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June 3, 2023 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
58:02
Edition 728 - Ron James Exclusive
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Well, I'm hoping that everything is good with you.
The weather in London as I record these words at the beginning of June is utterly glorious.
We've had a pretty nice week so far.
A couple of days where it's been a little cloudy, but mostly lovely and sunny.
And at the moment, the trees are swaying and I can see a clear blue sky.
Now, before we get to the guest on this edition, and this is going to be a very important one that we're about to do here, just a little programming note.
I know that the podcast hasn't been available on a number of portals for a little while, including Apple Podcasts, which is obviously the biggest and most important of them.
The podcast is available every edition on the website, theunexplained.tv, but I know that on Apple Podcasts, as I speak these words, and that may be about to change, stopped being available, I think, at the beginning of May.
Now, I don't know anything about IT.
When I was at school, we had calculators and the first BBC microcomputers were coming in.
So, you know, I literally know very little about any of this, and I depend on Adam for everything that he's done for me.
At the moment, he's occupied with a lot of very pressing stuff that I won't go into, but he's not able to sort this out right at this second.
But it is being looked into, and it will be fixed as soon as possible.
But for the moment, Adam is putting every edition of The Unexplained on the website, theunexplained.tv.
So that's the place to go.
And my thanks to Adam for his hard work on, you know, the website and all the shows for all of these years.
Guest on this edition, a man called Ron James.
His documentary, Accidental Truth UFO Revelations, is a must-see.
Now, I've seen an awful lot of UFO documentaries.
Some of them have absolutely amazed me.
Some have underwhelmed me over the years.
This one utterly astonished me with the breadth and depth and quality of the material.
And I would say that if you're looking for a one-stop shop to introduce you to where we're at at the moment in 2023 and also bring you up to speed with all of the main issues, this has to be it.
And I say that not as somebody with any kind of interest in this documentary, just as somebody who's been impressed as a journalist by it.
So Accidental Truth, UFO Revelations, Ron James, the maker of that documentary, is going to be on this show.
Thank you very much for all of the nice things you've said on my Facebook page, the official Facebook page of The Unexplained with Howard Hughes.
I'm keeping things going at the moment.
I'm getting slowly sorted out after the fire here at my home.
I had a big trip to the tip, as I think I explained on edition 725 or 726.
And there's an awful lot more to do, but, you know, I'm kind of getting there.
And it's nice to see the sunshine.
Right, I'm not going to do any more talking.
We have important things to discuss here.
Ron James, the guest of the United States, his documentary, Accidental Truth, UFO Revelations.
Ron, thank you very much for coming on my show.
Thank you, Howard.
Thanks for having me on from Across the Pond.
Well, listen, not only Across the Pond, but you're at one of the biggest UFO UAP gatherings in the world, Contact in the Desert, the daddy of them all.
Tell me what it's like.
Well, you know, it's at this beautiful resort.
The event is under new management, and they're friends of mine, and they're just doing a fantastic job.
It's a great vibe.
And I've just finished setting up my booth.
They're going to be premiering my movie, Accidental Truth, on Sunday night.
They're going to have a special screening.
That's enormously exciting.
Enormously exciting because, you know, what we have to tell people if they don't know already, and I'm sure that most of my audience does, is that the great and the good of this field are all going to be there.
Yeah, I mean, pretty much anybody who's notable in the field is here with few exceptions.
And it's just, you know, I just feel like I'm around my people.
It's really neat.
And is there an excitement?
I can hear the birds singing in the desert too.
Is there an excitement there that, you know, current events seem to be drawing us towards something?
Now, maybe that something is just another false dawn.
But a lot of people are thinking that maybe, no, this is something different this time.
Is there a buzz there?
There's definitely a buzz.
And I think that, you know, we're certainly going to be getting some form of disclosure.
Is it going to be the truth of everything that everybody knows?
Probably never going to get that.
But I think that they're pretty much freely admitting that there's these things operating in our airspace.
We don't know what they are, supposedly.
And it's only a matter of time until they have to come forward and say, look, these are non-human.
And that's when it gets very interesting.
A lot of luminaries, including yourself in this field, are appearing at Contact in the Desert.
Is it getting the kind of mainstream media interest that perhaps it didn't get in previous years?
Well, you know, ever since 2017, when the story broke in the New York Times, it's been getting a lot.
And now it seems to be getting even more.
NASA just came out with that meeting.
They had another hearing, and it's definitely in the headlines.
The press loves the story, and certainly it has more credibility now than ever before because we have official government statements acknowledging this stuff and pilots testifying.
And it's about to get way more interesting with whistleblowers coming forward to Congress.
And it's going to happen at an accelerated rate.
And Danny Sheehan, the lawyer and civil rights activist, I guess you could call him, who's worked with people like Lou Elizondo, he's in your documentary.
He says that at the moment, I think he's working with something like six whistleblowers.
Of course, they can't be identified.
You know, that's pretty exciting, too.
It's pretty exciting.
And Danny Sheehan's here, and I talked to him yesterday.
And yeah, this is a really exciting time.
Do ask him if you get a moment.
I'm sure you won't, but if you do get a moment, ask him if he'd like to appear on my show because I've been watching and reading some stuff from him.
Really, really interesting guy.
Let's talk about your documentary.
And to set it into context, we are speaking in the week that there were the NASA sessions on this, or rather this very long NASA session.
And, you know, I think it interested and excited some people, but it also frustrated them because it seems to me that if we were to come up with, and I think the session was something like four hours long, it was a long one, but the reduction of what it said was we need better data, which is an extraordinary conclusion because, you know, haven't we been gathering data, if not disclosing it, for decades?
