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July 9, 2025 - Viva & Barnes

01:38:40

Rusia-Gate Resurfaces! Epstein Debacled Continues! Live with Rev. Rim Christopher & Benny Johnson

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Time	Text
	Oh crap.
	I think we are live and we are looking at J.P. Sears.
	If you don't know who he is, he's comedic, analytic, political insight genius.
	I shall play a moment of this.
	Oh, there's no Epstein list?
	I guess a whole case is solved now.
	Good evening and welcome to We Lied to You News, our top story.
	The DOJ and FBI have officially concluded there is no Epstein list.
	Along with the fact that he definitely killed himself and didn't have blackmail on any prominent figures.
	Now for the details.
	After years of struggle and speculation, now you, the public, can finally have a sense of closure on the Epstein case.
	And we'd like to thank the DOJ and FBI for finally getting to the bottom of it and solving the case.
	Job well done.
	We'll all sleep better at night knowing that justice is being served by way of no justice being needed.
	But what are the details?
	And believe it or not, there's actually a little controversy surrounding these official conclusions.
	We can start on this line of the FBI's official conclusion.
	This systemic review revealed no incriminating client list.
	Now, some people in the public who I'll put that on pause, I think JP needed to include the quote client list around the client list as it appeared in the memo because I believe it was in quotations.
	We'll get into this in a bit.
	If you don't know who JP Sears is, he's awesome.
	He's hilarious.
	And I would love to do a podcast with him.
	So if you know him, tag us and let's see what we can make happen, people.
	Good afternoon.
	And bienvenue aux interwebs.
	You may have noticed there were three typos in my title this morning.
	That is the, not the grand slam, but that's the trifecta of typos I was typing in the dark as I was running out the house.
	They're corrected now, people.
	We have, it is not Rim Christopher.
	It is Reverend Tim Christopher who's on today's show, Benny Johnson.
	We're going to get back to the Epstein stuff, and I'm sure Reverend Christopher and I are going to talk about it, but this is going to be sort of not a diversion or distraction from the Epstein stuff because we're getting to that today, because I'm not letting up and being told that it's raining while someone is not only spitting in my face, but slapping me at the same time.
	Oh, no, no, no.
	That is rain and a hurricane, Viva.
	That's definitely not someone spitting at you and slapping you and saying it's the weather.
	We're going to get to all of that.
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	And now on for the show, people.
	For a long time, people have been saying, Viva, you've got to have Reverend Tim Christopher on.
	And we almost, we made it happen, I think, almost in 2024.
	And then with all of the news that was breaking, I'm, you know, not doom scrolling.
	It's work.
	It's not doom scrolling when you're doing it for your profession.
	I came across a tweet from Tim.
	I was like, oh, crap, we never made that happen.
	And we are already now more than halfway through the new year.
	DM'd him yesterday and it's coming on today.
	If you don't know who Reverend Tim Christopher is, you're going to know after this.
	I've been going back and boning up on biography of Reverend Christopher.
	We're going to get into it and we're going to talk about what's going on in the world.
	Reverend Christopher, when you are ready to come in, feel free to join and we are going to get this on.
	We are live on Rumble, viva barnslaw.locals.com and Twitter.
	Benny Johnson is coming on at give or take four o'clock and we're going to get into what we couldn't get into when my phone overheated in the vehicle and I couldn't finish my interview with Benny.
	Reverend Christopher, how goes the battle, sir?
	Yes, sir.
	How you doing?
	How you doing?
	Very good.
	I was listening to some of your stuff from years back.
	I like to go back all the way to the beginning and see how one has evolved over the years.
	For those who may not know who you are, but I think a lot of my audience overlaps with yours because for a long time they've been saying, get Reverend Christopher on.
	Tell people who you are before I delve a little bit into your childhood.
	Yeah, sure.
	I'm currently in, you know, reside in Minnesota.
	A lot of my work that I do is through my church, Barin Missionary Baptist Church in North Minneapolis, pretty much the heart of the problem of the Minnesota.
	Just been out here since 1997, basically running the streets and trying to make a difference.
	When some people use the term reverend, not literally or sometimes loosely, you're an actual reverend.
	Is it an ordained reverend or is that how it's?
	I am an ordained minister.
	Yes, I am.
	Very cool.
	I mean, so, get back all the way to the beginning.
	I know that you are what they refer to as an army brat, but it seems like an unnecessary brat.
	I don't know why they have to be brats in order to be children, but you're a Marine Corps child.
	Yeah, if you could tell us where you were born, raised.
	I know what your parents did, but let everybody know just so they can understand who you are.
	So I was born in Millington, Tennessee, Memphis, Tennessee, is basically where I was born.
	Somewhat raised.
	I am the oldest of four children of my mother and my biological father.
	My mother remarried a man that basically looked like you, a white man.
	And down in the deep south, true story, deep south, right?
	10 years removed from Loving versus Virginia, where they were saying that, you know, white man can't marry a black woman.
	It was just 10 years out in deep south.
	Yeah, my mom and dad got married.
	My dad was in the military.
	We ended up moving to Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, where I pretty much grew up between Memphis and Camp Lejeune, North Carolina.
	Came through, moved around, you know, military bases and things of that sort.
	Ended up moving out to California where I met my wife.
	My wife is from here, Minnesota.
	That's how I ended up here in Minnesota.
	May I ask the totally intrusive question?
	What happened to your biological father?
	Like, how'd that marriage end?
	He was no good.
	I'll put it plain and simple.
	My biological father had an alcohol problem.
	It was back in the days when there's no place for anyone to go get help with alcoholism.
	He ended up going to the doctors.
	They told him point blank, you can't have another drink.
	And he just could not stop drinking.
	So my biological father actually drank himself to death.
	How old was he when he died?
	He was 38.
	Jeez, Louise, that is drinking yourself to death.
	And what did he do?
	mean, what did he die?
	What do you die of when you have gone?
	I mean, organ failure.
	Yeah, his system basically shut down.
	They told him, you cannot.
	My biological father drank every day.
	I mean, literally every day.
	There wasn't a day that he didn't drink.
	Wasn't a day.
	And his system, and let me go back a little bit onto that.
	My great-grandfather, his father basically died of the same thing.
	That's why I don't drink.
	That's why I don't drink.
	My brother don't drink, because we know what's in our gene.
	I know what brown alcohol does to me.
	I'm not a good person with brown alcohol.
	My brother is the same way.
	My dad was the same way.
	And my great-grandfather was the same way.
	So it is in our genes that we will fight this disease if we start.
	So that's why I don't drink.
	And what, if I may ask, what of your other three siblings, you get along with them?
	What happened with them?
	Oh, yeah.
	Beautiful.
	I've got a sister that's in the.
	I've got a sister that's in the Navy.
	I got a brother that's in the Air Force.
	And I got another sister that's a nurse.
	That's amazing.
	I was listening to, I forget which podcast it was on, but you were describing your mother as if you got on her bad side, whatever she had in her hand, you were getting hit with.
	My mother, look, look, my mother is a southern woman.
	And we grew up in a way, it's like my dad, when he was going through his schooling and he was a drill sergeant, everybody would be like, oh, man, are you afraid of your?
	I was never afraid of my dad.
	I was never afraid of my dad.
	My mom.
	My mom don't play, man.
	My mom's like, I don't have the time.
	I'm trying to bring you up.
	I'm trying to do everything I can do to give you an awesome life.
	And you're going to go out there and rob, steal, and hurt.
	Boy, my mom will knock me out, dude.
	So, I mean, early on in life, how do you get into being a reverend?
	I mean, and how long have you been doing it for?
	Well, I've been an actual reverend for going on 15 years now.
	With me, it's the same thing.
	I mean, I danced with the devil for years, right?
	I wasn't a good father.
	I wasn't a good.
	I was going down the same hill that my biological father was going down.
	I mean, I wasn't a good father.
	I wasn't a good husband.
	I wasn't a good friend.
	I just wasn't a good person because the things that I was doing.
	And I just got to the point to where I was like, I need help.
	And in 1996, I walked into Burin Missionary Baptist Church and I basically turned my life over to my Lord and Savior.
	And I said, whatever there is for me to do, I will do that.
	I just need to become a better person.
	I mean, I tried to outdeal the devil.
	The devil got to the point where he wouldn't answer my phone calls anymore because I tried to be better than him.
	So just throughout time, man, just time and working and understanding God.
	And then when God gave me the ability to open that book, a book that I read before, but I never understood it, when he gave me the ability to open that book, read it, and then break down what's inside that book to give it to people.
	And here's the thing.
	When I actually start preaching, when I actually start reading the Bible and taking the concepts out of the Bible and give it, it was to homeless people.
	That's when I really, really start going.
	God has given me the ability to go and preach to these people that never been touched, that never hears the word.
	And that's when I knew that he had something out there for me other than me being not a good person.
	I've got to ask because I'm going to be too curious.
	Not a good person.
	Were you drinking at that time?
	Was it neglecting friends, family?
	All of them.
	Name it.
	Name something.
	Did you end up with a criminal record?
	Oh, no, no, no.
	See, that's just the thing.
	I was smart enough not to go over the line.
