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Nov. 1, 2021 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:01:34
Edition 586 - Caz Clarke

Witness and author Caz Clarke has experienced what she believes, and others believe, was a chilling and extraordinary UFO encounter or "chase" at Pentyrch in West Wales - this is her story....

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Across the UK, across continental North America, and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast.
My name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Well, I'm hoping I'm not sounding at the moment too much like a man who's had two hours' sleep, because I am a man who's had two hours' sleep.
I'm recording this on the morning after my radio show, and I don't know what it is, but like a lot of these things, I tend not to sleep very well after the radio show.
But the story that I'm about to unfold to you is too important not to leave any longer.
It is potentially and has been described as the United Kingdom, certainly Wales is Roswell.
You know, I think it would be competing in the United Kingdom sense, of course, with Rendlesham Forest.
But these events that unfolded in South Wales are extraordinary, and they happened not 40 years ago, not 47 years ago, or 77 years ago, or whatever.
These events unfolded five years ago and haven't really been reported to the extent that something of this magnitude you would have expected would be.
And I'm going to try and work out during the next hour why that might be.
So we're talking here about the Penturk UFO incident.
It is a small area of South Wales near a place called Clantrissant, which is known for being the place where they make coins for the United Kingdom and other countries, the Royal Mint.
And it is an area, like many other areas in this United Kingdom.
It is a variety of urban and very rural.
And obviously, because it's Wales, I have a very soft spot for it because it is the land of my forefathers.
But that's a whole other instance, a whole other issue.
So we're going to get stuck into this story with the principal witness.
She's taken a bit of tracking down.
I'm delighted that we've got Kaz Clark on this edition of The Unexplained.
You are going to be astonished, I think, by the details that you hear.
Just one thing though, before we get into this.
I've had a couple of interesting emails recently that caused me to pause for thought, one of which came from somebody telling me that my shows are getting worse and the quality of guests is going down.
And that came from a person who was angry at one guest and felt that he had to write that after being made angry by one guest.
And he subsequently kindly retracted those words and told me to disregard them.
But I think it is important that in this world of ours, we have to try and be nice, I think, to each other.
Because these are hard times.
And, you know, if we're not nice to each other, who's going to be nice to us?
I guess is the point here.
It's terribly easy, isn't it, to be angry at something that you hear or see or read and want to fire off a reaction immediately, maybe to the wrong person.
So, you know, I'm not preaching here, but that's just the one thing I would say about that.
It's gone and it's past.
And then another email that came in from a gentleman in the US who accused me essentially of endorsing the Sherry Markson book about Wuhan and agreeing with all of it.
That, if you listen carefully to it, is not what I said.
Anybody who thinks that that's what I was doing, I'm sorry, that's not what I was doing.
I did think the book was incredibly well written.
It is.
That's an objective judgment on my part as a journalist.
And I did think questions have to be asked.
And I'm not saying whether the answers that were come up with in that book were the correct ones.
That's not for me to say.
But I was impressed by it, and I was impressed by Sherry Markson's ability to actually get an interview with Donald Trump, just as I would have been impressed by her ability as a journalist to get an interview with Barack Obama or George W. Bush or whoever, or Bill Clinton.
Okay, that's that.
Thank you to Adam for his work on this show.
And thank you very much to you for your ongoing participation in it and all the support that you've given me over such a long time.
We are about to hear the most remarkable of stories.
And I hope I'm going to do it justice, the Pinperk UFO case from 2016 in Wales.
It needs more exposition than it's had up to now.
Maybe I can help in doing that.
Kaz Clark is online to us now.
Kaz, thank you very much for coming on.
Thank you very much for having me.
These events, Kaz, are astonishing.
They don't get talked about as much as I would have thought they would.
And they've changed your life, it seems.
They've changed my life completely, yes.
I certainly didn't expect to see what I saw that night.
And you say, I'm sorry to jump in.
You say that, because I think this is an important part of the story.
It's not that you wanted to be associated with this story as the principal witness and known all around the world for it.
This came to you, didn't it?
You were interviewed.
And I think also your name was revealed by a UFO group.
Yes, that's right.
I didn't want to come forward at all.
I gave the story to a small UFO group that said that they wanted the story for their records for sightings in Wales and assured me of my anonymity and my safety.
And that's not what happened at all.
It is an astonishing story to live with, especially if you're doing that alone.
But I know that other people witnessed this.
And as part of this story, I want to just talk about some of the other witnesses too.
But let's just, for my listener here who may never have heard about this, and many of my listeners have been asking me to talk about this for a long time, the main elements of this story seem to be a lot of large and complex military aircraft in a small area.
One, possibly two explosions, measured and felt, even shaking a hospital.
Bizarre light formations, odd craft, electromagnetic anomalies, strange effects on you, a witness, denial of data to you after freedom of information requests, an experience that turned your hair white overnight, an area, I think two areas of forest having to be quickly replaced.
And as I said, many people who actually reported these events maybe were woken up by them and didn't know what they were.
Is that a fair summation?
Absolutely it is.
Yes.
The explosions were so powerful, the kinetic wave from those explosions, which was an air explosion initially, set car alarms off in the neighbouring villages.
So, not just but in the neighbouring villages.
And an Apache helicopter had to do an emergency landing just moments after the explosion at Cardiff International Airport, which is a civilian airport where you wouldn't expect to see an Apache helicopter.
These events happened not just over one night, did they?
There was a prelude to them.
That's right.
