Whatever Podcast - For The PERFECT Man, She WILL NOT Take His Last Name/Quit Her Job?! Jay Dyer! JB!

May 12, 2025 - Whatever Podcast

07:50:21

For The PERFECT Man, She WILL NOT Take His Last Name/Quit Her Job?! Jay Dyer! JB! | Dating Talk #242

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	Welcome to the whatever dating talk podcast where we try to make sense of the man, you guys totally butchered that, but okay, where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape.
	I'm your host, Brian Atlas.
	We're coming to you live from Santa Barbara, California.
	A few quick announcements.
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	By the way, we're selling the 90s cup.
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	Follow us on Instagram at whatever.
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	BrianAtlasX.
	I changed it.
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	10,000 labia plasties a year in the United States.
	Absolute tragedy.
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	Disclaimer: The views expressed by the guests do not necessarily reflect the views of the whatever channel.
	With that said, without further ado, we're going to have the guests introduce themselves.
	So, please tell us your name, age, occupation, where you're from, and education.
	Go ahead.
	I'm Hyason.
	I'm 28 and I'm from Ohio, and I'm a painter.
	I'm an artist.
	Painter, okay.
	And any education, college, anything like that?
	Uh, no, I did graduate early, but from high school, yeah, I did the time off.
	And you said you paint, yeah, you're a painter, uh-huh.
	Okay, uh, pastel, what's your no, I do oil-based oil-based paint, oil-based, yeah, dope.
	Uh, have you ever done any sort of do you do like content creation or anything like that?
	Sometimes, um, I'm not really on social media that hard when it comes to that.
	I do like murals, and I get like casted, yeah, for that.
	So, like, what you said you're a painter as your like, as your occupation or just a hobby?
	It started because I wanted to do tattoo art, and then I kind of didn't want to sit there for eight hours, and you can't erase it.
	So, at least this way, you can kind of paint over it, you know.
	And is that how you make money?
	That's like your full-time career.
	I model sometimes, but just like avant-garde modeling.
	So, like, I don't know, nothing specific, no brands.
	Okay, yeah.
	And you live where?
	I live in LA.
	You live in LA?
	And do you survive off of painting?
	I do.
	I sell, like, I can do one for like $1,200.
	All right.
	Yeah.
	So you sell drugs?
	Is that you're a drug dealer?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So that's your, you don't have any other income stream?
	I was in a relationship for a long time.
	So.
	Okay.
	Oh, you did you just recently break up?
	Or wait, is that somebody eight months ago?
	Oh, that's you.
	Okay, so somebody else just like broke up a week ago.
	So, okay.
	All right.
	So you were like living with him and he was sugar daddy.
	No.
	Oh, sorry.
	No, no, no.
	My bad.
	I've worked on like Melrose before and stuff.
	And I'm and how long has painting been your full-time career or job?
	Seriously, over the last two years, but other than that, it was just kind of a hobby.
	It's still a hobby.
	Okay, all right.
	What about you?
	Yeah, my name is Kyla Turner.
	You can find me online at NotSoArudite Everywhere.
	I'm 31.
	My job is this.
	I do content creation full-time.
	And by content creation, I realize the space that I'm in, I mean like political commentary and kind of socio-political commentary.
	I am from, where am I from?
	I live in Tampa area now, but I'm originally from Canada.
	And my education, I've got an honors undergrad in psychology and a degree in psychometrics, a graduate diploma.
	All right.
	And you said you're from Canada originally?
	Originally, yeah.
	Okay, got it.
	And now you're living in Florida?
	All right, cool.
	What about you?
	My name is Lexi.
	I'm 21, about to be 22.
	I live in Westminster, California, and I work in a baking studio.
	All right.
	Any college or anything like that?
	No, just high school.
	Just high school.
	Okay.
	And you work in a baking studio, you said?
	Yeah.
	Okay, gotcha.
	All right, welcome.
	What about you?
	Hi, I'm Sophia.
	I'm 24.
	I do social media and OnlyFans, OnlyFans mostly.
	And I live in LA, but originally from Washington State.
	All right.
	And I also graduated high school early.
	No college.
	No college.
	And how long have you been in Los Angeles?
	Since January, so four or five months.
	And when did you start your OF?
	Two years ago.
	Two years ago.
	Okay, gotcha.
	Did you move to Los Angeles to kind of for professional or career purposes?
	Like it's a better spot to do.
	I was in San Diego.
	Oh, you're in San Diego before?
	I'm from Washington State.
	Okay.
	After high school, I went to Hawaii, then San Diego.
	Now I'm in L.A. Got it.
	I was driving back and forth between San Diego and L.A. constantly, so I moved up here.
	All right, cool.
	What about you?
	I'm Charlie Campbell.
	I'm from Los Angeles.
	I have a degree in anthropology from the University of Central Florida.
	I'm 25, and for a living, I'm an EMT and a little bit of an actress.
	Okay.
	Traditional acting, not adult content.
	Got it.
	Okay, 25, and are you in the, maybe I'm thinking of somebody else.
	Are you in the military or?
	I am, yes.
	What branch of the military?
	U.S. Army.
	U.S. Army.
	Okay.
	National Guard.
	Are you enlisted or officer?
	I'm enlisted.
	Okay.
	I work in field artillery.
	Field artillery.
	And I might have missed this.
	Any college or no?
	Yeah, I majored in my bachelor's in anthropology with a minor in linguistics.
	Bachelor of Arts.
	Yeah.
	With a linguistics.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And what rank are you in the U.S. Army?
	What's your rank?
	Dang, you want my whole life story.
	I guess.
	I'm an E5.
	E5.
	Okay.
	God.
	All right.
	Cool.
	What about you?
	Hi, my name is Kelly Vargas.
	I'm originally from Long Island, New York.
	Currently live in LA.
	I'm 28 years old, and I'm a singer-songwriter.
	I went to Berkeley College of Music for a bachelor's in music.
	Gotcha.
	And you said you're a singer?
	Singer-songwriter.
	Singer-songwriter.
	Can we get a little a cappella or?
	Crazy.
	I mean, anything?
	You said you do your own, like you write your own music.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, give us one of your originals, I guess.
	Maybe like, not the whole thing, like 30 seconds or.
	From time to time, something that's always just crossing my mind.
	We can deny energies that's always feeling aligned.
	I can't break free.
	Won't you let me drown in my own desire?
	Won't you just let it be between you and me?
	Only getting us tired.
	It just makes me wonder why I'm a devil in disguise.
	And you don't mind?
	All right.
	Thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it.
	Whatever now owns that.
	Wait, so for an education, you said you went to Berkeley School of Music.
	In Boston, yeah.
	Into the mic, if you can?
	In Boston.
	Okay.
	Just keep an eye on mics for me because I can't really, if somebody just shouted out for me, go ahead.
	My name's Jim Bob.
	I'm a political cartoonist.
	You can find my comics at Made by Jim Bob on Instagram.
	I'm also a live streamer at Made by Jim Bob at YouTube.
	Age, did you say age?
	44.
	44.
	All right.
	Welcome, welcome.
	Jay, what about you?
	Yeah, Jay Dyer.
	I do comedy.
	I do media.
	I do geopolitical analysis, host the Alex Jones show for the last five years, right for the Sam Hyde Show.
	And I'm a YouTuber, and I'm 46.
	46.
	All right.
	And then education.
	I did undergrad in philosophy in Kentucky, and then my grad work is psychological warfare and literature.
	Was that at a university?
	Yeah, Murray State.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	Is that English?
	I didn't.
	There's white English.
	Was your Master's of Arts in English?
	It's English and Philosophy degree.
	Quality Cognate.
	What?
	You said the psychological warfare?
	Yeah, my focus in grad work was on psychological warfare and media.
	So are you an expert in psychological warfare?
	I don't know about an expert.
	But you've studied it.
	You've studied it.
	Yeah, I'm published on that.
	Okay, in peer review.
	Tell us, how do you do psychological warfare?
	Can you tell us that?
	Well, I study Do It.
	I studied the way that James Bond was used in the Cold War as a symbol for Western geopolitics, Western liberal economic theory.
	So you can use fictional characters as a way to do culture war.
	Okay, got it.
	So like psychological warfare through media.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Interesting.
	Fiction movies, et cetera.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Got three books on Hollywood.
	Do you think like Titanic was psychological warfare?
	Sometimes the blockbusters are, but I don't think Titanic is.
	What about Taylor Swift?
	Taylor Swift.
	Well, NATO said they wanted to use Taylor Swift for psyops, so maybe.
	What about Top Gun?
	Top Gun actually was.
	Yeah, there was money.
	Reagan put money into military recruitment using Top Gun.
	Yes, correct.
	There you go.
	Rock and roll.
	What's like the number one film?
	If you had a, maybe not the number one, if you had to point to a film that was used as psychological warfare, what would you think it would be?
	Probably the best example what I focused on was the James Bond franchise as a whole.
	That's like the best example.
	And it was explicitly done for that purpose.
	Got it.
	Okay, cool.
	Well, welcome, everybody.
	We're going to go around the table once more.
	So what's everybody's current relationship status?
	If you're single, how long have you been single?
	And what's the longest relationship you've ever been in?
	Go ahead.
	I've been single since December, and the longest relationship that I've been in is a year and a half.
	All right.
	So you've been single for about six months.
	Yeah.
	Longest year and a half.
	Was that the one that ended six months ago?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Who broke up with who?
	I broke up with him.
	You broke up with him?
	All right.
	And then have you been, has there been a rebound?
	No.
	No rebound?
	No.
	You've been just totally single for six months.
	Okay.
	And all right.
	What about you?
	Married for seven years, dated for a year and a half before that.
	He's my guy.
	So together total like eight and a half years.
	All right.
	Longest relationship prior to him?
	I mean, we got married when I was like 24.
	So him.
	Yeah.
	Have you had other relationships?
	Yeah, but they were, I don't think any of them were.
	I'm like serious.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And how did you guys meet?
	It's very cringily wholesome.
	We both worked at a non-profit high-risk kids' youth camp.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Rock and roll.
	What about you?
	I'm single.
	As of, I guess, timeline's a little confusing.
	I'd say like February, probably.
	What do you mean it's confusing?
	Like, were you?
	I mean, I don't want to go.
	No.
	Like, you don't remember it?
	I'm going to go all into it now.
	I can save time for it.
	But we both entered the relationship as like spiritual, and then he is in a Muslim family.
	I'm in a Christian family.
	We both went back to our religions.
	And it's about like a year and a half in.
	He just wanted to be Muslim again.
	And then we kind of had a companionship for like a year and a half.
	And it was really confusing.
	So we've like still been in contact with each other, but we're not really romantically involved.
	It's really.
	When's the last time you spoke to him?
	Like recently, like probably like a week ago, but it was just over some things we have to figure out still.
	When's the last time you saw him in person?
	It's probably been like a month, I would say.
	But it was just, again, trying to figure things, loose ends.
	We were like living together and stuff like that.
	So it was like financial stuff.
	Yeah, stuff like that, basically.
	Yeah.
	It's really confusing.
	So you guys split up in February, so about four months ago.
	Yeah, I had someone come move in with me temporarily, so he left, and then we kind of just.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	But you, ever since the, I guess, the breakup four months or in February, there's not been any.
	I've been talking to people.
	I went on dating apps.
	That's it.
	No, but like with him.
	Yeah, oh, with him.
	Oh, I'm so sorry.
	There have been carnal knowledge.
	No, no, no, no.
	There wasn't for a year, the last year and a half was kind of what I'm getting at.
	Like, we were not romantically involved.
	It was like a companionship.
	It was very strange.
	And how long were you guys together?
	Three years.
	Three years.
	So this is longest.
	Longest relationship?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So when you first met, you guys were spiritual, then you got more in touch with your Christianity.
	He got more in touch with Islam.
	Did you try to convert each other?
	So we were really respectful of each other's religions, but I think the hope was maybe one of us would eventually.
	Now that's a dating show.
	Try to convert each other.
	Oh, yeah.
	Seriously.
	It's a rough one.
	But yeah, it didn't work.
	So, yeah.
	So now we just let it be what it is.
	And you said, though, since you guys have broken up, you have been dating other people.
	Yeah, I've gone on some dates and talked to a few people.
	When's the last time you went on a date?
	It was a week ago.
	All right.
	Was it the first date, second date, third date?
	First date.
	First date.
	All right.
	And so do you have a roster currently?
	I do not.
	No.
	I don't like it.
	I haven't liked any of them.
	They're all really weird.
	They're all weird.
	They're so weird.
	Are you weird?
	Maybe.
	I think I'm attracting weird people.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And what makes them weird, I guess?
	Well, it's kind of a lot of them have been kind of like almost meeting a lot of men who are like, kind of want to be like passenger princess, like they're kind of almost feminine.
	And it's kind of, it's strange.
	And they've also, like, two of them were like shorter than I thought they would be.
	And I'm talking like an inch shorter than me.
	And I didn't expect that.
	How tall are you?
	I'm 5'6.
	Okay.
	And I'm okay with like my height, but it was like shorter than me.
	And I didn't know that.
	And it was just really weird and awkward.
	So yeah, I don't know.
	How were you meeting these guys?
	Dating apps?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Unfortunately.
	So they were relying on their dating profile?
	Yeah, or they just didn't put it.
	Yeah.
	Or they didn't show it.
	Got it.
	Yeah.
	Can I just have you scoot your microphone that way?
	Or sorry, that way.
	Yep.
	All right.
	What about you?
	Recently single.
	Recently single.
	Okay.
	Like a week ago?
	I'm talking a week ago.
	One week.
	Okay.
	How long were you dating the guy?
	Four months, like basically since I moved to LA.
	All right.
	Who broke up with who?
	I broke up with him.
	Why?
	Over a lot of things.
	We tend to argue a little bit, but we just didn't have the same preferences.
	Meaning sexual preferences.
	Oh, was he?
	It just wasn't aligned.
	Was he gay?
	He was gay.
	No, I think I just wanted more than what I was receiving.
	Oh, so you, wait, you had a high sex drive and he had a low sex drive?
	No, sex drive was fine, I think preferences wise.
	Did you wanted to peg him?
	No.
	I think I just, I really like it, like, rough.
	Like, beat the shit out of me rough.
	Like, it's like, and he just wasn't comfortable with that, and I don't think it was.
	Wait, you.
	So there, well, there's different levels of rough, you're saying there's rough, then there's beat the shit out of you, rough.
	I'm talking about catch a case rough.
	I'm talking like a cute little black guy, rough.
	Wait, sorry, repeat that.
	Wait, what?
	Wait, cute.
	I'm sweating.
	Is it a reference?
	I don't know the reference guy, right?
	Cute little black eye.
	Black eye.
	Oh, I thought you said black guy.
	Oh, no.
	Everyone heard cute little black guys.
	They're all like, I guess they could be a little cute little black eye.
	Like a little, like, you know, a little choke, like lots of choking.
	I'll slap them, maybe, like, you know, leave a mark here and there.
	Okay.
	Is that what you wanted to do to him?
	No, I wanted that done to me.
	And he wasn't comfortable, which, hey, I totally get it.
	Like, that can, you know, turn into other things, but that's what I like.
	I don't know.
	So it just wasn't mixing.
	I mean, you can't live your life forever not doing what you want to do.
	Yeah.
	So essentially, he just wasn't willing to do that.
	Enough.
	Yeah.
	And, okay.
	All right.
	Was he otherwise great?
	Yeah, he's pretty cool.
	Oh, okay.
	He was okay.
	So just wasn't hurting you enough.
	And so that was the.
	Just wasn't a criminal.
	Just wasn't willing to.
	I guess so, yeah.
	Okay.
	All right.
	You know, look, I guess people have their, you know.
	Maybe we'll, you know what?
	I want to get into that a little bit.
	Not once.
	Well, not into that, but I mean, I want to discuss it.
	So are you?
	Is this like a BDSM thing?
	Or you just enjoy roughly?
	Yeah, I wouldn't say I put like a BDSM, BDSM label on it.
	I guess it's just what I prefer.
	I don't know.
	Maybe it's the corn I watch.
	I don't know.
	Maybe I'm ruined.
	Okay.
	And this was your longest, or no, what was your longest relationship?
	A year and a half.
	Year and a half.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Who broke up with you in that relationship?
	I left him.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	I'm currently engaged and it's long distance.
	And we've been together for about two years now.
	And I don't know.
	Okay.
	Has it always been long distance?
	Not entirely.
	When we first met, I was actually working at a prison in Florida and she was working at an Air Force base in also Florida.
	And that's when we started talking and dating.
	Are you a lesbian?
	I'm bisexual.
	Bisexual.
	Okay.
	So, okay, engaged for, and you've been seeing each other for two years.
	Yeah.
	A little over two years, but yeah.
	She currently lives in Washington, D.C., and I live in LA.
	Okay.
	I know.
	But like, no, we fly out and see each other like every month.
	So it's like, if it's long distance, but like honestly, not really, since we see each other for like six or seven days a month out of the month.
	So it's like.
	All right.
	Cool.
	And is this complicated?
	Is this your longest relationship?
	It is, and it's also my healthiest.
	All right.
	You said two years together?
	Yes.
	All right.
	Cool.
	What about you?
	I'm currently single and not counting situationships.
	It's been about like six years, I think, since I've been in a committed relationship.
	Okay.
	There have been some situationships.
	The longest relationship?
	About a year.
	All right.
	One year.
	How many, in the past six years that you've been single, how many situationships have you had?
	A lot.
	Define, what's a lot?
	More than enough, I would say.
	Too many people that just.
	Oh my God.
	I mean, I would say maybe like over 10, if you want a number.
	Over 10, sure.
	And how long do they typically last?
	Short term, like three months, Matt.
	A couple months, okay.
	Are you currently in a situationship?
	No, I just got out of one a couple months ago.
	A couple months ago, okay.
	Are there any guys in the picture currently?
	No.
	No guys?
	Nope.
	Are you on dating apps?
	I am on and off.
	I have like a hate relationship with it.
	Love hate.
	Love hate.
	Okay.
	So no guys in the picture, though.
	No.
	Not even texting.
	You don't have a sneaky link, nothing.
	No, I mean, I am like going on dates, first dates, they're just not sticking on both ends.
	Not sticking.
	Okay, all right.
	Got it.
	Jim Bob, what about you?
	Nine years with my wife.
	Happy Mother's Day, Megan.
	Let's get some W's for all the mothers in the chat.
	Happy Mother's Day.
	W's.
	And definitely the longest relationship.
	All right.
	Jay, what about you?
	Married for five years, and we dated for about four before that.
	So I've been with Jamie for the past nine years.
	And yeah.
	Do you have any kids, Jay?
	We do not have kids, no.
	And Jim Bob, do you have three?
	Anybody, kids?
	Kids?
	Could you imagine if I announced my pregnancy like right now?
	I'm not pregnant.
	You should.
	I'm not pregnant.
	I could lie for you.
	One on the way.
	Give us the exclusive when you are pregnant, I guess.
	We'll see.
	We'll negotiate a price.
	Love it.
	All right.
	That's everybody's relationship status.
	Really quickly, I'm just going to pull up.
	We have a chat coming through.
	We have ID Bro.
	This is related to the debate from yesterday.
	erudite is wrong flowers were uh somehow okay jews were patrilineal until around 29 to 4 bce The change was made by Hillel and the Senhedrine.
	Did I say that right?
	Due to the issue of Jewish identity of Roman love babies, political issues with Harad's kids.
	So he's basically saying there was a time when Jewish people were patrilineal, and then like basically for the rest of their history, they've been matrilineal.
	So I'm not really sure why that's a correction, but thanks, buddy.
	That's like more nuance.
	Appreciate it.
	Rock and roll.
	She's right.
	I don't know.
	Yo, Thomas, thank you for the $2 on Cash App.
	If you guys want to support, you can do so.
	Venmo Cash App Whatever Pod.
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	And yeah, so we're going to just jump.
	Actually, before we jump into the show notes, I want to touch back on that thing really quick.
	Is it, so, Jay, are you, you're an Orthodox Christian?
	Is it okay to do that shit if you're a Christian or especially an Orthodox Christian?
	Jim Bob, Jay?
	Can you do that?
	I mean, I think there's that levity.
	There's room for, you know, things between a husband and a wife.
	So there are some lines.
	I don't know that there's an easy, hard-set line as to what that is that maybe a husband and wife have to determine.
	But I do think that there might be a danger in this situation.
	I'm not saying this about you, but like there could be a situation where if you requested that, like that could put the dude in a legal situation.
	You know what I mean?
	Like not that you would necessarily do that, but you might say, oh, look, you know, if you guys have a fight, right?
	Like, well, look what he did to me.
	So it's just like, I think there's a lot of reasons and ways why it's just not safe for a dude necessarily to get into that.
	And I would say that, yeah, like from a religious perspective, it's odd.
	I don't know.
	I would add that if that type of thing continued, let's say you got married and you had children, it would certainly be confusing for the child if they were to find out the way daddy loves mommy actually is harmful.
	It might actually produce a scenario where the children end up seeking people to hurt them because they think that's love.
	Well, I'm so sorry to interject.
	I feel like there's a way to work around that as in maybe have like a boundary and that's something you probably discuss with your partners.
	Like, hey, as long as it's in an area that's concealable, like under the collarbones, it's fair game.
	But like your face, something that you have to use and see every single day, maybe that can be spoken about.
	It doesn't necessarily mean like punch me in my face, you know.
	I don't know.
	I mean, then I would say that that's actually then practicing sort of some level of deception and withhold, which is another practice that might be into question.
	Like not telling your kids your kinks is the deception?
	Well, I mean, if you're, if you're, it doesn't change the fact that your husband or the father, you know, your father is harming, what's definitionally harming your mother.
	Do you would you though, like for other kinks, because this is obviously like a pretty extreme kink, what kinks are allowed in Eastern Orthodox?
	I actually don't know.
	I wouldn't know what's considered a kink and what's considered just like creative vanilla sex is going to be like a kink.
	So like can you piss on each other in Eastern Orthodox?
	I'm just going to guess no.
	I would say that would be a perversion.
	That's a perversion.
	What about oral sex?
	I'm not sure what a priest, I've never had that conversation.
	Do you have to tell your kids about it?
	Or are you being deceptive to your kids if you don't tell them about your kink practice with your?
	Well, I mean, you don't have to be explicit with what's considered sexuality, but what's considered sexuality would still have a standard underneath a Christian view and then what's considered a perversion would also have that.
	But outside of Christianity there's no such thing as perversion outside of.
	So Non-Christians can't do perverse things, or well, they can do it, but they don't have, I'm saying, their worldview.
	They can't tell you what's perverse, what's proper, what's normal.
	It's all just kind of like preference.
	If you feel something from something and you feel good from someone doing something otherwise, let's say perverse, in another paradigm, you can't really say it's wrong or or right or good or bad.
	It's just.
	Oh, you're saying secular people can't like weigh in on what.
	Yeah, they can't really.
	There's no standard there.
	Gotcha, I guess i'm not really thinking about children when i'm doing this.
	I don't really have like a future of having children, so I guess I never thought of it in that way.
	I can see that.
	Yeah, I think maybe if I did mature a little, grow up a little, maybe it wouldn't be a thing, but I have no way of yeah see, foreseeing the future.
	Do you think you'll want kids when you get older?
	Maybe I feel like i'm 24 now.
	That's still very young, but you know, women only have a period of time where they can really decide and actually do it.
	Um, and as for now, my answer is no.
	Who's gonna take care of you later on in life?
	I don't know.
	I don't really think about the future that way.
	I guess um, I feel like that's kind of like i'm trying to find the words um, I feel like that's a burden that the children didn't ask for.
	You know, you shouldn't have kids just because you want somebody to take care of you in your old age.
	Well, I didn't say that that's the only reason.
	Well no no no, I know um, and i'm not implying that, i'm just saying that in general.
	Um, I think there should be that.
	That shouldn't even be an expectation.
	Is it nice to have kids that that take care of you when you're old?
	Absolutely, that'd be nice, but that's not an expectation that should be set forth.
	I don't think it is.
	Well yeah, it is duty.
	And also, I don't think the reasoning using the reason.
	I don't think that's a burden a kid asked for.
	Well, from that logic, a kid didn't ask to be born or to be uh to have the burden of learning a language properly, schooling everything else you could put under that umbrella of burdenship.
	I don't think people actually have a say a lot of times of what their burden is right and and just to respond to that is I, like, for example, I do plan on taking care of my mother and I am an EMT.
	I drop off old people, you know, to their facilities all the time.
	And sometimes I look at their ages and I'm like, wow, my mom's only like six years younger than that.
	And these people are like completely bedridden.
	And so I do think like I am going to take care of my mom, but just sometimes shit hits the fan and you don't have that great relationship with your parents or maybe they're crappy parents and you feel like you owe them nothing.
	And I know that that can lead into like, well, they gave you life, they raise you, they fed you, they clothed you, but a lot of times it's not even the case.
	Yeah, it's not a universal rule.
	Like there could be exceptions, but you wouldn't make the exceptions the universal rule because there are exceptions.
	So I think most people's parents do provide for them and the expectation is that you would then return the favor when they get older.
	For sure.
	But there could be toxic people who are completely, you know, dangerous or something.
	No, for sure.
	And you mentioned like duty, a duty according to whom, I guess.
	Like for me, it's like I would do it because growing up, this is like my life story.
	Growing up, my mom was a janitor for three different things.
	Single mom, mostly.
	I saw my dad like every third weekend, but my mom worked basically on top of child support, worked three jobs as a janitor for a college, a school, and a church.
	And she put a lot of expectation for me to go to school.
	And that's why, like, for example, I joined the military so that I can get my school paid for because I didn't want to burden my mom with probably having to pick a fourth or fifth job just to pay my way through.
	And so to me, it's like genuine, like, okay, I will take care of you because you've raised me into the person that I am today.
	And so I guess to circle back, long story short, Kake, I guess, what do you define as like duty?
	Like what's who, a duty according to whom?
	Well, I mean, I get my duties from an Orthodox Christian paradigm.
	I would say that absent that, just like other standards, I don't think anyone has a duty outside of that worldview.
	Okay.
	And for you?
	I mean, it's, yeah, I have a similar take as Jim Bob.
	I mean, there are duties that would be informed by the worldview that you have, your upbringing by your parents.
	And I mean, again, I think even if you have bad parents, you still probably want to return the favor to some degree.
	I mean, I was raised by a single mom.
	I had an absentee dad, but I would still take care of my dad.
	He's in bad health right now.
	So we try to help him out as best we can.
	But I mean, I think this is just an expectation that most civilizations, most cultures had until we got to modernity where you can kind of be this individual with no ties, no boundaries, no expectations, no duties.
	So we're living this weird experiment that it's ahistorical, it's weird.
	Even the current family structure, usually it's our, at least Jay and I share a worldview where you kind of defend the family in a nuclear sense, but then you go, wait a second, even that is individualistic if you really think about it comparatively to other cultures or historically where there was like a big generational family.
	And now you have this unit and now inside the unit, now you have even more individual units.
	And I think when he says modernity, like individualism, materialism, pursuing wants and desires above all things, go live your life, do what you want to do.
	People are kind of drawn into a mindset, basically inherit a mindset that justifies just their own personal pursuits.
	And this is where you get into these issues of like, well, is there any obligation to the collective at all?
	At this point, it's actually hard to see for a lot of people that there's something beyond their own life and what they want.
	Is there anything?
	Is there anything else?
	That's really interesting.
	Super, are you guys then pretty opposed to capitalism?
	No.
	I mean, to a degree.
	Like, is there, what economic system do you guys prefer?
	Like communism, like high regulation of markets?
	I think capitalism can be kind of like a tool.
	It's like asking like if a hammer is wrong.
	I think capitalism itself and what it produces without any sort of ethical paradigm that's guiding it is horrific.
	Sure.
	So like the reason I'm asking is you talked about like individualism and whatnot, which is very, in many ways, what drives a lot of capitalism, right?
	It's like individual want and whims and materialism is pretty central to especially our modern day capitalism.
	So you're pretty opposed to capitalism.
	It's not the opposition to capitalism itself.
	Like I said, you can oppose a number of things if it doesn't have a guiding ethical principle.
	So for instance, I'm not opposed to people using their God-given gifts in exchange for money or other things.
	That's just like an exchange of your will and your labor.
	If that's inside of a system you call it capitalistic, then fine.
	But I think Jay will add that the complexity and the implications of capitalism at a larger scale is beyond what most people consider favorable.
	Like, you know what I mean?
	Like it gets to some limit.
	Yeah, so you guys would be for like a decent amount of government regulation to ensure like some level of ethical principle maintained by the capitalist structure.
	So you guys kind of want that government oversight.
	Obviously you might not want this government.
	I'm not sure if you've got that right because I mean you have tariffs.
	Tariffs are a way to protect the nation state and the people that work in that nation state.
	It's one purpose of purpose.
	So to get rid of, I didn't say it was the only purpose.
	I said it's a purpose.
	So you don't have to correct that because it was just a sentence.
	You don't have to let me know because I know what I'm talking about.
	If you ask me a question, I'm going to finish it.
	Okay.
	Go for it.
	So tariffs protect the workers of that nation and monarchies, which were patriarchy.
	They can be, yeah.
	The ones in Western civilization.
	Well, there's lots of things that could be in Western civilization, just like ancient Israel.
	They were patriarchal.
	Those protected the workers.
	So there has to be some degree of structure and limitation to the economy.
	So yes, a limited economic control.
	And guilds were kind of cool, no?
	That's where the purpose of guilds and tariffs is similar, yeah.
	To be union.
	I guess similar.
	The original purpose of unions was, yes, to guard against monopoly capitalism.
	So to answer your question, monopoly capitalism, yes, is a problem.
	But the basic principles of like Austrian economics, free market, I have a Bitcoin shirt.
	No, it's not bad.
	Okay, all right.
	This all came from Ref Sex.
	Interesting how conversations will meander their way to different things.
	Getting into the pre-show notes, why don't we start with, I will start with Sophia.
	So you said your ex-boyfriend, is this the one you just broke up with or a different one?
	Okay, ex-boyfriend scammed you, scammed you in many ways.
	He made fake stalking emails to get you to move to San Diego with him.
	Then he got you into OnlyFans and ultimately pimped you out on OnlyFans and took almost all of your money.
	He put an Amex, put an Amex card under your name.
	He stole your social security number, spent over $20,000, left you in debt, hacked all your socials and OnlyFans and continues to do it to every other girl he deals with.
	So I guess what's the story there?
	That's like a long, long, long story.
	But yeah, I mean, just from the beginning, the whole stalking emails, I was living in Hawaii on my own, met him on Hinge when he was visiting Hawaii.
	We did long distance for maybe like a month or two.
	I was 19 at the time, or 20, 19 or 20 at the time, very dumb, very delusional.
	And yeah, he sent me a bunch of emails basically saying like, I know where you live.
	You just walked in with your groceries.
	I'm going to come up and, you know, SA you, all, all the things, very scary, very, and it was him the whole time.
	And I knew because after I moved in with him into San Diego and all of that stuff, I went through his computer and saw all of the emails from different fake emails of him emailing me from a number of emails.
	But that ultimately got me to move from Hawaii to San Diego out of fear, basically.
	Okay.
	But yeah, the whole getting me to do OnlyFans thing, he just said that he knew how to do it.
	He knew how he was going to get me to make money.
	And I mean, I was down.
	I'm not saying he forced me to do it, but I am saying that he got me to do a lot of things that I wouldn't have done at the age that I was at or where I was at at the time.
	Wait, wouldn't have done absent what?
	Like, if you say, there's a bunch of things I did at the time that I otherwise wouldn't have done other.
	I wouldn't have put my entire body on the internet and done the things that he had me do on video.
	If not, what?
	Is it persuasion?
	Is it persuasion?
	Yeah, it was that.
	And like I said, I know there'll be a huge argument over forced and persuasion and you have a choice and whatnot.
	Like I said, I was delusional and I was very young and I wasn't sticking up for myself.
	Seeing as how you're not with him now, and this is like an honest question that comes from like, I'm just, I want to know.
	There's no like loaded meaning.
	Do you choose to plan on stopping at any point?
	No, like this is my life now, honestly.
	Like it is what it is.
	But I'm a whole different person now because of it.
	So like I said, I wouldn't have done those things when I was 19 and 20, but I did it and now I'm full-blown doing it.
	Like I didn't stop doing OnlyFans when I left him because like to be fair, like the money's very good.
	I like working from home.
	I like doing what I do now.
	And I am doing it to my extent now.
	I'm doing it to my comfortability now.
	I'm in charge.
	Like on your own terms, basically.
	Yeah, I wasn't in charge in any way.
	Like he had my passwords.
	He had my everything.
	He sent me things to do.
	He made like I say he made me get on OnlyFans Live because he did.
	Like he put me in the room.
	He shut the door.
	He turned the camera.
	Like he made me go live.
	And if I didn't, it would have been a fight, more or less.
	You said the money is really good.
	Are you able to share like how much you make on average?
	I'm making around like $25K a month.
	Okay.
	And what's the highest you've ever made in a month?
	Have you ever made it?
	$40,000.
	$40K.
	Okay.
	Cool.
	And then you also, in your notes here, you said you wanted to speak on leaving toxic men and how to know you're dating a con artist.
	Because I dated, he was a conversation.
	That was the guy.
	38, I think, when I met him, 37 when I met him.
	His hinge profile said 30.
	He said he was six foot.
	Oh, he lied about his.
	Sorry, his height.
	He was maybe 5'6.
	And he said he was 6' when I met him.
	Oh, man, you got conned.
	Yeah.
	You did get conned.
	Shit.
	Why did you stay with him?
	For the length that you did.
	Like, what do you think kept you?
	I don't know, honestly.
	I'm not asking that in like a judge.
	I'm not asking in a judgy way.
	I'm genuinely curious.
	Like, what?
	He wasn't the height you wanted.
	He wasn't the age you wanted.
	So, like, a lot of the people.
	I didn't want anything.
	I didn't, I didn't, I didn't want a certain age.
	I didn't want a certain height.
	I'm just saying he lied.
	Yeah.
	I'm saying he's a, he, he lies about everything.
	He lives a lie.
	I think he had said, I mean, even like, I probably, like, this kind of messed up, but like, his teeth and his jaw, like, he had the worst underbite.
	He had the worst mouth, the worst breath, the worst everything.
	But he told me that he got into a surfing accident the first day I met him, and that's why his entire mouth was messed up.
	Later, finding out that that was never a truthful thing.
	What was it really?
	What was the actual born that way?
	Oh, just born that way.
	Just born with horrendous teeth.
	I mean, the breath is your fault, but that's fucking disgusting.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Is anybody else at the table born this way?
	Wait, how did you say born that way?
	I don't remember.
	There's like a disorder that some people will be born with where like their jaw is super receded.
	There's like a confusion.
	Yeah, I mean, well, there's like cleft lip or cleft.
	I'm talking like one dog underbite.
	Yeah.
	Well, I didn't mean if anybody else at the table was born that way.
	I don't know.
	I was born without a jaw.
	So this is actually a big jaw.
	Wait, really?
	No.
	No, I wasn't even talking about jaws, just like anything, whatever.
	Okay, cool.
	We're going to go to, remind me how to pronounce your name.
	It's Hyacinth.
	Hyacinth Hyacinth.
	Okay, Hyacinth.
	I noticed on your Instagram.
	There's a tattoo that you have.
	It's on your leg.
	It says, well-behaved women really make, or excuse me, rarely make history.
	Two questions.
	Are you well-behaved?
	I am.
	I'm a poser.
	And then, secondly, have you made history?
	No, I haven't.
	So I guess I'm doing it all wrong.
	Your tattoo is very contradictory.
	I was very first one, and I really liked Marilyn Monroe.
	So cliche, Pinterest.
	Okay.
	One thing led to another.
	I wonder if a woman's actually ever in the history quoted that or has like that tattoo and actually made history.
	Like it's kind of this justification women will use who will never make history to act like either degenerates or assholes.
	I actually think it's totally opposite.
	Like just to tilt the term make history across time, it's actually well-behaved women who make societies work and they actually are the ones who make history.
	Yeah.
	What defines well-behaved to you?
	Just generally submissive to the men.
	Who's on board?
	Oh, go ahead.
	Well, you're in the military.
	Like, you understand submission, right?
	Just in the structure.
	No, I do.
	I'm just saying that, like, I'm thinking we're going to talk about this later down the line.
	That's why I was just like, okay.
	Like, we'll let you think that for a while.
	Wait, wait, what do you mean?
	Let's go.
	Like, I don't know.
	I'm just saying that, like, oh, we'll discuss it in a bit.
	So, I'm like, oh, okay.
	Yeah, so I'm just like.
	So, how did you get the all-seeing eye tattoo?
	What's the purpose of that?
	I on your hand.
	Do you want to show it to the camera?
	Yeah.
	I was dating a guy at the time, and I was doing like henna and I didn't have any tattoos.
	And he was like, You should.
	Give us the knuckles.
	Oh, it did not age well.
	Oh, can I see?
	Wait, no, go like this into this camera, face this camera.
	Stay woke.
	Stay woke.
	I don't stay liberal either.
	Oh, that's a political stance.
	She'd just be getting petty.
	I did.
	I really did.
	Yeah.
	You should go on the other one.
	It should be go broke.
	I don't know.
	Stay broke.
	Okay.
	Well, did anybody, to Jim Bob's point here, you were saying how, what, women should be submissive, basically?
	Is that what that is?
	Yeah, I mean, it's a larger statement than just the cliche of like, follow me, woman.
	Society is structured, like Jay was pointing to, the military structure.
	And so societies are structured hierarchically, and they're structured patriarchically.
	Even if you pretend they aren't, they just deaf, they are functionally.
	And so if you follow an ordered system called a society, you actually are submissive, just definitionally.
	By that, like what when you're saying submissive, do you mean like at a system level?
	Like are you talking about like women having rights to land ownership?
	Let's just say following laws.
	That's submissive.
	But then we probably want men to be submissive too.
	So that's not how we would delineate women.
	Yeah, men, actually from a Christian paradigm, women, if a man is not submissive to a higher order, Christianity God, if he's not within that paradigm, the woman can't really see reflectively why she should be submissive.
	Yeah, but when you say women be submissive, I think we're assuming that you mean something separate from men, right?
	So I don't think like not murdering is what you mean when you say women should be submissive.
	I'm just trying to detail, like when you say women be submissive, what's unique for women?
	Because I'm sure you have things, right?
	Unique to women?
	Well, I would say.
	That men don't need to do.
	Yeah, I would say duties would be like submissive to your duties in a sense, that there's a way the system's ordered.
	Women have duties and then men have duties.
	And so men are, because of their duties, because of their biology, because of their nature, they assume these duties are actually informed by their nature.
	And the women's duties are informed by their nature.
	It's actually the best way to optimize both natures of the man and woman.
	Yeah, I still, I guess I'm trying to get the specifics.
	Like when you say women should be submissive.
	I would say for a society, it's better for a society largely for the women to submit to the roles as childbearers and mothers, maybe even in work to move toward the kinds of work that is aligned with their nature, which they already do, administrative caretakers, teachers.
	And so I would say that from a larger view, that that's a form of submission.
	An act of rebellion is arguing basically what feminism ends up being: an argument against reality as it is and saying, we got to revolutionize this.
	And yet the irony is they can't do a revolution because they need men, which goes back to exactly my point descriptively.
	Yeah, so one thing I was asking, like, should women be able to own land, like private ownership of land?
	Is that submissive or not submissive?
	I'm not sure.
	I actually haven't really thought about whether they should own land.
	My immediate response to that is they can own land, but is anyone else obligated for her to protect the land aside from her?
	From intruders?
	Probably call the police, have like six.
	Are they obligated to show up and protect your land?
	Somebody trespasses.
	They're lawfully not in our society.
	Police officers don't have to arrest trespassers?
	No, that's responding to a violation.
	They have a duty to respond to violations.
	They have no duty to protect your property or your body.
	Yeah, she'll go up and get a gun and a dog and stuff like that.
	Yeah.
	If she gets a gun and a dog and we wish her the best with that, she can try to do that.
	I'm just saying ultimately, for the most part, women are not going to be able to defend their body, their land, their house.
	Sure, but you're fine with them owning the land.
	Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's a big- So you at least align with first-wave feminism.
	You're like, yeah, we should probably.
	No, not really.
	No, the philosophy is different than a particular, but at least you can't say like, you think women should own land, therefore you agree with feminism, right?
	No, but you agree with that element of feminism, right?
	That wouldn't be feminism because that existed prior to feminism.
	I know we had this conversation yesterday.
	We had a really hard time with it yesterday.
	They were afraid for that, right?
	They wanted women to be able to own land regardless of what they were doing.
	Like women having a right to life that existed prior to feminism.
	So that's not feminism in ancient cultures.
	Sure, but women should be able to do that.
	Sure, but that was contrary to what you argued yesterday.
	I can answer if you want to.
	So does that mean that you're wrong?
	She's just going to keep interrupting me.
	Does that mean you were wrong yesterday?
	Do you want me to respond to that?
	Does that mean you were wrong yesterday if you say sure but?
	Nope.
	So the important thing that we delineated yesterday is that women could own land, but it was specifically if they were widows who inherited it through some patrilineal inheritance.
	So if her father willed her land, she could own it.
	Or if her husband died, she could own it.
	But the idea that women could just go out individually and purchase land didn't really exist until after the suffragette movement, right?
	That was part of what the suffragettes were advocating.
	It could be in modernity.
	But again, no, I referenced to you Proverbs 31, which has women also engaging in commerce and even owning their own business.
	So to own a business, you would also potentially have to own land.
	Yeah, the Jews were a lot more matrilineal.
	They were very much more okay.
	So what?
	You don't even know what matrilineal means.
	That's the dissent in terms of how you determine who your people group is.
	That has nothing to do with the social organization of the society, which you admitted was patriarchal.
	Economically.
	Economically in Jewish systems, they would often hand down things to the mother as well, right?
	That was like part of the way to guarantee that the baby was a Jew and that the baby who was inheriting it wasn't.
	It's a liver right law.
	Well, if the woman has been letting you finish, she has.
	Like, I just was paying attention to that spat right now.
	Thank you for being the reference.
	Appreciate it.
	So like in the Jewish thing, part of why the matrilineal thing emerged is because, like I said, if a Jewish woman is raped by a Roman officer, the only way to guarantee that that baby has some Jewish line.
	Wrong word.
	Yeah, good job.
	Sorry.
	Essayed by a Roman officer, then the only way to guarantee that that line is Jewish is to know that it came out of her birth canal.
	Whereas for the fathers, a really big issue that lots of men have today is guarantee that the woman who is his partner is actually having his child versus somebody else.
	This is why oftentimes inheritance was through mothers.
	You know what the Leverite law is?
	The Leverite Law?
	Broadly, but I'm sure there's something specific you want to talk about.
	What is it broadly?
	Since you know Jewish law?
	The Leverite law was like the rabbinic law that Jews operated off of.
	So the Leverite law was kind of one of the highest laws of inheritance.
	It has to do with if I die, my brother marries my wife.
	Right, yes.
	How you have to impregnate the wife.
	Yep, that's okay.
	Does that sound like a matrilineal matriarchal society?
	I didn't say that it was a matriarchal society.
	Right.
	So it's patriarchal.
	Yep.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	And in a society where women own land legally, because that's a legal term, right?
	Is that a matriarchal or a patriarchal?
	It can be both, right?
	The thing that we were talking about, the point that I was making is that if you're for women owning land regardless of their relationship to men, they can just, I can just go out and buy land by myself.
	I don't need my dad or my husband to say yes.
	Is that a legal?
	That's a suffragette position.
	Hold on a second.
	Which is fine for you to decide with.
	That doesn't mean you own all of that.
	Let me ask you a question.
	When you own something, whether it's property, land, a house, an object, is that a legal term?
	Yep.
	Ownership.
	And legality assumes what?
	That you, oh, are you going down the enforcement arm?
	Yes.
	Yeah, it assumes that the authority is being protected by the government that you're.
	In the case that the property is violated, even if the woman's capable of holding a heavy gun and shooting it accurately, it still goes to a system that decides whether she was just in shooting the man, right?
	Yeah, men are stronger, if that's where you're wanting to go.
	It's not just men are stronger, it's that any argument for legal ownership of property, whether it's a house or land or anything else, assumes an enforcement arm that has to be mostly men.
	Sure, but that doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you think women should be able to own private land.
	Well, I know that.
	I'm just saying it's not a point in favor of feminism because it still relies on a patriarchy.
	Well, it is because the suffragettes were the one that asserted it and that was part of the feminist movement.
	So they get the point of the pressure.
	Any instance that you think is a feminist movement forward, do you agree that anything you could list actually requires a patriarchy to uphold?
	Sort of in the way that you're now defining patriarchy as like enforcement arm, sure.
	It's just that's not how anyone engages.
	I'm just saying the patriarchy would be men in power.
	Yeah, but you're talking about men in power in the enforcement arm, not the government system.
	And these are two powerful things.
	What's the government system without power?
	Banking.
	What's banking without power?
	Okay.
	Do you want to go into the history of banking?
	What's banking?
	The exchange of banking, fair exchange of monetary notes and shit, without an enforcement, a threat of force.
	That's true.
	The threat of force is the threat of the power.
	Can I make up money?
	Can I make up any money?
	Sure, but this is going back to Donald Trump obviously has more power than like an E-5 soldier.
	Can I make up any money?
	Can I make up money?
	Can I just make it up?
	It's illegal.
	I mean, for the government, yeah, kind of.
	No, not for the government.
	Can I, as an individual in a society, just make up money?
	Okay.
	And if I do that, what happens?
	You would go to jail.
	And how do I go to jail?
	Mechanically.
	The police will arrest you.
	And are they strong men?
	Often.
	Yeah, okay.
	I mean, not all the time.
	There are very capable men.
	They're lowering the state.
	They're not as capable, but they're lowering the standards.
	I just don't know what this has to do with can women own private property.
	Like, I understand.
	Yes, they can.
	We already answered that.
	Well, hold on.
	I understand that for you, like, going back to the enforcement arm dialogue tree is like your strongest position.
	But I'm actually trying to flesh out your ideas about other things because I'm genuinely.
	I understand, but you've got to understand, when we said, yeah, you can own land, you can own stuff, you can participate in the society and the economics, right?
	You basically said, so you agree with feminism.
	No, I'm saying that very clearly that any expression of feminism that you present is actually wholly reliant on something that's not feminist.
	Sure, that just doesn't allow you to.
	That's all I needed to hear.
	Yeah, but that doesn't exist.
	It's not the suffragettes.
	So are you saying that the suffragettes didn't get women's ability to acquire land?
	Men did that for them too.
	The suffragettes had nothing to do with it.
	No, that's just influence.
	I'm not denying people have influence on things.
	Ultimately, what you're asking is the strong person to say it so, right?
	That's what a protest is, right?
	That's fair, but you agree with at least that suffragette point.
	Yeah, it's an appeal to the enforcement arm.
	As a strong man, you're okay with women owning land, and you would protect that right.
	Yeah, if women own land, if my wife owns something.
	Hold on, hold on.
	One sec, guys.
	Okay.
	Go to sources.
	Hit the eye in StreamYard.
	Okay, hold on.
	Continue the conversation.
	Yeah, I would say even myself, if my wife owned land or we co-owned land or she already had land or something like this, what I'm pointing to is that ultimately the ownership of that, we're both going to rely on an enforcement arm.
	That's not going to be feminist.
	Yeah, sure.
	That just has nothing to do with what I was asking you.
	But I understand.
	Like, you want to go back to the enforcement arm.
	You really like that argument.
	But what's the further logical line that you're asking when you ask about property?
	Because if you think women should have the right to own land.
	That's all I'm saying.
	Because you thought that would back up feminism, right?
	Nope, because I'm genuinely curious if you guys think women should own land.
	Do you think that women should be able to open a credit card in their name?
	I think that was a bad idea.
	I think that would have happened in 1970.
	Roughly.
	Yeah, I think the consequences of that being that women now hold 75% of consumer debt, and I don't think debt is pretty good for people.
	I don't think it's a thing that they should be okay with.
	I think people should generally work against that, whether they're a man or a woman, maybe lower their debt.
	I think the burden of debt adds to some stress.
	I think it could actually add to some instability and things like that.
	So, and let's say hypothetically, women weren't allowed to get a credit card.
	Most of history?
	No, no, for sure.
	I'm just saying that, well, credit's relatively new, but that's a whole different conversation that we can be having.
	You're basically saying that I'm trying to think.
	Sorry, I'm trying to phrase the words.
	It's just debt.
	How is credit?
	No, no, it's what if a woman, like in her own time, like this isn't like a requirement that it should be so.
	I'm saying on her own time, she did her research and she got a financial literacy class.
	You're basically saying, well, you can't have it anyway, even if you're more financially literate than other men or than men because you're a woman, is basically where you're going at.
	Because what if she is financially literate?
	Because you're making a broad statement saying women shouldn't have it because they're not financially literate.
	What if they are?
	So, once again, this is like the third time you've argued that the exceptions should make the rule.
	This wouldn't really be an exception based on what line should be.
	Her exception was a woman who went and studied it guys.
	It's not an exception, though, right?
	It's really important.
	Women who study economics better than men is an exception.
	She's asking a line of credit.
	It's an exception.
	Her example is an exception.
	It is.
	Just accepted.
	It's not an exception.
	What's the exception is?
	I did.
	Do you want me to answer?
	How many women go into economics?
	If you want to talk to me, you have to allow me to talk.
	You're just going to interrupt.
	I've already talked about you.
	I know you think this is sick dunk.
	Hey, we're over here.
	I often look up when I think.
	That's fine.
	Apparently.
	So, do you want me to answer you?
	Is that an exception?
	It's not an exception.
	Why?
	Because it's completely normative to assume that multiple women can go and get financial literacy.
	Well, you know, if you're wanting her to stare you in the eyes while arguing, why don't you take your shades off?
	Because I am so much on drugs right now.
	Fair.
	Oh, gosh.
	Okay, then.
	In fairness, he has eye floaters.
	I will give him that point.
	He's got like eye floaters.
	Although it would be better if you took them off.
	Why?
	So that's what I'm saying.
	You want to look in the dazzling, dazzling.
	You've got incredible blue eyes.
	Yeah, that's what I want to do.
	Isn't an exception something that's paired up against most?
	Yeah, but again, you're mostly.
	Yeah, but in this case, hold on.
	Why are you making this so complicated?
	Because you're being false analogous right now.
	What's the false analogy?
	The false analogy is to imply.
	I didn't say yesterday.
	Well, you used it incorrectly last time.
	No, I didn't.
	You did.
	No.
	In fact, where's the analogy anyway?
	The analogy here now is between men and women and a comparison line on financial literacy.
	And so you're saying, well, most women aren't financially literate.
	Well, most men are.
	She said better than men.
	You got to finish.
	Yep.
	So most men are also not financially literally.
	That has nothing to do with her example.
	I will get there if you want to.
	We don't need you to throw about through the whole podcast.
	If you don't want to listen and just interrupt me, that's fine, but then we can't.
	It's a dumb thing.
	You got to let me finish my statement.
	You got to let me finish my statement, Jay.
	Let her be relevant as an exception.
	You got to let her finish my statement.
	Once you're done, I'll go back.
	Hang yourself again.
	Okay, so there are the issues that you're having is that when you're talking about how women are not, most women are not financially literate, men are also not mostly financially literate.
	It's not relevant.
	You need to create a line of credulity beyond financial literacy that makes women exceptionally incapable of having a credit card that men don't have.
	Did you know that?
	If your exceptional line, if your line of credulity, you got to let me finish.
	She said a line of money.
	I'm just going to keep talking until you let me finish.
	You got to let me finish talking.
	I'm just going to keep talking about you, and I'm going to pick up exactly where I was until you're done interrupting.
	I'm going to keep going until you let me pick up exactly where I was.
	You can't filibuster.
	This is all you can't interrupt me.
	This is why you're the worst debate.
	Last time I just let you go.
	Give yourself like 30 seconds.
	I'm just going to wait until you actually let me know.
	It's a female destiny, but you're the crappy version.
	He's one of the greatest debaters on the planet, so that's totally different.
	I think that shows that you're the dumbest person.
	I know.