You would think so.
Yeah, so here's the thing: this whole, these guys that you see on TV, even the scientists that's running this new program that testified before the Senate, these guys aren't read in.
They don't know what's really going on.
They're handed a pile of data.
But the people that actually know the truth behind all of this, and I think there's very few of them left that have the whole picture, they're not coming in and saying, look, here's some pictures from 1945 and 1947.
This is what's been going on.
These are the reverse engineering programs that we've been doing, and this is the information we have.
These guys aren't getting that.
Even Lue Elizondo doesn't have that.
And so, you know, what you're dealing with and you're seeing in the public is basically just a bunch of people that are being led down a wild goose chase when the people that have the real information have no intention of sharing it.
And, you know, one of the things that Danny Sheehan says impacted on me last weekend when I heard a clip of him talking to somebody.
He said that the problem with it is that the powers that be who may know the truth shut down this information by saying we're interested in the way that it performs, the aerodynamic capabilities of it, you know, how it looks, whether it's square, whether it's triangular, whatever.
But the one question that they make sure is always steered away from is the question of what might be controlling whatever it is.
Yeah, and, you know, obviously, because crossing that line, like we say in the film Accidental Truth, it's the A word, you know, alien.
Nobody wants to say it.
And, you know, part of the reason nobody wants to actually come out and say that word is that maybe there's so much more operating in this phenomenon than we know.
And there could be an extraterrestrial element to it.
There probably is, but there could be so much more.
And so this definitive, yes, they're extraterrestrials from outer space, that seems to be the line nobody wants to cross.
And nobody's wanted to cross it for a long time.
And so it's definitely strange.
Before we talk about the documentary, why do you think then we are where we are?
Why are we in an era which a lot of us never thought we'd live to see, where we've got NASA doing what it did this week, where we've had a couple of Washington hearings, where we had a classified report and an unclassified report.
Why are we here if there has been so much secrecy about this?
Do you think that there is an agenda that is being led somehow now?
Yeah, I do believe there's an agenda that's being led.
And, you know, we're at a time when the technological advancement and things like commercial space flight, things like the Webb Telescope, pretty soon it's just not going to be a secret that can easily be covered up.
I mean, sooner or later, Elon Musk is going to land a spaceship on Mars and he's going to do his own studies and he's going to come to the conclusion that there was life on Mars at one point, maybe now.
So they're just not going to be able to continue to masquerade and dance around the topic.
And the other thing is that it's so prevalent and so right in our face at this point that it's hard to hide.
And so they've either got to get in front of it and start telling us something, or it's going to become so obvious that there's no hiding it, and then they're going to have to explain that.
And the problem.
And of course, just to jump in here, sorry for that, but if it came out by itself, then that almost makes the powers that be, as we might call them, the authorities, the governments, it makes them look impotent.
Absolutely.
And the thing is, is maybe they are.
And the other thing about this is that we're dealing with something that's been here for a long time.
And what we're seeing now, this sudden disclosure, or I won't even call it disclosure, this sudden openness.
We've seen this before.
This was in the 1950s, as we point out in Accidental Truth, that General John Sanford came out and said some of the same things that they're saying now, almost verbatim.
So it's not like we're getting some big sudden openness.
We're getting a repeat performance of something that happened almost 70 years ago.
And we're getting a little more information.
But at the end of the day, we're getting what's called the new narrative.
We're getting a story that says, oh, look, in 2004, we started seeing these things.
How interesting.
When really this has been going on for 100 years.
And so they're telling us a new story.
They're creating a vehicle for the information of the past to be brought into the public that doesn't leave anybody accountable for the lies and the deception of history.
And so, yes, it's all manipulated, Howard.
So, Ron, are you convinced then that at this stage in the game, they're not just involved in an exercise which we've seen before of kicking the can down the road?
You think that this really means something now?
No, I think there's a, you know, what we're seeing play out in the media is literally an internal battle among people that are controlling this information.
Some of them want more information to come out, and some of them will fight that tooth and nail as long as they possibly can.
And so this is not a unified front that we're seeing.
This is definitely a battle.
It's like when Lou Elizondo came out with his story, the Pentagon rebuffed him.
They said, oh, no, he didn't run that program.
They lied.
And so there is different elements and different factions that have possession of different levels of information, and they all have different agendas and different beliefs in what people should know.
What comes out of the documentary, and we'll talk about the genesis of the documentary in just a second, but on the subject of Lou Elizondo, the man who ran ATIP, what comes out very clearly from the documentary, and you've got some wonderful material with him and others, is that when he got too close to it, when he started talking about it, somebody in the Pentagon panicked.
That's all you can describe it as.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, when Chris and Lou and the whole thing happened in 2017 with Ralph Blumenthal and the New York Times, I think they'd been given a Certain window to go ahead and put this out, but there was opposition.
And then the election and all of the turmoil around that, and there was a lot of things that happened that basically gave the opposition a little opportunity to catch a breather, get off their back feet, and go on the offensive to try and stop this.
And so that's what we saw play out.
And in a lot of ways, it's what we're still seeing play out.
People trying to discredit Lou.
We've done a lot of research, and he is who he says he is, and he did what he said he did.
But there's still an effort to minimize his credibility.
So, yeah, we're witnessing literally an infighting about this stuff.
At the same time, we're getting this stovepipe dog and pony show of all these people that come out and say, oh, yeah, we're a new group studying this.
They're given very little information, and then they get to say, well, that's not within our, that's not within our scope, even though it should be.
So, yeah, the whole thing is just a big performance.
