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July 16, 2023 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:11:02
Edition 740 - Philip Mantle - Pascagoula - Extended!
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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained.
Well, thank you so much for being part of my show.
Thank you for all of the emails that come in.
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You know who you are.
Thanks to Adam, my webmaster, for his continuing work on this show.
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Life is a little jam-crammed at the moment.
Now, this edition of The Unexplained, this is a specially extended by quite a lot of material, a version of the conversation that I had with Philip Mantle about his upcoming book, Beyond Reasonable Doubt, which is an extended, expanded, and fascinating further examination of the Pascagoula case involving Calvin Parker and Charles Hickson, the abduction case from 1973, marking its 50th anniversary in October this year.
This is a must here on the radio version of the show because we didn't do television.
They were doing maintenance on the studios, so we didn't do television last week.
So I had to record a special radio show, which I did.
And you know that I love doing the radio, so they didn't have to ask me twice to do that.
This is a greatly extended version of that conversation with Philip Mantle about the book.
The book will be out in September.
It's called Beyond Reasonable Doubt, as I say.
It is from Flying Disc Press.
And I'm going to let you hear all of it, the whole conversation exactly as I recorded it.
So there are going to be no edits in this.
And you'll hear me finish the show for the radio audience, and then we'll continue for this podcast.
I think that's the way that we're going to do it.
So here it comes.
This is the extended online only version of the conversation with Philip Mantle about the exciting new book, Beyond Reasonable Doubt.
I thought I'd get on my old friend Philip Mantle, the man who has established what is probably the world's leading publishers of books about ufology and related subjects, now branching into other subjects and indeed beyond books.
Philip, of course, lifelong investigator of these matters, one of the most respected people in this field and my friend.
We're going to talk about his new book about the Pascagoula case.
This is Calvin Parker, Charlie Hickson, October the 11th, 1973, and a supposed abduction by aliens on a craft.
Now, Charlie Hickson, and indeed Calvin didn't really talk about this over the years.
After the initial furor had died down, the thing went away.
But like Roswell, these things have a habit of coming back.
But not only coming back, and I know this has happened with Roswell, but in the case of Pascagoula, in recent years there have been a flurry of people speaking about it, claiming to have experienced it, or something at a nearby location, or sometimes a location a couple of 100 miles away, in a similar timeframe.
Something appears to have been going on, and what we called the Pascagoula case may well be a much broader and wider incident than we were aware of.
Let's get Philip Mantle online now, because he's published a new book about this to do with the latest evidence and indeed recapping and expanding upon everything that we do know to date.
Philip, thank you very much for doing this.
How are you?
Yeah, my pleasure, Howard.
Can't complain.
Thank you very much.
What do you think is the fascination of Pascagoula?
Why is it a case that grips almost like no other?
I think it's down to the original two witnesses, Howard.
You know, Charles Hickson at the time was 42 years of age.
Calvin was just coming up 19.
And they were your everyday ordinary guys from Mississippi, you know, had no interest in anything like this.
Their families had grown up in parallel.
So Charlie's dad and Calvin's dad were friends.
Calvin was friends with Charlie's son, Eddie.
And, you know, they both come across.
I always said, you know, to Calvin, you're in the wrong trade.
He says, what do you mean?
I said, you should have been selling cars because you are such an honest and believable person.
So I think it's their down-to-earth personality more than anything else that has had that effect.
Sadly, Charlie is no longer with us.
He passed away in 2011.
And Calvin's seriously ill as we speak.
But thankfully, he's been able to tell his story in full and share it, which is what he set out to do.
And lamentably, as we find throughout ufology, and indeed it will apply to our own lives, Philip, too, of course, people are mortal.
They pass on.
So a lot of the accounts that we get today, the new accounts, are accounts that come from the children of the people who were there directly experiencing it.
No, not with Pascagoula.
What we have to remember, Howard, is this was 1973.
So, you know, people of that age are still around today.
I mean, I left high school the year after in 1974.
Calvin himself was, as I said, almost 19.
So there was a lot of people who were around that age group, most of whom, as far as we're aware, are still alive.
Great.
I put it in a very hand-fisted way.
What I meant was that there are a number of accounts of people who were kids and were with their parents when they experienced.
But that's not all of them.
You've got police officers and all kinds of people here who directly experience this.
Yeah, I would think all but maybe one or two accounts in the new book are first-hand eyewitnesses and not from, you know, a friend of a friend or another member of the family.
In fact, we have two members of the same family, they're actually cousins, both witnessed something that night and didn't know that the other one had.
It's only now that they've realized, oh my, I didn't know you saw that.
Well, you never told me you saw that.
It was the same night, you know, same location.
And it's all come about because of what we've been researching and making them available.
That's fascinating.
We will talk about that in the cases because I think those two people were only brought together to talk about this and to realize this in 2021, wasn't it?
Yes, just very, very, yeah, very recently.
Okay, so we have the case, which we've talked about before, of Calvin Parker.
I agree with you.
I've always found him a very, very credible man and a very nice man to talk about.
I have no doubts about the quality of his recollections or the veracity of his account.
You know, this man had nothing, nothing to gain out of this.
You know, if he'd wanted to be a media superstar, then he'd have done this decades ago, and he didn't.
So, you know, I think that's pretty convincing.
And, you know, he has my very best wishes.
I know he's not well at all at the moment.
Like you say, Charlie Hickson no longer with us.
There have been two books that you've published already about this.
Why is there a need for a third?
Well, we published Calvin's two books, you know, Pascagoula, The Closest Encounter, and Pascagoula, The Story Continues.
And the end of that book says a lot because the story did continue.
We have to remember the location where this incident took place on the Pascagoula River is not in the swamplands of Mississippi.
It's right next to Highway 90.
And so we knew there were one or two witnesses that stepped forward originally.
One was a chap called Mr. Booth.
He ran, I think, a local gas station when he saw something the same night.
So we hoped, Howard, that maybe one or two others may step forward.
And it was the resultant publicity and things that Calvin was doing around his own two books that then persuaded, I don't know if that's the right word, some people to step forward.
Plus myself and my co-author, Dr. Irina Scott, were continually digging in old documents, you know, newspaper cuttings.
And sometimes we find somebody mentioned and we track them down.
Or somebody may just have made a throwaway comment on a Facebook post.
Oh, you know, yeah, we saw it that night.
And we would go to them and ask for an interview.
So information came in from a variety.
I'll give you an example.
I'll give you an example.
