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March 22, 2021 - The Unexplained - Howard Hughes
01:08:53
Edition 530 - Nick Pope & Nicole De Haas
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Across the UK, across continental North America and around the world on the internet, by webcast and by podcast, my name is Howard Hughes and this is The Unexplained.
Springtime is here.
I'm recording this at the back end of what has been a beautiful day.
And in all of this misery of lockdown that we've all endured, it's wonderful to think that we can emerge into springtime.
You know, there were times back there in the winter when I was so, you know this, and maybe you were too, I was so low.
I never thought at times that I would see another day like this.
So, you know, I'm giving thanks for that.
Thank you for all of your emails, by the way.
Please keep those coming.
Go to my website, theunexplained.tv.
Follow the link.
Send me an email from there.
If you'd like to make a donation to the online show, you can also do that through the website, theunexplained.tv.
And if you have donated to the work online, thank you so much for what you've done.
I'm very, very grateful.
It allows it to continue and allows me to continue.
Thank you to Adam, my webmaster, for his hard work.
Also, thank you to Haley for setting up the guests, including the main guest on this edition of the show, who is Nicole de Haas.
If you know that name, then you might have seen the recent Netflix series Surviving Death that featured Leslie Kane, among other people.
She is a physical medium, in fact, more than a physical medium, in the Netherlands, in Holland.
And I was quite struck by what she had to say.
She doesn't do a lot of interviews.
She is doing this one here.
So it is a controversial and fascinating subject.
Nicole de Haas is here.
But before I get into that, I just want to let you hear a little bit of Nick Pope from my radio show, Last Night, as I record this.
Now, this may develop as a story.
It broke a couple of days ago.
It's taken a couple of days to filter into the mainstream media.
But today, as I record this, it has got there.
And I spoke with Nick Pope in America about this last night.
You know, Nick Pope, former MOD UFO man and now independent investigator of these things.
The story is this.
Former director of national intelligence John Ratcliffe said that an upcoming government report will show more unidentified flying object sightings that are, quotes, difficult to explain, adding that he hoped to declassify the findings during his tenure in the Trump administration.
In an interview with Fox News, last Friday, Ratcliffe spoke about hoping to release information about the UFOs for the American people.
In December 2020, the then-President Trump signed a stimulus bill asking for federal agencies to publish a report on UFOs within 180 days.
Ratcliffe said he'd wanted to declassify that information prior to his and Trump's departure from the White House, but we weren't, quotes, able to get it down into an unclassified format that we could talk about quickly enough.
But essentially, when we talk about sightings, I'm quoting here, we're talking about objects that have been seen by Navy or Air Force pilots or have been picked up by satellite imagery that, quotes, frankly engage in actions that are difficult to explain.
A fascinating, highly reveratory thing that didn't get the instant international media coverage I thought it might.
So before we hear from Nicole De Haas, let's hear what Nick Pope had to say to me about this on my show on the radio last night.
His interview was with Fox News.
It was picked up, as you say, by Newsweek, by the Washington Examiner.
And bizarrely, I mean, maybe this is going to break tomorrow, but bizarrely, there hasn't been as much media coverage on this as I would have thought.
And it's huge.
It is a huge story.
Here is the former Director of National Intelligence in the United States.
So the U.S. government's senior intelligence official under Trump saying, I mean, firstly, that we knew there is a report on UFOs that Director of National Intelligence is writing up for the Senate Intelligence Committee.
We knew that.
But what he's done is he's doubled down on this.
And he said, look, usually we think these things might be weather phenomena and misidentifications, but we can't explain all of them.
And then he, even though this next bit was implicit, he actually was the first person to come out and say, this is a real bombshell, we're picking up these things via satellite, on satellite imagery.
So suddenly, it's not just people seeing things and relaying the story.
He's basically saying we, the U.S. government, have our sophisticated military satellites and these things are being tracked on them.
It's a massive story.
And it is astonishing, isn't it, that that happened in the US on Friday?
And yet the rest of mainstream media, and I'm talking about our media here in the UK principally, but also your media in the US that I also checked before I came on air, have not been all over that story.
It's odd.
I mean, I can understand it in the UK.
Maybe people don't necessarily understand what Director of National Intelligence is.
But I mean, you know, sort of think, you know, Britain, I mean, think United States primary spy chief, basically.
But it's odd.
It really is odd, as you say, that it hasn't even got more traction in the US.
As I say, maybe it's this.
It's not the first time, Howard.
It's quite interesting.
It's not the first time these huge UFO stories have broken late on a Friday evening.
And it's kind of like, it's almost like you need to give people the weekend to digest this and say, wait, did the US government's top intelligence official just say we're tracking UFOs on satellite?
Yes, he did.
So I don't know.
Maybe we're going to see some more on Monday morning.
Yeah.
And if I was writing a headline, and, you know, I used to do a certain amount of this stuff, you know, you could, as you say, break it down to ex-US spy chief says that some UFOs can't be explained, are really unexplained.
And then you follow it up with the phrase that we hope to tell.
The fascinating bit about this is, here's this man.
He gives this interview.
He says that, which is seismic.
That's a big thing to say, to say that these sightings are difficult to explain.
We've got trackings Of them, and then to say, and we're going to tell you more.
That is, if we can, that is massive.
Yes, and he obviously referenced this report that his successor, the new Director of National Intelligence, is drawing up as we speak.
And this has to be, Senate Intelligence Committee has asked for this.
Well, it's 180 days from the enactment of the COVID-19 relief bill.
So essentially, here's a bizarre thing.
It will actually come out pretty much on or around World UFO Day.
But that's another little interesting coincidence.
But what he also said, really interesting quote, he said, I had hoped to declassify this and release this, but we weren't able to get it done.
