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Jan. 9, 2022 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:01:29
Edition 603 - Malcolm Robinson - An Astonishing Paranormal Case From Ireland
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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Hey, well look, I hope you had a great new year, or certainly an uneventful one if it wasn't great.
The weather has changed across the holidays, so I'm speaking to you at the moment in sunshine but very cold temperatures, about seven degrees Celsius today, dropping down, they're telling us to about minus five overnight.
So things are getting colder, but it is nice to see the sunshine.
I think when you see a little bit of brightness, it always lifts your spirits a bit.
And it's definitely done that for me today.
So who knows what the weather has in store before we can kiss goodbye to this winter and maybe look forward to something better in the spring.
Who knows?
Thank you very, very much for all of the emails that keep pouring in, many from new listeners all over the world.
Please, if you'd like to email me, I would love to hear from you.
Please tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
Email me through the website, theunexplained.tv, designed and created by Adam from Creative Hotspot in Liverpool.
Just a few people of the many who've been in touch and wherever you are, whoever you are, thank you for the emails.
Please know that I do get to see and read each and every one.
Sonny in Wolverhampton, thank you for listening and donating, Sonny.
Kind of you.
Sam, good to hear from you.
Scott in Ayrshire, Southwest Scotland.
Nice to hear from you, Scott.
Uber in Zurich, nice to hear from you, Uber.
Steve, who enjoyed, was one of quite a number of people who enjoyed Andrea Perrin on the show.
And the story, of course, behind the movie, The Conjuring.
So that was a very good edition that's getting some very good response, it seems.
Brent got in touch from Chino in California, 40 miles from Los Angeles.
Brent, nice to hear from you too.
And Chris, in a place that I used to live when I was at uni there, studying to be a journalist or trying to be.
Fairwater in Cardiff.
Nice to hear from you, Chris.
If you want to get in touch, you know how to do that.
I had a recent email from an anonymous emailer, and this person will know who I'm talking to when I use the word bluebells.
You were trying to get some details of a past guest.
If you can give me some more information, I'll try to help.
The problem is you're asking for one specific thing from 650 hours of material that I've recorded, and that's going to be very, very hard to find unless you can please give me some more information.
Thank you for that.
Guest on this edition, old friend of the show, Malcolm Robinson in Scotland, veteran investigator.
That's the sound of him popping up on Skype.
So we're just about to connect with him.
You see, all of this happens in absolutely real time.
So Malcolm Robinson will be telling us a really chilling tale from his new book, Please Leave Us Alone on this Edition.
Malcolm has been at this for more than 40 years and is one of our favorite guests here.
So he's the guest on this edition.
Don't forget, when you get in touch, as I always say, please tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
Your stories of how you're using the show are very helpful to me because they make it possible for me to plan and plot the direction of future travel.
And I know I'm getting a little bit behind with some things at the moment.
It's just because I'm not only planning the radio show, but I'm also planning the podcast now.
And that's a big ask.
It's almost like having a seven-day-a-week job.
But it doesn't feel that way when you love what you're doing.
But it is.
So forgive me if I've been a little slow on taking up some of the guest suggestions.
I am getting to them.
I've got a list.
And many of those people will appear on podcasts or indeed on the radio show upcoming, as they say.
All right.
Let's get to the guest on this edition, Malcolm Robinson in Scotland.
Malcolm, thank you for coming back on my show.
How are you doing?
I'm very well, Howard.
It's great to be back on your show.
And Happy New Year to you and all your lovely listeners.
Of course, a lot of my listeners in different parts of the world who listen to this show won't understand the difference between the way that we bring in the new year down here in the south of England and the way that you bring in the new year in Scotland.
They are very different.
I know the two converge in Liverpool, where I was brought up, where we do so-called first footing.
You know, there's somebody who stands at your door and they bring the new year in.
So we did that in Liverpool.
Down here in the south, they don't do that.
But, you know, New Year's a big deal there, isn't it?
Yes, it's a big deal in Scotland.
It's a big tradition, you know, Hogman A bringing in the bells, as we call it, at 12 midnight, buy a wee dram of whiskey.
And you look forward to your first food.
There's lots of parties going on.
It's a big, big thing in Scotland and always has been, more so probably, sadly, than Christmas itself, you know.
And Scotland has its own, you know, I don't know why we're talking about public holidays, but Scotland has some of its own public holidays as well.
I remember arriving to do a news training course at Radio Clyde in Glasgow when I was just a kid starting in the news business.
And I was on this one-week course with a lot of other people from up and down the UK.
And we turned on the radio and the guy said, good morning, it's Radio Clyde.
It's Fair Monday.
And we thought that Fair Monday was just something that Scottish people said to each other on a Monday.
Because it's a bank holiday in August, isn't it?
But anyway, we're not here to talk about public holidays.
Let's crack on with this.
One thing I want to ask you before we talk about the new book, the rash of UFO reports and sightings in Scotland continues.
I don't know whether it's just that your media varies more onto it, but I'm seeing these things in the papers like the Daily Record an awful lot now.
I think the most recent one was in Lanarkshire.
What is going on with UFO sightings and reports in Scotland?
Yeah, I mean, it's fair to say that the Scottish press are great at bringing forward some of these UFO reports to the Scottish public.
And that's fair play to them.
It's great that we have that.
We obviously have to ensure that these sightings are what we truly term unidentified.
The vast majority have natural explanations.
But there have been a few sightings which have puzzled not only myself but my colleagues at Strange Phenomena Investigations.
You know, these objects that's been reported by the Daily Record do not conform to any conventional type helicopters or aircraft of any description.
And it's great for me, however, because it keeps me on my toes.
We have to do the normal checks.
You know, we check with the airports, the police, the Met Office, the Ministry of Defence.
