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July 2, 2023 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:05:45
Edition 736 - Christopher Jordan
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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes, and this is The Unexplained.
Well, we are living in the most incredible times.
You know, another, by the looks of it on the way, boiling hot summer.
Coming to London, we've got a little bit of a respite in it.
Some cloudier weather, but it's still very close here, and they're telling us that we might be sailing within a couple of weeks to 40 degrees centigrade Celsius, whatever you want to call it again, which is ridiculously hot.
And we're just not equipped for it here in London.
So, you know, it's either one thing or the other, swings and roundabouts, isn't it?
I've either got ice on the insides of my window, like I had a few months ago here, which I've never had before, or we've got baking temperatures that are just impossible to endure.
God, that's what's going to be coming next.
Who knows?
I get this feeling, just diverting completely, that we're in a world where something amazing is about to happen.
I do not know what it is.
I don't know whether it's ufological disclosure, the statement that aliens have always been visiting us and we've been back engineering.
I don't know whether that's what's coming.
I just kind of feel that pensive, coiled spring feeling that something is going to happen this summer.
Maybe towards the end of it.
Let's see if I'm right.
I may be completely wrong.
Who knows?
We may just be going down a series of blind alleys again.
Okay, guest on this edition, and thank you very much to my webmaster, Adam, as ever.
Okay, guest on this edition of The Unexplained, Chris Jordan.
This man is a musician and a man with an interest in sound.
This is going to be a very different conversation, and the person who recommended Chris to me spoke very highly of him.
And I think the stuff we're going to discuss is very, very interesting.
A lot of ancient civilizations, we understand, understood the purposes of, the uses of, the benefits of sound, perhaps more than we do.
So we're going to talk all about that with Chris Jordan, some of whose music I understand has been likened to the likes of Kraftwerk.
I don't know whether you're like me, but I remember buying Auto Bahn when I was a kid with my pocket money and just being amazed that music like that was being made.
Of course, look what happened to Kraftwerk.
I think they're still around.
Okay, what have I got to do?
Theunexplained.tv is my website.
If you want to send me a message, please go there.
You can email me from there.
If you would like to make a donation to The Unexplained, that would be great.
And I understand from Carolyn that there's a thing called the British Podcast or British Podcasting Awards.
And apparently, there is a listener's award in this.
I don't know anything about it.
And she's recommended that I ask you to vote for this show.
Well, if you think it's worth it, then please, please do that.
But I always think about awards.
The people in the podcasting world who win them are those who have podcasts with a lot of resources behind them.
Maybe it's their full-time job.
They generate advertising income and stuff like that.
And they have more resources to get themselves out there and visible than I have.
But I just thought I'd pass that along and thank you, Carolyn, for mentioning that to me.
I might put a little reference to that on my Facebook page, the official Facebook page of The Unexplained with Howard Hughes.
I think that's all I've got to say.
If you get in touch with me, don't forget to tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
Okay, in the gathering heat of the day, let's connect now with Chris Jordan, and we're going to talk about sound.
Chris, thank you for coming on my show.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having me.
Hey, listen, we've got fairly baking, fairly close temperatures here in London, have had for weeks now, and it looks like it's going to be even worse.
You're in Austin, Texas.
What's it like there?
It is insanely hot.
I mean, we're pretty used to the heat, though.
We typically have at least a week or so of over 100.
We're looking at almost a month of over 100 degree temperatures.
But you guys over there, I feel for y'all.
How do you see?
Look, I know how you cope in places that are really tropical, okay?
They have aircon and all that kind of stuff.
We have none of that in London.
Do you have things that help you?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
No, I've got air conditioning.
I've got ceiling fans, all that kind of stuff.
But that's just it.
Like in London, you, I mean, yeah, there isn't a whole lot of air conditioning to be had, things like that.
So it's rough for you guys, man.
I don't know.
I don't know if I could handle it.
Let me put it that way.
Like, I lived in Maine for many years and they always laughed whenever we would have hurricanes down here.
Like, how do you deal with that?
I'm like, that's funny.
Whenever we see a blizzard, we're like, my God, how do you deal with that?
You know?
I remember going to Portland, Maine, and staying there overnight once.
I went up on the Down Easter train, which is like a 1930s, amazing train that runs out of Boston.
Absolutely.
It's a great one.
I used to get down to Boston, Logan on the Down Easter all the time.
And the train station there, you go out into the car park and it almost looks like you've arrived at the train station for Walton's Mountain.
It's very folksy and very nice.
I had a lovely time in Portland.
People were very welcoming.
It was a beautiful city.
And, you know, it's funny whenever people used to ask me about Austin all the time, oh, you know, what's it like in Austin?
I'm like, it's a lot like Portland, just without the ocean view.
Or indeed the fishing trawlers.
Okay, let's talk about sound and music first off, because you're a music guy.
You're based in Texas, where some of the world's best musicians come from.
They do all sorts of productions there because it just so happens I think they have at least one university producing them, probably a number.
What's your background in music that brings you to the things that we're about to discuss?
Well, originally, I am an audio and video engineer.
So for many years, I experimented, did recording, did home recording, things like that, wrote my own acoustic music, all kinds of things.
But when it comes to the music I'm making now, I really heavily, heavily pull on my engineering background as opposed to my, I guess, per se, music background.
Well, now that that's interesting, and I kind of think I know roughly where you're coming from.
Are you saying that the technical aspects of the recording are very, very important?
