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Sept. 26, 2021 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
41:58
Edition 577 - Kathleen Marden & Nick Pope
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Hope everything's hunky-dory with you wherever you are.
Don't forget to send me an email, tell me how things are with you, give me your thoughts on the show.
If you have a guest suggestion, somebody you'd like to hear on the show and maybe you know how to contact them, then also let me know that.
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Follow the link.
Send me an email from there, and you can tell me what you think.
And always good to hear from you, wherever you are.
And your emails have been keeping me going through this last 18 months or so in my grand, well, not grand at all, in my considerable isolation.
Oh, Lord.
I don't know.
It's one of those days.
Thank you very much, though, for all of the communications.
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Very important that you just go there and take a look.
And if you want to interact with it, then please do.
The official Facebook page and no other of The Unexplained with Howard Hughes.
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Okay, what we're going to do on this edition is a couple of things from my radio show that I didn't want to let pass.
Number one, Nick Pope, former MOD UFO man here in the UK, now living in America, independent investigator.
We're going to chew some thoughts around briefly at the beginning about Luis Elizondo, who is releasing a book.
Now, it's bound to be fascinating.
It could turn out to be explosive.
The former head of ATIP is going into the book business very big time, and we will find out what he has to say.
I hope that we're able to speak with him here about the book, because I can't wait.
And we'll see what Lou says in the book.
So Nick Pope first, then after that, to mark the 60th anniversary of the Betty and Barney Hill abduction case, the most famous alien abduction case in history, probably.
1961, September the 19th and 20th, it happened, across that weekend, which was replicated 60 years on.
It was also a weekend.
I'll be speaking again to Kathleen Marden, the niece of Betty Hill, about recent developments, the updated book she wrote with Stanton Friedman about this, and also some new thoughts about the case itself.
So we'll speak with her from my radio show coming soon.
Thank you very much for being part of my show.
Thank you for being my family.
Even if I may never see you, I feel such a bond with all of my listeners around the world.
We've kept this going.
We've kept the flame burning for 15 years online now.
More than 15 years.
We're heading into our 16th year online.
And I'm really proud of that.
And I'm really proud of you.
Thank you for your help and support in all of those years.
Okay, item number one then, Nick Pope.
And we're talking here about the book that is going to be coming out by Luis Elizondo about ATIP and his life.
I think it's going to be an interesting book.
Let's hear what Nick Pope thinks.
Well, I think this was always the logical step for him.
You can only do so many brief TV and radio interviews, a few sound bites.
A book gives him a chance to really spend, I don't know, between 70 and 100,000 words really setting out who he is, what his story is, and what he believes about all this, going into a depth and breadth that you simply can't do in any other forum.
He is very picky, isn't he, about where he appears and, you know, who he gets interviewed by.
Well, I think he has to be.
I mean, he is absolutely who he says he is.
He's done what he says he's done.
So he is somebody who, like myself, is still bound by his secrecy oath.
People are watching carefully.
And absolutely, there is a line which he should not and doesn't want to cross.
And that actually brings us to one of the most interesting things about the book is that it will need, the manuscript will need security vetting from the part of the Department of Defense called DOPSA, which stands for Defense Office of Pre-Publication and Security Review.
And as you may well recall, there has been a god-awful row about some of the previous books that have gone through this system or haven't.
I mean, you may remember people may recall the controversy about No Easy Day, which was the book by the Navy SEAL who shot Bin Laden, General Stanley McChrystal's book and some of the criticisms about U.S. foreign and military policy.
I mean, this is an absolute minefield.
Yes, I can imagine it is.
And you've told me before that you're still bound by the agreements that you signed.
And I guess the agreements that he signed will be just as heavy.
The thing that interested me, though, that, Nick, was when you said people were watching.
So literally the likes of you, who worked for the MOD, Luis Elizondo, who effectively worked for the American Defense Establishment.
Even though you're both not doing that anymore, you know things and you say that you are being watched and listened to.
Yes.
I mean, I don't want it to sound too sinister, but I mean, it was absolutely when I was doing this job for the Ministry of Defense, part of what we did was media monitoring.
So we would pick up who was saying what about this subject.
And obviously, if it was somebody in the system, either serving or even retired, and therefore carried a degree more weight than, for example, civilian UFO clubs, for example.
But if we're talking about retired military officers or members of parliament making statements about this, absolutely, it would come across our desks.
What do you think will be in Luis Elizondo's book?