And it's like any given researcher the world over, you've got to find that rational explanation because, believe you, me, not everything seen in the skies, not only in Scotland but the world over, is not a genuine UFO for want of a better word.
But we're living in exciting times.
Obviously, we've had the disclosure by the American Navy and government about the Tic-Tac and the gimbal UFOs.
And so it's great that now the UFO subject is truly being propelled into the public domain.
And I guess that more and more people are sitting up and taking notice of that.
It's not the subject that was poo-pooed back in the day.
We're now getting honest to goodness reports.
But we're still trying to ascertain, Howard, what's going on here?
That's the big, big question, of course.
But you're dead right that it's all going mainstream.
Not only is this appearing more and more in the newspapers, but yesterday I was interviewing Sarah Crudis, the TV astrophysicist author, and all of the things that she does.
And she is doing, from a scientific perspective, a series on sky history about UFOs.
So slowly but surely, bit by bit, all of this is crossing over now, it seems.
Yes, it is.
I mean, I did a thing for Sky History.
Oh, I think, yes, you were on the series, weren't you?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's correct.
And I mean, it starts, I believe it's Tuesday, the 11th of January, edition 2, which is the one that I've seen a preview of, airs on the 18th.
So they're going to be, there are 10 of them, I think, Malcolm.
Yeah, that's right.
And I believe the programme that I deal with is coming out in February.
And that's to do with UFO settings over Scotland.
So do look out for that one.
And it's great that the media are giving people like myself the opportunity to tell it as it is.
Just get that information out to the viewing public and let them make up their own minds.
Having said that, as a researcher, it's always at the back of my mind, how are we going to be treated by the media, by the newspapers, by radio, by television?
Because once you say what you want to say, is it going to be misconstrued?
Is it going to be taken out of context?
But I'm pleased to say that that doesn't generally happen now.
We're given a fair airing, you know.
I mean, I've been slagged in the press now years, years ago.
And, you know, the Mickey Take, the usual Mickey Take that you get by the media, it's par for the course, I guess.
But having said that, in the past two or three years, it's not as bad as it used to be.
We're getting an honest airing by the media.
And people like your good self, Howard, you're doing a wonderful job, you know, giving opportunities to myself, my colleagues, and letting your lovely listeners just listen to what we have to say and make up their own mind.
It's great.
Well, for me, in totality, Malcolm, and it's only half the amount of time that you've been doing it all, but I've been at this for 18 years in one form or another.
So, you know, it's a long haul, but it doesn't feel like it because it feels like we're getting somewhere.
The show that you're in, it's UFO Conspiracies.
I'm just looking here at the news release for it.
It's the episode about Scotland, episode 5, Tuesday, the 8th of February, 9 p.m. on Sky History in the United Kingdom and in Europe.
You will find that.
I think it'll air differently in the United States if you're listening there.
And they talk on this, just to leave this behind now, but just to conclude with this.
They talk about the Falkirk Triangle and also this amazing case that you and I have discussed before on the show of a forestry worker, Robert Taylor, I think.
He was abducted and then found with strange marks from memory, this is on his legs.
A really weird case.
I don't know whether you get into that one on the show.
Yeah, I do mention that one, but it's, you know, it's like anything else.
It's time restraints.
You know, you can only say so much.
And I would have loved to have told that story in its entirety on the show, but I think it's only kind of little bits of the story.
But that said, you know, having said that, I mean, it's still sufficient enough to, I'm sure, allow the viewers an honest appraisal of how wonderful this Scottish case, which occurred to the forestry worker back in 1979.
I mean, it's still, it's the only case in the British Isles that has a police involvement, a police forensic department, etc., involved with the case.
And I just hope that the programme makers, I'm sure they will, but I hope they make a really good job of it.
It is our own, I think, you know, reading that story and reading the case of this man, it reminded me very much of Travis Walton, you know, the famous American abduction case.
There are similarities there, but this guy went through it by himself.
It wasn't as if it was him and a bunch of other people.
Yeah, that's right.
Poor Robert, you know, he encountered this object hovering above the forest floor and he was attacked by these two mine-like, sea-mine-like objects that pulled at his person, knocked him unconscious.
There were all these marks on the forest floor, you know, triangular, circular impressions in the grass.
His trousers, as you know, were tested by the forensic lab and they said that these trousers were ripped in an upwards manner.
They were not ripped by any forest debris, etc.
And that's why I had to write a book about it, the Deckman Woods UFO incident, because it contains all the police testimony, the witness testimony, and we look at all the various possibilities to account for that particular sighting.
Because with any of my books, Howard, I always, at the end of the book, put what it could have been, you know, give alternative explanations.
For even though I firmly, firmly, firmly believe that we're dealing with some form of non-human Intelligence.
It's always been with us.
Any of my books, I always give alternative explanations, as I have done with my current book, you know, Please Leave Us Alone.
As you have, and the alternative explanations and the other stories, the extra stories, are a great part of this book.
Let's move on to this.
What number book is this?
How many books have you written so far?
I think this is number 10.
Okay, that's...
It's called Please Leave Us Alone.
And one of the things that grabs you about this book first, I think, is the fact that this is all contemporary.
You know, this is not stuff that happened 40, 50 years ago.
Your first contact with the subject and subjects of this book was back in November 2011, yeah?
Yeah, that's correct.
It was back in November 2011 when I first heard from Patricia Hessian.
That's the mother, her daughter Amanda.
And they were informing me by email about the horrible events that was transpiring in their home in Roheny, a small town near Dublin in Ireland.
And it soon became apparent to me that here was a poor family going through these unfortunate events.
They've tried very, very hard to get some help from priests, from blessings, etc.
And nothing worked at all.
