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May 5, 2023 - Viva & Barnes

03:11:45

Discussion with Toronto Teacher Unlearn16 - From Censorship to Transgenderism - Viva Frei Live

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	After meeting the other leaders of the world, why are there millions and millions of people around the globe who will give their shirt to come and share our so-called miseries?
	You know why?
	Because Canada is the land of freedom Oh my goodness This video right here is going to instantly get this demonetized.
	I forgot.
	Canada is the land of opportunity.
	But the bottom line is, if anyone who doesn't have a legitimate medical reason for not getting fully vaccinated chooses to not get vaccinated, there will be consequences.
	Canada is a land of generosity.
	The police grabbed me.
	They pulled me down.
	They kneed me in the back.
	They kneed me to the side.
	They kicked me.
	This is Chris Deering, a war veteran who I interviewed during the Ottawa protest who was physically assaulted by the police officers.
	I'm gonna...
	I'll send everybody this video.
	I posted it to YouTube, Twitter, and everybody.
	Everywhere.
	And YouTube...
	There's the clip in there of the cops beating the ever-loving urine out of one of the protesters.
	And that clip always gets demonetized on YouTube.
	And I don't care about the monetization.
	It's just an interesting thing that when they demonetize something, they suppress its visibility, they suppress its presence on the internet.
	That one clip, you know the one when the cops are like meeing, it looks like they're meeing a sack of potatoes repeatedly on the ground.
	That clip in...
	Standalone format or incorporated into any video gets demonetized.
	Good afternoon.
	A Saturday afternoon, people.
	And we don't ordinarily do Saturday afternoons, but today we're going to have a discussion with someone who has a real daytime job.
	I say this with respect to all of the YouTubers out there who stream during the day, and that is the real job.
	It's a wonderful job.
	You get to listen to podcasts while walking and then talk about it in the afternoon.
	You may know her because we recently got it.
	It wasn't a Twitter war.
	It wasn't a Twitter fight.
	It was not even a spat.
	It was a back and forth over one Dean Blundell.
	And I'm warning everybody now, I'm not talking about Dean Blundell for more than we have to just to get our story going.
	Her name is Jo, unlearn 16. And I had actually seen her material.
	It's such a weird thing.
	I had seen her material, not much of it, but she makes videos out of her car talking about being a teacher.
	I saw one video, which I thought was rather funny, her talking about, you know, when people tell teachers, just do this on your weekend, you know, do a little extra work, and it's, you know, it's part of your job, and like, you know, a teacher's job ends up being 24-7.
	Pay for the extra pencils and stuff out of your own pocket, you know, it's part of the job.
	I kind of liked the interior of her car a lot more than the interior of mine.
	And then I see her reply to a tweet that I...
	Text that I included, Dean Blundellin.
	And it was about a podcast he did with Michael Geist about the passing of Bill C-11.
	And Dean, being Dean, came in with a reply that was not nuanced.
	And then Joe came to the defense.
	Okay, that's it.
	That's enough of an intro.
	But you might know who she is.
	And some of you, I'm going to get ahead of the curve.
	Some of you might think you don't like her.
	Some of you might think she's mean, sassy on Twitter.
	And I had the same reaction.
	And I said to myself, however, if I judge someone else as a human based on their Twitter persona, well, my goodness, I have to be ready to accept the fact that a lot of people out in the world think that I'm the biggest asshole on the planet.
	I know that there are.
	But I have to judge in the manner that I would like to be judged.
	And I talked with Joe for a few minutes before we got started.
	I know this is going to be fun.
	I'm gonna let her explain who she is when I bring her on.
	Okay, Joe, you ready?
	Three, two, one.
	We're live.
	Fantastic.
	How you doing?
	Very good and yourself.
	I love that introduction.
	First of all, first of all, before we get too deep, I don't know how much I was defending him and his podcast and everything like that.
	Everybody's like, do you have any idea?
	I said, no, I don't.
	Listen, what I was talking about was...
	Well, sort of my interpretation of a very small tidbit of back and forth, whereas I know this isn't going to be the subject, whereas you're very sort of anti-Trudeau and anti sort of anything authoritarian or limiting our civil rights.
	And I said something to the effect of there is nuance to these issues.
	And then a lot of your people yelled at me for a while.
	And, you know, I've commented on a lot of your stuff because I feel like.
	Well, you're an intelligent guy, obviously.
	And even though we sit on opposite sides of the table, I always felt like we'd have a good discussion, which is why I, you know, poked you every now and then.
	I'm surprised I had never seen it, but I think the only mistake is, this is the funny thing about Twitter as well.
	You come to somebody's defense who you may not know thoroughly well, and then they...
	Yes.
	And I don't want to sit here in bad mode, Dean.
	Like, you know, people talk about big ideas and small people talk about other people.
	I know a lot of his history.
	You know, his homophobic remarks a decade ago, I can give that a pass.
	At some point, you have to forgive and forget.
	It was the doxing of the donors to the convoy that was the recent one that I said, that's when you cross a line that I'll be soon...
	I'll be hard-pressed to forgive and forget.
	But he...
	Any kind.
	Shouldn't be.
	I mean, and I just think it should face legal ramifications.
	You know, I've been doing this long enough to understand that people might find out where I live.
	People might find out different things about me.
	And the idea where people who want to cause me harm and it becomes, you know...
	Transferable leverage.
	Well, that's kind of terrifying, to be honest with you.
	So I would never in a million years accept that behavior.
	But again, I can agree with a sentence somebody says without agreeing to their whole personality and their whole...
	I've never heard of homophobic...
	I don't know much about them at all.
	I sure as heck don't know what you're talking about.
	But I also can't...
	It would be funny if every time we agreed or disagreed with somebody...
	On Twitter, we had to go back and look at their history to find out if they're a decent...
	You know what?
	Nobody would ever talk on this app.
	It would be kind of...
	First of all, do you go by Joe or Joanne?
	Joanne.
	Joe is fine.
	Okay, I'll do Joe because that'll be easier.
	But you make the joke.
	But that is literally, to some extent, the litmus test.
	Like, you accidentally like a tweet of...
	I covered a story this week of a...
	Well, I mean, it was the substance of the tweets that he had liked.
	But, like, you like a tweet from somebody who...
	Dressed in blackface a decade ago and you didn't know it, or they had a controversy that you didn't know about and you get lumped into it.
	It is the risk.
	But it's an asinine risk.
	It's one of those risks.
	And when people are going to boil it down to that, I mean, it's ridiculous.
	Somebody, I use the phrase, call a spade a spade.
	Holy crap.
	Oh, someone accused you of racism today.
	Oh my God.
	And just went on and on and on.
	And I'm like, listen, I, first of all, the origins of that, of that.
	Story or that cliche or whatever you want to call it isn't racist.
	Second of all, I realize how it's been utilized.
	Okay, I'm going to give you that when you show me that evidence.
	Horrible.
	Not nice.
	But what are we supposed to do, though?
	Are we supposed to throw out all tropes of any kind if somebody with ill intent picks it up?
	Because I know a lot of Buddhists who have, I have a great story about this, who have swastikas on the side of their building.
	Should they take them down?
	Should schools be scraped off their building now?
	Because they were used horrifically?
	Well, I tell you, I said in advance we're going to agree on a lot more than we're going to disagree on.
	And that would be one of them.
	I mean, some people, Joe, are going to say, yeah.
	I mean, there was the politician who used the word.
	I don't even want to use it because someone's going to cut it and splice it.
	It rhymes with the N-word, but it's a word that is of Scottish origins that means to do something haphazardly.
	The end...
	I can't...
	I'll look it up.
	Continue.
	I can't...
	Do I even spell it?
	I mean, I'm such a...
	I don't know.
	I'm going to look it up.
	It sounds like the N-word, but it ends with erdly.
	And it is...
	And there was a politician who used it.
	And someone said, that's racist.
	He's like, that word means to do something in a half-assed manner.
	Nothing to do with race.
	The origin is Scottish, like 1300s.
	But we live in a world now where that's what happens.
	But we live in a world where people say, yeah, you can't...
	You can't use that symbol anymore.
	If it has the slightest bit of racist history to it, you're a racist if you use it.
	And a lot of people are going to say, yes, Joe, you should not use...
	You said a spade a spade is different than the racial term of colored spades.
	They're different terms.
	Totally different.
	And when I saw the person accused you of that, I had to go back and refresh my memory and say, like, calling a spade a spade has no racial connotation to it.
	It's Shakespearean, like, 1500s.
	Yes.
	But there are...
	Actually, Eramis.
	That's good.
	So, okay, we back it up all the way to the beginning.
	We met that way, at least on the internet.
	Yeah.
	30,000 foot overview as to who you are.
	I am going to ask you about your tattoos and hold on before we even get there.
	It's not a Playboy Bunny.
	It's a Psycho Bunny shirt that you have on.
	A Playboy Bunny?
	No, it's right there.
	It's Psycho Bunny.
	I think we know the guy who owns that company.
	I love this brand.
	It's great.
	It's expensive as all hell, but it's good stuff.
	Listen, sometimes you got to spend a little more money on a nice teacher.
	Now there's going to be tons of people in the comments.
	She's a teacher.
	How can she...
	Well, we're going to get into that.
	Okay, we'll get into that.
	Your car is beautiful as well.
	But let's start from the beginning, Joe.
	For those who don't know who you are, who are you?
	So my name's Joanna.
	I've been unlearned 16 on TikTok.
	It happened by accident.
	So COVID hit.
	I got a divorce.
	It was God awful.
	It was like the worst.
	You know, culmination of events.
	And I was trapped in this house by myself.
	And when I started feeling a monochrome of better, my friend's kid is like, Joe, just join TikTok.
	I said, what for?
	Don't be ridiculous.
	I'm an adult.
	Why would I, you know, and he's like, because my kids had shown me some stuff at school and mostly they showed me ridiculous things I didn't want any part of.
	And he's like, no, no, no, no.
	I think you're going to like it.
	And he took my phone and he downloaded it and he created my account.
	And then, as I was stuck at home, it was a lovely way out.
	It was creative.
	It was fun.
	I lips-sanked.
	Sanked?
	Sanked.
	I did all of those ridiculous things, right?
	And none of it meant too much, to be honest with you, but it gave me a bit of joy in that time.
	And then one time, I started...
	I don't know.
	It must have been about Doug Ford, I would expect.
	But I gave my opinion about...
	Something that was frustrating me in Ontario politics.
	And all of a sudden, my views went from, I was doing alright, it was fun, to a lot of views and a lot of people.
	And all of a sudden, I realized, oh my god, can I just do, is this what this can be for?
	This can be for just me, hopefully being a little bit funny, poking fun where it needs to be poked, and sort of raising concerns where I see them.
	I'm like...
	Well, that's just my wheelhouse.
	And as soon as I did that, so as soon as I was very authentic on the app, is when I started gaining a level of notoriety.
	And then about a year following that, I started my podcast, which has been fantastic.
	Again, I've gotten to speak to some amazing people, politicians, musicians.
	You know, people from all different walks of life.
	And it's kind of rolled out to be this very larger-than-life thing.
	In the summer, I'm going to be taping 15 episodes for a YouTube show that I'm doing with Vanessa Marcel.
	And it's just, it's been a cool progression.
	And as I started doing it authentically, a lot of people are like, oh, you're not that person.
	Or that's, you know.
	Outside of the wink, I don't wink that much in real life, but outside of that, it really is what I think about, what I care about, what happens in my day, and that's what I put on there.
	It is amazing.
	People wonder how you succeed on platforms, and to some degree, it's a matter of luck or timing, but sincerity, authenticity, and just speaking your mind and what you actually believe.
	And that's when you let yourself go freely as well.
	Backing up all the way, I'm going to just get this out of the way right now for everybody who's wondering.
	You're 47 years old.
	I'm going to be 48 on July 16th.
	I was born the same year as Jaws.
	48?
	You're as old as one of my siblings.
	Listen, we've started this out very friendly, sir.
	It blew my mind because at one point during one of your videos, I'm like, holy crap, we're about the same age and you're five years older than me.
	How long have you been a teacher for?
	20 years.
	This is my 20th year.
	Jeez Louise, 20 years in Ontario.
	You're born and raised in Ontario?
	Yep.
	Born and raised in Ontario, yeah.
	Grew up in, well, I moved around a little bit, but I did, born in Scarborough, lived in Markham for a bit, up north for a bit, and then really grew up in high school years in Whitby area, which is just east of Toronto.
	And single child, I know this now because you mentioned it beforehand.
	And you like that too much.
	I don't know where you're going to go with it.
	You like joy on your face.
	Well, being a single child and being the youngest of many explains a lot.
	Being the middle of many as well, you know, it's a lot.
	But you're a single child.
	I know your parents are divorced and I know now you mentioned it before we started.
	Your dad took his own life about 20 some odd years ago.
	Yeah, I was still in university at the time.
	When did your parents get divorced?
	Explain what your childhood was like.
	I was very young.
	So I don't really remember my mom and dad being in the same house.
	I tell this story on my podcast, and I remember thinking when they separated and they got divorced, I thought, at least until I was 14 years old, so for quite a run, because my mom would never speak badly about my father.
	My grandmother would, but not my mom.
	Is that I remember them having a fight over...
	My mom wanted to watch figure skating and my dad wanted to watch MASH.
	And I swear to you, for a very long time, I thought that was the big fissure in their relationship.
	That's amazing.
	He was pretty much always out of the house.
	But my mom stayed friends with him.
	He was always invited to our house at Christmas time.
	When I was little, he was there before I got up.
	And she would always come with me to his side of the family for anything we had to do.
	So it was very unique.
	Even when he got remarried, my mom was at his wedding.
	It was a different kind of relationship.
	It wasn't as broken.
	I don't remember feeling it being broken.
	I never felt sadness because of it, because I always had access, right?
	And nobody was ever...
	I've never heard my mom nor my dad say something badly about each other.
	Your mom was a nurse.
	Is she still alive?
	She is.
	She is.
	She actually...
	I built a basement apartment in my house.
	I took care of my mom and my grandmother until my mom got bladder cancer right about a year...
	Well, the October of COVID.
	So when everything got crazy in March, that October, we found out that she had bladder cancer.
	So needless to say, I was going through all of that amidst all of the other things everybody else was going through.
	But to fast forward you ahead, she had her bladder out.
	She had a hysterectomy.
	They found meds in her lungs.
	She was on immunotherapy up here, which is $5,000 a go every three weeks.
	And they've recently told us that she's in remission.
	I'm sorry, you said she had her bladder out?
	Bladder and uterus, like had a hysterectomy.
	I'm going to ask a stupid, totally ignorant question.
	You have your bladder out, how do you go pee?
	Yeah, so you have, I'm going to mess up the name, ilioconduit, something or other.
	Anyways, you have basically a stoma, which is almost like a spout that's actually created out of part of the inside of your stomach.
	And you attach a bag.
	Quite literally, it sort of sticks on.
	I should have brought one up.
	I could have showed you.
	It sticks on there and it sort of feeds the urine because it comes directly.
	Obviously, your kidneys, they run a tube from your two kidneys out to the side of your stomach and it fills the bag and she changes the bag.
	For the rest of her life?
	Forever.
	Wow.
	How old is she?
	She's 73. And she still lives?
	She lives with you?
	Yeah, so she was living with me for about five years prior because my grandma is now 97, so my grandma was getting old.
	And I thought, okay, well, we have the space.
	I'm going to build that out.
	It's amazing for them anyways.
	But then when my mom got sick, my grandma had to stay with my aunt because there was too many balls in the air for me.
	And to work.
	I'll tell you what, this is why I say, even if people disagree with some of your politics, which we'll see if anybody does.
	I don't know how they could.
	No, but that's what I say.
	But then I get called Nazi on YouTube, but on Twitter.
	No, but the idea of having your parents and grandparents live with you is, it's the nicest thing on earth, but it's the most humane thing.
	And you probably ended up saving their lives through COVID because the people who were in the homes were there.
	And the rates that COVID sort of ran through those homes.
	And I know what those homes, like my grandma.
	You know, she's a 97-year-old British woman.
	She's pretty stoic and pretty gruff.
	And sometimes she'll say, I'm just going to a home because she wants to control her whole world.
	But even if you're going to spend, like in Ontario, for example, you would have to spend easily $6,000 a month to have good care.
	Like, good care.
	To be in a place that was clean, to be in a place that had...
	You know, very competent medical care, to be in a place that was staffed appropriately, not understaffed.
	And it's not that my grandma wouldn't have had, like, she does have that money, which is lucky.
	But for me, the idea of either of them ever being, regardless of COVID, ever being like, I don't know if I could bear it.
	I tell this to my parents.
	My parents are of the philosophy that the old people should not become a burden for the young people.
	It's the return of what was done when we were babies and also to keep none of those homes.
	Even the best homes are like...
	Not good.
	And the bad ones are not good.
	And a burden.
	Okay, listen.
	The notion of a burden means you get nothing back and it's this weight that you have to carry.
	But I'm telling you right now, the time that I've, for my whole life, I've always been close to my grandma.
	For my whole life, the amount of stuff I get back, how dare you just discard that and say it's just a burden?
	Now...
	In Ontario, again, it's lovely because there are a lot of things because of OHIP and because of our healthcare plan where people can come into the home and help with a bunch of things, right?
	Now it can be a little bit awkward timing-wise, but for example, a nurse and an assistant will come in to see my grandma three times a week.
	Like somebody will come in to help bathe her.
	Somebody will come in because my grandma also likes that idea because then it's not her kid and she doesn't feel...
	And he saw such way about it, right?
	I saw my grandmother naked once.
	There's nothing wrong with it.
	I mean, it's nature, but you've seen The Shining, right?
	Like, you remember when Jack Nicholson was dancing with the woman in the tub?
	I mean, I love my grandmother.
	That was, boom.
	That's immediately what I thought.
	I'm not going to lie.
	So when my grandma gets dressed and undressed for bed when she's here, I mean, I help her.
	But I'll tell you what.
	If I could audio record how funny it is, because I'm just killing myself laughing because she'll lean on me.
	And then I'll help her put deodorant on.
	And we'll just...
	The fact that I can joke with her about that and she can joke back and she feels comfortable enough with me to talk about putting on her socks right or getting her shoe on right or she doesn't like those pants or pull them up higher.
	Like, I'm like, Grandma, I can't pull them up any higher.
	That's where your boobs start.
	Like, I can't.
	It doesn't.
	And she'll laugh.
	I mean, that's the crap that I will never forget.
	And if I didn't do what I did, I never would have had that.
	Right?
	She never would have seen me.
	She always would have seen her taking care of me.
	But I love the fact that she knows I will take care of it.
	Like, she knows that.
	She feels that.
	Yeah.
	And it is the problem.
	You can pay someone $6,000 a month and they will not treat a loved one the way they would otherwise treat a loved one.
	All right.
	So, Joanne, you've been a teacher for 20 years.
	I asked you this beforehand.
	Sorry?
	I'm tired.
	Yeah.
	Well, geez.
	I meet my daughters.
	I meet my children's teachers.
	I say it's something I couldn't do, but it might be something that I'd actually be very good at.
	But kids are pains in the asses.
	Teenagers are the biggest pains in the ass on earth.
	And I say that with love and respect because I was one.
	And I remember what I was like.
	And I would hate myself now if I had to deal with myself, a version of me now.
	But you've been doing this for 20 years.
	Has it always been?
	I know you told me beforehand.
	Private and not in the public system.
	Yes.
	And it's not unionized.
	So there go a lot of my questions.
	Has it always been that way?
	Yes.
	When I got hired, just so you know, when I got hired, I didn't choose private.
	It just sort of happened.
	It was a job that was a friend of a friend said this school is hiring.
	The public board wasn't hiring.
	It wasn't a conscious choice.
	And I probably, well, I know I wouldn't work at any other private school.