When Calvin's first book came out, he had a book signing in Pascagoula.
And this old boy came up.
Can I buy a book, Mr. Parker?
Thank you very much.
Oh, by the way, he says, I saw the UFO that night and he walked away, you know.
And fortunately, somebody was taking photographs.
So we had a picture of this gentleman buying the book from Calvin.
And we put it out there and I passed it on to a few colleagues.
And it was actually the local library in Pascagoula said, I know that gentleman is.
I said, well, if you know him, can you ask if we can speak to him, please?
And she did.
And that gentleman was a chap called Mr. Lewis Lee.
Now, Mr. Lee, on that night of October the 11th, was doing what we call a bit of moonlighting.
He worked a normal job during the day and he was working.
He was a crane operator, wasn't it?
He was a crane operator.
So he got in his cab that night and he said, Philip, my cab was, I don't know, 10, 12 feet off the ground.
And he says, as soon as I looked out over the river, I could see this damn thing.
I can't do a Mississippi accent, Howard.
Being a Yorkshireman, it's difficult to do an English accent.
Never mind anything else, you know.
But he said, Philip had never, ever seen anything like it.
And the only reason he took his eyes off it, there was a problem with the load or whatever was on the end of his crane and his friends shouting at him.
And he said, by the time I turned back, it had gone.
So I said, did you tell anybody?
And he said, Philip, who are you going to call?
He literally says there were no ghostbusters in 1973.
He said, I told my friends and family, but that was it.
And that is just one example.
So I want to get through.
I'm sorry to jump in.
I want to get through in the next segment a breakdown of some of these witnesses, some of whom we were aware of before, some of whom have, like you say, have come about in recent years, partly because of there was an event at Pascagoula, and that turned out to be incredibly useful, but also social media and other people's research and that kind of stuff.
And it's all distilled here in this book.
And people, you know, skeptics, just as we're talking generalities here, Philip, they call all the time and they harangue me for doing this show or about this show because they say that where's the detail?
Now, you have, I think, in this book as much detail as it is possible to get, including a very large section that includes photographs and sketches and police logs and all kinds of material.
God knows how you were able to get it all together.
It's a stunning, stunning effort by yourself and Irina.
But if you want detail, if you're crying for detail, then this is the place to get it.
I think what we need to do then in the remainder of this part of this conversation, just for people who might be new to it, or perhaps it's not the most important thing in the world to them and they've forgotten a lot of the details, let's just give a thumbnail sketch of the events on that October night, if we could.
Yeah.
Well, Calvin Parker didn't live in Pascagill, well, he lived 200 miles away, but he just got engaged to be married and he was working like three jobs.
And his fiancé said, you need to get a nine to five, a regular job.
So his father says, why don't you ring Charlie up?
You know, he works at the shipyards.
Might get you a job.
He was a foreman there.
So he did.
Charlie got him the job.
And the agreement was Calvin would go and live with Charlie Monday to Friday, pay him a small fee for lodgings, and then go home on a weekend.
He bought a brand new car.
So Thursday, October the 11th, 1973, was Calvin's first day at work in the shipyard.
In the morning, he did the health and safety checks.
In the afternoon, he set about working.
He was a welder.
Both men shared an interest of fishing.
So Calvin's driving back to Charlie's at night.
Charlie says, Fancy doing a bit of fishing.
Yeah, great.
They grab the gear, bought some bait on the way.
Calvin's driving, and Charlie's directing him.
And they go, they could drive up to this place.
They pass a car that's, you know, got a courting couple in it.
They pass a no-entry sign.
And Calvin comments on this.
Charlie says, don't take no notice.
Park up, start fishing.
The first spot, they're infested with flies and insects.
So they move, they go to an old abandoned shipyard.
It's got a little pier.
So, you know, sat on the pier, rods out, looking across the water.
And then there's a blue light comes from behind them.
The colour blue is important in a lot of this story.
Calvin thinks it's the police.
I knew we shouldn't have ignored that no entry sign.
We're going to spend the night in jail.
Both men sort of simultaneously turn around.
Of course, it's not the police.
There is a rugby ball-shaped thing descending.
Doesn't quite touch the ground.
It's a couple of feet off the ground.
It has two lights on the left-hand side.
Calvin's first reaction is to run, but there's nowhere to run.
He can't get past this thing.
They're on a pier, so they're surrounded by water.
And then an opening on the right, I mean, just appears.
And again, this intense blue light comes out.
Emerging from this light are three humanoid creatures.
Again, they do not touch the floor.
So they literally hover for want of a better word.
They are about five foot four, no neck, long arms.
They have mitten or pincer-like appendages.
Their legs are stuck together so that the legs aren't running.
They are grey in colour, wrinkly.
They have carrot-like protrusions coming out of both sides and one out of the front of the face.
Two get hold of Charlie.
One get hold of Calvin.
Take them on board this thing where they're separated.
Calvin is laid on this glass table or bed at a certain degree.
The ugly creature, as he calls it, he calls it big ugly, stands in the corner and a different creature, a female appears, pretty much human looking, although the middle fingers are somewhat longer.
Sticks them down his throat, which hurts.
He doesn't like talking about much of this, but they removed his lower clothing, his shoes and socks.
This is an interesting point, and I'll explain why later.
He said, they stuck something in my foot, Anna, you hurt.
You know, he's redressed.
They take him back outside.
Excuse me.
And the next thing he remembers, you know, Charlie's sort of slapping him and saying, are you all right, son?
Are you all right?
This thing departs.
They are absolutely, you know, terrified, especially Calvin.
And they then, I would say, have a heated discussion about what to do next.
Calvin says, you're not telling anybody.
He was more worried, bearing in mind he just got engaged, that his father-in-law, if he got to find out about this, wouldn't allow him to marry his fiancée Waynette, you know.
And so their original decision was, right, we're going home.
We're not going to tell anybody.
On the drive back, it's Charlie who has a change of heart.
He said, we've got to tell someone because what if they come back and do this to somebody else?
Charlie had been in the army.
He fought in the Korean War.
He says, what if this is an invasion?
So they pull in at a phone booth, you know, a public telephone, and they phone the nearby airbase at Keesler.
And a lady said, sorry, but, you know, the United Air States Air Force is no longer in the UFO business.
Phone the local authorities.
So they do, and they end up, I'm cutting a long story short, they end up at the Jackson County Sheriff's Department.
