Andy Schoonover – Scam Is Over, The Old Health Care System Is Being Replaced With The New
Andy Schoonover is the Founder and CEO of CrowdHealth, a healthcare solution revolutionizing how Americans pay for medical care by replacing traditional insurance with a community-funded model. Andy previously served as CEO of VRI, a healthcare technology company he helped grow fourfold. Inspired by a personal experience with a denied medical bill for his daughter, he launched CrowdHealth in 2021 to bring affordability, transparency, and patient-centered care back into the hands of individuals and families. Under his leadership, CrowdHealth empowers members to fund each other’s medical needs, resulting in dramatically reduced healthcare costs and a renewed sense of community.
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Hi, and welcome to the X22 Report Spotlight.
Today, we have a new guest, Andy Skoonover.
Andy is the founder and CEO of CrowdHealth, a healthcare solution revolutionizing how Americans pay for medical care by replacing traditional insurance with a community-funded model.
Andy previously served as CEO of VRI, a healthcare technology company.
He helped grow fourfold.
Inspired by a personal experience with a denied medical bill for his daughter, he launched CrowdHealth in 2021 to bring affordability, transparency, and patient-centered care back into the hands of individuals and families.
Under his leadership, CrowdHealth empowers members to fund each other's medical needs, resulting in dramatically reduced healthcare costs and a renewed sense of community.
I am very happy and honored to have Andy on the X22 Report Spotlight.
Andy, welcome to the spotlight.
Thanks for having me.
Excited to be here.
Hey, thanks for being here.
And I know I just mentioned a brief part of what you did to start CrowdHealth and why you decided to do that.
I mean, what did you experience when your daughter was sick and you were, you know, you were denied the medical bill?
And like, what were you thinking?
Like, what did you decide, like, okay, this is it?
I'm done here.
Yeah.
You know, yeah, as you mentioned, this is my second company.
I sold my first one, couldn't do the private equity thing.
So I left that organization.
And as such, I didn't have health insurance.
Most of us get health insurance through our employers.
I didn't have an employer anymore.
So I went to what I thought was my only option was the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare plan.
And I was paying 11 or 1,200 bucks a month for me, my wife, and my two kiddos.
And I kind of joke, it worked until I had to use it.
My little one was one at the time and was having a recurring ear infection.
So we went to the pediatrician who said she has a hole in her ear that was validated by a trip to the ear, nose, and throat doctor.
And he was like, hey, you know, it's not a big deal, but we have to get this done soon so she doesn't have long-term hearing loss.
And in essence, what was going on is she was getting this fluid built up in her ear and it was popping her eardrums.
And so that was clearly very painful and made for a hell of a night's sleep for the rest of us.
And so we went in, networked, did everything we were supposed to do, got these tubes in her ears as a 15-minute procedure.
And then I got the bill from the facility a few weeks later.
And it was fifth, or yeah, it was $8,000, excuse me, for this 15-minute procedure.
And I was just like, holy crap, you know, $8,000 for 15 minutes.
This is ridiculous.
But this is what health insurance is for.
You know, we were at the end of the year.
We had made it most of the way through our deductible already.
And, you know, so I thought it was going to be taken care of.
I got a note via snail mail, funny enough, from my health insurance company a few weeks after that saying it was medically unnecessary.
And so they weren't going to pay for it.
I was like, wait, hold on a second.
She's got a hole in her eardrum.
And you're telling me this is not medically necessary.
She was sleeping through the night.
She stopped.
She had stopped screaming in pain.
And so I went through an appeals process.
And at the end of the appeals process, there was actually two sets of appeals processes.
They're like, yep, medically unnecessary.
We're not going to pay for it.
And it was at that point where I was like, screw this.
You know, if you're not going to pay my bills, I'm not going to pay your bills.
So I quit.
So I, in essence, became uninsured.
I went back to my wife and I said, honey, we're uninsured.
