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Dec. 2, 2023 - Viva & Barnes
01:18:29
Interview with Shanna Carroll - Looking for Answers for the Death of Her Daughter
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What Gavin Newsom does in California is kowtow to the teachers' union.
Whatever they tell him to do, he does.
He will never block the teachers' union.
That's why the kids were locked out of school for so long.
Joe Biden is in the pocket of the teachers union and so is Kamala Harris.
That's why they fought school opening when he came in there.
When they had that in there.
Biden came into office and he brought in the teachers union to be able to do all these different things to try to keep the school.
This is apropos nothing.
I don't even know if that's the right expression.
I just wanted to point out one thing because I'm a master body language reader.
First of all, oh my goodness, Gavin Newsom white knighting for Kamala Harris.
Notice he didn't say you call Joe Biden Mr. President.
He only defended the weak woman who he thinks needs his defense, the white knight.
But look how he says, shame on you, DeSantis, while pointing at himself.
Joe Biden.
Shame on you, and he points at himself.
And by the way, it's not Kamala Harris.
Shame on you.
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Shame on you.
Shame on you.
All right, that's it.
It was a terrible debate.
It was not worth watching.
I tuned in and out, and then I got absolutely fed up.
But I wanted to start with something that we could have, I don't know, mild distraction about, given the subject matter of tonight's stream.
I hate Gavin Newsom.
Not as much as Justin Trudeau.
Not as much as Christus Freeland.
But he's also...
Yeah, whatever.
Pathological liar.
Politician.
Goes with the game.
Okay.
It's Saturday.
This is...
This is like a story...
I'm going to preface all of this.
Preface this by saying that this is an interview with a woman whose daughter passed away and there's thus far...
See, no definitive answer whatsoever.
This is not a similar situation to the stage of Answers for Sean, my interview with Dan Hartman, who had more info at the time of his coming forward.
This is a woman who is actually, we're at a stage where doesn't know, but we all have certain questions that are...
Relatively obvious under the circumstances.
Her daughter passed away three weeks, give or take, after the second Pfizer jab.
And this is not an interview to prove causality whatsoever.
This is to hear her story because I don't think many people have heard about it.
And she doesn't know where to go, I don't think.
Doesn't know, I think, wants answers.
And has come to the point now where being silent and...
Waiting for answers to come to you no longer is the option.
So many of you will not have heard this story.
She was on Jason Levine, who's another Canadian independent journalist, if we're calling ourselves that, but just people who are willing to talk and hear and listen.
Shanna Carroll, if you don't know who she is, you'll know who she is by the end of this.
And again, this is not a statement of an interview.
This is a fact-finding question of an interview and to see where this goes, because I think we all know where it should go at the very least in terms of questions, not necessarily in terms of answers.
But with that preface, Shanna, I'm going to bring you in now in three, two, one.
Shana, how are you doing?
How's everything going?
Good.
It's Shauna, by the way.
Shauna, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
That's okay.
My whole life.
That's okay.
Shauna, so I gave something of a 30,000-foot overview.
But just let us know who you are.
I'm going to ask you every question under the sun.
If there's stuff you don't want to talk about, you'll let me know.
And for all the rest, I'm going to ask every question under the sun.
But the 30,000-foot overview summary, who are you and what brings you here?
Well, we're just normal people and just, you know, living in Michigan, doing our thing.
And my daughter was picked to go on a trip that changed our lives forever.
Born and raised in Michigan?
Yeah.
Born and raised in Michigan.
I noticed the accent.
It's almost a Canadian accent.
It's in between Fargo, Minnesota and Canadian.
That's what the Michigan accent is.
Well, I'm not that high.
I'm not that high up by the U-verse.
I'm more Detroit.
I'm closer to Canada, like Windsor.
Okay, cool.
You have three kids.
I have four.
Four?
Well, Auburn.
And so Auburn, I mean, this is, everyone knows where we're going with this, is Auburn passed away and the circumstances are what need to be delved into and investigated in every way possible.
So tell us what happened.
How old was Auburn at the time?
What were the circumstances that led up to all of this and the entire story?
So she went to an alternative school that had turned into an academy.
And she was doing really well because she has high anxiety, ADHD, but she, you know, she's kind of a lazy teenager, but she wasn't like a, she was on a good path.
She wasn't like, you know.
Partying or anything.
She was a homebody.
She just needed a smaller group of students.
So we put her in Starkweather.
She was thriving.
She was being paid, actually, for her good grades through the academy.
They would, like, do incentives for that, so it would really boost them up.
But her attitude was always very kind, accepting, loving, friends with everybody.
And so...
This group that gets involved with the school and a lot of the schools around from all over the states, across the states, in Europe, everywhere, it's called the Odd Fellows.
And they do a group thing where they pick, I think it's like 500 students, and they'll travel somewhere.
In 2018, they went to Australia, all over there.
The year Auburn went was the year they had just started back up again since quarantine and everything.
And she was picked to go to Philadelphia, Boston, New York, Toronto, and then back down.
I believe Washington, D.C. was the last place they were going to go.
And it started July 19th to the 22nd.
She had to be back.
2021, right?
2022.
2022.
So now you're in Michigan.
You're in Michigan with Gretchen Whitmer.
There's a word for her and I forget what it is, but it's not a bad word.
I don't know, a tyrant.
You're in Gretchen Whitmer's Michigan, so you had it not quite as bad as Canadians, but bad nonetheless.
What was COVID like with all your kids?
Well, we're real big homebodies and we love to be home with each other.
I think for the teenagers, my son was 19 at the time.
Auburn was.
15, 16, they were kind of sick of being inside all the time, but we're homebodies, so we like to be at home.
So we were okay with it.
And my husband is a locksmith, so he was a travel locksmith, and he did a lot of vacant homes.
So he continued to work through it.
None of us got sick, none of us got COVID that whole time.
Did Michigan ever go on curfew, that type of lockdown, or never quite that radical?
We were on lockdown normal, but it wasn't as bad as I want to say people made it sound.
I feel like, I mean, we were in a lot of congregate, a lot of places, but I never saw people actually getting tickets or fines.
It was just, I think I feel it's how everyone was.
And as a family, if I may ask the personal question, like no intrinsic, no philosophy about...
Being anti-vaccine or anything at large?
There's no question of principle in any of this?
Well, me as a person, my kids are vaccinated.
Also, in my state, in 2014, they switched to law where parents could decide if they wanted to vaccinate their children for school or not.
It's not mandatory to be vaccinated anymore.
You just have to go down to the medical health.
You have to watch some videos, pay $30.
That's why we knew how to quarantine because we learned all about that in 2017 when my kids couldn't get vaccinated due to the doctors were overbooked by the time they started school.
So we had 30 days, so we just had to do that.
So we learned how to coronate.
Quarantine at home.
But we don't do flu vaccines.
We don't do the HPV.
We don't do shingles.
So I didn't feel the need to do a COVID vaccine at all, really.
Because like I said, we hadn't had COVID.
We had been out and about.
My husband works out of the house.
Never brought it home.
We just never got sick.
COVID comes around, was their school canceled?
And another question, they never implemented any vaccine passport in Michigan?
No.
Nope, not here.
We didn't have any vaccine passports.
We didn't have, I mean, you had the people forcing the vaccine, but you didn't, you know, like people around you, but you didn't have like, you know, can't get in here.
Concerts were a thing.
I do remember that early on.
Which I had tickets for.
And I was like, I'm going to wait till the last minute.
If I have to wear a mask and vaccine up, I'm just not going to go.
And they lifted it like a week before.
