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June 20, 2022 - Viva & Barnes

02:18:45

Live with Taylor Silverman - Viva Frei Live!

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	Dylan Sharpe says on the topic of censorship and having two Canadians in the House, can we get their thoughts on Bill C-11 and how it'll change media and how it could be a template for blue states to follow?
	It's a template to turn Canada into a China or North Korea.
	The Bill C-11, in the absolute nuttiest of nutshells, is regulating the internet the way the government already regulates television and radio.
	So they want to subject...
	They said initially streaming and big platforms online to be governed by the Canada Broadcast Act, which imposes Canadian content requirements, fines if you don't comply with it.
	They want to impose that on the internet to force YouTube and social media to suppress or promote content based on its Canadian content criteria.
	It is nothing other than a disguised attempt to re-establish a flailing legacy media.
	On a platform where they are getting crushed by others based on their merit.
	That's all that it is.
	It's crazy when you have like big tech fighting the Canadian government against this bill and you have Washington Post fighting Canada on this bill.
	It just shows you how horrible it really is.
	You got YouTube is fighting, is complaining about it.
	Everyone is.
	But then you get Bell Canada coming and testifying for the liberals.
	Oh, we need this.
	We got to protect Canadian culture from the guy who says we don't have culture and we don't have a Canadian culture.
	Justin Trudeau said, There is no Canadian culture.
	That's crazy.
	Because you got, was it Tim Hortons?
	Is that what it's called?
	Poutine.
	We got maple syrup, man.
	70% of the global exports.
	That's right.
	We got fishing.
	We got hunting.
	We have sari.
	We got a boot.
	We got a boot.
	We've got a Canadian culture.
	But they only care about it when they can tax you for it.
	But I mean, in all seriousness, you know, sari and a boot are literally Canadian culture.
	It's a cultural phenomenon.
	Poutine.
	It's called Tim Hortons, right?
	Tim Hortons was the famous hockey player, died in a drunk driving car accident.
	Most people don't know that, but it became a chain.
	And the Tim Hortons, no apostrophe on it, also another part of Canadian heritage because French laws in Quebec don't allow or didn't allow at the time the apostrophe.
	And so Tim Hortons didn't want to have to have two brandings, so they just eliminated the apostrophe.
	Oh, wow.
	You have language police.
	You most certainly do.
	Office de la langue française, the OLF, the language police.
	They come and make sure if you have an apostrophe, you better have a trademark, a registered trademark.
	Yes!
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Remove people, Winston.
	There's food on the floor, and the dog is very much interested.
	You want the food?
	Okay.
	Say goodbye.
	Goodbye, everybody.
	I am your overlord, Winston.
	Thank you for tuning in today.
	It will be a glorious show.
	Okay.
	Oh!
	Good afternoon, people.
	It's afternoon.
	And sorry for the intro.
	It's a little repetitive.
	But I couldn't find something that would not make people want to puke in their mouths first thing in the morning on a Monday.
	And it also allows me to correct one potential inaccuracy about what I said there.
	Apparently it's no longer the OLF in Quebec, the language police, which used to stand for Office de la langue française.
	Apparently now it's the OQLF, Office Québécoise de la langue française.
	And I suspect it's because the people who really speak the right French, the proper French in France, didn't like that the people in Quebec were purporting to be the language police.
	So you got, I suspect it has to be the OQLF, Office Québécoise de la langue française.
	And in France, Ironically enough, I don't even think they have the OFLF, Office Francaise de la langue française.
	Good morning, everyone.
	A new week, and it's going to be an interesting week.
	This show is going to be very interesting.
	So I was on Timcast last week, drove down Wednesday, 10 straight hours.
	It was about 900 and change, about 1,000 kilometers.
	In fact, it would be 1,000 kilometers given detours.
	I drove down because, for anybody who doesn't know, flying out of Quebec these days, flying out of Canada is a risky proposition because you never know when you're going to get to your destination.
	There was the guy from Barstool Sports who had an experience coming out of Pearson's Airport, Toronto's Airport.
	He said he's never coming back to Canada again.
	Canceled flights, rerouted flights.
	I said, I'm not even going to take a chance.
	First of all, I don't like not being in control of my method of transportation.
	If I want to get up at four in the morning and leave, I want to have a vehicle to do it.
	I don't like other people driving me in a plane or in a car, but at least I have a car license so I can drive my own car.
	I decided to drive down to avoid any potential problems.
	It's a guaranteed five hours if you fly, but it could be 12 hours if you fly, whereas it's a guaranteed 10 hours if you drive.
	Pretty much regardless if you can drive indefinitely and pee while driving.
	Uh-oh, I've said too much now.
	Get down there Wednesday night.
	Thursday, go for a hike.
	Meet Chris Pavlosky from Rumble with Barnes.
	Discuss things.
	Get on the show.
	And then drive back the Friday.
	I have a friend who was also traveling to the United States.
	Text me, my flight's been canceled.
	I don't know when I'm getting home or how I'm getting home.
	Oh, Pantelis, by the way.
	I think he tweeted this.
	So the decision to drive proved to be the right one.
	And it's the absolute state of Canada.
	Fly in and fly out at your own risk.
	And then you got this guy, this professor at University of Ottawa, tweeting out that he was flying in on Southwest Airlines.
	And there's a stewardess who's not wearing a mask on the flight.
	Flying into Canada, and he thought it was appropriate to take three pictures of this young stewardess, post it to social media, ostensibly for the purposes of getting her fired.
	You know, it might be worth viewing the tweets.
	Let's just go see the tweets.
	Oh, here, we're on Twitter already.
	Why not?
	Post a picture of an unsuspecting flight attendant, ostensibly for the purposes of getting her fired.
	Well, I guess I actually have to show you the picture because I got swiftly blocked by this individual.
	Hey, United, why are you breaking the law?
	Masks are required on all flights out of Canada.
	Your flight attendant isn't wearing one.
	Fire her.
	I'm going to put her face on social media.
	First of all, I'm not sure you're allowed taking pictures of people on an airplane to post them to social media.
	I might be wrong.
	Your flight attendant isn't wearing one.
	This is UA3737 in Ottawa right now.
	Tagging the RCMP...
	RCMPGRC Police.
	That's Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
	Gendarme Royale Canadienne Police, I think.
	Transport.
	CBC Politics.
	This is the political permission slip to act on your delusional, psychotic...
	Fantasies of exacting revenge on anybody you disagree with.
	Tagging the RCMP as if they don't have better things to deal with.
	Tagging CBC Politics who probably doesn't have anything better to deal with and will jump on this story.
	I don't think they did, in fairness to them.
	So I just simply tweet out, are you seriously trying to get a woman fired from her job?
	Or was this intended to be satirical and mock Justin Trudeau's unscientific Canadian mask mandates?
	Because as if we don't already have enough problems flying in Canada, make more problems.
	This is my tweet.
	I'm not calling him names.
	I'm not doing anything mean.
	I was blocked.
	Let me see if we can see the time here.
	11.16 is when I tweeted that.
	I was blocked within 11.16.
	11.20.
	I was blocked within four minutes of my relatively innocuous, relatively innocent tweet.
	But this is it.
	We have travel problems in and out of Canada.
	This individual, who seems to be a professor at University of Ottawa, thinks it's appropriate to...
	Effectively, if that's not doxing, I'm not sure what is.
	Take a picture of a woman, of a person.
	Gender doesn't matter.
	Doing her job, trying to get her fired seemingly, in fairness to this pathological individual, in the subsequent thread that he had with himself, he said, apparently it's not her fault.
	She's been misinformed by United Airlines.
	Pathological.
	But this is the world in which we are living.
	People feel empowered to try to ruin the lives of others abusively, maliciously, and so much so, they tag the police and they tag CBC CBC, you should be proud.
	I'm sure he's one of your watchers.
	Okay.
	Today's show is going to be phenomenally interesting.
	Like, controversial where things are not controversial.
	Controversial just by having the discussion.
	We're not going to be making any edgy jokes.
	We're not going to be making any...
	Nasty, snide comments.
	We're going to have an open discussion about something that if you asked most people, they would say it shouldn't even be an element of discussion.
	Let me just go back to the poll that I'm running currently on the Twitters.
	It's about transgender athletes, biological male athletes, competing in female sports, biological female sports.
	Coming at an opportune time, I guess, because...
	I met this individual, Taylor Silverman, at TimCast.
	Hadn't heard of her story in particular.
	I've heard of Leah Thomas.
	I've heard of the track athletes in Ohio.
	We've heard about a number of cases.
	We heard about the UFC fighter who, you know, biological male transition, cracked the skull of a female competitor.
	I hadn't heard about this story.
	And talking to her, I said, do you want to come on and discuss this?
	This is an interesting story.
	What you're going through is interesting.
	And she said, yes.
	The debate, the discussion.
	Can be summarized as such.
	The trans athlete debate can be resolved by one question.
	On average, or among the athletic elite, do you think biological males have a competitive or athletic advantage over biological females in most sports?
	If yes, the debate is over.
	If you say no, the debate is over.
	Does it?
	Now, I'm sure the poll is like 90 some odd percent.
	Yes versus no.
	And then maybe it won't be.
	It'll be like 90% and 10% don't want to get involved in the discussion.
	That's what's on the menu for today.
	And it comes at an interesting time where the international swimming body recently just announced yesterday that they're implementing a rule that biological males who transition to female will not be allowed to compete in athletic swimming.
	In women's swimming sports, if they've gone through any part of male puberty.
	I'll pull up that article a little later, but it's an interesting way of doing this.
	We'll talk about it with Taylor.
	Something that most people don't know, like when an athlete gets caught for juicing, for taking steroids, they get banned for life sometimes, a la Lance Armstrong.
	Not because they got caught for breaking the rules or they're cheaters or they're liars and you can't trust them again.
	That's what I initially thought.
	They get banned for life because through enough use, unlawful use of steroids and performance-enhancing drugs, you can get to a level that even if you stop taking the drugs, you're at that level and it's an unfair advantage over all others who did not get to that level through performance-enhancing drugs.
	And that's the idea of puberty, male puberty, in that as far as biology goes, Between a biological male who transitions to female and a biological female, the biological female has never gone through male puberty and therefore has never had what would otherwise be substances that would be performance-enhancing substances for females or in athletic sports.
	So it's an interesting rule to put in place.
	If you've gone through any part of male puberty, you can't compete in biological female sports.
	My concern, my thought is that this might push younger people.
	To insist or demand of their parents or care practitioners or doctors or, in Quebec, the government, to authorize hormone transition therapy at an even younger age so that they don't have this issue, this rule to abide by if their aspiration is to get into competitive sports.
	We'll get there in all of that.
	Where I wanted to start today's stream off was actually something of an accident.
	It will dovetail into the subject matter of the day.
	In terms of inclusivity on social media platforms.
	Before I even get there, first of all, how is the audio?
	How is the video?
	And standard disclaimers.
	Superchats, like this one.
	Sent you a gift.
	Can't wait for you to go pick it up.
	Just me, Nicole.
	I gotta go to the post office.
	Okay.
	Booyah!
	Thank you.
	Superchats.
	YouTube takes 30% of all Super Chats.
	If you don't like that, we are simultaneously streaming on Rumble.
	Rumble has these things, the equivalent, called Rumble Rants.
	They take 20%, so better for the creator, better for the platform.
	But if you want to support me, Barnes, the best place, vivabarneslaw.locals.com.
	I'm on Patreon, but it's so minimal and subscribe star.
	VivaBarnesLaw.locals.com.
	Best bang for the buck.
	Lots of exclusive content if you are a supporter.
	Lots of content for the community.
	If you're not, good place to be.
	I wanted to start this off with breaking down what I think to be the highlights in Elon Musk's leaked meeting with the employees of Twitter, the Zoom meeting that he had with an employee of Twitter, where they were effectively interviewing Elon Musk on his...
	Anticipated purchase of Twitter.
	And I put together the three highlights and I put it together as a video.
	And then I accidentally published it.
	So anybody who got a video from Viva Clips this morning that was initially entitled June 20, 2022.
	Those were the three highlights from the interview that I want to walk through now.
	Just to highlight what I think are the three most important elements of that leaked Zoom meeting.
	Above and beyond, or I guess secondary to the fact that the Zoom meeting was leaked itself.
	Somehow, gosh darn love or hate Project Veritas, although I think you have to love them more than you hate them.
	Give them credit for getting...
	It's encouraging.
	In as much as the world seems like it's going bat-plop crazy, what's it, Gava, Ghana?
	What was the bat poo from Ace Ventura Part 2?
	In as much as the world sometimes feels like it's going bat-plop crazy, the fact that there are people out there who are sufficiently frustrated, they don't feel comfortable to say it publicly, but they feel compelled to do something about it confidentially or anonymously, should be encouraging for everyone.
	So somehow, Project Veritas gets the link to the meeting.
	It was a 54-minute interview.
	Unedited, publishes it.
	And it was fun to watch.
	It's fun to watch people when they don't know that they're going to be watched by the entire world.
	But from my perspective, it's also just fun watching people in these corporate settings.
	My major first takeaway from all of this, I cannot stand the environment.
	I cannot stand the pseudo-politeness.
	Everybody has to be on their best behavior.
	They have to thank everyone for their time.
	I don't know if it makes me a jerk or just a cranky old man.
	I cannot stand the pseudo-pretentious, artificial, saccharine politeness of all these meetings.
	People are not loose and natural, although Elon is pretty close to loose and natural.
	Everybody's prim and proper, and they're so polite.
	They've got to thank everyone for their time and phrase their questions nicely and polite.
	It might be one of the reasons why I could not stand.
	The political environment of the big law firm.
