Reverend Heber Jentzsch, Scientology’s president since 1981, defends his religion’s science-based approach—IRS-recognized in 1993 after 40 years of dispute—claiming it addresses 60-65% of illnesses via trauma resolution, with Dianetics selling 17M copies. He dismisses evolution, ties AIDS to alleged 1950s CIA experiments, and predicts Scientology’s 2,000-year survival while rejecting Western conspiracy theories like the Trilateral Commission. Bell interjects with fringe claims—from flesh-consuming diseases in Seattle to global welfare schemes—questioning media credibility and Clinton’s policies, though Jentzsch insists Scientology’s enlightenment ("clear") rivals Eastern traditions without dogma. [Automatically generated summary]
I bid you good evening, good morning in some areas, and welcome to that first and or last hour of Coast to Coast A.M.P.M. Which is what I guess I have to call it at this hour.
There's not really much choice, is there?
To the Reverend Heber Gentsch, I believe somewhere down near the L.A. area, probably.
Well, first of all, Scientology is an applied religious philosophy.
It deals with you as an individual, you as a spiritual being.
We understand that man is a spiritual being, that he has a mind, which is not your brain.
I know the psychiatrists say it's your brain.
It's not your brain.
And you have a body, and that you can affect the body through the mind.
We also, it's not a belief system or a dogma.
It is a religion which is based upon scientific principles and which draws the Eastern thought of how the whole concept of man as a spiritual being from the East and then uses Western technology to combine and to help the person understand who he is, what he is, where he's going, what he's doing.
And it is something which is you use practical rules and principles in Scientology to remove past problems, past stops in your life, traumatic incidents of the past, which then gives you a better capability to do what you want to do to achieve your goals in present time.
So it is not something which people just believe.
It's not something which is a dogma.
It is something which a person can apply in his life and see changes in his life.
And again, it's not a thing where you have to believe in something for it to occur.
It's you do something yourself using the principles of Scientology.
You make up your own mind whether it works.
It doesn't matter what I say or what you say or what anybody else says.
You discover for yourself its workability and that's its value.
It's a very practical, applied religious philosophy.
Yes, I mean, you know, it comes from the religion, it comes from the word relegare to bind back.
Religion has always dealt with the concept of the human spirit.
Nothing else has ever dealt with that.
And it's always been the province of religion, at least.
And Scientology certainly fits that.
In fact, on October the 1st in 1993, the Church of Scientology has got full recognition by the Internal Revenue Service for all of its churches and It's various public organizations, charitable organizations recognizing that they were established and are established for religious and charitable purposes.
Further, that ended the 40-year war that we had had with the Internal Revenue Service.
We had gotten into a long-term battle based on the fact that in 1950, 21 days after Mr. Hubbard wrote the book Dianetics, Modern Science and Mental Health, the American Money Association, and better known probably is the American Medical Association, along with the American Psychiatric Association, got together and issued papers and letters to each other at first saying, I don't know what this is, but we don't like it.
Let's get rid of it.
They felt that if psychosomatic illnesses could be resolved, and which they could, by the man in the street who had now, for the first time, workable technology which dealt with the mind, it would encroach upon a very lucrative area of their control.
Well, to give that Reverend, a little power, there was a study that came out the other day about people who are given pills, sugar pills, you know, that do absolutely nothing.
60 or I forget perhaps 70 percent of them had a positive reaction because, just because they thought they were getting something that was going to cure them.
Sure, and you know, that shows the power of the mind.
And, of course, when Dianetics came out, Mr. Hubbard discovered that the mind was composed of pictures, that people recorded things in the mind by making pictures of things.
I mean, if I ask you what you had for breakfast, you probably get a picture of what you had for breakfast right there.
But then there's the other side of the mind, which is called the reactive mind.
And that mind deals with moments of pain or unconsciousness or threat or loss and that sort of thing.
And that mind is just below one's consciousness, but it can affect an individual because things are said.
And it's interesting, Mr. Hubbard brought this out in 1950.
But at that time, he was way ahead of his time.
And he said, look, when people talk around an unconscious person, it can affect them.
I've seen a lot of press in the last five, six years saying that doctors are saying they should be quiet in the operating room because things that are said affect the person adversely.
Well, that was something which he brought out back in 1950.
So, you know, I was thinking of a sort of a classic case, an individual who fell from a cliff about 20 or so feet in Hawaii while he was doing climbing, and people stood around, and he was unconscious and saying, boy, it looks like he'll never walk again.
And he'd broken his legs.
Anyway, he went to a hospital and his legs were healed, but he had an extreme difficult walking, difficulty walking.
There was nothing physically wrong with him.
But again, by using Dianetics, he was able to go back in time to sort of rerun that subconscious tape, that video recording, if you will, or that tape recording of what had occurred, and then heard the people saying, oh, he'd probably never walk again and so forth.
And that restored his capability to walk because it was psychosomatic.
Well, because it's an exact technology of how to deal with the mind.
It's a way of approaching that subconscious part of the mind in what we call Dianetics, meaning through the mind, going back and locating the exact moment of pain or unconsciousness, what was said, being able to review that.
And without drugs, without hypnosis or anything like that, anyone can do it who can read a book and read Dianetics.
There's ways listed in there to do that.
But it's a very precise technology.
And when I say technology, that probably is something people don't necessarily understand.
But technology indicates that it's something if you do it repetitively, you can always get a result.
Well, that is what is new in the spirit.
And Dianetics has now sold almost 17 million copies internationally.
And Mr. Hubbard's works on Scientology, Dianetics, and other writings now number about 155 million in the public arena.
Well, first of all, we hold that an individual may have his own particular belief system about what God is.
It's not a dogma, so we don't tell him that this is what God is.
But we do say there is a supreme being.
We recognize that there is a supreme being.
And since Scientology is pandenominational, people can come in from all kinds of religions.
In fact, a lot of times you'll find out that people will have a dual membership.
They may be Jewish and they might be Scientologists at the same time, but they'll have their own concept of what God is.
And I think we sort of approach it from the Buddhist tradition, which is you understand yourself first as a spiritual being, and then later on you can understand your relationship to the Supreme Being.
Not reincarnation where the concept people come back as animals or whatever other things.
Man, a spiritual being comes back in a body and lives again.
Now, I realize that that sort of goes against a lot of the Western tradition, but it's certainly something which has been billions of people have followed for years and years in the Eastern tradition.
So it's more in the Eastern tradition.
You live again, and one has more than one life.
And, of course, that's kind of interesting, too, because, again, Mr. Hubbard found this with Dianetics back in 1950, and he said, well, this is a phenomenon that people talk about having lived before.
And then I read this stuff in the last three or four years, and there's people hopping on the bandwagon as if that was something that they had totally discovered anew, finding that if you counsel people about having lived in past lives, that they live better lives, they felt better, they had greater health.
