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Feb. 12, 2023 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:03:29

Edition 700 - Maria Wheatley - Ancient Civilisations Update

A return visit to researcher/author Maria Wheatley in Wiltshire - we talk about strange "signals" at Stonehenge and the deep and unfolding mysteries of our ancient ancestors on the British Isles...at sites like Avebury...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Thank you very much for all of the emails and messages and notes of support that you've given me recently and questions for guests and guest suggestions.
	You can always make guest suggestions or any of those things by going to the website theunexplained.tv.
	Follow the link and you can send me an email from there in the usual way.
	And when you get in touch, please tell me who you are, where you are and how you use this show.
	Barry in Bebbington on the Wirral, nice to hear from you.
	Shout out wanted for Tom in Rockford, Michigan.
	Tom, nice to hear from you.
	Thank you for what you said.
	And there is your shout-out, Tom in Rockford, Michigan.
	Also, Valerie, listening on the Isle of Wight, who informs me that her birthday is on the 14th, isn't it, on Valentine's Day.
	Valerie, happy birthday for that.
	If you want a shout-out on the show, we sometimes get the space to be able to fit them in and happy to do them on the TV show or on the podcast here, which continues in Glorious Sound.
	Now, this is edition 700 of The Unexplained, as you may have noticed.
	There was a temptation to do a special and maybe speak to somebody different or just sit here and talk myself about it all.
	And I really thought, well, maybe 700 isn't right for that.
	Perhaps we should do that at 800 or maybe 1,000 podcasts and we do a great big wrap-up and look back.
	So I want this one to be business as usual, really.
	It's a milestone in its own way, of course.
	17 years in March it will be since I started it all.
	And I literally, if I do have an idea now, I certainly had very little idea then of how you do these things.
	And I just little by little bought little bits of equipment and learned my way round it and tried to use whatever journalistic skills that I picked up at work and did it that way.
	Of course, at the beginning, I was still working on news tasks.
	So in 2006, I was working at London Smooth Radio, doing the breakfast news there.
	And I think I was also doing some work at Talk Sport, various other things.
	And then a little later, I went to work at Global Radio, which was the headquarters of Cos of Capital Radio when I was there working with Chris Tarrant.
	I went back there and worked quite anonymously in news for a couple of years and decided to do other things, really.
	I decided that I'd done everything you can do in news, pretty much.
	I've written it in every way, read it in every style.
	And at the moment, I don't think there is any more that I could do.
	So I decided to do the brave thing and concentrate on things that I enjoy and things that I am learning at, which brings the podcast in and everything else that I do in this field.
	I might go back to doing some news one day, and occasionally, of course, if there's a big event, like the sad death of the Queen last year, then I go into news mode on the TV show.
	And if there was to be a big event on a Sunday night, then I would go back and use that journalistic training.
	But I chose another path.
	Now, that hasn't exactly been a huge whopping success for my bank balance, but for me and for where I'm at, it was entirely the right thing to do.
	So I hope you understand that.
	You know, as I look back over, and here I am doing it now, as I look back over 17 years, I can think of a lot of things that have changed in that time.
	Of course, a lot of our guests have left us.
	People like Al Bierlich from the Philadelphia experiment and Stanton T. Friedman and many other people from ufology, people who were there at the very beginning of it, have left us.
	They've got up in years and the inevitability of the cycle of life fulfills itself and, you know, they leave us and that's how things are.
	And of course, the greatest loss of all to me, and maybe to you too, if you're listening to this, Art Bell, the man who inspired me at the very beginning, died a few years ago.
	2018, wasn't it?
	It's now five years this year.
	And his loss is felt enormously.
	At least there are places where you can listen to his archive shows.
	And whenever I need inspiration, if I'm feeling depressed or down about it, or if I think, I think I have to give this up, I will turn on one of the old Art Bell shows.
	And I'll get inspiration there.
	You know, he had a much bigger operation, he had a big support team, and I don't have any of those things or either of those things.
	But in terms of inspiration, if you're looking for some, at any point then I would recommend him.
	And I wonder what he would make of this world of ours now, with its instability, the threats to it, both threats that we created and threats that are external.
	I wonder what Art Bell would have made about all of these things.
	You know, there is so much unfinished business there, I think.
	But if anybody connected with art is there, I don't know whether they ever hear or are aware of the material that I'm producing because Art Bell I was in contact with towards the end of his life.
	But, you know, if Art's family, Aaron in particular, you know, I just hope that they're getting along okay without the great man, as we all have to.
	We've had to find our way, but he was my guiding star in all of this and was certainly much better at any of it than I will ever be, but I will keep trying.
	At least I have something to aim for.
	That's a lot of talking.
	Nice day here in London.
	We've had a few nice days this week.
	I was a bit kind of down about things earlier this week, and there was a beautiful sunny day, and I looked at the blue sky, and I thought we don't get very much of that in London during the winter.
	So I closed the computer, put away my notes, went out, and I went walking and arrived in Hampton Court and found a little cafe, sat outside in the sunshine like you would do in Paris or somewhere, and I had fresh tomato soup.
	I mean, not tomato soup that comes from any commercial producer, but soup that had obviously been made in that place on that day.
	It was sublime, and I coupled that with a cheese salad sandwich, which is a very simple thing to do, but done properly, it is out of this world.
	And I just sat outside that place for about an hour and a half.
	And I thought, well, maybe life is not so bad anyway.
	That's the weather report from London and how things are doing.
	I'm looking forward just a few more weeks to the spring up here.
	I know that down in the southern hemisphere, you're looking at other things.
	Thank you to my correspondents in South Africa, places like Durban, by the way, for listening to this.
	Nice to know that you're there at the other side of the earth and indeed my friends in Australia.
	You know, nice to know that we have interaction from the southern hemisphere.
