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July 10, 2024 - Viva & Barnes
01:45:49
Alec Baldwin Trial LIVE with Commentary
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Time Text
But that was the argument, Ziva.
That was the argument.
The argument the defense was making was, we want to look as real as possible, use fake guns, hire these people to make sure the guns are fake, hire their armor to make sure everything is good.
And at the end of the day, those people failed us because they hand an actor gun and say, go act.
They don't say check the gun, they say go act.
And he would have acted and somebody died.
I was just going to say, in terms of the alternative, not having movies, but rather just having them with a little fake gun.
But they're going to have a big problem, the closing arguments.
The opening statement of Baldwin's attorney, some of Alec Baldwin's own out-of-court statements that he made in the interviews contradict the argument that they're raising.
He's setting himself up for a massive blowback when the prosecution goes to pull up Alec Baldwin's He did make one point about pulling the trigger.
He essentially said it didn't matter.
He's like, if he pulled the trigger, if he didn't, don't forget, this was supposed to, and that was the thing that Danny took exception in when he started saying, what's a cold gun?
And cold guns never hurt anybody.
And then Danny said, the crow, the crow, the crow.
And I was like, oh, yeah, that's true.
I was thinking about that, too.
So I think he tried to hedge his bet on that by saying, even if he did pull the trigger, what does it matter?
Because we're going to hear a lot of evidence about him pulling that trigger.
And also, I could think I could hear Grobert screaming across the continent.
A cold gun means a gun that...
He said something beyond it not having live rounds in it, that it couldn't possibly hurt anybody unless it fell on their foot.
A cold gun is still a real gun, but either not loaded, and I don't think he's right about it only being loaded with dummy rounds.
The idea that a real gun should be regarded as something that could never ever hurt somebody is a stupid argument to make in the first place, even if they call it cold.
Well, they're trying to make the argument of foreseeability, right?
And I do understand that.
I think it's one of the strongest arguments that they have, and maybe, you know, the one that they should be leaning on the hardest.
It's just that the whole problem is that it's always foreseeable that there can be a mix-up.
And so with the magnitude of harm that can result from mishandling something like a gun, that is why you have the safety rule of you assume that every gun is loaded, even if you don't think it is because you don't remember.
We're putting the bullet in or whatever.
Things can happen that you just aren't aware of.
And so it's just running contrary to that basic...
Safety premise that I think the state is going to hammer on and probably quite effectively because that is reflected in the SAG guidelines.
You must treat it like it's loaded.
Especially in the context of the knowledge that he had.
This is why I say his position as an executive, as a producer, is relevant.
Because his normal operating procedure should not have been the yardstick that he was employing that day, given his state of mind that he had knowledge that guns had gone off in the...
In the prior few days.
And that's why he's saying, well, this is how you always operate.
Really? Is that how you always operate when you know that people are firing off guns without realizing it?
On this set?
Is that normal?
I mean, is it normal that you hear about that when you're doing this, the movie The Departed?
Did you have complaints about that, that you're following the same guidelines in this situation where it's an independent film?
There's a lot less, perhaps, professionalism, a lot less...
Experience from the people who are involved here and you know there's been problems, I'm sorry.
I don't think that that yardstick is a fair yardstick to hold him to.
His lawyer did say that Baldwin that morning was going around doing test scenes and firing the gun.
He means blanks, right?
When he's saying cold gun, I think he's saying there are no blanks in it.
No blanks.
Cold gun means nothing's in there.
I understood him saying that...
Sorry, it was during the...
Not security, but the training, the safety training.
And he said Baldwin was asking to be video recorded and was shooting the gun.
It was ambiguous when he said that as to whether or not he was shooting the gun with blank gummy rounds or with plinking reel rounds as he's learning to use it.
I tell you, if it turns out that Baldwin at any point, and the evidence comes in that he had fired a live round on that set, his goose is cooked, and I think it's already cooked.
I think we know he did.
Didn't we?
I don't know, because that lawyer says it, but then says he had no reason to believe there'd be live rounds on the set.
They should never be there.
But if it turns out Baldwin was firing them, he's screwed.
Yes, because that was the whole catalyst to the whole defense.
On the set, and so everybody understands, it's on this movie set, there were supposed to be no live rounds at all, period.
So the fact that there was a live round is the problem.
Day one, day 30, it was never supposed to be a live round on the set.
Now how the live rounds got there, that's the whole issue.
So Baldwin's defense essentially is, I'm on the set with a real gun, but there's never supposed to be a live round, and just to make sure we have armor checking, AD checking, they give me the gun and say cold, so there's no blanks, no nothing, it's got nothing, and I do my thing.
So I think if you put it in that context, it's just hard for me to say.
How could you foresee something like this to happen?
Or how could Alec have foreseen something like this to happen under these conditions?
Because that's what the argument is, under the conditions that he was in.
I think the foreseeability goes directly to his role in hiring and firing.
How much did he know was going on on set beforehand when he got on set?
Because he knew that there were misfires going on.
That's something that the crew explicitly told him.
And I think that's part of the problem.
And this is why I don't like dumping the whole process.
Now, I understand why they did it.
For anybody who didn't watch the pretrial, go watch all of our streams on the pretrial motions.
But they discuss it pretty clearly there.
If we get into what he actually was in charge of and what he wasn't, it will devolve into an entirely separate trial.
Because it's not explicitly outlined in his contract.
But what we do know is that he was aware that there was a heightened risk.
As compared to his other productions he was on when he showed up on set that day.
Well, it's funny, though.
Where the safety training occurred, if it turns out that there were live rounds, then he might argue that the live rounds weren't on set and that he had a safety training somewhere else off set so that he had no reason to believe there would be live rounds on the set.
My only bottom line is listening to that opening statement.
If it turns out that Baldwin had ever fired one live round in the context of that movie, on or off the set, if he went to a range, then the opening statements become demonstrably false and outright misleading.
And I'd expect them to hammer that.
But if he fired a live round at any point, he's really, really in big trouble, especially from what they tried to make by way of opening statement.
Yeah, I think this is going to...
Because this really is a single-issue case.
It's about foreseeability.
Would a reasonable person in his position be able to foresee that he should have checked that gun?
And I think you have a hell of an argument to say both yes and I think you have a hell of an argument to say no.
I would flip that around a little bit and say not whether he had the foreseeability to check the rounds.
That might be a bit of a higher burden in terms of what his obligations were.
Forseeability not to point a real gun at a person, period.
And pull the trigger.
And he said he knew not to do it.
So live rounds or not, because I don't think it should be his responsibility to go check each and every live round.
I'm sort of persuaded by that aspect of the argument.
But you don't point the gun at a person.
He knew that you don't do it.
He said you'd never do it.
He said he would never do it.
No, no, no, no, no.
And then he did it.
And that's why you don't do it, because you don't know what's in the gun.
So if I'm the prosecution, I shift the argument a little bit.
Asking him to check each one of the rounds is a little bit more onerous and less reasonable than saying you don't point it at a person because you don't know what's in the rounds.
I think the challenge here is that what is going to be safe and foreseeable under the circumstances depends very much on what everybody is expecting the circumstances to be.
If your script is calling for one set of action that isn't going to require the gun to be pointed at a person, then your safety standards can be somewhat more relaxed compared to if you are going to have to actually be pointing the gun at a person.
And then that again, compared to if you were going to be pointing the gun at a person and cocking the hammer.
And then again, if you're going to be pointing at a person cocking the hammer and pulling Because each one of these separate facts increases the risk to everybody else that's on that set as the result of this action.
So to me, I think a very critical point is going to come down to what was he actually supposed to be doing with the gun in that situation?
Because you can't pass the blame onto the safety people if you were acting in...
What did you guys think of the...
He was a Wild West, you know, Wild West Sheriff at that moment.
And he was doing, you know, where they're trying to put him in the mind of the actor.
What were your thoughts on that?
I like the...
I like the part because I...
They're trying to say, and at that role, he's playing a role.
