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Aug. 30, 2023 - Viva & Barnes

02:01:05

Jenna Ellis & the Trump Indictments; Justin Hart & DeSantis! Viva Frei Live!

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Time	Text
	Oh, it seems to have gone live four seconds too early.
	I'm going to preface this intro video.
	You are going to gag.
	You are going to puke.
	You are going to be reciting that line from Billy Madison.
	I look at this person, Chrystia Freeland, the Minister of Finance.
	I forget what she is in Canada.
	I'll have to double-check in her profile.
	I have a visceral, stomach-turning...
	Physical reflex when I see her face.
	And it's not because anybody is, like, objectively ugly.
	She is spiritually nauseating.
	And therefore, she could look like Cindy Crawford.
	And I'm sure she would elicit the same gut-turning, stomach-turning, nauseating response that if she looks like what she looks like now.
	And if she were the nicest person on earth, I'm sure she would be wonderful to look.
	With that said...
	Enjoy the verbal diarrhea that you are about to hear now.
	Why has your government issued the travel advisory for LGBTQ plus people to the United States?
	In case you haven't heard, the Canadian government's got nothing more important to do than issue travel advisories to the LGBTQ plus community to the United States.
	Look at that face.
	Oh my gosh.
	And was this something you discussed with President Biden or your government discussed with President Biden first?
	Whenever it starts a sentence with so, it's going to be bullshit.
	So much bullshit is what it's going to be.
	Someone who has had the real privilege of serving as Canada's foreign minister.
	I know that our travel advisories are done very professionally.
	Did you consult with Biden before issuing a travel advisory to the United States?
	So, I personally believe that U.S. Americans...
	I'm trying not to make fun of that woman.
	She had a brain fart.
	This woman is a brain fart.
	Chrystia Freeland.
	Hey, so did you consult with Biden?
	I know that the institution of travel advisories have a long history of being well-respected in Canada, and I'm sure...
	Sorry, we're going to have to get through this.
	We have professional...
	Professionals in the government.
	Professionals in the government?
	His job is to look carefully around the world and to monitor whether there are particular dangers to particular groups of Canadians.
	That's their job and it's the right thing to do.
	When it comes to the United States specifically...
	That's not a glitch.
	That's not a glitch.
	This is a woman whose brain does not work.
	How long was that?
	Hold on.
	48, 49, 50. When it comes to the United States, specifically.
	One, two, three, four, five, six.
	I have personal experience of dealing with the diversity of U.S. administrations and of dealing with American leaders at all levels of government.
	When I was a practicing attorney, when I would get verbal diarrhea responses like this from a witness that I would be asking a question to, I would stop them.
	I'd say, stop right now.
	What question did I just ask you?
	Do you remember the question that I just asked you?
	And then they'll say, I don't remember the question you asked.
	I'm just off on a tangent.
	What question did I just ask?
	And what in the name of sweet holy hell are you talking about?
	In all branches of government and with Americans from We represent diverse groups across the country, whether it is business or labor or civic organizations.
	Diarrhea, just verbal diarrhea.
	And that's because our government understands, as every Canadian government needs to understand, that one of the principal responsibilities of the federal government is to understand how to work with our U.S. neighbor.
	I think our government has shown that that's a priority for us.
	And that we work hard at it.
	And that we're able to manage that relationship regardless of the choices that the people...
	What the hell is she talking about?
	Even as we work hard...
	We play hard.
	Oh, no, sorry, that's the other speech.
	Even as we work hard on that government to government relationship, every Canadian government, very much including our government, Every Canadian government.
	We put at the center of everything we do, the interests and the safety of every single Canadian and of every single group of Canadians.
	This was a hot, steaming bowl of verbal diarrhea that could only achieve the projectile velocity after a morning at Taco Bell.
	Holy crap.
	Yes, no, no, maple syrup.
	Diarrhea.
	All right, now.
	We're done with Christia Freeland having destroyed yet another government institution.
	Whatever value was ever placed into travel advisories, they've taken it and they've taken a steaming dump on it.
	It means nothing now.
	Travel advisories now mean nothing.
	Emergency things on your phone mean nothing when I got one that said I had to go into curfew.
	The liberal Democrat government...
	Politicians take every word and deny it of meaning.
	They take every institution and desecrate it of value.
	And now they've taken yet another thing.
	Travel advisories.
	Oh, so when they say don't go to Rwanda, don't go to Sudan, don't go to America.
	I don't have enough middle fingers to extend to the Canadian government right now.
	All right.
	With that said, Jenna Ellis is in the backdrop.
	And I'm not going to scold my own audience and I'm not going to shame anybody.
	Period.
	Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
	I do not block people.
	I do not ban people, except for the spammers.
	The spammers get blocked.
	I find it surprising that people say, I'm not tuning in.
	Like when Stephen King says, I'm leaving Twitter, we rightly mock that type of juvenile response.
	I don't like Elon Musk.
	I'm leaving Twitter.
	First of all, if you're going to leave because you don't like someone, that's juvenile.
	If you're going to leave and then you feel the need to announce that you're leaving...
	Everyone says it.
	Hey, thanks.
	This isn't an airport.
	We don't need a departure announcement.
	But if anybody thinks that you learn anything by tuning out from listening to those that you even think you have an ideological problem with, that's a problem.
	I listen to CNN and Rachel Maddow not because I like what they have to say, but because A, I need to know what they're saying, and B, you don't get smarter by listening and consuming less, listening to and consuming less.
	I have no personal problem with Jenna Ellis.
	Well, I am going to discuss some of the tweets that I know people have taken issue with, but more importantly than anything, we're going to get into the DeSantis stuff because Justin Hart is coming on at 2 o 'clock, but we're going to talk about the indictment, the bullshit indictment, and whether or not it's changed Jenna's perspective on things.
	But I just wanted to address it.
	First of all, everyone's entitled to their opinion.
	I'm not going to shame anybody and say, how dare you, whatever.
	But we're adults.
	We can listen to people we might disagree with, and you might actually discover.
	You might not disagree with them quite as much as you think you do, which I'm hoping, you know, Jenna actually also realizes at some point.
	Okay, Jenna, I'm bringing you in.
	In three, two, one.
	Jenna, let's see here.
	Do we do like this?
	No, we'll do the broad.
	I love the backdrop.
	Is that a real backdrop?
	Unfortunately, no.
	It's totally fake.
	In that case, forget it.
	We're going like this.
	No, it's great though, right?
	That's the beauty of technology.
	Well, it looks good.
	I was going to say the piano, it's not even an upright.
	It's like that's a baby grand and you got a fireplace.
	Although it's going to start...
	It looks cozy.
	Well, also, it's going to start some rumors.
	Look, Jenna is asking for legal fees while she has a mansion behind her.
	We're going to get into all of this.
	People actually posted that on Twitter and said, wait, you have beachfront property?
	What's going on?
	I'm like, guys, this is a Zoom background.
	But thanks.
	Apparently, it looks great.
	Well, I know you're apparently one of the accusations is also you're a member of some Disney club, which I don't know what the financial requirements are to get into.
	And I'm not even a member.
	Friends of mine are.
	And we went for fun while I was in.
	L.A. because I was promoting the movie of political persecution against pastors, by the way.
	And so we just went for fun, had lunch, and left.
	And apparently, though, that makes you persona non-grad.
	And people just infer everything.
	And it's amazing what I learn about myself on social media.
	Well, we're going to get into some of it right now, but let's say you've had a rough month.
	The indictment is one thing, and now you've got the hurricane, which is hitting you guys, I think, further up northwest more than it is south-central Florida.
	You're doing okay with the hurricane?
	I am.
	Thankfully, I was not in part of the evacuation area, and so I am okay, and I got a lot of great advice from a lot of people on social media because this is my first hurricane as a Florida resident, but doing okay.
	So glad you are too.
	So I guess you're further south.
	South, and we're like mid, so we're not on either coast directly, so it sort of adds a little protection.
	Okay, well, let's jump right into this because I know you got something at, well, we got 50 minutes.
	We'll be good.
	The indictment, Jenna.
	So now, for those who don't know who you are, once upon a time, Trump counsel.
	And now you're reaping all of the benefits.
	You're reaping all of what that sows to have represented Donald Trump.
	Just very quickly, who are you for those who may not know?
	And then let's get into this indictment.
	Yeah, well, I'm a lawyer and I'm someone who has always loved the U.S. Constitution.
	And I practiced law in Colorado, both as a prosecutor and then as a criminal defense attorney.
	I got more into constitutional law and the philosophy, especially behind that.
	I taught constitutional law and legal studies for undergrads at Colorado Christian University.
	I wrote a book in 2015 titled The Legal Basis for a Moral Constitution.
	I'm an allied attorney with the Alliance Defending Freedom.
	I've previously been special counsel with the Thomas More Society.
	That's how I represented Pastor John MacArthur, Grace Community Church, and several other churches in the midst of the insane COVID narrative that attempted to lock down churches.
	And some of those pastors actually were jailed for their faith.
	And so one of my clients, one of and probably the most famous, of course, was Donald Trump.
	And so I was invited initially to be a surrogate on his campaign team.
	I didn't initially support him in 2016.
	I didn't know him other than from The Apprentice.
	I was initially a Ted Cruz supporter like a lot.
	And then I heard him speak and became a huge fan.
	I supported him.
	I voted.
	I encouraged my fellow Christians to vote for him, especially against the known evil quantity of Hillary Clinton.
	And then as soon as he appointed Justice Gorsuch, that really validated my vote.
	And so I continued to do that in my personal capacity.
	I was invited to be a surrogate for his 2020 campaign.
	And then through that, apparently he saw me advocating for him through the Kavanaugh hearings on television and called me up one day and said, Hey, Jenna, how's it going?
	You know, I see you on TV.
	You have this big, beautiful title, Constitutional Law Attorney.
	I love it.
	It's huge, you know, and it was great.
	And it was amazing to me that he called me.
	We talked for about an hour.
	He invited me to D.C. and I said, I think you're a brilliant lawyer and I want you to work for me.
	So I accepted that opportunity.
	I became a senior legal advisor to his 2020 re-election campaign and then personal counsel to him.
	And so for those who really didn't know me before the post-election, I was working for him directly leading into the first impeachment.
	So I was on the legal team.
	My role and responsibility was not to argue down on the Senate floor, but to go on television and write the op-eds and to advocate from a legal position.
	I was helping then-press secretary Stephanie Grisham with all of this stuff.
	So I was a member of his team long before all of this stuff.
	And so for the people who just say, well, you know, you've lost every case you've ever represented on.
	Well, first, I was never attorney of record.
	In any of those cases.
	And also, the post-election stuff was not my first go around with anything Trump related or any of this weaponization of government against him.
	Well, first of all, anybody who says you've lost cases as a lawyer, I mean, great.
	If you only take cases, you win.
	You're not one heck of a lawyer to begin with.
	And the only people who say that are idiots who have never practiced.
	Respectfully submitted to anybody who I like that might have said it.
	It's not a legitimate source of critique.
	If you don't lose cases, you're not taking hard cases.
	Well, let's just, first things first.
	Southern Law says...
	Jenna killed the mugshot.
	I'm going to ask you about that in a bit.
	And I'm bringing this up right now because it's going to be relevant.
	Jenna Ellis is now a DeSantis supporter.
	The biggest issue is her slamming Trump for calling DeSantis a backstabber.
	He is.
	Okay, before we get into that, you were representing Trump.
	And Jenna, you're a lawyer.
	If I ask you a question that you should not or cannot answer because of what's going on, just let me know.
	I will.
	And I don't want people to infer into that, by the way, because I've been asked a ton of questions that genuinely I wish I could answer.
	And I think that as my lawyers continue to file pleadings, those will speak for themselves.
	But, you know, there are a lot of rumors, assumptions, presumptions.
	We all know what it means to assume and what that makes people.
	And so I would just say for what I can't say right now, because I want to be a good client, please don't infer anything into that from any direction.
	Well, and it's also like people have to apply equal logic and equal reasoning.
	Trump can't participate.
	In the debates, many argue because if he says something to Pence, it might be witness intimidation.
	And as much as you don't want to infer cowardice from Trump for not debating, you can't infer malice for Jenna, who's facing an indictment, for not making statements publicly.
	Though...
	We're going to get into that because what it means for Trump to have not bailed out Harris and Floyd, but we'll get there.
	Take a note.
	So hold on.
	Okay.
	So you were the attorney of, not attorney of record, but counsel to Trump.
	You're there to provide legal services, legal opinions, advocate in the court of public opinion.
	You do so in the context of the 2020 various contests, many of which were not actually Trump personally instituted proceedings.
	We saw what happened to them in terms of not being heard or being heard, yada, yada.
	But then afterwards, you start facing ethics complaints.
	And I'm trying to get into contextualizing your move away from Trump and to support DeSantis.
	Whether people like it or not, they should understand it.
	After you represent Trump and vigorously, publicly, with all that that entails, what ends up happening to you professionally?
	Well, so people need to realize that as soon as Trump leaves office and the January 6th committee starts and then the 65 project and other people start weaponizing the bar associations against us, you know, I'm not Trump's only lawyer by far.
	I mean, there are hundreds of lawyers that participated in this.
	I may be one of the most prominent, but there were also a lot of lawyers throughout his entire administration and for various reasons didn't want to represent him because he was so politically.
	And so a lot of people, especially in the aftermath of the 2020 election, one in particular, she was actually, I believe, an attorney of record in Pennsylvania and called the team and said, I can't do this anymore.
	I'm getting intimidation and threats.
	I have kids.
