Art Bell’s 1993 Halloween Area 2000 episode features Michael Lindemann of the 2020 Group, arguing the U.S. government’s 50-year UFO silence stems from WWII-era fears of societal collapse, with "quasi-disclosure" tactics like MJ-12 documents—likely a 95% hoax—to normalize abduction narratives in media. Don Berliner, NICAP co-founder and Crash at Corona author, details the 1947 Roswell incident’s credible witnesses but no physical evidence, comparing it to modern "funny lights" skepticism while speculating on alien tech influencing inventions like Velcro. Callers debate abduction consistency, humanoid variations, and government disinformation, with Lindemann warning sudden revelations could trigger violence. The episode suggests UFO secrecy reflects deep institutional anxiety over technology and cultural upheaval, not just cover-ups. [Automatically generated summary]
This program introduces our listeners to the scientific approach to discussion of two particular subjects: UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences.
To contact the Bigelow Foundation during the work week, call Angela Thompson between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. at Area Code 702-456-1606.
That's Angela Thompson at Area Code 702-456-1606.
And now, Area 2000.
On Halloween.
Good evening, everybody, and welcome to Area 2000.
I'm Art Bell.
This week, George Knapp is traveling someplace or another and will not be with us.
We'll catch up with George Knapp last week.
Of course, we had two full hours of George last week.
And by the way, that was a very, very popular program.
An awful lot of people have called me about that particular program, and we'll have George back on again.
But this week, he's traveling.
However, with a glimpse into another reality, we do have with us from, I'm guessing, the San Francisco Bay Area this evening, Linda Howe.
I have been one of the speakers at a conference here this weekend.
And with me is a colleague, Michael Lindemann, who is head of the 2020 group in California, a futurist who is interested in the various trends, sociologically, politically, and economically of the future.
And one of the subjects that he thinks plays an important role in what may be coming is, I implicate, implication of UFO phenomenon.
And I thought it would be interesting tonight to discuss with him a question that all of us are provoked by, and that is, why would the government of the United States have a policy of silence about the UFO phenomenon for at least 50 years if the alleged testimonies of people in military and government are true that we have been essentially covering up crash disks and alien bodies since the 1940s.
So I would like to introduce Michael Lindemann, who has a background in theology and in psychology, and who is now working on future trends to discuss this issue of a policy of silence.
2020 group is a private research organization, ART, and basically we're studying forces that shape the future.
And that includes a wide variety of forces.
But as a futurist, over the last four years, I've looked a great deal at the UFO controversy and have come to the conclusion that it is perhaps one of the largest and certainly one of the least recognized forces that will impinge upon our future, that is causing the human future to evolve in an unexpected direction.
Well, I base that on a great many things, Art, but if we go back to the question that Linda posed, I think that what we see in the ongoing currency of government secrecy is a premonition that the reality of an alien presence on planet Earth would have profound and largely unpredictable social consequences.
I think it's the recognition of that likelihood, which is probably something they've thought about since at least the early 50s, if not earlier than that, that probably provokes the secrecy to this day.
And what they're seeing today is that they can no longer contain the secret in the way they used to.
The so-called UFO cover-up has actually evolved through several stages.
And today we see basically that the containment policy of secrecy is completely breached.
It's not working at all anymore.
So instead, we have a kind of a nuanced quasi-disclosure policy, which is actually very far from telling the truth, but it's a holding action.
You might say it's a damage control operation today.
Well, it's very difficult to be certain of that, but I consider it a matter of rather considerable curiosity, for example, that after 31 years of dead silence, suddenly a great many Roswell people were willing to talk.
I'm not saying there's any conspiracy around that, but it's very interesting to me.
No one has yet claimed responsibility for it, and yet I would say the evidence is piling up that MJ-12 is actually a hoax, but it's a very important hoax.
I'm still open to the possibility that it's real, but frankly, it's about a 95% hoax there.
And the idea that it would come forward in a way that is extremely difficult to penetrate, that no one would lay claim to it, and that despite the likelihood it's a hoax, it is So carefully constructed that it has all the appearance of a genuine document, that has a signature on it of disinformation, very high level.
Someone is trying to perpetrate a conversation in our culture about this material.
Someone wants to nuance or spin the public understanding of this information.
But one thing's for sure, the amount of alien imagery in our culture is skyrocketing.
We see it in all different venues.
