The Unexplained - Howard Hughes - Edition 731 - Tim Burchett/Paul Sinclair

June 18, 2023 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

51:04

Edition 731 - Tim Burchett/Paul Sinclair

Two guests from my tv show - US Congressman Tim Burchett on the recent David Grusch UAP revelations... And Paul Sinclair in Yorkshire on his exciting new documentary "Wolflands"...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is definitely Howard Hughes, and this is definitely the Unexplained.
	Well, still hot in London, little bit cloudy, little bit steamy at the moment, but you know, I'm getting there.
	Still sitting here in my shorts, doing my best, as they say.
	I hope everything is okay with you, and of course, none of this will make any sense if you're in the southern hemisphere, because in the southern hemisphere, it's cold at the moment, I understand.
	So, you know, that's how it is.
	North and south, as they say, up here and down there.
	Like a famous sage once said.
	But nice to hear from you wherever in the world you are.
	Don't forget, of course, you can always contact me through the website, theunexplained.tv, and the official Facebook page of The Unexplained with how it used, the one with the official logo on it and no other Facebook page, is always available to you.
	And I love to hear what you think and your reflections upon the show.
	Now, a couple of items from the TV show on this edition of The Unexplained in the light of the David Groosh revelations about UFOs UAPs and what the American government and maybe other governments may be holding on to and not telling us.
	I get the views of Congressman Tim Burchett first, so he's going to be on here from the TV show.
	Then after that, an update on his documentary Wolflands and other things from the great Paul Sinclair, great friend of this show, as featured on the TV show and saved here for posterity on the Home of the Unexplained online.
	Thank you to Adam, my webmaster, for his hard work.
	Thank you to you for being there all the way through.
	All right, not going to hang about item number one, the David Grush revelations and what they may mean from Congressman Tim Burkett.
	Thank you for having me on, brother.
	So, Tim, I got really excited when I saw this story on Monday.
	Was I right to be excited?
	Yeah, yeah, he's a legitimate guy.
	I know him.
	We'll try to get him before our committee that will be studying this issue.
	At least we'll get one hearing anyway.
	But I think he's legit.
	I think what's going to happen is they're going to try to destroy his reputation, as you well know.
	This so-called whistleblower protection is good, but it's just as good as the people who wrote it and the people who choose to enforce it.
	You know him, Tim.
	Why do you think he came out and did this?
	It's probably just maybe not his conscience, but just all the misdirection that's out there right now and the untrue stories.
	You know, it just has been coming out for a while and folks have confided in me issues like this many times.
	And, you know, one thing I want to say, though, that when the government says we don't have a craft recovery, unknown craft recovery, that can't be true.
	When a Soviet satellite falls or a Russian Chinese satellite falls somewhere, what do we do?
	We don't just send a group of guys out there in a pickup truck to pick it up.
	I would say that we have some people that are very in tune to what's going on.
	And to say that we don't, I think, is being very disingenuous.
	Do you believe, as I've heard, Tim, that there is a group of people who've existed for decades who are not the official cleanup team when these things happen?
	The official cleanup team who go out there are the people who provide the official reports say nothing to see here.
	But there's another bunch of people, and they are military connected, Air Force connected.
	They come and they do the cleanup and they take the stuff away and we don't get to hear about it again.
	Do you think that's how it happens?
	Yeah, I think it's probably Secret Service, or I mean, not Secret Service, excuse me, one of our alphabet agencies, a CIA type NSA, something along, military intelligence agency of some sort that probably has something to do with that.
	But they're the ones that are going to do it with the before mentioned satellites that fall out of the sky or aircraft that we recover.
	You know, during the Korean War, I remember we paid a million dollars, offered a million dollars to somebody who would fly a MIG jet out.
	And that was at that time, that was kind of the, you know, we did that during the Second World War.
	We tried to get a Japanese Zero and other implements that we tried to get.
	And so I think it's a carryover from that.
	But I do think it's at a higher level than just our standard military operation.
	Are you one of the Congress people denied the information that this whistleblower, Mr. Grush, says, were denied?
	Yeah, I don't know.
	I've got a top secret clearance, I believe is what it's called.
	You know, I can go into the skiff and read the documents, and that's been my argument all along.
	You read a bunch of these documents, they look like Swiss cheese.
	They've been redacted, you know, that blacked out.
	There's more white than there is black on them.
	And I mean, more black than there is white on them.
	And I don't know.
	You got to know what questions to ask and who to ask them.
	And the problem is the people you're talking to probably aren't lying.
	But the thing is that that gum compartmentalized, it's been that way since the 40s probably, that you just don't know.
	You know, I've talked to people that worked on the atomic bomb at Oak Ridge during the Second World War.
	A guy, I mean, his wife worked on an implement of it, and he worked on another implement, and he did not know until after the war what she was working on, just because people honored that commitment so much more back then than they do now.