And we weren't able to get this down into an unclassified format that could have been released to the public by the time I left office.
So that was interesting.
And I tell you what, I don't know whether you had a chance to actually watch the interview on YouTube, but even the hard-boiled Fox newscaster, she was like, wait, did you just say what I think you just said?
She's stunned by it.
Well, and I can quite understand that.
I mean, there she is being given a silver-plated gift.
Is this a man trying to claim the credit for something that we are about to hear?
Well, I was wondering that.
I'm not sure about that.
I think it's a man who was maybe frustrated that he wanted to do it, but I don't know, the inertia in the system, the amount of highly classified, deeply compartmentalized programs on this, the special interests, maybe that was too much for even a fairly shoot-from-the-hip DNI like Ratcliffe to do.
So I don't know.
I mean, I guess we have to wait and see what his successor comes up with.
But yeah, I think it's a good question.
I think this makes it essential that his successor and the Biden administration that is now in train, this means effectively that this little bit of business from the Trump administration, they have to do something about now.
They can't leave this.
No, and I think you might have just hit the nail on the head there.
It might be a little bit of politics here and maybe trying to paint his successor into a corner somewhat and say, look, you know, I know this is a little bit of a poison chalice and I'm making sure that everyone knows about it.
And, you know, sort of paint her into a corner on it.
So we'll see.
But the clock's ticking for sure.
We've got to take some commercials quite soon.
But before we do, let's just finish this off by saying this.
There is a general feeling, and there has been for the whole of the last year, possibly a little longer than that, and you and I have discussed it many, many times before, that potentially something big may be in the works.
Do you think this is a curtain raiser for something big?
Yes, I think it is.
I think it is.
I mean, I think John Ratcliffe gave this interview on Friday.
Another former CIA director, John Brennan, gave a very provocative interview in mid-December, where he suddenly started dropping hints.
And I think the phrase he used about UFOs was we might be dealing with a completely different form of life.
So suddenly, after years of denial, when these people didn't even address the subject at all, or if they did, they really just gave the party line.
It's all weather balloons and aircraft lights.
Suddenly, they're all talking it up.
And that makes me think, yeah, they are setting the stage for something here.
And presumably if they set, and we've talked about this before too, if they're setting the stage for something, then whether it's Biden or whether it's Trump or whoever it is, there will be a plan that will be put into effect if they tell us something along the lines of we are not alone.
I think so.
I think they'll have to be.
And I know there's been a little bit of politics about this.
People have said, well, John Ratcliffe was Trump's director of national intelligence.
Sure, but Kamala Harris sat on the Senate Intelligence Committee before she was elected as vice president.
So look, this isn't a party political broadcast.
Republicans and Democrats alike are involved in this.
Nick Pope, and I'm sure by the time you hear this, there will be more information, maybe revelation coming out about those fascinating remarks.
Okay, the main guest on this edition, she featured in the series Surviving Death.
You may well be aware of her.
Nicole de Haas in the Netherlands is going to talk about her mediumship.
She's online to us now here at The Unexplained.
We'll be talking about the controversial subject of physical mediumship.
It's always fascinated me for many, many reasons, as you will hear.
Nicole de Haas, thank you very much for coming on my show.
How are you?
I'm doing well.
Thank you.
And thank you for giving me this opportunity.
Well, I think, Nicole, this is one of the most fascinating, but, you know, we can both agree, one of the most controversial subjects.
The idea, the concept of, you would say the reality of physical mediumship is something that some people find it hard to accept exists.
But those who practice it and those who've used it are in no doubt.
Would you say I'm right about that?
You know, there are two camps on this.
Yes, yes, I think you are very right about it.
And I already knew before also the documentary was made that it would be very difficult to place trans and physical mediumship in a good daylight.
You know, it's always difficult to get an understanding of something that is almost beyond comprehension.
So I totally understand the difficulty that people can have with it.
And always in my work, not only as a mental medium, but also as a trans and physical medium, I've always said and asked people to question, to investigate, and to use their common sense and to discern.
So I fully understand.
And this is not, unless I'm completely wrong, the golden age of physical mediumship, is it?
There are not as many physical mediums, people who say that they can make spirits appear, as there were maybe 50 years ago.
That's true.
That's true.
I think in the past, there was more of a need also for physical mediumship.
And especially when we look into the age of the world wars, that was a time where physical mediumship was much more common.
But also there were so many losses to the spirit world.
So there was a need for the spirit world also to come back and to manifest and to help people heal in a way.
One of the reasons also I think why physical mediumship is not very common at the moment is because people need a lot of patience and discipline as physical mediumship is developed in the home circle.
If we look back in history, you know, in the old days, what did people do in their spare times without having a television and internet?
They came together as friends or family, they sat around the fire, they sang hymns and talked together, and that was the ideal environment for the spirit world to develop physical mediumship, actually.
And that's something we don't do anymore.
You know, we are constantly in a hurry in this world and we are very much focused on the outer world instead of on our inner world.
That's interesting.
Do you think we miss a lot?
I think we do.
Yes, I think we do also.
Yes, definitely.
Definitely.
I think the challenge nowadays, you know, if we look at COVID, you know, over the past year, I think the world at the moment is going through a major shift.
And, you know, this is a time, I think, a powerful reminder of our common and shared humanity, but also it allows us to go back within and to connect back to the spirit world.
And I noticed that myself also in my own development.
Do you think that people during this period, and I don't think we have documented evidence yet about it, but do you think that more people are connecting with, if you believe that such a thing exists, I'm talking to my listener, if you believe that such a thing exists, more people in this period, because they have more time for contemplation, are actually being able to connect?
Yeah, I think also a shift there is going on.
I do feel that there is more awareness, more understanding happening at the moment.
