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May 2, 2022 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
56:53
Edition 631 - Shao Ma - China UFOs

Chinese/Australian UFO researcher and Attorney Shao Ma on the history and specifics of UFO reporting in China...

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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
I hope that life is being good to you at the moment.
Certainly very busy one way or another for me here, but you know, it's all good.
It's all good.
The weather, since you asked, is quite spring-like and overcast here.
So it's quite mild, but the skies are still kind of grey, but you can see the sun behind them.
So there's hope.
There's hope for the spring and the summer here.
That's the weather report from London.
Thank you very much for all of your emails.
I'm going to do a few shout-outs here coming soon.
If you want to get in touch with me, know that you can go to my website, theunexplained.tv, follow the link, and you can send me an email from there.
And if you've made a donation to the online show, thank you very much.
People like Michael, Michael, thank you very much indeed for your donation recently.
And you, if you've made one.
It's very, very kind and will allow me to keep going independently here on the online show, which is where it all started.
16 years ago, we're now into year 17.
Where did my life go?
17 years.
Well, it's not quite 17 years.
The guest on this edition of The Unexplained is Chinese-Australian UFO researcher Xiao Ma.
Now, ufology in China is something that is not hugely widely discussed, and we'll hear some of the reasons for that.
There is a lot of secrecy and a lot of...
You'll hear that too.
So please understand when we have some of these conversations that Xiaoma has to be circumspect in the way that she puts this information across.
But it's fascinating because these are stories and this is information that we don't normally get to hear.
Xiaoma in Sydney, the guest on this edition of The Unexplained.
We're going to talk about UFOs and ufology in China.
Thank you very much to Adam, my webmaster, for his continued work on the website and getting these shows out to you.
All right, shout outs.
Travis in Melbourne, Australia.
Nice to hear from you, Travis.
Nick at Tiptree in Essex, where I think they make the marmalade, don't they?
Nick.
Phil and Wendy in Ontario, nice to hear from you again, Phil and Wendy.
They saw a shooting star they were watching from their car as they were listening to one of my shows.
They said it was quite portentous in a way.
That's not the word that they used, but that was the impression that I got.
Stephen, thank you very much for your fab UFO motorbike photos.
You've got a motorbike that has UFO as the registration plate, which is pretty damn cool.
And Mike in Yorkshire, just finally, says, I have a strange UFO, a strange story, rather, and I'm wondering if anybody else has reported anything similar.
As a child of maybe eight, says Mike in Yorkshire, I remember being in the back seat of the family car with my sister alongside me, my mother in the passenger seat and my father driving.
It was dusk.
We were in a remote location, but I can't remember exactly where.
Maybe the Yorkshire Dales.
As we rounded a corner, there was a sound that seemed to flood into the car.
I can only describe it as being like a beautiful choir singing, just maybe a couple of notes, and then it stopped.
It was the most angelic of sounds, but only for a few seconds, and then it ended.
There were no buildings around, no people.
It was open countryside.
Mike says my blood ran cold with fear because it was so strange.
It was almost like the sound was inside my head.
I froze and said nothing.
My mother turned to my father and said, what on earth was that?
It sounds like we're in heaven.
I've never forgotten her exact words.
My sister and father claimed to have heard absolutely nothing, but my mother confirmed that she heard some angelic-like singing just for a few seconds, like I describe to this day.
It's a mystery to me 50 years on.
Nothing else strange happened on that journey.
And I am wondering, says Mike, if anybody else has stories like that.
That almost sounds to me as if you crossed through just briefly a portal of some kind and you heard sound from there, but not, as we so often hear with paranormal experiences, not everybody experienced it.
Certainly not in the same way.
What a great story, Mike.
Thank you for that.
You can always get in touch with me if you have a story.
Put in the subject line, my story.
Go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
Follow the link and you can email me from there.
Right.
The guest on this edition of The Unexplained, Shao Ma, a Chinese-Australian UFO researcher, a fascinating person.
The sound quality from Xiao's laptop is not the very best, but I think you'll be able to understand what is being said.
But just to let you know that the actual sound quality, I worked on getting it the best that I can.
And I think it's okay.
So, a fascinating guest, a completely different subject, UFOs in China.
Xiaoma in Sydney is there now.
Xiao thank you very much for coming on my show.
Thanks for inviting me.
Now, Xiao, we're going to be talking about UFOs in China, but you're not there, are you?
Not at this stage.
I'm actually based in Sydney, Australia at this moment.
Okay.
And, you know, did you, have you been in Sydney for long?
Is it, you know, is it something that's been a long-term thing or have you only recently arrived?
Oh, yeah.
So I basically came to Australia quite a few years ago, back in 2000, I would say, too.
So I've been here for almost 18 or 19 years now.