	And so I suspect it's a very tight-knit little group.
	You know, I suspect it doesn't, you know, when they reclaim something or capture something, I suspect it hasn't been something that's happened lately.
	I don't think it happens every week, but I do think it is old enough to where it became so compartmentalized that it is that most people that knew about it are long gone by now.
	Tim, do you think we've got a snowball going down a mountainside here?
	Do you think this is gathering momentum?
	Could this be it?
	I had so many emails.
	Your inbox must have been jammed when this came out.
	So many emails from people saying, whoopee, Howie, this is the big one.
	Get on board.
	And I was skeptical because part of my gut, although I'm excited, says to me, something or somebody is going to close this down.
	What do you think?
	Well, we're getting closer, obviously.
	I don't know that this one will be it because it doesn't, there's no physical thing we can put in our hand.
	You know, I want to see a, I want to see a colored video.
	I want to see one of these craft up close.
	I want to touch it.
	You know, I want to be one of those that does that.
	And until we do, I think you're going to have a hard time making anything happen.
	And the problem we have now is, I mean, this is not a political statement.
	This is a statement of fact.
	We have a White House that is very rudderless.
	I've talked to some former high-ups in the Trump administration.
	And when I can get a face-to-face meeting, they've told me that they will tell me some things.
	And I sure as heck would like to see some of that stuff.
	You tell me a couple of months ago.
	Sorry to jump in here, Tim, that you were going to be talking with DJT himself.
	Did you have that meeting?
	I did not, and I'm looking forward to that.
	I'm supposed to before long.
	But now with all the court proceedings, there's a lot of other stuff to deal with right now.
	He's got a lot of stuff dealing with.
	But I suspect he himself was probably not told about everything.
	That's part of the problem.
	That's the frustration that a lot of people have with the president.
	It's just the dad gum big.
	And where do you go?
	And the people telling you, like I said, maybe not lying, but they've compartmentalized it.
	And that's what I said, the people they put in charge of in our intelligence committee, so-called intelligence committee that was open to the public about UFOs, UAPs.
	I said they couldn't even spell UFO.
	They didn't have a clue.
	They were just what they'd pick up on the internet or something.
	And, you know, and we're not going to get to the bottom of it there.
	Again, I warn American citizens.
	I mean, I'm getting calls.
	My office said, wow, boss, you're getting calls from legitimate people this week on the UFOs because everybody is concerned about it.
	But they don't need any more DACA money.
	They need to just turn loose the facts.
	You just push a button, put it out there, let the public decide, unredact the redacted stuff.
	This stuff is long past all that.
	And until we do that, we're never going to get anywhere.
	But I hope we put some legitimate pressure on the powers that be.
	Somebody suggested, just finally here, Tim, that perhaps pressure should be put on the current President Biden to include it in his State of the Union address, to include this issue in it.
	Do you think there's any chance that might happen?
	I don't know.
	I doubt it.
	Just State of the Union is just words.
	Everybody jumps up and down about it, and the market reacts to it.
	And then Congress throws a monkey wrench in it.
	And so until somebody walks out of one of these labs or one of these top secret folks comes out.
	Like I said, they're going to try to destroy my friend, I'm pretty sure.
	And there'll be articles.
	York Times or some that's usually their venue is some some newspaper like that have some damning information about him.
	And in fifth grade, he.
	We can take examples from the past.
	As far as you know, I mean, you say that you know him.
	He's a friend.
	What's he been doing this last week?
	Because, you know, the world must have erupted around him when the story broke.
	He's been doing a lot of talking, I suspect, and a lot of soul searching.
	And I suspect a lot of people are scratching their heads and worried.
	But I think he has legitimate concerns, and he knows some things that the public needs to know.
	The problem is, is how much can he talk about?
	Because he himself is compartmentalized, and he knows that he has a, you know, I'm sure he's taken an oath to the grave on some of this stuff.
	And most of those guys tend to keep it, or they go to the federal penitentiary somehow for some other unrelated cause.
	It's incredibly sensitive stuff, and it's amazing that it's out there.
	And by the sounds of it, Tim, neither of us knows which way this is going to go next.
	No, no, we just need more people to start coming forward.
	I think it's going to have to be so many that they can't do it.
	They just have to say, hey, we're folding our cards on this one.
	But until that happens, we're going to still just be, they'll just be piecemailing it out there to us.
	Congressman Tim Burchard, thank you for your time again, Tim.
	Have a good rest of this Sunday.
	You heard it there.
	He knows the man, but he's not convinced that this is going to be the opening of the floodgates that we might expect it to be.
	But there are other people out there.
	That's crucial from what came out of this conversation.
	There are other people.
	What's going to be crucial to it all is will they begin to speak?
