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Dec. 26, 1993 - Art Bell

01:47:49

Area 2000 with Art Bell - Chad Deacon - Crop Circles

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art bell

26:03

chad deacon

51:56

linda moulton howe

21:26

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		...of two particular subjects, UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To contact the Bigelow Foundation during the work week, call Angela Thompson between 9 a.m.
unidentified		and 5 p.m.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		at area code 702-456-1606.
		at area code 702-456-1606.
		That's Angela Thompson at area code 702-456-1606.
		And now, Area 2000.
		Good evening, everybody.
		Welcome to Area 2000.
		Hope you had a great Christmas.
		I certainly did.
		My name is Art Bell.
		This program is kind of a special thing every week.
		Kind of.
		It is very special.
		It is made possible by the Bigelow Foundation.
		As I said in the open, if you would like to contact the Bigelow Foundation, Angela Thompson is your contact there, and you can reach her during the business week.
		At area code 7-0-2-4-5-6-1-6-0-6-4-5-6-16-0-6.
		All right.
		We've got a lot on tap this morning.
		Linda Howe leads it with her report, her look into another reality, another dimension, another area.
		And then we'll hear from Chad Deacon.
		is going to talk to us, and we've heard from him before actually, in a crowded telephone booth, with Linda Howe in England.
		You may recall that program, and he spoke to us then, and will now, about crop circles, and so stand by for that.
		A lot of fascinating discussion this morning.
		Let us begin all the way back in Philadelphia with Linda Howe.
		Linda, good evening.
		Oh, let's see.
		Perhaps... Perhaps we should be going here.
		Linda Howe?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Linda.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And Merry Christmas to you and to Bob Bigelow, the Bigelow Foundation, and Chad Deacon in Canada.
		He is a true colleague and he and I and others spent two very complex and full weeks in England this past summer investigating the crop circles and I reported from there with him and on several Of the stories that were happening there, and it was only a week or two that I was in Michigan with Dr. Lovingood, who has been examining some of those exact same stems, seeds, and various other parts of the wheat and rye plants in England that we brought back, and has found that there have been some kind of fundamental changes of the chemical and the physical level of those plants that, quoting Dr. Lovingood, cannot be hoped.
		And I think tonight, What will be valuable is that Chad brings perspective on that phenomenon from Canada to England, is up to speed on what has happened in the United States, and so he has an international perspective.
		And I thought also that while that phenomenon has been happening, it has happened in parallel with animal mutilations in England, the United States, and other countries, all happening at the same time that crop formations happen in the summer, and It seems now, year-round, month after month, whether it is Bud Hopkins, David Jacobs, Leo Sprinkle, or any of the investigators using hypnosis, or a researcher like myself, who is not using hypnosis, but is very interested in the patterns of abductions around the world, all of these phenomena,
		It seemed to be having to do with another reality that is outside of the one that we accept every day that we get up and we go to work and we come home.
		Something else is happening around us, day and night, affecting thousands of people globally.
		Just a month ago, researchers in Canada, psychologists at Carleton University in Ottawa, Canada, had spent months doing research with what were considered to be people who, they said, reported at least anomalous phenomena, and some described as UFOs or unusual sightings in the sky.
		And in the November 1993 Journal of Abnormal Psychology, which is a very respected journal, these investigators in Canada, led by Dr. Nicholas C. Spanos, a professor of psychology at Carleton University in Ottawa, They reported in that journal a summary of their findings over several months concerning people who had reported some kind of an anomalous phenomenon, including what we would describe as unidentified flying objects in the sky.
		The researchers found the eyewitnesses to be as intelligent and mentally healthy as other South people and not more prone to fantasies.
		49 adults who had seen unidentified flying objects.
		10 said that they had seen a craft close up.
		This is consciously having nothing to do with hypnosis.
		10 said that they had seen an alien being.
		7 described verbal contact with alien beings.
		8 reported telepathic contact.
		7 remembered total body paralysis at some point And in most cases that would be when they were asleep and waking up and noting that they could not move.
		Eight reported missing times, which has been reported by Bud Hopps since 1980.
		And two recalls going aboard a spacecraft.
		These are conscious memories having nothing to do with hypnosis.
		And in this summary that was reported, the whole bottom line was that these people were no more different than you, I, or anyone that was considered to be normal in the population.
		Now, another part of this is, what did the media start doing as a result of this Canadian report that appeared in a very respectable journal?
		There were newspapers all over the United States and Canada, maybe other parts of the world, and they began doing their own interviews with people that said that they, too, ...were haunted by something that seemed, from their definition, to soot, the category of UFOs.
		Well, recently, in Washington, D.C., a story with a full-color photograph of two women in Catlett, Virginia, appeared in the newspaper, and the title of this was, Living in the Light on Earth, They are Haunted by Shadows of UFOs.
		And in the context of this Canadian report on people who are basically mentally sound, their intelligence is no different from the average population, but that they are reporting some kind of an interaction with something that comes in the form of a disc, has life, and seems in some way to have an interaction with humans, these two women reported to the Gannett News Service, which made the papers in USA Today and other stories, That in their small town of Catlett, Virginia, these two women said that, and this was a quote, sometimes a spaceship, and they described it as a saucer, touches down at the corner of the farm that they live on, in a Virginia horse farm 50 miles west of Washington, D.C., where the nation's capital is.
		They said that sometimes, and I'm quoting from the Skynet News Service, the Beams, and this is their quote, materialized out of thin air that has been one of the patterns in what we would call the UFO human abduction syndrome now for at least 30 years.
		People say that something that appears to be a being of some sort actually has In this case, these women in Virginia, as we speak, during the fall and winter of 1993, are saying that they are seeing what they call beings that don't resemble humans are materializing out of thin air.
		Then they describe what we all have heard from Bud and from David and from others on Area 2000 of being taken sometimes to something that is full of light, that they have been poked and prodded and that they have had excisions taken from their skin.
		And they describe a trauma, but they are returned.
		They are returned to their horse farm in Virginia and They discuss it from the point of view of humans who have had an experience that may be akin to a cat that we might take to a veterinarian.
		We do it because we want something to happen to perpetuate the life of that cat, and the experience of the veterinarian is frightening and traumatic for the cat, but we, the humans who take that cat, know that there is a good reason.
		There may be, as is suggested by several abductees, As traumatic as these abductions are, there may be in the long run some reason for why this is happening to humans globally, that in the long run we may learn, might have something to do with our own survival.
		No proof, and this is still a huge unknown, but I think it is very significant for our Area 2000 listeners to realize that Psychologists in Canada, maybe other universities, are taking this syndrome extremely seriously.
		They're doing research and reporting on it, and newspapers, at least in the United States, are making the effort to go out and do research and contact people to say that they have had contact with something that they think is beyond at least the reality of the day-to-day, earthly life that we live here.
		And if so, the big question is, we end 1993 and we begin 1994.
		And how are we going to trap the revolution in this planet where we froze as a globe of government?
		We aren't alone in the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how would you predict that for yourself, Linda?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What does 1994 look like to you?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I keep hearing from Washington D.C.
		contacts that something is afoot from a political level.
		Now, what that force or energy or whatever it is that is behind these current speculative rumors are, I'm not sure.
		But there seems to be a growing sense that in the coming new year, that At least some kind of a public statement might be made, maybe by this administration or by another country or another government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		While we're on that subject, Linda, the new Secretary of Defense, Bobby Ray Inman, Secretary-designate, has allegedly made a very interesting statement in the past about UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you heard about that?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		He was tracked down by a Maryland investigator and was asked if he knew about MJ-12.
		And for those who have stayed with Area 2000 over the past few months, they would know that MJ-12 refers to, possibly, an inside group inside the government that has originated from the Truman administration and has been replaced, as people have died, by others who have You might say the keys to the kingdom of the knowledge about UFOs and other life forms.
		If there's any truth to MJ-12, the one person who might know about their knowledge would be Bobby Ray Inman.
		He has served in the government and in the intelligence community for a long portion of his life, and I think that the timing right now that he would be tapped Take this particular very important position in the cabinet of Secretary of Defense is, if nothing else, his timing is interesting and he has, if of anybody who may have knowledge about this other phenomenon we'll call another life form in the universe, he may know that we are in fact interacting with or being interacted with by other life forms and if he is,
		My own sense of things is that we have only six years until we turn to the year 2000.
		in that kind of position in the government might also be in a position to finally talk to us honestly
		about what, or at least a portion of what the government knows.
		My own sense of things is that we have only six years until we turn to the year 2000.
		In those six years, if we don't get past this paradigm that we're alone in the universe,
		something is truly askew.
		It does not make sense.
		There are too many eyewitness testimonies, too many confidential military sources, too many intelligence sources that are speaking and saying, yes, we have had ongoing communication, relationships, interactions with something else out there in the universe since at least the 1940s.
		And now we're in the 90s.
		We have to come up to speed with the facts.
		And it may be that the government has been correct, that it may be that in the long run, if we all look back and say, yes, it took half a century to get through all of the old conditioning about our being alone in the universe.
