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Jan. 7, 2024 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:09:36
Edition 781 - Elaine Kelly Returns
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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Well, thank you very much indeed for all of your nice emails and the sustaining things that you've said to me over these recent weeks while I've been less here than normal.
Not exactly not here because podcasts have been going out, but I've taken a slight back seat and now we're getting back up to gear with the unexplained.
So I'm always looking for guest suggestions.
If you've got one of those, please go to my website, theunexplained.tv, follow the link and send me an email with your suggestion.
Just in the title, put guest suggestion for Howard or whatever you want to put, and then I will see it and I will get onto it.
And if the guest is somebody who's not going to get me taken offline or fired, then we'll put them on.
I think that's the top and bottom of it, really.
Weather in London, if you're not in London, then it's grey at the moment.
It's rained heavily as it has in many places in the UK.
And my sympathy is with you.
If you're one of those people like my friends in Worcester, where I lived for a long time, not too far from the river, in fact, in Barbourne, my sympathy is with you wherever you are.
If you've been caught by the flooding, this seems to be an increasing trend.
The forecast for the next week or so is some freezing weather and even some snow.
We'll see if that materializes.
You know, I think I actually prefer, and this is my thought on it, I prefer it when it's crispy and cold and bright rather than dull and milder than it should be and wet and rainy.
I think that's the view of a lot of people, but that's how I feel about it.
So Christmas for me came and went very quickly.
Now we're back in the saddle and we're back at it.
Thank you very much to Adam for his work on the show.
Thank you to you for all of your emails.
If your email requires a response, please put reply required in the subject line.
And then when I'm going through all the emails, I will see that in an instant.
And if not, please know that I see all of the emails and take them on board as they come in.
Thank you for everything that you've said and all the guest suggestions.
And if you've made a donation to The Unexplained recently, which you can do through the website of theunexplained.tv, gratefully received and thank you.
The Facebook page, don't forget that, is the official Facebook page of The Unexplained with Howard Hughes.
Our guest on the first edition of The Unexplained for 2024 is Elaine Kelly from Spectre Detectors.
Ghost Hunter who's been at this for years, been in some of the national newspapers over the years, is always involved in something interesting.
So we're going to cross to the northeast to Elaine Kelly from Spectre Detectors very, very soon.
And we'll be asking also some of your questions.
Thank you for them for Elaine.
Okay, I think that's all I have to say at the moment.
If there's anything I've missed out, you can let me know.
So let's do it.
First guest of 2024, Elaine Kelly from Spectre Detectors.
Elaine Kelly, thank you very much for coming back on the show.
You're very welcome.
I'm pleased to be back.
Well, you know, look, all our listeners' thoughts, I know you won't want to be talking about this, and I understand why, but with your dad, I know who hasn't been too good lately.
Yeah, he had a fall.
He's 88.
He's 89 next month, my dad.
And he had a fall.
So he broke a rib and he dislocated his shoulder.
So he did a really good job on himself.
But he's out of hospital now.
He's recovering.
So, yeah, it's all good.
It was just a bit of a drama at the time.
But there you go.
You can say that.
I went through all of that with my dad.
And I know exactly how that feels.
And you've just got to drop everything and refocus when those things happen.
You do.
Yeah, it does.
It makes you realise that, you know, it's all right investigating and being out all the time, but I've had to cancel quite a few.
So going forward this year, I am not cramming 150 investigations into a year.
I'm trying to do two in one.
No, that's a slight exaggeration.
But honestly, when I looked at the diary, I thought he lay in, you know, because I can't say no.
No, I don't.
So when people say, you know, when people say, can you come along?
And I've got this.
And I'll say, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I can't now.
I'm going to have to slow down a little bit and, you know, focus.
Well, you know, I always try to say quality is the most important thing, not quantity.
So if you can focus on the good stuff, on the best ones, maybe that's where you ought to be going.
Now, look, you are a very, you know this.
If you've been looking at my social media, but you won't need my social media to tell you this, any way that you look.
You're a very popular guest.
People like you a lot, Elaine.
Do you think it's the accent?
Well, I think that helps because everybody thinks rightly that the Northeast is very warm and people are very open and friendly.
And I think that's a part of it.
But a lot of it, I think, is just about you and your approach to things.
You don't take yourself.
And I think this is really important.
And some people could learn a lesson from this.
You don't take yourself and all of this too seriously, do you?
No, absolutely not.
The thing is, you should enjoy what you do.
You know, it shouldn't be uptight and it shouldn't be scary.
It should just be people going along that like to do paranormal things that are interested in trying to find evidence.
But you have fun along the way.
Don't go uptight.
And, you know, sometimes you go on an investigation, nothing happens.
But you're supposed to have fun trying.
So that's all I do.
I love it.
I wouldn't.
This is our 13th year this year of investigating.
And if I didn't love it, we wouldn't be doing it.
It's just fun.
I get to spend the evening with people that we just have a laugh with.
And it's nice.
And that's how it should be.
And if it changes, I'll stop.
You know, that's it.
I'll hand it in if it changes.
Do you get the impression that whatever phenomena you're dealing with and the various phenomena that you're dealing with responds to you?
So you go into this, I'm not going to say in a light-hearted vein, but you're not taking it hugely, enormously seriously, where you're so focused and your brow is furrowed and all the rest of it.
You're ready for whatever comes.
Do you think that whatever you're dealing with sometimes knows that?
I think so.
I think that, well, they'll probably know me by now.
They'll think, oh god, here she comes again.
But I do, I'm light-hearted.
I play music for them.
If it's somewhere that's got children's spirit, I'll take toys.
I sit on the floor.
I sing nursery rhymes.
I've been known to take my keyboard along because, as you know, I play the keyboard and I play for them.
So if it's a school that was a music teacher, I'll play badly.
Or if there's a piano there and I don't play piano, I sound like Les Dawson when I play that.
And yeah, I think they just think, oh, God love her.
She's trying so hard.
Let's just give her something.
But it is.
And if I go somewhere war-related, as you know, I play Vira Lynn or anything like that, Gracie Fields.
That's what I do.
And it does seem to work.
So whatever it is, it's working.
I'll just keep doing it.
So apart from making you comfortable when you do it, and you go to a war-related venue, and there are many of those in the UK, you play Vera Lynn singing We'll Meet Again, which is very reminiscent of World War II in the United Kingdom, certainly, possibly also in the United States.
Does that make them feel comfortable as well as you?
By the sounds of it, it does.
Yeah, I think so.
Everybody like, I mean, you know what I'm like for, I mean, I know people don't like table tipping.
Some like it, some don't.
We have great results with it.
I find that if I play something like that and we are doing the table tipping session, that table dances.
And sometimes it looks like it dances in time to the music.
So something somewhere works and they like it.
So I'm just, I just try to come up with new ideas.
You know, I take trigger objects.
We went to a museum, Eden Camp, and I'd bought a uniform, a military uniform at a car boot sale, which broke my heart because I hate the fact that somebody's uniform ended up in a car boot sale.
So we bought it and I used it as a trigger object at Eden Camp.