And so she contacted me, I offered my help, and she began to send me all the various information about what has been transpiring in the home.
They've been seeing UFOs, they've seen greys in various sizes throughout the years.
They've witnessed what they have described as reptilian beings, also very black beings in various sizes.
They've witnessed tall white beings and they've also seen many, many orbs, those spherical balls of light in various colours.
They've seen flashes of blue, green and red light in and outside their home.
And also they claim that they've been abducted since childhood.
So these events have not just happened just as they are doing just now, but right through the days, you know, right through the early days.
It's an unusual case for a ton of reasons, not only because we're talking about a mother and daughter affected by this and quite a lot of history to the case, but also it's the first case that I can recall.
You say in the book that Patricia, I think it was only Patricia, was given hypnotherapy, hypnoregression, and the therapist had to stop because it was too dangerous, I think.
Yeah, she wanted to go under hypnotherapy to see if any other evidence could come out to give her some explanations of what's been transpiring.
But they had to stop the session because she was getting too traumatized.
And so we don't truly know what actually happened.
You know, maybe there was some hidden subconscious recall ready to surface, but we don't know exactly what that transpired.
Okay, now the story of Patricia is interesting because it starts in America as she is born to a woman, I understand, of Romani heritage, a young woman, and is then adopted.
Is that so?
Yeah, that's right.
She was born to a very young gypsy girl in Worcester, Massachusetts on February 1st, 1966.
She was baptised by her birth mother, Barbara Nicholas, and her birth father, Paul Hoole, as Michelle Nicholas.
And she was placed into foster care.
She was adopted two years later, I think it was 1968, by John C. Hessian and his wife, Nora P. Hessian.
These were of Irish descent.
But she was always a very unusual child, Howard.
Right from the very start, her parents would tell her how she was found lying on the floor in her bedroom after her parents had placed her in her cot the night before.
They just couldn't figure out how she could get out of her cot as the frame was too high.
Her legs could not go over it and the rail was too high for her to reach, you know.
And I think there's also a story early on in the book about the then very, very young Patricia speaking in strange tongues in gibberish.
Yeah, I mean, that's idemic of various people who seem to have this, I wouldn't say it's an ability, but something takes them over and they speak in these foreign tongues, you know.
And that's quite alarming, you know, when parents of a child hear that, that can be very alarming and disturbing because they're wondering, well, where did they pick this up?
You know, I mean, Patricia's mother said that when Amanda was very young, she would notice Amanda looking upwards in full concentration and up into the ceiling, but nothing could be seen.
But yes, she was speaking all this gibberish.
And, you know, it was like something was trying to take her over.
Right.
Now, the events started in America.
We have to say that Patricia and Amanda moved to Dublin, didn't they, in more recent years?
Yes.
But the events started in America.
And you have an account quite early on in the book again of a family drive that is somehow blighted by strange lights in the sky and I think a period of missing time.
Yeah, that's right.
They were driving to a motel, I believe, and they became aware of some strange lights in the sky, which they were sure that wasn't satellites, it wasn't aircraft lights, it wasn't helicopter lights.
And they all became quite alarmed by this.
And when they went into the motel, the father, Patricia's father, heard some noises on the motel roof and he went outside to see what was going on, but he couldn't see anything.
And Patricia believes that from that night thereafter, she was abducted by these small grey beings.
And also experiences.
Now, this speaks to something that I'm hearing increasingly from people who are having experiences.
They seem to transcend different almost genres of paranormality, different forms of paranormality.
So sometimes you'll get people who are seeing ghosts who also have alien encounters, apparently, or CUFOs.
You know, there seems to be a lot of blending these days, and this is very much a story like that.
But it all seems to start with the shadow man, a shadow figure.
Quotes, I saw a dark figure of a man hunched down in the corner, staring right at me.
The figure was wearing a hat and a long coat.
Yeah, and whilst as a researcher, I had been aware of these stories of shadow people and hat men.
I hadn't really researched any cases personally myself.
So when Patricia and Amanda came forward with these tales, it was exciting for me because here they were telling me firsthand of these shadow people, these hatmen people.
And I found, much to my surprise, that it's something that's, you know, it's right across the world.
Many, many people the world over have seen this.
And I mean, this Hatman, it could be, some people may call it a demon.
He really has invaded the Hessians' lives.
He really has.
And this Hatman is not just a recent phenomenon, Howard.
You know, he's been seen for hundreds of years, thousands of people worldwide.
But we've got to ask ourselves, is he the real deal?
Or is he an illusion?
Are people suffering from some form of global psychosis?
But the Hatman is sometimes referred to as a grey man or shadow man.
He's described as wearing a wide-brimmed hat and wearing a long trench coat.
And in fact, in some encounters, the Hatman is described as wearing like a kind of cowboy hat or a fedora troby-like hat or an older top hat.
And he usually has seen with dark facial features or sometimes no features at all.
And some people claim that they see kind of red staring eyes.
In the main, he's quite tall.
And, you know, it's just a very, very bizarre thing to see.
And indeed, at the end of the book and at the end of this conversation, you have some other stories of shadow people, hat people told by various other people, which adds corroboration, I think, to it all.
So we'll do those.
But back to the story of Patricia and Amanda.
Now, Patricia's dad dies, doesn't he?
And they leave America to go to Ireland, to go back to Ireland.
That's correct, Jess.
And, you know, things, they don't ease there.
In fact, they intensify there.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, she said that when she moved to Ireland, she started to feel pressure on her body.
Her body was getting scratched.
Her face was getting scratched.
She did not feel that, you know, that she was in this house, Howard.
She didn't feel that it was good vibes at all.
She felt very bad vibes from the house that she stayed in.
And then she began to see apparitions of ghostly women.
She saw coloured lights.
