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June 8, 2022 - Viva & Barnes

02:56:20

Live Stream with Behaviour Analyst Spider - Johnny Depp, Amber Heard & MORE! Viva Frei Live

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	We don't want to talk with you, actually.
	Why don't you go and f*** up then?
	You go.
	F***!
	How can you slap?
	How can you slap?
	How can you slap me?
	Okay.
	F***!
	F***!
	There's a reason why I'm starting with that.
	How can she slap?
	First of all, if nobody has seen...
	Sorry, if nobody...
	If there's anybody...
	Left in the world who has not seen that video.
	You have to go watch that video, if only to be a part of internet meme viral video history.
	I remember that video in real time at the time it happened.
	And it's one of those things, you don't like reveling in the misery of others.
	There's no but.
	There's a but.
	I mean, that video was hilarious in a way.
	Unbelievable, unfathomable, and I think probably illustrative of a great many problems in society, and very much related to the Amber Heard-Johnny Depp trial, but related not just in whether or not women can assault men type question.
	Related in the sense that the man that we have on tonight...
	For this, it's not a sidebar without Barnes.
	It's just a live stream.
	Spidey, behavioral arts, body language expert.
	I shut down the screen.
	I want to watch that one more time.
	We'll do it when Spidey gets up here.
	Max Power.
	Max Power.
	Homer Simpson's name from one great episode of The Simpsons.
	Welcome to the channel.
	Spidey, the behavioral arts analyst specialist.
	Body language reading has a very pretentious, almost like tarot card reading or palm reading.
	People don't put a lot of weight on the legitimacy of body language reading because in a sense, anybody can read what they want into it.
	When you're right, you're the smartest person on earth.
	And when you're wrong, well, everyone forgets about it.
	But there is something to be said about psychology, understanding human nature, and using those skills.
	To dissect what people say, attack their credibility, or bolster their credibility.
	And some people do it better than others.
	Some people are better at predicting.
	Some people are better at interpreting.
	Some people know what they're talking about because they have meaningful insight into the human condition.
	Spidey, I dare say, is one of those individuals.
	And his initial video, which went...
	Viral's not the word anymore.
	Videos get millions and millions of views.
	When a 33-minute video gets 13 million views and he broke down the Chris Rock, Will Smith slap, which launched him into stardom, I only learned this recently, and we're going to get into all of this.
	When someone does it well and when someone does it with insight that allows you to draw conclusions and lessons from the human condition, you know they're doing something good, success leaves clues, and Spidey, who...
	Made his mark on the interwebs in breaking down the Will Smith, Chris Rock, slap heard around the world.
	Has cemented that name for himself in the field of behavior analysis in the context of this Johnny Depp trial.
	He is here tonight.
	Before I bring him in, standard disclaimers.
	YouTube takes 30% of all Super Chats.
	We are or should be simultaneously streaming on the Rumbles, which I think we are.
	Hold on one second.
	Rumble has the equivalent of Super Chats called Rumble Rants.
	They take 20%, so better for the platform.
	You know the shtick.
	If you want to support me, other than Super Chats, whatever, me and Robert Barnes, vivabarneslaw.locals.com, or you can get merch at vivafry.com.
	Okay.
	It was a fake slap.
	We're going to get...
	Okay, it's the subject of the evening, one of which...
	What was I going to say?
	That?
	No medical advice, no election fortification advice, no legal advice.
	And this is probably going to be as apolitical of a discussion as you're going to be used to on this channel.
	Yes, we're going to talk a lot about Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.
	And if you don't want to talk about it, tune in tomorrow when I do a live stream and, you know, talk about January 6th committee.
	Oh, sorry, people.
	I forgot.
	Again, let us bring in the Spidey.
	Let's see.
	Three, two, one.
	He's in.
	Spidey, sir.
	How are you doing?
	I'm doing great, man.
	I had no idea what was happening when this video started and I saw a woman slapping a guy and the guy losing it.
	And I'm like, what?
	Am I supposed to analyze this?
	Such an honor to be here, man.
	Thank you for having me.
	Thank you for coming.
	Had you ever seen the How Can She Slap original video?
	No, that was my first experience with that.
	Okay, that video.
	I don't know how old it was.
	That's one of the videos where you watch that.
	No one is ever going to think that it was not spontaneous.
	Spidey, before we even get into anything, I always do the same thing.
	Elevator pitch.
	Who are you for those of my channel who may not know who you are?
	Well, my real name is Bedros Akalian, but my stage name is Spidey.
	I am a behavior and body language analyst.
	My degree is in social psychology.
	I have a certification in criminal interrogation, and I'm an award-winning mentalist, which means that for over 10 years, I've gone on TV shows and theaters all across the world, and I use my skill set to entertain.
	So it's kind of like psychic entertainment, but we never call ourselves psychics.
	It's a derivative of magic.
	But it's a lot more psychological, and we sort of read people and predict things.
	And it's a mix of trickery and psychology, and it's super entertaining and a lot of fun.
	Now, some people may not know this, but you're a fellow Montrealer.
	We actually have totally unknown.
	I didn't know you were from Montreal, and I once heard you were from Montreal, and you're into the magics and best friends with one of my older friends, but not a very close friend.
	Born and raised in Montreal?
	Yes, sir.
	In fact, I was wondering, do you know the legal stuff better than I do?
	Because of this whole Law 96 thing, are we supposed to do this whole interview in French now?
	What's going on?
	What do we do here?
	Not yet, but when Bill 96 and Bill C-11 come in, I may be more screwed than you, but we're all screwed in Canada.
	Bill 96, for anybody who doesn't know, it's the language law revamping Bill 101, and it's going to require a certain...
	If Bill C-11 passes...
	We might have to have a certain amount of content in French on our platforms.
	Yeah, no.
	Spidey, have you contemplated moving if things get a little too hairy?
	Yeah, look, I mean, yeah.
	The moment it starts impeding on my freedom to speak...
	I speak fluent French.
	I grew up with it.
	I went to French high school.
	It's not a problem.
	I love the language.
	But the moment you start telling me what I'm supposed to speak in my own home or in my own business, it's kind of crazy to me.
	It just sounds nuts.
	So you're born and raised in Montreal.
	Achillean is of Armenian descent, if I know my last names.
	Look at you with your analysis.
	Yes, that's correct.
	I'll impress you with even more one more thing.
	I know the I-A-N is Armenians in diaspora, and Armenians from Armenia have the Y-A-N for the suffix on their last names?
	Yeah, yes, that is accurate.
	And it means...
	Most here are I-A-N.
	Okay.
	And it does mean son of, right?
	Son of Akil?
	Not son of, but like a certain belonging of.
	Like belonging to, like it could be like, for example, you might have like one last name that means belonging to this family.
	Another one might mean belonging to this country.
	Another one might mean belonging to this profession.
	Like if you say, for example, I'm thinking of a profession that would make sense.
	Like, for example, Derderian.
	You might hear that, and derder might be like reference to religious, someone who works in religion, so their family worked maybe in the church or something to do with the church.
	So it indicates a sense of belonging to something.
	Okay, very interesting.
	Now, I mean, let's start from the beginning.
	Born and raised in Montreal, high school doesn't really matter, but how do you get into becoming?
	I know you're a magician, a mentalist, and a recognized one at that.
	How does that path even start?
	For me, it was...
	A forever passion.
	When I was younger, I loved the idea of magic.
	I love to go to magic shows and things like that.
	But when I was younger, it was more about knowing what the secret is because it bugged me not to.
	And then once I knew that was it, I was done with it.
	I had a couple little tricks I would do for my friends and stuff.
	But I really got bit by the bug when I was a teenager.
	I was 17. I was in Vegas with my dad.
	He was there for work.
	And I was walking in the forum shops at Caesars and I saw...
	A shop called Houdini's Magic Shop, which whoever's been to Vegas has seen it.
	There's like these guys who do all these tricks like on this elevated platform at the storefront and then they just sell all the tricks.
	So I bought them all and I was obsessed and I went back home and started doing it, learning more, getting more and more into it.
	Went to a local magic shop, got a job there demoing tricks because I got really good really fast.
	Got obsessed, read more, learned more, watched more, followed more and it just snowballed from there.
	And now I have this, I have a, what's the word?
	A preconceived notion that in order to be a good magician, you have to be exceedingly smart.
	I mean, I don't think, you'll tell me, are there any unintelligent, truly stupid magicians?
	Or am I correct that you have to have very sharp intelligence to be good at magic and good at, what's the word, mentalism?
	Do you want names or do you want examples?
	So listen, I...
	It's going to sound a little self-serving or arrogant maybe, but you set me up for this.
	I do believe that to be a great magician or mentalist, it does require a certain amount of intelligence because you have to innovate ways to at the very least present the thing.
	So there are magicians out there that have this very hacky vibe to me, like very kind of cookie cutter, like sort of they feel very old school.
	Nothing's new.
	It's the same tricks that they bought.
	Lend nothing to it.
	They didn't elaborate in any way.
	They're doing it the way it was described in the little instruction book we get when we buy a trick.
	And they're just sort of regurgitating those sort of classics.
	But whenever you see a fresh magician with a fresh vibe, pieces that they innovated themselves, methods that they innovated themselves, some really brilliant creators out there.
	And it's kind of a very interesting thought process to create magic because you have to create methods that you know are going to inherently deceive people.
	A lot.
	So it's really an interesting creative process.
	So I do believe when you see an original magician out there, a successful magician out there, it does speak to their intelligence.
	I would say at the top tier magicians that you can name are all very intelligent people.
	Can you pull a rabbit out of the hat?
	Okay.
	Jokes aside now.
	We'll get into your education in a second.
	I remember, I forget who told me, that there's three types of magic.
	You have your sleight of hand, you have your mathematics, and you have your gimmicks.
	That's a weird way to classify that because if you say that, then you're discounting the fact that...
	So you mean in method?
	Okay, sleight of hand meaning dexterity, mathematics in terms of self-working logic stuff.
	That kind of makes sense.
	And then the gimmicks.
	Okay, fine.
	I'm on board.
	I thought we were going to talk about the different types of venues like close-up magic, stage magic, mentalism, social media magic.
	But yeah, in terms of method, I agree that...
	If you were to classify how a magic trick works, it would come down...
	Well, okay, I'm going to add a fourth one.
	There would be sleight of hand.
	There would be mathematics, which is like a mathematical principle at play.
	There would be the gimmick, which is like a secret little device that does some of the work for you.
	But I also think the human element is a big part of it.
	The way we present things, the way we say things, the way we shape the presentation to make you remember or perceive things a certain way, I think patter has a big part to do with it as well.
	So I'm going to throw that in there.
	No, and then I think that's where it gets to the part of knowing the human condition and responding in real time to the human condition.
	And before we get into the mentalism, what do you study in order to actually get into magic and mentalism?
	That's a great question.
	A lot of you, and there's a super chat here I want to address, which is highly coincidental, the green one here.
	Yes, I am.
	So, Haley, hi.
	She says, so I'm on a Netflix original series called Brain Child.
	And she says her kids are watching today, and she swears I was on there.
	That is correct.
	I was, in fact, on there.
	Brain Childs is a great show for anyone who has Netflix, or if you have kids or grandkids or nieces, nephews.
	It's for kids and teens.
	It's educational, and I'm the psychology expert on that in a couple of episodes.
	Really great series.
	Anyways, just saw that, wanted to address it before we lose it.
	What do you study to become a magician and mentalist?
	So a lot of sleight-of-hand presentations.
	So basically, the basis of mentalism is magic.
	So the same way a magician knows what card you pick, the mentalist can know what your birthday is or what word you're thinking of from a book.
	It's a hard method.
	And this is the thing where it gets a little slippery with mentalism because a lot of mentalists like to claim that they're connecting with your thoughts and they could feel this in your energy and it's not what we're doing.
	At the basis of mentalism is hard method like magic.
	We study this in books, videos, mentorship.
	There are schools for it.
	It's not a degree or an education in that sense, but there's a lot of resources out there.
	A lot of those resources I've created myself.
	I have products out there for magicians.
	Uh-oh.
	Who's frozen?
	Am I frozen?
	Hold on, chat.
	Who froze?
	Is that my internet?
	It might have been yours.
	Let's see who was frozen.
	According to the chat, who froze?
	Me or Spidey?
	Doesn't matter.
	We're back now anyhow.
	We're going to get to you to actually reference your products, but you were saying...
	Yeah, yeah.
	I'm not trying to sell product.
	I'm just saying, like, we create.
	I'm going to get some for my kids.
	I think they want to get into magic.
	I just don't have the patience.
	I'll totally.
	I'll come over for lessons.
	You're not that far.
	We could have done this interview in person.
	Seeing people in person makes me uncomfortable.
	It's so weird.
	We're like a few kilometers from each other.
	We could have easily done this in person, but I'm in a basement studio that is not...
	I'm so sorry about this.
	This has never happened, but I've turned my Wi-Fi on, so if my wired internet starts dropping, the Wi-Fi will pick up, hopefully.
	I really apologize.
	It's fine now.
	Don't worry about it.
	Okay.
	Hold on.
	Cameron Bessie says, Oh, snap.
	You're the shrink on a child's show.
	Are you willing to describe your views on family-friendly?
	No.
	We said no politics tonight, people.
	Okay, sorry, Spidey, what were you saying?
	Yeah, sorry about that.
	I turned my Wi-Fi on now, so that should pick up if the wired one drops again.
	So yeah, so the basis of mentalism is magic, but where mentalists differ a little, and some, not all, is we'll add that behavior analysis and that little bit of body language so that I don't simply bring someone up and go, okay, think of a number, 36. Like, I can do what we call cold readings, and I specialize in cold readings, where based on the...
	The way the person moves, some of the body language, some of the decisions they make, what they wear, the way they communicate with others, I see certain things, I pick up on those things, I understand how they work, and I use that to make my mentalism more effective, more stronger, something you connect with, as opposed to something you just present.
	Okay, and now, what do you study to get into this?
	You mentioned something about a criminal...
	Yeah, so my degree is in social psychology, and that's where my fascination with understanding people started.
	So, well, actually, I say social psychology to abbreviate, but I went to Concordia, which you know, and my major was in sociology, minor in psychology.
	So I studied those two disciplines.
	That's where my understanding of how we socialize, how we connect...
	But on top of that, I really wanted to get into body language and stuff.
	And a lot of that education came from books and also my own work in mentalism by exploring certain different things.
	But I also have a certification in criminal interrogation.
	So a lot of this stuff is used in interrogations, interviews.
	But if you look at a lot of people at the top of CIA interrogation, FBI agencies, and all these people who study that, there's a lot of really interesting stuff on the study of body language.
	And verbal communication, nonverbal communication, lie detection, which is a very taboo topic.
	But yeah, all that stuff is part of...
	I studied personally with interrogation techniques.
	Okay, so sociology, social psychology, that's an undergrad, it's a BA?
	It's a BA, it's a bachelor's degree.
	And then the criminal...
	The criminal studies?
	I forget.
	I'm losing the word now for some reason.
	It's a certification for criminal interrogation.
	So what is that?
	Is that like a two-year program?
	Is it a one-year program?
	That's not a degree.
	That was a certification that I took with a mentor that offers like a course, like a week-long course.
	And so these things are most like online.
	There isn't really a degree for behavior analysis, although there is a degree for something called applied behavior analysis, ABA, but that's a completely different thing.
	That is a form of therapy for individuals that are on the autism spectrum.
	It has the same term, applied behavior analysis, but it's a very different discipline.
	Behavior analysis, there's also behavioral psychology that some people study.
	That's a degree.
	You can get a master's in it.
	But yeah, it's kind of hard to say specifically where you learn as a degree, body language or behavior analysis, because it's kind of, you can get the information from multiple different sources.
	Someone says do a trick with Viva and I don't want to ask you to perform.
	No, I will.
	I'm ready.
	I'm ready for it.
	I'm ready for it.
	Well, I'm going to start that.
	We're going to come back to that because I want to get to your credentials before we actually see you do something.
	Oh, I am.
	What do I do?
	So a Bachelor of Arts in, call it sociology, psychology.
	After that, what do you do?
	Are you doing, I presume, like professional training at the same time, which is not a diploma, but rather certification.
	I'm learning from Yeah, so there was two programs that basically shaped what I know.
	One is from Joe Navarro, which is...
	If you talk to most people about what is the main book, the main resource of body language in terms of literature, a lot of people are going to talk about Joe Navarro's What Every Body Is Saying.
	It's a great book about body language, but he also offers instructional videos online, a lot of which I followed.
	But my...
	So my certification in criminal interrogation was I followed the program of my good buddy Chase Hughes.
	You know the panel, right?
	Yeah, for sure.
	We've had all of them on, actually.
	As you know, Chase trains interrogators, FBI, CIA, law enforcement.
	So I did his entire program, both live and virtually.
	There's a course he offers.
	On his website, it's terrific.
	It's an in-depth dive on interrogation.
	It's phenomenal.
	I highly recommend it.
	But he also has live trainings, which I've done.
	So a lot of my training came from him.
	But again, just a lot of like being on that stage night after night as a mentalist and applying these things and seeing these subtleties and learning from people and doing these cold readings for people.
	I think that's where the most sort of application side of what I do came in.
	If you had to perform one, I mean, I didn't want to do this, and if you don't want to do it, let me know.
	I mean, is there a good one you can do that's easy enough to...
	Yeah.
	Bear in mind, people, this is not a setup.
	I didn't even ask, and I didn't know that we were going to go into this.
	I want to talk about Amber Heard, but what can you do that would blow people's minds?
	Let's blow some people's minds.
	Okay, so here's the thing.
	When it comes to doing an actual cold read, I'm not going to do that virtually, because...
	It's going to sound cheesy.
	I do need to be in the same room to kind of connect a little more.
	Also, whatever I say about you, well, they're friends.
	They have friends in common.
	You could have researched them.
	You could have asked around.
	But I will demonstrate what mentalism as an art form is, and then we can even talk about some principles that go into this.
	Let me see if I can do something here with...
	You know what?
	Let me see if I have...
	This is to further elaborate how much I'm not ready for this.
	Oh, you know what?
	Let's do this.
	Let's do this.
	I love this idea.
	Sorry, guys.
	You can literally see that I wasn't ready for this.
	And I'm going to blow everyone's mind right now.
	I'm going to tell everyone to think of a fruit and then take the last letter of that fruit.
	You've got a fruit?
	The last letter of the fruit.
	Think of an animal.
	It's an elephant.
	And I guarantee you, at least 50% of you out there got elephants.
	Amazing.
	My kids are watching these TikTok videos, and they have these 30-second, one-minute presentations.
	And I said to my kid afterwards, try to pick a fruit that doesn't end in an E, and then think of an animal that starts with an E other than an elephant.
	Oh, aardvark.
	An emu.
	Alright, and someone got some fruits.
	Let's go.
	Let's go with this.
	So, we're going to have Viva.
	What do you fans call you?
	David?
	Viva?
	Viva Frey?
	They call me Viva.
	Viva.
	So, Viva.
	We're going to do a pretend movie night.
	And there's two elements to this.
	One is...
	Here, which I'm going to write something down soon, and the other one's going to be here.
	You know what?
	I'm going to write this down right now, actually.
	And I'm not going to be that smartass at the show who tries to screw with the performance.
	I'm not going to try to...
	Okay.
	I'm curious as to even where you're going with this.
	It's a pretend movie night.
	I'm going to put this here.
	I wrote something...
	I'll show you.
	I don't want you to see the ink bleeding through, but I wrote something down on this piece of paper.
	I'm going to put it inside this acrylic box, and it's going to stay...
	Over here in full view.
	I won't touch that.