Sheriff Fred Diamond and his deputy Glenn Ryder interview both guys and they are somewhat skeptical, let's be honest.
So what they do, they put both Charlie and Calvin in a room together and say, I'm just going to go get some coffee, guys.
I'll leave you to it.
Unbeknownst to them, in the desks next to them, there is a tape recorder playing.
And it's recording their conversation.
So the deputy comes back a few minutes later, he moves something from the desk.
They've no idea what it is.
And they go back and play it back.
And they're thinking, right, well, we'll catch them now.
We're talking about how the fool goes and what have you, but they're not.
Calvin's literally climbing up the walls.
And they're still talking about how scared they are and what they're going to do.
And so on.
So it changed the attitude of Sheriff Diamond.
And they said, well, there's nothing we can do, just go home.
And Charlie and Calvin said, look, please don't tell anybody.
So the next day they get up.
As strange as it may seem, they think, right, we'll go back to work.
When they get there, they see there's a few more cars parked outside than normal.
And the boss has sent for them.
And the boss says, what the hell's been going on?
You know, my phone won't stop ringing.
I've got newspaper members and journalists ringing from all over the place.
Somehow, the story had got out.
And to this day, Calvin does not know how the story was leaked.
So they were then sent to the hospital for an exam.
And, you know, they also went quite ironically to Keesler Air Force Base to be checked for radiation.
And the guys at Keesler said, well, why are you here?
You know, the radiation check was negative.
Why don't you come and tell us what happened?
So they did.
And there's a full recording of that at Keesler Air Force Base.
It's not on tape.
They used a stenographer.
So in the book, we have the full transcript.
It tells you everybody who was there.
There's nothing redacted.
Similarly, the tape recording that was made surreptitiously at the Jackson County Sheriff's Office has since been made available, but they were still unaware of it.
Then the following day, you know, Dr. Alan Hynek appears.
Let's park it there because we're out of time on this segment.
We'll pick it up from there.
Then we'll get into the new material, I think.
It's a great book.
I'm holding it here.
As you know, Philip, I've got three versions of this.
The hardback, the paperback is excellent.
It's got a real good weight to it.
It's a lovely read, flows perfectly.
So we'll talk more about this new research, Beyond Reasonable Doubt, the Pascagoula Alien Abduction, Philip Mantle and Irina McCammon Scott, PhD.
And the forward is by Calvin Parker himself.
I'm not going to waste any time back to Philip Mantle of Flying Disc Press, the new book Beyond Reasonable Doubt.
Further information and plenty of it, if you want detail, it's here, on the Calvin Parker Charlie Hickson abduction case at Pasca Goula.
Now, we got it to the point, didn't we, Philip, where they basically been told at the end of this not to talk about this.
And they kind of determined both of them not to.
Then they go to a USAF base and are recorded there whilst they're being checked for radiation.
Then Jay Alan Hynek gets involved in this.
Now, Jay Alan Hyneck is probably one of the seminal figures in all of ufology.
This guy was a scientist and he was deputed to investigate the phenomenon.
And I think if I'm right in saying you tell me if you agree with this interpretation, this man went from arch sceptic to being pretty much convert in all of this.
Is that so?
Absolutely.
And another PhD turned up as well.
That was Dr. James Harder.
And, you know, they interviewed both Charlie and Calvin.
They listened to what has become known as the secret tape.
And they were convinced that both gentlemen were telling the truth.
And before Hynek departed, he held a press conference and asked people to give them some room, treat them with respect, and that these people had had an experience, period.
That was it, you know.
And to this day, Calvin can't figure out again how Hynek got there so quick because he kept in touch with Dr. Hynek.
He would call him at home on occasion.
And we confirmed this through Heinek's son, Paul, because he was, I think, about 10 years old at the time.
He used to take the phone calls and he used to have a blackboard next to the phone and he would write the messages on there.
Dad, you know, call this.
And Calvin would ring him up and he'd say, oh, dad's not in at the moment.
He says, I know he is.
Go and get him for me.
And they've kept, you know, they are now friends.
So we're able to confirm little things as well.
But again, like I said, Calvin has no idea how this story got out.
You know, Sheriff Diamond said he didn't release it.
He blamed Charlie for a long time.
Charlie was adamant that he never released it.
So the sort of last thing Calvin thought might have happened is somebody hid it on one of the police scanners or whatever, you know.
And speaking of the police, you know, when Charlie made that phone call to the authorities that night, it was a gentleman by the name of Mick Diamond, the son of Sheriff Diamond who took the call.
He was the dispatcher on duty that night.
And we've spoken with Mick, and he said he must have had 50 plus phone calls reporting UFOs that night alone.
And when he went back to the station at the end of his shift, there were people there in person reporting it.
And we found out only this year via a newspaper article, it was an interview with the sheriff.
And he said himself, he said two days later, he too had a UFO sighting.
So it didn't stop after October the 11th, I can assure you.
That is astonishing.
And what you said, 50 calls, people waiting, that indicates, and you've got a lot of new material in this book, but that indicates there are a lot of people who may still be alive and out there who have yet to tell their story.
I'm sure there is, Howard.
I mean, you know, it went through a period here.
My wife said I was like a man on a mission where we were setting off to interview these individuals because they just kept coming thick and fast.
I'll give you an example perhaps of how it all started.
When Calvin's book first came out, a colleague from Greece contacted me.
It's called Stephanos.
And in 1981, so it's a few years later, in 1981, he was in the Greek Merchant Navy and their ship docked him past Gagula.
And Stephanos was also a UFO researcher and he used to write for a magazine.
So he set off to find Charlie Hicks and interview him, which he did.
And he went and made some inquiries at the police station.
And a gentleman there by the name of Don Broader said, I'd recommend you go and speak to this pastor, this clergyman, called Emmanuel Segalas.
So he gave him his address.
Stephanos went and knocked on his door.
And he was of Greek descent, so he invited him in.
And again, on the night of October 11th, 1973, Pastor Segalis, Dom Broadus, who was part of the probation department, and a young lady in the back of the car, a church volunteer, were heading to a kind of an alcoholics anonymous thing, but this was sponsored by the church.
And as they're heading out, the young lady saw it first out of the passenger window, this thing coming towards them.
And this object flew literally right across the road In front of them, heading in the general direction of where Parker and Hickson were.
And they described it.
It's got these two lights on one side of it.
So, what Stephanos did, he took a photograph of that area, took it back, and the pastor drew the UFO on it.
So, we have a drawing, you know, at the actual scene.
