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Dec. 6, 2022 - Viva & Barnes

01:55:22

Sidebar with Carl Benjamin of "Lotus Eaters" - Viva Frei Live

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	That's an insane thing.
	No, no shot.
	Give me the hammer and the spikes.
	I'm putting this up there.
	If someone can do it, it's Ethan.
	He'll find a way.
	I'll do it again.
	I liked it the first time and I'll do it again, Nick.
	I'm getting on a call with all my Jewish brothers and sisters.
	There's 30 minutes left.
	I really want to make Dan proud.
	You know what I'm planning this Christmas?
	A mock execution of Jesus Christ.
	Dedicated to Nick Fuentes.
	Doing my part.
	So you could sit in your parents' basement and cry about it.
	Yeah.
	And I'd do it again.
	Give me the spear.
	Uh-oh.
	I'll do it again.
	You're gonna piss off the weird hysterical nerds, dude.
	Good.
	If Jesus was here on a cross, I'd spear him!
	No.
	Alrighty.
	That'd be funny if you got banned for that.
	That's an insane thing.
	No, no shot.
	Give me the hammer and the spike!
	Okay, we've seen enough of that.
	I didn't realize it started halfway through.
	Yeah, barf emojis.
	Every stream now is starting off with a gag reflex.
	At least we have a bunch of options in the gag vomitus bag, so to speak.
	Trudeau, Press Secretary Jean-Pierre, Biden, Kamala, Chrystia Freeland.
	Now we're adding in Ethan Klein.
	Because, you know, the best way to respond to what people are referring to as anti-Semitic vitriolic rhetoric is to come up with stuff like that because that's quite clearly absolutely beyond reproach.
	You can't get angry at that because they're joking.
	But when Kanye comes out and either sincerely as a troll or as a symptom of a mental breakdown comes out and says things which are objectively offensive.
	There, it's outrage, but when it's jokes, it's not.
	And the irony about that edginess, which we've seen time and time again from Ethan Klein, it's not edgy, and it's not even new.
	Sarah Silverman had a bit.
	I'm going to get in trouble, I think, for this, but we'll see.
	Everybody blames the Jews for killing Christ, and then the Jews try to pass it off on the Romans.
	You know, I'm one of the few people that believes it was the blacks.
	LAUGHTER I don't care.
	Good.
	I hope the Jews did kill Christ.
	I'd do it again.
	I'd fucking do it again in a second.
	I hear his Birkenstocks clacking this way.
	Now, I'll say this.
	I don't think anybody should get cancelled for that.
	Sarah Silverman's delivery is good.
	Her content, her substance, has been good in some respects.
	I don't find that funny.
	I don't find it outrageous to the point where people should be cancelled.
	What gets me in all of this, and we're going to get into it today, because we have Carl Benjamin on.
	This is like, I say it's, again, it's surreal because it's just such an evolution of the existence on the interwebs.
	I now get to interview a man whose legal drama I was covering three years ago, pre-COVID.
	I don't have any problem with edgy, offensive, outrageous, over-the-top humor.
	I don't find those particular bits funny.
	The context makes it somewhat less funny, more antagonistic.
	It's the hypocrisy, or as some are going to call it, the hierarchy of the jokes.
	Feigning outrage, but when they do it, it's a joke.
	When their enemies do it, it's unforgivable, cancel, destruction, deplatformed, unperson.
	When they do it, it's a joke.
	It's satire.
	Okay.
	Barnes and Carl are in the backdrop, people.
	You may have noticed, yet again, one of the symptoms or signs of evolution on the interwebs, there was a thing that said this stream contains a paid promotion, and it does, people.
	And today, it'll be different tomorrow, but today, it is the air filtration system in Viral Cleanse Pure.
	Christmas is around the corner, which means most people are going to have family members.
	Visiting them, which means that they're going to have dirty, filthy, germ-infested children running around the house, sneezing their boogers, touching all the crap.
	For those who know that you need a high-quality air filtration system, it doesn't require much selling.
	You just have to make sure you get the good one.
	This is the good one.
	For those who don't know that you need one, there could be nothing more important than the air that you're breathing.
	Germ-free, volatile, organic, compound-free.
	EnviroCleanse.
	We had a filter back in Canada.
	It was a piece of rubbish and it wasn't a cheap piece of rubbish.
	EnviroCleanse filter is what you see here.
	A big fat HEPA filter in the front.
	A patented technology in the filtration system which has minerals which neutralize VOCs, volatile organic compounds.
	Odors, chemical smells, bacteria, germs to smaller than the ronavirus.
	Not all home purifiers are made the same.
	EnviroCleanse is used by the military.
	That may impress some of you.
	That may not impress some of you.
	Doesn't matter.
	I'll take for granted.
	If the military uses it on submarines, it's good.
	It's in 300,000 schools across the United States.
	Holiday season is coming up.
	Keep those filthy germ bag children, you know.
	If you have children, you get used to it.
	We're going to talk about that today as well.
	But it will keep your family safer.
	Very quiet.
	Beautiful, sleek, matrix-looking thing.
	ekpeer.com.
	EnviroCleanse.
	ekpeer.com.
	Promo code RUMBLE.
	10% off.
	Free air quality control.
	And I thank the sponsor for having the audacity of sponsoring the hinged-finged minority who interview people with unacceptable views.
	And as far as the hierarchy goes of people with unacceptable views goes, Carl Benjamin is high on that list.
	And I swear to you, I've dug into his past.
	I've known of Carl for years.
	At first, I knew what I thought of him based on reputation, based on hyperbole.
	I can't think of anything that can possibly justify the reputation that some people have given to Carl Benjamin.
	It's gonna be fantastic.
	Barnes is in the back.
	Okay, so we're gonna bring in...
	I'll bring in Barnes first.
	Then I'm gonna bring in Carl.
	See where he goes in this?
	Nope.
	Carl does not go on the bottom.
	I go on the bottom so that when I bring in chats, get a real job.
	Community trust, this is my real job.
	I was fishing this morning for an hour, listening to a Carl Benjamin interview, caught five small bass, and I'm like, this is a fortunate existence to have this.
	I get to learn as a job, and then I get to interview people about whom I have learned as a job.
	Carl, I was...
	For the two minutes that we saw each other before, I said, it feels like we know each other already.
	I've been following Carl for five years now.
	Carl, just in case anybody doesn't know who you are out there, 30,000-foot overview before we really get into it.
	My name's Carl Benjamin.
	I became famous because of Gamergate, and I now run a website called Lotuses.com, and on YouTube and Rumble, you can find us at the podcast of the Lotus Eaters.
	And that is Lotus Eaters, people.
	It's in the pinned comment, whatever.
	I mean, we're going to get to it, but what does Lotus Eaters even mean as a concept?
	I know I should know it, but I don't.
	No, no.
	Honestly, one of the main problems with the internet these days is actually if you're going to start a business, well, good luck finding something that isn't taken, right?
	The internet's been around for a good couple of decades now.
	Billions of people on it.
	And so good luck finding a brand that you can make your own that's not already sort of something that's imprinted in people's consciousness.
	And I was studying a bunch of things, and one of them was the Odyssey.
	And I actually quite liked the concept of the Island of the Lotus Seaters because everyone outside the sort of extra canonical texts of the Odyssey, oh, that means Island of Drug Addicts.
	But actually, if you read what it says in the Odyssey, there's no mention of like, you know, drugs or...
	Like, them being...
	In any way, insensible.
	All it is, is the island of the Lotus Eaters is the first island that they come to on the journey back from Troy.
	And they're the only island that they're not trying to kill them.
	And so they give them the lotus flower to eat.
	And then they're like, you know what?
	I think I'd just rather stay here than carry on.
	Because carrying on seems crazy.
	Why would I do that?
	And Odysseus drags the men back to the ships and then sails on back to Ithaca.
	And everyone except Odysseus dies on this journey.
	And so it felt like just a reasonable Metaphor for what's happening at the moment.
	Like, there's currently a global elite that's dragging us back to the ships, and they're like, no, we're going to this destination.
	It's like, yeah, but I've got a funny feeling we're all going to die on the way, and I actually would just rather stay where I am right now, actually.
	I don't really want to go with you, and we don't seem to have that choice.
	So that's the inspiration for it.
	Now, I knew you as, before Carl Benjamin, I didn't even know Carl Benjamin existed.
	I knew you as Sargon of Akkad.
	From various cultural commentary and the rest, which was fantastic.
	Was Gamergate what inspired you to get into the space of making commentary?
	No.
	And why Sargon of Akkad?
	Okay, so I'm old, as you can see by the white beard.
	And we're the sort of same generation, in fact, aren't we?
	And it was just a common thing that the internet...
	Back in the day, it was kind of an unknown frontier, and it wasn't really safe.
	So you didn't put your real name on the internet.
	And so this was, you know, when I was like in my 20s, it was just a gamer tag that me and a friend of mine used to use Gilgamesh.
	I used Saga Rakan.
	It was, you know, just because I was a fan of the historical time period.
	And I didn't...
	Think anything was going to come of me starting a YouTube channel.
	And so I'd started it in like 2010, but I didn't upload anything for like three years.
	So I wasn't, you know, I didn't even know there was, you know, a space on YouTube to be a commentator.
	I had no desire to be one.
	So it was just something I could use to subscribe to channels.
	And then in 2013, I noticed that, well, insane feminist activists were invading the gaming space in which I operated.
	And I was just kind of frustrated by it because I thought their arguments were...
	Well, illiberal.
	And so I started making videos just being like, look, these are things that are wrong.
	And about, I don't know, I had something like 20,000 subscribers.
	And then about six months in, Gamergate started.
	And I could see that Gamergate was a reaction that I was trying to talk about.
	That it was a bunch of blue-haired feminists who are like, well, men are evil.
	Video gaming is evil.
	And anyone who takes in it is obviously a misogynist.
	And I was like, okay.
	I mean, it feels quaint now to say it.
	Now that everything that we know about...
	Where this ideology has come from, what its intentions are, and what its end-state goal is.
	It just, at the time, and I do look back and go, we were naive.
	At the time, I just thought they just didn't really understand what they were talking about.
	And so I was trying to explain from the liberal perspective what I saw the world to be.
	And then my challenge kept growing from there, basically.
	That's where I learned that you were apparently an alt-right, I don't know if they used the term incel at the time, but definitely misogynist.
	And we'll get into the Gamergate thing in a second, but we've got to back up a little more.
	How old are you?
	I'm 43. Do you give your birth date out?
	Well, it's 1979.
	Okay, I'm just wondering if I'm, I'm May 1979, and am I older than you?
	I'm younger than you, yeah.
	Yes.
	But I've got a more white beard than you.
	I've got a circle over there.
	Carl, I always like to delve into infancy childhood parents because I think it does help understand how a person became who they are today, especially in demeanor and philosophy.
	How many siblings were you from?
	What did your parents do?
	What was your childhood like?
	My dad was in the RAF before I was born.
	We grew up, therefore, moving around on different military bases.
	I spent eight years in total living in Germany on JHQ, which is the joint headquarters at Rheindalen, Mönchengladbach.
	Between, I think, about 3 and 6 and 13 and 18, or 13 and sort of 16, 17, roughly.
	About that time.
	My memory's getting a bit hazy because it was a long time ago now.
	And so they were my sort of really formative years.
	Just a standard family, two parents, me and my younger sister, who is wonderful, obviously.
	My home life was great.
	My parents were broadly conservative, but not very ideological, thankfully.
	And so they were not really interested in politics.
	But because we grew up in a military family, and also a lot of it outside of the United Kingdom, you become...
	I suppose what you'd say is more patriotic and more attuned to what is your own culture in comparison to what is the foreign culture you're constantly in contact with.
	So it became, when I moved back to the United Kingdom, obviously I didn't think anything of it because I was in like 17, 18. But as I grew older, it became apparent that there is something wrong with the culture in the United Kingdom at the moment.
	It's kind of poisoned, I would say, and it's not right.
	You didn't get this in the sort of 90s and early 2000s, in the military culture at least.
	I mean, you get it now because obviously it's everywhere.
	But it was just kind of the sort of stock patriotic environment that you would be in.