	I can't do this anymore.
	And she stepped back.
	And, you know, for me, that type of intimidation that was simultaneous to...
	A right of my client to petition the government for redress, to have free speech, to challenge election results in the margins of the Constitution.
	To have that type of intimidation tactic, even back then, for the lawyers, was absolutely fundamentally un-American.
	And so I stood by him.
	I was willing to be his attorney and to represent the claims of the campaign itself.
	And, you know, so a lot of people had a lot of different theories.
	And that's one of the biggest myths of this whole thing, is that, you know, everything that anybody thought could be associated or affiliated with Trump or his campaign.
	I said back then, And then, you know, that's totally not true.
	But the intimidation tactic started, you know, way back when I first...
	Started representing him personally.
	I mean, I was getting death threats.
	I've reported, you know, I've had to report many of those to the FBI, to the Secret Service at the time.
	So that started simultaneously with my representation.
	Once I concluded, and no, I was not fired by Donald Trump.
	We're still actually friends.
	And I concluded my representation like a lawyer does.
	And on January 15th of 2021, I sent a conclusion of representation letter that every lawyer out there knows that you do.
	Has been concluded.
	Notstanding matters.
	And that's actually public record.
	And then moved forward with my life.
	And, you know, taken other clients since then.
	But then after that, the January 6th committee, of course, is organized.
	And I think, you know, against the rules and all of those types of arguments.
	But I was subpoenaed.
	I had to get a lawyer for that.
	I've been subpoenaed as a witness to multiple civil cases.
	I was a defendant.
	Thankfully, we got that dismissed.
	But all of these things were...
	And then also the bar complaints.
	I think it's something like 50 by now that have been filed against me, totally in my view frivolously, trying to go after my livelihood, my reputation, my credibility, simply because my former client's name is Donald Trump.
	So I've had to defend a lot of this, even well before this indictment.
	Jenna, I'm going to bring up a chat, not to agree or disagree, and certainly not to needle you, but you obviously know what people are saying in any event.
	You betrayed Trump, you deserve everything you get.
	Now, I want to flesh this out a little bit because whether people agree or disagree, some people might do good to walk a mile in your shoes and at least understand how you might feel.
	You end up getting an ethics complaint filed against you to which you negotiate a settlement and agree that some of the statements you made were factually incorrect.
	Misrepresentations.
	Misrepresentations.
	That's the key.
	There's not the word false.
	The word lie is nowhere in that stipulation.
	Understood.
	But people are, first of all, I mean, I said at the time, some people said bearing false witness to yourself is in and of itself a problem.
	And if you think you're going to placate the mob by doing that, well, it's going to come back and bite you in the ass like I suspect it is now.
	But misrepresentations.
	So let's just, we'll agree.
	We won't nitpick over that.
	Qualification.
	Misrepresentations.
	Some people are going to say, what you said were not misrepresentations.
	You did it to save your license.
	It was a cowardly move.
	And look where it got you now because it didn't even placate the mob.
	And some people are going to hold a grudge against you for that.
	What's the response to that in terms of whether or not you bent the knee to try to save your license by acknowledging a wrongdoing that you didn't actually think you did?
	Well, I can't get into a lot of the specifics there, and I wish that I could.
	But what a lot of people need to understand is that there's so much more going on behind the scenes here.
	And we're seeing that being fleshed out with the Georgia indictment and now with the indictment from the DOJ as well.
	And so under the rules of professional responsibility, if a lawyer's license is targeted, we are allowed to provide some privileged communication in order to defend ourselves.
	And I chose not to do that because I knew and part of my calculation in this was I wanted to protect my former client from Be coming down the road and eventually did come down the road.
	And so part of this and not going to a fuller hearing is because I didn't want to reveal what was not mine to reveal.
	And so even though I could have under the rules of professional responsibility for anybody who says that I'm not still defending my client's interests, have absolutely no idea what the rules of professional responsibility allow in various contexts, and they have no idea of the bigger picture.
	And I'm not going to go into some of the bigger picture, but what I can say is that anyone who thinks that somehow I betrayed my Or I, you know, am doing this for, you know, for my own sake or, you know, something like this.
	That's totally just you're only looking at what the media is telling you.
	And I wish that I could give you the fuller story.
	And people aren't going to say, OK, well, your defense then is trust me, bro.
	Well, you know, if that's not good enough for you, then that's OK with me because my obligations, of course.
	Are to make sure that I always do the right thing.
	I have counsel that's advising me very well.
	And if that's not good enough for people, my goal is never to placate the mob.
	People are going to love or hate me.
	They're going to love or hate Trump.
	They're going to love or hate whatever based on their own potential misinformation or the sources that they believe.
	There's so much out there that I...
	Look at every day and I think, these people have no idea what they're talking about.
	And I'm not here to correct every single misnomer or every single, you know, false thing that's put out on social media.
	My job is to make sure that I am principled and that I can't pull, you know, Trump, like he said years ago, you know, if I shot somebody on Fifth Avenue, I wouldn't lose any support.
	Let's just say for total hyperbolic reasons that actually happened.
	I would condemn that.
	And I would say, I'm not going to support that.
	But people are literally out there saying Trump could do anything and will still support him.
	That is unprincipled.
	And so if you don't want to support me because you disagree with me, you're entitled to disagree with me.
	But if you don't support me and the weaponization and targeting of government against me simply because you disagree with my political perspective, guess what?
	You're a leftist.
	That's not what genuine conservative Americans do.
	There are so many people I disagree with.
	I disagreed with Donald Trump all the time on different things.
	But that doesn't matter in terms of how I did my job as an advocate and as a lawyer.
	I mean, we've all disagreed with our clients.
	If the principle was you have to agree 100% with the person.
	Then the only person I think that I would ever support is myself, because I agree with myself 100% of the time.
	I never agree with anyone 100% of the time.
	I can't even pretend to agree with myself 100% of the time, but fair answer, and I'm going to ask the flip side of this question, and then we're going to end it on YouTube and go over to Rumble, and then the answer will be there.
	There are some people who are going to say...
	you felt slighted or abandoned by Trump.
	And for some people to say that and then not understand how some people can actually feel that where you had counsel who went to bat, got death threats, got doxxed, got harassed, then had their licenses, you know, gone after by the mob and some, some of them, You may agree or disagree.
	You might say this is the injury that you have to take for the battle.
	Some of them feel that Trump did not defend them, didn't come to their aid and assistance whatsoever, left them out to dry.
	And that, some people say, is you, a woman scorned who has now gone to the dark side, Team DeSantis.
	Can you answer that?
	But before you do, everyone on YouTube, get your butts over to Rumble because that's where the answer is going to be in 3, 2, 1. We're there now.
	I mean...
	People are going to say, look, you felt abandoned by Trump because he left you to your own devices and left a bunch of other lawyers.
	That's the critique.
	What's the truth to that critique?
	And did it have any influence on whether or not, you know, on your decision to...
	Go to Team DeSantis.
	Well, let's look at the facts first.
	And let's also look at when I started supporting Governor DeSantis.
	So the facts are, I've been targeted from the leftists and from all of these haters for a really long time.
	That has never deterred me.
	And then after the fact, if you look, not just me, but everyone else, even before me and contemporaneously with me, that it's just factually accurate that Trump left us on the field.
	That's just a fact.
	And people can feel all kinds of different ways about that.
	But it's simply true that he didn't provide any assistance with the...
	Really insane legal fees that a lot of us, not just me, but people you've never even heard of, have had to incur based on their representation or just their role that are non-attorneys working for him, his administration or the campaign.
	So it's just factually true that he's not helping anyone, to my knowledge, other than himself.
	So how do we then feel about that?
	Well, how I feel about that is that it doesn't impact anything that I do in my professional career.
	There are clients that I've represented that, you know, loyalty doesn't necessarily go both ways in that sense because I'm there to do a job for them.
	I'm there to fulfill my role and responsibility as a lawyer to them, regardless of what they do.
	So my calculation...
	If I was going to completely abandon Trump or totally say things about him or whatever, that could have started right when people like Alyssa Farah Griffin were starting to slam him, when Stephanie Grisham and some of these others.
	I told both of them that it is wrong to go after him personally and to somehow manipulate your time with him in a way that is now, you know, you're looking back on that and sort of spinning it in a way that benefits.
	I don't do that.
	I am not calling out Trump personally.
	I respect him personally.
	Like I said, we still have a good friendship.
	But what I am obligated to do under the principles of a conservative and of a Christian is to evaluate an open primary and ask myself the question, how do I discharge my duty as a voter in the best way possible?
	And I genuinely believe that that is Governor DeSantis.
	And it's not because I hate Trump.
	It's not because I don't support him against the weaponization of government.
	He gets the nomination.
	I'll vote for it.
	And I will defend that.
	But if I'm looking at the field and I'm looking at the record of what Trump did accomplish and the things that he didn't, he basically abdicated his last year of presidency to Dr. Fauci.
	And to all of these COVID lockdowns and to so many things that Governor DeSantis just simply handled better.
	Governor DeSantis is the one that has fired deep state Soros prosecutors.
	He has a better electability opportunity, in my view, just looking at the pathway to 270.
	These are things that we need to seriously contemplate.
	And my role as a lawyer for a former client should have and does not have any bearing on how I view the facts and how I view discharging my duty as a as an American citizen and a voter in the best possible way.
	Am I going to defend Trump against the weaponization of government?
	Yes.
	And I have anyone who listens to my radio show, my podcast.
	I've told people to donate to him, starting with Alvin Bragg's ridiculous indictment.
	But that doesn't mean that he has earned my vote.
	And I can, as a matter of record.
	Separate the emotion of being super mad at what Trump and everyone else, including me now, is going through.
	But separate that with my role and my principle and my obligation as an American voter to do the best thing.
	And I also do absolutely hate what his campaign, Trump's campaign, is doing to Governor DeSantis in terms of the lies, the smears, the attacks.
	I mean, I was neutral in the very beginning just saying, hey guys, stop lying about him.
	Let's answer this and debate and discuss it as an adult.
	And just for that, for being unwilling to trash DeSantis, I was called a porn star.
	I was called 300 pounds.
	I was called all of these other things that were just so petty and juvenile and ridiculous simply because I wasn't willing to trash DeSantis in the same way they were.
	That's not principled.
	And of course, I'm going to say no, because you know who was doing that against Donald Trump in 2016?
	The left.
	And you know who was saying, no, stop it.
	Don't lie about Trump.
	Don't call him a racist.
	Don't call him a terrible person.
	I was defending him against that.
	So I'm going to defend the truth.
	And I think everyone, regardless of who you end up voting for, at least defend the facts, defend the records, and don't engage in all of this petty mudslinging.
	It's beneath our dignity as voters and, frankly, just as adults.
	I can address two things.
	The DeSantis firing the deep state stuff, you know.
	Yes, he did.
	Some people said at the time he was doing it strictly so that he could say that he did that afterwards.
	Many people say Fauci—sorry, DeSantis was not much better than Trump early on, shut the beaches down, etc., etc.
	I think we should all agree that no one's going to be perfect in all of this.
	The question is going to be, who did better?
	Trump firing Fauci might not have had much of an impact on states' autonomy to do what they want to destroy their own states.
	But I'm going to steelman one argument, or at least steelman both sides of it.
	Some people are going to say, look, you signed on to help Trump.
	You knew the risk that came with it.
	And you can't expect Trump to distract from the presidency to help each and every, I don't know, come to the aid of each and every lawyer that represented him that's now having problems.
	It's not feasible.
	Others would say, as far as the accusations of RICO conspiracy, if he were to come in and post bail for everybody, pay the legal fees of all the attorneys, it would be confirmation of the RICO strategy.
	And then you just have to go with whichever story you think is the most plausible.
	Do you have rights to be resentful and switch camps?
	Was Trump right to, to some extent, let some of the people fend for themselves?
	People were criticizing Trump in 2016, 2017, for this very type of thing.
	I'm gonna just go on a monologue a little longer.
	The other thing is people have to understand that criticism is not necessarily a bad thing if the person can hear it and actually...
	Incorporated and learned from it.
	Many of the criticisms early on, Barnes at the time, Cernovich, was that there was not absence of loyalty, but maybe thoughtlessness of loyalty to the people who put their necks on the line for Trump.
	And so people should learn from that.
	Criticism is not necessarily a bad thing.
	You've heard genocide and you can steal men the other side.
	Some people are going to say, Jenna, it's not the fact that you're with DeSantis.
	It's that you're taking a lot of cheap shots on Twitter, attacking Trump for things that he did that you are now doing.
	And this is the one I got to flesh out from you.
	Everybody seems to think that you railed on Trump for having to crowdsource legal fees.
	I was looking for the tweet, and I even asked my community's aggregate knowledge to find it.
	My understanding is that the criticism was the RNC raising funds for Trump's legal defense that were not used for the actual election challenges.
	But did you criticize Trump for crowdfunding for the legal fees for the persecution that he is currently facing?
	No, I criticized him for using some of the crowdfunding to pay for Jason Miller's personal legal expenses that were unrelated at all to his role on the campaign.
	And so what I criticized, and I know the tweet that you're talking about where I talked about using grandmas who were donating their pension to the campaign, said, and now he's paying for the personal family law expenses of a staffer.
	And so to me, that is a completely different...
	Thought process.
	And that's a completely different type of use of some of these things that if he's going to pay for the personal family law issues of a staffer, but he's not going to pay for the legal fees of people like me and the other attorneys that actually for doing our job, then I don't know what the contemplation is there.
	And I would love an answer to that.
	So it isn't true that I criticized him for crowdfunding.