	If you want to get in touch with me, theunexplained.tv is the website created by Adam, who's worked with me for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of shows.
	You can follow the link on the website and send me an email from there.
	If you want to put a guest suggestion in, if you specifically require a response or reply, please put in the subject reply required, and then I know that you need that.
	Guest on this edition, then, as we take care of business, is Maria Wheatley, who's a researcher of ancient civilizations and the structures that they made, like incredible Stonehenge and Avery, and also a douser, as was her father.
	Maria Wheatley was on the show, I think, about two or three years ago, so this is an update from Maria about all the stuff that she does on this edition of The Unexplained.
	Number 700.
	I've done more than enough talking right now.
	You've probably skipped this intro because it's been one of the longest.
	But listen, 700 shows.
	I just want to say thank you very much for supporting me all the way through.
	I'm not always going to be perfect.
	I certainly have times when I find things difficult.
	This is one of those times, but I get through.
	And that's what we have to do because there's no other choice, is there, really?
	Thank you very much for all that you've done and been.
	Let's get to Maria Weekly now in the United Kingdom.
	Maria, thank you very much for coming back on my show.
	Oh, thanks for having me, Howard.
	Now, Maria, I think the whole area of ancient civilization research, which is what you center, and you do other things as well, as I said in the introduction here.
	But this is especially apposite and especially important at the moment because it seems that a lot of thinkers are beginning to reconsider the idea that the stuff we were told at school about where we came from and who we were here in the British Isles and elsewhere may be incomplete.
	That's correct.
	I mean, that's where I come in, really, because I look at the evidence of skulls, of femur bones, of the Neolithic, that's people that lived here five and a half thousand years ago, and the Bronze Age people too that came over from Europe, the Beaker culture.
	And I really look at the physical evidence.
	And when we look at that, we realize that skull shapes were different, body measurements were different.
	And these ancient people that built the wonderful sites such as Avebury and Stonehenge deserve their voice to be heard, especially what they actually look like and their achievements in the megalithic building program.
	And how do you get to examine those artifacts?
	I presume that many of them are in institutions and it's hard to get access to them.
	It is hard to get access to them because they're human remains and you need a very good reason and a paper that you're writing to ask and request that you handle human remains, especially the skulls.
	So that's what I did.
	I studied at Oxford on their ongoing education program, a degree programme.
	It's called a Cat's Point programme.
	And I was fortunate enough to write a paper and be permitted to visit, photograph and handle ancient human remains.
	And it was a pleasure to do so because as soon as I saw the skull shapes, I realised they were elongated, which I wrote about a few years ago now.
	We're starting to come to the view that maybe ancient people were much more savvy, knew a great deal more than we've ever given them credit for, and maybe could do things that we wouldn't have assumed that a non-technological society could do.
	That's exciting, isn't it?
	It is, because when we look at places like Stonehenge and like the Great Pyramids, obviously, the amount of mathematical, astronomical, geomantic wisdom that went into their location and the building alone is phenomenal.
	They were expert mathematicians and astronomers.
	One of the reasons we're talking now is that your name came up in a conversation with Richard C. Hoagland to do with an experiment that I understand was done about three years or so ago.
	Now, we have to say that the COVID period, which is now thankfully, you know, retreating into the distance, was a time when a lot of things stopped.
	A lot of people like me were working from home and a lot of things may have happened, but maybe didn't get reported on.
	And I think at the beginning of this period, you did an experiment, a group of you, involving going to Stonehenge, you know, the most sacred and ancient of sites in the United Kingdom, being there and transmitting a signal on a specific frequency and then seeing if you got something back having put that out there.
	Is that right?
	Yes, that's correct.
	I was given a radio receiver and transmitter and recorder.
	I was to be at the center, the holiest of holies at Stonehenge by the altar stone.
	It's on quite a few ley line crossing points and very deep aquifer water that has energy as well.
	So I was put on that point, especially so.
	And I switched on at 432 Hertz, which was the chosen transmitting hertz frequency, and I just transmitted.
	In the meantime, Richard Hoagland and many others of his team scattered around the United States and the world were on the receiver mode.
	So I transmitted, they received, and they claimed that they could hear strange words like the word grey came across and other signals which some team members such as David Surida decoded and said it represented places on earth and also the sacred cubit to the ancient Egyptians and he's still decoding some of those signals.
	And maybe it's the impossible question to answer if there was a response.
	And we have to say that anybody who knows anything about radio, and I don't know nearly as much about the technicalities of transmitting, I know about sound recording, but transmitting, will know that 432 hertz is incredibly low.
	I mean, that's an audible frequency, almost, isn't it?
	432, well, not almost, you know, 40 hertz is something that you can feel as rumble.
	So if you amplify that up to 432 hertz, that would be something that you could hear.
	So I'm just curious that, you know, responses or seeming responses could be received back on that frequency.
	Yes, it was also, we did 141 on the receiver as well, if my memory serves me correct.
	It shouldn't have worked anyway.
	That was the thing, Howard.
	Why would they be received at that moment I transmitted?
	It is a wonder in a way, and it's inexplicable as well why that should have happened between us all.
	And that was what led us on to do a few more other experiments in the area of Stonehenge as well, because Richard Hoagland has often said there's torsion fields around ancient sites.
	But just imagine a huge energy field around Stonehenge and just call it a torsion field.
	And so, I went into the torsion field, and that became better because the first signals that I put out at Stonehenge, they said it was crazy, it was loud, it was low, they were coming in really fast and heavy.
	When I was in the torsion field, suggested by Richard, the signals kind of calmed down.
	So, the place where I transmitted also affected the reception and how people received the signals.
	It was clearer and quieter.
	It was almost like it was too strong.
	Did you or the people who receive these frequencies, do you feel that some kind of intelligence sent these responses back?