So he's pointing a gun and he's doing everything.
And that's dangerous in a real world example.
What he was doing would be dangerous.
But in this example, because he was playing in this role and everything was supposed to be, it wasn't dangerous.
So I did like the analogy, but I think the failing part of it is that he tried to make Alec Baldwin, he tried to make him too much into the victim instead of saying this was an accident.
And I think that's the part I had the issue with, right?
He's not a victim.
This was an accident, but then it was an accident.
No, don't you make him seem like a victim.
Who is thoroughly unimpressed with the way he pulled out the gun?
I think I can do it better.
When it happens, what the hell is that?
I don't know if you guys watch.
If you guys watch a guy named Daniel Thrasher on YouTube.
All your first witness.
And he's got some fun stuff.
That's how he pulls out a gun.
Nicholas Lafleur.
Nicholas Lafleur, the flower in French.
Sir, please raise your right hand.
Golly. No, I'm going to try to shut up a card for me, but I'm going to try to shut up.
It will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
All right, have a seat talking to the microphone.
He'll tell us.
Sure. I'm sorry?
Based on the pin on his tie, he looks like law enforcement.
Do you have volume louder?
Yeah, sure.
They indicated that they'd be calling the case agents early in the case.
So given that, I did not continue my objection I had earlier to her being present.
Thank you.
Case agents allow in.
Is that loud enough?
Louder. State your name and spell your last name for the court record, please.
My last name is L-E-F-L-E-U-R.
And how are you currently employed?
The City of Santa Fe Police Department.
And what do you do there?
Police officer.
How long have you been employed at the City of Santa Fe?
Can everyone hear?
No. Okay.
And prior to working for the Santa Fe Police Department, did you work anywhere else?
Yes, ma'am.
Where did you work?
The Santa Fe County Sheriff's Department.
And how long did you work at the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Department?
About two years.
And were you on duty?
On October 21st of 2021?
Yes. Did you receive a dispatch call?
Yes. Can you tell us what you received and what you did?
A call came in that there was someone shot at a movie set.
Unclear who shot, how many were shot.
I happened to be the closest person to the call and arrived on scene first.
So when you arrived on scene, when you say first, were there other law enforcement officers there?
No, not at the time when I got there.
Were there any other first responders present?
There were some fire personnel and what they called a scene medic for the movie set, I guess.
You said a scene medic?
Yeah. Okay.
So, let me ask you, when you receive a call for a shooting, what's your primary concern?
Priority life.
And what do you mean when you say priority life?
needs help gets help and that the threat is stopped.
When you arrived on the scene, and where was it?
Bonanza Creek movie set, I guess.
It's quite a ways off the interstate.
Okay. And what county and state is that in?
Santa Fe County, state of New Mexico.
Okay. So when you arrived there, give us an idea of what you saw.
What was going on?
It was a big old cowboy western themed city or town.
A bunch of people running everywhere.
A bunch of cars.
A bunch of people pointing.
When I got there, people were pointing towards a church.
And I got out and attempted to grab my medical bag and went in and saw.
Hang on, I'm going to stop you there.
Approximately how many people were there on scene?
I don't have the direct number, but there's more than 100 people.
Have you ever been called to a shooting where there were 100 people already on scene?
No. Did that present any specific challenges for you?
Yes. Explain to us what those challenges were.
There's a lot of moving parts.
Just got to take it one piece at a time.
See who's hurt.
Make sure that, one, that nobody's continually getting hurt.
And then, two, the person who was hurt.
Medical attention is being given to them.
And then go from there.
Okay. And when you arrived on...
Seen that day, were you running your body-worn camera?
Yes. The state moves for the admission of States Exhibit 4. No further objections, right?
Are they going to show us some body cam footage here?
I want to just make sure I'm connected.
I'm ready to play it.
He seems so shy, this go-around.
I feel like he was a little more assertive last time.
Yes, Your Honor.
consented to both lapel videos today.
So you think published, this is a state's one?
Lafleur. How do I get the monitors to come on?
Okay. Do you know how to do it?
Go ahead.
All right.
This one's not.
but it's green light.
Now people are getting a real flavor for what the practice of law is.
What do you want?
Technical glitches.
He's got to get the adapter.
Go get the adapter.
Okay.
Officer LeFleur, do you want to turn around and just look at the monitor on the wall behind you?
It doesn't matter, man.
Okay, let's do that.
You got your, you got your toddler kit?
Yeah, I'm trying to get it out.
Stupid nut truck.
Are we inside with the mediums?
Tell us what's going on in the video right now.
I'm looking for my other medic bag.
I handed the individual a trauma pack for shooting, and I'm attempting to open one of the storage boxes in the back of the truck.
Who was the individual that you handed something to?
I believe it was a fire.
Fire personnel that I followed in, a volunteer firefighter maybe.
And I thought I heard the word, is it BVM?
It's for CPR.
It's a bag valve mask.
Bag valve mask.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I got a sterile glove and a packing, to be honest.
Okay. Right here.
Over there?
Over there?
Yep. My hand is on it.
You talking?
We're going to get you up.
She shot her?
She came in here and went across her chest.
Okay. You want an air flight?
Yeah, we all went in route.
Okay. And what What are you talking about there when you say air flight?
Helicopter. Helicopter that's designed to transport people that need advanced treatment faster than ambulance.
It's a helicopter that air paramedics basically.
Did you call for the helicopter or did someone else do that?
Do you know?
That individual said that they had already called one, but I called one for his own as well.
You called also?
Yes, ma'am.
And why did you feel that it was necessary to have a helicopter arrive?
Someone who was shot across the chest.
We're quite a ways out for an ambulance in reference to where the hospital is.
And when you say you were quite a ways out, how far away is Bonanza Creek?
From a hospital.
Running lights and sirens.
I don't know, 15, 20 minutes or more.
Okay. I heard you there saying male shot in the stomach.
Is that what you said?
I'm not sure.
Well, as you sit here today, do you recall where the other person was shot?
Somewhere in the chest.
Okay. Or shoulder area.
Thank you.
In your video, sir, can you identify who the set medic is?
It's a little blurry, but I believe it's this lady right.
Let's bend over with her blondish brown hair.
Is the monitor working now?
Yeah. This monitor is working now.
Do you know how to touch it?
There you go.
Thank you.
I appreciate you.
You can go ahead and remove that.
Show them how to remove it.
Push them and then you go.
Okay. If it's in the way, just push.
Do you know who these other people are that are in the room?
No, I know that that person, that person and somebody over here, the battalion chief, they were wearing Santa Fe medic.
County Fire Medic shirts, and they came in in the vehicle in front of me.
You don't know who the other people are that are in the room?
I know the other person shot, and then Elena Hutchins, and then the other assistance director, and that's about it.
Okay. And you mentioned that there was a truck pulling in ahead of you.
It was a volunteer firefighter truck.
So did the first responders that we see here in this scene, did they arrive about the same time you did?
Yes. Would
he need me?
You want a BBM?
He's good.
This is Alice.
Repeat your information.
Yeah, she'll be there.
All right.
Thank you.
Officer LaFleur, tell us what you're doing now and why.
Looked over and seen that they were getting the oxygen tank out.
Noticed that they were using on a bag valve mask, which was more appropriate for that situation than the one that goes around their face.
I'm just helping them.
Doing as much as I can to help.
So give us a little bit more information.
What causes you to believe that the bag valve mask is more appropriate than the one that goes around your face?
And when you say the one that goes around your face, what do you mean?
If the oxygen were to run out or they had to use manual breaths, they could use the bag.
The other one is just something that's over their face.
Okay. And what made you think that the bag valve mask was more appropriate?
What are they trying to get at with this exactly?
Nothing really.
I believe it's more...
I don't know.
Officer LaFleur, are you trained in life-saving measures?
To an extent, yes.
Okay. Was it anything about your training that caused you to think that that would be more appropriate?
It's just what we've been trained with versus the one that was already on her.
Okay. Is anybody allowed to go with her in the helicopter?