How much do you think he will be able to say?
Well, it's a real balancing act because, of course, his publishers, William Morrow, which is part of the HarperCollins Empire will be pushing him, as with all books, obviously, they want things that are new and things that are unique and things that are controversial.
And this should be a hugely successful book.
But of course, there's pressure the other way.
Lou knows that there's a line which he can't cross, and that, of course, this book has to be at unclassified level.
So there's a real target of war.
And I can well imagine, and I've been through this myself, both with my own books and actually in a different job I did for the Ministry of Defense, vetting some of the books about the Gulf War.
It's a real, it can get really messy.
You get the manuscript in, you think, oh my goodness, you know, we can't have somebody releasing that.
You get out the black pen.
You say, no, we really don't want that.
And then it depends how the person plays it and their publishers.
Do they just say, oh, fine, we'll take it out?
Or do they push back?
And you can get into a real sort of back and forward struggle over this.
But there's a real pitfall that Lou has in that technically it's even an offense to give an unvetted manuscript to a publisher.
So it's like, well, how can you do it, site unseen?
Well, obviously a synopsis, but arguably, if you were really being picky, you could say even a synopsis needs to be security vetted.
So he's counting on the fact that nobody's going to be following every jot and tittle of the law.
According to the Hollywood Reporter, and I quote here, and I'm sure you've seen this article, the memoir promises, quotes, to reveal shocking, never-before-shared details regarding what Luis Elezondo has learned about UFOs and the profound implications for humanity.
Now, that's a pretty big statement.
Do you think we're going to get that?
Well, I think arguably a lot of those statements are probably written by the publisher's PR department and things, but there's no getting away from the fact that Lou knows secrets and who knows.
If we're talking about the extraterrestrial hypothesis, and if there's anything that Lou, anything further that Lou can bring out that's going to advance that, then absolutely there are indeed profound implications for humanity.
Which takes us on to the current state of play here.
I mean, this has been probably the most exciting year in all of ufology because we had this interim report that was delivered during June on a Friday, late on a Friday, but nevertheless it was delivered at a time when perhaps a lot of people wouldn't have seen it.
So it took them time to digest it.
We've had that.
They told us that within 90 days, we'd get something more meaty.
We'd get a few more details to hang on the bones.
What are you hearing about that?
Well, the commitment was to update Congress in 90 days.
And there was not a commitment to, as they did last time with the preliminary assessment, to issue an unclassified summary for the media and the public.
I think there'll be a lot of pressure on them to do it.
Nobody likes to miss deadlines in government.
So I am expecting this to drop on or around 23rd of September.
But I'm not sure it will necessarily be a full assessment.
I reached out to the Office of Director of National Intelligence for an update on this.
And a spokesperson gave me a line which basically said, yes, we gave that commitment to Congress.
Yes, we are continuing to work with the various congressional committees, i.e.
intelligence committees and armed services committees.
So I think if we get anything that's made public, it will just be more of the same.
It will be, I think, yes, we are building processes by which if pilots see UFOs, they're more likely to get reported.
We're just trying to, I think it's going to be that in the first instance.
We're just beefing up the reporting system.
So I'm not expecting suddenly, oh, here's disclosure.
But there have been people around government in America, maybe even for all we know around government here, camping at the bit to have more information released and to be apprised of more information themselves.
Do you think now that this particular horse is out of the traps and it's going to be impossible, if there is a big secret to be revealed, it's going to be impossible to stop the momentum that we've now got?
I think so, yes.
And interestingly, the various committees in Congress, in both the Senate and the House, are indeed doing just that, keeping the pressure on.
And into the next round, this hasn't got much media attention yet, but into the next round of intelligence authorization acts and defense authorization acts have gone more words on UFOs, UAPs, whatever you want to call them, calling for more action on this.
So those bills are going forward.
They'll probably be amalgamated into a single piece of legislation.
But absolutely, people are keeping the pressure on.
So this remains, as I said at the top of this, the most exciting and intriguing year of all for those of us who watch these things.
Yes.
And now I think the only missing piece of the puzzle, well, one of the missing pieces of the puzzle, and I know this is taking us off into a different direction, but it's where's the UK in all of this?
Because we are in a bizarre situation where the United States intelligence community has basically said UFOs are an air safety threat and a potential national security challenge.
And the UK, which is usually seamless with the United States on defense issues, is saying we're not interested.
And a lot of people have been saying, where is the UK on all of this?
