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Aug. 12, 2023 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:25:47
Edition 747 - Tony Healy
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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Well, the British summer grinds on, but I'm not going to say a word about it.
Why?
Because I've probably said far too much about it already.
I hope everything is okay with you.
Thank you for the emails.
Please keep those coming.
You can connect with me through my website, theunexplained.tv, or you can connect with me on my Facebook page, the official Facebook page of The Unexplained with Howard Hughes.
And if you sent a donation to the online show recently, thank you very, very much.
You know who you are and you know how gratefully received that is.
You can do that via my website, theunexplained.tv.
And thank you to Adam, my webmaster, for keeping the shows coming out to you and for maintaining and overseeing that website for me for all of these years.
Thank you, Adam.
Okay, now what have I got to say now?
I'll tell you what I've got to say.
I've got to take what might turn out to be one or two podcasts off this month of August for the simple reason that if you followed my story that's unfolded here like a tableau of my life from 2006, you know that a few months ago I had a fire here in my flat, my apartment, as you would call it in the United States and other places.
And I'm still dealing with the consequences of that because time I never have.
So I hope you understand that.
Let's get to the guest on this edition.
I promised you some while ago when we spoke with Tony Healy in Australia, the Yaoi expert, that I would talk in more detail about his amazing book, The Yaoi File, that he's put together with Paul Cropper.
It tells the story of yaoi sightings and yaoi accounts going all the way back to 1788 or thereabouts, right up to the present day.
There are close on 300 accounts in the book.
I've read it and I loved it and thoroughly recommend this book, The Yaoi File.
So that's what we're going to do on this edition.
Once again, thank you very much for bearing with me for all of these years and for helping me to keep it going.
Let's get to the guest in Canberra, Australia now.
10-hour time difference between me and Tony Healy.
So I'm starting to record this at 9 o'clock in the morning.
And for Tony, that is 6 p.m. in Canberra.
So we're just about to have our day and they've had theirs already.
Amazing place this world is.
All right, let's make that crossing now then.
Digital Connections Allowing.
Tony Healy, thank you very much for coming again on my show.
Well, thank you for having me back, Cowie.
Pleasure.
Well, listen, it's always a fascinating subject to talk about, Tony.
And, you know, I guess the first thing to ask you, we've talked before about this, is why do you think we hear so many stories, and I think I know part of the answer to this, but why do you think we hear so many stories about Sasquatch and Bigfoot in North America and maybe, I don't know, the abominable snowman in China or on the India border?
But we hear, in my part of the world, so few stories, so few tales of yaoi.
Yeah, well, I guess we're down here at the ass end of the world, you know.
There's only 26 million people here, so we don't generate too much news, I suppose.
Yeah, well, I don't know.
I mean, the Yowie phenomenon dates back just as far as the North American Sasquatch phenomenon does.
You know, we have reports starting in the very early 1800s, 1810, 1820, around there.
But yeah, I guess it just took a long while for these stories to trickle out.
Very few non-Aborigines in Australia knew anything about the yaoi until really the mid-1970s.
And some don't know, still don't know what the heck you're talking about when you mention the yowie.
So yeah, I guess we just can't publicise ourselves quite as easily as the North Americans.
And of course, the abominable snowman practically sold himself, didn't he?
I mean, with a moniker like that, the abominable snowman of Nepal, that's a headline grabber.
And with people like Sir Edmund Hillary and Lord Hunt and luminaries like that talking about the Yeti back in the 1950s, I suppose it just grabbed the headlines way back then.
I didn't know that.
New Zealander Sir Edmund Hillary of Kosu conquered the summit of Everest back in the 1950s.
Did he have an encounter?
I missed that.
No, no, he didn't.
He took part in, he was the joint leader of an expedition to try and suss out whether the Yeti was fact or fiction in the very late 1950s.
He was sceptical, I think.
Desmond Doig was the Britisher.
He was the co-leader.
Doig was also rather cautiously skeptical in those days, but he told me in later years that he'd done a 180 on that and he believed the Yeti really existed.
That was when I was talking to him was 1980.
So, yeah, Hillary pretty well debunked the Yeti legend to his satisfaction.
I think he was a naturally skeptical sort of a guy.
But Lord Hunt, you know, who was the leader of the 1953 Everest expedition, the expedition in which Sherpa Tanzing and Hillary climbed Mount Everest,
Lord Hunt, or Captain John Hunt as he was then, he was always very, very keen on the Yeti legend and said that he had heard Yeti howls and screams.
And he'd interviewed many, many Sherpas and other tribesmen who'd seen them.
And in 1978, the year Before I got there, he and his wife had gone on a very adventurous trek, revisiting some of the old sites that the Everest expeditioners had used in the 50s.
And they found Yeti tracks then in 1977.
He was adamant that they were bipedal tracks.
And so, yeah, and when I was in the Himalayas, I talked to, well, only one European, Don Willans, a mountaineer who had seen a Yeti.
And about how many, three, one, two, three, about four chirpers who had encountered them.
But I also talked to numerous Europeans who had found bipedal tracks in the most remote areas.
And so, yeah, I think the Yeti is as real, well put it this way, it's as real as the Sasquatch and the Yaoi.
The big question is, what level of reality do all of these Hariat men have?
Because they seem to be international and primeval, don't they?
There is something otherworldly about them.
And yet, they seem to be all over the world.
They seem to be equally as elusive wherever they are.
But they seem to be related.
And we will get onto the contents of the book in just a minute or two.
But, you know, that seems to be a great fascination that they seem to be connected because the sorts of sightings that people have and the kinds of behaviors they report worldwide are very similar.
Yes, yes, quite so, Howie.
Yeah, it is strange.
And that's one reason why my colleague Paul Thropper and myself are very hesitant to say, well, the yaoi must be flesh and blood or the Sasquatch just must be flesh and blood, because as you say, they crop up in many, many different countries in virtually every continent except Antarctica.
And yes, they behave in the same ways.
Particularly with the Sasquatch and the yowie, their morphology, you know, their general build, their whole description is just about identical.
And their behavior is identical.
Everything about them, the way they throw rocks at people, but always just miss.
The way their eyes sometimes glow at night as if lit from within, which is very weird, a high strangeness element.
And the stench that they emit, apparently at will, this god-awful, mind-numbingly foul stench that yowis and Sasquatches can emit.
Well, that's interesting, isn't it?