We had two reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft over Penturk.
They would fly for eight hours, and then another one would come and take its place, and the first one would leave.
And this went on for three days and three nights continuously.
They didn't actually leave the sky unwatched for a single minute.
And we'd contacted the Ministry of Defence, myself and my neighbours, to find out what was going on because no exercises were listed and no no-turns were posted.
So nobody had an idea that there was anything going to be happening.
There was an exercise on, wasn't there?
Was it called Chameleon or something like that?
Exercise Chameleon was listed for Durham in the north of England, 310 miles away for the week before the incident.
There was no listing for South Wales at all.
There was no listing for low-level flying at all.
And certainly not in the early hours of the morning over a residential area.
Okay.
Just give me the dates of this because I don't think we've actually specifically said them.
Okay.
Well, what for exercise chameleon?
No, for the events that you're part of.
Okay, well, it started for me on Tuesday, the 23rd of February, 2016, when I noticed the very small grey twin propeller plane flying very low and very slow over our village.
And we have military aircraft pass through quite regularly because we have RAF St. Athen not far away, about 14 miles away, but they never stop.
And for the first day, I didn't really pay it any mind or any attention.
It was the next day on Wednesday, the 24th, when one of my neighbours came out of his house and he was cursing because this small propeller plane had kept him awake all night.
And it was then that we started to notice the behaviour of these aircraft.
And it wasn't long before another plane, almost identical to the first, would turn up and take the place of the first plane.
And it would continue the same flight pattern, very slow.
And I just remembered thinking to myself, it costs an awful lot of money to keep a plane up for 24 hours a day for no particular reason, having no particular place to go.
And as I say, we contacted the Ministry of Defense.
We also contacted Wells Online, which is our local mainstream news, because if it was an exercise, they would have known.
And they too didn't know anything.
That's extraordinary.
I would have thought your local media, if something that big involving that many aircraft was happening in an area, then I think the MOD have to let the local media know and they have to let you know.
They have to let everybody know and they certainly would have to tell anybody that lived in that area what was going on.
And nobody knew anything.
And as I say, there was no exercise listed for this area and no no-towns were posted for those aircraft to this date, to this date.
And some of those aircraft are not, I mean, what do I know about military matters?
Virtually nothing.
But, you know, some of those aircraft, for example, the helicopters you talk of, these are not just light military helicopters that maybe drop troops or equipment and then they're off.
We're talking about heavy duty helicopters, aren't we?
Yes, they came later.
Once the event had started, they actually brought down helicopters, C-130s, C-17s, to St. Athen earlier in the day, but they didn't post a notam until nine o'clock that night, just a few hours before this thing appeared.
And it was at the moment that these things, this huge craft appeared, that everything went into full swing, shall we say, and all of the helicopters were launched.
And we're talking Apache helicopters, Lynx helicopters, Merlin helicopters.
They had 20 military helicopter gunships in the air, all at the same time.
Combine that with C-130s and C-17s, two E-3 Sentry or AWAX planes, one of which was from NATO and all at the same time over this very small village.
Well, look, military activity in South Wales generally is not exactly unusual.
I can remember being a little kid and being near Abergavenny, I think, and seeing low-flying military jets there.
And certainly just north of you in mid-Wales, there's an awful lot of activity.
So we're not saying that military activity per se is completely unknown in that area.
But what we are saying is that the scale of this over such a period is highly unusual.
Indeed.
And of course, Sunnybridge is about 40 miles away from us, which is Ministry of Defence land.
So if they wanted to do such an exercise in the early hours of the morning, then they'd be quite welcome to do so on their own land, especially if they're letting off explosives where they wouldn't have disturbed anybody.
But to do it over a residential area in the early hours of the morning next to a hospital is unheard of.
Well, I would think it absolutely is.
And, you know, the report, one report that I've seen is that the windows of a local hospital shook.
The hospital was shaken allegedly to its foundations.
So, I mean, that's highly irregular.
Before we talk about your crucial part in this, in the experience of this, just tell me a little bit about you.
I mean, are you somebody who was into ufology?
Were you a sci-fi fan?
Were you into these things beforehand?
Not in a big way, no.
Somebody once shared, I think, the disclosure project with me about 20 years ago.
And I think I watched it along with about 3 million other people.
But, you know, I've watched ET and close encounters of the third kind too, but it never compelled me to go out and join a UFO group.
You know, it was never an interest of mine.
So this came into your life, wasn't something you were looking for, and it wasn't an interest particularly.
No, no, it wasn't.
In fact, I had no idea what was going to happen.
In fact, one of my neighbours actually thought that they were watching for Russian aircraft.
And I know that sounds outrageous, but it was only the week before that our RAF had turned away two Russian Tu-160 bombers, Russian bombers from our airspace.
So I think he thought that perhaps they were watching for other military aircraft, hostile aircraft.
But we certainly didn't expect to see what we saw.
I've got to say, I was a student in South Wales for a year.
It's not the kind of stuff that happens, but that's just my story.
Okay, talk to me about what happened to you, what you observed.
Oh, my goodness.
Well, David, who is one of my neighbours, we weren't friends before this happened.
He was just a neighbour in my street.
We're quite friendly now.
Decided that we, well, we all decided that we would watch with them because clearly we weren't getting any answers from the authorities as to what was going on.
And by the third day, it was quite clear that they were watching for something.
So we decided that we would go out and watch with them.
