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Nov. 22, 2021 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:06:58
Edition 593 - Paul Sinclair
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Hey, really good to hear from you.
Please keep the emails coming.
Even if I don't get to reply to every email personally, unless you ask for a reply, please know that I see each and every email as it comes in, and they are all gratefully received.
If you want to contact me, you will know this if you're a regular listener.
Please tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use the show.
Please go to my website, theunexplained.tv, devised and created by Adam, and you can follow the link and send me an email from there.
Thank you very much.
If you've got in touch recently, you know that you are the lifeblood of my show.
Now, on this edition of The Unexplained, a specially extended version of my conversation with the great Paul Sinclair in Yorkshire.
He has anytime now, a new book coming out, Truth Proof 4, Beyond Reasonable Doubt.
And I'm very pleased to have had a tiny little part of that book.
You will see an endorsement from me, richly deserved for Paul on the back of the book.
Also, Whitley Streeber has endorsed the book and many others.
And, you know, Paul is such a diligent and hard-working researcher that he gets my vote every single time.
So I think you're going to be interested, as I say, an extended version of what you might have heard on the radio on the 21st of November coming up here.
Thank you for your emails, your communications.
I am not going to hang about.
Let's get to Paul Sinclair and say, Paul, thank you for coming back on my show.
How are you?
I'm good.
Thank you, Howard.
And as always, good to speak with you.
Yes, we've been 100% busy.
Spent last weekend in the forests of North Yorkshire, sleeping there with various people, witnesses included.
So like you said, it never stops.
It doesn't.
And how does it feel to have been on the roller coaster ride that you've had in the last five years?
I think it's five years since we first spoke.
You did your first interview with me.
But, you know, how does it feel now to reach so many people?
I actually love it, Howard.
It is difficult at times because there's so many plates in the air.
So I am pleased that Truth Proof 4, Beyond Reasonable Doubt, is just about ready to go to print.
I should have the books by the end of next week, I would think, fingers crossed.
And that's kind of a weight off my shoulders because there's so many other things and there's reports coming all the time.
I don't mean hundreds and hundreds people, but there's lots of information coming.
I mean, some of it's not credible, but a lot of it is worth researching and following up.
So, yeah, I really like it.
I think as a researcher, if that's what we call ourselves, this is what we crave.
You know, when you're looking initially and you get the odd report and somebody tells you something and you follow it up, but to have such a volume, it's just amazing.
And I just appreciate all the people that do reach out and give me this information.
And you do have, we'll talk about this, but you have an awful lot of people who now provide you with information.
They volunteer it for you.
But it's interesting to look at the jacket of the new book.
You've got endorsements from various people, including Whitley Streeber, the man who wrote Communion and the Day After Tomorrow.
Yeah, that's correct.
I'm forever grateful to Whitley.
You know, in probably 2006, I may have got the year wrong, but I were putting a lot of little clips of UFO footage or should we say anomalous light footage out from the East Yorkshire Wolds.
And they went on places like UFO Casebook and other big websites back in the day.
And Whitley must have seen them.
And he reached out to me and asked me to go on Dreamland, which I declined.
I kind of didn't feel ready.
But he never lost touch and he's always been, even if it's just a few words, excuse me, even if it's just a few words, it's uplifting when you're trying to forge your way along within the subject.
And like yourself, Howard, people like you, Whitley, the shows like the other big, big shows, the American ones, they've all been massively helpful and uplifting for such as myself.
Yeah, but all of that comes from the core, and the core of it is you.
If you weren't doing research of the kind that you're doing and being so diligent about it, then you wouldn't be getting this kind of attention, Paul.
So, you know, any attention that you have got is well deserved, I think.
I just want to run one thing past you quickly before we dive into the book, the new edition.
Your last book, Night People, you and I had quite a deep conversation about that, and I'm glad that we did.
But it was straight from the heart, that one.
That was your own experiences of very peculiar things that happened to you from a very early age.
And you say in the book, the new one, you say that Night People gained you support from areas that you never imagined and has also lost you friends.
In truth, they were never friends if the contents of a book caused them to act differently towards me.
I mean, I guess that kind of stuff goes with the territory.
It really does.
And I spent years doing what I do, doing what we're going to be talking about today, Howard, without really touching on my own experiences.
And they're the reasons why I'm so focused, why I want the witnesses who come to me with their accounts to be put over in the most credible, believable way.
That is why I put so much effort into that.
And I've no shame in saying that's what I try to do.
If I've got faith that a person's telling me the truth, then I want to make their story as credible as possible.
But it's because there's a saying, ain't the seeing is believing.
Well, I've seen things that there isn't a compartment inside Howard Hughes' head or Paul Sinclair's head.
Well, there is now.
Seeing is believing.
But what I'm saying is most people don't have a place for this in their heads until they've seen or experienced it because it's so outside of the norm.
So when I wrote Night People and not everybody, you know, a few close friends and obviously my wife and family had spoken about the things that had happened to me.
But then people outside of that were able to read Night People.
Some of them, it kind of, I don't know, turned them away.
Suddenly had Paul's cuckoo.
You know, other people, it kind of strengthened, if you want, we'll call it a friendship or a respect, a mutual respect for each other.
You find out who your friends are.
You do, you really do, because you realise that you do have friends, and there'll be people who can relate to this.
When you can talk about, let's just narrow it down to a UFO sighting, and you've got this friend and you stood talking to them, you tell them what it was all about, and then that friend gets with a group of people and yourself, and suddenly he wants to place you as the butt of ridicule.
So you realize that they're being slightly disingenuous.
They want to be sort of genuine to you when they're talking one-to-one.
But when they get with a group of people, and I think we'll have all experienced this, or tell them about that UFO and there's all sorts of little sniggers and things, and you're thinking, hold on a minute, we were talking about this in a serious manner a few days ago when I first told you.
You know, that's just hypothetical, but you sort of, it divides people.
I think what we're saying just to wrap this part up is that, you know, it's great to do this stuff, but there is a price to be paid sometimes, and that is the price that you pay for getting in front of so many people.
It's not an easy road that you tread, I don't think.
And I'm glad that you are treading it, and I'm glad that you got so much support while you do.