	We had British flags around because we were living on a base in Germany.
	And whenever you went into the German community, you got a very...
	It's a very sharp distinction between what was the British base and the German community outside of it, because we were living on a colony, because Germany had lost a war.
	And so you got a very clean and clear sense of what was foreign and what was not foreign.
	And so coming back to the United Kingdom in the late 90s, early 2000s, the Labour government took over, and they started to try and essentially...
	Erode the concept of Britishness and erode the sort of concept of the distinction and particularness of our country as compared to Europe and the rest of the world more widely.
	And I suppose that's why I occupy the kind of political space that I occupy now, because I can say from firsthand experience, we are different to them and them being the Germans or any other foreigner.
	And any country has a different culture.
	Do you think of Gamergate never happens and all the things related to it in the sense of this attempt at cultural monopolization by the woke elite of every single instrument of cultural transmission that exists?
	They weren't just satisfied with media control and Hollywood control.
	They had to invade comics.
	They had to invade Star Trek.
	They had to invade Star Wars.
	They had to invade Marvel.
	They had to invade even video games.
	Do you think if that had never happened, you would have gone on your political path, or do you think you may have never gone on that political path?
	I think that there's probably not a future in which the woke left can operate and not try to colonize every space in which they see.
	Life, energy, and problems, right?
	Things that are problematic.
	So I can't imagine that we can – I can't really envisage a future where there are a bunch of woke feminists colonizing comic books and saying, well, actually, we won't worry about gaming.
	We won't worry about films.
	I think they're compelled to colonize everything they can and try and pacify the world for social justice.
	But I think I probably wouldn't have been – let's assume, though, that they hadn't.
	I find it hard to believe that I would have just continued on with my life without somehow coming into contact with this extreme left-wing philosophy because it's just so aggressive.
	It wants to monopolize every space and so it's hard to believe I could have just continued on with my life without experiencing it and I suspect that it was I mean, I find this sort of social justice ideology so antithetical to my own values that I would have felt morally compelled to push back against it.
	So I imagine I would have ended up on this path somehow, to be honest.
	Carl, I got to do this.
	I hope you don't find this too uncomfortable.
	Have you read your Wikipedia page recently?
	I mean, you have to...
	This is...
	When you say that you don't think they wouldn't have infiltrated something you did end up loving to get you politicized.
	This is...
	It wasn't like this when I initially read it years ago, but this is how people who don't understand how infiltrated Wikipedia has become would understand you.
	Carl Benjamin, also known by his online student Sarga Devakad, is a British far-right, anti-feminist YouTuber and political commentator.
	A former member of the Euroskeptic right-wing UK Independence Party, he was one of its unsuccessful candidates, yada yada yada.
	During the Gamergate harassment campaign...
	Benjamin promoted the conspiracy theory that feminists were infiltrating video game research groups to influence game development.
	Since Gamergate, he is focused on promoting Brexit, criticizing feminism, Islam, identity politics, as if that makes you far right.
	Sorry, just to interrupt.
	I actually agree with all of that.
	Well, I say it's the far right.
	Okay, you know, I guess it's the far right.
	It's hilarious.
	But Robert and I, with other guests, have talked about Gamergate, but for those who may not know your personal experience, what was your personal experience with Gamergate, how you got sucked into it and ended up obviously getting demonized by your involvement with it?
	Yeah, well, before I answer that very quickly, I think it's important to note that terms like left-wing, center, and far-right are relative political positions, right?
	And so if you are a left-wing extremist who thinks that the entire world around us is...
	Irredeemably corrupted with white supremacy and patriarchy and is a colonialist, oppressive regime that is holding various minority groups down, then yes, you will see a sort of more conservative perspective as being, quote, far right.
	But that's only because of your particular distance to the left from where a reasonable people, group of people cluster.
	So I actually have stopped taking exception to the term far right because if they meant Nazi...
	They would simply say Nazi, right?
	And also, I mean, I consider fascism and Nazism an extension of socialism, and I'm very much against socialism.
	So if they meant Nazi, they would say Nazi.
	And so when they say far right, I just think, right, okay, you're a really left-wing person.
	Got it.
	You know, I understand.
	And the rest of it, honestly, was fairly accurate.
	I do object to all of those things, actually, in pretty much the terms that they say.
	And so, you know, I don't see them as being bad things, you know?
	So they weren't using any derogatory labels there, really.
	The only thing that one could really take exception with, I think, is far right.
	But again, I don't even take exception to it these days.
	Well, in defense of me, harassment campaign implies something that didn't happen.
	Conspiracy theories that feminists were infiltrating, which is why you'll explain what actually happened, because they refer to it as a conspiracy theory.
	Others might just understand that that's actually what happened.
	Yeah, it was a conspiracy fact, actually.
	It was a theory, don't get me wrong, because I was just reading their research papers, and I can't...
	You have to figure me, because this is like 2014, so it's quite a long time ago.
	I can't remember the names of the academic feminists involved, but there's...
	People gravitate to the subjects in which they're interested.
	And so you get a very sort of fairly narrow slice of academic feminists out of all of them that essentially agree on...
	Basically, the fundamental premises of what academic feminism is.
	And you get a slice of them that are interested in, oh, video games.
	And you get a slice of them that are interested in comic books.
	You get a slice of them that are interested in yada yada yada.
	One great YouTuber I'd recommend is The Fourth Age, who goes into the academic feminism that's infiltrating the comic book industry.
	It's not my speciality, but he's fantastic, and I love all of his videos.
	So I was concerned about what was happening in video games at the time.
	And so I just went and read their papers because, of course, these things being so remote and cloistered and away from the mainstream, at least when they were writing them, they're just online.
	You could just find them.
	It actually wasn't hard to get them at all.
	And so I got them, read through them.
	We made a bunch of videos explaining, look, they're planning to essentially launch some kind of feminist jihad against the video game industry.
	And lo and behold, we went through a feminist jihad in the video game industry in about 2012.
	And then over about 2014, it became so insufferable.
	I think GamingGate at the peak probably had about 50,000 people who were just like, look, we are just sick of your moralizing.
	You know, let us play our video games in peace and leave us alone.
	um and then when for example gaming gate was actually a majority sort of centrist left-wing uh phenomenon actually you know there were like you know you know right-wing people involved but when when the large body of people just basically did a you know political compass test and they were all compiled it was very much uh liberal left um because there were people who just didn't agree with the identity politics and just wanted to be left alone really um so yeah So, you know, they say conspiracy theory.
	Is that even a bad term anymore?
	I'm sorry.
	Who isn't a conspiracy theorist these days?
	And how many conspiracy theories have actually turned out to be false?
	Just out of interest.
	I don't take exception to any of it anymore.
	And I mean, I got into Gamergate when studying to bet on the 2016 election there in the UK, where you can bet whatever you want on a presidential election.
	You could in America, which I still find wacky.
	But I was noticing this whole new group of young, populist-inclined, independently-oriented people on the right, the Donald Reddit that became the Donald Wynn and all that, the Salty Cracker fan base, the meme makers that were all over the place that were exploding in something I'd never seen.
	I mean, I'd been around politics for forever, never seen anything like it.
	I was like, where do these kids come from?
	And I started digging in, and the most common origin story was Gamergate.
	That, like, they were just kids hanging out.
	A lot of them, you know, used to be lefties or just not care about politics.
	Just chilling.
	And all of a sudden they're getting harassed by feminazis wanting to take over their culture and corrupt media.
	You know, gaming media.
	I mean, it was called Gamergate because of gaming media people having undisclosed relations and conflicts of interest with gamers they were promoting, with game makers they were promoting, who were promoting crap games, along with a political ideological motivation as part of it.
	And so it's fascinating watching that whole thing evolve and kind of explode.
	It was a counter-revolution.
	It would have been in the interest of the wokesters.
	To stay away from the comic book world, the Marvel world, the aspects of Hollywood and sci-fi and fantasy, stay away from it in certain parts of literature, stay away from the video gaming place.
	Because there they ended up rousing a quiet lion that was otherwise kind of asleep at the wheel of the culture wars taking place.
	The other thing that's influenced this is so many of the kids, so many people 30 and under.
	Who have been exposed to this at every level.
	Exposed to it on social media.
	Exposed to it in their schools.
	All the way down to kindergarten, basically, these days.
	But they were seeing it before a lot of us were seeing it.
	The idea just 10 years ago that Barack Obama's positions would now fit Wikipedia's definition of right-wing.
	In other words, his opposition to gay marriage.
	I mean, a range of things that were his position in 2008, not that long ago, now Wikipedia'd say, this is far right in lunacy.
	I mean, just to have that point home, actually.
	I really can't tell much difference between Donald Trump's positions and Bill Clinton's positions, actually.
	Donald Trump really is just a 90s Democrat.
	It's just the culture shifted so far to the left.
	That became a far-right position.
	And okay, fine.
	The thing that was interesting about Gamergate that hadn't happened before, there had been resistance to social justice before, but it was always quite small and not tepid, but insecure in its own foundations.
	But interestingly, Gamergate went on for about a year, and that is a really long time for quite a cohesive group of people who didn't otherwise have any particular connection to one another to put up an active resistance.
	And so I think this is the reason that Gamergate has become kind of seared in the minds of journalists.
	And not just video game journalists.
	You'll see the New York Times and the Washington Post and things like that talking about Gamergate as if it's some perennial boogeyman.
	Because even though Gamergate didn't win, I think they...
	And it can, I think it really, it was kind of like their Vietnam, to be honest, I think.
	I actually think they really, they took it very, very badly, even though Gaming Gate didn't win that one, you know?
	So, yeah, no, it was good to see.
	And there were a lot of interesting people who came out of it.
	I mean, you know, a bunch of people sort of crashed and burned, but like, you know.
	It's the internet.
	There's a lot of energy.
	You don't know what's going on.
	You know, this is all new territory, new experiences.
	So, you know, you can hardly blame people for not...
	And, you know, another thing as well, this is all very organic.
	Like no one, no one was like trained or had any kind of preparation.
	No one went to these debate clubs.
	They're not from impressive universities.
	These are all just regular people.
	We're not taking it, and we know the kind of people you are.
	You're vicious vipers, and we're not having any of it.
	So the fact that people held on for at least a year, I think, is very impressive, actually.
	Yeah, and the other thing is, before my stepson, I was a skeptic of games in general.
	I thought that was something dropouts and potheads play.
	That was kind of my stereotype of it.
	I mean, I liked video games as a kid, like the arcade games as a kid, but in limited dosage.
	I thought otherwise.
	But my stepson loved it.
	I mean, just absolutely was really found a home there and the rest.
	So I did more research.
	And what you find is that a lot of people that play those kind of games actually have above average mental acuity, develop a wide range of social skills.
	And what was most fascinating to me was he was finding a community.
	I don't know if he was already a fan, so I don't know if he's teaching his kids to love as well.
	And that was the other thing that was so offensive about what they were trying to do.
	They were trying to ruin something that was a good space for young men, especially, who are being widely attacked or being disconnected economically in the Western world, their economic opportunities being stripped, their marital paths being...
	rerouted and diverted drugs being in just dumped in their communities and mass particularly in the working class regions that used to have industrial employment their neighborhoods collapsing their families falling apart in terms of their mother and their father and here is a space where they could have fun they could have meaning they could develop skills they could find community and now it's being attacked by a bunch of wokesters who know nothing about it whatsoever What was your original...
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, well, the thing is, I've actually, as I've grown older and become a father myself, I do actually come in a sort of concordance with your initial point there.
	It is a waste of time to play video games, right?
	You're not getting anything productive done.
	And so I view video games these days as...
	Something you do after you've done your work.
	You go, you work hard, and then in the evening after you've had a long, hard day of work, play a video game for an hour or two, that's fine.
	But there is also the flip side to this, which is people who essentially pathologically play video games and spend all of their time on video games and actually don't get out of the house, actually aren't getting sunlight, aren't getting social interaction, aren't learning new skills, aren't reading books.
	I mean, like anything taken to excess, it becomes bad for you.
	So everything within moderation, but there's nothing wrong with video games in and of themselves.