So I'd lit the fire pit in my back garden and we stood and we watched this small grey aircraft, ZZ-418, which is a beachcraft aircraft, a Shadow R1, an above top secret aircraft flying very low over my house.
And it would come over my house roughly every 15 minutes.
How were you able to identify it so clearly?
So quickly, you know, so easily?
I mean, if I saw a plane, I get helicopters, big military ones flying over where I live.
I couldn't tell you what they are.
Right.
Well, since I had no idea either at the time, to be honest with you, unless it was a Cessna, I probably couldn't have told you what the aircraft were.
But since the event, there's been a huge investigation, which is still ongoing, headed by a man called Gary Jones, who's a UFO investigator.
And he's compiled the military timeline for that night and for the preceding days.
And we have all of the core signs and tell numbers for all of the aircraft involved that night.
So we know what the aircraft were from his investigation.
Okay, so there is a lot of activity.
You and your neighbor know about it.
You're trying to get some answers and you're not getting them.
Well, initially, it was just the one aircraft each time, the small grey twin propeller plane.
But keeping it a constant wreck-y.
Yes, absolutely.
So we'd gone out to watch to see what they were looking for or watching for.
And it got to about 2 a.m. on Friday, the 26th of February, 2016.
And to be honest with you, I was quite bored of watching this small aircraft.
It was freezing cold.
This is winter.
So I decided that was it.
I was going to go in.
It was getting late.
And I just got to the back door of my house and I heard what sounded like a missile coming.
And I ran back to the back of my garden where David still stood.
And I watched as this huge plane went over the top of us.
I had no idea what it was at the time until it banked to the left-hand side.
Now, we have almost a full moon that night.
And as it banked around to the left, you could see this huge mushroom-shaped object on its back.
And David exclaimed, that's an E3 sentry plane.
Well, that meant absolutely nothing to me at the time.
But because this aircraft had turned up, we decided that we'd watch a little longer.
And this E3 started to circle, not small circles.
Is an E3 like what we used to call, I think they called them AWACS, weren't they?
You know, they've got that mushroom dome thing for radar surveillance on the top.
Yes, it was a NATO E3 plane.
NATO?
From NATO.
This plane started to circle and it took a few minutes for it to go around just once.
Seven times this plane went around and we thought that perhaps it was taxiing for the airport.
But the only airport large enough to accommodate a plane of that size would have been Cardiff International Airport where you wouldn't expect to see any three-sentry plane.
On the seventh time it went around, one red light became visible high above the trees behind my house.
And I have nothing behind my house except for farmland that ebbs away from you.
Excuse me.
So we ran to the five bar gate that overlooks the farmland, which is literally 30 seconds away from my home, to get an unobstructed view as to what was going on.
And one red light turned into three red lights that turned out to be the very pinnacle of a huge pyramid craft.
This was happening approximately 200 yards away from us, above the tree line that borders the next field.
It had red lights all the way around its perimeter, but the leading set of six red lights on the leading edge that was closest to us were brighter than the rest, as if it was some kind of steering mechanism for this craft.
And it came in to our dimension.
This thing didn't come down from outer space.
This thing emerged through the space, like it came through a black veil or came through fog that wasn't there, you know.
So also it wasn't misty or cloudy.
It didn't come through.
No, it was completely clear, clear sky.
The E3 Sentry by this time now is still above us, and this is doing an oval flight pattern above us.
I could see other aircraft, maybe 14, 15 miles out, also circling large aircraft.
I couldn't tell you what they were, but they were definitely military because they had the red strobe underneath of them.
Anyway, this pyramid came in point first.
And as it came in, once it was fully here, it was turning very, very slowly anti-clockwise.
And as it did so, it came down in a pendulum motion.
And it righted itself in the upright position.
And once it was in the upright position, it fired this green object out of the top of it so fast like it had been fired out of a cannon.
And it was really bright.
And it's moved across the green object, has moved across to my left-hand side and above a thicket of trees, possibly 100 feet away from me and maybe 100 feet up.
Do you think that it was firing some kind of missile, projectile, weapon?
No, this craft, I don't know what shape it was because it was so bright.
It was brighter than the moonlight and it actually hurt my eyes to look at it.
Just rocked gently backwards and forwards, staying in the one place.
Now, that was interesting when you said that, and I've read your accounts of this, so I'm aware of you saying that.
I thought, but again, what do I know?
Well, the answer to that is not very much.
You know, sometimes in military exercises, they sling things like, I don't know, jeeps, you know, Land Rovers and other military hardware, big guns and stuff like that.
They sling them under a couple of helicopters, don't they, or a helicopter to carry them.
And I wondered whether that triangular formation might have been something like that.
No, this thing was a solid craft.
And when you say it was a solid, let's be very clear, because your descriptions that I've read of this are very clear.
What precisely do you believe you saw?
I saw a three-sided pyramid that jettisoned smaller craft.
And the military were waiting for it.
What were you feeling?
I just stood in shock and complete awe of what I was witnessing.
I didn't believe myself what I was seeing, but it was there.
As this pyramid jettisoned not only the first green object, which I now believe to be some kind of decoy, but it was still turning very slowly, anti-clockwise and away from us.
And I said, I stood on the five-bar gate to get a better look through the bare trees.
And I said to David, it's landing, it's landing, thinking it was coming down.
And in actual fact, the ground there rises to the north because that's the foot of the Garf Mountain and the land itself was coming up to meet it.
And as it neared the ground, it ejected, as I described, a hand of lightning.
