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May 16, 2022 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

01:03:58

Edition 634 - Mary Joyce Update

Independent journalist/investigator Mary Joyce - from the acclaimed website "skyshipsovercashiers" on underground bases, the "secrets" revealed in Mars images and MUCH more...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet by webcast and by podcast.
	My name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	How are you doing?
	I hope you're okay.
	I'm looking out over after quite a nice period of weather here in Her Majesty's United Kingdom.
	It's a little bit grey and windy, but they are telling us once again that the weather is going to get better.
	So you know me, I'm not a big one for winter, so I'm going to drink it in.
	I've been trying to do as much, kind of getting out there and cycling.
	And after the terrible two years of incarceration and misery towards the end, and I know that you can probably relate to this because maybe you've been in the same situation too, I've been rather loving the fact of reconnecting with life.
	You know, just of being able to get on public transport, even though most people that I look at on the trains and the underground in London are not bothering with masks or anything like that, even though the travel companies ask you to do it, if you will.
	Most people don't.
	You know, it's been quite an experience, and it's just nice to feel normal again.
	And I have to say that from my point of view, and I've probably said this before, I never, ever, ever want to go through anything like that.
	And, you know, at my stage of life, maybe at yours too, I just couldn't afford to lose two years of my life.
	You know, I kept working at least from home, you know, from my own facility, but don't ever want to do that again, okay, unless there's absolute cataclysm, which, you know, here's hoping there won't be.
	Thank you very much for all the nice emails.
	I have had so many messages over the last week or two.
	So many kind people.
	Thank you very much.
	The television show, I know that you've got a lot of response about that, and you've given me huge support for it, because look, we know that I'm not a TV person, so I'm having to learn an awful lot very quick on how you do it.
	And I'm having to feel my way, and I'm doing it all live, you know, all in front of a camera, which I'd always sworn I would never do.
	So it's been fine, but it's been a learning experience.
	I know that you might have had, I know some of you have, thoughts about the way that the television station presents it all.
	And, you know, you've got to know that, and I know that you do, that I'm a freelancer and I'm only in there once a week normally.
	So none of the actual production elements of that that you're talking to me about are anything to do with me and would have to be raised with them.
	The show and who's on it is pretty much down to me.
	You know, it is a very, very, very, very slim operation.
	And it's basically, you know, me and Mark who books the guests and also does the technical operation on the show.
	And now, of course, we've got people doing vision mixing and stuff like that because there's a bit more complication with television.
	But, you know, that's all there is.
	So, you know, some things I am responsible for and a lot of things I'm not.
	I hope you know where I'm coming from.
	But when we're talking about the podcast here, which I've been doing, well, this is now the 17th year that I'm starting of it, then yes, you know, I'm totally responsible for this and the way that this goes.
	And I can always make changes, you know, if you suggest them.
	And that's easy peasy.
	Thank you very much to Adam, my webmaster, for his continuing hard work.
	Just a couple of shout-outs.
	Not very much in the way of shout-outs this time because we've got to get on.
	Sean in Tranmere, good to hear from you.
	Stu in Seaburn, Lee in Borehamwood, and Ed in Texas.
	Thank you.
	And Richard, got in touch last night as I'm recording this.
	I wanted to share a story that freaked me out.
	Recently, says Richard, I had a dream that I was in a mini-bus being driven down narrow mountain roads when on the radio the newsreader said, we've managed to get water to Mars.
	As I was processing that information, the minibus driver purposely drove off the side of the mountain and we plunged towards a massive and beautiful lake.
	I have no idea what it means, if anything, but now I'm terrified to hear anything about finding or taking water to Mars.
	Boy, I don't expect you to make sense of this, says Richard.
	I just wanted to share.
	Look, the realm of dreams is bizarre, isn't it?
	You know, you're supposed to be there at nighttime working out everything that's happened to you.
	I know that that is part of the process of dreams.
	You're kind of filtering things that happen to you during the day.
	But some of the stuff that I experience in dreams, you know, I actually, you know, experience and am close to and talk with and have conversations that I'm apparently thinking about with people that I don't know and I've never seen.
	And I'm doing it all in three dimensions and full colour.
	Maybe that just says that the brain is a wonderful place.
	Maybe we go to somewhere different when we're dreaming.
	Who knows?
	It's way above my pay grade, but it's well worth talking about and investigating, isn't it, don't you think?
	Guest on this edition, Mary Joyce.
	She's been on briefly the radio show, and she didn't have enough time, so I wanted to give her more here.
	Very interesting woman.
	Mary Joyce has worked for two major metropolitan newspapers, the Orlando Sentinel in Florida, big newspaper, the Oakland Press in Michigan, and then feature editor and what was she?
	Oakland Press was Sunday magazine editor and feature editor for them.
	On the side, her biography says, she's written magazine articles and books.
	Since 2008, 14 years, she's been the main researcher and editor for the Sky Ships Over Cashier's website.
	Great name, but Cashiers is a place.
	We'll talk about that with her.
	It features a wide variety of cutting-edge topics.
	You can say that again, from UFOs to secret underground bases, Bigfoot to Cherokee Little People.
	Mary has gone from investigating mob stories in Detroit, including the death of Jimmy Hoffer, must ask her about that if we get time, to interviewing people with the highest top-secret clearances about clandestine government activities.
	I think most of us believe these days that there are plenty of those.
	So Mary Joyce, the guest on this edition.
	Thank you very much for supporting me and my show.
	This is the independent podcast you're listening to now.
	If you can make a donation to this Show to keep this and the website and me going, then that would be very gratefully received.