	It's really about, again, with most things, it's about how you interface with them.
	So just to make sure that I don't come across as being excessively permissive there, because I'm actually a total tyrant with my own kids.
	My son gets to play video games for a couple of hours on the weekend, assuming he's good all the way through the week, which makes me more tyrannical than the Chinese government, actually.
	But I feel like I should be.
	I say nothing brings out the hypocrite in adult becoming a parent for anybody who doesn't yet know.
	I'll break the rules all day long, but the second my kid swears or puts their feet on the table or, you know, is unclean, I leave drawers open all the time.
	Kids do it, parents get mad.
	We're going to move over to Rumble right now because I got the question about your first...
	You got cancelled to some extent before it was cool to get cancelled.
	Everybody?
	You're the reason locals exist.
	It's amazing.
	So we're going to move over to Rumble now exclusively, so I'm just going to end on YouTube.
	See you all over there.
	Actually, right after I just bring up this super chat that just came in on the bottom here.
	Sargon, your Kido Sharia has no hold on us here in the CCP Canadian province of Putin.
	The corpse died of mankind can sit on the golden toilet all at once.
	All right.
	All I'm saying is you can't deny the results, right?
	You know, I've lost a lot of weight and I feel really great.
	So I'm just saying it worked for me.
	We are ending on YouTube.
	Going to Rumble.
	3, 2, 1. See you all there now.
	All right, Carl.
	So you got canceled or deplatformed really before...
	I can't put the timing on it.
	I think, Robert, it was before Alex Jones was deplatformed.
	It was after Alex Jones, I believe.
	No, it was before.
	Was it?
	I mean, let's see.
	Jones was fully deplatformed in 2018, August of 2018.
	Yeah, I was 2017.
	Yeah, you're right.
	You were before.
	Yeah, you were before Jones.
	That's right.
	Because it's an amazing thing where...
	You were booted from Twitter, and there's other platforms.
	You were booted from Twitter and then booted from Patreon, as far as I can recall.
	And people didn't know what happened back then.
	You disappeared, and it allows everybody to continue besmirching you, defaming your good name, and calling you whatever they want in your absence.
	I think I know what you did.
	What did you do to get booted from Twitter before it was the rage to boot people from Twitter?
	Right.
	So in 2017...
	A movement arose in 2016, I think it was.
	A movement arose called the Alt-Right.
	This is an openly, avowedly white nationalist movement that was essentially the counterpoint of social justice.
	Believed in white identity politics as opposed to social justice's anti-white identity politics.
	And it wanted to engage with social justice on its own terms.
	Obviously, this is not something that I've ever done.
	I've never supported the alt-right.
	I've never been a white identitarian.
	I can't imagine that I ever will be.
	And so these people saw me as a kind of gateway.
	into a large audience that they were hoping they could rally to their cause.
	And so they began a harassment campaign against me, which got quite bad.
	I mean, my wife essentially had to leave the internet because these people would go and harass her.
	And I was under quite a lot of stress.
	They were attacking me in every way they could.
	And so I would just insult them back in ways I assumed they wouldn't like.
	And I decided to call them the K-word on Twitter one day.
	And Vijaya Gad was like, no, no, no, you can't insult the Nazis like that.
	And that's how I got banned from Twitter.
	So you called a Nazi a kike.
	For those who don't know, kike is the bad word for Jew.
	Apparently the origin might be, it means German for Kike Circle, because that's, I don't know.
	Oh, I don't know, yeah.
	Well, that's one of the urban legends, like WAP for Italians stood for without papers.
	That doesn't seem like the end of the world.
	So you obviously sarcastically ironically called a group that you identified as alt-right actual supporting Nazi ideology type thing.
	Because that would be the utmost of the absolute greatest insult to...
	Well, that's the best I could think of anyway.
	It's like the Dave Chappelle routine, right?
	Where Dave Chappelle is the blind black Klansman.
	And then he discovers belated that he's black.
	And so he hates himself because he has to get divorced from...
	Because that makes him, you know, something...
	Which was also the reason I got banned from Patreon, because I also called them the N-word.
	So, you know, Storm Gryphon Fuhrer 1488.
	I think if I apologize to you, maybe I'll get my Patreon back.
	Who knows?
	Jack Conte took it badly.
	Again, weird that they were in defense of the Nazis, but I mean, you know...
	Maybe they're fans of Kanye West or something.
	But on what platform did you use the N-word?
	Was it verbally or was it in writing?
	Because that'll answer the hard R versus the soft R. It was verbally, and it was on someone's YouTube channel, but not my own.
	So you got booted from Patreon for using the N-word on someone else's YouTube video channel.
	Yes, when insulting some Nazis who were kind of stalking me on the internet.
	And the only reason that Patreon found out about this is because those very Nazis sent the clip to Jack Conte at Patreon.
	So it was mildly ironic.
	But to be honest with you, it seems like fun now.
	It seems like, wow, what a crazy year that was.
	Because it wasn't anything terrible.
	Nothing destroyed me or anything.
	So I was like, okay, well, that's not the end of the world.
	Now that I'm back on Twitter because of the God Emperor Elon, it's been an interesting sort of time in the wilderness where I've learned a lot and I've changed a lot.
	And so it's nice to be able to come back to Twitter with a sort of fresh perspective on how things should be done.
	We have a question from our locals live chat, which is, are you familiar with the treatment of Harold Wilson in the UK and whether that's analogous to Trump's treatment?
	The only time I got clued into that is I was on a tour in the UK.
	I was over there 2018, waiting on the Senate bets to pay off.
	The House bets lost, but the Senate bets cashed.
	But I was waiting for the Senate to be certified.
	In a tour, they took me through.
	I guess Harold Wilson apparently was telling people that there was UFOs and he had all this inside information and that he was blacklisted out of being the premier.
	I was like, I never heard of this.
	I heard it from this random London tour guide.
	I don't know if you've ever heard anything about that.
	I've never even heard of Harold Wilson.
	Ah, yeah.
	He was the Carter-era UK Prime Minister.
	Oh, right.
	Oh, right.
	No, I'm afraid I can't tell you anything about it.
	I only know his name now.
	About that whole white nationalist, alt-right, you know, kooky community that grew up and people who got attached to them.
	But, like, I mean, we currently see, I mean, why Kanye decided to, you know, attach to him, I have no idea.
	But, like, what's interesting about them is that they are so much like the race grift, which is probably more common in America than it is in the UK, in the sense that, you know, like the Klan that fell apart in the 1920s, at its peak in 1924, 1925, it did because they were grifters.
	Fraudsters, criminals, rapists.
	Yeah, they were Democrats, I know.
	Yeah, exactly.
	That's exactly right.
	And look at the current crowd, you know, the Fuentes group.
	The other thing is they brigade people's chats.
	They harass people all the time.
	They stalk people all the time.
	They do really nasty interpersonal things.
	They try to get people canceled while complaining about cancel culture repeatedly, which you were the personal witness of.
	And I think some of it is rooted...
	In terms of its audience, are young men that are just disconnected and have been so widely and broadly criticized that they're flocking to ideas that are like sort of the neo-Nazi movement after the fall of Eastern Germany and the Soviet Union for a period of time.
	You said disconnected people not knowing what to believe.
	A lot of criticism who got attracted to some dangerous ideas for a while.
	Like aspects of hooliganism.
	Yeah, I think it was kind of inevitable, really.
	I mean, if the left were going to be like, right, listen, white people are evil, and it's because they are white that they're evil.
	Well, there are going to be some people who go, well, hang on, I'm white and I'm not evil.
	And I'm happy to accept your framing on the question.
	I just wish to argue back on the side of the people that you're attacking.
	So I'm not surprised that these people...
	I personally just think race is not really a political category.
	You could go nationality, that's fine, which is literally a political category.
	But I think that race is far too abstract to have as a political term.
	For example, a white advocacy movement would...
	Surely be unable to distinguish who the good guys were in World War II, which is presumably why Kanye West is currently out here saying that he loves Hitler.
	Whereas I'm, as an Englishman who grew up in a forces family, occupying Germany because of the war, obviously we don't love Hitler in England.
	And so, you know, but the Germans and the English are obviously as wise as white can be.
	So it's not...
	It feels very much like a colonial pathology to have these kind of racial advocacy movements.
	And there's just something about them that I think is kind of grim because of the, again, the abstract nature of them and the exclusive nature of them.
	It's not really very useful because really what you want is political incorporation.
	And so I prefer party politics as in people can choose their own particular party affiliation and leave that as them when they will, as opposed to essentially categorizing people and then giving them no choice.
	I just think that's unfair.
	So I've never been a white nationalist.
	I can't ever see that I will be.
	The thing that I've noticed is that...
	When you tell people they're evil, fundamentally evil, and they say that I'm not, but if you're going to treat me like that anyhow, it's like Megamind.
	If you're going to make me into the villain, well, I may as well just become the villain anyhow.
	If you're going to deplatform me for no good reason, if you're going to villainize me, excommunicate, unpersonate, well, then I'll just become the bad person anyhow.
	And it's a risky thing to say, but it's an evolution that I've noticed.
	I have seen now how...
	So-called extremists and actual extremists can actually be cultivated and not born, which is where I see some potential explanation as to how people are being driven to these extreme ideologies, where others, I wouldn't be driven to hurt somebody.
	I'll stay in the middle and say, look, I'll take the abuse, but I won't be driven that far.
	But other people are not of that persuasion.
	But before we move on, for one thing.
	You know, Kanye's walking around saying, I love Hitler now.
	Back in the olden day, the internet used to be for edgy humor.
	It's one of the lessons you learned from your experience and subsequent exodus and subsequent reinstatement to society is, you know, even watch the jokes, even in jokes, but nonetheless speak your truth.
	Yeah.
	Things have changed.
	It used to be that the internet was a place you could have fun, and people would make edgy jokes, and that was fine, because at the end of the day, it was just things that were happening on the internet, and it was funny.
	However, the entire internet, every single political, every single space became politicized when the left, the millennial left, took over almost every institution, almost every host of any online space.
	And so you'll notice what they do is they treat any statement as if it's a party political broadcast.
	Anything that you've said is treated as if it's some kind of manifesto that you have written, because they are literally taking everything as a concrete political assertion.
	Which, of course, everything's not, but what difference does it make?
	They're turning everything into it, and therefore...
	Well, now it kind of is in some dimension.
	Even if between normal people it's not, you've still got a very well-funded, very vocal and well-organized activist mob who are in control of the institutions who think that it is.
	And so you have to take that seriously.
	When you were saying about the ostracization, I think you're making a really good point there.
	And I think that the perfect example of this is actually Milo Yiannopoulos.
	The fact that he spent so much time in the wilderness and...
	He has radicalized in that time, I think goes to show you exactly what happens to a person when they are essentially backstabbed by the community in which they live, which is what happened with Milo and the Republicans.
	He was framed by the Lincoln Project.
	And yes, he had said things that I don't agree with.
	But, you know, rather than sitting him down on, you know, Joe Rogan or Lex Friedman or whoever, I mean, let's explore this because we, you know.
	We can reform you or maybe bring you in and get you to change your mind and maybe make him understand that actually I think you were the victim of something here rather than thinking that you had agency over and maybe the agency is a bit of a cope over what happened to him rather than doing something which would have been humane and charitable like that and would perhaps have shown him that the world isn't...
	It's actually the evil, monolithic thing that he's now making it out to be.
	It could have kept him in the discourse, in his community, and attached to people, in relationships with people that would have moderated him.
	Instead, he got cancelled by the left, obviously, but cancelled by the right as well, which meant he was completely on the outside.
	And you can see what this has done to him.
	And so when he was on Timcast the other day, you can see in his demeanour that he is scarred.
	You can see that these things have hurt him.
	And so him taking Kanye West and Nick Fuentes to see Trump, I said on Twitter, look, I think this is part of his revenge against the Republican Party.
	And lo and behold, it turned out that it was.
	Because I've known Milo since Gamergate, and I do like him and consider him a friend.
	And I know that he's done bad things, he's stolen money and things like that, and he should be held to account for those things.
	But again, if I were to just be like, well, look, I'm never going to talk to you again, you're a terrible person, then he's not going to get any better.