That almost sounds like there's some creatures that we know of that can spree you with foul-smelling stuff or whatever to basically to get rid of you, to scare you off.
Well, yeah, that could be it.
I mean, that's the theory that people put forward, people who choose to believe that the yowies and Sasquatches are real flesh and blood animals.
They say, well, they must be like skunks.
They must have that way of turning on some sort of gland that fills the air with foulness, and then they make their escape.
That would be right.
And that goes in with a lot of their raison d'être, their reason for being, but they don't seem to be aggressive other than when they appear threatening, when they want people away from their offspring or their territory.
They don't seem to be a direct threat to us.
They want us to keep away, it seems.
Yes, yes.
Well, certainly if they wanted to damage human beings, they could have killed hundreds of thousands of us by now.
Yeah, they usually, I mean, the usual Sasquatch or yowie modus operandi is to sort of just be glimpsed or spotted or walk across the road or walk across a field in the middle distance and then notice that they've been seen and then beat a hasty retreat.
That pretty well covers 80% of Yowie and Sasquatch sightings.
They're there, they're seen fairly briefly, usually for less than, say, 30 seconds, and then they take off.
But other times, yes, they do seem aggressive, whether it's bluff or whether they're just having fun and messing with our heads, but they do stalk people.
Like a very common scenario is for people to be out in the deep bush, feel something is watching them, get this terrible feeling of being watched.
Then they might smell the aroma of, you know, like a herd of dead elephants, something really foul.
Then they turn around and retreat.
And the yowie or the Sasquatch just paces them a little off to the side and behind them.
Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch, big footsteps.
And sometimes they don't see the creature.
They just hear the scrub breaking and the big footprints, big footsteps.
Other times they do turn around and they see these damn things.
And often, in the case of the yowie more so than the Sasquatch, perhaps, people report That the yowies have this really, really threatening, angry look on their face that has been mentioned in Canada and the States, but not so much.
Now, I don't know why Australian hairy admin should be frankier than the North American variety, but in all other respects, they're pretty well identical, you might say.
Okay, let's get into the book.
You'd already written a book that is, I mean, we spoke about it some years ago, that is pretty well known internationally about this.
But this is a deep dive into hundreds of cases.
I think you've got something like 300 or thereabouts cases in this, going all the way back, as you say, into deep history, which will surprise a lot of people because I think a lot of people think that this is a phenomenon of the last 100 years, 150 years, but actually it goes all the way back to the colonial era in Australia.
Why did you choose to do this new book that chronicles these cases in this way?
Well, we sort of just got drawn into it, actually.
The other book that you mentioned, the first book on the yaoi phenomenon, is just called The Yaoi.
And Paul Cropper and I wrote that in 2006.
And in those days, we thought, okay, this will be our last word on the yaoi phenomenon.
We'll put everything we know, every yowie encounter we've ever heard of, and all the Aboriginal law that we have ever heard of, into this book, the yaoi, and draw a line under it and say, well, we don't want to write anything more about the yaoi.
What triggered it, I think, was, well, we had about 300 reports that we could put in the book, and we were finding it increasingly difficult to keep abreast of developments in the yowie field in Australia because a lot more people were becoming involved, a lot more researchers.
And our friend Dean Harrison had started the first website devoted to the yaoi mystery.
He'd actually started that in about 1998.
But by 2006, the reports were just pouring into Dean's website.
And we were finding it hard to keep abreast of the whole thing.
So we thought, okay, let's just get this down, you know, just get it all down as best we can.
And after laboring, I think we started writing that book in about 2001, finally got it finished in 2006.
And we were very, very happy with it.
And as I said, we were saying, okay, that's it, Benito, the Musica, no more yaoi writing for us.
We intended to sort of keep our foot in the game a little bit.
And we helped Dean contact and interview a lot of witnesses after 2006.
And Paul Cropper continued his amazing research, his historical research, and continued to dig up dozens of colonial era and early modern era reports.
And, you know, we thought of the colonial era reports particularly as cryptozoological gold, you know, because those early reports were uncontaminated by any television shows about Yetis or Yaois or anything like that, Yetis or Bigfoot or anything like that.
Totally uncontaminated.
It's just what the pioneers said they saw, you know.
And so I don't know who suggested it, but at some stage about six years ago, one of us said, oh, we really shouldn't let these new, newly discovered colonial era reports get lost and scattered again.
So we should put them in a little case book, just a case book, no commentary, just case one, two, three, four, five, six.
And we thought, yeah, this will be easy.
No worries.
We'll get that done.
Anyway, time dragged on and we both got distracted with various other projects.
And when we started writing the thing and compiling these reports, we thought, oh, it'd be criminal not to make some commentary, link some commentary to many of these cases,
just to point out various similarities, say, with some of the colonial era reports, similarities with colonial era reports and modern reports, and to point out geographical patterns, you know, areas where Yauri reports had come to light repeatedly over the course of 150, 160 years, you know.
So we started making this linking commentary and all dug up many photographs of some of the pioneers, the witnesses, the early witnesses that we thought, well, we've got to have, got to put those illustrations in.
And anyway, the book grew and grew.
It's still basically a case book that's intended to be a companion volume to the Yaoi, the 2006 book.
So as you mentioned, there's nearly 300 reports in this book and 300 in the Yaoi.
So it's a case book.
It's more or less the raw material that Yaoi researchers work with.
And we've tried to document, Obviously, every case as best we can.
So anyway, we're happy with it.
What do you reckon about the cover?
Kind of eye-grabbing.
I love it.
As we talked about on TV, it's the eyes that get you.
But that makes the point that you made earlier in this conversation and we've spoken about before, that the eyes of these creatures appear to be almost like burning coals in the night.
And that is something that is pretty consistent.
Yes, yes, it's weird.
I mean, people who like to think of yowis and Sasquatches as just flesh and blood creatures, very elusive flesh and blood creatures, have to really dig deep to come up with an explanation for eyes that glow brightly without any torchlight to reflect.
People say, well, it was like the thing had batteries in its head.
The eyes were just glowing, usually red, sometimes yellow, sometimes green, but usually red and sometimes white too.
So that is, to my mind, a high strangeness element.
Very strange.
And it's very much part of the cover artwork.
Yeah, yeah.
And Barry Olive, who did the cover, he also did the cover of our very first book, Out of the Shadows, Mystery Animals of Australia.
And we've stayed in touch.