	It's a unique.
	Alternative in a lot of ways.
	But I remember going in there, sitting down with the owner of my school.
	We had a normal 30 minute, 20 minute conversation.
	What'd you do?
	Where'd you go to school?
	Normal.
	And then all of a sudden he said, what did you do your master's thesis in?
	And I said, because nobody warned me, which I gave my friend crap afterwards.
	I'm like, you couldn't have given me a heads up on who.
	And I said, well, I did.
	It was.
	Post or in the middle of Mike Harris in Ontario, so it was a fairly right-wing government that made a lot of significant cuts to education and healthcare.
	And I said, my thesis was that unions need to be revitalized, internationalized in order to establish international workers' rights rather than just domestic workers' rights in order to empower groups as a whole.
	Listen, I don't think I could have picked a more anti-union guy.
	To say that to.
	And then we fought.
	And I don't mean disagreed.
	I don't mean in a calm, rational way.
	I mean there was a vein in the side of my neck that bulged as we yelled at each other about unions and about my thesis and about whether you need them and about whether it makes workers lazy and about collective barn...
	And I left.
	I called my mom.
	I was almost in tears.
	I'm like, I did not get that job.
	She's like, what are you talking about?
	I said, we fought.
	She goes, you did what?
	I'm like, I don't know.
	I don't know what happened.
	Then a week later, he called me in there.
	I've worked there for 20 years and we haven't stopped fighting.
	But that's why I love that school.
	Because he can sit there with...
	A good argument.
	I mean, I would love it if we don't yell.
	With a good argument, I can sit there with a good argument.
	We can do it in an academic arena.
	Students can have their own opinions.
	We can do it in a healthy, powerful way.
	And we might not ever agree.
	But I promise you, we both walk away better.
	You know, this might be the perfect time.
	Everybody in the chat, we're going to go over to Rumble.
	Exclusively.
	Not that we're going to talk about anything that would get us in trouble on YouTube.
	You ever say, let's get ready to rumble?
	Always.
	We say, let's get ready to rumble.
	Rumble on.
	There's a number of them, but let's get ready to rumble is the go-to.
	So everybody here, 644.
	Move on over to rumble.
	Some of you may not like it.
	Live with it.
	Deal with it.
	I'm going to end it on YouTube, and then we might have a little Locals.
	Do you know what Locals is, Joe?
	We're on another platform, which is sort of...
	There's YouTube.
	Rumble, and then we have our own separate community like Facebook on a place called Book.
	I'll talk about that afterwards.
	You might want to look into that.
	All right, peeps, move on over.
	Let's go.
	Moving on over to the Rumble side, ending on YouTube now.
	Change is nothing on our end, Joe.
	I'm sort of curious now.
	I know what I think about unions in general.
	I think they might have outlived their utility, and they might now be more crutches than actual value added to workers.
	Especially since the unions seem to work for the unions, and the union has become the micro-government within, let's just say, the teachers' society, much in the same way the government has become the union of the people, and the union exists to prop itself up, to collect its dues.
	The more work it makes for itself, the better it is.
	Once upon a time, workers needed rights, and now I have the impression it impedes good teachers, props up bad teachers, makes the bad teachers unfireable.
	And, you know, leads to other problems that we saw during COVID.
	So, what is your take on internationalizing the unions?
	Well, I mean, don't ask me to recount a thesis.
	20 years ago.
	25. 20-some years ago.
	I mean, internationalization was simply talking about, I think what I was getting at is the idea that, because it wasn't just about teachers' unions, but it started there because that's where my passion lied.
	But it was about the fact that...
	We live in a globalized world.
	We keep talking about domestic and national policies, but we live in a globalized world.
	We live in a globalized world that when I was writing that thesis, we were just sort of entering into the significance of NAFTA.
	And we were sort of starting to see workers and jobs go all these different places and why they were going those different places and how...
	Companies now could pick up and go to wherever the cheapest labor was, where they didn't have to pay anything, where they could ignore environmental regulations, you know, and the list goes on.
	And that happened because there was no internationalization of labor.
	So the idea that we sit in this idea of a formal nation state with the delusion that we control.
	Our economy, that we control our politicization, that we control our military agreements sovereignly is, well, frankly, ridiculous.
	And the more that politicians prop up that narrative, the more it gives the illusion that they control it, which they never do.
	So if they don't control it the way they say they do, then my point was, it's about time that the people that did the job for many different countries started controlling it.
	From across borders.
	Because they were being abused across borders as they saw fit.
	Now with the teachers unions, you gotta know, my mom was a nurse for 45 years, however long.
	50 years.
	And she was the president of ONA, which is a nurses union at St. Mike's Hospital, for the end, sort of 20 years of her career.
	15 years maybe?
	So I got to see, on her side, how she...
	You know, I saw her be an amazing nurse, by the way.
	Everybody says that you, they'll ask, like, how do you get confidence?
	And I always say my mom, but they think it's because my mom always told me I was great, which she did, unless I sang.
	Then she said, pssh.
	I think I got it because I watched her nurse.
	When I was young, I was allowed to be at the hospital.
	I was allowed to be on the floor.
	My first steps were to her head nurse.
	And I got to see this woman.
	Who was incredibly caring and empathetic and would just be a kick-ass nurse.
	She knew what she was doing.
	She knew who to go to when she didn't know.
	She was confident.
	She was caring.
	She was in charge.
	I watched that and I didn't want to be a nurse because heaven help me, it's a hard job.
	But I think when people think you teach your kids by saying things to them, you don't.
	You teach your kids by doing things.
	And I was...
	Blessed to see what she did great.
	And I think that kind of changed everything.
	And when she moved in the union, everything changed, right?
	Like what she did, but it was still passion for the job.
	It was still an incredible work ethic.
	She got to understand inside and out what the sort of the constitution of the union was as it pertained to that hospital.
	Even though we can't talk about it on here, she may have talked a little bit about union stuff, because you're not supposed to talk about union stuff outside of the union.
	But she would go through it.
	She would go through arguments, and she would go through the law, and what it was to stand up, and why you needed to stand up.
	And she also was great at pointing out what the management should have done.
	She's like, I don't get it.
	She goes, everybody thinks that nurses and teachers can't be fired.
	Of course they can be.
	Management's never doing their job.
	Now, I am talking about my mom's perspective here in a nurse's environment.
	Because if management's not managing, meaning they're not keeping account, they're not documenting, they're not making sure they write people up when they're not doing their job, when they're being lazy, when they're not fulfilling their contract, they're the ones dropping the ball.
	There's a very clear policy and steps to be taken.
	And she says, flat out, if there was a horrible nurse, and she's like, and I was management.
	I fire her.
	Or him.
	Because at the end of the day, the worst that's going to happen is they're going to get money.
	Okay.
	But you're not going to be working here anymore.
	So, and that's kind of the way that it works, she said.
	But in reality, if the management on that side had done their job with Nurse A, right?
	And documented, given verbal warning, and gone through the steps and actually stayed on top of it.
	We wouldn't be having...
	These discussions go away, because I have no leg to stand on, because they followed the policy.
	Same with teachers, right?
	I think Mike Harris was brilliant.
	I don't know how much you know about teacher Ontario politics, but Mike Harris was a premier of ours for a long time, and he was sort of instrumental in trying to break teachers' unions.
	He did a really good job, because what he did is he took principals and vice principals out of the teachers' union.
	So they used to be on the same side.
	And what he did is he said, no, you're now management.
	And I'm like, damn, that horrible move for a teacher's union, but smart move on the side of an individual that wants to bust unions.
	Absolutely.
	Okay, that's very interesting.
	But now, this perspective of unions, though, is it 20 years old and the unions today are by no means what they were 20 years ago?
	I don't think, I mean, my mom worked up until she was like, right before COVID, right?
	So it's not, she hasn't been retired long.
	She worked close to pushing 70. I think when I've seen now, let's say the EA strike that just went on in Ontario, when I see what the government's trying to do, When it comes to class size, when it comes to diversity in the class, when it comes to not giving classes the tools and the extra help that they need.
	And then you see a teacher strike.
	Everybody's like, well, they just want more money.
	Well, look, EAs get paid horrifically.
	And that's purposeful.
	That is purposeful.
	And I'm going to talk about that in a second because the government's done the same thing with nurses up here.
	But the reality is, a lot of people talk about our job as though it's stagnant.
	And remember, I'm not in the public system.
	But if I originally signed a contract and I teach 20 kids in my class, and then next year it's 22, and then the following year it's 27, and then the following, right?
	When...
	When you tell me my work conditions, when I agree contractually to doing a job, it is under certain conditions.
	And that makes perfect sense for anybody.
	If you pile on more work, harder work, longer hours of work, and assume that I'm to get paid the same, that is a workplace issue that everybody would fight against.
	They just don't see teachers in the same light, because a lot of people just assume us to be glorified babysitters.
	And by the way, high school teachers, Are a second source to elementary.
	I could never be an elementary school teacher.
	I think they are gods on this earth.
	I believe that they should be paid more and they should have higher levels of education because they're establishing the foundations of learning that are going to last forever.
	Kids put their kids in my school, in high school, and I'm like, you should have done it in elementary.
	Because if you did it in elementary and they're on it, guess what?
	They don't need it in high school.
	They don't because the foundation is solid.
	You have problems in grade 9 and 10 math?
	It's because that same kid will come and tell me, well, when I was in grade 3 math, my teacher told me I was an idiot.
	And then they're done.
	They'll never try it again.
	And everybody's worried about fixing high school math.
	And I'm like, no, it's too late.
	Like, I don't mean it's too late as in you're doomed.
	I just mean we're not tackling it where we should.
	Right?
	And especially we treat elementary school teachers like babysitters, which is ridiculous.
	The number one thing I would change about any education in Ontario anywhere, ever, I would have certified professional elementary school math teachers.
	That's their only job.
	Not an English teacher teaching math, not a gym teacher, not a history teacher.
	I want specialists teaching foundational mathematics because it's difficult and because they need multiple ways to get at that spatial intelligence that the average idiot like me doesn't know.
	I know how to say two plus two is four, but when the kid doesn't get it, the importance of a teacher is how many ways do you have in your bank of ideas to teach them how to get it?
	Yeah, I mean, I guess the unions versus the quality of teachers is a broader discussion in terms of whether or not the unions create a situation where the skillful teachers don't progress, can't negotiate on their own success, and then end up leaving.
	And then what you get are people who like the power of the unions in terms of negotiations.
	They like the guaranteed work conditions.
	But you don't attract the best and the strongest.
	And that's a much different discussion.
	School as a whole.
	It's a big discussion.
	100%.
	I think one of the things, and I just want to throw this out here, one of the things that we talk about when we talk about teachers is who's a good teacher and how do we rate that?
	I think that's fascinating.
	And that's a whole seven-hour podcast all on its own.
	But this idea of a great teacher, because I've talked about it a lot.
	How are you going to judge that?
	We're not making widgets over here.
	How are you going to judge that?
	Because...
	Theoretically, the only way you really judge a good teacher is come talk to that kid 10, 15 years down the road and say, did that help?
	Was that progressive?
	Was that something you could grab onto and it helped you down the road, right?
	You're not telling this by their marks.
	You're sure as hell not telling it by their standardized test scores.
	It's a much more difficult, I hate to use this word because it was used so many times on Twitter, nuanced conversation.
	About how to get at these issues, right?
	And I know that can be another podcast altogether.
	So you've never had the experience with the unions as a teacher?
	Yeah, not as a teacher, no.
	And so you were able to negotiate your own contract.
	You're in a private system, so you get rewarded in theory based on your own ability to renegotiate and their desire to keep you and your desire to be there.
	You've been there for 20 years.
	Same institution.
	That's pretty amazing.
	I had a question.
	About all of that.
	Well, we'll get to how the curriculum...
	I don't know how the curriculum is established at a private school.
	We follow Ontario curriculum.
	There's no difference.
	Say that again.
	You follow?
	We have to follow Ontario curriculum.
	We have Ontario ministry government officials that come into our school every other year, and they check all of our books, and they check tests, and they go classroom to classroom.
	Okay, well, that's going to get us into the second...
	Probably the bigger discussion in a second.
	But before we get there...
	Jo, tell me about the tattoos.
	I mean, I don't want to pry and look like, because it's kind of serious.
	It's kind of serious.
	I know.
	It just kind of happened.
	I want everybody to know, especially the young people in the world, because I have a lot of students who come to me and say, I'm going to get a tattoo.
	I said, what?
	I go, listen, you're not old enough yet.
	And they'll be like, look at all your tattoos.
	I said, you want to know when I got my first one?
	33. I want people to be sure.
	So I had a side tattoo on my side at 33, and that was the only one I had until about maybe six years ago.
	And I really, I did a wall art in my classroom that were all of the quotes from movies and TVs that I loved.
	And I just designed it and I painted it on in my classroom.
	And the more I looked at that, I'm like, I want that tattoo.
	And so this bottom part of my arm here are all the movie quotes.
	And TV quotes that were on my room.
	And I met my tattoo artist.
	We became friends.
	I also blame Lou for that.
	Now she's just like, come in, let's do another one.
	It's like your first hit.
	So yeah, so that's how I did this.
	And then I was just going to leave it.
	That's it.
	That's how I was doing.
	Joe, well, he was my...
	I think we're still best buddies, although I haven't talked to him in a couple of years.
	Explain to me.
	So I got sleeves down to his ankles, down to his wrists.
	It becomes an addiction and it becomes like a never-ending quest for, not for perfection.
	Your body becomes the tapestry.
	I don't know what it is.
	I feel like I get more artistic every time.
	I'm like, well, the next one.
	So you got your first one at 33. Interesting.
	People can extrapolate how that can apply to other discussions right there.
	But let's, the curriculum.
	You're following Ontario curriculum.
	I know you've been following Florida stuff because of some of the comments on Twitter.
	How has the curriculum...
	I don't know what the Ontario curriculum is like.
	I have two brothers in Ontario.
	I think they're in private schools with their kids, but religious schools.
	Have you seen an evolution in terms of certain hot topics of the day that have become more prevalent in your curriculum?
	Sure.
	I'll give you my best example.
	So I've been a teacher for 20 years.
	I've always had a connection through friends and people I've known to the Indigenous community.
	So I've always taught a lot of Indigenous issues throughout.
	Having said that, it wasn't actually in the curriculum.
	I'm going to guess until about, in a significant way, eight years ago.
	So prior to that...
	To talk about residential schools in the curriculum, you'd open your textbook.
	I wish I still had this textbook.
	I'm sure I can find one.
	And the only acknowledgement to residential schools would say in sort of the, you know, the side of the textbook where it'd have like little blue writing or whatever as like, oh, and by the way, it would say residential schools created in order to help assimilate the indigenous population.
	The end.
	For the benefit of the population?
	For the greater good?
	For the kids?
	It was their only way to be integrated into Canadian society?
	And that's it, right?
	And there's still stuff that goes on.
	I mean, I talk about, let's say, the forced migration to Nunavut.
	That's still not in the curriculum in a significant way.
	I learned about that through a documentary at an Indigenous festival.
	And then I started doing...
	Um, research into it after the fact.
	So all of these, and then I'll just teach it, right?
	Like, I'll teach the curriculum, but I, the reality is the curriculum is the basis, right?
	And everything else is an exploration of anything else for my classrooms.
	So if a kid brings something in, if a parent brings something in, if, you know, my boss walks in and talks about something, cool, it's on the table.
	I think all knowledge is good knowledge.
	All discussions are good discussions.
	The curriculum, a lot of people are like, well, Joanna, and we'll get to DeSantis in a second, you shouldn't be talking about gender or gay issues, or you shouldn't be talking about this or that.
	I said, well, then you haven't read the Ontario curriculum.
	Because in world religions, I teach about Hinduism.
	Hindus.
	In the curriculum, it talks about gender being a delusion.
	It's a tenet of the faith and a belief system.
	I said, so you don't want me to talk about that?
	In grade 10 history, you talk about the legal and social movements of gay people within our society.
	I talk about it.
	I teach an American history course.
	We talk about it, obviously, in that context.
	I talk about it in society.
	I talk about it in politics.
	The idea of marginalized and oppressed communities are a part of every single social science, and to exclude it from curriculum is absolutely irrational and terrifying to me.
	People will say, well, you're just that Marxist person.
	I'm like, oh, for the love of...
	Do I teach about Marx?
	Yes.
	You want me just to skip over an incredibly important theorist?
	And what?
	Then not talk about the ramifications of his work, not talk about the way that Lenin and Stalin sort of took it and abused it and twisted it and turned it into a genocidal...
	Well, that makes no sense to me.
	So in every way, shape, and form, again, theoretically, economically, we cover the gambit, right?
	And that's the point.
	Isn't that the point of school, or shouldn't that be the point?
	Well, I guess the issue becomes, and this is the one where it's met the...
	The focal point of modern discussion is when, first of all, what's a marginalized group?
	And then when discussing, you know, history at the appropriate age, when that goes from discussing the history and, you know, like women's suffrage, gay rights, you know, talking about gay rights in Quebec when civil union was adopted into law is one thing.
	Going into grade three and teaching kids that, you know...
	Gender ideology or discussing things that are wildly inappropriate.
	The question is, when is it teaching something about history versus indoctrinating a kid?
	I mean, what's the line between the two?
	First of all, that word indoctrinating makes me very uncomfortable.
	But let me say this.
	I could use the G word.
	No, I won't.
	But I'll call it.
	Indoctrinating.
	I mean, all forms of education are indoctrination to some extent.
	Great.
	So let's put that on the table right there.
	Like, let's talk, let's really talk about education over the past 20 years.
	I'm not going to go any further back behind that because I've just been here for 20, okay?
	That's a bloody long time and it makes you something, it gives you 20 more years than a lot of other people out there.
	What I always say to my students every single year when I sit down, I wish I would have brought a textbook with me.
	I hand them the politics textbook.
	I hand them the world religions textbook.
	American history.
	The American history textbook that I teach from that is one of the most popular textbooks out there is, I want to say, 400 pages.
	Now, it's a bit of a bigger book.
	It's 400 pages from 1775 until today.
	Are you telling me that's not indoctrination?
	Are you telling me that the people that sat down and decided which stories to tell, whose stories to tell, which ideas to raise, which ideas to go in depth into, and by the way, which things, which is the most terrifying thing of all, which ideas do I get to exclude?
	I've never once had a problem with a teacher teaching subjectively, because you know what?
	Objective teach.
	I'm going to say it out loud.
	Your people are going to go mental.
	Objectivity barely exists anywhere.
	The delusion of objectivity is absolutely bullshit.
	And people that buy into it make me nervous.
	Because what worries me about a textbook isn't about biases.
	Because you know what a kid can do with me?
	I can say anything.
	You know what those guys will do?
	Let me check.
	In a heartbeat.
	That's how smart kids are today.
	I'm terrified.
	Not of the bias.
	I'm terrified of what's excluded.
	What's negated.
	What we don't even put on the table for that day.
	That's what I get very nervous about.
	Like, the Indigenous history.
	It's a good issue.
	Even the people on the right, and I'm not considering myself on the right for the sake of it, but I will.
	Sure.
	You know, we know the expression, history is written by the victors.
	And it's been to such a point now where I look back at some of the most fundamental historical events as I've been taught them growing up.
	And I say, my goodness, maybe they were not even as cut and dry as I learned in elementary school.
	They never are.
	They never are.
	That being said, you know, and I'll get in trouble with the flat earthers.
	The earth is round-ish.
	And, you know, boys are boys and girls are girls.
	There are certain things that we can accept are if someone tries to teach that, you know, something else different because there's no objectivity, we'll take issue with it.
	So someone coming in and teaching kids, a teacher coming in and saying, you know, there's 400 pages on the earth being round-ish, but let me teach you about the earth being flat-ish, we'll have an issue.