	There's a line you can go to.
	I mean, you can smoke, you can drink, you can be just a downright dirty person to friends, to family.
	I wasn't there for my kids.
	I wasn't doing the things that I was supposed to do for my wife.
	Things that sort.
	But I realized that I wasn't going to go to the point where I'm going to rob, steal, and things of that sort.
	Now, I'm good.
	You've been married once or have you been married?
	I got married right out of high school to my first wife.
	And this is, I've been married twice.
	Okay, so you get, I got to ask, how old are you?
	I just turned 60.
	Shut the front door.
	Okay, fine.
	So in the 90s, you're already a fully developed older, older, you're an adult at that point in time.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And so and so you get in, you become, when did you get ordained as a minister?
	2013.
	And any particular reason as to why you do it?
	Why did I get ordained?
	It was the plan to go into, I don't want to say missionaries, that might not be the right word, but was the plan to go into trying to help other people through the power of religion?
	Exactly.
	Well, the starting plan was just to get into church because I needed help.
	I needed to find something that were going to get me out of the situations that I were in.
	Like I said before.
	I honestly never thought that I would be standing in the pulpit on a Sunday preaching a sermon until, like I said, I was able to break down the Bible until I started going out and preaching on Sundays.
	I have my little microphone.
	I have my little speaker and my little stand.
	And I would go out to the homeless shelters and I would just start preaching.
	And people would just come and sit on their buckets or sit on their crates and listen to me preach to them.
	That's when I knew that there was a calling there.
	That's when I knew there was something that God wanted me to start doing something.
	But he was showing me what I was to do.
	I was to help those people that are out there now.
	Like, you know, we help the homeless children.
	We help those single moms.
	We help those moms that are in trouble at home with their husbands and things of that sort.
	That's when he hit me with, this is your job.
	This is what I need from you.
	I saved you from a life of hell.
	This is all I asked of you.
	I could do that with no problem.
	And first of all, what kind of dogs do you have?
	Oh, you heard my Geordie.
	He's an Australian shepherd, right?
	And Geordie thinks his whole job is to keep squirrels out the backyard.
	Well, you've got the Australian Shepherd.
	Those things, if they don't chase after small rodents or bigger animals, I think they actually feel unfulfilled in life.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oh, he's the smartest thing.
	Well, like he goes out, he chases a squirrel because it's hot.
	He goes out, he chases the squirrels.
	He comes back in the house.
	He goes to the ice maker on the fridge, gets his ice cube, goes over and see.
	He can get his own ice cubes out of the fridge.
	It's amazing.
	Now, so, Reverend, okay, so you do this.
	Now, you've been doing ordained minister for the last 15 years.
	You're living in Minnesota.
	I mean, we sort of, I say make, we don't make jokes about Minnesota or Illinois, but it becomes the butt of sort of internet tropes, the violence, the crime, the criminality within certain inner cities, big cities.
	I mean, explain for those who have only tangentially driven through Minnesota what it's like there, how bad it is, putting into quotes, and what your mission is in Minnesota.
	Well, we're not a Chicago, right?
	We're not Memphis, Tennessee, my hometown, which I was just there a couple weeks ago and had to get the hell out of there.
	We are, we'll go back to the 90s real quick, if you don't mind, if I can do this real quick, just to give you a brief summary of where we come from.
	When I got here in 1990, this is the best place ever.
	I left Anaheim, California.
	I left California to move here because there was no way we're going to be able to raise a kid in California.
	That's just crazy.
	So we decided to move here to Minnesota.
	When I first got here, man, this is the best place ever.
	I've never, honestly, I've never, I'm a rollerblader.
	I love rollerblading.
	I was able to go downtown.
	You can go downtown.
	You can rollerblade.
	My wife and I used to love to go out in the 90s.
	You can go downtown in the 90s.
	And it was like a melting pot, dude.
	Like everybody was out.
	There was no hate.
	There was no, you know, it was awesome.
	And then in the late 90s, right before, in 96, 97, we started getting an influx of people from Chicago.
	I'm going to ask the crass question.
	I think I know the answer, but influx of people from Chicago, is it, say, inner city people leaving Chicago because of the criminality?
	pretty much a lot of it.
	But those people, the criminal element came with it, yeah.
	And that's when we got into.
	I don't know if you ever heard the phrase murder Apolis.
	No, I've heard different terms for Minneapolis.
	Right.
	Well, we had a phrase going in the 90s called Murder Apolis because of how many black men died during that time.
	During 97 and 99, there was a black man dying pretty much every single day on the street.
	And just so nobody, maybe it misunderstands what I'm saying in terms of like people were fleeing Chicago because of the crime in Chicago.
	That would be, I don't know if it's predominantly black families, but I would imagine it was, say, statistically overrepresented, people leaving Chicago because of it.
	In comes the people who are genuinely trying to leave it and comes with them, I guess, also what you say is a certain element of it, or the next generation of children who have lived through that, bringing that violence effectively to what was up until then small town Minnesota, Minneapolis.
	Right.
	So what was going on, it was like some of the low-level gangs who couldn't make it in Chicago came over to Minneapolis.
	And then the gang war started.
	And problem is the officials here in Minnesota had never seen violence like that ever.
	So they really didn't know how to handle it.
	We had gang summits.
	They tried to get the gangs together.
	They tried to quell some of the shootings, some of the killings.
	And it just was not going to happen.
	It was too late.
	So by the time the officials realized that they had a problem on their hand, it was completely out of control.
	There was pretty much nothing they could do.
	And then you bring in other people from other countries.
	And on top of all of that violence, you bring people from other countries, war-torn countries, who have been fighting each other almost in the same way as the gangs have been fighting.
	You bring them into the mix.
	And we're talking Somalian, Sudanese.
	Pretty much.
	Yep.
	North African.
	And it's almost like you feel like you're walking on eggshells just talking about it because it involves an element of discussion of race and more importantly, immigration policies.
	But we're witnessing this up in Canada where you import or allow mass migration of people who have been warring in foreign nations.
	They don't leave that at the border of the country that they're allegedly fleeing from.
	They import that and bring it into Canada, Montreal, Quebec, et cetera.
	So you have this then, not warring subdivisions within the black community, but you have groups within the black community at large that have conflict with one another.
	Right, right.
	Not only are the black community, the warring factions in the black are warring with each other, now that the Somalis are here, there's another group to add into this whole thing.
	And it's just crazy.
	It's crazy.
	And the problem is the administration, the government here in Minnesota, have zero clue how to handle it.
	So they do this.
	If we don't see it, it's not happening.
	Let's just go do something else and cross our fingers and hope and pray that the police force does something about it.
	Yeah, well, which they don't because the very same politicians who have created this problem then go into defund the police and send in social workers instead of police.
	And then police who get sued and arrested and jailed for intervening in violent crimes stop intervening.
	And then the only people that suffer are the very people who are the most vulnerable in all of this crosshair of crossfire in the first place.
	Pretty much.
	And that's how everything is done here.
	But as long as they don't have to deal with it, you got a governor who he doesn't speak on it.
	You don't hear anything from the governor with all the carjackings, with all the assaults, with the shootings.
	We just had, just the other day, we had a little boy, 11 years old, walking through a park.
	He was shot in the head.
	He's walking through a park, shot in the head.
	We just had a girl, 23 years old, in another park.
	She was shot and killed.
	We just had a girl in Brooklyn Park just the other day shot and killed.
	And it's not even summer yet almost.
	This is, this is, I mean, it's predominantly black on black violence.
	Are there any other gangs in there that?
	No, no.
	Black.
	So, and these are, I don't know if these are innocent victims caught in a crossfire or this is just random violence.
	Like it changes the difference if it's a stray bullet versus an unintended bullet.
	The one question I have is I asked, I had on Dexter Taylor a long time ago and we were talking about it.
	And my question to him was, why does the Jewish community still vote Democrat in disproportionately higher numbers despite their disdain for certain, you know, what one would consider Jewish issues?
	Why does the black community vote disproportionately for the very people that are causing these social issues?
	As far as I'm concerned, unless I'm wrong that it's not Democrat policies, it's just government at large policies.
	Why is it that the biggest victims of the policy vote for the people who implement the policy that victimizes the people who vote them in?
	Well, I can only speak for, and I'm glad you asked this question.
	I can only speak for what happens in Minnesota because it's rare that you're going to hear me say a lot about anything outside of Minnesota, right?
	But here in Minnesota, the Republicans are not worth voting for.
	I mean, I'm going to be flat out honest with you.
	watch this here.
	I'm going to show you something.
	So, you have a hair bill for black women.
	As a Republican, why would you vote against that?
	Why would you vote against giving black women the opportunity to do something that we have done throughout time?
	That's, you know, be able to go next door to have another black woman work on your hair.
	Sir, explain what it's a hair bill.
	There was a hair bill.
	There's this hair bill that was saying that a company could not discriminate against a black woman's hair.
	Number one.
	Number two, they were trying to say that if you're a black woman and you go next door to your black neighbor's house, that if she was to work on your hair, she needs a license to do that.
	There was a bill out there saying that.
	Something that black women did throughout time.
	So this is wild.