Now, Truth Proof 4, latest book, more stories, and it's so impressive to see how ordinary people are bringing you their stories more and more.
Some of them heard about you on my show, which is nice.
But, you know, in the book, there are stories from people like Kaz Gray.
She encountered something in the forest, an envelope of silence, like a lot of people report.
Greg, a big brown cat sighting.
Rob saw something that looked like a hyena.
Jamie and Lee, I think they rented a cottage and they caught some weird creature at Flamborough using 4K night vision video.
And that's just a few of the people who've been in touch and they've all contributed in their own way to this book.
Yeah, and it's wonderful that, I mean, because I always give the option of anonymity.
Ideally, you want to be able to put their real names because you're potentially going to get someone saying, well, Adam, we know he's not just made this up.
So it's nice when people give their real names, as I say, but they don't have to if I've got faith in what they're telling me.
And the Gaz Gray sighting that you touched on, or experience, should we say, that took place at a location called Scolby Mills, close to Scarborough.
And it has so many connections to other things.
I mean, his was not a sighting, more of an experience.
He went up there to try and view the northern lights and just enjoy a bit of solitude because he's a married guy with a few children and he'd got a bit of time to spare.
And he said, suddenly, I'm sat there in the night and I became aware that all sounds of the sea had stopped.
The seagulls, which are very vocal, even on a night, they've got eyes better than owls, I think, where they fly about around here, to be honest with you.
But he said, everything just stopped.
It went completely silent.
And his exact words were as though someone had pressed pause on the world.
He said, and then I became aware of a large, heavy animal moving through the undergrowth, a distance away, almost thunderous.
And it got louder and louder.
He says, and I became terrified.
And I dropped into the fetal position.
And just as this thing was about to impact me, everything switched back to normal.
So that's more of an experience than a sighting.
But what's interesting, if where he was sat, he could look down into the bay and you look down into what's called Jackson's Bay.
And in Jackson's Bay, rock anglers for many years have reported UFO sightings whilst fishing in the bay.
Not just one or two, I've got quite a lot.
There's a guy called Malley, Malley Skelton, who was in the book, and he were rock angling.
He'd have been able to see Gazgrave, Gaza had been sat at the top of the cliffs.
Obviously, it's a different time, but we're in the same kind of years.
We're looking at 2018, 19.
And he suddenly felt uneasy.
That was his words.
And he turned around.
And most people have, these rock anglers are these big, powerful head torches.
And he flicked it on.
He said, and walking along the edge of the cliffs, 100 yards away is a huge animal on all fours that he can't identify.
He said, I didn't know whether it were a cat or a dog.
As big as a great Dane.
It was very unusual.
And it didn't look at him.
It showed no interest in him.
And carried on going.
And then the rough sort of earth path that he'd trodden down to get onto the beach to do the fishing, this thing went up and disappeared.
Needless to say, Mali had to go up there later in the night and he was very nervous.
They're just things, Howard, that kind of defy explanation.
We know that some people listening to it, well, well, he's probably just seen a big dog.
But, you know, we know when we've seen a big dog.
And these events, these sightings are prominent enough for people to reach out and tell you about.
It's not like, oh, we're just walking in fields and there were a big black Labrador running along bottom at field.
And of course, these sightings come with accessories.
Like you say, the supposed feeling that time has been suspended, the envelope of silence that surrounds you.
Those are common facets of reports that are not just people seeing a large domestic dog or cat.
No, I've called it the lower silence because many of these accounts, even the cryptid accounts in the forests, what accompanies many of the UFO accounts is this lower silence, this almost descent into a bubble of difference that the witness can't explain.
And I don't know whether we're being immersed into that environment or whether it's the environment descending upon us.
Something strange is happening.
I mean, I've said in the first few books, location is key.
And I do believe it in most instances because we get lots of similar phenomena, be it multi-phenomena events occurring in concentrated locations.
And that's not just around eastern North Yorkshire.
As you know, Howard, that's worldwide.
But I'm not sure how science is able to study this.
And as you know, I'm not a scientist, so I'm not going to profess to have the answers to it.
But however way people are looking at it at the moment, it can't be in the correct way because we're not really getting anywhere at all with it.
I mean, no matter which way we look at the subject, we're not advancing and breaking into what it is that's presenting.
I mean, 50 years ago, all the explanations that were put forward for these things don't stand up now.
They don't, and I was just going to say, and I'm sorry for jumping in, but scientists are increasingly coming to be aware of these things.
And I think, you know, study of these things is beginning, but it is a slow and painful process, isn't it?
Well, it is.
And without dropping any names, I've got scientists that are talking to me and wanting details of the sightings and the information that I'm gathering, particularly about the light forms, which is interesting because there are people taking it seriously.
And that's been happening now for at least two years.
I've got one guy with a science background who's written in the latest book.
I mean, he's not written a great paper or anything, but he's written in the book and sort of put his name to his thoughts and his views on what he's presenting.
Because I think when you look at the vast amount of witness reports, I mean, that's why I've called it beyond reasonable doubt.
We know that anecdotal evidence is not the same as other types of evidence, but it's enormous.
The quantity of reports, the people who say that, oh, there's no such thing as Bigfoot.
I suggest that these people look on YouTube and look on the internet and do the research and see the thousands upon thousands of first-hand witness accounts that are out there from people from all walks of life and great diversity.
And they're all reporting something very similar.
And they can't all be making it up.
They can't, Howard.
No, I wouldn't think so.
Or deluded, or they think they've seen one thing and they've seen another.
Now, in the book, Truth Proof 4, Beyond Reasonable Doubt, fair play to you, because you not only do very recent material, and a lot of books don't do so much recent material.
You absolutely do because of the volume of reports you get.
But you also put new information on previous cases, ones that we knew about.
The Silpho Saucer.
This is a 1950s case.
Quotes, did a tiny flying saucer fall to earth on a cold November night?
Something from another world with a message for mankind?
Or was it, as some say, nothing more than an elaborate hoax?
Now, you went back and did a bit of digging about this case.
That's correct.
It would have been rude not to, because one of the forests that we were looking at, which is very close to Silpho, around Langdale and Broxer Forest, they're all within a few miles of each other.
