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June 12, 2024 - Viva & Barnes
01:13:06
Live Interview with Russell Brand - From Blue Pill to Red Pill, & Everything In Between! viva Frei
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Amazing.
Everybody, what time is it?
It's like, we're two o 'clock at Longboat Keys.
And for those of you who don't know where that is, I woke up this morning, 5.55, and then traversed the peninsula of Florida through a road called Alligator Alley.
And it's literally called Alligator Alley because it crosses the swamp.
You can see alligators in the, whatever, the ravine or the river on the side of it to drive to the Rumble Studio for a bucket list item.
And I'm going to have to, like...
Open up this parenthesis when I get to our guest, because it's been a bucket list item since I've seen movies, because I used to watch movies back when I was not repulsed by what Hollywood always was, but I've since learned it was.
And it's been a bucket list item.
We've got Russell Brand on.
Okay, so some of you know I met him a while back at the inaugural Cutting the Rope at the Longboat Keys Rumble Studio, and it's a surreal thing to now be sitting here with Russell.
Who's going to answer?
We're going to have a discussion with Russell on Rumble.
Russell, good afternoon, sir.
Thank you so much for having me in your environment.
This has only recently become my environment.
My environment was totally different.
A courtroom 10 years ago.
Russell, I'll qualify something now because I'm not uncomfortable.
I'm almost embarrassed.
I'm not ogling you like a celebrity.
There's no but to that.
My concern is that you might think that this is like a trophy hunt for me or feel objectified as a human.
I'm not trying to be too psychoanalytic.
I saw it get into the Greek, and I hate to bring a person down to a movie as though you're an object and not a human.
But when I watched that movie, I said, something more is going on in this movie beyond one of the best comedies ever made.
And then I got to know you through your red pill journey.
Is that what it is?
A red pill journey?
I think it is.
Your life has gone through several arcs.
You have the pre-recovery, post-recovery, pre-red pill, post-red pill, and now you're post your religious transformation, and it's one hell of an arc of a human life.
I'm a slow learner.
Or, I don't know, to the extent that you learn faster than most.
So, Russell, look, when I ever have a guest on, I go right...
To the beginning, I know a bit about your childhood because I've listened to Recovery and I've listened to Revelations on the way over here at 1.3.
That's pretty good, that Revelations.
It's fantastic.
I mean, I'm not saying it because you're here.
It's fantastic because it's not a stream of consciousness, but it's a stream of awakening.
And it's wild because it was written, you wrote it at the beginning of COVID.
Yeah, that's right.
It's in a sense some essays and reflections and I wrote it as an audiobook.
It's not in print.
I did it with Stacey, my friend Stacey Creamer, who works at Audible, which just goes to show that even within the global citadels, there are good people, like everywhere, presumably somewhere in the Canadian Parliament, somewhere in Congress, there are people of dignity and honour to be found.
And she set me up to do that audiobook.
And yeah, I feel like it's taking place during COVID, isn't it?
Early on.
And I'm trying to contextualize that revelations to where you are now and things that you put in that essays that you may have attenuated or even changed your views on.
Yeah, I wonder if I have.
It's interesting.
I'm about 40 minutes left.
I was listening to it at 1.3 and I didn't get all the way through.
But backing it up all the way to the beginning, I know from recovery that you had a childhood which obviously marks the rest of your life.
Your parents, what do they do?
How many siblings did you have?
Where were you brought up in England?
I'm from a place called Graze in Essex.
Essex is the New Jersey of the UK.
It's an overspill from that urban wonderland Londinium.
You go along the River Thames at its estuaries lead ineluctably to Essex.
And that is where I'm from.
My mum...
She did a variety of jobs.
Secretarial work.
She worked in a bar.
She sold clothes.
She would go to the east end of London and acquire clothes from wholesalers and sell them at clothes parties.
You know, like when they used to do parties where you sell products and stuff like that.
My whole childhood, I grew up...
Around women.
My dad was like an incredible man, actually.
I didn't grow up with my dad here.
Him and my mum were not together while I was growing up.
But I would see him somewhat sporadically on occasion, but he's got a brilliant sense of humour.
I have no siblings at all.
Only child and parents split up.
Only child, single mother is basically in Essex in England, which is like a working class community.
Which has become subsequently famous in the same way that Jersey Shore has, because of a reality TV show called The Only Way Is Essex, which sort of celebrates a revist and occasionally nouveau rich, sort of culturally kind of...
What do I want to say?
There's a kind of casual blue-collar, not nihilism, but a kind of jocularity and disregard for...
Protocol niceties, I suppose, in Essex.
I know of Sussex, but that's only from a joke in The Simpsons where he's like, fresh from the streets of Sussex they are, Governor.
Is Essex like Sussex, or what's the difference between the two?
The suffix is for Saxony.
East Saxony is Essex.
South...
Middle Saxony is Sussex.
Middle Saxony is Middlesex.
So these are all the regions of Saxony prior to, you know, the establishment of the United Kingdom.
Okay, phenomenal.
Well, only child, I mean, that's always relevant.
It doesn't explain anything necessarily, but it's a defining element like being the youngest of five in terms of how one...
Is that what you are?
Yeah, the youngest of five.
And, you know, parents stayed married and, you know, I was the fifth kid, I think.
The parents no longer care if something happens.
It's like, we've got four and...
I'm into my third.
I'm caring less and less with every child.
It's a good thing because the third one becomes more robust and the first one gets all the attention.
Everybody knows of your life arc.
If I can ask, and I'm genuinely curious, when did you start getting into trouble?
When does the...
What you managed to fight back from.
When does it start?
When do you trace back the trajectory of what led you into a life of addiction?
I'm thinking about Jesus all the time, you know, these days.
I'm thinking about Jesus all the time.
So when you say something like, when did you start getting in trouble?
The other day I was reading Timothy Keller's book, The Problem of God, and he proposes a prayer towards the end of this book, which amounts to an argument against materialists, rationalists and atheists who may have rejected faith in general, excuse me, and Christianity specifically, but have a bunch of unassessed assumptions about morality and reality.
For example, one brilliant argument that Keller puts forward is like, you know, there's a young couple come visit his church, they don't believe in God.
And he says, do you believe in anything?
And like from this process, he discovers that the female in particular believes in women's rights and that there should be women's rights in Afghanistan or places where we might imagine that due to, for cultural reasons, women's rights might not be a sort of a priority or at least not framed in the same way as we'd frame them in our nations, you know, the old Anglophonic nations.