So I feel like they lifted it pretty early on.
It's one of the memories that I'll always have ingrained was this ad in Quebec where it said, it was little Timmy or little Jimmy who wanted to go to the concert.
He saved up his money.
He got his ticket.
And then you hear a door slam.
He couldn't go because he wasn't vaccinated.
Get vaccinated.
It was the most psychotic stuff you'd ever imagined.
It was like that year, too.
And Auburn, her sister, my middle daughter, there goes Mark, Auburn, and then Sophia.
And she went to Olivia Rodrigo concert where they were going to require vaccines.
And I remember we were all joking about making a fake vaccine or card.
And Auburn was not, she was not having it.
She was like, you can't, you know, because she was into human rights and protecting everybody.
And she really, I don't want to say that she was like brainwashed into it by like peers and people around her, but I feel like she felt that it really was the right thing to do to go on the trip because she had to be vaccinated for the trip.
Okay, so the purpose of the trip was what again?
It was for kids to, like for her, she wanted to be a human rights activist, so they got to go to Ellis Island.
They got to go all through New York.
They sat in, they were supposed to go down to Capitol Building down in Washington.
They saw a play in Toronto.
They were just doing a bunch of stuff with kids that represented their towns and their state.
So it's what the Odd Fellows stand for.
They do things with children, like orphanages back in the day.
They were educating them, doing all these fun things.
So the school chose Auburn and her best friend and I think one other student to go.
And then as part of this, because they're traveling around and crossing borders, they had as a requirement that the kids get the jab.
Yeah, I think Canada was one, New York, and...
Because they didn't need it to fly out.
We didn't need it at the Detroit Air Force, which is international.
It wasn't required.
Just mask up.
But to go into a lot of the buildings in New York, Canada, they had to.
Rage is what this...
The absolute insanity and evil of the insanity.
To get into a building.
So she's going on the trip, and because of the nature of the trip, they say you have to...
Everybody needs to be fully jabbed.
When did she get notified that she was going to go on the trip and by when did she need to be fully jabbed?
We got notified in January just fresh into 2022.
I got the call and, you know, I wanted to cry when she said, you know, they have to be vaccinated because I knew Auburn would be very like, okay, I'll do it.
Because Auburn also, we never really went on a lot of trips.
We didn't go see a lot of things, just life and everything.
But she really wanted to go on the trip.
And I didn't want her to, you know, stay behind, plus her best friend was going, so I really thought it'd be okay.
And I kept telling her, you have to get the vaccine by, I think it was July 1st.
And we waited till the last minute, which was June 28th.
I waited till the last, like, just hoping they'd lift it.
I'd check every day, and they didn't lift it.
And so by the time, so she had to actually have it by June.
Like, 9th or 7th.
So she got her first one June 7th.
And then, as long as she had her first one by June 7th, she was okay.
All right.
And then she ended up getting the second one shortly thereafter.
Yeah, June 28th.
This is where, so setting aside, we know the tragedy that this ends in.
The question that I had when we spoke over the phone is, that's three weeks apart.
Even in Quebec, like, what doctor or what pharmacist was doing that?
And were they allowing it?
And no one said anything at all.
Everyone, you know, had their cards.
No one questioned it.
I wouldn't even have known any of that because, you know, you get your regular vaccines from your doctors and you get your little pamphlet, you know, the DTAP, MMRs, all that.
But with this, everyone keeps saying, yeah, that was so quick and so in between, like there wasn't enough time between.
And something with the way that her batch numbers are the same number, like the same batch.
Well, these are details we're going to get into.
And again, this is asking, just getting the questions and the facts out there.
Three weeks apart, I remember in Quebec, at one point the guidelines were like, I think it was, I want to say three months or at least two months.
And then at one point they just, they reduce it to six weeks.
And I'm like, what do you mean six weeks?
What's the time frame here?
What's the logic?
But three weeks.
Seems not just counterintuitive, it seems medically unsupportable.
I mean, I don't understand how the rationale with such a short period of time, given what it's supposed to do in terms of building immunity, in theory.
Well, every time...
I did have a flu shot when I was pregnant because...
The year that, I think it was SARS or the N1H1 that was really big in my doctor's office.
So I had to get it.
I've never even had the flu, really, that I even know of.
But I do remember, you know, I felt fine.
I didn't feel sick.
You know, I had a sore arm, but I didn't have to have boosters.
That's where I was like, I don't understand these boosters that keep coming out.
I feel like constantly having to get them is not safe.
And she kept saying, Mom, I'm doing research and it's safer.
So she gets one in early June, the second in later June, and then she is off on the trip.
I drop her off at the airport.
I hug her and I cry as I'm saying goodbye because, like I said, my kids don't really leave me like that.
A big fear of mine was, and we would joke about it, was her getting sick or being traded into some human trafficking thing.
We'd laugh.
We'd joke around, which is not funny, but I was like, I'm so anxious to let you go.
I don't want to hear a bad phone call.
As this chaperone was pulling me away, telling me, "Oh, Mom, it's fine." I was like, you know, my heart sank.
And watching her walk in, I just, I didn't feel comfortable.
Like, a gut instinct was hitting me.
Did she have any response or reaction after the second shot?
And how many days after the second shot did she get on the plane?
She got on the plane July 9th.
Okay.
And so what, like two weeks, week two?
Okay, so there was a good week and a half, two weeks after the second shot before leaving.
Nothing that you noticed in that time frame?
No, she had a physical the week that she left.
She had to also have a physical.
So we had gotten her physical.
She was clear to go.
She always had, you know, her routine physicals and never had any underlying health issues.
And that was another question.
So you mentioned ADHD and other things.
Yeah.
Nothing.
She wasn't medicated.
No.
And she was not medicated for ADHD.
No medication.
Nothing.
So she gets the first shot.
Three weeks later, the second shot.
In the interim, two weeks until she leaves.
No malaise, no sickness that you know of.
Nope.
Gets the checkup before she goes and then off on the plane.
And then what happens?
Sorry.
So then, you know, she sat, or they flew out to Philly.
From Philly, they flew to Boston, I want to say, where they went to the Salem.
They went all over Salem, and then they flew out to Toronto.
And by the 18th was when she messaged me.
And she was feeling fine the whole time.
Not sick, nothing, because we were messaging all day long.
And on the 18th, she messaged me, Mom, I'm sick.
It was 11 o 'clock in the morning, like 11.15.
And we joked.
I said, oh gosh, is it COVID?
Like, I'm really glad we got that vaccine.
You know, I was hoping, you know, you wouldn't even catch it.
Knowing that you can still catch it, but you get a, you know, not as severe cases, so they say.
And so we kept in touch through the whole day.
Her chaperone was supposed to call me.
And then I got a call from her best friend's mom saying, And this was at 7 o 'clock at night now.
Saying Auburn is sleeping on a park bench outside.
All the chaperones in the group is inside eating dinner.
And they left her and Rachel.
Well, Rachel could eat.
But Rachel sat outside with her in Toronto.
So she wasn't by herself.
And she's like laying on a park bench.
Tired.
Probably just feeling crummy.
Because she was saying that she just had a cough.
No fever.
She felt tired.
She had a sore throat.
And that was about it.
No fever at all.
Did she have a fever?
And so when she says, I'm feeling, she calls you up at 11 and says, I got a cold.
Is it like dramatic or is it just, I got a cold?
No.
It was through a text, Mom, I just feel sick, you know?
And I said, well, can you call me?
She said, well, there's a lot of people on the bus right now.