	But the cranky old man I got in the fakery.
	It makes me...
	No, like, just be real.
	Just be real.
	It's just a conversation.
	You don't have to say thank you.
	Look, thank you for your time.
	Thanks for being here.
	Like, watching the congressional hearings?
	My God, is it a circle pat on the back of pomposity and self-gratifying?
	So important.
	Anyway.
	So getting past that, getting past cranky pants, realist, fakery, platitudes can be very annoying.
	Getting past that, the three highlights that I took away from that leaked meeting, above and beyond, kudos for Project Veritas for getting it.
	Everyone out there, remember, govern yourself as though you are always being recorded secretly for public disclosure.
	If you do that...
	You'll keep your schmeckle in your pants when you should.
	You'll be nice when you should.
	And you might actually just stop and reflect, even if I'm not being recorded by a proverbial eye in the sky, we are all being observed by a cosmic eye in the sky.
	And I'm not saying God in a big G sense.
	I'm just saying karma, cosmos, or just living with dignity, even if nobody is, in fact, always watching us.
	Okay.
	So let's bring this in because, sorry, I should have probably told you, Taylor Silverman is coming in at 12.30.
	I wanted to make sure to get the crowd ready, warmed up, before she comes in.
	And I wanted to cover this because it does, in fact, dovetail, if that's the word, into the subject matter of the day.
	Inclusivity.
	Oh, my back hurts.
	Okay, let's do this here.
	Let's do this.
	The three highlights are here.
	Unedited, and I accidentally published it, so now I'm just going to use it as my As my notes guideline, starting from the beginning, I think these are in chronological order that they occurred in the meeting, but I was editing it off my iPhone, so it's possible they might not be in the right sequence, but I think they are.
	Highlight number one, which I think is very important.
	And as we think about, obviously, the product and the service and serving customers all around the world, clearly it's critical and essential for us to serve diverse communities.
	And all people, as you said earlier.
	So inclusion and diversity is obviously core, essential to our work at Twitter, both our employees and the customers that we serve.
	You've been vocal on a variety of different topics and issues that relate to inclusion and diversity.
	Can you talk about both your views and also your commitment to creating a diverse and inclusive workplace and also a service where everyone can feel included and saved?
	Do you understand, by the way, they talk about diversity.
	And inclusiveness.
	This is what drives me nuts.
	And if I were in Elon's shoes, which I'm not, and maybe there's a reason for which I'm not in Elon's shoes, maybe it's because I would have said this.
	You talk about diversity and inclusion, and it seems you include all forms of diversity and inclusion, except for the diversity and inclusion of ideology, differing political ideology.
	If one were to look...
	Let me remove this for a second.
	If one were to look at an environment and say or see, oh, it seems to be 90% male.
	It seems to be 90% white.
	It seems to be 90% anything.
	You would say there's a diversity problem here by their own standards.
	You would say there's a diversity problem here.
	We only seem to have white people.
	We only seem to have men.
	And that's not very diverse.
	Well, why does diversity and inclusion, according to this individual who...
	Works for Twitter and is interviewing Elon Musk not include ideological diversity and inclusion.
	If I look at Twitter and it just so happens that it is 90% plus leftist-leaning ideology, is there not absence of diversity and inclusion for, say, conservative perspectives, for, say, libertarian perspectives?
	Why is it that this diversity and inclusion only includes the most...
	Easily objectifiable of traits of diversity and inclusion.
	Why is that?
	And even among the diversity and inclusion that they have, okay, so it's not 90% male, it's not 90% white, it's diverse and inclusive, except as relates to ideology.
	What impact do you think that has, Madam Interviewer, with respect to the product and the environment that you put out and host?
	But alas, I'm not Elon, he is not me, and I'm not worth...
	$100 billion.
	I'm a cranky realist in a basement talking to everyone else out there.
	Let's hear what his answer is, though.
	Yeah, I mean, well, to be clear, you know, if everyone talks about Twitter as a whole, there's 8 billion people in the world.
	There's sort of, I'm told there's 200 million daily users of Twitter.
	That's a 7.8 billion person gap.
	So I think we really want to have, you know, I don't know, at least a billion people on Twitter, maybe more.
	As many people as we can possibly get on Twitter.
	So that, I think, is the most inclusive definition of inclusiveness.
	It's like all humans.
	So, you know, that's important.
	Pause it there, actually.
	Pause it there.
	He might have the more diplomatic way of saying it.
	And he might be subtly highlighting the problem.
	Well, you only have 200 million people using the platform.
	There's 8 billion people out there.
	We want to have as many people as possible.
	Rubbing it in her face said, if you had a billion people, chances are you'd have 200 to 300 million people whose ideologies don't align with your own.
	As if to rub it in her face to say, well, when she says, well, we want to make people feel safe.
	And so to make people feel safe, we want diversity and inclusion, except as relates to ideas and politics and philosophies that make some people feel unsafe.
	Those have to be excluded for the purposes of inclusion.
	Maybe Elon is trying to bring out that point, and maybe he's doing it more eloquently than I would have in a manner that will receive a better response than I would have.
	I would have just taken it one step further and say, yeah, you want a billion people and you want diverse thoughts, diverse opinions.
	That is diversity and inclusion, not just token aspects of people's identity that you can reduce to color, religion, and gender.
	You want diversity of thought, and that is probably the most important type of diversity and inclusion.
	Not excluding people based on their thought.
	But okay, maybe it's written into what Elon says, but it's an important point.
	Get as many people on it.
	It can't be more inclusive than everyone.
	Of course, they would respond and say, well, everyone, some people make us feel unsafe, so we need to exclude in the name of inclusion.
	That's the absurdity of the position.
	I'd like to hear them say it, though.
	From a company standpoint, you know, I believe in a sort of strict meritocracy.
	So whatever, you know, whoever's doing great work, great, you know, they get more responsibility and authority.
	And that's that.
	That was part one.
	A strict meritocracy.
	Can you hear the collective heads exploding of the people at this platform on Twitter who, according to other videos leaked by Project Veritas, treat Twitter like effectively a communist entity that doesn't have to worry about profits, doesn't have to worry about bottom line, is ideologically driven.
	You succeed on meritocracy.
	That entire part of the equation gets destroyed.
	You don't put out a good product.
	You don't work well.
	You don't actually do what you're supposed to do in a company.
	You will not succeed.
	You might actually get fired.
	Imagine that.
	You might actually get fired if you don't do well what you're there to do well.
	Meritocracy.
	The greatest threat to a great many people.
	It's the greatest threat to Canadian media.
	Meritocracy.
	Those who succeed on their own merit.
	CBC doesn't like that.
	Canadian media doesn't like that.
	And that is why they need government assistance, government censorship, government regulation to succeed because they would otherwise fail on a meritocracy.
	And a lot of people on social media want the same thing.
	If it were diversity of thought and diversity of philosophy, those that would succeed would be, in theory, the ones that succeed on their own merits.
	But there's a reason why they have to suppress censor and kick off platforms, and it's not always because of alleged community guidelines violations.
	I wanted to talk about content moderation, go back to a number of the things that you said earlier.
	So this is one I'll take verbatim.
	So you've spoken a lot about the importance of free speech.
	Let's start with the U.S., where we have a strong tradition around this.
	And you touched on this earlier.
	A lot of what's called awful but awful speech is allowed here in the United States, right?
	Animal abuse, footage, doxing, videos of sexual violence, et cetera.
	So allowing this type of content obviously could cause harm and make Twitter unusable for the broad audience that you're trying to reach.
	Excuse me, ma 'am, not to be rude.
	First of all, none of the three things you just said are awful but lawful.
	They're just unlawful.
	Period.
	Some people argue over the doxing.
	Doxing's not unlawful.
	Public disclosure of a private fact is unlawful.
	What else was I going to say?
	Targeted harassment is unlawful.
	So when you say X lives at Y, public disclosure of a private fact and targeted harassment, it is unlawful.
	The first and the third are obviously unlawful.
	So bad examples of awful but lawful.
	How about you use awful but lawful in the sense that everyone understands it, which is...
	Relating to the topic that we're going to broach today.
	But she takes these examples and says you've got to make everyone feel safe.
	It would make it unusable.
	Does she not know what's on Twitter right now as it stands?
	I was listening to an episode of Howard Stern.
	I'm not even going to mention what it was.
	This was a long time ago.
	This was two years ago.
	And Howard Stern mentioned an individual's Twitter handle.
	And I went to it.
	And I didn't realize that this stuff was on Twitter.
	I know that there's other stuff on Twitter that people have sued for the removal of, and Twitter doesn't remove it, so talk about awful but lawful when it's actually just unlawful and Twitter itself doesn't want to take it down for whatever the reason.
	There's nasty stuff.
	I mean, if you're into it, all the better.
	Consenting adults, do whatever you want, you know, so long as it doesn't affect anybody else.
	But for her to pretend that Twitter is some pristine entity where it's all just daisies and kittens, I can give you some handles on Twitter.
	It's not daisies and kittens.
	Anyways, but moving on.
	What is your approach to this type of content that's legal but problematic as it relates to people actually using the service?
	How do you think about this tension?
	As I said earlier, I think we should allow people to say what they want, post what they want, within the bounds of the law.
	But that's different from them being able to reach people who don't want to be reached with that content.
	So if that content is offensive, then those people will simply stop using Twitter.
	Ding, ding, ding, Elon.
	And ding, ding, ding, everyone else out there.
	I don't use the word snowflake, but other people would in this context.
	If you don't like Dave Chappelle, don't watch the Netflix special.
	If you find something offensive, don't watch it.
	The idea that someone could say, I find it offensive that you're having this conversation with someone else, you are no longer living your own life for yourself.
	You're telling me how to live mine.
	And your freedom ends where mine begins.
	So ding, ding, ding.
	Sign up for Twitter.
	I don't want to see X, Y, Z. Boom.
	It won't come to you.
	Leave it alone.
	Now, if it's people breaking the law, if it's people committing actual acts of violence, If it's people doing actually illegal things, then yes, that's a public order concern.
	But I don't want to see people discuss what we're going to discuss today.
	Check it off.
	You won't see it.
	If you don't want to see it, you shouldn't have to see it.
	We all agree on that.
	I think we should allow people to say what they want, post what they want, within the bounds of the law.
	But that's different from...
	Very much Rumble-esque principle.
	So if that content is offensive, then those people will simply stop using Twitter.
	So it's important to make Twitter as attractive as possible.
	And really that means not showing people content that they would find painful or offensive or even frankly content they would find boring is not good.
	So we don't even want them to see boring content.
	Always the businessman Elon is.
	Unless we were talking about TikTok last night.
	And TikTok does a great job of making sure you are not bored.
	Yeah, it does a little too good of a job making sure you're not bored, a la like a casino type environment.
	All right, let's get to the last one.
	But yeah, you don't want to see it?
	Don't see it.
	In your preferences.
	And then let the people who want to have the discussions among adults have the discussion among adults.
	I mean, it does feel like ADD, but like next level.
	But TikTok does a great job of making it up or...
	I mean, I do find some of the videos offensive, I think, but they're not boring.
	So the...
	Dude, I'm making a shirt.
	Offensive, but not boring.
	How do we ensure people have content that they find entertaining and engaging and interesting such that they want to keep using Twitter and use it more?
	That's essential to the growth of the service.
	I cut that clip too.
	I suggest that you have to be authenticated in order to use Twitter.
	It would just be a prioritizing, authenticated This is where I materially disagree with Elon on this.
	It needs to be much more expensive to have a troll army.
	So that only, you know, extremely powerful or politically connected political action committees could afford to have a bot army or a troll army, and that it looks more legitimate because it has gone through some additional authentication process at Twitter that only the rich can afford.
	I disagree with that.
	Making it more expensive might not actually resolve the problem.
	It might just exacerbate it.
	Because all that you'll end up doing is having the campaigns with a billion dollars be able to afford a bot army, a troll army that looks legitimate and that can actually influence things if and only if because they have the means to do it, but the rabble don't.
	So there's another solution to it, which we might discuss it another day.
	But right now, people, I see Taylor in the backdrop.
	That's Elon.
	Sorry, I'm going to bring him out.
	Without further ado, let me read three super chats before we get going.
	Check out your fellow Canadian Derek from More Plates, More Dates on YouTube.
	He did a long, in-depth science-based video about trans athletes.
	I will check it out.
	Screenshot.
	Jen, Viva, just look at that.
	Your screen isn't fuzzy.
	Oh, okay.
	Sorry.
	I don't know what that was.
	And cranky.
	No, I might be cranky.
	Okay.
	Now, with that said, people.
	And before I bring in Taylor, let me refresh and see if we're still green.
	We are.
	We're still green.
	So let's see if and when.
	I don't think it's going to happen because we're going to have a meaningful, thoughtful discussion.
	But most importantly, we're going to hear Taylor's experience in this, what some people would call an upside-down world, where when a female athlete is forced to compete with a biological male and then complains about it afterwards and says, Divisions were created because of genetic or biological differences that are now being broached.
	And me complaining about it makes me the target of online harassment.
	We have to hear this experience.
	Taylor, get ready.
	I'm bringing you in.
	Three, two, one.
	Hi, Viva.
	Can you hear me okay?
	I've got a little mic on my headphone.
	You're perfect.
	I'm going to let the chat tell us if our audio levels are good.
	Chat, audio levels good.
	And if not, you'll let us know sooner than later.
	How do I sound?
	Thank you for having me.
	I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today.
	Thank you for coming.
	I've got to ask you, what book is your camera propped on?
	Oh, this isn't my book.
	Actually, it's a thesaurus, but then there's another one on top.
	I'm at a place, I don't want to get into it.
	No, it's cool, cool.