And he says, well, why should women be equal?
On what basis?
From where?
And there's a bunch of George Carlin material where he talks about rights, and he talks about values, and he talks about principles.
The reason I mention this now is because in this prayer towards the end of Keller's book, he says, God, I've always believed in you, and I've always known you, Jesus, but...
This has not prevented me from having at the core of my being a kind of fundamental self-reliance, which is something that's talked about in recovery a lot.
And when you have this fundamental self-reliance, I think what you're saying is, I'm God, actually.
I'm God.
I'm going to solve my problems based on what I think I should do, on my assessment of reality.
And you know, like, how this relates to the sort of biographical prelude we just endured, or at least went through, is that...
I'm from this time of entrepreneurialism, of facturism, and Reagan, of this rebooting of the working class, of self-made people like my dad, an ordinary working class guy who got involved in various businesses.
My mum, who was attempting in her own way to sort of make a living.
And all of these things, in a sense, are predicated on the idea that you as an individual are going to make something of yourself.
You're going to make something...
And me, I was always leaning into myself and I was always getting into trouble as a result.
I was always getting in trouble at school.
I was always getting in trouble at home.
I didn't feel like I fitted in anywhere.
Nothing really made sense to me.
I had a sort of a kind of a fundamental disdain or dislike for authority and an ever inquiring mind, which is why in our conversation earlier on my show, I am sympathetic to people that have that post-modern proclivity towards deconstructivism.
Why?
Why should we?
Is the family the way that people should live together?
Are there only two sexies?
What about the variety of types of man and typewriter?
Now, I'm not saying I have a...
But what I'm saying is I'm sympathetic to people that look at everything and go, I'm not sure.
How come I don't know this is some kind of hoax?
How come I don't know?
Because sometimes I think our whole sensory experience is a hoax.
Our whole reality is a construct.
I'm not saying that there aren't universals.
I'm not saying that there aren't absolutes.
I'm saying that universals and absolutes are generally exploited by the powerful and I felt that like I was a little kid and it's only now through knowing Jesus that I'm starting to feel like, oh God, there's something I can...
What I can rely on is something I can rely on.
Now, does that answer your question or any questions?
No, well, I mean, kind of.
The rebellious nature and some people tend to think, like, you described something, oppositional defiance is what they might have called it back in the day.
Oppositional defiance disorder.
I'm writing that down.
It's a good one.
Now, I don't know if they diagnose kids with it anymore, but...
I've got oppositional defiance disorder, my boy.
Questioning everything.
The detestation of being told what to do as though you have to do it because someone tells you to do it.
Don't do it because people are saying do it.
You grow up in England.
You're running into...
How do you get into what you do?
You end up as a stand-up comic as an actor.
Do you go to university?
What do you study to get to where you ended up?
The only thing that's ever given me respite other than heroin was the feeling of...
Simultaneous connection and transcendence that comes from performance or from, you know, like a...
Morrissey, of whom I'm still a great fan, says, I don't...
Once after a show, because I adored Morrissey and then got to be friends with him, once after a show, and that was a wonderful performance, I don't perform.
Seals perform, unfortunately.
So arch about everything and language in particular.
But like I only felt connected and a sense of transcendence and purpose through performance.
And that like most people would come from doing school plays or making people laugh.
And that happened when I was pretty young.
I guess I was 14 and it felt, to me, empowering.
Simultaneously...
In that individualistic way that I've touched upon, like, you know, that it sort of bolsters you as an individual, gives you a sense of worth, but also it's beyond that.
Like, there's a connection to something higher than self.
You know, like, again, to return to these kind of religious ideas, that you are not the God of yourself.
You are not the God of yourself.
That when we pray, we don't pray to God to fulfill our will.
We pray that we might fulfill...
God's will.
And I feel like when one fulfills one's purpose, when what the world needs meets with what you have to offer, there is this sort of sense of personal transcendence.
So in doing that, even when I'm doing a school play or doing stuff on MTV, or even appearing in movies, but probably particularly doing stand-up comedy...
There is a sort of sense of, aha, there's a thread, there's a connection, that there is a sort of a flow, a charge, those things for which there is not language, the things that are too subtle and too nuanced for us to locate linguistically, nevertheless govern us.
This interface between chaos and order viva, we're sort of emergent, out of chaos, there are temporal patterns, and we feel them individually, and then we have to reduce them due to the limitations of the bandwidth of language.
Okay.
No, really?
No, no, no.
That makes sense to me.
It makes sense, and I'm just, I have to, I'm going to try to keep my questions aligned temporally.
You have a, I mean, not just clearly, but you have a religious sense which you now retrospectively understand that you've always had.
Yeah, it's always there.
Don't you think that?
Well, I, it's, well, I have the difficulty of distinguishing between superstition.
And spirituality, inasmuch as I also have the difficulty distinguishing between obsession and addiction, which is, when I was listening to Recovery, one of my biggest questions is, where's the line between addiction and compulsion, if there is one?
But then also, where's the distinction, where's the line between...
Superstition and spirituality.
That's excellent.
Superstition, I suppose, is deracinated as spirituality, that it's become dislocated from purpose.
Ceremony and ritual help us actualize the ineffable and the unknowable.
That this can never be known or understood, but we appreciate that it is there.
We sense it.
We intuit it.
We feel it.
We have been shown it through the word and through ceremony and ritual.
We actualize it.
We act it out.
We create it.
We generate it.
We acknowledge its sigils.
We acknowledge the apotropaic power of certain symbols.
Substitution is...
You know, I am also superstitious.
I am also superstitious.
Oh no, there's a hat on the bed!
Like I wouldn't walk over a ladder.
I see a magpie.
That's a kind of bird.
A magpie is like a crow.
A black crow.
It's a type of crow.
It's a black and white crow in our region of the world.
So the difference between superstition and spirituality is whether or not you are inherently connected to it or whether it's become deracinated, dislocated, whether the symbol has lost its connection to the...
That which is supposed to signify, I reckon.
Now, addiction is supposed to be, this is not my work, obsession and compulsion.
Obsessive thinking and the compulsion to act.
Addiction, I suppose, by definition, is any act, behaviour, habit or trait that has deleterious consequences and that you cannot curtail regardless of that.
So it could be masturbation.
That doesn't mean masturbation is always negative, although myself, I am...
I do abstain from such practices.