So we ended up on the top of Silpho Moor doing a bit of filming.
And I knew about the case.
And there's 12 houses on Silpho, Silpho Moor.
It's very remote.
And we ended up speaking to a few of the locals.
And one of them kindly got a scrapbook out and showed us not ancient, old paper clippings of things that had happened over the years.
But interestingly, Howard, no researcher from the day, past or present, until probably three or four months ago when I visited, had ever spoken to the locals about the Silfo saucer.
Now, I'm not in a position to say that this thing came from outer space or this thing was a hoax.
I genuinely don't know.
There are many elements to it, Howard, that present and think, well, it is.
It's an obvious hoax.
But there are other parts to it that are intriguing, such as I think it was about 18 inches in circumference, this small copper saucer-shaped object that were found on the moor.
And people have speculated over the years that it was made or somehow fashioned from a water cylinder.
But what they omit to say when they're putting these reports out is that the metal or the copper was tested by the British Non-Ferrous Metals Association and it was found to be of an extremely high purity, therefore ruling out being a copper water cylinder.
That doesn't mean it couldn't be man-made.
I'm not saying that.
Inside it, they found a book, I think, of 17 copper pages, each laminated wafer thin, each page made of three wafer-thin sheets of copper that were somehow laminated together.
And I don't think they know how they were laminated together even today.
And they were full of hieroglyph-type lettering.
I think it was deciphered.
I haven't got the words, the exact words on me, but I think it was something like improve or disappear.
Somebody will correct me, but I've not got it in front of me, Howard.
Well, I've got it from the book here.
In fact, as you say, the message was interpreted as, quotes, improve or disappear.
Now, you know, that was 1950, whatever it was.
Was it 57?
1957, I think it was November 57, yeah.
And an interesting sighting.
What a message, hey?
I know, what a message.
And, you know, yeah, an interesting sighting.
I mean, and very close to the areas where we've been spending time in the forests.
I mean, very close to where the three guys camped is a forest called Broxa.
And these three men, two of them have gone on film for Wolflands.
The other one doesn't want to, which is fine.
Back to your documentary about werewolves.
They claim, and we've wrote about it.
I mean, they claim that they were trapped overnight in the forest by something that they could only describe as a werewolf.
Now, people understand, I'm not subscribing to the idea that this is real.
I believe what they're telling me.
I just don't know what it is they've seen.
The description is absolutely incredible.
But when you look at the history and you dig into the mythology of this place, they were very close to Broxa.
So In folklore, in Jewish folklore, a Broxa is a shapeshifter.
So we've got a forest named after a shape-shifting entity.
Isn't that interesting?
I wonder how far back that name goes.
Also, in that area, and you describe this in the book, because the forest is so dense, I don't think people who live in towns can understand how dense the forest is up there, but it is.
You found a stone, and on that stone, there were more hieroglyphs, right?
Well, that's correct.
It were Roman numerals, Roman lettering.
And once again, people, forgive me, I can't remember what they actually said now, but we've got photographs of them on the book.
And this refers to a forest seven miles inland, but also connected.
They're all connected.
They're just separated by simply by name.
And this was in Stape.
And the gamekeeper, his story is walking, when the event started, he was walking home to an abandoned farmhouse where he'd been staying whilst they were heavily involved with the pheasant season.
And a sphere of light sprung up from the side of his leg, just literally from nowhere.
And being an ex-Marine, he dropped his cousin to the ground who was with him at the time and expected to have lit a trip flare up.
But it didn't happen.
But that was in 2002.
So to jump back to the stone, when we revisited in 2020 with Jeff, it could be late 2019, where this sphere of light sprung up is a standing stone that's laid on its side.
Jeff never sort of connected it at the time.
I mean, he was a young man at the time, and he weren't looking for anything paranormal or standing stones.
It looks like a smaller version of the Rudston monolith.
And there's all moss blanketed over it and things.
But when we went, you can see growing through the moss lettering.
I think it's 92.
I think obviously it's in Roman numerals, but it's not, so it doesn't say 92.
But I think that's what it signifies.
And there's a meaning for that as well.
So I thought, how intriguing that we've got this stone where the sphere of light sprung up.
And then several days later, he has this encounter with this huge creature in the forest that's staring in at him in the farmhouse.
But I think it's amazing you're unearthing literally new material about existing cases.
Just if we've got time, just to dwell on that, you know, if we jump back to close to Broxer Forest, within close proximity to that, there's an area of land, very ancient piece of land called Moor Rig.
This area of land close to Broxer Forest and close to where these three men from Rotherham had their experience.
And there's a place called Moor Rig.
And a rig is an outcrop of rocky land.
But I'm more interested in the word Moor because it's spelt M-A-W.
And when people talk about the Moor, they talk about the gaping jaws of hell and Thenrir the Viking hound that brought about the end of days, the end of the world in Ragnarok in Viking mythology or Norse mythology.
So I'm not saying, oh, this is the reason they've seen this unearthly creature that stood watching them in the night, but you've got all these connotations.
You've got the forest name Broxa, the shape-shifting forest, should we say.
You've got Moor Rig with its connections to Fenrir, the Viking hound of hell.
You've got tributaries like little dikes running into it called Helworth Beck, Blarworth Beck, which means running wolves and running with wolves.
You've got Howell Moor, Howell Gate.
Let's not forget that wolves would have been prevalent back in the day, hundreds of years ago.
But there's a lot more connections, you know, and it's not, as I said in the book, it's not called Butterfly Meadow, you know, because obviously that kind of tells you if it's Butterfly Meadow, that it's attributed to butterflies.
But it's called these names for other reasons.
And just up the coast, we've got Gothland.
And that's got its own story of the guy trash, the huge fearsome dog.
I mean, we can actually see Gothland from the high points of these forests.
We're not talking 20 miles away.
We're talking, depending on where you are in forests, five to ten miles away.
Then if you go up to Kettle Ness, you've got the further along the coast, all in close proximity, you've got the stories of the huge black dogs with the glowing red eyes.
We get them at Ravenscar.
I've got report in between these places, there's a place called Beast Cliff.
