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May 24, 2021 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
49:19
Edition 547 - James Fox, Jeremy Corbell & Sean Cahill
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Thank you very much for all of your emails and all of the nice comments about the show.
I'm trying to keep up with all of the emails that come in and please keep them coming.
If I haven't replied to an email and you were expecting a reply, please, please remind me I've had a full-on couple of months and at some point I'm going to have to take a break from everything because I don't take very much in the way of breaks.
And you know how it is, especially with lockdown and everything, you get to a point where it starts to hit you badly.
And I think that is probably where I am now.
You know, I've always kind of put work first all of my life, but I do need to take some kind of break, not least to sort out my living conditions, which I've talked about before, which will mean that I will have to move out of my apartment at some point.
God knows how I'm going to do that.
I've never done anything like that before, and I'm absolutely dreading having to get everything sorted out and do that, but it can't wait.
It's not something that can, but I will keep everything going as best I can through all of this.
Thank you for your communications.
If you want to get in touch with me, please go to the website theunexplained.tv, designed and created by Adam from Creative Hotspot.
Thank you to Haley for booking the podcast, guests.
Like I say, the last two months or so have been pretty full-on.
I've had to be very hands-on with everything, so it's not been the easiest time.
But, you know, keeps the mind going, I guess.
All right, this edition, a special one, this is a pull together of some big conversations that I've had in the last couple of days with some people right at the heart of the whole ETUFO contact everything issue.
You know that there is imminently about to be a report delivered in Washington that may lift the lid on some of these matters.
A lot of people are hotly in anticipation of all of this, which I definitely am.
I have to say, I'm one of those millions of people around the world eagerly awaiting what happens next.
Now, I can't tell you.
Neither of us knows whether this is going to be the dawning of disclosure, whether we're about to find something really big has been maybe concealed from us or maybe we're learning about.
I don't know.
But I've got a feeling we might be on the brink of something.
So three guests from conversations recorded in the last couple of days on my shows coming to you now.
First of all, Jeremy Corbell, who of course made headlines in the last week or so with some video footage that he released.
He has more, he says, to release.
Jeremy Corbell, investigator, filmmaker, and friend of this show.
So we'll hear from Jeremy first.
Then a catch-up with James Fox, the man behind the Phenomenon documentary so successful over the last year or so.
We'll catch up with him in the United States.
And then after that, Sean Carhill, who was on board and a senior officer on board the USS Princeton when the 2004 Tic-Tac UFO incident happened.
He will tell you his story and what he is doing now here on this edition of The Unexplained in an extended conversation.
So those three things happening here.
Thank you for your contacts.
You know how to reach me through the website theunexplained.tv.
Follow the link, send me an email from there if you'd like to.
I love to hear from you.
These are exciting times.
There is no doubt about that.
Okay, let's get to the first thing on the list then.
That is a conversation with Jeremy Corbel in the light of his conversations with big media like CNN over this last week on this very exciting and very important issue in all of our lives.
This is Jeremy Corbel.
Jeremy, thank you for doing this.
How are you?
I'm good, Howard.
I'm a little exhausted from all the work that's been going on the last month in this field, but I'm feeling good.
Geez, you've had a hell of a week, though.
You know, you seem to have been everywhere.
I saw you on CNN this week.
Yeah, well, you know, look, it happens.
I was, you know, look, the U.S. Navy photographed and filmed pyramid-shaped UFOs and spherical, advanced, trans-medium vehicles swarming Navy warships.
I obtained and released this footage with my mentor in journalism, George Knapp.
All of these materials were unclassified and they were directly confirmed by the Pentagon.
So that's why I've been busy getting this footage out to the global public to assess for themselves reality.
Let's define for my listener transmedia means that this is a craft that can operate in space, in the sky here, and in water.
This is what's suspected to be seen on the FLIR USS Omaha footage that I obtained and released.
You see an object that appears to be going into the water.
So the idea that the UAPTF task force, the UAP task force came up with is that most likely this is a transmedium vehicle, meaning yes, it can penetrate that barrier between air and sea without destruction.
And in fact, I am privy to the information and I expect I should expect people to try to hold me accountable to it, but that a U.S. sub was tasked with trying to look for the wreckage or the object or craft under the water and could not find it.
So this is a super interesting.
So transmedium does mean that, that it can travel between mediums without destruction.
Jeremy, something that disappears into the water is seen doing so and cannot then be found has to be, as has been said so many times, something that we certainly do not understand.
Well, yeah, and it wasn't just seen doing it, it was filmed doing it.
And so that is the military FLIR footage that I released.
And you can actually hear the audio.
So just like how you have the gimbal, the tic-tac, and the go fast crap that the Pentagon confirmed, we now have a USO, unidentified submerged object that is a transmedium appearing vehicle that is going into the water.