	Is this deliberately trying to disparately impact the black community, or is this just a government that's gone totally micromanagingly insane in terms of what?
	Micromanaging is what it is.
	But what I'm trying to get you to understand is Republicans here will vote against black issues.
	They don't come into the black community.
	Dude, when Scott Jensen ran for, watch this, true story.
	When Scott Jensen ran, he's a Republican, when he ran for governor here in Minnesota, I was in the background working with him to try to make him understand that he needed the black vote in order to become elected.
	I could not get this man to come into the black community.
	He would not come in the black community.
	When the guy who was running for attorney general, I invited him to my church.
	He's a Republican.
	He sat in my church and I told him how important it is for him.
	I told him how important it is for him to come into the black community and talk to the black community.
	He would not come in and talk to the black community.
	I cannot get the Republicans here in Minnesota to come into the black community and listen to the problems that we have.
	Now, I'm going to ask a totally stupid question.
	Why is it?
	Is it because A, physically they don't want to come into the communities or B, they maybe A, but also see no political capital in coming into the communities?
	They don't believe that there's any political capital they can get out of the black community.
	They don't believe in just planting crops and seeing what will grow.
	They don't believe that putting money into the black community is going to yield them anything at all.
	Period point blank.
	Here's the deal.
	Even Republicans who run in Hennepin County run as independents.
	They won't run as Republicans because they know they can't win.
	Right?
	Okay.
	Watch this.
	When the problem in the schools was these unruly kids and the Democrats were saying, hey, let's not be able to restrict the airways of kids by slamming them on the ground, by folding them up.
	The Republicans fought tooth and nail to get the okay for these SROs to fold these kids up into knots.
	And who are those kids do you think that was going to happen to the most?
	I'll say black kids.
	Thank you very much.
	I say poor quality public schools who have all sorts of other family issues going on and misbehave at school.
	Exactly.
	And then instead of saying, as Republicans, let's look beyond this to make a difference, to see what the problem is, and see if we can get these kids help.
	See, the problem with Republicans here in Minnesota and why it's hard for them to win statewide is because they don't think.
	And no matter what I do, no matter what I say to them, I've sat down, dude.
	I've sat down with many of Republicans and I've tried to get them to see the other side also, not just one side, but the other.
	It just won't happen.
	I cannot get the Republican Party here to understand that they need to open the tent.
	They need a coalition of people in order to win.
	I mean, is this either a self-fulfilling prophecy or a vicious circle where Republicans say, no matter how bad it gets under Democrats, they still vote for Democrats?
	I think it was like 85% plus the last election.
	Maybe it was down to 80% this time.
	So there's no point in even trying.
	And or flip side, because I've heard this particular criticism from members of the black political community who say they don't do anything to try to garner our vote above and beyond election time issues.
	And then after election comes, nobody says boo.
	Is it a self-fulfilling prophecy?
	And how do you get out of it?
	How do you get out of this vicious circle if it is that?
	How?
	You just say, forget it.
	I'm going.
	I'm going to the meetings.
	I'm going to the town halls.
	I'm going to whatever community facility, whatever community thing that we got going on.
	I'm going.
	I don't care if they don't listen to me.
	I don't care if, but I'm going to be a part of this community.
	See, the problem is the Republicans have a problem in saying police brutality.
	Let's be real about this, right?
	They can't, they see it.
	It's in their face, but they can't say it.
	You can say police brutality and love the police at the same time.
	I've got two uncles right now who are in Memphis, Tennessee, who are on the police force.
	And even they sit there and say, yes, there is police brutality.
	We understand that.
	Republicans can't say that because they believe we have to back the blue no matter what.
	And here in Minnesota, if you were to pull up the DOJ report that was done on the Minneapolis Police Department, you would understand why they're saying defund the police.
	I was in the meetings when they were talking about taking money from the police department and allocating it to another facility.
	Perfect example, the homeless camps.
	No police officers should be used to move a homeless camp ever.
	ever there should be people being a professional people coming in getting those homeless people and doing something different with them moving them or putting them into If I may ask, how bad are the homeless encampments, what we call tent cities in Minnesota?
	Well, what they have done now, my friend, is they if a homeless camp sets up, they send the police in to rouse them, to move them.
	So as long as they don't set up, then we don't have homeless camps anymore.
	As long as they can keep the homeless people moving throughout the city, which is the problem, then they can sit there and say we don't have homeless camps.
	And that's what they do.
	But we've had big camps in Minneapolis.
	In St. Paul's, they're big camps in St. Paul.
	Looking up the stats, it seems that homelessness is going up everywhere.
	And then addressing the issue of the homelessness in the first place.
	I mean, at what point, what do people think of Tim Waltz, Ilan Omar?
	Like, you're in a more conservative, I say silo, but at least an environment.
	Do people hate them?
	Like, do they have any people who actually love them and their policies?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Dude.
	Oh, my God.
	Ilhan, people always sit there and go, wherever, how is Ilhan getting elected over and over and over and over and over and over?
	White people.
	I'm glad.
	Period.
	If you ever go to one of her town halls, dude, it's a sea of white people.
	And anyway, I don't get it.
	I stand there and just look around going, wow, this is crazy.
	This is crazy.
	When did you start getting vocal on social media about policy?
	After Tim Walls let us down, let the black community down when it came to George Floyd, when it came to the COVID.
	I mean, I had Republicans, I can give Republicans, let me say this here about Republicans, right?
	When I put out the call for help to help the black community, to help to feed the black community, Republicans came through like you wouldn't believe, dude.
	I mean, I had truckloads and truckloads of food delivered to my church by Republicans.
	If I may ask, just to interrupt you there, they did in fact shut down your church in Minnesota during COVID?
	Oh, they shut it down to the point to where we could not have service.
	Okay.
	But I was able to feed people, give people bags out of my church during, yeah.
	So you couldn't have service, I presume, and especially with your family background as we talked, they shut down AA meetings.
	They shut down everything that causes the very problems that we've seen a spike of since.
	And at the very least, to Republicans' credit, they were pushing back against those policies everywhere, but maybe not as much as they should have.
	That's right.
	So when during that time when, like I said, when Tim Walls basically let the black community down, that's when I start saying enough's enough.
	And people is like, well, Rev, what do you think about this?
	Rev, what do you think about this?
	Rev, what do you think about this?
	My video went viral when I went to the Capitol and I told, I sat in front of Republicans and I sat in front of the Democrats and I asked somebody to give a damn about the very community that they say they love.
	And that video, that video went viral.
	And that's basically when I said, you know what, I guess I got a voice.
	I guess this is my next stage that God put me on to give me a voice to talk to people, to say the things that needs to be said.
	And I've heard you say things that one would think would piss off the black community to the extent that you're speaking on.
	I mean, before we even get into that, have you received blowback?
	Do you get okay?
	Now, this is going to be my question.
	there are certain tropes that you hear on the internet and they're, they're statistics and, you know, Like if someone says, yes, there's statistical overrepresentation of black youth in crime.
	That's a statistical fact.
	Where I think it gets racist is if someone says it's genetic, it's brain development, whatever.
	And whereas others say it's cultural, I don't know that that qualifies as racism.
	I think that might be culture issues because there are definitely cultural disparities within the black community, most notably fatherless homes.
	Historically, I mean, my understanding is it started under some of the Democrat policies, welfare policies.
	We admit, we recognize there's a problem.
	What do you attribute that problem to?
	And how do you see the black community addressing it and coming out of it?
	Well, to go back to, you know, like you were saying, do I get blowback?
	Yes, I do.
	Right now, so when I was growing up back in the 60s and the 70s, my family was poor, poor, as poor as you can get.
	I mean, we lived in a shack.
	We did.
	We lived in an old, my grand, I grew up in an old barn, a barn where they raised animals in.
	That was my house.
	But when we needed something, whether it's clothes, whether it's food, whether it's shoes, whatever we needed, we were able to go to the black church.
	What people forget, when you're asked to pay your tithes, your tithes should always be clothes, shoes, food.
	It's not always money.
	The church has gotten away from the true value of what a church should and supposed to be.
	When I was growing up, we were able to go, we went to church.
	We got shoes, we got clothes, we got coats, we got hats, we got gloves, we got all the things we needed right from the church.
	The church don't do that anymore because the pastors are driving around in Lamborghinis, flying around in airplanes.
	The church has gotten away from what it's supposed to be doing for the people.
	Now, I know people are going to get mad at me for saying that, but that's the damn truth.
	No if, no ands, no buts.
	So the black community have nothing to guide it anymore.
	Before it was the church, before it was MLK, before it was a pastor who would make sure that when people needed potatoes, potatoes was there on the table for you to take.
	We don't have that no more.
	We don't have a guide to where we're supposed to go and where we're supposed to be.
	Now we got babies having babies.
	We got 30-year-old grandmothers keeping their three to four grandkids.
	While the kids get to go out now and enjoy the life that they didn't have instead of being home and taking care of their kids.
	And grandma can't take care of these kids.
	So these kids get to run the streets and do whatever they want to.
	That's why you got a 12, 13, 14 year old boy carrying a firearm.
	Because nobody is being held accountable.
	So you want, you say, well, how do we fix that?