		It may have taken 50 years to get the population of the United States and other countries up to the point where they could say, all right, We can accept the fact we're not alone in the universe and that then we have to deal with the implications of the statement, we're not alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well again with Bobby Ray Inman, Linda, he is renowned for saying exactly what he feels
		uh... not necessarily a team player somebody who will do what he wants to do
		what he wants to do it you have to wonder if it couldn't be something
		as simple as a question put to the new secretary of defense by somebody in the
		press early on about something like this
unidentified		to break it all open we could all hope that would
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		be the case but you have to also remember he may have been independent
		uh... of mind in his career but you cannot have served in the agencies that he has and
		not be some kind of a team player
		And I think personally that the reason that the policy of silence of this government and probably other countries has survived for so long is art.
		This is a story that is very difficult to tell.
		People don't have the ears and the mindset to hear about another life form or intelligence involved with the planet in all these various facets that we talk about every week.
		So it may be that it has been easy for the government to wait out a kind of generational shift, one generation, second generation.
		Now we're moving into a third generation since the 1940s.
		And even if Bobby Ray Inman knows specific details, he may also be saying, look, We have to wait a number of more years before we can tell the whole story.
		But my point of view personally is, as a person who has come, lived in the United States and been a journalist and a writer, is, at least in this government structure, that we as a public, we need to know more about what the truth is.
		Because it may affect our future.
		And that's the part that I think is the hard nut to crack.
		The government has a story it doesn't know how to tell, but it also is representing a public that, by constitutional rights, has a right to know, and by future rights should know, in order to make some kind of informed comment or reaction to what may unfold next year or the year after.
		And that's the hard part and it may be something that would be worth asking the radio listeners.
		They were in the shoes of an administration and they were faced with the complete and total knowledge that we had another intelligence interacting with this planet that was other than human and more sophisticated.
		Would it make sense to inform the entire planet now Or would there be arguments to perpetuate the policy of silence?
		That would be a very interesting question to debate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it sure would, Linda.
		Of course, once a lie has been told, the older it gets, I think, the more momentum is accrued toward continuing the lie.
		That's the problem.
		It gets bigger and bigger and bigger every year, and when you finally admit it, or if you were to announce it, You would be revealing the fact that for this X number of years, you have been lying to the American public.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And there was one government guy, and I really believe he was talking, uh, heartfelt.
		He said to me, this goes back many years ago, he said, the people associated with, he referred to it as MJ-12, and I I think of MJ-12 now as like the word Kleenex or Xerox or kind of a generic term that simply means people on the inside who have had the very difficult challenge of writing an almost impossible story of contact with another intelligence that we don't comprehend and it apparently does not comprehend us very well.
		That this MJ-12 generic term would refer to people That this man said, this was the quote to me, they would rather be dead before this story comes out.
		Now, the only reason that I can think about that is that it has been such a complex horse to ride, so to speak, of dealing with other knowledge.
		That was completely outside of the experience of the planet as a whole on a natural day-to-day basis.
		And that there were certain people in our government and other governments who had knowledge that was completely outside of the day-to-day survival and activities of our planet.
		And that over the last 50 years that they have had to make the hardest decisions about whether or not they kept this information to themselves and monitored whatever was going on, or would they reveal part of it?
		If they revealed part of the story about contact from another intelligence, how far would it unravel?
		How big would the story go?
		And then the only issue would be If the status quo of our political, religious, and social, and money, and all of that, would it remain in the same status quo as it exists?
		And it may be that the government has had psychiatrists and psychologists and various other people hired telling them, once you open this Pandora's box, you have to be ready with answers Or you're going to have an unruly mask on your hand.
		And if anything like that happened to ours, the policy of silence by government may not be as insidious as it has been portrayed sometimes.
		It may actually have been an act of benevolence, an effort to ignorance's bliss.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know they're going to paint it that way, surely.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And in the long run, here we are, sitting at the transition of centuries.
		And it may be that there are a lot of people, we'll call it, inside this generic MJ-12, using that simply as a symbol of people on the inside and not knowing what it's called now.
		They may want the story out, but that they're afraid of the repercussions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Linda, As always, a wonderful report, and you generated plenty of questions with it, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Things to think about.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		So, and when you start with Chad, who is a true friend and colleague, this go-over to the Clop circles raises this interesting question that Colin Andrews, George Wingfield, and others three, four years ago said, why is it that the English army It seems to be, and that's not proven, but it seems to be involved with creating hoaxes in the cross circles in order to convince the rest of the world that there's nothing to this phenomenon but a hoax.
		We know that the science says the hoax does not answer it.
		Why would the English military have been called into action to create something to cover it up You've really caught me by surprise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		English Army, how is the English Army, how are they or were they involved, Linda?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		It's back to the 90 and 91 research that was done where BBC TV, Nippon Television, others brought infrared, they brought star scopes, they brought a whole series of cameras and higher-tech technology into the cross-circle summers with the idea that they would track it, watch it, monitor it for two weeks at a time and see if they could find anything that would give them an insight as to how these circles were made.
		During one of those watches, it found in the middle of the circle that there was a Bible, some sticks, and some candles, and very odd things.
		Colin Andrews said at the time, George Winkle said at the time, that they had sources inside of England who said That the army in England had been, or people were telling them, that the army had been ordered by someone to put those particular elements, a Bible and a candle and some various odd things, inside of the middle of the circle.
		The whole point being that they were trying to move the crop circles, apparently, into some kind of For lack of a better word, we'll just say occult or mystical association.
		And to take it completely away from the possibility that there actually was something from somewhere else in the universe perhaps involved with our planet.
		None of us know who is making the crop circles, but the fact that people were in England and getting, we'll call it underground, non-proven but at least so-called confidential sources saying that the military was even involved in keeping the story quiet.
		It comes to this huge issue.
		Why?
		Why would crop circles around the world be considered a national security issue by any government?
		Why would the entire planet not be involved with Uh, tracking, monitoring, and trying to find out what was behind the cross-circle phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good segue to Chad Deepkin.
		Um, Linda, as always, it's wonderful.
		Next week, where do we find you?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		I should be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, in Philadelphia.
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I sure appreciate your report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a great segue.
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		And thank you, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Thank you, Linda.
		That's...
		Linda Howe with a glimpse into another reality, actually, the reality that we're going to be exploring in just a moment with Chad Deacon.
		This is Area 2000.
unidentified		From Jackie Gons' Pleasure Downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And good evening from Las Vegas.
		I'm Art Bell, Area 2000 underway.
		My guest, Chad Deepkin, is founder of Pacific Research.
		He has been conducting extensive investigations into the crop circle phenomenon since 1990, both in Canada and in England.
		His specialty, detecting and photographing physical anomalies which cannot be accounted for, repeating, which cannot be accounted for, by hoaxing.
		In 1992, he was a member of Project Argus, the most extensive scientific research ever to date.
		His findings provided a substantial portion of the Argus Report, and were recently reprinted in the MUFON Journal.
		He is founder of Pacific Research, as I said, has written many articles, as well as an 18-page report on Canadian crop circles.
		He's been interviewed numerous times on radio, television, and in the newspapers.
		And has lectured in Vancouver, Bath, Glastonbury, England, and the Whole Life UFO Conference in New York.
		Although he works independently, he is in close contact with key researchers such as Colin Andrews, George Wingfield, Dr. W. C. Levengood, and many others.
		Here is Chad Deacon.
		Chad, good evening.
		Welcome to the program.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for having me on again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Where do we find you?
		Where are you this evening?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		I'm currently in Seattle, enjoying Christmas with my relatives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've got a better connection than we did at that phone booth in England.
		Chad, I guess I'd like to begin with your career.
		How and why you got into all this?
		What in the world led you into this kind of research, Chad?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Art, I've been interested in UFOs in the past, but not more than most ordinary citizens.
		Until 1990, when I saw a TV show, Unsolved Mysteries.
		It was on crop circles.
		It was quite a good show, and that was the first time I'd ever been exposed to the crop circle phenomenon.
		And once I heard about the facts of this strange phenomenon, I realized immediately that there was something very, very odd going on that we cannot explain in any way in traditional terms.
		Our science and technology was not able to explain what was going on here.
		It seemed to me that it was like a door that was opening to possibly another dimension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When, Chad, did the whole crop circle phenomenon begin?
		I mean, has it been going on forever?
		Is it just something that we noticed suddenly and, you know, had been going on for some time, do you think?
		Or did it have a definitive beginning?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		It's very, very difficult to trace it back throughout history, although we do find occasional references to a phenomenon that appears to be similar to crop circles.
		But it really came into public prominence in the late 70s and early 80s.
		And the reason for that is because they started appearing in numbers in one particular area of the world, and that is in South Central England, in an area of Stonehenge, Avebury, Silbury, megalithic monuments, dating back to pre-Druid times.
		During the early 80s, Uh, the numbers were quite minor.
		There were maybe, uh, three, four, five, half a dozen per year.
		And progressively, each year, we saw more and more.
		And Colin Andrews and Pat Delgado were one of the first researchers that, uh, started investigating this on a full-time basis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But at that point it was apparently confined to, uh, Great Britain?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Yes, it was.
		And not only that, but they were just simple circles.
		That's how it began.
		Very few in number.
		And over the next few years, through the 80s, each year progressively saw more and more of these circles and they became more and more complex.