	I think so.
	I think something was going on because it's inexplicable.
	It shouldn't have happened, but it did.
	Whether that's guidance from extraterrestrials, whether that's guidance from sort of the energy field of the Earth itself, I honestly don't know.
	But what I do know is that the signals came back as soon as I transmitted from within Stonehenge and within its torsion field.
	And do you believe that what were received were, even if we didn't entirely understand them, or indeed even partially understand them, were some kind of message, some kind of response that made sense or could be made to make sense?
	It needs work.
	The data needs to be analyzed correctly.
	And that's where we are at now, because there's a lot of data that needs to be looked at with these signals.
	So I think it's intriguing and we're kind of stepping into new territory because nobody's done this before.
	So it's new.
	And that's what makes it quite exciting.
	And those people who receive these things are convinced, are they, that what they got was more than just random interference?
	Yes, because it was the time.
	As soon as the radios were on at Richard's, you know, like 24-7 on one day.
	But as soon as I put out that signal, he got something back.
	When I stop, it stopped.
	Okay, well, Richard C. Hoagland is somebody that I've known and spoken with many times.
	Whenever I put him on the show, he is controversial.
	There are people who won't listen to anything that he's got to say, and there are people, you know, who believe that he's been onto something for 30, 40 years and more.
	So that's interesting, you know, that you're on that path, and maybe we'll get some more information about this.
	About your core research, then.
	Stonehenge is something that a lot of people have come from many parts of the world to see.
	They do every year.
	I drove past it at Christmas when I went to meet my sister in Devon for a couple of days at Christmas, and it looked incredible in the crisp morning light there.
	It always is so imposing.
	But what a lot of people abroad don't realize, I don't think, is that not very far from Stonehenge is another circle.
	And that circle is incredibly imposing, hasn't had as much research done about it, is listed by English Heritage, of course, who look after these sites.
	That's Avebury.
	Talk to me about Avebury.
	Avebury contains the largest stone circle in the world.
	It's a monument that covers over three miles of the ceremonial landscape.
	It has an outer circle of approximately 100 stones with a diameter of 1,080 feet.
	It's huge.
	Inside of which there's two other stone circles that contained around 30 stones each called the southern inner circle and the northern inner circle.
	So and it also had at a later date avenues of 200 stones leading to other aspects of the ceremonial site and one led to a stone circle and one ended in a large stone.
	And now we think that there was four megalithic avenues because there's four entrances.
	Within that landscape as well, you have the largest man-made mound in Europe called Silbury Hill.
	Today you see it as green and grass-covered, but four and a half thousand years ago, using orthodox dating, it was finished off with white chalk.
	It gleamed white.
	Just like the pyramids were finished off with limestone, all the monuments that are mounds in chalk bedrock country, which is Yorkshire, as well as Wessex, they were finished off in brilliant white chalk.
	So do you believe that being more than a ceremonial site, which this was, this may have had some working purpose as well?
	Yes, when you start to look at the what's called the Eightfold Year, which contains the solstices, the equinoxes, and four other festivals in between those, which were apparent in the ancient world, because sites are aligned to these points that are important in the solar year.
	And we all know about the summer and winter equinoxes.
	When you look at the placement of the obelisk stone, which is the largest stone at the center of the southern inner circle, it was Dr. Terence Meaden that first discovered that there was shadow lines on those dates and those dates alone that hit particular stones.
	I investigated his system and realized it also is the other way around.
	The stones of the outer stone circle and the inner stone circles have their shadows pointing to the obelisk stone.
	So basically you get these huge long lines of darkness in the landscape With a good sunset.
	So it was a sundial.
	That was one of the oldest sundials in this area.
	And it could be used to time particular events.
	Like May Day to the ancients was Beltane, the 1st of August, Imbulk, the first day of harvest.
	And Sawhin on October the 31st, which was Christianized to Halloween, was a very sacred day when the veil between this world and the next grows thin.
	And the ancestors could be spoken to in divination.
	And that's why people dress up as skeletons today.
	It's an ancient pagan festival.
	And at these dates and these dates alone, the sundial comes alive.
	How did they build it?
	A lot of people have asked questions about how did they get the stones to Stonehenge.
	And we have a much better understanding of that.
	But if we talk about Avebury, the scale that it's on, and you have these concentric circles, and we're talking about this being, well, the dates that I've got, and maybe it goes back a lot further than that, but as far back as 2850 BC, that is a long time in our terms, not in terms of the history of the earth.
	How could they have made this happen?
	That's the big question, because Avebury contains in the northern inner circle central megalithic feature, the cove stones.
	And one of those stones, it was originally a set in of three, is the heaviest megalith in the British Isles, weighing over 100 tons.
	How on earth did they put that in the ground?
	When it was excavated by archaeologist Josh Pollard about 10, 15 years ago now, he dated it to 3000 BC, that particular stone setting, and the stone circles to around about 2,500 BC.
	And it goes down in the ground as much as it's above the ground.
	So, I mean, you're talking probably, you know, 150, 200 tons.
	They aren't in the earth.
	A lot of people think sites like Stonehenge, the stones are in the earth.
	They're in solid chalk sockets in the ground.
	And they have to cut that socket out to match the stone as well.
	So they made the bottom of the stones quite flat and put it in.
	But the intriguing thing that I discovered about the cove stones is that it aligns to the moon's metonic cycle.
	And that's where every 18.61 years, precisely so, the full moon in its most northerly climb at its most highest aligns to the cove stone settings.
	And I saw that in 2006 and photographed it for one of my books.
	That alignment is coming back pretty soon in 2025.
	And it is an amazing sight to see.
	It's where the full moon will sit on the henge bank and perfectly align its light to the coast ones.
	And you say this is coming back in 2025.