	I won't mess with that.
	So we're going to have a movie night.
	And there's two elements to this.
	And in movie night, you pick two things.
	You pick the snack and you pick the movie.
	That's the way it works.
	So let me see if I can, maybe if I tilt this down so you could see my table a little.
	Let me move my computer out of the way.
	We are improvising this, ladies and gentlemen.
	That's how you know it's totally random.
	Like, and Diva, again, this is, a lot of this is going to depend on the fact that, like, we did not discuss this in any way, shape, or form.
	Everyone knows me and I would tell people if we had discussed it.
	I didn't even know we were going to go here.
	And I'm actually uncomfortable because I don't want it not to work and then everyone in the chat to think Spidey is...
	Dude, you only bring the best guests on.
	This is not going to work.
	You wouldn't bring some mediocre hack.
	I didn't know your credentials as a musician.
	As a musician, yeah.
	I didn't even know.
	I subsequently found out.
	It's actually mind-blowingly impressive.
	Okay.
	So here it is.
	Here it is.
	Ready?
	So on movie nights, we pick two things.
	We pick a snack and we pick a movie.
	So this is actually a system.
	This is legit.
	I have a way to pick my snacks.
	To not overindulge because I'm a giant disgusting snacker.
	So I have like a bunch of index cards here with some of my favorites and I'll show these to you.
	You can see like pretzels and cherry blasters and Twizzlers and Doritos.
	You could see that and salt and vinegar ruffles as soon as I specify the flavor.
	Gummy bears.
	So you can see as I drop these, I want you to see like on focus.
	These are all different, right?
	You saw that?
	Yep.
	Okay, there's about, I think, 35 of them, more or less.
	I'm going to do this so nobody can know where any of them ends up.
	And before you choose one of these, I'm going to try to figure out which one you're going to choose.
	See, there are some people who say, like, because what we're going to do in a moment, I'm going to go through these one at a time.
	And can you remove my title here so that you can see the stack on the table?
	Let me see.
	Or is there a way to make...
	If you go into your settings, there's like a...
	Right at the top of the customize or something or the...
	There's a place where there's a little...
	Okay, I'm going to delete it and then I'll put it back afterwards.
	Yeah.
	Display name.
	I think I have to have something.
	I'll put in a period.
	Okay, there we go.
	A little dot.
	There we go.
	Perfect.
	So, see, so...
	I'm going to try to sort of anticipate more or less where you're going to say stop.
	I think it'll be right there.
	I think you're going to stop me exactly on this.
	I'll even go a little further in putting this.
	You are going to stop me exactly on this snack.
	I've written it down.
	I'm gonna put it right here on top of the box, on top of the plastic box.
	That way I can't switch it.
	It's in full view.
	You guys keep an eye on that.
	I can't switch that, change that, use any sleight of hand or anything like that.
	Viva, we're gonna make this enormously fair.
	Don't overthink it.
	As I go through these one at a time, at some point you're going to say stop.
	Again, don't overthink it.
	Trust your gut.
	Just go with your feelings.
	Say stop.
	Clear your mind.
	That'll help.
	Here we go.
	I'm going to go through them one at a time.
	You say stop when you like, and I'll go like this.
	Stop.
	Right there.
	I stopped when you said, right?
	One before.
	Can you take it back or no?
	You want to go back?
	Yeah, take one back.
	How many?
	Just one.
	Okay, so put that back.
	Put that back.
	Okay.
	So it's interesting how you may put that back.
	So I went through, you said stop.
	You said, no, go put one back.
	I don't want that one.
	So we go one back.
	That's where we're at.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	It's interesting that you did that.
	And I went one back because you could have said, okay, one more.
	And that would have been the one, but you said, put it back.
	And that would have been peanut M&Ms, which it almost was.
	It could have been peanut M&Ms.
	Actually, I want to keep this in frame.
	Sorry, because I don't want you guys to think.
	I promise you, sorry, I'm not used to that frame.
	I didn't switch that when I pushed it out.
	I swear on my life.
	It was sitting right there.
	I just pushed it right out of frame.
	Do you trust me or do you want to keep going?
	No, no, no.
	I trust you.
	I promise you there's nothing happening there.
	That's exactly when you said stop it.
	I didn't realize that it cut out of the frame.
	You could have said stop one before and that would have been Twix.
	You see that, right?
	That's the one I had in my head.
	Which is funny because I'm kind of doing Twix for you now.
	But I have Twix up my sleeves.
	So you said stop right there.
	And again, if you want to keep going, we can.
	No.
	That's the one.
	Okay.
	Remember, he could change his mind.
	But he said stop right here.
	What does that say?
	Can you see it?
	Sour cream and onion Pringles.
	Okay.
	Could have been one later.
	Could have been one before.
	Could have been deeper in the stack.
	Could have been anywhere.
	But you said stop right near the top.
	And that was sour cream and onion Pringles.
	Viva, did I touch this piece of paper that entire time?
	No, you have not, sir.
	It was sitting right there on the shelf.
	Let's see what the chat has to say.
	Hold on, we're not done.
	We're not done.
	That is the...
	Wait, there's more.
	Okay.
	But wait, there's more for $9.99.
	You can now learn.
	No, I'm kidding.
	You get the references.
	So many people don't get the reference.
	Okay.
	What reference?
	But wait, there's more.
	Some people are not familiar with the infomercial.
	Really?
	The old infomercial thing.
	So, okay.
	Let's go to the box here.
	This is going to be a little special.
	We're going to pick the movie now.
	We have our snack.
	It's sour cream and onion Pringles.
	But we're going to now pick the actual movie.
	So here's what we'll do.
	Viva, just to further randomize this a little.
	Viewers, drop some movies in the chat.
	Drop some movies in the chat.
	And Viva, when you see one you like, but one that you think most people would be familiar with, pin it and tell us what it is.
	Because I want everyone to see that it's actually coming from the chat.
	Like a legit subscriber.
	And then Viva's going to pin it for you.
	I'm not going to have anything to say here.
	I'm not going to influence this anyway.
	You guys name movies.
	Movies that you think are pretty popular enough that most people will have heard of them.
	And then Viva's just going to pin one and let us know which one he's going with.
	Do I let you know now?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay, well, someone in the chat knows my weakness.
	I have pinned Pulp Fiction.
	Okay, Pulp Fiction.
	Great, great movie because definitely one of the movies that almost anybody would know, but not necessarily the one that comes to mind as being the most popular.
	Pin it, though.
	Let's see it.
	Did you lose it?
	I believe it should be pinned.
	Yes, it's pinned.
	No, I mean, pin it to the chat.
	Like, bring it into the stream.
	Oh!
	Hold on one second.
	Because I want everyone to see that that was a legit choice that someone made, and I want to talk about the person who made that choice.
	Okay, well, this is not the original person who made the choice.
	Okay, but numerous people did, and that's fine.
	That's what you chose.
	But Dice is one who made that choice, and other people made that choice.
	So if you guys know Dice has, or Dice can assure us that he or she has no way in on this.
	Dice is a consistent commentator, not in on it.
	Yeah.
	And Viva, you and I didn't discuss this either.
	We didn't talk about movies.
	Absolutely not.
	But Viva, do you remember how before we started, I took a little piece of paper, I wrote something on it, I folded it up and I put it inside that box?
	Yeah, I remember.
	Have I touched the box?
	Not that I know of.
	I haven't.
	There's been a piece of paper inside the box and I said I wrote down one thing on it and one thing alone.
	It was also pretty snug in the box.
	I want to make this as clear and honest as possible because I want you guys to see.
	Come on.
	Come on.
	I want you guys to see.
	And I'll keep this in frame at all times because, you know, the fairness of this depends on it.
	One piece of paper, right, Viva?
	Yep.
	Inside the box, nothing else.
	Nothing hitting my hands?
	No.
	I'm going to do this so freaking slow.
	It's...
	I mean, I know conceptually how this has to work.
	I just didn't see it.
	Okay.
	You're too smart.
	Okay.
	Spidey.
	Fantastic.
	And you do this, first of all, I mean, with the success of your YouTube channel, I don't know if you're doing gigs anymore.
	Oh, absolutely.
	I got back from a tour in Florida last week.
	I have a bunch of corporate gigs this week, actually, locally.
	Yeah, I still very much tour.
	Oh, Angel's here.
	Angel's one of my devote followers.
	I hope she follows you as well.
	She's awesome.
	Hi, Angel.
	I love magic.
	I love it.
	That's fantastic.
	Thanks, man.
	So, yeah, I still very much do shows.
	And, you know, for like two years, it was all virtual.
	It was all like this.
	It was like, you know, whether it was corporate functions or colleges or whatever it was, I was doing it like this where we do a stream and we bring six or seven people into the stream and I would read their minds and predict things through the screen like this.
	But now I'm slowly going back to doing live gigs.
	I mean, it's fantastic.
	It's fantastic, and I'd love to see.
	Yeah, I'll let you know.
	And there's a local one that you can come to.
	I'll absolutely come by, bring the kids.
	I don't leave the house very much anymore.
	Okay, great.
	I'll set up a camera in the back, and you can watch the whole thing.
	Okay, now, Spidey.
	So, mentalism, you hone your practice over many, many years.
	It's been well over a decade.
	You've followed courses online.
	Did you study with Navarro?
	Or only with the behavior panel guys?
	No, not the behavior panel guys.
	I've done Chase's program.
	And, you know, Navarro, I've studied his work, but I haven't done his program, his certification program, which is great.
	I might one day do it.
	I don't know how, like, I'm sure I'll learn a couple of things, you know, because the guy's amazing at what he does, but I haven't done his certification program, no.
	All right, so now that we have all of this as a backdrop to, you know...
	What a lot of people have known you for, body language, behavior analysis.
	What do you call what you do in terms of your breakdowns of The Slap, Amber Heard, reading people?
	What do you call it?
	I call it behavior analysis.
	Okay, so not body language reading because that's sort of too...
	I think it's part of it.
	So I think I split behavior analysis into...
	How people move and what people say.
	And that's what I pay a lot of attention to.
	So yeah, I think body language is definitely part of it.
	And yeah, I often use body language analysts as well because people understand what that is a little more.
	Well, thank you very much.
	What a kind compliment.
	So yeah, body language analysis, behavior analysis.
	A lot of people in my industry will say like, you know, human lie detector.
	I'm not comfortable with that term at all.
	I don't love that.
	I think behavior analysis and body language.
	Analyst is a good one.
	First of all, you have a YouTube channel, a magic-themed YouTube channel with 350,000 subscribers.
	How long have you been doing that for?
	That channel has existed for 10 years, or more than 10 years, but let me tell you what existed means.
	It was sort of there, occasionally I would drop videos on there, like a TV appearance or like a promo video that we put together or this thing I would do.
	It wasn't curated.
	I wasn't a YouTuber.
	It was just like my professional YouTube page where we would, don't change the subject, how?
	So I would throw in random things.
	Thank you guys for the feedback on that trick.
	I'm glad you guys liked that.
	I would throw in, like, random promotional stuff and, again, TV appearances and things like that.
	And then one day I decided, like, I'm going to do YouTube.
	I'm going to do YouTube.
	And that was about four or five years ago, maybe a little more, where I started seriously, like, vlogging and doing advice for magicians.
	Some tutorials.
	So if you guys are like, how did that happen?
	And you want to learn some fun things you could do at home for your friends and family, my other channel, Spidey Hypnosis.
	It has tutorials.
	It has even a playlist that's called easy to master tutorials where you can learn fun little tricks, a bit of psychology, a bit of sleight of hand to, you know, you could do around the office, at work, at school.
	So I really started curating that, doing streams, doing all these things.
	And at some point I said, okay, well, I also want to do my psychology stuff because I have a lot of background in persuasion, body language, behavior analysis, and I wanted to talk about that.
	So I started making those videos, but I was seeing conflict within my demographic.
	I was pulling in people who were interested in this psychology material, and then the magicians were still there, and they were like, you know, these guys wouldn't watch this content, these guys would watch that content.
	So it was kind of conflicting within my own demographic.
	So I said, okay.
	I'm going to start a new channel for behavior analysis.
	And it might never be a big thing.
	It might just be a separate little thing where those who are interested in the psychology work can go learn from there.
	And then that blew up massively.
	Just massively.
	And here we are.
	And now I'm going to go pin your second channel.
	The Spidey Hypnosis Replace Pinned Message.
	There we go.
	Yeah, because that's the thing.
	You go through these learning curves and these...
	Growth pains on YouTube where people come for magic and they don't want to stay for behavioral analysis.
	People found you because of the behavioral analysis, not interested in the magic.
	You got to niche it and make sure the two remain separated for audience.
	What's the word?
	Appreciation.
	And for YouTube to know how to put your channel to the right people who are going to engage with it.
	So you have the spidey hypnosis, which is sort of magic.
	And then how did you get into the behavior analysis?
	You mean in terms of YouTube?
	In terms of YouTube?
	Yeah, I think we know how you did it in life.
	Okay, so what it was was actually interesting.
	I started by doing videos where I was analyzing the show The Mentalist, which was the TV series.
	Remember the TV series The Mentalist?
	Yes, with that guy who...
	Patrick Jane.
	He was like, he solved crimes.
	So it was very like Sherlockian style thing.
	So I started doing...
	You know, real mentalist analyzes the mentalist.
	So I was talking about, you know, how possible the things he does are, how likely, how much they reflect reality.
	So it was me just reacting.
	It became a series, and I did a lot of videos on that.
	But what ended up happening is a lot of the time I was talking about, because he's really a sensational character.
	There are elements of him that are very unrealistic.
	So I would break those down.
	I would say, listen, what he's doing there is meant to look like he read this person's body language and knew this about them.
	But that's not really something you can know with certainty.
	You could take a guess and you can go down that path and that assumption and see where that goes.
	But sometimes he has these confident things that he says and I'm looking at it going, it's just not that realistic.
	Although there are other parts that are really realistic and he does things that a mentalist would do.
	So he operates the way a mentalist would.
	So I was breaking that down and a lot of people seem to appreciate that knowledge of like, okay, so...
	That's interesting.
	Body language doesn't work that way.
	How does it work?
	So I started doing some videos where I was analyzing actual real people with body language.
	And the feedback was really good, but the numbers weren't growing because, as you said earlier, a lot of the magicians were like, this isn't why we're here.
	Although some were.
	Some were like, this is amazing.
	But it wasn't the main reason a lot of them were there.
	They just wanted to learn tricks.
	So I said to myself, okay, I need to give this room to breathe and see if it could be its own thing.
	So I did that and I started a new channel where I was analyzing, you know, celebrities or social media influencers and videos and footage and interviews and things like that, interrogations and all kinds of stuff like that.
	And then all of a sudden, Will Smith happened.
	And I analyzed that.
	And literally overnight, my life changed because that went to amounts of virality that I didn't even imagine this channel would ever see in its entire life.
	And then after the Will Smith thing, the Johnny Depp trial happened.
	I never came down from that.
	I'm still up there.
	So now I don't know where we go from here.
	You made that video.
	Emily DeBaker is here.
	Oh my God.
	Hi, Emily.
	Where is Emily?
	She's in the comments.
	Look for the two purple hearts.
	Will, if I send Emily a link, might she pop in?
	Maybe I'll see if I can do it.
	Okay, Emily, I'll send it to you.
	By the way, Emily is really good at behavior analysis.
	Well, so I have a belief that, you know, I wouldn't call myself a behavioral, a body language expert.
	But when you practice law for long enough, when you practice anything that involves human interaction, if you want to thrive at it and be good, it will involve...
	Picking up on human cues to know when you're being lied to, when someone's not telling you what they want to, et cetera, et cetera.
	Absolutely.
	I believe it's an actual thing.
	Whether or not you're good at it, it'll be determined by your predictive capabilities.
	I agree.
	I think getting good at recognizing patterns is really important.
	And then I think the other thing about it is like...
	So for me, I've read the studies.
	I know the research that's out there.
	And there's a lot of reasons.
	It's one of the things that blows my mind about body language.
	We'll go, this isn't researched.
	It's enormously researched.
	There's a ton of research on body language.
	We know a ton of things about how people tend to behave when they're stressed versus happy versus relaxed versus sad, anger.
	There's tons of stuff out there.
	But the thing is this.
	Not one of them applies to every single person, every single scenario.
	So yes, experience.
	It brings you the capacity to gauge more appropriately when the exceptions are happening.
	For example, furrowed eyebrows and tight jaw is usually associated with anger, especially for me when I see the upper eyelids open up.
	This is anger, typically.
	But you might see this in someone really focusing on something, too.
	If someone's really focusing on something, you might see the furrowed brows, you might see some tension here, you might see some signs of nervousness as they're just reflecting on something.
	Yes, the research shows us that this, this, and this is anger, but it takes experience to know that it's not always 100% the case.
	So I think that's where research meets experience.
	By the way, Little Rock, another lawyer in the house.
	Little Rock, I hope everything is going well.
	Viva Frye and Emily D. Baker.
	Good evening, guys.
	Glad I caught some...
	Of the show live.
	I have been so busy with Court and he had a new prosthetic leg as a result of illness.
	Leg is working very well, still not using in jury trials.
	Little Rock, good to see you again.
	And Emily, if you're watching, I DM'd you the link.
	No pressure whatsoever, Emily.
	DM'd you in Twitter if you want to jump in.
	Pressure.
	There's no pressure.
	I'm kidding.
	I'm kidding.
	So, like I say, to be a decent lawyer, to be a decent cross-examiner, to respond in real time to human cues, it means picking up on them, and it means not being wrong.
	Like, you pick up on a cue and you think you've got someone and you haven't, well, you're not going to do all that well.
	So, as far as cross-examining, getting the information out, milking them in a proactive sense, grilling them in an active sense, it's an actual thing.
	And I was curious as to your experience as to how you got to where you got to in terms of your level of analysis.
	Watching you during Johnny Depp, you certainly have the terminology which indicates professional training.
	I think one of the terms was duper's delight that you use, which is an amazing thing to identify it, but then also to have clearly indicated that you studied it, you know the terminology, and you know how to find it.
	What are some behavioral patterns?
	That have names.
	So you have Duper's Delight.
	I mean, it's endless.
	There's so many terms.
	Like if we just look at facial expressions that indicate stress or deception, we have wing dilation.
	That's when the nose opens up to bring more oxygen to the body.
	That's actually, I think, a Chase Hughes term.
	Or at least he teaches it that way.
	I don't know if he innovated it.
	We have, what else do we have?
	Oh my God, there's so many endless cute little industry terms.
	We have...
	Turtling, when we close up like this, chin comes down, shoulders come up when we're feeling...
	And turtling, how appropriate.
	You use the turtle emoji, I have my tortoise.
	So turtling is when we're feeling a little self-conscious, a little defensive.
	Lip activity, we have things like lip compression, lip retraction, tongue jut.
	Tongue jut is a tight...
	Jen Pasaki tongue jut, which lizard tongue, it looks like.
	Well, yeah, it's like a tense sort of like pushing out of a, like a disgust.
	Actually, tongue jut has, there's two different contexts in which tongue jut is used.
	One is like when we don't like an idea, like sort of leaves a bad taste in our mouth.
	But the other is Joe Navarro actually talks about tongue jut with the tongue clamping down, the teeth clumping down on the tongue, which is this.
	And I associate with a sound, which is like, and it's when you're almost caught doing something or you're caught doing something.
	It's like a...
	What else do we have?
	What do you think of this one?
	I've read a bunch of books now, but who did I read?
	I got them on audiobooks.
	One was FBI Interrogation.
	The other one was Six Minute X-Ray.
	I forget who wrote them all.
	Chase wrote Six Minute X-Ray.