	You know, I know that I'm doing a TV show, but let me tell you that it's not the kind of thing that please don't be thinking that I'm sort of getting paid movie star money because that's not how any of it works, and I wouldn't expect it to.
	You know, my life continues exactly the same as it was before.
	And, you know, I do the podcast, and if you can make a donation to it to help it carry on, then that will be gratefully received.
	And it's very, very important.
	And if you have recently, thank you very much from the bottom of my heart.
	And even if it's only the cost of a cup of coffee, which I've been shocked lately to discover is about £3 in the UK minimum.
	I went for a black coffee.
	Sorry, I'm going off on one now.
	I went for a black coffee recently in a place in Hampton Court.
	And it wasn't very good.
	I had to take it back in the end because it was like dishwater.
	And it was a black coffee, no sugar, no milk, no nothing.
	£3 to you.
	And then I got to the riverbank and, you know, try, I don't get out very much these days, but I got to the riverbank, sat down, drank it.
	I thought, I'm not having that.
	And I went back and three pounds.
	Anyway, if you could even donate the cost of a cup of coffee to the unexplained, that would be gratefully received.
	T-shirts, by the way, the ones that I've been wearing on the TV, and you've been asking if you can buy those at the moment, no.
	Literally, I had six made for me, and I've worn two of them.
	But I am looking into all of this, this merchandising stuff, because I know that you want these things.
	And, you know, I can quite understand why.
	Okay, let's get to our guest in the United States here from Skyships Over Cashiers.
	Mary Joyce is back on The Unexplained.
	Mary, thank you very much for coming on.
	Well, good afternoon.
	It's always fun to talk to you.
	I was going through some of your biography.
	I didn't go through all of it, just explaining the journalistic background and other things that you've done.
	And the one thing that I found difficult was to come up with a word that describes you.
	So how would you describe yourself?
	Somebody with a big curiosity who likes to write and explore.
	And I don't know if you want a title.
	The one I identify with the most is I was an editor and a writer for newspapers here in the United States.
	Right.
	And that's a great grounding and training.
	Look, I've known Linda Moulton Howe, as I'm sure you know her, for many years.
	I do know her.
	For many, many years.
	And Linda is, and she won't mind me saying this.
	In fact, she should be very proud of it because she looks amazing.
	She's 80 and she is completely driven.
	And I think people who do what you do, to the extent that you do it, there has to be some kind of inner drive there.
	There must be, mustn't there?
	Absolutely, because you really don't make money.
	If money is your goal, this is not the way to do it.
	It has to be out of a real commitment just to get information out there and to expose things that are being hidden from us.
	And I've met her a number of times.
	I've talked to her on the phone.
	She has a true passion for getting out the secrets that are being held back from us.
	And even those people who sell lots of books, they don't get rich when they do things like that.
	That can't be the motivation.
	It's something deep in the heart of people that they want to get information to the people.
	All right.
	Underlying that statement in you, though, there must be something within you.
	You must have been maybe a kid who liked to quest and find things out, who wasn't quite as credulous as other people might have been.
	Since the beginning, I've always been curious.
	And I was fortunate enough to have parents that would let me explore things.
	Sometimes it got quite silly.
	At one time when I was very young, I wanted to join the circus.
	And my parents had a wonderful way of curing me.
	They took me to the like the summer camp for the circus.
	And then the reality of what it would be like to live in a circus camp hit me hard in the face.
	And that ended that childhood career.
	So yeah, I was allowed to check out a lot of things and I continued to do that.
	And just before we leave this point, do you believe that the answers to all of those questions like what is it like to be in the circus are always going to be a disappointment?
	Oh, no, absolutely not.
	In fact, what I'm doing right now has inspired me to just start working last week on another book.
	And the title is Spy in the Sky, and the subtitle is Secrets and Cover-Ups from Earth to Mars.
	And I have found so many things that people just don't know about using Google Earth.
	So Google Earth is sort of like a two-edged sword.
	On the one hand, it's a cutting-edge instrument for finding out what's going on on the moon and Mars and throughout this planet.
	On the other hand, or on the other edge, there's a lot of censorship.
	There's been time after time when I have found something quite unique.
	And as soon as I post it on our website, which is skyshipsovercachers.com, it gets blurred out or taken down or in some way distorted.
	And that's happened more times than I actually can count.
	So you think, and I've heard this before a million times while I've been doing this show, and that's 20 odd years, you think that inadvertently often material that is of interest is released.
	And then once the authorities have it flagged up to them by somebody like you that I found something interesting here, down it goes?
	That seems to be what happens.
	And like I said, anybody can use Google Earth and Google Earth Pro is the best one to use.
	And I just spend time periodically cruising around Mars or cruising around Antarctica or down in the ocean bottoms.
	And I find these things.
	And, you know, they can't just erase everything.
	So when we find something that the famous they don't want us to get out there, that's when it gets blurred out.
	And do you find things on Mars that we get stories in our newspapers here?
	I'm sure you get them there too, of people who believe that they've seen a woman and child on Mars, they've seen strange creatures on Mars, they've seen shopping trolleys on Mars, they've seen Elvis on Mars.
	Do you see those sorts of things only on Mars?
	Absolutely not.
	Absolutely not.
	Those kind of things are almost always inventions of the imagination.
	The kind of things I find are an actual UFO parked on the planet, another one where it is skidded to a stop, two of them, where UFOs have skidded to a stop.
	And whenever I post these on the website, and when I do it in this book I'm working on, I give the coordinates so people can go and find these places for themselves.
	And lots of them are still available.
	Lots of them you can still find, but you can also see the distortions.
	So I try to get these images printed and saved immediately because then I can always have the original to show people.