And we're going to figure out how to navigate this system without insurance because clearly insurance is not doing what they need to do for our family.
And as I was doing, doing work on this, I realized that, you know, I was not the exception.
I was actually the rule.
One out of every five healthcare bills through the Affordable Care Act are denied.
And that was leading about 200,000 families every year who have health insurance to go bankrupt due to a medical event.
So these are people they have health insurance and they're still going bankrupt due to a medical event because of these really high deductibles and these denied claims.
And so it's at that point where I was realized that I never thought I was going to go back into healthcare.
It's a brutal industry, as you can probably imagine, very regulated.
I wasn't going to do it again, but I just felt called to go and create something that is a true alternative to health insurance.
So give people freedom from the tyranny of the medical industrial complex.
So that's the quick story of how I got into this.
I think people are starting to realize, especially when Obamacare came into existence.
I mean, it was sold to us like this is going to be incredible.
You know, everything's going to be covered.
Premiums are going to be very low.
And what happened was people started to realize that this wasn't true.
First of all, if you didn't take Obamacare, you were penalized for not taking it.
So you had to pay a tax because you didn't do what the government wanted you to do, which is absolutely unbelievable.
But I think what people really saw was that Obamacare, the premiums kept going up and up and up.
And one thing that I find that for me personally, which I found very difficult is as the premiums went up, the payments and the care that you got went down.
And I think this is what a lot of people are starting to realize right now is that they're not just paying a lot because I think what people have done with their health insurance is that now people are just using it for a catastrophic period of time.
Like if I have to go into the hospital or I get cancer or something like that.
So most of the people, I don't know if you're finding, if you're seeing this too, most of the people have very high deductibles right now.
So they might be paying $1,200 or $1,500 a month, but their deductible is $5,000.
They never meet their deductible.
So they're paying a lot, but insurance is not covering anything.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, I went just because I was curious what my family of four would be this year for the Affordable Care Act.
And it was $1,400 a month and it was a $16,000 or $18,000 deductible, depending on what plan I chose.
And so in essence, you know, I'm out over $30,000 before, you know, the health insurance plan pays a dime.
And that just doesn't make any sense for me and my family.
I would prefer to go it alone at that point.
And I think a lot more people are at this in this situation now where they're saying, screw this.
I'm not paying all these premiums and this high deductible.
I'm just going to go it alone.
And in essence, what happens then is, and I think a part of what we're going to see here over the next five years is that that's going to turn insurance into a death spiral.
You get all the people who are healthy, who don't feel like they need health insurance to pull out of the health insurance market, which is going to massively raise rates for the sick people who are in the health insurance market.
And that's what's going to lead to the death spiral, I believe, of health insurance.
And ultimately, it's going to lead to one of two things.
It depends upon probably the administration who's in power, but it's going to lead to either Medicare for all, which I think is atrocious.
And I can kind of talk a little bit about the situations in which we're encountering that show that the socialized medicine doesn't work, or it's going to lead to a much better kind of privatization or a much more crowd health-like model.
And so, of course, we hope it's the latter and not the former.
So let's just talk about the socialized medicine because that's what people usually bring up.
You know, oh, look, Canada and all the European, they have socialized medicine.
Look how great it is.
I mean, what have you seen with socialized medicine?
Yeah, well, we're dealing with a situation, you know, right now that is making its way through social media, but we're actively involved where a woman who has a pretty serious thyroid condition and needs surgery.
She's in tremendous pain, doesn't have a specialist in her area, in her territory, to be able to do the surgery that is required of her.
And therefore, they, what they call is an inter-territory specialist referral.
And so, and, and, and the problem with that is that there's no specialist in her territory that can actually refer her to another territory so that she can actually go get this surgery.
And so she's stuck.
And so we're, we're actually helping her figure out a way to come to the United States to get this surgery done because she, you know, literally can't get it done in Canada.