So yes, but I do go back to China every now and then.
Okay, I need to know a little bit about you because I've got a biography here, and it's only a very skeletal biography here.
It says that you are a Chinese-Australian UFO and consciousness expert.
You were formerly, not now, but the director of the International China UFO Research Organization.
And in Australia at the moment, you're a practicing attorney.
That's quite a mix.
Yes, that is.
So I'm working as a full-time attorney.
So in UK, as you will call it, as a solicitor.
So as my part-time, basically, whether you want to call it a hobby or a research paper, would it be focused on ufology and a spiritual study?
So I call consciousness researcher.
So basically, not as an expert, but more like a researcher.
Yes.
And how do you believe, if you do believe, and a lot of people do these days, that the fields of consciousness research and ufology intertwine?
Oh, yes.
Thank you.
That's a great question, Howard.
I've learned that from a gentleman called Ray Hernandez.
He believed that regardless whether the ufology, near this experience, or, you know, religion, they all tied up with the ultimate, basically, whether you want to call it goal or the doorway, that would be the consciousness.
So everything is interconnected with consciousness.
So that's the ultimate goal of ufology and the spirituality.
Look, I do believe ufology or near-death experience are related to humans' consciousness, consciousness expansion.
And sometimes the things that people say that they have experienced, you know, if they've had an encounter or they claim an alien abduction or whatever they claim, you know, sometimes those are things that impinge upon the consciousness.
They have an aspect to them that is more than physical, three-dimensional.
It's more than that.
It's something that actually impinges upon their actual consciousness and sensibilities.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
So that's what I actually learned from Ray and quite a few other researchers.
That is once humans' consciousness start to expand, they will experience different things.
For example, like out-of-body experience, C-A-U-F-O, just because they will have that heightened, what do you want to call psychic power or not?
So I do believe, regardless, you know, whether someone have different experience, it's ultimately connected with that person's soul expansion, or in other words, it's related to humans' consciousness.
So yes, I do agree with that comment.
Yes.
Now, in Australia, now you're a practicing attorney and the UFO stuff is something that you do, you know, beyond your normal working life.
Now, the way that I understand it, the law is all about proof.
There are two sides there trying to prove a case.
It's adversarial and the truth wins out.
Well, that's the way it's supposed to work.
How does that work when you're investigating UFOs?
Because it's such a gray area, literally.
I think it's actually really hard, especially for doctors and lawyers or even scientists.
Those people are relatively speaking are quite educated person.
So we use our analytical brand too much sometimes.
So we want to basically only believe in such a thing that is, you know, you can touch and you can see.
But it's very difficult for those people to believe anything that beyond three dimensions.
So it took me quite a while to adjust.
So I think it would be much easier for people with, you know, artistical skills or musical skills.
It would be much easier for them to break into consciousness study because they use their right brand much more.
So they can benefit from that.
So look, the truth is I will struggle a bit for quite a few years to fully understand what that truly is and what it actually means for me.
It's actually a tough journey for a lot of professionals.
So yeah.
So if it's something that is so challenging and has been so challenging for you, and I can understand because the law is about logic and it's about fact.
And as we said, ufology is a gray area.
Why did you do this?
Well, I think I just had my turning point, let's call it this way.
So if you don't want to share two or three minutes background information about myself.
Sure.
So I was a graduate lawyer, was a baby lawyer back then.
So one day I traveled to our law firm's Brisbane office.
That's when I actually saw a UFO craft outside of the window.
So that was actually pretty challenging for me because it's actually challenged my belief system and my paradigm being shifted.
So I start to ask myself, are we the only species in this universe?
So that's how I start to do more research.
I think ultimately I've got to come in here and just ask, just for clarity, really, you were in the Brisbane office of the law firm and you looked out of the window and you saw a UFO as you thought it was.
What did you see?
That was a pretty common round-shaped silver color disc.
So just hovering outside of my office window, not moving, very steady.
So by the time I tried to pick up my iPhone, that was very early version of my iPhone, tried to take a picture of it, it just gone.
So it really shaken me a bit.
I was like, okay, that thing could be, you know, a lot of people call UFO.
So I started to do more research into it.
So it's just a very common, you know, UFO crypto.
And it's the kind of thing that, you know, a lot of people report.
They say that they've seen something in the sky that looks anomalous.
So this was, what, a kind of silver disc-shaped thing?
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
But I do feel like I've been drawn to see that because I was actually looking at paperwork on my desk.
And all of a sudden, I've just been pulled.
But I've got a, it's more like a download or an idea in my mind.
Like, I better look out of the window, you know, just check things out.
And out of blue, I don't know why.
So I start to check outside the window and then I saw a UFO craft.
So I believe those things may have consciousness so they can use telepathy to communicate with humans.
