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Dec. 8, 2021 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes

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Edition 596 - Jon Sumple

Jon Sumple on his new documentary "Extraordinary - The Revelations" We talk about the various ideas about what aliens - if they are already among us - might want with us - and explore what the possible "end game" might be...

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	Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast.
	My name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
	Thank you very much for being part of my show and indeed part of my life.
	So many regular listeners getting in touch and so many people who are just discovering the show.
	And like I always say, I keep hearing from people who've been listening for years and are now telling me for the first time that they're there.
	It gives me a nice, big, warm feeling when they do that.
	Now, I hope your preparations for the festive period, if you're celebrating it, are good.
	I must admit, I tend not to think about it particularly.
	I don't know, for me, it makes me sound like the Grinch, really, but Christmas is kind of a day that comes and goes in many, many ways.
	I have this memory of my first Christmas that I spent in London, and I was working because I was young and needed the experience.
	So I was doing overnight national news on independent radio news out of London.
	And I have one memory that I can share with you at this Christmas time, because it stays with me, and I guess it'll be with me to my dying day, of driving in on Christmas Eve, actually no, on Christmas Day itself, of driving into London when you could, on Christmas Day, and pausing at the traffic lights near the big Trafalgar Square Christmas tree full of lights, and looking round me in my little VW Beetle car.
	I had a VW Beetle that was a couple of decades old by that point, but was trusty and my friend in many ways, took me everywhere.
	And I paused in the darkness, in the crispy cold, and just looked around me.
	There was not another soul.
	There were some neon lights on buildings.
	They were all locked up.
	And I just thought how wonderful London looked at that point.
	And because it was Christmas night and I was about to do a big night shift, only I was seeing that.
	And that was a very special memory.
	Of course, we didn't have, you know, if it had been this era, I'd have found a place to park and I'd have got out my camera and taken snaps.
	But perhaps it's better in some ways that the memory of that is all in my head.
	But that's one memory of Christmas, long ago, that I will always have and always comes up at this time of year.
	Anyway, that's enough of that.
	What is going to be on this edition of The Unexplained, you want to know?
	Quite reasonably, I would say.
	John Sumple will be here.
	He's made a brand new documentary about the alien contact dilemma.
	What it might mean.
	If they're here, what are they doing with us?
	And what might be the end game?
	It's explored in this documentary, Extraordinary The Revelations, by John Sumple, which is out now.
	We'll tell you how during the conversation.
	This is a slightly longer version of what you will have heard on the radio, or may have heard on the radio very recently.
	John Sumple on this edition of The Unexplained.
	Don't forget, when you get in touch with me, please tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
	And if your email to me through the website, theunexplained.tv, designed and created by Adam, if that email requires a response, please tell me and I will make sure that it gets one.
	And guest suggestions at the moment gratefully received.
	I'm still booking the podcasts by myself, which is somewhat pressured.
	I'm not good at doing the actual process of...
	You know, I'm good at having the ideas, I think, but I'm lousy at actually getting in touch and writing the emails and batting them forth and filling it in the diary.
	You know, it's too organized for me.
	That's, you know, I like doing the conversations.
	That's a whole other issue.
	So that's basically where I am at the moment as the rain patters on my window as I record this.
	So let's get to the guest on this edition, an extended version of my radio conversation with John Sumpel about our interaction, if they're here, with aliens.
	There is a new documentary called Extraordinary The Revelation about the UFO field that particularly grabbed my attention.
	In fact, I've just this minute finished watching it.
	And my personal thought about it is that if you're just getting into this topic, if it is something that maybe I've piqued your interest on over these years of doing this show, well, that's great.
	It will be a great introducer and method of bringing you up to date with it all, I think.
	So let's talk to the person behind this documentary, John Sumple in the U.S. Do you agree with what I said or not?
	I'm 100% in agreement.
	That's a good way to introduce it.
	And, you know, things in this field, it seems to me, and I'm not just talking about that which is happening in Washington, because that is confused at the moment, but things in this field seem to be moving at a tremendous pace at the moment, don't they?
	I think so.
	And it's one of the things that we do address in the film, and that is the whole idea that the conversation has changed from UFOs to UAPs.
	There seems to be more of an emphasis on technology versus sentient beings, and this is coming from the government and the military.
	So something's changed over the last several years, not just the release from the New York Times about ATIP, but there's more and more awareness and more and more focus coming from the military in all things related to ufology.
	And do you think, John, and we can only speculate about this, I guess, that the principal reason for that is that the public have now more access to information than they ever had, and they're asking questions and won't be fobbed off anymore.
	Yeah, and it's part of it, too, is that because of the amount of information that is now available to us, whether it's articles that are being written, photos that are being shared, videos that are being shared, we now have access to this information in ways that we've never had before.
	And we've gotten to the point where the public needs something shocking to really pique their interest.
	They're ready.
	They're used to seeing these things.
	So I find it interesting that when we have conversations or share things with people who are, I would consider relatively new to the field of ufology.
	And they're like, oh, yeah, I've seen that before.
	I've seen something like that before.
	Or yeah, do you have anything else.
	So where 20 years ago people would be like, wow, that's amazing.
