Nov. 6, 1994 - Art Bell
02:03:45
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
This is a pure recorded previously broadcast program. | |
| This is a pure recorded recording of the video. | ||
| Welcome to Dreamland, a program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box. | ||
| Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening a part of the mind as yet not matched, and yet things every bit as real as the air we breathe but don't see. | ||
| This is Dreamland. | ||
| It is Sunday evening, indeed. | ||
| It is once again Dreamland, and I think you're going to love our guest this morning. | ||
| She is Katerina Wilson. | ||
| She is an abductee. | ||
| She has written a book called The Alien Jigsaw. | ||
| And I think you'll find this absolutely fascinating. | ||
| As usual, with us in the very first portion of the show is Linda Howe this morning, or this evening rather, all the way from Philadelphia. | ||
| Her home, where she'll be reporting on who knows what, but something that has something to do with one of the two subjects that we discuss. | ||
| All the way to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania now, and Linda Howe. | ||
| Good evening, Linda. | ||
| Hi, all right. | ||
| Last week, I interviewed a woman in Alturas, California about strange craft and beams of light that she and others have seen in that wilderness area not far from the Oregon and Nevada borders. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Four people there have also seen triangle-shaped craft appear to send light beams between each other. | ||
| And at the end of my Dreamland segment last week, I asked people to write me about any information they have about government interactions with UFOs that might give more information about the question of a possible secret conflict with some kind of off-planet intelligence. | ||
| One source that emerged this week is a man from the Navajo American Indian Nation who joined the United States Regular Army on July 27, 1977 when he was 23 years old. | ||
| His name is John T. Vasquez, and I think you've had him on another one of your programs, Art, but I don't think that his story has been shared on Dreamland. | ||
| He was first assigned to Echo Company, 1st Advanced Infantry Training Battalion in the 1st Infantry at Fort Benning, Georgia, near Columbus, Georgia, which is south of Atlanta on the Alabama border. | ||
| The commander of Fort Benning in September 1977 was Major General William J. Livesey, Jr. | ||
| By September 1, 1977, John Vasquez was shifted to Delta Company in the 1st Battalion, 1st Infantry. | ||
| The next day on Friday, September 2, 1977, at 7.30 p.m. in the evening, there was a mandatory formation of the 1,200 men in the 1st Battalion where company commanders planned to introduce themselves and their staff. | ||
| All 1,200 men were outside in their companies in formation under a clear night sky when someone yelled to look up. | ||
| John Vasquez saw a light that looked like a star moving in a zigzag motion. | ||
| Then he saw some of the men start running away out of formation and saw a light coming closer to the ground. | ||
| This is John Vasquez now speaking in his own first-hand eyewitness testimony about what happened next. | ||
| Okay, excellent. | ||
| Here comes the report. | ||
| And by this time, it was already coming down to Charlie Company, and it was just this one ball of light, and it was about 15 feet in the air, or maybe 10. | ||
| And I didn't know what that thing was. | ||
| I thought it was still a truck or a cheap. | ||
| And when I pulled myself backwards, I looked up at the guy who was in front of me, and he was standing there asleep with his head bowed. | ||
| And his eyes closed? | ||
| Eyes closed. | ||
| He was asleep. | ||
| So I pulled myself backwards, leaned backwards a little. | ||
| And by this time, I don't know what happened, but I guess I became unconscious or something. | ||
| Do you remember going to black or your body moving? | ||
| No, I just became somehow I felt this falling out or this unconsciousness made across like somehow falling asleep. | ||
| And the sound of your commander's voice as he was speaking from the podium? | ||
| I didn't hear him at all. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I was fixed on this light. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I was moving backwards by this time when I saw this light and saw this guy's face. | ||
| He was standing there asleep. | ||
| So I moved back, and this is when I became real unconscious a little bit. | ||
| And I don't know how long that was, but when I came to, I couldn't move. | ||
| My foots were frozen. | ||
| I couldn't move my legs. | ||
| I tried to move my legs, but I couldn't move. | ||
| And what were you seeing? | ||
| I was looking at my foot. | ||
| So your head is down. | ||
| When I came to, I looked at my foot, both my feet, and I tried to move, and I couldn't. | ||
| So when I looked up, I turned my right body, and I noticed that there's about 30 people still standing around. | ||
| And the CO was standing there behind the podium. | ||
| And I saw my buddy, who was standing right next to me, to my right, running. | ||
| And a lot of the other guys are running into the trees and underneath the building. | ||
| And the commander, was he asleep, paralyzed? | ||
| When I couldn't move, I had to call my buddy to come back to help me. | ||
| And he did come back, and he had to physically pull me away from where I was standing at. | ||
| And when he did that, I pulled out of that place where I was standing, and we started to run. | ||
| And I called my buddy, who was on my Left-hand side now that I wanted to see the CO. | ||
| And he was screaming something, but I didn't understand what he was saying. | ||
| I wanted to see, I was screaming, I was screaming too, and I wanted to see the CO. | ||
| So we ran over to the CO and he was standing behind a podium asleep. | ||
| His eyes closed, too. | ||
| Yeah, he had his eyes closed, and his head was partially bowed, and he was standing there asleep. | ||
| And I screamed, I know I screamed, wake up out loud, real out loud, and he wouldn't. | ||
| And by this time, my friend, or my buddy who was standing to my left, had turned around and he was, whatever he was looking at, he was looking at kind of sort of straight up. | ||
| And his face was all pale. | ||
| And his eyes were like fishbowls and like he had his jaw open. | ||
| And I was looking at him with like something was draining through out of him, like he was in a kind of a trance look. | ||
| So I shook him violently. | ||
| I shook him real hard, and I told him, don't look, don't look. | ||
| And when he came to, he was saying, what's going on? | ||
| And I just told him, just take cover, just take cover. | ||
| And we started to run. | ||
| And by this time, this ball of light, huge ball of light, just showed up to the first building in front of us. | ||
| And it was so bright, it silhouetted all the frames of glass. | ||
| And the scenes of the buildings, you could see it. | ||
| It was that bright. | ||
| And it was in the other side of this first building, and it was coming around this building. | ||
| And at this time, we saw the four people that was underneath the building, the first building. | ||
| And we started screaming for them to tell us what was going on. | ||
| What was this ball light? | ||
| They were out, unconscious. | ||
| Really? | ||
| They didn't move. | ||
| I know we were screaming out loud for that same guy who just talked to us, but there were only four of them underneath there, and they were all out, lying there, just out. | ||
| They didn't move or anything. | ||
| And did the light seem to respond in any way to the sound of your yell? | ||
| No, it just came. | ||
| It just kept coming around this building, the first building, and just kept coming around the first building. | ||
| And when it came to the edge of the first building, I saw partially just the first edge of this thing. | ||
| And it was so bright, I guess I got fixed on this light. | ||
| And have you ever seen those searchlights at a car sale? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| Yeah, it's like looking right into one of them. | ||
| Yeah, they were that bright. | ||
| And it was coming around, and my buddy shook, my buddy was laying next to me to my left, and he shook me, and he yanked me and shook me. | ||
| I said, John, what is it? | ||
| What is it? | ||
| And I kind of, I guess I can stop looking at this. | ||
| And I turned to my friend, and I told him, whatever it is, it's coming this way. | ||
| About this time, I started to feel a pressure on my forehead, a real pressure. | ||
| And it was kind of a squeezing type pressure. | ||
| And I was screaming out loud the pain, the pain, and I felt this pain on my left forehead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I heard, don't be afraid. | |
| And the implication, of course, is that these 1,200 men at Fort Benning on September 2nd, 1977 were affected by a light in what may be categorized as some kind of a multiple abduction encounter that involved telepathic communication, paralysis, people being knocked out of their consciousness. | ||
| And eventually, John Vasquez found himself standing again with all the other men in his Delta company formation. | ||
| They all reported that they were nauseous and disoriented, the men around him, and no one knew the exact time because when he and three of the other men looked at their wristwatches, they all had different times. | ||
| Mysteriously, by the next day, most everyone seemed to have forgotten the details of that night. | ||
| But on September 16th, 22nd, and 29th, John Vasquez was entered into the Martin Army Hospital at Fort Benning for physical therapy to relieve severe muscle spasms. | ||
| His medical record stated that John Vasquez's assignment was D1.1, which was Delta Company 1st Battalion, 1st Infantry. | ||
| Then he was shipped off to Germany in October 1977 and had no further memory of the September 2 events until he started having nightmares in 1989. | ||
| In the last five years, he has filed dozens of FOIA requests for his Delta Company Army records. | ||
| To date, every reply states there was no Delta Company and no John Vasquez at Fort Benning, Georgia in September 1977. | ||
| He is a frustrated man and is now trying to find anyone else who was in Delta Company, 1st Battalion, 1st Infantry, on September 2, 1977 at Fort Benning, Georgia. | ||
| Anyone with any information about this, please contact me, Linda Howe, at Post Office Box 538 in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, zip code 19006. | ||
| And as a further footnote to this, Art. | ||
| It's interesting that I have confidentially heard a similar story taking place in a large United States corporation around 1989 that has never been reported. | ||
| Linda, Mr. Osquez also did receive some Freedom of Information request documents that seemed to indicate that the government was just about admitting UFOs. | ||
| I don't know whether he shared any of that with you. | ||
| Yes, he did, and I'm going to get a package of this material, and I hope to really go much further in the investigation of this and do more reporting about other aspects of this case that he and I have discussed. | ||
| But I feel that this is an indication that something is happening in the sense that other military and civilians have reported either a multi, this is large, 1,200 men, some cases smaller units, | ||
| where they've encountered some kind of a light, something has happened that was dramatic, and then they appear to lose memory, which they then recover later on in a variety of different dramatic ways, whether it's nightmares or some sort of other memory flash. | ||
| And the fact that this kind of event may have affected 1,200 people, it seems to me that somewhere out there there may be at least another one or two who might have their memory spurred even from these small excerpts tonight. | ||
| And right now, we're trying to get corroboration. | ||
| Okay, so there is that. | ||
| And let me ask you this also, Linda. | ||
| Is there any possibility that John Vasquez will be regressed hypnotically, or is there any further research that's going to be done into his memory of this? | ||
| There is one investigator who has done some limited hypnosis on his case. | ||
| And we were talking tonight about how we might go further. | ||
| I don't think at this point it's clear how to best proceed. | ||
| He feels that he wants to see, first of all, if he can find somebody else from his company. | ||
| He insists and has the medical records to prove that even if somebody is trying to expunge now from the record the existence of a Delta company, that his medical records alone prove that he was in Delta company, and he is hoping he can find somebody else out there who will come forward. | ||
| Very good. | ||
| Great report, Linda. | ||
| And just for the record, one more time, whether it's for your books or tapes, or it's to contact you with information, why don't you give your address and your phone number if you wish? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Thank you, Art. | ||
| It is post office box 538, and the address city is Huntingdon Valley, two words, H-U-N-T-I-N-G, D is in DOG O-N, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania. | ||
| And the zip code is 19006. | ||
| And I think I will, I like getting the letters more even than phone calls one way or the other because the letters that our dreamland audience are sending me have some of the most valuable information that I have been seeing in the last 15 years. | ||
| And I encourage everyone out there to contact me because I will keep everything confidential that you want confidential and anonymous if you want it anonymous. | ||
| But it does help us trying to understand this bigger truth of what is happening on our planet. | ||
| Great. | ||
| Linda, good report. | ||
| I appreciate it. | ||
| I'm glad to hear the Vasquez story again, and I'd love to know any follow-up to that. | ||
| I'm going to keep on going and have a great show with Katerina. | ||
| Okay, thank you. | ||