And yeah, he was good enough to do that one for us.
But yeah, in this new book, we've included every high strangeness case for many, many high strangeness cases,
because the book structured the first hundred reports date from about 1810 through to 1900, which was the end of the colonial era.
The second section of the book is from 1901 to 1975, the era we call the early modern era.
And the modern era, the third section is the modern era from 1975 to the present.
We chose 1975 because that's roughly when the yaoi phenomenon started to be mentioned in the Australian press, in the modern Australian press.
It had been mentioned quite frequently way back in the colonial era, but then there was a big hiatus for decades, really.
But so the third part of the book, the early modern era, we have another 100 reports.
Then in the modern era, we just chose 71 very representative modern era cases that we had investigated personally, or our friend Dean Harrison did, or our friend Sarah down in Victoria.
So in these modern era reports, it's quite noticeable that there are high strangeness elements, as I keep saying, the glowing eyes, but also other things that I'd heard when I was over in North America as well.
People who claim, who say it was like the thing mesmerized me.
It was like I was hypnotized.
I couldn't.
Or indeed, there is one report, and when we talk about the newer cases, we'll get to that report.
We're going to start with the older cases first.
But one person said, a woman, she said, I had the feeling that I was very privileged, that it was there for me.
You know, that it appeared, that it appeared, you know, it wasn't random.
It was something that might have been almost psychic in the way that it worked.
But we'll talk about that when we get to those cases.
Now, what I've done, you've numbered every single case.
And in my notes, I've got nine A4 pages of notes.
I'll never get through all of them in this, but we're going to do our very best.
In my nine pages of notes here, you've numbered the cases, but I only started picking up on the numbers after the very oldest cases.
So the first six or so, I think, don't have the case numbers.
I hope you can work from that, but then I've got the case numbers so you can find them in the book.
No worries, Matt.
Yeah, I should be able to.
Okay, well, let's start with the Botany Bay Wildman.
Now, this...
It says, there have been various reports concerning this most surprising wild man or huge savage giant that was brought from Botany Bay to England.
Thousands have seen him in Plymouth, where he was landed alive and in good health.
That's amazing.
This surprising, monstrous giant was taken by a crew of English sailors.
When they went on shore to furnish themselves with fresh water at Botany Bay, they beheld at a distance three of the most surprising, tallest, and biggest looking naked men that have been seen in memory of this age, which caused them to board the ship for the safety of their lives.
They ran away.
That's a theme that we'll come back to.
The casks of water and a quantity of good old rum apparently were left behind.
Now, this is a very early account, and this creature apparently was brought back here.
Well, that's what the allegedly.
That's how the story goes.
But you'll notice that at the top of the opening lines we have for that case is, excuse me, unlike most items in this collection, this one requires quite a bit of explanatory text.
It is an obvious hoax, but we've included it for two reasons.
Firstly, because it is the earliest written reference to something resembling the hairy giants of Indigenous legend.
And secondly, out of fairness to skeptic Who, noting its similarity to ancient European wild man traditions, might like to suggest such traditions influenced British settlers' interpretations of indigenous tales.
So, yeah, I mean, it's a nice story, but it is, unfortunately, it's just bogus.
It has to be.
And in the history, just briefly, in the whole history of Yaoi, are there many hoaxes?
You know, I get people trying to tell me that they've encountered Bigfoot and that sort of thing.
And, you know, I always have to try and check them out as best I can.
But do you think that this is hoax territory?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yes.
There were all stories in the colonial era, pretty obvious ones, you know, real stretches, you know, that were highly exaggerated.
And we fool ourselves or we tell ourselves that we can spot a hoax.
There are several in the modern era too, which there's a couple of recent ones that we've debunked.
But I maintain, and you can call me gullible if you like, but with all the witnesses I've investigated, both Sasquatch and Yeti witnesses and Yaoi witnesses, I would bet good money that 90% of them were telling the absolute truth.
Others may have been mistaken and the small number might have been fantasy-prone people.
Others might have been rather mischievous hoaxes.
Okay.
So we stopped.
This particular one is, I mean, it obviously couldn't have happened.
You know, this gigantic creature could not have arrived.
All right.
Now, we have to say that yaoi is very much a feature of native Australian culture and recollection.
And, you know, a lot of these early reports are very much tied to the Aboriginal culture.
1820s, you say, although it is difficult to pinpoint the earliest actual sighting report by a non-Aboriginal, it's certain that Europeans became aware of Aboriginal Yaoi law in the first couple of decades of the 19th century, if not earlier.
You say Captain Peter Cunningham, a Royal Navy surgeon who farmed the Hunter Valley near Mount Sugarloaf in the 1820s, may have been the first European to write about the phenomenon in his memoir.
The local Aboriginal people told him that the creature was called Utakin in that area.
Fearsome man-eating creature, which resembled a tall man with a hairy body and long mane.
His feet, this is a folkloric sort of detail.
Its feet were reversed to confuse trackers, and its skin was so tough that spears could not pierce it.
It roamed by night and devoured children, but was afraid of fire.
Well, that reversed feet syndrome detail is, as you probably know, that's a folklore motif.
It's a motif that crops up in folklore all over the world for some reason.
And in all of the theatres of ape-man action around the world that I've visited, that detail has been mentioned, not often, but mentioned enough in Malaysia, in the Bahamas, a place I went.
And it was recorded occasionally in North America, apparently occasionally, Native Americans would mention that detail.
So it's extremely odd that it crops up.
But yeah, Captain Cunningham didn't claim to have seen a yowie, but around the same era, 1820 to the early 1830s, a Reverend Trelpel was working and living with the Aborigines in the same general area.
And he heard and recorded the same details.
He mentions that there was a sighting by a European there in the 1820s, a soldier of the 46th Regiment.
So that, yeah, there were many early missionaries and explorers who heard.
Case 12 here, case 12, 1839 to 1844.
New South Wales and Tasmania.
Louise Anne Meredith arrived in Australia with husband Charles in 1839 after a year at Homebush, New South Wales, moved down to Tasmania where she lived for the rest of her long life.
She was an artist and a writer, poet, books about natural history.
And I'm just skipping forward here in the account.
She said that the Aboriginal people have an evil spirit which causes them great terror, whom they call Yahoo, of Devil Devil.
