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Sept. 9, 2023 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
49:09
Edition 754 - Fr. Malachi Martin
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet.
My name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Thank you very much for being part of my show.
I'm sorry for going on about this in recent podcasts, but at the moment I'm recording in a period of really hot weather.
We've had the weirdest summer in the world ever here in London.
It started with a little bit of extreme heat, then it became weeks and weeks and weeks of dull skies and rain and rather cool, where other parts of Europe burned and baked.
Now, it's the back end of summer, very nearly autumn here in London, and we've got 31 degrees Celsius, 90 Fahrenheit upwards here, and I have to tell you, I'm sitting here in a pair of shorts, no air conditioning or anything like that.
I've got equipment on here, and it's hot.
It is danged hot, and it's not really the kind of conditions that you should be recording a podcast in.
But I am used to working around the world in all kinds of conditions, so, you know, it's all part of the experience, really.
I do hope everything is okay with you, and thank you so much for all the ways that you support me through all of this.
It has been an interesting adventure.
And remember, if you want to check out whatever is happening with me, whatever is happening to that TV show that I do, whatever is happening with the podcast, anything to do with me, you can always find that out either by listening to these podcasts, which I hope you do and please spread the word, or by going to my Facebook page, the official Facebook page of The Unexplained with Howard Hughes.
I have talked for enough now.
I'm going to stop talking, apart from saying thank you to my webmaster, Adam, for his work, and to you for being part of the show.
What we're going to do on this edition, something from my television show recently, and a subject that I love to speak about and explore, but it's so hard to find guests to talk about this subject.
The subject is Father Malachi Martin, the famous exorcist priest who used to appear regularly in late-night sessions with Art Bell and do hours with art, about the power of evil and how you overcome it, the process of exorcism and how it's visceral and sometimes quite violent and how you prepare for that and how you decide whether somebody really is a candidate for exorcism and who was involved in that and the sorts of things that happened in those experiences.
What a fascinating man.
He was at the heart of the Catholic Church for a long period.
Sadly, Father Malacharmartin is no longer with us.
And finding people to talk about his remarkable life and times is really difficult.
There are very few, but I found one.
And he appeared on the television show, so for posterity's sake, this is the complete unexpurgated version of the whole thing here.
This man is Robert A. Morrow.
And you will hear how he got to know and became involved with Father Malachi Martin right from their first connection, their first meeting on this edition of The Unexplained.
So I think you're going to find this one pretty riveting.
I'm really pleased that I was able to make this one happen.
This is from my television show, Robert A. Morrow, and we're talking here the full story of how I found out about Father Malachi Martin and how you did too.
Now, I first discovered this genre of broadcasting about 26 years ago, to be precise.
I was working for London's Capital Radio on their huge morning drive breakfast show, the Chris Tarrant show, and I was the guy who did the news and did knockabout stuff with Chris.
And one of the things that I discovered in the mid-90s was the internet, thanks to the person who was my helper at Capital, Jenny, who said, you know, I was at college and we were using this great thing for gathering news, the internet.
So I had to have, from the moment I started using the internet, a computer.
And I had to have one at home.
So I bought one through the company.
The company bought one and then I bought it progressively on the credit card from them.
And I remember it was a Dell, and it was, they said it's got a big hard drive.
You probably won't need a 3 gig hard drive.
This is a true story, right?
You know, what are hard drives now?
Two, three terabytes, whatever.
This was three gigs of a hard drive, which is like not even a memory stick these days.
I took this thing home.
I wired it up.
It had a 56K or 28K dial-up modem that went, all that stuff.
And I started doing the thing that my boss had told me that you can do.
He said, oh, Howard, you know that you can listen to radio stations from all over the world.
And, you know, he was Scottish, by the way.
He's probably not watching tonight, so I can probably get away with that.
It's a very bad impression.
Oh, Howard.
Oh, you can listen to radio stations.
So first thing I wanted to do, you know, forget everything else, forget the email, listen to radio.
I discovered Art Bell's show.
My hero, as I've said earlier in this show, and I say constantly on podcasts, a man who I got to know.