	Sure.
	Someone coming in and saying, you know, the greatest...
	The monster of all time was Hitler.
	And someone else comes in and says, well, you know, Stalin was pretty bad, too.
	There you can have a discussion.
	But that's the line.
	So the residential school thing is a good example.
	It's a good example that teaches us the lesson that people refuse to learn now, which is you can't trust the dirty government of today any more than you can trust it 100 years ago.
	But if someone comes in and says...
	The residential schooling system, you know, was only discovered 10 years ago, and that's why Justin Trudeau is going out of his way to make amends for a wrong that nobody ever understood.
	If you got that type of indoctrination, political indoctrination, people would rightly be up in arms.
	Where is the line between, yes...
	It's an incredible question, though, right?
	That's an incredible question.
	Can we go back to that beginning question?
	It's very hard to compare Florida and Ontario because I think, I believe, our curriculum is set up differently.
	County to county in Florida is different.
	The structure is different.
	But let's take a step back from the rules and the curriculum of each area and talk particularly about...
	The way a child progresses.
	The way their thought patterns progress.
	On a child psychology level.
	Is that my expertise?
	Absolutely not.
	But you know who I'd like to ask?
	Child psychologists.
	I would love to give expertise to people who thought, well, in grade one, let me give you an example.
	We try to change sex ed curriculum in Ontario.
	What were the changes that they tried to make?
	What was it?
	What were they trying to go to?
	They tried, I don't know all the specifics, because it was in for a heartbeat, and then Doug Ford erased it, and he went back to 1998.
	Can you imagine going back to 1998 sex ed?
	I'm trying to think.
	When I was in...
	Were we dumb?
	Like, you can't just go back.
	If you don't have something better, you don't revert.
	You don't take away anything.
	I don't know.
	You know what?
	There is something to be said about addition by subtraction.
	Go back to the basics.
	I don't need to learn about sexuality.
	Just teach me about biology.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Here's why we're going to disagree.
	Okay, wait.
	If we're talking about elementary school, which I do not teach, so I am by no means an expert.
	So let me just talk about what I do know, the tiny little sliver that I can speak to.
	In grade one, let's say, you name your body parts.
	Okay?
	That's it.
	You name your body parts.
	Do we think, possibly, because I've read a lot of child psychology on this, that it might serve as a detriment, possibly, to child psychological development when we skip here and we skip genitalia?
	We don't name them.
	Shh!
	Those are private.
	You don't talk about those.
	When we do something like that, in my opinion, We create the conditions of two things.
	Secrets and shame.
	And I don't want any part of it.
	I don't.
	So in grade one, all they wanted to do in grade one, all they wanted to do, name body parts.
	Understand.
	Teach kids about consent.
	Grade two.
	Teach kids that their bodies are their bodies.
	Nobody else's.
	My body's my body.
	No one but mine.
	You touch your own body.
	Does everyone remember that?
	Who has a problem with that kind of conversation?
	Well, I guess this is where it becomes a factual question, whether or not...
	Sure.
	Well, that's what I'm talking about.
	I'm talking about straight facts at that point.
	Well, no, no, that's what I mean.
	Like, is the policy, I don't know, in Florida, I don't have a kid in elementary school either.
	Is the policy that you teach a grade one that is called a penis, a vagina, a butthole?
	I have no idea.
	I don't think that's what it means, because as far as I understand, it makes the distinction, which is why I don't...
	I understand people's problem with it, because I think people are bona fide perverts at this point in time, some.
	That it makes, it understands the difference between sex and sexuality.
	This is a penis, this is a vagina, boys have penises, girls have vaginas.
	And then, where I say it gets into indoctrination, but not of the good kind, of the sort of, like, historical revisionism, well, boys can have vaginas and girls can have penises, and that's where we have an issue.
	Keep that stuff out of their curriculum.
	At least, look, if you want to have the discussion with a 15-year-old, And it should be between the parents and the kid and not with the teachers.
	Fine.
	But I can say, like, a grade one, if anyone ever said, no, you can't teach a grade one or that it's called a penis.
	Well, I don't think anybody's doing that.
	And I don't think that's perfect.
	Because here's the thing with kids.
	And I mean, again, I don't teach little ones, but I know little kids.
	They are honest.
	If a thought pops into their head, it comes out of their mouth.
	Right?
	And so...
	As a teacher, I love when people say, and I'll give you my experience teaching grade six because that's as low down as I've ever gone, okay?
	But the notion that they have questions and it comes out of their mouth very authentically, very like, you know, with no sort of judgment and no qualification, it pops out.
	So let's talk about grade one for a second.
	And you tell me, I cannot address, let's say, a kid.
	Who is trans?
	And I know, let's not get into the fight.
	We have to get into the fight because I think that question is...
	What if you had a little kid that walked in there and...
	Well, let me back you up for one second.
	Yeah, sure.
	What does trans even mean?
	That's a great question.
	The question presupposes a very, very hot lead.
	Because, Joy, if I may ask the question, I know that you were married to a woman, correct?
	Yeah.
	Okay, I feel guilty.
	You're a lesbian.
	I'm a what?
	Do you not think now, viewing the world today, that if you were a child growing up as a gay child, a lesbian, that someone would be indoctrinating you to think there's something wrong with you and that you should be a boy?
	I don't.
	And here's why.
	And a lot of people come at me, not come at me, that's not even like that.
	A lot of people ask me and will assume I'm trans.
	I'm like, no, honey, I just have short hair.
	I just wear baggy pants.
	But here's the thing, and this is the nuanced conversation that I think is so incredibly important.
	A big part of who we are is how we present.
	And whether you like it or not, your intended presentation and your intended identity gets mutated, gets changed by somebody's perception of who you are.
	I'll give you an example.
	Sometimes I'll walk in the girl's bathroom and I'll get a hand on my shoulder.
	And wait a minute.
	Couple times.
	Okay?
	Now, I am not trans.
	But instantaneously, I have to face that level of potential problem.
	Okay?
	Now, nothing bad's ever happened to me.
	But that's not...
	But I live in Toronto too, right?
	Like, I don't live in some places where maybe this aesthetic might get me into some more trouble.
	It is how we present and how the world sees us a lot of the times that gives us that identity and either accepts or rejects and puts us in harm's way.
	There are many people who are trans who you would never know.
	You would bet!
	Absolutely.
	They were called cross-dressers growing up when we were kids.
	And people had their fetishes.
	And I don't say they kept their fetishes to themselves as though it was a thing to keep secret.
	But it wasn't everybody's business as to what one person's sexuality was.
	But let me ask you this.
	We were talking about transgender.
	I wasn't talking about sexuality yet.
	Yeah, but I think transgender implies sexuality.
	But let me stop you there for a second.
	Prior to...
	We had a disagreement on Twitter as to whether or not...
	Was it with you or was it...
	No, it might have been with Rachel.
	Whether or not transgenderism is a social contagion and whether or not saying that is...
	Yeah, yeah.
	And the eradication part question.
	Well, that was eradicating transgenderism as an ideology.
	But backing it up, how many times in your life prior to, say, the last five years, had anyone asked you if you were trans versus just mistaking you for a boy for a second?
	But again, if we're talking about...
	Our gender as a social construction, and it allows us into clubs and excludes us out of clubs.
	It is the way in which the world sees us.
	I don't care to even make the differentiation.
	When I told you that my mom used to work at St. Mike's, she also worked at Wellesley Hospital, which is one of the first hospitals in Toronto that performed transsexual surgery.
	So back then, it wouldn't have been called transgender.
	There would have been a differentiation between people like...
	Cross-dressers, let's say, or transvestites.
	I don't know if that was the terminology.
	Please don't come at me if I'm using the wrong word.
	Calling a spade a spade.
	And people who actually wanted sex changes, okay?
	So Wellesley Hospital was one of the first hospitals who would do that.
	And predominantly, the only thing my mom worked in plastics in ENT.
	So she worked directly with these individuals.
	And she only ever saw male to female.
	Because female to male surgeries hadn't even come close to being, let's say, useful.
	There's still a discussion as to whether or not they've even come close to anything other than Frankensteinian.
	In my humble opinion, I'm not putting words in your mouth.
	But it's interesting because my mom would work with these women and they would go through these surgeries and it was kind of cool to hear her talk.
	About it in the past, because this would have been, let's say, in the 80s, early 90s, where being gay still wasn't all right.
	Like, legitimately, homophobia ran rampant.
	The word gay was in every movie I've ever seen growing up as a kid, let alone having a transsexual operation.
	And my mom used to sit with these women, and they would come back because you'd get checkups and things.
	And the surgery was okay, right?
	Okay.
	Not great.
	So they wouldn't be able to pass.
	Right?
	So now what would happen is that you would have these women who would have surgeries and all they thought they wanted and really wanted and identified as and that's who they were.
	I'm not saying this to be glib.
	You mean men who have had their weenies removed?
	Absolutely.
	Physical, like breast augmentation, like they've gone the whole gambit, right?
	Those women...
	Would come back, and I just remember my mom telling me these stories, and be so devastated.
	Not because they had the surgery, not because that wasn't their identity, not because they didn't want that to happen.
	But now the problem was this.
	It was all about passing.
	So they were not passing.
	And again, this is where we get back to what your gender is.
	People weren't believing them, right?
	They were looking at them and going, you're not a woman.
	And they weren't men anymore, either.
	Well, they are still men.
	They're just men that have removed their penises.
	But socially, where do you go?
	Where do you fit?
	I'm just telling you their experience was ostracization from both communities to the point where they felt so incredibly isolated.
	And then you started having a group of people, and again...
	By the way, and incidentally, what you're saying, I...
	I know as well from anecdotal stuff.
	All anecdotal I'm talking about.
	And they, as a result, now they're neither gay men or biological women stuck in the middle, and they're in a nightmare where they, you know, the self-harm that comes after these surgeries, which people don't like to talk about because they only measure three months out and not three years out, leads to certain things, which is the fundamental question as to whether or not...
	Transgenderism, some people don't like calling it an ideology.
	Others call it, and I'm not saying this to be mean either, a mental illness, gender dysphoria, for which the treatment has, you cannot treat a psychological condition with a physical remedy.
	And so this whole idea now, not just to treat the adults who might have this, but to indoctrinate the kids who may be confused.
	Because when you said like, you know...
	What did you say about people coming out to you thinking, you know, are you a man putting your head on his shoulder or asking you if you're trans?
	They're asking you this as a 47-year-old person.
	You're confident.
	You know who you are.
	You know what you've been.
	I don't feel scared, right?
	But to ask these questions of a 10-year-old, of a 13-year-old, of a teenager, of anyone under your brain still developing is a far different thing.
	They are confused and you're asking them questions that, as far as I'm concerned, should not be asked of anybody because it presupposes you're in the wrong body.
	You're broken as birth.
	So, I mean...
	What was my question in all of that?
	I'll let you finish your thought.
	Then I want to flip the conversation just a little bit.
	Go ahead.
	Absolutely.
	I mean, the idea of treating a mental condition with physical remedies is, you know, it's not...
	I don't think it's the way that you can treat it.
	But what was the question?
	It doesn't matter.
	So, okay, what were you going to say?
	And again, I'm not going to get into, and I say this all the time, when people ask me, what do you think should happen or whatever, I mean, I am very, very clear in the fact I'm not an endocrinologist.
	I'm not an expert in any way, shape, or form.
	I'm not a child psychologist.
	I'm not a psychologist.
	All of these things that make people experts in order to deal with the things people are going through in this world, I'm none of those.
	But here's what I will say.
	We have created, and it's very Hindu, we have created...
	A binary of gender.
	Let's just distinguish between gender and sex, just for a minute.
	I know some people are out there saying, it's the same thing, there's two genders.
	No, that I can say.
	Let's just separate them for a second, okay?
	So we have sex over here.
	I'm just going to put that on the shelf.
	We can fight about that later.
	Let's just talk about the notion of gender.
	The idea that, and we all have, I mean, whether you, whether it's...
	You know, been fully forced upon you or socially forced upon you or genuinely, you know, generally sort of seeps into your existence.
	Girls stand over here, you act a certain way.
	Men stand over here, you act a certain way.
	We have language that describes the same actions for both sexes differently.
	We have dress styles, we have hairstyles, we have...
	My god, my uncle and aunt talk about blue and pink jobs.
	I want to punch somebody.
	But we have delineations.
	Now, has it changed over the years?
	Of course it has.
	Of course it has.
	But that does not mean that in those baby stages, and this is where I think sometimes we lose the plot, letting a young person, boy or girl, I could give a crap, dress how they want.
	Speak how they want.
	Play with toys that they are drawn to.
	Join clubs that they are drawn to.
	Is that not the goal?
	I'm going to say this.
	Everybody's genetically predisposed to a lot of things.
	I just don't know.
	And I've seen no evidence as to a genetic marker that says boys like trucks.
	Well, I tell you, if and when you have kids, they're...
	There are rules.
	A lot of people say stereotypes are unfair.
	Stereotypes also, to some extent, are time-tested in true generalities, and then you have your exceptions.
	If you've had, I had two girls and a boy, boys are fundamentally different from girls, as a rule.
	Some boys.
	I was a counselor, and I had gay campers who we knew before they knew that they were going to be gay.
	That's what I'm saying.
	Some boys.
	But the idea, I guess it's the idea that...
	There are generalities to gender, but I just say as an underlying factor of this whole transgenderism movement is the antiquated and regressive stereotyping.
	Oh, if a boy likes playing with pink, well, they must have been born a boy in the body of a girl.
	Let's fix that by fixing the body.
	I think the first thing we have to attack, though...
	Is the way in which we treat them differently.
	And I've been a teacher for 20 years.
	I promise you it happens.
	I promise you that boys get a different kind of freedom than girls.
	That expectations are different.
	And sometimes you'll see it play out and it will be true.
	But just like you've just stipulated, sometimes you see kids break all of those stereotypes and all of those.
	And I can't, because we're not going to lock kids in a room somewhere without any sort of, you know.
	That's not okay?
	We can't do that?
	I hope the Peel region wanted people to do that as their kid came across COVID.
	Lock him up five years old.
	But I mean, we're not going to...
	This notion, this human nature notion of what kids like and what they don't like, I think is problematic.
	Now, do I think kids are born liking different things?
	And could it be...
	But what are we going to say?
	Because at three years old, let's say.
	There's no testosterone in the mix.
	Not a significant sum, right?
	We haven't hit puberty yet.
	How are we determining what they're interested in and taking the socialization?
	If we're going to say indoctrinization, can we start using the words indoctrinization and socialization interchangeably?
	Or do we just say socialization when we like it, indoctrinization?
	I'll tell you.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Well, no, but the socialization would be let them be.
	Indoctrination would be, I tell them how to be.
	It would be like, hey, I'm going to name my kid Apple, thinking of that celebrity.
	Oh, they're three years old.
	They like girls' clothes.
	Now I'm going to tell them.
	And I'm going to actively affirm.
	Letting a kid be a kid is socialization.
	Telling them what to be is indoctrination.
	Absolutely.
	But let's also assume, just for the sake of argument, and I don't think it's a big assumption, that there are a lot of parents telling their kids.
	What a boy is.
	Telling their kids how a girl acts.
	Telling their kids that they're straight.
	Telling their kids...
	So if you're going to attack indoctrinization, let's do it across the board because I promise you, there's far more on the other side of the fence than we are making out to be on the flip side.
	Immediate response to that.
	Parents have the, I always say, God-given right.
	I mean, maybe...
	I have a response to it.
	That's between the parents and their kids.
	Well then, hold on.
	Isn't a transgendered kid between their parents and their kid?
	DeSantis wants to take kids out of the house.
	First of all, hold on.
	As far as non-invasive surgeries or medications go, yeah.
	Ideologically, they have their discussion.
	If a parent wants to beat their kid, well, that's not between the kid and the parents.
	But isn't hormone therapy, by the way, which lots of different kids get for many different reasons, isn't medication and isn't medical treatment of any kind between parent and their kid?
	Because we can, heaven forbid, I don't want to talk about vaccines, but...
	You might have to.
	Okay, let's talk about this.
	Blood transfusions.
	There are religions, and again, I'm not coming after religions, I'm just using it as an example, that stipulate...
	No blood transfusions.
	Yeah, I think they lost for the minors.
	I don't think they won for the minors.
	Well, sure, but...
	I was a Jehovah's Witness.
	I wanted to pull it up.
	That still has to be a consistent fight, right?
	And you can go further than that.
	Blood transfusions is sort of imminent.
	There are parents who will refuse chemotherapy.
	There will be parents that will refuse radiation therapy.
	A lot of proven therapies that could help their children survive.
	And they say, no, I don't believe in it.
	I don't agree with it.
	And the result can be that, right?
	Now, again, here's the problem.
	We are picking and choosing.
	By the way, I don't love how much property parents have over their kids.
	That's what people are going to call you a communist.
	I think the state...
	I didn't talk about my state either.
	I talk about them, let's talk about them as people.
	Let's talk about them as individuals.
	Let's talk about them, for example, people love to talk about, as they should, any, I don't know if I get, I don't want to be too graphic.
	Oh, we're on Rumble now, right?
	Yeah, be graphic.
	Don't worry about it.
	Everybody's talking about pedophiles, right?
	So everybody's talking about, I don't want people getting at my kids.
	Well, we all know that nine times out of ten, the call's coming from inside the house.
	So if the call's coming from inside the house, and I don't just mean that as parents, I mean friends and family that have been let into the house that are able to make very, very close relationships with children and then take advantage of that horrifically.
	They all deserve to go to prison forever.
	In that case, How do we empower the kid?
	And I would say we go back to education that a lot of people are blocking.
	For example, in grade one, we start talking about consent for those kids.
	We start telling those kids every single day, all the time.
	Your body is your body.
	You scream at the top of your lungs.
	If, right?
	But a lot of people, and it's even in Ontario, so it's not just a Florida thing, will say, no, no, that's the parent's job.
	Well, now I'm worried.
	Now I'm worried because if I look at where the abuse is coming from, statistically, I need to figure out a way that that kid can be empowered.
	I'm not talking about the state stepping in.
	I'm not like in a sort of parental way.
	I am talking about, and I think everybody should want this, how do I empower and educate that kid?
	To be able to stand on their own, even if they're young.
	How do I do that?
	Because that right there is how we stop the litany of disgusting things that are happening to our kids.
	Yeah, but first of all, agreed.
	Totally different things regardless.
	And there's laws on the books to prevent child abuse.
	I'm just checking up the Jehovah's Witnesses.
	As far as it goes with minors, it's the best interest of the child in terms of what is likely to, you know...
	Likely necessary treatment for the child.
	So the idea that it's between a parent and a child when it comes to certain ideological things, and even then there are limits on the type of psychological abuse parents can inflict on their kids, even if it's not physical.
	But even when it comes to parents and kids talking about these hormone therapies, and yes, precocious periods get put on some sort of...
	You know, I say puberty blocker when they want to prevent a child from having a period of too young of an age.
	But the type of treatment that has become a contagion, if only because you can see it in terms of search results.
	And I presume, Joe, from your 20 years as a teacher, have you noticed a marked increase in students purporting to be transgender in the last five years versus the previous 15?
	Well, of course.
	But we have to admit this.
	When you make something, there's a big difference between, just like being gay.
	When I started teaching, I wasn't gay.
	Like, I didn't say I was gay.
	And so there were far fewer people out who were gay.
	You want to know why?
	I was terrified I was going to get fired.
	I was terrified of what the law stipulated, how I would be perceived, what discrimination would face me as a result.
	So when we make something...
	Unacceptable, socially condemnable, even to the point of facing intense violence as your identity rolls out.
	And I've been very lucky, right?
	And when I speak to a lot of these issues, I want to, I got to be careful because I grew up here.
	I didn't grow up in a town where being who I am, looking the way I look, could get me into harm's way.