	Once you're done, I'm going to go about it.
	So the line of credibility.
	Definitely the worst person on the internet.
	Are you ready?
	And you're the worst person.
	Just wait again until you let me know.
	What does that do?
	Yeah, can't interrupt me if you want to talk.
	Okay, so the line of credulity.
	Good one.
	It's just a machine gun.
	The line of credulity.
	The line of credulity that you have to establish at some point is why men are exceptional in the case of credit cards that women are not.
	And the line has to be financial literacy.
	Her example was financial literacy, and there's no reason why a woman cannot be literate.
	Was financial literacy the line that you're subject to?
	I'm not interested to agree with that part, though, as well.
	Yeah, because it helps what you said.
	No, there's no reason a woman can't be financially literate.
	So you shouldn't just have a blanket.
	You said a woman who goes and studies beyond what most men.
	So she says, okay, if your bar of the issue is financial literacy, why can women who become financially literate not apply for a credit card?
	Now you have to establish the reason why a woman who is financially literate can't apply for a credit card.
	I never said that they couldn't.
	Oh, so you're fine with women that are financially literally positions that are not relevant to what she argued.
	So are you okay with women who are financially literate getting a credit card?
	I'm responding to her critique.
	I can let her ask you the same question.
	Exceptions don't make the rule.
	Are you fine with women who are financially literate?
	Are you fine with women who are financially literate getting a credit card?
	It's like talking to a 13-year-old child.
	Do you want to answer?
	Her exceptions don't make this an exception at all.
	Financial literacy is not exceptional.
	A woman who studies it more than the average man.
	She gave you a case study.
	That doesn't mean that.
	That's an exception.
	Thank you.
	No, that was a case.
	It's a case study to test the exception.
	That's an example that's an exception.
	It's not an exception to the rule.
	It's a case study to test your logic.
	How is it a case study?
	She just said an example.
	Because she was giving one person.
	That's not a case study.
	It is.
	It's focusing in.
	An example is a case study?
	Yeah, in this case, it's a focus.
	Who did the study?
	What case?
	Nobody here is.
	Thank you.
	So it's not a case study.
	No, you're just equivocating now where you're acting like when I said that.
	You're using the words that I used yesterday because you're a gaslighter.
	I asked you.
	And you can't actually debate the gaslight from everything that I said yesterday.
	I know you're ruining myself.
	Do you want to list all the fallacies and repeat them?
	I'll just wait for you to be done.
	You want to say a Texas sharpshooter fallacy?
	Because I know you looked it up last night.
	Do you want to do that one now?
	I didn't actually look it up.
	You're belaboring something that you should just concede to.
	I don't need to confuse you.
	She gave an exception.
	This isn't an exception to the rule.
	You're talking over me.
	She gave an exception.
	She listed an exception.
	It's a very specific exception, right?
	She described it.
	Jay responded to the exceptions.
	Not an exception.
	It is.
	How can you not see that?
	This is so simple.
	I can explain to you, again, the reason that it's not an exception is that she wasn't saying in this one unique case where this woman is exceptional.
	She gave an example of a woman who did it.
	Breathe.
	You have to do it.
	That's an exception.
	Jay, you have to let me finish talking, or again, the audience just never gets anything.
	It is so dumb.
	Everyone's IQ literally starts going down points.
	Yeah, good one, Jay.
	Like we're getting to the 80 IQ level every time.
	Once you're done, once you're done, all of your sick debates are going to be a lot of fun.
	My IQ points are going to zero.
	Please, God, please.
	Help me.
	They're almost zero from you talking about it.
	In fairness, Brian, if you want me to engage with this, I can.
	We can also move on.
	But if he's going to engage me, he determines if something's an exception.
	That's a criteria.
	Something that is so atypical would be like less than, I don't know, like 5%.
	It has to be something that is.
	Oh, yes.
	It has to be.
	So that's not normal.
	For example, a way that you could apply this fallacy correctly, if you want me to talk you through it, is say we're talking about body count, and then we find this one case of a woman that has a hundred body count, and it turns out that after she does that, she has a really long, successful marriage in life.
	And if I use that to prove C, body count doesn't matter.
	You would say, well, that's a bit of an exception to the rule.
	That doesn't make that the rule that generally the higher the body count is, that they're more less likely to be consistent.
	I'm just going to yell the whole time.
	Are you done?
	Come on.
	Jay, your friend asked me a question.
	I need to answer it.
	You don't answer.
	You literally just machine gun vomit out of your mouth for like minutes on end.
	And all you do is interrupt constantly, make loud amusing noises.
	Start arguments over the dumbest shit that's not even relevant to the exception.
	I'm allowed.
	You don't argue over words.
	I'm allowed to do that.
	You spent two hours yesterday arguing over words.
	In fact, in your own stupid definition of feminism.
	I'm pretty sure you asked me to debate you.
	So if this is a problem for you, that's fine, but you agreed to these engagements.
	If you don't want to debate me in the future, you don't have to, but you asked me.
	You reached out to me.
	You don't know.
	And why did you reach out in the first place?
	Why did you ask for Brian to host us?
	Why does it matter if I reached out to you?
	Because you're going to debate.
	You have to.
	Clearly, you want to debate me, which means that you've agreed to some level of debate.
	Well, you're the exception.
	The issue is that, again, if you enjoyed it, they debate.
	You know, one thing that's pretty telling is that she hasn't insulted you at all once.
	And you've said four times.
	Well, I'm just saying you're talking to people.
	We got insults.
	No, you're talking about yourself like you're like this master debater, like a master debater, so to speak.
	That was a clever turnover.
	Can you explain it?
	What does that mean?
	So, what I'm trying to say is that, like, you're acting like you're like this exalted debater in comparison to her, that you're the grown man and she's the child.
	That's because it's true.
	It's not true.
	She's over 18.
	So, I'm saying that I'm the master debater.
	Jay, but you're not other people's spot.
	I don't know, but then you're calling her an idiot.
	She's not an idiot.
	She's not an idiot.
	It doesn't make sense to you.
	No, no, no.
	It makes sense to me.
	It doesn't make sense to the other person.
	It makes sense, not to you.
	Yesterday, it makes sense to about 100,000.
	I'm pretty sure after the show.
	I mean, who cares?
	She's not talking to them.
	She's talking to you.
	No, we are talking to that man.
	After the show, Brian explicitly asked you to do a lot less of this behavior.
	He explicitly asked you to do this because it was taking away from the quality of your content.
	This is just a conversation that we're talking about.
	Taking away from what?
	It was quality of the content.
	It was like a look.
	No, here's what I said to Jay.
	I said, look, tomorrow, you're a debater, right?
	You're a debater.
	We're bringing on a panel of guests who are not debaters.
	And I was like, they don't know how, they're not debaters.
	They're just here to have conversation.
	And I was like, I was letting Jay know, you know, maybe we don't do certain, you know, debate stuff to the non-debaters.
	Interrupting all the time.
	But you're the debater.
	You're the debater.
	You did not make an exceptional rule that they could be just as obnoxious like this with me, but not with everyone else.
	And you and I both know that, Brian.
	You don't think you're obnoxious?
	I didn't say that I'm not obnoxious.
	You guys are being obnoxious.
	As the host, as the moderator, I would personally, although I find it a bit amusing, you know, the insults and whatnot.
	And it'd be nice if you guys did insult each other.
	You know what, Jay?
	Can you say one nice thing about Kyla?
	And then, Kyla, say one nice thing about Jay.
	You know, maybe.
	We're not acting like this is an equal engagement of problems.
	Okay, then, Jay, do you want to say something that I also think that you think she's obnoxious because she's not submitting to you?
	We had a whole debate for it.
	He was mad because after the debate, we were like having a good conversation.
	And I told him I was disciplined.
	You don't submit.
	Kyla's not submitting to you.
	I think he's mad because yesterday after the debate I did.
	I'm not mad.
	This is literally how you've been like sub-tweeting and retweeting me all day.
	I know that you're boosted Coyote time when I said a diarrhea joke.
	Leave it up.
	No, what?
	No, no, that was funny.
	That was before the debate right now.
	I made a diarrhea joke.
	Yeah, that was good.
	I bantered with you on the market.
	I made a joke about your relativism.
	That's it.
	The other clips are clips.
	They're not you.
	Sorry.
	Okay.
	Boosted coyote.
	To mute a microphone is $500 through streamlabs.com slash whatever if you want to mute a microphone.
	Just throwing it out there.
	All right.
	Here, while we moved on, and if time permitting, we can come back to the conversation a little bit later.
	There are, you know, we'll wait.
	We'll wait to get to the chats here in just a bit.
	I want to get through some more of the show notes here.
	Moving on to Hyacinth, did I say it right?
	Yeah.
	I said it right.
	Okay, good.
	In your show notes, you write, hold on, where is it?
	Okay.
	The craziest dating experience you've had with a guy was when you went out with a guy and you offered to pay your own tab and he was off and he was offended by the offer, even when you mentioned you weren't there for his money and you're only there for his time and appreciation, like reciprocity.
	But he felt that if he paid completely, you owed him part of you.
	That's your.
	That's your craziest dating experience.
	I don't.
	I haven't been out on a lot of dates.
	I'm quiet girl, I paint.
	All of my time is in the house.
	Okay, all right, you said that.
	Maybe the adverse effect effects.
	There has been times where i've taken men out on full-on dates and spent over a thousand dollars on them and they still seem to have want to tell me what to do or, like you know, like I don't know, it could be a little oppressive sometimes dating I don't.
	What do you mean oppressive?
	Um, there's always an expectation that you know.
	Even if you put in your part or a little bit more, then you still have to be submissive to a guy, even if you're it's a 50-50 relationship.
	In a dating relationship yeah, I think if the woman is paying a hundred percent, she should still be submissive, I agree even then, but at the same time, do I have to do?
	I owe my body for that?
	Oh, could you tilt your mic up just a little bit?
	We did some adjustments.
	Do I owe somebody my body for it?
	I don't think you owe your body to anybody really but uh, so wait, the question is, do you owe so even if I do pay a hundred percent and I still want to be submissive?
	Why does it come down to?
	Like it's sharing, like they want to take a piece of me?
	Well, I mean, you should only engage in a sexual relationship if you want to engage in bodies.
	What's that?
	That's why I only I don't have a lot of bodies, you don't have a lot of bodies.
	Okay, got it.
	Well Brian, i'm just gonna like just uh uh, a little bit.
	Um like okay, let me hijack it so for a sec.
	Um honestly, any woman that spends like maybe a thousand dollars on a man, basically pays a hundred percent for the date, is not dating a traditional man.
	No traditional man would ever allow a woman to spend that much on him.
	So why submit to a traditional man?
	Traditional men say they want a traditional woman but refuse to be traditional men.
	You can't have your cake and eat it too.
	So i'm saying, why submit to a man who doesn't even seem like he plays by the rules that he set forth?
	Oh sure, i'm bantering a little bit as it comes to like the woman should pay a hundred percent but um, I mean sorry, you're pulling double.
	I get it.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	But yeah, I actually probably don't disagree with you necessarily.
	If a guy is desirous of a traditional dynamic, he should probably take on the traditional expectations on his own end.
	I agree.
	Don't totally disagree there.
	But moving on to the notes here, let's see.
	You said someone who only sees you as an object, you don't ask this out of spider malice.
	You generally would like to know the point of view on the subject.
	So do you experience that a lot that men see you as an object?
	Every day.
	Every day.
	My appearance is a completely different outlook on who I am on the inside.
	I'm a soft girl.
	I'm a very soft girl.
	Soft?
	What does that mean?
	What is soft girl?
	I'm a romantic type.
	Like, I like run around.
	I'm like, oh my God, look at the butterflies and stuff like that.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	I'm very crazy.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Cute.
	Do you objectify yourself?
	I try not to.
	Why did you look down at your?
	I know, because that's like.
	Do you have any plastic surgery?
	I do.
	What do you have?
	I just have this.
	Just the no BBL or anything like that?
	And what about like Botox or filler?
	You have lip filler?
	You can see it.
	What?
	The lips, though.
	You got lip filler.
	No, I don't.
	Actually, I went in to go get lip fillers, and the girl was like, Have you done it before?
	And I was like, No.
	She like grabbed my lips super hard.
	Can you turn your head that way?
	I just have good genes.
	Wait.
	You could touch them if you want.
	I don't want to touch them, but wait, just turn your head.
	Are you sure you don't have lip filler?
	I promise you.
	Well, that's very nice, though.
	Thank you.
	What's the verdict?
	You never asked me that, Brian.
	If you have lip filler?
	No, I've.
	Do you have perfectly balanced lips for your face?
	You're a fucking liar.
	Oh, sorry.
	Okay.
	Anybody else have any plastic surgery at the table?
	Oh, what do you have?
	I got boobs and lips.
	You got like titties.
	They're fake?
	Yeah.
	Oh, okay, cool.
	Anything?
	No, no.
	I have Botox.
	And this is just a push-up raw.
	Okay.
	I swear.
	No, no plastic surgery.
	Watch my videos.
	They bounce.
	I'm serious, no.
	I'm not lying.
	I swear.
	I don't have money like that.
	I'm a brokey.
	People can have nice titties without paying for it.
	I'm done.
	But also, I'm an EMT, like with what money.
	Your boobs are real?
	Yes.
	I'm a brokey.
	Okay.
	Oh, my God.
	Okay.
	Moving forward.
	Why do you not believe her?
	Can you play the pink pen?
	Like, do you think her tits are just too good to be real?
	No, the thing is, it's a compliment at that point.
	Well, thank you.
	I think you can.
	I have fake titty radar.
	I can tell.
	But you were surprised by me.
	Well, you can't do that.
	You cover up a little bit, okay?
	You balked up.
	I'm wearing a bunch of people.
	You said you balked up.
	You bulked up.
	You said you balked up yesterday.
	Wait, when did you get the fake titties?
	Like a year ago, before the bulk.
	Was it after your last appearance?
	Oh, God.
	So you were on in like.
	It was in June that I got them, like a year ago.
	It's been like a full year.
	2024?
	Yeah.
	Okay, so that was after yourself.
	It must have been.
	Yeah.
	See, so you must have.
	I got bamboozled a little bit.
	Well, when I'm on birth control, they're about the same size.
	Yeah, I don't take birth control anymore, so it fucks with my health, like in every way.
	So you're saying your boob size is the same.
	It's about the same, which is maybe why you didn't notice the difference.
	Yeah.
	Also, I try to look people in the eyes.
	I try to look at it.
	That's true.
	You're a respectful lad, Brian.
	I try not to look at the titties, even if they're gigantic.
	I'm a gentleman, so I appreciate that, Brian.
	Really, though?
	I'm being serious.
	And by serious, you mean you're lying?
	I'm a certified brokey.
	I'm an EMT.
	That's like asking, like, probably, it's like if I was a teacher.
	Like, teachers are underpaid is what I'm trying to get at.
	Okay, anyways, and plastic surgery?
	No.
	All right.
	Good, good talk.
	I don't know how we got there.
	Oh, objectification.
	Yeah, doesn't you get that?
	Who of the women here at the table feel like they've been they are or have been objectified?
	And the men can also raise their hands.
	I think it's good.
	I don't care.
	You're in favor of objectification.
	We always objectify.
	I've been objectified.
	Yeah, everyone objectifies.
	It's just when you remove it.
	I'm sure Jay here gets it all the time.
	Sandy guy has got a good head of hair.
	Especially for 40.
	That's incredible.
	Something nice.
	I said something nice about you yesterday.
	I'm not interested in being like nasty all the time.
	Okay.
	Jim Bob, do you get objectifying your hands?
	I just.
	No, I mean, isn't making fun of people objectifying them?
	Because people think objectify, they look at it and it's like, I want that.
	Usually it's always a good thing.
	But are you being objectified if you make fun of someone's body?
	Kind.
	Yeah, so.
	Yeah, people make fun of me.
	So you're right.
	It was a joke, right?
	Okay.
	Good times.
	Okay.
	So let me get into the rest of the notes then.
	We have, I think that's it for, it's Hyacinth?
	Okay, I just wanted to make sure I got it right.
	Okay.
	Let's get to Kelly Vargas.
	Kelly here, Kelly.
	You have your pronouns in your bio.
	You're a she-her.
	Yes.
	Okay, just wanted to double check.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	You're at a music festival at the Rose Bowl with this new guy you were seeing in Los Angeles.
	He was a total blast, great energy, and you were definitely feeling it on something fun.
	Can take that.
	Oh, okay.
	You guys were dancing fully in the moment, and suddenly you hear a name.
	You turn around, and no joke, it's your ex from New York, who you hadn't seen in years.
	He walks up and stands right next to your current date, and they looked very similar, like it was actually trippy.
	Apparently, I really do have a type.
	What's your type?
	That's a great question.
	I would say usually tall, tan, Italian-looking, physical, and then personality-wise, like a hot mess.
	Italian?
	Wait, personality hot mess.
	Yeah.
	But Italian-looking.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Jim Bob's Italian.
	Is he my hot mouse?
	Is he your type?
	If he was single.
	Respectfully, no.
	I'm sorry, Jim Bob.
	I'm sorry.
	Okay.
	So Italian and just a fucked up personality or a mess.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So what does that mean?
	Like you date like criminals or what do we do?
	No, no.
	I don't think that far.
	I think more of like they just are very type B, similar to how I am.
	Disorganized.
	Maybe they make like awful decisions, but not like to the point of like criminal.
	Like, no.
	I see.
	Okay, cool.
	You said the other time you were in Costa Rica, excuse me.
	You solo traveled there for New York, New Year's Eve.
	You matched with a local surfer on Tinder.
	Was it this her ex-boyfriend?
	I don't know.
	That could have been really, really, really possible.
	He cheated on me in Costa Rica.
	And he claimed to be a surfer, right?
	So it turned into a movie, you say, you guys swam, partied, you rode his motorcycle through the jungle roads, and you basically fell into a three-day whirlwind romance, pure passion, no plans, and zero regrets.
	Did you have a giant underbite?
	No.
	I was genuinely thinking it could be that.
	It might have been him, yeah.
	And so, okay, that was your Costa Rica thing.
	That's cool.
	Was there any like specific thing with him that you wanted to share on or just?
	No, I just think it was alludes to the idea of like, I don't really am so pressured with society, like in the idea of like having to have a long-term relationship, feel like I have to submit to a man constantly.
	Like, I kind of just go with the flow.
	I'm very free-spirited.
	If I like somebody, I like them.
	If I don't, I don't.
	Same with them.
	I know a lot of people are like, oh, it's kind of weird if you're not like in a long-term relationship.
	You're just like in like, you know, little flings here and there.
	But I think that's the fun part of being like living is just to be in the moment.
	And if it comes with a fling, why not?
	And do you travel a lot?
	Yeah, I do.
	And when you travel, do you find yourself in these temporary romances or whatever?
	I don't look for it, like, per se, like, that's my top priority.
	But if it happens, it happens.
	Okay, got it.
	You wanted to talk about baby mama and baby mama, baby daddy culture?
	But you don't have kids, right?
	No, I do not.
	Okay.
	Do you, what specifically did you want to talk about that?
	I just feel like personally, in my opinion, it's really shoved down in the pop culture.
	Like, it's very normalized to have a child without being in marriage.
	So I would say, like, I'm more traditional in the sense of, like, I think if you're going to raise a family, I would want you to be or myself to be in a committed marriage.
	Like, why would I want to have children with just anybody and not be in a marriage?
	That I definitely am feel like I'm more traditional, I would say.
	And I guess also that comes to the idea of like, I'm very liberal.
	Like I said, I'm like free-spirited, but there are certain aspects to myself that I do think in traditional, traditional, sorry, traditionalism is important.
	Wait, just some points of clarification here.
	You just said you're a bit more, you're liberal?
	I would say, like, there's a lot of liberal ideas that I have, but I definitely lean more towards the middle left.
	Okay, middle left.
	But you said, and in your notes here, you also wrote, you're very old school and traditional when it comes to that.
	Comes to dating?
	Just having children outside of marriage.
	I don't understand.
	Oh, okay.
	Just having kids out of marriage.
	Can you be, when it comes to you, and this is what you wrote, you said you're very old school and traditional.
	Can you be, I guess, specific and give detail?
	How are you old school and traditional?
	When it comes to marriage, I think if you want to be married, like that's, to me, marriage is traditional.
	Like, you want to have children, you want to build a family.
	To me, that just seems reasonable.
	That seems like the best way to raise a family.
	To have children outside of a marriage, I think it's like so shoved down our pop culture ideas that like we should have, women should be able to do whatever they want.
	They can have kids outside of marriage.
	It's fine.
	I don't think that, to me personally, that's just not really in my opinion.
	So that's your view when it comes to having children outside of marriage, your desire.
	I assume you want to get married?
	Yes, but I don't, that's not my priority.
	What's your priority?
	My career.
	Okay, gotcha.
	And you're, remind me, you're 28.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Go ahead.
	How could you expect the traditional element if you're not preparing yourself to be in that situation?
	I don't think I'm ready to be a mother or a wife quite yet.
	I haven't found the right person.
	And the last thing I would want to do is get into an awful unrealistic marriage that leads to divorce and to have children just because I felt pressured to have children.
	But if you're not preparing yourself for that type of lifestyle, do you think that you'll just suddenly turn traditional when you're ready to get married?
	No, I think there's a lot of healing that I need to do within myself.
	I would want to raise a great family.
	I want to have kids, like maybe in the future, but I don't, in a good mindset and a healthy lifestyle.
	And I am still traditional.
	I'd like not just talking about myself.
	I think women should and men should be in committed relationships to have children, not just talking about myself.
	I'm just talking about in general.
	When you said, I haven't found the right person, doesn't that imply that the right person is already traditional?
	I wouldn't say so.
	I'm sorry, can you clarify?
	So you're like, I don't want to get married yet.
	I don't think I found the right person.
	Just that part of it.
	Wouldn't the right person assume that he's already traditional and wants to have kids?
	I hope so.
	If he's, I would also love that they didn't feel pressured to have a family.
	And maybe if it happens, it happens.
	If it doesn't, it doesn't.
	It doesn't, it shouldn't be like a pressure of like, I want kids and you need to provide me kids.
	But if it happens, that's an amazing life.
	The reason I ask that is because, like, I don't understand this.
	Like, women, they want to find the right guy, right?
	Like a high-value man, they call it, fits all these criterias.
	When you find that man, why are you fine?
	What do you do with that man, right?
	If your current view of dating is simply just to like have fun, it's like I always ask these people, same thing.
	It goes back on the men, too.
	They want to find the right woman.
	And I always ask, why?
	Then what do you do?
	Because the only answer to me that makes any sense is to marry and potentially have a family to build something.
	So I'm wondering what all this dating is if ultimately both the men and the women are looking for the right man, right?
	But for what?
	Or the man is looking for the right woman?
	For what?
	Like, if it's not for marriage, I'm not sure.
	What is it?
	Like a temporary chapter in life, you know?
	Yeah, I think people come and go in your life.
	In my honest opinion, I'm very spiritual.
	I think people don't just come to your life for no reason.
	There's always something that they provide for you.
	So even if they're not in a marriage or end up in a long-term relationship, I learn something from them.
	I'm not always out here like, he's the one, he's the one.
	Is he going to be the one?
	No.
	I mean, if it is, that's great.
	I take a lot of accountability that I am a hot mess myself when it comes to dating, which is why I don't attract the best kind of individuals when I date.
	But that's what I like back to what Jay said, and this is pretty much for everyone, is that if in the future you see, especially as a woman, women, because you guys have a time constraint, if you see in the future that you'll probably want to be married, you actually have to start that traditional practice of being that woman before you actually find the husband.
	That's why I asked, wouldn't the husband, wouldn't the future husband already have the mindset of being traditional, like finding you and be like, cool, let's do this.
	But if you're not already living that, that's why Jay asked, what do you suddenly wake up when you find the right man and suddenly you're traditional?
	Like, that's.
	I see what you're saying.
	No, definitely having direction.
	I see what you're saying.
	I think, yes, the person that I would want to end up should be looking for marriage.
	I just don't like being pressured into things.
	So if I'm in a first date and he's like, I want to get married, that'd freak me out.
	I'd be like, I don't even know who you are.
	This is a first date.
	I would rather talk about this later on in life.
	I think we're not saying you should rush into marriage, but rather that when you're married, it's a different lifestyle and it's not, it doesn't change when you're married.
	Like you have to be prepared for marriage.
	So you have to begin preparing before, not that you have to rush into marriage, is what I'm saying.
	So in other words, you need to give up the liberal centrism if you want a traditional guy.
	No traditional guy wants a liberal girl.
	Because let me give you an example at a friend who dated a liberal girl back when we were in our 20s and he wanted to marry her.
	I said it's not a good idea.
	He got her pregnant.
	She aborted the baby and then took off.
	And I think because he saw that because she had this attitude of not being traditional, that she was not going to make a good wife.
	She ran off, did not what he wanted, right?
	So if you want to, like what you put out is what you attract, is what I'm trying to say.
	Can you be more specific in like the liberal definition of the world?
	I mean, you describe yourself as a central, a left of center, I think is what you said, something like that.
	Yeah.
	But I mean, like, if I'm a guy and I'm out there and I, let's say for the sake of argument, I'm a high-value male.
	Maybe I'm not, but let's say that if I am.
	Like, if I was a traditional-minded guy and I wanted a wife, like, I'm going to be looking for the qualities already there, not like, can I make her into a traditional woman when we get married?
	I'm going to look for the qualities already being there.
	Isn't that a lot of pressure for someone, though?
	Don't you think, like, everyone's in their own journey in creating the best version of themselves.
	Not everyone's going to be perfect and ready for anything in life.
	What do you mean by traditional man?
	Like, when you describe a traditional man, what are you looking for?
	Because you got to make sure that the net, like what they're, I think what they're saying is, if you want to attract a certain type of fish, you got to use the right type of lure.
	Right?
	And so when you say, what's the fish you're trying to attract?
	Somebody, for me, there's traditionalism, but also open-mindedness, like being able to, marriage is great.
	That's traditional, yes, but being able to also have different ideas of pathways in life and not being so, what's the word?
	So single-minded and thinking like, this is the only path in life.
	Like this.
	Hold on.
	That's like traditional pluralism, though.
	So like, is there any tradition you can point to that has survived the test of time that didn't hold to a fairly narrow approach to what it is?
	Sounds like you're saying traditionalism kind of looks a certain way, like the structure looks a certain way, but ultimately, what's the tradition that's being carried through?
	Is there any structure of the family or does it just look like a family on TV?
	You know what I mean?
	Like a tradition itself in every sense of the word comes from a long lineage of people that hold it together and keep it, safeguard it, protect it, keep it rigorous.
	So it sounds like Kyla's asking is like, well, what is that?
	It sounds like it's a type, it's like an image of it, but it's not the practice of it.
	Like, do you want him to be the breadwinner?
	Do you want him to make more income than you?
	I think that's a good question.
	I think if they are the breadwinner, that's great.
	They don't have to be.
	Like, I would love to make my own income as well.
	Should he pay for dates?
	Should he be the one paying for dates?
	Hopefully, yes.
	Would it be an ick, be honest?
	Would it be an ick if he didn't?
	I would say yes.
	Okay, so you want a guy who's paying for the date.
	You're open to economically being on the same level.
	So if you were dating somebody for a while and he was making like 30K less a year than you for a while, would that be okay with you?
	Like, is that, say he's going to school?
	Is that okay with you if you're the one making the money at the time and he's going to school?
	I don't think currently where I'm at right now, that it's not a priority, but I think it would definitely be something that would make me want not to be with them.
	Gotcha.
	Okay.
	So like you're kind of wanting some traditional gender roles, like he's being at least the breadwinner mostly throughout the relationship, or at least on parity.
	You want him to pay for that and stuff like that.
	Okay, gotcha.
	I just wanted to understand what you're saying.
	What if he fits all of the checks for traditionalism that you are looking for?
	Okay.
	And the only thing he's looking for is you, in addition to your, you know, compatibility.
	But the most important thing on his list is that you mother his children.
	That's the only thing in return he's expecting.
	Is the expectation that Kyla just asked of you?
	Like, you have an expectation, right?
	Okay.
	But if his expectation is that, is that an equal exchange?
	I honestly, I don't think so.
	Having a kid is so like life-altering to your body, physical, mental, to a woman.
	That that just seems to me in like the most simplest terms, I'm giving away my life, to be honest.
	So a lot of the times it has to be the right person, and it has to be like when I feel like it's right.
	And right now I don't.
	Well, yeah, the question wasn't like when it, of course, there's a when.
	Sometimes you don't know when.
	Sometimes you think it's not the right time, and it actually is.
	But I'm pointing to more like if you have a set of standards for the man, and let's say it is from every perspective looking at it, he matches all of this, all of the criteria.
	His criteria for you is to mother the child.
	I'm wondering, how do you know when you're at an equal exchange?
	Because now you just said, well, I want the man to be traditional.
	I want him to pay for things.
	I want him to lead the way.
	I want him to lead the family, protect me, whatever else you add in there.
	But it sounds like one of the most important things for that traditional man is going to be the thing that you're actually like, eh, whoa, whoa, whoa.
	And it seems like it's not an equal exchange because what is it thereafter ultimately, aside from that?
	You don't think it's an like, it's fair to say to have a child is like not comp, I wouldn't compare it to me saying like, provide for a date to be able to pay a bill.
	Like, I don't think that's the same as having a home.
	Oh, no, I agree.
	I'm not talking about this single instance.
	We're looking at sort of obligation from his perspective.
	That's the kind of man he is.
	So that'll follow through with protecting you, you know, providing making the home, like protecting the home, everything and fulfill it sounds like your liberalism still kicking in and you're like, well, I want to fly to Tahiti, right?
	And that's, you're going to live your life.
	And that's why Jayo's asking, well, what is it you're grabbing from the traditional bin from the man?
	And what are you providing from the traditional bin from his perspective?
	If it's not children, what is it?
	I mean, what else would it be?
	Are you wanting to home make a lot for him?
	Like when you say providing children, do you just mean you don't want to give up your career for children?
	Yeah.
	I feel like having kids, like it's selfish to not center your life around them.
	Like that's a huge life decision.
	And right now I have so much on my plate, career, financial, just everything that I don't think it would be fair to have a kid right now or probably in a while.
	Yeah, I think that's fair.
	I think one of the things that I think when I look at relationships, there's like these different categories and boxes of percentages that we give, right?
	So there's like domestic, there's income, there's emotional, and then there's also like child-rearing parenting, right?
	And so like in my mind, these things don't have to be 50% the whole way across, right?
	But they need to be exchangeable in a way where both partners look at them.
	So say, for example, if the husband is expected to give like 70% of the income and you work like part-time or three-quarters of the time, I'm not sure what your workload is.
	Or maybe you give 60% of the income.
	That means other areas have to flex to kind of accommodate that, right?
	And so I think the important question that men have to ask when they're going into a relationship is going like, well, what am I offering and what are the type of women that I'm interested in looking for?
	And as a woman, you have to go, well, what am I willing to offer?
	And which men are interested in looking for those things, right?
	Because I would agree, most like more conservative, super trad men, they don't really, they're not as interested in like the woman's income.
	Most trad men are pretty open to being like 60 to 70% of the income.
	But what they look for in exchange would be like higher domestic labor.
	So like they do the income labor, woman does maybe higher domestic labor.
	If she's still working, it has to be back and forth.
	I don't even think liberal men care about women's income.
	Well, I would just disagree in the economy.
	Like the reality is very few men can provide for a family on one economy.
	Some men are like super blessed.
	What I'm saying is, though, I understand the arguments of like, okay, economically speaking, you need a two-income household.
	That's just the economic reality for most couples.
	What I'm saying is, is that men, it's not going to make men more attracted to women.
	They'll do it out of economic necessity, but not like, oh, she's a high earner.
	I'm more attracted to her.
	It could be like a nice positive, for example, for a liberal guy, but I don't even think liberal men are going to be like, oh, she's more attractive because she's a high earner.
	I agree.
	What I'm talking about is once you're in the relationship, these exchanges are going on.
	I think it's a disservice.
	So what happens when I listen to feminists and like man spheres fight with each other is women really ignore the income labor that men often do.
	They're just kind of like, it's like a self-assumed thing that men are bringing to the table.
	And then men will often ignore as well the economic labor that women are bringing in, which is why I've listed multiple facets.
	Because I agree, men aren't like looking at women who are making like a hundred grand and being like, ooh, baby, right?
	They're being like, damn, she's hot, right?
	And like, she makes me feel good when I'm with her.
	That's more or less what most people are doing.
	But once you get into the relationship, part of the exchange, if we're all being honest with each other, has to be like who's bringing the income, where, and how much, and how do we balance out the other areas?
	And most people say the man should be bringing in higher income.
	And so, and typically, one of the partners is also doing higher emotional labor to like make the relationship work.
	So then the domestic.
	What is emotional labor?
	It depends on the couple, right?
	So, say, for example, you've got one partner that comes in with like a lot of emotional baggage.
	Sure.
	So let's use, I'm going to use a man for, I'll use a woman for an example first because I think people would find that more appealing, and then I can use a man.
	For a woman, maybe she had a messy childhood.
	So she's a little bit anxious.
	She's more depressed.
	So she needs to be comforted more often.
	She's not a little bit more distracted.
	Or you could just not date her.
	That's also an option.
	Yeah, but that's not what we're talking.
	We're talking about what would be the emotional labor.
	In the case of a man having lots of baggage, he might have lots of anger issues.
	He might kind of stow wall and not communicate, right?
	So then the woman might have higher emotional labor to make the relationship work because you have to be able to talk to each other and emotionally relate to one another.
	Jade, it sounds like you may be wanting to.
	Do you do the emotional baggage in y'all's relationship?
	I'm just curious.
	Like are you the one that covers the emotional baggage?
	I would say my husband is much more emotionally solid than I am.
	I definitely have a lot more baggage from my childhood.
	I'm curious.
	I want to ask, if you don't mind, would you rather be in a situation where if you had an option of a dude who you liked and he made a lot of money, would you choose that if you had to be a homemaker versus your own career and out there having to do your own thing and all that?
	Which would you prefer?
	Naturally, I am very submissive and I already do those things for fun.
	I like have fun cleaning and cooking.
	So it's something that I, but I don't look traditional, so it's.
	But if you had a choice, which one would you prefer?
	I would go with letting the man lead me and with the money, you know, and I would take on the responsibility of cleaning and cooking for the home and having the baby.
	So that would be a better life for you than like trying to fend for yourself in LA.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	Would you prefer that or not?
	What, being like barefoot and pregnant and taken care of?
	If the option of a guy who has a lot of money that you like, you generally are like, he's not a butthole, right?
	Or like you're a career woman doing your own thing and you have like a person that meets you halfway, which would you prefer?
	Can I just use my relationship?
	Because that's obviously who I picked.
	When I got into the relationship, my husband hadn't graduated high school, didn't have a job.
	I was already high-income earning and had the greatest income prospects.
	But for me, I learned pretty early to really deprior prioritize like surface stuff.
	I really wanted a man of character.
	Like that was the most important thing to me, is a man of high integrity and character, which I would say, I got like Nick's genuinely amazing, amazing person.
	So for me, but I'm not saying that that's the typical woman experience.
	I recognized that I was very career motivated.
	And so in my mind, I did a mental calculus of going, that means I need to scale back the money expectations because he's got to make a lot of trade-offs that aren't traditional from me.
	So I can't ask for the same traditional exchange.
	I did that when I was like 22.
	I just made that mental swap.
	Most women probably don't want to do that.
	I wanted to ask, go back to you for a second.
	You hold, you lean more traditional, more submissive, but your appearances might throw people off.
	So when you are searching for a man, what else are you going to have to do, do you think, to attract, because you might attract the not that, right?
	I mean, is it fair to say you might attract not that?
	Yes, it is fair to say that.
	But when I date, I kind of go off of the first approach, like how they treat me.
	And, you know, I don't really have a specific thing that I look for.
	I mean, I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?
	It was like you lean more into traditionalism submissive, so that it might be the case that the man you're actually looking for is actually traditional.
	But if your appearance can throw people off, I was wondering what do you do to find the traditional if the appearance might throw them off?
	But I don't necessarily look for what a man can offer me.
	It's compatibility.
	You know, like, how does he make me feel?
	If he has all that stuff, that's great.
	That's fine.
	But if it's a struggle together, that's what we have to do.
	Does that make sense?
	What would you choose?
	Oh, like the barefoot and pregnant or well, it's not just barefoot and pregnant.
	It's also the guy that you like who has stable income, good money, right?
	Versus like you're on your own trying to defend for yourself, and then you find a guy that meets you halfway or something like that.
	Yeah, no, like 100%.
	I would rather be at home taking care of kids, doing my thing there.
	I do not want to work at all.
	That's not my thing.
	What about you?
	No, I like working for myself.
	Okay.
	I'd like us to have like both our separate careers, honestly.
	I don't know.
	I love my career so much, I would never give it up.
	Okay.
	Wait, you never give up your career?
	Question.
	But so going back to this, you said you're old school, you're traditional.
	Would you be submissive to your husband?
	What's submission to you?
	Bowing.
	By the way, Brian, sorry to interrupt.
	When I went home last week, my entire family bowed to me when I woke, when I walked in the door.
	Even the wife?
	Everybody.
	Did you like it?
	Yeah, it was awesome.
	Yeah, see, it's good.
	Basically.
	I think that's a joke.
	No, it's an actual.
	Yeah.
	They did it.
	Well, it's like a meme.
	They did it as a meme, but it was just funny.
	Mormons have an oath of perfect obedience.
	I'm just curious, though, because I know it's different for everyone.
	Submission.
	Yeah, willful cooperation.
	I was making a Mormon.
	Yeah, I know, I know.
	I mean, basically, just deferring to his leadership, willful cooperation.
	So, yeah, deferring to his leadership.
	Now, for example, like, I don't think submission is this.
	Your husband says, jump off a bridge, and then you jump off a bridge.
	That's not, you would not be in contravention of being submissive if you're like, no, I'm not going to jump off a bridge.
	Or if your husband said, okay, sell these drugs or be a prostitute.
	I would never be able to do that.
	That wouldn't be.
	What's that?
	I would never be around someone like that.
	But let me ask you this.
	Your husband says, well, let's say it's your boyfriend.
	Your boyfriend says, when we get married, you're taking my last name.
	Well, first off, let me ask, would you take your husband's last name?
	No.
	What about?
	Ah, okay, now we're getting somewhere.
	So you wouldn't take his last name?
	No.
	Under, just to be clear, you want to get married, though, right?
	Eventually, yes.
	Question for you.
	If it's the perfect guy, he's the perfect guy.
	Most of us won't get the perfect partner ever.
	Would you take his last name then?
	I still think that's a no.
	So, question for you: would you hyphenate?
	Are you going to hyphenate or are you going to keep it?
	I'd be open to it.
	That sounds like a compromise.
	I'd be open.
	What if he's a billionaire?
	I know.
	But he could help your career.
	What if you, bro?
	Would you take you wouldn't take any man's name?
	Well, I just said I would be open to hyphenating.
	Can I ask you to?
	What about your father's last name?
	Well, that was by that.
	Let me ask you a question on a couple questions on this.
	So you said you're old school and traditional.
	In certain aspects, not all.
	Oh, okay.
	So you're picking and choosing.
	It's like it's a buffet.
	You get to pick and choose.
	Oh, I like this.
	Don't like that.
	Well, okay, there's some criticisms there.
	But so, okay, you're picking and choosing.
	So what do you consider traditional or modern?
	Hyphenation?
	Or like, how do you categorize these?
	Hyphenation?
	That would definitely be what's traditional?
	That would be definitely like if I was to not take his last name, that's not traditional.
	I can agree with that.
	Okay, cool.
	How about this?
	I'm trying to think of another example here.
	Would it be icky if he demanded to take your last name?
	He just demanded it.
	I would say, yeah, because that's just why do I have to do something out of demanding?
	A couple questions for you.
	Do you want guys to pay for?
	I might have been gone when you guys talked about this.
	You want a guy to pay for first dates?
	They don't have to, but if they do, that's a great look.
	It's a plus.
	Do you want a guy who's a protector?
	Yeah.
	You want a guy who's a provider?
	Yes, if you can.
	You want a guy who's a leader?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	When it comes to the protection component, would you have an expectation, even on the first date or deeper into the relationship, that if you guys are walking along the sidewalk, that the guy is walking closer to the road where the cars are?
	That's being a protector.
	Protector.
	And would you expect this on the first date?
	I would notice if he doesn't.
	Okay, but it would be something you'd want in a relationship.
	Yeah, of course.
	And then you'd want him to protect you in other circumstances.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So just to be clear, you want old school.
	Do you want the guy to be old school and traditional in all the ways that men are typically old school and traditional?
	I guess so.
	Well, in the way that benefits him, total double standards.
	In the ways that benefits him.
	Right.
	And so just to be clear, though, so you want a guy to essentially be willing to die for you, but you won't take his last name?
	I think die for me, that's like, I never said that.
	But isn't that protecting you?
	Isn't that the even the walking closer to the where the cars are in the road?
	Isn't that an entailment of that very thing?
	Is he's willing to essentially put his life at risk to the point of death to protect him?
	That's a valid question.
	I see your point of view, but I think at the end of the day, I would want to be with someone who would, if I said no to them and then I explained why, they would be understanding.
	So you want to have the conversation.
	Like you want to have a conversation with the guy.
	You want to explain to him why, despite him being traditional and old school, why he needs to accept your modernity?
	Yes.
	Okay, cool.
	So what if he wants to start having conversations with you about his traditional gender expectations?
	For example, babe, I want to have a conversation about who's going to pay.
	And it sounds like you're okay with that one.
	So, but he wants to have a conversation of, you know, I'd actually prefer if you walked closer to the road so that you could conceivably get run over by a guy.
	Because he's modern.
	He's a modern guy.
	To me, that, no, I would not.
	You wouldn't like that.
	Okay.
	I would.
	Okay.
	So you want an Italian hot mess that doesn't want you to take his last name, but it's traditional in all the ways that you want.
	Okay.
	So what does the traditional old school guy get?
	What do you mean get?
	Well, so if we're going to lay out some of the things.
	You're going to have access to a pop store.
	Oh, access to Rising Pop Star is what they're doing.
	So if we lay out the things that you want, so you want an old school traditional guy, so the entailment there is going to be protecting and providing you.
	I think being willing to and potentially dying for somebody, that seems like a pretty.
	Is what you're saying.
	Like, what do they get in return?
	Yeah, what do they get that specifically you would be bringing?
	Okay.
	I provide, I guess, the term submission.
	Like, I do love to be feminine.
	I do love to take care of people.
	Okay, nurturing, sure.
	Yeah, nurturing.
	I would say I love to cook.
	I'm a cooker, so I would provide that.
	Being able to.
	So if he told you to make a sandwich, you would do it.
	Oh, that's so rude.
	Like, like in a rude way.
	No, it was the most polite, charitable way one could do.
	People make a sandwich.
	Men who are like against feminism would always say, like, go make me a sandwich in the kitchen.
	Yes, I would say so.
	Okay.
	I would cook for the man, but if he's like immediately going into the relationship, expecting me to cook for him and being like, well, you have to build trust.
	You can't just come into a relationship.
	Wait, wait, wait, wait.
	Build trust on the first date.
	He's supposed to risk his life walking you on the sidewalk.
	He doesn't have to risk his life.
	It's nice if he would.
	It's nice if you made a sandwich.
	Nice if you died.
	Well, if he's saying to me, hey, go in the kitchen and make me a sandwich, that's like rude.
	I feel like that's what I'm saying.
	Okay, what if he was like, I think it's rude that he has to ask.
	I mean, in this exchange, right, like it would be rude if she said, walk on the sidewalk side for me, right?
	Like everyone would agree, like, damn, that's like fucking bitchy, right?
	I think we would all agree.
	That would be like a pretty bitch move.
	It'd also be really socially weird on a first date.
	I don't know, actually.
	Go make me a sandwich.
	I'd be like, you have no social skills.
	I don't know about this guy.
	I actually disagree with that.
	I think if a man was like not aware of it and the woman was like, what are you doing?
	Like, protect me.
	Like, I think a man would actually be responsive to that.
	Yeah, maybe.
	But in general, I think men are a lot better at rolling with like criticism than women often are.
	Yeah, I'll engage with that.
	So, I mean, okay, so you're saying the guy should just do it.
	Okay, so the woman should just make the sandwich.
	Just to be clear, I don't give a fuck.
	We shouldn't have to tell her to make the sandwich.
	She should just preemptively know to make the sandwich.
	Well, here's where I would argue with the feminist.
	Here's where I'd argue with the feminist.
	You're in favor of the sandwich.
	Yeah, okay.
	No, I would say if you have certain like traditional chivalrous expectations that would be an immediate ick if like not foreseen, and you don't give any grace in between, but you expect high levels of grace in return, you're creating a very losing situation for all men, which is shitty to do.
	It's a shitty thing to do.
	However, if you have mutual grace and discuss these things, so for example, there's lots of things that my husband will ask me to do all the time, and I'm happy to do it, right?
	He might just be like sitting down watching TV and be like, hey, can you go get me a drink?
	Yeah, of course I can, right?
	But part of the exchange is that when he's up, I can also ask him to do the same.
	But that's something that we've also seen.
	Did you take his last name?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I just want to point out that even the way in which we're discussing this is in a very particular way.
	It's purely individualistic.
	Whereas if we're really talking about tradition, it used to be the case that women and men were actually raised that this is just what you do.
	So you actually just do this sandwich making and you actually want to do it, right?
	Because it's part of a larger structure that's more valuable than your own individual preferences.
	Even as we discuss this, it's like, well, what's the contract?
	I think the important thing is to sit down and make a contract.
	And this is all modernity playing out.
	When we're talking about traditionalism, it's kind of a joke to ask anyone, you know, no offense, but asking you about traditionalism, you're just like, you're taking it like it's like you're at a salad bar and you're like, here's some cucumbers.
	And what the tradition, the traditional perspective is that the tradition is the entire room.
	It's not just salad.
	It's not the salad bar.
	And you're able to change.
	I think the issue that we have with modernity dating is that the room has changed, right?
	The problem with the banquet table is that now for the man to even be able to go to the table, this is going to break down immediately.
	I'll just say this.
	In the past, men could just work and make enough money for both of them and run the household.
	For most of the people.
	But then feminism happened.
	Well, and then all the women went into the work and then lowered the dollar.
	War happened and like, yeah, but if we didn't have women go into the workplace, our GDP would have never competed.
	And if we didn't shift away from the gold backing, the GDP is so fundamental for like everything when it comes to a nation state because if you don't have a competitive GDP, your enemies are able to stomp you.
	What is your nation if it's not bound in something bigger than the GDP?
	It's usually bound in some level of like civic nationality, which is going to be the bigger thing.
	You mean like duties?
	No, more like patriotism, like love for country, not duties.
	Yeah, but what's the identity of country?
	GDP up?
	No, it's like American.
	Why don't we swap the flag with GDP up?
	I know that you think this is good because it's like one of your memes, but nobody thinks this.
	GDP is important, if you don't understand, for being able to be competitive with your enemies so that they don't destroy you.
	When it comes to a relationship in what we're talking about, we have this issue where the economy is so different now that men can't bring to the table sole providership.
	By and large, some can, and those ones I think do get to make different concessions and negotiations on their relationship.
	But by and large, men have to say, I need you to come to the table for economic income too.
	And that necessarily means that women get to have more negotiation power for what the relationship looks like they want in return.
	And the problem with a lot of modern men in dating is that all they feel like they can bring is money because unfortunately, our society has attached a male's value to their dollar, their wallet, which I think is a tragedy.
	And I think it's bad when women do that to men.
	And I think it's bad when men.
	But you just said the GDP is like the key thing.
	Yeah, GDP is really important, but that doesn't mean that the part they're not.
	But then it's a tragedy that men's wallet matters.
	It's a contradiction relationship.
	It's not a contradiction at all to say that at a nation-state level, GDP is important to be competitive and not get destroyed by your enemies.
	But at an individual level, it's a tragedy.
	Why is it a tragedy?
	Because the only value in a relationship is the dollars that they're going to be.
	Look, let me make it clear.
	It should be more value of the character that they have.
	Because your value scale is arbitrary, as well.
	It's not arbitrary.
	It's also.
	It's worse.
	It's actually pretty bad is that at the individual level, it's a tragedy, but at the nation level, it's the ultimate value.
	Yes.
	Yours is arbitrary.
	And when you argued it with me, you said it was subjective and relative and what you believe is right.
	Relative doesn't mean arbitrary.
	These are not the same thing.
	These are not the same thing.
	You argued that it's not the same.
	And then you make an argument, it's arbitrary.
	That's not true at all.
	It is.
	It is.
	You don't know basic philosophy.
	Okay, we can go back to our debate.
	Presuppositionalism is whether relativism is a component.
	Did you answer the question before?
	I'm sorry, I'm so tired.
	You don't understand that.
	Presuppositionalism doesn't solve a critical dilemma any better than foundationalism.
	You've never had a philosophy class to even speak on.
	I know you're saying this, but you demonstrated.
	After watching your debate, I don't think you have a degree in philosophy because you know that presuppositionalism does not solve Agrippa's dilemma.
	It relies on dogmatism.
	Unfortunately, you offer coherentism as the solution to Agrippa's trilemma.
	You know, or you're not educated in it, you know that Agrippa's trilemma is not solved by presuppositionalism.
	It's not solved by anything.
	It is solved.
	It is not coherentism.
	It does not solve dogmatism.
	You don't even know that.
	You didn't know what coherentism was until yesterday.
	You just learned it yesterday.
	I don't have to know every single philosophical thing.
	If you're going to come to it as a baby, you should know what it is.
	You should probably know what equivocating means when you cited a grandparent.
	You did it because you used feminism two different ways.
	You cited it incorrectly.
	You said that it's making two things the same.
	It's not.
	You use the same word in a different way.
	Then why did you cite it incorrectly?
	I clipped you lying, don't you?
	To try to claim something against me, but it's an ad hominem from hypocrisy, which you cited in your life.
	When I was looking for confirmation bias, you cited gambler's dilemma.
	Gambler's dilemma has nothing to do with confirmation bias.
	It wasn't what I was looking for.
	Gambler's dilemma has everything to do with using past, post-hoc information to make predictions of the future.
	What does nothing to do with confirmation bias?
	So, what you do in your base is you cite a bunch of sounding words to feel impressive.
	You're not talking to anybody but you don't know what you're talking about.
	Hamster girls.
	And you rely on presuppositionalism.
	There's a hamster.
	There's dumped people who don't have like philosophical systems in the background.
	You're spitting the little blue balls out of your head.
	To this day, you haven't solved Agrippa's trilemma.
	And you're still.
	You don't even know what that is.
	It has to do with epistemology.
	I asked you what epistemology was.
	You didn't even know.
	I said Agrippa's.
	What's justified your belief?
	Tell me.
	Tell me.
	You don't know anything about these things.
	I can define it for you.
	It's infinite regression.
	I know what it's called.
	It's dogmatism.
	And it's circular race.
	It has everything to do with it because you're saying that relativism is arbitrary, but relativism has never been viewed as arbitrary ever.
	It's a philosophical relationship.
	What would it matter if everybody's out of foundation?
	It's an appeal to authority, you idiot.
	It's not an appeal to authority at all.
	If the fact that nobody believed that is an appeal to authority because moral relativism is a foundational belief.
	The reason why it's not solving Agrippa's trilemma is the same reason presuppositionalism doesn't solve Agrippa's tile.
	You don't understand all the time.
	You don't know what foundation is.
	The idea that you fundamentally cannot justify any action at the end of the day because everything must be circular and repeating what you're saying.
	Presuppositionalism tries to solve Agrippa's trilemma by presupposing something, but it replies on dogmatism.
	This only fools idiots who follow destiny when you just yap because you think your destiny is IQ average between destiny and your audience.
	Take a bet on it.
	Are you serious?
	The garbage person that you try to get the education level between my audience and yours is actually your education.
	Yeah, it maps onto IQ pretty well.
	Oh, really?
	Yep, it does.
	What, like in the Canadian system that you were educated in?
	Significantly better than you.
	So you didn't know what justified your work.
	Says who?