	And no one ever gets any better by being ostracized.
	And so I really do think that's the exact opposite way we should be dealing with people when they're starting to act out in this way.
	Like Kanye West is a great example as well.
	Okay, Kanye West is currently out there saying wild and ridiculous things that no one agrees with.
	In fact, they're so out there, they sound like he's performing a Dave Chappelle comedy skit, right?
	This sounds exactly, and his delivery of what he's saying...
	Sounds like a joke.
	Now, I've been wrong before, so I'm not going to say that he's joking.
	But I do think that the problem is, actually, Kanye is a damaged person, and he is becoming scarred in the same way that Milo is.
	And I think it would be better to do what Lex Friedman did, actually, and to try and talk him through it.
	But of course, I'm not saying that's the silver bullet.
	I'm not saying he's going to change.
	I'm not saying he's going to mend his ways or anything like that.
	At least that's the right approach to take with these things.
	And if people want to give themselves enough rope to hang them with, okay.
	I don't agree with Elon Musk banning him from Twitter, but I can see why it ended up happening.
	But at least the olive branch was extended, whereas I feel that that's not being extended to too many people.
	And I think it's just dangerous.
	And I think it turns people into the monsters that they're being told that they are.
	And it doesn't have to be that way.
	And just for those who may not know, the Milo Yiannopoulos, he got cancelled for that statement he made about having been sexually assaulted by, I think it was a religious figure, a priest, and he said it was a good thing for him and it helped him discover himself, yada yada.
	And for those who haven't seen Good Will Hunting, first movie reference, it's like the scene from Good Will Hunting when Will's, what's his name?
	Robin Williams is telling Will, it's not your fault, and he's like, yeah, yeah.
	Where someone sits down and says, You're a kid.
	You can't enjoy this.
	You can't consent to it.
	And this is coping.
	I totally agree.
	And it's an interesting thing.
	Now you sort of...
	I tend to feel bad for people in general, even when they don't feel bad for themselves, to view Milo not as a victim, but as a product of double excommunication, backstabbing, to explain how he became the supervillain.
	It's an interesting way of viewing it.
	And I might be wrong.
	I'm not saying I've got the correct interpretation, but that's just...
	That's just how it looks to me.
	I just don't think that's the kind of civilization I want to live in.
	If he's committed a crime, then charge him with something.
	If not, then stop.
	How do you think that the sort of Gramsci-style march of the institutions occurred with such rapidity?
	In other words, if I had been gone for a decade, I would not recognize 2022.
	I mean, the idea that we have men competing in women's sports, men pretending that they can get pregnant, Democratic, well-recognized public figures not wanting to answer whether men can get pregnant, doing drag time, story time for eight-year-olds, bringing little boys and girls to do strip routines at places, actual major publications talking about pedophiles or just minor attracted persons.
	Just insanity at so many cultural, social levels.
	To the degree that even a hardcore lefty like J.K. Rowland can get cancelled because she points out women are women.
	How did this happen with such speed through media?
	And some things that were supposed to be checks, like the monetary motivation of Hollywood to make successful films.
	But instead, they left billions on the table in gutting Star Wars, gutting Star Trek, gutting Doctor Who, gutting a wide range of great franchises.
	Everything.
	Just total annihilation.
	How do you think it happened?
	And how did we not see it happening until it was all of a sudden?
	So, the origin point for this, it depends how far back you want to go, obviously, but I would place it at the beginning of the 20th century, where the communist movement realized that it had failed.
	And it was simply not capable in its current form of bringing about the socialist revolution.
	This is why fascism exploded as it did.
	Fascism was a response to the failures of communism to overthrow capitalism.
	Now, the only place it really succeeded was in Russia in 1917 with Lenin overthrowing the provisional government.
	But it was a communist revolutionary who got imprisoned by the fascists called Gramsci, Antonio Gramsci, who identified, well, that's only happened in Russia because Russia is a deeply corrupt country.
	Where the people do not support the institutions of government, and so they don't care if they get overthrown by a small, organized minority.
	And he accurately, I think, pointed out in his prison notebooks that actually this is not going to happen in the West, you know, especially not in somewhere like the United States, Canada, or England, where actually the institutions are by and large...
	Not corrupt.
	And the people uphold them because they believe the institutions are the best that they're going to get.
	And they like them.
	They think they're important and sustain the world that we have around us.
	And so from this, you have a small group of activists in academia, in Harvard Law School.
	They call themselves the critical legal scholars initially.
	But they...
	Eventually ended up turning themselves into something they called the race crits, or the critical race theorists.
	This began with, I think it was Derek Bell's alternative course, in which they were essentially teaching what would become to be called the intersectional view of society.
	This is essentially a great expansion of Marxism, out of the economic sphere and into Every other sphere of life.
	And in her earliest essays, Kimberley Crenshaw, she's the person who coined the term intersectionality.
	In 1989, she gives her essays really long titles that I can't quite remember off the top of my head.
	But it's something like a black feminist critique of liberal human rights.
	And that's the core of it.
	And so in this one essay, she analyzes three particular American Supreme Court decisions.
	Pointing out that actually what's happening here, she believes that as a black woman, she has identified a problem, an absence in American liberal human rights doctrine, which is when, for example, a pair of black women were denied a promotion in a company.
	I think it was a helicopter company or something like that.
	They were being discriminated against.
	By the people above them, the judge ruled.
	But the judge ruled them either being as either women or being as either black.
	And so a black man could be discriminated against on the basis that he's black, but of course he had a privilege because he was a man, whereas a white woman...
	Would be discriminated against on the fact that she's a woman, but of course had some sort of privilege because she was white.
	And so this was a sort of a gap in liberal human rights law.
	And all intersectionality does is chain these together and says, well, actually, what about a black woman who isn't privileged in either one of these ways and is discriminated against in both of these ways?
	She actually has a worse level of discrimination and things are worse for her.
	And as soon as you start taking on this attitude, you realize.
	Oh, this is a key weakness in liberal human rights doctrine, because what they're doing is staying within the paradigm and...
	Essentially warping it into something it's not intended to be.
	And so from this, she writes an essay in 1991 called Map in the Margins, where she continues to expound this point of view.
	And then this is where intersectionality is properly formulated.
	And in the conclusion of that, she's like, look, we can use this.
	In this essay, she explicitly cites Gramsci, because Gramsci's position was, look.
	We can't overthrow capitalism in the West.
	While the society is strong enough to support its own institutions, he has a nice way of framing it.
	He says, look, when we attack this state and it trembles, behind it is revealed a strong fortification and rampart of society.
	And so it's the society itself actually we need to overthrow in order to be able to bring about communism.
	Crenshaw's like, that's a great point.
	And actually, we can use this weakness in liberal human rights legislation to attack the society itself by promoting minoritarian interests.
	And what we can do is find the intersection between being black, being a woman, being gay, being trans, all the other identity categories that we see now.
	And she openly postulates in the conclusion to this essay that we can form coalitions of marginalized groups in order to strengthen their political voice and hopefully overthrow the regime of the white, cis, hetero, patriarchal norm of capitalism in order to, using their own logic, in order to hopefully bring it.
	It's always very speculative.
	They say things like, might bring about a better future.
	It's like, okay, we might.
	Oh, brilliant.
	That's such a secure way of overthrowing society.
	And so this is, I think, why it's been so unbelievably quick.
	Because it's using their own internal logic.
	And all they do is essentially expand a concept to mean it's antonym.
	So you can take any concept.
	Racism is at once a person's opinion, which is...
	Located within yourself, but it's also objective and outside of yourself, and there's no one person who's responsible for it.
	So you've got two opinions that are openly contradictory, two definitions that are openly contradictory that have been compressed into the same thing, so it allows them to pivot at any point.
	And so using your own logic, you care about human rights, and now they can just collapse all of that down and rush through all of the institutions.
	And that's, I think, why that's happened.
	I had the question.
	I'm sorry I had to answer the doorbell.
	Carl, this entire state of reality, the intersectionality, the entire thing is based on victimization and the pride and the value that comes in being a victim.
	The success is predicated on people finding value in becoming a victim.
	When did that become the virtuous, valuable aspect of an identity?
	I presume...
	Historically, being a victim in eras of true war, nobody wanted.
	Nobody was too sick to fight.
	Nobody wanted to be the injured soldier who had to be taken home, where the old expression, hard times make hard men hard men.
	You know the expression.
	When culturally did being a victim become the utmost of value as a defining element of one's identity?
	The U.S. Civil Rights Act.
	When it became a method to gain political power, because before then, of course, being a victim wasn't a method to gain political power.
	And so from that point onwards, you could argue that, in fact, your special status as a victim entitled you...
	To a kind of privilege in order to kind of level the playing field.
	And so as soon as you have power in the victim status that can be used to advance one's own position, then that becomes a currency.
	And whatever you incentivize, you get more of.
	And so combine that with Crenshaw's view of actually, I can even hack the liberal human rights view and have a double advancement within that.
	I'm doubly or triply oppressed.
	Then you end up with...
	Exactly what we see now.
	There's different ways in which you push back both in court and public opinion, but you also ran for office in the UK.
	What was that like?
	Tremendous fun.
	For people who don't know, Brexit, the UK had been a part of the European Union since I think it was 76 or something like that, but it was never very comfortable in the European Union because Britain...
	England, particularly, has always seen itself as apart from the European continent.
	We are definitely different in certain important ways.
	And one of those ways is governmental philosophy.
	The extent that we think that the government should be able to interfere with their lives, in fact.
	And the Europeans, of course, the French and the Germans, are not of the same mind as the British, particularly the English, when it comes to...
	The way that the rules should be.
	And so Britain was inevitably, I think, going to at least try and leave the European Union.
	And so in 2014, I think it was, the United Kingdom Independence Party, UKIP, was polling at somewhere around, I think it was 15%.
	It was a huge number for an outside party because, of course, we've got the sort of duopoly that the Americans have.
	And so the Conservatives under David Cameron were like, right, we're going to have a referendum on this because they were hoping to kind of kill the issue.
	And if they could kill the issue because they were bleeding voters, basically, to the United Kingdom Independence Party.
	And so they had the referendum against everyone's, all the institutions, all of the elite.
	They didn't want to have the referendum because, I mean, a referenda are actually kind of unusual in British history.
	We don't tend to do them much.
	And, well, the result came back and the majority of people wanted to leave.
	And so that...
	It was political chaos for three years, and we should have been out years earlier.
	And the European Parliament is a kind of parliament above the national parliaments.
	And the thing is, though, it's got far fewer powers than the national parliaments.
	And so the constituents of each...
	European country, tend to be a lot more serious and concerned about real issues when they send people to the national parliaments.
	And so they actually have, especially in Britain, we had a tendency to send loads of UKIP, MEPs, to the European Parliament.
	I think there was only one UKIP MP that was actually elected to the British Parliament.
	And so it's interesting how the public were like, no, no, no, we're going to go over there and send our rabid leavers over to Europe, where they least want to be, to give them hell.
	And they did for years, and it was great.
	There are some really great speeches from the UKIP MEPs on those floors.
	But the point is, every, I think it's five years, I assume it is, when it comes around, three years after the vote, we still haven't left.
	And we were going to have another round of elections for MEPs.
	And this was just intolerable.
	This was just like, no, no, no.
	We shouldn't be voting for this because we've left.
	We shouldn't have any MEPs.
	And the institutions in Britain were doing everything they could to stop Brexit.
	You had legal challenges.
	You had a general kind of inertia and malevolent inertia.
	It's like, no, no, no.
	We're just not going to do things.
	The reason that I ran is just to say, look, you know, I'm just going to get in your face about this, you know, because now I'm an official political candidate.
	Well, you actually have to do things in this.
	You know, now it becomes their actual obligations on the institutions.
	It was a kind of way of getting in their face about it.
	I mean, I had no illusions that we were going to win or anything like that because we were running against Nigel Farage, who was the guy who...
	Essentially, it was the face of Brexit.
	So there was no way we were going to win against him.
	But it allowed us to raise a bunch of issues and draw a bunch of people out who otherwise wouldn't have been forced to have been drawn out and stake their flag in certain places.