		So there was a definite evolutionary process involved here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When, uh, when you were in England, I had a chance, as you'll recall, to chat with a fellow who claimed that he was faking crop circles and had done many.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um, so you've looked at this aspect of it.
		It makes the whole thing very controversial.
		Fellow people like him, um, I think, uh, convinced the public it doesn't take much.
		One man admitting that he's been faking it and everybody goes, oh, well, okay.
		And they dismiss it.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That fellow is Robert Irving that we had in the phone booth with us.
		The approach I take to crop circles is a physical investigation.
		I look at the actual way the stems are bent, any sort of anomalous effect on the ground, etc., etc.
		I look for footprints and any other signs that I can find in trying to determine whether a person could have been responsible for this.
		And when we're talking about crop circles to the public, I think this is the most important thing to address, because that is the most obvious answer that comes to people's minds, is that, oh, these things are just hoaxes, and it's a bunch of college students or whatnot having fun with researchers, and that the more us researchers look at the phenomenon, the more people try to have fun with it.
		So I think it's important to lay this to rest.
		There's no reason, there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever, and I've spent four years at this, That people, although there have been some hostages perpetrated, that people simply are not involved in the vast majority of these crop circles.
unidentified		It's just not possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
		I guess is my next question.
		Why is it not possible?
		And what do you see in human-produced crop circles that you don't see in the others?
		Or turn that question around.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Okay, first of all, there are several people involved here.
		Probably the most prominent ones are Doug and Dave.
		They were the two elderly gentlemen who first came forward about three years ago.
		They're British and they went to the press and said that they had created all the crop circles since 1978.
		Then Robert Irving came along and also a strange fellow named Jim Schnabel.
		Now, what these people all have in common is that not one Not one of them has any proof that they had done any of the formations.
		These are simply claims, and we've put all four of them to test.
		We've got them to make crop circles in public.
		Doug and Dave were filmed making a crop circle, a very famous case, and it was presented on a video called the Crop Circle Community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I saw them.
		They had a board and a chain and They would tromp about with it.
		So what did you notice of their efforts?
		Could they produce one in the time allotted?
		And did it meet the requirements of other crop circles that you've examined?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		No, they actually failed dismally.
		We allowed them to make a crop circle in ideal conditions, in daylight in other words.
		All crops, the vast majority of crop circles are made at night.
		We allowed them to use ideal conditions.
		They only got halfway done in their allotted time.
		They had to quit.
		The other reason they quit is because the result was very obviously quite authentic.
		Most of the stocks are still standing up.
		They popped up.
		It looks quite a mess.
		There was no beautiful flow to the lay of the crop at all.
		And when you look at an authentic one, most of them have an incredibly beautiful lay.
		They're perfectly pressed flat to the ground.
		They look like they've been combed into place.
		When the light is shining off them, they have a tremendous shame to them.
		It's just a very beautiful thing to behold.
		And none of these people, Doug and Dave, Robert Earnest, or Jim Stubble, have ever been able to produce anything in public that looks like the Ring of Fire.
		So that's one reason.
		Another reason is that there are so many anomalous effects that I have photographed and recorded that simply can't be done by the human hand.
		And some of these effects are multiple layering.
		It's where you get the intersection of, say, a path with a ring, or a path with a circle.
		I have seen as many as four different layers, and it's not just one layer of crop on top of the other going in different directions, but they're interwoven with each other without any damage to the stalks.
		You'll have to remember that the stalks are very brittle.
		Most of the formations that grow late in the harvest season, and they're very dried out.
		You try to bend them the slightest bit and they will crimp or break.
		What I saw had no crimp and there was no sign of footprint in the foil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you suggesting that the stalks are so brittle that pressed as they are in the making of the circle, whatever it is that does it, they should have broken?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Not in just pushing them down, they will be crimped, but in trying to interweave them You have to look at it like weaving a cloth.
		It's quite intricate.
		In doing that by hand, you have to bend them seriously, and you'll find crimps or bends at various places along the stock.
		Whereas in an authentic crop circle, there's only one single bend, and that is at the ground level.
unidentified		Hmm.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Other things I've seen is, in some cases, literally thousands of individual stocks still standing.
		Single individual stocks.
		Most of them are just inches apart, and they had never been flat to the ground.
		There was no crimp or any mark of a crease.
		They had simply never gone down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		While getting all the other ones around them.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		And anybody using a mechanical device, it would have had to be just inches wide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or even one would imagine a meteorological explanation of some sort would also affect them uniformly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's weird.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and we've looked at every possible explanation, and Like initially we're just trying to eliminate people because they've caused us the most problems.
		The claims of hoaxes.
		So we've tried to eliminate those and with what I've described and there are literally dozens of other things I have noted that simply couldn't be done by human beings.
		Not only that but I've approached Robert Irving and Doug Bauer of the Doug and Dave team.
		Asked them about these strange anomalous effects And they didn't even have any idea what I was talking about.
		They had no idea what I was talking about to them.
		Their answer to me was simply that, we just make them.
		We can't describe, we can't explain to you what you find.
		You're probably imagining things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just out of idle curiosity, why would Dave and Doug, why would they do this?
		Is it just to get people going?
		I mean, what reason do they give?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Well, those two fellows claimed that they were doing it for fun. It started out as a
		prank and because of the response that they got from us, the attention, that they discontinued
		it and did more and more and more. Now, first of all, you have to realize that there have
		been over 3,000 formations just in England since the early 80s. So these two guys are
		trying to claim having done 3,000 formations only during the three months of summer, pretty
		well, because that's the time you find crop circles, sneaking out at night three times
		a week without their wives knowing that they were out in the field, spending at least four
		to six hours at night, usually in very dismal conditions.
		If you've ever been to England, even in the summer, you know it's pretty rough out there.
		A lot of rain, cold, dank, muddy fields, and that they were doing this for fun.
		It really defines the imagination.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doesn't add up.
		Besides, Where else are crop circles now found?
		It obviously is not just Great Britain.
		I know there have been reports here in this country.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine in your Canada.
		And elsewhere.
		How much of a worldwide phenomenon is it now?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		We've been averaging about one to two dozen in Canada per season.
		The same goes for the States.
		This is just a rough estimate.
		We've got reports from Holland, from Eastern Europe, from Russia.
		From Germany, from Japan, from Australia.
		I've left out a few countries, but there are... Basically worldwide.
		Pretty well worldwide.
		Interestingly enough, mostly in industrial nations.
		We don't know why that is, but there have been many, many, many thousands.
		And let's face it, Doug and Dave don't fly around the world.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What evidence is there, Chad, that whatever ...is doing this, is also doing it in other areas.
		Is there any evidence of that at all?
		In other words, is there ever any disturbed dirt or anything else that would indicate that had there been a crop there, you would have ended up with a crop circle, if you follow me, in any point other than in the middle of some farmer's crop?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
		Um, we get many, many reports from people that we can't substantiate.
		We get no photographs or real proof.
		We have had several reports of circles in trees, but we haven't been able to substantiate that.
		I've heard of a few in ice fields in the north, uh, and a few other odd places, but, uh, again, we have no evidence of this.
		I take it just to be mistaken identity, and the numbers have been so small that, um, we're not even paying much attention to them.
		I would say 99.5% at least of all the ones that have been reported to us have been in crops, which is a very interesting phenomenon in itself, because I look at the... I don't know what the intelligence is that's making these, but I know it's not an earthly intelligence.
		It's something alien.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Whatever it is, if I were them and I were trying to leave traces on Earth to get people's attention, I couldn't think of a better canvas than wheat fields or any kind of planted crop because if nobody sees it at the time that it's created, it will certainly be found by the farmer at harvest time.
		It's an absolute guarantee that it will be found.
		And you can't put it anywhere else on this planet, or you get an athlete guarantee it will be seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, let's say it is that, and alien intelligence is behind it.
		Chad, what have we made of them so far?
		Do we see any message?
		Do we see, are we able to decipher any meaning in any of them so far?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Well, there have been tantalizing meanings we have seen at some astrological time.
		Uh, such as the sign for Venus, Mars, Mercury.
		Uh, but not that often.
		We have seen tantalizing hints at ancient languages, such as ancient Hebrew, uh, Egyptian hieroglyphics, et cetera, et cetera.
		But nothing that we can really put a finger on, or nothing that will spell out a message to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems more like these are symbols... Alright, let's try this avenue.
		How about anything Repetitive.
		In other words, do you see any patterns frequently recurring?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Not really, no.
		The only pattern that we've seen frequently recurring are simple circles.
		Or circles with rings on them.
		Sometimes there's a vague resemblance from one year to the next of a few.
		But most of them are brand new, new designs, new patterns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you're looking for some sign of a message, and I realize that I may be looking out of my own dimension, or within my own dimension and not looking out of mine, you look for anything we would understand, as you suggested, planetary symbols, some sort of language, some repetitive nature to what's being done, something that would tell you that it's an intelligence rather than a random occurrence.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		That's pretty well without doubt.
		There is an intelligence involved.
		Not just in the placing of the formations in wheat and across fields.
		We have only on one or two occasions got them to go across roads or anything of that nature.
		They're always placed quite nicely in fields.
		So they're well aimed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about percentage of fakes?
		Now, obviously you were unable to examine every one of them that occurred or even perhaps most of them.