And also over the past 20 to 30 years, I think mediumship in general was taken into the media more.
And I'm not saying always in a positive way, but at least it opened up some doors for people.
So they started questioning and investigating.
I think there are two sides to it.
And just expressing an opinion for a moment here, and please tell me what you think.
But I think there are two sides to that.
I think in the last 20, 30 years, the media has sometimes been misguided and aggressive in the way that they've covered these things.
But also on the other side, you have to admit that there are an awful lot of people who are either misguided and think they have mediumistic abilities or they're simply faking it.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
You know, and not always people are faking purposely.
I think a lot of people just don't have the right understanding and sometimes they are fooling themselves and not because they want to, just because they are not aware of what true mediumship is.
You know, in the world of mediumship, we often speak about psychics and mediums.
And I do believe that everyone is psychic.
And if we look at the word psychic, it's coming from the Greek word psuk, meaning soul, which means that we can connect from soul to soul.
And that's an ability that we all have.
We are born with that.
As a teacher, I can help people to experience the spirit world and to give them an experience where they can even communicate with the spirit world.
But that does not make someone a medium.
And that to me is a big difference.
A lot of people think they are mediums, but in fact, they are just communicating with this world and not the spirit world.
Okay, explain that then.
So they delude themselves into thinking that they're experiencing something external, when in fact what they're experiencing is not.
Well, actually, what I see happening a lot, and I'm not the only one, is that people, many mediums or people who call themselves a medium, they actually work only on the psychic level.
So what they do is they tune into the vibration or energy of the living people instead of the people in the spirit world.
But thinking sometimes that they are in touch with the spirit world and that the information is coming from the other realm.
That's a very interesting point.
And that is a point that was made to me many, many years ago when I met a man called Alan Gould, who you might be aware of in the United Kingdom.
He's one of our foremost investigators of these things.
I think Alan is now probably in his 80s.
He was at the University of Nottingham.
And if you're aware of him, that's one of the points that he made to me: that there are some people who are very good mind readers.
They can probe what is within the brain, and we don't fully understand consciousness.
They can access that, but they think they can access spirit, but they can't.
Yeah.
Well, I think we must not forget that true mediumship is not only about giving information.
True mediumship is a way of life.
It is a relationship that you build with the unseen world.
And it's about sharing the life on the other side in this world and bringing people back to life.
You know, it's people in the spirit world are living people.
There are perhaps even more alive than we are in this world.
And it's more of a reality than this world to me.
So I think it's a great responsibility also to realize that and to work with what I would call the power of life itself.
Okay, let's wind it back a little before we talk about the physical mediumship and the practicalities of what you do today.
I'm interested in you, Nicole De Haas, and your story, because from your biography, I got the impression that your start in all of this was not particularly easy.
You were not, when you were younger, in an environment that was conducive to helping you develop what you would call your talents.
Am I right about that or have I got that wrong?
No, you are very right.
I didn't grow up in an environment where I could express myself and live and experience my sensitivity.
When I was very young, I had a near-death experience.
And the interesting thing is that as soon as I got into the development of mediumship, all of those memories came back.
Actually, the first very vivid experience I had with the spirit world was when I was 11 years old and we moved to an old farmhouse and I met a girl from the spirit world.
She came into my bedroom and she told me her name and that she was buried in our garden.
And I told my parents at that time and they thought it was my imagination.
But a few months later they started to redo the garden and they hired some equipment and people to do it.
And they removed some large bushes and under the bushes they found the grave with the girl and the correct name.
What an astonishing story.
Was she a murder victim?
No, she was not.
It was a very old grave and I think even two or three hundred years old.
And at that time, in some cases, it was allowed for family to be buried on their own property.
Understood.
And how did she, when you were so young, how did she manifest herself to you?
How did she appear?
Well, I think, you know, I saw her as clearly as I can see anyone else here in this world.
But looking back, I think it was not a physical manifestation.
It was just my clairvoyance, experiencing her real.
Right.
So a kind of projection.
I've seen a ghost, and I'm certain it was a ghost once in my life.
Yeah.
And, you know, my listeners, I've told the story so many times, so I'm not going to bore them with the story, but it was a real three-dimensional physical presence of somebody who was dressed from the 1960s.
And as soon as I looked at him, he disappeared before my eyes.
He was as real as you would be if we were sitting in the same room.
And I don't actually think that he was physically there.
I think that something in the building in which I was at the time, and other people had seen him, I later discovered.
I didn't know it then.
Something projected itself into my mind.
So I actually experienced something that looked real, but it was a projection to me.
Yeah, but that's something different than connecting to someone in the spirit world directly, because we can separate the two.
You know, I can be in touch with the spirit world and see the spirit world through my clairvoyance, and they can be very real.
But also when you go to certain places, old buildings or places where lots of history happened, then what we call the echo of the emotion can create within our sensitivity a similar experience.
But then it's not the person, the living person in spirit communicating to us.
Then it's like a residue of energy that is manifesting at that moment.
So there are different levels here, and there are things that you clearly believe.
And it sounds like this is the case that people simply confuse.
But there is something different that you say you connect with.
What is the realm of spirit?
I suppose that ties into how you learned about it when you were young.
And also the big question of, you know, what happens when we die?
And how did you come to appreciate that?
Yeah.
Well, I know that I'm communicating with those who lived their lives here and have continued their lives in the next stage of life or the afterlife.
You know, I always say to people, the spirit world is not far away.
You know, it's not a different world.
We are as much in the spirit world as we will ever be.
We are spirit now in this physical life and we will be spirit when we go to the spirit world.
So we can't separate them, but in a way, in our mind, we do.
And often I say to people, you know, your loved one is only a thought away, because as soon as we think about the people that we love, they are there because it's so close.