And, of course, those who may want to mute or, you know, silence, well, silence is a big word, but, you know, sideline Lou Elizondo, you know, they have an ace up their sleeve, don't they?
Because they know that this man is A, a patriot and B, he is bound by the protocols of the office that he held.
Yeah, you know, once you're in the intelligence community to the point that Lou was, both civilian and military, you never stop working.
And one of the things that I asked Lou point blank in the interview that we did that's not in the doc, obviously, but, you know, he won't deny that because there's no line between are you working or are you not?
Once you're that echelon of intelligence, you are a company man, and that's who you're going to be, and that's what you're going to do.
You're going to toe the line.
And does he have good intentions towards disclosure?
I think personally he does.
And I don't have anything bad to say about Lou.
But is he still working?
If I had to ask Venture a guess, I would say certainly.
He knows what he can say and what he can't say and when he should do it.
And to quote the Eagles, you know, if you work in intelligence, I think we know that you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.
Well, that's it.
And, you know, there's nothing wrong with that.
When I first set out to make the movie, I was actually a little bit angry at people like Lou and Chris and these guys that have this information and won't tell us.
I mean, to me, it's like you're holding the keys to the future of human understanding.
And I'm sitting in this room with you and you're not going to tell me.
And that made me mad.
But over the year and a half that I was editing the film and shooting more interviews with more people, my stance kind of softened a little bit.
And I understood that, you know, that might be true and it might suck that that's how you feel about not getting the info.
But this is a guy who's sworn an oath and it's not his role within his chain of command and his structure to be the guy that does that unless he has permission.
So thank God we have people that honor their oaths and honor their word like that, even though it's very, very inconvenient and a little bit upsetting.
I know you must be so excited at having a screening of your documentary at Contact in the Desert.
You know, that to me is like a pinnacle for you, and it'll be a wonderful weekend, I'm certain.
Let's talk about the documentary then.
My first thought, and I'm going to beg your forgiveness for this, when I was suggested or when it was suggested that I have a conversation about another UFO-UAP documentary, I thought, oh, well, here we go again.
What's new?
And I started watching it and I thought, okay, we're going down some familiar territory here.
And then as I continued to watch within five minutes, 10 minutes, I realized that I was into something really special.
And I came out of the documentary feeling that if anybody needs, A, a primer on this subject and B, needs to get themselves fully up to speed with this issue and the main players in it, you know, your documentary is the one-stop shop.
I think it is excellent.
Well, thank you, Howard.
You know, I tried to do that.
I tried to make a film that, because a lot of people come and they ask me, because I'm the media relations director for MUFON, so I talk to the press all the time.
And they asked me questions like, if there was one documentary I could watch or one book I could read that would bring the average person up to speed on this topic, is there one?
And I didn't really feel like there was.
And so I had new information, obviously.
And other people in the UFO field, they're like, well, we've seen all this before.
And I'm like, well, you haven't, but indulge me for the history lesson because in the first part of the film, I do have to go back to the beginning and kind of rehash stuff.
But I even tried to keep that fresh.
And once you get about a half hour into it, it really starts to unfold.
I mean, I was, within 10 minutes, I was thinking, how did this guy get all this material?
And this must have taken forever to put together.
With your permission, I've got a couple of clips from the documentary, very short audio clips.
And the first one is Ron Moultrie, or is it Moultrie, Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, who's on the documentary?
Is it Moultrie?
Yeah, it's pronounced Moultrie.
Ron Moultrie.
All right, let's just hear very quickly what he has to say, because I think it's important.
Got 14 seconds of it.
We know that our service members have encountered unidentified aerial phenomena.
And because UAPs pose potential flight safety and general security risk, we are committed to a focused effort to determine their origin.
That sounds good.
We are committed to a focused effort to determine their origin.
How are they doing?
Well, you know, it's like if they didn't already know at least more about their origin than they're telling us, it would be admirable.
But as we point out in the film, that's an almost verbatim quote as an Air Force general 75 years ago saying the exact same thing.
So it's like, I don't know what these guys are doing, honestly, except putting on a show for people that's going to result in some kind of, you know, hey, maybe there's a non-human intelligence engaging us, but the way they're going about it is to basically tell the same old story again with new characters.
And I just hope that the story gets further down the road this time.
Because we're at their mercy, honestly, Howard.
We can dig up the kind of information that I present in Accidental Truth.
And hopefully people will watch It and then they'll understand that when they're watching these NASA hearings or they're watching these guys in front of the Capitol talking to senators and House Representatives, they'll realize that it is what it is and that there's so much more to it and that we know the depth of the story.
But we're not getting it from these guys.
Why do you think NASA is involved?
I don't know.
Didn't it crack you up when all of a sudden NASA makes an announcement that they're going to start looking at UAPs?
It's like, you know, come on, man.
The same people that have been covering up life on Mars, the same people that have been retouching photographs, the same people that have been burying reports of astronauts having encounters, they're going to start looking at UFOs.
It's laughable, honestly.
And yet, what we saw on Wednesday of the week that I'm recording this, we're recording this on Friday, you know, we saw some pretty earnest contributions, didn't we?
Sure, because if you bring in a bunch of people that are skeptical of the UFO topic to begin with, and you put them in a room and you give them a little bit of information that you happen to have, and you say, this is what we have, you know, start chewing on it, they're going to start chewing on it.
So if you give them some anomalous videos and you give them some things that can't be explained, they're only going to be able to respond to the input that they receive.
And that's what we're seeing across this whole new openness towards investigation is that it's a bunch of people being put in different boxes and given a certain amount of stuff to look at, but they can only come to conclusions based on what they're given.