So Mr. Hubbard was way ahead of his time when he wrote the book, Dianetics, Modern Science, and Mental Health.
I mean, but I also studied extensively to do that.
You know, understand that I, before I came into the Church of Scientology, that I went to college and I graduated from the University of Utah out there in Salt Lake City.
So I know what it takes in terms of getting a degree and the kind of study that one does for the various subjects in order to major in those subjects.
In order for me to become a minister, I spent just for that particular level, the equivalent of four years in college in a major to arrive at that particular point.
So there are basic studies that one does, learning about the mind, learning about the counseling techniques of Scientology, which are very precise and very well articulated.
So I had to do all of that before I became a minister.
And it's a regimen.
It's not something easily or simply given to an individual.
And certainly there are the conflicts where the Russian Orthodox Church coming back into power is concerned about other religions.
But of course, Russia has always been a place of many different ethnicities and different religions if one looks at the traditions going back through the centuries.
So it certainly isn't something new.
Scientology, though, in that sense, is new in that we're talking about the precision of counseling.
We're talking about a way to understand the mind, a way to understand oneself spiritually.
I think there was a bit of controversy back, certainly there was controversy back in the 60s and 70s.
But over the last five or seven years, it's changed quite a bit.
As a matter of fact, Church Scientology was quite involved with 63 other organizations, all the mainline religions in the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.
That was the famous Smith case that occurred up there in the Pacific Northwest, where essentially the Supreme Court ruled that the First Amendment and religion was not an inalienable right, but a privilege granted by the state.
So we worked along side by side with Catholics, with Mormons, with Baptists, with the Protestants, with Jewish faith.
I mean, it was an incredible gathering together of all religions, and Scientology was very much involved in that.
In fact, I had the opportunity to go back there and to speak when Clinton signed that into law.
And we were called by the White House and invited to the White House.
I think that's over.
And I think the recognition of the Church of Scientology by the Internal Revenue Service, and by the way, that was the most assiduous, exhaustive examination in the history of this country that was done on the churches of Scientology to see whether or not they should pass scrutiny and to receive as an entire organization their recognition as religious and charitable organizations and being established for religious and charitable purposes.
We passed that test.
So, no, I think that that conflict is gone.
I think there might be some residual noise out there, but Scientology has arrived as a religion.
And certainly, I work with Catholics.
I work with Jewish people.
I work with people of all faiths.
In fact, I'm a member of a group called the American Conference on Religious Movements.
It's been around for eight years.
And, you know, there are Catholics.
There are Methodists, Protestants on that board.
The head of the dean of the religious studies at Catholic University, William Senkmere, is on the board, and myself, and a friend of mine, Moz Durst from the Unification Church.
And we have brought together religions of all kinds and created dialogues with this organization for the last eight years.
Well, I think that Nancy Ammerman's report, which was part of the Justice Department's report, is a very key point to look at.
And the fact that Nancy Emmerman brought up the fact that the anti-religious group activities, I call them the Criminal Association Network, their involvement in inciting that Waco situation is something which she was deeply concerned about.
That was one major point that she brought up, that they were the inciters of that issue.
And the other point she brought out, which was extremely important, was the failure of the agencies involved, FBI, ATF, to use religious people who understood what the situation was, who offered their services to do negotiations and so forth, and they were denied that right to do it.
And not only Nancy Ammerman's presentation to the Justice Department is important.
I've had the opportunity to meet with a number of religious leaders around the country who are deeply, deeply disturbed about what occurred down there.
And I know that James Dunn, who is the head of the Joint Baptist Committee representing, I don't know, about 30 million Baptists in America, and the former director, James Wood, who was at Baylor University right there in Waco, I mean, James Wood is there.
James Dunn is in Washington, D.C. Both were extremely concerned about this.
And James Dunn and Dean Kelly, the National Council of Churches Religious Freedom Committee, both offered to go in there.
And I know others who did the same and were denied the opportunity to go in there.
What they were told was, well, we have our own professionals, and what they depended upon were psychiatrists.
And of course, these people here from the Criminal Association Network, there's an article written by In the Nation by Alexander Coburn, May 9th, 1994, and people might pick that up because it's a rather strong analysis of what occurred in that situation down there.
And it involves the person who had held one of the Davidians for five days over here in Glendale, California, and, quote, deprogrammed him and then taken him to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms as a former Davidian and used him as a key person to file complaints against the Davidians.
And again, it was indicated by Emmerman's report that taking people with such extreme animosity as was presented here to then express themselves against that group really did not serve a good purpose.
And of course, it was horrible.
I just came back from Europe two days ago, and people over there are appalled such a thing happened.
In fact, they are terrified about such a thing.
And I was interested.
The commentary comes down to this.
At a place called East Grinstead, there's a St. Swithin's Church.
And as you walk around the yard, I just saw this last week, there are three tombstones.
And in Latin, it is the ashes of the last three witches which were buried in 1567 or 1557, burned at the stake in England, and it says they were of the other faith.
So my point simply being that the hysteria being generated here in America has really a two-sided sort of seems to be two-sided at least, but the point is we have plurality of religion over here.
You know, there's only one church in England.
It's the Anglican Church.
Other churches are registered as religious charitable organizations.
That's kind of fascinating.
There's just that one church.
Over here, we have a plurality.
There are a lot of different churches.
That's how the Constitution was set up.
And I just want to make a point that religions do have a right to exist in America.
They may be different, and they may have different philosophies, different religions, but that is America, and that's what's made America strong.
And I think the respect for each other's religions is extremely important, and it's something that should be developed rather than something which should be played against each other.
It's very inclusive because people of all religions join Scientology.
And I mean, we've had people who, as I say, from many different faiths and even no faith, because as one becomes a part of Scientology and studies it, one finds that he has a greater understanding of himself, a greater feeling for others, and then he wants to help other people.
And I think that's why we've been able to take 100,000 people off of drugs.
Again, we have a very an existing technology that deals with drug addiction and drug problems, and we've been able to deal with that.
You know, when somebody drives down the street and he's on a drug and he crashes into your car and does a hit-on collision, he gets out and says, well, I'm sorry I killed your family and so forth, but I have a right to take my drugs.
I don't think you can put people into vehicles and flying airplanes and driving cars and trains and everything else who are on drugs.
All right, well, for the purpose of this discussion, I'm going to have to take a position that I don't necessarily believe in, but why wouldn't we treat drugs legalized as we treat alcohol?
In other words, alcohol is out there and it's a big problem, but you can't drive legally under the influence of alcohol.
Well, because that's the big promotional push by the psychiatrists who love to put people on drugs saying, oh, yeah, hey, listen, it's great, you know, and they call them recreation drugs out here.