	I got the answers, man.
	Says who you are.
	Are you guys trying to destroy the Department of Education?
	What?
	Aren't you guys trying to destroy the Department of Education?
	So obviously the system sucks.
	If the system was working, then you wouldn't want to destroy it.
	I ain't drinking up.
	I don't believe the state.
	What the fuck did you say to me, you little shit?
	I wanted to ask you, Kyla.
	How are you not in fucking school?
	What's the meaning of that?
	One second.
	Brian's got to get through his sounds.
	You need to hit all of them.
	It's called You Kiss Your Mother With That Fucking Mouth.
	Huh?
	What's the meaningful.
	I'm sorry.
	This is so distraction.
	Why are you shut up when I'm talking to you?
	You shut your mouth.
	Is it stuck?
	Yeah, it's done.
	So long.
	What's the meaningful symmetry breaker between the tragedy of a man, his whole value, being essentially the GDP of the house, and the country having that it's a good thing?
	It's not a tragedy, that the GDP of the country is good.
	That's a good thing.
	But at the house level, which is a small country, it's a tragedy.
	What's the symmetry breaker that makes one good and one ecological fallacy, right?
	What's good at like that?
	What are you saying?
	You don't know what an ecological fallacy is?
	Look, I asked you the symmetry breaker.
	You saying fallacy fallacy.
	No, I'm answering with ecological fallacy.
	If you don't know what it is, that's okay.
	I can explain it to you.
	Oh, you're so condescending.
	I'm just answering that.
	It's being genuine.
	You don't have to know all words.
	I actually don't think it's bad if you don't know what it is.
	But my answer to your question is ecological fallacy.
	If you want me to explain ecological fallacy, I'm willing to do so.
	Cool.
	Can you do that after you answer my question?
	My answer to your question is an ecological fallacy.
	So you can't answer it.
	So you won't answer it because it's a question of fallacy?
	How's a question a fallacy?
	So the question is an ecological fallacy.
	Yes, questions can be fallacious.
	So, asking for a symmetry breaker, I want to know the meaningful distinction between the symmetry breaker is found in the ecological fallacy.
	Again, I can define it for you, or you can define it here.
	But if you want the answer, Agrippa's trilemma.
	What is that?
	What is Agrippa's?
	It's something that she heard Destiny talk about that she never heard Destiny talk about.
	And it has nothing to do with the thing that we're debating, but it's a way for her to deflect away when she gets cornered, and she does it in multiple debates.
	She did it in their first debate, too.
	But it doesn't fool anybody else in the audience.
	Do you want to ask me?
	That's why you can't tell me what subjectivism and relativism are and how your position justifies it.
	I can answer both of those things.
	You're the one who thought absolutism and objectivism are the same thing when they're not.
	So, words can mean the same thing in the culture.
	They don't mean the same thing in philosophy at all.
	Yes, they do.
	Do you want to answer his question on Agrippa's trilemma?
	Tell me how your position is true if it's arbitrary and if it's not arbitrary.
	How is subjectivism not arbitrary?
	I don't use subjectivism.
	You were talking about right now.
	Relativism is the same thing.
	No, it's not.
	Yes, it is.
	No, it's not.
	You're so stupid.
	It's the same thing.
	Okay, do you want to say that?
	Tell me how it's different.
	Relativism is looking at the scale at like a group of things and finding things relative to certain points.
	So, for example, relativism would answer the simple philosophical question: if a man steals bread, is it bad?
	Relativism would go, why is he stealing bread?
	If you find out that he's in like a super tyrannical country and he can't feed his children, most people would agree.
	That's moral relativism.
	There you go.
	And it's purely.
	Moral subjectivism would say, What I like to do is what is right.
	It is fully centered on I and the individual.
	Relativism looks at like the outer situation and who likes to do it.
	Utilitarianism is a great example of subjectivity.
	You don't understand grammar.
	If I say I'm a moral relativist, that's a subjectivist position.
	It's not.
	I'll draw it for you.
	Here, I can draw it for you.
	I am.
	Do you understand grammar?
	For those of you who are not familiar with the philosophy of the language, I'll explain it to the lady.
	Listen to me.
	You're talking about the body.
	And the x-axis would be absolutism.
	If I say I am.
	This is like talking to, she doesn't talk.
	So absolutism is like, do you guys know Kant?
	Have you guys ever heard of Kant?
	Hey, don't call people that.
	Sorry.
	Sorry.
	So Kant had this idea of absolutism, which is that when we come to universal laws, we should apply them to everyone equally and always.
	And the problem with absolutism is that it falls apart really quickly.
	And the only law that he could find that worked really well for absolutism in its old way is that he's a religious.
	Kant's a deontologist, Kant's a deontologist.
	It's not what you're talking about.
	Deontology can be absolutist.
	So when we're looking at the spectrum of absolutism to relativism, relativism would say stealing is bad, but it kind of depends on the situation.
	If I said I.
	So that's how we deal with relativism.
	So an example of relativism would be like utilitarianism.
	If I say I'm a moral relativist, is that my subjective state?
	Your statement?
	Is it my subjective state?
	I am a moral relativist.
	I don't even know what you're trying to ask here.
	It's a simple question.
	Well, the issue is that you're equivocating.
	I am a moral relativist.
	You're equivocating.
	Because you're using the word subjective, and in the next question, you're going to use subjective for a different person.
	So subjective would mean in this situation.
	You know what a word concept is.
	But then when I answer that question, what you'll do is you'll see subjectivism is a moral system.
	But this is very different from one another.
	Do you want to go into objectivism versus subjectivism?
	Maybe we can do it.
	Subjectivism.
	Objectivism is like platonic forms.
	Have you guys ever heard of Plato?
	Okay, Plato had this idea that essentially there were ideas that were true.
	So if we talk about justice...
	This is like blippy philosophy.
	You guys need it too, apparently.
	So when we talk about justice...
	Is that subjective or objective?
	Do you want to interrupt me or do you want to...
	Is that subjective?
	Is that what you're saying right now?
	Is that subjective or objective?
	Plato's Platonic form.
	No, you're accounting.
	He used it objectivism for his political.
	So what you're saying is your account of Plato, is it subjective or objective?
	Again, you're just doing an equivocation.
	You can't answer the question.
	That's not equivalent.
	There's no answer to your question.
	That's not an equivocal.
	All you're doing is being bad faith.
	You're pretending to ask a question that's looking to adhere to actual response.
	So, what you're actually doing is to equivocate the word afterwards so you can trick me.
	Do you want me to finish going through the why action?
	You don't know.
	No, no, no.
	You don't know what I'm talking about.
	I'm doing no problem.
	Interesting.
	Interesting.
	Philosophy King is over here about the past.
	Nobody wants you to keep talking.
	We'll come right back to the conversation, but there's a bunch of chats that we have to get to.
	We've kind of been sold in on them.
	So, Alpha Pig, thank you coming up.
	Alpha Pig donated $200.
	Yeah, thank you, man.
	Society has lost the share point of humanity, which is procreation and advancing itself.
	Ladies, do you disagree with that statement?
	If so, what is the point of humanity?
	It's a good question.
	It's subjective.
	You guys want to answer that?
	Answer is subjective.
	I agree.
	They all agree.
	They totally understand the message that just.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Yo, Ogle, thank you for the gifted 50 memberships on YouTube.
	Thank you so much, man.
	We also have a TTS coming in from Ogle.
	Let's see, wait.
	Society has lost the entire point of humanity, which is procreation advancing itself.
	Ladies, do you...
	Here, I'm going to get the rest of them to answer that one, though.
	Google.net donated $200.
	Sorry, dude, but relativism is not subjectivism per se.
	A mouse is very small relative to an elephant, but large relativism.
	I said I am a relativist.
	If I say I am a relativist and that's my subjective state, could you name one Kant book?
	Can you name one book by Kant?
	Can you define one book?
	Are you going to keep running away from that?
	You're a Kantian.
	I'm not a Kantian.
	Can you name one book by Kant?
	I don't need to.
	So you don't know anything about Kant.
	You've never read the book.
	You don't know a Kantian.
	You don't know nothing.
	Definitely.
	A name of the book by Kant.
	Not off the top of my head.
	Because you haven't read Kant.
	You don't know Ding.
	You don't read a book.
	I've read three books by Kant.
	I don't remember the names of them.
	You haven't read three books by Kant.
	You can't name one of them.
	Name one of them.
	Name one of them.
	I don't need to.
	Citing books by the history.
	Because you lied.
	Citing books.
	You haven't read Kant.
	Don't you think people who study at a graduate level can pick out when somebody thinks they know a topic?
	Don't you think they start talking about that?
	Doesn't have a philosophy at a point.
	And then they don't know a single book.
	Because you're too dumb to answer.
	You think a word has one meaning.
	Yeah, you think objectivism and absolutism is the same, bro.
	Because the sense of it in the context determines how I'm meaning it.
	It's called intentionality in linguistic philosophy.
	It's intentionality.
	Okay.
	The intentionality behind when I say I'm in a subjective relativism, my position, that would be my state.
	That's my subjective state.
	Cool, that's not what we're talking about, though.
	It's what I'm giving an example that you're talking about.
	I'm trying to define the difference between absolute dialogue.
	Could you name one philosophy book that you've read?
	The five dialogues by Aristotle, the Plato, Republic.
	There's no book.
	The five dialogues by Aristotle, Plato, Republic.
	Those are two books that I've read.
	So the five dialogues.
	Which one?
	Because Plato wrote a bunch of dialogues.
	Name one.
	One of the five.
	I'm not sure.
	Plato's Republic.
	You don't know any of them.
	That's not a dialogue.
	It's a long dialogue.
	I know you think that's a good idea.
	What's one of the five dialogues?
	What do you think is this where you go?
	You can't name it.
	Because you're practicing no thing.
	Because, like Destiny, you come to debates acting like you know what you're talking about.
	Same thing to you.
	Name five of the books.
	Does Jimhov not know anything about the government because he couldn't name the name of the government yesterday?
	You said you read this, though.
	Yeah, that doesn't mean I memorized the name of the book.
	You could name one of the five, surely.
	Nope.
	Because you haven't read it.
	Yeah, I have.
	So you lied.
	I don't know why you think this is so funny.
	You read five of Plato's dialogues?
	On your friend right now.
	You're deflecting because you're looking like an idiot.
	You read five of Plato's dialogues, supposedly, and you haven't remembered one of them.
	What's a book that you read on Adam?
	What's one of them?
	What's your favorite book?
	Name one of them.
	So that's a two-quote question.
	I've already said that I don't know the name of the books, but this is not a book.
	But you said you read it.
	And I think you're lying.
	I think you're lying about your entire book.
	Get right back to Ryan.
	You guys can ask each other about books in just a moment.
	But I don't want to ask you because you just got exposed as a fake.
	You haven't read any of that.
	Jim Bob doesn't read.
	He's turning the three branches of the general.
	You're assumed.
	You haven't read any of this stuff.
	Hold on, guys.
	Hold on.
	Just disagree with that statement.
	So I pulled this one back up because I don't want to screw this guy over because he sent in a you know, he sent in a $200 TTS.
	If you guys can answer the question, do you disagree with the statement?
	Society has lost the entire point of humanity, which is procreation and advanced.
	So, do you guys agree that the entire point of humanity is procreation and advancing its society advancing itself?
	In like an animalistic way, like, yes, like that's like every species is continued procreating to keep it going.
	That's like, yes, that's to me, that's like not debatable.
	But because we're not what you think of when you think of animals, you know, because we're sentient, I would say that like sometimes that's just not every single person's goal.
	Some people aren't meant to be mothers, some people aren't meant to be fathers, some people would be a shitty mother or father.
	And frankly, we don't really need them in the gene pool, so to speak.
	So, like, if they don't want to procreate, then like, don't.
	Do you want to weigh in?
	Do you want to weigh in?
	I don't know.
	That's just my two sons.
	I don't know.
	What do I know?
	Sure.
	I don't really even understand the question, to be honest.
	It's too complicated.
	Alpha pig, you're too smart.
	You're way too smart, Alpha Pig.
	You got to change it here.
	Let me read.
	There's about five other chats we have to get through.
	This is I.D. Bro.
	He says, The reason why it's relevant is you were trying to say that hebs of the OT are the same as now, which is a blatant lie.
	You said King David is the same type of heb as Jewish people nowadays, absolute airhead.
	What does that mean?
	This is like way back.
	This is like from yesterday.
	No, this is from the start of the conversation because he sent in another one.
	He said they were, Jewish people were patrilineal.
	So this guy.
	He's following up on that statement.
	Gotcha.
	Again, I wasn't denying that they were patrilineal for those like 30 years that he listed.
	The issue was that then they were matrilineal after that.
	I don't know.
	It doesn't mean that they were matriarchy.
	They were matrilineal.
	We have BP here.
	He says, I'm so glad the sun dying isn't inevitable because it didn't happen by ancient Roman times.
	And this came in about over an hour ago.
	So this is probably related to a different conversation we're having.
	I don't know what this is in reference to.
	Sorry, BP.
	It's yesterday's her argument that was so stupid about the inevitability of feminism.
	And I gave examples of history where societies didn't have it, thus showing that it wasn't necessary and inevitable, which you didn't understand.
	Oh, you're so smart, Jay.
	My God.
	I'm so blessed to be in space with you.
	Do you understand why that's the case?
	Is somebody tapping the typing?
	Taps.
	Oh, okay.
	All good.
	Oh, okay.
	Gotcha, gotcha.
	All good.
	Okay, we have Jason Cassell.
	Chair 4, do you know how ridiculous you sound?
	So you had no agency made to do something you never would have done on your own, but now you are on your own.
	You do that, do that very thing.
	This is when you're saying your ex-boyfriend, he got you into, you said he was PIMPing you to do OF, basically.
	I said that word because he was taking all my money.
	He was exploiting my body.
	I was too, but he was exploiting my body and taking the money from me.
	So yeah, that is a very now that you're on your own, you still do the thing that you feel, I guess, bad about, is what he's trying to say.
	I never said I felt bad about it.
	I said that I did things when I was 19 and 20 that I would not have chose to do on my own.
	Aren't you exploiting the viewers and taking their money?
	No, because they will.
	I'm asking for.
	You don't need to.
	No, you're right.
	You're right.
	I wouldn't say I'm exploiting anybody.
	People have a choice.
	You put your bank so you had a choice in doing what you're doing, so you can't blame it on the guy then.
	I literally, from the beginning, said I had a choice.
	No one forced me.
	I said I was delusional.
	I'm done.
	I do have to move it on.
	We have Sandbox Explorer.
	Looks like bought a oh, this is shopped out whatever.com bought a piece of merch.
	Looks like he bought a hoodie.
	Thank you so much.
	Gonna get a large.
	Appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	We have Renzo here.
	He writes, I've been counting Jay's and Kayla's interruptions for each other.
	Jay 32, Kayla, 7.
	This is from an hour ago, so it's probably outdated.
	When a person is confident in their position, they're open to hearing the opponent's argument.
	TLDR, too long, didn't read.
	Jay, shut the...
	Wait, hold on.
	Oh, wait.
	Oh, wait.
	No, it's looking out.
	I'll give you $100 if you can name one of the five dialogues that you claim you've read.
	I'll give you $200 if you can name it's Trilemma.
	I've literally said six times that I can't name any of the books that doesn't.
	I've read them.
	I haven't read them.
	Yeah.
	Could you name one of Kant's for $200?
	Again, I've already answered.
	I know you think this is a crazy dumb.
	But again, if this is true for me, do you remember what Jim Barbara was?
	I'm not sure if you're voting because he couldn't.
	No, I never did.
	I never claimed to know anything about the government.
	But you're debating about voting and about rights and about branches of government.
	So you want to change the subject.
	You don't know the three branches of the book.
	So you've not read the books.
	Would you admit that you've never read it?
	Nobody would read that.
	Because I can't name books and I don't know what I'm talking about.
	Usually people who've read the book remember titles.
	Just let's read.
	Does the titles come to mind if you've read a book?
	Just let the merit of the argument exist.
	If you can't refute them without falling back to like how many books.
	So your response is.
	I guess you're getting a W.
	So you didn't read the books.
	I did read the books.
	You're a suede who lies about what she's read and studied.
	And when you get called out.
	It's better than lying about my victory when I can't define the difference between absolutism and an objectivism.
	Because you can't.
	Yeah, I didn't get tested on the name of the book.
	I got tested on under the differences between the books.
	You didn't read the books.
	You actually didn't.
	That's okay.
	You don't know the content.
	That's okay?
	Yeah.
	So you admitted you did.
	No, I read the books, but I don't know.
	But you don't know any of the titles.
	Do you remember any book titles you've read?
	The recent one.
	Oh, God.
	I'm reading The Wandering Instagram.
	So you do remember book titles.
	Well, I'm reading it like right now.
	Right.
	So that wasn't exactly the best showing for a book I'm reading right now.
	Yeah, book titles don't mean that you know things.
	Nobody, nobody would ever think about it.
	But it means that you've read the book or you're reading it.
	This is unironically fallacious thinking.
	It's funny.
	No, it's just showing that you're goofy.
	Yeah, you're going to use sick dumbness.
	You're a goofus.
	You're getting mad because you know you're on the spot.
	Just engage with the ideas.
	Jay, so smart.
	Just like Destiny, you're a suede.
	Jay, if you're so smart, engage with my ideas.
	If you're a suede.
	You could cite your books to it.
	But if I thought that you knew what you were talking about, I would engage the ideas.
	Oh, so you're going to pretend you're performing as though you're actually trying to engage.
	It's actually being bad faith.
	Interesting.
	No, it's just a joke.
	Okay.
	It's not.
	It's not bad faith.
	It's a joke.
	I'm just shocked.
	At what?
	Oh, no.
	He did like an animation that like a missile destroyed the screen.
	And I was like, and he was like, you literally triggered the army chick.
	And then I was like, I'm shell shocked.
	Okay, here, we got some chats come through.
	Bales, thank you for the gifted.
	Let me see if I can pull this up.
	Hold on.
	Is this coming in?
	One sec.
	Bales, thank you for the gifted 20 subs over there.
	Is it not working?
	I don't know.
	Appreciate it.
	We have some super chats we have to read.
	We got Sean Brewers.
	Why do all the ortho bros have amazing hair?
	Consider me converted.
	Thank you, Sean Brewers.
	By the way, Sean, really quick, and this is for other people who send in super chats.
	You notice how it says 99 cents there at the end?
	That almost always means you've sent it in through YouTube app on an iPhone, iPad, other Apple device, tablet, whatever.
	What this means is Apple takes 30% of your super chat, and then YouTube takes 30% of what's left, meaning you're giving away 100 plus of this $200 super chat to YouTube and to Apple.
	So that leaves us with a paltry $98.
	You're giving away more than half to the woke mega corpse.
	Look, Sean, I'm still appreciative, of course.
	But if you want the majority of your patronage to go towards the show so we can actually make the show happen because we don't have sponsors, we don't do any of that shit, do it through Streamlabs.
	Streamlabs.com slash whatever, or Venmo, Cash App, whatever.
	Pod.
	Thank you, Sean, though.
	Appreciate it.
	Lucas writes, you do realize that affluent, traditional men are very discerning and exacting when it comes selecting for background values, gender roles, worldview, etc.
	In other words, they're not selecting for a liberal woman with pronouns in her bio.
	Why would you fit the bill?
	This is directed at you if you want to give a response.
	No, I see where you're coming from.
	I do struggle with, I guess, kind of going back to you, how like the tattoos could attract, you know, a certain kind of person.
	I am a musician, free-spirited.
	That's going to definitely attract very interesting people.
	So I see where you're coming from.
	I don't really think in black and white so much.
	And a lot of the conversation that's been going on right now is so black and white.
	It's like, it's either this or it's that.
	I don't think that way.
	Okay.
	Really quick, Lucas has some more follow-ups, but I have a couple follow-ups of my own on this really quick.
	Of all the men you've dated, do you prefer if they make the first move?
	I would like so, but it's not always that way.
	It's not always that.
	But like you said you've been in like 10 situationships or something, maybe a dozen or whatever it was, the past six years you've been single.
	Who typically initiates when it comes to any of the romantic prospects that you have?
	Usually the guy.
	Usually the guy?
	Have you ever asked a guy out?
	I don't know.
	Yeah.
	And of all the first dates you've been on, say in the past six years, who I understand that you're willing to pay for first dates, but who actually ends up paying for the first date, typically?
	A man, but I've paid for myself before.
	On you've done it before, but of all the first dates you've been on, what percentage would you assign to it?
	Almost, yeah, like 99%?
	Okay, 99.
	Okay, so even though you're kind of, well, okay.
	And then what's the other thing?
	Oh, you do want to get married, though.
	You said, do you, you want the guy to propose, I'm assuming?
	Yes.
	You want him to get a ring?
	Yes.
	And would you be upset if the ring was like a total, like a cubic zirconia off of Amazon?
	Or would you want him to spend like a decent amount on the ring?
	Decent amount.
	Like a nice ring, right?
	Okay.
	And then would you want him to get down on one knee to propose to you?
	Yes.
	Hold on a second here.
	So just to be clear, so you want a guy to get down on one knee and then propose to you and then spend the money on the ring, give it, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
	Think, and would you want it to be kind of the proposal to be romantic?
	Yeah.
	Like you don't want him to just, where's the fucking ring?
	Hold on.
	Where's the fucking ring?
	Here's a fucking ring.
	You don't want the guy to just be like, you know, there's the ring.
	There you go, babe.
	Put it on.
	We're married now, or we're engaged now.
	No, right?
	You'd want.
	Okay.
	Why the fuck should a guy do that?
	Like, why?
	You won't take his last name.
	I see what you're saying.
	I mean, I said I was willing to do the hyphen.
	No, no, no.
	He insists.
	He's like, babe, I'm a traditional, old school guy, and my old school traditional beliefs dictate that you need to take my last name.
	So I think that's not a.
	I wouldn't, I wouldn't say yes.
	Just so you can.
	Wait, I'm sorry.
	I think at that point, we wouldn't get to that point.
	We're not compatible.
	We're not, it's not, it's not going to matter.
	It's the everything else.
	Let's just grant that everything else besides that, you're compatible on.
	And this is a perfect dude.
	He's got like a fucking hammer in the pants.
	He's a billionaire and he's really good looking.
	And he's also like going to put your music career to the moon.
	You won't take his last name.
	I'll do, like, I'll compromise on some of my shit for the perfect woman.
	I'll compromise on my shit for because, bro, the perfect woman is rare.
	So you won't even do the traditional thing that like billions of people have already done.
	You won't do the thing.
	Like, I'll compromise.
	I still feel like personally, I would want to keep my last name.
	What?
	Regardless of the situation.
	Wait, you would hyphenate the last name.
	I'd be open to compromise, yes.
	Why can't he hyphenate the diamond and get you a pseudo-diamond?
	That's just a hyphenated real diamond.
	It's crazy, bruv.
	It's crazy, man.
	Like, why does he have to get anything that's legit and real or do anything that's traditional if like everything from your view is like half in, half out?
	It's less, it's just an uneven, right?
	Would you at least concede that?
	It's just an uneven exchange.
	I think what I'm kind of confused on is the importance behind taking a last name.
	Why is it so important?
	It's old school and traditional.
	What about it is demeaning to you to take the name?
	Like, what do you not like about that?
	She's a feminist.
	She can't do it.
	I never said that.
	I didn't say it's because of feminism.
	I'm sure there's feminists that would take the last name.
	Probably, sure.
	Yeah.
	But what if the last name's like really shitty?
	Yeah.
	What if the last name's like super shattered?
	Like Gilbert?
	Like shitty.
	It doesn't matter.
	If you're a Gilbert shitty, I'll answer your question.
	If you're a trad woman and you want a trad guy and he's got the dumbest fucking last name ever, I don't know.
	It's fucking Dingleberry.
	You're taking his last name.
	Well, I'm just...
	I don't give a fuck.
	You're taking that name.
	I'm just saying, like, okay, I'm going to be real with you.
	If I was engaged with a guy and we got to that point and he's perfect, I'm going to be real with you.
	I'm taking his last name.
	Wow.
	But if his last name.
	What a sacrifice.
	That is so.
	I'm not saying it like it's a sacrifice.
	I'm just saying that I would.
	I would.
	Like, it wouldn't be hard.
	But if it fucking sucks, if literally his last name fucking sucks.
	I don't know.
	Like, let's say this was a last name, a Gilbert.
	Like, I would never be, I would never be with a guy named Gilbert, specifically Gilbert.
	You seem like a girl who would date a Gilbert.
	I would not date a fucking Gilbert.
	I think you attract Gilbert.
	He will never catch me getting fucked by a guy and yelling, Gilbert.
	I'm sorry.
	I could see that happening actually.
	Gilbert.
	You give me kind of I date dudes named Gilbert or Bartholomew vibes.
	I mean, Bartholomew's kind of dope.
	But Gilbert, no.
	Like, I'm sorry.
	But, so hold on.
	Going back to this, right?
	So, okay.
	The guy's a trillion.
	The guy's the most handsome Italian ever.
	He's a trillionaire.
	There's no trillion.
	Well, maybe there's trillion last night.
	You really want me to say yes, though.
	But trillionaire.
	Dude, I'll do some borderline weird shit for if I can marry a woman who's a trillionaire, I would do some borderline weird shit to make that happen, okay?
	You wouldn't change your last name for a trillionaire.
	Hello?
	You just really want me to say yes then?
	No, look, if it's a genuine, not even for a trillionaire, not even like thousand-year dynasty fucking money, you'll you won't look.
	If that's if the answer is genuinely, nah, I'm gonna keep my last name.
	Say it.
	If it doesn't affect my career, what I've built so far.
	You're dating a trillionaire dog.
	Your career is over, son.
	You don't need to work.
	You got like a staff, son.
	You got a staff, hundreds of people.
	I want to continue to be able to do that.
	Wait, Here's the condition.
	Here's another condition.
	Well, I'm adding.
	Okay, the sole condition is you got to change your last name, but you get a trillionaire.
	And he's like a great guy and Italian or whatever the fuck.
	Do you do it?
	Bro, you're.
	I'm sorry.
	You're cooking.
	But hold on.
	I'm thinking.
	I think.
	Let me ask another.
	Oh, okay.
	Keep thinking.
	Go ahead.
	No, no, go ahead.
	Would you, if you're...
	Wait, wait, let's let her...
	We gotta let her think, Jim Bob.
	Let her think.
	Go ahead.
	If you're bringing up good points, I would say if all of the points you mentioned, I would be open to it.
	But open to it, yes.
	But I wouldn't be jumping the gun for it.
	Bro, if somebody comes up to me, Brian, she's beautiful and perfect and blah, and she's a trillionaire.
	Wait, what would the reverse be?
	I have to hide.
	Fuck it, I'll hyphenate.
	Fuck it, why not?
	It's instant, instant.
	But I'm just asking you to do the traditional thing.
	Who thinks about this shit?
	Who thinks about it?
	What's there to think about?
	Because I think the reason why I'm hesitant is because I feel like you're wanting me to say something.
	You're making a lot of exceptions.
	Here, let me ask you a question.
	If I could hand you up.
	Am I going to meet a trillionaire like every other guy?
	That's a very small percentage of ever ever happening.
	It doesn't even exist.
	As far as I know, I mean, maybe there's some people who aren't on the books or whatever.
	Like, I doubt that the situation, that specific situation you're talking about.
	No, okay.
	So I'm in the hypothetical, you get the perfect trillionaire guy, but you have to change your last name.
	Do you do it?
	Yes, sure.
	Okay.
	Would you, I wanted to ask you, would you, if your father asked you to change your last name to your mother's maiden name, would you do that?
	Why would that happen?
	No, it's not.
	The question isn't why would it happen, but if for some weird reason he just wished it, he was like, I want you to change your last name to your mother's last name.
	Would you like hold on to the tradition of carrying your father's last name?
	I think, yeah, of course.
	28 years of my identity is behind Vargas.
	Like, why would I just completely change it over to my mom's maiden name?
	Well, that's interesting.
	So, like, you're just, you're holding on to something that's actually traditional.
	The very thing that you're defending would be the thing that the future husband is actually asking you to do.
	So, like, you're saying, like, the tradition of man's name.
	I'm going to hold it.
	Like, I love that tradition.
	But part of the tradition of the man's name is that it actually changes the daughter's name in the future.
	So, your future kids, imagine a future you going, I'm so glad mommy took daddy's last name.
	Right?
	I see what you're saying.
	I got a question.
	Got a question for you.
	So, okay, let's bring it about, make it about your career.
	You get the perfect guy.
	He'll never cheat on you.
	He'll never leave you.
	Trillionaire.
	But he asks, I don't want you to do your career.
	And that's the condition for you being with him.
	You have to give up your career.
	You can still privately, you can't do anything public-facing with music, but privately, if it's a passion of yours, you can like make dope beats in your bedroom or like multiple bedrooms because you're a trillionaire now.
	Would you be willing to give up your career ambitions for a perfect trillionaire?
	Absolutely not.
	But wait, A couple follow-up questions.
	Your career, to what end is the purpose of your career?
	To connect, to have a message and connect with others.
	Music is healing, and I put that into my music all the time, and I connect through.
	Is all music healing?
	No, no.
	Music is everything.
	Music is anger, happiness, joy, sadness, but to me it's healing.
	I'm going to assume something right now.
	I could be wrong.
	I think you want credit.
	Because here's the thing.
	Let's say Brian's hypothetical.
	You have a mansion, he builds you a studio, and you create all this music.
	It's just that people don't know who you are, but they love your music.
	It's changing people.
	Everything you imagine from your music is happening, but they just don't know your face, your name.
	Yeah, you don't want that because you want the credit.
	Wait, I want to.
	Jim Bob, could you, that was a really good question.
	Can you just state it once more?
	So the question is, if the man gives her a mansion and a sick-ass basement studio, she pumps out the music she loves because now she has the time to do it.
	She doesn't have to worry about anything else, right?
	It's funded.
	But she uses like a pseudonym.
	She's got a pseudonym.
	Yeah, yeah, a moniker.
	She's wildly successful for the music you do.
	Your voice is heard.
	Your lyrics are heard.
	So what you're saying is she has the impact that she wants to have, but nobody knows it's her.
	Yeah.
	That's why I think it's a pride thing, like an ego thing, and not an actual, like you're like, I want to change people.
	Well, if you did that without the credit, there are many people who change people, philanthropists, they never say who they are.
	But your image of your success is so, it's really wholly dependent on the credit.
	And people, you're basically a pick-me girl.
	Sorry.
	No, I would say I'm not.
	No, I don't.
	I don't, well, maybe I'm using that too loosely.
	I apologize.
	Like people are like, man, I'm picky.
	Okay, fair enough.
	Sorry.
	I apologize.
	Wait, but even, I mean, even Jim Bob's question is really interesting, though, because it's not necessary, like you would still achieve all the things, but it would be anonymous.
	So ultimately, you want the validation and the credit for doing so.
	I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong for wanting credit for achievement.
	I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
	No, there's nothing wrong inherently, but in this scenario where you're being presented on a silver platter, the perfect man, not just the perfect man, but he's also a trillionaire, which essentially would like your thousand-year dynasty is secured like forever.
	You're the richest woman to have ever lived.
	And I mean, that in and of itself would be kind of like some sort of social status or something.
	But okay.
	Oh, Oh, I had a, I'm trying to think about my phone.
	Oh, okay.
	No, I asked it.
	So you wouldn't give up your career for the perfect guy who's a trillionaire.
	No.
	I wouldn't.
	So you're not.
	I mean, you wouldn't be submissive then.
	Pretty much.
	Why would a man that I would ever be around want for me to give up the biggest thing of my life?
	children yeah he wants you to focus on the because if that if your career let's say you make it isn't it the case that like a traditional man wouldn't want the mother of his children flying to city to city doing performances at massive stadiums and that kind of life like But again, that's like the black and white mentality that we're talking about.
	Yeah, like you could still be like traditional as for marriage and kids and be okay with a woman traveling and towards the moment.
	No, and you want to be a mother.
	Which tradition is that?
	Not being home and being a mother?
	What tradition is that?
	You gotta pick one.
	I think her answer to here is fundamentally, she wouldn't pick those men like the.
	Probably the worst thing that's happening here is she's saying that she wants a traditional man, when really she kind of wants like a modern man who's like more masculine than he is feminine, so that she still like finds him attractive.
	That's like probably the reality.
	It's probably like a misnomer, I could be wrong, but like what you're describing to me is like what you really want is like a more modern guy.
	In most ways, you just want him to not be soy as fuck.
	That's, that's what i'm hearing from you.
	Yeah, I would say Sophia, thank you.
	Yeah, I don't think we're disputing that.
	Like there are guys who exist who date like hyper successful women, for example like uh, famous female musicians uh, they are in relationships with men and these men tolerate to some degree the their boss babe career, whatever.
	Uh, I don't think we're disputing that.
	I think we're more so.
	And, for example, a woman could be like the most modern promiscuous, like thousand body count, whatever all these like negative characteristics that you wouldn't typically associate with a traditional woman, and she could still like, have a standard and want men to pay for first dates, which is like a traditional dynamic, and she can very well get it.
	I don't think anybody here disputes like okay, you could be like the most degenerate modern woman ever and still get guys to pay for uh, for dates for you.
	That's not a dispute at all.
	We're having like sort of a bird's eye conversation about that.
	Well, is that a fair shake?
	Is that?
	Is that fair for the, for the man?
	Yeah, I think.
	I think a lot of modern dating standards that are erected are are essentially unfair for men.
	I think a lot of times there very much is this energy of like having your cake and eating it too in the reverse situation um, and I think and I think that comes from this idea of like some level of a gender opportunism where you kind of want all the things that traditionalism benefits the woman, but you don't want any of the cons that come with it.
	And I think when you're, when you're doing that cost analysis, then you need to like actually, and look at these traditional structures and go, what value does it add to me, why do I want this thing?
	And then decide if it actually means anything, because otherwise you're kind of putting things on other people that you're not willing willing to.
	I want to add to that that men there are men out there um, not to like put all the sort of red pillars in one basket here, but just to generalize is there's this trend of men who Are pushing for this like traditional expectation and they're catching the chicks in this contradiction.
	Oh, double standard.
	I would argue that those a lot of those men aren't themselves submissive to something bigger.
	And so they're actually not consistent either.
	So they're expecting these women to fall in line and submit to them.
	And there's no paradigm that they're using.
	And they're not respect worthy a lot of the time either.
	Well, yeah, there's nothing.
	It's like this sort of like, I'm a man, demand it, but there's nothing that's informing them.
	And I can't say it enough that if you're a man out there and you kind of have this like sentiment of traditionalism and you want the woman to submit to you, if she doesn't see you submit to something higher, there's no reflection that she can see of why she ought to submit to you.
	All she sees is a man saying, submit, because a man, right?
	And that's kind of the rhetoric we hear.
	That's why I advocate for Christianity, because that will make all of that make sense.
	You'll understand a proper system of submission through Christianity.
	And without that, I don't think it exists.
	It's literally like a, like, what's the alternative?
	It's like a kind of like just a militant structure.
	You know, it's just like, it's like working for a company where you're just like, you work for my company now.
	It's like, that's not enough for women to submit.
	So any of you men are confused, why aren't they submitting?
	They don't, they're not understanding the lens through which submission is a virtue.
	Yeah.
	I mean, like, I think if you're in a secular lens, if I like apply to a secular lens, I think for a lot of men, like the reason that I submit to my husband isn't just because I'm like, I feel like that's spiritually meaningful for me, right?
	It's an important thing in my faith to do.
	But I do it because Nick is the most respectworthy person I know in my life.
	Like I delight to listen to him because I trust him.
	That's why I picked him.
	That's why he picked me is because I respect him and there's that mutual love and respect.
	And so I think for a lot of men, even if you're not religious and they're expecting the submission from women, it's like, what is there to respect here?
	Like, do you have any higher values that you're submitting to?
	Do you have any quality of character that you're trying to submit to yourself?
	Like, is there any ethics or like moral character that you are putting yourself to that essentially you're submitting to, whether it's like ideally God or not God?
	Just for the viewers.
	Word.
	Wait, one final question on this, and I'll move it on.
	So I guess we'll start with you.
	I'll ask everyone on the panel: would you rather have a high-status career but make no money, or a low-status career but make, say, $100,000 a year?
	Low status.
	Okay, so you'd go with $100.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	So let's say it could be like lawyer versus like my ideal.
	Is the question like, what's my ideal job versus?
	Sure, yeah.
	Your idea of like a high status job.
	Yeah, I would take like a high status job with zero pay over the low status job.
	$100,000.
	Okay, what about you?
	Low status.
	Low.
	Can you say the question again?
	Yeah, so high-status job, but you make no money.
	Can you give an example of a high-status job?
	Yeah, like lawyer.
	But like no money, like zero.
	Yeah, you're a lawyer.
	Slavery.
	Yeah, you make no money.
	But you're like a high-level money.
	Or like volunteer.
	Not like volunteer work, okay?
	I'm actually confused.
	What is the high-status aspect to if it's not money?
	Like, what's a high-status job that doesn't pay money?
	If it's not money, what is the status?
	Is it like visibility?
	Like, you're on a reality show?
	Like, everyone knows you, you're famous, but you have no money.
	So, for example, I could see like a plumber and a lawyer, both of those jobs, making the same amount of money, but I think most people, like, assessment of that would be like the lawyer is more prestigious than like a plumber.
	All right, you know, if that kind of makes sense.
	That makes sense.
	That makes more sense.
	Even if they make the same amount.
	Yeah.
	I guess just for the sake of, hey, I got to put, you know, I have a roof.
	I need to pay for a roof over my head.
	I picked the low status job that actually pays versus having like this giant sphere of influence, but like I can't get money.
	What about you?
	But you just said they're making the same amount of money.
	It's just I was explaining the status component, like how there could be a differential of status between two jobs who do make the same amount of money.
	Okay, so then I would agree.
	Into the mic, into the mic.
	I would agree with her.
	I would do low status.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I was just curious about it.
	That's interesting.
	I mean, it's something to add, like, when I say high status, I'm just picturing like my dream role that I'm occupying.
	Like, doing my dream is like running a treatment center, right?
	So it's like, if that's what you mean, but I'm making no money, I'm assuming in this world, I'm magically also like covering my bills.
	I would love to do that.
	You're saying I can't do that and cover my bills.
	And I guess, fuck, we're a little bit tied to money, aren't we?
	Can someone explain, like, what does orbs mean?
	Like, it keeps like orbo, orb, like, what?
	Orb.
	It's from my audience.
	It's an inside joke for my audience because I had a drama with a dude who believes that orbs like show up on his live streams and we have this big fallout.
	So now all my audience makes fun of him.
	We're talking about orbs.
	Like paranormal orbs.
	Yes.
	Oh, that's so funny.
	Now we have Lucas here with his follow-up.
	As a follow-on, I think it's fair to say that traditional men capable of fully providing for a household are not looking for a hot mess project.
	Rather, they're looking for a wife already inculcated with and fully aligned with the family dynamic outlined by Ephesians 5.22.
	And we have Lucas following up again.
	Yikes, not taking your husband's last name.
	Well, maybe it's a Greek cultural thing, but that would be akin to my wife slinging a pot of turds at my entire family.
	Much like not naming my son after my dad, chapter six, oh, chair six.
	Good luck finding that traditional masculine feminist man.
	Oh, that's you, chair six.
	So what if he said he'll take your name?
	Be icky, right?
	That wouldn't happen.
	I wouldn't.
	What if you found a does that actually happen?
	Yeah, it actually.
	Yeah, I have a friend who took his wife.
	Sometimes guys take girl names.
	I didn't know that.
	I would, if he really wants to, why not?
	Okay, important question.
	Last name's better.
	I mean, if his last name is like Gaylord and like, what if your last name's in Epic, Mega?
	Are you taking a new last name?
	Like, if you get, if you have an opportunity to like flee the Epstein name, that would be the man's determination.
	Or any state.
	Yeah, of course.
	But I'm asking, like, would you guys be like, if you were last named Epstein and you had an opportunity to, like, would you change your life?
	Oh, are you saying, like, not within the context of marriage, just like, would you change your last name if you're not going to be able to do that?
	I'm also making a meme, but yeah.
	Yeah, if a guy wanted to change his last name for whatever, I think that's fine.
	Yeah.
	That's fair.
	That's what I mean.
	Is she just like supposed to change her name to Epstein?
	If she's in a relationship with him and that's his given last name and he desires to keep it and he's a traditional guy and his traditional expectation is you're going to take my last name, then yeah, she's going to change it.
	And name the son Jeffrey too.
	Got to go with it.
	You're tweeting.
	We have some chats here.
	We have Belial.
	He just says, hi, hey, Hyacinth.
	Oh, hi.
	Is this your homie?
	Yeah.
	Thank you, Belial.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it.
	Then we have Sean coming in here.
	It's going to take a moment to pull up.
	Agrippa's trilemma posits that any attempt to justify belief leads to infinite regress, dogmatism, or circularity.
	Coherent coherentism is an epistemological theory that can attempt to solve this.
	But it doesn't.
	Well, you say that, but you have evidence that you're not aware of the basics.
	So, we're not going to listen to anything you say about philosophy when you can't name it.
	You still can't separate absolutism from objectivism.
	Name one book from Plato.
	You can't.
	Because you haven't read it.
	Just admit that you haven't read it.
	I have read it.
	I don't know.
	You don't know any titles of the most famous books.
	I'd like to engage in the books.
	The most famous philosophical texts in history.
	If you just want to fall back on this, you can.
	You're a suede.
	I'm not a suede.
	I've read the titanium.
	But you can't name one of them.
	Nope, but I don't know.
	Because you haven't read it with my ideas?
	Because you haven't read them.
	Again, this is not the dunk book.
	Your ideas are not worthwhile because you're a suede.
	At least I'm not lying about having a degree in philosophy, I guess.
	Because if you did, you could definitely tell us the difference between absolutism and objectivism.
	I gave you the explanation.
	You didn't.
	You said they're synonymous.
	In the context, in terms of intentionality, how I'm using it, they can be synonymous.
	Do you know that words can be.
	The word a weasel answer.
	That's correct.
	The word kid, can it mean two different things?
	Oh, so your answer to what's the difference between absolutism and objectivism is equivocating.
	That's amazing.
	Can the word kid mean two different things?
	Power level.
	Can the word kid mean two different things?
	Yeah, of course.
	Okay, so words are dependent on their context.
	Yeah, so you're answering the definitional question here by equivocating.
	The word subjective.
	You don't know what equivalent of, just so you guys know, is when you take the word meaning of the words.
	And you use them differently within the same premise so that you can muddy the conversation and make it hard.
	So he's acting like absolutism when we're talking about that definition.
	It's just his personal definition that he's thinking of in the moment.
	When I'm obviously asking about the school of absolutism versus the school of objectivism.
	I'm not talking about that.
	I'm talking about yours.
	But I know what I hear because I was critiquing your argument.
	Good one.
	Good one, Jay.
	Yeah.
	So all the yapping wasn't addressing the critique.
	Again, if you just want to deal with the terms, I'm asking you to define the difference between absolutism and five Plato books you said you've read, and you can't name one.
	Nope.
	Because you lied.
	At least I know the difference between these two kinds of things.
	So you're admitting you lied.
	Nope.
	You didn't lie.
	Nope.
	But you can't name one of the five.
	Nope.
	The most famous philosophical text in history, Plato's Dialogues.
	And when I read through it in school, it comes in the five dialogues.
	So I didn't memorize the specific books within each of them.
	And you can't name one of them.
	Of the five dialogues?
	Nope.
	But can you define the difference between absolutism and subsidies?
	And the topics that you're talking about.
	You can.
	Because you don't understand what you're talking about.
	Plato, Kant.
	You don't see the difference there?
	Name one.
	Name one book of Kant.
	You want me to help you?
	It starts with a C. One of the Kant books that's famous?
	I don't know it.
	Right, because you haven't read it.
	You said I read three Kant books.
	Describe stuff.
	Because you haven't read it.
	Just admit you haven't read it.
	I've read them?
	The whole internet?
	You haven't.
	Because they're famous.
	Okay, how are we just going to circle it?
	Anybody in this domain would know?
	Do you want to engage with my ideas?
	Do you remember the most exciting books?
	You remember the book that you read recently and its title?
	Eventually I did.
	Yeah, but you can't remember the most famous books.
	Yeah, don't go around memorizing book names.
	You're right.
	In future debates, I'll do my best to memorize book names.
	Do you want to deal with my ideas yet, or do you just want to keep on being bad?
	You have a philosophy book to try to get opticians.
	One philosophy book from any of the philosophers.
	One philosophy book, Plato's Republic.
	Okay.
	Did you read that?
	No, I actually didn't.
	Okay.
	Can you name one you've read?
	Off the top of my dome, not right now.
	Because you haven't read the subject matter and you came to debate.
	Oh, Nietzsche's.
	What's the data?
	Nietzsche's, what's it called?
	I'm trying to remember.
	The gods.
	He goes through the structures.
	I mean, if I can list, do you want me to list what's within the books?
	Okay, the Nietzsche's structure.
	And he talks about this thing.
	I'm going to help you.
	That's not the book that I read.
	That's not what I'm citing.
	That spoke their Carathustra is not the book that I'm talking about.
	I'm giving you the first words of Nietzsche books.
	The anti-I don't know why you think this is a dunk.
	I just blame you.
	Because you don't know any of the subjects that you're trying to develop.
	Do you want to engage with the idea?
	You said that I don't know philosophy.
	You called it to question my degree.
	And you can't name a single philosophy book.
	You're okay.
	I'm not claiming to have a degree in philosophy.
	No, you said I was a fraud.
	I think you're a fraud because you can't.
	You don't know the difference between ad questions and objectivism, which you absolutely never know.
	Name one philosophical book, you idiot.
	I already lied.
	I already lived.
	Name one.
	What do you have read?
	None.
	I've read parts of Thus Speaks Their Sustra.
	Because I helped you with the title.
	Again, I can go through the book that I'm thinking of of Nietzsche and what it is.
	This just isn't the dunk.
	And what's the philosophy that he has?
	As a pro-debater.
	You should be able to engage with ideas and not have to hide behind the subject.
	Thus spoke Zarathustra.
	What's he lay out?
	I can't remember.
	What view of history?
	I already said that I'd only read it.
	What view of history?
	What?
	What view of history does it have to lay out?
	Like I said, I only know.
	Because you haven't read it.
	You're a liar.
	I said I read.
	Because you're a liar.
	Bro, you're so horrible.
	You don't know the basics of the book?
	You're so horny for this.
	You don't know the basics?
	Are you so mad?
	Again, I don't remember the title.
	I'm failing because you're not.
	None of these books that I've read.
	If you'd like to engage with the ideas that we're talking about, I would love to do that.
	Can you define me the difference between absolutism and objectivism?
	Just one.
	That thus spoke their thus spake their sustustra.
	This is just like not the optic dunk you think it is.
	Again, I have read the budget.
	You have no knowledge of philosophy at all.
	I don't remember what they're called.
	You don't know anything about it.
	You want to engage with the idea.
	Brett, how long do you think it's a faith?
	You are failing because you lied.
	I'm not failing.
	You're a liar.
	I'm really mad because I don't know.
	You lied.
	This time, like, compared to last year.
	You said that I'm a fraud and you're so mad.
	Oh, now it's a sea.
	I don't get sleep.
	I can't remember.
	Yeah, I flew back from Israel.
	I was up for 30 hours straight.
	Three hours of sleep and four years.
	I don't know what book.
	No, I put these artists.
	You're going to call me out as a fraud.
	Well, you don't know the difference between absolutism and objectivism.
	You're going to call me out as a fraud.
	You have zero knowledge of the subject.
	And I would hope that you would know it.
	You failed.
	Citing books doesn't mean that you're educated at all.
	It means that you don't know anything about books and memorized names that are fucking reasonable.
	You lied.
	This is lied.
	You lied.
	I don't know how long people are.
	You're admitting that you lied.
	No, I did not admit that.
	I have not lied.
	You couldn't name one book or the subject matter.
	I already said I've named one book that's a fucking philosophy book after I helped you.
	I already said that I couldn't read in Plato's Republic.
	What is subject matter?
	I already said I don't remember the part specifically.
	I remember cracking the book and reading a bit of it.
	Thank you for admitting I have no knowledge of philosophy.
	That's not true at all.
	I don't know why you need to know.
	I don't know to read any philosophy books.
	God do I have knowledge of the subject.
	I keep losing this debate to this stupid woman that I keep interrupting.
	I had no knowledge.
	Oh, this book title.
	I don't get her.
	She's freaking out.
	She's freaking out.
	Are you again?
	Like 40 something?
	I have no knowledge of the subject matter.
	Aren't you like 40?
	Yeah.
	That's again.
	Oh, so you're going to have Haman and Nell.
	And you've been debating for crazy.
	Okay, I have the interject.
	Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
	Y'all, shut up.
	You've been literally insulting her the entire time.
	I care what you think.
	I don't care.
	You've been insulting her the entire time.
	You've been calling her an idiot.
	Look, I'm not saying, look, I'm not afraid of you.
	Listen, I'm going to come and debate you, but I'm going to question your military history.
	No, first of all, can I do that?
	No, yeah.
	Hold on.
	You're not in the military.
	Yes, I am.
	1,000%.
	Right.
	Sergeant.
	Yep.
	See?
	No, but hold on.
	That's what she did.
	What I'm trying to say.
	Why did you.
	Oh, I thought.
	Okay, hold on.
	Let me finish my fucking point.
	Don't pass out the.
	Okay, there.
	Go ahead.
	It's okay.
	Oh, my God.
	Okay, let me finish my point.
	Are you sure you don't have fake titties, bro?
	Wow.
	I'm just.
	Let me like answer the fucking question.
	Can I say my point for once?
	For once in my life, can I speak?
	Go ahead.
	All right.
	So imagine if I had.
	Oh, my.
	God.
	I'm going to give an example of something.
	Remember what I'm saying?
	Can I please just?
	I just want to say one thing.
	You guys can go back to whatever the fuck you're doing.
	I would have loved to stop.
	She's a fraud.
	One thing.
	I want to ask you a question.
	Can I just say one thing?
	Okay.
	I already forgot what I was going to say.
	Give me a sec.
	Give me a fucking second.
	Okay.
	I said exactly.
	No, that's literally.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	You've been calling her an idiot the entire time.
	She is.
	She got caught on.
	Stop.
	She got caught on.
	That's an insult.
	That's what Ed Hominem is.
	Okay, thank you.
	Well, you're insulting her.
	And now you're talking about.
	Because she lied.
	So if I, hold on.
	So it's okay to lie.
	No, it's not okay to lie, but I'm saying, like, damn, you're not.
	I didn't lie.
	I don't feel like you're not.
	You haven't read these subjects.
	She threw one punch at you.
	You haven't read the book.
	She threw one punch at you.
	And now you're like, no, no, no, no.
	Why are you hitting me?
	Why are you hitting me?
	It's like, bro, you've been hitting her like 50 times in a row.
	No, that's not what happened.
	So imagine if I come to you and I say, I don't know anything about the military, but you're not in the military.
	You're a fraud.
	What would you say?
	I would say.
	Whoa.
	I think you can question my experience where I went to basic my MOS weapon in the world and I can answer it off the fly.
	I don't have to make shit up.
	Exactly.
	That's not a point to me at all.
	If you have this background, I don't know this.
	Jay, you gotta pause.
	You gotta freeze and let me speak, or I'm just gonna name it.
	I'm talking over you at this point because you could not stop interrupting.
	You wouldn't even let this woman speak.
	You failed.
	Breathe.
	You failed.
	Jay, breathe.
	You're a fraud.
	You got caught lying.
	This doesn't make you.
	Your debate career is over.
	Again.
	You fraud.
	Lost every day.
	Ryan, I will call you out for things we talked about yesterday.
	If you go there, don't do it.
	Come on, banter.
	Don't do it.
	I'm bantering.
	Okay.
	I haven't read these books.
	That's what you want to hear.
	But that's just not true.
	I have read the books.
	I've read the titles.
	What's in them?
	Or what's in them?
	Actually, I went through the Nietzsche book and decided that.
	Tell me what's in it.
	No, I can't remember this.
	What's in it?