It's not just a question of sticking a microphone in front of somebody, it's the way that you actually do it.
Because they used to say, for example, the great sound of Motown records was achieved because they assigned, and the fact that they have such an emotional impact on your heart, you know, river, deep, mountain, high, all of that stuff, is because of the way that they recorded the instruments.
Apparently, every instrument was assigned its own frequency band.
And that was part of the way that the Motown sound was achieved.
Same with Phil Spectrum, his wall of sound.
He did something similar.
So is that kind of what you've been doing?
Yes, yes, very much so.
Because in my acoustic music and my regular singer-songwriting, it's much more, you're dealing with much more melody and harmony, you know, and where those things lie in a mix, where those things lie and where it takes a song and what sonic journey that song is taking you on.
You know, like, okay, where does the bridge come in?
Whereas opposed to my electronic music in this realm with meditation music, frequency meditation, things like that, it's much more playing with sonics and sound and where those are placed, how those are used together and how they are utilized to emotively move somebody.
And possibly even potentially heal them or make them feel better.
Oh, sure, sure.
And, you know, what's really funny, Howard, is that when I first started in the world of electronic music, I did a lot of avant-garde composition for many, many years and still do a lot of very experimental stuff.
The way I explain it to people is imagine watching a sci-fi or horror movie without words.
And all you have is the soundtracking and some sound effects.
That can be what some of my avant-garde experimental stuff is like.
But that is where I really first started playing with the idea of binaural beats and using raw frequencies in the background of my music.
I used them subliminally to enhance that side of the music that people would be like, ooh, that piece was really eerie and like gave me goosebumps.
It made me feel weird inside.
It was like, oh, cool.
Awesome.
Isn't that strange?
Because years and years ago, and here comes another one of my radio stories that maybe my listener will want to turn off, but I was working at the biggest entertainment radio station in London.
I was on the Morning Drive show doing the news there, but we were a big zoo format team, you know, rather like Howard Stern and his team, but not quite as edgy as Howard Stern in those days.
But we had 3 million listeners in London at our peak.
And they used to involve me in important things.
Like, for example, they were remixing the top of the hour jingle.
Now, if you listen to a radio station, I don't know whether they still do it to that same degree, but radio stations used to have, this is the authentic voice of the Great Lakes, you know, on 1549 killer or whatever, you know, 1550 killer.
Top of the hour ID, the biggest, most important thing.
We were remixing the capital ident, and it was a big musical thing, and the guy said, this is 95.8, capital FM, London, down there like that.
And there was something missing.
The reason I'm telling this story is that there was something missing from the sound, even though the jingle was great.
And I said, why don't you find me an explosion?
And let's subliminally mix the explosion under the jingle at the bit where he says 95.8, capital FM, London.
And just at that moment, you have, but not in a way that you can hear it.
And if you listen back to that thing now, you can still hear the explosion.
And I am convinced that the emotional impact of an explosion that you couldn't hear consciously added to the impact of that jingle.
Yeah.
Oh, absolutely.
It set a point where the jingle ended, where the person's voice started.
It set a moment of impact.
And even if inaudibly there in the mix, once again, your brain does magnificent and amazing things, Howie, with the way it decodes information.
Our brains are little pattern machines.
And whether it's video, whether it's colors, paintings, audio, our brain strives to hear a pattern.
It strives to find a pattern.
And that is a lot of what binaural beats and the technology of binaural beats that the Monroe Institute came up with many, many years ago really relies upon is the fact that our brain strives for that pattern.
And yeah, if you can give it something that is familiar, it'll gladly learn something to go along with it.
Sound, our senses are huge memory triggers, sound and smell specifically.
So like you said, that moving moment of the explosion, and even to go back and listen to it now makes you feel that same feeling that you felt at the top of the hour in 85.
You know, I interviewed some years ago, only on a cell phone because they were on tour in the UK, but I interviewed Mike Love from The Beach Boys.
It was only a quick interview, and I didn't really get much into, you know, the, we were talking more about the show they were going to do, and I didn't get much into talking about pet sounds, but I always believed that pet sounds, possibly the greatest album of all time, mixed by the greatest genius obsessive about sound and obsessive about music, Brian Wilson.
I always felt that that worked on a level that was much beyond just the tracks themselves.
There was something within that sound.
If I hear Brian Wilson singing, you know, When I hear him, it's terrible, so I mustn't sing.
But whenever I hear him sing that, it moves me in a way that I cannot explain.
And it's not just the link back to the time.
There is something to do with the actual sound of those songs.
So I think they were using music and the beats and the frequencies in the ways that you're describing.
Oh, absolutely.
And really, I mean, huge, huge thanks to the Beach Boys.
I get a lot of gut from a lot of people because I'm a bigger Beach Boys fan than I am a Beatles fan.
Me too.
They're like, I'm from Liverpool, and how can I say that?
As a musician, how could you say that?
I'm like, I'm not saying that as a musician.
I'm saying that as an engineer.
No, I completely agree.
You know, I've got that, just behind me, I've got that box set of CDs where they break down the way that Pet Sounds was made.
And I've met Paul McCartney, right?
And I'm from Liverpool, and I still pretty much prefer The Beach Boys.
Isn't that awful for a Liverpool to say?
Well, you know, for me, it's once again about the engineering and to know that a lot of what we have as far as multi-track recording, the way that multi-track was first being utilized goes right back to Pet Sounds, goes right back to The Beach Boys.