	And if they do, when will they do it?
	How will they do it?
	And exactly where will they make that disclosure?
	My thanks, of course, to Congressman Tim Burchett for being part of my TV show.
	Now to Yorkshire, Paul Sinclair, the man behind the Truth Proofbooks, four of them so far, and the new documentary Wolflands.
	Here is our catch-up from the TV show.
	It's great to be back speaking with you.
	Now, are you all right with taking any calls?
	If anybody wants to phone up and talk with you, are you cool with that?
	Anything.
	Just hit me with the questions and we'll do the best we can.
	Now, your Wolflands documentary, I think, has been in production now for three years.
	And it's now out.
	It's out, Howard.
	And is it actually out or is it about to be out?
	It's with a few distributors, Howard, and the sort of feedback's been favourable.
	So hopefully we won't have to stream it ourselves or have DVDs made.
	And it sounds like a boast, but there simply isn't another documentary on this particular genre of unexplained like Wolflands.
	There really isn't.
	Well, I think we should dive into it, and I'll talk about other stuff, other business when we've talked about Wolflands.
	So look, there is an area to the north of where you're based, isn't there, a forest.
	And some very peculiar happenings have occurred there down the decades.
	It doesn't just go back decades.
	It goes back into the annals of time.
	The things that people are reporting, Howard, they've been seen.
	Well, they're reported in folklore.
	It's the same things, just with different names.
	And, you know, I don't think we're breaking new ground.
	All we're doing is Sort of reviving these things from the past.
	And yeah, it's a fabulous thing.
	And the reports are coming in all the time.
	We're thrilled to bits with the witnesses, with everything that's come about with Wolflands.
	It's got more people reporting to us.
	It's kind of a snowball effect.
	And we're not just getting it now from the forest, Howard, we're getting it from suburbia.
	We've got reports of people unbelievably seeing these things in their own homes.
	In their homes.
	In their homes.
	And obviously, if we do Wolflands 2, which we've already started filming, we won't just concentrating in the forests.
	We'll be coming out of the forests as well.
	I think we have to be very clear about what we are talking about here, because I know that you and I have done so many podcasts together.
	We've discussed this.
	So anybody who's heard one of those podcasts or watched one of your streams will understand what this is about.
	But let's be very clear about what we think the phenomenon is here.
	Well, as crazy as it might sound, Howard, it's the dogman, the werewolf phenomena.
	Something that I never thought I would have an ounce of interested in until I wrote the first book.
	And then I started receiving reports from a tiny village in North Yorkshire called Flixton.
	And it's kind of snowballed from there.
	Even the locations at Flixton, there's a report a few months ago from a similar area to where other reports have been made.
	And I don't know, these people are not...
	I think we've just got to establish what is the real, because I don't particularly think there's something fur-covered, bipedal running around the fields and forests and the cliff tops of Bempton and Spaton.
	However, I do believe there is some kind of reality to this.
	I just don't know what the real is.
	And to the people who've experienced it over the decades, it's very real.
	Real and terrifying.
	You know, it's, I can't even imagine.
	And it's been like a therapy for some of these witnesses because they've had nowhere to speak, nowhere to turn as regards dealing with what they've seen and experienced.
	And it's all sections of society.
	It's not just certain types of people.
	It's a difficult one, Howard.
	One of our first conversations about the making of Wolflands was at a very early stage of it.
	And you went up to the forest and you talked to a number of people who I think had been in a cabin, hadn't they?
	They'd been staying in a cabin up there.
	And what happened to them overnight was utterly terrifying.
	It was straight out of a horror movie.
	Without a doubt, they were wild camping.
	The cabin or the abandoned farmhouse was a gamekeeper.
	But the guys who'd been wild camping in a forest called Broxa.
	Now, I think I spoke to you before about Broxa Forest and the Broxer in mythology is a shape-shifting demon, which is strange that we've got this forest named Broxa and they're seeing this strange bipedal creature.
	So three men went into the forest.
	One of the men, who hasn't gone on film, he became aware that something was watching them long before it appeared, which was out of character for him.
	They did not go in there with the intention of looking for unexplained phenomena.
	They actually went in there just wild camping and having a weekend away, sort of a three men on a jolly, basically, a bit of fishing and just enjoying themselves, which they did two or three times a year.
	But the guy said, I don't like it.
	We're being watched.
	And they're kind of the other two, what's the matter with you?
	We don't understand what he's talking about.
	And then from nowhere, two huge glowing eyes lit up in the darkness.
	So I'm told, about three feet off the ground.
	And the description that you gave me on a podcast when you were just collating this information about those eyes, even though we were only doing sound then, was utterly terrifying.
	Self-illuminating eyes.
	No tortures on them.
	I mean, I took a surveyor's tape into the forest after they'd told me where they camped.