And the pastor, I've got a quote here.
I've taken some notes here.
He said, quote, Lord, what is this?
I saw it change its course and head to the area where the fishermen, Mr. Hickson and Mr. Parker, were.
You know, that's pretty specific.
And this was a man of the cloth.
Well, what is interesting, Howard, is the young lady in the back.
Now, the pastor couldn't remember her name, but we managed to find it in a little newspaper article.
And she was called Joanne Hallmark.
And we looked and we looked and looked.
We might managed to find an old 1970s photograph of her.
But she'd only literally been in Pascagoula for a short period of time.
I think she taught at one of the local schools for a short while.
And I looked on social media and she had a couple of accounts, but they hadn't been used for years and years and years.
However, she was located, she was attached, I should say, to a church.
There was a name of this church.
And I managed to find it.
And much to my amazement, the church had its own website.
And on this website were a couple of sermons you could listen to.
And it was two men, but they had the surname Hallmark.
Now, I'm thinking, could this be the lady's sons?
And how many people have that name?
So the church website just had a general email address.
So I emailed them, said I was looking for this lady who'd worked with Pastor Sigalis back in 1973.
I didn't say anything else.
And I said, if she's still available, you know, could you pass my email on?
Lo and behold, three or four weeks later, she contacted me.
So I had to tell her I couldn't beat about the bush.
I explained what I was inquiring about and what we were doing.
And again, three or four weeks later, she got back to us and said, yep, that's me.
And she explained what she'd seen.
Again, my colleague Irina got a phone.
We got a phone number.
She spoke to her on the phone.
And she even sent us an up-to-date photograph of herself.
So we've got one from the 1970s and a contemporary one as well.
And it was just another way of we track down this witness.
People say, oh, if witnesses step forward, they're after their own 15 minutes of fame.
Well, certainly not on this occasion.
And it was another addition to the ever-growing list of people who saw something that night.
You include in the book another abduction case, a Mr. and Mrs. Blair, Vernon or Jerry and Maria.
I think you speak more to Maria because I think Jerry has left us now.
Why have you included this case?
Well, what happened was in the early days, Calvin did a short minute, eight minute video, you know, recording, an interview with a local journalist.
And that was put online eventually.
Somebody put it on YouTube.
And one of the comments underneath said, my mother and father were on the opposite side of the river that night.
And they too saw the UFO.
So I managed to find, again, I found this person on social media, said, can we speak to your mum and dad, please?
And she said, I'll ask them.
They come back and said, yes.
And that was Jerry and Maria Blair, husband and wife.
And again, the night in question, Mr. Blair was working in the fishing industry.
And he was waiting for a boat to come in, but they were literally on the opposite side of the river.
Maria had gone with him, you know, got some of his stuff.
The boat was late.
So Jerry was not in the best of moods.
And Maria said, we saw this blue thing, remember, blue?
Over the opposite side of the river.
It's flying around.
It looked like it was either lost or it was looking for something.
And then their boat came in.
And as they're walking along this little pier, Maria says, there was this huge splash in the water next to me.
And when I looked down, there's a grey man in the water.
Literally.
Mr. Blair, at that point, was a bit reluctant, but he said, yeah, I saw that.
And I saw the grey humanoid as well.
And they decided not to speak up before because, you know, they didn't want to be made fools of.
When I first spoke to Mrs. Blair, she said, I often thought something similar might have happened to us.
And I said, why?
She says, well, I've got this recollection of seeing something out of my peripheral vision and I can't quite make it out.
So eventually, Mr. Blair came back to us.
Mr. Blair had now been taken ill.
And he said, well, in fact, you know, in fact, he insisted on speaking to me from his hospital bed.
He was having a small operation and he wasn't sure if he was going to survive.
And he wanted to tell us.
And he said they too had an encounter experience that night.
And he'd never told his wife.
He was trying to protect her.
And even though he was very ill, his wife went absolute bananas with him.
Fortunately, he survived that minor operation and went on to tell us everything.
Even right up, he died about a year later, I think.
Howard, right, literally with his dying breath, he was still telling his wife what had happened.
So we left that, you know, with Maria because obviously she was grieving for her husband.
And eventually she came back to us and she mentioned the use of hypnosis.
And I said, are you looking to undertake it?
And she says, yes.
So we kind of put her off a bit to begin with, to be honest, Howard, because we felt she was still Upset over her husband's passing.
Anyway, the opportunity came once lockdown had gone and people were out and about again.
So we obtained the services of a local hypnotherapist, a young lady by the name of Crystal Slaughter.
Crystal had no interest or no previous experience in the field of UFOs.
In fact, when it came to put Maria under hypnosis, we didn't tell her anything.
We just gave her a date and a location and a time.
And we had it filmed as well.
So she put Maria under hypnosis and Maria tells us this story about what happened to her, you know, and so on.
And I found it amazing because we had it filmed looking at the hypnotherapist's face when Maria was coming out with this because she had no idea what to expect.
Now, I know some people are skeptical of the use of hypnosis.
I understand that and I appreciate that.
But nonetheless, we've put it in the book verbatim.
Nothing's redacted and you can make of it what you will.
But this, we have to remember, this happened on October the 11th, 1973, about a mile across from where Calvin and Charlie were.
And would you say that Maria's account as given under hypnosis, I think it is, but what would you say is congruent with the accounts of Charlie Hickson and Calvin Parker?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
You know, no doubt about it.
And of course, if you take the hypnosis out of the story, there's still a story because her husband, Jerry, had had no hypnosis and he's telling us an awful lot before he passed away.
I even have a little video clip of him, Howard, and he was insistent on doing this.
He got Maria to film him in the hospital the night before his operation.
And he sat on the hospital bed, you know, still with the stickers on him from the ECG.
And he always called me Mr. Mantle.
And I kept saying, call me Philip.
That's just, you know, that's just the way it was.
And he filmed it.
and it's only a few minutes film.
I mean, it's not a lengthy piece, but he just, he wanted to tell me because he wasn't sure he was going to, And fortunately, he did.
And he managed to tell us the rest of the story before he passed away.
It's almost like a deathbed confession, Howard, although it spreads out over a number of weeks and months, if you see what I mean.
And the thing that you have to say about it is, once again, there is no advantage to be gained from these people telling this story.
There is no advantage to be gained from going under hypnosis other than the advantage of getting some possible closure and clarity for yourself.
Absolutely.
And again, you know, these two people didn't step forward.