When we go to the spirit world, we don't become instantly someone else.
We are just the same persons, you know, moving on the next stage of life.
And, you know, for instance, if there is someone here who did not live a very nice life on the earth and moves on to the next stage of life, you know, you don't instantly become an angel.
You have to work.
You know, it's a world of work.
It's a world of progression.
It's a world where we can continue what we are doing, basically.
Right.
So those people who think that all of our freeman, I mean, look, my life has not been as difficult as many people's lives, but I've sure had to pay my dues for everywhere that I've been, and it's been damned hard and continues to be hard.
So what you're saying is that when I cross over, whenever that time is, it's not automatically going to be relief for me?
Well, the spirit world, as I understand it, is also a state of mind.
So the more we do on this side of life, and then I'm speaking about self-development, spiritual development, progression, and getting an understanding of ourselves as ever-evolving human beings, that will define also how we enter the spirit world.
You know, for instance, my granddad, he did not believe at all in an afterlife.
He hated the church, you know, and when he crossed over, he was the first one who communicated through another medium to me and saying that he was wrong.
Wow.
And did he stay in touch or did he just want you to get that message?
Well, he stayed in touch for a while and then I haven't heard of him or felt him for a couple of years.
And quite recently, I was aware of him again.
Right.
And did he have a reason to communicate this time?
Yes, I think because some of the changes that are happening at the moment in my own life and development that he wanted to show his support.
Well, you know, that's a wonderful and comforting thing.
And I would like very much to believe, I mean, I was very close to my parents, Nicole, and I've talked about it on here.
I've been, you know, honest enough to talk about it quite candidly in the past.
So again, I won't go too deeply into that, but, you know, I was very close to my mom and my dad.
They supported me enormously.
And to think that they are still in some form around would be a wonderful thing.
I just wish that if they were around, they would make it a little bit more obvious to me.
Yeah, I often hear people saying this.
You know, it's all signs and symbols.
Yeah, you know, but we don't always expect it in the way we think it might appear.
We are not always open to their language.
And that's what I, as a medium, had to learn.
You know, it's easy to receive as a medium.
It's easy to receive for everyone.
Everyone can receive information from the spirit world.
But that doesn't make you a medium.
It's how you work with the information.
It's how you understand the language of spirit.
And sometimes, and especially, for instance, if you have someone in the family that was not very easy in sharing emotions, for instance, then most likely this person will let you know more through mind-to-mind communication, like a thought that suddenly comes up of someone that you didn't think of for a while, instead of through the emotions or senses.
So they will find a way to make their presence felt or known.
But sometimes we also say to ourselves, well, you know, I was just thinking about him or her.
And we take it as, you know, an actual thought, but it might be the spirit world influencing your mind.
Understood.
You said to me, and we didn't go into it, that you had a near-death experience.
Yes, I did.
What happened?
I was six months old and I literally stopped breathing.
So my mom was a nurse and fortunately, she knew exactly what to do to bring me back.
But my heart stopped and I just had no breath, nothing.
Okay, but six months old, you can't be aware.
A lot of people have near-death experiences in adulthood and they remember what happened.
You can't remember that, can you?
No, I could not remember and my mom never spoke really about it.
But it was not until I started developing my own mediumship that at some point I was meditating and I got all those visions of what happened in that moment.
And it was so real.
I could see myself from above.
I could see what I was wearing.
I could see where we were, what the environment looked like, everything.
And I checked with my mom and she said, well, you are correct in everything, but still I don't understand where you got that information from.
So it was like through my mediumship, I was able to connect to that vibration or to connect to that consciousness, collective consciousness, where perhaps our memories are stored.
I don't know, but this is what happened.
Do you believe that there is a place beyond here that is a better place that we access, we go to, maybe in near-death experiences, but maybe in actual death experiences?
You know, my own mother, and here's another story.
Sorry, my listener.
My own mother was very, very ill when she was 10 years of age.
She had like pneumonia, which was a killer when my mother was 10 years of age for kids.
They didn't have the treatments or drugs that they have now.
And certainly, if you didn't have money, you didn't get them.
So she had what they call a crisis.
And she was 10.
And she told this story all the way through her life, right up until, you know, very close to her death.
And none of us who knew her and loved her will ever forget the story.
She told a story of going to a place that was beautiful, that was full of greenery and gardens and sunshine.
And they basically told her that she had to come back and she didn't want to come back.
But of course, she came back and I'm here.
If she hadn't come back, I wouldn't be here.
So she had a reason to come back, my sister and I, and the rest of her life.
And they sent her back.
But she described very clearly a very beautiful place.
As far as you know, is that heaven?
Is that what we go on to?
Well, you know, if we take a look at all the experiences of all those people that have had near-death experiences, almost everyone tells the same.
So there must be a truth in it.
You know, all I can say, if I stay close to myself in my own experience, is that I did not see a different world.
What I did see were people from the spirit world close around me.
Like I was in a light, like they were in a light.
They were around me.
They were supporting me as I was observing myself in the crypt.
And at the same time, they supported me to go back.
So that's the experience that I had.
Everybody, I think, most people, if they're honest, are afraid of dying.
I am.
You know, as I get older, obviously, you think about how's that going to happen?
And, you know, I hope I'm not in terrible pain for a protracted period.
And I hope there is something beyond this.
Otherwise, you know, it's all going to seem fairly pointless.
As far as you are aware then, through the work that you've done, what happens when we leave here?
You know, how does that happen?
If we're in a situation of suffering, are we taken out of that just before the end?
Or do we go through terrible suffering and then access something else?
How does it work?
Well, from my understanding and from what the spirit world has taught me over the many years, it doesn't always look like it is shown to us in this physical world.