	It's amazing.
	They're all amazing.
	If you just retain six to ten lessons from each book...
	That's pretty darn good.
	What do you say about the one of, you can't really see it, but hands over your groin to cover your spot?
	Oh, so genital blocking or fig leafing.
	Those are the two terms for that.
	So it's either genital blocking or fig leafing, and it is something I look for.
	So here's the thing.
	Here's where nuance comes in, right?
	There are a lot of men, I hate this term, I've always hated this term, and they do something called genital framing.
	And we see this in like clubs and bars with, I don't like to stereotype, but you know what?
	You know the type.
	What is genital framing?
	I can't even visualize it.
	So genital framing is when, I hate this so much, is when the hands are not blocking the area.
	So a lot of body language, if you look at the reason it exists, is because of the way that we evolved.
	We are one of the only animals in the world.
	Whose reproductive organs and main vital organs are exposed, which is why when we feel self-conscious, we block them.
	We protect them.
	It's very normal.
	We shield them.
	So it's very normal.
	To me, it makes perfect sense that if I'm comfortable, I'm open, I'm exposed, and when I'm stressed, things start to come in as I hide these things.
	That's why genital blocking happens.
	We're very aware of our reproductive organs and the fact that if they get damaged, we can't reproduce.
	So when we get self-conscious, we might...
	You know, a leg might come over, an arm might go down.
	We might see women often do that one arm across like this when they feel self-conscious, blocking this area.
	Men will do this.
	But genital framing is a little different because you're not blocking it, you're calling attention to it.
	Okay, so I know why I've never done this before.
	Take it in for a sec.
	Do you know what the funniest thing is?
	I can only relate this to something in my life which is by no means personal.
	There's a real estate broker who has a picture and the picture is a woman standing and I guess it's genital framing in that it's literally like this.
	Oh no.
	Like this.
	Oh wow.
	The worst thing about it is that it's a black dress on a black backdrop and all you see is the beige hand making a circular It's interesting.
	Never thought of it.
	This is the theory, I forget, of which book I listened to where they say you could stem it back to What is the hierarchy of needs?
	Is it Laszlo's hierarchy?
	Maslow.
	So Maslow has faced quite a bit of criticism, but that's going back to my degree.
	Sociology, psychology, Maslow is right up in there.
	It's faced some criticism, and there are certain scenarios that Maslow doesn't work.
	So Maslow is the hierarchy of human needs.
	At the bottom, we have the most basic possible things you need to live.
	Oxygen, food, I think shelter is in the one above.
	Oxygen, food, just like the basic stuff that you need to live.
	And then right above that is security stuff.
	So like clothing, shelter, things that you acquire to be comfortable in life.
	Then above that, Maslow was right, though.
	I agree.
	Yeah, water.
	Water is a good one right at the bottom.
	And then above that, we have social needs.
	Friendship, family, like being in touch with those people.
	And then we have, what's the one after that, before self-actualization?
	Let me pull it up, you know, instead of just saying things because, you know, streams get immortalized.
	Well, anyways, everyone knows.
	And I didn't even know we were going to get here.
	No, I love it.
	No, and I don't want to put you on the spot.
	It's just, I read these books.
	I retain maybe 5% of the books.
	And I thought it was Laszlo, but that actually was somebody I know.
	Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
	In terms of explaining human behavior, it's a great concept.
	At the bottom, we have physiological needs, which is food, water, clothing.
	It's blurted out.
	Safety and security is next.
	Health, employment, property, family, and social ability.
	Well, family should be in love and belonging.
	Love and belonging.
	Oh, it is there.
	Interesting.
	Families in both.
	Friendship, intimacy, sense of connection.
	Then it's self-esteem.
	That's what I can remember.
	Self-esteem is confidence, achievement, respect, and then self-actualization is at the top, which is like, Morality, creativity, spontaneity, acceptance.
	Like, that's the stuff you can take care of once you feel like all the basic needs are met.
	So there are things you can bring up that put this into question.
	And I think there are two good examples.
	One of them is, for example, if you look at a vegetarian or a vegan, right?
	They give up certain foods that they would probably enjoy for...
	Sorry, sorry.
	They give up...
	I'm trying to remember how this plays into it, the skepticism on this.
	So if you look at someone who's a vegetarian, yes, they're giving up basic requirements, which is food and stuff like that, for love and belonging, self-esteem, self-actualization, because they care more about environment and they care more about animals.
	And I think that's really noble.
	I think that's really great.
	My question is this.
	If, and it's a question, it's not a statement.
	If they were pushed to the limit, because we're talking about survival here, not comfort, not...
	Luxury.
	If they were pushed to the limit and they're starving, would they make that same decision?
	No.
	I mean, that's the old religious principle that the rules of kashrut, you know, you keep kosher, but if you have to eat to survive, you break the rules to survive, but you don't, as the old rabbi once said to me, you don't suck the fat off the bone.
	And I said, that's because you've never tasted.
	Pork chops.
	Okay.
	But you know what I mean?
	So I feel like it's a decent criticism to say some people can make that concession and make certain decisions like that.
	But I feel like when it comes down to survival, yeah, you're going to eat.
	And then another one that I've always found interesting is a parent will, in most cases...
	Defend their children with their lives.
	So they will not think of their own basic needs at the base of the pyramid.
	They will protect their young.
	And that kind of counters some of what Maslow says.
	Because unless you look at production as a physiological need, in which case your child is the result of your reproduction.
	So you add some credence to these ideas that there are certain inherent...
	a blanket rule give you an indication as to certain things uh the one that i saw coming up a lot in the depth trial at the very least as relates to amber heard's testimony was the exposing of the neck area in an attempt to look vulnerable yeah um now so there's this is where it becomes the question Not arguing from the conclusions, but interpreting things to fit what you believe.
	Some people say it's a sign of authenticity when someone exposes themselves up to be vulnerable.
	It shows they're being honest and vulnerable.
	Or they're trying to manipulate you by giving that impression.
	Yeah.
	So let me throw another binary your way.
	Yeah.
	When we're feeling comfortable around someone...
	We tend to see that head tilt.
	So naturally speaking, you're rarely going to see a head tilt.
	Rarely.
	Not never.
	Rarely.
	You're going to see a head tilt and someone's uncomfortable because it's very vulnerable.
	It exposes a vulnerability.
	But some people, when they're feeling confrontational or aggressive, will purposely do that to show that they're comfortable.
	So think of like a rapper on the rap album, right?
	What are they doing?
	Genital framing and head tilt.
	It's a classic pose.
	They've got the thumbs hanging.
	I love how we're going back to that stupid framing thing.
	But you know what I'm talking about, right?
	Where we have that classic pose where we have the rap album cover like this.
	We have the person posing.
	Hands are hanging right here.
	And we've got this sort of head tilt like this to the side.
	Like, I feel confident.
	This is what I'm trying to project.
	The cool pose.
	Thank you, Hollis.
	This is something we see.
	So yes, you have to consider both binaries.
	So we see a gesture.
	One, does it mean that the person's actually comfortable?
	Or are they trying to portray that they're comfortable?
	Meaning that they're actually not comfortable.
	And when it comes to this, two things.
	I'm sorry.
	I'll stop bringing them up.
	I don't want you to read them in real time.
	Thank you for the super chat, Ian.
	I think that was intended to be a joke.
	My goodness.
	Okay.
	Sorry.
	Carry on, Spidey.
	Sure.
	So two things allow us to have a decent guess as to where we're going to go with that.
	One is experience, just hard experience.
	And you know, like you said, when you've been in that courtroom enough times and you've seen that really come out and you've seen that feigned, you eventually start to realize or develop this feeling as to what you're seeing.
	That's one.
	But two, and I think it's more important, is what else is happening?
	What else is happening in the body?
	What else is happening with the face?
	What's being communicated?
	Because we rarely look at one isolated thing.
	We typically look for clusters.
	The more signs we see of one thing, the more it raises our confidence.
	But I and most good analysts never speak in absolutes.
	So if we look at Amber, for example, we see this sort of...
	Her turning to the jury, and that's called the confirmation glance.
	A lot of people commented on this.
	You know, when Johnny was testifying, he was very inwards like this.
	We saw that turtling, like I mentioned earlier.
	He had this slow sort of cadence as he was telling his story, and there was hesitation, self-editing.
	There didn't seem to be a huge priority on...
	Is the jury buying this?
	He didn't constantly talk to them.
	And he didn't use these big sort of gestures and ways to sort of connect.
	He was just down there telling his story.
	Every now and then he would look at the jury.
	But it was still from a turtle position like this, just to check, like, you know, they're still there.
	But Amber was constantly presenting to the jury.
	When we saw her sadness, for example, typically, and look at anyone who gives a sad speech.
	Look at the moment the sadness hits.
	Anyone who's giving an obituary or anyone who's giving any sad speech, look at Matthew McConaughey recently.
	He was at the White House.
	He gave a very sad speech.
	There was an NFL coach as well last week who gave a very moving speech about the tragedies happening.
	And when sadness hits, the moment sadness hits, typically, again, I always say typically, we tend to want to hide it.
	We go downwards.
	And we might even go, sorry.
	You know this gesture?
	Sorry, just one sec.
	I know it because it's the way I react because I'm not one to want to...
	Seek pity.
	What's the word I'm looking for?
	Seek recognition for my emotional reaction.
	And whereas that's the way I am, but other people might specifically want...
	No, so that's a great point.
	As a reflex, most of us aren't.
	Because again, if we look at the way we evolve, if you show your vulnerability, you show your weakness, it doesn't lend itself to your survival.
	We hide our weakness.
	So typically, mostly when we get sad, again, typically, we want to hide that.
	It's very rare that we have enormous sadness and that we put it on display.
	This is why a lot of people felt that Amber's expression was very strange.
	They were saying she keeps looking at the jury and it's weird.
	It's not weird that she's looking at the jury.
	It's kind of weird that she did that much, but the thing that feels weird about it is, in moments of sadness, very few people put it on display like that.
	Look at how sad I am, with this exaggerated frown, and she had this head tilt going on, and she's really presenting it to the jury.
	So, when I look at all those things together, for me, and I could be wrong about this, but for me it goes, I feel like she's really trying to get pity from this jury.
	A bunch of other things that she'll say.
	Actually, before you get there, I'll just share this right now.
	You can see this, because this, I think, is a prime example to illustrate what you're talking about.
	Hit me hard.
	And at first, it was just to throw something, smash some things.
	He loves to smash up a place, an apartment, furniture.
	That's what it started with.
	Glass, threw glass at me, and I started to notice the pattern of escalation where he'd...
	This wasn't the one I was thinking about, but I guess it's good enough.
	Throw glass or turn over a table.
	Then he would hit the wall, and then he'd hit the wall really close to my head.
	I believe that he would do things like that, like break property, damage property.
	We saw evidence of it eventually, so it doesn't take a behavior analyst to see that.
	Let me see if I can find the one that I intended to do.
	The title here says that she's going to talk about it.
	Yeah, but...
	Yeah, somebody in the comments said, my dog stepped on a bee, followed by that expression.
	Well, that was over the top.
	It's insane.
	Witness, is it here?
	Okay, I think this is...
	It's the one that was eight and a half.
	Oh, for goodness sake, this is not it either.
	The one...
	Hold on, I should probably just...
	Okay, forget it.
	I'm going to do this.
	Share screen.
	This producer.
	Oh, here we go.
	Full testament.
	This is the part.
	Okay, check this part.
	I'm trying to point out how absurd it would be for him to keep making me prove this by calling me a liar.
	I was trying to get him to not call me a liar because everything that I had said to date and everything I've said to date now is the truth.
	And I was begging him not to make me prove it, that there were photos, that there were witnesses, that there was my testimony.
	So who was it that referenced the order in which she...
	Okay, good.
	I remember things.
	I just don't remember who said them anymore.
	Explain the point that you made right there, the hierarchy of the order in which she presented those elements.
	So again, this is purely experienced speaking and...
	And it has its caveats and exceptions.
	So look at the way...
	What she's trying to say here is...
	What she's trying to do here is a persuasive argument.
	And that's another thing I've studied enormously.
	Persuasion.
	Not just in my degree in social psych, but throughout that.
	With mentalism, we use a lot of persuasion.
	I've studied hypnosis, so this is all part of it.
	And what she's doing here is an attempt at persuasion.
	She's saying, I was begging her to not make me prove this, and I'm proving this, and I have all these things.
	So then she lists the things that she has.
	So if I'm trying to persuade you of something, and I have a list in my head of things that are going to allow me to do that, I'm usually going to build up and end on the biggest punch.
	So let's say, for example, that I want you to come with me to a restaurant, right?
	And I'm inviting you right now, Viva, to tell you, like, let's go to this restaurant.
	And it would be weird for me to say something like, the food there is some of the best I've ever had.
	And then after that, to say something like, and it's a nice big dining room, and they have live music.
	Like, it feels weird to start with the main thing that I want to use to get you to go, and then move towards other sort of smaller things.
	Usually we build up, we say, Dude, I got to take you to this restaurant.
	They have live music.
	It's a nice, you know, open space.
	There's a nice terrace.
	And the food is absolutely amazing.
	Doesn't that feel more naturally the way I would progress?
	Absolutely.
	To end on the big thing.
	Now, when we're excited about something, it might be different.
	If I say, like, I can't wait to go to this restaurant, the food there is so good.
	Because that's what I'm excited about.
	So in excitement, we might name the big thing first.
	And then kind of...
	Throwing the other things as, yeah, yeah, also the music's great and the thing is nice, but the food is so good.
	I might start with that.
	But usually if I'm trying to persuade someone, I build up toward the bigger thing.
	In this case, she goes, I was begging to not make me prove this.
	We're seeing an enormous amount of scanning the jury, trying to connect with them, looking at them.
	And then she goes, I had photos.
	I had...
	Testimonies?
	No, I had witnesses.
	Witnesses.
	And I had, and then she paused and she goes, and she even slows down on us because I had my testimony.
	Like, that's the big one.
	Spidey, Emily, get ready.
	Emily Baker's in the house.
	And now we're going to go like this.
	I'm going to go on the bottom only so that I only cover my mug when I bring up a chat.
	Emily!
	Oh, it's okay to cover my mug too.
	Hey everybody, it's good to see you.
	We've got the expert of the Johnny Depp trial of the coverage.
	We've got the expert of the body language analysis.
	And we've got me.
	I'm the moderator.
	I can field the questions as I've heard.
	Emily, how are you doing these days?
	I'm good, tired, busy.
	I don't know what to do with myself if I'm not streaming 12 hours a day.
	I need to make changes here.
	Tell me you're changing the lights to purple.
	That's what I'm doing.
	I was going to say, by the way, that your backdrop was similar.
	I love it.
	I love the lights.
	It's beautiful.
	I got this awful fireplace behind me with that duck picture.
	Emily, by the way, my wife says it.
	At some point, live streaming becomes, I won't say an unhealthy addiction.
	It becomes an addiction.
	It's like being at a casino and saying, well, I could be gambling right now.
	In the sense, we're here.
	It's always there.
	And it's impossible to sleep in Vegas for a reason.
	But yeah, there's always something to do.
	Emily, how much have you been sleeping?
	Not a ton.
	I felt a little bit like being in my own trial just based on how much, not just covering it, but then distilling it onto shorter content and then summarizing it onto the podcast.
	So it's a lot of content.
	And then there's other work that still has to get done.
	There's other obligations that still get done, still have kids and a husband and a family.
	And then...
	Right after the coverage, I was on a complete media blitz.
	There was a lot of requests for comment.
	I thought it was important to lend comment that was not part of the, you know, traditional media, I don't know, talking points, I guess, and help to lend some of not the traditional talking points, because I think sometimes saying this isn't a setback to women everywhere needs to come from a woman.
	And I was hoping.
	Hopeful to do that on as many platforms as possible and just be like, this is not what this is.
	And some were willing to have me, some weren't.
	And that's fine.
	And then I hopped on a plane and went to a concert and it was great.
	And I kind of was off my phone for a number of days in the real world with real people and it was a lot of fun.
	What was the concert?
	Dave Matthews Band.
	Two-night stand of Dave Matthews Band in Charleston, Charleston, South Carolina.
	Is a very good time.
	It is a very, very fun city.
	So we had a really nice time.
	It's one of my good, good friends from the district attorney's office.
	And then we know people because we go to Dave a lot.
	We're those people.
	We go a lot to Dave.
	And so you see people from all over the country that you know from other shows.
	And so I got to go be in the real world.
	And now it's back to trying to catch up with all the other cases that I put on hold for six weeks.
	It feels like a never-ending treadmill.
	That's it.
	I mean, there may not ever be another Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial, but if Rittenhouse does sue Whoopi Goldberg, Whoopi Goldberg, we might have it.
	Spidey, in all of your analysis, have you gotten any calls to break it down for, call it the mainstream media?
	Legacy media, yeah.
	I was on Fox 26 Houston.
	I did a recap.
	Awesome.
	Yeah, great feedback there.
	Uh, and then a lot of media like internationally, I don't deal with it myself.
	My manager usually just sort of, we got a lot of requests for people to use directly clips from my video in articles and sort of overseas.
	And, uh, you know, he just sends me like, can I, could I license this timestamp?
	And I'm like, yeah, or you have to include that.
	Cause sometimes they want, sometimes they want just that little nugget of thing I said, but I go, no, no, you have to give a disclaimer with that.
	You have to give this context disclaimer.
	You can't isolate that.
	Certain things like that.
	So yeah, a lot of media outlets took little clips and reposted them.
	Vlad Bible did two articles on it.
	But yeah, in terms of mainstream, Fox 26 Houston in America did a piece.
	Spider, you're incredible.
	It's just been incredible.
	It's been incredible to watch you break this stuff down.
	I love it.
	Emily, it's crazy.
	Because you and Rob, there's two.
	And I haven't had a chance to talk behavior analysis with too many of the other ones.
	But Rob from Law& Lumber...
	He gets it.
	And Emily, you get it.
	Like, Emily will say things sometimes, and I'm like, damn it, do I tell people that I had missed that?
	It's just a different perspective, though.
	I mean, I was a litigator for 10 years, so my world was...
	My world existed in a courtroom day in and day out, and I didn't just do trials.
	I also did preliminary hearing, which is sometimes 15, 20 cases a day.
	So I have a lot of experience asking people questions, and I'm also ADHD.
	Get very kind of hyper-focused on things, but I also sometimes miss social cues.
	So I also had to navigate that in my own life of neurodivergence in school.
	And, oh, did I say too much?
	Did I not say too much?
	Am I overstepping?
	Am I too much?
	Like, always worried about being too much until I got on YouTube and I was like, deuces!
	We're just going to be too much.
	We don't care anymore.
	That navigation.
	You're being too much while observing, while reading comments, while responding in real time.
	Spidey, you don't do live stream reaction in real time, eh?
	No, because I feel like I would be doing a disservice to the followers.
	I think I'll eventually do live streams where I watch something once with the viewers and then I watch it again with the viewers and watch it a third time with the viewers to see.
	What I pick up the second time, third time.
	But if I were to just do live reactions, I feel like I might say something.
	I really edit tightly the things I say because I don't even want to say something that could be misinterpreted or present something or just say something without thinking and then be like, I shouldn't have said that that way because that could be misconstrued as this.
	So it's the reason I don't do live stream reactions, but I might do something where...
	I take the time to do it again and again and correct myself and self-edit myself and have a chance to really say what I want to say as opposed to just speak sort of erratically.
	I love the purple hearts in the chat.
	And I know when people have come from Emily.
	I know when people have come from Ricada based on verbiage.
	And I know when they've come from Emily based on emojis.