And every time I talk, I would assume it's like, you know, when you go to cough, you just kind of, and she didn't want to have to keep repeating herself to me or something.
So she, She never called me that day.
I got calls from the people around her.
And then at 11.40ish, 45, maybe 11.30, I'd say, the head of the team of the Oddfellas called me and said, he called her Aubrey.
He kept saying, I really liked Aubrey.
She was real sweet.
We're going to test her for COVID.
Another hour later, he calls me back and says, it's COVID.
They're still in Canada at this point.
So I'm like, well, how do I get her home?
Like, how do I come?
We were under the assumption if a kid was sick in the meeting all the parents were in, if they were sick, they would get the kids home.
In this case, they didn't help at all.
We had to drive from Michigan to Niagara Falls and meet them at the border because they didn't want to alert them that she had COVID and be quarantined for 14 days.
Because at that time, in order to enter or leave, if you had...
COVID, you were supposed to quarantine for an extra 14 days.
So they would have to stay in Canada for 14 days if everyone tested positive.
So I had to wait till 9 in the morning to meet her at the border of Niagara Falls and Toronto.
And what does she look like when you see her?
Is it just a regular type looking cold?
Tired.
Yeah, just tired.
Like she'd been traveling.
I mean, she was traveling all over on a bus for a good part of that week.
And they had a huge itinerary.
They were go, go, go, go.
So, you know, she was tired.
She didn't look pale.
She didn't have a fever.
She actually felt kind of chilly to the touch because I kept touching her arm.
She didn't want to sit in the backseat, so we had her in the front of my other Jeep.
And we were all in my, I had a Jeep Renegade at the time, so it was smaller.
None of us had masks on.
We haven't been vaccinated.
None of us caught COVID at all.
In fact, I didn't get COVID until almost.
Three months after she died.
After she passed away, we didn't get COVID at all.
We've never had it at this point.
Same with her.
She had never had it either.
So she's diagnosed with COVID.
You pick her up, you drive her home.
Through the nose test.
The one that went up all the way or just the nasal swab?
I think it was the one that they had purchased.
It wasn't through a doctor's office.
It was the superficial swab.
Knowing what we know about Potential false positives in terms of what it detects.
So they say she's got COVID.
You go pick her up and you drive her home.
And then how does the situation deteriorate?
So it's a six-hour drive there.
So we drove six hours back.
It was about six o 'clock that night when we arrived home.
And it was our three-year-old's birthday on the 19th now.
So now it's the 19th.
She wanted to sing happy birthday with him because her best friend had told us that she really missed her brother, her little brother.
So she wanted to sing happy birthday with us.
And she was like, I'm just really tired from the car ride.
Can I go lay down in my room?
And I said, I haven't been able to clean your room, but yeah, your bed's set up.
Go ahead.
And then we opened up gifts and we put Finn to bed.
And then she came up.
We had some soup together.
I had gotten her a humidifier from her dad's house.
And I think some mucinex.
She wanted some mucinex, she had said, for the nasal drip.
So she didn't take any of that.
She drank a lot of water.
We ate some soup.
We talked about Boston.
And she was like, I think that's all I can eat.
And I said, okay.
It's 11.30 now at night.
And I was like, I am dead tired.
I have been up for like, you know, 30 hours.
I'm so tired.
She's like, well, go lay down.
So I went to bed.
I got up at 11 or 8 the next morning, started cleaning for the birthday party we were going to have.
And she started talking about her friends were making fun of her for her blanket.
And I was kind of thrown back by that.
And I'm like, your friends aren't even here.
And she was like, I know.
I mean, so I could tell either she was lucid dreaming or...
Maybe she was getting loopy from the cough medicine, but she didn't take any.
So I said, well, let's go up to urgent care.
I think we should probably go get looked at.
So she walked to the car, put my son in the car, and she walked in there.
We were talking, and I asked how she felt.
She said, I just feel kind of cold but kind of sweaty at the same time.
And I said, okay.
About five minutes or ten minutes to the emergency room by her house.
And she was like, I don't know if I can walk.
So I said, okay, let me pull up front and I'll get, you know, someone to bring a wheelchair out to bring you in.
They wheel us and they take her straight into triage.
And the nurses, you know, get all her information.
They tell me that, oh, you're probably going to get COVID now too.
And I said, well, I'm a mom, so I can't avoid that.
And we walked into the triage with Auburn.
They put the oxygen thing on her finger.
The blood pressure cuff on, and nothing registered.
It was beeping red.
They were trying to plug it in, trying to bring in a different machine.
They kept saying it was malfunctioning, but they saw 93 over, and then Finn kind of made some noise, and they just didn't finish what they were saying, or I didn't hear it.
Wheeled us out to the waiting room and said, we'll call you back when we're ready.
And I said, okay.
And this is one of them.
When I said at the beginning, there's no definitive statements being made here because there might be medical malpractice in a number of areas.
Did they ask anything about vaccination status when she came in?
No.
I stated that she was vaccinated but that she tested for COVID last night or the night before, late last night on the 18th.
And that's when they were like, well, you're probably going to get COVID now and didn't.
I'm not even sure if they put that in her file at the ER.
I did get a copy of her file, but the lawyers still have it, which we're in the process of getting this week.
But I don't know if they even put that in there.
So you mentioned the jab, and then you mentioned COVID, and then they say, oh, ears perk up.
Okay, COVID.
So that's it.
Go out and wait in the ER.
We'll call you in.
But by that point, it hadn't hit cataclysmic levels of...
No.
So you go back out into the waiting room.
And then how long do you wait there and what happens after that?
I had to leave about an hour into it.
And her dad met me up there so I could take my four-year-old home.
He's really rambunctious.
I didn't notice anybody that's sick in there.
The people next to me were talking about the lunch they had the other day.
My daughter's over here just tired and just laying there.
Did they call me back yet?
And I'm like, no.
And my son's running all over the place.
So he meets me up there.
I take him home.
And I'm, you know, cleaning up a little bit, getting ready still for the party.
And because I had absolutely no idea the events that were coming.
So he's like, no, they haven't called her back yet.
So I said, okay, call me when they do.
It had now been about four or five hours.
And my phone was on silent.
Again, not expecting emergencies.
And then my...
My 13-year-old pops her head out and says, you need to call Adam.
Adam's trying to get a hold of you.
Who's Adam?
My husband.
Okay.
Her stepdad.
So I get my phone.
I have missed calls from my oldest son, my ex, Adam.
So I call Anthony, Auburn's dad.
I call him right away, and he's hysterical.
He can't talk, so I just grab anything, my shoes, and I yell to Sophia, I'll be right back.
Watch the house.
Watch Finn.
I have to go.
Get in the car.
I can almost feel now.
My hands were numb.
I was begging him, please don't tell me.
He said, Auburn's not breathing.
I immediately just say, I'm on my way.
I'm on my way.
I call my best friend.
She heads over to sit with the kids because my son, who couldn't get a hold of me, thought that his sister was at home dying.
Because her dad had called him.
He called 911, who shows up at my house, and then tells my 13-year-old that her sister is dead.
So Sophie has no idea what's going on, and we're still, I'm on the way to the hospital.
I just missed the ambulance.
So I get to the hospital, and I go back, and she's not hooked up to machines or anything, but she's not, she's like, I believe in a medical induced coma.
They had to take her back to get a CAT scan at that point.
So I asked him, what happened?
I'm in shock.
And he said, she stood up and said, did they call me back yet?
And collapsed.
And was gone.
Completely gone.
He had to race over and scoop her up.
He thought maybe she had passed out.
He said.
And then I pulled her mask down.