So for instance, if someone is very ill and in bed and suffering, or we see someone suffering, it does not mean necessarily that the person is suffering.
Because on a different level, on a soul level, different processes take place.
And I do believe that the spirit world is a world of love.
And I do know that they are around when our time is there to cross over.
So they will do everything that they possibly can to help us to make it as easy as possible.
So sometimes we see suffering on this side of life, but in some cases, the soul might already be leaving the body and not taking that much notice of the suffering that is taking place, if that makes sense.
Do you think people who are about to die, but people around them maybe don't know that, are on some level aware of it and come to terms with it?
I say this for a reason that in my own mother's case, and I've never told this story before, but my mother was in hospital.
She'd been quite ill, but they were telling us she was going to be okay.
And I had to drive back from a place called Southport, which is 250 miles away from London.
She was in hospital there.
I had to come back to work on the radio in London.
So I had what turned out to be my final conversation with my mum.
And it was a very unusual conversation.
We talked about things that we talked about together as a boy and a mum when I was three.
And we talked about those.
It was nice to recall those things.
And then she said to me, I mean, I was literally just coming back to London.
I was planning to come back to the hospital and see her again when she'd recovered a bit more.
You know, it was all, it wasn't routine.
It was a big operation she'd had, but nobody expected she would die.
But she said, this turned out to be our last conversation.
And she said to me, you and your, I mean, my sister, sibling, you know, sisters, brothers, and brothers and brothers and sisters and sisters, you can't all be the same.
So I've had my differences over the years with my sister, Beryl.
I think she would laugh and agree that we're family.
My mother looked at me and she said, you two have got to get on in future.
You know, it's important now.
And then her last words were, I love you.
And I walked down the ward and she said as loudly as she could at that time to me as I walked through the door, I love you.
Now, that was as perfect a last conversation as you could.
I'm sorry, it's quite, you know, I'm recalling it now, Nicole, but that was as perfect a final conversation as you could have.
And we believe as a family that on some level, maybe not consciously, my mother knew that she was about to die.
Yes.
The soul knows when it's time to leave this physical world.
And I think that sometimes, because I have experienced it also with family members that crossed over, that sometimes they are in a state of mind or state of awareness themselves already that they subconsciously pick up on that soul energy, soul vibration that tells them, you know, it's time to go home.
And, you know, while we're talking about these things, and this is on behalf of myself and an awful lot of people who are going to be listening to this, do you believe that we meet up with those close to us when we go?
In other words, I'm kind of hoping that the people waiting for me, when it's my turn, and it's not just blank, black oblivion, I'm kind of hoping that my relatives and my mum and dad and the other relatives I had from Liverpool who were so close to me, I'm kind of hoping they're going to be there.
Yeah, of course they are.
Of course they are.
You know, the spirit world is a world of love and love is that bridge that creates the connection.
So when someone passes in this world, it's a celebration in the world of spirit.
When someone is born into this physical world, it's a celebration in our life, but they lose someone.
So yes, of course they are waiting for you and they are there.
I have no doubt about it.
I've never ever met any person in the spirit world or here that I did in over thousands of contacts where they said, you know, my dad is probably not waiting for me because he might be reincarnated or he just isn't there.
Always they were there and always they showed their love.
I have no doubt about it.
Well, I wish I could say to people who know me when my time comes, I'll come back and tell them that everybody was there, but I'm not sure whether that's going to happen, but we'll see.
You should find yourself a medium then.
Let's talk about physical mediumship because you decided to go into and to do something that is, you know, that is the most controversial and the most difficult, I think, form of this.
Why did you go for physical mediumship?
Well, I don't think it was a choice, actually.
You know, I never thought of going into mediumship in general because I have a very analytical scientific background as a psychologist.
So I never thought of going into mediumship, but it happened and it unfolded.
And physical mediumship was far from my bed.
It was only that when I started my journey in trans development that suddenly physical phenomena around me started to happen and I didn't understand.
And it took me about two years to get in touch with physical medium David Thompson.
He lives in New Zealand now.
And I work with him on many occasions that he was able to explain to me what was happening.
And he said to me, you should sit for physical.
And until that time, I never thought of it as a possibility.
And I think the spirit world is clever, because if they would have told me, let's say 15 years ago, Nicole, you will sit in a cabinet in a dark room once at some point, strapped and gagged, do you honestly believe that I would be open to it?
No way.
I wouldn't.
So they play a clever game.
And when they see the ability, they also will bring it into your life step by step.
How do you define physical mediumship then?
What is it?
Yeah.
Well, physical mediumship is the process whereby a loved one in spirit or a spirit guide is able to physically manifest in our world, within our vibration, by using the capability of the medium.
So in mental mediumship, what we receive is all subjective, but in physical mediumship, more persons present in the seance room will hear, see or feel the same at the same time.
Also, the atmosphere in a seance is emotionally charged and an objective experience like this, in combination with experiencing that love being shared from the spirit world, makes it an experience that can be life-changing.
And some examples of physical mediumship are, for instance, direct voice, a materialization, a port and levitation.
And especially in the traditional or what we call the traditional way of physical mediumship is that for manifestation, the substance of ectoplasm is used.
And ectoplasm is a vital force.
It's an extension of the life force of the medium.
And the pancreas plays a part in the production of ectoplasm.
And we all have this vital energy.
But the physical medium is able to exude large amounts of ectoplasm so that the spirit world can work with this substance.
And that is what makes a physical medium unique.
Well, it looks in classic photographs that many people will have seen, like cotton wool or smoke or something like that.
And that's why they say physical mediumship has to be done as you do it.
I think in a darkened room, you know, with certain controls there.
But of course, historically, we know that that has also opened the door to an awful lot of people to fake it, you know, using Confederates, using assistants and people in the room appearing to, you know, pretending to be spirits.