A lot of that was really innovated right there.
So yeah, they were playing with subtle pitch shifts with the tape in certain spots.
They were playing with subtleties and panning of the sound finally instead of just here's a mono track stacked on top of a mono track.
You know?
And it was just things like their use of the, and we will get into the binaural beats in seconds.
Oh, sure, sure.
Because my listeners will be saying, oh, there's just two old guys talking about music, which is, well, old guy in my case.
But, you know, they did all sorts of stuff that hadn't been done before, like the way they used the bass harmonica and all of those things.
And the, what was that thing that they used in, it wasn't a zither.
What was that thing called that went like the theremin?
The theremin, thank you.
Yeah, that's what they used.
And, you know, that hadn't been used in records before.
And all of that stuff has an emotional impact, which brings us to your work with frequencies and the way that those frequencies perhaps take us all the way back to the ancients and how they understood those things in a way that we're only just coming to understand them.
Oh, absolutely.
We are just now, and I wouldn't say just now.
I mean, we're just now starting to understand a lot of what the ancient cultures understood when it comes to frequencies, cycles, things like that, hertz rates.
We are constantly finding standing waves, things like that, in temple complexes where if you hit a resonant frequency, things will vibrate and move you and create different brain waves inside of your brain.
Basically, the same technology that we're using in binaural beats.
The concept is called entrainment in physics.
And entrainment basically operates off the principle of if you take two pendulums and swing them opposite ways, eventually they'll sink up.
And then they'll fall out of sync and then they'll sink up again.
Same way if you start walking on your left and I start walking on my right and we're both walking down the hallway, we will eventually sink up.
Once again, there's that pattern that your brain wants to find.
It wants to syncopate with that.
And the more you expose your brain wave to a pattern, let's say delta waves, the more readily your brain will produce delta waves when in the situation that it produces them.
Same thing with theta waves, alpha waves for creativity.
These have been used for meditation, all sorts of things for many, many years.
When I think about binaural, there was a great fad for so-called binaural sound.
I think in the end of the 1970s, and I think JVC was one of the companies that worked extensively in binaural.
And the idea of the word binaural, I always took as a teenager to mean that's the kind of sound that's right inside your head.
So they would have these binaural recording things that looked like human heads, and they'd stick microphones in them, and they'd say, this thing can record exactly like you hear.
Yeah.
So is that the sense in which you're using binaural?
Well, there are those heads.
They still exist.
They're still crazy expensive, too, to get an actual binaural microphone dummy head like that.
I use a lot of stereo recording whenever I'm out in the field.
A lot of my stuff does incorporate live in the field recording, things like crickets, frogs, babbling brooks, those kind of things.
So there is that realm of the engineering involved with it.
But when it comes to binaural, basically what I am using is a raw frequency tone or range of frequency tones to help accentuate brain activity.
So what happens is you've got one frequency in your right ear and an offset frequency from that in the left ear.
And when played together, they actually create a wobble between the left and right of the frequency tone that you are trying to, it's basically a summed frequency of the two being put together.
And I can hear my listener, I'm familiar with all of this stuff, and I don't know as much about it as I need to.
And you're going to fill me in, but I can hear my listeners.
Where the shark eyes happen.
The eyes roll back in the head.
As our speaking clock on the telephone used to say precisely.
So the question I'm sure that they want to ask is: all right, well, if you have these offset frequencies, one in each ear, how's that helping?
Basically, what happens is your hemispheres of your brain begin to syncopate with the frequencies themselves.
So they will start to actively create and generate the frequency that it is hearing.
And it can do that whether the frequency is embedded under music by itself, what have you.
Once again, your brain is a pretty amazing decoding machine.
So to be able to subliminally bury these tones behind music, things like that, make for a good meditative environment.
But you can also use them.
They've shown underbed tones being used in burn wards, things like that, all sorts of things for additional rapid healing.
It's pretty remarkable.
I have tinnithus, and you may know that tinnitus is ringing in the ears.
I'm so sorry.
A lot of my listeners have it too.
I've been through a great journey over 10 years with it.
I started out with a condition called hyperceosis, which means you jump 10 feet in the air in pain if you hear loud sounds.
More recently, a year ago almost, at a studio that I was working in, there was a sound accident that made it all much worse.
And I've had to live with that.
And I've learned, or I am learning to live with it.
You know, you can function.
I've mentioned it now.
I can hear it now that I've mentioned it.
But if I tune it out and zone it out, my brain will do that for me.
But the interesting thing is, and the reason I'm talking about this, is that the brain creates tinnitus.
If you have damage that is caused by excessive noise or, you know, maybe you had a virus or something like that affected your hearing mechanism, then your brain is doing you a favor.
If you've lost a certain number of, if you've lost, I don't know, seven kilohertz, eight kilohertz, what's the frequency of speech?
Is that eight kilohertz, I think, something like that, one of the main frequencies of speech.
If you've lost a little bit of that, your brain says, can't hear that as much as we did.
I know what I'm going to do.
I'm going to give you that permanently.
And I'll give you that exact frequency tone forever so that you haven't lost anything.
Aren't I good?
Says the brain.
So the brain is an enormously powerful and influential thing.
And I think if we could find a tonal way of harmonizing and chiming in with the brain in the way that you're discussing, then I think, and a lot of my, the reason I'm talking about this, a lot of my listeners email me to say, I've got it too.
If you could find a way of doing that with your binaural beats and getting the tone that is within our heads to chime with it, I think you will have achieved something big.