	I didn't.
	And I didn't have to face that.
	So when I run my mouth consistently, it's with...
	A level of, well, freedom and a level, I still feel a level of safety.
	I have to make space and I have to listen to all of those men and women who don't, it doesn't even come close, right?
	Not just in our countries, but I mean all over the world, right?
	And I think that's a different discussion.
	So when you normalize something, of course you are going to see a change in the representation.
	There's no more gay people today.
	There's just more people that are willing to live how they are because now it's okay.
	It's an interesting thing.
	This is literally the one-screen, two films where some say as it gets normalized or as it becomes less taboo, people are more apt to come out and be open about it.
	Flip side.
	The more you cover mass shootings, the more mass shooters you have.
	It's a known fact.
	The more you cover suicides, the more suicides you have.
	Because people get inspired, people get encouraged, motivated, people get indoctrinated.
	The more you talk about cutting self-harm, the more that it propagates itself as a phenomenon among kids.
	And the same thing, there was one more.
	You know, goth, emo, these things, they spread like wildfire, and then they phase out because the fad is over.
	And the only problem with the transgenderism...
	Fad, contagion, or discovery, depending on your side of the aisle, is it's one that leaves irreparable scars, much like scarring.
	I remember growing up with kids, because it was the fad back then, cutting.
	I mean, it's still an issue now.
	That's interesting that you bring that up.
	I mean, I was just talking about this earlier today.
	I don't even remember.
	I was just talking about mental health, okay?
	So in Ontario, we're changing our curriculum, and he's including mental health once.
	You know, a week in gym.
	Don't start me on that embarrassing attempt at doing something.
	But people will say to me, okay, well, because now kids will talk very openly about anxiety.
	They'll talk very openly about depression.
	They'll talk openly about it because I guarantee you they're on TikTok getting indoctrinated to made believe that they have every mental illness under the sun.
	But I also, I mean...
	Again, with a lot of my students, when they are talking about it, they've gone through a lot of different stages.
	I don't want to be too personal about how they've shared it, but it's funny because I look back 20 years ago and somebody said, do you think there was that much mental health issues?
	And when I look back, you initially knee-jerk say no.
	And then I think, wait a minute.
	That kid who did drugs every single day and came to class, was that a mental health issue?
	The kid that snuck alcohol, we all knew kids like that in high school, who snuck alcohol into school to get through the day, was that a self-medicated mental health issue?
	The kids that were smoking pot in the smoking section, was that a mental health...
	The kids that were smoking.
	The kids that had such ADD...
	And nobody diagnosed it.
	They couldn't sit still.
	And they were just labeled a troublemaker and a pain in the ass and were bounced out.
	Was that a mental health issue?
	And the answer is pretty much yes.
	When I was learning how to teach or, you know, going to...
	Yes, by today's standards.
	Maybe not.
	Because this is the other thing.
	I'm sympathetic to a part of what you're saying because I might have been that kid.
	And now someone says, okay, Viva, you got OCD with generalized anxiety.
	Good.
	You put a name, you put a label, a mental illness label on a pattern of behaviors.
	And the question is, do we have a propensity today of making everything a mental illness to be treated with drugs for whatever reason?
	You're getting to the end of the thing.
	I think we are a society that is heavily dependent on drugs.
	Let's all admit that right now.
	And I'm not just the kind the doctor prescribes.
	You and I grew up at the same time where they gave out antibiotics with Halloween candy.
	There's a Mars bar, there's a bag of chips, there's some amoxicillin, right?
	I mean, we lived through that, but we're still that society.
	You have a headache, take an Advil.
	You are overweight, take this pill.
	You think you're a boy, take puberty blockers and surgery.
	But I think the rigmarole, I love how I can just throw that word in there.
	I still don't know what it means.
	I channel my grandma.
	But I think what an individual has to go through, and again, speaking on this, I find problematic.
	I would love to sit with experts in all of those fields, endocrinologists, child psychologists, and all of those fields in order to adequately talk about it because I don't think I'm doing it justice.
	I only can speak to the people I know who are trans.
	I can speak to the students that I have seen go through what they've gone through and now are on the other side of it.
	I can speak to the fact that, statistically, we are still looking at 1% of a regret rate.
	But let's get back to what we depend on.
	I think that is a wildly...
	Underestimated number, I know.
	We'll go back and forth on that.
	We won't know for another 10 years, but I guarantee we're going to know.
	But I talk about how we...
	Drugs and alcohol.
	Look at our society.
	Like the illicit kind, right?
	We couldn't shut down...
	During COVID and...
	I don't want to argue with you about COVID.
	We could not shut down, whether you agree with shutdown or not, okay?
	We could not shut down alcohol stores, beer stores, the liquor stores.
	Because you don't want people going into withdrawal.
	First of all, that was the rationale.
	It's insane.
	Well, I don't believe that was the explanation.
	I think it's just a filthy, corrupt government wants to make sure they collect their tax dollars.
	I don't think withdrawal...
	Oh, I think it would be horrible.
	I think it would have been horrible.
	I think that withdrawal and I think alcohol, I mean, you would have had people trying to get there in so many different ways.
	The amount of dependency we have in our society is something I would love to discuss and really get into, but nobody wants to because they'll say stupid crap like, well, I'm an adult.
	I get to make my own decision.
	You are.
	You are, but let's not take, if you're an adult that gets to make their own decision, that's cool.
	At what point does that happen?
	And if you're going to use that logic, you've got to use it across the board.
	And so I do understand when we talk about minors.
	I think in Ontario, and I could be wrong, our laws are a little bit different.
	So I think at 14, you'd have to look, if you can look this up at the same time, I have a feeling that at 14 years old in Ontario, It's going to make their own medical choices.
	Is that right?
	It sounds very, very familiar, right?
	I know it's better than I thought.
	I'll double check.
	I think it was 14 for the VAX, which would, let's see, Ontario.
	Which would make sense if it was across the board, right?
	Ontario, age of medical consent.
	18 years, there is no stipulated age of consent for treatment.
	Every person, including minor, is capable.
	At least this is what it says for medical decision-making.
	So it seems age is majority.
	Majority is 18. Okay.
	Age of consent on medical issues.
	There is no specific age that determines when a child has the right to decide about his or her own medical treatment.
	Okay, that's at least coming from one website.
	Does that mean any age kids can...
	I don't...
	Let's see here.
	Okay, let's see.
	Canadian mental health.
	If a person is under the age of 16, the substitute decision maker must consent or refuse to the treatment based on the person's best interest.
	We won't get an answer to that definitively, and I'm not sure exactly what it is, because I remember reading 14...
	Yeah.
	At 14, they didn't need their parents' consent for the COVID jab, which I thought was wildly...
	But I think that that's consistent across, which makes sense in Ontario, if it's consistent for all medical treatments.
	I think you don't need parental permission, and I don't want to fight about this either, for an abortion at 14 either.
	I don't know.
	I'll double-check that.
	But I'll tell you what.
	My issue with...
	I'll just say, before I forget.
	I don't know experts in endocrinology.
	I'd like to talk with the experts.
	I've now lived through an era where I don't think experts are trustworthy in any way.
	And this would be one.
	I'm not bringing this up for any other reason.
	I'll turn off notifications.
	Get this one on here.
	An expert who comes in and talks about gender-affirming hysterectomies.
	A hysterectomy itself is the removal of the uterus, the cervix, which is the opening of the uterus, and the fallopian tubes, which are attached to the sides of the uterus.
	Some gender-affirming hysterectomies will also include the removal of the ovaries.
	So, we're talking about, like, when we talk about...
	Say it again?
	Were you just informing me what a hysterectomy was?
	No, no, no.
	I just said...
	Like, I know.
	Well, see, the idea...
	It's only the issue.
	At what age?
	Any of this should be available to anybody, if ever.
	That's not true, because I think it is a slippery slope.
	I think if somebody sat down and had honest, heartfelt discussions about all of the cause and consequence, all of the effects, mental capacity, and all of those things, and had a legitimate conversation about that, let's say before a particular age, I don't know if it should be 18, but here's my problem.
	You know for a fact that people are using that as a stepping stone to start using words like eradicate trans ideology.
	He is not talking about, and I'm not going to spend any time talking about him or Mr. Matt Walsh.
	They can have a fine time on their own.
	They are not talking about just kids.
	They are using kids as a place to weaponize, get at fear centers in order to ban, in order to get at everybody.
	Let me stop you there.
	Some people are going to say that is either confession through projection or accusing your enemy of doing what you're doing.
	A lot of people are saying that the trans, not you, but the trans movement are deliberately targeting the kids and using the kids' purported best interest to further push this very slippery slope of...
	Can I ask a question, seriously?
	Absolutely, please.
	Let's say I have a kid.
	What on earth, as a parent...
	Would be my...
	What benefit would I reap?
	What...
	It's a very easy question to answer.
	Go ahead.
	Social media virtue signaling currency.
	No, but what would I get?
	Like, if I'm a parent, though, forget about social...
	Like, let's just take...
	Munchhausen.
	Social media Munchhausen by proxy.
	I have a kid.
	I have a kid.
	You're talking about a Munchhausen.
	I mean, well, then we're talking about this many people.
	Well, but we would be.
	We would be.
	Watch housing doesn't come up very often.
	No, but we would be, except for the fact that once the contagion takes off, it's no longer this.
	Now you have parents who are saying, oh, my kid's three years old and is transgender.
	Shower me with praise.
	And that's what's happening.
	It becomes liberation.
	It becomes like, it becomes virtue.
	It becomes a way of attaining social status with having done nothing but indoctrinate a three-year-old because you think that they are, you know, like Barbies and they're a boy.
	Anybody like that.
	The answer is yes, but the answer is yes, it doesn't matter.
	The answer is a hard yes, and it doesn't matter because my anecdotal stuff is irrelevant.
	What we're seeing...
	The reason why I'm asking that is because we tend to blow up...
	We see what people put on Twitter and what people will use in order to prove argument.
	We put up, let's say, extremes.
	And if we put up extremes...
	Did I lose you right now?
	No, no.
	You see me, right?
	No.
	No, now I lost you.
	Okay, hold on.
	Wait for it to refresh.
	Uh-oh.
	We have broken the internet, people.
	Hold on.
	Do I want to refresh?
	She's frozen.
	I'm going to give it 30 seconds before I panic.
	And chat, remain calm, even if you're hearing things that you don't like.
	This is what being an adult is about.
	Do I want to refresh?
	Let me...
	Oh, I hope...
	I'm going to refresh and just see what happens.
	It says you're...
	Okay, no, you're back, but now you froze again.
	Tabarnush.
	Oh, okay, she'll come back in a second.
	This is people.
	Anybody who thinks that I'm an asshole based on my Twitter profile, I would understand.
	But this is what a discussion is like.
	What happened?
	Okay, hold on one second.
	Let me reply.
	Hold on, people.
	I'm replying in real time.
	I think Joe can still see me.
	How do I reply?
	For goodness sake, I'm going to...
	Is it me?
	Because now my...
	No, my internet's working.
	Give me one second.
	I'm going to reply to her.
	Come back in and I'm going to give her my number.
	I'm not going to say that out loud.
	Come back in and send.
	Okay, hold on.
	I think Joe can probably still see me.
	Chat, do you still see me?
	I guess that's the question.
	Let me just go to the chat in Rumble.
	Guys, do you still see me?
	Your connection, my connection is solid.
	Okay, I'm not reading that.
	Can't say I learned anything, but okay.
	Okay, you guys can see me, so let me just tell Joe to come back in.
	I hope, being a neurotic individual, I hope she doesn't think that I just reconnect, and I will bring you back in.
	Let's see over here.
	Oh, no.
	See, now I'm starting to think paranoid thoughts.
	Like, maybe Jo got angry.
	She did not get angry with me.
	Oh, I see her back here.
	She's back in.
	Okay, hold on.
	While she comes back in, I'm just going to stop my camera from moving right after I get this angle.
	No, that's too much this way.
	This way.
	Stop.
	And this.
	All right.
	She's back.
	Jo, okay.
	Look, it's a bad word.
	Somebody cut me off.
	No, no, no.
	It is your internet.
	It's Commie Canada.
	The internet connection is very weak.
	Or...
	I'm William Trudeau.
	He said, this is not Canadian enough content.
	Down mode.
	We haven't even talked about the CRTC.
	What were we talking about?
	Oh, God.
	We were right in the middle of it.
	I was saying it was brilliant, I'm sure.
	Damn it.
	Oh, we were talking about parents that you believe get caught up in a social contagion.
	Oh, yes, yes, yes.
	Why would any parent do that?
	Yeah.
	I just, I have watched, like...
	Just from my perspective, the amount of kids that I have, and again, I don't have them.
	So a lot of people are like, you don't have kids, you don't know what you're talking about.
	Yeah, but that's also not a fair argument.
	It's not because I have kids that I am an authority, which is why I don't rely on my personal experience.
	I've just seen many, not many, but enough, right?
	And these are parents, and I see them from grades 7 to 12, okay?
	And these are parents that come in and...
	Go through an arduous, painful decision and collaboration.
	Because I've been in rooms with parents and their kid and a psychiatrist.
	And we've really, again, I'm a different kind of school, right?
	Some kids will come to me and that phone call immediately gets made because they'll want a person in the room with them, right?
	And parents talk to me about it.
	Relatively constantly.
	Again, the short haircut.
	They think I know something.
	I don't know.
	But what they're looking for is they don't know.
	No, I have never seen somebody who thinks it's easy, simple, trendy.
	I'm in.
	No, no.
	I have seen kids struggle with it.
	Struggle.
	I have seen parents struggle with it.
	I have seen layers of psychological assessments.
	And I still haven't seen, until they're older, I still haven't seen anything significant being done.
	I have, again, I have heard of hormone blockers in younger kids.
	Like, again, my youngest is grade 7, so what is that, 12?
	But that's pre-puberty.
	I have heard about that, but nobody is entering into it.
	From what I've seen, flippantly.
	I don't think it should be something...
	Here's where we're going to agree.
	And then I think we should probably move on to something we can actually go back and forth on.
	I don't think the majority of anybody enters into their...
	Kid's life being harder and being more painful and being more exclusionary.
	I don't think anybody's choosing that road.
	The majority of people aren't choosing that road lightly.
	And that includes doctors and that includes parents and that includes the kid.
	I know that we see there's ideas of that happening, like just like, oh, it's a Thursday.
	But I don't.
	I don't perceive that as being just like many decisions.
	And this is where I would say, you know, like, well, this is where we fundamentally agree to disagree.
	The doctors don't necessarily enter into it flippantly.
	They enter into it economically because it's been a wildly, wildly lucrative business for them.
	Parents don't enter into it flippantly.
	They enter into it.
	Begrudgingly or with a heavy heart because the doctor who's making a shit ton of money off of the procedures tells them, would you rather have a dead girl or a dead son or a living girl?
	The kids don't enter into it willingly, but my goodness, is it an easy way for the kids to get attention?
	Because at the end of the day, all kids kind of want attention and they find ways of getting it.
	I say this as the youngest child and I had my own ways.
	The kids are also living in a world where...
	They are literally being indoctrinated with it in terms of algorithmic promotion of ideas via TikTok, via Instagram.
	It becomes an easy way for them to attain victim status and therefore attention and valorization in real life.
	And so this is a holy trinity of evil as far as I'm concerned.
	And the victims are going to be the kids and the parents to some extent.
	Yeah, that's...
	The first place we disagree, and I mean, again, this could be a whole other podcast, is the...
	The doctor as a source of profitability and to hell with the welfare and the benefit of the child.
	I don't think we're ever going to see eye to eye on that necessarily.
	I don't think that that's never been a possibility.
	I just think painting doctors with that brush is...
	But see, this is the thing where some people are going to say, and this is where they're going to assess the critical thinking.
	People are going to say, we just lived through COVID.
	We know exactly what the medical industry, what the pharmaceutical industry is willing to do to bend the truth to make its money.
	The pharmaceutical industry might be a little bit different.
	And by the way, you know what I would do the pharmaceutical industry and everybody screams about?
	I'd nationalize it.
	I'm trying to think of it.
	Where would there be a good example of having nationalized medicine?
	I should say we are close to it in Canada.
	How can Canada?
	I find this fascinating.
	This is a whole different subject.
	I find it fascinating that Canada can have a nationalized healthcare industry without nationalizing the cost of pharmaceuticals.
	The two don't go together very well.
	When you're allowing companies to profit with such extreme profits from medication that is necessary in order to provide, like my mom's immunotherapy, right?
	It's over $5,000.
	My mom had immunotherapy for a straight year.
	Over $5,000 each shot.
	I mean, I'm curious about this because it should be covered.
	Why is it?
	Oh, it is.
	But that's how much it was.
	Yeah, but see, that's part of the corruption of having it covered where then because you're insured, they get to jack up the prices and then the pre...
	No, no, no.
	Well, that's Ontario, right?
	I know that immunotherapy is incredibly expensive.
	Yeah, it's all expensive.
	But flip side, Joanne, for goodness sake, you have a nationalized healthcare system in Canada.
	We do.
	That sucks crap.
	I mean, it's objectively terrible.
	It's so terrible.
	Let's use my...
	I mean, we use it as an example, but...
	Look at what my mom just went through.
	And she went through it at the height of COVID.
	At the height of when everything was on the brink of collapse.
	Ironically, that might have been the best time because fewer people were going to the hospital.
	So she might have actually been able to go.
	Everything was terrifying, especially in the beginning, right?
	At some point, again, for the love of God, I don't want to go down the COVID argument.
	The crowd wants to know, Joanne, and I'll leave it.
	I will not grill you on it.
	Okay.
	I don't even know if I want to ask you the question because it's the litmus test.
	It's like pro-abortion, anti-abortion.
	I don't think it's quite as nuanced.
	Pro-vax?
	No, not pro-vax.
	Pro-mandate and pro-lockdown.
	Did you support it?
	And did you support the vaccine mandates?
	And not knowing what you know now.
	I'm going to ask you that as a two-part.
	Did you support it at the time?
	And do you support it now knowing what we all know now?
	So at the time, of course, and I'm saying that honestly because I was scared.
	I think everybody was legitimately scared.
	I have never seen in my lifetime the government decide to shut down money.
	Like, to me, that's...
	It didn't make sense that...
	So, number one, yeah.
	The thing about the mandates, the vaccine mandates, did I agree with getting the shots without being...
	To some degree, yeah, here's my problem.
	You can't, and I've said this in Twitter before, in order for somebody to have a job, let's use it as a job basis, right?
	Nurses.
	We'll stay with nurses because we're there.
	There isn't a single shot that can be mandated for a nurse to take to keep his or her employment.
	There's not one.
	So, anybody who is a nurse in any hospital setting, there is a legitimate out for any shot that they want to take, right?
	During this time, you cannot just add a shot and then, as a result, get fired for not taking it, unless that was a part of your contract in the first place.
	I don't understand how the unions didn't lose their minds about that, which they did, by the way, and you're going to see it.
	They're all going to get money for it.
	They're all going to get money.
	Mark my words.
	It'll take a minute, but they're all going to get money for it.
	Now, if it was in their contract, kind of like the military, because let's be honest, we give those men and women anything the government sees fit, right?
	They have to.
	That's not a choice.
	If it was in their contract, that would be different.
	But since it wasn't, losing your job as a result of that, no.
	Now, if you wanted to say, cool.
	You are going to have to stay home.
	I'm going to pay you.
	Because we think the risk is that high without vaccines.
	I'm going to hire different nurses in order to run while we go through this pandemic.
	To me, that would have been the rational but horrifically expensive choice.
	But it would have been more rational.
	It makes sense.
	I just want to be equitable about the rules of every vaccine and every shot.
	Nurses don't even need to take a TB shot.
	If they can get out of it.
	It was never true for anybody else.
	Teachers didn't have to take the shot.