	Now, because there's so much exposure to these type of things, people need more.
	So the message there is that there's a relative acceptance to the existence or potential existence of UFOs.
	And that, of course, being backed up by recent opinion polls, there have been a couple, I think, this year that show gradually and inexorably the number of people who believe that there is something beyond what we see on this planet is increasing year on year.
	Well, it's not just what people are seeing.
	I think people are believing more and more and willing to talk about abduction experiences in ways that they never have before.
	And I think part of that is that as more and more information comes out, people realize that they're not alone.
	And that's one thing that's happened through the release of our films is that we've been contacted by thousands of people saying, thank you so much for making these films because I now realize that, you know, there's nothing wrong with me.
	There's other people who've had experiences just like me.
	I had two emails just within the last few weeks from people who watched the second film in the series, and their comments were, it was like watching my life.
	You know, everything that I was seeing on screen was a replication of what had happened to me.
	So thank you so much for doing this.
	This helps me better understand that I'm not alone in what's happening to me.
	And of course, a lot of people who had those experiences, I've spoken to many of them here.
	Some of them kept it all quiet for years, were felt that they were unable to talk about it because of the possibility of ridicule or maybe even risk to themselves.
	If they reached out to anybody, they might have reached out to somebody in one of the support groups or perhaps a fellow sufferer that they might have met, a fellow experiencer that they might have met.
	But now, of course, all of these people are joined together by the World Wide Web.
	So that makes a difference.
	It does.
	And I think that what we've seen too, both in face-to-face conversations, emails that we've received, and even comments that we've received, direct messages that we've received, where people are saying, I finally feel like I can talk about what happened to me.
	Not necessarily say they want to talk to us, but the request is, where do I go?
	Who should I talk to?
	And what I find most interesting in that is that there's a community emerging here where people are more willing now than ever to share their experiences and have a better understanding of what's happening to them, first of all.
	But this collective information then starts to seep into the news media and into conversations in a way that it never has before.
	So we're starting to see, I think, a shift in awareness and understanding and hopefully compassion toward people who've been through something that, in most cases, is traumatic.
	Bring me up to speed with the documentaries you've done so far.
	Why did you do this?
	Well, long story short is I was asked to work on a, as the camera person for a roadshow type of thing, doing a documentary in the southwest of the United States at all these UFO hotspots.
	And that morphed into an opportunity to do a film on Stan Romanek's story.
	And that turned into, instead of being behind the camera, directing the opportunity to direct the project.
	And if you were to ask me 10 years ago, 12 years ago, if I would ever do documentaries on this subject matter, I would have said probably not.
	And that's not because I don't believe in it or that I don't have an interest in it.
	It's just that I never saw that as a pathway.
	But once that door opened and we made that first film, they were loosely based trilogy that takes you on a journey from the individual person who's seeing lights in the sky, having abduction experience, being involved in hybridization programs and having hybrid children and seeing those hybrid children.
	That was the story within the first film.
	Second film went deeper into the hybrid children and hybridization programs story and focused on women who had had unexplained pregnancies that terminated without any signs of miscarriage after three months and their responses to what happened to them and the exposure to abductions and exposure to the eventually seeing children, the hybrid children that they would say was theirs down the road.
	So that film became something that was more about empathy and compassion and understanding versus just the phenomena.
	So what I've seen as my personal journey over the course of the three films is that this is about the human experience more so than it is about ufology or ETs or, you know, what's it's it's become part of our culture, a part of our existence.
	And the fact that more and more people are sharing it means that there's more and more opportunities for learning and awareness and compassion.
	You've got a lot of people involved in this current documentary, including David Jacobs, who's a luminary in this field, Mary Rodwell, of course, who is British.
	So is Nick Pope.
	He's involved in it too.
	And George Newri from Coast to Coast AM.
	So, you know, you managed to get hold of some pretty big names.
	Well, we're fortunate that we have one of our producing partners is Lori Wagner, and she has tremendous connections to the field.
	And as we started dabbling in this really 12 years ago, we had limited exposure to people.
	But over the last 10 years, we've built up a, I guess you could say, a directory of people that we can reach out to, have spent time talking with people on the phone, at conferences, and building a level of trust.
	And then the films that we've made, people saying that what we're doing is serving the story or serving an individual versus doing something for a dramatic effect or to advance our own agenda.
	We're just storytellers looking for good stories.
	I think it might be a good idea to hear just a little tiny bit of the beginning of the documentary.
	And you can talk to me about this because it is a really powerful start to the whole thing, which impressed me greatly.
	So let's just hear that.
	What is the end game?
	It is integration, seamless integration into society.
	The hybrids are integrating into society.
	They look like us, they sound like us, they dress like us, they are us in every way except they can control us.
	That is a threat beyond anything that the human race has yet to face.
	And for me, the evidence is very strong in the words of our own government officials and our own military personnel.
	The thing that I've studied more than anything else are military reports of UFOs.
	I've studied them a lot.
	There's an overabundance of declassified military literature describing events that should never have happened, that don't make any sense.
	It's a pretty powerful start, if I might say so, John.
	I mean, you really take people into the heart of it very, very early.