The pet project that I know you have, and it was the only thing I knew about you before this interview, was with regard to government openness, the radiation tests the government has done, the above-ground testing they did that I think may have affected you.
You said you lived in Utah.
And the testing our government is doing generally, chemical, biological, and so forth.
Yeah, there's a much larger picture which you bring up here, and it's an important picture, especially Las Vegas, Nevada, or anyone in the States, because everyone in the States was hit by atomic fallout.
There's two points I want to bring up.
I mean, I grew up in Utah, and so I was a recipient of radiation fallout.
When I was 15 years of age, I almost died of radiation burns, which the government chose not to tell the people out there that they were recipients of heavy fallout.
And for them to say now that, well, we just didn't know what it was doing, we were trying to find out, is absolutely insane.
You know, I have to characterize it almost humorously, but it's just insane because reading documents from 1946, top secret, they knew what they were doing.
They knew that it would create problems.
They knew that I mean, I was trained in the Army in handling nuclear casualties.
So I know the extent of what it can do to an individual.
And, you know, this is something which I think people have to look at.
So I saw, you know, I saw an incredible amount of devastation out there.
I saw lives being just destroyed.
And I have lost a lot of friends in Utah who died, unfortunately, at a very young age.
And again, we weren't told what they were doing.
We didn't know the level of destruction that was occurring at the time.
Along with that, at the same time, people don't realize that there was also this problem, which was that the government was also involved in biological weapons, chemical weapons, and experimenting vastly on the American public, where a lot of people died.
Let me just say, you know, that is such a devastating question and it's such a devastating disease.
But it seems to be so sophisticated that one has to wonder about it.
Let me just say that when we were doing a bunch of work on the issue of biological weapons, a lady came to me about 1978, maybe as late as 79, but right around there, 78 and 79.
And we'd been publishing some stuff at that time.
She walked in.
She said that her husband had been a person working at Edgewood, Maryland, where a lot of this stuff went on.
And she said that he died of his entire immune deficiency system breaking down, that he had worked on so many different biological weapons and taken so many different types of antidotes for it that his body had just completely deteriorated and had no longer any defense systems.
And I heard that back in before I'd ever heard of AIDS, by the way.
And she was trying to get the government to give her restitution for his death, and they just said it was job-related.
Yeah, well, that's interesting.
I never saw that lady again, but it has always stuck in my mind, where did it come from?
And that one little anecdote, that one remembrance, has bothered me.
On top of that, when I have seen the CIA in the 50s developing special biological weapons which would kill ethnic minorities as they did with black children using a hooping cough virus in the 50s down in Palmetto,
Florida, we went through 10,000 documents the CIA gave us under the Freedom of Information Act and slowly, meticulously pieced together a mosaic of horror where the CIA had run this operation and killed, well, 12 kids died, 11 were black, 400 came down with it.
It was a really major epidemic.
But it was engineered by CIA agents going down there to see if they could develop biological weapons which would attack certain groups and certain minorities.
Now, we both know that if you allow that to happen, that a lot of destruction can occur.
And also, if allowing that to happen and the fact that it occurred that long ago in the 50s, they have continued to develop weapons of magnitude.
Where are they now?
And is, I mean, the question does have to be asked.
And I think that, again, under the Freedom of Information Act, as folks want to know, is AIDS a biologic that got loose?
Well, I'm terribly worried about it because I don't have an exact document on it.
But, you know, when I see these documents of disease after disease and targeting ethnic minorities in America for decimation and developing the weapons and spending, who knows, hundreds of millions of dollars to do it, it bothers me.
I have a letter here from January 1, 1990 from Channel 9 KUSA up in Denver to a couple of our folks, and he writes at the end of this something which really disturbs me.
This is 1990, by the way.
In case you're interested in the current Defense Department research in this field, this is chemical biological warfare, I'm enclosing an extra copy of the environmental impact statement for the Army Biological Defense Program.
The Army is spending more than $100 million a year to experiment with and even to genetically alter some of the most dangerous pathogens known, everything from encephalitis to snake toxin.
And he goes on, one has to know, in other words, I am deeply grateful to what Helen O'Leary has done at the Department of Energy level to expose the past issues of radiation and what had occurred in the experimentation, much of which still has to be released and has not been released.
What I am terrified about is that the terrified, but deeply concerned about, is the chemical and biologics that also were being released in those years, and the attention has not yet gone on to really releasing the information on that level.
Yeah, what they did in San Francisco, and they did it in some other places, was they took some pathogenic type of germs, and they said, well, at first they said, well, it's just harmless.
It's not going to harm anybody.
And they took ships off the coast there, and they ran a fog of these germs and released them in the wind so that they drifted over through the bay.
And then throughout the San Francisco area, they had these little receptor points that they had placed, not telling the people what they're doing, by the way, where they could pick up the germs and they could figure out how fast they traveled, at what intensities, and so forth.
It was found out later that those pathogens that they released caused people with emphysema and people who had respiratory problems.
They documented a death in that particular case.
We don't know how many other peoples died with it, but that was an experiment done in San Francisco.
Then you go to the other coast, and there in Georgia, for example, they were releasing hundreds of millions of mosquitoes, and they selected an area where it was a black or African-American housing area, which hit these folks.
And then when we exposed that information, went back and folks wrote in and told us about a number of diseases that had happened, stillborn babies which had occurred because of that.
It just went on and on and on.
Well, the point simply being that it was in Savannah, for example, you know, these people were talking about mysterious diseases, deaths from unknown causes in the neighborhood and so on, and unknown diseases.
Infants died.
24 years later, people are having heart trouble caused by mosquito-induced problems.
They didn't tell these people what they were doing.
They didn't tell them they were releasing it.
Again, here's the government experimenting on the public.
I have in front of me just interesting three documents from the CIA, Top Secret Classification.
Let me just read you two or three of these little paragraphs because it sort of leads to what you were just talking about at the break.
Here's one.
It's dated 9 November 1962.
It's a date initiated, MKUltra 1958.
It says, cutouts for drugs and other materials, and then development and testing of anti-material systems, biological hydrogen systems, personnel marking systems, and biological weapon harassment systems, provides facility for large-scale production of microorganisms, provides general advisory and developmental services in the biological weapon area.
In that same project, Sub-Project 78, dated 28 September 57, it says, purpose, to provide complete microbiological support, ranging from research establishing production capabilities to meet Technical Services Division special requirements to provide special materials, as well as general advisory and system developmental service in connection with the overall microbiological and biological program.
Provides cover and access cutout for special jobs.
And here's a paragraph.
This last one is marked warning, notice defense intelligence source and methods involved, eyes only, top secret.
It says, A, and it's all blanked out.
You know, people who are not familiar with it, they black out a lot of sections.