We had a little bit of interest from spirit, you know, orbs and things moving.
And then I donated that uniform to Eden Camp.
So I try to do that as well.
So leave things.
And then if we have a school that we go to that is haunted by children, and I take dolls and I always say, if you manage to move that doll, I will leave you as a gift.
And the caretaker saw it open.
He's got a collection of my dolls now.
And he just leaves them for them.
So it's a gift for a gift, you know.
Just for my listeners in the United States and other parts of the world, Eden Camp, this is Eden Camp Modern History Museum in Yorkshire.
It is, yes.
It was a prisoner of war camp for the Italians, I believe.
It wasn't the most haunted place in the world, as you think it would be.
It really wasn't, but it was a lovely energy.
And we were so in awe that we were there.
The museum was closed and we were there through the night.
Just a small group of us, about 10.
And I loved it.
But like I say, that wasn't the most active place, but just to be there was enough.
I just loved it.
It soaked up the energy and the atmosphere and it was great.
We had a great night.
And you took part of the experience to that place.
In other words, the music and the vibe of that era.
Yeah, yeah.
That's all we do.
I mean, it's not rocket science, is it?
You know, just think everybody loves a bit of virulin.
And as we're playing it, we're singing it along as well.
Everybody's singing.
It's just nice.
And I just think it lifts the energy a bit.
Investigating shouldn't be flat and awkward and scary.
I don't want anybody who ever comes with me to feel scared because that's not what it's about.
You shouldn't feel scared.
It's the unknown.
And I want people to embrace it a bit, you know?
Why did you start this and why do you keep doing it?
No, that's a question and a half.
So when I was younger, we did experience spirit quite a bit because my family is a little bit creepy, but back then you didn't talk about it.
If you had an experience, you didn't say.
But later on in life, I started working at a supermarket and I worked at night shift with Bev.
Bev, who's in our group.
And it was haunted.
And we used to experience things all the time.
We used to see things walking past the aisle.
Things would get moved.
We'd see somebody.
And we just thought, you know, what about if we go somewhere and we manage to capture something on camera?
And don't get us wrong, everybody thinks the same thing, don't they?
I'm going to be the one that proves to the world spirit exists.
I'm going to catch a full-bodied apparition.
Well, we decided just as a group that we would, I googled the most haunted place in County Durham because I'd have a clue and I hired it.
And the guy asked me for a group name and I didn't even have one.
And that's where spectre detectors came from.
It was kind of the first thing I thought of.
And we gave him that and we hired it.
And that night we caught a man's voice on recording.
It was literally about 30 seconds long and we were in there four hours.
And that was enough to just want us to do it again and catch more and try and catch more.
And that was how it started.
All those years ago, back in 2011.
Where was that?
It was at Mainsforth Community Centre at Ferry Hill.
And we are going back this year.
I've booked it.
We had our 10th birthday there.
We went back there.
And we're going back this again this year.
I can't remember which month it is.
It's in the diary.
I think it's April or something.
But it's a huge, big, it's all mining related.
You know what County Durham's like for mining and community centers and welfare halls and it's all that kind of thing.
And we love to go back.
But it's from where we were last time, it had links to the REF as well, because you know that people in the war, they come from any village, everybody lost somebody in the war somewhere.
And we had a link with the REF the last time we went and it was a lovely guy.
He died in the war and he came back and we found him on the memorial there.
So you go somewhere expecting links with some, the, you know, the miners and then you end up getting a link somewhere else.
And then it just, it's fascinating.
They just see an opportunity and come in, I think.
We talked about that first investigation a long time ago.
And I think we've talked about it a couple of times.
When you go back to a place like that, and in this specific instance, how are you going to be approaching it?
What will you be taking?
And what difference will there be from the first investigation, if there is any well?
The first time we went, and as you just said, we've already spoken about this.
I had a handy camcorder that I've had, just an everyday camcorder.
It was mine.
I'd bought a K2 meter, you know, like an EMF detector, only because I'd seen it on the telly and it looked really cool and I needed one of them.
So I bought that and I bought a second-hand voice recorder.
That's all we had when we went that first time.
Now, when I go, my car boot is full and my backseat is full.
And I take everything, every single piece of kit, every single trigger object, everything goes along.
And I might not use it, but I like it to be there just in case.
And I've even blown up balloons there before.
And I know balloons move in the breeze and all this and the other, but we once had a balloon dancing on demand in there.
It's a fascinating place.
It's such good fun.
But it's eerie and it's the only place that I am scared to go at the toilet on my own in.
So there you go.
There's a fascinating fact for you.
I hesitate to be asking this question, but why is that?
It's so scary.
It's really scary in the ladies' toilets.
It's one of them feelings.
I don't know whether it's the hall because it's water and, you know, spirits draw things from water and all.
It's just eerie.
It's an eerie building.
It's like a rabbit warren.
There's corridors everywhere.
It's just got that creepy vibe, but in a good way.
But I just, we don't go the toilet on our own.
We go in twos.
So you think we're in a nice out in a pub because ladies do that, don't they?
But I won't go in there.
I won't put the toilet on my own in there.
Wow.
Well, that's going to be.
When are you doing that one then?
I think it's about April.
It's definitely booked it.
We've booked two.
I think one's April and one's September.
And if there's a Friday the 13th in September, whatever month there's a Friday the 13th, that's when we're going because that's when I've booked it for.
Friday the 13th.
Do you think that kind of thing, one of the questions I got in for you, and we can deal with it now, actually, was about Halloween.
And I always find people say to me, do a show about Halloween.
And actually, looking back through history, nothing much happened on Halloween.
I'm going to be corrected now by people.
But Halloween, I think, is more for the kids.
It's more for the ceremony of it.
It's actually no big deal.
That's only a personal opinion.
So when you say we booked it on Friday the 13th, do you think that Friday the 13th, apart from motivating you, is anything more than just a date in the diary?
I just think it's just a great date to do it.
I mean, 13 is a lucky number for most people.
It's not an unlucky number.
And I'm hoping it's going to be lucky for us that night.
And we're going to catch everything.
It's going to be amazing.
It's going to shoot us up in lights.
And that won't happen, will it?
Because it's just going to be fun.
Adding it to making it Friday the 13th just adds to the fun.
It's Friday the 13th.
Ooh, and we're going to a haunted place.
Let's have a great time.
I passed my geography O level and got a grade A on a Friday the 13th and I was so superstitious about taking that exam on Friday the 13th that maybe I tried a bit harder.
I don't know.
But I think it's often the reverse.
You're absolutely right.
I mean, again, Halloween.
It's just Halloween.
It just gives it that, oh, we're going to go.
I mean, I did a ghost walk Halloween night and it was at Bishop Auckland and we did, we all went round all because Bishop Auckland's fascinating.
It's where Stan Laurel went to school.
He went to my school and, you know, it's great.
And the Bishop of Durham lived in Auckland Castle and there's a 16th century in where a king was held and the Romans were there and it's great.
And we just went round and we had a brilliant night.
As you know, we use a portal and a spirit box and I took all of those things.