	We know that this is a time of turmoil and a time of change.
	I wonder if there is some significance in that return.
	And those people back then, we know so little about them, would have known it.
	And we don't really.
	They definitely were focusing on the moon far, far more than on the summer solstice.
	For example, the heel stone at Stonehenge is famous because Richard Atkinson, Professor Richard Atkinson and many others said it aligns to the summer solstice sunrise.
	And it does, but it's actually a degree out.
	If you go back even further to Stonehenge Phase 1, which was a stone circle of 56 blue stones, that was phase 1, then the full moon in the middle of that metonic cycle every nine years would rise perfectly above the heelstone, accurate to within a degree, much more accurate than the sun.
	But more than that, if it corresponded at the winter solstice to an eclipse, it would rise blood-red above the heelstone.
	So this metonic cycle, the moon's metonic cycle, was especially important to our ancient ancestors.
	When it comes to the Earth energies and some lays and some grid lines, for example, that encompass the Earth, the Moon and the Sun, when they rise above the horizon in their sunrise or their moonset or their sunset, if you have a fault line in the chalk, for example, it can do what's called the sheer force effect.
	And that's where if you imagine like a sea wave coming in and going out, but that's on the land, it can then bathe the megalith set close to that fault line in a piezoelectrical effect.
	And that has been known by geologists for many, many years now.
	So it's almost like the megaliths can come alive at these times.
	You talk about a pHO or whatever it is, electric effect.
	All I know about that is that when I was a kid, I had toys that did that.
	And sometimes they were the sort of friction-type toys that generated sparks.
	That's electricity.
	Is that what you mean?
	Yes, I mean, that's a geological fact.
	And that's why all stone circles in the British Isles and across some parts of Europe alike are never more than a mile and a half, two miles away from a fault line.
	That is a fact.
	Even when you look at the Temple of Delphi in Greece, that's quite close to a fault line as well.
	So I think they were getting these strange effects through placing the monuments close to these fault lines.
	And because we're in chalk bedrock at an Avebury and Stonehenge and some sites in the north of England in East Riding in Yorkshire, you have a lot of fissure lines in the chalk cracks, basically.
	And these have that same effect.
	Now, we're speaking in 2023.
	We've spoken before, a couple of years ago.
	What do you know or surmise today about the people who did all of that?
	Because they clearly had some kind of knowledge of the planets.
	They had some kind of knowledge of mathematics.
	They certainly understood building, geometry that is involved in building.
	They knew an awful lot, but we don't know much about them.
	Yes, that is very clear.
	When we look to other countries, for example, like ancient Egypt, we know what Nefertiti looked like and Akhenaten, for example, and King Tut, and the list could go on.
	When it comes to the British Isles, it's almost like they're non-existent.
	But I have looked at all of the major sites across the British Isles and matched that to the people that were living nearby and who were put in the barrows, which is a burial type of monument, and then looked at them.
	I mean, for example, with some of the skull shapes, they were practicing in the Beaker culture of 2500 BC, very round skulls.
	They were accentuating that with cranial deformation by putting boards and bandages on their heads, and they had very, very round-shaped skulls.
	So they were changing the way that they looked to especially the hierarchy, not necessarily everybody, but those that ruled.
	And when we hear archaeologists, they always say, like a mantra, that they didn't live that long.
	Well, I've looked at about 300 burial reports and a large majority of those lived to their approximate 70s, 80s, just like us today.
	But those practices of deforming, we've seen them in other cultures, of deforming skulls sound by our standards here today utterly horrendous and it makes you wonder why would they want to do it, especially to do it for the upper echelons of society.
	And one of the possible explanations that you can come up with, I would guess, is that they were deforming the way that they looked in order to look like a template that they had seen somewhere else.
	In other words, perhaps some kind of visitor from somewhere that they were trying to be like, to set themselves apart from the rest of the people.
	Yes, that could well be the case.
	What we do do know is that they, even in the elongated skull type, the long skull, they too were practicing cranial deformation.
	So it was what the elites were doing at that time.
	And they could have seen a visitor from the past.
	One of the most strangest burials that I came across in an archaeological report at the National Monuments Record Office in Swindon, near where I live, it was quite strange because these were Victorian excavators and they were quite good.
	It was like the birth of archaeology at that time.
	And they were writing reports.
	They were in the Stonehenge environs, probably about a mile and a half away from Stonehenge, investigating a Neolithic longbarrow dated to around 3800 BC.
	At that point, most of the longbarrows contained communal burials, sometimes up to 36, 40 people.
	So imagine lots of skulls and femur bones, not necessarily always the whole skeleton.
	And that's how they found them.
	But in this particular longbarrow, what they discovered stopped them in their tracks because they had five elongated skulled people almost like encircling someone in the middle or some being in the middle.
	So they were like linked arm to arm, cuddling and huddled was how they were described.
	And inside this array of human beings was a very strange, either deformed human or even could be extraterrestrial.
	And they described it as being very small.
	The eyes were on top of the head, just like how Lloyd Pye describes the starchild.
	And also this being, or this human, had a tail as well.
	And that shocked the Victorian excavators.
	And so what's occurring there?
	We simply don't know.
	You can sometimes only investigate the past through archaeological reports from the earliest excavators.
	So these are riddles within riddles, aren't they?
	How do we go about decoding them?
	You know, we've gone back as far as I said.
	And if you look at English Heritage website about Avebury, they talk about a period 2200 BC back to 2850 BC.
	But I think you're saying here that there was much more history than that that maybe goes back a lot further.
	How can we begin to decode who they were and what they knew?
	It's very difficult now because Stonehenge and Aveburyhenge are a UNESCO World Heritage Site and you have to have a very good reason to re-excavate.