	I criticized him for crowdfunding saying this is going.
	I wouldn't expect or even want his campaign to pay for a personal vacation for me or to pay for personal issues that I might be going through that are totally unrelated to my job.
	So that was what I was criticizing.
	And I think we need to be very clear on that.
	Okay, interesting.
	I'm not familiar with the Jason Miller legal fee expenses, so the internet will fact check, and then Jenna, if what you...
	They'll fact check, and if it's not true, we'll find out sooner than later.
	All right, but now, look.
	I also read tweets.
	In the tone that I probably would have written them, people read tweets like it's an all-in attack.
	It's the nastiest thing on earth.
	And so I've gone through some of your tweets.
	People are angry that, you know, the couch-surfing Carrie Lake tweet.
	Oh, I want to address that real quick.
	Just really quick, because out of just my Christian faith, I never accused her, nor would I, of having an affair.
	That was a friend of mine who commented underneath, and I responded, and I should have called him out for that, and I didn't, but I just didn't really want to touch it.
	My idea of crowd surfing is like in college where you go and you're just hopping from one place to the next because you don't want to pay for a hotel.
	And so you bum off of your friend and you sleep on their couch.
	That's my definition.
	And maybe it's different in Gen Zers or something.
	But couch surfing, yeah, like a bum college dropout, right?
	So I was laughing at the fact that, you know, she's there and she's spending time in Mar-a-Lago instead of, you know, staying over at a different hotel that she's actually paying for.
	So that had nothing to do with anything.
	And so the whole idea that I would ever, ever...
	I don't accuse anyone of having an affair.
	I think that those kind of, you know, dirty low-level things are absolutely uncalled for.
	So I want to clarify that for sure.
	Okay.
	And now I'll say this because I'm youngest of five kids and I don't take things as personally as most people would.
	And when I read it, you know, A, when you're in the political sphere, some people say you shouldn't even...
	Have that tone of tweet with allies.
	Call them ideological allies.
	Even if you disagree on some issues, you should be supporting Carrie Lake.
	People are going to be rightly annoyed that you're ostensibly not supporting her, at least criticizing her while she's fighting an election battle, that some might still harbor some resentment was not successful with Trump.
	I sometimes, I mean, I try to read these tweets and say like, okay, she might have said, oh, she's just out there couch surfing, which I never took to mean sleeping around.
	That's just like crashing on someone's couch.
	I would read them in a more jovial tone, maybe because when I tell a reporter to go fuck himself, that's how I mean it.
	Others don't.
	And so people are saying, look, you've been nasty with Carrie.
	And there, I'm saying nasty with a woman.
	I'm going to get accused of misogyny.
	You've been nasty with Carrie.
	You've been nasty with Trump supporters, Trump himself.
	Whereas, you know, there's been plenty of...
	Trump supporters who are, I'm reading the chat, are being nasty with DeSantis supporters.
	But there are some people that say, look, you gave it and now you're getting it.
	I don't know.
	A, do you regret any of it?
	And B, where do we go from here?
	Yeah, well, that's political discourse, right?
	I'm totally fine with people disagreeing with the fact that I don't think that Carrie Lake's election challenges are actually beneficial to the overall cause, right?
	I don't think that, and you and I have had this conversation, we've had this on my show as well, you know, some of the things I don't think are particularly good legal strategy, but that's me, and that's what lawyers do.
	We debate, and we look at all these things, and I think that for her to be Going out there and what I term as a grifter is somebody who is expecting the general public to pay for basically their entire life and they don't actually have a job.
	I have a job.
	I actually have several.
	Asking for money to fund my lifestyle.
	I am asking for funds to help me pay for a defense that the left is trying to bankrupt all of us and that I absolutely can't afford.
	I mean, again, this background is fake and false.
	I wish that it wasn't.
	I'm not a millionaire.
	And that is part of the leftist strategy.
	And if Carrie Lake was targeted by the weaponization of government, then I would stand up for her even if I disagreed with everything else she said.
	So as far as people coming after me for my political opinions, fine, have at it.
	I don't regret any of that because I'm not going to say something just to get you or anyone else to like me.
	That's not what I do.
	I am principled.
	You're going to get what I think as I think it.
	And can my views change or my political application of a principle change if I want to come more in line?
	With what principles I hold to?
	Absolutely.
	That's why we should always measure what we think against our principles.
	But that's all political discourse.
	That's fine.
	For people who now say that just because they disagree with my political opinions, I somehow deserve the government to be weaponized against me.
	I deserve to go to prison for my entire life, you know, lock her up and, you know, all these other vulgar terms against me just because they think I'm not supporting Trump in the way that they do.
	That's leftism.
	That is absolutely un-mortem.
	Jenna, you know that I don't have any personal gripes with you.
	I hate the word grifter.
	I think most people use it improperly.
	I think you're using it improperly right now.
	But that's my definition, and we can all know about that.
	But that's how I'm using it.
	Whenever I hear someone use the term grifter, I say that's the leftist accusation.
	I don't know if anyone's going to find any tweet of me unironically using it.
	If I've ever used the term seriously, I'm damn sure that it's like...
	An Al Sharpton stirring up racial discord so that he could say, give me money.
	So I think, I hate that accusation because I think it's a very leftist thing to call someone a grifter and I think it's wrongly used more often than not.
	And I think you're wrong to use it with Carrie Lake.
	That being said.
	And we can debate that.
	I mean, and see, and that doesn't, that doesn't make me now say, oh my gosh, well, you know, I don't support you, David.
	I'm going to block you now.
	And I think that that's actually a genuine.
	A clash in terms of what is the definition of grifter?
	Because I think that a lot of people use that in different ways, and a lot of people use other terms like loyalty or traitor or other things in ways that I would totally disagree with their definition.
	But the whole point to this conversation is that you and I can disagree on that type of political discourse.
	We can disagree over who we do and don't like in politics.
	She ran for public office.
	She's a public figure in that sense as a politician.
	I'm not a politician.
	I'm a public figure, but I'm a private citizen.
	All I'm saying is that even if I disagree with everything that Trump is doing or has ever done, I am going to defend the principle that the government should never be weaponized against him.
	And I will defend that regardless of personal feelings, regardless of anything of his administration I agreed or disagreed with.
	We all have to separate.
	The truth of the matter and why we all need to come together unanimously and agree at least on the principles of liberty and freedom.
	Then we can debate the rest.
	That's what our founders did.
	It's interesting.
	If someone I considered a friend were to call me a grifter or someone I considered to be, I don't know.
	Aligned with, called me a grifter online.
	I probably never talked to them again.
	Not because I'm sensitive, just like, okay, well, if that's what you think of me, I think we have a misunderstanding as to who I am.
	And so I can understand people angry at you for that and now saying, okay, fine, well, you've given it as well as you're expected to take it now.
	But then to translate that into saying, because I don't think people know this.
	Well, first of all, people should also just maybe say, even if they think you're wrong, and even if they think you're acting out of anger, resentment, and disappointment, they have not gone through what you've gone through as a result of what you've done.
	So it's very easy for everyone else to say how they would ideally respond if they were in your position, having gone through what you've gone through.
	I can understand that you'd be angry for right or for wrong.
	How much did the lawyers...
	Am I allowed asking this?
	How much did the lawyers ask for a retainer on this indictment stuff?
	Yeah, so I don't want to get into the specifics of what exactly the agreement is with my lawyers, just because that's confidential with them.
	But I can say generally that I'm looking at having to raise about half a million dollars just for this Georgia indictment in the short term.
	So I really appreciate and respect everyone who is helping me and some of the other donors as well that have helped me in the past.
	I have not had to crowdfund previously because I've had some private donors and other nonprofit organizations that have helped me.
	With my defense on other matters, and I'm incredibly grateful for that.
	Obviously, a criminal defense is different than a civil defense or a subpoena in front of a congressional committee.
	And so some of those kind of nonprofit lines then...
	You know, shape this a little bit differently.
	And so I am very grateful for everyone across the board who has recognized that no matter what you agree with me on my personal views, we all need to come together as conservatives and recognize that this isn't just about Trump.
	It's not just about me.
	It's about targeting of pastors, you know, parents who have been put on domestic terrorism watch list because they dare to ask what's in their child's education.
	I mean, the pastors up in Canada that were literally jailed for their faith in the midst of COVID.
	I mean, this to me is a fully...
	A larger effort of the left to have this attack against anyone who goes against their narrative in any walk of life.
	So this is well beyond Trump.
	It's well beyond me and the people who see that and appreciate that.
	I've even had Democrats, Democrat friends of mine who have supported me, have given a lot to the legal fund because they recognize that this is wrong.
	I've had people openly on Twitter say, I don't like you, I disagree with you 98% of the time, but what they're doing is wrong and I'm going to support you.
	And that is principled and I do respect that.
	I had a thought it was about what some people will perceive to be the hypocrisy of jumping on the DeSantis camp and railing against Trump when all of these tactics will be used against DeSantis to the extent that they're going to be effective if they are effective against Trump.
	And I don't care how wealthy anybody is.
	Nobody has, in as much as one can imagine how much this is all going to cost everybody, people don't have that type of cash lying around just to burn on legal fees.
	I know the concern that they're going to get someone to flip in here, but that I can't ask you.
	I know you can't answer.
	What is it like showing up to court and having a mugshot?
	Did you plan your blue steel face in advance or was it spontaneous?
	No, you know, I planned that and I at least wanted to smile because this whole exercise in forcing all of us to come down to Atlanta and actually surrender ourselves and be taken into custody and get a mugshot, I mean, it was totally unnecessary.
	All of us, I believe, based on the media reports, other than Harrison Floyd, had what's called a consent bond.
	You know what that is, but for other maybe non-lawyers, it's where the district attorney and the counsel that's representing the defendant enter into an agreement on the amount and the conditions of bond.
	It's signed off by the judge.
	And so typically, you can just go and post your bond.
	None of this ever happens.
	I mean, none of us have criminal histories.
	You know, other than Harrison Floyd.
	And I think that's kind of why he got tripped up a little bit in terms of not being able to post a consent bond based only on what I've read.
	I don't know all of those particulars.
	What's his criminal history unrelated to the incident with the FBI that was reported?
	I think, at least from what I'm reading, that was part because he has an ongoing assault charge against an FBI agent.
	That was reported, at least.
	Right.
	And so because he has that ongoing assault case, then there were other complications to his bond.
	And it was also not true that the judge denied bail, at least as far as the video that I saw.
	What, in my view and my understanding, happened was that the judge simply declined to set bond.
	To allow the presiding judge in this particular case to go ahead and determine that she wanted to defer to his discretion.
	And people, you know, they can agree or disagree with that, but she didn't deny bail.
	So other than Harrison Floyd, for the rest of us, nobody had criminal history.
	I mean, you have a former sitting president of the United States that is dragged into this dirty, filthy jail just as a parade of an exercise of petty tyranny.
	And so for me, I knew that this was going to be an exercise in an attempt to humiliate, intimidate, and demoralize us.
	And so I wanted to go in there with the victory that I have in the joy of the Lord, knowing I'm totally innocent of any of these charges.
	And in fact, my lawyers are going to be submitting a not guilty plea on my behalf later this week if they haven't already.
	So, you know, I can disclose that, that I'm pleading not guilty to all of this.
	And so I wanted to just go in and say, I'm unaffected by this because, and this is the thing, David, that so many people need to understand about my Christian faith.
	This is not new for me.
	This isn't just a, you know, I'm going to post a tweet with a random verse that is an affirmation getting me through the day like a fortune cookie.
	My faith has been rooted and grounded in who I am and my understanding of the reality to which I'm presented.
	This is something that I have lived through, have grown in since I was young.
	I was raised in a Christian home, but my faith became my own when I actually went through a crisis of faith in law school.
	And it was because law is taught as this totally arbitrary thing that whoever is the sovereign or whoever is weaponizing it, for example, right now, can determine.
	What justice requires.
	And justice to me, if you look at the person of God, who is the standard of truth, of moral uprightness, right and wrong, good and evil, that objective standard that's outside of man, that God gives us through the Bible.
	And tells us what the full scope of the truth is in terms of who we are made in the image of God.
	We have inherent dignity and worth.
	All of us are sinners.
	We fall short of the glory of God.
	Our only hope for salvation is believing on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that we believe that he came in human flesh.
	He died and he rose again three days later.
	And if we acknowledge him and confess with our mouth that he is Lord, we will be saved and we will spend eternity with him.
	That is the truth of the gospel.
	I believe that.
	I'm not a Christian because I believe in Christ like he's Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.
	I believe that the biblical worldview for the human condition we all have to answer life's most important questions.
	Who are we?
	Why are we here?
	Who is God?
	What is the truth?
	The biblical worldview is the best explanation for the reality to which we are presented.
	The problem of sin, the problem of evil, the problem of injustice.
	And so if we look through the scope of world history and even church history, there have been people who have been martyred for their faith.
	There are people who have gone through way worse circumstances than I'm in, but they will not deny the truth of the Lord because they know that He is real.
	And he is good all the time.
	And Romans 8, 28 says, all things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose.
	That is true.
	It's not just an affirmation.
	So for me going in to this mugshot to say, okay, I'm the one being targeted by an unjust, weaponized government.
	I am going to be resolved that here is where my faith meets adversity.
	And I'm not going to pretend that I'm being persecuted, you know, like the martyrs of Christian history.
	But I am being persecuted well beyond some other Christians who've had to stand up for their faith.
	This isn't a measuring contest.
	What it is, is saying, does your faith withstand this pressure?