I took the table.
We did spirit photography.
I took night vision, did it in for a red and we had a great time.
And that's what I mean.
It's just having a good time.
If you get something, it's a bonus.
If you don't get something, you've had a great time.
You've just had fun.
So that's what we did, Halloween.
Okay.
And you said you took all those gadgets and gizmos and you were table tipping and you had the spirit box and all sorts.
What produced the most results?
And what do you think you connected with or to?
Well, I've done, I mean, I'm from Bishop Auckland.
I went to school in Bishop Auckland.
So we did connect to the, obviously the spirits linked in the building.
They did speak to us.
But the most fascinating part probably was we went to an area that used to be friends of a meeting house, like a Quaker meeting house, and there was a burial ground there.
Now, the bodies were exhumed to make way for the Halifax Building Society and the co-op.
But some of the bodies were left, so they're in the car park.
Now, people don't know that.
And I only found out by accident.
So we went there.
Yeah, I know.
Now we went there and we spoke.
And the table actually walked us to, because I asked it to, walked us to where the bodies actually were.
And it did.
So that was fascinating.
I mean, I know people think, oh, God, she's so wacky.
But it was really good.
You know, I said, can you tell me where the next body is buried?
In a respectful way, that sounds quite disrespectful.
We didn't, we weren't disrespectful at all.
We just said, is it true that there's bodies buried here?
And if so, could you please point out where they are?
And the table walked to everyone.
And when it stopped, I said, is this where one is?
And it tipped us a yes.
And I said, right, can you show me where the next one is?
And it walked again.
It's just fun in a weird way, but fascinating.
Just fascinates me.
And who or what was guiding you around the bodies?
Just spirits linked to the building, I would guess so.
You know, just because you know what you do, is anybody here linked to the building?
And you get a yes.
And then, you know, are you from the area?
Yes.
And you just ask any kind of questions like that.
But we were, we did what, I mean, Bishop, we walk quite some way.
And we even went to an area where, and not many people know, there was a home there for pregnant, unmarried ladies, which back in the day was, you know, a big no-no.
And we spoke to them.
Just anybody, anybody that wants to come through from the area can speak.
You know, as long as they point out and show me something relevant that I can learn, I love it.
You know about it, come and talk to me.
You say you spoke to Them.
Does that mean that some of the people who were housed there died there?
I don't know.
I mean, how I found out was we were investigating a place in the new main street, and it's a toy shop.
And she invited us along because they did see things and experienced things.
Sorry, I've got a bit of a throat.
And we found out from that that the names they'd given us, and I did the research, that they were buried in that ground over the road that I didn't even know existed.
So it all started from there.
So did I go there?
And were they planning me to be there so that I would, at a later date, go to that area?
It's just, it's one of them, you know, you think you've got answers to questions and you don't, you just end up with a million more questions that you didn't have before.
Do you get the impression that what it is you're communicating with or linking into, for them, time never stopped.
So they're still living whatever they were living.
Or do they know that they've departed and do they know that they're somewhere else?
Or does it vary?
I think most of the people, people, yeah, they were people.
Most of the spirits that I communicate with are quite well aware that they're in the spirit world.
They don't think that they're stuck there.
I do believe that people come back to tell their story and then leave.
So it's like a layer of, it's layers of an onion.
I can go to somewhere like Croxdale Community Center.
We've been there.
I must have been there 30 times and I communicate with somebody different every single time.
And I think it's because they want to tell you their story.
They want to tell you what their links to the school were or what their family in the village was or what they used to do for a living.
And then they go, I've never, I think that was one of your questions actually on your page.
I've never actually been to a place and watched a spirit walk straight through a wall and not acknowledge me.
And I know that happens and I'm not disputing that.
But I've always, they've always known I've been there and they're aware that I can communicate with them or see them.
So that goes against the whole sort of stone tape idea, doesn't it?
I know the question you meant that came through on my Facebook page, where, you know, something is recorded, it's somehow preserved within the fabric of a building or a location or some rocks, whatever it might be, and then it endlessly repeats itself like a film on a loop.
But if whatever it is is acknowledging you, then I think that kind of argues against that happening.
Well, I've never experienced that.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
I've got no doubt at all it does.
But I've never, well, apart from once, and I'm really not sure if it was that or not.
So this year we went to Chillingham Castle.
It wasn't as good.
We've spoke about Chillingham Castle when the wardrobe doors were rattling and everything.
This year when we went, it wasn't quite like that.
But I did experience a lady.
We stayed at the Grey Apartments.
It was the big main bedroom.
I was minding my own business.
We were doing an investigation.
And yes, it was dark.
And I went in the bedroom for something.
Can't even remember what it was.
And as I walked in, I saw a lady stood in the window, just a black shadow, but I could tell from her figure that it was a lady.
I jumped.
She disappeared.
So I don't know whether that was like the stone thing was standing there.
And that was the end of that.
And she vanished or whether I frightened her because as much as she frightened me.
I have no clue.
But I didn't scream, but I might have swore slightly.
I walked in, saw a mass in front of me, jumped.
She disappeared.
So I don't know.
I don't know what you take from that.
Was that like a recording playing it and I just caught the end of it?
Or did I make her disappear?
Because she just couldn't handle my squealing.
I don't know.
Maybe she thought you were the ghost.
That's an interesting thing, isn't it?
Maybe she did.
Maybe she was thinking, what is she doing in my room?
I don't know.
But that makes you think, doesn't it, that maybe you're impacting on their reality just as much as you think they're impacting on yours?
Maybe, because they say that about deja vu, don't they?
Supposed to be, some people think it's a parallel universe.
And when you do the deja vu, it's overlapping.
See what I mean?
You start talking about something and then you get another question.
It's just strange.
But yeah, she did make me jump.
I wasn't scared, but shocked.
I didn't expect somebody to have stood in the bedroom when I was going in.
And I saw her and she vanished as quick as I saw her.
But I know what I saw.
But it made my heart race quite a bit.
In your experience, and you can only really talk from your experience, and your experience is extensive, as we've said.
Are fully formed figures, things that you can actually see in three dimensions, which is like the one and only ghost that I saw, it was something very real for the two seconds or so that I saw it.
Are fully formed figures less common or more common than just vague shapes?
Oh, that's a good question.
And now I'm like you, I have seen fully formed apparitions to the point where they've walked past me and you think about it and then you look and think, that's strange.
And they've gone.
I've only seen that a couple of times.
And so I think that's quite rare.
And I think if you do see something like that, you really are extremely lucky.
But then, how do you know if you think that somebody's a person?
How do you know they are a person?
So how do you know you haven't seen a spirit without actually knowing you've seen a spirit?
Do you know what I mean?
So if I saw somebody and it was my auntie who passed and I know she just passed and I thought, hey, that looked like my auntie.
Exactly like my auntie.
And that's when I turned around and she wasn't there.
So I think it was my auntie.
But how do you know if you look like just a normal person, how do you know you haven't seen one?
I don't know.
Strange.
The majority of spirits I see aren't fully formed or they look like heat from a radiator.