Like, oh, why don't you look outside the windows?
You know, you may find something interesting.
So during that time, I wasn't know what that is.
But now looking back, Howard, and I believe it's actually not a pure coincidence.
Right.
So you felt impelled to look out of the windows as if something was calling to you.
That's correct.
Yes.
Okay.
And it's a bit of a big step, isn't it, to seeing something.
I get a lot of emails from listeners.
Every week now, I get emails from listeners with photographs that they've taken on their phones and they think that they may be anomalous, something strange in the sky.
Not all of those people are going to become investigators.
They're not going to research the topic.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I agree.
People are just so fascinated by those unknown crafts.
So I do believe most of them are real reports.
I do believe that real settings.
Now, I understand that after this and the research that you did was a bit of a breakthrough for you because if I've got the biographical story right, you wrote an article about what you'd experienced and that article was published in China.
It's partially correct.
So I wrote an article about, it's more like my insight into Chinese ufology.
So the area is not just about, you know, what's going on, but also a touch on the political suppression in China in terms of not just UFO, but also spiritual practice and what's really going on there.
The UFO associations, how do they actually run in China?
And the Chinese sort of like a Chinese attitude towards ufology and spiritual studies.
So I think it's a very short summary of my observation of what's going on in China.
So that article was actually sort of circulating around in the community.
So it's not publicly published yet, but I do believe it will be published in coming weeks or months.
Okay, and you say that, and I didn't know this, that the article was partly about, we hear a lot about the Chinese government and its attitude to information and to what people talk about, but you actually wrote in that article about the way people who were interested in ufology or spirituality or anything beyond the norm are treated in China.
Is that so?
Yeah, basically it also contains my information about my observation about other cases.
So I'll say yes.
Okay, well, there's a lot to unpick there.
Let's go here first.
We generally associate UFOs simply because I think the English-speaking media makes a lot of these things in a way that the media in other countries perhaps doesn't.
But in any case, a lot of the things that happen in other countries don't get translated into English, so a lot of us in America and Australia and the United Kingdom, we don't get to hear about these things.
But we tend to think, and I'm sure we're wrong, but we tend to think that UFOs are things that happen over Arizona or California or New Jersey or London or Perth, Australia.
And most of us never really think about this being a phenomenon that affects China.
But if we think about it, we know that it is international.
There are sightings and encounters in places like Brazil.
And Russia has a long and rich history of these things.
So of course they must have happened in China.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So I think we just need to build a bridge.
That's what we're actually doing right now, Howard, like you're interviewing me, or in the future we might interviewing you.
So I think the ufology information are very North America-centric.
So if you check YouTube, there's so much information came from like a, sorry, come from USA and Canada and some information from European countries like UK and other countries.
But I believe it's due to language barriers and also such topic is very sensitive in China.
So you don't get much information within mainland China about what's going on.
But lucky enough, I do actually have quite a few contacts in China and also I did quite a few interviews in China as well.
So feel free to ask me.
I'm more than happy to share what's going on in China in terms of ufology and the spirituality.
So yeah.
All right, before I ask you about specific stories and experiences of specific people, certainly in the past, I understand that there was a price to be paid.
Those people who were interested in these things and dared to talk about them perhaps publicly.
You know, some of them, I know that in one case, you knew a woman who was put in prison for eight years because of what she discussed.
I believe that's correct.
So that was a case.
Sorry, I can't remember precise detail.
I need to check.
Happening in a province in China right now.
So apparently she believed in ufology, but nothing wrong with that back then.
But the issue was she made some sensitive comments about, you know, ufology and also politics, which really upset the Chinese Communist Party.
So that's whether or not it's a purely political sort of suppression, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure that there's some elements sort of within the politics.
That's how actually she's been affected.
But what I can see is that at this stage, China is not very open towards civilians study on ufology.
So what I feel is right now in China, they just want to have that topic fully studied by the government only.
So it's a very suppressed area at this stage in China.
Should I read into that that the Chinese government perhaps knows things about this phenomenon?
Look, China is a vast country, enormous variety, many different peoples within China.
You know, it's a big place.
And it would be If we assume that the American government, which I think is a fairly safe assumption to make in this forum that we're talking on, knows more than they're telling.
Similarly, then the Chinese government must know a great deal more about this subject.
But the difference between the United States and China, perhaps, is that if the Chinese government decides we want to keep this within bounds, we want to control this, they can.
Well, I think almost like all the major worlds, sorry, governments in this world are more or less study on those subjects, especially reverse engineering crafts.
So I would be not surprised that China may, you know, I mean talking about a local government in China to really look into that subject.
But again, I don't have too much information in terms of what Chinese government up to, to be honest.
So I could not come a vote on that.
But besides, sorry, just touch on that case.