Now, this wasn't thin lightning that we have here.
This was thick like fingers and fire coloured.
And the whole craft lit up really, really brightly.
And the lights closest to the ground were the brightest of them all.
They turned to this from taillight red to this bright white orange.
And around the brightest lights, you could see the texture of the craft.
And it was a solid craft.
It was as if it was made of stone.
That's the only way to describe it.
Like it was textured somehow.
But I don't know because I didn't touch it, but that's what I could see.
Can I just ask, Kaz, are you typing on a keyboard or something at the moment?
I'm sorry, it's my dog running around.
That's absolutely fine.
He's got every right to.
Give him mine love.
What's his name?
Her name is Daisy.
Oh, Daisy.
Okay.
Well, she's a little sweetheart.
I think she's entitled to that.
Okay, so here you are.
Big triangular craft.
Now, very importantly, as you tell me, you were not alone.
The person who was with you, David, saw things that you didn't see.
That's right.
Whilst I was staring at the bottom, and don't ask me why I was fixated on it touching the ground, but I was for some reason.
He was looking at the top and search was the size of it.
Whilst I was looking at the bottom, you couldn't see the top in your peripheral vision.
And he said he saw 15 or 20, he described as orbs come out of the top of this pyramid that seemed to just stay around the very top, dancing and mingling with each other.
That's how he described it.
They were red and green, and some of them faded to black.
Others stayed red and others stayed green.
I didn't see any of those.
And I could tell you that I did, but I genuinely didn't.
I heard two military planes coming, but I now know to be two big C-17s.
They had two engines on each wing, and they were flying wingtip to wingtip, very low, and they'd come over the top of me.
And I've looked up just to watch them go across and in front of me.
And once I looked back, I couldn't see the pyramid anymore.
But that's not to say it wasn't there.
I just couldn't see it, like it switched its lights off.
We had two C-130s, big Hercules aircraft, come from my left-hand side, and they too have turned and gone back in behind the two C-17s.
So you had two C-17s in close flying wingtip to wingtip, and the two C-130s took the outside wide positions.
And the green object, the first green object that was fired out, had moved in a completely straight line and really quickly across and in front of the four aircraft.
And this green object has fired three really bright strobes at the aircraft.
And the aircraft started to follow it.
And I do believe that if it really wanted to, it could have outrun those aircraft easily at the speed in which it could travel.
But it seemed to get excited somehow and it started skipping and bobbing, skipping and bobbing.
And I described like Winnie the Pooh off Tigger, Tigger off Winnie the Pooh, you know, just skipping away and in front of these aircraft in an attempt to get these aircraft to follow it.
I believe it was a deliberate decoy to draw those aircraft away from the pyramid and the load that it had jettisoned.
And I watched it until I couldn't see it anymore, but it was so bright it bathed all of the aircraft in this green light and you could see all the outline of the wings and the fuselages and the engines as these four aircraft followed this green object towards Flantrissant.
After it had gone, the E3 Sentry was still above us.
We were approached by two of these barrel-shaped objects.
And if David hadn't seen them come out at the top, I wouldn't have known where they came from.
They were both red in colour, about 10 feet tall, about six feet wide.
They were completely silent.
They were completely smooth on the outside, as if they were made of glass, but I don't know because I didn't touch them.
So were these things...
Is that what you were seeing?
They were more rounded than that, more smooth.
I think there's quite a good artistic impression on the front of my book that shows the actual shape of them.
But yes, they were not so squared off as a barrel, maybe, but more oval and then black caps on the top and on the bottom.
But these things didn't make any noise whatsoever.
They didn't have any downdraft or other form of energy around them at all.
Not much in the way of noise.
Nothing, absolutely nothing.
And they were, as I say, both taillight red in colour.
One moved across to my left-hand side and stopped above the hedge, maybe 20, 30 feet away and 20 to 30 feet up.
If that, I haven't actually gone out there with a tape measure to measure the exact distance.
And I stared at it just for a few seconds because I wanted the details.
I wanted to see.
And all the insides were moving.
I described like white noise on a TV screen, but it was more than that.
It was turning in on itself like a cake mix, like it was alive somehow.
And then I looked to see where the other one was and that hadn't stopped.
And by that time, it was right above the oak tree, right above me.
And the only thing that I could think to do was wave.
And that had to be the universal symbol for, hello, and I don't mean you any harm.
And the one above me changed colour from tail light red to traffic light green.
And I could see even clearer the insides moving.
And I felt it scan me.
It was the only thing that I couldn't be tested for.
Scan you?
Yes.
I felt like something had reached in and took the fear away from me.
Like a physical touch.
It was the most bizarre, euphoric feeling I've ever had in my life.
Some people who've had encounters of this kind in the reports, not only in this country, in America, other places, have reported when having encounters like this, they become aware of something or they get a download of information or, you know, there's some connection there.
Apart from the scan and feeling calmer about it, did anything like that happen?
I was asked this question before.
Did I have any hieroglyphs or binary code?
But the only thing I did have was a spoken word.
Tell the world what you witnessed here.
That's big and portentous.
What did that make you think?
I said, I will.
Those words came out of my mouth.
I will.
But once I realized afterwards, you know, that when everything had sunk in, I was too afraid to do anything, to be honest.
It took me 20 months to come to terms with what they'd asked me to do.
Now, if there was some kind of operation involving this weird craft ongoing there, it doesn't sound like it was any kind of confrontation that we were seeing.