| And we'll talk to you next week from Philadelphia again. | ||
| Next Sunday, I will be in Colorado. | ||
| More mutilations in the south. | ||
| And we're having meetings with law enforcement and some others trying to help improve the quality of investigation. | ||
| The beat goes on out there, and there've been many reports of strange lights also. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Talk to you next week from Colorado. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That's Linda Howe. | ||
| She is our investigator. | ||
| A roving investigator, I might add, all over the country, all the time, sometimes Europe, wherever the action happens to be. | ||
| In a moment, Katerina Wilson, you've heard in 1987, Katerina Wilson read her first book on the UFO phenomenon titled Intruders, The Incredible Visitations at Copley Woods by Bud Hopkins. | ||
| Her memories prompted her to fill out the Omni magazine questionnaire titled Hidden Memories, Are You an Abductee? | ||
| In response to the questionnaire and other information, Bud Hopkins contacted her, had a telephone interview with her, followed by subsequent investigation and regressive hypnosis sessions in 1988. | ||
| This was followed by an investigation by MUFON investigator Vicki Lyons. | ||
| Shortly thereafter, she began working with Dan C. Overlaid, a Ph.D. He was a clinical psychologist with over 30 years experience and a MUFON consultant who'd also worked with several other abductees in the area. | ||
| Katarina Wilson has undergone both physiological and psychological examinations with no abnormalities found to account for her memories of her abduction experiences. | ||
| The book is called Alien Jigsaw, her book. | ||
| It is a chronicle of the first 32 years of Katarina Wilson's life, an average American woman and an alien abductee, not so average. | ||
| This is the story of a woman's search for answers, of adjusting to changing realities, and of ultimately achieving success over an overwhelming phenomenon. | ||
| In her quest, Katarina has, I believe, interviewed or investigated over 100, repeat over 100 additional abduction cases. | ||
| And in a moment, Katarina Wilson. | ||
| If you'd like to call us, you're welcome to do it. | ||
| We'll get the telephone lines open just as soon as humanly possible, but we want to get Katarina's story out. | ||
| So coming up, right after the break, abductee, author, Katarina Wilson. | ||
| You're listening to Dreamland on the CBC Radio Network. | ||
|
unidentified
|
With your calls to Dreamland with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nine. | |
| It's always that one. | ||
| Welcome back, everybody. | ||
| I'm Art Bell, and this is Dreamland. | ||
| Throughout Sunday evening, we will be here. | ||
| And now, from, I believe, in the Oregon area, it's area code 503, so that must be her home. | ||
| Here comes Katerina Wilson. | ||
| Katerina, welcome to the program. | ||
| Hi there. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| It's great to have you. | ||
| I understand, Katerina, you've got some good news on your book, and nobody else knows about it yet, so I thought we'd start there. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| The alien jigsaw, what's happened? | ||
| Well, I just got word that Barnes & Noble wants to pick it up, and so we think it's going to be in bookstores everywhere by Christmas. | ||
| That is wonderful. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| They must have a very high opinion indeed of it to pick it up, and of course, as you point out, it will be everywhere. | ||
| is a nice Christmas present. | ||
| It sure is. | ||
| Congratulations, Katerina. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| You are in Oregon, is that correct? | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Portland, Oregon. | ||
| Portland, all right. | ||
| For us, KEX country, we call it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's your radio station in Portland. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Katerina, I like to be able to allow my guests to unfold their story their own way. | ||
| So how in the world did all this begin for you? | ||
| I mean, there you were leading a normal life. | ||
| Well, we think I was living a normal life. | ||
| Actually, I had quite a bit of memory since the time I was six years old. | ||
| And I managed to kind of put things on the back shelf as they would occur. | ||
| At first, when I was six, I used to think, well, these unusual things that were being done to me had to be happening because God was making them happen. | ||
| You know, as a six-year-old, that's pretty much where I put it. | ||
| Were you a religious youngster? | ||
| Not really. | ||
| We went to church every Sunday, but I never really connected as a child or a teenager with the religious community, although my mother, you know, made sure that all three of us went to Sunday school every Sunday, and we were confirmed through the Lutheran Church. | ||
| But as a child, and of course, you know, aliens don't exist, so the only other person that could float you outside and paralyze you and telepathically communicate with you was God. | ||
| So that's kind of how it started for me. | ||
| And then I had, throughout my childhood and adolescence, I had occurrences of missing time and unusual memories again. | ||
| And I don't know. | ||
| I guess, you know, you just learn how to deal with that and adapt, and you put it on the back burner because you've got other things in life you need to deal with. | ||
| And I think for me, what happened was I had so many conscious memories that after a certain amount of time, there was nowhere else to go with. | ||
| And I could, you know, you can only bury so much in your life, and pretty soon it just starts to bubble up. | ||
| And that started happening. | ||
| Kind of like the Vasquez story that Linda told about. | ||
| At some point in your life, even though it's perfectly hidden, it seems to start bubbling up many times with kind of dire consequences psychologically. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Whether it's a spontaneous memory or it comes through nightmares or recurring dreams, eventually the information comes out, I think, with most people. | ||
| If it happens enough, you only have so much space in your mind and you eventually have to release it. | ||
| Well, what finally drove you, I guess is the right word, to Bud Hopkins and any other researchers that you've seen? | ||
| Well, I would say in 1983, when I started keeping my journal, I had some pretty serious events happen, and I felt like I had to get them out, so I started writing them down. | ||
| I also had some serious anxiety starting to develop, and that started in 83, and then by about 86, it had reached a point where I convinced my fiancé, Eric, to nail all the windows shut in the house. | ||
| And I had all my cats in an enclosure, and inside the house, they couldn't run free anymore. | ||
| And I was going out in the backyard. | ||
| We had woods behind our backyard. | ||
| And I was going out looking for aliens. | ||
| And I thought I was going crazy. | ||
| And I had all this anxiety and fear. | ||
| And I didn't even know what an alien looked like. | ||
| And you just kind of out wandering around in the woods? | ||
| Well, I would, well, not really in the woods, but we had woods behind our house. | ||
| We had a huge backyard. | ||
| And I would be outside at night, you know, silly Katarina, you know, midnight to 2 a.m. going, gee, where are you? | ||
| You know, I'm expecting to see aliens, although at that time I wasn't quite sure what they would look like. | ||
| And so that was 86. | ||
| In 87, I was in a bookstore, and, you know, I picked up this crazy book about UFOs called Intruders, and I started reading it, and my God, you know, it was like reading a story about myself. | ||
| All right, there's something I need to understand. | ||
| Before we get to that portion, Katarina, you say you were out in the woods, you were plagued. | ||
| What exactly had happened to you to bring you to this point? | ||
| Or what did you think had happened to you at that point? | ||
| Well, I was constantly, I don't know, I was constantly looking up, expecting to see a UFO. | ||
| I had had a sighting when I was 16. | ||
| I had had a pretty clear sighting of three hamburger-shaped craft. | ||
| They were silver with yellow, red, and blue lights around the midsection. | ||
| My mother, my brother, the people I was babysitting for, and several of the children in my cul-de-sac that I lived, you know, the street I lived on, they were all outside. | ||
| And it was very late between midnight and 2 a.m. again, and we had the sighting. | ||
| And the interesting part about that is at the end of the sighting, I mean, to me it lasted 45 minutes. | ||
| I was the only one out there at the end. | ||
| At the beginning, we were all out there together. | ||
| And my feeling when I saw them was a confirmation of familiarity. | ||
| It was like I had always known about them. | ||
| And, you know, at 16, of course, I told my friends in high school, and they ridiculed me and laughed at me. | ||
| And I learned not to talk about those kind of things. | ||
| So I buried that for another decade. | ||
| And so at 16, you know, so here I am at 26, I'm thinking, well, I know they exist. | ||
| And I know they're up there. | ||
| I kept looking up, and I just had like a free-floating anxiety, a fear of something out there that was going to come in and get me and hurt my cats and me. | ||
| And I was having, you know, I was aware of the recurring type dreams I was having and the memories. | ||
| You know, I'd walk up to a wall and think, gee, you know, I know I could go through this if I just could remember how to do it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Just odd things. | ||
| And at the time, of course, I thought I was crazy because I had not read a book about UFOs, much less about the abduction phenomenon. | ||
| And then of course the first book I would pick up would be about the abduction phenomenon. | ||
| And I had, I think, I had two books in my hand. | ||
| I remember one was about sightings and the other one was intruders. | ||
| I mean, it was about UFOs. | ||
| And I said, well, I know they exist. | ||
| This is what I need. | ||
| And I didn't really know what intruders was about other than the UFO phenomenon. | ||
| And then, again, it was like reading your life story, so to speak. | ||
| So as you read, you said, uh-huh, this is it. | ||
| This is what's been going on. | ||
| No, I said, oh, my God. | ||
| What am I going to do? | ||
| And I actually gave the book to my fiancé and said, you know, I want you to read this. | ||
| And I just kind of, you know, put my head down and said, you know, we'll just wait and see. | ||
| And he finished it, and we just looked at each other. | ||
| We didn't really say anything, but we looked at each other, and it was kind of a sad, intense moment because we knew without speaking to one another what we needed to do, and that was to look into that. | ||
| And so you did. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And how did the research develop? | ||
| In other words, I guess it was Bud Hopkins, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| How did Bud handle it with you? | ||
| You talked to him once by telephone, then what? | ||
| Yeah, well, I filled out the Omni questionnaire, and I couldn't just say yes or no and circle the answer. | ||
| I had to go get my journal and write down all these things that, well, like, you know, for each question, I gave him about five pages, which I think any adductee that goes through this awakening and has somebody finally, for the first time in their life, they can talk to about this, will know exactly what I'm saying when somebody asks you a simple question and you can talk and write, you know, pages and pages about that. | ||
| So I ended up having to bind the material I sent him with the questionnaire. | ||
| And I literally, I thought, well, this guy, first of all, I don't know who he is. | ||
| And second of all, when he gets this, he's going to think I'm nuts. | ||
| And my fiancé, husband now, Eric, insisted that I mail this to him. | ||
| And I fully expected the men in the white coats to show up at my house and take me away when he got it. | ||
| And I remember sending it to his house. | ||
| I didn't want to send it through Omni because I didn't want anybody at Omni magazine to read this stuff. | ||
| I sent it to his home address. | ||
| And then he called a couple of weeks later and conducted a pretty lengthy telephone interview with me and said, well, I'm going to be in town this spring and I'd like to get together with you. | ||
| And that's when he did more face-to-face interviewing. | ||
| And that's when I wrote that infamous list of good and bad qualities down that he put in the introduction. | ||
| I had forgotten all about that, that I'd ever written that down for him. | ||
| And we did two regressive hypnosis sessions in a weekend, Friday and Sunday. | ||
| And Eric was always present during those. | ||
| And not a lot of alien information, well, no alien information really came out in the regressive hypnosis session. | ||
| But what he was able to do was to break through some kind of mental barrier that either I, my unconscious mind put up or the beings, alien beings themselves imposed on me not to remember. | ||
| And by going through these hypnosis sessions, I was able to look at a couple of areas of my childhood that were questionable, although no alien activity really came out. | ||
| He did break through that, and wow, the weeks after that, it was just spontaneous memories. | ||
| It was just like somebody had opened a door of a big, filthy, you know, cluttered closet. | ||
| And suddenly I opened the door and all this stuff could fall out. | ||
| It all came crashing down. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, I guess that's the meat of it then. | ||
| What in the world surfaced? | ||
| What did you suddenly remember? | ||
| What has happened to you, Katerina? | ||