He lives in the tops of the steepest and rockiest mountains, which are totally inaccessible to human beings, and comes down at night to seize and run away with men, women, or children, whom he then eats.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, well, certainly the Aborigines are very frightened of the yowie.
Well, they had many names for the yowis, of course, Dulagal and Utakan and so on.
As she mentions, they also call them Yahoo, which is interesting.
But yeah, and She says they believe them to be an evil spirit.
Well, but obviously they also believed that they were real enough to come down from the mountains and kill Aborigines.
So they had a physical reality as well as being an evil spirit.
And I've talked to Aboriginal people who say that more or less the same thing.
They say, well, you know, have fun chasing these things, but you can't catch them.
You can't kill them.
They're part spirit and part man.
Now, Native Americans also say that in some areas.
They're real.
There was the Miccosukee Indians in the Everglades in Florida told me that.
They said, look, these things are real.
Our people see them.
They seem to turn up here around every 20 years or so.
They'll kill a deer, they'll smash some trees, they'll break a window or something or other, and then they're gone.
And our people, these people told me, our people call them Yati Wasagi.
And that means something like a disappearing man or a different man.
And they said, what our people are saying really is that these things come from another dimension.
They're here for a while and then they're gone.
Well, that just about sums up a lot of modern yaoi activity.
They're here for a while.
They're definitely here.
No question about that.
The witnesses are honest.
The footprints are there.
The trees are smashed.
Animals are killed.
But then they're gone.
Then they're gone.
And that's part of the enigma, isn't it?
Yeah, you know, as soon as the posses,
So I, to the despair of some flesh and blood Sasquatch enthusiasts, I've been convinced for years and years, actually, ever since I spent a year in North America in the late 70s.
I've been convinced that there's something distinctly uncanny about the Sasquatch phenomenon.
The creatures are real, but there's a lot of very odd aspects to the phenomenon.
Of odd circumstances.
By 1847, this becomes more up close and personal near Cape Otway, Victoria.
Quotes, while riding through the scrub, the unnamed writer paused besides a freshwater lake, where he was seized from above by, quotes, a cold, bristly hand and hoisted out into the branches of a large tree.
His captor was a huge animal nearly corresponding to the orang of the eastern archipelago, orangutan, I guess, which proceeded to caper around in a slapstick manner.
After some hours, the eight-foot-tall monster stripped him of his clothes as it struggled to don his trousers.
The stolen hat fell over its eyes and the man lashed out.
That sounds almost fantasy-like.
Yes, yeah, boy, you certainly pick the hoaxes.
That one is an example of a very clumsy hoax, you know, just a colonial era tall story.
It purported to come from an area that has produced a few modern era yowi reports.
So we speculate that whoever wrote that story back in the 18, was that in 40s?
1847.
1847.
Yeah, well, I think, Paul and I think that, I mean, it's bogus, but whoever wrote it probably had heard some yowie law from Aborigines or other British settlers,
because it has elements that if it wasn't for the crazy slapstick details, it has elements that might sound authentic.
But no, no, that's just, that's an example of one of those false stories.
But look, we threw it in to, I mean, we didn't reject any story that was purported to be related to the hairy man or yowie from that era because we thought, well, it'd be dishonest to just keep the ones that sound as though they make sense.
And it's part of the narrative.
I absolutely get what you say here.
I wonder if we've got time in this segment here to put this one in here.
1876, Crookwell, New South Wales.
A correspondent in writing to us from the Crookwell district on the 23rd Instant says, the news is of what is supposed to be a veritable live gorilla, the monster, having been seen within four miles of the village of Crookwell on several nights during last week.
Two or three families have been, quotes, so much frightened by the hairy man that they've left their own houses and gone to live together for safety.
Now that is a shaggy-haired creature, tracks said to have been followed for some distance, hasn't been found.
But this sounds like a scary one.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, that reads just like a modern era report.
It's pretty straightforward, isn't it?
So they don't know what they're talking, what kind of creature they're talking about there.
They don't know the term yaoi.
They just say it's supposed to be a veritable gorilla.
Two families frightened.
Yes, reported to have been about six feet high, shaggy hair, face and all.
Tracks followed.
Yeah, yeah.
And last night a party to the teeth were Going out.
Shots were fired without taking any effect on his body.
That's interesting, seemed impervious to being shot.
Yes, yes.
I've spoken to two guys in the modern era who have shot yowis and without any, without bringing them down.
Yes.
There's just over the page from that one, that bookworld one, you see there's a very good one, the November 1876 Rocky Bridge Waterholes.
That's a good one.
Case number 47.
Yeah, there's been a couple of modern era reports too, just there.
So it's a long report.
You wouldn't want to read it all out.
But it was a party of young men and women, people who came from the cattle stations, cheap stations around there.
They went fishing at the Rocky Bridge water holes, an area where the Aborigines refused to go.
The Aborigines say there was something taboo about it.
And sure enough, a gigantic big creature approached.
First off, there was only a young woman in the camp.
The others were just fishing a short distance away.
And the young woman was suddenly startled by observing a man that she naturally imagined was one of her own party coming towards the fire.
Walking closer, she discovered it to be an unsightly inhuman bearing in every way the shape of a man with a big red face, hands and legs covered with long shaggy hair.
From fright, she became almost spellbound, screamed and screeched, but unable to run.
This is a sort of detail that crops up in modern reports.
Spellbound and rooted to the spot.
The men hearing the unearthly cries approached.
The creature was only 50 yards away.
Two of the men armed themselves with tomahawks and cudgels and followed the phenomenon.
When it suddenly turned around, they also halted.
They could see the whole shape of this thing.
It was like a big slovenly man covered with hair, back and belly, legs.
The devil devil, or whatever it may be called, doubled around and made back towards the fire.
And the women again, on seeing this, I like this detail, on seeing him coming, a fearful commotion amongst the females and a kind of supernatural terror among the men took place.
But the creature changed direction and took off.
So the witnesses are named, they're respected, well-known people in the area and so on.
But that detail of people experiencing like a supernatural terror, absolute unbearable fear, is mentioned quite often in modern reports.
And then we get to a report from 1902.
I'm skipping forward, Jervis Bay.
This is near Curambeen Creek, near Jervis Bay, New South Wales.
And I think this place has got a bit of a history with more modern reports there.
But the report was of a creature, strongly built, short-necked, hairy, hair on the back of his hands, two or three inches long, a bit smoky looking, a bit grey, darkish brown.
That's the colour that we often get.