That is an incredible project.
And I just wrote that down on my little manifestation board here on the desk.
I have never even considered doing such things.
But quite literally, what you're discussing is no different than the concept of noise-canceling headphones.
No different than the audio circuits that they put in extraordinarily high-class automobiles like high-end BMWs, things like that, that actively have microphones outside that listen to sound and reverse it softly through your speaker so that you don't hear the rumble of the engine.
So-called phase cancellation.
And I know that's not entirely what you've been doing.
And I promise my listener that I'm going to shut up talking and let you talk about the ways that you've been using the binaural beats.
Well, it's an interesting application, though.
And that once again is the pliability of the brain and the way that it will readily use and produce frequencies.
Like you said, because you're missing that frequency now, it's like, oh, I happen to notice you're missing that range.
Here you go.
I used to have my hearing tested every year through an amazing program here in Austin and come to find out through my testing that my left ear had a strange 1 dB dip at specifically 1 kilohertz.
They were like, it's really weird.
You've got this like one to 3 dB variation in your left ear that you don't hear 1K as well in that ear as you do your right ear.
They were like, other than that, your range, your response is amazing.
and then i told them that i was a broadcast engineer and lived with a comm set on my left ear that had a 1k test tone blasted through it before we went live i was going to say that that is precisely you know i think that's kind of it's about it's about that used to come on at the And you get, you know, the night, the announcer would say, now on BBC One, we're closing down for the night.
Please don't forget to switch your television off.
And just in case you've forgotten to switch your TV off and you might create a fire, they put on that one kilohertz test time.
So look, they're the things that we're talking about.
What are the applications that you've been examining for this, the binaural beats and the way that you've been deploying them?
The way I have been deploying them is basically in an attempt to help people meditate and relax.
Like, for instance, I am ADHD.
My brain is probably about as busied as you can get.
But being able to listen to music softly in the background for a couple hours while I work during the day with meditative frequencies and tones behind it, it actively helps soothe and calm that.
One of the tracks that I made a long time ago, Poor Erad Somnum, I actively made for Pregnant mothers for helping the fetus rest while they sleep, things like that.
And it played in my son's room for probably about the first two, three years of his life on repeat.
It's pretty remarkable what you can do once you start exposing your brain to the world of raw frequencies and even embedded frequencies and things.
And we're so scientific these days, we think we're discovering stuff all the time and we're too cool for school.
But for example, my Hindu friends will tell you the power of going, ohm, you know.
Oh, absolutely.
And the power of chanting.
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, even my latest album that I just came out with, Pranothana, is a chakra meditation album.
And each track incorporates, there are seven tracks on it.
Each one is for one of the chakras, and each one incorporates not only the pure tone of the chakra, but the binaural beat of that tone of the chakra.
So our whole body and the whole universe operates in a range of frequencies.
If you look at a chart of the electromagnetic spectrum, what we see and hear actively lies in the same range of the spectrum.
And it's pretty remarkable when you stop and think about that, that your ears are doing the same job as your eyes, that you can actually hear the tone of the color red.
So that's kind of the same way that chakras work is that you are trying to focus on that chakra, that chakra is ruled by that vibration and that color.
Apart from putting us into a meditative state or making us feel more relaxed that I don't doubt these tones and the music associated with them can do.
What else can you achieve, do you think?
Oh, you can use them in the background while you are studying.
They have been shown to actively help people absorb information faster, help people retain information more.
If you're listening to binaural beats while studying, once again, you can help increase your creative spurts.
You can help even increase things like astral travel, things like that.
If you are into transcendental meditation, that kind of stuff.
I'm pretty lousy.
I'm going to do some frequencies that will help encourage your brain toward release of such things.
I'm pretty, I'm sorry I've jumped in there, but I'm pretty lousy at meditating.
People have tried to teach me, and I just, my brain, like your brain, is way too active for that, and I find it very hard to do.
Could the use of sound help me to get into states that would perhaps show me if there are other dimensions and other things?
Could that be facilitated?
Could that happen?
Yes.
That is precisely it.
Once again, our eyes and our ears both are working off of vibrations.
So once you get your brain tuned, yes, the world of lucid dreaming can be opened up.
The world of even programmed and intented dreaming, being able to go to sleep with intent, to find answers to things, things like that.
Once you get to the point of actual relaxation and rest when you're sleeping, as opposed to just there's a couple of things that your brain does while you sleep.
Number one, dream, which is a remarkable thing to begin with.
But we have to remember that dreams are basically our unprocessed reality.
We go through 90% of our day in a hypnotic state.
And people typically don't realize that.
While you're at work, sitting at your desk doing your work, like you're in a hypnotic state.
You are in a state of rote habit.
Well, while you're processing TPS reports, whatever, at your desk, unless you're on the phone and having a sales conversation and even some of that, if you're into that world and into the world of repetitive sales, things like that, you can absolutely get into a trance while you're having a conversation.
I completely, I totally believe you because my shows, my television show and this podcast, the TV show in particular takes an awful lot.
Nobody else is going to help me with it.
It takes an awful lot of preparation, note making, reading stuff, doing stuff, organizing stuff.
I've always got my nose in front of a computer.
It's probably not good for me.
But I find, in ways that I don't understand, I can start to put together the notes for my Sunday show, and I do it in a couple of sessions, and each one takes a few hours to do.