	And we spent a few nights in there with them.
	You know, it was 2018 that they saw this.
	And we've been in it last few years with them.
	And this thing were approximately 40 feet away.
	And after a while, they thought their friend, who was getting very frightened and looking at these eyes when they appeared, was going to run off into the darkness.
	So Jim, who's in the film, is obviously face on film, stood up and said, I took a few paces towards this thing, made a few hissing and shooing sounds, and it disappeared.
	Like a dog.
	Turned round.
	Oh, might.
	Yeah, he said, I turned round, and then I looked at Steve, and we'll call him witness number three.
	Jaws have dropped.
	He said, and there's a look of horror on their faces.
	He said, so when I turned back from being three foot in the air, these eyes are now seven foot in the air.
	And it watched them all night.
	There's a suggestion that there's some communication with witness three because he said at one point, it wants you to go, Jim.
	And you, Steve.
	It doesn't want you here.
	And Steve openly said, I was that terrified, I just wanted it to end.
	And I didn't care how.
	He said, I've never felt fear like it before.
	Now, there was a physical to this Howard because at times they thought it was growling.
	Then they realized it was breathing.
	The lung capacity, the lung power, they said it was breathing.
	So at first light, they can see the glowing eyes in the peripheral, but at some point it disappears.
	They hastily pack their things up and leave the forest.
	All the time, witness number three still saying it's still here.
	And then at a certain point, he said, we're okay now, it's gone.
	So that's not the first report from that forest.
	Then seven miles away, Howard, at a place called State, there's an abandoned farmhouse called Brownhead Farm.
	And it was there back in 2002 that a young gamekeeper who was using this abandoned farmhouse as his base encountered something similar whilst laid in the farmhouse late at night, early hours of the morning, lit a fire, just the glowing embers, and he woke up.
	He said, he doesn't know why he woke up, but obviously he did.
	And he's looking at the window.
	No curtains in this farmhouse.
	It's abandoned.
	It took him a few years of working there to actually find it in a forest clearing.
	However, this thing came to the window.
	The gamekeeper's a big man.
	And he said it filled three quarters of the window and it was stooping down to look in.
	He didn't see no eyes.
	He didn't see no teeth.
	He just claims that this thing was watching him and it was stooped.
	Well, we measured that.
	And even though today this farmhouse has had the roof burnt off and there's no, obviously no tiles.
	So there's a lot of debris below the window.
	It was still seven foot to the lintel.
	So that's his experience of the first night.
	Seven miles away from the first place.
	I think what we should do at this point, just so we know exactly what we're talking about here, is see a little taster, little teaser for Wolflands the documentary.
	Here it comes.
	So when I turned around, there was just this thing really close looking at me.
	And it was huge.
	Massive shoulders.
	Yeah, massive head.
	And when I rubbed my eyes and looked again, it just twisted its head like a curious dog.
	The anxiety in me just switched on from where I can't tell you.
	Proper fear.
	I was terrified.
	I was absolutely terrified.
	Then things turned for the worse.
	This thing, it stood up, like stood up on two legs.
	And at this point, the dogs were properly terrified.
	We all were.
	They come about seven feet tall and it just stared at us.
	And there it is.
	A clip from Wolflands.
	Just a little taster of the fear that those people exhibit, Paul.
	You know, I mean, they look absolutely genuine talking to you there.
	You know, obviously, whatever is going on is engendering a level of trepidation in people that is not, you know, your run-of-the-mill fear.
	Correct, Howard.
	And you touched on it there, fear.
	I've not heard throughout all of these reports of anybody being injured or harmed, apart from inside their heads with the fear.
	And it just seems like an overwhelming fear that these things, I don't know whether that's what they want, but that's the effect that they're having anyway.
	And I suppose I would feel exactly the same.
	We all would if faced with something like that.
	And to the core of this, Paul, is the question of whether this thing is somehow projecting itself into the heads and minds of those people or whether it's three-dimensional and real.
	Certainly what appeared at that farmhouse window sounded real enough.
	Bob in Belfast is asking, what image or video evidence has been captured from the Wolflands?
	I think he's basically asking you, have you got footage?
	I think, Bob's, it's a great question, Bob.
	And we haven't.
	So I'm sorry to fall short.
	And we've not dressed it up and put any strange howls or strange noises.
	It's purely anecdotal evidence from witnesses who've gone on camera and laid down their truth.
	And, you know, I have looked at a lot of other documentaries in the past where they've allegedly seen things and you see this.
	It's almost like the UFO phenomena and things that are seen and great promises that we're going to get.
	And the danger for you is if you start mocking it up, if you start mocking it up, and we've just got to explain to our viewer that we've had some problems with the sound between us tonight.
	So there might be a little bit of delay.