	And I wanted to show that my faith matters to me.
	I know that it's real.
	And I know that I have hope for eternity.
	So it doesn't really matter what happens to me on this earth.
	Now, I'm going to fight.
	With everything and every legal defense that I have.
	And that's why I'm grateful for the people who support me.
	But at the end of the day, my hope is not in this life or in my bar license.
	My hope is in Christ alone.
	I can anticipate arguments and things that people might want to argue with here.
	We don't have much time left.
	I'm going to ask you this.
	Harrison Faulkner.
	Who's Harrison Faulkner?
	He's an actor.
	She's on Fox.
	He's great.
	So no, I'm thinking of Harrison Floyd.
	You put out a tweet and it says, it's a jab, it's a needle, it's politics, but people are going to get very partisan angry at you.
	Trump can afford $100,000 for Melania's hair.
	He can afford $10,000 for Harrison's bond.
	So people are going to get mad at the form, and you can understand that.
	And some are going to say it's pretty stupid to try to piss off not the base, but the people that you might now need the support of.
	Set that aside.
	Others might say, Strategically, what you're proposing is unfair because in as much as you can't answer certain questions because you're currently under indictment, Trump probably cannot fund the bond of one of the co-defendants if he's asked not to...
	By the way, his PAC can, and they've even set up what they're calling a Patriot Defense Fund, something like that.
	And so they have even suggested that they're going to help some specific individuals.
	They haven't said who.
	But insofar as they have set up that fund, they could fundraise for this defense.
	But my view is Trump wants all of the money as he wants to figure out how he wants to spend it.
	And so I have at least been told.
	That the PAC is not going to be funding anyone, and I personally think that that's shameful.
	Okay.
	Sorry, I just got distracted because the screen in the back started playing your answer again.
	Okay.
	Fair enough.
	We can have the debate among lawyers, legal critical thinkers.
	You know the arguments.
	You know what people are going to say.
	I anticipated the answer was going to be a PAC can post the bond, but Trump obviously cannot because he can't have contact with the defendant.
	Some people are going to say, but it's an unfair framing, and it's certainly an unnecessary attack, and it's a DeSantis simp who's now going after Team Trump, stabbing him in the back, and you know where that's going to go.
	But let me just say one thing real quick.
	I am not going to change who I am or my political views in order for you to donate to me.
	I would be disingenuous.
	Why would you even want me to do that?
	If I suddenly changed my tune and said, oh, MAGA people, you know, please love me and I'm going to say everything that you want and I'm going to renounce my support of DeSantis, then why would you support that?
	Why would you even want that?
	That would be disingenuous.
	So again, love me or hate me, we can debate all of the politics about it, but you're always going to know what I think and why I think it.
	And the bottom line is, support everyone.
	Everyone in this indictment, all 19 of us, support us against the weaponization of government.
	Do I dare ask you the question?
	I'm going to get into the DeSantis stuff with Justin, who's coming on after.
	But if DeSantis...
	Do you still think...
	I like DeSantis.
	Do you still think he has a snowball's chance in summer of getting the nomination?
	Well, you know, I will say that I've been very disappointed in how he's handled the media, and I do think that he should do the right thing.
	And I actually posted a tweet that said, I support DeSantis.
	I'll defend that.
	I support Trump against the weaponization of government.
	I'll defend that.
	But I do think that Governor DeSantis should come out very strongly and condemn the weaponization of government across the board and specifically mention Donald Trump.
	I don't care if that's his political opponent.
	It's the right thing to do.
	And so I will be vocally critical.
	I love him because I haven't endorsed him.
	I don't work for him.
	I don't get a cent from anyone of his PAC, his campaign affiliates, anything.
	I support him because I do think he's the best candidate.
	I'm going to criticize him when criticism is due.
	So I think he should be stronger in that.
	Listen, he chose to run in a cycle where the former sitting president is getting indicted.
	You're just going to have to deal with that.
	And I think he needs to deal with that more directly.
	And I'm honestly disappointed in that.
	And I have told other people around him that I'm disappointed in that.
	But I also do think that he still is the best candidate.
	And I also think...
	He is not the type of person that is a media mogul like Donald Trump.
	You are never, even Vivek, who's great, and I know Vivek personally, I think he's great on media.
	No one is ever going to be Donald Trump.
	He is the king of media, totally.
	But I am not looking for a president.
	Or a public official that is great on media and then doesn't have super great personnel choices, has all of the policy issues that we all should be discussing.
	DeSantis, in my view, understands the powers of government and how to use those so much more effectively.
	I want someone who is a commander who will marshal a team together and who can work with the legislature on the federal level to actually get things done.
	So my pitch for DeSantis is...
	Listen, if you want the weaponization of government on the federal level to stop, you can support Trump for all time.
	But if you really want results, Governor DeSantis has proven that he knows that and he is the one to get it done.
	That's why I support him.
	And I can hear the chat screaming.
	DeSantis, you know, made the joke about the hush porn money.
	Instead of taking a hard stand then, he, you know, looks around to see who's raising their hand about supporting Trump.
	And then even if he comes around and does this now, they'll say it's just, you know, it's political what Vivek did, you know, licking the finger and going with the wind.
	So some people might say that, you know, your support is nice, but his conduct up to now has already...
	Proven that even if he takes that position now, it's not necessarily what he believes.
	Then why are people asking that of me?
	Like, why are they saying, oh, well, you know, Jenna, go back and support Trump now that you want our help?
	I mean, why would you think that that would be, why are you asking me to do something that you're going to condemn him either way, no matter what he does?
	And this is the thing that people who don't support DeSantis, I think, really need to reconsider, is that if you are going to always view anything that he does through a political lens and in the worst way possible, Then you're never going to like anything that he does.
	You're always going to find an argument against him.
	We can all argue really well.
	You're going to always find that against him.
	What I would encourage people to do is actually look at his record.
	Actually look at what he's done in the state of Florida, where Donald Trump moved to Florida.
	He actually voted for Governor DeSantis.
	And until five minutes before the re-election, he was a supporter of Governor DeSantis.
	And so what I really hate...
	Is all of this petty politicking.
	I wish that both sides would not, DeSantis wouldn't ignore Trump and Trump would not trash DeSantis.
	Let's all agree that both of those guys are way better than anybody the Democrats are going to put up for 2024.
	I would take either of them in a heartbeat.
	So we can have this internal debate and we can point out things that are true and we can have our snarky comments and whatever.
	But at the same time, don't suggest that either of them Are worse than Joe Biden.
	I mean, the worst thing you could possibly do is say, if DeSantis gets the nomination, hey, I'm sitting it out.
	Then you are not a principled person.
	You're not for America.
	You are only part of a Donald Trump fan club.
	And that's not what I'm a part of.
	I am, my fidelity and loyalty is to the U.S. Constitution and to this great country.
	And I'm going to exercise my vote in the very best way possible.
	Last question, I guess, before you go.
	I'm just reading one of the Rumble rants from Rumble.
	It says, Jenna says liberty and freedom yet supports the firing of Gavin over a simple Twitter beef.
	I think I remember this.
	That was, Gavin was from the Babylon Bee?
	He, yeah.
	And so, okay, so I'm not sure I really get the question, but in terms of that whole thing, Gavin, in my view, you know, he posted a tweet.
	That was very vulgar and rude toward Christina Pushaw, who works for DeSantis.
	And he's doing that while he's an employee.
	And then when Seth Dillon actually stepped in and said, you know, basically, hey, dude, chill.
	Then Gavin took a shot back at his boss.
	And anybody who knows, I mean, yes, you have free speech and all that.
	But if you're working for an organization, then they have the right to fire you if you don't.
	Go along with what they're asking you to do or if you take cheap shots at your boss.
	I mean, so I think that people, you know, whether you like or respect Gavin or the Babylon Bee in any other context, you have to actually look at what happened here.
	And it wasn't that I was, you know, championing this, you know, and I had no conversations with Seth Dillon about it.
	I was just watching this happen like everybody else on Twitter and then posted the update.
	But I think that it's absolutely a right of a company.
	To fire someone for being openly insubordinate.
	And free speech and freedom and liberty, that's a government perspective.
	The government can't come in and censor me.
	But can my employer in some ways?
	Absolutely.
	There are certain things that your employer can't do.
	And this is all based on employment law and precedent.
	Your employer, some people, for example, who work at a local coffee shop, if they say, hey, you need to dress in a certain way and you can't have certain messages on your t-shirt or on your hat when you come and you're working, they're not commenting on your personal life.
	But that's not censorship.
	And so we have to separate this whole understanding of, is it the government that is censoring us?
	Or does it go against your employment contract?
	Those are two very different considerations.
	And so what Seth Dillon did to Gavin when he was openly insubordinate, he has the right to do that as an employer.
	I could steal, man, that, but that was just to read.
	Just so that it doesn't look like I'm ignoring a tough question that came in via Super Chat or Rumble Rant.
	Jenna, first things, well, you're going to go do your show now.
	What is your show called?
	Where can people find you and where can people support you?
	If they so choose to support your legal battle, even if they find your tweets antagonizing, insulting, partisan, DeSantis simping, where can people find you?
	Thanks so much.
	You can find me at the JennaEllisShow.com.
	That's my Salem media show.
	And you can find my radio show at the American Family Radio Network, AFR.net.
	And if you would like to support me, pray for me.
	Please do pray for everyone who is going through the targeting of the weaponization of government.
	You can support me, GiveSendGo.com slash support Jenna.
	That's GiveSendGo.com.
	Slash support Jenna.
	And thank you to everyone who is willing to put all of the politics aside and to support this because it is the principled thing to do.
	And I really appreciate everyone who has donated to my defense.
	Flip me the links and I'll put them in the pinned comment afterwards in any event.
	But Jenna, thank you very much for coming on.
	And we'll see each other on Twitter.
	Sounds good.
	Yeah, it's the wild, wild west out there.
	And I love it.
	So it's great.
	It is an unfriendly environment, and you have to expect to get what you give for good and for bad on Twitter.
	Yeah, totally true.
	And I would just say everybody, you know...
	We can debate the facts, but don't read into people, you know, into their comments or other things.
	You know, some of those things I think are disingenuous debates.
	I mean, let's debate like adults and let's disagree and have healthy disagreement.
	And I think we should be talking about who's the best candidate for the 2024 election.
	And I look forward to coming back and watching what Justin has to say.
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	Awesome.
	See you soon.
	All right.
	Bye-bye.
	Now, Justin is in the backdrop, everybody.
	But before I bring him in...
	I am going to read three more Rumble rants, which were not directly related to Jenna.
	In the Rumble section, we've got Beefers, who says, anyone ever notice how Viva champions Bernier for being anti-lockdown but doesn't dare entertain criticism of Trump for not firing Fauci?
	Gives a limp-handed, well, it might not have been a diff.
	Beefers, are you new to the channel?
	You must be new to the channel, and this is what we call a straw man of a position because I have criticized Trump a number of times.
	Jesus, did you not see the question that I put on Twitter the other day?
	All right, thank you for the rumble rant, and I think we missed half of it, but it doesn't matter.
	Don't steal, man, because it makes it very straw man.
	It makes it very easy to say you mischaracterized everything.
	Champions, Bernier.
	I ran for the People's Party of Canada.
	And if Bernier screws up or says something stupid, I'll call Bernier out too.
	Okay, we got that one.
	Arkansas Crime Attorney, you are doing a great job, Viva.
	This is why I have watched you for years.
	Arkansas Crime Attorney, Little Rock on YouTube.
	Thank you very much.
	And Tuxedo Blackfoot.
	Trump gave Fauci a presidential commendation, protected pharma from accountability, and recently supported McCarthy for speaker.
	DeSantis is worse in my opinion, but blindly forming mobs for Trump, Well, I think a lot of people have rightly criticized Trump for a number of those things and rightly say he's got some answers to answer, some questions to answer on the Jibby Jab, my 3D Jean Le Carré-level conspiracy.
	When it becomes undeniable, the jibby jab side effects, the next play against Trump is to make it look like he knew the adverse reactions.
	He was involved in strong-arming people to falsify records, whatever, and that he covered it up because he wanted his signature crown on his presidency of the Warp Speed successful jibby jab, which turned out to be what it is.
	All right.
	If you hadn't had enough of the DeSantis discussion, we're going to have Justin Hart on now.
	Justin Hart.
	On and now.
	His name is not Justin Hardon.
	And I said jokingly that I think he's going to come and try to proselytize DeSantis to a Trump crowd.
	It's not going to be that way, but he's certainly going to try to explain to me why he thinks Trump has a 50-50, not Trump, DeSantis has a 50-50 chance of getting the nomination.
	And if the explanation for that wildly optimistic prediction is anything other than they could pull the same crap that the DNC pulled to get Hillary over Bernie, I'll listen.
	But Justin has also been on for a sidebar nine months ago, which I was rewatching to make sure I remembered everything about him.
	So a lot of you liked him back then.
	In fact, I know all of you liked him back then.
	So if you don't like him now, it's only because of politics.
	So let's bring in Justin.
	Justin, you ready?
	Three, two, one.
	Sir.
	Hey!
	Great to see you again.
	The same.
	Now, I dare say...
	What's that?
	I thought you were Ted Cruz for a second.
	Ted Cruz wants...
	You know, I get that.
	I get that a lot.
	If I'm walking around one of these events and I have my glasses on, I look like Ted.
	And I'll actually feign it sometimes.
	And I'll sign books.
	We're about the same age, too, he and I. The last time you were on, or the first time you were on...
	Had the book come out yet, gone viral?
	I think it had just come out.