And by the way, now we know about FLIRs.
There's no tail, no rotors, no plumes, no obvious propulsion systems.
This object is spherical and at least six feet in diameter in body mass.
So this is a big vehicle.
They call them drones.
That's how they're originally listed.
And it's because they were a mystery, because we don't know what they are.
So it's really interesting to see how these things unfold.
But now the public has more evidence.
And that's the thing that I've been doing over the last month is trying to push forward so our intelligence communities, when they put this report together this summer, next month, that they are beholden to the will of the American people because they have a duty to inform us.
Are you hearing anything about what's going to be in that report?
Of course, yeah.
And I'm hearing whispers, but I think we should all just wait and see what's in the report.
I think it will be a preliminary report, that it will be a good beginning.
What do the whispers say as far as you can tell me?
Well, you know, I don't want to say what's going to be in something.
I have no control of its release.
I know what I can control.
I can control the release of footage that I obtained.
And I'm not done yet, Howard.
Next week, there will be more.
There will be more?
There will be more.
And is this, you're talking about video footage?
Further material?
I will be releasing more information next week, visual information.
Okay, we might need to talk then if you possibly have time, Jeremy.
You tweeted yesterday, I think it was, maybe the day before, what if Bob Lazar, and Bob Lazar is the man who said that he worked at Area 51, just to tell my listener this, you know him well, you said, what if Bob Lazar is telling it exactly like it is?
That's intriguing.
What did you mean?
Well, I think all paths lead to what Bob Lazar told us back in 1989.
Bob Lazar described a gravitational propulsion system.
A craft is transmedium due to the propulsion system itself.
It is looking more and more likely that these UFOs, that they operate through gravity propulsion, and this is, by definition, allows them to be transmedium because of the way they're falling into space rather than through a reactionary propulsion system.
So when I said that on my Twitter, it was to remind people that Bob Lazar told us about these craft and how they operate in 1989.
And we are now seeing visual video evidence that supports what he said.
And we have to remember that Bob Lazar has been widely dismissed by a lot of people.
They even tried to deny his service record.
So he's had a lot of flack to bear over the years.
And he's been widely accepted in the last three years, ever since I put out my Netflix film.
So yeah, with information over time, you can start to carve through and understand and separate the wheat from the chaff.
Everything Bob Lazar has said has stood the test of time for over 30 years.
We can't ignore that any longer.
You were on CNN this week.
So was Luis Elizondo, the former head of the Advanced Aerial Threat Intelligence Program, ATIP.
He said to CNN, quote, the United States government is in possession of exotic material, and I'll leave it at that.
Anything to say about that, Jeremy?
Yeah, so Lou was in charge at one time of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.
It was a sub-UFO program that dealt specifically with military encounters.
However, they never received a penny.
The 22 million you've heard about and read in the news, you know, the New York Times got it wrong, actually, when they reported on it in 2017.
The 22 million went to a program called AWSAP, Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program.
And this is what studied UFOs.
Remember, the U.S. government said they stopped studying UFOs in 1969.
Turns out that isn't true.
And there were programs we know about.
So Lou Elizondo was part of a very specific small study group of military UFO encounters.
And if anybody would know what our military had, I'm sure that Lou is one of those people that would have some knowledge.
So I'd listen to what he said.
Last question, and thank you for doing this, Jeremy.
It's always good to speak with you, and I know you're busy.
Proof, maybe.
What do you think?
That the dam is about to burst.
CBS had a poll, I think it was this week.
60% of Americans now believe that there is intelligent life on other planets, an increase of 10 percentage points since the last time that CBS did a poll like that in 2017.
To me, that looks very significant.
Yeah, Howard, we're at a tipping point when it comes to the reality and the presence of UFOs on planet Earth being acknowledged by world governments.
You know, the whole UFO subject has been turned on its head since 2017, but really a lot this month with the releases that I've done.
You know, we've had unexpected admissions from people in the Pentagon and senior intelligence officials coming forward, and even this week from our own U.S. presidents here.
So, look, this new candor is astonishing.
And after so many decades of outright lies along with ridicule, you know, I'm grateful to see these changes in the media environment and also within our intelligence communities, talking straight to the American people and the global public.
Well, let's hope that everything we hope and we anticipate may happen does actually happen.
But I will advise my listener then, Jeremy, to be watching your Twitter feed over the next week, yeah?
Oh, yeah.
Watch my Instagram and my Twitter, just at Jeremy Corbell.
You will be receiving more information this coming week.
Great to talk with you.
Don't work too hard.
We'll talk again.
Thank you, Jeremy.
Take care.
Thank you, Howard.
Have a good night.
And we will imminently, I am sure, hear more from Jeremy Corbel on The Unexplained and many other portals and places as well, I'm sure.
All right.