	I mean, you do not mess about with this.
	That is heavy stuff to hit people who may be new to the subject with.
	And it was one of those moments that, you know, whether it's a book, whatever you want, when you're creating something, you want to grab them by the lapels right off the bat.
	And I think that we specifically looked for content that would pull people in.
	And it's a very complex story that we tell over the course of this film, and there's a lot of information.
	The number one thing that we've heard from audience members who've screened the film and different individuals who've had pre-advanced screeners to look at it is that it's a very robust film with a lot of information that really warrants multiple viewings because of the subject matter that's covered.
	There's a lot of opportunities to stop and think or go down rabbit holes.
	And that's what we want to encourage people to do.
	The intent of this film is not to answer the questions, but to encourage people to ask more questions, do more research, and come to a conclusion that's based on their personal beliefs or their understanding or what they uncover during their journey of discovery.
	Of course, John, many people might believe, I think there was probably when I was younger a time when I believed that all of this began in 1947 with Roswell and a few things that may have preceded it, but certainly it was a modern day phenomenon.
	And your starting point is that all of this goes back to, well, in the United States, 16, what is now the United States, 1639, three people seeing a light in the sky in Massachusetts and claims that three people had been transported.
	I think it's important that we remind people that this phenomenon, these phenomena, have a history much longer than you might assume.
	And that was one of the reasons why we spend the first five or so minutes of the film after the opening credits to give some perspective.
	And the main thing there, again, we'll go back to the human experience, is that people of going back 40,000 years, because that's kind of our starting point with some of the cave drawings in Australia of the Juan China, what are those images?
	And why do they look so different from other cave paintings of that era?
	And why do the different portrayals seem, you know, the big eyes, the big heads, what is the purpose of that?
	So is that to say that they are aliens?
	We don't know.
	And that's the same that you can say for all of these things.
	But the context that we really want people to understand there is that people of those eras, you know, we can't use our common, we can't use our current day perspective when we're thinking about how people processed information 40,000 years ago, 10,000 years ago, 1,000 years ago, or even 500 years ago, or even 100 years ago, because their perspective was very different.
	So when you think about, you know, extraterrestrials and spaceships and unidentified flying objects and lights in the sky, that's not what they would have called them.
	They wouldn't have had context for it.
	They would have seen things.
	They would have documented things just for what they were.
	They would not have had an understanding of what the cosmos was.
	We do.
	They did not in that timeframe.
	So we need to, whenever we're looking at these things, try to put ourselves in the mindset of the individuals who captured these images on cave paintings, in paintings, on drawings, in verse.
	So there's a lot of different storytelling that's happened over the course of the last several millennia that gives us insight that something was potentially happening where there were visitors from somewhere else.
	And when you look back at these cultures, these ancient cultures, they had a strong belief in the seasons and in what the sky was telling them and a huge relationship with nature and the constellations in a way that we don't have today, that they're not guiding principles for us in the ways that they were then.
	So there's a very good chance that there was some sort of connection to what we would call the sky people.
	Indeed.
	You also talk about the Aborigines, their cave paintings.
	There are many other examples of these things.
	But you're very honest and upfront about one thing.
	And I was very appreciative of this.
	You say that a lot of people will be calling for proof.
	They want proof.
	They want proof that what is depicted in the cave paintings is what some people interpret it to be.
	And you say that it is not possible to provide that proof.
	You have to accept it, as I think you've just told me, in the context in which these things were done.
	Right.
	And it's interpretation.
	A lot of it has to do with, you know, what you see when you look at something and how you interpret it.
	And then there's the individual mindset.
	Someone who has more of a scientific approach to something, they need empirical evidence.
	They want facts.
	They need to see something proved in order for them to go down the rabbit hole or take the next step in the discovery journey.
	So we 100% believe that.
	And we know that a film like this is not for everybody.
	We know that there are people out there who are having more of a scientific mindset or more skeptical are going to trash this film.
	And you know what?
	That's okay.
	That's their prerogative.
	But there are other people who, when they see A film like this, they're going to feel something and they're going to sense something, and something's going to resonate with them where they're going to think this is something that I have either had experiences with or that resonates with me in a way that I want to learn more about it.
	So, that's really what our long-term objective is in making these films is to stimulate conversation, stimulate asking the question, what if this is all true?
	John Sumpel in the United States is here.
	We are talking about his new documentary, which is making a certain amount of waves around the world from what I see on its website, Extraordinary the Revelations.
	And the interesting stuff here, the real meat of this documentary, John, I think, is the talk about the integration of us with aliens.
	And the thought endorsed by many guests, I mean, you've got a ton of guests on here, as we said, you know, David Jacobs, Timothy Alberino, Mary Rodwell, Nick Pope, George Nouri, and many, many more.
	The thought endorsed or entertained by a lot of those people is that we may have been influenced, let's put it that way, by something not from here for a very, very long time, at a very deep level.
	No, and it's something that we found very interesting in going through this process was that we had very different viewpoints that we were uncovering during our research.
	And the three that kind of percolated to the top were the ascension narrative, the colonization narrative, and the biblical narrative.