	I think it had come out in October of last year, so it was part of that tour.
	How is it performing?
	Very well-received.
	Regnery Books, goneviralbook.com.
	You can still get it out there.
	It basically tells a very accessible story to everything we went through over the last three years.
	For some reason, all of a sudden, I got pinned as the leader of a ragtag bunch of Battlestar Galactica experts, analysts, moms and dads and activists, and that's been my life for the last three years.
	My day job, though, over the last 25 years mostly has been politics.
	I am a political fundraiser.
	I mostly am a strategist over digital fundraising.
	I started in 1998 doing tech support on Capitol Hill.
	I worked my way up to my own consulting firm.
	I had Chuck DeVore, who was a fantastic...
	I was a candidate during the 2010 candidacy against Barbara Boxer.
	I did consulting for Sarah Palin.
	I did fundraising for Rick Santorum.
	I ended up at the end on the Mitt Romney campaign at the end of 2012.
	And like every Republican, we all supported him to the end.
	I left politics after losing the big game and left for about nine years or eight or nine years.
	Still doing it on the side, but they always pull you back.
	And so my day job, if your audience will forgive me, is fundraising over text messages.
	And it works pretty well.
	It is the main digital channel right now for all campaigns.
	And I do work for all the campaigns on this.
	Yeah, I remember Barnes made the same joke the last time.
	People probably hate you because I hate getting text messages.
	Although I don't really get that many.
	Justin, I'm not even sure that I asked this the last time.
	2016.
	Yes.
	Who did you support?
	Oh, Trump.
	Absolutely.
	In fact, I predicted that Trump was going to win, much to the chagrin of my family, friends, and co-workers then.
	Yes.
	Registered Republican?
	Registered Republican.
	Yes, absolutely.
	I voted in almost, I'm sure I voted in every primary since I was 20, maybe.
	And then 2020?
	2020 voted for Trump again and thought he was the best case we had for doing what we had.
	But if you recall, I'm not a Johnny-come-lately critique of Trump.
	Go back.
	I can peg it to the hour.
	It was 4 p.m. Eastern time.
	It was in the Rose Garden, March 29, 2020.
	That was on that fateful day.
	That President Trump, alongside of Vice President Pence and Birx and Fauci and the rest of them, all declared that they were extending the two-week shutdown for another 30, 40 days.
	And I tweeted out that time, I said, two things just happened.
	The federal government just extended their guidelines for COVID shutdowns another 30, 40 days, and...
	He just lost the election.
	And I've been very sad to be proven right on that.
	I held that view.
	I voted for him, but right up until the end of November, I said he was going to lose.
	And I knew that just as a seasoned political guy looking at demographics.
	I knew that if this impacted the elderly vote, even by 2%, 3%, 4%, they stayed home, they didn't feel comfortable, or they felt bad about the COVID response or otherwise, one way or another.
	He was going to lose.
	Now, when the shenanigans happened in 2020 after the election, as you remember, I had a full-time data crew.
	We were the main data team behind Scott Atlas when he was at the White House trying to right the ship and change the policies that they had adopted so readily for, what, four, five, six months before he came.
	In the late summer, early fall.
	And so we worked with him almost every day to make that happen.
	Now when the election happened, I turned all of my attention to the team to understand what Now, that famous, infamous chart that you might recall of Wisconsin, the one that President Trump held up at what he called his most important talk ever, I think this was mid-December, early December, right before the certifications.
	He held up a chart on Wisconsin.
	And it showed, for example, that midnight rendezvous of big bursts of votes that came in, right, at 2 a.m., 3 a.m. there.
	And we noted, we had, you know, these are the feeds that the media get, and this is what we were looking at.
	He retweeted that.
	It became my biggest tweet of all time.
	And, you know, I was proud to find that data.
	But since that time, I've come to understand a lot more things.
	Most importantly, I am still sorely.
	I'm sorely disappointed about President Trump and his reaction to COVID.
	I waited eagerly in November when he rebid for his nomination and I wrote an op-ed that was published in the Wall Street Journal talking about how the lockdowns and his ignoring his hand in that and in the vaccines precluded another nomination.
	He doesn't deserve it.
	Okay, I'll preface this by saying I'm not here to stump for Trump, period.
	I publicly say that I think who I think is capable of dealing with the onslaught of deep state attack, I don't think DeSantis is.
	But in as much as I like and respect DeSantis and have moved to Florida and voted with my feet, bringing it back to one thing where you said, you know, you announced that, you know, you made the tweet he's going to lose March 29th, 4 o 'clock, 2020.
	Being right for the wrong reasons might feel...
	You were right.
	You might be right for the wrong reasons.
	If you say, you know, people didn't want to come out to vote, 75 million people.
	How many people voted for Trump in 2016?
	I can't remember.
	But yeah, you're right.
	The numbers were actually very dramatically higher.
	But the irony of this whole thing was that the trouble that he had in all of the states that proved problematic for 2020 were in states that completely changed.
	The way they vote.
	17 of them, right?
	And that was at the behest of the recommendations of his CDC and the $400 million he gave to the Election Assistance Committee.
	Okay, I was going to say it was something different than that, that the change in those states did not result from COVID policy, but rather from fortification, changing rules, controlling the free-for-all.
	So in as much as you were right for the potentially the wrong reasons to say more people came out to vote for Trump in 2020 that I don't think is accounted for by population growth.
	So some might take issue with the argument that people were not happy with Trump.
	People did not turn out.
	But some people might say 81 million people.
	My ass turned out for Joe Biden.
	And that had nothing to do with covid.
	That had to do with election fortification, which covid was exploited to facilitate.
	Yeah, well, the question is, you know, what's your evidence for that, right?
	The challenge that people have, like you look at Georgia, the claim was that there were 2,056 felons that voted.
	The claim was that there were 10,000 people that voted that hadn't yet turned 18 but were 18. The claim was some 40,000 on other issues.
	And each one of those issues mostly came from Matt Dibwod and for his analysis there.
	And his analysis was done through L2 data.
	L2 is a major data platform.
	Anyone in politics uses it for technology.
	And he mapped it against the voter database.
	And so a Will Smith, who was a felon...
	Yeah, I have no explanation exactly what happened because there is no sort of line of transfer in the media data.
	Now, the data that I was working with is the data that feeds in.
	To Fox News, feeds into MSNBC, feeds into the New York Times, and it's provided by several different systems.
	But it's a terrible, terrible system, and it shouldn't be accounted for as the thing, right?
	And so it likely was a big burst of Milwaukee votes, but I have no way of knowing.
	And we have a couple of counts in Pennsylvania, in Wisconsin, but most of those, for example, the one in, I think, Wisconsin, where there was a county that had a count, or I think it was Pennsylvania, and the county clerk basically said, hey, look, I can't give you an absentee ballot.
	Just write down that you're sick, right?
	And the judge ruled, no, you can't do that, right?
	But all of those were done, again, under the rubric of a law of changes of COVID.
	Here in California, we would not have.
	Governor Gavin Newsom, if it wasn't for the change and the illegal change that Gavin Newsom had, and they later codified into law with the legislature, for mail-at-home ballots.
	If it was a special election and it was all about who you got to the polls, we would have ousted him.
	But when you're just mailing out your ballots from home, and that, again, was the recommendation from the CDC with the $400 million going to the EAC, handed out to the states so they could do whatever they wanted.
	And so that was a huge impact as to why things, you know, really went south for Trump there.
	This is why I love these discussions, Justin, because I now understand, well, first of all, I understand where your point of contention is and I understand where I think it's just objectively wrong in that, just on this one point.
	Yeah.
	This is why I hate these specific examples where people are like, oh, there was that claim of 87 dead people voting.
	The dominion was the ultimate distraction.
	I go not 30,000 foot overview.
	I'm just going to go a little more broadly.
	2,000 mules accounts for all of it.
	So these specific examples where you might be right is to say, OK, well, 2,000 votes here, 2,000 votes there.
	They made some mistakes.
	The Pelican briefcase was actually legitimate ballots.
	I don't care about that.
	81 million votes from mail-in ballots is going to have an impact somewhere.
	And it had the impact.
	And set aside the unsubstantiated stories that got Giuliani and Sidney Powell in trouble.
	Mail-in balloting.
	Controlling the free flow of information.
	I think you were right in that Trump lost the election.
	COVID was weaponized to change all of the rules.
	But these...
	I'll say insignificant but isolated examples are not what swung the scales.
	It was the wholesale weaponization of everything.
	And so you ended up being right, but maybe not for the reasons that you thought were the right reasons at the time.
	Well, is it your contention that there's some vast conspiracy coordinated across all the states on these things?
	I mean, were there ballots really coming in from North Korea into Maine as Roger Stone supports?
	And were ballots being flipped on Dominion software systems?
	No, first of all, I can't appropriate Barnes'opinion on this.
	Barnes was right.
	No, this was a distraction, arguably a PSYOP from the beginning, so that the Giuliani's, the Sidney Powell's, the Lillian's.
	So they don't have any responsibility in that?
	Well, they do.
	They do.
	I mean, it's just it was it was horrendous stuff.
	We all witnessed that terrible debacle after the election early January when they all got up on stage with Ali Akbar, who I've known for years and knew that he was going to be in trouble and with other people up there.
	And that ruined any chance that we had of getting back the Senate for the Republicans.
	And that was directly the fault of the Kraken, of Giuliani.
	I mean, it's a huge problem.
	They've got to have some responsibility for that.
	I think Sidney Powell, Giuliani do and Trump to Trump to some extent.
	But the only issue here is I didn't and I take flack from some of our supporters because I don't believe in the German servers.
	I don't believe in the vote flipping.
	I believe it was just much more.
	It's exactly as they described it in the Time magazine.
	OK, they they were about harvesting ballots, whether or not you want to call it that.
	And that's how they did it.
	Eighty one million votes.
	I do not and will not ever believe 81 million people voluntarily voted for Joe Biden.
	I don't believe it.
	So it's a difficult thing I mean, the budget for the EAC up until 2020 was about, I think, $70 million.
	I think it was like $14 million.
	$14 million was their budget.
	They got, in 2020, a grant of $800 million.
	They spent $400 million of that doling it out to the states, and the states could do whatever they wanted.
	Ballot harvesting, mail-in ballots.
	And then in 2022, I had predicted we were going to have a red wave up until about two weeks before the election, and I saw the mail-in ballot numbers, and I said, we're screwed again.
	And we're screwed again because COVID policies weren't rolled back in 17 different states.
	And then, you know, that basically precluded.
	When you have on the day of the election, Fetterman versus our other shiny green guy there, whatever, in Pennsylvania.
	What was his name?
	I can't remember now.
	Dr. Oz.
	Dr. Oz, right?
	I can't remember his name because he lost, right?
	So Dr. Oz and Fetterman are going to town.
	1.1 people came out to vote for Oz on the day of election.
	Only 700,000 people came out to vote for the day on Fetterman.
	That's because another 1.2 million came out to him and mailed in the ballots weeks before.
	And now we have Donald Trump even Well, that's fair enough.
	Strategically, I do recall expressing the thought at the time they were not keeping up with the lawfare.
	They were certainly falling behind and allowing the rules to be manipulated.
	Oh, yeah, legit.
	Now, but the question is this.
	And I also understand you turning and saying, look, locking down this is bullshit and I'm not going to support anybody who supports it.
	Then the argument is going to be, well, DeSantis, you know, shut down the beaches.
	I remember sitting in Canada saying, holy crap, spring break is cancelled.
	He's apologizing for this.
	He's shutting down the beaches.
	It makes no sense.
	Whether or not he learned faster than Trump, like some of my back and forth on Twitter have been respectful, but addressing this and calling it out to purport that DeSantis was any more perfect than Trump.
	But wait, no, no.
	DeSantis has spent the last...
	So March 9th, DeSantis declares a state of emergency.
	Two days later, the NCAA cancels their March Madness.
	Schools are closed on March 13th.
	Now, schools in Florida close already by May, so they cancel the rest of the school year, like the entire country did, basically.
	By April 29th, though, DeSantis had announced a reopening.
	And then he mandated by law that schools had to go back into service by July.
	And he spent the next three years passing legislation to make sure that nothing like this ever happens again.
	There is mandated law that counties cannot mask kids.
	They cannot require mandates.
	So and he's on tape.
	And so I would have loved Trump to spend the last three years saying, my gosh, that was a terrible decision.
	And I can't believe that I ever supported the vaccine.
	I can't believe I ever called myself the father of the vaccine like he did like three months ago.
	And I wish he were taking that steps to say this was a mistake.
	And this I wish his supporters would acknowledge.
	Don't gaslight me into telling me, oh, he never did anything.
	He didn't lock down anything.
	That was Fauci's excuse.
	Don't let Trump get away with that.
	And again and again, when I look at his hires, Fauci, I look at Birx, I look at all these people that he went, whether it was Barr, Nugent, Chow, Amorosa, Scaramucci, I mean, does the list go on?
	He supposedly only hires the best, and yet, you know, people say, well, he's the only guy who can drain the swamp.
	He hired the swamp instead and then had to fire them.
	I just don't understand.
	I love the first three years, but we can't just wave away the last year like it didn't exist.
	Some of that I would not disagree with, I think, and some of that you can't disagree with.
	Still taking credit for the jab, still touting the success of...
	Maybe the numbers aren't yet in, and everybody likes to assume 4D chess, and maybe the numbers aren't in for him to allow himself to now say, I was lied to by this administration about the jab in as much as I was lied to about how many troops we have left in Syria.