No. Helena, deep breath.
Deep breath, Helena.
There you go.
Deep breath.
Deep breath, Helena.
Deep breath.
There you go.
Good girl.
Deep breath.
Jesus. Okay.
Do you guys pack it?
No. What do you guys need?
I just need another dog tag.
Dog tag?
Something for pressure.
I think a big one.
This one?
This one?
No, no.
This one?
Yeah. You got a stretcher?
Uh, not me here, no.
Okay. Let me help him get the stretcher.
Stretcher. Hey, hey.
What are you doing now?
Just trying to stay busy and help clear the way for the stretcher.
ambulance is here.
Thank you.
Okay, we're gonna move.
So I got the air.
Thank you.
Get all that up.
I'm not behind you guys.
We're going to need to get the going.
Bye. Thank you.
Officer LeFleur, have additional first responders now arrived?
Yes. Can you give us an idea of who's on set assisting now?
So it looks like more paramedics have arrived and Lieutenant Benavidez is right there.
Okay. And do you mean this gentleman here?
Yes, ma'am.
And who was Lieutenant Benavides?
He was our day shift lieutenant at the time.
Was he a supervisor?
Yes, ma'am.
We got it through and through on her.
We went through and through on her, through the chest, and then you got one in the arm over there.
We went through and we went through and we went through and we went through and we went through Everybody stops what they're doing right now.
This is a privacy.
Okay? Whose voice is that that we're hearing?
Luciano Bervides.
Okay, going back.
Okay. Okay.
Okay.
All right, we got some stairs, guys.
What is your understanding about where Ms. Hutchins is being taken now?
Into the back of the ambulance.
And can you explain why is she going into the back of an ambulance rather than the helicopter?
The helicopter hasn't arrived yet.
My understanding is that they have additional medicines and equipment and measures they can take inside of an ambulance.
All right.
Thank you.
Disconnect the air.
You got it?
Hey, can you take over that?
You guys want to see Vincent?
No, CTA on the bird.
I'm 30, Tucson.
Hey, what's CTA on the bird?
What did you just say?
I asked the ETA and the helicopter.
And who are you speaking to?
The Santa Fe dispatch.
Do you recall how they responded?
It's been a minute since I watched this video, so...
or We got the bird right here.
the helicopter now arriving.
Yes, ma'am.
Thank you.
What are you doing now?
It appears I'm grabbing crime scene tape.
Why are you grabbing crime scene tape?
I don't know.
It's a crime scene.
To start the crime scene?
I don't know if anybody had told me to grab the tape yet, but I knew we needed to start one.
You felt that you needed to put up crime scene tape?
Yes, ma'am.
Or somebody may have asked for it.
What's that?
I'm sorry.
Or somebody may have asked me for it, and I'm just not too sure.
Okay. And what's crime scene tape used for?
Mark the perimeter, or the inner perimeter of essentially a crime scene in which they want to tape off and only allow certain people in and out.
Okay. And was that an issue in this scene?
The crime scene?
Well, cordoning off the crime scene, was that an issue here?
Yeah, it was a unique situation because you can't really tie crime scene tape to nothing.
So I think at one point they actually used our patrol units to tie the tape around and go to the next one.
And why is it important to cordon that off?
Just for evidential purposes.
Allow only certain people in and out because at this point we didn't know what was going on.
And were there people in that area that were not first responders?
Yes. Approximately how many of you recall?
I don't know.
I couldn't give you a number really.
There was just a lot of people on the outside.
That I hadn't seen originally inside the church.
Okay, and did you know who those people were?
No. Do
you see this person here in the gray shirt?
Yes ma'am.
Was that a first responder?
No. So when the crime scene tape goes up, what happens to that person?
I can't recall.
I haven't watched the video yet.
Hypothetically, is that person allowed to stay inside the crime scene?
No. Okay.
Who are the people that are allowed to stay inside the tape?
Medical and for first responders.
Okay. And I have live ordinance on the ceiling up there.
It's safe.
Okay. But it is right above here.
Okay. Right there.
That's... Okay.
Okay. Where's the bird?
It's right here.
OK. OK. OK. What are you doing now?
I talked with the paramedics inside the ambulance, and they asked me where the helicopter was.
I told them I was landing, and he asked them to bring the paramedics to them.
So you're bringing the paramedic from the helicopter to the ambulance?
Yes. Possibly 23-year-old female in the back of the ambulance right now.
Gunshot underneath the right arm.
Went through all the way to the back left.
Can you carry this back for you, sir?
I got it.
you got it
This was priority.
Here, grab the I.L.
7. Can you open your eyes for me?
Watch it.
Yep, there.
I'll see you on the I.L.
7. That's it.
Watch it.
My target is to have you guys step over there for us, okay?
Can I have you guys get over there for us?
We're going to have to gather everybody up, get everybody's names, everybody who's on scene, okay?
I think it's great.
Yep. Yep.
What are you doing now?
Just trying to think what's next.
I think I'm putting one of the pilot's headgear inside the ambulance on the other side of the door.
Just to start to gather people up because they're just standing around the church where the said incident happened.
Why didn't you do that when you initially got there?
Went in and made sure that people were receiving medical treatment.
And then, so they go with the flow, see what it can do next?
Are you trained to take action to save lives before moving witnesses around?
Yes ma'am.
I believe you guys will be taking this one.
No, not yet.
They're in IVs, get an IO, and then they're going to take in the bird.
They're coming out, watch yourself.
They're moving it from this one.
Yeah. And whose jacket is that?
Joel. Joel?
Okay. Okay.
Okay, well, we're going to just keep it here.
Officer LaFleur, this woman who is speaking right now, she's not a police officer, right?
No. Was she employed with the fire department?
No, she was there.
Set medic, I'm guessing.
When you say set medic, do you mean she's the medic on the movie set?
Yes, ma'am.
Yeah, he was wearing it.
Where's his phone at?
I don't know.
Do you have any idea why movie sets would have medical personnel on scene?
Probably for safety reasons.
Someone closer than the paramedics of fire department.
For safety reasons?
Yeah. All right, gentlemen.
I just need your IDs and then have you guys step outside and wait for the investigators to get here.
Okay? Cool.
Any idea who these guys are?
Just more people involved with the movie set.
Movie set employees?
Is that your impression?
Yes, ma'am.
And who's the props guy?
She has green and purple hair.
You can't miss her.
Okay. I was here when it happened.
You were here when it happened?
Who else was here when it happened?
The camera operator.
How many people do you think were in here when it happened?
Three, maybe four.
Four? Maybe.
So two more other than you two?
Reed, as soon as I see him.
He was camera operator.
Reed, yes sir.
Reed Russell was here.
Alec Baldwin.
Alec Baldwin was the actor on set that pulled the trigger.
Alec Baldwin?
Yes sir, how about you there?
Where's he at?
He's got one.
This was the culmination of all that testimony.
I think the objective is he's a prop to enable them to show the video.
They need to have the witness on the stand.
Yeah. She's just wanting us to cry.
That's it.
That's the only reason this is being...
Well, they're showing us what happened before they argue about why.
Right. It's a foundation.
Well, I know your name, so it's...
Pursuant to the stipulation, I'm going to go ahead and jump ahead.
We're not going to hear from Alec himself?
Why? Why would they stipulate that?
Maybe they're stipulating to later?
Not now?
That doesn't sound like a stipulation.
Let me give up our lieutenant and see where we want you to hang out, okay?
Whatever you want to do.
Yes, sir.
All right.
Give me just a second.
Maybe it's personal information about contact information he was giving in.
I don't know.
This is just so prejudicial.
Not given the appropriate reaction.
Oh, they did want it in.
You want me to jump in five seconds now?
Sure.
Who can explain what...
They're trying to skip a portion of the video?
Yeah. They had stipulated to exclude a bit.
Yeah, essentially like redactions, it seems like.
If redacting his contact information, that makes sense.
But anything else he's saying there, I don't know why...