So it's like say you wanted to make a documentary about traveling the world, but you never left your hometown.
That's kind of what we're dealing with here is these people are given enough information to come to certain conclusions, but nobody's reading them into the whole thing.
I guarantee you, nobody on that NASA panel has been taken to see a craft under the process of reverse engineering.
None of them, not a single one.
And none of them are being told that, well, maybe, but they don't know.
And so they're sitting there making these earnest attempts, and it looks good for the public, but they can't do anything if they don't know the truth.
So, you know, it's basically a show, and it's being used as a vehicle.
What'll happen is bubbling up through one of these things will be, oh, look, we think these things are AI robots, like Gary Nolan says.
And this is something they've known for 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, but they'll use one of these little stovepipe compartmentalized groups to bubble this information up to the public like they just discovered it.
And that way they can whitewash the past.
And Accidental Truth, the documentary is about not allowing them to whitewash 100 years of research, reverse engineering, and events.
And I guess not allowing them to news manage the situation.
One of the great things you do is, you know, there may be those, there will be those, who think, you know, what happened between the end of Project Blue Book and the contemporary era?
You know, the stuff that we read about in the New York Times and stuff like that more recently.
You know, there seems to be a great void there.
And you addressed that.
What was going on in that period?
This is like sort of 1960 when Blue Book ended and say the next 35, 40 years.
Well, yeah, after the Roswell era where the first really organized responses to crashes and debris recovery and others, there was a whole program to port this stuff off into industry and to analyze it and reverse engineer it.
And it's been going on for that whole period of time.
And the new narrative, as we call it in the movie, is designed to whitewash that past so that they don't have to admit that they had this stuff and they don't have to admit that they've been studying it and they don't have to admit that either A, they can't figure it out or B, they've developed technology from it.
So accidental truth is really about filling in that gap that they're trying to create and not allowing them to whitewash the past.
And we do a pretty good job of delivering what they found, what they researched, what they discovered, where it might have been, who might have been involved in it.
We have an Air Force colonel, I mean an Army colonel that pops up and finally admits that he was running a secret program the whole time he was telling people no program existed.
So there's a lot of really fresh, mind-blowing information in the movie.
And then, of course, it's narrated by Matthew Modine.
I mean, how cool is that?
I didn't know I thought that.
How did you get him?
It's a long story, but I had hired somebody to help me get a narrator.
And originally we were getting Edward James Almost from Battlestar Galactica and Miami Vice.
And his lawyer kind of put a little fear of God into him about making a film that basically defied the government.
And I think he got scared of it.
But Matthew wasn't afraid.
He was actually at Comic-Con in Europe.
And one of my friends brought it up to him.
And he's actually had an encounter before.
And he was interested.
And then when he found out more about the project, he signed on.
And when he saw the finished film, he was so happy with it that he's been just invaluable in helping to support it with his good word.
That's very, very nicely done.
It's the icing on the cake of the documentary, really, I think.
Did he talk to you about his own encounter?
Yeah, you know, I didn't want him to phone in the voiceover.
It was a really complicated script with a lot of big words.
And so instead of just having him read it and send it to me, I flew to New York and him and I spent two days in the studio together.
And we had breakfast and we had some interesting conversations.
And yeah, so he's, you know, I'll let him tell the story, but he's seen something that, you know, it's like once you see something that is very concrete in your mind, there's no turning back.
You can't unconvince yourself that you saw it.
Now, we've talked a lot on my shows about exotic materials, and often we've just used the phrase exotic materials, and we don't really go much further than that, especially when you're talking about Roswell and that flexible material that, you know, allegedly was discovered and maybe bits of it were Kept or whatever.
And I'm very impressed with the fact that you go into specifics here about some of this material that might have been back engineered.
There's something called nitinol or nitinol, a shape-changing metallic material, nitinol, which is thought might have derived from Roswell, supposedly invented in a naval lab in 1959, but its origins go back, don't they, an awful lot further.
They do.
They go back to a place called Battelle Memorial Institute, which was under contract with Wright-Patterson Air Force Base to study materials and develop materials.
And there was a scientist there.
I can't remember his name.
We didn't use it in the film, but he is credited with developing titanium alloys, which nitinol is.
And titanium wasn't really a big metal that was getting a lot of attention until this contract with Wright-Pat.
And then the nitinol shapeshifting memory retaining alloy that came out of Battelle was sent to the Naval Weapons Research Laboratories, where they then said that they invented it, but they didn't.
It came out of the Roswell era, right out of Wright-Patterson.
This is exactly where people say that stuff is.
Well, exactly.
There's the Blue Room, isn't there, which is said to be underground, which is like a repository of the bodies and the materials.
We uncovered a freedom.
There has long been a rumor that somebody came in with a film camera and shot the contents of the blue room.
And for years, numerous people tried to get access to that footage.
And they denied that it existed.
And it was just a maze trying to get to it.
But finally, one guy actually had a Freedom of Information Act request that got a response from an Air Force media repository that had a record of this film, the Blue Room Project.
And the film was supposedly destroyed, but we were at least able to prove that it existed in the first place, which was quite a fine.
When I saw that part of the documentary, I thought to myself, I find it hard to believe that film like that would be destroyed and that somebody somewhere doesn't have a copy.
You know, I used to think that, but I've come to realize over the course of making this documentary that the military and the government have no problem destroying evidence.
You know, you could take, for example, war crimes in a war zone.
They'll just wipe out all the evidence that it ever happened.
And I'm really concerned that this could be the case with a lot of UFO evidence.
Just it never happened, wipe it.
And they do.