	One of the things for three years, bro, I have been asking for a detention center.
	Not a jail, not a prison, but a place where we can put these kids.
	And it's not every, see, and that's another thing.
	It's not every kid in the black community is bad.
	We got a handful of kids that need help.
	And this is what we do.
	Those bad kids, we arrest those kids.
	We put them in jail for six months.
	And then we take that very kid that we put in jail and harden him.
	And we put him back in the same mess that he's trying to escape.
	And until we take care of the in-home, it doesn't matter what we do to that kid because we're just going to take him, we'll fix him, and we put him back in the same situation.
	Yeah, the problem is it's generational brokenness the way you're describing it.
	It is.
	But then it takes generational repairedness because it's true.
	I can hear people in the chat saying, you put them in a detention center.
	If you don't take them off the streets, they're going to commit crimes.
	The solution, you have to put them in a detention center, call it a whatever.
	It's not going to solve the problem because they don't have a structured family to go back to.
	That's where I was going at.
	And just like I said before, it's not as if the whole neighborhood is messed up.
	In that neighborhood, we know which kid it is and we know which family it is.
	So what we need to do is we need to zero in on that family.
	Find out what, because if it's one kid in that family, it's three kids in that family, right?
	If it's three kids in that family, it's four kids in that family that has this problem.
	Until we get to the point to where we zero, and I know the right wing love to sit there and say, well, there's no black fathers in the family.
	I'm done with that because this is what I know.
	Because I coach baseball and I coach basketball.
	I know that same thing with white kids.
	I've been in the detention center right there on 13th Avenue.
	There's a lot of white kids in there, right?
	And those kids need the same help that these kids need.
	So I want to remove the racism out of it and say I want to help everybody because, see, what people completely forget is there are poor white kids that's in that same community that's going through the same thing.
	But nobody likes to talk about them.
	Nobody wants to get that kid help.
	This isn't just black kids.
	This is kids that I'm talking about helping.
	I'm not just talking about black kids.
	I don't just help black people.
	I go out to Glencoe, Minnesota, which is 99.9% white.
	And I help the poor white people out there also.
	I just like to make sure that we're not homing in just on black people.
	No, no.
	First of all, I also appreciate that because- It's anybody.
	It's what I think true good religion does is it doesn't focus on a demographic, but I say it doesn't focus on a racial, ethnic demographic, but the demographic of need.
	But how much of the people are going to say, like, you know, statistical, there's white kids in there, but statistically speaking, the old 1352, that 52% of violent crimes committed by 13% of the population.
	And then the reality is that it's probably even less because you're dealing with a specific age bracket within a community that commits the majority of the crime.
	But it goes back to what you say, it's being soft on the wrong types of criminals, which the repeat criminals go out and overrepresent in the stats.
	And some people are going to say that the fatherless black family issue is the indirect or foreseeable consequence of the welfare policies that were put in that incentivize procreation without a father.
	First question there.
	Do you find fault in those policies that have contributed to this issue?
	I do.
	I do.
	I mean, we've opened a door for, you know.
	So this mother, nine kids, no father.
	I mean, I got three kids.
	It's tough enough to be a father to three kids, and it's tough enough being a kid with two siblings and a father.
	I cannot imagine it.
	And the diamond in the rough that would make it through that and then write a book and say, this is how I survived it.
	But odds are odds.
	And nine kids living without A, a father figure and B, a family.
	I mean, it's quite clear what they're going to do.
	They're going to fall to the streets.
	That's right.
	At the end of the day.
	And at some point in time, not only do we have to start talking about this, but see, people are afraid to talk about it.
	And because we know what it's going to turn into.
	It's going to turn into a meme or it's going to turn into a right-wing pundit using it to use it in a racial undertone.
	Either racial or political to say it's a racial issue and the black population X or it's a political issue, the Democrats X, and using the victims of policy or just using the stats to further political ideology and not actually to solve the bloody problem.
	Right.
	And because people always say, well, why do black people not like Candace Owens?
	Okay.
	So is that true?
	I thought, I don't think any, I think I've noticed the love and the hate is pretty evenly divided.
	Does the black community not appreciate it?
	We don't deal with Candace Owens.
	That's your guy.
	That's your girl.
	That's your girl.
	Well, I'm Jewish.
	I don't think she's my girl.
	Oh, my goodness.
	You, oh, my, sorry.
	Totally myself.
	I'm joking, Tip.
	No, no, no.
	I actually have zero problem with Candace.
	But that being said, I'm told that I'm an idiot.
	I'm told I'm self-hating for not having an issue with her.
	But sorry, go on.
	That was just a funny.
	But I don't mind what Candace say.
	See, here's my thing.
	If you're going to step on the black community, then be a part of the black community.
	I got a picture.
	I can show you the picture of me handing Candace Orange my card and asking her to come back here to Minneapolis and walk the streets with me to see the very people that she steps on, that she pisses on.
	The very people who needs help from somebody like her with her influence.
	Do you realize that if she was to open her mouth, what she could do for my church and the people that I could help just from her words, from helping, but that's not what she do.
	She steps on the very people that needs help.
	And other people love it because that's what they get off on.
	So that's what I'm saying.
	If you're going to dog the community, then help the community.
	I don't mind.
	That's what people sit there and say, well, wherever you say all of this here about the black community, don't they get mad at you?
	Some do, but others look at it and go, the dude just paid for a black woman to sit in a hotel for a whole week until her family was able to get her, come get her and her three kids from an abusive relationship.
	Right?
	That's what I do.
	They know what I do in the community.
	So can I talk about the community?
	Yeah, I can.
	Why?
	Because I'm out in the streets at 2 o'clock in the morning telling kids to go home.
	I got to ask you this.
	On the one hand, there's the neurotic nervous part of me.
	I can understand why someone would not want to walk the streets with you only because nobody wants to be a victim of random crime.
	Are you doing what you're doing?
	Are you not, do you not, I mean, are you not scared?
	I appreciate you might have a faith in God, but that doesn't mean anybody wants to meet him sooner than later.
	Are you not...
	That reads, the Second Amendment is my first priority.
	All right, now you'll get some love from whoever you lost in the chat.
	You'll get that love back.
	Because I actually did want to get here.
	I know this policy of you is that you believe strongly in Second Amendment rights and specifically for vulnerable women.
	But, okay, so you are, I won't say packing.
	I don't know if that's legal in Minnesota, but you are authorized to carry and you believe, and that's the way that you can protect yourself.
	And it's God's God-given right to protect yourself.
	Okay.
	And now flesh that out as well, because some people would say, I don't think it's contradictory at all, but some people are going to say, look, guns in the hands of children is a problem.
	So take the guns off the street.
	Clearly, you're not subscribing to that view.
	So what's your solution to that problem?
	So how are these kids getting these guns?
	So we got to figure that out.
	How's a 14-year-old kid getting a gun?
	Theft black market straw man purchases.
	So, we've got to go after that.
	We've got to go after these people who know that they can bring a $500 gun into the city and get $1,000 for that gun.
	That's a true fact, right?
	Do we need new laws?
	No, we don't.
	Because the laws that are on the books right now, right now, if a 13-year-old boy stitch a gun in your face and takes your car, that gun charge should carry five years automatically.
	Automatically five years.
	No if, ands, or buts.
	Just him having a gun by itself.
	But that's not what they do.
	So you go to court and they go, well, we're going to get you for kidnapping or we're going to get you for robbery.
	But then we dropped a gun charge.
	Why?
	Why are we dropping so many?
	Here in Minnesota, if you do something with a gun, they drop the gun charge.
	Yeah.
	Minneapolis DA puts the criminals right back on the street, like revolving, revolving.
	Right there.
	Thank you.
	It's an amazing thing because some people are going to say you're only going to turn them into more hardened criminals by locking them away for mandatory minimums for gun crimes.
	Flip side, there is a Rubicon that you cross when you commit a crime with a deadly weapon.
	Like that's a Rubicon that I don't know what if love, I don't think love is the solution to that problem.
	Punishment and deterrence certainly is.
	We have to, I like how you ended that, deterrence.
	We've got to get people to think that if I do something wrong, I'm going to be held accountable, man.
	I mean, somewhere, somehow, we've got to get people to understand I'm going to be held accountable when I do and if I do something wrong.
	The problem is these kids, they know they're not going to be held accountable.
	I can keep doing it up to a point.
	I can keep doing it.
	As long as I don't, if I steal somebody's car and I go racing through the streets, and as long as I don't crash it and hurt somebody, I can run that car out of gas and go get me another car without any consequences.
	And we just can't have that.
	So what I've asked is we need a military style detention center.
	Because the problem is these kids, they have zero chance that at any point in time in their life until they reach 18, that they're going to be held accountable.
	So even when I'm out on the streets at night and I'm telling these kids to go home, I've been cursed out.
	I've been called names.
	I've even had the sad part about my community is when I have moms curse me out because I'm telling their kids to get off the streets and to go home.
	You're probably an easier target to verbally abuse than the other legitimate targets.
	So it's easier to cuss you out than it is to tell their kids to behave and put the guns down or stop the crime.
	And yeah, you're easier to take advantage of.