I don't know how they both agree to it.
Either he's saying something good for Alec or bad for Alec.
But it's unlikely it's neutral.
Why would you keep...
I don't want to pull the trigger.
You want me to have him sit tighter?
Yeah, you're going to have to sit tight.
Sit tight in the unit?
I have the armor in here.
This is all their stuff.
I have the gun used is in there.
And I got the two people that were in the room.
Okay. You want me to have Alec Baldwin take a seat in the back of my unit?
No, we know where he's at.
We know where he is.
Yeah. We just need to say, is he in a trailer?
No, he's right here.
In the gray and black.
Okay. All right.
So, try to keep him away from everybody.
Okay. I'm going to talk to anybody.
Okay. I can sit with him in my unit.
That's fine.
Okay. Okay.
Officer LaFleur, at this point in time, what's your intention?
I was going to go back to where Mr. Baldwin was and then escort him to my unit.
When I got there, I realized my unit is over here being used as a post for the crime scene.
So what did you do when you realized that?
Just had him sit where he was and everybody just hang out there.
Started writing out people's names.
Okay. What are these people doing?
Seems like they're talking about what happened.
Now, as a law enforcement officer, is that something that concerns you?
Yes. And why?
Why does that concern you?
They could be...
One person could be telling them what they saw and mess up what they have to say what they saw.
So it could essentially coerce testimony, I guess.
People would say the same thing because the other person said it rather than saying their own opinion or own view of what they saw.
Mr. Baldwin, who's the director on the scene?
The guy that was shot.
The guy that was shot?
Okay. Do you guys have a production car?
There's an AD.
I'm happy to stay right here and do everything.
Well, Lieutenant, I just want you to stay away from everybody and not to talk to nobody.
We can wait right here and have everybody step back or we can wait and I'm back on patrol you, but I prefer that I put you there, okay?
You want water or something now?
I want to find props and get a cigarette.
So, why did you let Mr. Baldwin sit there instead of putting him in some vehicle and separating him from the other witnesses?
Like I said, my unit was clear across being used as a post.
And just because I didn't know what we had right there, came to maintain cooperation with people involved.
Well, it sounds like you gave him an option.
You let him choose.
Is that right?
Yeah, he wanted to stay right there and figured if I could keep him there.
I didn't see a big problem with it until later on when people were talking and whatnot.
And did you give Mr. Baldwin instructions about whether or not he could speak to people?
I did tell him to stop talking.
Did you give instructions to the other witnesses that were around?
I didn't tell them, but I told them I needed to sit there and not talk to nobody.
Okay. Yes, sir. I'm right there.
This silver car is Alex's vehicle.
You want to put him in there?
Mr. Baldo, is that your car?
Yeah, we can wait in there.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
You want me to sit here?
We can wait in your car, if you want to.
I can't smoke in the car.
Oh, okay, okay.
Yeah, we can hang out right here then.
They're still gone?
They're both gone?
Yeah, well, they're still working on the female.
If you haven't seen the helicopter take off, then they're not gone yet.
If you know Officer LeFleur, why hadn't the helicopter taken off yet?
I don't know exactly why, but my guess is they have to stabilize the patient before they can put him in the air.
In the air.
why are you just standing there Just standing with Mr. Baldwin, allowing him to smoke a cigarette.
And why is it important for you to be standing there?
Essentially, he's detained, not free to leave.
So I'm there with him.
Okay. Okay.
Can someone refresh my memory as to when they knew Helena Hutchins had died?
I think she's still alive at this point.
I think she's alive when she gets to the hospital, isn't she?
But they have these two gentlemen standing over there that we can see.
Is there something important about them?
The guy in the gray was, I had him stand over there because he was inside the room when I had first got at the church.
And the other guy in the brown apparently was in the church too.
So I just wanted everybody who was in the church in one area so we could easily be found.
So you wanted everyone that was in the church in one area?
Yes, ma'am.
And are we looking at that area?
To the left of Baldwin is where the majority of everybody was, yes.
Okay. And those were the witnesses that were in the church?
From what I was told, yes.
Okay. So Mr.
Baldwin, how many people were in the room when it happened?
Mr. Baldwin, how many people were in the room at the time?
How's it going, sir?
Deputy LaFleur.
How many people were in the room at the time?
Six. Six?
And a seven.
Officer LaFleur, who's this gentleman who's speaking now in the blue jeans shirt?
From what I was told, he was one of the other directors.
Six or seven, I need a definite answer.
I don't know.
Okay. So I got one here, the two that were injured, that makes three, and then these two gentlemen, four or five.
So who would be the other two?
Yeah, it's got Ross.
More than six.
Do you know whether or not the person in the jean shirt Was inside the church and witnessed the incident?
I do not know.
Why don't you come over to the back of the screen?
Thank you.
Does it appear to you that Mr. Baldwin is speaking to the other witnesses?
I think he was talking about who would know who was in the room.
I can't really hear it.
And then apparently the guy's son was working there as well.
Is this an ideal way to separate someone from witnesses?
I have to look at it.
Probably not, but it's what happened.
Okay, understood.
You're right at the door.
Do you have an idea on you, sir?
As of right now, her status is questionable.
That's why we called the air light.
Where were you at, sir?
I was right behind him.
Right behind him?
Okay. Yeah, I was right behind him, right when that happened.
All right.
So just have you guys hang out for me right here.
We'll get someone to get your statement in just a second, okay?
And then we cleared the gun outside after his request, and I witnessed them clear and saw the bullets.
Okay. Officer LeFleur, does it seem to you right now that they're talking about the incident?
Seems like they're talking about the gun that was used in the incident.
Okay. Okay.
Officer, do you know what this conversation is about that we're watching right here?
Something about a shake test?
I don't know.
Maybe the rounds?
Dummy rounds, maybe?
Okay. I'm not too entirely sure.
Do you agree with me that, well, was Mr. Baldwin supposed to be talking about the incident?
No, ma'am.
Does he appear to be doing it anyway?
Yes, ma'am.
I'm worried about her.
Yeah, well, we as well.
Which is the truth.
Thank you.
Thank you.
She's stable now.
I think it's better than the end of the shoulder.
You hit her where both of them took it in the shoulder.
Hers came out the other shoulder, which is where it's not both.
It is the shoulder where it stopped.
So it shattered.
There's basically a lot of things in playing.
Because I think it was based on the sound of how much ringing I had.
I think it was a half.
Officer, are they still talking about the incident?
Yes, ma'am.
Is there a reason that you didn't stop them since you told them not to?
think...
As time goes on, I tell them to stop.
Okay. You were in the room?
Okay. Can you get your ID, sir?
You see this gentleman over here on the left?
Yes, ma'am.
Any reason to believe he was inside the room at the time?
I'm not sure at this point.
Okay. Were you in the room too ma'am?
Yes. As
soon as they were allowed to.
So they'll stabilize both.
And then once the sheriff says you're good to go, they'll let them go.
So basically they're trying to stabilize their vital signs enough for the flight.
And administer any kind of narcotics or anything they need, blood thinners as that may be.
Then they'll load her up in the helicopter and they'll fly to there.
I believe the other ambulance is on the other side.
And he seems to be doing better than she was, so they might drive him in an ambulance.
I heard him wave off the other car, so.
And where did the people go?
You went out to the dock and took him out?
Yeah, those are the ones that are going to be served.
I was up until I was sitting up and on in the foot of the camera.
You just went over?
Yeah, I was.
I ran out.
When you got to take back in the tubes and I was opening the house and I was asking you to do it all right.
Good to see you.
You and Emma is a trauma hospital.
St. Vincent's.
They're both trauma ones.
Thanks for the information.
I was curious.
Yes, ma'am.
around for my car.
yeah yeah no problem oh
oh Did Officer LeFleur have more first responders now arrived?
Off to your right, you can see more patrol units showing up.
This deputy showed up, but this corporal had been there for a minute.
And approximately how long have you now been on scene?
According to my body cam, a little over 25 minutes.