And she was blue.
Her lips were blue.
Her eyes rolled back in her head.
Because I was asking, Robin, you've got to help me lift you up.
Lift your legs.
And then another nurse was coming down the other way.
Scooped her up in the chair.
And then that's where we were.
This is after she had been in the waiting room for four to five hours.
Yes.
No one had checked on them.
And this happened in the waiting room.
Yes.
In the waiting room.
And so she collapses.
Your ex takes down the mask.
Her lips are blue.
Her eyes roll back.
When do you find out that she had had a heart attack?
Around...
There was like a priest there.
So that was panicking me.
So then Anthony had told me that he said she had had her first heart attack at that point.
Then they had to find a bed for her to be airlifted to the hospital.
She was either going to go to U of M or the Children's in downtown Detroit, which we wanted her to go downtown.
It's just a really good hospital.
So when the Panda 1 is what they call the helicopter, they came in.
I start looking over Auburn's sheets and asking, like, why does she have so much fentanyl?
Why were they giving her?
And I'm like, I got here maybe an hour ago.
Like, it's just been in and out and in and out.
And I can't be here sometimes and we have to leave.
So, like, they didn't want us in the room at some points.
But they didn't understand the medications they were giving her.
She had to have Narcam as well a couple times due to the fentanyl, I think, intake.
And then that was around the time they had to give her a CAT scan.
So she has a heart attack or she collapses before anyone has administered anything.
It's not like they gave her a medication and she had some sort of reaction to it.
No.
And after she collapses, they start administering CPR.
Do they defibrillate her?
Yes.
Were you there?
I was not there.
My ex was there and he said, yes, they did.
They had to literally bring her heart back.
Okay.
And they got a pulse.
When I was on my phone pulling out of my driveway, I remember a cop sits and watches traffic directly across from me, and I remember looking at him right when he said they got her pulse back, a faint pulse.
And that's when I hung up and just, like, peeled out of my driveway.
I don't remember the drive there, but...
So they defibrillated her, they get a faint pulse back.
Why...
The fentanyl did not...
There's no possibility fentanyl predated or preceded any of this.
No.
They didn't give her that.
I don't know.
We don't know what that...
It was just in the paperwork with fentanyl or on Narcan.
And I don't know why you'd give Narcan either.
You'd give Narcan to combat an overdose of fentanyl.
Right.
Or I believe also with morphine or whatever you use it for.
I do know that they do bring it back from ODing people on things.
So she has what is now definitively a heart attack if they use the defib and they bring her back.
They then get her airlifted somewhere, and I know she has two more heart attacks on the helicopter.
Yeah, in the 10-minute flight to Detroit.
And I did feel so much more relieved that she was in their care because they were on it.
They were re-hooking her, you know, like, what is this?
She needs this.
She's going to need this.
They were getting stuff from them, like, give me this.
We need that.
I had the video of her.
It was seven minutes loading her into the helicopter.
So the whole procedure from the hospital to the helicopter and off is about maybe 30 minutes.
And she has two more heart attacks on the helicopter on the way over.
Yeah, on the way to Children's.
And then this is on July 19th still, or are we at the 20th?
This is now the 20th.
All right.
And two more heart attacks.
How do they bring her back, or what do they do in response to the two heart attacks?
I believe the fibrillator again.
They had to shock her back.
Had to bring her back.
Both times.
They may not have been as severe because it's all in her paperwork.
The Panda 1 and Panda 2, really, once they drop the patient off at the hospital, I think they just leave.
But when the doctors fill this in on everything, when I got there, she'd have been placed on ECMO.
What is that?
That puts oxygen back into your blood.
So they take your blood.
It's usually used in, like NICUs, usually use them.
I know a lot of hospitals do use them, but over at Children's, they had a fly-in staff from all over the country to work the ECMO machine because it's very, not a lot of people run them.
So ECMO is to re-oxygenate the blood and pump it back into her, and they were doing this because, from what I understand, her limbs were...
Going necrotic, basically?
They were.
When I showed one of her nurses at the Children's Hospital, the video of her at urgent care that I have, it's about six seconds.
I just wanted to show her dad, you know, this is how she's breathing.
I don't know if it's because she's coughing or because she's struggling.
She's not saying that she's struggling.
The nurse said, you can see her fingertips are blue.
Like, as a nurse, I noticed that.
I see that she has a tint of blue.
And it wasn't until then that I, now you can see that she is a hazy blue.
Did anybody offer any plausible explanation or even any explanation as to why her hands would be going blue?
I mean, I can think, obviously, heart not beating, limbs go blue, there's no oxygen circulating.
But did they offer any other potential explanation?
They just said it's because when she had her heart attack, she was pretty much...
Dead.
And they brought her back.
And due to that time lapse of heart beating or her heart stopping and then beating again, she lost the oxygen in her blood.
And now they had to filter it all out and pump it back in with oxygen.
Is she conscious at this point?
No.
She did not.
She didn't wake up at all.
The last thing I said to her was I kissed her on her cheek and I said, text me.
I love you.
Dad's right here.
And I'll see you later.
And then what happens over the next two days?
The next two days, she progressively just gets worse every day.
It's just bad news.
The doctors were, you know, we're going to try this.
The infectious disease doctors, nobody knew.
They said, I've never seen COVID do this.
We don't know.
We don't know what's going on with her.
She had a CAT scan, so she wasn't brain dead or anything.
She had rapid eye movement.
Occasionally she would open her eyes.
But again, you know, she had the ECMO and she had tubes in her mouth.
She wasn't on a vent that was, it was more so the ECMO.
Her organs were shutting down.
We had to, the first week and a half, we were discussing amputations due to the loss, and they would mark it.
But because the ECMO, she had to be on blood thinners.
And due to the blood thinners and the infection she was getting, they couldn't amputate until things started to get better.
So we had to wait and watch as it just...
She gets to the hospital.
She's waiting in the ER for four or five, whatever, five hours.
That's where she collapses, which they identify as the first heart attack.
By the time she gets on the helicopter, they've now administered fentanyl and Narcan.
And what other drugs that you know of?
Acetemiophane.
Because when we got her records, I had to take them straight to the lawyers.
Our lawyers were very aggressive.
I kept saying, well, I have to go to the hospital.
I have to set this up.
They didn't care.
So my ex got the hospital records from the hospital, which took like two hours to download.
I went to the urgent care.
You know, they make it sound like I have to go in there as like a spy.
You know, like, oh, don't say this.
Don't do this.
So I'm anxious.
I finally get the records within like five minutes.
I'm like, that wasn't bad.
And we raced them right over.
I really didn't get a chance to look through all of them.
I did see acetaminophen, ibuprofen.
A lot of red writing, like printing.
That was as a result of her oxygen levels.
It was like red, indicated red.
And it's a medical term that I didn't quite know, so her lawyers said, pass them over.
I'll ask you when the lawyers get involved in a second.
When do the lawyers get involved?
They got involved.
Yes, before Auburn was passed away.
They got involved two weeks before our local news channel wanted to do a story on Auburn after her GoFundMe page was getting a lot of attention.
And then our lawyer said, don't do that.
Don't go public.
Don't say anything.
I think people might not know.
Before, I guess the term is pulled up, you know, you took her off life support, I guess, is the way that it happens after two weeks of this.
Or was it closer to three weeks?
She was in the hospital from July 20th to August 6th.
July 20th to August 6th.
So I think it was like 20 days.
Like 21 days.
And the GoFundMe, you start because you need to pay these legal bills, which are, you have a, not legal bills, I'm sorry, medical bills.