	I already, Jesus.
	So you don't know.
	Yeah, now you're cussing and melting down because you don't know.
	You lied.
	Calling me melting down is crazy.
	You're melting down.
	Second of all, you do your fake giggle when you're making down.
	I already acknowledged all of your questions.
	I've answered them honestly.
	I don't remember the titles.
	So you lied because you said you've read the book.
	You still won't answer what the difference is between absolutism and objectivism.
	Did you lie?
	Because you know how silly it makes you look.
	Did you lie?
	And if you have a Phil degree, I don't owe you an antiquity when you're not.
	I have a psych degree.
	You're not competent.
	Now you're signing your degrees.
	No one cares.
	That doesn't give you philosophy knowledge.
	I would love to.
	You're not competent in that.
	Or say my piece.
	I don't owe you a subject.
	You invited me here.
	You fucking retarded.
	You accepted it.
	You didn't want to sit there.
	You're the retard because you accepted it.
	No, not at all.
	I'm not the one getting mad at you and saying, like, I won't engage with you.
	Let's go.
	I'm lost.
	You're the retard.
	Sorry.
	The R word off the street.
	Restarted.
	Sorry, restarted.
	Just to make sure is the R word off.
	I think we try to avoid it, but sometimes the R word is warranted.
	So I'll give the R word pass.
	For now, I'll give a pass for that.
	Gotcha.
	Okay.
	So the issue is that if we were talking about, say, psychology, I have a degree in psychology, and you thought that I was incorrect about something.
	Nothing to do with this.
	I'm giving an analogy.
	You can follow.
	Jay, you can follow along.
	It's okay.
	Breathe.
	We don't care about psychology.
	Because you're such a great debater.
	You can handle a question.
	It's not relevant.
	You just want to yap.
	Because you want to try to save.
	You dug a hole in the middle.
	Okay, there are two options for this panel at this point.
	I can continue my talking point.
	You can breathe and you can let me speak.
	Or we move on to something different so that the audience and everyone at the table can have something to say.
	I love that.
	You are 200 IQ, Kyla.
	Thank you.
	We're going to move it on.
	We're moving it on.
	Good suggestion.
	We have Lucas here with the chat.
	Oh, God.
	No.
	Lucas, you're killing me.
	Since you claim to have read Plato's Republic, can you tell me what Plato described as the subject?
	This is basic, basic stuff.
	Okay, she didn't read it either.
	Thank you, Lucas, for the message.
	Thank you, Lucas.
	Lies about philosophy.
	You're lying when you said that you did.
	So anyways, we have Stiffler here.
	Ask everyone to rate their own looks on a scale of one to ten.
	You can't pick seven.
	Starting with you, into the mic.
	I think that's the most superficial question to ever ask.
	Do I need the answer?
	It's yes.
	Go ahead.
	I'll do seven because I can't pick.
	What?
	You can't.
	You can't pick seven.
	You're not going to pick ten?
	Oh, you give it.
	Give them one.
	It makes them really mad.
	Not going to pick ten?
	I'm going to pick.
	One.
	Imagine if you're a majority.
	Give us the real answer there.
	Why would that?
	Okay, so just to be clear, so if you say one, for example, like so, if the scale is like one is like the most ugliest person ever and ten is like beautiful like super beautiful, prettiest woman you've ever seen, where do you put yourself on the scale?
	One eternity later.
	Six.
	Okay, what about you?
	I don't know, like an eight.
	I don't know.
	Okay, what about you?
	Six.
	With makeup a six, without a five.
	Got an answer.
	With makeup an eight, without makeup, like a five as well.
	A six.
	Okay.
	Jim Bob?
	6.9.
	I reached out.
	Jay, scale of 1 to 10 on looks.
	11.
	Jay, you got it.
	Come on, Jay.
	I'm just joking.
	Into the mic if you can.
	Just looks.
	yes uh eight i give myself i give myself a uh a five I give myself a five.
	Okay, that's cool.
	Hold on.
	Jim Bob, can you ask a question real quick?
	I need to just get up for a moment.
	What?
	I need to get up for a moment.
	Oh, well, is it going to come up?
	Oh, just ask any question.
	Well, I hate to bring it back to this, but you should probably.
	I don't know.
	I wanted to go back to something about the GDP just briefly.
	Oh, you're killing us, Jim Bob.
	If it's the case that the GDP of a nation is the product of many individual households and their productivity, each individual household and their productivity, like if they are seeing that as the value, if it's all tragic, okay?
	If each individual urge, their urge, their drive to produce is tragic, but it actually produces a high GDP, aren't you arguing for a tragic society of individuals?
	Nope.
	Okay, so GDP is not really tied to the productivity of a household.
	It's essentially all the goods that are finalized within a country.
	So it's not really about a household because, for example, if you're like a mid, if you're a factory worker, you're not like contributing to the calculated GDP in like a super direct way.
	So it's not like a total one-to-one.
	I understand your point, though, so I'll grant where you're kind of going with this.
	So the answer was an ecological fallacy, which I can just explain now.
	It's this idea where you take like a normative claim for a group and then you apply it to an individual.
	So the normative claim that like GDP is probably good for a nation, that's my normative, broad claim.
	And what you're doing is you're being like, isn't that good for the individual?
	You're engaging in an ecological fallacy because at an individual level, right?
	What I'm talking about when I'm saying it's a tragedy is this like sad thing to me where genuinely most of the moral value that we put on men is the money that they produce.
	This happens a lot in dating.
	And I think that that's something that's unfair to do to men, particularly in an economy where every single person has to be working anyways.
	And we don't attach the same level of moral value to women based on the money that they're making.
	So I think it's a tragedy in that way.
	I don't think it's bad to like pursue commerce or try to make money or anything like that.
	That's not the tragedy.
	It's when I look at a man and I determine his value based on the size of his wallet.
	I think that's not a good thing.
	But that doesn't mean GDP is not good.
	Wait, so you think it's a tragedy to expect men to be providers?
	Is that I think it's a tragedy to attach the only value of a man to the money that he owe.
	I think men bring more than money.
	Okay, only okay.
	Yeah, okay.
	I think men bring character, they're people, they have personalities, right?
	They're interesting.
	Do you think it's a tragedy for a woman to look first for money?
	I think what it does.
	Top of the list, I mean?
	Yeah, I actually think it's, I think it leads women to bad relationships a lot and dissatisfied relationships, but it's a very much like, again, it's kind of gender opportunism where they're like, man, I really hate traditionalism, except for when it benefits me.
	So I genuinely advise women to like value that less.
	You should look for more like upward mobility.
	Like if money is about how hard you work, you should look for how hard you work and upward mobility, not your set income.
	I love that for you.
	Thanks.
	I love that.
	I don't know.
	I don't know why.
	Wait a minute.
	Oh my goodness, Brian.
	I'm not sure if that's what just happened there, but I'll accept it.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate it.
	Okay, so we did this.
	Finishing up on this, though, we have a follow-up question.
	What do you, no, actually, do you think you'll be better looking in 10 years' time?
	Better looking in 10 years' time.
	So yeah, you're 28.
	Will you be better looking at 38?
	No.
	Okay.
	And then you're 28 now.
	Do you think you're better looking now, or were you better looking at 18?
	I'm better looking now.
	Better looking now.
	Okay.
	Kylo, you're 31.
	Better.
	Do you think you'll be better looking in 10 years' time at 41?
	No.
	Okay.
	And then were you better looking at 21 versus now at 31?
	I had my glow up at like 23.
	So yeah.
	So better looking at 21?
	Okay.
	You're 21.
	No, no, no, better looking at 31.
	Oh, better looking now.
	Okay.
	You're 21, better looking in 10 years' time at 31?
	No.
	Okay.
	You're 24, better looking in 10 years' time at 34?
	Not without surgery.
	Not without surgery.
	Okay.
	Not without lots of stuff.
	You're 25, better looking in 10 years' time at 35.
	Yes.
	20 years' time, 45?
	Oh, oh, shit, it's still me.
	Wait, what?
	Yeah, I thought you like.
	Yes.
	the both.
	Yes, yes, the both.
	Okay.
	30 years' time, 55.
	Will you be better looking?
	Yes.
	40 years' time, 65?
	Yes.
	50 years' time, 75?
	Yes.
	I love you.
	60, my math is 60 years' time, 85.
	Yes.
	Are these like genuine answers, or are you just kind of trolling?
	These are genuine answers.
	Okay.
	So just, okay.
	I'll just max it out then.
	Will you be better looking at 105 versus now at 25?
	Probably not.
	Okay, so where's your peak then?
	85.
	Your peak is 85.
	Okay.
	Gotcha.
	No, I'm not trolling.
	I just.
	So just to be clear, you genuinely think that you'll be better looking in 60 years' time at 85?
	I'm just built different.
	Are you saying you're transgender?
	No, I'm literally saying I'm built different.
	Like I'm just made out of a different material.
	Are you saying you're trans?
	No, what?
	I said a different material.
	Okay, so you're not trans then?
	No.
	Okay, I don't know.
	And...
	Okay, you said you were built different.
	You're clearly trolling, though.
	I mean, come on.
	85, that's your going to be.
	Okay, maybe like 45.
	Okay, whatever.
	Well, what am I supposed to say?
	I don't know.
	Like, I'll keep working out.
	I mean, I work out, ate healthy.
	I assume I'll keep looking better.
	I mean, looks fade, but I don't know.
	Okay.
	You're 28.
	Will you be better looking in 10 years' time at 38?
	I'm going to say yes because I'm probably going to get a lot of surgery and work out a lot more than I am right now.
	Okay.
	And will you be better looking 48, 20 years' time?
	Depends on the upkeep.
	If I'm following through, eating healthy, working out.
	Let's assume the upkeep is good, I guess.
	Absent plastic surgery.
	Will you be better looking at 48 versus 28?
	I think there's definitely going to be a different, like, I would rather be 28 than 48, even with plastic surgery.
	So I guess a no.
	But I would say yes for 10 years plus.
	So 38, yes, 48, no.
	Okay, and then are you better looking now at 28 than you were at 18?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Jim Bob, you're 44, better looking in 10 years' time at 28.
	Yeah, I'm going to be super.
	Mary, can you start pulling up the Discord?
	Have you been doing it?
	Okay, it's the Discord, the research tab.
	Start pulling up the age advance and the gender swaps.
	I'm going to be ripped in 10 years.
	Okay.
	Actually, you typically don't ask this question of the men because they don't give like Arsler answers.
	But Jay Dyer, would you think you'll be better looking in 10 years' time, 20 years' time?
	Ponytail.
	We age pretty well, so I would say I'll probably look about this thing.
	There you go.
	All right.
	Okay.
	Do you have those pulled up?
	So what we've.
	Let's see about that.
	JJ, thank you for the super chat.
	Appreciate it.
	I'll do a couple quick shouts.
	Guys, Venmo Cash App.
	If you want 100% of your contribution to go towards the podcast, that's whatever podcast.
	Lindsay, thank you for the $20 on Venmo.
	Really appreciate it.
	Also, guys, if you're enjoying the stream, like the video.
	TTS is 200.
	Read is 100.
	That's through streamlabs.com slash whatever.
	Also, if you're go to twitch.tv slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow and a prime sub if you have one.
	Also join our Discord, discord.gg slash whatever.
	And then shop.whatever.com if you want to get yourself some merch.
	Also, big labia matter.
	That's important, I guess.
	Okay, I'm just waiting on the age advancements.
	We'll actually just wait until the, yeah, I'll wait a little bit until she's, we have everybody back at the table.
	Well, is big labia like an actual thing?
	Like, what do you, like, I have no idea, like, I don't know, like, what is it?
	Educate me while, you know, no one's here.
	So I guess there's innies and outies, and there's midis.
	There's all kinds of variation in between.
	And this is like an old school feminist talking point, although I don't really hear it that much anymore with the increase in like pro-surgery feminism, which is kind of interesting.
	But yeah, essentially there's this talking point that depictions and like pornographic material always have these like perfect, perfectly manicured vaginas, basically, which is just not how I think it's like 50% of women have Audis, so to speak.
	And I don't think people should be shamed for their genitalia and whether you're man or woman, but specifically when it comes to women on this topic, like they're shamed.
	You know, you'll hear terms like beef curtains, wizard sleeve, RBs, meat, meat used quite a bit.
	So I'm against it.
	And yeah.
	I guess when you phrase it like that, big labias matter.
	Big labias do matter.
	So it's, yeah.
	Big labia, you know what?
	The thing is, though, all labias can't matter until big labias matter.
	Excuse me.
	So there is that.
	Okay.
	We're still waiting for her to come back, so I'll just get into notes.
	We have some notes from you, Charlie.
	You said you were one time you were on a date with a guy who was an influencer.
	He took you out on a date, and he was live streaming your date twice or date?
	Oh, so you went on two dates with me?
	So he asked me out on a date and I said, yeah, sure.
	This was like when me and my fiancé, we weren't like together because we didn't want to make LDR work yet at this point.
	But long story short is he hits me up and he's like, hey, let's go on a date.
	So I was like, yeah, sure.
	So he sets up a day, sets up the time, sets up when he's going to pick me up.
	It's all great.
	And he's, so background, he's like a super big influencer.
	He picks me up.
	We go to the location.
	And while he's driving, he's like saying, like, doing Twitch stuff, like the stuff like Twitch people do, like, I don't know, Twitch, like, give me like 20 bucks or something and I'll say this to her or something like that.
	And so it was just like, obviously, not real or whatever.
	And he's, we're together at the table and we start talking and now it's becoming like an actual date, but it's still being live streamed.
	But it's a genuine date, it feels like.
	And then I just asked him, I said, do you ever do things for fun?
	That's what I said to him.
	Like, do you ever genuinely do things not for the views, not for the subs, not for the money?
	But do you just do things for fun to be present in the moment and not feel like you have to put up a front, this like front for people?
	And he didn't give me a really good answer.
	It was like, I don't remember the answer.
	It was like a wishy-washy answer.
	And so I got up, I paid for my drink and my meal and I left.
	How did you garnish a date with the big influencer?
	How did that all unfold?
	To be honest, I didn't know he was an influencer until he followed me and I followed him back and I saw that he had actually a really big following.
	Why did he follow you?
	Because we met on a, well, we started chatting on a dating app.
	Oh, it was a dude.
	Yeah, no, like we met on an app.
	It was just his first name.
	It was just personal pictures of him.
	I didn't really, I started low-key recognizing him from like the old like Vine era.
	And then I can't.
	I'm not really.
	I don't do that.
	I don't get to tell.
	So, but you asked if he does anything for fun.
	He had no answer.
	And then you walked out after paying for your drink.
	I'm curious, though, is there anything wrong with not doing anything for fun?
	Like maybe you're just working so hard that one day you can support a family.
	No, not even like honestly, like my real answer is like, no, there's nothing wrong.
	Some people just, like for me, for example, I'm an EMT.
	Like, I'm going to be real with you.
	We don't get paid shit.
	I do auditions when I have time and I try to, you know, write my own scripts and produce them.
	But like, at the end of the day, I end up having to pull five to six day work weeks just to survive, just have a roof over my head.
	So I sympathize with people that they can't do anything fun because it's either too expensive or just they have to work so much to make ends meet.
	I get that.
	But when you're somebody like him who I get it, influencing is like his job, but can you maybe put the phone down for just an hour and just be present for once and just show me your authentic self?
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I was just thinking, like, I don't have anything against fun or anything, but maybe some men just operate from a paradigm of self-sacrifice and part of that self-sacrifice.
	He was not a traditional man.
	Like, like, like to just, and he was definitely very modern, as like very modern in the sense that you guys have described.
	Okay.
	Here we're going to do the, so here's what we're going to do.
	We have put every single person here on the panel through an AI and we've we've aged, advanced all of you.
	Some of you said you're going to be better looking in 10, 20, 30 years' time, et cetera, et cetera.
	So we've put you through AI and we're going to see if it's true.
	Go ahead, pull it up.
	Oh, my goodness.
	Oh, you're so cute.
	Try to eat cookies.
	Yeah, that's going to be the grandma I'm going to be.
	All right.
	Wow.
	Okay, nice.
	Yeah, that's the same thing.
	It's always the same.
	Old lady though, creeping in on the last image every time.
	Where did these guys?
	I think they're pretty cute.
	I don't know.
	Okay, let's go next.
	There's no way that's just 10 years.
	That is not just a 10 years.
	It could be.
	I mean, if you drink and smoke heavily, then maybe.
	That's true.
	After my severe crack addiction in the next 10 years, that will be.
	It could.
	It might happen.
	All right, next.
	Oh, that's hard to look at.
	I don't know.
	So, how do you feel about that?
	Disgusted.
	Disgusted?
	Okay, all right.
	You ready?
	All right.
	Oh, that's not bad.
	I look cute.
	Hair is luscious.
	Took some MILF.
	Oh, Jesus.
	Okay.
	There we go.
	All right.
	Next.
	I look fucking cool.
	I don't care what anyone says.
	I look real.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Let's do.
	Oh.
	Oh, Lord.
	What do you think?
	Yeah.
	She looks cute.
	Into the mic if you can, please.
	No surgery done.
	No surgery done.
	Next.
	Oh, it's the same lady, though.
	Overtime.
	Jim Bob.
	Yeah, it's just a curmudgeon.
	Get off my arm.
	Get off my couch.
	Yeah, angry.
	All right, next.
	I think, was that your wife that just left at that?
	I think she is.
	I think she just chuckled a little bit.
	To future.
	Is that the pink down your forehead?
	There you go.
	All right.
	Next.
	Oh, okay.
	All right.
	Felicity back there.
	Next.
	What the fuck is that?
	What was this?
	That's just like a headshot.
	Make it smaller.
	Oh, wait.
	I know where.
	Okay.
	So this is actually, this is like from 10 plus years ago.
	I was in Amsterdam doing a promo for Bad Grandpa, the jackass presents Bad Grandpa with Johnny Knoxville.
	And they put like, they turned me into an old man.
	Oh, that's actually prosthetic and makeup?
	Prosthetic.
	That's a real deal.
	It wasn't, they didn't put like those, the, you know, it was like a 30-minute makeup job, so it's not like the crazy, like full-on prosthetics, but yeah, they did that.
	So is there next or is that?
	The middle one look kind of looks like an arrest photo.
	Like Kevin Spacey did something terrible.
	Yeah, you know.
	That's actually the age one, though.
	That middle one's pretty, you know.
	Yeah, that's crazy.
	That's young.
	That's a 10-year-old photo, though.
	10-plus-year-old.
	Damn.
	Shit.
	Back when you were youthful.
	That was actually not a tub of lard.
	All right.
	Next.
	That was it.
	Do we have the gender swaps?
	All right.
	Keep an eye on those.
	Brian, were you popular in high school, like when you were younger?
	Like, what was your archetype?
	Yeah.
	My high school.
	Your high school.
	Yeah.
	What were you?
	I was a sigma.
	You were an athlete.
	I was a learner.
	Were you a nerd or like a kid?
	Were you an athlete?
	No.
	Sigma male crime set, yo.
	What was my archetype?
	Shit.
	I mean, I wasn't like a jock.
	I think I was like a normal.
	You're just the normie.
	I was like a normal kid.
	Maybe like a little just doing my own thing, though.
	Okay.
	I didn't have like a fen group.
	I guess I kind of was a sigma, actually.
	But I was just doing my own thing.
	I was over high school, though, by junior year.
	What about you, Jay?
	Were you a skater boy?
	He was a.
	No, I was a wittyist.
	I was popular.
	Oh, popular?
	Yeah.
	He was a legend in high school.
	When I was in high school, I heard about him.
	Did you actually?
	Yeah.
	No.
	That's how much of a legend Jay was.
	Where did you go to high school?
	Tennessee.
	Okay, we heard about him.
	I heard about him and I wasn't.
	About him and got him.
	He was a big deal.
	His reputation.
	Through the biggest ragers.
	Yeah.
	Anyways, we're still waiting on the gender swaps.
	Did those come through?
	Yeah, right.
	Okay, you got all of them, or you still need to.
	Okay, perfect.
	So, guys, for this next segment, we've swapped your gender.
	All of y'all are men.
	Well, you guys are women.
	Right, you guys have changed to women.
	And the question is: would you date the male version of you?
	Oh, no.
	Or do you find them attractive or whatever?
	Go ahead.
	Looks like one of the bee gees.
	I know.
	Whoa.
	If he's still.
	Were they the falsetto guy?
	Yeah.
	I started a joke.
	Would you date the male version of you?
	He looks nice.
	He's a little too nice, though.
	Yeah, you know what I mean?
	Isn't he nice?
	Yeah.
	Hey, girl, read my feminist essay.
	Do you want to study gender studies together?
	What's that thing from Zoolander, the blue steel?
	Is that what you're doing there?
	Oh, am I?
	You're kind of doing blue steel.
	Here, do it to the camera right now, the blue steel.
	How do you do it?
	Yeah, there it is.
	All right.
	So would you know?
	Is that a no or yes?
	He seems like he'd be a good friend.
	Yeah, friends.
	Friends.
	He's a brave, decent man.
	He's a pioneer.
	All right.
	Next.
	Whoa.
	That looks like that looks like my brother.
	I generally don't date white men, actually.
	So not super my preference.
	You generally, before your husband, did you.
	My husband's not white.
	But you dated.
	I did one like you like Asian guys or?
	Yeah.
	Just usually not white.
	Also, that looks like my brother.
	That's your brother.
	That would make me really uncomfortable just dating.
	So I wouldn't date him if you were single.
	I mean, he's cute.
	He's a good-looking guy.
	The stuff looks great.
	I just see my wonderful raging gay brother, so it just feels a little bit.
	Next.
	Wait, did we skip one?
	I think we skipped one.
	You might have heard me.
	I don't know, but ew.
	Ew?
	Did you say ew?
	What a dork you are.
	Okay, here.
	Fix it.
	You wouldn't do it?
	Can I see it again?
	What if he question for you?
	I mean, no, but question.
	I want to see the question, though.
	He is the roughest ever.
	Like, he'll.
	He's signed me up.
	But he's just so weak, he can't leave a bruise.
	Damn.
	But he's trying.
	Okay.
	Then he's not the roughest.
	I don't know.
	He's the roughest.
	Do you have it?
	The Hina, yeah.
	Okay.
	Wow.
	What the?
	Would you date the male version of you?
	Oh, so bad.
	You wouldn't.
	You wouldn't do it?
	No, I wouldn't do it.
	If you had to pick between one of them, he looks like he's on something on this thing.
	He kind of looks like he's like full-on crackhead.
	He looks like a Titan from Attack on Titan.
	Dude, that's so bad.
	Looks like he just glides up to you.
	You're like, how did you get here so quickly?
	On Wheelie Zoom.
	Sneaks up on you.
	Next.
	Oh, we did.
	Leave it here for a sec.
	He looks like the guy from my Carly.
	Who's the guy in a Carly?
	Why'd you look at me?
	I have no idea.
	He looks like Freddy.
	I wonder if what we have to do for these, because it keeps the same jaw structure typically, is we have to masculinize the face a little bit on these.
	So it's kind of a lighter.
	So it's a little more fair because if you just take a woman's like facial structure and you just, I don't know.
	Maybe it needs more masculine.
	Whatever that word is.
	Okay.
	Next.
	Ugh.
	Wow.
	You know, I heard just lost some of your head.
	Your whole skull's gone.
	Would you date the male version of you?
	He's really smart, though.
	Don't worry.
	I don't know.
	But he looks like he'd be like my DoorDasher.
	Yeah.
	Damn.
	Wow, that was kind of racist.
	No, that's not racist.
	I'm just saying he looks like he'd be.
	Did you look a little Mexican?
	Are you trying to say that?
	I am Mexican.
	I know.
	He does look like a DoorDasher.
	But your implication seems a little bit different.
	I don't even know what to say to that.
	But why did you immediately go to Mexican?
	Why did you?
	Yeah.
	Why did you?
	Why enjoy that Mexican?
	Why did that matter?
	Why would you assume it's a DoorDasher who's Mexican?
	I just said DoorDasher.
	You added the Mexican.
	I mean, honestly, yeah, I did just say DoorDasher.
	So explain your psyche.
	Yeah, I would love to know.
	it just seems kind of like you see a brown person and you just i am a brown person i know i know but you that's crazy Yeah.
	He's on the defensive.
	No, he's asking why you generalize a Mexican.
	That was probably a matter of fact.
	She said DoorDasher.
	She didn't say Mexican.
	Do you think most DoorDashers are Mexican?
	Is there any racism?
	No.
	Just most of them in LA have a beard and have like slick back hair.
	Doesn't necessarily mean that it's because they're Mexican.
	And if it did, I am Mexican.
	I'm half Mexican.
	So it's like.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So you guessed right, but like you guessed right that I was Mexican.
	So it does look like a DoorDasher.
	Yeah.
	Looks like somebody I'd see like DoorDashing.
	But he seems like a nice guy.
	He does seem like a really nice guy.
	Too nice.
	Very nice.
	I don't know if I'm not.
	All right.
	Next.
	Wait, we missed.
	Honestly, he looks really good.
	I don't trust that woman, though.
	That's a succubus, that's like, come here, don't worry.
	That's crazy.
	She looks really, yeah.
	I think that was probably the best word.
	Janina.
	Very handsome woman there.
	Get ready for Janina.
	Jemima.
	Oh, they didn't send it last time.
	Okay, maybe we're waiting.
	We're waiting.
	We definitely need the gender swap.
	time being though, let's do the rest.
	Give us, oops.
	Shit.
	Here we go.
	F11.
	I look like my dad a little bit.
	That looks like the most believable, though.
	You look like you kind of look like Jim from American Pie.
	I don't know who that is.
	Just a teeny bit.
	I don't know.
	All right.
	Would you date him?
	No.
	No?
	He looks Italian.
	Latino.
	What if he was like, oh my God, your singing career is so important?
	I would be like, thank you.
	That's so sweet of you.
	That's so sweet of you.
	No, thank you.
	No?
	I said that was so sweet of you.
	What if he was an old school traditional guy and he looked like that?
	And he was like, really, he wanted to marry you and have kids.
	But he was like, oh my God, I'm so happy for your singing career.
	And he said it just like that, too.
	What if he's like, your voice is the world?
	Your voice is my world.
	Would you then marry him?
	What?
	So tough.
	Wait, can you here?
	Think of a male celebrity that you're like, that's my level.
	What do you mean, that's my level?
	Yeah, you know, like Jake Chillenhall or weird.
	Celebrity crush or celebrity?
	Like Leonardo DiCaprio.
	He's a town.
	He's so cool.
	Can you say it again?
	The question.
	Like celebrity crush or somebody that I would want that you feel would be like the same caliber as me?
	Same league.
	Celebrity.
	Like looks-wise.
	It doesn't have to, I'm horrible with names.
	Ben Diesel.
	That's who you're talking about.
	Ben Diesel.
	Bill Cosby.
	Bill Cosby.
	I'm good.
	Bill Cosby.
	Wait, is this hypothetical?
	She's already made it.
	She's already doing it.
	I think it was a question for Amy, not for you too.
	She's famous.
	No, no, it's just right now.
	Right now.
	Well, you need a little more guidance in answering questions.
	Typically.
	Thank you.
	Yeah, we're helping you out here.
	A lot of help.
	Again, off the top of my head, I don't know.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I answered it.
	Oh, off the top of your head?
	Yeah, I don't.
	I'm horrible with the names.
	Maybe I could think of some.
	Brad Pitt when he was young, gur.
	I think he still looks good now.
	No, he's still a good-looking guy.
	Oh, she would if she got Brad Pitt now.
	Count your blessing.
	Very Italian-looking, though.
	Pull up a picture.
	Little girly.
	Danny DeVito, Italian.
	Pull up a picture.
	I don't know who that is.
	You don't have Danny DeVito?
	I'm Latina.
	P. Diddy.
	What the f.
	Lil Wayne.
	No.
	Cristiano Ronaldo.
	Is he a black?
	I think that's type.
	It's not Italian Portuguese, but that's it.
	But I say, like, at the league, he looks like so perfect, like, like the squid word perfect.
	Like, that's too much.
	Too much.
	Yeah, that's too pretty.
	You're more of a messy girl.
	Yeah, I would say so.
	Yeah.
	But when I say messy, like more, not messy.
	Disheveled man.
	Not perfect.
	No, he's not like a shit.
	So messy.
	Yeah, a little messy.
	No, a messy.
	Sure.
	Actually, yes, that's a great.
	I would say messy.
	He's like 4'11.
	No, shot.
	I think he pretty much is so.
	No shot.
	Is he tiny?
	He's a tiny little guy.
	He's a shorter guy, I think.
	But he makes up for it with his left.
	Yeah, the cook, the kick.
	His exceptional that thing.
	Okay, all right.
	Do we have the rest?
	Yeah.
	Let's pull him up.
	There's Jim Bob next.
	Oh, wow.
	Wait, you became mixed race.
	I became a total cracker.
	Like a meth head.
	I look like a meth chick.
	Would you guys date them?
	No, I would get away from her.
	She looks like a meth head.
	Ron.
	Next.
	Oh, what the fuck?
	That's the worst one of you, Felicity, I've ever seen.
	That's some like murder status.
	Yeah, that guy's that guy's very.
	We lost it.
	We don't know where the good one is.
	It's like, where were you?
	Next.
	Where were you?
	Okay.
	Make it bigger.
	I look like Marilyn Manson on the far right.
	You're gone.
	The left one's really cute, though.
	She's super cute.
	Honestly.
	I look bad.
	No, you look really good.
	You date women, so I mean, would you smash?
	I would, yeah.
	Okay, nice.
	There you go.
	The left one?
	I feel so good.
	Oh, I was saying Brian's gender-bent version.
	No, I know the left version.
	The van soccer mom or the one that's a little maybe didn't make that many good choices.
	I would agree.
	She's a van soccer mom who probably at one point was goth.
	Oh, yes.
	Very girl next door.
	I like that.
	I agree with your assessment.
	Okay, so going back to you, Charlie, your show notes here, you wrote body counts and how men are praised for high ones and women are shamed for high ones.
	So you think it's like a double standard kind of thing?
	I do.
	I see that as a double.
	I personally don't think I have a high body count, if you want me to be completely honest with you.
	But what is that?
	Like, okay, but what counts, I guess?
	Is like, are we talking like sex, like sex, or are we talking about like any sexual interaction I've ever had?
	P and the V or V on V. Okay, I guess.
	Like 13 in my entire life.
	13.
	13 guys?
	Because you were bias.
	What did you say?
	You're biased.
	Oh, okay.
	Are you breaking it down by gender?
	I think six women, like maybe seven guys.
	I think what is the threshold for two women having sex?
	Is it scissoring?
	Is that the threshold?
	Maybe.
	Or is it oral sex?
	I don't know what the threshold would be.
	Sex.
	Close off.
	What is sex between two women?
	Someone coming.
	But you could come like through oral sex, right?
	Or like digital.
	I think I was thinking more, like when I answered that question, I was thinking more of the guys, I guess.
	Because like, I don't know, sometimes in the past, I'd make out with a guy and like, that's it.
	And I'd leave it at that.
	I don't know.
	But what, yeah, what does constitute two women?
	I'm genuinely curious.
	I think an orgasm.
	Yeah.
	And that can be oral, that can be fingers, that can be scissoring.
	That can be a matter of money.
	Wait, the question: if the, what if, is it, wait, hold on.
	Do both, have both people then had sex if only like one person is fingering the other woman.
	So like, only she comes and only she's been fingered.
	Well, that's not normally the case.
	Usually both of them come in this case.
	Right, but I'm just exploring it, I guess.
	So I, yeah, sure, you could both be like mutual masturbation.
	Well, I guess my long story short is that I've noticed that a lot of men that, you know, like in their male spaces, you know, when it's comes to like quote unquote, like, you know, locker room talk, they'll like high-five each other and be like, yo, you know, you've took high body count.
	I've had sex with like 20 girls, 30 girls.
	It's like different.
	But then like women seem to be like shamed for their high body counts.
	I think I was watching something that made me think of this though is that I was watching an old episode of whatever, and there was this one guy.
	He said something along the lines of he's a born-again Christian.
	His body count was about 25 to 30, born-again Christian, and then asked if he would be with a woman who's a born-again Christian, and her body count was about the same.
	And he was basically no, was long story short, no.
	And so that makes me think that, like, wow, so if he's born again and deserves, it is, is deserved, I'm not religious, but if he's born again by his metrics and he's getting a second chance that now he can live this life, why couldn't she, I guess, is what I'm saying.
	It's like, and genuinely, genuinely, like both of them, you know?
	And so that's kind of like, why is she permanently spoiled?
	And then he changes his ways and he's like reborn again, so to speak.
	Sure.
	I mean, I can answer this a couple different ways.
	I would say, first off, you have people's individual preferences.
	But when it comes to like a woman who's previously promiscuous or whatever, even a Christian man who he himself was previously promiscuous, former promiscuous people can be saved by Christ.
	Christian men do not need to then disregard the accompanying baggage that might come with somebody's past, even if they've been saved by Christ.
	I think these are two, these are completely compatible.
	Granted, I'm not, I'm not really, I'm not taking that position in terms, like I'm not Christian.
	No, I know.
	But I'm just saying my understanding is like just because you're a Christian man, that does not mean you're like you're compelled to date somebody who's like a former prostitute for you.
	I can agree with that.
	There's another element though, too, is that women are the gatekeepers of sex and men aren't.
	So because they're the gatekeepers of sex, the value placed on when they open the gates is seen as more valuable than when women, than men open the gates.
	For instance, it's really easy for women to just go out and have sex with someone.
	It's harder for men to get that, right?
	So the women get to decide.
	Like, oh, I'll sleep with you, I'll sleep with you.
	So in a sense, it's almost like that's a woman's leverage.
	And it points to, wow, if that's your leverage, I would argue that's a really good reason to preserve it and to use that leverage appropriately.
	And I think the best way to use it appropriately is to reserve your virtue as hard as it might be today in exchange for a man that deserves it.
	And I think that's a good benefit.
	That's a good, it's basically like a cost analysis in a sense.
	Whereas the man, if he's promiscuous, the woman is not judging that as the virtue.
	They're judging their ability to lead, maybe even their aggression, their ability to provide and protect.
	And in a weird way, I don't condone promiscuity with men, but in an interesting way, their promiscuity might even be aligned with their male aggression in pursuit.
	It might actually be seen as like an attraction in some weird way, whereas it's not flipped the same way with women.
	To say it's unfair, I actually don't think it's unfair.
	I think it's completely consistent with the nature of men and the nature of women.
	The thing, the way you're describing it, though, where it's like, oh, men can be given this little bit of leeway, that's kind of your explaining literally a double standard.
	It's not the same standard.
	A double standard would assume that it should be an equal standard.
	But I'm saying it's a double standard that women are the gatekeepers of sex.
	So that's not an equal standard with men either, right?
	Going back to what I was trying to say is that it's kind of like sort of a double standard.
	Being in like the military and stuff, I've heard and like, obviously, like men, they say crazy things in the military.
	I mean, everyone has thick skin, but I've always heard the old adage when you see like guys talking in the military.
	They say like, oh, you know, a key that can pick open many locks is like a really good key, but a lock that opens the many keys is a really shitty lock.
	But I would like to flip that back and say, well, if a toothbrush washes many mouths, isn't that a shitty fucking toothbrush?
	Yeah, I actually agree with you.
	There's a bunch of analogies that you could point towards men.
	Like I've heard the pencil sharpener one, for example, like, oh, how does the pencil sharpener one go?
	A really good pencil sharpener can sharpen many pencils, but like a pencil that is, fuck, how does it go?
	I don't know, just whatever, the reverse.
	Like, so I don't think that analogy is like the Keen Locke analogy.
	I mean, it's helpful in a way, but like women can, people who are debating against that position can just like forward analogies that are like, oh, okay, men who are promiscuous, like they're well, I guess I'm talking more, I'm referencing more like the average everyday Joe.
	Like you, you seem to have more sound reasoning.
	Like you're able to actually explain these things.
	And I'm like actually listening and I'm able to actually take away things that you're saying.
	But a lot of men, it just ends there.
	Like that's it.
	Like it's just a guy who can sleep with a lot of people.
	But they don't know why.
	Yeah, they don't know why.
	It's just the way it is that a lot that a guy can sleep with a lot of women and he's like a champion.
	Like, bro, you got game.
	But a woman who sleeps with a bunch of men is just a slut.
	I'd like to answer that in a couple of ways.
	So to the, I think, the point that you just made as to the optics of it, how it's viewed.
	So I mean, it's actually just factually true that in order for a man to be able to sleep with a bunch of women, that actually takes some degree of skill.
	Any woman, and we can prove this, any woman, if she was so inclined, could be a slut, could be a massive slut, could fuck three new guys a day.
	Any woman has that ability.
	Of course, most women absolutely don't want to do that at all.
	But any single woman, if she was so inclined, without really having to do anything, could just fuck three guys, just go on a dating app.
	I really can't make that same claim towards men.
	Like even if a guy wanted desperately to be a slut and fuck three different women a day, no.
	Unless they were like super high status.
	If it was like a top tier, really top tier guy, they can – even then it's like – A Q Kepner sort of.
	So yeah, like you're going to have to be like really, really, really, really good looking or have some sort of status, musician, athlete, actor, for example.
	Most, for example, an average woman, though, if we compare like for like, an average woman could fuck 10 guys in a day.
	Easy.
	If she want, I mean, I don't know if it would be easy, but she could do it, right?
	An average guy cannot fuck 10 women in a day.
	I mean, he's lucky to get like.
	That's kind of like a blanket statement, though.
	Do you disagree?
	I do disagree because.
	So you think generally, generally speaking, there's maybe like certain outliers there, but generally speaking, you think like average guys have access to hookup culture the same way that average women.
	Oh, no, no, no, no.
	I do agree with you.
	I do agree with you there.
	I'm just saying that like if a man does prepare just a little bit, I've seen men have rosters where they can fuck like three girls in one day.
	Like three is a number I threw out on.
	Sure, I'm not disputing that there are men who have rosters and maybe they're not like 10 out of 10 supermodels.
	But generally speaking, I think if we look, if we just pull the average guy, like, for example, if you had to bet your life on, like, okay, you're going to send out either an average woman or an average man onto the street and your life depends on it, and they have to like, try to fuck three different people that day.
	Who are you going to like pick to save your life?
	No, you know, and i'll i'll backpedal on, i'll say I do agree with you.
	You're right.
	It is easier as a woman to get a um, a hookup, more than like, if a guy was out to go out to do the same thing.
	I've seen this a lot because, you know, I have a lot of friends in different places, military people, emt people, acting community like.
	I just have a lot of friends.
	I'm specifically thinking of a couple who decided to open up their marriage and the guy made a hinge or whatever, and he made a bumble, and she made a hinge and she made a bumble, and they're both very average looking people and she was getting a lot of clicks, she was getting a lot of swipes, she was getting a lot of interactions and he was getting none, and so I guess my point is, is that, and it was his idea to open up the marriage?
	Wait, so wouldn't this be further proof of our position?
	No, i'm agreeing.
	I'm saying yes like yes, I do agree, I agree yes, because i've seen this actually happen in real life.
	Yeah, so i'm saying yes, I agree, and this is why, and like, she's actually like, and then he wanted to close the marriage back and it's kind of like a pandora's box where like, you open it and it can't be closed again, because now she's realizing that she actually has a lot of leverage and he doesn't.
	Did she smash a bunch of dudes?
	Or, to be honest no, she didn't, she did let them, she did let them close back the marriage and they were done and like that was it?
	Like they never still together.
	They are actually okay.
	But when it comes to the double standard, I think the other thing I just wanted to bring up is is that, even so, there's a component of Like, okay, it's easier for women to get laid.
	So that's why, like, there's some degree of skill involved when it comes to, you know, men being able to procure sex.
	I think the other thing, though, is women's own preferences when it comes to, like, women are a little more lenient when it comes to promiscuity in men, insofar as if a man has a high body count, but he's otherwise going to be a good partner, like, men are going to overlook that a little more than I think, or excuse me, women are going to overlook that more than men are.
	Men seem to weigh promiscuity or past promiscuity or body count more than women.
	So, for example, what's an example I could give?
	Let's say you have a 35-year-old successful man who's slept with 30 women.
	Well, then this gets into age.
	So, I don't know if this is a perfect example, but like a 35-year-old woman is going to look at him and be like, okay, that's fine.
	Then you have a 35-year-old guy who's looking at a 35-year-old woman who's great, whatever, whatever, but she has a body count of 30.
	He's typically, well, then this gets into like other components here.
	So, I don't think this is a fair example, but most guys are going to pick like the younger, more attractive woman who has a lower body count than the older, more successful woman who has a higher body count.
	While that's true, like you're absolutely right that I've seen this happen time and time again to where I can say this is anecdotally true, I will say that there's a caveat as to why men pick younger women.
	And I would say that a lot of men pick younger women because they're a lot more, in their eyes, pliable, able to be molded into the perfect woman that they want.
	And they play these manipulation games that a lot of women their own age would see right through.
	I've done it.
	Not necessarily, but I'll say that like there have been times where I was like 22 and I'd be dating a guy that's like 35.
	And I've matured a lot in those last few years, and now I'm 25.
	You know, as much as someone can mature in those three years in the lines of work that I've done, to where nowadays I see right through it.
	But when I was 22, I didn't.
	And then I think, imagine if I was 35 and I saw this 35-year-old man, you know, doing his thing.
	I would see right through it.
	So I guess that's just what I'm trying to do.
	Well, there's also just like just the physicality, like fertility, youth, obviously, that would play into why men gravitate toward youthful.
	Wait, I mean, I have a question, though, just to address your specific point of your saying, okay, men go for younger women because they're more pliable.
	So essentially, you're saying they're more agreeable.
	Not necessarily.
	Yeah, yes.
	And like, yes, generally speaking, men prefer more agreeable women.
	I think anybody would choose a more agreeable partner.
	Like, if the, like, I'm not going to pick a guy who's a stick in the mud.
	I'm not going to pick, I mean, I'm bisexual.
	So I'm not going to pick a girl or a guy who's a stick in the mud.
	Are you just trying to argue, though, like, oh, men are manipulative and take advantage of it?
	No, not at all.
	I've dated like really good men who are genuinely, really high-quality men.
	And for some reason or another, it didn't work out.
	Not at all.
	I'm not like a man hater or like a misandrist at all.
	Do you think that in some cases it's actually the best thing for a man to form a malleable woman into a better woman?
	I think a man shouldn't only specifically go for younger women if his reason is to form her and shape her.
	He should probably like see a woman maybe like, I mean, people have their preferences.
	Honestly, people have their preferences, but I'm saying that I think if you're only pursuing younger women because they're more malleable, they're pliable, they can be molded like clay into the perfect woman for you.
	I think that's a little manipulative.
	But would you say that that's like the primary reason men date younger women?
	Yeah, I mean, no, There's sometimes there's just that connection.
	Like, I mean, there have been times where I dated older men and there's just connections right there.
	Like, I can tell it's not because I'm a younger woman that he wants to like.
	What if they're just hot?
	That's what I'm saying.
	That's it.
	I mean, he's not, it's not some like manipulation.
	And then there could be a counter argument here.
	Like, so I think, for example, if I wanted to get something out of a woman, I could probably pretty easily manipulate a woman who's like 35 and doesn't have kids.
	And she's like, really, really, really like she's like, okay, here's my last go to get a relationship.
	I could just say, well, I could really easily manipulate this like woman who's like really, really, really desperate for a relationship.
	Whereas an 18-year-old woman, 19, 20, 21-year-old woman who's like exceptionally attractive and she has like a plethora of options that she probably won't have when she's 35.
	Because I think optionality tends to give you like you're much more, what's the correct word?
	When you have a bunch of options, you're much more, I think you're more discerning when it comes to which option you're going to pick.
	So, and also, I think as a guy, for you to get with a younger woman, you got to bring quite a bit more to the table, I think.
	But in any case, I think a woman who's like 35 and doesn't have kids and is like, fuck, I need to have kids, she's a mark for manipulation.
	I will say I agree with you absolutely 1,000% on that because again, I have real life examples in my life.
	I used to be roommates with a woman.
	She's amazing, by the way, but she's super liberal, LGBTQ pro activist.
	Like she's a really, and she's a really kind human being.
	And she's currently dating a guy who he kind of sprung it up on her, but like he presented himself as like a politically moderate human.
	And then maybe three months in, he's like, I'm a Trump supporter.
	And honestly, the guy's hot.
	He's a hot guy.
	But it's kind of like, she's kind of like, well, I'm 37 and I feel like I have to settle.
	Like, so I'm saying that I agree with you.
	I've seen it happen.
	So where it's like, her morals is like, I'm a super liberal woman, but because I'm aging, I'm going to probably settle with someone whose ideas and whose values don't necessarily coincide with mine.
	Which if you ask me, that's a recipe for disaster, but I'm not going to judge her.
	Yeah.
	And just final thing on the point I was just making now about like how younger women have far more optionality.
	I also think just because of like life stage, at least if it's a more like modern, like woman who's not, you know, there's like traditional women who are like 20 who are like really pressed to get married and start a family young.
	Although I'd say the majority of young women today aren't operating in that paradigm and that dynamic.
	So like a young woman who's not really pressed to like start a family or have kids and she's got a bunch of optionality.
	She's got a bunch of men her own age who want to sleep with her.
	She's got a bunch of men who are older who are like want to take her on trips and do all this stuff.
	I actually think she's far harder to lock down than like the 35 year old woman whose optionality is dwindling and she's like pressed to have a family and kids.
	So when it comes to manipulation, I just make the argument that she's actually easier to manipulate.
	Because if I'm starting, if I'm doing some bullshit with a 20-year-old who's got like every dude wants to fuck her and she's really good looking and she's not like super pressed to be in like some super serious long-term relationship, yeah, she can just dump me and move on with it and not really give a fuck.
	I want to just add something interesting there is that your roommate situation is that there is something she saw as a future and she had to make a choice, kind of a binary, one way or the other.
	Now, I guess the question is, if a woman is looking to settle down and ultimately they're looking for stability, how many times do you think they would choose the conservative traditional man over the liberal man?
	For me, it depends.
	I've met a lot of conservative men who are politically conservative, but they could not be any farther from being traditional.
	You know what I mean?
	I've seen that before.
	So if you're talking like the textbook, like traditional, hold open the door, like does all that.
	Well, let me ask you a question.
	What does the cookie cutter liberal man look like to you?
	So I can choose between the two.
	It's not, yeah, you mean as far as like their because I know what a cookie cutter conservative man looks like to me.
	Well, I would say like more men today are a little more androgynous, a little like weak, like you were explaining, like you're dating.
	Like you're like, what are you?
	What is this?
	Like in their princess.
	Yeah, and they're also like sort of like faux LARPing feminists where they're just like, you know, everything's, oh, you, whatever you want, and there's no real leadership there because they're so afraid of like violating the feminist doctrine or whatever.
	I think that kind of liberal mindset is really open.
	And let's call it broad.
	Broadness versus narrowness.
	That's the best way I could put it.
	If you find a man who's liberal, he's open.
	He's broad.
	He's open to things.
	It could go anyway.
	A traditional man, even the fake LARPing conservative you're talking about, there's many of them.
	They're still going to advocate for something a little more narrow.
	And I think the thing we're pointing at is that when it comes down to it, when the woman wakes up and she realizes there's a future and she has to choose, she's going to choose the future that's downstream from a tradition rather than downstream from what a hundred-year-old enlightenment shit show, right?
	Like liberalism.
	It's like, it's not paying off for the women at all.
	Like the whole entire structure is like collapsing and they're realizing a little too late, many of them, that, oh shit, I gotta latch onto something now.
	And unfortunately, a lot of them, it is too late because the man that they're actually looking for is already married.
	Why?
	Because the woman they're looking for was younger and willing and understood that they have to be, they're going to be mothers in this situation.
	So they have to, like Jay said, you have to start being a traditionalist.
	You have to start examining these things earlier than men have to.
	Is that a double standard?
	No, it's just the difference between men.
	Men have a longer time to find the traditional woman.
	Women have less time to find the traditional man.
	But that's all like made up.
	Like those are made up rules.
	No, it's not.
	You can find somebody.
	I've seen people who have, not I've seen personally, but you hear of people who have these marriages and their spouse dies, unfortunately.
	And then later on in life, like at 67, they find someone else and they find love.
	Like they find love with that other person.
	That's not what's in question.
	Like one instance where like spouses die and they have to find, you know, you're going to find another partner for the rest of your life.
	We're talking about these key moments for women specifically in their years of fertility, high fertility, between 20, 35, maybe 40.
	And they have, they really do.
	That ticking, that clock is real.
	That's a real thing.
	And the person that wants to act on that clock, the man, he's going to be more lean toward a traditional Christian view.
	And he's going to be looking for women who are more committed early on to the future they're living into, not as some sort of last-minute, desperate cling to a floaty device.
	Like, you know what I mean?
	Like, like when we were asking her, it's a Jay asked her, okay, so you're going to finally find the traditional man, and then you're going to be a traditionalist, like at like 45.
	When like, you know, let's say nothing works out.
	I'm not saying it will, but it's like, if it didn't work out your whole career and you started to realize at like 40, that you were like, oh, wait, maybe I maybe I should pursue being a mother.
	You'll start to think, oh, well, maybe.
	Wouldn't happen.
	Well, I'm just saying that happens all the time.
	Wait, what do you mean?
	What would not happen?
	I don't think at 40, I would start to have a revelation of like, wait, I should, I should have been a mom.
	No.
	You don't think that happens?
	No, I have, are you saying, not for me?
	Are you saying you, you know, with certainty you will have family and children?
	If I'm at my prime right now for fertility.
	Well, you're not, but okay.
	Well, at least then 10 years.
	Yes, thank you.
	Why would I, at 40, want to suddenly change my life and have a kid?
	I think that's silly.
	It's oh, I thought you were coming at it from the angle of I will definitely have kids by then, so it's not even a concern.
	No, I thought that's what you meant.
	No, no, no, no.
	I was just saying, no, I wouldn't have kids.
	I need to let the chat come through.
	Clover98 donated $200.
	Shut up gingerly in seat five.
	What is gingerly?
	The tweaker in seat three and the rest of the panel want to chat as well.
	Yo, Clover, thank you for the TTS.
	I appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	The tweaker in seat three.
	Do you want to respond to the tweaker allegations?
	What is he, maybe?
	Have you ever seen it?
	No.
	No tweaking?
	No tweaking.
	All right, zero tweaking.
	I'm saying it because of the gender swap thing.
	That's what I'm saying.
	My fingers are crossed.
	That's what it's about.
	Just a baker.
	We had Jake Burnt.
	Jay, we need you to start more shit.
	Speak up.
	We need the fire you bring to make this interesting.
	Also, stay on the come up from Ruslan to whatever to Joe Rogan.
	Next ICXC, continue spreading the Christ.
	W. Thank you, Jake.
	Appreciate your message there to Jay.
	Oh, by the way, guys, I've lowered the TTS.
	We're doing a $69 TTS.
	If you guys want to get a message in now that it's lowered a little bit, I'm going to continue on with the show notes here.
	Let's see, Charlie, you also wrote, yeah, we already talked about the double standard thing.
	You want to talk about men's mental health and the unaliving rate being a result of the rules men have put in place.
	Yeah, obviously with like my military service, I've seen people, and you also hear things, obviously, because we have the internet, is that I've seen people in my life that I knew personally take their own lives.
	And there were a lot of moments where not just me, but other, you know, other soldiers would be like, hey, is everything okay?
	And he'd kind of just be clammed up and be like, yeah, everything's fine.
	But you could tell things weren't okay.
	And honestly, when I got the email, like the mass email for our battalion that, hey, he passed away before I knew, because the subject line was like unaliving, basically.
	I honestly thought of him immediately.
	Okay.
	And it goes no matter.
	I get it.
	Somebody unalive.
	Yeah.
	And so.
	Can we get to the actual content of the conversation here?
	You said it's the result of rules men have.
	So let's discuss that.
	So men's fault, suicide.
	Oh, shit.
	Not necessarily like men's fault unaliving.
	Not necessarily like any men that are alive right now, because these rules were made before any men that are alive on this earth are alive, obviously.