	And they all believe in the existence of lights in the sky, sentient beings operating those craft, abduction phenomena, hybridization programs, and hybrid beings.
	So they all believe in that.
	They all believe that that is indeed happening.
	But their endgames, depending on who you talk to, are very, very different.
	So we talk with Dr. Jacobs about the colonization side.
	We talk with Mary Rodwell about the ascension.
	And we talk with Timothy Alberino and L.A. Marzulli in regards to the biblical narrative.
	And what is interesting about this is that they all believe in the same thing, the same phenomena is happening, but they are so convicted, so convicted in their beliefs of what the outcome or the endgame is going to be.
	And you can't argue with them.
	So we intentionally wanted to create this segment in the film, which is the middle of the film, about 45 minutes of the film, is in regards to these three narratives to show people that you can be passionate about a belief system, even if you all believe in the same outcome.
	So it's no different than somebody who has political views or religious views or, you know, whatever your viewpoints might be.
	You could all be part of the same family, but have different viewpoints.
	You could all be part of the same country, but have different viewpoints.
	You can be supportive of the issues that are in front of you on a daily basis, but sit next to somebody who has a completely different viewpoint on a different subject matter.
	So we're trying to draw a little bit of attention to the fact that it's okay to have a difference of opinion.
	Find one that resonates with you and do the research.
	So our hope is that people will watch this film.
	And we target our films primarily to the center of the bell curve, not looking to pander to the fringes in any way.
	We want to encourage and stimulate conversation.
	And we're hoping that people will see this film and have an aha moment that one of these paradigms resonates more clearly than the others.
	And they may begin to do a little bit more research and follow up on some of the things that they learn in the film.
	And as you say, there are three interpretations of the possible end game, but they're interpretations of the same thing.
	And that is the thing that the viewer, I think, is going to most keenly take home.
	Right.
	We think, and based on the experiences that we've had and the individuals that we've talked to, and we are most interested in having conversations with people who may not have made up their mind or may not have spent a lot of time thinking about this subject matter.
	But when they're sitting down in front of something that presents them with this type of information, what resonates with them?
	What resonates most with them?
	And I would say that most people, I would say a wide majority of the people that we've talked to identify more with the ascension narrative because it's positive.
	The other two, not so positive.
	There is not a lot of people are going to want to say like, yeah, I'm looking forward to the world being colonized by extraterrestrials.
	And that is what David Jacobs postulates in his research that he's been doing over the last 30, 40 years.
	So it is something that we think will give you pause to thought a little bit more about, well, which one is it?
	Is one more believable than the other?
	Or is it possible that it's a combination of all three?
	And I think it probably is a little bit of everything.
	Quote from the documentary, these beings, quotes, are transforming us.
	Question is, are they trying to replace us via hybrids?
	Are they trying to meld with us and make us something different?
	And is the purpose of that to save us from what the power doing this knows is ultimately our own destruction, which we are facilitating unless we're helped not to?
	Well, that's a big part of what Dr. Jacobs' research has been is into the colonization paradigm and what does that mean?
	And based on the regressions that he's done over the decades and the information that he's pulled from that is that there is a hybrid program going on.
	It's not just off planet.
	It is happening on planet.
	They look like us, they sound like us, they move like us.
	The biggest difference is that they can control us and we can't control them.
	And that is a big cornerstone of what Dr. Jacobs talks about is that he has come to the conclusion is that there is an infiltration.
	And he believes that the outcome is not going to be positive for humanity.
	Now, does that mean that it's going to be an integration?
	Does that mean it's going to be a replacement?
	That, I think, is all of this is an unknown.
	And we have to be brutally frank and honest as filmmakers and say that we know what we know, we can report on what we know, we can tell stories on what we know, and the rest is conjecture.
	Until there's positive proof, until there is information that's in front of you that says, yes, this is the pathway, this narrative is the right narrative, we don't know.
	And what we think is important to do is to have the conversations.
	And again, ask that one question.
	What if this is all true?
	What does that mean?
	What does it mean to humanity?
	What does it mean for the future of the planet?
	What does it mean when we contemplate why we're here and where do we go when we die?
	Those are all very interesting subjects to talk about when you're sitting around with a group of people who have open minds and want to have a conversation about why we're here.
	If the doomsday scenario is that they are here to assimilate us, to take us over, to transform us, perhaps that process is already underway.
	There are many who think it is.
	If that is the case, then presumably those who we feel in governments and other high-up institutions are aware of this, will know that this is happening.
	I wonder if you have any thoughts, perhaps, on if that is the end game of all of this.
	And we don't know.
	There are other possibilities that we will discuss and you have discussed very well in the documentary.
	But if that is the end game and there are people who know about that, what part are they playing in it?
	Well, the people that we've spoken to over the course of the last several years in preparation for the last two films, their insight has been that it's less that elected officials know and more that the military knows.
	So, and does it go beyond that?
	Is there the shadow government?
	Is there a controlling cabal?
	Those are all possibilities and things that are talked about from the nefarious perspective all the time.
	So that's, again, it is the question.
	What does that mean?