Our medical bills.
We weren't worried about the medical bills at that time.
We were worried about our house payment.
We all have car payments.
No one could work.
I have my children and then her dad would stay at the hospital with her so he couldn't work at all.
He stayed there 24 /7 with her because of my other...
Our daughter and then my youngest son.
And my daughter developed extreme panic.
So the first night we got home, she had a headache and came in my room and was like, I don't know if I can breathe.
So she's panicking every time she's sick now.
So I tried to be with her a lot.
But I was up at the hospital as well a ton, too.
My cousins were here, my brother, my sister-in-law, my friends all helped with her.
But we didn't...
We didn't work much.
No one could work, really, because someone had to be home.
Because I'm a stay-at-home mom.
And you start the GoFundMe to help with whatever, but it would help with costs.
Now, how was the GoFundMe framed?
Did it mention anything about the jab?
Or was it just, this is what's going on?
Yeah.
My brother set it up for us.
Medical needs, not medical needs, I'm sorry, just for bills, for food at the hospital.
We were told not to state about the vaccine because they didn't want to make it political.
This is the advice coming from your lawyers?
No, just everyone around, a lot of people, outside sources.
You don't want it to feed into one side or another.
The way that my family is, we didn't even expect it to get even big, big for us at least.
So everyone around us already knew that she was vaccinated.
So we also, you know, didn't feel the need at the time to put that in there because everyone kept saying she had COVID.
She had COVID.
And as I'm watching her hands turn black and blue, I've never seen or heard of COVID doing that.
So I was concerned.
And so the news picks up because the Give, Send, Go starts getting traction.
When does...
Does the news eventually stop taking an interest in the story?
Yeah.
I had to tell them that as the advice of our lawyer, not to take the interview.
Okay.
That's what she said.
Oh, sorry.
She said to you at the advice of our lawyer, we can't take the interview.
I don't know.
I had to tell her that.
Like, my lawyer told me.
We hadn't even gotten far into legal anything with this lawyer.
She just started taking our information, our story, at the Starbucks by the hospital.
And your lawyer says don't give an interview to the reporter?
Right, right.
It's interesting.
Is that lawyer still your lawyer in this file, in this case?
No.
Okay.
The lawyer says, don't give the interview.
Does the lawyer ever say, don't mention the jab in this either?
Or was that just a family decision?
They told us when we went in for the meeting, two days after we had to take Auburn off ECMO, we were told not to talk to anybody about it, not to say anything, like a gag order.
We weren't allowed to talk publicly about her vaccine, COVID, the case, anything.
Okay.
Auburn ultimately passes away.
And what do they identify as the cause of death?
COVID.
Does anybody ask a question as to ever having seen COVID do this to anybody?
The nurses, everyone in there was baffled, I will say.
They did the best they could.
They were so great.
I don't feel...
That there was much they could do.
They didn't know.
I don't think they had ever seen that.
That's like a new facility in the hospital.
It's upgraded.
She was put in a room that's used for tuberculosis for COVID where it sucks the air straight out.
It's like a room for infectious diseases, I would say, would go in their children with that.
And they had no idea why any of that was happening to her because of COVID.
And I asked you this when we first spoke, but you didn't notice.
And I only know this from my interview with Dan Hartman.
Troponin tests or D-dimer tests, do they do any tests that they might otherwise do if they had suspected?
They, you know...
No.
I don't think so.
Unless I get her records back, I wouldn't know.
They were told, you know...
Autopsy.
It's COVID death.
You don't really need an autopsy.
But they stated that to us about 10 minutes after we actually got up from saying goodbye to her.
So much was happening in a moment.
Oh, sorry.
No, no.
Explain that.
Ultimately, this is what we were...
You take her off life support.
It's then just a matter of minutes, hours before she passes.
Minutes.
Minutes after she passes.
And so she passes away, and within, you're saying, 10, 15 minutes, they say, you don't really need an autopsy.
It was COVID natural causes.
Everything is so, you know, that moment, it's an unspeakable moment to have to say goodbye to your child like that.
So I remember as I got up, I was brushing her hair back a little bit, and I turned around.
I looked at my ex, and then they said, you know, I just remember I was standing, and they said, you know, it's a COVID death.
We need you to sign some papers.
I don't think an autopsy would show anything different.
You know, and at that time, I remember saying, I don't want her body all chopped up.
Her body is horrible looking.
Like, that's not, like, what she came in as and what she is now.
She's had enough.
They wanted to wait two more days to try another drug on her before I said, like, I can't watch.
She's tired.
Her body's tired.
She's tired.
She's crying in and out of her, you know, dream state.
Like, I'm not doing this anymore for her.
But to me, it's unfathomable that they would not recommend an autopsy.
I understand because a lot of people don't like the even...
It's a horrible...
Horrific thing to even conceive of.
But my understanding is also when a teen dies, under some circumstances, they're required by law unless COVID.
I did hear that from someone, that they thought it was required for anyone under the age of 19 to have autopsies if they were to just...
You know, without, you know, cancer, like a chronic illness or something, if they were just...
No, because, like, this...
How...
Like, there's no...
I'm not casting any aspersions, there's no...
But just from the doctor's perspective, how do they know that it wasn't poisoning or something else?
Like, oh, COVID, rush to that, and not...
Maybe someone slipped or something, and that took a while to kick in.
I mean, like, how even do that when a healthy 17-year-old three weeks earlier goes from healthy to dead in that period of time?
Inconceivable.
What did your lawyers ultimately say about that?
At the time, did you ask your lawyers, should we do an autopsy?
No, they didn't say anything.
They didn't even suggest it before.
Because they kept saying, you know, we...
We were so hopeful, you know, like, if, you know, she does pass away.
Again, this is like three or four days before.
They didn't say anything.
Like, we're going to want an autopsy done.
We're going to want this.
They didn't advise us to talk about it with our doctors.
It was more trying to get our information.
But I feel like the minute we said that she had COVID, it was like, oh, I don't know if we can help you.
I don't know if you've done a due diligence into the initial lawyers to see any potential connections, but that's just very cynical thinking in terms of like...
I mean, sitting in their room, sitting in their waiting room of the lawyer office, some photos that they were with, I could probably see where they did not want to get involved.
Like people that they've represented in the past.
Some big name people.
And I was like, I'm pretty sure that person is.
Pro, you know, this and that person's for this.
Not that I'm political like that, but I do know that, you know, people are very big on what they want to, you know, represent.
It's very interesting.
I do not know the name of the lawyers.
I don't want to know it, and I don't want you to say it now, but you go in there and you see, oh yeah, there's a picture of them and Gretchen Whitmer.
And they say, don't talk about the joke.
Yeah, bigger than that, too.
Bigger than Gretchen Whitmore.
I'll say that the lawyer that we have in Detroit is probably one of the biggest medical malpractice lawyers.
Probably like the Murdaugh's here in Detroit.
Not mixed in with the mafia or anything, but they're well-known and they're huge.
And when they took our case, it was like a branch off of them.
Still the same group.
And I was so excited.
I was like, they get things done.
They're known for it.
And they waited a year.
And three months to tell us in a letter certified that there was nothing they can do.
Auburn was too sick by the time she got to the hospital.
That might be the case.
Why?
I mean, my daughter walked into the urgent care.
I mean, she couldn't walk, but she walked into my car.
If I could have picked her up early on on this one day on the 18th, early, instead of 11 o 'clock at night, I could have been there by 6 o 'clock on the 18th.
Brought her home, midnight, taking her to the open urgent care that didn't close.
You know, it's 24 hours.