| Well, I figured out pretty quickly that, you know, a lot of the memories that I had been holding in and denying, like the childhood experience that, you know, from the best that I can remember to happen when I was six, that, you know, this most likely wasn't God that did this. | ||
| That there was some other intelligence at work. | ||
| Specifically that did what? | ||
| What were your memories of... | ||
| but I knew that it was more important than anything in my life. | ||
| Seeing like a hybrid, what I call a hybrid type being wearing a white lab coat, telling me that after this little mark on my arm heel, that I'd have a little hole there. | ||
| Things like that. | ||
| Just unusual people telling you things that really happen. | ||
| You know, you'd wake up and they say this is going to happen. | ||
| You wake up with this scoop mark scar and there it is. | ||
| Scoop mark. | ||
| All right, Katarina, I want to find out more about that. | ||
| Hold on just one moment. | ||
| We'll be right back to you. | ||
| My guest is Katarina Wilson. | ||
| And her book is The Alien Jigsaw. | ||
| The most important book. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
On your right arm. | |
| And well, just missing skin or, you know. | ||
| Well, yeah, what happened was my memory told me that there was a doctor, vague looking face, but definitely humanoid, and he had on a white lab coat, and he had performed something to my arm. | ||
| And he said, well, you know, tomorrow, when this heals, You'll have a little hole there. | ||
| And I detected a little smile, and I smiled, and I said, Oh, well, that'll be neat. | ||
| You know, I was a kid, like eight or nine years old, and I thought that'd be pretty neat to have a little hole in your arm. | ||
| And the next day, I had this little scab on my arm, and it healed just very quickly. | ||
| And there was like what I described to Bud Hopkins, my scars, he said, do you have any unusual scars? | ||
| And I described mine as looking like craters on the moon. | ||
| And I said, well, I have these little scars, but mine look like little craters on the moon. | ||
| And this is what, you know, the one on my arm looks like. | ||
| It's in the photograph in the book. | ||
| And what I did the next day, of course, was I wanted to show my mother. | ||
| And I went up to my mother and said, oh, look, look, look, look. | ||
| Isn't this neat? | ||
| And I want you to see this little hole in my arm. | ||
| And she wouldn't even look at it. | ||
| She became almost hysterical, you know, from my point of view and refused to look at it, kind of threw her arms up and just got away from me as fast as she could. | ||
| Wow, how odd. | ||
| So I thought, well, gee, that's strange. | ||
| And perhaps from her response, I spent, oh, and I even try to cover it up today many, many years, you know, 20 years, trying to hide that little scar from people because I was kind of embarrassed for it to be there. | ||
| Have you ever asked your mom why she reacted that way? | ||
| Well, not about that particular scar. | ||
| She's kind of a new recruit, so to speak. | ||
| I see. | ||
| She is still reading my book, which she's finding quite interesting, and so we're taking the questions slowly. | ||
| She's about, oh, I think a little over halfway through the book. | ||
| So we'll get to that. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| How many of your memories, Katerina, are now vivid? | ||
| All of them. | ||
| All the ones that I talk about and write about are vivid. | ||
| They are, when I talk about an abduction experience in my book, it is as real as my waking reality. | ||
| My memories of the experiences I chose to write about and that I put in writing are real. | ||
| If I have a vague memory, it was not... | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, then give me some of those that are very specific because what you described when you got your scoop mark, for example, where were you? | ||
| Were you taking to a craft? | ||
| What kind of a craft were you in? | ||
| Who was this doctor? | ||
| Was he, you said, vaguely or fairly humanoid? | ||
| Well, that particular experience, the only part about that one, and that one is not in the book, the photograph is in the book, but the part I remember about that really happened in the house. | ||
| It was after I'd come back to the house, and we were facing one another, standing in my den of the house at that time. | ||
| But I, you know, can go back, and there is a hybrid being that I call the doctor that I have a picture of in the book that I've seen several times. | ||
| He told me he had been visiting me since 1965, which was when I was about five or six years old. | ||
| I was born in 1960. | ||
| And the crafts, you know, the ones that I see him in are usually very, very large. | ||
| You know, some people will call these motherships. | ||
| I refer to them in the book sometimes as three-story malls, which is probably why I hate going to the mall. | ||
| But again, this particular craft is large. | ||
| There's usually a hospital or clinic type portion to the craft, very wide hallways, curved walls. | ||
| Sometimes there's slopes, sloping walkways within the craft. | ||
| In the hospital-like areas, there are clinical hospital rooms. | ||
| They're usually fairly bare. | ||
| There's maybe a bed or a glass box. | ||
| Very similar to the descriptions given by other abductees. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| And like the glass box situations are usually during the presentation of infants and children. | ||
| They present a lot of these babies and infants in glass boxes. | ||
| And that was a very vivid experience with the doctor. | ||
| He was presenting me this black infant in a glass box and told me that this was my baby. | ||
| And it was a black child. | ||
| It was a black child. | ||
| Well, actually, he told me it was mine and Eric's baby, which that was what really got me because we're both white, and logically didn't know how we could have a black child. | ||
| So I left the room and went walking through this ship to another room. | ||
| Which is something I think Forrest Crawford found very interesting that you seem to get to walk around the ship, Katerina, and not everybody gets to do that. | ||
| Did you know that? | ||
| And I thought, well, no, I'm always walking around the ship because I always, you know, I'm always doing something I'm not supposed to be doing with them. | ||
| And I usually leave the room or get irritated with them or something. | ||
| And in this case, I got irritated and thought, well, they lost my baby. | ||
| You know, I said, well, hospitals are always losing people's babies. | ||
| Where did I get that idea? | ||
| And so I went to another room, and there was a woman, a human woman lying in a bed, and there was another glass box, two to three feet square. | ||
| And she had a child in her box, and I picked him up. | ||
| He had blonde, white hair, and I picked him up, and he opened his eyes, and they were gold, golden eyes. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And I always called him the golden-eyed boy. | ||
| But he seemed to have a neurological problem and was very, very sick. | ||
| And of course, I decided, well, he has golden eyes. | ||
| He can't be my child. | ||
| That was before I really knew what I know about abductions today, and that is that there seems to be a hybridization type program going on where they're mixing, they appear to be mixing different races together. | ||
| So while some of the children seem human, others are totally alien and others are in between where they have human and alien characteristics. | ||
| Have they ever actually telepathically or otherwise talked to you about why they are doing all of this? | ||
| That's, yeah, that's a tough question. | ||
| I feel on one level that I do know the reason why they're doing it. | ||
| All right, Katarina, hold that thought. | ||
| We're going to go do the news. | ||
| You won't hear anything. | ||
| Don't let that worry you. | ||
| We'll be right back to you. | ||
| Katarina Wilson will pick it up at that point. | ||
| This is Dreamland. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is a pre-recorded previously broadcast. | |
| We continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell. | ||
| Call Art now, toll-free, at 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| 1-800-618-TALK. | ||
| First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222, 702-727-1222. | ||
| Or the wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295. | ||
| 727-1295. | ||
| In the 702 Area Code. | ||
| Now again, here's Art Bell. | ||
| Now again, here I am. | ||
| My guest is Katerina Wilson. | ||
| She has authored a book called The Alien Jigsaw, just picked up by Barnes and Noble, so you'll be able to get it anywhere, and we're going to find out more about her experiences in just a moment. | ||
| Back now to Katarina Wilson. | ||
| Katerina. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| All right. | ||
| So you think that there's some sort of genetic motive, some sort of genetic motive behind all they are doing with human abduction. | ||
| Is that correct? | ||
| Well, not just a genetic motive. | ||
| I think I may have left some of your listeners hanging. | ||
| I was going to say I feel as if I've been told why they're creating these children, but I haven't been allowed to remember it consciously. | ||
| I think that there is some holding back of information by the aliens themselves for whatever their purposes are. | ||
| But besides the genetic factor, I think that, or maybe because of the genetic factor in the creation of these other beings, babies, beings, I think we have to look at the type of psychological testing they're doing with abductees, | ||
| the other types of physiological tests, and perhaps hindrances of maybe creating problems with people, severe medical problems with people, and perhaps even curing other problems. | ||
| Some people report being healed of problems that they used to have prior to their experiences or an experience. | ||
| Do you detect their motives to be good motives? | ||
| In other words, are they well-intentioned toward us, do you think? | ||
| Or is it something we should be frightened of? | ||
| Well, even if their intentions are not positive, I don't think we need to be frightened of them. | ||
| I think being afraid is only going to hinder our ability to understand what they're doing. | ||
| So regardless of whether they're here for good or bad, the first step is not to fear them. | ||
| And you're not going to be able to figure out what's going on and understand your experiences if you're consumed with fear. | ||
| So I just want to kind of put that out there. | ||
| I have seen them do some good things. | ||
| I've seen them do bad things. | ||
| There are times I feel like I'm just an experimental animal to them. | ||
| There are other times that I feel that they love me and they care tremendously for me, like we would care for our own children. | ||
| And I've kind of, I guess maybe I'm speculating or I'm just basing on my own experiences here that since I've seen so many different types of beings, they're obviously, you know, they have different agendas. | ||
| And I think there are some here that care about us more than others. | ||
| And I'm not trying to back out of that question, but that's what I've seen. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| You know, there are some very loving, wise, spiritually advanced beings. | ||
| And then we have things like animal mutilations going on. | ||
| I know. | ||
| Any way you look at that, that is not positive. | ||
| So, you know, we're having a lot of different types of activity, and I think we have different aliens with different agendas, and we need to figure out, you know, as much as we can about all of them. | ||
| Well, I don't know. | ||
| The animal mutilations may involve environmental research. | ||
| People have talked about that. | ||
| Maybe it is not negative. | ||
| I mean, we, after all, experiment ourselves on animals for the benefit of mankind, medical research. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So, who knows? | ||
| Have they ever given you a message for us? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, not really. | |
| They haven't sat me down and said, okay, Katarina, we want you to tell your people this. | ||
| I have pretty much had to experience and, you know, sort out, assimilate all the things that have happened to me and tried to figure out what's going on myself. | ||
| It's, you know, I am not one of the people that get a lot of answers told to me. | ||
| I mean, they don't just sit me down and tell me things. | ||
| I have to learn it for myself and figure it out for myself. | ||
| I do believe that there is quite a bit of information that I am not remembering consciously that I think that they probably have told me more as to the whys of what they're doing than I'm consciously remembering. | ||
| Are you tempted to do any more regression to try to find out? | ||
| Well, yeah, sometimes, but when you remember so much, it's kind of like, well, you know, let me just deal with all this stuff I'm remembering consciously. | ||
| Why, you know, try to stir up any more than I'm ready to deal with right now. | ||
| I am pretty confident in the conscious memories I have. | ||
| I am pretty darn good at just disseminating what is a screen memory, what was camouflage, what was this theatrical scenario they were doing, and a straightforward abduction. | ||
| This was an experiment, this was a test, this was a screen memory, that kind of thing. | ||
| I've really learned to discriminate between the different types of experiences. | ||
| And then, of course, when you do get the screen memories or you know that you've had an experience and you don't remember anything, that is really frustrating. | ||
| And perhaps hypnosis would help there and perhaps not. | ||
| My hypnosis sessions with Dan Overlaid revealed some new information, but not a lot, not very much at all. | ||