We see it in the straight press.
We see it on television, all kinds of specials, both fictional and documentary.
We see it to a mind-boggling degree in advertising.
There's a whole, in fact, a very strong undercurrent of abduction themes in all kinds, everything from television sitcoms to advertising for all kinds of different products, whether you're talking about hamburgers, telephones, airplanes, or anything else, we're seeing this undercurrent of thematic material about abduction.
This to me is absolutely extraordinary.
I search my soul asking the question, is this really a strong hook for selling hamburgers or Hondas?
And I say to myself, I don't know about that, but I do know this.
Today, and this is something that I show every single time I give a public talk, I throw up on the screen a cartoon.
It's a Ziggy cartoon.
You know, that little kind of doeboy, funny guy?
Sure.
Okay, Ziggy is driving along the street.
It's after dark.
There's a billboard.
And on the billboard, there is a flying saucer, very clear, a line drawing, flying saucer.
Under it, a couple of lines come down that look like probably what you'd say, a beam of light.
And in the beam of light, five or six little stick figures kind of floating upwards, okay?
Oh, that's a pretty clear symbol.
You know what it means.
I know what it means.
Underneath, it says three words, next five miles.
Now, check it out.
I use that.
I believe that that is a Rorschach test of our culture.
Okay?
I believe that that is a symbolic test of a social experiment that has been wildly successful.
The real consequence of it is that people have gotten so used to the idea that abduction is real that this extraordinarily bizarre abstraction in this cartoon doesn't phase them anymore.
We don't know who they are, where they're from, or what they want.
But I do think that if there is an acceleration underway, and I have a sense there is, but I can't prove that, the acceleration is being driven entirely by the aliens.
unidentified
The human sign has been foot-dragging as hard as ever.
I believe there are at least five or six different reasons which all are kind of interlocking.
Reason number one, certainly, was that in 1947, if not sooner, in fact, probably during World War II, when they had the Foo Fighter phenomenon, which was very strong, and then the ghost rockets over Scandinavia and other places right after the war, especially in 1947, just after we had invented the atomic bomb, we had Jonathan Stalin on the scene, we had new technologies that destroyed radar and so forth.
I mean, we had entered a new era, and suddenly we got flying saucers literally littering the sky, but also littering the ground outside Roswell, New Mexico, and other places.
And suddenly we've got a very real question.
Are we being invaded from space?
Militarily speaking, that was absolutely the question of the day.
The second reason was that they thought that even if we didn't have to, even if we didn't have aliens in space, what we did have was we had a vast proliferation of stories of flying crosses, and they were really worried that it would cause public panic and pandemonium no matter what.
And so the CIA by 1952 was recommending to President Eisenhower that they institute a policy, official policy of debunking.
And the reason was not that they thought the aliens were actually a national security risk.
In fact, by 1952, they had actually lowered their estimation of the risk involved in the aliens themselves because the aliens were not showing overt hostility, but they did think that public interest in the subject was a terrible problem.
And so they actually said, we've got to get people to stop thinking about this.
And how they did it was a combination of denial and ridicule.
Now, the third reason for secrecy, without a doubt, was they really thought they might have a secret weapon on their hands here.
Now, if you, for example, if some very deep inside group knew that we had recovered alien wreckage from Roswell, I happen to think we did.
Many others do too.
So some inside group knows about this, and they're looking at an alien spacecraft.
They're looking at alien technology on board, and they think to themselves, wait a minute, isn't this what we want?
Don't we want the ultimate edge?
Is this the ultimate edge?
Have we got something here that no one else has got, no one else can get for a thousand years?
Is this it?
Is this the Pandora's box?
And are we going to keep that secret?
You bet your life we're going to keep that secret.
And I want to talk to you about the public panic aspect of it.
Now, with what's been going on in modern society, people like you talking to people like our audience, has the public panic aspect of it, should there be a revelation about all this, has that changed?
Would the public still panic?
Is it well, in your view, that they would be told or now, or should it be kept as deep and dark as ever?
I ask just about every researcher this, and you sound like you'd be a good candidate, if you had incontrovertible evidence that you could go on television and trot out, and suddenly it would all be open, out in the open, would you do it?
If the evidence were the kind that had the overt appearance of something extremely hostile or extremely scary, I would have a lot of second thoughts about it, but I would want to move in the direction of revealing it as fast as possible.
