Whatever Podcast - Andrew Wilson vs. Woke Male Feminist Hater

May 16, 2025 - Whatever Podcast

05:42:25

Andrew Wilson vs. Woke Male Feminist Hater | Whatever Debates #17

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	Welcome to a debate edition of the whatever podcast coming to you live from Santa Barbara, California.
	I'm your host and moderator, Brian Atlas.
	A few quick announcements before the show begins.
	This podcast is viewer supported, heavy YouTube demonetization.
	So please consider donating through Streamlabs instead of soup chatting as YouTube takes a brutal 30% cut.
	That's streamlabs.com slash whatever.
	Link for that is in the description.
	We prioritize messages that are made via Streamlabs to read a message is going to be $99 and up for today's stream.
	We're going to read those in batches at various breaks throughout the debate.
	There will be no instant TTS.
	We're also live on Twitch right now.
	Pull up another tab, go to twitch.tv slash whatever, and you can drop us a follow on the Prime sub if you have one.
	Without further ado, we have a few topics and prompts for today.
	You will each have a five-minute opening statement where you will introduce yourself as you like.
	And then the rest of the show will be open conversation with some prompt changes and breaks for messages from the audience.
	And then you will each have a five-minute closing statement.
	And you're going to open, so go ahead.
	My name is Rafael Gomez.
	I'm the host of Women on Men, where I interview women about men and dating.
	And here's my opening statement.
	I'm not here to fight men.
	I'm here to fight for them.
	Because the red pill is presented as medicine, but it's actually a poison.
	And peer-reviewed research proves it.
	Red pill and menosphere content preys on angry, rejected men and turns their pain into blame.
	It tells them women are the enemy, that dating is a war, and they're losing.
	That feminism ruined everything.
	The very people they want to date become their adversaries.
	And it's easier to buy into that story than to look inward.
	But the science is clear.
	Studies consistently show that red pill communities promote hostile sexism, dehumanize women, and radicalize male pain into misogyny.
	And to top it off, it's not helping them date either.
	Men who endorse red pill beliefs report higher levels of loneliness, romantic dissatisfaction, and psychological distress.
	But the consequences are real and deadly.
	Just a short drive from this studio, Elliot Roger murders six people at UC Santa Barbara with the manifesto filled with hatred for women.
	Don't do that.
	Don't do what?
	Don't do the manifesto.
	Don't do that for YouTube purposes.
	Like, just skip that part.
	Or maybe call it killing.
	I already made the point.
	Go ahead, Dan.
	Okay.
	And he became a martyr for red pill communities, a symbol of what happens when male pain festers into violence.
	For all the lectures about female nature and alpha dominance, red pill men aren't forming real relationships.
	They're staying single, bitter, and stuck.
	The more they consume this content, the worse their life gets.
	Not because women changed, but because they did.
	In the end, it leaves them lonely, angry, and blaming everyone but the ideology that failed them.
	Just this week, Andrew called red pill creators degenerates for pushing casual sex, discouraging marriage, and obsessing over status.
	Yet here he is today defending that same ecosystem.
	He also said that the divide between men and women is a good thing because he believes women will cave first.
	Andrew wants to keep that division wide because it serves his personal crusade to eradicate feminism, even if it means sacrificing the well-being of the very men he claims to protect.
	That's my opening statement.
	Okay, so I'll respond.
	A few things.
	By the way, my name is Andrew Wilson, the host of the Crucible.
	Welcome to, or well, actually, thank you guys for having me, especially the whatever podcast chat.
	Always nice to be back with you guys.
	And of course, the Crucible crew.
	Thank my opponent for coming out as well for this.
	So the first thing is you mentioned that the red pill is poison and women are enemies, adversaries.
	I think that you're making a very classic mistake that many people make, which is that you're associating content creators and their views with what the red pill is.
	And so maybe we can get in what you think the red pill actually is.
	So you say that the red pill is making men stay single and stay miserable, et cetera, et cetera.
	We can get into that too.
	I actually didn't say that red pillars were degenerates.
	And I'm guessing that you're referencing the Pearl Davis debate.
	No, you said this on your channel.
	You were talking to a gentleman on your own channel.
	I can't remember.
	He was talking on an iPad.
	You didn't like the sound.
	It was something you posted, I think, Tuesday.
	Okay, yeah, yeah.
	So there are a lot of degenerates who are red pillars, but I wouldn't make the claim that the red pill to me is just a descriptive packet.
	And you say that Andrew wants feminism to be destroyed at the expense of men.
	It's the opposite.
	I want feminism to be destroyed because I think that that protects and helps and assists men.
	So I'm talking about a gender divide.
	What I'm disassociating is that there needs to be, when I say gender divide, women in the role of female gender roles and men in the role of male gender roles.
	So that's the divide I'm looking at.
	Now, I'm not looking at a divide of like men and women not being close to each other.
	I'm looking at the divide of I don't want sameness when it comes to gender roles because that's really bad and it does not suit society very well.
	So kind of with that, I'm happy to just kind of dive into whatever you want here.
	Sure.
	So I know you say the red pill is kind of this ideology, but red pill whatever word you used.
	It's a package.
	It's a data packet.
	I've heard you say that.
	I understand.
	But the only way that message is really disseminated is often through these big content creators.
	Most of the people come across a red pill from things like Fresh and Fit, Andrew Tate, this channel.
	That's how that packet is distributed.
	And there are prescriptive messages.
	How do they come across it?
	I don't know.
	The internet is the internet.
	The algorithm.
	Do you think they made it up?
	Do I think who made it up?
	That those red pill creators that you're talking about, do you think that they just made all that stuff up?
	No, I think there's too many similar messages for it to be made up.
	Yeah, so there's like sources for this stuff, right?
	Wherever they're sourcing it from, I'm not sure what they're disseminating.
	One such source would be a guy.
	His name is Rolo Tomasi.
	The godfather of the red pill.
	He's going to be pissed that I said that because it's like an ongoing meme.
	But he calls it a praxeology, right?
	So if it's praxeological from his perspective, he's saying there's no prescriptions here, right?
	It's not designed around prescriptors.
	It's designed around descriptors.
	So if you're going to criticize the red pill, you should probably start by criticizing the descriptors.
	But if you wanted to criticize individual content creators for their prescriptions, I think that that's fine.
	But that's not the red pill.
	The red pill is a data packet of descriptions which are trying to express and explain interpersonal sexual dynamics between men and women.
	I think the gentleman you mentioned, most people haven't heard of.
	I think most people have.
	I've heard of him.
	I think most of the people are getting their information from the millions of subscriptions to Fresh and Fit and whatever.
	Fresh and Fit, he goes on often.
	They have a very close friend.
	Myron Gaines, I'm sure, is much more popular than him.
	Yeah.
	Well, the thing is, is like, maybe, but Myron Gaines is not.
	Are you saying he's the red pill?
	I think he's one of them.
	Okay, so what, so what is, let's start with that.
	What is the red pill?
	I consider it content that claims to reveal the truth about women but promotes misogyny and male victimhood.
	Okay, so you think that the descriptors do that?
	I think the content creators that are prescribing what the red pill is.
	So it's not about content creators.
	Sure.
	You just think that so there's just content creators who you disagree with their message.
	The majority of the red pill content creators, I just disagree with their message.
	Well, okay, but okay, well, what's the majority?
	Like, how many do you think they're?
	The most popular of the bunch.
	The ones that have the most viewers, subscribers, or whatever.
	Okay, so who are these guys that you're talking about?
	Fresh and Fit is a big one.
	Andrew Tate is another one.
	And the whatever podcast is another one.
	Fresh Fit.
	Tate.
	And whatever.
	So here's an easy one.
	I guess let's start with whatever because I'm pretty familiar with the content here.
	So what is the message that's being put out there?
	There's a lot of misogynist messages that come out of this podcast.
	Well, let's start with what is misogyny?
	Misogyny is the hatred or dislike of women, the active dislike of women.
	Plural women.
	Yeah, correct.
	The entire journey.
	So not the active dislike of a woman.
	No, not typically.
	So it's just women.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So misogyny is the active hatred or dislike of women.
	You got it.
	All right.
	And Fresh and Fit is another big helper to that?
	Let's start with whatever.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So what is the misogyny or the dislike of women, which is promoted on this channel?
	It's presented as a dating podcast, but it's really not.
	The topics that typically come up on this podcast, what makes it not a dating podcast?
	I'm about to go into that.
	Oh, okay.
	Go ahead.
	A dating podcast should not discuss whether or not women should be submissive, whether women should vote.
	On Sunday, Sunday show, you ask women how many pumps after they tell you to stop.
	Is it grape?
	That's not a dating podcast.
	That's one of the craziest questions I've ever heard.
	You basically say divorce hurts men.
	Marriage is pointless.
	I don't know how that's helping your audience.
	I don't know how military conscription has anything to do with a dating podcast.
	I don't know how guests being shown a submissive ex-girlfriend and saying, would you bow to your husband?
	Would you bow to your husband?
	That's not a dating podcast.
	That is promoting hatred of women and misogyny as well.
	Female guests are pressured to reveal their body count and then mocked.
	If they don't reveal, they're interrogated until they reveal.
	Women with OnlyFans are moralized and told to quit.
	Male promiscuity is excused and celebrated.
	Women are asked about their peak looks, age, and questioned incessantly.
	Segments like Man Bear versus Woods mock women's very real fears about male violence, even though statistical realities are ignored and dismissed as irrational.
	The Super Chat Roast, the guests love to shit on these women every chance they get.
	And on this show, feminism and women are blamed for most of the men's problems.
	Do you have a copy of that?
	I'd like to see it.
	The thing?
	Because you just shotgunned a bunch of points, and Andrew, might you want to have it one by one?
	I also have peer-reviewed studies if you want those too.
	Yeah, if you have any, especially if they have a meta-analysis, I'd like to see them.
	And just to be, before you give your response, Andrew, my understanding here for the debate was primarily going to be about feminism, not specific criticisms of the swamps were about manosphere and red pill.
	Yeah, so this is, I'm actually fine with this, right?
	So why it's not really a dating podcast?
	So whether women should be submissive, why I don't understand, why would that not be relational to dating?
	What does submission have to do with dating?
	Well, because dating is, especially on a dating show, you would be significantly talking about people's preferences when it came to the social experiences they're having with the opposite sex.
	You're not talking about your preferences.
	You're talking about their preferences?
	Because when you talk about submission, you're talking about from your worldview, women should be submissive.
	Okay, but from their worldview, they could also have maybe a counter to that why they shouldn't.
	Or also, a lot of them say, yes, they should.
	So the idea here for submission, especially, would be, I don't see how that's not dating related.
	I don't know how submission comes up on any sort of date.
	I don't know if you've ever been on a date.
	Well, if you're asking yourself, okay, so if I ask you, what type of woman do you want?
	And you go through the traits and you say I'd also like a submissive woman.
	Does that make sense to say as a trait?
	Sure, I don't know many people that would just offer that up as one of the first things they want in a woman, but maybe those are the people you hang out with.
	You said it was the first.
	If I'm asking what's your dynamic and one of the answers is a submissive woman, that comes up all the time for men in dating.
	Okay.
	In your circles, perhaps.
	I mean, no, just in what it, well, how many dating podcast sample sizes do you have here?
	I listen.
	I'm on a dating podcast.
	I made one.
	I listen to a lot.
	I listen to a lot of your shows.
	I listen to a lot of everything that's going to do.
	I don't understand.
	Any of the dating podcasts that come up when you ask men their preference, they've never once said, I would prefer to have a woman who's more submissive.
	The topic of submission only comes up on Red Pill podcasts.
	No, it doesn't only come up on Red Pill.
	Where else is it?
	It's been on Dr. Phil.
	It's been everywhere.
	Dr. Phil talks about submission every episode.
	Every episode?
	I didn't say every episode.
	Is he doing a dating podcast?
	Don't mention Dr. Phil's a dating show.
	Is he doing Dr. Phil?
	Where else shows mention?
	That's not a dating show.
	If you ask where else it's mentioned.
	As a dating show.
	That is not a dating show.
	Yeah, so in any case, any of the dating podcasts that I've seen is a very common answer to say if they want to submit a podcast.
	Name another dating podcast.
	And here's the other thing, to dive into this.
	Name another dating podcast.
	Here's the other thing to dive into this.
	Well, you got to name another dating podcast podcast.
	Okay, Fresh and Fit happens there always.
	Red Pill content.
	Exactly.
	As I said.
	Okay, so when you're talking about a dating podcast, what do you mean by that?
	Something a little less, I don't know, misogynistic, perhaps.
	What does that mean, though?
	I've already explained it to you and defined it.
	If any man has a dating podcast, is it Red Pill or a dude?
	I have a dating podcast and it's not misogynistic.
	I see.
	And let me ask you a question.
	What kind of questions do you ask on your dating podcast?
	I asked them, what are their priorities in a man?
	I asked them, do you have advice for men in a domestic picture?
	And how many men have you had on?
	Zero.
	It's called Women on Men.
	Oh, I see.
	So you're a misandrist?
	Absolutely not.
	Well, I don't understand.
	Why don't you want a man's opinion?
	Because I want to ask women specifically.
	Misandry involves hate, and I don't hate men.
	Oh, okay, I got it.
	So you only have on women.
	Correct.
	And you don't ask them when you ask them about preferences, right?
	Do they say that they want things like assertive men?
	No.
	Do they say that they want less assertive men?
	I give them a list of 10 traits and say rank these between your top three and your bottom three.
	Okay, so you're giving them the answers.
	I'm not giving them the answers.
	They take a lot of time to think about it.
	But you just said you gave them 10 traits.
	Yeah, that's not the answers.
	Those are options.
	Yeah, that's answers.
	There are options you can choose from.
	It's a multiple choice.
	That's not answers.
	Yes, it's answers.
	Okay, they're answers, Andrew.
	Yeah, you gave them 10 answers and say, choose from.
	And then they sort them.
	Yeah, but that doesn't mean that's an answer.
	You're making them choose from answers that you give them.
	So you're literally feeding them their answers and then they choose them.
	Yep.
	And they don't come and say, man, I wish you would have had this on the podcast.
	Well, how come why is it then?
	Well, how long have you been doing it?
	Can we get back to misogynistic podcasts?
	If it is the case, can we get back to misogynistic podcasts?
	If it is the case, that it is your criticism.
	Can we get back to misogynistic podcasts?
	If you're going to have criticisms for whatever, I'm going to have criticisms for your podcast.
	You haven't even listened to it, so don't talk about it.
	Do I need to?
	Pull it up and listen to it from you.
	Go ahead, pull it up on YouTube.
	I can listen to it from you.
	Go ahead and pull it up on YouTube.
	You have not watched my podcast, so don't sit here.
	We're not going to critique my podcast.
	Why not?
	Because you haven't even watched it.
	Let's watch it.
	Go ahead, pull it up.
	So if we pull it up, you have 45 minutes.
	45 minutes, 45 minutes, put on two times speed, and then we can critique my podcast.
	But until then, tell me about another non-misogynistic red pill podcast.
	Well, I don't think any of those are misogynistic podcasts.
	Yeah, of course not.
	You got to demonstrate that they actually hate these women.
	By their actions, by the things, everything that's happening right there.
	So let's go through some more of these.
	When Myron Gaines has a college table that says women deserve a list, you don't think that's a little misogynistic?
	Is that during his podcast?
	He is one of the red pill content creators.
	I thought we're talking about it.
	I had to be a podcast, dude.
	I thought it had to be a podcast.
	Can you have to be a podcast?
	You act like an adult.
	That is the most childish thing.
	I've ever seen him a whole lot.
	You gave me the criteria.
	The criteria is the content creators, including Myron Gaines.
	Yes, I've always said that.
	Nothing's changed in my life.
	Since we're talking about dating podcasts, the idea of dating.
	Correct.
	Is it also possible?
	There's just not that many?
	Yeah, there's not a lot of red pill podcasts.
	No, no, just dating podcasts.
	There's a ton of dating podcasts.
	Okay, name some.
	Mine.
	Name some other ones.
	There's a guy named Man We're in Trouble.
	There's Evie Edit.
	There's...
	Evie Edit's a dating podcast?
	Yeah, she talks about dating and men.
	Wait, they say that a dating podcast, though?
	Yes.
	This isn't a dating podcast.
	This isn't a dating podcast.
	So on Eevee Edit, they have every single time they come on, they have multitudes of people on with them and all they talk about.
	I don't necessarily say they have guests.
	I'm not talking about the format.
	I'm saying that's what the content that comes up is men and women.
	And this is not a dating podcast that we're currently on.
	So you're just talking about, for you, a dating podcast, just anybody who's talking about dating.
	This is not a dating podcast that we're currently on.
	Well, prove it.
	I just did.
	How?
	Let's go through more.
	You want me to read them?
	So here, why don't we do the first one?
	Whether women should be submissive.
	I don't.
	I don't understand.
	Again, how would that not?
	Yeah, actually, how would that not be a decent question to ask for dating?
	I don't get it.
	Do you ask that on your first dates?
	What?
	If a woman would be submissive?
	Yeah.
	No?
	Exactly, because it's not a dating question.
	Why would that, wait, hang on.
	Let's back up.
	Let's assume for a second that anything that I would ask a woman on the first date isn't something you would ask a woman on the first date.
	What does that prove?
	I'm saying the things you guys do.
	Do you think you're going to look better in 10 years?
	Do you think you're going to look better in 10 years?
	Is that something you ask on the date?
	What's your body count?
	Can you ask that on the first date?
	Can you answer my question?
	What's a body count on the first date?
	Before you start shooting.
	Yeah, you have different questions.
	Before you start running questions, you have different questions.
	I'll never answer one of yours if you never answer one of mine.
	Go ahead, Andrew.
	So here we go again.
	What does it actually prove?
	What does it prove that if I asked a whole sequence of different questions from you on my first date, what does that prove?
	That you're not asking these questions on your first date.
	Can you answer my question?
	I just did.
	What does it prove?
	It proves that you're not asking these questions.
	So it doesn't prove anything?
	It does prove it.
	What does it prove?
	That you're not asking these kinds of questions on your first date.
	What is that proving outside of that?
	It proves that these are more misogynistic questions.
	Hang on.
	Does it also prove that I don't ask any other questions other people would ask that you're not asking here?
	I have no idea if it proves that.
	It's just so stupid, dude.
	It proves nothing.
	What does it prove?
	What do those questions prove?
	Nothing.
	They don't prove anything.
	Okay.
	This is just a pure dating.
	Dating is about your preferences, anecdotes, experiences.
	It's about how many pumps after she says stop is grape.
	That's a dating podcast?
	Do you think that when people...
	Hold on, answer that question, Andrew.
	I'll answer it.
	I don't think you are.
	You have to stop talking.
	I can't answer it.
	So stop talking.
	Okay.
	And I'll answer it.
	Is it the case that when you have a half a dozen people who are sitting at a table and they're building a rapport with each other, that they crack jokes?
	You think that's a joke?
	Yeah.
	How many pumps after a woman says stop is it grape is a joke?
	Yeah.
	Who laughs at that?
	Lots of people.
	I think it's funny.
	I'm not surprised.
	I think it's fucking funny.
	I think you think it's funny.
	I'm sure you think it's funny.
	It is funny.
	But do you know why it's funny?
	What makes it funny?
	Because you're a little misogynistic.
	No, no, no.
	It's because a feminist on this program a few months ago.
	I remember I saw it.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So I don't know.
	So it's a callback to that.
	It's not a callback to that.
	Yeah, it's a callback to that.
	Because that was not about stopping.
	Yeah, it was about consent.
	Yeah, but that was about your wife sleeping and you banging her watch.
	It's about consent.
	If she says stop and you keep going, is that consent?
	Well, the idea there is how long after is are you violating consent?
	That's the idea of.
	Yeah, that's a dating podcast topic, right?
	Of course.
	No, yeah, of course.
	People talk about that all the time, right?
	Do you think that in the age, in this modern age, where intersexual and interpersonal dynamics between men and women are so fucked up and they are fucked up.
	And you're contributing.
	Right.
	Do you think that the idea when you have tons of people who are out there talking about consent, do you have feminist academics who are talking about if two people are drunk and they have sex, they're actually technically raping each other, graping each other, right?
	Do you really think that these are inappropriate questions to ask during a dating podcast in modernity?
	I absolutely believe it's inappropriate to say why.
	How many pumps after a woman says stop is it grape?
	Yeah, why?
	That is inappropriate.
	Why?
	Because it should just be stop.
	Tell me how many.
	I'm not going to answer that question.
	You're not going to answer it?
	No, because it's a stupid ass question.
	Well, I don't know.
	I think it's a fair question.
	Of course you do because you're massaging this thing.
	What's massaging this week about it?
	Because that is grape.
	You're talking about grape in such a lighthearted manner.
	How does that just answer the question?
	How does that prove I hate women?
	Dude, we can go down the list of things you've said.
	Go down the list.
	After your 5,000 debates.
	Go down the list.
	Do you like women at all?
	I love them.
	Oh, you love them.
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	You know how.
	It's so funny to talk about girls.
	You know how I know.
	It's so funny.
	Do you know how I like a laugh?
	The fact that you would laugh at a grape question shows that you don't like women.
	I laugh.
	Oh, hang on.
	Hang on.
	Are you saying I hate men because I laugh about prison grape?
	No.
	You don't hate women.
	I don't get it, though.
	That's a double standard.
	You don't hate men.
	You love men.
	You only care about men.
	So if I make light of a man getting graped, that's fine.
	You don't see it the same.
	And it's not.
	You don't see it the same.
	How do I see it?
	Because you see women as so much less than.
	Prove it.
	I'm looking for the demonstration, not the assertion.
	Just watch.
	Just watch it.
	Just watch the assertion.
	Just watch Andrew's video.
	Just watch Andrew's video.
	Just watch it.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah, don't prove a million watches.
	Yeah, no, I'm making it up.
	I'm making it up.
	So just tell me real quick, how can you affirm that I hate women because I might make light of a grape joke for women, but I don't hate men if I make light of a grape joke for men?
	I'm not sure.
	I know you're not sure because that makes no fucking sense.
	So moving on to the next one, as we go through this, whether women should vote.
	So in modernity, women's voting habits, right, have a lot to do with the modern state of society, don't they?
	Sure.
	And they have to do with the state of people who want maybe patriarchy or they want highly religious women who allow men to lead or women who will turn over their ability to vote to their own husband and say, you just tell me where to vote.
	You agree with all of that?
	Sure.
	Okay, so then why wouldn't it be pertinent to ask women what they think about women's voting patterns and voting habits?
	Because you talk about revoking the right for women to vote.
	So?
	So?
	It's just an easy conversation people have.
	Should women vote?
	That's just something that people talk about sitting around their dinner table, right?
	Okay, do you think that was an easy conversation when you were talking about whether or not it was okay for white women to vote to date black men?
	I think what was an easy conversation?
	That conversation.
	Sure.
	Pre-miscegenation was a pretty hard conversation, right?
	But do you think that it was pertinent to dating at the time?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	So then if that was pertinent to dating at the time and they were talking about all the reasons you should or shouldn't do this, and it's a political ideology.
	Yeah.
	On both sides, right?
	Why is it not appropriate for us to have a conversation about women's voting patterns when it comes to relationships?
	It's not women's voting patterns.
	It's should women vote.
	That's not about patterns.
	Yeah, it is.
	That is the question about women.
	Well, how would you determine if they should or shouldn't?
	I just think everyone should.
	Oh, you just think that?
	Yeah.
	Tell me why.
	I don't need to.
	You don't need to?
	No.
	Okay.
	So the thing is, is I'll just release you from this.
	I'll just let you skip out on giving me no justification for why everybody should be able to vote.
	I don't, I don't need to.
	But I want to know, I would like to know.
	You don't need one?
	I don't need a justification.
	I don't need a justification.
	I don't need a justification to ask a woman if she thinks other women should have the right to vote in order for me to judge whether or not she's a submissive woman or not.
	Sure, but that's not a dating topic.
	That's just you being political.
	If I want to judge if you're not a vote, that's just you being political.
	You guys push your conservative agenda on this channel, and that's what you do.
	Do you think that I want to live in it?
	Well, I do.
	Yeah, you do.
	And it's not my job.
	I know, because homie just sits back and chills.
	Brian's chilling.
	He's eating popcorn.
	Why are you asking these questions?
	Yeah, I mean, I literally have made it.
	It's a nice day.
	I've never made any qualms that I'm here to represent my worldview.
	I know, but it's a dating podcast.
	You're asking these crazy questions.
	They're not crazy.
	They're absolutely crazy.
	Should women vote is a crazy question in 2025.
	Can I also ask you this?
	Do you think that men and women get, and when they're in relationships, get into political arguments often?
	Sure.
	Constantly, right?
	I mean, theoretically, if you're dating somebody with the same values, you're not.
	If you marry a woman and she votes against your vote, would that create marital issues?
	Maybe, but I don't think you probably would have ever married that person to begin with because you don't have to.
	Probably not.
	You know why?
	Because you're not going to be afraid.
	Because you asked her what she thought about the right to vote and she said, I want women to have the right to vote.
	And so you didn't fucking marry her.
	You didn't date her because she doesn't align with you politically.
	Does that mean that you know people that do that?
	Do you know people that say, I won't marry this woman because she thinks women should?
	I don't marry an overly assertive woman who thinks that she's going to be politically dominant in my home.
	Of course.
	It has nothing to do about politically dominant.
	You said, if I ask a woman, do you think women should vote?
	And she says yes, I'm not going to date that person.
	And then, but hang on.
	But then you ask her why.
	No, I don't ask her why.
	I know, but if you were going to date her, you should.
	No, because I think women should vote.
	I know you think that.
	And you're not every man who lives.
	Wow.
	How many men don't think women should vote?
	I have no idea, but at least a significant amount is a significant amount.
	Yeah, I do.
	But give me a percentage.
	I have no idea.
	Throw it out.
	That was a smart guy.
	That would be impossible.
	Throw it out.
	You're a smart guy.
	You can assume you throw out a number.
	Throw out a percentage in your gut, in your heart of hearts, how many men don't want women to vote.
	I'll throw that out if you throw out how many do.
	Okay.
	Okay, you first.
	How many men want women to vote?
	I say at least 90%.
	Based on?
	Men, I know.
	So now based on anecdotes.
	Exactly.
	Just like I'm asking you to do.
	Yeah, that's why I wouldn't give you one.
	Yeah, because I don't deal in anecdotes.
	No, no, we don't deal in anecdotes at all.
	You deal in anecdotes all the time.
	No, I don't.
	Unless you're asking me about something anecdotal.
	Okay.
	So anyway, yeah, there's no reason.
	There's actually no good reason that you've given me yet for why it's not pertinent inside of a man's dating life if he wants a submissive woman why she wouldn't be politically aligned with his ideology.
	Okay.
	So just pointing that out.
	Sure.
	You actually still haven't given me a reason.
	Yeah.
	On Sunday's show, you asked, well, I didn't ask this, so I don't know anything about it.
	How many pumps after a woman says stop before it becomes grape?
	I didn't ask that.
	I know.
	But that's why this isn't a dating podcast.
	Because you made a joke.
	That's not a joke.
	Yeah, it's a callback joke.
	It's very clear to me that that's not clear because it's a totally different scenario.
	Okay.
	Even though.
	So you really don't think that that's about consent?
	I know what the joke was.
	I remember it was a joke.
	I thought it wasn't a joke.
	I thought it wasn't a joke.
	I'm talking about the callback.
	I'm saying this is not a joke.
	So what makes it not a joke?
	Because it's not funny.
	Oh, so you don't find it funny so much.
	Nobody found it funny.
	Nobody was laughing.
	Not a single person.
	So if I go back to that time stamp and I look at it, nobody's going to say anything.
	I'm going to pull it up now.
	Nobody's going to say anything.
	The only person that kind of truckled was Brian.
	So then it was a joke?
	No.
	Then why did Brian laugh?
	I'm not sure.
	Because he thought it was funny.
	Perhaps.
	If the joke teller thinks it's funny, that's a problem.
	Why?
	Because if no one else is laughing except the joke teller, that's a problem.
	That just means it's a bad joke, not that it's not a joke.
	Okay, it's so funny.
	Yeah, you're right.
	Yeah, but I mean, can people tell bad jokes?
	Sure.
	And nobody laughs.
	Yeah, bad jokes about.
	But if you tell the joke and then you laugh, do you think it was intended as a dating podcast?
	Yeah, do you think it was intended as a joke?
	No, I don't.
	So why did he laugh?
	I'm not sure.
	Yeah, that's very maybe out of awkward, maybe out of insecurity, maybe out of welcome.
	Yeah, people laugh in uncomfortable circumstances.
	You do it all the time.
	Yeah, but like, but when I asked you why, you said because he thought it was funny.
	Maybe it's insecurity.
	I have no idea.
	Maybe it's way to change your answer, bro.
	Oh, yeah.
	I could change my answer to new information.
	How about that?
	It's your information.
	How's it new?
	The next one is: divorce hurts men.
	Marriage is pointless.
	That's literally the opposite of my message.
	No, well, he's saying that's one of the reasons how the show is not a dating podcast.
	You're actually talking about divorce.
	You're actively promoting people.
	You're actively saying, why should men get married?
	That's a common talk in point of view.
	No, I usually ask why secular men should.
	Why should anybody get married?
	Well, this is super important.
	So, this, I don't even think you would argue that this isn't dating related.
	So, the span and spectrum between religious and the religious who want to get married in their preferences and secularists who want to get married in their preferences is like fucking night and day.
	And so, I always draw this parallel out when I ask religious people why do you want to get married, right?
	Especially religious women.
	And then you hear this answer, right?
	You know, I want to fulfill my obligations to God, or I want to, you know, live a certain lifestyle, which is based on my ethical system.
	That's why I want to get married.
	You ask secularist women why you want to get married, and oftentimes they'll give you a whole complete class list of I want more resources or I would like security, or they're not unreasonable, right?
	But they definitely have a completely distinct distinction and opinion for why they want to get married.
	That is, I don't even think you could disagree that that's 100% valid for dating.
	Talking about marriage is fine, discouraging, but it's not.
	When do I ever discourage?
	This podcast discourages marriage all the time.
	When?
	When have I ever discouraged marriage?
	I didn't say you did, I said this podcast.
	I have always maintained to try to throw you like as much banal ramp as I can.
	I've always maintained that to me, I can't create justifications for secular marriage.
	Well, by the way, we're also talking about red pill manosphere.
	Myron Gaines is also someone else, another popular.
	He also can't create, so I've had conversations with Myron about this.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	He also is in the same boat that I am in that for secularist men, because what Myron says is from the religious standpoint, it makes sense, especially if there's an ecclesiastical authority which can help govern it.
	But he's the same play, like from the secularist standpoint, justifying it for men is very difficult.
	When he's talking about not getting married, he never caveats it about being secular.
	He says, why would men get married?
	They don't get anything out of it.
	It's stupid.
	And this is the same message that red pill content creators are promoting to their people, and that's why they are actually, and that's why they're not.
	I actually see some ground here that he probably does talk like that, but he's a secularist.
	Okay.
	So when he's referencing men, right, he's thinking of it from that view.
	What does Andrew Tate think about marriage?
	What does that have to do with Myron Gaines?
	One at a time.
	Don't pivot.
	Don't red herring.
	And also, I just want to come in here.
	Andrew Wilson is not Andrew Tate.
	So why is Andrew doing a defense of Andrew Tate?
	He's doing a defense of Red Pill Manosphere content.
	And they are content creators of that.
	I'm fine.
	I'm fine doing this.
	So Andrew Tate is looking at things also from the perspective of Muslim.
	And he's looking at things from, he has a variance perspective that's kind of interesting, but discouraging.
	I actually understand why it is that secularists discourage marriage for men.
	That makes sense to me.
	And I actually understand why it is that Tate would discourage marriage for men as well.
	That also makes sense to me.
	But since his conversion, he actually seems to discourage it less, but says instead that there needs to be reforms and changes to the way that the laws are done so that men don't take as much risk in marriage.
	Okay, so going back to my opening statement, three of the biggest podcasts that promote red pill content, whatever, Fresh and Fit and Andrew Tate, most of them, excluding you and Jim Bob, discourage marriage typically.
	So that's my point that I've been making this whole time, that you guys, these content creators are discouraging men and women from getting together because it benefits them.
	But I need you to tell me this now, okay?
	I'm going to actually concede this point so that you can tell me why the fuck that's bad for men.
	Do you think men shouldn't get together with women?
	I would love to hear your justifications for why it is that secularist men ought to get married to secularist women.
	Go ahead.
	I think that red pill men, especially the incels of the world, 95% of them report severe depression and they're lonely.
	So these kinds of podcasts promote people being alone and that is dangerous to men.
	You're right.
	But have you looked at the unaliving rates for divorced men?
	They're high, but no, how much higher.
	80% of 80% of all on the lives are men.
	80% of all on the lives are men.
	And by the way, why didn't you throw in, because you're only giving one side of this, right?
	I've read probably all of these studies.
	In fact, you can give me the list.
	I bet you I have.
	You have the list.
	Here's what's interesting.
	And the study that you're citing specifically, especially when it comes to unaliving.
	Yeah, especially when it comes to unaliving, which demographic unalives the most?
	It's those who cohabitate.
	The cohabitating men who are unmarried, right?
	They actually unalive more than the men who are married or the men who aren't married, including these depressed men.
	And cohabitation seems to be like kind of the number one thing that secularists push, right?
	Go ahead and cohabitate and go ahead and live together.
	There's no reason for you to have any type of moral standards.
	There's no reason for you not to go ahead and move in with your girlfriend.
	That's what they push.
	Do you think who's getting married more right now than any other demographic?
	Who?
	College-educated people.
	Yeah, that's true.
	Mostly secularists.
	So I don't know what you're saying.
	So what?
	Secularists aren't pushing don't get married.
	What does that have to do with anything?
	This idea that you're saying secularists have this non-moral code where they're saying just cohabitate.
	It doesn't matter.
	That's not what's happening because they're actually getting married.
	Yeah, because women who are in college have access to much higher status men than women who aren't in college.
	College educated people are also getting divorced less.
	Yes, because you have the high status man that you want who has lots and lots of money.
	Yes, that's the way that works.
	women are also making a lot of money.
	Do you know how?
	No, not, no.
	So here's the thing that's so funny.
	Here's what you didn't include here.
	So when it comes to the middle, right, you're right that the middle class, which I would argue.
	You're saying I'm right a lot.
	Which probably doesn't exist.
	I appreciate you saying I'm right.
	Well, the thing that's so fun about making a concession to a point is that it makes it easier for me to destroy it.
	Oh, yeah.
	So here's what's funny about this.
	You are correct that the middle class does get divorced a bit less.
	Or I'm sorry, get married a bit less, right?
	In some cases, a lot less, depending on what's going on.
	But here's why.
	You can only usually get a guy or a woman based around the social dynamics and social circle that you're in, right?
	Sure.
	They only have access to women or men who are roughly making around the same amount or not the same amount as them.
	And usually they meet them at work thing.
	College-educated women, different.
	Now they have access to this kind of wider pool of much more wealthy men, right?
	And so, yeah, of course.
	Of course they marry them more often.
	They have a higher status there for them to go after.
	That's why they do that.
	I like how you think women are just going after high-status men when they make up 45% of the workforce, 43% of entrepreneurs.
	They're making their own money, Andrew.
	Tell me, though, what the disparity is between the amount of money that these college-educated women make compared to their college-educated husbands, sir?
	I'm not sure, but that's- Yeah, you're not sure.
	I'm not sure.
	Oh, that's such a shock.
	Well, let me tell you, because I am sure, right?
	A significant, it's a significant thing.
	Give me a number then, if you know so much.
	Give me a number.
	Because I don't remember if it's between 100%.
	I don't remember if it's between 0.5 or 1, but it's at least, at least 0.5 more.
	Okay.
	At least.
	Okay.
	So, like, I don't even know what you're arguing here.
	Yeah, I'm arguing here that secularists still get married and you're making the stupid point that they're promoting cohabitation, even though that's not the same thing.
	I would say that if it were the case that the middle class had access to the same amount of wealth as the college-educated women do, that they would be getting married at the same rates to those men.
	Okay, well, why aren't they getting married then?
	Because they don't have access to those men.
	Okay.
	Can you tell me why that's wrong?
	No.
	I think.
	No, you can't, can you?
	Because it makes sense, doesn't it?
	I'm about to.
	Why do you think there's such a gulf between relationships right now that you actually encourage?
	I don't.
	What golf do I encourage?
	You encouraged it on Pearl Davis' show just this week.
	that the gulf she said men and women are dating you You said good.
	Yeah, no.
	No, no, no.
	Are you serious?
	Yeah, yeah.
	You're going to lie right here, right in front of me.
	No, I don't think I did say that.
	Yes, you did.
	You said it's good because I'll tell you what you said.
	You said they're going to hold out because you think women are going to cave first so that we could start creating these generals again.
	Ah, yes.
	So you're talking about my internal critique of Pearl Davis.
	Pearl Davis said men and women aren't dating and you said good.
	And this is why it's good.
	That's not an internal critique.
	This is why it's good.
	That's not an internal.
	Yes, it was.
	The entire conversation with Pearl was an internal critique.
	That specific conversation was not an internal critique.
	The whole conversation was an internal critique.
	That's a very likely story.
	It's not only a light, but listen, am I a person who debates utilizing internal critiques?
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	And do I use that?
	Do I have a staple for utilizing internal critiques?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	Why is it, though, that for some reason you think with Pearl Davis, I wouldn't use internal critiques?
	Because throughout the, I will admit, throughout the podcast, you were, but this specific point, you weren't.
	This was your own personal belief that it's a good thing that men and women are dating because you only want Christian people dating.
	No, no, no.
	You only want Christian people dating and having babies.
	Secularists go fuck themselves.
	My point there.
	No, this is off the top of my head, right?
	And I think it's unfair for you to hold me to the standard of this debate that I had that went on for hours.
	I can't remember every detail of it.
	But if I remember this correctly, what actually happened there was we were discussing secular marriage.
	And if the gulf got too wide, right, then people are going to divert themselves over to other ex thing.
	But I don't remember.
	It had nothing to do with secular.
	It's like you keep throwing that word in front of what these people are saying because it just helps your argument.
	But that's not what you guys are discussing.
	You're talking about men and women aren't dating.
	Do you admit that men and women are dating currently?
	Do you know men, 18 to 2400 women out in real life?
	Did you know that?
	Yeah.
	No, well, no, that's not correct.
	Okay, correct me then.
	Yeah, no, show me.
	Show me any data that shows that in your packet.
	It's probably not in that packet.
	Because it's not true.
	Okay, then what's the statistic?
	I don't have to give you a counter.
	I just can tell you that that's not true unless you demonstrate it, demonstrate it.
	Okay, I'm the one who actually brought something.
	Did you bring anything?
	Demonstrate any statistic you've thrown out.
	What statistic have I thrown out?
	Demonstrate any statistic you've thrown out.
	What statistic have I thrown out?
	About how much more men in college make than their wife counterparts.
	I demanded that I give you a number.
	What did I say?
	I demand action.
	You said it's significant.
	I said I significantly other than it's significant the gap.
	Well then show me the proof of that.
	Yeah, that's all I know.
	Shut the fuck up.
	So here, here, just real quick, just demonstrate it.
	Demonstrate it.
	I got your data packet.
	Let me ask you something.
	Are men and women dating less?
	Hold on.
	You got to answer his question.
	I don't have to.
	He doesn't answer questions.
	Hold on.
	If you're going to cross-examine him, he's going to cross-examine.
	I asked him initially how many people are dating and then he said, he has not answered that.
	What was the question?
	He said, you've asked a bunch of, you've shotgunned a bunch of questions.
	He asked you a question back.
	You should respond.
	Oh, my God.
	This fucking room is cooking.
	Can you open that door up?
	It is pretty hot in here.
	Yeah, it's fucking cooking.
	Holy shit.
	This is like peak bad, dude.
	All right.
	It's got to be like a fucking 100-degree hot room, dude.
	So anyway, where were we?
	What were we talking about?
	I asked about men and women dating and the gulf between them.
	Yeah, what about it?
	Do you admit that that's happening?
	That there's a gulf between dating?
	Yeah, that men and women are dating less in general.
	What does that mean?
	What are you asking me?
	Do you think men and women are dating less, yes or no?
	Yes.
	And you think that's a good thing?
	Contextually, it could be a good thing.
	What do you mean by contextually?
	Well, it could be that people are selecting for better, better mates, for instance.
	And so they're dating less because they have much more criteria for them to go off of.
	Maybe you could possibly see these results of that.
	Less single motherhood.
	It could be a good thing.
	Do you think there are more involuntary celibate men than ever?
	No.
	You think this is.
	You think this is not an anomaly that's happening right now?
	No.
	When else in history do you think that was happening?
	So throughout most of history, only about 40% of men ever reproduced.
	And we know this because we can check our ancestry and see how many more female ancestors than male we have.
	So, yeah, most men were not able to reproduce.
	They were expendable.
	They were used as soldiers, used as this, used as that.
	So no.
	Actually, more men.
	I think it's a lot of resources to reproduce.
	I can get by.
	I'll concede that.
	Yeah, you'll concede that point, right?
	So yeah, I don't think that this is like.
	So you don't think there's a golf in the male loneliness thing?
	You don't think that's a real thing?
	Yeah, well, I didn't say that, though.