Darkish brown hair.
Then as much detail as a startled boy who observed this could absorb.
And then they say the next day we tracked him.
He had feet like a human's with five toes.
One nearby ridge, they found evidence that the little creature lived with others in a small cave and dined with shellfish.
That, I think, is maybe one of the first reports of how these creatures might live.
Yeah, yeah, it's an unusual detail.
Well, you know, if they spend, if they're real, they've got to eat, I suppose.
Yeah, mind you, that story took 77 years for that old guy to tell that story.
He told it to Patricia Riggs of the Maclay Argus in 1977, and it occurred in 1901 or 1902.
But it's in an area where there have been modern era reports.
And it's unusual also, as you will have noticed, it refers to a very small creature.
This creature was only two or three feet tall, the hair-covered man-like creature.
That's one detail that we cover in detail in the Yowie, the 2006 book.
Australian Aborigines talk about the big hairy man, the yowie or the doula gal, as being six, seven, even eight feet tall, man-like and covered all over with hair, usually almost always solitary, although sometimes there are sightings of two or three of them together.
Aborigines in many areas, many, many areas in Australia, also believe in that there's a smaller type of hairy ape man called jungidi or net net or various other terms depending on the language group.
This one that old Henry Methvin met would undoubtedly have been a jungidi.
It wouldn't have been a dwarf yowie or a juvenile yowie.
I wouldn't have thought so in any case.
But I have heard some of the jungidi reports I've been told personally and have read of mention them living in caves or hollows in rocky piles of rocks.
And in many cases, they're not solitary.
There's two or three or four or more of them.
So the Jungadi phenomenon or legend is different in some respects to the Yaoi phenomenon or legend.
But yeah.
So we've got probably in this book about four or five or more maybe reports of very small hairy ape men that we would call junglees.
Which contrasts to the other reports.
Case 117, Tony.
This is New South Wales again, west of Boydala, 1905.
Like I say, while exploring on Sunday, May the 7th, we saw a strange-looking animal, just like a hairy man, run out of some rocks and along a beaten track, leaving a foot track similar to a man's.
The foot marks were about 14 inches long.
The animal appeared to be seven foot high with tremendously long arms, reaching to below the knees.
When it got to about 100 yards away, it stood and did not appear to be frightened, but after a while walked away gently in the direction of Wyoila Creek Mountains.
None of us tried to hinder it.
It looked too fierce.
Some good detail in that.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good, solid report.
I'd bank on that one.
It's in a good area that's produced a hell of a lot of modern era yowie reports as well.
Yeah.
Around Padala, New South Wales.
Yeah, I've spent a lot of time down around there.
It's a very, very large forested region and not all that many people.
The Aborigines are unanimous in saying that the hairy man is there still, the Yowie.
So, yeah.
And some of these places seem to have, like you say, clusters.
There's a place called, we would say here because it's, I know it's near Worcester in the UK, Kempsey, but I think you would say Kempsey, New South Wales.
Kempsey.
Maria River, 1930.
A woman called Melbourne Cullen, she was 12 then, encountered a yowie near her home on the Maria River.
Seven foot tall again, very broad shoulders, long tan-coloured hair.
The hair on the face was as thick as the hair on a dog.
Quotes, I took one look at him, ran away screaming.
I swear to this day, this was a real hairy man.
It was not a kangaroo, wasn't an ape or a monkey.
It stood up straight like a man.
Yeah, and she's got a nice sketch of what she saw too there.
Yeah, that Maria, sorry, the Kempsey area is a real hotspot.
But as with many other apparent hotspots, it could be that, see, this lady reporter at the Maclay Argus, Patricia Riggs, was particularly interested in the yowie phenomenon.
And she would feature yowie stories that cropped up and even ask people to write in with telling them what they knew.
So there were a lot of people, both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal, who contacted her.
So had Patricia Riggs not been working at the Maclay Argus, then perhaps we wouldn't know about this stuff.
But there were the colonial era reports too in that Kempsey area.
So yeah, you got one there, case 148, too, Burnt Bridge.
That's right near Kempsey.
Yeah, I notice in that one that's on page 118, two young cousins, Mamie Moseley, Mamie Mason, says that she and her two young cousins were coming home just on dark.
I had a little dog with me.
We were going past the lantana and I could hear this growling.
The little dog was yelping and carrying on.
His hair was standing on end.
I pushed the little ones under the fence just as it came through the lantana.
They rolled down the embankment and I stood there and this thing, it had hair all over it and the smell was something terrible, something like a pig but not quite.
Sour and stale stench, like something rotten.
It came ambling towards me, moving its arms and long arms about down to its knees, long hands.
It stood looking at me.
I could see it had a face, not like an animal, and hair down over its eyes, and the eyes were glaring.
And get this detail here.
It sort of had me hypnotized.
My little dog butted me on the legs.
I jumped the fence, rolled down and ran.
The other kids were screaming.
My grandfather, John, mostly, ran down and shot the gun off.
I couldn't talk.
The little dog crawled under the house and wouldn't come out until the next morning.
I've always liked that one.
And, you know, as I said, she's not the only person who uses the term hypnotized or mesmerized.
It crops up often.
So it makes you wonder what they're tapping into to be able to do that.
I want to skip forward to 1938.
This is case 171.
Stupidly, I haven't written down where this was, but it's case 171, a man called Clyde Shepardson.
And I've included this one because it looked like a great account.
And I'm going to quote here just quickly.
He put his hands on either side of his head with his palms towards us, snarled more or less to say, you better get out of here.
His fingers were curled like a claw, like it was going to grab you or rip you open.
I suppose we could have shot at him, but we never even had that in our mind.
We just thought like the quicker we get out of here, the better.
We wandered off slowly, keeping our eyes on it, didn't turn our backs.
We didn't want to run because he might have took after us.
It kept its back against the tree, followed us with its eyes until we got out of sight.
Once we got out of the thick scrub, we just bolted.
It was rusty yellow, camel coloured, would be the closest.
I've still got the vision imprinted on my mind to this day.
Six foot tall, shaped more or less like a person, very broad shoulders again.
Fairly nuggety is the word that he uses.
Solid, and it has a fair amount of fur on it, more like fur than hair.
It was pretty rough looking, not too disheveled, not too dirty, fairly long arms, legs were furry all the way down.
It seemed to have a broad forehead, looked like an ape in some ways.
The face was fairly flat and broad.