I find that if I sit down on a Friday, Friday is my production day and Saturday as well, mainly, but there's work for the show all the way through the week.
But I can lose two or three hours, and I can look at the clock, and I started at 9.30, and somehow it's 1 p.m.
So some kind of, I always think that I'm in some kind of zonal trance at that point.
Yep.
Yep.
I tell my wife, my wife will sometimes go, you didn't come to bed last night.
What time did you get to bed?
I'll be like, ah, about 3 a.m.
Because I'll get into coding website or something like that, like coding WordPress.
And I just get in zone and things just flow and they're going.
And I look at the clock and it's like, whoa, well, there went four and a half hours.
You know, same thing whenever you're driving home from work, whenever you're driving down streets and paths that you take on a regular basis.
We regularly drive down those in an oddly hypnotic state, you know, because it becomes such a karate-like route habit that you don't have to think about your route home from work.
You probably don't even have to think about your alternate route if there's traffic.
I used to panic on a Saturday.
I used to have to get up.
God knows why I did it.
It certainly definitely wasn't the money, but I used to do a Saturday morning breakfast show on the BBC station for Berkshire, which is like where Windsor Castle is and all of those places.
And it's not too far from where I live.
I used to have to get up at about 4.30 on Saturday morning, go down to the car at 5, then join the M4 motorway near Heathrow Airport, and then just drive to Reading where this radio station was.
And I would panic sometimes when I got there because I would find that I'd forgotten.
And this is, I don't know how this ties into binaural beats and all the rest of it, but I would somehow find that by the time I got to Reading to do my show, a lot of the journey I'd simply forgotten.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's just it.
To loop this back to our conversation about binaural beats, once again, our brain strives and wants that pattern.
It wants that regularity.
It wants to be able to just autonomously take care of you, Howard.
That's its job.
You don't have to think about breathing.
It just does it for you.
Okay, well, then it would like to do a lot of things for you if you'd let it.
Now, exactly, exactly, precisely.
There I am jumping in again, but that's exactly the point of this.
Yeah.
Do you believe that, and it sounds like your work is at a kind of embryonic stage where you're going to discover more stuff, that these tones, these sounds, are the keys to a lot of things?
Oh, absolutely.
The tones themselves are the roots of everything, the roots of music itself.
Once again, each note, even on the musical scale, has a color attached to it.
And all of these things are related.
When you go back and you look at ancient temples, once again, even the concept of chakras and each chakra having a tone attached to it and each chakra having a color, it's pretty remarkable to know that that system has been around for thousands of years.
That is not something that came around when we discovered the electromagnetic spectrum and discovered the auditory tone for the color red.
Temples around the world have been built with resonant frequencies in mind.
One of my favorites is Roslyn Chapel in Scotland.
Yeah, it is.
There is a piece of music out there called the Rosslyn Motet that was written.
And inside the chapel, underneath all of these angel heads are geometric patterns, kind of like solfeggio frequencies.
If you're into the world of cymatics, you know, the idea of a vibration, a tone can be carried through a medium and become visible like sand or cornstarch or water.
If you put a speaker underneath the tank of water and then tune it to the note C, you'll actually start to see the water vibrate in the shape of that note.
And around the chapel are all of these little geometric patterns that actively line up with notes on the musical scale.
So what is it do you think?
And I'm glad that you brought the subject of Rosslyn Chapel, where there is claimed to be a portal where you might be able to travel to other places.
It's not the easiest place to go and explore because I think the people who look after the site guard it pretty jealously.
But nevertheless, it has been studied.
What do you think the people who designed that knew?
You know, when it comes to especially folks like the Templars, who, of course, are hugely accredited with a lot of things in Rosslyn, they came back with some incredible ancient knowledge, with knowledge of a lot of things.
And when you look at them, they were much more almost an alchemical and esoteric society than a monastic order come the end of things.
They had been exposed to a lot of truths, I think, and come across a lot of teachings such as Kabbalah, which is where a lot of frequency work, things like that, in accordance with the tree of life comes in.
And the whole idea of words themselves being powerful that we resonate the universe when we speak.
So there is a lot of truth in what people say sometimes, and I believe this.
Sometimes it's not just what you say, it's the way that you say it.
I want to get you onto something that you're very keen, I know, to speak about.
That is the effect of frequency shifting, which is kind of what we were talking about, on so-called paranormality.
I'm just wondering whether you believe, for example, as some people, if you watched Close Encounters of the Third Kind, for example, they talked about the five tones as being part of the connection process between us and whatever that thing landing was.
Do you believe that there is reality in that?
Yes.
Yes.
I have a firm belief that there is reality in that.
And also with the fact of, you know, we are more than more one of the Nobel Prize this last year, Howard, went to quantum entanglement.
The idea that two particles unrelated can be entangled via distance and can be influenced by a distance.
That I could have a particle in a lab over here, you could have a particle in a lab over there, and we could entangle them together despite that distance.
This is something that people have spoken about for years and years.
It's something that has been spoken about when you talk about worlds like remote viewing, ESP, telekinesis.
It's remarkable to see science catching up to what ancient cultures have talked about for thousands of years.
These things that we have considered, quote, mythical powers.
Interesting that it's possible.
It's possible.
And I mentioned remote viewing because it was a laser scientist, Hal Putoff, who wrote a paper many years ago saying that scientists were inadvertently affecting their experiments by going home and thinking about their experiments.
And it was like, whoa, what?