| And we basically rehashed a lot of what I had already written down in my journal because I'd been keeping the journal and it was important for me to document everything I remembered prior to going through hypnosis. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I know that you've done some very interesting work in one rather sensitive area. | ||
| I guess if we're going to follow on this business of genetic experimentation, and I know that aliens have been said to collect ovum and sperm and all the rest of it. | ||
| And you tried to relate the times when you were abducted, or I suppose when others have been abducted, to your menstrual cycle, didn't you? | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Yeah, the part, the research I did in the researcher supplement was because I, well, I was one of these people that had a lot of monthly pain, and it was pretty much debilitating for me. | ||
| So there was no doubt in my mind, you know, that I, you know, for my life, my life kind of revolved around either my migraine headaches or this other aspect of being a female. | ||
| And so there was a lot of documentation done, you know, with that for medical purposes. | ||
| And so it was easy for me to correlate when my experiences would happen as to the time of the month that they would happen. | ||
| Okay, what did you discover? | ||
| Well, what I found out, and I didn't run any statistics on this, this is frequencies and percentage information, but what I found out was that during the first eight days after ovulation, I had the highest number of experiences. | ||
| And whether it's statistically significant or not, I don't know. | ||
| And we won't know until a lot of other women start documenting this type of information. | ||
| Well, I know that you've researched about 100 cases of abduction, haven't you? | ||
| Actually, I think where the hundred the number comes in is my book covers 119 of my own abduction experiences over a 32-year time period. | ||
| As far as other abductees, I would say that the number is closer to maybe 60. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right, well, that's fine. | ||
| 60 people. | ||
| When I, my work with abductees, I don't perform hypnosis. | ||
| It's more of just a support group situation, discussion group, telephone therapy. | ||
| I try to put them in touch with other people here. | ||
| No, that's fine. | ||
| What I would like to ask is, what commonality have you found, if any, between those who have been abducted, including yourself? | ||
| Well, I have spoken with some other women who have also noticed that they appear to be abducted pretty regularly during the time they're ovulating. | ||
| And I thought that was quite interesting, that this wasn't just an anomaly with me. | ||
| It may be an anomaly with five of us here in Portland. | ||
| But it does seem to occur more often pretty, I mean, it's like they can always count on the beings coming while they're ovulating. | ||
| No, I think this is really, really an interesting aspect to follow because so many people have said it is genetic, and this would be another line of proof. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| And the reason I put this very personal information out there was because I wanted to encourage other women to do the same. | ||
| They don't have to publish it themselves, but they can certainly share it with their hypnotherapist or whoever they're doing their hypnosis with or any other researchers. | ||
| This is the kind of correlational data we need to start out with. | ||
| I mean, you need to start with correlational data in order to work towards the... | ||
| You know, we don't have the medical community behind us right now. | ||
| And until we can get enough of our little pieces of data, you know, together to show them that, hey, we think we have something here. | ||
| Will you take a look at it? | ||
| That's where I was driving, you know, what I was driving for. | ||
| And I still am. | ||
| And if anybody's listening and you're a woman and you, you know, are having abduction experiences, that you remember this is so important. | ||
| This is one of those little things that we can do not only to help ourselves, but to draw some attention from the medical community or hopefully from some of those MDs on the board of directors that's NUFON, you know, to take a look at this stuff. | ||
| Well, I guess I'm not sure where to go from here with you other than to ask you if you can describe any of the beings that you encountered other than the doctor, the one that you described. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Gosh, I have so many illustrations in my book of the ones that I am not an artist, so I have to really see something in order to draw it. | ||
| And so I have several different types of hybrids, and I think that we may be hearing more about first, second, third generation hybrid beings in the future from other researchers. | ||
| I'm pretty much Sure, that I'm seeing hybrids with very human characteristics and to more alien characteristics. | ||
| And I'm speculating that maybe we're having a first, second, and third generation hybrids here that they are becoming more and more like us, maybe, or perhaps so much like us that we can't really distinguish them from them from us. | ||
| Do you think they're down here walking about? | ||
| I think it's possible, yeah. | ||
| I think it's probable. | ||
| Probable. | ||
| Probable, yeah. | ||
| After, well, you know, and that's not something I say lightly. | ||
| It's something that maybe three years ago, if somebody had said this to me, I would have said, no, I don't think it's probable. | ||
| But the different types of hybrids I've seen and how human they can look is just, and other people, you know, describing the same types of beings, I think it's probable. | ||
| I've seen four different types of beings that I would classify as grays, very short, three-foot-tall, floating, gray-skinned being to a seven-foot-tall gray being with the big head and the big round black eyes. | ||
| You know, a gray is not a gray is a gray. | ||
| There are different types of grays. | ||
| And that's something that I thought was very important to put out. | ||
| And so I have the four different illustrations of those beings in the book. | ||
| And probably the most unusual looking being was the praying mantis, something I call a praying mantis type being with ebony skin, kind of a, oh, maybe an exoskeleton. | ||
| But when she walked, she kind of, oh, I guess her back was at about a 45-degree angle, and she would kind of rock back and forth as her legs would move. | ||
| And that was probably the most unusual type of being I saw. | ||
| Katarina, don't take offense at this. | ||
| I'm going to just ask you a straight-out question. | ||
| It is, how have you satisfied yourself or come to terms with this question, that you're not crazy as a loon? | ||
| I mean, this is wild stuff you're talking about. | ||
| How have you satisfied yourself that this is real and not a concoction of your mind? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, what I had to do was play by the same rules that everybody else has to play by, and that was that because of my migraine headaches partially and because of my abduction experiences, I've had a brain CAT scan, a CAT scan of my sinus area. | ||
| I've had a complete psychological evaluation with a psychologist that did not believe in UFOs and a psychologist that did believe in the possibility of the, you know, well, I guess Dan Overlay believed that the phenomenon was real, so we'll say he believed in it, and then the other doctor did not believe. | ||
| Yeah, and for the sake of the discussion, his conclusions are perhaps more interesting. | ||
| The one who did not believe. | ||
| The one who did not believe, he told me that, well, I did, at my last meeting with him, I asked him if he believed in UFOs. | ||
| This wasn't something we really discussed, but at the end, he knew that I believed in them because I'd had that sighting and everything. | ||
| but this was prior to the UFO investigation. | ||
| Right. | ||
| He diagnosed me as, you know, a normal person without... | ||
| There's nothing psychologically wrong with you. | ||
| You have some problems with self-esteem. | ||
| Let's see. | ||
| We did. | ||
| But not a paranoid schizophrenic. | ||
| Oh, no, no, no. | ||
| There was no classification. | ||
| I mean, he said I was okay. | ||
| I was normally functioning. | ||
| I had low self-esteem. | ||
| And then I had, you know, unsure about what I wanted to do with my career because that was a rough time for me when I wasn't playing music anymore. | ||
| Well, that would describe many of us. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| But he, you know, he didn't, you know, I mean, he was nice and he really helped me. | ||
| And he also, what we did, what I did with him too was he charted everything I ate for three months and how I felt. | ||
| We charted my mood on a daily basis. | ||
| And he diagnosed me with severe PMS because it was just showing, I mean, I thought, well, gee, you know, what's this guy? | ||
| You know, I didn't believe in PMS back then. | ||
| I didn't believe that this was a real thing. | ||
| And it just, you know, this is what my diagnosis was, low self-esteem and PMS. | ||
| PMS, oh, well. | ||
| So I go with, okay, Dan Overlade's diagnosis was post-traumatic stress disorder. | ||
| Yeah, he agreed I had TMS and low self-esteem. | ||
| And so, you know, it's kind of funny to talk about this stuff. | ||
| Okay, so there it is. | ||
| Two opinions. | ||
| What about the physical exams? | ||
| The physical exams, they didn't find anything in the sinus cavity with the CAT scan. | ||
| That was after an experience during which I thought something had been removed from my sinus area, and Dan Overlay thought something had been put in. | ||
| And the brain CAT scan was normal. | ||
| There were no abnormalities with my brain. | ||
| And incidentally, I had an MRI done last week, last Friday, and I don't have the results back from that yet. | ||
| But I have pursued some further investigation because of the migraine situation. | ||
| I mean, I can't go in there for abductions, but I do have severe migraine, so I am able to get them to look at my brain. | ||
| So I'm hoping to get the results back from that real soon. | ||
| So far, though, so good. | ||
| No abnormalities, no. | ||
| And I'm the kind of person that I want to know the truth. | ||
| I don't care what it is. | ||
| I don't care if the truth one day, 20 years down the road, we find out that this was all chemically induced by the brain and you had the scars because of stigmata. | ||
| I mean, I want the truth. | ||
| And right now, I believe that the alien beings are Real and they are interacting with us. | ||
| But I, you know, have to remain open to the possibility that 20 years down the road we may know so much more about medicine that this is chemical imbalance and our thoughts are creating the scars. | ||
| I mean, I don't know. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| But I have to remain open, at least partially open to that, because for me to just close my mind off to any other explanation and not to listen to anything else or anyone else's opinion would be just like what Standard Freeman likes to term the noisy negativists. | ||
| You know, they have already made up their mind, don't show me the data. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| So, you know, it wouldn't be fair for me to say anything else. | ||
| I mean, to believe anything else. | ||
| But right now, where I am now in my life and what I know and what I've learned from my experiences, I believe that they're real physical experiences. | ||
| How is your husband handling all of this? | ||
| Well, he's a wonderful person and I don't know. | ||
| I feel very lucky. | ||
| He's had his own experiences. | ||
| He doesn't care to pursue an in-depth investigation about his own involvement. | ||
| He does have his memories and deals with them in his own way. | ||
| I've had a lot of people like you tell people when I ask, you know, for other people that have been abducted, I ask, should these people investigate what they think is an abduction in their own life or multiple abductions? | ||
| And a lot of people like yourself have said, no, unless it's bothering you to the degree it's disrupting your life, don't do it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I agree with that. | ||
| The old saying, if it's not broken, don't fix it. | ||
| If you're not having problems and you don't have memories and then they're not, you know, if your missing time isn't bothering you, then congratulations. | ||
| I'm really happy for you and get on with your life and live it to the fullest. | ||
| You know, that's how I feel. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Missing time. | ||
| That's another good topic, and we'll jump on that in just a moment and begin to open the telephone lines. | ||
| Katarina, hold on just a moment. | ||
| My guest is Katarina Wilson. | ||
| And she has been abducted many times. | ||
| If you have questions for her or about abduction or one of your own experiences, we're going to open up the lines in just a moment. | ||
| Stay right where you are. | ||
| This is Dreamland. | ||
|
unidentified
|
1222 or the Wildcard line at 702 7. | |
| This is the CBC Radio Network. | ||
| moment the lines open for katarina wilson i'd like to read now I'm going to give you a telephone number and an address, Katarina Wilson. | ||
| Katarina, hi. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| Are you ready for a few questions? | ||
| Well, I thought I was gonna have some missing time, so if I'm not here, now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm ready for the phone. | |
| All right, we'll get to missing time in a moment. | ||
| Let's get to the phone calls. | ||
| On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Katarina Wilson. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, I just had a question for you. | |
| For me? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, for you. | |
| All right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, my friend just moved to Sacramento, and he loves your show. | |