Let's hear a little bit of my conversation from last Saturday with James Fox, the man who made the phenomenon documentary.
Here's his take on where we're at now.
Here we are reaching this so-called critical mass.
There's more talk about UFOs in the media than there has been for decades.
CBS 60 Minutes, one of the most august news programs in the world, does a whole show about it, you know, last weekend.
What is it that brought us here?
Who decided?
Because it almost seems to me that somebody made a decision it's time for this.
How did this happen?
You know, we have a lot to thank Senator Reed for starting the ATIP, for launching this, and Lou Elizondo and Christopher Mellon and Leslie Kane in the New York Times,
Helene Cooper, Ralph Blumenthal, hugely responsible for everything changed December of 2017 when it was revealed That there was a secret UFO Pentagon program on the front page of the New York Times.
The New York Times doesn't report serious stuff on this topic.
They certainly didn't prior to that.
And in fact, that was one of our targets.
And may he rest in peace, Stanton Friedman had said one day there, you know, the New York Times, and did Stanton see that story?
He might have lived long enough.
I don't remember.
I dedicated the film to him.
That changed everything.
I think it may have come out around his final months.
I don't know whether he never talked about it because he'd gone into retirement by then.
Just to tell my listener, I'm sure they know.
Stanton Friedman was in Canada.
He was the man they call the father of modern ufology.
A lot of us wouldn't be interested in this stuff without him.
But I want a nuclear physicist.
He was a man of impeccable credentials who would present the most credible evidence.
People could not challenge him on those bases.
They would have to say, UFO talk is crazy, but he's a guy with the evidence.
He'd say, well, you might say that, but I've got all of this here.
And you couldn't refute it.
He was a very powerful campaigner.
But I don't think even he would have expected where we're at in 2021.
No, no, he absolutely wouldn't have.
And I'll just say one more thing about Stanton.
He contacted me a couple of years, about a year or two before he died, and he said, hey, I saw you were on Larry King with Michael Shermer, who's a skeptic.
He was author of or publisher of Skeptic Magazines, one of these guys that they always smart guy and a nice enough guy.
He clearly hasn't done his homework on the UFO field.
But I said, oh, sure.
Yeah.
I went on there.
He said, do you remember what show it was?
I said, why?
What's going on, Stanton?
He said, oh, I'm going to be debating him.
And I said, oh, when you're going to be debating him next week?
He said, no, no, I'll be debating him in a year.
But he would spend a year preparing for one debate.
That's Stanton Friedman.
Okay.
Yeah.
And he would read every single thing that Michael Shermer had ever said on UFOs and have an argument countering that.
He would watch every TV appearance he's ever done, study every aspect of it.
That was the level of preparedness that Stanton Friedman did.
That was the level of dedication that that man gave to this field.
I mean, he was primarily responsible for uncovering the Roswell incident and a whole host of others.
But something seems to have given this a slalom-like momentum.
And I've been trying to work out in my head how we've got here.
Why now?
Why this?
I know we're in the middle of a pandemic and this kind of stuff takes bad headlines about disease off the front pages sometimes.
So maybe that plays into it somewhere.
But, you know, why this, why now is the big question.
Well, like I said, everything changed after the revelation of this secret Pentagon program.
And what shocked me was, is that the tapes that Christopher Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, and Lou Elizondo, who was director of the ATIP program at the Pentagon, walked out the evidence, the physical evidence shot from those military planes, coupled with radar and eyewitness testimony.
So there was visual confirmation for multiple pilots.
There was a cat and mouse chase with this thing, and then they had video of it as well.
So they had radar, they had visual, and they had photographic evidence, right?
So that's a pretty solid case.
People like to say, oh, UFO, the existence.
But then on top of that, the Pentagon admitted, I mean, the military admitted that these were legitimate films, even though they found a loophole and snuck them out of the, and they didn't exactly sneak them out, but they found a loophole.
Well, they kind of did.
They walked them out of the Pentagon, but they found a loophole and had them declassified without stating exactly what they were.
And then they walked them out in a briefcase and met in the parking lot at the Pentagon and then put them on the front page of the New York Times.
I can't overstate the significance of that event with Christopher Mellon and Lou Elizondo.
I really, I don't think I could hit that hard enough.
And everything kind of changed.
And then they admitted that those, I think it was like a year later, they admitted those were legitimate unknowns that were captured and all the pilots that were involved, one of them just recently, another one came forward on the Nimitz case, along with David Fraver, a female pilot who confirmed a visual confirmation as well.
So those things have never really happened before, right?
James Fox, another friend of this show, good to hear from him.
Now, Sean Cahill, we haven't spoken with him on the Unexplained Online before, and it is high time we did.
Sean served on board the USS Princeton when it and the USS Nimitz had an encounter with craft that you could only describe as being extremely odd, behaving in a way that did not appear to obey the laws of aeronautics that we understand.