And you see those drawings of Stone Age men.
It looked a bit like one of them, says Clyde Shepardson.
What a great account.
Oh, it was fantastic.
Yeah, I remember vividly I visited him and his wife, and we said, at last, after 60 years, I can finally tell someone about this.
I'll never forget it.
Never, he said.
And I would bet my pension that he was telling the truth.
He was just a very decent old guy, World War II veteran.
And he was telling this story in the presence of his wife, who'd been married to for 50 years.
Yeah, it was a great story by a great witness.
The only thing that could have improved it would have been if his mate, who was with him at the time, was still alive, who could have elaborated, I mean, verified it.
But yeah, we do value multiple witness sightings greatly.
But in Clyde's case, I mean, that was just gold.
I was very honored that he would tell me his story.
And it is a great story.
In my notes here, the nine pages of A4 notes, I've jumped ahead in time to the 1970s, but there must have been cases, I guess, in the 50s and 60s.
Can you think of any that were particularly notable?
Yeah, now that I'm been harping on the paranormal, there was one that came in just before we put this book together, 1956.
And like you, this guy was a broadcaster, Frank Avis, a retired broadcaster.
And Paul noticed, somehow or other, noticed in Frank Avis' memoirs that he wrote in 2007 that he had seen a yaoi.
He didn't know what yaois were at all, absolutely didn't know.
And he and some young friends were staying on property near Yonge in New South Wales, and they were out rabbit shooting.
And a kangaroo, huge big red kangaroo, came crashing out of the scrub on this small mountain that they were on, came out into the open, went right past them as if they weren't there.
And they, being young and silly, just started to shoot like mad at it, didn't hit it.
And then he said, my mates were still firing wildly and yelling.
For some reason, I looked up the hill and there, standing on the edge of the bush from which the kangaroo had run was this creature looking straight at me, eating leaves from a tree.
It looked almost human with two arms and legs and was covered in dirty red-orange hair.
We were about 25 meters apart.
It was around five feet tall.
One thing I remember and will carry with me is that it looked straight into my eyes.
There was this mesmerizing contact.
The animal slash creature had big brown sorrowful eyes.
I'll never forget them.
So he shouted out something rather dramatic and his mates stopped shooting and turned around to look at him.
And I remember explaining to them how I'd seen something when I turned back to look at the hill that was gone.
And he didn't know.
He decided to shut up basically about this for the rest of his life.
Later on, when the landowner asked about what we'd been doing all day, one of the other boys said, oh, Frank saw something up there in the bush and burst out laughing.
Farmer Jim looked across and asked me what it was.
I made some stupid excuse, like it might have been a cow Or something.
I looked up and Jim's eyes met mine.
My jaw dropped.
The subject was never mentioned again.
But I knew the minute Jim looked at me that afternoon that the thing I'd seen, he'd seen it too.
So, yeah, but Frank Avis says, you know, it looks, it had this mesmerizing contact when the thing looked straight at him.
So, yeah, that was a good one from the 1950s, a good one with the high strangeness, that is.
There are many, many more straightforward ones without the high strangeness factor.
Well, there are some accounts of kids encountering these creatures.
It's not just an adult phenomenon.
We had the 12-year-old girl, August 1973, Case 196, Burley Heads, Queensland.
Teenagers Alan Livingston, Brian Morray, Ken Kilner, and Gary Hoffchild were driving along the Talibudagera.
I'm sure I've said that right, wrong.
Talabudgera.
Talabudera?
Talabudgera.
Talabudga.
Talabudgera.
Talibudgera.
That's just like a spell.
Creek Row at about 11 o'clock one night.
They saw what looked like a pair of glowing eyes in the scrub.
Stopped to investigate.
Soon as we got near the thing, it came charging.
The reason I'm doing this is because this is a chase.
It came charging towards us, 5'8, two arms, walked on two legs like a man, covered in reddish fur.
We didn't stay around for too long to find out exactly what it was.
We took off like rabbits.
As we ran back to the car, we could hear its padded feet thumping the ground behind us.
I mean, actually, there's a bit of hidden terror there.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, I bet you it was very, very terrifying.
It sounds very much like some of the witnesses I've spoken to on other occasions.
But yeah, that was interesting.
That was 1973.
You see, even as late as that, those guys didn't know about yaois.
They'd never heard of yaois.
So they just, what they went and told the police, didn't they?
And the Gold Coast Bulletin called it the Burley Bunyip.
You know, they called it a bunyip.
See, even the press up there didn't know anything about yowis.
They said, oh, the Aborigines used to talk about scurry creatures called bunyips.
So this must have been a bunyip.
We'll call it a bunyip.
But it was clearly a yaoi encounter.
And that Gold Coast, city of the Gold Coast is an interesting city.
It's a narrow strip of a city along a section of the southeast Queensland coast.
And just inland from the suburbs of the Gold Coast, there's very thick scrub and then rainforest-covered mountains that go back and back and back for hundreds of kilometers.
And there's a lot.
That's a prime hotspot because it's a city virtually impinging on Yaoi territory.
And incidentally, I guess you may get around to the appendix of the book where our friend Dan Harrison and his friends got some thermal images of a yaoi a couple of years ago, 2022, I think it was, 21.
That spot where they got the images with the thermal imaging camera is in the Gold Coast hinterland just around there.
And what happened to those images, Tony?
Because that's the one thing that people who like to be skeptical about yaoi or Bigfoot stories, they say, well, you know, where's the physical evidence?
Where are the credible photographs?
Where is the electronic evidence?
Well, if you've got that kind of profile, surely that would have made international news, wouldn't it?
Well, it was reported internationally in Bigfoot land, as it were, you know, and it did get some coverage in the Australian press.
But if you want to have a look at those thermal images, just go to the Australian Yowie Research website, yowiehunters.com.
And Dean Harrison has the images there, as well as a bit of a video explaining how the images were taken.
They were actually taken by his friend Buck Buckingham, who did some of the illustrations for our book.
And I know Dean and Buck, and I know they're telling the truth.
This story is true.
They got these thermal images.
But as Dean says, these images aren't going to cut any ice with skeptics.
They're just the sort of thing that gets produced from time to time in North America, where you get these images that look interesting, but they don't really prove anything.