And as we spoke about a moment ago, this hat man figure started to appear regularly in the family home as well.
And it was also like an intense rush of heat which pervaded their bodies.
I mean, it sounds like something out of a science fiction movie, you know.
And there was also the sounds of footsteps running up and down the stairs and also running along the floorboards of their bedroom as well.
So clearly, not only did things transpire when she stayed in Massachusetts as a young child, things are following her, you know, right to present day in Ireland.
But it was probably from 1989, as she said, that things really went off the scale.
That's when the visitations, the experiences with the paranormal really, really began to implode into the very fabric of their personality and being.
Now, here's a bit of synchronicity because as you were saying those words, I was looking at them here on my notes.
Isn't that funny?
I cut and pasted those words.
So let nobody say that such things don't happen because we know that they do.
I don't want to be indelicate about this, and we have to talk carefully around this, but there is a story of a sort of ghostly or paranormal sexual contact, isn't there?
Yeah, and it's, you know, it's one of these things, excuse me, that sadly some people experience.
And what I mean by that is she claims, and she's been very honest and upfront with me, Howard, about this.
You know, she didn't need to tell me this, but she claims that she feels on certain occasions that there's something interfering with her very body.
And I'm sure you know and your listeners know what I'm meaning by that.
And it's very sexual.
It's really upsetting.
And that has happened on several occasions.
She doesn't see anything, Howard.
She just feels this pressure on her body.
And I cannot imagine when I read that piece, and it's not a long piece in the book, but when I read that, I just stopped for a moment and thought how utterly alarming and disturbing something like that could be.
Obviously, we can't go into details here and we wouldn't want to, but, you know, utterly, utterly terrifying.
Yeah, it is.
You know, I've only dealt with one other case of that kind of nature.
That was a case in the outskirts of London where another unfortunate woman claimed that she was, you know, being sexually exploited by an unseen presence.
And that was the very, very first time that I'd ever encountered that.
I'd heard about it, I'd read about it.
But to see this poor, unfortunate woman in tears and relating her story.
But like any investigator, you don't almost have to, you know, you really have to find out, is she being honest?
Is she looking for notoriety?
Is she trying to get on the television, on the radio?
Is she looking for help?
Does she just want, just trying to make a nuisance of herself?
So we have to find out, is there a true story here?
Or is she just, you know, just looking for company?
And sadly, with some people, thankfully not all, it's just people very lonely and wanting attention.
But the lady down in England, in the outskirts of London, clearly was a lady who did have all this happen to her.
And now we have the situation with Patricia near Dublin, where she has the very, very same thing that's happening.
Now, there's a lot of demonic things that's been happening in the family home.
So this doesn't really surprise me.
I know it's a terrible thing to say.
It doesn't surprise me that this thing has been, you know, interfering with her, for want of a better word.
It's not nice.
It's certainly not nice.
But by God, it does happen to people.
What about the role of religion and perhaps the local priest in all of this?
I lived and worked for a while in Dublin.
I know Rahini, where they are.
I was in Rathvarnum.
And, you know, the Catholic Church, I mean, this is back into the 80s when I was there.
But, you know, it plays a very, very big role in people's lives.
And I'd often be driving along in my little VW Beetle and I'd drive past a country parish, through a country parish, and there would be a priest in a field there and he'd wave to the car, very much part of the fabric.
Did they try to involve the church in this?
There is a story in the book about them being visited by a phantom priest.
Yeah, that's true.
They had been visiting her mother who was in hospital, I believe.
She was very, very poorly.
And this priest came in and he sat down and, you know, he spoke to Patricia and her mother, who was lying in bed.
And he was very nice, very kind.
And then he went away.
And another priest came in and says, so Patricia said, oh, have we got two priests seeing us today?
How do you mean?
He says, well, we've just had a priest come to see myself and my mother.
And this other priest says, well, there's nobody passed me in the corridor.
And, you know, it was one long corridor and then straight downstairs.
She says, but you must have passed him.
He just left this room a moment ago.
He said, I can assure you, no priest has passed me.
And so we don't know who this phantom priest was.
You know, he was very solid looking.
And what we have to remember, and it's very true to say to yourself and your listeners, that Pat's house has been blessed by a number of priests, from Mormon ministers to even a druid, would you believe?
So they've prayed, they've blessed each room, they've sprinkled holy water, they've placed their hands on their heads of Patricia and Amanda, they've prayed with them.
The priests have spoken in Latin and blessed their heads and palms with their hands with the sign of the cross.
They've had all this, you know, by various priests, etc.
And still, still the tragic events are exploding into the family house, etc.
So it's very, very annoying.
It's not discussed in the book, I don't think.
They never considered leaving.
You know, they'd moved from America to Ireland.
Did they never consider perhaps going to another place where these things would not happen?
Yes, I mean, they have thought about it for sure, Howard.
But I think they are of the impression that if they move again, it's still going to follow them.
They think it's always going to be with them.
And for me as a researcher, it's very distressing because whilst we like to document all what's going on and get that out in book form or on radio shows like yourself, the main thing is, okay, there are two things here.
First of all, get the story out so people can understand what some people are going through.
The second thing is get rid of it.
Let's move this presence on and so that they get back to peace and normality.
And sadly, for all that I've tried and she's tried herself, these things are still transpiring.
Their health has suffered dramatically, you know, their nerves are shattered.
They've had to go to hospital for numerous things as well.
Well, I think you say at one point in the book that Amanda's health had suffered at one point to the stage where she was just not leaving the house.
Yeah, that's right.
And I mean, the thing is as well that their neighbours have experienced the same thing.
So it's not just like a standalone mother and daughter claiming these things.
Next-door neighbour has come into their home.
She has a friend, Beverly Brooks.