And the rock anglers have reported to me over the years seeing huge glowing eyes lighting up in the night and coming down the cliff paths towards them to the point where they've cut their lines, picked their odds up.
I think I've spoke about this on one of your shows and done a runner.
What I'm saying, Howard, is the things of folklore are still being reported today.
And we're no closer to an explanation for what these things are.
And there's more and more people stepping forward.
I mean, the guys from Rotherham, I mean, I've got so much praise for them because let's just talk about credibility for a moment.
The first time we met them, I can't remember exact date, but they traveled straight from work from Rotherham.
We met them at Rhisti Bank, which actually means Rancid, which is very close to these forests.
We met them at Rhistibank.
Anybody can Google these places.
And we descended down into a ravine to hear them tell us what they'd seen and what they'd experienced.
They wanted to tell us firsthand, not to go on film, just to tell us.
We got out of that ravine in darkness.
They wouldn't have got home till after midnight and they'd come straight from work without food.
Does that sound like the kind of people that would drive all that distance just to tell you a yarn.
Do you know what I'm saying, Howard?
And since then, we've slept in the forest with these guys and spent time gathering their story, and it's not changed, it's remained the same.
And I just find it fascinating.
And I think you've sometimes, as a researcher, I know we've got to be neutral on most things because, you know, I mean, one person's story might not be the kind of thing that we're looking into or not looking into.
Let me reword that.
One person's account might not be the thing that we're wholeheartedly interested in, but we've got to sort of give it some kind of room to be heard.
But these guys, I actually believe what they're telling me.
I'm not saying, I'm not subscribing to the fact that there's some kind of biped, fur-covered creature wandering these forests that's managed to remain undetected.
I believe it's something else.
It is something from the paranormal realm.
I genuinely do believe.
Well, there does seem to be, certainly if you look at accounts of Bigfoot around the world, not all of them, but a lot of them have a kind of paranormal level to them, which is a veneer upon the main story that a lot of people tell.
But so many stories you've got in this book, and some of them have got names that you won't forget in a hurry, like, you know, the Pynchinthorpe Forest Chewbacca reported by a guy called Dean.
And there are so many others that are similar.
And the amazing thing for you must be that when you talk about these things on shows like this, you get emails from other ordinary people who say, I just wanted you to know, hope I'm not bothering you, Paul, but I had something similar.
Exactly.
It's just snowballs and rolls and rolls.
I had a conversation with a guy yesterday morning called Peter.
I'll not say his surname because I haven't spoken to the first-hand witness yet, but I trust Peter.
Peter's been a friend for many years and he'd been for a meal with some people in Bridlington.
And it turns out that one of the people there, Peter mentioned me, and one of the people there said they knew of my books.
And before, didn't say much more, but before they left, they had a quiet word with Peter.
And this particular person said that in August of this year, during the daytime, obviously I've got to speak to this person to verify the fact.
She observed for 15 minutes a huge gold square of, well, a square in the sky over the sea from Bempton.
So there's another sighting.
Now, yesterday afternoon, this is why I was talking to Peter, to be quite honest with you.
I was asked if I would go and check on the guy who lives in Danesdyke, because I know where his camp is, because he'd not been to collect some provisions that they give him every week.
So I did.
I took him some food and I went and sat with him, but then I went for a little walk and I ended up talking to a guy.
I don't know if we want to do this one, Howard, but I always ask the question, have you seen anything unusual while you've been in here?
Particularly if they look like the walkers, I wouldn't just say it to some random person, you know, with a group of children who'd look like the holiday makers.
So obviously people who are there for a reason.
Yeah.
And he told me he had.
And he told me it was October the 15th.
Well, what he said was, what date is it today?
And I said, well, November the 15th.
He says, well, it'll have been about a month ago.
So we'll say October the 15th.
He says, and I get public transport and I was getting the bus at the bottom of Dane's Dike.
Before you turn right and go into the dike, he says, and it had been about half past four.
The bus comes at five.
And I was just changing my Wellingtons to my normal shoes.
And something caught my eye.
He says, and a huge dog came out of the dike, a huge grey dog, as big as a great Dane, but a lot more thicker set.
He says it didn't look aggressive.
He said its head was huge and its eyes were sparkling.
And this story came yesterday.
And he said, I looked at it.
He said, and it looked at me.
I said, I didn't feel frightened.
He says, but his face looked human.
He's allowed me to record him, Howard, and I've no, and I've changed his name, but I've no problem sending you a recording.
It's because I did record him yesterday telling me this.
And he said that it dropped back down into the dike.
He says, now I'm that intrigued I'd got a few minutes before the bus come that I walked over and looked in the dike to see where it had gone.
There were no sign of it.
He said, but that one, no normal dog.
He said, I honestly believe that its face looked human.
Now, isn't that amazing?
That almost goes back to tales not quite from that area, just south of there, from around Hull, Old Stinker.
Doesn't it really?
It kind of sounds like that in a way.
It does, but when you think about it, Howard, these are just, this is just one day.
This was yesterday.
So through talking to my friend Peter, I get the potential sighting.
We'll not put too much weight on the gold square over Bempton until I've spoken to the witness.
But we've got that.
And then obviously going to take the guy who lives in the dike some food and check on his well-being.
I'd decide to have a couple of hours in the dike walking and I get this story from this guy, first-hand account.
I'm going to speak to him again and I'll gauge it from there.
It's not something that I would just write about instantly, people, because you'd like to get a little bit more background on the person.
Because when you speak to them a second time, they might come out with something else and they might come out with something else.
And then you start thinking to yourself, hold on a minute.
This is really growing into some kind of fantasy.
As far as I know, that's the only story he'd got and that's the only thing that he told me, which is, once again, fascinating.
Do you find that the first version of a story that you're given before you have a chance to go back and talk to a person again is the best version?
Do you find that, you know, if you leave it a couple of weeks or a month or so before going back to talk to somebody, that maybe the details are less distinct?
Or there's the possibility, and we all do this, if you've had an experience, You've been through something, you think back on it.
You might add something that actually didn't happen, but you think it did.
I think you could do that.
And I think you've got to get the accounts as close to when they happened as possible.
Then nothing grows within that, like you've just said, in that person's mind.
That is the best time to get them invariably.