	Two weeks ago, there was, as you will know, 10 days ago, whatever, there was a great flap around the world of people saying, look at what we found on Mars.
	It's a crashed saucer.
	And it turned out it was part of the, I think it was part of the parachute deployment kit for the Perseverance mission.
	I think that's what NASA said it was.
	You know, that turned out to have a rational explanation.
	But you would say, would you, that there are many other things there that don't have a rational explanation.
	Absolutely.
	And like you, I dig in there and I try to find support for these kinds of things, especially when I picked them up somewhere else and you see what somebody else has found.
	So often when I dig into those, I find out they're bogus.
	The one I almost got totally fooled by was a picture of a rock on Mars and it had faint hieroglyphs on it.
	It looked so authentic.
	I dug into the files, found the original footage from, I don't know which, anyhow, from NASA, and those hieroglyphs weren't there.
	And somebody in India had very, very skillfully added these images and it looked authentic.
	So I am constantly digging deeper to make sure that what I put out there on the website is correct.
	So with those images that you're convinced that you haven't been fooled by and that there is something there for us to pay attention to, talk to me about some of the ones that have most surprised you and that have most shocked you.
	I think I was really, really surprised when I found two biospheres on Mars.
	And it was five years between the two things that I would find.
	And I should explain that I don't sit at the computer all the time scanning for all this, but I will sit down and maybe spend a half hour at a time just cruising, let's say, Mars.
	And sometimes I get lucky.
	So I think it was, it may have been back in 2011, I found this biosphere in one of the hemispheres.
	And it was a number of years later before I found one in the other hemisphere.
	And I did a lot of research.
	There is a man, his name is Brian Verstig, and he is absolutely respected as a conceptual artist.
	In other words, he designs future living spaces for like Mars or other places.
	And his work has been published in major publications.
	And I looked at his drawings or illustrations and compared them to what I was seeing.
	And even though they were somewhat blurry on Mars, you could still see the similarity in structure.
	And the first one that I found was about 700 feet in length, which is pretty impressive.
	But then a few years later, when I found the other one, it was 10 times that.
	It was about 7,000 feet in length.
	And it's just mind-boggling.
	So I guess that would be right up there at the top.
	That sparks a whole raft of questions, doesn't it?
	Yes, it does.
	For a start off, whose is this stuff?
	Who does this belong to?
	Let me quote somebody else because that would be better than me just spouting off information.
	In December of 2020, the head of space security in Israel, who had had the position for nearly 30 years.
	This is Chaim Eshet, yeah.
	That's right.
	And he went public in the Jerusalem Post, which is a highly respected newspaper.
	And he said, and let me pull out a couple lines here.
	One is, there's an agreement between the U.S. government and the aliens.
	That's one sentence.
	Another one, there's an underground base in the depths of Mars where their representatives are and also are American astronauts.
	Now, that has much more impact than Mary Joyce stating similar things.
	You asked earlier what surprised me the most.
	And up at the top of that list would be a line of 27 entrances into Mars.
	Now, the only reason I even found them was because instead of keeping the north, you know, at the top like you normally would, I put the north in the east position.
	So I was scrolling Mars in a different direction than you would typically do.
	And here was this line of square cut entrances all in a line.
	When you talk of entrances, Mary, do you mean that they're like tunnels or they're paths?
	They're absolutely square cut.
	They would be like warehouse entrances.
	So there's some kind of subterranean.
	Absolutely.
	And that's why I wanted to mention Haim Ashid first, because he gives credibility to information like this.
	Okay.
	And I suppose the first thing you would do when you discover something like that is you'd want to blow the whistle, wouldn't you, to the world's media?
	Did you try?
	At this point, I have what I call a mailing list and I send stuff out.
	Getting into the national media is really quite difficult.
	First of all, they tend to zero in and get preoccupied with one or two stories, and those are often important stories like Ukraine.
	So you don't get stories like this getting mainline coverage.
	And some people think, and I can't endorse or dispute it, that there is a restriction in the major media not to go too far with this kind of information.
	And yet if there was, all right, I'm an independent podcaster, broadcast journalist, though, for many, many years.
	I continue to be so.
	And part of my life is in mainstream media.
	Most of it is here, not in the mainstream media, but we've spoken on radio, haven't we?
	And nobody stopped me.
	Nobody stopped me talking about the things that we talked about.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	We don't get restricted that much from what you and I are doing.
	It's the alternate sources of information, which is again what the two of us are doing, where this information is getting out.
	If you get this kind of information on, let's say, NBC, CBS, in this country, that would be a challenge.
	I guess it would be.
	Yeah, I can quite see that that is not going to be an easy thing because, you know, who are you phoning up and whatever credentials you might have?
	Chances are when you get through to somebody on the phone, they're not going to listen.
	So I get what you're saying.
	Now, these things that you've seen, the entrances and the apparent structures that appear to adhere to design principles that have been laid down here on Earth, are there signs of obvious activity there that you've been able to see or do they look dormant?
	I don't think they're dormant.
	With the Google Earth search, which is all I have available to me, it's in a sense, it's a static view.
	So ongoing activity would not be performing on the screen for me like it would be if a television camera was there.
	So there could, you know, clearly there could be activity there that I wouldn't be able to pick up.
	And how can you be sure, and forgive me for the basic and somewhat obvious question, but how can you be sure that you're not misinterpreting what you see?
	Well, when you get 27 structures in a row spread over, I think it's 16 miles, and they all have the basic structure, which is square cut.
	And the edges are a little bit different.
	So you can see that one is different from the other and the width of these different entrances will vary.
	But otherwise, the basic structure is the same.