The greatest guest that he ever had in his show was a man, in my view, Father Malachi Martin.
Now, I found one biography of him online.
The details I may be subsequently in this hour corrected on, but I'll read it to you anyway.
Father Malachi Martin, who came from Kerry and worked on the Dead Sea Scrolls, claimed to have been the inspiration for the archaeologist priest featured in the 1973 horror film The Exorcist.
Martin was the author of several books, including the best-selling Hostage to the Devil.
He made regular appearances on US TV and radio, Art Bell Show, promoting his writing and detailing his experience as an exorcist, which was the most chilling, scary, terrifying experience that I've ever heard, literally.
You would wonder how a human being, flesh and blood, could tolerate some of the stuff that Malachi Martin went through.
But he was determined to cast out, if he could, the devil.
And he believed that Satan was real and was a part of this world unless we did everything that we could to make sure that Satan was not.
But we had to be constantly vigilant and wary.
Malachi Martin made many appearances on Coast to Coast AM Art Bell Show with stories of evil, the devil, and terrifying exorcisms.
And from one of those shows, I think Around about 1997, which seemed to be the real peak of this, 97 through about 2002.
Here's a little flavour, if you've never heard of this man, of the way that he sounded.
It's always within a house.
It's in a room.
There's nothing on the walls.
No nails, no pictures.
Nothing that can move.
You don't have glass around the place that can be shattered.
And you have the person in question is either violent or not.
Most times not violent to begin with.
And there's either a bed, an iron bed, or a chair, or whatever.
You have no table, but people, you have an exorcist with an insistent.
And he has his assistant.
The assistant is the priest, and then he has several other people, usually men dressed in clothes that can take a lot of hardware.
That was part of him describing how to deal with somebody who ostensibly was possessed.
And that was a situation he found himself in many times.
And the consequences, as you will hear if you want to go back through Atbell's archive, were terrifying and chilling many times, things that you and I wouldn't want to experience.
You may not believe that there is such a thing as evil, as pure, unadulterated, visceral, bad.
But if you listen to Malachi Martin, it might change your view.
I'm not telling you there is, but he would if he was here now.
I never got the chance to interview him.
I did try.
But I'll tell you who did know him closely, Robert A. Marrow Jr., who is our guest this hour.
Let me tell you a little bit about him.
Robert Marrow met the Reverend Malachi Martin through a traditionalist priest at the Church of St. Agnes in New York City in 1990.
At the time, Robert was a covert operations officer for the CIA stationed in New York City.
I'm not going to tell you any more about that.
Let's get him on.
Robert Marrow, thank you very much for coming on my show tonight.
Good evening.
It's a pleasure to be here.
What an astonishing man was Father Malachi Martin.
How did you find him?
How did you come across him?
Well, I came across him when I was...
I was having dinner with a friend of mine who, as you pointed out, was a traditionalist priest, Catholic priest at the Church of St. Agnes.
You probably would resonate, the name Archbishop Fulton Sheen would probably resonate with you.
That's the church where he had his residence.
And the street that it's on is named Archbishop, has been renamed Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen Street in his honor.
But one night, he and I, this priest and I were having dinner, what we used to call cheap Chinese.
And he asked me what book I was reading.
And I just told him, I'm reading a book by this gentleman named Malachi Martin.
And the name of the book is The Keys of This Blood.
And at that point, this priest, his name is Father John.
He perked up.
He says, oh, I know Malachi Martin.
He says, would you like to have dinner with him some evening?
And I almost leaped out of my chair.
I had known of Malachi Martin since my years in high school.
And I said, of course.
He said, well, I'll arrange it and I'll let you know.
And we ended up having dinner a couple of weeks later at an Italian restaurant on the Upper East Side of Manhattan called the Isle of Capri.
And that's what got the ball rolling.
It seemed to me whenever I was listening to him, and as we said, he was originally a carry man from Ireland, that he had the same kind of quiet intensity of somebody like Liam Neeson.
There was a real draw power to him.
So when you're sitting opposite him in a restaurant, first time, what's that like?
Well, he was very disarming.