	And also, the campaign itself was just really fun.
	I was running for the Southwest where I live, which is a big constituency, actually.
	The MEP constituencies are quite large.
	For example, the local MP is like 100,000, roughly, people block.
	And you can go around it in a car in a day.
	But the entire southwest and Gibraltar is several million people.
	And you can't just go around it in a day.
	And so we have this campaign.
	Essentially, we threw darts in a map.
	We're going to go there, there, there, there, and there.
	And we just host like...
	Public town hall meetings.
	They're all up on my YouTube channel still.
	And they were just great fun.
	And we got a bunch of, you know, insane leftists coming out to attack us or debate us.
	And then we had, like, really decent, normal people.
	Like, yeah, no, look, we voted to leave.
	We should leave.
	This is democracy.
	What the hell's going on?
	And so the whole thing was just tremendous fun.
	It was just nice to see how the establishment reacts, really.
	We don't need to get into it in too much detail, but they tried to cancel you for other reasons, even during the campaign, because of some edgy humor back in the days of the interwebs.
	And you forced the...
	I saw that interview with a BBC journalist.
	It was the most patronizing interview one could imagine.
	But you forced the issue of freedom of speech at that time.
	This is now three years ago, four years ago?
	Three years.
	So you were forcing the issue of freedom of speech at that time.
	Has it gotten better or worse in the UK?
	I'm asking a rhetorical question because you're going to say, how much worse has it gotten in the UK?
	What's it like to be in a country, and I'm from one too, where you can get in prison for a joke?
	Well, it's not good.
	I can't stand it, really.
	And to be honest with you, I'm actually surprised I've never arrived in legal trouble for things I've said on the internet.
	Every time I've had to speak to the police about this sort of stuff, I've just explained my case.
	And they've been like, right, okay.
	And just left me alone.
	I don't know whether it's because they're like, oh God, this will be a lot of trouble.
	It's not worth our time.
	Let's just go after some person with like, you know, three Instagram followers who posted some rap lyrics.
	Let's arrest that person instead.
	But there are thousands of people a year who are arrested.
	Some are jailed and a lot are fined for literally just things they post on the internet that are deemed offensive.
	So it's like, right, okay.
	It's not great.
	I mean, Count Dankula being the ur-example, he had like three, four YouTube followers who were just his mates, puts up a video that is just a shitpost.
	You know, it's an obvious joke.
	And I won't re-encount the story because I'm sure everyone knows it.
	And so that went how that went.
	And so, I mean, it's not great.
	I just, I can't understand why we've been ruled by conservative government for 12 years now.
	And they have just continued everything that the radically left-wing Labour government brought in.
	And this is what's most disappointing about Boris Johnson, is that he knows the problems.
	I think in his heart, he is a British patriot.
	And he had just the unbelievable majority to be able to remould, reshape the country in whatever fashion that he wanted.
	Because in Britain, Parliament is sovereign.
	Parliament can literally, it's got the power of God.
	It can literally do anything at once.
	And so if you've got a whacking great majority in the Parliament, which Boris did with 380 seats, which is way more than half, he could have just passed legislation after legislation, just fixing everything.
	And if I were in charge...
	I'd have had all of this solved in a week.
	You know, I'm like, no, that's gone, that's gone, that's gone, that's gone, that's gone, that's gone, you know, and boom, we're going back to how things were before the Labour, before the Communists and Labour took over.
	But for some reason, our Conservatives have absolutely no spine, probably because they're a WEF-occupied party at this point, as you can see with Rishi Sunak being installed and not elected, which is why they're cratering in the polls.
	And for anyone watching, go and support the Reform Party.
	That's Nigel Farage's...
	Brexit Party retooled into the Reform Party.
	We actually, Beau, a resident historian at lotuses.com, just did an interview today with Richard Tice, who's the leader of the Reform Party.
	After the interview, I was like, so how did it go, Beau?
	He's like, mate, he's with us on every point.
	He's like, great, fantastic.
	He's actually like a populist alternative to the WEF Conservative Party and the WEF Labour Party.
	Everyone in Britain, just support the Reform Party.
	It's the best shot we have at the moment, I would say.
	Yeah, I use Britain as an example.
	A bad example.
	Yeah, well, exactly.
	As a warning sign.
	Because historically, UK politics and American politics tend to move together.
	I mean, this goes all, you know, Margaret Thatcher signaled Ronald Reagan.
	The collapse, you know, John Major, his collapse signaled the collapse of the Bush regime.
	Tony Blair was a lot like Bill Clinton in certain respects, at least by image and presentation.
	The ability of conservatives to hold on was a reflection of the decline of the Labor Party that was like the decline of the Democratic Party.
	Policy-wise, in the United States, Obama, his personal appeal just hid for a little while.
	And Brexit presaged Trump.
	But what I've told people, there's an argument here within the institutional Republican Party, that their only problem is Trump.
	They just get rid of Trumpism, they get rid of Trump, they get rid of populism, then they will have the presidency and the House and the Senate and the governorship.
	And I keep saying, what's the problem then in the UK?
	Because we see what Romney-style, Bush-branded, milk-toast, meal-mouth conservatism looks like in the UK, and the UK working class want nothing to do with it.
	So much so, they're willing to vote for a Labour Party they still despise and dislike.
	Well, just a quick thing on that.
	Actually, one of the interesting things is that the Conservative Party voters, the people who would vote for the sort of patriotic platform offered by Boris, it's not actually that they go over to the Labour Party.
	It's that they just decide we're not going to vote at all.
	And so the percentage-wise, it looks like the Labour Party is gaining a huge percentage.
	But actually, in raw numbers, what it means is there's going to be exceptionally low voter turnout in the next election.
	And Labour will win purely because the Patriots are just going to stay home.
	Because they're going to say, well, no, I'm not voting for any of that.
	I'm not having it.
	You get what you deserve.
	You get crushed.
	The conservatives get crushed because you betrayed us, basically.
	And I think there's a lot of merit to that.
	And with the MAGA movement, I view that as a genuinely authentic voice of the American people.
	I really like the MAGA crowd, and they seem to be just like...
	Just diehard American patriots, like with the Canadian truckers, in fact.
	I view this as the authentic voice of the average Canadian compared to, of course, Trudeau's liberal elite.
	And so watching what the elite do to these movements is kind of heartbreaking to me because whenever I speak to any of these people, they just remind me of my family because I don't come from a posh family.
	I was just lucky enough to have a dad who went into the armed forces and...
	I was in a kind of middle class environment in the armed forces, which is why I have a nice accent.
	But it's not because I come from a wealthy family at all.
	There's no wealth in my family.
	I was the first one on my mum's side to even go to university.
	So there's no pedigree in my family at all.
	But they are all good people and they are all hardworking and they deserve to be represented.
	And it sickens me to watch Western politics as a whole.
	Be so unrepresentative of their own nations.
	And as soon as an authentic voice emerges in a populist movement, it's just crushed with as much fervor as they can muster.
	I mean, what happened to the Canadian truckers is just abominable.
	If I was a Canadian, I'd be like, right, okay, that's the new reality.
	Trudeau just is a WEF-occupied tyrant, and this is something we have to really...
	Well, it's even worse than that.
	And you make the analogy between the MAGA crowd, the MAGAs in the States, the truckers in Canada.
	And my experience with it is it's the political elite that crush it, that demonize it, that use their government media apparatus to spread the propaganda.
	But the problem is it works on a substantial portion of the population.
	You've got, I'd say, a good 30% of America thinking that...
	The MAGA crowd are fascist Nazis.
	Domestic terrorists.
	Domestic terrorists.
	You got in Canada, I don't believe the polls for a second, but I know from my own milieu, a lot of people say, maybe it wasn't so wrong to use the Emergencies Act to quell this.
	Those protesters are a bunch of goons in the first place.
	You go back to the UK, and Carl, you'll tell me, what percentage of the general population thinks it was okay to fine or jail Count Dankula for his Nazi pug joke?
	I mean, it's not insignificant, I presume, in the UK.
	I can imagine that most people probably think it's ridiculous.
	In Britain, it's the Brexit voters who are the authentic voice of Britain.
	Luckily, actually, that's a really large...
	The majority of people.
	Even those people who voted Remain weren't necessarily against Brexit.
	They just were unsure and so they thought, I'll vote status quo just because everything seems okay.
	Brexit honestly is kind of an English phenomenon because English radicalism is always based around the idea of the sovereignty of Britain, the sovereignty of England.
	We shouldn't be ruled by a foreign country because we haven't.
	For a thousand years.
	And so that really is embedded deeply into the English psyche.
	And so it was actually a really large percentage of people that even though they may have voted Remain, they were like, no, we voted for Brexit, so we're going to do that.
	And it settled nicely with a large percentage of the population, I think.
	Are you following the World Cup at all?
	I mean, I did like the English fans who dressed up as Crusaders and didn't realize that in Qatar that might not go over well.
	Well, no, no, no.
	The Qataris didn't mind them being crusaders at all, did they?
	You can't wear your gay armbands, but you can dress as a crusader, which shows you that the Qataris have a totally different perspective on offense to what Western progressives thought, because it was FIFA themselves who said, no, you can't dress as crusaders, not the Qataris.
	But it was the Qataris who said, you can't wear your gay armbands, and FIFA were like, okay, guys, sorry, football association, you're just going to have to take them off, or else they're going to send you home, you know?
	They don't mind the Crusaders.
	I think there's an element in the Muslim world that probably respects the Crusaders, in a way, in the same way that the Crusaders respect Saladin and the Muslims who fought them off.
	It's not a lack of honour there, but of course, in the Islamic world, homosexuality is considered to be morally sinful, and so they look at that totally differently.
	Yeah, you see that.
	I mean, Russia just passed laws limiting a wide range of advertising and marketing of any behavior it considers sexually deviant.
	It is extraordinary that you're seeing Central and Eastern Europe, parts of Africa, parts of Asia, parts of Middle East, parts of Latin America, moving away from wokeism, and it's the upper middle class white left.
	That is leading the fight for wokeism in the West.
	It's the old Victorians.
	It's the old colonialists.
	I think your point was precisely correct.
	They have a new definition of what they want to colonialize and why, but they still have a colonialist mindset at heart.
	It's why they're built in to be totalitarian psychologically in terms of their mindset.
	They can't help themselves.
	They literally can't help themselves.
	They can't live and let live because they've essentially invalidated every other moral system.
	And so they can't understand that someone else might have an opinion about something else that is different to their own.
	And you'll notice, in fact, that they harmonize the concepts of being stupid and immoral.
	Because their entire philosophy, they believe they have rationally calculated the correct morality, and so stupid people are also immoral people, whereas people who agree with them are also intelligent.
	People who are on their side are also intelligent.
	And I think that's actually deeply dangerous, because one thing I think that I've learned, and this is one of the reasons I've become a lot more conservative over the years, is that actually, trial and error is way more useful for determining right and wrong than...
	Some sort of a priori hypothetical calculation about what should be and then applying that to the world because, I mean, if the 20th century has shown us nothing, it's that all of these theoretical moral calculations are...
	Maybe fine in the abstract, but as soon as you start trying to apply them to reality, you realize the reality is a lot more complex than the philosophy would have you believe.
	And so you end up with many problems springing up that you didn't know were going to happen, and now you can't deal with because you're locked into a rigid framework of ideas.
	And so I find myself essentially trying to shed ideology altogether because it's...
	It's just an inaccurate way of viewing the world, and I don't think that it's right.
	I actually think that traditional morality is a lot more human, a lot more intuitive, and actually depends on the situation, the context, and the way people are dealing with one another.
	And I think it maps onto reality a lot better.
	The idea of the white liberals colonializing and applying that now to what we're seeing in terms of the madness in America and Canada.
	I'm thinking now to the gender ideology and gender transition stuff in children, Carl.
	I'm led to believe that that is nowhere near as prevalent and extreme in the UK as it has become in Canada and America, but America more so.
	It seems that Canada is the canary in the coal mine, doesn't it?
	Luckily, in England, we are...
	Intrinsically conservative morally.
	We are, of course, dominated by the left in every way.