	This is what I love about this part of the internet, though, is we have so many different creators centered around stuff that we're all nerdy about and different ways of having those conversations.
	And I think that for all the articles that want to be like, oh, the so-called lawyers or the lawyers of YouTube or whatever, we're creating open discourse on the internet in a respectful way that doesn't exist elsewhere on the internet and asking our audiences to do that.
	It's just so incredible.
	I love it.
	I love it.
	I don't know why I keep getting blocked by blue checkmarks on Twitter.
	I'm not even that bad.
	You're pretty mild.
	I'm pretty mild, but I think I might be getting blocked because of etiquette.
	Because what I do is I respond in the thread and then I retweet with my comment.
	And so maybe that annoys people because...
	Why?
	I don't know, because maybe they think it directs my crowd onto them and then some of my crowd might be a little...
	Harsher in the critique, but I've been on a roll of getting blocked on Twitter.
	But hold on.
	Emily, Spidey, let's let this run for a few more seconds just to see.
	There's one part here which I find...
	I didn't watch the full eight hours again.
	I remembered where this was.
	Watch this.
	Spidey, your reaction.
	Emily, your gut reaction as to the truthfulness.
	Years of me with injuries.
	Let me see here.
	And that he knew about.
	The audio's off for some reason, but...
	So I'm going to take you now fast forward into the July 2016 timeframe.
	There was a mediation that came about during that time.
	What, if any, intent did you have to reconcile with Mr. Depp at the time of the mediation?
	I wanted there to be no animosity.
	I wanted to minimize animosity.
	I wanted to reconcile in that way.
	I didn't want to get back together with him, if that makes sense.
	Just general demeanor.
	I mean, that was not the substantive part of the discussion, but Spidey, general demeanor.
	What are your observations?
	More of the same.
	One thing I'd like to make note of, and again, Emily should be able to talk about this at much more length than me.
	We often saw this sort of heavy emotion when she was talking this way, and then the question would come, she would turn for the question, and that emotion would just wipe off.
	Yeah, it was gone.
	It's a little sudden for me.
	And this wasn't the best example of it.
	There were other examples where, especially during objections, where something's happening and she's in that spiral, and then there's an objection that comes, and we just see her sort of, and cut.
	And one particular case where, and I covered it in one of my videos, where she was objected, she cut, she went down, and then when the judge said, go ahead, she picked up exactly at the same place.
	She restarted the sentence.
	Well, what you missed, Spidey, is the judge said, and seen.
	And so it just started again.
	So she didn't say resume.
	She said, and roll.
	Is it roll action or scene theme?
	And action.
	Take eight.
	So I did notice that.
	It felt like a director yelling cut because she went into that sort of place and then she picked it up again, starting with the same words as the last sentence, which is what we do on TV sets.
	We're told to do that.
	If you mess up on something, take a sec and...
	Pick it up at your last pause.
	So it's weird because usually if you're emotive and you're talking, you're emotional, you say something, there's an objection.
	I'm still going to be in that place.
	I'm going to continue.
	The words won't quite be the same.
	So to me, it kind of felt like there were these several moments where it just wiped away.
	And here we go again.
	Emily, go.
	You know, I know Kyle Rittenhouse received a lot of criticism for breaking down on the stand when he was reliving what had happened that evening and what he did.
	And they had to take a break for him to get it together.
	That is much more consistent with what I've seen when witnesses and victims become emotional on the stand.
	There is no fast recovery when you get highly emotional.
	You will see people fighting it back on the stand because they don't want the jury looking at them.
	You will see them.
	I think you call it turtling spidey.
	You will see them visibly shrink.
	You will hear them sniff, sucking snot back into their face, trying to pull tears back.
	But when it breaks through, There isn't recovering, and you normally have to take a break to allow them to recover and have a moment, and it takes time.
	I've not seen someone talk about a traumatic event that they either witnessed or were a part of or were the subject of without...
	When they got into big emotion without needing a break to recover from it, though I have seen victims completely detach on the stand and not have any emotion at all.
	And it's a very flat delivery.
	And it's like, and then he walked up to me and I could see the knife and I thought I was going to die.
	And then it felt like he was punching me and I didn't know what to do.
	And just a complete flat affect.
	Or when they get really into the emotion, it takes a while to recover from.
	I've never seen it turn off and on like a faucet.
	It's just not been my experience.
	The question I had spotted, it was one of your original videos that I discovered you through in the Johnny Depp.
	You say you've got to get a baseline for the individual.
	How do you get a baseline for a professional actor?
	How does that work?
	It's a really good question.
	Observe them when you have no reason to believe they're acting.
	No, you watch other Pirates movies.
	We learned that from the psychologist.
	I think I have a clip from the psychologist.
	Yeah, you watch him acting.
	Or you watch him in commercials.
	So listen, listen, listen.
	Viva, for me, that argument to me sounds as silly as if I was being emotional and someone were to say, well, he's a magician.
	He spent his whole life deceiving.
	Why would you think this is real?
	Just because I deceive professionally doesn't mean I'm deceptive in my life.
	There's something people ignore.
	When Johnny Depp acts, there's a process.
	He's a method actor.
	He gets into that role.
	He steps into that role.
	The set.
	The atmosphere.
	The mental process.
	The music in his ears.
	Absolutely.
	Sorry, that just reminded me of Spiegel.
	I think I have PTSD when it comes to Spiegel.
	Any reference to Spiegel just makes me go, sorry.
	No, no worries.
	Not at all.
	But yeah, you're right.
	They do a lot of different things.
	And you talk to most actors and you ask them, how do you get into a role?
	You'll rarely hear them be like, what are you talking about?
	I just get into the role.
	That's not how acting works.
	So they have this process that it's not easy.
	So to say that an actor is constantly acting, well, it comes with a warning.
	Can Johnny Depp fake certain emotions?
	Yes, he can.
	I'm doing the best job I can based on what I see.
	And of course, that comes with a warning that there are elements of this that he could be purposely hiding.
	And by the way, I did call him out on certain clusters, especially in the beginning.
	There were certain things I think he was admitting when he was talking about, especially his drug use at certain times.
	And whether he had the right to admit this or not, whether he had any business being in this trial, I don't know.
	I'm not a legal commentator.
	But there were moments where I feel we were getting some omission from Johnny Depp.
	But the argument that, you know, nothing is real with him because he's an actor, I don't believe that's true.
	Because I'm a magician and yet a lot of what I experience and a lot of what you see here on camera is absolutely real.
	I would say that 100% of the footage of my analysis that you get of me is the real me.
	There's no reason for me to turn on that deception.
	So that's just my two cents.
	It's interesting because there are actors that I...
	Well, I can't say very much like, but whose movies I enjoy.
	I look, chat, don't turn on me, but I like the Twilight movies.
	I'm basic.
	Just give me a moment.
	But I don't want to watch Kristen Stewart in an interview.
	I don't find her that interesting.
	I don't find her that captivating.
	I don't find her that dynamic, though I like some of the roles that she's played.
	I don't know if before this trial I would have sat through a Johnny Depp interview.
	He has a very wandering way of storytelling.
	I think he'd be a lot more fun with a whiskey in a bar to hear his stories.
	Like, that's the way he tells stories.
	But you can tell there are a lot of actors that you just...
	Sorry, y 'all.
	There's a lot of actors that I just...
	You see them interviewed and you're like, oh, you're a great actor, but you're not a captivating human.
	Like, your acting is very different than you just being you.
	And I think we see that a lot in actors.
	How are any of you hating if she hasn't told us if she's Team Jacob or Team Edward yet?
	Is that in Twilight?
	All that I know is...
	Did you just say, is that in Twilight?
	Yep.
	Guys, go over to Emily's channel.
	We're going to continue to stream on Emily's channel.
	I haven't even seen an episode of Game of Thrones.
	I came across an episode of Twilight.
	I don't know which one.
	It was one when Kristen Stewart was pregnant.
	I saw literally five minutes.
	I was like, holy crap.
	Yeah, that's the second part of the last movie.
	I haven't watched one.
	If I have a Hollywood crush, it's on...
	Is her name Kristen Stewart?
	It's on her.
	I like pop culture.
	Twilight was a pop culture phenomenon.
	And I am a pop culture girl.
	I am a simp for pop culture.
	I love it.
	I love people dressing up to go to the movies.
	And now my kid is starting to like the kind of retro pop culture.
	So my 14-year-old and I have been debating Team Edward and Team Jacob.
	And my kid's assessment has been...
	Why would anyone bother with Bella?
	She's boring.
	And these two dudes would be way better with someone else.
	So he's team not Bella.
	I just recently was able to watch a movie for adults.
	Not a porno.
	Just like an actual violent movie.
	You didn't need to clarify.
	The bots are here giving you away.
	You meant that.
	I watched Black Mass.
	And I didn't even know Johnny Depp was in it.
	You didn't watch enough of the trial.
	This guy looks just like Johnny Depp.
	That was a movie.
	I watched Black Mass and how out of touch I am with everything.
	I thought it referred to mass as in density.
	Whitey Bulger was so evil he was like a black mass.
	I didn't know it had to do with black mass like Christmas mass of a satanic nature.
	But then I really appreciated how good of a damn actor Johnny Depp is.
	Like, holy cow, that's Johnny Depp.
	So I appreciate it.
	So it's not because they're actors that they're always acting.
	They still have a baseline that you can use as comparing.
	At the very least, that's all I have to go on.
	If this whole thing is an act from Johnny Depp and he's this giant monster and none of us saw that, yeah.
	He fooled me.
	He fooled us all.
	I'm just looking for consistency in the way he communicates with his law team, when he's sitting at that table, the way he reacts to things.
	To what extent can someone act for that long and stay in character for that long?
	I don't think it's that likely that this whole thing is this giant charade.
	We get clues as the type of person is.
	Also, we get inconsistencies in her stories.
	There are things that do not add up.
	Enough for me to go.
	Yeah, I could see that he's hiding that and that's who he really is behind the curtains.
	There was more inconsistency in her retelling of things than in who he is.
	So you have to weigh what you're seeing.
	Yeah.
	I've been told to get a moderator to remove sex bots.
	I can do it.
	I know those sex bots.
	And they all have the same avatar.
	They do.
	It's so frustrating.
	Emily, did you notice you get the Chinese bots?
	And I mean, literally, they just spam in Chinese.
	Yeah, I started getting those during the trial.
	When my live streams were hitting on trending, I was getting hit with a lot of them.
	And we had gone to subscribers only for like 45 minutes, and they were getting through in chunks.
	So they subscribed, and then were getting through in chunks.
	It was with streaming as long as we did during the trial.
	It's part of why I broke up the streams morning and afternoon, but it took some effort to keep those at bay.
	And we have got a lot of moderators on my channel.
	I have managed to get this far.
	There are people who are authorized to moderate, but I prefer to do...
	I don't want to accidentally ban someone and then have to deal with someone saying, you banned me for no good reason.
	Okay, but hold on.
	Hold on.
	Let me see here.
	I want to bring up one more, which is going to go...
	Before you do, I have a question for Emily.
	Go for it.
	I want to talk to Emily about the...
	When the verdict was being read and Amber's reaction because I have a lot of thoughts on this and a lot of them are conflicting because there's a couple of things that throw a wrench into that because the verdict first, there was some paperwork that wasn't complete so they had to go back.
	So there was sort of a buffer there to where they kind of knew what to expect.
	At the very least, they knew at that point that someone's going to have to pay something.
	Yes.
	But then as the verdict was being read, we see Amber.
	I could tell you what we see from a body language perspective.
	For the first time, we see something that's more consistent with sadness than what she was doing on the stand because there's a little bit of that sort of downwards, eyes drooping, cheeks drooping, not this over-exaggerated, this kind of thing.
	So we see a bit of sadness.
	But for me, and Emily, please, I want to learn here about this.
	I would expect, I put myself in the position of saying, I just spent weeks telling a jury, How I was viciously abused by someone and I'm finding out now that they didn't believe me.
	I think that what I would see consistent with most people is complete grief, complete disgust.
	I think this is where she would look at them like, what?
	Before Emily answers, Emily, I'm going to float what I think Elaine did to ensure that Amber did not have a meltdown at that moment.
	I guarantee you that, or I suspect, Elaine did not tell Amber the actual total outcome.
	She said, you're one-on-one charge.
	And let's just wait for the verdict to come in.
	You're one-on-one charge?
	Yes.
	I think if I'm Elaine and I want to ensure that there's not an absolute meltdown, not that it would have changed anything, I say, it's not good, but you're one-on-one charge.
	Let's just wait for the verdict.
	Emily, do you think that Elaine did that to quell the Amber storm that would have otherwise come?
	I have a different thought.
	And I had a different thought before we saw clips of Ben Chu's interview tonight where he says the judge did not show them the verdict forms.
	I thought they saw the verdict forms.
	I thought that they knew how this went because when the jury went back out, Ben Chu and Camille Vasquez kind of squeezed hands and were smiling and they looked like they knew they had won one.
	And we saw Rottenborn and...
	Elaine put their heads together with Amber Heard, and I think they were telling her, you are going to lose some of these.
	I think that Amber Heard did not want to show vulnerability and real emotion.
	Why?
	For someone who got on that stand and was constantly trying to...
	I think it's consistent with her diagnosis from Dr. Curry.
	I think that she doesn't want to show that she believes that this is true, that she's disappointed in them.
	But I don't think she feels grief because she still doesn't think she lost.
	She thinks everyone's against her, that this is Johnny Depp's big machine of whatever, that the jury's been manipulated by TikTok and social media.
	and these are the talking points we're seeing her legal team out there with.
	I still think she thinks she was robbed.
	I don't think she internalized that they don't believe you.
	I think she feels that somehow this was manipulated, that everyone else is wrong, and that she's right.
	And that's why she looked sad, but she didn't look gutted and devastated.
	I have seen huge reactions in verdicts to the point where bailiffs are like jumping on people and handcuffing them.
	Families getting in fights in the courtroom, people wailing, screaming, falling over, just large reactions.
	I've ended up under a table twice in verdicts.
	So people do have very big reactions, and that's not what we saw from her.
	But I think it's because she was disappointed, but she also feels that this was everyone else manipulating it, and they're all wrong.
	And that's why she's sad.
	Wow.
	That's what I took.
	That's brilliant.
	No, I love that.
	Because in my analysis, I said we're seeing sadness here, but we're not seeing that gutted thing I would expect to see.
	I think the sadness is he won.
	He fooled them.
	His machine worked.
	Everyone's against me.
	This is just more of the machine.
	And that's exactly what we're seeing from her freaking lawyers.
	Amazing.
	The jury was manipulated.
	The judge didn't let the evidence in.
	See, we won in the UK.
	If this was fair, we would have won.
	And I think that's what she's, I think that's the sadness.
	It's, oh, it's again, I'm being, I'm being beat up on by every, that's the wrong analogy, but I'm being, I'm being piled on by everyone again.
	It's, this is the jury piling on because of the social media machine that's against me.
	Wow.
	So the idea that they did not see the actual jury form.
	That's what Ben Chu said.
	I was surprised.
	Well, but even bearing that in mind, unless they missed what the judge said in real time, where the judge said, If you find on at least one, you have to put in a dollar figure.
	They had to have known.
	I mean, I guess...
	But they knew someone won one.
	But I don't know if they know who won one.
	Sure.
	And we don't know.
	I had another theory that they had actually filled in the...
	Because they could not have attributed damages that quickly.
	And so I think they just forgot the zero dollars on Amber Heard's defamation.
	And all the other numbers were filled in.
	So I was operating on the basis that they knew Depp had won on at least one.
	I thought so, too.
	And, okay, but if they didn't see it, then it's all guesswork.
	That's what Ben Chu is saying, that they didn't see it.
	I want to see the rest of the interview.
	We only got clips teased because it's coming out probably around now tonight.
	I wanted to see the rest of it.
	But, yeah, I agree, Spidey.
	Her reaction seemed, I mean, seemed prepared, but it also seems that...
	No, I don't think it seemed that prepared.
	I think it seemed...
	I think there was real emotion there.
	But yeah, not to the extent of someone who's devastated by...
	And it's not just her.
	It's not just her.
	And I know lawyers are meant to stay professional and don't want to leak.
	They want to seem confident.
	But there wasn't even one point where Elaine kind of looked at her just to check in to see if she's okay.
	Elaine didn't even put a hand on her back.
	I was surprised there was nothing.
	And then Amber Heard got up and stormed out.
	And Elaine and her lawyers are still, like, just picking up their paperwork.
	Like, they didn't seem connected at all.
	Exactly.
	In fact, Elaine kind of waited for a few more people to go in the room before she went in.
	I'm not going in there first.
	You guys crazy.
	You kind of awkwardly kind of looked around until one or two people went.
	And Elaine's going on these morning shows.
	And she's like super like, this was unjust and this was wrong and all this stuff.
	And she's dying on this hill.
	You would expect in that moment, if she believed that Amber was 100% a victim and this was a huge injustice, you would see at least, I think, a little bit of a, oh my God, I'm so sorry.
	Are you okay?
	Like just even a little bit of a look, a bit of a touch, a little bit of a going after her to console her or something.
	It was just weird how...
	You didn't see that.
	They were all like, oh well, on our next case.
	Well, I think the lawyers are robots.
	They're being paid and they're saying what they need.
	They're saying what Amber wants them to say, but I don't believe they believe it.
	But speaking of that, Amber Heard recalls, hold on, where is it?
	Body language, Johnny Depp.
	Amber Heard speaks out.
	Where is the darn...
	Come on, the interview.
	Johnny Depp, the Amber trial.
	No.
	I just wonder how much Amber and her lawyers have been fighting in the days leading up to this verdict.
	A lot.
	I think her lawyers knew that she was losing.
	Oh, here we go.
	Amber Heard speaks out.
	Okay.
	Elaine.
	Oh, gosh.
	I'll take that back.
	Emily, I'm going to have a legal question for you.
	Wait, you called me Elaine.
	Oh.
	It was just on my...
	Look, it gets confusing because when people put EB for Elaine Bredehoff, I'm like, I'm Emily Baker.
	I go by EDB, but sometimes people call me EB.
	I'm like, they put EB in and I'm like...
	Wait, are you talking about me or are you talking about Elaine Bradoff?
	Because I need you to call her Elaine and I'm EDB.
	Elaine has now...
	Another name has been forever tainted by...
	It's going to be Elaine and Karen are now names that have been tainted by...
	Then perhaps Amber.
	I have a new term also.
	I have a new term also.
	In these morning interviews, and we're probably going to see it in this one, she often starts sentences with, well, you have to understand these sort of things, and I call it Elaine-splaining.
	It is Elaine-splaining.
	You're going to see it here.
	I know things that you know.
	You have to understand.
	This is the tale of two trials.
	You have to understand that.
	Because I made that up 10 minutes ago.
	Spidey, we're going to get your analysis.
	And then, Emily, I've got a legal question for you about this one.
	We are joined now by Amber Heard's attorney, Elaine Charlson.
	Brett O 'Hoff, good morning to you.
	She's going by the middle name to try to be me.
	Elaine, stop it.
	Am I projecting or does Elaine not look very uncomfortable right here?
	She looks uncomfortable.
	They also gave her a full makeover in 24 hours.
	They gave her a haircut, a whole new makeup.
	Her eyebrows are an entirely different color.
	So they did quite a lot.
	And I've been in makeup for set.
	It makes me very uncomfortable.
	You feel like your face is moving too much or going to crack or something.
	So it could just be the makeup and the glam and the lights.
	Quick story relating to that.
	So I was on the Rachel Ray show for a Halloween special two years ago.
	I love this.
	I already love where this is going.
	Did you get to make Sammy's?