But I do like to listen to the account several times just in case something changes within the account that's vastly and you think you've just tripped yourself up here.
Do you know what I mean?
You know, you actually said that you came in here at 5 p.m. in the evening, but now you're saying you arrived at 1 p.m.
Just little details, and they're not actual exact, you know, but it is difficult.
You're constantly scrutinizing what people are telling you.
But the more you do it, and it's obvious from talking to you, the better at this you are getting.
And you are already very good, but you're getting even better.
Okay.
All of this, certainly our conversations began at Bempton, the cliffs there.
Now, this is an area, if you haven't been there, and I haven't been there yet, but I've read a lot about it, that is an exposed area of cliffs.
You're looking straight down into the North Sea.
People have seen lights and all sorts there for years.
There have been many encounters of bizarre kinds there.
And it seems that what goes on at Bempton just never stops.
There's always something different.
It is an active place.
And I think we should expand it to sort of Flamborough and Speaton and further up the coast as well.
But yeah, if I were to stick a pin in the map, it would probably be there.
But then I'd be being a little bit biased because I do spend a lot of time there.
It's been quiet for myself and Bob Brown the last few months.
But I do know that the spheres of light that I called the intelligent light forms were seen by rock anglers on October the 2nd because they got in touch with me to tell me that.
And there's only so many hours in a day, Howard, and so many days in a week because I can't be there all the time.
So chances are things are happening.
I mean, it just goes to show, just briefly jumping back to those two accounts yesterday, as soon as you start asking the questions in the right environment to the right people, you're getting information that ordinarily they'd have never spoken about.
So I mean, I would love to put it out there to the people who are walking that area and just see how much more information is available.
I mean, I've been told indirectly by some of the locals that, oh, that guy's got an amazing story to tell you.
Well, will he tell me?
Well, no, I don't really want to talk about it.
And there's lots of people sat on information.
Right.
And you need to be able to get hold of that, which is why I guess it's good to do conversations like the one that we are having because it gets the word out there.
Let's talk about the big cat.
Sorry, if you were about to say something else, let me know.
Yeah, yeah, just briefly then.
Yeah, well, with Wilsthorpe, the events of Willsthorpe from 2009, primarily September 2009, a witness came forward called Carly, who witnessed a huge UFO parallel in them as they drove along the road going down towards Bridlington, towards the Wilsthorpe roundabout.
Chances of this happening are slim, but I would love the car that was in front of them, a red saloon car that stopped.
I mean, Carly hadn't, they thought the guy in front was drunk.
He were weaving all over the road, and they didn't realize it was because he was so shocked, probably, because of this UFO that were paralleling the cars.
And the red car pulled over, and they overtook it and then looked to their right and saw the UFO.
I would love the guy in the red car if he's out there or he ever hears this or anybody listening to Howard Hughes' amazing show and is familiar with this.
Please get that guy to get in touch with me.
I'll give him complete anonymity, but it just adds more weight to the truth of what happened at Willstorpe.
And this Willsthorpe story, I was going to get to that anyway, but let's do it now.
This is a gift that keeps giving, isn't it?
I mean, you've been in the national newspapers about this Willsthorpe sighting.
It is.
And unfortunately, the elderly couple that told me, I haven't really shared it with anyone else.
I mean, anybody that wants to go to this location, I think there's 16 flats on the edge of the North Sea with nothing to the right of them, nothing to the left, and the sea in front.
And I've said many times, a gut at bottom of their gardens, and you can throw a stone into the sea.
This, I think, was a genuine UFO-related event.
And the neighbours, a lot of these flats are empty during the winter because people use them as holiday flats.
But a few have them as permanent homes.
So the neighbours from the day back in September 2009 all remember the couple telling them about the UFOs, although they didn't see them themselves.
I mean, there's nobody saying that they should have done.
There'd have probably only been about five or six homes occupied that night that the main event took place.
We know that there's another witness that their report is now in Protected Archive, where they, so I can't get at it, where they saw spheres of light traveling from the right and spheres of light traveling from the left towards what they described as a black yacht sail in the sky.
So we know there's that.
We know that the bait diggers, the guys who dig bait for the fishermen, and they sell these lugworms and things to the rock anglers and the beach fishermen.
We know that they were taken off the beach by the military the night before the event.
And the bait diggers themselves claim to have seen triangular shaped objects entering the water days and weeks before the events on two occasions.
You know, there were a multitude of information.
There's a guy with a science-based background who's in the book, who on, I think it was September the 15th, 2009, and he can date it because he was having his kitchen fitted, which is good for us, really, because it dates it to the same date.
So, and he lives in York, and he saw an object fly over overhead, totally silent, that was, he said it like the shape of a piece of cheesecake, a wedge shape, and it looked like rolled molten metal, the underside of it, as it slowly went over his property.
So many people making reports.
Plus, the military involvement always adds a little bit of extra flavor to it.
So it makes you wonder just what was going on.
And I think one thing we can, you don't have to be a betting person, but you can probably guarantee that you're going to get more reports about Wilshorpe.
I do hope so, Howard.
I really do.
And, you know, I think it's finding out the reasons why it was so active.
Was it the location?
I mean, when I put a Freedom of Information request in, the military got back to me.
The MOD got back to me and said that, yes, we were there.
It was a top-secret military exercise.
However, any gunshots, I think it said, or explosions heard were all simulated.
Well, nobody reported any gunshots or explosions.
Isn't that interesting?
So it makes you wonder.
And this kind of makes me think of the Penturk incident in West Wales that I spoke with Kaz Clark about recently.
You know, that sometimes military activity and military events go on, but they are surrounded by strangeness that we don't get to fully understand and we don't get fully explained.
And I think that's one of those cases that you're talking about here at Willsthorpe.
So if you heard or know anything about that, it was 2009.
Did you say September?
September was the...
Yeah, what we'll call the main event.
But there were many sightings leading up to it.
So the area was active.
I mean, I didn't know about Will Thoughts specifically until a few years after until I put an advert, a little write-up in a paper asking for information about it.
So what we'll do is we'll give your email address so that people can get in touch with you at the end of this port.
So let's get to this.
The Humminbee UFO.
Now, this is possibly the granddaddy of them all in that area.