And it could mean heroin, although I suppose some people could take heroin recreationally and occasionally and put it down.
Alcohol, sugar, all of it.
But mostly addiction I see as a correlative to attachment, which is, I think, interesting because that's a word that comes up a lot, excuse me, in spirituality as we make idols, we make gods, we are in it.
Inevitably and unavoidably religious, but at what altar do you worship?
What is the idol you worship?
So, where is the distinction?
Deleterious consequences.
Is it damaging or harming you or others?
Now, I know this because I've read the book.
It's an amazing thing to me that some people can make that change and, on the one hand, recognize that there's a problem.
And then actually be able to solve it or overcome it.
When did it become clear to you you had a problem that you needed to change or it would end you?
Well, it was because other people told me.
Other people showed to me that I had a problem with addiction.
Typically, though, the problem is someone doesn't want to see it, is unable to see it, and reacts defensively or aggressively when someone tries to bring that to their...
How do people successfully do that?
How do they successfully do it with you?
The first time I drank, the first time I engaged with almost every substance that I subsequently became addicted to, there was a problem.
There was a problem the first time I got drunk.
I got so drunk that I was vomiting everywhere.
There was a problem the first time I smoked weed.
It caused a big lot of chaos in the school.
Almost every time I did all of this stuff, there was a problem.
It was an indication.
You know, and this is where the diagnosis that addiction is a spiritual problem becomes useful.
But you, it's not those things are fundamentally bad.
They are fundamentally bad for you.
You need a spiritual solution.
And if you try to approximate or synthesize a spiritual solution through material means you're going to have a problem.
So when it became apparent that it was an unavoidable issue and it had to be redressed and remedied, was blessedly I became dependent on crack and heroin.
In particular, heroin, which is biochemically a tenacious substance, let's call it.
I started to mess up.
I was using drugs with people that slept rough and stuff, homeless people for want of a better synecdoche.
And I was bringing them into unusual places because I was on the periphery of show business then.
And my then manager, a man called John Knoll, Introduced me to a brilliant man called Chip Summers.
He was the first person in recovery I figure that I ever met.
And between them, they ushered me into recovery.
That man, Chip Summers, asked me what drugs I was taking and how often.
And I told him and he said, all right, the phrase was, you're a complete garbage head.
If you don't stop drinking and using in the next six months, you'll be dead.
Or in prison or in an institution.
And that was...
So it wasn't something I came to myself.
Although, again, like with Christ, I always knew, I always knew that this was a problem.
Are you asking this in case other people might find it useful?
How do you intervene if someone's a drug addict?
Or how do you yourself know if you're a drug addict?
Are you asking because of that?
Well, that occurred to me.
But no, mostly because I've always wanted to ask you this in particular as a segue into...
When I watched the movie Get Him to the Greek, not to be tongue-in-cheek or glib, when I was watching The Greatest Comedy, I said, this guy's not acting, this guy's either remembering or channeling.
And I always wanted to know if that character was actually...
I don't know temporally if it was written after.
It had to be written after.
But was it written for you?
Was it ad-libbed?
Or did you inject your own being into that?
I'd done that film, Sarah Marshall, with the same filmmakers and the director, Nicola Stola, and under the auspices and tutelage of Judd Apatow, whose production all of them set of films was.
And in Sarah Marshall, I suppose what Judd Apatow's incredible success was based on, as well as his own comedic pedigree and abilities, was his facilitation of the people he collaborated with.
He would encourage you to improvise in the development stage.
In Sarah Marshall, for example, there was like a month, I think, that was there prior to...
Filming and we were doing improvisations and workshops and stuff.
And then there's Nikola Stola and the other people that were like in that umbrella Apatow organization.
Would you like to do another film?
And that was kind of like a dream, really.
I mean, it was a dream in the first place to be in films.
I wanted to be an actor when I started doing stand-up comedy.
When you say, I wanted to be an actor, what do you want, really?
I want to escape from the reality that I'm living in.
I do not like this reality that I'm living in.
The culture is telling me that if I become famous, I will have meaning and purpose and power.
Anyway, so when I did that, Sarah Marshall, they said, we really like this character.
Should we do another film around it?
Would you like to work with...
Jonah Hill.
I was like, oh my God, yeah, that would be incredible.
And then there was a sort of a similar process of inquiry from the sort of brilliant filmmaker, Nicholas Stoller, who directed them films, where they sort of asked me a bunch of questions and done a bunch of workshops.
So, of course, yeah, the character was a sort of pretty close approximation of not only my personal experiences, but to some degree, the person I am.
Although I do remember a lot them saying, speak slower and...
In hindsight, I feel like it's kind of a cooler version of me.
Because a rock star is kind of cool in a way that a comedian can't ever be.
I guess I still remember the name, but...
Yeah, well, it was...
Getting to know you now, you still feel like the same person.
Oh, good.
Because he was cool.
Have you all but left?
I mean, you're now in a totally different realm.
How have I not?
Not for any choice of mine.
But there was a sort of a kind of inertia, if I could say.
In a way, that was the anomaly.
Because remember, before this, I was a drug addict, which makes you a kind of outlaw, because you are taking illicit substances in order to survive.
And anyone who's a drug addict, unless you're rich maybe, I suppose, you have to get involved in pretty peripheral activity to do it, even if it's just going to crack houses to get crack and hanging out.
It moves you into the type of places that our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ says you should be operating in anyway, but perhaps with the intention of helping rather than scoring drugs.
So becoming successful, if that's an appropriate term, in Hollywood and media...
And all of that was really just, oh, I've got this set of traits and abilities that are applicable, which are probably no different from you having the acuity and clarity and ability to narrativise and understand law and how to create a case and how to communicate.
And you sort of look around and think, oh, this skill set will...
Prevail in this area.
But that's sort of based on assumptions around individualism, economic requirements, what success looks like, or prescriptions.
By the way, to my point earlier about gender identity, up for scrutiny and analysis.
What is it that is success?
If your culture tells you you become a movie star, you will be happy.
Then you become a movie star and you are not happy.
What does...
That mean?
And I think that world has become, it seems from the outside, a lot more charged and peculiar since I was participating in it.
But it wasn't like I made a conscious choice, like, I don't want to be in Hollywood no more.
It's like the film Arthur, that it didn't do as well as it needed to do for me to continue to be offered roles like that.
And also...
But this wasn't what was determining it, because I probably wouldn't have had the strength of character to make these kind of choices.