Develops, evaluates, and maintains a variety of biological materials suitable for covert application.
Since some of these materials have nothing to do with the area of manipulating human behavior, we are planning to continue our relationship with Blank using our normal contractual mechanism.
All I'm saying is that these documents, which are startling and devastating in their intent and in some of the description, show that there has been a foundation for this type of activity for some time.
The closest present time concern is the attempt to create biological weapons or to genetically alter various types of germs and so forth for germ warfare.
With the whole concept, for example, the National Institute of Mental Health headed up by psychiatrist Frederick Goodwin, who has been promoting the idea of genetically altering African Americans as, quote, his solution to, quote, crime.
And that takes us into a whole kind of clockwork orange modern madness sort of thing that I think we really have to pay attention to, have to look at.
I don't want to make everyone afraid on all this.
I just say that an informed public is a public that can take action on these sort of things.
And so I think what we're saying is, here's the information.
Other people should hop on the line, use the Freedom of Information Act, dig out this type of thing, and do something about what is happening in that area.
Well, I think unless we do something about the drug problems and about the moral problems in this country, which is really going to have to be borne by the churches because government is paying billions of dollars just to keep people on drugs or give them new drugs to replace the old drugs.
Unless we address that problem and start getting people off of it, we are going to have some problems.
But, you know, we've been down there in Compton since the riots, for example.
We've taken 1,000 people through a study technology program implemented by or created by Mr. Hubbard to deal with educational problems.
We've gotten kids out of gangs.
We've gotten people off the streets who were homeless, who are now working.
We've been able to change people's grade levels two and three levels with 25 hours of address.
I say that those types of things, those types of capabilities have to be spelled out in other cities.
This was just done by churches and contributions by corporations and so forth.
It wasn't done by the state.
It wasn't done by the city.
This is just a bunch of ministers and some Scientology ministers of different faiths getting together using the technology of how to study and dealing with the issues and also dealing with drugs.
There are solutions, but they have to be implemented.
And if not, yes, you're going to have a deterioration.
Well, I think because you have people who have had certain animosities.
You're always going to have somebody who is not going to agree with our stance on drugs, people who are not going to agree with the fact that we expose this type of thing that we've discussed over the last hour.
I think that there's always going to be critics who come out with an attack on that, as has occurred since day one.
We have very assiduously gone in and examined and found a lot of psychiatrists involved in the assault of the American people.
They find no problem with being involved in mind control experiments, giving people drugs against their will.
I don't apologize for affluence because what we've done is we've done so much to move into the communities, assist the communities.
We've done a tremendous amount to deal with handling drugs.
It's interesting, I talked to a guy who was a cocaine addict here in Los Angeles.
He said, well, look, when I was an addict, he said I did an average of five petty crimes a day just to support the having, you know, steal a radio from a car, break into somebody's home, take something, and so forth.
The difference with Scientology being that we help the individual to help himself so that it isn't just put in the control of another individual.
But yes, I've seen people do healing.
Tremendous things happen.
I saw it as a kid out there in Utah.
They believe on the laying on of hands, that sort of thing.
I think, again, the difference being that with Scientology, you have an exact technology which helps on the psychosomatic side to help the individual become more able, more well, more healthy.
But definitely the laying on of hands and faith healing is something which has existed in this society for centuries, and it's a phenomena which is real and does occur.
I had the opportunity to do a show with Larry King Live last December, and that question was raised by Harry Rosenberg, as a matter of fact, who is the brother of Van Earhart.
Earhart admits years ago that he had stolen a good deal of Scientology from its early days and that it was what he used in some form or another to build his empire.
And he admits that it was something that gave him a great deal of understanding about the mind and so forth.
And then he went on to create what became EST and with some sort of other things thrown in.
My point simply being that any animosity which Mr. Earhart has, and he certainly has expressed it as he did on the show against myself and the church in December, is based on the fact that he has some law enforcement problems and he does have some problems with having not told his people truthfully where he got this information that has been somewhat successful, but it's a very, very small part that he had of Scientology.
It certainly was not anywhere near what Scientology really is.
And of course, people who want real Scientology come to the churches, not to EST.
And finally, the point that he brought up was that somehow he was having problems coming back into America.
And as I indicated to his brother when I spoke with him, he has some outstanding money that he owes to the Internal Revenue Service.
Certainly in the 60-Minute Show, and I've seen other affidavits and documents showing that his sexual assaults on his own children were rather extensive and I would imagine still punishable by law.
So that's Mr. Earhart's problem.
It's unfortunate that he lived that kind of a life, but last time I heard he was in Moscow.
And I don't know where he is now in present time, but Scientology is Scientology, and it is something which works 100% when it's applied properly.
And that's why it is a technology.
Altering it makes it less effective, and then it's not Scientology.
Yes, Reverend quite an attack on this gentleman from S, that I have no particular attachment or feelings.
It's just a great ad hominem attack.
But my question is this: you seem to follow great causes, sort of an all-around church.
You rally on causes that most people could get attached to, the anti-AMA kind of a thing, and the government chemical kind of a thing.
Would you discuss any affiliation present or past and how you may have been affiliated or worked with Reverend Sung Young Moon's unification church known as the Moonies and any charges of fraud that were charged against you for mind manipulation of people?
I think that he is a person who has his concept of religion, and in America, he has a right to express that religion.
I know some of his people.
The issues that I've worked with Reverend Moon on have been, or his people, have been the concerns for human rights issues, people who've been kidnapped and held against their will and so forth.
In fact, the head of the Criminal Association that works security system is now doing seven years for kidnapping somebody in Washington, D.C.
And his associate is standing trial in the next four or five days for that type of thing.
Look, I think that, again, in America, you have a right to believe as you want to believe.
The Unification Church has a right to believe as it wants to believe.
People have a right to join that.
Now, in terms of this mind manipulation stuff, well, that whole issue has been invalidated judicially in the courts extensively.
In fact, the American Psychological Association and the American Sociological Association have come down and condemned the main proponents of that theory as being unscientific.
And as I say, three court decisions have also indicated that there isn't anything to that.
If you're going to talk about mind manipulation being people who believe in something or they follow a particular leader or something like that, Scientology itself believes that you make up your own mind.
You can read a book and you can make up your own mind as to whether or not it's something you want to be involved in or not be involved in.
And if you are in Scientology and you've studied it, you apply it and you can make up your own mind as to whether it's work of work or not work of war.
I think that if one is living a life of service and assistance to mankind, I don't think there is a fear.
And again, that's my own personal feeling.
By the way, that's my hometown.
That's where I was born.
It was in Salt Lake City, Utah.
And no, I think that, again, we leave it up to the individual what he thinks about God.
We don't have a dogma on it.
It's up to the person to make his own discovery, his own feeling about it.