		But in those you did examine, did you ever find one that you declared a fake, or one that you thought perhaps a farmer did to attract attention and charge admission or whatever?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		I haven't personally gone into one that I could absolutely declare a fake as.
		I have gone into quite a few where I can't say for sure whether they're fakes or not.
		There's just not enough in the formation, there's not enough complexity For me to say absolutely that this is a genuine phenomenon, or a circle, or that this is a fake, I will simply say I don't have enough information on it, therefore... Well, have you ever detected a farmer, for example, charging admission?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, whether it was an obvious profit motive?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No.
		And I'd like to address that aspect.
		There have been very, very few farmers, and they've all been in England, who have charged admission.
		And I really sympathize with their plight.
		When they get a crop formation in their field, first of all, because it's laying so flat, they literally lose hundreds of dollars in lost harvest because they can't pick it up anymore.
		Not only that, but people will go charging into their fields from all different angles, tromping through more crops.
		They're faced with a loss, and simply what they're really trying to do is recover some of that loss.
		And it's not a profit-making kind of thing.
		They never make up for the loss.
		They have to have somebody in place.
		They have to pay this person to collect the money.
		And they really don't get enough people looking at them to make it worthwhile.
		They're just... I only know of two or three farmers that have done this to date out of the thousands of circles we've seen.
		So the profit motive is not there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		I've never seen anything really suspicious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There are molecular, reportedly molecular, changes.
		in this wheat, and I wonder if you can catch us up on that at all.
		That seems an area of fruitful research.
		In other words, changes that would occur that you would not see occur
		simply by crushing the crop normally.
		What do you find?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, first of all, Dr. Levengood, who is a biophysicist in Michigan,
		a very respected biophysicist, he's retired now, he has taken on looking at crop samples in his laboratory.
		He's spent thousands of hours, literally, the last three years looking at this.
		What he has just recently come up with, first of all, he didn't know what to look for, so it took him quite a long time to know what part of the plant to look for, what changes to look for, etc.
		He has just come out with this recent report, which is quite definitive.
		This is a real bright light for us in trying to prove the difference between a Hoek's circle or Something like wind damage and the real phenomenon.
		What he has found, just to put it very simply, is in the cell wall of the plant, especially around the seed head, there's what is called a microfibral tissue.
		Now that's the tissue that looks like cheesecloth when you blow it up on a microscope.
		And this allows for the transfer of nutrients between the cells.
		In this tissue, through this tissue, is an ion transfer.
		And he has found that in affected crops, the ion transfer is much greater than in an unaffected crop.
		These microfibral tissue holes, that I would call them, where the ions, that the ions transfer through, are enlarged, substantially enlarged, allowing for a faster, freer flow of ions.
		And that, you will not find in a mechanically damaged How would we produce that effect if we wanted to?
		About the only known way that he has come up with is through microwave activity.
		He has put stocks into microwave ovens and blasted them for 20 seconds or something of that nature and has gotten Not identical, but similar effect, which leads us to believe that the energy involved in this is of a microwave nature.
		Not saying it is microwave, we're just saying it's something similar to microwave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the other thing we realize... This is going to begin to get a little technical, Chad, but it may well be that the microwave frequency used on the stocks would determine or would vary The effect on the stalks and on the membrane, the cell wall tissue you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if Dr. Levengood has experimented at all with varying the microwave frequency.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if he's gotten to that point in his lab.
		This report just came out about a month ago, and it's very time-consuming, the test that he's doing.
		But certainly if he hasn't done it yet, he will be doing it to see He's trying to estimate what the amount of energy that is required.
		He's got a pretty good idea already and it's massive energy that's involved.
		I know people have asked me, how do you know it's not coming from a satellite?
		But this is a Star Wars technology.
		It's sort of a laser beam coming down and curving.
		We have a few cases that go back into the 60s.
		It's unlikely that we had that sort of technology then, and we certainly don't have it even today.
		Not that we know of.
		Also, the amount of energy required would kill, literally kill, animals in the field, such as mice, hedgehogs, birds, insects, and things of that nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now there's a good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But no matter the source of the energy, wouldn't the effect on the animals arguably be the same?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		The effect on the animals would be totally devastating.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		It would, uh... Yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what I'm saying, Chad, is whether it was Star Wars technology that would produce something, or microwave energy of that magnitude, or whether it's aliens, shouldn't the effect on the animals be the same?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well that's a good point, for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And yet it isn't, is it?
		It's only affecting the crops.
		Have you detected anything in terms of dead animals, microorganisms, that sort of thing?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		We have never detected any dead animals in any of the formations except for two cases.
		And these occurred in Saskatchewan, in Canada.
		Very odd cases.
		One that I was involved in, and it was a dead porcupine.
		Found in the middle of a crop circle.
unidentified		It was not only dead, but it was completely flat and dehydrated.
unidentified		It had been squished to about two inches in thickness.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		The tails on its back were swirled in the same direction as the swirl of the circle itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now that is significant.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		That is very significant.
		It's one of these oddities that we can't, we don't know what to make of it because we haven't seen it before.
		But one possible explanation here is that porcupines, their natural response to danger is not to run away like other animals would, it's to curl up in a ball.
		And that is possibly what happened.
		This unfortunate creature was caught in an area that was about to be turned into a craft circle, rolled up in a ball, and got caught by the energy and killed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that's fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did anybody work with, do any sort of autopsy or look at this animal, poor animal?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Not on this one, because by the time we found out, it was too late to do a laboratory analysis, but from that case, a farmer phoned me and said that in 1989 he had had a similar case, and this is the only other one we know of, of a dead porcupine found in a crop circle.
		He didn't know at the time that it was a crop circle, He called the police.
		He suspected it was some sort of satanic ritual that occurred in his field.
		He called the RCMP.
		They took tissue samples from the porcupine, or the remains of the porcupine.
		It was mostly a blackened area, about three feet by three feet.
		The only thing that was left of the porcupine were the quills and the bones.
		It was completely blackened and sort of soot, covered in sort of soot.
		The stocks of wheat were unaffected.
		It was only the animal itself.
		They sent some samples off to a laboratory to find out if there was any burning involved, as from a fire, because they did suspect it was satanic worship.
		The lab report came back and it was negative.
		And unfortunately, they didn't do any more testing on it than that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then it was as if it had been cooked again by microwaves.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Completely fried.
		Completely fried.
		All the tissue, all the flesh was gone.
		All that remained were the quills and the bones.
		But again, these are the only two cases we know of, for whatever reason.
		Now again, getting back to the Star Wars technology, you would have to ask yourself, if this is what's going on, then why would they choose such heavily populated areas in central England to carry out these experiments?
		Somebody would be sure to be killed at some point.
		There are people in the field practically every night watching fields, watching for new formations being formed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's something I certainly want to ask you about.
		We have a break here at the top of the hour, Chad.
		Five minutes of news.
		It'll give you about five minutes to relax, all right?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, stay right where you are.
		Chad Deepkin is my guest.
		The subject, crop circles.
		A lot more to it than I thought, and we'll be talking more about it in a moment.
		This is area 2000.
unidentified		♪♪ From Jackie Gons' Plaza downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a fool, Jesse.
		It's Sunday evening, and so here we are, as we are every Sunday between 8 o'clock and 10 o'clock Pacific Standard Time.
		I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Chad Deacon.
		The subject, crop circles, and a fascinating one it is.
		Chad, are you still there?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		I'm third.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wanted to ask you next about humans.
		Indeed, they've had watches out, they've had cameras planted, they've looked for these crop circles to be in formation.
		Have they ever found it?
		Have they ever photographed one in the making?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Well, they haven't.
		We've been incredibly frustrated.
		Nobody... People have reported seeing them made, but we don't know what to make of it.
		The actual pharmaceutical researchers themselves have never seen one being made, and I have spent many, many nights out in the field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What details have you had from anybody who claims to have seen them in the making?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did they say?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		The common thing that they say is that the air is very still before it happens, dead calm.
		Suddenly the heads of the wheat start waving back and forth violently, back and forth, back and forth.
		There is a whistling and howling sound, although there is no real wind around, and suddenly within a split second all the crops The conditions that you just described, Chad, are similar to those described by people who are in the vicinity of a tornado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		described are similar to those described by people who are in the vicinity of the tornado
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		yes yes that is true It's very similar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very still prior to the occurrence.
		They hear the noise.
		In the desert, which is where I am very much in the desert, Chad, we have these mini-tornadoes.
		One did a little damage out near my home recently.
		They're not really tornadoes as we understand them.
		They're certainly not spawned by a storm.
		But they are created through some sort of meteorological condition, or swirling of winds, or I don't know precisely what does it, Chad, but have you looked into that?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, yes, we've looked into that, all sorts of meteorological conditions.
		In England in particular, because of the rain and the stiff winds they get occasionally, and the rolling hills, which catches the wind at odd angles, There's a lot of damage to the fields.
		I've seen fields that were up to 75% damage, flattened, or mostly flattened.
		The crop circles, they're no resemblance whatsoever to any kind of wind damage that anybody has ever seen.
		They are like cookie cutters, stamped out, very, very clean, clear, defined edges, whereas wind damage is just what you would expect.