	Right, right.
	So we deal with that.
	And my mindset is, again, like we started off talking about the Second Amendment.
	I totally believe in the Second Amendment.
	I totally believe that everybody has a right to a firearm.
	Everybody has a right to carry a firearm.
	And maybe if everybody had a firearm, maybe the criminal will think twice.
	That's my mindset.
	Do I ever have a feeling that I have to use it?
	Only a few times.
	Only a few times.
	It is what it is, man.
	Yeah, well, no, I mean, the mission becomes clear, I say, in the context of your life.
	It's wild.
	I've been following you for a while.
	I loved, we don't need to sully up this discussion with the Epstein stuff.
	I'll do that with Benny Johnson at the turn of the hour, but you're on a mission and it's fantastic.
	How can people support you?
	I mean, to some extent, people are going to say this is Minnesota.
	This is Minneapolis.
	This is your district.
	How can people from outside help?
	And also, how can people from within help?
	Well, one of the things that I am doing, and I can definitely announce this on your program here, because the government here in Minnesota is not right.
	It's not treating everybody fair.
	And one of the things that you can go back and listen to me, you can go back 10, 15 years and you hear me say that I'm not a Republican, nor am I a Democrat.
	I will always be a conservative.
	That's what I believe in.
	That's how I was born.
	That's how I was brought up.
	My grandfather never made the switch.
	My grandfather died a Republican.
	He voted for Richard Nixon.
	My uncles are conservative.
	Have I voted Democrat before?
	Yes, I have.
	But I'm an issue.
	I vote on issues.
	That's how I vote.
	I don't vote for a party.
	You will never hear me pushing the party for a Democrat.
	You will never hear me pushing the party for a Republican.
	But you will hear me pushing for people.
	That's what Jesus did.
	Jesus wasn't a party pusher.
	Jesus went after people.
	That's what I like.
	I want people.
	I want whether you're black, whether you're brown, whether you're white, whether you're gray, whether you're orange.
	I don't care.
	I want to help people.
	That's my job.
	That's what my book.
	When I read my Bible, my Bible tells me people.
	It didn't have an R. There's not an R in my Bible, and there's not a D in my Bible.
	And if people don't understand that, then you need to sit down and really read your Bible and really understand your Bible because Jesus would have helped anybody, whether they're poor or whether they're rich.
	He would have helped them.
	No ifs, ands, or buts.
	So when it's all said and done, I am on a ticket right now with Brad Kohler.
	Brad Kohler is running for the governor of Minnesota, and I am running as his lieutenant governor of Minnesota.
	We've got to get this state back to where it was when I got here in 1990.
	We are letting this state get out of hand.
	Period.
	Point blank.
	I get to not use the Lord's name in vain from your mouth to God's ears.
	I've given everyone your Twitter handle.
	What other website or where should they go if they want to follow support?
	Usually Twitter is pretty much the only thing that I'm on.
	They want to get a hold of me and they can just hit me up on Twitter with that.
	Oh, I thought I had my YouTube.
	I do have a YouTube.
	They can go on YouTube also under Rip It Up with Rev Christopher.
	You can go look me up on YouTube.
	I am on there also.
	Amazing.
	We'll do this again periodically because there's still more ground to cover.
	Time flies.
	It's amazing.
	Everyone's got the link to your Twitter feed follow.
	It's a good Twitter feed.
	Sounds like a deal.
	I appreciate you.
	Thank you very much for having me on, man.
	Seriously.
	No, no, I felt bad.
	I mean, I forgot that we discussed this in December.
	I was like, oh, time to, it's freaking July.
	It's mid-July now.
	By the way, again, the typos, I set the stream up ASAP like first thing in the morning because I just wanted to get you the link and get Benny Johnson the link.
	I was supposed to go, and then I forgot to get back to it before, you know, 30 minutes before the show.
	But, Reverend, we do this again.
	Well, you tell Benny I said, tell Benny I said hi.
	Well, Benny, come on and say hi before Reverend Christopher.
	What's going on, Reverend?
	What's up, homie?
	How you doing, my friend?
	I listen to you.
	I don't agree with everything that you say, but hey, I do give you a listen.
	I like to listen to different people with different points of views with everything.
	So I just want you to know that I do listen.
	Just like my friend here, can't say we all three agree with everything each other say.
	But hey, dude, I've got to give you the respect.
	Thank you very much, Reverend.
	We'll talk soon.
	And now we're going to get into the dirty Epstein stuff, which we need to have fun.
	I have fun.
	All right, we'll do.
	Have a good day.
	Benny, what the hell's going on with the Epstein stuff?
	All right.
	First off, let me introduce you.
	Everybody knows who you are.
	Benny, what the hell is going on?
	I want your take before I go off the rails on this.
	What do you think is happening?
	And are you taking flack for being reasonable or somewhat say critical of how the administration is dealing with the Epstein issue?
	So let's go back to the beginning, Vivo.
	Why is there an Epstein issue at all?
	If you go back and check the tape, way back in 2015, you'll find that President Trump was the first man, then candidate Trump, was the first man in the political arena ever to mention the name Jeffrey Epstein.
	Nobody had ever even talked about him before.
	Donald Trump brought it up because he knew how utterly toxic and nuclear and criminal the Epstein enterprise was as it related to running against Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton for the White House.
	And he brought it up and he told the world before we knew about Epstein's island, before we knew about Prince Andrew, he said it live on stage.
	It was a genius move.
	President Trump brought Jeffrey Epstein into the political arena because he knew what an absolute cesspool it was.
	And he said so live on stage at CPAC.
	And you can tell the audience doesn't even know what he's talking about.
	So anyway, I just want to first off thank Donald Trump for that.
	Without Donald Trump, we probably just really wouldn't know.
	There wouldn't be the kinetic value to the Epstein question.
	And it's part of Trump's lore.
	According to the police officers in Palm Beach, it's President Trump who tipped them off that Jeffrey Epstein was a pedo, that Jeffrey Epstein was doing untoward things in Palm Beach.
	And according to the prosecutors who put away Epstein the first time in Florida before the feds let him off on a sweetheart deal, in fact, Jeffrey Epstein should be in prison for the rest of his life if he was just properly charged in 2008.
	According to the prosecutors, Donald Trump was the only guy to ever help them out.
	So I just want to like lay the groundwork here, Viva, that Donald Trump has a commendable history with this topic and that he had worked, you know, that he's done good work, right, to put Epstein in prison.
	So that's why this turn, this heel turn, I don't get and I don't understand at all.
	I don't understand because what's happening right now is the sins of past administrations and past corruption is now shadowing, appalling, and smearing good people, I think, who have good intentions inside of the Trump administration.
	And it's now like it's because of what I believe to be incompetence, mismanagement, lack of a handling, lack of an understanding of the power of this topic and the rabid interest in it.
	Now, there are people who are unfortunately going to be suffering major career dings and real lacks of trust with the American people on this topic, on this issue.
	And it doesn't make any sense to me because it didn't have to be this way.
	Donald Trump has a great record on this subject, and he promised that he'd be releasing everything.
	And here we are.
	And it's the amazing thing is it causes people to legitimize what I think are bona fide either conspiracy theories or just stupid theories that Trump is on the list.
	I don't believe for a bloody second that Trump is on the list, but now you can't as easily write off, well, someone in Trump's orbit must be on the list.
	The list.
	We're using it colloquially, people.
	Like nobody thinks there's a to-do list or a client list on Epstein's fridge.
	Everyone understood what was meant by the client list.
	Like Jeffrey Epstein was sex trafficking children to people.
	I don't know.
	Maybe you could get convicted for sex trafficking to yourself.
	Everyone always understood Prince Andrew was involved.
	It wasn't procuring children to traffic to himself.
	Everybody always knew that for the last decade.
	And you're right.
	Trump put it on blast and not normalized it, but exposed the world to it.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, totally.
	He mainstreamed Epstein.
	We've done a ton of research on this.
	Actually, it was Trump first who mainstreamed Epstein as a genius move to use against the Clintons in 2016.
	And it worked, of course.
	The question is this.
	It's a personal question because you are close with, say, administration.
	You do great work.
	I think the administration likes you.
	And you get into Alligator Alcatraz and you get the hat and the merch.
	Do you feel any, if I can ask this, pushback or sinister feeling that the administration, it's not just bungling it, but that they want the most prominent vocal spokespeople on this to shut their mouths?
	And I'm talking about you.
	No, I haven't gotten any call like that.
	I've made a ton of calls myself to find out what the hell is happening here.
	You know, I mean, why do you have friends?
	You know, you have the best friends that you got are the ones that can correct you when you're wrong and that can stop you from getting in a bar fight, right?
	Where you're going to get your ass kicked.
	Those are your best friends.
	Okay.
	The bad people, your bad friends, your shitty friends are the ones that like let you get your ass kicked.
	Right.
	And I want to stop that from happening.
	I'm trying to help.
	And so I'm calling around to try and figure out what's going on here.
	And I've been met with two responses.
	One is not going to surprise you and one will.
	The first response that I've gotten from inside the White House and the administration is extreme frustration and anger at how this has been rolled out.