And so that's ultimately what socialized medicine is going to lead to.
I think you have a decision.
You can, you can, you know, you have three kind of legs of the stool.
You have quality, you have price, and you have speed.
And, you know, Canada has decided they wanted price with the, you know, speed and quality being the things that they cannot, you know, solve.
With the United States, we've chosen quality and speed, but we're paying the price for that.
And so, you know, those are the gives and takes of these two different systems.
And I would argue we've got the best doctors in the world.
It's just under a system that is absolutely terrible.
So, you know, during COVID, I think you probably have seen online where these people had to wait, you know, 12 or 18 months to get, you know, even x-rays.
There was an example of somebody who had broken their leg, couldn't get an x-ray for over a year.
The leg had healed incorrectly.
And so they had to rebreak the leg to actually solve it because the guy couldn't get an x-ray, you know, when he needed to.
And so you're going to have wait times when anything is free.
When you're buying groceries with somebody else's credit card, that ultimately leads to very long lines and overutilization of lots of services and therefore a scarcity in the doctors and the medical facilities who can take care of you.
So I do not think socialized medicine is the right way to go, obviously, but we're seeing it real time.
As we speak, had this conversation with this woman this morning about how she can't even get medical care for a debilitating condition because of her socialized medicine.
And everybody thinks it's like, oh, well, it's free.
It's great.
It's free in Canada.
Well, it's not free.
You're paying with it through your taxes.
So this is not free.
It's just masked.
The costs of these things are masked by the government, in this case, the Canadian government.
And, you know, as a result of that, you're getting much, much worse care than you would in other first world countries.
So what do you think in the United States?
What do you think?
I guess I have to use the word term messed up the entire healthcare industry with insurance.
I mean, what do you think is the leading cause of all the problems that we have?
Yeah.
Well, people look at healthcare and they kind of don't even want to discuss it because they think it's so complex.
And I've kind of say it's not that hard to understand, actually.
If you understand the incentives, the underlying economics of our healthcare system.
And it's like this: the sellers of healthcare, these big hospital systems, they clearly want the price to go up.
They're profit-maximizing organizations, even if they're nonprofit, they're trying to maximize profit.
So they want the price to go up.
The buyers of healthcare, and very few people really understand this.
The buyers of healthcare actually want the prices to go up too.
The buyers of healthcare are health insurance companies.
And so why is that?
Well, under the incredible wisdom of people in DC during the Affordable Care Act, which was enacted back in 2010, what they did is they maximized the amount of profit that health insurance plans could make.
So if you have $1,000 of premium, you can only make $150 or $200, depending upon what type of plan, of that premium.
And so what do you do if you want to take your profit from $150 and grow it by 10% to $165?
Well, your premiums have to go from $1,000 to $1,100.
And so these insurance plans actually want to see the price of health care go up over time.
Because if you think through the inverse of that, what happens if your premium goes from $1,000 to $900, goes down 10%?
Well, the health plan's profit now goes from $150 to $135.
They don't want that to happen.
So you have the buyer of healthcare, health insurance companies, and you have the seller of healthcare, these big hospital systems, both wanting the price to go up.
And so, you know, it doesn't take a PhD in economics to understand if the buyer and the seller of a service want the price to go up, the price is going to go up.
And so that's why we're paying two to three times as much as other kind of first world countries for the exact same procedures.
You know, I think there, you know, I don't know whether it was five or six years ago, you know, William and Kate, Prince William and Kate got a, their daughter was born in the top hospital in London, and the price was $9,000.
This is downtown London, one of the most expensive cities on the planet.
And they got their birth done for $9,000.
In the United States, the average is between $15,000 and $18,000.
And these are for not great places to go and get your baby born.
And so it's twice as expensive.
And so that just does not make any sense why it would be twice as much in the United States, whether you're in Topeka, you know, or you're in New York City.
And so that's one of the problems that we have is all the incentives within our system is to drive up prices, and there's no market forces that are pushing those prices down.