She has seen things in Patricia's home as well.
Indeed, when Patricia went to her friend's Beverly Brooks, she also saw this Hatman figure in Beverly Brooks' house as well.
And it's the coloured orbs, all these strange orbs that's been seen in not only just Patricia's house, but her friend's house as well.
And that's why it was so important to document the information from our neighbours and friends to back up the testimony because it helps and lets people understand that, hey, this is not a standalone thing, you know.
But yeah, I mean, it's also that the footsteps, the bed covers have been rippling and are rippling motion as well.
And they've said to me recently, you know, they're sensing evil in their house all the time.
I do say in the book, and I know it sounds daft, but I do say in the book that they've come to kind of accept it.
They've come to just get on with it.
You know, I know that sounds kind of bizarre, but they've got to the stage now, whilst, yes, it doesn't happen all the time now.
It used to happen on a regular occasion, but thankfully it's only maybe every third or fourth day now.
So maybe, just maybe, things are dwindling and maybe the paranormal effects that's been transpiring in the family home are now on their way out.
I certainly would like to think so anyway.
Malcolm, you investigated, we've talked about a few times, the Socky Poltergeist in Scotland, which is an astonishing story, very much on a par with other poltergeist cases like Enfield.
But what we learned from those is that quite often the phenomena are related to the people.
They Are somehow either generating them?
Well, there is certainly a portal for them in some way.
And it seems that this case is another one like that.
So, how are they able?
You say they've lived with it and they've learned to live with it.
How are you able to live with something that may well be centered around you?
Well, this is a thing, isn't it?
I mean, if it's centered around you as opposed to the house, let's be honest, it's not the house because it's followed her from Massachusetts when she was young to Raheny.
And so it's not the house.
It looks as if it is the people, i.e.
Patricia and Hessian.
The same applies to the wee girl in the Sokey case, Virginia Campbell.
It followed her from Donegal over to Sokey and Clackmannanshire.
So it seems that some people attracted, it's like a battery, for want of a better word, who seem to attract negative paranormal effects.
And sometimes, you know, mother and daughter, it could be husband and wife, they seem to attract this.
Now, why this is, it's certainly open to question.
You know, it's not as if they dabbled in the Ouija board or dabbled in the black arts or anything.
But indeed, they did use Ouija board, didn't they?
Because it brought them some kind of strange Aramaic language.
Well, yes, I do mention that in the book, but it's fair to say that that wasn't Patricia.
When she went to Beverly Brooks' house, they were doing an Auiji board session.
Patricia didn't really want to be part of that, but, you know, reluctantly she agreed.
And a lot of strange things happened when they used the Ouija board.
You know, not only were the orbs, etc., but she saw strange visions, people going through the walls, etc.
I mean, I remember in the book, I think it's Pat was lying in bed one night.
She noticed a bright white light coming out of her headboard, and it looked as though her arms and hands were being dissolved as they went through this light.
She was actually putting this light at her headboard.
She put her hand towards it and her hand dissolved through this light.
And on another occasion, when Patricia and her daughter Amanda were getting ready for bed, she saw thousands of small illuminating emerald green spirals started to pour over their bodies.
And it covered the whole of the bedroom, the ceiling, the walls, the floor, and even under their bed.
And surprisingly, Howard, they weren't frightened by this, just kind of more startled.
It was like, here is another thing that's happening in this house.
All these spirals, these green-coloured lights, etc.
And really, it does sound like it's a fictionalized story, but I can assure you, you know, this is the real deal here.
I don't know how, if you were setting to make it up, setting out to make it up, I don't know how you would fabricate this because there are so many threads and aspects to it.
Have they ever had any involvement with anybody professional or academic to investigate this?
I'm thinking of people like, you know, we both know Callum Cooper at Northampton University.
Have they thought of getting somebody like that involved?
Yeah, I mean, I think the next phase of this investigation will have to be with some professional body or some professional academic people who need to visit the family home and take it on board from there, even if they have to spend the night and just see what happens, because I'd prefer somebody of that nature to do this as opposed to kind of some paranormal groups.
Although that's not to say they don't have enough information to carry out a good investigation, but we need some proper academic people, maybe some scientists or somebody to go and visit the family and document the happenings there.
I think that's probably the next step for this investigation for sure.
And I would just also like to say, I mean, I'm just looking at some of my notes that I want to talk to you and your listeners about.
It's very, very important.
There was an occasion in the autumn of 2014.
The Amanda and Petitia were in their living room.
They were watching television.
They were having a cup of tea.
And suddenly, this picture, this holy picture of the divine mercy of Jesus was hopping about on top of the mantelpiece.
You never believe this.
I have got that right in front of me now.
That's another one of the pieces of the book that I cut and pasted.
That is absolutely.
That's amazing.
Sorry, I interrupted there, but this is from 2014.
Utterly astonishing, alarming, terrifying.
You pick a word.
Yeah, it's every one of those words.
You know, again, they're just having this cup of tea.
They're looking at the television.
They're not expecting anything.
They have this beautiful picture of the divine mercy of Jesus.
It started to vibrate.
It started to pop about on top of the mantelpiece.
And then it hovered out.
It came out in midair.
And it just fell flat right onto the carpet, on the floor.
And it's just unbelievable.
And I think, if memory serves me right, there was a loud kind of rumbling noise coming from inside the chimney.
And another heavy mirror was kind of thrown off the wall.
So it's just bizarre.
It really is.
Well, the way that you describe it, you say, and I quote, the picture then hovered in mid-air.
The lower part was still on the mantle above our fireplace.
Then it moved out flat with the picture of Christ's face facing the floor, but still in mid-air above the coffee table.
With that, we both heard a loud rumbling noise coming, as you said, from inside our chimney, at which point a very large and heavy mirror was thrown literally off the wall.