	And you can see the frame or the entrance portal and then you can see the darkness within it.
	And all of them are big enough for our major platinum to fly into.
	Not that that's what's happening because I don't think that's happening, but it gives you an idea of the wingspan.
	If this is so, this is the greatest story never told.
	Have you tried to research behind it to see if anybody, for example, in Washington, where they're discussing this actively right now, if anybody there knows about this?
	Well, perhaps if I get lucky that this project I'm working on now, where I'm really putting together all these things that I found into one book, I might be able to get the book into people's hands because then it's all in one place for somebody to look at.
	And as of now, every page is going to be full color of all these things that I have found.
	And I think for people who are very, very busy, even if they just quickly flip through it, it would have more of an impact than referring them to my website.
	As you say, your resources are limited.
	Mine are even more limited than yours.
	The world is full of expanding technology and people who are qualified to use it, astronomers and others.
	How come they haven't seen these things?
	Every once in a while, an astronomer will get lucky and they'll see like a fleet of UFOs flying around the moon.
	I wish that more astronomers would keep an eye on the moon and see if more things like that could be caught.
	That is very difficult for me to prove that it's real because I don't know the astronomers that have caught some of these things.
	But there certainly is the potential of some great things being discovered by astronomers.
	And when you've sat down and thought, which I'm sure you have many times about what all of this means, one of the things it means is that we seem to then, you know, if this is so and these things are on Mars, let's stick with Mars for the minute.
	You know, and people know about this, that we're also spending billions of US dollars and a lot of money in pounds and Euros and every other currency on conventional missions to Mars.
	You know, Elon Musk is talking it up all the time, saying it's going to be risky, but we're going to do it.
	Why do you think that then there would be that dichotomy and maybe duplicity in the thing?
	I don't have an absolute answer on this, but I have often wondered if this whole rocketry thing is a distraction to keep people thinking that that's where we are.
	Personally, I think we have much more sophisticated ways of getting to Mars.
	If we didn't, we wouldn't be finding things like a biosphere on Mars that would not have been set up with conventional rocketry.
	So I think it's a distraction, but it seems to be an awful expensive one.
	When was the last time you saw something then?
	You mean that I found on Mars?
	Yes.
	The most recent thing will get posted this next week.
	And I read about, let's see, all I can remember is the name.
	It's called SWIM.
	It's an acronym for a group of scientists who are searching for water and ice on Mars.
	And so I found out the areas where they think it's more likely that water would be.
	So one of my searches in one of those water type areas, I found something that looks like an absolute cover-up.
	And when I zoom in on it, it looks like somebody has taken a brush and dipped it in red paint and made swatches over this particular area.
	In fact, there's two areas.
	If I remember correctly, the largest one is like 17 miles in length.
	It's right where water is supposed to be right beneath the surface.
	There are also two puzzling tracks that look kind of like train tracks.
	One comes across as gold and goes the full length of the satellite photo strip.
	And the other one is about half that size, maybe about eight miles long.
	And again, they look like tracks.
	They're in the same area where this water is supposed to be in the same area where it looks like somebody has made deliberate efforts to cover up things with their red brush.
	I guess just that'll be posted next week on Skyships overcachers.com.
	Okay, well, I'm going to look out for that.
	And maybe, you know, I've got a TV show where we don't have quite as much time as we do here on the podcast to expand.
	But, you know, if you'd like to come on and talk about that and show us the image, then you would be welcome to do so, Mary.
	I guess there are three ways, and I'm just an ordinary guy looking at these things, but just as curious as you would.
	Well, I'm a guy looking at these things.
	But I'm just as curious as you are.
	I mean, that's one thing in my favor.
	But there are, you know, a number of ways of looking at this.
	Number one is that you're misinterpreting.
	Well, we've discussed that.
	Number two is there is the possibility that you entertain that there is some kind of collaboration or partnership between another force out there, another authority out there, another presence and ourselves, which I suspect may possibly be the case.
	Or the third alternative, it seems to me, is that these are things that might have been put there in our previous existence, which I've always had a sneaking feeling within me, but I don't have a ton of evidence to back it up.
	You know, I have a feeling that maybe our previous existence was on Mars, and some of the stuff that we see that appears to be random rocks might actually be rubble of what we were before.
	So those are three ways of looking at it.
	It seems to me that you go mostly for number two.
	I'm very aware of the remnants that people are finding in the debris on Mars, and some of it is somewhat convincing.
	I don't doubt for a minute that there was a civilization on Mars, I don't know, a bunch of years ago.
	And there are notable scientists who have speculated on this and believe that that's what's happened.
	There is evidence that there was either a nuclear-type explosion that destroyed the atmosphere on the planet and destroyed everything.
	There are those who think that the asteroid belt, when it exploded, affected Mars and destroyed the atmosphere.
	There is absolutely visual evidence that looks like somehow that planet was really blown apart.
	Not completely, it's still floating, but whatever was on the surface got blown away.
	So yes, I believe that we have two things going on.
	We've got remnants of a very ancient civilization on Mars, and we have evidence of contemporary activity going on.
	Both can exist at the same time.
	And again, all I can talk about is what I suspect.
	And I think Mars has a much greater story to tell us than, you know, here is a dead place that doesn't have much of an atmosphere, certainly not one that we could breathe in.
	I think the truth is probably much more colorful than that.
	And we may well be hearing that.
	Now, whether, you know, there are structures that are still in use there, it sounds to me that you don't know whether they're still in use, but they're there.
	Okay, the old structures, I don't think, are viable at all.
	I think they were absolutely destroyed unless there are remnants of an ancient civilization beneath the surface.