	What did I actually say?
	No, I'm asking.
	Do you think it's a real thing?
	What I actually said was, I do think it is the case that, no, you are incorrect and that this is not the worst it's ever been.
	I would say that the interpersonal sexual dynamics might be the worst they've ever been, but I also think that feminism and single mom caused that.
	That's an interesting thing.
	Why do you think that caused it?
	Because all the stats show that every single rate that you can imagine a metric, which is horrific on young men, usually comes from single mother homes.
	We're talking everything from homelessness on up.
	Our single thing is everything.
	Is another term for single mother homes fatherless homes?
	Sure.
	So why do you put it on women?
	Because it's usually women who initiate being in the fatherless relationship, not men.
	And why do they initiate being in a fatherless relationship?
	The number one answer from women is that irreconcilable differences.
	So do you know anyone in a woman in your life that's ever been divorced?
	Sure.
	Do they say, hey, we got divorced because we couldn't reconcile our differences, or do they say another reason?
	Usually, well, I mean, they have all sorts of reasons.
	Yeah, but they don't say we couldn't reconcile our differences, right?
	Yeah, that's true.
	Well, what's your point?
	Why do you use that as a reason women are confident?
	Because that's the reason they give is irreconcilable.
	Well, that's the reason they give in court, but what do they give in real life?
	What's the real reason they have leave?
	They have a varying degree of things, but here's what's not happening.
	What they're not actually giving in real life is he was abusing me.
	He was beating me up.
	He was doing this.
	He was doing that.
	Do you know the top three?
	There are three reasons women file for divorce.
	Tell me.
	Infidelity, emotional neglect, and poor communication, followed by finances.
	What's the top three, though?
	That's the top three I just said.
	No, it's not.
	Yes, it is.
	No.
	The top three is not infidelity.
	Yes.
	Infidelity, emotional neglect, and poor communication, followed by finances.
	Oh, so what's the number one reason?
	I just said infidelity.
	I just said.
	Infidelity is the number one reason?
	Correct.
	Okay.
	Which one of these studies proves that?
	Did you bring any studies?
	Tell me what you did.
	You know what?
	Don't say any facts for the rest of this debate if you're not going to show me a study.
	How about that?
	Bro, listen.
	Don't show up.
	No more facts.
	No more facts.
	You got to stop interrupting him.
	Dude, every time.
	You literally were interrupting this talk.
	Yeah, you got to do it.
	Did I make a claim or did you?
	Yo, it's called moderating the show.
	You've been interrupting the entire time.
	If Andrew interrupts you, I'll say the same thing to him.
	Yeah, but just real quick, did you make the claim or did I make the claim?
	I made the claim.
	Okay, great.
	Can you show it?
	I don't have the data point in front of me, but I looked it up prior to this and you can do it after.
	Okay.
	What if we do it now?
	Go for it.
	Sure.
	And where can I find this data?
	I looked it around.
	No, you looked it up.
	I have a lot of data, man.
	I don't know exactly each source where I got her from.
	This is more about single mothers.
	You can look at that one if you want to talk about single motherhood.
	Yeah, we can get into that.
	But again, this is just wild to me.
	I thought you were going to tell me that that was the number one reason.
	Okay, well, you can't use any facts if you don't have any data.
	The number one reason that I'm seeing is lack of commitment.
	Well, that's infidelity.
	And also emotional neglect.
	Okay.
	What does lack of commitment mean to you, Andrew?
	I have no idea what it means.
	You tell me.
	It's not infidelity, right?
	Because infidelity doesn't show a lack of commitment.
	Does infidelity show a lack of commitment?
	So not coming home by fucking 10.
	What are you talking about?
	So tell me, what does that mean?
	Lack of commitment.
	You tell me.
	You're the one who made the claim.
	You're the one who said it was irreconcilable differences.
	That's the number one reason they file divorces as well.
	Yeah, but that's not the reason people actually file for divorce.
	Okay, so the reasons that they give, you're saying that the number one reason women give is infidelity.
	Infidelity, emotional neglect, and poor community.
	Okay, where can I find the statistics?
	I don't remember, man.
	I brought all the statistics.
	You didn't bring any.
	I didn't need to bring any.
	Yeah, because you're making shit up.
	What am I making up?
	Anything you say?
	Because you can't prove it.
	I said that I made up?
	About the finances?
	How do I make something up when I say I don't know for sure?
	Okay, well, you said it's significant.
	That is true.
	It is significant.
	Okay, well, how can you prove that?
	Well, what does significant mean?
	Let's see.
	Statistically, let's just see if we can find this.
	I am not seeing infidelity is the number one answer on any of these.
	Number one reason I'm seeing is financial problems.
	That's not the number one reason.
	And you've also said it's not the number one reason.
	That's what I'm seeing.
	Okay.
	But I'm ready for a counterfactual.
	Okay, fine.
	Let's just concede that I don't know what I'm talking about.
	The point is it's not irreconcilable differences.
	People file for a reason.
	Well, we're talking past each other because we were talking about divorce.
	Right.
	And I said that they file for irreconcilable differences.
	Right.
	You asked for the meaning behind the irreconcilable difference.
	I'm fine with that.
	I just don't think it's infidelity.
	I think that's incorrect.
	And when I just looked, it is.
	You made the claim that it is, but you can't tell me where you're blaming women for filing for divorce, making it sound like it's just some fly-by-the-night thing they decided to do.
	There's typically a reason, and you read something.
	I'm not saying that there's not reasons.
	Okay.
	Then why do you blame women for single motherhood?
	The question is whether or not there's good.
	Well, first of all, can you be a single mother and never be married?
	Sure, but where's the father in this scenario?
	Well, here's the thing.
	Don't courts adjust towards women even when they aren't married.
	Do you know one in three children born out of wedlock don't see their father past the age of three?
	Did you know that?
	Why?
	You tell me.
	I'm waiting.
	No, you tell me.
	Why do I need to tell you when I ask you a question?
	Why?
	Because single motherhood is not just a female problem.
	Okay, but why do they not have access to this?
	Because men tend to abandon children.
	Can you demonstrate that?
	I think I just did.
	How?
	33% of children don't see their father past age of three.
	Yeah, but that doesn't prove that it's because the men don't want to.
	Okay, how many men file for custody of the child in child court?
	I don't know the stats off the top of my head.
	We can look.
	95% of them are filed without contest from the father, and the 4% that do typically do get it.
	So if 95% of men aren't fighting for their child, I think you can look in men for the problem.
	Oh, I see.
	Okay.
	So let's back up.
	Tell me something.
	Who can actually have children, men or women?
	Women.
	Okay.
	Are these women being raped?
	No.
	Okay, so they have the responsibility of making sure that they don't get pregnant, right?
	I think two people have the responsibility to make sure they don't get somebody pregnant at all.
	But do you agree with me that it is the case that most men will sleep with most women, but most women won't sleep with most men?
	So what?
	So if that's the case, right, then women have greater access than men do, don't they?
	Sure.
	So if that's the case, why are they granting access to men who abandon their kids?
	How do they know they're going to abandon their kids?
	That's so weird, though.
	Wait a second.
	Let's back up.
	They're the ones who have the sexual access, right?
	So if they don't know, why are they sleeping with these men?
	They're the ones who get pregnant, not the men.
	And men are the ones that get them pregnant.
	Yeah.
	So what?
	They're a part of the equation.
	So what?
	That's a part of the equation.
	Yeah, but women are the ones who get to access that.
	And men are the ones that access it.
	Okay.
	Can men have abortions?
	No.
	Can men force women to have abortions?
	No.
	Do you believe women should be able to have abortions?
	Yes.
	Well, if that's the case, right, that you believe women ought to be able to have abortions, men ought not to have any say on whether or not women have abortions, then women are the ones who ultimately have 100% access around reproduction, not men.
	So men have no responsibility in your eyes?
	How could they have a responsibility if they're not allowed to make the choice of if the child's even here or not?
	If you got somebody pregnant, would you abandon them?
	Do I form a secular worldview or do I form a Christian one?
	Do Christian people abandon their children?
	No.
	No, they don't.
	All Christians are perfect.
	No, no, no, no.
	Under Christian ethics, you're not to abandon your children.
	Sure.
	Okay, so only secular people abandon their children.
	No, that's not what I said.
	What did I just say?
	Christian ethics bans you from.
	Under Christian ethics, you ought not do that.
	Right.
	Is ought not the same as they don't?
	Should anyone do that?
	Do I think so?
	Yeah.
	Under Christian ethics, no.
	Even secular.
	Do you think people should?
	Even if you're sexual.
	Under Christian ethics, I don't think secular people should.
	And I think secular people also don't think they should abandon their children.
	So what's the point?
	But they can kill them.
	I don't think it's killing.
	Oh, I know, right.
	We're not going to say that.
	You don't think it's killing?
	No, it's not.
	It's not.
	Okay, got it.
	They kill them, but they think that they shouldn't abandon.
	That's a horrible framing.
	That's a horrible frame.
	There's a great compelling reason here.
	The idea is that these women, they're getting knocked up.
	They're the ones who have complete and total access to who sleeps with them.
	They're not getting raped.
	And they have the choice as to whether or not they abort or not abort.
	Yeah.
	But someone also wasn't impregnable.
	But does the man have a choice?
	The man was.
	Does the man have a choice?
	The man has a choice to not impregnate a woman.
	The man has a choice to not impregnate.
	Does the man have the choice to keep the baby?
	Not if the woman has to do with the baby.
	Does the man have the choice to make the woman pay him child support and keep the baby?
	How much is the average child support?
	Can you answer my question?
	No.
	I just went to the bathroom.
	How much is it?
	No.
	No.
	Answer my fucking no.
	I just said no.
	Okay, okay.
	Let's back up.
	Then how about you listen?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Okay, let's back up.
	Well, I said, can you answer my question?
	And you said no.
	You could see how I could perceive that as you saying, I'm not going to answer your question, right?
	Yes.
	No.
	Even the moderator thought that was the case.
	Okay, so let's back up.
	You do believe that it is the case that men can't force women to have their children.
	Correct.
	But women can force men to take care of their children.
	That's correct.
	Okay.
	How is that fair?
	I'm not saying it's fair.
	Okay, so then what is the, so then if men didn't want to have that child, why should they be held to account, take care of it?
	Because it's their child.
	What?
	Because it is their child.
	I'm super confused, but they didn't have a say.
	Doesn't matter.
	It's their child.
	Should they be able to have a say?
	I don't think so.
	But you just said it's not fair.
	Yeah, it's not fair.
	So what?
	They had a child.
	That's their child.
	They should take care of it.
	They should not abandon it.
	So, okay, so to get this right, then women should be able to kill men's children if they want, right?
	Stop framing it as killing them.
	Or hang on.
	Or keep them if they want, and the man has to pay child support for the child.
	That's correct.
	Right?
	That's correct.
	And you think women should get to make that choice.
	100%.
	Why should we let women make that choice?
	Because they're the ones that have to, you know, conceive.
	So, got it.
	So they're the ones who have to conceive.
	So they're the ones making the choice.
	Yep.
	So therefore, it's their responsibility.
	Anything else?
	No, because the father is also part of the responsibility.
	Wait, I'm sorry.
	Who's making the choice?
	They can have the child, but the father should take care of their child.
	And you don't disagree with that, do you?
	Wait.
	Do you disagree with me or not?
	Do you disagree with that?
	I can't justify it from a secular angle.
	Why not?
	Because it makes no sense to me.
	It makes total sense.
	If you have a child, you should take care of it.
	Well, let's try this again.
	I just walked you through the logic.
	Oh, fuck the logic.
	I'm asking you why.
	Do you think a secular person should take care of the child that they have?
	Does a Christian think that?
	Of course.
	And you don't think secular people do?
	Well, I can't see how a secularist could justify it.
	No.
	Not if you're making the claim.
	So you made the claim here.
	From my worldview, if you have a child, you should take care of it.
	Period.
	Why?
	Because that's my worldview.
	Why, though?
	Because it's your child.
	You're justifying part of me.
	I don't need to justify it.
	Right, because when we walk around the logic, here's what we end up with.
	You say women have complete and total access, should be able to kill a man's kid, right?
	Or should be able to bring it to bear and make sure that the man takes care of the kid, but the man can't tell the woman that she has to have the kid if she's pregnant.
	That's right.
	Correct.
	And if there's a child in the world that that man contributed to, he should take care of it.
	Okay, so just to make sure that we got this right, it's an uneven standard for men versus women.
	If that's the world we live in.
	Yeah, so justify why it is that men shouldn't say fuck that.
	I don't need to.
	Okay.
	Well, then, when you ask me, Andrew, don't you think X?
	And I say, well, yeah, you say I can't.
	When I say from a secular point of view, I actually can't answer the justification.
	Just remember that neither can you.
	And I would say most secular people also believe you should take care of a child if you're the one who's not.
	From the Christian ethical angle, of course you're supposed to take care of your children.
	But from the Christian ethical angle, it's also completely appropriate, right?
	To put significant pressure on women to not have abortions, meaning men get a say in the choice, right?
	Well, what's wild to me is that you're complaining about single motherhood and then you're sitting here saying, well, men should say fuck it, which is just wild.
	That men should say fuck it.
	What did I say when you said so men should say fuck it, right?
	I'm sorry.
	Do you know what an ought is versus a descriptor?
	What's an ought?
	An ought is, I don't know.
	Did I say that secular men ought do that?
	Or did I say I can't, I can't think of a justification.
	You can't think of a justification.
	And neither can you.
	But you also don't think single motherhood is a good thing, correct?
	That's correct.
	So why don't you encourage men to take care of the children?
	Should we force them to?
	I think so.
	Okay, so you think that we should force men to take care of the kids.
	Correct.
	That's what child support is.
	But no, that's not.
	Well, that is true that they take it by force, I guess.
	Yeah, that's what you said.
	But what I'm talking about force is like, should we make them participate as a father?
	Yes.
	We should force that.
	As long as the court rules that they should, yes.
	No, that's different.
	I'm not asking about what the court rules.
	I'm asking, do you think we should force men to participate?
	I think they should force at least child support.
	No, no, no, that's not my question.
	Well, that's what I'm saying.
	Should they force men to participate in being a father?
	Being a father?
	No.
	Not at the father.
	If a father's going to be a shitty father, then they're not.
	Then can you explain to me how it is that if the woman can get child support from the guy, right?
	And you are not going to force any participation, aren't you pushing single motherhood?
	No, you're blaming women for single motherhood.
	Yeah.
	And you're saying that.
	They're the ones who have all the choice by your own admission.
	But the fathers have no part to play in it.
	And single motherhood.
	The fathers have no part to play.
	If fathers can't make the determination as to whether or not they can even have the kid, and only the woman can, you hold an uneven playing field.
	I have at least a consistent view.
	Women should not be allowed to abort, and men ought to actually be made to participate in their own children's life.
	That's my consistent worldview.
	Your worldview is inconsistent.
	Okay.
	You're making things totally inconsistent.
	That if a man, sure, if a man has a child, they should take care of it.
	Do they?
	That's a different story.
	I'm saying they should.
	If women have children, should they take care of it?
	Yeah.
	Can they give it up for adoption?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	Can the man make the woman give or why can't the man give up his parental rights and just walk away?
	If the woman can.
	If the woman does, then he can.
	Well, wait, that's really weird.
	I don't get it.
	If it is the case that the mother has guardianship of the father's child, she can still put the child up for adoption, right?
	Sure.
	Okay, but he can't.
	If he has guardianship of the child, he can't.
	If he has guardianship.
	So he can't too.
	But if she's a single mom, what gives him guardianship?
	Well, he doesn't have guardianship.
	I'm saying if a father has guardianship, he can also put up the child for adoption.
	It's not just a motherfucker.
	Yeah, but who does it default to?
	Why does it default to women?
	Because that's the way the system is set.
	How is it set that way?
	Because it has become matrilineal rather than patrilineal.
	What does that mean?
	What does that mean?
	It means from the father or from the mother.
	No, I know the definition.
	You always use those things.
	It means family court.
	Yeah.
	Why is it giving?
	Because feminists have made huge pushes in order to make it that way.
	Feminists have pushed that women get custody of the child?
	Yeah.
	Are most judges in family court, men or women?
	And family court, they're men.
	And so they're influenced by feminists?
	Sorry, wait a second.
	Are you saying that men can't be feminists?
	I'm saying that I doubt that the majority of families.
	Are you saying that men can't be feminists?
	I'm saying that I doubt all the family court judges are so influenced by feminists.
	Does family court judges have to adhere to the law or do they make the law?
	I'm not sure if they make the law or not.
	They have to adhere to the law.
	They don't make it, right?
	Yeah.
	So family court judges are just adhering to the law, right?
	And what's the law say?
	Yeah, the law.
	So here's what happened.
	We used to have what are called coverture laws.
	Coverture laws actually forced men to take care of their families, that very same thing that you want, right?
	Of course, this also made children their property, and women, right, were also part of the man then, right?
	That was how it went.
	But guess what?
	They had to take care of their family or they went to fucking jail.
	That's what happened.
	Marriages stayed together about 90, 95%.
	And then you know what happened?
	Feminists really pushed real fucking hard for the average default laws.
	And here's what the average default laws were.
	Oh.
	The average default laws were saying basically on average, the default's going to go to women, right?
	Now, there's a whole series of laws I can pull up and go through.
	But yes, this was pushed by feminists so that there were default laws which pushed literally that women default by default had custody.
	Yes, that is correct.
	That is not how it works because if a father tries to get custody of the child, they often do get it.
	But now they do now.
	Oh, so feminists have failed then?
	No, bro.
	There's been, since men's rights movement started, especially in about the mid-2000s, there have been reforms to the laws.
	Male custody has quadrupled because of men's rights advocacy groups.
	And yes, quadrupled.
	And yes, I can grab you that stat if you want it.
	I'm not saying it has quadrupled because these laws have now begun to get rolled back.
	But it used to actually just be a straight default.
	A straight default.
	Because my understanding of this is most fathers aren't filing for custodial guardianship.
	You have to understand that you're looking at it from a historic prism.
	That doesn't make any sense.
	You're talking about modern laws and the way that modern custody arrangements happen.
	It wasn't always this case.
	The case used to be actually that children went to the men.
	That was the old laws under coverture laws, right?
	That changed with feminism and radical feminism pushing for those laws to be changed.
	So you're saying there was a time when the children were raised, there were more single fathers than single mothers?
	No, there just wasn't really any erosion of marriage.
	Okay, then why did you say that?
	Why did you make that point?
	You made the point that back in the day, men were getting custody of the children, but then there were still more single mothers.
	No, there wasn't very many single mothers either.
	Okay, but they outnumbered the single fathers.
	No, there wasn't.
	Listen, these marriages stayed together, but under the law, it was true under the coverture laws that the child was the property or was at least associative property to the father, yes.
	I'm glad we're having this discussion because it goes back to the point that I've been trying to make.
	Can you explain, though, your logic then?
	No, I'm not going to explain.
	I understand the logic.
	No, I want to get back to the thing where we're going to be talking about.
	No, I want to get escape.
	I want to get back.
	Hang on, hang on.
	No, I'm not hanging out.
	It's not about escaping.
	Before I let you escape.
	I just want to get back to this logic.
	This is the point that I'm trying to make.
	Why would it be that there was more trying to get to the menu?
	Hang on, stop.
	I don't want to.
	I just want to finish this.
	I want to get back to the thing.
	If you just answer this last question.
	I don't give a shit.
	I want to get to the next thing.
	Why won't you answer my questions?
	Because the whole point I've been trying to make this whole debate is that any— Any chance you get, you blame women.
	Any chance you get, you blame women.
	Single mothers.
	For what?
	For everything.
	You blame women for the downfall of society, Andrew.
	What if it is that – let me ask you this.
	You blame – Do you blame women for the downfall of society?
	No, I don't blame it for the downfall of society.
	The current trend of society?
	You don't?
	No.
	You never said that?
	No.
	What I blame women for specifically, right, is feminism and feminist Marxist ideology.
	I do blame them for that, yeah.
	Okay, and as you said, feminism is the reason there's so many single mothers, right?
	I think it's a core reason, yeah.
	Okay, so is that contributed to the downfall of society?
	Sure.
	So through that logic, women are contributing to the downfall of society?
	Yeah, but men would also be contributing to the downfall of society.
	Okay, so you blame women mostly for the downfall of society.
	I blame feminism, yes.
	The ideology of feminism.
	Which blame the ideology.
	So you're just asking about the executions.
	Like, are you blaming men for the downfall of society of a society which is mostly communists?
	Or would you be blamed because they're enforcing everything, or would you be blaming the ideology?
	You're blaming women.
	Can you answer my question?
	No, you're blaming women.
	You're not blaming the ideology because women are the ones who...
	So I'm going to ask the question again until you answer it.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	So you have a communist country, right?
	And the men are doing most of the bad stuff in the communist country.
	Would you blame the men or would you blame communism?
	I don't think feminism.
	Can you answer my fucking question?
	Answer the question.
	Yes or no?
	I don't know.
	Okay.
	You can start answering that question.
	Because you're saying feminism, the ideology on its own.
	Feminism, the ideology on its own.
	You lived in a communist country and it was mostly the men enforcing the communism.
	You don't know if you'd blame the men or the ideology, really.
	You don't know?
	I probably blame the men at that point.
	You'd blame them.
	Okay, well then, so you're saying that I should blame women?
	No, I'm saying that you do.
	I blame the ideology.
	No, you're blaming the women.
	Every chance you get.
	The only consistent thing you could actually say here would be, I blame communism for the way these men are behaving, unless you innately think men are bad.
	What about men are bad?
	What about feminism is bringing about the downfall of society?
	You mean what is it contributing to?
	It's not just contributing to single motherhood.
	It also contributes to these two-income households.
	It's contributing to, well, it contributes to the fact that we even need two-income households.
	But one of the major things it contributes to is taking mothers out of the home.
	That's the biggest way that it contributes to the downfall of society, is taking mothers out of the home.
	Don't you agree?
	I don't agree.
	This goes to the point that I'm saying that.
	How does this change what I said that you blame feminism for the downfall of society?
	Well, you didn't say that.
	You said that.
	I said that initially, and I said that in my opening statement.
	You said I blame women.
	Who implemented feminism?
	Yeah, so, well, that was a bunch of rich corporatists.
	Oh, sure.
	And then it was also a lot of women who were in bed with.
	No, it really was.
	It was rich corporatists.
	Was it men that implemented feminism?
	It was both.
	Okay.
	Yeah, it was both.
	But what do you think?
	But back to this.
	I just want to make sure, right?
	Why would it, like, how would it even track that I would blame women for the or hate women?
	I'm sorry, hate women.
	I do blame them if they're feminists for holding that ideology, but that's not all women.
	That's not me hating women.
	You made the distinction earlier that if I hate an individual woman, that's not, that's not misogyny, right?
	I wouldn't say on an individual level, no.
	Yeah, so then if I hate all feminists, that's only hating individuals with an ideology, right?
	If most women are feminists, wouldn't that be misogynist?
	I'm not sure that most women, well, I don't know.
	That's hard to say.
	But if it is the case, no.
	Actually, even if it was the case that most women were feminists and you hated all women who were feminists, you still wouldn't hate women.
	You would only hate feminists.
	That's an easy way out of that one.
	Oh, I mean, it's true, though, right?
	No, no, it's not true.
	Okay, well, then explain the logic to me.
	Because if women are feminists and you hate feminism, then you hate women.
	No, no, you hate feminism.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So here's the thing.
	And I can prove it.
	I hate men who are feminists too.
	Oh, you're looking at one.
	Yeah.
	So here's the thing.
	If that's the case then, would that make me a misandrist?
	I don't think so.
	What if most men were feminists?
	Which you said is about 80%.
	So then I hate 80% of men by that logic.
	So I'm a misandrist, right?
	If you hate them for that, yeah, sure.
	Okay, so then I'm a misandrist and a misogynist.
	Then yeah, you hate me.
	So I just fucking hate everybody?
	I mean, I wouldn't say most misery.
	I just fucking hate everybody.
	I wouldn't say most men are feminists.
	You said 80%?
	Granting your hypothetical.
	You weren't granting a hypothetical.
	I asked you the question.
	You said 80% agree with me.
	No, I don't think that's a good question.
	I don't think 80% of men are feminists.
	Okay, how many?
	I don't know.
	I have no idea.
	I'll throw out a number.
	I'll say maybe 30%.
	30%.
	Yeah.
	And how many women?
	I have no idea.
	Maybe 80.
	So a lot more?
	Yeah.
	And you think that that shouldn't come up during a dating talk, huh?
	I'm not saying it should.
	I'm saying that you blame feminism.
	You don't think by default you blame women.
	Men and women are in the workplace.
	Men and women are so ideologically split on like almost as like a 60-20 playing field, you don't think that that's pertinent to dating?
	I'm not saying that.
	I'm saying that you blame feminism for the downfall of society.
	Not just feminism.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	But I do blame feminists for their part of the downfall of society.
	Yeah.
	Including going to work, including going to college, including all of that.
	No, the idea of separating mothers from children.
	That was the worst thing.
	By going to work and going to college.
	That's a terrible idea.
	Right.
	Don't you think it's a better idea?
	Well, like, why is it a better idea for you to send your kid away from you to like a fucking nanny or something to raise the kid instead of you?
	How's that better?
	I don't know.
	You don't know.
	Move on.
	You don't know.
	Well, you can, do you want to give a response before?
	No.
	Because it's not fucking better, is it?
	I'm not going to get into that.
	Yeah, because it's not better, is it?
	I'm just not going to get into it.
	Yeah, because is it better, though?
	Is it better?
	Is it better to send your kid off the fucking cotsuela?
	Who knows?
	Maybe it's better for that family.
	I have no idea.
	You're making these big, broad generalizations.
	I just want how life should be.
	I just want to know.
	Maybe for some families, on average, that it would be better if mothers raise their children or outsource the raising of their children.
	They're not outsourcing it.
	Maybe it's for part of the day, Andrew.
	That's outsourcing it.
	That's not outsourcing it because it's still the rest of the day.
	Okay.
	So how much time on average is it that you think that mothers are spending with their children in comparison to how much they used to spend with their children before they were in the workforce?
	I have no idea.
	You don't know?
	No.
	What about throwing one of those numbers out?
	What would you think?
	Well, how about this?
	How about, just make it easy?
	More or less?
	Less.
	Less.
	They're spending less time with them now.
	Right.
	Do you think that that's good?
	I think each individual family has their own.
	Do you think that that's good?
	I think each individual family has their own.
	Do you think it's good for society?
	Mothers are spending less.
	You think, okay, got it.
	Got it.
	Well, we'll come back to that.
	We do need to let a couple chats come through.
	We have quite a few who've collected.
	So we have Nasha Nabu.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it.
	Nashu Nabu donated $200.
	The lead attorney, a divorce attorney, speaks on why men do not fight for their kids.
	Judges go off precedent because of this lawyers tell fathers not to fight for their kids because they lose.
	You know, I don't even, I don't even want to grant that.
	Like, I don't even think you need to grant it.
	If the idea is just that women are completely in charge of all reproductive rights, period, and you can't justify why men need to take care of their fucking kids, then who gives a shit?
	If I could respond to that.
	Quick response if you can.
	Yeah, the majority of fathers that do contest tend to get their child, at least in modern times.
	Okay.
	Nashu, appreciate that.
	We have son coming in.
	Thank you.
	Srulofsan donated $100.
	Thank you.
	This guy is a hypocrite, critiquing Andrew for pushing a worldview when he does himself.
	This guy can't make any prescriptive statements.
	He is a progressive feminist.
	This reduces to M my preferences.
	To my preferences.
	Yeah, I came here to say, let's try to get men and women dating again, but we ended up talking about single motherhoods.
	Okay, well, let's get into that.
	Let's go through the chats.
	Let's get through, but we can come back to it.
	Son, appreciate that.
	We have Stream.
	Thank you, man.
	Stream Riff donated $100.
	Women will lie, cheat, and steal to hurt a father by fighting over custody.
	The question shouldn't be why men don't fight for their kids.
	It's why do single moms make them fight to begin with?
	If you care about your kids, you'll fight for them.
	I don't care.
	I don't care the obstacles.
	Because my opponent over here demonstrated it for you.
	Women should have the complete and total right over all men's children, including the right to kill them, and should be able to force them to pay support for those children long term and can't even justify why.
	He can't even tell us, give us a single reason why.
	I did give you a reason.
	Okay, what?
	If you have a child, you should take care of it.
	Why?
	Because you should.
	Why?
	Because you should.
	Oh, because you should.
	Because you should.
	Exactly.
	You should give me $100.
	Okay, well, I won't.
	Yeah, but if you say, but you should.
	Okay, you should.
	Yeah, but you should.
	They should raise a child.
	Yeah, but why?
	They should fight for the child.
	Why?
	Because it's their child.
	Why?
	That's a sentence.
	You're just saying, dude, that doesn't say anything.
	Yeah, okay.
	It doesn't say anything.
	It says nothing.
	Fathers should just not take care of the children.
	No, but here's the thing.
	It's interesting, right?
	It's like you're doing everything to enable women to kill men's children.
	I don't agree with that framing, but go for it.
	Well, I mean, here's the thing, right?
	Can men say anything about it?
	Nope.
	Well, then there's nothing, there's no framing here to disagree with.
	Yeah, it's not killing.
	Quick clarifying question for you, just because it's come up a couple times.
	Do you want to just state your quick position on abortion?
	Are you pro-choice?
	I'm here to talk about, I'm pro-choice, but I'm not here to talk about abortion.
	We don't have to get into abortion.
	This is what always happens on this show.
	It's like we're here to talk about red pill manosphere and we're talking about abortion.
	It's just really fast.
	There's a bunch of different projects.
	We need to.
	Yeah, when you ask a bunch of different questions and I test your logic and it moves into that, what's unfair about that?
	Well, it's because you lose the point of what we're here to talk about.
	I'm not losing anything.
	You are.
	You lose the point on what we're talking about.
	This is why your debates take five hours is because you get into all these stupid little side arguments that don't go into what we talked about in the opening statement.
	Let's do it this way.
	You ask a question, I ask a question.
	You answer, I answer.
	How's that?
	And then we can't deter it.
	You want to do it that way?
	I'm following Brian's moderation.
	I'm fine with that if you guys want to go back and forth.
	You think I'm trying to be evasive with you?
	No, it's not about invasive, it's just that every time...
	Or maybe you just want a filibuster.
	I have nothing about filibuster.
	You're doing most of the talking.
	Bro.
	It's been pretty equal, I think.
	Really?
	Yeah, you guys have both talked a good amount.
	Okay.
	All right, here.
	We got more chats, though, then we'll get into some of the debate stuff.
	We have Christopher.
	Thank you, Christopher.
	Appreciate it.
	Christopher Scott donated $100.
	Thanks, man.
	Just because men don't file for custody doesn't mean they abandon their children.
	There could be an agreement outside of court for shared custody.
	That's fair, but statistically, more men abandon the children than women.
	Okay.
	We have Jason Cassell.
	Thank you, guys.
	By the way, if you want to get one in, streamlabs.com slash whatever.
	We're doing $100 job.
	The thing is so funny about that is like, but you advocate for a society where the women own the children.
	I advocate for a society where women get to make the decision whether or not they have a child.
	So they own the child.
	No, they own their pregnancy.
	Yeah, so they own the right over the life of the man's child, literally by the children.
	They own a pregnancy and the father should take care of it after that.
	But what if the man, but if the woman doesn't want to take care of it, she gets out.
	If the father doesn't want to take care of it, he does not, right?
	Correct.
	So then the ownership of the child and life and death of the child and life and death of the father falls to the woman.
	Okay, life's not fair, Andrew.
	Yeah, so don't you think women have a greater responsibility here for reproduction than men?
	I think women have a responsibility for their pregnancy and then a father and hold on.
	I'm talking.
	And then the father and the mother have a responsibility to raise the child.
	Okay, that's not my question.
	Repeat my question.
	But that's my stance.
	Repeat my question.
	Yeah, but that's my stance.
	Okay, so I'm going to ask the question again, then actually answer my question.
	Don't you think that if it is the case that you advocate that only women can have the right to terminate a pregnancy and that only women can have the right to bring it to bear and that affects the man's life and it affects the child's life, but the sole decision is on her for reproduction, why doesn't she have a greater responsibility to who she fucking reproduces with?
	Why?
	Because the other person was involved just as much.
	I don't know what to fucking do with.
	It's fucking so stupid.
	Yeah, it's stupid.
	So way more.
	So she has way more privilege, right?
	Way more privilege.
	Privilege.
	Yeah, way more privilege.
	But for some odd reason, no greater, no more, no, no, not even equal responsibility.
	Like, it's fucking wild to me.
	Yeah.
	So let me just make sure.
	Well, can you say it for me one more time?
	Say it for me one more time that women, right, even though they get to determine the pregnancy the entire time, have no greater duty or responsibility for who they reproduce with.
	Correct.
	Even though they're the gatekeepers of reproduction.
	Because someone else was a part of that birth.
	Even though the gatekeepers of reproduction.
	Gatekeeper, okay.
	Well, literally.
	Someone entered the gate, Andrew.
	Don't they have responsibility?
	No, they could just kill whoever came through.
	Whatever the result of that thing.
	Yeah, but someone walked through the fucking gate, right?
	Yeah, how could I know how you can possibly make this claim consistent for me?
	How do they not have a greater duty when they are the ones who can reproduce?
	Men can't reproduce.
	They have the greater daughter.
	And they don't have the option of saying no afterwards.
	Only women.
	They have a greater duty of the pregnancy.
	And then after that, the mother and the father should raise the child together.
	That's my stance.
	Okay, well, let me ask you this.
	No, we're moving on.
	Do you think that in dating?
	No.
	No, you.
	Yeah.
	Go ahead.
	Do you think in dating, right, that it would be like a really big deterrent if I knew that if I had sex with a woman, even if I cared about her, right?
	And she got pregnant, that I would have zero choice over the health and welfare of my child, but she would have 100% of the choice over that.
	Isn't that how it is today?
	Yeah.
	So what's the difference?
	Yeah.
	So right now, today, don't you think that that would act as a massive deterrent in dating, which is the thing you want men and women to do again?
	What's changed about that?
	When hasn't that been the case?
	When's the last time that wasn't the case?
	What?
	That women had.
	The scenario.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, so before the 60s.
	Okay, well, people were still dating, right?
	Yeah, but don't you think that abortion had an arc where previous generations were not as accustomed to it as they are now?
	And before there wasn't that many people resisting it, and now many, many more.
	It's the age of the internet, right?
	So you don't think men are dating because they're afraid women are going to abort their child?
	Do you think any reason's a monolithic one?
	Not necessarily, no.
	Yeah, so I could have many reasons, right?
	Okay, but you're asking about this one.
	Yeah, so that's right.
	This one in particular.
	Do you think that that would cause incentive, more incentive at least, for men to be very wary of the dating market if it is the case that women can have the choice over the reproduction of their child?
	No, I don't.
	Why?
	Because it hasn't really changed that much since the 60s.
	So I really don't understand this.
	Even if it is a case that boomers, right, who didn't really have to deal with this problem as much as it's done.
	I mean, it's casual now.
	It's casual.
	Like, do you think in the 60s and 70s that women were female comedians were televising their abortion like Sarah Silverman?
	No, but you said it's more casual, right?
	Yeah.
	Their abortions are more casual.
	And sex is more casual too?
	Yes.
	So that doesn't seem like much of a deterrent.
	What do you mean?
	Guys are still banging.
	Sex.
	Hang on.
	Yeah, correct.
	Yeah, the sex isn't a deterrent.
	The sex is, regardless of relationships, Andrew.
	The sex is what causes dating.
	So if more casual sex is happening, then it's not much of a case.
	If you're dating a woman, is that casual sex?
	No, we're talking about dating.
	Yeah, say the word dating.
	Obviously, not if people are having casual sex.
	I don't need to say shit.
	If people are having more casual sex, then they're obviously not that deterred by the idea of this woman could terminate the pregnancy.
	So I'm talking about dating.
	I asked you about that word, dating.
	You say casual sex, but then casual sex, not dating.
	So that you shouldn't logically put that in.
	It makes no sense.
	So we're talking about dating.
	Do you think if you're dating a woman, right, that you would be deterred from dating the thing you want to do by the fact that she has complete and total control over reproduction?
	No, because I don't think men are avoiding dating because they're like, oh man, she might abort my child.
	But really?
	But I thought you just said that there was an uptick in casual sex.
	There is.
	Instead of dating?
	Not instead of dating.
	I'm saying there's been casual sex for a long time.
	Is dating up or down?
	Dating is down.
	Is casual sex up or down?
	It's about the same as it was probably whenever we were in college.
	No.
	Okay.
	No.
	Do you think that casual, but even if that was the case, dating is down?
	Casual sex the same?
	So that would still mean that people are having more casual sex than they're dating, right?
	Yeah, but I don't think they're not dating because they're afraid they're going to have a child abortion.
	You don't even think it could be possibly a contributing factor.
	No.
	You wouldn't even grant it's a contributing factor.
	No.
	Okay.
	What about for the religious?
	Is it a contributing factor for them?
	I think they're probably not having premarital sex to begin with.
	Oh, dude.
	Just because you're religious, right, you can still give in to temptation, right?
	Okay.
	Don't you think that would be a deterrent?
	I think they're more abstinent than a lot of secular people.
	Sure.
	But wouldn't it be a deterrent?
	No.
	No.
	Because I don't think a religious person would get an abortion.
	What the hell are you talking about?
	Because you're religious, the person you're dating has to be.
	I would imagine if you're dating a religious person, you're probably religious too.
	No, that's not the case, especially not for Christian men.
	They date secular women constantly.
	Okay.
	And it's a fear they talk about often that, hey, if I slip up and she gets pregnant, she can actually just take out my kid and there's nothing I can do about it.
	I want to get it.
	Which is why they date less and less secular women, trying to move more and more towards Christian women.
	Doesn't that lower the chance of dating?
	No, that doesn't?
	Okay.
	I know you want to ask a question.
	We'll finish the chats and you can ask the question here.
	We have Jason Cassell.
	Really quick, Kaibaka.
	I don't know if you're still watching on Twitch.
	It won't let me trigger the gifted subs.
	I think you sent in 40 gifted subs on Twitch.
	Thank you so much, Kaibaka.
	Appreciate it.
	We have Jason here.
	Thank you, man.
	Appreciate it.
	Jason Castle donated $100 to the feminist man.
	You may be one of the dumbest individuals to debate, Andrew.
	You don't know what an aught is, you don't know what descriptors are, and you said F the logic.
	You are beyond dumb.
	You did say fuck the logic.
	I did.
	I absolutely did.
	Why would you say fuck the logic?
	Because that's not what I'm here to talk about.
	Well, I'm here to talk about that red pill people are not dating, and I don't think it's helping them.
	That's what I'm here to talk about.
	Okay, well, here, let's get through the chats just because we gotta have a smoke real quick.
	Okay.
	And let's see.
	We have Jason Cassell again here.
	Jason Castle donated $100.
	Andrew will be back.
	He's just getting a smoke.
	To the dumb feminist man, the reason the feminism movement has gained the power it has is because of weak, dumb men like you.
	Way to go, dummy.
	You want to respond to Jason?
	I'm glad that the feminist movement has gained as much traction as it has.
	All right.
	Thank you, Jason.
	Appreciate that.
	We have Chef Dill Pickles coming in here.
	Thank you for that, Chef Dill Pickles.
	Appreciate it.
	Chef Dill Pickles donated $99.
	Feminist, would you say it's about 13% of the fathers leaving?
	The last stat I have is one in four households are fatherless.
	So that sounds about 25%.
	All right.
	We have Ogle coming in here.
	Dill Pickles, thank you for that question.
	Got Ogle.
	If you guys want to get a chat in, it's $100.
	$99.
	TT.
	Thank you, Ogle.
	Ogleunderscore Glue.net donated $100.
	Fella on the right is a good heart.
	It's in the right place, but his brain isn't working properly, unfortunately.
	Hopefully, today's talk at least gives him food for thought over the next few weeks.
	All right, Ogle.
	I appreciate the half compliment.
	I mean, I'm not a debater, but I literally am here to try to help people get out of depression and get out of the red pill space.
	That's what I'm trying to do.
	All right.
	We have Ogle.
	Thanks again.
	We have Stream Rift here.
	Thank you, Streamrift.
	Stream Rift donated $100.
	Two attorneys, a law firm, and a sitting judge violated the law to intentionally keep me, a dad, away from my disabled daughter.
	Cuck you for blaming men, Eastern District of Virginia, colon 1, colon 25, CVO 0572.
	I just want to be clear.
	That sucks, man.
	That sucks.
	Like, you can't be with a child.
	I don't know the whole situation.
	I want to be clear.
	I'm not blaming all men, but I'm saying that you can't blame single mothers when you're not looking at the fathers too.
	All right, Stream Rift.
	Sorry to hear about your situation.
	And he included the case number two.
	Lulu here.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it.
	Lulu donated $100.
	Can this guy debate in good faith instead of resorting to this just my stance?
	The end?
	You came on this podcast to debate, so do it.
	When you can't defend when your ideas are challenged, why are you here?
	Yeah, so no, I came here with an agenda for sure.
	I'm not the best debaters.
	This is only my second debate ever.
	So, yeah, maybe I miss up on some logic, but I am here with an agenda to try to help people get out of the red pill.
	That's all I'm doing.