| He lists every Sunday, and he wants to know how he can get it down there. | ||
| In Sacramento? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| On KSTE radio. | ||
| K-S-T-E? | ||
| K-S-T-E in Sacramento, and I believe they're on 650 on the dial. | ||
| That's great, and your show is great. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| I enjoy it every Sunday also. | ||
| Thank you very much for the call, sir. | ||
| On the first-time caller line, you're on the air with Katarina Wilson. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Yes, hello? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Hi, Eric. | ||
| This is Few Week from Eagle River. | ||
| Eagle River, Alaska. | ||
| Okay, you're going to have to speak up for us good and loud. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Hi. | ||
| I wasn't expecting to get on so soon. | ||
| I've been listening to your show religiously for a long time. | ||
| I've read everything I can on UFOs. | ||
| And after the show last week, I went and bought that book, Mary's Message to the World. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I feel like it just has cleared everything up about the babies, the hybrid babies and everything. | |
| If you read that book, it makes you feel like, because Mary has said that when our world ends up here, that we're going to continue on somewhere else and that we'll be having, we will all look completely different. | ||
| We'll be a lot more spiritual and we'll be a lot different. | ||
| And they do mention the UFOs in that book. | ||
| And you just wonder if maybe they're not just getting us ready for when that's going to happen. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Katarina, what about that? | ||
| Oh, yeah, I'd like to comment on that. | ||
| That is a theory that has been stated within the UFO community. | ||
| I actually know an abductee here in Portland who has had experiences. | ||
| Now, when I say, when I mention an abductee, I know the person. | ||
| I've known them for a while. | ||
| It's not just somebody I talk to once or twice. | ||
| I know them as a friend. | ||
| And so I feel confident relaying this information. | ||
| She has had experiences during which she has seen, for example, seen the life force leave a child and go into another body. | ||
| And she has been asked or encouraged to practice leaving her body to move into a new body that will be waiting for her when the time is right. | ||
| And she's told that when it is time for you to do this, you will know. | ||
| And you will know how to move from your old body into your new body. | ||
| And this, to me, kind of, you know, infers or implies that maybe something will be happening during our lifetime that we will be leaving these bodies and moving into other bodies. | ||
| I mean, it's not just this one person. | ||
| I've heard this from other people, but I'm relaying her information because I know her as a person and I know that she's a good, honest individual. | ||
| She's also an abductee, and she's worked with a clinical psychologist. | ||
| So I actually was Holding Mary's message to the world today in a bookstore. | ||
| And I said, I should buy this book. | ||
| And I didn't buy it. | ||
| I don't know why. | ||
| I said, oh, I really should. | ||
| You should buy it. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| I think that maybe I'll go back tomorrow and get it. | ||
| I wonder, Katarina, what it is that has some people who are abducted getting, in effect, messages for the world and others, like yourself, not really getting messages for the world, but just being subject of medical experimentation, apparently. | ||
| Yeah, I don't know. | ||
| I ask that question a lot, too. | ||
| Myself, I've had an experience after both of the books were published. | ||
| This year, I saw a gray alien and a blonde child sitting side by side, and I watched the life force of the gray alien go into the blonde child. | ||
| Where was it? | ||
| A little blonde boy. | ||
| He looked like he was about five years old. | ||
| Where was this? | ||
| This was on a ship behind a glass wall. | ||
| I was on one side of the glass wall. | ||
| They were on the other side of the glass wall. | ||
| And after the life force went into the child, the child kind of, they were sitting down. | ||
| He stood up and then he teleported himself. | ||
| I mean, with thought. | ||
| I knew that with thought he was floating himself. | ||
| And he went into this little playroom and he was floating. | ||
| And I thought, oh, my God, these beings are telekinetic. | ||
| I mean, you know, they can teleport themselves. | ||
| And it was just phenomenal to see this. | ||
| But I also felt, you know, from my point of view, I felt a great sadness because the life force left the gray alien. | ||
| I mean, he died. | ||
| And I felt really sad. | ||
| But then in another way, I think that maybe I just didn't understand. | ||
| Well, I need to understand more about this. | ||
| Was the young boy human? | ||
| The young boy was, I would say, humanoid. | ||
| I don't know if he was, well, certainly wasn't human because he could float. | ||
| I mean, he could, you know, at will float himself around. | ||
| Well, in awkwardness. | ||
| I meant physically in appearance. | ||
| Physically in appearance, he looked human with the exception that he had a very muscular upper body. | ||
| He was about five years old, and he had a muscular upper body. | ||
| And you saw the life force of the alien, the gray, leave that gray's body and go into the young five-year-old boy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's a little frightening, Katarina. | ||
| Well, it was very sad for me. | ||
| I felt great sadness during the experience and the following couple of days. | ||
| And I just hope that it was a volunteer thing for the gray. | ||
| I hope he volunteered to do that and was not forced. | ||
| Well, I guess it occurs to me a long way. | ||
| But if that was a human boy, Pienerina, he in effect is now possessed. | ||
| Well, it didn't seem... | ||
| And if we come back more than once, then we're going to need more than one body. | ||
| So, you know, we're getting a little more into reincarnation here than perhaps what we were talking about. | ||
| Are you a believer in reincarnation? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| In that respect, I believe the soul is eternal and that part, the life force of the individual continues, whether you're in this physical body or not. | ||
| In that respect, I do. | ||
| All right. | ||
| On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Katarina Wilson. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, Art. | |
| Good evening, Art. | ||
| This is Leonard in Albany, Oregon. | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I have a question for Katerina. | |
| Is that how you say it? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I've always wondered, is it possible, if you haven't ever met any of these alien peoples or anything like that, is it possible for you, if you have a desire to get in contact with them, to contact them without them contacting you? | ||
| Well, I certainly have had my moments where I wanted to relay information to them, and I explained in my book, and I know other abductees have explained, that they can sense when the beings are nearby. | ||
| Sometimes they don't get visited, but they know they're nearby and they might be tuning into them, watching them, listening, or some kind of mental tuning in to the abductee, like to maybe check on them so they're not physically abducted. | ||
| But in those instances, when you sense that, or when I have sensed that, I have given them messages and I've tried to relay my thoughts or what my message was or my information or my question. | ||
| Well, what about somebody who has never had any interaction with them? | ||
| Would you say you're out of your mind for wanting to do such a thing and be careful what you wish for? | ||
| I would definitely say be careful what you wish for because there's a lot more out there besides extraterrestrial beings. | ||
| And if you want to open yourself up, for instance, the Ouija board is a good example. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| If you want to open yourself up, there are spirit beings, you know, there are forces out there that would gladly entertain you and would probably misguide you. | ||
| And I would say be very careful what you wish for. | ||
| I don't think any of us, when we were six years old or five years old, said, gee, I want to be an abductee or I want to be abducted by aliens. | ||
| Well, I'm sure there are some people, Katarina, who listen to this and think, oh, how romantic. | ||
| Oh, it'd be great. | ||
| Boy, what a story I'd have to tell. | ||
| I'd be a unique individual if this happened to me. | ||
| I mean, there are people who, for their own reasons, maybe even self-esteem, Katarina, would like to have this happen. | ||
| Well, I would say that we are all unique. | ||
| You don't have to have this in your life to be special. | ||
| I don't think I'm special at all. | ||
| You know, I'm simply a normal person who happens to be involved, or they happen to be involved with me. | ||
| But I don't, you know, I would feel a little sad for somebody that would really want this in their life. | ||
| It is a wondrous story, you know, but when you look at the whole picture, it's mind-boggling. | ||
| You know, it's the biggest story that, you know, the biggest event that humankind has ever had to look at. | ||
| But you're not thoroughly convinced, are you, that it's real? | ||
| Or are you? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I'm thoroughly convinced that it's real. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And this is 100% real to me. | ||
| Well, a little while ago you said you would hold your mind open. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Like I said, I am right now I believe these are real beings. | ||
| If these aliens are real, they're really coming here. | ||
| But I can't totally close off my mind of the possibility that one day, as we learn more, you know, about our minds and how the brain operates, because we really don't know that much about the brain, who's to say what we're going to learn? | ||
| That really is the truth. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that's something, you know, that's something that, you know, maybe it's just this little window over here with this beam of light shining through that, you know, it's just this little bit of belief that we're going to go in that direction, but I still have it there. | ||
| I just can't totally close off my mind of that possibility. | ||
| Well, it's called an open mind, Katerina. | ||
| Yeah, well, I guess. | ||
| On the wild card line. | ||
| Yeah, really, you know, I believe that this is a real phenomenon affecting us worldwide. | ||
| Good enough. | ||
| On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Katarina Wilson. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| Hi, thanks for letting me be on. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is Carol up in Mount Chasta. | |
| Hi, Carol. | ||
| Two things, Katarina. | ||
| One, I'll take my answers on the air. | ||
| I have a feeling that there are more walking about among us than most would suspect. | ||
| So my question is how many millions are weaseling their way into our society? | ||
|
unidentified
|
And the other is, I'm kind of appalled at your lack of horror. | |
| I mean, you're being used as an experimental guinea pig. | ||
| There's mixing and matching going on by strangers that are messing up our heirs, and I, for one, don't like it. | ||
| I want someone in contact with them to say no. | ||
| All right, a good point. | ||
| First questions first. | ||
| How many millions do you think are walking among us? | ||
| Is it millions? | ||
| Is it a few? | ||
| Is it increasing numbers? | ||
| What do you think, Katerina? | ||
| Well, you know, this is purely speculation on my part. | ||
| And, you know, I really don't know. | ||
| I don't think it's millions, but, you know, what do I know? | ||
| I think that there are probably, I would say, out of the choices, I would say increasing numbers. | ||
| Increasing numbers? | ||
| Yeah, I would say increasing numbers and leave it at that because I don't really know. | ||
| What makes you think, Katerina, that we are not being, in effect, slowly... | ||
| Well, you know, when we talk about the existence of a soul, God, you know, can create many, many different types of beings, not just human beings. | ||
| I think that the mixing is probably, you know, perhaps there are alien souls incarnating on the planet, you know, into this earth plane, if you will. | ||
| And I don't see anything wrong with that. | ||
| I mean, who's to say that I'm not an alien soul? | ||
| You know, who's to say that I don't really belong here because of where my soul originated? | ||
| You know, nobody can really, you know, that's fair. | ||
| That kind of walks us into the second question about your apparent lack of horror at what's going on. | ||
| Now, you do seem fairly comfortable about this, even at times almost joking about it. | ||
| How come? | ||
| Well, my rule is it's okay to laugh at myself, laugh with myself. | ||
| I never laugh at other abductees. | ||
| I don't do that. | ||
| So I have to be able to laugh at myself because it is very difficult. | ||
| It is very painful sometimes, not physical, just physically. | ||
| So then is there physical pain in your life? | ||
| Okay, so is this a protective reaction on your part, Katerina? | ||
| Well, I just, I try to stay balanced and focused. | ||
| And yes, it is very hard. | ||
| And yes, I have my bad days. | ||
| I get down about this. | ||
| You know, when I think about what they're doing, what they're creating, I think about the babies, it hurts. | ||
| It's painful. | ||
| I don't like it. | ||
| But on the other hand, I would like to invite human beings who are listening to consider what we are doing to animals and let's see how they feel about their position. | ||
| You know, we don't know for a fact that animals are not conscious, don't have a soul. | ||