	Even Professor Mike Parker Pearson of the Riverside Project, which was a huge undertaking of the Stonehenge environment to find out, you know, what people were eating, where they lived, he found it difficult to re-excavate Stonehenge and was only permitted to re-excavate one of the Aubrey holes that had been previously excavated by Professor Richard Atkinson.
	So it is very difficult to decode the past.
	It really is.
	And it's very difficult to track down where the artefacts were that came out of certain round barrows, Avebury Henge, for example.
	So it's not easy.
	It's like you said, it's a puzzle within a puzzle within a puzzle.
	So how are we going to make progress then?
	If it's difficult to get permission to go and look again at sites like Stonehenge and Avebury, what do we do?
	We have to go by what the early excavators said they saw and try to piece it up bit by bit so that you understand the whole environment.
	For example, what's little known about Stonehenge, and we all know what that looks like, is so, so in our psyche, Stonehenge as Brits, so to speak.
	But standing in front of it, only about sort of 500 meters to the north, was a huge structure called the Cursus Monument.
	It was called the Cursus Monument by William Stukely in 1724.
	And he described a huge monument, one and a half miles long, standing in front of Stonehenge with up to six foot or ten foot chalk walls that you couldn't actually access that easily.
	And he drew It, he described it, but unfortunately, it was plowed out in the 19th century.
	So we see vestiges of the past, but to know the past, we have to say, okay, what did it look like in the 1500s?
	What did it look like in the 1600s to build up a much bigger picture?
	And Cursor's monuments go to the Neolithic time, five and a half thousand years ago.
	And the largest in the British Isles was nearly seven miles long in Dorset.
	So what was going on in these vast chalk, long rectangular-shaped monuments?
	Archaeologists just always say they're ritual for death, death rites.
	But I think there's probably more going on than just death rites, because to build these structures of like chalk brick would take a lot of man hours and a lot of chalk excavation.
	Now, even though you cannot dig places up easily these days, the one thing that you can do, and I know that you do do, and that's partly because of your work with dowsing, your father was a dowser, you're a dowser, you can monitor and make use of in some cases the so-called earth energies.
	Yes, I mean it's a fascinating part of the ancient world because the builders of these megalithic sites and chalk monuments such as the cursors that I've mentioned placed them above aquifers.
	That was one of the first design cannons that they were looking for because even if you go to the pyramids in Egypt, Mexico, all above aquifers.
	And an aquifer beneath the ground generates energy.
	It really does.
	Underground, especially deep water, it produces and interacts with the gravitational fields that's been discovered and it can change that.
	So it kind of makes an area very special.
	Then the ancients would look for other types of earth energies, earth currents, for example, earth voltages.
	Some of the stones, places like Rollwright and Stonehenge were placed above where you get a pulse almost coming out of the earth.
	And this was first discovered by telephone engineers at the turn of the last century that called them parasitic currents.
	And they had to do a relay switch in a phone to stop them.
	But the ancients were looking for them.
	And were they charging up the megaliths in their opinion?
	I think so.
	And in terms of dowsing, how does your use, I mean, my view of a dowser, and I've talked to dowsers on this show before, is that they use a couple of sticks that cross.
	And if they cross in the right place, then you might have the buried treasure or the water or whatever it is beneath.
	How does your use of dowsing tie into the energies that may or may not be present in these places?
	I don't actually douse like that because master dousers such as Guy Underwood, who I inherited all of his published and unpublished surveys, would look for the patterns that earth energies produce on the ground.
	So for example, large deep underground water is going to produce concentric circles.
	That's the pattern that that makes.
	And that's what makes the dowsing twigs or rods cross.
	But there's other patterns as well that earth energies produce.
	And when an earth energy speeds up, it makes another type of pattern.
	So you can start to decode a landscape through the patterns that you're picking up with the dowsing rods.
	Do you believe that, and your area, Wiltshire, is sort of crop circle central, but do you think that earth energies, as some people suggest, are the motive force behind crop circles?
	My late father certainly thought so.
	He looked into crop circles from the very early 80s, right the way through to, you know, when he passed in the year 2006.
	So he noticed that there was the same pattern occurring, that there was very deep water, just like you get at Stonehenge, and that large formations were placed above these.
	Eastfield in Wiltshire is very famous because it's had circle after circle after circle placed there over decades.
	And that's what's beneath it.
	It's a huge reservoir.
	So it's almost like the circles, whether it's a stone circle or a crop circle, were attracted to particular places.
	And my late father also went on to say that the circles were also linked, stone and crop, through particular grid lines or ley lines as well.
	So we're looking at not just one type of earth energy, but layers like an onion that you have to kind of unravel to discover what's going on.
	Do you think these ancient civilizations that you've been trying to get a handle on understood these earth energies better than we do and perhaps were harnessing them in some way?
	Yes, I do, because when we look to the elongated skull people, they were the ones that moved the heaviest stones.
	Because at a place like Avebury or Stonehenge, you have various different phases.
	Phase one, phase two, phase three.
	Phase one of Avebury was putting up the cove stones and constructing the obelisk stone, the largest stone settings within those circles.
	They're Neolithic.
	These stone circles are Bronze Age.
	There are two different cultures erecting stones at two different times.
	Now, when we look to the size of these elongated skulled people, they were very short.
	The men were only about five feet four tops and the women four feet eight.
	But what was noticed by anthropologists is that their brain capacities were bigger than ours.
	So even though they had long, long skulls, maybe they felt the earth energies.
	Maybe they really did know how to harness these through what I've described with a sheer force.
	And that happens every morning and every evening when a body like the sun or moon goes over the horizon line.
	And I also feel that they were excellent water diviners because the earliest wells for water were based in the Neolithic times.
	So they were sensitive and very aware of lays Because one of the most profound ley lines in the Avebury environs links Avebury to Stonehenge and other sites to the north and to the south.