Yes, she was actually put in jail, but there is a boundary in terms of ufology study in China.
Like the attitude from the local government is that if you don't cross a boundary, I will touch on the boundary later on, if you just want to do some minor research, talk about it, it's not overly too bad.
You might lucky enough to get away with it.
But if you accidentally make any comments in terms of politics or if you attract too many audience, you may get in trouble because they may see that, you know, he or she starts to have a big influence and they may consider that could be destabilized, you know, potentially speaking, government.
So you might get some repercussion from the government.
So that's just everything you basically do in China, you need to be very cautious and be very careful.
So yeah.
Okay.
Does that mean that most people then might be aware of the phenomena, but don't bother to look into it too much because there's too much of a risk you might put a foot in the wrong direction and then get into trouble?
I think I'm inclined to believe so because firstly it's the financial pressure, right?
So because China is so big, if you hear a case, you know, somewhere in the northern part of China, and where you're based in the south part of China, or take you a lot of money to travel to that location, do research.
So money part is the first issue.
The second issue you rise to do is the political sensitivity, because if you accidentally happen to know something a bit more, or you might have certain technology, the government, the local government could be quite nosy.
They want to know where you are being up to, what you know, what have you collected.
So they basically want to micro-control a lot of like information technology.
So you might cross the line, even though sometimes you don't know.
So to answer your question, I agree with you.
Such a topic is very sensitive in China.
So there are not many proper researchers in China look into that subject.
I mean, to do is like civilian level, but I'm sure from the governmental level, there are many experts working on those cases, which we just don't know.
You say a lot of people have contacted you with their stories.
And I think you've also said in other interviews that some of the people you have as contacts are kind of connected to the government or certainly the military or something like that.
What sorts of stories do you get told?
Well, most of the stories are more civilian level.
Like could be a very superficial level.
For all you know, I had a sighting of UFO, this and that.
I dreamed of the aliens, which is very common.
You can hear from other people.
Some are more extensive.
You know, people have very heightened awareness about what's going on.
So those people are very spiritual and conscious in China.
So we're talking about a very substantial, large population in China who are very aware and fully awakened.
But again, those people are pretty smart.
So they know what to say, what not to say.
That means there are a lot of, say, hidden population knows what's going on, but they won't really talk about it in public.
But there are a very small percentage of people who actually know a bit more.
They probably hear from the government.
Like, for instance, as I mentioned before, there was a one gentleman who actually I better be careful about what I say because he probably know a bit more than average Jioblo, let's put this way.
So yeah, he shares some information with us, which really mind-blowing.
I do believe that the Chinese government, just like all other major governments, are working on those reverse engineering crafts.
So yeah.
Okay.
And what did this, can you tell me a little bit more about what this person told you about the technology they experienced?
Not so much.
I don't think it's actually appropriate to mention it here just because I need to be sorry.
I beg your pardon.
Please forgive me.
Firstly, I think, well, I don't know too much specifically about the technology.
The second is we made an agreement not to talk about that too much, but all I can share is basically a framework about what he actually shared.
So in short summary, so what he actually told me, he's actually quite a viable guy, is that we do believe all the major governments, not just China, they all working on those crafts, you know, reverse engineering certain things, and they may have some technologies from different beings.
So I do believe aliens have not just signed a single treaty with just American government.
And if you hear other interviews from different people, you will see that Canadians And even UK local governments have signed different treaties with aliens.
So I will not be surprised that China might have a treaty with aliens.
But again, I'd rather not put in confirmation.
That's just my personal opinion or assumption.
Let's say this way.
America is moving closer towards disclosure, they tell us.
Possible congressional hearings and perhaps more information coming out this year.
If China is also a party to communication with aliens and knows about these things and is perhaps back engineering the technology, do you not think, and just your thought about this, that the government of China would, especially, I think Xi Jinping is now, isn't he about to equal the ruling record of Ma Zedong?
I think he's been in office very nearly as long as Chairman Mao was in office.
Wouldn't there be great prestige for them to be the ones who beat America to revealing the truth?
Or does it not work that way?
Well, from my observation, so China seems like move relatively slow on that subject.
If you just look at the way how they respond to those topics in the past, you will see that they always wait for literally half year.
So they will let the American government reveal more information on the subject matter.
For instance, last year, as you know, Howard, the Pentagon just released a report, which is, you know, to do with UFOs.
So they waited for a few months and then China just stepped in.
So actually, we have formed this, I think, called the UFO observer team.
I can't remember, I beg your pardon, like central unit to observe and study this subject matter.
So every time when they release certain information, it's always one step, a little bit slower than the US government.
So I think from my observation, again, just personal opinion, I'm not an insider, nothing to do with politics.
I believe that they are very conservative in terms of how much they want the people to know about it.
But since US made the first move, they need to catch up.