So that's the issue we have in healthcare.
And the other thing I think people also wonder about, I mean, I do, is if you have an insurance company, they get a different rate than if you pay, let's say, cash.
So if you go into a hospital, you go into a doctor and you say, okay, I have my health insurance.
You have two different amounts.
It makes no sense.
I mean, can you imagine going into like, you know, the supermarket or going into any other store saying, okay, here's this amount and this amount.
How do you, how would you like to pay?
I mean, the whole medical industry doesn't even make sense.
Yeah.
I mean, we had a situation.
Oh, I had a personal situation about a year and a half ago.
I was having some chest pains.
And so I went into the cardiologist and he's like, you know, you should get a stress echo test.
I was like, great.
How much is that going to be?
He's like, well, how are you paying?
I'm paying in cash.
He's like, great.
It's going to be, I think he said 225 bucks, something like that.
I'm like, okay, I'll go do it.
And I put this story on X and somebody reached out to me.
He's like, I got that exact same test through health insurance and I paid $5,000 for it.
Wow.
So the difference in that situation, same test, $5,000 with insurance, $225 with cash pay.
And so that is an egregious example, but we're seeing this.
You know, we've, we've processed 30,000 bills through crowd health and we're seeing this on every single bill that if you pay in cash, you are going to get a significantly lower price than through insurance.
And so then the question is, why?
Why is this happening?
Well, there was a study that came out, I think, nine months ago, maybe it was a year ago, that doctors are spending almost two days a week fighting with health insurance plans, doing the administrative work of just to get paid.
So, you know, imagine you're out of your job and you have to fight your employer two days a week just to get paid.
Well, if they're fighting your insurance plans, what are they not doing?
They're not able to see patients.
They're not able to generate revenue.
And so if you go and you pay cash, which is a credit with a credit card, you're getting paid right away.
They have none of that administrative bureaucratic overhead.
And, you know, they don't have to wait to get their payments for three or six months.
And so they love the fact that you're coming in and paying them directly.
And so they don't have to go through the hassle of health insurance.
And as a result of that, they're willing to give you much, much better rates.
And we're seeing this over and over and over again.
And in fact, I know we'll get into crowd health later, but our crowd health members, and we're up to about 20,000 folks now, are getting prices that are 50% of what health insurance plans pay just by paying at the point of care, as opposed to forcing these doctors and these facilities to go and bill health insurance.
You mentioned crowd health.
Trump right now is suggesting that instead of having all these subsidies go to the insurance companies, why don't we just give the money to the people?
Now, the people then will be able to decide what insurance company they want to go to, or maybe they don't want to use an insurance company.
I mean, I don't know how it's going to work.
Like if you get to keep the money and then use it when you need it, or you have to use it in a certain period of time to get an insurance company or use it in a different area.
Now, when I was looking for health insurance, I was looking at crowd health, not specifically crowd health, but something like it, saying, you know, something, does this work?
Like, how does it work?
And it kind of confused me a little bit of what it is and what it does.
And since I have you on here, this will be a great opportunity for you to tell everyone.
So how it works.
So let's say Trump, you know, gets the money and it's not given to the insurance company.
And everyone's going to receive, I don't know how much, it doesn't really matter, but they're going to receive money and they say, okay, should I go with a health insurance company?
Because if I go there, then I have to stay with in the network.
I have deductibles.
I have all this stuff.
Or should I use something else or just keep the money?
So, let's say people decide, you know what, I would like to look into crowd health.
I would like to see how this works.
So, how does it work?
Yeah.
So, you know, as I mentioned, we've got about 20,000 people in our community right now.
And, you know, ultimately, what we're trying to do is create a platform that enables people to pay directly and therefore get those direct pay rates for both small and very large bills.
And so we've set up this peer-to-peer funding process where if I have a large health event, let's just say I go to the ER and it's $20,000.