And it's shocking to me that they have no regard for history, but we might be dealing with some of that.
But if that place exists and it's full of all of the good stuff, do you find it astonishing that, especially as they would be getting up in years now, some of the people who worked there first don't put out deathbed confessions, I guess you could call them?
Well, you know, I think there's repercussions that are threatened that extend to your family.
It's like you might be on your deathbed ready to die, but you do want your son to go to college, don't you?
You know, the bigger the secret, the bigger the threat to keep it a secret.
And so, you know, some of these people might be patriots to the death.
I think there's a certain group that is very prideful that they're taking their secrets to the grave.
And to them, it's the last ultimate patriotic act.
So it's not surprising that there's not more of those.
But I think that as the whistleblower atmosphere gets easier, we're going to see more and more people coming forward.
There's new laws now that are protecting these guys.
And from what I hear, there's going to be a groundswell of people coming forward very soon.
Well, I'm hoping that's the case, and I'm certainly hearing that too.
One of the things that is often asked is, you know, how can they keep the lid on material like this?
And you've just alluded to some of the ways that that can be done by threatening your family, by threatening your honor and reputation and all the rest of it.
But you also do something that I haven't seen elsewhere.
You talk about the origins of the so-called men in black and the air intelligence squadrons.
Yeah, you know, that's another piece of, I considered it to be fairly new information, but we have Paul Hynek, who was the son of J. Allen Hynek, and who ran Project Blue Book.
He lived it.
He was in the house with dad the whole time this was going on.
And he came to understand, especially as he grew up, that Project Blue Book was basically a smokescreen and that they had an entire other organization that was doing the real investigations.
And this is a documented group.
And we really think that the men in black stories came from these guys.
And there would be a group of Project Blue Book would go off doing this public investigation.
At the same time, an entire team, a larger, more funded team of investigators, military officers, and scientists were flying off doing concurrent investigations that basically that nobody knew about.
And that group continued to do this stuff after Project Blue Book officially ended, and it grew into what is probably a very vast organization.
And they seem to be the cleanup team, the ones who are sent in to shut down reports, to shut down cases, you know, after the you think official people have arrived and gone from Washington, this lock turnup.
Yes, absolutely.
And that's been documented.
And so, yeah, the whole thing from the project from the Roswell era all the way up until this new openness in 2017, the water is muddied.
They don't want people to know the real truth, but they do want people to have the information about, okay, well, you know, traversable wormhole technology studies.
Well, how did we even know there was such a thing as a traversable wormhole?
They don't really want to have to explain that to anybody.
But, you know, somebody in the 1950s thought up all these technologies.
Of course, they didn't think them up.
They saw examples of things doing things they couldn't explain.
And then they started trying to come up with, well, what could possibly be at play here?
And so there's a whole bunch of stuff that we talk about that came out from the Defense Intelligence Agency about A variety of different technologies that we don't have, and then we bring in Dr. Michio Kaku, who's obviously arguably one of the most famous scientists in the world.
And he says, Yeah, this stuff is possible, but we're not going to have it for a hundred thousand years.
So we're the whole thing is very convoluted.
But hopefully, films like The Accidental Truth, UFO Revelations, does not leave them a lot more room to muddy the waters.
Ron, your documentary features many people, including the late Dr. Edgar Mitchell, Apollo astronaut and a man who said more than many of the astronauts on these things.
If I may, you have an interview with him, clips from an interview, that you say had never been aired before they appeared on your documentary.
I've got about 14 seconds of him speaking.
Do you mind if I play that now?
No, that would be fine.
All right, let's do it.
Individuals at the Pentagon had been attempting to get into the system and find out about it, thus confirming, and had confirmed that the Raj Road was real.
They saw some of the material from a crash spacecraft.
Some saw bodies from the beings that were killed in that crash.
So, you know, there you have it, as they say over here from the horse's mouth, that this stuff has a history that is decades long.
Absolutely.
And, you know, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, when he came back from the moon mission, he was a changed man.
He had a spiritually transformative experience coming back in the space capsule.
And he went on to found the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
And he was very outspoken about his own personal investigation into Roswell.
He grew up in Roswell.
And when he started going and using his connections to ask the right people the right questions, the whole thing was confirmed to him.
And, you know, this is an astronaut.
Do you have any idea what it takes to rise above the crowd and make it to the moon?
I mean, this guy, the cream of the crop in every category.
So he's unassailable as far as his integrity.
And the interview that I put in the film, I shot that interview myself.
And yeah, I never published it.
So it's never been seen before.
Why did it stay on the reps?
I just waited for the right time to use it.
I've been shooting interviews and stuff with people in the field since 2007.
And I probably have 100 hard drives full of unpublished material.
So we can expect more.
Yeah, at some point, I'm going to be doing something with all of it.
I mean, look, watching your documentary is a little bit like watching one of the old Muhammad Ali fights.
You know, back in the day, there'd be another punch, and then there'd be the knockout blow, there'd be something else then.
Because you keep coming out with stuff.
You have some material, I think it's film, of Senator Barry Goldwater from 1965 saying that a spaceship landed, he tried to get the truth, and he tried to get to see that secret blue room at Wright Pat.
That's astonishing material.
Yeah, and, you know, he went to Curtis LeMay.
They were actually friends.
Curtis LeMay was running Wright-Patterson at the time.
And when he asked Curtis LeMay about the Blue Room, LeMay blew up at him.
And, you know, it's pretty well documented that Curtis LeMay knew about Roswell.
And in his later years, he would make some references to it when asked privately.
But yeah, it's just so interesting how there's these things that happened years ago that people have forgotten about.