So I think that will be their attitude in the future.
So they will always wait the US to make a move first and then they make the second move.
But again, I need to emphasize it's just my personal opinion.
Yeah, maybe there are other people, like more insiders who are known more, which I'm not entitled to those information.
It's just personal view.
So yeah.
Before we talk about specific stories, my listeners love specific stories and reports.
So I'd like to try and get into a couple of the stories that you've perhaps received.
Just a little bit about the history of UFO sightings.
I mean, we know that there are cave paintings in various parts of the world that appear to depict strange craft and possibly beings of different heights with certain technologies that they display.
Now, the Communist Party of China hasn't always been in control.
Most of Chinese history, it did not exist.
So, what sorts of things did people experience in the past?
I mean, I can give you one example, and this was a very turbulent time in China's history, I know, where the nationalists and the communists were vying for control.
But 1938, there was this thing they call China's Roswell that I only found out about today when I was reading up about this.
Hundreds of strange discs that were found in a cave, apparently, I think in western China.
Oh, yeah.
It's called Dropa.
I think there's a race called Dropa.
That's how they actually call themselves, I remember.
You were right, Howard.
I heard about that famous case.
They arrived in, well, the area called China now, quite thousands of years ago, and they mingled with local, let's call Aboriginals during that time.
So I'll let you finish first.
Sorry, yeah.
No, no, no, that's fine.
I mean, that's literally all I know about this.
But there were a race of people called the Dropper, weren't there?
And the strange thing about this was in 1938, they found very strange, hundreds of them, disc-shaped objects within a cave.
That's literally all I know.
Yeah, absolutely.
Somehow they carve out certain stone into like pieces of, how you call it, like old-fashioned DVD shape.
Somehow, when you place those like DVD-shaped stone, well, like piece of disc basically, on certain vibration or tone, you can hear or you can extract certain information out of it.
It's more like a stone that is able to contain certain data information.
But again, according to the articles, there's no mention about what data are they.
I think the data could be referring to where they came from, why they're here.
So I understand that they had a UFO crash in China during that time.
So they saved a lot of data into that storm.
There are hundreds of them.
So the point I want to make is how those phenomenons are not just in North America.
It's literally everywhere, including China and the UK as well.
And specific stories, let's get into those.
And I'll start you off with 2002, and I have heard you talking about this elsewhere.
Apparently there were a number of sightings, and I think they were simultaneous, by pilots north of Nanjing.
2002, back in Nanjing.
I don't remember that case.
Are you referring to the airport case?
That's back in 2012?
Well, I've got this one.
ABC News from America reported this.
Very rare that you read these things.
July 14th, 2010, an unidentified flying object forced Zhaozhan Airport in Hangzhou, China to cease operations on the 7th of July.
How about that one?
A flight crew preparing for descent detected an object about 8.40 p.m. and notified the air traffic control department.
Aviation authorities responded within minutes and grounded outbound flights.
Yeah, yeah.
Look, you are right about that.
It was a very famous case.
And that case actually is one of my favorite cases, to be honest.
Reason being, there are a lot of truths that people don't know about it.
But I recall that case actually happened back in 2010.
So I might come back to you on that, 2010 or 2011.
So what happened is there were three layers to this incident.
The first layer of truth is when the incident literally just happened, there were news everywhere in Chinese media.
During that time, you have to understand that was back in 2010.
So the political climate wasn't that bad.
When I say that, I mean, it wasn't so suppressed.
So which means there are still some space that people can talk about ufology, you know, publish some articles about it in the media.
So wasn't that much control.
So when that incident happened, that means there was a like a cigar-shaped craft literally landed at the Hangzhou airport.
So the newspaper actually mentioned the first layer of truth.
The media said, oh, look, there was a no-craft hovering on top of the Hangzhou airport, which caused a shutdown of the entire airport for a few hours.
That's all the public know.
That's just the first layer of truth.
So there were a lot of people captured, so many different sightings, photos from their phone, but there are second layer of truth to it.
That's what I heard from a friend of mine who actually was at the airport during that time.
So he told me that the craft was actually landed, not just hovering on top of the sky above the airport.
So the craft actually landed, which caused the entire airport to shut down.
I think that happened around 7 p.m. dish, 7.30 p.m. dish to maybe midnight, I'm not sure, but for quite a few hours.
So after that craft landed, you know, special forces, special units came in, you know, they tried to shut down the airport, try to extract people's attention.
Now, you know, don't look at displays, don't worry, it's just, you know, drill, nothing happened, you know, just mind your own business, basically.
And they use some kind of special device to shut down the wireless somehow.
So there's no signal connections on people's phone.
But that's just maybe the tactics that they use.
So basically, according to my friend, the UFO actually landed, which is actually quite frightening when you think about it at the airport.