	But if you start trying to mock up the phenomenon, then your viewer, and this is where some of these UFO documentaries fall down, the viewer can't tell whether that's something that's real or whether that's something that you've mocked up for illustration.
	And that's why I think doing what you've done and just honestly speaking to people and getting their accounts is valid, very valid.
	I think it's all we can do, Howard.
	And no disrespect to the other documentaries that are out there on this genre, on the UFOs.
	They're all doing it their way.
	But ultimately, we're all left with anecdotal evidence.
	But wherever possible, I want to get first-hand accounts.
	And that's all we can do.
	And I've tried my hardest to get as much information out of these witnesses as possible.
	And also let them come away not feeling like they've been ridiculed, which is something that presents in a lot of documentaries that you see, particularly the ones that might make TV and things.
	No, it's important to be able to, which you do brilliantly, to allow people to find their comfort zone.
	And if they find their comfort zone with you or anybody doing, you know, broadcasting, recording, whatever it is, then they're going to talk.
	And clearly they've opened up.
	Question from Brian in Dumfries.
	He says, are these creatures like the typical movie creatures?
	In other words, says Brian in Dumfries, are they humans that can transform into a wolf or werewolf or are they werewolves all the time?
	In other words, do they shapeshift?
	I can't imagine the transformation from a human to some kind of bipedal fur-covered creature any more than I could imagine that the moon somehow influences that transformation.
	All I know is that the witnesses are reporting these things and the locations that they're getting reported tend to be repeating over and over again.
	120 years ago, there was a writer called Howard Breley, and he reported from a place called East Ayton that there was a huge fur-covered hound that haunted the lonely forests and moors with flaming red eyes.
	This is 121 years ago he reported this.
	East Ayton just happens to be two miles from Broxer Forest.
	So once again, these ancient places are sort of throwing up the same stories in present day.
	And there's also a burial mound connection because a lot of the times the things these are seen around ancient earthworks.
	And we've got a recent report, not quite werewolf, but shadow type beings in another forest in North Yorkshire.
	They're only separated these forests by name.
	You know, see for Harwood, Dale, Broxha, Langdale.
	Ultimately, you could touch on them all on foot and you wouldn't know.
	But this is another forest just short of Broxha, just below Broxer, where four men went into camp.
	Whilst in the forest, during the daytime, they're collecting firewood.
	And one of them, Paul, who was filmed myself and Les Drake, who've made Wolflands, went into the forest last week and filmed two of them.
	He could see shadows looking around trees, nothing solid.
	And he's watching this from the peripheral and thinking, am I imagining this?
	And eventually, he spoke to his friends and said, I'm going to say something strange here, but has anybody noticed anything?
	So they all said, we're seeing strange shadows.
	The night came on, they sat round a fire, and they said it were more of an inquisitive kind of trickster element to it or playful.
	And they could see legs and the shape of men, not fur-covered beings, moving between the trees, but solid black.
	There's also a physical element to this, because Ray, who went on film last week, said he sat with his to the fire, you know, leaning away with a high-up collar on his clothing.
	He said it was almost like slow motion, he said, and he just felt something grip him and pull him backwards.
	And he says he felt the knuckle press into his neck.
	He screamed, as I think I would.
	And it took him 15, 20 minutes to sort of calm down.
	But his gut feeling, so I know I've just been talking about the fear and the sheer terror, was that this was more inquisitive.
	But interestingly, Howard, it's next to burial mounds.
	They were literally camped very close to the burial mounds.
	And look, it's not often that you get reports that involve physical contact.
	If this guy's story is correct, then something physically grabbed him.
	That's what he's saying, yeah.
	And do you know, Howard, I do realize how difficult this subject must be for people to get their heads around.
	I think out of the whole, the full spectrum of unexplained phenomena, the cryptid is the hardest to sort of, I don't know.
	It is because it seems to vary so much between places, even within your own region of investigation that seems to be increasing all the time in size.
	But also that thought that we must keep returning to, that there is almost a supernatural element to all of it.
	It's not just like a big cat that is something that's been around and keeping itself scarce over decades, but is a physical, hairy, four-legged thing that is actually there.
	This is much more than that.
	And kind of connected with that and what we were just talking about.
	Great question, Nicholas here, who says, do you believe, essentially, he's saying, do you believe that there is any connection with ley lines, in other wise words, lines of energy?
	It's possible.
	And it is interesting that not talking about the cryptid, but from the Rudston monolith, as we know, Britain's tallest standing stone, if you run a line through the monolith to RF Staxton Wold, which used to be a Roman hill fort, but it crosses Willey Howe.
	It literally crosses Willey Howe.
	And people will be saying, well, what's Willy Howe?
	It's a burial mound in East Yorkshire.
	Perhaps if you Google it, you'll find that it's probably one of the most prominent ones, certainly in the UK.