	But saying that you said being a result of men have put in place.
	A lot of traditional men think like be a man, like, you know, suffer in silence, like, you know, don't like stonewall, like don't communicate your feelings, like, you know, don't cry, things like that.
	Well, I have a question for you, though.
	So if the unalive, the incidence rate of unaliving has gone up, do you think masculinity has also like gone up too?
	Or have we seen men become more feminine in the past like 50, 60 years?
	We've seen a lot more men that are okay with being feminine.
	Right, but so like, but that's not correlation either.
	Femininity, rates of femininity in men increasing, but unaliving rate.
	Okay, can you show me that?
	You're saying, like, oh, it's the, it's this, which, by the way, uh, the traditional or toxic masculinity that you're referring to has been on the decline.
	So, that which you're pointing to is the cause of the increase in men, men's unaliving rate.
	It seems like that cause has been on the decrease.
	No, I definitely see the need for masculinity.
	Like, I'm not saying, like, oh, masculinity is toxic in and of itself.
	I'm saying there are certain aspects of masculinity in which there is toxicity, like stonewalling, not communicating your feelings, not seeking therapy.
	These are all masculine things.
	I work in, I've worked only in masculine roles, and I see this time and time again.
	Where, and it's a majority of the fact that men are given from a very young age.
	And then sometimes, like in June, you see, like, men's mental health month or something like that.
	And it's like, it's that seems to be like the only month where men seem to be.
	Can I ask you a question?
	If someone unalives themselves and they're a man, do you agree that they're responding or reacting to an emotion?
	Like, what do you mean?
	Are they reacting to like an emotion?
	I mean, I'm sure that before somebody unalives themselves, there's a lot of a series of emotions that they go through.
	Emotions like, I think the world would be better off without me.
	Nobody would miss me.
	Like, things like that.
	Like, I'm sure there's a series of thoughts and emotions.
	Speak to, speak to, you said, being ruled.
	The result of the rules men have put in place.
	Yes.
	Saying the rules are that you're not allowed to talk about your feelings or cry.
	How many times?
	She's drawing out some sort of narrative that men being pent up and not crying with their therapist on the couch results in some sort of like what, like a rubber band effect, where it's like builds up and then yeah, like where it builds up and and and it and it continues until to the point where they reach a breaking point.
	I mean, but how is it the fact that the in like, like Brian said, if masculinity at its peak was before all of this stuff and there was less self-deletions, why is there more now with the increase of being emotional and more feminine?
	Because back then the statistics weren't as accurate as they are right now today, in these days, in these times.
	So you're saying the ability just to track it is the, it's getting better and more accurate.
	Yes, but even even from the point of time where we started tracking it, it's trending upwards currently.
	Yes, because i'm just curious, I actually don't know.
	No, is it per capita that it's trending up or is it just like total number, because there's also like more population?
	I think it's the per capita.
	Yeah, I actually don't think it's about emotion at all.
	I think the, I think the strongest link and I can't prove it.
	I'm just.
	I'm just uh speculating here is that men are uh, because of modernity, because of egalitarianism uh, men are not expected to uh fulfill the, the duties of men and to be drawn into work, to be drawn into labor, to be drawn into all of these masculine activities even starts early on with, with children boys, the.
	The public school system is literally crafted to shut down masculine Expression.
	And so, like, what Brian's pointing to is pretty true.
	It's like men are being feminized, if anything.
	And if you're going to try to draw a correlation between men and self-deletion, the trend would show a stronger correlate with demasculating men rather than some sort of toxic masculinity.
	But then another study would need to be conducted saying that because men are being feminized, suicide rates are going up.
	You can't just say that one is because of the other.
	No, I would, yeah, I agree.
	I wouldn't draw that strict, but I think more, it's more likely men are depressed because they're not being used fully in society, that they're not being drawn into their duties and into positions where they're used.
	Like, men respond really well to, you dude, go do this.
	Just go, you know, it's like a, it's like we're just like these kind of roaming beasts who just need to be put to work.
	And I think I would include a variable of technology, which is kind of blameless, but removing men from positions where they're constantly active and drawn into some type of role, a needed role.
	I mean, think about you're facing a society as a 25-year-old and you're looking for your wife and you're living in a society that literally says women don't need men.
	Literally, the narrative is women don't need men.
	Could I if a man is his ontology is to be needed and wanted?
	Can you imagine living in a society where the overall loudspeaker that you hear from childhood to now is you're not needed.
	Can I offer like a, I think like a joining hypothesis?
	Because I really echo a lot of what Jim is saying, but I also understand a fair bit what you're saying.
	There's really, really interesting studies on emotional expression in kids.
	So there's two ways that kids and people tend to express emotions.
	One is externalizing and one is internalizing.
	And I'm sure you're not surprised to find out boys tend to externalize more, girls tend to internalize more.
	The issue is that the way that we parent an externalizing child, so if your child gets overwhelmed and stressed, so they start throwing blocks and like kicking shit basically, they're way more likely to be punished and sent to their room.
	Whereas an internalizing child, it's very easy to comfort.
	They're crying.
	You pick them up.
	You're like, it's okay, Sophie, go back to your play.
	And so in many ways, what we do as a society, in part because of our expectations of what boys are, but also because we very much fear and resent male anger, is that we take the boy in the moment where he needs co-regulation and he needs parenting and he needs support.
	And we tell him, go to your room.
	Nobody wants to fucking seal it.
	Deal it with yourself.
	And so we have a whole bunch of boys that I would agree are increasingly being reduced out of purposelessness.
	They've been told that their proclivities like wanting to do like play violence is bad and having externalizing emotions is bad.
	But we never actually teach them how to externalize in like a healthy way, which is why most men, if they find things that help their mental health when they've been having severe issues, it's usually through like fitness and boxing, just externalizing ways of managing your emotions.
	And so I think there's kind of a duality where I think when we talk from like a feminist lens, we're like men just need to express their feelings more.
	And I'm like, well, even when they do, A, lots of women don't like it, and B, we don't like it because they'll externalize a lot of the time.
	They'll be sent to their room, they'll be told that they're bad, and we don't give them an off-ramp.
	And then on top of that, really neutral things about masculinity, like violence and rough housing and all these sorts of things, are also increasingly criminalized.
	And by criminalized, I mean this in like a pejorative way, not in like a legal way, obviously.
	And so I think what we're doing is we're setting up this catch-22 where there isn't really a direction that men can be, and the way that they often naturally want to express is bad and harmful.
	And then especially on the left, we just basically say, you've had the mic for too long, so shut the fuck up.
	We're not interested in you.
	I mean, Obama, Michelle Obama, literally told men to sit up and shut down and shut up.
	And it's just like, none of this is ever going to be.
	Ironic for a man to say that.
	Michelle Obama.
	Yeah.
	Oh, okay.
	Okay.
	I get it.
	She does have very strong arms.
	So my alternative hypothesis would be: I don't know if it's fair to say that it's expectations that men have put on men.
	I think it's expectations that came out of necessity.
	I think there's a lot of reasons why patriarchies emerge over and over.
	Were on men that all of us societally reinforce, moms, dads, etc., etc.
	I mean, absolutely.
	I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I've personally seen time and time again where a guy all bent about his frustrations about what's going on in his life, and his friend just basically tells him, man up, here's a beer, basically.
	And that's not enough.
	Sometimes that's not enough.
	It really isn't.
	It's enough for me tonight.
	You know what I'm trying to say, though, is that you're not ever, there's no one size fits all, but I'm saying that I do agree that men need to be heard.
	Men need to be listened to.
	I do agree with that.
	I'm not saying that, I'm saying that there's just for too long men have been told that they just need to take it.
	I think that's good.
	I think they should take it.
	I think you should say, man up, stop being a little bitch.
	I mean, I do that as one of them.
	They don't know how they kill each other.
	Or kill themselves.
	Unalive themselves.
	No, they don't mostly do that, though.
	I'm just saying that you can't say, like, don't talk to anybody.
	Keep it, internalize it, keep it within.
	How could you make the link, though, of teaching men to essentially overcome their emotions, overcome their perceived tribulations by being stronger and stronger?
	And then you're trying to make a link to if you teach men to overcome things, that results in them deleting themselves.
	I don't understand how you're making this jump.
	Let's just say men and women.
	Women are a lot more social.
	Women talk to each other a lot more.
	Men a lot more are more independent.
	They don't talk to each other.
	Yet you don't see women killing themselves, unaliving themselves.
	They're not as good at it.
	Unaliving themselves left and right.
	Men are better at it.
	What?
	It's like a force.
	They succeed.
	They can follow through.
	Women fail at it.
	They attempt it, but they fail more than men.
	Why is that?
	In the attempts, in the comparative analysis of attempts.
	Why is the man so successful at it?
	Like the women try, but they don't.
	Also, does therapy work?
	Like, in general?
	Therapy?
	Yes.
	Therapy works.
	In general, does therapy work?
	I mean, robustly, but I will give you a caveat.
	Therapy robustly works, by and large.
	There's a couple of caveats.
	Therapy is extremely ineffective with incels.
	Extremely.
	Incels actually seek therapy more than the general population, but the efficacy rate for them is about 10%.
	I'm not even talking about incels.
	I'm just speaking in general.
	I'm telling you, there's certain things like grief counseling or like if you're specifically trying to address maybe something specific, I guess I could see the application of therapy, but a man just going to see another man or a woman and just, here's my problems.
	Well, that's not therapy.
	It doesn't necessarily mean you have to.
	Hold on, just to be clear.
	Talk therapy is like the most popular form of therapy that there is.
	But you're describing a talk therapy that isn't even like most men, for example, tend to prefer CBT versus like talking about.
	Yeah, CBT has some merit to it, but like just talk therapy, here's talk therapy is CBT.
	CBT is the most common form of therapy, unquestionably.
	There's a new fourth wave of therapy that is getting a little bit more popular.
	That's a little bit more emotion-focused exclusively.
	Women tend to like that more.
	But CBT is currently in the practical.
	Who here is currently in therapy?
	Amazing.
	Okay, who here's ever professionally offered therapy?
	It depends on the therapy.
	And how many therapists have you had?
	Like three.
	How many therapists have you had?
	Two.
	If it's not too much to share, what issues are you guys specifically working through in therapy?
	So, the thing about therapy is a lot of people think there's a stigma, like, oh, he or she is in therapy.
	And there's that stigma that comes with it.
	But therapy doesn't just because you do therapy doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong.
	You're just paying somebody like $200 an hour to take a look at the pressure.
	Yeah, but it's not $200.
	Yeah, but can you answer my question though?
	What specifically are you working on in therapy?
	Sometimes I talk about things in my life that made me upset, for example.
	Why can't you talk to a killer?
	Here, and what's your question?
	Because I know people are, are you specifically working through something in childhood trauma?
	Okay, I think that's fair.
	I think that's fair.
	I guess the question is, though, sometimes you go to this therapy stuff.
	Has it helped you talking about it?
	Honestly, it has to be the right therapist.
	I currently have one that I stopped seeing because I agree with you.
	It's just like talking to a wall.
	And she was like, Yeah.
	And first off, I'm very sorry to hear that you went through traumatic things when you were a child.
	I think a lot of people go through that.
	Do you have you found that, and this is my experience sometimes with talking about anything that is troubling?
	I find that talking about it just makes me more upset.
	It doesn't help at all.
	It just, it's sort of, what's the word for it?
	It just sort of recycles the feelings.
	And sometimes I just, if it's something like temporary that I'm upset about, talking about it and focusing on it just makes me more upset about said thing.
	And if I'm given a day, a couple days to just not talk about it, I tend to just move on past the thing that was troubling and I'm good.
	Now I can understand perhaps with something that's like a bit more deep-seated and like, you know, you're not going to get over, you know, I'm talking about more of a minor thing, but even things that in the moment are troubling to me.
	If I just wait a week, yeah, I'm over it.
	So when, sorry, when I'm in therapy, we practice something where they, with trauma, they want you to be to feel what you felt when you had that trauma, to overcome the idea of like, I don't want to think about it, you know, hush, like it's under the rug, because you're not really working through it if you're just not talking about it and you're just putting it under the rug or hiding it.
	Talking through it and having that emotional reaction is actually helping you as a person.
	It helped me.
	It has to be the right therapist.
	Like again, if the therapist is just nodding her head or his or head, just saying yes, yes, yes, and not actually asking questions, engaging, trying to understand my perspective or even interjecting and saying, hey, like what you just said is not correct.
	Like that's cognitive behavioral therapy.
	Then there's no, it's not.
	Can I ask you more of a more of like an empirical question?
	How do you measure whether or not you've sort of worked your way through something?
	Let's say like, here's a problem in between these two things is therapy.
	And here's you, you've made your way through.
	How do you, what's the metric for you've made your way through the problem?
	There's never a way, there's never, I made a way through my problem.
	I will always live with that.
	It's unfortunate, but it's the way I am able to react to it, handle it, and talk about it.
	Do you want to know the empirical metrics that we use in the science to evaluate?
	So there's a couple of metrics that are going to be used.
	One of the most important ones is days off work.
	So one of the most important metrics for the efficacy of therapy is to see how often that person has to take off work for mental health related issues.
	So this is one of the most robust evidences for support for therapy is that people who have gone through therapy miss work less often.
	Another really good measure of therapy efficacy would be things like relationship flourishing.
	So, if they prior to therapy struggled in relationships, can't maintain them very well, and post-therapy have relationship flaresing, that's oftentimes used, and you see this robustly.
	Like, when I'm saying robustly, I mean millions, maybe billions of data points, right?
	So, this is an extremely established phenomenon that by and large therapy works.
	There are bad therapists, and there is a pathologizing of normal living that I would totally grant.
	Where people are like, I'm really sad, I need to go to therapy.
	I'm like, you could probably just talk to a friend, like you probably don't need to.
	But there are things like trauma, for example, that have very neurobiological underlyings, that have very, very well-researched protocols for addressing these things.
	And the thing that she's describing, where essentially you're calling the emotion and the memory forward and reconsolidating it, is based on hippocampal data.
	We know that when you pull a memory forward and you reform it, every time you re-experience that memory, you're recoding it with like emotional colors.
	And so, the goal of like PTSD therapy would be reduction of nightmares, reduction of days off, and reduction of flashbacks.
	And it doesn't always work.
	There are some people that it is not effective on, and there are other ways.
	But, for example, prolonged exposure is what it sounds like you're talking about, is extremely effective on average by and large.
	However, there is a caveat here, again, which is that overall, we said that therapy is slightly less effective for men.
	And I would argue that's because we approach therapy almost exclusively from a more feminine approach.
	And there can be therapies, and there are therapies that focus on more mechanical movement.
	For example, teaching men to externalize, having therapy that's focused outdoors and with movement, talking about like project-related processing.
	These things do exist and are beginning to emerge because I think men have been underserved by therapy.
	Well, it's like you said, you said that you'd way rather just not talk about it, wait out a week.
	I personally want to like I want to talk about it.
	I can't let it sit within it.
	You know, there's some variance here.
	I think you made some good points.
	And I think that when I'm talking about therapy, I'm not talking about it so much from like trauma stuff, more so like vaguely sad.
	Like, I'm vaguely unhappy.
	There's not like a specific traumatic experience I'm trying to work through.
	It's more so just like I'm vaguely upset or sad about something, or I just like, or perhaps the problem's been solved, but I'm just going to be perpetually in therapy.
	Yeah, that's kind of confusing to me too.
	Loud to moderate depression and anxiety, by and large, particularly when it's state, which means like you're feeling sad, it's not like a diagnosis, can be solved by community.
	If you just immerse that person into a community that supports them, most of these things go away because most people are sad because they're lonely.
	Sure, final thing on the therapy thing, just in response to you, you said you want to talk about things and stuff.
	Silence, you want to talk about things?
	Yeah, like I got it.
	I got a therapist after that year and a half breakup because I just couldn't put it on my friends to listen to me 24/7.
	Sure, like because I'd be so anxious, so depressed.
	Like, it was but do you feel like if I can make it from a relationship realm?
	Uh, I don't feel the need to, like, for example, if my girl, if I'm dating a girl and she does something that's annoying or something, I don't feel the need to, like, in every instance, uh, if somebody's like said something that's like whatever, kind of annoying, or I don't feel the need to constantly litigate every single minor thing.
	I think part of being in a relationship is giving the other person grace and like letting like minor things.
	Unless they put the toilet paper the wrong way.
	Oh, yeah, of course, then you've got to.
	But I think that like a component of relationships is giving the other person grace to like maybe, especially this is especially the case for women.
	Like, if we say something that offends you, if maybe let a couple things slide, you know?
	I've had girls are like every fucking thing.
	I don't think I was really necessarily saying, I wasn't saying that.
	I was just saying, like, I have a bad day.
	I had a bad day at work or something really shitty happened.
	Like, I'd rather just tell somebody about it, talk about it for a second, and I'm more likely to get over it.
	My brain works on just festering on it.
	So I feel like that's kind of like where we're different.
	We're going to move on.
	We have a chat here from BlaFest, speaking of which, guys, TTS is $70.
	Oh, I forgot to change it.
	I'll just read it then.
	Women attempt unliving more times than men.
	There are more men who statistically unlive themselves in total.
	Men are just better at it and less desperate for the attention women see comes from it.
	I'm going to change the threshold on those.
	But yes.
	Thank you, Blafest, for the message.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Guys, TTS has been lowered.
	$69 TTS if you want to get it in.
	$69 TTS.
	I'm going to finish up with the pre-show notes, then we're going to get into some of the questionnaire stuff.
	Let's see.
	We had.
	Oh, final thing for you, Charlie.
	Your final note here.
	You disagree with the host and others that have been on the show when it comes to the male loneliness epidemic.
	You think that that exists because women are largely waking up to the tricks guys pull, and that's just the free market doing its thing by weeding out weak men.
	I do.
	What tricks are guys pulling and that women are waking up to?
	I mean, just in general, gaslighting.
	What is that?
	What is that?
	I don't even know what that is.
	Gaslighting is kind of like if I said like I'm gaslighting you right now.
	I do know.
	Okay, well what is gaslighting?
	You don't know what gaslighting is because you're fucking crazy.
	No, what is gaslighting though?
	I mean, I don't have like a definitive definition.
	You don't even know.
	I think it's just a buzzword women like to throw out like that.
	It's definitely, I can define it as like if I'm defining it as a verb where it's like, it's as if if I said you did something or you saw like a text that I sent or something and then you're saying like, I saw you send this text.
	And I'm like, no, you didn't.
	No, you didn't.
	Even though you saw it, I'm now making you question whether you actually saw it or not.
	That's just like something like it's from a movie.
	This guy like tries to make his wife go crazy by like moving everything like slightly to the left.
	The gaslighting comes from, it's not a psychological like psychotherapy word.
	People weaponize it like that, but it's not from psychology.
	I realize it's a phenomenon.
	I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is an influx of a lot of men who want, as I said earlier in the podcast, someone who wants like a traditional woman, but they aren't willing to be actually traditional men.
	And, you know, seeing as how, you know, like, would you guys say you guys are free market?
	Free market, like you guys say free market's the best.
	Like capitalism's not perfect, but it's the best I mean, I've never spoken on my economic.
	I'm just saying that a lot of a lot of conservative leaning men will say that I support free market.
	Yeah, I don't think you should like dump it.
	And so toxic sludge into rivers and stuff in the government.
	Yeah, no, but then what I was getting at is that like, well, a lot of women say that these guys are really low quality.
	So let me hold on and like wait longer to see a guy that does come along who is a better quality man.
	And that leads to a lot of the weaker men who aren't as traditional and aren't really high quality.
	It leaves them without anybody to go with them, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
	So, I mean, I guess that's what I was getting at.
	Is that.
	Are you saying left-leaning liberals or men who aren't leaning traditional are more depressed?
	Or what do you?
	No, no, I haven't said that.
	Oh, I was just wondering, like, if you're who's the lonely people, what's the demographic of the lonely menu?
	A lot of men that say there is a male loneliness epidemic tends to be harsh right-wing, not like just like conservative.
	I'm not thinking not like normal, like traditional conservatives.
	I'm talking to people who go off the deep end.
	And they say that there's a in fairness.
	If you actually look at incel research, it's extremely politically diverse.
	It's also like racially, politically diverse.
	Yeah, by and yeah, it's like, I think it's a right-wing talking point because the left, well, the left is so angry at men.
	Like the left and left speak, like I'm a left-wing person.
	I advocate for men's stuff all the time.
	And as a result of that, I'm a pariah in a lot of left spaces, right?
	The left really doesn't want to be honest with itself about like plights and issues that men have.
	But like, yeah, even incel data, you have like, there's like communists all the way to like fascists within the incel ideology, by and large.
	From what this is like Costello's research, at least.
	I had no idea.
	Yeah, people expect it to be right-wing, but it actually isn't.
	How do you determine talking?
	Someone's involuntarily celibate versus this is like how do you even women be involved?
	Like, how do you even determine someone?
	Is it a self-ID thing?
	Yeah, I think the men who self-ide as that are essentially they're trying to get pussy in their approach a grandma and like get pussy, which they probably could if they oh, and to answer your question, Brian, yeah, there are like it was in response to the grandma pussy comment.
	There are like women who are fall under involuntary celibates, but in both right spaces, they're called femme is kind of like what they call them.
	It's impossible.
	A woman can't be involuntarily celibate.
	Well, she could be really, really, really ugly.
	Right.
	And then it's like most men won't want to fuck her.
	But most incels, for example, would never fuck a grandma.
	But there's a lot of grandmas that probably would be down for some young dick and would be pretty open to how ugly a dude would look.
	But most guys would be like, ew, right?
	So it's like, yeah.
	But also the incel phenomena, the femme cells do steal a lot of valor from incels, which have a very different problem, by and large.
	Yeah, I mean, hold on, let me let this chat come through.
	Or actually, wait, I'll adjust.
	Incels are going to be so mad.
	Now, you.
	Where are you getting this information?
	You mentioned the science earlier.
	Which information?
	He's asking about the incels.
	William Costello is probably one of the most foremost researchers on incel stuff.
	He's the first researcher who's actually tried to approach incel groups honestly.
	Most research on incels is like, do they hate women?
	Yes, they do.
	And it's like, oh, shocker.
	He's the first one who's like befriended, worked with incel groups and studied them, like where they are in their forums and stuff like that.
	Like Jane Goodall.
	Yeah, like Jane Goodall, but for incels.
	Yes.
	I'll let him know.
	I'll let these chats come through.
	Thank you, Blafest.
	Blafest donated $200.
	Thank you, man.
	I'm a high-quality, hard-working, respectful, and traditional man.
	I love my wife and my girlfriend so much, I don't think I have it in my heart to cheat on them.
	All right.
	Thank you, Blafest, for the big $200 TTS.
	Really appreciate that.
	We have your friend Intel Wild coming in to talk some shit, Kyla.
	So, incoming.
	Oh, my best, buddy.
	Thank you, Blafest.
	Appreciate it, man.
	If you guys want $69 TTS, $69.
	Sweet Jesus, not so bright.
	Please cover up that stomach.
	We can see the jelly bursting out.
	But you know that this dude's fat.
	You know that this guy is some like fat motherfucker.
	Oh, shit.
	Yeah, I'm definitely heavier than I. Like I said, I'm at the end of a bulk.
	I am definitely him.
	That's been out.
	Mine is a little bit excessive.
	I just don't care.
	Nice.
	I guess see me in two months, see if the bulk pays the cutting paper.
	So to you, though, you think that there's like femcells exist?
	Women can be involuntarily celibate?
	I think so.
	I mean, not necessarily in a buzzword sense.
	Yes, like a woman who's like a misandress hates men.
	I could say that, yeah, that's a femme cell.
	Like someone who just hates men with like, you know, I could say, I could see that.
	Yeah, but I mean I haven't really put much thought into it because I don't think about it.
	I'm just curious though, do you think like guys who are mega players who have smashed like 200, 300 women, do you think they're like the pinnacle of feminism or do you think they probably have like some misogynistic tendencies or do you or they also maybe have like some views on women that are not particularly like well received by feminists?
	I could see it.
	Yeah.
	Like mega players probably don't have like super high opinions of women.
	I can see that yeah.
	Versus like the average guy.
	They're probably I would say like mega players probably lean more misogynistic than like your average guy who has like an average body count.
	So this idea that like we're linking like one's ability to get laid with misogyny is kind of interesting.
	But I just don't, I genuinely don't see how like I suppose a particular woman could be involuntarily celibate.
	Like she's just she's just like 800 pounds and like even like she's just bad looking.
	But like the if you look at like these incel men, like probably a lot of them are below average looking, I would say.
	But I think below like if you look at like their male, if you look at a quote unquote like a male incel, his female equivalent looks wise, she can fuck three dudes in a day.
	Isn't the only metric for this whole terminology just sex?
	Like just the act of sex?
	Like that's the ultimate definition, right?
	It's like sex.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So like, what if it's the case that both men and women are slowly rejecting this sort of like lingering sexual liberation crop dust that we're in?
	And maybe they, maybe, maybe the incelibate thing could be a good thing.
	What if it's a pushback and people are like, well, maybe I just want to get to know someone and with technology and all of this promiscuity, it's really hard to navigate.
	That'd be a vol cell.
	Maybe they just want to like, yeah, maybe they just want to like, yeah, that's the thing is like, that's why I'm like involuntary, voluntary.
	It seems to be a bit ambiguous given that there's a lot of other variables at play.
	Well, I think it would just strictly be like, this is somebody who's not like waiting until marriage and they are desirous of at least having a singular sexual encounter and they can't.
	Like they cannot get a singular sexual encounter.
	Yeah.
	Like that's what I'm wondering.
	Maybe they should rearrange their priority to for marriage or something instead.
	Maybe it'll change things.
	We have Intel Wild here.
	Oh boy.
	Here it is.
	Intel Wild.
	There it is.
	Thank you, Intel.
	Intel Wild donated $69.
	5 feet 10 inches.
	170 nice tri-crazy lady.
	WJ W Jimbob.
	What's he talking about?
	Is that me?
	No, him.
	179.
	Oh, wow.
	That's him.
	That's him.
	He's not a fatty.
	I see him.
	He's trimming.
	That's a good, that's a good congrats until wild.
	Good job.
	I'm proud of you.
	Really quick question for the panel, starting with you, Kelly.
	Equality or chivalry?
	If you had to pick one.
	Equality.
	Equality.
	Okay.
	Absolutely one.
	Equality, but I also don't believe that those are mutually exclusive.
	Sure.
	Equality.
	Chivalry.
	Equality.
	Shivery.
	There you go.
	No, that's fine.
	Okay.
	That's interesting.
	That's interesting.
	Okay.
	Oh, wait.
	How about this?
	Democracy or abortion.
	Same thing.
	So would you rather have a democracy or access to abortion?
	Starting with Kelly.
	Wouldn't access to democracy give you access to abortion?
	In this world, you can only have one.
	In this, yeah.
	So let's assume it's like a Republican conservative democracy.
	Yeah.
	Democracy.
	You pick democracy?
	Okay.
	Democracy.
	I'm confused.
	Sorry.
	Oh, it's just if you had to choose one, so would you rather have democracy in a country or but no abortion rights whatsoever?
	Or it could be like totalitarian, authoritarian, monarchy, whatever it is.
	No democracy, you can't vote anymore.
	But your right to abortion is preserved.
	Oh, democracy.
	Okay.
	Democracy.
	Okay.
	All right.
	That was not bad.
	All right.
	We got a chat here from Jake Burnett.
	Jake Burnett's donated $69.
	It's past Jay's bedtime, and he's lost so many brain cells he's falling asleep.
	Not so, you ride up.
	You tell Jay not to give an entire history lesson, but every time you speak, you give an endless yap with an essay.
	So we'll get into it.
	I want to try to bring in a topic so we can get Jay in.
	Pumped up.
	I got a topic coming up here for Jay.
	Ask him really quick if I want to do one of your notes, and then we'll come back to some of your notes a little bit later.
	You said here, I'll just do a simple one really quick.
	In a relationship, sleeping in different rooms or beds is okay.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	I'm on board.
	I'm actually on board with this.
	Okay.
	I'm on board with this.
	I think a lot of people could probably get behind different rooms because it's not like you can't go to each other's room, but you have your own space and you have, you know, it's just your own independent space separate from each other.
	Beds, I guess, kind of goes with that too.
	But yeah, I think that that's okay.
	Anybody have thoughts on this?
	Like, okay with having separate beds, separate rooms?
	I think it's healthy to have space in a relationship, but I like to cuddle, so I guess you can still go over.
	Spend the night in their room.
	It's just a separate time.
	That'll stay the night.
	Yeah, come sleep over.
	Yeah.
	I just want my own sleep.
	Okay, we're good.
	All right.
	What about you?
	Separate beds, separate rooms.
	I don't want to yuck on your yum.
	In general, I think I'm very concerned with the health of a relationship if they can't share a bedroom together.
	I think you're concerned.
	Yeah, I think there are situations like, you know, like if one person has a syndrome or like their legs, like restless leg syndrome and stuff.
	I think he's going to kung fu the chick and yeah, like she can't sleep beside him because he's literally like vibrating while he's asleep.
	Not murder, just like he's like with his legs.
	With his legs.
	But by and large.
	I guess the question is concerns me when I see that.
	Wouldn't there always be some reason for separate?
	Like, I can't imagine.
	We're just going to arbitrarily, if they're otherwise fine sleeping together, we're just going to arbitrarily, there would always be a reason for the separate beds thing, right?
	I just think most, a lot of reasons that I hear are not very compelling to me.
	What about like sleep?
	Like, oh man, it's hard for me to sleep in the same room as somebody.
	Again, it would depend on like what that is.
	So like if they're just like, I just don't like sleeping near anyone, I'd be like, well, that's kind of weird, but I guess do your thing.
	If they're just like, I just need my own space.
	Wait, was this the topic that was going to get Jay fired?
	No, no, I wanted to do one of her notes.
	Then we'll get to, hopefully we'll get to that topic.
	I had big funny things.
	So what's your reason for wanting it?
	Mainly, I think just to have your own room and your own space and all your own stuff.
	And it's just kind of like yours is yours, yours is yours.
	Sure.
	What about you?
	I'm down to have like a guest bedroom, but for the most part, like I just want my own closet, maybe separate bathrooms, but bed, I'm sharing.
	What about you?
	Own your own bedroom, I would say.
	Yeah.
	You're fine with it?
	Yeah, I like the idea of having your own self-expression and you don't have to like compromise so much.
	And then you can just, you know, go to each other's rooms after.
	Doesn't matter.
	Sure.
	Jim Bob?
	I would say same bed.
	Try to keep that.
	Not to say like you can't have like a, I don't know, like a day bed in like a studio where you just like pass out because you're, you know, you're doing stuff.
	But I kind of look at it from a, even though it's unlikely, I look at it from a protective lens where like I want access to be able to defend my family and my wife.
	So I want to be closer if something occurs.
	That makes sense.
	Jay, what about you?
	I'm married late in life, so I was really used to not having like somebody in my personal space every single night.
	But then when I got married, it took me about a year or two.
	I got really used to it, so I like it now.
	And then like when we, you know, like sometimes I do snore, like not every night, but maybe once every month or so.
	Sometimes like you can have, you know, if somebody's sick or something like that, somebody goes in the other room, but like, I think typically you're going to want somebody, yeah.
	Yeah.
	And I'm not, I would, I'm okay with sharing a room or a bed.
	I'm just saying it's okay.
	Like I could see why you would.
	And I kind of could go either way, I think.
	Yeah.
	I'm kind of big on the separate stuff.
	I like the separate beds, separate room.
	I just like the separate messes.
	Yeah.
	Separate messes?
	I feel like that'll avoid a fight.
	You make your room messy.
	I make my room messy.
	No one.
	Yeah, I think separate rooms is good.
	Are you messy?
	Because usually girls are clean.
	Like the dudes are messy.
	I mean, like, my closet's a disaster from getting dressed today, and I don't plan on cleaning it up tonight or maybe tomorrow.
	So it's like that type of stuff.
	But no, I feel like men are very messy if you're, if you're the girl cleaning and you're cleaning up after a man every time.
	I mean, obviously everyone has their own situation, but yeah.
	Okay.
	Rock and roll.
	All right.
	Let me get into the questionnaire here, which hopefully we'll be able to get Jay into on some of the stuff.
	Let's see.
	Here, why don't we go Kyla's notes to see if there's anything there?
	You did like little squiggly signs, which I guess is like maybe.
	Like, meh, depending on how we phrase it.
	So a man dating a transgender woman is straight, to which you're in.
	He's like more gay than a guy not dating a transmender, but it's more straight than a guy dating a man, you know?
	Okay, so it's like a spectrum is what you're saying.
	Yeah, if they have kitties, it's obviously more femme than if they have a penis and chest hair.
	I see.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I would actually be, I think that'd probably grant that.
	But you wouldn't say that it would be straight.
	It'd be straighter.
	Straighter.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	But it wouldn't be, for example, like a man dating a transgender woman.
	They would not be in a heterosexual relationship.
	They'd probably use that label a lot.
	I'd be fine with that.
	I don't really care.
	But would it be, from your perspective, a heterosexual relationship?
	Mostly.
	Hold on.
	Mostly?
	Yeah, because she's in most ways super femme.
	She's presenting femme, but there's obviously, in a lot of cases, there's no chance for pregnancy.
	There's oftentimes not a vagina going on, right?
	So it's not quite heterosexual.
	Hold on.
	So we're talking about the binary, though, because I'm treating these things obviously spectrumal, right?
	Well, there's not a sex.
	There's a ge.
	I'll go ahead and grant that there's a gender spectrum, but there's not a sex spectrum.
	Like it's binary.
	Sure, but I think when you're talking about like heterosexuality to homosexuality, you're talking about being gay or straight.
	And so in that sense, I would say it's a very good idea.
	Which is sex.
	It's sex, not gender.
	It's heterosexuality pertains to sex, not gender.
	But I guess I'm rejecting your binary approach to the future.
	I mean, it's literally, but it's literally in the worst definition.
	Heterosexuality.
	That's not how we'd like to define things, though, right?
	Wait, it's the same thing that we use in sex relationships.
	Postmodernism.
	This is the science that you're talking about.
	Are you a science denier?
	No, I'm not a science denier.
	I don't think anyone says that sexuality and homosexuality is this binary thing in the way that we'd say sex is.
	Because sex is binary for a number of reasons.
	It's not just genitalia.
	It's a whole number of factions.
	Whereas heterosexuality and homosexuality is much less of a biological concept.
	It's much more of like a social concept of how we label relationships, which is more spectral.
	Between what?
	Between sexes.
	Between genders a lot of time, right?
	No.
	Yes.
	Between sexes.
	That's maybe how you define it.
	That's just not a problem.
	Wait, but okay, the word itself is a social construct, but the behavior that's observed is object.
	Wouldn't that be objective?
	Yeah, that's why it would be spectrum, right?
	Like if you're having sex with somebody and you're like sucking on their titty, but also like they have a penis, it's obviously less straight than it's her titty, but his penis.
	Are you splitting it?
	No, no, it's her titty and her penis.
	His torso?
	It's her titty and her penis.
	Wait, you heard there is such a thing as her penis.
	How's that?
	Is that binary?
	Is that a binary?
	What is a gender?
	Well, it's.
	You're the one making a claim.
	Yeah, well, I don't think that sex is just genitalia.
	Okay, do you think there's a difference between sex and gender?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Can a female, sex, a female, be a trans woman?
	Can a female, like a sex woman?
	If gender and sex are different, can a female be a trans woman?
	No, because the whole point of trans is that you're transitioning to the opposite.
	Oh, gender.
	Binary.
	You mean transitioning to a different sex?
	Nope, performing as an opposite gender.
	Okay, well, though, if it's different...
	You don't suddenly become like XY when you take the stars on, right?
	You just reduce it to sex.
	If it's impossible for a female.
	Well, you have reduced it to that, but I have not, right?
	So if you want to gauge my words, what's the transition?
	What's the transition then?
	The transition is the gender performance.
	From what to what?
	Woman to man.
	In this case, if they believe that.
	Which is what?
	Which is what?
	A transgender.
	In that case, a woman to man.
	A transgender man.
	So you see how silly this is.
	It's over.
	Like, you're insane.
	I get it.
	You guys don't like transgender.
	No, you're actually insane.
	Like you're an insane person.
	You guys already acknowledge that gender is spectrum?
	I didn't say that.
	You're already informed by norms.
	We're just asking you, President.
	Oh, you guys don't think gender and sex are different.
	No.
	That was just me, I guess.
	Oh, okay.
	No, I think once I think they're informed from a binary.
	That's why this question is absolutely.
	It gets downstream from a binary.
	This question destroys the entire paradigm because if premise one is sex and gender are not the same and transgender is this transition of genders, it's not a transition of sex, then a female, which is sex, could be a trans woman.
	But you said they can't be because of.
	But they're not really transitioning anywhere, right?
	Yeah, that's our point.
	There is no transition.
	That's to my point, too.
	If you want to hear my definition, right?
	Typically, gender is downstream of sex.
	This is obviously true.
	When you're born in the world, when is it atypical?
	There's multiple situations where it's atypical.
	There's lots of women that are born with an XY condition, but their testes essentially aren't.
	Can I identify as?
	It's literally not sex, and it's arguable whether or not they're a man or woman because their testes don't drop.
	So they express they have a vagina, they have tits.
	So physical.
	They have a vagina, they have tits.
	They go through female puberty.
	The only thing that you catch them in is they don't have a period because they're testing.
	Can I identify as that?
	Can I identify that?
	There's a massive question of which sex that person is.
	The thing you just described, can I identify as having that phenomenon?
	What's a chair?
	Define a chair for me.
	This is what you're doing.
	You're doing your question.
	Do you think I answer questions, Jim?
	No, you don't.
	All the time.
	I answer your questions the entire conversation.
	The issue is that when you find answers that you don't like, you just insist that I don't ask questions.
	You have still not answered my question about objectivism versus absolutism.
	You've run away from it the entire time.
	You still not answer my question about objectivism.
	You're not answering because you don't know anything about objectivism.
	You're not worthy of answering either, so I get to use the same fails.
	You claim that you know the question.
	No, you're not worthy to talk to me about that.
	You don't know anything about the gender spectrum.
	You don't know one book in the talk.
	You're not worthy to talk to me.
	I'm sorry, Jay.
	You're not worthy for me to talk to on this topic.
	You don't just can't.
	Does it have to do with sofas?
	No, no.
	So this is the problem with it, and this is why it's such a defeater: is that if there's two different things you're talking about, every time you point to some sort of obscure deformity or some weird atypical biological expression that happens between genes or the time you point to medical science.
	Hold on a second.
	You're actually pointing to someone, something that has nothing to do with gender because gender, you said.
	We're talking about sex.
	No, we're talking about sex and gender.
	Yeah, which is why I said it's downstream, but it's not one-to-one.
	Sex is categorized by a number of things.
	It's your chromosome.
	Can I be any gender?
	The gametes that you produce.
	Listen to my question.
	And the androgenic focus.
	You spouting out science terms doesn't give you a question.
	I got to ask you a question.
	Just tell me you don't know what these words mean.
	That's overly.
	Kyla, pause for a second.
	Do you know what a gamete is?
	You spouting out terms.
	Chimbox.
	What's a gamete?
	Forget it.
	What's a gamete?
	What's a gamete?
	You can't have a conversation with me.
	Jay, what's a gamete?
	What do you guys ask for definitions of words?
	I want to know.
	That's not going to be a good question.
	Help me understand your position.
	Can you help me understand your position?
	I would love to, but you guys keep interrupting me and holding.
	I think that words are purely subjective.
	Like definitions.
	Are they just subjective?
	No, they tend to be arrived to by like social concession.
	However, scientific words typically are operationally defined.
	So how do you know that?
	You claim these things, right?
	You asserted that.
	How do you know that to be the case?
	Are you just going to go downstairs?
	I want to know how you know these things.
	I think, therefore, I am.
	That's what I'm saying.
	Can you tell me how you know that?
	You just spit stuff out, but how do you know that?
	And what constitutes that knowledge?
	Jesus fucking Christ, dude.
	Okay.
	So you're just going to cuss, but you don't know.
	No, I'll answer you as well.
	How do we know?
	Okay, what was the statement?
	How do I know that...
	You literally just machine gun bullshit nonstop.
	How do you know any of those things?
	What's your justification for you?
	Right, what's your epistemic system?
	Epistemic justification, what is it?
	Typically, I observe things.
	There's not like epistemic systems that you subscribe to, the same way that we all know.
	You observed all of that.
	How do you know that your microphone exists?
	All the things that you just stated to me.
	How do you know your microphone exists?
	All the things you substitute.
	How do you know that your microphone is existing?
	That's a two-quote.
	I'm just curious how you, Jay, know that your microphone exists or does it not?
	So your answer to my question is to ask me a question.
	Yeah, that's called Socratic engagement.
	Have you never seen that?
	Dodging is called dogmas.
	Dodging is called dodging.
	Oh, so Socrates is not a real philosopher.
	Was he a dodger?
	He's not answered most of the time.
	Does he answer the right question?
	What's objectivism versus absolutism?
	What is Agrippa's trilemma?
	How do you solve Agrippa's trilemma?
	I want to understand your position about when you say words are defined this way and this way.
	They tend to be arrived to at a social collection as well as in science, it's operationally defined.
	Because that's the norm that we all live in, which you live in.
	That's a fallacy.
	You would, of course, because we all believes that, it's true.
	That's a fallacy.
	That's not at all what I said.
	I said that we tend to arrive in terms that are like denotative by operational definition.
	How does this justify?
	Do you know what these words mean?
	I'm engaging at your level.
	Connotatively, we typically arrive to by like some sort of social media.
	Tell me what we do, and I want to know how you get it.
	This is true.
	You disagree that we come to the arrival of what words mean by some level of social group.
	How do we come to what you're saying?
	Justification in your mind.
	How do we come together?
	So, when you get pinned, you dodge by asking a question.
	I have answered your question every single time, and then I respond with a question that you don't like because you don't want to engage in a group of trilemma because you know that you get surprised.
	Why are you bringing up something about that?
	Because what you're doing is an epistemic walkdown of self-justifying the why, why, why?
	I just want to know your position.
	I have answered it six times.
	Where's the justification?
	You just asserted things.
	Typically, do you want me to answer it again?
	You said we observe it and we all have that.
	We do stuff.
	We agree on society.
	It's an appeal to society, which is a fallacy.
	It's not a fallacy to say that the way that we come to connotations is by the way.
	What is the appeal to masses fallacy?
	It's not an appeal to masses when you're talking about the social collection of words.
	This is an appeal to masses.
	You're misusing the social media.
	How do masses do it this way?
	No, I said that society arrives at these.
	That's the masses.
	How do connotative words get defined?
	That's an appeal to the words.
	How do quantitative words get defined in your work?
	What's an appeal to masses?
	How do you think she got caught?
	You're never going to answer a question.
	Because your questions are gibberish nonsense.
	You're just a small man.
	Are you going to answer a question?
	All I've had is multiple answers to your questions.
	I've had five reasons as to how you find sex.
	I've outlined the difference between sex and gender.
	And I've also outlined how you arrive at definitions.
	Are you still bulking?
	Multiple times.
	What's the difference?
	Are you still bulking?
	You're bulking.
	What's the difference, though?
	Oh, you're just going for now.
	Are you a fat joke?
	Kyle Lund.
	You said it.
	We asked you.
	Yeah, I am bulking.
	Well, no, I ended bulking like four.
	It's a very simple question.
	Can someone, regardless of their sex, be any gender?
	Oh, now we want to talk about reality.
	She doesn't know.
	You're talking to a mentally insane person.
	Which is crazy because despite that, you can't answer a single fucking question.
	I don't owe you an answer to your dumbass question.
	I don't owe you an answer to anything either.
	That's what fucking debate is because we both agree to engage back and forth.
	This is not the W that you think it is.
	You look embarrassing.
	You look embarrassing.
	You're a melting guy.
	Just wait a second.
	I got a little proposal here.
	Maybe we can make some headway with it.
	Some ground here.
	And I don't know if I'm using this term correctly.
	What if we did this?
	So it seems like both of you strongly disagree.
	What if instead of like kind of a shape?
	Hold on.
	Hold on.
	Instead of like a constant like back and forth, you ask a question, he answers a question, asks a question.
	What if I give each of you like you ask 10 questions, you respond to them without asking questions back, and then once he's asked his 10 questions, you then can ask him 10 questions to which he has to respond to without like asking a question.
	Is that like an internal tenant a lot?
	That's going to.
	Do you want to do like five just so that we can do that?
	We could do less.
	We could do less, but that might be more productive.
	Is that but I'm only going to answer her questions relevant to our topic.
	Amazing.
	So he doesn't have to answer the previous questions that he dodged.
	That's how I'm not going to ask you to do that.
	I refuse to answer irrelevant questions.
	If that's the caveat he's going to add to it, I refuse.
	That's what a debate would be.
	Why would you bring in irrelevant questions?
	A debate is where we both engage with one another because you still have to answer my questions.
	Why would you ask me?
	Hey, ladies.
	Did he ever answer the question absolutism versus objectivism at any point?
	They don't know.
	It doesn't matter.
	Did he answer that question?
	It's irrelevant what anyone else is doing.
	Charlie says no.
	Do you guys know?
	I don't owe you that answer.
	This is how debates work.
	All you're doing right now is admitting to me that you're not going to be able to do that.
	That topic is not on.
	That's not today's topic.
	That was yesterday's topic, dummy.
	First of all, we explicitly talked about that today.
	We talked about it to the topic.
	No, I reject that because the questions I would like to get answered.
	Exactly.
	The questions I would like to get answered are the questions I only get answered the entire time.
	Is talk about totally irrelevant other topics than what we're debating.
	That's the only thing you do.
	It's a definite tactic, and it's pure garbage.
	That is true.
	That's a crazy statement.
	No, it's not.
	Aging is rough for you, isn't it?
	Oh, so here we go.
	That's not an add-on.
	Are you bulking up still?
	Are you bulking up still?
	First of all, he looks in his 30s.
	He does not.
	He looks, he's a young man.
	He's a handsome guy, but the reality is he's terrified of his fans.
	He's terrified of what?
	Aging.
	Asians?
	Aging.
	Do you have something against Asians?
	And Asians.
	He told me before, by the way, he was like, if there's any Asians there, I literally can't be there.
	Are there any Asian people here?
	It's a total lie.
	I actually made sure there wouldn't be any here today.
	So I really appreciate that.
	This kind of exploded, but I didn't get a clear answer.
	About the Asian thing?
	Yeah.
	That you're afraid of Asians?
	No, I don't think you're afraid of Asians.
	Did I say that to you?
	No, I literally just turned to Charlie and I said, just you know what?
	Are you Asian?
	God, I wish.
	No.
	Aging.
	You're talking about aging.
	That was me.
	I made a joke.
	I made a funny.
	So no to the 10 questions.
	Okay.
	Well, definitely 10 questions.
	Okay, well, five, three.
	I'm not answering any of her gibberish.
	That's not relevant to the topic because her whole shtick is to bring in things not vague.
	Okay, then I'll just move it on.
	But I do want to say that's not pussy.
	You were talking about male pussy.
	You were talking about male vaginas.
	Yeah.
	That's not a vagina.
	It's a wound.
	It's not a vagina.
	It's not pussy.
	Okay.
	It's not pussy.
	It's a literal wound.
	It's not pussy.
	Huh?
	What?
	When you were describing the things like, well, if a man has the vaginal plastic.
	He has like titties and makeup and the wig and the vagina.
	And I was like, it's not a vagina.
	It's not.
	Don't call it a vagina.
	Like a vaginal plasty vagina isn't a vagina.
	Is that what you're saying?
	I just want to make sure I'm not.
	You were saying how a biological male, when they transition, change their gender from man to woman and they get the surgery.
	Some of them do.
	That's a sexual distinction.
	It's pussy.
	What is it?
	It's a psychological piece.
	It's a wound.
	That's not pussy.
	No, it's a literal wound.
	It's a surgery wound.
	It ain't a vagina, okay?
	Kyla?
	Okay.
	Please show some respect of vaginas.
	I know you are very passionate about vaginas.
	I don't mean to step on your feminism today.
	I'm so sorry, Brian.
	I saw your disagreement.
	I could prove it's not a vagina if you think it is.
	If I got the same exact surgery done right here on my cheek, is that a vagina?
	Yeah, you'd have a vagina on your cheek.
	Really?
	Yeah, every single person who would look at you would be like, why has that dude got a vagina on his face?
	It's a real vagina.
	Yeah, everyone would look at that.
	That's a real vagina.
	Well, it's not like a cis woman's vagina.
	What?
	In every way, if you're not.
	A cis woman's vagina as opposed to what other people are.
	Are you saying real vagina?
	No, I'm assuming you mean it.
	Are you on meds?
	Because you literally don't seem like a sane.
	Wait, hold on.
	Cool.
	Are you saying that this is really misogynistic?
	Are you saying that instead of women having mouths, they should have vaginas there instead so they can't speak?
	I think that's what you're getting to.
	As the sole feminist here at the table, you're kind of can they utilize cleefs effectively to form words?
	I will grant.
	I'll allow it.
	Okay, then I'm okay with this world.
	Oh, man, that's crazy.
	Because you're basically saying something that's an imposter is identical to the thing itself.
	Like your knowledge of philosophy.
	And yours, apparently.
	It's not posted.
	You mean how you couldn't name anything?
	Do you want to define it?
	Well, now that we're back to this topic, do you want to define objectivism versus absolutism since you brought it back there?
	Oh my God, look at this poor girl and her sunburn.
	Holy shit, what happened to you?
	One drive, one-way drive.
	Don't look at it.
	You should have turned around.
	No, fucking writing.
	He was driving up here.
	I wonder if you're sleeping.
	I'm like, girl.
	Skin kicks her.
	Don't push your intention to it.
	Okay, Kyla, the rest of your notes here.
	You did a little squiggly line to you agree men are more privileged in society than women.
	That's like an iffy, maybe one for you.
	Women are more privileged in a number of areas and men are more privileged in a number of areas.
	In totality.
	Or is it hard to say?
	In totality, I genuinely, I don't know.
	I haven't done the cost analysis in my head.
	Okay.
	Do you want to bite on that one, Jay, or not so much?
	He doesn't want to talk about male privilege.
	That's so antithetical to everything he cares about.
	What?
	How do you know?
	Oh, sorry, are you really passionate about some research?
	How do you know?
	I'm just assuming based on your worldview.
	On what?
	Your worldview.
	How do you know what that is?
	Well, if you're pro-patriarchy and all these sorts of things, I imagine that you wouldn't want to say something that male privilege, like men have more privilege, because then you're acknowledging something that sounds negative, but also you wouldn't want to say that females have more privilege because that would always be a little bit more likely to be a problem.
	I did answer the question.
	I know you didn't in society.
	If you can't keep up with this at this point, Jay, that says a lot more about you than it does about me, right?
	Like if you think I'm a child and I'm all these like bad things and yet you also can't understand what I'm saying, that's your issue.
	It's literal gibberish, like what you say.
	I am not speaking gibberish.
	I'm speaking coherently.
	It's not coherent.
	You think a vagina is a gash on a face?
	I get that you don't like what I'm saying.
	No, it's just total insanity.
	It's like talking like a bomb in the street.
	It's like the type of like schizo gibberish that they say.
	It's equivalent to what you say.
	You're saying she's homeless?
	It's equivalent.
	Mentally the equivalence.
	Of being homeless?
	What is that?
	What do you even say?
	Like mental illness.
	It's a person on the street.
	Like it's the same level of understanding of subjectivity that words are defined according to you.
	You can make them into that.
	In other words, there's no truth.
	Relativism is not the same.
	There's no standard for truth from you.
	Relativism is the opposite of absolutism.
	Objectivism is the opposite.
	Do we create truths?
	I'm an objectivist.
	Do we create truth?
	And a relativist.
	Do we exist in both of these paradigms?
	No, that's a contradiction.
	That's total insanity.
	Like you said, God's a relativist.
	Like when you said God's a relativist?
	Remember that?
	This?
	Remember that?
	This is why I don't see that.
	That's a production of it.
	When you said God is a relativist.
	I don't think that she knows anything about it.