	So I'm assuming, Viva, I haven't been told this directly, but I'm assuming, and it's just a basic assumption, that it's the intel agencies that are putting a stop to this and that are saying sources and methods can't touch it.
	Don't talk about it.
	Put an end to it now.
	We know that Ehud Barak, prime minister of Israel, was in and out of Epstein's apartment, that it was business partners with him, right?
	So you're bringing down entire Israeli political parties now, okay?
	Entire Israeli, maybe intelligence operations.
	We'll see.
	Dershowitz was on my show.
	Dershowitz says totally plausible that he was an Intel agent for Mossad.
	In fact, Dershowitz says, I brought him to Israel once and set him up with the Israeli government.
	Insane admission.
	But anyway, the point is, let's say, let's take it.
	Let's take it prima fascio, okay?
	This guy, and Intel has stopped all of this.
	Intel has stopped it, and this is the conclusion they have to come to.
	Well, then why do it this way?
	Why leak it to an illiberal reporter at Axios who hates you in the dark of night on 4th of July weekend after a series of historic Trump victories, Viva?
	It's maddening.
	It's the worst possible release.
	The worst possible release.
	It's like it's intended to do the maximum amount of damage to Trump and his base.
	And it enrages me.
	And I've heard that from inside those frustrations from inside of the administration, that the rollout here was insane.
	To highlight an undated, unsigned document that no one, as far as I know other than Caroline Levitt, has spoken to, not Pam Bondi, not Cash Patel.
	And I floated that theory that like if one were intending to discredit, demoralize the movement, you go after the most vocal populist spokespeople or actors in that movement, Cash Patel and Dan Bongino being two of them, and you do something that would be utterly embarrassing for them to have to either admit if indeed what they've been saying is wrong or frustrating that they can't speak out if what is being told now is wrong and they were actually right.
	When you talk about the Intel community, I guess the question is, who are you talking about?
	Because people are going to say it's Bongino, it's Patel, deputy director, director of the FBI, or what's her face, Bondi, who's the AG.
	I think that there are holdovers and saboteurs within the Intel community.
	And I'm just curious, when you say like the Intel community is saying shut it down, who is that?
	Is that the deep state apparatus within the government?
	I would say it's the CIA.
	Based on all the interviews and research that we've done on our program, I would say it's the CIA.
	Because, I mean, who would ask yourself, which Intel agency, Viva, needs to operate off the shores of the American homeland?
	Which Intel agency would be able to operate on an island in international watchers?
	It's not hard to do the math there.
	And if Jeffrey Epstein, and we know that he had connections, of course, throughout the world and with foreign intel agencies, not just the Israelis, but also the French and the British.
	Well, you know, could the CIA put a stop to this?
	Well, they already did, right?
	Like they already did very publicly with Alex Acosta.
	He belongs to Intel.
	Shut up.
	Shut up.
	Let him out of jail.
	Well, he's guilty of sin.
	He's like, you know, he's molesting these little girls.
	Put him out of jail.
	He belongs to Intel.
	He's held up his end of the bargain.
	Now let him free.
	They've already pulled that card before.
	They're most likely pulling it again.
	And here's what I found out in my calls.
	In my calls to various sources inside of federal law enforcement and the Department of Justice, FBI, and so on.
	I found that the FBI doesn't have anything.
	Like truly, the FBI doesn't house or keep this type of evidence.
	And This type of evidence is actually cloistered in the Southern District of New York because that's where the Jelaine Maxwell trial was.
	That's where the Epstein trial was about to be before he killed himself in his prison cell.
	And that, the preponderance of evidence, everything you've seen, all the photos you've seen for his mansions, the raid of his island was done by the NYPD.
	Look closely at the raid footage.
	You can see NYPD officers there on Little St. James.
	All that was hoovered up to New York, where they have this really tight seal on the evidence itself, where the lawyers out of the Southern District of New York, they all go to these white shoe law firms, right?
	They all have, it's called the independent state because they don't like to answer to Maine Justice.
	And that's where all the evidence is under seal.
	It is not sitting in a drawer at the FBI.
	It is not under a bed at the DOJ.
	It is there.
	And I have that on some pretty high powered authority.
	Now, the DOJ can step in and can request that evidence, but be it that it's under seal and Jelaine Maxwell is appealing her case, a judge is going to have to allow that.
	And they're going to have to like make a ton of motions in order to get that.
	And typically that evidence is only available to the attorneys and the judge.
	The degree to which I'm being gaslit, I question my own memory.
	We were told back in the day, FBI was alleging that the SDNY head office was withholding, concealing, or transporting Epstein documents.
	Bondi, I'm not going crazy, right?
	She issued what we called a stern letter at the time.
	It was either her or Cash Patel.
	And now we're just here literally just saying, we've got the entire file.
	There's nothing to see here.
	That never happened.
	How do you try to erase that memory in real time?
	I don't know.
	I'm just saying that they, I'm just telling you what I've heard from inside is that they won't release the evidence.
	That it's under seal and that there's a pan that there's a there is a system right now in place that's that has locked the evidence down because of the Jelaine Maxwell appeal.
	Okay, that makes a slight bit of sense, but that's not the explanation that's being given.
	You said one explanation was going to be.
	It makes a lot of sense.
	Like it makes a lot of sense.
	Go out and explain that and then make a promise to the American people that they're going to get the evidence afterward.
	Like that's what you should do.
	You said one explanation was going to not going to surprise me and one would.
	Which one was the one that's going to surprise me or was that it?
	The one that's going to surprise you is that right now the Department of Justice, right now the DOJ has the has access to all of the evidence.
	Everything that you've seen in the federal filings, everything, all the footage of the box of diamonds, the manila envelope full of passports, all of the strange things from inside of his home.
	I mean, the argument to be made here is to restore faith with the American people, just release some of it.
	There's not a single human being on earth that's calling for predator material to be released on the internet.
	Nobody is calling for that.
	Nobody's asking for that.
	So just release some of it.
	That's all.
	Like just a little bit.
	Like his cookbooks, his paintings, his cars, text messages, emails, bank accounts.
	Where'd he get his money?
	These kind of like little things would establish trust with the American people.
	And you could do that.
	And that's how you actually fix, that's how you set the pressure release valve.
	Like you let the pressure out a little bit, right?
	Instead of continuing to ramp up the pressure.
	But telling people there's nothing here and to go away, that's how you accelerate the pressure.
	It was one of my things.
	I genuinely believe that Trump and America was pulled into those Iran strikes by Israel's premature bombardment.
	But then Trump doesn't want to burn all the bridges or humiliate the people publicly.
	So he has to play along.
	Oh, yeah, this was all part of the plan.
	I genuinely believe that this is possibly a matter of undermining the administration by humiliating the key people within it.
	Because you humiliate the deputy director and the director of the FBI.
	You get to discredit Trump's FBI.
	And I have a feeling that Trump's response yesterday about the Epstein question is him trying to loyally defend the people that he believes are loyal to him and say, look, all right, not move on in the sense that he's in a bad position now where he can't act in a way that would throw them under the bus if he wants to hold on to his FBI.
	What was your take on Trump's response to that question yesterday?
	He was clearly trying to defend his own people.
	He was clearly just trying to like, my take on it is that while the, well, the Streisand effect is going to apply in a major way here, he's clearly trying to defend his own squad.
	And he realizes that this is something that probably wasn't done correctly.
	And he's trying to just like tighten it up and move along.
	Right.
	And that's a strategy.
	Right.
	But again, the Streisand effect applies where if you tell people in the year 2025, trust me, bro, we looked into it.
	We're good.
	Uh, when And some of their worst, actually, it's going to inspire some of their worst assumptions about Jeffrey Epstein is they're going to come out.
	No, they're going to come out now and say that Trump foreign policy is controlled by blackmail, and that's why he made certain decisions to support or get involved in Iran.
	And it's wild.
	The question was this.
	The video footage which Patel talked about on Bongino a while back of the cell.
	I've been asking the question publicly.
	I haven't gotten not even a satisfactory answer.
	I haven't gotten recognition from anyone in the administration.
	They show 10 hours of footage showing that no one walked in or out of Epstein's cell.
	People on the internet are saying, congrats, that was not the cell.
	It was the one next to it.
	So you can't even really see what's going on.
	Set that aside.
	Assume that what they gave you is what they say it is, 10 hours showing no one entered or exited Epstein's cell.
	My question is, is that even normal under prison protocol, especially for someone who was on suicide watch two weeks earlier, eight hours of uninterrupted rest and peace and pun intended.
	Have you ever asked anybody whether or not, even if assuming that's true, that's proper prison protocol?
	I've never asked anybody that.
	I would really like to go and explore that wing of The prison.
	Like, I'd really like to go.
	We actually made a request to go up there and to try and like film to show people what the conditions were.
	I think it's important for everybody to see.
	And the best that you can tell inside of the prison itself, there is absolutely no way that the camera angle that they gave us would show somebody being able to go into or out of his prison tier.
	The angle's all wrong.
	It's just the basic entry to the floor.
	It doesn't actually show Jeffrey Epstein's cell, cell door, or even his tier.
	It's out of frame.