| And I think that, you know, how can we be so mad at what the aliens are doing when what we do to animals is, you know, much, much worse than what has been done to me. | ||
| All right. | ||
| On the wildcard line, you're on the air with Katerina Wilson. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, this is Fitz from Phoenix. | |
| Hello, Fitz. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, Katerina, it's a pleasure to hear how well adjusted you are to the abduction program. | |
| You really are natural. | ||
| Oh, thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I would say this, on your next journey, tell them that you want something in return for your cooperation. | |
| Tell them you want some knowledge about the coming earth changes or any information about concerning a plastic. | ||
| I think you have a good point. | ||
| Maybe I am a little too obedient, and I, you know, could probably incubate some questions. | ||
| If I feel or sense their presence again, I think that's probably a good step for me to take. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, use your leverage. | |
| You're definitely a natural for that. | ||
| I will give it a try. | ||
| All right, Fritz, thank you. | ||
| Yes, he does make a good point. | ||
| If you could ask any question of them, Katerina, and be assured of an answer, what would you ask? | ||
| I would ask for the truth about what they're doing, the truth about them. | ||
| I would like the truth about them, regardless of what that answer is. | ||
| If the whole planet is going to die tomorrow or whether it's a wondrous thing, I want the truth. | ||
| And I do ask them that. | ||
| I do sense their presence before a visit. | ||
| And I try to orient myself, my mind, and I try to relax. | ||
| And I try to just concentrate on the question. | ||
| And nine times out of ten, it's tell me the truth about why you're here and why you're doing this. | ||
| And I've asked that question a lot. | ||
| And what do you get? | ||
| A big silence? | ||
| I don't really get an answer. | ||
| If they've told me it's their decision that I'm not allowed to remember it consciously, there's a chance that I have the answer, but I'm not remembering it on a conscious level. | ||
| And perhaps hypnosis would help, and perhaps I'm not ready. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think I'm ready. | ||
| Is there any point during your abductions when you have been terrified? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| When? | ||
| I believe there is a particular being. | ||
| My experience is I believe it's a type 1, gray. | ||
| I've described this type of being as a mind prober, mind controller. | ||
| And before I realized who they were, they would terrify me because their presence was just so very alien, so different from anything I've experienced. | ||
| Once I realized who they were and what they looked like and that they weren't going to harm me, I was no longer afraid of them. | ||
| And so when I felt that presence, you know, I didn't fear it. | ||
| Now, there is another time. | ||
| The part of my experience is when you read my book, you'll realize that the actual leaving my bed is the part that terrifies me the most because you are literally placed in a different space. | ||
| Leaving not just your bed, really, but your body as well. | ||
| Sometimes I think these are astral projections. | ||
| Katarina, we're at the top of the hour, so rest for about 10 minutes. | ||
| I want to focus on the physical reality of the abduction phenomenon. | ||
| We'll be right back and do that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The End This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast. | |
| From the Kingdom of Node, we continue with your calls on Dreamland with Art Bell. | ||
| Call Art Now, toll-free, at 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| 1-800-618-TALK. | ||
| First time callers, Area Code 702-727-1222. | ||
| 702-727-1222. | ||
| Or the Wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295. | ||
| 727-1295. | ||
| In the 702 area code. | ||
| Now again, here's Art Bell. | ||
| Now again, here I am. | ||
| This is Dreamland. | ||
| Good evening, and it's kind of a big evening in a lot of ways. | ||
| You're welcome, Katarina. | ||
| I've got a fact here, and let me read it in its entirety, and I'll just let you respond to it the way you would like to, all right? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Art, ask Katerina about the meat of this issue. | ||
| What are her feelings about the future? | ||
| Why are so many aliens here at this time in history? | ||
| When does she think there'll be a public appearance? | ||
| Can she at least speculate on the information she thinks the aliens are withholding? | ||
| How about the dreams she's had? | ||
| Regarding these questions, what has she learned from the hundred other abductees she's interviewed? | ||
| 60, actually. | ||
| I can find descriptions of spaceships and encounters in any bookstore. | ||
| The strength of your Dreamland interviews is that they cut through the crap and get to the heart of the matter. | ||
| So can you shed any light on any of those questions? | ||
| Could you repeat a few of them for me? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| What are your feelings about the future? | ||
| Pretty dim. | ||
| Why? | ||
| Well, I was thinking earlier that maybe I should just do a little speculating and not worry so much about what everybody's going to say about, you know, Dr. Overlaid used to say, well, what do you think, Katarina, if you just let your fantasy or your imagination, you know, take this information forward? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So, you know, looking at it that way, if I were to just say, okay, going on what I know and what I feel and goodness, you know, why are they here and all the things that I've seen them doing, it doesn't make a lot of sense that if you were coming to a planet to really help the planet, to help the people of the planet, you know, that you would keep so much information from them and that you would play so many games with them. | ||
| So the lack of their willingness to be open and honest with us is not a real positive thing. | ||
| It leads me to believe that they are hiding or withholding information, that that's not necessarily for our good. | ||
| Now on the other hand, if there's some catastrophic event that's going to happen that they can't keep from happening, let's say an asteroid is going to hit the planet and there's nothing they can do about it, and generally when we have large asteroid strikes, that pretty much wipes out everything. | ||
| Then, you know, if I were an alien race, perhaps scientists, just some of these beings are, I'd probably want to salvage what life I thought was important or what life I thought I could manipulate into being what I wanted it to be. | ||
| Do you feel something like that is on the way? | ||
| I think it's possible. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All right, why? | ||
| I would definitely, I mean, look what we're doing. | ||
| We're manipulating the genetic code of other plants and animals, and this is nothing new for us. | ||
| Soon humans. | ||
| Why are so many aliens here at this time in history, do you think? | ||
| And I guess that goes to the answer you just gave. | ||
| You think something is about to happen. | ||
| Well, I think something is going to happen. | ||
| Yeah, whether it's a man-made catastrophe or if it's an asteroid followed by enormous geologic repercussions, which is what's going to happen if we have a large enough asteroid. | ||
| And I'm not talking about this because Without Warning was on last weekend. | ||
| This is something I published in my book in March, way before the movie came out. | ||
| I think that, you know, you would want to take samples and representations of the life on that planet and perhaps put it back in a million years in some other form or put it on another planet or in a laboratory for that matter. | ||
| So, I mean, I kind of, you know, back when I really didn't know anything about abductions except that I was involved and, oh my God, you know, I've got to figure this out, my first thought back in 1987 or early 88, I remember it was in this different house, it was early 88, was, well, gee, this must be what the rapture is all about. | ||
| You know, how else can you get human bodies off the planet without any trace? | ||
| You know, you beam them up. | ||
| And I, you know, I hate that phrase, it's so Star Trek-y, but, you know, when you can move bodies in white light and blue light, when you can move physical objects and change physical objects and change the molecular structure of people and objects, which apparently these beings can do, you know, that's, to me, back in 1988, I thought, well, that would explain the rapture, that scenario. | ||
| And with all the different pieces of information that people are getting and the different forms that's coming through, whether it be a classical, you know, abduction experiencer case or channeled information, we're all getting a piece of this, this puzzle, whatever you want to call it. | ||
| And it leads everybody, I mean, it's all leading to the direction that some big event is going to happen. | ||
| I'm not going to say it's going to happen in the year 2000, but I think it's going to happen in my lifetime. | ||
| I'm 34 years old, and I think that in my lifetime, I'm going to see a heck of a lot more changes than what I've seen so far. | ||
| All right, Katarina. | ||
| On the toll-free line, you are on the air. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, Art. | |
| Jim in St. Louis. | ||
| Jim in St. Louis. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Hi, Jim. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Katerina, I've got a theory for you, and I'm going to run it by you, and I'd like for you to tell me what you think. | |
| I recently got done reading a book by George C. Andrews in which there were, at many different times and places, law enforcement officials were baffled by outbreaks of waves of like child abductions. | ||
| And I don't mean UFO type thing. | ||
| I mean, they say that statistically there are just not enough clever kidnappers to account for all of the massive numbers of people that are abducted and never come back worldwide. | ||
| All of the missing people. | ||
| Do you have any opinion as to whether some of these many thousands and thousands of people that are gone or missing could be taken up and just never returned? | ||
| It's a good point, Katarina. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, it is. | |
| It's a good question. | ||
| I think some of the people that have disappeared may be abductees that were not returned. | ||
| I think many of the children and adolescents that are disappearing are probably done by a family member. | ||
| And, you know, we're going to find them one day. | ||
| And unfortunately, I think there is another percentage that have been murdered. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Troy, I know. | |
| Bring them back. | ||
| Yeah, I think that's happening. | ||
| I think that accounts for some of the missing people, but certainly not all of them. | ||
| I'm going to kind of add up a lot of questions that S in Santa Barbara has here and simply ask you, have you ever wondered, Katarina, whether you might be an alien? | ||
| Well, yes. | ||
| Gee, I'm going to get kicked out of MUFAN for that one. | ||
| Actually, I have, especially when back in 1988, I told my mother that I really thought there might be something to Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker's abduction experience in Mississippi, which was, you know, back when she didn't know anything about my involvement. | ||
| And this was my way of kind of breaking the subject to her. | ||
| And I said, you know, and what other people are finding out is that there's some kind of interest in our reproductive behavior by the aliens, that they seem interested in our, you know, reproductive aspect. | ||
| And my mother just out of the blue blurted out, well, your father was an alien. | ||
| Your father was probably an alien. | ||
| And, you know, oh, I guess 30 seconds went by before either one of us said anything. | ||
| And it was just like, I was thinking, why the hell did you say alien? | ||
| And alien is not in her vocabulary. | ||
| I mean, she has never said that word in her life. | ||
| And I don't know. | ||
| I have since that time wondered what on earth they could be interested in me for. | ||
| And that's something, you know, when you're looking at genetics and the unusual pregnancy my mother had with me, you know, I wonder if that's... | ||
| Well, she was pregnant and she had it confirmed. | ||
| She went to see her doctor, you know, examinations and everything. | ||
| And in her third month, early fourth month, she went To the doctor, and lo and behold, there's nothing there. | ||
| She's not pregnant anymore. | ||
| She didn't have a miscarriage. | ||
| Really? | ||
| And so she thought, well, that's odd, but my mother just was one of those women that didn't question doctors. | ||
| I don't know how many women really questioned doctors 30, 40 years ago. | ||
| So a few, oh, I can't remember, one or two months later, you know, she goes back thinking she's pregnant. | ||
| He examines her, and she is pregnant. | ||
| And she's well into her pregnancy. | ||
| I think she was again about three months pregnant. | ||
| That is odd. | ||
| And, of course, my mother was hysterical at this point because for some reason, she thought, she told the doctor, she says, I don't know why, but I was hysterical. | ||
| I was crying. | ||
| And I told the doctor that that baby, you know, if it survived in the first place, would never be normal. | ||
| It would just never be a normal baby. | ||
| And he kept assuring me that everything would be okay. | ||
| And that baby was born, and that baby was me. | ||
| But somehow, very deep inside, and a very emotional mother, didn't believe that that baby would ever be born normal. | ||
| Gee, I'm glad I asked the question. | ||