You know, if we're important enough to go into partnership with the Americans and the Australians in a new South China Sea, Etc.
partnership, which was announced this week, then we're also important enough to be heavily involved in all of this, but we don't seem to be saying anything.
No, which I suppose leads us to one of two possibilities.
Either the denials are true and they genuinely aren't interested, or they are, but they're being much more cagey than the United States, and it's all going on behind closed doors.
That's the British way.
Nick, thank you very much.
Thank you.
My thanks to Nick Pope for that.
And I'm looking forward to being able to see a copy of Lou Elizondo's book when it comes out.
And I would love to speak with Lou about this here.
A fascinating guest who is right at the core of all of these things now, ufology, UFOs, aliens, and what the powers that be may or may not know about those things.
So Luis Elizondo is a guest that I really enjoy having on this show.
Okay, next up, Kathleen Marden, talking about the Betty and Barney Hill alien abduction case, the 60th anniversary in the last few days.
Let's hear from Kathleen from my radio show.
Before we get to Betty Hill's niece, Kathleen Marden, who has been carrying on this story and its ramifications for many, many years, I want to read this.
This comes from the history.com website, and I think this is a great intro to what we're about to talk about.
Is it chasing us?
That thought coursed through Betty and Barney Hill's minds as they drove down the empty, winding country road in New Hampshire's White Mountains.
It was a September night in 1961.
They hadn't seen a car for miles, and a strange light in the sky seemed to follow them.
When they finally got home to Portsmouth at dawn, they were far from relieved.
They felt dirty.
Their watches had stopped working.
Barney's shoes were strangely scuffed.
Betty's dress was ripped.
There were two hours of the drive that neither of them could remember.
That's just the beginning of this story, which is the most famous, the most notorious alien abduction case in all of history, I would say.
Kathleen Martin is online to us now, the niece of Betty Hill.
And Kathleen, I'm very grateful to you.
I know this is an important weekend.
Thank you for giving me half an hour of your time, Kathleen.
How are you?
It is my pleasure, and I'm fine.
Thank you.
You know, that description is only a taster, really, of what occurred to Betty and Barney, isn't it, on that night, incredibly now 60 years ago this very weekend?
Absolutely.
It was a good lead-in to what did occur, but there was far more to this story than what we just heard.
And there was a great deal of physical evidence that underwent scientific investigation over the years.
And over the past 12, 13 or so years, I have continued that search for scientists who are interested in this case.
And my recently released 60th anniversary edition of Captured, the Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience, is new and updated with the new scientific evidence and witnesses as well.
So very exciting to.
That is exciting.
We'll get into that.
Can you, you know, I gave a little taster there from, which I thought was quite a nice paragraph that I took from the history.com website.
Thank you to them, just to get us into this.
But for those who may be, and I can't believe that anybody listening to a show like this one wouldn't have a brief idea, but just give me a thumbnail sketch of what occurred to Betty and Barney on that night in 1961.
They were driving from Montreal, Canada to their home on the seacoast of New Hampshire.
It wasn't a long trip, and they were well rested from the night before.
They were driving through upstate New Hampshire when Betty spotted a new light in the sky.
And what was so mysterious about it is that it moved upward, and she knew of nothing that moved in that fashion.
So she continued to watch it as it grew larger in the sky.
And she asked Barney to stop the car so they could get a better look.
They did stop once, then they stopped again through a beautiful area of New Hampshire called Franconia Notch, where a very wide valley closes in with mountains on each side and a Pemijawasic River that runs down on one side as well.
And there, by the old man of the mountain, which used to be New Hampshire's state symbol until it fell off the mountain in 2003, Betty and Barney saw this craft that was just hovering in the air.
It appeared to be rotating.
It was lighted on only one side.
And the old man's profile is 48 feet from forehead to chin.
And they said that this craft was at least one and a half, maybe two times the length of the old man's profile.
It traveled in an erratic pattern after that, and Betty and Barney continued to drive home.
But this craft closed in on them in Lincoln, New Hampshire, North Lincoln, which was just about four miles from where they had stopped previously.
Betty wanted Barney to pull to the side of the road, but before he could, the craft swooped down and stopped within 200 feet of their vehicle.
Barney stopped the car.
He got out and he looked up with his binoculars at this craft and described it as appearing to be a huge pancake just hanging there, hovering silently in the air with a forward row of lighted windows.
Betty remained in the passenger seat.