Knowing that I had the smoking gun in my hands, I would do everything in my power to bring people along fast to where they could actually grasp it at a later date.
Now, if it were not very scary, very hostile kind of material, I would say, yes, let's bring it out.
I would.
And I think that there has been enough change, enough evolution of human awareness that we could probably get away with it.
But whenever it happens, it's risky.
I don't see any time in the foreseeable future when it wouldn't be risky, but it becomes increasingly untenable to stall for more time.
I cannot speak at all for the aliens position, but I can speak to the idea that the government that has tried so hard to keep this under wraps has always perceived grave political risk in saying anything really legitimate about this.
I don't think those risks are substantially changed, although I think that I said, with the containment of the secrecy absolutely breached, there's a lot of effort to bring people along.
The risk is that people won't handle it well or that it will precipitate unpredictable changes.
This confronts so many of our basic belief structures.
We don't know what alien technology will do to our science.
We just don't know.
We certainly don't know what revelations of alien activity on this planet are going to do to our religious structures.
And I have a feeling it's going to do something pretty horrendous.
Not necessarily bad, but in the short run, it's going to look like a lot of cherished belief systems are being assaulted by something, you know, akin to...
I think that that right there, you put your finger on the risk.
And that is why I say there is no time in the foreseeable future when we're going to be able to eliminate the risk.
But we also cannot eliminate the fact that this is happening.
And so what I feel we have to do is bring people along as fast as we can with the strongest, most credible, most balanced material we can find, and bring them along to where there will not be a huge surprise.
Because sooner or later, this is going to be in our face.
Whenever I give a talk, I tell my audiences that I feel it is basically fundamentally important that they pick up one or another of the major Roswell books, and there have been several good ones lately, including the one that Don and Stan Friedman wrote, and just learn the basic chronology.
It is the most important single case we have.
I think it's also important to recognize that it's not the only case, that there are many, many other strong corroborating cases.
But Roswell sets the tone in so many ways because it has so many quality witnesses.
It has all of the features, all of the claims for the basic UFO phenomena are there.
The technology, the recovery, the bodies, the witnesses, and the cover-up, all in one huge, beautifully packaged picture.
And if we had no other case but that case, we would have enough to build something pretty strong.
Fascinating and fascinating getting all this from your perspective as somebody who looks at trends and toward the future.
And you see all of this increasing towards some, toward what, Michael, toward a revelation eventually?
And how do you picture it coming?
Will somebody come out with the President of the United States, trot out with a big primetime evening news address and tell the American people the truth suddenly?
Well, the government usually trots out the truth when they have to.
In other words, when somebody else is about to reveal something or it's going to break in the Washington Post or who knows what, they try to get out ahead of it.
Short of, say, the president announcing something, Don, I've thought about this many times.
If you consider the Kennedy assassination, which has a million theories, just like the UFO business does, if Don Berliner or anybody else came out with yet another, you would purport it to be the truth, and you would have a film, and you would have trajectories showing how the bullet went and all the rest of it, it would be, Don, when all was said and done, still just one more theory thrown onto the pile.
And even if it were the absolute truth, it would be lost in the shuffle.
Your show as an example, and alongside your show, literally hundreds, maybe thousands of other venues that are cropping up around the country and mostly in local markets that are bringing out this material.
We've got more credible research being put out in print and in television work than ever before, by far.
And so what we see here is a sort of a building momentum of information which helps the entire situation along.
I think I have a personal concern that people need to be brought into this gently because none of us handle this kind of surprise very well.
You've made that point yourself and you're absolutely right.
So again, we can't just pitch it to them and expect them to take it lying down.
All right, Don, we're woefully short on time here running over, but you would make a really good guest, and I would like to suggest to Angela Thompson that she contact you from the foundation and perhaps think of you as a guest.
Michael and I have had long and complex discussions for the last four years on a lot of these issues.
And next Sunday, I believe, I'm on the docket for you to log questions to me about some of these facts and eyewitnesses that are global and are supporting the at least circumstantial evidence that something else is involved with our planet.
And I think this current interview that you've just done with Michael Lindeman underscores the difficulty that the government has in getting this out and that some of us who are writing and producing television shows may, in the long run, be the people who are helping them tell the story that they can't tell easily.