These are essentially just silhouettes in colour on Dean's website.
they're blazing orange in color because of the thermal imaging camera but um they they're fairly
It's either one of Dean's teams standing on a box with some kind of monkey suit on, or he and his team were hooked by some sort of extremely stealthy hoaxes way up there in the jungle, which is damn near impossible.
Or it's what it appeared to be.
Yeah, yeah.
So there was other physical traces up there too, many stick formations.
You'd have to read the appendix there to fully appreciate it.
There was also a gigantic dropping, a very foul-smelling dropping that they found in an interesting situation on a boulder in a semi-flooded stream.
Now, we've got about 10 minutes or so to go on this recording, Tony.
So I'm going to try and leap forward through some cases more recently here.
I've got to do this one because it happened at a place called Howard, near Burham Heads, Queensland.
Mark Smith, this is one of your cases.
You interviewed this man.
Oh, yes.
He said it was massive, huge.
It seemed to be down on all fours, but hunched over like it was using its front legs to help it run as it came across behind a dingo pup.
Maybe four feet of it made a swipe at its hind quarters with its right hand, and this pup just span, rotated in the air, and in one fluid motion, this thing just grabbed it by the neck, stood up on its mad back legs, kept its stride going, and ran away.
The pup was just dangling in its hand, dead.
Now we have to say that dingoes are formidable and yowis are unafraid of them.
Yes, yes.
Well, I'm not surprised that a yaoi could kill a dingo.
And that guy, Mark, wasn't it?
I'm just having trouble myself finding it.
Was it 2006, was it?
1995, case 220.
220.
1995.
Oh, yeah.
No, yeah.
Yeah, that was a very interesting case.
And the location, Howard, is a very interesting location.
In 2006, a bit further on in the book there, a family, a mother and her daughter, case 235 on page 212,
that this mother and her daughter and her niece ran into a small yowie and then a large yowie while riding horses near Howard.
Well, so that's a multiple witness event.
And indeed, I've got a quote here.
I'm sorry to jump in, Tony.
I'll just quote you.
I could see it was very well shaped around the arms.
You could see the muscle on its stomach and its shoulders were like three or four feet wide.
I think there's a sketch here, but it's an enormously, once again, something with enormous broad shoulders.
Yeah, yeah.
That was young Xay, right?
That was her mother, Wendy.
And Zai.
Yeah, well, see, that's just a couple of kilometers from where Mark Smith saw the Yowie burst across the road and grab that fleeing dingo.
So I always sort of give more credit to, if you get a case like Wendy and Xai, their case is strong anyway, because there were three witnesses and it was in broad daylight.
But I give extra credence to Mark Smith's dingo killing Yowie story because it was so close, distance-wise, in the same area.
So yeah, it's very interesting up there, Barron Heads.
I spent a bit of time up there.
So, yeah, but there are, when you get time to read it more closely, that episode with Wendy and Zai and her niece, there are several very high strangeness elements to that that they mention.
And could you just sum those up?
We've got about five minutes now, but can you sum those up for me?
Did they feel that it was it communicating with them by thought?
No, the actual yaoi events, when they Xai came close to the small yaoi and then the three of them saw the larger yaoi, there wasn't anything intrinsically weird about that, not particularly.
But when Paul Cropper and this policeman friend of ours interviewed the lady and her daughters at length, they started talking about other strange things that had happened around there or to them.
The UFOs, you know, floating lights.
The young girl, the Sai, she said that she had had ghostly experiences.
And then she also, as she was walking her dog on the beach at Burram Heads, she saw a tall, strange, skinny red, man-like creature that was glowing red.
It was shaped like a Aboriginal Quincan figure.
It wasn't a yowie, it was something just absolutely dead strange, brightly glowing.
So you'd have to go through the account, the whole account, just to sort of get the flavor of it.
Okay, well, our connection may cut itself off quite soon, but I want to try and dive into one or maybe two in the couple of minutes we've got.
Case 239, 2009, Connolly's Creek, five miles west of Mount George, New South Wales.
Faye Burke, her cousin, Alana Garnet, you've got photographs of them.
Contacted a local paper.
And the most important thing about this is the sketch, which is of an absolutely huge beast.
This is 2009.
Yeah, yeah, that was a very good sighting, very good.
And the ladies were extremely convincing.
So it's a dual witness.
And people went out to the site with them later and found a stinking patch of urine that smelt particularly foul and footprints.
And as you say, phase sketch is very good.
The highest, again, sorry to bore you with the high strangeness elements, but the footprints were three-toed, which makes no sense zoologically or anthropologically, three-toed.
Now, this is an odd thing about the yowie phenomenon.
The footprints aren't always five-toed.
Occasionally, even those found after a very well-attested incident like this, they're clearly three-toed.
And that occurs in North America as well, to the consternation of some Sasquatch hunters.
Three-toed tracks make no sense.
They don't fit the standard description.
I just want to get this one in, and just to point out to people listening to this, that we talked about another case we won't talk about here because we talked about it last time.
But it was the great story in 2018 of the trucker Glenn Kilmartin that encountered this huge great thing in front of his truck.
So you can hear that on the previous podcast we did.
Last one I want to do for now, though, if we can, Tony, October 2016, near Gungara, Victoria.
This is 29-year-old Sam Keown contacted you in November 2016.
And effectively, whatever it was looked angry, running full pelt towards me.
Now, they're not walking away.
This thing is coming right towards you.
I put the car into gear and put my foot to the floor.
And it kept up with me.
What a story.
Yes.
Yeah, he was a good witness, very sincere guy.
But he was blown away by the whole thing.
I'm just trying to get onto it here now.
I can't quite find it.
But yeah, so that was down on the Victorian border, right?
Yeah, Keith.
As he said himself, well, the weirdest thing, and he was very hesitant about telling us this.
He said, well, just about the same damn thing happened hundreds of kilometres north just a couple of weeks later.
The first event was October 2016.
The next one was early November 2016 near Chinchilla, way up in Queensland.
This other yaoi cased his car and he said, how in the hell could the same thing happen?
There's something decidedly strange, to say the least, about this.
The phenomenon seemed to zero in on him.
I mean, that is a great account.
And how on earth could something like that keep pace with a car?
I think that is astonishing.
Yeah, exactly.
There were a whole lot of strange elements to his yaoi events and other things that had happened to him.
But he certainly is not the only one to be a repeater.
That is, to have more than one yaoi incident in a lifetime.
Paul Cropper and I coined that word repeater.