	And it's got stories of unexplained lights, little people, beings where I think in the 12th century, William of Newborough chronicled a man riding home on his horse late one night and as he's passing the burial mound, he sees an opening in it and filled with light and looks inside.
	And he claims that there's a banquet full of hobs and goblins all feasting.
	Sounds like a fairy tale, I realize that.
	He stops and looks in and he's offered a drink from one of the People inside.
	Apparently, he knows he's not to take a drink from these, the Fae, otherwise, he becomes enslaved.
	So he pours the drink out and makes AC retreat on his horse.
	The burial mound runs very close to the Gypsy Race, which is known as Woe Waters in East Yorkshire.
	That's got lots of strange stories attached to it, said to have flowed when the Great Fire of London occurred and lots of other sort of marks in history.
	Where the story of Willie Howe becomes interesting is the cup was given to one of the kings of England.
	So it did exist, quite whether it belonged to fairies or not, Howard.
	You know, we'll never know.
	I would think that.
	And we have to say, Paul, that, you know, these burial mounds are not just something that, you know, Paul St. Clair's found.
	And, you know, I can remember being at school and, you know, they give us old-fashioned maps to look at.
	And every so often there'd be something marked tumuli or tumulus.
	That's correct.
	And that's a burial mound.
	And they are all over this country.
	But that's correct.
	And we have a story from Flickston, and it's a Barrow Cemetery at the top of RF.
	You've got RF Stackstone Wold, and then just across from it, you've got Flickston Wold.
	And we go right back to 1948 when two young boys then, obviously, claim that they're walking towards the burial mound and they see this creature sat on its haunches, looking at something in its hands.
	It looked at them.
	Their reaction was to turn and run.
	Obviously, what we're dealing with potentially should be an apex predator, but it did nothing.
	There's something more than the physical to these.
	I do believe that they are supernatural.
	It's something that wants, and we've talked about this, you and me, on all those podcasts, it's something that wants to make its presence felt, but not other than in the case of the guy grabbed and pulled backwards, usually not physically felt.
	Just a quick one here, and I think it's interesting.
	It's tangential to what we're talking about.
	But John says, this is John's opinion, whatever the phenomenon is, it is demonic, or is it demonic?
	He wants to know if it is, but I think he suspects it is.
	There are lots of accounts of demons in books.
	Witches conjure up demons in rituals.
	Now, you talked about the appearance of some shadowy people.
	You and I have talked about over at Bempton, there were people who were involved in rituals at the RAF, the Air Force base there.
	There's evidence of that in abandoned buildings.
	So I wonder, and this is kind of extrapolating from John's question here, if there is something to do with the practice of what you might call witchcraft or dabbling in the demonic, another dimension, to do with this.
	Because as you say, this is not just flesh and blood.
	I think he makes a good point because back in the Mesolithic period, Flixton was a huge lake, Lake Flixton.
	And archaeologists have speculated that the early people there were shamanic, practicing ritual and sacrifice.
	Now, we're not saying that what people call the Flixton werewolf is some kind of remnant from that past, but you never know.
	Like you touched on, the R.F. Bempton, it came to the area in 1940 and operated till 1968.
	But in the 70s and 80s and possibly early 90s, it was used intermittently by a satanic cult.
	The first book, I thought it was just rumor, and then it kind of grew right to the third book.
	So could these things be demonic?
	It's a possibility.
	You know, I wrote The Night People about my own experiences from childhood with, and obviously I called them, there they are, the night people, because I saw these things during the night as a child and people would call them alien.
	Me personally, they are alien, Howard, but they're only alien to everything we know and understand.
	For all I know, they could be demons.
	That's as close as I could say, because I think we're all speculating and we're all theorizing on what these things could be.
	Because we do not have, obviously we don't have, because we only know what we experience in the three dimensions around us.
	We don't have the language to describe it.
	The one great thing about you, one of many great things about you, is that you're not afraid to address the skeptics.
	Here comes a skeptical question from Leo, who texted to say, simple question.
	The young gamekeeper that we talked about at the beginning, and we talked about on our podcasts as well.
	Now, we know that gamekeepers are often equipped with a shotgun because they have to be, which they're licensed to carry.
	So Leo asks, why didn't the Gamekeeper, if the Gamekeeper was afraid of what the Gamekeeper was experiencing, shoot the creature?
	If you see what I'm saying, I see what you're saying.
	And to answer Leo, I did ask him this, not why didn't you shoot it?
	I said, did you have a gun?
	And he said he did.
	But he said, this thing, it would only have a shotgun, a 12-bore.
	He said it was so big it could have come through the wall if it wanted.
	I know that doesn't answer his question, but when you look at hunters overseas hunting bears and things, they don't go hunting creatures like that with a 12-bore shotgun.
	They're using things like a 30-yard six.