	I grabbed some random books.
	I thought for a second it might have been like a subliminal message.
	No, it's not actually.
	It's just me placing my camera badly trying to prop it up in a weird way.
	But does it look okay?
	Is that going to bother anybody?
	No, no.
	It's great and your audio is great.
	I should have not put my neuroses out there in the cosmos.
	No, I should have placed a book that actually would have had a message.
	I didn't think of that.
	Next time.
	Viva, her volume is a bit high.
	Is it a bit high?
	No, no, I'll take care of it.
	Let me just go to...
	But of course, I'm not going to let the good...
	Let me rephrase this.
	I'm not going to let the good become the enemy of the dumb.
	I could also take my mic off and switch just to the normal.
	I lowered it a bit.
	Okay, Taylor.
	Elevator pitch, for those who may not know, but I suspect most will because I tweeted it out.
	They might know your story, but the 30,000-foot elevator pitch, before we get into the beginning...
	To get to the present, who are you?
	I am Taylor Silverman.
	I'm a skateboarder.
	I sometimes compete at an AM level.
	I just skateboard for fun, but over the past several years, I found that it's brought me a lot of opportunities to travel, to do contests, and even have different jobs and make money.
	So, yeah, I really love skateboarding.
	If I may ask, and I know it's impolite, but I'm going to do it anyhow because it's relevant.
	How old are you?
	I'm 27 years old.
	I'm not offended at all.
	Everybody already knows this, but I'm very old for a skateboarder.
	Okay, well now, let's just get into a little bit of the beginning, not too much.
	Where are you from?
	I'm from Kalamazoo, Michigan.
	You're from Kalamazoo, Michigan?
	Yeah, not too far from Canada.
	Have you ever heard of a place, there's an expression called Shibugamu in Canada?
	Like, it's like Timbuktu when they say you're from in the middle of nowhere, you're from Shibugamu in Canada.
	Oh, okay.
	Timbuktu, and these are actual places.
	Kalamazoo's an actual place.
	Yeah, a lot of people, when I say I'm from Kalamazoo, giggle and say, that sounds like a made-up place.
	But it's not one of the biggest cities in Michigan, but it's a decent-sized city out here, and I'm really grateful to be from here.
	We have an awesome indoor skate park that I grew up skating, so I feel like it's a good spot.
	How many siblings and what did your parents do, just summarily?
	I don't really want to get too much into family stuff.
	That's like something we've discussed that I think would be better off if I didn't talk about.
	But I love my family.
	I have a supportive family.
	And yeah, I'll leave it at that.
	And what I meant by that only is, when did you get into skateboarding?
	So I got into skateboarding when I was 16 years old.
	And growing up, I had played a whole bunch of different sports.
	And I did like taekwondo as a kid.
	I played soccer as a kid.
	Then I kind of...
	I focused more on basketball and softball for a while and I was a softball pitcher but I knew that once I got into my teen years that after high school or potentially college if I decide to go to college that that would be over and I really wanted something that I could do independently whenever I wanted wherever I wanted so skateboarding appealed to me a lot and I had already snowboarded a little bit so I had a feeling I would like it and Once I got my first skateboard,
	I fell in love with it immediately, and I've been doing it ever since.
	And so you said you competed AM, which means amateur.
	Correct.
	Have you competed?
	I mean, I guess I don't know what it takes to even get to the professional level, but getting there first.
	When did you first start competing, and how do you go from amateur to professional?
	So I'm not at a professional level.
	I've done some contests that are mixed AM and pro, but I...
	I don't really consider myself to be a pro.
	That's something that the media reported in the beginning, but I don't think it's like a crucial part of the story either.
	But I basically started doing local contests after a few years of skateboarding and it was just for fun.
	I would hear about these events in a nearby city and travel out to do them and I realized I was doing pretty good.
	So instead of continuing to do all the local ones, I thought I'd...
	You know, do something a little more challenging and start traveling to some of the bigger contests and the ones that you have to compete in qualifiers in order to be invited to finals.
	And I've done really well in contests.
	I've done really poorly in contests, but every time it's been a good experience and I've met new people, gotten to skate in a new place and challenge myself and see what I'm capable of.
	Before getting into the event at issue, how much had you competed annually?
	How many times a year?
	Like a few times a year for the past several years.
	Every once in a while, it would be a smaller local contest.
	Or there's some in Ann Arbor, Michigan and Detroit, Michigan that are annual that I would participate in.
	And then I would sometimes fly out to California or participate in contests in Florida.
	Yeah, the more I did them, the more I realized they were really positive for me.
	So I came across the Red Bull one just by chance because I happened to be back in my hometown visiting for a short amount of time while I was waiting to finally be able to go on my trip to Israel because it kept getting canceled.
	So a friend of mine mentioned the Red Bull contest and said, you should go over to Detroit and qualify for this.
	And I thought, I don't know, I got a lot going on right now.
	And then they said, well, there's money involved.
	And I said, how much money?
	I'm just kidding.
	Go on.
	It was really exciting, though, to get the opportunity to make some money in a contest, because oftentimes there's no money.
	You want a skateboard and a bag of clothes and a new pair of shoes.
	But because there's money involved, I thought, shoot, I should go see what I can do.
	This almost sounds like the plot of Happy Gilmore, where you have Chubb saying, I thought you wanted to make the big bucks, and Happy Gilmore stops.
	Hey, Chubbs, what kind of big bucks?
	So you're literally, you do this to make it, if you can, to make some money to pay for your trip.
	Setting aside why one would want to travel to Israel at this point in time, I don't know what their requirements are for international travel, but it would deter me.
	So setting that aside, everyone in the chat, to each their own.
	I shouldn't have even mentioned that.
	No, because everyone, the crowd here, everyone knows the restrictions, the requirements in Israel, or at least once upon a time, to have a green pass.
	Some people take issues.
	Yeah.
	Now there's not as much of an issue, but for a while there, I would get something scheduled and then I'd get a call the day before after I packed all my bags and they'd say, you're not going to go tomorrow.
	So it finally happened in March.
	Just either touch your mic.
	I hear some static on your mic.
	Oh, it's probably my hair.
	Let me make it a little looser and see if it'll...
	Is that okay?
	No.
	Unplug it and plug it back in.
	It's crackling.
	Here, let me try to turn it off.
	Okay.
	Can you hear me better if we just go with the regular audio?
	No, now it might be your computer.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah, you want to close out and come back in?
	How do I do that?
	You know what, I'll boot you and then click back in.
	Okay, sounds good.
	Sorry about that.
	Okay, let's see if this works.
	This might not work, no.
	Okay, try it again.
	How are we now?
	It's not StreamYard.
	Well, let me ask.
	Chat, is my audio crackling as well?
	I don't think mine is.
	It's not crackling for me.
	Hold on.
	Let me see.
	Kill the mic on the computer.
	Shut the screen entirely, then click on the link again, and I'll bring you back in.
	Will do.
	Thank you for your patience.
	Don't worry.
	Don't worry.
	Now it looks like she's got a fan halo.
	Basically.
	All right.
	Viva audio, good.
	Okay, good.
	So I think it was actually just...
	Yes, I believe an interface problem on her end.
	It's getting interesting, people.
	We haven't even gotten into the incident, but...
	And yes, I have the questions flagged about injuries because those are one of the points that Tim Poole raised when discussing this and that others have raised.
	Okay, let's see.
	I'll wait for her to get the camera set up.
	Fingers crossed, people.
	Okay.
	Can you hear me?
	That's better.
	You could put in the earpiece now, I think.
	Is it a little better with the earpiece?
	You know what?
	We'll leave well enough alone.
	It's good enough like this.
	Okay, sounds good.
	Okay, so now, where...
	Where were we?
	So you're trying to make money.
	So you hear that there's a local event.
	That wasn't the goal, but it was a great competition.
	And I was really excited that that was something that we had the opportunity to do in this contest.
	But, I mean, I've done all these contests where there's no money involved, so it's not my number one priority.
	I'm not saying it judgmentally whatsoever.
	A trophy.
	There's a recognition for excellence.
	It's basically why anyone does anything.
	They're more on the line than usual.
	So this is a Red Bull event.
	Is there any specific nature to the event?
	I don't know how these things work.
	They have several different contest series.
	This one was the Red Bull Cornerstone, I think best in the Midwest series.
	So they traveled through multiple different states to indoor skate parks and have qualifiers.
	And people who placed in the qualifiers got invites to go to the finals.
	Okay, that's phenomenal.
	And how do the qualifiers work, and over what period of time is this?
	Is this the same weekend, or is this over a series of weeks?
	I only participated in two qualifiers, one of which was the final qualifier at the skate park that the finals were, so it was the same weekend.
	But the first qualifier that I did was in November, and then the finals were in December.
	So it was a few weeks of planning the trip to get out there.
	I did like a little bit of news and media coverage about it before I left.
	Yeah, as you should.
	It's amazing.
	So this is an investment of time, energy.
	You do the November qualifiers.
	How do you finish?
	Is it the winner of the qualifiers that makes it in or like the top three?
	It's top three, but the qualifiers that I participated in, there were only, this was at Modern Skate Park in Detroit.
	There were only two of us who even competed because there were four signed up.
	One of the girls, unfortunately, was injured in warm-ups.
	And then the other girl didn't even show up after signing up.
	So it was just two of us.
	I placed first.
	And then I went on to do the Lincoln-Nebraska qualifier where there were more girls.
	I think there was somewhere between 10 and 12 of us in that qualifier.
	I'm not sure.
	But I placed first in that one as well.
	Okay.
	And is it...
	It's not a race, right?
	So there is a discretionary judging element to the competition.
	Right.
	And skateboarding, it's hard to judge.
	And there's a lot of different factors that go into it.
	And depending on what contest you're at and who's judging you, the outcome could be very different.
	But they go by, you know, your trick selection, your consistency, your style, a lot of different factors.
	It's different than other sports in the sense that you're not.
	Trying to go the fastest or get the most points in a game.
	It's kind of subjective.
	But, I mean, depending on who's judging, different people could win.
	It could go different ways.
	And honestly, at a contest where you're only skating for a couple minutes and showcasing what you can do, the best skater might not land all their tricks and they might not even place.
	And somebody who's an underdog might have a really good run and get the best scores.
	That's what's really fun about the contest is...
	You never really know what's going to happen.
	But in this instance, I was pretty certain that I was competing for second place in the finals.
	And that was, it took away the fun of it a lot.
	So, and we're going to get into two aspects of this.
	One of which is, why did you wait so long before saying anything?
	The other aspect is, in the qualifiers, the individual who beat you, or the individual at issue is Lillian Gallagher.
	Had you ever heard of Lillian before the event?
	No, I had no idea who Lillian was until I arrived at the finals.
	And so in the qualifiers, the one where there were 11 or 12 participants, Lillian was not one of those participants?
	No, Lillian did, I think, two different qualifiers, but they were in different states.
	I'm not sure if Lillian hadn't arrived yet for the qualifiers or just decided to sit that one out, but it was the day of the finals that I was made aware that Lillian would be competing with us.
	Interesting.
	Before I forget, you said Lillian had done qualifiers in different states.
	Is that an attempt to win one of the qualifiers to make it into the finals?
	I believe that...
	Lillian did win a couple of the qualifiers, and for each qualifier that you placed first in, you received $500.
	And so everybody knows also, open invitation to Lillian Gallagher to come on to discuss this, because I reached out to Leah Thomas, but only on Twitter, and I know who is prone to having an open, long-format discussion, at least based on my experience, and who is not.
	Lillian Gallagher would be more than welcome any time, because I'd like to hear the other side of the story.
	Yeah, I wanted to say from the very start, the first interview I did, because I didn't expect this to blow up the way that it did, and I didn't share Lillian's name in the post originally, because I don't want people to go hate on trans competitors.
	Oftentimes, they're just going by what the rules allow them to do, and I...
	Have no idea what it would feel like to be in that position or have people encouraging you to do it.
	So I think that the group that should be held responsible are the contest organizers like Red Bull and like the NCAA, like the Olympic Committee that organizes the Olympics rules.
	So I hope that people can focus on the bigger issue and not take this out on individuals.
	And there's a comment in the chat which I did not know the individuals.
	What do they call it?
	The dead name?
	The original name?
	I'm not getting into these games.
	If an individual wants me to call them by a name, that's fine with me.
	If they want to get into that, I think that transgender people should be respected.
	And this is just an issue of fairness in sports.
	And also, I mean, in my own view, there's a difference between...
	A name is someone's subjective identification regardless.
	You know, someone saying, this is my name, fine.
	Someone compelling me to conjugate and say certain words, then it gets a little different.
	But setting that aside, so Lillian was not in any of the, what are they called, the words of, not trials, but qualifiers that you were in.
	When you first discovered this, the day of the finals, how do you know that Lillian is a transgender athlete at this point?
	Is it everyone knows?
	I, well, I mean, I could tell.
	I didn't want to speak up about it until I knew for sure that Lillian was out.
	I didn't want to out somebody.
	I felt really weird about that.
	It had been posted on social media as something that Lillian was proud of.
	I didn't think that I would be giving away anybody's secret or causing them harm in that sense.
	But, yeah, I mean, I don't want to be rude.
	I don't want to even get into it, but I could tell.
	Okay.
	The question is also, at what point did you know what level of the process this individual was in?
	Like, was it recent?
	Was it from childhood?
	How did you know the details of the stage of this individual for the purposes of determining your own reaction to it?
	Well, I had just looked at their social media, at the social media page briefly to make sure that this wasn't a secret before I said anything or before I reached out to Red Bull.
	But based on the social media, it seemed as though the transition was within the last few years.
	And you're how old at this time?