	All right, we have Christopher Scott here.
	Christopher Scott donated $100.
	This dude is such a petulant child.
	No, I'm not gonna answer.
	Butterfly logic.
	Quit whining, kitten.
	You wanna.
	Oh, it said pussy.
	But it automatically changes it.
	I don't know why, Chris.
	Do you want to respond to Christopher?
	Nah.
	You're good.
	Okay, can you pop the doors open?
	And there's a, I know you said you were hot.
	There's an ice pack there for you if you need it or not.
	No, I'm good.
	Okay.
	Mary, just grab that ice pack once you get in a moment.
	All right.
	And then we have some super chats we need to get to.
	It could be I'm red.
	I have the Asian flush from the whiskey.
	I think the whiskey might have heated you up.
	I got the Asian flush.
	Did I get the Asian flush?
	You're Irish, right?
	They're kind of Asian.
	Yeah, well, they call it the Asian flush.
	Okay.
	Yeah, no, I've heard of that.
	All right, we have emotional damage.
	I once knew a guy who talked, Mary, the, just on the corner of the table here, for me.
	Can I read this?
	Yeah, go for it.
	I once knew a guy talk like this dummy.
	He's now divorced and happily broke while his wife is living in his house and driving his car.
	He still feels content in his life because he gets to pay her.
	Can you take that one?
	Because he gets to pay her half of his salary, lost custody of his kids.
	Such a proud feminist.
	Emotional damage can see in the chat.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Sad for that guy, but I'm happily married and I don't see that as my outcome.
	How long have you been married for?
	Coming up on three years.
	Together, about eight or nine.
	Congratulations.
	Thank you.
	There you go.
	And may you have many children that your wife can determine whether she wants to abort?
	We don't want children, but we're not worried about that.
	That's not.
	Why am I not shy?
	Are you an anti-natalist?
	No.
	No.
	Okay.
	We have Lucas here.
	It looks like there's a string of them.
	One, what?
	The concept of submission outlined in Ephesians 5.22, wives, submit yourselves to your own husband as you do to the Lord, is not pertinent to intersexual dynamics, question mark.
	Oh, but wait, only in your small circle, Andrew, that small circle representing 62% of the population.
	The U.S. population.
	This guy is a woke clown, but let me guess, Kamala voter?
	Yes.
	Or did you vote?
	Definitely.
	Definitely voted Kamala.
	100%.
	Sorry, champ.
	My wife and I vote MAGA unapologetically.
	Good-looking wife, by the way, Lucas.
	Lucas is, you know, he's going to have some good-looking kids.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	See, he's married.
	He watches the podcast.
	They watch the podcast together.
	That's good.
	Would you say most of your audience is married?
	Would you?
	I know, I heard you say this.
	Would you say that she is a misogynist?
	I won't.
	I don't know anything about this.
	I don't want to say that.
	It may not be most of them are married, but most of them are in marriageable age and a significant portion is married.
	Okay.
	Well, let me ask you this.
	Do you think of the content creators that we're talking about, including the audience here, would you say most of them are married or in a relationship?
	Or would you say the majority aren't?
	Of the viewers?
	Yeah.
	I haven't pulled them.
	I wouldn't know.
	Do you have like...
	I'll go ahead and grant.
	Probably, the majority of them probably aren't married.
	Why would that matter?
	Or in a relationship?
	I don't know.
	I haven't pulled my audience.
	I mean, we're kind of about to reach a threshold soon where most of the population is not going to be married or in a relationship.
	But the whole point that I'm trying to make is that I think red pill content is furthering that divide.
	Yeah.
	Because it makes people not want to date you.
	I wanted to.
	Wait, let me just finish the chats.
	If you want, just write a note and we'll get it.
	Oh, wait.
	I need to finish Lucas's colour.
	Ogle, I'll come back to that one in just a moment.
	Let me finish up Lucas's.
	So, Sir Simpleot, can you square this circle for me?
	I'm a happily married, red-pilled, Christian nationalist MAGA voter.
	So based.
	So is my wife.
	So is my wife, by the way, on each of the preceding fronts.
	And yet, according to you, I'm a radicalized, miserable incel loner misogynist.
	Do you want to respond to that?
	I would love to.
	The studies show that most people who consume red pill content are becoming isolated, angry, mad at women, and they're dating less.
	You are an exception.
	Yeah.
	Can you say the same about feminism, though?
	Which of the studies show that, by the way?
	All the ones I gave you.
	The case of misuse of evolutionary psychology and online manosphere communities.
	Yep.
	The case for female all three things I just cited, different studies.
	Can you tell me though, you didn't, you didn't put in who the people were for the studies.
	Cause oftentimes you can click.
	I'll send you the electronic file.
	Have you heard of what's called publishing bias?
	Sure, let's not trust stats.
	No, no, no.
	It's not about that.
	Listen, hear me out here.
	Okay.
	There's something called the replication crisis.
	You ever heard of that?
	The replication crisis?
	No.
	When you go back to redo sociology studies, the vast majority of them can't be replicated.
	Okay.
	The vast majority, and that would be psychology and sociology.
	Would you say that these studies that you gave me are mostly sociological?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And would therefore suffer from the replication crisis.
	And that would mean that there's a good possibility that up to 60% of what you just gave me here will never be replicated.
	I think when you have so many studies saying similar things, I don't think that's an issue.
	I also think that you can grant that most of the red pill community are potentially like incels.
	There's a Venn diagram of people in the red pill community.
	But that's where publishing bias comes in.
	Hold on.
	In the red pill community, incels are a big part of the red pill community.
	What is an incel?
	Someone who's involuntarily celibate.
	Meaning they can't have sex?
	Even though they'd like to.
	Okay, so they can't get a hooker?
	I guess, but maybe they don't want to.
	Maybe they want to.
	So then they're not involuntarily celibate.
	Do you not believe in incels?
	So they're not involuntarily cells?
	Do you not believe in incels?
	I'm asking you a question.
	Why are you?
	You're asking me a stupid question.
	No.
	Do you not believe in incels?
	Can an incel buy a hooker?
	Sure.
	Okay, and you say they don't want to.
	Potentially.
	So how are they involuntarily celibate?
	You think they should buy a hooker?
	No, I'm asking how they're involuntarily celibate.
	Because they can't get someone to date them, Andrew.
	But that wouldn't be, I'm sorry.
	What does celibacy mean?
	This is the same bullshit you do.
	What's really important for important people?
	If you don't acknowledge that incels are real, just say that.
	But don't try to play this game.
	Don't play debate club with me.
	Don't play debate club with me.
	Debate clubbing, nothing.
	I'm making a debate club.
	No, it's not.
	See, semantics are a big debate club thing.
	Semantics are part of debate.
	Do you believe that incels are real?
	It's hard to say.
	Oh, yeah, of course.
	You can't just say yes.
	It depends on what you're saying.
	You can't just say yes because this is what you do.
	I will say yes or no if you just clarify for me that an involuntary celibate is a person who just can never get sex no matter what.
	That's typically the definition, yes.
	Okay.
	Can these people get prostitutes?
	Can they buy prostitutes?
	Who knows?
	You don't know if they can?
	Maybe they don't have money.
	I have no idea.
	Oh.
	Okay.
	Do incels exist?
	By that definition.
	Not my definition.
	Do incels exist?
	Well, it depends.
	Well, do incels exist.
	From my definition.
	This is some bullshit game.
	From my definition.
	Anyone's definition.
	Just, bro, I don't know why you don't understand what semantics are.
	I don't understand why you can't answer the question.
	I don't need to be walked through it.
	I don't want to play your game.
	I'm not playing a game.
	Yes, you are.
	Do incels exist?
	Oh, not by your definition.
	I have no idea if incels exist.
	How could I even admit to that?
	Oh, my God.
	Okay, let me ask you a question.
	Do LaFlipidus exist?
	Not that I know of.
	Wait, wait.
	What's a LaFlipidoo?
	Who knows?
	Then how the fuck do you know if they exist or not?
	Have you read a study on inflip-ado's?
	Why would that matter?
	Okay.
	I did.
	Do LaFlipidoos exist or not?
	Okay, Andrew.
	What I mean by LaFlip-Ido is very strong.
	What I mean by LaFlippadoo is, yes, if you have a proprietary definition.
	Yeah, okay.
	You can't.
	So this is what's called equivocation.
	Is this fallacious argument?
	It's called debate club.
	That's what you're saying.
	No, it's equivocation.
	It's called debate club.
	Are you in a debate?
	I didn't think so.
	I think we're having a discussion.
	Why?
	Because we're having a discussion about red pill communities.
	When you sat down before the show, didn't say I'm an excellent person.
	We're having a discussion about red pill communities.
	We're having a fucking debate.
	But now you're saying that red pill communities don't have incels, which is completely.
	Not what I said.
	Well, they don't exist in your world.
	Not what I said either.
	You're trying to get some stupid definition that doesn't exist.
	Listen, I'm trying to explain this.
	No, you're not trying to do shit and explain it.
	Avoid the question.
	When you're done, I'll explain.
	You're not trying to.
	No, I don't need to be explained.
	Well, I'm going to explain it anyway.
	Well, so just that you understand, definitionally, things can be here's debate club 101, everybody.
	If you want to be in the debate club, listen, everybody, because this is super important.
	It's super important.
	Incels don't exist.
	We're in a debate.
	Incels don't exist, by the way.
	Well, we're in a debate.
	All you incels out there, it's not true.
	All you incels, I'm sorry, Andrew doesn't believe you exist.
	He doesn't think you exist.
	Well, when you're done, I'll explain.
	I'm done.
	Okay.
	But I'm not going to.
	So I'll explain.
	So if you're an incel.
	You're not going to let it.
	No.
	If you're an incel, Andrew doesn't think you exist.
	He thinks you should just go buy a hooker, just FYI.
	Which would definitely.
	Wait, Andrew, just go ahead.
	Which, if you could buy a hooker, by his definition, wouldn't make you an incel.
	So how this works is if somebody has a definition of something is proprietary, right?
	I don't know what he means by the thing he's asking.
	So I asked him, does that just mean you can't get sex under any circumstances?
	Yes.
	Okay, can they buy a hooker?
	Yes.
	Well, then they can get sex under some circumstances.
	So incels don't exist.
	Stop, bro.
	So by your logic, they wouldn't be incels.
	Now, if you have a different definition than that and you want to give it to me, I'm willing to engage with it in good faith.
	You're not arguing in good faith.
	This is a complete and utter bad thing.
	You're not making an argument at all.
	I'm saying incels exist, and you're saying, well, what do you mean by incels?
	Yes, it's important.
	No, it's not important.
	It's proprietary.
	Definition's proprietary.
	No, it's not important.
	You're making it important.
	It's not.
	Okay.
	The fact that you deny that incels exist is so silly.
	It's not what I did.
	Hold on.
	Okay, so let me read a couple chats.
	And if you guys want to continue talking about that specific thing, we will.
	Ogle, thank you for the gifted 50 memberships.
	Thank you so much, man.
	Really appreciate it.
	Guys, W's in the chat for Ogle.
	He just gifted 50 to the whatever community.
	Thank you, man.
	Appreciate it very much.
	We have a couple chats here coming through.
	We have Ogle.
	Speaking of.
	Ogle underscore glue.net donated $100.
	It wasn't meant to be a dick.
	I appreciate people who have good intentions and act on them.
	There's just the road to hell is paved.
	For a reason, is all I'm saying.
	Thanks, Ogle.
	And honestly, man, I really am here to try to help as many people as I can.
	That's really all I'm here for.
	I'm not here to win a debate and be in debate club.
	I'm trying to really help incels and people in the red pill community who feel lonely and depressed.
	But Andrew wants to play definitions.
	Yeah, I know.
	Ghost is terrible.
	I want you to clarify what you mean by definition.
	No, you want to play a definition game.
	17 years, seven lawsuits filed against me.
	Grandparents filed.
	Three protection orders.
	Three false arrests.
	Untold thousands of dollars.
	I won, but it almost killed me.
	I don't blame guys.
	He sent one in earlier, right?
	Was this the same guy who included the case number?
	No, that was stream rift.
	Well, it seems like there's some ghost.
	He had another poor experience.
	I assume this is related to divorce proceedings, child custody proceedings.
	Ghost, really sorry to hear that.
	Same, and honestly, man, I appreciate that you fight for your children.
	That's all I'm asking for: is that men who want to be with their children, they fight for it.
	I'm sorry, it's so hard.
	It shouldn't be that hard, but that's all I'm saying.
	It should happen should you have a child.
	It shouldn't be so hard.
	It shouldn't be?
	I don't think so.
	Okay, you know what?
	Great.
	This is a great red pill talking point.
	Wait, let me say.
	Okay, go ahead.
	Go ahead.
	Go ahead.
	They also don't believe that it should be so hard.
	And so they're fighting tooth and nail, especially men's rights advocacy, MRAs, men's rights advocacy groups.
	That's not so hard.
	That's one subsect of the Red Pill community.
	But again, as we established, the Red Pill content creators that we're talking about promote promiscuity.
	Well, you only mentioned two.
	I mentioned three.
	Who?
	Andrew Tate.
	Yeah.
	Fresh and Fit.
	Yeah.
	This podcast.
	This podcast does not promote promiscuity.
	But I'm trying to avoid it because I like Brian.
	No, no, no.
	This podcast does not promote promiscuity.
	Okay.
	I would like, I mean, it doesn't promote marriage.
	Yes, it does.
	Well, I don't.
	You do, but I'm not saying you do.
	Well, wait a second.
	I'm sorry.
	I thought it was about dating.
	Your whole twins wasn't enough about dating.
	It doesn't need to promote marriage.
	It doesn't promote marriage.
	Does it need to?
	Should it?
	I don't think people should get married.
	Should it?
	Well, should the dating podcast promote marriage?
	I think so.
	The dating podcast should promote marriage.
	I think so.
	Yeah.
	I think that isn't that the point of marriage.
	But you can't ask questions.
	You can't ask questions about a point.
	Isn't that the point of dating?
	Why do you date if you're not going to try to get married?
	I just can't ask, why do you date if you're not going to try to get married?
	Actually, there's a lot of people who date without getting married.
	Yeah, talking about it.
	Okay, but should you?
	I don't think so.
	Okay, well, then shut up.
	But don't you?
	No, I think I think people should get married if they want to get married.
	That's what I think.
	Yeah, so then they should be able to date without getting married?
	Sure, if they like to.
	So then what are you even bitching about?
	I'm not bitching.
	I'm saying that that podcast is Andrew Red shit.
	Andrew Tate, Fresh and Fit.
	And I'm sorry, Brian.
	Brian doesn't believe in marriage.
	And these people, and you're promoting it.
	Neither do you.
	You don't believe it either.
	Yeah, I don't believe.
	I just got married.
	You literally just said, I think people should get married if they want to.
	Okay.
	Oh, great.
	So is that a promotion of marriage?
	They should get married if they want to.
	Is that promoting marriage?
	Is it?
	Sure, Andrew.
	And answer my question.
	Are you promoting marriage by saying, hey, everybody, you should get married if you want to?
	It's not not promoting marriage.
	Well, I tell you what, it's a lot less than what I promote.
	I'm not saying you.
	Me, a staple of this show.
	Here, we got a couple more chats here, guys.
	Almost done.
	We got Jason Cassell.
	Oh, boy.
	Okay, here he goes.
	Jason Castle donated $100.
	I would keep an eye on your wife.
	Even feminist women really want real men.
	Unfortunately for you, you are a feminist, so you will probably be okay with it because you don't want to tell her what to do.
	I'd love Jason to define what a real man is, so if he can send in another $100.
	A real man is a guy who sends in another $100.
	Or a champagne pop.
	That's an option.
	You know, maybe a little liquor for you.
	Jason, a real man sends in a champagne pop.
	A little liquor, maybe I don't know if he'll get things a little more aggressive.
	And then I'll make sure that he doesn't get any.
	You'll drink.
	That's right.
	That one's very.
	All right.
	We got Red Fox here.
	Thank you, man.
	Thank you, Jason.
	Good to see you, man.
	Red Fox donated $100.
	Thank you, man.
	If your goal is to convince people away from Red Pill, why don't you just talk to Andrew and thoroughly think through your position?
	Instead, you divided the audience.
	You seem like a useful idiot.
	I will have to talk about just the red pill, but Andrew puts conversations into all kinds of different things.
	We'll talk about abortion.
	We're talking about single mothers.
	We'll talk about all this stuff, even though I'm trying to pull people out of this.
	So I'm trying to give a justification for Red Pill ideology.
	And one such justification would be that women have reproductive control, which could create incentives for men to not want to be with women in modernity.
	Now, you literally told me that is in no way, shape, or form, because I asked you five times, I wrote it down five times, and you said that that is in no way a contributing factor.
	Do you think right now anybody should ever take anything you fucking say seriously after you said that?
	Yes, absolutely.
	Okay.
	Because I'm trying to help people get out of this thing.
	You're just trying to keep people divided.
	Christopher Scott donated $100.
	Thank you, Christopher.
	Appreciate it.
	You're not here in good faith.
	You won't answer questions.
	You whine about everything and act like a child.
	Man up.
	You want to respond to that?
	No.
	Okay.
	Christopher, thank you for the super chat.
	We have Lucas here, and then we'll get back to the debate portion.
	Lucas, Pink Hatware, I have an honest question for you.
	You say you have a podcast of female guests geared towards helping men.
	Do you truly believe right-of-center men align with your positions, or is your target audience white dudes for Kamala?
	Genuine question from Lucas there.
	I appreciate the genuine question.
	I only started a month ago, but I've gotten over a million views and I've gotten a lot of messages from people who are in Red Pill and they say, you're giving me hope that all the stuff that they say out there about a man has to be six foot tall, a man has to make six figures, a man has to have six pack abs.
	Those are the only guys that women want.
	And the women I interview are definitely, especially the married ones, are saying that isn't the case.
	That's black.
	So a lot of people.
	A lot of people have said, thank you so much.
	I appreciate it.
	Fathers have reached out to me and said, hey, I appreciate what you're doing.
	My sons are going to watch your videos because I really hope they don't go down the red pill rabbit hole.
	So it has nothing to do with leftist.
	I'm not a political person.
	I mean, I am personally, but my podcast has nothing to do with politics.
	It really is, let's help these guys see that women aren't the, you know, pariahs that podcasts in the Red Pill space make it.
	You're talking about black pill descriptors?
	I'm talking about people who listen to red pill content.
	Yeah, no, but that's not where even the guys that you say to Tate, all those guys, they don't say that that's all women want.
	What they say is that if you want to heighten your chances for dating the type of woman that you want, right, you would work on male self-improvement.
	And here's things that you could do to do that.
	That is not what they say.
	Yes, it is what they say.
	They say you should, if women only want high-status men, that's what they say.
	No, they don't say only either.
	Yes, they do.
	Okay, so listen, do you understand that like if you work at a fucking Starbucks as a woman and you're dating a janitor, he's high status to you, right?
	What?
	Yeah.
	Did you hear what I said?
	If someone's working at Starbucks and they're dating a janitor, that man's high status?
	Yeah, if he's making $29 an hour as a fucking janitor and you're a barista, he would be high status, right?
	I don't know that they'd see it like that, but okay.
	Okay, well, how do they see it?
	You tell me.
	They see it as like, I like this guy.
	I don't want to date him.
	I think that's what they see.
	Okay, no, no, no.
	How do these red pillars see it?
	They see it as no one who works as a janitor will get a woman.
	No, they don't see it that way.
	They do.
	No.
	You're totally.
	They do.
	You're totally wrong on this.
	No, I'm not.
	So have I. Who?
	Which one?
	The people who write me.
	Oh, you talk about the content creator?
	I'm talking about the people who follow this.
	Yeah, I'm talking about the content creators.
	You're talking about.
	I'm talking about the actual people who listen to it, and they write me, and they say there's no way a woman would date somebody who works at McDonald's, and that's not true.
	And they are, listen, I don't know what these individuals are telling you.
	Talk to the individual.
	But I'm going to tell you what the content creators are saying.
	And by the way, I also watch what they say.
	Okay, well, here's what they say.
	Here's what Myron Gaines would agree to, and I guarantee Andrew Tate would agree to it.
	I guarantee you that both of those guys would, and I know Brian would as well.
	Okay.
	They're trying to say that, of course, men should work on male improvement.
	That doesn't mean that all women on planet Earth are only going to want you if you're in the top 1% or the top 15%.
	That's fucking absurd.
	You can watch that.
	That's absurd.
	Then tell me why every red pillar I come across believes that.
	They don't.
	They do.
	They don't.
	Every red pillar I come across believes you.
	You know what?
	Show me a message.
	I'll show you.
	Go through my TikTok.
	Just go to my TikTok right now.
	Scroll through my comments.
	No, no, no.
	Just show me a single DM.
	I didn't say DM.
	I said comments.
	Oh, in the comments.
	Yeah, so what?
	So what, that doesn't count?
	Red pillars can't comment?
	Red pillars can't.
	Oh, yeah.
	No, you're not sure.
	You're not sure they can write the words, the words out there.
	Trying to answer.
	No, you're not.
	I'm not sure that it's legitimate.
	No, because that it legitimately comes from Myron Gaines, who would not tell you that a janitor can't date a woman at Starbucks.
	That's fucking crazy.
	He would never say it in a million years.
	I know the guy.
	He would never say that shit.
	I'm telling you that when I ask women, would you date someone under six foot tall, every guy in there says, that's just not true.
	That's just not true.
	That's just not true.
	Because they believe the shit that they're seeing from this stuff.
	That's bullshit.
	No, but here's the thing.
	It's not bullshit.
	It's true.
	And this is the guy you're trying to make.
	Every guy who listens to Red Pill.
	And let me tell you something.
	The fact that you don't care about these fucking guys is a problem.
	You don't care about these people.
	I don't believe you.
	Andrew, let me tell you something.
	Do you think there's a problem with male on the lives in this country?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	What are you doing about it?
	Well, I mean, the first thing I did was advocate an anti-war position because PTSD is what led to a lot of the unaliving stats.
	That's some of the stats, but there's other people that aren't in the military that don't know what's going on.
	What was your question?
	What do you do to help these people?
	And do you think that advocating for an anti-war chance, that doesn't help people on the left-hand side?
	What happened?
	Let's say there is no more war and people still have PTSD.
	What do they do?
	Well, they get treatment.
	Okay, so you believe in treatment?
	For PTSD, there's lots of men's groups which are good for treatment.
	Do you believe in treatment for severe depression?
	In some cases.
	What cases wouldn't you advocate for it?
	It would depend on the criteria for severe.
	What do you mean?
	I can't get out of fucking bed in the morning and all I think about it is unaliving myself.
	Yeah, like the incels.
	95% of the people.
	They report that you may have to have medical.
	No, they don't.
	95% don't report that they can't get out of bed in the morning.
	95% reports.
	Oh, that's severe depression.
	Yeah, of course you do because you don't give a shit about people.
	Because it's not true.
	You don't care about people on the library.
	Literally not true.
	Do you believe in therapy?
	In some cases, therapy can be helpful.
	And in other cases, it fucks people up.
	Okay.
	What cases is therapy message?
	Well, so psychology.
	Okay, let's get into it.
	Psychology is the study of the mind.
	Can you tell me what is a disease process for you to diagnose a person with a psychological disorder?
	I don't know, but I do know that.
	Because it doesn't fucking exist.
	So what?
	That doesn't mean therapy doesn't work.
	Okay, how does it work?
	Have you looked in the studies about CBT?
	CBT, like the marijuana stuff?
	No, that's CBD.
	What is CBT?
	You don't know about cognitive behavioral therapy?
	No.
	What is it?
	Well, then what is it?
	It's one of the most successful versions of therapy that have helped a lot of people get out of depression.
	Okay, what does it do?
	It's a talk therapy that basically shows cognitive dissensivity.
	So it's a study of the mind.
	It's not a study of the mind.
	Yes.
	Well, it has to be because.
	No, it's talk therapy.
	Talk therapy doing what?
	To help you elevate your mood and get you out of bed.
	And could you go with like, oh, I don't know, an instrument and do a little test on a guy and be like, oh, your depression level was here and now it's here.
	Do you know how people answer my question and then ask me a question?
	Do you know how people typically have to deal with the department?
	No, because that's not how it's tested.
	Yeah, right, exactly.
	Because that's not how it's tested.
	It's not a fucking question.
	Because that's not how it's tested.
	Depression is a lot of people.
	You should not answer the question and then I could say.
	So here I am saying that's not how it's tested.
	Yeah, because it's not a disease.
	Depression is not a disease.
	No.
	This is why I know that out there, if you're depressed, Andrew doesn't give a shit about dispersion.
	It's not a disease.
	Andrew doesn't give a shit about you if you're depressed.
	It's not a disease.
	It's just something in your head.
	I will bet you $100 right now.
	You can get your cell phone to look up if depression is actually a classified disease.
	For the record, if you have depression, if you have depression, Andrew doesn't care.
	It's not a disease.
	Cognitive behavioral therapy doesn't work.
	Is it a disease?
	Bet $100.
	Yes.
	Okay, then go grab your phone.
	No, I'm not grabbing shit.
	You're not going to bet?
	No.
	Because it's not a fucking disease.
	So people aren't on the right.
	If you're going to talk to the audience, if you're in severe depression, Andrew doesn't care if you get help.
	He doesn't think you should get help because it's bullshit.
	Because depression isn't real, by the way.
	Depression is not a real thing.
	It's not a disease.
	It's not a disease.
	So that means you shouldn't get it treated because it's not considered a disease.
	So, okay, so I don't understand.
	How do we get from depression's not a disease, and that means that depression doesn't exist?
	You don't believe in the treatments for it.
	No, no, no.
	What I was trying to demonstrate to you is that psychology is a study of the mind.
	And because of this, you can actually do interventional treatments on people, which do more damage than good.
	Show me a study that does more damage than good.
	Do you know what?
	So you want psychologists to start studying in their own field where 60, 70% plus the studies can't be replicated and govern their own field by telling you that the studies that they're making are bad?
	Therapy isn't real to Andrew because you can't replicate it.
	Therapy is bullshit.
	Yeah, psychology is real.
	Therapy is bullshit.
	I asked him if he thinks there's a lot of people.
	Psychology is bullshit.
	Yeah, I asked him if therapy has really said some instances.
	Now it's bullshit.
	The real truth comes.
	There can be therapeutics that work, yes, but therapy by and large, in and of itself is an occupational, is bullshit.
	And psychology is bullshit, yeah.
	There are several studies that show the improvement.
	Oh, there are several studies that are done by the same people who are studying the mind.
	If you're depressed, Andrew doesn't care about you.
	I just want to point that out.
	I don't understand.
	When did I say depression is not real?
	You don't care about the treatment.
	When did I say that I don't care about the treatment?
	Because you don't believe it exists.
	Do you know that you can treat depression with things like hormone replacement therapy?
	That's one avenue.
	Yeah, so I don't understand.
	If I would recommend that you would do things like hormone replacement therapy under the guide of an actual medical doctor, right, who didn't get a fucking arts degree in psychology, by the way, but an actual MD, right, who gives you something like hormone replacement, that stuff is truly effective for treating this type of stuff.
	There can be, hang on, there can be limited instance of men's groups, which seem to help with PTSD and things like this.
	But by and large, psychology is a fucking crock of shit.
	Go ahead and demonstrate for me why it's effective.
	Okay, so if you have severe depression, maybe get some hormone therapy.
	That's what Andrew's recommending instead of going to seek out a therapist.
	Read a book.
	What's the cure rate for the severely depressed?
	CBT has significantly improved people with severe depression.
	CBT has.
	How many?
	I don't have the study in front of me, but it's significant.
	How much?
	It's significant, just like you said earlier.
	You don't know?
	You said earlier, significant.
	I doubt it.
	That was an acceptable answer before it's now too.
	I doubt it.
	Of course you do because you don't care about people with severe depression.
	I don't believe you.
	You don't care about people with severe depression.
	What are you talking about?
	You don't care about them.
	So many people in the red pill community have severe depression and you don't care.
	So many people in the red pill community have severe depression and you don't give a shit.
	So you have to understand how illogical this is, how much it doesn't make sense.
	Yeah, because it's all bullshit.
	He's saying that you should be guarded in the treatment of psychology means that I don't care about people have depression.
	Can you explain that logic to me?
	You don't care about the treatment.
	You don't believe that the treatment is real and you think the only thing they should do is go to hormone treatment therapy.
	No, I didn't say that.
	And also you think that PTSD also- When did I say the only thing?
	Also, you think that people with PTSD, it kind of works there, but if you have severe depression as an incel, it won't work there.
	Yeah, I didn't say that either.
	That's what you're saying.
	You know, you're just strawmanning me.
	Sure.
	I'll strawman until you correct me.
	Okay.
	So anyway, so are there alternative therapies which you can recommend?
	You don't even know what CBT is.
	So what therapies do you know about?
	Okay, CBT is the most popular, by the way.
	Okay, yes.
	So what?
	So you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
	Okay, so help me out here.
	What is psychology?
	It's a study.
	It's a study.
	Yeah, it's a study.
	Okay.
	Help me out here.
	Why is therapy bullshit?
	I didn't say therapy is bullshit.
	Okay.
	What I was talking about was psychology being bullshit.
	There can be therapeutics, I said, which work.
	A thousand times I've said this.
	There can be therapeutics which work.
	Which ones?
	But if you're talking about therapists.
	Which ones?
	Well, especially for people, so the ones that I'm familiar with are people who have PTSD.
	And there seem to be therapeutics which work inside of these groups who've gone through very similar experience and them being able to discuss and form communities around these types of things.
	But I'm not sure that it's because of the discussions as much as it is about the community they're forming.
	So what is your solution for the vast number of people who consume this content that are reporting severe depression?
	Well, I don't know.
	First of all, you haven't demonstrated that's the case.
	You just say, here's some studies, but no, that's not enough.
	Well, I'd have to read the studies.
	Are men unaliving themselves at an alarming rate?
	What is that?
	Oh, thanks.
	Yeah.
	That's mute.
	And that's a concern for you or no?
	Yeah, it's a big concern.
	But you don't believe therapy.
	Well, no, I didn't say again for the hundredth time, some therapeutics can work for some men who are in severe depression.
	But you know what caused a lot of this?
	What, I asked you this question earlier, and I've just, in a good faith way, answered a ton of yours.
	Can you answer this one for me now?
	What's that?
	Men who get divorced, what happens to their unaliving race?
	Yeah, there's a lot of men who get divorced, and I get it.
	And I feel for those men, and I hope that they get the help they need.
	But you don't care if they have helped them.
	But why would they need to get help if they didn't get married?
	Hence didn't get divorced.
	Well, people get divorced.
	That happens.
	Yeah, but not if they don't get married, then they don't get divorced.
	Okay, great.
	Now, when they get divorced, the primary reasons that they report this depression is that they lost custody of their kids, right?
	True.
	Yeah.
	But I thought that women having control over men's kids didn't have anything to do with why men didn't want to get into the dating market.
	That's not the reason people aren't dating.
	No, you don't think that a big contributor...
	That's not the reason people aren't dating.
	So the reason you think that people aren't dating and marrying is because men are terrified that women will divorce them and take their kids?
	No, I don't think that's the reason they're not dating.
	You don't think so?
	No.
	And you don't think that's why they're not getting married?
	No.
	Oh, okay.
	Because college-educated people are still getting married.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, okay, is it that most men?
	It's a good percentage, but it's not.
	Okay, it's a good percentage of women.
	Yes, but they're not getting men.
	I asked you.
	Yeah, but women are marrying somebody, aren't they?
	I asked men.
	But women are marrying somebody, aren't they?
	Just because you're a woman in college doesn't mean you marry a college-educated man.
	Okay, but that's still, people who are college-educated are still getting married more, including women.
	Nobody said, so if women are married, disputed this.
	If women are marrying somebody, they're marrying men.
	Your concern, I thought you were a big marriage advocate, right?
	Yeah.
	Don't you want marriage advocated for?
	I want people who really want to get married and find love to do it.
	Yes.
	So you think that these men who ordinarily would be playing into the dating market try to find a wife are not concerned whatsoever that she's going to divorce him and take his kids?
	I don't think that is the main reason people aren't dating.
	Okay, then what's the main reason?
	I didn't say dating.
	I said marriage.
	You have to get date to get married, Andrew.
	Yeah, no, I'm asking about marriage specifically.
	You have to date to get married.
	You think that a big determinant.
	Do you have to date to get married?
	What does that have to do with my question?
	The question is, you said, why aren't people getting married?
	It's like, well, I'm talking about they're not dating.
	It's juice.
	It's strawberry lemon head.
	Fucking garbage.
	It's strawberry lemonhead.
	It's not bad.
	So anyway, back to this.
	I'm asking about marriage, not about dating now.
	Okay.
	Marriage.
	We're talking about.
	Why do you think men, do you think that a lot of men don't want to get married because they're afraid that there could be a divorce and their children taking from them in the future if they get married?
	No, because I think if they're dating, I think if these people are dating, they're likely to eventually get married should the relationship progress.
	I don't think they're just staying cohabitating the way you're suggesting.
	What do you know what you want?
	The waters in frame.
	Okay.
	Is that part of the thing?
	It's just, you know.
	All right.
	Yeah.
	It's his OCD.
	It's my OCD.
	Sorry, Dad.
	So anyway, back to this.
	What I'm saying is that I think that if people are dating, the eventuality, should the relationship go well, will be marriage.
	People aren't dating.
	That's the whole point.
	So I don't think if you're dating, you're not going to say, you know what, I can't marry you because I'm afraid you're going to take my kids.
	That's why I don't think that's happening.
	So you think that they would rather stay cohabitating?
	No.
	No.
	I think if you're dating somebody long term, you're probably going to end up getting married.
	But you're going to cohabitate first, usually, right?
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	And what is the number one indicator of unaliving in men?
	Cohabitation.
	That's the reason people are unalive way more than if you're married, right?
	If you're cohabitating, unalive significantly more than when you're not.
	So what's your point?
	My point is, is that your prescription, which is more dating, more dating, more dating, and then I ask you, does that lead to more cohabitation?
	You say yes.
	It would actually be your prescription that led to more men unaliving.
	So men dating is the reason people are.
	No, it's been cohabitating.
	Which is dating, too.
	No, you just said that that would be the big side effect, which you're fine with.
	Okay, so in order for men to be a little bit more complicated.
	So my prescription would lead to less unaliving.
	What is your prescription more?
	What is your prescription?
	So I think if men are dating, that they should not cohabitate.
	And that's what red pillars, too, because they actually care about women unaliving.
	Red pills are going their own.
	Do you know about men going their own way?
	MGTOW is different.
	They're also red pills.
	By the way, MGTOW 100% doesn't want cohabitation.
	I'm not saying they do.
	They're going their own way.
	That's another part of the Red Pill community.
	Yeah.
	So they're pushing do not date.
	Well, if it's the case that you think dating leads to cohabitation before marriage and their prescription doesn't lead to that, then they're saving a lot more fucking lives than you.
	Good one, Andrew.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Me advocating for people to date is going to make people unalive themselves.
	No, well, if you think that dating leads to cohabitation and you're fine with cohabitation.
	I also don't grant that that's the reason most people aren't aliving themselves.
	So I'd like to see a study on that.
	Yeah.
	Well, actually, I can send those to you.
	Please do.
	Yeah.
	What's your number?
	I'm not going to say it on air if you're not.
	Look light in the camera.
	No, go ahead.
	Here, let's do a little prompt change here.
	And we'll maybe try to move through these a bit quicker.
	So, Raphael, you said that the Manosphere exploits male pain.
	And by extension, I suppose you would say, Andrew, exploits male pain, but offers no real healing.
	Can you just specify how, I guess?
	Yeah, so a lot of Andrew's rhetoric and content that he pushes is basically, again, demonizing women, demonizing feminism, which makes a lot of the men less willing to date women.
	And that's why a lot of people in the Red Pill community are not dating women because they actively see them as adversaries.
	They actively see them as the enemy.
	And I think a lot of Red Pill community pushes that message.
	Just one clarifying question.
	Even if that is what he was doing, can you just, just for the prompt, can you just explain how he's exploiting male pain?
	Yeah, so I think the more riled up and angry that the audiences are, the more money people make.
	That's how I think that's the exploitation.
	I make the most amount of money during chill streams.
	Okay, but it's normally angry men that follow these podcasts.
	Well, I thought you just said the angrier they are, the more money I make.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Because keeping them angry, they're going to stay around longer.
	Okay.
	So let's, do you think, do you think that like Joe Rogan, for instance, that he makes all of his money off of angry men?
	Not necessarily.
	But I'm not here to, I'm not talking about Joe.
	Well, I'm just, I thought you just said that you make more money if the audience is angry.
	The red pill community.
	Oh, it's specific to the red pill.
	Okay.
	So just to make sure that I got this right, I'm doing this.
	I think you are.
	I think Fresh Information.
	Yeah, but let's just start with me because I'm here.
	Okay.
	So what am I doing that's riling up men and making them upset?
	You continue to demonize women and that gets your audience.
	Do I demonize women or do I demonize feminists?
	Both.
	Okay, how do I demonize women?
	You say some pretty nasty things about them and I've watched a lot of your podcasts.
	And if you're going to deny it, that's fine.
	Yeah, about, okay, so I'm not going to deny that I crack jokes sometimes at the expense of a joke.
	At the expense of women, that's true, right?
	But no, I really don't demonize women as a group.
	Do you call women a lot of names on your podcast?
	I call usually a woman.
	No, you call groups of women names.
	Like feminists, yes.
	No, that's not a name.
	That's not a derogatory name, at least.
	It is to me.
	Well, of course it is.
	Because you hate feminism and you continue to demonize it, and you continue to demonize women, and you continue to demonize women on your podcast, just like Question Fit, just like Andrew Taylor.
	Do you think if men agree with me about the ideas that I have, right?
	That they want to date feminists?
	I don't think they want to date women.
	Yeah, they definitely want to date women.
	They're not.
	They're married.
	A lot of them are married.
	Maybe on your individual channel, but not on this podcast.
	How am I riling up a fucking bunch of men to not because you also come here and this is a bigger audience than your channel?
	Yeah, and they guess where they move the channel.
	Yeah, the angry men continue to move over to your channel.
	Oh, okay.
	Where all the married men are.
	Not all the married men.
	Yeah, that's where.
	Listen.
	Show me the breakdown of the menu.
	Show me the breakdown of people in your podcast that are married.
	I bet you right now you're about to see a massive sound off of people.
	I love married people.
	All married people.
	Switch over to the live chat.
	Watch this.
	Poll in the chat.
	Yeah, put it up.
	We could do a poll.
	Let's see if there's a now.
	This is this would be the whatever sample, though, but we could do it on the crucible and I guarantee T.
	I also don't necessarily think that your poll is going to be accurate, but go for it.
	Well, I agree.
	I like literally, I do agree with that.
	But the thing is, is like YouTube has much better breakdowns.
	Yeah.
	So, yeah, if you had asked me, I would have actually sent that before the debate.
	But that's what I'm saying.
	I think Fresh and Fit has that breakdown.
	I think this podcast has that breakdown.
	I think Andrew Tate has that breakdown.
	And I can tell you they're probably not married people.
	Yeah, I demonize mostly feminists.
	You demonize women too.
	You call women all kinds of names.
	I've heard it myself, especially on the solo podcast.
	Why is it, though, that I have so many female followers?
	You have so many.
	I actually do.
	Yeah.
	What's the percentage?
	About 10% for my channel.
	Whoa.
	Do you know that YouTube is male dominant?
	Red Pill is male dominant.
	No, YouTube.
	So TikTok is female dominant.
	Okay.
	It's like, I think 70% women.
	Okay.
	Right?
	YouTube, male dominant.
	Okay.
	Having a channel, right?
	Like, most women's audience is men on YouTube.
	Okay.
	The fact that I have so many female followers is actually not common for a male podcaster.
	It's actually not common.
	Well, good for you, but I'm saying that most of the Red Pill community is not that way.
	Okay, but you were who are we talking about?
	I'm talking about the Red Pill community.
	Yeah, what am I doing, though, to exacerbate this problem of men hating women?
	I've already explained that.
	Yeah, not really.
	Just say sometimes I crack jokes about them.
	I didn't say anything about jokes.
	You said jokes.
	I said you demonize women.
	Okay, well, here's the thing, too.
	I crack jokes about Mexicans.
	Yeah.
	Am I demonized?
	Your audience could be pretty racist.
	Am I demonizing?
	Your audience could be pretty racist.
	I encountered them firsthand on a first debate.
	Am I demonizing them?
	Mexicans?
	Well, if you're riling up hate for Mexicans in your chat, then yes.
	Because I got a lot of Mexicans in my chat.
	Okay, good.
	But if I'm making Mexican jokes, I'm not.
	I can't say jokes.
	You keep saying jokes.
	Because no one else is saying jokes.
	They're literally jokes.
	They're literally jokes.
	Tell me anything I've said about women broadly.
	Think of a name you possibly have called women.
	Think of any name you possibly have called a large group of women.
	Just think about it.
	A large group or all women?
	Was there a general?
	Is there a comma after large?
	Like, are you saying, say, like large women?
	No.
	What?
	What's the word?
	I'm saying women as a whole, as a generalization.
	What?
	I'm asking if you've done it.
	I mean, nothing comes to mind.
	Okay.
	Or I've said what?
	I just don't think this is in good faith.
	Well, why don't you say what you say?