		Undefined, usually, Very lengthy corridors where the wind touches down and then picks up again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would seem to eliminate wind then.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, back to humans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has there ever been a human standing in the middle of a created crop circle?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		The middle of a crop circle as it was created?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nobody.
unidentified		No.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Uh, the closest we got is people who have been several hundred feet away.
		And these were in the daytime, by the way.
		They were not at night.
		And, uh, we have to take their word for it.
		We have no photographic evidence.
unidentified		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um, then, your best evidence, um, you would consider to be right about the fact that these are related, uh, uh, for example, um, the relationship to UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it a tight relationship, Chad, or very loose, or what do you think?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Well, personally, I'm guessing, but personally, there is a loose relationship to UFOs that may be a lot tighter than I realize.
		We have seen strange lights over the fields at night.
		Last year, in 1992, there was a sighting Near a cross-circle by a team of researchers of a structured UFO.
		It wasn't that far away.
		It was Stephen Greer.
		You've probably heard of him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have, yes.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		But so far, there were at least five witnesses.
		They all report the same thing.
		One of the witnesses is a friend of mine.
		A very, very rational person.
		I believe what he says.
		It was a three-dimensional fletcher craft.
		They saw the light.
unidentified		It went around.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		They heard what we were saying.
unidentified		They hadn't even heard anything.
unidentified		They shared the light.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		It was just a few.
unidentified		Rather than unusual sightings.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Other than that, there have been lights reported at night, and a few times in the daytime, and we have this on film, silvery objects were seen skimming across the tops of wheat fields.
		And strangely enough, these Objects were very small.
		Anywhere from a foot to three feet in diameter.
		But shiny, silvery objects.
		Self-propelled evidence, obviously.
		You can see from the motion.
		But other than that, there were a few other reports of strange lights like Ferris wheels in the sky.
		But I myself have not seen any of these.
		The best I can tell you is that one night we were on a crop watch And there was a tremendous flash on the horizon.
		It seemed to be quite a ways away, sort of like sheet lightning.
		But in fact, it was very close to us.
		All the lights went out in the village where I was staying.
		And the electric company had no idea why the lights went out, and they had no idea what the flash was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you go on prop watches?
		Yes.
		And I take it you just pick a high point, and do you use night vision equipment, or what do you do on one of these watches?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		We do have night vision equipment, and I personally use a camera.
		I have a wide-angle lens on it.
		I put it on a tripod, and I'll take time exposures from anywhere from five minutes to half an hour, and then see what I get on the photograph the next day.
		In one particular incident, this is the best one I've been on, we mostly come up empty-handed, but in one incident, there was a very large formation in a field, and that was in August of this year.
		Beautiful formation.
		Very, very spectacular.
		Very strange anomalous effect in the lake.
		I had a powerful feeling that this field was super energized and I wanted to go back that same night.
		I thought something else might happen.
		So I went back in my car with a friend and we parked on a hill overlooking the field.
		We sat there.
		I took pictures.
		We sat there until about 2.30 in the morning.
		It was quite cold.
		And, uh, we just got cold and tired, and we didn't want to leave the car running all night, so we thought, well, we'll turn it off and just let it sit and sleep.
unidentified		First thing in the morning to be brave, thinking, and daring to show this.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		There was a brand new addition to the, uh, crop circle that we had been watching.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um, I'm sure you kicked yourself around for a while on that one.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		It's really typical, Art, when they're not being watched, things happen, even to your back sometimes.
		Um, 2020, which is ABC TV program.
		They did a night watch a few years back.
		Sitting on top of a hill with very sophisticated camera equipment with about a dozen people.
		They were looking down in a field where they had a lot of formation.
		And all the cameras running all night.
		Next morning when the sun came up, they looked down, there was nothing.
		And somebody said, oh my God, look to your back.
		Right behind him in a field behind, there was a huge formation.
		No!
		Largest one to date.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh boy.
		Oh boy.
		Um, then you share, really, the same frustration that the people trying to research this UFO phenomenon do.
		Uh, it just, it occurs and occurs and keeps occurring, but not so that you can carefully and scientifically document it, uh, and almost seems to avoid, uh, areas where there are researchers or florists, and as you have just said, it must be tremendously frustrating.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		It's incredibly frustrating.
		We run into this constantly.
		About two years ago, Colin Andrews and a crew did the same thing.
		They were on a night watch with sophisticated equipment.
		They watched a field.
		They were up on a hill watching a field.
		They sat up all night.
		Just before the sun came up, when it was so dark, a fog descended on the field.
		There are many, many witnesses to this.
		They have it on film.
		A fog descended on this field, which is not totally uncommon in England.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me guess, when the fog lifted?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There it was.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		There it was.
		They were right in front of their eyes, but they couldn't penetrate the fog.
		There it was.
		And this happened time and time again.
		It's very, very obvious.
		The intelligence does not want to be seen.
		It's taking a great length to evaluate and testing it.
		You mentioned Project Argus last year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What exactly was that?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Project Argus was funded mostly by a grant, a very generous grant from the Bigelow Foundation.
		And it was an effort, an international effort by about two dozen, two to three dozen people.
		About half of them were scientists.
		We went out and we used all kinds of electronic instruments, anything that we could think of to try to determine Mostly what the energy is that's involved in it is to try to detect it coming from the sky, from the ground.
		We try to find traces of radiation in the crop and the soil.
		We took soil samples and sent them back to have them analyzed in labs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to suggest, Chad, what about the possibility, if there is the funding, for some sort of microwave energy sensor, or sensors, placed in a lot of likely locations?
		That might yield some information, since it seems to be a microwave radiation doing this, or maybe.
		Wouldn't that be an idea?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		It's a great idea, and we actually did it this year.
		By the way, that Project Argus didn't come up with a smoking gun.
		We got some very interesting... What were the final conclusions of the report?
		Well, the final conclusions of the report were that electronically we weren't able to detect anything.
		But again, with the physical anomalous effects on the ground and other things that we couldn't really put under a microscope, we continue to gather tantalizing information.
		When you put it all together, you cannot get a full picture of it.
		But we're gathering more and more information.
		What really came out of Project Argus is that we were able to eliminate tests that we didn't need to do anymore because we have quite frankly exhausted them.
		Which is very helpful.
		It tends to focus our projects for the following year.
		And this year, as I mentioned, microwave was one of the detections.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Chad, do you speak from time to time about the Leavenworth?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		I'm in regular contact with him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you ask him for me if he's considered experimenting with varying the microwave frequency and trying to produce an identical effect to the one he observes on the cell wall tissue?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That might yield some interesting results if you could actually pin down the rough frequency that's being used.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		He has done experiments on the amount of energy that's required to get an equivalent effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what he's concluded?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Um... He told me about a... He told me about a year ago when he was doing this that something in the nature of a... Now don't quote me exactly on this, but it's something in the nature of a 20 to 30 second blast of microwave energy from a household microwave oven.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Now you have to remember that this is very, very close quarters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I understand.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		You're only inches away.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		And to get the same effect From an airplane or a satellite, the energy is absolutely mind-boggling and we simply don't have a microwave generator that is capable of creating that much power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Particularly from that far up in space, it would have to be a geosynchronous satellite that puts it 22,500 miles above Earth.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and again, it would be so incredibly dangerous that somebody would have been killed by now.
		Or at least somebody would have detected the energy.
		Getting back to what Dr. Levin did, I did a test myself on germination.
		He did some germination tests.
		In other words, taking the seeds from crop circles and from controlled samples outside of the crop circles to get a comparison and germinating them under laboratory conditions.
		I did this under laboratory conditions at home and the results were the same as his.
		Very odd.
		The seeds from the crop circle germinated much faster and at a much higher rate than the seeds from outside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happens to the seeds of the stalks that he puts into a microwave oven to try to produce a similar effect?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you get a similar effect with the seeds?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Don't believe he's done a germination test on them yet, although it's obvious that this will be the next one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good question, isn't it?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And furthermore, after the germination, when I began to grow them, I turned them in my garden.
		And I'm trying to print a set under very bad conditions in full shade and another set in full sunlight to do a comparison of how fast they grow.
		Right.
		The set, the control and from the circle sample in the full sun, there was no difference in the growth.
		They grew normally.
		But the set that was in the full shade, which is very bad conditions for wheat, they need sun.
		The seeds from the crop circle It grew at a very fast rate.
		Almost normal.
		Not quite.
		They were a bit stunted.
		But almost normal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As compared to the other sample, which was?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		It grew twice as tall.
unidentified		Wow.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		We have no idea why.
		Something has affected the seeds.
		The energy that caused the cross circle has affected the seeds in such a way that it's changed something in the genetic makeup of the seeds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then he's going to surely want to follow up with the artificially produced radiation and see if he can get a similar effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fascinating.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he would be doing that this winter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're in that weird period of time, Chad, now between Christmas and New Year.
		And it's traditional to make predictions.
		So I thought I would ask you to make one in the area of crop circles.
		What do you think is going to go on in this next year?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a tough one, but judging from the past, I would venture to guess that the crop circles are going to become even more complex and that each year we have gotten more tantalizing information on the crop circles.
		It's to keep our attention.
		I mean, these are obviously to get our attention.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Whatever reason.