	But the regular person...
	If we had some sort of proportional representation or direct democracy, Britain would be a very far-right country, morally.
	I looked it up the other day, actually.
	In 2021, 56% of people in Britain think we should bring back the death penalty, for example, which was outlawed, I think, in 1969.
	So even, you know, even like 50 years after it was outlawed.
	And there isn't a single politician in Britain who agrees with bringing back the death penalty.
	So the conservative politicians are to the left of Labour voters on the subject of the death penalty.
	I'm writing an article about this, actually, because it's staggering, the lack of genuine representation that we have at this point.
	So the public are actually very conservative in their morals.
	And it's because they have this sort of traditional, sort of empirical view.
	Like, we don't really care about your theories.
	Look at how that person is suffering.
	You know, you can see the suffering on the person's face.
	And actually, maybe you should make a decision extracted from the circumstance you can see, rather than consulting the table of, you know, social justice dictums to see if there's one that fits the circumstance.
	So it is less bad than in Canada and the United States, particularly places like California, obviously, where it is just...
	It's become an industry.
	I mean, once it becomes an industry, it takes on a life of its own.
	But it's worse than that, though.
	It's become an unquestionable truth, right?
	And it's become scientific dogma to certain people.
	And I think that it's going to age like, you know, lobotomizing.
	I just...
	I don't...
	I hate anyone.
	I don't want trans people to suffer, but I do genuinely think that there's going to...
	And I've read too many D-Trans stories to not have this opinion now, where it's just...
	You've got our D-Trans subreddits and stuff like that, where you just...
	You see these horror stories, and they're like, look, I was 16. How could you let me cut off my breasts?
	I was 18. How could you let me...
	Cut off, castrate myself.
	You know, how could you let me do this?
	And I just don't think that people that young should be able to make decisions that big, frankly.
	That's why they're not allowed getting tattoos.
	They can't smoke, they can't drink.
	They can't smoke, they can't get tattoos.
	But you can create a front hole that you then have to make TikTok videos about how it's impossible to dilate.
	If you don't continue dilating it, it can seal off and cause an infection.
	But actually, one question, what you said, you know, conservative values, conservative morals in the UK.
	Yet, there seems to be that suicidal, self-destructive level of political correctness when it comes to certain types of issues.
	So people object to grooming gangs, but then also take certain issues with reporting on the grooming gangs.
	And so there seems to be something of a conflict between...
	We've got a liberal bubble, obviously.
	You've got it in your capital city, Americans have it in theirs.
	We have it in London, obviously.
	And it does dominate the media landscape, but thankfully the British public are actually quite canny about these things.
	The BBC approval is very, very low at the moment.
	Probably will be for quite some time because of the constant projection, the sort of media halo around the progressive values.
	Despite the fact that reality on the ground doesn't match up with it.
	Everyone can see that.
	I'm not saying that, and it's probably never been the case, that the liberal elites in Britain have ever had a patriotic bone in their body or a common sense bone in their body.
	But the majority of the British public are actually pretty based, to be honest.
	They're pretty on the level.
	But it's probably the same in America and Canada.
	The regular person is like, no, that's obvious nonsense.
	I don't buy into it at all.
	But you've got institutions, you've got laws, you've got...
	Power and money, corporations, the message being pushed everywhere.
	What's the regular person supposed to do?
	When you started Lotus Eaters, what was your thought process?
	How difficult did you think it would be?
	Do you think it would have the success it would have?
	What was your process?
	I'm never one to turn down a challenge, right?
	And I never try to estimate how difficult something's going to be until I'm...
	Halfway through doing it.
	So I didn't really know how difficult it would be.
	And honestly, it hasn't been terribly difficult.
	I've been very lucky to have really clever, hardworking, dedicated people around me.
	I could call upon, you know, an employee and get...
	I think a really solid media organization up and running quite quickly and efficiently.
	And honestly, you know, John, Callum, Vicky, you know, the whole team and everyone I've had has been brilliant.
	And so nothing but glowing praise for all of them.
	So that actually wasn't very difficult.
	But what I wanted to do is create a space where we could actually have the freedom to not have to worry about being demonetized on YouTube or something like that.
	And thank God we have, you know...
	Enough paid subscribers who can sustain the work that we're doing.
	And so what we do is put out the regular podcast, stuff like that.
	But then we do book analyses, premium podcasts, where we discuss in depth various ideas that we think are lacking in the conservative spaces.
	And when I say conservative spaces, I really mean not left-wing spaces.
	The ways in which conservatives or...
	Not leftists need to bolster their own positions and actually find a way to ideologically, if not, you know, go for the heart of leftism and break it apart, then at least sort of turn the beam and have it point in another direction so we can...
	Maintain something of our own that doesn't just instantly get destroyed.
	And I actually think we're doing a really good job of this, which is why I could just, off the top of my head, tell you where intersectionality came from, because it was part of the studying that we're doing.
	Essentially, I wanted to send it to sort of a conservative think tank, you know.
	I could instantly tell you exactly where intersectionality come from, because collectively we have sat down, we've read all the papers, we've done all the work, we've studied where this has come from, what they're trying to do, and...
	We're creating a philosophical framing around how we can start describing the world in different ways.
	And I think the first thing that the conservatives need to think about, the non-leftists need to think about, is just the language that comes out of our mouths, right?
	Conservatives or normal people are interested.
	I'm going to say conservatives, not that I'm saying everyone's right-wing or anything.
	But when the left calls you a conservative, even if you're not a conservative, what they're saying is, you are not a radical.
	There is a part of reality that you are willing to leave untouched and existing that doesn't conform to the left-wing ideology that I'm trying to impose.
	And so if you're like, well, no, that's fine.
	That's not problematic.
	I don't care about that.
	Why are you trying to destroy that?
	You're a conservative now, right?
	So that's how I'm using the term conservative.
	But what conservatives need to start thinking about is, do I actually agree with the ideological constructs that the left is presenting me with, right?
	When they say, for example, the black community.
	Okay, well, where does the black community live?
	Black community.
	Because a community is a local area.
	A group of people who live in a particular place who know one another and have personal relationships with one another and family groups that build out from this in social organizations that are concentric, overlapping organizations and circles.
	That's what a community is.
	And so when they say black community, well, that doesn't exist.
	That's not a thing.
	What they mean when they say community is race.
	They mean the black race.
	Every black person without exception in every place and every time that has ever existed.
	And this is how they get to saying the LGBT community.
	Oh, where does that exist?
	Where does that exist?
	That has never existed, never will exist, and it can't exist.
	There's no such thing as an LGBT community.
	What they mean is the LGBT race.
	And notice how they'll say, oh...
	This person from history was part of the LGBT community.
	No, because that's a fictional, hypothetical construct.
	You're saying the gay and transgender race.
	That's what you're saying.
	So in all places, in all times, you are talking about all people who you have arbitrarily categorized in this way, who don't recognize you, who don't recognize your constructs, who don't agree with your politics, and who don't see themselves at all in the way that you are trying to project onto them.
	And so the first thing conservatives need to do...
	Is abandon these very, very abstract, very broad categories.
	Because if you think about language, it's the tool we use to describe the world around us.
	And so if I hold up this, this is a can, right?
	And so the word can, you could see as wrapping around the object.
	It's very close.
	When I say can, everyone looking, yeah, that is a can.
	There isn't anything else you need to try and bring into this idea, into this concept.
	But if I were to say, well, Container for drinks, you know, vessel.
	Well, that's a lot more abstract because there are lots of individual things like a cup is also a vessel.
	And so now you can see how the concept has to kind of wrap around lots and lots of different kinds of things.
	And so you see you're abstracting.
	That's another step away from a concrete.
	Part of reality, you know, and so this is the danger of allowing the left to control the dialogue and control the language that we use, is that we end up in such remote places that we now just hear the Black community, the LGBT community, the X community, the Y community, and we don't even question that that's a real thing, but none of it's real.
	It's so abstract, and it's in our heads, and we use it every day, and it's how they win every argument.
	They always win every argument fundamentally in the framing.
	They frame the argument in something so remote, so abstract, that doesn't really exist, but now you're committed to it, and they can just drill you to wherever they want you to go.
	So I realize I'm going on quite a lot, but you see what I mean?
	This is the kind of thing that we're getting into.
	I was going to say, you stopped at LGBT.
	In Canada, it's LGBTQIA2S +, and it's not a joke.
	The 2S is two-spirit for Indigenous, and the plus is for everything else, and some people are suggesting that might, sooner than later, you might have to add a little MAP at the end of that, and I'm not saying that to be glib.
	Carl, just one question.
	I can cite you an academic for that.
	There's an academic, I think he's a political science professor, called James Cantor.
	Who just came out on Twitter and said, look, if we want to be ethically consistent and ideologically consistent, we do have to add the P on the end.
	James Cantor?
	I think it's James Cantor.
	Cantor, psychologist.
	There's no shortage of public interest about sex, and as a science and a teacher, I'm firmly...
	All right, I'll have a look at that.
	Honestly, you will be able to find his tweets to say, no, we do need to have the P on the end.
	And I'm not trying to smear him or anything like that, because I'm not suggesting that he is...
	In favour of these things, his entire argument was, look, if we want to be ideologically consistent, we can identify a marginalised community that is currently on the receiving end of oppression.
	And technically, that's true.
	Whether the oppression is justified or not is a completely different conversation.
	And you've got an entire wing of French postmodern philosophy that pathologizes prisons as a form of oppression.
	It's like, yes, good.
	Oppress more.
	In fact, bring back hanging.
	You know, what do you want?
	You know, I'm in favor of certain people being oppressed for things that they do.
	So, yeah, I don't think oppression is intrinsically bad.
	It depends why you're being oppressed, doesn't it?
	But anyway, that's a long conversation about things.
	So you do have an active advocacy movement and people who you can name who are in favor of that, I'm afraid.
	Someone had asked in the chat in Rumble about the grooming gangs and set aside the ethnic racial aspect.
	Is one of the theories, are you deep enough into this, is one of the theories as to why it's been put on the hush hush, not just political correctness, but rather deep corruption of politicians who might be involved, like this is your Epstein story of the UK?
	Yes, there are definitely politicians, local Labour councillors, and probably a few MPs who have been involved in covering this up.
	This is without a doubt the case.
	But I think really the main problem is that the scope of it is actually a bit terrifying to British politicians, because I saw a video on the BBC where they were talking about the grooming gangs.
	And this young Pakistani woman was in like a ballet class or something.
	She was like, well, we all knew it was going on, but it was just white girls.
	It's like, there we go.
	That's it.
	That's what it is.
	Because the problem isn't that this is just an issue that these individuals took part in.
	It kind of implicates the entire community.
	They knew it was going on.
	They knew it had a racial dimension to it, a religious dimension to it.
	And they knew the politicians and the police were also involved in covering it up.
	And so no one wanted to touch it because it raises some terrible, terrible questions.
	And there we go.
	I mean, the UK economy continues to take a lot of hits.
	How bad might it get this winter over there?
	Because there's talk it might be...
	Really, really bad.
	It's not going to be as bad as Germany, thankfully, but we didn't deactivate all of our nuclear power plants in order to save the Earth and then rely entirely on Russia for our energy needs.
	But it is bad because, as I understand it, the UK gets a lot of its gas from Norway, which has significant natural gas reserves.
	But, of course, Germany...
	Finding itself on the wrong end of the Nord Stream pipeline means it's in dire need of gas.
	And so Norway is kindly sharing their gas with Germany and the UK.
	So our energy supplies are becoming more and more expensive.
	It is ridiculous, the amount of money we now have to spend on energy.
	It is shocking.
	But it's not going to be as bad as it is in Germany or other parts of Europe.
	It's going to be bad, though.
	I mean, it's already really hitting people.
	Everyone can feel the cost of living crisis.
	So it's, I mean, I just, I try not to think about it, to be honest.
	You get by as best you can, basically.
	It's going to be bad.
	This is going to, these two subjects are going to emerge into one.
	First of all, before I forget, how tall are you?
	Because now that can of Coke looks very small in your hands compared to, you're over six feet tall, aren't you?
	No, I'm five foot nine.