You did not get the feeling you were sitting in front of a man of intellectual or personality-based intensity.
He made you feel right at home.
He actually made you feel like you and him had been fast friends for 20 years.
And in fact, I remember I was addressing him the first few times.
It was myself and this other priest who had facilitated the introduction and several seminarians from New York City.
And we were sitting at Caddy Corner.
It was a long table.
He was seated like at the head of the table, and I was seated to his immediate right, the first person proceeding down the table.
And I kept calling him Dr. Martin.
And finally, he grabbed my forearm and he said, for the love of God, call me Malachi.
You're making me feel old.
And that was the ionic beginning.
That was the icebreaker, yeah.
Yes, it was.
Remarkable, man.
You know, I never got round to doing an interview.
I was very early in doing all of this stuff.
And just at the point when I wanted to put in that bid and try to get him on my show, he died.
He left us.
But, God, what a legacy this man left us in terms of the stuff that he went through.
I don't even know whether we can begin in the hour that we've got to encapsulate this, but we'll try.
When you talk to a man like that, and I just want to hover around this initial meeting in the restaurant first, because I don't know what I'd have said to him, right?
If I'd met him, you know, even if I'd been prepared by hearing him or reading his stuff, I'm not sure how I'd have gone in.
When you start a conversation with somebody like that, what do you say?
I mean, you can't just say, well, tell me about your work, can you?
That's true to a degree, except he was a rather effusive, garrulous person.
So he, I believe from what I remember, he wanted to know a little bit about everyone that he was having dinner with.
And of course, all I said was that, you know, I Work in a confidential capacity for the United States government.
That's how, you know, that's how it started out.
Is that all you said?
Because I think your work was much more than just confidential capacity.
Well, yes, but I wanted to focus on that.
It's not just that.
I didn't want to draw attention to myself at that dinner because there were, like I said, a number of seminarians there for the Archdiocese of New York.
So, you know, that's the way I just described it.
It just passed because after that, it was on to the next person, then on to the next person, and so on and so forth.
And then as the, we like to call them the adult beverages arrived, as well as the hors d'oeuvres and meal starters, people just began peppering him with questions because it was a younger crowd and he looked around the table and he said, well, lads, what's on your minds tonight?
What do you want to hear this poor old priest talk about?
And that's how it started.
And when it started, where did he begin?
I think when it started, people started off immediately asking him questions.
And interestingly enough, it was not about exorcism.
It was about, I believe one of the seminarians asked him, is it true that you read and you know the contents of the third secret of Fatima?
And he acknowledged that yes, he did.
Now that's interesting, isn't it?
Because he had, I think he'd worked at the Vatican, and the word is that the third secret of Fatima is something terrible that the Vatican doesn't want you to know and keeps it under lock and key there.
These were the secrets, the prophecies that were given to three young Portuguese shepherds back in 1917.
I think they made a movie out of it.
But the third one, two of them we know, the third one was kept under wraps and the Vatican apparently has it.
And you say that Malachi Martin told you he knows what it is.
Correct.
The Vatican apparently, and I use that word deliberately, the Vatican apparently released what the Third Secret was.
But interestingly enough, they released their version of the Third Secret the year after Malachi Martin passed away.
Because I believe he was one of the last people who read the original secret, who was still alive, and would have contradicted any narrative coming out of the Vatican at the time.
And I think they knew that.
So they waited for him to die so that they could put out what you say might be a sanitized version of what actually Malachi Martin knew was there.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
Because what the Vatican, the only words we know for certain that the Virgin Mary said was regarding the Third Secret was, in Portugal, the dogma of the faith will always be preserved, followed by an ellipsis, dot, dot, dot.
And that's all we knew.
Yet when the Vatican released their interpretation of the Third Secret into the year 2000, there was no reference to that.
There was no reference to anything further said by the Virgin Mary at Fatima.
They just released a description of a vision that Sister Lucia said she was supposedly granted.
And it just doesn't make sense that if the Virgin started off with a sentence, that the Vatican would completely overlook any further words she had to say and say, all right, here's the rest of what happened, and here's our interpretation.