	And we have to be clear, don't we, that somebody who does that for a living, and in my days on Radio Wyvern in Hereford and Worcester, I knew a lot of people who worked in the country like that.
	And they may carry, you know, they may have the full country kit on, you know, the tweeds or whatever, and the barber jacket, whatever they might have.
	And they might well be carrying a gun.
	But the training is you absolutely positively don't use it unless you absolutely positively have to.
	That's correct.
	Obviously, we've not had time to discuss the full detail of his encounter.
	It was actually in a sleeping bag.
	And he says, I went in a sleeping bag.
	And even if I'd have done zipped myself, he said, I couldn't have done anything against this thing if I wanted.
	However, the next night, there's a clearing in front of the farmhouse.
	So one more for the skeptically minded.
	He said, I put a tarp on the ground about 30 feet away, and I settled down and I waited.
	And sometime during the early hours of the morning, and he didn't take his gun, this thing, he said, came out.
	And another thing that takes it away from the true physical for me is he said he didn't see any leg movement.
	It arrived.
	He could see the shoulders.
	He could see the dark mass.
	He could see the head.
	He said it was, he talks about the fascia boards of the farm buildings, and his head was just above them on a single story.
	He said it just arrived.
	An analogy, almost like he said, if you'd have waved a torch beam down the building, it just arrived.
	That's what people think.
	Sorry, stood looking and you, that's like, here I am jumping in.
	That's like people's accounts of ghosts, isn't it?
	Very often.
	They cannot see the legs or the feet.
	It is, yeah.
	And we've got lots of examples that take these things away from the true physical.
	In a neighboring forest at Howard Dale, we've got reports from a group of mountain bikers who say that this thing was in not necessarily the same one.
	This thing was in the bracken at the side of them, 30 foot away as they're going down a track.
	And it's almost like it's on a sliding track.
	Well, if you've been into these forests, Howard, there's rocks, there's fallen trees, there's divots full of water.
	Yet this thing's just moving.
	And they've described it as moving as though it's on a track.
	The people in America, other countries who describe the Bigfoot talk about it gliding.
	It's a strange one.
	I don't possess to have the answers.
	I just don't.
	I've got a question.
	This is from Jay in Aldershot, who's online to a lot of people texting him tonight, but Jay's phoned.
	Jay, thank you for doing this.
	What's your question for Paul?
	Hi there.
	Good evening.
	Firstly, thank you for taking my call.
	I'm actually, I had an encounter when I was a young teenager, but we leave that aside.
	So since then, I have been looking into that a lot.
	And I'm of Scandinavian descent.
	And I actually come to the conclusion that most of these encounters happen in areas with a lot of Viking heritage, such as North Yorkshire, such as the area where I had my encounter.
	The Vikings had warriors called the Olfhetnada.
	And there's also Zagas about people who were kind of like man-wolves, pretty much.
	So I wonder if they're just a memory of that.
	In other words, if it was some kind of imprint.
	Thanks for that, Jay.
	And listen, stay on the line, Jay, because I want to ask you what your experience was.
	Because I think we'd like to hear that too.
	But what do you think, Paul?
	I think she's on the money.
	There's a huge Norse influence in North Yorkshire, as the ladies just said.
	And very close to where, we'll jump back to the three guys in Broxa.
	You've got Warsman's Head, a location.
	And Norse, the Warg, was a wolf.
	Yeah.
	You know, we only need an extra letter to become Wolfman's Head.
	It's not just a play on words.
	Very close to Warsman's Head is Moor Rig, which is an outcrop of stone.
	But it's not M-O-R-E, it's M-A-W.
	The Moor.
	So if we jump into Viking terminology and Ragnarok, the wolf that brought about the end of the world was Fenrir the Viking, and is often described as the Moor, the mighty jaws of the wolf.
	So there's lots of terminology and lots of connotations to the wolf in those forests.
	And obviously then we're going to get the sceptic saying, well, yes, there would be because they would have been prevalent back in the day, which is true.
	But, you know, it's fascinating.
	Jay, what was your encounter?
	It's a long story.
	Is there a way to tell it short?
	I keep it really short.
	Thank you.
	It actually, I've got a Danish dad and a German mom, and I grew up in Germany.
	And I walked back from a friend, and I actually, it was very rural, I grew up really in a very rural area.
	And I walked back and I saw something running next to me.
	And back then we had no wolves in Germany.
	Now they're actually coming back from the east.
	Back then we didn't.
	So I thought, just a huge dog, a bit scary.
	But anyway, so and it stopped and it rose on its hind legs.
	And it was absolutely terrifying, absolutely terrifying.
	And it came closer.
	It literally, it sniffed me.
	It sniffed me up and down.
	And I was, I literally cried.
	Everything, I lost control of all my body functions.
	And it just sniffed me and it just left.