	No, I just blew her mind, freaked the crap out of her with a spooky Halloween mantle.
	Of course you did.
	Yeah.
	But anyway, so when I was in the makeup room, I asked for eyeliner because it looks good on TV.
	But usually it's put for me on the outside down here.
	But this makeup art is put on the inside.
	And I wear hard contact lenses for something called cretoconus.
	It's a very rare thing.
	I have like hard contact lenses.
	So they put it on the inside of the eye.
	And when I was blinking, it rubbed off onto my contact lenses.
	And my entire appearance on Rachel Ray, I couldn't see a thing.
	It was all blurry because it got smudged.
	It looks like I'm looking at her and I look at the audience, but it was all foggy.
	I couldn't see a thing.
	The tight lining is a hard thing with contacts, for sure.
	I want to go watch that interview and see if I would have been able to detect it.
	I did it again!
	Emily, I didn't even realize she cut her hair.
	Everyone throughout the trial was talking about, couldn't she get a haircut?
	And now she's got the Jennifer Aniston doing this.
	She's got a much, much softer look on her haircut.
	I don't know if this is what she did, and in six weeks of trial, there just wasn't time, because short haircuts, well, Viva, you know, short haircuts, you know, at some point become unruly.
	But with...
	I don't know.
	Or if this was a team actually saying, hey, you need to soften your look.
	But they should have done that pretrial.
	And we know this from the OJ case, that the only attorney that was being criticized in the media about their looks...
	Was a woman.
	Was the female attorney.
	And so we know that this is something that is just a part of society.
	And when you are the attorney, it is not your job to fight society.
	It is your job to meet their image of an attorney and to lean into it.
	Really?
	Wow.
	Well, that's how I always felt about it.
	I'm not going to try to fight the societal norms of a jury.
	I'm going to try to match what they think a lawyer looks like in their head so that they won't worry about why I don't look like a lawyer in their head and they will listen to me.
	I need to just be the vessel of talking.
	I don't need them to be distracted by like, I don't know if she's very lawyerly.
	I can see tattoos.
	It's like, no, we're in a suit.
	They're covered up.
	We're not going into court with purple hair.
	It's too hard.
	So Elaine needed to know that before this trial and soften a little bit of that because Amber Heard is a very strong presence and Elaine could have been the softness to that strong presence, especially since the attorneys on Depp's side, all of them had a much softer look and presentation, even though they were just as nail-strong as attorneys.
	It's so funny when you said that.
	I thought exactly of, of, of OJ's the prosecutor who was decimated for her look and she, she softened up and then they decimated for that too.
	And that trial was a lot about discrediting her in the She couldn't win.
	She couldn't win.
	And I think our office threw her under the bus a bit, but that's a whole other conversation for another day.
	Well, it is.
	You know, it's interesting.
	Elaine was...
	It's a terrible way to think about it, but Camille was objectively beautiful at a physical level.
	Her presentation at the...
	Closing arguments.
	I think she was wearing that soft mother-of-pearl-colored dress.
	Her hair was smooth.
	And she looked very, you say soft, but attractive is beyond anyone's control, but soft in the delivery.
	Elaine, she's an elderly woman, or older, and it's not to pick on anyone's look, but if I were to go to court looking like this, unkempt, with my hair all over the place, I would get a reaction.
	You're practicing Canada.
	You have to wear the...
	We wear gowns.
	Go get it.
	Do you have a gown?
	Can we see it?
	I don't even know where that is.
	It's in storage somewhere.
	What do you mean?
	Dude, I don't go to court anymore.
	If I never see the inside of a courtroom again, it'll be too soon.
	But we do not use the wigs.
	But if I were to go to court unkempt like this, I'd get reactions.
	Elaine, it's not that she looks like what she looks like.
	We did notice it.
	It was a bizarre physical presentation.
	Unkempt hair.
	And whatever.
	But I didn't even notice it in comparison to...
	I mean, now that I feel like an idiot for not even putting it all together, she's definitely overhauled.
	It's something I've had to be aware of my entire career because if it's too much, then it can distract a jury.
	I had a juror ask me out.
	In the middle of trial while they were seated on my jury.
	And then I had to go to the judge and the defense attorney and disclose that this juror was trying to ask me out in the middle of trial, not supposed to be talking to me at all.
	And I'm like, I can't walk away in the hallway.
	Court's about to open.
	Had to disclose it.
	Got made fun of at that courthouse forever.
	Remember that time we had to kick a juror off because they wanted to ask you out?
	So I was always trying to make sure that my presence was not distracting, wasn't too much.
	It's something that female attorneys...
	Have to go through all of the time.
	So it's something that's in my calculus of, oh, this would be a better look for a jury.
	This is a much more, like, if you are a mature attorney, if you're a seasoned attorney, then you want to come across like Amber Heard's mom.
	And you are Amber Heard's mom fighting for her.
	And no one wants to disappoint someone's mom that you like.
	They're going to be like, damn it, mom's going to be mad at me.
	She didn't.
	She came across like the substitute teacher that everyone hated.
	You know, Emily, you're not wrong.
	I should be.
	A litigation strategist is on the side of what I should be doing.
	I love doing this.
	You're probably nine-tenths of the way there now after everyone has seen your analysis in real time of this trial.
	And Spidey, you might be on Team Emily with this because we're going to listen to some of Elaine's answers right now.
	Good morning to you.
	It's good to see you.
	First question, how is Amber doing?
	We saw her hearing that verdict.
	It took a long time to read.
	It was a sweeping verdict for Johnny Depp.
	How did she handle it?
	First question to both of you, because I'm still on the fence.
	Is Savannah Guthrie, does she believe her question, or is she trying to make her guest feel comfortable by looking like she sides with her guest?
	My opinion is tainted by the fact that I saw her with Vasquez and Chu this morning, and she is trying to make Elaine Bredehoft comfortable.
	Elaine's posture, however, is admirable.
	Okay.
	Spidey, what do you think?
	Savannah Guthrie, the journalist.
	I think she's really, really good at her job, and I think that she has developed a certain cadence for asking questions to make her guests feel comfortable regardless of what she's talking about.
	I think it's really hard to know based on...
	The way she speaks, what her position is, what her intention is.
	There are a couple of moments in this where we're going to see closed inwards wrist movements, like blocking in front of her like this when she says certain things about the position, Amber's position.
	And then she kind of opens up when she talks about Johnny's position.
	We're also going to see more open gestures when she's talking to Camille and Ben this morning.
	So that kind of, to me, leaks a bit how she feels about the trial, but I think she's a top pro and she's really good with her guests.
	Has a natural warmth to her tone.
	Okay, because I saw her with Jussie Simolette's attorneys way back in the day.
	And I was like, she's asking the most needling, sharp questions, but she does it in a way that almost looks like she's their friend and on their side, but gets the hard questions out.
	And she did it today with Elaine.
	So I was on the fence, but now I'm thinking she's...
	I didn't know she was an attorney at the time people in the chat pointed that out.
	Oh, I didn't know she was an attorney.
	Yeah, people in the chat, I have not independently verified.
	Well, that makes sense.
	Is her husband an attorney too?
	Because today she disclosed at the beginning of her interview that her husband had worked or consulted with Depp on legal matters.
	Chat, I'll Google it in a second.
	But let's hear Elaine's answer right now.
	You know, one of the first things she said.
	There you go, actually.
	Hold on, here we go.
	You know, Elaine's playing this.
	Handle it.
	You know, one of the first things she said is, I am so sorry to all those women out there.
	This is a setback.
	Is that before or after she said what the fuck?
	Exactly.
	Hold on.
	When did she say what the fuck?
	Presumably.
	She's like, the first thing she said was, I'm so sorry for all those women.
	That is not the first thing she said.
	There's no way that's the first thing she said.
	It's impossible.
	But if you look at Elaine's...
	Now, Spidey, you'll tell me if I'm just playing...
	What do they call them?
	Confirmation bias.
	Well, she's nodding her head no while she's making an affirmative, which leads me to believe it didn't happen.
	So let's talk about that gesture.
	A lot of people say that...
	You know, the moment you see someone do this while they're saying something, it's because they don't believe it.
	That's not true.
	A lot of people gesture like this as they speak naturally.
	We do this in disbelief.
	You know, if someone says something really cool that we are, oh, I didn't know that.
	We might do this like, wow, that's so cool.
	So it's not always what we do when...
	We don't believe something.
	But in Elaine's case, I think it's important because as we continue to watch this interview specifically, she very often does this when she says things that she believes in.
	And it's insane how towards the end of this interview, I don't remember the specifics, but when we get there, we'll see it.
	Very often, she'll switch from a yes statement to a no statement.
	And like science, she'll switch this gesture as well.
	So I do believe that for her.
	In her case, it is significant to me that here in the beginning, we're getting this.
	One of the first things she said is, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
	And it's like, okay.
	And also she's saying one of the first things she said.
	Not the first.
	There was a time in another interview where she said the first thing she said.
	And now it's almost like she thought about it and goes, I don't think people believe it's the first thing she said.
	So I'm going to amend that.
	By the way, Elaine has a lot of scripts.
	If you compare this interview.
	To CBS.
	And we see her go to script.
	She kind of stutters and then clicks it on.
	She bridges.
	She's like, I don't care what you just asked.
	Whoop!
	This is what I'm answering.
	Yeah.
	In my analysis, I compared her to a Furby or a Tickle Me Elmo, which is why I've been calling her Tickle Me Elaine, because it's like...
	That sounds so dirty.
	That's not a visual.
	That's not a visual.
	I call her Umbridge, because it's like, you must not tell lies.
	That's so funny.
	But yeah, it's Tickle Me Elaine, because she only has X amount of set answers, and that's all you're going to get, and she's going to find the most appropriate one and bridge to that.
	Well, and it's the nature.
	You get a five-minute interview, and Elaine knows what talking points she has to hit, and she's got to pivot into them regardless.
	And yeah, it was the second interview.
	I don't know which one came first, actually.
	I don't know which one she filmed first.
	I don't know the layout of these studios in New York.
	It's probably pretty close by, right?
	Yeah, it could be our door.
	And when I say arguing from conclusions as opposed to towards them, either way she did this, she either goes from one of the first things she said to the first thing she said, whereas if she started off with one of the first things and then she's like, no, you know what?
	To be more impactful, I have to say the first thing.
	Or if she started off with the first thing and she's like, well, that's a little bit implausible, so we've got to soften it up to one of the first things.
	That would be me operating from the conclusion that I think...
	Amber's a liar and her attorney is now promoting that lie.
	I don't ever go into any of this assuming Amber's a liar.
	I take everything separately and try to look at it like what am I getting from this and this alone regardless of everything else.
	I'm trying to remember when it is she said the first thing she said.
	It may not have been in either of these interviews.
	I think I saw a clip of her elsewhere.
	I'm not confident enough to say where that was from.
	Was it a mis-interview right now?
	I don't know, but she did say the first thing she said was.
	I think it was the other interview she gave.
	I don't think it was that one either.
	I think it was like in a...
	What else did Elaine do?
	She's been in a few places, and they also released a written statement.
	Okay, I don't remember.
	And I'll say one thing.
	I did not start off on the presumption that Amber was guilty.
	I came to that conclusion after the trial, and now that's my conclusion from which I interpret Elaine's...
	I started this the same way I started the Smollett case with, I can't believe someone would lie about this.
	It's such an incredibly heavy burden to carry a lie like this.
	And so that's where I started from.
	And then we worked our way backwards.
	To, oh gosh, okay.
	That's where we're at.
	All women in and outside the courtroom.
	And she feels the burden of that.
	Well, knowing the case and knowing the law, as you certainly do, frankly, it favors defendants like Amber Heard.
	Are you stunned that the jury essentially rejected her story?
	Well, you know, really what happened here is it's...
	So we're getting a couple of clues here from Savannah, and we're going to see it in a moment in her body language.
	But the way she said that...
	That the jury rejected her story.
	There's a less twisty knife way to ask that question.
	I think there's a couple of moments there where Savannah's just sort of...
	And they do it on CBS Morning, too.
	They kind of ask in a way that it's like...
	It's not, you know, the jury found her guilty or the jury found that she had...
	It's like...
	Rejected her story.
	Like, it's about the story and how they didn't buy her.
	This isn't about how they ruled this way.
	This isn't about how they found that she defamed Johnny.
	Because that's what this is.
	The jury, what do we know?
	We know that the jury found that she indeed defamed Johnny.
	That's what the verdict says.
	The verdict doesn't technically say that they didn't believe her story, but she likes to just sort of poke at that to see what we're going to get out of Elaine.
	Well, in the closing arguments, though...
	Elaine said, if you believe one of these incidents, you have to find this is not defamatory.
	And you got Camille Vasquez saying, if you believe it, you believe all of it or none of it.
	And so when you frame it with those closing arguments, I can see where they get to the question of, you told them if they believed any of it, this is not defamatory.
	And Camille Vasquez said the same thing.
	You believe all of it or none of it.
	Right.
	So maybe that's what it is then, Emily.
	That's a great point.
	Maybe it's like, By your standard, because of the rules that you set down...
	You set the rules.
	You set the rules.
	They didn't buy your...
	Can I swear on this?
	They didn't buy your shit.
	They didn't buy your shit.
	You don't invite Emily on if the cursy words aren't okay.
	Oh, no.
	Forget it.
	The SH and the Fs are not the big ones.
	It seems that there's other names that get you...
	The see you next Tuesday word, YouTube loses its mind.
	The days that those texts were read in trial...
	Every time.
	Every time the See You Next Tuesday words came out.
	And Rottenburn loved to say it.
	Every single time.
	YouTube was like, ah!
	I only recently learned what See You Next Tuesday means.
	I just figured it out right now.
	Oh, sweet summer child.
	Okay, okay.
	Here.
	We'll bring it back.
	Oh, but you haven't seen Game of Thrones.
	You don't even know the reference.
	I have not seen Game of Thrones.
	I have started watching Stranger Things.
	I'm on episode three now with my wife.
	My poor, poor, cursy word noob.
	I have watched a Rakata stream, but okay, here.
	Trials.
	Johnny Depp brought a suit in the UK for the same case.
	No.
	Nate Brody did a breakdown of this.
	This is...
	Emily, I'm going to get to my question about the law.
	Is she not bordering on unethical conduct in terms of the misrepresentation of the case, the impugning of the jury, the impugning of the judge?
	Is she not walking a line?
	And I'm not saying that because I want people to go after her.
	For my own...
	You have to vigorously defend your clients.
	But are we not walking a very fine line right here under your understanding of US law?
	I am definitely not an expert in legal ethics because I stay so far out of the gray zone that I don't even want to mess with it because I've always been taught that you start to mess with it and it's going to mess back with you.
	And then I started covering the Tom Girardi case.
	I'm like, obviously no one takes this seriously.
	But I think there is her impugning the judge and impugning the jury I think can be problematic.
	I don't know if this judge will do anything about it, but I need to look at the attorney ethics.
	I think she's barred in Virginia because those rules can change by jurisdiction and are more lenient in some and less lenient in others.
	It makes me nervous the way that she is saying that the jury didn't know everything and the way she's calling the entire legal system into question.
	It makes me nervous.
	And people should appreciate it.
	We lost the case.
	They didn't accept our evidence.
	But she's saying...
	Later on, the judge allowed evidence that would not have been admitted.
	The jury went home and undoubtedly watched the trial.
	Yeah, it's a problem.
	And she's making very unfounded claims.
	Well, she's presuming that everyone's doing what Amber Heard was doing, which was trying to admit inadmissible evidence and watching when they were home.
	So yeah, this is not a question of trying to cancel Elaine.
	It makes me nervous under the rules of attorney ethics, but again, I am not an expert.
	The rules of attorney ethics have a lot of twists and turns, and I don't...
	I don't even want to skate close to the rules, which is why I do what I do in the way that I do it, because I don't want to deal with a lot of those.
	Because even YouTube can run afoul of attorney advertising rules.
	And so there's quite a lot.
	There's quite a lot.
	I take my CLEs on it every year, and I'm still never clear.
	Well, the easiest way to avoid the problems is to stay further away.
	The easy way not to get burnt is stay further away from the fire than you need to.
	And that's why you call.
	I mean, there are attorneys that just advise on ethical stuff.
	And it's why you are well-versed, especially if you're going to go on national television.
	But Elaine didn't seem to give a shit.
	She did so much in her closing argument that was impermissible that she doesn't seem to care.
	And she didn't seem mortified.
	She seemed angry that somebody called her on it.
	Oh, actually.
	You brought it up now, Emily.
	What did she do where she was not reprimanded, but they paused, they had a discussion.
	It had to do with misrepresenting, misstating the evidence.
	She misstated the evidence more than once in what I thought to be...
	Completely improper way.
	She said that Adam Waldman essentially suborned perjury by having witnesses lie.
	And she started going into this whole kind of conspiracy theory about what Waldman would have told witnesses.
	And it was preposterous.
	And then she misstated the basic law on what is malice and still seems not to understand what malice is.
	Yeah, no question about that, actually.
	Oh, I lost the screen.
	Hold on.
	Hold on.
	Sorry, Elaine.
	Some of the things Elaine did.
	We're definitely pushing the boundaries, and I saw that more from Team Heard than I ever saw from Team Depp.
	Well, because Team Depp had the evidence.
	They didn't need to straw man summarize it or impute intentions.
	A different judge would have excused the jury and lit into that attorney on television.
	This judge was tremendously patient.
	More, I think, than was deserved by these attorneys.
	All right, now we're going to get to Spidey.
	Spidey, it is your Spidey senses, correct?
	That's the origin of your name?
	Your Spidey tingle?
	No, it's actually not.
	Actually, I grew up not far from you, Viva.
	I grew up in town of Mount Royal, which is like minutes from where you live.
	TMR, yep.
	TMR.
	And I was a camp counselor there when I was a teenager, and we had to make up names to be camp counselors, and I was Spidey.
	And then it just stayed.
	I was a camp counselor as well, Spidey.
	My camp counselor name was Shadow.
	It was?
	It was.
	There's no more Emily.
	Was it?
	Why?
	Why?
	Why Shadow?
	Two reasons.
	One, I always like to see myself as a persona when I'm in camp mode and you never know where I'm going to be.
	I was the director of the horseback riding program.
	And two, when I had gone to that camp as a camper, as a kid, my favorite horse summer after summer was a horse named Shadow.
	So it was kind of both.
	It kind of served my little, like, 21-year-old heart.
	And then I also loved being able to use the name of something that meant a lot to me as a childhood.
	Because getting back to the camp where you were a camper as a counselor is a very surreal event.
	And then you realize how close all the bars are and what your counselors were up to.
	My goodness.
	And by the way, I didn't have a nickname.
	I was a counselor as well at YCC, Y Country Camp.
	I started the rock climbing.
	Everyone should camp counselor.
	Everyone should camp counselor.
	It's a great experience.
	There is no more Emily.
	You shall henceforth be only referred to as Shadow for me.
	Well, this chat is the only one that's ever heard this story.
	So, friends.
	I'm going to show up on other streams and call you Shadow and refer to you as one of my favorite lawyers, Shadow.
	And I'm going to keep calling her that.
	They'll have to come watch this to figure it out.
	Because I love that.
	And I was a huge fan of Sonic the Hedgehog growing up.
	And one of the villains is Shadow.
	And I love him.
	And he's cool.
	I love Sonic the Hedgehog.
	I have a friend who voiced some of the characters in the video games.
	Because I have a friend who's a voice actor.
	Who's your friend?
	Scott White.
	I know the guy who voiced...
	That's amazing.
	He's also done Crash Bandicoot.
	I could talk about voice actors forever.
	I'm such a nerd for voice actors.