You can all go away now.
It just doesn't make sense.
What do you think Malachi Martin knew about that?
Well, he did tell me that he was present in 1960.
The Virgin told Sister Lucia that the secret was to be read by the Pope of 1960 and made public to the world.
When Pope John XXIII read that letter, Malachy's boss, Augustine Cardinal Bea, the German Jesuit, was present in the room.
And Malachy said he was asked to wait in a small antechamber, which he did.
He said he knew that various very important cardinals and archbishops had gone into the papal apartments of Pope John XXIII.
He said they were in there for about an hour or so, maybe a little bit more.
Malachi said that there was shouting and some yelling, which apparently I wouldn't expect to come out of the papal apartments.
And he said that Cardinal Bea came storming out after a while and he said, let's go in German.
And they got into his car down in St. Peter's Square.
And Malachi said that he was sworn to what's called the pontifical secret, meaning you take an oath that unless the Pope himself releases you from your obligation to maintain secrecy, you can never speak of whatever the subject is.
And Malachi said he agreed to that.
And he was handed a sheet of paper with a German translation in it.
And he said that Cardinal Bea just made the comment about the men up in the papal, the clerics up in the papal apartments.
He said those fools have just condemned millions upon millions of people to the most horrible fate possible.
And we can Never know, can we, what that might be until that fate arrives.
Yes and no.
And I realize we're digressing a little bit here, but in 1980, before the assassination attempt on his life, Pope John Paul II was asked by a group of pilgrims in Fulda, Germany.
And this was when the time when Germany was a flashpoint of the Cold War, especially the town of Fulda, in which the gap between the mountains there, the Fulda gap, the Soviet tank armies were expected to invade the West.
And the Pope appeared there, and one of the pilgrims asked him, they said, Your Holiness, why was the third secret of Fatima never revealed, as Our Lady requested in 1960?
And he responded that my predecessors in the Sea of Peter have diplomatically preferred to withhold the publication of the message in order not to encourage the worldwide power of communism to undertake certain moves against which the West will have no defense.
And then he went on to say, if there does exist such a message in which it is said that there will be great earthquakes and floods and tidal waves and that nations will disappear from the face of the earth,
if you're only interested in the contents of that message purely for sensationalism, because you're convinced nothing can be done about it, is there any point in really wanting to publish it in the first place?
I can completely see the sense in that.
Yes, but he also kind of said the quiet part out loud when he said, well, if there is such a message that, because no one said to him, Holiness, what does it say about tidal waves and earthquakes and great floods and millions upon millions of people dying from one moment to the next?
No one asked him any of that.
He brought it up himself.
Yes, that is interesting.
Yes.
If you were having a sort of police interview, that would be pretty compelling evidence.
You bring it up before it's brought up by those who might question you.
You know, they may not have been going to ask you that, but you mentioned it anyway.
Very good point.
The life and times of Father Malachi Martin, we're going to talk about the exorcisms next.
If you are of a squeamish nature, then you might want to go make a cup of tea during the next part.
Back to the guest, Robert A. Morrow Jr.
We're talking about the mysterious and rather amazing Father Malachi Martin.
Was he an outcast from the church?
No.
Was he a rebel?
No.
He was a Roman Catholic.
I don't know what your faith background is.
I presume it may be Church of England.
It's both, actually.
I'm from Liverpool, and my mother's side was Catholic, and my father's side Protestant.
So I'm a Bible.
Okay, very good.
Well, he was a traditionalist.
You said your father's side was Catholic or your mother's side?
Your mother's side?
Your mother's side.
Okay.
Father Malachi was a traditionalist in the way that he worshipped and believed the way your mother's grandparents and their parents and parents before them would have believed.
Right.
So he believed in the old-style mass and that kind of thing, the Tridentine.
That's Craig.
The Tridentine Mass, he said it every day.
There were times when I was his assistant, his altar server, if you would.
He was not a rebel.
You know, he did leave the Jesuit order.
He got permission from Pope Paul VI in the early 1960s because during the midst of the Second Vatican Council, he saw that the Jesuit order was taking a hard turn to the left in terms of religious views, political views, etc.