	Yeah, what did I say?
	I mean, you call them sluts.
	You call them.
	No.
	Oh, yes, you do.
	No.
	Oh, yes, you do.
	No, no, no.
	In fact, slut is not a word I say often.
	I'll call individual women skanks.
	Okay.
	I don't actually say slut.
	Oh, skanks.
	It's such a funny joke.
	No, no, no.
	That's not a joke to call an individual woman a skank.
	You don't do it individually.
	Yeah, I do when I say skanks.
	Yes, I do.
	You're shocked.
	They give me one time.
	Okay, what?
	I said you call them sluts.
	I don't.
	Okay.
	So I say all women are sluts.
	You've said it before.
	It's never happened.
	I didn't say all women.
	I'm saying sluts.
	You just say sluts.
	Saying the word sluts.
	So if there's two women and they've both fucked 100 dudes, I can't say they're sluts.
	Sure.
	Sure.
	How is that demonizing women?
	Is it saying nice things about women?
	No, it's saying mean things about those two people.
	I'm not talking about two people, Andrew.
	You generalize people.
	If there's two.
	You generalize about women so much.
	And the fact that you won't even have to do that.
	Then you're generalizing about bro.
	You're generalizing things about women so.
	You're calling them in cells.
	And so do.
	Why are you calling men incels?
	I have studies that back up that they're incels.
	Oh, you have.
	So do I need a study to back up that a chick who's banging 100 dudes a slut?
	No, you're talking about one person, but you're talking about generalizing all women.
	That's something you do constantly.
	And I'm waiting for you.
	That's something that Fresh and Fit does.
	Give me the example.
	They generalize women.
	I'm fucking right here.
	Tell me what I've said about all women.
	The point is, I'm talking about the red pill community.
	I'm talking about the red pill.
	I'm talking about.
	Yes, and I did.
	I've already said what you've done.
	When.
	But you're denying it for some time.
	Tell me when I've ever said all women.
	Do you want to go through all your damn podcasts, man?
	You think if I did it, you'd have an example since it was pertinent.
	I've seen you do it.
	So yes.
	When?
	I don't know, two weeks ago, Andrew.
	What the fuck?
	I've watched a lot of your bullshit.
	I've seen so much.
	I'll tell you what.
	This is fair.
	What type of content do I do?
	Mostly political.
	Mostly political.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And what is the number one type of show that I do?
	You do debates, but I say the topic you debate the most, if it's not Christianity, it's feminism.
	So you think the most popular content on my channel is debates?
	I think so.
	Okay, followed by political commentary.
	Sometimes you have political debates as well.
	We had a political debate.
	Yeah, I know, but you just said political.
	Most of my channel is political commentary.
	I think you consider yourself a political commentator.
	That's what you say every time you introduce yourself.
	Well, no, that's not what I say.
	I say I'm a political commentator.
	And what?
	I don't know what the and is.
	Political satirist.
	Sure, politics, as I said.
	Political satirist.
	Okay.
	So am I wrong about you?
	Am I wrong about you being more political focused?
	Are you making a different point?
	No, what I'm saying to you is that I don't actually think that you've watched my show.
	I have.
	I don't think so.
	I don't think so.
	I don't believe it.
	Then what is the thing my show is the most famous for?
	The one show that we do that is the most famous thing we do.
	Isn't it debating?
	Nope.
	Not even in the same universe.
	Then what is it?
	It's the TikTok invasions.
	Yeah, that's what made us popular.
	But that's.
	Maybe that made you popular at one point, but that's not what you're doing consistently.
	Every week, you're mostly doing debates.
	Every week?
	Listen, I do, I actually many weeks do less debates than I do invasions.
	Okay.
	My point still stands.
	And by the way, political content?
	Do you deny that the red pill community demonizes women?
	Yeah, but I want.
	No, no, no.
	I will.
	I will.
	No, no, no, no.
	Answer it now.
	No, no, no more caveats.
	No.
	No, I want to.
	Does the red pill community demonize women?
	Yeah, yeah, no.
	But I will.
	It doesn't.
	It doesn't.
	No.
	Okay.
	No, I don't think so.
	So I want to finish this real quick.
	Have you actually watched my show?
	Yes.
	When?
	When's the last time you watched it?
	I don't know.
	This week.
	I obviously saw what you said to Pearl.
	I obviously saw what you said to that guy in the ID.
	Yeah, well, you couldn't have seen that on my channel.
	You demonized.
	You saw it on her channel, right?
	So did you demonize red pill communities this week on your channel or not?
	No, I don't think so.
	When you call them degenerates?
	I don't think I called red pillars degenerates.
	You literally said red pill content creators are degenerates, including Myron Gaines.
	You even said you had disagreements with Brian.
	You even mentioned Brian by name in that same statement.
	Do you remember when I said that there's a difference between the red pill and what?
	No, I don't know.
	Content creators.
	You mentioned Myron and Brian by name.
	Yeah, so I'm talking about content creators.
	Those are content creators.
	That's not the red pill.
	The red pill is a decision created.
	You said red pill content creators are degenerates.
	You're not talking about the packet being a degenerate.
	You're talking about the creators, right?
	So the creators are degenerates.
	So, you mentioned Myron Gaines and you mentioned Brian by name.
	I didn't.
	Yeah, so here's the thing: again, if you're talking about Red Pill content creators, there's a lot more of them than fucking Brian.
	We're talking about the big ones.
	I don't care about the other ones.
	We're talking about the big ones.
	We're talking about the ones that have the most reach, and that's these people.
	They had the most reach.
	What matters is who's informing their opinions?
	The content creators.
	No, no, just informing the content creators' opinions.
	I don't care.
	That creators matters.
	No, they're disseminating the message.
	That's what matters.
	No, they're disseminating the message.
	They're disseminating the message.
	You're not getting it.
	It doesn't.
	They're disseminating the message.
	I don't care if you learned about Nazism through something else.
	If you're disseminating it, you're still disseminating.
	If there's hundreds, hundreds, and hundreds of Red Pill content creators, which there are, all you're doing is pointing to three creators you don't like.
	The biggest ones.
	No, first of all, the combination of all other Red Pill creators would be bigger than these three biggest ones.
	Okay, sure, but they're the biggest ones.
	No, they're not.
	The combination of the message that you're talking about.
	Then why'd you highlight those two?
	It's not the biggest.
	Then why'd you highlight Myron Gaines?
	You did on your own show.
	Can you pull it up right now?
	I'm telling you why we're also talking about Pearl.
	I'm talking about when you were talking to that guy on the iPad, you said your sound's low.
	If you don't remember, it's because you lack of sleep.
	But you were talking to a guy, I think it was on Tuesday on your own show.
	You said red pill content creators are degenerate.
	I don't know what the context is.
	It's literally that.
	There is no context.
	Of course, you're trying to weasel out of this.
	Of course, you're trying to weasel out of this.
	Fuck what I know.
	Do you want to pull it up?
	Actually, I do.
	Okay, let's show his channel.
	What show is it?
	Whatever you were talking to that guy on the iPad, whoever that homie was that you were talking to, I don't know who he was.
	I've never seen him before, but you were on the show.
	I think it was Tuesday, and you said this exactly.
	I would love to show you how to show it.
	I was on my show.
	Yes, it was on the crucible.
	I would love to show this.
	Okay.
	I would love to add this poll.
	Let's show it.
	Can we pull it up?
	Is it behind your paywall?
	I don't know.
	I don't think so.
	I saw it.
	You saw it?
	Well, if somebody in the audience can send us the clip of it, you want me to do it?
	Yeah.
	Sure.
	While we're doing that, Mary, can you pull up?
	We did the poll.
	We sent the clip.
	We had 2,200 people answer the poll.
	Are you married?
	Is the question.
	38%, 38% say yes.
	62% say no, just because you guys were curious if the audience was married.
	That's actually more honest than I thought it would be.
	38%.
	All right.
	Here, I'll read some chats while you're looking at that.
	We have, and guys, if you want to get a chat in, $100 for a TTS.
	If you want to get a little message in here while we're getting that pulled up, we have Lucas.
	Oh, wait.
	It's two?
	Lucas donated $100.
	What was your first one, Lucas?
	Two slash dot dot.
	My old man, who MD slash PhD in biology, very much a red pill man.
	Everything that is bandied about these days in the red pill community, I heard from my old man some 25 years ago, almost verbatim.
	Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about with this shit, but I can't get a logical argument out of him.
	He just makes emotional appeals.
	Lucas, was your first message via YouTube Super Chat?
	Because I don't see the first one, but thank you for that.
	Do you find it?
	Not yet.
	We'll give him time.
	We got chat.
	Jason Castle donated $100.
	Hey, chat, is it too loud?
	Pretty simple, just kidding.
	Brian, damn, that's crazy.
	Damn, Jason, what the fuck?
	Is the TTS a little too loud, chat?
	Let me know if the TTS is a little too loud.
	We have Lucas with his follow-up.
	Thank you, Lucas.
	Thank you, Jason.
	Appreciate it.
	Chat, is it too loud?
	Let us know if it's too loud.
	We got another one coming in here in just a sec.
	Okay.
	Lucas donated $100.
	Thank you, Lucas.
	Of course.
	Like a young, dumb, naive, 20-something-year-old blue pill moron.
	Like yourself, I completely ignored the old man until I learned the hard way.
	Do you want to respond to Lucas?
	He called you.
	I'm not going to scroll through it, but do you remember this conversation?
	Yeah, do you know how long ago that was?
	A couple days ago.
	Two years ago.
	Okay, so this says two days ago for the record.
	Yeah, the clip got posted two days ago, but the conversation was from two years ago.
	So your channel posted a clip from two days ago where you said red pill communities are degenerate.
	Well, I don't know.
	I don't even know if that was said.
	I'm just explaining to you that that's a really old conversation.
	You can play the audio on.
	I'm trying to find the time.
	It's a long clip, obviously.
	Well, I think it's two years ago, or maybe a year and a half ago.
	I'm not sure.
	Yo, Rick, Rickus Morton.
	But I'm pretty sure it's not from the last year.
	McDonovan.
	While you're looking for that, we have Charlie B. Can I send you the link to that?
	Charlotte donated 100.
	Oh, God.
	More people today are medicated.
	More people today are in therapy.
	Thank you, Charlie.
	How is it working?
	Explain the difference between anxiety/slash depression and the felling of the human condition.
	Okay, so yeah, we're definitely seeking more help than we ever have, which is why it seems like we're overly medicated, but it's because people are actually like trying to get the help for the first time.
	Anxiety is more a general worry about the future.
	This is a very general thing.
	And depression is more of a general overwhelming sadness that is more than just the emotion.
	It's like you literally can't function in society.
	You just feel absolutely down.
	All right.
	Yeah.
	It's really interesting to me that Real Terran donated $100.
	Thank you, Real Terry.
	A good chunk of Andrew's viewers are red-pilled men and women, and he does more for his audience than 99% of creators out there.
	Watch his reverse grift streams as one example.
	Yeah, he has no idea.
	He's never watched the show.
	Right.
	I just pulling up a clip from the show you said, right?
	Yeah, you watched a clip that from how long ago?
	Two days ago.
	I'll just read that.
	it's not from two days ago on this lucas do i mean i got posted two days ago but you You are creating a straw man character of what the red pill is.
	As Andrew said, the intellectual godfather of the so-called red pill Rolls Mossy is in a 30-year marriage with a 20-something-year-old married daughter.
	For that matter, I would consider my oh, he continued it on.
	Oh, he can he continued.
	Okay, so the super chats that were marked two and three is following this super chat.
	The ones that came in through Streamlabs, where he said, my old man is very much a red pill man.
	And then three, yeah.
	Thank you, Lucas.
	Appreciate that.
	Sorry for the confusion there with the ordering on these.
	Appreciate your support, man.
	Why don't we swap the chair, Mary?
	Can you just get a chair?
	Because your chair is a little squeaky.
	Swap a chair while he's trying to find this.
	CBT is BS.
	When I first noticed I had issues doing things I enjoy, I turned to the VA.
	Psychology there used CBT and told me to just go out and do the things I enjoyed.
	There's nothing about how to do it.
	I'm not 100% PNT disabled because of this worthless crap.
	Brian S. Thank you for the YouTube super chat, man.
	Really appreciate it.
	Brian, I'm sorry for that experience, but I highly recommend a book called Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns.
	It's a really good book on CBT, and it's something you can enact on your own before you even seek therapy.
	But it is something that I highly recommend you read.
	All right.
	Raphael, we're going to swap chairs because this chair has been a little bit squeaky.
	It's crazy to me with all this treatment available that when people were coming back shell-shocked from world wars, they were unaliving themselves less than they are right now at your age.
	Here, just pass it to her.
	Okay.
	Here we have Joe.
	But True.
	Joe, thank you for the super chat.
	Appreciate it.
	Just a blank one.
	Appreciate it.
	We have Guy Sneedon.
	If you tuck that in.
	I don't date because 30 foes are trash.
	Conservative women are hard to find.
	Brian and Andrew are awesome.
	Guest, give your blue-haired wife my number.
	I'll show you what I'll show what a real man is.
	Do you want to respond to Guy Sneeden here?
	And does your wife have blue hair?
	She doesn't.
	She has blonde hair, beautiful blonde hair.
	But I will say that the fact that you're calling women 304s indicates that you're probably single.
	And I doubt you could pleasure a woman.
	Wow.
	Guy Sneeden says you're probably signal incapable of pleasuring a woman, incapable of getting her.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	Guy Sneeden, if you want to respond, we got Skirba Derby.
	Exactly.
	Emotional appeal after emotional.
	Yeah, I'm here for an emotional appeal.
	This guy has been making emotional appeal after emotional appeal, but can't back it up with logic.
	In fact, he said F logic.
	That's where he lost the audience.
	He won't answer questions.
	Dude, you know that guys are bent towards logic, so why don't you make an effing argument?
	The argument is a lot of red pillars are isolated.
	They're angry.
	They blame women and they're dating less.
	I'm trying to help them stop doing that.
	And red pill content is pushing them further down the radar.
	Erroneous.
	Erroneous.
	It's not erroneous.
	It's literally factual.
	Just so you know, that's still not actually an argument.
	That's just a statement.
	Well, it's a true statement.
	But it doesn't tell us anything.
	We got to get back to it.
	So were you able to find it?
	I'm going to move on to it.
	No shock.
	You couldn't find it.
	It's there, Andrew.
	Give me another 10 minutes.
	How about that?
	We're in the middle of a list.
	No, he's saying this bullshit, like trying to weasel out of it because he doesn't.
	You know what, Brian?
	He doesn't want you to hear it.
	That's the reason.
	He doesn't want you to hear it.
	You're a fucking degenerate.
	He doesn't want you to hear it.
	Many times I've told him to his fucking face.
	He's a degenerate.
	So you don't deny that you said red pill content.
	You know what I told you?
	Hold on.
	So you don't deny that red pill content creators are degenerate.
	Do you know what a degenerate?
	You just said it, bro.
	You just said it.
	Bro.
	Do you know what a degenerate is?
	I have premarital sex.
	He thinks I'm a degenerate.
	I think that's a good idea.
	And red pill content promotes that.
	You also promote it.
	You're a fucking degenerate.
	Okay, I'm a degenerate.
	Wait, are you against premarital?
	Like, you promote it.
	I think red pill people are.
	That's what I'm saying.
	You don't believe in red pill communities.
	Oh, my God.
	How many times do I have to tell you this?
	But he's not, you're not red pill.
	I'm not a red pillar.
	You advocate for them.
	No.
	You literally go on your show.
	Advocate for the red pill.
	Not for red pill content creator.
	Myron Gaines having sex out of marriage?
	Fucking degenerate.
	I told him that to his face.
	And what message is?
	Hang on, stop, bro.
	My turn.
	Shut up.
	Shut the fuck up.
	And what messages are they promoting?
	And what messages are they promoting to their audience?
	When you're done filibustering, I'll be aware of that.
	And what messages are they promoting to their audience?
	Okay.
	One message.
	Go ahead, Andrew.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So here, just so you know, I've called most of these guys.
	Hey.
	Okay, most of these guys, but especially fucking progressives like you degenerates, because all of you who promote sex outside of marriage are fucking degenerates, from my view.
	Have you ever had sex out of marriage?
	Do you understand?
	Do you have sex out of marriage?
	Oh, so you're a degenerate?
	I was.
	Okay.
	Good for you.
	You saved yourself.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Did you have something else there to go with like your little did you own me?
	Did you feel like you owned me on that one?
	A little bit a little bit.
	New prompts.
	New prompts, dear guy.
	You feel like you got me on that?
	Yeah.
	And was Andrew Wilson completely consistent again?
	So, okay, in your TikTok buy, or this might be on your Instagram, you say, masculinity dating and what women actually want, unfiltered.
	What do women actually want?
	I don't have a prescription for what women want.
	I ask them what they want and they tell me.
	That's all.
	And I share that information.
	That's it.
	I don't tell them anything.
	I don't prescribe anything.
	Well, okay, I'm not going to.
	Let's go over some of the other prompts then.
	You have men.
	Healthy masculinity is expansive, not rigid.
	Can you just define what you mean by that, I guess?
	Where is that?
	What did I say that it was in one of the, you said positive claims I would make in the debate.
	Healthy masculinity is expansive, not rigid.
	What do you mean by that?
	Yeah, I just don't subscribe to the idea that there's only one way to be considered quote-unquote masculine.
	So like traditional gender rules, you would say traditional generals, you can be masculine and traditional general, but I think if you're not, that doesn't necessarily mean you're less masculine.
	For example, if your wife makes more money than you, I don't think that makes you less masculine.
	Okay.
	Andrew, so the positive claim he makes is healthy masculinity is expansive, not rigid.
	Is that something you want to bite on?
	Yeah, but you have to get into semantics.
	I don't want to get into semantics.
	That I can't get a position.
	No, because for the sake of the conversation, will you get into semantics?
	I hear what you're saying, but.
	Do me a solid.
	But I get it.
	Are you my homie?
	We're homies.
	Are we homies?
	We're homies.
	What I'm saying is Andrew has these, does these tactics, man.
	It's not about, no, because, but he's doing bad faith arguments, Brian.
	I appreciate it.
	But he's doing bad faith arguments.
	He's doing bad faith arguments.
	I haven't even made it.
	I'm going to like the story.
	You will.
	I know you.
	So I'm going to make, you're mad because I'm, you're trying to stop me from preemptively making an argument.
	Okay, let's get into it.
	Okay.
	Let's do some answers.
	I just like the lemonade, by the way.
	I just want to know what you mean by masculinity.
	What does that mean to you?
	I don't have a solid definition.
	My general definition of masculinity, and it's very loose, is basically men doing the right thing because it's the right thing.
	And it's not the best definition because I don't think masculinity can be so defined.
	What?
	That's my definition.
	Men doing the right thing because it's the right thing.
	Correct.
	What's the right thing?
	Protecting people, being good to people.
	That's what I think is masculine.
	Protecting people and being good to people.
	Okay, but what does good to people mean?
	What does that mean?
	I'm not getting into morality.
	I'm not getting it.
	I'm not even getting it.
	But that's where it goes.
	That's where it goes, Andrew.
	That's where it goes.
	No, I'm just asking what this means.
	I gave you my definition.
	Move on.
	Provide your definition.
	Provide whatever it is you want to do.
	Yeah, so I can give you my definition of masculinity, but you haven't given me yours.
	I did.
	Go for it.
	So I just want to make sure I got it right then, and I'm going to write down every word.
	Masculinity is men doing the right thing.
	Because it's the right thing.
	Not for any sort of transaction or something.
	Men doing the right thing because it's the right thing.
	Yes.
	Now, I need you to understand this.
	I know that you think that these are sneaky debate tricks, right?
	Even though I've sat across this table.
	This, by the way, is the first time ever that I've been in studio and had a one-on-one debate where it's even been slightly heated.
	And usually we start serious where it's been a 1v1, where it's even been, well, no, with two degenerates.
	That was the only other time.
	Literally, that was the only other time in a 1v1 where it was even really heated.
	Never gotten heated.
	Never gotten heated, dude.
	It was pretty tame.
	No, I'm serious.
	You've never gotten heated.
	No, what did I just say?
	Can you even read it?
	In a one-on-one debate, it's never been heated.
	No, no, no.
	What did I fucking see?
	You don't even listening, dude.
	You don't even listen.
	This is the one that's in the middle.
	I said in this studio, this is the only 1v1 that I can think of where it's even gotten heated.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	That's the case.
	And usually it's because I clarify everything before we start talking about it, so we're not talking past each other.
	Yeah, because you love definitions.
	It's your favorite thing in the whole world.
	Dude, how do we know what we're talking about?
	You know what we're talking about.
	No, I don't know.
	Yes, you do.
	Okay.
	Masculinity is men doing the right thing.
	Okay, well, I think the right thing is for you to fucking, I don't know, punch yourself in the fucking dick.
	Now do it.
	Great.
	So you're feminine.
	You're feminine.
	Okay.
	Punch yourself in the dick or you're feminine.
	Yeah, okay.
	Yeah, because you're feminine.
	Good point.
	Good point.
	You're fucking stupid, dude.
	You have to tell me what these things mean.
	Good point.
	Tell me what it means.
	What does it mean?
	What is the right thing?
	What's the main definition?
	What is the right thing, bro?
	What is the right thing, bro?
	I'm not doing it.
	What is your definition?
	What is the right thing?
	Tell me your definition.
	You haven't told me this.
	Tell me your definition.
	Tell me your definition.
	I think that masculinity is when men are music definition.
	Tell me your definition.
	I just did.
	I think masculinity is when men beat up women and kick them while they're down.
	That's the only way to be masculine enough to be in the middle of the day.
	You say that in jest, but a lot of truth is said in jest.
	It's 100%.
	A lot of truth is said in jest.
	You got to fucking jump.
	A lot of truth.
	A lot of trust.
	Fuck them up.
	You know, you got to really get in there.
	Yeah, joking like that is, oh, that's coming from a real place for you.
	That's coming from a real place.
	That's coming from a real solid place.
	I mean, I would give you a definition.
	No, that's coming from the soul, Andrew.
	Yeah, I'd give you a definition.
	Coming from the soul.
	You can ask me questions.
	That's coming from the soul.
	You can't ask me questions.
	Oh, man.
	You really, you meant that.
	You meant that.
	Yeah, but you got to kick them when they're down.
	Yeah, of course.
	You can't let the bitches up.
	Yeah, it's just a joke, right?
	Yeah, it's just a joke.
	A lot of truth is said in jest, Andrew.
	Yeah.
	Is it?
	Absolutely.
	Like when you were before the show started, you were making cage shows about yourself.
	It's everywhere you tried to tell me something.
	I never once did that.
	Oh, come on, dude.
	Did he just really make that up just to say some bullshit?
	Come on, dude.
	Did I miss something?
	No, everybody missed it because it never fucking happened.
	What I'm pointing out to you, right, is when you're bad faith like this, I'm going to be bad faith back.
	Okay, go for it then.
	You've been bad faith this whole time.
	There's no, bro, asking your bad faith definitely.
	Asking you about your proprietary fucking definition.
	I'm not giving you my definition.
	I'm not going to go into morality because then it becomes a good idea.
	We're not even going into morality.
	I'm just asking you what good is.
	When you ask somebody what is good, is that not morality?
	I define the fucking thing by what is good.
	I have to ask you what good is, you fucking dolt.
	But that's what I'm saying.
	You're not in the box.
	I'm not going to get into morality with you because it's the same bullshit every time with you.
	This is your favorite argument: morality.
	You should just look at the camera and monologue, dude.
	I will.
	You're not debating.
	You're just screaming.
	I got a prompt change then.
	Well, he doesn't want to define masculinity.
	He only wants to, you know, pick apart mine.
	You haven't even defined it.
	Sure.
	You just give it to your proprietary definition.
	Yeah, it's your positive claim.
	Yeah, but I have to define it for him.
	I defined it.
	I have to define it for him.
	I defined it.
	You didn't, dude.
	Did he define it?
	No.
	No.
	It makes it circular.
	He's not satisfied with it.
	Listen here.
	It's circular.
	Masculinity is men doing the right thing.
	That fucking doesn't tell us anything because I don't have a very prescriptive version of masculinity.
	That is my joke.
	It's fine.
	So then it would be fine for me to ask follow-up questions about what the right thing is.
	I don't want to get into morality.
	But you don't want to tell me any fucking answers to any questions.
	Here, well, if you don't want to get into the morality, can you say you said it's healthy masculinity is expansive.
	Andrew's got to take a little smoke break here.
	A little smoke.
	Because Andrew thinks masculinity is very rigid.
	If you don't fall within these guidelines, if you don't, if you don't follow.
	Be nice.
	Come on.
	If you don't fall within these certain guidelines, you're not masculine.
	That's Andrew's take.
	Okay.
	Well, while Andrew's getting a little smoke break, we are going to let some chats come through.
	By the way, guys, actually, you know what?
	Pull up Twitch because we need to do a little Twitch shout out.
	Guys, go to Twitch.
	Pull up the actual Twitch tab in the window tab.
	Guys, go to twitch.tv/slash whatever.
	If you're enjoying the stream, drop us a follow and a prime sub if you have one.
	There's 1,100 viewers over there on Twitch, and I think we got about 9,000 on YouTube.
	If you guys can, just open up another tab.
	If you have an Amazon Prime account, you can link it to your Twitch.
	It's a quick, free, easy way to support the show every single month.
	Fenris, Tempest, thank you for the Prime Sally, thank you for the tier one.
	Light Tarot, thank for the Prime sub.
	It's been Chino, thank for the Prime Warped, thank for the Tier 1.
	Guys, it's been about two seconds since the last Prime sub came in, and I think it got bugged.
	I think it's bugged, boys.
	Also, drop us a follow, follow us over there.
	And then, also, guys, if you want to support the show without YouTube and Apple taking their cut, you can do so through Venmo, Cash App, whatever pod.
	Andrew's coming right back.
	He just went out for a quick smoke.
	Also, if you're enjoying the stream, like the video.
	But Venmo Cash App, whatever pod, 100% of your contribution goes towards us.
	YouTube takes 30%.
	And then if you're sending a chat in through the YouTube app on an iPhone or iPad or other Apple device, Apple takes 30%.
	So if you're sending in a $200 super chat, and usually the way you can tell if it's from an Apple device, if it's like $99.99, that's usually the indicator.
	So if you send in a $200 soup chat through Apple or, well, through an Apple device on YouTube app, they're taking $102 of that.
	They're taking more than 50% of your contribution for what?
	Streamlabs.com, streamlabs.com slash whatever.
	We're doing $100 reads and TTSs if you want to get those in.
	Let's see what else.
	Oh, also, guys, join the Discord.
	Discord.gg slash whatever.
	It's really great.
	Raphael is actually a longtime member on the Discord.
	He enjoys all the misogynistic memes that we post there.
	I'm just kidding.
	We don't post any misogynistic memes.
	We post a bunch of feminist stuff on there.
	Shop.whatever.com.
	If you want to get yourself some merch, be sure to check it out.
	Andrew is about to return.
	All right, give me a fucking shot.
	He needs, just bring the ball of whiskey, Andrew.
	Do you want the bottle?
	Just drink from the bottle.
	Get him the bottle.
	Give him the ball of whiskey.
	Let's see if we have, oh, we got some chats.
	Hang on, hang on.
	Let me just try this again.
	Yes.
	Go ahead.
	If you are talking about something and making a prescriptive ought, in this case, masculinity, right?
	What it is and what men should be doing with it.
	I didn't say this should be.
	I said that's my worldview.
	Okay, your worldview.
	Great.
	If we dive into your worldview, right?
	And you have a proprietary definition.
	This definition meets no definition masculinity I've ever seen in my life.
	I know.
	Okay.
	Yes.
	So it's proprietary.
	You agree?
	Yes.
	So it's perfectly rational and logical for me to go through your proprietary definition so that I can make sure it makes fucking sense, right?
	I don't care if you think it makes sense.
	Give me a fucking shot, dude.
	I can't.
	Dude, give him the bottle.
	You want the bottle?
	How much is left?
	Probably that chatter, the one chatter is actually right.
	You might be the dumbest fucking person I've ever debated on this podcast.
	And you're the most emotional wreck of a person I've ever heard.
	You'd be emotional too.
	It's like arguing with a fucking kindergartner, dude.
	You don't even know what you're talking about.
	You like literally don't know what you're talking about.
	I don't care.
	The whole point of the problem.
	I don't care.
	The whole point of the problem.
	Masculinity isn't a rigid thing, and that's why I keep it very open.
	Yeah, okay.
	It's not a rigid thing, but that doesn't tell us what it is.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Let's see here.
	We'll do a couple chats here really quick and we'll get right back into a prompt.
	We have Red Fox.
	Thank you, Red Fox.
	Appreciate it.
	Red Fox donated $100.
	Andrew holds a deep veneration for women and their contributions to the people who are in the world.
	We talk about it all the time.
	Deep veneration.
	Feminist, what is the role and duty of women?
	In fact, my religion, we venerate the Theotokos.
	You know, that would be the mother of God.
	But, you know, the thing is, is even though I talk about this all the time, discuss how much we need matrons in society, how important it is, I just hate all fucking women.
	No, you see them as just breeders.
	That's what you see them as.
	Yeah, well, it's just breeders.
	That's what he says.
	Do you think women have any duty to no?
	No.
	No.
	Do men never?
	Sorry.
	Yeah, no.
	Yeah.
	Men don't have duties?
	No, I think by my definition, they should do the right thing, but that's my voice.
	That would be a duty, fucking dolt.
	Okay, fine.
	So they have the duty to do the right thing?
	Let's not do insults.
	No, let's do insults.
	What duties do men have to do the right thing?
	That's my worldview.
	So they have duties?
	What duties do women have?
	None.
	None.
	Okay.
	Okay, we have a couple chats coming through here.
	We got, where is it?
	George.
	It drives you insane.
	Yes, it does.
	Drives him insane.
	Jordan Flores donating $100.
	Andrew, I'm sorry.
	As a member of the Mexican community, we don't claim the Fender General Vivuel crucible.
	Are you part of that?
	Maybe I'm half Mexican.
	You could be Puerto Rican.
	I'm half Mexican.
	Okay.
	But I would imagine he's apparently Jordan Flores is the representative of all Mexicans who've ever lived.
	He works on the consulate.
	Yeah, no, he absolutely is probably another one of these single people that are angry.
	So it's fine.
	Okay.
	I mean, you're married and seem pretty angry.
	Between the two of us, I'm the one that seems angry.
	Yeah, you just seem pretty angry.
	Between the two of us?
	Yes.
	Nice job, dude.
	Shouldn't you defer to that then since you love Moo studies so much?
	I've interviewed.
	You've interviewed a lot.
	I think 2,000.
	Jeez.
	2,000 women.
	I know.
	That's a lot.
	That was kind of misogynistic.
	And I've been here.
	What have you learned?
	I've been here for like half of that, by the way.
	Why did you say geez when I interviewed 2,000?
	I'm just saying.
	That's all she shows.
	That seems a bit misogynistic.
	How so?
	It just seems a bit like, wow, you had to talk to 2,000 women.
	I'm just surprised at the shit number of women you've talked to.
	No, the way it came up.
	The way it came up was it was like, I'm sorry.
	It wasn't that.
	I'm just asking you what you've learned in those 2,000 interviews.
	What have you learned?
	From them?
	Yeah.
	Not a lot.
	About women.
	Not much.
	No?
	Just kidding.
	I've learned a lot.
	Yeah?
	I've learned a ton.
	What have you learned?
	Share something.
	Ask me at the end of the show.
	Okay, I'll tell you.
	I don't want to.
	I shouldn't be too involved in the convo.
	Hey, you donated $100.
	The red pill is the problem.
	It's a symptom of a larger issue where men have had negative experiences with modern women and are still villainized.
	We find solidarity in our collective awakening.
	Thank you, Heyyu.
	This is exactly what I think is an honest assessment of what happens.
	I said in my opening statement that red pill communities prey on men's rejection.
	They prey on men's anger.
	And I think that's true.
	And I think they do find community in Red Pill.
	I really do.
	And I think that's why they flock there.
	But I don't think it's effective for them.
	I think it's keeping them lonely, isolated, and angry.
	And they're not dating.
	So if it's not working, let's look for an alternative.
	That's all I'm saying.
	Here, let's get into that.
	What's the alternative?
	That's what we've been trying to get into this whole time.
	You're trying to do some other bullshit semantic definition, game.
	Okay, okay.
	Listen, me asking you what masculinity is, and you're saying fulfilling the general societal good fucking is meaningless.
	It is meaningless.
	Okay, because I didn't come here to necessarily talk about that.
	I came here to talk about the red pill community is destroying men's communities.
	Debates are about worldviews.
	No, debates, you play debate club, and I'm not here for that.
	Dude, it's not debate club.
	You try to win debates.
	You try to win debate points.
	Like there's some judges out there.
	That's what you do.
	You're not trying to have a real conversation about shit.
	Yeah, I agree that I want my worldview to win, and I want my worldview to win a debate.
	But the thing is, it's like, I don't even know what your worldview is because you can't explain it.
	So your worldview is the red pill is working for men?
	Is that your worldview?
	Well, that's what we're here arguing.
	Okay, if you want to do an internal critique of Christian ethics and my worldview, I'm happy to do that.
	We came here to talk about the red pill and manosphere community.
	Yes.
	And so when you're asking me about the red pill, what have I told you it is?
	You said it's a data packet.
	Yes.
	And so I can utilize, and Christians can utilize this data packet as well, right?
	And we can introduce it through Christian ethics in a prism that helps men, right?
	Only through Christian ethics?
	That's what I would prescribe.
	Yeah, but most people in red pill communities aren't Christian Orthodox.
	They don't have to be Christian Orthodox.
	Okay, well, the point is, is the Red Pill community helping men or is it hurting?
	Hold on.
	Is the Red Pill community helping men or is it hurting them, in your opinion?
	Ultimately, I think it's more helpful than it's bad.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	But I would like to know what the alternative is.
	Turn off the red pill, at least for now.
	That's the only thing I can do.
	Yeah, but what's the alternative to it, though?
	I don't know.
	Consider trying to ask a girl out.
	Maybe.
	Yeah, they never thought of that.
	They're not doing it, Andrew.
	Yeah, dude.
	Bro, you literally just said with that chatter that you agreed with his definition of what the problem was.
	I didn't say anything about that.
	The way he said the problem was, which is that they had bad experiences with women.
	Correct.
	That means they're asking them out.
	Not necessarily.
	Then how are they having bad experiences with them?
	Maybe they're not getting success on dating apps.
	I don't know.
	That doesn't necessarily mean they're going up to women in the street and asking them out.
	So they're having issues approaching women?
	Yes.
	They're having issues.
	Rating with women.
	Yes, men feel rejected.
	So what's the alternative?
	The alternative is hopefully more positive content coming out.
	I hope my channel helps.
	I hope other channels help.
	It's not telling me anything.
	What's the alternative?
	I don't have the definite alternative, but I think the red the point is the red pill community is hurting me.
	The red pill community is hurting people.
	That's all I'm talking about.
	You said you were here to discuss the alternatives.
	I didn't say, when did I say I was here to discuss?
	I literally just wrote down alternative because you said, right, I have an alternative.
	I said, seek out alternatives.
	What's the alternative?
	I don't know, but there's not the red pill.
	If it's not working, get away from it.
	If it's poison, stop taking it.
	That's the first fucking step.
	Would you agree?
	Not a single alternative.
	If you're taking, like I said, you haven't demonstrated.
	There's positive masculinity podcasts out there that I would recommend listening to.
	Whoa, really?
	Wait, wait.
	Positive masculinity?
	Okay, what is that?
	Not the rigid sense that the red pill prescribes.
	You can counter the red pill.
	Anything?
	Okay, I'll just call it blue pill for the sake of your stupid definitions.
	I'll call it blue pill.
	Listen to blue pill.
	What is that?
	The opposite of red pill.
	How about that?
	Okay, well, what are they saying?
	They're saying don't take the red pill.
	That's what they're saying.
	Okay, got it.
	So let me ask you a question.
	This is a cool red pill talking point.
	I wonder if you can refute it.
	Do you think that men care about body count?
	I think some of them do.
	Yeah, would you?
	No.
	No, you wouldn't care?
	I wouldn't.
	If she had fucked 20,000 guys?
	If I loved her, I wouldn't care.
	You wouldn't care.
	30?
	There's no number.
	If I love somebody, I don't care.
	I don't care.
	Yeah.
	If she had sucked 20 guys' dicks at once?
	Do you think that's going to change my answer?
	I'm just curious.
	I've already answered it.
	If I cared about somebody, I don't care.
	No matter what.
	Correct.
	And also, I don't have an STD.
	I don't care.
	Do you think it's a legitimate preference that men have that they don't want women with high body counts?
	I think any preference is legitimate.
	If somebody has a preference, they have a preference.
	So do you think that that's a legitimate preference?
	Sure.
	I said any preference is legitimate.
	Remember, I said that.
	And then what do you think most men would consider a high body count to be?
	I have no clue.
	I have no clue.
	How would I know that?
	Okay, fair enough.
	Do you think that most men would maybe consider 10 would probably be pretty high?
	Not necessarily, no, not in 2025, no.
	You don't think so?
	I don't.
	You don't think that men would have a preference against being with a woman who's fucked 10 different dudes for them?
	Some men would, but not all men.
	Yeah.
	So the men who would find that revolting, what do you think they should do in 2025 when you just said there's not very many women who haven't had that?
	I didn't say there's that many women that haven't had that.
	I'm saying that that isn't necessarily solid.
	The wild body count for some people.
	I didn't say every woman has that body count.
	I didn't say every.
	Well, then they should find somebody that doesn't have that body count.
	That's what they want.
	Okay.
	But what if it's the case that an overwhelming majority of women have that body count?
	Then men are shit out of luck, I guess.
	Is that what you're saying?
	So how are you helping them?
	I'm saying that I don't think that's the case.
	If that is the case and men don't want to change their preference, then they won't find anyone to date.
	So you're saying that if they have a preference against this, that they should just change their preference.
	I didn't say that.
	So what should they do?
	If every woman is disqualified, then they're not going to date.
	So if it is the case then that promiscuity increases in society, which that's what the trends are showing, you at least agree with that.
	Promiscuity, the trends show that that has been drastically increased over the last couple of years.
	Like I said, I don't think it's that drastically different than it was when we were in college.
	So no.
	Okay.
	You don't think that, you don't think like OF has increased since you were in college?
	It doesn't necessarily mean they're banging a bunch of other dudes.
	Porn has been around for a long time.
	Yeah, but the thing is, is the individualized form of it has not.
	Yeah, but they're often with their own partners and stuff.
	They do BGB with others.
	They've been around for a long time.
	You remember that?
	Not at the rates it has been.
	Not even close to the same rates, dude.
	Okay, it's been around.
	Do you ever think we've been in a situation like with Zoomers where it could be as many as one in 10 women do porn ever?
	Okay.
	Ever?
	Like fucking ever.
	Okay, those are OF people.
	That doesn't mean general women.
	There are average people get married every day, Andrew.
	Marriage is decreasing.
	But it's still average people get married every day.
	Even if they're decreasing.
	Listen, it happens.
	So people are finding these people that are on the market.
	I agree that you should be going for good marriages, but you should be going for good marriages.
	But here's my problem.
	My problem is, is when we get into the preferences of men, when you say we should be looking for alternatives, let's have alternatives to red pill for men who have preferences.
	I disagree with you, and I think body count matters to men in a big way.
	To some men, yes.
	Yeah.
	And I want to know what you would tell those men to do.
	What would you tell them to do?
	If they're religious, they probably can find somebody in their church that doesn't have a high body count.
	I'm sure they can meet people when they're young and in college because college people are dating and get married.
	There's probably younger women out there that if you date them, it's a lot of people that get married.
	What about the 30-year-olds?
	They're not all, I mean, they don't necessarily, not all women had high body counts.
	So I don't, but you make it sound like they do because that's still like your stick.
	That's what you do is make men think that all women are, you know.
	No, so I'm just saying that don't you don't you think that by the time most women are 25, they've had at least three sexual partners?
	At least by the time I'll grant three.
	At least three.
	I'll grant three.
	Yeah.
	So at least three.
	I don't say at least.
	I'll grant three.
	You'll grant three, but you won't grant five.
	I can go to five.
	Okay, five.
	And don't you think that once you start getting into those numbers, we're in like high body count territory for a lot of men?
	It depends on what their preference is.
	I have no idea.
	If their preference is that they don't want a woman who slept with five men before them or had, and remember this too.
	A lot of these times you're sleeping with these, these women are sleeping with these men.
	They're long-term relationships, right?
	So you think that if men have legitimate preferences against all that baggage, right?
	You think they should be alone?
	No, I think they should find somebody that doesn't have that baggage.
	That's not matters.
	You think that there's enough of those out there for the amount of men?
	I do.
	Oh, you do?
	And you think that those women want those men?
	I think average people get married every day.
	Okay.
	Well, that's not my question.
	Well, it answers your question.
	So then how come you think that these incels can't find the women which are based around their preferences then?
	I think a lot of people either stay in their house and don't get out.
	They don't meet people.
	They don't ask people out in high school.
	They don't ask people out in college.
	I think that's a big problem with men today is that they're not asking women out.
	I think that's a big, big issue.
	Okay.
	So we'll just finish with this real quick, and then I'll tie it all together for you.