	And I turned around a little bit and I could see a larger one.
	So I think it was a juvenile.
	So it was a pure animal encounter.
	It was a real, to me it was a real animal.
	So I'm in two minds if they're really just kind of echoes from the past or if they're real animals.
	But it was something that you could pick out of a horror movie.
	And age 11, I didn't watch these things.
	Later on, I could watch a horror movie and say, yes, that's what I've seen.
	Were you scared?
	Scared is not the word.
	I literally lost control of our body function.
	Wow.
	Yes, you said that.
	My God.
	So that was down to the fear.
	Hey, listen, Jay.
	Thank you very much, indeed.
	And you did a great job of keeping that long story short.
	Thank you.
	So you see that this has got a resonance with all kinds of people, hasn't it, Paul?
	Vicky, Vic, you sent me a great big long text and my screen doesn't have space for all of it here.
	So if you can send me that as an email, or if you can send me a shorter version while Paul's on, but we've only got about four minutes or so.
	Paul, you were...
	Let's get myself organized here.
	I've got two questions that came in on email, and I want to get those done.
	Marco in Birmingham says, given the millions of high-definition mobile phones, CCTV, digital cameras all over the world, why do you think that no definitive photos have been captured and made public?
	I think he's talking about the phenomena that you're involved in.
	You know, why aren't there pictures?
	Comes back to where's the evidence.
	I haven't got an answer to it, you know, and you're spot on what you're saying.
	I mean, I go out to these locations and I take psionics, night vision cameras, I take thermal cameras.
	And EMF as well, electromagnetic.
	We take EMF meters, lots of things.
	But like this guy's just said, everybody's got a half-decent mobile phone.
	Why aren't they getting photographs?
	Do you know, sometimes, and it sounds like a weak excuse, but when you're presented with something that's just so far out of what you've believed possible, perhaps the last thing you think of doing is reaching into your pocket to take a phone, take a picture.
	That's all I can think because it goes same for the UFO phenomena.
	You would think that we'd have loads of fabulous pictures now, but they're still evading us.
	I think if it is, yes, we've all got a phone.
	I mean, this thing goes with me when I'm on the bike.
	You know, wherever I go, I've got my phone with me because that's just the way life is now.
	But if you experienced something that was gobsmackingly weird, I think in my case and many other people's case, you would actually be so transfixed with what you were experiencing that probably the last thing you would think of doing is, I've got to turn my phone on, select camera, make sure I've got the image, you know, stabilizer on and all the rest of it.
	You wouldn't do that unless you had incredible presence of mind that I don't have.
	Jonathan in Sussex asks, has Paul any current news on ABCs, otherwise known as alien big cats, or theories on that topic?
	Well, I do believe that they are residing here in the UK.
	I think we'd all have to have been living under a stone if we didn't realize that now.
	I've got a bit of footage that I've not put out anywhere of a big cat.
	I've put some stills out and I can put some more out.
	So if people want to put me on the spot, email me and I'll put some stills out.
	Yes, they're out there.
	What I do find fascinating, and I know we're tight for time, Howard, is that they're showing up in places that aren't quite as remote and out of the way as they should be.
	There's a lane in East Yorkshire called Short Lane.
	Single track, unassuming road.
	Over the decades, we've got big cat sightings on Short Lane.
	Once again, all independent witnesses.
	The cats are here.
	We've got a report from Howard Dale of a lady tending her sheep.
	She's near some gorse.
	You know, the green bush with the yellow flowers.
	And she's just sort of looking at her sheep and then looks at the gorse and sees two paws stuck out of it.
	And when she looks in, there's a black cat watching her.
	I think it's just well known now within the people of North Yorkshire, at least, that there's a living, breeding population of these felines up there and probably all around the United Kingdom.
	Paul, you've done fantastically tonight.
	You've written four truth proofs.
	Are you writing another book?
	I know you were taking a pause from the books.
	I've got enough information for probably a few more books, Howard, but I'm 60 years old.
	While ever I've got breath in my body to get into these locations, that's what I'm going to do.
	There'll be a time for writing books.
	Got to get up close and personal.
	If people want to encounter your website, Paul, and see your stuff, including Wolflands, where do they go?
	Truthproof.uk.
	And you can purchase books there or look at reports that you'll not find anywhere else in the world.
	And I do apologise, Howard, for the audio because I'm listening to myself every time I speak.
	I think you've done fantastically well, bearing in mind the problem that we both know that you've got with the feed.
	The great Paul Sinclair, before that, Congressman Tim Burchett, and the David Groosh revelations, the fallout, and possibly the ramifications thereof, as they say.
	More great guests in the pipeline here at the home of the unexplained online.
	So until we meet again, my name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained in the Heat and the Sunshine.
	Please stay safe.
	Please stay calm.
	And above all, whatever you do, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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