	That certainly is a possibility.
	Do you have a feeling, has anybody ever talked with you about this, the idea that one of these days, if all of this is true, that we're going to, as a people, somebody's going to have to level with us about this one day?
	Yes.
	And I think that programs like yours, efforts like mine, and so many other people like Linda Moulton-Howell, those efforts will continue to have a building effect, will continue to get more and more people open to these possibilities.
	So, yeah, it's going to come out.
	I sincerely hope we live to see it come out.
	And just staying with Mars for a moment, is there anything that we should have included in this part of the conversation that I haven't?
	That's a tough question because then my brain's going all over the place.
	Well, no, I'm just kind of thinking, I don't want you to give away all of the secrets of your new book.
	Let it be a surprise to people when it comes out.
	I'm just trying to figure out what might be interesting to hear.
	And the spaceships on the planet that look like they're contemporary and not ancient, the entrances, the biospheres, the fact that I just recently found this site where there is water, it makes so much sense that if we are going to establish outpost on Mars, that we humans would need water.
	So I will continue to explore areas that have been delineated by this group called SWIM to see if there's other things that are hidden in the areas where there's water beneath the ground.
	Have you ever been in contact with any of those people?
	There are a number of them, and I've spoken with at least two of them, who claim that they have been involved in some kind of program that actually takes young people from Earth and puts them into service on spaceships.
	And some of those go to Mars and they do service on Mars.
	Then they're brought back to Earth and de-aged.
	So they're put back at exactly the same age as they were when they went.
	Have you Ever spoken to any of those people, and do you give any credence to any of that?
	I've read that.
	I just, at this point, have chosen not to touch it as a subject on the website.
	It's impossible to prove what they're saying, absolutely impossible.
	And they may be telling the truth completely.
	I mean, we seem to be living in a sci-fi world, but at the same time, it begs to be supported or verified in some other way.
	And at this point, I can't do that.
	Well, I totally understand that.
	I've had the same problem.
	I asked one who sounded very credible on my radio show, great, you know, great story, and you've got a lot of detail there.
	But do you have any proof?
	Like, you have a, you know, part of a uniform that you might have had or, you know, a pay slip.
	You know, if somebody's been paying you to do this, then there will be evidence of that.
	And they were questions that I didn't think could be totally answered.
	So that's always the difficulty with these things.
	Okay, let's move on to the moon.
	Lots of interest at the moment, especially this last year or so, in what might, especially as we're going back with Artemis to the moon.
	There's a lot of interest in what might be on the side of the moon that we don't see.
	The moon is the hardest thing to find visual evidence of right now because NASA has been wiping things out forever, practically our entire lifetimes.
	So, you know, they've wiped out just about everything.
	I did happen to get lucky and on the side of the moon that faces Earth, I actually found a white pyramid.
	And it's a good size.
	It's more than a football field on each side.
	And it's white.
	You can actually see the sharp edges.
	But that's very, very rare to be able to find something like that.
	And there was a woman who worked for NASA a long time ago.
	Are you familiar with, I shouldn't ask it that way.
	There's a woman who was an artist who handled the photos and exposed the fact that NASA was having artists airbrush out the visual evidence they were finding on the moon.
	And so in the book that I'm working on, I have the transcript of her radio interview, which was back in 1995 on a WOLAM radio in Washington, D.C. And she exposed the fact that that was being done.
	And I also am including a leaked photo.
	It really must have been a slide because it has labels on the top and bottom of it.
	And one of the labels says moon tower evidence.
	The other one says two massive tower structures in terrain covered by tampering applications.
	Now, those are direct quotes from the labeling on this.
	And the airbrushing has not been done that well.
	So you can kind of see where these two towers would have been.
	And when you say tampering applications, do you mean doctoring of the images?
	Those are the words from NASA.
	So that's my interpretation.
	But the actual words, two massive towering structures in terrain covered by tampering applications.
	So I would say that would be cover-up applications.
	You don't have to tell me names, but many of the people who I've spoken with who say things akin to the things that you've been saying, nobody's quite saying this this way, but people who say things akin to it have often said to me, I've had phone calls from people who've said that they're ex-military or current military.
	They can't tell me who they are, and they're telling me that I'm on the right lines.
	Have you had that experience?
	Not with the moon or with Mars, but I have with one of the underground bases here in Western North Carolina.
	And I had one person who had grown up on a high security base where everybody who lived there had high security clearance.
	You know, she was just a kid growing up there.
	She knew about an underground facility beneath something that's known here as Perry, P-A-R-I.
	It stands for Pisca Astronomical Research Institute.
	And she, after a long time of making sure that she could trust me, revealed that that facility was being used to test mind control and do different things like that.
	And it was city-size, totally self-sufficient.
	And actually beneath this facility, I shouldn't say it that way, the original facility was part of NASA's tracking system.
	And then it became part of the Department of Defense.
	And then it supposedly has been turned over to the astronomical educational research type place.
	When I posted her information on the website, another man with high security clearance, who I had met in person and did not know he had those kind of credentials, he wrote a statement confirming what I had written or what this woman had said.
	The man with the clearance, I had actually met, had no idea he was involved with anything of a high security nature, actually knew him and his wife.
	So I had every reason to trust them.
	And he was following the website, skyshipsovercachers.com, and he read what I had posted, quoting this woman, about the secret facility beneath Perry, P-A-R-I.
	And he wrote a statement out, and he made it clear that he deliberately wrote it in a way that he would not normally write because he knew he could be identified by the writing pattern or the speech pattern.
	And so he then sent a written copy of his statement Through his wife to me, and I have never seen him again.