	She drew something.
	She draws a meme.
	She draws a meme.
	That's what homeless people do.
	They scribble off.
	I mean, to be fair, I think.
	God or cooks or something is correct.
	I did see you speaking with somebody.
	Can I make a t-shirt of that?
	You were hanging out with some of those people.
	Ryan, why are you telling people that?
	You're Asian too.
	Let's tell Jay, though.
	What you just said is absurd because if you hold both of those true, which one's the true one between the two?
	Objectivism and relativism?
	Yeah, which one's true?
	These two things are not mutually exclusive concepts.
	And how is that?
	Okay.
	Throw another's plugin.
	We can finally go into it.
	Just so it's clear, I want you to tell me.
	Yeah, I will.
	I'm not giving you the lecture.
	Like, you want to know what you're doing.
	I want you to tell me because I don't know.
	Okay, objectivism is rooted in something like platonic forms.
	It believes that there is a true sense of a concept like justice and that this is a universal, essentially, idea or construct that exists.
	Whereas relativism is way more interested in things like looking at the situation around something to gauge whether or not it's essentially saying you don't have to apply all law equally to every person because there's always so much more complicated going on to find things.
	So a good example of absolutism is Kant.
	He believes that basically all law should be applied equally to everyone.
	This is not the same as objectivism in any way, shape, or form because objectivism just believes that there is a true concept of like justice.
	You said you were going to let me say this.
	Subjectivism basically rejects that.
	It's like Derrida that says there is no such thing as a true anything.
	There's no such thing as justice.
	There's no such thing as any of this.
	And this is where like post-modernist theory comes in.
	I am an objectivist and a relativist.
	What are you?
	You don't understand Kant.
	Because you couldn't tell me one of his books.
	Oh, buddy.
	Can you engage me?
	What is Kant's ethic?
	Can you tell me what his ethic is?
	He's an absolutist.
	Are you asking like?
	What's the name of his ethical system?
	I don't know the name of his ethical system.
	He's an absolutist.
	But you just talked about Kant's.
	Do you disagree that Kant is not an absolute system?
	Is he not an absolutist?
	You don't know what his system is.
	God.
	Just saying no, you don't.
	Simple.
	I literally just said that I don't know what it's called.
	But is he not an absolutist?
	You know Kantianism.
	It's called deontological ethics.
	It's deontological ethics.
	Oh, right.
	It's deontology.
	Do you disagree that he's an absolutist?
	What's the thing?
	You disagree that he's an athlete.
	You're never going to answer a question.
	You're just going to run forever.
	I'm showing that you don't know.
	You reference Kant and Ethel.
	I will just keep asking you this question.
	Is Kant an absolutist?
	Is Kant an absolutist?
	Kant is he believes in idealism.
	Is he an absolutist?
	He believes that everything is in the mind.
	And so in that sense, no.
	So he's not an absolutist.
	You heard it here, guys?
	More of a solid.
	Not an absolutist.
	He believes in a...
	What about Plato?
	Is he an objectivist?
	He believes in a...
	He believes in a duty-based ethic that he thinks you can ontologize to all people.
	He thinks you can universalize it.
	But he doesn't believe that it's absolute and it's objective.
	That's called the phenomenal noumenal distinction.
	I didn't say objective, and I didn't say he's an objectivist.
	I said he's an absolutist.
	Thank you, I guess, for agreeing with me.
	In your definition, you said absolute was universal?
	Absolutism is a universal application of the word.
	Kant doesn't believe that.
	Thank you.
	Yes, he does.
	That's why he creates a lot of things.
	Kant doesn't believe that you know.
	He's got the categorical imperative, which is essentially lying.
	He thinks lying is the only thing that's not.
	That's not the categorical imperative.
	It's deontological ethics that you can universalize every ethical situation.
	Not refuting anything about the categorical.
	It shows that you don't know what you're talking about.
	I'm telling you what.
	You're allowed to not know certain words, but you can still engage with the ideas.
	This is why, for example, you know what you would never do.
	You would never talk to me about psychology because you know you'd get to know that.
	So now she has to go to the discipline that she came to you.
	That she isn't here to debate because she doesn't know the discipline she's trying to debate.
	Why are you talking about Kant?
	You don't know any of his works.
	You don't know the basics.
	Jesus Christ.
	Name one of Kant's books.
	Knowing books is what?
	Name one of his books.
	Name one writing.
	That would be simple.
	Just one.
	I've already told you.
	I don't know the title of anything.
	I don't even know the title of William Costello's articles that I'm reading.
	I have no idea.
	I don't memorize titles.
	Did you read any of Kant's books?
	I did.
	I read one of them.
	You said three earlier.
	Now, which is one?
	I don't remember.
	Was it three or one?
	I think I read one.
	But you said three earlier.
	Maybe I was wrong.
	Maybe it was wrong.
	Or you lied.
	No.
	You just lie about what you think you know because you're on a performative debate setting.
	And you totally failed.
	Which is crazy because you'd think that if I was such a liar and such a stupid head, you could answer my questions.
	You just got shown up that you don't know.
	Do you want me to help you out?
	I don't know the difference between you.
	Do you want me to help you out?
	You don't know the difference between these words.
	You don't understand that.
	You think a dunk for me is not knowing titles.
	You came to debate topics that you don't know anything about.
	Remember when we talked about Heidegger last time and we agreed to a silly thing to do?
	Come on.
	Remember when we talked about it?
	Can you name one of Heidegger's books?
	And you agreed with it?
	Name a Heidegger book.
	I can't.
	I don't memorize Heidegger.
	I've never read any of this shit.
	That's not true.
	You're a liar.
	I'm sorry.
	Because you're lying and you got busted lying.
	The issue is.
	Name one Heidegger book.
	Careful.
	I'll call you out again.
	Name one Heidegger book.
	I'm joking.
	Come on.
	Name one Heidegger book.
	Jay, this is fallacious.
	Please name one Heidegger book to show you.
	I don't need Heidegger.
	I don't need to.
	Because you haven't.
	Have you read him?
	Memorizing book titles.
	Have you read him at all?
	Memorizing book titles is not evidence of doing a book.
	Can you define Heidi versus Objectivism?
	Have you read Heidegger?
	You said yesterday that?
	Yes, I read Heidegger.
	Name one book.
	I can't.
	I've already told you I don't memorize titles.
	No.
	Can you name the difference between a titanium?
	Being in time is a Heidegger book.
	Because yesterday you said that they were synonymous.
	Being in time is a Heidegger book.
	Last time you said that objectivism and absolutism is synonymous, which is false, and you know that that's false.
	Can you define the difference between these two words?
	You were not using them in an equivocating way.
	Don't even fucking trust me.
	That's not equivocation, you idiot.
	Jay, don't you dare dare.
	Don't you dare.
	Give it a try.
	Can you name one philosophy book?
	What's the difference between the two?
	I already gave you a Plato's Republic.
	Plato's Republic.
	Just one that you read.
	I've read parts of Thus Speaks Zarathustra.
	The Five Dialogues is also a name of a book.
	Just because I don't know the specific letter names doesn't mean that I haven't read the five dialogues.
	I could watch you through, walk you through multiple dialogue.
	The first dialogue is broadly about arate, which is this idea of purpose of things.
	So he goes into lions and how their purpose is to kill and how forks the purpose is to help you eat.
	And so the question of the first dialogue is essentially, what is the purpose of humans?
	Because they're somewhere between demons and God.
	So what is their purpose?
	Because it's certainly not to be had.
	That's the first one.
	The fifth one, for example, goes into friendship and friendships of virtue.
	And he talks about the three types of friendship.
	And he asked the question, how do you achieve friendships of virtue and what are their values?
	This is why men suicide.
	All of this proves that I've read these books.
	He's just mad because I don't know the title of the dialogue.
	No, it doesn't.
	I'm sorry if I'm able to cite you.
	I'm not sure if there are portions of what the book is about.
	This proves that I have engaged with the philosophy.
	You are squirming so hard because you realize that you don't know the difference between these two words, which massively calls into question your validity.
	You have not even once answered the question of the difference between absolutism and objectivism.
	Not once have you answered it.
	You said they were synonymous.
	And they are not.
	Those are words that can be used in different systems based on the intention of the system.
	Moral objectivism and moral absolutism are defined very clearly within this book.
	Because you said just the words, and those words depend on the systems that they're used in and the philosophers that use them.
	Nope.
	You said that they were synonymous.
	You said that.
	This is what you do throughout debates when you ask people to explain and they start to explain and you just go, nope.
	Because in your mind, that's actually an argument.
	You already said, though.
	This is like the unironic Darvo thing.
	No, but you do what I do.
	Meaning.
	She just defined the difference between these two words.
	What's the difference?
	What's the difference, Jay?
	What?
	What's the difference between absolutism and objectivism?
	I don't know why you're running from this question so much.
	It's easy to ask this question, and I can answer it based on the philosophers that are in question.
	So we can talk about Randian objectivism.
	No, he's not going to answer it.
	He's telling you that the words.
	The words themselves depend on the context and the philosophy.
	Nope, there is a barely agreed on ideas of what objectivism.
	Who agreed on it?
	Broadly, the philosophical body of academic theology.
	So you agree then.
	There are schools of objectivism, schools.
	You can search these things.
	Thank you for making my point.
	You just made the point.
	You just made the point.
	That's not your point.
	Literally what he just said.
	I'm telling you my point, you idiot.
	No, you're not.
	You just made my point.
	You're just running.
	You're just running by obfuscating.
	Look, you've made my point.
	If you're telling me about objectivism, I actually have to go back 30 years to Ayn Rand objectivism, which actually isn't in the school of objectivism.
	You just proved his point.
	You proved my point, you idiot.
	No, I did not.
	You just literally said what his point was.
	Literally, you mouthed it.
	No.
	You mouthed his point.
	What do you mean?
	No, I'm telling you, you did.
	I agree with what you said, dummy.
	So you agree that there's a difference between absolutism and objectivism, that they are not synonymous terms.
	And yesterday, when you implied that they were synonymous terms to get a sick dunk on me, you were fucking lying.
	Or retarded.
	I said the same thing yesterday, that the words are used by different philosophers in different systems, and it depends upon which one.
	So you just won't.
	So I said earlier that I could say that I'm individually a subjectivist.
	Let's try the next one.
	What's a grippa trilogy?
	So just not going to be a picture.
	He's answering a question.
	What's a gamete?
	The grippers, the gametes.
	What's a gamete?
	I got to read a couple of them.
	Well, if you're going to talk about sex, you should probably know what a gamete is.
	I got to read a couple chats, so I didn't argue with them.
	Hold on, hold on.
	Put your swords away for just a second.
	...underscore ordinated $69.
	Her debate style feels eerily similar to a roid rage.
	I'd always wondered what small dick energy would look like on a biological female.
	We don't use those terms.
	I guess now we know.
	Uh.
	Thank you for that.
	Appreciate it.
	Okay, really quick, some shout-outs for Venmo Cash App contributions.
	David, thank you for the 22.
	Lindsay, thank for the 20.
	Chad, thank you for the 10.
	That's on Cash App.
	Laura, thank you for the three on Cash App.
	And then Laura, thank you for the 25 on Cash App too.
	Appreciate it.
	If you guys want, we're doing $69 TTS if you want to get them in.
	We have, let's see, Kenny here with a message.
	Thank you, Kenny.
	Appreciate it.
	Kennis Tex donated $69.
	Thank you, man.
	Care 2's entire dialogue.
	Yeah, pee-appe-ap.
	Use a bunch of terminology I don't fully understand.
	Literally, question with question.
	Yappy app.
	If anything, I guess thank you.
	We're pretty different, but yeah, we're not going to be able to do that.
	No, you're not.
	You mimic every one of his movements all the way down to the next one.
	As somebody who works with him, as somebody who worked with him for a year and a half, and you thought that he was actually a good debater, that's why you mimic him.
	Oh, my God.
	Not so bright.
	Would you beg Testiny if he asked you to?
	Your hubby Nick could watch face emoji.
	At this point, Intel is wild.
	Intel should pay me for all these sex fantasies he's having of me.
	Wow, that's wild.
	We also have I can't even say the name.
	Massive Paneza Sane Baby donated $69.
	What?
	Puppy lady.
	Oops, sorry.
	I meant butch lady.
	Piece of shit.
	Poop emoji.
	What the fuck?
	Okay.
	All right.
	Thank you for that.
	We have Wrath coming in here in just a minute.
	Here, I'll just read JJ.
	Take Destiny.
	Oh, okay.
	There it is.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Roth donated $69.
	Whatever podcast helped me with my laundry.
	Every time there is a Sperg Fist, I know it's time to start, change over, fold, hang, match songs, clean the lint filter.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, Rath.
	Thank you for the TTS.
	Appreciate it.
	Kyla, next note here.
	You say it's sort of wrong for a man to dump his girlfriend if she regularly turns him down for sex.
	You also, Kelly, you also agree with that if the girlfriend or wife regularly turns him down for sex, wrong for him to dump them in that.
	Why is that?
	Here, why don't we start with Kelly?
	Then we'll go to Kyla.
	I think the pressure of having to engage in sexual activity shouldn't rely so much on the destiny of a relationship.
	Like, I feel it's not fair, essentially.
	Like, if a woman just doesn't want to have sex all the time, but she's still having sex, like, it's not like all the time, and the guy is not feeling satisfied and is putting pressure and it's putting the whole relationship in jeopardy because of that one soul aspect.
	I think it's very shallow.
	Okay, very shallow.
	There's so much more to a relationship than sex.
	So much more.
	Would you yourself be in an asexual relationship?
	No.
	Well, that's rather shallow.
	Why are you asking that?
	Why are you asking that?
	Well.
	Well, you're saying that.
	So, I mean, I agree with you that there's more to a relationship than just sex, absolutely.
	But it's just kind of interesting.
	You yourself, well, I guess it's not a.
	What priority, I guess, would be a good question.
	Like, if we all agree that a relationship is composed of various aspects, if sex, I would say most people argue that it's a fairly important, depending on their age, aspect.
	So what level of importance in like one to 10 is regular sex?
	I would say like the top three, but it's not, it shouldn't determine the destiny of a relationship.
	I don't think it's fair.
	I have a follow-up question.
	If a girlfriend of yours came to you and said, I'm dating this guy, things are otherwise pretty good, but I want to have sex and he's not giving me sex, and she's contemplating breaking up with him, would you?
	Oh, definitely say that's not okay.
	Like, you should have a conversation with him.
	You should be at least having a conversation, mention it, and if you were able to work through it and try to...
	What does working through it look like, though, when one person, whether man or woman, wants to have a higher frequency of sex in a relationship and the other doesn't?
	But finding a compromise, maybe perhaps the person is working so much and they don't have time to just be home and having sex all the time.
	And maybe the other one is not, you know, they're stay at home or, you know.
	If a guy was dating a woman and he stopped paying for dates, would that, and she wanted him to pay for dates, would that be sufficient justification for her to dump him?
	If that's her top three and she doesn't like it, then that's her.
	If it's free will, yes, she can.
	But so you indicated it was wrong for a man to dump his girlfriend if she regularly turns him down for sex.
	Let me change it a little bit.
	Let's say it's a dead bedroom and they're not having sex at all.
	And it's on her part, right?
	He wants to keep having sex, but she's just not, she's not about it.
	Justified to break up or end the relationship.
	I would say, especially even for marriage, you're supposed to really work through things.
	It's till death do us apart and to just really break something without working through it and trying to find a compromise or middle ground or maybe there's a reason why they're depressed.
	They're not really focusing in their sexual activity.
	There's so many things to talk through.
	Then it's not just surface level black and white.
	Well, sure, I guess there could be problems, but what if those problems are attempted to have been worked through and she still just doesn't want to have sex?
	Then that's a problem.
	Yeah, that would indicate that I would just end the relationship then.
	But you would say it would be wrong to end the relationship for that reason.
	I think I came from the perspective of, like, I've been in relationships before where I felt pressured to engage in sexual activity and I just didn't feel comfortable.
	And that was enough for them to be like, you know, this is not going to go anywhere.
	And I felt pressured to give that to them to keep them around.
	And I don't think that's right.
	I think at the end of the day, like a woman should be able to say no when she doesn't want to.
	And there's so much more to a relationship than just feeling ultimately drawn to sex.
	Like that.
	Yeah, I agree with you that a woman should say no and that should be 100% respected.
	But I don't think I would fault the man who entered into this relationship with the expectation that it would be a component of the relationship would be that it would be a sexual relationship.
	And then she's kind of walked this back.
	I don't think there's anything wrong with him unit, well, him ending the relationship for solely that reason.
	Now, question, you mentioned, let's say it's a deadbed.
	They're not having sex at all.
	Did this happen since the start?
	Or did it just happen towards the end?
	I'd say it's usually a more progressive thing.
	So it's maybe the sex life was better, then it became worse, and then it became non-existent.
	So to me, it sounds like they got into a relationship for, they were sexually compatible.
	Now something is happening within the relationship, within themselves or the relationship that's causing this to happen.
	What if the guy's not doing anything and it's just on her?
	It's just her part.
	What do you mean?
	I don't know.
	She just doesn't like, she's not into sex anymore.
	He's otherwise treating her just the same.
	Is that like a common occurrence for a person that's sexually active at the beginning to just suddenly be like, no?
	I don't think that's very common.
	I mean, I'm sure there's scenarios.
	I'm sure there's like not a never in that.
	Maybe there's a scenario in a case, but that's like an exception, I would say.
	And commonly, like there could be a relationship is through waves.
	You could be going through a financial instability, a job loss, a death of a family, and like you, you're not thinking about sex all the time.
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I'm not like if, for example, like your girlfriend is sick, like let her recover.
	Like, you don't need to be pressing for, you know, I think you can give somebody grace in moments of even if you're horny, like, okay, she's like feeling really terrible.
	I let, you know, we don't need to have sex right now.
	But if it's like, if we're looking at a consistent pattern where she's otherwise okay, but she's not having sex as frequently as he would like, I don't see what would actually be wrong with him breaking up with his girlfriend.
	To me, it's situational.
	If they are working, they talked about it, try to work through it, and it didn't work out, then it makes sense to break it off.
	If it's just there was no conversation and it just abruptly ended things, I don't think that's fair.
	Okay.
	And then Kyla, your position on this?
	It'd basically be like, it depends on why she's withholding sex, right?
	So if it's like to spite him, I think that that's a pretty good reason to end your relationship.
	Like that's a terrible relationship.
	If she just had, you know, vaginal birth and she's in a fair bit of pain and needs time to heal, maybe even a fair bit of time.
	I think good partners are like patient for that.
	So it just, it really depends on like what her reason is and what level of steps she's taken to like rectify that issue so that they can come back because partners need to have sex with each other.
	It's a really important part of relationships.
	Right.
	What is, I mean, this, maybe this is a bit of a dicey conversation.
	What is the Christian perspective on this?
	So you guys are married.
	The wife doesn't want to have sex anymore.
	I don't know what that is.
	Like, do you believe in spells or rape?
	That would be like the question.
	Essay.
	Let's try that.
	No, I mean, I think that's the case, generally speaking, that Christians have a pretty good sex life.
	And if that were to occur and it was a problem, that's something that could be talked about independently with a priest.
	But then there's other aspects, like if someone's sick, you mentioned, like, let's say it's a terminal illness.
	I'm actually not sure what the pathway would be for expectation of sex, given that the person's not temporarily ill.
	Like, does it suddenly bring into question, like, do you have sick sex?
	Do you have like, like, I don't know how that would work, honestly.
	I don't know the answer to that question for every single situation, Jay.
	I mean, there's the notion of the marital debt, which is the idea that in the marital relationship, both parties are expected to sacrifice and engage in things that the other party might not necessarily want.
	And that's expected when you go into the marital relationship.
	So there's going to be times when that happens with both partners, but I think that it's irrational.
	It's unreasonable to have the expectation that people should be always having sex, even in situations where it's like damaging or something like that.
	So no, there's all things within reason.
	And so, okay.
	Next thing, a woman's past should not matter to which Sophia, you agree, and then Kelly, you agree.
	Can I ask just a quick follow-up question?
	I'm pretty sure I'm just genuinely, genuinely curious because I don't know the Eastern Orthodox answer to this.
	Do you guys believe that spousal SA can exist?
	Like, can a wife, for like, and assuming it's not medical, right?
	It's like other reasons.
	Can a wife say no to sex and then the man still have sex with her anyways?
	Like, is that legitimate or would that be viewed as bad?
	I actually, I'm genuinely, I don't know the answer to that.
	I mean, she can do that, and the expectation is that the reasons are rational, that there's good foundation for that.
	What if they're, what if she's just like, I'm really not feeling it?
	Like, she just wants to persist in that, that can become a case for there no longer being a marriage, for dissolving.
	But he wouldn't be allowed to have sex with her anyways, despite what she said.
	Violate people's will in that way.
	Okay, gotcha.
	Okay.
	Woman's passion not matter.
	You agreed.
	You agreed.
	Why is that?
	I agree with it on both parts.
	Like, you just put women, but I think women and men's past should not matter.
	The past is the past.
	Can't do anything about it.
	Sure.
	What about the consequences, though?
	Like consequences?
	Of the past.
	You don't think that matters?
	Like, what consequences?
	Like, people's actions, like who they've been with, if they've had kids with other people, like, nope, nothing in the past matters.
	I mean, if we're talking about kids, like, obviously, the kids are going to be a part of the picture.
	I guess I'm confused.
	Like, I'm just talking about like body counts.
	Like people you've been with, like, things you might have done that you wouldn't do now.
	How do you, how would you determine that that doesn't have a consequence on you, let alone someone else?
	You wouldn't, but I wouldn't judge somebody based on what they've done in the past.
	Well, would have had AIDS or something.
	That's okay.
	Yes.
	Okay, cool.
	Consequences matter.
	It does matter.
	And then your answer: why a woman's passion not matter?
	I also agree that it should be women and men.
	I just think anyone's past is their past.
	Sure.
	If you're focusing, obviously, no, I think you should definitely take into account if it's a huge mistake they did, but I don't think if they're working through it and they're trying to change, what's there to keep bringing it up?
	A couple questions for the both of you.
	So within the context of body count, right?
	Because I could give a bunch of examples.
	But when it comes to body count, to you, Sophia, would you date a guy who previously had sex with men?
	Yeah, I mean, if they're bi.
	You wouldn't have, yeah, sure, he's bi.
	You wouldn't have any issue with it.
	No.
	There wouldn't be some component of a man who just had, I'm not going to say it, but just had carnal knowledge of a man a week before meeting you.
	That's sexuality.
	That would be that they're bi, and they chose to be with a man, and now a week later, they're choosing to be with a woman.
	I don't feel like it would, you wouldn't make any like, so you would date a guy who I would date a bi-man.
	Okay, fair.
	And then, Kelly, would you date your old school and traditional?
	Would you date a guy who previously slept with men?
	So I feel like the old school traditional, like it's being like labeled.
	Okay, forget that.
	Forget that.
	That was just some banter.
	I got you, but I would say, yes, I'm open-minded towards sexuality.
	Okay, so you would date a guy who gets had sex sex.
	I have it's not sex.
	Pee pee in the poo-poo.
	Wait, you've had sex with gay men.
	No, bisexual men.
	Bisexual.
	So they're also gay.
	I just, the gay to me seems like they just only like men.
	How about bisexuals like indicating that?
	Would you, past doesn't matter.
	Would you date a guy who cheated?
	I did.
	Sure, you did, but is it your preference?
	Like, would you prefer to date a guy who has no history of infidelity or a guy who has cheated on every single girlfriend he's been with?
	No, I wouldn't want to cheat be with the cheater.
	Okay, what about you?
	Yeah, no, I can agree with like the cheater thing and all of that.
	I guess when I'm looking and answering that question, I'm not thinking that deeply into it.
	I was like thinking about the rest of your questions.
	Okay.
	But just to be clear, you guys would date a guy who gets fucked in the ass.
	A bisexual man.
	I want you to repeat after me.
	I will date anybody.
	I don't think it's that crazy.
	S the D of a gise.
	I think it's crazy.
	Well, no, you guys soften what it is.
	You try to make it like it's a sexuality.
	It's not even sex.
	All right.
	It's not sex.
	It's literally not sex.
	But you're saying gay sex is not a sex.
	No, it's not sex.
	Is oral sex not sex?
	Not really.
	So penetration is not sex of any kind.
	It's like some type of sodomy or mutual masturbation.
	Even if they reach orgasm, it's still not sexy.
	If I reach orgasm from banging a refugee.
	You guys heard it here.
	If you want to be pure and stay a virgin, just fuck in the ass.
	Then you're saying no sex.
	Can I have sex with a tree?
	I disagree with you, Bob, on this masculine.
	That's what I just said.
	Is masturbation sex?
	No.
	It's sexual activity.
	No, look, we're talking about intercourse, what's considered sex between two people.
	This is where the definition, you guys run with the definition and then soften what it actually is.
	And then it's a way of basically making it ambiguous.
	Like you're making it like, oh, it's just this thing that they do.
	For instance, Kyla, are you in favor of homosexuality?
	What do you mean? Like, do I personally...
	Well, because you say you're a Christian, right?
	Yeah.
	Do I think it's fine for other people to choose to be gay?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Do you think a marriage between two dudes can be consummated with sodomy?
	Like in a spiritual sense?
	Yeah, in like a meaningful sacramental way.
	Like at a spiritual level, I'm not sure if that would be viewed like legitimate.
	I'm not sure my theology on that specifically right now.
	Because I'm not sure if I'm convinced that at a Christian level that like two men can be like unified spiritually.
	Why wouldn't you know that if you call yourself a Christian?
	I don't understand.
	If you want to get into like the theology of it, there's like an important thing of understanding like what the keywords were when they're talking about it and what they actually mean.
	We can like get into the accretion.
	So I don't want to get into a Greek like I have to move it on from this.
	So going to Kelly, going to Sophia, if past doesn't matter, we're speaking about body count.
	Like should men not care about body count basically?
	Like your body count?
	If they want to focus on it, that's on them.
	I think it's shallow.
	It's shallow?
	What about you?
	Are we really like, are we asking for people's body counts when we're dating them?
	Like, are you going on a date and being like, what's your body count before I?
	Yes, we are.
	You are.
	First, not even on the dating app, first message.
	What's your body?
	You strump it.
	No, I don't care.
	Okay.
	So if past doesn't matter, what's your body count?
	I've never actually counted.
	We have time.
	Go ahead.
	Do I have to?
	Yes, you must.
	Okay.
	2 million.
	I see that.
	You give off fucked a nation vibes.
	Thank you.
	The entire nation of Qatar.
	Yeah, something like that.
	Maybe like half of Norway, you know?
	So, do you want to give us the real answer then?
	I don't think past not mattering should be the reason that she outs herself to the it seems like she might answer.
	So I'm just saying, I'm not going to.
	I mean, I don't really.
	I'd rather not.
	Do you want to do a range?
	It's like you could say between 200 and 300.
	Do you want to do that?
	We can all do it, then yes.
	Not just I think all the women here will do that.
	If they all do it, yeah.
	Why do I have to do that?
	So why don't you go first?
	Do you want to do a poll and see if all the women will actually do that?
	I'm just saying.
	I kind of believe they will.
	I think I heard Sophia.
	I don't say she wouldn't do it.
	I feel like, I don't know, that might have.
	I feel like you're trying to make her know what consent is.
	Oh my god.
	I didn't consent for you to wear that necklace today.
	It's free will.
	I've got her necklace graping me right now.
	Okay, so anyways, I'm graping me with the, anyways, whatever.
	Do you want to do it or not?
	If we pull and okay, I'll ask somebody else.
	Body count going this way.
	I refuse.
	Do you want to do a range?
	Like one to you don't have to give the exact number, but it's 10 to 20, something like that.
	No.
	Okay, what about you, Sophia?
	I already said I wasn't gonna.
	Do you want to do a range?
	Is it over 10?
	Two.
	The two people I've dated.
	Okay.
	Sure.
	I believe it.
	What about you?
	I would, but I prefer not to.
	You, huh?
	I would for the show.
	Do it.
	Wait, wait, you're Lexi.
	You're a homie.
	You're the homie.
	You're a big fan of the show.
	You gotta.
	I know.
	You gotta.
	No, but going into it, that was the one question I didn't want to answer.
	Just more out of respect for people like Jay.
	I just don't know if I want.
	I'll tell them, but I just don't know if I want to.
	Do you want to do a range?
	Okay.
	Kyla?
	I'm just going to stick with the girlies at this point.
	Yeah, no.
	Oh, my God.
	Fucking solidarity.
	What about you?
	I feel like.
	Yo, be a fucking legend.
	Be a legend.
	So I am voluntarily celibate.
	So I've been with like 10 to 15 Macs.
	Guys, W's and W's in the chat for 10.
	I say W's the opposite.
	I think it's progress that this show has progressively produced women who have acquired some level of maybe shame or maybe they don't want people.
	Maybe it's the case that it actually does matter.
	That maybe there's a reason you don't want people to know that.
	It's not just personal.
	I understand that aspect, but there is something about it that kind of has a sense of devaluing for yourself.
	And this, I think this still applies to men.
	It's not in the same way, but I think it's a good thing for women to stop celebrating their body count or stop even feeling like they should share it.
	Let's test this.
	If you guys, if I asked you off show later, would you tell me what your body count is?
	Would you be comfortable letting me know?
	I'd rather not know.
	Would you let me know privately?
	Probably no idea.
	Okay, so try.
	I just genuinely think it's none of anyone's business.
	Like I said, past shouldn't matter, which means the number shouldn't matter.
	Gotcha.
	Would you share with me your body count privately off afterwards?
	Would you share with me privately?
	No.
	The body count.
	Okay, so I don't know if it's shame that's doing this necessarily, right?
	Like sometimes it shame.
	Mine isn't insanely high, but I would say it 100% comes from a place of shame.
	I just think, I mean, for me, with my religious beliefs, I think anything outside of marriage is.
	Wait, are you Christian?
	I'm Christian, yeah.
	When you say you're religious, are you waiting until marriage?
	That's something I'm trying to figure out.
	Kind of want to after my whole celibacy thing with the Muslim guy, I'm kind of like, well, maybe I should.
	How long have you been celibate?
	Like a year and a half.
	A year and a half.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Question though: if you were asked on a date privately, not on this podcast, if a guy genuinely asked you because he wanted to know what your body count is, would you then answer, give the answer?
	Yeah.
	Wait, sorry, I was thinking of a different question.
	Would if you were on a date with a guy, you're not on a podcast, he's just asking you privately, would you give him the answer?
	Oh, no.
	You wouldn't?
	No, I just said that I don't think it matters.
	Right, but it matters to him.
	Then he, I don't know what to tell him.
	So let's say he's the perfect guy, perfect guy, but you don't know.
	I mean, I guess you could try to suss it out by being like, well, what would be too high of a body count for you?
	Perfect guy, but in order for this courtship to progress, he wants to know, and he's going to want an answer.
	Would you tell the perfect guy your body count?
	And it could go either way.
	It could be like, he's like, that's acceptable or it's not acceptable.
	So would you tell him then?
	No.
	So wait, you would lose that.
	So you'd lose out on the perfect guy.
	And he might be totally fine with your body count, but you don't know until after you tell it to him.
	You'd lose out on the perfect guy because you wouldn't want to reveal how many sexual partners.
	What makes him so perfect?
	Like, why is he forcing me to tell him something?
	I don't know.
	What's the perfect idea?
	Whatever that is, that's how perfect he is.
	Also, if it didn't matter, you would actually say it.
	For instance, like, does it matter what type of like meals you like necessarily?
	What does that have to do with people?
	What's your favorite meal?
	What does that have to do with people?
	I'm giving you an example of something that doesn't actually matter.
	What's your favorite meal?
	I don't think it matters.
	High-value traditional men don't ask those types of questions from the jump.
	Well, no, I wouldn't want to actually.
	I wouldn't want to ask that.
	No, they don't.
	They don't, Brian.
	Yes, actually, I think a high-value traditional guy, this would be a perfectly acceptable metric by which he could make a determination as to whether he'd want to do it.
	Are you dating anybody?
	How would that be relevant?
	I would grant you not off the jump, but eventually they're going to be.
	Are you single, Brian?
	Yeah, how would that be relevant to the argument at hand?
	It's relevant because you're saying that this is a good metric, but if you're single, I'm saying like, I'm not going to go to some homeless person class in real estate.
	Are you pro-choice or pro-life?
	Me?
	Yeah.
	I'm pro.
	It's none of my business.
	So, okay, you're pro-choice.
	That's it.
	That's the end.
	That's my argument.
	So, okay.
	I'll ask a different way.
	Are you fine with other women getting abortions?
	It is none of my business.
	That is my answer.
	I'm telling you, that is my answer, and it's not changing.
	It is none of my business.
	How about this?
	Do you, if there was a vote that the government, that it was a vote to the populace, the entire populace, yes, abortion should be legal.
	No, abortion should be outright banned.
	Do you say yes, abortion legal or no?
	Ban abortion?
	Legal because it's none of my business.
	Okay, so you're pro-choice, but you have that opinion on it, right?
	It's none of my business, yes.
	Is there any position that you have in, like, is there any topic that you have any position on?
	Yeah, I think gay people should be allowed to marry.
	I think sex between, by saying that, for example, to go back, saying that sex between two men, for example, isn't actually sex, you're basically saying is rape or is rape.
	If a man rapes a stop.
	No, that's not true.
	If a man essays another person.
	I'll stick it to the specific topic we're having, though.
	So do you have any political leanings whatsoever?
	I do.
	I'm left-leaning.
	You're left-leaning.
	Okay, what do you think about the war in Ukraine?
	Like, is it bad?
	I'm truthfully not informed on the war in Ukraine.
	Okay, is war bad?
	It depends if it's an objective evil like the Nazis in World War II.
	It's none of your business.
	I would say that war is justified.
	She's given multiple opinions throughout this entire conversation.
	Which means it is her business.
	No, you can have the opinion that she wants to basically abstain from an opinion on one thing, right?
	Like her.
	It's a performative contradiction that you just want to.
	Yeah, it is.
	To vote on something is to say it is your business because you're participating in a way that it makes you free will.
	She would probably prefer it to be between the doctor and the woman.
	But she's not going to be able to do it.
	If it really wasn't any of your business, you actually wouldn't vote at all on it.
	I would do my civic duty and vote.
	So it is your business.
	No.
	What do you think about it?
	No, it's between a woman and her doctor.
	Who's your woman or them?
	Like a woman and her doctor.
	A stranger?
	Is that her business?
	A woman and her doctor.
	Is your vote in giving you the answer?
	Is your vote influencing another woman her business?
	If my side wins, then yes.
	So it is your business.
	There's no way escaping this.
	I'm just trying to say that if somebody has an abortion, they shouldn't have to tell anybody or justify.
	The point I was trying to make, the point I was trying to get at, is you're trying to say, well, Brian, are you currently in a relationship?
	Because who are you to speak on this?
	So in any case, you're pro-choice, right?
	So you're in favor of abortion.
	Frame it that way, yes.
	Sure, I'll just go ahead and frame it that way.
	Have you had an abortion?
	No.
	Okay, so why are you allowed to make a determination on whether abortion should be legal or not, despite you never having had an abortion?
	In that same way, that was a rhetorical question.
	In that same way, my personal relationship status would have no bearing on my ability to make a determination as to like what would be perhaps good conduct on someone else's behalf.
	No traditional woman will ever wear her body count on her sleeve.
	Would a traditional so I'm saying that you guys seem to like you guys want traditional women.
	No traditional woman will ever tell you her body count on the first date.
	That's maybe like third or fifth date, but the first date.
	If we take it to the ultimate, I mean, a traditional woman would be a virgin.
	Like if we look at the ultimate manifestation of like a traditional woman, she would be a virgin, her body count would be zero.
	I don't see why she would be.
	There's also traditional women that fuck up according to their own worldview, right?
	Yeah, I think you can still be a traditional woman and not be a virgin.
	But this idea that the traditional woman would not share her body count is dubious.
	I disagree.
	Why?
	Okay, why?
	Because it's why should somebody have to say that on the first date?
	That's not the same thing.
	You said the first date.
	You said the first date.
	You guys have been saying the first date.
	Yeah, I think it's totally fine to ask.
	It's fine to ask before the first date.
	Before?
	Yeah, if you're messaging or something, you can ask that before.
	You know what?
	I agree with you on that.
	That way I can unmatch you quick as fuck the moment you ask that.
	If you were a woman who also, who also was like, yeah, I think body count matters, I don't think most women are going to have an issue with that question being asked.
	I'd be curious.
	I think most people have an issue with that.
	So it does matter.
	They have an issue with it because it's a reflection.
	It's a reflection of your own promiscuity.
	Well, what's your body count, Brian?
	How would that matter?
	Because I'm asking you.
	Let's say it's a thousand.
	Why would it matter?
	Give me a real body count.
	You asked for her real one.
	If it was a thousand or if it was zero, why would it matter?
	Exactly.
	No, I'm saying, why would it matter as it pertains to my argument?
	It doesn't.
	Do you think, okay, do you think murdering somebody is bad?
	Body count doesn't matter.
	Do you think murder is bad?
	That's crazy murder.
	Yes.
	Have you ever murdered somebody?
	No.
	Oh, so why are you allowed to have an opinion on murder if you haven't murdered somebody?
	Because it's bad.
	Look, if body count, look, it's really simple.
	If body count didn't matter, and someone you're texting someone for a potential date, and they also thought it didn't matter, but their position was because it doesn't matter, I could ask it.
	It's either or.
	So, why wouldn't you just answer it?
	Well, she already conceded that you could ask it by third or fifth date.
	No, but she said I would unmatch, right?
	It'd be really weird if on Tinder within like the first two hours of talking to somebody count.
	It's her position.
	Hold on a second.
	She said it would be weird.
	I know you're talking for her.
	That's weird.
	So really, you've got to be able to.
	Would you like to pump it up?
	You want to hear one for everybody.
	You said that I'm the exception because I'm the debater.
	So it's reasonable to be aware of that.
	That's actually annoying.
	Shut up for a second.
	You also, both of you have been battling for back and forth together when you get stuck on a question.
	So it's completely reasonable that I can answer and help her out with her answers when she's dealing with people.
	It sounds like you're saying on the like early on, it's very aggressive, right?
	It's like personal, right?
	I agree with that.
	Okay.
	But if it doesn't matter, like, it's almost like, how would it be different than saying, you know, what, what's your favorite color?
	That doesn't really matter either.
	I can say that later on as you get to know the person, it can't, it should be a conversation worth discussing.
	So it doesn't matter.
	But on the very first date, before that, absolutely not.
	Fine, fine.
	But you are agreeing that it does matter because it actually warrants a type of conversation.
	When I say does matter, I don't mean it does matter as in that's a make or break.
	I'm saying it does matter as in if that truly is something you care about, as I get to know you, I'm open to sitting down, having a need to need conversation and talking to you about it.
	Is hookup culture good or bad?
	It's bad.
	It's bad.
	Okay.
	So why would a conversation which would tend to move a person away from wanting to date somebody who engaged in hookup culture, this would be a form of social shaming.
	Why would it be viewed if you were like, yes, hookup culture bad, promiscuity bad?
	Why would it be bad for a guy who's essentially saying, I don't want to date a woman who engaged in hookup culture or who is or was promiscuous?
	You're basically saying something's bad, but you're saying there shouldn't be any consequences.
	Why shouldn't there be any consequences to something that's bad?
	Like, I'm so sorry.
	Can you say that one right now?
	If it's bad, if hookup culture is bad, and as Brian explained, if the consequence of something bad is that men want to know if you've been a part of something bad, right?
	To make their, they're basically going to make a choice.
	And maybe women will make the same choice with men.
	If it is, in fact, bad, if we agree hookup culture is trash, bad things would have consequences.
	But how would you even that that make that basically means we're warrant we're totally warranted and justified in digging in if you're participating in something bad?
	It seems reasonable.
	And if I can piggyback off of what Jim Bob's, unless you wanted to give a response to.
	I'll see what you have to say, too.
	So to piggyback off this, actually, the framing I would give is as follows.
	A guy who's interested in asking you these sort of screening questions, what's your body count or other screening questions as it relates to your past, means that he's generally angling for long-term relationship or he's, don't take this word the wrong way.
	He's, well, I'll just say, he's marked you as a potential long-term prospect.
	So this should actually perhaps even be viewed.
	My framing of it would be, this is actually a flattering question because a guy who just wants to fuck you doesn't really care what your body count is.
	But a guy who's angling for long-term relationship probably is a little more invested in your past promiscuity.
	If he's inquiring as to your past, he's probably a little more invested in long-term relationship and he's maybe more long-term.
	He's he has a sorry.
	No, it's okay.
	It's getting late here, so I'm kind of fumbling over my words a little bit, but he's more interested in the long-term relationship with you.
	So you can be offended by it, but I think the actual framing I would provide here is he's actually doesn't just want to fuck you if he's asking about your body count.
	I disagree and I would still unmatch him, even though he might be a higher value man by his concerns.
	I don't care.
	So I think, I think having a guy who's willing to potentially lose a woman by having these sorts of important, at least in his view, important conversations, I actually think that that's high value conduct in and of itself.
	A guy who's just like, I really don't want to lose her.
	I'm not going to ask her any questions that might offend her, or I'm not going to make any, I'm not going to state anything that might offend her at risk of losing her, even though this thing is something that I want in a relationship, or this thing is something that I value.
	I think that that would be high-value behavior insofar as, hmm, I'm willing to lose the girl because this is a boundary and a preference and a standard that I want in a woman.
	And if she doesn't meet it, then I don't want her.
	But I'm willing, even if I otherwise would like the girl, but her refusal to answer the question would then preclude her from my romantic pursuit.
	He's willing to pass up on a woman under these circumstances.
	I think that would be high value.
	A guy who's pressed for pussy and who's willing to sacrifice on his wants and desires in a relationship, I think that's low-value behavior.
	Also, I don't like the high-value, low-value terminology.
	It's kind of cringe, but just for the sake of the convo, I'll use it.
	Yeah, no, for sure.
	Saying that, oh, you don't want to answer body count that precludes you from being a long-term partner.
	I accept those terms are agreeable.
	That's it.
	Okay.
	What about other things in a person's past?
	Like, do you think that, like, what if he had a background addicted to gambling or something like that?
	Would that matter?
	Chopped, gone.
	We're not dating.
	Unless there's an unless.
	Is he actively like, does he acknowledge this is a problem and I'm in like doing something about it?
	So you're concerned with his past.
	I'm not just not a body count.
	Gambling, yes.
	Is he obligated to tell you if he had a gambling problem and by when?
	Probably when he starts like when we start mingling our money together, sure.
	That's when I have a problem with it.
	It's like when our money starts becoming like let me ask you: is it fair for you to match up with a guy and then you say, I'm sorry, this is out of nowhere, but do you have a gambling problem out of nowhere?
	You just asked that.
	Would it be fair for him to answer yes or no at that point?
	I mean, he can answer, he cannot.
	It's up to him.
	I see nothing wrong with.
	But asking is justified.
	Has he given me a reason to suspect that he has a gambling problem?
	No, no, you just know.
	No, you just kind of know for some reason you have in the back of your mind as a, as one of the things that you want to avoid.
	It could be past-based thing.
	Like you're just like, I want to know if you have a gambling problem.
	And he's like, that's random.
	Is he like he's going to be, you know, you're putting him on the spot, right?
	But we're using this example because if you just swap the gambling and reverse it, and a man is asking essentially a very similar question, actually, are you, do you have a gambling problem?
	Because promiscuity is a gamble in itself.
	So it's like, do you have a gambling problem with your vagina?
	Is what he's asking, right?
	And so if it's fair to ask the man if he has some sort of background problem that has consequences, they should be able to ask the same thing back.
	I'm going to ask him if he likes it rough.
	What the heck?
	Men don't want to marry the town bicycle.
	It's really that simple.
	Somebody sent in, somebody sent this in to me to perhaps help me.
	This will help me better explain this a little bit.
	But so basically, when it comes to this, like these guys not asking you questions to potentially screen you out, essentially women are just, and I'm reading from Hit from his message he sent me.
	It's not a super chat, but it's really good, so I want to read it.
	Basically, women are just really used to dealing with thirsty white knight sim men.
	They're going to placate you for even the chance of a breadcrumb of pussy.
	If they actually challenge you on anything or take a position you disagree with that reduces his chance of sleeping with you, like if you're some liberal chick and start talking about how you want open borders or want to give 10-year-olds puberty blockers or whatever retarded worldviews you have, if a guy wants to sleep with you, he's not going to challenge you on that.
	And that's for two primary reasons.
	They want to sleep with you and don't want to upset your worldview at the risk of losing out on the chance at pussy.
	And then there's just social ramifications for men who communicate these things.
	So basically, a guy who, it just goes back to my point of if the guy's actually willing to ask you a question that might offend you, it would point towards him being willing to lose you, which I think is probably would be considered, I hate this fucking term, high value.
	It's a man with options.
	Well, it's a man with conviction as well.
	It shows that he's stable in his convictions and his worldview and his morals and his ethics, which is, you know, coincidentally, what women end up looking for once they figure out they want to settle down because, you know, they're reaching that age and they realize that, you know, their life's not going to actually turn out the way they thought it was when they were 22.
	We have some chats coming through.
	Truly.
	Truly, he is risen, donated.
	$69.
	W Ortho bros in the chat.
	Chris Tosinesti, Orthodox Cross Emoji, Orthodox Cross Emoji.
	Hashtag fallacy.
	That's referring to last night.
	Oh, right.
	Yeah, B. Thank you.
	Truly appreciate it.
	We have Intel Wild here coming in.
	Uh-oh.
	Uh-oh.
	Here we go.
	Intel Wilde donated $69.
	Not so bright's new nickname is Brestiny.
	She is the female version of the blue-haired Meth Joel Kuma Greg.
	Yeah, he's like one of the best debaters in the world.
	So if you're comparing me to him, that's fine.
	There's tons of body bitches.
	Is that objectively true that he's the best debater or subjectively?
	Yeah, he's definitely like, I would say most people agree is like one of the best debaters in the world.
	Is it subjective or is that objective?
	$69.
	Hold on one second.
	Jim Ball.
	I wish he would press them more on why people's desires matter.
	Tyler was really shocked yesterday at the idea someone could oppose individualism.
	A Christian humanist is insane.
	Deus Svant.
	Wild.
	I agree.
	It is wild.
	Yeah, your guys' fans are a lot like you guys where they're just, I think in Twitch, I unironically, you did this fallacy and this fallacy.
	And I was like, these motherfuckers don't want any mean.
	Because you're wrong.
	Yeah.
	Probably don't know what a gamete is yet.
	You don't want to go there.
	Can you tell me a book that you've read on human sexuality that's scientific in any nature?
	Probably not.
	Yeah, I'm going to move it on just for the sake of time.
	Going to move it on for the sake of time.
	Paul the postmodern.
	All right, let's see.
	We're going to do, here, we're going to do these.
	What would you want the minimum yearly income to be for your future husband?
	Go ahead.
	Ideally, maybe $100,000, but I don't have a specific, like, it's meant more money.
	Kyla?
	Tilt your mic down a little bit.
	My future husband?
	Well, your current husband, I guess.
	I mean, for the last, for most of our relationship, he's made like pretty low money, but zero for a large portion of our relationship.
	You're the breadwinner in your role?
	By and large, I think for now he's going to be making about $4K a month with his new job.
	Now that our views are through, he can get a job again.
	Sure.
	And has that presented any issues in your relationship or otherwise pretty good?
	No, we're pretty good at talking.
	Lexi, what about you?
	I said $48,400 a month.
	$48,000?
	Okay.
	What about you, Sophia?
	I said $100.
	$100,000?
	Okay.
	I don't know.
	I don't really think about that if you want me to be honest.
	Okay, so you would date a man or a woman who worked at McDonald's?
	I mean, no, like, it depends how old are they?
	Like, how old?
	Seriously.
	30, 30, I guess.
	Probably not.
	My fiancé, she makes a lot of money at the job she does now.
	She makes almost $200 a year, like $200,000 a year.
	What'd she do?
	I can't really get into it.
	Oh, you don't need to give like the company she works for.
	Is she an attorney?
	Is she a CP accountant?
	She works with the federal government.
	That's it.
	She works for the federal government.
	So that's it.
	Is she the press secretary for Donald Trump?
	Okay, I would say.
	I don't know how I would say.
	Carolyn, what are you doing?
	What about you?
	I'd say either the same as me or more.
	Okay.
	And question, I forgot this.
	So you're a singer, right?
	But do you have like a, while you're working on the singing stuff, do you have a regular job?
	So freelance is what I do.
	So along with performances and studio writing, I do background vocals for myself, other artists.
	I get paid that for songwriting as well.
	I do teaching piano, guitar, voice lessons, remote, in-person, or then what else?
	Okay, so how much do you make currently?
	Roughly like 5K a month.
	So like $60,000 a year, I think that works out.
	Actually even more than that.
	So you would want a guy who makes $60,000 a year or more.
	Is that fair?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And then you say, and then you said when you end up making.
	So, you know, when you hit it big, how much do you think you'll be making?
	I wish, like, a lot, of course.
	Yeah, of course.
	What do you think about AI music and that whole technology?
	I've been asked about that frequently actually recently.
	I think it's, I don't think it's so, so wrong.
	We do get inspiration from it.
	I don't use it.
	I'm not against it.
	I do think it's quite weird.
	I don't know how I feel about it.
	Yeah.
	Well, they're coming for your job sooner, Jim Bob, than the music.
	Doodles?
	Doodles.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, probably.
	Although they're also going for music.
	Well, they do.
	But wait.
	So, okay.
	How tall are you and what's the minimum height of a man you would date, starting with you?
	5'2, and I would date someone that's the same height as me.
	Okay, Kyla, what about you?
	I'm 5'7.
	My husband is 5'6.5.
	Oh, okay.
	What about you, Lexi?
	5'6 and 5'7.
	Sophia, what about you?
	I said same, 5'2 and 5'2.
	All right.
	At least one inch taller than me.
	At least one inch taller than you.
	And you're 5'8?
	What about you?
	Say at least 5'10.
	And you're how tall?
	5'7 ⁇ .
	Okay.
	Would you rather cross paths with a random man or a random bear on a hike?
	A bear.
	A bear.
	Okay, Kyla, what about you?
	A man.
	All right.
	Lexi?
	Man?
	I said bear.
	Bear?
	I don't understand.
	I never understood what that meant.
	I don't know the discourse about it.
	Like, what's the difference?
	Like, literally, a man or a bear?
	Yeah, literally.
	Probably a man.
	He could probably help me get to where I'm going.
	What about you?
	I wrote neither.
	If you had to pick, though.
	I don't know.
	I feel like a bear is too much.
	A man.
	Okay.
	So to those of you who, I think it was you picked Bear, and then you picked Bear.
	Why'd you pick Bear?
	Because a guy can be more thought out about what he'd want to do to you.
	A bear's not going to torture you for hours, you know.
	Well, they could eat you alive, but essentially you're saying the man could SA you, the bear would not SA you.
	Yeah, it'd be fast and painless.
	And then why do you think?
	Because I've had an experience that would make me not choose the man.
	Okay.
	And I've had comments on my TikToks and stuff.
	That would that made me deeply scared of going into the forest by myself.
	Yeah, but like bears don't have smartphones, so they can't really comment.
	They'd be wise.
	I understand though if they knew a man.
	Grizzly bears?
	Not good.
	They'd say some crazy shit.
	It's just based off experience.
	Based off experience.
	Okay.
	I'm wondering if this changes anything.
	Would you rather be locked in a cage with a random man or a random bear?
	Like a cage the size of this table.
	Honestly, from my experience, I'd rather not.
	I don't want to say it, but I'd rather not be that here anymore than deal with what the man could do to me in the cage.
	You'd unalive?
	Yeah.
	No, I'd let the bear take me.
	Do you think that most men, though, because this is kind of a, part of the issue is that men do really bad, violent stuff, right?
	But the so do bears.
	But the issue is that like, A, when we hike, we pass random men on the trail all the time.
	Like most men are not seeking to do violence to women.
	There's a small predisposition of men that, to be fair, most men also hate that do violence to women.
	But I think most men are good.