	And look, I can't disagree with some of the stuff you said about DeSantis either because it's one of the reasons why we decided to get the heck out of Canada, which is now masking back up again, if you can believe it, to come down here.
	So we'll be able to agree on some of the points in the middle.
	I just fundamentally don't think that DeSantis would be able to deal with what Trump is dealing with.
	I think Trump probably has learned some lessons from the first time around.
	I think DeSantis hasn't learned a lesson.
	I won't say it multiple times on the same channel, but...
	In as much as DeSantis is not vocally protesting what they're doing to Trump and almost seems to tacitly accept it, if he thinks they're not going to come after him for kidnapping charges or human trafficking for what he did with Martha's Vineyard, he's deluding himself.
	And if they don't come after him for that, some people are going to think that he's playing the game, and that's why they're not coming after him for that.
	The question is this.
	You said 50-50 that DeSantis has the chances of getting the nomination.
	I'm not American.
	I know how it works, roughly.
	And it seems that the states make up their own rules as to how they get their delegates down there, and they don't have to go with any sort of popular vote.
	They can issue their delegates to support the candidate of their choice.
	So I understand the GOP...
	No, no, it's not rigged.
	It's basically the timing, right?
	The thing is, and you saw with the debate, Twitter is not real life, right?
	Like, we have these big internecine battles, and it gets very heated and everything else there.
	But I guarantee you, no one knows who I am.
	No one knows necessarily outside of my family who Laura Loomer is or anything else there, right?
	And if you go ask, you think about your own family, okay?
	How many of your family, extended family, are actually on Twitter?
	How many of them actually are paying attention to politics?
	How many of them could tell you, you show them the latest meme, and they go, I have no idea what you're talking about, right?
	And so the only places that people start taking attention is when things start heating up, and we have the first taste of that.
	In fact, you know, we have from data that was gleaned from Twitter that about 14 million people watched President Trump on Twitter.
	He had lots of views, but it came out to about 14 million individual.
	We know that the debates came up roughly to 12 to 14 million as well.
	And that was the first introduction that people had there.
	And you saw immediately the positive numbers for DeSantis.
	He cut in half the lead in many states that Trump had.
	He cut in half.
	You had Vivek, whose negatives went through the roof in Iowa and New Hampshire.
	And the way this works, and this happens all the time, you get into Iowa.
	If you win Iowa and you win New Hampshire, there's been a month before South Carolina.
	It's a very strong case.
	Already, DeSantis has 13,000 pledges for caucus.
	Cruz didn't get that until November.
	And so I think he feels very strong about exactly where he is positioned in the state.
	I think it's a very good chance that he wins in Iowa, especially with President Trump railing against their governor.
	And then he's railing even more against the governor in New Hampshire, and it looks like he's probably going to come out and endorse DeSantis.
	I think Nikki Haley will make a play there.
	I think if DeSantis comes in second, he'll do very well there in New Hampshire.
	And then it's a race to South Carolina, and it may come down to Trump.
	To DeSantis and to Nikki.
	Would I rather be in President Trump's position?
	Absolutely.
	I remember one of my colleagues at the end of the Romney campaign was asked by the press and said, what would you have done differently?
	And he said, I would have run as an incumbent.
	I mean, there's a huge advantage to having that sort of play.
	And so he has the upper hand, absolutely.
	But this is not over by a long shot.
	The Wednesday debate was just the tip of the ball.
	This is the first inning.
	Well, if I'm laughing, it's only because I'm reading some of the chat and a number of people are saying you're delusional.
	Well, you saw the comments.
	I mean, just take a moment.
	We talked about this.
	I think you were in the comments on the tweet last night.
	Proposing this show for Jenna and myself, right?
	And you saw a lot of people saying, I don't even want to listen.
	I don't even want to talk.
	We hear that a lot of people do not want to engage on this issue and don't want to take the very specific critiques that I've made here, okay?
	Because they don't want to face up to the issue that President Trump is in a lot of trouble.
	Legally, we can fight for him and say he's completely, you know, the legal system has completely pulled one over on him and this is awful.
	But we can also at the same time make the determination he is not the best candidate for a winning ticket in 2024.
	Well, to the, a lot of people saying I'm tuning out and whatever.
	I mean, if there's a dozen people that said that out of a half a million followers on Twitter and however.
	We got some good viewers today, so I appreciate that.
	It's not a humble flex, people.
	It's just saying like, there's always the vocal individuals who, you know.
	And I don't even think people mean it.
	And I also don't care.
	I'm not going to avoid a discussion with someone.
	No.
	And I also appreciate I'm a little out of my wheelhouse in determining the veracity of what you just said just from a practical basis.
	Let's just say whatever you just said happens.
	He goes to Iowa and DeSantis wins Iowa despite polling at 2%.
	Okay, look.
	That to me sounds like...
	The same type of procedural rubbish that will piss everybody off to say, well, Hillary Clinton, she got the...
	It's not...
	The polls don't matter.
	It's who you get out to the polls, right?
	Iowa is unique because it's the caucus system, right?
	And so you can take an active poll.
	I do know what that means, but just explain what the caucus system means to others who may not...
	Yeah, so the caucus system is basically within certain counties and registrations.
	There are about 100...
	25 counties there in Iowa.
	And they get together and they take basically straw polls and they say, did anyone get, I think, 60% or over?
	And that they're the winner of that particular caucus.
	If they don't, then you go to the, you take another ballot.
	And so it's a crazy scene.
	Only in a few states do we have that sort of caucusing going on.
	But it's always the first one.
	So January 5th, right?
	I think it was, it's...
	Or is it 15th?
	I can't remember.
	But I think it's the 5th and then New Hampshire is the 15th.
	They'll come out and those are the two big one-twos.
	And that's when people really start to pay attention.
	When you go, I mean, go ask your uncle or your cousin or someone who's basically, you know, they're just a regular person.
	They're really...
	They're really not like you and I. We're so weird, right, Viva?
	I mean, everyone listening here is weird.
	Just accept it.
	You're unique.
	You're a peculiar people, as the good book says, right?
	If people look at my Twitter feed, they would think I'm weird.
	They might think even worse than that.
	But, Justin, I've got to read you a few of these.
	Health Force says, Viva, will Justin come on after DeSantis loses and tell us how wrong he was.
	Mighty Pes says, save this interview so he can eat his words.
	Well, I predicted Trump was going to win.
	I predicted he was going to lose.
	I predicted we were going to lose to 2022.
	I have a pretty good track record going, so we'll see.
	Hold on a second.
	I can push back there.
	It depends on, I don't know, when did you see, because you were initially for the red wave, so you predicted something.
	If you predicted both A and not A, when something happens, you could say you were right.
	I wrote an article, this was about a week before the midterms, and I said, this is not looking good.
	And it's because everyone thought the mail-in ballots were going to come down to regular levels, but they didn't.
	Yeah, but Justin, that's like saying that...
	The caucus, well, five minutes before the caucus, I'm going to say, oh, now it doesn't look so good for DeSantis.
	Okay, and also, I'll say this.
	I understand the procedure of the caucuses, and sometimes, I don't know, if it's as lawless as the DNC in terms of, we don't care, we're just giving our delegates to whomever.
	If there's a result that so wildly does not reflect what is clearly the will of the GOP base, well, okay, DeSantis gets the nomination, he's going to lose because Trump supporters are just going to say, F you, you F me, and by not getting our candidate that 60% of the base wants, and you stuck DeSantis in there.
	We're not going to vote for DeSantis, so enjoy losing the election.
	Look, everyone thought the same thing about McCain.
	Everyone thought the same thing about Romney.
	But in the end, people rallied and said, yeah, you know what, we'll try to get them.
	Now, they both lost, you're right, but they both lost about a really strong candidate, Barack Obama.
	And the question is, now, I think the one thing that Trump We're going to be hitting, perhaps, the greatest financial recession.
	That's my prediction based on everything I see there.
	It's going to make 2008 look a little bit like child's play in some sectors of the economy.
	And that's already starting to happen.
	And so that's going to be what we're both going to be walking into.
	Now, President Obama was able to weather that storm because of his personality and everything else and beat McCain.
	But again, when it came to people that were not very much like, I mean, everyone loathes, and even I have my problems with my former boss, Mitt Romney.
	But in the end, 2012, people said, this guy is actually probably the best guy for the job, even though he wasn't the best candidate.
	But I'm going to rally behind him, and most Republicans did.
	But he lost.
	You're right, he did.
	But you look back, and I think, in the end, you're going to find a lot of people rally to it.
	I think you're right.
	This is why DeSantis doesn't come out very strongly.
	And a lot of people on the DeSantis side say, I wish he would hit Trump harder, you know?
	And it's like, no, no.
	He understands that you have to recognize a big portion.
	I'm a MAGA guy, but at the same time, I think that it's a movement.
	It's not a person.
	We need to move beyond sort of the cult mystique of this thing.
	It's interesting.
	I'm going to fundamentally disagree with you.
	I don't think the problem is that people are saying hit Trump harder.
	I think people are saying defend Trump harder if you even wanted to entertain the notion of being the candidate of choice.
	People in the chat in vivabarneslaw.locals.com, Ant M says, sorry, Justin, he is the only candidate, only in caps, for the winning ticket.
	And then there was a...
	The only one who can really drain the swamp is RFK Jr.
	That's Jeanette Victoria.
	But I think there's a great many people out there rightly saying even if he's running for president or the nomination, he should be defending Trump more.
	That's my critique against DeSantis.
	Well, tell me this.
	So let's say Trump gets in the office.
	Who is going to work for him?
	Give me one member of his former cabinet who either won, he didn't fire, Two, still supports him.
	And three, you like what they did.
	Well, I think you're being...
	Tell me one.
	Think off the top of your head.
	I mean, Adam Gray, Bolton, Munchen, Kelly, Yamarosa.
	I will not impute Munchen.
	Tillerson.
	I will not impute intentions to the missing fourth or who won't because they're too scared that they're going to have their law licenses attacked come after by the deep state as well.
	So I say what you're describing right now is, look, he's going to be ineffective because the tactic worked.
	So even if he wins, he loses.
	And so that's an argument for why you have to give up all of this crap and rally behind him, even if you don't want to.
	Because you're right.
	Who would want to work for Trump under a second term, knowing that their entire livelihood will be attacked until they're decimated?
	And that's why you look at, for Kerry, Carrie Lake is the perfect example.
	Carrie Lake, super, incredibly engaging, looks terrific, great candidate, isn't afraid to take on the media, and yet she has wasted the last six months complaining about her election, just like Stacey Abrams in Georgia, and just like Stacey Abrams, she will never hold office.
	She will never hold office.
	She is not going to win that Senate seat.
	I'll be glad to come on and eat crow again on that.
	What are the odds?
	I'll bet on her.
	She is not going to win that.
	She is not going to win that state.
	Because people don't like a sore loser.
	And this is politics, and it gets stuff dirty.
	And yes, there were major problems.
	But at the same time, there was this great book that Hugh Hewitt wrote one time, which was, if it's not close, they can't cheat.
	And that's why we have to get a large majority of people pushing towards this.
	When you go out any single poll on the general national public, the people that are going to vote, and you ask them what they think about Donald Trump, his negatives are so very high, it's hard to make any case that he will win the election.
	I mean, give me a poll that his favorables are, you know, above 50. I do not have one offhand, but I think you might be wrong on that.
	But that's not what I was thinking about.
	I was thinking about the expression, if it's not close, you can't cheat.
	And I'm thinking about how everything that we're seeing right now is exactly how they would attempt to cheat.
	When it's not close, because I don't think it's close at this point in time.
	And I unfortunately think what you are proposing or what you're espousing is giving in to the cheating that's happening right now.
	This indictment crap, this...
	Using the results of the indictment crap as the explanation, justification for why they should support another candidate right now, because who would want to subject themselves to more of that deep state attack?
	That's exactly how they cheat.
	No, no, no.
	My support of DeSantis is based on he was the only, one of the only, I can name it on one hand.
	The number of elected officials who would give us the time of day to tell him in March of 2020, in April of 2020, to say, this is the wrong course.
	You need to change it.
	He listened to us.
	He listened to the experts that I brought him.
	He hired some people from my team because he knew this was the right course.
	He spent the last three years making up for it and saying, we are going to turn this thing around.
	Trump has done nothing to lift a finger for what was the single greatest mistake in American policy history, the COVID policy, and that was under Trump.
	And forget it.
	Forget about the lockdowns, the PPP loan fraud, right?
	The printing of mass amounts of money.
	One of the reasons we're in this financial predicament is because this stupid Munchen and Powell, who he put in at the Fed, decided to print a bunch of money and give you all free checks.
	I'll tell you right now, I'm not worried about mask mandates or lockdowns coming in.
	They're not going to do that.
	We won't let them do that.
	But when they start putting checks in your pocket again...
	Because the systems are all there, and because the financial downturn happens, you can bet they're going to win votes with that, and that's awful.
	And that all started under Trump.
	That massive $100 billion fraud that was managed by the Trump administration, the PPP loans, will go down in history as the most significant fraud and waste of money we've seen in a large time.
	And I think there needs to be people held accountable for that.
	Oh, first of all, I should just clarify, I don't think you're supportive of DeSantis' instance here, and I don't even think it's ill-founded.
	I think, you know, as far as it goes, if there were no Trump in this picture, for whatever the reason, let's just say he says...
	He'd be the guy, right?
	I kind of...
	Vivek has grown on me rapidly in the last couple of months, but mostly because of what I consider to be DeSantis' missteps vis-a-vis Trump.
	But if Trump said, look, oh God, no, I was going to say, if he cuts a deal and says, I won't run for office, just drop all the charges.