	What do you consider a marriageable woman for the average man?
	What is marriageable?
	I can't prescribe that.
	I have no idea.
	Well, what do you think the average man would consider marriageable?
	Someone they really enjoy being around.
	I don't know.
	That's what I think they're looking for.
	Well, there's going to be some things that you would agree with me.
	They have to be like they probably have to be attracted to them.
	Sure.
	Right?
	It's rate like that.
	They probably have to be attracted.
	Sure.
	But attraction comes in many ways.
	Well, they'd have to probably be physically attracted to each other, right?
	To some degree, but personality and humor can win a lot of people over.
	Yeah, but you still have to be attracted to a person to want to fuck them.
	There's a lot of average people that get married every day, Andrew.
	Yeah, but that doesn't mean they're not attracted to the other people.
	Okay, so they can be attracted beyond physical looks.
	It happens all the time.
	But the thing is, is like it's really hard for man's.
	We need to get hard if it's if you're not attracted, so you fuck women you're not physically attracted to.
	I'm saying most men find most women attractive.
	You think that men fuck women they're not attracted to.
	I think they find most women attractive.
	Yeah, so like so.
	So you think then that like um, that men can just will themselves to fuck unattractive women.
	It's called a slump buster.
	Yeah, I think a lot of men find a lot of women attractive.
	And you think they want long-term relationships with those women?
	Yes, because they get married every day.
	Average people get married every day.
	Average doesn't mean you're not attracted to them, though.
	You keep on making a conflation.
	Yeah.
	You're like, they have to be attracted at least, right?
	Sure.
	There has to be some attraction.
	Some physical attraction.
	Sure.
	Okay.
	And do you think that there's like, I don't know, an obesity epidemic?
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	And so doesn't that lower the rates of attraction?
	Maybe, but aren't the 600-pound ladies are married?
	Like, you know, aren't they married?
	Like, it can happen.
	Yeah, but they're usually married to like very, very unattractive men as well, right?
	They're attracted to them.
	So what does it matter?
	No, they're not always attracted to each other.
	So they got married just for what?
	No, no, no.
	Sometimes it happens in the marriage.
	Okay.
	Right?
	Sometimes it happens in the marriage.
	They literally grow apart.
	The point is people can find other people attractive.
	People want to spend their lives with people, but you don't want to push that message.
	No, what do you mean?
	I'm just talking about basic laws of attraction.
	Do you at least agree there has to be a trait of attraction?
	Sure, but if 600-pound people can find a partner, then I think a lot of people can find a partner.
	One second.
	I'm sorry.
	I don't know what's going on here.
	Oh, good.
	Quick little, guys, we're like 300 viewers away from 10,000 concurrent on YouTube.
	Guys, if you're watching, help us hit us peak at 10,000.
	So anyway, yeah, so back to this.
	So we agree that there's at least one trait.
	Are there any other traits for marriageable women?
	Sorry, repeat the question.
	I'm not really sure.
	Do you agree there's at least one trait?
	There has to be attraction.
	Is there anything else?
	You're saying men need to find a woman attractive.
	That's one of the criteria?
	Well, at least one we could agree on.
	There has to be attraction.
	Some attraction, yes.
	Okay, what else for a marriageable woman?
	I think if they enjoy being around the person, I think that's a big personality, humor, same interest.
	I think those are a big factor.
	Yeah, okay, they enjoy each other's company.
	Correct.
	That's a big part of living together.
	Okay, but so they enjoy each other's company.
	What else?
	I don't know.
	They have similar values.
	Similar values.
	They agree on similar household duties, things like that.
	Okay, so I agree.
	I would say that that one you nailed right there, similar values is the thing that I hear the most from both men and women.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	Similar values.
	So if you were to, like, I don't know, ask a woman, for instance, about her political takes and they were completely the opposite of yours, right?
	You probably wouldn't want to be with that woman?
	Probably not.
	You probably shouldn't.
	So like if you thought, for instance, that women shouldn't vote, right?
	And they thought that they should?
	Yeah, you probably shouldn't date that person.
	Yeah, so it seems like it's a pertinent dating question now.
	No, I'm saying that in red pill.
	No.
	The only people who think women shouldn't vote are red pill people.
	So I'm saying if they can get out of the red pill community, they wouldn't.
	Yeah, but you just said that preferences are a thing which are completely fine and you have no problem with anybody's preferences about anything.
	Okay, yeah.
	If these people, similar values, if they're like, hey, I don't think women should have the right to vote or I don't think women should work, then yeah, go ahead and go ahead and whittle those people out of your life.
	Go for it.
	So just to make sure, right, you think that if it's your preference that you shouldn't be with women like that.
	What percentage of the people who are saying what percentage of people the red pillars.
	And those are the men you're trying to save.
	They're the only ones.
	Yeah.
	Aren't those the men you're trying to save?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Well, but if their preference is to have these types of women, how are you going to save them?
	Why do you think they don't want women to vote?
	Well, I think that they have good justifiable reasons for why they don't want anybody to vote.
	Okay.
	That's what I think.
	Well, like I said, those are all the things that would make somebody, I think, viable.
	And if they don't match those...
	So how are you going to save these guys if they have these preferences?
	I don't get it.
	Didn't they find somebody?
	Your wife doesn't care about voting, right?
	You found somebody.
	Yeah, I did.
	Do you think that there's a lot of my wives out there?
	I don't think there's a lot of you's out there.
	Well, but there's a lot of red pillars, right?
	Yeah, but I don't think there's, I don't think every single red pillar thinks they shouldn't vote.
	The women should have vote.
	You somehow, that somehow you landed on that somehow, and you found somebody who agrees with you.
	So I hope she convinced me.
	Yeah, okay.
	Well, I have hope that other guys can too then.
	Okay, so then inside of the red pill community, though, you do agree that there's like a massive repeal of the 19th movement.
	Sure.
	And if they find women that agree, good for them.
	I hope they do.
	They don't, but they probably won't, right?
	Okay, well, then they're going to be alone then.
	So then you don't really care about the loneliness of red pillars.
	You just want them to change their preferences to me to meet your preferences.
	There's a lot of people, there's a lot of red pillars that might change their whole belief system after getting out of it.
	Go ahead.
	Change my belief system.
	I didn't say I'm going to be.
	Why is it that red pillars should get with women who want the right to vote?
	I didn't say that.
	That's not what I'm saying.
	You have no prescriptions.
	You have no fucking prescriptions.
	It's like talking.
	Listen.
	No, you listen.
	No, you listen.
	You're talking about it.
	You give me a fucking prescription.
	I just talked to you like that.
	What are you going to fucking do about it?
	Nothing.
	Yeah, you heard me.
	You fucking heard me.
	You're not going to do shit.
	Not going to be a good idea.
	What are you trying to do?
	Now, back to this.
	What are you trying to do here?
	Nothing.
	Yeah.
	You want to come hard?
	We're doing it, right?
	Coming hard by what?
	You just said, don't.
	You just said, what are you going to do, right?
	What are you?
	Okay.
	What are you going to do?
	Dude, that is some insecurity.
	Now, I'm not saying anything about that.
	Now, are you going to engage here or not?
	Repeal the 19th?
	I don't think we should.
	Got it.
	If you had a preference for it, and a woman didn't, probably shouldn't date, right?
	Right.
	That would make it a legitimate dating question.
	But that's not what you just said.
	You said, I don't care about red pillars because they, if they can't find a woman that.
	Yeah, you want them to conform to your preferences.
	I didn't say conform to my preferences.
	I said if they get out of the red pill community, they might not believe these things anymore.
	That's all I'm saying.
	Which would conform to what?
	Your preferences.
	I didn't say anything about my preferences.
	You out of the red pill.
	Sorry.
	Do you think that if all these red pillars adopted your preferences?
	No, like they don't care about body counts.
	They don't shit about my preferences.
	Who cares about my preferences?
	If they can't find a woman.
	Hold on.
	Listen, if they can't find a woman, if they can't find a woman that doesn't match their preferences, they get out of the red pill because it's not working for them.
	They might change their beliefs.
	I'm not prescribing a preference.
	I'm prescribing getting out of the red pill.
	That's what I'm presenting.
	So can you prescribe any alternative?
	Getting out of the red pill is the first step.
	Yeah, that's not an alternative.
	It is.
	No, that's just that.
	Listen, it's like saying this.
	Your car is shit.
	Great, but I need to drive to work.
	Can you tell me an alternative car?
	No.
	That's not the same thing.
	So I'm saying, no, it's not.
	Okay, take the blue pill then.
	How about that?
	Okay, what's the blue pill?
	It's the complete opposite of the red pill.
	Yeah, that doesn't tell me anything.
	What is it?
	They'll figure it out.
	Okay, they'll figure it out.
	Never any prescriptions at all.
	No, because I'm not coming here to prescribe anything but getting out of the red pill.
	That's all.
	Yeah, but don't you understand that unless you give prescriptions for why that is because it's not helping them.
	That's why.
	Yeah, but you won't even tell us what the standard of helping them is.
	What is it?
	If they're unhappy with the current situation they're in because of the communities they're listening to, get out of it.
	They tell us what the alternative community, they'll be happy in the world.
	First, throw up the red pill.
	That's the first step.
	Oh, my God.
	If you're not happy with your shitty car, then just get rid of the car.
	What do I get in?
	Nothing?
	Yeah.
	Nothing?
	Yep.
	Stupid.
	Stupid.
	It's so stupid.
	It is.
	It's so dumb.
	You have no alternative.
	It's so dumb.
	No prescription.
	Keep prescribing the red pill then.
	Keep prescribing.
	It's working for them.
	I prescribe Christian ethics.
	You also prescribe the red pill.
	No, I just say that there's things about the red pill.
	You asked me a specific narrow question.
	Has it done more good or more bad?
	I think it's done more bad.
	That doesn't mean it's a prescriptor that I prescribe because I also understand it does more good than bad.
	Okay, well, you personally don't, but the communities themselves do and the content creators do.
	What does that have to do with anything?
	What does that have to do with literally fucking anything?
	It has to do with what I came here to do.
	Okay, what did you come here to do again?
	To try to convince as many red pillars to get out of the way.
	Do you think you're doing that?
	I don't know.
	Maybe some people are listening.
	Do you think you're doing that?
	I don't know.
	Maybe some of them might say, you know what, it isn't working for me.
	I'm going to get out.
	Maybe that's what they're thinking.
	You would have been better coming in with a pro-Christian ethics message because that actually gets them out of the red pill.
	Okay, sure.
	Yeah, it does it a lot better.
	Yeah.
	That's why Muslims do a good job recruiting out of the red pill in Manosphere.
	It's why Christians do a good job.
	Secularist atheists who say, ah, no, I don't give a shit if a woman's fucking plowed 100 guys.
	I'd still be with her anyway.
	That just turned off every motherfucker who is watching this, I promise.
	Well, that's fine.
	But if it is going to Christian ethics and that gives them a happier life and they're not depressed and they're not incels, then hey, go for it.
	That's a prescription.
	Wait a second.
	So maybe we can agree here.
	Should red pillars go towards Christian ethics?
	I'm not prescribing that, no.
	But if it helps them, go.
	Go for it.
	Then that would be a prescription.
	No, it's not.
	There's several things they can turn to that aren't Christian ethics.
	But if that is one of them, I'm not saying that there's, I don't know, but I'm saying there are other alternatives.
	If Christian ethics is one, if you still, if religion in general is.
	Alternatives, what I got here.
	There's other alternatives.
	Yeah, there's several people that live their lives in a secular way that aren't depressed and, you know, incels.
	There's several ways you can live a secular life that doesn't necessarily have this hard and fast philosophy that you believe in.
	There are people that can get out of it and choose a different path.
	That's all I'm saying.
	Yeah, you're just, all you're offering up is more feminist degeneracy.
	Yeah, degenerate.
	It is degenerate.
	I'm not.
	It's completely degenerate.
	That's sort of degeneracy.
	What your worldview leads to is cohabitation and single motherhood and degeneracy.
	That's all it ever leads to.
	And what red pill content leads to is depression.
	And red pill content leads to depression and it leads to loneliness.
	Here's the thing.
	If you have to do the alternative spectrum where we follow your view for cohabitation, we already know what that does to men.
	And it's way worse than if they never get married or if they do get married.
	We know it for sure.
	And your worldview, your secularist fucking worldview, feminist worldview is what led us to this in the first place.
	It was the erosion of religion, the erosion of Christian ethics, the erosion of having a patriarchal society.
	We used to have 95%, 95%.
	They stayed intact.
	Thanks, man.
	Oh, now you care about them so much.
	95% what?
	Oh, marriages.
	95%.
	Because women were legally and economically trapped in the world.
	Bro, you think this is a better system?
	Yes.
	Okay, well then why do you say you care about these men?
	Yes.
	You want them to be free of the red pill?
	Correct.
	Then why'd you put them in a fucking society where they needed it?
	Okay, that's yeah, they needed it because of feminism.
	You're right.
	Blame women every chance you get.
	Blame women every chance you get, Andrew.
	Did I blame women or did I blame ideology?
	Okay, it's saying, no, it's not the same thing.
	It's the same thing that you know.
	You understand how to say it for nothing.
	So again, this whole society, we had all of the things that you're prescribing.
	Men's health, really good.
	Women's health, really good.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, it really was.
	And now, not so much.
	Thanks to you fuckers.
	Yeah, thanks to us.
	So you want them to do the exact same shit.
	Same shit.
	Cohabitate, have kids, let the woman take over when it comes to abortions, right?
	She can kill your kid, not kill your kid, totally up to her.
	You fucking deal with it.
	And if she has a high body count, just get over that preference.
	Yeah, if the red pill's working for you, brilliant.
	If the red pill is working for you, keep it.
	If it's not, get the fuck out.
	Well, here's the thing.
	Your lifestyle doesn't, the lifestyle of secularism, which leads to degeneracy, is what forced society into this fucking play anyway.
	You know what, I think a lot of men are angry that women have agency and they can live their own lives.
	They can make income, and these men are just upset about it.
	That's what it is.
	And the red pill was a good community for them to go to because they're rejected and they're angry.
	So the red pill is what it is.
	Yeah, so it has nothing to do with agency.
	It has to do with the understanding of virtues.
	Oh, yeah, it's virtues.
	That's the issue.
	Everyone's like, man, you think that gender is nebulous.
	In fact, everything is nebulous.
	So when you say masculine or you say feminine, those are nebulous terms to you.
	But the thing is, is like masculinity is not a nebulous term.
	It's always been associated with virtue.
	The same as femininity.
	Feminine virtues and masculine virtues.
	The world changes.
	Yeah, but the thing is, it's like that forcing of progression ideology, progressive ideology, exactly what caught us here.
	And all you're prescribing is more progressive ideology.
	Yeah, the idea that women wanted to, you know, be lawyers and they couldn't 55 years ago.
	Yeah.
	Oh, no.
	Oh, my God.
	Instead, they took care of their own children.
	We're forcing it.
	Oh, we're forcing it down your throat.
	Oh, my God.
	Let me ask you this.
	God forgive people trying to find their own.
	Would you rather this?
	Would you rather take away the ability of women to be lawyers if it meant that the human population continued to go because they stayed at home or were mothers?
	Or would you let humanity go extinct so that women could stay lawyers if they wanted to?
	I don't know if a life is worth living if you don't have agency.
	Can you answer my fucking question?
	I just did.
	No, I would rather women had the choice.
	That's what I said.
	And all of humanity go extinct.
	So be it.
	Okay.
	I think that's the end of the debate.
	There's some other prompts.
	We got some chats coming through.
	Guys, if you want to get it in, $100 TTS.
	Andrew's going for another smoke break.
	There he goes.
	He'll be right back, guys.
	We have Lucas.
	Thank you, Lucas.
	Lucas donated $100.
	Appreciate it.
	Healthy masculinity equals biblical masculinity, i.e., highly competent, patriarchal/slash family-oriented, honorable, unassailably virtuous, courageous, with impeccable integrity.
	Doesn't that sound like my definition a little bit beyond the Bible?
	Is that your definition?
	Doing the right thing because it's the right thing, like, you know, family-oriented, honorable, virtuous, courageous, impeccable integrity?
	I don't know.
	Okay.
	We have Jason Castle here.
	Thank you, Jason.
	Appreciate it.
	Jason Castle donated $100.
	Like I said, definitely one of the dumbest guys Andrew has ever debated.
	In order to have an actual debate, you need to understand your opponent's worldview that includes their definition, dummy.
	I didn't come here to play the definition game.
	That's Andrew's little tactic he does with every debate.
	That's why these are five hours.
	Yeah, but I mean, don't you think it's fair that in order for you guys to have an understanding of what you're actually talking about, you both can agree on a definition?
	Yeah, I do agree, but there's things that I think are given that he tries to nitpick anyway.
	Like, for example, if I said I think women historically would be oppressed, he would say, well, what's oppression?
	And then it's like he knows what oppression is, but he wants to play this semantic game, which leads us down a road which makes him win argument points.
	But it's like we both agree that women have been oppressed at some point.
	So that's why.
	He might disagree, but I agree with you that he knows what, well, he has his own sense of, or his own definition of oppression, but he's just looking to you to give your own definition to make sure that you guys are talking about the same thing.
	For example, how would you, and I'm not debating on that.
	Sure, sure.
	No, I like this conversation.
	No, for sure.
	How would you define racism?
	I define racism as a systematic discrimination due to someone's identity, mostly.
	Like, I think prejudice and racism are two different things.
	But for example, some people, and I don't know if you use this definition, will use the following definition of racism.
	Racism equals prejudice plus power.
	Yeah, I can agree with that.
	Is that your definition?
	Yeah, I can agree with that.
	Yeah.
	many people in the original, the original definition of racism, that's not the original definition of racism.
	So that's why I think he's trying to figure out the definitions of words, because especially with words like oppression, racism, sexism, if, oh my God, I am.
	Is that really?
	I have not been talking into the mic the entire time.
	I had to turn around, so I hope probably nobody heard what I was saying.
	My apologies.
	So the definition of racism, if it's prejudice, racism equals prejudice plus power, Andrew's not going to agree with you on that definition.
	Right, but instead of providing his own definition, he wants to pick apart mine.
	And I think that's the bullshit that he does in debates.
	If you don't agree with my definition, provide your own.
	You mean you win?
	No, you're winning debate club.
	I'm trying to have a conversation.
	I don't know what a conversation is.
	You don't even have a worldview that's informed.
	Okay, sure.
	What you're doing is prescribing degeneracy.
	All you do is believe in Christian ethics because it's your go-to.
	It's a thing that worked for 2,000 years.
	Oh, it worked so well.
	Yes, it did.
	Why are we doing it still?
	We're trying to move society to it.
	It's not going there.
	Yeah, whatever.
	I mean, half the world.
	By 2050, secularists are going to be more popular.
	By 2015, secularists are going to be more fucked up.
	They can't reproduce news.
	They can't.
	They can't fuck.
	We're the ones fucking.
	They're not.
	No, they're not.
	We're the ones fucking.
	Do you want to know?
	Do you want to take a breakdown of population by secularists versus Christians?
	Not even in the same fucking universe, dude.
	Okay, okay.
	Really quick, really quick before we get right back into it.
	I just want to read it.
	I can't.
	Dude, you got to let me go get some sleep, man.
	It's 24 hours.
	I've been up now.
	How long have we been doing this?
	Like hours.
	Three hours.
	It's time.
	It's time.
	We got to wrap it on this, bro.
	I'll be back tomorrow, though.
	30 minutes?
	30 minutes.
	30 minutes?
	Okay, 30 minutes.
	Let me at least let the chats come through really quick.
	Guys, okay, 30 minutes.
	So, yeah, we'll do 30 minutes.
	If you want final opportunity, $99 TTS.
	Also, really quick, guys, we're like 200 viewers away from hitting 10,000 concurrent viewers.
	Let me ask this, too.
	Join us really quick.
	Is there any degeneracy you're against?
	Any?
	I'm sure.
	Like homosexuality?
	No, I'm not against that.
	Female promiscuity?
	No, I'm not against that.
	Okay.
	Are you against male promiscuity?
	No.
	Okay.
	No male promiscuity.
	Are you against like three men in a homosexual relationship adopting a child?
	No.
	No, not against that either.
	What degeneracy would you be against?
	Keep giving me examples.
	I'll tell you.
	Maybe necrophilia?
	Like, whatever.
	Do you draw the line of dead bodies?
	That's one.
	That's it?
	That's the one I could think of.
	I'm sure there's more.
	What about incest?
	Yeah, I think that's degeneracy.
	You think that is?
	Yeah.
	So can you tell me why it is you think two brothers shouldn't be able to have sex?
	It just doesn't sit right with me.
	Oh, okay.
	It just doesn't say.
	And none of this sits right with anybody.
	The idea that you – so all you've prescribed for society is the same exact thing that these guys have been dealing with for the last 50 years, which is just an unlimited amount of degeneracy.
	What new – you know what?
	Let me just ask this.
	What new are you actually bringing to the table?
	Are you bringing any new idea other than just, I'm a progressive and do whatever the fuck you want?
	Are you bringing anything?
	I think my channel is showing that the red pill myths that they're being told about women isn't necessarily true.
	So I'm bringing that.
	And people have told me that it's helping.
	Okay, right.
	That's what I'm bringing to the table.
	Well, it looks to me like all you're bringing to the table is just more progressive degeneracy.
	It looks to me like all you're bringing to the table is a return to the 1950s.
	No, well, here's the thing.
	It's so good, right?
	Hey, in the 1950s, what did you think about the lack of mental illnesses there?
	Yeah, I'm sure there weren't any mental illnesses.
	Maybe we didn't know how to do it.
	In comparison to the 1950s were so great.
	Let's just go back to that.
	What about the interpersonal relationships in the 1950s?
	Did you hate so much?
	What were they?
	You don't know, do you?
	Yeah, you don't know.
	No, all you bring to the table is let's go back in time.
	That's all you bring to the table.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	You're upset that I use tradition.
	Do I seem upset?
	What's a tradition?
	Do I seem upset?
	Yeah.
	It seems like an experiment that worked.
	Oh, did it?
	Yeah, that's what a tradition is.
	Do you have family traditions?
	Not really.
	None?
	Not that I can think of, no.
	Would you agree with me that a tradition could easily be looked at as an experiment which worked?
	Not necessarily.
	Well, I mean, why would you have them if they don't work?
	I don't know.
	Is the Christmas tree a tradition?
	Does it work?
	Yes.
	It works?
	And here's what it works.
	It has no application.
	Works for the assistance of people getting around a Christmas tree and celebrating an event.
	Yeah.
	And it works so well that it spread like wildfire and everybody started doing it.
	It was a great way to assist with community.
	Seems like a tradition that worked.
	Richard Dawkins, who was a very famous atheist, said he really misses Christmas carols.
	He did everything he could to eliminate Christianity, but he really misses Christmas carols.
	Yeah.
	Well, you can celebrate Christmas without being Christian.
	Sure.
	You're just going to steal from our ethics, like always, and then, you know, degenerize them.
	Yeah, sure.
	But okay.
	Did you want to order food?
	I was going to get this food after the show or no.
	I need sleep.
	Okay.
	No.
	I need sleep.
	Just checking.
	I was going to order some food, Andrew.
	I'm going to get you a burger.
	All right.
	Let me let the chats come through.
	I'm sure the audience can tell I'm fucking tired, too.
	Thank you for Scott donated $100.
	And I wonder why men feel disheartened in society.
	Could it be the solid 20 to 30 years of telling them they're monsters, predators, and hashtag unalive all men?
	No, it's all red pill's fault.
	I think that's horrible.
	I don't think people should make men feel terrible, but I think what's happening with Red Pill is that it's becoming a dehumanization of women and it's becoming demonizing women.
	And I don't think that's going to help either.
	So I don't agree that men should be berated like that, but I also don't think women should either.
	Okay, we have Jordan Flores here.
	This is the Mexican guy.
	Jordan Flores donated $100 representative of married for 10 years and a four kid.
	Again, Andrew, not all of us Mexicans are as stupid as this one.
	Some of us understand how to follow a simple argument.
	You got something to say about Mexicans?
	Yes.
	What is it?
	Go ahead.
	The mic's right there.
	Well, I'm not going to say they're all as stupid as you.
	What the fuck?
	Oh, whoops.
	Okay.
	I'm not going to say that.
	That's too much.
	But like the term stupid Mexican is pretty funny.
	It's pretty funny.
	Dude, if you want to help sincerely, then try to understand sincerely.
	Andrew brings up good points and you remain evasive.
	It doesn't help anyone.
	Well, as I was telling Brian when Andrew went for a smoke, if I give a definition of something, he doesn't agree with it, he can provide his own.
	But it said he wants to play a semantic definition game and it's bullshit.
	So I don't like playing that game with him.
	It's really funny because I can be super pedantic with semantics.
	That's true.
	But in this case, you, by your own admission, said it's my own definition, meaning it's proprietary.
	I have every business in the world exploring that to make sure that it is pointing at the thing that we both understand is trying to point to, but it's not.
	You keep it the reason.
	See, it's actually you playing semantic games because if you would narrow and hone on what the definition was, we wouldn't have to waste so much fucking time on it.
	So I understood what it is you're trying to point out.
	If you just would provide your definition and we could find a middle ground, we could also go forward.
	It's your position.
	I don't prove your position.
	Exactly.
	This is the debate club bullshit.
	Oh, my God.
	Yes, it's a debate.
	It's an ideological debate between worlds.
	It's a debate club.
	You're playing for some fucking stupid ass points.
	Destiny triangles.
	You're trying to play for some points that aren't real.
	All right, we have Chaw here.
	Thank you, Shaw.
	Chore XD donated $100.
	These secular idiots are driving more men to Red Pill than even the most prolific Red Pill podcasters.
	They offer you nothing.
	No duty.
	No prescriptions, no virtue.
	Just degenerate hell on earth.
	Just degeneracy.
	It's all they ever prescribe.
	So as you mentioned, that Myron Gaines is a degenerate and he's promoting stuff.
	So what virtue is he promoting or what duty is he?
	Bro, at least Myron, when you sit down and talk to him about virtues and about Christian ethics and about duty, he'll at least concede on these grounds.
	You literally just said the whole fucking world can just go ahead and die off if that means women can't be lawyers.
	Like, you're in a fucking different world of crazy.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Got iron.
	Thank you.
	Iron Manny.
	Donated $100.
	No maims.
	Weigh.
	Yeah, Le Yeme, Dolan Trump, parakeet, sake, del pace porque, I can't with you.
	You look defeated.
	Shoulders slumped, gaze down.
	To do beta, way.
	Non-based British Spanish there.
	All right.
	We have Jim.
	GMD Jim.
	Thank you, man.
	Appreciate it.
	Let's see here.
	That's taken.
	Guys, if you want, we'll do a roast session after this.
	We'll do $69 of an Andrew $99.
	We'll say that.
	We'll leave.
	I'll continue.
	He talked shit behind your back, Andrew.
	No shock.
	Like a woman.
	Please pick up the money.
	What are you not shocked about?
	This kid.
	That you would talk shit behind my back.
	Did I talk shit behind his back, Brian?
	What did you say?
	Surrender to God.
	You were here whenever I was talking to you.
	I mean, I came in and you were talking shit when I wasn't here.
	When all Andrew does is blah, blah, blah, blah.
	That's talking shit.
	It's kind of like, I don't remember.
	Yeah, I mean, that's definitely.
	Even when I was walking in, I heard you talking about it me and Brian were having a conversation about how you don't give a definition.
	That's not talking shit.
	Bro.
	Wait, I didn't say that.
	No.
	I said we were talking about it.
	That's what I was saying.
	Bro, when we were talking about it.
	So he got to the whole first part of this debate.
	You can go rewind it later and you need to.
	That was me on defense.
	And I gave you every opportunity to examine my worldview.
	When we got to your positive claims, you refused to answer a single fucking question.
	It was ridiculous.
	Question for both of you.
	There were a bunch more prompts.
	Would you guys do a round two?
	Yeah.
	Would you get a different day?
	Yeah, a different day.
	Just, you know, Andrew, he's been up for 24 hours.
	No, I know.
	You've already done three hours.
	No, I get it.
	But if you're down to come back, we'd love, Andrew, if you'd like to do it again, we can, you know, it was entertaining.
	I can't wait to hear more about how degeneracy is going to save society.
	I can't wait to hear, let's define this and let's define that.
	How do you define this?
	And what I'm not going to provide my, it's not the rules.
	All you got to do is ask me, if you want to cross-examine my position, I asked you to provide a definition and you didn't do it.
	Because it's your position.
	If we don't agree, I need to give you a definition for your fucking position, dude.
	I gave you my definition, and if you didn't agree with it, tell me yours.
	It's not debate rules.
	I know.
	It's not the debate rules.
	We can't have a real conversation.
	It's illogical.
	It's not illogical.
	If you don't agree with my position, tell me yours and maybe we can find a middle ground.
	But that's not how you debate.
	That's not how you talk.
	That's not how anybody debates.
	That's how a lot of people have conversations with.
	Listen, even inside of conversations, all you're really doing is debating.
	It's just that you refuse to formalize it because you're terrified of where your fucking thoughts lead.
	So what you do instead is filibuster, refuse to answer questions, refuse to allow me to even understand what it is that you're talking about with a proprietary definition.
	Well, that's insane.
	I have seen enough of your debates that I know when you go down the morality rabbit hole, what morality do you subscribe to?
	Oh, I'm Christian ethics.
	Oh, well, you don't have any kind of relevance, you know, is relevantism.
	It's the same bullshit you do every fucking debate.
	So I'm not doing it.
	I literally told you I wasn't going to get into morality.
	But if we went down that hole, you can't help yourself.
	Bro, you can't help yourself.
	You do it every debate.
	But here's the thing.
	No, I don't.
	Not only that, not only do I not, especially in political debates, there's never a reason to.
	In this case, we never really got into morality at all.
	Just your prescriptions for society, which were just like, I know, everybody can do whatever the fuck they want on a bridge.
	I'm going to say it's moral relativism.
	Well, no, it's just, it's just Crowleyan.
	It's just do as thou wilt.
	It's the same shit we've been dealing with for 60 years.
	You're not helping nothing.
	Okay.
	All right.
	A few more chats coming through.
	We got Birdman, $69 TTS for a session.
	I'm donated $69.
	Thank you, Birdman.
	When you leave the debate, you're going to leave with your definition.
	So Andrew is working with your definition.
	You're playing the semantics, not Andrew.
	Exactly.
	I'm trying to be clear, so we're not playing semantics or equivocating.
	See, the biggest thing, and like now the audience can see this firsthand why this becomes so frustrating for people like me, is with equivocation.
	They'll move between like a tube of toothpaste.
	They don't want you to pin them down on the shit they actually believe.
	I said from the beginning that masculinity should not be rigid, and I don't have a strict definition.
	So I can't pin down any beliefs.
	Don't pin it down.
	Share yours.
	Right.
	Share yours.
	If you want my definition of masculinity.
	Sure, if you want to finally share it, let's go for it.
	So my definition of masculinity and my definition of femininity are going to be tied to virtues.
	Okay.
	So here's what I mean by this.
	Yeah.
	If you have male virtue and female virtue, all virtues are going to be united in the way that men and women both need to have courage, for instance.
	Okay.
	But if it is the case that the effects on society, when one gender specifically lacks whatever that virtue is over the other and the results are either more devastating or more positive, that would be a masculine trait versus a feminine trait.
	Interesting.
	Say that one more time.
	So if you said courage is something that both men masculine.
	I don't want to answer any more about this.
	I can't believe this.
	I can't fucking believe that I just gave you my definition.
	I just gave it to you.
	I know.
	Why are you asking me more about it?
	It's because I don't understand it.
	I don't, well, I didn't understand yours, but that.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I'm not questioning you.
	No, I'm not questioning you.
	I'm not answering any more questions about my definition.
	That's fine.
	Go for it.
	Not answering any more questions.
	I wasn't questioning your definition.
	I'm just trying to make it.
	You're trying to understand it.
	Make sure I heard it.
	You're trying to understand it.
	So you're trying to understand it.
	I didn't ask you what's courage, did I?
	No, but the thing is, it's like you're asking me follow-up questions about the definition.
	Rightly so.
	Because I didn't understand it.
	Exactly.
	But you're saying what's good.
	I didn't ask you what courage was.
	I didn't ask you what courage was.
	Oh, you didn't need to.
	You were trying to get an elaboration.
	You said, that's interesting.
	Let's dive in on this a little more.
	Yeah.
	Look at that.
	It's almost like you want to hone in definitionally on my worldview, which is smart.
	The way I approach that is so different from the way you approach it, and you fucking know it.
	It's a conversation.
	It's the same shit.
	No, it's not the same shit.
	You know something.
	Dude, you would have to do it.
	You could have had the best faith debate ever.
	You are not a good faith debater.
	All you had to do.
	You're not a good faith debater.
	All you had to do is to do it.
	Where you asked me the definition, I gave it to you.
	I would have continued to be a bad faith debate.
	According to who?
	To everyone who's debated.
	Do you mean somebody who's not left?
	Do you mean someone's not a leftist?
	No, anyone who's debated you.
	Anyone.
	Anyone.
	Who's that?
	Literally anyone.
	Who's anyone?
	I've never debated anybody anymore.
	Tommy Lauren thinks you're a good faith debater.
	Tommy Lauren.
	Whatever the fuck her name is.
	A leftist?
	Tommy Lauren.
	Tommy Lauren.
	Yeah, leftist.
	She's not a leftist.
	Oh, yeah, she is.
	Okay, here we go.
	Now she's a leftist.
	She's a progressive, yeah.
	Yeah, sure.
	She's a progressive.
	Yeah, I called her out for being a feminist.
	She's still pissed about it to this day.
	No, because you're not a good faith debater.
	That's why.
	And did she ever call me bad faith?
	You're not a good faith debater.
	Did she ever call me bad faith?
	I'm sure she thinks it.
	Did she ever call me that?
	I'm sure she's a faithful.
	She just made it up.
	She just made it up.
	You just made it up.
	She made it up.
	She's still pissed.
	Say you made it up.
	She's still pissed?
	Yeah, but that doesn't mean I'm bad faith because she's pissed.
	Why would she be pissed?
	If it's not if it's because I beat her in a debate, it's not.
	It's nothing about being in debates because you called her a fucking nat faith.
	Just because you called her a fucking natural.
	You know what happens?
	Just people cope.
	Women can be lawyers.
	I want people to have agency.
	And if that costs humanity, then what's life worth living?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Either they can be lawyers or not lawyers.
	I said agency.
	It's not that specific, Andrew.
	I asked you.
	People said agency.
	Yeah, because it ties into agency.
	Right.
	So what you're saying, again, they better be able to be lawyers.
	No, you're strauming my argument.
	My argument is anyone who has, if you can't have agency in your life, I don't care if humanity goes off the cliff.
	That's what I'm saying.
	Okay.
	How much agency?
	I don't know.
	Oh.
	Agency, though.
	Whatever that is.
	A choice to equality, basically.
	Equal opportunity.
	That's what I'm saying.
	But men don't have equality and abortion.
	You're fine with it.
	Equal opportunity.
	Yeah, men don't have equality and abortion.
	You're fine with it.
	Equal opportunity, I said, not equality.
	Yeah, men don't have equal opportunity with abortion either.
	You're fine with it.
	Well, they're not the ones giving birth.
	So of course they don't have equal body.
	But there are other ones who are on the bottom of the body.
	If they want to give birth, hey, if they want to give equal opportunity to give birth, then yeah, let's go for it.
	No, how about just equal opportunity to have a say in whether or not their kid is born or not?
	But it's not an equal opportunity for them because they can't provide they don't need to to have the equal opportunity.
	They can't.
	That's what laws are.
	And we can literally outlaw abortion tomorrow.
	So you would rather there not be no world than abortion outlawed?
	I didn't say that.
	You're just destroying agency and equity, right?
	Is that your position, though?
	No.
	My position is why not?
	Because I had a lot of people.
	But women won't have agency.
	That's not the same.
	Same thing, man.
	Why?
	It's the same shit.
	They won't have agency.
	They won't have agency.
	It's the same thing.
	If women can't have abortions, they don't have agency now.
	The agency that men have, that's what I'm saying.
	The agency that other people have.
	If you can't have that, then no, I don't think whatever.
	So like abortion?
	You can't have an abortion?
	No, I didn't say that.
	Yeah, but if you can't have an abortion, how's that not limiting agency?
	Because if no one can have an abortion, then no one can have an abortion.
	That's it.
	And if men have a say and women have a say, then both of them have a say, and that's it.
	No, my point is, if men have agency in one thing and women had the same opportunity to have the same agency, then they should.
	Like with a child being born.
	No, because men don't have agency around childbirth at all.
	They should have it, though.
	No, they don't because they don't get pregnant.
	Yes, but they don't get pregnant.
	Yes, it's still their kid.
	It's still their kids.
	It doesn't matter.
	It's not a care of it after it's done.
	It doesn't matter.
	Okay, so then by that logic, then if you were going to implant, I don't know, your wife's egg and then your semen into another woman, she agreed to it, and it gets six weeks down the road.
	Should she be able to abort that kid?
	If she doesn't want to go through with the pregnancy, it sucks, but yeah.
	Okay.
	No, at least I'm consistent.
	Good lord.
	Let's finish the chats if we can.
	All right.
	We got Lulu Lululu here.
	Thank you, Lulu Lulu Lulu Lulu.
	Lululu donated $100.
	Do stop dismissing this debate club.
	You came on to a debate.
	We're all expecting a debate.
	That's like going to a funeral, cracking jokes, or going to a party with bad vibes.
	A debate can be several things.
	It doesn't have to be this prescriptive rules that Andrew likes to play.
	A debate can be a back and forth.
	Lucas coming in here.
	We got Lucas coming in.
	And we got Rachel Wilson in just a moment with the chat.
	If you want to get it in, we lowered it.
	We're doing a $69 TTS row.
	This is a roast session.
	Hey, Soy boy.
	Exclamation, Mark.
	Do you really think you changed in a single mind today with her vapid prattle?
	Are you that out of touch?
	Men have categorically rejected your worldview.
	Did you see the election for poets?
	Yeah, that's one election, but you guys aren't headed for more.
	It's fine.
	Did you vote by?
	Oh, we're not, huh?
	Absolutely.
	Did you see what happened with abortion?
	We're not heading for more, though.
	Did you see what's in the Supreme Court right now where they're about to maybe limit anchor babies?
	We're not heading for more, though.
	Yeah.
	We'll see how long this lasts.
	Yeah, we'll see how long it fucking lasts.
	We got Jag here, doesn't care about logic or the end of humanity.
	Sick and demented human.
	Thank you, Jag48, for the super chat.
	Appreciate it.
	And then we have Brian S. Riddle me this.
	If all I need to do is read a book to get better, what good are our psychologists?
	Also, Soy Boy's month-old channel is so informative about how bad the red pill is that he gives his guests the subject matter to discuss.
	I don't get that last part.
	In other words, you're feeding them answers and information is what he's saying.
	Oh.
	I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what he's saying.
	Also, I want to address that.
	No, I don't think it's just the book.
	It's the same thing like with going to the gym.
	I liken it to, if you go to the gym to work out your body, you know, a protein shake helps.
	For example, like reading supplementary material, I think helps.
	Same way with therapy.
	If you're going to therapy to work on like the mental gym, books are supplements to that.
	That's how I feel.
	All right.
	We'll do closing statements after we get through the rest of these chats.
	There's about five.
	Does this guy realize that there's cause and effect?
	There's a reason for the red pill.
	It's not all on men.
	We didn't cause it alone, so we can't fix it alone.
	What responsibility do women have?
	Well, I got his official answer for that on page 20.
	You don't have my official answer.
	You said none.
	No, responsibility, I think, to the red.
	That's duty.
	You said women have no duties.
	To the red pill.
	I'm talking about if we're trying to fix this divide, that's what he's talking about.
	So I'm saying if the red pill, yes, I agree.
	It is a cause and effect.
	Men have been rejected.
	They're angry.
	And red pill is a community that they feel they can confide in.
	I think what needs to happen is I also think a lot of misandry is also a reaction to the red pill that we're seeing more prominent.
	And I think that's a problem too.
	So I think if we want to get people back together, we have to stop being so extreme.
	And I think we have to stop demonizing each other.
	And I think that's both men and women.
	Erroneous!
	Erroneous!
	Erroneous.
	Misandry being a response to Red Pill to misogyny.
	Wait, what?
	I think Red Pill is a very misogynistic space.
	You said that the thing was the response.
	And so then if Misandre's response to the misogyny, then that would mean that it was Misandre that caused misogyny.
	How does that work?
	Well, because what caused the misogyny?
	Rejection.
	Rejection.
	And men being demonized.
	Men being demonized.
	I said the misandry now, they need to stop demonizing.
	I don't think that was the reason misogynist content started coming up.
	It started coming up because men felt rejected.
	And these guys prey on that rejection by saying for victimizing.
	No, I'm in the middle of speaking.
	So these people are praying.
	They're praying.
	They're preying on people that are rejected and angry.
	They're preying on people that are rejected and angry.
	And so they're saying, hey, I can help you self-improve.
	And by the way, women suck, don't they?
	That's what Red Pill does.
	Okay.
	Rachel Wilson donated $69.
	Guys, shout out to the menu.
	Mayor feminism is a mating strategy for beta males.
	They try to blend in with the women and seem non-threatening.