Barney stepped away from the car and when he did, the craft shifted to an adjacent field and now descended to within a hundred feet of Barney.
He put the binoculars to his eyes and he saw figures dressed in black shiny uniforms looking down at him.
He saw all but one suddenly turn and move to what appeared to be a panel.
When they did that, their arms went up.
He could see them from the tops of their heads to their knees and little red lights started to slide out from two sides of this oval craft and they were on little fin-like structures.
And then something started to drop down out of the bottom of the craft.
Barney didn't know what it was.
Today we know it's the carrier beam that takes people to craft.
But Barney sensed that something was going to happen.
He told investigator Walter Webb that he thought that he and Betty were about to be captured like a bug in a net.
And this is when he went running back to the car, screaming to Betty that they had to get out of there or they were going to be captured.
As he was entering the car, the craft moved.
It was coming toward him again.
He went tearing down the highway and within moments he and Betty heard a series of code-like buzzing sounds striking the trunk of their vehicle.
The car vibrated, a tingling sensation passed through their bodies, and the next thing they knew, they were 35 miles down the highway with very little memory of what had happened in the interim.
They remembered a dirt road with tall trees all around, a fiery orb that appeared to be sitting on the ground, a very large orb, and a roadblock, but they didn't know when or where this occurred.
They drove on home and when they arrived, they found the physical evidence that you mentioned and were extremely perplexed.
This is the most scientifically and first scientifically investigated case of alien abduction in the United States.
Catherine, remind me, would you, how much of it they were able to recall by the time they got home?
Because many of the details that you've just told me, they were not able to recount, were they, until sometime later.
They had to have help to remember.
No, no, everything I've told you so far, they remembered.
Right, okay.
It's in the stuff about the actual abduction.
Yes.
Well, it's in what I just said is in my book, Captured, and it's in the earliest archival records.
But what they didn't remember is what happened when they found themselves on that dirt road and what that roadblock was and what that fiery orb was.
And eventually, Barney became very ill.
He developed bleeding ulcers.
He was hospitalized, high blood pressure, and he had to take a three-month leave of absence from work.
And he was referred to a renowned psychiatrist in Boston, Massachusetts, who had had great deal of success working with veterans during World War II, returning from the front, who had psychogenically induced physiological symptoms.
They couldn't see, they couldn't walk, etc.
He was the perfect doctor for Barney to see because he had developed a highly successful technique using hypnosis to overcome this psychological trauma.
And so Barney was referred to him, went to him, and he helped him greatly.
Betty went along too and said that she would like to undergo hypnosis.
So Dr. Simon hypnotized them separately and reinstated amnesia at the end of each session.
And what they discovered is that they were on that dirt road and the roadblock was the entities that Barney had seen when he was standing in that field.
And they opened the car doors.
They took Betty and Barney out to a landed craft on the ground in a clearing.
And they underwent very strange physical examinations.
These entities were very interested in their skeletal structure, in the way their joints worked, in their hands, in their feet, in their mouths.
They scraped their skin.
I'm wondering if they were looking for microscopic life on human skin.
And they inserted a needle into Betty's navel, probably to extract ova.
And they took a sperm sample from Barney.
Betty was examined first, and while Barney was being examined, she grew accustomed to being with the one that she called the leader.
Today we know this is the escort that sees the abductee time and time again.
But she said to him, I know you're not from around here.
Where's your home port?
And he produced a three-dimensional star map.
And on that map, there were two very large nickel or quarter-size stars in the foreground, connected by five lines.
And then there were other stars.
Some of them were connected by solid lines, some by dotted lines, and she was made to understand that the dotted lines were expeditions and the solid lines were trade routes.
Well, the very interesting thing is that Dr. Simon gave Betty the post-hypnotic suggestion that if she could draw this map and it didn't bother her too badly and she could remember how to draw it, then she should.
So she went home and over the next couple of weeks, she did draw that map and it was published in the first book that was ever written.
It's also, you'll see it, and the identification in my book captured the Betty and Barney Hill UFO experience.
But a woman, a brilliant woman from Ohio, an amateur astronomer and school teacher at the time who went on to work at the Oak Ridge Atomic Laboratory after she did this work, spent several years attempting to identify the stars on Betty's map.
She had to go to the university and there were no Xerox machines, there were no computers.
She had to sit and hand copy the distance data and the characteristics of the stars out 55 light years from our sun.
And then she built 14 three-dimensional models of our galactic neighborhood 54 light years from the sun.