You know, that ripply effect.
Quite see that quite a bit.
See shadow figures quite a bit.
See mists quite a bit, but not very often a full-bodied, full-figured apparition.
Interesting that you talk about the mists, because I think I might have mentioned this before, but many years ago, when I was very young and very foolish, I think I'm still very foolish, really.
I'm not very young now, but I'm very young.
But I was invited to a place where there was a bunch of people I didn't know and one person I did know.
And we were all sitting round and they were all interested in this kind of stuff.
And we were having what was becoming a slightly deep conversation.
And I remember that the temperature in the room, we were sitting on sofas, I think there were two parallel sofas, there may have been three.
I think there were maybe five people there, maybe six.
We're having this conversation.
And like I say, we're all this way inclined.
And the temperature dropped in that room and a mist appeared at kind of knee level.
And I've never forgotten that.
Because the person who I was with there, who was a medium, decided, right, I was inexperienced in these things.
It was time to stop whatever was beginning to start.
Does that sound familiar to you?
Yeah, it does.
We've seen mist and the temperature dropping or even going up.
Sometimes it gets hot.
Sometimes you walk through something, oh, that's, I mean, you can tell it's really hot.
I mean, most of the time it's cold.
But we do see mists.
But I do see shadow figures quite a lot.
You know, people see the whole, I can see something out of the peripheral vision and see that the corner of your eye and it's a black thing walking past.
That's quite often.
Yeah, it's just strange.
And lights, spirit lights, like little silver, sparkly, glittery lights.
See that quite a bit as well.
But it's, yeah.
I suppose they just use whatever way they want to show themselves.
I don't know.
I'm not an expert on it, but that's just what I see.
Manifestations of energy, perhaps.
All right, let's talk about some of the recent stuff then.
The Bonny Moore Hen.
Now, my research tells me that the Bonnie Moore Hen, which is in Stanhope County, Durham, is a hotel, and it's quite a kind of austere square-looking or rectangular building made of great big blocks of stone.
It's a real, it's a building built against the weather, I think.
But you went up to the Bonny Moore Hen and you found a link back to the Scottish War of Independence, I think.
And there was the Battle of Stanough to do with porches, and it's got such a great history.
We were invited up there because people experienced things, including a dog, a dog that had been seen.
And, you know, I can't say no.
And it's a great build.
And so we went up there.
Firstly, we went and there was only us private as a team.
We didn't do an event there.
We did do an event later on, but we just went up to test the water.
And we caught a photograph of a man in one of the bedrooms.
It was a great photograph.
He wasn't a nasty character or anything.
I think he must have just been wondering what we were doing in there.
But the cellar, apparently, it used to be a prison.
People were imprisoned in the cellar.
There were cells down there the first time we went.
And that was quite eerie.
It felt like some, I had a strange experience in there.
It was like something, a bat or something, it flew into my face and went, and there wasn't anything there.
It was strange.
That kind of shook me a little bit as well when something flies into your face because you don't know what it is.
But when we went there later, we found out, or we believe we found out, we were talking to the spirits of some ladies.
And I don't know whether, I don't want to upset anybody by saying this, but there was a priest from up there that had abused some ladies.
So we uncovered that as well.
That's what I mean.
So we go one time, we see a gentleman in a bedroom and a bat flies in my face in the cellar.
Next time we go up, we come across some kind of priest that it's abused some ladies.
And yeah, strange.
It's a strange, strange place.
But there's believed to be bodies buried in that cellar as well.
Seeing a link here, aren't we?
I'm the lady that uncovers bodies buried where they shouldn't be buried.
It's, yeah, great building.
Fabulous hotel if you ever want to go there.
It really is.
It has a lovely feel.
It's not eerie unless you're going to go down the cellar, which you just, you know, the public don't usually have access to the cellar, but I'm sure the ladies there would let you have a look if you wanted to.
The backstory of the priest.
Did you find that from doing your own research about it later, or was that something that made itself apparent when you were there?
Yeah, it was, there's nothing really noted there about that.
So we're just going to have to hope, not hope that it's true, because that's wrong.
So I don't want anything nasty to happen to any ladies, but it's like I say to one of these stories unraveling.
How do you prove that a priest did that to ladies and buried them in a cellar?
I mean, how do you find that?
How do you research that?
Anybody say if any historians are out there and you know anything about it, please get in touch.
But it was just, it was, it was a story we unraveled and we were talking to them.
And in the end, we kind of had to, the priest ended up being sorry for what he did.
And we kind of had to do this kind of moving on during a seance, which we don't really do.
But we tried our best to bring peace to the place.
And, you know, yeah, that was, that was what happened that night.
So that unpleasant priest is tied to that location.
And you're saying that you did a seance that helped him to move on?
Well, we had, we, yeah, we tried.
I mean, there were a few mediums in the event that night.
There wasn't just our group.
We had a public event and there were some mediums.
And in the end, what he said was he was scared to go because he thought he would be punished for what he did.
So that's why he haunted the building.
He was scared to move on.
So we kind of did the whole talking him around.
And in the end, the medium said that he was crying.
He was sorry for what he did.
And we just kind of helped him to try and move on towards the light.
I mean, I don't know.
It's not something we normally do.
There did seem to be a nice, peaceful feel afterwards.
So I'm hoping that he's gone, you know, to wherever he needs to go to and he's dealt with accordingly.
But yeah, that was what it was.
But the staff were being groped in there as well, you know.
That's why we went along.
The staff were having the bumfelt and nipped and things.
do we think by the priest?
I think so.
I think he was a little bit, yeah.
So not that repentant, then?
Not that repentant.
But I gave him a good talking to.
I gave him a lecture.
You can't do that.
You can't do that.
When you pointed out the gross error of his ways, did he seem to understand what you were trying to tell him?
Yeah, he seemed to.
Like I say, he was, He was on his knees asking for forgiveness.
He was sorry.
He's probably sick of me badgering him and giving him a lecture, to be fair.
I probably just broke him.
Yeah, I just, you know, when you're talking to them and you just say you can't do that, you can't come in here and treat people how you want to treat them.
You can't do that.
That's not acceptable.
But I would say that anywhere.
If I went anywhere and people were being grubbed, you don't do that.
You can't do that.
You wouldn't put up with that here if you were still alive.
You wouldn't do that.
So that's my approach.
Well, that's a disturbing bit of history that you came face to face with.
And you say that you didn't know about it and that people on the site didn't know about it.
Didn't have a clue.
No.
But there's circumstantial evidence.
Yeah.
One of the landladies that were there, she said she'd heard the rumour.
But yeah, I don't know.
I like things I can find, but a lot of things were covered.
That wouldn't have been anywhere.
There's no record of that happening.
So I'll never know if it's true.
It's just one of those experiences that I had.
There you go.
It's just part of my life.
We'll get to some questions at the back end of this because a lot of people have sent questions in and you've seen some of them, I think, on my Facebook page.
Yeah.
Just a quick one from Jonathan, regular listener to the show and friend of it.
Does Elaine Kelly like to be called ghost hunter or investigator or detective stroke detector?