Strange saucer with flashing lights and people reporting seeing very tall creatures and also, I believe, poltergeist activity.
We've talked about this before.
Is there anything new about Humminbee?
There isn't, apart from I've written about it in the new book and really kind of done a number on it as detailed as I can.
I know I've spoken about it before.
And once again, I'd hate to just for listeners to think that I'm just using the show to appeal for new witnesses, but we've got to reach out to people.
Hummumby has all the ingredients, Howard, of a fabulous UFO case.
It's close encounters, isn't it?
Oh, it's just incredible.
For anybody that's not who's not familiar with it, I suggest that you listen to maybe one of Howard's podcasts that's been done with me and you'll get a few more details on it.
But basically, in August of 1998, three men at a warehouse on the outskirts of Hunanby, an industrial unit, witnessed a UFO landing in the compound at the back, huge compound that was there for parking large vehicles up and motor cars and things.
But before that, but three years prior to that, June, July, and August, as it happens, God knows why, those three months, poltergeist activity occurred, light bulbs popping, coins dropping out of the air, coffee jars falling out of the air.
We don't mean being thrown across.
This is in a controlled environment, should we say?
It's in this industrial unit with these three men working on high-quality motor vehicles, let me say.
So, you know, they weren't about to throw coins about and washers and, as we say, steel washers, people, not washing machines.
All of this stuff happened.
The radios suddenly, all the power would spark in the unit, yet the radio would continue to play.
And it weren't plugged in by batteries.
The motor vehicles parked outside.
The radios would come on in the night and be playing loud.
And they knew this because there was a guy living in a caravan at the back of the compound and he'd complained.
Well, they'd no control over what was happening.
The owner of the unit went to lock up in the early hours one morning because I'll get to why they were there late at night.
Suddenly he became overcome by the feeling of fear and turned round.
And there's a huge figure that is described, well, his description sounds like a Bigfoot.
And it literally just stood in the darkness looking at him.
He said, and he just pressed himself back to the fence and sort of took a deep breath of fear.
And this thing turned and walked into the darkness.
That's the only cryptid type thing we've got there, apart from seeing huge footprints on the motor vehicles when they'd come out to the vehicles on a night, yet no damage.
And the size of the footprints, we'd expect it had been almost like a bear, a Kodiak bear had walked over the top of your car.
So you know you would have severe sort of trauma to panels of your car.
So all of these things happened prior to the UFO landing.
And I've documented it from start to finish in the best way that I can.
And Unumb is just a fantastic case, you know, right to the point where the military were involved.
And each man in the compound, the night that it happened, found themselves looking down from the back of the compound with these huge roller shutter doors where you could drive a bus in or a big wagon at what they'd perceived As a 1960s, classic 1960s-shaped flying saucer in the bottom of the compound.
I mean, Andrew, who first told me about this, said it had to be a film set.
He says, It couldn't have been real.
And he still says that.
He says, I said, Well, how does it have to be a film set?
There was nobody there in 1998.
Just briefly, these guys had day jobs, apart from the boss.
David and Andrew had day jobs.
And on a night to supplement their income, they would come home from work, have something to eat, and then drive to Hummamby, where they would work on these high-end motor vehicles, spraying them and sign-writing them, and then go home.
Sometimes in the early hours of the morning, if it was the weekend, Friday, they might sleep over work till Saturday afternoon.
You know, that's why they were there late at night.
And he believed it.
He said it just didn't look real.
He said, I look down.
He says, and I'm looking into, I can see sparks and arcs of light flashing from this thing that's about as big as a flat bed trailer, you know, about 15, 20 foot long, round, and it's got a glass bubble on the top and this little being inside it, I could see it.
He said, and there's all a mist around it.
He says, it can't have been real, can it?
So he's telling me this story.
He said, and then I found myself walking to the front of the workshop and I opened the side door and soldiers grab hold of me or a soldier, dropped me to the floor, armed by the way, and told me to stay where I am.
And they're all telling a similar story.
David saw three of the beings.
He didn't see the heads.
He said they were very tall.
He said, and if they were in clothing, then it would have looked like it were a wetsuit.
It were that tight to their bodies, and they were very thin.
So, apologies, David said that their heads were unusually large.
And then the boss said he didn't see the head.
He just saw the tall, thin body.
So they're all telling a similar story, and they're all talking.
What's interesting, they're all talking about walking back through the unit to the front and getting accosted by soldiers and at gunpoint and told to stay still and not to move.
I mean, that's just a staggering dimension of the thing.
But none of them, Howard, remember being with each other.
That's a point that I don't think they've even discussed with each other.
So are we saying, sorry to jump in, but missing time here, possibly?
It's hard to say, Howard, but something happened because Andrew remembers stood at the doors looking at this thing, but he's no knowledge of being stood with the other two.
And it's the same for the other two.
Andrew does remember one of them walking down the compound to the object and disappearing.
If you've had that experience, Paul, I wonder if you've ever asked yourself on their behalf, how do you live with it?
I've never had, you know, I've seen a ghost.
I've had a couple of weird experiences in my life that I've recounted on the radio, but I've never had something like that.
How do you live with it?
It is difficult, isn't it?
And, you know, apparently, when all the poltergeist type activity was taking place, excuse me, they did tell people at first, but eventually they turned into the butt of other people's jokes, so they just kept it to themselves.
I mean, one example is he said we were sat in the front of a pickup truck discussing some work that we would be doing to this truck with the owner.
You know, quite a wide truck.
He said, and suddenly there's a loud crack on the side of the building.
It's come from nowhere.
Then there's another one.
And then, and they said, what's that?
And we just, we said, oh, that'll be the poltergeist.
And there's steel washers flying about inside the unit.
You know, another time, a car started on its own in the unit.
I think he said it were an MG Roadster.
And it's sort of shocked.
And there's three of them there.
And they're sort of looking at it.
And then the boss went and took the keys out and it carried on running, which is an impossibility, as we know.
So they got the auto electrician in to look at this car and told him what had happened.
And just like I've said, it's an impossibility.
That's what he said.
And they became the butt of people's jokes.
So they just clammed up about it.
I found out about this quite by chance.