Again, we've seen in history sometimes where military jets have been scrambled, like for example, over Washington, D.C. in the 50s, they scrambled military planes to check them out and to engage them if necessary.
That doesn't seem to be the atmosphere, the feeling, the sense of any of this, because there are not planes like that for a start off.
But it's not working that way, is it?
No, no.
The military had set a ring of helicopters and aircraft all the way around us.
And these objects, the green object had moved away to my right-hand side above the rooftops of the houses.
And the red object that had remained red and remained sentry the whole time moved away to my left-hand side and low across the fields and faded to black.
And I don't know if it was just because I couldn't see it anymore or if it had turned its light off.
I don't know.
But we have other witnesses, as you're probably aware, in Colwinstone, that have a video and photographs of these objects.
This pyramid flew over his house.
One of the green objects had tried to hide in the field next to his house and the helicopters were sweeping left and right across the fields, searching for it.
And once they were almost upon it, this green object has popped up and then skipped towards Lantrescent in an attempt to get away from the helicopters.
But it didn't seem to matter in what direction they'd gone.
They were all herded together by the military.
We have a witness in Tompentra that saw one of the green objects being pushed back down the valley towards Lantrescent.
We have witnesses in Betwis in Bridgend that saw a cluster of green objects being pursued by military helicopters and jets heading west.
But the big one was over Clantrescent Common, which is where we now believe the military fired upon the bright green object, the first object that drew the aircraft away that crashed into Smilog Woods.
The military did a meticulous metal search on the common that night in the early hours between 3 a.m. and 4.30 a.m.
How do you know that?
We'd gone to Cluncherson Common the same morning, later that morning, and all of the scrap metal that had been on the common had been picked up.
So there were bits of old car and fridges and, you know, just stuff that had been on the common for years, tens of years, had been neatly stacked up and placed along the roadside.
And we subjected the Ministry of Defence to a freedom of information request and asked why they conducted a meticulous metal search in the early hours of the morning over Clantreson Common next to the hospital.
And we had a section 26, not in the public interest, response to that.
Okay.
Well, I mean, that might have been because this was part of some kind of military exercise, the like of which, as ordinary people, we don't understand.
Or it may, as I know you would suggest, be something completely different from that.
I mean, it kind of sounds like there was some very comprehensive and successful attempt made to clean it up.
We believe that they were picking up parts of the missile they fired.
The smoke was so dense from the explosion in the air that it resembled a foggy night.
The smoke was so dense, it came in through the vents and through the windows into the corridor and filled the corridors of the hospital with smoke.
This was not a small explosion.
This shook people awake in their homes.
This is interesting.
I mean, the media, I mean, the broadcast media.
If this affects a hospital, if there's smoke in a hospital, that kind of stuff normally gets onto the TV, you know, to BBC Wales or what used to be HTV.
Right.
Well, the Military of Defence's explanation for the explosion was that it was a simulated munition.
Well, one, you can't place a simulated munition in the air.
And secondly, a simulated munition has absolutely no kinetic energy.
It'll only be able to shake people's homes and to set off car alarms in neighboring villages and to register on the Richter scale 40 miles away in Monmouthshire.
It's interesting.
It just intrigues me because if it was a simulated thing and that had happened as a result of it, affecting people that it probably shouldn't have affected, well, it shouldn't have affected, then that would have made the news.
You know, I'm sure that would have made the front pages of newspapers and been on television and radio.
It should have.
Absolutely.
It should have.
But it didn't.
And it's not because, as a group of people, you weren't calling them and telling them.
No, it was because they'd already come up with their cover story, which was to say that it was a military exercise, but this was in no shape or form a military exercise.
So you're saying you think that the media bought the explanation that this was something of a military exercise and there was nothing to see here?
Listen, by 3.39 a.m. that morning, Wells Online had no idea what was going on.
And we know this from their comments because members of the public had commented to Wells Online about the explosions, about being worried about their livestock, about being woken in the middle of the night and their young children being woken in the middle of the night.
Okay, so Wells Online were still working on a story about this.
They had no idea.
Okay, so we know that there was some media connection with this, but the big broadcast media weren't part of this.
Talk to me then about the...
Whether one explosion, was there one explosion or two that were registered by witnesses?
Okay, the first one was an air explosion and the second one sounded like something had hit the ground in Smilog Woods, which was our next point to try.
I wanted to go out and find the impact crater.
I wanted to know what had happened to this green object.
So we went to Smilog Woods and because I knew the trajectory of the green object, I knew roughly where to start looking because Smilog Woods is enormous.
And it wasn't long before we found the debris trail.
And all of the trees had been snapped in half, mid-trunk.
These are 60-foot trees in a forestry.
And these trees seem to be distended somehow, like they've tried to explode from the inside out.
And all of the canopies of the trees were out.
The further you went into the woods, the bigger the branches and the tree trunks got, the bigger the jaybrew trail, if you like.
And it was quite hard going trying to get through the woodland because it's all uphill on a mountain.
And so we decided that we'd go back and tell the others what we'd found.
And we actually hatched a plan to go back on Sunday, Saturday morning, I think it was, to go up there with cameras and to follow the stabry trail through to its end and find the impact crater, which is what we did.
And we filmed it and photographed it.
And we did actually find an impact area, although I don't think this green object actually hit the ground.
I think it wedged itself in the trees, which was its final resting place, if you like, because for every tree that it hit, it slowed down.