	This is December 2021.
	At this time, I was 26. I'm now 27. And do you know how old?
	Lillian was?
	I don't remember exactly, but I think like 29 or 30. So just a few years older than me.
	But I'm not exact.
	I just know that a few years older.
	So give or take it, it's just so people can understand the broad...
	The details might be off by a year or two, but not by a decade or two.
	Yeah, I'm younger than this person.
	And that was something a lot of people were criticizing.
	You're old, and you're washed up, and you shouldn't even be in this.
	And I was thinking, the person I'm referring to is older than me.
	We're going to get into those reactions.
	I'm not pulling them up because I don't want to put anyone on blast, but we all know the types of responses you got.
	We're going to get into them.
	So day of the event, what happens?
	You discover this, and what's the mood like?
	Not just in your own mind, but among the other, I'll say biological female athletes, for lack of a better way of qualifying it.
	What's the mood among the competitors?
	Just silence and just go through the motions and too uncomfortable to say anything.
	I had a few people come to me because throughout the contest, throughout our runs, I had some friends there who were saying like, they're just being supportive and they're saying, you know, I think that you won anyway.
	And I was thinking, no, I'm pretty sure I already know.
	Who's on what podium?
	And I think even if we got the exact same scores, I would still be placed in second, similar to how we saw when Riley Gaines and Leah Thomas tied, and they gave Leah the trophy and told Riley to shut up and step aside.
	And then she actually went on the news and spoke up about it.
	But that was just...
	Something that I had kind of accepted was going to be the outcome of that day, and I was trying to focus on the positive things going on in my life.
	I was way too uncomfortable to say anything, and I was worried about what the response could be if I did.
	But I also, it's just a shocking thing.
	You don't prepare for that.
	You don't think about what you would do in that situation.
	I had no idea that was going to happen that day, and I thought, just be a good sport, do your best, have fun, enjoy the event, and then deal with it later.
	I don't want to harp too much on the day of, but I've got to know.
	The event occurs, people you say are silent, sort of uncomfortable, but no one dares say anything.
	Lillian wins the competition.
	Is there an after party?
	Do people hang out?
	Or is it sort of, here's your trophy, here's your check, and everyone goes their own separate ways?
	So Lillian won the competition along with Best Trick, which was another $1,000.
	And I think that there were some after parties, but the contest actually occurred during Hanukkah, so I was not going to any parties.
	I was going back to the house I had rented to do Hanukkah stuff.
	I'm just going to say, someone says, Viva and Taylor look like they are brother and sister.
	We're both Jewish, so I guess we share some answers.
	We're basically related.
	Yeah, we're like cousins or something.
	Your great-great-great-great-great-grandfather Moses was mine.
	It was amazing.
	Probably.
	Something like that.
	So you take off.
	You're not there.
	You don't know if the overall after-party or the celebrations are everyone's cheery, supportive, or people are bitter and take off.
	Even when this happened, I cheered.
	And it was because...
	That's how I act at a contest.
	Whether I agree with the outcome or not, it's just part of how I was raised and being a good sportsman.
	And it took me thinking about it afterwards to realize that this is unfair and this shouldn't be something that I just go along with and stay silent about and clap for everybody because that's how you act at a contest.
	But, yeah, people just cheer and go along with it.
	It's like everybody...
	I'm sure some people agree with it too, or think that it's fair, but there's a lot of people who recognize it's unfair, but they don't want to stir the pot.
	They just want to go on with their day and they don't really consider the people who are being negatively impacted by it.
	And I even put aside myself to try to be nice.
	And I wish that I hadn't done that.
	That's the one thing I regret is not speaking up about this sooner.
	But I'm glad that I did now.
	And I'm just going to go forward and continue to do the right thing and use my voice now.
	Okay.
	And so this is one of the things that you're faulted for.
	This occurred in December 2021.
	The organizer at Red Bull until, what is it?
	Is it May 2022?
	I'm trying to think when the date I actually reached out to them was, because I reached out to them the month prior to me sharing it.
	And no answer.
	It was in April that I reached out to them, but I don't have the dates all in front of me.
	But they didn't respond, and I waited.
	And after a couple of weeks, I started to get really frustrated that they wouldn't even talk to me.
	Then I did actually get a call.
	Once I had finally posted on social media, I made this Instagram post, and I was reached out to by a bunch of news and media.
	So I ended up doing my first interview, and right before that first interview, they called, I think they called the Piers Morgan team, and they also called me.
	Eric, who I had emailed, called me.
	And he said that...
	He wanted to talk to me and he thought it was a really complex issue.
	And he didn't realize, like, I'm like on a schedule.
	I got to get on this call and do all these things that I have on my schedule now.
	So I told him, unfortunately, Eric, you had a lot of time to respond to my email and you didn't.
	And now I'm pretty busy.
	So if you want to talk, then you're going to have to respond to my email and schedule a time to talk to me like I requested in the first place.
	Yeah, I just didn't hear from him after that.
	So that phone call, I didn't have the time to talk to him and he still won't respond to my email.
	But if he responded to my email, I would be more than happy to talk to him.
	But I've requested multiple times now for them to respond to my email and it's not happening.
	So you reached out to them before making your post public.
	And if I may, I mean, I know you've read it, you've heard it.
	I'll just read it real quick.
	I can't share the screen.
	Oh, it's Eric, like a German Eric with a CH.
	Hope all is well with you.
	This is your concern.
	You write contest concern to Eric at Red Bull.
	It says, I'm reaching out in the hopes of being directed to the right person to express my concerns and what occurred at the Red Bull Cornerstone contest with the transgender competitor in the women's division.
	Perhaps that is you.
	If not, hopefully you can put me in contact with the correct person.
	A biological man with a clear advantage won the women's division, best trick, and also won multiple qualifiers.
	This took away the opportunity that was meant for women to place and earn money.
	What happened was unfair at the time, and I was too uncomfortable to speak up.
	I understand that in today's society, even some women think this is acceptable, but I believe in doing the right thing, even if it's not the popular thing.
	I now realize it's really important for me to speak up, and I'd like to schedule a time to talk.
	Did anyone help you draft that, if I may ask the intrusive question?
	Oh, no, I just typed that up.
	No lawyers?
	No, I wrote that myself.
	Not bad, not bad.
	Well, I wanted to just be straight up with them, and I want to be polite about it because...
	I think that it's probably a difficult situation for them to handle and know what to do.
	And I was hoping that hearing my perspective on it might help them to know how to handle it better and come up with a better solution that's not going to negatively impact the female athletes.
	But instead, they ignored me.
	And then when does the second one come into effect?
	Were you right?
	Oh, this is your post on your social media.
	That's just for the post to explain to people.
	Okay, so here's the post that Taylor puts up.
	It's on...
	Do you want people visiting your Instagram?
	Oh yeah, that's fine.
	Taylor May Silverman.
	My name is Taylor Silverman.
	I am a female athlete.
	I have been skateboarding for 11 years and competing for several years.
	I have been in three different contests with trans women, two of which I placed second.
	At the last contest series I did for Red Bull.
	I placed second.
	The trans competitor who won took $1,000 in qualifiers, $3,000 in finals, and $1,000 in best trick.
	This totaled to $5,000 of the prize money meant for the female athletes.
	I took $1,000 in qualifiers, $1,750 for second place, so $2,750 in total.
	The girl who took third received $750.
	The girl who deserved $1,000 for best trick took nothing, along with whomever would have placed third.
	I deserve to place first, be acknowledged for my win and get paid.
	I reached out to Red Bull and was ignored.
	I am sick of being bullied into silence.
	Yes.
	Now, I know how people are going to react to that.
	The people who are going to react offendedly to that post are going to take issue with your use of the word girl and female.
	But we'll get there in a bit.
	But just tell me, I mean, the obvious.
	What was the response?
	What was the shitstorm that kicked off after that?
	And did you ever foresee it happening?
	Well, the initial response in the first couple hours was pretty bad because it was just the group of followers that I already had.
	When I posted, I had about like 4,000 followers, just people in the skate community, people I had met traveling, people who liked the videos I posted who I didn't know.
	And I didn't know what to expect.
	I knew that there were a lot of people who were going to support me in silence because they didn't want to deal with the backlash that I was...
	Definitely going to receive.
	But the hate comments were all, for the most part, very similar.
	Like, you're transphobic.
	You're a bigot.
	But some of them got really dark.
	Like, you should hurt yourself and stuff like that.
	But the worst part of it, the most shocking part of it, was the anti-Semitism.
	And especially the anti-Semitism from people who I knew and had been nothing but kind to for years.
	And they didn't have anything to defend their stance, so they just went after me for being Jewish.
	And look, I hate it.
	It's the internet.
	It happens.
	The second a Jewish person talks about money on the interwebs, you know where it's going.
	I don't know how long you had been on the interwebs for when this happened, but you know it.
	Well, I was already receiving anti-Semitic direct messages and comments on a pretty regular basis just for being a Jew existing on Instagram.
	And I do...
	I love Israel.
	I was spending time in Israel, so you get more if you're over there.
	And I just...
	I knew before I posted this, especially considering the fact that there was money involved, that this could...
	Put a huge target on my back for anti-Semitism.
	I had no way of knowing how big of a story it would become or how severe that would get.
	If you look at different posts on my Instagram, especially ones of me in Israel or at the Western Wall or the Dead Sea, the comments are nasty.
	And it's very disappointing.
	Don't look at the chat.
	People think that we have an ideologically aligned or unanimous chat.
	I see the comments in the chat.
	It's the internet.
	Oh, I'm not watching.
	Don't look.
	Taylor, don't look at it.
	People can say what they want to say.
	No, I mean, I get it.
	And I don't even talk about it because it's not, for right or for wrong, that aspect of my identity is not a defining one for me.
	For right or for wrong.
	But it seems to be defining for other people regardless.
	Well, I mean, for me, it was like, I was just saying, what the heck does this have to do with me speaking out about fairness in sports?
	I love shekels.
	This is a joke, though, because the person is supporting the channel at the same time.
	Well played, sir.
	Okay, so the anti-Semitism, par for the course.
	I mean, any form of discrimination, those types of incels, par for the course.
	The ones that really get to me in the context of this discussion, in the context of your post, are the men or people with male names in their social media telling you, woman, shut up and stop complaining.
	And just deal with it.
	This is what people perceive to be women's rights.
	Yeah.
	How bad did it get and what impact or toll did it take on you?
	Oh, I mean, I get those comments and messages still every day, nonstop.
	And it's misogyny and it's really disappointing that people who claim to have an interest in women's rights have completely lost sight of what they're...
	I'm supposedly fighting for and turning on women.
	But yeah, I don't take that stuff too personally because I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong.
	I think I'm just speaking the truth and using common sense here.
	So people are going to say what they're going to say.
	It's the internet for the most part.
	Actually, for the 100% part, nobody said anything to my face.
	I presume.
	Actually, in real life, more people, or people were expressing their support for what you were doing?
	Yeah, people come up to me and were supporting me.
	Actually, I don't want this to happen, but people have recognized me places, and they pat me on the back and trying to shake my hand and stuff.
	And it's kind of shocking because I don't feel like I've done anything that amazing.
	I just spoke up about something very obvious.
	And I wish that it wasn't seen as a heroic thing to just say the truth.
	But I do appreciate all the support and I've received much more support than I've received hate.
	I probably shouldn't have left off that I got all those hate comments because what happened is as soon as the post started getting shared, people came to support me and combat the hate on the post.
	That's how it got so big.
	And that's how, like, the news heard about it.
	And that's how Tim Pool heard about it and tweeted about it.
	I think Colin Wright originally tweeted and then Tim Pool responded to that.
	But there were so many people who took part in helping me get the story out to the right people.
	I'm so grateful for every single person, whether it was sharing the post or just leaving a comment or just supporting me in silence and praying for me or whatever.
	All of it means a lot to me.
	And it's an interesting thing.
	I don't know if it was Heidegger's levels where you use a ladder to get to the next level and then you then start building from that level.
	But it's like in the interwebs, people who have experience will know the dynamic.
	There's like a ceiling, so to speak, of people that will shout you down.
	Into silence at a certain level.
	And then once you manage to break through that, you get to the next level where more people see it.
	And then you realize that those people were in fact bullies trying to silence you.
	So you never reach the next level of, I don't say viewership, but exposure where people with more critical thinking minds and more courage start to amplify the message.
	And then you get to the next level where people say, yeah, okay, this is not a question of bigotry.
	This is not a question of transphobia.
	This is a question of...
	Balancing rights, and above all else, respecting certain rights.
	The one question that you probably, or the one critique you always get, let's do the first one.
	Why did you wait so long if three or four months is so long?
	What explains the delay?
	Are you stewing in your loss, getting angry, and you feel they need to lash out?
	Or, I mean, I know the rest of that question.
	What took you that long, that period of time to come forward?
	So I felt...
	Like, guilty that I wasn't saying anything, knowing that being in the second place position and being in a contest where there was money involved and being a skater who didn't have as much to lose, I'm not this high-level professional who's going to lose all my big sponsors the moment I say something, because I don't have those sponsors.
	I'm just competing and doing this for fun and working to get to these contests on my own.
	I felt really guilty not saying anything.
	And I also recognize that I'm 27 years old.
	So somebody who's at the start of their skateboarding career or younger than me might not want to risk being blacklisted or not being allowed to compete anymore.
	But for me, it's like, I'll still skateboard regardless.
	And I probably won't be doing any Red Bull contests, but I know I'm welcome at a lot of other contests.
	So I'm sure that...
	Once I hear about a contest in whatever area I'm in, I'll sign right up and have a good time again doing that.
	But I just felt like somebody had to say something.