And still in 1971, she didn't have a match, but our technology improved.
And she went back to the university.
She saw the new distance data in a map, in a book there.
She took that information home, did the calculations to know exactly where to place all of those stars.
And then she had a match for Betty's map.
The problem was, who was going to vet her work for accuracy?
So Stanton Friedman was called in.
He was my co-author on Captured.
And he found scientists, astrophysicists, statisticians who were willing to vet Marjorie's work.
Those who did said that it was accurate.
And not only that, the stars on Betty's map are all sun-like stars, although only 5% of the stars in our local galactic neighborhood out 54 light years are sun-like.
And all of the sun-like stars in that volume of space are on Betty's map.
And not only that, they are arranged in a plane like pepperoni on a pizza as opposed to raisins in a fat loaf of raisin bread.
And what that means is that it is a logical progression.
It's an easy route to take from star to star to star.
In fact, one of the astronomers said that if we lived on Zeta Reticuli and we were attempting to find a route, we were exploring the nearby stars, we would follow that route.
And our sun is on the map with two lines drawn to it.
So quite astounding.
Utterly astounding.
And, you know, the story remained consistent for decades.
Can I put to you something that one of my listeners, I said I would ask you this.
This is Matt who asked me this question.
Matt says, Betty's claim that she was shown a star map to him, this is Matt, seems unconvincing.
The notion that a superior technological advanced space traveling civilization rely on keeping handy star maps aboard their craft, either for traveling purposes or to show abductees, seems unlikely.
What do you say to that?
I will say that first we have to remember what I just said about Betty's map.
It has unique characteristics that convinced many scientists that it was authentic and real.
And in addition to that, we should not use human judgment to determine whether ETs would have something like this.
Perhaps they could produce it instantaneously when Betty asked that question.
Sure.
So Betty's interpretation of it may have been, because that's what we know, and that's what we, this was before Satnav and all the rest of it, you know, before GPS and all of those things.
So she would have understood map.
This may not have been a map.
This may have been something that they produced.
But what was important was her later representation of what she saw and then the later scientific determination that some of these things we simply didn't know at the time.
Yes.
And what Betty saw was either a holographic image or something that appeared to be three-dimensional that she was looking into when they produced it.
Now, Betty and Barney were not sci-fi fanatics, were they?
They were solid, professional people, the last people you would expect.
If somebody was going to make up a story, I wouldn't have thought it would be them.
That's correct.
Absolutely.
Remember, they were an interracial couple, married in 1961.
You do not draw attention to yourselves.
They were active in their community.
In fact, in 1965, before there was a violation of confidentiality that carried their story to the public, Betty and Barney had been invited to the presidential inauguration because of their work in politics in New Hampshire.
Barney had received an award from the Archdiocese of Manchester, New Hampshire for setting up a literacy program so that people would learn to read and be able to vote in New Hampshire.
He received an award from Sergeant Shriver from the Federal Poverty Program for setting up the Rockingham Community Action Program to assist impoverished people in the area.
And he had been appointed to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights as a state advisory committee member.
All of these wonderful localities.
Okay, absolutely.
They would be the last person or people rather that you would expect to create something like this.
And as you've told me on other occasions, you know, they were not sci-fi fanatics or into any of this stuff.
Now, sadly, Barney died tragically young, didn't he?
And Betty was left with carrying this knowledge for the rest of her life.
How did she manage with that?
Betty had many interests and many friends.
It was difficult immediately for her when Barney died.
This was her partner, the person that she had this experience with, as far as she knew, the only other person in the world who had had this type of experience.
I moved in with Betty.
I was in college at the time, and I drove Barney's car to college and lived with Betty for more than a year while she got back on her feet emotionally and continued on with her work as a social worker for the state of New Hampshire.
So over that time, she had a wide variety of friends.
And throughout her lifetime, she was a happy person.
She said that she was so pleased that this had happened because it gave her the opportunity to meet people that she wouldn't have otherwise met.
And she was a very gregarious person and highly intelligent.
So she did well.
That's a lovely way to look at it.
Did she ever, as some people who have experiences like this, did she have any more experiences or was that it?
Well, Betty would never admit that she had more experiences.
But as I've read through her files that she left, I see event after event where she was riding with a friend and a craft came down very close to the car.
And then the car felt like it was going up a hill and they found themselves on another stretch of road.
And also I found a hypnosis tape she had later where she stated that they came to check up on her about once a year.