	And when like if I was locked in a cage with a man, I'd be like, God, I hope he's not super awkward so we can have like at least interesting conversation.
	I used the elevator situation and someone went ahead and sent me, I'll probably just butcher the stats, but it was astronomically insane.
	How many elevator rides with a bear?
	No, no, no, that would occur daily between a man and a woman alone in an elevator.
	Gotcha.
	Gotcha.
	And so that's like, it's an insane amount of rides.
	And then you measure it against the reported amount of attacks or essays or whatever it is.
	And it's extremely low.
	But that's why it's like where this is taking place suddenly changes everything, right?
	Because if you're in an elevator with a bear, like it's pretty high likely that the wrong move, you're done.
	Whereas the amount of times you're in an elevator with a man, it's like, it's not like the wrong move, wrong, one wrong move and you're done.
	It's like, you're probably just going to make it to your floor.
	So.
	Yeah.
	Did you want to continue with, I agree with everything you're saying on the whole bear thing.
	Oh, I mean, there's a really interesting.
	Do you know how this talking point came around?
	So it was actually a red pill like TikToker guy who would do street interviews.
	Yeah, so he was interviewing a bunch of women and he actually, most women answered a man, right?
	Because that's the reason why I answered.
	The issue is that when he clipped it together, he only selected the women that said a bear.
	And so then what happened is that a lot of feminists felt the need to defend the girlies by being like, no, it's justified for the bear.
	Even though it's like, no, it's not.
	Guys, we don't need to die on this hill.
	This is a stupid hill to die on.
	Like it's absolutely insane.
	Are you saying that women are easily influenced by propaganda?
	I think everyone is easily influenced.
	What about more so?
	You think more so than men?
	The amount of men that are like watching you guys?
	No.
	I'm sorry.
	No.
	Men can be propagandized too just as well as women.
	We didn't ask if they both can be.
	I said, who do you think is more vulnerable to propaganda, women or men?
	I genuinely don't think that there's an answer to this because the type of propaganda that sells to women is not the type of propaganda that would sell to men.
	That's the content is irrelevant to whether or not one of the things that you're doing.
	I'm saying it's equal.
	It's just different things will be more effective with each party.
	I don't think women are.
	You're like a professional non-answer.
	It's actually a skill.
	I want to say I gotta hand it to you.
	It's just an answer.
	I would say it is equal.
	It is equal between men and women.
	When the waitress says, would you like, do you think, do you like cream in your coffee or not cream?
	Do you go into a big diatribe about the distinction between cream and not cream?
	So we talked about this yesterday.
	The answer would be milk.
	The answer would be milk.
	And the second answer to what you're actually asking here is that the world is really fucking complicated.
	It's always complicated.
	That's your answer every time.
	I'm sorry.
	Is partial reserve banking simple or complicated?
	Everything.
	You mean fractional reserve?
	Fractional reserve?
	Yeah.
	Partial reserve banking is another thing that happens.
	Things are complicated.
	Everything's complicated.
	Is that your reasoning?
	No, but a lot of the topics that we end up talking about in social culture is complicated.
	That's why so many people have views on it.
	Do I understand what?
	Anything you're saying.
	What's the difference between fractional reserve and partial reserve?
	So there's a difference.
	I'm sorry.
	We're not going into this right now.
	Do you want to answer what a gamete is?
	You said it.
	Do you want to?
	We talked about it.
	Do you want to answer what a gamete is?
	What about an Agrippa's dilemma?
	I can't answer it.
	Have you read any books on the empiricism of sexuality and bimodality?
	Fractional reserve and partial reserve.
	Interesting.
	So you won't answer questions.
	Because you don't know.
	But I have to answer questions.
	I'm about to say stuff.
	Do you know what a gamete is?
	Because I don't like to ask you to ask.
	Why are you asking him about gametes?
	Because I asked him like 10 minutes ago and I asked you.
	Wait, guys.
	Holy shit.
	Wait.
	Oh, my God.
	A TTS just came through.
	That's crazy.
	The irony of women choosing the bear and then allowing men to participate in women's sports and acting as if strength isn't an issue.
	It's wild eating.
	Timothy, thank you for the message.
	Thank you for the TTS.
	I really appreciate it.
	Final thing on the bear thing.
	Question for you.
	So you pick bear, you pick bear.
	If a white person was presented this scenario, but we changed it a little bit.
	And it was instead of a man, would you rather come across a bear or a black person on a hike and the person picks bear, the white person picks bear instead of the black person?
	Would that be racist?
	I think you're just making it racist.
	How am I?
	Well, I'm not making it racist.
	It's simply just you're asking me if choosing a specific color versus a bear is gonna be racist.
	Well, I don't think, for example, it would be racist.
	I said man.
	For example, I don't think it would be racist for me to ask the following question.
	If you have a deep-seated hatred of a minority group and then you inflict a crime on that minority group because they belong to that minority group, I don't think that would make me racist for asking that question.
	So it's not racist in and of itself.
	So, okay, look, would it be racist, though?
	No, because into the mic.
	No, because I'd still choose the bear because I said bear versus man.
	I'm based off my experience.
	I choose the bear.
	I don't know.
	Okay, well, then I can just, I guess I'll just ask you the question: would you rather come across a black person in the woods on a hike or a bear?
	A bear.
	Because I chose bear versus men.
	Okay, I mean, she bit the bullet on that one.
	So why?
	I'm never gonna, I'm not gonna change my answer because you put a like because you made it into a certain is it because the bear would give you a black eye?
	Like it's oh, she's that's kind of a component of it.
	We're talking about essay at this point.
	We're not talking about rough sex.
	Does it change anything if do you woman or bear?
	Does that change your answer at all?
	A woman or bear?
	Yeah, you pick a woman or a bear.
	Yeah, I pick a woman.
	Okay.
	So in the black person one, though, it could be a woman or a man, but they're black.
	I'd still pick the woman.
	No, but you don't know.
	It's just a person versus bear.
	I'm going to choose bear if it's just a random person and I'm not going to choose a man over a bear.
	But you're not choosing a man, you're choosing a black person.
	No, I'm not.
	I'm choosing a bear.
	Wait, could I, oh, sorry, can I just follow up one more?
	Let's say you choose bear and it spawns in front of you and it becomes aggressive with you, but you get to spawn something new.
	Do you spawn an additional bear or a man?
	Because the bear is now attacking you.
	Do you spawn another bear or do you spawn a man?
	Again, I'm just going to choose a bear.
	Two bears.
	I'm just going to choose a bear.
	I'm not going to make you just, yeah.
	Aurelius in the chat says, whoa, why'd Brian let a KKK member on the show?
	That's crazy, Sophia.
	That's what I'm saying.
	But do you see how you set me up for that?
	Do you see what I meant by saying the question was pretty racist?
	No, I think your answer to it was racist.
	This is actually a really good example of how men can be propagandized too well.
	Because if anyone watching this actually thought that that was a reasonable dunk of you, then they're like actually brain dead.
	I think it's kind of a reasonable dunk.
	And here's why.
	Here's why.
	It's not.
	Here's why.
	I disagree with her answer.
	I just, I'm just not a super reasonable dunk because the black person could be a man, so she's going to pick a bear still.
	Well, for that reason, I guess it's less of a dunk.
	It's still a dunk, though.
	Because essentially, racism bad, yes?
	Yeah.
	Sexism.
	I'm sure that's what she believes in.
	No, no, but do you think racism is bad?
	Yeah, by and large, no.
	Okay, do you think sexism is bad?
	Yeah, by and large.
	Okay, so if you, in this scenario, if it would be racist to pick a bear over a black person, then it so too must also be sexist to pick a bear over a man.
	And you even acknowledge, you even acknowledge that picking the bear over a man is like kind of a shitty answer.
	Sure, but it's not racist because she's like, well, it's specifically black people that I'm afraid of.
	It's because she's consistently not picking men, whether you put a different race or three.
	So it's not she's not being.
	I never changed my answer when you changed the race.
	Optically, she's not a person.
	She's being picked at a bear consistently.
	But optically, despite her reasoning for it, it's optically bad to pick bear over black person.
	Sure, but that's just because you like, again, you like loaded the question.
	She's just being sexist, obviously.
	She's just picking that.
	Fair enough.
	What do you pick?
	I mean, with that kind of context, right?
	It makes it impossible to answer it without being able to do it.
	So that doesn't really apply.
	But do you think you would be racist for somebody to pick bear over black person?
	Is there like a statistic on if I would get a guy or if I would get a woman?
	Well, just it's 50-50.
	50-50.
	50-50, black guy, black guy.
	Do you have better chances choosing the black person?
	You might get a woman.
	Oh, yeah.
	But what if a white person's like, nah, I pick the bear?
	Is that racist?
	Would that be racist if they do make that selection?
	If they didn't consider that option of like, you know, you could get a woman, you know, I guess so.
	Okay, so then they would just be sexist then.
	Yeah.
	They wouldn't be racist, but they would just be sexist.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	But what if it's like, again, if they do pick the bear and they're like, I don't care if it was a man or a woman, I just picked the bear over a black woman or a black man.
	A little arrogant, I guess.
	It's a little what?
	Arrogant?
	Arrogant.
	Yeah.
	Like, what do you mean?
	I say that, like, because you're, I don't know.
	I don't think that that's a very educational thing to say.
	If you choose just the bear and not know any of the other context, then, you know, I don't know.
	What's the question that you guys are asking me?
	I already answered.
	I'm just saying if you pick bear, you're sexist.
	That's my position.
	Okay.
	If you pick bear over man, you're sexist.
	Okay.
	And you have like some pretty shitty views on men.
	So what was the follow-up question?
	Did she say based?
	I said based on what I've seen.
	I thought you were like based like yes.
	So just answer the question without asking questions like that, you know, like what would be the statistic of getting a woman?
	50-50?
	Then you could make an educated guess, you know, or decision.
	But why would you have chosen the bear in the first place?
	I don't understand.
	Because I've been graped before.
	I'm like, what else do you want to do?
	But statistically, you're more likely to survive.
	I've seen, well, I know, because we hear stories of men who drag women out to the desert and leave them there after torturing them.
	But out of a random selection of men.
	I wouldn't have to live with that consequence.
	But the consequence is more dangerous with a bear on average than with a random guy.
	All right.
	We're talking, let's bring promiscuity into it.
	Well, let me, 10 random dudes.
	How many do you think are psychopathic serial killers?
	10 random dudes.
	Would you date a woman that has been violated by a man like that?
	Or would she be damaged goods?
	Does that make sense?
	I think it's reasonable for a guy to not want to date a woman who has her own baggage or trauma from the past, but you want to answer his question.
	Out of 10 random dudes, how many do you think on average would be a serial killer psychopath?
	Probably like two.
	Two out of ten?
	Two out of ten.
	Two are serial killers?
	So do you think 20%?
	Serial killers, but they said or psychopaths.
	Unless you mean that.
	Okay, but you said in your example that a guy would not be preferable because he might torture grape, et cetera, in the case of the bear.
	My imagination is much wilder than a bear.
	A bear is just going to get it done.
	But statistically, are you more likely to survive a random dude out of all the men?
	Isn't that what I want to survive?
	Like, you know, if I was tortured for 10 hours plus, what would I want to survive?
	What do you mean?
	What do you mean is what's more likely to happen?
	Like, if you run across a man, is it likely that he's going to do the most awful thing that you're imagining?
	Or is it likely that he'll just be like, yo, what's up?
	We're on the trail together.
	Or like, if you're in a problem, help you.
	Like, what's the most likely thing that a man would do?
	That's what he's asking.
	Well, I guess I'd have to agree with you.
	I chose the wrong answer.
	Yeah, I mean, it would be better for your long-term survival to choose a guy.
	Okay.
	What do you think?
	I think it's really hard for you to touch on this topic when you haven't dealt with what we've dealt with.
	How would you know that, though?
	Have you been?
	Have you been essayed?
	exactly wait so are you are you saying men but what would that have to do with the statistics of whether or not a bear is more likely than a man to hurt you it I'm saying from what you were just saying, you're speaking from like someone who hasn't dealt with it.
	So you're speaking from someone who, I spoke bare from what I've dealt with.
	And from that's, that was my answer because of what I've dealt with.
	LTSD.
	Yeah, exactly.
	You're just mates here.
	Okay.
	Go ahead, go ahead.
	Well, but the point is that you're much more likely to survive on the basis of the objective stats rather than your subjective experience.
	Is it 100% sure that nothing would happen to us?
	Or are we just going to be able to do that?
	No, you don't know.
	No.
	You don't know.
	You also move through the world.
	Like, I'm sure you guys aren't hermits.
	Like, you go out and about and maybe you go out at night, which there's a risk and a safety concern if you're going out drinking at bars, for example.
	I don't know if you guys do that.
	No.
	Okay, that's fine, but you move through the world in such a way that there's some risk involved.
	I think just being a woman, there's always going to be a risk.
	Correct.
	Sure.
	Well, it's good to know that one thing about the hypothetical is to know and admit that men are actually dangerous.
	Whether or not you're going to be assaulted or anything is different than whether it's descriptively true that men can do things to you.
	So whereas it's always true for a bear, but to Jay's point, if my experience with a certain group of people was that I was, let's say,
	robbed multiple times, I think what Brian is asking in another hypothetical is would it be racist based on my experience with that group of people to choose something other than that group of people's demographic ethnicity category?
	Just even if the stats were actually in opposition to my choice.
	Do you have anything to weigh in on this?
	I mean, to Jim Bob's point here, it's just essentially if it's racist, because here, I'll just ask a simple question.
	So you guys have had bad experiences with men.
	I don't doubt this at all.
	I don't doubt that absolutely there are men who are monsters, who commit heinous crimes, and they are terrible.
	And it's awful, absolutely awful that it happens.
	But would you then say, okay, well, if somebody has had a bad experience with X group, in your case, men, does this then justify you having sort of this baseline fear or hatred or contempt of the entire group?
	Similar to, for example, let's say a white person was beat up by a group of black people.
	Would this then give them justification for the rest of their life to be continuously fearful of black people and have a bias against them and think negatively about them and so forth?
	No, I don't think so.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And then also, just to your point, you were saying how Jay here, you're claiming he didn't have this experience.
	But like, wouldn't this also then have to apply to somebody who's like anti-SA?
	So, oh, who are you to have an anti-SA opinion, but you yourself have not been essayed?
	It would have to apply both ways.
	No, I'm just saying he was speaking for us saying that we shouldn't feel a type of way or we should go at life a certain way when it's just having it.
	But just because he himself hasn't had that experience doesn't preclude him from coming to a determination as to like a risk of a particular scenario or having an opinion on SA.
	I didn't say he shouldn't have an opinion on SA.
	I was just saying that he shouldn't have an opinion on how we both feel about our situation.
	But I was making the point that for your own survival, wouldn't you want to choose the more likely means of surviving a man versus a bear?
	I can just say that I don't want to live if it happens to me again.
	I don't want to go through life again if it happens to me again.
	So I choose bear.
	Point, like, period.
	So you're not concerned with your survival?
	At that point.
	No.
	So it's a hypothetical, right?
	The hypothetical gives you the option that's most likely to result in your survival.
	Not certain, like, it's not a certainty thing.
	It's just you're making the call based on likelihood of things not going bad.
	Like my favorite.
	Whether I've been essayed or not has nothing to do with whether you're more likely to survive with a guy.
	Comparing two aggressors, so if you're comparing a man to a bear, like wouldn't they be equal and aggressive, you know, demeanor?
	Not the potential.
	I mean, a bear can do a lot of aggressive, immediate harm.
	A man can do harm, but we're talking about the likelihood, right?
	So the likelihood.
	I honestly look at this and I think bear, in my experience, I grew up in the mountains.
	And so my experience of bears is actually that they run.
	So I don't actually like the hypothetical because you can spook a bear pretty easily.
	Of course, bears of color attack more than other bears.
	But that's actually true.
	Actually, I think polar bear is the most aggressive technique.
	No, no, and I'm talking about aggressive.
	Like if you're in proximity, the most amount of attacks are from black bears?
	Yes.
	Yeah, but it's proximity.
	I think polar bears are technically significantly more aggressive.
	Yeah, they're more aggressive.
	The white bear is not good.
	The point is that it shows the inability to think objectively and to think hypothetically is the point.
	And so you would choose something that would be damaging to you on the basis of your own subjective experience.
	That's the point.
	I guess we're just fear-based at some point, you know.
	Sure.
	Moving it on really quick on this one.
	So this is for Sophia and Kelly.
	You would not date a police officer.
	Why is that?
	It just doesn't align with what I do in life.
	What do you mean?
	I'm an artist.
	Like, why would I date that?
	So you'd want to date a guy who's a creative, or at least some wet clerk.
	There's some creativeness that comes with law enforcement, I guess.
	I mean, what about a sketch artist?
	Would you date a sketch artist?
	Sketch artist?
	A police officer, but he's a sketch artist.
	He's like, here's the criminal.
	Draws the criminal.
	Still, no.
	Wait a second.
	I actually have a good question.
	Is it an assumption that?
	Oh, sorry.
	Is it an assumption that the person you're with should be like as creative as you?
	Or like, what if it's the case they're more like, I don't know, I don't even know how value how valid these terms are, like type A and stuff, but like more organized, stable, isn't really lofty about like dreams and art and all this stuff, but you are and he loves that you are, but you don't actually connect on that level.
	I'm wondering why that seems like you're making it like sort of a necessity that he's like creative and you know no, I would police officers to me, it just seems like out of pocket.
	Like I don't even, all my friends, people who I associate, even family members, none of them are police officers.
	I just don't find like I would find any attraction towards them or anything in common.
	Let's use Italian.
	I do understand that like opposes attract.
	So your answer to the question.
	Oh, I just feel like they're strict.
	Like I smoke weed.
	I do only fans.
	Like I don't really think we're going to align.
	Lack of alignment.
	Okay, fair enough.
	By the way, guys, we are getting towards the tail end of the show here.
	So we're going to do a roast session.
	$30 TTS for the roast.
	$30 TTS.
	Do that, streamlabs.com/slash whatever.
	If you want to get one in.
	I'm going to let a few come in really quick, but then I do have a few more topics to touch on here.
	We have solo cleric.
	Thank you, man.
	Cleric Katie 3 donated $50.
	I want to say, despite disagreeing with you ladies on a bunch of stuff, I do appreciate the recognition that not all men are violent monsters.
	Yeah, Kyla, you, you.
	I mean, you're pretty reasonable, I'd say.
	So I was a little, I mean, but sometimes I'm not sure.
	I'll tell that to fear.
	It'll be okay.
	He probably disagrees with me on that.
	But I mean, at least your position on the bear thing, you seem pretty reasonable on that one.
	Because we get some pretty crazy answers.
	There's a lot of reasonable people.
	I think, you know, to give some level of levity, I think when people speak out of trauma, it does lead to misinformed evaluations.
	Sure.
	The issue is that, like, I'm not super interested in, like, shitting on people for like their trauma response.
	It's more like, how do we live in a more adaptive, healthy way?
	That's her.
	We have Christine here.
	Thank you, Christine.
	Christine donated $69.
	The question is to show how stubborn and delusional we are.
	Stop making women look insane.
	I hate this question because you all fall for it because you want to be right and we look stupid.
	Thank you, Christine.
	Appreciate that.
	We have Double Agent here coming in with another one.
	Then we have two more.
	Then we'll get back to some Convo.
	Thank you, Christine.
	Appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Double agent donated $29.99.
	Thank you, Double Agent.
	Would you rather be alone with a bear in the woods or a mentally ill man pretending to be a woman in a restroom?
	Before you guys answer that really quick, I want to do a shout out to the Crucible.
	They just sent over a raid.
	I guess Andrew was streaming.
	Hey, Andrew, I don't know if you're watching or if it was somebody else streaming on your account, but thank you so much for the raid.
	The Crucible, welcome, the Crucible crew.
	We've got a great panel here tonight, guys.
	So thank you for the raid.
	The question was, would you rather be alone with a bear in the woods or a mentally ill man pretending to be a woman in the restroom?
	To those of you who picked Bear, which do you pick?
	Bear in the woods or a, I guess it's a transgender woman.
	He's mentally ill or she's mentally ill.
	Sure.
	I guess they're pretending to be a woman, so they're not really trans into the light.
	So they're pretending to be a woman, so they're not technically trans.
	You just said it pretty much.
	They're all pretending.
	No, I'm just saying.
	Or they're just in a bathroom pretending to be a girl in a bathroom.
	And then you open the door and they're not.
	I think we're talking about the same thing here.
	They're obviously not.
	They're obviously like asking, is it like genuinely like a dude who just put on a wig to go be creepy with women or is it just a transition?
	No distinction.
	No distinction.
	Yeah, but the issue is that they're making this distinction.
	What's the distinction?
	Well, they're making it.
	So you have to engage with them on their distinction or don't enforce them.
	And then their answer would be, yeah, creepy men in the bathroom are here.
	Again, I often look when I think.
	I don't know why this is so exciting for you, Jay.
	Thank you, Vector.
	Appreciate it.
	Since Chair 4's objective pleasure is pain, perhaps the best kind of friend with benefits she can get is a porcupine.
	However, maybe she would dump the porcupine too.
	Not rough enough.
	Word?
	Thank you, Vector.
	Good to see you in the chat.
	Vector, what's up, man?
	Oh.
	Realize a network donated $30.
	Jay, please destroy this radical orthodoxy bullshit.
	She claims to read and to have faith bit yesterday.
	It said in the 50s.
	It actually started in 1999 from a singular book by John Milbank, Pure BS.
	I don't know what the 50s thing that they're referencing.
	I also don't think we want to go into an apologetics religious debate.
	Jay, do you want to do like a 20-second long log super quick on this?
	I didn't see the whole.
	Oh, he just says, please, please destroy this radical orthodoxy BS.
	If you can give like a...
	Yeah, I mean, I don't know what or where she came up with her religious views, but they seem to be just made up.
	Made up.
	What is it?
	Well, she said Paul was a postmodernist, which is total nonsense.
	Yeah, I know.
	That's a really fun one for you.
	And so where did you get up your religious views?
	What is it?
	Radical Orthodoxy.
	And where is that from?
	Radical Orthodoxy is a theological movement that's really interested in engaging with the ancient scriptures and the way that the ancients blah Sorry, sir.
	Do you want me to answer or do you not want me to answer?
	That's all I heard.
	All right, we have a Matt.
	Timothy Jeremiah donated $69.
	Transgender bear mauls woman hours before track meet.
	Also noted as having the biggest set of nuts of all participants.
	Okay.
	Thank you, Timothy Jeremiah.
	Your message here.
	Oh boy.
	Okay, I'll.
	Oh my, whoever sent this in here ridiculous, but I'll play it.
	A question for the ladies: Would you rather blow Brian, lay with Jay, or give a joyful to Jim Bob?
	Oh, it changed it.
	Rim job to Jim Bob.
	Terrible.
	What the fuck?
	It changed it automatically.
	Okay.
	Sons of Liberty donated $29.99.
	Chair 2's simp husband has a gun in his mouth at least twice per year.
	Insufferable.
	Jim Bob, isn't it dangerous for people like this to associate with Christianity?
	They'll manipulate and change it.
	I'm simultaneously so powerful and so stupid.
	They can't really change it because it's not Christianity.
	Whatever the hell she just wants to be.
	Yo, Jason Castell, thank you for that.
	And then we have this one coming in, doctrine.
	Then we'll get into a couple questions.
	Doctrine underscore matters donated pretty soon.
	Jim Bob been enjoying your appearances and respect Jay's theological depth.
	Chair One is definition of don't judge a book by its cover.
	Respectful, submissive, beautiful, homemade.
	Hats off to you, miss.
	There you go.
	All right, a little compliment for you there.
	Doctrine, appreciate it.
	Okay.
	This question is kind of crazy, but whatever.
	Okay.
	So this is possibly the dumbest question ever.
	Let's say you're having consensual sex with a woman, and the sex is great, right?
	And you guys have had sex a lot of times before.
	And you're missionary position.
	You're in missionary position.
	Are we men in this case?
	No, you're the woman.
	Well, we're having sex with women?
	No, you're not.
	Like, is it lesbian sex?
	No, there's a man and the woman.
	So you're observing this happening.
	Now there's a binary.
	Okay.
	Missionary position, though.
	And then the woman clearly revokes her consent.
	Clearly.
	She's like, stop, stop, stop, stop.
	Oh, my God.
	This is such an arsler question.
	At what?
	Because let's say the guy's on the down thrust.
	At what point is it?
	Is it like grape?
	Because like, how many thrusts until you got to give the guy at least one thrust because he's on the down thrust and it's gravity.
	So, okay, you're having, and he's going to stop, but it's just like, has he just graped you if you say stop, but it's like the middle of the down thrust and he completes the down thrust, but there's momentum too.
	There's gravity and momentum.
	And there's like two pumps and then he pulls out.
	Were you graped?
	No.
	I'm just.
	This is a retarded hypothetical.
	I'm just.
	How many pumps until it's grape?
	Why would he continue to pump at a whole?
	No, but there's momentum.
	So like, yeah, but you said two pumps.
	There's not momentum to make you go back up.
	Like, is there a water bed?
	There could be like.
	Like, are you on a water bed?
	So he was like, oh, I got a control by the authority.
	I'm trying to get off when I'm going.
	My dick keeps falling.
	Two pumps and then he pulls out.
	He says, he goes, one more.
	No, no, he doesn't do that.
	It's just like he's processing the whole thing and he it's like rapid fire.
	Like it's me personally, I'm not into the like the energizer bunny, like the jackhammer sex.
	I don't like that.
	But some dudes are just like, like the pumps per minute is really high.
	So like within the course of a second, it's like three pumps.
	So the woman says stop, and it's like three pumps.
	At what point is it, like, is he a grapist if he three pumps and then he pulls out?
	He's like, oh my God, are you okay?
	What's going on?
	It's only rape until, oh, sorry.
	I'm so sorry.
	Why did I say that?
	It's only essay until after you vocalize that you don't want to do it anymore.
	No, but so if we're looking chronologically timeline, so you're engaging, he's jackhammering.
	He's fucking jackhammering.
	And it's missionary.
	So there's gravity and momentum.
	Pump, What the fuck is this question?
	So you say stop.
	Yeah.
	But he's already on the down thrust.
	He's on the down thrust.
	Like you wouldn't expect the guy to just like be able to fully stop the thrust mid-thrust.
	At what point is it would it be like if he does the one thrust and he's like pulls out?
	Oh my god, babe, are you okay?
	What's going on?
	That's good.
	But was that chronologically the thrust he finishes the he's a fair question?
	He's halfway through the thrust.
	At what point is it essay?
	Yeah, I'm curious everyone's answering.
	No, this is a serious question because if it was in a courtroom and it went to the testimony of like, I was graped, right?
	Like you would have to detail some of the stuff and you would have to demonstrate like, I said stop, there was one pump over the line.
	What's your answer?
	What's my answer?
	I'm assuming we're asking the panel.
	I would argue that there's some ambiguity here, some leeway, because in the middle of it, you couldn't technically.
	I'm serious.
	I was laughing.
	I could chapp it.
	You couldn't, like, I don't see how you could say, like, after number two, that's grape.
	So when is it, though?
	I don't know that there's a hard answer.
	There has to be a duration of the act.
	So then how do you, in the court case, determine if it was or wasn't SA?
	Like, what's the line?
	You just believe her, I guess.
	That's your answer?
	Yeah, she decides, I guess.
	What the fuck?
	I'm just kidding.
	It was a legal pump.
	It's a legal.
	Is that pumping a legal term?
	Somebody in the chat says it was a legal pump.
	I think that would be a scenario almost potentially impossible to deliberate on because of the- So it would have to be persistent.
	Like a persistent pressure.
	Yeah, like, yeah, you need like some type of regularity in time to induct for anything.
	Well, to conclude anything.
	Yeah, you know, like a pattern.
	Like, is a single second of a transgression long enough to be a pattern to recognize as like, you did that.
	And it's like almost asking like from.
	So if he pumps like once and gets off, you'd be like, he's probably in the clear.
	It's almost like if you had a split second, if you took the position that thoughts themselves could be immoral if you maintain them, like if a thought lasted for like, you know, like milliseconds, did you have a, did you have a bad thought?
	Like, you know what I mean?
	If you, if you grabbed it for two seconds.
	So like if he's pumping down, he hears no and he's like, I'm just going to stick it out a little bit longer so I can enjoy myself.
	Was that, is that what you're saying is SA?
	Yeah, I'm not actually sure.
	I'm not sure if how you determine it in that kind of situation.
	And then you said persistent.
	So like if she's persistently saying no, you'd be like, that's obvious SA.
	Like three no's to three pumps?
	Is that your line?
	Is it even?
	What if it's even?
	I don't know.
	Well, why do you, so the first pump you don't have to stop, but the second and third, you may be two.
	I think the danger, the concern is that it can conceivably be a situation where a woman could turn it into a false grape.
	That's the point.
	Yeah, but yeah, that's why I'm asking, I think it's a good question.
	Like, at what point is it not a false allegation?
	It's a legitimate allegation.
	Is it three no's?
	Is it four?
	The first no.
	Yes.
	Well, he said persistent no, so I was wondering if he meant like you need more than one to affirm that it is a true no or something like that.
	People in the chat are saying once she says stop, you stop.
	I 100% agree with that.
	But the reality in the scenario, there would be gravity and there would be momentum.
	So it's like if a woman says stop mid-thrust, let's not forget, okay, let's ignore like thrust two and three.
	Mid-thrust, you have gravity and momentum going.
	What if the guy doesn't have the physical strength to literally essentially do like a first plank despite the existing momentum that has occurred?
	No, I that guy shouldn't be having sex.
	That's a weak ass.
	We're missing something very simple here and clear is that the for communication to be verified, the one speaking needs a response from the person who you're speaking to.
	She says no.
	So then you'd have to know that you'd have to know that he heard you say no.
	That's a necessary component that we're missing.
	Now, only after she knows that he heard, that then from that point on, that's where you start counting seconds for thrusting, Brian.
	And how do you tell if the guy, like the bad thought, right?
	The guy who hears the no, he processes it, but then he's like, I didn't really hear no.
	Like, how do you gauge that?
	Oh, yeah, that'd be wrong.
	No, no, no.
	It's not gauge if that's happening for the woman.
	It's going to be in the woman's hands to make sure, did you hear me?
	That's where the communication has to go.
	It's like this.
	You know how easy it is to write someone an email and be like, I wrote you an email.
	But if you didn't get the response that they got the email, you can't really hold them to that you wrote them the email.
	You have to know they respond.
	That's why communication, you should always call people directly so you hear their voice.
	Yeah.
	Similar like that.
	So with if she says no and he doesn't stop and she doesn't follow up, then it's never really essay.
	It could not be because there's no verification of communication.
	He could have thought that she said, oh, like, you know what I mean?
	Like, there's a matter, there's so many ways to interpret sounds, you know?
	And so.
	But also she would conceivably be like pushing.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So that.
	What if she freezing?
	What if she freezes?
	Like, she stops engaging.
	Because a lot of women will claim that they froze, right?
	Yeah.
	Which is why they didn't push away or verbalize anything again.
	I mean, I think there should just be a kind of standard if you could, like, if you knew like the ultimate parachute poll is like just like clawing at the guy.
	Basically.
	Maybe we can get the women to weigh in, though.
	If you were having sex with a guy and he was on top, whatever, and he was going to pound town and the pumps per minute are really high.
	I want to say 100, 120 pumps per minute.
	That's two pumps a second.
	And you love this guy.
	This guy's great.
	The sex is consensual, whatever.
	But I don't know, maybe you're like in physical pain and you just say, oh, stop, stop.
	And then like at two pumps happen.
	This is such a dumb question.
	I don't know.
	Two pumps because of speed and momentum and gravity.
	Like you would be like, would you feel like that'd be okay, right?
	Yeah.
	Yes.
	Two pumps.
	Yeah, I wouldn't consider that.
	I can't believe I'm having this conversation.
	Two pumps, Kelly?
	I wouldn't consider that, I say.
	You wouldn't consider it.
	Yeah.
	I feel like if he like stops within the first two seconds, he's in the clear.
	Okay, got it.
	Me personally.
	Because there's like processing time.
	What if he's like, you got pro you got your processing too?
	But like, because chronologically, though, like, wouldn't you, couldn't you conceivably make a legal case of like, okay, chronologically, you should you said stop.
	I don't know if they're going to be going off of pump counts.
	I think they're right.
	They'd have to call it something.
	There's got to be a metric.
	Yeah, but they're probably going to be looking more at like his reaction immediately to it.
	Like, is it clear that he heard it?
	And did he aim to try to stop in any human reasonable?
	If he stops within like two seconds.
	Right.
	Then I think most courts would probably feel fine with that, right?
	I think we've kind of already answered that.
	But like nobody in the court would be like, well, 1.5.
	Well, no, the question is, like, you got to ask the, in reverse, you got to say, what's the longest amount of time that's permitted for it to be considered stopping?
	I guess I would throw it back to you.
	I'm not really sure what longest.
	Because if two is.
	Everyone agrees twos?
	I don't think anyone agreed two pumps specifically, right?
	We're now about two seconds.
	Two seconds time.
	We're about seven.
	Seven seconds?
	I'm going to let some chats come through here.
	Alec Lewis.
	Hey, be nice to my girlfriend.
	Sophia is literally an idiot and a 304.
	Be nice to me.
	That's all good then.
	Very good thing you're not married to me.
	All right.
	We have Realizer for this.
	Realizer Network donated $29.99.
	Yeah, thank you, man.
	To Clarifidi Yatay, Not So Bright said Yeeter Day that she thought radical orthodoxy started in the 50s.
	That's a lie it started in 1999 via one book by a guy named John Milbank.
	It's heresy WJ Dyer Okay, sons of Liberty donating $29.99.
	Hoping Trump suspends habeas corpus, finally round up and deport lips.
	America will heal overnight.
	This panel is full of degenerates.
	Never married women telling married men how relationships work.
	Okay.
	Thank you for that son of a bitch.
	Mr. Pump, how many pumps does it take to be called a graped?
	And that's to you, Brian.
	It depends on the pumps per minute.
	It's hard to say.
	Share one.
	If you could snap your fingers and make all of your tattoos go away, would you do it?
	Knowing it might massively increase your chances of finding the man of your dreams.
	Absolutely.
	I've thought about this a lot.
	Do you still get tattoos done?
	So when's the last time you got a tattoo?
	Last year, and it was in commemoration of someone who passed.
	When did you get the neck piece?
	Three years ago.
	Three years ago.
	What's the first one you would remove if you had the time and the money and the ability to withstand the pain of the laser?
	The visible ones, for sure.
	Do you have any face tats?
	What does that say?
	It says noodles.
	No, this is Imperial.
	And then it goes along with this one.
	It says forbidden fruit.
	Do you have any red flags?
	Just curious?
	Like.
	I have a terrible bedhead.
	I don't know what.
	Is that a sex effect or something?
	Oh, bed.
	Your hair.
	Yeah.
	I'm an idiot.
	Okay.
	Like, do you have BPD or anything like that?
	Bipolar?
	I am.
	No.
	Any BPDers at the table?
	Any BPD enjoyers?
	Borderline personality disorder?
	Bipolar?
	Anybody?
	Autistic.
	Spider-Man disorder.
	I love that for you.
	Okay, we have Jay Nico here.
	Thank you, man.
	Wow.
	You know what?
	That's a crazy bro.
	She's like the diddy of the red pill.
	She's got some dirt on me.
	She's been blackmailing me.
	What about that Mexican man?
	There's more to the story.
	Okay.
	Yeah, no, she's got photographs, videos in a safe behind a portrait of Bill Clinton.
	Okay, we have Billy Bob here.
	Wait, did I already do this one?
	Billy Bob donated $30.
	Erudite is a pig snake and a dummy.
	We appreciate you sacrificing your brain to listen to her illogical statements and then have to remap your brain wiring to correct her.
	Christ is Lord.
	Thank you.
	Doctoring underscore matters donated $30.
	Jay, I am a Presbyterian, PCA Protestant.
	Taking an intellectual/slash curious interest in EO with no interest to convert.
	Reading the early church fathers, ecumenical councils.
	Overall bookwreck on EO Cunt.
	Eric Vigilant donated $29.99.
	Hello, ladies.
	JB, Jay, and Burrito Brian.
	Burrito Brian.
	Thank you.
	Erudite, good job on the debate with JB and Jay.
	credit to uh good work keep it up shout out vp a b and man 32 god bless you all Maybe super neutral.
	Thank you, Eric.
	Everything I said earlier to chair one also applies to you.
	Hats off to you, miss.
	Chair one and three: would you date a Christian man?
	Yeah, I know, but please remove stay awoke.
	Look at her sunburn, though.
	I mean, I know.
	Redhead is fine.
	It's crazy.
	Okay, probably one of the final things that we're going to touch on here.
	Charlie and Kelly, you guys circled the following to which you agree.
	Men are more privileged in society than women.
	I simply ask, how, starting with Kelly.
	And this is in general, right?
	Not just in the U.S. Because I know there was one that was like about the U.S.
	Yeah, let's just stick it to U.S. or Western countries, I guess.
	For me, I think it just comes down to like we do have equality.
	It's just a lot to do with like the social pressure and the idea of like, I'm a woman, like I'm in the music industry, and I'm put into constant question if I like if I'm good enough and a male counterpoint can be doing what I'm doing or half as much and they're being praised for what they're doing.
	And to me, it's difficult.
	It's frustrating.
	A lot of women have spoken about it.
	A lot of women also in the industry tend to be put into uncomfortable situations to be able to advance in their careers, whether it's sexually or just in general, harassment.
	Yep, that happens.
	Yeah.
	Casting couch.
	Yep.
	But so.
	You said casting couch?
	Well, it's like in the Hollywood entertainment industry, the casting couch.
	Like, oh, what was the guy?
	The Harvey.
	Yeah, he was like, I'll give you this really good role in the Tarantino flick if you do some, you know, whatever.
	That, yeah, so that's definitely disgusting.
	Definitely happens also in the music industry.
	But I'm a bit when it comes to privilege, right?
	So you say men are more privileged in society than women.
	At least as it relates to the music industry, Taylor Swift is one of the highest, I think, is the highest earning musical artist.
	There's plenty of women who end up being incredibly successful in the music industry.
	I don't, I kind of fail to see how men are more privileged in society as it relates to the music.
	Taylor Swift even has a song called If I think it was like If I Was a Man and she writes in the song that she has overcome a lot of obstacles as a woman.
	She's been questioned.
	She's been looked down upon just for simply being a woman.
	And in the chorus, she says, but if I was a man, it wouldn't be the case.
	She's the apex of the music industry.
	Well, I mean, she's worked hard and she is successful and widely successful, but she's bringing up a lot of points about women still overcoming a lot of obstacles in these big industries, in this case being the music industry.
	There's a lot of double standards.
	There's a lot of questioning.
	Where's the privilege, though?
	Men don't have to really go through that.
	Go through what?
	Double standards, being questioned if they're good enough.
	No, I just said in big industries, not just the music industry, in any industry, I feel like a lot of there's a lot of double standards for women that men don't have to overcome.
	I would be willing to grant that women have unique experiences when it comes to moving through the business world or various industries, whether it's the music industry, entertainment industry, that are perhaps, again, unique to women.
	But it's kind of just there's so many successful women in these industries.
	You look at Taylor Swift.
	She is the apex of the music industry.
	She's the highest earnings.
	She's incredibly successful.
	You look at other women.
	I actually think perhaps if I look, I'm not an expert in the music industry, but women are doing remarkably well in the music industry.
	They are.
	So I just don't understand this like.
	But still, does that take away the fact that we have to overcome double standards?
	We have to work twice as hard as our male counterpoints are.
	I'm not sure if you have to work twice as hard as a man.
	What do you mean?
	By working twice as hard or just like double standards?
	Well, you said that you work twice as hard as a man in that industry.
	How do you know that or show that?
	Well, a lot of the times we're objectified.
	We're taught to, you have to look a certain way, act a certain way.
	You have to be sexy.
	You have to, you know, show skin to be able to sell.
	And I feel like, do men have to overcome that?
	Do they have to objectify themselves to be able to market themselves as an artist?
	I mean, in entertainment, any person trying to come up in entertainment is going to get made fun of.
	They're going to get ridiculed.
	They're going to have to go through all the same struggles.
	So this doesn't prove privilege.
	That's what Honor says.
	Where's the privilege here?
	Privilege to me is the fact that you don't even have to go through what we have to go through.
	But we go through the same ridicule, the same struggle to be successful, to be entertainers.
	Not all.
	If I get jeered if I do bad at a performance.
	The examples I just gave, like objective, sexual objective, sorry, sexual objectification, is that similar to what you guys are going through?
	Like, I don't think it's as much as women go through.
	So if I go through it.
	So the only thing that proves privilege is that I'm not sexually objectified.
	Well, that was one of the points that I gave.
	That's one of the points that I gave.
	I think you should say more of the music industry, not just like pop stars.
	Like, I get it.
	Like, a lot of us aren't, you know, aren't at that caliber of Taylor Swift.
	Doesn't mean that just because we're not at that fan base, we're not going through the struggles that any person in that industry is going through.
	My idea of privilege is women, at the end of the day, they are being objectified.
	They're being told that they have to look a certain way, act a certain way.
	People in upper management, if you don't.
	Should they try to look attractive in those positions?
	It's like sex sells.
	It's always like that.
	It's always like sex sells.
	So you support that or you don't like that?
	I support it if that's what you want.
	I'm not saying it's bad.
	But it's not a strong.
	I don't think it should be shoved down our throat so much as it is.
	Did anybody force you to dress the way that you're dressed currently?
	No.
	And then, I mean, do you post like revealing photos on your Instagram or do anything like that?
	I do.
	I don't find that being a wrong.
	Yeah, but are you like forced to do that?
	How are you objectified if you're supporting that?
	When there's people pressuring you, that's different from free will.
	Like, if I'm just feeling myself and I'm posting myself in revealing clothes because I want to, it's not the same as if somebody was like a manager.
	Hey, Kelly, I think you would sell more records if you were to show more skin.
	But pressuring doesn't violate your free will.
	Your free will actually disproves that pressuring kinamat effect.
	Like pressuring can affect you, but your free will can actually overcome pressuring, right?
	Say that one more time.
	Like, you still have your free will to overcome pressuring, right?
	So you're saying there's a pressure in the industry that tells you to sell your sex, like sell your sexuality, show more skin.
	It's going to help you in the game, right?
	A lot of times we don't have choices.
	There's a documentary that just came out for Carol G. She's probably like the Taylor Swift version of the Spanish Hispanic community.
	Carol G. Tylo?
	Carol G. Caro.
	Carolyn.
	Carol G. Carol G. Really quick question.
	Are you signed to a record label or are you in the middle of the day?
	Independent.
	Independent.
	So who is telling you to do the objectifying behavior?
	So I'm not saying it's me.
	I see it in the community.
	I have gone through that, but I'm talking as a world.
	Oh, so you're more of a world mind.
	You're talking the zeitgeist.
	I have everyone that my network, I've heard it through, yeah, the culture.
	So wait, what about this?
	So there's a documentary that demonstrates what's happening.
	Okay, thank you.
	Yeah, so she is, she mentioned that when she first started off, she signed over with a manager that she was 16 at the time.
	He was probably around 50.
	He said to her, I have so many plans for you to become a pop star, but in order for that to happen, you have to be with me.
	I'm sexually attracted to you.
	Okay, well, that's a predator.
	But if that doesn't occur, then your music industry is not going to happen.
	There's no yes or no to that.
	I don't think we dispute that these things absolutely do happen, especially in the entertainment and music industry.
	But wait, there's no yes or no to that?
	What do you mean by that?
	I feel like if that 16-year-old she was alone.
	She moved alone to I'm not denying that's predatory, like that's disgusting.
	That's like someone literally seeking out a weaker person.
	But it brings it into question, like, what is a 16-year-old doing in that scenario?
	Like, who's the guiding?
	Like, if this, if this industry is so horrific, it seems like you would want more guidance and oversight with situations like that.
	Of course.
	I mean, she was in a room alone.
	She could have told her parents.
	She decided not to.
	There's so many like gray areas, middle grounds.
	Some people just don't feel comfortable talking about that.
	She even said in the documentary, she was like, I'm really uncomfortable even bringing this up because this could ruin numbers and she doesn't want to risk it, you know?
	But this, you know, this thing also happens.
	There are plenty of like, especially boys who are like child actors who are victimized in just the same way in the entertainment industry.
	There's like countless and countless examples of men.
	And isn't there something going on with Justin Bieber right now?
	I don't know the details of it.
	Aren't they look?
	I don't know.
	But he wasn't he like when he got into the industry, some stuff with Diddy.
	I don't know the details, but it doesn't seem like this is a uniquely female thing.
	But just to move it along a little bit, besides the music industry thing, you say men are more privileged in society than women.
	Anything else besides the music stuff?
	Going to you, you say men are more privileged in society than women.
	Why is that?
	When I circled, yes, the first thing that came to mind is how when a male walks into a hospital and he's a patient, he's taken way more seriously than a woman.
	And I see that firsthand.
	That's it.
	That was just, that was my psyche behind it.
	What do you mean?
	You're saying that's been your experience?
	No, that I've seen that happen.
	Oh, because you're paramedic.
	EMT, but I've seen that happen to where like a man will say like things that aren't normal with him.
	And then the doctors are going to be like, let's do the full scan.
	Let's like, let's do a head-to-toe on you.
	But like when a woman says something like that, it's kind of like a broken arm swing.
	Hold on.
	Just a couple clarifying questions here.
	You're EMS?
	Yeah, I'm an EMT.
	You're an EMT.
	And then have you seen this new, it's really, actually a decent show, even though it's kind of woke.
	The pit.
	Have you seen it?
	I've never heard of it.
	EMS, though.
	And so you drop people off at the emergency room?
	Not with the job I currently do.
	Where would you drop them off?
	Well, you said you were EMS, so you'd be transporting.
	In my past, so there's two types of EMTs.
	Or EMT, yeah.
	There's non-emergency EMTs.
	They do like the taking grandma to like dialysis.
	So like the non-empty.
	You're doing emergency, right?
	In the past, yes.
	Currently at my job right now.
	Is that the emergency EMS thing?
	That's where you witnessed these men being taken more seriously than the women.
	I don't think it's necessarily like, oh, like it's not overt, like, oh, you're a man.
	I'm taking you seriously.
	But that's where you're like.
	It's more like if a guy says this and this and this and this is wrong with me, a doctor's going to be like, let's do the whole thing.
	Let's do the whole nine different things.
	But you said you witnessed it in your own field of occupation.
	Yes, I have.
	But when it comes to EMS, typically when you, well, I guess if you're emergency transporting some, because there's long wait lines in the emergency room, don't you typically just drop them?
	No.
	But how long do you stay with the doctor to make the determination that like you stay the entire course of the patient being there at the hospital?
	Like, don't, isn't it, you go in, 62-year-old male, ventricular defib, boo-boo, you give them a bit of details.
	The hospital takes, I guess, they take the patient and then don't you go back to work?
	Yes.
	By and large, like, yes, that's how it happens.
	But sometimes, you know, the doctor and you will have like a sidebar conversation and you're kind of seeing where the doctor's coming from.
	I've seen doctors that say, oh, she's definitely being a hypochondriac.
	And I'm like, I don't know if she is.
	The doctor is consulting.
	The emergency room doctor is consulting with a EMS.
	Okay, go ahead.
	I'm not saying consulting with, but sometimes we have sidebar conversations where like, I'm like, hey, like, you know, what do you think it is?
	And we talk about it, like, you know, because that it's not violating HIPAA.
	It's two people talking about a patient.
	And sometimes the doctor will say like whether they actually take it seriously or not.
	And that's just kind of like the behind the scenes doctor.
	Do you think there's a disparity between hypochondriac between men and women?
	The phenomenon?
	Like, what do you mean?
	Like, is it more likely the case that women will think something's terribly wrong, freak out about it, and it turns out it's nothing versus a man thinking something's terribly wrong and freaking out and nothing's wrong?
	To be honest, in my experience, I've seen it pretty evenly divided amongst sexes is that there's hypochondriacs on both sides, but I've noticed that men that are hypochondriacs are still taken more seriously than women that genuinely are hypochondriacs.
	So then how would you determine that it was because they were a man then?
	Or are you just pointing out something you witnessed, but you're not sure?
	I mean, you're never going to be able to pinpoint and say this is why, because I'm not in someone's head, so I don't know what they're thinking.
	Just to move things along a bit, but so men are more privileged in society than women.
	Are there any other examples you can provide besides your alleging that men get taken more seriously?
	Alleging.
	Yeah, alleging that men get taken more seriously in the healthcare setting.
	I mean, I could sit down and like, if I did like more research, I could like bring up the pressure.
	Well, anything, sure, anything that just comes to mind.
	I don't, like, we obviously, because we have to move things along, I don't have that type of time right now.
	Well, you don't, you don't have to go detailed, but give me like one or two things of like how men are more privileged in society.
	I definitely think, well, it's slowly getting better now, but let's say crash test dummies, for a while they were just male dummies, and that actually matters when it comes to like.
	I mean, they're not humans, though, aren't they?
	Just no, but like male torso, like male, like male torso.
	And you can laugh, but that's actually like a real study is that the points of impact are completely different when you hit something.
	What about how do they test someone who's trans?
	Well, it depends.
	There's different stages.
	Kyla?
	What the fuck?
	No, no, but seriously, though.
	I mean, I guess the sexism of seatbelts, I guess.
	But like, how does that mean?
	How would a crash like materially be that different?
	Well, it's not that it's necessarily like, oh, seatbelts are sexist.
	That's not necessarily what I'm getting.
	Anthropometry, right?
	Like men typically have a wider shoulder girdle in riding, for example, if you ride horses.
	Like in general, male center of balance is significantly higher than women's.
	And so like when it comes to like a female test dummy, one thing you want to like.
	Not a binary men's mind.
	Yeah, but true sexist is the job and it's bimodal, but bimodal sexist.
	I don't know if this is compelling at all, but isn't it also the case that men are more likely to be involved in like catastrophic road accidents?
	But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be testing road safety for seatbelts that aren't.
	Sure, that's fair.
	Not for exceptions, though.
	Both sexes drive.
	Yes, both sexes drive, but like I often hear from feminists like, oh, well, you know, the reason for why men pay more in car insurance is because they're more likely to get into accidents.
	Fatal car accidents.
	Women actually get in more accidents on average.
	It's just awesome.
	It's awful.
	It's so terrible.
	Okay.
	What would be the justification of not making sure that seatbelts protect both types of typical anthropometries of the sexes?
	Well, who's to say that this is just not a proof of male privilege?
	Yeah, well, also, who's to say that because the crash test dummy is male, that this wouldn't, like, that the people testing this and doing a study set out with the intention of solely testing it for men?
	Like, they're like, okay, we're just going to do determination on impact, and we're just going to come to a conclusion that using this test dummy, the damage that's caused to the man is going to be like, it's going to be pretty similar to the damage that would be caused to a woman.
	I would just say, A, the scientist is failing the generalizable principle, and they probably shouldn't be doing that.
	And then the second question would be, why would they like default assume that the like male torso should be the one that's used, right?
	And in medical science, probably what you're saying, I don't even necessarily agree with the like privilege point, but to the medical science, I think there's just a really long history of typically testing and studying male bodies and finding results that don't generalize well.
	Well, I actually have to gripe with this.
	I actually think it's evidence of female privilege that they don't find themselves in the bottom rung of society that they need to allow their bodies to be medically experimented on.
	So this idea, yes, because if you look at medical experimentation, drugs, surgical procedures, these are overwhelmingly tested on men because men are more, I guess, either they're more willing.
	Well, hold on.
	Mostly because college athletes is the most common medical testing group and college athletes are disproportionately male.
	I'm not sure if that's even true.
	I'm telling you that's why.
	I don't think it's evidence of male privilege that they're getting like various medicines pumped into them that could like that are being medically tested on.
	I think that that would point towards female privilege that they don't find themselves in positions in life where they need to be paid a couple hundred bucks to be pumped full of some like totally detrimental like experimental drug.
	I don't know how it's male privilege to know what your symptoms of heart attack are but not know what like a female's symptoms of heart attack.