	We didn't need it, right?
	If we didn't want it.
	It's an interesting thing.
	On the one hand, some people were terrified and still didn't support the mandates.
	I'm fortunate in hindsight to be able to count myself as one of them.
	I was freaked out for maybe two or three weeks and then when I saw that they were locking the dog run outside, it's like, this is bullshit.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I got two shots.
	Not so much because I was terrified of getting the Rona.
	You want to go to Denny's?
	No, no, it wasn't even that.
	I swear to you, it wasn't even that.
	I ran for office in Quebec.
	Oh, okay.
	I was terrified of the social element because my kid went to the daycare right across the street from where we lived, and I always played with the kids in the park.
	I'd come out during lunch.
	If the wild internet guy got a kid sick and they died, I mean...
	It would have been the end of my life regardless, right for right or wrong.
	And I've got a very neurotic Jewish mother who's like, get the vaccine.
	Why aren't you getting the vaccine?
	I took my chances one way or the other, but I never supported the mandates.
	But there were people out there who, you know, you talk about the military, they're forced to take everything.
	There are people out there who know the history of the government, pharma, testing on the military, who didn't support it for that very reason, set aside the whole, they never proved any sort of safety about this, about this vaccine.
	But it's interesting.
	It's a question of perspective.
	I look at you, you say that, and I would then conclude that despite all the evidence of the wrongs of governments have passed, the experimentation on the military, you haven't yet learned the lesson that you can't trust the government, you can't trust people in panic to make the right decisions, and then we're just learning the different lessons from the same set of facts.
	And I say this without judgment.
	I don't think you're stupid.
	Listen, I also sit in a position.
	Let me be very honest.
	I remember going through all of this and people talking about the Tuskegee experiments, which, to be honest, I didn't have a lot of education about.
	I also happen to be white, obviously, upper middle class.
	And I've grown up.
	Remember this, too.
	I've grown up.
	My first steps in a hospital.
	Do you understand?
	I've grown up.
	I don't have the utmost...
	Distrust in government.
	Or, as an extension...
	What is going on?
	I still see you.
	Or, a mistrust of the healthcare system as a whole.
	I don't have it.
	I really don't.
	I don't see it as being...
	I don't have that level of fear.
	That does not mean I don't get second, like if I got a, you know, whatever.
	If something was wrong with me and I got to go to get a second opinion, it doesn't mean I don't do that.
	I don't necessarily trust an individual for being perfect.
	I don't give God complexes to doctors.
	Let me put it that way, right?
	I don't sit down with my doctor and go, oh, whatever you say.
	No, no, I don't.
	But I also...
	I also do have genuine faith, and your people are going to lose their mind.
	Listen, I'm never going to lie on here.
	There's absolutely no point.
	But I do have genuine faith in, let's say this, the science of the day.
	Not to say that the science is always perfect, but I don't know what else to do other than do that.
	This is where I would make a distinction.
	Joe, I mean, this is not a question of arrogance because there's no but.
	Look, I'm just being honest.
	No, I know.
	And this is where people are going to look at you and say, you're smart.
	You're clearly articulate.
	You're just wildly naive.
	That's what people are going to say.
	I would never disagree that there isn't some naivete to who I am, which is why, by the way, I give a lot of room in classrooms.
	I give a lot of room.
	I give a lot of room for the greater good being created by a bigger group of people in the room.
	That's what I mean.
	I mean that the more people at a room, like I would say to my kids, they would say, Joanna, do you want to do the hiring at school?
	I said, no, I don't.
	I would love to be on the committee because if it was just me, I would hire just me's.
	And I don't mean that arrogantly.
	I just mean we are drawn to similar ideas that we see in other people.
	We think they're good people, right?
	People will say, oh, I have a good vibe or I have a connection.
	What you're saying is there's something familiar and it makes you comfortable when you see them.
	I don't necessarily want to be surrounded by comfortable because I don't think it brings out the best.
	If you and I were to sit down and really hash things out, like I know we've jumped all over the map today.
	But I do think we would get to a better solution than if it was just me and my echo chamber and you and yours.
	Well, this is what, for all the shit you might be taking in the chat.
	I can't see the chat, guys.
	You're better off not seeing that.
	No, it's not that bad.
	People are saying, okay, naive, doesn't learn from history, whatever.
	And I'll say this to your credit, and this is not to be...
	To, like, just, you know, make you feel good.
	To your credit, and I suspect your classroom is the same.
	You won't call the student who comes out and says, no, there are only two sexes, boys and girls.
	You won't call that kid a bigot.
	I don't think...
	No, we have a conversation about it.
	And I don't think you would...
	Look, I'll project my own nice...
	I'll project onto you.
	I don't think you would grade them differently.
	I had a philosophy professor at McGill who was a...
	I'll say not an indoctrinated feminist, a wild feminist, because I consider myself to be equal rights, which I think implies feminism, who I believe graded me harshly because I said that Andrea Dworkin is fundamentally wrong in claiming that there's some sort of supremacy to the natural act of sex.
	We can go back and argue feminist philosophy another day!
	I'll come on with you and we'll talk.
	I just need to refresh my memory.
	Because I remember Andrea Dworkett said, you know, the act of sex is inherently male dominance.
	It's like, you cannot moralize an act of nature.
	So in as much as I disagree with you and why you think the way you do, I don't think you would judge students in your class or shut them down.
	I just think it is funny.
	Like when Justin Trudeau comes out and says, I'm very sorry about the residential school systems and you look into why they did it.
	Why they ripped kids out of their homes, stuck them into these religious institutions where they knew they were getting abused.
	Assimilation, better good of the kids, because the government thought that was in the best interest.
	When they became aware of the problems, cover it up and literally bury it.
	Well, it's even worse than that.
	You want to know what they did before that?
	What they did before that was probably the most sadistic part.
	There wasn't a jump between government controlling residential schools all the way to us admitting, the government admitting it was horrible, right?
	There was this middle ground where they took the assimilated, where they took the brainwashed, where they took the manipulated indigenous person, and then had the audacity to put them in charge of the school so they could say, it's not us.
	And that went on until 1994.
	Joe, you have to understand, like, mutatis, mutandis, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
	They've done the exact same thing in the COVID response.
	Like, you know, shut it.
	What's their objective to you?
	Profit and power.
	Okay, so when the government, like, when the country lost the amount, when the world lost the amount of money we lost.
	Who lost it?
	There was a trickle up.
	The rich, true, but the richest percentage got exponentially richer.
	Bill Gates, Amazon, big business.
	Government got exponentially more powerful with taking away rights that have now become privileges that they'll never get back.
	You're right.
	The poor got poorer.
	The middle class suffered.
	The middle class suffered.
	Problems of capitalism, I'm in!
	Well, no, but this isn't capitalism.
	This is global tyranny.
	The marginalized communities got more marginalized.
	It is the end game of capitalism.
	Here we are.
	I disagree with that.
	I think it's the end game of totalitarianism.
	Who controls?
	If we're going to go down that line of thought, the billionaires have their billions.
	Who are they controlling?
	Who are they financing?
	What are the laws serving?
	Politicians.
	They're going to serve their agenda.
	So we agree on the concept.
	I wouldn't call it capitalism.
	I would call it...
	You might call it the end goal of democracy, but it's...
	Authoritarianism, one world government.
	That's what it is.
	But it doesn't work unless you have the massive accumulation of wealth in the hands of the few.
	Unless you develop an oligarchy on the back of capitalism.
	We don't even live in a capitalist world anymore.
	We live in something else.
	When we have the monopolies that we have, I think we can all admit it should be called something else.
	Because the primary function of capitalism has to be competition.
	I don't know about what you guys got going on down there, but when I choose Rogers...
	I don't choose Rogers.
	That's because you live in a...
	You now...
	It's my country still.
	It's a communist hellhole.
	Here, we have more selection.
	There actually is more cellular selection, but you're still stuck with AT&T.
	You give the illusion.
	You go to the grocery store and you go walk down the cookie aisle and you're like, cool, I can have Oreos.
	I can have chocolate chip.
	I'm going to buy whatever's on sale.
	It's all owned by the same damn company.
	Absolutely.
	I'm looking at this right now.
	This is...
	What is this?
	San Pellegrino.
	Who owns it?
	I can't see.
	This is how you...
	It's probably Coke.
	I'm trying to see.
	Buble is owned by Pepsi or Coke.
	We agree on that.
	I think it's a cool conversation to have, though.
	I think it's interesting to talk about what choice really is and the illusion of choice that maybe we all think we have but don't necessarily have to the degree in which we have it.
	I've become radically and wildly aware of that during COVID.
	You know, people ask, who profits?
	It's obvious who profits.
	The currency of politics is power, and the currency of those who want to control the world is both power and money, and they've gotten more of it now than they've ever had before as a direct result.
	You could do one thing, just one thing, because I don't want to go too far down this road, to change it, what would it be?
	I cannot say that without getting pulled on.
	I'm joking.
	I'm totally joking.
	If one thing...
	Yeah, one thing.
	It would be to regain national autonomy, national sovereignty.
	And how do you do that?
	How do you do that without completely eradicating international economic agreements and globalization?
	I would do that.
	NAFTA has historically not been good.
	Get rid of NAFTA.
	Yeah, I have to get rid of NAFTA.
	I mean, these sweeping policies, there were ways...
	Well, I have to...
	Any international economic relationship that devalues or takes away from the autonomous power of the United States, let's say, because you're in the United States.
	Well, again, there's a line to it.
	There's a line to it.
	Like, between free trade versus, let's just take the Paris Accord.
	I would, by and large, back out of all global institutions.
	And I would, by and large, ban these unelected globalist institutions that exercise an undue amount of influence and penetration of national government.
	What about the massive billionaire influences within the United States that now have complete control?
	It's a very big problem.
	It's a big problem between corruption of politics and business.
	And I would actually...
	Here, Citizens United.
	I think, maybe this is going to be the wildest, stupidest thing I've ever said.
	I would limit contributions to political candidates.
	Wildly.
	It's just done so secretively, right?
	But it's interesting here.
	I think...
	You can't, I'm gonna, you know what, I'm not even gonna say because I'm not gonna get the right number.
	I didn't think to look at this up about what the maximum donation is and what's the maximum you can have when you run, right, for...
	In Canada, I think it's 200 bucks.
	But then the problem is they all start their filthy, corrupt foundations, which is nothing but a pay-to-play, whether it's the Trudeau Foundation.
	So they find loopholes, just like people find loopholes around, you know.
	They find loopholes around taxes.
	They find loopholes around paying their share.
	It's all about how do I, how can I, and I know you're a lawyer, but how can I use the law to the letter of the law, which we haven't really even talked about the Don't Say Gay Bill, but how can I use the letter of the law?
	Because I'll tell you how I teach in Florida and I have a riot doing it.
	I might wind up in trouble.
	But how can I use the letter of the law to...
	Pursue an agenda that I want to pursue.
	And I think therein lies a huge problem.
	And the more money you have, the more you can do that.
	Everybody has a price, right?
	Which is horrible, but painfully true.
	We talked at the beginning about whether I monetize my stuff.
	I don't.
	It's not that I don't want to make money from doing what I do and speaking and all of those things.
	I'm not that person.
	I just want to do it in a very authentic way, and I haven't found that yet.
	I won't product place.
	Don't get me wrong.
	If McDonald's would like me to be in a commercial, please.
	See, I'm not even sure I could do McDonald's, even though I just had lunch there with my kids.
	I didn't eat it, but there's something about a McDonald's lunch that's fun for everybody.
	But I would only feel good sponsoring something that's actually good for you and not destructive.
	Oh, I can't support anything.
	You should monetize your channel.
	There's nothing wrong with it.
	You have insight and people want to see it.
	There's no shame in it.
	People say, I don't have to sit through an ad.
	People want free content and don't want to have to sit through an ad or skip an ad.
	I don't feel like there's...
	And maybe it's also I'm coming from a place where obviously I have a job that I do.
	And I come from a place where I fell into it.
	It's...
	I slipped into it.
	I really did.
	I didn't even think anything of it.
	So the idea of making money from it seems counterintuitive.
	Like I said, I keep getting all these emails about products and stuff like that.
	I'm like, listen, I'm not interested in selling a water bottle.
	I was going to make...
	Never mind.
	I was going to make a joke about the Dylan Mulvaney's taking the jobs or taking the sponsorships from...
	Oh, have a good time.
	No, so forget that.
	I'm not going to make...
	But it is probably the good segue into...
	Get to the Don't Say Gay bill because...
	Okay, you don't teach what I would do.
	You want to know what I would do?
	So I'd walk into my classroom.
	So what is his rule?
	His rule is, we don't talk about sexuality.
	We don't talk about gender.
	We don't talk about pronouns.
	Good.
	Gone.
	So, pronouns in my classroom, non-existing.
	You can be called whatever your name is, and that's how you'll address that person.
	Well, hold on.
	Hold on.
	I think it's preferred pronouns, not biological pronouns.
	We agree.
	A penis, a person with a penis...
	All of them are gone.
	But you can't...
	Preferred pronouns, let's be honest...
	A woman presenting as a woman, in some situations, that's her preferred pronoun.
	We never got to the censorship part, but you're going to say that my free speech should not be controlled.
	What I get to call you should not be controlled by what you want to be called.
	So if I look at you and refuse to use he, him pronouns, because guess what?
	I have free speech.
	Absolutely.
	That becomes your preferred pronoun.
	So I'm taking DeSantis to the letter, like to the letter.
	I'm just going- Well, no, no, hold on.
	Hold on.
	The letter of the law is you can't use a preferred pronoun that is not consistent with the sex assigned at birth.
	That's the- Is that the whole sentence?
	It's something along those lines.
	I could pull it up.
	I think I shared it earlier.
	But yeah, it's basically, you cannot be, you cannot ask or be compelled to use a pronoun that is not indicative of the gender, the sex at birth.
	Then nowhere in there does it say, I have to use pronouns.
	No, no, that was- Well, I'm just telling you.
	I'm just telling you how I get around it.
	Well, no, but you want to get around it to prove a point.
	Yes, I do.
	But the point being that you say, well, I don't need to use any pronouns then.
	And by the way, that's my solution also.
	I don't care what someone's first name is.
	I'll call Dylan all day.
	But what I will not say is that she has a penis.
	I will not say Dylan Mulvaney is a she.
	She got testicular cancer.
	I will not say that.
	But the issue is...
	And this is the issue of the real issue.
	It is a battle of free speech.
	Okay, I want to be able to be called she.
	If I'm a boy or if I'm a boy and I identify as a girl, call me she.
	If you don't do that, you're, you know, I don't know what right you're violating of mine.
	Someone can call me an asshole all day long and I can't stop them, nor would I even want to.
	But in Canada, it has literally been criminalized to some extent.
	Well, to some extent.
	To deliberately misgender.
	Yeah, let's give that the nuance it deserves.
	Like, for example, no one's going to prison, okay, for misgender.
	It's just not happening.
	Having said that, if I am at my place of work, okay, I have free speech, right?
	So I can't go around and harass people.
	That would be a fireable offense.
	It would also seem logical that the person I was harassing could then sue me.
	For said harassment, they could take me and take me to a lawsuit, right?
	What I think, and I know you're the lawyer, so heaven help me, but what I think we're talking about here is adding purposeful, not accidental, purposeful misgendering as a way that people can harass.
	Because if you don't want to use he, him pronouns for, let's say I was trans, okay?
	You don't need to, but you can call me Joe, because that's my name.
	Right?
	So you have a way around.
	If you're going to purposefully, every chance you get, with a bit of a grin on your face, say she, I think it's fair to say it's harassment.
	And as a lawyer, that was one of my arguments all the time, is that psychological harassment has always been already covered under the law.
	The issue becomes, when that psychological harassment...
	And I'll put it in quotes, is literally as fickle and capricious as the person's desire of the day.
	When someone says, okay, well, today I'm a he, tomorrow I'm a they, and it has become that capricious.
	Has anybody gone to jail?
	Well, first of all, in British Columbia, there was the case.
	It was an Italian-sounding restaurant name where they got fined like $30,000 to $40,000 for misgendering.
	You don't pay that fine, you go to jail.
	I mean, that's not just the slippery slope.
	That's the trajectory.
	What is Italian?
	Buena parte.
	Text it to me or email it to me later.
	I'll do it right now.
	It's a British Columbia restaurant.
	Misgendered.
	Oh, come on.
	It's called Buena Nostria.
	Here we go.
	British Columbia Restaurant has been awarded a former server.
	Here, check this out.
	Also an employee.
	Yeah, for sure.
	And they'd only worked there for a month.
	What if that same restaurant chose to use the N-word to describe one of their employees?
	Well, yeah.
	And then some people are going to say, well, calling someone by their biological sex is not the same thing as using a historical denogatory slur.
	Let's assume for a minute.
	Let's assume for a minute that purposefully misgendering someone...
	I have to stop you there.
	I'm not purposely doing anything other than respecting biology.
	You are purposely choosing to not abide...
	And this is interesting because it absolutely plays no harm to you.
	And I'm going to go you one step further.
	If they passed...
	Everybody knows what I mean by that.
	If they did not make it my issue in terms of compelling me.
	If they passed, nobody has any problems.
	And that's the cool philosophical argument.
	But then it becomes about passing and not about biology.
	It doesn't become about chromosomes.
	No, then it becomes a question of independent choice versus compulsion of speech.
	If someone passes, I have no idea.
	I would never ask.
	There are some cases, like Pat the androgynous person, where sometimes you ask, just to be polite.
	Some people don't.
	Did you just cite a skit, Pat?
	Yeah, Pat.
	You remember, obviously you remember Pat from SNL.
	Okay, fine.
	Good.
	But there are some cases, you know, like Pat.
	There are some cases where it happens accidentally, but I think the bottom line is compelling anybody to refer to somebody because they prefer to be identified contrary to the biology is if they pass and I didn't know, no harm, no foul.
	No one's telling me what to say that defies biology and science.
	But again?
	Yep.
	If I use, if I'm, again, compelling speech, if I want to use some horrific slur to describe somebody, why is that not okay?
	Well, there's two...
	Legally, you can explain the legal road for that.
	Well, I guess there's two things.
	Some people would say, if you want to, you know, refer to someone as the N-word...
	Whatever, we can use any slur we want.
	Some people don't believe that hate speech should be a thing, period.
	And Canada has it.
	Fine.
	There's no hate speech in the States.
	Well, there's no prohibition on hate speech.
	There's certainly guidelines and protocols or consequences.
	But in terms of it being criminalized, which it has been in Canada, protected classes, people have an issue with it.
	The problem here is you're adding a protected class based on What is sometimes purely capricious, you have a Sam, what's that guy's name who, the singer?
	Sam Harris?
	Sam Smith.
	Hey, from one day to the next goes to they.
	Now, he's a fisher they.
	And you have some people who, they're fluid, so they don't know it.
	One day it's a he, one day it's a she, another day it's a they.
	You have some people who it's she they, or he they.
	I don't even know how that makes sense.
	So...
	The idea of being compelled against your will to defy biology in your speech is, I mean, it should be outlandish.
	It's not an ethnic slur.
	And some people might say to liken ethnic slurs to recognizing biology is itself wildly offensive.
	You're not recognizing biology.
	Let's just delineate something.
	You are recognizing the pretense.
	You are recognizing the...
	Performative aspect of biology.
	And that's the thing that nobody ever really talks about.
	Again, the hand on my shoulder when I walk into the girls' bathroom.
	People are very often, I know in some cases it's clear, and I know some people, they've made their transition very, very public, so it's very, very clear.
	But a lot of people, and this goes back to the how we're defined and how society responds to us and how we get to interact with society, the hand on my shoulder isn't about my genetics.
	It's about the pretense.
	It's about the presentation of my gender.
	Yeah, well, right up until the genetics.