I got really, really adrift and unhappy in that world.
And that's what the hedonism is about.
That's why you are hedonic, because pleasure is performing a function that the spirit and a connection to God is supposed to perform, or could perform, does perform, will perform, if you're willing to die unto yourself.
Now, that brings us into where you are now.
You have a totally transformation of life, where some people call it a red pill journey.
I wonder, though, that red pill journey to me sounds like you've gone right wing.
No, I mean, it means you've taken the pill that shows you what life is really about, and once you see it, you can't unsee it.
Neo.
Like Neo.
I mean, I love Neo.
The irony is that it's been used as a right-wing politics thing, and I think the person who directed that movie subsequently went on to change their gender in as much as you can and is angry that it's being used by the right.
But, I mean, some people are going to say, look, you now see things in a way that upsets the powers that be because of the accuracy and insight that you're offering to the broad audience that you're offering it to.
But all this stuff's online.
You can see me in 2015 saying there's no point in voting for anyone.
Because we have a uniparty system in the UK, and whoever you vote for, you will end up with the same corporate and globalist interests being served.
Now, people would not have said that I was red-pilled in 2015.
The term didn't exist, even if the movie existed.
I think often what people mean is a kind of libertarian, sort of Jordan Peterson-style purview.
Is that, you know...
Yeah, well, it's interesting.
You might have been even ahead of the curve back then in terms of seeing the fact that some people say left and right, Republican versus Democrat, but it is a uni-party.
It is sort of an administrative state, and one party sort of scratches the back of the other.
So you were...
Brexit?
By that point in time, how were you politically and how were you viewed within the industry?
Man, like at that point, I was still sort of making films, like being in sort of movies that were inverted commas, Hollywood movies.
But my daughter was born in, if she said, like, you know, around 2018, my youngest baby.
I'm not very good at maths, but like around that time, I got married to my beautiful, lovely wife.
I was having kids and was living a different type of life, and I felt disgusted by a lot of those systems, and disgusted by my own participation in them.
But when it comes to how I have regarded authority, look, remember, whether you're talking about Lacan or Foucault or Chomsky, An analysis that you can't trust the establishment, you can't trust the media.
This was out of the extreme left.
These critiques come out of the extreme left.
Now, for me, the left doesn't mean, except in its iteration through communism, it doesn't necessarily mean centralise all power and nullify all culture.
It ought mean, I forget those terms left and right, they're sort of unhelpful.
What I care about is...
allow individuals the maximum amount of freedom allow communities the maximum amount of freedom have the ability to oppose tyranny in all its forms whether it is corporate or state be aware Both those forms.
And be particularly aware when those two forms of power combine.
And watch out.
Watch for the tropes and language, ideas, ideals, distractions they use to prevent you from realizing that's what's happening.
For me, it's just extraordinary that now, like as we've discussed in our conversation on my show, that everything appears to have flipped.
Everything has flipped to the extent that...
You, with your history, you get on a rumble and you become wildly popular as though that's a bad thing and they use that against you as a sign that you've now gone to the extreme right or catering to conspiracy theories and the alt-right.
You have had some 180s in terms of appreciation of the world in which we live.
I think when I first started really seeing it is when you were going after Hillary Clinton.
A lot of people have been saying it for a year, but not everybody can come to the realization at the same time.
And you started getting very critical of Hillary Clinton to the point where, I don't know if you noticed, in the chat they said Russell Brand is not suicidal.
It's the stereotypical joke.
When do you realize that things have gone off the rails in terms of politics and in terms of control over the people?
2008?
There's so many points, aren't there?
When Obama became president, I thought, oh, this is a good thing.
This is a good thing.
This is not only novel, but it is an innovation, it is a progression.
And then when Obama, through quantitative easing, bailed out the financial interests that had, if not engineered, had certainly benefited from and...
You know, it looks like caused the financial collapse that led to the impoverishment of individuals and communities, not only in the United States, but across the world.
And we're still feeling the consequences of that to this day.
That's when I felt like, you know, I never thought, oh, yeah, Bill Clinton, that dude's going to save the world.
You know, I don't believe in that kind of crap or Tony Blair or any of those people.
It's just not like something I believe in.
And I don't, those are not, those I have always felt.
You don't trust those institutions.
So there never would have been a point where I would have been a person that was like, do you know what's great?
Hillary Clinton, because what that is is a powerful woman making it.
I even felt the same thing about Margaret Thatcher.
Margaret Thatcher, this is not a feminist icon.
All of these individuals, and the same thing happens in culture actually, you feel that your personal power is some reflection on your own personal greatness, but you have just become temporarily useful to a system.
And it will use whatever attributes you might have in order to advance its own interests.
So in the culture, if you're the wild man archetype, you're the hedonistic, promiscuous, salacious, concupiscent individual that we've seen play out, and in particular since the 60s, we've seen that archetype again and again and again.
Well, that can be easily metastasized if you are no longer useful to the culture.
But, you know, in politics, oh, this is a feminist politician, or this is a politician from this background, or of this race, or of this culture.
This is an indication that the culture is working and the system is working.
It's not an indication of anything.
It's just sort of a thin veneer laying across a centralised monolith of abrupt and intrusive power that will plunder us all if we don't oppose it.
Well, that's maybe a good segue into this.
You know who Tommy Robinson is?
Oh yes, of course.
And now, I mean, he was on a couple weeks ago.
We were talking about the evolution of what's going on in England, what's going on in the UK.
You've lived through it as well, I presume.
I mean, you still live full-time overseas?
Yes, yes.
And I mean, how has that situation progressed?
How are the...
Demographics shifting.
And what is the evolution of Europe now?
You were asking about Brexit.
And then when Brexit, the assumption was, oh, people that vote for Brexit are racist.
But actually...
What has happened, I think, increasingly since the 90s is that there was once an alliance between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat to use a sort of appropriate nomenclature for a sort of leftist movement.
And that alliance broke down around the time of Clinton and Blair and the relationships between the trade unions and both the Democrat Party and your, excuse me, not you, I know you're Canadian, America and the Labour Party in my country.
Since then, there has been an ongoing attempt to vilify And demonize working class people.
You see it in the phenomena of Trump, who, for whatever his assets and flaws are, has incredible appeal among working-class Americans in particular.
And in the Brexit movement, which was generally contemporaneous with that movement, we saw a comparable vilification of working-class people in the north of the country or in working-class communities.
They're racist, they're racist.