Of course, we know all about the Tic-Tac UFO case.
We know about what happened in 2004, which is when this happened and what's happened in subsequent years.
And this was the incident that set us off on the path that the world is on now to possible who knows it disclosure.
So Sean Carhill is a very, very important man in this story because he was actually on board one of those ships, the USS Princeton.
So I'm delighted to have got a conversation with him.
And that is what you're about to hear now.
This is Sean Carhill in San Diego, USA.
You are in San Diego.
That is the home of the U.S. Navy.
So I'm guessing that you're your Navy guy through and through, yeah?
Yes, sir.
20 years.
I'm proudly served.
I was retired as a chief petty officer.
My rating was chief master-at-arms.
That's the security persons on the ship are the master-at-arms.
And so in most cases, I was the sheriff on board the ship.
And you ended up with a prestigious posting.
USS Princeton was quite an important ship.
Well, I would agree that all of our ships are equally important.
But yes, at the time, the USS Princeton was the, we called her shotgun for the USS Nimitz.
She was the, we would be in company with the Nimitz.
We were the air defense commander.
We were also what you would consider plane guard for her.
So we were always in company with the Nimitz.
So we were her number one.
Talk to me about your service up to then.
You said you were in total 20 years in the service.
So up to the point where this happened, what had you done?
Yeah, for the first four years I was in the Navy or so, I was on the island of Guam, which is pretty isolated in the Pacific Ocean, south of the Philippines and east of Japan.
I was serving at a submarine refit site there.
And then when I left that command, I went to law enforcement training in San Antonio, Texas.
That was where I met my wife.
And from that point on, we've been together and I was in anti-terrorism and law enforcement ever since.
I transferred to the USS Princeton, then on board, excuse me, the USS Constellation, then Naval Air Station North Island, the USS Princeton.
I worked for the Admiral that was in charge of the surface fleet for a few years with plans and policy.
And then I went back to sea with the Macon Island and the USS Peleliu.
All right.
So the point of my question about your service was it establishes the fact that you had seen and done a lot and you knew with all of that service and all of that experience, you know, you knew what you were seeing and you knew when something was unusual and when something wasn't, yeah?
Yes, sir.
That's a fact.
I was able to pick out just about every aircraft or surface combatant or even sub-submarine that you could think of.
We understood satellite movements.
We knew what balloons look like out to sea.
There's not much that gets past us after that amount of time at sea.
Which brings us to 2004 and the events that we now know about.
Because of the revelations a couple of years ago that appeared in the New York Times and then spread around the world like wildfire.
Talk to me about your experience of those events.
Yes, sir.
In 2004, as you said, I was stationed on board the USS Princeton as the Chief Master at Arms when Senior Chief Kevin Day began encountering anomalous contacts on the Aegis radar system.
Technicians and Senior Chief Day and all of the officers and chiefs on board the USS Princeton and USS Nimitz spent a few days really trying to track down whether or not these were real or whether they were ghost contacts in the system.
A great deal of time and effort went into it before we finally decided that these were solid and real objects that were operating in a very exotic fashion.
And we sortied fighter attack aircraft out to their vicinity where we were able to capture gun camera footage that corroborated the information that we were getting on the radar.
At that stage, did anybody think UAP UFO?
I think it crossed everyone's mind because the object wasn't operating like a conventional aircraft.
The reports that were coming in were that it didn't have any control surfaces.
We couldn't figure out its propulsion.
We were able to confirm those data points and the fact that it moved in a hypersonic fashion later on with the video.
Everybody tossed it around, but we were business as usual.
We were talking about contacts, air contacts, subsurface contacts.
UFOs would have never entered the conversation.
So there you are on maneuvers.
You've encountered these things as a group of people, as a group of ships.
You have a job to do, but you've got to deal with this.
Do you communicate back to Washington, back to the Pentagon, what you're experiencing?
Or as far as you know, is that all handled where you are at that time?
Well, in the military, we have a chain of command that runs from the very most junior person who just took his oath at boot camp all the way up to the chief of naval operations and the chairman or the Department of Defense.
But in between that, we have a means of reporting.
All of the proper reporting within our chain of command, up to what we call our type commander, was done properly.
A mishap report was submitted for the unusual contacts that we had encountered and the issues we'd had with the radar.
But beyond that, there was never any official feedback whatsoever that we were aware of, and there was never any follow-on investigation we were made aware of.
And among the crew, what were people saying?
You know, you were having these radar encounters.
This thing appeared to have no control surfaces.
As you say, it appeared to be moving in a way that no craft that maybe the guys on board had ever seen.
It was hypersonic, you later worked out.
What were people saying?
Well, at first, it was a very limited audience that got to see it.
If you didn't have a secret clearance or above, you wouldn't have seen the video unless someone had let you in to see it in an unauthorized fashion.