Okay. Hey, Corporal.
I got seven people there in the room when it happened, all their IDs, so...
Okay. Get it all brought back down.
I'm not sure what...
It's okay.
At that point in time, what was your understanding of how many people were in the room and witnessed it?
I believe I said seven.
Do you know whether or not that turned out to be true?
I think there was actually more.
I wrote all the people who said that they were in the room in my report.
Hey, sir.
And I'm just hanging out with him because he's the one who pulled the trigger.
Okay. Yeah, he thought it.
Sorry, I didn't.
I was trying to set things up a while ago.
I was trying to set things up a while ago.
I love how people are wearing face masks out in the middle of the New Mexico desert.
Well, COVID really loves deserts and the outdoors, don't you know?
They're administering first aid to Helene Hutchins.
All of them are wearing their face masks.
It complicates communication.
Do you have a notepad?
For safety.
I know he's no longer in the frame, but the gentleman in the blue denim shirt, do you know whether or not he was in the room at the time?
I don't recall if he was in the room or not.
I know there was some director or whatnot there.
Yeah, I know.
It came off when I was trying to pack a wound.
Yeah. Okay.
Officer LaFleur.
Does it look like Mr. Baldwin is speaking to a potential witness?
He looks like he's talking to the guy who says his name is one of the directors, yes.
Okay. Is that what you had in mind when you asked Mr. Baldwin not to speak to anyone?
No. Do you know what they're talking about?
I couldn't hear what they were talking about.
I did hear him asking what cigarettes he was smoking and if he could have one.
So. Thank you.
but for this alternative.
Oh, jeez.
Alright. No, because I'm rewriting quite a bit.
Everybody's in the room.
I mean, I'm on the phone on me.
It's alright.
I'll just, yeah, I'll leave it down.
I'll just, yeah.
Do you see the gentleman in the denim shirt gesturing?
Want me to back it up?
Yeah, which one?
Are we talking about this gentleman?
Yeah. Do you know what he's gesturing?
No, it looks like he picks up his hand.
Now that you...
Now that you play it back, it looks like he's shaking his hand.
And had you seen him do that previously?
No, not until just now.
I thought you testified earlier about a shake test.
The gentleman was talking about a shake test.
Okay. But I had not seen the director do it until reviewing the footage now.
Okay. My eyes aren't always exactly where the body cam is pointed.
Absolutely. Why is she impeaching her own witness?
Not to talk about the incident, do you have an expectation that they'll follow your instructions?
Yes, ma'am.
Does it look like they're following your instructions?
No, ma'am.
Officer, is there a reason why you didn't enforce some basic freaking boundaries?
Officer LaFleur, I'm going to stop the video there.
It's weird for the state to be attacking their own guy this way.
What else did you do on scene that day?
I helped.
Essentially just wait with other witnesses, I guess, or people that wanted to give a statement or they needed a statement from at a different location.
It was their base camp is what they called it.
So you needed to take statements from people that were at another location?
Is that what you said?
No, we took people from essentially where we had them and they took them down to their base camp.
And that's where they started interviews.
And the people that you take to Basecamp, are those the same people that we see here in the video?
I believe so.
those people and I don't know how many people they ended up interviewing.
At any point in time, did Mr. Baldwin tell you that he didn't pull the trigger of the gun?
I believe he told me he was holding the gun.
I believe in the beginning when I was leaving the church, one of the guys said that Baldwin had pulled the trigger.
So just off of what was told.
And I know that this sounds ridiculous, but we have to follow some.
Jurisdictional rules.
Do you see Mr. Baldwin in this frame here?
Yes, ma'am.
Would you point him out, please?
And do you see that same gentleman in the courtroom today?
Yes, ma'am.
Would you point him out?
That's not ridiculous.
That's pretty normal.
Glasses. Okay.
But does the jury know that's normal?
Anything else you did?
Why should I preface it that way?
She's weird.
You know this?
I think that's about it.
How long were you on the scene, if you recall?
From when I got there, it was, I don't know, about 10 hours maybe or so.
I was there until dark.
You were there for 10 hours?
Yeah, until they were done interviewing people.
Is that typical?
Is that typical?
She doesn't need to make faces of disgust when she's lambasting his bad work.
I understand getting in front of it, but you don't have to make these faces like, why did you do this?
The tone doesn't need to be there.
Your Honor, just for the record, we would ask that the record reflect that Officer LeFleur has identified the defendant.
LeFleur. Thank you.
I'll pass the witness.
I'll pass the witness.
I've never heard that term, but I've never done Terminal.
I've heard it before, but it's a little hot minute.
Alec Baldwin looks a lot like the lead singer from Blink-182.
I'm going to have to put a side-by-side here.
He looks like a rhino.
So you kind of suck as a cop, don't you?
you.
When you got to the scene, Mr. Baldwin walked up to you and said, I was holding a gun.
He blurted it out, right?
Yes. And, in fact, he was very shocked, very, if you could picture Alec Baldwin in a pale state, you know, very unsure of himself, you could say an actor out of character.
Fair? Sure.
Object to the formal question.
It is Mr. Spyro testifying in the question.
Okay. Maybe approach.
We're one question in and we're already approaching the bench.
We're off to a good start.
I didn't really...
I didn't like the tone of her questions on direct.
Her tone seemed unduly accused.
That's what I said.
I said the exact same thing.
Yeah. And if she's trying to, like, draw the sting, first of all, I don't think the defense would bring up those points.
And even if she was trying to do it, it felt very ham-fisted.
This was her in Hannah Gutierrez, too.
She's just got this attitude that she can't draw to save her life.
Baldwin, he looked very shocked.
If you could picture Mr. Baldwin in a pale state, you know, like, unsure of himself, you could say an actor out of character.
Is that a fair description?
Sure. And he said to you, I'm here, whatever you want to do, right?
Yes. He said to you at one point, where should I go, right?
Yes. And he also pointed out to you who the director was on scene who was hit in the shoulder, right?
I believe so.
He asked and inquired about him.
And he also asked you how she was doing, right?
Meeting Ms. Hutchins, right?
Yes. I don't remember you being asked about that indirect, were you?
And you being asked by that by the state?
Yeah. Objection.
Objection relevance?
Yep. So I want to take a step back.
The dispatch that came over to your radio, sir, before you got to the scene was a dispatch for an accidental shooting by a prop gun, correct?
I believe that's what was told to me, yes.
Okay. And you testified to that previously, right?
Yes. Okay, and the dispatch report, you know that you received that wording, accidental discharge, several times, right?
I believe so.
Okay, so I want to ask you, I want to ask you, how come when you described it today in court, how come you didn't include the word accident when you testified before this jury?
I'm not one to say if it was an accident or not.
Great answer.
Initially respond to it.
And then the detectives...
Good question, good answer.
Well, sure, but every other time you've been asked about this, you've said it was an accident.
And now today at the trial of Alec Baldwin, when you're talking to this jury, you left that word out.
Isn't that true?
Not intentionally, no.
Did you meet with the prosecutors before you testified here today?
Just briefly in the room outside.
For them to tell me who was in order and what witness?
You've discussed your testimony previously with Ms. Morrissey, correct?
Before today?
Just in the pre-trial interview, yes.
We've talked about your lapel that was on.
It's true, right, that the lapel is actually mandatory.
Yes. Right?
And so they came to the officers, passed a law, and told you you had to wear your lapel, right?
Yes. And the way it works is it It secures all of these statements, and when you're done wearing it for the day, you go back to the station, you log it in, and then it exists, right?
Essentially, yeah, but it's more complex than that.
It uploads on itself.
Oh, it self-uploads, so it maintains itself?
Yes. Okay.
And you then talked a little bit about the securing of the scene, and you talked about crime scene tape going up, right?
Yes. But as you just told this jury, you know, at the time, you don't know whether this is an accident or not, right?
Yes. It's not like a crime scene tape.
It's some evidence of a crime.
What? Whether it was an accident or a crime scene is still essential.