Some people would say becoming more progressive.
And he said, this is not what I signed up for.
And he went to Pope Paul VI, and Paul VI gave him a document called a rescript that released him from his vow of obedience, which meant that he didn't have to be a part of the Jesuit order anymore.
He was released from his vow of poverty so he could make a living as a secular priest because he would no longer have the Jesuits to support him.
And he maintained his vow of chastity until his death.
So he was an old-fashioned, good, traditional priest.
That's correct.
How did he get involved in tussling with what he would call Satan, the devil, evil?
It started over in the Middle East in either the late 1950s, early 1960s.
He was called in to fill in for an assistant priest at an exorcism where the assistant priest had either had a heart attack or fallen ill, could no longer continue.
And he was called on to assist.
And he said, once you're kind of in it, then you get a reputation for, even if it's one or two, you get a reputation for, oh, Father so-and-so, he knows about this.
Call on him.
And that's how he got his start.
And you have to remember, after the reforms of the Second Vatican Council, a lot of people would argue that regarding church dogma, beliefs, devotions, practices, et cetera, the baby was thrown out with the bathwater.
And one of those things was belief in the devil.
That was said to be, evil was now said to be in the form of wicked economic or social structures, poverty, homelessness, racism.
There was no longer a personal entity of evil directly opposed to God, known as Lucifer or the prince, as they call him.
And Malachi said that, you know, that was a great mistake.
So he thought that by abandoning talk and commitment to those things, the church was missing out and maybe misleading people in some way.
In essence, yes, because when people are possessed, but you go to your parish priest or the priest goes to the bishop and says, that's a bunch of nonsense.
They really need to talk to a psychiatrist or psychologist.
You know, don't waste my time with this.
And the person is actually possessed, then Malachi said that when you go to the people who are supposed to rescue you from this situation and they end up laughing at you instead, he said, then in effect, you know, the church, those churchmen are condemning that person to the worst fate possible.
So was he like an additional emergency service if somebody, and they had to do a lot to convince Malachi Martin that, you know, they might be possessed, but if somebody felt they were possessed, and many people believe mistakenly, deludedly that they are, and some people he believed were, they felt that they could go to him and he would help, he would understand.
He would understand, but he still maintained the typical standards of examination for possession, which includes batteries of tests by competent, qualified medical professionals.
For approving psychiatrists.
That's correct.
So he was very keen, and I heard him talk a number of times with Addel at length, on the filtering process.
When somebody comes forward and says, I think I'm being motivated by evil, the devil.
He talked in great detail about the process of giving them psychiatric checks, giving them all sorts of checks, and it would only be as the last resort almost that they would go to the exorcism because the exorcism is not like some light entertainment thing that you might see on TV.
The way that he described this, it's a real battle.
It's like wrestling, but to the nth degree.
Not only that, but Malachi said that even when the priest, the exorcist, is successful in freeing the possessed person, that a little part of the exorcist's soul, he said, something leaves you that you will never get back.
So there is risk for the practitioner.
Yes, without a doubt.
And it's something in the tales that I heard him tell, you don't do this alone.
It's two things.
You can't do it on your own.
And once you start it, as he said in that audio clip we heard, once you start, there's no going back.
That's right.
You're engaged until the end.
And one thing I did want to point out was that in your introduction, you made mention of the fact that he was the inspiration for the archaeologist priest.
According to an online biography, he believed it said that he was the inspiration.
No.
You don't think so.
No, that's not true.
I've read the book by William Peter Blatty that the original movie was made of.
And Malachy was also very clear that the movie The Exorcist that came out in the early 1970s, he would always refer to it as, you know, a lot of green goop and heads spinning around.
He says that was typical Hollywood Frankenstein Dracula scare the teenagers around the campfire horror movie.
He says the real thing is much more lethal than that, and it doesn't involve theatrics.
And sometimes it involves visceral, physical force.
Yes, without a doubt.
Sometimes those are the ones he referred to as either dirty exorcisms or hammering tongues.