	If this guy really respected women, he would respect me and not lie about my husband.
	I don't think I disrespected her in any way.
	Okay.
	No, he said, she's saying that the disrespect is when you lie about me.
	I don't think I lied about you either.
	I mean, when you say bad faith, those are all lies.
	You're a bad faith debate.
	No, you just don't know how to debate.
	You're a bad faith debate.
	You not knowing how to debate doesn't mean I'm bad faith.
	The people who do know how to debate, they'll call you bad faith.
	Which ones?
	Oh, not the liberal ones.
	Yeah.
	So the conservative ones who all become my friends after and come to me for debate lessons, they don't think I'm bad faith, though, huh?
	Just the ones who hate my political ideology.
	That's awful fucking convenient.
	That's all it is.
	It's awful convenient.
	By the way, I've seen this on the other side, too.
	Tons of right-wing people are like, Destiny's bad faith.
	I remember him putting out a post saying, at this point, I reject bad faith because it just means you lost the debate.
	And you know what?
	I tend to fucking agree with him on that.
	Well, that's good that you and Destiny agree on something.
	Lucas donated $69.
	Thank you, Lucas.
	Just imagine having to rely on this Eel Castrati to storm the beaches of Normandy.
	Complete and utter lack of testicular fortitude.
	Do you want to respond to the lack of testicular fortitude accusations?
	I just don't understand where that's even coming from.
	Just because I like women.
	I don't get it.
	I don't get it.
	Okay.
	All right.
	We got another one coming in.
	Selena.
	Yes, Lucas.
	Thank you very much.
	Celine Legorn is donated $69.
	He literally wants us to take the blue pill and stay in the simulation.
	Give me two red pills immediately.
	If the red pill's working for you, you can already see this poor guy is a clown.
	If the red pill is working for you, go for it.
	Take another dose.
	If the red pill is helping you in your life, take another dose.
	Go for it.
	Okay.
	Got no more walls coming in here in just a minute.
	Thank you.
	No more walls.
	More vows donated $69.
	One, seriously, the worst male guest ever eat to raised two boys, myself from birth and are in their 20s, which I thank God turned out the opposite of this fool.
	3.
	BET, he cucks for his mom and best friend.
	I hope your boys don't take the red pill.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	No more walls.
	We got a star seven runless calls and donated to the city.
	I'd rather that than the red pill.
	I believe that if a father has a child, they should take care of it.
	That's what I believe.
	What if they just give sperm?
	If that's a contractual agreement, then fine.
	Then what if they have a contractual agreement with the woman before they is the case that men began to have women sign contracts that if they got pregnant, the men bore no responsibility.
	Hang on, hang on.
	I just want, let me finish a question.
	Okay.
	Right?
	That men bore no responsibility whatsoever and they signed it.
	You would want the state to not be to enforce that, right?
	Yeah, if it's a if it's a contract between two people and that's what they agreed to, that's fine.
	Then welcome to the red pill.
	That's not it.
	Okay.
	Certainly not red pill.
	Yeah, that's a very red pill position.
	Thank you, Spyro.
	This Joker wants to help men with depression.
	Also, he says they have no agency over their kids and removes agency from involuntary celibates who definitionally can't do shit about their in-sale ness.
	Spyro, thank you for that.
	Appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	And then we have this chat.
	Then we're going to do closing statements.
	Powered by Assis donated $100.
	Romania and Poland, we are the front line against Russian influence.
	For the love of God, vote wisely in the coming presidential election.
	Votnik is a dan and against Russian propaganda and ideology.
	Well, you can't be Poland or Polish.
	There's no way you could have written that.
	All right.
	So here's what we're going to do.
	We're going to do a closing statement.
	You're going to go first with your closing statement, Andrew.
	You have final word.
	My closing statement is simple.
	If the red pill is working for you, by all means, continue consuming the content.
	But if it's not, I implore you to seek other alternatives.
	If you are depressed, if you're lonely, I encourage you to seek help because a lot of the people in this community are struggling and I hate to see it.
	And the people I've talked to that are in this community that say, you know, you're giving me hope for the first time, that's all I'm trying to do.
	And maybe I didn't make the best argument because I'm not a debater.
	I came here for the specific purpose and it's to try to help men in the red pill.
	And if I did, great.
	If I didn't, oh, well, so be it.
	I gave it a shot.
	All right, Andrew.
	Go ahead with your closing statement.
	Well, it all just comes down to ignorance.
	So the ideas just haven't been thought through by my opponent.
	I don't think he's a bad person, ultimately, though he does really advocate for a lot of degeneracy.
	But what's new?
	What's he bringing to you that's new?
	Like, what is he saying to you?
	He's saying, what?
	Basically, the only things I could really get out of him was switch up your preferences.
	And I don't really have a good definition of masculinity or a good definition of femininity.
	I don't have anything that's rigid.
	That sounds basically like gender abolition, essentially.
	That's what it sounded like to me.
	Okay.
	He's shaking his head.
	So yeah, probably something akin to that.
	This is all just progressive ideology repackaged as I actually care about incels.
	I actually care about fucking people, you know, men.
	I actually, they don't give a fuck.
	Here's the thing, right?
	It all comes down to this.
	The truth is, is that you, all of you in this audience, are a threat to progressive ideology.
	And so they're going to tell you that the people who are the closest to your ideology, who represent your worldview, are the bad guys and the enemy and this and that.
	And then when they give you the prescriptions, what do they give you?
	Fucking nothing.
	What are the alternatives?
	He said, I don't know.
	What should we do?
	I don't know.
	What's masculinity?
	I don't know.
	What's feminine?
	I don't know.
	Right?
	If I try to get a definition out of him, I'm being bad faith.
	If I debate too good, I'm bad faith.
	If I do any of these things, I'm bad faith.
	If I even want to finish his sentence, I'm bad faith.
	All of this just leads me to this.
	It comes from a state of ignorance, and he doesn't realize he's prescribing the same shit that got us here to begin with.
	If we go back and we see the, what does he say?
	He says the same thing feminists say to me all the time, right?
	He wants to take us back to the 1950s.
	And if you ask him, like, okay, well, actually, let's just say I was.
	What's so bad about the 1950s anyway?
	Well, I don't know.
	You know, I don't know anything.
	I just, I don't know anything.
	I'm not really here to prescribe anything.
	I just fucking don't know nothing.
	And it's like, well, okay, that's fine.
	But the difference between this guy and Destiny is, well, thank God for him.
	He doesn't, I hope.
	I don't think you do.
	You don't let you're not in an open relationship, right?
	Okay, good, okay, good.
	The difference between him and Destiny is like, yeah, maybe he doesn't let people plow his wife, but his prescriptions for things like this are just unfettered degeneracy.
	It's like, do what, do whatever you want.
	It's the Crowley and do as thou wilt.
	There is no duties.
	There is no virtues, right?
	All these things are very fluid.
	And then, and then we just end up with, well, just kind of do what works.
	And it's like, well, then if that's the case, then even if this didn't work, what alternative would work?
	I don't know.
	And so the whole thing's incoherence nonsense.
	It's not that I don't like this guy.
	It's just that like it's very frustrating for me because I'm literally here to oppose this very ideology.
	And I don't even get the benefit of having him fucking even tell me what it is because he doesn't know.
	And so it's like, it's sitting there squeezing a toothpaste that moves there.
	Then you pin it down, it moves here.
	And so it's like, can I even match my worldview for prescriptions against his?
	I can't because I'm willing to give him and he's not.
	And that's it.
	Can I add one more thing?
	They can't add it after close, dude.
	If Andrew's willing to grant it otherwise.
	It's kind of in your benefit, I think.
	I'm trying to like, so maybe I don't have the exact thing that I can prescribe to get out of the red pill.
	But if it is Christianity, if it is that kind of community, then I implore you to do that.
	You know, like that's totally fine.
	Well, let me ask this last question then, since I get the last word on this one.
	What if it's the case that Christianity was 10 times more oppressive towards women than anything the red pill wanted to do, but it made men feel a lot better?
	Would you prescribe it then?
	Probably not.
	Yeah, I didn't think so.
	So yeah, he's right.
	Come over to Christianity, especially based ass traditional Christianity.
	They're way worse when it comes to the question of egalitarianism than any of the fucking red pillars could ever dream of.
	And he hates it.
	And he should.
	Before you leave here right now, Andrew, really quick, here's what we'll do.
	So it sounds like you're both open to doing a round two.
	So we'll maybe schedule that for a future date.
	And also, Andrew's going to take off.
	But guys, if you want to stay tuned for a little bit, Raphael is going to stick around for a little bit and we're going to do a little roast session.
	And if any of you have any questions for Raphael, you're welcome to stay tuned.
	But Andrew needs to get some Z's.
	He needs some Z's.
	I am sorry.
	I mean, I'm sorry.
	Unless you want the burger.
	I can get you to the business.
	I'm always a good quarterback.
	I'm going to always stay for all these shows and stuff, but I'm just so fucking tired today because of all this travel.
	But I will see you tomorrow, refreshed, right?
	And Brian doesn't know it yet, but he needs me at my best.
	This is, no, we do need Andrew Fresh.
	And speaking of which, final thing here before Andrew leaves, we have Andrew for a debate tomorrow on Friday.
	We have him for a debate on Saturday.
	We're doing a dating talk panel Sunday.
	We have a debate on Monday, and then we have a special show on Tuesday.
	So, this is a long week.
	So, I know maybe you guys would have liked to have seen this go a bit longer, but you know, we got to recuperate a bit.
	So, Andrew, thank you so much for coming.
	Yeah, for those of you who might be listening, you're like, you know, fucking Andrew's being a bus.
	Look, I literally didn't sleep.
	I haven't slept for basically 24 hours.
	I got off a plane and came right here to do this debate.
	So, like, a little mercy from the chat.
	I know that all of them are going to spam L's anyway, and I deserve it, but you know, a little mercy.
	You know what, though?
	M for mercy.
	If you guys keep the roast going for about seven, eight hours, once Andrew wakes up, and if we're still going, that's probably not going to happen.
	But Andrew, thank you for coming.
	We're going to continue the roast session.
	Always a pleasure to have you.
	See you next time.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And, you know, we need to put, I feel like we need something there.
	But, anyways, I'm going to let some of the there's more chats coming through.
	I'm going to let them come through.
	Let's see here, Raphael.
	Let's see what the viewers are saying.
	One sec, guys.
	It's taken me a sec to get it pulled up here.
	We have a question from the Glocktavius.
	He says this.
	Glocktavius donated $69.
	Is it straight to date a transgender woman?
	Would you date a transgender woman?
	That's for you.
	I personally wouldn't, and I don't know.
	I think maybe it's in the queer territory.
	I have no idea.
	I don't know how to define it.
	Is it straight, though?
	I don't know.
	I don't know if I'd be able to define that.
	No.
	Andrew, grab one of those beers on your way out, by the way.
	One of the beers from the refrigerator if you'd like.
	Okay, thank you, Glocktavius, for that.
	We have this.
	He has a follow-up question for you.
	Glocktavius donated $69.
	Do you think black people can be racist towards white people?
	Do you think women can be sexist towards men?
	If not, define racism and sexism.
	No, because I think racism and sexism often involves prejudice plus power.
	So if you're, let's say, I'm going to make an example, and this is a wild example, but let's say you're afraid of a certain minority group.
	You don't want to walk on the same side of the street as them.
	I consider that prejudice.
	But if that same person comes in for a job at your company and you say, no, I'm not going to hire you because of this, that's what I consider racist.
	So it's similar with sexism as well.
	Same for both.
	Same for both.
	Prejudice.
	Prejudice plus power for their identity.
	Okay.
	All right.
	That's from Glocktavius.
	Well, if not, oh, well, you did define it then.
	You did define racism and sexism, prejudice plus power.
	Is there any scenario in which a woman could be sexist towards a man?
	If she's in power to do so, yes.
	Okay, so if she owns a company and she refused to hire men, that would be sexist.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	All right.
	There's some consistency there then.
	We have Archduke France.
	Archduke France Fartenance.
	Fartin.
	A female politician said women have always been the primary victims of war.
	Women lose their husbands.
	Baba Booi Baba Butlers.
	Their sons in combat.
	Do you agree that women are the primary victims of war?
	I mean, I think most men die in war, so I don't see how they're the primary victims, but I do think war has casualties for each gender for sure.
	So would you say men are the primary victims of war?
	I think so.
	Okay.
	I mean, do people say otherwise?
	Well, so that quote's actually from Hillary Clinton.
	Oh, she said that shit in the 90s, and she actually repeated it again like a year or two ago in relation to the Ukraine war.
	Women have always been the primary victims of war.
	That's what she said.
	Would you agree?
	Do you agree with her or disagree?
	I don't think I agree with that, but I haven't put any more thought into it.
	But I just feel like if men are the mass casualties of war, then they're probably the biggest victim, I would imagine, just from a quick thought.
	We got more chats coming through.
	Really quick, though, before we do that, guys, Venmo, Cash App, whatever pod, if you want 100% of your contribution to go towards the show, like the video, please.
	Also, Mary, if you could pull up Twitch, guys, go to twitch.tv/slash/whatever on your way out.
	If you're leaving the stream, you know, maybe me and Raphael are going to get into a little debate here.
	Who knows?
	I'd love that.
	Drop us a follow and a prime sub on guys.
	It's been 46 minutes.
	I think it's bugged, boys.
	I think it's bugged.
	Twitch the Twitch subs are bugged.
	Can somebody check if there's a little Twitch Prime in the chat?
	Dreambender TV thing for the Prime, though.
	Drop us a follow in the Prime sub over there on Twitch.
	Would really appreciate it.
	Also, discord.gg, shoptop whatever.com.
	We're doing a $69 roast session.
	Get it in.
	If you want to roast, you can roast me.
	It's really cheap, guys.
	Roast Rafael.
	It's really cheap.
	Roast roast Rafael.
	Maybe roast him a little bit.
	I'm a soy boy, beta cup.
	Let's go.
	You roast him.
	Roast him.
	All right.
	We have Tone Police Patriarchy.
	Here we go.
	Thank you for this.
	Thank you for that.
	Tone Police Patriarchy donated $69.
	Reformed feminist here.
	Red Pill saved me.
	Feminist ideology brought several of my peers to take matters into their own hands.
	Your view of Red Pill is incorrect.
	Dig deeper, please.
	Great show, gentlemen.
	Thank you, Tone Police Patriarchy.
	It's interesting.
	I mean, look, if whatever ideology is driving you to be depressed, lonely, isolated, angry, you know, I would prescribe you get away from it.
	If, you know, I don't know.
	I just know the statistics and the peer-reviewed studies say that red pill, you know, content creators kind of create that in their audience.
	And that's what every study kind of says.
	So, and I think this loneliness epidemic is only going to lead to more men unalives.
	And that's what I don't want because I know what it's like to feel depressed.
	I know what it's like to feel like you don't want to keep going.
	And so I want to help people find a way out of that.
	Do you think that feminism is sort of similar to Red Pill, or do you think they're different?
	There's a difference of advocacy of what they're talking about, but you think it's like the counterimage?
	No, I think misandry is probably the closest thing to what red pill ideology is because I don't think there's necessarily an equivalent for women on that side.
	But I do think that my personal definition of feminism, and I think a lot of people's today, is just equal opportunity regardless of outcome.
	So that's what I view as feminism.
	Equal opportunity.
	Would you be in favor of the draft military draft for women?
	I don't consider that equal opportunity.
	What do you mean?
	For example, an opportunity would be.
	Well, I don't think the draft is an opportunity for men or women.
	Agreed, agreed.
	So I'm not really talking about equality of opportunity, but it would be equality if both right and women were subject to equality.
	But I'm not pushing for necessarily full equality.
	I'm pushing for equality.
	Why not?
	Because that's not my definition.
	My definition is equal opportunity.
	If a man has the opportunity to do something and a woman is just as capable of doing said thing, then do it.
	Now, my definition, if you're talking about conscription, if a woman is as capable of a soldier as somebody else and the country decides that's what, that's, you know, that's what we should go, then go for it.
	But I don't think we should just start drafting anybody.
	I think it is about, and also, for the record, do you know how many, what percentage of men were drafted for Vietnam?
	I think, wasn't it like a couple hundred thousand?
	No, but what percentage of the male population at the time?
	It's like 2%.
	So it's not that big of a thing.
	And in the 20th century, only 9%.
	Hold on, it's not that big.
	I thought your whole thing here, though, was like, I want to reduce the unaliving rate of men.
	I want to reduce.
	Let's get rid of conscription.
	Right, but you're saying it's not that big of a thing.
	I think the Vietnam veterans who were drafted who either are still alive, who have PTSD or depression, who are homeless, whatever it is, or the ones who are dead, I probably disagree with you.
	That's a small thing.
	No, you're right.
	I shouldn't have said it like that.
	I'm saying it's a small percentage of the population, that it's not happening to the vast majority of men.
	So I think the vast majority of men aren't ever going to be drafted.
	It's never going to be a thing simply because in the 20th century, only 9% of the total male population has been drafted.
	So that's still more than I'd like.
	Wait in the 20th century.
	Only 9% of the male population has ever been drafted.
	That's a lot of men.
	I agree.
	That's a lot of men.
	But it's not the majority.
	And it's not the vast majority.
	It's not even close.
	Well, all men have to register for the selective service.
	Agreed.
	So there's inequalities.
	While I agree with you that we might be in peacetime or there might be periods of peacetime where there's men aren't going to be drafted, there are still ramifications for not registering for the selective service.
	Sure.
	And all men have to register for the selective service.
	One of the big things we were talking about was voting.
	In order to be eligible to vote as a man, you have to register for the selective service.
	Failure to do so precludes you from the ability to vote.
	Sure.
	I don't necessarily see that as an opportunity.
	I see that as something I would say.
	Well, yeah, I'm just talking about equality in general.
	But I'm not really prescribing equality across the board.
	I'm saying equal opportunity.
	So if a man is able to make a decision in his own life to do something and a woman is just as capable of doing the same thing, she should do it too.
	I'll engage with you on equality of opportunity.
	Women have the opportunity to not be subject to selective service and forced military conscription.
	It's like an opportunity, right?
	But so are you in favor of just abolishing the draft entirely?
	Ideally, yes.
	Okay, but do you think that that's politically tenable?
	I think so.
	I think we have a large enough volunteer army, and I also think wars in the future aren't going to be necessarily boots on the ground.
	I think wars in the future are going to be either cyber or they're going to be drones or they're going to be, we have air superiority.
	I don't think it's going to be boots on the ground unless something crazy happens.
	I mean, let's talk about the two most modern conflicts.
	So you have the war in the Middle East and then you have the Ukraine war.
	Are there not boots on the ground?
	Are men not being drafted into these conflicts?
	Sure, but they're not being drafted.
	There wasn't a draft in Iraq.
	There wasn't a draft in Afghanistan.
	Well, I'm talking about Ukraine and I'm talking about the United States.
	Oh, you're talking about the United States?
	Right, yes.
	Okay, yeah, there hasn't been a draft since Vietnam.
	Right.
	But in Ukraine, there is forced military conscription and they abduct men into the streets.
	I don't agree to that.
	I mean, maybe if it's like things are so dire, that's what we have to do.
	I mean, I hope we never get to that point.
	But in an ideal world, we have a large enough in the U.S., we have a large enough volunteer army, and we have technological advancements that are superior to our adversaries.
	So I don't think it's going to be a boots on the ground war unless something crazy happens to the world.
	Yeah, but so given, so I mean, we can talk about should the draft go away, but since it is a reality, the draft is a reality or selective service is a reality, shouldn't women be obligated to sign up as well?
	I don't think so, no.
	Why?
	I think because men are more capable in war.
	That's why.
	And I think that's what you'd rather have.
	Yeah, but I mean, so I saw a stat, and maybe somebody in the military in the chat can weigh in.
	In order to field one combat soldier, you need 10 support roles in the military.
	So if you want like frontline combat soldier, you need 10 people in support roles, administration to enable that one individual on the front line.
	So there are roles that women could serve.
	Look, even if women were subject to forced military conscription, it's probably unlikely that they would encounter frontline combat.
	I personally think that's still unequal.
	I guess I would accept that they should at least be subject to forced military conscription, but there's plenty of roles in the military that women can, you know, the pencil pushers.
	Sure.
	Pencil pushers.
	Here's what I'll say.
	I think men should still be the primary people that have to serve.
	I mean, again, if I could get rid of the draft, I would.
	If we have just a volunteer army and technological investments to combat our enemies.
	But should a draft, if something terrible happens and we have to draft, I still think primarily let's draft men because they're more capable at combat and in the front lines.
	But if we desperately need the help and women can be in the support role, then you know, maybe that's a discussion to have.
	Honestly, I think we should just draft women for frontline combat.
	I don't think that's a good idea.
	That's kind of sexist of you.
	I don't think I'm preventing this.
	No.
	You don't believe in strong, independent boss babes.
	I do.
	And if there are women, in my definition of feminism, if there are women who would like to go to the front lines because they feel capable enough, then go for it.
	But I'm not saying they should be forced to.
	I think I honestly we draft them.
	It's kind of like, you know, we've had hundreds, hundreds, thousands of years of forced military conscription for men.
	Maybe just like test it out for like a century.
	Just send the women to war.
	You're not serious, though.
	And televise it.
	And we should televise it.
	This isn't for you're not for real, right?
	This isn't for real.
	I mean, look, if this idea that men are better suited for war.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, you're right.
	But what if everybody just we all agreed, eh, let's just let the women do a bit of the fighting for a century.
	It's just women versus women, so it's kind of, you know.
	Oh, I see what you're saying.
	It's not women versus the board.
	Like, I think for the equality of opportunity, we should allow women to have post-traumatic stress disorder and, you know, just like get a get an artillery shell in the in the gullet.
	I'm in favor.
	What would the men be doing?
	We would be, what are the women doing in Ukraine?
	We'd be on Tinder, sleeping with the women who didn't get drafted.
	We would, we would be kicking it.
	We'd be kicking it.
	We'd be mowing lawns and shit.
	And I mean, that is an interesting hypothetical, but you're not for it?
	I'm not.
	I'm not.
	Because again, my loose definition of masculinity is doing the right thing because it's the right thing.
	And I think men.
	Yeah, what's the right thing?
	The right thing in this situation is protect women.
	That's what I feel like.
	Protect women.
	Yes.
	I think the right thing would be in the event of a war, all the countries just agree.
	All the countries agree.
	Okay, we're just going to have women.
	You know, we're all feminists now.
	We're going to have the women fight.
	Just test it out.
	And then, but we get to televise it too.
	I mean, we already do that with the war.
	I just don't think that's necessarily feminism.
	I mean, here's a loose example.
	The women get to fight.
	No, it's an equal opportunity.
	It's not.
	It's an equal opportunity.
	That's not an opportunity.
	No one thinks being the frontline.
	You don't want to be an opportunity for women to die?
	No.
	I certainly don't.
	That is misogynistic, sir.
	I want you to apologize to all the women watching that you don't want equal opportunity for women to die.
	So the way I see it, and this is a stupid example, but it's the first one that came to mind.
	If you're on an airplane and you see someone struggling to put their suitcase up, do you get up and do it?
	If I see somebody struggling in the carry-on.
	I'm just asking.
	When you're on an airplane and you see someone struggling, I'm not even saying anybody.
	I'm not even saying anything.
	Anybody?
	I'm not saying anything.
	If someone is struggling, sure, I'll help.
	That's kind of how I feel masculinity is.
	I'm capable enough to do this thing.
	I should do it.
	That's how I feel.
	I think we should help women get drafted into the military and let them do a bit of the dying.
	I don't believe you.
	I think they should.
	I think the women should do a bit of a drink.
	Are you doing it?
	Are these your drump hands?
	Okay, I think we should have some of the women do a bit of the dying, just equal it out a little bit.
	You know, a little bit of shell shock, you know, a little bit of mortars.
	Let them experience some mortars.
	Trench warfare, trench warfare is back in Ukraine.
	They got trenches.
	You see the drones dropping the grenades?
	You seeing that?
	Yeah, let's maybe look.
	Let's get women to do it.
	I don't agree.
	I don't agree.
	Have you got anything?
	I'm the actual real feminist here.
	You seem like a bit of a red pill podcast, bro, with your, you know, men are supposed to men are supposed to protect women.
	That's very, you know, that's.
	I think men should protect the innocent, and I think men should protect people that can't protect themselves.
	That's what I believe.
	So the women are the innocent, and the men are what?
	The devils?
	No, if I'm not saying men are, I'm not giving a judgment on men.
	I'm not giving a judgment on anybody necessarily, but if somebody can't defend themselves, I think men should.
	That's all.
	Men should.
	Yeah.
	No, but that's what I'm saying.
	With the war, we just make that shit all women.
	We have a United Nations.
	We have them agree.
	Okay, for the next 100 years, all the men, you know, they're not going to fight.
	We're going to send the women to fight.
	I think that you're not on board with that?
	Do you get on board with that?
	Do you think that would be good?
	You're not on board with that, Rafael?
	I'm not.
	Do you think that would be good for the general population and in terms of us, you know, continuing our population?
	Do you think that would be a good thing?
	Yeah, it'd be good.
	Okay.
	It'd be good.
	Okay.
	Man, you know, you send the feminists to fight.
	Send the feminists to fight or send the anti-natalists.
	Because, like, look, if you're a woman and you're pregnant, you can get out of it.
	But don't you want women to be getting pregnant during this time?
	Look, we're going to put a cap.
	Only 10%, only 10% of the women can fight.
	That's it.
	We won't send more.
	Just 10%.
	That's it.
	That's a weird rule when you're having a war where you're like, hey, we're only going to send 10% of our troops.
	You guys agree to that?
	I just don't think that works.
	I mean, again, I don't think anyone would in this hypothetical.
	10% of the population.
	So just why, but don't you think we should send women?
	I don't.
	To war?
	Why?
	I don't.
	I just don't, because I don't think that.
	Do you think they're capable?
	I think men are more capable than women.
	Men are more capable.
	In war, yes.
	Okay.
	All right.
	We got some chats coming through, but I got some more things I want to talk to you about.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Let me let some of the chats through.
	Sorry for the delay, guys, but I'm sitting next to a misogynist who doesn't want women drafted, and it's really frustrating.
	I'm really upset by this whole, you know, the sexism is just, I feel the sexism coming from you, man.
	It's a little upsetting to me, but okay, I'm really a wolf.
	Luke has donated $69.
	Dude, with the exception of you, next soy boy lives as your target audience.
	You have absolutely not a chance in hell in changing any man's mind.
	Red pill plus Christian ethics equals society's salvation.
	I already have changed people's minds, but that's okay.
	You know what?
	Oh, wait, never mind.
	Okay.
	Celine McGorn is donated $69.
	The red pill is the alternative.
	It's the rejection of do what you want all the time, and that is what's working.
	Have standards.
	Hold men and women to those standards.
	Seek Christ.
	Are you a religious man?
	Are you agnostic?
	You're atheist?
	I call it agnostic.
	Agnostic.
	Okay.
	Jason Castle donated 69.
	Thank you, Jason Castle.
	Feminist man and I will literally fight you.
	Brian, set up this fight.
	Oh, my God.
	Andrew, this is why I don't consider myself a good debater because I would have fought this dummy.
	Make a class on how to be patient.
	Wow.
	I don't know, Jason.
	I got some hands, dude.
	I don't know.
	Were you getting angry at Andrew during there was a moment there where you told him to shut the fuck up and I thought you were about to get up and throw some hands.
	No, Andrew yells that all the time.
	I'm just giving him his own medicine.
	You gave him a taste.
	I gave him a taste of the mental health.
	Okay, all right.
	That's it.
	I was pretty calm through the whole thing.
	All right.
	Look, we got another chat coming in.
	Nameless.
	Thank you for it.
	Nameless name, seven donated $69.
	Yo, Rafa, you seem like a decent person, Rafa.
	But you need to think for yourself and stop letting the world shape your opinions.
	You say you want people to leave Red Pill, but you also prescribe it.
	I don't see how I prescribed it beyond saying, hey, if it's working for you, if you're living a happy life, if you're getting what you want out of relationships and friendships, okay, I'm not going to tell you to change.
	But if you're not, I'm prescribing you consider alternatives.
	That's all I'm saying.
	You know, this is what I think is going to happen.
	You do that second debate with Andrew.
	I think you might become Red Pill.
	It's not going to happen.
	I think it could happen.
	I love my life too much.
	I just don't know why I would switch.
	My life is great.
	I live in Orange County.
	Your life would be even better.
	It can't be.
	It might be better.
	I live in Orange County.
	I have two great dogs.
	I have a wonderful wife.
	I'm happy with my life.
	I don't know.
	I don't know why that would need anything else.
	Wait, how old are you, by the way?
	I turned 41 in August.
	41.
	Okay.
	And you don't want kids, is that correct?
	That's correct.
	And how old's your wife, if you don't mind me?
	She's 30.
	She'll be 38.
	Okay.
	And did you, like, when you started dating her, did you know going in, like, or maybe both of you had a conversation, you don't want kids?
	Yeah, we started that early.
	Yeah.
	We started that conversation early.
	But how are you going to build more blue pill?
	You said you're blue pill, right?
	How are you going to have more blue?
	You got to, because if, you know, the Christians are out, you know, having more kids.
	Well, here's what I'll say to that.
	I don't think that's the dogs can't be blue pill.
	Dogs are red pill.
	Honestly, my dogs are a red pill, dude.
	My dogs are trumpers.
	It's really a little bit of a pressure.
	What breed?
	What breed?
	I got a lab mix and a labs.
	Lab pill.
	Red pill.
	Super red pill.
	They're super magical.
	What's the other one?
	He's like a hound mix.
	A hound?
	Oh, that's very red pill.
	Red pill.
	They're very red pill.
	They told me when I came here, I was going to lose it to Andrew.
	Yeah, dude.
	It's really fucked up.
	You speak to dogs.
	I speak to dogs.
	That's part of the blue pill.
	But one of the things that I'll say.
	Oh, wait, you had something serious a second ago.
	Oh, about having kids.
	I don't necessarily think, and I think a lot of parents would agree that just because you have a kid doesn't mean the kid is going to follow your worldview.
	A lot of kids are born into religious families and then they end up being atheists.
	So I think you can't say, I'm going to make more people because they're going to follow my ideology.
	I want to take care of the people that exist today and have them consider a different ideology.
	That's why you got to, you can't let them have a smartphone until they're 18.
	Hey, look.
	Hey, I didn't have a smartphone until I was 18 and I stopped being Catholic.
	So that's not because it's smartphone.
	It didn't exist around, you know, at the time.
	But, and I got to say, look, I got a flip phone when I was in high school.
	Nice.
	And so you were rich.
	Oh, yeah, just piles of money with my little shitty Samsung or whatever it was.
	I'm just kidding, man.
	But, you know, I kind of feel bad for the kids today.
	Like, at 10 years old, you got access.
	I agree.
	Great.
	Well, you know what, though?
	I had the internet.
	I had the internet.
	But the internet back then wasn't what it is today.
	In the 2000s, the internet, there was some crazy shit.
	Yeah.
	I mean, the thing is, even like, to get a little more serious, but like the people that are finding red pill, it's because the YouTube algorithm is often recommending it to people.
	It's just kind of like happens.
	They just like go on YouTube and all of a sudden now they're red-pilled.
	Yeah, you know, the thing is, though, is like feminism is mainstream.
	That shit is forced down your fucking throat.
	And I'll tell you this.
	I'll tell you this, Raphael.
	Let me tell you about the feminism, okay?
	Here's the thing about the feminism: you got the university, you got colleges, every single university college in this country.
	Let me tell you, every single one has a woman's studies, a feminist studies, a gender dice clay, a gender studies program.
	I'm telling you, it's indoctrination, the feminism mind virus indoctrinated into these women, into these men.
	Did you take a feminist class?
	You went to college, right?
	You got a bachelor's of arts of advertising.
	Did you take a feminism class in college?
	I did not.
	You took feminism, did you?
	I never did.
	Tell us the truth.
	You took feminism classes.
	Never did.
	Never did.
	No.
	And I don't remember being indoctrinated to anything in college.
	In fact, I went to college in the panhandle of Florida, which is very fucking red.
	Oh, that's base.
	And I don't remember having anything.
	How did you turn out like this?
	Well, I thought for myself, you're from fucking Florida and you became a feminist.
	What the fuck?
	And it wasn't Florida right now.
	It was Florida 20 fucking years ago.
	Exactly.
	Yeah.
	And I'm telling you, like the guy said, I just learned a thing for myself.
	That's all.
	Am I being cringe or is it kind of funny?
	I think it's kind of funny.
	It's kind of funny.
	All right, we got more chats coming through.
	All right.
	Anon, thank you very much.
	Anon donated $69.
	Thank you.
	Depressed and angry people search out RP who can be bitter and hateful, Ellie.
	Long-term RP is amazing for men.
	It pushes to get a great vetted partner.
	Go to the gym, get a job, and get a social life.
	Hey, Anon, if that's what you're getting out of it, that's great.
	I mean, I think going to the gym is great.
	Taking care of your body is great.
	I think having a great social life is great.
	I think picking a good partner is great.
	Josh Brooks donated 60.
	So you don't think it's a good idea for women to be in combat, but are okay with them going if they want.
	What would it look like to you if it was 50-50 women to mend boots on ground?
	Describe that plaza.
	What would it look like?
	I mean, it would look like 50-50.
	I don't know.
	I don't know what it would look like.
	I mean, ideally, men would probably be more in the combat roles because, again, I think they're more capable in that scenario.
	But if some terrible thing happens and women have to go to, well, then I hope they're supportive.
	That's kind of how I see it.
	You know, what, so, okay, when it comes to duties, though, so men, we were talking about the draft earlier.
	Yeah.
	And this, you would agree, is a duty that men have that women don't.
	Which part?
	A conscription?
	Yeah, conscription.
	At most 10% of men have that duty, yes.
	Well, all men are subject to the potentialities of the draft.
	That's correct.
	I agree with you.
	Not all men will be drafted.
	Most men won't be drafted ever, but they do still have to register for the selective service.
	If they don't, there's certain, it's technically a felony.
	There's a fine.
	You can't get certain federal student loans.
	There's certain federal jobs that you're barred from if you fail to register.
	And I think there's maybe one or two other things that are evading me right now.
	But I'm just, I'm curious, though, what, like, what duty do women have to either men or to society?
	I just don't necessarily prescribe duty.
	If I'm legally obligated a duty, that's different than what I think is just an inherent duty.
	Something that you're just coming to this world without anyone asking if you want to be here and being prescribed duties off the gate.
	I don't necessarily think, I don't believe that.
	If there are duties, do you not believe though?
	I don't believe that you inherently have duties just because you're born.
	But I mean, so every single male in the United States, once they turn 18, have to register for the selective service.
	And an entailment of that is in the event of some wartime conflict where there is a draft, someone could be forced to And die or serve in the military, that's a duty.
	Sure.
	That's an exclusively male duty.
	What duties do women have?
	But it's through the legal system.
	If the legal system changed that, then it wouldn't be a duty anymore.
	So sure, I agree.
	So, if we didn't have that anymore, it would no longer be a duty.
	And I don't necessarily think men have a duty outside of anything legal.
	If my personal worldview is that men should help whoever they can because they're capable of it.
	Whoever is the most capable should help.
	That's one duty.
	No.
	Like, do men have a duty to protect women?
	No, if a guy decides he doesn't want to.
	Men don't have a duty to protect women.
	I don't necessarily think everyone has that duty.
	I think men who subscribe to my version of masculinity, they would feel that need, but not everybody would.
	Do you think men should protect women?
	In an ideal world, yes, but I'm not going to say you must.
	I don't believe in musts.
	So I think it's the same thing with women.
	Because I know a lot of people say, well, if men have to do this thing, then women's duty should be birth because that's what they do.
	And I just don't think we should see women that way personally.
	I have a question for you.
	When it does come to the draft, and I know it sounds like you would like to abolish the draft.
	Is that the ideally?
	Yeah.
	Okay, but given that governments and nations will not relinquish the ability or the right to force its citizenry into a military conflict if the government has deemed it necessary to do so, again, what would women's duty or what should women's duties be under the current system?
	I don't have one.
	I don't have any kind of prescription for that.
	Would you say this, for example?
	So one of the arguments for why women aren't subject to military conscription is in the example of some catastrophic war, you ought to protect the women because they would be able to repopulate the nation.
	Yeah, they could repopulate the nation because you could have one man impregnate 100 women.
	It doesn't work the other way.
	Yeah, I've heard that.
	But do you think, for example, like let me ask you this.
	Granting that a specific government is not going to get rid of the draft, you would agree that, well, I mean, this might even be your own position.
	Let's say there's a belligerent nation, and this is hypothetical.
	So let's talk about the United States.
	Let's say China decides to invade us, and you know that the doctrine of the Chinese invading force or the government or whatever it is, they're going to, if they successfully invade the United States, they're going to put all the men to the sword and they're going to take all the women as war brides and they're essentially going to essay all the women.
	And as the U.S. military currently stands in this hypothetical, with just the volunteer force, the volunteer force would not be capable of the military intelligence they do have.
	The military force would not be able to repel or defeat the invading Chinese army military.
	However, you know with certainty if you were to draft men that you would be able to repel the invading Chinese military force.
	Would you under this circumstance force men to fight?
	Let's say you were the dictator of the United States, I think I would, under my worldview, because if I think the right thing to do is to try to protect the innocent even though innocent men are also involved in this I think it's still the right thing to do and it sucks, but I think that's kind of what I think right, and I think perhaps the calculation here is, you know that by forcing these men to go and fight, you are sending men to go and die,
	and men will go and die right, innocent men.
	But if you don't they're going to die anyways and all the women are going to get graped by the invading Chinese.
	My question to you now is this, though, is that in a similar scenario, let's say we projected, we knew with certainty, I don't know, it's again hypothetical, in 20 years time, we knew that the Chinese were going to invade in 20 years, but we knew our population wasn't large enough to fend off this invading force.
	And the only solution to this would be to have a draft for women to give birth to children immediately so that we would have the necessary and requisite population in 20 years time to fend off this coming invasion.
	Would you instill a birth draft?
	And to be clear, the women could pick their partners and have consensual sex, but the government would essentially say, you must do this.
	You must have children.
	Otherwise, all the men are going to be put to the sword and you guys will all get great.
	I would not force it.
	If that was, if women wanted, couples and husbands and wives wanted to volunteer for that, fine, but I would not make it a mandatory thing.
	But if you didn't make it a mandatory thing, there wouldn't be enough people that would want to do it.
	The entailment of it would be if not enough women gave birth, there wouldn't be a substantial enough fighting age population in 20 years time.
	And so in this instance, even if you're forcing, or if you don't force the women to give birth, then all the men get put to the sword and all the women get taken as war brides.
	I don't know.
	I have trouble with that.
	It just doesn't sit right.
	It's very handmaid's tail to me, and that just seems completely dystopian.
	So hypothetical.
	Yeah, I don't think that's something I would do if I was the leader of the country.
	I would either try to find another way or try to encourage people to do it on their own without it being forced.
	I think those would be my first two options.
	If push came to shove and it was they're gonna die anyway, then maybe there's something, but it's just I would try to other options first.
	Do you think giving birth is a when you otherwise wouldn't want to is like a bigger grievance than men dying?
	Not necessarily a bigger grievance, but it is an undertaking that takes quite some time and it's beyond just pregnancy.
	It's also raising the children and feeding the children and doing all that.
	So it's a longer engagement and men aren't guaranteed to die in the war.
	Some will.
	So I think if you're guaranteeing women to be forced to have pregnancies, I think that's different than the potential to die.
	Sure.
	We got some chats coming through.
	We have, give me one sec, guys, Jason Cassell.
	Uh-oh.
	Jason Castle donated $69.
	You really are an idiot.
	Over 8% of men were drafted during Vietnam.
	Around 33% of men were drafted in the 20th century in the USA.
	That's not true.
	You are a thing idiot.
	It's not true.
	I'd like to see your numbers.
	What Jason's saying is not true?
	Yeah, his numbers are too high.
	I don't know if he, you know what he's looking at, I think?
	He's looking at eligible.
	33%.
	Yeah, 8% and 33%.
	He's looking at eligible men for the draft instead of just the total male population.
	Yeah, but I mean, like, men who are in their 60s would impede drafts.
	Theoretically, we're all going to get to our 60s.
	So, Jason Cassell, can you clarify?
	Are you talking, because like the drafting age, I think, is between like 18 and 25, 26, I think?
	He's looking at eligible.
	I'm talking about total male population, people who have been drafted.
	Okay.
	Let's see here.
	We have Noodles.
	Thank you, man.
	Appreciate it.
	Guys, $69 TTS.
	$69.
	$69 TTS getting forward to the upcoming content.
	Brian, Raphael, why do you advocate for equal opportunity and not actual equality?
	I think RP is encouraged from this.
	Keep telling men life is tough, though.
	I don't know if I'm saying men life is tough.
	I don't remember if I said that, but I don't necessarily, my version of feminism is not forcing outcomes.
	It's forcing, or it's basically giving opportunity.
	So equality would be forcing outcomes.
	And I don't believe that's what it is.
	I think everyone, if they're capable, should have the opportunity to do something.
	That is my version of it.
	I don't think forcing equality is what I'm advocating for.
	All right, guys, $69 TTS.
	We have a few more coming in.
	We have Lucas again.
	Thank you, Lucas.