	Right up until the biology.
	But nobody's testing.
	Listen, when I'm walking into that bathroom, do you think I have to prove it?
	Well, first of all, I mean, I think it's...
	Nobody's saying, wait a minute.
	No, it becomes...
	First of all, it becomes...
	Even in...
	I say even.
	You have attributes which some regressive stereotypes would say are masculine.
	Short hair, skin fade.
	I don't even go by those regressive stereotypes.
	It's fantastic.
	But have you seen...
	I used to have a skin fade.
	I loved it.
	When I would feel the back of...
	It's such an upkeep, I'm telling you.
	Every two weeks.
	No, and also, if you touch it after you get the shave, you can get ingrown hairs.
	But it's so nice.
	You just want to sit there.
	It feels like a...
	It really is.
	Everybody should try it that's listening.
	I'll send you a picture.
	I had a great shop down on Monkland and it went out of business.
	I think it went out of business.
	Oh, the don't say gay.
	Let's just agree we're going to be at an impasse here.
	I think the issue is if I think someone's a woman and if they pass, nobody's telling me what to do.
	If I make a mistake and someone happens to be a boy and looks like a girl, it happens with kids all the time.
	Then I will respect biology.
	But then, I mean, let's take it one step further.
	I think I'm the Queen of England.
	Call me your highness.
	And if you don't, it's psychological harassment.
	At what point does caving, or at least pandering to mental illness, cease being harassment and just start being harassment of the other person?
	I do think it's slightly disingenuous to talk about the difference between somebody who is trans and somebody who thinks they're the Queen of England.
	But why?
	I'll give you a very legitimate reason.
	Because there's many ways to be trans and there's many ways to present.
	And I don't necessarily think...
	Let's say when we talk about pronouns and we talk about gender...
	What I think a lot of people, what I think is a very interesting conversation to have is when we talk about gender and gender roles and expectations, if we were to obliterate that, I honestly believe a lot of the conversation we're having back and forth would...
	Melt away.
	Because what we've told people forever is that it is binary.
	And we haven't even talked about the fact that genetically it's not even binary.
	I realize it's a small percentage, but genetically it's not even binary.
	Well, set aside genetic anomalies, which are the interesting...
	But that's a lot of people.
	If I start taking out the other six genetic anomalies, it's a lot of people of the population.
	But what I'm talking about here is...
	When we put such expectation and consequence and limitation on gender, and by the way, that's more so delineated and more so restrictive, which guys can never believe when I talk about this, to men.
	Women, I'm allowed for the most part to walk around like this.
	Once in a blue moon, I get a hand on my shoulder, right?
	But I'm allowed.
	Girls, cis-born girls are allowed to come to school with short hair and baggy pants, right?
	It's accepted.
	And not only is accepted, to some degree, I'm moving up.
	Because we still live in a world where masculinity and the ideas of masculinity are prioritized, are seen as more important as feminine traits.
	Being rational, being competitive, being strong, right?
	And again, I'm not trying to...
	I'm not supporting that idea.
	I'm saying it is what it is.
	So, when we've done this, we've predominantly done this to men.
	We have limited...
	When I watch a young guy go through struggles at school, and I watch the outlets that they have...
	Or don't have as a result of our culture and what they can and can't do and what they can and can't access and how they can talk about it and how they can't.
	It is, to me, the fundamental flaw when we talk about growth in our society.
	Everybody's listening to Andrew Tate.
	We need to stop because we need to talk about...
	This is the hypocrisy or the contradiction in terms.
	We place too much emphasis on gender stuff.
	And so we tell a boy who thinks that he's into girl stuff that he must be a girl and that he has to change his identity.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	But that's not what I'm speaking to at all.
	Not at all.
	I'm saying if we loosen those restrictions, if we stop telling our young boys so emphatically, which they are, by the way, if you play with a Barbie, you're gay.
	That's not what my son does.
	That is not.
	If we stop doing that.
	If we started teaching our kids how to be kids, by the way.
	Yeah, well, first of all, I think I just have to disagree with the premise.
	I don't think people say that a kid playing with a doll is gay, and I think people who do that are doing the exact same type of gender-deforming stuff.
	But someone in the chat also, I was literally going to say it, referring to the genetic anomalies are different than psychological predilections.
	I mean, that's the thing.
	Genetic anomalies exist.
	Nobody denies that.
	Sure.
	And there's that one athlete where it's...
	Intrasex, I think, is the word.
	But for the rest of it, it's psychological predilections, if not mental illness, that you are...
	I had a schizophrenic cousin.
	You have a big group of doctors, and I know you're going to say, to hell with doctors, they suck.
	I don't know how else to have the conversation unless I've gone to med school and become a psychiatrist.
	I don't know how else to have the conversation.
	Yeah, but the problem with that is I don't need to have a medical degree to know that there is...
	Barring breast cancer, there's no reason to cut off the breasts of a 15-year-old girl to make her into physiologically a boy.
	I don't need to be a doctor for that.
	I'm assuming you stand against all physical changes for people generally?
	I said the...
	Where I run into the accusation of hypocrisy...
	Circumcision.
	That's the one that everyone always thinks they come back and say, gotcha.
	But no, I say that...
	It would be illegal, but that's just me.
	Well, and I understand people who think it should be illegal because it certainly is.
	If anyone's seen it, it's not a nice thing to look at.
	That's all I'm saying.
	But I draw the line at what I refer to as mutilation, which is deforming the otherwise proper functioning of bodily organs for no physiologically necessary reason.
	Can I give you an example?
	Go for it.
	So about 10 years ago, I had a grade 12 student who was waiting to turn 17. Can you still see me?
	Yeah, I can still see you.
	I blame Rogers and Trudeau.
	As do I. Yes!
	We got her, people.
	We got her.
	Sorry.
	Go on.
	Oh, now you're frozen.
	Okay, we're going to let it reboot again.
	Joe, hold on.
	Let me email you and just tell you that I can let it reboot.
	Now I'm curious about the...
	Well, there you are.
	You're back.
	Hello?
	Yeah, you froze for a second.
	So if you think I just heard what you just said, I didn't.
	I can still see you, Joe.
	Hold on.
	Let me go.
	Don't pick your nose!
	Okay.
	She might have to come back.
	Let me go to the chat and see what's going on.
	Let me go to the locals.
	VivaBarnesLaw.locals.com until I hear Joe come back.
	I'm not sure I'm going to read all of these.
	Okay.
	Okay, I'm going to wait for Jo to come back.
	I think she just popped out.
	She's going to have to reboot because...
	Wait for more of this.
	In Canada of the year 2024, the internet goes out when the internet hears words it doesn't consider to be Canadian content.
	People, I'm reading the chat.
	I told Jo not to read the chat because the internet is the internet and people speak freely.
	And there are genuine disagreements.
	And then there are people who take advantage of the anonymity of the internet.
	But we're both big people.
	Big, big.
	Give me two minutes.
	Okay.
	We'll do.
	Let me reply to that.
	This is.
	You don't have to agree with the people you're talking to.
	And if the purpose of discussion is to compel them or to hope that they agree with you, That's disingenuous discourse.
	We're fleshing out.
	Where fundamentally, we disagree.
	And I told her live, so I can say it again now.
	It's the idea that at some point, you see the corruption in institutions.
	You see the corruption in government.
	And it's an amazing thing.
	Mutatis mutandis, the more things change.
	The rationale stays the same.
	The MO, to some extent, stays the same.
	And the reason why there is no less corruption in today's government than there was 100 years ago is because people are people.
	Institutions have certain traits to the institutions.
	Those who vie for political power, some do it for damn good reasons, as do some people who become teachers and police officers.
	Others do it for damn bad reasons.
	And I would venture to say that in politics, there are a great...
	Disproportionately more people who get into politics for the bad reasons than, say, teaching.
	Because you can't get away with being a, you know, a corrupt, money-pocket-lining teacher for very long.
	but you can do it in politics forever.
	And so the idea, like, oh yeah, the government of a hundred years ago, just as corrupt as it is today because the people who vie for those positions...
	And so you have Justin Trudeau doing it for the good of society, the greater good.
	When they find out they've made a horrible, horrible mistake, find their scapegoats, brush it under the rug.
	Joe is back.
	Three, two, one.
	Bring her in.
	Okay.
	Yay!
	At least you're not in jail.
	If I see the Trudeau regime bust down the door and say you've had a little too much to think.
	Oh, my God.
	First of all, I've been reviewing your case, by the way, while I was put in Twitter, whatever that jail was.
	Buena Nostria, I think, was the name of the last one?
	Yeah, so it says that, and this is just what I'm reading, obviously, off whatever I'm on here.
	The court was a human rights tribunal.
	Yep, those wonderful.
	That the person, so the person was non-binary gender fluid, who used they, them pronouns, was terminated.
	After four weeks, I think.
	I actually read the proceedings.
	Oh, there's a 42-page decision.
	Yeah, yeah.
	No, I read it.
	I have to go see.
	I think I made a vlog about it.
	I'll have to go back and check.
	After Tencent's Rose.
	So eventually...
	Oh, they were too strong, too fast, and too militant for demanding using they-them pronouns, and then they were fired.
	Yeah.
	The person was fired, which is what the source of their...
	No, no, no.
	It was because...
	There was the misgendering aspect.
	Yeah, but they were at the Human Rights Tribunal for the misgendering, not for the wrongful termination.
	But it was, that's why they were fired.
	So they said they became, they said that they made an argument because the person became too militant and too strong, too fast, whatever that means.
	And then they were, when they were fired, because the Human Rights Commission made an actionable...
	That's right.
	Go to the, it says, the decision says bar manager Brian, I don't want to name people that's donated for that, was particularly hostile, repeatedly, persistently referring to Nelson as she, her, and with gendered nicknames like sweetheart, honey, and pinky, a reference to their pink hair.
	But appreciate this, by the way, because this is the funny thing.
	I noticed occasionally you use the word hun in tweets and in discourse.
	It makes people so mad and they're going to bring up, they're going to say, that's sexist.
	No, no.
	What they're going to say is, you're living in a world where you're ushering in your own censorship, but you just might not see it because you still have naive faith that the government won't come for you.
	But if you say hun to someone, it's like, don't call me hun.
	Then you're going to have to grovel and apologize for misgendering someone and saying, I didn't mean to do it.
	I'll be better for the future.
	Listen, my...
	Particular stance is very, very clear on that.
	I don't care what you want me to call.
	And I don't make this argument because it's my personal one, but why on earth whatever you wish me to call you?
	I mean, that's what I'm going to stick with.
	Could I make a mistake?
	I've had kids.
	I've had really good friends transition.
	And sometimes it's hard.
	I've had friends that have transitioned that I've known for a long time, and every once in a while, it falls out of my mouth because I've known them for 10 years as a she, and let's say now as a here, whatever.
	And that mistake happens, but I do consider it a mistake, and I do acknowledge, I know we were deep in a gender conversation a second ago, because I do think that the way that we create a binary, the way that we create the world, The empirical treatment of people matters with how you present and how they respond to that presentation.
	And when we're talking about something so superficial, I just think maybe it's time we start just deconstructing the why of that.
	Because that matters.
	The why is easy.
	You're asking me to violate.
	To contradict a biological fact.
	No, no, not that why.
	The why about why we have the binary, the gender binary in the first place.
	What purpose is it serving?
	How is it restricting us?
	How is it limiting who we're allowed to be and how we're allowed to be that person?
	I read something today that 40% of our happiness index is genetic.
	What?
	And then I did a little bit of research, as much as I can understand.
	I'm like, 40% of how happy we are has nothing to do with circumstance.
	It has to do with our genetic coding, right?
	What sort of is preset in our brains?
	And I thought about that for a second.
	I'm like, holy shit.
	If that's true, think about everything else that we are genetically predisposed to do.
	Not based on gender roles.
	Genetically predisposed to do, but I'm wondering, I would love this study, how much do we almost immediately disclude based on the sex to which we were born?
	Or how much do other people immediately...
	And you're going off like, oh, parents never say don't play with that doll.
	Stop it.
	No, but even if, first of all, that's within their...
	That's within their prerogative as parents.
	And I may disagree with it.
	Some say, don't get into chess.
	I might disagree with it, but that's the prerogative of the parents.
	Where we have the issue is whether or not teachers should have any role in having any discussion about that with kids, let alone a secret role that they would be doing with the kids and concealing it from the parents.
	The concealing and the secret, that's a different conversation.
	100%.
	The only time...
	I can't even conceive of that, but the only time is when I thought a kid would be in threat at their home, and if that was the case, I'd have to pick up the phone and I'd have to call another agency anyway.
	If I thought a kid was at risk in their home, my job as a teacher, which is the part...
	When people talk about teaching, it's like you think it's just this easy, disconnected job, when in actuality...
	Especially elementary school teachers are the front lines for finding and for acknowledging.
	Horrible things going on in their home.
	But this is the question, and this is when it becomes a slippery slope.
	If people consider misgendering as domestic violence, as a judge in British Columbia suggested in that case.
	And then you might get a teacher.
	I'm not saying you, and this is not a finger-pointing.
	You might get a teacher who says, if I tell the parents, they might continue to misgender the kid and cause domestic violence.
	So now I'm empowered by this obiter and a decision.
	I'm going to keep it secret, because if I tell the parents, they're going to...
	Carry out this act of verbal violence and continue to misgender their kid.
	I have a question for you.
	Take away the gender aspect for a second and the trans act.
	Let's talk about a gay kid.
	If I've known people, now granted I'm obviously older, but coming out in their home or their parents finding out they're gay would have met with extreme violence.
	Physical violence.
	Well, I don't know how you...
	Let's just say the kid has bruises.
	Like a kid comes to school with bruises.
	It's a no-brainer.
	Hold on.
	I'm not saying that that's reached, okay?
	Because here's the hard part as a teacher.
	And again, I've never really faced this because I've really...
	Over 20 years, it's quite amazing how you see the transition of a culture, to be perfectly honest, in their kids.
	What they're wanting to talk about, what they debate about, what they don't debate about, what they care about.
	To walk home, if I was in my house and I was going to come out or I had a girlfriend at school and my teacher was going to tell my parent I had a girlfriend.
	Because that's what they want, right?
	They want teachers to be open with parents.
	But as the kid, I know that if you tell my mom that I'm gay, I'm going to go home and I'm going to get beat.
	Now what do we do?
	But I haven't got beat yet.
	Well, there's two things.
	First of all, I don't even think you should be...
	If you see a kid, a girl with a girl, I don't even think it's your...
	I don't think it would be your prerogative to ask what the nature of that relationship is.
	I would love for you...
	I would love to never know anything about my...
	Absolutely.
	They talk about it incessantly.
	I'll tell you, they talk about it incessantly because they have been now brought up to think that this is something that should be talked about incessantly with their teachers.
	That's true.
	When I was in elementary school, when I was in elementary school, grade 7 and 8, everybody had a boyfriend and a girlfriend.
	It was all over the school.
	Everybody knew.
	They'd sit on each other's laps.
	We had a girl in grade 7 get pregnant.
	What school did you go to?
	My goodness.
	I can start giving up statistics right now.
	What I'm saying is that that has been a consistent truth.
	Having boyfriends and girlfriends in high school is important.
	Unless I'm mistaken, my recollection is even boys and girls didn't kiss in school.
	They didn't hold hands in school.
	And it was nothing about...
	You were in Quebec.
	I was in Quebec.
	Well, I went to three different high schools.
	One of them was an all-boys school, so that was a no-brainer.
	The other two were...
	One was a private Jewish school.
	The other one was an all-boys school.
	Then the third one, this is in five years.
	Your mom really had you on lockdown.
	Oh, I was out of control.
	Lucky to not have gotten arrested.
	We lived in Canada.
	Or Quebec, I should say.
	I mean, my God.
	There is...
	From when I was a kid.
	I'm going to do a poll.
	The fact that you think there's not kissing going on in high school.
	Now I know there is, but there are still rules.
	When I was in high school.
	90s.
	80s.
	The issue is not whether there was kissing.
	The issue is whether or not open displays of affection were tolerated.
	What do you think?
	They hit us with a brick?
	I know, but at the dances, you weren't allowed, you know, the balloon distance between dances.
	You weren't allowed doing...
	Where did you grow up?
	1957?
	No!
	We were allowed dancing at parties.
	I'm telling you, there was behavior that was not tolerated at school.
	You're younger than me.
	You're telling me at a high school dance.
	I don't even know that we had high school dances.
	But there was certain conduct, heterosexual conduct, that was not...
	I have to go back and refresh my memory.
	But all that to say, the idea that a teacher would say...
	I'm going to tell you this story in a second.
	Hold on, you didn't finish the one about the grade 12 kid.
	You were telling a story about a grade 12 kid.
	Oh, what happened?
	We got distracted.
	Yeah, that's when it froze.
	This isn't about gender at all.
	She sat there and she goes, it's my 17th birthday.
	Do you want to know what I'm getting for my 17th birthday?
	I said, yeah, sure.
	Cool.
	What are you getting?
	I'm thinking a car or something, you know, completely ridiculous.
	She says, heightening surgery.
	I went, excuse me?
	And she kind of like, like everybody's like, looks at her like, what are you talking about?
	They have that?
	Because I might have known that.
	How tall are you, Jo?
	5 '6".
	Oh, you got a half inch on me, probably.
	This is the extra.
	No, I think I'm fine.
	On my license, I'm a meter 65, so I'll stick to that.
	So she says this, and I said, what are you talking about?
	And she goes, on my 17th birthday, the doctor said that I'm grown enough, or whatever.
	Like, they can tell, I guess, when your growth plates have fused, or I don't know, however that works.
	So you're not going to grow anymore.
	And he said, by my 17th birthday, he said that I can get this surgery.
	It's expensive.
	And I'm like, what are they going to do?
	Here's what they're going to do.
	They're going to break your tibia and fibula.
	They're going to cut your leg in half.
	Add something of an extension that's going to solidify.
	The best thing to do is a two-inch spacer.
	You are going to stay in traction for eight weeks until it heals.
	And I said...
	You're going to do this for two inches?
	She was 5 '4", by the way.
	You're going to do this for two inches?
	She's like, yeah.
	I go, I can't remember.
	She told me how much it cost.
	It was incredible.
	On her 17th birthday.
	I'm just telling you the story.
	As we're talking about surgery, as we're talking about, and that's not to take into account all of the...
	Rhinoplasties.
	Breast augmentation absolutely happens.
	All of the different treatment, by the way, that young girls can get.
	And the list goes on and on and on.
	There's two separate arguments in there, both of which are...
	One of them is problematic, which is the fact that other people do bad things now is not an excuse to add more bad things to them.
	When they were trying to convince people to get the jab, you had the Sarah Silverman saying, come on, you've done cocaine, you've smoked drugs that you found on the ground, take the jab.
	That was her shtick.
	No, it was like, you've done street drugs, you could take the COVID jab.
	I'm like, yeah, if you're likening the jab to the street drugs, not your best argument.
	So people doing worse things doesn't mean they should be allowed to do this.
	As far as the heightening surgery, you know, it's definitely not something I would ever suggest, recommend or support, especially being a short person, realizing all the benefits of that.
	I would not call that mutilation because you're not, you know, that's not mutilation.
	That's just exposing yourself to wild risks for...
	Cosmetic reasons.
	The boob jobs.
	I still think you have to be a certain age.
	It could be consequential afterwards.
	Like, she did talk about what the ramifications could be.
	Functionality maybe.
	Yeah, well, I imagine that would be a very weak spot.
	Maybe susceptible to break.
	There's a lot of different things that go down that road, right?
	But even then, the issue with the whole transgender stuff is when they get to be an 18-year-old kid, let them do whatever the hell they want.
	I interviewed...
	Chloe Cole.
	I don't know if you know who she is.
	I'll flip you the interview afterwards.