He believed that there was a force of evil, something pent up that could take over people.
Did he ever define?
He called it Lucifer.
Right.
He talked a lot about Lucifer.
Did he ever define to you Lucifer, in his view?
Yes.
And it was what any Catholic priest prior to the 1960s would have told you.
He was an archangel, and he said that's why a human on their own cannot go up against Lucifer, because he has what is called preternatural intelligence.
He does not have supernatural intelligence.
Supernatural only refers to that phenomena which is manifested or originates with God alone.
There's three levels.
There's the natural level you and I exist on.
There is the supernatural that God, the angels, and the saints exist on.
And then there is a middle level called the preternatural.
And he said, that's where Lucifer, you know, has his powers.
And that's the realm where he dwells.
And in this battle between good and evil, when good, in the presence of Malachi Martin and whoever's helping him, engages in the fight, is it always inevitable that good, as we've been taught through whatever religion we might practice, that good always comes through?
You'd like to think that most of the time it does, but there were rare occasions where either due to not the exorcist, not Father Martin, but through some sort of deficiency on the part of the person who was possessed, usually medical, they just didn't make it.
For example, if they suffered a massive stroke or heart attack during the exorcism and died, well, that was in no way the fault of the exorcist, but it still would put a cap of finality on the exorcism.
Did that happen?
Did people die?
He only referred to that with me obliquely.
There were things that I knew not to ask about.
I do know that if you've ever read the book Hostage to the Devil, it's bookended by the story of an exorcism that took place in China during the Japanese rape of the city of Nanjing or Nanking, the story of an exorcist called Michael Strong, who was attempting to perform an exorcism.
And the gentleman that he was trying to exorcise deliberately locked himself inside of a burning charnel house and burned to death.
And that failed exorcism, the priest paid, and anyone can read the book, the priest paid a very heavy price for the rest of his life.
And it was only in his dying moments that he received relief from our Lord.
In those cases, and there were, I don't think you probably know how many exorcisms he took part in, in general, and it's very hard to generalize something that is so specific to the individual, but what did he tell you?
What did he know of the people who went through that process, came out supposedly cleansed?
Did they go on to be normal citizens, not troubled by anything anymore?
Was everything okay for most of them beyond that?
Correct.
99% of the time, most of those people went on to leave very normal.
I don't want to say mundane and boring, but in essence, that's the truth.
They just went on to live normal lives, except they were no longer afflicted by this arguably pardon the pun hellish phenomenon.
And how did they acquire it?
That's the thing, isn't it?
I mean, do you meet somebody who's a source of evil?
Do you go to a place that might be cursed in some way?
How do you take it on board?
Malachi said that there were two reasons behind it.
Number one, and I know this is not going to satisfy you, but he said, number one, we don't know why some people fall victim.
He says there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the persons who become possessed.
But he said there were gateway practices or devices that served to enable people to become possessed.
And that was either engaging in formal occult practices or one that's quite popular is using a Ouija board in an attempt to communicate with the dead.
You know, it's a terrifying and chilling thing to talk about.
I mean it's beyond most people's ken, comprehension, whatever you want to call it.
Why did he, why did my, this is, Sure.
Why did he want to do this work?
I don't think it's a question of so much of why.
It's more a matter that every true Catholic priest serves in what they call in Latin the phrases alter Christus as another Christ.
So it's not something he wanted to do, but if the Lord called him to do it, he certainly was not going to say no.
He would not shirk from that.
So it's almost a version of that phrase you hear on movies.
It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it.
Correct.
And don't forget that the person who founded the Jesuits was Saint Ignatius of Loyola.
And what was he before he founded the Jesuits?
He was a combat soldier.
Right.
So that is the notion of combat.
Correct.
Quick question.
Spiritual combat, sure.
Quick question before we take those commercials.
This is coming from somebody.
It says, do the subjects remember the exorcism, those who are exorcised?
Do they remember it, or are there gaps in their recall of what happened?
Most of the time, they never remember it.
Most of the time, they never remember it.
Boy.