And so every once in a while in the film, we bring this stuff up to point out that this has been going on for a long time and that what we're seeing today unfold, in a lot of ways, is nothing new.
It's just a rewrite.
Do you think there are in this day and age enough politicians engaged with this important issue?
You have somebody who appears on my show regularly, Congressman Tim Burchett.
He's on and is very good in the documentary.
You refer to Senator Harry Reid, but are there enough people in 2023 engaged with it?
Well, you know, the Mutual UFO network that I'm involved in has been working with a lobbying firm in Washington, D.C. And we were the group that got Andre Carson to have those hearings in the first place.
We suggested it, that we worked with them to make it happen.
And some of the legislation that's come forward, we've helped with some of the wording.
So we're very proud of the work we're doing in D.C. And the bottom line is that most of these politicians, they're just as curious about this as we are.
And they know that they're being lied to, and they know that they're being excluded from the information, and they're not happy about it.
And so there is definitely a contingent in Washington, D.C. that wants information.
But I had lunch with Andre Carson about three months ago, sat next to him for an hour talking about this stuff.
And he's basically like, yeah, we know that the public's being lied to.
We know that we're being lied to.
But we've also seen stuff behind closed doors that is classified.
And we understand that it needs to stay classified.
So yes, we have a body politic that is interested in the topic and wants more information to come out.
But they're also taken into these rooms and shown a little something here and there that tells them we can't really be just broadcasting the whole truth to the public for whatever reason.
Well, at the very end of the documentary, there is a suggestion of what that reason might be, that there might be national security implications.
If you reveal what you have discovered and what you know, you might be giving away, you know, secrets to an enemy, foreign or domestic.
Well, that's all true.
And then, of course, there's the whole idea that what do we do when we say, can we go to the public and say we don't have any control over these things?
We can't defend ourselves against them.
We don't know what they want.
We're helpless.
So that's a tough place to have to go when you're the government.
What about Dr. Gary Nolan?
You referred to him obliquely just before.
At Stanford University, he came up with the spectrometry technology that was used on some of these exotic materials.
How would you summarize his contribution to the documentary?
Well, you know, he's awesome, and he told me some things off-camera that were very interesting.
He definitely confirmed that there is exotic materials that appears to have been created off-planet, rumors of a craft.
He's now going public saying that he believes that these are some kind of artificial intelligence drones that are running around the planet that have a non-human origin.
In the film, he gives us one of those accidental truths where, you know, I basically kind of pinned him down about saying two different things in two different interviews about materials he was studying and confronted him point blank.
Are you studying these materials or not?
And his response was as telling as you could get.
It's definitely what there's several moments in the film that lead itself to the title Accidental Truth.
And when people watch it, if they're paying attention, it's priceless.
It's like those MasterCard moments.
Priceless.
What do you think?
What do you hope will happen on the release of this documentary?
What impact do you think it will have?
Well, I hope people will come to understand that it's a historical document that documents a very important place in time.
And as more and more people get curious about the topic, you can watch NASA, you can watch Congress, and you can believe what you want to believe.
But if you want to know the truth, watch Accidental Truth.
It gives you the information that you need to understand better what's going on.
And I think we lay it out.
You know, there's so many UFO documentaries, and I'm not going to speak out and say anything bad about anybody's films, but there's wild speculation.
There's things that can't be proven.
With Accidental Truth, I tried to take the approach that I was an attorney putting this case in front of a jury.
It's all very solid evidence-based.
There's not a lot of room to attack what we're saying.
And we're also not expecting people to believe anything we're saying.
We put this out.
We try in most cases to present multiple sides of the story, and we let the audience make up their own mind.
We don't call anybody a liar, but you can certainly tell that in the film, a lot of people are not telling the truth.
But we're not saying that.
We leave it up to you.
And then the evidence trails official government documents backed up by circumstances that we know, backed up by the words of people that know whether they want to tell us or not.
It's a case, and the audience for this film is the jury, and everybody can make up their own minds.
But it's a snapshot in time, and I wanted to make the best one possible.
I'm glad you used that phrase.
You're a contact in the desert.
Is Steve Bassett from the Paradigm Research Group?
Is he there?
Oh, yeah, he's here.
I talked to him last night.
Right.
Give him my regards because Steve is on my show a lot.
He's helped me a great deal over the years.
Steve is very excited.
I mean, Steve is a very sober man.
He's not one for getting excited, but he is excited now at the state that we are in, at the position we are in at this point in history.
He thinks some very big things are coming down the track very soon.
Do you share that with him, that feeling?
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I think that, you know, wheels are turning in Washington.
Things are happening, and it's only a matter of time until we get some more definitive stuff.
But we have to kind of look at this and say, well, we might get disclosure that there's non-human intelligence engaging us, and how is that going to change humanity?
And really, it's going to be the context of it that makes that decision for us.
It's like, if we're told, yeah, there's aliens or whatever, there's non-human intelligence engaging us, they're here.
But, you know, they do their thing.
We do ours.
We don't really have any contact.
We don't think they're harmful or threatening.
Well, that's one thing.
People are pretty much going to go, yeah, I knew it, and go about their business.
But if it's, you know, they're here, we've had incidents of aggression.
We're helpless against their technology.
We don't know what they want.
And even if we did, there's nothing we can do.
Well, now that's going to be a tough pill for humanity to swallow.
So I think we have to tread very carefully.
And, you know, sometimes, you know, be careful what you wish for.
You just might get it.
So I'm hoping that whatever this revelation is, that it's got a happy ending.
And they've got to find, if they're revealing this stuff or having to reveal this stuff, they have to find a mechanic for the truth, which is, for years we lied.