	That's six feet to me anyhow.
	How tall are you?
	Five, five and a half on a good day.
	Really?
	I would never have known.
	No, I come from...
	I have thick soles on my shoes.
	Carl, okay, so energy crisis, policy failure in the UK, in Europe.
	The people on the street.
	Are they following this, supporting this war, the support for Ukraine with the social media fervor that we see in the U.S.?
	And has your view of that...
	This morning I had the revelation, like, sort of a long time in the making, that the social media campaign for the war in Ukraine...
	Is totally analogous to the social media campaign we saw about COVID.
	The brainwashing, the pillars of marketing, branding, repetition, demonizing.
	Is the sentiment for the war in Ukraine one of general support among the population?
	Or are people sort of among themselves saying this is ridiculous and sort of analogizing the elite social media campaign to that that they use in COVID to pit neighbor against neighbor?
	This is what I call current thingism.
	Because you'll notice that every current thing has the same essential characteristics applied to it.
	Our side is 100% good.
	Everything about what the current thing is is an unvarnished good.
	There are no detriments, no downsides to any of it.
	And whatever is opposing the current thing is an unvarnished evil.
	Everything about it is incredibly bad, and there are no redeeming characteristics to it.
	And so we represent all virtue, they represent all vice, and therefore you should be flag-waving for a foreign country, or you should be wearing a gay armband or whatever it is, whatever the thing is.
	And the opposite team is evil.
	In the UK, there was some polling done recently that showed the majority of the country don't support the current thing.
	They don't support Ukraine, and they don't really care about Ukraine.
	Just my personal view...
	I don't care about Ukraine and Russia at all.
	I have no interest in Russia politically, and I have no interest in Ukraine politically.
	And so when they're like, you need to support the current thing, it's like, well, I'm instantly skeptical that Ukraine is an unvarnished good.
	Sorry to sound callous, but it's an Eastern European country, and every single one of them is wildly corrupt by Western European standards, right?
	I mean, Zelensky is nearly a billionaire.
	He was a comedian, right?
	A Ukrainian comedian, nearly a billionaire, put two and two together.
	There's some massive corruption going on there, right?
	Obviously, Putin is an evil dictator who's massively corrupt as well.
	So, you know, oh, I'm watching a spider and a scorpion duke it out.
	Oh, I'm on the scorpion side.
	No, I don't care.
	You know, I don't...
	It's not my business.
	You know, it's just...
	Eastern European.
	Someone's going to say, Carl, this is...
	I won't say white privilege because we're still dealing with Eastern Europe, but they're going to say cultural privilege.
	It's an atrocity.
	So you have to care.
	And you're a selfish bastard for not caring about this atrocity.
	I would agree if you didn't make us forcibly dismantle the British Empire.
	If we were the imperial power who was deigned to go around the world and stamp out injustices, I'd be like, yes, that's right.
	Send the navy.
	Go over there.
	We'll give Russia another thrashing like we did in Crimea.
	But...
	Everyone's like, no, no, imperialism is bad.
	No, you can't go around being imperial and imposing your values on these countries.
	That's evil.
	And so, okay, I agree with you.
	Great.
	Now what?
	Now why is it my problem?
	You know, I am now a little Englander.
	I just want to live in my little country and be left alone.
	The world's problems are not my problems.
	And you made sure that I had to say that.
	And so now you can reap what you've sown.
	Not my problem.
	Any hope, do you think, for modern culture?
	I thought at some point somebody would wake up in Hollywood and be like, let's not keep losing billions of dollars.
	Let's not trash brands that cost us billions of dollars.
	Like they did with Star Wars, Star Trek, as you noted, everything.
	Is there any hope other than maybe the critical drinker stuff gets picked up and there's some cool independent comics?
	But other than that, is there hope?
	I think they will.
	And I think the early signs are already there.
	You can see that Disney are pulling back on the woke stuff.
	you can see a bunch of different areas of life.
	In fact, there are a bunch of CEOs who have come out in support, vocal support of Elon Musk because of what he's been doing saying, no, look, we're going to have a level playing field when it comes to social media.
	I'm going to uncancel a bunch of people, get rid of some people who have been making violent threats.
	In fact, from this platform, we're going to have the rules applied evenly to both sides, which is all anyone really actually wants.
	I personally just want everyone to be able to use it.
	Within the bounds of reason.
	I don't want to see Ethan Klein cancelled, but if Ethan Klein is going to go the Kanye West route and sit there calling for death to whoever and saying crazy things, well, okay, you're going to get yourself cancelled, mate.
	He meant bomb the NRA with love.
	It's a joke!
	It's a joke!
	In Minecraft, yeah.
	But yeah, so I actually do think there is...
	Hope on the horizon is just going to be a little bit off.
	And the thing is, though, the problem is going to be the poison left in the system, right?
	Because what...
	And I don't want to get too deep on this, but I think that there is...
	It's like having polio, right?
	And so you'll never walk properly, even if you recover from it.
	And so...
	What's happening to Zoomers in particular from the Millennials, because people of our generation dropped the ball and allowed them to take over, is that they have come into a world where I think there's, in some ways, kind of a piece of them missing, right?
	In the same way that I feel there's a piece of me missing because my parents didn't make me go to church.
	You know, the boomers were very much, oh, well, we won't do that.
	But actually...
	That deprived me of something.
	You know, it's not my parents understood or knew or, you know, or in any way to blame or anything like that because that's just part of the cultural milieu in which they exist.
	And the Zoomers have got the same problem where they're in a world where they essentially don't have any future prospects and they have internalized many of the millennial assumptions.
	And so even if the Zoomers aren't like, well, we need to cancel everything for being impure.
	They still have to live with the legacy of feminism is a massive one for both men and women.
	In fact, like the women do not understand why actually maintaining some aspect of purity about yourself is a good thing.
	And I see this every single day.
	I see some tweet or Instagram post or whatever from some young woman of like 24 being like, I told this guy I had a three-figure body count and he just stopped calling me.
	Why?
	Why does that matter?
	It's like, because it matters.
	Right?
	It matters to him.
	It matters to every other guy.
	Oh, I've got an OnlyFans and I can't get a date.
	A three-figure bodycat?
	You mean that's three, like...
	A hundred, yes.
	You mean...
	Sorry?
	Three-figure means big.
	A hundred, yeah.
	Over a hundred men they've slept with.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I was thinking, wait, not...
	No, no, no, no, no.
	People have sex with that many people?
	They do now.
	Because, I mean, when we were lads, I'm sure you remember it was quite difficult to get a woman to put out, right?
	You had to work quite hard, buy lots of flowers, you know, and you had to spend a lot of time investment before she would let you get anywhere because she was...
	Considering her own sanctity to be something worth preserving.
	Well, the millennials have completely flattened that out, and that no longer exists for Generation Z women, which is not good for either the women or the men, because you've got so many young women who are like, I'm on OnlyFans, I can't get a date.
	No guy will date me because I'm on OnlyFans.
	Is that okay?
	And then conversely, you've got the guys going, I can't find a woman who doesn't have a sordid history that I would like to marry.
	And so this...
	I just need to say this because this is not a double standard.
	If I knew of a man that had sex with 100 women, I would find it equally as nauseating.
	I mean, it's like I have trouble touching hormones.
	It is a double standard, and it's right that it's a double standard.
	This is another left-wing assumption we have to...
	I'll hear you out, and then I'll tell you my bit afterwards.
	Go ahead, Carl.
	So the question is one of power and decision-making, right?
	It is very easy for a woman to have sex.
	It's very hard for a man to have sex.
	And so it is an explicit and vulgar display of power when a woman just repeatedly has sex with lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of different guys.
	That is not hard.
	It's in the same...
	Conversely, it would be the same if you would be impressed if a woman were able to beat up five different guys, but you're not impressed when a guy beats up five different women, right?
	It's about relative social power.
	And that's why it's a double standard, and that's why it should be a double standard, right?
	A man who is...
	I'm doing wrong.
	I agree with you.
	You shouldn't, you know, as a man, go and have 100 partners.
	That speaks to something wrong with you.
	But there is also the aspect of, well, you did it at the social disadvantage that men have when trying to have sex with women, whereas a woman has an obvious social advantage when trying to have sex with men.
	There was an attractive man.
	I saw this ages ago.
	I wish I'd saved it because it was such a good example of what I'm talking about.
	It was one of those viral social experiment videos where an attractive woman was going up to guys on the street saying, do you want to have sex?
	And half these guys were like, are you serious?
	And they're like, yeah, yeah.
	And half of them said yes, right?
	Attractive guy went up to various women on the streets, propositioning them, they're like, hey, would you like to have sex?
	Just really nicely friendly.
	That's dangerous, stranger, pepper spray in the face.
	What percentage of those women do you think said yes?
	5% at most.
	Zero.
	Zero of those women said yes.
	Because there is something important about sex, right?
	Women control access to this very important thing.
	And remember, like, sex...
	Before birth control, I mean, and even after, it's something profound, right?
	Like, it generates new life, and that's a huge commitment for a woman.
	And so instinctively, they're going to be like, right, actually, I need to be particular with the guys I'm going to have sex with.
	And of course, millennial philosophy combined with birth control and abortion has made it so that women of the younger generation now don't understand what it was that was being protected.
	Male instinct to have a woman who is yours, right?
	There's a phrase I see Zoomers using all the time.
	She wasn't your woman, it was just your turn, right?
	And that is the saddest phrase in the world to me.
	Like, genuinely sad.
	And again, I hate to base so much of what I see on viral posts, but I do think it's important because I think these hit a cultural zeitgeist, right?
	They hit a node, which is why so many people want to share them.
	And so when 100,000 or a million people have liked a particular post, there must have been something about it that was important.
	And you see all the time on wholesome pages where it's like, oh, here's Ethel and George.
	They've been married for 80 years and they're still together at 95 or something like that.
	And everyone's like, oh, that's so wholesome.
	It's like, yes, it is wholesome.
	You will never have that.
	That has been denied to you.
	You can't even get a girlfriend for more than a month or six months.
	Think about the way the world has changed and what has been taken away from you and think about how to get it back.
	And I don't think the Zoomers can get it back.
	But maybe the children of the Zoomers can be like, actually, no, we're not going to be like this.
	Maybe.
	I don't know if that's possible.
	We're in a brave new world, I'm afraid.
	But it is part of the difference between men and women and what each of them wants from the other that we need to start.
	Essentially, not turning back the clock on, but realigning to what essentially the biological reality of these things is.
	To a certain degree, what I thought went wrong with aspects of modern feminism was that it treated so-called male ideals as the ideal.
	In other words, it stripped what was unique to femininity away from the source of women's power.
	Rather than looking at things and saying, well, we want to make sure women are protected in a certain way, treated equally, etc., it became we want women to be more like men.
	Success is CEOs.
	Success is high-ranking political positions.
	Success is outside of the home.
	Success is not raising kids.
	And you'll notice that you're completely right about all of this, but what this does is render women as effectively defective men.
	And so still they go on about the gender wage gap.
	And it's like, okay, but that's because men tend to work about 15 to 20% more hours a week than women.
	And so obviously you've got a gender pay gap of about 15 to 20%.
	What do you expect?
	But you are exactly right.
	A properly feminist movement would lean into the femininity of women and say, well, look, actually, think about those men that you're sleeping with.
	Is this the sort of high-value man that you want your future to be built with?
	Because that's a genuinely feminine concern.
	There's not a man's concern.
	You know, man's got totally different.
	He's got other concerns that are similar.
	But like, you know, the sort of authentically female concerns have been completely thrown by the wayside as far as feminism's concerned.
	They're like, look, you have to be as manly as you can.
	You have to act like a man.
	You have to think like a man.
	You have to beat the men.
	It's not a competition.
	It's not a competition.
	Yeah, I mean, I had a feminist law professor who wanted to bring back alienation of affections, wanted to limit prostitution.
	And the reasons for it was it's depriving women of their leverage in the biological space.
	And she understood this in a way, I mean, like now she would be persona non grata in the feminist space, even though she was one of the prominent feminist law professors of her time and place.