It was mostly the senior leadership that had seen it.
And I think most of us, to be frank, were probably guarding our careers more than we were guarding our, or more than we were looking to expand our minds, so to speak.
We talked about it.
Some of us excitedly.
But most of the folks just got back to work.
Right.
You said that you were guarding your careers.
That's an interesting turn of phrase, Sean.
So you realized that there was something big here, but also realize that your commitments to the service mean that you've got to get on with the job and keep quiet about it if you have to.
Well, that's a fact.
The keeping quiet part, honestly, is, in my case, is far more related to the stigma that surrounds the subject and that's grown up over the last 70 years than it is about a fear of any kind of NDA or secrecy.
I've never been asked to withhold anything that I felt the American public, or that was truth that the American public needed to know or that the world at large would know.
But as far as being thought of as a crackpot, that's something that's very prompt, very, it's a concern.
It's a concern to everyone.
That's one of the main reasons we're trying to change that conversation right now.
Okay.
So when is the decision made to go up and check what you're seeing on radar out?
Well, Senior Chief Day went up to our captain and said, sir, I believe that these are real contacts.
We have enough data.
Do we have, I'd like your permission to sortie some F-18s out there.
And the captain agreed with him.
And so that was when Commander David Fraver and his wingman pilot, Lieutenant Commander Dietrich, I believe, were sortied out there and made contact first with the Tic-Tac, where they observed this object shaped like a Tic-Tac, white, matte in color, moving in an erratic fashion around a large area of water the size of a 747 that seemed to be described as roiling, I believe.
We're not sure what that was in the water, but that was the first visual and video contact that was made with the object.
After that, Commander Fraver and his wingman returned to the Nimitz, and I believe that at that point, it was decided that another sortie would be sent out.
I can't remember the pilot's name who actually got the FLIRPod video data, but another sortie was sent out.
There may have been multiple.
I haven't memorized how many there were, but we finally captured FLIRPOD gun camera footage of it and returned.
I was on the bridge the night before they got that footage or the night after.
I'm not sure exactly when it was received, but I was out on the portside bridge wing.
Kevin was still directing me when I saw five to seven lights at approximately 45 degrees off the port bow at around 2,000 feet.
They were in a tight formation and they began moving towards the center of the formation in a counterclockwise fashion and began blinking out towards the center.
And when I say blinking out, they just disappeared.
There was no warping effect like we might think of from a science fiction movie.
After that, I turned to the lookout next to me and I said, did you see that?
And his mouth was open and his eyes were wide.
And he said, yes, Chief, I did.
And I shook my head.
I went inside.
Kevin wasn't on watch, so I didn't call him down in the Combat Information Center.
This wasn't exactly something that we were running.
We were in the middle of a training operation.
So this was something we were kind of doing peripherally on the side.
All right.
Here in the UK and around the world, we've heard what was released many years later, some of the intercom, some of the radio traffic with David Fraver, who's commented upon that later.
I mean, there is a good deal of excitement in the UK.
I guess we'd say you were all aghast by this.
But the general reception of what you saw and the general reception of what the pilots saw was, this is astonishing.
We don't know what that is.
That's a fact.
We were all, frankly, flabbergasted.
We had no idea what we were looking at.
And a great deal of conversation went back and forth between the operations officers on board Lieutenant Commander Teresa Elders and her compatriots on the Nimitz.
We're talking for days about the prosaic possibilities, whether it was temperature inversions or seagulls or mylar balloons or other things that could have created this.
And it was finally determined that this was a real object that was acting in a way that nothing in our arsenal was able to do.
And what was the captain telling you?
Well, the captain was taking our recommendations, as most captains do, and making decisions based on those recommendations.
But in the end, there was no feedback.
It was very nonchalant.
We had a operations and intelligence briefing that evening where I was actually asked to put myself at the front door and ensure that everyone who came in had a proper clearance for that night.
But at no point did that become an issue.
Our regular operations and intelligence briefing went off without a hitch with just a small graphic of an alien in a spaceship going across the screen.
A little laugh, and the captain said, well, we all had our fun the last few days.
It's time to get back to work.
And for you, was that your, this is a crazy question, but was this your first encounter with anything like this?
Looking back, I've had a lifetime of sightings and interesting interactions with what we tend to call the phenomenon.
But at that point, I didn't think of myself as someone who was interacting with it.
So this was the first time I had encountered something that was...
I thought that we had really hit the thing that was going to convince us that this was real.
And my chain of command's reaction and the fact that this was never reported and didn't make its way out really convinced me at the time that there was nothing interesting going on out there, that we were probably the only ones in the universe and this was an advanced defense project.
I'm completely convinced otherwise now because of my friendship and work with Luis Elizondo, but the former leader of ATIP, the reason most of us are here.