There's a guy that I know quite well, Jim, who oversees a club, you know, the finances of a club.
And Andrew was there doing some painting work on it.
And he started telling them this story.
Unfortunately, Jim just went, oh, you're going to have to tell my friend Paul Sinclair.
Well, it's a small world because Andrew's son used to work with me also.
And this further strengthens just how credible this story is because David, his son, worked with me for years.
I'm not saying 10 years, for probably three or four years.
And he knew my interest in the unexplained.
And we talked about it, but he never mentioned his dad's sighting ever.
The cat went out of the bag when he told Jim the story, the ex-military guy.
And then Jim said, well, you're going to have to tell Paul.
And it was the turning point where he decided he'd tell me.
And from that moment, I went up and sat for several hours with Andrew.
And I have done since that, recording the story and getting as many details as I can.
And I've spoken to all three men individually during that time.
There's still more to be gathered from Hummumby.
I mean, on social media, I've put the word out asking if anybody remembers a military roadblock in 1998 because it was set up because one of the guys, David's mum and dad, used to come and visit on an evening, probably bring a few sandwiches and just spend a bit of time with their son, who youngest of the group.
And then they would drive back probably, I'm not going to say it time because I'm not sure, but probably between nine and ten o'clock at night, they'd drive back home to Bridlington.
But on the night that this happened, they drove home and they were stopped midway between Humanby and Bridlington.
Now, we think we know the road.
It's before you get to the bypass going into Bridlington.
It's no good me trying to explain in great detail without the road names, but and they were taken out of their motor vehicle, bundled into the back of black vehicles, black vans or a black van, and interrogated and shown information that told them that whoever they were speaking to knew everything about them, where they lived, I don't know how many children, they've got lots and lots of details, basically frightened them to death.
What an astonishing and terrifying story.
Listen, we're going to have to park it there for the radio show, so there will be an extended version of this conversation where I will talk with Paul for a little longer about other things.
That'll be on the podcast on a future edition very, very soon.
I think that's going to have to be it for the radio show, though, Paul.
So if people want to contact you, if they've heard this tonight and they've got new information about Wilshorpe or Hummambee or Bempton or anything, what do they do?
They can contact me direct and I will always reply.
So it's Paul Sinclair, I-L-F, at gmail.com or through the website, truthproof.uk.
And the books are available to buy through the website.
And when do you estimate that TP4 will be out?
I would think about seven days' time.
Okay, now we are recording this on Tuesday.
So in the coming week, this is airing on the 21st of November.
Start checking in that week and you might see Truth Proof 4.
And I'm sure you're going to be inundated with people wanting it, Paul.
Well done.
This conversation will continue on my podcast.
And so we pick up for the podcast for podcast listeners, Paul.
We haven't really got into the big cat sightings, but there are quite a few of those in the book.
But before we do them, what's the growling fang man of Fordon?
Yeah, that's an interesting one in itself.
There's a guy who found, who through the nature of his job finds himself around many farms and remote locations around Staxton, Forden, up around Bempton.
And he's had a few strange experiences.
And on one particular night, he's, again, Fordham Church.
Anybody who wants to Google this, there's a little...
And he's got a tiny church there, and he's parked again the church, quite late at night.
And he's with someone else in the car with him.
And there's a bit of movement outside.
And they look and they describe seeing an upright fur-covered creature.
When I say upright, bipedal, on two legs.
And obviously frightened them to death.
And they move away.
They drive away from the area.
I don't know how far, mile, two miles.
They see it again as well, which is strange.
But what they the actual crazy part of this sighting for me, if seen in bipedal fur-covered creature isn't crazy enough, is they said it had footwear on.
Really?
Yeah, and that is nuts.
We're very close to Staxton Wald here.
We're very close to the radar base here.
You know, within a mile of the radar base, a mile and a half tops.
And I don't know whether that's got any bearing on it, but you get a lot of these cryptid type reports around military installations.
And they've seen it several times.
And they're so intrigued that now, well, I wouldn't say now, but at the time, they were driving about actually looking for it.
But I think they'd seen it probably, they saw it twice in the same night, and then they'd seen it one more time.
So quite what that is, I don't know.
And I would love more people to come forward and maybe say, yes, we've seen something similar around that area.
Don't forget, listeners, that Forden is also a stone's throw away from Flixton.
You know, if you go to Staxton, then you're actually in Flixton.
We're only talking like a mile, a mile and a half between Fordon and Flixton and Staxton.
And we've got all these accounts of the Flixton werewolf that go back thousands of years.
We've got these reports of this strange bipedal creature.
So there's a strong possibility that what they saw at Forden is the same thing that people have reported seeing at Flixton.
I think it was 2019 on the A1039 road, which features in all the Flixton accounts because that's the only road running through Flixton.
But two sisters were driving home and they're just past Whitegate Hill and they're just driving towards Muston, still on the A1039 road.
And a creature, literally, in their words, leapt into the middle of the road.
So you've got this freeze frame of gathering as much information as you can in probably what's less than two seconds, a second, and then leapt again to the other side of the hedgerow and it had gone.
And they described it as looking like something akin to what people see when they watch the Harry Potter film, the werewolf type thing there.
And I do realize that these reports must be hard for people to get their head around.
I'm a grown man, 59-year-old, and I'm talking about things like this and talking about it with some belief.
And it makes you think, doesn't it, Paul, that if some people talk to you about these things, we know because of human nature.
An awful lot of people will have experienced these things.
They've either written them off in their own heads as being nothing much, or they just don't want to talk about them.
So I think you're only scratching the surface.
I absolutely agree with you.
For every sighting that you manage to prize out of someone, because that's the other key ingredient to the validity of many of these sightings.
Most people, they don't really want to talk about it.
They're not emailing me With, I've got something fabulous to tell you.
I usually find out, like I found out about the square of gold light over Bempton indirectly, and I'll have to chip away at my friend now to get this person.
I'm going to say person, I don't want to say man or woman because I don't think it's fair at this stage.
Plus, from what I've been told, I know they can be identified from where they were and people would know them.
They've not done anything wrong, by the way.
It's just that, you know, they might want their anonymity.
But you've just got to respect so many people's privacy and potential ridicule factor because it's just so far out of the comfort zone.