And you've been very candid that you've made some mistakes at this scene, right?
Yes. And that you've learned since then about some of these mistakes, right?
Yes. You've said hindsight's 20-20, right?
Yes. You know, you can Monday morning quarterback decisions, but you made them in the field, right?
Yes. And you've said that based on your training and experience, you know that if witnesses are left to speak to each other, they can taint each other's memories, right?
Yes. And sometimes that's incidental and accidental, right?
Yes. And sometimes it's purposeful, right?
Depends on who's there, I guess.
Well, if you were with somebody and somebody was talking to you about the 911 call, right, and they kept saying to you over and over, it wasn't an accident, it wasn't an accident, and then you testify and you leave out the word accident, that could be an example of pain, couldn't it?
Sure. And also, non-witnesses contain people's memories, too.
Do you agree with me?
I guess.
Well, you know, at one point in your testimony previously, you had said that there was a lawyer on the scene that was talking to some of the people that were on the scene.
I believe so, yeah.
Okay. And if that lawyer told somebody on the scene, I think your understanding is that could have tainted their view of their memory, right?
Essentially, yes.
Mr. Baldwin never asked to speak to that lawyer, did he?
Not to my recollection.
And, you know, then you went on and you said, you know, You had told Mr. Baldwin not to speak to the other witnesses.
Do you remember that testimony?
Yes. And I think you were asked approximately five times why Mr. Baldwin was disobeying your orders.
Do you remember that testimony?
Yes. Yeah.
But in the lapel video that we just saw, you're not going up to Mr. Baldwin or these witnesses.
Get out of here.
Get out of here.
I'm an officer.
You've got to separate.
You don't do that, right?
Nope. And also in that video, you can see a lot of these people are coming over to Mr. Baldwin, right?
Yes. One of them comes over and shakes his hand, right?
Yes. Have you ever seen that in all of your experience?
Somebody commit a homicide and everybody and all the witnesses are on the scene circling around the person, shaking his hand.
Objection? Have you ever seen that in your entire career?
No. Objection?
No. And then you went on to say, well, you didn't put him in the cruiser.
You didn't put him in the cruiser because your cruiser was being used, was, I guess, the reason that you gave it.
Did I understand that right?
My patrol unit was being actively used as a post on the other side of the field for a crime scene.
When you say a post, do you mean like it goes somewhere else and you put the tape around it?
The side mirror was wrapped around with crime scene tape.
You mean there were also another dozen officers on the scene that day that had police cars that they wanted to put Mr.
Baldwin in at any point, right?
Yep. Okay.
And in fact, Mr.
Baldwin later on drives himself to the precinct and goes and speaks to the police, right?
I'm not too sure how he got there, but he did get there.
Not to my knowledge, no.
Yes. Isn't it true that even today, years later, no police officer has ever arrested Mr. Baldwin or detained him in a police car?
True? I don't know.
Close speculation.
Fair enough.
You wouldn't know.
Fair enough?
Okay, still on trial.
The police department, the Santa Fe police department, has never arrested Mr. Baldwin.
Not the Santa Fe police department.
Asked and answered.
And one of the things that you do as an officer on the scene is you observe demeanor, right?
Yes. And you spent 10 hours on the scene, I think I heard you say, right?
Yes. You got to see the people of Rust that day live, right?
Yes. And the truth of the matter is that you took it as a way how everybody was acting and that the individual who claimed to have been holding the firearm was still there, that there was no...
The way he was, his demeanor was that there wasn't any intention behind the act, as you could say.
Isn't that true?
What act?
I wouldn't say there was no intention.
I don't know the individual's intentions.
He's not charged with an intentional shooting.
Define the act.
Okay, well, it's not just his demeanor being sad and upset, right?
Okay, we'll move that to the side.
And I understand you're not a mind reader, right?
No, he is.
All you can do is look at the people and look at how they're interacting and make your own judgments, right?
Yes. Okay, and you do that as a police officer to try to figure out how to interact with the scene.
True? Yes.
Okay, and isn't it true that the way you took it, how everybody was acting and that the individual who claimed to have been holding the firearm was still there, that there was no, the way he was, his demeanor was that there wasn't any intention behind the act, as you could say.
Isn't that true?
Again, the wording you're using, I wouldn't say I had any clue of whose intention was what, but he was sad and upset.
Okay, well, let's play.
I'm going to play his statement for that second.
Can we clear that up, please?
That's okay for the court.
Thank you.
He didn't say that he did.
I'm going to impeach him.
Well, you want me to clarify that?
I'm going to impeach him.
Are you claiming that you didn't say that?
Rephrase what you said?
Sure. Dispatch said it was an accidental shooting by a prop gun.
So I, I didn't know if there was any.
I took it as the way how everybody was acting and that the individual who claimed to have been holding the firearm was still there, that there was no, the way he was, his demeanor was that there was, wasn't any intention behind the act, as you could say, you know. Again, I wouldn't say I knew what his intent was.
He's not charged with intent.
And that was also consistent with what he just said.
Did you, in fact, say those words that I just asked you?
At what time?
Gutierrez or PTI?
Yes. May have.
Okay. You don't deny saying that?
No. I think they're arguing that this is improper impeachment.
I mean, they're treating it like a prior inconsistent statement, but he hasn't said anything inconsistent with all of this.
And he's not charged with having the intent to kill Helena.
Yeah. I mean, what's he trying to prove?
That he said it, what does it change in terms of whether or not he did what he actually, we know that he did?
Yeah. I do think we are possibly looking at this like lawyers.
You know, we're focusing on this word intent.
We understand intent has legal significance in homicide and it changes, you know, the type of homicide that you're dealing with and so forth.
My sense is that he's trying to do this more as a theatrical point for the jury of, you know, he didn't mean to do it.
So the jury's going to say, oh, well, the first responder the first day said he didn't have the intent and therefore we should acquit him.
Yeah, maybe the gun must have just went off because he didn't intend to fire it.
If you're reading the statement and it says my name next to him, then I'm going to likely set it.
I just don't recall when.
It's certainly destabilizing the witness.
The framing is designed to make it sound as if it's an accident and not reckless negligence.
That's the framing, and that's what's questionable.
An improper conclusion based on the statement.
Well, it's an improper opinion on the ultimate issue.
But it's also an improper conclusion to draw from this statement.
It's both.
He can't make that conclusion.
And if he had made that conclusion, it's not quite a statement.
A woman named Sarah was crying and shaking and going through the bullets and saying, I don't know how it got in there.
Objection. Hearsay.
I'm asking the witness if he had that information.
That's... I'm asking if you heard someone say it.
Let me put this hearsay in front of the jury.
...
before you got there, shaking and going through the bullets and saying, I don't know how it got in there.
I don't know.
How would he possibly know that?
Before you got there, were people saying things?
I don't know.
It wasn't there.
We don't refresh in front of the jurors.
Now this is a speaking objection.
This is exactly what the defense didn't want and exactly what we knew was going to happen.
Let's see if she starts wobbiering the witnesses while they're on the stand.
With or without the judge's permission.
We're going to take lunch now while you guys figure out how to refresh witnesses.
How can you refresh information that he could not have had any other way than hearsay?
Recollection is what I remember.
He didn't say I don't remember.
He said I don't know.
If he doesn't know, there's nothing to refresh.
That too.
So New Mexico is two hours behind East Coast time.
Yes. Okay.
So they got 50 minutes or change?
They said 1 o'clock, so 50 minutes for lunch.
She just can't help herself, man.
That was very uneventful.
Very boring.
Not learning anything new.
I want to refresh his recollection about things he's never seen before in his life.
He doesn't know.
The first responder police officer who gets there, his statements are now the ultimate adjudication of criminal guilt for manslaughter.
Good luck with that.
Why did she not object to this?
Why does she not object to the opinion on guilt?
That is like black-letter lie.
You do not get to do that.
No, not usually.
Well, because it's Morrissey.
I'm not really a fan of either of these attorneys, to be honest.