| So, I mean, personally, yeah, I wonder, is there some part of me that's not human? | ||
| And, you know, I just don't know. | ||
| I have, you know, I don't know. | ||
| You would think that the doctors are blood typing. | ||
| Well, as a follow-up comment, Katarina, maybe that accounts for your attitude about all this. | ||
| Perhaps. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Maybe that's something they've told me, you know, that maybe they've told me that I'm not all human or I'm part of them. | ||
| And maybe there's a part of me that believes that or knows that somehow. | ||
| Well, I mean, what about that baby they told you was yours? | ||
| That probably I believe more than anything. | ||
| My mother doesn't make stuff up like that. | ||
| She doesn't know enough about a story like that. | ||
| No, no, Katerina. | ||
| I meant the. | ||
| Oh, about my father? | ||
| No, Katerina. | ||
| The black child that you have. | ||
| Oh, the black child. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, I've seen a lot of children. | ||
| Several, well, two I know were mine. | ||
| I recognize them. | ||
| They recognize me. | ||
| And they weren't completely human children. | ||
| But, yeah, I don't know. | ||
| I think that there are. | ||
| So then, Kenarina, you've been a surrogate mother for aliens three times. | ||
| At least. | ||
| I think it's more like seven times. | ||
| Seven times? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah, and there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about those children. | ||
| And my fantasy about that, if anybody wants to know, is that one day I'll open my door and they're going to be standing there and they're going to live with me. | ||
| You know, that I'm going to be able to be with them. | ||
| Or at least one of them. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Listen, on the toll-free line, you're on the air with Katarina Wilson. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Hello. | ||
| Where are you, sir? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Portland. | |
| Portland. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'd like to ask your guest about two recent guests on your show, Carla Turner and Leah Haley. | |
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And a follow-up question, what does she think about what the government knows about this agenda and what is their part in the intimidation, harassment, and even abduction of abductees? | |
| All right. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| What about that? | ||
| Well, that's an interesting question. | ||
| If you want to talk about being horrified about being abducted by somebody, let's say how would we all feel if we were abducted by our government or members of the military? | ||
| So this is a subject that, yes, Carla Turner has written about and Leah Haley has written about and I have written about. | ||
| We have all seen military government people in our experiences, in our abduction experiences. | ||
| What have you seen? | ||
| I've seen people that I thought a couple of men that I somehow knew were with the CIA. | ||
| I've been in underground bases where they told me they were with the secret government that was above the President of the United States. | ||
| I've seen men in Navy uniforms, Marine uniforms, Army uniforms. | ||
| You know. | ||
| That's a lot. | ||
| I've seen military bases. | ||
| I've watched unusual craft fly, hover. | ||
| All of this is detailed in your book, right? | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| I have over the 32-year timeframe that the book covers, there's 119 experiences, and out of those, there are 14 that involve military government aspects. | ||
| And how do I feel about it? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, gee, I am asking myself, did the radiation experiments ever end? | ||
| Did that aspect of our government ever stop doing what it was doing to people? | ||
| I mean, the Tuskegee Institute experimented on black men and let them die so they could study syphilis. | ||
| We gave radiation tablets to infants. | ||
| I mean, to me, if you can experiment on an infant, anything goes. | ||
| So, I mean, I'm certainly fair game. | ||
| And I asked myself, did these experiments stop? | ||
| Is this part of a continuation of what Marchetti and Marsh talk about in the Manchurian candidate or the cult of the CIA, you know, cult of intelligence, the book about the CIA, the CIA and the cult of intelligence? | ||
| I mean, we experiment on humans just like everybody else. | ||
| All right. | ||
| The caller also asked about a couple of my recent guests, Carla Turner and Leah Haley. | ||
| Do you know them? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| What was the, let's see, relating to the military government aspect? | ||
| Well, they both told stories about. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I know Carla's husband, Casey, had described in detail about an experience that occurred in an underground base with the military, I think. | ||
| Do you know where any of these underground bases actually are? | ||
| Well, one of them, in the experience, I knew I was in Eastern Canada, near the border of the United States in Eastern Canada. | ||
| And that was an underground facility. | ||
| That was the one with the supposedly secret government that... | ||
| I'd been there before. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| I mean, as I was walking toward it, I remembered being there before and knew I was in Eastern Canada. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| And knew that I had been in the underground base before. | ||
| And, you know, I've been told that there is a secret underground military base there, but this was just by somebody whose brother was working there. | ||
| He couldn't even tell me the name of it. | ||
| Okay, back to the telephone lines. | ||
| And on the wildcard line, you're on the air with Katarina Wilson. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| This is Patty from Aloa, Aloa, Oregon. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Gosh, of all the guests that I've heard, nothing personal, young lady, but your listening to you gives me a very uneasy feeling. | ||
| And I would just like to bring up the point about free will. | ||
| I think as human beings, our most precious gift is the gift of free will. | ||
| And it seems like the alien influence and encounters are taking away this precious gift. | ||
| It gives me an uneasy feeling. | ||
| There was a Twilight Zone episode about 20 years ago in which the aliens landed on Earth and there was a wonderful, oh, you know, of course there are some people that reacted violently, but most people were very accepting. | ||
| And they said, well, we're here to serve man. | ||
| We're here to serve man. | ||
| And at the very end of the hour episode, they left behind a book. | ||
| Oh, no one could translate. | ||
| Right. | ||
| No one could translate it. | ||
| One man did and everyone had left and it turned out to be a cook's book. | ||
| And I can't get that image out of my mind. | ||
| And we serve humans. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Boy. | ||
| The only other comment I'd like you to touch on is you keep using what, quote, humans do as if it was a justification. | ||
| Well, we do experiments on animals. | ||
| Well, we do this. | ||
| Well, we do genetic. | ||
| As if that were an excuse, as if that made it right. | ||
| If it's abhorrent for humans to do it, why isn't it abhorrent for aliens to do it? | ||
| And I'll get off the gear and listen to your answer. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, I don't think it's good for aliens to experiment on people. | ||
| You know, I'm not saying because humans experiment on others that it's okay for aliens to experiment on us. | ||
| I'm just saying that if you were visiting a planet and studying the beings or people on that planet, you're going to look at their behavior towards the other species on their planet. | ||
| And all I'm saying when I bring that up is, as far as the alien to human, human to other species, is that I'm just glad that I'm not being as treated as badly as I could be treated. | ||
| I'm not saying I'm enjoying what they're doing. | ||
| I'm not. | ||
| Katerina, I almost share her feeling of unease about the way you presented this, and I think I now know why. | ||
| It's as though you're talking to us human beings as though you are yourself, a third party. | ||
| Have you noticed that's the way you present so many things as though? | ||
| Well, that is what I feel my role is. | ||
| My involvement in all of this, and that's the one thing I'm pretty darn sure of, is that I feel like I'm supposed to be some kind of spokesperson or educator, and I try to remain neutral, and I try to present both sides of, you know, whatever, of the information that I have. | ||
| And I try to do it in a neutral way. | ||
| You know, I can get all upset and hate the aliens and, you know, instill a lot of fear and negativity in everybody, but I don't see that as being very productive. | ||
| Now, as far as the government goes, I'm not by any means saying that it's okay for the government to do what they did and what I'm speculating they might be doing now. | ||
| All right, Katarina, hold that thought. | ||
| We're at the bottom of the hour. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
| Katarina Wilson is my guest. | ||
| And when I meant as a third party, Katarina, you might think about this as we come back from the break. | ||
| I meant as a non-human third party. | ||
| We'll be back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is a pre-recorded, previously broadcast program. | |
| From the Kingdom of Nineveh. | ||
| You're here in Dreamland with Art Bell. | ||
| To participate in the program, call toll-free, 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| First time callers, area code 702-727-1222. | ||
| Or the wildcard line at 702-727-1295. | ||
| This is the CBC Radio Network. | ||
| It is, and we're interviewing Katarina Wilson this evening. | ||
| Very, very interesting guest. | ||
| And this is beginning to head in a direction that is particularly fascinating. | ||
| We'll get back to her in just a moment. | ||
| First, a word. | ||
| Okay, back now to Katarina Wilson. | ||
| And Katarina, I've got another fax here for you. | ||
| Dear Art, please ask your guest, Katarina, what happened to the life force of the five-year-old whose body was taken over by the gray? | ||
| Was the child a hybrid without a soul? | ||
| Are all of these babies without souls? | ||
| Also, I can't help but ask about the black child who was supposedly hers and her fiancé's. | ||
| Has she seen it again? | ||
| And what are your feelings toward that child? | ||
| Well, that's a lot of questions. | ||
| Was the child a hybrid, do you think, without a soul? | ||
| No, my personal opinion about life is that if there's a life, there's a soul. | ||
| Now, to me, the gray was a live gray, you know, with a life force. | ||
| The little child was alive. | ||
| He had a life force. | ||
| It was almost like a sharing or like the gray was contributing his life force. | ||
| And there were, it made the blonde, the little kid, the blonde-haired boy, more than what he was before. | ||
| Like he had more energy. | ||
| He was more of a whatever, you know, a person, if you want to say. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| But it wasn't, I did feel that the Gray's body then did not have a life to it, that that soul was gone. | ||
| The life force was gone. | ||
| Right, that the Gray died because of that. | ||
| All right, with reference to that child, which you said was yours, she asked, did you ever notice any subtle changes in your body, or was that a test tube baby from start to finish? | ||
| With my experiences, most of it is most of this genetic manipulation. | ||
| The pregnancies are artificially created. | ||
| I did have an experience during which they told me that my baby was in the spindle phase, which is during the initial stages of cell when the cell splits during mitosis. | ||
| Now, that happens hours after the sperm and egg meet. | ||
| And this is not something, I mean, we can do this, we can watch this. | ||
| I mean, if you've watched the learning channel, you've seen this under a microscope. | ||
| But, you know, we can't determine that somebody's pregnant that early on. | ||
| Our tests just don't show that. | ||
| But they can tell when it's in the spindle phase. | ||
| So I mentioned this in the book. | ||
| I think that they can artificially inseminate and remove before a woman will even know she's pregnant. | ||
| From Santa Barbara, why would a person not want to remember that they were a member, they were a member of an alien race? | ||
| Did I say that? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I have no idea why somebody wouldn't want to remember if they were a member of an alien race or not. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think it would be an individual decision. | ||
| I mean, some people might, some people might not. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, again, I noticed, Katerina, that the way you're approaching all this is almost from a third-party point of view, almost from an alien point of view, almost as if to say to the audience, don't worry about all this. | ||
| Your attitude says don't worry about this or that it's all right. | ||
| I'm not saying it's all right. | ||
| And I don't mean to imply that I'm saying, you know, what's happening is okay, but I don't want people to expect me to be, because I'm a woman and I'm an adductee, I am not going to view myself as a victim. | ||
| And if people don't like my presentation or uncomfortable with the neutrality of that, that's because they're trying to place me in a category where, oh, it should be poor Katerina, all she's been through. | ||
| Yeah, I went through that, and I'm really glad I'm not there anymore because it's not fun to wallow around in self-pity. | ||
| I'm an abdicee. | ||
| I'm having experiences. | ||
| I know I have free will. | ||