	And it was the Reverend Edward Duke in the 19th century that looked at this map and saw this leigh linking Stonehenge with Avebury.
	But the fascinating thing is other sites such as Castley Camp, which is a ceremonial druid centre, another stone circle that was north of Avebury, no longer exists, called the Winterbourne-Bassett Stone Circle, had circles drawn around them.
	And these circles represented the orbits of the planets.
	So now we've got a ley line linking into a planetarium above.
	Now I looked at that map and said to an astronomer, okay, we've got Marden, which is a massive hench.
	Little exists of that today, which was placed in between Avebury and Stonehenge.
	And that represented Mars.
	Marden, Den is an old English word for farmstead, settlement, the settlement of Mars.
	Avebury represented the sun and the moon, Winterbourne Bassett, Stone Circle, Venus, for example, and Stonehenge was Saturn and other planets as well.
	When we looked at placing Silbury as Earth, which it was on the old antiquarian map, and you looked to why are these sites placed at these points that seem random, they aren't astronomically.
	The ancients were using the mean distance of the Earth to the Moon, to Mercury, for example, and placing that on the ground in miles instead of obviously hundreds of kilometers, miles rather in the heavens above.
	So it's almost like a mini-planetarium.
	And that is absolutely incredible.
	And only went up to Saturn using that mathematical system of Silbury to Uranus, but changing that to miles on the ground.
	We found Uranus, which was a sacred site way, way in the distance in Gloucestershire, for example.
	So when we think about ley lines, we just think about them linking sight after sight.
	No, they can represent planetary forces as well.
	How would they have understood what the planets were and how far away they were?
	That's it.
	How did they know that?
	It's the incredible thing.
	When we start to look at planetary alignments on the ground, how did they know that?
	We know in ancient Egyptian times, for example, the pyramids, according to Chris O'Kane, that did the calculations for Graham Hancock and Robert Braval, that they aligned to the stars of Orion's belt, for example.
	So the linking ancient sites to the heavens above was very important in the ancient world.
	And that kind of assumes, doesn't it?
	It's a big assumption to make.
	That either they had spent a very long time figuring this out, and that meant a huge amount of intellect together, or somebody or something had shown them.
	When it comes to the moon's metonic cycle at Stonehenge for the heelstone alignment to the full moon, halfway between its cycle, they were definitely observing because you have wooden posts, what are called by archaeologists the A posts, and that was plotting that lunar cycle.
	So they were, you know, making sure that they were good observant rather of what was going on with the moon and placing that in poles in the ground so that they knew that when it was in its mid-cycle, it would rise above the heelstone.
	So they were marking out all of these alignments in the ground.
	And one of the most accurate stone circles of the moon's metonic cycle, and people could go and see this in 2025, for instance, is Calanish on the Isle of Lewis in Scotland.
	It's absolutely incredible.
	It's a stone circle that kind of looks and resembles a Celtic cross in the land.
	So it's got a short avenue and it's got a round circle and kind of these branches coming off forming a cross.
	It's spectacular.
	And the late Margaret Curtis looked into the moon's metonic cycle there and what she calculated is absolutely incredible because there's a mountain range nearby called the Sleeping Beauty which mysteriously resembles a woman's body lying on her back with breasts and stomach and legs.
	And in the most southerly moonrise, and that's when the moon is at its lowest, I described Avebury, it's at the most northern at its highest.
	So the moon is low and because of the atmospherics there it's always a beautiful honeycolour.
	And during the southernmost moonrise, the moon goes over the body of the sleeping goddess, going in and out of view, in and out of view.
	Then it almost looks like it turns to align to the center of the circle, but there is a hill just above the actual stone circle, a hillock as it's called in Scotland.
	If a woman or a man was stood there with their arms outstretched, then they appear to be stood inside of the moon.
	They can literally their arms go either side of the moon.
	And the wonder doesn't stop there.
	If you're in a particular point of Calanish, the atmospherics are now going to make one of the most stunning illusions ever seen in the ancient world.
	And that's where the shadow of the man or the woman in the moon can reach out to the end of the avenue.
	Then bang, everything goes dark again because the moon has set.
	I mean, that's Neolithic lunar drama.
	It would have looked phenomenal.
	And I saw part of that in its last cycle in 2006.
	And I had the great pleasure of meeting Margaret Curtis there.
	Lots of talk about Mars at the moment.
	In fact, as I record this, there is further discussion about Mars, that what appears to be a riverbed has been found somewhere, or certainly a place where there was flowing water once.
	There are a lot of secrets, I think, in my gut, I feel, that we are about to have revealed to us about Mars.
	And who knows?
	You know, we may have come from Mars, and there are people in science now suggesting that, which they wouldn't have done 40 years ago, but some of them seem to be suggesting something along those lines now.
	It's still at the fringes.
	What was the relationship, do you think, of the ancients here in the British Isles?
	You talked about the moon, but their relationship to Mars, did they feel an affinity with an understanding of Mars?
	I think so, because there are a lot of sites like Marden Henge, like I mentioned.
	That is definitely a site to Mars.
	But one thing I would like to say, Howard, is, and I've been saying this for 30 years of my life, as an esoteric water diviner, any rock planet can produce water internally.
	It's called primary water or yin water.
	And so that's very, very, very deep within any rock body is how an esoteric water diviner has always, always seen it.
	I was brought up with that concept, for example.
	So it's little wonder that these planets will eventually have water because when it seeps up to the surface, you have water.
	Whereas, you know, cosmologists tell us that water arrived on Earth through a bombardment of comets.
	I would argue that it also is generated internally.
	Mars was especially popular in ancient Egypt, where Chris O'Kane, he did a lot of work on this, realized that Mars represented Horus.
	Isis, for example, was Sirius, Osiris, Orion.