Had their daughter, it was her daughter that made that little comment on YouTube.
And I've gone back and read it several times.
And I think we actually quote it verbatim in the book.
Had she not made that comment, we would probably never have heard of them.
You know, never have heard of them.
But I'm glad she did.
And that, you know, and that's the beauty of today's technology when you're researching these things.
So like the witness before, Mrs. Hallmark, we managed to find her through social media, well, through technology.
And the same with Jerry and Maria.
Most importantly, we've got one minute left on this segment, and then we'll do another segment about as many of the contemporary witnesses who've come forward as we can.
But, you know, most importantly, this is material that has impact.
This is material that has credibility.
This is material about a time in our lives.
1973 seems to have been a particularly active year.
And this is material, and I'm sure you would agree with this, that needs to get out there and seems to be, even though it's 50 years this year, almost a never-ending story.
Absolutely.
Talk to me about the puncture wounds evidence, Philip.
Yes.
I mean, even just recently, people have been saying, oh, we need physical proof of these things and so on.
And so, okay, I understand that.
Well, when I met up with Calvin, one of the first things I asked him was, do you have any documents or photographs, etc.?
And he said, no, they were all lost in Hurricane Katrina.
So, okay.
So, one of the things I did was pester the living daylights out of every UFO group and UFO researcher that I could.
Politely, of course, Howard.
And I told him what I was looking for.
And, of course, the obvious place was the Center for UFO Studies, which was set up by Dr. Hynek.
And they sent me a file in PDF format.
And most of it was newspaper cuttings.
But right in the middle of this file is a one-page document that is typewritten.
So it's on an old typewriter.
And the reason we know that is, A, I used to use one, and B, the date on it, which is October the 13th, 1973, the number 13 has been typed over.
So I think the reason they put 12 and then type 13 over the top.
What it does, it describes both Charlie and Calvin being stripped down to their underwear and being given a physical examination.
And in inverted commas, it says puncture wounds were found on Charlie's forearm and Calvin Parker's foot.
And photographs were taken.
Now, if you go back to the accounts that both gentlemen gave, Charlie will tell you when these two creatures approached him, they grabbed him by the arm and he felt a prick.
Calvin, as I mentioned, when he was on board this thing, they removed his lower clothing and his shoes and socks and stuck something in his foot and it hurt.
So I asked Calvin who'd done the physical examination and it was Dr. James Harder.
He was not a medical doctor, but he said, you know, I'll check.
But sadly, there was no, these photographs weren't there.
So fair enough.
I don't know if it was a year or more later.
the gentleman who sent me that file emailed me out of the blue and he said, Philip, I've been rooting through some files today looking for something.
I assume you've already got this, but there you go.
And lo and behold, it is the photographs as referenced in that particular document.
So, what we have is Charlie Hickson's forearm with these marks upon them and Calvin Parker's foot with indents, marks underneath it.
And we know who is who because he scanned the back of the photographs as well, and it had each person's name on.
So, it wasn't a guessing game.
So, we have the testimony of the two gentlemen talking about feeling pricks in their arm and the foot.
We have the one-page document describing these minor injuries, and then we have the photographs as well.
And what is the nature of these wounds, Philip?
Are they clean wounds?
Do they look unusual?
They don't look anything unusual at all.
You know, they look like something's scraped old of you or the one under Calvin's foot looks cleaner, if you like.
The one on Charlie's arm looks like it's been scraped by something.
We did show it to a number of medical professionals, and they're quoted again in the book, but they quite naturally say, looking at photographs that are 50 years old, we can only come to a tentative suggestion.
But they are there nonetheless.
So, when you take each piece on its own, Howard, it doesn't really say anything.
But when you put all three together, I personally believe it makes a powerful argument.
You know, you have witness testimony, you have somebody documenting it at the time, you know, two days after the event, written document of it, and then you have the photographs as well.
And of course, the photos have never been shown in public before.
They were languishing in a file in the Center for UFO Studies.
And again, like everything in the book, Howard, we're going to show the evidence and you can reach your own conclusion.
Have you had anybody, perhaps medical, give them modern day analysis?
Well, the two, yes, we did.
There's two comments in there, I believe, that are from medical professionals today.
One of which I think, well, you know, I'd worked in the emergency department for quite a while.
So I used to see in all kinds of, you know, scrapes and bumps and cuts and bruises and whatever else.
But like they say, you know, the pictures are 50 years of age.
You know, there's not a lot you can do in that respect.
So they are there.
You decide for yourself if they are significant or not.
We believe they are because they fit into the narrative and they were taken at the time.
You know, this isn't something that's been taken 50 years later, a little scratch that somebody had.
These were taken at the time.
Talk to me about anything that you have that's new and we've discussed it before.
These reports that are contemporary, they've only come out in recent years, recent times, of an undersea object, a USO connected with this.
Yeah.
I mean, what we've discovered, Howard, that there were sightings just before Charlie and Calvy's incident, and they continued afterwards.
So just three weeks later, in the same stretch of the Pascagoula River, although a little bit further out where the water's a little bit deeper, there were a number of local fishermen in three little skiffs out fishing at night.
You know, they cast their nets, catch the fish and head off home.
In this stretch of water, they observed something under the water.
It was circular.
It was about 30 feet in diameter.
It looked like, as they described it, one of the old parachutes that were split into segments.
And it lit up.
And it was a murky white colour.
The murkiness was because of all the sediment in the water and so on.
And they got so close to it, Howard, that they could hit it with one of their oars and it went clunk.
And they played cat and mouse with this thing for about half an hour or so around this part of the river before they decided to go to the local Coast Guard station in person and report it.
So the Coast Guard sent a vessel out and they too saw it and they too hit it and it went clunk.
And again, they played cat and mouse with it.
The following day, all of these witnesses were interviewed, you know, and again, there's all the documents about this.
The Coast Guard reported it to the Navy and so on.
So we have all the documentation about it.
Now, a colleague of mine says, do you know, so-and-so, another gentleman, has a photograph of all those fishermen that day, the witnesses.
So I contacted him.
He says, yeah, I've got it.
You know, and he sent it to us.
And on the back, again, on the back of the photograph were all the names of them and their ages.
So we put this out on social media.
Anybody know these people?
Within literally, and I'm not exaggerating, Howard, within literally, within a couple of hours, a lady had contacted me and said, they're all dead, apart from one.
And the one that's alive is my father-in-law.
Oh, Lord.
So I said, well, can we speak to him, please?