	He did not want to be seen with me because he was divulging this information.
	So that's the sum total of that little story.
	And this thing was clearly working under the auspices of a legitimate scientific research outfit at the beginning.
	What was he telling you they were doing there?
	He just confirmed what she had told me, which was it's a city-sized facility about six stories deep, totally self-sufficient, and that there was mind control efforts being done there.
	On a first-hand basis, because this is fairly close to where I live, whenever I've gotten near that place, you get this strange feel, or I got this strange feeling in my head.
	And on two occasions, I was near the place with three other people in the car.
	So we all felt this.
	And it's a very unpleasant sensation in your head.
	It's like, I need to get out of here.
	I don't want this.
	This doesn't feel right.
	I want out of here.
	And I call it people repellent.
	And I honestly think that they use some kind of electromagnetic energy force field of some kind that can be used to keep people at bay.
	And we know that, you know, if we look at cases in the modern world like Havana syndrome, as they call it, such technologies do exist, which begs the question, of course, how extensive would this facility and other underground facilities be?
	And what are they for?
	Which question do you want me to go with first?
	Well, it's one question in two, isn't it, really?
	You know, let's start with the what are they for?
	What are they for?
	Some of them are clearly just survival bases in case we have a major disaster like a meteor hitting or a nuclear disaster.
	So they would be survival places.
	There are places beneath the ground where important information and records are kept with that same concern in mind.
	So that's certainly one reason for it.
	But the fact that they're doing things that they don't want the public to know puts this in another category at the same time.
	So if they're doing mind control experiments, they don't want the public to know that.
	So there can be multiple reasons that these things exist.
	Okay, and you think that it's much more, which brings us to the scale of the operation, which was part one of what I asked there in my double question.
	They are much more than just shelters for potential nuclear attack.
	Yes, and I'm not smart enough or knowledgeable enough to know everything that might be going on under the ground, but there are certainly great efforts to keep it hidden.
	There have been multiple reports from people with really good credentials, like one of the witnesses, ex-military, another one was a former sheriff's deputy in Florida and moved here for health reasons.
	And they have reported hearing and feeling machinery type sounds and vibrations coming up from the ground where some of these underground facilities are located.
	Interestingly, more than one of them has reported that these sounds usually stop about five in the morning.
	So what they're doing is whatever kind of machinery they're operating on with, they must be doing it in the hours where people on the surface are less likely to be aware of it.
	Well, that makes some sense.
	But wouldn't there be evidence of that kind of level of construction and works in the roads leading up to those facilities and in particular the North Carolina facility that you talk about?
	Wouldn't you be able to see large plant on the backs of large trucks?
	Yes, and we have.
	And what's interesting is the facility I've been talking about, Perry, is probably the oldest of the five that I've written about.
	The newest one was built under the Smoky Mountain National Park, which is really quite an extensive park.
	And this facility is beneath a part where the tourists don't go as much.
	And so we were able to see signs of the building being done in the early stages of it.
	And for example, there's this one road with a crazy name.
	I assume it's Indian.
	It's Kaintugi Road.
	And it's like a gravel road up on a mountain ridge.
	This facility, this secret facility is beneath that ridge.
	And for, oh, I think it may have been about two years, that road was closed off.
	The bogus reason was that it had been washed out by some kind of a downpour and they had to reconstruct the road.
	Well, there had been no storm like that.
	It was a bogus thing, but that was evidence that something was going on there by having a road closed off for an extensive period of time.
	Two of the witnesses, and again, I knew both of them before any of this began to happen.
	Both the man and his wife were retired military, and they were in Cherokee, which is adjacent to the Smoky Mountain National Park.
	And they saw this truck parked just south of the park.
	And it was a long bed truck with a, I don't know, a piece of machinery on the back of it.
	And the guy, both he and his wife said it looked like a decontamination chamber.
	And they actually went up and talked to the driver who said that she was waiting there for other trucks and they were going to be delivering equipment to another location where it would be airlifted to the site.
	So this couple kind of hung back and watched and it became a convoy of trucks all with, I think it was Navy tarps over the back of them.
	And they were also escorted by white SUVs with people dressed in black and having, you know, gun-type ammunition or, you know, guns with them.
	And this couple followed them.
	This convoy went to one of the camping areas, pulled off into this place, and then they closed the entrance to that campground.
	And of course, the couple couldn't go any further.
	This is fairly close to where this underground facility is.
	So from there, things were being airdropped right to the facility.
	During that time, we also were able to get photos of major equipment like Ospreys helicopters and the workhorses of the helicopters where they were making drops in that area.
	We also got a photo of a plane, like a cargo type plane, and it's pulling out of the park area and going off to the west, and the tailgate is still not yet closed.
	So we got evidence that major things were going on there.
	If you were doing mind control experiments, you could do them in a research institute somewhere above ground.
	Why do you think they need below ground facilities for such things?
	That's a really good question.
	And I do not know.
	I mean, it can get really, it can get creepy.
	For example, one of the witnesses that talked to me was a social worker.
	And he said that there were many cases of satanic activities near that Perry facility.
	When he reported it to the State Bureau of Investigation, they chose not to do anything with it.
	So you can't make an absolute conclusion about it, but you do have to wonder.
	So there is a huge mystery, five different sites that you've investigated.
	Correct.
	How can you take that research forward?
	I can only take it so far because there's no way that I can personally get into these facilities myself.
	And up to this point, I've had the good fortune of talking to people who have either worked within the facilities or have actually been there as eyewitnesses to either seeing and or hearing what's going on.
	So there's a great deal of good fortune in coming across this kind of information.