	And that's part of, you know, as we go through this process of disclosure and the inevitable announcement that something indeed has been happening and there has been, you know, maybe not necessarily integration for the purposes of takeover, but integration of technology, of bringing their technology to Earth and having it be something that serves our needs.
	That's the big question is, well, if you're making this announcement now, 70, 80, 90 years later, however long it takes, and what does that mean to all the ridicule and all the naysaying and all the debunking that you had done for those previous decades?
	What happens to the individuals who have been violated and vilified?
	Vilified, yeah, and ridiculed and made to feel even worse.
	And that's one of the big things that we talked about in the second film was when somebody has a traumatic experience, if it's not in the field of ufology and abductions, if somebody has a death in the family or goes through cancer or goes through a divorce or loses a child, we're there for them.
	Just put our arm around them, hug them.
	We're here for you.
	We're here to talk to you.
	We're here to support you in any way you need.
	And we do that even if we haven't had the experience ourselves.
	But when it comes to this, and someone builds up the courage to confide in you and say, I've had this experience.
	I don't know what it is.
	I don't completely understand it, but I'd like to talk about it.
	And if you kind of like, well, that's crazy, you're traumatizing the person all over again.
	And then they're going to wonder, who do I talk to?
	Who do I embrace with this?
	And that's a big part of, I think, what we're going through is the emotional side of this.
	And what does that mean if there is an agenda at a higher level and a controlling group that they're not taking into consideration the emotional impact over the decades for the people who've been through this?
	That's disturbing.
	It's very disturbing to people.
	For reasons of their own, they don't care, I think.
	We'll get into that in the third part of our discussion, I think.
	The so-called cover-up, the ways that people may have been deceived, as you say in the documentary over the years.
	You speak to a fascinating person.
	Now, most of these people I've spoken to over the years, they tend to rotate, as you know, around most of the shows.
	David Jacobs and Mary Rodwell, people like that.
	Nick Pope, who's a good friend.
	They turn up on many different shows.
	Somebody I haven't seen that much, you have in this documentary.
	This is a woman called Viviane Chauvet.
	She believes that she is a hybrid.
	Talk to me about her.
	Well, when we were working on the second film, the seating, we were interested in having conversations with people who were hybrids.
	And given the context of the film and the hour and 45-minute window that we wanted to tell the story in, we really couldn't give the individual or individuals the time allotted to have that conversation.
	So we felt it was in the best interest to kind of move it into this third film.
	And we had talked with several people who claimed to be hybrids.
	And the one reason why we chose Vivian is we spent hours on the phone with her.
	We did a couple of interviews with her.
	And the one thing, and it's interesting you bring it up too, because this is something that some people ask us all the time.
	It's like, well, did you do blood work to determine that she was a hybrid?
	And I guess my response to that initially is, I'm not out to do gotchas.
	We're out to share stories.
	But we have to say, look, I've got a lot of skeptical people who, for various reasons that I totally understand, take a view on these things.
	If you see Vivian Chauvette, you will see nothing out of place, unusual, or extraordinary about her.
	The only extraordinary thing is the story that she tells and the conviction with which she tells it.
	That's one of the things that I would say, that I would caution listeners, is that on the surface, watching a film or reading an interview or watching a clip on YouTube, and you see something for a minute or two and you draw a conclusion based on that.
	I understand why you would do that.
	I completely understand because it's just the information that's presented.
	And then there's all the questions that pop into your head about, well, what about this and what about that?
	When you sit down and spend the amount of time that we have with the individuals that we've done our interviews with, you get to see them in their space.
	You get to see how they process information.
	You get to see how they express themselves.
	In the case of Vivian, one of the things that I would say is very different about her is when you're having a conversation with her and she's talking as Vivian, as an earthbound being, she has a way of delivering information and talking and speaking and engaging.
	But when she starts to channel the information from, and it happens in mid-conversation, it's not like she says, I'm going to go into this state and get this, gather this information.
	That's not how it happens with her.
	You'll be in the middle of a conversation with her.
	Then all of a sudden, she'll start speaking in a way that is very logical and she uses her hands.
	So whenever she starts moving her hands, I'm very much aware that she's getting information and sharing information.
	So it's not a matter, I think, of suspending your belief as much as it is about encouraging your curiosity.
	So is it factual?
	Do we have evidence that these people who claim to be hybrids are hybrids, indeed hybrids?
	We don't.
	We personally, in the film making process that we've gone through, don't have like this evidence we can say is like, yeah, there's this clear cut evidence.
	She has a craft in her backyard.
	She's got, you know, strange DNA strand.
	We don't we didn't explore it because that's not what we're out to do.
	We're not out to prove anything.
	We're out to encourage conversation.
	Don't you think that you would have I'm sorry to jump in, but don't you think that you would have had international headlines in every country of the world?
	You would have had, you know, you'd have been on the I don't know, you'd have been on all of the big U.S. talk shows.
	Let's put it that way.
	You would have made headlines everywhere if you had got her to agree to do those tests.
	And then we could have nailed this once and for all.
	Right.
	No, I would I would agree with that.
	And we had conversations with her and the very first time that we talked with her and asked about that.
	And she she said her response to us at that time was, I don't need to prove anything to myself or to people.
	This is who I am.
	This is not my purpose.