But in fact, what they were was sick and tired of corruption and hypocritical power and corruption.
Corrupt power and exploitative power.
And they wanted some kind of control over their own borders, presumably.
Immigration seems to be a pretty important issue to a lot of working people.
For obvious reasons, they're impacted by it in ways that you're not if you're in a sort of a professional, academic, laptop class type job.
And from a general sense that they're losing their country, they're losing their values, they're losing their connection to the land and to who they are.
And that was widely condemned and they were spoken of pejoratively and they were spoken of in ways that were kind of sort of disgusting.
Some people said, why is there not a left-wing case for Brexit or a socialist case for Brexit?
Nationalism is obviously a reaction to globalism, to the sense that we're losing control of our own countries because of the various organisations like NATO and WHO and the WEF.
We feel this everywhere, that power is migrating and centralising somewhere, that power is being sucked out of our communities and our lives, and where is it residing now?
People are continually asking.
Yeah, our country's changed this Brexit.
Tommy Robinson is a person who's always had extraordinary, like an extraordinary appeal, certainly for the last five, ten years.
And now, of course, what we're seeing in our country is the resurgence in this election cycle of Nigel Farage, who is now leader of the Reform Party, and he's going to make, I imagine, significant gains.
Unlikely, unless there's a sort of unprecedented near miracle in British politics, The next leader of the opposition after the globalist centralist...
The Labour Party presumably takes power.
We're all in the same sphere of the interwebs in terms of what we talk about, what we're looking at, corruption, politics, call it globalism.
Boris Johnson, you're following the war in Ukraine.
I'm not as familiar with the British stuff or the UK stuff, but there's a lot of people who fault Boris Johnson for basically deterring or discouraging or preventing I mean, the broader question is, are you more shocked now?
Are you surprised at the level of globalist corruption or just sheer madness that you have been discovering, explaining, and exposing to the world?
Are you shocked about it?
Or had you always had this inkling even going back a decade?
15 years.
A bit, I suppose I had the inkling, like when we were talking to Chris the other day.
Kravlovsky on this show.
Maybe it's always been like this.
Maybe all that's changed is now we have these tools of communication and the ability to set up near-immediate counter-narratives.
Just an obvious example being the Nord Stream pipeline.
As soon as that Nord Stream pipeline blows up, any person paying any attention at all will be like, well, that's sort of a psyops.
That's sort of a deep state operation.
And you're told, no, Russia did that themselves.
And then...
Quite quickly now, you have credible journalists like Seymour Hersh or Chris Hedges saying, of course it was either Swedish or Finnish or Ukrainian.
CIA-backed operations.
But that's just one of many examples where you get to see in real time that what we're told, you know, there are weapons of mass destruction.
We're going into Iraq.
We're all now familiar with the fact that there's no real connection between the 9-11 attacks and the wars of dominion and the resource-based wars in the Middle East.
It wasn't really a counter-terrorist operation.
It was a pro-terrorist operation.
It certainly generated terrorism.
So, like, in a way, starting from the perspective of never trust authority, start from the position of I do not trust authority.
In fact, I gave a talk at my kid's school, which I imagine they thought would be a lot more about being in, you know, Despicable Me and Hop and bedtime stories and a lot less about never trust authority under all circumstances.
Always assume that authority is corrupt.
One kid walked out.
Yes!
Exactly!
Even my authority may be corrupt.
That is my starting point, is to be sceptical and inquiring about the nature of authority.
But since getting involved in this world, as you say, we're in the same world, generally speaking, I've been continually questioning...
It's weird, because in one way, you're streaming about it.
So it's sort of, in a sense, entertainment.
In a sense, you're like, oh, this is interesting that Hunter Biden's done that.
Oh, this is interesting that there are Russian warships in the Caribbean.
Oh, this is interesting that Black Rocks appear to have deals to rebuild Ukraine immediately.
Oh, that's pretty fascinating that Anthony Fauci was having these meetings with the CIA.
Oh, that's peculiar that they knew this in 2019, or they patented that in 2012.
All this stuff.
Then you realize that it's real, and that stuff happens to you.
Personally, and the possibility of, let's face it, Armageddon starts to loom large.
It's a very difficult place to navigate, and it's beyond me as an individual even to comprehend what's happening, and it's another reason to keep surrendering to Christ.
Actually, that might be the good segue.
What I've noticed in your books is it seems to be, to me, a sincere desire to help people and to want to improve other people's lives.
You start with yourself and then you help the other.
Now you've gone religious.
You've gone religious.
You've gone all religious.
I saw the video of the baptism.
How was that progression?
I struggle with the line between spirituality and religion.
Liking the spirituality and considering myself spiritual but not liking the organized aspect of traditional religions and religious structures.
You've gone...
Full into it, and it's an amazing thing to see.
How did it happen?
No one was more opposed to organized religion than Jesus Christ.
In fact, his entire ministry appears to be dedicated to the necessity of an individual personal awakening through love and an awareness that institutional religion, mostly in the form of the Pharisees, It's one of the biggest corrupting influences.
A spiritual person or a religious person, depending on your preferred term, will face me because of suffering, because of fear, because of anguish.
There's just someone telling us the time.
Does that mean we have 40 minutes left?
That means we've done 40 minutes.
Okay, cool.
You'll tell me when he has to.
Chris, I would say, Russell, I'll keep you here as long as you can stay.
So you let me know when it's time to take him.
I'm happy to do another 20. I'm in no rush unless we've got some ink.
All right, mate.
Cheers.
So I didn't make a decision to go religious.
I'm religious.
I've always been religious.
I'm obsessed with God.
I've always been obsessed with God.
The problem comes when...
I think I'm it.
That's when the problem comes, when my fear and desire are my organising principles.
I might have an extreme case of this, like any addict, but I think it's a problem that we all share to one degree or another, that without God, we become God.
And the 12 steps is a brilliant way of organising that, and a chemical dependency issue is a good way of...
Iterating, understanding, physicalising.
Do you see that you are making alcohol, your God?
Do you see you'll do anything for this substance?
Even if it has negative consequences, you keep drinking, right?
Yeah, yeah, right.
Stop drinking.
Now what happens to you?
Oh my God, my world is flooded with anguish and pain, right?
Now you understand why you drank, because you can't cope with pain and anguish.
Is the drink even working?
No, it isn't.
There is one who is all-powerful.
That one is God.
May you find him now.
It takes you to God.
It confronts you with God.