His problem, at least to my mind, is he just came in way too hot right from the start.
There's really no need for that, and it doesn't give you a lot of places to go in case you need to get hot later, too.
It's better to start softer and with a more pleasant approach.
First of all, you might actually get some compliance and lower them into some security.
And if not, it gives you some place to go in case you need to get indignant later.
But right off the bat, with the fireman, I'm like, you're at least at a 7. I need you to come down to a 4. Well, and the thing I noticed right off the bat with this police officer is for a witness on cross, he's incredibly agreeable.
So I kind of agree with what you're saying here, Kurt.
He's not fighting at all.
So why would you not just go ahead and lead him to where you want him to be?
You don't have to push him over the cliff to get him there.
Yeah. I just feel so bad for this witness.
He's just going to go home feeling like crap.
This is the same thing that happened in Hannah Gutierrez's trial where both attorneys were like, so you really don't know what you're doing.
So you really screwed up, didn't you?
And he's like, dude, I was just improvising with what I had.
I don't freaking know this.
I'm not in charge of everything on scene.
I just showed up.
I'm showing you what happened.
The end.
But they're treating him as though he's like this pivotal fact witness, when in reality, the only reason he's on the stand and the only reason they're showing the video is to lay a foundation for the other witnesses to come and to sort of frame the issues.
And so I don't get, though, why the defense is deciding to die on this hill.
Well, I think that the objective, when I refer to him as being a prop...
Meaning, as far as the state is concerned, they want the jury to watch that video much more than hear his words.
And that's why he's the prop device.
You can't just throw a video up there.
You need to have someone substantiating it.
So he's the person substantiating the legitimacy of this video in order to have it admitted as evidence.
But the words coming out of his mouth, I think, are relatively unimportant to the state.
And that's why I refer to him as the prop device because he's not what we care about.
We care about...
This evidence getting in in front of the jury.
So his clumsiness is just probably annoying for them.
You know, like the whole investigation is tainted because they weren't immediately isolated on the set.
Yeah, that doesn't seem right.
I mean, he's literally the only guy there right at the start.
He's the only guy there.
This is a movie set.
There's however many people that are in the room plus the other people.
So there's, you know, 50 people there.
He's one guy.
He has to secure the scene.
Secure the scene.
Get people out of the places where they're not supposed to be.
Put the crime scene tape.
Try to isolate witnesses.
Like, I can only be in so many places at once, man.
They're doing this because this is going to be the excuse for the very bad things Alec Baldwin says that they don't want to have to account for.
They're going to blame it on, oh, maybe David Hall suggested it to him.
Maybe somebody else suggested it to him.
His memory was not intact because he was allowed to have this contact with all of these other witnesses at the scene.
That's where I see this going.
Who did he have contact with first?
His attorney!
He called his freaking attorney and talked to his attorney this whole time.
So it's not like he can lean back.
That's going to be the question.
Who was he talking to?
I've never practiced criminal law, but did they read him his Miranda rights?
Or are they going to try to argue that statements he made before the Miranda rights were read are therefore inadmissible?
No, no.
He's not required to have Miranda rights read.
This is not a custodial interrogation.
So he's detained.
He is not under arrest.
He is not subject to all of the restraints ordinarily associated with an arrest, like being in handcuffs, being at the police station, and so forth.
So from my perspective, it's not going to meet the standard for when Miranda's required.
I completely agree with you, Andrea.
As a matter of fact, I think that the person who should have been Mirandized was Hannah Gutierrez.
The minute they started putting her in the back of police cars, you know, escorting her back and forth to the bathroom, etc.
I mean, it's just, she should have been read her Miranda rights, but she wasn't.
And all of the testimony that she gave from the time she was put aside, right?
Right after the shooting, she was set aside.
She was put in the back of the police car.
She started talking and all of that video came in.
So, this is more than fair game.
More than fair game.
Oh, we had a change in color.
Change the background, make it a little bit more pleasant.
I thought it would be nice.
But overall, I think, I'm not really a big fan of either attorney, to be honest.
I find her tone overly aggressive for what she's trying to do, and I find him to be overly indignant.
Neither one I'm particularly huge fans of.
Uncivil, I brought up the comment that everyone says the lawyers pretending to be Alec.
We always say this, the lawyers represent their clients and the clients represent their lawyers in personality sometimes as well.
Baldwin undoubtedly got a lawyer who's going to channel the Baldwin arrogance and the Baldwin rage.
So we don't know who the list of witnesses are as of now, right?
Like, who comes after?
No, we have the list of, like, all the witnesses that they selected.
So we got the list of 44 witnesses, but they're not going to call all those people, so who knows?
Has anyone placed an over-under bet as to whether or not Baldwin testifies?
I don't think he can.
There's so much impeachment material out there, it'd be insane.
The question is simply whether he can be managed by his lawyers.
That's the question for me.
The million-dollar question, will he do what they tell him?
I'm not 100% convinced he can be.
And if he can't, I think it's very likely he will see himself as being so talented and so just superbly in the right that he would be able to sell his case to the jury.
I think that they can manage him, actually.
I think because he's an actor, I think if they play the role of director well enough and they say, hey, this is the image we want, this is your character, this is how you're going to respond to him, I think he could be okay.
I think the problem is the minute he takes the stand, and his attorneys are very well aware of this, all of his prior interviews, all the shit he said that would otherwise be inadmissible now comes in, and I don't think they would.
Ever do that.
Are they already inadmissible or are they party admissions?
That's why.
How could his voluntary out-of-court statements not be admissible?
Yeah, because they're statements against interest.
They're statements of the party opponent.
I think they come in regardless of whether he testifies.
They don't have to wait to impeach him.
They'll be able to bring in his interview whether he testifies or not.
That's what I was thinking, because in Rittenhouse, they couldn't bring up him pleading the fifth and not giving interviews, but my goodness, Alec ran his mouth, and he can't now say, you can't admit any of that.
I wouldn't think, but I don't rely on my knowledge.
I remember one of the motions in Lemony, and I'm going to look through all my notes.
There was a motion in Lemony specifically to that issue, so I'll try and find it, but I remember that there was a problem where there was some exclusion.
That had to do with the prosecutor is arguing that the defense does not get to introduce his own out-of-court statements because he is not his own party opponent.
Right. Self-serving hearsay.
Exactly. Right.
That's what that argument was.
But it doesn't mean that the state isn't going to be able to bring it in.
I fully expect they would bring in everything.
And so then if that's already all on the table, and you're not going to save anything by keeping him off the stand, is he going to push to get on the stand and explain it all?
Oh, he probably will.
I agree with you on that point.
Yeah, I know.
If anyone is interested in giving me three to one odds, I'll bet that Baldwin takes the stand.
I think even money I would bet.
Three to one?
Three to one, man.
I'll bet you 10, and if he takes the stand, you pay me 30. And if he doesn't, I give you 10. I thought you went the other way.
No, no, no, no.
I still think it's less likely, but I think he's going to have to take the stand because they are going to put out all of those interviews about him not pulling the trigger, and he'll try to convince a jury in real time it'll be acting.
I'll take you on that bet, Viva.
Okay, done.
Gentlemen and gentlemen.
No way.
No freaking way.
My hope is...
You see that?
We shook.
We shook right there.
It's a digital shake.
It's happened.
So, I mean, that's...
I would hope that his attorneys show him footage of Amber Heard on the stand and say, look, I know you're a better actor than she is.
But even good actors like Johnny Depp and Amber Heard can have their words used against them.
Don't try it.
Don't do it.
That would be my hope.
If I were the attorney, that's what I would do.
I would literally just take a whole compilation cutscenes of Amber Heard and put it right in front of him and say, I want you to watch this for 10 minutes before we make a decision.
And that's it.
But he's just going to think he's a better actor than her.
He's going to be able to rationalize this all in his mind while she's, you know, she's obviously just whatever she is.
I am the great thespian Alec Baldwin.
I'm Johnny Depp's levels, and Johnny Depp did a great job, so why wouldn't I?