	My purpose is not to be, you know, prove anything other than to be here and assist people who are prepared for the guidance that I can provide.
	And again, I would say in I rank off some feathers with this is that people who believe in someone like Vivian or anybody else who claims to be a hybrid.
	It's no different than somebody who has a belief in religion because it's based on faith.
	It's not based on fact.
	Right.
	So the Bible says, blessed are those who have not seen yet believed.
	Right.
	Correct.
	Correct.
	So it's then and then then that opens up a whole different discussion.
	You know, it's like, what do we believe?
	What are what is true?
	And when does faith become something so powerful that it over it supersedes truth?
	And that that that's an interesting again, that's another interesting conversation.
	What's the integration between faith and the belief in ufology?
	And that's what the biblical narrative kind of intersects with.
	One of the things that comes out from the conversation with Vivian Chauvet, who I found very compelling, I have to say.
	And, you know, you've got to see the documentary to understand what I'm saying here.
	But one of the things that came out from that conversation is that we are perhaps not the first civilization to go through this.
	In other words, there have been other civilizations in other places who have also gone through this melding process, hybridization process, guiding process.
	Well, I think one of the things you have to think in Dr. Jacobs talks about this as well in the film is that, you know, it's almost in a way it's a come on.
	We're not the first planet to go through something like this.
	And I encourage people to kind of, again, put yourself in the perspective and mindset of the vastness of the universe and how large it is.
	And to assume that everything that is happening at this moment in time on planet Earth is happening for the very first time.
	It's never happened anywhere else in the universe, in the cosmos.
	We wind up being very myopic when we start to live within the Earthbound bubble.
	And, you know, as we expand our knowledge, we expand our awareness of our place in the universe.
	There, I would guess to say that over the next 10 to 50 years, we're going to learn more about interdimensional elements and multiple levels of existence that we're not privy to at this moment in time.
	In the same way that flat Earth believers thousands of years ago thought the Earth was flat.
	Same as the people who thought that everything revolved around planet Earth until they found out it was a heliocentric.
	So all of these things change when this monumental movement of information is presented in a way that creates a shift.
	And for us to assume that we know everything at this point is ridiculous.
	That's the way that I would look at it is just because we have this belief structure and understanding of what we what we believe to be the reality doesn't necessarily mean that it is.
	It's just what we know today.
	Yeah, I think that is a great description of a an archetypal paradigm.
	You know, we live by paradigms and we have lived by paradigms for so much of our history.
	this may just be another one of those just very quickly as we round out this segment which i have to imminently because we've got to get to some commercials here but um one of the other things that came out from the conversation with vivi and chauvette is the idea that they are helping, they are helping our materialistic society, quotes, to be aware of its galactic heritage.
	That's a pretty big statement.
	It sounds a little bit like wishful thinking.
	This is the ascension, when you're talking within the ascension narrative, that it's filled with positivity and that it's like we're here to help and we're here to guide and we're here to elevate humanity.
	And I think we have a tendency to gravitate towards those things because they sound a little bit more believable and they sound comforting for the most part.
	But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's all true.
	And if, you know, anybody who there's the negative term around the ascension narrative is the love and light crowd.
	And anybody who has followed ufology knows that there are extremes within the ascension narrative.
	There are people who are way fringy and there are people who take this very, very seriously.
	There are people who want to believe that this is going to happen and there are people who are rooted in more experiential components of this.
	So to believe that you are part of a galactic heritage is profound, but I would look at it more, I would simplify it even further and say, if we want to have a conversation about origin and we want to have a conversation about source, we all come from the same place.
	We all come from the same space dust.
	We are all galactic citizens.
	So why do we spend so much time trying to fend our turf as being, well, we're from Earth.
	And it's no different.
	It is no different than how everything happens on the planet itself.
	And we just need to extrapolate it to more of a cosmic perspective.
	John Sumpel is here, the man behind this documentary, Extraordinary The Revelations.
	I think it would be a great place to start in 2021, 2022, if you're just starting to get interested in these questions, which are probably the biggest questions of our age, I would say.
	Just one thing before I talk about the so-called cover-up and what might have been covered up in this whole field, John.
	If we discover in 2022, as seems possible, not necessarily likely, but definitely possible, that we are not alone in this universe, how do you think the debate that you've had in your documentary will change, if at all?
	Well, I think it is an evolution.
	And one of the things that we talked about in the previous film is Ralph Waldo Emerson did an essay called Circles.
	And the basic premise there is that whenever you expand thought and knowledge and wisdom, it begs exponentially more questions.
	So we're expanding that awareness.
	So does that mean it's going to be a bombshell or is it going to be evolutionary?
	And I think what's happening right now, it is evolutionary.
	The narrative has changed.
	It's not UFOs, it's UAPs.
	We're focusing more on technology and less on sentient beings as far as the media is portraying and based on the narratives being pushed forward by military and governments around the world.
	So is it going to be a profound moment?
	Because I don't think it's going to be this big splash.
	It's not going to be this major announcement.
	It's going to be leading the horse to water when we get to the point where like when it when it when we introduce the inter the the the sentient beings, it's going to be like, well, of course we, of course there's beings behind this technology.