		I think there's going to be more of that.
		We're going to get more information and we may Hopefully get closer to what the purpose of these are and where they're coming from Well, perhaps you're right perhaps up until now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's been to get our attention and maybe once once our attention is fully focused We'll begin to see some sort of message or but documentably you're suggesting every year we're getting more crop circles that too is very interesting and Not necessarily more.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		The height of the crop circle numbers were in 1990, in which season there were 1,000, just in England, in one single season.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		1991, they cut back to about half of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1992, about 400.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		And this year, 1993, somewhere around 300.
		All right, Chad, let me ask this.
		in one single season. 1991 they cut back to about half of that. 1992 about 400 and
		this year 1993 somewhere around 300. All right, Chad, let me ask this. What you're
art bell ▲ ● ▼		suggesting is not very far off the peak of the Sun cycle.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, uh, we are now very much in a declining, uh, mode for the 11-year, uh, sun cycle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has anybody done any research, uh, into a relationship?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Well, Dr. Levengood, being a true conservative scientist, believes that this has to do with the sunspot activity.
unidentified		Oh!
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		He, he wants, uh, he wanted me to say that because He doesn't believe in alien intelligence or anything of that nature.
		And to us, that's fine.
		He's a good scientist.
		What's really important to us is his research and the results of it.
		Well, I had a discussion with Dr. Levengood and I said, OK, supposing the energy that's involved here has something to do with sunspot activity.
		I can accept that.
		But what I can't accept is that how this energy could be, could randomly affect wheat fields in such a way To create these incredible patterns in the field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is no specific explanation.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it would have to be a guided energy.
		And there are two aspects of the crop circle.
		One is that there's an energy involved in allowing the wheat to go down.
		And the other one is that it is guided, just like a paintbrush.
		I look at the whole phenomenon like an artist, using the energy like a paintbrush to draw on a canvas of wheat.
		These spectacular patterns to gain our attention.
		That's the closest analogy I can make.
		And not only that, but I see different... If you would have entities or artists involved, there's some similarities between some of the formations.
		You can almost see that the same entity is involved in certain ones.
		They have certain characteristics that are similar.
		And that goes for Canada, comparing with some of the ones I've seen in England.
		Some are very, very sophisticated, incredibly beautifully laid down.
		Others are much more childlike in their nature, and maybe not quite as well laid down.
		And also, there are varying amounts of energy that are applied.
		Some are flat to the ground.
		Others are maybe just a few inches off the ground.
		They haven't been completely pressed down, as if less energy was involved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, coming back to the sun cycle, I, of course, spots, what we call sun spots, are actually flares and we get flares from the sun most frequently at
		high activity points during that 11 year cycle but I know of no specific energy, nowhere near that
		specific, that could affect the earth, through the atmosphere, none at all
		nevertheless, what kind of parallels has he been able to make between sunspot activity and crop circle activity?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		simply that the period around 1990 was the height of sunspot activity and that coincides with the sheer numbers of crop
art bell ▲ ● ▼		circles seen Yes, and has there been a decline that coincides roughly with the decline in the sunspot cycle count?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Apparently, yes.
		It is now in the decline, and we're seeing a decline in the numbers of the crop circles.
		But again, the complexity is picking up.
		They're much, much more complex than ever before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that wouldn't make sense.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, it just doesn't tie in.
		We have looked literally at hundreds and hundreds of different explanations.
		We have people with PhDs in all different disciplines, including mathematics, music, You name it.
		It's just because it's more and more tantalizing.
		It's more of a challenge all the time.
		And I might add, Ed, Art, that not only am I looking at the physical anomaly,
		the anomalous effects in the field itself, like in the stocks and the soil, etc.,
		but also the strange effects that are noted on equipment that we've been using.
		And this is another category that isn't talked about very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right. Tell us.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		It's worth mentioning.
		I'll give you an example of this here.
		For one thing, I and most people have noted headaches as we walk into the cross circle.
		Quite pronounced.
		Not a painful headache, but just like somebody put their hand on your brain and started squeezing a little bit.
		And this sensation ends once you leave the area.
		Not in all of them, but in a lot of them.
		And in one formation, I always have a tape recorder, a little pocket tape recorder.
		I put it in the center of the formation, where the center swirl is, and lay it on the ground, and I just let it record while I'm photographing and doing my measurements and things.
		Because in the past, there have been electronic beepings and chirping that have been recorded, so I'm just curious to see if I can pick any of this up.
		In this one particular incident, the tape recorder recorded for a full hour, When I took it back and listened to it, I realized that the entire recording from beginning to end ran at half speed.
		Exactly at half speed.
		And I know that because you can hear us talking.
		Occasionally you can hear voices.
		The whole thing ran at half speed.
		It wasn't because the batteries were going dead, because it wasn't declining in speed.
		It was exactly the same speed.
		This tape recorder is not capable of recording at any other speed.
		And it's never done it before.
		It's never done it since.
		There's nothing wrong with the unit.
		I've had it analyzed.
		In that same formation, a German film crew came in and wanted to film me pointing out these anomalies.
		On the ground, we went ahead with it.
		They had a fully charged battery pack.
		They had a needle on their camera that showed a full charge.
		The battery pack normally lasts about 35 to 40 minutes.
		Their battery was flat, completely stone dead within 8 minutes.
		They were totally amazed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That chat would indicate some strong electromagnetic activity of some sort, and that seems to me could be measured.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		You would think it could be measured, but we haven't to date found any instrument that will measure it.
		And interestingly enough, we have only experienced this sort of battery, rapid battery drain is what we call it, on rechargeable batteries.
		It hasn't been noted on ordinary throw-away batteries.
		Only on rechargeable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On NICATs.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Another phenomenon that occurred again this year but has been noted in the past is camera failures.
		I flew with three other people.
		Two of us had mechanical cameras like Pentaxes with no electronics.
		The third person had a fully electronic camera.
		Everything was electronic.
		An $800 camera.
		He could not get a photograph of one particular formation when he flew over it.
		The camera jammed every single time.
		Yet when he aimed it out the other side of the window of the plane, it worked perfectly.
		And every time he aimed it back at the crop formation down below, it jammed on him.
		He never did get a picture of it.
		That also is quite common.
		Or a film that won't develop.
		You take pictures and the photographs of one particular formation are all blank,
		Everything else is perfectly, perfectly in focus, perfectly exposed, everything's perfect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well that would certainly indicate the presence of some sort of energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chad, stand by one second while I ID the radio station here.
unidentified		here. What's up? From Jackie Gons Plaza downtown, this is KDWN Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and this is Area 2000.
		Good evening, I'm Art Bell.
		My guest is Chad Deacon, and I'm going to open up the telephone lines now.
		So let me give you a quick version of the numbers.
		You're welcome to call us with a question, if you like.
		In the metropolitan area of Las Vegas, the number is 383.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		8255 or 8255.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Toll free, outside the state, it's 1-800-338-8255.
		The wildcard direct dial lines are area code 702-385-7214.
		Outside the state it's 1-800-338-8255.
		The wildcard direct dial lines are area code 702-385-7214.
		And finally, if you have never called the program at all, use this line, the first time caller line at area code 702-385-7213.
		72.13 with all the long distance lines.
		Please allow them to ring until they're answered.
		We'll come to you as soon as we can.
		If you're disconnected, pick it up and try again.
		Chad, are you there?
		All right.
		If you're up to it, I would like to let you subject you to a little bit of the The Great Unwashed American Public with questions.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		That sounds a lot of fun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, it is.
		Let's see what we can do.
		Wild Card Line 3, good evening.
		You're on the air with Chad Deacon.
unidentified		Yes, two questions.
		One for Mr. Bell and one for Mr. Deacon.
		Mr. Bell, you mentioned that Defense Secretary Delving that Inman had been asked by a Maryland investigator about Mg-12,
		but you did not mention what Mr. Inman's reaction was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was allegedly. No, you go right ahead if you wish.
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		I was waiting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
		All right.
		Well, we'll get further into that.
		It was kind of a side topic from what we're now on.
		So, you had a question otherwise?
unidentified		Yes.
		Mr. Deacon, I'm interested in whether in Project Argus you had more fully explored the Star
		Wars technology, microwaves or lasers as possibly being a cause of the crop circles.
		You mentioned that the determined excess energy would have to be involved, which would have
		killed mice and hedgehogs, but I understand that there is a very finely focused, finely
		tuned technology involved with the Star Wars technology, which would be able perhaps by
		computerized programs to create interweaving or multi-layering of the technology.
		I'm interested in what you've explored this more deeply.
		And again, also, I'm interested in what Mr. Barr's reaction is to the first question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		All right, well, that would divert us entirely from where we are to talk about the Bobby Ray Inman business.
		So let's just focus, Chad, if we can, on his question to you, and that is the Star Wars technology aspect.
		How hard did you look at that?
unidentified		Well, it's difficult to deal with the unknown.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		First of all, we have literally several hundred miles to cover, even though most of these craft formations are happening in a relatively small area, say 30 miles, a 30-mile circular area.
		It's difficult to cover all the fields and to get the instrumentation in there.
		But I would just say again, that since crop circles were known before the late 1970s, we have some cases, including in Canada.