I mean, if that kind of thing happens to you in your home, 7 p.m. on a night in 2014 when you're just watching the TV, I don't know how you could react other than, you know, run down the road screaming.
Yeah, and it's also fair to say that I have asked the family to get a video recorder and just, you know, try and anything of that nature, quickly go to the video recorder or even your iPhone and try and record These things.
She has tried to do it, but sometimes the phone stops, you know, a phone doesn't work, etc.
Because, whilst it's great, it's a lovely story, it really did happen.
We still need visual, pictorial evidence of this phenomenon.
And even if we did, and I've said it on your show before, even if we did have evidence pictorially or video footage of the paranormal occurrences in this family home, would the sceptics of the world believe that?
Would they think it's all been made up on computer?
But it's very important.
I mean, sadly, I've not been able to get over to Ireland myself as yet, but that's certainly on the agenda for 2022.
And I'll certainly be going over with some friends and colleagues with the best of equipment.
We'll be spending the night in the family home.
I mean, Patricia sent me videos of these orbs.
I've seen this myself.
And I'm not a big fan of orbs, as I've said on your show before.
The vast majority, for me personally, are just dust molecules, water droplets in there, the flash illuminating the moisture.
But the videos Patricia sent me are absolutely astonishing.
They appear to go through her body.
They're blue in colour as well, you know.
And so, you know, it's evidence, but it's evidence to convince the skeptics.
That's debatable.
I interviewed the biographer of the late Father Malachi Martin.
I don't know if you were aware of his work, but he was the ultimate exorcist, a man who grappled with Satan on a regular basis.
He used to appear on the old Art Bell Coast-to-Coast AM shows in America a lot.
Sadly, he's no longer with us.
But one of the things that he used to do before investigations, they would always get the subject before any exorcism.
And I think before their investigations, they would always make sure that the subject was checked psychiatrically.
You know, I have to be delicate in the way that I say this, but have they ever considered that there may be something else going on and maybe they need to get checked in that way?
But I can't see how that could be the case because we're talking about two people here and, of course, the experiences of the neighbors.
Yes, I mean, that's a fair point.
It's a fair reflection of any given case when anybody encounters the wrath of events that this family has had to endure is that maybe it's a medical episode.
Maybe they're hallucinating.
Maybe it's some kind of trauma.
But I don't know how something could manifest so comprehensively.
Yeah, well, I mean, I did put that to the family, and sometimes you have to be very careful how you want things and say things, you know.
And because I also said to them, are you making this up just for money, monetary gain?
And I'll come to that later.
And obviously, the answer is no.
But as far as the medical episodes, they said, Malcolm, no, we don't, you know, sometimes we take some tablets just for our nerves.
But other than that, you know, we don't have any main problems.
Sadly, it's Amanda suffering from medical problems, but not of the mind, just of the body.
And but these are something that I don't want to discuss in the show.
It's all personal, but certainly not of the mind.
No, and I honestly believe, you know, having spoken with them and engaging with them on email and the telephone, that clearly it's not a medical episode that they're suffering from.
It's easy for sceptics to say that may well be the case.
And I always, always, always look at things like that with any given case, not just with the Hessians, you know, with any UFO case or Ghost or Porter Geist case, you have to ask the question, sorry to ask this, madam, but are you on any medication which may somehow make you misconstrue some things?
So even though I believe in all these things, I'm not so naive as to just accept them all the time.
We have to look out of the box, we have to look at medical episodes, but just to reiterate, no, I don't think it's that at all.
There's such a welter of evidence so honestly delivered in the book.
I couldn't, in all honesty and truth myself, say that, you know, these people are making this stuff up.
How could you?
You'd have to be, I think you'd have to be an author of the stature of Roald Dahl or somebody to be able to create a narrative that is so consistent.
You know, it's a big story.
It has a lot of aspects.
One of the aspects we haven't talked about are the truly weird dreams that they both have had, both Patricia and Amanda, including encounters with alien greys, encounters with other planets, all sorts of things happening in the dreams.
Yeah, that's correct.
And it makes you wonder, are they truly just dreams?
You know, we all dream, of course, or are they episodes where they've been taken and they think it's a dream, but it's not.
It's a real event that happened.
I mean, I've got some notes here.
I've picked out some bits and bobs that I want to speak to yourself and your listeners about.
I mean, again, we're looking at November 2020.
Patricia awoke from her sleep because she felt something crawling up her body beside her arm under the sheet.
Now, at first glance, she thought they were mice because, you know, she had field mice in the kitchen.
But she quickly grabbed one of these things and she saw a very small black being.
And his head was similar to the greys, but slightly more human in its facial expression.
So just to reiterate, she's woke up from her sleep.
She's felt things moving around her body.
She's grabbed one of these things and it's a small black being like a grey.
And, you know, it's quite distressing.
These things have been happening all the time.
Well, it sounds it.
You say in the book, if this is the same case, because I've got this in my notes as well, quotes, it was pure black and looked as though it was wearing some kind of armor.
Its body shape reminded me of an armadillo.
Yeah, that was another occasion as well.
That's right.
Yes.
And so she's had these experiences of not just the Hatman standing motionless in the corner of the room, you know, looking very menacely at the bed, but she's also had these grey beings pervade the family home, these small creatures.
Some of them are only about 15 centimeters in height.
And as you quite rightly described there, some of them look like the body is like some kind of armadillo scales, you know.
So when people look at the whole UFO subject, they always think about the greys, you know, these small grey beings with the large pear-shaped head, black kinky, almond-shaped eyes, as more consistent with the worldwide UFO abduction experiences.
Whereas in the Patricia's case, there's only a few of these small grey beings that's been seen.