Really?
So it appears that she did.
And, you know, most experiencers are taken periodically throughout their lifetime, not just one time.
And you know that because you've continued to investigate these things.
I've heard that time and time again from experiencers.
The book Captured, which was a marvelous account of all of this and the time that followed it, you wrote in conjunction with the late and great Stanton T. Friedman.
You've updated that book.
You said you have new witnesses and new information.
Just give me a flavor of what that might be.
Well, I received a phone call from a man who had been in the Navy and he had been serving in Maine and he and his friend were traveling on that night and they decided not to speak about it at that time, but they have written testimony that they've signed.
It's at the University of New Hampshire, stating that they believed they saw that craft heading in the direction of Betty and Barney.
Also, there was a letter that Stanton sent to me, and it was a letter from the newspaper reporter who broke that story as a result of a violation of confidentiality.
But what we discovered is that he had done his own investigation, and he had found at least a dozen people in upstate New Hampshire who saw a craft in the same location where Betty and Barney saw it on the same night in the same timeframe.
And he determined that from drawing lines to where these various people were located to where Betty and Barney and the craft were.
Betty and Barney would have loved that validation in their lifetimes, wouldn't they?
Absolutely.
So there is a lot of really.
I mean, can you, we've got to, I know that you have to be gone well before midnight here, and I'm very pleased on this anniversary that you could give me your time, Kathleen.
It's really good of you.
But just give me a little idea of what else is in that updated edition of the book.
You will find a new evaluation of the star map by an astrophysicist.
You will find new scientific testing on Betty's dress, new DNA testing on Betty's dress with some very interesting findings.
There's a scientific study on the symbols that Betty found on a book on that craft.
She called it a book.
It didn't look like a book, but that's the only word she had for it in that time frame.
So she sketched some of those symbols for me during my investigation.
And a college professor, academic psychologist, worked with another academic psychologist on an alien symbol study and compared Betty's symbols, which you will find in my book, with those of other experiencers who have participated in this study and compared them with college students who were hypnotized and suggested that they had been on a UFO
and saw symbols.
So it's a very long story, but it is a very important thing.
And was there correlation?
I mean, that would be, I mean, we've got to get the book, obviously, but was there correlation between other experiences and the symbols that Betty had produced?
There certainly were.
Yes.
I must see this book.
And what about the DNA testing on the dress?
Was there anything new that we could learn?
There was, additionally, we found fluid that was on the lining of Betty's dress in the region of her navel where the examiner had inserted a very large needle.
And there was DNA testing on that stain on the lining of Betty's dress.
It did not penetrate the outside of her dress, only the lining.
Very interesting.
How fascinating.
Is this book available in the United Kingdom, by the way?
I know it's out in the U.S. Yes, it is.
Well, Kathleen, I think it's a remarkable story.
I think, and I've said this to you before, it's a great tribute to you that you work with people who've had these experiences now, but also you're keeping this story alive for future generations.
It's very important, I think, that they should hear it.
The media here actually hasn't cottoned onto the anniversary.
Have people in America, has the media in America been across this?
Because it's this very weekend, isn't it?
It's the 19th, 20th of September.
Yes, and the media, television media, has caught on to it.
And I have been doing many, many also, not just television, but radio shows and podcasts in recent weeks about this and spoke at a conference about it as well.
Well, Kathleen, good luck with the book.
I must see a copy of this as soon as I can.
You're always a very gracious guest.
I think it's a remarkable story.
And like I say, we need to keep this story imprinted in the modern consciousness.
It's not something that we should leave behind 60 years ago because there's much that we can learn from this.
Tell us again the title of the book.
It's Captured, isn't it?
It's Captured, the Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience, the 60th Anniversary Edition.
Kathleen Marden, can't wait to get my hands on the updated copy of the book, Captured, and I wish her every success with that book and the work that she's doing.
Kathleen Marden, always welcome on the unexplained.
Before that, of course, you heard Nick Pope talking about Luis Elizondo and the book that he is about to release, which I'm sure will be exciting and potentially explosive.
I can't wait to see that one as well.
Thank you very much for being part of my show.
Please keep the emails coming.
Keep those communications rolling in.
Love to hear from you wherever you are.
They keep me going.
And it's nice to know that I can play some small part in your life wherever you are, even if I may never meet you in person.
Okay, thank you very much.
My name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained.
And until next we meet, please stay safe.
Please stay calm.
And above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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