I probably could have had a lot more valuable time, like oxygen, you know, put an oxygen tank on her.
So no autopsy.
Do you know if they kept tissue samples, like in Sean Hartman's case, that someone can do some, you know, post-mortem analyses on?
I mean, I don't know if they had to, I don't know if he had to ask for those.
I don't know if they took samples.
They were doing a lot of blood tests on her while she was there, testing her blood, because she ended up with a lot of, like, she ended up with sepsis.
She had MRSA.
She ended up developing MRSA while in there.
So they were taking, you know, testing her blood and everything, and I believe they had to have her blood to test her for COVID at the hospital.
Yeah, the question is, in terms of testing the blood for other things like...
I don't know, clots or the residuals of dissolved clots or anything else that might explain a heart attack in a 17-year-old girl?
Well, I guess it's common with the ECMO machine to have clotting.
It is common when you use the ECMO machine to have clotting.
The ECMO machine can cause clotting?
It causes, and that is why we had to shut the machine down, because it causes clotting.
So someone said, well, they won't be able to determine if it's the clotting from the That or from COVID.
Something else.
Right.
Holy crap, apples.
And so she passes away.
When do you meet with the doctors and lawyers next?
The doctors, we were done with the doctors after we shut the machine off, got all of her stuff out of the room.
The lawyers we connected with, I want to say on August 9th.
Because that's when I was setting up for her funeral and picking out, you know, where we were going to have it.
We met that morning.
And again, it was like more, like, they didn't want us to leave with our phones.
They wanted all of our phone records, phone conversations, just weird stuff.
And I'm like, this is not what, like, I thought we were trying to get facts going.
Like, I don't know why I need my phone records.
Who wanted your phone records?
Our lawyers.
Like, they were like, the guy said, you don't let them leave without.
Giving us their phones.
Like, uploading our conversations.
Everyone watching, we spoke for a good, I don't know, was it like 40 minutes maybe before this?
I wasn't as suspicious of the lawyers until these additional details.
This is sounding like a veritable John Grisham novel or something, because the lawyer's conduct is not normal in as much as you're describing.
And so they, for, I mean, sorry, so your daughter dies now, and...
I'm sorry, it's not...
Someone can tell me that that's natural causes and I'll never believe it.
If it's COVID, well, that's one heck of a...
One anomaly of a teenager dying from COVID, especially in that manner.
But what are your lawyers doing for a year in this file?
I don't know.
I don't know if they were going over her medical records.
They never updated us.
Because I would ask.
My ex would message them.
He was like the spokesperson for the family for them.
He would just say, oh, we're still going through the medical records.
And for a whole year, it was like that.
And people are going to say, well, what the heck are you doing in this?
I mean, you don't look like a particularly litigious person.
And I mean that as the bestest of compliments.
Did you have any intention for the year?
Like, you're a grieving mother.
Perhaps your first thought is not lawsuit, and so you're not even pursuing any angle of a lawsuit or demands.
In the beginning, I was really mad with the organization that took her on the trip because I felt like if someone's children were in my care and someone was sick, I would do everything I can at that moment to get that child home to their parents.
I wouldn't wait it out.
Check with this part of the group or check with that chaperone.
I would be calling the parents immediately.
That is not the case.
They did nothing like that.
I was left in the dark for pretty much that whole day.
I feel like we could have been able to pick her up if they would have told us if he would have called me and tested her early in the day instead of at 11 at night.
Almost 24 hours.
No, it's fair.
And you are every any normal person under the circumstances would probably look to place blame, ascribe blame at every step of the way.
The fact that they make her sleep on a park bench, I don't care if it's June, July, it's probably nice out.
But like, hey, here's an idea.
Just go.
If you got COVID, go quarantine in a room.
One room will be paid for reserved for the quarantine kids and you'll stay there for a couple of days until you feel better.
Because everything that transpired after that, in as much as you might be right to blame them for being a bunch of sissies and not dealing with a COVID case like a normal adult, it's not true that that had anything to do with what happened afterwards.
Well, in some of her text messages to some of the chaperones, they're playing it off as almost as if she's, you know, like, oh, well, I had a cough earlier the other day.
You know, it's probably just things like that.
I do know they gave her a big, I think she said it was, Mucinex, but the pill was too big for her to take, so she ended up taking Dayquil.
Like, she's taken before, so I didn't like, you know, they gave her that, but to administrate their own medication care, but not call me at all, was just beyond me.
Even if that's something she takes, whenever she's sick.
And then no autopsy.
So, I mean, I presume they've taken blood samples.
So had someone given her something bad in Toronto, then you would have seen something traces of it in the blood.
It's just the heart attack in the hospital and then two more on the helicopter.
It doesn't, it cannot make sense.
And that no one asked certain seemingly apparent questions.
No one did.
And then you get lawyers involved for a year whom I did not know had connection.
Bigger than Whitmer.
I mean, okay, that's big.
Who are now telling you, don't mention the jab.
Give me your phones.
Did your lawyers go through your phones?
I did not let them go through my phone because I don't know why they need to.
I gave them all my conversations through that I had with Auburn from July 9th until we went to the hospital.
My ex did the same.
Adam did, but he had more conversations with me.
They're asking for your text messages between you and your daughter and your husband and your daughter.
And with anyone that was members of the group, the members of the Oddfellas.
Two days after she passed away, they wrote us a check, a big check for quite a bit of money, which I did not cash.
I told them about it, the lawyers.
They didn't take...
The check, they just said, don't cash it.
May I ask, the odd fellas wrote you a check?
Oh, I'd get them from all over from them.
I got one from some group out up north.
Different lodges is what they're called.
Would send checks.
Are they purported to be compensatory?
Are they trying to get you to settle any and all claims that you might have against them?
I don't know.
They've never heard.
It just, you know, someone says they may be in fear of, you know, what their role was in that.
It's just weird that it was almost the exact amount that I had to pay for her funeral, too, which I was like, are they trying to pay for it?
Like, I don't want them to pay for it.
I don't want any of their money.
Did anything remotely, I mean, not comparable, did anything bad happen to anyone else on that trip other than COVID for one of the other people?
No.
Nothing.
Okay, now there's another angle of questions here.
So the organization and their branches sending you checks that you don't cash.
Your lawyer says don't cash them.
Well, we weren't going to cash it anyways, but they, yes, they said don't cash them.
But they didn't want a copy of them.
I thought it was weird they wanted copies of our phones, but they didn't want copies of these kind of things.
It's kind of weird.
I mean, it's very, very weird.
I mean, I can't even understand.
Typically, they want to see what evidence they would have of your daughter's deteriorating situation to then go after or ask the obvious questions of the people who are responsible, but a year and three months later to then say, they sent you a registered letter?
Well, it came in the mail that I had a sign for it.
It wasn't like a...
Not a bailiff, but that doesn't matter.
Right.
It was the mail guy I had a sign for it.
And yeah, that's what it said.
And my ex got one too.
It just said, based on our evidence, we see that Auburn was just too sick by the time she got to the hospital to do anything.
Lawyers don't typically say that.
Oxygen may have helped.
Well, but there may have been other problems that they might want to not ask the questions to, but lawyers don't typically send registered letters to their clients.
How about a phone call or a meeting to say, we've looked through it and we're very sad, we're very sorry about this, but we don't think there's anything we can do.
After a year...
Okay, what's the...
Do you know what the statute of limitations is for a personal injury claim?
Two years.
Through medical, it's two years.
At least they didn't wait a year and 11 months and 29 days.
Right.
And so what's the status now?
What are you doing now?