And now, John Berliner, a staff writer for the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, between 1965 and 1998, a member of the Executive Committee and National Board of the Fund for UFO Research since 1987.
He wrote, or co-wrote, I guess, or wrote, Crash at Corona, published by Paragon House in 1992.
He is a full-time self-employed aviation and science writer since 1969, with 20 books, hundreds of magazine articles published on American and European aviation history, sporting aviation, space, and science.
And Don Berliner comes to us from Alexandria, Virginia, so to the state of Virginia we go.
It is, by so many people that I've had on this program, considered to be, without a doubt, the best evidence, and there's a lot of new information coming forth now.
What would you say about it, having written that book?
In general, yeah, I agree with some parts of what he said, disagree with other parts, but eventually this has to come out, whether it comes out by the government voluntarily releasing the information or whether the government's forced into doing it or whether it comes out as a result of some major change in alien behavior.
In the early days, the late 40s, early 50s, most sighting reports involved daylight observations where the witness or witnesses were able to produce considerable information on shape, color, detail, maneuvers, that sort of thing.
Today, we get, by and large, funny lights in the night sky, which are next to worthless.
The subject was frequently on the front page of the paper.
This is not the case anymore.
In fact, sightings are a minor part of it anymore.
By the way, while we're on that subject, and I'll try and dig it out, there is an Associated Press report this morning on exactly that topic, and I'm trying to figure out what I might have done with it.
I'll try and locate it, but it's out this morning showing that people who have seen UFOs and have been tested are psychologically no more impaired than anybody else.
But back to this idea of comparing the early days with today, I don't see much in the flow of similarity, frankly.
There was far more public interest in the subject many, many years ago.
They say it was on the front pages, it was on the radio, on television when television became common.
Today, most of the coverage we see is unfortunately under the heading of entertainment because there is not all that much breaking news on the subject, gradual trends, gradual development, but hardly any spectacular sightings that produce news coverage, that warrant news coverage.
And so with abductions, they're so complicated and they are so emotional and so personal, they're very difficult to cover.
unidentified
And so the terrible person are wearing poor Landy.
When we say witnesses, are we talking about people who saw the crash itself, saw the pieces on the ground, saw the alien bodies that some people have talked about?
What kind of witness testimony are we talking about here?
We're talking about people who saw and handled wreckage and can describe it in detail.
We're talking about people who say they were involved in SGIs, in creating a rough, loading it on military aircraft, members of crews that flew this stuff out from Roswell Army Airfield,
including pilots of the transport airplane, people who were involved in the cover-up, people who claim to have seen the remains at other bases.
unidentified
After Randolph Cup.
Oh, well, after battle, we'll have a work of battle.
Len Springfield from Cincinnati, Ohio is the keeper of the archives of that sort of thing, and he's got dozens of reports from people who talk about other crashes.
However, with the exception of the crash near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in 1965, I'm not aware that any of the others has been investigated to any great extent or has been substantiated.
They remain very interesting rumors.
It's quite possible that if people put the same kind of effort into one of those additional cases that we put into the New Mexico business, it would rate right up there with it.
But it hasn't been done, to my knowledge.
And so this particular thing in 1947 pretty much stands alone in its detail and believability and strengthening.
How much evidence is there that what crashed in New Mexico was not some sort of secret government something or another, but indeed something secret, something that they then transported, but something other than alien?
In other words, if you just start picking away at the details that I'm sure even you chronicled in Crash at Corona and start picking away and picking away, how many things can you dismiss from a debunker's point of view?
The alternative explanations that I'm aware of concern balloons, airplanes, and rockets.
None of these things was made of materials that remotely resemble what people said was found on the sheep ranch near Corona.
Not a slight difference, a great difference.
Plus, and there was always a possibility that some advanced aircraft or weapon of some sort was made of some new type of material, but it also would have included conventional materials and parts, rivets, bolts, nuts, screws, whatever.
Nothing of the sort has ever been reported among the wreckage that was found.
And I must tell you, Don, and maybe you can comment on this.
I had my own sighting.
I'm 48 years old.
Never saw a thing like it in my life, Don.
One night on the way home from work, my wife on a very lonely country road, I live about 65 miles west of Las Vegas.
As we were approaching home or near home, she said, what the hell is that?
And looked over my shoulder.
I was driving.
I said, I don't know.
And I stopped the car, turned off the engine, totally quiet.