With Robert A. Morrow, who knew him and worked with him on a documentary that I should have mentioned before now that aired first in 2016, this was Hostage to the Devil, the same title as the book.
Talk to me about the documentary and your story with it, would you?
Sure.
Well, actually, I was contacted by people, as they say, from your side of the pond, a great group of people from a film company up in, I believe, Northern Ireland called Causeway Pictures.
So a nod, shout out to them.
And I participated with them in the motion picture.
And it's not a horror picture by any means.
It's a biographic documentary about Father Martin that just happens to go by the same title as the book he wrote about exorcism, Hostage to the Devil.
We wrapped it up in 2016.
It had a five-year run on Netflix, and then it's now available on YouTube under that title.
So people can easily see it for a nominal rental fee.
And it was not without its risks because you always hear that things happen to people associated with these kinds of movies.
I myself was sitting at a red light listening to a New York Yankees game.
My vehicle was stopped and a woman came up behind me at about 50 miles an hour, 5-0, and she rammed my vehicle.
Oh, my God.
Sent me to the hospital.
I still suffer paralytic motor control issues on the right-hand side of my body.
And I'm blind in my right eye, obviously.
Good lord.
Do you believe there's a connection?
Oh, without a doubt.
It was the first day of filming that that happened.
And I asked my pastor about it a week later.
And he said, the adversary is warning you to back off and just stop.
And the adversary being.
As you folks like to say, bollocks to that.
The adversary being the devil.
The devil.
Yes, Lucifer.
He didn't want exposure of his activities.
He operates best in the shadows.
So you will have a permanent reminder of that work.
Yes.
Yes.
It's online.
It's viewable worldwide.
I'm also engaged in the process of trying to raise funds to have a book professionally published about Father Martin because I knew many, many things that would clear the air about controversies about Father Martin.
It's interesting.
The lies only begin once a person is dead and then they multiply.
So I'm trying to, you know, going to be trying to write a book about it because I'm literally the last person alive who knew him on a very close day-to-day, week-to-week, work-keek basis for almost 10 total years.
Will the book address the subject of how he died?
He fell down the stairs, didn't he?
No, he did not.
And the book will address that.
Really?
Correct.
And the question.
Sorry, you were saying.
No, if I may be so bold, because I gave this information to your producer.
There is a give, send, go campaign dedicated to raising funds for all of the professional production work that goes into a book.
I'm not going to have something just quickly churned out and thrown up on Amazon because Father Malik, he deserves to-flight treatment.
Right.
Okay, so is there a link that we can cite here?
Is there something that we can direct people?
I'm quite happy to do that.
Oh, thank you.
That's quite kind.
Well, it's www and all one word.
Give, send, go.
I believe forward slash Malachi underscore Martin underscore book.
I believe I sent that to your producer or whoever had contacted.
Right, well, I'm sure he's going to write it down for me now, and I'll give it out at the end of this.
Okay, I'm very happy to.
And if you are able to get down to this, and as you say, you want to do a proper job, that's not a slow process.
When would you expect that book to be out?
If I'm successful with this, with the fundraising, we're probably looking at about 18 to 24 months out.
I mean, as you can obviously see, I was right-handed, but I'm now a little bit constricted.
I assume you're right-handed as well.
Yes.
Well, imagine if someone told you, okay, for today only, you're only allowed to use your computer mouse with your left hand.
What would your day be?
What would your day be like?
Well, I've got one here, and that takes some learning, I would think.
That takes some learning.
As well as typing one-handed.
Well, I wish I had already.
You'll need, as you say, you'll need not only editorial and other legwork assistance, you'll need assistance.
Well, exactly.
Exactly.
Because I've already gotten one novel to my credit, and that took over three years.
In fact, it's a British novel.
And what is it?
Just out of interest?
The title of the book, when it's released next year, it's a Christmas book.
It's entitled Ebenezer Scrooge and the Ghost of Christmas Love.
It's the only published ever, the only published follow-on to the story of Ebenezer Scrooge after the events portrayed in the motion picture, A Christmas Carol.
I love the story, the sound of that story.
Absolutely, I do.
I'll send you a copy.