And again, I explained what we were about.
And she said, well, I'll ask him for you.
The very same day she came back.
Here's his contact details.
I think his name's Mr. Ryan.
And, you know, I passed that on to Irina.
Yes, Earl Ryan, Mr. Earl Ryan.
And within a couple of days, Irina had him on the telephone.
Again, he reiterated everything that happened that night, told the story.
He then went to tell us that the Navy sent somebody out the next day.
And Mr. Ryan thought this Navy man was a bit of an idiot Because he said, show us where it was.
It's just the water.
It's there.
There's nothing there now.
It's gone.
But the Navy did send someone.
I mean, we made inquiries at the Coast Guard and Navy today and got nothing more.
But in the book, is all the official documents that were generated as a result of this.
And again, it tells you who was involved.
There's even a handwritten letter by one of the Navy, sorry, the Coast Guard that was involved that night.
And, you know.
But subsequently, in later times when people went back trying to find it, it wasn't there.
Well, exactly.
It's like UFO sightings anywhere, Howard, be in the air or under the water.
They've been and gone.
By the time the investigators, whoever, civilian or military, they've been and gone, you know?
And that's it.
But how great that we could record details of it.
I want to really steer through, and how long have we got here?
About seven minutes or thereabouts.
Some more of the witnesses.
Now, it's important to say that you have got a ton of witness accounts in this, and a lot of them people will not have seen before.
Lots of names, some of them you will know, some of them you won't know.
Evan Rouse, we watched it.
It was almost out of sight, then it shrank to a red dot and then darted south like it was out of a rifle.
Michael Long, I recall thinking how awesome and huge the light was.
John Williams was 200 miles away and had two sightings.
Joey Nelson in Mobile, Alabama, saw a giant orb of light in the sky.
This is only for starters, Philip.
Well, exactly.
And one of the criticisms, even originally back in 1973, was that nobody on the toll bridge, the cars drove over, saw anything.
Well, no, nobody has yet has come forward.
So again, we had a gentleman contact us called Mr. Rusty Anderson, Charles Rusty Anderson.
And he said, Philip, I was driving over the bridge that night with my wife and I saw this, again, this blue thing down below us.
And he says, I thought whatever it was was going to crash.
And he said, I watched it for about 90 seconds.
He said, I know that's not long.
I had to disagree with him on that.
90 seconds is a long time to view anything.
And then he said, and there it was.
Two days later, so on the Saturday, he said, I had an aunt that lived down by the river.
And I went to see her.
And she said to me, you'll never believe what I saw the other night.
And his aunt had seen it as well.
And what is interesting, as I pointed out earlier on, Howard, we've been making a documentary about this.
And the crew were out there filming earlier this last year in September.
Mr. Anderson was one of those they interviewed.
So he just put a little post on Facebook said, I've been interviewed today, you know.
He was excited, you know.
And then a lady left a comment, you know, no, no connection as far as we were concerned.
She said, oh, you know, what was that about?
And he explained it.
And she said, I saw the UFO that night.
So again, I got in touch with her and she explained it.
And she said, I'm actually the cousin of Mr. Anderson.
And I didn't know he'd seen the UFO and he didn't know I'd seen it.
Now, she was about a mile away from where the incident took place.
And she went upstairs to put the children to bed.
And she says, I'm closing the curtains before, you know, and the curtains, the view goes out in that direction.
And I saw this blue thing flying around, you know?
Blue again.
And blew again.
So that was another one that, you know, only again, had Mr. Anderson not made that little comment about being filmed for the documentary, we would probably never have got to know about his cousin.
So, and, you know, that happened no end of times, Howard.
And we even have, you know, a Pascagoula police officer by the name of William Gennaro.
Mr. Gennaro saw something, again, just a few nights later, although he didn't actually report it until 1976.
He reported it to the UFO group, the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena.
And we had a copy of the two-page report, and we managed to track Mr. Gennaro down again.
He didn't step forward.
And fortunately for us, he agreed to be interviewed.
And he's been interviewed for the documentary as well.
So it's just another different aspect.
It was a few days later, not that far away.
And we could go on and on and on, Howard, you know.
What I'm going to do, since we've got something like three minutes or thereabouts, not even that on radio, if it's all right with you, Philip, we'll go on for a few more minutes for listeners to the podcast of theunexplained.tv.
But here on radio, in these remaining few minutes, I've got to cherry-pick some of the other material here.
Can you talk to me in a couple of minutes about the involvement of a Chevron oil platform on that night?
This is Coast Guard officials were alerted by Chevron oil platform at 9.30 p.m. on Wednesday, shortly after the radio alarm, but took no action.
I don't know anything we could do about it anyhow, anyhow, joked a Coast Guardsman aboard the Cutter Point lookout state there.
Are you aware of that?
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, the authorities were put on high alert, you know, in and around that time.
And if you go, we actually have a full interview with Sheriff Fred Diamond, done the following day, October the 12th.
And in these interviews, he said they must have taken overall, not on the same night, but in and around that day, about a thousand reports, Howard.
And like I said, even the sheriff two days later reported seeing something else.
And it was chaos.
you know, nobody's equipped to deal with this type of thing.
So we're talking about a full-scale alert on or around that time because of the number of reports of something.
Well, and then we have to remember as well, I mean, shipbuilding still takes place on the Pascagona River.
So it was taking place at the time, but they also built, you know, United States Navy vessels.
So it was, parts of it were, well, use inverted commas, a sensitive area, you know, because of the military hardware that they were building.
That opens up a whole can of worms as to whether something, as we've seen through history, might have been interested in whatever was going on there that was perhaps fairly secret or very secret.
That adds a whole other dimension to the whole thing, doesn't it, Philip?
Well, it does.
And I think that's possibly why when the Coast Guard reported it to the Navy, they sent someone out to have a look.
And there is newspaper articles saying that the Navy are going to prepare a full report on the incident.
Oh, really?
But we've never been able to find one.
Well, I wonder if somebody's got that somewhere.
Philip, listen, I'm sorry to close you down just at this point, but we're out of time for talk radio.
The book is called Beyond Reasonable Doubt, The Pascagoula Alien Abduction, Philip Mantle, Irina McCammon, Scott Ph.D., with a foreword by Calvin Parker.
Is this out now, Philip?
It's not out now.
It comes out September the 1st, but, you know, it's worth waiting for.
Well, I've got it in my hot little hand here, and I can tell my audience it absolutely is.