	Appreciate it.
	Thank you for staying.opportunity slash rights without reciprocal duties slash obligations.
	Men are more capable, therefore they should be happy to die.
	I mean, if the only prescription is that women's duties is that they should have children, I mean, I think that's lazy.
	I just think that's like, well, they should have kids.
	Like, no, I don't believe that.
	Wait, you should.
	You don't think women should have kids?
	As a duty.
	Oh, as a duty.
	Okay.
	Although, shouldn't it, perhaps it's not a duty for all women, but like, would you say maybe the majority of women should have children?
	I wouldn't, again, I wouldn't say should.
	I think the people who are deciding to have children today often are people who have made the calculated economic decision to do so, and they are in a better position to be good parents, in my opinion.
	So I think we're not necessarily looking for numbers and volume.
	I think we're looking for good parents and good families.
	I think that's the ideal, not volume.
	We have Najibi.
	Thank you for this.
	We donated $69.
	How do you define male privilege, women being oppressed, sexism or feminism?
	If you don't believe in our have definitions for sex or gender.
	I would say male privilege is mostly because we have men have mostly been the people in power.
	So they are less likely to have ever been oppressed.
	I mean, I know men go through oppression as well, but if you look at it from a perspective of women, they have been far more oppressed than men.
	Have they?
	Yes, I would make that case.
	How so?
	Because I believe oppression is the systematic denial of rights and resources.
	So for example, women couldn't go to college, women couldn't vote, women couldn't own land, women couldn't have bank accounts.
	That's more oppressive to me because it's systematic.
	Let's talk about voting for just a sec.
	What is the period of time, at least in the United States, that almost all or all men had the right to vote and women didn't?
	I don't remember.
	I don't know.
	Yeah, I think it's if I could be off by a couple years, but I believe it's 50 years.
	That's a period of time between when men, all men or almost all men had the right to vote and all women had the right to vote.
	Before that, most men, most women, they couldn't vote.
	Right.
	You had small groups of concentrated power.
	You had monarchies, very small people.
	Voting is really super new.
	Past couple hundred years.
	You go back even 200 years.
	Most men can vote.
	Most women can vote.
	The way that men got the right to vote is because they had to go to war.
	Yes, at a point in time, yeah, yeah.
	Right.
	Like if you, you, if you look at, so women got the right to vote in 1920, right?
	What happened just before then?
	World War I. World War I.
	And so it's interesting conveniently for women, and I suppose feminists, that they got the right to vote right after the most, at least at the time, World War II had higher casualty count.
	Although you could argue that in many ways World War I was much more brutal in many ways with the trench warfare.
	And the soldiers were on the front for way longer than they'd be in perpetuity on the front.
	Whereas in World War II, they'd shift out.
	Yeah, it was a bit different.
	But it was, World War II was also really bad.
	Yeah, of course.
	But the most barbaric war that had ever been seen up until that point, most casualties, et cetera, et cetera, women conveniently secured the right to vote right after it because one of the concerns of the suffragettes was, well, if we secure the right to vote as women, we're going to be subject to military conscription.
	Feminists were able to secure the right to vote without any corresponding responsibility.
	And that responsibility duty would be having to go to war.
	Sure.
	And so, I mean, and again, men got that because they had to basically be willing to die.
	They had to be willing to die.
	At one point, it wasn't that.
	Well, at one point, it was also land ownership and things like that.
	There were other differences too.
	But I mean, this idea, though, that men for like millennia had like all men.
	I will actually grant to you that like throughout most of human history, the men, which by the way was a very, very small percentage, like 0.001% of men had power.
	The rest were like the peasant.
	The peasantry.
	Class oppression, too.
	Right.
	But so like the top apex of men, yeah, they're the ones who did have power.
	But like that doesn't speak to the 99.99% of men who were just as oppressed and who had honestly, I would argue throughout history, at least my big argument here was as it relates to warfare, women have often been shielded by the barbarity of war.
	Absolutely.
	Women have been shielded from having to participate.
	They're protected typically.
	At least, you know, your own civilization, your own population, your own nation, your own society, women are protected.
	Yeah.
	Are protected.
	And so I mean.
	Yeah, I see what you're saying.
	I'm not denying that men have been oppressed.
	There's obviously been oppression of men as well.
	I think, though, as time progressed, men got more and more privileges that women didn't.
	Same with minorities.
	You know, there was oppression of minorities as well.
	You know, slaves had to appeal to white men in order to get free.
	You know, there's been oppression of different classes, races, and things like that.
	And men obviously have been oppressed too.
	But I think as time has progressed, men had more and more agency and women didn't.
	And I think even if you're talking about voting, let's take voting off the table.
	Just women being able to own land or women being able to have a certain job, those were taken from them.
	And that's why I define it as oppression.
	Now, voting, I think anyone should have the right to vote because it's their country.
	They have the right to say.
	I think if you're a disabled man, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to vote because you can't go to war.
	So I think in terms of denying resources and rights, women, minorities have had it worse than, let's say, white men in general.
	I mean, it's perhaps on that specific front, you said denial of resources and rights.
	Systematic denial of resources and rights.
	A systematic denial of resources and rights.
	Okay, so you're and the examples you provided were what?
	Like land ownership?
	Land ownership, certain jobs, going to school.
	Tell me, what year do you think women were allowed to own property and land?
	They weren't allowed to have, you know, debt and bank accounts and things like that for a long time.
	So they weren't owning land until, I mean, as far as I'm aware, they weren't owning land for quite some time.
	Women have always been able to own land.
	Okay, maybe that's a better example.
	Understanding of it is that when women were married, any property that she had became her essentially her husband's.
	That's my understanding of it.
	Oh, interesting.
	And if the marital couple, they owned land, it was like in his name.
	They got went with it.
	But women in the 1800s in the United States, 1900s, they could own land.
	Maybe that's a bad example.
	Maybe I'm wrong about that.
	For example, a father in his will could bequeath to, say, he only had daughters.
	If it was actually true that women could not own property or own land, in the event that a father, a father of only daughters, and he has, say, three, three, or even one remaining heir, one daughter, two daughters, three daughters, where would the property go to?
	Probably the daughters.
	So they could own property and they could own land.
	But I'm saying if a woman wanted to buy it, it's not just theoretically.
	In practice, women owned land.
	They could buy land.
	Okay, like I said, this might be a bad example, but that doesn't mean women could have their own resources to purchase land.
	Maybe they inherited it or maybe it came through something else.
	But women weren't able to work in high-paying jobs for a lot, high-paying jobs in this country for quite some time.
	Like I said, they couldn't practice medicine or finance or law 55 years ago.
	That's when 55, hold on.
	It's in the 1970s.
	Hold on.
	You're saying there were no female lawyers prior to the 1970s.
	That's correct.
	I'm going to have to, I need to fact check this.
	When you're serious, just to be clear, there were no female lawyers.
	Women could not practice law until around the 1970s.
	When could women practice law?
	And this was.
	Hold on.
	So I'm, and if you can correct me if I'm wrong, so the first formal admission of a woman to the bar was in 1869 with Arabella Mansfield's admission in Iowa.
	By 1879, federal law allowed qualified women to practice in any federal court, and Belva Lockwood became the first woman admitted to the bar of the Supreme Court.
	You're like a century off.
	1870, 1869, 1879.
	I'm telling you, I'm telling you, in large practice, women couldn't practice law or men.
	Until 1970s.
	That's correct.
	Where's the evidence for this?
	I looked it up.
	This claim is completely duped.
	I looked it up, dude.
	So you're saying by law they were precluded, excuse me.
	Same way women were precluded from going to school.
	Same way.
	Women could go to school to college?
	Yes.
	I believe there are perhaps some private schools that didn't allow them in.
	I think that's, I'm not denying that there weren't specific schools that barred women from entry, but my understanding is starting in the 1800s, women had access to higher education.
	Let's say I'm wrong about all those things.
	Could women, let's say.
	Could women have their own bank account?
	Could women have their own bank account?
	You tell me.
	They couldn't.
	Is that factually true?
	It's factually.
	I mean, look, I want to look at what you're looking at.
	Maybe my data was wrong.
	I doubt it, but I definitely would be curious.
	But do there any more chats?
	Yeah, there are some more chats.
	Hold on.
	I just had one thing on the bank thing.
	My understanding here, though, with this women couldn't have bank accounts, and I'd like to research it because, look, I honestly, it's not a specific category of like historical feminism that I'm aware of.
	What I've heard, though, is many banks, they required married women to have a husband co-signing.
	Or brother.
	Mostly, but that was due to them being a unit.
	It was due to them not being able to secure credit, I'm pretty sure.
	Yeah, but I, um, um, something about credit.
	Uh hold on, something about banks.
	Anyways, here, let me get through the chats just because we got to try to get this wrapped up soon, but we will get these chats read.
	Guys, $69 TTS if you want to get it.
	You know what?
	Maybe we've got to do a little more roast session.
	Hold on.
	We got Daniel here.
	Thank you, Daniel.
	Appreciate it.
	Daniel underscore mace donated $69.
	It's funny.
	You say you care about men's mental health, then say let's go extinct in pursuit of women's jobs and autonomy.
	Doesn't sound like you care.
	Love logic, though, right?
	I don't think women pursuing jobs means men's mental health has to be sacrificed in that process.
	I said an extreme thing that I think if people don't have autonomy, I don't see a point in living.
	So that's, I mean, if I'm not going to live, you know, in an oppressed way if I don't have to.
	So I don't know.
	That's how I feel.
	I think, didn't you say earlier that when it came to like free will and agency, you wouldn't sacrifice that to save the human species?
	Correct.
	Question for you.
	What if you had to force one woman?
	Oh, Jesus.
	Hold on, it's not going to be bad.
	She couldn't have a career.
	You had to force her.
	You're like, no, lady.
	One lady?
	One lady.
	You can't have a career.
	And if you put a restriction on her free will, but it saves the entire human species.
	Do you do it?
	I'd be open to it, but she opened to it.
	I'd be open to it.
	Well, hold on.
	You'd be open to it.
	I'd be open to it.
	I don't have to sleep on it.
	You got to sleep.
	I was just recalling it.
	She can't be a boss, babe.
	Hold on.
	She can't be an HR replay.
	Hold on.
	Why can't she just be a boss, Brian?
	A boss?
	Yeah.
	Women are 43% of the entrepreneurs of the country.
	They can just be bosses.
	They don't have to be a boss babe.
	They can just be bosses.
	Oh, okay.
	Is this like a criticism of the term boss babe?
	A little bit.
	A little bit.
	Women use this term.
	They do.
	They do.
	I'm not saying they don't.
	It's just sometimes let's just think about it.
	That's all.
	You're right.
	Okay.
	So, but you.
	Oh, I, you know, would you do it?
	I'd have to have a long conversation with her.
	Why would you gotta come?
	Because I'm restricting this woman's agency.
	I'd have to see you have 10 seconds to make the choice.
	It's like the trolley dilemma.
	So, okay.
	I hate the trolley dilemma.
	So, save all of humanity.
	Save all of humanity.
	But if you don't.
	I would choose humanity.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Ridiculous question.
	Ridiculous question.
	Thank you, Josh Brooks.
	Josh Brooks donated $69.
	Appreciate it, brother.
	Lol.
	Boots on the ground is not a support role.
	See, you just reverted back to saying they should just be in support roles.
	What is your stance?
	I'm confused.
	I don't know.
	I don't think I changed my stance.
	My stance is if I believe men should be the ones doing most of the combat, if women want to volunteer in support roles, they can.
	But if we're talking about a forced draft of women, which I don't advocate for, if we do a forced draft of women, I don't advocate for them being combat roles.
	I advocate for them being in support roles.
	That's my position.
	Straight to the front line.
	They don't even get training.
	You just, here's a gun.
	Just send them.
	Lucas donated $69.
	Thank you, Lucas.
	One slash let me steal manure position.
	Men have duties slash obligations.
	BC, they should just do the right thing.
	But women shouldn't have any duties to society whatsoever.
	In other words, a definition of feminism.
	I mean, I think when people are talking about women's duties, what are they actually talking about?
	Besides going to war, which I think most of us agree that that's not what we're trying to do, the only other option that I hear as like a duty for women is forcing them to have, or they should have a duty to have children.
	I don't believe in that.
	So unless you can come up with another duty that you think women should do, I'm open to it.
	But that's the only one I hear.
	All right, guys.
	Reminder, $69 TTS.
	If you want to get a roast in, guys, want to get a roast in.
	Lucas.
	Lucas donated $69 is a female supremacy.
	Double salute movement.
	Double salute to me.
	Wow.
	A woman has got you, joyful, trained real good.
	Oh, it changed it.
	It said beyond.
	Yeah, what word got changed?
	Wow, your woman has got trained.
	Female supremacy movement.
	Is he saying feminism is a female supremacy movement?
	Who's the breadwinner in your...
	We've actually switched back and forth, but right now it's her.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	But there were lots of times where I was.
	Oh, sorry.
	I didn't mean to cut you off there as you were.
	I didn't understand his question, honestly.
	No, I don't think feminism is a female supremacy.
	Yeah, he said, in other words, your definition of feminism is a female supremacy movement.
	I don't see it as supremacy in any way.
	It's equal opportunity.
	That's not supremacy.
	We have some super chats we're going to read.
	If you want $69 TTS, the state of things, yet another example of a feminist coming in and saying their observations of truth and women nature is bad and should be ignored because it hurts women.
	Oh, and ignore that it's bad for men and it sucks to suck, but suck it up, simp.
	I'm not sure what I'm saying is bad, feminists.
	Truth and women in nature is bad.
	I don't know because it hurts.
	I don't know.
	I don't really know what to make of that.
	Oh, what the fuck?
	Sorry.
	I don't know what.
	Sorry.
	I don't know what the fuck that was.
	It was Andrew Taylor.
	Did I pull this one?
	I just pulled this one up, right?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	All right, guys, $69 TTS.
	We have a few more coming through here.
	You know what?
	Here's what we're going to do.
	We're going to do a $30 roast.
	We're going to lower it to $30.
	Then we're going to wrap the show.
	We're going to do $29.99 roast.
	If you guys want to get it in, we'll do an actual roast session.
	You can roast me, guys.
	You can roast me.
	You can roast the ghost of Andrew.
	Yep, he's still there.
	The ghost of Andrew passed or something.
	Let me get that changed up.
	Do you have any final thoughts?
	Or actually, wait, no, we already did closing statement.
	Now we're just going to.
	I'll repeat it to anybody who wants to hear it, though.
	So are you down, though, to come back and do a round two?
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	A thousand percent.
	Jim Bob said he wanted to bait me too.
	Really?
	Yeah, because I was DMing him.
	Okay.
	We had an interesting conversation.
	So I'd love to talk to Jim Bob too because I think he's got some interesting points.
	You're nearby.
	You're in SoCal, so we can definitely do it.
	We got Michael G. Men are more capable of war, so we have a draft, but if birth rates get too low, women are only capable of having kids.
	Should we force them to do so, both result in a fallen nation?
	Michael G. Thank you so much, man, for that super chat.
	It's a fair dilemma.
	I don't believe we should force anyone, but I definitely don't think we should force women to have children.
	All right, there it is.
	Guys, we're doing a $30 TTS to wrap up the show.
	So get it in.
	If you want to roast Raphael, it's Rafael.
	Bring it.
	Yes, it is.
	Just want to make sure I fuck that up.
	If you want to get a little roast in, we're doing that.
	Hold on, let me get that all set up here super quick.
	Raphael, what do you think about just abolishing feminist studies program programs in universities?
	Do you think that would be good?
	Are you on board?
	Not necessarily.
	I mean, I personally believe if people want to study whatever they want in college, they can.
	I don't, yeah.
	I mean, I don't think it's going to lead to a high-earning career.
	But if people want to learn about the subject, I think that's okay.
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah.
	There you go.
	But, you know, maybe we should just abolish it.
	What do you think?
	No.
	Just get rid of.
	Oh my god, I screwed this up already.
	Hold on.
	I can't type, guys.
	$29.99.
	There it is.
	Ah, shit.
	Dang it, guys.
	Get a roasting so I can take a break real quick.
	All right, we have Josh Brooks here with another message.
	Thank you, Josh Brooks.
	Appreciate it.
	Josh Brooks donated $69.
	Thank you.
	Okay, but that's my point on your stance.
	You say you would be fine if they wanted to be on the front lines, but now you say they should be in support roles.
	Don't be wishy-washy.
	Pick one lane.
	Do you want to pick a lane?
	What I'm saying is that if women volunteer to be on the front lines, go for it.
	But if we're conscripting women, I don't think we should force them to be on the front lines.
	Conscripting women shouldn't force them.
	You know, look, I think they should make it a, like maybe HBO could host a pay-per-view for the war between women, you know?
	Women versus women.
	And it's televised for pay-per-view.
	Hmm.
	Yeah.
	It would, we would raise a lot of the GDP would go up.
	It would be just on that.
	I'm surprised the United States government hasn't done like peak capitalism.
	Like, okay, we're going to do war pay-per-view.
	I mean, that shit would be insane.
	We'll be out of debt in no time.
	That would be crazy, son.
	Okay, let's see.
	What do we have?
	What do we got?
	We got some super chats.
	Guys, it's been lowered.
	$30 TTS.
	Get a roast in if you want.
	Christopher, if the goal is equal opportunity and women have the opportunity to opt out of motherhood via abortion, why shouldn't men have the opportunity to opt out of fatherhood via surrendering paternal rights, not paying child support?
	Okay, so here's my position on this.
	I think if the woman and the man agree that he can, you know, forego his paternal rights and, you know, payment the child support payments, which by the way, I want everybody to know their only average child support payment is $440.
	So let's just pump the brakes here.
	But if the man wants to for and the woman agrees, totally cool with that.
	But it's not equal opportunity because men do not have the opportunity to be pregnant.
	So it's not equal opportunity and it can't be, unfortunately, in that situation.
	But you said, wait, hold on.
	You said if the woman agrees.
	So what if the man, because like, what if the man's like, eh, it was a one-night stand.
	I wasn't intending to be a father.
	We were just hooking up.
	She's like, I'm going to keep the kid.
	She would agree is her right to do, right?
	I agree.
	It's her right.
	And I think if a man, I mean, if you guys are also, you know, against promiscuity, I mean, men should know the risk of potentially impregnating somebody.
	And I believe that a man should take care of a kid if he has one.
	Now, if they agree that, hey, I don't need you to be in his life or her life, it's totally fine.
	Let's sign a contract.
	You don't need to make child support payments.
	Hey, that's between them.
	But I think if a man just opts out on his own, I don't agree with that.
	But you are pro-choice, right?
	am um and just curious uh do you have a cutoff for i mean kind of Okay, so it's tough.
	But something I've been mulling about, I haven't given it that much thought.
	But for example, if someone has a miscarriage, a death certificate is not issued, right?
	I'm not sure.
	I believe, I believe a death certificate for a miscarriage is not issued until about 20 weeks.
	If a miscarriage happens after 20 weeks, I think in the state of California, the death certificate is issued.
	Well, what's your cutoff for abortion?
	Probably 20 weeks.
	Okay, so you wouldn't have been favorable, like third trimester abortion.
	But the vast majority aren't done that late.
	Sure.
	I guess, though, when it comes to the men having the right to escape child support for a child that they didn't want, like, what would you, if there was a man sitting across from you, sitting right there, and he was like, Raphael, look, man, I'm 21 years old.
	I've been hooking up with this girl.
	I thought she was on birth control.
	She got pregnant.
	I'm not financially ready to have the kid.
	I just don't want to be a father.
	I'm not ready, whatever it is.
	What would you tell him?
	I would tell them, do you think the woman is also in that position?
	Because if she is, you should help out.
	What do you mean?
	If she's also not financially ready to take care of a child.
	Yeah, but what would you say to him in the sense of the reasons he's given you for why he doesn't want?
	I would say yeah, that sucks.
	But if she's gonna have the child and she's also not financially capable or ready in her life to do it, but she doesn't believe in abortion and she wants to have the child, then he should take care of it.
	And so now I want to switch it.
	Okay, you have a woman sitting there and she says the exact same thing.
	She says, look, you know, my birth control failed.
	I don't want to have a kid, I'm not financially ready, I don't want to be a mother, I'm not ready to raise a kid.
	What would you say to her?
	If it's before 20 weeks and my, to be consistent, I would say I don't think you should have the child because I don't think, I don't agree.
	My goal is children raise in great homes and if you are not ready to raise a child and that child could have a bad life, just I don't believe in just breeding for the sake of breeding.
	So if that child's not gonna have a good life due to the circumstances I don't think it's I think she should be able to get a termination of pregnancy and the guy who you were giving advice to would you maybe have.
	You might say to him, for example, you should have thought of that before you had sex.
	For sure I would say, that's a bet, that's a bet on her to like yeah, there are consequences for having sex.
	Would you say that to the woman?
	Probably yeah okay, but she can always escape, escape her situation through an abortion.
	Sure, because she's the one that has to go through the pregnancy right, but don't you think, for the sake of equality, men should be granted?
	In instances and cases in states where women do have abortion rights, men should have a corresponding right?
	Uh, it's often called by men's rights activists as legal paternal surrender.
	Sure, the more uh.
	The other term is paper abortion.
	They typically don't like that term, but but legal paternal surrender?
	Essentially, as a man, you could say hey uh, I didn't want to have the kid, I don't want to be financially responsible for 18 years, I don't want.
	I I relinquish any paternal rights yeah, parental rights that I have, but I don't want to be financially responsible for the kid.
	It seems to me, if you're saying to the woman, well, you have this exit of and you didn't like this, the way Andrew categorized this.
	Uh, he considers it murder.
	Sure right, you don't like that categorization.
	If the woman can murder the child, the unborn child, what would actually be wrong with then men wanting to just not have to be financially tied to the child?
	Yeah.
	Well, I want to clarify that I'm not necessarily saying equality.
	I'm saying equal opportunity.
	And men do not have the opportunity to be pregnant.
	So I think women have that.
	That's the sole thing they have the opportunity to do.
	So if they make the decision to keep the child, that is a risk men take if they impregnate somebody.
	And I think, again, from my worldview of masculinity, doing the right thing would be taking care of that child.
	So if, you know.
	What's abortion then?
	What do you mean?
	Well, just one point of clarification.
	When you say you're against third trimester abortion, do you say like for your own, like in terms of your own view?
	But like, let's say a woman, she wanted a third trimester abortion.
	Would you like by law?
	Do you think those should be precluded?
	I don't know.
	That's tough.
	It's tough.
	I don't, I wouldn't support it myself.
	Like, hey, if I, if somebody was pregnant and they were 20 weeks past, I wouldn't say you should get an abortion.
	But you would be open.
	Let's say there are, there's a cohort of women out there who, if they were pregnant and if they were in the third trimester and if they wanted to get an abortion, you wouldn't not have any guardrails or laws or anything like that preventing them from getting the abortion, say at nine months.
	I would need to understand, I think, the medical aspect of that a bit more, because I know most abortions that take place early are done through pills and there's very it's, it's quite simple of a process.
	If it's that late, I think it enters kind of a territory I'm uncomfortable with.
	So I, I'd have to, I'd have to understand that a bit more.
	Yeah no you're, you are right.
	Like when it's really early on in the the pregnancy, they can take a pill, which are the vast majority of abortions.
	Yeah and uh, but I I, my understanding is, once it gets a little further on in the pregnancy, the uh, I don't know the exact procedure I, I think they uh, there there can still be pills or something that they take, but they still.
	Then they have to remove the fetus and there's like maybe I heard again, i'm not an expert, this is not an expert field for me but uh, they vacuum it out or something.
	I've heard that too.
	I have no idea, I don't know, it could be fear longering, but again, I know that the vast majority aren't done that way.
	Sure um, but yeah, and it's hypothetical.
	You know it is tough.
	I, I definitely think if you're at 20 weeks and you haven't made a decision or you change your mind.
	I mean, that's a bad, that's a bad place to be.
	It shouldn't be that way.
	All right, we got, we're gonna let the chats come through.
	We got Noodle Zoodle, Noodle Zoodle, donated 30.
	Thank you man, appreciate it.
	An explanation, as how equal opportunity is not a fancy way of saying female privilege, giving benefits without the consequences or responsibilities, is the problem.
	But I also said that I don't believe men have inherent duties beyond my own view of what masculinity is.
	I don't believe men, I don't believe you're born into this world and you're automatically given a duty.
	Um, so I I It's consistent, in my view, with women.
	I don't consider that privilege at all.
	If a man doesn't want to do the right thing and be a piece of garbage, well, men do that every day.
	They're able to do that without any sense of duty.
	I feel the same way about women.
	If they don't want to, you know, I don't think they're inherently given a duty at birth that they must adhere to beyond obviously obeying the laws, which there's consequences for if you don't.
	All right, I'm going to just let these chats come through.
	There's quite a few.
	We got Nick Brown.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it, man.
	Brian, you need to take a recent break.
	There we go.
	I've seen better moderating on the leftist TikTok panel.
	He did good.
	Raphael, you're a tart who prescribes the same degen behavior as destiny, but with dumber arguments.
	I don't think I promote degeneracy.
	I mean, I personally don't have a problem with like high body counts, but that doesn't mean I'm saying you should.
	If you don't, if you have a preference for not a high body count, you're within your right to do that.
	I absolutely say this is not what I'm looking for.
	Everyone has preferences.
	You should pick people based on your preferences.
	Wait, I think during the show, Andrew might have asked you this, but, uh, I know you're married, but if you were single or when you were single, would you like, let's say you knew like the girl told you or some shit, she has a body count of, he said like a thousand or something.
	He's a.
	I think he said like five, five figure.
	10,000.
	Sure.
	Would you hit?
	As long as I got an STD test back and I cared about the person, yeah.
	10,000 bodies.
	If there's no STD at risk to me, then why not?
	What about what about let's okay, because you could maybe say, okay, the body count, yeah, she has, she's fucked 10,000 dudes, but it was like five years ago.
	Yeah.
	And she's been celibate for a minute.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	But how about this?
	You're on a date with a girl and she just fucked 10 dudes last night without a rubber.
	I probably wouldn't feel comfortable with that.
	Let's say, but if she's clean?
	She's clean.
	I don't know.
	If she's clean, then I don't know.
	Some futuristic STD test that, like, okay, knows right away if she's got some.
	If I'm single, she's clean and we like each other.
	What if, though.
	I'm still going to bust.
	I mean, whatever.
	I said it.
	Plus one of the buttons.
	What the?
	Here.
	What the fuck?
	There it is.
	Wait, so she just fucked.
	Yeah.
	What about like an hour before you guys?
	I mean, I'm not in like a Bonnie Blue situation.
	Like, I'm not going to be one of the guys lined up at the door.
	But I'm saying, yes, but I'm saying it the night before she did her thing.
	You know, I'm not in love with the idea, but I'm saying if I'm vibing with somebody, I'm single and like we're vibing and we're going to have a good time.
	I wouldn't turn it down.
	I just wouldn't be like, oh man, I can't do, I'm not going to do this.
	Do you, she, there's literally the dudes.
	Don't say it.
	Ejaculate.
	Oh, come on.
	Inside.
	Are you going to have sex with her, bro?
	Probably with a condom, but yeah.
	Wait, huh?
	Huh?
	Huh?
	You going to have sex with a woman who has another dude's sperm inside her?
	If I'm vibing with somebody, that is not going to be enough to stop me, no.
	Dude, I don't care.
	Let me tell you this, bro.
	I don't care how hot she is.
	I don't care how great the vibe is.
	She could be the most based, submissive housewife bowing.
	You have an issue with the bow, by the way.
	I don't know why you hate the bow so much.
	Let's talk about it.
	You know what?
	Raphael.
	You think your wife is watching?
	I think she is.
	She's probably waiting to pick me up at some point.
	You know, maybe do the bow.
	See if she just try it.
	See if you like it.
	Just have her hit a bow.
	And you know what?
	You might be a convert.
	I might convert you, dude.
	Sorry.
	I might convert you.
	I don't know.
	I think I just, when it comes to submission, it's just one of those things that just is like a relic of the past.
	And I think now we're living in a world where women are making, you know, young women are advancing faster than young men right now.
	Like, young women are buying homes more.
	They're making more money now.
	True.
	So it's like the idea of like, well, I only want a submissive wife.
	It's like, I think you're missing out on some great relationship potential.
	Maybe not.
	Maybe not.
	I just think I have met some awesome boss babes.
	And have you ever used bosses?
	How dare you, you misogynist?
	Have you ever had a woman do everything you say?
	Maybe at one point.
	Maybe when I was younger, yeah.
	In Florida.
	In Florida.
	Yeah, probably.
	But just to be clear, clarification: if you're really vibing with a girl, if she's leaking a jacket.
	Hold on, you said inside, not leaking.
	That's a different story.
	I mean, what are you doing?
	We're talking about 24 hours.
	Sometimes a girl's going to be.
	Look, she's got fucking another dude's splooge.
	If the condom is on, it's on.
	That's all I'm saying.
	If there was actively another man's semen in a woman's vagina, but you had, and it was the best condom ever.
	It even covered your balls.
	Sorry, that's king fucking D-Gen, dude.
	You would smash.
	If it was that kind of, if I was that kind of night, yeah.
	If it was that kind of night.
	That's fucking disgusting.
	What do you mean, that kind of night?
	You're liquored up?
	You got some tequila or what?
	If it's that kind of night, you can't probably.
	Let the part, let's get going.
	Look, you're a married man.
	And it's not an open, right?
	You guys are monogamous.
	Right.
	Okay, so this is a hypothetical, you know.
	I'm just saying, if you ever find yourself single again, you can't be fucking girls who have another man's seat in them.
	You can't do that, Raphael.
	You can't do that.
	That's weird.
	I don't know, man.
	If two people are going to have a good time, I can look past it.
	That's all.
	I can look past it.
	I want cobwebs in that pussy.
	Dude, I can't deal with a girl.
	If she's fucked a guy, why, though?
	Why, Brian?
	Why?
	Yeah.
	Bro, there's got, I can't.
	The thought, it's just gross.
	It's just inherently gross.
	You can't be having sex with a woman and she's got another dude's seat in her.
	I'm sorry, Raphael.
	I'm not saying it's my preference, but I'm saying I wouldn't say no if the vibe was right.
	Question for you.
	What if she's like, I don't want you to wear rubber?
	Absolutely.
	And she's on birth control.
	Absolutely not.
	And she has her tube style.
	Absolutely not.
	When I was single, when I was single, I always wore a condom, period.
	She can't get pregnant.
	It's not about pregnancy.
	And she, no STDs either.
	But the man's seed is in the sugar role.
	When I was single, I still wore a condom every time.
	No, but she can't get pregnant.
	Doesn't matter.
	She's got a fucking hysterectomy.
	She's got hysterectomy, no STDs.
	Her pussy's immune to STDs.
	It just doesn't matter.
	I pretty much only go raw with like long-term partners.
	That's pretty much how I do it.
	But no, but why work?
	No STDs, no STDs.
	She can't get pregnant.
	What's the point?
	It's just.
	I don't know about you.
	If here, let me.
	I mean, this woman's obviously hot enough that I'm considering this.
	So I think the calm is going to be just fine.
	She's very hot.
	So the calm is going to be fine.
	But she's already has another man's seat in there.
	But it'll be mission accomplished either way.
	So it'll be fine.
	I can't do that.
	But you know what?
	The crazy thing, you're like, I'd wear rubber.
	Me personally, if a girl was like, Brian, I'm not ready to have sex yet, but I'll give you a hand job.
	I'd be like, I'm okay.
	I don't even want, like, have you ever had, like, if that's all that's on the table, like, have you, you've turned down hand jobs, right?
	Have you turned down hand?
	Nothing's coming to mind.
	You've never turned down the hand job.
	Like, she's like, I guess I could give you a hand job.
	I'm like, let's just not do anything.
	Nothing's coming to mind.
	There might be a time, but I don't, nothing's jumping out at me.
	So, wait, just to be clear, though, if she has the seed of multiple men inside her, possibly an animal, let's include an animal.
	Oh, come on, man.
	Now we're talking animals.
	Like, we're talking bestiality.
	Animals are freaky, bro.
	They're not bestiality.
	Bro, you should see these fantasies, these women with the dogs.
	Dude, bro, who are you bringing on the show, Brian?
	We've had multiple women say they've made sweet, passionate love to animals.
	It was like a horse girl, right?
	Or uh, whoa, that's wasn't there.
	Trees, she was an trees.
	Sap.
	Sap.
	Would you have would you be with a woman who has sap inside of her from a ficus?
	As long as it can't hurt me and I'm wearing a condom or redwood.
	It might be a red wood.
	If I'm wearing a condom and no one's going to get hurt, yeah.
	If I'm attracted to them, he's still going to bust.
	So just to be clear, one more time.
	Busting is busted.
	If a woman just had sex and it was Andrew Tate and his is getting kind of like very suspicious.
	This is getting really sus.
	I don't know.
	And his seed was in her, and you were, but she's really hot and you guys are vibing.
	Are you going to have sex with a woman who has another man's seed in her?
	If it's Andrew Tate?
	Does that make you want to do it more?
	Do you want to do it a little bit?
	I got a one-up Andrew Tate.
	I'll show that girl how I really put it down.
	Yeah, shit.
	I'll convert her to the blue pill.
	But okay, removing the Andrew Tate thing, you would have sex with a woman 24 hours after.
	I can't do that, bro.
	I understand.
	I understand.
	I'm not there.
	I understand.
	She could, but like, that's your preference, which is great.
	She could be, like, I'm an average-looking guy.
	I'm not the best-looking guy, right?
	She could be leagues beyond.
	She could be so fucking hot.
	Like, it would be, it would, like, if I got her pregnant, right, it would be a blessing to my future children, right?
	Because she gets, you know, my children get the good looks, whatever.
	She could be so the hottest woman to ever ever lived.
	Fucking smoking, great personality, whatever.
	And if another guy fucked her recently, I don't want it.
	I can't do it, bro.
	I can't do it.
	I get it.
	But you wouldn't.
	I just feel like you're missing out.
	That's all.
	That's all.
	I can't do it.
	I understand.
	You can't bring yourself to do it.
	I understand.
	I can't do it.
	But it's like you saying, I can't eat In-N-Out.
	And I'm like, dude, you should try it.
	It's really great.
	It's the same thing.
	It's like you're missing out, but I can't do it.
	I understand.
	That's fine.
	But I love In-N-Out, so I would recommend you to have In-N-Out.
	That's all I'm saying.
	Look, I don't think it's fair to compare In-N-Out to pussy with another man's comment.
	Have you ever had In-N-Out?
	It's the same thing.
	It's like my favorite.
	It's my favorite thing.
	All right, let me try to get this wrapped.
	It's not your fault.
	It's my fault.
	I'm just talking about weird shit.
	It's fun.
	Nameless Name Seven donated $30.
	Thanks.
	What the previous guy said?
	Your worldview is too in the middle.
	Doesn't solve the problem of good versus evil, my guy.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it.
	I mean, yeah, but I think beyond, you know, I think what some people consider good and evil are different.
	I mean, Brian and I just had a whole conversation about it.
	I think people have different ideas of what's good and what's bad.
	So it's hard for me to say, hey, this is absolutely 100% good.
	I don't necessarily believe that.
	I have my worldview and I respect others mostly.
	What do you think about pegging?
	If you like it, go for it.
	Do you know?
	No.
	Okay.
	I'm not in the butt stuff.
	I'm just either way.
	Okay, just joking.
	Sons of Liberty donated $29.99.
	These liberals always come down to blaming white males specifically for their problems.
	He'll always be a victim.
	Would you be okay and allow your wife to flower some other man that she wanted to?
	I don't consider myself a victim at all.
	I don't know where you're getting that from, but I feel like my life's pretty damn good.
	Brood Fourthy has donated $30.
	Andrew couldn't even shake this guy's hand before he left.
	What a beta.
	Damn, he called Andrew a beta?
	That's fucked up.
	Wait, is he calling you a beta?
	I think he's calling...
	He's probably calling me a beta, but I'm just being...
	Well, it seems like it's directed at Andrew.
	Maybe.
	I don't know.
	Well, honestly, if we've wrapped the show.
	Does he normally shake hands?
	I don't know.
	But if we wrapped the show and you guys, you know, we were leaving at the same time, I think he'd shake your hand.
	But you're over here.
	He was over there.
	No, I didn't take advantage of it.
	Andrew's like, even the kind of heated nature of this conversation, like after the show, he'll be like, hey, man, it was good talking to you.
	Because I debated him on the show.
	It was the same thing.
	It was heated.
	It was back and forth.
	And he was like, man, it was fun.
	Honestly, it was one of the more heated debates he's had.
	I thought it was good.
	I thought it was good.
	I didn't know.
	I'm just used to it.
	Zero to donate $30.
	Raphael, your main problem is that you equate duties/slash obligations with being oppressed.
	Also, you would force men to die to save the nation, but you won't force women to have children to do the same.
	Save the nation.
	I don't equate duties with oppression.
	Oppression is systematic denial of rights and resources.
	Duties are automatic obligations that you just have for existing.
	And so I don't agree with that.
	All right.
	Thank you, Brood.
	Josh Brooks donated $30.
	Thank you, Josh.
	Bring back the gladiator arenas.
	Only blue hair and navel piercings against sleeve tattoos and septum piercings.
	Also, whoever has the most abortions under her belt gets to handle the tiger cage free.
	All right.
	Thank you for that.
	Josh, really appreciate it.
	We have Noel here.
	Thank you, man.
	Appreciate it.
	Noeli Ramos donated $30.
	About population collapse, there's no solution that keeps women's rights without marginalizing a population of men.
	Some suggest rethinking family structures.
	Why should men sign up for this future?
	I don't know how men will continue to be marginalized because women have more rights.
	I'm not sure how that works.
	Family structures, I do think we need to reconsider because I think a lot of what Red Pill ideology and other ideologies say is like it should be man is the provider, man is the protector, woman is the child, you know, bearer, you know, is at home.
	I think we live in a world where that's different now.
	I think we live in a world where women are out earning some men.
	So it's like maybe we rethink about it.
	I think, you know, I don't judge stay-at-home dads the way a lot of like red pillars would.
	I think, hey, if that works for the family, and I've talked to a lot of women who say, my husband is a stay-at-home dad and I love him more than anything.
	That works for them.
	So I just, I think we could rethink family structures.
	Graham's donated $30.
	Thoughts on Republicans part of 2025 trying to ban unicorn?
	About corn corn?
	Adult content.
	Yeah.
	I get the argument for it, but all in all, if everyone is a party, you know, to say this is what I choose to do, then I don't want to remove that agency personally.
	All right.
	We got Sibwo.
	Zero donated $30.
	What is this guy's opinion on the Alina laws being voted on in Mexico right now?
	It basically makes it legal for women to kill any man simply if they feel threatened or intimidated by him.
	I haven't looked into that, but that seems pretty wild.
	I mean, if a man is essaying somebody or assaulting somebody, I mean, you got to do what you got to do.
	But just feeling general threatened, I had to look into it, but that seems a bit overkill.
	All right, we have silent DJ here for a video.
	Silent donated $30.
	Check your ex for a video roast.
	This cuck got nuked by Andrew.
	I don't see any I don't see any DMs, man, but I'm not sure if we'll be able to pull it up, unfortunately.
	But we got Lucas here.
	Lucas donated $69.
	thank you bro i just threw up in my mouth just venturing a guess here but am i correct in assuming that there's a worn out chair strategically situated in the corner of your bedroom uh no you are absolutely incorrect I believe he's referring to a cuck chair.
	Yeah, I understand.
	As they call it.
	Yeah, I know.
	It's a very common thing that people say.
	I don't know what about me makes you think I'm not masculine.
	I mean, I don't get it.
	Just because I have some different beliefs, I'm not masculine.
	I don't know, man.
	Let's have a push-up contest.
	Will that prove something?
	You know what, Lucas?
	Lucas, you're a friend of the show.
	Fly out for the round two.
	You and Raphael will do a push-up contest.
	If that proves what is masculine to some of these guys, then let's do it.
	Wait, question.
	If Lucas wins, though.
	Yeah.
	What are we wagering here?
	I think we're wagering.
	I think we're wagering whether or not I'm a beta cuck.
	I will admit I'm a beta cuck if he beats me in a push-up contest.
	What if I was going to wager the whatever channel, but that sounds like a really bad thing.
	I can't run this thing.
	I can't run this thing.
	To wager.
	All right.
	Thank you, Lucas.
	Appreciate it, man.
	Jason Castle donated $30.
	Okay, it took so long to get back to non-the percent of men in war slash 20th century question.
	I decided to do the calculations myself and femboy is correct.
	Hey, Jason.
	I apologize for calling you a dummy on that question.
	Jason, it takes a lot of courage, and I think it's very masculine to admit you were wrong.
	It's funny that you said I'm a femboy, but you apologize for calling me a dummy.
	That's progress, man.
	That's really cool.
	Now, if he gets something else wrong, he has to apologize for the femboy.
	Yeah, and then he'll come up with another name.
	And yeah.
	All right, Jason Cassell, appreciate it, man.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it.
	He also wants to do a push-up competition with you by this.
	This is all the guys that want to do a push-up.
	You don't seem like a bad guy, and your arguments after Andrew left have been decent.
	However, at the start, refusing to define anything and getting angry was poor form and made you look clueless.
	I agree, but I think even when I was messaging you, I said I'm not a debater.