	And how they designed the temples in ancient Egypt, for example, was they're called pylons.
	They're big two structures to one side with a gap in the middle.
	And that's a viewing gap where Mars would align to at particular times of its cycle.
	The last alignment of Mars at the Temple of Comombo, for example, was at the winter solstice just last year.
	So Mars is figured prominently in ancient design canons.
	But the thing that we're sort of dancing all around here is, isn't it, that they had such astonishing knowledge.
	You know, the Great Pyramid, I think when I was a kid, we used to watch documentaries on TV and we're looking at all of these artifacts and they're discovering even more and saying that there is more to the Great Pyramid in particular than we knew and they're still exploring.
	But the idea was that, you know, these were things that were left there to venerate the people who'd ruled the kingdom and they were there to venerate the gods that they worshipped.
	We didn't really think that they might have some other cosmic significance or indeed that the pyramid may have been something that was working, might have been generating electricity, might have been there for a reason that was a practical reason.
	I think we're starting to get a dawning, aren't we, of light, that there may be much, much more to these ancient civilizations, what they did and what they knew, and also shock of shocks, that they may have been in some way connected.
	They may have known some of the same things or all of the same things, but how could they, if they were separated by distance and they didn't have jet planes like we do today?
	How could that be?
	When we look to artefacts in the Stonehenge environs, especially so, because that's unique in Great Britain.
	It is the largest Bronze Age burial site.
	Up to a thousand round barrels were placed around encircling Stonehenge, actually.
	And it has been pointed out since the 1800s that the 800 then that were still visible around Stonehenge represented the 800 stars that you could see with the naked eye.
	So we have this again, this real deep connection.
	Why they were doing that?
	Were they actually generating energy?
	I think that they were.
	And I think that they knew that earth currents, earth voltages that I've just previously discussed could be harnessed for the generation of energy.
	Also, ancient sites like Stonehenge aren't just one thing.
	For example, in the 12th century, Geoffrey of Monmouth, who wrote the History of the Kings of Britain, said and recorded that Stonehenge was a healing centre that was occupied at the winter solstice by the healing god Apollo, who left Delphi in Greece.
	And that's recorded also in Greece that he would go to a Britain, Hyperborean place, as it was called then.
	And it was healing.
	And the stones, especially the bluestones, were regarded at healing so much so that by the time it came to the 19th centuries, people were permitted to buy hammers from Amsbury and start chipping off pieces of sarsen and bluestone.
	That's why the lintels don't look dead straight like Indigo Jones drew them in 1624, for example.
	So Stonehenge then and now, according to Professor Tim Deville and the late Geoffrey Wainwright, was the healing capital of the world.
	Now, when we look to what's in those barrows that surround it, for instance, we see evidence of beads that were made in Egypt.
	The amber came from Estonia.
	The jet came from East Riding in Yorkshire.
	The artefacts say that there was a cosmopolitan capital, the spiritual capital of Britain, attracting the ancient Egyptians.
	So how did they travel?
	Horseback, presumably.
	By boat.
	I mean, there was a port, for example, that got recently discovered near Christchurch on the Dorset shorelines.
	Well, they think that was the main port for the Stonehenge area, which was importing all of the goods from Europe.
	We were exporting in the Bronze Age, in the mid-Bronze Age, tonnage of grain to Greece.
	We had two harvests a year, according to the chronicler, the Roman chronicler Diodorus.
	So we were major exporters to Europe.
	It's astonishing to even contemplate, isn't it, that there you are in the south of England, looking out to the West Country, as we call it, and yet you're aware of Egypt somehow.
	How can you be aware of somewhere so very far away?
	I mean, it must have seemed to them in terms of distance, or maybe it didn't.
	It must have seemed as far as the furthest distant planets seem to us.
	Yes, but they were interacting with each other.
	I mean, even Pythagoras recorded the names of a druid from Gaul, ancient France.
	And the interesting thing about Stonehenge as well, if you move, as I did for an article and a part of my research, if you move the prime meridian line away from Greenwich, London, and you place that on a very powerful north-south ley line that goes through Stonehenge,
	and then you divide the globe by 30 degrees, as the early Victorian astrologers did, you project the zodiac, the Greek zodiac, around the Earth.
	And if you move that prime meridian line away from Greenwich, you get naught degrees Taurus, where the Taurian mountains are, and the ring of fire, where Leo is.
	Now, what the Victorian astrologers said was particular planets that are at these points that represent the zodiacal signs can cause earthquakes.
	And I looked after the sad devastation caused by the recent Turkish earthquake that we're familiar with, loss of life.
	It's incredible and very, very sad.
	The planet Uranus that represents earthquake was directly associated to 14, 15 degrees Taurus where that place location was.
	Did the ancients were, well, if the ancients were aware of this, they could predict a lot of things in the future by using the world as a zodiac, not just in the heavens above on the ecliptic belt, but at ancient sites like Stonehenge.
	So some of this speaks to the fact that they had great knowledge and they were sharing that knowledge and they were trading with each other.
	But the hardest question, and we come back to it of all, is did they learn this because they diligently applied themselves to all that they saw around them on the ground and in the heavens and among their fellow citizens?
	Or were they given a helping hand by something that came here or indeed were their own antecedents elsewhere?
	And those are fascinating questions.
	I don't even know how we begin to answer those.
	It is very difficult.
	Was it the ancient civilizations like Atlantis, Lemuria?
	We were on the continental mainland.
	We only separated from France in 6000 BC.
	You've got Doggaland beneath that's believed to contain monuments, some say.
	So the history of mankind goes back.
	I mean, even if we take all of the stones away from Stonehenge and Avebury, what preceded that were wooden temple buildings and wooden setims.
	So even the megalithic heritage has a much, much longer heritage going back to the Mesolithic time, 8,000 years ago.