Investigator, probably, because that's what I do.
I don't like the name ghost hunter.
It makes me feel like I'm chasing them with a spear.
And it is, isn't it?
I mean, I know I had a promotional video done when I first started and it's on there.
And it's a bit cringe worthy because it says, would you like to come on a ghost hunt?
It's not a ghost hunt.
Well, it is.
I know that's what they call them.
But it's a paranormal investigation.
We're just there to investigate.
Whether it's true, whether it's not, we're investigating.
That's what I like to be called, an investigator.
Gorgeous is a nice term for me as well, but I'll settle for an investigator.
Well, no, I did.
Look, you'll get no disagreement from me or any of the people who are your fans of whom you know there are very, very many.
Okay, thanks to Jonathan for that.
Back to the investigations then.
You had a chat with the famous highway robber Dick Turpin, apparently.
Yes, I did.
I've talked to him twice.
Once we did a ghost walk at York, I've spoken to him there.
I've even been to his grave because he's buried there.
And then I spoke to him at the George at Pierce Bridge near Darlington, where he used to hide in the tunnels.
And I didn't know there was a link to him there.
I really didn't.
Yes, so I've spoken to the infamous Dick Turpin.
He swears a lot, which I didn't actually think that swear words went back as far as Dick Turpin, but when you Google it, they did.
And he wasn't such a nice character that he's portrayed in the movies.
But yes, I've spoken to Dick Turpin.
Not many people can say that, can they?
Well, they can't.
I mean, when you did the one at Piers Bridge, or indeed the other one.
And this was at the George, was it a hotel, a pub there?
The George Hotel at Piers Bridge, yeah.
It's a lovely hotel.
No, I've looked at a picture of it just now.
It spreads over a long area.
It's a long, white, very grand building.
It is, yeah.
It's got another story as well.
You know the song, The Grandfather's Clock?
The grandfather's clock was there.
That's what the song is based on, The Grandfather's Clock, when it stopped when the old man died.
Wasn't at work again.
So there you go.
There's another fascinating fact about The George.
I haven't heard that song for years.
And is it sort of actively haunted, The George?
Does Turpin make his presence felt?
Well, things get thrown in The George.
They've got like a park where there's a library.
They've got books and the books get thrown.
See, we uncovered something there as well.
So one of the hotel rooms, I don't know which one it is.
I can't remember which hotel number it is.
One of the maids was supposed to have committed suicide, hung by one of the beams.
And she makes her presence known when men stay in the room.
So of course, we went up there as well.
Now, when we used our equipment and spoke to the lady, it turned out that she was having an affair with some grand man from the area and she was actually murdered.
And it was made to look like a suicide.
See what I mean?
This happens to me every single time I go.
So she was telling us the story.
Actually, people think I took my own life.
I didn't.
So that was another story from the George at the Pierce Bridge.
But I'll never find that out either.
Because that's not going to be anywhere, noted anywhere that some guy had an affair with a maid.
And honestly, this is what I mean.
This is why I write.
I write them down because the stories are just fascinating.
Are you writing any more books?
I've just, I'm waiting to self read, proofread another one about Bishop Auckland.
That's why I ended up doing the Halloween walk at Bishop Auckland because my fourth book about Bishop Auckland.
But I am slowing down writing because I don't have time, Howard.
By the time I investigate, then look at the research, then go through the census, then go through the new paper archives, then write about it.
It's just a full-time job.
But I really like doing it.
So, yes, I am about to release another book.
It's The Haunting History of Bishop Auckland.
It's going to be called.
When's that?
Well, I'm going to put, I'm waiting for it because I self-publish on Amazon.
I'm waiting for Amazon to send me an author's copy so that I can proofread it because I'm old-fashioned and I like it in my hand and I read it and I proofread it that way.
And then it'll be released.
So it will be this month.
It will be definitely released this month.
I tried to get it done before Christmas because I've got people waiting for it and they were going to buy it as Christmas presents.
But with everything happening with my dad, and it just put me behind.
So it's going to be this month.
And what is, maybe we've talked about it already, but what is the standout case in that?
Or am I going to spoil people's enjoyment of the book if you tell me?
But what is?
This one, I've done four Bishop books.
Everywhere we've gone, I've done the research about it.
This one is going to be, it is sad.
It's not going to be an uplifting book, really, this one, because it involves the workhouse.
We had a workhouse at Bishop Auckland.
It involves that home for unmarried mothers.
It's going to include the burial site that we've just spoken about.
It's going to be that.
There's lots of, I do research and if it's made it into the newspapers, it's not for the right reasons, really.
So it's stabbings and murders.
And there's a story of one lady.
She was carrying gunpowder.
This is a spoiler, carrying gunpowder in her dress pocket.
She'd bought it for her husband, which I mean, you wouldn't even think about now.
And she'd gone to the pub for a drink, lit a pipe, because ladies smoked pipes back then, and blew herself up with the gunpowder.
That can't be true.
No, it's in the papers.
It's a true story.
So it's in the book.
That's what I mean.
It's a different world.
So that's, I've done a lot of research.
I've done the workout.
I've done the censors from the workhouses.
I've done murders, prostitution, people blowing themselves up with gunpowder, child neglect.
It isn't an uplifting book, but it's history.
So it's in this one.
And it's a huge book.
It's 320-something pages long, this book.
And it's mostly research.
So I'm stopping, Bishop Auckland.
I think I've covered it as much as I can on this one.
Now, like the poor lady then who blew herself up by having gunpowder in her pockets.
I know.
And then lighting up, which is not a thing to do.
And, you know, please don't smoke anyway, but, you know, it's not a sensible thing to do.
Naked flames around gunpowder is a recipe for disaster in anybody's book.
Those who've been involved in accidents, are they aware of the accident?
And are they shocked at being where they find themselves, if you know what I'm saying?
Now, that's a good story.
They do come back and tell us that it just kind of in shock, I think, for a while.
And I think that's why some of them come back to tell me so that if any relatives are there, they can let them know they're all right.
I think that's why a lot of we go somewhere and we get some really random people.
We do invest, this has happened a lot last year.
We were going places, the mitre at Bishop Auckland is a hotel.
And then we did that.
But family members were coming through.
And we were finding that was happening an awful lot.
So we were speaking to people linked to the hotel, but then actually people, staff, bar staff, their loved ones were coming through with messages that, you know, maybe there'd been tragedy and trauma.
And they wanted them to know they were okay.
So what we ended up doing was last year, a lot, instead of doing investigations, we were putting on nights of loved ones.
So we're doing evenings of loved ones.
And I don't do that normally.
That's not what paranormal investigating is about.
But I was thinking, if loved ones are coming through, why don't I just give them an opportunity?
Why don't I just get people in?
And if the loved ones want to come through and talk to them, they can.
They can use our equipment.
They can use our table.
They can use whatever they want and speak to the loved ones.
And that's what we did.
We did about three or four last year and they were really successful.
Quite sad, but it's like giving somebody a hands-free phone to their loved ones because it's even their voice.