But at the time, I really thought that this was advanced military technology.
Now I know that we're nowhere near that even today.
And when you were off shift and thinking about this, as inevitably you must have done, the thought, what are we going to do about this, must have occurred to you.
You know, the thought that if there's a recurrence of this, if this intensifies, we're going to have to do something.
Were you thinking about that at all?
Actually, no, because I thought truly that the way that we reacted, it must have been our technology at the time.
And that actually, as an American service member and a chief petty officer in the middle of the war on terror, as we say, I felt actually really confident that possibly my military might possess that level of technology.
Now, it frightens the heck out of me to think that there's an unknown in my literal backyard, because that was 70 miles away from where I'm sitting right now, that controls the airspace with absolute impunity.
And I'm not interested in a threat narrative, but I am very interested in finding out what their intentions truly are.
But even if this stuff had come from Earth and was maybe possessed by the Chinese or the Russians, unlikely as that may seem to us now, you know, that's a fairly scary prospect, isn't it?
Oh, I agree.
That frightens me more than an unknown from the outside because it's pretty easy to guess human motives and greed in this situation.
After those contacts, the pilot's contacts, your contacts, what happened then?
Well, we got the copy of the video.
The next morning, I was in the chief petty officer's mess and I viewed the video with some of my brethren.
And, you know, we had the kinds of conversations you would expect.
We laughed.
Some of us were quite excited.
We thought that we had seen something otherworldly.
And then after that briefing, everything shut down.
I came home.
I told my wife about it.
I told some close friends what we had seen.
I had a follow-on conversation with a former security officer that I worked with who claimed that his wife was on the Nimitz And that she witnessed the shipboard security force guarding the pilots in their staterooms until some plainclothes investigators arrived on board the ship to debrief them.
I was never able to verify that beyond that.
But a number of years passed from 2004 until 2017 when Luis Elizondo resigned and he and Chris Mellon walked out on stage and the New York Times article came out.
And frankly, at that point, my entire world changed.
Okay, just to wind it, because we have to pick that up.
Just to wind it back, though, slightly, you talked about what happened to the video footage or what you thought happened to the video footage.
There were some reports, there have been reports, that some of the tapes, some of the material was taken away and has never been seen again.
Yes, the radar data from both ships was confiscated by an entity that, as far as I know, has not identified itself yet within the United States government.
I don't know if it was, there's speculation that it was the Air Force Office of Special Intelligence.
I'm not aware of a program like ATIP that was running at the time, or at least there's not one that's in the public eye.
So it still remains a mystery who took that data.
How do you feel that somebody would take the tapes away, and that would be the end of the matter as far as the people who were involved in the making of those tapes were concerned?
Well, the way that the military and the chain of command works, there's always a bigger fish.
There's always someone who has oversight over your equipment and your plans, your policies, and your actions.
And at the end of the day, even your intellectual property to a certain extent is owned by the United States Navy.
So I don't, I think a lot of us, you know, it worried us in the back of our head a little bit, not knowing who that was.
But at the same time, it's kind of business as usual for something like that to happen.
This was your encounter in 2004.
Subsequently, we now know there have been others very recently, 2015 and upwards of 2015.
When you hear about those things, what does that make you feel?
Well, it makes me feel like there's some patterns to be found there.
It does seem to keep occurring every time we upgrade our radar in those senses.
And I pretty much try to stick to the military cases that we've been talking about because we have so much more data on them.
But it would seem that we keep encountering something that keeps adjusting its technology to stay just outside our reach.
And recently we get the reports that former Navy Lieutenant Ryan Graves, he was talking with CBS.
He said that he encountered unusual objects flying above restricted airspace over Virginia Beach every day for almost two years.
So, as you say, there seems to be a pattern here and people are now starting to talk about it.
Yes, there certainly is.
Whatever these objects are, they're definitely interested in our military assets as well as our nuclear assets, and that's quite troubling.
There have been reports over the years that stem from the 60s and 70s of instances where these objects not only deactivated American nuclear arsenals, but may have activated Russian nuclear arsenals.
We're speaking about a technology here that seems to have complete control over even our most fearsome weapons.
And the question is, truly, what are their motives and who they are?
I've heard you say in a couple of interviews that you've done that your experience back in 04 and what you've known subsequently or what you've learned subsequently has changed, quotes, your worldview.
Talk to me about that.
Well, I think that as humans, we like to make binary choices.
We like to make simple, we like to come up with simple explanations for things.
And I don't think we're going to find a simple explanation.
A lot of people talk about this phenomenon as if it's a one-source issue.
And I think we're dealing with something that exists across a spectrum.
And we may be confusing and conflating things as one phenomena when we're seeing things that may either share a medium or share a level of physics or perception that we don't quite understand.