	And so you see it in that kind of, and then you see it in things like, there's a psychologist that was talking to my brother that was pointing out that What feminists have done is recreated old societies to where you have 80% of the women competing for 5% of the men.
	And you see it reflected in the Tinder realities of the world.
	And it creates, on the flip side, the incel culture, who now those women ignore.
	So you have 50-60% of men who don't get any dates.
	And this is not a sustainable modern system in our modern day society.
	And some women are waking up to it bits and pieces in some generations, but millennials have been the worst at it.
	You know, like the definition of true feminine liberation was how many men they slept with.
	It's like, where did you get that idea?
	Yeah, I mean, that's like, it's not an accomplishment, you know, for a woman to have sex with those guys.
	It's not an accomplishment.
	You've raised a number of interesting points.
	I view the world through my own lens of fear of disease, which keeps my schmeckle in my pants.
	The hottest woman off the street asked me to have sex.
	I'm like, holy cows, how many people have you done this with before?
	Not in a million years.
	I'd have to go through blood tests before I go get intimate with a woman.
	It's fascinatingly interesting, and I can see.
	Carl, in demeanor, who was I watching where you were interviewing talking about the...
	Oh, it was the British podcast where you're talking about the 50-some-odd-year-old model who went to Instagram and wants to be valorized as a 50-year-old for what she was valorized for as a 20-year-old and then gets angry when that doesn't happen.
	And I mean, it's compelling.
	I think it's intuitive.
	And then I can understand how it leads to Wikipedia entries calling you misogynistic for acknowledging inherent differences but also inherent misplaced values.
	And now you're making me very, very nervous about raising my two girls because I didn't think of this.
	I'm really nervous myself.
	Yeah, I was wondering because I had this discussion with Viva down in Texas about things like one thing I regret with Tiki's stepdaughter.
	I didn't ban Facebook, social media, any of that.
	But her generation has self-harm rates that are six times the norm.
	The depression, anxiety rates off the score.
	They're facing a range of psychological issues no other generation of women in modern age have faced.
	And it appears to be correspondent to social media.
	And I know Viva went through it with dealing with, you know, when do you let them access or not access it?
	If I had to go back and do it all over again?
	I would move out to the woods and shut off all social media.
	We'll raise them like Hannah at some level.
	But it would be better than what the world they faced.
	I mean, they're being sexualized by the time they're 11 or 12. I remember I knew it was going to be a bad sign because when she was at Malibu High School...
	She's in 7th grade and half the 12th grade boys had liked her on Facebook.
	I'm like, this isn't going to work out.
	So how do you deal with that in the modern age?
	Are you going to let them have access to modern culture?
	Things like Disney and these films bombarding these messages constantly.
	Little YouTube videos are sitting around, flipping around, bombarding them with these messages.
	Schools now bombarding them with messages.
	How do you protect their minds in the current manipulative space?
	Yukons.
	You can't protect their minds.
	I think that there are two problems, right?
	So the first one is, of course, left-wing messaging, which, thankfully, young people are generally skeptical of being lectured at.
	My daughter, when she was 11, she came home and was like, Dad, I'm gay.
	It's like, okay.
	What did she think about?
	You know, Dad, I'm a lesbian.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And a few months later, she kind of, I can't even remember what the thing was, but she'd come into the kitchen while I was making the dinner that evening, which I don't normally do.
	And she was like, I don't understand this thing about, it was left-wing LGBT ideology.
	She was like, I don't understand this.
	This doesn't make sense.
	I was like, that's right.
	It doesn't make sense.
	And she was like, huh.
	And she walked off.
	And then a couple of weeks later, a couple of months later, we were on the, you know, just a walk around the forest, local forest.
	And she was like, I'm not gay.
	You know, I'm not gay.
	I like this boy at school.
	And I was like, ah, shit.
	It's even worse.
	You know, God, no, just go back to being a lesbian.
	You know?
	But the point is, I think that the trick is to not be the moralizing...
	Brow beater, right?
	I wasn't giving her anything to revolt against.
	And she was just like, wait, that doesn't make sense.
	You know, no, no, that's nonsense.
	You know, I like Frank over there or whatever.
	You know, it's like, okay, fine, whatever.
	You know, Jesus.
	Now, my wife is literally like a Victorian school mom when it comes to her spending time with boys, so it's okay.
	She's not allowed.
	So that's the first thing.
	That's the only good advice I have, I think, for parents.
	It's not that you can't challenge it.
	It's in the way that you challenge it.
	And the better thing is to provide the good example and say, well, I don't agree with that and this is why.
	You do as you want, you know.
	And so don't make them feel on the defensive whenever you're challenging this thing, because I think that a lot of the time they're not invested in the ideology, right?
	And so they'll be like, yeah, no, that's kind of, that's crap.
	I don't like it, right?
	And so they'll get over it themselves.
	But the other problem is social media.
	Now, social media is not the same as being preached out by a left-wing ideologue.
	Social media is about addiction and influence.
	And so I'm actually a total tyrant about mobile phones, and none of my children have a mobile phone.
	None of my children have access to social media.
	And if I caught them with a mobile phone and social media, I would take it away immediately.
	And people are always like, well, when are you going to let them have a mobile phone?
	It's like, well, I don't know.
	The same age I'm going to let them have heroin, actually.
	You know, because it's a deeply addictive and destructive form of addiction.
	And so you tell me what age they should have heroin and that's the age that they can have a mobile phone.
	And so basically they can have one when they leave home and I'm no longer in control of their lives to any degree.
	But no, I'm a total tyrant about it.
	But honestly, I think I'm doing the right thing.
	I think that's the right thing to do.
	It's a tough...
	I'm, in some sense, not a tyrant at all, but very, very tolerant.
	And it's difficult for me to say, get off your devices when they know that I'm on mine probably eight and a half hours a day on my phone and whatever.
	Can I tell you that?
	You're the dad.
	True, but being a hypocrite of a dad...
	It will allow for a certain form of even harsher rebellion where they're going to justify their rebellion by saying that my dad's a hypocrite.
	And therefore, I'm going to go find it somewhere where it's not going to be supervised and I'm going to go harder into exploring this cesspool of the interwebs than I would have otherwise.
	Possibly.
	But the argument I would advance is it's in the same way as smoking and drinking.
	Like, I wouldn't let my children smoke and drink, even if I smoke and drink.
	And they'll say, why can't I do this?
	Because you're not an adult.
	That's why.
	This is an addictive substance.
	You're not old enough to be able to manage your own life yet.
	And so I can do this because I am.
	And when you're old enough, then you will.
	So you can treat it like a rite of passage rather than treat them as if they're your intellectual and moral equal, which is, again, another, like...
	It's another left-wing presupposition, actually, that we should actually accept the moral arguments from our own children.
	It's like, no, I'm sorry, they don't understand.
	They're not old enough.
	I'm not going to engage with that.
	I'm actually going to appeal to the more conservative view of the hierarchical authority.
	It is because I say it is, and I'm the one who sets the moral order of the house.
	And so this isn't even up for debate.
	I can use a mobile phone.
	I can drink and I can smoke.
	You can't because you're a child.
	When you are setting the moral order of your own house, well, then that'll be different.
	And you'll get to make the mistakes.
	You'll be responsible for your own decisions because you will be an adult.
	But when you're not an adult, you don't.
	And again, I realize it's very old-fashioned sounding, but I think I'm right to do it.
	But Carl, I'll just say this.
	If I'm your kid, though, I'm going to say, well, okay, the rationale for not pushing back too hard on certain ideological things is you don't want them to pull back too hard.
	But that seems incompatible with this philosophy, which is, I'm pushing too hard on the dad, and I'm going to tell you what's going to go on here, but not what to think.
	And I understand the argument.
	One, I'm telling you what to do, not what to think.
	And we'll discuss ideas, but we will not discuss behavior that I set for the house.
	I just know what I was like as a kid, and I would be rebelling.
	But boy, howdy, against your method of parenting.
	And it's, again, we...
	We'll all learn from our own mistakes, but I think a lot of parenting is grey zone material anyhow.
	Yeah, it totally is.
	And I have no doubt that when she's 18, she will get social media, but what can I do?
	But in the meantime, at least I will be able to say, because recently in the UK, there was a young girl, she was 14, who hung herself, hanged herself, committed suicide, because she had spent all...
	They, on Instagram, looking at models who are unbelievably attractive, getting incredibly depressed about herself and the way she looked, and she ended up killing herself.
	And so it's like, right, okay, when you're an adult, you can rebel all you want.
	And I'll say, okay, well, it's your phone, your life.
	You know, you're an adult now.
	I'm not your, you know, I'm not your, your, uh, steward.
	I don't, I don't, you know, control you.
	You're an adult now.
	I'm not in charge of the decisions you make.
	You bear the responsibility for yourself.
	All I can do is say, I gave you, I think what I think is a good example.
	And I protected you from dangers when you were young, you know?
	So it may well be that they rebel and they may have to learn sharp lessons themselves, but hopefully the lessons won't be so sharp that they'd be like, Oh, actually he did have a point with that.
	You know?
	So I went, I tried it out and it's like, Oh.
	Yeah, that went badly.
	Maybe he was right.
	Which do you fear worse?
	Them getting into trouble now or them using it as an excuse to get into trouble later?
	Exactly.
	And I fear the now.
	I mean, I would if my kids were young.
	Especially in an age where you have TikTok and Amazon selling people suicide packages.
	Telling them it's fun.
	Selling transitioning drugs over the internet.
	Yes, pedophile.
	Constantly using this to target people.
	It happened to my nieces and nephews.
	As soon as they had any Facebook pages, when they were young, they were being targeted.
	It's just not a place that is safe, given their mind.
	And I'll trust their mind at 18 with being angry at being repressed at 14 more than I trust what they're going to do at 14. Yeah, I mean, exactly.
	Okay, they can rebel and go a bit crazy when they're first in university or whatever.
	And when they've made their mistakes, I'll explain to them why I thought there was mistakes.
	But while I have it in my power to prevent this sort of terrible stuff from happening, I'm just going to err on the side of caution.
	Carl, I could keep you here all day and all night, but I know it's five hours later there, and that's a good place to end, I think, on some wholesome parenting advice.
	Someone had said, you caught me off guard with your answer to the women sleeping with men.
	I would have only added there, your way of viewing it is one way.
	I would just say, what it reveals is that men are just disgusting horned dogs.
	And they'll just have sex with, you know, they'll have sex because men are just biologically different and want to just go and sex, sex, sex.
	But they don't have a fear of disease.
	If you have a fear of disease, it'll keep you honest and it'll keep you moral.
	What would your nan have said?
	She would have said, men are disgusting horned dogs.
	Like, she knew.
	All of the, you know, like, again, I saw this, again, it was one of these young women being like, no one told me that if I started an OnlyFans, no man would date me.
	And I'm like, that's because you didn't ask your grandmother.
	Your grandmother would have told you, just instantly, don't do it, you'll never find a husband.
	She would have known because this is what the traditional morality was for.
	It was based on trial and error.
	It's a collection of an accumulated wisdom through experience, through generations upon generations.
	And if there's one thing that women have learned, it's that men are disgusting.
	And I don't disagree with them.
	They are.
	If left to their natural devices, if you give them, yeah, okay, they are.
	So let's take that as a truth and let's accept it.
	Fantastic.
	Carl, where can people find you?
	But I think they know where to find you.
	Yeah, just search on YouTube or Rumble for Podcasts of the Lotus Eaters.
	We broadcast on Rumble live at 1pm every day British time, Monday to Friday.
	Or if you use YouTube, you can go Podcasts of the Lotus Eaters on both platforms.
	You can search for us.
	Or you can just go straight to the website, which is lotuscees.com.
	We stream to the website as well.
	We've got plenty of wasting it.
	LotusEaters.com.
	It's already in the description, but I'll put the links up.
	Carl, stick around.
	Robert, stick around.
	Everyone in the chat, I got all the super chats.
	I've taken pictures.
	I'll read them on Locals tomorrow.
	I don't want to do it now during the streams.
	And I can't bring them up easily enough.
	But this is amazing.
	Let's do this again if you're game.
	I would love to.
	Stick around.
	We'll see our problem.

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