It's great when it works.
And like I say, we've had tears and laughter and people get to ask things that they maybe didn't get a chance to ask and they get a chance to ask their loved ones.
So we haven't got any plan for this year, but that was where we went last year with that.
And only because loved ones were coming through on investigations and we couldn't investigate for messages for people.
So there.
I was just going to say, what a unique and moving and amazing thing to do.
I know.
And like I say, they pushed us.
We're just there.
You've got no control on an investigation.
They have full control.
If they don't want to talk to you about that building, they're not.
You can't force them.
And bribing them and talking to them terrible is not going to help them.
Bullying them.
If a loved one wants to come through and you think, right, okay.
I mean, that was a really good example, the mitre.
We spoke to one landlady.
I mean, it's been there from the 1800s.
We spoke to one landlady and the rest were loved ones.
And it was messages that those loved ones were desperate to get through.
And the staff were so overwhelmed by it that it's not a great chapter in my book because I can't put that loved ones bit in.
It's private.
But you've got to remember I'm recording as well.
So when their loved ones come through with these messages, it's all recorded and on tape.
Tape.
I sound old there.
You know what I mean?
And then I obviously don't open that to the public because everything I do goes on YouTube, but that doesn't.
That's private.
And what I did was I sent those staff members a link and they can listen to that as many times as they want.
So they've got that recording.
Okay.
So you can't tell me the specifics of the messages, but what sorts of things were being communicated?
Just basically, as you said, I'm all right.
Is that the strength of it?
No, but somebody, I think it was a cousin had died young.
I can't remember the details, but he wanted everybody to know that he was okay.
He even told them that he knew they had a wedding coming up and that he was going to be there.
And he knew what the first song was going to be.
That's what I mean.
It's really strange.
And somebody had lost a baby.
And that baby came through.
Well, somebody brought the baby through to let them know that that child was with loved ones in spirit and that it was fine.
But it's really heart gut wrenching at times, but it's something that somebody obviously needs to hear and they use us as a chance to get to that person to get that message.
And you said it's gut-wrenching and heart-wrenching.
Does the emotion then is the emotion palpable?
Can you feel it?
You can.
You can feel it.
There were tears, but obviously happy tears because then they can speak to people and it's like they're having a conversation that they didn't have.
And sometimes I'll say, do you want me to leave?
Because it's private.
And then they always say, no, no, no, stay.
But it's that you feel like that's a moment.
That's their moment.
You know, when people say, I wish I had five minutes on a bench with a loved one, that's what it is.
Yeah, they can't see them, but they can hear them.
It's like they're having a conversation with a, through a phone.
And they can talk to them about whatever they want.
I mean, they tell you things that maybe you don't want to know.
Somebody said about a stabbing and somebody said, you know, all kinds of things.
And you think, ooh, dear me.
But yeah, it's their opportunity to come through.
And I mean, I had a message of a loved one.
And my auntie died last year in August.
I was really, really close to her.
And the night before a funeral, I did a night of loved one and she came through for me.
And it wasn't my, it was, I was just there to help everybody else.
I didn't expect to get a message that night.
And it wasn't a massive message, but it was just a, I'm an okay message.
So I got that as well.
So I felt how they felt when they get theirs.
Do you know what I mean?
It's, yeah, it's not the way we wanted to go with investigating, but a way we were kind of pushed to do.
So we just went along with it.
That's what we did.
Glad you did.
All right.
I'm going to get on to these questions now, some of which came through the Facebook page, some of which you kindly emailed to me.
And we're going to have to keep each one a bit brief, but they're important and let's do them.
Here's Colin.
Colin says, why are some ghosts sentient and can see and interact with you?
Whereas other ghosts are like, we talked about it, the stone tape theory, which is like a repeating scene over and over again.
He's asking you a why then, and I'm not sure that you would have that answer, but what do you think?
I don't know.
I honestly don't know because I've never experienced it.
Could it be that I know I've experienced spirits who I've known I've been there and have walked away that like they've walked through a wall.
And then when I've done research, it's because there used to be a corridor there.
So they've gone the way they would go.
So that kind of makes me think, why didn't they go the way?
Because if they can see you and they can talk to you, they must know that the building's changed.
Or are they just showing me that to prove that there was a doorway there?
I really don't know.
I can't answer that because I've never experienced it.
But maybe they just want people to see how they used to live and what they used to do.
Maybe they don't want to talk to anybody and they just want to keep themselves to themselves and just do their thing.
I don't know.
I honestly don't know.
Well, that's a thought I hadn't had before.
Steve asks, do you think that sightings of spectres have dropped since the introduction of modern tech like camera phones?
Now, the newspapers would suggest that those sightings and recordings have rocketed, but what do you think?
I was going to say, I don't think they've dropped because more people have.
The only thing is with having mobile phones and apps and things like that, you're not quite sure now what is fake and what is real because there's a lot of people fake things and I really don't understand that either.
But I don't think sightings have dropped.
If anything, I think they've probably rocketed because people have CCTV and things and then they're catching things.
So that's when they contact me and say, I've got this.
Can you have a look at it?
A lot of people send me things.
Will you have a look at this film footage?
Will you have a look at this photo for me?
See what you think.
So, no, I don't think it's dropped.
I think if anything, it has gone up.
But like I say, with technology, you can fake things, which makes my life harder.
Because when I catch something really good, I don't tend to share it on other sites because sure enough, they'll put fake, fake, fake, fake, fake.
This is fake.
This is apt.
This is Photoshopped.
I don't even know how to put Zoom on a phone.
Never mind.
Photoshop.
A picture.
But that's me.
I'm 49.
I'm a fossil.
I don't do technology.
Oh, yeah.
Just a youngster, Elaine Kelly, and you know it.
I'm 50 this year.
Do you know, when I was a kid, oh, there were carts in the streets and cobblestone?
No, when I was a kid, if anybody said, I tell you, my mum always used to ask me, you went to interview this person.
And she'd say, how old were they?
And I said, oh, about 35.
And everybody old to me when I was doing my first interviews was about 35.
Now I look back at 35 and I think, geez, I wish I was 35 again.
But that's a whole other point.
Just back to the fakery, just very, very quickly.
Do you think that the rise of artificial intelligence and the fact that it's going to be dead easy for people to make stuff up is going to wreck what you do?
Yeah.
I am a bit worried about that.
Because like I say, I already get, I mean, don't get us wrong, I've got quite a thick skin.
I didn't have back in the early days.
I used to take everything to heart when people were awful, because I have had some awful things written about me.
And I used to think, I'm packing this in.
I can't be done with it.
Now I don't even read it.
If people want to have that opinion about me, that's not for my, I can't change their mind and I don't really need to.
But when the artificial intelligence thing came, I thought, oh, this is going to make it even worse.
It's just whatever happened to it.
Bring back the old equipment, like old handicam tapes and things.
Let's just go old school.
But I'll just carry on.
I'll just keep going.
I'll just keep setting up my CC TV and hope that I can catch something.
And I'll just keep plodding on like I do.
Well, people like you, Elaine.