You could only hear crickets, Don, a quarter of a mile away.
That tells you how quiet it was.
Here comes this gigantic, triangular, very dark shape about 150 feet above me, not high at all, with lights on, white lights on two sides and a strobing red light on the front of the triangle.
It was close enough to me, there was a moon out, that I could see it perfectly.
I could actually make out the mass, the black mass of this thing.
And it was going slowly, could not have been supported in aerodynamic flight at that speed.
I would describe it as floating, floated just almost directly over my car and kept going out across the valley.
It was totally silent, not even the sound of rushing air, and could not have been flying as we understand flying.
And it was big, 100, maybe 150 feet from one edge of the triangle to the other.
It was monstrous.
I've never seen anything like it in my life, Don.
We live close to Area 51.
We're just one valley over, so it might have been government experimental, but I'll guarantee it's technology that I'm not aware of.
I don't know how we would make one of those, frankly.
But just because I don't know doesn't mean that the people in charge of making things like that don't know.
After all, the most advanced airplanes that are generally known to the public are Lockheed's SR-71 Blackbird spy plane, which has been retired and is 25-28-year-old technology, and Lockheed's stealth fighter, which has been around for quite a few years.
So we have to have more advanced types of aircraft.
And I don't know what we've learned in the past couple of decades that has been kept secret.
Well, what did, you know, if there was a crash at Corona, what did we learn from that, do you suppose?
In other words, we must have had the pieces and parts and bodies and this and that, so presumably we'd try to reverse engineer or learn whatever we could learn from it.
Now, it's credited to a Swiss who said he was walking his dog in the woods and noticed how the burrs clung to his trousers and the dog's coat, and he invented Velcro.
And it may not be true because a number of the reports of people who claim to have seen the bodies say that their uniforms were held together without common devices, buttons, zippers, etc.
It's a possibility that deserves to be looked at, and it is being looked at.
Well, according to a history of Bell Labs, and that's where the transistor supposedly was invented, it appeared rather suddenly.
I've seen a reference in one Encyclopedia of Science, I forget the exact name of it, where they said the transistor didn't say it was invented at Beldaz, they said it was discovered.
Well, you discover something that's already in existence.
And I don't know that you can answer the same question with regard to Velcro, but certainly with the transistor, it seems to me somebody who's familiar with technical history and I know something about it could tell us whether that's a logical or illogical technological leap.
All right, Don, I'm going to ask you to rest, just sit down and rest for five minutes, and we'll do a newscast and come back and open the telephones and let some people talk with you.
How's that?
Don Berliner is my guest.
Stay right there, Don.
We'll be back.
You're listening to Area 2000, an occurrence on Sunday evening each, beginning at 8 o'clock, 8 till 10 o'clock each Sunday.
And I want to remind all of you that what you're listening to is provided by the Bigelow Foundation.
And that's a non-trivial matter.
They're arranging for all this.
They arrange for guests.
They sponsor the program with a grant.
And that's why we're here.
If you'd like to contact the Bigelow Foundation, would like something investigated, or you'd like to make a comment on the program, contact Angela Thompson, please.
She's your contact at the Bigelow Foundation.
Angela Thompson, Area Code 702-456-1606.
And it probably wouldn't hurt just to call and thank them for doing this.
That's area code 702-456-1606 if you enjoy the program.
My guest is Don Berliner.
If you have a comment or a question, here are the relevant telephone numbers in the Las Vegas metropolitan area.
The number is 383-8255.
383-8255.
Out of state, toll free.
It's 1-800-338-8255.
1-800-338-8255.
Then we have the wild card direct aisle lines.
Let them ring until they're answered.
Area code 702-385-7214-7214.
And finally, if you have never called at all, the first time caller line at area code 702-385-7213, 7213.
And I'll just ask my question and then let you answer on the air.
Okay.
unidentified
First, is the evidence that you know of substantial enough to suggest that the events described in Whitley Strubber's Communion or other books are real in the common sense?
Okay, as far as the legitimacy of Whitley Streeber's experiences, as described primarily in his first book, Communion, they fit in pretty well with what hundreds and hundreds of other people have described.
And so, yeah, I would assume that this probably did happen to him.
Now, most of his writings on the subject are wrapped up in his own philosophy, his own attempts To explain what was going on, and that's strictly Whitley.
But his descriptions of his experiences fit in very neatly with other people's descriptions of their experiences.