	And it was very difficult for me to stay silent because I'm the type of person that if I see something that I think is unjust, I genuinely believe that you need to speak up, especially when everybody else is going along with it, even though they...
	A lot of people recognize it's not right.
	So it was just out of fear.
	I knew that there would be consequences.
	And I knew that it could put a target on my back for anti-Semitism, like I said before.
	But I also started to feel like my fear of potentially having to explain this to My own kids one day, if I am lucky enough to have a family, was a lot larger than my fear of people running a smear campaign on the internet about me when I knew that it wasn't true.
	I'm telling everyone I'm going to get to these Super Chats in a bit.
	I just want to get through the bulk of this.
	You said you didn't lose sponsors because you didn't have sponsors?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And that was one of the questions I had.
	I was watching some other people's analyses of your posts and people like, oh, you know, some people say she doesn't follow...
	She seems to be sponsored by Dickies or whatever.
	I don't think so.
	There's all sorts of conspiracy theory videos about me.
	It's good.
	I've had a few small sponsors over the years, but at the point that I did this contest, I was just skating and doing my thing.
	I'm bringing up Britt Corbie's chat, not because it's a $50 chat.
	I've got all the other ones on...
	Star, and I'm going to get to them just because this was the next question I was going to ask you.
	I'm glad to see young women taking a stand to protect the things, places that the, quote, old guard fought for them to have and enjoy.
	That said, as a dude, I have no dog in this fight.
	If women do not stand up for themselves, I will not do it for them.
	That was exactly my next question.
	You know, some people say if the women in women and I'm saying the biological women in women's sports who are now being in a great many sports being trounced by biological men transitioning, if they don't complain about it and if they don't voice their concerns and object and do what's necessary, why should men white knight for the women who don't stand up for their own rights that have been fought for for the last hundred years?
	Well, I felt this whole time like it was really sad and unfortunate that women have to advocate for ourselves in this situation, and I think it's okay.
	For somebody who's not a female athlete to advocate for female athletes here as well.
	So even if you're a man, and also a lot of trans people have spoken up about this, that this isn't the opinion of all trans people.
	This isn't an accurate representation of how all trans people feel, and they recognize this is unfair and it's harming women.
	So regardless of who you are, everybody knows somebody, everyone knows a woman or a girl who loves sports.
	So speak up, regardless.
	But I do agree in a sense that women have to speak up for ourselves, too.
	Because it's scary, but I heard in this time that I was thinking, like, what to do.
	I remember hearing...
	I've seen videos where Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro would say that.
	They would say, "Women need to say something because nobody else is going to do anything if you don't say how you feel, if you don't speak up for yourself." So hearing that really helped me to go ahead and do it.
	But it is scary, especially when you look at what's happened to my social media.
	It does receive backlash.
	And I think that...
	Depending on how big a certain story gets, it may be better or worse.
	But in my case, it was a pretty extreme case of it.
	But I want people to know that I've received way more support than I have hate.
	And all the hate is on the internet, which isn't affecting my real life at all.
	I've only received more opportunities and made good connections because of this.
	So speak up.
	Don't be afraid.
	I know it's scary.
	It's something that I'm very sad to say women do have to advocate for themselves doing because women do have to advocate for themselves in order to make a difference here.
	But yeah, nobody else is going to do it for us.
	So we're more likely to get support if we use our voices.
	And Kevin Saunders says, we all have a dog in this fight.
	And to some extent, I'm a male.
	I've got two girls, two daughters.
	Parents work out of here a lot.
	Well, I mean, Let me just get rid of this chat.
	I have a theory also that this is also about protecting the trans adult.
	This is a question of balancing every interest so that there isn't a backlash against another demographic because of what people perceive to be an oppression of another.
	Balancing this is not a question of saying you're a bigot if you don't think biological males should compete in biological female sports.
	It's also about Ensuring cohesion because what will happen when you get the Leah Thomas stories, the Ohio track stories, you're going to get people getting angry at a demographic, a minority demographic in society, which is itself not good.
	It's not a question of protecting the trans community, but it's a question of establishing, you know, common sense rules that are going to prevent a large swath of people from getting angry at what they feel to be the tyranny of the minority that...
	actually basically trounces women's rights at large.
	Have you ever spoken with Lillian after this or during, before, after?
	I didn't because, like I said before, I didn't think this was something that is Lillian's fault.
	I think this is something that is Red Bull's fault.
	And that's why I reached out to Red Bull privately.
	But other than that, Lillian has never reached out to you or vice versa since this all hit front page news.
	No.
	Before I even spoke up about this, I had shared posts that made my stance very clear on my Instagram story, including art activism specifically highlighting the Leah Thomas situation.
	So I'm pretty sure that Lillian had dipped off my page when I was doing that.
	Okay, now I'm going to read some Super Chats before we get into one other question.
	If you're a man but a father of a little girl, you do have a dog in that fight.
	Agreed.
	And there's going to be a bunch of these.
	Ask her how many injuries she's had.
	Damn it, that wasn't the one I wanted to bring up.
	How many injuries have you had?
	Luckily, I've had...
	Most of my injuries have been pretty minor.
	I have broken several bones.
	And some of this stuff hasn't even been skateboarding, but I've broken...
	Several of my fingers, my wrist.
	I actually had a finger that got almost ripped off that I had to get emergency surgery to have reattached.
	I have split my chin, which every skater has split their chin.
	I've broken my nose a couple of times.
	And I have done all the ankle rolls.
	I've broken some ribs, which is always awful.
	I've done it in the front and the back.
	This is actually sounding like a lot now that I'm saying it all out loud.
	It is.
	It's a finger that you put a splint on it.
	It's not that big of a deal.
	I've only had a couple of surgeries.
	All right, this is sounding bad.
	But one of the ones that was most difficult for me to get through was I had an MCL sprain.
	And luckily, it was just a sprain.
	I was very worried that I had a tear or a meniscus tear.
	But I had to just take a couple months off.
	I was in the gym every day.
	I was working with a doctor who was really good.
	But my worst injuries have been not skateboarding, just like doing stupid stuff as a teenager.
	Like one time I split my head open on a diving board because I wanted to try to do a backflip for my friends.
	So injuries haven't deterred me from continuing to skateboard because skateboarding is weird.
	You think a lot of people would not do something that they know they're going to get hurt doing sometimes.
	But when you love it...
	It's just part of it.
	And the older I've gotten, the more I take care of my body, the more I have learned to train to help myself to prevent injuries, to eat right.
	I do yoga.
	I have a chiropractor now.
	There's a lot of effort that goes into staying healthy while I do this because I know it is not the safest of sports.
	Also, the other one is I've had a couple of very minor concussions, and I wear a helmet because I have known people who have suffered from traumatic brain injuries, and I think that it's best to wear a helmet.
	Some people hate on it, but it's better to have it when you need it than to wish that you were wearing it when you're hurt after.
	A helmet is a non-starter.
	Anyone who's ever seen someone smack their...
	Unprotected noggin on the ground and the sound it makes, the wet sopping sound.
	You'll never not wear a helmet again.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so this has all exploded.
	I mean, it exploded about a month ago.
	That's when it was really in the headlines.
	What has happened since?
	A lot has happened since.
	It's actually crazy that it's been a month because so much has happened.
	It just has been flying by.
	But at first, it was just a lot of media reaching out to me and people wanting to know more about the story.
	I was in the Israeli newspaper.
	The people in Israel heard about it.
	And I was able to go to New York to do a video with Ariel Scarcella, who I was already a fan of.
	So I was really excited to meet her in person.
	She's very sweet and very kind.
	And she not only filmed a video with me, but showed me around Brooklyn.
	And we had a really good time.
	Get to meet with her again and talk to her more.
	But I also went out to Timcast.
	And I did some videos.
	I did an interview and a vlog.
	I was on the Members Only IRL.
	Well, a few vlogs.
	We kind of took over the vlog channel while it was out there.
	Me and Jamie Kilsina, a comedian who was out at the same time.
	And hopefully I'll be back out there soon, but stay tuned for that.
	But this week, I'm actually going to be speaking at a rally in D.C. on, I believe it's Thursday.
	It's the 23rd.
	I have a note right here.
	And it's for the 50th anniversary celebration of Title IX.
	Myself and several other speakers, including other female athletes who have spoken up about this in their own sports, are going to be there to tell our stories.
	Okay, and this is the question.
	You're going to...
	Be a spokesperson for a bit.
	Do you have the concern that this is going to be effectively the defining element of your existence where you will be known and only known for being the spokeswoman in what will be dubbed arguably a transphobic position or at the very least, even if it's depicted fairly, do you get concerned at the prospect of having your entire identity and future going forward defined by you being a spokesperson?
	For this particular issue?
	I think that some people might think of me like that.
	And I don't think that that's going to be all I do.
	I think that I have a bright future of doing a lot more than just this.
	But we'll have to see what the future holds.
	And honestly, whether people view me like that or not, the way that I view myself, the way that the people I'm close to and care about view me is a lot more important to me.
	And they actually know me.
	People who pass judgments about me, whether good or bad because of something they saw on the internet, are going to do that.
	But their opinion doesn't really affect me in my day-to-day life.
	So I do appreciate all the support.
	And honestly, I even appreciate all the hate on the page because it's really shown what I'm talking about when I say I'm done being bullied into silence and how people respond to a woman speaking up for herself.
	Perhaps people will remember me for this only.
	Perhaps I'll be able to do other things that overshadow this.
	And hopefully one day, this is an issue we've all forgotten about and it doesn't occur anymore.
	And people will just think of it as something crazy that happened back in whenever, like how many years ago.
	It'll just be a forgotten issue and we'll get back to a point where we have, not forgotten, don't ever forget, but it'll be an issue that isn't happening anymore.
	I'm going to read this and then I'm going to read another one that's going to be a question for, you know, it's one thing to object and then the question is solution proposals.
	But first, Cynthia, as a mom of two Division I athletes, one is a girl, I'm so proud of Taylor.
	How has this happened to female sports?
	We fought so hard for Title IX for girls and young women.
	Cynthia, the argument, the legal argument that some people will raise to that is Title IX says nothing about sports specifically.
	But, I mean, this is the question, and it would be the main question I would ask to Lillian if Lillian were to come on, to Leah if Leah were to come on.
	Do we not agree that, by and large, biological males have a competitive athletic advantage against biological females in most sports?
	And if you agree with that, what's the solution?
	What do you propose?
	Because surely, if you concede that as you have to, because to not concede it is also an end of the discussion.
	What's the solution?
	Which brings me to the next question.
	World swimming effectively bans the trans from competition.
	We talked about it.
	We messaged about it briefly.
	But here's the thing.
	It's easy to complain.
	It's easy to object.
	What would you propose by way of common sense or not common sense solution?
	What would you have by way of a proposal to resolve the impasse here?
	Well, I think it's unfortunate that the responsibility to come up with a solution for this sometimes falls on female athletes.
	Because it's not our responsibility to fix this.
	But I think that there are a few different options that could be possibilities, such as having a trans division or some sort of open division as an option.
	And I recognize that in a lot of sports, a trans division wouldn't work because there just aren't enough people.
	But in skateboarding, it might actually be possible.
	There's a lot of transgender skateboarders.
	So I think it's at least...
	Something worth discussing and considering.
	But I think that there needs to be more voices at the table than just mine in deciding how to handle this.
	And I think that the only way we're going to find a solution is if people can have a reasonable discussion about it, but we know that what we're doing now is not working, is not fair, and can't continue.
	And I was thinking when you were talking about people disagreeing that there's a difference between men and women, or people who are born male, people who are born female.
	And I hear a couple different arguments.
	And one of them is trans women are women.
	There is no difference.
	They are the same.
	No advantage whatsoever.
	And you have to ignore a lot of facts to get in that boat.
	That logic falls apart when you start to look at the science.
	The other argument I hear is a little bit more reasonable, but still I don't think is a good argument, and that is that the inclusion of trans people in sports is more important than fairness because you don't want to hurt somebody's feelings.
	But in order to feel that way, you have to completely disregard the feelings of everyone else and the negative impact that it causes for everyone else.
	Yeah, it's the...
	I had a thought about what you were saying before.
	The science part.
	I mean, this is what sometimes leads to troll-type discourse on the internet where they say, yeah, it's not true that men are better than women at all sports.
	I mean, look at ultramarathons.
	Look at gymnastics.
	Look at a target shooting.
	And this is...
	And there are even exceptions in sports where there are women who do outperform the men, but we shouldn't be making the rules off the exceptions.
	We should make the rules off the science.
	Yeah, no, no.
	And I just lost my thought again.
	No, it was the idea of weight classes.
	The argument is make a trans division.
	And then the response to that is, well, there's not enough participation to make for a competitive field.
	Well, first of all, if the issue is as prevalent as people are suggesting it is, there would be a sufficient depth of the field.
	But for anybody who's ever competed in sports, it's not always the case that in your respective class, there's going to be a depth of competition.
	Yeah, that's actually something that...
	Female skateboarders have struggled with over the last decade plus.
	There's been times I go to a contest and there's not enough women for a division and I get thrown in with the men.
	So it's like we finally actually are at a place where we have enough people to even have real women's divisions and now we're having this happen.
	So hopefully if we can start something like a trans division perhaps it won't be The biggest event the first time, but if it works, hopefully it could grow.
	I think it's at least worth trying.
	I would have only added to that, like, I used to do, not competitive, but high school wrestling.
	And with the 100-pound weight class, there was always, like, only three or four people.
	People would want to lose as much weight as possible to get into the 100-pound weight class because the depth of competition was a little bit shallower.
	You did have the 100.
	They said, okay, do you want to wrestle up?