	Are you surprised that you don't hear from more people, bearing in mind these are huge civil engineering projects, that you don't hear from more people involved in them?
	No, I'm not surprised because I've heard enough that I know that they are threatened, you know, if they reveal these kind of things.
	I found out a couple of people who have worked at the Perry facility, and man, they will acknowledge that, but nothing more.
	And they clam right up.
	So there's an absolute fear factor in keeping them from talking.
	Of course, national security has its limits.
	If things are being done, quotes, in our name, in a clandestine way, then I guess we can understand that if it's for our security to keep us safe from adversaries internal and external.
	But you think that there is something much deeper than this.
	It's just a question of what it might be.
	I don't have all the absolute answers, but when you hear things like a lot of satanic stuff going on around a facility like this, you go, hmm, what in the world are these connected or not?
	You know, there's nothing that can be absolute.
	And this Perry facility, I've actually updated information on it fairly recently.
	I got a call from a man.
	I think it originally started out as an email, and he lives in the area.
	And he reported to me that they were hearing and feeling new vibrations around that facility.
	Well, there had been no signs of any new expansion up to that point.
	And so I got the Google Earth Pro out and started scanning the area.
	And I found evidence of a very large hole in the ground.
	You could see down into it, but most of it was covered by two gigantic tarps.
	And there was earth-moving equipment that I could see in the Google images.
	And this dirt from this hole was being spread out evenly over the adjacent hill so that they wouldn't have a mound that would make it obvious that digging was going on there.
	So here I received this information from an area resident, and then I began to check it out and found out that indeed this kind of thing was happening.
	One of the nice things about Google Earth Pro is that you can go back in time and see what the images were previously.
	So in 20, let's see, in 2017, there were no signs of any new digging going on.
	2018 is when I found all these images of the new hole in the ground and the long bed trucks and the excavator equipment around that hole.
	And what being guarded by military?
	Not that I could see on the Google image.
	And again, that facility is very puzzling.
	Sometimes you can drive right in there.
	Most of the times you have to have an appointment or it has to be announced that it's open to the public.
	One man who was a retiree from the Air Force, a young retiree, said that he and one of his other fellow Air Force guys had seen a soldier in, I don't know, tactical gear at the entrance.
	That is not the case all the time.
	I've also heard reports of there have been occasions where there had been small little convoys of black vehicles going into the place.
	Your timing would have to be exquisite to be able to be there at the time that that happened so that you could take photos.
	But those are things I can't confirm in absolute writing, but they're the kind of things that keep coming out that tell me something is indeed still going on there.
	Do you think freedom of information requests would help you?
	You know, I don't know if I have the patience to do that.
	I admire the people that do.
	Well, there's John Greenwald from the Black Vault who spent 25 years doing it.
	Yes, yes.
	That's a full-time job.
	And it takes a tremendous amount of patience and effort.
	And you have to be really smart about the way you ask your questions.
	That is not a specialty I have developed.
	Let's move on to this.
	You recently reported on something I didn't even know that there was a John Lennon Light Memorial in Iceland.
	I mean, look, I'm a liver pugly, and John Lennon is one of my heroes in my lifetime.
	And you say that you've had reports and you know reports of so-called UFOs circling John Lennon's light memorial in Iceland.
	What's that all about?
	Actually, I first learned about this in 2013 because of a man that contacted me from the Netherlands.
	And he had photos or a video that he had taken of a UFO or UFO circling this tower of light.
	Now, to paint a picture for your listeners, Yoko Ono built what she called the Imagined Peace Tower, and she had it built in Iceland in the capital city.
	And it's intense blue beam lights that beam straight up into the air.
	So it becomes like a tower of light.
	And so there were pictures of UFOs going around or circling that tower of light.
	I brought the article back up again after Julian Lenin sang his dad's song Imagine for the first time, which he did kind of as a prayer for peace and also to help support or do fundraising for the people of Ukraine.
	And I thought, oh, this is a good time to bring that story back up.
	Right.
	Well, I think that's fascinating.
	I must admit, John, like I say, is one of my heroes.
	I didn't know about any of this.
	So, you know, I need to do some more reading about this.
	Well, it almost sounds like something might be interpreting those lights as a signal.
	Many of us feel that might be the case.
	Okay.
	They deliberately spiral around it, and that's what they do.
	It spiraled around it.
	Well, that is it.
	I mean, that sounds very Phoenix lights to be continued, as they say.
	Just finally, I know that you are also interested as I am in cryptozoology on my radio show, on my TV show, as it is now.
	Last night I had a man called Andy McGrath on, who's the author of books, Beasts of Britain and Beasts of the World now these days.
	He's charted Bigfoot stories from around the world.
	One of the ones that he talks about are the swamp apes.
	And I think these are from the Everglades of Florida, aren't they?
	And I think you've have an interest in these.
	It's very, very difficult to find evidence of Bigfoot, and it's even more difficult to find evidence of swamp apes.
	And the most recent posting that I did on the website was a video that was filmed by a guy who was in a swamp in Mississippi, which is another state here in the U.S. And he was hog hunting.
	So he had on his camouflage clothes.
	He was sitting real still waiting for one of the wild hogs so he could shoot it.
	And because he was so still, because he was in camouflage, the Bigfoot didn't know he was there.
	And so he was able to video this swamp ape digging into the base of a very large cypress tree, like a hole at the bottom of it.
	And, you know, you can't know if the creature was eating the inside bark or if there were termites or something inside there that it liked to eat, but it was clearly taking off strips of bark, doing something and throwing the bark into the shallow water.
	I encourage people to expand the video on their screen and to turn up the audio because the audio and the vision or the visual sinks completely and it does not look like somebody has staked this.