So either they're all genuine or they're all something else.
And so I tend to think that he probably experienced what he described.
And of course, he's far more capable of describing things than the great majority of people.
If they were clever enough, we would never be aware of it.
And so I think it's a very tough question to deal with.
I assume that they are continuing their abduction activities, which means there are probably a number of groups of them landed in various farmers' fields around the country right now.
But as far as aliens who look exactly like people, right there, you've eliminated any mechanism for detecting them.
Say, for the most part, whenever I hear people talking about things dealing with aliens and visits from outer space, it's always when will the government release the information or how is the government going to do it and things like that.
How about the possibility of an alien spacecraft just planes coming out of the sky and exposing themselves to some great population center?
Well, since we don't have any way of encouraging aliens to do that, and it's obviously very much up to them, we just got to sit back and wait for something to happen.
unidentified
Well, it sort of sounds when, you know, for the most part, people seem to think that the government is controlling alien access to Earth.
Let me rephrase it for Don and listen on the air, please.
Don, let's try it from this point of view.
What do you think might happen if an alien spacecraft actually did come down and just hang above a city where it was obvious, nobody could deny it, everybody covered it, CNN rushed over, there it is, an alien spacecraft?
How do you think that our society, the world, would react?
If the whole story were that this huge craft hovered over Los Angeles for an hour and let itself be televised, etc., and then flew away, Then the implications wouldn't be all that great.
However, it landed on second base during the third game of the World Series and a bunch of hideous-looking creatures got out.
Yes, a lot of people have talked, Don, about alien tunneling and that there are mazes of tunnels that run underground, in some cases, from one state to another.
In fact, the first recognized wave of sightings was exactly what Nancy was talking about.
There were reports from coast to coast of what became known as the 1897 airships.
Not all that much similarity to modern UFOs or flying saucers, except that they were just as mysterious.
A lot of the reports were obviously phony, created by unscrupulous newspaper reporters, but it appears that there was also something substantial going on that could not be explained by existing lighter-than-aircraft.
There is almost no lighter-than-aircraft flown in this country.
Is there enough evidence, in your opinion, to suggest that the UFO phenomenon, as we understand it, has been going on nearly forever, as long as we've been recording events?
And I enjoyed the book written by Stan Friedman and Don Berliner.
I thought it was quite well done.
Thank you.
I'm particularly interested in the resolution of the question of where the main crash site is, whether it's somewhere between Corona or in the vicinity of Corona or whether it's in the plains of San Agustin.
With the credibility of one of the characters in the book, Gerald Anderson, being questioned by several writers, I'm also wondering whether there's a disagreement now between you and Stan about adhering to the plains of San Agustin as the main crash site.
The way we express it in the book and the way we still see it is there probably were two crashes, separate crashes.
The great amount of evidence and testimony is for the crash in Corona, near Corona, to the east, in the eastern part of New Mexico.
The crash in the plains of San Agustin, which is in western New Mexico, the main witness, the main eyewitness, is no longer considered reliable by the care of Anderson.
Well, Gerald Anderson claimed to have been with a group of relatives when they stumbled across an intact craft and three bodies and one live one about 150 miles west of the crash site near Corona at about the same time, early July of 47.
And he went into great detail describing the bodies and the behavior of the live one and the craft and the damage to it and what it looked like in the damaged area and on and on and on and when the military arrived and what they did.
And he may well have been there, but he has done and said some things that bother us.
And so I have written a special preface to the paperback edition, which may or may not be published now, in which we state this clearly, that we unfortunately can't rely on him anymore.
And that's life.
This does happen.
You never can pin down a single witness.
You can never prove that a witness is telling the truth.
Don, if I were in the disinformation business or I wanted to quiet all this down, I think what I would do is I would create a very believable UFO incident, something that really seemed solid.
And then a little time later, I think I would prove that it was a complete fraud.
And most of the public, in their minds anyway, would suddenly go, ah, yep, see, nothing to it, really.
I mean, it would really be a service to the disinformation folks.
Well, when they answer, when they answer, he was one for one, and he's got about 200 people that he's working with, and he's an anesthesiologist, hypnotherapist, or whatever.
You know, I don't know any aliens, but since the 60s, I've seen an awful lot of strange people act in strange ways that I would prefer to believe that they're aliens and that the human race has degenerated to that point.