Again, as I say, since we have people of all religions, we do believe in the Supreme Being.
My personal feeling is if you're living a good life and you're helping people and you're definitely positive in what you're doing and helping others, I don't think you have to have a fear.
I really haven't personally, Art, though I know that folks are sending me stuff all the time, and I can't vouch for it because I haven't somebody who has really sat down and worked it out.
I know that there are people out there talking about therapies for it.
I know they're talking about oxygenation and hydrogenation therapies and stuff like that.
I mean, first of all, there are eight million members, and we've done some studies, which is um information shows on what is Scientology, that people tend to make more money in Scientology.
You giving me uh an unnamed person, an unnamed case, I'm not sure uh what that situation is about or whether it exists or not.
But people do become more capable in Scientology, and they tend to earn more money.
The other thing is, I think it's kind of like Tom Snyder once said to me, he said, you know, it's interesting, he said, the people who complain about contributions to Scientology are generally not in Scientology.
But there is a lot of controversy, Reverend, about the financial dealings of Scientology and what it requires of its members, and what does it require?
I have a question for you, and it's about regarding your founder, L. Ron Hubbard.
Now, I remember reading an interview with L. Spregue de Camp and Lynn Carter saying that L. Ron Hubbard had a bet that he could start a religion, and sure enough, he started Scientology.
It was at a fellow who was one of his contemporaries who was doing that sort of thing at a party in 1939.
And we have the affidavits from that, which was presented in a court in Germany that made the same assertion.
And the people who made that assertion, by the way, lost it in court and had to pay the church that money because it was proven that Mr. Hubbard ever did say that.
unidentified
Why do you think between Lynn Carter and L. Spregue de Camp that verify that L. Ron Hubbard had actually said that, that they made a bet, all three of them?
Well, I tell you, I've seen the affidavits on this thing by the people who were at that party, and that is not what occurred.
And Mr. Hubbard, by the way, this religion is something which has helped millions and millions of people.
And the other thing is when Mr. Hubbard passed away, he gave all the money to the church, his entire estate.
So anyone who makes that sort of charge is someone who might say it, but I'll tell you, it was proven already in the courts.
unidentified
You know, it was not any charges.
It was just stating the fact that Lynn Carter and El Sprague de Camp said that they had sat down over a couple pints or whatever, and they were discussing religion and everything else and science fiction writing.
And that they had L. Ron Hubbard had spoken up and said, you know, I bet you I can start a religion.
Art, I'll send it to you because obviously this fellow's not going to let go of his assertions.
And by the way, if you have such a thing signed as an affidavit from El Sprague de Camp, I'd like to see it because I have not seen such a document, but I have seen other affidavits of people who were at that particular party, and Mr. Hubbard was not the person who originated that.
Well, I just wondered what you do with the statement that Jesus made that he is the way and that no man comes to God but by him and how you get around so many of the different dogmatic teachings of the Bible if you don't kneel to Jesus Christ as Lord, such as, I mean, I heard you speak of homosexuality, and though my view isn't politically correct, it's biblically correct.
Well, there's five questions there, but let me just say that, again, we leave it up to the individual what he believes in in terms of the Supreme Being, and he makes his own choice.
And again, morality is something which is up to the individual.
It's not something which you can legislate.
It's something which an individual has to place upon himself.
And certainly society can say, well, here, there are certain morals.
Here's the strange thing.
In California here in Los Angeles, the school board has ruled that a kid can bring a gun to school only three times.
So bring a Bible and you're out.
And I think that, I mean, this is the sane.
I think that it's time for some morality to go back into schools.
We've turned it over to the psychiatrist.
They're a disaster.
And I think the fact that it's time for people to have some morals, but again, you can't enforce it.
And Mr. Hubbard wrote, by the way, a non-religious moral code which has basic principles of morals.
And by the way, that's had millions of copies of that around the world, translated in a lot of different languages.
It's really become, I think, one of the most popular works of his writings.
I've heard that name, but I couldn't tell you that I know that much about it.
I just know that Dianetics, when it came out in 1950, went on the bestseller lists, and it was there for, I think, about 26, 28 weeks, and hit the bestseller lists a number of times since 1950.
And as a matter of fact, there are now 400 new Dianetics groups in America.
Scientology has a very tenacious mailing department because I had a very good friend who was a Scientologist, and he did me the perhaps dubious favor of putting me on a list.
And I think that I received probably $150 or $200 worth of literature over several years from Scientology.
They were doggedly just about every week, two or three times, I would receive something.
Well, you know, it's interesting because I had heard about Scientology back in 1960 when I was in the service in Fort Meade, Maryland, out near Washington, D.C.
And I had started reading a little bit about it at that time.
And I said, well, look, can you put me on a mailing list?
So they put me on a mailing list.
But I was really interested in it over the years.
And every time I moved, I would write to the church out there and say, I've moved.
Please send forward this information.
And they did it for several years.
And as a result of that, I came into Scientology after I'd looked at so many other things.
So I'm one of the guys that's really happy that they kept me on a mailing list.
There's been movements in the past hundred years, Theospo Society, different groups that have put together Eastern religions with either Western science or what have you.
And there's tons of interpretations, like the gentleman called it about the Urantia book and what have you.
But the traditional religions like Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, have all had traditions that have led people to be what you would call realized or saints or whatever.
Will Scientology produce people of that stature whose writings will endure for thousands or hundreds of years?
And does it lead to realization or is it just more of a social and comfort fitting into Western society?
And also, do you believe in evolution or do you believe man was primordially perfect or do you believe he's evolving?
Let me just say that, and listen, those are good questions, especially the enlightenment point.
In Scientology, we believe that man can be enlightened.
We talk about a state of being, which we call clear, where an individual no longer has that reactive mind that we're talking about.
That would be equivalent to what Gautama Buddha was talking about, the state of Bodhi, where one is aware of himself as a spiritual being.
He's aware of his environment.
He has a great deal more health.
He has a great deal more intention.
He has greater ability to achieve his goals and so forth.
And again, he realizes his spiritual nature.
So yes, in Scientology, that concept of clear, and in Dianetics is the first time that concept came up.
It is definitely a part of it.
In terms of concept of evolution, no, I don't know that evolution is such a thing.
There isn't really, I've got to say, scientific evidence to show it, because all those little missing links and the number of mathematical capabilities to have such a thing happen, I think, is pretty, pretty far out.
The other thing I always find interesting is where the scientists say that a bunch of molecules got together and said, hey, listen, what do you think, Harry?
unidentified
Let's just become some genetic material and we'll grow into something.
And listen, thanks to all your listeners out there.
Some good questions, and I really enjoyed this, and I think that you have a great show, and I think there's obviously a lot of folks up at this hour all across America.