	Like, and Andrew is a debater to the core.
	Me and Brian are having a good conversation.
	He has different ideas.
	I have different ideas.
	We're getting more done now than when Andrew, since when Andrew left.
	So that's why it gets frustrating.
	He's a good debater.
	He can trap me in things, and I'm not as good at him.
	And I'll admit that.
	So, yeah, you know, we are getting a lot done.
	We were talking about a Jackolet.
	Ejaculate.
	That's one.
	That was good.
	That was a good.
	That was a real good thing.
	Jason Castle donated $30.
	Progress, guys.
	I was doing only men that fought in wars.
	My bad.
	That would make sense.
	I still think you are a degenerate and you lost the debate.
	Can I still fight you?
	I'm not even going to, you know, if I lost the debate, I lost the debate.
	I came here with a specific mission.
	That's fine.
	But if you want to spar, man, let's do it.
	Like, let's meet here.
	We'll spar.
	All right.
	Jason, you know, hey, Jason, you can't back down from a fight.
	A friendly spar.
	I think, though, I should start offering like a whatever boxing event.
	Dude, that's it.
	You know?
	Boxing event where.
	But just for like equality, would it be okay with you if like the men box the women?
	No, because I think doing the right thing is not hurting someone that equal rights, equal less.
	Equal opportunity.
	You keep strawmanning my feminism position.
	That is not my position on feminism.
	And my position on masculinity is doing the right thing, which includes protecting the innocent.
	Can I box her Gorlock?
	Did you know Gorlock?
	So that's a transgender woman.
	Can I box her?
	Oh, I thought it was the one that Rachel was arguing.
	No, she was mad at Marge.
	She was going on.
	Can I box Gorlock?
	Is that fair?
	It's a if Gorlock agrees.
	If Gorlock agrees, you're okay with it.
	You get the blessing.
	Okay.
	Just checking.
	All right, we got 30 here.
	Oh, this is a positive one for you.
	30 donated $30.
	Hello, Raph.
	I am not a feminist.
	I agree with 90% of the things you have said, especially about red pill ideology.
	I wanted to show you support in the face of all the hate.
	Oh, wow.
	Keep doing the good work.
	All right.
	That means a lot to me, 30.
	Thank you.
	All right, we got Josh Brooks here.
	Thank you, Josh.
	Appreciate it, brother.
	Josh Brooks donated $30.
	You don't want women to be on the front line if it's conscription because of force.
	You're okay if they choose.
	You concede women should be in support roles.
	Women being hurt equals bad, so no choice.
	I just think, I don't know if something's getting lost in translation, but I think if it comes to conscription, I don't want to force women on the front lines.
	But if they choose to be on the front lines, go for it.
	But if we are conscripting women, I would prefer they be in support roles.
	Unless they want to be on the front line.
	Intel Wild donated $29.99.
	This guy is a piece of shit.
	He might as well start sucking off dudes and color his hair blue already.
	Only thing good about him is that he's from the OC area.
	I mean, he's representing an OC, so you're not all bad, dude.
	Intel, are you in the OC?
	Are you in the OC represent?
	Oh, here we go.
	Uh-oh.
	Wait, Jason Cassell with a follow-up here.
	Jason Cassell donated $30.
	I said fight, not spar.
	Jason.
	There is a big difference.
	He wants to fight you.
	He doesn't want to.
	Look, I got too much to lose, man.
	I'll spar with you, but I'm not getting into a knockdown brawl because, you know, people get hurt, you know?
	I got too much to lose.
	We got Lucas here still in the chat.
	Lucas donated $30.
	Oh, brother, you want to engage in a bit of playground shit talk?
	Not to be self-aggrandizing, but I am six feet four inches, 235 pounds, and still bench over 300 pounds.
	Let's get Lucas accepted.
	Lucas, let's do it.
	Evo, he's not here.
	Lucas, just come by the studio.
	6'4, 200.
	Damn, bro.
	Give a chat.
	Dude, yeah, for sure.
	No, I'm not going to talk shit to you, Lucas.
	We're bros, homie.
	Wow.
	That was me.
	Me and Lucas are bros.
	No, we're broke.
	Well, you know the thing is, though, is that it was a push-up contest, right?
	Right.
	So it's like, you know, like the thing is, is that, well, at least with pull-ups, this is a bit different.
	Like a guy who's really light, he can do a lot of stuff.
	Like more pull-ups than a guy who's like big and shredded.
	Exactly.
	There's a little bit of a equilibrium there.
	But push-ups are a little different.
	They're different.
	I can't bench as much as that, but I'd be down to do a push-up contest.
	All right, Lucas, push-up contest.
	Get out here to California.
	I don't want to spar Lucas.
	Lucas, can you be on camera with your job?
	But he's a lawyer.
	Michael G, now that you're friends with Brian, look him in the eyes and call him a misogynist that's causing men to F11 themselves.
	So unlike look me deep in my eyes.
	You got blue eyes too.
	I didn't know that.
	I didn't know that till just now.
	I mean, fuck.
	I just, I walked into that.
	So I don't know that I can call you directly a misogynist.
	No, I can't do that.
	But I do think.
	What about all this?
	What about all this, Rafael?
	It's not only you.
	What is this?
	A lot of your panel does it.
	A lot of the people on your side do it.
	It's not just you.
	I think you're actually a pretty cool dude.
	So, but the thing is, I think the show sometimes does promote that stuff.
	And I think the guys who are angry find it to be, oh my god, women do suck.
	Yeah, I agree with the show.
	Women do are the worst.
	I hate them.
	They have no logic.
	They're stupid.
	And I just think the guys who are already deep red pill, that's what they're going to continue to believe.
	So that's the only thing I'm trying to do.
	Dude, do your show.
	Do your thing.
	I'm just saying, I hope that there are men out there that aren't like going deeper into it because studies show they do.
	That's all.
	I'm trying to, I don't want guys to unaly themselves.
	It's just the thing.
	And I'm not saying you're the cause of it, but I'm saying because they're probably watching other content too.
	It's not just this.
	But all of that reinforces it, in my opinion.
	You know, I think people who watch my show actually love women more.
	They love women more because they, you know, you got to go into something with your expectations managed.
	And the blue pill thing is, you're going to have a sense of what your experience is going to be with dating.
	But if you go into dating, knowing full well what that's going to entail, then you're not going to be surprised when certain things happen, which will enable you to have an understanding of women and have a expectations managed.
	And if your expectations are managed and you don't believe in this Disney fairy tale bullshit when it comes to dating, and I think women have a lot of this isn't just men's view of women.
	I think women need to lose the Disney bullshit too when it comes to men also.
	Yeah, I think they have, I think some have lofty expectations of what women have of dating.
	Sure, yeah.
	But I think both men and women have been sold this like Disney-fied sort of ideal, which is just not realistic whatsoever.
	And so for this reason, I actually think if you're going into dating or your encounters with your girlfriend or whatever it is with managed expectations, you're not going to end up disappointed because you know exactly what you're getting into.
	And I think that that makes for a much healthier relationship than having these unrealistic expectations, whether you're a man or a woman, when it comes to dating and relationships.
	I think there's a fair point in what you're saying.
	I think, you know, let's dispel the fairy tale that there are people out there that have shitty ideals, shitty preferences.
	They're shitty people out there.
	And not every woman's great, not every man is great.
	I think that's okay to say that.
	But I feel like it's constantly the expectation.
	Okay, so I'll tell you, you know, my TikTok blew up pretty quickly.
	It's doing pretty good.
	The comments I get from men constantly, when I ask women, would you date a man under six feet tall?
	All the women said yes.
	Every single one I asked.
	I know what they said, but the common thing I get from every red pill guy who's also single says, watch what they do, not what they say.
	But I'm interviewing married people, and these people are married to people under six foot.
	So I'm watching what they do.
	And but men can't believe it because of what they're hearing in the red pill space.
	They're hearing that women only want these preferences and that they're never going to get anybody.
	And they're hearing that message over and over again.
	Well, I mean, to your point a little bit.
	So we asked the height question on our show.
	Sure.
	And even women on our show, it's not like these super brutal black pills where they're like, oh, I only want to date a 6'5 giga chat.
	No, the women say, I've heard it.
	I'm 5'7.
	I'll date a guy who's 5'5.
	Yeah, I've heard that.
	I'm 5'.
	I'll date a guy who's 5'4.
	You know, they're like, as long as he's taller than me.
	Yeah.
	And I don't think that the women are lying necessarily, but I think you are to some degree misrepresenting the red pill position on this, which is they're not saying that it's perhaps a black pill position.
	Okay, if you're not six foot, you're just never going to get a girl.
	The red pill position is acknowledging the reality that women have a general preference towards tall men.
	Do you disagree that generally speaking, women have a preference for taller men?
	Not to say that they wouldn't date a guy who's five foot nine, but generally, if they had like a choice between the guy who's 6'3 versus the guy who's 5'9, they probably pick the girls.
	But it's the same way guys would rather have Sidney Sweeney than some girl they just met on Tinder.
	Like men have the same kinds of preferences in terms of the extremes.
	So I totally agree with you that, but I think what happens is men get frustrated that women have those preferences and it makes them feel like they're excluded.
	And I don't think that's necessarily the case because men follow Instagram models and they think, oh my gosh, she's so hot.
	This is who I'd rather date.
	But then they might meet somebody in the street and just because they don't look like that or feel that they don't feel like the attraction.
	And so I'm saying you're saying the men don't feel attraction towards the women?
	Correct.
	Oh, well, I think that's men shouldn't follow prescriptively.
	I would say men shouldn't follow like IG models.
	Yeah, but you're right.
	And I think that's a dangerous precedent for men.
	Oh, like watch porn or anything.
	Yeah, yeah, of course.
	And I can get behind that.
	I think porn is setting men up for unrealistic expectations for the world.
	And so they get upset because they feel rejected, but they see women had these preferences for what they consider giga chads.
	And it's like, yeah, if a woman had all the say in the world, she'd probably want to be with that.
	But the guy she ends up with is probably not going to be that.
	And you're missing out, I think, on great opportunities to meet women and have a good relationship.
	Well, I do want to address your, I guess, comment or perhaps criticism of you said that you do these street interviews and the answers that the women give you, you're saying that they're counter to some of the narratives.
	For example, when it comes to height, right?
	And the rebuttal that you probably receive is look at women, look at what women do, not what they say.
	You probably get that whole content.
	That's the comment I get.
	But you think that there's a component of truth there.
	Like I agree with you that women aren't just like wholesale lying about every single thing they say.
	However, I also think that, and this perhaps also applies to men too, is that people want to give the answer that sounds good.
	And I think that this, men do this too, but I think women do it a little bit more.
	And so they want to give the politically correct answer, the answer that sounds good.
	Women don't want to give an answer that might paint them as potentially superficial or paint them in like a bad light.
	So they're going to say, oh, I don't care about height.
	But for example, what we've done on the show is, you know, you ask a woman, well, you don't care about height, but we just ask them, I've seen it.
	How tall of all your long-term relationships, how tall have they been in a girl?
	For example, not all the time, though, to be fair.
	Like sometimes the girl, like, yeah, I dated a guy who's, my current boyfriend's 5'7 ⁇ .
	I dated a guy who's 5'9.
	But we've also had women who are like, well, I'm 5'4 and I would date a guy who's 5'6.
	And then they're like, well, my last three boyfriends were all 6'3.
	So it's like, well, that's a really small percentage of men in that in terms of the, what's the term?
	Percentile.
	Yeah.
	The height percentile.
	Like 6'3, you're in like the 99th percentile.
	But again, I think women will often say the politically correct, feel-good answer to these things.
	And I don't always think that they're honest about it.
	And they did do a study on this.
	I can't recall what, but they asked women to compare, I think it was six traits.
	Yeah.
	And I don't know if you've seen this.
	There's this infographic floating around.
	It was like, what are the like the six most important things?
	I think I've seen this.
	And one of them was like good looks, intelligence, money.
	I can't remember the other ones.
	And they, I'm trying to remember when they looks was like at the bottom of their stated preferences.
	But then I don't recall exactly what the study did, but I think they showed them like images of men or something.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Oh, I know the study.
	Yeah.
	And then, but they're, so there's, there's a massive difference between their stated preference and their actual preference.
	Attention.
	Their actual preference was more towards physical attraction as compared to what their stated preferences were.
	And the other thing, finally, I know you want to respond.
	Last thing on this is just, if you ask women if they think Lizzo is beautiful, they'll say yes.
	Right.
	But do they really think that?
	I know what you're saying.
	I mean, I don't know if you're a chubby chaser.
	I don't want to put words in your mouth.
	I'm just saying when it comes to physical attractiveness, I think it's a tough sale to say that somebody who's like, I'm not saying this to be insulting towards Lizzo, she's just factually morbidly obese, or maybe she's been losing weight a little bit.
	I think she has a little bit.
	I think most people when it comes to appraisals of physical attractiveness are not going to say like somebody who's morbidly obese is physically attractive.
	Generally speaking, most people wouldn't find that attractive.
	I hear what you're saying.
	I mean, and I gotta lose a bit of weight, guys.
	I'm getting a little obese.
	I gotta cut out that in and out.
	Exactly.
	No, I think you're onto a lot of things.
	And I don't disagree that maybe some of these women are answering this way, but that's why on my long form podcast, I interview married women because I want to interview women who are actually, you know, putting their money where their mouth is.
	A lot of the women I interview have either said, I have dated men under six foot, or one of my more popular videos is, would you date a man who earns less money than you?
	And all but one woman said yes.
	And that woman was, you know, being honest.
	That woman was being honest, which I appreciate.
	When I did the six foot video, the last woman I interviewed, she was like, well, clearly.
	And she points to her husband who's like her height.
	And it's just like, this is great.
	So I do see that women are putting their money where their mouth is.
	Now, in that study, if I remember correctly, they listed their preferences, but then they were shown photos.
	And I think photos is always going to be a bit superficial.
	Like, I think photo is kind of like Tinder and all that stuff.
	It's very superficial.
	I think what makes somebody attractive isn't necessarily just looks.
	I think looks are the first thing you notice.
	But I asked another question to women, what's more attractive?
	Looks or confidence.
	And every woman says confidence.
	Now, do looks get you in the door?
	Sure.
	But I think a confident man who's average looking has a shot if he has got a, if he approaches a woman with confidence, has some personality, has a sense of humor, he's got a shot.
	I'm not saying more than the Giga Chad or whatever they call him, but he's got a shot.
	And a lot of women end up marrying those kinds of guys.
	And I think the stats alone speak to it.
	I think only 14% of the population is over six foot tall or six foot and over.
	But about 50% of households are married.
	So obviously, women are marrying guys who are under six feet tall.
	Yeah, I would say most people, probably a good amount of people in terms of getting married, it's actually, if we're talking about socioeconomics, they're marrying people in their socioeconomic class.
	That's pretty typical.
	On the confidence thing, though, I mean, I don't think there's any dispute even in the red pill space.
	And there's some dispute of whether I even am red pill, but nobody denies that confidence is a bolster when it comes to attracting women.
	I think the conversation, though, is that, and this is, I don't even think it's a red pill position, really.
	It might not be.
	Like, they're like, yeah, confidence is really important.
	I think it's more black pill, the black pill guys who are like, no, it doesn't matter.
	Like, it's all looks.
	Yeah.
	Heights, looks, face, all that stuff.
	I mean, but they're not totally wrong.
	Like if you're really unattractive and you're the most confident guy ever, not saying you're not going to get a girl, but like this idea that confidence is like the cure-all for getting, like it's some magic wand for getting any woman.
	I don't think that's the case.
	I agree.
	I agree.
	And the other component, though, is that I think men who are confident are going to fare better in person.
	So like an average looking guy, but he's like got good personality and he's confident in person.
	I think he's going to do well.
	I think he's going to do well.
	The issue is, though, is that the majority of people, at least from what I've seen, are meeting online.
	So that confidence, that personality doesn't really translate.
	And so if people are meeting on Instagram, dating apps, et cetera, and my understanding from some statistics I've seen, maybe it's wrong.
	The majority of people are meeting online in some capacity.
	They're meeting on dating apps.
	So somebody's confidence or personality doesn't really have an opportunity to express itself online.
	These women are swiping on the dating apps.
	They're just looking for a hot dude.
	They're going to see the hot guy first.
	And look, if he's like a little bitch, then yeah, he's going to be in trouble.
	But if he has like a modicum of ability to have a conversation with a woman and he's good looking and she's already physically attracted to him, he's going to do okay.
	Where even if his confidence maybe isn't like exceptional.
	I agree.
	I agree.
	And I think that's kind of why I want to encourage men.
	I think that's why I do on-the-street interviews is because I'm approaching women randomly.
	They have no idea why I'm approaching them.
	I think most of the time they're like pretty, they feel pretty comfortable with me.
	But I'm trying to encourage men to do that more because personality on the dating apps is a losing game.
	You're outnumber, men outnumber women three to one.
	So they're already in a losing game.
	Like they're all good.
	Yeah, the dating app, I want men to get off the dating apps.
	And I think they're kind of on the decline.
	I know, I think statistically recently more people are.
	I agree with them.
	So I want to encourage more people to go meet people in real life because that's when your personality can shine and that's when your confidence can shine.
	That's when your sense of humor can shine.
	And if you feel like I don't have enough money or I don't have enough this, it's like, honestly, there are guys at McDonald's that are married.
	There are guys at Walmart that are married.
	There are guys at gas stations that are married.
	And I'm not saying that's the norm, but it's possible.
	And I think people can find love and partnership.
	And that's all I'm trying to push for.
	That's really it.
	Because I'm not saying like I'm like a huge natalist, but I think there's a common ground in what a lot of the red pill and a lot of these other people think is that at the end of the day, we do want to have a thriving population.
	And how do you do that?
	You get people together.
	And right now, there's too much of a divide.
	So I'm trying to limit that divide as much as I can.
	That's my mission.
	That's what I'm trying to do.
	And I'm brand new to this.
	But any guy I can reach with that, it's like, I know what it's like to not have confidence.
	I know what it's like to feel like you're never going to date a girl.
	And it's sad.
	And I hate that feeling for men.
	And I know a lot of men feel that way.
	So I just want them to not feel like if you don't have six figures, six foot, six pack abs, that no woman's ever going to like you.
	Cause I just don't think that case because average men are, and I go to Disneyland.
	I go to all these places.
	I look around.
	I'm like, look at all these people in relationships.
	Look at all these guys and girls.
	They're just so normal looking.
	People you don't see online.
	I don't think there's a dispute here necessarily.
	There's a lot of average people who are dating other average people.
	But I think that there are a couple issues here.
	And again, I don't think anybody disputes this.
	Yes, if you go out into the public, you'll see like a looks matched couple.
	You'll see it all the time.
	There is, though, a cohort of both men and women who, with their own dating experiences, are encountering certain things as it relates to, it's not all women, but there are quite a few women who have, let's say, delusional expectations as it relates to their dating process.
	Agreed, agreed.
	And perhaps the same could be said, I think, for a smaller portion of men.
	Men seem to, at least my assessment, men seem to be more realistic as it relates to their dating prospects.
	And you also mentioned you have an issue with like the looks rating thing, but I'll explain, I think, why.
	And this is what I explained to the women.
	I know you don't like the rating thing, but I think it's important.
	And here's why, is because women have sexual access to men who are, who I would argue, are outside of their league.
	Whereas a man, if you step to a woman who's outside of your league, at the moment I'm just talking about looks.
	I know what you mean.
	But like men can bolster their prospects with status, money, confidence, personality.
	There's ways men can bolster and date out of their league by making up for it with those things I just mentioned.
	Yeah, agreed.
	But because women, but the thing is, though, generally speaking, I would say like the average guy, for example, most average men can't be sluts.
	I think that most average men don't have access to hookup culture.
	Yeah, I agree.
	They can't go and like sleep with a new woman every single day of the week.
	Every single woman, even below average, I'm not even talking about average women.
	I'm talking about below average women.
	If they were so inclined, they could be sluts.
	Yeah, if they wanted to.
	If they turn it on, they could.
	Any woman can be a slut.
	I agree.
	Very few men can be sluts.
	And so what you have happening is essentially you have women who have sexual access, limited sexual access because they're not getting commitment, but they have limited sexual access to men outside their league.
	So what happens there?
	You basically you have a lot of women who are chasing after men who, frankly, would never commit to them.
	And this is a cycle that women could get into in their 20s as they're dating.
	And these men, and look, here's prescriptively, I don't think men should sleep with women if they don't have a genuine bona fide intention of being in a relationship with that girl.
	I can give you a moment.
	I don't think men should be promiscuous.
	I don't think men should be promiscuous.
	I think that's a healthy message.
	But in a situation where we have completely, we have a global sexual marketplace, things are completely liberated.
	Women can hop on a dating app and fuck a really attractive guy, and it can be done without like the prying eyes of their social circle and their peer group.
	You have women who are going to hook up with these men.
	You have men who are also going to hook up with these women for a different reason, though.
	And so because of this, you have women who, the way I often describe it is this.
	Have you ever been in a dorm room?
	You ever lived in a dorm room?
	No, I never lived, but I have experienced it.
	You ever like had housemates or roommates?
	Yes, but like in a off-campus house, but yeah.
	Okay, and you shared a bathroom or something.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	You currently, I assume, you and your wife live alone.
	Yes, just us and our dogs.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's really hard to go from having like, let's say you live in a mansion to going to live in a shared, having roommates, not housemates, roommates, people who live in the same room as you and you share a bathroom with three people.
	Similar to that, if a woman has dealt with a certain caliber or tier of men, it's going to be kind of like you're like, okay, this is my league because I can sleep with these men.
	But for women, their league is the men that they can get into long-term committed relationships with.
	So these men will entertain short-term sexual relationships, limited short-term sexual relationships with these women.
	Men don't have that same ability to secure, like, to secure that.
	I agree.
	So for this reason, there's this differential that exists between men and women where essentially you do have a cohort of women who's like, well, they're perpetually chasing men who are out of their league because it's like the breadcrumb of like, I can get a guy who's more attractive.
	We all want the best, right?
	As men, we want to get the most attractive, good personality woman.
	Whatever the, you know, we want to shoot for that.
	Yeah.
	We all want to get the best that we can get, right?
	And same with women.
	Women want to get the best mate that they possibly can.
	But again, going back to what I was saying, men get insta rejected.
	So men have to be like, if I step to a girl who's a 10 out of 10 Victoria Secret model, bro, it ain't happening.
	It ain't happening.
	I don't care how confident.
	You got a successful podcast.
	It's not happening.
	If I step to a girl who's clearly out of my league, I'm not, she's not going to be like, well, for example, if I'm offering her on a silver platter sex, she's like, no.
	But like as a woman, if you offer a guy who's more attractive than you on a silver platter, you offer him sex, he might take that opportunity.
	So women have at least limited sexual access to men outside their league.
	And so essentially it creates a completely different dynamic.
	Yeah, no, and I think, I think you're absolutely right.
	There's nothing, everything you said was absolutely correct.
	But I think what happens here, yes, I think online, women and men have unrealistic expectations of what they can get.
	And women have more access to those unrealistic expectations.
	Yeah, they get breadcrumbs.
	They get a taste of it.
	Yeah, they get a taste.
	They get a taste.
	Yeah, they get, and it's hard to go back to the room.
	I get what you're saying.
	I totally understand.
	I think there are certain people that chase that kind of thing, though.
	I think there are other women who, you know, maybe they're raised in a different environment.
	They're not chronically online.
	They really do want someone to just sit on the couch and watch Netflix with, you know, and they want to go get in and out and like do that kind of stuff.
	So I, but I totally agree that maybe there's some misguidedness on like our expectations because of the internet.
	But I also think that part of the frustration that men feel is that imbalance in the sexual marketplace.
	And so men are frustrated because women do have access to that and they don't.
	And that frustrates them because they want access to those same women, but they can't get them.
	And so there's a frustration that comes from that that I think what happens is online that starts to build as they continue to, you know, consume content that basically tells them that's all you should be is this.
	Because if you're not that, you're never going to get anybody.
	And I think that message is pounded into men's heads so much so that when I'm talking to them, I'm like, it's not like that.
	I got to get you outside.
	I got to get you offline and talking to real people.
	And I know it's difficult.
	It's hard to approach a woman.
	But I was getting my haircut for this podcast.
	I was getting my haircut and I was telling them I was coming on here.
	And one of the girls was like, oh, I'm single, you know?
	And I was like, well, do guys ask you out?
	She's like, no.
	She's like, and honestly, the next guy that asked me out, I'd probably say yes because he had the balls to do it.
	And I'm like, wow.
	Shout out to Homie and OC, like hit up Kempt haircut.
	You might get a date.
	You have a female barber?
	No, no, no.
	I have a male barber.
	Oh, she was in there and I was talking to her.
	She worked there.
	So, yeah.
	That's my point.
	I'm going to let the rest of the chats come through, guys.
	Guys, $30 TTS, final call.
	Final call.
	Let me wrap up here in just a sec.
	Since you asked, your face, posture, physiognomy, voice, and even your vibe makes you unmasculine.
	You're a teeny tiny widdle beta cuck with fee wings.
	Your opinions just makes you retarded.
	Joyful, are you?
	Hey, Josh.
	Josh, do you hear this voice?
	You hear this luscious voice?
	You think that sounds not masculine, dude?
	What the fuck?
	Lucas donated $30.
	Brian, dot, that's true.
	If her too thick, push-ups can be difficult, but I still do one-arm push-ups and still rip out with legit pull-ups.
	Chat, I apologize for my cockiness/slash hubris.
	Lucas, no one's gonna roast you, dude.
	I deserve it.
	No one's roasting Lucas because he's too big.
	Lucas donated $30.
	One slash Brian.
	I wish I can show my face on camera.
	I'm actually pretty polite in person.
	Unfortunately, there are a lot of pronouns in the email signature block people in my firm's HR department.
	I would have to continue.
	Lucas donated $30.
	Thank you, man.
	Conted, I would have to pull A at home a thiei, hide my face, or blur it on camera.
	Otherwise, pretty good chance I'd be hitting the breadline afterwards.
	It's NYC after all.
	We have a V for Vendetta mask that you could wear.
	Or if honestly, Lucas, if you want, just come kick it.
	Spartan.
	Just kick it behind the scenes.
	You don't even have to come on camera.
	Thank you, Josh.
	Josh donated $30.
	All your opinions have meant nothing.
	Be a man and stop being a clown.
	You won't see it in others.
	Only way you'll understand is when it happens to you.
	You probably got no guy friends either.
	I do have guy friends.
	That hurts, though.
	That hurts, man.
	Got Durin dolls.
	Dude, I haven't seen that.
	Thank you so much.
	Being handsome gets your foot in the door, which leads to success, which builds confidence.
	Just tell guys to be more confident, bruh.
	I don't know why more men didn't think of that.
	I have something on this.
	I hear what you're saying.
	I think looks help you, helps you feel confident.
	But I think confidence can be built in other ways.
	For example, just having a belief in yourself that maybe, hey, I don't have all the answers, but I'm going to come to it anyway.
	That's confidence.
	Or you build confidence by successfully doing things over time beyond dating.
	Just, hey, I tried to learn this how to ride a motorcycle and now I ride a motorcycle.
	That builds confidence.
	Learning new skills, that builds confidence.
	I don't think it's just looks, looks help, but there's other ways to build confidence.
	All right.
	We got Ghost here.
	Thank you, Durin.
	Ghost Logistics donated $30.
	BTW, my kid I took custody of at 1.5 months old from a girl I broke up with for lying about birth control.
	Dated her for a week.
	Men abandoning is often avoiding the persecution in court.
	Ghost.
	Yeah, I have heard reports like, so for example, a guy will really want to fight for his children and then he'll go talk to a family, a family law attorney.
	And the family law attorney does not have like a good prediction for how it's going to go and that men face certain challenges when it comes to custody disputes and this sort of thing.
	And so a lot of men just, I mean, they're like, man, I'm going to spend all this money with a really low chance of getting a positive outcome.
	One of the other things that often frequently happens, and I don't know if this is the case for Ghost, I don't recall his points, is, and I'm not saying all women do this, but this is actually, and I think this is something that's been studied, but the incidence of false accusations,
	once a custody dispute has been initiated, and if the man challenges the dispute over custody, It's frequently seen, more so almost exclusively on the women's part, for various accusations to manifest themselves out of the ether once the man starts fighting for custody.
	For example, there will be accusations of verbal abuse.
	There'll be accusations of emotional abuse.
	There'll be accusations of physical abuse towards the woman.
	But then if the woman doesn't get her will, there will be further accusations that are even more sinister and malevolent.
	She'll start accusing the man of abusing the child, physically abusing the child.
	And I think the worst, sexually, well, of the child.
	And these manifest as attempts at leveraging these sorts of accusations to either destroy the morale of men who are attempting to fight for custody of their children or to paint a picture of the man as being essentially, well, abusive and precluding him from getting any degree of custody.
	And I'm not, look, there are genuine instances of abuse, but this is seen, and Lucas is an attorney.
	I don't know if he can weigh in on this.
	And I don't know if this is his area of practice with, well, I don't think it's his area of practice, family law, but this is seen frequently in custody dispute situations, which tend to end up when there's a mutual custody dispute, oftentimes are very, very, what's the term for like with a legal thing if it's contentious.
	Very contentious, very, get very nasty.
	And when people are fighting over their children, which I think is really unfortunate, oftentimes in furtherance of if it's expedient to throw out a false accusation in the hopes of either making the court believe that these abuses are real or demoralizing the father, the man to cease their pursuit of custody, it's actually effective, sadly.
	I bet.
	I bet.
	I bet, okay, assuming the instances are false, of course, I'm sure there are instances where it's true, but assuming this is being completely fabricated, yeah, that can totally be used against men because I'm sure there's a bias that that happened or they're going to believe the woman, you know, because of this, you know, and that's horrible.
	That shouldn't be done.
	I abhor anybody who tries to keep a good father from their kids.
	I think that's horrible.
	I think that's one of the worst things you could possibly do.
	Keeping bad fathers away from kids, I'm okay with.
	Keeping good fathers away, that's evil, in my opinion.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And I don't know if that's a ghost situation, but there was like, I think, two separate guys who sent in messages who are saying they had like these just catastrophic, like months or even year-long custody disputes.
	It's just, it's, you know, it's actually interesting is I actually sat in, I was like preparing for a small claims case I was dealing with, and I just went to the courthouse and I sat in and in one of the these court proceedings and I watched like three separate divorce slash child custody, child support.
	And it's really sad.
	It's like sad to see these two people.
	They once loved each other.
	There's children involved and the relationship's just completely destroyed.
	It's really sad.
	It's sad as hell.
	And yeah, it's horrible.
	It's horrible for everybody.
	You had criticisms as it relates to like my anti-marriage position.
	And like, honestly, This might seem like kind of doomer or black pill, but I do think it's worth it for men to just to just go, make an informed decision.
	Just go and watch family law proceedings for an hour or two.
	And just be, you gotta be, I'm not saying, well, maybe don't get married, but at least go into it knowing that in the event of a divorce, that's how it could be.
	So, one, just you gotta pick.
	You gotta make sure you pick the right woman.
	Absolutely.
	Because you don't want to be dealing with a woman that's gonna be like any sort of, it's tough though.
	Even some women switch up, so you can't even really know.
	But you gotta just make sure you got a vet, you gotta vet the woman properly.
	Even then, man, fuck, it's complicated.
	Whatever.
	I'm gonna let the rest of the chats come through.
	Oh, my God.
	Intel Wilde donated $29.
	Did this one come through already?
	Nah, it's huge.
	It's gargantuan.
	You're a fucking liar!
	You're a fucking liar!
	Intel Wilde donated $30.
	no such thing as happiness in real life if you believe in that you will surely be depressed into a wild look Look, reading a message like that is exactly what makes me concerned because happiness is in real life.
	Lucas donated $30.
	Brian, I'll come out next time Andrew is back.
	I'll bring Wifey too.
	I visit my firm Cele office periodically to collaborate so I can come and kick it.
	Based Thor donated $30.
	S a topic from last episode.
	Is it essay if he stops two seconds after she said no, but is a premature ejaculator and busted a nut on her after she said no?
	Is it still essay?
	It's a crazy hypothetical.
	What if he's in the middle of ejaculating?
	He's in the middle of ejaculating.
	I can't engage with him.
	All right, all right, all right.
	He doesn't like it.
	All right.
	Let me read.
	We got super chats here.
	We got Michael G.
	Now that you're oh, wait, I did that one.
	Jason Cassell.
	Okay, I think I want to fight Lucas.
	Oh shit, we got some viewer on viewer boxing action here.
	Sort of one, 260 bench, or no, he weighs 260.
	He benches 450 pounds, 415 pounds.
	Deadlifts, 675 pounds.
	47, just kidding.
	I don't want to fight Lucas is awesome.
	Oh shit.
	Jason, look at this handsome guy with his sunglasses there.
	I do think if you saw the boxing thing, though, it should be people of opposing views because that'll be more like, ooh, that'll be more engaging.
	Who do you want to box, Andrew?
	No, I don't want to box Andrew.
	Jim Bob?
	No.
	I don't know if there's anybody I want to box.
	I wouldn't box Andrew Tay because I get my ass kicked.
	Would you box Donald Trump?
	Yeah.
	I would throw a hand to Donald Trump.
	We got Michael.
	Oh, Raf, can you draw a super S right now?
	And if not, how can any of us ever trust you?
	What's a Super S?
	It's like the stussy S.
	It's like, here.
	Is it the three, the lines?
	Yeah, this thing.
	Oh, yeah, I remember this from school.
	Shit, I don't remember if I know how to do it, though.
	Yeah, that thing.
	Fuck, I can't remember how to connect it.
	It's hard.
	It's hard.
	All right, that's it for the super chats.
	Guys, final call.
	If you want to get in the final roast, we're going to get this wrapped up here.
	We got Lucas.
	One sec, Lucas, getting this pulled up.
	Oh, really quick.
	Mary, can you pull up Twitch really quick?
	Guys, final call for Twitch.
	If you enjoyed the stream, guys, and you're watching on YouTube or you're watching on Twitch, can you guys check if you have a Prime sub available?
	Guys, it's been 36 minutes since we last got a Prime sub.
	I think it's bugged, boys.
	It's been a minute since I've been doing the bugged thing, but I think it's bugged.
	Can somebody just check if there's a Twitch Prime in the chat?
	Guys, drop us a follow and a Prime sub.
	If you have one, if you have Amazon Prime, you can link it to your Twitch.
	Quick, free, easy way to support the show every single month.
	Thank you guys for the support over there.
	Also, guys, discord.gg slash whatever.
	Also, like the video, please.
	Appreciate it, guys.
	Appreciate it, guys.
	Final call on the TTS.
	Oh, I need to do Venmos really quick.
	We had Douglas Marks.
	Thank you for the $5 on Venmo.
	Eric, thank you for the 10 on Venmo.
	And 50 Bag of Hate.
	Thank you for the 10.
	Thank you for the $10 via Cash App.
	Really appreciate it, guys.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	final call on these uh we have uh here i'll wait for lucas to finish this Michael G, Raph, you're a kind-hearted, good man who makes you a target in secular capitalism.
	You need to join the church and you can thrive.
	Next debate, you'll be Andrew teaching you how to accept Jesus.
	Thanks for the compliment, Michael.
	I do try to be kind and good-hearted.
	I am thriving, though.
	I gotta say, I do love my life.
	All right, and then we have these final messages here from Lucas.
	Lucas donated $30.
	Thank you, man.
	Preacher.
	Women fight hard for custody BC.
	There is child support dollar at play.
	The child support money is typically not specifically earmarked for the kids, so it can.
	You know, really quick, I'm going to let the rest of yours come through.
	This is actually a men's rights position in the same way with like food stamps and snap benefits, like food benefits.
	You can only, like they give you a card.
	You can only spend it on food.
	Yeah.
	You can't like go buy like, I don't know, like alcohol.
	You can't go and buy like electronic device.
	Like it will only work with food.
	And I think there could be something else implemented with child support where it has to be spent on something.
	It could get a little complicated, though, if like part of it is like helping out with rent.
	But like child support should go towards the child.
	It should go towards child expense, like child support related expenses.
	You shouldn't be able to get your nails done if there's like excess money for child support.
	So I think everyone can agree with that.
	Are there people that don't?
	Are there people that think otherwise?
	Because I feel like that's pretty reasonable.
	Yeah.
	Well, but there's not currently like a system for that.
	There's not a system in place for that.
	It's just like, here's $2,000 or here's however much money it is.
	You can really spend it on anything you want.
	Lucas donated $30.
	Contered, so the mother can use the child support dollar for whatever since it's never audited.
	Also, family law is court of equity, so false allegations are typically handled as per the judge's discretion.
	Lucas donated $30.
	Equity, what's that?
	Free slash not pursuant to a law standard of proof.
	Also, Officer Tatum has often discussed the weaponization of false TV allegations.
	EOJ, bet £400.
	You got me, bro.
	What is court of equity?
	What does that mean?
	Never heard that.
	Shniko Zero 4 donated $30.
	Brian lost my ex-wife to substance abuse and bipolar disorder.
	Came out of the blue Even if you think you picked the one It can change overnight It cost her the marriage and her life I'm sorry, buddy.
	That's hard, man.
	Wait, you lost her as in she sounds like it.
	It sounds like it cost her life.
	You lost her, like, you got divorced.
	I think he said it cost her life.
	I don't know.
	Oh, and she, okay.
	Oh, my God.
	I'm so toaster brain.
	And her life.
	Okay.
	That's hard, man.
	I didn't see that part.
	Sorry to hear that, man.
	Damn.
	It takes a lot of bravery to engage in relationships because they really can go bad.
	I mean, that's the reality.
	They can go real bad.
	And I'm really sorry to hear it went that way.
	That's yeah, I mean, that's the tough thing too, is like you think you know somebody, but people change, circumstances change.
	I don't think most people go into relationships or specifically marriage, like anticipating that there's going to be a divorce.
	Like they're probably not like thinking like this is going to happen, but they probably think this is the love of my life.
	Right.
	And it's devastating if it goes the other way.
	It's devastating because you really do believe in this thing.
	So yeah, look, I don't want to belittle men trying to date because it is scary as shit.
	And I think that's why women appreciate the courage often because it is a brave thing to do to go talk to women.
	And I, I mean, from my own experience, I've actually dated some pretty wonderful women.
	But there was one girl in particular I dated who she had a borderline personality disorder, BPD.
	And I mean, honestly, there's some, I was young.
	Looking back, there's some signs pretty early on.
	There's some signs early on that I probably could have tuned into, but I was young and naive and didn't have much relationship experience.
	But like definitely people, you know, like that relationship from how it started to like, it changed the whole thing.
	It was completely different.
	It was very different.
	But even like people who don't have any sort of like personality disorders or whatever, shit can change.
	Absolutely.
	And I think one of the things though, at least as it relates to marriage, which is one of the things men should potentially look out for, is I think once you're married, I think the woman has more, has leverage.
	Because if you're the breadwinner, if you're the breadwinner as the guy and you're getting into alimony territory, then it's like she's kind of got you by the balls.
	She's got you by the balls.
	It can be, but I could be wrong, but I think, again, I might have been wrong about some of my stats, but I believe only 10% of marriages end up with alimony payments.
	I think.
	I think it's something along the line.
	Yeah, I don't know what the statistics are on it.
	Obviously, if you've been married for a short time, my understanding is if it's below a certain threshold, you'll pay alimony for a duration that's proportionate to the length of the marriage.
	It's not like, I don't think it's, you've been married for three years, you pay alimony for three years.
	I think it's maybe, I don't know, it's different in different jurisdictions.
	Maybe it's half.
	I think in California, it's either after eight or 10 years, then there's the, it's potentially life, lifetime alimony.
	That's kind of ridiculous.
	Well, I personally believe, you know, if you're really worried about, if you really have a lot of assets and finances and you're worried about alimony, I mean, if, you know, I think a woman can understand a prenup.
	I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
	Yeah, but there's concerns with prenups too.
	Yeah, prenups can be challenged.
	Oh.
	Yeah, prenups can be challenged.
	Sometimes they can be deemed unenforceable.
	Interesting.
	And then it can oftentimes it can, I think, Lucas, correct me if I'm wrong.
	It only applies to that which occurs or it can only exclude that, like assets or money that existed prior to the marriage, but anything earned during the marriage, I don't think.
	I think legally you could still exclude things during the marriage.
	I think.
	I could be wrong, but I think, yeah.
	But we do have to wrap the show.
	Raphael, thank you for joining me, man.
	Really appreciate you having the show.
	Guys, kindly like the video on the way out, guys.
	We will be live again tomorrow.
	So we're going to be live Friday.
	We're going to be live Saturday.
	Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.
	This is going to be the longest stretch of whatever content ever, as far as I'm concerned.
	Really good debates.
	We've got a great debate lined up for tomorrow.
	Got a great debate Saturday.
	Great debate Monday.
	Great dating talk.
	So be sure to tune in, guys.
	Great show.
	Rafael, thank you again for joining me.
	Really appreciate it, guys.
	Like the video on the way out, guys.
	I hope you guys have a good rest of your night.
	Tune in tomorrow.
	It's going to be, I think we're aiming to go live about 3.30 p.m. tomorrow.
	So be sure to tune in for the great debate tomorrow.
	Andrew Wilson will be back.
	All right, guys.
	Good night.
	07's in the chat.
	We'll see you guys next time.

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