I will get those bills, you know, a month or two months after I get out of the ER.
I get those bills.
I upload them to CrowdHealth.
We then have a negotiations team who will negotiate directly with the hospital on your behalf.
We'll get that bill cut down.
And 100% of the time, we've gotten these bills cut down significantly.
So let's just say it goes from 20,000 to 10,000.
What I then do is I'm going to pay the first $500 of that, but the remaining $9,500 is going to go to the community.
So we will ask 95 people in the community for, let's just say, $100 for either math.
They can say yes or no.
And if they say yes, then $100 goes from their account to my account.
And if they say no, then we'll just ask the next person on the list.
So ultimately, I'll have my $500 plus the $9,500.
So $10,000 total to go and pay that bill directly to the hospital.
Then the question is like, well, why would somebody give to Andy?
You don't know me.
You know, I went to the ER for something that was pretty, you know, not a heart tugger.
And so this is not like your go fund me type of experience.
They give to me, knowing that when they have a medical event and they submit those bills to the community, what we do is we tell them whether or not that person gave to others when asked.
So you can say no, but just know that when you say that, when you submit bills to the community, the community will know that you've denied other people in the community.
And so we've got this kind of accountability or reciprocity that drives this.
And again, we've done this for almost 30,000 bills over the last, you know, four and a half years.
And it's, it's worked, you know, beautifully.
And so that's ultimately how we work.
But instead of having to go through a health insurance plan, you've got this group of people who have said, hey, I'll help if something comes up.
And we've done this for lots of bills and they're everything from pediatric visits that we've had dozens of cancer cases.
We've got preemie twins right now that are about to go into the NICU.
And so, you know, we've had a lot of very, very large bills that have gotten paid through this, but you're getting the direct pay rate as opposed to the insurance rate.
And that is the main differentiator between CrowdHealth and your health insurance company.
You're enable, we're enabling you to pay directly and therefore get the absolute best price.
And as a result of that, it's way less than your health insurance.
I mentioned earlier, I went to the Affordable Care Act.
It was $1,400 plus a $16,000 or $18,000 deductible.
CrowdHealth, my family is paying $600 a month, and I'm just paying the first $500 of any health event.
So we're saving $10,000 a year by going with CrowdHealth versus your typical health insurance.
So in a quick two minutes, that's how it works.
But I'm happy to kind of fill in any of the mechanics if I left some things out there.
So what happens if there's like a catastrophic thing that you have cancer and there's a lot of treatments?
I mean, that's, I mean, for the younger people, no, they don't think that way.
For older people, they're like, okay, what happens if I have a problem with my liver or a kidney problem where I have cancer or I fall and I need to be, I guess, rehabilitated?
How do you handle that?
Yeah, I mean, I think that's where we really excel.
In fact, you know, we just released a video on our social media last week about this guy, Travis, who had stage four melanoma.
They had, as he said, I think they put him on the, what are they, the escalator to the grave or something like that, or something like that.
They're like, you know, they basically are like, hey, we're going to stick you into palliative care because, you know, we think you're, you know, on your deathbed.
You're on your way.
There's no cure for this.
Well, you know, what he said in his video is with crowd health, everything happens much, much faster.
So you don't have to go through the bureaucracy of health insurance plans and getting all these pre-authorizations and all these limitations.
What he was saying is, my doctors can actually treat me the way he was trained as opposed to the way the health insurance plan wanted to treat me.
And as a result of that, he is, you know, fortunately cancer-free.
And so, you know, these were $100,000 treatments.
He had to get them every, you know, I think it was like two or three weeks.
And we were able to negotiate those treatments down and get them paid by the community.
And so that's one of the really bad cases.
We've had colon cancers and breast cancers.
We had a woman with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma where her medication for that condition was $40,000 a month.
We negotiated directly with the pharmaceutical company.
We ripped out the PBM, all the middlemen in those transactions, and got it for $2,500 a month.