Okay, so if it was wedged in the trees and wasn't there when you went to look, that might indicate, if you follow that train of thought, that might indicate that you believe somebody took something away.
Yes, the Chinook helicopters, and there were three of them, made multiple trips backwards and forwards to Smilog Woods in the early hours of the morning, flying from Smilog Woods across Ponty Clean back to St. Athen.
They did this over and over again, and they were escorted this time by two Apache helicopters because the third one had been incapacitated moments after the explosion.
We believe they took something from Smilog Woods and took it back to RAF St. Athen.
The scrape marks and burn marks on the trees would certainly indicate that something was pulled very heavy, was pulled upwards against those trees.
Some of the bark, there were two foot by one foot wounds on the outside of the trees that were left standing, and living wood had curled outwards towards you, implying something very big and very heavy had been scraped upwards against those trees.
The burn marks on the surrounding trees were white, they were not black, and there Was quite a pungent sulphur smell in that area, like a chemical smell.
Something that I can't quite, it wasn't fireworks and it wasn't sulphur, but it was a little bit like burning rubber, but it wasn't that either.
I can't quite describe to you what that smell was.
But the odd thing was, is it was snowing not only at the crash site, but also in the entry field and nowhere else.
The sky was blue, the sun was shining, there was no weather conditions that would imply that we would even get snow, but it was snowing in these two locations.
Now, you talk about snow, but I know you say that it's not like snow that we would know.
And the one thing I thought was maybe, you know, it might have been something like, you know, that stuff they use at airports to fight fires, which is a kind of foam?
Do you think that what was there swirling around might have been that?
No, this was falling from the sky and it did eventually melt, if you like, but it was, it had a bit more resistance or texture to it than ordinary snow.
It was snow, but it wasn't like we would envisage snow to be.
Did it melt like snow?
Eventually.
So you couldn't take any of it home?
I didn't think to take any of it home.
I didn't know there was going to be a big investigation.
I only went out because of my own curiosity.
You say that your hair turned white.
Yes, it did.
Was that because of this snow material or something else?
I don't know.
It could have been the shock.
It could have been receiving high doses of electromagnetic radiation.
I don't know.
I just know that on the following morning, my hair had turned completely white overnight.
That is astonishing.
Did you feel?
I mean, we hear people being, you know, involved in near accidents or terrifying experiences and they say their hair turns white.
Were you that shocked?
Were you really that impacted by all of this?
I didn't realize how impacted I was by it all.
So it was a trauma, big trauma?
Yes, because it changed everything.
It was only later that I realized that I had post-traumatic stress.
I didn't know because it was happening to me.
And I think it was when I eventually challenged the cleanup crew that came here, sent by the military, who came covertly and gave multiple stories as to who they were and what they were doing.
Are you saying that you were visited by men in black?
Well, they weren't men in black.
Metaphorically.
The military came here.
We know they're military now.
Even though the first story that they gave was that they were a fracking survey team, and that didn't go down at all well in the village.
The next story that they gave was that they were Vodafone doing field research.
And I only learned that they were here at all through my local Penturk hub.
And because of the differing stories, I wanted to go out and see for myself who these people were and what they were doing.
And a friend of mine had come over and we'd walked over to the gate to take my little dog for a walk.
And once we got to the gate, there were two soldiers there wearing full digital camouflage and carrying guns.
And these guns did not have yellow caps in the end of them, implying they were carrying blanks.
In fact, these guns didn't look like they'd been dragged around on exercise anywhere.
They looked brand new, like they'd been stripped and polished that morning.
And did you say to them, as I think I might have, you know, good morning, what are you doing here?
Well, I asked what they were doing, and they said that they were doing a military exercise in case of an emergency situation if we saw anything funny going on in the fields.
If you saw anything funny going on?
Yes.
Those are the exact words.
And that came across in a very Etonian, educated, middle-class English accent.
Now, if anything like that happened to me, and I lived in Wales, I would talk to a local councillor, I would go to my member of the UK Parliament, I would talk to my member of the Welsh Assembly.
Did you?
We have tried.
I have spoken to some SMPs, and they would like the original copies of the photographs from the Colwinston witness to go.
Well, I think that's fair, isn't it?
Have they been given that information?
I am not in.
I don't have the original photographs.
I have copies of them.
The small UFO group that we talked about earlier, the ones that outed me, are in possession of the original photographs and have refused, quote, refused to give them to me.
Okay, well, I don't know.
I mean, I haven't got them here to give me their side of it.
So I hear what you say.
So you're saying that it's not possible for somebody parliamentary, somebody of that ilk, to be able to take this on unless they have something documented.
Right.
And they can't get that because you're saying that it's being, you know, it's not being handed over to them.
So where do you go with this story now, Kaz?
What do you do about it?
I mean, you're telling people, you're telling me.
The investigation is still ongoing.
You know, it took the RAF 18 months to answer us or even acknowledge that the aircraft were here before the event.
And then we had a Section 26, not in the public interest.
The men and women that came and camped in the fields here not only lied about their identity, but the Ministry of Defence lied about knowing who they were, lied about knowing that they were here at all.
Okay, in your opinion.
No, no, no, via freedom of information requests.
We've got their answers.
In your opinion, they were economical with the truth.
Very much so, economical With the truth, but by their own words, be they convicted.
So, what do you need now?
Do you need more witnesses to come forward?
We've seen, even with events that happened decades ago, sometimes, I mean, if you think of the Pascagoula case, you know, I've spoken with Calvin Parker a few times.