First, when we were collecting yaoi reports, we thought, oh, we can't believe this guy.
He claims that he's had more than one yaoi event in, you know, in different, widely different places.
But now we think, well, yeah, maybe, you know, maybe some people, it's just something about some people.
I think so.
That makes them more susceptible, which brings us at the very end.
I mentioned her at the beginning.
Enia Kiriaki, this is Case 251, I think, encountered twice, 2015, 2019.
She said, quotes, it was something that appeared for me.
It was like he knew me.
It was a good one, and it had a couple of unusual elements, didn't it?
Because the first time in all of our yaoi research, we get a report of a yaoi smiling.
She insists that it was smiling at her.
And this is a middle-aged woman of Greek extraction at a property near Gympie.
It's a hot spot.
I'll be going and staying at Gympie in just about two months' time.
It'll be a little yaoi expedition.
But yeah, as we describe her, she came across as a cheerful, confident lady, born and raised in Greece, visiting a friend on a property at Pura, 12 kilometres away from Gympi.
Yeah, it feels so good to be able to tell people about this without being regarded as crazy.
Well, Kenya, I don't know.
Some people might still think you're crazy, but she said, I was standing on the porch.
This is in daylight, early in the morning, looking downwards into the forest.
And this large, ready, orangutan-like creature pushed the trees aside and just walked out, waving its arms up and down like it was very happy to see me.
It had a grin on its face, and it started walking towards me, waving.
You know how children wave their arms up and down, as if to say, oh, there's my friend.
Let's go for a walk or something.
I could see eagerness on its face.
Well, this is, you know, just like out of left field, an expression like that.
But she seemed, you know, transparently honest, this woman.
I just stood there looking at it.
I couldn't talk, trying to work out what it was.
I didn't know about yaois.
All I could think of was an orangutan had escaped from a zoo or someone had been keeping animals illegally.
And I said to my friend, who was sitting behind me, have your neighbors got monkeys?
He got up to see what I was looking at, and he went white.
His jaw dropped.
He was ready to faint.
It had been walking towards me until my friend stood up.
Then it stopped and put its arms down.
You know how we do when you're disappointed?
It looked very sad, but didn't turn around.
And my friend took me inside and went around locking the doors and windows.
I would have allowed the creature to come closer.
I reckon he would have walked right up to me.
But when he saw my friend, he sort of lost his bearings like, oh, there's someone else there.
I was looking outside the rest of the day.
I could feel something looming outside, and so could my friend.
It was really strange.
We looked at each other and didn't talk about it.
But my friend said, please don't walk into the bush.
I could see he was frightened.
I only stayed there with him a few days, and he said, God, how am I going to stay here alone now?
Men are such chickens.
And then she laughed.
The creature was big, seven foot tall, a big being.
I don't want to call it an animal.
It wasn't really an ape.
Its face had more human features.
So something empathetic about this creature.
Yes, yes, very much so.
And that is odd, isn't it?
And Sarah said, so you said it had a grin on its face.
Yes, the mouth.
It had a grin.
But I can't remember the teeth.
And the eyes were open like, hi there, let's go for a walk.
The face was black and the chest was black.
And when it lifted its arms, I could see hair hanging from under them.
Very, very long arms.
Let's see, the description goes on.
It's basically yaoi-like, but it didn't, at that stage, she hadn't heard of yowies.
And Sarah said to her, are you, yeah, Tania, the Greek lady, said, it was something that appeared for me.
It was like he knew me.
I consider myself very special to have seen that.
Now, Tania is only one of three ladies in this collection who say the yowies showed themselves to the ladies deliberately for some reason.
And Sarah said, are you a spiritual person, psychic, intuitive?
Tania said, yes.
I realized I was looking at something special that other people don't get to see.
I know that sounds egotistical now that I say it, but I thought, wow, God, what have you presented to me here?
It was the most beautiful thing.
The image will stay with me forever.
And we have to see, you reference Sarah, this is the person who did the interview.
Yes, Sarah, my God, I almost forget a second name.
Sarah Bignall.
Yeah, she runs a podcast thing in Victoria.
She's a very nice lady and has shared a lot of information.
She works closely with Dean Harrison, who lives at the Gold Coast.
So they swap info and we also interview witnesses for them or do a bit of legwork when we can.
So it sounds to me like you are more of a team now of people.
When it was such a fringe area maybe 50 years ago, it seems there's a bit of a community that's grown up, which is a good thing.
But it also seems to me, just as we wrap this up now, Tony, that the more things you learn about it, the deeper and more mysterious it becomes.
It's not like you're getting the answer to it.
You're just getting further information, and that answer is going to be some way off, because there are so many aspects of this creature, of these appearances, whatever it may be, that are bizarre, strange, and beyond our ken, as we say, which makes it all the more fascinating.
And I've got to say that this book, The Yaoi file, is 300 remarkable cases, all documented, wonderful sketches, complete with photographs.
As you said, there's an appendix which is worth reading.
The book is worth reading.
And Tony, listen, there is 10 hours' time difference between the two of us, but I think we've held up pretty well.
Thank you so much, Tony.
Oh, you've been wonderful.
Thanks, Howie.
I really do appreciate you putting up with me, mate.
And yeah, thanks very much for your kind words about the book.
I appreciate you putting up with me.
No, I love the book.
It's very, you know, look, there are books that are thin on detail and thin on stories, and they try and spread the words over the pages.
You certainly have not done that.
This is clearly the result of a lot of shoe leather, a lot of hard work.
So well done.
Oh, thanks, Matt.
Yeah.
Oh, well, look after yourself over there, Howie.
Have a nice day.
Oh, you will have a nice evening because I'm talking to you in the morning time, and it's well into the evening now in Canberra.
And one of these days, one of these days, I would like to come back to Australia and see some of those places again.
I love Australia.
Oh, yeah.
Please do, Mate.
I always give you the guided tour.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For sure.
But, you know, I've always loved the people there.
You know, if you seem to be all right, if you haven't got airs and graces about you, then you fit right in.
And that's what I like about Australia.
Tony, thank you so much.
Take care.
Oh, thanks, Harry.
Yeah.
Bye, mate.
Tony Healy, one of my favorite people in the world of the unexplained.
Let me know your thoughts about this show and all the others.
Go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
Follow the link, and you can send me emails from there.
More great guests in the pipeline here at the home of the unexplained online.
So until we meet again, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained Online.
Please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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