Like I said earlier, there's just not a place in most people's heads for what we're talking about unless you've seen and experienced it.
Or, as a researcher, not seen and experienced it, but taken so many accounts and looked on the internet or read so many accounts.
It's been denied out of existence at the moment because whatever it is does exist.
The mainstream are denying these things out of existence, but for what reason?
When you look at the huge volume of witness testimony that's out there, it is, as the subtitle of this next book says, beyond reasonable doubt.
And when you talk about big cats, there are so many sightings, not only from your own area, but also from around this country.
You know, you probably know Rick Minter from Big Cat Conversations.
He's a regular guest on the show.
He's in Gloucestershire and takes in reports from just about everywhere.
But, you know, you've got reports in the book, The Bempton Panthers.
There was Eddie the taxi driver in 2018 seeing, quotes, a jet black cat with a long body, thicker, longer tail than a domestic cat.
And so it goes.
Yeah, that was at Skullby.
Once again, that was where we talked about Gaz Gray having this experience earlier in your show.
And this was at Skolby, not on the edge of the cliffs, further inland, but obviously the same area.
And he's coming home late at night.
And he sees this thing whilst he's driving.
There's another guy who, a friend of ours who comes in the forest with us, a very good friend, Chris Wright.
He told one of his friends what he's in, but getting involved in and looking into.
And he won about the black cats.
And he got laughed at.
And then he's contacted him.
He says, we've seen one at, oh, gosh, where is it?
Hackness.
It ran across the road in front of the car.
And he said, my wife said, did I see what I think I just saw?
And then to make it even better, it ran back the other way.
So they both got another view of it.
So these cats are out there, you know, and I mean, that's not an impossibility, is it, Howard?
And who's to say that, you know, they're not escapees that have bred, you know, from the 1970s?
Because I think we'd be naive if we thought that in 1976, when the Wildlife Act came in, that these animals would still be alive.
They would have to be breeding population of them.
And it's however sparse.
There's overwhelming evidence that there could be 250, maybe more of these cats around the country.
Certainly, if you listen to what Rick Minter has to say about this, and that's all he does research things.
Yeah, well, more power to Rick Minter, you know, I mean, he's a credit to what he's doing.
I don't know the guy very well, but I have seen what he does and the information that he sort of gathers.
You know, I think it was 2020, and there's a guy driving, he's driving towards Whitby and he's just passed.
You'll have to forgive me, people, if I get the name of the pub wrong.
I think it was the Falcon Pub on a remote road in Whitby.
And I may have told you this story before, but it's still a strange one.
And a car, he's on a motorbike, and a car flashed him as he's driving.
He's thinking, I haven't done it wrong.
What's he doing that for?
He says, and I just went down this hill and come around a corner.
He says, and there's two huge wolves sat at the side of the road.
Upright, just sat.
Wolves.
Wolves.
He said, this guy, I haven't filmed him yet, and I haven't actually used a voice recorder, but he was quite happy for me to say his name and everything.
And he operates the Dredger in the harbour at Whitby and various other places.
And he talked to me, I've spoke to him on phone several occasions since it happened, because there's a strange element to it.
He said they weren't dogs.
He says they weren't huskies.
We know wolves are dogs, so I'm not trying to contradict myself here, but yeah.
They were wolves.
They were huge grey wolves.
He said, but the most unnerving thing about these animals is as I passed them on my motorbike, they smiled at me.
Wow.
Smiled.
And that was his words.
We know that a dog can bear its teeth and sort of look a bit smiley or grimacing.
But that were his words.
He said it was so strange.
It's a very specific word to use, isn't it?
They smiled at me.
You see, that was the word that sort of intrigued me.
And not only the fact, we also have to understand that at half past five, six in morning, let's assume that they were huge husky type dogs.
Why would they be sat at side at road?
And so if we are to go with the theory that these were wolves, genuine wolves, then we've got them operating in the forests and the areas of North Yorkshire.
Paul, listen, I'm going to give you a break now because you've done very well.
My listener didn't know this at the beginning, but Paul's got a bit of a cold and he's having trouble with his voice.
And I think you need to be resting your voice.
Is there anything else you want to tell me about before we park it for this time?
No, it's all good, Howard.
And as usual, I've really enjoyed speaking to you.
I just hope that the listeners have enjoyed what we've spoken about.
Well, you know, as we say in the UK, you're a real trooper for doing the show with a bad throat.
I hope you feel much better.
I'm guessing we're not going to be speaking until the new year now.
Just quickly, Truth Proof 4 is about to be out.
Is there going to be a Truth Proof 5?
Are you working on that already?
What I Can say is I'm gathering information as it comes in, and I put them all in separate Word documents and write them up, but I've no plans for another one just yet.
No, no, you need to, we talked about this before.
I think it's vital, and I mean this for myself as well because I don't get anything in the way of breaks, but you've worked at this virtually 24-7-365 for the last five years or more, actually more than that.
And I think, you know, maybe you do need to be taking a break and then maybe coming back with something else.
Yeah?
Agreed.
I do agree.
Thank you, Howard.
It's important on a human level, I think, Paul.
Thank you for helping me, Paul.
Your success is absolutely deserved.
And I'm delighted that it's going so well for you.
Just to remind people here on the podcast, if they want to contact you, maybe with a story, they want clarification on something, whatever, where do they go?
Contact me, Paul Sinclair, ilf at gmail.com, or contact the website, truthproof.uk.
And I will always try and reply, no matter what.
You know, it doesn't have to be information.
If you just want a bit of advice, if I can help, I will.
And the book, Truth Proof 4, Beyond Reasonable Doubt, is going to be out before the end of November.
I think if you have somebody who's interested in these things in your family, it would make a fantastic Christmas present.
There, I've said it.
Fingers crossed, it will be out towards the end of November, yes.
And it's available on the Truth Proof website.
Good man.
Paul Sinclair, great friend of this show, regular guest and amazing researcher.
We're out of time.
Thank you very much for being part of this.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained Online, an extended version there of the radio conversation with Paul Sinclair that you would have heard on the 21st of November.
Until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained.
And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm.
And above all, you know if.
Please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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