But if I'm Baldwin, I don't think I have a choice.
On the one hand, I don't think I have a choice, and I think I've got nothing to lose because...
Nothing can be more prejudicial than what they're going to get in already in terms of what he said about not pulling the trigger, not pointing a gun at somebody.
That's all out there.
So I don't think he's got a choice in terms of whether or not he testifies.
I think he has a choice, and I think he's in a much better position to let his attorney speak for him.
And I think if the attorneys can make that clear to him and perform confidently throughout this trial, then he'll trust their opinion.
I don't know.
Just my thoughts.
I guess we'll see.
Should be exciting.
Bets are in.
I'm still refreshing the predicted on Biden being the nominee versus Kamala Harris.
Oh yeah, what's the predicted showing right now?
47 cents that Biden will be the nominee, which is less than 50-50.
So I think right now that's going to go back up and then it's going to go back down.
Kamala Harris is at 39 cents that she will be the nominee and I think that's too high.
Barnes yesterday predicting that there's going to be more hit pieces on Joe Biden.
The left is going to melt down, as they're doing.
George Clooney's come out.
I'm trying to read this here.
Rob Reiner has come out now and said that Biden has to withdraw.
It's fantastic.
Rob Reiner said it.
That's why you know it's wrong.
I don't think it's fantastic, though.
Viva, from my perspective as a long-time Republican, I see this as very calculated and very well-timed.
And I think they still have plenty of time to put in a new candidate.
They did this intentionally to try and make sure that RFK couldn't have a chance of ending up on the ballot.
And neither could potential political enemies within the party itself.
The party is very divided.
And I think what's going to end up happening is they timed this.
They knew that the guy's going to die in the next three years.
Come on.
Like, let's be real.
Anybody who's been watching anything about Biden knew that his longevity wasn't going to last forever.
The Biden ship has sailed.
They knew that for a while.
They planned this out to have a dark horse.
Now, I think the real fight is going to be who's the dark horse?
Is it going to be Kamala Harris?
Are they going to try and shoehorn in some other candidate?
The problem with that thinking, on the one hand, is that they've gotten already a little bit too far in the process to easily and logistically swap out Biden.
And there's nobody that can be swapped in for Biden who's going to be less unpopular than Biden himself.
And so the question is almost, do they let Biden lose with a heartbeat or just hope that people vote for the comatose Biden?
He's just got to make it to...
I don't even know if he's got to make it to...
He's got to make it to November.
Just a heartbeat.
Just a heartbeat.
Then swap in Kamala afterwards, because nobody's going to vote for Kamala now.
People will vote for Gavin Newsom.
I think that if there is a potential switch, it's going to be Gavin Newsom.
That's why he was there at the debate stage, near the stage at that time.
That's why he's been inviting Xi Jinping over, and he's been cleaning up California and making policy changes that doesn't cater to...
The far furthest left of his party, but it does cater to the standard classical liberal side of his party.
He is trying to up his image.
And I think really the call is going to be up to Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer.
If they get on board with Newsom, all they need is to hand Biden a script where he stands out there on stage with a script and says, I'm now introducing the man that I really support and love, Mr. Sir.
Governor Gavin Newsom.
And then that's all that has to happen.
Gavin Newsom walks out and boom, bada bing, he's the nominee.
I actually sort of subscribe to that as well because I think that they've been building out Newsom to look like Joe Biden.
But from what people who I consider to be smarter than myself have said is that Newsom would not win the swing states.
He won't win the Midwest and he won't even win his own state.
He's that unpopular.
Whether or not they just need a functional body is the issue.
We'll see.
I hope not.
I think Newsom is scary.
I think that there's enough extreme leftists that would absolutely get behind him.
I think there's enough money behind Gavin Newsom to really help him in the polls.
By the way, you guys, these are arguments, okay?
It doesn't mean that I subscribe to this or that I think he'll win over Trump.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm just saying, based on my observations of the DNC, I don't think that they're going to risk it.
I mean, maybe Kamala.
Maybe. I don't know.
I think it's going to be Kamala at the end of the day.
I think that's probably the most likely scenario.
I think Kamala's going to come in.
Gavin Newsom is now trading at 8 cents.
He was once at like...
Let me see if I can track the charts of 30 day and wherewith...
Newsom really went up for a while.
Harris. Volume.
It is not healthy for people with, you know, Newsom was up to 23 cents at one point.
Maybe even more.
Can the party coalesce around Kamala?
That's my thinking.
I think she's more detestable than Joe Biden.
Right, than Biden.
And so I'm like, that's my struggle here.
I want to say, okay, yeah, Kamala is a surefire, you know, step in.
But... Nobody seems to like her.
No, and I've got an active bet against Kamala, regardless of who is replaced if Joe Biden gets bumped out.
It's wild.
But, oh, well, this trial, there's going to be some juicy moments of this trial, but if, what's-his-face doesn't testify, if Baldwin doesn't testify, it's going to be very, very anticlimactic.
I don't think he will.
I'm waiting for my 10 bucks.
Or wait, 30 bucks, right?
No, no, no.
I would give you 10, you give me 30. I don't do Venmo, so I'll have to do PayPal.
And we'll have to declare that because it's taxable revenue.
It's an easy 10 bucks.
I'll take it.
So now, if we're looking at this, Andrea, Joe, and Nate.
If I go and refresh, are they talking?
Are they doing...
First of all, can I do a simultaneous stream?
If they're doing a side stream, I'm just saying.
But that's my guilt.
That's what I don't want to feel guilty about.
I might put this on, not pause, but let this run when it comes back on and then do my own stream where I talk.
Well, we could take a break because we do have a separate afternoon scheduled for 2.30.
How do you mean that?
You end it and then restart.
We end the stream and then we set it up.
You go and do the exact same thing you did before where you join the stream.
And then restream to your various platforms.
And then it just restreams the stream.
I am not going to be doing a lunch breakdown or a lunch stream every day.
That's too much for me.
I personally am not.
But I will be doing it later tonight.
So I am going to be doing a separate stream tonight.
Oh, just out of curiosity.
I don't gamble too much because it's a nominal amount.
What I do is refresh too much because it's like...
If it weren't that, I'd be refreshing the news or refreshing Twitter.
It's just like it's an OCD compulsion.
I can't gamble too much because I hate losing money and I'm a bad gambler.
But my predictions thus far, as relates to this, it's not gambling anymore because it's an understanding of the political landscape.
I was right about the debate.
Holy crab apples.
That's where I said it was going to be a disaster.
Whether or not it was a deliberate setup because, Danny, I sort of felt like the deep state wanted to find a way to get Joe out.
Would be politically palatable or everyone would see the necessity.
But Barnes presents a decent argument that the deep state loves Joe Biden.
Why would they need to get him out?
He does their bidding for him.
He's a puppet.
He's the best puppet you could ever have.
But that's why you'd have to assume they don't want him out.
The only issue is whether or not they see him not living until November or I don't even know if he'd have to live until November.
That's it.
Yeah, I don't...
I don't know.
I think that the deep state really loves Joe Biden as long as they can actually use him.
I think, though, he's expired his use.
I think he's to the point where there's not much they can do to help him.
By the way, you guys, just because I'm putting forward this idea.
Listen, Newsom, we all know, has destroyed California.
But the question is, do California voters care and are they aware?
Because most California voters are willing to hold their nose and vote Newsom over Trump.
That's the reality.
We are not talking about people who care about policy.
We're talking about people who care about who's president and how it looks to them.
Period. We've learned this over the past five years, six years now.
So, you know, that's my personal thought.
I have an errand that I need to run.
Can one of you guys end the stream?
I'm going to kill it now.
I've got to go take care of some kids.
We will be back.
We will see you, I guess, in an hour or whenever they come back from court.
We'll see you later this afternoon.
Until then, my friends, I hope all's well.
Cheers, my friends, for now, and goodbye.
Subscribe to everybody!
Love you guys.
See you in a bit.
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