I would love to receive it.
Taking you back to Malachi Martin and the subject of his death, when I heard he died, I thought, here is a man who doesn't just have a standard domestic accident.
I know he was fairly frail.
Everybody who gets older is a little frail.
But he doesn't just have a standard domestic accident and then exit this plane.
Can you give me an idea of what you will be saying in the book happened to him?
Sure.
In broad strokes, he fell inside his apartment.
And when he fell, and I'm not going, I'll speak to the causality of that in the book, but when he fell, he struck his head on a sharp piece of furniture, and that caused a cerebral hemorrhage.
He was taken to the hospital, and he slipped into a coma that he never came out of.
I was there at his deathbed.
Was he able to...
No, the last time I saw him, he was unconscious with all sorts of complex machines and wires hooked up to him that were beeping and buzzing, and his eyes were closed.
And, you know, I became quite emotional.
I mean, he was a combination best friend in the world, spiritual director, and surrogate grandfather, all rolled up into one.
Do you believe that the forces with which he battled finally got the better of him?
Yes and no.
They caused his death.
However, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he went to our Lord.
Absolutely no doubt in my mind.
As certain as I can say that the sun will rise after the night tonight.
Which would be the ultimate aim of anybody who did what he did and the ultimate aim of most of us.
Okay.
Exactly.
Well, it's a fascinating story about a fascinating man.
I don't know whether there's time to go into this.
We only have minutes, sadly.
And, you know, you yourself said I know to my Producer that we needed more time, we did.
But, you know, this is what we got.
I remember as a very young person going on holiday with my mum and dad to Kent, and I was always up before everybody, and I was always the one who took news to them.
And my mother, to her dying day, would always kind of smile when she remembered me going into the bedroom in that place we stayed in in Kent and opening the door and announcing the words in the biggest voice that I could muster then, the Pope is dead.
That was Pope John Paul I, who died 33 days, I think it was, into his papacy in 1978.
That's what then happened.
Did Malachi Martin have a view on that?
Because a lot of people have suggested that his exit may well have been hastened somewhat, more than somewhat.
No, I'll tell you straight up, Malachi thought he was assassinated.
And is that going in the book?
Yes.
Is anybody assassinated by forces associated with, at that time, it would have been the communist intelligence services from the Eastern Bloc?
Boy.
I wonder why.
Wait for the book.
And, you know, you mentioned at the beginning your own CIA connection, and sadly, we haven't got time to talk about that.
I don't even know whether you would want to talk about that, but you clearly have a bit of a past and background yourself.
That's correct.
Is that an I don't want to talk about that?
Or I'll give you the standard disclaimer.
If you were to ask me about something specific, I would say I have no such knowledge of that topic.
And if I did, I would not be inclined to discuss it.
Boy.
How long were you involved with the agency?
Almost 15 years.
Okay.
Well, my mind is throwing up all kinds of instances, none of which I think I can ask you about.
It's been an absolute, I don't know whether pleasure fits here, but for me, professionally, it's been a pleasure to speak with you.
I am so pleased that you made time for us.
The pleasure was mine.
Thank you.
The book project, what will you call it?
Have you thought?
Yes.
The working title is Malachi Martin, A Holy Priest Against the Approaching Scream of the Ancient Beast.
My grateful thanks to Robert A. Morrow for being part of my show and the remarkable story of Father Malachi Martin.
I wonder if there's anybody else like that around today?
Or have we lost people like that now?
I wonder.
I would be keen to know.
Maybe you do.
You can always email me through my website, theunexplained.tv.
Follow the email link and you can send me a message from there.
And as always, if your message requires a response, please put reply required or something to that effect in the subject line.
But I do read all of your emails as they come in.
Boy, it's hot.
I've got a bottle of sparkling water here that was cold when I started recording this and is now warm.
Can you hear that?
That's the air releasing itself, the gas bubbles.
I'm just going to have a drink of this and a long sit down.
More great guests in the pipeline here.
Please stay with the unexplained.
My name is Howard Hughes.
Please stay safe.
Please stay calm.
Please stay cool.
And please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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