So that's the impact that you can have with a crowd health on your side as an ally to help you find these medications, to find these surgeries, to find these treatments at a much, much lower price as a result of paying them directly as opposed to going through all the middlemen who all take their cut of the action along the way.
So you rip out the bureaucracy and the administrative layer, which is 30 or 40% of healthcare costs, and you're going to see prices that are much, much better than health insurance prices.
Do you, I mean, do you have like the insurance companies like in network, out of network, or can you just go to any doctor that you want that you feel is the best doctor?
Yeah, no, we don't have any networks.
So you can go to whatever doctor that you want.
You know, all we ask is if you go and get one of these really big procedures, you let us find a high quality doc at a fair price.
Or if you really love your doc, let us negotiate with your doctor before you go in.
So we can help with that.
We don't ask you to negotiate or find docs or anything like that.
You can allow us to do it.
And the cool part of this too is, you know, when you join crowd health, you actually have an individual person, a care advocate that's assigned to you.
So it's your personal care advocate.
You can text, you can call, you can email.
And anytime you have something big, you just reach out to them and say, help, you know, help me navigate this complex healthcare system.
And that person will walk you through it.
I know when I went and was going through the thing with my daughter, I remember calling the insurance plan.
I was on hold for 20 or 30 minutes.
I was transferred to somebody in a different country.
They couldn't help me.
They transferred me to somebody else.
I waited for another 20 or 30 minutes.
And it was an actual debacle.
And so we changed that.
So you actually have one person internally who's responsible and is held accountable for your really good care.
And we just think that that results in much better care.
And so we've got a database now of 2 million cash prices across the country.
We've generated those from our existing members who are going to cash pay prices.
And if you go to a great orthopedic surgeon in Wichita, then we'll put that into our database.
Now, anybody else in Wichita or the surrounding area who now needs a great orthopedic surgeon, we've got a great orthopedic surgeon.
We know it's a fair price.
We know that this person who went there has a great experience and had great outcomes.
And so that database is growing exponentially.
And we provide that database to our members so that they have access to that.
So that's not something the health plans will do.
And in many cases, they're not allowed to do.
So the person that you get, you keep that person.
It's not like every time you call it, you get another person on the phone.
Same person.
So you know that person by name, you know who that is.
And oftentimes they know you by name.
And so you get to know them.
They get to know you.
They get to know your family.
And in fact, I'll just tell you a quick story.
We had a family in Colorado where the little guy was out on his on a walk or a hike with his dad, fell, hit a rock and gashed his face.
You know, he went to the hospital and got that taken care of.
He's all stitched up.
And so we called them.
His care advocate called the family and talked to the mom and said, how's the little guy doing?
He's like, well, physically, he's fine.
He's all patched up.
Everything worked out.
His bills were fully funded.
But emotionally, he is really having a hard time because he's afraid to go on a hike with him with his dad.
And that's like what they did.
Him and his dad went on hikes together.
They're in Colorado.
That's just what they do.
And so our care advocate actually sent him a little climbing kit for his living room so he could start climbing again.
And so his mom called us back weeping, saying, you won't believe it.
Like the little guy's back with his dad, you know, going on hikes.
And so we, you know, we do these kind of extraordinary things to help people get back to where they need to be.
And that care advocate is doing that because one, we give them the capacity to do things like that.
But this care advocate got to know that family through this ordeal that they were going through.
And so it's a much more personalized touch than your typical health insurance who sends you to call centers.
So in the very beginning, you talked about your daughter and how the insurance said, you know, this wasn't a necessary procedure.
You guys don't do that, right?
I mean, you don't say, hey, by the way, I know you got that procedure, but we find that you shouldn't have it.
We're only going to pay you, you know, 100 bucks.
Yeah, there's, we don't do any medical necessity evaluations.
This is between, you know, you and your doctor.