That's the difficulty with it.
But you say that ectoplasm, this life force energy, actually exists and that you can manifest it?
Yes.
In my physical mediumship, I'm developing ectoplasmic-based.
And actually, you know, it's not a choice.
You can't say, you know, I'm going to develop this or that.
It's just that as physical mediums, we have the vibration of the spirit.
And physical mediums have a difference within their vibration.
It's a lot more stronger, more prominent.
So even if you don't wish to develop it and you have that strong vibration in your inner core being, it's there.
So it's part of the physical makeup of me as a physical medium, part of the spirit and physiology, part of who I am.
And, you know, I feel just lucky enough that I've been able to find it, to recognize it, and to have the right people on my journey to help me understand because they have walked the same pathway.
So again, that's not a choice.
It just happened to develop that way.
And I can understand the doubts when darkness is coming in.
And let me explain a little about this because when you look back in history and you look at all those pictures of ectoplasm being produced, you can see that those pictures are either taken with infrared cameras or taken with a dimmed or red light.
But people should understand that those mediums being exposed to a camera like that were very accomplished physical mediums already.
In the earliest stages, and this is for every physical medium who develops exoplasm-based, if we look at the natural law of life, all life is being created from darkness.
It's in nature where seeds are planted and the trees grow or plants grow.
It's the womb of the mother during pregnancy where the child grows.
The seance room is not different because the seance room is that sacred space where temporary life is being created.
An ectoplasm is very, very highly sensitive to light.
So it can be very dangerous to the physical medium.
And I have experienced it myself twice where I was exposed to a small amount of light and it caused burns.
So I was lucky in a way, but it even caused more serious injuries and even death with some of the physical mediums of the past.
Really?
I'd never read anything about that.
But I can tell you one thing, and we discussed this before we started recording.
I'm going to play you a little recording that I think you might be interested in.
When I was in my, well, I was a student, I made a documentary, mostly around Liverpool where I lived, and it was about mediums.
And I went to meet her.
I was told about a woman who'd been, actually, she'd been the deputy headmistress of the school my sister had gone to.
And she was Very well-spoken, highly educated, quite tough, no pushover.
But she was enormously interested in mediumship and particularly in physical mediumship.
Now, if you think that I went to meet her in the 1980s, she was talking to me about things that had happened in the Liverpool of the 1940s, possibly during wartime.
And she described to me the process of physical mediumship.
And she talked to me about what you said.
If people try to touch the medium, the ectoplasm will, quotes, flash back is what she said, thus causing injury to the medium.
And I have to say, for these last decades, I always thought that was part of the mystique.
And it was just a bit of folklore.
And it was to put investigators off the scent to stop them investigating.
But you say that there's a real danger if, you know, if light is allowed in or if somebody tries to touch the medium during this process, that the medium will be injured.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Let me play you the recording and you can tell me what you think.
This woman is called Lola McNaught.
And I doubt that she's still with us now because she would be well north of 100.
But she was a remarkable woman.
And I will never forget sitting in her living room and her telling me tales of a medium by the name of Mrs. French in the 1940s.
This runs about two minutes, so I'll play it now.
I had occasion to go and borrow a seat or something, and I was driving the car, and I thought to myself most intensely, now I've prepared that room.
I have a knowledge of everything in that room.
If we even get a voice, it's proof that it isn't laid on in an unfair way.
And we had a most marvellous sitting with this Mrs. French.
There were probably about 10 of us, and we had darkened the room so that there was no light in at all.
The trumpet was on a wooden board in the middle of the ring of people sitting around the small room.
You heard the trumpet moving on the wooden platter, and then gradually it rose.
I particularly remember my chair was in the fireplace, and on the mantelpiece above, there was a bowl of daisies.
This trumpet came up past me and encircled several of those daisy heads, and it would tap people's knee.
That was the time that I knew that there could be no wires, mechanism, magnetism, all the things that you could think of that might produce it.
It seemed as though Mrs. French or someone had raised their fists with a pocket handkerchief draped round it, like a little personality, but the size of a fist and a forearm and a handkerchief draped round it.
And at the same time, the voice from the trumpet gave a message, as though from this personality.
We saw that develop to a full-form little boy who purported to be my brother's son, who was stillborn.
The clothing was white and had a degree of phosphorescence.
This child walked around the circle and he took my hand, picked it up, and just put, as a child would do, each finger in his mouth.
He said, oh, Aunty Lola, I love those forget-me-nots that you put in the vase the other day.
Certainly, Mrs. French had no idea that we had put forget-me-nots in a bowl by her photograph on the mantelpiece.
Now, that child, I would say, must have seen that, to come and mention that.
I haven't told this story to many people because they just wouldn't believe it, and therefore I keep the things that people would believe.
Lola McNaught, a remarkable woman, no pushover in the 1940s, and a story that I was never fully able to rationalize over the years.
I wondered whether something had been just staged for her and she believed it.
Does that sound familiar to you?
Yes, it sounds very familiar to me.
And I have had many, many, many of those similar experiences, also sitting with other physical mediums, but also similar things happened in my own seance room.
And I think, you know, physical mediumship, there is no other form of mediumship that will bring you closer to the world of spirit than physical mediumship.
It turns you from believing into knowing.
The television documentary that I saw you on, the surviving death documentary, the one that featured Leslie Kane, that's been seen around the world and is one of the reasons why we're speaking now, filmed one of your sessions.
It was in a darkened room, and you took a whole variety of precautions before this thing actually happened.
I think you were actually strapped to the chair, weren't you?
Yeah, I was.
Why is that?
Two reasons.
First of all, because I want people to realize that I'm getting nowhere.
I'm just staying in my chair and I will remain there throughout the seance.