	I want to be part of their world, and I'm trying to figure out how to make that happen, but I love it.
	So during this trial, he would call and leave me voice memos as Johnny Depp about my coverage.
	It was hilarious.
	I performed at a gala once, and Nancy Cartwright was in the front row.
	She's the voice of Bart Simpson and Chucky from Rugrats and stuff.
	And she gave me a testimony of how much she loved my show in Bart's voice, which is awesome.
	That's incredible.
	He's amazing.
	Nancy Cartwright, I know.
	Everything else that you guys just mentioned.
	Scott White also played Gunnar Stahl in the Mighty Ducks movies, which might help a little bit.
	Played who?
	Gunnar Stahl.
	You lost it for yourself from the Iceland team.
	Yeah.
	It's okay.
	You don't know the Mighty Ducks.
	Who's that character?
	I don't remember the name.
	Why don't I remember the name?
	Was he what?
	Was he one of the players on the team?
	He was one of the players on the Iceland team that they played at the end of the first movie.
	And then the coach was like, you lost it for us.
	And he's like, no, coach, you lost it for yourself.
	And that was what I thought this entire trial.
	Every day of Amber Heard's testimony, I'm like, you lost it for yourself.
	You lost it for yourself.
	Like, this trial was yours, and you lost it for yourself.
	And Savannah Guthrie is letting them know.
	It generally favors the defendant.
	They rejected you.
	Okay, I've got someone coming up here that I filmed about that's really, really juicy.
	I think it's coming up very soon.
	I'll let you go.
	The proof was easier for him there.
	The son had to actually prove that it was true.
	Untrue.
	Substantially true.
	He didn't get to bring in his evidence in the UK.
	The court found that Mr. Depp had committed at least 12 acts of domestic violence, including sexual violence, against Amber.
	So what did Depp's team learn from this?
	Demonize Amber.
	And suppress the evidence.
	We had an enormous amount of evidence that was suppressed in this case.
	Suppressed, by the way.
	This is more legal than behavior.
	Suppressed.
	It was unlawfully withheld from court, but okay.
	It was in the UK.
	The use of suppressed really annoyed me.
	Not admitted would have been okay with me, that the judge ruled against us on would have been okay with me.
	Suppressed is more nefarious than that, and it really annoyed me because I listened to their proffers.
	There wasn't a substantial amount, and there was also a substantial amount of things for Depp that were kept out.
	So it's not as if this was a one-sided evidence didn't come in.
	Evidence has to be proper evidence, and it can't be suppressed if it's not proper evidence.
	Elaine.
	Explain what a proffer is, by the way, for anybody who might not know.
	Oh, sorry.
	At the end of one of the days of testimony, we saw baby Rottenborn Needlehoft stand up with this massive binder, and he was reading things into the record.
	What he was reading into the record is the judge, you know, we said this.
	Your Honor ruled this.
	If the ruling had not gone against us, we would have admitted this evidence so that it's on the record for the appellate court to say, oh, well, if the judge hadn't ruled this, then you would have gotten this evidence in.
	So it was preserving evidence on the record.
	And it wasn't a ton of stuff.
	And when she talks about medical records, those were all foundation for her two experts on, you know.
	On the mental health status of Amber Heard.
	Well, she talks about her, not to get too much into the law side, she talked about her medical experts in the context of physical trauma when she was referring to mental therapists.
	She used that as medical reports.
	But those were also things that Dr. Hughes had to rely on.
	They weren't suppressed.
	Dr. Hughes had them.
	They were part of the foundation of her testimony.
	Okay.
	Spidey, your senses should be tingling right now.
	Keep going, I'll let you know when we get there.
	Amber won.
	Mr. Depp lost.
	But here's the thing.
	You were able to get some evidence that you say demonstrated abuse.
	You certainly had her testimony.
	There were pictures, documents, all kinds of evidence.
	But in point of fact, the jury rejected it.
	You argued in your closing arguments that if they found even one instance of abuse, and it did not even have to be physical abuse, that they would have to find for Amber Heard.
	And they didn't.
	And the other part to bear in mind here is nothing changed.
	The op-ed didn't even...
	Savannah, I'm not arguing.
	I'm not answering.
	By the way, so...
	Go for it, Spidey, please.
	There's a couple of...
	We haven't gone to my...
	My juiciness yet, but there's a couple of things there.
	First of all, as Shadow pointed out, there's a complete deflection of the question there.
	What she's answering has nothing to do with the question.
	She does this a lot.
	Almost every question that comes up, you look at the answer, it doesn't match the question.
	I actually thought there was an edit there.
	When I first saw this interview, I thought they had edited the interview.
	Sorry.
	But this is the way she operates.
	And she'll even say things like, that's a really good question.
	And then she'll answer something.
	I'm not going to answer it.
	Thanks for asking.
	For the second time, this is the second time that Savannah's asking this question.
	You had, and Savannah actually, for Legacy Media, holds to her question.
	You had photos, you had this, you had that, and goes through the evidence and says, but point in fact, the jury rejected it.
	Even in your closing, you said you believe one, you get the verdict.
	And they didn't.
	Now what?
	And she's like, well, you've got to remember.
	And then she bridges into something else.
	Yeah.
	Also, this is where we're, again, seeing that sort of as she's asking about their side of the story, we have this very close, which isn't baseline for Savannah Guthrie, by the way.
	She has a wrist.
	I look at wrist movement a lot when people talk.
	When someone's talking and suddenly the wrists move inwards, this could be, you know, self-conscious, defensive, skepticism.
	And when those wrists open up as someone talks, this normally suggests comfort.
	And here we see as she's asking that question about the things she had, the things she presented, it's a lot of this.
	And at the end, she goes, But they rejected it.
	That's where she opens up.
	It's weird because rejected is a dark concept, but she's opening up as she says that.
	And we even see a bit of that smile.
	So if you look at Savannah, it's almost like she's opening up and happy about the rejection from the jury.
	And that's kind of strange.
	I mean, I get it.
	I get why it's there.
	It's just a little strange to see that body language with the concept of something being rejected.
	I thought she was trying to say, Elaine, come on.
	Like, come on, Elaine.
	Come on.
	I'm asking you again.
	The jury rejected it.
	Please just answer.
	And there were plenty of answers Elaine could have given and said, you know, the jury didn't find in our favor except for this one count when they really looked at the evidence.
	And maybe they needed more time to look at the evidence.
	Maybe this, maybe that.
	But she doesn't.
	She blames everybody else.
	Shadow, that's a great point because in my analysis, I said that it usually open our arms as like a welcoming gesture and it could very well be like, that is very consistent with something we might do if we're trying to get someone to open up.
	We're like, listen, you're saying this, but come on.
	Come on.
	Tell me.
	You know, like, it's okay.
	Tell me.
	So it's very possible that that opening gesture, again, this is a great example of how I can't tell you.
	Why she's opening up there.
	There's a couple possibilities.
	But it could very well be her going like, come on.
	Give me the truth here.
	Come on.
	We could tell each other.
	Cut the bullshit, Elaine.
	Cut it.
	Cut it.
	Yeah.
	We're done.
	It's over.
	I have a necklace somewhere that has the name written on it.
	I've got to go find it.
	I'm going to get you a book like this that says Shadow.
	This one says Spidey in the folds of the book.
	That's amazing.
	I have one that was sent to me by Alonard that's got a gavel.
	Hold on.
	That's cool.
	But I'm going to get you one that says Shadow.
	And you can put it on your sweet shelf.
	And then we'll be even more twins with our backgrounds.
	Sorry, go ahead, Spidey.
	I'm just listening to my friend.
	She said earlier it gets confusing when people say EB because there's Elaine Redhoff and I don't want her to get confused with that.
	There's no other Shadow.
	There's just one Shadow.
	And she's right there.
	So, Shadow.
	All right, now let's hear it.
	You'll tell me when we get to the spots.
	What basically they did here is demonize her.
	And they did, they were able to suppress.
	I'm getting, from her look now and the tone, I'm getting a very Hillary Clinton-ish thing, but I don't even want to enter that because I don't want it to turn political.
	I just get that same, that same, I say condescending tone.
	You paused it?
	We're about to get the sentence.
	We're about to get the sentence.
	Okay, here we go.
	Go.
	Spidey senses on tingle.
	The medical records, which were very, very significant because they showed a pattern back, going all the way back to 2012, of Amber reporting this to her therapist, for example.
	We had a significant amount of text, including from Mr. Depp's assistance, saying, when I told him he kicked you, he cried.
	He is so sorry.
	Elaine hasn't learned hearsay yet.
	Exactly.
	So I was about to ask, Shadow, if you're in court and the opposing person presents as evidence a text from one person to someone else and saying, when I told him this, so we have a text that says, when I told him this, he cried.
	Is that not an instant objection for hearsay?
	It's complete unreliable hearsay.
	You need to bring the person in first.
	And the person can't say...
	In this case, if it's offered against a party opponent, it would be like, I told him something and he cried.
	But again, we don't know if he's just placating Amber Heard to be like, look, I told him this, he's super upset, like it's all fine.
	You don't know the purpose of saying that statement.
	It's not, it's not, she's offering it in this interview for the truth of, see, he did this and he cried, he was so upset.
	That text could be anything.
	I mean, but they tried to make Johnny Depp sexting.
	They try to be like, see?
	He's saying I have other uses for your throat.
	I'm like, rotten born, that does not mean what you think it means, buddy.
	I need you to spice things up in your world a little bit because they kept trying to make these texts more than they were.
	So I'm not surprised.
	She's like, oh, we even had this text message that's complete hearsay, that she knows is hearsay.
	Their entire appeal is just going to be a giant mountain of stuff that couldn't get admitted.
	It's going to be done for the public show, and the appeals court is going to go, no, girl, that's not how this works.
	Yeah.
	Sorry.
	No, no, not at all.
	That's beautiful.
	That's why I wanted to continue, because that's important.
	But the other thing that's important for me, this is one of, if you compare the two interviews, this is one of the ones where, to me, Elaine showed her true hands.
	We compare interview to interview, we get a lot of different moments of script that are the same.
	She gives the same answer, the same one with the same words.
	This one had an edit in it, and it's such an important edit.
	On CBS Morning, when she said this script that we just heard, she said the following words.
	You guys can go check it.
	It's in my analysis.
	Or just go watch a CBS Morning interview.
	She says these words.
	She says, we had medical records.
	We had mental health records.
	We had a text from his assistant that said, and then she says the exact same thing that she said there.
	On CBS Morning, she presents medical records, mental health records, with a comma in the middle as two separate things.
	And this is something that we do.
	When we feel and when we know that we don't have enough evidence for something, we take one thing and describe it in multiple ways to stretch it into more.
	So for example, when my mom calls me and says, have you been eating healthy?
	You don't eat healthy.
	And I go, mom, what are you talking about?
	I had a salad the other day.
	I had some tomatoes.
	I had some lettuce.
	There was some carrots.
	It's the same salad.
	You're just stretching it into multiple parts.
	So in this one, she clarified what she meant by that when she goes, We had medical records, which were Amber telling her therapist, dating all the way back to 2012.
	So now we're getting clarity that both those things are the same thing.
	And she's just trying to stretch it.
	But if you're on that CBS morning interview and you're saying, we have medical records, we have mental health records, and what you mean by medical records is mental health records, that's also highly misrepresentative.
	And I backed it up just to play that part again.
	He kicked you.
	He cried.
	He is so sorry.
	That didn't come in.
	Is there any other way records which demonize her?
	And they did.
	They were able to suppress the medical records, which were very, very significant because they showed a pattern going all the way back to 2012 of Amber reporting this to her therapist.
	See, I mean, she got it in there.
	In this one, yes, but on CBS Morning, her other interview that she did, she says it as two different things.
	She says, we had medical records, we had mental health records, like those are two separate things.
	And that is a giant misrepresentation.
	Because what you're doing, because you clarified here what you mean by medical records, and I have two problems with this.
	One, you're separating that one thing into two parts on CBS Morning, and two, you're referring to...
	Not even a therapist's records, mind you, not the notes of a therapist, but what Amber said to a therapist, you're representing that as a medical record.
	That's not what it is.
	So to me, this indicates to me that Elaine knows that she doesn't have legs to stand on, so she has to take this mental health record and stretch it into as much as she can, because there isn't enough there.
	Because the point of therapy is not to determine the truth.
	It's to take in what you're being told and work with the person in front of you.
	That's why you do forensic.
	And Elaine knows this, which is what makes it so disingenuous.
	There's a way to stand up for your client.
	It's the vigorous defense of your client within the bounds of ethics and the bounds of the truth and not lying.
	Let me just...
	Let me show you the way she presented it.
	Please.
	I'm going to show it to you off my phone, but you'll be able to hear it.
	I'll hold it up to my mic, and I'll do it this way.
	Actually, you know what?
	Hold on.
	I have it as a YouTube short.
	Pull it, and I can bring it in if I see it in the backstage.
	Maybe I could just share my screen.
	Try that.
	We'll see if this works.
	Oh, booyah!
	No, hold on.
	Is it this one?
	It has to...
	Oh, yeah.
	There we go.
	I will go here.
	Just make sure that you have nothing bad in your back screen.
	We're doing about it.
	I'm good.
	I closed all my tabs.
	There we go.
	Here it is.
	So if I play this, will you guys hear it or you're still hearing it through my mic?
	I think we'll hear it, but if you play it, don't copy strike my channel.
	The ultimate sound.
	That's why I'm here.
	That's the whole plan.
	Okay, so listen to the way she said it here.
	This is a short, so it's going to be vertical, but you're still going to hear it.
	I'll lean in because I don't know if the audio is coming through the computer.
	I think it'll come through natively.
	I don't know what natively means in that context, but we'll see.
	And there's a tremendous amount of that.
	We had medical records.
	We had mental health records that went back to 2012.
	Let's take a look.
	Did you hear that?
	Yep.
	Totally presented differently.
	Can we close this nightmare tunnel?
	Medical records, mental health records, going back to 2012.
	And even the cadence is like, we had medical records, we had mental health records, we had all these things.
	I wonder if that interview was then second, because she saw that Savannah in the next question still is asking the same thing, but what about the jury rejecting it?
	So I'm wondering if that's why she's doubling down in the next interview.
	I wonder if that one was second, based on that.
	Yeah, it's interesting.
	But one thing is, it's clearly missed.
	Anyone who hears that would think that when she says medical records, it means trauma medical and not therapist medical.
	It means she went to a doctor for her broken nose at the time her nose was broken.
	Right.
	And again, if you believe that you have all these things, why do you need to present that one thing as two separate things?
	Do you understand what I'm saying?
	If we talk about...
	If we talk to Shadow about all the cases she's covered throughout her career, she's not going to run out of things to where she'll have to represent the same one twice.
	She'll say, I have this one and that one and this one.
	She'll run out of things to say.
	But when you're saying two different ways for the same thing and then later clarifying that we have medical records, which are the mental health records, you know you don't have much to stand on because you need to stretch that one bit of thing.
	That's what they did during their closing, too.
	They were stretching things because they didn't.
	So people are like, this is also not so much, this is just semantic analysis.
	Like, this is breaking down what people are saying in a way that they want to say things without lying.
	And how do you do it?
	Like, make it true enough that you can't be accused of lying.
	Okay, let's, I guess we'll go on for a little bit more here.
	We had significant amount of text, including from Mr. Depp's assistance, saying when I, that this jury, for whatever reason, and I hear you on some of the answers that they didn't do, you're so sorry.
	That didn't come in.
	Is there any other way to interpret this verdict, though?
	That this jury, for whatever reason, and I hear you on some of the evidence that they didn't hear.
	I hear you.
	That is patronizing to me, but maybe that makes people feel...
	No, it's because she asked the question twice, and she said, I hear all these other things you want to say, but my question, Elaine, is about the jury verdict.
	Listening to Amber Heard did not believe a single word.
	You know, and that's because she was demonized here.
	A number of things were allowed in this court that should not have been allowed.
	And it caused the jury to be confused.
	Spidey, my spidey senses are tingling.
	You have something to say about demeanor right now.
	About what we just saw?
	Yeah.
	Do you?
	Go back.
	Just rewind one sec.
	Sorry.
	I'm going to be totally honest with you.
	I dozed off for it.
	I got lost in thought for a sec.
	Elaine's spreading.
	The only person I saw demonized in this trial was Johnny Depp, Marilyn Manson, and Paul Bettany, who got called drug buddy Bettany throughout the entire trial.
	They demonized addiction in a way that is off-putting to a lot of people, but I get it.
	Zealous representation of your client.
	All I saw was Depp's team saying, Amber, you said this and you said this.
	You said this and then you said this.
	You said you pledged.
	You said you donated.
	Which is it?
	That's what I saw them doing.
	That's not demonization.
	No.
	I've been looking at Elaine's face.
	I know what I'm thinking in terms of...
	I won't even say it.
	A number of things were allowed in this court that should not have been allowed.
	And it caused the jury to be confused.
	We weren't allowed to tell them about the UK judgment.
	So the damages is completely skewed.
	Shifting.
	This is like the childish diversion from the substance to the damages.
	As far as the substance of what she's saying, but it's her...
	She's shaking her leg, trying to emphasize the truth of what she's saying with over-gesticulation, which is out of baseline from the rest of her interview.
	That's a good point.
	The shoulders are up.
	She's reaching.
	She's looking for something.
	Yeah, totally.
	Dude, you're great at this.
	I can do this.
	I just don't have the words for it.
	You a liar!
	Okay, hold on.
	It stopped at November 2, 2020.
	I like Johnny Depp.
	I didn't even start the trial by liking him.
	Look, if I were to be a man, maybe I want to look like Johnny Depp.
	I could shave this and put on some shades.
	I'm halfway there.
	I think you're there.
	Hold on.
	I think you're 100% there.
	When the judgment came down in the UK.
	Let me ask you about social media in this case.
	Oh, yeah.
	Look at her nodding right here.
	If I'm looking at Elaine, she's like, it's presuasion.
	I'm going to tell you.
	Elaine's like, fuck social media.
	It's TikTok's fault.
	Spidey's going to make a assumption as to why Elaine hates that this was all over social media.
	Because she's at the receiving end of a lot of the jokes because she can't ask a question?
	Because she is publicly binded to an opinion that she knows she can't defend.
	What, if any, opinion can you defend, Elaine?
	Well, so here's what I mean by that.
	There is...
	Enormous amounts of research and evidence that when we go through hardships with a group, it makes our...
	I say fidelity, but Rob from Law& Lumber said fealty is a better word for it, but it strengthens our...
	Whatever you want to call it.
	Fidelity, fealty, loyalty to that group.
	This is why fraternity hazing or sorority hazing is a thing.
	This is why tribes have challenges for you to be able to go.
	When you suffer for a group, with a group, you become, your identity as part of that group is forged.
	You become a lot more loyal to it.
	I think that if this was just a trial that none of us were able to witness, that there wasn't jury by TikTok.
	And at the end it was lost.
	Elaine could come out of it and say, oh well, we lost.
	There aren't all these details.
	People didn't see that she was there fighting for Amber.
	She knows now that she's locked into a position and she can't back out of it.
	Can you imagine what the media headlines would be though if we didn't all see this happen ourselves?
	Yeah, they would be saying what Elaine is saying and no one would have any evidence to the contrary.
	In real time.
	Sorry, Spidey.
	It's just, I know Elaine We fought hard to keep cameras out of the courtroom, and it's the same reason Jussie Smollett fought to keep cameras out of the courtroom.
	And the only peek we got into Jussie Smollett's courtroom was the judge's statements at the end of that trial and the judge lighting in to Jussie Smollett about this and this and that.