		It's hard to imagine that this sort of technology, even if it exists today, which I highly doubt, and most of us doubt this, that it would have existed back then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One might guess, though, that if it did exist, farmers' fields might be of Pretty good place to test it.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they would.
		But why continue for 15, 20 years?
		True.
		And there's so much attention when there are literally hundreds and hundreds of people around in very, very close proximity to these.
		It just seems like it's too dangerous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Particularly as people like yourself began to seriously investigate it, you would think at that point they would halt it.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		And if the government were carrying out secret experiments, Wouldn't they be more inclined to do it in a closed-off area, say like Area 51, where the public can't get into?
		Why would they choose a populated area?
		There are many, many aspects that we have thought about that simply don't add up.
		They just don't make any sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, let's keep moving here.
		On the first time caller line, good evening.
		You're on the air with Chad Deacon.
unidentified		Hello there.
unidentified		Hi, this is George in Orange, California.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Hi, George.
unidentified		Uh, well, the comment I'd like to make is, uh, is that, uh, well, the, well, what this is is a crop circle, but, uh, you know, but it was, uh, blanketed in a very cloud and storm.
		It's exactly the same experience that people have who, uh, heard UFOs or who have become abducted by UFOs.
		They claim that the atmosphere around them became totally still and quiet.
		at the time of their abduction and it just seems like there are...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see a relationship there. All right, caller, thank you.
		Chad, what about that? There is a connection between the two phenomena,
		a kind of a very still atmosphere just before the event.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly. And looking at all the facts, most of us would have to say that the UFO connection
		is probably the strongest even though we don't have any absolute evidence.
		Nothing points more to anything else like UFOs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So while it is a loose connection, according to your own words earlier, it is nevertheless the best connection?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		The best we can come up with at this time.
		We know that there's an intelligence involved.
		It's very, very plain to us.
		It's playing little games with us, and we feel its presence.
		It plays little tricks with us.
		And it's certainly... It must be of an alien nature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, Wild Card Line 3, good evening, you're on the air with Chad Deacon.
unidentified		Hello, this is Mike from Redding, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Mike.
		Turn your radio off, Mike.
		There is a delay system here, everybody, so please, when you get on the air, immediately turn your radio off.
unidentified		There was a story I heard recently about a crop circle that, when they looked at the pattern on the crop circle, they found a coin inside the crop circle that had the same pattern imprinted on it.
unidentified		Have you heard anything about that story at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where was this coin?
unidentified		This was supposedly a crop circle in England.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chad, have you heard anything of that?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Not of that particular one, but it sounds an awful like the one in Germany.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Colin, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was one like that in Germany?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		The famous case in Germany of a complex crop formation.
		It was many circles joined together by lines.
		And a fellow went into it.
		A lot of mystery around this one, but we know the facts.
		But the fellow went into it with a metal detector.
		We don't know why, because nobody else has done it before.
		And in the center of the circle, one of the circles, he dug up three metal objects and they turned out to be plates.
		One was pure gold, one was pure silver, and I believe the third was pure bronze.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow!
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		And it had the imprint, the exact imprint of the crop formation on it.
		It was taken away very fast.
		It was bought up by a collector.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow!
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		The gold one was melted down, but apparently the silver one and the bronze one still exist.
		Now, we... Again, like anything else, there are a lot of strange stories surrounding this.
		What the absolute facts are, we don't know.
		It's one-of-a-kind again.
		It's never happened before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If this is an authentic case... Well, have there been similar searches, Chad, made of crop circles looking for this?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Well, people will dig up the center of crop circles.
		I've run into this quite often.
		If you're not the first one there, if you're there a day or two later, you'll find that the center quite often is gone.
		Somebody's taken a shovel and taken all the dirt away for souvenir, for testing, or for... Alright, we're talking to a very wide part of the world right now, Chad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of states, a lot of them farming states.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you could give any advice to a farmer who might have a crop circle suddenly appear, what would you tell the farmer?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Number one, Don't let anybody into it until a researcher has been there.
		This is really, really critical for us, especially for me.
		I need to get in there before anybody else does to check for footprints, before the stocks are crushed, before any damage has been done to it, to try to get some samples, to do the photography, to look at it very closely.
		After I or other people like me have spent, say, two, three, four hours in it, Then it could be open to the public.
		Now, this is really difficult, but that's the one thing I always ask of farmers.
		Please, please, please save it in its pristine form until we get there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, look, I'm going to put myself in the position of a farmer.
		I go out one morning.
		Somehow I'm on the higher ground.
		I look out.
		Oh, my God, there is a big crop circle right in the middle of my field.
		I'm going to go flip open the yellow pages to crop circles.
		Uh-uh.
		I mean, who do I call?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Generally the first people they call are UFO researchers or if they don't have them, they'll phone the press.
		In England, I'm talking mostly about North America because of the vast areas we're covering.
		In Canada, I'm trying to cover 600,000 square miles.
		In England, we're talking about a very small area with a lot of rolling hills.
		The vast majority of the cross circles are discovered either by the farmer or by somebody driving by first thing in the morning because there's hills all over and they're easily seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you get a call, Chad, that one's occurred somewhere, even if you did go and investigate, presumably most times they're hundreds or maybe even thousands of miles away, you can't possibly get there fast enough to do any research before, you know, a whole herd of people have gone over it.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Especially in Canada, this is very true and it's a problem.
		Last year I was fortunate enough to be called by a farmer who I knew from before.
		He phoned me up and said he had a brand new crop circle in oats.
		It was a circle with a ring around it.
		He asked me if I wanted to come out and look at it.
		A few people had already been there and I said, well, okay, I'll do it.
		I may not get another chance in Canada this year.
		So I flew out to see it.
		I got there about noon the next day.
		And a brand new one had formed that very night.
		He knew it wasn't there before.
		It was within sight of the road.
		Not a well-traveled road, because he had traveled by it that evening on his way home.
		It wasn't there in the evening.
		It was there the first thing in the morning.
		He knew I was coming, but he didn't tell anybody, and he watched it from across the road to make sure nobody else would go into it.
		He didn't touch it.
		I was the first one into that, and that was a really precious one for me.
		It wasn't very complex, but it was really important.
		I spent six hours in it, crawling on my hands and knees, starting from the very outside, looking for footprints, for one, in the soil.
		Very dry soil.
		I didn't find one single clot of earth disturbed, pressed down or disturbed in any way.
		In this particular formation, the wheat, uh, this one occurred in wheat, although the one he phoned me about was in oats.
		The wheat wasn't completely pressed flat to the ground.
		It was a few inches off the ground.
		Which showed that if anybody had done it with an instrument, you would not have had the wheat popped up a few inches.
		So, no physical object of any kind had been in this crop circle, which proved to me, this was one of the rare cases, that no human was involved in this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		It not possibly has been.
		Also, in Canada, we don't have any tram lines like they do in England, sort of tractor marks.
		There's no way to get into the field without leaving a trail.
		You'd have to be dropped by helicopter.
		There's no other way to get in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what a puzzle.
		All right, Chad, let's keep moving.
		Line 1, good evening.
		You're on the air with Chad Deacon.
unidentified		Yeah, Chad, I had a conversation with Paul Winfield this last week here in Las Vegas at the UFO convention.
		Apparently, he said, and I was in search of because I'm studying the old ancient Hebrew text and ancient languages in correlation with the cross circles, It appeared to me at first when I started doing this that if anybody was going to try and give us a message, the first thing they'd do is send us their alphabet.
		And if the simplest cross circles are a form of teaching us their alphabet, the more that we've had time to study them, the more complex the sentences would be.
		I asked him if he had a copy of any research done on the chronological order of appearance and locations, and he said to date he doesn't know of anybody that has a listing of chronological order of appearance.
		Do you know where I could get hold of something like that?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		I think your best source would be Colin Andrews.
unidentified		Colin?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Who lives in Connecticut.
unidentified		And you had said once before that there's been other studies on this.
		What actual messages have they come up with, or what sentences have they come up with?
		Because I've come up with at least one.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there was a couple of cases where it almost looked like writing.
		These were crop formations, at least that's what we call them, but they look more like hieroglyphic writing.
		And one was supposedly translated by a fellow in California, Eric Beckhold, and the translation was so odd that I hesitate to repeat it.
		It said that, uh, fill up your... It said, fill up your wells.
		There's a drought coming.
		Huh!
		That's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, that would be relevant for a farmer, I suppose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller, what did you get?
unidentified		Well, there's one sentence that we were able to depict was, the serpent race returned.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		The serpent race returned?
unidentified		Yes.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Which formation would that have been?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		In England?
unidentified		Yes, it was one out of the earlier ones in England.
unidentified		But it seems to me that if If the government had anything to do with it, they certainly wouldn't be doing it in a field and immediately going out and erasing it.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		And if the message, if it is in fact a message, then it means that whoever is trying to give the common people the message, the government doesn't want the common people to know what the message is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller, could you supply Chad Deacon with a photograph of the one from which you deciphered that message?
unidentified		If you give his name and if you give his address and everything, I'm sure we can get in touch with him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll do it.
		Thank you.
		All right, so there you have it.
		What is your address?
		How would he send you something, Chad?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it's Pacific Research, Box 74537, 2803 West 4th Avenue, Vancouver, British Columbia,
		Canada, and the postal code V6K1RZ.