	So somebody conceivably could have gone into Epstein's tier and done anything they wanted to.
	Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer, Alan Dershowitz, said on Kim Iverson's show that it's the guards who killed him.
	It was actually the only way that he was allowed to kill himself is the help of the guards.
	The guy dying in federal custody in a maximum security prison, having been given like a bunch of extra linens and a bed to hang himself from, like, let's just assume that he did hang himself.
	That alone is a massive scandal.
	Someone says suicide watches are checked every couple of hours, except he was taken off suicide watch two weeks before after allegedly having attempted to take his own life.
	I'd like to know who was the doctor, psychiatrist that recommended that.
	But I take it at its face value, what they showed you, no one went in or out for 10 hours.
	That's a conspiracy.
	And that he had extra linens to do this is the conspiracy.
	How much damage do you foresee this doing?
	Because they want everyone to shut up and move on.
	I'm not shutting up.
	I'm not moving on.
	What do I know?
	I don't have any inside information or even extra information.
	I can just go based on what they're saying, what they've said in the past, what they're saying now, what they said within the last three months.
	None of it makes any sense.
	And it's going to do damage.
	What do you think the scope of the damage is going to be?
	I mean, the most common thing that is said in American politics is promises made, promises kept, right?
	And to their great credit, the Trump administration has kept a ton of promises, whether it be mass deportations or whether it be the tightening up of some of the January 6th prosecutions.
	They've just brought charges against James Comey and John Brennan.
	Okay, that's cool.
	There have been some major promises kept, but this was a promise.
	Like we didn't make the promise.
	It's something that the base was calling for.
	And so the promise to the base was that we would treat this with the respect and focus that it deserves, and that you're going to get a full disclosure here.
	And those promises were made by high-level Trump administration officials, some of them on my show.
	And they said, we're going to release everything.
	And there's not going to be a billionaire or a prime minister or a head of an intel agency or a former president that will be protected.
	And you're going to get it all.
	And we're not going to protect pederists.
	And so that's their promise.
	And so I really don't know where to go from here because just wrapping it up and saying there's nothing to see here, don't worry, we checked on it, bro.
	You have to show your work.
	Like we are in an era where you have to show your work.
	So let's say you absolutely had to do that.
	Let's say that let's say the truth is that he was working for a ton of Intel agencies and we can't let you see any of it because it's, you know, because it's too damning and it would collapse the whole damn disease church.
	Okay.
	Well, you have to go out on TV and say it.
	Sorry, you just got to do it.
	You got to go out there and say, you know what?
	He was working with Intel and it's nasty, nasty business and all of it's classified and we're not allowed to share it and it sucks and it's terrible.
	And you have to come out and say that.
	You have to explain yourself.
	You have to explain your work here.
	You can't just say, in spite of all of the evidence that we've seen, including evidence of, let's just say this.
	So the headline at Axios was there was no blackmail.
	Well, we've literally watched Epstein blackmail people.
	It has been well reported that he blackmailed Bill Gates.
	It has been well reported that Bill Gates was hooking up with a 20-year-old young Russian bridge player and that Epstein introduced them, hosted them.
	We all know what that means.
	And that he was blackmailing Bill Gates during that time period.
	This has been well reported.
	New York Times, Wall Street Journal, this has been well reported.
	So to come out and say that, that that didn't happen, is an absurdity.
	And it insults intelligence.
	So I'm not sure what the way out is now.
	Now that this has been done, I mean, I'm not sure what you do next.
	The article is two years old.
	Jeffrey Epstein allegedly tried to extort Bill Gates over extramarital affair.
	And the fact that it's two years old means that it's like, it is crazy that if like, maybe it's embarrassing.
	Maybe Patel was wrong.
	Bill Gates was not begging Congress or whatever, you know, to not release the list.
	Maybe the speculation of Bongino was wrong.
	I happen to not think it was.
	I think it was absolutely accurate.
	I think they had probably better intel based on their sources at the time than they do now, because the very same, this is what drives me crazy, Benny, the very same literal criminal organization that they are now investigating.
	Did they press charges against Comey?
	Not yet, right?
	They've only announced an investigation, a criminal investigation, I think.
	Yes.
	They're saying it was a criminal FBI DOJ organization that handed the file over to us.
	And now we can rely on those findings.
	But by the way, it was a criminal organization.
	Now we're going to go investigate them for Russia Gate.
	You cannot hold those two thoughts and those arguments in your head on paper at the same time.
	It's ideologically, intellectually incompatible.
	I don't know what the answer is to this.
	I don't believe Trump was on it.
	I believe there's obviously, I say, good reasons for making certain mistakes.
	And maybe this all pans out well at the end of the day.
	But forgiving and forgetting and just moving on is not really an option.
	But it should make them very angry because the actual criminality was done by previous regimes.
	It's the easiest get out of jail free card ever, which is saying like the scumbags are the ones who did this in 2008.
	Where were we all in 2008?
	Donald Trump was a TV host in 2008.
	They're the people who really let the guy off.
	And they're the people who let him out of jail free.
	And so why are we having to suffer from the sins of previous deep state administrations?
	And so I would love to see that motivation to get to the bottom of it because there's no reason that this live grenade should have been landed in the lap of the Trump administration and exploded.
	Have you asked any of your sources why the memo Was undated and unsigned?
	I've asked whoever I know on the inside, haven't gotten any answer yet.
	Have you asked that question?
	Got no answer.
	It's so strange.
	Why would it be leaked to Axios?
	Listen, again, if you have to do this, Viva, the way to do it from a media perspective is you go and you sit down, you know, you book something probably like Brett Baer and Martha McCallum, right?
	You book like some hard news show on Fox and you go there.
	You know, you're going to get tough follow-up questions.
	You answer questions for a straight hour.
	Then you go to a press conference on it.
	You bring all of your material.
	You show your work.
	You show the American people why you came to your conclusion.
	A gleaming example of this is Tulsi Gabbard, who did a lot of press on the JFK documents released.
	She released hundreds of thousands of documents.
	Some of them were humiliating, actually, for the Intel agencies.
	Some of them exposed, like Operation Mongoose, for instance, that they were creating bioweapons to drop on Cuba.
	Like these are fully exposed in these documents.
	Everything from Mossad and Israel and his nuclear program to cover-ups from the mob, it's all there.
	There's this big constellation that you can kind of put together with JFK.
	And while it doesn't solve, it's not perfect, and there were a few small redactions, generally it was unredacted.
	And the Trump administration just did that.
	And that's a promise made and a promise kept.
	And that's a great model for what has to happen with Epstein.
	To stop the feeding frenzy on Epstein, you have to release everything.
	And there are still more files to come out with JFK.
	This is a good start, a really good start that built trust with the American people.
	They should follow that model.
	They have to.
	What do you make?
	I know you got a note in a couple of minutes.
	What do you make of the attempt to wash away what Pam Bondi said?
	Well, she said, the file's on my desk.
	I never said I saw it.
	And I'm like having this discussion with someone.
	I'm like, no, the question that led to that was the DOJ might be releasing the list of Epstein clients.
	Is that going to happen?
	And she says, not, there's no list.
	I'm not sure if there's an actual list.
	The file's on my desk.
	I'm going to look it over.
	And now we, after Bindergate, we're here.
	What do you make of the attempt to watch her to backtrack what she said on that Fox News interview?
	I think that less said best said in these circumstances.
	And that might have been a critical error because when you're choosing the wrong words or you're saying the wrong things, people really care about it.
	Like, this is a case.
	This is a case that people are going to study and they have studied it.
	And there are true and proper experts on it.
	And it is very much on the level of the JFK assassination, where people know that they have been lied to by the federal government.
	They know there is a grander conspiracy and they have covered the minute details.
	And so when you are misusing words or when you're lying or when you don't actually have the files or the client list, it's going to really insult people.
	And so I go back to my original point, which is that I think that they didn't realize what a grenade that had been dropped in their lap.
	They didn't realize the pin had been pulled.
	I think they were not properly locked into how much the American public cared about this.
	And there's a good and decent reason why, Viva, the reason why they care so much is because we don't want to pay taxes to a pederist network, globalist cabal.
	That's like a pretty obvious and noble reason that everybody cares.
	And we would like to know that that's not the case.
	But unfortunately, the more that you cover it up, the more people start to think that's the case.
	Benny, you don't need an introduction, but I'm going to give you, I'm going to refer everyone to your Twitter feed.
	First of all, thank you for coming on.
	It was short notice.
	And I think I'm coming back on with you tomorrow morning, right?
	All right, great.
	It's Benny, it's amazing.
	I don't know what can be done right now to sort of resolve this.
	I think trying to pretend that it's a very vocal minority conspiracy theorist bunch who are only interested in this is the, it's the most backhanded insult or back.
	It's the most, it's the biggest insult to Bongino and Patel who have been vocal about this for years.
	So now to write off everybody as conspiracy theorists, it's, it's, it's, it's shooting yourself in the foot yet again, or the other foot, I should say.
	I just don't know how they, I'm waiting for a good explanation and trust is not the good explanation.
	Trust is just the process that gets you through, or at least the underpinning that you don't, you don't take a big black pill.
	Benny.
	Yes.