	We didn't need to rely on the judge's sentencing.
	In this case, there's not going to be a sentencing because it's not criminal, but we got to see it ourselves.
	And Elaine is just, again, Again, it's just disingenuous, and there's a way to do this better.
	But Elaine, I don't know.
	Did Elaine just drink the Kool-Aid?
	Does she believe Amber Heard?
	I may be projecting my own honesty onto others.
	I don't think Elaine actually believes what she's saying, which is in her over-protesting to the outcome.
	But she's defending it, and she's going to sell it to herself as, this is what it means to be a good lawyer.
	It means...
	Promoting positions that defend your client even if I don't necessarily believe them myself.
	But I think also Elaine is embarrassed because some of this trial was embarrassing not only for Amber but for Elaine herself based on strategy adopted, dumb questions asked, and smart answers received.
	She's going on these morning shows and she is like standing up for Amber.
	There's no...
	Sort of her owning up to any of the fallbacks.
	She was flat out asked on CBS, like, what were some of your shortcomings?
	She is really going to bat for Amber.
	And I think a lot of that has to do with, somebody said trauma bonding earlier.
	I think it has a lot to do with that, is that she knows that millions of people have seen her on that side and she's committed.
	She's locked in.
	It's too late for her to back out.
	And I think a big part of the reason that she despises this social media and she seems contentious towards it is because...
	It really pushed her into Amber's corner, and it's way too late for her, professionally or unprofessionally, just socially, to back out of that corner.
	She is locked in.
	But they should have known.
	She can't admit to what...
	What did you do wrong?
	What was your shortcomings?
	She can't say that because I think if there's ever a client that's going to turn around and sue her own attorneys, it's Amber Heard.
	So she can't answer that at all.
	She could have said, you know what?
	I wish we had had a broader jury pool with more women on it.
	That's just the luck of the draw.
	I wish that, you know, this case hadn't been on television because I think it was a lot of stress on Amber when she was testifying and maybe it was difficult.
	What we saw in the courtroom is different than what people saw at home on social media, and she was subject to such harassment, people making fun of her testimony, and that's so hurtful.
	There are answers she could have given, but she couldn't ever really say her shortcomings because she will maybe get sued.
	Is it cynical of me to think that maybe part of Elaine going out there and stumping for her client some more is that she's hoping her client won't just file bankruptcy and not pay her legal fees?
	You know what?
	It's a very, very good theory.
	I think she is scared of Amber.
	There were probably some big arguments between them, and I don't know what the result of it was, but somehow Elaine is going on these interviews, and she really seems to be batting for Amber.
	I think she's batting for Amber because she's batting for her own hurt in this, her own shame.
	By the way, when I do this, just tell me, can you hear the audio when I press play on another?
	Do you hear any audio now?
	No.
	If it's in another tab that's not being shared, you shouldn't be able to hear it.
	Okay, so apparently Timcast got swatted again.
	That sucks.
	In real time.
	And I'm a few minutes back, but I'm not going to watch it.
	I'm not going to share it either.
	But apparently Timcast got swatted.
	In real time.
	It's so dangerous.
	Here's the thing that I've hated about this trial, because Amber Heard, whatever you think of her performance in court and her case and her character, doesn't deserve the harassment she gets online.
	Neither do the people supporting her.
	Neither do the people who support Johnny Depp.
	Neither does the court reporter.
	Neither does anyone else or the attorneys or the experts.
	There's just this dark side to the internet of taking it too far, and I think that's always existed.
	But it's just really, really hard.
	It's really hard to watch, and people getting swatted is so, so dangerous.
	I say especially in the States, it's a little more egregious than in Canada.
	I'm looking at it.
	It's an empty studio now in real time.
	But no, people have the tendency of just thinking.
	You're saying things on the internet.
	It's just words.
	But there's real people.
	This is the thing.
	I got criticized for even being too forgiving on Jussie Smollett.
	If he just apologized at a certain point, could have been forgiven.
	I still feel bad for Amber Heard, even if she does not feel bad for herself.
	But that does not mean that people don't need to experience it.
	No, I absolutely feel bad for her.
	She couldn't get out of her own way and make this all stop.
	And that is...
	I just feel...
	Badly for her.
	I do feel bad that her testimony was mocked rather than questioned.
	But that's also, she stood up in trial and said, don't I have the right to free speech?
	And you know what?
	So does TikTok.
	And sometimes free speech is real ugly.
	People don't have the right to make threats, but people do have the right to say things that are distasteful.
	And that is part, that's the other side of the coin.
	So Amber Heard wants her own free speech, but she definitely doesn't want people making fun of her.
	Spidey, who's Doug Henning?
	He is pretty much, first of all, he's a Canadian magician, illusionist, and really skilled at sleight of hand, who pretty much made magic cool.
	He was the Copperfield before Copperfield.
	He had a show on TV, a weekly show, and he was the one who made magic not cheesy, where he presented it in a fun, sort of engaging way.
	But he was done before I even got into magic.
	So I've seen his stuff.
	He's incredible.
	Light years ahead of his time.
	He was doing really great stuff.
	You know, back in the day when most of Magic was pretty lame.
	And he pretty much made Magic cool again.
	Spidey, can I ask you a completely off-topic question?
	Okay.
	Have you ever read Neil Strauss' book, The Game?
	I have.
	I used to be...
	I used to work with a lot of those guys because I started years ago by teaching sort of...
	I never liked the word pickup.
	I don't like pickup at all.
	But sort of like interactions because...
	You know, magic really helps you break the ice.
	So I used to teach a lot of how to be a lot more apt socially and stuff.
	But then I really got turned off by that industry for a lot of reasons.
	Maybe all the reasons in that book.
	It's fascinating.
	Sorry, I just had to ask.
	Is the game the one that was made into the movie with Michael?
	Very loosely related, but not really.
	The game is basically how Neil Strauss...
	Entered the community of the pickup artists and learned from a guy called Mystery who, Emily, I guess that's where you were going with that because Mystery does a lot of magic.
	He did a lot of magic in bars and he even taught a little bit of magic for like breaking the ice and things like that.
	And Mystery is great.
	He understands, you know, the sort of social element of flirt really, really well or did.
	It's a fascinating industry.
	There's a lot of really great people in there who get the psychology of...
	Male-female dynamics.
	But there's so much toxicity in that industry.
	You wouldn't believe that.
	I just had to get the hell out.
	Viva, this book you would be fascinated by.
	Neil Strauss is an author.
	He goes undercover and kind of infiltrates this subculture and gets sucked.
	All the way into it.
	And it's his book about his experience.
	He talks about Courtney Love giving him acupuncture and interviewing Britney Spears.
	And he was a longtime reporter for Rolling Stone.
	I've seen him speak a couple times.
	I've met him a couple times.
	Fascinating dude.
	Kind of on the stoic line of like modern...
	If I was looking at like modern day kind of...
	Thought leaders.
	He's definitely in that stoic realm.
	And this is a very raw and unfiltered look at a really interesting time in his life.
	If it's on Audible, I can do it.
	I have six credits that I can use.
	I just cannot physically read books with my own.
	I don't either.
	I don't either.
	I want them read to me.
	I had to start my own Audible account because some of the books I like are a little too spicy for my children.
	So I had to start a separate Audible account for my books.
	You know, women of a certain age.
	So I would listen to it in a heartbeat.
	The game is great.
	I think Neil Strauss is fascinating.
	Yeah, it's a fascinating journey.
	And he talks about some really interesting guys.
	And some of the guys he talks about I'm really good friends with.
	He talks about a guy called Zan Perrion in there who was a really good friend of mine.
	Really great guy.
	But it's not those people.
	It's just what that industry kind of became was a little cringe for me.
	That's fair.
	I've shut down that other screen.
	We've seen enough of Elaine.
	We need to go to somebody else who is worthy, and I'm going to put the H in it, worthy of analysis.
	We're going to start with Spidey, and then Emily, we're going to talk about this afterwards.
	Their expert, this guy.
	And for all you know, with respect to the exam that you're relying on, you've scored 27 out of 4. And that would be telling, though, cognitively, if you scored 27 out of 30 and you missed 3 points on memory.
	That would be very telling.
	You don't know if Mr. Depp.
	Had been up all night the night before.
	Again, you wouldn't expect to not recall any word to three minutes unless there's a cognitive issue.
	You don't know if Mr. Depp was high.
	And again, oh, now that's, again, now that could affect memory, but I'm not refuting that.
	I'm not refuting that at all.
	He could have been high, he could have been drunk, he could have been using cocaine, and that would absolutely affect his memory.
	That's what I said.
	Yes.
	Spidey.
	First thing's first here.
	Hold on, where did I just go?
	Where's my screen?
	I've lost my screen.
	Hold on, hold on.
	We see you.
	I'm coming back.
	Am I not wrong in my overall assessment that psychiatrists are crazy?
	I can't think of a nice way to put it.
	They are type A personalities if there's ever been.
	What do you make?
	If you look at that body language, body movement, gesticulations, hemming and hawing, what do you make of that guy?
	Listen, it's a weird baseline.
	And this is the reason I didn't want to tackle this guy because I thought about filming it and there was no way that I could do this without it turning into me mocking someone.
	And I never want my analysis to be that.
	I can make a joke every now and then about something somebody said or something that somebody could have had a different choice of words.
	But you look at this guy, and I can't, like, the main reason I didn't want to do analysis is because, as I said earlier, there's the books I've read and the information I've seen and the studies that I've learned and the terms that I know.
	And on top of that, there's a lot of experience.
	And when I look at this guy, my experience is screaming cringe.
	And I can't tell you why scientifically.
	And I think we're all feeling it.
	His baseline is so bizarre.
	I've rarely seen anyone with that much face touching, lip licking, these compressions that we're getting.
	It's too much.
	And these are all things that are usually associated with...
	So the way we detect deception, and there's so much misconception about this.
	Nobody can detect deception.
	Nobody on this planet can tell you...
	When someone is lying.
	For a fact.
	It's impossible.
	It can't be done.
	But there are clusters of behavior that raise the probability of deception and allow us to know we need to ask a few more questions here.
	That's it.
	That's all we see.
	It's like Shadow was saying earlier.
	With experience, you see what it is where you need to poke a little more.
	It's exactly that interrogation.
	But even the top interrogators in the world, there isn't a single thing they'll ever see that'll make you go, that person's lying.
	There are things I could see on someone's face that'll make me go, that person is...
	I'm 99% sure.
	Angry, sad, happy, disgust, contempt.
	All these things.
	Lies doesn't exist.
	But we look for these things to increase the probability.
	Face touching is one of them.
	Lip licking is another.
	When we're stressed, mouth dries up.
	This corrects that.
	Lip compression is another one.
	We're holding back opinions.
	This guy's doing all these things all the time.
	So how am I supposed to form a cluster when his baseline is...
	Really heavy in a lot of these things.
	So I have to choose to believe one of two things.
	One, he's really stressed throughout this entire thing, or simply that he has a really, really strange baseline.
	And I can look at moments where it gets even stranger, like when he's asked about Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, where, yeah, those things just fire off to the roof.
	And then he asks if he has to answer that question.
	So there's a lot of stress there.
	There's something going on there, and that's very important to me.
	But besides that, when you look at the rest of his answers, how do you distinguish a lot of weird gestures from a hell of a lot of weird gestures?
	You know what I mean?
	This is why I'm always reluctant also.
	Sometimes you can't help some childish reflexes, but he might be on some form of medication that causes that type of...
	Body reaction.
	It's on the substance of his answers.
	Where, you know, setting aside all, he could have been this straight face as Johnny Depp.
	You don't know if he was high.
	Nope.
	You don't know this.
	Nope.
	But it's not normal to not remember answers after three minutes.
	Except you don't know.
	He looked at the judge and he was like, I was just getting into this.
	Like, I'm just, I'm getting, I'm just, I'm sorry.
	And he's like, sir, just answer the question.
	He's like, I'm just getting into it.
	Have you never been an expert witness before?
	I just don't have a lot of empathy.
	After we've heard that he called Johnny Depp an idiot, I know they didn't bring up Johnny Depp's ADHD, so I took it a little bit personally as someone with ADHD.
	I know it didn't come up in this trial.
	Johnny Depp didn't put it at issue.
	But a lot of the things that he's getting to could have also been explained by ADHD, and it never comes up.
	The way this man testified, I was also trying not to make fun.
	I generally don't make fun.
	Once he called Johnny Depp an idiot, I'm like, fine, Dr. Doofenshmirtz, look for your platypus.
	I don't want to hear it anymore.
	I'm fucking done.
	Oh, Perry!
	I just can't.
	I do have to say something here.
	When I sense arrogance or confidence in someone, typically one of the things that I like to do...
	In cold reading, like when I'm reading people, and this kind of allows me to get a sort of good read on someone, is to figure out what the source of that confidence or arrogance is.
	Because when you identify someone's source of arrogance, you also identify their weaknesses and how to poke them in a way that's going to put them on tilt.
	So there's a couple of places where people get confidence, arrogance, or narcissism from.
	Narcissism is an extreme form of confidence.
	Well, not confidence, but of arrogance.
	So let's look at what they are.
	So some people are...
	Very confident and arrogant due to physicality.
	So this is the guy who goes to the gym and he works out all the time and he knows he looks good.
	The ones who gain confidence from looks.
	Then we have the ones who gain it from material gain, whether it's things that they bought or things that they own or things that they have.
	So if you look at, for example, a Kevin O 'Leary type, you're both familiar with Kevin O 'Leary?
	Yep.
	He was on Shark Tank.
	On Shark Tank.
	Yeah, he's Canadian.
	You know, very smart guy, really smart investor.
	But you can see that when he's talking about money, when he's talking about his investments and things, he gains confidence.
	You can see that it's a really good example of someone that when he's talking about that specific topic, the body language gets really confident because he knows his stuff in that field.
	So he gets it from there.
	Anyways, there's different sources of confidence.
	Some people get it from, I call this spiritual confidence, people who feel like they just get life more than other people.
	This guy, Spiegel, is intellectual confidence.
	He knows that he's a smart guy.
	And I might get resistance on this and be like, he's an idiot.
	He's not an idiot.
	He's a smart guy.
	He's not very good at communicating that, but he has book understanding of things.
	He is nonsense at communicating it.
	He has almost zero social know-how.
	And that usually goes hand in hand with someone who is that highly, highly, highly intellectual.
	Because he doesn't pay attention to these things.
	Social norms.
	The way he appears.
	He's not aware of how he comes off.
	Even you could see it in his demeanor.
	He didn't take too much time to fix the hair.
	I'm not saying he has bad hair.
	I'm just saying it's all up and he's a mad scientist doc from Back to the Future vibe.
	The suit doesn't quite fit right.
	And I'm not saying this to mock or tease his look.
	I'm just saying it's a sign to me that he doesn't pay attention really to the way he comes off.
	Because he's always relied on the fact that he's usually the most informed person in the room.
	The problem is on this stand, it's not working.
	That usual condescension of intellectual arrogance that he usually has, that I bet you has served him well throughout the years because in most conversations, nobody has the knowledge and education to confront what he's saying.
	So he's used to not being questioned.
	It's not working on the stand.
	That's a great point because he did say, sorry, Viva, he did say, I don't understand why we're debating psychiatry right now.
	I just told you what it is.
	And we did see moments like that.
	It's spot on, actually.
	It's just a question of being smart, thinking you're smart, and then taking offense to being questioned because you are the law, you are the psychiatry.
	I'm sorry.
	It's like if right now I started lecturing Either one of you on law, you know, there's a part of you that would go, rightfully so, like, Spidey, shut up.
	This ain't your thing.
	And you would be right to do that.
	And I get aggravated when I see that happen.
	I would only do that if you tried to lecture me on Louis Vuitton or Dave Matthews.
	On law, I'm always open to not knowing what I'm talking about.
	You want to go to Louis Vuitton with me?
	You want to do this, Vince?
	You want to do this, Vince?
	What the heck did I get involved in here?
	Can I show Emily the shoes I just bought?
	Yes!
	Hold on.
	Hold on.
	He's going to get some shoes.
	I'm sorry.
	While you do that, I'm going to bring up my...
	I think I see a super chat here.
	I'm sorry.
	No, no.
	First of all...
	The spoiler alert, you guys are in the same room.
	You're just in different corners of the room.
	You're going to start rumors on the internet?
	Well, I'm going to wait until I see Spidey's Louis Vuitton shoes.
	Okay, before he gets back here, let's just see this here quickly.
	We've got this one.
	Hey, Viva, nothing to do with JD and Amber Heard, but what information on the Uvati is out?
	Could a lawsuit against the UPD pose be brought up?
	So I'm going to look this up, and Barnes and I are going to talk about it, but tonight will not be the night.
	Viva asked Spidey who his favorite magician is and why it is Chris Ramsey.
	Okay, I think we got to one of those.
	Hey, Viva, what would you think about a settlement in the U.S. case stating that Amber pays the son for the U.K. verdict?
	Not so silent.
	Okay, let's see.
	Spidey, those are glorious.
	They're so good.
	They're so good.
	I can tell you one thing, by the way.
	Spidey, I'm going to DM you a picture of my new midnight purse.
	Can you hold those up for one second, Spidey?
	How tall are you?
	Are you 5 '8"?
	No, 6 '4".
	Oh.
	How did everyone get so tall in this?
	6 '4".
	So those are size 11?
	11 1⁄2.
	Okay, I'm good.
	They're Italian size.
	The Louisa are Italian size.
	Yeah, they're gorgeous.
	They are really, really exquisite, Spidey.
	I would ask the question privately, do I ask it publicly?
	No.
	Everyone can find out.
	Worth it.
	Worth it is what they cost.
	That's what they call worth it.
	By the way, worth it.
	Hold on.
	Spidey, next time, if you're ever through Nashville.
	You're going to come have a private shopping experience with me and my boy Jordan over at Vuitton here.
	We have an amazing Vuitton in Nashville.
	I'm going to show you something that's going to one-up your Louis Vuitton.
	Or Vegas.
	These are...
	You've got your face on them!
	Yeah, Murph's kicks.
	Murph's underscore kicks.
	Those technically look like they might be red bottoms because there's red at the bottom.
	I like it.
	Dude, they're red bottoms.
	What did you just say, Viva?
	What's red bottom?
	Is it a show?
	Emily, we can't be here anymore.
	We're leaving.
	We're going somewhere fancy.
	We just can't be here anymore.
	We can't be here.
	You don't listen to enough Cardi B. Who's Cardi B?
	Sorry, I'm not that dumb.
	We can't be here.
	Those are blood shoes.
	You have just lost social media points, people.
	Both of you.
	Shadow and spine.
	Look, I can't wear the red bottoms because I have giant man-sized feet, so I cannot wear red bottoms, but I do love the men's sneakers from Futon.
	After my Spinal Fusion, I wear all sneakers, mostly Adidas.
	I love them, but no, the red bottoms are very...
	Very fancy.
	Louboutins and the men's red bottoms have red on the sole and the women's very, very large heels have red on the sole.
	They actually trademarked it.
	I think there's a patent on the color of red.
	Thank you, chat, for getting my Cardi B reference.
	I see you.
	But they're stilettos.
	No, they make men's shoes as well.
	No, guy.
	It's my brand.
	No, I don't wear those.
	Yes, there's a specific color.
	I believe they have the color patented and trademarked.
	They've got the red bottom.
	There's a whole lot of legal that goes into these shoes.
	I have most of those.
	No, I don't have that one.
	That one looks like a bowling shoe, Spidey.
	Of course you don't.
	I have my own pair of bowling shoes.
	I don't have one.
	I don't want those.
	$197?
	No, those aren't actual Louboutins if they're $197.