And I would say the only time that we push back on some of these things is if you're going to a quack doc who wants to give you pixie dust to, you know, solve your issues.
And there are a lot of them out there.
And so we do have some filter for that.
But no, we don't have any kind of medical necessity or anything like that.
We've never said no to a bill because of medical necessity.
So you're letting doctors be doctors.
I mean, the doctor knows the patient the best.
This is what I always found.
I go to the doctor and the insurance company is trying to tell me or tell the doctor how to be a doctor when they've never examined me.
They don't know anything about my health.
I mean, yes, they see paper, they see data, but they know nothing about me.
And they're not allowing the doctor to be a doctor.
That's a problem.
I think a lot of people have that complaint.
For sure.
And what I say is you work for whoever pays you.
And ultimately, the doctor is getting paid by the insurance company.
So they work for the insurance company.
They don't work for you.
And so what we enable people to do is get rid of the insurance company and the government and your employer and all those intermediaries between you and your doctor.
And it's like, now, Doc, I'm paying you.
I'm now the customer.
So we do what's best for me, not what's best for the insurance company.
And so I think that the care plans that are being developed as a result of that renewal of the doctor-patient relationship is resulting in better care because you don't have somebody at an insurance company, as you said, who's never met you, who doesn't know you, oftentimes is not even in that specialty, making decisions about your care is now between you and your doctor, which I think is really special.
Yeah.
Is this only for individuals or is this for businesses?
Yeah, right now we're only doing individuals.
You know, with businesses, the Department of Labor gets involved if you do anything healthcare related with business.
I don't really want to deal with the Department of Labor.
And so, you know, and I honestly, I've got, and maybe I need to get over it.
I just got, I have this moral issue with employers being involved in my healthcare.
Yeah.
You know, this is a relic of World War II.
You know, we can go in the history if you want, but it's, it was started after World War II and has been codified over the last 30 years that the employers are now the primary source of your healthcare.
I just think that's wrong.
In reality, what Trump should do is he should bifurcate employers and health insurance.
Excuse me.
Let people, the employers pay their people more because they're no longer having to pay for health insurance.
Let those people then go to the market or go to crowd health or go to wherever they want.
Use those dollars in the way they want to use those dollars as opposed to the employers forcing it down your throat.
Because when you're with your employer, you have one option.
It's the option that the employer has chosen for you.
And there may be a couple of options within that health plan, but you're pretty much given one choice and you have to take it.
Whereas I want as many choices as I want, what's right for me and my family.
Because in essence, when the employer does it, you're basically trying to choose for the lowest common denominator within that company.
And I just don't think that's an effective or an efficient way of doing healthcare in our country.
And so I think Trump should bifurcate that.
Clearly, the left is not going to like that very much, but I think that's ultimately what needs to happen.
I agree with that.
And I think a lot of times with employers is that they include that in your salary.
Like, okay, we're going to pay you, I don't know, $50,000, but 5,000 of it is actually coming from health insurance.
So you're really not getting your true salary.
So I think that is a good idea, actually.
It's $7,000 or $8,000 for an individual.
I think it's $23,000 or $24,000 for a family.
And so imagine if you could just get that in your salary as opposed to your employer paying for it.
And if Trump would bifurcate that and then make a similar tax conversion on that so that you're actually getting 100% of that, then I think that's the best way to go.
Yeah, I do.
And I think once we stop giving all the money to the insurance companies, I think that's when healthcare really starts to come down because it's almost like universities.
When you give them subsidies, when you give them money, it drives the prices up.
I think it's the same thing with healthcare.
It's time to take back that control.
I think it's time to stop all this and bring things back to the way we're.
Plus, we should have a menu of prices.
I never understood the health insurance, the health industry where you go and you have no idea how much anything costs.
It makes no sense.
It's the only thing we buy right now that we have no idea how much it costs.
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
I mean, the person on the street couldn't tell you probably within $1,000 what a colonoscopy costs.