They researched many materials before they came upon the crystal, silica crystal, which has a particular atomic structure which has four holes in it, positives and negatives.
All right, well, you're suggesting then that the leap to semiconductor technology was logical and well researched.
unidentified
It was come about exactly like Edison came about through much experimentation.
As to transistors, the first I know of transistors was in 1947 when my cousin, who never finished high school, as a matter of fact, he never attended high school, but he's some sort of an electrical genius, and he built a radio that worked underground in the subway in New York, and he used transistors, which came from Japan at the time.
If the government is keeping all of this secret, then surely a lot of government intelligence people don't know about this because other guests that I've had on the program say they give lectures, and inevitably some people from the government, even the CIA, will show up for the lectures as interested as anybody else.
And in contact with aliens, whether it be through direct contact in a civilized or peaceful manner, could they possibly be considered our enemies?
And the second part of that question, in contact with aliens in a traumatic or frightening experience, such as an abduction or a possible biological testing, could they be considered our enemies?
And the second question, do all supposed aliens in all documented cases or reported cases for that matter, look like the traditional big head, big eyes, human-like body?
Well, my question would be, supposedly, it's been reported that inside the pyramids, especially in Egypt, that there are paintings on the walls, or many paintings on the walls, of alien spacecraft, little guys coming out and supposedly communicating with the Egyptians.
And my question, I guess, would be, at the time, the Egyptians were supposedly the most technologically advanced culture on the Earth at that time.
And I guess I kind of wonder, did that possibly, if that happened, play a part in our traditional technology that we have today?
We have in this area, Don, an area called the Valley of Fire, which I've been to.
And there are some drawings on the side of some rock canyon areas there that really do look like, I mean, we're talking about stick people here with what appear to be helmets and all the rest of it.
And if you were to press to say what they were, it's a man in a helmet.
Oh, yeah, there are a lot of things like that that look very much like they could have been ancient man's interpretation of some strange things he'd seen.
A lot of people suggest the aliens are here for some sort of genetic renewal or experiment or something that we can, in effect, do something for them or have something they need.
Well, certainly the stories we get from abductees point to great interest on the part of the aliens in the human reproductive process.
But interpreting this is pretty tough.
We don't know why they're doing it.
We don't know if the reasons they give are the truth because we've seen enough evidence of them giving ridiculous explanations and obviously incorrect explanations for things.
In my three or four years working full-time for NICAP back in the 60s, I saw an awful lot of people lose their effectiveness by jumping to conclusions and then losing sight of the difference between theory and fact.
Okay, well, my question is, what do you believe is the method of attaching equipment or joining material on these ships, since there are no nuts or both?
And the other one is, what does the government do when they have a new design of an aircraft, the first thing they do along with it?
You should know that.
You're an aircraft man.
And if you can't answer that, I'll tell you what it is.
Okay, as far as joining parts together, I have no idea.
The descriptions I've gotten from people who say they handled wreckage suggest that it would be very difficult for us to try to make anything out of that kind of material.
No way to drill holes in it, to put rivets through it.
Maybe there's some way to chemically bond it.
I don't know.
But I've never heard anything about how parts were joined together.
John, I don't want to hold any other college up, but I'll give you a hint.
I just have two questions, and it's hard to answer it.
First of all, I think, just very briefly, I think this is from Vegas, Las Vegas, obviously, North Las Vegas.
But anyway, I think that the UFOs are real, and I think we have been genetically sort of inbred, breaded, maybe thousands of years ago, and I don't think that we would be so speeded up in our technology.
That's my thoughts today.
But I want to ask two questions, and I'll let you answer that on the air.
Now, I've asked this before, but I don't know whether we have a big rock out there.
And I was wondering, number one, are there some cases maybe or some type of alien activity on the moon?
And number two, for years people who have seen a UFO, supposedly, they have a blackout, you know, naturally, like they see a light and then they don't remember an hour or two.
They're put under hypnosis, policemen, people that don't have maybe emotional instability, and then they have seen definitely something being examined, you know, and then an ugly-looking humanoid type of people, and maybe it's shock, but there's so much similarities.
I'd like to know what you think of that and the moon question, and let's keep up space research.
Well, if people want to contact the friends to you, if they're interested in what we're up to and like to participate in any way, they're welcome to write to us at post office shop 277, Mount Rainier, Maryland.