What questions do you have now?
What additional information do you have now?
None.
I was on Facebook.
I have a grieving, like I'm in these groups, you know, like grieving COVID losses.
And someone had said, does anyone have a lawsuit or anyone looking into questioning COVID deaths?
And I said, you know, my cousin's husband had passed away in 2019 or 20. 20, I believe.
I'll feel bad if I got that wrong.
But he passed away from COVID.
And his case definitely was not the same as Auburn's.
He didn't lose, you know, his hands were in black and blue.
And he was hospitalized on a ventilator for a long time.
I want to say like a month.
It was right before Christmas.
He had passed away.
It was horrible.
So as I think more and more about that, I think, you know, what happened in her case?
And I question it.
And then I asked the people in the COVID group, and she said, here's someone you should talk to.
His name is Dan Hartman.
And then I got in touch with Dan, who had me.
I was listening to a lot of, like, the interviews he was doing, his story.
I started.
I went back on my old Twitter account, Rio, up that.
I started listening to the vax-injured groups.
So sad, all those vaccinated injuries.
And then I thought, you know, I wonder if Auburn's case had anything to do with that.
And Dan said it probably did, because I don't know anybody who gets COVID that bad after being vaccinated at 17. Well, it's the heart attack.
The COVID is one thing, but the heart attack.
Well, that's what he said.
It's not COVID.
It's not COVID.
He didn't die from COVID, I would say, because Sean and his heart attack as well.
Had you heard of or spoken with Maddie DeGarry's parents?
Dan was the only person I had spoken to about it.
Clearly, in your spirit, it wasn't really even an immediate reflex at the time that this might be related to the jab.
Well, yeah, those lawyers scared us so bad that I was like, I mean, they were like, even in their office, they were scary.
They were aggressive.
I just felt very like, oh, like, whoa, like, I feel like, like, I'm going to be, like, I have so much that, like, these, they want to know my whole background just for, like, this case, like, I just feel very uncomfortable with them.
So trying to find another lawyer, I figured if they didn't want to take my case, I don't know who would, anyone lower than them in our area or where they even look because everyone's saying, oh, yeah, you know, no one wants to cover those or take on cases like that.
I had asked you this privately, but someone in the chat is asking, did you have her cremated afterwards?
Yes, I did.
I had her cremated because, I mean, she's so beautiful.
I didn't want any of her friends because they all saw her before she left.
Just glowing and happy.
She wouldn't have wanted anyone to see her like that and I didn't want anyone to see her like that.
She had enough.
On a personal level, there's never any healing from it.
How are your kids doing or her siblings?
They had another death happen there.
Papa was in a really bad car accident in August this year, exactly a year later.
They had watched it, so they're just still grieving.
We're grieving a lot over here for them.
I mean, they're doing well, considering.
But, yeah, deep down, we're not...
And no doctor, I presume, filed any form of...
At the time, we didn't even think people were really having problems with the COVID vaccine.
You know, I feel like it was, you know, they'd always say it's false information, false news, fake this, fake that, don't listen.
You know, so we never really, until I watched my daughter, that I really started to...
Research it then.
But in the beginnings, I didn't look that stuff up.
Something that we had mentioned, I'm trying to find it as we talked, but she had gotten two jabs within three weeks, give or take, and both came from the same batch.
Yep.
Same CVS, too.
The same CVS, the same batch.
Did you ask the CVS if they had had any reported adverse events?
No, not yet.
I found out what CVS it was, and we were going to go up there tomorrow while we Christmas shop and ask.
I'm going to go up there and ask because if you go to the CDC's site where you put in your batch number, unless you have like a government email address or a doctor email address or something, it won't give you the information.
So I emailed them and I said, because people on Twitter were like, well, it comes up that that batch wasn't ever given.
So I was confused.
I'm like, It's on her card.
And so I emailed the CDC and they responded with, unless I had that email, I wouldn't be able to obtain the records.
And then I would have to go to the facility to go, or like where she had gotten it done at.
I don't know who says the batch doesn't come up because it did.
FP7135.
On that one.
Yes, on that.
On how bad is my batch.
But if you go to the CDC's batch number, it won't come up on their site.
I did not post the vaccine card.
This is what it looked like.
Are you looking at another lawyer now?
I am.
I'm looking for answers and I'm looking for...
Why did an urgent care, when you come in and you tell someone that you're having shortness of breath and not breathing, do they leave you sitting in a waiting room for four or five hours without checking or giving you an oxygen tank?
Or, I mean, they knew she couldn't walk in.
They knew she couldn't walk in.
And why they allowed her to sit there without checking, you know, it wasn't overly booked in there.
It was, you know, normal or emergency.
It was actually like an urgent care.
It wasn't like an emergency room.
So why they allowed her to sit there like that for so long, I don't know.
And I want answers on that too.
It's okay.
Now you have not very little time left, but statute of limitations is running up.
So Hot Pocket says, Viva, ask if the other students on the trip ended up with COVID.
Only one other one did, correct?
I think...
A handful of them dead.
And I think they all stayed the rest of the trip.
I don't think they were sick enough to need to go home.
Because once we were home and in the hospital, I got very, you know, I had a, you know, their sympathies and all this.
And then that was that.
I didn't hear anything from any of them.
I think I know the answer to the question.
You haven't reached out to Pfizer, notified them, asked them any questions about this particular batch or the proximity of the jabs?
No, it wasn't until someone on Twitter, his name was Adam, he ran her batch number for me and he was the one that showed me where to go to check her batch number.
And that was maybe a month ago.
Alright, well that's...
No, with that batch, when I looked it up on how bad was my batch, it had five deaths, six disabilities, and then a number of other 470 adverse events.
But I couldn't tell how many doses were in the batch or how many numbers were in the batch.
Some of them have like hundreds of thousands, and so those numbers might be more or less proportionately significant to the amount total in the batch.
So you've spoken with Dan Hartman, not with Matty DeGarry.
There's the Martin family also, whose daughter passed away in close proximity.
And they got runarounds and what's the word when they...
Stonewalled.
I can't get over your lawyers, man.
That lawyer stuff, I'm going to ask you some questions off-air, offline, and I'm going to do my own due diligence.
I'll find their letters.
I'll find their letter.
I will find their letter and I will send you a copy so you can read it too.
Because we were like, what?
They didn't even send back her stuff either.
We had to go get them and had to ask them to get them.
I'll just make the cynical lawyer joke.
A lawyer that doesn't want to sue?
That means there's something more valuable on the other end of not suing than on the end of suing.
Right.
Well, it's beyond tragedy.
And again, I'm not making definitive statements one way or the other because there's a realm of possibility here where this could, in theory, just be absolute medical malpractice.
That then gets, you know, not obfuscated with, but, you know, confounded with COVID.
The hospital would rather say, yeah, it was COVID, never mind those heart attacks, and maybe we gave her a drug that we absolutely ought not never have given her, and it might not be Pfizer's jibby jab.
It might just be medical malpractice, and don't ask questions, and this lawyer might, you know, could have ties to the hospital, could have ties to whomever.
Yeah.
I have no idea how it is.
I just know that the minute we had talked about the vaccine, they didn't want us to talk about that.
And off the bat, they were like, COVID deaths.
And I kept thinking, well, I don't know if it was actually COVID death.
Like, on her death thing, it says multiple organ failure.
All kinds, you know, on her death certificate.
Multiple organ failure, COVID.
And then natural, something natural on the bottom.
Yeah, natural.
Natural cause of death, yeah.
It's terrible.
Shanna, what's the plan now?