But there's always this mixture of these other weird entities.
And that's why it's so baffling, you know.
And I just don't know what's going on here.
I really don't.
Also, when we look at these cases, cases of this kind historically, it's always interesting if there's an animal, maybe a domestic pet involved, because it is claimed that animals, cats and dogs particularly, are very sensitive to things that we perhaps can't see as plainly as they see and sense.
They had a dog called Blaze, and the dog also senses things.
I'm glad you brought that up, yes.
So they went into their bedroom, and Blaze, the dog, was staring intently at the corner and the ceiling, you know, just at the joint.
And he was staring there.
He started to bark, bark, bark at the ceiling, and nothing was there.
Not a thing was there.
And that's quite correct because animals do sense the paranormal more than human beings.
As we know, animals can hear and see a much different vibrationary spectrum and colour spectrum than human beings.
So clearly, the dog was picking up on something in the ceiling.
And it's not just happened once, however, it's happened many times over.
And it's been noticed by visitors to the family home.
What's the matter with your dog?
What's it barking at?
And so it kind of lends and gives a wee bit more credence to what the Hessians have been saying.
One of the quotes of the book, I'm just looking it out here, and I think this could almost be on the back cover or the front cover, and this is a quote from Patricia, I feel there is a sinister, dark force at play here, dwelling on keeping myself and my daughter housebound.
It really does sound like, although things, as you say, are getting easier for them, that they're hostages to it.
Yeah, I mean, and even though I said earlier that they're kind of getting used to it, they are, let's be honest, they are hostages to this.
Their quality of life is not like you or I. It's suffering all the time.
They're on edge all the time.
And whilst I said maybe if you did move house, I know we mentioned this earlier, I still honestly believe even if they moved house, it would still follow them.
So it really is, we've got to get something done here.
We have to get a true proper exorcism done here, even though they've tried all this with various priests, etc.
But like I said a moment ago, we need some academic people, top guys in the paranormal world, to really spend a few nights in the family home and see what they think, see what they suggest.
Because the bottom line is we clearly have got to eradicate what's going on with these Amanda and Patricia for sure.
I just don't want this to traverse right through 2022.
Can you imagine, Howard, if it happened to you or I?
You know, we'd better wit's end, we really would.
Here's another quote from the book.
I have been watched by military helicopters and had range rover-type vans which have been parked in the estate across my road directly in front view of my house.
In other words, it would appear from those words that somebody else at some maybe official level is aware of these things or interested in them.
Well, we can't but speculate.
I mean, that's in the book for sure.
And that's clearly what Patricia said to me, that she's noticed these strange cars out in the street outside her window.
And where we all live, we all know our street, we all know the normal cars.
I certainly do here.
You know, I look out my window and I see the normal cars.
But she's saying that these strange military cars and Jeeps have been parked outside her family home.
She's seen all these helicopters, etc.
But that just might be coincidence.
I'm not putting too much on that.
I mean, some people may, but it just could be just coincidence.
But what if it's not?
You know, what if there is this somebody from the military eagerly trying to find out a wee bit more about what's been going on?
Are they part and parcel of what's going on?
Are they, you know, or is it just pure coincidence?
But yes, yes, they certainly had seen strange helicopters, unmarked helicopters, and also cars, strange cars outside the family house for sure.
It's the first week of January.
We're recording this at the back end of the first week of January and people are going to hear it shortly after.
What kind of Christmas and New Year, as far as you're aware, did they have?
If they're living with this, can they have any enjoyment in their lives?
I've not spoken to them in the last week or so, so I couldn't really say how their Christmas New Year went.
I would like to think it went off okay without any paranormal disturbances.
But I keep in touch with them, however, on a regular basis.
But I'll find that out for sure in the next day or so, how things are.
But like I said before, it's not every day as it used to be, thank God.
It's every maybe fourth or fifth day that things just happen.
And in my last communication, I think it was December 30th, she claimed to have seen the Hatman standing in her room again.
The thing is, you know, with the Hatman, you've got the Greys, you've got these strange creatures, you've got the Hatman and shadow people, the footsteps.
This Hatman character, he doesn't interfere or come into the bed with her, for want of a better word.
He just stands aloof, alone at the corner of the room, which is frightening In its own self, but he doesn't make any moves or threats or anything like that.
But his whole demeanor and appearance is quite alarming nonetheless.
So, the way that we leave things with Patricia and Amanda here at the beginning of 2022, it's all to, if this was a movie, we would say at the end of it to be continued.
You want to do some more investigations, and we have to see, and they must be uneasy constantly, even though the phenomena appeared to have died down.
We know historically that sometimes things can have a bit of an upkick or an uptick.
So, they must be constantly in fear of this stuff really rebounding and starting again big time.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, that's the fear factor for sure.
You know, say, for instance, we managed to eradicate it and everything was quiet for several months.
It's always at the back of your mind.
Would something else transpire?
But I would have to say to Patricia and Amanda, we must not think along those lines.
2022 is a year, fingers crossed, we can eradicate what's going on, this family dwelling.
And we must say to Patricia and Amanda that if we manage to do this, and God help us, let's hope we do, that nothing else comes back.
We can only hope, Howard, we can only hope.
Well, I think there's a movie in this once they get out of it safely.
One of the great things, as you said yourself, was the fact that you get corroborating evidence from the neighbours.
We've talked about that, and also the skeptics view you put forward, which I think is good.
I mean, it's very hard to find, I would imagine, a skeptical viewpoint on all of these things if they're all happening at once.
But also, at the end of the book, you have a variety.
In fact, the best collection that I've seen in a long time of Hatman stories.
I'm not going to spoil it for listeners who are going to want to buy the book by telling them all.
But there are stories like you've got Joanne Cochran, who said I could see the shadow figure, the corner of my eye, moving closer and closer.