	I'll, I'll see you tomorrow morning at 11 o'clock.
	Viva.
	Godspeed, man.
	Thank you very much.
	Have a good one.
	All right.
	All right.
	Bye-bye.
	Now the question I did have, and Benny put the thought in my head as he was talking is, do we know when that memo was uploaded to the DOJ website in the first place?
	By the way, we're going to get ready to go on over to, okay.
	So the memo was uploaded July 7th, 2025.
	Which was, today is the 9th, yesterday was the 8th, Monday was...
	was the 7th is that right that means that that memo was updated actually after the leak to axios because the axios published their article on the 6th if i'm not mistaken that's very interesting all right everybody by the way get ready to get on over to vivabarnslaw.locals.com because we're going to take the party over there but i've got a bunch of humble rants to read be sure to check out benny johnson tomorrow this was a this was a first of all this was a great show i'm glad benny was able to make it on that was that was good he's he's he's uh he's he's good oh there was there was one thing i wanted
	get to beforehand let me just go up here let's go up here it was all in caps and i want to address a point if we are going to rely on faith someone
	said trust dan trust trump he took a bullet for us and uh it would let me bring it up so that here we go trust dan trust trump he took a bullet to the face for us uh i i trust dan despite the fact that people are still giving me a hard time for that and i trust trump now but let's just say trust is not going to get you through the times when they're doing things which are incomprehensible and deserve criticism you can trust trump all you want it doesn't mean that you don't criticize um the
	outcome of operation warp speed to the extent it was morphed into what it would it doesn't mean don't criticize but let me flip this trust around on you the trust might require me trusting them to listen to the feedback of the people who have been their biggest, most vocal supporters from the beginning.
	So I trust them to listen to what the people are saying.
	saying i if it's all part of the plan part of the plan is them doing what they're doing and me complaining about it if we want to get into sort of the not the cosmic um A quasi-religious, like, all right, trust the plan.
	The plan involves me bitching and moaning and complaining and saying this makes no bloody sense.
	That's part of the plan, too.
	So, the plan doesn't mean Viva shuts his mouth after five years of vocal analysis and insights.
	And that being said, you cannot forget about the fact that some of the mistakes that Trump made in his first term were relying on bad advice and an administration, a deep state, that sabotaged his presidency to the point where I don't think that they've pressed any charges against Comey yet, but I think they're recommending criminal charges.
	That's the same FBI DOJ administration.
	I'm not going to trust the fruits of that poison administration ever.
	And to be told by the current administration, yeah, we're investigating their criminality.
	Yes, it was a corrupt, weaponized criminal organization.
	And yes, the file that they gave to us from Epstein reveals nothing.
	Move along.
	Those are incompatible premises and incompatible conclusions.
	Hold on.
	I didn't want to bring this.
	Let me say that.
	I don't want anyone to think I'm no violence, period, full stop.
	Nobody needs to be told that.
	Nobody in their right mind needs to be told that.
	And nobody out of their right mind is going to listen.
	R. Sargent says, okay, so what happens when Tweaker Tom decides that he doesn't like the non-police officers moving him out of his homeless camp and starts attacking them with a knife?
	Yeah, I can agree with that concern.
	That's going back to Reverend Tim, which was a fantastic, insightful interview as well.
	Let me bring these all up like this.
	I can do it.
	Bondi is in over her head.
	She was a mediocre Florida attorney general with a mouth for media hit pieces.
	She always recited the needed bumper sticker, talking points.
	Give, send, go, Kimmy Hunt.
	Kimmy Hunt is undergoing cancer treatment right now, and she has a give, send, go right there that you can choose to support her.
	She's a member of our community.
	I know her.
	I've contributed to the campaign as well.
	I am wondering if Bonte is in over her head or if she's a bad faith actor in this.
	I don't know.
	If this were a Jean Le Carré novel, there's either some reason why the administration has to take the immediate PR hit, whatever, in order to tell this story and they're going to make up for it later on and everyone's going to say, I can't believe I was so hard on you or now I understand what you did.
	All right, I'm not there.
	Or she's in over her head, totally incompetent, bungling cases before the Supreme Court, bungling the layout of this, talking about things that she doesn't understand or talking about things that she does understand, but not realizing that she shouldn't be making those public statements.
	Or she's a bad faith actor that might actually be part of a deep state military-industrial complex attempt to take down Trump, humiliate his FBI, discredit the administration, and or blackmail the administration into other foreign conflicts, like more weapons for Ukraine, hypothetically.
	Ghost Chant says the coroner pronounced Epstein dead at 6.39 a.m.
	And the video clearly goes beyond that.
	So how could he be declared him dead if he's not in a cell?
	Also, Alexis Wilkins is Cash's girlfriend.
	The Cash's girlfriend being Israel until I put zero, and this is not to hide or come.
	Dude, if you're going to go with who's dating who and who they're connected to, you think Cash, because of his girlfriend, is now going to throw the administration under the bus?
	Give me a break.
	They don't need to do it that way.
	And yeah.
	Okay.
	R. Sargent says, all bet Epstein was 100% ours.
	And all bet Epstein was 100% ours and his island was our honeypot operation.
	And the reason we can't release it is because nations and leaders around the planet will turn against America.
	That is a very reasonable, plausible analysis.
	That's the majority of the left.
	They're not being held accountable.
	That's why they have the balls to firebomb police.
	They don't think anything will happen to you because nothing has yet.
	Like those firebombing attorneys out of New York, slap on the wrist.
	Nick Extreme says, what does Reverend Christopher think of Maj Touré and Black Guns Matter?
	I know that I suspect he would agree with it because he does believe that every, this was from a previous podcast of his, every black woman should own a gun, know how to use it, take a firearms training course, and carry.
	I know that he believes that as a matter of fact.
	I'm not familiar enough with Maj Touré, however, for any more insightful comment than that.
	King of Bill Tong says, savor our premium Angus and Wagyu Biltong.
	High protein.
	Carnivore and keto-friendly.
	No additives.
	Free shipping over $54.95.
	And we got, okay, so now what happens with the trigger time?
	And supporting this says data 12.
	Now, did I forget anything else?
	I don't think I forgot anything else.
	Let me go see what's going on.
	Checking.
	Okay, we got that.
	And let me see if there's any notifications here.
	We got that.
	Okay, we did good, people.
	We did everything.
	I'm going to get into the story about the investigation into the two of them.
	Let me see here.
	Deep state payback.
	Trump comments on criminal investigations into Brennan.
	Okay, so there's been no charges yet.
	We'll see where this goes.
	Criminal investigation.
	What the heck am I listening to?
	Louise.
	Something started.
	A video started playing in the backdrop and I had no idea what the hell was going on.
	Okay, let's go over to VivabarnesLaw.locals.com for the tip questions.
	This man is precious.
	I want people, says Buffalo Betsy.
	Reverend Tim is amazing, and I'm glad it finally happened.
	Okay, let's see who we go raid.
	And for those who don't know what raid means, it means push the current viewing audience on Rumble into the next on-air program.
	I hear it.
	Candace Owens is on the front page, and I know that our audience isn't, let's say, Candace Owens friendly.
	So I have two other options for you.
	No, no, let's do it.
	Let's do it.
	Let's do it.
	Do it.
	They got it here the other side now.
	She's on with Tucker Carlson.
	Is that?
	Yeah, dude.
	Oh, no, she's playing a Tucker Carlson clip.
	Go listen to Candace.
	See what she has to say.
	There might be some overlap here.
	We'll do Candace.
	We'll raid Candace.
	Be sure to let them know from where you came so that you could hear the responses in her chat.
	Oh, great.
	The Zionists are coming.
	I say that as a joke because I get called simultaneously a Nazi, a Zionist, Mossad, Canadian.
	And I appreciate people have their issues with Candace Owens, but go hear the other side, even if it upsets you to listen to.
	And they should also have to hear the voices of a different crowd, even if it upsets them.
	And we're going to go over to VivabarnesLaw.locals.com for the after party.
	I'm going to be on with Dr. Drew at six o'clock tonight.
	And what else?
	That's it.
	Here's the link to locals, people.
	Come on over.
	Tomorrow is Thursday.
	Benny Johnson in the morning.
	My show in the afternoon.
	I don't know if I have anybody coming on, but it's going to be one help of a banker show like this one.
	And have we breathed the canvas?
	Let's go.
	we've rated Candice.
	Oh, yes.
	Viva Fry has rated the stream.
	Oy vey.
	You got to see it.
	This is hilarious.
	Hold on.
	I take no offense to any of this, and maybe that's why some people call me self-paid.
	Hold on a second.
	I was just thinking.
	Okay, let's just see the chat here.
	Fuck Viva and the stupid list.
	Do I have a list?
	I don't have a list.
	Fuck Viva and the stupid list.
	Noticing people into submitting quotes.
	Viva Riggin the rigged on Viva It's my list.
	I know my list does get better and worse depending on the day, but go rigged.
	And if not, there's other places to watch on Rumble.
	But most importantly, you should come and watch Viva Barnes Law.
	Locals.com for the afterparty bubs.
	Let's do it.
	We're ending.
	People, Godspeed.

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