Now, what happened was, is that...
After an ongoing and various attempts to find salvation and peace through worldly means, finally, shipwrecked, broken, I surrendered.
This has happened to me many, many times.
When you get clean from drugs and alcohol, it breaks you in two.
It breaks you.
Broken has a couple of uses, doesn't it, in language?
Broken as in destroyed, but also broken the way that a horse or an animal might be broken into obedience.
And what I suppose has happened...
And this point in my life is an additional acknowledgement that, all right, thanks, mate.
I'll wrap up.
If they're ready to do it, you just tell me what amount of time they need to be ready.
And that's about it.
Because I could do the meditation now.
I'm ready to do it.
Hello, welcome to the meditation.
For the next 20 minutes, we're going to be meditating.
So I'm ready.
So you organize it to the requirements of our team.
And just give me the thumbs up and we'll wrap it up when it's good.
Cheers, Kieran.
And we can do it in this chair, by the way, for example, you know, if there was a screen working.
But whatever is best for the team and what is easiest and whatever is possible.
Meditation.
I tried meditating once, did nothing, so I gave it up.
You maniac!
Maybe I'm not doing it as much anymore because I'm praying.
You can stay for the meditation if you want to.
Viva will meditate.
Together, it's for our Awakened Wonder Locals community.
We're streaming right now on Rumble, or maybe you're watching this on demand.
Part of what our offering on Locals is we read, we have a book club where we read, at the moment we're reading Mere Christianity, which has been really helpful in me understanding that...
I was religious all along, and Christiana is the best answer for me personally.
We meditate every week together.
We do a whole bunch of stuff over on Locals.
It's very cool.
What do you do for your Locals community?
We have Locals after parties, chat.
We have a ton of exclusive content.
Robert Barnes does his Bourbon with Barnes.
Which means he has a bourbon.
I don't actually think he drinks the bourbon, but it's called Bourbon with Barnes.
I don't think he drinks that all that much.
What's he doing a bourbon for?
Eh, you know, it was an alliteration.
It worked well.
That can't be the guiding principle, alliteration.
No, we are.
I'm all with Russell.
I was going to do vodka with Viva, but then also framing things around alcohol is not a necessarily good fit.
It's not the answer.
It's not a good fit for everybody.
No, but that's interesting.
So breaking in terms of breaking in a horse, I've never actually thought about that.
Become obedient to a higher principle.
You think about it, like, you know, of course we're all familiar with, you know, religion is the opium of the masses, and certainly, like, any institution can be deployed.
The amazing thing is, like, religion is the opium of the masses wasn't, I don't think in the full context, is a negative.
I think it was...
Need a bit of opium.
Helps you relax.
No, I have to go get the full context.
I remember...
Oh, God, I feel better!
I remember it wasn't actually in context as negative as it has since been used to say, like, religion is for the weak type thing.
Because I don't believe it.
I just...
First of all, meditation and group stuff, I'm not good with that.
I never like group sports.
I don't like exercising with other people.
Other people's consciousness gets in the way of my own thoughts.
Yeah, I'm easily distracted.
You've got ADHD probably.
I've been told that, but I've never been diagnosed.
Whatever it is, you're easily distracted.
Maybe there's not a label for it, but nevertheless, yeah, I'm easily distracted.
The idea of the rebirth, and I was following your tweets after the baptism in the river.
I don't remember what river it was.
Thames.
Thames.
Okay, this is something I struggle with.
It's a very personal question, and I know you've talked about it in the books, but you have a history where you've done things that you have to apologize, repent for, atone for in as much as it would not cause any additional pain for the people who have been...
That's a 12-step principle.
To make amends to people you've harmed unless to do so would injure them or others.
How do you go about the self-forgiveness part?
For someone who I still cringe about things that I've done as a teenager, how do you get to the point of actual meaningful self-forgiveness?
You don't forgive yourself.
Jesus Christ forgives you.
Jesus Christ died for you.
This is why it is helpful to appreciate that God comes to earth in the form of a man, experiences what it is to be human, the anguish and the agony and the terror and the dread and the compromise and the yearning and the longing and the pain and the agony, and then dies for us.
Dies in a pact that we may be cleansed and redeemed, that our kind finally has a new covenant.
I can't forgive myself.
How can I forgive myself?
But I am forgiven by God.
I am told that I am forgiven by God.
People find it hard, I think, of course, understandably, to recognize a transcendent covenant that is extraneous to the limitations of our human modes of understanding, of course.
Because this is beyond human.
This is a personal relationship with God.
Why is there something missing?
Why is life meaningless?
Why do we feel like life should be meaningful?
All of these questions can be addressed and answered.
All of these wounds can be remedied.
I am learning, because this is new, I'm only in month one of Christianity here now, through a relationship with Christ.
Of course you cringe about things that you did when you were a teenager.
You're evolving and growing all the time.
You can't forgive yourself any more than you can heal yourself.
But you can be forgiven and you can be healed.
Like I said to you earlier in our conversation, I'm a slow learner, not because I'm an idiot, but because of the opposite, probably, because I sort of think I can solve stuff, and if I do this and I move this, I feel like I can figure stuff out, but you can't figure it out.
When you were on Rogan, this is one question.
You'll tell me if this moment of the Rogan interview stuck with you and as much as it stuck with me, where some people refer to Rogan, I think he referred to himself as potentially a functioning user.
When someone who is a functioning user, and during that interview where he suggested, you know, like, you're older, you're more mature now, when you were talking about psychedelics, is the idea, when he proposes, that maybe you're older, more mature, you're in more control, you could deal with these things.
Is that, what was your internal response when Rogan proposed that, having not had the same life experience that you had with addiction?
Well, you know, like I said, there is no sort of moral reason why.
Other people shouldn't take drugs or psychedelics, but there do appear to be practical reasons why I shouldn't take drugs and psychedelics, and I have conducted some quite significant research in that area, and the results have been that I caused...
problems for myself and others when I take drugs and it doesn't even do the thing that it's supposed to do.
Now, people will say that plant medicine is different and it's a sort of a shamanic But these are experiences that are granted to us.
Through endeavor and surrender, not through chemical induction.
Now, there are other cultures that have sanctified and sacralized the process of plant medicine, and I don't have an opinion on what those cultures do or what other individuals do, but I do have an opinion on what I do, and what I do is I obey.
I try to obey, and I've been told that I do not do that, so I obey.
My theory is that, like, have you seen the horror movie Talk to Her?