And he kind of explained this concept of strange entanglement at a distance, you know, and the fact that vibrationally you've helped build this experiment.
You've put a lot into this experiment.
Like you've put that in there.
Now you're a part of that.
I have a correspondent in Swindon, in the Swindon area, and Wiltshire is UFO central in the UK.
That's where Stonehenge is.
Awful lot of UFOs are reported there.
Awful lot of very earnest researchers in that area.
And he's been reporting to me for a while, and we haven't been able to make a great deal of progress with it, but that people are hearing some kind of noise or hum there.
Not only there, it's a worldwide phenomenon.
I wonder if beyond low frequency communication with submarines, which we know the military have done and that kind of thing.
But I wonder if something, and we can only speculate here, but I wonder if something else is going on, because low frequency in particular has a profound effect on people.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I mean, I've used Schumann resonance quite a bit in a lot of my musical work.
One of the albums I came up with a year or so ago, my show that I have on every week, we talk regularly about the community called targeted individuals, people who basically for decades now, Howard, have claimed symptoms akin to Havana syndrome, being targeted by things like satellite weaponry, microwave weaponry, things like that, basically suffering symptoms similar to tinnitus, that kind of stuff.
So I wrote an entire album focused on that community and the idea of here are some frequencies that will that will help kind of cleanse your brain, reconnect you to the earth and help you find some grounding.
But yeah, right now, the earth is going through some incredibly wild things.
And when you start looking, especially at tectonic phenomena, I mean, we've had a couple of earthquakes here in the United Kingdom.
There was a 3.3 a few days ago here, which is not very much.
But, you know, these are places that don't tend to get them.
We have had, yes, exactly, exactly.
We've had a few here in Texas not too long ago.
And there are volcanoes lighting up all over the place right now.
The Philippines has a big one.
The volcano of Mexico popped up.
All kinds of things.
So those movements of tectonic plates even have very low frequencies involved with them, like way below 8 hertz.
And those frequencies can be unsettling to a human being.
Those are some of the frequencies I was talking about earlier that I used in my music that kind of made you creep out.
Things like that.
And when you start looking at places like Stonehenge, that kind of stuff, yes, they lie on interconnecting what are called ley lines, you know, lines of magnetic energies of the earth, things like that, where these lines of energy overlap.
And oddly enough, yeah, you know, like the UK is an island.
Like there's some tectonic activity there.
Like, you got there because of some major tectonic activity.
It may have been dormant for a long time, but...
I think the journey is ongoing.
I think this is a thing.
I have heard from some of these people.
Are they, when you say targeted, is it they're just susceptible to things that may be natural?
Or do you think, do you speculate?
And to the people that you talk to about this, do they believe that something is targeting them?
There are a group of many of them that truly believe that they are being gangstalked, that they are being targeted by entities and technologies, not necessarily by governments, but people who have been given access to technologies, contractors, things like that, people who test the technology out in the field.
You know, there's got to be somebody that's doing the in-the-field testing of something because they aren't just going to test it in the battlefield first.
So if you're coming up with music and frequencies to try and assuage these things for those people, don't you fear that whoever, whatever clandestine forces may be testing this stuff out or using this Stuff wherever they're from and whatever they are, you know, they might not be too happy with you.
They might not be.
You are absolutely correct.
That is a conversation my wife and I have had.
We have had that conversation numerous times because of the program I have on Tuesday nights.
I had at one point I had Anonymous on my show, and when I had Anonymous on, my server was attacked.
All kinds of things.
You're talking about Anonymous, the hacking group.
Yes, yes.
And yeah, you know, even my guests who write books about targeted individuals, I was talking with one of them just the other day, and they were like, you know, I'm really surprised that you have not popped up on targets, Chris.
But it's funny how whenever I have either one of them on talking about it, I go back and look at my metrics and there's always a spike in Virginia, which is security central in the U.S. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's like, all right, glad to know they're listening.
You know what?
I haven't looked at that world map for myself for a very, very long time.
But I, too, used to have a spike in Virginia.
How strange is that?
I don't think there's going to be anything to security sensitive here.
Strange is it.
Depending on the topic, you know?
And yes, yes, you know, that is something that I have considered.
That is something that I definitely take into consideration.
And even whenever I go to a targeted individual's house, I spent years playing with paranormal investigation, things like that.
On occasion, I get questions when I start pulling out things like my gas meter.
You know, like, let's look for natural gas leaks.
Let's look for radon leaks in your house.
I'm going to pull out my dossometer and we're going to start, you know, taking radiation levels, things like that.
Like, let's look for maybe if you're living on an unknown fault line before we start looking for the extreme of technology targeting you.
You know, we've got to get rid of the normal before we leave the paranormal as the answer.
And that's kind of how I approach things.
Well, I'm with you on that.
Otherwise, you can't claim to be objective, I don't think.
Oh, no, no, absolutely.
But at the same token, I can definitely write some music that can at least help relax things, can at least help provide some peace of mind, provide some additional sleep comfort, things like that, that can help unbusy the very, very busied mind.
We mustn't let the point get away about sounds linking themselves, triggering themselves in the paranormal realm.
What evidence do you have that the use of sound can perhaps key into something paranormal?
You know, and going right back to that Hal Putoff paper and the idea of vibration, one of the stories that I heard him tell at the Remote Viewing Association about being on the UAP panel, because he's read into the government's UAP studies, things like that.
And one of the stories he told was about a gentleman who went to touch a craft and passed through it almost like the flash passing through a wall.