So for you, in the future going forward, you're talking about this now.
I know that you've done a lot of interviews this last week or so.
You've been on CNN.
It's been a real busy week for you.
What are you going to do about this?
Well, my wife and my children know that I've dedicated my life to what we call UAP truth activism.
I believe that the technology represented here and some of the philosophical and psychological extensions of this subject are coming at the right time for humanity, at a time when we need to expand our consciousness, open up our vision a little bit, and change the way that we operate as a collective.
I think there's a true possibility here for change for the human race, for us to open our minds and to open the horizons of what it means to be human.
And if I have the opportunity to be a part of that, I'm certainly willing to dedicate myself to that.
That sounds great.
But of course, first we've got to know what it is we're dealing with.
Yes, we do.
And I think that's going to take all of us.
We need a curriculum.
We need this to be in daylight, to be unclassified, and this needs to be out in the open for everyone.
And are you hopeful that's going to happen?
I'm quite hopeful that's going to happen.
Some of the things that we're working on behind the scenes have elevated this conversation to a completely different level, as evidenced by a lot of the attention we're getting lately.
But we've gotten attention at the highest levels of the United States government.
The United States Senate has ordered, excuse me, our Senate has ordered a 90-day report that's due in June.
They've formed a task force, the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force, that has been tasked with gathering all information that has ever been gathered on this subject.
Now, the question of what we'll get back will be interesting, but I think that we'll be able to determine what we did not receive and that we'll be able to certainly re-engage and get what we need based on that.
Does it strike you, Sean, and it strikes me as a little odd, that if in Roswell, bodies were seized and parts of an alien craft were taken away, I was interviewing Jacques Valet and Paola Harris last week, who I've known for a number of years.
And they have a new book, as you might know, coming out at the beginning of June about an incident that predated Roswell by two years and also involved a crashed craft and aliens, carcasses, bodies, whatever they may have been.
If the United States has this material, why are they now going through the Process of investigating things like you experienced.
You know, it seems to me that there are a couple of arms of government here and they seem to be behaving at variance in opposite directions.
Well, I think that even though our congressional and Great Britain's parliamentary processes are a little different, I think we can all understand the idea that a government bureaucracy ends up having stovepiping between its interior organizations, as well as long-term lifelong bureaucrats who end up feeling like they own certain pieces of this.
Excuse me.
I think what we're facing here is a mixture of both of those things.
I think that our fathers and our grandfathers weren't quite sure what to do with this, and so they put it away where they didn't have to look at it and gave it as little attention as they could.
I also think at the end of the day, no one wanted to take responsibility for it.
So there was never an overarching authority that could actually speak on it.
So I think we have to reinvent the wheel to a certain extent, but I do believe the data exists.
There's an old old saying that says, be careful what you wish for because you might get it and you may not like it when you do.
There is always the possibility that if we get to the bottom of this and we find out that there is some off-planet or other dimensional intelligence behind all of this, this intelligence may be much more powerful than us, which it has, of course, been demonstrating and may be a risk, a threat to us.
By opening this box, we may be giving ourselves a problem, don't you think?
Well, I believe that this phenomena, as we say, has been present for as long as we have.
As far as it being a threat, it certainly could be at any time that it wanted to.
That's why I'm more concerned about motives and equality.
I would like to see, if it's not, if the phenomenon itself is not going to self-identify and it's been here that long, then I would like to see an equality at least, an ability for us to defend ourselves against a day that this type of technology could be used against us.
I'm not a warmonger.
I would like peace for all of us.
That's the reason that I joined the military was to try to protect the people that I care about and love.
But at the same time, I did agree to protect them.
So I feel that there's still an obligation on my part to pay attention to that.
And Sean, the guys who are involved in all of this, like David Fraver and yourself, do you communicate with each other?
I presume you do.
Some of us do.
Most of the folks on the Princeton stay in contact with each other.
I think some of the pilots stay in contact with each other.
For most of us, Luis Elizondo is the hub of communications for us that binds us together.
I know Lou won't appreciate this always.
He thinks of us as an equal team, but for me, he's our squad leader, and I really look to him for a lot of courage and motivation.
What about the reports that some of these craft are able to function in the sky and also plunge into the water or even emerge from the water?
That's astonishing, isn't it?
Yes, what you're discussing here is one of the five observables called transmedium travel.
It's a very compelling and interesting way of travel.
We're talking about something that can enter and leave different mediums of different density without affecting those mediums and without seeming to be affected by inertia.
Right.
I think you've got a jet going over there, so I can tell it's a military area.
Yes, yes, yes, it is.
That's one of the F-18s we were talking about.
I remember that sound here.
I remember when I visited San Diego seeing those things and seeing the impressive sight of the aircraft carriers out in the Pacific.
Okay.
This is an exciting time.
A lot of people who are pro-disclosure are saying.