	Those aren't Louboutins.
	The one on the far left.
	No, go to the ad that says Christian Louboutin and go look at those.
	Those are ads.
	Those are not actual Louboutins.
	Those are not the right one.
	Hit the top ad.
	Christian Louboutin.
	I'm going to try to take over mouse control of your computer.
	Just the Google link.
	The number one link right there.
	Ad.
	The first one.
	What are you doing?
	I have no idea.
	Under your search, just look at the top where it says Christian de Boutin.
	The very first one, right at the top left.
	Why isn't he moving?
	I don't know.
	Viva, has your internet broken?
	I want another screen.
	There we go.
	Those are my babies.
	So I have...
	I have the third from top.
	The glittery ones are good.
	I have the furthest right.
	I love the spiky black.
	I have those.
	I'm sorry.
	There's an extra number in here.
	You should stop there and we'd be fine.
	Viva's considering switching professions to become a mentalist now.
	Oh, mentalism, huh?
	People do not spend $3,000 on a pair of shoes.
	Yes, they do.
	A little bit.
	Only shoes that are worth it, though.
	I'm going to go close that window.
	Your wife's going to be like, what are you looking at?
	It's not possible.
	I say this without judgment.
	It's not possible.
	It's not possible.
	We won't talk about what I spend on purses.
	She's buying Louis Vuitton purses.
	Well, mostly limited edition now because we have a personal shopper.
	Yeah, so that was a little...
	Remember how I said people get their confidence from certain sources?
	Well, for Shadow, it's from purses.
	We love our purses over here.
	I love them so much.
	And look, simple pleasures, man.
	Okay.
	Mind is thoroughly blown.
	And to each their own.
	Oh my god, it's 8.30.
	I've got to go.
	I'm so sorry.
	I didn't mean to jump into your chat.
	I appreciate you both.
	Are you kidding?
	Anytime.
	This was amazing.
	This was fortuitous.
	It was beautiful.
	Emily, thank you for coming in.
	And Emily, first of all, I want you to know this whole Johnny Depp trial created an interesting dynamic for a mentally neurotic individual like myself where you don't want to feel like you're trying to Push your way into someone else's thing.
	You don't want to look like you're trying to cannibalize someone else's thing.
	And so this is the dynamic I've been walking for the last six weeks.
	I want to cover it a bit.
	I don't want to look like I'm trying to leech off of other people or get in on their thing.
	I hope no one has had any ill thoughts.
	No, it's law.
	It's pop culture.
	It's the internet.
	People, look, I know that there are people in the chat who want to hear your take on it, Spidey's take on it, my take on it, Rakata's take on it.
	That's the beauty of lawyers.
	We all have sometimes the same and sometimes a different take, but that's the thing about...
	All of our audiences is they want to hear your perspective on it.
	So you should never not cover something.
	Your audience wants to hear what you think, what you have to say, and your perspective.
	We're all different.
	There's not competition in this space.
	There's collaboration and content.
	And I think it's an amazing thing among the lawyers.
	Bring in the behavior panel, guys.
	I mean, it's beautiful.
	So, Emily.
	Thank you.
	Sorry to have you bounce.
	Go, please.
	Enjoy the night and we'll talk soon.
	Thank you for inviting me.
	Thank you for having me chat.
	Thank you for letting me steal Spidey's attention away to Vuitton.
	My mind is blown, but Emily, we'll talk later.
	We will.
	We will talk soon.
	Thank you both.
	There was a comment in French.
	There was a French super thing.
	Hold on, let's see this here.
	Tim Pool got swatted.
	That was from Tarquin Meyer.
	Oh, we got Voyant Viva.
	Put it, put it, put it.
	I'm going to read it.
	Hold on a second.
	Let me find this.
	$3,000 on shoes.
	Come on.
	Voyant Viva.
	Voyant Viva.
	Allume.
	Hey, t 'es pire que ma grand-mère.
	Grand-mère, by the way, misspelled because that is grand, like grand-papa.
	That's grande for mère.
	Anyway, but we get it.
	And the mère should be a chapeau, not an accent grave.
	No, it's grave.
	I don't know.
	It's grave.
	Come on.
	So, voyant is pure Quebecois.
	You're not going to understand that in French.
	Well, te bain push is even more Quebecois.
	You can't explain te bain push to someone who doesn't speak Quebecois French.
	Because bain, first of all, isn't a word.
	It's like, it just emphasizes other words.
	Like, you're really.
	It's like the equivalent of you're really.
	And push is like, you're really lame.
	No, no.
	Because no one says benouis.
	In France, no idea but benouis.
	And I still say benouis.
	E-E-I-N.
	Holy $3,000 for shoes?
	What if you do?
	You step in shit.
	You're going to freak out.
	But here's the thing.
	You have to understand something about I get on stage for a living in front of people and they're at the eye level of my shoes.
	You know what I mean?
	For me, it's an investment.
	Spidey, I say it without judgment.
	The things that I will happily invest money in, GoPro after GoPro every year.
	I just justify my own.
	Technology, to me, is a worthwhile investment.
	Fashion is not.
	Except for my own merch.
	And to each their own.
	It's good for the economy to pull a margin.
	It's because of the fact that I've got to get on stage.
	I was so happy with these.
	It's Murphy's Kicks.
	Hold on a second.
	I'm going to get the right Instagram.
	It's Murph's underscore kicks.
	Last I recall.
	A fan art and I love them.
	Murph's underscore kicks on Instagram.
	Here we go.
	Check that out.
	That was the shoe.
	They look great.
	Honestly, they look terrific.
	But I wore them and they got dirty.
	Now I got stuff on them.
	Oh no, but they look amazing.
	Honestly, I think that is a great looking shoe.
	So I'm way on board.
	I want to pair with your logo on it.
	Murphs, if you're watching, I guarantee you he's watching.
	Murphs.
	Spidey, here's a question.
	You do break down individual events.
	What do you do to continue to hone your skills so that, I presume...
	Like every other practice, if you're not getting better, you're getting worse.
	What do you continue to do to make sure that you're still and always getting better?
	So that's, you know, the reason you asked earlier is a big part of that.
	You were like, do you still perform?
	You know, like YouTube's going, well, do I still perform?
	I do, and I never...
	He's right.
	We don't pronounce...
	So we even say my grammar, like just one word, like grammar.
	Anyways, sorry, sidetracked.
	So performance will always be a part of what I do because, you know, earlier, I don't know if it was you or Shadow who said it, that like that, whatever, you said it, that whatever has that human element makes us good with people and reading people.
	I think I owe a lot of what I can do and a lot of the things I see to the fact that I'm out there on stage weekly.
	With hundreds of people in front of me, bringing them up on stage, communicating with them, literally reading them.
	And it's funny when I say this to my interrogator friends or my behavior analysis friends, I have to present the profile I get.
	They don't.
	They keep it for themselves and they use it to sort of know where to ask questions.
	When I'm on stage and I read someone, I have to say what I'm seeing and the person has to go, oh my God, you're so right.
	How can you know these things?
	I really get to test my abilities and really own them.
	And when I fail, my trick fails.
	My show fails.
	So I don't think people realize, just because it's like I'm not in an interrogation room, I'm on a stage entertaining people, you might look at that and go, it's not as serious.
	I get it.
	But I have to present that profile to applause.
	So it's a great opportunity for me to work, consistently work.
	On my people reading skills.
	So that's how I do it.
	I will continue, I think, forever.
	Even if YouTube becomes a really big thing for me, I can't stop performing because that's where I keep working on my ability to read people.
	I totally appreciate what you're saying, which is one of the big concerns is when you stop practicing law, you stop acquiring that new experience, you have your memory bank of stories to tell of your life experiences.
	But when you stop having those experiences, In a way, you're going to run out of stories to tell.
	You're going to run out of anecdotes.
	And you have to make new memories.
	You have to make new experience in order to keep evolving.
	I think we're fortunate in that we can continue to do that doing what we're doing.
	But that's a concern.
	If you sit in one place, you're going to run out of memories and experience in no time at all.
	Whereas life and evolution is about continuing to get new experiences, to learn from them, to apply them to future events.
	I'm going to pin all of your stuff in the pinned comment.
	But what's your schedule?
	Do you have any bookings planned for the near future?
	So there's nothing public in the books right now, mainly because I've scheduled a big break for myself as of June 22nd, so in two weeks, for a while, for reasons I don't care to get into right now.
	But I took a couple of months off just for myself.
	I may not also post on YouTube for maybe a month or so.
	I'm going to have to see how that goes.
	But public touring right now, there's nothing in the books.
	I have a bunch of private events here locally before my blackout dates.
	But usually whatever public shows I have is announced either on my Instagram, which is Spidey Hypnosis, or...
	Yeah, that's pretty much where we announce public shows.
	You're not on Twitter.
	I was looking for you and I couldn't find anything.
	No, I have an account, Spidey Hypnosis, there, but it's excessively inactive.
	I think I've posted on there less than 10 times.
	It's there, but it's not active at all.
	I'm most active on YouTube at the Behavioral Arts.
	That's where most of my activity is now.
	And Instagram, Spidey Hypnosis is very active as well.
	Well, I'll tell you one thing.
	I'm a good judge of character.
	And Spidey, you're a sincerely good person.
	I can tell it.
	And modest.
	Sincere and a good person.
	You have to say that because I'm a guest on your show.
	No, no.
	I'll flip it one way.
	I wouldn't have invited you on if I didn't already think it based on my reading of your videos.
	But in-person live, it's tough.
	And for two and a half, two and three quarter hours, it's tough.
	It's impossible to hide demeanor for that long.
	You're good.
	And you're insightful.
	And I love it.
	Imagine what you would feel if I thought we were done, but we weren't.
	And I was just back here like, what the?
	Well, first of all, having seen the Zoom bombs for the last three years, I walk around life thinking I'm being recorded at all times.
	And which is a very stressful thing because in my own mind, there's a lot of wheels spinning that don't materialize in my outward demeanor.
	So I feel irritable.
	I feel nervous.
	And I presume that everybody knows how nervous I feel.
	But yeah, you don't have those outbursts when you just presume.
	You're always being recorded.
	Everyone's always watching you.
	And don't take down your pants until you know the plugs are out.
	That's a joke.
	That was a Tubin joke.
	Spidey.
	Amazing stuff.
	Well, what's next on your publication?
	So you have something lined up for Ben Shue's interview?
	Yeah, so I vowed last week to my fans, not my fans.
	Sorry, I hate saying fans.
	It's a word I got to get rid of for my vocabulary.
	I don't like using it.
	I vowed last week to my community, to my subscribers, that I was done with the case.
	Johnny Depp, Amber Hood, it's not happening anymore.
	But then Ben Chu and Camille Vasquez went and did the morning shows, the same ones Elaine did.
	And I only feel it's fair if I look at both.
	You know, like we did Elaine, now we got to do them.
	So I feel like I'm going to do that.
	I'm also going to retract my promise that we're done with this case because as I learned...
	I don't know what's going to happen.
	I know that I'm done with it.
	So I'm going to do a video where I'm going to look at Ben Chu.
	I'm going to look at Camille Vasquez.
	I'm also going to do some updates on last week's video because I said a couple of things that I need to clarify.
	So I'm going to have at least one more about this trial.
	After that, I don't know what's happening, but there will always be videos on the channel related to psychology in the real world.
	Analysis, persuasion, body language, behavior, lie detection, all that stuff.
	I'm just going to keep going with whatever's relevant.
	Well, and I should say everyone very much liked the show, as did I. I appreciate that you want to remain, presumably want to remain apolitical.
	So, you know, running in and analyzing these Jan 6 committees might not be in your wheelhouse.
	But there will always be something amazing.
	I'm going to go now and watch the slap video because I didn't watch it.
	Your bottom line, Will Smith?
	Chris Rock, it was a bonafide legit slap and Chris Rock was flamboozled?
	I think it was a legit slap.
	I don't think it was with the intention to dislocate the guy's jaw.
	I think Will Smith slaps...
	As disciplined.
	We've seen footage of him on another interview once where an interviewer pissed him off a little and he just kind of goes, what's wrong with you?
	With a bit of a slap.
	So I don't think it was this big, aggressive, like, violent thing.
	I think even as he was walking up, he wasn't sure what was going to happen.
	He was just feeling all these emotions.
	But I do believe it was an unscripted event that happened.
	And he returned to see we saw real anger there.
	There's a ton of stuff I talk about.
	But also the behavior panel.
	I mean, these are four guys who...
	Really, really know this stuff.
	Top of the game.
	And they gave some really good...
	One of the things I loved was Mark Bowden said, because he's done this.
	He's been a director.
	He's directed big events.
	And he said, most of the time what you see is eye contact as the people prepare for that slap.
	As Will Smith was walking up, he wasn't looking at Chris.
	He was looking down.
	I don't think even he knew what was going to happen when he got up there.
	I think Chris Rock was trying to figure it out.
	That's why he leaned forward.
	It's rare that we lean forward if there's an altercation coming.
	So he leaned forward.
	He was trying to figure out what's going on.
	That slap came.
	We saw real surprising Chris Rock.
	We saw real adjustment, real conflict.
	What do I do now?
	Even after the slap, at moments like when we saw that Chris Rock wasn't really aware that he's still trying to figure out what's going on.
	He has this awkwardness to him.
	And ultimately, I think the biggest argument for why I think this was real is if you look at the repercussions on Will Smith's career.
	Why in a million years would he have argued a woman like this?
	And the tarnishing of everybody, from the Oscars to Jada Pinkett.
	Even in a way...
	Chris Rock, I think, comes out looking good, but it's not what he wanted to be known for.
	He's the only person who gained from this.
	Chris Rock, because of his composure, because of the way he handled it.
	And you even see there's certain things like after the slap, you see Chris Rock's left hand comes up like this as the right hand hooks around and he restrains himself.
	There was this moment of like, what am I going to do here?
	And Will Smith kept his eyes on Chris Rock after the slap to be like, is he going to retaliate?
	Is he going to retaliate?
	No, he's not.
	And he walks away.
	If this was scripted, there would be a lot more of that.
	Slap and walk away without the fear of conflict.
	This had a moment of each of them sizing the opponent, which wouldn't happen if either of them knew this was happening.
	Again, he's an actor.
	He won an Oscar that night.
	I think he might have just lost Spidey.
	Oh, no.
	There you are.
	Okay.
	It was definitely your internet.
	Sorry, man.
	I was saying, you know, he's an actor who won an Oscar that night, but there's certain subtleties that go beyond acting like that sort of fear of retaliation where you gauge someone.
	That's not something that an actor would necessarily do unless he really stepped into the role.
	So it is possible.
	He could have done that.
	It compromises everybody's brand.
	It's not even something that the Oscars or Will Smith would agree to do because it makes Will Smith look like an idiot, like bottom line.
	All right, man.
	Spidey, that was amazing.
	You stick around.
	We'll talk for a few minutes afterwards, say our proper goodbyes.
	I hate headphones.
	I feel like I hear my...
	I don't know if I'm speaking crisply and cleanly with the headphones.
	I hope I am.
	I hate headphones.
	But there was too much audio tonight to...
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	My ears are going to breathe.
	Spidey, stick around.
	We're going to say our proper goodbyes.
	Everyone in the chat, apparently there's 41,000 people.
	Watching Timcast's empty studio.
	What is that?
	What happened?
	I don't understand what happened.
	Well, hold on.
	You know what I'm going to do before we leave?
	I'm going to do this real quick-like, because now that I can...
	Okay.
	Share.
	Share.
	Chrome tab.
	Johnny Depp.
	Amber Heard.
	Timcast.
	IRL.
	Here.
	Okay.
	We can see this now, I think.
	What is this?
	What's happening?
	So just check out what happened.
	I'm well behind because I want to play it from this point when we stopped.
	Apparently he got...
	Either swatted or had...
	What does swatted mean?
	We're going to grab some and drink.
	We're being told we need to evacuate the building.
	Keep watching.
	Keep the stream up.
	Can you do a wide shot?
	Maybe you'll get to watch something happen.
	I don't know.
	We have to get out of the building.
	That's Lydia.
	She looks stressed.
	A little nervous.
	Fumbling on the buttons that she's typically familiar with.
	Zooming out Yep, that's What's going on here?
	So apparently there was another emergency called and how do I go back?
	Oh, I go to live.
	Someone said there's a trick to go to live.
	This?
	There is there are 40,000 people watching an empty studio at Timcast because apparently they were either swatted or had the police called and they were told to evacuate.
	What does swatted mean?
	When they call the police and say there's an emergency at a house or a unit and then the police show up and either come in with the SWAT team tactical gear or just police come in and say evacuate.
	And I'm going to pull...
	Oh no!
	No, no, hold on.
	That's not what I wanted to pull.
	I want to pull this because I don't want to get...
	What the fudge?
	There we go.
	So being SWATed is you call the cops and say there's an emergency at a given address.
	And in the States, sometimes the cops come in hard.
	And sometimes they come in so hard that they actually end up shooting the wrong people.
	And Tim has been having problems.
	Stay away from politics, Spidey, but do the wrong body analysis and you might piss somebody off.
	What does that have to do with...
	Are we thinking these are extreme viewers who are threatening his life?
	No.
	People do it as a hoax or as a prank, thinking it's just going to...
	Or bad actors to disrupt...
	I don't know who his guest was tonight.
	People in the chat will know who his guest was.
	I wasn't watching.
	But it's like it happened to him the night of Marjorie Taylor Greene or shortly thereafter.
	And it's happened like three to six times now in recent memory.
	So, squatting is based on a criminal accusation.
	Yeah, it's basically calling the cops to someone else's house for an emergency.
	Got it.
	So, anyhow, that's it.
	Spidey, stick around.
	You and I will talk for a few minutes.
	This was phenomenal.
	Let's do it again.
	Anytime you're game.
	And I'm coming to see you live, no question.
	Chat.
	Oh, hold on.
	Let's just see if I can do this real quickly.
	Hey, Viva, what do you think about the settlement in the US case stating that Amber pays the sun?
	Yeah, I got that one.
	Non sequitur, a statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.
	LOL, that was jarring.
	Elaine, no question.
	As a German, please comment on the Chancellor Merkel triangle.
	There are election posters of her doing that.
	Show off the triangle.
	I don't know what that is, but I'm going to potentially look into that.
	Transparency question.
	Why didn't Savannah Guthrie disclose that her husband worked for the Depp team prior to interviewing Elaine?
	I don't know.
	If that were the case for me, I would have done it because I presume everyone would have found out, and when they find out, they're going to never trust me again, and trust is the most important thing on earth.
	Clark and Darden partied hardy, and Clark showed it, physically and strategically, in my humble opinion.
	Viva, does anyone know if the case was appealed?
	Damn it, I wanted to ask that.
	They talked about it.
	Apparently, if Amber appeals, she's got to post a bond, which is the judgment plus interest, which would be more than $8 million.
	So I don't know if she even has the money to do it.
	Viva, here in Canada, could a lawyer even give this kind of interview legally?
	They would have to be sure to show deference and respect to the court system.
	Because you cannot...
	You can't be disrespectful to the court system under our code of ethics, at least in Quebec.
	Okay.
	Spidey, amazing stuff.
	We'll end it now.
	Chat, thank you very much.
	If I missed anything on Rumble, I'm sorry.
	There's a few too many things going on.
	They talked about it.
	That's me.
	That's us on Rumble.
	Okay.
	Stream inception.
	Okay, people.
	We'll see you tomorrow, but definitely tomorrow night for the Jan 6th committee.
	Spidey, it was amazing.
	Stick around.
	We'll talk for a bit.
	Everyone else, thank you very much.
	Enjoy the rest of the evening.

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