I don't know why, firstly, how it, like, why they choose a civilian airport rather than a military base, which is to my biggest surprise, I don't understand.
But again, I'm not alien, I don't know.
But certainly is truth, which is more critical, you don't really hear about that, is according to a quite reliable source, not only the craft landed, but in fact, there was a military personnel came and somehow they set out the military tank or something like that.
And then the doors opened, walk out, it was like three, an alien being came out of the place.
So the left, the right-hand side was the tall one.
The middle one, apparently, according to someone told me, the shorter version are very short.
So again, but size doesn't matter, right?
But there's a lot of details to it.
According to that source, somehow they met in person.
Somehow they strike a treaty.
But again, I'm not privileged to too much information about the details of the treaty.
But I do believe there's more to it, which is maybe may not be the best person to talk about it.
But you've talked to people who were actually there.
Now, that's very, very interesting.
And the fact that the media in China reported something about this, and the fact that international news agencies like America's ABC News reported this.
I mean, if that had happened, I mean, there was a famous incident over Chicago's O'Hare airport some years before that happened in 2010, 2011.
And, you know, that was widely reported and nothing was claimed to have landed there.
There was something over the airport.
But for something to reportedly or claimed to have landed there and for something to have got out of that, that's astonishing.
How much of that do you think is reality?
And how much do you think of that is people embellishing upon the story?
Well, you see, that's the difficulty part is as people like us, we are only privileged a lot of time to the information release from the newspaper and the media.
Because again, media are mainly controlled by the government.
So a lot of people only privilege to the first layer of the truth, like Hangzhou Airport incident.
People only know there's a UFO craft hovering on top of the airport, but nobody really knows about the second layer of the truth and third layer of the truth.
So according to, like, at least from my observation, I believe there's a lot of truth to it.
And I do trust that, how you say, like the source that told me what happened.
And I do believe maybe above 95% what's actually happened, that person was at the side.
And he actually very privileged to know much more information than me.
But again, I should not rebel too much.
You know, I'm just not the right person.
Again, I'm not the insider.
So look, this is an astonishing story, and it did make some international news.
But I guess because of The clampdown on information about this, that there must have been after this, if there was military involvement, it's going to be very hard to find out anything more about this, isn't it?
Absolutely, because I did some research on the subject matter after that, and I tried to see who else has studied that subject.
And also, if there's any witness will need to be interviewed.
To be honest, not just me, quite a few people tried.
The people who actually shared those photos back in 2010 or 11, you can't locate them anymore.
You can't locate them anymore.
What they've disappeared?
Well, not to the level of disappeared, but they might just moved on.
Or a lot of people may be told not to talk about it.
So that's why it's very difficult to extract more information regarding that case.
So I'll be very surprised if anyone are able to locate those people, like a witness, or find any deeper information about it.
Like if I can't, like, because I'm talking Chinese, like, I'm sorry, I can speak Chinese, right?
So that makes my research a bit easier in China.
So if I can't even find it, I'll be really surprised for a foreigner can find more information, at least from the civilian point of view, just because it's a language barrier.
And, you know, I've tried, even use all my resources and connections and try to find more information.
I just can't.
And for other information regarding that connection, just we are not able to explore that subject matter anymore.
You know, so it's a very sensitive subject.
I mean, you might be right.
You know, the international news knows about that case, but the news people heard about it, it's just the first layer of the truth.
You know, there's a UFO hovering on top of the, you know, Hanzhou airport.
That's all people can know about it.
But there's more to it, which people don't entitle, like not entitled to know, which is very sensitive.
So again, you know, I do believe ultimately, at least the information I want to share, I do believe USA, of course, is not the only country have signed a treaty with aliens.
Okay, and that's what people are saying, that after this landing, those creatures that came out of that craft were somehow ambassadors of some kind and some kind of agreement was signed.
I mean, it's an astonishing story.
And the two things to flag up about it, well, the three things to flag up about it was something definitely happened because they suspended traffic.
We know that at the airport.
But also the military were deployed there.
And seemingly from the reports that you've had, they tried to shut down communications around there by somehow blocking, which can be done.
I mean, there are restaurants in the UK that have technology.
This is a silly example, but have technology to block cell phones inside the restaurant.
So I'm sure the Chinese military would have technology to block communications if something like that happened.
That's an astonishing story.
Do you have any more stories that people have reported to you?
Give me a steer.
Tell me something that's been reported to you recently.
Thank you.
Could I just quickly just go back to that case just for a moment?
Sure.
What I found even more astonishing about that case is not just about how Chinese government react to that case.
Of course, they try to contain the situation, not to let people know too much, which is standard practice, as you know.
But I'm also really surprised for a few points.
Firstly, why those beings choose a civilian airport?