Second of all, because sometimes during the process of producing ectoplasm, I can have body spasms.
And so I feel more comfortable and safe when my arms are strapped.
Right.
Understood.
Are you aware of what you're producing when you produce it?
In other words, if you bring forward the spirit of maybe a relative of somebody who's in that session, I guess that's one of the most common cases.
Can you remember it afterwards?
No.
I'm now in a stage of development where I don't remember what takes place in the seance room.
And it's quite interesting because the first time when it happened, the first materialization we had actually was a cat.
And this is what often happens in the process of developing materialization mediumship.
It's easier for animals to materialize than for people.
It's easier for children to materialize than for adults.
And that's because, you know, they have Less of an obstacle to overcome somehow.
The first time we had a materialization of a person, I was ill for four days afterwards.
I was physically ill, I was emotionally drained, and I cried, and I just was not myself.
And this was the residue that I carried with me of that experience that happened.
When we look back into history, and some of the listeners might know the name Alec Harris, he was one of the greatest materializations mediums of all times from Wales.
The spirit world actually took him out of the seance room during the seance on occasions.
And sometimes the circle found him back in a different place or in the garden even.
And his spirit team explained that they did it that way because Alec otherwise would become so depressed and touched by everything that happened throughout the seance.
So on a subconscious level, I do know that there is this residue still with us because we are working with emotions on both sides of life.
My spirit team explained once that, well, the easiest way to describe it is that they said we take Nicole with us for a few moments.
So not literally to the spirit world, but they have such an influence and control on my physical body, but also my consciousness that I go into a catatonic state and I'm not aware of what is taking place.
But it wasn't like that in the earlier stages of development.
So it, you know, it progresses.
When you do this, do you allow video recordings of the actual sessions?
Well, we did it in the very early development.
We did use video and we did make pictures.
And that's also where I got burned.
So at some point, the spirit world told us not to do it anymore because there was more serious work to develop and they were referring to the materialization process.
And, you know, the health, my health to them and safety is paramount.
So if they will tell me in future, okay, you can introduce again, then I will, but not until they say so.
I'm sure you hear from skeptics from time to time and skeptics would say, I'm guessing they're probably the skeptics listening now.
If there are skeptics listening, I'm sure there will be, they will say, well, it's very convenient that you don't video the sessions because they're in, is there no proof?
Yeah, well, you know, the thing is, and I think this is important to understand.
I already said, you know, mediumship is always experimental.
It's all about having an experience.
I cannot demand the spirit world.
I cannot expect that everyone of my sitters is 100% convinced of my work and the results.
Doubts are part of it.
I know it from experience.
And I consider these doubts important in order to question the results and to further the development of mediumship and the connection with the spirit world.
So this is a process that needs continuous development of our human mind and ourselves as ever evolving human beings on a personal and spiritual level.
So such doubts exist in all fields of science.
I'm not a medium to convince people.
I don't want to convert people.
If in a seance room or on a platform, I can only touch one soul so that healing takes place, then my job is done.
I understand.
Okay, when you look back at the physical mediumship you've done, do any particular cases stand out to you?
Have any particular cases made a deep impression on you?
Yes, there's actually one that made a very deep impression on me, and that is also a case that even up to today helps me to keep going.
Because to be honest, there are many moments that I want to give up.
It's not an easy journey.
It's a very hard journey on the health, on the physical level.
It's a very hard journey, you know, having to deal with it in this world.
So there are moments that I want to give up.
But there is one situation that always reminds me of why I'm doing this.
And that was actually the materialization of a little girl.
And she materialized in a seance room at the Swannenhof.
And she came for her father and sister in the seance room.
They were Americans.
And she walked towards them.
And she played with her sister's hair.
And she was playing with her dad's hands.
And they were allowed to touch her.
Did you know anything of their story before they came to you?
No, I did not.
And there have been many occasions where things like this happened, where, you know, of course, I wasn't aware of what was taking place.
And I think it is important that we know as less as possible, because otherwise, you know, the mind gets in the way and we don't want that.
It is the same.
And this is what I need to mention also.
In the documentary, in the third episode, I did a trans demonstration in the US.
And the family who was there, they expressed their doubts.
But what was not shared, and I think that is a loss for mediumship, actually, is that except from the people from Holland that I knew and Mike and Leslie, I did not know the family.
I haven't met them before.
And even one person who received a contact from Tommy came unexpectedly.
He was not on the list.
And I remember when Leslie opened the door that she said, oh, who is this man?
And she asked the crew about it.
So, You know, it would have put things like that perhaps in a different daylight if that part of the story was also shared.
But, you know, they chose not to do it.
And, you know, that's fine with me.
But the American family and the girl that actually was able to touch from the other side to this living side was able to touch in the way that family members would.
I mean, clearly they were convinced.
You wouldn't be telling me the story that they unless they were.
They were absolutely convinced and it was one of the most life-changing experiences for them.
It is a difficult thing to talk about because most people haven't seen it.
A lot of people don't want to see it.
Many people like me are curious.
If, as a journalist, if I wanted to come to a session, one we're not allowed to travel or do anything or go anywhere these days, but one day, hopefully, we'll be able to.
If I wanted to come, not necessarily with recording equipment, but if I wanted to come to a session where you were doing this, bearing in mind you know me and you know what I do, would you have somebody like me in a session?
Of course.
Because there is no guarantee that someone for you will come through.
But even if it's, you know, even if it isn't for me, if it's not my parents or something like that, if there are other people there and something appears from them, then I'll be there and surely I will see it.
Of course.
Of course.
You know, if a physical manifestation takes place, one of the things that the spirit world does in my mediumship, you know, they are further developing the materialization process at the moment.
That's why in October 2019, so after the Netflix series, the spirit world asked me to withdraw back into the home circle for the time being to further perfect the materialization process.