	And at the very end, it ends because the Bigfoot went to a full standing position, freaked the guy out, and he went off running.
	Which only added credibility to the whole thing.
	And further mystery.
	One of the questions I asked Andy McGrath that is the most baffling question of all of them about cryptids of this kind is why are they so elusive?
	Why do you think that they've managed, if, as I suspect they do, they exist in countries all over the world, from Australia to outer Mongolia to the United Kingdom to your country and South America too?
	How do you think that they've been able to keep their themselves as private as they do?
	I can't blame them.
	The more I see of what mankind has been doing lately, the more I think we ought to be avoided at all cost.
	So that's understandable.
	Yeah, that's true.
	But I can't tell you.
	They come out at night.
	They're nocturnal.
	So when most humans are out and about, they're generally not where the people are.
	That's not an absolute, but that's when they usually do their hunting.
	I don't know.
	I think they also have the keen ability to sense people coming at a distance.
	And so they can take for cover long before a human would even know they were around.
	And if they've kept abilities that we've lost because of our technological society, maybe they have that ability that most of us have to know when somebody's watching you or surveying you.
	Right.
	Right.
	And we have lost that.
	We as human beings have, if we still have it, it's minimized greatly.
	So maybe they still have it.
	And so, well, animals have it too, so much more than humans do because we cut it off.
	Just very quickly, you've also, and I didn't know there was such a category until I spoke with Andy Bograth last night.
	You've also researched Littlefoot.
	That's small creatures like Bigfoot?
	This is something I never would have gotten into because it sounds so fanciful.
	But then I found out about a little mummy called the Pedro Man that was found out in the western part of the U.S. And this mummy has been analyzed by, I think, the American Museum of Natural History and by Harvard University.
	And they confirmed that it's real.
	It's only about, let's say, 14 inches tall.
	It had a terrible death.
	Somebody had smashed its head to the point where the brain was visible.
	The collarbone had been broken.
	The spine had been messed up.
	So when I found out that there was confirmation from two respected institutions, I began to be more open to the possibility about writing about these little tiny people.
	And I now believe that the little people that I've written about are really giants because they're about three feet tall.
	And these little tiny ones are in the 12 to 14 inch category.
	So there are gradations.
	And as far as you are aware, are there contemporary sightings of these little people?
	Like I said, I do have a story.
	I posted it recently.
	But I would not have posted it if I hadn't learned about this little mummy, because that gave credibility to that possibility.
	And this man who, you know, obviously told me who he was, but he did not want his name used because he's a professional.
	He thought too many people would dismiss him as a kook.
	But he did tell me his story.
	And in a nutshell, he and his buddies went to a place in South Carolina in a national forest to go fishing.
	So the night before, they're camping with the intention of getting up the next morning to go fishing in the river.
	And during that time, this little creature that probably looked like a gnome popped up on top of a little mound of dirt and in a language they couldn't understand, greeted them and seemed quite friendly.
	Well, one of the guys freaked out and was about ready to pound him in the ground.
	And the little guy took off.
	The human guy backed off and the little creature came back and was pissed off and gave them what I would call the universal Italian sign for up yours.
	And because he didn't like being treated the way he was.
	Well, I think it was many years later, this gentleman talked to somebody else who used to camp in that area.
	And they said that there was this little guy that would come out, sounded like the same one he had seen, and they always gave him beer.
	So this man reflected that in hindsight, the little guy was showing up, being friendly, hoping he would get a beer from these young men.
	Well, I'm with him on that.
	You know, if there's beer available, I'll be there.
	Mary, it is a mysterious world indeed.
	Just, and I know you did this on my radio show a while ago, but just for those who perhaps are hearing you for the first time here, tell me the story quickly of the name of your website, Skyships Over Cashiers, because that's a place and that's an event you refer to.
	Right.
	That website was started because we kept seeing so many UFOs over this mountaintop town called Cashiers.
	It's spelled just like a cashier at the grocery store.
	And that's the origin of the name.
	At that point, we had no idea this would be expanding into Bigfoot and Little People and Giants and underground bases.
	If we had known it was going to go in that direction, we probably would have picked a different name.
	But that's the origin of it.
	You know what?
	I'm glad you didn't because it's a great name and you never, ever forget it.
	It's like people, when I speak with them, they say, Howard Hughes, are you putting me on?
	Really?
	And I say, that was my, you know, the name I was christened with.
	And yeah, I am Howard Hughes.
	So you keep Skyships Over Cashiers.
	I think it's been lucky for you and probably will continue to be so.
	Mary Joyce, thank you for your time.
	I appreciate it.
	You have a good day.
	Great guest hey, Mary Joyce.
	From Skyships Over Cashiers, very interesting and diligent person, somebody who spends a lot of time researching.
	I've been talking, I'm lucky enough to talk for many years, to people who give so much effort and so much of their time and involvement into actually collating stories.
	You know, that takes a lot of concentration.
	You know, I've got the attention span of a gnat.
	I think it would be very hard for me to keep great box files of documents and stuff like that and keep track of them.
	But there are people in this world like the UFO researcher Philip Mantle and Mary Joyce who are able to keep hold of vast amounts of information and, you know, make sense of it all.
	I have huge respect for all of that stuff.
	I tend to flip from topic to topic.
	That's the excitement that I get.
	So Mary Joyce, the guest on this edition, your thoughts about her, gratefully received.
	Any guest suggestions, thoughts about the show, anything you want to do, please go to the website theunexplained.tv.
	You are dismissed.
	Thank you for being part of this.
	My name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained Online.
	And please, until next we meet, stay safe, stay calm, and please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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