No.
Yeah, I don't like watching horror movies and I haven't seen it.
No, I'm too easily spooked.
I'm scared now.
No, this is, as far as I'm concerned, it's an analogy for doing, like, you know, mind-altering drugs and it opens a gate that you never close.
And I appreciate some people think it's a spiritual mind-opening experience.
My wife is a neuroscientist.
Yes, I've got to give you a colouring book before this is over.
Marion, I almost forgot.
My wife's a neuroscientist.
I've got to give you colouring books.
You'll know what you'll understand.
It's not a person who designs colouring books.
No, it's a brain colouring book.
It's a brain colouring book.
My colour in the brain.
The hippocampus.
The limbic system.
It'll be great for your kids.
Porticle.
Basically.
You'll see it.
Cerebellum.
I know more brain words.
Well, those are good ones.
The prefrontal cortex.
The one that the neurotransmitters.
Wankhole.
Is that part of the brain?
I don't know.
I think there's a part of the brain that controls that.
Russell, I love that.
It's an amazing transformation.
First of all, where do you...
Planning in 10 years?
It's the most impossible question to answer.
I don't know.
I don't know what's going to happen to me after this.
I'm not even convinced there is going to be a meditation on locals.
Are you?
What's going to happen?
Where's it going to be?
Where will I sit?
What will I say?
What will I do?
Look, this is what I pray for.
This is what's really happening.
This is what these spaces are about.
People can communicate now.
People can form new alliances now.
The establishment is in serious trouble.
Serious trouble.
The elites are in serious trouble.
They recognize that.
New elites have not yet emerged to understand how to control information and centralize authority.
New elites are emerging, though, but will understand how to do that.
In the interim, if we don't create a genuinely inclusive populist movement, when I say inclusive, I mean...
Drop all that shit about what's different about people.
Drop it.
Who cares?
Who cares?
You are going to be confronted with significant...
I mean, I don't know how to pluralize, Goliath.
Goliaths!
Like, there are some serious, powerful forces in Canada, in the United States of America, but perhaps more significantly, globally.
If we do not organize to oppose censorship, if we do not organize to oppose centralized control...
In the next five to ten years, there'll be a series, I suppose, of crises that are used to legitimise further authority and will ultimately be technologically lobotomised so that feudalism and despotism of a new variety, with new tools, with new weapons, a new power is exerted upon us all.
And we can oppose that, I believe, not using human power, but by using the power of God, and in my case, the power of Jesus Christ.
We must try to find...
Ways to unify in a decentralized way against these monopolies and monoliths that seek to control us.
And then perhaps God's kingdom will come to earth as prophesied.
One gossipy question.
Are you contemplating potentially moving to the states?
Yeah.
Okay.
Oh, good answer.
Are you looking at the free state of Florida in particular?
By God's grace.
It's a beautiful...
I mean, it's a flat, hot, humid, geographically relatively boring, but you see manatees in the ocean, you've got pelicans and birds.
There's not enough hills or something.
There's no hills.
But you've got Alligator Alley where you started off.
Oh, yeah.
Did you see any alligators down that alley?
Not today.
Once I did as I'm driving, but I was fishing yesterday and alligators were literally eating our catch as we pull them up if we don't pull them up fast enough.
Do you feel like you want to touch an alligator?
They look cute and they look like...
Puppy dogs.
People call them swamp puppies.
They look nice, but they're robots.
If something falls in the water, they reflexively snap and they'll chomp it.
If it's a human, a dog, or a fish.
They don't care.
They're programmed like God's toys.
What I didn't like is that they would clamp down on you.
And then roll.
And then they're just swinging themselves around and they're breaking your arm and everything.
Oh yeah, no, it's called the death roll and then they drag you under the water to drown you so that they can more easily eat you.
And how are you going to negotiate with that?
Hey, don't do a death roll.
I want to live.
Not that I've been looking into it because my chat thinks I'm going to get into trouble with an alligator one day.
Are you saying that put your finger up its arse?
There's always that.
Put your finger up its butt!
No, in the eyeballs.
You grab it and you're supposed to roll with it so that it doesn't actually...
You've got to roll with it, like Oasis.
Yeah.
Just roll with it.
You like Oasis?
Who doesn't?
We are kindred spirits.
Russell.
Hold on to it and roll with it.
It's got your limb in its jaws.
Like that?
And then you literally roll with it and then hopefully it realizes you're not a beautiful, fatty fish and it's going to leave your bone.
Oh, this isn't a fish.
Fish don't hold back onto me.
No.
He'll say, what is this big bone?
I'm not interested in bones.
I'm interested in flesh and hopefully lets you go.
Hopefully.
Hopefully.
So you grab it like that.
You just grab it and then roll with it.
That's what I'm told, is you're supposed to roll with the death roll so that it becomes a fun roll and not a death roll.
Right, death, yeah, and then we'll be reborn and resurrected after a roll with the alligator.
Maybe our whole life is a roll with an alligator, a roll with the limbic system, a roll with the prehistoric alligator mind.
I had a thought yesterday.
I was on a podcast with Luke Rudkowski, another guy in the sphere in which we operate, and I was driving down and thinking, you know, I'm thinking about God and thinking about the...
Formation of the universe.
Which one is more absurd?
That it was created out of a moment of singularity or that it always existed?
And then I had the third option.
Maybe it doesn't exist at all.
And then I realized, oh, maybe the simulation theories are a little bit more plausible in that it either always existed, which makes no sense.
It either came from nothing or it makes no sense.
Or it doesn't exist, which also makes no sense.
So the reality...
No, none.
Which one was it in?
Were you talking about the universe?
Everything that you know, despite the...
Light years and billions of light years of the cosmos, everything that we know and digest occurs in between our ears and eyes, and that's where the universe is.
And it's wild.
As far as we know, that's it.
That's all we know.
Now, I want to ask you, this is a question I've always had for people who've had a born-again religious experience.
Yeah.
When people speak of Jesus Christ, and this is not supposed to be a theological podcast, but I guess it's going to be.
In your mind, is he an embodiment of the principles or is it a literal, physical Jesus Christ?
The scripture is Jesus Christ was born, came here, lived, ministered, died, was resurrected, tells us that the Holy Spirit will be with us and that Jesus Christ will return and this will be when heaven comes down to earth.
This is what we are told.
These are the principles of Christianity.
Look, you can approach this from a Jungian or Campbellian or a whole variety of ways.