Find a new lawyer, find a doctor to look at this, and just get some answers.
Yeah, I get some answers.
Like, even in there, they didn't really explain why her hands look like that or why her legs look like that or why it was spreading and why it was going further up if they were putting oxygen back into her blood.
Like, that was my question.
Like, if we're putting oxygen in her blood, shouldn't it be reducing that?
Like, obviously, we'll have to amputate what is dead tissue, but why does it keep spreading?
I mean, I'm not a doctor.
I've never seen that, ever.
Well, I'm a hypochondriac.
I mean, I know some of the...
You'd have necrosis.
You could have...
I don't think that clots would be the explanation.
If it's on all limbs, it would just be circulatory related.
Members of the community and locals want to know if there's anything they can do to help.
Are you running?
First of all, you told me, I think...
Are you allowed to say the medical bills?
I was sort of flabbergasted.
Oh, no, our medical bills.
They are medical.
For some reason, with the group that we worked with at the hospital, a social worker, she helped us with, I don't know, just to pay for it.
I have the medical bills.
It's not a bill, but I haven't received a bill or anything about it.
You got the breakdown of the quantum medications in price?
Yeah.
The amount of money doesn't even fit on the paper of how much her medical bills were.
It cuts off because it's so long.
Can I ask you how much?
Can you shock people with the quantum?
Probably millions.
Millions.
It's a lot.
It was 20 days of around the clock.
She had 13 different monitors hooked up to her as far as medications.
And then she had the ECMO, which they usually want to keep people on for four days and then pull them off.
They kept her on for 20 days before her blood.
They actually had to unhook it at one point and hand pump her heart, give her oxygen so they could switch out the tubing and the ECMO.
They had to do that twice, but the first time was an emergency one because it was clotting.
I'll tell you, we've got a massive community and locals.
I'm going to ask around if anybody knows a good lawyer up in the Michigan area and a good doctor.
I mean, the doctors, depending on what the issue was, there's a number of doctors who've been working with Dan Hartman and who have been vocal, outspoken activists on this particular issue.
Yeah, a freaking lawyer who's going to do their job in Michigan and just ask some questions of the right people and see what information there is out there.
Oh, yeah.
All right.
Shanna.
Shanna.
Shanna, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
You know, I'm just going to spell it phonetically with a W. Just put a W in there.
Where are your parents from?
Who comes up with the name Shanna and then spells it like that?
Well, we really don't know where my parents are.
Well, my mom was adopted.
Also, I did a DNA thing to find my parents' biological families and stuff.
Michigan.
We just come from Michigan.
Your mom was adopted, but you're her natural-born daughter?
Yeah, and she was reading a book called Shauna.
The cover of it, the chick had red hair, too, so how she knew I'd be a redhead was beyond me.
But she's like, the girl was sassy, but it's spelled Shauna, S-H-A-N-N-A.
That's Shanna to me, but to her, it's Shanna.
And if I want to read it in Hebrew, it's Shanna, which is a year, so it's Shanna, which is another way to...
I might still mispronounce it, but Shanna.
And I see a dog in one of the pictures with Auburn.
Is that a husky mix, or is that a Malamute?
This is my 13-year-old's best friend's dog.
Yeah, she's a husky.
Yeah, heiress.
She's really pretty.
She loved her.
She loved that dog.
She loved that dog.
If there's anything, look, we will be in touch now that we're formally, we now know each other, so we'll be in touch.
I'm going to ask around in the community if anybody knows.
You're in the actual Detroit area.
Yep, I'm right outside Detroit.
I'm about 10 minutes.
There's got to be a ton of lawyers.
With the problems that Michigan and Detroit have, there's got to be lawyers.
We had the biggest lawyers.
That was our thing.
We had like...
Because we have other lawyers for accidents or divorce lawyers, but these are the medical guides.
These are the ones that will help with everything.
Something is rotten in Detroit.
It doesn't make sense, but the other problem in this equation is I don't know you very well.
You don't seem like a very litigious person.
You don't seem like you're out for...
Out for answers is different than out for revenge.
Maybe litigation is not first and foremost in the mind of a grieving mother.
A good thing, a good attribute to have.
Answers need to be provided to this.
This is not just something that happens.
You know, I can comfort my kids and we can cry together and stuff like that.
But at the end of the day, when I'm laying in bed, why?
I need answers.
I can give my children, you know, the comfort.
But when, you know, you really just want those answers when it comes to your children.
Especially, it was so sudden.
It was unexpected.
I didn't get to say goodbye.
I barely got to talk to her about her first big trip.
She was excited to go on.
She was homesick.
I do know that.
And I just need to know why.
I need to know how, why, what caused it.
Because she was so healthy.
She was so healthy.
I don't get it.
Other question is you're waiting on the full medical report.
Who is that coming to you from?
The lawyers.
The new lawyers.
No, the old lawyers still have her paperwork in storage.
You need to get new lawyers to get on the old lawyers because the old lawyers will not move fast if they don't have to.
They told us they let us know this week when we could pick them up and they pulled them out of storage and they're still waiting.
It was on Friday they told us that.
Storage?
Yeah.
How do you put it in storage?
It's still an active file.
Okay, I mean, look, I'm being a little maybe too suspicious, but I don't think I am.
I would have thought they would have mailed the files back with the information.
If it was so, like, you know, I had a sign for it, they could have mailed them back with it.
Well, it's, I mean, look, Quebec rules of ethics.
When you close a file, it's the client's file.
You have to give them a copy, and you have to preserve one for seven years.
And, you know, why it would be in storage when it's still an ongoing potential dispute is why it takes so long.
It doesn't make sense.
So you're waiting for that.
That was supposed to come last week or supposed to come next week?
This week.
It was supposed to come.
They told my husband on Thursday, we'll let you know on Friday when you can pick him up and they still haven't messaged him yet.
So that was yesterday.
Hopefully Monday.
I'll ask around our locals community and we'll get someone who can hopefully help.
We'll see what we can do.
Shauna.
Shauna.
I can smack myself.
I'm waiting.
It's one cause, whatever the cause, it's tragedy beyond words.
It's tragedy beyond words, but it needs to have an answer.
It's not something that can just...
It doesn't just happen.
I know what I think are natural causes.
There's no natural cause of death for an otherwise healthy 17-year-old, even if it comes with an acute illness.
All right.
So we'll see.
We'll keep on it.
And you know who to talk to now.
I do.
Thank you.
Okay.
Now stick around.
We'll say our proper goodbyes.
I'm going to ask you more questions about those lawyers offline.
I'm joking.
So you're on Twitter.
What is your handle on Twitter?
I think it's just my name, Shauna Carroll 80. My birth year.
80. 1980.
I'm older than you.
First of all, you said I'm old.
First of all, you don't look like you're in your 40s.
But 1980, you made the cut.
Maybe I feel old.
This year, it's been old.
Did I hear a cat meowing in the background?
Oh my gosh, do you?
No, no, I was going to say, I think it was either that or a very weird dog.
My cat has been scraping it, like dying to get in here, but he was trying to walk on everything, so the camera kept shifting.
I bottle fed them, so they're very needy.
It is Shana, two N's.
Shauna, two N's.
Carol, two R's and two L's.
80. It's time to get answers, so start mobilizing.
All right, everybody, I'm going to end this and I'm going to talk to Shauna for a bit after this.
We're going to have our Sunday Law Show tomorrow night.
Shauna, it's tragedy beyond words, but we'll be in touch going forward now.
Everybody out there, enjoy the evening.
Shauna, stick around.
We'll say goodbye.
Bye-bye.
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