And went into the craft, saw that it was huge and massive on the inside, but tiny on the outside.
And they once again got into the conversation of quantum space and vibration and the idea of, yes, if I could wear a device that would vibrate my body at the same frequency as the door of my studio, I'd have no reason whatsoever to open the door.
I could pass right through it.
By all known physics, everything that we are looking at is literally illusion.
The desk I'm knocking on isn't even a desk.
It's 90% empty space.
We're sharing an electron shell right now, Howard, by all means of actual known physics, you know?
So the idea of vibration playing a part in all of that.
Same way that if you match the vibration frequency of a glass with the musical note, you can shatter it.
It's been shown you can do the same thing with viruses, that you can actually find the resonant frequency of a virus and destroy it with sound.
Well, I think we could certainly use that.
I certainly am one who remembers those old Ella Fitzgerald ads, Memorex.
Do you remember those?
The cassette tapes that Ella would sing a note so high that it would shatter a glass.
And then they would record it on a Memorex cassette, and the Memorex cassette, so the commercial went, both sides of the Atlantic, was so faithful.
Is it live or Memorex?
Yeah, is it live or Memorex?
They would play the tape back of Ella singing the note and the glass would shatter again, thereby proving that the reproduction of Memorex tapes as they were in the day was every bit as good as live, which is interesting.
So, I mean, that's the power of sound.
They say that Stonehenge may have been created partially by the use of sound, the pyramids, perhaps sound was used to transport things.
That is one of the going hypotheses out there.
And, you know, you can now go on Amazon, man, and for like $59, buy an acoustic levitation kit.
Like a little DIY stem kit for kids that has two little ultrasonic speakers.
You're talking like a man who's got one of these things.
Well, I mean, I've definitely looked at them.
I do a lot of electronics playing.
I build small Tesla coils And all sorts of fun things.
I'm an electronics tinkerer and circuit designer and all sorts of things.
Yeah, I wonder if the appropriate frequencies of sound, and I suspect they do.
If they're amplified in the right way, if they're pure enough, if they're targeted enough, then of course you can move things.
And if you refine that, then maybe you can levitate things and you refine that a bit more, which we don't fully understand in our generation, in our time, but maybe the ancients did.
If you refine that even more, target it even more, you might be lifting great blocks of stone in order to build whatever obelisk or whatever it is you want to build.
Yeah, yeah.
No, absolutely.
And that's just it.
And you can hop on YouTube.
They are not fake demonstrations.
You can see the demonstrations of them taking little BBs and throwing them in between these speakers and they just freeze in midair.
Okay, well, I just have to say, because I always do these podcasts in the same way that I would do a UK broadcast.
We're obviously not advocating or recommending or endorsing any of this stuff, but I hear the words that you say.
Yes.
And that's just it.
The technology is out there, and these are things that we are just burgeoning on.
What are you going to do next then with this knowledge?
How are you going to take it forward?
You know, I'm actually taking it backward.
And my next album that I'm busy crafting right now within the rocks kind of takes the idea of ancient knowledge of this and marries it together.
Going through petroglyphs from around the world, I've found many, many similarities in, I guess, what you would consider to be like tribal patterns, things like that.
Kind of like if you consider like the classic Grecian square pattern, you know, things like that, spirals, wave-shaped patterns, sawtooth-shaped patterns.
And the concept is basically that the people who drew these were synesthetic.
This was the, they were basically drawing on these rocks the sounds that they heard in the world around them.
And I've taken the drawings and isolated them from the background and put them through algorithms to actively turn the image into sound.
And some of the sounds I'm getting are pretty remarkable.
You're sounding like a man who thirsts to, for example, go to one of these ancient sites and try out a sound experiment there.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
One of my favorite things is even visiting like Chitsunitsa and hearing the sound effects that are there because of the way that the temple complex is constructed to reflect the sound.
Chitsunitsu, is that Mayan?
Yes.
Yes.
And many of them are like this.
Even Stonehenge, it's been shown that amplifies sound when standing in certain positions.
So yeah, if you were using it for a ceremony with a thousand people, something like that, it would basically amplify the sound for the person carrying on the ritual.
I had the incredible opportunity when I was in college to spend a semester in Europe.
And during that time, we spent a week in Greece and got to go to Epidaurus and the theater there, the amphitheater where we stood at the top and our instructor, our philosophy professor at the bottom struck a match where the stage was and you could hear it clear at the top of the amphitheater.
I thought he was striking a match next to you.
That's almost like the effect of the whispering gallery at St. Paul's Cathedral in London.
Yes, yes, exactly.
And it's remarkable.
And when you look at the fact of like, these were Bronze Age people, you know, they were not acousticians.
They were not people who designed buildings.
I guess technically they were people that designed buildings just for sound.
But, you know, it's like that is a whole field of study now in what we do.
Like you could hire somebody to come in and totally treat your studio and make sure you don't hear any sound from the outside and that your sound on the inside is, you know, properly treated and sounds better than what a raw room sounds like.
I dream of that.
You know?
Well, and but these are things that we are just discovering that they knew thousands of years ago.
Anything I haven't asked that I should have asked?
I know that, for example, you've done some making music using brainwaves.
Yes, yes.
That is one of my favorites is using the actual brain to generate the music.
I have a couple of different brainwave units, like Muse headsets that will actively read your brainwaves, things like that.
And through using Bluetooth connectivity and a couple of programs, things like that, I can actively assign those sensors to control voltage inputs on my synthesizers.
