue blurted out, well, your father was an alien.
Your father was probably an alien.
And, you know, oh, I guess 30 seconds went by before either one of us said anything.
And it was just like, I was thinking, why the hell did you say alien?
And alien is not in her vocabulary.
I mean, she has never said that word in her life.
And I don't know.
I have since that time wondered what on earth they could be interested in me for.
And that's something, you know, when you're looking at genetics and the unusual pregnancy my mother had with me, you know, I wonder if that's...
Well, she was pregnant and she had it confirmed.
She went to see her doctor, you know, examinations and everything.
And in her third month, early fourth month, she went To the doctor, and lo and behold, there's nothing there.
She's not pregnant anymore.
She didn't have a miscarriage.
Really?
And so she thought, well, that's odd, but my mother just was one of those women that didn't question doctors.
I don't know how many women really questioned doctors 30, 40 years ago.
So a few, oh, I can't remember, one or two months later, you know, she goes back thinking she's pregnant.
He examines her, and she is pregnant.
And she's well into her pregnancy.
I think she was again about three months pregnant.
And, of course, my mother was hysterical at this point because for some reason, she thought, she told the doctor, she says, I don't know why, but I was hysterical.
I was crying.
And I told the doctor that that baby, you know, if it survived in the first place, would never be normal.
It would just never be a normal baby.
And he kept assuring me that everything would be okay.
And that baby was born, and that baby was me.
But somehow, very deep inside, and a very emotional mother, didn't believe that that baby would ever be born normal.
Yeah, and there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about those children.
And my fantasy about that, if anybody wants to know, is that one day I'll open my door and they're going to be standing there and they're going to live with me.
You know, that I'm going to be able to be with them.
And a follow-up question, what does she think about what the government knows about this agenda and what is their part in the intimidation, harassment, and even abduction of abductees?
If you want to talk about being horrified about being abducted by somebody, let's say how would we all feel if we were abducted by our government or members of the military?
So this is a subject that, yes, Carla Turner has written about and Leah Haley has written about and I have written about.
We have all seen military government people in our experiences, in our abduction experiences.
I have over the 32-year timeframe that the book covers, there's 119 experiences, and out of those, there are 14 that involve military government aspects.
Well, gee, I am asking myself, did the radiation experiments ever end?
Did that aspect of our government ever stop doing what it was doing to people?
I mean, the Tuskegee Institute experimented on black men and let them die so they could study syphilis.
We gave radiation tablets to infants.
I mean, to me, if you can experiment on an infant, anything goes.
So, I mean, I'm certainly fair game.
And I asked myself, did these experiments stop?
Is this part of a continuation of what Marchetti and Marsh talk about in the Manchurian candidate or the cult of the CIA, you know, cult of intelligence, the book about the CIA, the CIA and the cult of intelligence?
I mean, we experiment on humans just like everybody else.
Gosh, of all the guests that I've heard, nothing personal, young lady, but your listening to you gives me a very uneasy feeling.
And I would just like to bring up the point about free will.
I think as human beings, our most precious gift is the gift of free will.
And it seems like the alien influence and encounters are taking away this precious gift.
It gives me an uneasy feeling.
There was a Twilight Zone episode about 20 years ago in which the aliens landed on Earth and there was a wonderful, oh, you know, of course there are some people that reacted violently, but most people were very accepting.
And they said, well, we're here to serve man.
We're here to serve man.
And at the very end of the hour episode, they left behind a book.
Oh, no one could translate.
Right.
No one could translate it.
One man did and everyone had left and it turned out to be a cook's book.
Well, I don't think it's good for aliens to experiment on people.
You know, I'm not saying because humans experiment on others that it's okay for aliens to experiment on us.
I'm just saying that if you were visiting a planet and studying the beings or people on that planet, you're going to look at their behavior towards the other species on their planet.
And all I'm saying when I bring that up is, as far as the alien to human, human to other species, is that I'm just glad that I'm not being as treated as badly as I could be treated.
My involvement in all of this, and that's the one thing I'm pretty darn sure of, is that I feel like I'm supposed to be some kind of spokesperson or educator, and I try to remain neutral, and I try to present both sides of, you know, whatever, of the information that I have.
And I try to do it in a neutral way.
You know, I can get all upset and hate the aliens and, you know, instill a lot of fear and negativity in everybody, but I don't see that as being very productive.
Now, as far as the government goes, I'm not by any means saying that it's okay for the government to do what they did and what I'm speculating they might be doing now.
All right, with reference to that child, which you said was yours, she asked, did you ever notice any subtle changes in your body, or was that a test tube baby from start to finish?
With my experiences, most of it is most of this genetic manipulation.
The pregnancies are artificially created.
I did have an experience during which they told me that my baby was in the spindle phase, which is during the initial stages of cell when the cell splits during mitosis.
Now, that happens hours after the sperm and egg meet.
And this is not something, I mean, we can do this, we can watch this.