It was an anniversary of it recently.
Astonishingly, decades and decades on, four decades on, people are coming forward to talk about that.
Are you scouring the area to try and see if anybody recalls anything?
I think you asked the police, didn't you, about road closures in the area?
And they basically, I don't think they were giving you any information, but they said that some of the principals who dealt with this, some of the officers who dealt with it on the night, weren't working for the police anymore.
Are you trying to find those people?
The police won't give us any information as to who those officers were.
They said they could find no information regarding road closures that night, even though we have witnesses that had difficulty in getting home.
And yet they turned around and said that the officers involved have since left the organisation.
Well, if they can find no evidence of any road closures, how do they know who was involved?
Could you put out an appeal, maybe using local media now five years down the track, to ask if you retired from the police service?
Were you involved in this, in that period in February 2016?
Could you do that?
Have you done that?
I haven't done that, but that would be something that we would be interested in doing.
I have actually spoken to a police officer that was working that night, and he was told, in fact, they were all told, they had to work a double shift and they weren't given an explanation for that.
I mean, the only word that I can use, and it comes straight out of Agatha Christie, is it's all irregular, isn't it?
It's all irregular.
There are missing pieces of this jigsaw.
And to tell you the truth, sitting where I'm sitting, I'm not sure how you get them.
Well, in the new year, we are launching a petition to have the footage and the comms released from the aircraft that were involved that night.
We give their call signs and tell numbers.
I'm not interested in anything that happened before 2am.
And I'm not interested in anything that happened after 5.30am.
They can keep the rest.
So if nothing happened, let's all see nothing happening.
And what would you say to anybody who might say to you that almost sort of patriotically that if this was a military exercise, you really shouldn't be probing about it.
The military have to do things to make sure that their level of preparedness is up to the mark.
And if that's the explanation, then it's time to accept it.
I know it wasn't a military exercise.
And if it was an exercise, why didn't they do it in Senebridge, 40 miles away, over MOD land?
You know, we asked the Ministry of Defence why they chose Huntressen and they said it had special land features.
It doesn't have any special land features other than the fact that members of the public live there and the hospital is there.
The area of woodland.
Sorry.
Sorry.
I understand that the military have to be prepared and that they have to train and members of the public can go and watch a military exercise.
You know, one day they might fly up two helicopters in the morning and land again and in the afternoon they might do some parachute jumps.
But you never have this all at the same time in the early hours of the morning.
As I said before, I'm not here to convince people.
I'm here to inform people.
This happened and this was real.
Since then, in that area, has anything else happened?
I know that some of the UFO investigators that you've had connections with, I think, have done, haven't they done surveys of the electromagnetic properties of the ground in that area of woodland that I think has now been replanted?
Yes.
Gary Jones, who's led the investigation since October of 2017, has been back repeatedly to check the fields.
The EMF was 20 months after the event was still harmful to human beings.
The equivalent, I think, of being X-rayed for two hours solid.
The whole team were made extremely ill from being in those fields and investigations on consecutive days proved to be impossible.
Anything from nausea, which was massive, everyone was sick, headaches, burning eyes, burning skin, disorientation, dizziness.
Is this an area that it's easy for the public to go to?
Do people ramble through there?
Yes, there's a public footpath that runs through that field.
I wonder why other people are not reporting the sickness.
Oh, four years it took for that EMF to dissipate completely.
You know, I think you'd have to spend a reasonable amount of time in those fields at the time for it to have affected you so badly.
We've had spiritualist sensitives come over and on approach to those fields has started to feel the nausea.
You know, we've tried every esoteric kind of investigation as well.
And it seems that there are two energy lines that run down through those fields.
And on closer inspection, it looks or appears that giant stones have been moved from those fields to the edges of the fields, possibly cleared for agriculture back in Roman times.
But we don't know.
More investigations are still ongoing.
So this may have been a significant area in the past.
Indeed.
Well, it's not the first time we've heard that kind of thing, especially in places like Wiltshire, is it?
So what do you do about this then?
You know, beyond now, it's clearly something that is a passionate concern for you that you will take forward.
I'm not going to say obsession with you, but it's something that's a very passionate concern.
I wonder what you can do next.
I would like partial disclosure in the UK or disclosure about this event.
That's what I'm aiming for.
I think as human beings, we have a right to know what is going on.
In my opinion, those craft were not hostile, but we fired upon them anyway.
We pursued them without mercy.
Perhaps the military do know something.
Perhaps they are hostile.
But we should be told, because this is going on without our knowledge and without our consent.
And we are one race.
We are one planet.
What happens if they come back with their warships?
What happens if they come back and they are hostile?
Where does that leave us if we don't know anything?
None of those things I can answer.
I don't know.
And clearly you don't.
And that's what's disturbing about it.
So this has changed your life.
I mean, you wouldn't have said any of the stuff you've just said six or seven years ago, would you?
Not at all.
I have a family and children, and my life was consumed with family life, really.
You know, this happened behind my house.
And if the military hadn't flagpoed the situation, I wouldn't have been watching.
I wouldn't have seen it.
But I did.
And it shocked and appalled me about how we treated someone from somewhere else when we didn't try to communicate.
There was no hand of friendship extended, nothing.
Just they set an ambush for it and pursued it and shot it down.
That's exactly what they did and for what.
But of course, on the other hand, it might have been some kind of very complex, I can't think what, but very complex high-level military training exercise.
But as you say, people might have been told about that in advance.