What about plants?
And, you know, a lot of people say, I took a photograph that I put on my Facebook page and it's still there.
I took it at the building where I do my television show on Sunday nights.
It's the news.
It's Rupert Murdoch's building, the news building in central London by London Bridge.
And they have some very nice furniture in that building.
And they have some very beautifully curated, if that's the word I don't think it is, pretended Plants.
And I took a picture of this beautiful plant, one of a set of two, with, I don't know what kind of plant it is, but the most luxurious, shiny leaves, loads of them.
And this plant, the picture, if you look at it on my Facebook page, the official Facebook page, it'll be unexplained with how it used.
You will see that the sun was setting over the River Thames on this particular night.
And the plant's reflection was broadcast to the wall in a great big orange glowing shadow, right?
It was completely, the window impression was orange, and the leaves were perfectly represented.
And it was as if this plant was admiring itself.
I fully believe, and people think I'm nuts, but I say hello to that plant now because I think that that plant has, which of course it does, life within it.
But I actually think it was admiring itself there.
If you look at it.
It's a beautiful picture.
I'm looking at it right now as we speak.
You know, I just, I'm always taking pictures of things, basically so I can use copyright-free pictures on my Facebook page and that kind of stuff.
Very, very important that you do that.
But this brings me, when we talk about sound, of course, people have put probes and sensors on plants and they have generated sound.
And they have generated sound if they feel happy or threatened or whatever.
Yeah, yeah.
There have definitely been the studies in the past.
I am trying to, The Secret Life of Plants, I believe was the name of the book back in the 70s, where they actively put sensors on ferns.
And that's where they first did the music experiments showing that classical music helped them bloom.
And heavy metal music didn't help him at all, things like that.
That is where the seminal work in that was done.
But there are all kinds of devices out there now.
Music of the plants by Bamboo is one of them, where it's got little electrodes that you can put on the plant and then put in the soil, and it basically makes a complete connection.
And that plant's bioelectric signal starts the circuit going.
Basically, the way a synthesizer works is you put in a voltage to control the circuit.
So that micro voltage from the plant, from its bioelectric energy, is moving that control voltage to trigger the synthesizer and start making music.
Hence biofeedback.
Yeah, yeah.
Precisely, precisely.
And the idea that you could utterly reverse that system the same way as you probably well know, if you reverse the wiring on a microphone, it'll be a speaker.
And vice versa.
If you reverse a speaker and talk into it, you can record from it.
I used to do that when I was a kid.
I think we came here.
So look, you know, I don't think we've broken any ground here.
We've just made people think a bit and we've had a conversation, which I've enjoyed.
But I think what we need to leave people with, maybe tell me if you agree, is the notion that we know that words have power.
Just look at our politicians now.
They say a lot of words.
I'm not sure how much power they have, but they work by the notion that words have power.
What you've got to remember is that sounds have power.
There are people who tell me, I put your podcasts on because they soothe me to sleep.
Or do you realize that you helped me through the pandemic period where I suffered here, being in lockdown on my own, completely isolated from everybody else for two years?
But my outlet was recording these shows.
And the sound of them, in some cases, people were telling me, had an impact on the people who were hearing them over and above the words that were being said.
And I've always believed that there is something in that.
And I think we've just talked around some of it, Chris.
Well, and that's an absolute truth.
You know, just to loop that right back to the idea of Kabbalah and even the word spelling, you know, the idea of our words meaning something.
When you go back to Kabbalistic teaching, when you go back to esoteric teaching, we were one of the only creatures that were, we were the only creature according to most traditions that were breathed life into by that divine creator, which means that when it spoke something into being, we now have that ability.
So yeah, we have to, that's why the name of God was not to be spoken.
It was not to be invoked by you.
You could invoke any other word you want, but that one's not for you.
Interesting.
We've had quite an expansive conversation.
I know that there will be some of my listeners who say, what have they been talking about?
And others who will be inclined to look into it a little bit more on the basis of what we've said.
If people want to know about you then, I know that you've got a podcast.
I know that you've got a website.
Where would people go?
ArtofChristopherjordan.com is the location where you can get to everything.
All my music is there.
All my meditation albums are available.
My regular music is available there as well.
You can get the meditation videos.
The new album, Pranothana, actually has an accompanying video set of 30-minute videos that go along with it.
You can watch the videos for free.
The 10-minute samples right there on the website as well.
So yeah, everything's right there at Art of Christopher Jordan.
You can tune in every Tuesday to Curious Realm.
I've really enjoyed this conversation, and I think it's been kind of a primer.
That's the word.
It's been a primer for all of this stuff.
And I believe that not only do words have power, as we said, but also think about the sounds that you hear and the effect that those sounds may have upon you.
Because as we say here in the UK, thereby might hang a tail.
Chris, thank you.
Thank you.
Chris Jordan, some things about sound that you may never have appreciated.
Some people have said, with some of the guests and even myself on The Unexplained, that the actual sound of the podcast in some way helps them.
Now, if that is so, and I don't doubt what you're saying, I don't understand it, that is something pretty amazing.
Chris Jordan, the guest on this edition, your thoughts on him, welcome.
Please go to my website, theunexplained.tv, and send me your feedback if you want to do that.
You can send it through the email link there.
More great guests in the pipeline here at the Home of the Unexplained online.
So until we meet again, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained, and please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, don't boil.
And above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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