If you missed the last two hours, you missed a very good interview with the Reverend Jench, Heber Jensch, who is the president of the Church of Scientology.
Very controversial, but a very good interview, wide-ranging, and was very enjoyable to do.
And we will have him back.
Now, on to the news of the day, North Korea.
And I'm going to try and lay all this out fairly quickly.
North Korea has now, according to CNN, issued a threat to withdraw from the Global Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty if the UN continues to demand full access to its nuclear program.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to laugh, but in other words, they're saying we're not going to be part of the treaty if you require us to adhere to it.
The U.S. plans to ask for sanctions, what we apparently are going to call incremental sanctions, what the North Koreans call an act of war.
And so I will simply ask you this morning, where do you think the North Korean situation is headed, and when do you think it will get there?
President Clinton is now in Rome, first stop in a European tour commemorating D-Day 50 years ago.
Vatican officials say he will likely confront the president on the subject of abortion.
And my only question here is: how would you imagine that conversation might go?
The Pope confronting Bill Clinton on abortion.
What do you think Bill Clinton would say to the Pope?
Pope might say, Mr. President, do you realize what a sinful thing you're doing?
Do you realize that you're responsible for the murder of millions of souls?
And I just wonder how you think Bill Clinton might respond to that.
Body-bag journalism is what they're calling it in Miami.
In Miami, where there's lots of violence and not so many tourists these days, Miami hotels, and as a matter of fact, a chain of seven and many more have now decided to block, get this, block local newscasts that show violence in that city because it's scaring away the tourists.
Now, there is one station in Miami now showing what's called family-sensitive news.
And my question for you is, would you like your local station to adopt family-sensitive news and or would you like your cable company or your hotel, if you're in a hotel, to block a newscast that would show all of this violence?
Recalling Senator Bradley's remark, if you think violence among the young is bad now, just wait till you see what's coming.
Paula Jones.
Paula Jones, Paula Jones, sounds like it ought to be a song, doesn't it?
Well, Paula Jones has decided to go on the talk show circuit, TV talk shows.
Maybe we could get Paula Jones on this program.
Would you like that?
To tell her story?
She says she's going to go out now to all the talk shows and tell her story.
She, of course, is the former Arkansas state employee charging Bill Clinton with sexual harassment.
Think he did it?
Do you even care?
That's big news.
You know, all the surveys are showing.
Survey shows the American people don't care about Paula Jones or Jennifer Flowers or who knows, legions of others.
Now two men, two men, mind you, have filed a federal court lawsuit in Tampa, Florida, happened yesterday, charging Ms. Jones, or that her lawsuit, that is, interferes with Bill Clinton's contract to serve the American people.
The suit seeks $27 million in punitive damages from Jones.
So she better get on TV.
She better, I suppose, had better get out there quickly and raise as much money as she can.
For if that kind of a judgment went against her, she would owe $27 million.
Well, Jamaica is going to act as host to us, the U.S., in order to review the claims of Haitian refugees.
And so that will be the staging area, Jamaica.
We will pay for the program as the Haitians continue to build their boats and get ready to go.
Or is it getting ready to come?
Rodney King, a federal jury in L.A., decided that Rodney King should not receive punitive damages from six Los Angeles police officers involved in his beating.
It was a unanimous verdict, and yet CNN caught one of the jurors coming out, and the juror was angry, said the verdict was racially motivated, and there was no, quote, no justice here, end quote.
So you've got to wonder why this juror voted to exempt the officers if that's the way she felt.
But that's what she said to CNN when she came out of the courthouse.
Then I've got a couple of, well, there's Rostinkowski.
Let me get to Rostenkowski and Joyce Lynn Elders, and then we'll get started here.
Mr. Rostenkowski, 17 charges, very, very serious charges, as you know, indicted yesterday.
He is now in a dispute with his lawyer.
This may be one of the reasons that I like Rosti at some level.
He basically told Bennett, Bob Bennett, his attorney, or it is being reported that he's telling him to go to hell, that he doesn't need him, and he's probably going to discharge his attorney.
And I think that's what I like.
I mean, Rostenkowski is a fighter, and maybe he's guilty.
Maybe he's not.
Court of law will decide that.
But I do kind of enjoy the fact that he's not collapsing in front of the system that says, basically, look, take this.
You'll get charged with one little felony.
You'll do six months.
Boom, boom, you'll be out.
He's telling him to go to hell.
And I think after watching the day's news today, that is the one thing that I do enjoy.
Plus, I think it's going to be good for the country.
Do you know what his excuse is going to be?
His, well, that's right, excuse, I guess.
His defense.
CNN reported last night that Mr. Rostenkowski's defense is going to be the others do the same thing.
It is going to be the others do the same thing, defense.
Well, hmm.
If that's it, and he establishes in a court of law that in fact the others do do the same thing, and he is convicted, then that really convicts all the rest of them, doesn't it?
So I think this is going to be a fascinating trial, and I think in a way, Rostankowski is doing the country at large a very big favor indeed.
Jocelyn Elders, everybody's favorite surgeon general, has done it again.
Now, as you know, in the past, she has said that homosexuals ought to be allowed to join the Boy Scouts.
It's a good thing the Boy Scouts of America is not a government agency, isn't it?
Or they'd be forced to accept homosexuals.
Well, anyway, yesterday, the Surgeon General said lesbians should be allowed to join the Girl Scouts.
Lesbians ought to be allowed to join the Girl Scouts.
Now, wouldn't you think there would be other things the Surgeon General could spend her time on?
She wants to legalize drugs, put lesbians in the Girl Scouts, homosexuals in the Boy Scouts.
Wonder what else she's got on her mind.
Is that a public health kind of issue?
Anyway, this Clinton administration really is something, isn't it?
Well, let's see.
What else have I?
Oh, there is this.
Swallow this.
Here's a fax I received earlier today.
Art Bell, did you hear about the UN report that came out today, which said they, the UN, wanted to collect a, quote, global income tax from citizens in rich countries to give to poor countries.
This is from Lois in San Jose, and I have no way of confirming this.
The UN wants to collect an income tax from rich countries to give to poor countries over my dead body.
I wonder, and that of course may be the case, I wonder if this could possibly be true.
Could they possibly be doing anything as communistic as this?
Let's operate as though it were a global income tax that would hit all the rich countries imposed by the U.N. to help all the poor countries, the people in Haiti, the people in Central Africa, the people in, gee, we could go on and on, couldn't we?
Parts of India, Bangladesh, they could all use Boa, that'd be some tax, too, wouldn't it?
I guess an attempt to equalize everybody.
Face of the globe.
They're really pushing it, aren't they?
So anyway, I don't know if that's true.
It came from Lois in San Jose, and I had not heard it, but maybe some of the rest of you have.