	She's the one who got a double mastectomy at 15 years old.
	Autistic spectrum.
	Fully exploited by the system.
	Regretted the decision afterwards.
	Got a double mastectomy, gender affirming, at the age of 15. What state was she in?
	I want to say Washington-ish.
	In the States, for sure.
	She's currently suing the doctors now.
	Is she...
	Obviously, she's detransitioning.
	She is what I think is being referred to as detransitioning, but she is definitely...
	She's a she at this point.
	She's always been a she, but we'll set aside that semantic.
	She now regrets the mutilation that doctors carried out on her body on a 15-year-old developing girl.
	I interviewed a guy also, Tulip R. Ritchie.
	Tulip R. Ritchie.
	Yeah, he's on Twitter.
	He got the neo-vagina.
	Built in as a 28-year-old, but a 28-year-old suffering from a number of mental conditions in Britain.
	Immediately regretted it.
	The interviews are worth watching.
	I mean, again, you're going person by person.
	I'm still going with this statistic at 1%.
	Here's my question to you.
	Let's say we're 10 years down the road.
	Okay, 10 years down the road, because you're arguing that when I bring up the statistic, because I can bring you a bunch of anecdotes, I can tell you a bunch of people.
	But I think your statistic is wildly off anyhow, but let's set that aside.
	But let's just, I can tell you a bunch of people that have had transition surgeries that are doing incredibly well, that are incredibly happy, that have their own stuff going, right?
	So you can sit here and say this person, I'll say this person, and we can play that game.
	That's why the anecdotal story doesn't...
	Right, but let's assume for a second, let's even say 5%.
	If 10 years down the road, there is a 5% regret rate and a 90%...
	No, I think it's going to be a 40% suicide rate.
	I'm just saying.
	I'm just asking.
	5% are unhappy and they want to detransition.
	95% are happy.
	Do you agree with it then?
	A...
	What's the tipping point for you?
	Well, the tipping point is fully developed brain of majority.
	18 years old, do whatever you want.
	And that's 25. That's, like, later, though, right?
	Well, no, I mean, look.
	Your developed brain is probably around 22, 23, 24. Joe, old enough to get a tattoo.
	Old enough to do that.
	Not old enough to get a tattoo.
	Not old enough to lop off your breasts.
	By the way, guess what?
	A 15-year-old can just get a tattoo because they come in with their mom's consent.
	That is a problem as well.
	In Florida, I actually looked into it.
	I don't even think you can do that.
	But I think the statistic is wildly off.
	But even if it's fine, it is majority.
	You can't do it to kids, period.
	It would be a hard line.
	But I think also that the rate of suicide is wildly higher than anyone wants to admit because specifically you cannot treat a mental illness with physical surgery.
	You just can't do it.
	Can we also, though, at least at the very least put on the table that when we talk about people that commit suicide or we talk about people that attempt suicide, possibly, maybe, their gender identity isn't the only thing on the table and it's a multifaceted...
	Reality for that individual.
	And just narrowing it down to that is pretty disingenuous.
	No, I'm not down.
	I shouldn't have cut you off there.
	I apologize.
	Of their entire, let's say, their entire issue.
	Like, there are lots of people with lots of different sort of psychological issues that can go to that.
	And I'm going to stay one step further.
	If we live in a society, again, I live in Toronto.
	I look the way I do.
	I have a nice life.
	I don't face that kind of hate and vitriol, even though after that I might get a bit on Twitter after being on here from some of your people.
	No, you're going to get it from your people.
	No.
	Because the people that, well, for the most part, not to say that...
	By any means, they love everything I say.
	But for the most part, they know that the most thing I'm interested in is good discussion, even if I disagree.
	But what I'm saying is, like, facing that vitriol and facing that hate, there's only so much you can bear.
	Let's use Dylan Mulvaney as an example, all right?
	Again, put the politics aside.
	Put your issues of...
	Whether you think you would call her a she, all of that.
	Just put all of that aside.
	And let's just look at her as a person who can't go anywhere anymore.
	Now, I know you're going to say, well, she did to herself because she put herself on social media.
	But again, how much could one person handle of that kind of hate and vitriol and that kind of constant aggression before they think it's better not to be here?
	Well, first of all...
	I agree with you on this.
	You can't separate those two.
	I'll say one thing, though.
	Had Dylan Mulvaney done, and I'm going to say he, and it's not to be antagonistic, it's just I'm respecting the biology of the world.
	We don't need to respect biology.
	It doesn't demand your respect.
	Well, but in terms of my accurately describing of reality, it does.
	Dylan Mulvaney can identify.
	Accurate.
	You can say that.
	I'm accurately defining.
	Yeah, that's it.
	I'd call him an XY as well, if that would resolve it as well.
	Whether or not he's done it to himself, and I think he has.
	And whether or not the industry has exploited him to the fullest extent they thought they could while remaining profitable, I have no doubt they're going to throw him under the bus.
	And if he does something terrible to himself, they'll move on and they'll find another target to exploit.
	Had Dylan just done what he wanted to do on his own without coming out, meeting with the president to try to indoctrinate young kids.
	I don't think there's any indoctrinization going on there at all.
	That's not about indoctrinization.
	You have to look at protecting kids that live in particular areas that face significant violence.
	Well, first of all, one question I'd ask is, who do trans people face violence from, typically?
	What do you mean?
	This is one of the ones...
	Oh, sorry, what did you say?
	You're asking me for statistical evidence?
	Well, no, I would say, where is the source of that violence?
	Because I would imagine it has to do with...
	Not hate crimes off the street, but rather a lifestyle that exposes them to danger.
	If I had to venture a guess as to the statistics of those acts of violence, it would be either within the community or it would be because of the...
	Yeah, I'm not saying that they don't experience any violence within the community.
	I am saying that the idea that there is no violence coming from...
	What type of violence do you mean?
	Do you mean physical or do you mean verbal?
	I mean physical.
	I'm going to put verbal over here because that kind of verbal.
	But again, how much are you supposed to take?
	When we say that it's just about their trans identity, we negate the fact that there's only so much you can, even if it's verbal, even if it's verbal, I don't know what people's breaking point is.
	And I think we can't negate.
	The power of that.
	Now, could you say, well, she shouldn't have been doing this on social media.
	She shouldn't have been exposing this.
	He should not have been making a shtick out of monetizing the most regressive stereotypes of women.
	I mean, I won't say, as a woman, are you not offended?
	Wait a minute, but you're going to say, and I love that angle, because I know lots of women...
	Who hike in heels?
	What's that?
	Who hiking heels?
	It's just not me.
	But I know lots of, everybody's like, well, that's regressive stereotypes.
	I'm like, I'm going to pull up a bunch of my friends that, you know, are similar.
	Like, I like the outfits, and I like the makeup, and I like the, you know, all of those things.
	And whether we're going to start talking about regressive stereotypes, you know what I'm not going to do?
	I'm not going to tell women how to be women.
	I'm not going to tell people how to be people.
	So I'm sure as hell not going to tell Dylan Mulvaney how she needs to act.
	I'm just going to say, Do you authentically?
	Now, do I think that she's an actor?
	Yes.
	And she says she is.
	She'll say, I'm a Broadway kid.
	What happens in 10 years if Dylan says, yeah, I'm back to being a boy.
	Call me he.
	And now there's video evidence of a world calling he a she because at that 10 years of his life, he thought he was a she.
	I mean, how absurd does reality get?
	But here's my question to you.
	What happens?
	What are they so worried about?
	The dismantling of society?
	No, no, no.
	What I'm worried about is people thinking their psychological predilections get to dictate the conduct of other people.
	I had a schizophrenic aunt.
	She would call up and she would say, literally, and she had a way of speaking because she was on medication, but it didn't always work.
	And she's like, I'm having an affair with my doctor, you should know.
	I was like, cousin blank.
	I'm not fighting with her about it only because I'm not trying to trigger someone who will never be able to be convinced that the delusion is not real and it would be triggering not in the current sense but it would be like it would be argumentative for no sake of it.
	If that's the same rationale well, first of all, I'm sorry.
	Again, we go back to the dichotomy we've created and I think it's a broken dichotomy.
	We go back to the roles that we've built and the expectation we've built for men and women, which I think is the foundational problem.
	I think the foundational problem is we say, to be a woman, because a really interesting question is...
	What is a woman?
	Sorry, you opened the door for that joke.
	So nice to see you.
	But look, it's an interesting question if we would have an authentic conversation about it.
	Not a Matt Walsh conversation.
	I think he's pretty sincere.
	I think he's definitely mean.
	Well, I think he's sincere.
	What I mean by authentic conversation, I think he's sincere because I think he's being driven by...
	I'm not going to say it because I think that I don't want to demean anybody's...
	No, take for granted he genuinely...
	He might be religiously motivated.
	He certainly has a belief in God.
	I think he's motivated.
	Oh yeah, froze again!
	Damn you, Justin!
	Damn you!
	Okay, while Joe comes back...
	Let me see here.
	Oh, come on.
	This freeze is in a more unfortunate position than the other freezes.
	Let me tell Joe that I'm surprised that I haven't gotten in trouble with my wife here.
	This is amazing.
	I've been going for nearly two and a half hours?
	Oh, you're back.
	Okay.
	We've been going, Joe, we've been going, it's two hours and 35 minutes.
	I'm like, holy cows.
	My wife hasn't- I haven't been here to talk for a long time, though.
	Well, we haven't even, we've got room for more, so we'll do this again.
	Yeah, I would love to.
	Matt Walsh, here's my, he's relying on a different kind of faith.
	It's still faith.
	It's still the belief in something that isn't factually proven.
	And so I'm going to have immediately have an issue.
	But to sit down and really discuss what a woman is.
	Has so many different layers and so many different nuanced pieces.
	And what is a man, right?
	I mean, both.
	It's such an interesting conversation.
	Not if it's a biological one.
	That's the thing.
	You know what?
	As far as what it means to be stereotypically a man, I don't care.
	What it means to be biologically a man, do not ever tell me to call someone who's a biological man a woman.
	We have to decide.
	Are we using pronouns to dictate biology or are we using pronouns to dictate gender?
	No, first of all, we're not using pronouns to dictate biology.
	We're using biology to dictate pronouns.
	No, no, no.
	But I think the use of a she...
	Look, if you met me and you couldn't quickly ascertain if I was a man or a woman...
	I would walk on eggshells.
	I would walk on eggshells until I knew.
	It would make you crazy.
	That's the interesting question.
	The interesting question and the interesting thing to dive into is, and it makes me crazy too, right?
	Why?
	Why does it make me crazy?
	I'll tell you exactly why it makes us crazy, because we've been conditioned to deal with two different sexes in different ways.
	Why?
	What is the motivation?
	What is the point to it?
	People always ask me, one of my biggest questions on TikTok is, are you a boy or a girl?
	One of the funniest ones is, are you a 14-year-old?
	Boy, are you a 50-year-old woman?
	That was the funniest way it was ever put.
	But my answer is always the same.
	What makes you need to know?
	Because it's not just a genuine, like, it's, it might, they might have been taking a piss, but it's also a genuine, like, I need to know.
	I need to know how to interact with them.
	That's the part I have a problem with.
	Yeah, because I think you're infusing a lot into, I need to know how to interact with them.
	First of all, the only reason I ever care if someone is, if someone's, is the word androgynous?
	Sure.
	Ambiguous.
	I think it's androgynous.
	Androgynous.
	I don't, there's nothing androgynous about you in my view, but whatever.
	The only reason you want to know.
	She's very concerned for that.
	The only reason anybody really cares, in my view, is not so they can determine how to deal with that individual as an abstract entity.
	It's just you don't want to insult someone.
	Typically, when you're not sure...
	And you want to respect their actual biology.
	If it's a pat, okay, I don't want to insult you.
	If you're a man who looks like a woman, some people might find that insulting to be regarded effeminate.
	They might find it insulting.
	That's the only reason.
	Other than that, I want to know if you're a he or she.
	A, not because I want to partake in a psychological delusion.
	And B, not because I want to tell you, oh, you're a woman, so let's talk about fashion.
	I wouldn't talk about fashion with you if I knew you were a woman because I don't buy into the...
	Regressive stereotypes of what it means to celebrate girlhood.
	Can you admit, though, there's still a significant portion of the population that does?
	Jordan Peterson is...
	Jordan Peterson...
	No, I'll stop you.
	I didn't mean to stop you.
	I'll just say I know where you're going.
	You remember what he just said not too long ago?
	I'm saying, I don't know how to interact with you if I don't know.
	Well...
	Well, he's trying to prove a point, but I think the point you're trying to prove is that people believe, nonetheless, that there are historical, time-tested, and true distinctions between men and women.
	Now, in that to say, some people will believe that women should have children young, and the nuclear family is the proper way.
	Women have certain functions, or women have certain responsibilities, given their womanly nature.
	Men have their responsibilities.
	Men are biologically different.
	They're more...
	They are more aggressive.
	They are more, what's the word I'm looking for?
	Ambitious, which is why, you know, you get 50% lawyers that are men and women at the first stages, and then it's not the same thing in partnership.
	And it's not because women are not bumped up.
	And there's so much culture that is informing that.
	You cannot possibly talk about ambition.
	Ambition in the same way.
	And when you start talking about people becoming parents and that dual duty gets put on, usually on the shoulders of women, you can also not take that away as being, because we're talking about a law firm, for example, you cannot completely disregard the idea that when a woman has a kid and a guy has a kid, usually, and again, guys, for the love of God, I would love to say it's 50-50.
	It is not.
	Some people are going to say it's not 50-50 because biologically it can't be 50-50.
	A man cannot breastfeed for the first three months of birth.
	When my mom had me, 1975, she was allowed to take six weeks off.
	That's it.
	That's one of the things that I actually have a problem with in America is the maternity leave in Canada.
	So what I'm saying to you is, at that point, how is it not 50-50?
	The six weeks, cool.
	By the way, my mom never breastfed me because my mom was a smoker.
	We can talk about that childhood trauma later.
	But then why wouldn't it be 50-50 after that?
	Well, we are talking just on averages.
	We're talking as it's never going to be 50-50.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And then the other thing is like...
	It is, it's again the question as to whether or not women do not make their way up the corporate ladder in law firms because there's discrimination or because they don't want that and then they ultimately get judged for that.
	Yeah, I'll give you, and we talk, I talk about this all the time because, you know, if I had, if I was in charge of a law firm and I had a guy and a girl and they're both having a kid, they're both this, let's say, similar earning potential.
	Because we're never talking about somebody who's a superstar and somebody who sucks.
	Nobody's making that bad business decision.
	But if I'm talking about relatively equal earning power and they're showing themselves to be equal, whatever, and they both have a kid, I'm telling you right now, you and I both know they're not taking the bet on the woman.
	Because statistically, when the kid gets sick, she'll stay home.
	When the kid has to go to soccer practice, she'll go home.
	Statistically, that is.
	So if I'm a law firm betting on a partner that's still going to spend 16 hours a day here, I'm not betting on her.
	So what it does is it perpetuates that cycle as well, right?
	Or that cycle perpetuates itself because of some inherent difference on an average scale between men and women.
	I think, and we're starting to see this more and more, because as you make kids, and this is a real problem, as you make kids the defining feature between whether a man or a woman is going to do well in a job, look at how many kids women aren't having.
	Right?
	You're going to make it so that if I have a kid, that I am now a worse bet as an employee?
	No!
	But it might be, if you have a kid, you might not pursue the same things that you would if you didn't have a kid.
	And then the flip side is, someone in the chat on Rumble says, why would I pay someone to not work?
	Well, the flip side is, you want to encourage people to have kids so that you don't have to rely on immigration to fulfill a population's needs.
	Listen, yeah, and, and, and, and, and, what, I mean, if we're not having kids, like, if...
	Again, I don't care so much about immigration, but I do care about the fact that if we're building a society that makes it a detriment to have children, we're weakening a society.
	Even though I'm not a parent, I think being a parent and raising kids is a beautiful, amazing, terrifying occupation that is not to be taken in too lightly.
	If we're not encouraging it, if we're not respecting it to the level that we should be, which, by the way, we never have, and now it's just already coming to fruition, we will face consequence because of that.
	I really do think.
	That would have fit perfectly into another topic which we didn't get to, which was abortion.
	We won't do it.
	Now, Joe, because I don't know how much longer...
	Let's just leave it on that one.
	Anything else?
	We didn't get to the book banning.
	But I just think some of the information I think Canadians are getting is wildly inaccurate.
	There's so many things.
	Tucker Carlson.
	Before we talk about Tucker, if we're going to talk about Tucker and I want to talk about book burning, his laugh scares me.
	Can we all admit that his laugh is terrible?
	I don't judge people based on laugh because someone can look at my laugh.
	I'm going to hire that laugh for the next American Horror Story segment.
	I won't say indoctrinated, but you have certainly been led to believe that Tucker Carlson is evil personified.
	Even if some of the reasons...
	His laugh is creepy.
	To be honest, I don't think he's smart enough to be evil.
	I don't find him particularly intelligent.
	And I don't find him...
	But again, we've had a bit of this conversation.
	I also don't censor.
	I'm a big fan of let...
	People speak.
	And if their ideas are bad, I just think that the other side, whatever the other side is, needs to get louder.
	That's all I'm saying.
	I don't believe in no censorship.
	But here's the problem.
	Tucker has freedom of speech and was wildly popular.
	How about if his ideas are public and do resonate?
	And then the reflexive thing is, well, if I disagree with those ideas, I have to vilify the reason for which they resonate.
	And then I say, well, it's because he's followed by a bunch of racists and not because his ideas actually win out on public discourse.
	Again, it's a matter of the other side to prove that argument.
	For example, I think a lot of the reasons why some ideas really do resonate, and this is a problem that it's very hard to see a way around.
	When you simplify an issue...
	And you ignore nuance.
	And you can turn it into a tagline that people can get behind.
	And this is true.
	You obviously are a historian as well.
	You can get behind it time and time again.
	If you can minimize a thing to a sentence or two.
	To a jab or two.
	Minimize it to a jab or two.
	You can point the finger and say it's them.
	But don't worry.
	I'm going to take care of them.
	Again, insert the them.
	When you do that, and when you can do that, and decide to create an entire energy and identity surrounding that, that's the mass following.
	Now, you know what the remedy to that is?
	Always has been, always should be, but we're watching it disintegrate before our eyes, is education.
	Period.
	I agree with part of that.
	And with everything you were describing, I heard Justin Trudeau.
	And when I listen to Tucker Carlson, I don't see him picking...
	No, I'm hearing Trump, and you're hearing Trudeau, and here we sit.
	And with Tucker, I actually don't view that with Tucker at all.
	Where do you get your sources of information from, just in general?
	This is not an attack.
	You know what?
	I follow, like, so I don't sit down and watch the news.
	I follow every, like I said, Twitter's probably my main starting point because it very quickly, I follow a bunch of news sources.
	I follow a bunch of people.
	I follow people I love and people I just want to throw out the window until they block me.
	But I follow all of those people for that very reason, because I want to make sure that when I hear something, I can go, okay, that's what I'm going to go look to.
	Because I really do think, it's so funny when I think of myself in my younger years, when I sit down with a newspaper and consider myself educated, hilarious, and so narrowly focused, right?
	So I really do like to, I broaden it to the best that I can.
	And that includes...
	Listening to Dean Blondell.
	The funny thing is, I will actively listen to people.
	I've never listened to him, but yes.
	Oddly enough, his podcast, when he's not reducing himself to pithy tweets, he got good information out of Michael Geist about Bill C11 and Bill C18.
	I think people change on Twitter, and I have to probably include myself in that category.
	But yeah, I think you have to force yourself to listen to people.
	Twitter's hard.
	Listen, and I'll be the first one to admit, This is why I post so much video on Twitter.
	I'm not awesome at getting to it in a short little, you know what I mean?