And that can only take place in a seance room with your own home circle.
So we do have independent direct voice.
The spirit world speaks independent from me.
This is what everybody hears in the room.
When I'm gagged and they hear a voice from a different corner in the room, then everybody will hear this.
But their job now is to, or they hopefully will be able to develop this, is to bring the voice within the materialization.
And I do see a future, and this happened once in my seance, I do see a future that the spirit world is hoping to bring light within the ectoplasm so that we don't need external light from this world, but that they are able to bring light within the ectoplasm.
And they managed once.
So if they can do it once, they can do it more.
So not only are you developing with this, but the other side is clearly developing with this.
It seems a very complicated process to go through, to communicate and to materialize spirits.
Why do you think it's so difficult?
It takes a lot of work on the spirit side of life.
It takes a lot of work, dedication, time, patience on this side of life.
Not many people have the dedication and time to sit every week at the same time, week after week, month after month, year after year for the spirit world to, and especially not for a physical medium and not even sitting for your own development, in the hope that the spirit world will at some point make their presence felt and heard.
That process in itself might take easily 10 to 20 years.
Right.
So you've got to be in it for the long haul.
And as you said to me, you could have had another career.
You could have done something else.
But you chose to do this.
Yeah.
Why is that?
Because this is how my soul needs to express itself in this world.
And this is, you know, if I said in the beginning, because you asked me or you mentioned that I had a choice and I said to you, well, in a way, I don't have a choice.
I didn't choose physical mediumship, but I did say yes.
And I opened the door to spirit and they brought it on my pathway.
Can you imagine that if I am able to further develop something so rare nowadays that it is impossible for me to say no to the spirit world?
I can't.
I can't.
I have that responsibility and I feel this is what I need to do to bring both worlds together.
And I know I pay a price for it.
I know I have to make sacrifices and I do that with all my love and my energy.
What price, Nicole, do you think you pay for it?
Is that in some people not understanding?
Is that the price?
Well, if we take a look, and I'm not speaking about direct voice mediumship or other physical phenomena now, but if we look at materialization mediumship, in the past, many materialization mediums did not become very old.
It's a restraint on the body.
It can cause all kinds of health issues on the long haul.
So, you know, this is a price you pay.
You know, I might easily give in 10 years of my life.
And that's the contract I signed with Spirit.
Right.
Well, we all have to do the things that we have to do.
That's why I'm doing this.
And so that's why I respect that you've decided to do this because that's where your heart takes you.
One of the questions I wanted to ask you just as we come to the end of this, Nicole, is do you work with academic researchers, scientists?
Yes, I did work with a large hospital in 2017 in Holland, and they were interested in EEG measurements, But that was done at that time with a clinical EEG.
Also, I was part of an experiment at the Arthur Findley College in 2018 with Professor Chris Rowe.
He is also in the Netflix series.
Isn't he from the Society of Psychical Research in the UK?
Yes, yes, and from the University of Northampton.
Yes, and I worked several times on courses at the AFC where science and spirituality were brought together.
At the moment, I'm involved in a research together with Stuart Alexander and David Thompson in a research of Suzanne Temple.
She's from Holland and she uses an EEG method to investigate states of consciousness.
She shares also some information about her work on Leslie Kane's website.
And Suzanne works together and shares her results with a small team of academics.
And one of them is Associate Professor Reinald of the Department of Mathematics and Statistics at Albany State University in New York.
Also, an interest recently is expressed in my physical mediumship by a professor at the Division of Perceptual Studies at the University of Virginia.
And he planned to join me on my trans and physical week about a year ago, but then COVID came and we had to reschedule.
So he will probably come by the end of this year.
I know the spirit world and my spirit team wishes to bring mediumship and science together.
And I think a bridge can be built there, but at the same time, the spirit world is very protective of my mediumship and they are careful whom they wish to work with.
And I remember Silvercloud, one of my spirit friends, he once said, where science meets spirit, evolution of the mind takes place.
Where spirit meets science, there is evolvement of the soul.
We need to listen to the spirit world.
We can't demand or dictate the unseen world.
But what I do feel is that in companionship and cooperation with the spirit world, new ways of science that we have access to nowadays will have more prominent place in the way forward for mediumship.
Well, isn't that a fascinating thought that these fields that people used to think were disparate and separate could one day coalesce?
That's a great thought to leave this conversation on.
Is there anything that I haven't asked you that I should have?
No, I think we covered quite a bit.
We did, didn't we?
And you were very kind to allow me to cover all of that ground.
You know, I realize that, you know, quite often people who do what you do have reason to be wary of, quotes, the media.
I never think of myself as the media, really, but, you know, because sometimes the media doesn't really understand.
My listener will make his or her own decision, of course, and let me know accordingly.
But I would be very interested to actually come and see you at work one day when that is possible again.
Who knows when that will be.
You are very welcome.
Nicole DeHaas, thank you very much indeed for speaking with me.
Thank you, Hauer.
Thank you.
Nicole De Haas, fascinating guest.
Your thoughts?
Welcome.
Please go to my website, theunexplained.tv, and let me know what you think.
Follow the link, send me an email from there.
And when you do email, tell me who you are, where you are, and how you use this show.
I love to hear from you.
And thank you for all of your emails recently.
And also Nick Pope before that about that enormous story to do with UFOs that I think we'll hear a great deal more about.
But I was pleased to be the first person to talk about it on broadcast radio in the United Kingdom last night as I record these words.
More great guests in the pipeline here at the online home of the unexplained.
So until next we meet, my name is Howard Hughes.
This has been the Unexplained Online.
And please, whatever you do, stay safe, stay calm, and above all, please stay in touch.
Thank you very much.
Take care.
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