	And the earliest features at both Avebury and Stonehenge are very large.
	They're called totem poles, but you know, they're really big, standing almost like a huge tree that's been carved probably, and it's believed now they could have been painted with rich colours of ochre because you've got red ochre and yellow ochre in the Stonehenge and Avebury environs.
	So preceding the stones, you had another culture that was building with timber.
	You're working on a new book.
	What's that about?
	My new book, which is going to be out in a couple of months, is called The Secret History of Stonehenge.
	It looks at Stonehenge and many other sites.
	It looks to the practices of the ancient world.
	Could certain places be used as an oracle center?
	Could places be used as a healing centre?
	The very old, strong constructs in ancient Egypt, like the Osiron at the back of the Abydos temple.
	And I look at earth energies and how I believe the ancients could produce a lot of grain, as I previously mentioned, that was not outweighed until the 1950s with the advent of chemical fertilizers.
	I think they were using particular ancient sites to charge up seed and they knew where to plant.
	And it was an author called John Burke who wrote a book called Seed of Knowledge, Stone of Plenty.
	I looked at his work and thought he's left out earth energies.
	That's the key.
	So I also look at ancient agriculture and I've done a lot of experiments to show that if you know where to plant and if you know how to charge up seed, you could theoretically get a much stronger harvest.
	And certainly my own trials with seed production has proved this.
	So it really covers a lot of secrets of the ancient world, like where they lived, how did they live, what were they doing at the ancient sites.
	So it's very exciting and I'm really looking forward to when it's going to be released.
	And like I say, in a couple of months' time, the secret history of Stonehenge will be out.
	And you talked about how they lived.
	What sort of hierarchy, as far as you understand, did they have?
	At Derwenton Walls, with the huge amount of excavations that have given a lot of data, suggest it's a bit like today.
	You get some people living in big houses, you get some living in small houses.
	But again, if you look to the placement of the house, then that's above a particular type of earth energy that emits a signal of Hertzian frequency to about 7 to 10, which is very relaxing and calming.
	It equates to the alpha brain waves.
	So they were looking for these signals coming out of the ground and placing their domestic sites above one type of energy.
	So they were living in harmony with Gaia, living in Harmony with the earth.
	Do you think, as you're putting out this new book about Stonehenge and what it might mean, what might be there, and what might have been there in the past, do you think that the cause of some of our problems at the moment, where life seems to be incredibly dysfunctional in many ways, is maybe down to the fact that we're not living in harmony with it like we used to?
	Absolutely.
	I think there's a disconnect between some people and the planet.
	And I think the ancients had that connection.
	They decoded everything, not just the astronomy, but all of the different types of earth energy.
	And there's 42 to 49 different types of earth energy that have been catalogued since 1899.
	And if we adopt these practices, I mean, imagine putting, for example, a new build hospital above healing earth energies.
	Then maybe that would benefit everyone that, you know, is being treated there.
	I think we can have practical ways of working with earth energies rather than just ceremonial or ritual.
	And that's what I see that the ancients were doing.
	Of course, it's a big mountain to climb.
	If you were to suggest to one of the health authorities that they built their multi-million pound new money-spinning hospital in a place that might improve or focus the energies, at the moment they'd probably laugh at you.
	Yes, but if we go back to the 1960s and the 1970s, Dr. Cathy Batchelor, who was looking at what caused geopathic stress, basically that's toxic earth energy, geopathic stress.
	And she was looking to the homes of people and Dr. Manfred Curry in the 1950s had discovered the Curry grid and wherever these grid lines cross could produce geopathic stress.
	And she investigated 11,000 houses and noticed that people that were subject to geopathic stress would become ill living above these earth energy points long term.
	So there has been a lot of study into the nature, the good and the bad nature of earth energy.
	And of course, if we're producing frequencies that interfere with or shroud or somehow hide these energies and stop them reaching us, then we might be giving ourselves problems.
	I'm just kind of talking speculatively here.
	But if you think about places where we put power lines and all sorts of transmitters of various kinds, maybe they will block out what the ancients would have known we need.
	This is a problem.
	When we investigated Rollright about 15 years ago now, and that's without all of the smartphones, okay, they were yet to be invented, so to speak, we noticed that coming out as a signal of some of the Rollright stones, if you stood at the center, were man-made radio signals.
	Because stones are designed to transmit energy.
	They really are, and they are.
	So the more and more electromagnetic e-smog, as it's called, to diviners such as myself, we just say e-smog, then maybe the stones will not be what they were to the ancient ancestors.
	So they were radiating, they were relaying signals.
	Yeah.
	Yes, we picked them up clearly and obviously.
	So yes.
	And when I did some experiments at Aveby Hend with Rodney Hale, we put some, you wouldn't be allowed to do it today, we put very large copper probes into the ground to look at a particular earth current there and a control as well.
	We always use a control to see if there is an anomaly going on.
	Then the amount of man-made signals that were flowing along that earth current, it took Rodney days of work to take out all of the man-made signals to see if there was a natural signal flowing through that particular earth current.
	So it is a problem.
	And like I say, with the smartphones now and all of the different types of transmitters, that there potentially it could be polluting the natural earth energies presence.
	And that could be a challenge for the future.
	Well, I find the whole field fascinating and the whole idea that our way for the future might be helped or might be shown by the ways of the past.
	I think that's a fascinating concept, Maria.
	And thank you very much for speaking with me.
	Please let me know when the new book is out.
	Thank you, Howard.
	Thank you.
	As ever, your thoughts about Maria Weekly, gratefully received.
	Please go to the website theunexplained.tv.
	You can follow the link and send me an email from there.
	More great guests in the pipeline here at The Unexplained.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained Online.
	And until next we meet, please stay safe.
	Please stay calm.
	And above all, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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