I've got a very strange story here from somebody.
I think you might enjoy it.
But I'm going to hold it.
It's a story about light bulbs that unscrewed themselves.
I mean, it's really a strange story, and I like strange stories.
It's called The Case of the Unscrewed Light Bulbs.
And it's an individual who wrote this story to me.
And I'll get to it as time goes on.
All right, what I want to do is get the telephone lines open.
Anything is fair game, whatever it is that you would like to talk about.
I'm ready for it, I think.
Whether it's reflections on the Reverend Gench and what he had to say over the last couple of hours, any of the topics I just brought up, or any that you would like to broach on your own, were open for any of it.
So when we come back, it's two-way talk.
unidentified
You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from the 1st of June, 1994.
I think Old Austen Kowski at the last minute, before he can keep that Pleakard bargain agreement right up until the time the jury walks in with the verdict.
Okay, but bear in mind, the prosecution does not have to continue to offer it or consummate the deal at all, at any moment.
In other words, once they're in court, if it began to go the prosecution's way and Rosti saw that and came to him for the deal, they might tell him to go jump in a lake.
Well, the only problem is General Canarino runs that operation, and I just don't have any faith in him at this time.
One other thing is rather interesting.
I see on the World Report of some kind, I forgot the name of today.
I was reading about it, that they put Egypt and Mexico as one of the major countries that expect it to synegate in the next few years.
I wonder if any preparation is being made by this country to handle the influx of refugees that's going to come with their overpopulation running across our borders when that country does start to disintegrate.
Four months I'm on the phones talking to about, I'd say, at least 120 people a day taking their calls, wanting to know where their check is and how they can get their assistance.
Right, sure.
Sure.
Well, for the first month and a half, I'm talking to the truly needy.
And for the next three and a half months, it's just people whose neighbors got checks and they're wanting to report damages.
And we have our inspectors went out to look at these properties.
And aside from helping people get housed if they were rendered homeless, which is one thing which I think is legitimate, they were offering personal property grants.
And if you had damage to essential furnishings and major appliances and stuff, hey, look, you live on a fault line.
You know what you're getting yourself into.
Our inspectors go to a place and this woman's like, yeah, my refrigerator's damaged.
But you know, we got inspectors going to houses where I thought you FEMA guys, according to a lot of my callers, are the ones that are going to take over the U.S. in the middle of the night someday and turn us into a police state.
Isn't that what you're all about?
unidentified
Well, I'm what's called a local hire.
FEMA set up a center here in Denver, and they had their regular people come, which is pretty much semi-retired people.
The last facts you read about the U.N. taking from the rich and giving to the poor is just sickening.
I, however, haven't heard anything about it, so let's hope it's just a sick rumor.
However, if it is true, could it be that communism is winning?
It's times like these that we need Bush back in office.
President Clinton sure isn't going to do anything about it.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was his idea.
North Korea, I'd be interested to know, if this becomes a global thermonuclear war, would you stand outside and watch the fireball envelop you, or would you seek shelter and try to live out a few more years?
It would be an interesting question for your listeners as well.
Thanks, Eric, at KVI.
Well, Eric, I would like to say that I would go out and throw my hands up and greet the fireball like a man.
But, in fact, Eric, I'd probably be out scratching at the caliche in my yard trying to see how far down I could get out quickly.
It wouldn't be easy.
We have caleche here, and it's like trying to dig through rock.
So I'm sure the fireball would greet me with shovels full of dirt flying behind me.
Here's another.
Hey, Art, consider this.
More than a few Democrat apologists state the charges against Rostinkowski couldn't be true.
They point out that Danny Boy passed up his chance to convert an excess of a million dollars in campaign funds into personal funds.
He could have done, well, minus tax, of course.
He could have done this had he retired prior to 92 since he passed this up.
He obviously is not motivated by or interested in money.
Horse stuff.
The point is these people miss it.
It's so obvious.
It's silly.
Take a look at just the activities he was caught doing, and it is easy to see it's more profitable for him to stay in Congress.
By staying in, not retiring, Danny retained the power and opportunity to steal far more than a paltry $1 million and fatten his pension up as well.
The atom bomb we have pictures of, if anybody researches it, after the explosion, the actual explosion destroyed most of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but the radiation cloud and the effects of the radiation lasted for years.
And it's my understanding, well, he bounces back to Las Vegas every now and then, but he was back on the East Coast somewhere up in the Northeast.
unidentified
Oh, I see.
And then there was another thing.
One time I heard you, it was years ago, and you were talking about talking about ghosts and spirits, and you said there was some lady, I think it was in the city.
Oh, I'd just like to say, regardless of whether or not it's an overt out-conspiracy, there was something interesting written for it by a professor named Samuel Huntington.
If you want to know what the Trilateral Commission is doing, write to them and they will tell you.
unidentified
I understand.
But there was something kind of disturbing that was written for it about suggesting press censorship, or it seemed to be suggesting something close to that.
And I'm not going to try to, you know, obviously there's a lot of different people involved with it and there's different viewpoints, but I do see where some of the concerns could be coming from.
Well, anyways, I just wanted to call up and say that.
I listened to the Chuck Harter NAFTA hate show for months and months and months and months, and it got to the point where I thought it was absolutely ridiculous.
You can take anybody, as far as I'm concerned, and establish a body count around them.
Anybody, let's say, who would, for example, head a major corporation, I would bet you that you could begin documenting a body count around that person.
People who have something to do with that business, who have died, people who have committed suicide.
There's a lot of suicides in this country.
And I'm not saying there's not something to this whole Clinton story.
I'm just not saying it's automatic that there is, nor have I seen proof that there is.
So, I don't know.
I'm kind of hesitant about all that sort of stuff, and I guess I'm from Missouri on that one.
Well, we start with KPNW and KEX and end up with K-O-H.
All right.
Gwench, interesting guy.
My wife and I are both graduates of EST and found a lot of value in that, but found that there were some funny subliminal things that they tended to do that made you feel a little guilty and like you should contribute more time and more money to their cause.
It kind of reeked of Eastern brainwashing or something.
I found an awful lot of Scientology to be a lot the same way, but I'll tell you, some of the most dramatic changes in my life came out of some views that I conjured from reading Dianetics.
Yeah, my view is that there probably is something to Scientology as a science.
I don't know that I think of it very much as a religion.
I think of Scientology more as a science.
unidentified
Yeah, I think it tends to get a little confusing if you want to look at it as a religion, as a science, as a useful tool, I think, for some psychological shortcomings or questions or need.
I think that it's quite helpful.
It's been for me anyway.
So I really want to thank you a lot for putting that fellow on and a couple of others that you've done recently.
Well, that's what I think is going to come out of this.