You know, they showcase at 7 p.m.
But why?
That was, you know, if you know 7 p.m. an airport, that's very peak time for an airport.
So that's really surprised to me.
So my assumption is that those beings want to let people know what's going on.
So there's no way the local government can hide that case anymore.
You see my point.
So if they make such big showcase, I trust that so many people, you know, saw it, took photos, talk about it.
So there's no way people can hide that case anymore.
So I think that's the aliens' intention.
There might be more to it, which I don't know too much.
I don't want to make a wrong assumption, but I think that's a very interesting case in terms of the intention from the government, but also the intention from the alien beings.
Why do they want to make such a loud, obvious, so public kind of lending in order to maybe, I'm just saying, maybe sound tricky.
Yes, just quite a surprise.
Well, at 7 p.m. on a night in July, that's an astonishing story.
Let's hope we hear more about that.
Just to ask you this before we hear other stories that you might have, Shao, is there any evidence that UFOs, as indeed has happened in the West, are interested seemingly in weaponry, in particular nuclear missiles?
Sir, I beg your pardon.
Could you repeat again?
I'm sorry.
You mean a case in US?
Yeah, in the United States, and also in other countries, we know of stories, and there are people who served in the military who will tell you this, of supposed craft closing down nuclear missiles, making them inoperative for a while, hovering over bases where they're stored, taking an interest in military bases, that kind of thing.
As far as you know, do those things happen in China?
Gee, you're asking a good question.
I don't know how much I can share.
I heard about it, to be honest.
I do.
That's all I can say.
I heard about it.
Like, I don't want to talk about nuclear and other things.
It's quite sensitive.
I beg your pardon, because you have to understand I'm still Chinese.
So I heard about that.
So that's all I can say.
Okay, you've heard about that.
Do you return to China, Xiao?
Presumably you do.
Well, now.
So what happened is back then, I had two conferences in China in terms of ufology, which is really upset the local government.
So, because of that, they basically, you know, extended practice according to those intelligence community.
So, they did a character assassination on me and did quite a few backstabbing.
So, ruined my reputation and also threatened me not to come back to China.
Because of that, I have not written to China for two or three years, but I'm okay with that given the COVID situation at the University.
Can I just clarify that?
Sorry to jump in again.
The technical quality of the sound is not the very best.
Did you say that you were advised not to return to China?
That is correct.
Yes, so they threatened me not to come back to China and also did a character assassination on me.
So, put me down and, you know, all sorts.
And as you can see, that's very common in a community.
If someone, you know, step up too much across the line, you may upset them.
So they would do this to destroy your reputation so that no one will follow you and no one want to listen to you anymore.
I understand why you have to be a little guarded now, not only for yourself, but also for the people who tell you things in China.
You need to keep them safe too.
Exactly.
So I need to also offer protection to someone told me those informations as well.
But again, you know, if they want to go deeper, I'll say to them, maybe I should not know too much.
Look, I'm just a simple person.
I just do this for whether you want to call hobby or research only.
I have no intention to go too deep because I don't think that I should be doing so.
So yeah.
Do you feel intimidated?
Yourself, you?
I think overall is okay because I know where the boundary is.
Kind of, you need to be a bit mindful while carry out my research or just communicate with my friends in the community.
So I think overall is okay as long as I don't go too far.
Let's put this thing.
I think that's that's an I respect everything that you said.
I just think it's important for my listener to understand why you haven't been able to go into the kind of detail on some of these things that they might have expected.
It's not because you don't know it or you don't want to, but there are practicalities concerned with being somebody from China.
Simple as that, doing this.
And that I understand.
My listeners love stories.
Sorry, you were saying.
Sorry, yes.
Part of it is like that, but the other part is I don't know too much.
You know, I'm quite a realistic person.
I only want to share.
Sorry, I'm quite a factual person.
I only can share what I know.
I cannot just, you know, bluff about what I don't know.
That's very, very refreshing.
I think, you know, let's just say that again for my listener.
You know, Shao does not extemporize on stuff she doesn't know.
And I think in this day and age, that's a very refreshing thing.
And I do respect that too.
Okay.
Let's conclude this then.
If there are any recent stories, perhaps one recent good story that somebody has told you that we can tell without compromising them or you can share this very interesting information.
Also, my friends told me.
And also according to my observation, is to my biggest surprise, there are a lot of hybrids in China.
I'm not talking about hybrids.
I'm talking about alien human hybrids.
So what happened is I've often received emails and also like, you know, as I mentioned before, I had two conferences in China before, so I got to meet quite a few people in person, not just, you know, interviews online.
So you can see those very subtle like facial or how you call it, those differences between those hybrids and other, how you call it, like normal humans, for the lack of better words.
So yeah, I was really surprised by that.