	Are they fairly comparable?
	They're not.
	This is actually a really big issue is that when women have a heart attack, they often feel like they're having like gut indigestion, which is why a lot of females will be found dead on the toilet from a heart attack, whereas the common symptoms of like the pain rating down the arm is significantly more common in males.
	Yeah, sure.
	I'll even grant that there's differences between this, but that still doesn't address the medical experimentation point where why is it that it's not experimentation, right?
	Like science is serving a population.
	Figuring out how to help people with medical science is usually good for men.
	Because you talk a lot about subjects that I don't think you're actually good at reading literature.
	I've been using it.
	She actually was when she was mentioning the gut thing and she was asking me.
	No, I'm not asking if she's right about that point.
	I'm saying, do you have any medical training?
	You don't need training in any sort of area.
	To diagnose people's heads.
	You're talking about heart attacks in men and women.
	I'm not diagnosing you with a heart attack.
	I'm telling you about an empirical study that was done on heart attacks.
	What empirical study?
	I don't know the name of the study.
	Really?
	Did you read a study?
	Yep.
	Okay.
	On heart attacks between men and women.
	Yeah, this is the same thing.
	But you have to know what you're doing.
	I'm not an artist in EMT.
	No, she's not going to help you.
	Help me.
	Because she's not.
	I mean, EMT has some medical training.
	Are you trained in medicine?
	And so you have a study that you claim you've read.
	Are you disputing what I'm saying?
	Do you want to take a look at that?
	You want to know where you get this?
	I'm not appealing to authority.
	I'm just citing a study.
	Wait a minute.
	No, actually, if you think that proves your case, it would be an appeal to an authority.
	Does it prove your case?
	I'm not medically trained, nor am I claiming to be.
	Do you think the appeal proves your case?
	It seems like you think it is because you're asking me.
	Can you ever answer a question?
	I have answered so many questions, Jay, that it's actually a problem.
	This question, not the other ones.
	There's so many questions you still won't answer from me.
	Okay, so here we go.
	This is your favorite talking point.
	I know.
	This is a child.
	Again, if a five-year-old child means somebody who answers your questions and then at some point rebuts with a Socratic question in return, then I guess sure.
	That's not how rebuttals work.
	You can rebut with questions.
	It's dodging a simple question.
	You can rebut with questions, and I also answer your questions.
	You don't know the papers.
	You just say that there's this paper that you read about heart attacks.
	So are you telling me now that that's a good idea?
	I can tell you the titles of books about the public.
	I just want to know your sources.
	I don't know the name of the study off the top of the studio.
	How do we know that you're saying anything?
	Go ahead and Google it afterwards.
	Just Google it.
	Yeah, go and look for Google you don't know.
	That's your answer is Google.
	I don't know the name of the study or who did it.
	You can look at Google the study.
	I don't know if you know how Google works.
	It's pretty sophisticated.
	You could probably put para.
	This is not a problem.
	You just say things and there's nothing to back it up over and over and over.
	That means you're an empty suit.
	That's the point.
	So are you saying that there is not a study that's not going to be available to you?
	I just want to know for you.
	I want to know for you.
	Do you disagree with the study?
	I want to know from you.
	I've answered you.
	Do you understand?
	That's not what the Socratic method is.
	Do you disagree with that?
	It's a dumb debate trick to avoid questions.
	Do you disagree with the study?
	I don't even know what you're talking about.
	I don't know what you're talking about.
	I don't believe that there is a study.
	I can remind you what we're talking about.
	There's no difference in these heart attacks.
	There are authors or titles or studies.
	You just say that these things exist.
	Yeah, I don't spend a lot of time memorizing titles of studies, but that doesn't mean that I'm not afraid of the students.
	Then you're not actually competent in these matters.
	You would know that.
	There's no mushroom, no doctor's resource.
	I'm not actually because I can't cite my sources.
	No sources.
	Just assertions.
	Just dispute the evidence.
	Are you wrong?
	Do you have evidence?
	No sources, just assertions.
	So heart attacks are not different symptoms.
	I just want to know your source.
	What's the source?
	I don't know the name of the source, and this isn't a dunk.
	So, how do we know that there is one?
	Again, so if I can reference somebody trained in medical science, have you heard about this phenomenon where there was understudied?
	Okay, so apparently in medical studies.
	So you just cited a person who's not actually a doctor.
	Well, she's trained in medical science.
	Or is the bar now?
	An EMT.
	So you're not going to be able to do that.
	So you're literally just finding a person in the room who's had some medical exposure.
	An EMT.
	That's not a doctor.
	I didn't say she was a doctor.
	That's not an academic.
	Is your line for cadulea?
	You believe in that.
	You claim that there's papers and you can't give a paper.
	So are you telling me that?
	Doctors say something.
	So did you believe in every time you ask me a question?
	It's because you can't answer your source.
	I've again answered my source.
	What's up?
	Memorizing the title of a study.
	You don't know any titles of anything.
	I don't need to.
	You don't need to.
	No.
	No subtitles of anything.
	You're a fraud.
	I can't.
	You just expose that you're a fraud.
	I can engage with that.
	No, you have no sources.
	I feel really bad for you because you are going to think that this is some optical dunk and you look so silly.
	All of your citations are made.
	There are no citations of titles to prove whether or not a study give you books.
	I did come pretty much for the medical symptomology of heart attacks between men and women.
	But it's an established phenomenon that people know about.
	You can just look it up.
	Chat can do it for you.
	You don't know anything.
	You just say shit.
	Jay.
	And have no sources.
	I know you're tired.
	I know it's past your time.
	I'm calling you out for being a fake person.
	This is just fallacious, and you know this.
	This is not true.
	What's the source?
	It's going to take a super chat coming up to be like, okay, Jay, shut the door.
	The fuck on.
	You've not named one all night.
	I've named Costello as a source for my source on incel.
	Do you question that one?
	No, my questions.
	Ladies.
	I don't care about your incel payments.
	Ladies and gentlemen, my question.
	Then you don't mind.
	So when I gotcha.
	Ladies and gentlemen, I've got to move it on a little bit.
	I'm going to let some chats come through.
	Oh, my God.
	Okay.
	Time.
	I'm going to let it come through, but it's a little pro.
	Come on.
	Time donated 30.
	Disavow.
	I'm going to disavow this.
	What has happened to you is justified and for a reason.
	Get over yourself and put your tits away.
	Wow.
	Be better.
	That's fucked up.
	Thank you, Tim.
	$30 TTS, streamlabs.com/slash whatever.
	Oh, it's Giovanni.
	Why shouldn't the woman try to discredit Jay because he couldn't distinguish two terms while he tries to discredit her for not being able to name books?
	Two sides of the same fallacious, gingerly coin.
	Ginger.
	As soon as I talk about it.
	She just interrupted.
	It is true.
	I'm glad you could get Slen Maxwell out of prison to have her on the show.
	Wait, who's he's calling me Ghelaine Maxwell?
	Oh, I see.
	Okay.
	Here, let's finish up really quick, then we'll let the rest of the chats come through.
	Anything else when it comes to privilege or just the tired?
	I just want to pass the torch to someone else.
	I'm fucking tired.
	Is it a privilege?
	Terrible cop-out.
	I'm not talking out.
	Do you think women get tired faster than men?
	Like, that explains the gender pay gap.
	Wait, hold on.
	Like, tired is an exhausted.
	Yeah, like bodily, like, they can't keep their energy up as long.
	Longer periods.
	Wait, I don't think so.
	I have a comment on that.
	If you women, you see how lively all of us are, you know, on the male side here, you know, Jim Bob, Jay's got a second wind here.
	You guys are making a really good case for why the pay gap exists.
	So I'd recommend, we've got maybe, I don't know, 20 minutes left or something.
	I'd recommend for the final 20 minutes of the show, you guys, you know, chip her up a little bit.
	That way it doesn't exist.
	So you guys think the pay gap does exist?
	No.
	Oh, not unjustified.
	There's not an unjustified celebrity.
	It does exist, but it doesn't exist.
	Well, it exists and it supports my role.
	Oh, God, just wait a second.
	Which confirmation race do I fall for?
	Kyla!
	I have to ask you, because you're not your typical orthodox leftist, right?
	You're the more reasonable kind, right?
	According to you, do you still argue the wage gap thing?
	Nope.
	Oh, okay.
	I was just wondering.
	It's just interesting that you do.
	No, no, no.
	I think there's a disparity between pay between men and women, but there's a reason for it.
	That's a good idea.
	So you do think there's a different $30 TTS.
	Of course, roast the entire panel.
	Roast me.
	Going to Kelly, you said to 16, women are oppressed in the United States.
	You agree with the statement.
	How are women oppressed in the United States?
	So I know it says the United States, but I do want to just acknowledge if any woman in the world is oppressed, it's going to trickle down to the U.S.
	It's going to trickle down to us women in the United States.
	Wait, question for you.
	Do you know the, I think it's the North Sentinelese Island?
	You know that island where it's like maybe like 100 to 300 inhabitants.
	They're like an uncontacted or mostly uncontacted tribe.
	It's like a territory of India.
	It's this island where they're just, they live on an island.
	No technology.
	If the men were just oppressing the shit out of the women on that island, how would that have any fucking impact on us whatsoever?
	It's social at the end of the day.
	There's no communication out, no communication in.
	To me, that's a very specific example.
	I know.
	I see where you're trying to annoy.
	Yeah, no, you're good.
	You're good.
	But I just feel like at the end of the day, if there's a woman out there that's being like graped and oppression.
	Yeah, okay, grape is bad.
	It's terrible.
	But like oppression, like there's levels a little like not quite as bad.
	They're not being protected by the law for just basic human rights in any country.
	It doesn't make sense why the U.S. do men have a duty to protect women?
	Yes.
	Do women have a duty to protect men?
	No.
	I want to ask this question to the panel.
	So you guys would probably acknowledge.
	You guys would probably acknowledge that men have duties to society.
	You might even say they have duties to women.
	What duties do women have to society or to men?
	I'll just go ahead and pre-play this.
	Do women have any duties to society?
	Raising children?
	Yeah.
	Nice.
	These two.
	W's in the chat.
	Babies.
	Babies.
	Like, what duties do women have?
	I don't know.
	Realmaker.
	Okay, sure.
	Children.
	Supposed to have a place to, you know, make your husband feel at home if he's going to be providing for you in that way.
	What duties do women have, Sophia?
	Do they have any duties?
	Abiding by the law.
	Voting, following the civil.
	Is voting a duty?
	I would say as a person of democracy, yeah, I would say voting is a duty.
	Civic duty.
	Civic duty.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I'll move it on.
	But so, okay, you're saying women are oppressed in the USA.
	You were going to say in other countries.
	But can you explain to me in the USA?
	Because that is the question.
	How are women oppressed in the USA?
	I think we tend to forget that the U.S. is composed of many different races.
	And I come from a Latin background.
	I was born in the U.S. My parents are from Costa Rica, so I'm first generation.
	I see a lot of Latin women, especially in the U.S., that go through a lot of It's within the community.
	It's brought from our countries into the U.S.
	And I acknowledge that.
	It's a lot of oppression, a lot of abuse, marital abuse, relationship abuse, a lot of people.
	You're talking about like machismo?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Is there anything, how about this?
	Like state down, government down, any oppression on that front?
	For the government.
	For women.
	Like, are women oppressed under law in any sort of way?
	Abortion is illegal in certain states, which I think is a human right.
	It's a human right to end a human life.
	How did you get it?
	Abortion debate here at the end.
	But I'm curious, though, because we're saying women are oppressed in the USA.
	Men can't get abortions.
	It's not clear to me if there's like an asymmetry in terms of anything there.
	Well, here's an asymmetry.
	If a woman has the right to terminate a child, but if she decides to keep it, the man has to pay for it.
	So he has no say in whether she's going to have it or not.
	But if she does have it, he has to pay for it, right?
	Is that privileged?
	Who's privileged in that scenario?
	It's a good question, Jim Bob.
	How about the crickets?
	That is a good idea.
	Here, I'll play that shift.
	Go ahead.
	There you go.
	Say that one more time, actually.
	If it's your human right to end the continued life of another human life that starts at conception, you get to do that, right?
	That's your right, which needs to be upheld and protected by men, right?
	You know, your rights are protected by men.
	So if you decide to have the child, a man who has no say in whether you have the child or not has to pay for the child.
	Who's privileged in that scenario?
	I see where you're coming from.
	I don't think.
	So in these states, women don't even have the option to have an abortion.
	Let's grant you, you have the freedom to have your liberated termination of your own child.
	Okay?
	Totally free.
	You get to do it.
	It's paid for, even.
	You get to decide if you're going to do that or not.
	The man has no say in whether or not you can do that or not, but you have a say in the man paying for it if you decide to keep it.
	At the end of the day, if you didn't use a condom and you wanted to have a kid.
	Wait, wait, just sorry.
	Just to be clear.
	No, no, no.
	It's just like those are the consequences to having a protective sex.
	So the consequences for a man for not wearing a condom, right?
	Is that he has to pay for your child, but there's no consequences for you having sex without a condom.
	Having a child, that's a huge burden.
	Do you think that people should face the consequences of their actions in a society?
	Is that better?
	I've been saying yes to that.
	Yes, but also you can abort your child.
	I'm pro-choice.
	I think at the end of the day, like, take responsibility, responsibility for your choice.
	Where's the baby's choice?
	But I don't think you should be telling.
	Like, if you don't want to have the child, don't have the child.
	If you do want to have the child, who's not having a choice?
	Who's the one entity that's a human who doesn't have a choice in that scenario?
	If you believe so much in choice.
	I don't think if I don't think that's a child.
	It's too.
	When did your life start?
	I don't think the first trimester is a child.
	I know you think that, but when did your life begin?
	I'm sure during the first trimester, but no, no, when exactly?
	There's actually a moment where your unique DNA begins.
	There's a unique moment.
	Everybody at this table right now, there's no way we existed without this specific moment.
	What's an ectopic pregnancy?
	Shut up.
	You don't know, do you?
	Stop derailing.
	I'm talking to you.
	Don't save her.
	It's super relevant to abortion.
	Don't save her.
	What's an ectopic pregnancy?
	You can, though, just try to ask him that.
	Just because we can't linger too long.
	You'll notice a lot of men with a lot of opinions on this don't know many things about pregnancy.
	What?
	Ectopic?
	It's when it's planted and implanted in the wrong position.
	What do you do about that?
	I don't know.
	It depends on the scenario.
	Do you have to kill the baby or?
	I'm not sure.
	You have to.
	an ectopic pregnancy is always unviable.
	Okay, so do you consider that an abortion or what?
	I'm asking you because you said that you have to kill it.
	Well, this is a derailing.
	I'm asking the question is, when does the life begin?
	Well, I'm asking you, assuming when the life begins.
	You're changing.
	Well, dude, you're so bad.
	I'm assuming you would think that life begins when fertilization has happened.
	So my question would be with the ectopic pregnancy.
	You don't have spells.
	You have to do that.
	Which is cool.
	Wait, Kyla.
	So if Jim Bob were to grant that, like, in that instance, yes, abortion is warranted, would you be okay with all other abortions being banned?
	I'm not pro.
	I'm not you.
	Okay, so just really quick for the whole panel, related, sort of related to Jim Bob's question.
	Take a guy who has a one-night stand with a woman and she gets pregnant and she opts to keep the child.
	Should he be on the hook for child support?
	Yes.
	Yes?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	She's not even listening.
	She's just looking at her nails.
	No.
	No.
	That's a sticky question.
	No.
	If he didn't want it.
	I got distracted.
	What was the question?
	Okay.
	Well, here, I want to kind of change the framing a little bit.
	Are men who don't want to pay child support, are they deadbeats?
	Not necessarily.
	It really depends.
	Okay.
	I think men should have the same sexual reproductive rights that women do.
	So if you grant women the ability to abort a fetus, you should probably give men a financial abortion, essentially, right?
	Legal paternal surrender or paper.
	Yeah, like if, yeah, something like that.
	Do you think, though, how about this?
	Those of you who are pro-choice, if the woman's reason for wanting to get abortion is simply she's just not ready and she's not financially capable of having a child, justified for the abortion, yes or no?
	Yes.
	It depends on when.
	When's your cutoff?
	Prior to your cutoff.
	Legally, legally, I think Canada has the best model, which is like leaving it up to like, I don't think that this should be criminal.
	It should be doctor and woman.
	Age of viability is probably somewhere like 15.
	What about you?
	Not justified.
	You shouldn't have had sex.
	Okay.
	What about you?
	Justified.
	Justified.
	Okay.
	Can you say the question one more time?
	Yeah, so the woman gets pregnant.
	She just, she's not ready.
	Does want to have the kid.
	Not financially ready.
	Justified to get the abortion, yes or no?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So, but then you put a man in that situation.
	He isn't financially ready to have the kid.
	He's not ready.
	Whatever it is.
	Should he be on the hook for child support in the event that he does get a woman pregnant and she decides to keep it?
	Should he pay child support?
	No.
	No.
	Like she said, well, like surrendering is legal.
	Just to be clear, in all 50 states, regardless of the circumstances as a man, if you have a child, you're on the hook for, you can be on the hook for child support.
	Well, you are on the hook for child support, whether she seeks it or not.
	That's another conversation.
	I would still say he has to, yeah.
	He has to, okay.
	I'm going to say no after you put it that way.
	Okay.
	My answer was.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	What about you?
	Okay.
	Well, it's just interesting to me because you were saying, well, the consequences for the guy when Jim Bob was asking you about the child support situation.
	Well, you should have thought of that.
	Isn't this like, couldn't you?
	It's like a bronze age pro-life position.
	You should have just kept your legs closed.
	No, you should have just taken the precautions.
	Right.
	Like closing your legs is precautions.
	But couldn't you make that same argument towards women?
	Sorry.
	Say it.
	Couldn't you make that?
	Okay.
	You should have thought of the consequences before, as a woman, you got pregnant.
	It goes both ways.
	That's just one way.
	Right, but women can escape this by just getting an abortion.
	Right.
	Men have no escape route.
	Well, I just agree with you.
	I just agreed with you in your final question about if they can't afford it and they don't want the child, then no, they shouldn't be responsible for it.
	Okay, but earlier you were saying, well, they should have thought of that before.
	I still think they should have been taking the precautions.
	All right, I won't linger on that.
	And you shouldn't have taken the precautions?
	Both ways should have.
	And what's the ultimate precaution?
	Save sex or not having sex.
	Wait.
	That's why I stick to anal sex.
	What the fuck?
	That's crazy.
	That's not Ryan Reynolds.
	Apparently, apparently.
	Just, can you clarify, though?
	It was.
	Women are oppressed in the USA.
	Anything besides abortion?
	We're pressed at time.
	And we're good.
	Go ahead.
	GIVE US AN EXAMPLE.
	I FEEL I'm sure there's so many more.
	I'm tired.
	You got it.
	Come on.
	Just give me one.
	Give me one.
	How are women oppressed in the United States?
	Like through the government.
	It has to be not just social.
	No, not necessarily.
	But if you had one that did pertain to the government, here, I'll give you an example.
	In certain jurisdictions, women can't be topless.
	I don't know if that's necessarily.
	Well, okay, that relates more to rights than the.
	I wouldn't categorize that as oppression, but it conceivably is a right that men have that women don't.
	Okay, you actually brought it up.
	I don't even think women want to be walking around with their titties out.
	So I think with the whole like covering your shoulders and not wearing certain things during school hours, I think that's something that feels very degrading towards little girls.
	And that's like very much implemented in schools.
	If a girl is showing like shoulders, they get sent to the house.
	Okay, dress codes.
	Dress codes.
	Okay.
	I mean, technically, wouldn't I don't know actually how it works.
	Like if a guy was wearing booty shorts, wouldn't he also be in like getting trouble with the dress code if he was wearing like booty shorts with his ass cheeks out?
	Well, like in high school, when guys are told they can't wear certain shirts, certain color bandanas.
	I mean, is that oppression?
	I don't know if it's oppression.
	I think it's weird that people are already sexualizing a child and saying, hide your shoulders.
	It's like, what?
	It's a child.
	I mean, if like a 12-year-old wanted to show up to school wearing a G-string and you said no, would that be you?
	A G-string versus a tank top?
	I think that's a bit.
	Well, I'm using an extreme to kind of paint the picture here.
	Of course, a G-string, like that's just, that's being naked almost.
	So I don't think that's the same as wearing a tank top.
	Our tank top?
	Wait, shoulder?
	G-string?
	G-string versus a tank top.
	But I don't even think tank tops are women are banned from wearing tank tops.
	Yes Yes, they get sent home.
	Short.
	She wouldn't be able to wear this to middle school, high school, or anywhere.
	Really?
	It's been a minute.
	It's been a minute since the tag.
	Okay, yeah, I heard about the spaghetti straps thing.
	Okay, I mean, is there anything actually important?
	I mean, I think that's very important.
	Oh, they can't wear that sexualizing children, which is weird.
	I mean, the dress code is sexualizing.
	Why do they need to cover up their shoulders?
	It's just like, what if it's really hot outside?
	What about school uniforms in like a classical school?
	Yeah, sure.
	That's oppressive?
	No, that's not.
	What if the girl says, you know what?
	These uniforms, I think, what do you mean?
	How is it not?
	Well, answer a question.
	What's wrong with her shoulders being out?
	What?
	Her question.
	You guys didn't answer her.
	I'm just saying there's codes.
	So it's like, you could argue from a distraction point of view.
	It doesn't have to be sexual.
	What do you mean distracting?
	What's distracting about shoulders?
	Skin is generally distracting.
	Showing skin is generally distraction.
	It's something else to look at for people.
	So even for a child?
	Yeah, I would say that's true for a child, even if they don't understand it.
	Skin is distracting?
	Yeah.
	So like you said, more arm skin is distracting.
	Yeah, I would say the more, especially women's shoulders, depending on the culture, shoulders and neck reveal is a signal.
	Like guys can't typically go shirtless, right?
	Guys have to abide by the dress code.
	I can't go into my middle school class with my shirt off, right?
	It's not oppression.
	It's just having standards and codes.
	It's just subject.
	Oh, well, I'm not arguing for the oppression thing.
	I just wanted you guys to engage with what's the issue with shoulders because it seems like you guys agree with that standard.
	So I'm trying to understand like why do you have an issue with your shoulders?
	And the example is because middle schools have dress codes that don't show skin.
	That's not oppression.
	That is so much more than that.
	Sure, I just wanted to understand your guys' aversion to shoulders because it seemed like you guys agree with that.
	Honestly, I don't even care if a girl's wearing a tank top to either.
	You're like, do away with those rules.
	don't think i'd really care but uh i mean some of these are some of these rules are probably like extremely outdated too yeah it's like that they're the reason i don't know It's like outdated for what?
	Like, what are they, what do you think the past was trying to regulate about the woman?
	Well, I think the past had much stricter general rules when it came to dress.
	Yeah, modesty.
	It's about modesty.
	It's about sexuality.
	Well, yeah, it's about just, it's more than that.
	It's just, it's modesty is not just sexuality.
	It's not just sexuality.
	But you're not sure.
	Most humble heart.
	Modesty is even how, like, look, if you were fully dressed in a full thing, you would still not be a modest person.
	Sure, yeah.
	You're talking about like humble heart, but when we're talking about dress code, I'm not like worried about their humble heart.
	You're worried about their shoulders.
	Look, it's not just shoulders.
	Look, look at the difference.
	Like, someone, you say, okay, we'll allow a tank top, right?
	And then they go, okay, what if I cut the loops off of the shoulders and now it's just like a tube top?
	Yeah, there's, well, this isn't the argument that I'm making.
	I'm trying to understand.
	I see you don't want to answer that question.
	Well, it's irrelevant to what we're talking about.
	The point is, when you set a standard, even if you find it arbitrary about a tank top, what it's saying is that you're not going to be able to do it.
	I'm just trying to understand your reason to be averse to the tank top.
	That's all I'm trying to understand.
	What's immodest about shoulders?
	Showing more of your skin for a woman is generally away from modesty.
	So should what's your ideal dress code?
	For schools?
	My kids go to school where they are fully covered.
	All the kids are fully covered.
	To hear?
	I think it's kind of trashy, like for both men and women to be, or boys and girls to be showing up in tank tops.
	I think there's probably some leftover from when people, and this applies societally, when people dressed a bit more generally, dressed up more formally.
	But for example, even when I was in elementary school, sagging was the big thing.
	And this specifically tends to be like a boy thing, the sagging of the pants.
	Is this like sexualizing male boys because you don't want them to sag their pants?
	Or is this just like kind of like, don't show your underwear?
	Like, is this sort of like just a formality of like present yourself in such a way that's becoming often?
	I'm just trying to understand if you guys think that shoulder sharing is sexual or I don't think it's me personally, I don't know if it's a mess.
	No, no, no.
	It's more, it's a bigger argument about just standards, etiquette, presentation, formality.
	Like, for instance, who works from home?
	You work from, you never notice like, like even if you're working from home, have you ever tried to like dress up even though you're not leaving?
	Like, get yourself impeccable?
	Even though you're home.
	Like, you could actually just be in your sweatpants, right?
	But you actually get impeccable to work.
	Have you ever done that?
	I try to, I try to mostly look good for my husband to some degree.
	Oh, no, not like that.
	I don't get ready.
	So you're asking, yeah, do I like try to dress up specifically for work to like put myself in the mentality for work?
	I'm assuming is what you're meaning to do.
	I think that's a decent environmental stimulus.
	That's particularly like what I do.
	But with children, right?
	I guess what we're trying to get to is you guys were like, yeah, tank tops are bad.
	And I was just trying to understand why you're concerned about tank tops because she was using the line, it's sexualizing children.
	You guys were saying, well, no, it's not.
	It's about something else.
	Yeah, it sounds like it is about sexualizing children.
	It's not about sexualizing children.
	We just gave you a bunch of different ways of viewing that, but it has nothing to do with, by the way, what the topic is, which is whether or not that's oppressive to have standards of dress code in any place.
	I'm fine.
	Also, really quick on that, Rachel Wilson says spaghetti straps aren't about showing shoulders.
	It was about bra showing.
	They don't want young girls having their bras hang out in school.
	This is similar to the sagging thing, right?
	I think it's similar to the sagging.
	They don't want the underwear showing.
	That would include the bra.
	They don't want boys like sagging their pants.
	It just looks stupid.
	What is so wrong about a bra?
	I'm confused.
	It's considered underwear.
	It's underwear.
	But sometimes it will come off.
	It will fall.
	And do you fix it?
	Isn't this bad, though?
	What?
	You guys, we all agreed that this would not be allowed in middle school.
	There's no bra showing.
	Yeah, we don't know.
	My personal taste is not that.
	But there's no bra showing.
	I'm fine with it.
	But there's no, yeah, there's no bra showing.
	Well, because the entire top half is exposed.
	So, I mean, it's still like this level of, it's not necessarily the most modest thing.
	How is a dress code oppression?
	That's what I understand.
	This is so.
	Socially, I feel like that's bringing down, it's sexualizing women.
	How is modesty sexualizing them?
	It's the opposite.
	It's the opposite.
	Well, explain yourself.
	To have a modest dress code is the opposite of sexualizing them.
	Oh, um, I just think at the end of the day, like women should be able to dress a certain way without...
	They're not women.
	These are children.
	Well, I'm talking about in general.
	This is going to go outside.
	So if the children want to.
	It's in the workforce.
	It's not just in schools.
	This is like multiple situations.
	You should be able to wear whatever you want at any job you're at.
	You should be able to wear whatever you want at any job you're at?
	No, I think it should just be, you should be able to not feel uncomfortable to show shoulders.
	Like, I think that's just ridiculous.
	I think the way you dress doesn't identify what you're looking for, who you are.
	I think it's a form of self-expression.
	I think it does.
	It's a form of self-expression to me.
	I'm an artist, and that's a lot of the ways that we express ourselves is through.
	Wait, weren't you, didn't you have this big gripe and grievance about how the music industry sexualizes women?
	But here you are.
	Did you forget that I said that if I wanted to post myself revealing its free will, I wanted to do that?
	Wait, so it's simultaneously, this is Schrödinger's feminism.
	You're simultaneously oppressed, but also this is like a liberation.
	Liberation is creative expression.
	For me, the biggest point I was trying to make about the middle school or elementary school or high school was because they're children.
	They're minors.
	It just doesn't, to me, it feels uncomfortable.
	That's why I brought it up as like it's a form of okay.
	Men shouldn't sag their pants or excuse me, boys shouldn't sag their pants.
	I mean, there's dress codes that go both ways.
	I do have to move it on.
	To Charlie, you say women do not have equal rights to men in the United States.
	What rights do men have that women don't?
	Honestly, I'm tired.
	I'm just going to pass.
	Suck it up.
	Suck it up.
	Come on.
	Military here.
	Bro, this is hold on.
	This is why women should not be in the military then.
	Because tired.
	Just suck it up.
	Suck it up, man.
	You haven't served a day in your life.
	You're right.
	Be quiet.
	You're absolutely right.
	But like, come on, bro.
	You're going to be like deployed.
	We've been talking for seven hours and I just can't.
	Yeah, this podcast is analogous to military service.
	It actually, no, his point is that you should definitely not.
	You can't handle this.
	How are you going to be handled?
	She's here as like a volunteer for your show.
	It's fair enough for her to opt out of military service.
	You should wear a cape to this.
	This is actually the final thing, by the way.
	This is like the final thing I'm listening to.
	I'm very spooky.
	What's the question again?
	What's the final thing from the questionnaire?
	Then I'm just pretty much done with it.
	We're going to do the chats, then we're going to wrap up.
	What's the question?
	You agreed with the following statement: Women do not have equal rights to men in the USA.
	What rights do men have that women don't?
	I mean, we've already talked about it time and time again.
	The first thing that came to mind when I circled it was abortion.
	But how would this be?
	How would this relate to equal rights?
	Because men don't have any reproductive rights.
	So how would this be like a differential or inequality in terms of a comparison between men and women?
	I misunderstood the question.
	Okay, so is it just abortion?
	There's nothing else.
	I'm sure there's more.
	Well, okay, what are the because we already talked about abortion?
	What are the other things that when it comes to rights that men have that women don't?
	And just move on.
	I just.
	You didn't get drafted, did you, by chance?
	No.
	Well, I think the draft isn't like that.
	Isn't like what?
	An instance that's geared toward men and not women.
	Yes.
	It's not like that.
	It's not.
	Really?
	No, I mean, I'm saying that I'm not in the draft.
	I know.
	Because you're a woman.
	Because I enlisted.
	I know.
	I know.
	But you can't teenage.
	But you can't be drafted, right?
	No.
	But men can, right?
	I can't be drafted because I'm already in the military.
	Do you know what a hypothetical is?
	Hypothetical question.
	Oh.
	Hypothetical question.
	If you didn't enlist, you couldn't be drafted, right?
	Correct.
	Don't rescue me, boy.
	So he can do this.
	Are you a privileged as a woman to not having been entered into the draft?
	I'm honestly against a draft.
	It's fine, but how it is right now, would you say it's a privilege toward women to not be drafted?
	I think it should be both or none.
	Truth, that's just my opinion.
	If there is a draft, I think it should apply to the pressure.
	But wait, I need you to answer my question.
	I need you to answer my question.
	What rights do men have that women don't besides the abortion conversation?
	I'm so tired.
	I don't want to answer.
	I just there isn't, but I'm willing to hear you out.
	Do you need a shot?
	Do you want an energy drink?
	Because this is literally the final thing I want to talk about, and I'll get this wrapped up.
	Tommy, can you just take it for me, please?
	No, you got to ask me.
	The question he's asking.
	I don't want to do it.
	I'm tired.
	If she has a position on it, I'll hear it, but I just want to hear your position first.
	I don't know.
	I'm fucking tired.
	Like, I'm telling you.
	Just Brian, no means no.
	One more pump.
	No is a complete sentence.
	No, period.
	Not no.
	She has no rights like a me too.
	It just doesn't exist then.
	There's no rights that you can point to.
	She's trying to like me to me, like a conversational.
	She's accusing me of a conversational crepe.
	That's not true.
	I'm just saying, Brian, I'm not feeling it right now in this moment.
	I mean, that's a real, like, easy, cowardice way to just be, like, you here.
	Do men get hangry?
	If you're willing to make the concession that you, there actually, there are no rights that men have that women don't, I'll happily move it on.
	But you have to make that concession.
	Otherwise, I'd like the time we've spent having the meta-conversation over, I don't want to talk about this.
	You could have just thrown out like one or two things when it comes to rights.
	I mean, I just don't want to.
	You don't?
	What do you mean you don't?
	I'm confused.
	I can't think of words.
	As of right now, I'm tired and I don't want to.
	So if I give you like two minutes to recharge and like come back to you in two minutes and give you time to think about it, can we come back to it in two minutes?
	We can just move on.
	Or I'm giving you time to think about it so you have a moment to gather.
	You just want to move on.
	Then just concede that there is no right that men have that women don't.
	Sure, if that makes you feel better.
	Yeah, is it your position now, though?
	If that makes you feel better, it's not whether it makes me feel better or not.
	I just said if it makes you feel happy, then yes.
	It neither makes me feel unhappy or happy.
	Just do you want to provide one example?
	No.
	Just to be clear.
	So if your goal is like, let's get out of here sooner, I think it'd be easier for you to just answer the question.
	Oh my Lord.
	Give me one.
	Why are you doing that?
	Give me just one.
	That's it.
	Just one.
	The feminism is just, it's not working.
	No, I like it.
	When did I ever call myself a feminist once in this entire thing?
	When did I say the word feminist?
	Are you against the patriarchy?
	Bro, I barely know what the fuck that means.
	Like, come on, man.
	Oh, my God, bro.
	Just move on.
	Are you against like males predominating in leadership?
	Like, what do you mean, I guess?
	Like, in government?
	Yes.
	Are you against males predominating in leadership positions in government?
	If you get elected, you get elected.
	Like, if you get elected.
	Sorry.
	If you get elected, you get elected.
	Oh, my God.
	Elected.
	If you get elected, you get elected.
	Who cares?
	Give me one, please.
	Give me one.
	One right that men have.
	One so that you can pwn me.
	Like, so you can pwn me.
	Like, do you just want that clickbait?
	Like, you can pwn me.
	I don't care.
	Tell you what.
	I'll even, I'll even do this.
	I won't even debate you on it.
	I won't even debate you.
	I won't even try to pwn you.
	I just want to hear it, and then I promise I'll move on.
	What is a right that men have that women don't?
	I will not even argue with it, even if I disagree.
	I mean, I don't even know off the top of my head.
	Brian?
	So there's not one.
	Checkmate.
	All right.
	I don't know what to say.
	Like, I don't.
	Okay.
	Oh, okay.
	Final thing from the questionnaire here.
	Kyle, I want to have a 30-second debate with you.
	You disagree.
	Your disagreement with the show is.
	Meat.
	What?
	Oh, I thought you were going to bring up the meat.
	Yeah, it's that.
	Okay.
	But what's your disagreement there, Big Labyman?
	I must have just thought it would be a funny, whimsical moment between us.
	You're in your notes.
	Do I need to pull it up?
	What did you write?
	I think I half wrote it and then I got distracted by the Uber thing.
	Okay, meaty vaginas are gross is what you wrote.
	That is deeply offensive to me.
	I know.
	I'm very deeply offended.
	I know.
	I want you to look into one of these cameras and apologize to all the women with Audis, which is something like 50% of women.
	I want you to apologize for your disgusting and sexist and misogynistic remarks.
	It's been seven and a half hours, and Brian has beaten you down to believe that meaty lives matter too.
	All right, hashtag big laby matter.
	All right, I'll laby a cam matter until big laby matter.
	All right, thank you.
	All right, guys, final call.
	$30 TTS.
	We're gonna let these come through, then we're gonna get this wrapped up.
	Uh, did you wanna speak on anything?
	I know you had a lot of notes, but I don't know if we'll get to be able to do everything.
	Okay, um, well, one thing I thought would be interesting, or one of the problems I had was that I think corn is one of the most like detrimental aspects of our society.
	And I felt like that's kind of an interesting.
	Yeah, corn bad.
	I think we can agree on that.
	Okay, I'll let the chat.
	Thank you, double agent.
	This goes out to chair number two, the notorious GED.
	If you could be a man for 24 hours, what would you do differently than you can now?
	How much time have you spent reading poetics?
	Oh, this is for you.
	Me, okay.
	What would I do if I was a man for 24 hours?
	Ah, probably like windmill?
	I'd probably drown a windmill for the helicopter.
	Wait, couldn't you do an orthodox stuffy doofy?
	Brian, buy a projector and use Jim Bob's massive forehead to project your loosing solitaire games onto troller.
	Thank you, Felix.
	Appreciate it.
	Seth Marshall donated $30.
	Brian, thanks for being a troop last week.
	My do.
	I'm still sick.
	Thank you, Seth.
	I look forward to this show every week, as do most of us in the chat.
	Big tubs, bro.
	Thank you, man.
	WJ Bob WJ.
	Uh, here, let's see.
	Shniko Zero Four donated thirty dollars.
	Yeah, thank you, man.
	Brian, can we get a commitment from you for Kyla's future debates?
	Can we please get a shot clockwork her paddle?
	Also, if chair one is traditional, why have you not pulled up her first three insta photos?
	Are you traditional?
	I don't know if did you see?
	I never claimed to be traditional, but I do like scantily clad types of photos, but nothing that's exposing anything.
	Sure, do you think he was talking about you?
	Otis Driftwood donated 30.
	Good show.
	WJBWJ pumps.
	Sorry for the delay, guys.
	30 dollars a year.
	You work twice as hard at a quarter of a job.
	No crying.
	What the fuck?
	Yo, Otis, thank you for that, man.
	Appreciate it.
	We have Z-Man here.
	Zman 32 donated $30.
	Good work, Jim, Bob, and Jay.
	You both need some ginger chews for this one.
	Any pumps after two seconds would be a travel.
	And if it's within two seconds, it's a pump fake.
	God bless.
	Christos Voskris.
	Yozy, man.
	Thank you, man.
	Doctrine underscore matters donated $30.
	JB slash Jay.
	A Wilson asks often what is the duty of women?
	There seems to be a gag reflex to this question from women and men in the church.
	Panel, do you have any duty as a woman to society/slash home/slash church?
	Any duties?
	Or we are we actually talked about this.
	Thank you, man.
	Reap what you so donated: thirty dollars.
	Thank you, Reap.
	Chair five, of course, they take men more seriously when they speak.
	Men are more logical and direct than women.
	They aren't going to spout off with a bunch of BS like you have been all night.
	Real photo.
	Doctrine underscore matters donated thirty dollars.
	Jay, would you mind answering my last TTS regarding a good primer or overall systematic on E.O.?
	I will read and remember the tile of it.
	I appreciate the EO's catechesis for new members as an anchor.
	I would say just read Pomazonski's Orthodox Dogmatics.
	Alright, thank you, Doctrine.
	Oh.
	No, sir.
	Oh, this is below the threshold.
	Boom again.
	Thank you.
	Boobs on the dummy for science.
	Thank you for that.
	We got one shot here.
	One shot to 17 donated $30.
	Suck J and JB.
	Glad to see you both together on a panel.
	I'm wondering what it is like to debate a literal nonsense Muppet two days later.
	My brain cells are victims of a fallacy-induced genocide.
	Crazy.
	Thank you, Jason.
	Chair 5.
	Couldn't an argument be made that men in general will not go to the doctor for every action pain?
	Studies show female to male for hypochondria is 10 to 1.
	Is it really?
	Is hypochondria 10 to 1?
	Well, there's your answer.
	There it is.
	Wow, that would explain it.
	Based off one YouTube comment.
	Oh, Jason, present differently between sexes.
	I don't even like the chick, but she's right, and doesn't need a source for common knowledge.
	Chill out, young blood.
	All right, OJ, appreciate it.
	Thank you.
	I just watched a documentary on you.
	That was cool.
	Thank you, man.
	Based Thor donated $30.
	Women out here making face lips bigger and coochie lips smaller.
	What a time to be alive.
	Big labia matters.
	Somebody call the Wambulance for chair two.
	It's impressive how much she prattles.
	Prattle per minute.
	Prattle PPN.
	Rachel Wilson donated $30.
	Highland people wouldn't find you so annoying.
	If you didn't try to act like a subject matter expert every time you open your mouth, have some humility.
	There's nothing more I can say than all the times I've seen.
	Eradult hasn't read anything but Wikipedia and Destiny streams.
	She's out of her.
	Exactly.
	She's no Christian said it.
	It's an accurate assessment.
	Thank God W Eastern and Greek Orthodox.
	Jason Castle donated $30.
	Wow, Chair 6, you are a disgusting.
	Wow.
	It's too bad we can't deport you.
	Damn, that's crazy.
	USA does not need more child murders.
	Love you.
	China Man donated $29.99.
	Ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion.
	Even if this is granted, this would be an exception to the generality of abortions.
	Completely bad faith.
	Wait, did I?
	They're always making the rule from the exception, aren't they?
	Every time.
	Jason Castle donated $30.
	Hey, Chair 6.
	The argument can be reversed, and someone could ask, why do you want to sexualize your 12 by allowing her to dress in a tank top?
	Young boys, especially at that age, sexualize everything.
	Thank you, Jason.
	Jacob Joseph donated $30.
	Thank you, Jacob.
	Chair 5, the Department of Education operates no schools and educates no children.
	The fact that you thought it did is the very reason why it must be abolished.
	Oh, Below the Threshold, Desert Joe hung up about the tank tops.
	Spending 30 minutes arguing.
	Thank you, man.
	Justin Martin's donated $30.
	Chair 6: If you're showing more skin, even if it's for yourself, you're creating an expectation in your industry for other women as well due to natural competition.
	I would disagree with that.
	She disagrees.
	Argument defeated.
	I disagree.
	Do we have time for me to answer your question?
	Orthodox saint, would you recommend to Brestiny to actually read and contrast her radical orthodoxy modern intellectual theology?
	Since the word orthodoxy needs to be defined in her view.
	I don't think she's going to read any book that you recommend.
	No, I don't think she reads books.
	Thank you, Lulu.
	What did you come on this podcast for?
	You are so lame.
	Whatever.
	Giovanni Jade, you donated JB brought up abortion but didn't know how to respond to Reddit buttons.
	We all just saw his brain malfunction in real time when a topic was brought up.
	No.
	He's never claimed Sicily again.
	No, I was confused that you would bring that up, given that is an exception to the general rule we were arguing.
	Wasn't using it as an evidence for anything.
	It's very interesting, you're guys.
	Why'd you bring it up then?
	Why'd you bring it up?
	I was curious if you knew what it was and how do you know what 99 times 99 is?
	9,801.
	So you derail by your own admission.
	Why aren't we talking about numbers?
	She just said she brings up irrelevant points.
	Men react when people are saying that it's not.
	Every woman on the point of view.
	You just admitted to bad faith.
	No, I genuinely asked if you knew what a nectopic pregnancy was and how you would handle it.
	To what?
	You changed the subject.
	Why?
	Why?
	We're in the middle of a discussion, right?
	And I was in the middle of making a point, and you just admitted to derailing on purpose, right?
	Because I was curious about that.
	This is why you're not good at debating.
	Yeah, you're ignoring it.
	This is why you're not good at.
	You're sick.
	You're never going to be a successful debater.
	Jay, it's really important.
	I'm telling you why and how.
	How does your husband tolerate you?
	If you guys are such good debate lords, it won't last long.
	If you guys notice the difference of reaction to these men when they're talking to women that they feel like they can actually manage in a debate, versus blah, you have to do this literally.
	Just admitted that you changed the subject.
	Someone that talked with every other woman.
	Because they don't act like they just engage in normal yeah, because they don't act like no, it's because you're the common denominator debating people who are not trained and you feel unconfident.
	When you're debating me so reasonably with every single one of these, you're the only loudmouth babbler.
	Because you're so shut your mouth.
	You're a babbler only in your life on this panel, very initially, we give you back your energy.
	Brian said that there was an exceptional, so see again.
	When these men are such a nonsense machine of female oppression, that's female oppression and women not having rights, especially if you're not.
	Like I said yesterday, she is the best example of why feminism is a disaster.
	So keep debating and arguing as why older men have to bully women to try to get their way.
	Because you're increasingly less salient, your behavior this entire time has been nothing but childish.
	The reality is that when you engage with people that you feel like you can dunk on by just granting their norms.
	You'll just talk to them and go.
	You act like an expert.
	However, when you engage with somebody, as admittedly like that, you can't tell the base that you can't debate against.
	You're not an expert in all of these fields, and when you talk to an actual expert, they make you like granting me norms that you and I both agree on as a tax.
	I don't debate that way.
	I don't debate that.
	You're definitionally being bad faith with me in all of this.
	By not granting you the debate, yes.
	Wait, if you agree on a norm that you both adhere to, such as don't grant me my position, that's bad faith.
	Nope, if you agree on a norm with me and you won't grant it to me for this purpose of a debate, you're being bad faith.
	These 304s arguing against showing shoulders and bras, but yet want to play victims while showing off shoulders and wear no bras.
	Make it make sense.
	It's just double standard.
	Thank you.
	I can't see your name.
	Jesse Castle donated $30.
	Chef 5, don't use the you didn't serve BS on Brian.
	You're a pog and anyone to do a bog.
	What's a dog?
	A pogue is basically like in military sense.
	It's like when they're like, oh, you're just like HR.
	You're not a real soldier.
	But it's like a lot of people will say that to even jobs like mine where I like, I've fired cannons and it's like, okay, like, like, they basically say that to anybody that's not infantry.
	It's like, whatever.
	Sure.
	Desert Joe donated $30.
	Wow.
	You are so hung up about tank tops for 12-year-olds.
	Spending 30 minutes arguing school dress codes.
	This convo proves women are not oppressed in the US.
	Stop victimizing yourselves.
	Bloody boy donated $30.
	NSC.
	I've never heard anyone who talks as much as you, but really says nothing.
	Your words hold no weight.
	We know you're not bulking, you're just a hippo.
	WJ.
	What the fuck?
	WJB.
	That's crazy.
	Thank you, bloody boy.
	Are you saying you're low-hanging fruit?
	I'm saying making fat jokes about me since I'm low-hanging.
	I'm saying fat jokes are obviously low-hanging.
	Any prego could cause fatality.
	Constitutional right.
	Second Amendment bared arms right against you.
	Thank you, Jesse.
	Brian, I'm getting a group session together and seeing if you want to join.
	So you need to press score of at least seven, have a decent PPM, and send your achievements for the mythical aid.
	Demon Slayer, I cannot pull up your message, but I can't pull up your message, bro.
	But it has.
	I can't.
	I shouldn't even say.
	Okay, sorry.
	Demon Slayer, I can't pull it up.
	I'm sorry.
	YouTube TOS.
	Jason Castle donated $30.
	Chair 5 bog, personnel other than drunk.
	Which person?
	The job of a pog is to support the infantry, the war fighters, which are shit.
	You're right.
	Artillery is so not important for war.
	Jason, boob artillery.
	I don't know.
	Good talk.
	We have Lulu.
	Lulu donated $30.
	Thank you, Lulu.
	We all watched Chair to derail the conversation with a random question when nobody was talking to her.
	Now she's just refusing to admit she did it long.
	Why are your glasses on?
	Jay, I've got a question for you.
	What's your favorite movie?
	Favorite film?
	The Godfather.
	Godfather.
	Yeah.
	Trilogy.
	Got it.
	What's your top three?
	Movies?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Godfather, Lord of the Rings, and probably the original Star Wars.
	Original Star Wars only.
	Got it.
	Oh, we got chat here from Z-Man.
	Guys, last call.
	We're going to get this wrapped.
	Last call if you want to get one in.
	Final call on chats.
	Like you know the least bit about fruit.
	Fruit.
	Good one.
	I've never seen an apple in my life.
	He spent $30 to say that.
	Wait, related to fruits.
	Has anybody here not had like kind of basic fruits?
	Like, has anybody here never had a strawberry or a pineapple peach mango?
	I've encountered in the recent years, I've encountered some women that haven't had certain fruits.
	And I get this warm feeling inside, and I'm like, I want to introduce you.
	I want to be your gateway to some fucking bomb mango.
	Like, that just makes me happy if a girl's never had.
	It's not that I'm happy that she hasn't had it, but it makes me happy that I can hook her up.
	I'll put her on some game.
	Oh, you've never had strawberries before?
	Check this shit out.
	It's like, makes me feel happy to like.
	That's very wholesome.
	It is kind of just a little wholesome thing here at the end of the show.
	I have encountered recently, though, some women who's like, I'm like, you've never had a strawberry, son?
	What?
	You've never had a peach?
	Really?
	Do you know what you've been missing out on?
	And I'm like, I can assist you on this.
	Jimbo.
	Wait, wait, how many people have you met that haven't had a basic fruit?
	I've met two girls who have not had like certain, no mangoes, hasn't had like the stone fruits.
	So like apricot, peach, nectarine.
	Hasn't had any of those.
	Never had a watermelon.
	Huh?
	I looked there.
	I was like, never had a watermelon.
	Wow.
	That's crazy.
	So I hooked that shit up.
	Whoa, voice card.
	I hooked it up.
	I fucking hooked it up.
	I was like, I bombarded them with.
	They put you in the friend zone after that.
	No, I bombarded them with fruit.
	Wow.
	It was crazy, son.
	I'm like, you're only eating fruits.
	And here's a fucking smoothie.
	How about them apples?
	And they're like, I've never tried an apple before.
	I think they've all had apples.
	Oh, that's like the apples are normal basic.
	That's some basic shit.
	Jason Castle donated $30.
	Not so bright.
	Why do you feel the need to comment on everything, even when no one is talking to you?
	Do the world a favor and STF you sometimes.
	You might like it.
	I know we all will.
	All right.
	There it is, folks.
	Any final thoughts from any of the panelists before we wrap?
	Final thought.
	Hold, speak now forever.
	Hold your peace.
	Amir, can you crack the door?
	It's getting a little stuffy in here.
	Crack the door.
	Okay, I'd like to end the show by seeing if we can't use this moment as an opportunity to give you, Sophia, a call to action.
	Would you consider stopping sex work entirely tonight, right now, on the whatever podcast?
	For what?
	Your soul.
	No.
	Okay, I tried.
	So, all right.
	GG, GG, well played.
	Hold on.
	Well played.
	Well played.
	Last call.
	Hit the like button, please, on your way out.
	Quick little shout out here.
	Can you pull up the Twitch really quick, guys?
	If you enjoyed the stream, really quick, just open up a Twitch, twitch.tv slash whatever.
	Drop us a follow in the Prime sub if you have one.
	There it is.
	Guys, drop us a Prime sub if you have.
	Check if you have a Prime sub available, Amazon Prime.
	Link it to your Twitch.
	Stroking out here.
	Drop us a follow in the Prime sub.
	Also join our Discord, Discord.gg slash whatever.
	Buy some merch.
	Shop.whatever.com if you enjoyed the stream.
	Also kindly like the video.
	Oh, Venmo, Cash App, Whatever Pod.
	Let me do a couple shout outs.
	David, thank for the 22.
	Chad, thank for the 10.
	Laura, thank for the three.
	Laura, thank for the 25.
	Ashley, thank for the 10 on Cash App and Venmo.
	Appreciate that, guys.
	Like the video, please, on your way out here.
	And let me just double check.
	I do want to thank you guys for tuning in tonight.
	You could have been anywhere in the world, but you're here with me.
	I appreciate that.
	Thank you to everyone who so generously supports the show by super chatting, donates, etc.
	We will be live again.
	Got Andrew Wilson in town, so we're going to be doing some debates.
	I believe that starts Thursday.
	We got them lined up, so I believe Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
	Sunday is the next dating talk, 5 p.m. Pacific.
	Any girls who want to be on the show, DM out whatever on Instagram if you can make it to Santa Barbara.
	07's in the chat.
	07's in the chat.
	And I'm trying to think if there's anything we're forgetting.
	No, I think that's pretty much it.
	Let me just make sure no chats came through.
	I don't want to screw anybody over.
	Like the video, please.
	Yep, that's it.
	All right, guys.
	07's in the chat.
	Good night, guys.
	And we will see you guys next time.

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