Yeah, and see, that's why we're seeing this new narrative, because they're trying to whitewash that.
They want to come up with a story that says, oh, look, this is just happening.
Look what we just found out.
Because they have to cover up for the fact that they've been lying for this whole time and people would be accountable for that.
And if there's technology that's been suppressed, well, that's almost a crime against humanity.
So they've got to get the information out.
At the same time, they have to cover themselves.
And that's what we're seeing.
And that's why I made Accidental Truth to not let them do that.
And it's to your credit, you also, towards the end of the documentary, include a whole segment, which I recommend people watch intently and watch more than once, on whether we're dealing with something extraterrestrial, interdimensional, ultraterrestrial, even a direct interaction with consciousness.
You know, all of those things come into play here, but when most ordinary people on the street think about this issue, they think about spacemen, space people.
They don't think about those other things.
And you address that.
Yeah, it's really important to address it because what we're seeing is there's so many elements to it that one particular thing is not going to be able to explain it.
You can't say, okay, it's definitely aliens and nothing else.
It's angels and demons and nothing else.
It's this or that.
There's so many varied experiences, and some of them do seem to just directly interact with the brain and with consciousness and with individuals on an individual level.
If we don't learn anything else from this, even if we never find out what these things are, it's teaching us about some of the fundamental building blocks of our consciousness and the nature of reality and where we live and what this is.
It's just fascinating.
And the rabbit hole is deep and vast.
And we are only scratching the surface.
And there's so much information in this documentary.
You talk about the experiencer phenomenon.
I've spoken with dozens, scores of experiencers over the years.
But You look at what sets them apart from everybody else who hasn't been an experiencer.
Yeah, Gary Nolan made a very interesting discovery about an area of the brain that seems to be excited and more developed in people that are having these experiences.
And it opens up the door to, as he postulates, you know, there could be all kinds of ways that information is transferred that we don't know, and that perhaps the human brain has figured out a way to latch onto that.
And that's what we're seeing.
And so when people are having telepathic experiences, you know, any kind of psychic experiences, any kind of encounters, you know, non-physical encounters with other beings, it's beginning to look like we're able to trace mechanisms that are happening in physical reality to make that possible.
And that's just absolutely amazing.
You know, I'm probably going to quote the Bible badly here, but the quote is that blessed are those who have not seen yet believed.
In your life, have you seen?
Not really.
You know, I think that if there's such a thing as fate and we all come here for a purpose, I think that, you know, my purpose is to get this information and put it out to people in a way that people can absorb it.
And I would have a very colored opinion had I been an experiencer or had I had some of these things happen.
It wouldn't make it possible for me to be objective.
So I think that my lot in life is as kind of a journalist to deliver this stuff.
And if I'm having these kind of experiences, they're wiping my memory, so I'm not there.
True enough.
I've been a journalist all my life.
I've spent a couple of decades on news desks doing bulletins.
So that's what I come from.
And I have to say that the clarity with which you present all of this is incredible, which is why I recommend that people see your documentary.
Last question, really, as I speak with you, I can't, you know, we're only doing this in sound.
I can't imagine what it's like to be actually at contact in the desert in that wonderful venue.
But last question for you, Ron, is do you think we are ready for the truth?
It's one thing revealing the truth or having the truth come out, but is the human race ready for this?
The extent of the truth, I don't think we're ready for it because we are never going to be able to comprehend it.
Now, are we ready for the truth that we're not alone in the universe?
I think most people know that instinctively.
Are we ready for the truth that there's something interacting with us here on the planet?
Probably.
But the ultimate truth to all of this boils down to the nature of our existence and really our insignificance in the universal scheme of things.
I don't know if we're ready for that.
I don't know if we can even absorb it.
Most people don't have the mental bandwidth to start comprehending the vastness of all of this.
And I think it's above our pay grade as a species to really, really understand what the truth is.
In fact, I've got four pages of A4 notes here.
And one of the things I wrote down in bold capitals was, maybe we're just not intelligent enough as a species to understand this yet.
Yeah, I think that's right.
John Alexander, I don't know if I used it in the movie.
I think I did.
He says, you know, we're not at the stage where we're asking the right questions yet.
And I think that's probably very true.
When we talked about Edgar Mitchell, you said that you'd kept that interview for use at the right time and you have a lot of material.
Are you going to be doing a follow-up or a sequel?
Well, we're definitely going to be doing, at the website for the film, we're creating something called AT Insider that's going to have some of the full-length interviews and some of the material that obviously can't make it into a film.
It's going to depend on how the doc does.
You know, at the end of the day, I've made a lot of UFO content.
Maybe more finished hours of UFO-related material than anybody when you count all the conferences I've shot and produced.
I don't know if I have anything to add to the conversation after Accidental Truth.
It's kind of like my opus.
It's like my period on the end of a sentence.
That's a very, very brave thing to say because a lot of people, I don't doubt this is going to be enormously successful because it is so good.
The commercial pressure, if there is such a thing in this field, will be upon you to make the sequel and maybe do another.
Well, you know, that's possible, but I waited a lot.
My last UFO documentary that was actually a released film was called The Disclosure Dialogues in 2012.
And I was in no hurry to do it.
I didn't want to make another film just to sell DVDs.
I wanted to make something that moved the ball.
If I feel like I can make another one that moves the ball, I'll do it.
But if it's just something for the sake of making it and just being another film out there in the sea of films, I'm not interested in that.
Now, you know, my audience is primarily in the United Kingdom and the United States, but it's also in Australia and the Far East and various other places.