I mean, if you've watched the learning channel, you've seen this under a microscope.
But, you know, we can't determine that somebody's pregnant that early on.
Our tests just don't show that.
But they can tell when it's in the spindle phase.
So I mentioned this in the book.
I think that they can artificially inseminate and remove before a woman will even know she's pregnant.
Well, again, I noticed, Katerina, that the way you're approaching all this is almost from a third-party point of view, almost from an alien point of view, almost as if to say to the audience, don't worry about all this.
Your attitude says don't worry about this or that it's all right.
And I don't mean to imply that I'm saying, you know, what's happening is okay, but I don't want people to expect me to be, because I'm a woman and I'm an adductee, I am not going to view myself as a victim.
And if people don't like my presentation or uncomfortable with the neutrality of that, that's because they're trying to place me in a category where, oh, it should be poor Katerina, all she's been through.
Yeah, I went through that, and I'm really glad I'm not there anymore because it's not fun to wallow around in self-pity.
I'm an abdicee.
I'm having experiences.
I know I have free will.
I'm not a weak-willed person because I'm being abducted.
You know, I'm trying to present the information.
I'm not going to get emotional about it because that doesn't do anybody any good, and I don't want people to view me as a victim, and I don't want people to feel sorry for me.
Number one, what did the life force of the alien that went into the child look like?
You said you saw it.
And number two, I heard a UFO speaker present the theory that the grays are here to do something that had lost their emotions and that they needed to hybrid with us to get this emotional capacity restored to them.
Okay, the life horse, gee, I can only describe it as the way I would know that a male alien is a male, a female alien is a female, you know, it's an inner knowing what's going on.
But also it was like I saw, oh, I don't know, I don't want to say it's a light, but more of just an energy going from the gray into the little boy.
Yeah, I was just wondering, I'm not wanting to blaspheme or nothing like that, but I was considering a lot of different references in the Bible to alien presences and stuff like that.
Well, missing time is a phenomenon that's often associated with an abduction.
And generally, you know, people will be going about their normal activities and will suddenly realize an hour or two, sometimes more, has passed.
And it only feels like a minute, you know, has gone by.
And a lot of times there's just no memory.
You know, you're washing dishes at the sink, it's 1 o'clock, and all of a sudden you're standing at the sink and there are the dishes, and it's 4 o'clock, and you have no memory.
Some people have memory of, you know, being with aliens and on their craft.
But that's kind of it in a nutshell.
I asked somebody here in Portland, a friend of mine, who, you know, the last thing I would expect him to say is that he's involved in this.
And I said, well, you know, have you ever been doing something, you know, driving along or, you know, working in your house or something?
And then all of a sudden noticed that a lot of time went by that you couldn't account for.
And just out of the blue, I mean, this person just about broke down into tears and started talking about, well, I was at this flashing yellow light and I was going to turn right.
And I was at a flashing yellow light.
And the next thing I know, I'm on Mount St. Helens in my car, you know, up at the visitor center.
Well, I think we're a logical resource for information.
Now, with the kinds of experiences where you have your classical abduction case, you have teaching dreams, you have visions, theatrical scenarios, teaching dreams, you know, those kind of things going on, I have always thought that it's important to look at all of those, not just on-the-table examinations.
And so I think that you can learn a lot about the alien psychology and perhaps learn more about what they're up to by looking at these other kinds of experiences.
They've hurt me physically and they've hurt me mentally.
The physical pain, as any woman who's born a child will tell you, passes, and it does.
You know, I don't enjoy physical pain.
I have gotten out of bed and fallen to the floor because I couldn't walk.
I've had blood on my sheets.
I've had puncture wounds in my body.
That doesn't feel good, but it heals.
I think the hardest thing is the mental wounds, the anxiety, the constant anxiety.
Okay, I know they're going to come back.
When is it going to be?
But you cannot focus on that.
You cannot keep focusing on the what-ifs, what if, what if, I'm scared, I'm frightened, yeah.
But you have to get beyond that, or you're never going to have a life.
I mean, we have a life here.
We have a right to live our life the best we can, even though all this other stuff is going on.
And the people that are successful at getting beyond that, like myself and a lot of other people, shouldn't be blamed or looked upon with suspicion because we've gotten through it.
I think we should be commended for our strength and that we're willing to move on and willing to share our information.
I am told that most often after I present lectures and things, and I get a lot of mail, a lot of people actually just about, well, everybody's always complimentary.
They like my presentation.
They appreciate the fact that I haven't tried to scare them, that I am, you know, I try to remain neutral.
But, you know, of course, tonight we heard a little, some other attitudes.
I would like to tell you to order a copy of this program.
It was a very interesting program.
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This has been Dreamland, a very different and unusual kind of program.
And we will continue in this same vein with another guest next week.
And I'll be promoing that guest on my weekday show beginning Monday night, Tuesday morning through Friday night, Saturday morning, called Coast to Coast AM.