And if you look at my Facebook page mentioning that again, you'll see how many people like you because you're honest in what you do.
Now, a question from G. I think it's G, it's G-I-G.
Gene says, Elaine, do you sometimes find that there are different, this is a good one, different qualities of darkness in a room?
And does that relate to the paranormal activity there?
Oh, yeah.
I know what you mean.
So if we're, you know, your eyes are just, it's dark when you first go in, you get settled, and you can kind of see better once you're in there.
Sometimes we go to places, and it's you can tell it's it's kind of like a it hits you like a fog.
You can feel the atmosphere in the room, but it doesn't lighten.
Your eyes don't adjust, or if they have adjusted, then you can suddenly see the darkness coming in.
So, I don't know, is that oppression?
I don't know.
I know exactly what you mean because I've experienced it, and that light doesn't lift.
And sometimes you can't, I personally can't stay in there that long, I have to get out because I just have to step out and step back in again.
So, yeah, that is a good question.
It's strange.
Thank you for that one, G. Mark asks, and I'm not sure whether the premise of this one is correct, but you'll tell me what you think.
Mark says, why don't they, that's investigators, see ghosts wearing modern clothing like track suits or shorts and that kind of thing?
Well, maybe they do, maybe they don't.
What do you say?
Oh, I do.
I have.
That's what I mean.
So a prime example, it was quite a few years ago.
We did a little community center in a pit village because it was supposed to be haunted by a nun.
I don't know what the nun link was.
I can't remember.
It was years ago.
And we spoke to an old caretaker.
He hadn't been passed long.
And we also spoke to a young lad that had died tragically.
I think it was a road traffic accident or something a few years before.
And we have a photo of the caretaker and of the young lad.
The young lad had a very modern haircut and a track suit on.
And the caretaker had a blue woolly jumper on underneath the stairs.
So yeah, we have experienced new people, you know, not Roman soldiers and things like that.
We have experienced people from dressed in 80s clothing, modern day clothing.
So whether we're really lucky or not, but we have.
We have experienced that.
Rich got in touch and said there's some research that he's seen that says 80% of EVPs electronic voice phenomena recordings are children.
Is that what you find?
It depends on where you're investigating.
If I go to a school, then yes, but if I go to an old nafi, no, because I've caught voices of children, of ladies, of men, of cats meowing, of dogs barking, and I even caught a parrot.
A parrot.
So there you go.
A parrot?
Caught a parrot?
Yeah, I know.
Do you get domestic pets like dogs and cats?
You do, don't you?
Yeah, I do.
I've got recordings of cats meowing.
I've got recordings of dogs barking.
And they weren't in the building.
We didn't hear it at the time.
Shotton Hall, Shotton Colliery, they have a big stately home.
And we all experienced the feeling of a cat.
You know, cats go around your legs, don't they?
They wrap themselves around you.
We experienced that.
And we heard the cat meowing.
And luckily, it was caught on recordance.
So it caught the cat.
And Shotton, that's North Wales, yeah?
No, Shotton's Peter Lee.
Oh, I don't travel to North Wales, Howard.
Just to Pitt Village.
Okay, well, let me tell you that if you did go to North Wales, there's an awful lot to find there.
And I know that because my ancestry is sort of North Wales.
Well, some of the ancestry, that which is not Scottish or Irish is Welsh.
Certainly not English.
But North Wales is absolutely replete with things.
I remember walking around where they did I'm a Celebrity a few years ago when there was COVID and they couldn't leave the UK.
They did Guruk Castle.
Grick Castle, which is North Wales coast.
That was a spooky place.
Okay, back to the question.
I'd love to go.
I'd love to go.
Oh, no, you must.
You must, you must.
We'll have to try and find a way.
Gav asks a question about the stone tape theory, which I think we've answered more or less, Gav.
Hope you heard that.
Thank you for the question.
John says, has anybody ever wondered why all these ghosts and spirits speak English?
Well, I guess that's, I mean, I'm answering your question for you, but which I shouldn't.
I guess that depends on who the investigator is.
But what do you think?
Have you encountered ghosts and spirits that speak languages other than this one?
I have.
There's a shock A. So obviously, most spirits speak English, but we went to, this is another conversation.
We went to a place where somebody had dabbled with a little bit of something they shouldn't have and left something behind in a community centre.
And we went along.
That spoke to me in a language that I didn't understand.
And it sounded a bit like Latin and then told me to pray.
That was one.
And then another was at the old ammunitions factory in Newton Aircliffe where the Aycliffe Angels helped cut the powder and the bullets and things.
Somebody spoke to me in German.
And I've got those on recording as well.
But I didn't ever get it translated.
Nobody ever translated.
It sounds German.
I don't speak German.
It just sounded German.
You probably get that done electronically now.
And that place with the Italian...
Did you ever get any Italian?
No.
Didn't.
Like I say, it really wasn't the most active place.
It was just nice.
I thought going to a prisoner of war camp, it would have been really, you know, oh, things are going to happen.
From all accounts, it wasn't a sad, awful place anyway.
They had a lovely life.
But it was just, yeah, no, unfortunately not.
I didn't get any Italians.
I think there were some Italian POWs.
Listeners will tell me if I'm wrong, especially my friend who runs Manx Radio on the Isle of Man, but I think there were some also held in the Isle of Man.
And I think it was quite a, you know, free and not free and easy, but it was a freer atmosphere.
I think they were out.
I get the impression that it was.
Yes, they were prisoners of war.
Of course, they were, but I don't think it was.
I think it was relaxed.
It was quite a relaxed place.
Detainees, I think.
Sharon in Derby, thanks for this, Sharon.
Says, being brought up a Catholic, brackets not anymore, I was told very young by a priest that people only, a person only, can be exorcised, and the definition of an exorcism was the removal of a demon from a soul.
But we're constantly hearing of houses or buildings having exorcisms.
What are your views on this?
And, you know, what do you think, Elaine, about the idea that you could actually purge a spirit or a presence or some kind of occupation by a demon or a spirit or something?
You know, you can purge it from a place, a building.
Right.
So I've had a couple of experiences with, I don't know whether I'd call them demons.
I don't know.
Whatever they were weren't very nice.
And usually they've been left behind by people practicing things that they shouldn't have dabbled with and didn't really know what they were doing.
So it's happened on two occasions.
One with the Latin thing, I've just spoke about.
They were having Slim and World classes.
And every time they've had a tray of coffee, this thing whacked the tray and poured coffee all over whoever was carrying it.
So they weren't having a great, great time with this thing.
Now, I'm no expert and I'm not a demonologist.
Certainly not.
I don't dabble in things that I don't know anything about because you can make things worse.
But what I've done in the past, and this will shock you, me negotiating skills.
So I always say, what are you doing here?
You know, why are you here?
Do you really need to be here?
What brought you here?
And then I do a little bit of coaxing.
Why don't you leave them be?
Why don't you move on from here?
Why don't you go back to wherever it is you came from?
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't work.
If I get something that is really, really bad and it doesn't want to go, then I would contact the local spiritualist church and get them to deal with one of it because, you know, they're experts and things I'm not.