They're saying that we're very nearly, we're walking the final steps towards finding out the great truth.
And a survey only this last week or so, I think CBS did this one, suggests that more Americans than ever believe that we are not alone in this universe.
Do you share all of that excitement?
I do.
I don't have a clear-cut answer as to the origin of the phenomenon, but I think that whatever it's going to be, it's going to be surprising and spectacular.
I think we've reached a tipping point where we're willing to accept these things.
We've all seen a lot of change and nonsense in the last decade.
I think most of us are frankly ready for anything.
There are people that speculate that that's why this is coming out now and things like that.
As someone who's involved, there is no plan.
There is no infrastructure and there is no timeline.
We say within our organization, we're fighting a running gun battle because we're constantly moving and constantly trying to push past the stigma and get people to pay attention to this.
And if there is a superior intelligence, and if what you saw in 04 and what others have seen in later years is some kind of demonstration of their power, do you hope, now that you're a campaigner on these things, that perhaps they will help us solve some of the awful problems that we've got on this earth?
I mean, we're experiencing one now with the pandemic, but we've got problems of poverty and climate change and all kinds of things affecting us now that we arguably need assistance with.
Are you hoping that, you know, if they are out there, they will give us a bit of a hand?
Well, perhaps a bit.
I don't think it would be very skillful for us to think someone else can solve our problems.
As adults, I think if we're lucky, we realize our problems are our owns to be solved.
And I think as a species, we would notice and carry ourselves in the same manner.
However, if there is a way to help right some of the wrongs of the past, if their technology or their ways of thinking can enhance our existence and create a better quality of life for humanity, I'm all for that.
You said at the beginning of this that nobody has stopped you.
Nobody has tried to trammel your right to talk about these things.
But in history, we know that some people in the service have been actively discouraged from discussing what they've experienced, what they've seen.
They've been told there will be severe consequences for you, not only military people, civilians too.
There'll be consequences for you if you reveal what you know.
Are you surprised that you and people like David Fraver have had such freedom to discuss these matters?
Yes and no.
Yes, when I look at it through the lens of reports of other people, and I have to be very careful here because I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but the edges of our healthcare system and mental health do bump into the edges of this phenomenon and the people that experience.
It's something that's so profound that whether it causes aberrations in mental faculties or whether those were present first, I can't say.
But we have to be very careful what we're willing to say is true, just because many people have said it before and what we're going to accept as fact.
So there's a lot of people that I work with that feel that we're going to have to reinvent the wheel.
We're going to have to reprove a lot of these things to each other.
So yeah, that's a hard question.
So you've been out of the service for six years now.
Do you think these things that you experienced and others experienced are still happening today, 2021?
Do you think that crews of naval vessels, pilots of military aircraft are still experiencing these things?
I dare say that I know that that's happening from personal and semi-official reports that I've been privy to.
Yes, that may be occurring right now off the coast, 70 miles away.
And being in the public eye as you are now talking like this, people tend to come and talk to you.
Has anybody sort of official, perhaps somebody who has been ranking in the military or somebody who's been a politician, anybody contacted you and said, Sean, keep talking about this stuff because it's very important for us all and you're on the right track?
Yes.
From almost every level of government, military, and even, I guess you could say Hollywood, I have been contacted and been given just an incredible amount of encouragement to move forward and to continue what I'm doing.
It's quite overwhelming.
I can't take too long to stop and think about it, but I've had the chance to brief personnel on a level at the highest levels of our government.
And I continue to gain the trust and access to these areas that allow me to expand the conversation.
So I do that with as much transparency as possible.
And I report back via Twitter to the team that we have on there.
But every day, we are encouraged more and more to please continue what we're doing.
Do you think that Joe Biden will be the president who finally levels with the American people?
I think that if the right people are able to get the right information in front of the president, I think like a lot of us, he would be willing to change the way he thinks about it.
This is a hard subject for a lot of us, and it's a very steep learning curve.
So I'm very hopeful that we're going to be able to achieve that.
But if not, I do know that our Congress has made efforts to make sure that this is a permanent subject.
Sean, good luck from somebody who's been interested in these things all his professional life and a little time before that too.
Good luck in all that you do.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Howard.
Remarkable conversation.
Remarkable man, Sean Cahill from San Diego, California.
He was serving on board the USS Princeton when those events in 2004 happened.
And that is why his testimony is absolutely key to everything we are discussing now.
These are exciting times.
Please keep checking back at the website, theunexplained.tv, and please keep checking in with The Unexplained, whichever formats you receive it on, because I think we are going to hear some interesting things.
Of course, they may not happen in quite the way we expected, but there is no doubt about it.
We are living in interesting times.
More great guests in the pipeline here at the Home of The Unexplained, so until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been The Unexplained.
Please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm.
Above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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