They would have been, I would have thought.
The media would have been alerted to it.
And it wouldn't have had the effects on people that it did have.
Because when I've known these things happen in different parts of the country, they've tended to be planned on the basis that they're done in places well away from where people live and are in hospital or carrying on businesses, whatever.
Normally, the military does what it needs to do in all our interests, but us ordinary folks don't get involved.
That's right.
That's right.
If it was an exercise, but it wasn't.
You wrote a book about this.
Are you updating that book?
Is there anything new to put in it?
The book is just the first phase of a five-year investigation.
And as I say, the investigation is still ongoing.
I appeal to anybody that saw anything that night, no matter how small or insignificant or fleeting they might think it is, every piece of evidence is important.
You know, I know that there are witnesses in Port Talbot, for example, that saw these barrel-shaped objects, again, being pursued by military helicopters.
You know, that the military exceeded their notam.
If this was an exercise, a no-tam is a notice to airmen, a boundary, if you like, that they do not exceed, and a warning to other aircraft to stay out of that boundary area because an exercise is going on.
But they exceeded that no term by over 50 miles that night.
50 miles, something they would never do in an exercise.
We talk about witnesses and people who might come forward.
You have a website, don't you?
Specifically for those people.
Yes, indeed.
Thepenturkincident.com is a website that not only shows other UFOs and photographs and videos that have been filmed since the event here in Penturk, but also there is a safe space for witnesses to come forward anonymously if they wish to.
There's also a space there for witnesses, if they are in crisis and have had their own experiences, to speak to a counsellor free of charge or to be hypnotically regressed if that's what they want to do.
Again, free of charge by professional.
We just have to say for, I mean, if this was on broadcast radio, I would need to say, you know, you need to take advice about hypnotic regression, go to your GP and that kind of thing beforehand.
Just, you know, for regulatory reasons, we need to be clear about that.
But this website is thepenturkincident.com.
That's T-H-E-P-E-N-T-Y-R-C-Hincident.com.
And that's how they can get hold of you.
And you said something very important, Kaz, I think, that, and it was going to be my last question anyway, but other people have seen other things in the years subsequent.
Yes.
Yes.
In fact, I invited down on June the 11th this year, all of the bloggers and radio hosts that have helped me over the last five years to get this incident out to the public as by way of saying thank you to my home here in Penturk.
And I'd said beforehand, my one wish is that we'll have a low one tonight and no one will film it.
And that's exactly what happened.
We had possibly five or six objects that night, but one in particular came down below the tree line and everybody cheered and clapped and pointed and shouted and not one person photographed it or filmed it.
And these are all professionals.
What a shame.
But it happens all the time, however.
So this stuff is ongoing.
Yes.
Which adds to the mystery.
Indeed.
And I don't know if it happened beforehand because I didn't look.
It's only been since this event that I actually go out and look now.
Why would you before all of us?
Exactly.
Hokie, well, I wish you well.
I hope we've covered all the ground.
Tell me if there's anything that I've missed out.
I don't think you have other than the fact about the men and women that came and camped in the fields here and that they were searching the fields wearing forensic suits where the pyramid came in.
And they spent what, a day there, longer?
They were here for the best part of a week searching using ground-penetrating radar.
They were also triangulating something into this area, I can only believe is a satellite.
Did you get any photographs of them?
We have photographs of the campsite, yes, and some of the men and women who were operating in the fields.
I don't know what they were looking for, but you know, I had a conversation with the commanding officer, bearing in mind that they told me that they were Vodafone.
And I said, you often send civilians to look for, because they told me they were looking for mock mines.
I said, do you often send civilians to look for mines wearing paper suits?
Because that's a sure way to find them.
They didn't have a sense of humour either.
But the commanding officer wasn't very happy that we were there and tried to move us on.
And I said, well, he accused us of trespassing and asked if we had permission to be there.
And I told him that that was a public footpath.
And he became a bit more animated and pointed to the public footpath and said, no, that's a public footpath.
And I said, are you joking?
That's 12 feet away.
The only thing the country code desires me to do is take my rubbish home.
And he became a little bit more angry, shall we say, and started to ask me for identification.
And that really was the night that I found out that I had post-traumatic stress because I went from zero to 100.
And I said, listen, I said, we fought two world wars, so we'd have the right to be free.
I said, and as long as I'm not breaking the law or hurting anybody, I said, we've got a goddamn right to be here.
I said, I remember the fascist war movies.
They come in and ask you for your papers.
I said, well, I don't have to show you anything.
Okay, well, it sounds like a pretty heated conversation.
And this, as you're telling me, is part of a five-year investigation.
And it's not over.
It's not over.
And it won't be over until we get disclosure about what happened that night.
If, apart from experiences, if any of my listeners want to contact you and ask you questions about this or share their thoughts with you, can they do that through that website?
They can indeed, yes.
And they're welcome to.
Anybody can ask questions and I will guarantee that I will answer each and every one of them.
Thank you for answering mine, Kaz.
Please take care.
Thank you, Howard.
The website is thepenturkincident.com and we've been speaking with Kaz Clark, the principal witness of this and somebody who's deeply, as you can hear, invested in the whole thing.
We're completely out of time.
Thank you very much for being part of this.
I would welcome your thoughts about what you've just heard.
Go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
Send me an email from there.
Thank you very much for being part of this.
More great guests in the pipeline here at the Home of the Unexplained.
So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been the Unexplained.
And please stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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