Just for people who can't conceive of where you are at the moment, can you just describe to me the location, where that place is and what it looks and feels like at the moment?
Thank you very much.
Yeah, so I'm sitting outside right now by the pool.
This is a gigantic resort in the middle of the desert in California.
It's absolutely beautiful.
It's landscaped meticulously throughout the whole place.
There's hundreds of rooms.
I'm looking at giant palm trees around a big grass field and beyond that, the swimming pool.
And people are walking past me going to the different sessions and everything.
It's very calm.
It's very beautiful.
And yeah, palm trees, green grass, fresh air, and just a calm, really cool vibe in a beautifully architecturally perfect place.
You said calm and cool.
You sound like a very relaxed guy.
I know there are pressures in doing what you do, but you sound very relaxed about it.
How are you going to feel as your film, your documentary, is screening to all of those luminaries in this field?
You're going to be a little nervous, aren't you?
Well, certainly.
I mean, you know, the film's already won 12 awards in film competitions and stuff.
And the first time I screened it in front of an audience, I was petrified.
I'm not so much Anymore.
This will be my third time to be sitting in a room with an audience watching it.
I have a little more confidence, but the process of making this film, between the headaches with being afraid of poking the government in the eye and some of the other things, there's been threats over this film.
There's been people that didn't want to see it come out.
It was really, really tough.
Who threatened you?
Without giving names.
Well, there were some clips that got used in there that I basically defied threats of being sued if I used the clips.
The distributor was threatened.
Yeah, there's just a lot of stuff that happened around this.
There's some interviews in there that I had to literally overcome challenges.
My interview that I shot, that I own, that I have a release for, still being contested as to whether I have the rights to use it.
So, you know, things like that that were just constantly having to be surmounted.
And, you know, the realization that I was under surveillance the whole time I was watching the film, I mean, the whole time I was making it, it was like living a real life cloak and dagger nightmare, frankly.
And, you know, I don't even want to get on the show and sound like one of these tinfoil hat conspiracy theory people.
But, you know, I lived through some pretty treacherous stuff, but it's done now.
Right.
And where you are at the moment, do you think that there will be anybody watching all of you there?
I don't think that anything happens in the UFO community without there being people keeping an eye on it.
I know that MUFON is surveilled and monitored.
They have been since the beginning.
It should be common sense that that would happen.
As one of their national directors, I know, you know, give up privacy because they're tracking everything you say and do.
And look, I have no doubt of the truth of what you're saying because it's a tiny example.
But years ago, I interviewed the former Defense Minister of Canada, you know, the person I'm talking with.
Paul Hellier.
Paul Hellier, who left us a couple of years back.
But, you know, he was a trenchant voice in this field.
And I remember doing the first UK interview with this guy when he came out, I think, in 2005 and said the things that he said.
And a week or so later, my show was late night on a Saturday night then.
I came out of the building near the Thames on the south bank with my producer, David, at the time.
And this was an area of London where there are no people at weekends because it's a Monday to Friday commerce area.
It's not a weekend area.
So there's never anybody around until this one night, a week after I spoke with Paul Hellier.
And opposite the radio station was what Americans call a jaguar, a jaguar car in black, and two guys who looked like the Blues brothers in dark suits with white shirts and black ties in the two front seats.
And they had a camera on the dashboard that followed us down the street.
So I have no doubt these things happen.
Oh, yeah, yeah, it really does.
But, you know, at the end of the day, there was a time when people would be, you know, they would kill people over this stuff.
I don't think we're really in that time now.
I think the rules are a little different.
You know, I made accidental truth fair and square.
I've got the information and I put it out.
But a lot of times people get called into these rooms and it's like, look, I'm going to tell you this information, but you can't share it.
And there's people in our field that have made that bargain.
And you can see because they're suddenly towing the line of the new narrative and you can tell who they are.
I never made that deal.
I went out and I fought for every scrap of information in that film and I earned it and I put it out with no compromise.
And so it is what it is.
Contact in the desert is a busy weekend for you.
I'm so grateful that you gave me time, Ron, and I wish you every success with it.
Do you have the right website for the film and for people that want to see it?
That's exactly what I was going to ask you.
If people want this, how do they get it?
You can, all over the world, if you just go to accidentaltruthswithans.com, there's a genie link you can click on that will kind of consolidate your viewing options.
It's on Amazon Prime.
It's on Apple iTunes.
It's on Vimeo.
Just look for Accidental Truths UFO Revelations and it'll pop up there.
But the website's the best place to, you can buy t-shirts and all kinds of other cool stuff.
It's accidental truthswithins.com.
It'll take you everywhere you need to go to further interact with it.
I think I wrongly, as many people will have done, referred to it as accidental truth.
It's accidental truths with an S UFO revelations.
Well, no, the film is called Accidental Truth.
The website that I could get, I couldn't get accidental truth, so I had to take the one with the ass.
Got you.
Yeah, no, we all have to make those compromises.
I've loved this conversation, Ron.
I wish you every success at Contact in the Desert.
Thank you.
Well, thank you, Howard, and thanks for bearing with the Skype and the noise and everything else.
But it's been a pleasure.
Well, we covered an awful lot of ground there.
My thanks to Ron James.
I wish him every success with his documentary, which is called Accidental Truth UFO Revelations.
It gets the full five-star review and the thumbs up from me.
I think it's one that you, if you're interested in any of this, if you want to know where we stand at the moment and what the main players have to say, this is the place to go as far as I'm concerned.
More great guests in the pipeline here at the home of the unexplained in the summertime.
So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained Online and please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and please stay in touch and enjoy the sunshine.
Take care.
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