	If Trump were just not...
	Running again.
	I would be scared that DeSantis goes because I'd be scared what happens to Florida if he gets elected.
	Vivek has been growing on me.
	The rest of them are swamp creatures of the highest order, Chris Christie in particular.
	So I don't attack your support of DeSantis, but just under the circumstances, I think, you know...
	It's legitimate support, but he's not going to win, period.
	Vivek, I think, at this point, has a better chance than DeSantis, but maybe not.
	$2 million Vivek is out of this race.
	I mean, here's the thing.
	$27 million has been spent in negative ads against DeSantis, and he's in second place, okay?
	Trump has faced maybe $10 million in headwinds.
	When those ads start pouring in, and they will...
	I'll give you an example.
	When they do these tests, they go out to media markets.
	And broadcast media, believe it or not, is still the number one channel.
	I know people think, oh, I don't have any cable.
	Well, the average voter for a primary is 61 years old across the nation.
	I think 58, 61 in the early primary states.
	And so those folks, they're not on Twitter.
	They don't see you.
	They're not watching these YouTube podcasts.
	They'll watch a couple podcasts.
	But mostly they have Fox News on all day or they have other news items on.
	And so it's only when stuff comes up there.
	And that'll be the debates.
	And so this is really...
	I mean, the ball was just tipped up.
	We're still in the first inning.
	It's still so early.
	Justin, I just asked my chat.
	I need the rebuttal to that 27 million argument because I hear it.
	I know it's a talking point.
	And I know it is a superficial talking point.
	I just don't necessarily know that I have...
	These would be my follow-up questions.
	$27 million in negative ads.
	In negative ads against DeSantis, correct.
	It is a top getter.
	I think the next one is Trump at $10 million.
	$27 million against DeSantis.
	Who's spending it?
	It's Trump's PAC.
	Trump spent about $10 million in the first six months, and then there was a couple other related, I think, Dem-related PACs that spent against him as well.
	But most of it was spent by the Save America PAC and the four other PACs that Trump has.
	And here's the other example.
	I'm a fundraising guy.
	That's my expertise.
	And so I look at FEC reports all day long.
	I'm looking at these.
	I'm trying to understand what are people spending on, where are they going, and everything else there.
	I will tell you from a fundraising perspective, and again, I fundraise for all these people, including Trump.
	And the idea is what's super frustrating is here is Trump.
	And he's spending $40 million or more on his legal fees, okay?
	And I'm like, that could be a get-out-the-vote program.
	But more importantly, from a fundraising opportunity perspective, if he formed a legal defense fund, now he can go, you know, over, for example, for my channel over text messaging, when people opt out...
	And believe me, people opted out in droves this last time because people sent a lot of texts.
	And when that happens, when you have a new entity like a legal defense fund, you can now go to those people again.
	He had this huge opportunity to get fresh new ground, get fresh new donors.
	But instead, he decided to spend his campaign funds for his lawyers and lawyers for Jason Miller.
	I mean, are you okay with that?
	I'm going to double check the number on that.
	I'm not coming to a conclusion on that because it's the first time I've heard it.
	Google is right there.
	$40 million.
	They admitted it themselves.
	$40 million on Jason Miller's personal accounts.
	No, $40 million on Trump's legal fees.
	I think Jason Miller's and maybe one or two other people.
	Okay, but no.
	I need to know the breakdown.
	They don't tell the breakdown.
	But you might be able to figure out looking at...
	It was like 27 different law firms.
	It was crazy.
	I can understand that.
	Why are you spending campaign?
	This is why, for example, he raises all his money on his PAC, because a PAC has more, as Jenna just said, a PAC has more leeway as to how they can spend the money.
	Right?
	If he were raising this on his primary committee, the Make America Great Again 2024, Electron Trump, whatever it's called, right?
	If he was doing that, he'd have very specific disclosures.
	He'd have very specific things that he'd have to do to attest exactly what was happening in spending-wise.
	Save America can do it.
	They have a lot of leeway.
	And that's why they get away.
	Why isn't Trump paying for his own legal fees?
	Well, I mean, I could...
	I mean, can he afford it or can he?
	No, but I can seal that argument.
	And why was he...
	I mean, you know, the average person who donates to a political campaign is like, what, seven...
	I think they're...
	Actually, the average person is like 55 years old over text message, over direct mail, which is still almost king.
	It's like 80 years old.
	Hold on a second.
	The attack is, why isn't Trump personally paying for his legal fees to defend against these indictments?
	Why is he using campaign funds to do it?
	I think most people donating would want that.
	I think most people donating are donating because of that.
	Do most people who donate know that?
	Has anyone complained?
	Does that pensioner?
	I mean, if you go through the vast majority of these people who are retirees, right?
	And so they're sending their pension checks to Trump, you know, $50, $100 at a time, whatever.
	I would venture a guess if this would be something more like the build the wall type thing, where I don't know who's complaining, but it doesn't sound like the people who are donating that are complaining.
	But hold on, back it up one more thing, because you said 27 million negative ads, 10 million was Trump.
	Is that to say more than half is coming from Democrats?
	No, no, $27 million just against DeSantis, 10 million against Trump.
	But I said, who was spending it against Trump?
	Well, the DeSantis PACs, I think.
	Never Back Down.
	The other one, which I can't remember, it's Winback Big, or I can't remember what it's called there.
	Whose PACs are financing the anti-DeSantis ads?
	There's a couple.
	One is a specific DeSantis Clair PAC, and one of them is not.
	And then another one, I think, is Lincoln Group or a couple other people there as well.
	Lots of people want a piece of Trump, yeah.
	The Lincoln Group.
	I don't even know what they're spending.
	I think they spend money against DeSantis, too, for his illegal alien stuff.
	It's not that I'm cynical, but when I hear what seems to be a talking point being repeated by a number of people who are all politically aligned, that $27 million sounds like a talking point.
	I want to break it down and make sure I understand it.
	You can find it, yeah.
	No, no, I don't do the number.
	I'm just trying to understand what everyone thinks it means, especially since DeSantis is at now 2% and sinking.
	No, no, no.
	Across the board, if you look at his caucus numbers, you look at New Hampshire, the early states is what all that matters.
	All that matters is New Hampshire and Iowa and South Carolina, and after that, the rest will take care of itself.
	It will, and it's going to come down to South Carolina, and then if Trump makes it tight, and if DeSantis makes it tight, it'll make it to March 5th.
	So right now, I would say, let's come back in October.
	And let's see where we are.
	I think that a lot of people will...
	I'm telling you a lot...
	Like, right now, if I had to switch candidates and say, which one would I rather be on a winning team for?
	It's the Trump campaign, because he's the incumbent.
	Now, an incumbent should be performing a lot better than Trump right now.
	The internet is forever.
	I think a lot of people are going to come back to a lot of...
	Yeah, well, don't come back to me.
	Come back to me.
	Let's come back in October, and let's see...
	October, November, like, I think just after Halloween, and then you tell me whose camp you'd rather be in.
	But now I've got to ask...
	I want to come back to the other thing that I came back to before.
	Who's paying Trump's legal fees against all this?
	His campaign, Save America, is paying his legal fees.
	Some might hypothesize that the very argument suggests that a man running for president who's being persecuted by all aspects of the government because he's running for government should pay for his own legal fees.
	That seems like everyone is greenlighting the tactic.
	That seems like anyone who says that is greenlighting the tactic.
	The way you get around it is you create your own legal...
	I raised a lot of money for Sarah Payne on her legal defense fund.
	And in Alaska, they have these terrible laws up there which basically say the governor has to pay her own legal fees.
	So she had to quit the governorship.
	Otherwise, she wouldn't be able to raise the money she needed to defend herself in that legal category.
	Trump could raise so much money.
	I heard he was getting one together, but I haven't seen it yet.
	But instead, for example, here it is.
	DeSantis is spending and the PACs are spending all their money on knocking doors, some ads, building up the base, Trying to get people interested in the caucus, getting him to debates, doing these bus tours.
	And meanwhile, Trump is bragging about his score of 67 golf.
	He's not anywhere near.
	Now, maybe he doesn't need to, but what do you think he could do with that $40 million?
	He complains all the time about, man, we need to get out the vote program.
	We need to stop these shenanigans about ballot harvesting.
	It seems about $40 million would be a good start for that.
	I can hear people screaming at you through.
	Am I wrong?
	Well, first of all, I think you're wrong on quite a few things, but I also think...
	I'd love to be countered otherwise.
	Even the tactic of appealing to the golf thing is people...
	On that same day, there's Governor DeSantis, and he's pressing the flesh with people in Iowa, and Trump is bragging about his...
	His very, I think, dubious golf score, as most golf experts have told me.
	If I shot a 67 and won a seniors tournament, you damn well better bet your butt I'd be bragging about that.
	Why isn't he out just visiting people in Iowa and New Hampshire, shoring up his support?
	He's already lost 150 chairs there in Iowa.
	No one in any of the counties on the leadership supports him.
	In New Hampshire, he's probably going to lose there as well.
	He has a pretty good shot there, but we'll see.
	I just got interrupted by a child who didn't see the honor.
	I've got eight of them and one on the way there.
	Shut the front door!
	Are all of them out of your body?
	Oh, no, no.
	It's Brady Bunch.
	My current wife and I have three and one due in December.
	But I have three older kids and then two stepkids.
	You have three young ones.
	They were like six.
	Yeah, I got six.
	That's a good memory.
	That's right.
	Yeah, so.
	Jeez.
	Oh, man.
	Okay, by the way, I don't want anybody thinking.
	Disagree with you, Justin.
	I know the internet's...
	No, we're passionate.
	I think the one thing is...
	Republicans like a good primary debate.
	They don't want it to go on forever.
	I think if this goes past March 5th, then we start losing a lot of voters because, look, just get your act together.
	But I think they want a good debate, and I think people who are calling for there to be an absolute crowning of some coronation of Trump are misled.
	And I think you really ought to look at the issues and say, if he can survive this, he will come out stronger.
	Let me bring up...
	I'm going to share the screen here.
	This is going to be something...
	I didn't do this the last time because I don't know why we didn't have rumble rants.
	Let me bring it here.
	There's some questions in here for you, but I'll just read a few of these.
	Love it.
	But he's backing whoever puts their hand on the Bible is the legitimate president, DeSantis.
	DeSantis told them they could fortify against him as much as they want, and he will fold.
	That's Ginger Ninja.
	If Ron is so strong on COVID, where is his grand jury acting on Pfizer?
	Yeah, I'd love to see the grand jury act a little more.
	I know Jay Bacitaria, I know Martin really well, and I'd love to see some action on that.
	Beefers says, well, Aviva, well, I assumed you learned something.
	Well, what?
	Isn't that just some kind of blind faith?
	Trump has never met a failure he can't blame on someone else.
	Where is his mea culpa on lockdowns?
	Well, the rebuttal to the lockdown argument is that it's a state decision and that he didn't have the control over that.
	I mean, Aviva, we were all there.
	I mean, we all saw him over the pulpit.
	It's not like he was saying...
	You know what?
	I hate these lockdowns, but Dr. Fauci says...
	He was right there!
	He would literally call the governor of Georgia and say, I hate that you're opening up.
	You're making me look bad in the press.
	He would literally send missives over the bow to DeSantis saying, why are you opening up?
	You shouldn't be opening up, right?
	We were all there.
	Don't gaslight us.
	Technically, it's like that one kid you have a sleepover with when you're young.
	You've got like 10 kids.
	Great time on a Friday night.
	You're like 10, 11, 12 years old.
	And then this is a John Mulaney joke.
	And then there's that one kid, and you go, hey, isn't this a great Friday night?
	And the kid goes, well, technically, it's a Saturday, so it's the morning.
	And you're like, get out of here.
	Right.
	I mean, come on.
	We all do.
	We were all there.
	No, no.
	Well, first of all, I'll say two things to that.
	But certainly as relates to the gaslighting, I know you don't mean it the way some people take it.
	People bring out the tweet of Trump saying Sweden's opening up.
	It's going to be bad news.
	And then they don't mention that that was March or April 2020.
	Yeah, but I've got the tweets of him saying it's not up to the governors.
	It's up to me.
	He literally thought it was up to him.
	But it wasn't.
	So that he may have said bombastic things.
	And again, I acknowledge.
	DeSantis did lock down the state of Florida for a few weeks, and then he opened back and he spent the last three years trying to make amends for him, make sure it doesn't happen again.
	But I like what DeSantis did here, and I do think Trump has to answer for some of the broader policies over which he had control.
	But to blame him for state lockdowns, I mean, I think that's not a fair argument.
	Okay, so it's quite a blame for the PPP.
	Can I blame him for printing as much money as the heaven will bear out?
	Can I blame him for Ray and Bolton and Mewton and Barr and Rosen and Scaramucci?
	So long as we can agree on the first one, I think we've made headway.
	We both agree that Trump is at fault.
	We just differ on how much fault he has.
	Well, I think he made mistakes.
	And I think that he has to account for certain things.
	Then the question is going to be, even if he doesn't, what then?
	That's a separate question.
	Okay, hold on a second.
	During commercial breaks, Ron and Crispy were clearly working together.
	Crispy is Ron's attack dog, Ginger Ninja.
	Justin, this is actually a theory that Patrick Bet-David has floated and it makes a lot of sense.
	Christie is saying the shit that he knows that...
	Christie is saying the stuff that DeSantis wants to say but DeSantis can't say so he's using Christie as an attack dog.
	Christie comes up to him at the debate and people take a snapshot and say, there!