You can post-structure it.
You can culturally critique it.
You can say, oh, it's a bit like Osiris or it's a bit like Alexander the Great.
But as a Christian, I believe that Jesus Christ is here now, that I'm in a living relationship with Jesus Christ and that this is what will transform me, that I have myself and nothing, but I will be transformed with this relationship with Christ.
And since the baptism, which was of no choice of my own, it's like it's Bear Grylls.
When I get baptised, it's by the SAS.
It was actually by a minister, but Begrills held onto my arm, and my other mate, Joe, he held on.
They ducked me backwards into the old Father Thames, into that swampy little stream.
And so that is what I believe.
That is what I believe, and that is the offering, the transcendence of death, the resurrection of the body, the communion of saints, the Holy Spirit, the forgiveness of sins.
It sort of lists what...
What the offering is for you.
And then you sort of feel it.
You feel it out.
And you realize, what are you doing otherwise?
What are your other beliefs?
What is it you're so certain of?
What is your data set?
What is it based on?
And who benefits from it?
Because the church that interests me is a pretty radical and revolutionary one that promises an alternative kingdom and promises a meaningful opposition to corruption.
Let me ask you one question.
It's the polar opposite of what I just asked you now.
It's my difficulty now having gone through my intellectual or whatever transformation.
I look back at the movies that I loved and I can't watch them anymore.
I can't watch Taxi Driver.
I can't watch...
Well, knowing that...
What's her face?
The girl, the 12-year-old girl.
Jodie Foster was actually 12 in that movie.
And then knowing what they...
So what she went through is some terrible torment.
For the art and, you know, Roman plans.
That wasn't right.
I've come to the realization that Hollywood is in fact a cesspool of demonic evil.
And I can't watch the movies anymore.
But then when I went back to rewatch Get Him to the Greek, this was before this was even scheduled.
And I'm like, oh, P. Diddy's in this movie.
Oh, P. Diddy's making some terrible jokes.
Oh, given what just happened in the news, all of these truth and jest jokes might make a lot more sense.
Back in the day, your experience with P. Diddy, and I hate to do the gossipy Hollywood crap, was, I mean, I...
Do not believe that people did not know what was going on.
And now the more the people dive into it, the more they reveal everyone knew everything back in the day.
What was your experience with P. Diddy like?
He was in like a trailer on the set.
He was world friendly.
I went to Vegas on a private jet with Diddy.
Jay-Z was there.
And I remember I slept on my own in a hotel room in Vegas that night.
And there's few things that are more depressing than that, let me tell you.
This is post, this is clean life now for you.
Oh, yeah.
I've been in recovery maybe 10 years.
And I will, you know, like, look, as they say, hindsight is 20-20.
But I don't remember anything being particularly remarkable or unusual.
I also went to that white party that he does, you know, like, you know, like he does a big...
Why is it called the White Party?
Only white people.
You wear white clothes to the party.
That's the worst idea ever.
It seems like the allegations are that there were some significantly distinct parties taking place.
Again, it was just, in a sense, no more glamorous or exciting or perfidious or peculiar than any of the other.
For me, Well, you know, in Hollywood, I never sort of...
I was doing my own thing.
I'd like just, you know, I'm famous now.
Women want to have sex with me.
Let's go.
That's the experience I was having.
And then as with drugs and with all excess, oh, this is pretty empty and hollow.
You know, so...
Yeah, obviously when that stuff was in the news about Diddy, but remember, I've been attacked and hit with all sorts of allegations.
Well, that was another thing.
I mean, you went from being the darling to being the demon.
I mean, as far as the left is concerned, being accused of racism, everything.
What was the one, the hit piece, where they said creators like Russell Brand go from YouTube and then direct their traffic over to Rumble where they talk racist conspiracy theories?
Was that, I want to say, I forget who it was.
New York Times, Times, Atlantic, they were everywhere.
We'll end it on this, but has that been upsetting or liberating?
Probably both.
I mean, probably all of the things that are traumatic to go through.
In some senses, we have to find what God's purpose is.
In a way, the more that you can be exposed to your attachments, to your false idols, to your requirements, the better it is.
I'm very fortunate and privileged in so much as I've come from a background where those things seemed incredibly exciting and desirable.
I've lived within them and felt their mundanity and their emptiness.
I have now blessedly moved through these environments, perhaps in a sane and sensible world.
Kids like me would be identified early on and told, the material world is not for you.
You are going to have to go on a spiritual quest.
Here is some monastery.
Here are some vows.
Here are some solutions.
But what are you offered?
Worldly solutions.
Pleasure, excitement, glamour.
Glamour don't only mean glistening things.
Glamourisation is what vampires do to their victims, set about them with offerings and promises and incredible allure.
The culture does this to us.
The culture makes many...
Pledges and promises.
Perhaps those among us that have a certain brightness or perhaps a certain appetite are those that are picked off and assigned roles within institutions like Hollywood.
And I'm not suggesting that this is a sort of a conspiracy that's constructed on a minute level, more a sort of a magnetic pathway that will hoover up into it, vacuum up into it.
Hoover's a brand name.
Hoover up into it.
All those that have that kind of polarity, that have that kind of tendency.
So yes, the traumas of being assaulted in media, being attacked, being condemned by having the kind of haplessness and selfishness that...
Perhaps I'm not alone among famous men in practicing metastasized and amplified and alchemized most negatively into the most heinous criminality.
There is but one more tribulation, just one more pathway, one more opportunity for growth, one more opportunity to recognize there is nothing here for us.
All things through Jesus Christ.
All things through God.
This, at least, is the pathway that I am blessed to walk.
There will be no better way to end it than that.
And not that anybody needs me to tell...
Russell, tell everybody where they can find you, although they already know where to find you.
Russell Brand channel on Rumble and on Locals.
We do meditations.
And in fact, it's only the fact that I'm doing a meditation right now that means that this conversation is ending.
So if you're into that sort of thing, it'll be free on Locals for about five minutes and then it'll be available for our supporters.
And you're very welcome to join me, Viva.
And thank you for the conversation.
Thank you.
I might have to drive back, but I like it.
Don Alligator Alley.
I'm going to do Don Alligator Alley this afternoon.
And I like the fact that we're going to have stuff to do for a part two.
So we will do this again.
But Russell, thank you very much.
It's been fantastic.
It was a lovely conversation.
Thank you.
Locals, everybody.
I'll see you later.
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