	So I think it's not going to be as profound as I think people hoped it would be going back 20, 30 years, that there's going to be some grand announcement.
	And the people who have been doing the research all these years and documenting things all these years are going to be justified in what they have uncovered.
	But I think that it's going to be more of an evolutionary thing than a grand announcement, that by doing it that way, people will be more accustomed to information as it comes out.
	So it won't be profound.
	What will be profound is what we talked about a little bit earlier is that, well, what about all the people who have been tortured as a result of how they've been victimized and how they have been ridiculed in the media by governments and anybody who doesn't believe?
	Which plays into the question that if we do make a discovery of something sentient at some point, then we need to be asking ourselves, in the light of the debate that you've been having, whether what we discover is what has been interfering with us, melding with us, hybridizing with us, whatever, if they are the ones responsible or if they are one of the societies that have also been affected.
	And if they've been affected, then what are we both being affected by?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	What are they bringing into the equation?
	That's a big question to ask, too.
	Is it positive?
	Is it negative?
	Is it no different than how we live our lives and we deal with things as they come?
	Are they more advanced?
	And depending on who you talk to, they're much more advanced from a technological perspective, but we're more advanced from an emotional or an EQ perspective.
	And that's their curiosity is why do we do what we do?
	Why do we, one thing that came up during some of the research that we were doing is pets.
	And why do we have such an affinity to pets, which was puzzling based on some of the research that we had did into some of the, I don't remember which race it was, but that they find it interesting in how we interact with animals.
	So things like that.
	Again, we can pick a thousand different things to kind of go down rabbit holes on.
	I think what the intention really is, is to continue to draw attention to this in a way that's educational as opposed to, I would say, dramatic or, you know, sci-fi.
	And encourages people, as you say rightly, to ask questions that need to be asking.
	You say that Harry Truman, president, was briefed.
	Eisenhower was concerned about this phenomenon.
	The CIA were Always concerned, but the public were told there's nothing to see here.
	And you say in the documentary, or it comes out of the documentary, that the reason they've been able to keep a lid on all of this, though they are concerned, is that everything over the years has been compartmentalized.
	Yes.
	And I think if you go back to the 40s, late 40s, and the Roswell crash, and before that, the sightings at Mount Rainier, all of a sudden there's this attention.
	And at the time, there might not have been awareness.
	And we were in the middle of a Cold War.
	And the fear, I think, initially was, who has this technology?
	Is it our enemies?
	And how are they doing this?
	And immediately it was going into protection mode, protection of your citizens, which is understandable.
	And I think that maybe for the first 20 to 30 years, there was this fear of if this news gets out and we don't know what it is, it's going to be pandemonium.
	And rightfully so.
	I think there was the intentions initially were to figure it out first, better understand what was happening before making any drawing any conclusions.
	But over time, it's now turned into something completely different.
	And based on different storytelling and different research and insights into government, the government has been aware.
	The government has been tapping into technology.
	There was a trade for technology.
	We get their technology.
	They get access to our citizens on the planet for studies.
	So, you know, those type of things, if they indeed happened and they have been buried and covered for years, I think the public has a right to know.
	I think there's going to be an outcry over that.
	The community of people who have been ridiculed has every reason to stand up and say, how am I going to be compensated for it?
	But are those people John being served at the moment?
	We see in Washington the Pentagon is coming up with something that looks like ATIP again.
	There is the Gillibrand move, the Senator Gillibrand move to have perhaps more openness about these things and the Pentagon perhaps being more cautious with its initiative over the last two weeks or so.
	Neither of those things seem to be coming to fruition at the moment or bringing us any revelations at the moment, to use your word.
	That's not helping all those people who say they've been abducted and have experienced this phenomenon.
	Well, I think a part of that, though, too, is that there's never been a better time to talk about this because of all the information that has percolated up.
	And it's now part of a daily, if not weekly, Discord.
	So the attention is there.
	The time seems to be right for having these discussions.
	I think the reason why so many, I would say, government people are looking for opportunities to advance this narrative is it's in their best interest politically to do things like that that draw attention to their name.
	And if they're the senator or the representative that can get this done and something is uncovered, that bodes well for them politically, for sure.
	All right.
	So that's the, just to jump in, just I'm conscious of time here.
	Okay.
	Is your thought, John, then, that the answer to getting the truth about all of this might be less in politics and more in science?
	In other words, less in Washington and more in the laboratories of the United States, the United Kingdom, and every other country.
	I would say that the advancements are coming not necessarily from government.
	They're coming from military.
	And military has a tendency to move top secret, above black, above gray type of projects into the public domain, into the private sector.
	And they co-locate them so that it's not something that's specific to government initiatives.
	And that's a very smart way of kind of washing your hands clean of something is if it gets buried into a different or multiple different initiatives, components of something could be distributed all over the world and in different situations.
	So I think there is a heightened awareness at a military level.
	And these are my personal beliefs just based on the things that we've uncovered during our research, is that there's a hierarchy within the global military, not necessarily in one country over another, that something is indeed available and there is a desire to replicate the technology and use it for our benefit.
	But the bigger question is, is at what level is it known?