There's somebody called Aaron Flanagan, a shadow hat person who stands and stares.
Darren Ritzen, the South Shields poltergeist shadow man.
And Bill Rook.
This is one that I wanted to just talk about briefly, but the details are in the book.
And to get the full flavor of all of this, you've got to get the book.
Bill Rook says, I was attacked by a shadow person, seven feet tall.
And by the looks of it, he had a bit of an ongoing altercation with whatever it was that threw him around a bit.
Absolutely.
Bill Rook is a lovely man, a good friend of mine.
He lives in York in England.
And what he says, you can take to the bank.
Absolutely.
He's managed to take some surprisingly incredible photographs of worms and light beings and forms, etc.
But on one occasion, and this is mentioned in the book, of course, but on one occasion he was getting ready to go out to his fields where he takes all these incredible photographs when suddenly this shadow being, the seven foot tall, and it was just like the contours of a human body, the head, the shoulders, the body, the legs, just moved, floated across the field and came right up to him in his face and actually pushed.
He could actually feel a physical force being pushed against his body, so much so that his glasses were thrown off his head.
And he managed to get a photograph, which I use in the book, of this shadow person.
You can actually see the shadow contours of the head and shoulders on the ground.
And he had an argument with it, didn't he?
He did indeed, Jesse.
He did, he did.
Because he's just one of these people who can interact.
I know it sounds bizarre for any sceptics out there, but some people can interact and talk to these beings and get communication back.
It sounds preposterous, but believe you, me, it does happen.
And Bill had this dialogue with this creature saying, you know, why are you doing this?
What do you want from me?
And he never got a satisfactory explanation.
And he said, I mean, I could tell, here's another story.
Just now we're on the cuspy Bill Rook.
He was walking out his house in York, ready to go to his fields to take some more of these photographs.
And then suddenly, and this does sound bizarre, and my apologies if it does sound too bizarre, but this is what I said.
He walks out his door and suddenly he was encased in like a chimney, a red brick chimney.
And he looked up and it went away up into the sky.
And he went, what the hell is happening here?
And he could hear the strains of Coronation Street coming from his television in the living room.
He was walking out the door.
And he looked again and bang, it was just totally disappeared, you know.
Bill Rook is bringing out his own book on all his own personal experiences later this year.
So that's a name that yourself and your listeners will be hearing, hopefully, big style in 2022.
Alien Bill Rook, for sure.
What a character.
But this book of yours has so many aspects.
That is just one of them.
And the story of Patricia and Amanda, very compelling.
Wonderfully put together.
One quick question at the end of all of this.
You've got some wonderfully clear and marvelously illustrative photographs and illustrations.
How did you get the photographs?
Yeah, the photographs, obviously, of the Divine Mercy picture of Jesus.
All these photographs were sent to me, obviously, by Patricia herself.
The drawings of these little creatures and the Hatman was done by Patricia as well, because I said, look, can you draw what you've been seeing?
It's very, very important to illustrate what you've been seeing as we have no photographs of the hat man.
Could you maybe do a drawing of exactly how he looks, exactly how you see him in your bedroom?
And she was very kind enough to send them over to me, Howard, and obviously we used them in the book.
And it allows the readers just to visually see what the Hessians have been seeing over the course of several years.
Just finally, very finally, you talk to and about a woman called Sharon Cooper, who describes herself as the most haunted woman in England.
That's quite a claim.
It is.
And once anybody reads the book and her experience, you'll clearly see why That is such a big claim.
She's had so many traumatic experiences herself, you know, throughout her life.
And I do feel sorry for all these people, however, because being involved in paranormal research, I love it.
I absolutely love it.
It's great for me.
But by the same token, I feel so very strongly for the people who have to go through all these experiences.
As I said earlier, my main thing is to not only document these things for people like yourself in the world, but to try my very, very best to see if there's any way possible we can help these people.
And be it through, you know, through the church or anything else.
But we really need to help these people.
It's okay talking about it, but it's the people themselves.
They need to help.
And, you know, this phenomenon or these phenomena need to be better understood.
And that's why we both agree that maybe academics need to get involved in doing a systematic, you know, systematic period of research, certainly with Patricia and Amanda.
What a story, though, Malcolm, and beautifully told in the book.
This is another one of your great books.
It's called Please Leave Us Alone.
And I guess it's out now through Amazon and various other places.
Yeah, that's correct.
It's available on Amazon.
And as I say, it portrays the whole story of what this family has had to endure.
So what else are you planning for 2022?
Any other books coming out?
Yes.
My latest book is with my publisher at the moment.
And it's the A70 UFO incident.
And it concerns one of Scotland's biggest UFO cases.
I have written about it before in a previous book, but this one has been updated.
There's new transcribed audio interviews, everything, a lot of new stuff in this.
And that will be coming out later this year, the A70 UFO abduction.
Two men from Edinburgh who encountered a UFO on the A70 between Edinburgh and Tartbrag's big, big case.
Well, we've spoken before, and my psychic abilities are not very good.
But I know that we will speak again.
I think I can predict that fairly certainly.
Malcolm, thank you for giving me time.
What an astonishing book.
Thank you very much, Howard.
And I wish you and your listeners all the very best for 2022.
Keep doing what you're doing.
It's a strange world out there, and it's getting a lot, lot stranger for sure.
Malcolm Robinson and another amazing story from him.
More great guests in the pipeline as we trundle through 2022 here on The Unexplained.
Please do get in touch by email with guest suggestions, your thoughts on the show, whatever you want to do.
Always good to hear from you.
Go to the website theunexplained.tv and you can email through there.
As I say, we have more terrific guests coming up.
So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained Online.
And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm.
And above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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