	The person wrestling up would not have any say in it.
	The person who had to wrestle up would say, do you want to?
	Yeah, I'll take my chances at 115.
	But what you never had was bringing down the 115 to 100 and saying, 100, shut up, you've got to deal with it.
	Because the advantage was obvious, which is why there were classes drawn up in the first place.
	Hold on, hold on.
	Let's get this one here.
	Should athletics be divided by age, size, weight, skill instead of gender, sex?
	The answer there would be that would still be unfair because a 115-pound male in virtually every sport will dominate a 115-pound female.
	It's just the nature of muscle, mass, bones, center of mass, etc.
	In skating, by the way, Taylor, there's been a lot of analyses as to the distinctions between biological females, biological males in the sport of skateboarding.
	Are you comfortable explaining what those differences are?
	Well, for me at first, it was just common sense.
	It was easy to recognize that males have an advantage in skating and across the board in athletics.
	But there's a lot of factors that go into it that are very small ones and also very big, obvious ones.
	So men are stronger than us.
	Men have a higher center of gravity.
	They can jump higher than us.
	They are less prone to injuries.
	They have denser bones.
	They have a different angle with their hips that...
	It affects knee and ankle injuries specifically.
	And they just typically have more endurance than us.
	They have faster reaction time than us.
	The list goes on.
	And although there are some cases where women outskate men, there's been times when I've been thrown in with the men's division and I've placed, despite being at a disadvantage.
	But it doesn't change the fact that the men require much less effort to learn the most basic tricks in skateboarding.
	Thank you.
	I'm reading some of the chat because it seems that there is some discussion.
	One of the arguments that people will always raise is, Viva, men are not better than women in every sport.
	Go compete in Olympic women's division and you'll lose.
	My response is, of course I would.
	The issue is not comparing the average with the elite.
	It's among taking the elite, It's among taking the average and then seeing how the graphs fall there.
	We see, though, that even elite-level women, there will be a competitor who's transitioned who was a low-ranking or average athlete before transitioned who's now in the top spot.
	Sometimes that does happen.
	To me, it's pretty common sense.
	It's pretty obvious.
	Even without knowing every bit of science behind it, just watching the contests, watching Fallon Fox box women, it's pretty clear.
	Air rifle, archery.
	One thing I've never understood, I can understand in certain sports where I don't see the reason why there would be a division.
	Darts, for example.
	There's no strength difference that would be material.
	Even if I think, you know, on average, biological males are stronger than biological females.
	In darts, it seems that that shouldn't be relevant.
	And yet, I mean, there are women who compete in the men's division.
	I don't know if there is a women's division.
	There has to be a women's division.
	But by and large, it's dominated by males for whatever the reason.
	Could be social, who participates in these games.
	Could be muscle memory and whatever.
	So what do you do now?
	What's going forward now?
	And are you still?
	Do you notice an interest in the media in discussing this story, or do people still find it a little too toxic to deal with, or too controversial to deal with?
	It's actually been pretty shocking that it's been a month and I'm still on a book schedule.
	Like, I've got this rally this week in D.C., and I still have interviews and podcasts lined up, and I'm going to be going back out to the Cass Castle to do some more stuff out there.
	But I have a lot on my plate right now.
	I'm not sure how it's all going to play out exactly, but it's still a big goal of mine to go back to Israel.
	My boyfriend lives there, so I want to definitely continue to take some trips to visit there and eventually even make Alia.
	But I'm just going to see what the future holds.
	I think a year ago, if someone would have asked me where I'd be today, I would have had no idea.
	I have no idea where I'm going to be in a year from now.
	But I think it's going to be good.
	I'm really grateful for all the support I've gotten, for all the amazing people who have given me the opportunity to share my story, including you today.
	And I'm glad that we happened to cross paths when we were both back.
	It was totally, totally fortuitous.
	And I'm sort of shocked there are some stories that I haven't heard of despite being in that area.
	I mean, Leah Thomas I heard.
	I can't remember the Ohio track.
	But this is a discussion.
	It has to be had, period.
	And it's not a question of excluding anyone from the discussion.
	I could predict who will agree to sit down and have a discussion and who will avoid.
	I don't have any direct connection to Leah Thomas, but I would have Leah Thomas on and ask the very same questions and see what the answers would be, and then the public would make up their mind.
	I'm open to talking to people who disagree with me, too.
	I've actually done some interviews that at the end of it, they kind of suggested they weren't going to use them because they didn't get the type of answers they were hoping for.
	So some people have criticized me saying, well, you only speak to this side of the argument, but I'm talking to a lot of different people.
	Not everybody will post it, and not everybody's willing to talk to me in the first place.
	I am willing to talk to people who disagree.
	I'd be more than willing to talk to Red Bull if they would respond by email, which they still haven't responded to.
	But yeah, like yourself, you can kind of tell who's going to be willing to have a conversation with you.
	But I'm open to it because I'm pretty firm on my stance.
	I know what I'm doing is right and things that I'm saying are true.
	And when you have that on your side, it gives you a lot of confidence.
	I mean, the more people say this, I can't believe how much time people are discussing all of this nonsense about simple biology.
	And that is, bottom line, what it's about.
	And then my personal perspective on this is that everyone is free to do what they want with their own bodies as a consenting adult.
	In full awareness of fact and law.
	Where it becomes the issue is someone who says, "I decide, for my own personal needs, I decide I need to transition from biological male to female in as much as it's medically, scientifically even possible." More power to you.
	Yeah, I think that's very brave and people who do that should be supported.
	Exactly.
	But then where it becomes an issue is someone saying, you, Leah Thomas, as a biological female, have to suffer, live through the consequences of my decision to do what I want to do with my body, and then using those biological...
	I'm not calling it an advantage because I don't think men have a biological advantage, but I would call it a leg up.
	Maybe I would call it an advantage.
	Well, we're different.
	Men and women are different.
	Female bodies and male bodies are different, and male bodies have...
	There are better at athletics, and we see that across the board in almost every sport, especially skateboarding.
	If you just watch skateboarding, you can tell.
	I saw some science breaking it down that men have a higher upper body center of mass, so it makes it easier to maneuver the skateboard.
	Women have a center of mass that's lower to the hips, makes it harder to maneuver.
	I've been reading the science, but I'm not a scientician or a biologist.
	But it's the idea that someone says, this is what I believe I have to do with my own being in order to be fulfilled in life.
	More power to you.
	But now I have a biological...
	And an individual who's 27 or 25 has had their entire life to build up testosterone, muscle mass, bone density, and then says, I'm three years into a transitioning process.
	You now, an entire half of the world that has fought for equal rights, have to live with the consequences of my decisions for my own body.
	That's not how freedom works, and that's not how freedom of choice works, in my humble view.
	But maybe there are compelling arguments to say that a 25-year-old Yeah, and I searched for the other side of this.
	I searched for videos and articles of people discussing their views who thought this was fair, and I couldn't find anything that was that convincing.
	I talked about the two main things, which is trans women.
	Are women and there's no difference which I think is dangerous ideology because trans women are trans women and that's okay and that should be respected but when it comes to biology there are some pretty major differences and then the other one being that you know being nice and being inclusive is more important but it really just pushes women aside and silences us and says that our our thoughts and our feelings don't matter.
	And it's actually, it's pretty shocking how many women are on vote with the whole trans women are women and it's fair to have trans women in our contest despite them being born male and having these advantages.
	But I think that a lot of people have kind of lost sight of what they're fighting for regarding women's equality and rights and I wish people could Just use a little bit of common sense here and realize that it's not about being hateful.
	It's not about making an attack on the trans community.
	This is just about fairness in sports.
	And the goal here is not to exclude trans people from sports or that trans people can't participate in athletics.
	It's to come up with a better solution than what we're doing now.
	Because what we're doing now, we gave it a try.
	It doesn't work.
	Especially in contact sports, I feel like we need to...
	Put an end to this because in contact sports, women get hurt with the boxing situation.
	And women, like the next generation of girls who are going to come up and be taught that this is how women's sports are, this is going to impact their mental health.
	Because sports are so crucial in learning team building skills and learning social skills and building confidence.
	So many women benefit from that growing up.
	And if girls feel like they shouldn't even come, they shouldn't even try out, if they do their best, there's no way that they can earn the spot that they deserved or be recognized for their success, then it's gonna harm women in more ways than one.
	And I don't want to see what could happen if we don't put an end to this now.
	All right.
	With that said, Taylor, is there anything I forgot to ask that you want to mention before we go?
	And by the way, everyone in the chat, stick around.
	I'm going to continue going.
	Ordinarily, I'd end it and we'd say our proper goodbyes, but I'm going to read some super chats and pull up a few articles.
	But Taylor, have I forgotten anything?
	Is there anything you want to mention?
	Well, the one thing I would say is use your voice.
	Don't be afraid to speak up about this.
	I know it's really scary.
	I know it feels like...
	There could be bad consequences.
	And you might receive some backlash online if you're sharing it online.
	But even just making this topic less taboo to talk about, talk about it with your friends.
	Talk about it with your family.
	Ask the women in your life how they feel about it.
	Because raising awareness is the first step to creating change.
	So use your voice.
	You've got one.
	Use it.
	Awesome.
	Taylor, we'll be in touch.
	I'll call you afterwards and we'll talk after this.
	But I'm going to keep going for...
	Until I have to go pick up a kid at school.
	Till, thank you.
	Thank you very much for doing this.
	It was fantastic.
	And I'm going to say it again before we leave and I'll say it later.
	Liam Gallagher is the lead singer from Oasis.
	Lillian Gallagher.
	Anytime.
	Leah Thomas, anytime.
	I would love to hear the perspective from the other side of this and share it and maybe we can all learn and maybe, I dare say, people could understand the concerns of the other and come to some Mutually acceptable and above all else, fair resolution.
	Taylor, keep on keeping on and keep on doing God's work and we'll talk soon.
	Thanks again for having me.
	I really appreciate it.
	It was a good time talking to you.
	Thank you for coming.
	We'll see you soon.
	Bye-bye.
	Bye.
	People, fantastically interesting.
	Sorry, I meant to put it back in.
	I meant to remove from stream.
	How do I do this?
	That could have been embarrassing.
	Okay, sorry.
	I'm going to pull up my headphones for a second.
	Oh, give my ears a chance to breathe.
	And then get to some of these super chats.
	Brit, I hope you know what you're doing, man.
	I don't like feeling guilty about this, but let me get to some super chats here.
	Organized skateboarding is BS, just go skate.
	Sometimes it's fun.
	Look, organized running is BS, just go run.
	Yeah, but running through the woods at any organized event brings out collegiality, a sense of community.
	It's fun.
	Worth asking Emily D. Baker's take.
	She was a Division I men's water polo team at UMass.
	For sure.
	I don't think...
	I'll take a guess.
	I don't think Emily Baker is going to disagree much or at all substantively with what we discussed here today.
	I would imagine.
	Britt Cormier, for the people that think there is no difference between men and women, chess is the most egalitarian game I can think of.
	There is no luck.
	It is skill versus skill.
	I think I'm going to know how to respond to this one, Britt.
	Top woman is ranked 99th in the world.
	I am not saying she is not good.
	She is amazing.
	I have seen plenty of her games.
	However, even in a game where the physical skills are at a minimum, there is a separation in the biological sexes.
	Britt, the argument to this is going to be that there is a history.
	I won't call it exclusion.
	Let me just get this out of here.
	There's a history of exclusion.
	Women were simply not involved in the game of chess for the longest of times that it will take a lot of time of not social re-engineering, but social encouragement to reach the broadest pool of female competition in chess, which we're not at yet.
	It's not that they were excluded by rules or laws, and I don't think that they were from the game of chess, but socially, culturally, chess was played by men, and therefore the pool of female competition or talent has not yet been exploited or socially promoted as much as it has been historically the other way.
	That would be the argument.
	And I think the same would go for poker.
	Very odd in a game where, I guess, historically, men played poker more than women.
	World Series of Poker, the earliest tables, virtually no women.
	So I don't think that there are different brain aspects of male versus female brains.
	How that pans out in chess, there might be a history and a culture behind chess that could explain the discrepancy.
	That would be the counter-argument.
	Crypt Keeper says, idea, remove men's women's divisions, just one human division, and may the best win.
	Now, that's sort of exactly what led to...
	Title IX in the first place, although it didn't specifically deal with sports, the idea was that you had to protect women's rights where there are differences that might lead to differential treatment in an unequal manner.
	As the comic Tom Lehrer said, Pasha Moyer, there are some people who do not love their fellow human, and I hate people like that.
	It's a very Michael Wright-ish joke.
	America 76 says, with respect to Taylor, going against the mob is heroic.
	Her point about people not using their voice is well taken, though.
	Her point about people not using their voice is well taken, though.
	People lose their jobs over this.
	They lose their sponsors.
	There's a certain freedom that comes with having nothing to lose, or not certain things to lose.
	Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
	Joan Baez.
	But people lose friends, family, jobs, sponsors.
	It's a form of...
	It's a form of ideological suppression done by the lower level tier that prevents people from speaking out in the first place.
	But then when people speak out and they puncture that level, lo and behold, the message actually resonates with more people than you could have ever imagined.
	Sport is based on biology.
	Jumping in biological men with biological women is comparable to different weight categories athletes jumping in together, e.g.
	UFC.
	I think most people would agree with that.
	Men should stand up for women.
	Women for men.
	The important thing is to stand up for what is right and defend those who cannot defend themselves.
	Pasha Moyer, 514, Montreal Area Code.
	Thank you very much.
	Good thing I do not have children.
	So when I say have no dog in the fight, that is exactly what I mean.
	Women need to fight for their spaces.