Thank you very much to John and to Mark for working on this show, an unusual edition because it's on the radio.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained on the Radio.
This conversation that I'm having now continues on my podcast of theunexplained.tv.
So we continue with the conversation with Philip Mantle here, having left the radio listeners behind, Philip, and now joining us on the podcast at theunexplained.tv.
Whole bunch of reports here, whole list of names.
I was rather taken by the account of Gloria Proctor, who was on her university campus in Mississippi, says, at first I thought it was the Goodyear blimp, because they had those in America at that time.
Huge oval kind of cigar-shaped thing with chaser lights to it.
That wasn't the longest account in the book, but I liked it.
Well, again, it's another fascinating account.
And again, I think Mrs. Proctor made a small comment about it on a Facebook thread.
And, you know, I jumped on it.
As simple as that, Howard.
I mean, we were literally getting things or finding things on a regular basis.
And I don't like to say this, but a lot of the witnesses are coming to that age where maybe they won't be around much longer.
I'll give you an example of that.
I don't know what year it was, but it was on the run into Christmas and Calvin Parker was in a local shop.
And somebody approached him.
Oh, Mr. Parker, yeah.
And Calvin vaguely knew this chap.
He said, I saw the thing that night.
So Calvin says, well, why don't we wait until Christmas is out of the way and I'll come back and have a chat with you.
So the fellow said, great.
Sadly, he never made it past Christmas.
So what I was set out to do was that no matter what, we would record and document as many eyewitness accounts that came our way simply because, you know, we may not have the opportunity again for a variety of reasons.
Some people may get cold feet, for example.
But other people, it's just going to be the March of Times Webachari.
Exactly.
You've got an account from Maria Taylor York, who I think at the time was at Pascagoula, thought it was an airplane or helicopter that she'd experienced, but it stopped, which ruled out a plane.
Then it dawned on me, she says, that helicopters are noisy, and this was not making any noise.
And both of these flyers had more than one light.
I was mesmerized.
It just hovered there.
Then it suddenly zipped back behind the trees.
I mean, that's just one account.
Yeah, and on they go, Howard.
You know, take your pick, you know, and...
Rod Duncan was 10 at the time.
Rod Duncan traveling with his grandmother along, is it Nance Ford Road, going from her home in Hartshell, Alabama.
You see, not all of these accounts, although they are around that time, not all of these accounts are specifically in Pascagoula, Mississippi.
They are sometimes hundreds of miles away.
Rod Duncan thought it was October 17th.
That was the same day as a man called Sheriff John Greenhaw was contacted by an individual to report that a spaceship with lights had landed in the pasture near her house.
Greenhaw took Polaroid pictures of an associated being.
But bringing it back to Rod Duncan, I think Rod's, is it Rod's mother ran dog kennels and had accounted, this is a fascinating twist on this tale.
His mother ran some dog kennels and a couple of days beforehand had seen a small, quotes, childlike figure by the dogs.
It looked like about a 10-year-old child and I think it just disappeared.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, absolutely.
And in amongst these other eyewitnesses, Howard, there's a wide variety of different types of sightings, different areas.
But, you know, we say Alabama, I mean, we think a couple of hundred miles is a long way.
But when you're in the United States, a couple of hundred miles is a short drive for them.
I gave you an example.
You know, we spoke about Joanne Hallmark.
She now lives in Maryland.
I have no idea where that is.
But I was speaking with a colleague just the other day about it.
He lives in the States, and he says, that's about three and a half hours from me.
If you want me to go and interview, I will do.
And he says, well, that's a long drive.
He says, that's nothing.
He says, I've driven from one side of the States to the other, three and a half hours.
He's absolutely nothing.
But we could have done with him at the time living in Mississippi, I can assure you, because people were either stepping forward or we managed to.
They did just make a little brief comment somewhere, and I'd be on them.
And what we also did, of course, we documented interviews with Calvin's wife, Waynette, and she could confirm how the encounter had such a detrimental effect on him and his health and his mental health.
And of course, we also interviewed Eddie Hickson, the son of the late Charles Hickson.
And when we spoke to Eddie, for example, he said, my mother was more scared than my father.
Was she scared of men in black turning up the fact that information was too hot to handle?
No, she was just frightened that it would happen again.
And Charlie served in the army.
He fought in Korea and was involved in several large battles.
So, you know, I mean, Calvin was the tough guy.
This is one of the reasons why Calvin had such a difficulty with it.
He was not the kind of, he was a nice guy, don't get me wrong, but he's not the kind of guy you wanted to pick a fight with.
And he was used to being in control.
And when this happened, of course, he's not in control.
He lost complete control of everything.
And he wasn't able to fight back.
And like I said, he was terrified that his father-in-law would say, you're not marrying my Dorsey in that case.
He did.
What we haven't put in the book, not a lot of people know, is Calvin actually joined the Royal Marines shortly afterwards.
He came out.
He went into hospital.
He came out.
He joined the Marines, not necessarily because he wanted to be a Marine, but he was sick of the press hounding him.
And he thought, if I join the Marines, I'll get away from it.
He spent approximately a year in the Marines when, lo and behold, the media did catch up with him.
And he had a word with his commanding officer.
And he advised him it might be best for him to leave with an honorable discharge, which he did.
And I don't know if you remember the 1980s TV series of The Hulk.
I do.
With Dr. Bruce Banner who would enlarge significantly and turn green.
Yeah, but there was a journalist kept trying to track him down.
And every time he almost found him, he would move on to the next town.
That's exactly what Calvin did.
Exactly.
And he had a wife and family with him by this time.
He even changed his name.
Not by deed, Paul.
He just used a false name.
And he got fired at one job because when they checked his social security number, didn't come up with that name.
You know, so it had a very...
If you are, I'm sorry, I've jumped in.
So this had a very...
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, at one point, he phoned the insurance company, I got life insurance, and he said, am I covered for suicide?
And they said, no.
So he went to a cowboy bar, picked a fight with six cowboys in the hope that they would kill him.
Good lord.
And they didn't.
They knocked seven bells out of him, Howard, but they didn't kill him.
A movie needs to be made about him.
Well, we have a screenplay professionally written by movie screenwriters written.
It's all there, sat there.
We even have a four-part drama series written as well.
The movie doesn't go into too much of the effect it had on Calvin because there's a lot of stories to tell about it, but the TV drama series does.
So because it gives me, you know, more time.
So they're both available.
Of course, they're all on strike.