Probably, you know, couldn't tell you within $1,000 of what a mammogram costs.
And so, you know, these are things where, as I mentioned, we've got 2 million beta points now.
We provide those to our members.
I think in middle of 2026, we probably will provide them to the general public.
And so people need to understand what their healthcare costs.
You know, I think the problem, a part of the problem is that a lot of people just don't care.
You know, we have a system now where people don't care.
If you think about these deductibles, the things that are really moving the needle in healthcare are typically above the deductible.
And so if you have a chronic condition, which is 80% of our healthcare spend, you're going to get above that deductible.
So you don't really care what the prices are.
If you're going to the ER, you clearly don't care what the price is because you just want to get to the ER and get your problem solved.
If you have a large surgery of any kind, it's probably going to be above your deductible.
And so you don't care.
And so the problem with our system right now is people don't care what the prices are.
And so if these, if people cared, then more people would provide the price.
Within our system, the people do care what the price is because you have this community and we actually have a system internally that says, listen, a colonoscopy in Austin, Texas should be $1,200.
And so if you want to go and pay for a $4,000 colonoscopy, then we're going to let the people in the community know that when you submit that bill to them.
And so there's got to be some kind of skin in the game so that you treat other people's money like it's your money.
And if you can't do that, then we're just going to get into this situation in which, like I said, you're going to buy, you know, you're going to go to the shopping mall with somebody else's credit card.
You're going to, you're not going to care what the prices are and you're going to overutilize.
And so that's one of the problems that we're trying to solve through our system.
And I mean, I think everything is about to change.
And I think you're going to see a lot more people taking back the power, just like with your crowd health, where you're showing people, this is how much it is.
You don't have to spend all this.
You don't have to continually pay for the premiums the way you're paying it with insurance companies.
I think with the start of him saying, take, you know, give the money back to the people.
I think this is just the beginning phases of it all.
And I think people are going to benefit from it all.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be incrementally better.
But I don't think it's going to move the needle the way that the move the needle needs to be moved.
And so I think we're going to still see price inflation and market-based forces are still not going to be there in a huge way.
And in fact, what's probably going to happen is the healthy people, again, are just going to drop out and say, hey, I've got all this money now.
I'm just going to use this money to pay for my medical expenses and going to leave all the sick people in the system.
And that's, you know, over the long, long term is going to take us down a path where the divide is going to be a crowd health-like model or a Medicare for all model.
And I'm afraid, you know, given all kind of the trends in DC, the Medicare for all model is going to be the one that is ultimately passed.
And so we're trying really, really hard to make it make people in DC know.
I've had lots of conversations with senators and congressmen about our model.
They all love it.
But when push comes to shove, they're not willing to go to their constituents and say, hey, more of you should be uninsured.
That's just not a very popular thing to say.
But in reality, more of us should be uninsured.
We've got actually a t-shirt.
I should have worn it today that says uninsured on the front.
So we are unapologetically uninsured because when you're uninsured, you care about the price.
When you care about the price, prices fall.
And if prices fall, then we can offer a service that is significantly less than what health insurance is because we're ripping out all that intermediary administrative bureaucratic BS and people care about the price.
So I think that's ultimately the solution.
Well, I think they kind of brainwashed us all into thinking that if you don't have insurance, you're screwed.
And that's not true whatsoever.
And I think it's time to break all that.
So if people were interested in your crowd health, where should they go to inquire about it?
Yeah, joincrowdhealth.com.
You know, the signup process is super simple.
It'll take you five or 10 minutes.
You can start whenever you want.
You can end whenever you want.
So we don't have these silly open enrollment situations.
So we'd love people to come and check us out.
Or you can check us out and join CrowdHealth on any of our social media platforms to learn more about what we're up to.
Great.
I'll put all the links at the bottom of the video.
Andy, thank you very much for being on the X22 Report Spotlight.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you.
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