	You see?
	Collusion!
	They take a snapshot of the Bushes who are at the inauguration of DeSantis and say, there!
	You see?
	He's all in bed with Soros and everything else there.
	Meanwhile, you know, they just ignore every little picture, every little praise that Trump has of whether it's the guy from WEF or all these, or the Trumps, for example, right?
	I mean, look, you can't make basically conspiracy theories out of pictures, although we do it all day long.
	Maybe I've done it too.
	I don't know.
	I'm going to read B for his comment up here.
	Ginger Ninja, don't be offended.
	I'll snap these and read them later.
	LOL, there's that limp-handed defense of Trump again.
	You better be careful because that limp-handed thing got Trump in trouble.
	Oh, wait, it's just a state decision.
	Why didn't he fire Fauci and recommend against lockdowns?
	First of all, it's not a limp-handed defense.
	It's a state decision.
	Period.
	Why didn't he fire Fauci?
	Why didn't he fire Fauci?
	I think a lot of us are rewriting the fights that he had with Fauci, the public fights that he had with Fauci.
	Why didn't he fire Fauci?
	Why didn't he remove him from the COVID-19 task force?
	Okay, fine.
	And appoint whom?
	Appoint who else?
	Appoint Dr. Atlas.
	I'll give you the scenario, because I was with Dr. Atlas, okay?
	And this actually goes towards Pence, but also the buck stops Trump.
	He lost the election.
	Scott Atlas, his contract was up as a consultant into the COVID-19 task force.
	So he's literally on a plane home, Scott.
	And I'm looking on the TV, and out come Fauci and Birx, who haven't been seen at the White House for months.
	Pence is right next to him.
	And I texted Scott.
	I said, Scott, dude, are you there at this thing?
	He said, no, I'm on a plane home to Stanford.
	I said, holy crap.
	They just brought out Fauci and Birx again.
	So the minute that Scott Atlas leaves, the White House trods Fauci and Birx out again.
	I mean, you want to know why Ohio was shut down with a Republican governor?
	It was because Pence and Trump allowed Birx to make her rainbow tour around the country and convince a lot of Republican governors that they were going to die unless they locked down.
	And so that came directly from their actions there.
	I'll hypothesize this, Justin, to answer the question of why he didn't fire Fauci.
	He would have been impeached without a question.
	So he's too afraid to swamp or what?
	I'm sorry, that was a little low.
	Impeached without a doubt, accused of crimes against humanity.
	We've seen how it plays out now.
	So this is a question of tactics versus strategy.
	Do you fire Fauci and then get impeached?
	Well, how did it work out by not firing Fauci?
	Well, but hindsight's 2020, and it's very easy for those who didn't make the decision.
	Not for those of us who were talking about this in 2020 of March.
	I don't think anybody was talking about the prospect of the impeachment.
	No, we're talking about changing all the policies that Trump and Fauci put in place.
	Hold on, stick with one thing.
	Why not to fire Fauci?
	Impeachment would have been the obvious answer.
	Some might say strategically, better to fight with him publicly, take the heat publicly, while changing the narrative a little bit, because everybody seems to be downplaying or outright forgetting all of the fights that he had with Fauci, all the things that he was talking about, alternative medicines that people weren't.
	And it's not to defend him for everything, because I don't think he deserves criticism.
	That being said, we cannot rewrite history either to say he didn't talk about ivermectin.
	He didn't talk about hydroxychloroquine.
	He didn't talk about how, you know, mistakes Fauci was making.
	He was fighting publicly with them.
	He chose a strategy.
	It's very easy for those who don't do to say what went wrong with those that did do.
	And that's it.
	And then you vote with your hands at the end of the day.
	So I can understand the gripes and the grievances.
	The only question is that's very easy to say, well, I would have fired Fauci and hired Atlas.
	Well, that's great.
	You're impeaching crimes against humanity.
	Yeah, look, this is a difficult thing.
	And I hate to say it because I loved some of the stuff that Trump, he was the right bull in the China shop that we needed.
	But now this bull is a little bit out of control and I think it's time to put him back in the pen or other people are going to do it for him.
	I don't think he's the guy we can actually...
	I mean, you look at, for example, how he lost seats, lost governorships, lost houses in 2018, lost again in 2020, lost again in 2022.
	And it's like, what do we do here?
	I mean, you mentioned the top of the hour, the vaccines, right?
	And how they're going to pin it.
	Well, all the evidence of the vaccine entries that are coming out now were because of the corners they cut to get it to market.
	The corners that they cut that led to infected vials, the corners they cut that led to shortened time of expansion.
	And Trump to this day, just the other day, is bragging about, I kicked the FDA's butt to get this warp speed warp speed, right?
	They may come back to haunt him.
	And again, he still to this day says he's the father of the vaccine.
	He's very proud of it.
	I can't believe that most of MAGA does not believe that and yet refuses to hold him accountable for that.
	He's the father of the vaccine.
	It seems like something should be done.
	Well, I definitely think...
	I can't believe that he actually believes that the vaccine...
	Well, what he...
	He can't be seen as making a mistake.
	And that is a really poor leadership quality.
	It is indeed not a strength.
	I want to read.
	I'm going to read the other.
	That's better paper.
	Not a strength.
	Beeper is having impeachment.
	It's impressive how much Viva bends over backwards to create a positive narrative for all of Trump's failures.
	I don't mind the criticism.
	I just think it's amazing how you're ignoring the actual legal realities and practical realities.
	And it's good, Beepers.
	You would have done things differently.
	And, you know, COVID would have been over by now.
	I mean, it's amazing.
	Okay.
	Justin.
	Your stuff.
	Do we want to do...
	Do you want to come and take some shit over at Locals for five minutes?
	I was going to go.
	What was that?
	We're locally.
	I got to go get my kid at school here in a little bit.
	Go, go, go.
	So what we'll do is we'll end this.
	Have me back any time.
	I love this discussion and you've done an ample job defending.
	Bring me some good food for thought too.
	Well, I know what I have to look into because the caucus rules, not the caucus rules, sorry.
	The primary rules I'm vaguely familiar with.
	Definitely not an expert.
	The 27 million, it's a talking point.
	I know it is.
	I just have to find a way to debug it.
	Rob Pyers on Twitter.
	He's like the FEC guru guy.
	Rob.
	What was the other thing that I said I had to look into?
	Oh, it doesn't matter.
	I'll go back and rewatch this.
	But you didn't convince me.
	But I do now understand what you think.
	And I think your support for DeSantis is justified.
	I just think at this point in time, the fact that DeSantis is not supporting Trump, he doesn't understand that he's allowing the rabid creature to...
	To grow in strength.
	And they're going to come for him.
	And if they don't come for him, many people are going to suggest it's because he's playing ball and would not have been the bull in the China shop that Trump is.
	So that's my bottom line.
	Thanks, Viva.
	It was great to be with you.
	I love your audience.
	They're very engaging.
	And yeah, I'll catch you online.
	Feel free to have me back anytime.
	All right, man?
	Absolutely.
	But where can people find you?
	Oh, you can find me.
	Sure.
	Send me the links.
	On Twitter, Justin underscore Hart.
	You'll find all the links there in my bio.
	All right.
	Justin, thank you very much.
	All right.
	Thanks, guys.
	Don't read the chat if you're sensitive.
	I love engaging.
	We'll try that.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Awesome.
	Have a good one.
	Bye.
	All right, people.
	That was fun.
	That was fun.
	Let me get back here and I'll read some of the chats that were not directly related to Justin.
	Someone's going to have to remind me of one of the points that I said I need to look into because I think something sounds wrong about that, but I'll get into that in a bit.
	Okay.
	I know, Ginger Ninja, I skipped over.
	Beefers, I've gotten to all of yours.
	Ginger Ninja, what I hear, don't question elections.
	Oh, I wanted to push.
	Oh, whatever.
	He'll read the chat and he'll say, yeah, I think Carrie Lake is not wrong for complaining about the elections.
	She's damn right.
	And Stacey Abrams would also be damn right if she were damn right, which she's not.
	And because she's damn wrong, saying it was stolen when you're a loser is far different than saying it was stolen when it was stolen.
	We saw the evidence in Arizona.
	Carrie's not complaining.
	She's stating a fact.
	Ah, DeSantis wants everyone to cave.
	Okay, sorry, that's Ginger Ninja.
	During the commercial breaks, we got that.
	Ginger Ninja.
	So just like the corrupt DOJ, he wants Trump to be financially drained and not be able to campaign.
	No, we donated to support Trump.
	That's what I wanted to look at.
	Thank you, Ginger Ninja.
	The terms of the donations to the Trump campaign, I have no doubt.
	I might be wrong.
	I hope I'm not.
	It's explicitly stated that this is going to potentially go for legal fees.
	I mean, it's inconceivable that they would be doing anything that wasn't.
	That wasn't compliant because for reasons we all know.
	All right.
	We got Kimmy Hunt.
	Kimmy Hunt.
	Not into an...
	All right.
	This is what I...
	I decided not to bring up when Justin was live with us.
	Not into an arrogant, paid dissent as consultant to Trump Bash while he lines his pockets for a few more weeks today.
	Click.
	All right.
	I don't think he's ill-intent.
	I think Justin is sincere.
	And I think he's sincere in his beliefs.
	I think he's strategically wrong in his tactics.
	Beefers, we got that.
	And touch the riot.
	We'll never make the mistake again.
	Hart is a swamp animal engaging in the usual dirty politics because he's stumping for DeSantis and he actually thinks Haley, a war pig, is a viable option.
	What?
	I'm over 60 and cut cable years ago.
	I'm not going to attack Justin for his beliefs.
	I think he's sincere.
	And I think he's sincere.
	Nobody should work for free.
	He's working for the campaign that he thinks is strategically, ideologically proper to work for.
	It's good.
	That's his decision.
	Southie31, Trump also said we need to open up by Easter 2020, but like you rhinos, do you, but like, hold on, Southie, but like you rhinos, you go along with the Dems and start pushing lockdowns just like you blocked Trump with Ryan and the rest of his first two years.
	Shell Wall says Viva mentioned the contract that Pfizer did not uphold.
	Too late.
	All right.
	What we're going to do now, because we have to, we're going to do the Locals exclusive afterwards, even though I think there's kids who are unattended in the other room.
	Rumble.
	Thank you very much.
	I know a number of you did not want to watch that, or at least 12 people, maybe 20, on Twitter said not interested.
	First of all, if only from entertainment value, listen to people that you don't agree with.
	I don't...
	Hold the same sentiments against Justin and Jenna that I do against other people who I will not name, but who I think are not of good faith.
	The question is, you know, even engaging...
	I'll engage in discussion with people who I think are of good faith, and Justin and Jenna I think are.
	Even if I think Jenna might have some blind spots in terms of...
	Like I say, like some of the tweets rubbing people the wrong way, but, you know, it's politics and it's, you know...
	You're not drafting tweets to stroke egos or to be sensitive.
	It's Twitter and it's an ugly place.
	The people of bad faith I might have a discussion with as well, but I would have a different type of discussion.
	Everybody, with that said, let me give you the link to locals.
	If you're so inclined to come over, come on over to locals.
	Booyah.
	Oh, hold on one second here.
	I see a chat that I want to read.
	Hold on.
	Screen up.
	I rarely get to be here live, but I enjoyed it.
	Agreed with him for the most part.
	That's Art Vandeley, 42. Vandeley Industries!
	And then we've got DeYoung.
	TDS goes both ways.
	For some, he's the devil.
	For others, he is the second coming of Christ.
	I think that's an oversimplification.
	Right now, you have to deal with the candidates that you have.
	And the candidates that you have are Trump, who's got massive support for his base.
	GOP.
	And then you got those other people.
	And the other side is Biden.
	So you might want someone else in there.
	Oh, you got RFK as well.
	You might want someone else in there, but you got who you got.
	And among who you got, who is the best one?
	Will Trump have learned from his mistakes to take down the deep state if he ever gets reelected?
	If he hasn't, and this is the degree to which they're going to prevent him from getting reelected, we got like two sort of mutually incompatible Stories being told at the same time.
	So, that's it.
	Let's go over to Locals, and then we're going to have a little exclusive after-party.
	Locals, after-party.
	I know that Barnes is probably going to watch this and have a field day with some of it.
	Alright, Rumble, if you're not coming over to Locals, thank you for being here.
	VivaBarnesLaw.locals.com For those of you who are coming over, I think there are...
	I think I got to a lot of the questions in Rumble anyhow, but we'll have a little afternoon discussion anyhow.
	And that's it.
	And after that, maybe I'll go fly fishing again.
	I've got to finish Tucker's book.
	Chadwick.
	Now I forget his last name.
	Chadwick the author.
	Chadwick, it starts with an M. Chadwick Moore.
	Tucker's autobiography or biography.
	It's good.
	I was listening to it while fly fishing and it was very apropos.
	So I'm going to end this on Rumble right now.
	We'll be live tomorrow again, obviously, because what else is there to do in the world?
	Then keep up to date with the descent into madness.
	VivaBornsLaw.locals.com if you want to support us.
	Thank you all for being here.
	Snip, clip, share away.
	I suspect I'll be seeing a number of these clips either by the pro-DeSantis crowd or the anti-DeSantis crowd or the pro-Trump crowd.
	But thank you all for being here.
	I will see you all in Locals in about five seconds.
	Four, three, two, one.
	Booyah.
	Locals.
	No evidence that Trump has learned.
	A couple weeks ago, he was with Graham again.
	So concerning.
	That's Healthport.
	That came from QuietTexan.

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