	I will support those that do, but it is up to them to take a stand and say enough is enough.
	Britt Cormier.
	Merely a flesh wound in describing her litany of...
	Physical injury.
	When the day comes that all this craziness ends, what restitution should the women who were denied their win receive?
	If any, thank you for your bravery and for speaking out.
	Tina Lewis, Taylor's not here right now, but it will be...
	People are going to look back on this and they're not going to say what was done was right.
	What they might say, it was a mistake done in the haste of finding a solution.
	It was an imperfect situation.
	It was imperfect measures temporarily.
	That's how they'll pass it off.
	But to pretend, just to pretend that biology doesn't exist, it might work for certain arguments.
	There are certain arguments in which the biological differences between men and women, males and females, is irrelevant to the issue at hand such that it is irrelevant.
	In sports, it's not.
	Period.
	Tim Gibson, I've heard this argument, without gay marriage legalized, this wouldn't have happened.
	One thing led to the next.
	I disagree with that.
	And for those of you who say out there that I don't challenge the subs, viewers, and supporters, Tim Gibson, thank you for the super chat, and I'll disagree with you on this, and here's why.
	And it comes from the discussion with Brandon Strzok that I had a couple of weeks ago, who's a gay male, a gay man, who was very much on board with gay rights.
	And as he described it, as he explained it, it was, let us live our lives without discrimination.
	Let us live as we want to live, man and man, woman and woman, without discrimination.
	It was not a question of saying, I'm a gay man, and therefore you should be engaging in activities with me even if you're not a gay man.
	It was, let me marry.
	And people had issue with sharing the word marriage, which in the definition was union between a man and a woman.
	They said, let us live equally under the law and leave us be.
	Where it became different was it is let us do what we want to do and you have to therefore change your own behavior as relates to our decisions.
	Someone wants to be gay, lesbian, doesn't affect me.
	And quite honestly, I don't see that.
	I don't see it.
	I don't ask it.
	It's none of my business.
	It's none of my concern insofar as they're good people.
	Where it becomes an issue is when people start telling you not by what name they want to be, but how they should be referred to definitionally, which affects conjugation.
	And if you don't do it, you might be punished under the law.
	That's when it becomes an issue.
	So I disagree with this, Tim.
	And I want to make sure it's clear why I disagree with it.
	And if you disagree with my disagreeing with it, Tim, let me know why.
	Let me know why.
	Okay, so this was Arlie Songbird.
	I was trying to follow some of the discussion, but I wasn't.
	We just want to live.
	There just needs to be an honest conversation about this.
	And I agree.
	I agree.
	I think everyone agrees with that.
	But I haven't seen the other parts of the discussion.
	Okay, we discussed the chess.
	And I support and I'm proud of you, Taylor.
	All adult human females should be outraged that trans women have more rights than women.
	Trans women's rights, biological males, come before women.
	It's egregious.
	And this is why, you know, the interesting thing about the discussion is that it's important to find a solution to prevent backlash from what people feel to be an injustice and what biologically is simply unfair.
	If people perceive and view real-time unfairness that is biologically demonstrable, it actually causes more social upheaval than finding the proper solution that allows everyone to live in peace and in mutual respect of everyone's respective rights.
	Someone decides they want to transition from a biological male to a female in adulthood after puberty.
	That's their decision.
	That is their choice.
	To go from there to say that other people now...
	Have to suffer injustices, rights that they fought for because of one's decision of what they want to do to their own body.
	That becomes a question where someone is saying, you now have to live with the consequences of my choices for myself.
	And that's where people have issues.
	And if you actually want to avoid social discord, you'd resolve that issue instead of demonizing the people who take issue with it.
	Okay.
	I'm glad we had that discussion.
	And we've got some more time for the rest of the day.
	Share screen.
	There were some more.
	Oh, well, let's go read the article, by the way.
	There were a number of articles.
	A number of articles.
	StreamYard.
	Yeah.
	Okay, here we go.
	Let's see what was on the Twitter feed.
	That is the diary of the newsworthy events.
	Okay, that was the depth of field.
	This was Elon Musk Twitter.
	We're going to have to go see what the tally to that debate is.
	Okay, hold the line, the new shirt.
	So we've read the article, and that was the highlight.
	Okay, come on.
	Here it is.
	This is the article.
	BBC.
	Okay, here we go.
	FINA.
	Foreign.
	What is the FINA going to stand for?
	It's the swimming association.
	Bars transgender swimmers from women's elite events if they went through male puberty.
	Let's go see if we're still green-lighted here.
	I think we should be.
	I think it's been a very, very meaningful and respectful discussion, and we're still agreeing.
	Who knows?
	Maybe YouTube at the end of the day is going to do the right thing.
	FINA, swimming's world governing body, has voted to stop transgender athletes from competing in women's elite races if they have gone through any part of the process of male puberty.
	So flags going off, what does elite races mean?
	And what does any part of male puberty mean?
	How do you even define the day that that happens?
	FINA will also aim to establish an open category at competitions for swimmers whose gender identity is different than their birth sex.
	You're going to have problems with this.
	FINA will also aim to establish an open category at competitions for swimmers whose gender identity is different than their birth sex.
	This seems like a very common sense middle ground.
	If you want to compete, In what you call it, call it a trans league or trans division.
	Everyone does it willingly, knowingly, and with whatever biological inconveniences that that will raise.
	If you're a biological female transitioning to male or biological male transitioning to female or a biological female who might want to willingly race in this division.
	The issue is going to be they're going to have to set up some criteria so that it's not willy-nilly.
	You know, someone on a day of saying, yeah, sure, I haven't even done anything yet, but my gender identity is different than my birth sex today, and now I want to go and compete in this category with whatever financial reward that it might yield should I win.
	But that is the obvious solution.
	And there seems to be enough people that this would have its own division in a great many sports.
	It might not be the deepest of fields.
	UFC...
	Did not start off with the deepest talent field in the welterweight divisions until UFC was built up as a product on its own.
	So build up the industry and you'll build the depth that you need for competitive and interestingly competitive categories.
	The new policy, which was passed with 71% of the vote from the 152 FINA members, was described as, Only a first step towards full inclusion for transgender athletes.
	I'd like to know what the rationale was for the other 29% voting against, but maybe I'll try to find the document.
	The 34-page policy document says that male to female transgender athletes could compete in the women's category, but only, quote, provided that they have not experienced any part of male puberty beyond Tanner Stage 2, which marks the start of physical development, or before age 12. Whichever is later.
	That's interesting.
	I'll just clean my glasses off.
	Like I said in response to the tweet, the risk is that this might push kids to now say, mom and dad, I need to do it now.
	Or parents are going to say, we need to do it now because if I want my kid to ever have a normal life in competitive sports, this is when we have to do it by, this is the cutoff date.
	And then lo and behold, you might get into one of the other The decision was made during an extraordinary general congress at the ongoing world championships in Budapest.
	It means that transgender athletes, a transgender American college swimmer, Leah Thompson, who has expressed a desire to compete for a place at the Olympics would be From participating in the female category at the Games.
	However, the policy does not apply to national federations or the U.S. College Championships, the NCAAs, at which Thomas recently won the 500-yard freestyle.
	Instead, each national federation, including the British swimming, will need to decide if it is to implement the FINA policy.
	All right, well, that's the story.
	The idea that you would have a special, a separate category, period.
	That's it.
	It seems like the no-brainer solution.
	How deep the depth of field is, the depth of talent is going to be, or the competition, it's a question of developing it over time.
	UFC initially had, well, in addition to no rules, it didn't have that deep of a talent stack, such that you ended up having to have that 200-pound guy fighting the 600-pound guy.
	Inasmuch as that looked unfair, the anomaly in that one was the 200-pound guy won.
	Let me bring this back up here.
	That's the latest in that story.
	Now, what else was there before we might call it quits?
	Get that out of here.
	Alex Jones.
	That was from Friday Night with Barnes.
	That guy blocked me.
	Not doing the self-defense.
	That's not my wheelhouse and I don't like...
	Oh, here we go.
	Let's read this article.
	Let's read this article, people.
	This is from online library.
	This is a study.
	This thingy thing, peeps, temporarily impairs semen concentration and total motile count, TMC, among semen donors.
	TMC is the moving sperm in any given ejaculate.
	And it's now been determined.
	I don't know if this is unique to the Fauci juice or this is an immune response to any such jab, shot, or whatever.
	But the conclusion now, men continually reproduce their ejaculate.
	So it's not like harming a female eggs, which a woman is only born with so many.
	Men continually rejuvenate because of other biological reasons that...
	Men have to go around and spread seed.
	System immune response from the BNT, that's the Pfizer, is a reasonable cause for transient semen concentration and TMC to decline.
	Long-term prognosis remains good.
	Yes, because males continually rejuvenate that.
	The one question I have, and I believe I asked it, and I don't believe I'll get an answer for it, is decline of...
	Active sperm is one thing.
	Decline of active sperm is one thing.
	But the more important question, what effect might reducing TMC have on the remaining moving sperm in terms of potential birth issues from that ejaculate?
	If it slows down the moving, what was it called?
	TMC was total motile count.
	If it reduces total motile count of moving sperm, does it have any impact on the other remaining moving sperm?
	And if it does, does it have any potential impact later on?
	Oh, wait!
	We don't have that data yet.
	So one day.
	But these articles are now one after the other after the other coming out.
	And, you know, the conspiracy theory one day confirmed another.
	Let me just see where that was that I said conspiracy theory confirmed.
	There was a similar story going on.
	Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on.
	Okay, forget the typos.
	Oh, that's annoying.
	Yeah, well, here we go.
	France has started to ban outdoor events due to heat.
	To which I said, conspiracy theory confirmed, people.
	They're going to apply, I mean, Trudeau said as much, they're going to apply what we've learned from COVID to global warming.
	And we'll end on this.
	We'll end on this.
	It's amazing.
	Celebrities always get...
	They feel empowered to be yippy and yappy and disrespectful and abusive only after they've made their first five million.
	Dean Norris.
	Damn, I loved him in Breaking Bad.
	Decent looking guy.
	Nice chiseled face.
	Worth between five and eight million and well more than that because those celebrity net worth things are always radically underestimated.
	Says to his adoring fans who made him the millionaire that he is, you're not getting robbed at the pump.
	You're paying fair market price for a commodity.
	If you love capitalism so much, then start talking for yourself.
	That's not what STFU means.
	People think that's a base take.
	To which I responded, and I think it's the fair response.
	Fair market price.
	This is coming from Schadenfreude.
	What's his name?
	I don't know what his name is.
	The guy from Breaking Bad.
	When the government incompetence, idiotic national and foreign policy leads to massive inflation, I should have also added and reduced local supply.
	It's not fair market price, but it's interesting how pompous celebrities and field powered to berate everyday citizens after they've made their millions.
	Off of those citizens, no less.
	And he's worth way more than $5 million.
	Either he's worth way more than $5 million or he's squandered millions of dollars because it's inconceivable that he's only worth $5 million.
	Okay, well, that was good.
	So, people, 2 o 'clock?
	Speaking of getting outside and getting some exercise and getting some vitamin D, let me see if I've missed anything in the chat, actually.
	Let me get to some chat and some rumble rants.
	Then I might go for a jog through the mountain, through the woods, to grandmother's house we go.
	Oh, tomorrow, by the way, daytime stream, and I'm going to have the author of How...
	I'm going to screw up the name of the book.
	How Trudeau Stole Freedom?
	Let me just see.
	Let me make sure I got the name of the book right.
	How...
	The Prime Minister.
	Sorry, not Trudeau.
	How the Prime Minister Stole Freedom by Derek Smith.
	Derek Smith is going to come on tomorrow and we're going to talk about that book, the massive success that it's happening.
	And we're going to, I don't know, maybe I'll read a page.
	I got my hard copy.
	I'm going to read it to the kids tonight.
	And we'll see.
	Did I miss anything here?
	Okay, let's hear.
	Oh, here.
	Viva.
	The FINA article will have parents with the expectation of raising athletes will do things to the kids early on to chase a dream.
	And especially, by the way, now it's going to become another aspect of the psychological hardship that comes along with transgenderism in general.
	The argument is, before the courts, you need to let the kids transition because it's the only way they're going to feel comfortable with themselves and if they don't, they're going to self-harm themselves.
	And that's been the argument.
	This is just going to add another argument to that tool.
	I need to do this if I want to be happy as an adult and if you don't do this to me now.
	Another reason for the distress of this condition at this stage of my life.
	Therefore, even more have to do it right now.
	And you have to do it now.
	Because if I hit day one of that, I won't be able to compete in the category in which I identify for the rest of my life.
	It's going to be a big thing.
	It will lead to that argument.
	And then if you're living in...
	The province of Quebec, where the government has stripped parental supremacy from the Youth Protection Act, and the courts are now going to have to come in and say what's in the child's best interest, even if both parents object to it.
	This is where it is going.
	Not hyperbole, not false alarms.
	This is where it is going, and it's just going to be a question of getting the first test case.
	You see here we got Viva Fry, not official highlights.
	He puts up clips and snips.
	Yep.
	Love that the book is selling like hotcakes, but we all know it won't be on any top books list.
	This is the way.
	Yep.
	Well, Tom McDonald explained how they go about curating.
	Who makes it onto the top, you know, the bestsellers or the top 100 music charts.
	You know, you got to prove independent sales and good luck proving independent sales when they don't recognize your criteria for independent sales.
	It's a rigged system, people.
	It's a big...
	What's the word I'm looking for?
	It's a club and you ain't in it.
	And it's a rigged system and you don't run it.
	Okay.
	Homeschool your kids.
	They'll be more intelligent in the end.
	For your efforts, learn them how to learn.