So I think a lot of time we don't know too much about what's going on, but those people are very well placed in China.
I don't know about their role, but I do believe just like other world, like, you know, they might come for a mission.
So like UK, there are a lot of hybrids, I'm sure, and the USA as well.
And those new generation, I mean, the younger generation will bring a lot of positive change to the world.
So I'm very happy to see that, which is very positive.
So some of them come with a very conscious mind, like they actually come with very conscious mindset about what's going on, even their past lives.
So, and also about their missions, what they're here to do.
So you will see like there will be a lot of transformation, like a major one will happen in China for the years to come.
I mean, in a very positive manner.
So yeah.
So that's that's interesting.
And again, you say that you don't speculate about things and you don't extemporize on stuff you don't know, but you believe from stuff that you've been told that there are hybrids, alien human hybrids, working and maybe assisting within China and that might bring about change.
I mean, those things might also be happening in the West, but you think that that's happening in China.
Is that right?
Well, I believe that when you say working, there's like what I want to put in this way is they are more like, you know, average residents in China.
So some of them in school age, some of them are in the younger generation, like early 20 years old or even be older.
So those people just, you know, get on their life.
But one day, when there's a change, and I do believe those people will make positive transformation.
Yes, it's not just, I use the word believe, but also based on my observation, because I met them in person, quite a few of them, you know, come to the conferences, had a chat with me.
You know, I remember where I came from, which is star system.
I'm here to do this and that job.
You know, I come with technology, I come with knowledge.
So I was really excited Because I can see them with huge consciousness expansion.
So, those people will bring very positive transformation in China.
So, I'd like to see the Western world to embrace the changes in China, not just see China as a threat.
So, those younger generations, when they bring changes to China, and I'm sure they're going to bring much more positivity to the Western world as well.
So, we should not view them as a competing sort of interest, but more like brothers and sisters who actually can assist each other.
So that's the point I want to make.
Well, I think whether you're in Beijing or you're in Bradford in the UK or Brighton in the UK or Birmingham, Alabama, I think we all need a little bit of change these days, the way things are happening.
But you say that you were approached by people who told you they were hybrids in China and they remembered their past lives in other places.
Yeah, but again, hybrids were defined as, you know, how we define a hybrid.
Some of them may have some genetic makeups.
Some of them are more hybridized than others.
Some of them are very subtle, but some of them very much look like alien hybrids.
Just so obviously.
And these people, as you say, they're students, they're living, or some of them, or they're living ordinary lives doing ordinary things at the moment.
Yeah.
Ordinary people.
You don't even pay too much attention to them.
At least, you know, they come to you, say, oh, you know, I remember my name.
You know, I came from this place and that place.
So, yeah, I wouldn't know that.
But again, given that that was the UFO conference, of course, you would attract similar, like, say, like-minded persons.
So those people don't mind to come forward, tell you that.
But if you bump to them, you know, on streets or in supermarkets, they may not talk about this.
They may say, how's the weather like now in UK?
You know what I mean?
So look, you're just as, you know, my father was a police officer and he trained me to be analytical about things.
You work in the law.
When somebody comes up and tells you a story, you can look at them.
You can get a sense of whether they're telling you the truth.
And it sounds to me like you don't sound like you're a pushover for these things.
Sounds to me like when they told you these things, you believed them.
Well, of course, we need to use our discernment, right?
So how like everybody, when you work for a few years in a corporate world, you will have certain basically skill set to assess certain people or situational stories.
And even though I don't believe everything that they told me, but there are a lot of truths behind the scenes.
So I do believe a lot of claims are real.
But again, you know, China is not the only country that have a lot of hybrid beams.
So let's see what's going to happen for the years to come in China.
So will be very exciting, I guess.
Well, listen, thank you very much for having this conversation with me.
We're spanning an awful lot of miles, 12,000 miles.
Between you in Sydney and me here in London, it's a completely different time of day.
There were some sound issues, but I don't think anything too bad.
Fascinating to have a look into a world and a society and a way of looking at this phenomenon that we are mostly, most of us, not familiar with here in the West, and I think we need to be more.
So I found what you said very interesting.
And I hope my listener understands the reasons why you've had to be careful around some of the things that you said, Xiao.
Thank you very much for speaking with me.
Thank you so much for inviting me.
Such an honor.
Thank you, Howard.
Thanks, everyone, for listening to these forecasts.
What a fascinating guest.
Xiaoma in Sydney and the subject of UFOs in China.
And, you know, there is so much more.
I get the impression that we could know and that we need to know, but the difficulty is always getting information out.
But how fascinating.
It's a subject that you don't hear discussed that often.
Your thoughts about Xiaoma or any of the guests that I've had gratefully received, please go to my website, theunexplained.tv, and you can send me an email from there.
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