I think that if there is a trial and Mr. Rostenkowski successfully proves his point, which he may, that he's not doing anything everybody else isn't doing, and yet he is convicted with a very harsh jail sentence, then that convicts all of them.
It's refreshing to hear somebody on the radio, especially talk radio, who has a good, healthy dose of skepticism about these conspiracy and murder spheres and things like that.
It just gets a little crazy after a while, and it's nice to hear somebody say, hey, you know, let's get some proof.
And coincidences do happen, you know, and I just want to thank you for that.
And I think there ought to be any talk host out there worth his salt ought to be good enough to be able to tackle whatever comes along, whatever it is.
I mean, you may or may not have knowledge in a certain area, but if you don't screen your calls, there's a certain magic that's there that is the real talk radio.
That's what I think.
And it's just the spontaneous nature of not knowing what's next.
It's like a great adventure.
That's exactly what it's like: a great adventure.
Talk radio.
Every program I do is that way.
You never know what it's going to be.
And I like it that way.
Anyway, that's our brand of talk radio.
It's called Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified
This is Premier Networks.
That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
Global Safety Net00:02:27
unidentified
Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
What I did want to talk to about dipping into things that they're not supposed to in Washington, D.C., all the union money and pension money is also being dipped into.
A matter of fact, one of it is where they're going to make housing for the poor that is going to be established.
Well, I think there's going to be a point where all these people, everything is just boiling up to such a point that maybe they're going to be not rational at all.
Yes, I have their position paper on Linda Thompson, and they feel, as I do, that it is very dangerous, and they have advised their members of exactly that fact.
And they have a whole position paper on Linda Thompson.
So there you go.
unidentified
Yeah, he even thought maybe she worked for the government.
And then today with Rodney King, was that yesterday, I mean, when the jury came out and said, well, if you mention damages, he's not going to get anything.
So I was just wondering, what happened if they started rioting again?
And the people, I think California have to wait 15 days, you know.
And so I was just wondering, thank God we do have guns.
And here in Arizona, we all pretty much carry guns.
Not everyone, but a lot of ranchers.
We have a lot of ranchers out here and things like that.
That, well, none of these guys but me stay up and listen to you, so I spread the word not only to the NRA directly, but to all my friends, and one of whom just attended the NRA board meeting and got himself elected as a board member.
Welcome back to the most widely distributed all-night radio program in America.
You see, I believe that is the case.
And so, of course, if Wayne LaPierre knew, he would come on.
And so I agree with this caller that he's insulated.
And I'm sure that I ticked somebody off at NRA because they called me repeatedly for a while and said, how about this director or this regional director or that person?
And at first I politely told them, well, thank you, but it is Wayne LaPierre that I would like to have.
I've had many of these other people in the past from the NRA, and I think the situation is, I really explained all this to them.
I think it's so critical right now with regard to the Second Amendment guns in America that I'd like to have the man himself on.
And I think we're big enough to more than justify that appearance.
And I think that I ticked the guy off, frankly.
He finally got angry with me.
And so it wouldn't surprise me at all, but that there is some sort of insulation going on.
Wayne LaPierre is actually a pretty effective spokesperson.
I thought in this last battle, though he lost it, over the assault weapons, though it's not totally lost yet, I might add, by the way, since crime bill is not signed, sealed, and delivered, I thought he did a pretty good job of arguing against it, a pretty effective job.
So I have no quarrel with Wayne Lopier personally.
It's just some of the staff at NRA.
And I should add, I'm a member, continuing as a member of NRA.
I just, you know, we've got millions of people here at night listening to this program.
And it's a pretty significant audience of people who would have a lot of sympathy with what he would have to say, and he could motivate an awful lot of people.
So it wouldn't make sense that he would not come on unless he didn't know.
I would say, first of all, to be cautious because I have only callers with regard to the stories about Seattle.
I don't know how much of that is so, and you have to always be cautious, but I've now had a couple of calls, and so it begins to give some credence to it, some credibility.
But it's still just a couple of people who have called.
And, you know, rumors are rumors, and you never know what's true and what's not.
We will check it out.
Pretty odd stuff, huh?
I always picture roughly the beginning of the stand, you know, some scientist with a vial in his hand holding it up, looking at little bitty teeny crawly things crawling around in the vial, and then somebody startling the scientist, oops, crunch on the floor, and then a bunch of human bodies just all chewed up, and it's loose on the world.
Of course, I imagine the worst.
So I don't know, but this may be real, and if I were you all, I would stay close to this story and continue to follow this story.
And when you hear government people saying not to worry, worry.
Come on, blood poisoning doesn't eat your skin and flesh and muscle.
unidentified
Because most cases of what they refer to as blood poisoning is actually a staphyloccus infection.
And there's been a lot of people who died from them, from, say, like tightening yourself, shaving, like a famous person died from it that went into tombs.
They tried to say it was the curse of the pharaohs and all that.
I'm sorry, but I just don't know that I believe it.
I've been around for a while, and I've not heard about any disease that eats away at the human flesh the way this is.
And I've seen the pictures, too.
unidentified
There's a lot of diseases that, you know, a lot of people don't necessarily hear about every year.
There's a lot more horrible diseases floating around than this staphylococcus infection.
And we don't necessarily hear about them.
And especially when they're in third world countries and stuff like that.
It's just that up until now, until the abuse of antibiotics, usually it's caught in time because one of the first signs is the same sign that there is when you have blood poisoning.
Well, then, why are you asking me questions that you already have the answer to?
unidentified
Well, here's the thing: I'm really disillusioned with the systematized religion.
What I see on TV, what I hear, you know, Dianetics, they give topical answers, Art, and you're the kind of man who's not satisfied with that.
And I'm not really asking these types of questions because I believe I've found them, and they are in scripture.
But I'm upset that I hear, I watch TV and I watch these preachers, and they give such surface answers, and they put psychological trips on people.
Heaven, hell, all of that, you're going to burn forever, and never giving any answers to why did I have a tragedy in my life, or where's God when I really need him?
But again, you're asking questions that you have the answer for.
You know, I think God is there, but I doubt that he involves himself in every small detail.
And it is my view, just kind of a view, that events are roughly random on this earth, and some will be challenged greatly and suffer, and others will sort of skate through it, and that God is not orchestrating each little thing that occurs to you.
If I were the president, what I would do is forget about the sanction things, because that's not going to work.
No.
I would just make a very public thing and just line up a whole bunch of short-range nuclear missiles on that 38th parallel so that North Koreans will know that we're serious about things.
Yeah, I mean, if the country can't make it on their own, it's not our responsibility for me to work my butt off every day, five days a week, and then I have to turn around and give my hard-earned money to somebody like in South Africa or South America that shouldn't instead of having like Stella's truth that gets on the TV and says, Well, don't you want to give these people more money so you can help these kids out?