| I'm not a weak-willed person because I'm being abducted. | ||
| You know, I'm trying to present the information. | ||
| I'm not going to get emotional about it because that doesn't do anybody any good, and I don't want people to view me as a victim, and I don't want people to feel sorry for me. | ||
| And that's my presentation. | ||
| I've been there. | ||
| I'm not going to go back. | ||
| All right, good enough. | ||
| Toll-free line, you're on the air with Katarina Wilson. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, Art. | |
| This is Tom in Seattle. | ||
| Hello, Tom. | ||
|
unidentified
|
A couple of questions for Katerina. | |
| Sure. | ||
| Number one, what did the life force of the alien that went into the child look like? | ||
| You said you saw it. | ||
| And number two, I heard a UFO speaker present the theory that the grays are here to do something that had lost their emotions and that they needed to hybrid with us to get this emotional capacity restored to them. | ||
| All right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That was their purpose. | |
| Katerina? | ||
| Okay, the life horse, gee, I can only describe it as the way I would know that a male alien is a male, a female alien is a female, you know, it's an inner knowing what's going on. | ||
| But also it was like I saw, oh, I don't know, I don't want to say it's a light, but more of just an energy going from the gray into the little boy. | ||
| And that's the best way I can describe that. | ||
| You know, I know that you present that in a positive way, but again, I find it kind of chilling because it... | ||
| I'm saying I was deeply hurt and depressed the next day. | ||
| I mean, I was on the phone with my abductee buddy here in Portland, and I was telling her about it. | ||
| I know, but your emotions were for the gray, as I recall, right? | ||
| You were sorry to say. | ||
| Well, yeah, I mean, the little boy was fine. | ||
| He went off and started playing. | ||
| Yeah, he teleported himself, picked up a little ball, threw it through a little circular hoop-like thing, like maybe a basketball-type thing. | ||
| And he just went in the playroom and started playing with his toys. | ||
| He was fine. | ||
| He was happy. | ||
| He was strengthened. | ||
| And the gray was gone. | ||
| And the gray was an empty shell. | ||
| And I saw it as kind of a sacrifice, but how do we know, you know, on the other hand, that the gray doesn't have now a better body? | ||
| And maybe the little boy agreed to share his body. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't look at that as possession. | ||
| I know some people might, but the little boy was fine. | ||
| He was strong and healthy and went on to play. | ||
| All right. | ||
| On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Katarina Wilson. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, this is. | |
| Let me turn my radio down. | ||
| Hi, thank you. | ||
| Where are you calling from, sir? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm calling from San Diego, California. | |
| All right, Cogo. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I was just wondering, I'm not wanting to blaspheme or nothing like that, but I was considering a lot of different references in the Bible to alien presences and stuff like that. | |
| And? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I was referring to angels. | |
| Uh-huh. | ||
|
unidentified
|
As far as the angel descended from the sky. | |
| Oh, yes, there have been such references. | ||
| Yeah, it is an interesting question, Katerina. | ||
| do you think the references in the Bible, and there have been many, that people interpret that way anyway, are referring to the aliens? | ||
| I think that the most important term, the most important phrase that we need to mention here is human beings' interpretation. | ||
| I believe that there is a possibility that some of the human beings interpreted an alien as an angel. | ||
| I also think that there's a good chance that angels are angels. | ||
| And so, yes, I think maybe some of the interpretations in the Bible of angels might have been an extraterrestrial being. | ||
| Some of the extraterrestrial beings we're hearing about, you know, light beings, white robes, floating. | ||
| They're surrounded by white light. | ||
| They come and they speak about God and the God force and wonderful positive messages. | ||
| Who's to say that's not an angel? | ||
| You know, and we're calling them extraterrestrial. | ||
| So I don't know. | ||
| I'm not a scholar of the Bible. | ||
| So I think that there is human interpretation. | ||
| All right. | ||
| On the toll-free line, you're on the air with Katerina Wilson. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| What can you tell us about missing time? | ||
| All right. | ||
| Yes, thank you. | ||
| I'm glad you brought that back up. | ||
| Where are you calling from, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
San Diego. | |
| San Diego. | ||
| Missing time. | ||
| Well, missing time is a phenomenon that's often associated with an abduction. | ||
| And generally, you know, people will be going about their normal activities and will suddenly realize an hour or two, sometimes more, has passed. | ||
| And it only feels like a minute, you know, has gone by. | ||
| And a lot of times there's just no memory. | ||
| You know, you're washing dishes at the sink, it's 1 o'clock, and all of a sudden you're standing at the sink and there are the dishes, and it's 4 o'clock, and you have no memory. | ||
| Some people have memory of, you know, being with aliens and on their craft. | ||
| But that's kind of it in a nutshell. | ||
| I asked somebody here in Portland, a friend of mine, who, you know, the last thing I would expect him to say is that he's involved in this. | ||
| And I said, well, you know, have you ever been doing something, you know, driving along or, you know, working in your house or something? | ||
| And then all of a sudden noticed that a lot of time went by that you couldn't account for. | ||
| And just out of the blue, I mean, this person just about broke down into tears and started talking about, well, I was at this flashing yellow light and I was going to turn right. | ||
| And I was at a flashing yellow light. | ||
| And the next thing I know, I'm on Mount St. Helens in my car, you know, up at the visitor center. | ||
| That would bring a person to tears. | ||
| He broke down. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And I had no idea this person had anything like this. | ||
| I mean, I don't even recall why I asked him the question. | ||
| But that's an example. | ||
| I mean, and to know that you're missing hours out of your day can be upsetting. | ||
| You know, for a lot of people, it's, oh, gee, that's odd. | ||
| And they go about doing what they were doing, and maybe 20 years later, it gets upsetting. | ||
| Then for some reason, you know, they put two and two together. | ||
| They remember something they didn't remember before, and they go, oh, my God, that didn't make sense. | ||
| Where do those five hours go? | ||
| Or two hours? | ||
| Interestingly, Katerina, a lot of the best researchers in ufology for years and years researched and looked into sightings. | ||
| They finally, most of them, became satisfied the sightings were real, the craft really were here. | ||
| Now they have turned to people like you as the best avenue, they say, of continued research, abductees. | ||
| Do you agree with that? | ||
| Well, I think we're a logical resource for information. | ||
| Now, with the kinds of experiences where you have your classical abduction case, you have teaching dreams, you have visions, theatrical scenarios, teaching dreams, you know, those kind of things going on, I have always thought that it's important to look at all of those, not just on-the-table examinations. | ||
| And so I think that you can learn a lot about the alien psychology and perhaps learn more about what they're up to by looking at these other kinds of experiences. | ||
| During all of these examinations, probes, pregnancies, or just removal of oval, have they hurt you? | ||
| Physically? | ||
| They've hurt me physically and they've hurt me mentally. | ||
| The physical pain, as any woman who's born a child will tell you, passes, and it does. | ||
| You know, I don't enjoy physical pain. | ||
| I have gotten out of bed and fallen to the floor because I couldn't walk. | ||
| I've had blood on my sheets. | ||
| I've had puncture wounds in my body. | ||
| That doesn't feel good, but it heals. | ||
| I think the hardest thing is the mental wounds, the anxiety, the constant anxiety. | ||
| Okay, I know they're going to come back. | ||
| When is it going to be? | ||
| But you cannot focus on that. | ||
| You cannot keep focusing on the what-ifs, what if, what if, I'm scared, I'm frightened, yeah. | ||
| But you have to get beyond that, or you're never going to have a life. | ||
| I mean, we have a life here. | ||
| We have a right to live our life the best we can, even though all this other stuff is going on. | ||
| And the people that are successful at getting beyond that, like myself and a lot of other people, shouldn't be blamed or looked upon with suspicion because we've gotten through it. | ||
| I think we should be commended for our strength and that we're willing to move on and willing to share our information. | ||
| Have you been abducted since your book? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How frequent is it? | ||
| Oh, I would say once a month, sometimes more, maybe two or three months without something. | ||
| And then, you know, abductions aren't always, I mean, they're not Regular. | ||
| You can have an abduction every night for four days, five nights or something. | ||
| And then you may not have one for three months or a year. | ||
| I don't go as long as a year. | ||
| I think the longest I've gone is, you know, since 1987 is about four months. | ||
| What have you tried to do to prevent it? | ||
| I have I pray every day, which is not something I did prior to 1987. | ||
| I believe in a God force, and when I feel low and I feel down or I'm just tired of it, you know, I pray. | ||
| And I focus on the creative force. | ||
| And, you know, although I want the truth And I know that the truth might be painful. | ||
| There are times when I'm tired of the deception, and I know I have free will, and I don't give them permission. | ||
| You know, I don't lie in bed at night and say, okay, come get me. | ||
| I'm in the mood. | ||
| I don't do that. | ||
| That's not how it works. | ||
| And I do want the truth. | ||
| And I don't know in the end what is really going to take place. | ||
| I guess none of us know that. | ||
| If I knew, goodness, I'd certainly tell everybody. | ||
| I want to before the show ends, I want to be able to give out my address. | ||
| By all means. | ||
| Go ahead and do it now. | ||
| Yeah, let me do that. | ||
| If anybody is interested in the book and you want an autographed copy, of course you can get it at Barnes and Noble's at Christmas. | ||
| should be available, but it's Puzzle Publishing, and it's P.O. Box 230023, and that's Portland, Oregon, and the zip code is 97281-0023. | ||
| And post-pay, the book's $26.95, and I'll be happy to sign up for you. | ||
| Also, if you have any questions or comments, please feel free to write. | ||
| Okay, give the address again, please. | ||
| Oh, P.O. Box 230023, Portland, Oregon, 97281-0023. | ||
| And you'll autograph a copy? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Autograph all my books, except for the ones that go into the bookstore. | ||
| Those orders are kind of big. | ||
| All right, so if they want an autographed copy, they're going to need to say, All right. | ||
| Post office box 230023. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Portland, Oregon, 97281-0023. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Is that correct? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, I very much have enjoyed having you here, Katarina. | ||
| You've been a very unusual and different kind of interview as an abductee. | ||
| You have a very different attitude. | ||
| Has anybody ever told you that? | ||
| I am told that most often after I present lectures and things, and I get a lot of mail, a lot of people actually just about, well, everybody's always complimentary. | ||
| They like my presentation. | ||
| They appreciate the fact that I haven't tried to scare them, that I am, you know, I try to remain neutral. | ||
| But, you know, of course, tonight we heard a little, some other attitudes. | ||
| No, it isn't interesting. | ||
| It doesn't surprise me. | ||
| No, I think it's a very interesting and different sort of perspective. | ||
| I think people are used to viewing, we're in an age of victimization. | ||
| I mean, my God, you've never seen anything like that before. | ||
| I mean, the 90s are the decade of victimization. | ||
| Well, don't be one. | ||
| Katarina, we've got to go. | ||
| Okay, okay. | ||
| Well, I want to say thank you, and it's been an honor to be able to share my information with everybody. | ||
| And thank you so much for having me on Dreamland. | ||
| Thank you, Katarina. | ||
| You take care. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| That's going to do it, everybody. | ||
| We are absolutely out of time. | ||
| It has been, as always, a great pleasure. | ||
| I would like to tell you to order a copy of this program. | ||
| It was a very interesting program. | ||
| Or any Dreamland program we do, or to order a copy of our newsletter with your Visa and MasterCard. | ||
| Please call 1-800-917-4278. | ||
| Let me give that number one more time. | ||
| It's our new tape number, and for the newsletter as well, it's 1-800-917-4278. | ||
| This has been Dreamland, a very different and unusual kind of program. | ||
| And we will continue in this same vein with another guest next week. | ||
| And I'll be promoing that guest on my weekday show beginning Monday night, Tuesday morning through Friday night, Saturday morning, called Coast to Coast AM. | ||
| Thank you all from High Desert. |
Export Selection