You know, these Bolshevik movie people over in Hollywood, how dare they go on strike?
Well, I take it you're saying that in a humorous way, just for our listeners around the world.
British humor is something that not every country of the world necessarily gets, I understand.
Cindy Porterfield, among the many witnesses, will never get to all of them here.
I like this one.
Long Beach, Mississippi, October 73, saw a large UFO descending at a slant at treetop level.
It landed in the Molloy's Yard.
She and another person were in an area between the Molloy's Yard and the abduction site.
It came out in the newspapers.
They reported it and everything.
She said, there had been quite a few UFO sightings on the same weekend as the reported Pascagoula abduction.
And even apparently the person who came to tune their piano, it turned out, had experienced something himself.
Well, exactly.
And that shows what we've been talking about here, Howard, where you briefly mention something about what happened that night.
And lo and behold, somebody else will crop up and say, oh, I didn't know that.
I saw it too.
And here you have a similar situation with one of the witnesses.
And this time it's her piano tuner.
And what is interesting, we mentioned that there's a documentary being produced.
We just managed to interview Mrs. Hill, Cindy Pawsyfield Hill.
She was the last witness to be interviewed for the documentary.
I mean, the documentary team were over there last September filming, and these details had not long come in.
And I sent them to the producer saying, well, you know, this has just come in.
It might be another interesting account, slightly different from the others, to get in.
And they did.
And of course, the photograph we use in the book was one that was actually taken by the production company.
So we didn't even have a photograph of her at that time.
But yeah, I mean, you know yourself, Howard.
You go down to any gathering of people and you bring up this subject.
And I guarantee there'll be somebody else within that gathering that said, oh, yeah, I'm interested in that.
Or I've seen something like that many years ago.
And this case is no different.
It really isn't.
And like I said, I haven't got time to go into all of the accounts, which is why people have to get the book to see them.
But, you know, you've got people like Lynn Wyckoff Stover, worked at a shipyard in Pascagoula.
Quotes, it was silver, gray, silver.
I saw, here it comes again, blue somewhere.
And she thought it was doing about 50 or 60 miles an hour, but it was hard to estimate.
That's just one person.
There is Dale, this is a woman, Dale Ulmer, traveling east on Pineville Road when all of a sudden a bluish white light illuminated all around my dad's car, even to the ditches where there were open fields on the other side of us.
That was impactful.
Gloria Sork, which was two days before the 11th of October on the 9th, a blue light shined through this porthole.
She thought it was the prettiest shade of blue she'd ever seen, and the object witnessed had, quotes, a dome on top.
And, you know, there's a ton of other material.
Yeah, and on you go.
And what we have done for the first time properly at the back of the book is to ask people who have any information or eyewitnesses to actually step forward and give them a variety of ways that they can contact me.
What is also interesting, a bit of science here as well, Howard, and we've not touched on it yet, but my colleague, Dr. Irina Scott, has got PhDs and degrees and a whole number of things.
On that night of October the 11th, 1973, she was away from home.
She lives in Ohio and she still lives on the family premises, but she was away studying for a PhD.
And her mum phoned her and she said, there has been this huge sonic boom.
And apparently this sonic boom went halfway across the United States.
And it was the same night that this incident happened.
So in later years, Dr. Scott decided to look into this to see if she could find a rational explanation for this sonic boom.
And she's not been able to do so.
I mean, she's gone to universities and so on, checked this, check that.
For example, a jet aircraft, when it breaks the sound barrier and issues a sonic boom, you can normally hear the boom from it in about a two-mile radius, depending on the altitude it's flying at.
And I've heard the sonic boom.
We had two jets go over here one night and it jumped out of my skin.
Obviously, the higher they go in altitude, the less distance you can hear it because the atmosphere is that much thinner.
This thing, whatever it was, went halfway across the United States.
Now, is the connected to the Pascagoula case?
Don't know.
Well, there was something, like I said at the beginning of this, about 1973.
If you go back through ufology, there was an uptick around the Roswell period.
There was an uptick around the 1950s when there were UFOs reported over Washington, D.C. And there was a spate of, there were a spate of things that happened around 73.
And I'm sure there have been other periods where there have been clusters of cases.
So, Seb, there was something about 1973, and the full story, I think, has yet to emerge.
We haven't got a ton of time, unfortunately, but I'm glad we've been able to extend this conversation on the podcast, Philip.
But you are prolific.
I don't know how you fit all of this into your life, to be honest with you, but fair play to you that you do, and thank you.
Any highlights of books that are coming up?
If you can just give me a minute or two on things that you've got due for release.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's funny you should mention 1973 because Kevin Randall, whom I've already published several books for, has a book called 1973, the year of UFOs and alien abductions.
And it is about all the other things that happened in 1973.
He briefly mentions it, mentions the Pascagoula case in it, but he's concentrating more on what happened elsewhere.
We've done a chapter on it.
He's done a whole book on it.
So that will be out October the 1st.
As we speak, although I haven't written this, I have contributed to it.
There is a graphic novel coming out about Pascagoula, and it's called UFO, The Closest Encounter.
It's written by Martin Powell, illustrated by Jason Gleves, published by Moonstone Books.
That'll be out anytime now.
August the 1st, you know, Malcolm Robinson, Paranormal Case Files of the United Kingdom, Volume 4.
Oh, I must get a copy of that one.
And on they go, and on they go, Howard.
Philip, well, you know, I think you're doing great work, and this must make you the foremost publisher of books in this genre, which is something that you, because you started this as your own enterprise, you must be very proud of that.
I gave up the day job to concentrate.
I also suffered from ill health, so I was probably after going to give up the day job anyway.
But it was nice that I had this to fall back on.
It's more fun, isn't it?
Keep myself occupied and not have the wife put me under the patio, you know what I mean?
There's another screenplay.
We've been talking about beyond reasonable doubt, the Pascagoula alien abduction, Philip Mantle, Irina McCammon, Scott, PhD, forward by Calvin Parker out September.
Check out details of that and all of the other books at Flying Disc with a Press K Books.
Just put it into a search engine.
It will pop up in front of your very eyes.
Philip Mantle, thank you very much indeed.
My pleasure, Howard.
My thanks to Philip Mantle.
Thank you very much to you for being part of this.
You've just heard an extended version of the conversation that was on radio on the last Sunday as you'll probably be hearing this.
That show is hopefully going to be back on television within days from when you're hearing this.
But until next, we meet here online.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained.
And please stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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