	And I don't think it's known by elected officials anywhere in the world.
	I think it's very, very limited on how much they know, if they know anything at all.
	Yeah, I think I have a certain amount of sympathy with that view, John.
	Last segment of this conversation, I think, is the high point of your documentary, but that's just a personal view from a viewer of it.
	Cliffin Stone, former U.S. military man.
	I think it was quite a good get to be able to get him on there.
	He claims that he was part of a remote viewing project that the U.S. military had, that he knew people, was part of people who communicated with, quote, the visitors, and was even taken to a location where something had crashed.
	Talk to me about him.
	So Clifford is probably, I would say, if this film has a heart and soul, it's more of a big picture film than it is about an individual.
	But the heart and soul of this film is Clifford and his vulnerability, his willingness to go to these places that were traumatic for him and provide stories and insight into what he experienced in those moments.
	And the three military people that we had in the film, Dan Sherman, Clifford Stone, and Lynn Buchanan, all talk about their role in the UFO agenda.
	Lynn's was more not necessarily directly involved, but Dan and Clifford both were.
	They were, from their perspectives, they were born with DNA and potentially hybrid situations where they were targeted to be in the military to serve a role in the future, that they would play a role.
	And they were, in so many words, cultivated and used by the military to take advantage of their abilities and capabilities.
	And Clifford was used as a conduit during crash retrievals, and he had been on many of them.
	There's one that's specifically featured in the film where he gets emotional in telling that and said that it was his first encounter.
	And in talking to his superior, he said, I don't want to have to go through that again.
	And basically is told, well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but it's going to happen again.
	And he says that it happened to him again and again and again.
	So to hear him talk about it, you can see that there is trauma there.
	You can see the emotion.
	And Clifford is such a gentle soul, too.
	He's not somebody who has an agenda of his own.
	All of that comes across so clearly.
	Yeah, and unfortunately, he passed away just a few months back.
	I didn't know that.
	I'm sorry to hear that.
	Yeah, he passed away earlier this year.
	Really disappointed that we didn't have a chance to get this out for him to see it.
	We dedicate the film in the opening sequence to Clifford for his willingness to kind of tell his story and be brave enough to share and encourage others to do the same.
	But the way he told the story about the encounter with something, I think it was the first encounter, the one that you detail, you have a sketch of it.
	He was taken to a military base.
	It was nighttime.
	There were military vehicles and lights.
	And then in a sort of crater, there was a craft that was shaped, as he described it, like a shoe.
	Yeah, heel shape.
	And that when his whole thing was he was, you know, given a Geiger counter and told to walk towards this berm where there was a hole in the ground and every few steps, you know, give off the readings.
	And then he said, when he gets to the edge of the crater, what he saw was not of this planet.
	And you can tell in that moment when he's telling the story, and we spent, obviously we couldn't get everything that he shared with us into the film.
	He could be the subject of a documentary unto itself.
	But as he shared the things that we recorded during the interview, it was all very emotional.
	All of it was.
	Every time he started sharing about anything that was connected to his experiences at crash sites, it was emotional.
	And that was a profound moment for him because it was the first time he had had that experience.
	And he just didn't feel like he was the person that should be doing this.
	He needed somebody who was a higher authority with him to, you know, who's going to take the word of just this person.
	So, you know, how does somebody like that get chosen to do something like that?
	Well, that's a key question.
	And it makes you wonder, just as we get into the last 60 seconds here, John, it makes you wonder, and, you know, may he rest in peace.
	I'm sorry to hear that he passed away earlier this year.
	I didn't know that.
	But it makes you wonder how many others potentially have left us now and have taken such secrets to their graves.
	That's the part that we're hoping to see more people willing to have whistleblower intentions.
	And you don't have to reveal everything.
	And like Dan Sherman didn't reveal everything, but the more people that are willing to talk about their experiences with this phenomenon, the more likely we are to embrace it or at the very least, explore it further.
	John, congratulations on your documentary.
	It's called Extraordinary the Revelations.
	How do people get it?
	It's available right now.
	If you go to our website, j3films.com, there is a page that will take you to information about the site, about the film, and where you can see it.
	And just click on the link and it'll take you to a landing page that has all of the different streaming sites that have it currently available.
	Well, I know a lot of hard work went into this.
	Sorry, you were saying.
	No, I just was just that it's a worldwide release.
	Some people are saying like on Amazon that, well, it's not available in my country, but it is available on a variety of different platforms at this time.
	And over time, it will move into video on demand and it will move into streaming, free streaming platforms.
	But, you know, as distributors handle all of that information and when that happens, but currently it's available on Amazon, iTunes, all the Apple TV Plus, all of the big brains.
	So just go to your website, check it out.
	John Sumple, I'm totally out of time.
	Thank you very much, and I wish you every success with this.
	Thank you so much.
	Hope you enjoyed that conversation.
	John Sumple is the man we've been speaking to, and I'm sure we'll speak with him again.
	More great guests in the pipeline here at the home of the unexplained as we near Christmas.
	So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
	This has been The Unexplained Online.
	And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm.
	And above all, you know, please stay in touch.
	Thank you very much.
	Take care.

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