	I find it very hard and it takes a very intelligent and articulate skill set to be able to do that and do it well and not be misinterpreted.
	I'm getting better at it.
	I'm not great at it, which is why I usually post a three-minute rant because I'm a little bit better when it's words, right?
	But I think that...
	Twitter is a place that I found, and I say this all the time, that I found some of the most intelligent, usually very funny, by the way, individuals on any form of social media.
	But I also can see, you know, everybody sees the flaws and algorithms and all of that kind of stuff.
	But look, if we think we're being controlled by algorithms, take away social media.
	Who's controlling us?
	Like, you don't like it.
	We don't have this.
	Prior to this, it was legacy media that was controlling us.
	It's manufactured consent.
	Exactly.
	So for everybody who says the algorithm, this, that, this is controlling us, this is indoctrinating us, I call bullshit because we have never had this much exposure to this many ideas in the history of time.
	And if you choose to shut them off, if you choose to block or to not follow or to not engage, that's on you.
	All of this is here in a real significant...
	Kind of amazing way that was never there before.
	So when people say, well, social media is such a stain on...
	I'm like, it's not.
	Social media has its problems, but it certainly has democratized people's access to information.
	Absolutely.
	Which is exactly why Bill C-11 is basically going to control what you see in Canada.
	Regulating Canadian content is also not new.
	So this is just the next step in regulating Canadian content to protect Canadian culture.
	It's a way, I don't know if you should maybe buy into it, it's a way of retaining sovereignty.
	It's bullshit coming from the guy who said Canadians don't have a culture.
	This is nothing more than...
	First of all, the original CanCon was bullshit to begin with.
	But you were using airwaves and you were using the radio.
	And so, you know, this is nothing but another power grab to suppress the democratization of information because Justin Trudeau doesn't...
	The idea of banning Fox, and I mean, Fox has already been regulated to an entertainment station.
	I don't know why we're giving them any more credit than that.
	They've already said that about themselves in order to, you know, not face lawsuits.
	I don't know why we would outrightly ban it.
	Well, it would just not couple it with packages.
	So you could still go get it.
	But it's the, what is it called?
	Why is Cable anymore?
	I don't know.
	First of all, I figured out that we don't even have, I couldn't watch the hockey game here.
	I couldn't watch Tampa Bay destroy Toronto.
	Listen, we have to give you something.
	You have DeSantis.
	We sent the Leafs down there to say, go lose a couple games because these people are going through it.
	I might get to the game.
	Oh no, the game's tomorrow night.
	I gotta go live tomorrow night.
	But no, I'm sitting there watching you.
	I'm watching a guy livestream commentate the game because he's watching a TV telling us what he's seeing.
	Oh, you're watching the guy watching TV.
	Yeah, we've gone back to radio.
	It's full circle.
	Joe, let's actually end it on a point where we are in agreement that...
	Okay, that the Leafs are gonna win.
	Hell no.
	And you know what?
	I could have been...
	I would be going for any team that's playing the Leafs because everybody hates Toronto, even people who live in Toronto.
	We always lose!
	Well, I'll tell you why I personally hate Toronto as a city.
	It's like New York without the culture, but all the crime.
	And now it's getting even...
	I drove down...
	Was it Eglinton?
	That's the guy from Florida!
	Well, no, I'm not from Florida.
	I had to move here because unfortunately...
	You're there now.
	We've got culture in Montreal, but the government is killing Quebec.
	There's one other thing.
	Oh, the book thing.
	Oh, well, we got 10 minutes.
	We got 10 minutes?
	Okay.
	Quickly on the book thing.
	First of all, banning books is absolutely asinine.
	If a kid wants to get a book, go ahead and ban it.
	They're going to order it on Amazon.
	You're going to make it more popular than it was yesterday.
	Number two.
	And here's the real issue.
	We are teaching, heaven help me, in the age of the internet.
	If a kid wants to find something out, they are going to go on the internet.
	And if you think your grade 7, boy, girl, doesn't matter, isn't finding out God knows what on the internet, you're delusional.
	Unless you're keeping them trapped in your house with no access to the internet whatsoever and they never have any friends where they can look on their phone or their computer.
	We have to, part of the curriculum in Ontario...
	Heaven also help me, is dealing with internet pornography.
	Have you ever tried to broach internet pornography with grades 7 and 8s?
	I'm not even sure that I think that that should be a subject of discussion in school, but...
	Here's the problem.
	They've already searched it.
	But here, I'll just dismantle your position in one sentence.
	It's not a ban to say that it's not going to be on the curriculum.
	That's the issue.
	You know, the anarchist cookbook would not be banned from school because it would not be on the curriculum in school.
	And so there's a wild difference between banning books, which is like...
	Well, I won't release the books that were banned, though.
	I think you're wrong on The Handmaid's Tale.
	I didn't want to look like I was picking on you on Twitter.
	They haven't banned specific books.
	And so when, and I saw one of your videos was, you know, the shelves are empty at the libraries.
	They're not empty because all the books have been banned.
	They're empty because people are trying to make a political point and say, I'm so confused.
	I don't know what to do.
	I'm taking them all off.
	Well, no, but I've heard Ron DeSantis state himself, all of these books, unless an actual agent who is able to go there and go through all of them, somebody who is...
	Qualified, whatever that means, the book expert can go and do, you have to box them up.
	I've heard him say it out of his mouth.
	You box them up.
	You send it to place A. Place A goes through them and sends back the books that are approved and okay to be taught.
	So when I've heard people say, I've emptied my shelves for my classroom, that's what they're doing.
	They're sending their books off to such and such a place in order for them to be correctly assessed.
	I mean, I have a three-minute TikTok.
	I couldn't get at that particular.
	Well, no, but I mean, if that's, and if that's the, if the biggest argument is that as we get this curriculum approved, there might be some confusion, that's far different than mislabeling this law, the banning of the books, the same way they mislabeled the don't say gay, which was never the case anyhow, like we've discussed.
	And by the way, have you seen some of those books?
	Sure, but when...
	We've had this conversation, so I don't have any of those books in hand.
	But when I went through, because I wanted to see what different books have been banned in different counties, because also in Florida, it's subjective, which I thought we were all about objectivity, but nonetheless, it's very subjective.
	So when I go through different schools, I have gotten from different counties in Florida, again, this isn't just DeSantis, V for Vendetta, Harvey Milk, the Indian Removal Act, The bluest eye.
	People really hate Toni Morrison down there.
	Maya Angelou books.
	Like, are you banning The Cage Bird?
	Ruby Bridges, the book, and Frank, has been...
	Well, I'll say, this is the problem.
	First of all, I also don't believe in banning books either, but it's not a ban.
	It's rather determining what goes on the curriculum.
	The issue is the...
	No, I...
	I'm equal.
	They're right down the street in Waterloo.
	They did the exact same thing, I believe, with The Handmaid's Tale.
	And I had the exact same outrage.
	Well, and I say, like, some of them are...
	I mean, it should be...
	I know how it should be and whether or not there's going to be abuse and whatever, and this is the problem with ambiguity.
	But it is a curriculum and it's not a book then, first thing.
	Second thing, I've seen some of those books and some of them are outright...
	Borderline...
	But no, no, those, but those, look, you can take these out.
	Like, so, hey, the VAERS system doesn't work because someone once said they got Hulk, they got big and green and became Hulk from the VAERS.
	So the VAERS system, write it off as a whole.
	It's, you know, there will be bad examples that do not make the rule bad.
	It makes, you know, the implementation problematic.
	But I saw the kids, I saw the books that were on my daughter's best friend's school list at the public school in Montreal.
	One of them was a transgender kid who has a love affair with a bipolar disorder kid.
	The other one was about...
	Is that a graphic novel?
	I don't know what it was.
	I mean, I didn't see it.
	I just, I read the plot line because I had to make sure that I was actually reading.
	But like, here's my question.
	And just straight up off the bat.
	Like, I mean, having a book like, like, let's assume because a lot of people are like, well, that's pornography because there's graphic novels.
	I've seen, you know, the one still of the one graphic novel page.
	But when you're talking about a book like that, I mean, Kids read about all sorts of different sexual scenarios.
	They can read whatever they want on their time.
	That's a parent-kid issue.
	It becomes the indoctrination at school issue.
	But again, just showing different relationships between different people, how is only showing heterosexual relationships, not indoctrinization?
	Well, I'm thinking, so let's just take the Romeo and Juliet example.
	That's a heterosexual relationship.
	Which doesn't end well for those who haven't.
	The question would be...
	I think it shows everybody.
	I can't even make the joke because I know somebody's going to pull it and then like...
	Well, I guess we could leave it at the, you know, it's not a book ban.
	It's determining curriculum.
	What's wrong with having all of a sudden books about transgender kids falling in love with...
	All the books.
	One book.
	How about one book?
	What do you mean?
	How about one book?
	Well, I mean...
	How about just one book of exposure to?
	What if a kid...
	What if?
	What if you're choosing your...
	I don't know.
	The way our English works is you have a list of titles that you choose to do an independent book report on, let's say.
	What if one of the choices was that at grade 12?
	What's the problem?
	But then, see, this is the thing.
	We're taking the end of the spectrum where I think people would be least likely to have the problem.
	It is the question of talking sexuality.
	It's just like, you can take this, a mature kid who willingly decides to do it for their own independent book projects.
	In high school, we're talking, yeah.
	I think you might have, if a student has free choice, my teacher in high school told me to read American Psycho after I wrote a short story that, for some reason, reminded her of American Psycho.
	My parents knew it.
	And I don't, well, I'm not sure that anybody had a problem when I read it.
	I read the book.
	That's a book?
	Oh, that's a book that I could understand.
	By the way, I think it's fascinating, to be honest, that horrific violence is like, cool.
	No big deal.
	I'll give you an example.
	If I'm going to show a movie at school, and the kids joke about this all the time, they'll be like, Joe, it's so funny that you can show us a movie, and it's true.
	Any sort of action, adventure, blowing stuff up, killing a guy with an ice pick to the eye, that's all fine.
	But you better not show a movie where, well, any sort of sexual content.
	It's a very interesting line.
	It is, but I actually thought about this, and I think I understand, other than the standard puritanical reasons, people out there are not going to go out and try to reenact the violence.
	For the sake of their own entertainments.
	They will go out and try to reenact the sexualization for their own entertainments.
	Hold on.
	You think for a heartbeat, I realize whatever school you went to in 1957 where teenagers weren't kissing in the halls, but do you really think that teenagers need encouragement from the movie I'm going to show to go into any sexual activity?
	I don't think they need it, but I certainly think by normalizing them to it, normalizing someone to You know, ridiculous violence in a movie.
	People do not...
	Although there are some who say, like, well, if they see violence in movies, they're going to go up and do something bad to a school.
	I think the idea of...
	A lot of people say that, actually.
	No, for sure, for sure.
	I disagree with them, but yes.
	But I think there is something to say about normalizing certain...
	I was going to use a very judgmental term, but normalizing certain lascivious conduct that people can more easily...
	More easily engage in for their own self-gratification is more likely to do it.
	And that's not to say that I think they should...
	I'm pretty open with my kids.
	I was just going to say, but then you're having a judgment on, right?
	Like, I am sitting here trying not to...
	My job as a teacher is, if my job as a teacher isn't to impose my morals, it's certainly not to impose anybody else's.
	So my job as a teacher is to teach what I have to teach in the sense of, if we're talking about sex ed, what the risks are, what the protections are.
	You know, how to go to a clinic, how to get tested, how to do this, how to do that.
	At what age?
	Well, it depends because I just talked to you about, and this is a great question, but I just said to you, and I've been teaching for a long time, if you think that 12 and 13-year-olds aren't experimenting, your head is in the sand.
	No, no, I don't think that, but I think they are.
	Not you.
	You should not be doing it before then.
	The parents should.
	If the parents don't, it's the parents' failure.
	But at the end of the day, again, if we're talking about the safety and the health and the protection of our kids, if that's our priority...
	Whose priority?
	As a teacher?
	Well, everybody.
	I mean, isn't that our job as a society?
	To protect our kids?
	You know what?
	I'll venture out and say...
	Read six questions.
	I'll tell you those in a second.
	No, but I would venture to say it's not your job as a teacher to look out for the protection of the kids above and beyond quality education at school.
	But that's part of the curriculum.
	I just told you that was in the grade 7 and 8 curriculum is, well, a lot of stuff, including, heaven help me, again, right?
	Internet porn.
	In grade 6, grade 6s are a brilliant age.
	How old are your kids?
	Let me see.
	Not to screw this up.
	They're going to be 13, 9, and 7. Give or take.
	I find grade 6 fascinating because grade 6 kids are brilliant.
	They're way smarter than anybody gives them credit for.
	And those little buggers hear everything everybody ever says.
	And the last time I taught grade 6 was not pre-internet.
	It was really early on in the years.
	So it wasn't as much of a thing.
	Because heaven only knows.
	What questions go on in their heads?
	Because grade sixes, for the most part, also don't have any level of shame or any level of filter about what they can ask and how they can ask it and who they're going to ask in front of, right?
	It just comes out because it's very sort of true.
	So these grade sixes were surrounding or surrounded by older kids and older kids that do projects and have conversations and whatever, and these kids are hearing them, right?
	So I had one day.
	All of them come into my class and say, Joanna, we have questions.
	And I'm like, oh, no.
	I hate it when they say something like that.
	And if DeSantis has his way, your answer should be, take it to your parents, kids.
	I know it's on the curriculum, which might be part of the problem, but not on the curriculum.
	I don't think it's part of the problem because if a parent's not willing to...
	But here's also the reality because a lot of people will be like, oh, my God.
	But in my school, I also made sure...
	And I say this all the time.
	I will answer every question.
	I will also talk to the parents.
	So I do both.
	But I am not running a school where I don't answer the question.
	But I'm also not running a school where I don't make the phone call.
	So those are my two...
	So these kids...
	These are the questions.
	Are you ready?
	What is a roofie?
	Because apparently somebody was talking about Rohypnol at the time, so I had to answer that.
	Second one.
	What's an abortion?
	Okay, I can answer that.
	Okay, pretty objectively answer that.
	The third one, what is female genital mutilation?
	Go ahead, try to answer that.
	That one, I was like...
	That one is pretty easy to answer, but then it depends.
	But I answered it.
	And again, I answered it.
	I make the call.
	See, my answer...
	My answer would have been, that's not an appropriate question for me to ask.
	Go ask your parents.
	The Ruthie, again, I mean, drugs, I think, is it a school's job to talk about drugs at some point?
	Yes, when they're old enough.
	What was the second one?
	Was it abortion?
	Younger, this is the thing.
	We have to start reflecting where they are now and the dangers they can get into now.
	Kids can bring gummy worms that their parent has bought.
	In a weep?
	No!
	What's the word I'm looking for?
	Not projecting, but putting words in your mouth.
	To some extent, they're viewing themselves as a parent number two.
	There are risks that the kids are exposed to, either based on neglectful parenting, bad parenting, or just because they don't want to ask their parents certain questions.
	And teachers, I've never viewed as babysitters, nor have I viewed them as second parents.
	They have a function, and it should be delineated and delimited.
	I don't mind the way DeSantis is doing it, even if there are some ambiguities as to the way that it's being done.
	Like, yeah, what are drugs?
	Ask your parents.
	Depending on the age.
	I mean, unless it's...
	But again...
	What's an abortion?
	That depends.
	Depending on...
	That's a part of...
	That is a part of the curriculum.
	There are a lot of parents who would also not want me to talk about evolution.
	There are some parents who also would not want me to talk about slavery in a certain context.
	There are also parents...
	My problem is...
	I want to, I 100% respect the parent, which is why I'm in constant conversation.
	I mean, that's how I handle that.
	Having said that, kids are going to, the idea that kids aren't going to ask, that they're going to come home and ask you, is just slightly delusional.
	No, but you're right.
	Well, it might be optimistic, and even if it is, still, that's like, well, they might.
	I promise what they're going to do is they're going to go on the computer.
	Yeah, but that's why parents, you know, have to have certain protocols and open discussions.
	And some parents are good and some parents are not so good.
	Anybody's computer.
	What was I just going to say?
	The gummies.
	Oh, God, the gummies.
	They're terrifying.
	I can't.
	Could you imagine?
	I could just eat one.
	One.
	More than one.
	And these kids don't know that you have to stop.
	You know what I'm saying.
	How do we have a conversation like that?
	But again, the issue is, I think that's for parents, that's for family and teachers.
	It's not to say that they're nothing.
	It's just that their role in a child's life, although exquisitely important, has to have boundaries.
	And the push and pull today is teachers not only don't want to have boundaries, they want to have their own exclusions from the parents, which I appreciate that you don't support.
	I have zero desire.
	Actually, not having a relationship with a parent.
	Well, having a relationship with a parent.
	Before I even teach the kid is the best thing I could possibly have.
	And then having a relationship with the kid and then going back to the parent and being on the same page is essential to doing my job properly.
	You know, if I have expectations on a kid, for example, taking all this other stuff out of the mix for a second, if I have expectations on a kid, let's say on a grade 8 kid, for getting something done, yet their parent would rather them go skiing that weekend, and they have no internet, they're not taking their computer.
	I need to understand that parent I'm dealing with so I don't penalize that kid.
	Because that's not within their control, right?
	Sometimes I need to understand what a home environment looks like.
	And just be honest.
	It's cool.
	I'll figure it out.
	But I can't penalize a student for not doing something they need to do when their parent has said, it's not on our agenda today.
	Which happens.
	I can't penalize a student for being late when I have a parent that says, it's not my priority.
	They'll get there when they get there.
	Because kids are...
	Property is a horrible word.
	They don't have full control over their entity.
	So I have to understand part of that or else I'm penalizing them because I'm holding consistent expectation for something that's out of their control.
	Joe?
	Yes.
	Three hours and ten minutes.
	Holy crap.
	Oh my God, it's eight o 'clock.
	It's eight o 'clock.
	I'm just surprised that I have not gotten...
	A dog has undoubtedly...
	I really wanted to get to Proposal 999 about colleges.
	Damn it.
	Well, good.
	Don't, because I have to go Google that before I even know what you're talking about.
	Let's do this again, either here or on your channel.
	There's going to be more to talk about.
	And thank you for coming on.
	It's...
	For anyone on my side, for anyone complaining that you don't like what Joe says, you have to hear what other people say, if only to know what the people you disagree with are saying.
	Absolutely.
	I know where we disagree fundamentally, and I also know that we actually agree on, you know, we share a lot of, but this is how the discourse has to happen and not the demonization.
	So I will continue following you, Joe, but where can people find you?
	On Twitter, and I'm sure most of you will already find me there to yell at me about this conversation.
	Unlearn16 tweet.
	And on TikTok, Unlearn16, and Instagram, Unlearn16.
	And my podcast is called Unlearn16.
	I know it's a lot of repetition.
	Class is in session.
	What is the Unlearn16?
	I absolutely forgot to ask right from the get-go.
	You know what?
	When I was young, which is my first tattoo.
	So I have Unlearn.
	At 33, right down my ribcage.
	When I was in my early 30s, there was this very Socratic idea, I really like Socrates, I really like philosophy, about in order to learn, you need to first unlearn the prejudice, the stereotypes, the stuff that's been shoved in your head without your consent.
	You need to pull it out, tear it down, and then make space for new learning.
	The 16 is just my sport number.
	Okay.
	Fantastic.
	Joe, you stick around.
	We'll say our proper goodbyes.
	Everyone in the chat, locals, there will be no...
	I'll do something tomorrow.
	It's been...
	I can't believe how long it's been.
	Joe, stick around.
	We'll say our proper goodbyes.
	Everyone out there, thank you for being here.
	And I will see all of you tomorrow night.
	Barnes, Viva Barnes, 6 o 'clock.
	Enjoy the rest of the night, peeps.

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