	And I'll say this.
	It depends on the kids.
	I think if they're going to learn it, they're going to learn it.
	They're going to see it.
	They're going to see it.
	And you can't shelter your kids forever.
	I...
	I would sooner off for let your kids go to the schools, know what they're discussing, know what they're talking about, and have those discussions at home.
	And that's how we're doing it, but primarily because in as much as a good father I am, not necessarily always patient, I think there's a dynamic that parents have with their kids that those who can do homeschooling, more power to you, but I don't think I can do it.
	When am I coming to New York?
	Great fishing here.
	Big Pete, don't take this the wrong way.
	I don't think I'm ever going to New York anytime soon.
	You know, driving down to Timcast in Virginia, my best friend lives in New York City.
	I was uncomfortable at the idea of driving.
	I didn't want to add the traffic.
	I didn't want to add the stop of the delay overnight.
	But I'm also a little uncomfortable going to New York at this point.
	It's not the city that it used to be when I was a kid, which was exponentially better than the city was 20 years earlier.
	Maybe I'm exaggerating.
	And maybe I'm just wrong.
	But I...
	From what I now understand of New York, and this is not just from Fox News, because I actually don't really watch Fox News, from friends and family, it's having issues.
	To pretend otherwise is a problem, and it's going to have to be a good reason for which I decide to go there and get out, Cynthia.
	I'm neurotic.
	I'm neurotic, but I also have to feel good and not have, you know...
	Anxiety attacks, even if they're baseless.
	And it's not one of those things that expose myself to spiders to lose my fear of spiders.
	I don't think New York is the same city now that it was before.
	And I wouldn't feel as comfortable now roaming the streets endlessly as I once upon a time did in a previous life.
	Need more Saturday Viva and Barnes?
	Sunday is for Salty.
	I was just talking about this with someone.
	There's so many of us now live streaming on the interwebs.
	It's impossible to coordinate properly.
	Saturday night, there's a bunch of people live.
	And yeah, there's always replay.
	There's always replay and you can switch it up.
	Viva Fry, what was your route to Virginia?
	Montreal to the 87, through New York and then I went through New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Virginia, I believe.
	I know that I bypassed New York City this time and hit the New Jersey way and it was beautiful.
	Driving through Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania is beautiful.
	There's the last stretch of road before you hit...
	West Virginia, where you're driving, I guess, south, and there's just a beautiful green mountain ridge on the right, and a long mountain ridge.
	I don't know what it's called, but it's a beautiful drive, and I could drive forever.
	Setting aside the numbness that I get down to my toe when I sit on my butt for too long, I could drive forever.
	I drove down, I listened to Huey Long's autobiography.
	Not autobiography, biography.
	Is it the Appalachians?
	I listened to Huey Long's biography, didn't finish it yet.
	I listened to Born to Run, finished it.
	I read two books, one and a half books, in two days.
	I didn't read one and a half books in ten years before the audiobook was created.
	Okay, so maybe it's the Appalachians.
	Road trips are good.
	I don't travel well without the family.
	I don't like the silence of my thoughts circulating in my head.
	Over and over and over again.
	Which is why books are kind of good also, but the ones you listen to.
	Pat King.
	Gotta see what's going on with Pat King.
	I haven't checked in on that story in a while.
	You know what?
	Let's do it right now.
	Pat King.
	In jail.
	Still.
	I don't think he's out.
	I would have heard if he got out.
	Pat King.
	Unless he struck a deal.
	Pat King was arrested from the Ottawa Convoy on mischief charges that they subsequently added.
	Oh, it looks like CBC decided to run an article on it.
	In jail for more than 100 days on mischief charges resulting from the Ottawa protest.
	He remains in jail 113 days after being arrested.
	And this is fine with the folks at the CBC.
	This is fine with some Canadians.
	Mischief charges.
	The dude who ran over four people in Winnipeg out of jail.
	Months after the Freedom Convent was cleared out of Ottawa streets, some of its leaders remained behind bars with no end in sight.
	And one expert says they're likely serving more time in jail awaiting trial than they will have convicted.
	One expert?
	I'm not an expert.
	I've been saying that for three months.
	CBC.
	Pat King, one of the leaders of the convoy, disputed fact, but he was certainly there, and he certainly co-opted a voice of it.
	Remains in jail 113 days after being arrested for his role in the protests that occupied downtown Ottawa streets for more than a month.
	It was three weeks.
	It was barely, it was not an occupation.
	A bunch of pathological, Trudeau-funded propagandists.
	King is co-accused with Tyson George Billings, who was arrested on similar charges.
	Often seen at Kingside, Billings has been in jail for 112 days.
	The two continue to be denied bail.
	Mischief charges.
	They threw in a little perjury from one of his previous bail hearings.
	Police never disclosed a full list of who was arrested and charged from convoy, but at least a handful of lesser-known people involved are still in jail.
	According to a legal expert, King and Billings have likely already served more time in jail awaiting trial than they will if convicted and sentenced.
	We are already reaching a period of prior detention, prior detention is called pre-trial detention, of innocent people at law detained and denied bail.
	That overpasses the possible punishment, said Joao Velosa.
	A law professor at the University of Ottawa.
	Others arrested during the protests, such as Tamara Litch and Chris Barber, are awaiting trial on bail.
	However, they are active on social media promoting adjacent movements.
	No, they're not.
	That's a lie.
	However, they are active on social media promoting adjacent movements, including election campaigns and future protests.
	No, they're not.
	Tamara Litch, I believe, is actually not allowed posting on social media.
	Unless I'm mistaken.
	A pastor who visits with King in jail.
	He's pretty beat down, says Melissa McKee, a pastor at Ottawa's Capital City Bikers Church, which offered sanctuary space during its regular hours to protest during the Freedom Convoy.
	King continues to be frustrated by the justice system.
	Oh, they called it the justice system.
	He went through a series of lawyers before hiring his current representatives.
	Calvino.
	But continues to face charges for mischief.
	Counseling to commit mischief.
	By the way, hold the line was what Tamara Lich said that resulted in her.
	She said, hold the line while being arrested.
	That was counseling mischief, from what I understand.
	Counseling to commit the offense of disobeying a court order.
	Say that five times in a row.
	Counseling to commit the offense of disobeying a...
	Counseling to commit.
	Telling someone how to defy a court order.
	Suggesting that someone commit contempt of court.
	And counseling to obstruct police.
	Wow.
	in jail for 30, 60, 90, going to go on four months for counseling someone to obstruct the police.
	Supporters regularly seek out the latest info on King, and many continue to view him as a motivating figure in the Freedom Convoy and the ongoing movement it inspired.
	Whoa, be careful!
	Be careful!
	Wrote David Paisley, who runs the popular social media channel Live from the Shed.
	I've actually had Paisley on the channel.
	And by the way, here, they've got to equivocate now.
	Don't worry, people.
	This is not political persecution against King and Billings.
	This is a problem with our judicial system.
	Law expert Veloso notes that 80% of prison population is in a similar situation to King.
	Waiting for trial in a case that will be decided within a month...
	Waiting for trial on a case that will be decided within a month or even a week because people have already served any potential penalty that would have eventually been given to them.
	According to Statistics Canada, since 2004, the average number of adults awaiting trial or sentencing in provincial services is higher than the average number of adults sentenced to custody.
	In recent years, it's about 70% or higher.
	Similar problem in the United States.
	And the people who are clamoring for bail reform, for justice reform, are also clamoring for the continued detention of Pat King and Billings arrested on mischief charges because they're their political adversaries.
	You know, for the dude who ran over four people with his car, Winnipeg, protesters, judicial reform, you can't imprison, you can't keep people in pretrial detention.
	It has a disparate impact on minorities.
	It's an abuse of the system.
	It penalizes the poor.
	It penalizes certain demographics.
	But Pat King?
	F him.
	In Ontario and most provinces, more than half the people in jail are awaiting to be tried and sentenced.
	For King, he's going to be in preventative detention for a while.
	And if you look into the overall trends of criminal punishment in Canada, he probably already served his time.
	Well, Fraser, I'll give you a credit for at least reporting on it.
	Thank you.
	Sorry, I haven't been watching the chat for a long time now.
	Here, this is the link.
	I'll just put it in there twice.
	You can go watch it.
	Hold the line inherently implies defense.
	Christopher Fisher, the tyrants have twisted our language in uncountable ways.
	Hold the line.
	It's funny because we put out a shirt.
	It's the Barnes classic.
	Never forgive, never forget.
	Hold the line.
	It came up in the GameStop situation.
	But I know for sure it came up with Tyson.
	When you are so egregiously wronged that with an enemy of a certain lack of morality, never forgive, never forget, hold the line.
	Incidentally, I have a more attenuated philosophy.
	When they're your friend, forgive and forget.
	When you're not sure, forgive and verify.
	When they're your enemy, forgive but remember.
	I love Barnes.
	I'll take my philosophy over Barnes's, but then again, Barnes is the tip of the spear when it comes to actually litigating these things in court.
	But Pat King is still in jail, people.
	Nobody cares.
	Because it was the Ottawa protest.
	They're crazy racist truckers, xenophobes, transphobes, anti-black racists, misogynists, anti-Semites.
	And when I was out there documenting it, who did I interview?
	Black Canadians.
	Indigenous Canadians.
	Transgender Canadians.
	Jewish Canadians.
	I met a man from Iraq.
	Poles.
	Venezuelans.
	Romanians.
	Yeah, no, but they're totally, totally...
	Who are you going to believe?
	My lying mouth, Justin Trudeau, or your own lying eyes, citizens of the world?
	Let's see what we got here.
	I just saw someone said they agreed with me.
	Here we go.
	Well said, Viva.
	Agreed about Barnes.
	I understand where he's coming from.
	You need the people like Barnes because they will go after the Tyson Foods, the liars, in a way that needs to be done.
	And if you don't have that, you don't have people holding to account the most egregious of liars.
	When it comes to the politicians in the last three years, I am prepared to probably never forgive and certainly never forget.
	What they've done to society.
	I can't bring that chat up.
	Okay, let me see if I've missed anything on the Rumble Rants before I...
	If nothing else right now, I've got to call it quits and relieve myself.
	People, there are no Rumble Rants to read.
	Thank you all for tuning in.
	I think that was a great insightful interview.
	And I'll say it loud and I'll say it repeatedly.
	Leah Thomas?
	Lillian Gallagher?
	Any day of the week, you're welcome to come on and we'll have the discussion.
	I will tell you not to read the chat, as I'll tell, you know, Ariadna Jacobs not to read the chat, as I'll tell Michael Tracy not to read the chat, as I'll tell many guests in real time.
	If you're going to get distracted by what the internet is, don't look at it while we're talking.
	Any day of the week, you are welcome.
	I have questions.
	I'd like to hear your perspective and I'd like to get that perspective out there.
	So that people can know what the arguments are, and they can agree to disagree, or I dare even say it.
	Maybe we can recognize what the problem is in order to find the proper solution.
	People, screw your chat sauce.
	The chat is the place for unfiltered honesty or people just exploiting what the anonymity of the internet is.
	You will find that the most hurtful Comments in the chat, you probably tend to see some truth in.
	The ones that are just outright annoying, big deal.
	But you can't have an open discussion and then censor the chat.
	You can't do it.
	You can censor for the, you know, sex bots, spamming, and terrible stuff.
	And I don't mean terrible subjectively.
	Any calls to violence?
	Targeted harassment?
	Freedom of speech is not the freedom to threaten.
	Other than that, yeah, you gotta read it.
	If it irritates you, think about why it irritates you.
	If it irritates you and it shouldn't, get over it.
	If it irritates you and it should, think about it.
	Hmm.
	That might have to go on a shirt.
	Okay, peeps.
	Go.
	Enjoy the day.
	Tomorrow will be live, I said.
	Noon.
	Noon sounds like a good time.
	No, noon.
	It has to be noon because Derek is coming on and he's not Eastern time.
	He's mid-Canada, Central, I guess.
	Dr. Feelgood, you can send me the...
	Oh my goodness, it's Dr. Smith.
	Nice avatar.
	Oh, there's no mods.
	Viva is the mod.
	There might be two.
	There might be two if Eric's in the house.
	Or Nate.
	I think those are the only two with actual mod capabilities.
	Viva, are you going to do an interview with James Top reaches Ottawa?
	It depends on where I am, but I'm going to be in Ottawa on Wednesday to live stream James Top's meeting with the MPs.
	So Wednesday, I'm live streaming probably all day from Ottawa.
	James Top meeting with whichever MPs have the courage to show up and meet him.
	They bust James Top, who's marching across Canada, in from wherever he was in Ontario to meet with MPs.
	They're going to ship him back out to where he's going to continue marching onto Ottawa.
	I'll be there Wednesday.
	So Wednesday, live from Ottawa.
	Tomorrow, live from here.
	And it's going to be fun.
	Love.
	Viva.
	Valhalla awaits.
	Thank you very much.
	That looks like a...
	Oh, it's a ram head.
	Oh, yeah.
	It's a ram.
	Okay, cool.
	Enjoy the day, everyone.
	And brother, pissed off dragon.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	What do we got here?
	The Biden Senate testimony I sent you on Twitter.
	Oh, I'm going to go watch that.
	Nobody's arresting.
	I'm there to document.
	But yeah, these are legit concerns that we have to have in a free country.
	Do I risk getting arrested to livestream document a meeting between someone who is marching across Canada the way...
	Terry Fox tried to do.
	And meeting with members of parliament, do I risk having my bank account frozen and being punished?
	These are questions you always ask yourself in a free society.
	Okay.
	Do it.
	Go.
	Enjoy the day, people.
	I will see you tomorrow.

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