		Yeah, I would appreciate any information from anyone, because that's what we're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, you better do all that again, that's a long address.
unidentified		It is, yeah.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's box 74537 and the street address 2803 West 4th Avenue, Vancouver, Canada, V6K1R0.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's some address.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Long address, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		Well, hopefully he will send you a copy of that.
		That's fascinating.
		All right, on the first time caller line, good evening.
		You're on the air with Chad Deitken.
unidentified		Well, uh, are any of these crop circles in Scotland?
linda moulton howe ▲ ● ▼		You've mentioned only England.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh, true.
		Thank you, caller.
		Uh, what about Scotland, Chad?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		I believe there have been a few.
		Uh, something like half a dozen, perhaps, at the most.
		And there have been a few in Wales.
		But again, the vast, vast majority are in South Central England.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Line, line two, good evening.
		You're on the air with Chad Deacon.
unidentified		Good evening.
		You know, it appears to me that the, um, Some of these crop circle formations resemble schematics for electronic circuits, especially if you place them in certain configurations.
		It also appears to me that some of the characteristics of the crop formations, like you were saying you couldn't take pictures of certain ones, certain anomalies involved with the formation of the circles have characteristics of I don't know if you're familiar with Wilhelm Reich and his experimentations with organ energy.
		A lot of the characteristics that are displayed in these crop circles were the same type of effects that he got with organ energy.
		Also, are you familiar with radionics at all?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, well let's hold it there, thank you.
		Nevertheless, his comment about a schematic is of some interest.
		Maybe we're looking at it, Chad, in the wrong way.
		An electronic schematic.
		I've not seen the similarities, but who's to say that they're trying to give us a schematic of electronics that we understand?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Well, that leads us to one of our biggest frustrations, or at least my biggest frustration.
		What I say quite often is, if these intelligences are so advanced, Why can't they give us language that we can understand?
		If these indeed are communications, or some form of language, or schematics of something or other, why not talk to us on our own level?
		We have put 12 years of research into this and a lot of really good minds working at
		it and we haven't been able to come up with anything of significance in the way of a language
		or any kind of meaning like that.
		Why fool around?
		Why not just put it in English?
		Why not even Latin, German, whatever?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, if they really intended to communicate with us, that certainly is true.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Sure, talk to us on our own level.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hmm.
		Alright, puzzle after puzzle, more questions and answers.
		Alcard Line 3, good evening, you're on the air with Chad Deacon.
unidentified		Good evening, this is Fitch calling.
		It's only fair that I announce that tomorrow, Monday, the Mandela-Williams Show will also have a UFO program for those out there in the UFO land.
		I'm sure you're going to tune in.
		Now, I would say this, it is my firm belief that the crop circle phenomena is definitely connected with UFOs, but with our current level of scientific knowledge and understanding, and Chet just pointed out, it is very difficult to analyze that pattern after all it is a All right, Fritz.
		Good question.
		or what I call from below.
		But my scenario is this, that above 1,000 or 2,000 feet in a different dimension, six to six graph,
		looking through a dimensional window and just like a slight projection to a screen,
		the focus and create a crack, circle formation, prior awareness.
		Since we don't look up, we have to catch our eyes looking down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Fritz, good, good question.
		Another dimension, that the craft itself is in another dimension, Chad.
		A lot of work being done about other dimensions, period, as it relates to UFOs and travel and all the rest of it.
		What do you think about that?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Well... Sure, that is a definite possibility.
		For one thing, we're looking at the crop circles not just in two-dimensional plane, but in a three-dimensional plane, and we're getting computer... using computer graphics to try to do that.
		And as far as trying to find out where this intelligence is coming from, it could very well be from another dimension, another... Yeah, toward that end, Chad, have they taken a computer and modeled these circles in different dimensions, looking for some sense to them in other dimensions, as if, for example, you would view them from the side rather than from above?
		Absolutely, yes.
		There's a lot of work being done in that right now.
		It's relatively new, and we have a long ways to go yet.
		What we're finding, getting back to the language and symbolism, possibly electronic circuits or whatever, we're finding a very interesting mathematical relationship in the crop circles.
		It's based on a diatonic scale, which is a musical scale.
		taking the diameters and the distances that circles are apart from each other
		and the widths of paths that connect them, etc., etc.
		There's a very, very interesting relationship there.
		So possibly, if there is a language, it may be mathematical, and maybe they are trying to talk to us on that level, a
		very simple mathematical level.
		Gerald Hawkins has done a lot of work on that.
		Nothing definite yet, but the most tantalizing area yet to be explored
		the mathematical aspect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, hopefully you'll update us.
		I'd sure like to keep track of what's happening, Chad, so I hope you'll keep in touch.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		There are constant developments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Good evening on the First Time Caller line.
		You're on the air with Chad Deacon.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Yes, a question.
		Somebody has a crop circle to report.
		How are they going to get through by writing a letter quickly enough?
		And I have another question after that.
		All right.
		Those are a phone number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chad, is there a number or a central reporting point, or how does somebody do this?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		I'll give out my phone number.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you sure you want to do that now?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Sure, that's fine.
		Alright.
		It's area code 604.
		Okay.
unidentified		732-0092.
unidentified		0090?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		0092, corrector.
		I'll read it again.
		0-0-9-2. 0-0-9-0? 0-0-9-2, correct. I'll read it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is that, Chad? It's in Vancouver.
		i'll read it again where where is that Vancouver, British Columbia.
		Area code 604-732-0092.
		Right now.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		And the other thing is that I was in England in 78 around Stonehenge and traveling around the country and remember seeing these large indentations in these very low cut grass fields and it was almost like looking at a golf course and seeing these big round circles that had little channels going into other circles And there was also mounds that were protruding above the ground that were very strange, and I never got an explanation for those.
		What year was that?
		In 77.
unidentified		77.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		That is pretty well pre-cross-circle time.
		They may have been mounds, burial mounds.
		I've been to Stonehenge several times, and all around Stonehenge are very low mounds.
		They're only about 4 to 10 feet high, and they keep They cover them in grass.
		They're not crops, in fact.
		They're grass, and they keep them closely cropped.
		But I don't really know what you were looking at, but I doubt if it was crop circles.
		Well, they're not really crop circles, but the other things, they were, like, just right on the ground, and indentions in the ground, maybe eight inches deep, and perfect circles, and just everything seemed very symmetrical.
		They were just all over the countryside.
		But they have been ancient excavations, or excavations for the stones.
		The large stones that they built Stonehenge with.
		In a crop circle, you don't get an indentation in the ground.
		There's no physical imprint whatsoever.
		It's only the crop that is bent, flattened to the ground.
		But the ground itself is physically untouched.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you, Caller.
		Chad, again, You know, if that kind of radiation was used, or some sort of radiation, one would think that it would also affect the microorganisms that are normally found teeming in fertile earth.
		And would that not be another area of investigation?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Sure, yeah, and it has been investigated.
		The microorganism is very sensitive, of course, and any small amount of energy would affect it drastically, and we have found No effect.
		Also insects, there are tons of insects in the fields at all times.
		Grasshoppers, aphids, things of that nature.
		They would also be affected and they haven't been.
		Only those two porcupines.
		I just don't know why porcupines would have been virtually cremated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is just enough to drive you up a tree.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		It's just no evidence that you can find time and time again.
		There are little bits and pieces of different things.
		When you piece them all together, you simply, like a puzzle, you don't... It doesn't fit together.
		You can't get a whole picture.
		At least not yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this will drive you then to continue to investigate all of this.
		How are you going to proceed?
		We're very short on time now.
		But where does your investigation go from here, Chad?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Back to England.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back to England?
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yeah.
		Next year I'll be going back for another month.
		There will be more scientific testing, more instruments used, more observations, etc.
		Anything we could possibly think of.
		There are a lot of very imaginative people, scientists included, involved in this.
		Until we can get the smoking gun, so to say, we won't stop.
		Once you're a crop circle investigator, you cannot put it down.
		It's totally infectious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, you have been a joy to interview.
		It's been great.
		I'm sorry we could use hours more, but we don't have them.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you very much, Eric.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		It was a pleasure to be on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chad, I would like to be sure to invite you back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to have you back again.
chad deacon ▲ ● ▼		Sure, I'll give you an update for the coming year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wonderful.
		Chad Deacon, thank you.
		And that's it, folks.
		I'm sorry, we're out of time.
		We'll do this again next Sunday evening.
		At 8 to all of you left on the line, thank you for being so patient.
		I'm sorry we didn't get you all in.
		Remember, your contact at the Bigelow Foundation is Angela Thompson at area code 702-456-1606.
		2456-1606 for Area 2000, I'm Art Bell.
		The preceding program was made possible by a grant from the Bigelow Foundation.
		This has been Area 2000, a program that introduces our listeners to the scientific approach for discussion of two particular subjects, UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences.
		To contact the Bigelow Foundation, please call during the week between 9 a.m.
		and 5 p.m.
		Area code 702-456-1606.
		Ask for Angela Thompson.
		That's area code 702-456-1606.
		And be with us next Sunday evening at 8 for another edition of Area 2000.
unidentified		Kaiser Downtown.

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