But yeah, nine times out of ten, I can talk to them and say, come on.
And it really scares me, to be honest, because I'm used to talking to spirits.
And nine times out of ten, the spirits I talked to are lovely.
You do get a moany one, but that's fine.
But when you're talking about something that wax trays and whacks coffee all over people, that's a little bit different.
It is a little bit different.
I hope I don't get one of those here.
Because as my friends know, I exist on black coffee.
Okay, so I think to do Sharon's question justice, what can we say about the idea that it's only possible to exercise those which have been people and it isn't possible to exercise bricks and mortar?
I suppose, is it an exorcism or is it a cleansing?
If I was going to go into a building and try and release something that isn't there negotiated, I don't think I would class myself as doing an exorcism.
I think it's more like a cleansing.
That's just my thought.
An exorcism is something completely different that I would never be involved in.
I don't want to see it.
Thank you.
I just leave that alone.
But yeah, I just cleanse a building.
I don't, but I mean, like I say, I have negotiated and only because I've gone and they'll go, oh, you'll have to try and get rid of that.
I'm sick of it.
And you're there thinking, well, I can't leave you with it.
I need to try and do something.
So that's when we do the negotiating and come on, let's move from here.
And, you know, we have done the salt and we have done the sage and we have done the prayers, but only in a way to try and lift the energy in the building, but not an exorcism.
I don't ever get a cross out and holy water and, you know, do all of that thing.
It's a means to an end.
Rob asks, and I don't expect you to have the answer to this, but I did look up the answer, which I'll share if you don't have it.
But Rob says, what's the earliest example of a ghost that we have?
He says, I've heard of Roman soldiers being seen, but what about those who walked before?
I've seen Roman soldiers.
I've seen a lot of monks.
No, it's a good point, actually.
I mean, we never see, you know, Saxon or Iron Age and things.
I haven't.
Other people might have.
I don't know.
I really don't know the question.
I've never experienced anything other than probably the Roman soldiers and the monks is the earliest that I've seen, I would think.
And the interesting thing about a lot of the apparitions that are seen, it is said, and it's been discussed on my show many times before over these last 18 years, is that sometimes apparitions like centurions are seen minus their legs.
And it is speculated it's because the level of the land, the level of building, has been going up and up and up.
I remember looking at when they excavated Southampton, which has got Roman fortifications underneath it.
Those who live in Southampton will know.
I think not very far from the BBC building there.
When they did that, it's all below.
And Chester is another example.
I used to go to Chester a lot when I was a kid.
Loved Chester.
But a lot of this stuff is below current street level.
And it's suggested that that's why we sometimes see apparitions minus their lower half, their legs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've heard of that before.
I mean, it's the same in York.
Roman soldiers have been seen in York and they're lower down than the actual ground.
But that's another thing.
Are they showing us that?
Are they showing themselves like that so that we know that the ground was lower?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Really don't know.
Well, the answer that I found online on a couple of sites was that a clay tablet made in ancient Babylon 3,500 years or so ago may be the earliest known depiction of a ghost.
I see that we're running out of time here on the link here, so I'm going to keep the next things brief.
But Mark asks, Mark is in Gateshead, okay, so he's local to you.
He wants to know about stories from Gateshead.
Can we kind of limit it to, for Mark, your favorite story from Gateshead.
That's putting you on the spot, isn't it?
I was going to say, no, now.
I've never investigated Gateshead.
Have you not?
So that's no, but I am this year.
I'm going to Gateshead this year.
So I've done Chicksham and I've done Newcastle, and those we on, but I've never done Gateshead.
But like I mentioned to you before, people might have heard of the Gateshead Gray.
It's an alien story.
I know you've covered it before.
I haven't looked into it.
This year, we've been invited to a building from that alien encounter.
So we are going there this year.
You need to ask me this question after I've been.
Okay.
And can I just say to my listeners, sometimes listeners say, you jump in.
It's not a question of you jump in.
Sometimes there's a bit of a digital delay on things.
And also, because we can't see each other, it's less easy to anticipate what it is.
So it's not me jumping in.
We're just both very enthusiastic, I think.
Just to say to my listener, The Gateshead Gray, we have told the story before here.
And it's a great, great story.
This is a kid called Robert Hall, who was five.
It was 1940, so we were into World War II.
I think there was a bunch of strange, short creatures seen, and then I think a day or two later, those previous creatures had spoken to him in perfect English, and he said that they'd taken blood quotes out of the back of my neck.
I'm quoting from a local newspaper here, and put some jelly on it.
I was frightened that I was shaking, because you would be when you were that age.
And later, I think it was maybe a couple of days later, a grey alien fitting the common description of an extraterrestrial, big eyes, big head, grabbed him.
I fell over the curb, bashed my toe.
Uncle Ernie saw what was happening and bashed him on the head with a coal shovel.
And the alien's body was allegedly put in a coal sack and taken away.
And a police person was told, then the army was called in, and then they were all told to shut up about it.
It's a great story.
Yeah, it is.
I can't wait to go.
I hadn't even heard about it until I was asked.
That's what I mean.
They found me.
Will you come and investigate this?
We think, well, actually, what he said was we think we know where the alien was buried.
And of course, I'm, yeah, absolutely.
Put me down for that.
So we're going up there.
When is that again?
When are you doing that?
I believe it's in the summer holidays.
So July, I think, something like that.
But I'll let you know.
I'll definitely let you know.
There we go.
Oh, no.
It's July the 21st.
We go there.
Well, that'll be a really good one to do.
I mean, if you can find that location, if that location still exists, won't that be interesting?
Last one comes from me.
The Northeast, what is it called?
The Northeast Land, Sea and Air Museum.
Yes, yeah.
In Sunderland, isn't it?
Yes, yes.
It always fascinated me, this story.
You got an image of what appears to be an aircraft or airline cabin crew standing there complete with a hat, I think, and bag, shoulder bag, just like cabin crew, but very late 60s, early 70s, perhaps.
You did a little bit of investigating about that.
Are you going back there?
We are twice this year.
I was supposed to go September last year.
And my sister-in-law had cancer and died in her 50s.
So I had to cancel.
So I didn't go back.
2023 was a bit of a terrible year for tragedy and things.
But we've booked two more dates this year and we are going back.
Yes, definitely.
So, and I still haven't found out for definite who she is.
She didn't show the last time I was there.
It was the time before.
So, yeah, still haven't found out who she is, but we are going back.
So, maybe one day we'll find out.
May all of your investigations in 2024 be fruitful ones, Elaine Kelly.
And may all of your experiences through this year be nice ones.
Thank you very much for being my first guest of this year.
Thank you so much.
And thanks for having me.
Thank you.
Elaine Kelly from Spectre Detectors.
She will reappear on The Unexplained through 2024.
Thank you very much for being part of this.
We have more great guests in the pipeline here at the home of The Unexplained.
So until we meet again, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained in 2024, 18 years of The Unexplained.
Until next we meet here, please stay safe.
Please stay calm.
And above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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